From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 25 02:49:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA25276 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 02:49:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from grumble.grondar.za (root@grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA25271 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 02:49:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from grumble.grondar.za (mark@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA00452 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 12:49:01 +0200 (SAT) Message-Id: <199602251049.MAA00452@grumble.grondar.za> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: To all the scanner boffins - please help! Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 12:49:00 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi people, I have very recently got use of a Genius GeniScan (tm) hand scanner. The model number is GS-C105. Do any of you have any experience of this with FreeBSD? I tried using both the gsc and the asc drivers with no luck, and was wondering if anyone had any private code or work-in-progress for this thing. Thanks! M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grondar.za for PGP key From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 25 02:50:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA25357 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 02:50:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA25352 Sun, 25 Feb 1996 02:50:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) id CAA10670; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 02:50:42 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602251050.CAA10670@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: wierd scsi error message To: hsu@freefall.freebsd.org (Jeffrey Hsu) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 02:50:42 -0800 (PST) From: "JULIAN Elischer" Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602242300.PAA25652@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Jeffrey Hsu" at Feb 24, 96 03:00:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > Okay, now that I know what the message means, the $24,000 question is how > do I identify the file for which this write failed? > > Feb 24 02:24:15 armour /kernel: sd0(uha0:0:0): Deferred Error: HARDWARE FAILURE > info:327900 asc:3,0 Peripheral device write fault field replaceable unit: 11 sks:80,19 > > The error occured during an operation for which a successful status had already been returned to the driver.. I would guess that this was a write-behind operation and that teh write could not succeed. Asa guess the AWRE (or whatever it is) bit was not set in hte drive config, otherwise it should have silently remapped the bad block. (unless it wasn't a media error). Probably the info field contains the block number that was being written (in absolute numbers). I don't know the base off hand (16 or 10) I guess 10. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 25 03:49:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA27107 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 03:49:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA27097 Sun, 25 Feb 1996 03:48:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id HAA28140; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 07:00:20 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199602251200.HAA28140@hda.com> Subject: Re: wierd scsi error message To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 07:00:19 -0500 (EST) Cc: hsu@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602250046.LAA28298@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Feb 25, 96 11:16:49 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Jeffrey Hsu stands accused of saying: > > > > Okay, now that I know what the message means, the $24,000 question is how > > do I identify the file for which this write failed? > > > > Feb 24 02:24:15 armour /kernel: sd0(uha0:0:0): Deferred Error: HARDWARE FAILURE > > info:327900 asc:3,0 Peripheral device write fault field replaceable unit: 11 sks:80,19 > > The general procedure looks like this : > > - obtain the SCSI-2 spec. (gatekeeper.dec.com has a copy somewhere) > - Find out what the 'deferred error' message looks like > - look at, and maybe modify the code to emit the block number (if one is > part of the message) Hi - I'm back. Sorry I missed the start of this thread. The appropriate section of the SCSI-II spec is "7.2.14.2 Deferred Errors". This deferred error is particularly nasty in that it is an error returned for "a previous command for which GOOD status has already been returned", that is, the disk lied and told us it had successfully finished a write and now we find out it did not. This could happen when the disk transferred the block to its cache, said it was done, and then failed the transfer from the cache to the disk, maybe because it has a bad cache area (or whatever FRU 11 is). In this case I suggest turning off the write cache to test to see if the error goes away. This is the WCE field in page 8. There is an interesting implementors note indicating that you want to use synchronizing commands (I assume they mean "synchronize cache") to ensure the data is actually transferred to disk at certain places in the driver. I suppose this has to play with the FS code. The "info" field should be the block number in error for a disk. Does that make sense? Can you tickle the raw device to generate the error? Does it follow the block number? -- Peter Dufault Real-Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 25 03:53:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA27344 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 03:53:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA27338 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 03:53:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id HAA28152 for hackers@freefall.freebsd.org; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 07:05:19 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199602251205.HAA28152@hda.com> Subject: Re: wierd scsi error message To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 07:05:19 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <199602251050.CAA10670@ref.tfs.com> from "JULIAN Elischer" at Feb 25, 96 02:50:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > The error occured during an operation for which a successful > status had already been returned to the driver.. I would guess that > this was a write-behind operation and that teh write could not succeed. > Asa guess the AWRE (or whatever it is) bit was not set in hte drive > config, otherwise it should have silently remapped the bad block. > (unless it wasn't a media error). This would be a poor setup for the disk - write caching enabled and write reallocation disabled. We can add to our 2001 things to tweak in the scsi code: sanity checking the disk setup. A flag to scsi(8) could be added for use during the install. -- Peter Dufault Real-Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 25 04:01:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA27662 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 04:01:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateway.net.hk (john@gateway.hk.linkage.net [202.76.7.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA27655 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 04:01:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from john@localhost) by gateway.net.hk (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA29973; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 19:59:43 +0800 Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 19:59:43 +0800 (HKT) From: John Beukema To: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Alpha port Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I see Microway advertising its 300Mhz DEC Alpha 21164 motherboard running DEC Unix and Linux. A while back I remember some talk about porting FBSD to this platform. What ever became of that effort? jbeukema From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 25 09:41:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA08072 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 09:41:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA08065 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 09:41:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id SAA22733 ; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 18:41:16 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id SAA24961 ; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 18:41:15 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.3/keltia-uucp-2.7) id JAA02190; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 09:19:27 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199602250819.JAA02190@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: mail routing and duplicates To: jmb@freefall.freebsd.org (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 09:19:27 +0100 (MET) Cc: nate@sri.MT.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602250030.QAA29252@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at "Feb 24, 96 04:30:09 pm" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1688 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL7 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Jonathan M. Bresler said: > archie at rutgers.edu did not fnd qmail for me, unless you mean > qmailtlx.arc ??? nah.... ftp://koobera.math.uic.edu/pub/software/qmail-0.72.shar.gz > that's 3.3 kB/s thru the smtp8 mailer average over nearly two weeks > now mail flow is not uniformly distributed over the day, but rather has > peaks and slack time. > > dats a WOT ah mail! And the machine does not seem that loaded sometimes even with 20 or more sendmail... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #1: Tue Feb 20 01:16:51 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 25 11:59:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA15183 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 11:59:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (ki1.Chemie.FU-Berlin.DE [160.45.24.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA15175 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 11:58:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (Smail3.1.28.1) from mail.hanse.de (193.174.9.9) with smtp id ; Sun, 25 Feb 96 20:58 MET Received: from wavehh.UUCP by mail.hanse.de with UUCP for se@ZPR.Uni-Koeln.DE id ; Sun, 25 Feb 96 20:58 MET Received: by wavehh.hanse.de (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24996; Sun, 25 Feb 96 14:39:36 +0100 Date: Sun, 25 Feb 96 14:39:36 +0100 From: cracauer@wavehh.hanse.de (Martin Cracauer) Message-Id: <9602251339.AA24996@wavehh.hanse.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: se@ZPR.Uni-Koeln.DE Subject: Re: Disk perf. with different HDs/Adapt. Newsgroups: hanse-ml.freebsd.hackers References: <199602232004.AA07830@Sysiphos> Reply-To: cracauer@wavehh.hanse.de Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk se@ZPR.Uni-Koeln.DE (Stefan Esser) wrote: >On Feb 23, 14:26, Rashid Karimov wrote: >} Subject: Disk perf. with different HDs/Adapt. >} 13107200 bytes transferred in 2 secs (6553600 bytes/sec) >If you report 'dd' numbers, then **please** add at least 'time' info ... >E.g.: ># time dd if=/dev/rsd0a of=/dev/null count=200 bs=64k >13107200 bytes transferred in 2 secs (6553600 bytes/sec) > 1.92 real 0.01 user 0.05 sys I think /dev/null should not be used for benchmarks. I've seen systems where it makes a substantial difference whether the data was read and just not used or where the data was sent to /dev/null because the benchmark program couldn't just discard it. Additionally, as Stefan points of, the performance numbers of dd are quite useless anyway. I suggest using the 'bonnie' benchmark, which has a nice multi-processes seek benchmark as well and does precise timing. bonnie works on filesystems only, no raw devices. But I think the filesystem numbers are more useful anyway. >} P6-200 ASUS( hate it!) with RAID array ( all in HW no >} special drivers reqd) - only 3Mb/sec ! >Well, RAID doesn't seem the way to go, if you are looking >for top performance ... Were the drives synchronized and >was a reasonable write buffer in the controller ? That's my impression, too. I didn't see any real fast *and* system-independet RAID solutions so far. >How does CCD compare ? >It was quite good according to the last values I saw ... I tested on NetBSD with two NCR Controllers and four Quantum 540 MB drives. The ccd driver turned those old junk hardisks into one 2 GB drive with max 8 MB/sec write and 7.5 MB read out of a standard BSD filesystem (but I didn't find one single configuration where both of these top numbers were possible...). One individual drive had 3.5 MB/sec. The benchmark was bonnie, that means the test is reading one large file sequentially in chunks of 8 KB. Surprisingly, it wasn't too difficult to find good value for the disk geometry. Good performance even occured when using a 64 Head/32 sectors lazy-admin scheme. These software stringing solutions with standard harddisks/controller seem to be a good way. I've seens amazing numbers from HP 7000 workstation as well (years ago) and you don't need any special hardware. My impression is that most RAID solutions are not fast and will never be because most users don't run any benchmarks on them... Martin -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Martin Cracauer - Fax +49 40 522 85 36 BSD User Group Hamburg, Germany - No NeXTMail anymore, please. Copyright 1995. Redistribution via Microsoft Network is prohibited From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 25 13:24:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA20762 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 13:24:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from public.wintek.com (public.wintek.com [199.233.104.88]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA20723 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 13:24:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from watson.grauel.com (watson.grauel.com [199.233.104.36]) by public.wintek.com (8.6.12/1.19wintek(3.6davy)) with ESMTP id QAA29609; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 16:24:00 -0500 Received: (from rjk@localhost) by watson.grauel.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA04099; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 16:30:40 -0500 Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 16:30:40 -0500 Message-Id: <199602252130.QAA04099@watson.grauel.com> From: Richard J Kuhns To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Either an xcdplayer or matcd problem... Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Using xcdplayer to listen to CDs via the matcd driver: If I use ``-device /dev/matcd0c'', when I press the eject button after a CD finishes I get repeated "Device not configured" errors until I either terminate xcdplayer or put a new cd in. If I use ``-device /dev/rmatcd0c'', I get repeated "ioctl(cdromreadtochdr): : Input/output error" errors. Is this a bug in xcdplayer or in the matcd driver? It doesn't keep me from listening to my CDs; it's just annoying to have these messages pop up when I just want to change the CD. Thanks for your time... -- Rich Kuhns rjk@grauel.com PO Box 6249 100 Sawmill Road Lafayette, IN 47903 (317)477-6000 x319 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 25 13:57:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA23212 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 13:57:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from pancake.remcomp.fr (root@pancake.remcomp.fr [194.51.30.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA23171 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 13:57:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from aida (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aida (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA00548 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 22:52:41 +0100 Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 22:52:41 +0100 (MET) From: didier@aida.org To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: strange keyboard behavior. (X11) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk hi I've recently replaced my US keyboard by a french one. since then I'm unable to type use the following keys: ~#{[|`\^@]} these keys are a combination of ALT and a key of the 1234... line. xmodmap does not seems to do anything. xkeycaps does not help either. thanks for your help, -- Didier Derny | Microsoft Free Computer. | 486DX4-120 AL3 chipset didier@aida.org | Private FreeBSD 2.1-STABLE site. | aha2940 / 1Gb HAWK From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 25 14:03:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA23545 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 14:03:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA23536 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 14:03:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA00298; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 14:57:15 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602252157.OAA00298@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Alpha port To: john@gateway.net.hk (John Beukema) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 14:57:15 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "John Beukema" at Feb 25, 96 07:59:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I see Microway advertising its 300Mhz DEC Alpha 21164 motherboard > running DEC Unix and Linux. A while back I remember some talk about > porting FBSD to this platform. What ever became of that effort? Jeffrey Hsu and I were required to send our loaner hardware back. We had a running NetBSD system, and I was abstracting the clock code; it seems that the FreeBSD console code relies on timers that have to be detected. I wanted to blackbox the kernel pieces so that a chip detect could result in multiple devices being exported as a single monolithic unit. I still have my SCSI HD with all the code on it. I sent email asking about purchasing replacement hardware, but didn't get a response from the company. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 25 15:11:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA27186 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 15:11:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from julian@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA27178 for hackers; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 15:11:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 15:11:02 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199602252311.PAA27178@freefall.freebsd.org> To: hackers Subject: anyone know how to get X11 forwarding on ssh? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I'm trying to do this to a BSDI box but it steadfastly refuses to set the DISPLAY variable at the far end, (despite what teh man page says) julian. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 25 18:39:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA13321 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 18:39:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from fw.ast.com (fw.ast.com [165.164.6.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA13316 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 18:39:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from nemesis by fw.ast.com with uucp (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0tqslB-00084cC; Sun, 25 Feb 96 20:33 CST Received: by nemesis.lonestar.org (Smail3.1.27.1 #20) id m0tqsKn-000C9QC; Sun, 25 Feb 96 20:06 WET Message-Id: Date: Sun, 25 Feb 96 20:06 WET To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Sent: Sun Feb 25 1996, 20:06:40 CST Subject: Either an xcdplayer or matcd problem... Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [0]Using xcdplayer to listen to CDs via the matcd driver: [0] [0]If I use ``-device /dev/matcd0c'', when I press the eject button after a CD [0]finishes I get repeated "Device not configured" errors until I either [0]terminate xcdplayer or put a new cd in. If I use ``-device [0]/dev/rmatcd0c'', I get repeated "ioctl(cdromreadtochdr): : Input/output [0]error" errors. [0] [0]Is this a bug in xcdplayer or in the matcd driver? It doesn't keep me from [0]listening to my CDs; it's just annoying to have these messages pop up when [0]I just want to change the CD. You didn't mention what version of the system, but I am assuming 2.1R. There are a couple of problems: 1. Use /dev/rmatcd0a, not /dev/matcd0c. Partition "c" is used only for reading raw 2352-byte blocks. Unless you want the digital data from an audio CD, this device isn't particularly useful. 2. xcdplayer continues to poll the device in question for status, and if you eject the media, it continues looking to see if the drive is ready yet. Why xdcplayer gets mad that it receives an error here is beyond me, since it just put the drive in an error condition. If you use the raw device, the matcd driver will allow the open to appear to succeed even with the media absent, tray open, etc, and selected ioctls can be performed performed (like the close-the-tray ioctl). The non-raw device is strict about allowing access to the media if the the drive wasn't ready. Using rmatcd0a with xcdplayer works for me (in 2.1R anyway). Frank Durda IV |"The Knights who say "LETNi" or uhclem%nemesis@rwsystr.nkn.net | demand... A SEGMENT REGISTER!!!" |"A what?" or ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem |"LETNi! LETNi! LETNi!" - 1983 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 25 18:40:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA13486 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 18:40:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from fw.ast.com (fw.ast.com [165.164.6.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA13481 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 18:40:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from nemesis by fw.ast.com with uucp (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0tqslC-00084fC; Sun, 25 Feb 96 20:33 CST Received: by nemesis.lonestar.org (Smail3.1.27.1 #20) id m0tqsA6-000C0sC; Sun, 25 Feb 96 19:55 WET Message-Id: Date: Sun, 25 Feb 96 19:55 WET To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, netbsd-help@NetBSD.ORG, bsdi-users@BSDI.COM From: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Sent: Sun Feb 25 1996, 19:55:38 CST Subject: Re: Multisession CD-R Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: [1]If I remember correctly, he also read audio format CD's as data, so [1]you could eliminate the DAAD conversion. FYI, reading the redbook data is already allowed by some of the CD-ROM drives, such as the matcd driver. Just use the /dev/matcd0c to get the raw 2352 byte blocks from any CD. Frank Durda IV |"What are we going to do tonite?" or uhclem%nemesis@rwsystr.nkn.net |"The same thing we do every | night: Try to annoy Microsoft!" or ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem | - Gatesy and the Brain From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 25 19:16:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA14846 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 19:16:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA14839 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 19:16:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA01084; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 22:16:29 -0500 Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 22:16:29 -0500 From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199602260316.WAA01084@crh.cl.msu.edu> To: julian@freefall.freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: anyone know how to get X11 forwarding on ssh? Newsgroups: lists.freebsd.hackers References: <4gr0cd$ls9@msunews.cl.msu.edu> X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #3 (NOV) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In lists.freebsd.hackers you write: >I'm trying to do this to a BSDI box but it steadfastly >refuses to set the DISPLAY variable at the far end, (despite what >teh man page says) I cant comment intelligently, except to say that it works perfectly between two FreeBSD boxes, and a RS/6k and a FreeBSD box. -Crh -- Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 25 19:23:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA15267 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 19:23:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA15260 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 19:23:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA06979; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 19:22:57 -0800 Message-Id: <199602260322.TAA06979@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, netbsd-help@NetBSD.ORG, bsdi-users@BSDI.COM Subject: Re: Multisession CD-R In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 25 Feb 1996 19:55:00 +0700." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 19:22:56 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Right, and you can add Plextor cdrom drives which we have have been able to CDI, VIDEOCD, and AUDIOCDs. Amancio >>> Frank Durda IV said: > Terry Lambert writes: > [1]If I remember correctly, he also read audio format CD's as data, so > [1]you could eliminate the DAAD conversion. > > FYI, reading the redbook data is already allowed by some of the > CD-ROM drives, such as the matcd driver. Just use the /dev/matcd0c to > get the raw 2352 byte blocks from any CD. > > Frank Durda IV |"What are we going to do tonite ?" > or uhclem%nemesis@rwsystr.nkn.net |"The same thing we do every > | night: Try to annoy Microsoft!" > or ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem | - Gatesy and the Brain > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 25 20:23:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA18576 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 20:23:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA18567 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 20:23:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0tquSy-0009YyC; Sun, 25 Feb 96 20:23 PST Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 20:23:16 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Go SCSI! Big improvement... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Just wanted to mention that I finally upgraded my box at home to SCSI.. The main thing that was holding me back before was that I needed to replace my VLB IDE card with a plain old ISA one because you can only have 2 VLB cards on a motherboard, not three (thanks to Joerg for pointing this out!). Now I've got a Quantum Lightning 730MB SCSI in there, and the performance difference is quite noticable. Interestingly, I ran Winbench 96 under NT before and after, and the DiskMark was only 10K/sec faster, but both 16 and 32-bit CPUMarks had shot up almost 9% (must be less CPU load during paging)... I just installed FreeBSD on the new SCSI drive and it's working pretty good, but unfortunately I've been in NT too much to get all of my Unix files transferred over from the IDE partition (because I wanted to "clean house" while I was doing it).. However, lest you all think I've totally gone over to the "dark side" I've got a FreeBSD box set up at my university, and we're trying to get a partnership with some CIS (computer information systems) majors to get another FreeBSD box on the Web. Internet serving is one area where I can NOT in good faith recommend either NT or Linux, but wholeheartedly will recommend FreeBSD! Also, I've been learning MFC and Visual C++ (that's why I've been in NT so much) with the specific goal of porting FreeBSD programs over to Win32, so I'll post my progress on that as time goes by. Keep on hacking! ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 25 23:00:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA29378 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 23:00:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA29371 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 23:00:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.4/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id XAA09988; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 23:00:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 23:00:49 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: Jake Hamby cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sun, 25 Feb 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > porting FreeBSD programs over to Win32, so I'll post my progress on that > > ---Jake Why don't you go the other way (win32 -> freebsd) ;-) == Chris Layne ============================================================== == coredump@nervosa.com ================= http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 25 23:12:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA29716 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 23:12:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA29695 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 23:11:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rbezuide@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA02345 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:08:50 +0200 From: R Bezuidenhout Message-Id: <199602260708.JAA02345@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Extra entry with /usr/bin/head ?? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:08:49 +0200 (SAT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi all ... I have been experiencing the following "problem" with head in FreeBSD 2.1-STABLE. Head has the option -n for specifying the number of lines to scan, but the following happens. > head -n 1 YES YES h <- head wants an extra entry here before returning ? > This is the same with every number you give head. I had a look in the source code and made the following change which changes the sequence of tests in the while statement. This will cause head to first check the count and then get the next line of characters and not cause it to first get the characters even if the count (cnt) has become 0. Thanx ... *** /usr/src/usr.bin/head/head.c Mon Aug 28 07:36:45 1995 --- ./head.c Mon Feb 26 08:55:39 1996 *************** *** 113,119 **** { register int ch; ! while ((ch = getc(fp)) != EOF && cnt) { if (putchar(ch) == EOF) err(1, "stdout: %s", strerror(errno)); if (ch == '\n') --- 113,119 ---- { register int ch; ! while (cnt && (ch = getc(fp)) != EOF) { if (putchar(ch) == EOF) err(1, "stdout: %s", strerror(errno)); if (ch == '\n') From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 25 23:37:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA00854 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 23:37:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from lirmm.lirmm.fr (lirmm.lirmm.fr [193.49.104.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA00841 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 23:37:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from lirmm.fr (baobab.lirmm.fr [193.49.106.14]) by lirmm.lirmm.fr (8.7.1/8.6.4) with ESMTP id IAA10431 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 08:37:17 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199602260737.IAA10431@lirmm.lirmm.fr> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: patches Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 08:37:16 +0100 From: "Philippe Charnier" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, You will find enclosed a patch that makes the following changes: - Makefiles: use install -C instead of cmp -s || install - Makefiles: use .for/.endfor - intro.1: add a reference for intro.9 - handbook: use strip -d instead of strip -x for kernels - strip: correct usage string (-x was missing) - install.1: correct typo in install.1 -------- -------- Philippe Charnier charnier@lirmm.fr LIRMM, 161 rue Ada, 34392 Montpellier cedex 5 -- France ------------------------------------------------------------------------ begin 644 aa.patch.gz M'XL("""C,#$"`V%A+G!A=&-H`,5;>W.;2!+_&WV*KIQOUSX9!`)D"<=;B1_9 MU9YCIVRG-EN;*Q>"D<29AXZ''Y7U=[^>&1!@"X1D)W+92#"/[I[^3;\8#WV; MW!LP\9..XUMN8I/.1_.&C!V7M`Y>_M.Z.+H$.ID!G6G@D>ZT\R$DY/#R6+)N MHS`(XDX46IU%Y'=O6R&)0X?<.OX$0OR(G,`'1>JV;&<\!C$!,<0[F/,KBN+\ M1E`&`[TC]SMR#Y2NT>T::E^@8]OM=JE3KR-W.UT=%-W05$/76N_>@=C;511H M]W8'\.Y="\[.SP]_/Q#\(!C]MP4M&)%Q$!+'CV+3=8V6*+S;^G9R]-OY(Z3/ M*,-;WSX,3T\N'VFSB/W!P=;YTWVP`_B*;8+ES4",8&O+P<;CD\NKX^'%8R>) MPOF"T*:__^:]`7^VO@W/+J_>GYX^@FB!&."#P^'9^1]G>#_A-[]>?,(;#S1- M8S,7QE:1V&>=[,`GK;;TC-]66RB2/5I.]BL.P3'2T><+1JY&/@M6P98B4 M!Z#T#&5@*#V!C:[!K2X;>H_A5J&0;>.USX![_.G]\7'[`!?^='AXAIJX1%7R MNX]_7@W//IP_+L2S:-F0JVX?4HQR6:5IE2+G[2E:`=:`ZWR2X@R+R+TO]'.&3=GO#\"YR4(UMI8QMI:E)UE6!C:[$MFH@O%5NDU6*ZC9> M]QBVGX`6A!)F,QWN,RW,S=F_I.DJEI=*7[2^PEJFMRVL"E0^#AC!.L:X=,QF MPR+X>+--PZ?`025\U!)ZU#KP*$JGVP-Y8.B*H74%.K82.SU#I::184=3$#5M M=J7868">E4V)6#(E*&BU'7EB=FK[LD;*H142T9N9H>D9A>^217G=/CK:`;Q^ M.'W_Z^5.$?;%GEP*Z>K]Q:\G5X\+\+%Q>#1!AU9"A[8,'3K(LH%V0]\3Z-@: MRZ*B>]49.KH:M2QX+5H6F\PP)C$$5$BVHE/P9M=#7&T,T^R@`E;E:(RBA'HTCP?HOYV\/SZY MP+AN[MD`YJ[-JU+G?%%HGWF\MC+XJ!5<3@2>)1=/>'^%]**!I%Y-GH$XJ4@S M0C(A]QN'<)&'ZD!,+P=B>C/\JH:L"&QT72"&-I6;RP&UEH/46"X'[S.;R(2I M\8!^DO78F$ELS.)2(%$%6E'2<=1^;Q,@6DB_V@"68['NLF!,[E(`:?A+`=15 M:_UMWY`'/!I3=Q&:;?JA,A`)WBV84I#$Q7BE&9AL=VSY-2E#@=>N7*D8/]?7+GB&CE>:Y M:KAF'GVJ;#4]`E M(28#F\1@+IOBNX.NH2R-P@B:,-L;!%N!>+5MD\O&35Y>YL;T2=/P5V"C MZ["F&;K"S1M&#AH:.#7-H,H9NV=WIZYD@6=KZ:=./U?!($Y1DPFSQG5S)CXZ M&[H0=C5L:75L:2]B2WL!6WH=6_J+V-*7L55X6\77EHO"1F[LM=7B[3NSS-D& M-W")_&L4W.:^0MWC&8!6NW\'AJIDOD+I,F>AR`5O0?FK]!7/(G_6NQ)V:>L< M=]NPM9T"8:=Q[,]=0S.*^[!3S:?HFQZQ1_7LYIU>G>ME]"GSA7V4"EH:^0.W M4F29OD]"*3`@#FYL,N8>LKR7(BMR-KB72N1?OI9S/WT&U#\3C M3R<7'X=7UT?G9Y?GIR<@#G-%K(0\%+-&9[QUW7`B'5X?3[P8=0TD:(RY36:7 M48/,4BD'_(K<"'$:@HF^,E'D6LCUC:Z6O:'K*NP5G<)A)X@QB6(0IQ#%]G7X MOTBR8OCI)PB]PH.58%>3I>$Z1"]+.*/ER2:2J*O%S!Y"=E"DP30=SXG%R)F- MQ.*PE]1H7DH\%^S\\/?\)1:=R!G#7R".<872ZLQ_]B&>$K]T1&/>6*>@F(SEZ%N=2*GX551ANT:VQ?IK"YF>`U7OH_7]91Z=]_-:LE=F9V.D%.'3^-T9[R*:4WEJ49XWF%](Y7/\;V# MRN;B-'7R2>RX&\1;B?S+3VDAB!3\!>J]]PRUM^R4EB)GJ0R-*>>!)2T)M`^$ MB,2S,+!B)W9)10JSOEE,A:\W^"]'3$ZF`C'S#HT0XT6)ORFXE&A78F50PLJ@ M0=HK&UK?T.F)OD%M"0D!U>5IKSI@>:\ZF)_I^P=\^?(%[@A$TR!Q;9B:MP0" MWWW`"P'/C*?2=!=,WP83PL0EP.H=^8E]:?IS)$E2W?G^8=[;)W?IG+3#=OGT M*2Y77AUEG2K+H[QU0=32J#S*1]>%*[S+_LXK!"F(@2;"+`5Q-#5#TK$#JS-% M;8R"X*9S0T*?N*Q>(443S_V!L&[`3270^R6@]^&9&!3P3Q_.C:2J@#*@GE8? M"'0N"OR*SMDA"EH?4K+CT'N%X]``]'05C![`)F,S<>-=F`9WY):$TML.\6B< M@WW^H&$:QFHI&=PB$:(=GXT2QXT13C<$-P>-_"`8@X.31.9#2P1X&\>_\#$2 MX^UM!Q_PS<1"OS#Q69\(5PE1?\_:<=_1UE9[Y?%V:3PR'F`DZOBF*V5;D$F1 M/044PP]"C[;#GT&"@CR`Z49!MKWI%'1`XC,",V*G*["+DL<0/7BC`*]#N94=MI2\A'P):\6:O>(/[(K\98,NG60NNDAB5CRJFY6J& M$>F?5_#F\]GP"WR.2/ASA"[$3Q`:E\ELYA*/^+$9/L!Q8"7T>_0&I$Q':,&D MD>-WX5;)^H(H6TF][Q?Z%.T*.M9^ M6FKI4L/"/ZB.;@/';N$BF1.RO=.";^AKMNFSG?$L1*6,MZ/8QD1L%]ZP/@:G M`'^)]G^8\(`^]:O_9F5/3W?:L%W,INFIH>WR_]=F;-OY!M8G= M@SLIW472H0MB;$Y`O'/L>`K'44N4AC%\<.$(]T<[^]Z"(^H2J`5E<1^UM\XX MW7?8P6I!,(NI7$X$T8Q8SM@A]FX+R+U%9G':%^UK."$Q5ZOITG.Y#]C#B>(H M]"PNXBTR.[+9%Y"'1O/\=@H8^>\$8OP`5$"\SH,FL=%,FTVFL-HTO# JI;:>2(TM5U.4;^SB@L5)Z$ Message-Id: <199602260743.IAA05341@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: anyone know how to get X11 forwarding on ssh? To: julian@freefall.freebsd.org (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 08:43:58 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602252311.PAA27178@freefall.freebsd.org> from Julian Elischer at "Feb 25, 96 03:11:02 pm" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1688 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL7 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk It seems that Julian Elischer said: > I'm trying to do this to a BSDI box but it steadfastly > refuses to set the DISPLAY variable at the far end, (despite what > teh man page says) Do you have "xauth" on the BSDI box ? It needs it on the remote side. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #1: Tue Feb 20 01:16:51 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 25 23:52:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA01697 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 23:52:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA01572 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 1996 23:51:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id IAA26849 ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 08:51:01 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id IAA27609 ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 08:51:00 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.3/keltia-uucp-2.7) id IAA05321; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 08:39:32 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199602260739.IAA05321@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: strange keyboard behavior. (X11) To: didier@aida.org Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 08:39:32 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "didier@aida.org" at "Feb 25, 96 10:52:41 pm" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1688 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL7 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that didier@aida.org said: > I've recently replaced my US keyboard by a french one. since then I'm > unable to type use the following keys: ~#{[|`\^@]} > these keys are a combination of ALT and a key of the 1234... line. Put the following in XF86config: ------------------------------------------------------------ # Let the server do the NumLock processing. This should only be required # when using pre-R6 clients ServerNumLock # To set the LeftAlt to Meta, RightAlt key to ModeShift, # RightCtl key to Compose, and ScrollLock key to ModeLock: LeftAlt Meta RightAlt ModeShift # RightCtl Compose ScrollLock ModeLock EndSection ------------------------------------------------------------ > xmodmap does not seems to do anything. > xkeycaps does not help either. .xmodmap sent by private E-mail. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #1: Tue Feb 20 01:16:51 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 00:23:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA04018 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 00:23:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA04010 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 00:22:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA29949; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:24:48 +0100 Message-Id: <199602260824.JAA29949@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) To: coredump@nervosa.com (invalid opcode) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:24:47 +0100 (MET) From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Christoph Kukulies Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > On Sun, 25 Feb 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > > > porting FreeBSD programs over to Win32, so I'll post my progress on that > > > > ---Jake > > Why don't you go the other way (win32 -> freebsd) ;-) I think one has to considerate this sincerely. Is anyone following what's the Wine project is heading? I think that Win32 on top of a rock solid OS like FreeBSD would be a perfect marriage. I see a strong need for a unified GUI in the Unix world and be it Win32. Wait two years and all existing 16bit and segmentation anachronisms will be thrown overboard. Then we will face a exploding Win32 world (under a merged WinNT4.0 and Win97). It's time to wake up. > > == Chris Layne ============================================================== > == coredump@nervosa.com ================= http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == > > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 00:26:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA04231 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 00:26:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from karon.dynas.se (karon.dynas.se [192.71.43.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA04226 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 00:25:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from host.domain by karon.dynas.se with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #5) id m0tqyFh-000EUPC; Mon, 26 Feb 96 09:25:49 +0100 Received: by spirit.dynas.se (Smail3.1.28.1 #32) id m0tqyFh-000JeVC; Mon, 26 Feb 96 09:25:49 +0100 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:25:49 +0100 (MET) From: Mikael Hybsch To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: PATCH: Minor fixes to /usr/sbin/ppp (FreeBSD-stable version) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk The current version doesn't allow you to use the "estab" keyword in the filter rules without specifying a source or destination port. The diff for filter.c fixes that. In filter.h, the constant OP_LT should really be 3, otherwise "show ifilter" will index element 4 in the array opnames[0-3]. diff -ur ORG/filter.c ./filter.c --- ORG/filter.c Sun Feb 25 19:07:05 1996 +++ ./filter.c Sun Feb 25 19:47:51 1996 @@ -206,12 +206,6 @@ filterdata.opt.srcop = filterdata.opt.dstop = A_NONE; return(1); } - if (argc < 3) { -#ifdef notdef - printf("bad udp syntax.\n"); -#endif - return(0); - } if (argc >= 3 && STREQ(*argv, "src")) { filterdata.opt.srcop = ParseOp(argv[1]); if (filterdata.opt.srcop == OP_NONE) { diff -ur ORG/filter.h ./filter.h --- ORG/filter.h Sun Feb 25 19:46:48 1996 +++ ./filter.h Sun Feb 25 19:46:58 1996 @@ -48,7 +48,7 @@ #define OP_NONE 0 #define OP_EQ 1 #define OP_GT 2 -#define OP_LT 4 +#define OP_LT 3 struct filterent { int action; /* Filtering action */ -- Mikael Hybsch Email: micke@dynas.se DynaSoft, Dynamic Software AB Phone: +46-8-615 84 00 Hammarby Fabriksv 13, Box 92058 Fax: +46-8-641 92 00 S-120 06 STOCKHOLM, SWEDEN From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 01:17:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA06342 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 01:17:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from ham.mics.msu.su (ham.mics.msu.su [158.250.28.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA06333 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 01:16:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mics.msu.su (mics.msu.su [158.250.28.65]) by ham.mics.msu.su (8.6.4/8.6.4) with ESMTP id MAA23197 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:15:17 +0300 Received: from MICS/SpoolDir by mics.msu.su (Mercury 1.21); 26 Feb 96 12:15:38 +0300 Received: from SpoolDir by MICS (Mercury 1.21); 26 Feb 96 12:14:38 +0300 From: "Mad Phantom" Organization: Microelectronics Center To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:14:35 GMT+3 Subject: Time Quota. X-Confirm-Reading-To: "Mad Phantom" X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <1BF1C4E0FE3@mics.msu.su> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi there! I'm install FreeBSD 2.1 on my 486 modem station. And I want to install something like time quota for modem line. I mean time limit for different users (on different dialup lines). Does anyone knows how can I do it? Thanks. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Drogajtcev Maxim Valerievich | System Administrator. Fax: 7 (095) 932 8997 | System Developer. Voice: 7 (095) 939 2307 | Moscow State University, Russia. e-mail: max@mics.msu.su | Microelectronic Center. UUDECODE, MIME, PGP and etc. | ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 01:56:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA08985 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 01:56:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA08980 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 01:56:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id BAA20302 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 01:49:07 -0800 Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA04153; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:44:29 +0200 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:44:28 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Jake Hamby cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 25 Feb 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > Just wanted to mention that I finally upgraded my box at home to SCSI.. > The main thing that was holding me back before was that I needed to > replace my VLB IDE card with a plain old ISA one because you can only have > 2 VLB cards on a motherboard, not three (thanks to Joerg for pointing this > out!). Now I've got a Quantum Lightning 730MB SCSI in there, and the Why not? Do you really want to say it was just a joke on the manufacturer's part to put *three* VLB slots on the motherboards? > performance difference is quite noticable. Interestingly, I ran Winbench > 96 under NT before and after, and the DiskMark was only 10K/sec faster, > but both 16 and 32-bit CPUMarks had shot up almost 9% (must be less CPU > load during paging)... > > I just installed FreeBSD on the new SCSI drive and it's working pretty > good, but unfortunately I've been in NT too much to get all of my Unix files > transferred over from the IDE partition (because I wanted to "clean house" > while I was doing it).. However, lest you all think I've totally gone > over to the "dark side" I've got a FreeBSD box set up at my university, > and we're trying to get a partnership with some CIS (computer information > systems) majors to get another FreeBSD box on the Web. Internet serving > is one area where I can NOT in good faith recommend either NT or Linux, > but wholeheartedly will recommend FreeBSD! Also, I've been learning MFC and > Visual C++ (that's why I've been in NT so much) with the specific goal of > porting FreeBSD programs over to Win32, so I'll post my progress on that > as time goes by. Why would you port FreeBSD programs to WinNT? Why not vice versa? > > Keep on hacking! > ---Jake > Sander From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 02:11:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA09702 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 02:11:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA09513 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 02:05:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA04177; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:59:37 +0200 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:59:36 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Christoph Kukulies cc: invalid opcode , jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-Reply-To: <199602260824.JAA29949@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Christoph P. Kukulies wrote: > > > > On Sun, 25 Feb 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > > > > > porting FreeBSD programs over to Win32, so I'll post my progress on that > > > > > > ---Jake > > > > Why don't you go the other way (win32 -> freebsd) ;-) > > I think one has to considerate this sincerely. Is anyone following what's > the Wine project is heading? I think that Win32 on top of a rock solid > OS like FreeBSD would be a perfect marriage. I see a strong need for a > unified GUI in the Unix world and be it Win32. Wait two years and all > existing 16bit and segmentation anachronisms will be thrown overboard. > Then we will face a exploding Win32 world (under a merged WinNT4.0 and > Win97). It's time to wake up. A point about which I must disagree... Win32 is not as good. Perhaps it will never be (just think about DOS - it *did* become better over the time of it's existence). If the things go on as they are now, IMHO FreeBSD will have better SMP support than Win32... Emulating another system is never as good as running in native mode, no matter how hard you try. How about making headers and libraries which would allow you to compile you win32 code for FreeBSD and X11 with little to no changes? It would allow all those shareware people list that their products are available for several platrorms, one of which is real unix :) Sander. > > > > > > == Chris Layne ============================================================== > > == coredump@nervosa.com ================= http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == > > > > > > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de > PS. It is actually not a challenge to anybody to start Win32 support... So please no flames. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 02:19:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA10014 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 02:19:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA10008 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 02:19:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0tr015-0003wSC; Mon, 26 Feb 96 02:18 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA11090; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:18:47 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Narvi cc: Jake Hamby , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:44:28 +0200." Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:18:43 +0100 Message-ID: <11088.825329923@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > On Sun, 25 Feb 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > > > Just wanted to mention that I finally upgraded my box at home to SCSI.. > > The main thing that was holding me back before was that I needed to > > replace my VLB IDE card with a plain old ISA one because you can only have > > 2 VLB cards on a motherboard, not three (thanks to Joerg for pointing this > > out!). Now I've got a Quantum Lightning 730MB SCSI in there, and the > > Why not? Do you really want to say it was just a joke on the > manufacturer's part to put *three* VLB slots on the motherboards? yes, more or less. Only very carefully selected combinations can run with all three slots populated, and only seldom at full speed. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 02:43:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA11067 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 02:43:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA11054 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 02:42:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA04349; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:39:10 +0200 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:39:08 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: Jake Hamby , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... In-Reply-To: <11088.825329923@critter.tfs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > > > > On Sun, 25 Feb 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > > > > > Just wanted to mention that I finally upgraded my box at home to SCSI.. > > > The main thing that was holding me back before was that I needed to > > > replace my VLB IDE card with a plain old ISA one because you can only have > > > 2 VLB cards on a motherboard, not three (thanks to Joerg for pointing this > > > out!). Now I've got a Quantum Lightning 730MB SCSI in there, and the > > > > Why not? Do you really want to say it was just a joke on the > > manufacturer's part to put *three* VLB slots on the motherboards? > yes, more or less. > > Only very carefully selected combinations can run with all three slots > populated, and only seldom at full speed. > OK. Most implementations do restrict the population of the VLB slots, most notably with max 2 bus-masters. Still, a configuration with a VLB GUI accelerator, a VLB IDE and a SCSI busmaster should work in most cases. But of course, it may not. Just in addition to that and a bit off the course - I saw an ad for a combined SCSI/IDE/floppy/IO VLB controller lately. I not sure about FreeBSD support for such a beast (actually, it sounds something like no), but such a thing could be a thing to boost many not so old machines made pefore the PCI which happen to have just two VLB slots. Not much perhaps - but sometimes it counts. > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. > http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. > whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. > Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. > Sander From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 02:49:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA11356 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 02:49:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA11351 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 02:49:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id LAA01244 ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:49:12 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id LAA28334 ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:49:11 +0100 Received: (uucp@localhost) by fasterix.frmug.fr.net (8.6.11/fasterix-941011) with UUCP id KAA11644; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 10:33:04 +0100 Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by tetard.frmug.fr.net (8.7.3/8.7.3/tetard-uucp-2.7) id KAA24868; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 10:32:14 +0100 (MET) From: Philippe Regnauld Message-Id: <199602260932.KAA24868@tetard.frmug.fr.net> Subject: Re: strange keyboard behavior. (X11) To: didier@aida.org, hackers@freebsd.org (hackers) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 10:32:14 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "didier@aida.org" at Feb 25, 96 10:52:41 pm X-rene: Tu dois pas les avoir perdues, normalement. X-wing-fighter: et puis X-men, X-open, X-ta-mere... X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk didier@aida.org écrit / writes: > xmodmap does not seems to do anything. > xkeycaps does not help either. I have the following in my XF86Config: # To set the LeftAlt to Meta, RightAlt key to ModeShift, # RightCtl key to Compose, and ScrollLock key to ModeLock: LeftAlt Meta RightAlt ModeShift # RightCtl Compose # ScrollLock ModeLock -- Phil -- - [ regnauld@tetard.frmug.fr.net / +48.8N+2.3E / +33 1 4507 9391 / Sol 3 ] - - [ regnauld@freenix.fr / FreeBSD 2.x / ] - "Le schtroumpf est à l'homme ce que le bleu est au billard" - F.Berjon From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 03:25:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA13238 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 03:25:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA13233 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 03:25:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA00533; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:06:45 +0100 Message-Id: <199602261106.MAA00533@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) To: narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee (Narvi) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:06:44 +0100 (MET) From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Cc: kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE, coredump@nervosa.com, jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Narvi" at Feb 26, 96 11:59:36 am From: Christoph Kukulies Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > > On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Christoph P. Kukulies wrote: > > > > > > > On Sun, 25 Feb 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > > > > > > > porting FreeBSD programs over to Win32, so I'll post my progress on that > > > > > > > > ---Jake > > > > > > Why don't you go the other way (win32 -> freebsd) ;-) > > > > I think one has to considerate this sincerely. Is anyone following what's > > the Wine project is heading? I think that Win32 on top of a rock solid > > OS like FreeBSD would be a perfect marriage. I see a strong need for a > > unified GUI in the Unix world and be it Win32. Wait two years and all > > existing 16bit and segmentation anachronisms will be thrown overboard. > > Then we will face a exploding Win32 world (under a merged WinNT4.0 and > > Win97). It's time to wake up. > > A point about which I must disagree... Win32 is not as good. Perhaps it "Win32 is not as good" - maybe, maybe not. You see best the effect of "what is good" and what is used widespread when you compare L*n*x with FreeBSD with FreeBSD is standing for "what is good" :-) Win32 is strong at existing software base, MFC, GUI, MSVC++ IDE, debuggers, bitmaps/bitblt. I don't like it particularly, I just see it's impact on the industry. It would be a snap to construct a GUI based FreeBSD installation dialog under MSVC/MFC, at least what the outer appearance is concerned. A Win32 implementation could be native and maybe server client based as well. I don't know how far off an emulation of the Win32 PE format (portable executable) under FreeBSD would be. While we are at it, what can 'Willows' supply here? > will never be (just think about DOS - it *did* become better over the > time of it's existence). If the things go on as they are now, IMHO > FreeBSD will have better SMP support than Win32... > > Emulating another system is never as good as running in native mode, no > matter how hard you try. How about making headers and libraries which > would allow you to compile you win32 code for FreeBSD and X11 with little > to no changes? It would allow all those shareware people list that their > products are available for several platrorms, one of which is real unix :) > > Sander. > > > > > > > > > > > == Chris Layne ============================================================== > > > == coredump@nervosa.com ================= http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == > > > > > > > > > > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de > > > > PS. It is actually not a challenge to anybody to start Win32 support... > So please no flames. > > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 04:40:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA16543 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 04:40:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA16533 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 04:40:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA06587; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 23:34:22 +1100 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 23:34:22 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199602261234.XAA06587@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, phk@critter.tfs.com Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jehamby@lightside.com Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >> > Just wanted to mention that I finally upgraded my box at home to SCSI.. >> > The main thing that was holding me back before was that I needed to >> > replace my VLB IDE card with a plain old ISA one because you can only have >> > 2 VLB cards on a motherboard, not three (thanks to Joerg for pointing this >> > out!). Now I've got a Quantum Lightning 730MB SCSI in there, and the >> >> Why not? Do you really want to say it was just a joke on the >> manufacturer's part to put *three* VLB slots on the motherboards? >yes, more or less. >Only very carefully selected combinations can run with all three slots >populated, and only seldom at full speed. I had no problems with 3 slots populated by a BT445C, a graphics card and a U34F on a non-name motherboard. What was I doing wrong? :-) Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 04:46:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA16703 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 04:46:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA16695 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 04:46:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA04564; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:46:04 +0200 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:46:04 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Christoph Kukulies cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-Reply-To: <199602261106.MAA00533@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Christoph P. Kukulies wrote: [... Start deleted ...] > > A point about which I must disagree... Win32 is not as good. Perhaps it > > "Win32 is not as good" - maybe, maybe not. You see best the effect > of "what is good" and what is used widespread when you compare > L*n*x with FreeBSD with FreeBSD is standing for "what is good" :-) > I know the problems with "very good, just not that widespead" and "ultimate crap - but people just like it". The thing between Win32 is not that much it's usefullness - just the fact that it makes programming things at least sensible (now where was that winmm32.dll? the way to make win31 use 32 bit data/programs before win32s came - most people probably even haven't heard about it as it was unuseable for programming). But to bring FreeBSD to the desktop you need a bit more than just emulation - otherwise microsoft will be able to point and say - on the same hardware, FreeBSD runs all (counting, of course only windows programs) programs mmuch slowlier. And also have a thing to compare Win95 against on the charts... > Win32 is strong at existing software base, MFC, GUI, MSVC++ IDE, debuggers, > bitmaps/bitblt. > I don't like it particularly, I just see it's impact on the industry. > It would be a snap to construct a GUI based FreeBSD installation dialog > under MSVC/MFC, at least what the outer appearance is concerned. Ever tried Tcl/Tk? You can do the same under FreeBSD/XFree86 in at least the same time + the tools are free. > A Win32 implementation could be native and maybe server client based > as well. I don't know how far off an emulation of the Win32 PE format > (portable executable) under FreeBSD would be. The implementation should be native. At least as I see it, all other ways will cause too much overhead... Anyways, at least one thing is sure - as soon as even one enhancement gets done, it will be in the next MS product and without any mentioning of the original authours. > While we are at it, what can 'Willows' supply here? > > > > will never be (just think about DOS - it *did* become better over the > > time of it's existence). If the things go on as they are now, IMHO > > FreeBSD will have better SMP support than Win32... > > > > Emulating another system is never as good as running in native mode, no > > matter how hard you try. How about making headers and libraries which > > would allow you to compile you win32 code for FreeBSD and X11 with little > > to no changes? It would allow all those shareware people list that their > > products are available for several platrorms, one of which is real unix :) > > > > Sander. > > > > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de > Sander From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 05:25:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA18080 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 05:25:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA17980 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 05:23:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id SAA10862; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 18:21:16 +0500 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199602261321.SAA10862@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: as(1) patch & dis To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 18:21:15 +0500 (GMT+0500) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199512261054.VAA31894@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Dec 26, 95 09:54:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello! I have found a bug in the assembler. It does not understand the following construction: _x: .long 1 _y: .long 2 mov %eax,(_y-_x)(%ebx) ^^^^^^^^ (differences as displacements) I needed this for my experiments with kernel startup time BIOS calls. I have fixed this bug. Commit it please if you find this patch enough good. BTW, for fixing this bug :-) I have written a 386 disassembler. It's alpha quality yet but already useful. I think any people who wants to reengineer some "object-only" BSDi code will find it useful too. So how about to commit it ? Thanks! The patch is: *** 1.1 1996/01/22 12:23:07 --- config/tc-i386.c 1996/02/26 13:09:25 *************** *** 1644,1649 **** --- 1644,1652 ---- RESTORE_END_STRING (displacement_string_end); input_line_pointer = save_input_line_pointer; switch (exp_seg) { + case SEG_DIFFERENCE: + i.types[this_operand] |= Disp32; /* this is an address ==> 32bit */ + break; case SEG_ABSENT: /* missing expr becomes absolute 0 */ as_bad("missing or invalid displacement '%s' taken as 0", From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 05:57:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA19750 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 05:57:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA19728 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 05:57:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA00848; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:56:01 +0100 Message-Id: <199602261356.OAA00848@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) To: narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee (Narvi) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:56:01 +0100 (MET) From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Cc: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Narvi" at Feb 26, 96 02:46:04 pm From: Christoph Kukulies Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Christoph P. Kukulies wrote: > > [... Start deleted ...] > > > A point about which I must disagree... Win32 is not as good. Perhaps it > > > > "Win32 is not as good" - maybe, maybe not. You see best the effect > > of "what is good" and what is used widespread when you compare > > L*n*x with FreeBSD with FreeBSD is standing for "what is good" :-) > > > > I know the problems with "very good, just not that widespead" and > "ultimate crap - but people just like it". The thing between Win32 is not > that much it's usefullness - just the fact that it makes programming > things at least sensible (now where was that winmm32.dll? the way to make > win31 use 32 bit data/programs before win32s came - most people probably > even haven't heard about it as it was unuseable for programming). As I said, these 16bit anachronisms like thunking (which you are mentioning) will disappear soon. > > But to bring FreeBSD to the desktop you need a bit more than just > emulation - otherwise microsoft will be able to point and say - on the I didn't say that you have to emulate it in X (if that would work at all) I did not follow the 'Willows' thing but I have the feeling that this is getting close to what we need. > same hardware, FreeBSD runs all (counting, of course only windows > programs) programs mmuch slowlier. And also have a thing to compare Win95 > against on the charts... > > > Win32 is strong at existing software base, MFC, GUI, MSVC++ IDE, debuggers, > > bitmaps/bitblt. > > I don't like it particularly, I just see it's impact on the industry. > > It would be a snap to construct a GUI based FreeBSD installation dialog > > under MSVC/MFC, at least what the outer appearance is concerned. > > Ever tried Tcl/Tk? You can do the same under FreeBSD/XFree86 in at least > the same time + the tools are free. Tcl/Tk is slow. Tcl/Tk has a lot of rough edges. Partially looks ugly (too broad borders, ugly shades and colors - ok, you may argue it is customizable). Tcl/Tk is such a moving target that you better ship the Tcl/Tk version with your source which you were using when you compiled the program. Show me a good file selector box in Tcl/Tk or a tree view. Text selection sucks imho. > > > A Win32 implementation could be native and maybe server client based > > as well. I don't know how far off an emulation of the Win32 PE format > > (portable executable) under FreeBSD would be. > > The implementation should be native. At least as I see it, all other ways > will cause too much overhead... Anyways, at least one thing is sure - as > soon as even one enhancement gets done, it will be in the next MS product > and without any mentioning of the original authours. > > > While we are at it, what can 'Willows' supply here? > > > > > > > will never be (just think about DOS - it *did* become better over the > > > time of it's existence). If the things go on as they are now, IMHO > > > FreeBSD will have better SMP support than Win32... > > > > > > Emulating another system is never as good as running in native mode, no > > > matter how hard you try. How about making headers and libraries which > > > would allow you to compile you win32 code for FreeBSD and X11 with little > > > to no changes? It would allow all those shareware people list that their > > > products are available for several platrorms, one of which is real unix :) > > > > > > Sander. > > > > > > > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de > > > > Sander > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 06:26:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA21297 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 06:26:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA21292 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 06:26:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0tr3sW-0003wSC; Mon, 26 Feb 96 06:26 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA11545; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 15:26:12 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Christoph Kukulies cc: narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee (Narvi), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:56:01 +0100." <199602261356.OAA00848@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 15:26:11 +0100 Message-ID: <11543.825344771@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Emulating another system is never as good as running in native mode, no > matter how hard you try. Some ol' IBMers will disagree with that statement... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 07:09:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA23411 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 07:09:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA23406 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 07:09:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA05385; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 07:05:55 -0800 (PST) To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: Narvi , Jake Hamby , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:18:43 +0100." <11088.825329923@critter.tfs.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 07:05:55 -0800 Message-ID: <5383.825347155@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Why not? Do you really want to say it was just a joke on the > > manufacturer's part to put *three* VLB slots on the motherboards? > yes, more or less. I think we could just as easily say that it was a (sad) joke on the manufacturer's part to include *any* VLB slots on the motherboard.. :-) VLB was a brief bad dream in between EISA and PCI and is probably best forgotten. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 08:16:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA27975 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 08:16:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from rk.ios.com (rk.ios.com [198.4.75.55]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA27953 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 08:15:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rashid@localhost) by rk.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA03858 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:15:49 -0500 From: Rashid Karimov Message-Id: <199602261615.LAA03858@rk.ios.com> Subject: IPFW - how fast/robust is it ? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:15:49 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi there folx, I'm about to implement some filtering here on user servers , namely I want to disallow users to provide any TCP services (bind and listen on ports above 1024). They should be able to use ftp in the passive mode, so there's no problem there. So as I understand I can do it via IPFW mechanism. The only Q is , since the thing is so deep in the kernel , how robust and stable it is ? How does it affect the networking in the sense of speed , etc ? Rashid From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 08:17:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA28046 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 08:17:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from rk.ios.com (rk.ios.com [198.4.75.55]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA28038 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 08:17:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rashid@localhost) by rk.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA03873 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:17:15 -0500 From: Rashid Karimov Message-Id: <199602261617.LAA03873@rk.ios.com> Subject: CCD - where to get it from ? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:17:15 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I've heard some much here about this magic CCD thing so I want to try it finally :) So where can I get it. Any advices/pitfalls to avoid , FAQs , etc? Rashid From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 08:32:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA28924 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 08:32:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA28919 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 08:32:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA14974; Mon, 26 Feb 96 10:31:13 -0600 Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA16015; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:31:12 -0700 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:31:12 -0700 Message-Id: <9602261631.AA16015@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> From: Sean Kelly To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de Cc: narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602261356.OAA00848@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> (kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de) Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Christoph" == Christoph Kukulies writes: Christoph> Tcl/Tk has a lot of rough edges. Partially looks ugly Christoph> (too broad borders, ugly shades and colors - ok, you Christoph> may argue it is customizable). That's nothing but opinion and doesn't drive the argument. See: I think Tcl/Tk looks really nice. And what's so ugly about gray? Hey, some of my carpet is gray and my hair'll turn gray some day, too! Christoph> Show me a good file selector box in Tcl/Tk or a tree Christoph> view. Text selection sucks imho. I'll grant you the file selector, but the text selection? Nope, 'fraid not. Works just fine. Looks real nice, too. :-) -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory, Boulder Colorado USA TASK: Shoot yourself in the foot. In HyperTalk: Put the first bullet of gun into foot left of leg of you. Answer the result. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 09:10:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA01585 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:10:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA01494 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:08:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA01438; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 18:04:56 +0100 Message-Id: <199602261704.SAA01438@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) To: kelly@yarmouth (Sean Kelly) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 18:04:55 +0100 (MET) From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Cc: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9602261631.AA16015@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> from "Sean Kelly" at Feb 26, 96 09:31:12 am From: Christoph Kukulies Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > >>>>> "Christoph" == Christoph Kukulies writes: > > Christoph> Tcl/Tk has a lot of rough edges. Partially looks ugly > Christoph> (too broad borders, ugly shades and colors - ok, you > Christoph> may argue it is customizable). > > That's nothing but opinion and doesn't drive the argument. See: I > think Tcl/Tk looks really nice. And what's so ugly about gray? Hey, > some of my carpet is gray and my hair'll turn gray some day, too! > > Christoph> Show me a good file selector box in Tcl/Tk or a tree > Christoph> view. Text selection sucks imho. > > I'll grant you the file selector, but the text selection? Nope, > 'fraid not. Maybe I'm wrong but last time I used a text selection in a Tcl/Tk app it didn't behave a la Mac/Smalltalk/Windows - CTRLC-C, CTRL-X, CTRL-V, Auto replace when selected so you can type into a selection, selected region appears as 3D-shaded stripes instead of a whole block. > Works just fine. Looks real nice, too. :-) Nice, maybe for someone who comes from an alphanumerical world and never saw other GUIs before. You would also declare Motif style GUI as sufficiently nice, do you? Actually it is sufficient to do the job but that's it. OK, these may be my opinions but I think others my come to similar conclusions. Tcl/Tk isn't something that knocks you off your socks, same is Motif. I played with tkWM - pleppedeplepp. Where is an IDE (Integrated development environment)? I doubt that Tcl/Tk would develop as the incending force to produce myriads of applications in a manner Win32 does. Spend a day with a Win32/MSVC++ programmer. You would want to have this under Unix. -provoke mode off :-) > > -- > Sean Kelly > NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory, Boulder Colorado USA > > TASK: Shoot yourself in the foot. In HyperTalk: Put the first bullet > of gun into foot left of leg of you. Answer the result. > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 09:16:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA02032 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:16:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA02024 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:16:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA01878 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:16:35 -0800 (PST) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:16:34 -0800 Message-ID: <1858.825354994@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'm talking about the Walnut Creek CDROM distribution, of course, and I'm starting to feel like my little "live CD" idea hasn't really turned out to be such a big hit. Most people aren't even sure how and when to use it, just judging by the emails I get, and those that do know what it's for report that they've used it oh, maybe once. I myself must confess to having used my copy of disk #2 only once, and that was only to rescue myself by grabbing a copy of ld.so off of it. :-) So the question then naturally arises as to whether this second CD might not be more usefully populated by something else.. A Lite2 tree? A copy of Slackware 3.0? The complete "naughty jpeg" collection from ftp.penet.fi? Just what would you folks like to see? :-) Jordan [now awaiting a flood of mail from people who find ftp.penet.fi doesn't really exist and want to know the real address.. :-)] From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 09:20:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA02182 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:20:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA02123 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:19:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA01522 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 18:19:42 +0100 Message-Id: <199602261719.SAA01522@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: Disk perf. with different HDs/Adapt. To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 96 18:16:25 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: <199602240722.SAA23535@godzilla.zeta.org.au>; from "Bruce Evans" at Feb 24, 96 6:22 pm X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> Those 1.92 seconds make for exactly 6826667 Bytes per second ... >> And the 7.43 give some 6962656 Bytes/s. > >> (Yes, I know, the results aren't exact to more than 2 decimals >> due to the limited time resolution ...) > > Someone should fix dd to use the available resolution of 4-6 decimal > places. I suppose the output of `time' is too standard to change. How about a high-resolution option. For example, # time dd if=/dev/rsd0a of=/dev/null count=200 bs=64k 13107200 bytes transferred in 2 secs (6553600 bytes/sec) 1.92 real 0.01 user 0.05 sys # time -h dd if=/dev/rsd0a of=/dev/null count=200 bs=64k 13107200 bytes transferred in 2 secs (6553600 bytes/sec) 1.920317 real 0.009387 user 0.0512614 sys Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 09:37:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA02987 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:37:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA02975 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:37:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA02233 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 18:36:44 +0100 Message-Id: <199602261736.SAA02233@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: strange keyboard behavior. (X11) To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 96 18:33:28 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: <199602260739.IAA05321@keltia.freenix.fr>; from "Ollivier Robert" at Feb 26, 96 8:39 am X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > It seems that didier@aida.org said: >> I've recently replaced my US keyboard by a french one. since then I'm >> unable to type use the following keys: ~#{[|`\^@]} >> these keys are a combination of ALT and a key of the 1234... line. > > Put the following in XF86config: > > (etc) Does this mean that there are hardware differences between US and French keyboards (apart from the keycaps, of course?). I know they have one additional key, but apart from that? Or did the question relate to the AltGr bindings? Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 09:37:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA03057 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:37:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA03051 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:37:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from hamby1.lightside.net by covina.lightside.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0tr6rU-0009YpC; Mon, 26 Feb 96 09:37 PST Received: by hamby1.lightside.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BB042E.43827350@hamby1.lightside.net>; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:39:03 -0800 Message-ID: <01BB042E.43827350@hamby1.lightside.net> From: Jake Hamby To: "'Christoph Kukulies'" , "'Narvi'" Cc: "'hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: RE: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:38:50 -0800 Encoding: 27 TEXT Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >But to bring FreeBSD to the desktop you need a bit more than just >emulation - otherwise microsoft will be able to point and say - on the >same hardware, FreeBSD runs all (counting, of course only windows >programs) programs mmuch slowlier. And also have a thing to compare Win95 >against on the charts... Well, TWIN (from Willows) runs pretty fast, even faster than "native" Motif, it looks like. And I don't see how FreeBSD could turn out slower than NT (which has to go through a "client-server" scheme for every API call.) I think that with a library such as TWIN, and enough programs compiled "natively" (as well as binary emulation for the rest), and don't forget MFC/C++ support, you would turn out as good or better than NT, and even Win95. >Ever tried Tcl/Tk? You can do the same under FreeBSD/XFree86 in at least >the same time + the tools are free. Tcl/Tk sounds interesting, I would like to find time to learn that. I hope it is simpler than Motif to come up with a good interface (no $3000 GUI builder tools needed?). The thing is that with VC++ and MFC, you can come up with a VERY pretty user interface with VERY little work because most of the work has been done by the application framework. You can achieve almost as good results with Motif with a $3000 GUI builder but sometimes the GUI builder itself is very unintuitive, and certainly doesn't help you MAINTAIN the program it generates as much as VC++ does with ClassWizard. ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 09:38:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA03118 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:38:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA03106 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:38:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from hamby1.lightside.net by covina.lightside.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0tr6rd-0009YyC; Mon, 26 Feb 96 09:37 PST Received: by hamby1.lightside.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BB042E.49006530@hamby1.lightside.net>; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:39:12 -0800 Message-ID: <01BB042E.49006530@hamby1.lightside.net> From: Jake Hamby To: "'invalid opcode'" , "'Christoph Kukulies'" Cc: "'jehamby@lightside.com'" , "'hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: RE: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:38:56 -0800 Encoding: 29 TEXT Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >I think one has to considerate this sincerely. Is anyone following what's >the Wine project is heading? I think that Win32 on top of a rock solid >OS like FreeBSD would be a perfect marriage. I see a strong need for a >unified GUI in the Unix world and be it Win32. Wait two years and all >existing 16bit and segmentation anachronisms will be thrown overboard. >Then we will face a exploding Win32 world (under a merged WinNT4.0 and >Win97). It's time to wake up. Isn't that what TWIN from Willows software is up to? Check out www.willows.com, they already have a Windows API developers kit for Unix which you can get for free for noncommercial work. According to the developer I talked to (Rob Farnum) they are working to support the full Win32 API by June, and are looking for Win32 binary compatibility by the end of this year. Already TWIN looks like a better bet than WINE, especially since the focus is on recompiling Windows apps natively to Unix (using GCC or another compiler). And I agree with you on the Windows API. Motif is just too big, slow, expensive, and difficult to program. And my big complaints with Windows in the past were basically complaints with its 16-bit segmented nature, and the underlying DOS, neither of which exist in Windows NT (and are present to a much lesser extent in Windows 95). The only problem with something like TWIN is that now I've progressed to writing C++ programs using MFC, and nobody has written a clone of that yet, and although MS gives away the source code, they won't let you recompile it for non-Windows operating systems, from what I understand. :-( ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 09:38:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA03108 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:38:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA03099 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:38:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from hamby1.lightside.net by covina.lightside.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0tr6rQ-0009YiC; Mon, 26 Feb 96 09:37 PST Received: by hamby1.lightside.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BB042E.4120DCA0@hamby1.lightside.net>; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:38:59 -0800 Message-ID: <01BB042E.4120DCA0@hamby1.lightside.net> From: Jake Hamby To: "'Poul-Henning Kamp'" , "'Jordan K. Hubbard'" Cc: "'Narvi'" , "'Jake Hamby'" , "'hackers@FreeBSD.org'" Subject: RE: Go SCSI! Big improvement... Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:38:47 -0800 Encoding: 16 TEXT Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I think we could just as easily say that it was a (sad) joke on >the manufacturer's part to include *any* VLB slots on the motherboard.. :-) Hey, Jordan, you never did mail me that Buslogic VLB card you offered! :-) >VLB was a brief bad dream in between EISA and PCI and is probably best >forgotten. Well, it is pretty good at what it was intended for (a faster bus for video cards), and assuming you can live with the two-slot limit, works great for SCSI and IDE cards, too.. But, like most PC "standards", ultimately, it's a kludge. At any rate it works for me, so I'll live with it until I can afford a new Pentium (P6?) system like you guys.. :-) ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 09:38:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA03091 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:38:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA03084 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:38:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from hamby1.lightside.net by covina.lightside.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0tr6rZ-0009YrC; Mon, 26 Feb 96 09:37 PST Received: by hamby1.lightside.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BB042E.4636BDE0@hamby1.lightside.net>; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:39:07 -0800 Message-ID: <01BB042E.4636BDE0@hamby1.lightside.net> From: Jake Hamby To: "'Christoph Kukulies'" , "'Narvi'" Cc: "'invalid opcode'" , "'jehamby@lightside.com'" , "'hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: RE: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:38:53 -0800 Encoding: 29 TEXT Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >A point about which I must disagree... Win32 is not as good. Perhaps it >will never be (just think about DOS - it *did* become better over the >time of it's existence). If the things go on as they are now, IMHO >FreeBSD will have better SMP support than Win32... It's VERY popular, though! :-) It has a lot of features from Unix (e.g. Winsock, memory-mapped files, etc..) and features that Unix will never have a standard for (e.g. context-sensitive hypertext help, unified printing system, unified TrueType font system, OLE). Now I agree that, for example, OpenDoc is superior to OLE, but OLE has been around for several years now, and OpenDoc is just coming out. The other problem is that you COULD put all the features I mentioned into an X program (help, printing, fonts, etc), but you'd have to either buy somebody else's code, or write your own, and either way you end up spending way more time and/or money, and get a program which looks very different from others of its kind. >Emulating another system is never as good as running in native mode, no >matter how hard you try. How about making headers and libraries which >would allow you to compile you win32 code for FreeBSD and X11 with little >to no changes? It would allow all those shareware people list that their >products are available for several platrorms, one of which is real unix :) As I mentioned, there is ALREADY a toolkit to do this called TWIN, from Willows software (www.willows.com). You can compile Windows (and soon Win32) programs to native code using GCC or any other compiler. Already it is in a much better state than WINE, and it is free for non-commercial development. This was one big reason for me to decide to learn Win32. ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 09:42:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA03437 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:42:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from dreamlabs.dreaming.org (dreamlabs.dreaming.org [198.96.119.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA03428 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:41:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mitayai@localhost) by dreamlabs.dreaming.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA11133; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:29:44 -0500 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:29:41 -0500 (EST) From: Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe To: Marc Fournier , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: hrm.. -current probs? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hallo... i am running an existing 2.1.0-RELEASE system, just now finished supping over 2.1.0-CURRENT, did a make depend and got the following error... i didn't add my config file for sake of brevity, i'll put it up on http://www.dreaming.org/~mitayai/kernel/config.html if anyone is interested in seeing/critiquing it... anyone have any ideas? -Mit [dreamlabs:root]/usr/src/sys/compile/dreamlabs#make depend cc -c -O -W -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Winline -nostdinc -I. -I../.. -I../../sys -I/usr/include -DI486_CPU -DSHOW_BUSYBUFS -DLINUX -DIBCS2 -DEXT2FS -DDEBUG -DCOMPAT_LINUX -DUCONSOLE -DSCSI_DELAY=15 -DCOMPAT_43 -DCD9660 -DMSDOSFS -DNFS -DFFS -DINET -DKERNEL -DMAXUSERS=10 -UKERNEL ../../i386/i386/genassym.c In file included from /usr/include/sys/param.h:88, from ../../i386/i386/genassym.c:43: /usr/include/sys/signal.h:117: warning: function declaration isn't a prototype /usr/include/sys/signal.h:160: warning: function declaration isn't a prototype cc -static -O -W -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Winline -nostdinc -I. -I../.. -I../../sys -I/usr/include -DI486_CPU -DSHOW_BUSYBUFS -DLINUX -DIBCS2 -DEXT2FS -DDEBUG -DCOMPAT_LINUX -DUCONSOLE -DSCSI_DELAY=15 -DCOMPAT_43 -DCD9660 -DMSDOSFS -DNFS -DFFS -DINET -DKERNEL -DMAXUSERS=10 genassym.o -o genassym ./genassym >assym.s rm -f param.c cp ../../conf/param.c . make: don't know how to make ../../kern/vnode_if.sh. Stop [dreamlabs:root]/usr/src/sys/compile/dreamlabs# ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe at DreamLabs Community Information Network Toronto/Peterborough/Oshawa, Ontario, Canada Web: http://www.dreaming.org/~mitayai IRC: Mitayai Email: mitayai@dreaming.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 09:50:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA03811 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:50:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA03771 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:49:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA01580; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 18:51:21 +0100 Message-Id: <199602261751.SAA01580@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 18:51:21 +0100 (MET) From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Cc: coredump@nervosa.com, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <01BB042E.4BC3CAF0@hamby1.lightside.net> from "Jake Hamby" at Feb 26, 96 09:38:56 am From: Christoph Kukulies Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > to a much lesser extent in Windows 95). The only problem with something > like TWIN is that now I've progressed to writing C++ programs using MFC, > and nobody has written a clone of that yet, and although MS gives away the There is a (rather steep) version of MFC for Unix, Wind/U from Bristol Technologies. > source code, they won't let you recompile it for non-Windows operating > systems, from what I understand. :-( > > ---Jake > > begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT [something unix mail reader have to cope in the near future] [...] --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 09:53:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA04044 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:53:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay-2.mail.demon.net (disperse.demon.co.uk [158.152.1.77]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA03743 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:48:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by relay-2.mail.demon.net id ab02534; 26 Feb 96 17:14 GMT Received: from wbsmail.zipmail.co.uk ([194.70.221.1]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id aa08377; 26 Feb 96 17:13 GMT Received: from 192.153.153.24.webfactory.co.uk (kiss.demon.co.uk [158.152.97.57]) by wbsmail.zipmail.co.uk (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA26851 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 17:12:21 GMT Message-Id: <199602261712.RAA26851@wbsmail.zipmail.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Phil Taylor Organization: Lan Systems To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 17:03:57 +0000 Subject: Adaptec RAID Controller. Reply-to: phil@zipmail.co.uk Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have just managed to get on the eval of the new Adaptec all-singing all-dancing Multi-port RAID controller. Looks nice, any it's mine to keep as long as I return the eval form within 60 Days of receiving the card. The 8xxx something I can't remember. Is there any support in FBSD for this card as I would like to use it in a reasonably fault-tolerant machine and if supported, H/W level RAID should be better than the (incomplete ?) software level stuff that people are working on for FBSD. Any info ????? Cheers Phil. /* Phil Taylor (phil@zipmail.co.uk) LAN Systems - LAN/WAN Specialists */ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 09:59:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA04291 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:59:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA04280 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:59:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA01618; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 19:00:55 +0100 Message-Id: <199602261800.TAA01618@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: my mailer berzerq? To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org (user alias) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 19:00:55 +0100 (MET) From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Cc: j@tcd-dresden.de (user alias) In-Reply-To: <199602261644.BAA02443@mail.tky007.tth.expo96.ad.jp> from "Masafumi NAKANE/=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQ2Y6LDJtSjgbKEI=?=" at Feb 27, 96 01:44:55 am From: Christoph Kukulies Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Any mail experts out there who can tell me what might be going on here?. Someone is complaining that I send duplicate 'From' lines (see below) to the FreeBSD list(s). Do others see this too? > > Message-Id: <199602261356.OAA00848@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> > > Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) > > From: Christoph Kukulies > > From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" > > To: narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee (Narvi) > > Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:56:01 +0100 (MET) Is it my mailer or is it our special mail forwarding technique (Joerg, Petzi)? --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 10:10:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA04900 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 10:10:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA04895 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 10:10:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA05099; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 10:06:47 -0800 (PST) To: Sean Kelly cc: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:31:12 MST." <9602261631.AA16015@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 10:06:47 -0800 Message-ID: <5097.825358007@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > That's nothing but opinion and doesn't drive the argument. See: I > think Tcl/Tk looks really nice. And what's so ugly about gray? Hey, > some of my carpet is gray and my hair'll turn gray some day, too! :-) FWIW, my opinion of Tk (in pretty much all its various versions in whatever colors) is that it's the finest GUI development environment currently available for $0, period. Yes, there are aspects of its which are unwieldy and annoying (I don't care for the placement management stuff *at all*, to be honest) but the sheer bredth of functionality can't really be beat. The canvas object is an amazing little hack just in and of itself, and it makes for very arbitrarily complex controls when you need them - very cute, and something even the big commercial apps don't provide (or do very badly). Unless something really awesome comes over the horizon, perhaps with java doing the custom graphics and your "GUI window" really being somebody's netscape window, well, I think TCL and Tk are the ones to back. I'm definitely going with this combination for my own work, and if anything I think that FreeBSD's committment to TCL has been insufficiently energetic. Even just a "boilerplate" library and TCL interpreter available with the base system, with all the little "must have" add-ons already bolted on, would be a great stimulus for a new and better class of applications. sysinstall (reborn "setup") and the pkg_* tools would definitely be my first clients for such a library, seeing as I've already been forced to do this myself just to bootstrap my own efforts. Jordan > > Christoph> Show me a good file selector box in Tcl/Tk or a tree > Christoph> view. Text selection sucks imho. > > I'll grant you the file selector, but the text selection? Nope, > 'fraid not. Works just fine. Looks real nice, too. :-) > > -- > Sean Kelly > NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory, Boulder Colorado USA > > TASK: Shoot yourself in the foot. In HyperTalk: Put the first bullet > of gun into foot left of leg of you. Answer the result. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 10:11:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA04976 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 10:11:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from border.com (mail.border.com [199.71.190.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA04968 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 10:11:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by janus.border.com id <20481-2>; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:17:51 -0500 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:10:45 -0500 From: Jerry Kendall To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? In-Reply-To: <1858.825354994@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <96Feb26.131751est.20481-2@janus.border.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk FWIW: I think the 'live' CD is great... Just gzip all the files that are there so that I(and others) can get a files instead of having to completely reinstall some package... This is a pain when I will not install over an existing installed package... The extra room can be used for "naughty jpeg" and other interesting stuff(IMO). On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I'm talking about the Walnut Creek CDROM distribution, of course, and > I'm starting to feel like my little "live CD" idea hasn't really > turned out to be such a big hit. Most people aren't even sure how and > when to use it, just judging by the emails I get, and those that do > know what it's for report that they've used it oh, maybe once. I > myself must confess to having used my copy of disk #2 only once, and > that was only to rescue myself by grabbing a copy of ld.so off of it. :-) > > So the question then naturally arises as to whether this second CD > might not be more usefully populated by something else.. A Lite2 > tree? A copy of Slackware 3.0? The complete "naughty jpeg" > collection from ftp.penet.fi? Just what would you folks like to see? :-) > > Jordan > > [now awaiting a flood of mail from people who find ftp.penet.fi doesn't > really exist and want to know the real address.. :-)] > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any comments or opinions in this message are my own and may or may not reflect the comments or opinions of my present or previous employers. Jerry Kendall Border Network Technologies Inc. System Software Engineer Tel +1-416-368-7157 ext 303 jerry@border.com Fax +1-416-368-7178 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 10:11:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA05010 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 10:11:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA05002 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 10:11:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA05337; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 10:09:08 -0800 (PST) To: Jake Hamby cc: "'Poul-Henning Kamp'" , "'Narvi'" , "'hackers@FreeBSD.org'" Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:38:47 PST." <01BB042E.4120DCA0@hamby1.lightside.net> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 10:09:08 -0800 Message-ID: <5335.825358148@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >I think we could just as easily say that it was a (sad) joke on > >the manufacturer's part to include *any* VLB slots on the motherboard.. > :-) > > Hey, Jordan, you never did mail me that Buslogic VLB card you offered! :-) Yes, you're right. I'm just a lazy sot and I hate going to the post office.. :-) The board is still sitting here on my shelf, gathering dust and going to waste, so I guess I probably should.. Erm, probably a good idea to send me your address again - I've almost certainly lost it by now.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 10:13:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA05216 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 10:13:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA05211 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 10:13:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA29952; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:16:18 -0700 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:16:18 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199602261816.LAA29952@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? In-Reply-To: <1858.825354994@time.cdrom.com> References: <1858.825354994@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I'm talking about the Walnut Creek CDROM distribution, of course... The CVS bits, the mailing list archives, the entire XFree86 sources untarred, the most recent GNU tools, comp.sources.unix archives might be nice, since most of the sources compile 'out of the box'. Copies of most of the relevant Usenet FAQ's for the tools we use (INN, CNews, majordomo, TeX, Emacs, etc..) I'm trying to think of things that would be most useful and fairly easy to get that would requre minimal effort by WC, else it won't be done. :) I think that all of the first group would be useful to many folks, and some of the second group would be useful to ISP types. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 10:32:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA06544 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 10:32:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from grumble.grondar.za (root@grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA06539 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 10:32:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from grumble.grondar.za (mark@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA07327; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 20:31:54 +0200 (SAT) Message-Id: <199602261831.UAA07327@grumble.grondar.za> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 20:31:53 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > I'm talking about the Walnut Creek CDROM distribution, of course, and > I'm starting to feel like my little "live CD" idea hasn't really > turned out to be such a big hit. On the contrary, the install tools do not use it enough. I was waiting with baited breath for someone to fix unionfs, allowing a floppy to be union mounted on top of / - Voila! Full system running off a CD! > Most people aren't even sure how and > when to use it, just judging by the emails I get, and those that do > know what it's for report that they've used it oh, maybe once. I > myself must confess to having used my copy of disk #2 only once, and > that was only to rescue myself by grabbing a copy of ld.so off of it. :-) I've used it a couple of times as a rescue disk to fix newbies' fubars. Its also useful (never happened - touch wood!) as a recovery disk after being hacked. > So the question then naturally arises as to whether this second CD > might not be more usefully populated by something else.. A Lite2 > tree? A copy of Slackware 3.0? The complete "naughty jpeg" > collection from ftp.penet.fi? Just what would you folks like to see? :-) Hmm... A Lite2 tree - I'd love it! CVS tree - I'd love it! Original tarballs of "things" in the tree like bind, sendmail, all the gnu stuff that we use or should begin to use (incentives!), taylor UUCP, und so weiter... {Net|Open}BSD's CVS trees :-) :-) :-) Latest Linux kernel sources (WTF) :-) M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grondar.za for PGP key From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 10:33:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA06586 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 10:33:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from tombstone.sunrem.com (tombstone.sunrem.com [199.104.90.54]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA06581 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 10:33:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from brandon@localhost) by tombstone.sunrem.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA01572; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:33:20 -0700 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:33:19 -0700 (MST) From: Brandon Gillespie To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-Reply-To: <5097.825358007@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > That's nothing but opinion and doesn't drive the argument. See: I > > think Tcl/Tk looks really nice. And what's so ugly about gray? Hey, > > some of my carpet is gray and my hair'll turn gray some day, too! > > FWIW, my opinion of Tk (in pretty much all its various versions in > whatever colors) is that it's the finest GUI development environment > currently available for $0, period. > > Yes, there are aspects of its which are unwieldy and annoying (I don't > care for the placement management stuff *at all*, to be honest) but > the sheer bredth of functionality can't really be beat. The canvas > object is an amazing little hack just in and of itself, and it makes > for very arbitrarily complex controls when you need them - very cute, > and something even the big commercial apps don't provide (or do very > badly). > > Unless something really awesome comes over the horizon, perhaps with python/tkinter From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 10:35:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA06727 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 10:35:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from tombstone.sunrem.com (tombstone.sunrem.com [199.104.90.54]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA06721 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 10:35:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from brandon@localhost) by tombstone.sunrem.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA01588; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:35:35 -0700 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:35:33 -0700 (MST) From: Brandon Gillespie To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? In-Reply-To: <1858.825354994@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I'm talking about the Walnut Creek CDROM distribution, of course, and > I'm starting to feel like my little "live CD" idea hasn't really > turned out to be such a big hit. Most people aren't even sure how and > when to use it, just judging by the emails I get, and those that do > know what it's for report that they've used it oh, maybe once. I > myself must confess to having used my copy of disk #2 only once, and > that was only to rescue myself by grabbing a copy of ld.so off of it. :-) > > So the question then naturally arises as to whether this second CD > might not be more usefully populated by something else.. A Lite2 > tree? A copy of Slackware 3.0? The complete "naughty jpeg" > collection from ftp.penet.fi? Just what would you folks like to see? :-) just do not get rid of /usr/src off CD #2, I find that to be extremely useful as I dont have to install the entire source tree, but I can still grab tidbits of os source when needed, and 'lndir /cdrom/usr/src /usr/src' is also rather handy ;) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 11:09:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA08753 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:09:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from ki.net (root@ki.net [142.77.249.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA08742 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:08:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA25882; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:07:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:07:19 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe cc: Marc Fournier , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: hrm.. -current probs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe wrote: > > Hallo... i am running an existing 2.1.0-RELEASE system, just now finished > supping over 2.1.0-CURRENT, did a make depend and got the following > error... i didn't add my config file for sake of brevity, i'll put it up > on http://www.dreaming.org/~mitayai/kernel/config.html if anyone is > interested in seeing/critiquing it... > > anyone have any ideas? > > -Mit > > [dreamlabs:root]/usr/src/sys/compile/dreamlabs#make depend > cc -c -O -W -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit > -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Winline > -nostdinc -I. -I../.. -I../../sys -I/usr/include -DI486_CPU > -DSHOW_BUSYBUFS -DLINUX -DIBCS2 -DEXT2FS -DDEBUG -DCOMPAT_LINUX > -DUCONSOLE -DSCSI_DELAY=15 -DCOMPAT_43 -DCD9660 -DMSDOSFS -DNFS -DFFS > -DINET -DKERNEL -DMAXUSERS=10 -UKERNEL ../../i386/i386/genassym.c > In file included from /usr/include/sys/param.h:88, > from ../../i386/i386/genassym.c:43: > /usr/include/sys/signal.h:117: warning: function declaration isn't a > prototype > /usr/include/sys/signal.h:160: warning: function declaration isn't a > prototype > cc -static -O -W -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit > -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Winline > -nostdinc -I. -I../.. -I../../sys -I/usr/include -DI486_CPU > -DSHOW_BUSYBUFS -DLINUX -DIBCS2 -DEXT2FS -DDEBUG -DCOMPAT_LINUX > -DUCONSOLE -DSCSI_DELAY=15 -DCOMPAT_43 -DCD9660 -DMSDOSFS -DNFS -DFFS > -DINET -DKERNEL -DMAXUSERS=10 genassym.o -o genassym > ./genassym >assym.s > rm -f param.c > cp ../../conf/param.c . > make: don't know how to make ../../kern/vnode_if.sh. Stop > [dreamlabs:root]/usr/src/sys/compile/dreamlabs# > Sent to the list so that everyone knows it isn't a -current problem... My machine, /usr/src/sys: news> ls Makefile gnu miscfs nfs ufs compile i386 msdosfs pccard vm conf isofs net pci ddb kern netinet scsi dev libkern netipx sys His machine, /usr/src/sys: dreamlabs: {3} ls Makefile conf dev i386 compile ddb gnu Can we say...oops? :) Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting System | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, Administrator | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://www.ki.net | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 11:26:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA09739 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:26:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA09731 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:25:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id NAA15772; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:23:36 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602261923.NAA15772@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: CCD - where to get it from ? To: rashid@rk.ios.com (Rashid Karimov) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:23:35 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602261617.LAA03873@rk.ios.com> from "Rashid Karimov" at Feb 26, 96 11:17:15 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I've heard some much here about this magic > CCD thing so I want to try it finally :) > So where can I get it. Any advices/pitfalls > to avoid , FAQs , etc? Forgery.cs.berkeley.edu, and while I will suggest you look at the notes I posted on -hackers a while back, the short answer is that there are no serious pitfalls that I have seen. ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 11:33:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA10224 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:33:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from dilbert.oasysinc.com ([199.165.197.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA10218 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:33:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from zeki.oasysinc.com ([199.165.197.104]) by dilbert.oasysinc.com (post.office MTA v1.9.1 evaluation license) with SMTP id AAA481 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:30:10 -0800 Received: by zeki.oasysinc.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BB043F.ED78FA80@zeki.oasysinc.com>; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:45:29 -0800 Message-ID: <01BB043F.ED78FA80@zeki.oasysinc.com> From: Zeki@Dilbert.Oasysinc.com (Zeki Basbuyuk) To: "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: IP spoofing ?? Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:45:23 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi,=20 I am writing a software piece for ip spoofing!. The idea is to hide some = machines from the internet on seleceted services. Does anyone know = anything about available software on the internet? Thanks in advance for any reply.. Zeki Basbuyuk Systems Engineer Email: Zeki@Oasysinc.com Phone (805) 683-3030 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 11:46:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA10988 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:46:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA10971 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:46:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.4/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id LAA11891; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:45:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:45:15 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Narvi , Jake Hamby , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... In-Reply-To: <5383.825347155@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > VLB was a brief bad dream in between EISA and PCI and is probably best > forgotten. > Jordan At which there should have been NO PCI, it should have gone EISA -> EISA2, with speedup's on the EISA2 bus like they were with PCI. This way we could still use all of our previous ISA and EISA cards in the EISA2 slots, plus not have to worry about lame slot combinations at the such. I seriously think they did this in order to force everyone to buy new cards as this new technology emerged. == Chris Layne ============================================================== == coredump@nervosa.com ================= http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 11:46:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA10996 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:46:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (pechter@shell.monmouth.com [205.164.220.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA10970 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:46:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by shell.monmouth.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA26012 for hackers@freefall.freebsd.org; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:43:08 -0500 From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Message-Id: <199602261943.OAA26012@shell.monmouth.com> Subject: hackers To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:43:07 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <199602261737.JAA03067@freefall.freebsd.org> from "owner-hackers-digest@freefall.freebsd.org" at Feb 26, 96 09:37:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk What to do with the second CD -- how about the CVS tree for those of us who'd like to consider rolling our installation disks. Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 11:57:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA11930 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:57:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA11925 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:57:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA16589; Mon, 26 Feb 96 13:57:12 -0600 Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA17964; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:57:11 -0700 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:57:11 -0700 Message-Id: <9602261957.AA17964@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> From: Sean Kelly To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de Cc: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602261704.SAA01438@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> (kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de) Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Christoph" == Christoph Kukulies writes: Christoph> Maybe I'm wrong but last time I used a text selection Christoph> in a Tcl/Tk app it didn't behave a la Christoph> Mac/Smalltalk/Windows - CTRLC-C, CTRL-X, CTRL-V, Auto Christoph> replace when selected so you can type into a selection, Christoph> selected region appears as 3D-shaded stripes instead of Christoph> a whole block. I think we might be suffering from a version difference problem. At least as of tk4.0, you get whole highlighted blocks with the obligatory 3-D borders only at the top, bottom, left, and right edges. Christoph> Nice, maybe for someone who comes from an Christoph> alphanumerical world and never saw other GUIs Christoph> before. You would also declare Motif style GUI as Christoph> sufficiently nice, do you? Absolutely not! From user interface tests I've run, Motif extracts the farts out of dead chickens compared with other user interface standards. In Motif, you're supposed to have a 3-D border on *everything* except the menu bar, which is where you need it (to indicate that those are active sites and not just labels). It's impossible to tell at a glance which are the selected or the deselected buttons in a group of radio or checkbuttons. Does ``out'' indicate selected or does ``in''? The difference between radio and checkbuttons is undersubtle. Finally, the scrollbar sucks: the user comes to understand that repeated clicking in the trough area goes through pages, so he happily pages along reading the material when suddenly, clicks don't work anymore. What happened? The elevator/thumb reached the cursor, dislodging his train of thought from the tracks of flow. Now, Tcl/Tk is stuck with some of these problems. But it did fix a few of them: hilighting of active elements when the cursor enters one; coloring of radio and checkbuttons to indicate selected items, and so forth. I've built many applications with OI, Motif, and Tcl/Tk. My Tcl/Tk apps look better and run just as fast as the apps built with the other toolkits. Best of all, user reactions are more positive. Christoph> I doubt that Tcl/Tk would develop as the incending Christoph> force to produce myriads of applications in a manner Christoph> Win32 does. Spend a day with a Win32/MSVC++ programmer. Christoph> You would want to have this under Unix. You are correct: while I may have done quite a bit of attractive and useful work with Tcl/Tk, the Unix realm still has a ways to go to attract VC++ programmers into our fold. I guess it's the model of Tcl/Tk which I like: I make compiled code to do the work of the application, but the user interface is all script. I can change the interface for different customers' needs without recompiling. In the meantime, the tix toolkit looks like it might help: it's got very good looking and useful file selector, hierarchical lists and tables, balloon help, and so forth. We're catching up. Slowly. Really slowly. -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory, Boulder Colorado USA If you ever go temporarily insane, don't shoot somebody, like a lot of people do. Instead, try to get some weeding done, because you'd really be surprised. -- Deep Thoughts, by Jack Handey From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 12:17:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA12852 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:17:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA12847 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:17:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0tr9MF-0003wUC; Mon, 26 Feb 96 12:17 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA12152; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 21:17:15 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Nate Williams cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:16:18 MST." <199602261816.LAA29952@rocky.sri.MT.net> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 21:17:15 +0100 Message-ID: <12150.825365835@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I'm talking about the Walnut Creek CDROM distribution, of course... > > The CVS bits, the mailing list archives, the entire XFree86 sources > untarred, the most recent GNU tools, comp.sources.unix archives might be > nice, since most of the sources compile 'out of the box'. > Copies of most of the relevant Usenet FAQ's for the tools we use (INN, > CNews, majordomo, TeX, Emacs, etc..) > > Nate ... and how about a kitchen-sink ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 12:25:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA13191 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:25:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA13186 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:25:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0tr9Tx-0003wrC; Mon, 26 Feb 96 12:25 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA12241 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 21:25:16 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: IP filtering strawman, comments please. Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 21:25:15 +0100 Message-ID: <12238.825366315@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Sorry for the wide cross-posting, followups to "hackers" only please ! IP filtering in FreeBSD, a strawman proposal. Poul-Henning Kamp 26 feb 1996 Ver: 1.1 This is a strawman intended to foster discussion about the future support for IP packet filtering in the FreeBSD kernel. Fig 1 shows a simplified schematic of the paths of IP packets in the FreeBSD kernel, and various potential spots for applying filters. =========================================================================== if0 --->(0i)--->+ | if1 --->(1i)--->+ | applications if2 --->(2i)--->+ ^ | | | v +--->(A)---> protocol stack --->(B)--->+ | | +--->(Ci)---> route through ---->(Co)--->+ | +--->(0o)---> if0 | +--->(1o)---> if1 | +--->(2o)---> if2 == Fig 1 ================================================================== The present support (as of 960226) provides the following support: There is one chain of rules, and it is applied at (A), (B), (Ci) and (Co). The following information is available, in addition to the packet itself: At (A) and (Ci), receiving interface. At (B) and (Co), destination interface. Now, this is clearly not optimal from particular many points, therefore I suggest the following model instead: There will be multiple chains of rules as follows: For each interface, two chains of rules. One filters incoming packets, the other outgoing packets. In Fig 1 these are the pairs (0i/0o), (1i/1o) &c. No information is available apart from the packet itself. There will be a filter-chain at (A) to filter what packets we let into the local protocol stack. In addition to the packet, information about the arrival interface is available. There will be a filter-chain at (B) to filter what packets we let out of the local protocol stack. In addition to the packet, information about the destination interface is available. There will be two filter-chains at (Ci) and (Co) to filter what packets we route through this machine. At (Ci) the arrival interface is known and at (Co) the destination interface is known in addition to the packet itself. Rules are numbered with 16 bit integers, and can appear on any number of filter-chains, such that a conceptual matrix is formed, as illustrated in Fig 2: =========================================================================== Rule# criteria 0i 1i 2i A Ci Co B 0o 1o 2o --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 00010 Deny all loose source route X X X X 00020 Deny all strict source route X X X X 00030 Deny all traffic via if0 X X 00040 Deny all tcp setup packets X X 65535 Allow all traffic X X X X X X X X X X == Fig 2 ================================================================== At each filtering point, the rules are applied in numeric order, until one of them matches the packet, the action from that rule is then taken. Just as important as where a rule can be applied, is what the rule can express, I suggest this functionality, this is more or less what we have now as well: Source-ip matches target+netmask Destination-ip matches target+netmask Protocol matches (any, udp, icmp, tcp, other). Packet has (not) ip-option(s) (loose source route, strict source route, timestamp, record route, other). Interface matches name Interface matches IP. For UDP & TCP: source-port matches target(-range) destination-port matches target(-range) For TCP: packet has (not) TCP flags (syn, rst, psh, urg, ack). Packet is (not) a non-initial fragment. Packet is (not) a broadcast. Packet is (not) a multicast. And finally, what should be done when the rule matches: "drop" the packet is discarded. "refuse" as drop, but an ICMP packet is sent if applicable. "pass" the packet is OK and continues it's merry way. "count" the counters for this rule is updated, but the rule doesn't match the packet, and the next rule is tried. "divert" the packet is sent to a (specific) instance of the tun# interface, where a user-mode process can have fun with it. Some modifiers to this exist: "printf" register the match with printf. "syslog" register the match with syslog. "verbose" be very detailed. "hexdump" be very very detailed. The changes to the code to support this scheme are rather simple: Add reference counts to each rule. Add two rule-chain headers to the if structure. Add the logic to specify what chains a rule applies to. Make sure ip_output knows if the packet was locally generated or routed. Comments ? Poul-Henning From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 12:26:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA13316 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:26:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA13300 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:25:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id OAA15857 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:25:28 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602262025.OAA15857@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Thinkpad 720 problems... To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:25:27 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Using Nate's floppy, we're still trying to get this Thinkpad 720 running FreeBSD. I'm trying to debug this from remote :-) It gets to the npx0: 387 emulator point and dies. CTRL-ALT-ESC does nothing, CTRL-ALT-DEL does nothing. No virtual console switches. boot -v still freezes at npx0:... Ideas? Suggestions? ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 12:29:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA13588 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:29:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA13583 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:29:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA02490; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:22:21 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602262022.NAA02490@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... To: narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee (Narvi) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:22:21 -0700 (MST) Cc: phk@critter.tfs.com, jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Narvi" at Feb 26, 96 12:39:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Only very carefully selected combinations can run with all three slots > > populated, and only seldom at full speed. > > OK. Most implementations do restrict the population of the VLB slots, > most notably with max 2 bus-masters. Still, a configuration with a VLB > GUI accelerator, a VLB IDE and a SCSI busmaster should work in most > cases. But of course, it may not. Most VLB motherboards have a single bus master slot, the one closest to the edge of the motherboard. Bus master DMA from a VLB controller will not cause the L2 and L1 caches to be updated/invalidated unless it is in a master slot. Not all VLB motherboards have even a single master slot. Each VLB transfer steals cycles from DRAM refresh. You can only steal so many cycles before your system becomes unstable. Generally, this is the number of cycles stolen by two slots. If you disable your L1 and L2 cache and jumper in more wait states, you can successfully use 2 VLB devices. But then why bother? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 12:31:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA13681 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:31:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA13667 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:31:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id VAA01280 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 21:24:43 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199602262024.VAA01280@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: RAM compression again To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 21:24:43 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have been thinking a little bit on the subject. I have come out with a relatively simple zero-removal algorithm which compresses (and decompressed) a 4KB page in about 100us (yes, that's 40MB/s) on a Pentium 100. While the compression ratio is not as high as with gzip, I consistently get a 2.5 reduction on FreeBSD 2.1R and 1.1.5 (maybe this is an artifact of the inefficient malloc) and on Alpha/OSF (64-bit architecture, known not to make a very efficient use of memory). More interesting is that some 15-20% of the pages compress to 64-bytes or less. Thus a very effective RAM-swap area could be implemented with little cost and additional complexity (with fixed-size, 64-bytes blocks). A description of the compression/decompression algorithm and its implementation are available from the following URL: http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/research.html I'd be interested if someone could try it on a more recent system than 2.1R and report the results. Thanks Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 12:32:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA13749 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:32:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA13726 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:31:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0tr9aM-0009YrC; Mon, 26 Feb 96 12:31 PST Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:31:50 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: Christoph Kukulies cc: coredump@nervosa.com, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-Reply-To: <199602261751.SAA01580@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Christoph P. Kukulies wrote: > There is a (rather steep) version of MFC for Unix, Wind/U from Bristol > Technologies. According to the Willows people, Bristol paid a rather steep license for the Windows source code, and MS isn't interested in bringing any new competition in this area. Therefore, any version of MFC to go with TWIN would have to be a free rewrite, since MS refuses to license to Willows. As an aside, the people at Byte and InfoWorld were impressed with the port of PowerBuilder to Sun, which used Wind/U and apparently looks like Motif but has the same functionality (and source code!) as the Windows version. Interestingly, TWIN looks like Windows, but I count that as an ADVANTAGE, since it a) doesn't require a Motif license, b) is faster and smaller than Motif, c) Unix doesn't have a common look and feel anyway (unlike the Mac), and d) What was Motif originally but a cheap knockoff of HP VUE and OS/2 Presentation Manager? :-) > > begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT > [something unix mail reader have to cope in the near future] > [...] Arggh!!! Didn't realize I was emitting nasty MS attachments to my mail! I was wondering what that crap was when I got a mail invitation to be an NT beta tester... Next thing you know we'll be back to the dark ages of: ======= RFC 822 headers ====== (remember VMS?) ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 12:37:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA14139 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:37:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA14134 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:37:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0tr9fH-0009YsC; Mon, 26 Feb 96 12:36 PST Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:36:56 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: Terry Lambert cc: Narvi , phk@critter.tfs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... In-Reply-To: <199602262022.NAA02490@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > Most VLB motherboards have a single bus master slot, the one closest > to the edge of the motherboard. > > Bus master DMA from a VLB controller will not cause the L2 and L1 caches > to be updated/invalidated unless it is in a master slot. > > Not all VLB motherboards have even a single master slot. > > Each VLB transfer steals cycles from DRAM refresh. You can only > steal so many cycles before your system becomes unstable. Generally, > this is the number of cycles stolen by two slots. > > > If you disable your L1 and L2 cache and jumper in more wait states, you > can successfully use 2 VLB devices. > > But then why bother? Interesting.. Because I traditionally have put my video card in the first slot. At any rate, I now have a VLB SVGA card and a VLB busmastering SCSI controller, and my system works (with both caches enabled) so I'm happy, but I wouldn't recommend VLB to anyone else, with PCI motherboards as inexpensive as they are now! Oddly, once I added SCSI, I started getting many CRC errors from my internal modem, and after trying literally dozens of combinations of IRQs and ports, I decided to reset it to the settings I was using before (COM3, IRQ9), and move it to a different slot (one of the VLB slots even though it is an 8-bit card). Now it works fine! Go figure... :-) ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 13:08:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA16262 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:08:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA16255 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:08:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0trA9P-0009YyC; Mon, 26 Feb 96 13:08 PST Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:08:05 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD ports to NT (was Win32...) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Because of the big response I got to my mention of Win32 ports, here is a brief rationale and plan for BSD programs I would like to move to Win32. I'll have a full Web page up in the next couple of weeks, but I'd like some initial comments if anyone feels strongly about this: First, my rationale. The big defect in Microsoft's original POSIX subsystem for Windows NT was that it was a strict implementation of POSIX.1 and obviously intended only to meet government purchasing requirements, rather than to be usable. The upshot is that there is NO graphics or networking support in their implementation, and so if your program needs more system resources, than for example, cat or vi, you're out of luck. Furthermore, since they needed to meet UNIX semantics to qualify for POSIX.1, these programs don't interact well with native Windows: having to type / instead of \, case-sensitivity, and "//D/mydir" instead of "D:\mydir", while traditional for Unix, just seem awkward in the Windows environment. Finally, because POSIX is a separate subsystem, and one that isn't loaded at boot-time, starting any of these utilities causes a substantial delay as the new subsystem is paged in. Oh, and of course, these programs don't work under Windows 95... My plan is this: Instead of porting programs like cp, cat, mv, or vi, which all have perfectly good Windows equivalents, slavishly following Unix semantics, and limiting oneself to Console apps, why not port programs that DON'T have good Windows equivalents, such as sed, awk, tcsh, fortune, sup, CVS, and the like? These programs should work with BOTH Unix and DOS-style filename notation, and wherever it is sensible, they should be enhanced with a GUI interface, online help, and other features that are so easy to achieve with Windows. My plan is to take the BSD source code, integrate each program into a Visual C++ project, and encapsulate the core functionality into C++ classes that communicate with the user-interface, which is based on the MFC C++ framework. All programs will be Win32, and will run on both Win95 and NT 3.51 or higher. Here is a brief list of programs/groups that I would like to port, roughly in order from earliest to latest completion: SUP client and server: This will give me a chance to gain experience with Winsock, and is also a good prerequisite because it will allow me to transfer the rest of the FreeBSD source code easily. Also, I plan for both programs to have a GUI interface, which will show available packages to download and download progress, as well as the ability to read/write the existing ASCII configuration files for SUP. I may decide to implement the server as an NT service, in which case it won't run under Windows 95, although the client will run on both. "fileutils": Named after the GNU package, I would like to port either BSD or GNU file utilities, such as cat, cp, chmod, as well as more advanced programs like file, sed, awk, grep, etc.. If the GNU tools are significantly faster, I would prefer to use them in preference to BSD, but am concerned about the restrictive GNU license, so may use BSD instead. Again, the priority is on the programs that DON'T have Windows equivalents AND make sense with the FAT/NTFS filesystems. "man": I plan to convert all man and info pages (with the help of Perl scripts, probably) to .RTF files and from there compile them to Windows Help files. However, they will retain the same format, and I'd like to write a wrapper "man" program which would automatically spawn WinHelp with the appropriate page. BSDgames: Seems like nobody cares about this package these days! I want to change that. I'm planning on a graphical version of Fortune suitable for use in one's Startup group, that would display a fortune for N seconds, then automatically quit. I also would like to see graphical versions of the other games (in the style of SunOS "canfieldtool") that should really pique the user's interest. Progutils: Tools such as diff, patch, RCS, CVS. I'll probably pass up tools like "make" in favor of Unix->Win32 converter programs for these files, since I plan to use VC++ rather than GCC. In combination, I'd like to have DLL versions of useful Unix libraries, such as NCurses and GNUregex, again where they make sense and there is no satisfactory Windows equivalent. Perl5: Looks like there's already a port of this, so I'll just have a pointer from my Web page to it. Netutils: NT/Win95 have a pretty good set, e.g. Ping, Traceroute, netstat, so if there are any useful missing ones (e.g. Nslookup) I'd like to provide those. If I have time, it would be really cool to do, e.g. an SMTP or NNTP server, but I think there are already alternatives in these areas (of course they are commercial :-) Shells: I'd like to see tcsh (primarily for interactive use) and bash (for interactive use and shell scripts). They should be able to spawn Win32, Win16, and DOS programs just like CMD.EXE.. There are more, but you get the idea.. I want to concentrate on programs that a) are generally considered useful (or in the case of games, fun), b) have no practical Windows equivalent. I welcome any early comments, and will post the URL to a Web version of this when it becomes available. Thanks! ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 13:21:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA17548 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:21:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA17540 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:21:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA12000 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:21:11 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA21475 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:21:11 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id WAA01035 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:07:27 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602262107.WAA01035@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: as(1) patch & dis To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:07:26 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199602261321.SAA10862@hq.icb.chel.su> from "Serge A. Babkin" at Feb 26, 96 06:21:15 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Serge A. Babkin wrote: > BTW, for fixing this bug :-) I have written a 386 disassembler. It's alpha > quality yet but already useful. I think any people who wants to > reengineer some "object-only" BSDi code will find it useful too. So > how about to commit it ? Why not make it a port/package? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 13:33:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA18817 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:33:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from cps201.cps.cmich.edu (cps201.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.20.201]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA18808 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:33:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from cps201 (cps201.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.20.201]) by cps201.cps.cmich.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA19662; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 16:31:20 -0500 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 16:31:18 -0500 (EST) From: Mail Archive X-Sender: archive@cps201 To: "Christoph P. Kukulies" cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD supercomputing In-Reply-To: <199602231044.LAA20191@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Fri, 23 Feb 1996, Christoph P. Kukulies wrote: > - Numbercrunching (FP issues) When is comes to FP the SGI R10000 machines are the fastest out there. However if you are looking for something that can handle that number of users linux is out of the question. We run 2000 users on a FreeBSD without even flinching or 100MBit ethernet that is averaging about 60-70Mbit average. Under linux these were doing about 10-20Mbit average.... Just a statistic :) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 13:34:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA18888 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:34:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA18879 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:34:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id PAA16026; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 15:34:06 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602262134.PAA16026@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: IP filtering strawman, comments please. To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 15:34:06 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <12238.825366315@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Feb 26, 96 09:25:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Wow. That's all I have to say! That's very artsy. "divert", what an excellent idea!!! "where a user-mode process can have fun with it"... I nearly split in two when I read that. Show me a Cisco that can automatically analyze and keep statistics about where dropped packets had been coming from!! That would be like an ultimate firewall. I'm proud to be wearing my "Free The Berkeley 4.4" T-shirt today!! Wait. One thing: > Interface matches name > Interface matches IP. IF it is easy to do, "Interface matches type" (i.e. driver type, let's say you want to toss a filter on ALL "ppp" or "sl" devices). I am thinking mainly about trying to easily implement a rule such as: "drop all routing packets coming in via SLIP" which might be mildly trickier to specify using more specific rules. This would only be useful to the ISP community - where 16 or 32 SLIP lines is hardly unusual - but it WOULD be useful to them, if you can easily accomplish it. On the other hand, what you have outlined is very comprehensive as it stands, IMHO. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 13:43:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA19691 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:43:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA19685 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:43:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA05885; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:40:32 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602262140.NAA05885@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/gnu/usr.bin/ld/ldconfig ldconfig.c Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:40:31 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [ OH MY! I'm actually posting to a FreeBSD list! :-) ] On Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:13:50 -0800 (PST) asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) wrote: > * Bring in some of Paul K's fixes for ldconfig from NetBSD-current. > * This solves the problem of being unable to use shared libraries with dots > * in their names before the ".so." code. > > Hmm. So the idea of changing ld so that "ld -lfoo.N" means "major > version N of libfoo" has officially died. Pity, it would have helped > maintain ports that require different versions of shared libraries. > > I'd have opposed this change if it were proposed and discussed, but if > NetBSD already has it this way, I guess it's better if we follow suit > than being incompatible.... One could argue that you could add Yet Another Option Flag to ld(1) separate from -l to specify the major number of the lib. Looking at NetBSD's ld(1) manual page, it looks like -m is free, and somewhat intuitive. Alternatively, you could take it a step further and use -V (not -v, in case someone thinks that means "make the linker verbose" :-) to trigger "library version". I.e. some programs might want a featureset found in a specific _minor_. The command like could be parsed such that a -V affected the next -l, so you could do: ld -o foo foo.o -V 12.2 -lc -V 0.1 -lutil ...etc. However, this begs the question of why ports (I'm assuming you mean 3rd party software) that you compile from source "require different versions of shared libraries". That seems ... rather broken. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: 408.866.1912 NAS: M/S 258-6 Work: 415.604.0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: 415.428.6939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 13:49:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA20163 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:49:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA20157 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:49:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA01029; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:51:08 -0700 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:51:08 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199602262151.OAA01029@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Joe Greco Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Thinkpad 720 problems... In-Reply-To: <199602262025.OAA15857@brasil.moneng.mei.com> References: <199602262025.OAA15857@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Using Nate's floppy, we're still trying to get this Thinkpad 720 running > FreeBSD. I'm trying to debug this from remote :-) > > It gets to the npx0: 387 emulator point and dies. CTRL-ALT-ESC does > nothing, CTRL-ALT-DEL does nothing. No virtual console switches. boot -v > still freezes at npx0:... > > Ideas? Suggestions? What is the 720? I've used the floppy on the 75X series, Bill Pechter has used it on the 365, and I've heard good reports about folks using it on the 701. Is the 720 an MCA machine? Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 13:51:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA20273 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:51:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA20253 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:50:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA21456; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:48:01 -0700 Message-Id: <199602262148.OAA21456@rover.village.org> To: "Serge A. Babkin" Subject: Re: as(1) patch & dis Cc: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans), hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 26 Feb 1996 18:21:15 +0500 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:48:01 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : BTW, for fixing this bug :-) I have written a 386 disassembler. It's alpha : quality yet but already useful. I think any people who wants to : reengineer some "object-only" BSDi code will find it useful too. So : how about to commit it ? You might want to check out binutils. They already have a disassembler in them that is relatively good. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 13:52:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA20371 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:52:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA20295 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:51:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA21467; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:50:30 -0700 Message-Id: <199602262150.OAA21467@rover.village.org> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:16:34 PST Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:50:30 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I use the second CD to expand my disk size. I use it to keep the X11R6 sources on that I have to compile through a shadow tree. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 14:27:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA22610 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:27:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA22600 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:27:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.7.4/8.6.9) id OAA13291; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:26:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:26:32 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602262226.OAA13291@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov CC: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199602262140.NAA05885@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> (message from Jason Thorpe on Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:40:31 -0800) Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/gnu/usr.bin/ld/ldconfig ldconfig.c From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk * One could argue that you could add Yet Another Option Flag to ld(1) * separate from -l to specify the major number of the lib. Looking at * NetBSD's ld(1) manual page, it looks like -m is free, and somewhat * intuitive. The problem is that "minor" also starts with "m".... :> * Alternatively, you could take it a step further and use -V * (not -v, in case someone thinks that means "make the linker verbose" :-) * to trigger "library version". "-V" is already taken in FreeBSD (and according to the man page, it's taken in NetBSD too). -V version Put the given version number into the output shared library (if one is created). Useful to make shared libaries compatible with other operating systems. Eg. SunOS 4.x libraries use version num- ber 3. Defaults to 8. Although I'm not exactly sure why we need this, I've only seen "-o libfoo.so.1.2" type of command lines, so maybe we can take it out. * I.e. some programs might want a featureset * found in a specific _minor_. The command like could be parsed such that * a -V affected the next -l, so you could do: * * ld -o foo foo.o -V 12.2 -lc -V 0.1 -lutil By the way, there should no need for specifying a minor version number, as the major version number would be bumped if there is a change that is backwards-incompatible. (At least that's the rule in FreeBSD -- added functions/bug fixes mean bump minor, deleted functions/changed functionality mean bump major.) Yes, we can still do it this way, I think it would have been much easier and intuitive if we could just append it to -l than adding a new (stateful) flag. * However, this begs the question of why ports (I'm assuming you mean 3rd * party software) that you compile from source "require different versions * of shared libraries". That seems ... rather broken. No, it's perfectly natural. There are tons and tons of software written for tcl-7.3/tk-3.6, and many of them would break if you link them with the newer versions. :) However, if you are talking about system (i.e., non-"ports") shared libraries, I agree, the porter should make the port use only the latest system library. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 14:42:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA23662 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:42:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA23650 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:41:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id XAA15886 ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 23:41:20 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id XAA01243 ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 23:41:19 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.3/keltia-uucp-2.7) id SAA07089; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 18:58:10 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199602261758.SAA07089@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: strange keyboard behavior. (X11) To: lehey.pad@sni.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 18:58:09 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602261736.SAA02227@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from Greg Lehey at "Feb 26, 96 06:33:28 pm" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1688 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL7 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Greg Lehey said: > Does this mean that there are hardware differences between US and > French keyboards (apart from the keycaps, of course?). I know they > have one additional key, but apart from that? Or did the question > relate to the AltGr bindings? The question is all about AltGr. I don't think there are any hardware differences. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #1: Tue Feb 20 01:16:51 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 14:48:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA24087 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:48:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA24078 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:48:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA02866; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 15:41:43 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602262241.PAA02866@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) To: kelly@yarmouth (Sean Kelly) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 15:41:43 -0700 (MST) Cc: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <9602261957.AA17964@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> from "Sean Kelly" at Feb 26, 96 12:57:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > *everything* except the menu bar, which is where you need it (to > indicate that those are active sites and not just labels). The menu bar is conceptually a single button with multiple active areas. So it has a border like you want to indicate it is clickable. > It's impossible to tell at a glance which are the selected or the > deselected buttons in a group of radio or checkbuttons. Does ``out'' > indicate selected or does ``in''? "In". Just like the lids on your drink cups and the punch holes in your election ballots. In addition, Motif 2.0 has the ability to put a "mark" in a selected item as well as shadowing from the upper-left (just like MS-Windows). > The difference between radio and checkbuttons is undersubtle. Radio buttons are round and checkbuttons aren't. In addition, the interface guidelines require you to group-box sets of radio buttons. If you don't, your application is non-conforming. > Finally, the scrollbar sucks: the user comes to understand that > repeated clicking in the trough area goes through pages, so he > happily pages along reading the material when suddenly, clicks > don't work anymore. What happened? The elevator/thumb reached > the cursor, dislodging his train of thought from the tracks of flow. Or the user was clicking in the middle instead of at the bottom (/top) so that the thumb would stop when it cot there (ie: on purpose). 8-). Motif 2.0 has the ability to have an active "page down" area above the down arrow, and another to "page up" below the up arrow. I agree that the location of the arrow buttons on scrollbars is annoying. I would prefer that up and down were adjacent, like NeXTStep, so I don't have to move my mouse as much. The OpenLook scroll-buttons-on-thumb is really, really annoying, since you have to find the thumb each time you want to scroll. > Now, Tcl/Tk is stuck with some of these problems. But it did fix a > few of them: hilighting of active elements when the cursor enters one; > coloring of radio and checkbuttons to indicate selected items, and so > forth. This is possible with Motif, (even 1.x) and does not even violate the visual guidelines. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 15:39:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA27114 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 15:39:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from tribe.com (tribe.com [199.35.172.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA27109 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 15:39:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from archie@localhost) by tribe.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA12634; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 15:39:52 -0800 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 15:39:52 -0800 From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199602262339.PAA12634@tribe.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? In-Reply-To: <1858.825354994@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 26, 96 09:16:34 am Hi, > So the question then naturally arises as to whether this second CD > might not be more usefully populated by something else.. A Lite2 > tree? A copy of Slackware 3.0? The complete "naughty jpeg" > collection from ftp.penet.fi? Just what would you folks like to see? :-) Don't know how feasible this is, but... the idea would be to have the complete mailing list archives, possibly preprocessed for fast searching, plus a keyword search & find & view program... and the interface could be cgi/html (just add a link to /cdrom/websearch under your apache DocumentRoot directory). Also, one really useful thing a CD-ROM can give you is an unhackable firewall machine. By unhackable, I mean you have a computer with a CD-ROM drive and a floppy drive, with a write-protected boot floppy. Then the floppy boots and mounts the CD-ROM. Then if anything goes wrong (evil hackers infiltrate), you just turn the machine off and back on and know that your system has been restored. Of course, now they are already practiced in breaking in... :-) I guess this would be more involved, requiring a special program for building the boot floppy, managing packet filters, etc. Maybe as part of a longer term firewalling project that could co-exist with other uses of disk #2. FWIW, -Archie _______________________________________________________________________________ Archie L. Cobbs, archie@tribe.com * Tribe Computer Works http://www.tribe.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 15:41:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA27383 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 15:41:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA27375 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 15:41:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA03092; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 16:36:02 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602262336.QAA03092@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD ports to NT (was Win32...) To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 16:36:02 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Feb 26, 96 01:08:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Furthermore, since they needed to meet UNIX semantics to > qualify for POSIX.1, these programs don't interact well with native > Windows: having to type / instead of \, case-sensitivity, and > "//D/mydir" instead of "D:\mydir", while traditional for Unix, just seem > awkward in the Windows environment. Actually, you just solved a problem for me; I've been thinking about poinding in some experimental syntax for a couple of things, and the // POSIX escape is just the thing... 8-). The FS call themselves don't care about / vs \ and the directory lookup is case insensitive, so I don't know what you are seeing. > Oh, and of course, these programs don't work under Windows 95... Compliant Win32 programs will run on both systems. > [ ... ] why not port > programs that DON'T have good Windows equivalents, such as sed, awk, > tcsh, fortune, sup, CVS, and the like? CVS is already ported. There is a Windows95 (WIN32) client, and a Windows NT server. > "man": I plan to convert all man and info pages (with the help of Perl > scripts, probably) to .RTF files and from there compile them to Windows > Help files. However, they will retain the same format, and I'd like to > write a wrapper "man" program which would automatically spawn WinHelp > with the appropriate page. Actually, I'd like to see a help file compiler and X and command line readers for BSD. 8-). Something like the SDK's HCW.EXE ("Help Workshop"). 8-). > Shells: I'd like to see tcsh (primarily for interactive use) and bash > (for interactive use and shell scripts). They should be able to spawn > Win32, Win16, and DOS programs just like CMD.EXE.. Shells are hard; specifically, the interface to the DOS virtual machine is a pain. All I can say is "good luck". 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 16:45:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA02511 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 16:45:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA02506 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 16:45:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0trDXo-0009YiC; Mon, 26 Feb 96 16:45 PST Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 16:45:22 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD ports to NT (was Win32...) In-Reply-To: <199602262336.QAA03092@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > The FS call themselves don't care about / vs \ and the directory > lookup is case insensitive, so I don't know what you are seeing. Apparently, you haven't seen the POSIX subsystem of Windows NT. These are NOT Win32 programs, they run in a separate protected subsystem which has its own limited API (basically a subset of "libc") that enforces case sensitivity and / for directory pathnames. It also has no provision for graphics or network calls. The particular POSIX utilities I'm referring to are on the NT 3.51 Resource Kit CD-ROM in a POSIX subdirectory. > > Oh, and of course, these programs don't work under Windows 95... > > Compliant Win32 programs will run on both systems. As I said above, I was referring to POSIX subsystem programs which are NOT Win32. I hope Microsoft realized their mistake with the whole subsystem idea since neither the OS/2 1.x nor POSIX subsystems are very useful, and Win16 and DOS are included inside the Win32 subsystem, so in retrospect, they didn't need subsystems after all! Now, if somebody were to make a MacOS or FreeBSD-binary-emulation subsystem, that would be a different story! :-) > CVS is already ported. There is a Windows95 (WIN32) client, and a > Windows NT server. Good, one less thing for me to do! I'd like to accumulate pointers to existing ports on my Web page, so ideally it'd be a repository of information on integrating Unix utilities into Win32 and vice versa. > Actually, I'd like to see a help file compiler and X and command line > readers for BSD. 8-). > > Something like the SDK's HCW.EXE ("Help Workshop"). 8-). TWIN has its own WinHelp viewer, and Bristol sells a commercial version. Personally, I like the SGML/HTML format for help the best, but it is too inconvenient (not to mention slow!) to start up Netscape within your application just to view online help. That's one of the problems with programming for Unix, there is no standardization for help, even though Motif says every program must have it, they don't say how! :-( > > Shells: I'd like to see tcsh (primarily for interactive use) and bash > > (for interactive use and shell scripts). They should be able to spawn > > Win32, Win16, and DOS programs just like CMD.EXE.. > > Shells are hard; specifically, the interface to the DOS virtual machine > is a pain. All I can say is "good luck". 8-(. I figured as much. If there is source code for any of the CMD.EXE alternatives floating around, I would like to see it. Also, I understand there is the Hamilton csh for Win32, but the demo version is very restricted. By the way, my plan is for these utilities to be free during the Beta test period (possibly they will have a time bomb to encourage people to get the latest version, a la Netscape), then the final version will be non-crippled, reasonably priced, shareware. Of course if you run FreeBSD on your PC, I will be kind enough to waive the shareware fee! :-) ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 17:24:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA04473 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 17:24:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA04459 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 17:24:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA08310; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:51:38 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602270121.LAA08310@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:51:37 +1030 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <1858.825354994@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 26, 96 09:16:34 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying: > > I'm talking about the Walnut Creek CDROM distribution, of course, and > I'm starting to feel like my little "live CD" idea hasn't really > turned out to be such a big hit. Most people aren't even sure how and > when to use it, just judging by the emails I get, and those that do > know what it's for report that they've used it oh, maybe once. I > myself must confess to having used my copy of disk #2 only once, and > that was only to rescue myself by grabbing a copy of ld.so off of it. :-) I've used it for md5'ing stuff that might have been corrupted, but I agree that it's not necessarily a great winner. > So the question then naturally arises as to whether this second CD > might not be more usefully populated by something else.. A Lite2 > tree? A copy of Slackware 3.0? The complete "naughty jpeg" > collection from ftp.penet.fi? Just what would you folks like to see? :-) Two seperate distributions : A single disk for -RELEASEs as before. (Perhaps when the ports/packages get too big, farm them off onto a second disk), and a 'developers supplement' disk, with the 'experimental' stuff, the CVS tree and anything else relevant. So say the 96q2 FreeBSD developer CD might have the CVS tree at its cut date, the latest patches to TWIN, the current PnP spec, a copy of the latest SCSI draft, the newest gcc/etc, current 'ccd' driver... stuff that's relevant to people working on/around FreeBSD, but not to the average user. It'd also get that stuff out of the -RELEASE distributions and keep WC's costs down, which would be a Good Thing too. (Those of us with any sense see WC as the good guys 8) I think 4 a year would not be unreasonable - I'd certainly subscribe if the price was around the same as that of the current -RELEASE subscription. > Jordan -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 17:37:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA06286 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 17:37:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA06277 Mon, 26 Feb 1996 17:37:44 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199602270137.RAA06277@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: my mailer berzerq? To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 17:37:43 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org, j@tcd-dresden.de In-Reply-To: <199602261800.TAA01618@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> from "Christoph Kukulies" at Feb 26, 96 07:00:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Christoph Kukulies wrote: > > Any mail experts out there who can tell me > what might be going on here?. Someone > is complaining that I send duplicate 'From' lines (see below) to > the FreeBSD list(s). Do others see this too? > > > > Message-Id: <199602261356.OAA00848@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> > > > Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) > > > From: Christoph Kukulies > > > From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" > > > To: narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee (Narvi) > > > Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:56:01 +0100 (MET) > > Is it my mailer or is it our special mail forwarding technique > (Joerg, Petzi)? what did you do to your mailer! you really are pumping out two "From" lines: Message-Id: <199602261800.TAA01618@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: my mailer berzerq? To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org (user alias) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 19:00:55 +0100 (MET) From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Cc: j@tcd-dresden.de (user alias) In-Reply-To: <199602261644.BAA02443@mail.tky007.tth.expo96.ad.jp> from "Masafumi NAKANE/=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQ2Y6LDJtSjgbKEI=?=" at Feb 27, 96 01:44:55 am From: Christoph Kukulies Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk check your version of elm. ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 17:43:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA06693 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 17:43:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA06686 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 17:43:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id TAA16322; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 19:42:39 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602270142.TAA16322@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: IPFW - how fast/robust is it ? To: rashid@rk.ios.com (Rashid Karimov) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 19:42:38 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602261615.LAA03858@rk.ios.com> from "Rashid Karimov" at Feb 26, 96 11:15:49 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Hi there folx, > > I'm about to implement some filtering here > on user servers , namely I want to disallow > users to provide any TCP services (bind and > listen on ports above 1024). > > They should be able to use ftp in the passive mode, > so there's no problem there. > > So as I understand I can do it via IPFW mechanism. > The only Q is , since the thing is so deep in the > kernel , how robust and stable it is ? > > How does it affect the networking in the sense of > speed , etc ? I haven't noticed significant performance degradation running a dozen and a half rules on a busy 386DX/40 (T1 router). Stability is impeccable for most things (some features I tried under 2.0.5R had some problems, but the basics are rock solid). The router in question was up over 100 days. That's not to say there isn't a performance penalty, I'm just saying I haven't noticed it if it's there. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 17:47:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA07011 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 17:47:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA07006 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 17:47:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay-2.mail.demon.net (disperse.demon.co.uk [158.152.1.77]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id RAA04689 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 17:46:39 -0800 Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by relay-2.mail.demon.net id ab02534; 26 Feb 96 17:14 GMT Received: from wbsmail.zipmail.co.uk ([194.70.221.1]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id aa08377; 26 Feb 96 17:13 GMT Received: from 192.153.153.24.webfactory.co.uk (kiss.demon.co.uk [158.152.97.57]) by wbsmail.zipmail.co.uk (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA26851 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 17:12:21 GMT Message-Id: <199602261712.RAA26851@wbsmail.zipmail.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Phil Taylor Organization: Lan Systems To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 17:03:57 +0000 Subject: Adaptec RAID Controller. Reply-to: phil@zipmail.co.uk Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have just managed to get on the eval of the new Adaptec all-singing all-dancing Multi-port RAID controller. Looks nice, any it's mine to keep as long as I return the eval form within 60 Days of receiving the card. The 8xxx something I can't remember. Is there any support in FBSD for this card as I would like to use it in a reasonably fault-tolerant machine and if supported, H/W level RAID should be better than the (incomplete ?) software level stuff that people are working on for FBSD. Any info ????? Cheers Phil. /* Phil Taylor (phil@zipmail.co.uk) LAN Systems - LAN/WAN Specialists */ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 18:36:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA11300 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 18:36:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from puli.cisco.com (puli.cisco.com [171.69.1.174]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA11269 Mon, 26 Feb 1996 18:36:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by puli.cisco.com (8.6.8+c/8.6.5) with SMTP id SAA25831; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 18:35:39 -0800 Message-Id: <199602270235.SAA25831@puli.cisco.com> To: julian@freebsd.org, hsu@freebsd.org Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: gratuitous changes to db/hash.c for threadsafe operation? Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 18:35:39 -0800 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone know why the "errno" value in the hash structure was renamed to "error"? This seems to be a gratuitous change that was made to the hash code, and I'd like to reverse it out if no one has a particularly good reason for its existance. You two show up as reviewers of this code, so perhaps you can explain it to me? I've incorporated the latest version of the db code into the csrg branch and would like to bring it into the mainline. I'll preserve these changes if they serve a purpose, but I see none served here after looking at this pretty closely, so my default inclination is to revert the code to match the original author's. Paul From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 18:37:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA11382 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 18:37:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from dreamlabs.dreaming.org (dreamlabs.dreaming.org [198.96.119.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA11343 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 18:36:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mitayai@localhost) by dreamlabs.dreaming.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA19516; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 21:37:00 -0500 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 21:36:59 -0500 (EST) From: Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe To: "Marc G. Fournier" cc: Marc Fournier , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: hrm.. -current probs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:07:19 -0500 (EST) > From: Marc G. Fournier > To: Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe > Cc: Marc Fournier , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: hrm.. -current probs? > > On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe wrote: > > > > > Hallo... i am running an existing 2.1.0-RELEASE system, just now finished > > supping over 2.1.0-CURRENT, did a make depend and got the following > > error... i didn't add my config file for sake of brevity, i'll put it up > > on http://www.dreaming.org/~mitayai/kernel/config.html if anyone is > > interested in seeing/critiquing it... > > > > anyone have any ideas? > > > > -Mit > > [snip] > > Sent to the list so that everyone knows it isn't a -current problem... > > My machine, /usr/src/sys: > > news> ls > Makefile gnu miscfs nfs ufs > compile i386 msdosfs pccard vm > conf isofs net pci > ddb kern netinet scsi > dev libkern netipx sys > > > His machine, /usr/src/sys: > > dreamlabs: {3} ls > Makefile conf dev i386 > compile ddb gnu > > > Can we say...oops? :) > * Mitayai blushes deep crimson. Ok, ok, it's a sup-related problem, prolly on my machine. I am re-supping src-sys-current from sup2 now and getting a whole whack of nifty stuff. -Mit ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe at DreamLabs Community Information Network Toronto/Peterborough/Oshawa, Ontario, Canada Web: http://www.dreaming.org/~mitayai IRC: Mitayai Email: mitayai@dreaming.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 18:40:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA11882 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 18:40:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA11876 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 18:40:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id UAA16442; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 20:40:06 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602270240.UAA16442@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Thinkpad 720 problems... To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 20:40:06 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602262151.OAA01029@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Feb 26, 96 02:51:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > What is the 720? I've used the floppy on the 75X series, Bill Pechter > has used it on the 365, and I've heard good reports about folks using it > on the 701. Is the 720 an MCA machine? Nevermind, it's an MCA machine... :-( ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 19:04:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA13446 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 19:04:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA13435 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 19:04:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA09870; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 19:02:52 -0800 (PST) To: invalid opcode cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Narvi , Jake Hamby , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:45:15 PST." Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 19:02:52 -0800 Message-ID: <9868.825390172@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > At which there should have been NO PCI, it should have gone EISA -> > EISA2, with speedup's on the EISA2 bus like they were with PCI. This way Yep. The EISA consortium, as Paul Vixie likes to say, rolled over without a fight to PCI and this was a Damn Shame. One more iteration on EISA and we'd have gotten a bus that worked AND had a reasonably robust connector. Feh. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 19:12:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA14492 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 19:12:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA14469 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 19:12:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id IAA23547; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:13:19 +0500 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199602270313.IAA23547@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: as(1) patch & dis To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:13:19 +0500 (GMT+0500) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602262107.WAA01035@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Feb 26, 96 10:07:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > As Serge A. Babkin wrote: > > > BTW, for fixing this bug :-) I have written a 386 disassembler. It's alpha > > quality yet but already useful. I think any people who wants to > > reengineer some "object-only" BSDi code will find it useful too. So > > how about to commit it ? > > Why not make it a port/package? > A good idea! Thanks! -SB From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 19:19:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA15188 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 19:19:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA15176 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 19:19:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id IAA23615; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:19:41 +0500 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199602270319.IAA23615@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:19:41 +0500 (GMT+0500) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602270121.LAA08310@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Feb 27, 96 11:51:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying: > > > > I'm talking about the Walnut Creek CDROM distribution, of course, and > > I'm starting to feel like my little "live CD" idea hasn't really > > turned out to be such a big hit. Most people aren't even sure how and > > when to use it, just judging by the emails I get, and those that do > > know what it's for report that they've used it oh, maybe once. I > > myself must confess to having used my copy of disk #2 only once, and > > that was only to rescue myself by grabbing a copy of ld.so off of it. :-) > > I've used it for md5'ing stuff that might have been corrupted, but I > agree that it's not necessarily a great winner. > > > So the question then naturally arises as to whether this second CD > > might not be more usefully populated by something else.. A Lite2 > > tree? A copy of Slackware 3.0? The complete "naughty jpeg" > > collection from ftp.penet.fi? Just what would you folks like to see? :-) > > Two seperate distributions : A single disk for -RELEASEs as before. > (Perhaps when the ports/packages get too big, farm them off onto a second > disk), and a 'developers supplement' disk, with the 'experimental' stuff, > the CVS tree and anything else relevant. I can suggest the CTM -current and -stable "base delta" and deltas upto the time of release too. -SB From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 19:24:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA15746 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 19:24:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA15660 Mon, 26 Feb 1996 19:23:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) id TAA14264; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 19:23:30 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602270323.TAA14264@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: gratuitous changes to db/hash.c for threadsafe operation? To: pst@cisco.com (Paul Traina) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 19:23:29 -0800 (PST) From: "JULIAN Elischer" Cc: julian@freebsd.org, hsu@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602270235.SAA25831@puli.cisco.com> from "Paul Traina" at Feb 26, 96 06:35:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It clashes with the errno in the thread_safe libc which is a MACRO #define errno (*__errno(current_thread)) or something similar this is true in almost every threads package in the world... > > > Does anyone know why the "errno" value in the hash structure was renamed > to "error"? This seems to be a gratuitous change that was made to the > hash code, and I'd like to reverse it out if no one has a particularly > good reason for its existance. > > You two show up as reviewers of this code, so perhaps you can explain > it to me? > > I've incorporated the latest version of the db code into the csrg branch > and would like to bring it into the mainline. I'll preserve these changes > if they serve a purpose, but I see none served here after looking at this > pretty closely, so my default inclination is to revert the code to match > the original author's. > > Paul > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 20:26:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA21429 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 20:26:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay.hp.com (relay.hp.com [15.255.152.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA21415 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 20:26:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from fakir.india.hp.com by relay.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA068685157; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 20:26:04 -0800 Received: from localhost by fakir.india.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA068575446; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:00:46 +0530 Message-Id: <199602270430.AA068575446@fakir.india.hp.com> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Sean Kelly , kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 26 Feb 1996 10:06:47 PST." <5097.825358007@time.cdrom.com> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:00:45 +0530 From: A JOSEPH KOSHY Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <5097.825358007@time.cdrom.com> "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes jkh> FWIW, my opinion of Tk (in pretty much all its various versions in jkh> whatever colors) is that it's the finest GUI development environment jkh> currently available for $0, period. I'm inclined to agree. jkh> [canvas] object is an amazing little hack just in and of itself, ... Its text widget is supposed to be fast and efficient too. jkh> pkg_* tools would definitely be my first clients for such a library, jkh> seeing as I've already been forced to do this myself just to bootstrap jkh> my own efforts. Excellent idea. Having a consistent UI for system admin tasks certainly adds a certain `polish' to the feel of the OS. This is also what reviewers in the trade rags pick on for some unfathomable reason when judging the quality of an OS :). A couple of points: * SCO had a product called Visual Tcl which they used for system admin scripts. From what I know, they had appropriate `back end' programs that would use the appropriate user interface (X, CUI) to interact with the user from the script. * On similar? lines Ousterhout was working on Tk5 which was to be more or less GUI technology independent (the plan was get Win/Motif/etc look and feel from the same Tk script). * Tk does have a GUI based (drag-n-drop) application builder. Its called XF; however I've not used it myself so I can't comment on its utility. Some opinions: I'm not a fan of the Windows look and feel and I don't care if the Windows is already on a gazillion PCs and is some kind of market leader; if that had been enough I would be running Microsoft not FreeBSD. I believe people prefer FreeBSD on the grounds of its excellence in technology. We already have better user interface technology than Win[0-9]*, I think we need to take this further. Using Win32 clones as a base may be a mistake IMO when we already have superior alternatives. Koshy From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 20:30:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA21723 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 20:30:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA21717 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 20:30:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA02587; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 21:31:50 -0700 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 21:31:50 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199602270431.VAA02587@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Joe Greco Cc: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Thinkpad 720 problems... In-Reply-To: <199602270240.UAA16442@brasil.moneng.mei.com> References: <199602262151.OAA01029@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199602270240.UAA16442@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > What is the 720? I've used the floppy on the 75X series, Bill Pechter > > has used it on the 365, and I've heard good reports about folks using it > > on the 701. Is the 720 an MCA machine? > > Nevermind, it's an MCA machine... :-( Sigh... I *hate* it when that happens. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 20:42:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA22708 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 20:42:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA22700 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 20:42:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by agora.rdrop.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0trHEn-000AnrC; Mon, 26 Feb 96 20:42 PST Message-Id: From: garyh@agora.rdrop.com (Gary Hanson) Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? To: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 20:42:09 -0800 (PST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602261831.UAA07327@grumble.grondar.za> from "Mark Murray" at Feb 26, 96 08:31:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > I'm starting to feel like my little "live CD" idea hasn't really > > turned out to be such a big hit. > > On the contrary, the install tools do not use it enough. I was waiting > with baited breath for someone to fix unionfs, allowing a floppy to be > union mounted on top of / - Voila! Full system running off a CD! Interesting, as I just received some junkmail from Red Hat today, touting their fabulous new Linux "live file system CD - run Linux directly from the CD " (or somesuch). > > Most people aren't even sure how and > > when to use it, just judging by the emails I get, and those that do > > know what it's for report that they've used it oh, maybe once. It isn't a solution in search of a problem, it's a solution in search of documentation. I'm sure that it's useful (ie, the mention of making link trees to it for sources), though, er, I haven't used it yet myself. If the uses were documented and perhaps integrated with the install programs, it could be very useful, particularly for those with limited disk space. The live FS CD _is_ useful, but its uses haven't been properly explained in the distribution yet. OTOH, there are lots of things that could be included in the distribution (many good suggestions have been posted already), it's merely a matter of sorting out the priorities. --Gary Hanson From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 21:07:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA24540 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 21:07:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from zip.io.org (root@zip.io.org [198.133.36.80]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA24533 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 21:07:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from taob@localhost) by zip.io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA26183; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 00:06:09 -0500 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 00:06:09 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: SCSI error code 83 and 84, medium errors Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I just started getting these kernel messages today on my 2.1.0R news server. They appear in bunches of five, with the "retries" counter starting at 4, counting down to 1 and ending with "FAILURE". sd8(ncr2:2:0): error code 83 sd8(ncr2:2:0): error code 84 sd8(ncr2:2:0): MEDIUM ERROR info:1af3b csi:73,0,31,0 asc:68,0 sd8(ncr2:2:0): MEDIUM ERROR info:1af3b asc:11,0 Unrecovered read error field replaceable unit: 2 sd8(ncr2:2:0): MEDIUM ERROR info:1af3b asc:14,1 Record not found field replaceable unit: 2 Output of 'scsi -f /dev/sd8 -P 0 -m 1': AWRE (Auto Write Reallocation Enbld): 0 ARRE (Auto Read Reallocation Enbld): 0 TB (Transfer Block): 0 RC (Read Continuous): 0 EER (Enable Early Recovery): 0 PER (Post Error): 0 DTE (Disable Transfer on Error): 0 DCR (Disable Correction): 0 Read Retry Count: 32 Correction Span: 22 Head Offset Count: 0 Data Strobe Offset Count: 0 Write Retry Count: 32 Recovery Time Limit: 65535 I turned on AWRE and ARRE, but the problem persisted. It seems to have gone away after a newfs (I tested it by dd'ing /dev/zero to a file on that partition, filling it up, then reading the file back in). The disk is a Seagate Medallist 1GB SCSI-2 drive, the last drive on the third NCR53c810 controller. Is there anything I should be worried about now? ncr2 rev 2 int a irq 11 on pci0:12 ncr2 waiting for scsi devices to settle (ncr2:0:0): "Quantum XP32150 81HB" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd6(ncr2:0:0): Direct-Access sd6(ncr2:0:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. 2050MB (4199760 512 byte sectors) sd6(ncr2:0:0): with 3907 cyls, 10 heads, and an average 107 sectors/track (ncr2:1:0): "Quantum XP32150 81HB" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd7(ncr2:1:0): Direct-Access sd7(ncr2:1:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. 2050MB (4199760 512 byte sectors) sd7(ncr2:1:0): with 3907 cyls, 10 heads, and an average 107 sectors/track (ncr2:2:0): "SEAGATE ST51080N 0913" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd8(ncr2:2:0): Direct-Access sd8(ncr2:2:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. 1030MB (2109840 512 byte sectors) sd8(ncr2:2:0): with 4826 cyls, 4 heads, and an average 109 sectors/track -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 22:02:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA00184 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:02:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA00177 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:02:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) id WAA14498; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:02:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602270602.WAA14498@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: SCSI error code 83 and 84, medium errors To: taob@io.org (Brian Tao) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:02:09 -0800 (PST) From: "JULIAN Elischer" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at Feb 27, 96 00:06:09 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk The AWRE and ARRE bits only replace a block if it can recover the data. one way of doing this it to write to the block, because the drive figures (correctly) that if you are over-writing the block, the old data doesn't matter and can be considered recovered and deleted.. > > sd8(ncr2:2:0): error code 84 > sd8(ncr2:2:0): MEDIUM ERROR info:1af3b asc:14,1 Record not found field replaceable unit: 2 [...] > have gone away after a newfs (I tested it by dd'ing /dev/zero to a > file on that partition, filling it up, then reading the file back in). > The disk is a Seagate Medallist 1GB SCSI-2 drive, the last drive on > the third NCR53c810 controller. Is there anything I should be > worried about now? > keep a spare drive handy? From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 22:20:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA01209 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:20:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from zip.io.org (zip.io.org [198.133.36.80]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA01200 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:20:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from taob@localhost) by zip.io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA02690; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 01:18:57 -0500 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 01:18:55 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: JULIAN Elischer cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCSI error code 83 and 84, medium errors In-Reply-To: <199602270602.WAA14498@ref.tfs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, JULIAN Elischer wrote: > > > The disk is a Seagate Medallist 1GB SCSI-2 drive, the last drive on > > the third NCR53c810 controller. Is there anything I should be > > worried about now? > > keep a spare drive handy? Yep, got a couple of those lying around... -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 22:22:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA01402 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:22:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA01391 Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:22:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602270622.WAA01391@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: Host localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Philippe Charnier" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: patches In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Feb 1996 08:37:16 +0100." <199602260737.IAA10431@lirmm.lirmm.fr> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:22:33 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Hi, > >You will find enclosed a patch that makes the following changes: > - Makefiles: use install -C instead of cmp -s || install > - Makefiles: use .for/.endfor > - intro.1: add a reference for intro.9 > - handbook: use strip -d instead of strip -x for kernels > - strip: correct usage string (-x was missing) > - install.1: correct typo in install.1 ... >Philippe Charnier charnier@lirmm. Please submit this through gnats (send-pr) as a change request so that it doesn't get lost. Thanks, -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 22:23:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA01455 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:23:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA01370 Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:22:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA14236; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 17:17:44 +1100 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 17:17:44 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199602270617.RAA14236@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: julian@ref.tfs.com, pst@cisco.com Subject: Re: gratuitous changes to db/hash.c for threadsafe operation? Cc: current@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, hsu@FreeBSD.org, julian@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >It clashes with the errno in the thread_safe libc >which is a MACRO >#define errno (*__errno(current_thread)) >or something similar >this is true in almost every threads package in the world... ANSI permits errno to be a macro (to allow thngs like the above), so it shouldn't be used in portable code to mean anything other than the ANSI errno. Similarly for almost all ANSI names, e.g., sin. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 22:29:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA01901 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:29:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA01894 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:29:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.4/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id WAA14375; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:28:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:28:29 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: Greg Lehey cc: Bruce Evans , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Disk perf. with different HDs/Adapt. In-Reply-To: <199602261719.SAA01522@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Greg Lehey wrote: > How about a high-resolution option. For example, > # time dd if=/dev/rsd0a of=/dev/null count=200 bs=64k > 13107200 bytes transferred in 2 secs (6553600 bytes/sec) > 1.92 real 0.01 user 0.05 sys > # time -h dd if=/dev/rsd0a of=/dev/null count=200 bs=64k > 13107200 bytes transferred in 2 secs (6553600 bytes/sec) > 1.920317 real 0.009387 user 0.0512614 sys > Greg How about you just use Bonnie. dd was not intended to be a benchmark utility, I see no reason extending it's output for this. == Chris Layne ============================================================== == coredump@nervosa.com ================= http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 22:29:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA01935 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:29:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA01928 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:29:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA01579; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:28:57 -0800 Message-Id: <199602270628.WAA01579@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: "JULIAN Elischer" cc: taob@io.org (Brian Tao), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCSI error code 83 and 84, medium errors In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:02:09 PST." <199602270602.WAA14498@ref.tfs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:28:56 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> "JULIAN Elischer" said: > The AWRE and ARRE bits only replace a block if it can recover the data. > one way of doing this it to write to the block, because the drive figures > (correctly) that if you are over-writing the block, the old data doesn't > matter and can be considered recovered and deleted.. > > > > > sd8(ncr2:2:0): error code 84 > > sd8(ncr2:2:0): MEDIUM ERROR info:1af3b asc:14,1 Record not found field rep laceable unit: 2 > [...] > > have gone away after a newfs (I tested it by dd'ing /dev/zero to a > > file on that partition, filling it up, then reading the file back in). > > The disk is a Seagate Medallist 1GB SCSI-2 drive, the last drive on > > the third NCR53c810 controller. Is there anything I should be > > worried about now? > > > > keep a spare drive handy? > > Not too long ago I trashed my old scsi disk. Sometimes, disk errors are just an early warning that the drive is going bad. So just like Julian said got a spare drive? Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 22:32:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA02261 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:32:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA02163 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:31:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.4/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id WAA14389; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:31:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:31:38 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? In-Reply-To: <1858.825354994@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Jordan > [now awaiting a flood of mail from people who find ftp.penet.fi doesn't > really exist and want to know the real address.. :-)] I believe, from what you told me earlier, that it's ftp.freebsd.org/pub/users/jkh/jpegs :P == Chris Layne ============================================================== == coredump@nervosa.com ================= http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 22:33:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA02370 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:33:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from zip.io.org (root@zip.io.org [198.133.36.80]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA02359 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:33:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from taob@localhost) by zip.io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA03610; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 01:32:25 -0500 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 01:32:24 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCSI error code 83 and 84, medium errors In-Reply-To: <199602270628.WAA01579@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > Not too long ago I trashed my old scsi disk. Sometimes, disk errors are > just an early warning that the drive is going bad. Gads, I hope not... this drive was part of a shipment of about ten brand-new drives (Quantum 2GB Atlas and Seagate 1GB Medallist). I suppose they are still under warranty, at least. -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 22:37:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA02911 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:37:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA02902 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:37:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.4/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id WAA14414; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:36:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:36:39 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Narvi , Jake Hamby , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... In-Reply-To: <9868.825390172@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > on EISA and we'd have gotten a bus that worked AND had a reasonably > robust connector. Feh. > Jordan Yeah, well at the rate the ibm-pc is going, I'm awaiting another ingenius bus design up there with vlb (heavy sarcasm). Maybe we'll call it Microsoft BUS, the bus that can theoretically go 1gig/sec, but too bad you have nothing that can even approach it, and did we mention you need to buy all new compenents? In the words of at&t: You will! == Chris Layne ============================================================== == coredump@nervosa.com ================= http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 22:41:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA03320 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:41:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA03299 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:41:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.4/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id WAA14428; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:39:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:39:46 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: Joe Greco cc: Nate Williams , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Thinkpad 720 problems... In-Reply-To: <199602270240.UAA16442@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > Nevermind, it's an MCA machine... :-( > ... JG Now there's another smart idea. Almost as good as IBM's DOS. == Chris Layne ============================================================== == coredump@nervosa.com ================= http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 22:42:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA03404 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:42:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from multivac.orthanc.com (root@multivac.orthanc.com [206.12.238.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA03072 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:39:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (lyndon@localhost) by multivac.orthanc.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA11075; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:36:36 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602270636.WAA11075@multivac.orthanc.com> X-Authentication-Warning: multivac.orthanc.com: Host lyndon@localhost didn't use HELO protocol From: Lyndon Nerenberg VE7TCP To: Joe Greco cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IP filtering strawman, comments please. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Feb 1996 15:34:06 CST." <199602262134.PAA16026@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:36:35 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Joe" == Joe Greco writes: >> Interface matches name Interface matches IP. Joe> IF it is easy to do, "Interface matches type" (i.e. driver Joe> type, let's say you want to toss a filter on ALL "ppp" or Joe> "sl" devices). Joe> "drop all routing packets coming in via SLIP" I think what you really want (and what I would like to have) is a "class" mechanism for grouping interfaces. E.g. I have several PPP connections, some of which need full outside access, and some don't. Keying off the link layer protocol isn't fine-grained enough for my purposes. On the other hand, I don't want to see this get bogged down in needless complexity. All in all I like what I'm seeing. I hope to be able to provide a more detailed response to the proposal tomorrow. --lyndon From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 22:44:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA03652 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:44:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA03647 Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:44:28 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602270644.WAA03647@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: Host localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: phil@zipmail.co.uk cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Adaptec RAID Controller. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Feb 1996 17:03:57 GMT." <199602261712.RAA26851@wbsmail.zipmail.co.uk> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:44:27 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >I have just managed to get on the eval of the new Adaptec all-singing >all-dancing Multi-port RAID controller. > >Looks nice, any it's mine to keep as long as I return the eval form >within 60 Days of receiving the card. > >The 8xxx something I can't remember. Its a 3985. I can implement 3 channel SCSi, Raid 0,1,0/1, but not 5 until they release the programming manual for the 7810 DRAM parity buffer chip. I could only do this if I actually had one of the boards here to play with. (I could do 3 channel SCSI without the board, but just haven't had the time to do it yet). >Cheers > >Phil. > > >/* Phil Taylor (phil@zipmail.co.uk) > LAN Systems - LAN/WAN Specialists */ -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 22:49:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA04121 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:49:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA04102 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:49:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA15371; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 17:45:41 +1100 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 17:45:41 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199602270645.RAA15371@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: coredump@nervosa.com, lehey.pad@sni.de Subject: Re: Disk perf. with different HDs/Adapt. Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Greg Lehey wrote: >> How about a high-resolution option. For example, >> # time dd if=/dev/rsd0a of=/dev/null count=200 bs=64k >> 13107200 bytes transferred in 2 secs (6553600 bytes/sec) >> 1.92 real 0.01 user 0.05 sys >> # time -h dd if=/dev/rsd0a of=/dev/null count=200 bs=64k >> 13107200 bytes transferred in 2 secs (6553600 bytes/sec) >> 1.920317 real 0.009387 user 0.0512614 sys >> Greg >How about you just use Bonnie. dd was not intended to be a benchmark >utility, I see no reason extending it's output for this. Bonnie doesn't work on raw disks and isn't always available. dd should report the time accurately if it reports it at all. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 22:59:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA05031 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:59:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA05025 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:58:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA01783; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:58:24 -0800 Message-Id: <199602270658.WAA01783@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Brian Tao cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCSI error code 83 and 84, medium errors In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 27 Feb 1996 01:32:24 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:58:23 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Well, if it is brand new sometimes that is even more of reason to suspect the drive. You can try formatting the drive however the problem may surface later on. I am not a scsi expect however sometimes you may have to reformat the drive with the current controller. This is not really an easy solution . In my case I chose to reformat the disk for it to finally fail a few months later. However on its way to die it cause daily lock ups on my system which I suspected were scsi cabling problems. Okay, the system was running fine with an adaptec 1542cf however I decided to upgrade to an adaptec 2940 scsi controller. Originally, we had problems with the driver so I couldn't tell if I had scsi cabling problems however after Justin cleaned up the driver I started suspecting my hardware. Finally after a month of tearing apart replacing terminators and cables my scsi disk died. With my new scsi drive I have not one single disk related crash. Where as before my system would crash once or twice a day. The morale of the story if you suspect a scsi disk replace it if not take a note so if you get weird scsi bus problems at least you know whom to suspect assuming the usual -- you are sure about your cables and termination. Amancio >>> Brian Tao said: > On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > > > Not too long ago I trashed my old scsi disk. Sometimes, disk errors are > > just an early warning that the drive is going bad. > > Gads, I hope not... this drive was part of a shipment of about ten > brand-new drives (Quantum 2GB Atlas and Seagate 1GB Medallist). I > suppose they are still under warranty, at least. > -- > Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) > Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. > "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 23:16:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA06981 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 23:16:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA06964 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 23:16:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA02021; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:15:07 +0200 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:15:07 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: "Serge A. Babkin" cc: Bruce Evans , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: as(1) patch & dis In-Reply-To: <199602261321.SAA10862@hq.icb.chel.su> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Serge A. Babkin wrote: > Hello! > > I have found a bug in the assembler. It does not understand the > following construction: > > _x: .long 1 > _y: .long 2 > mov %eax,(_y-_x)(%ebx) > ^^^^^^^^ > > (differences as displacements) > > I needed this for my experiments with kernel startup time BIOS calls. I > have fixed this bug. Commit it please if you find this patch enough good. > > BTW, for fixing this bug :-) I have written a 386 disassembler. It's alpha > quality yet but already useful. I think any people who wants to > reengineer some "object-only" BSDi code will find it useful too. So > how about to commit it ? Will it decode only BSDi code? Can it be used to watch the code companies sell on their driver diskettes for SCO? > > Thanks! Sander From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 23:24:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA07775 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 23:24:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA07770 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 23:24:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id IAA24396; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:24:11 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA26031; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:24:05 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.4/8.6.9) id IAA02518; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:01:50 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602270701.IAA02518@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: SCSI error code 83 and 84, medium errors To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:01:49 +0100 (MET) Cc: taob@io.org In-Reply-To: <199602270602.WAA14498@ref.tfs.com> from "JULIAN Elischer" at Feb 26, 96 10:02:09 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As JULIAN Elischer wrote: > > sd8(ncr2:2:0): MEDIUM ERROR info:1af3b asc:14,1 Record not found field replaceable unit: 2 > > the third NCR53c810 controller. Is there anything I should be > > worried about now? > keep a spare drive handy? Backup and reformat. There's a scsiformat(8) now handy in /sbin (thanks to Peter Dufault). Seacrate disk can really be formatted. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 23:26:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA07932 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 23:26:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA07912 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 23:26:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.4/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id XAA14647; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 23:25:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 23:25:29 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: Joe Greco cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Thinkpad 720 problems... In-Reply-To: <199602262025.OAA15857@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > It gets to the npx0: 387 emulator point and dies. CTRL-ALT-ESC does > ... JG Compile a kernel without math emulation. == Chris Layne ============================================================== == coredump@nervosa.com ================= http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 23:32:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA08646 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 23:32:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA08603 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 23:31:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.4/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id XAA14679; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 23:31:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 23:31:46 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: Brandon Gillespie cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Brandon Gillespie wrote: > just do not get rid of /usr/src off CD #2, I find that to be extremely > useful as I dont have to install the entire source tree, but I can still > grab tidbits of os source when needed, and 'lndir /cdrom/usr/src > /usr/src' is also rather handy ;) Yes, I _definetly_ agree with that. == Chris Layne ============================================================== == coredump@nervosa.com ================= http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 26 23:39:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA09561 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 23:39:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA09520 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 1996 23:39:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA02089; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:39:05 +0200 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:39:04 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Jake Hamby , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... In-Reply-To: <5383.825347155@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Why not? Do you really want to say it was just a joke on the > > > manufacturer's part to put *three* VLB slots on the motherboards? > > yes, more or less. > > I think we could just as easily say that it was a (sad) joke on > the manufacturer's part to include *any* VLB slots on the motherboard.. :-) > > VLB was a brief bad dream in between EISA and PCI and is probably best > forgotten. Why am I aguing with everybody these days? Quite strange - still I have to disagree. For quite some time VLB actually was the high speed alternative to the ISA bus. Yes, perhaps it wasn't the best move and the best way to go. But certainly it was a great improvment - it did give the oppurturnity to have high speed cards (where was PCI at that time?). To me (and I think also to a lot of other people) VLB was the thing that brought *high speed* graphics, the ability to have more than one busmaster card in the computer and so on. For me there is yet another point - currently round here the VLB only 486 boards are quite a bit cheaper (yes I know why - that old junk, but still - not that much worser). But should I ever try to buy myself a computer - I'm sad to say it will be something of the kind (I'm only 19, after all). > > Jordan Sander From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 00:04:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA12607 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 00:04:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA12471 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 00:03:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA02176; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:03:36 +0200 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:03:36 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Christoph Kukulies cc: Sean Kelly , kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-Reply-To: <199602261704.SAA01438@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Christoph P. Kukulies wrote: > > > > > > >>>>> "Christoph" == Christoph Kukulies writes: > > > > Christoph> Tcl/Tk has a lot of rough edges. Partially looks ugly > > Christoph> (too broad borders, ugly shades and colors - ok, you > > Christoph> may argue it is customizable). > > > > That's nothing but opinion and doesn't drive the argument. See: I > > think Tcl/Tk looks really nice. And what's so ugly about gray? Hey, > > some of my carpet is gray and my hair'll turn gray some day, too! > > > > Christoph> Show me a good file selector box in Tcl/Tk or a tree > > Christoph> view. Text selection sucks imho. > > > > I'll grant you the file selector, but the text selection? Nope, > > 'fraid not. > > Maybe I'm wrong but last time I used a text selection in a Tcl/Tk app > it didn't behave a la Mac/Smalltalk/Windows - CTRLC-C, CTRL-X, CTRL-V, > Auto replace when selected so you can type into a selection, > selected region appears as 3D-shaded stripes instead of a whole block. Ctrl-C, Ctrl-X, Ctrl-V ? They aren't actually Windows default - some programs use them and some don't. Smalltalk? I think I saw somewhere smalltalk for FreeBSD. Text selection? It is like that until someone pulls himself together and writes another, alternative widget - it's actually much easier with X/TclTk than doing it under Windows (try it out if you don't believe me). And it won't be slow any more if you change some of it into C... > > > Works just fine. Looks real nice, too. :-) > > Nice, maybe for someone who comes from an alphanumerical world and never > saw other GUIs before. You would also declare Motif style GUI > as sufficiently nice, do you? Actually it is sufficient to do the > job but that's it. > > OK, these may be my opinions but I think others my come to similar > conclusions. Tcl/Tk isn't something that knocks you off your socks, > same is Motif. I played with tkWM - pleppedeplepp. Where is an IDE > (Integrated development environment)? I doubt that Tcl/Tk > would develop as the incending force to produce myriads of applications > in a manner Win32 does. Spend a day with a Win32/MSVC++ programmer. > You would want to have this under Unix. > Not convinced: 1) Win32 is a API, *not a language or a program development tool*. 2) Visual programming and microsoft, visual programming and Win32, visual programming and windows are not the same things - (as Windows95 and multimedia are not the same things) you can do as well (at least) with other tools. > -provoke mode off :-) > > > > -- > > Sean Kelly > > NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory, Boulder Colorado USA > > > > TASK: Shoot yourself in the foot. In HyperTalk: Put the first bullet > > of gun into foot left of leg of you. Answer the result. > > > > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 00:07:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA13080 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 00:07:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA13056 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 00:07:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA02192; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:07:55 +0200 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:07:54 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Jake Hamby cc: "'Christoph Kukulies'" , "'invalid opcode'" , "'jehamby@lightside.com'" , "'hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: RE: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-Reply-To: <01BB042E.4636BDE0@hamby1.lightside.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > >A point about which I must disagree... Win32 is not as good. Perhaps it > >will never be (just think about DOS - it *did* become better over the > >time of it's existence). If the things go on as they are now, IMHO > >FreeBSD will have better SMP support than Win32... > > It's VERY popular, though! :-) It has a lot of features from Unix (e.g. > Winsock, memory-mapped files, etc..) and features that Unix will never have > a standard for (e.g. context-sensitive hypertext help, unified printing > system, unified TrueType font system, OLE). Now I agree that, for example, Man? GNU Texinfo? Ever heard about Adobe Type 1? > OpenDoc is superior to OLE, but OLE has been around for several years now, > and OpenDoc is just coming out. The other problem is that you COULD put > all the features I mentioned into an X program (help, printing, fonts, > etc), but you'd have to either buy somebody else's code, or write your own, > and either way you end up spending way more time and/or money, and get a > program which looks very different from others of its kind. > > >Emulating another system is never as good as running in native mode, no > >matter how hard you try. How about making headers and libraries which > >would allow you to compile you win32 code for FreeBSD and X11 with little > >to no changes? It would allow all those shareware people list that their > >products are available for several platrorms, one of which is real unix :) > > As I mentioned, there is ALREADY a toolkit to do this called TWIN, from > Willows software (www.willows.com). You can compile Windows (and soon > Win32) programs to native code using GCC or any other compiler. Already it > is in a much better state than WINE, and it is free for non-commercial > development. This was one big reason for me to decide to learn Win32. > > ---Jake > > Sander From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 00:10:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA13482 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 00:10:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA13393 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 00:09:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id JAA19948 ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:09:41 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id JAA03522 ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:09:40 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.3/keltia-uucp-2.7) id IAA01127; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:52:52 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199602270752.IAA01127@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: my mailer berzerq? To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:52:51 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, j@tcd-dresden.de In-Reply-To: <199602261800.TAA01618@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> from Christoph Kukulies at "Feb 26, 96 07:00:55 pm" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1688 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL7 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk It seems that Christoph Kukulies said: > From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" > From: Christoph Kukulies > Is it my mailer or is it our special mail forwarding technique > (Joerg, Petzi)? Verify that your Elm is compiled with DONT_ADD_FROM (elm -v): Elm Version and Identification Information: Elm 2.4ME+ PL7 (25), of February, 1996 (C) Copyright 1988-1992 USENET Community Trust Based on Elm 2.0, (C) Copyright 1986,1987 Dave Taylor ---------------------------------- Configured Tue Jan 23 22:25:11 MET 1996 ---------------------------------- Use UNIX Mailbox Delimiters and /usr/sbin/sendmail Mail Transport Agent: not MMDF Let the MTA add the From: header: DONT_ADD_FROM [...] -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #1: Tue Feb 20 01:16:51 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 00:15:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA14224 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 00:15:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA14203 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 00:15:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0trKXd-0003vpC; Tue, 27 Feb 96 00:13 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA13340; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:13:42 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Lyndon Nerenberg VE7TCP cc: Joe Greco , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IP filtering strawman, comments please. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:36:35 PST." <199602270636.WAA11075@multivac.orthanc.com> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:13:38 +0100 Message-ID: <13338.825408818@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >>>>> "Joe" == Joe Greco writes: > > >> Interface matches name Interface matches IP. > > Joe> IF it is easy to do, "Interface matches type" (i.e. driver > Joe> type, let's say you want to toss a filter on ALL "ppp" or > Joe> "sl" devices). > > Joe> "drop all routing packets coming in via SLIP" > > I think what you really want (and what I would like to have) is a > "class" mechanism for grouping interfaces. E.g. I have several PPP > connections, some of which need full outside access, and some don't. > Keying off the link layer protocol isn't fine-grained enough for > my purposes. On the other hand, I don't want to see this get bogged > down in needless complexity. It would be (very) easy to make it possible to say deny udp from any to any 520 via ppp* I have no problem with adding support for "DWIM" keywords like deny all >routing< bla bla bla if somebody will only tell me what this translates to. In the case of routing I can see at least: udp:520, icmp redirects, igrp, egp, ... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 00:53:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA18026 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 00:53:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA18012 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 00:53:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA17957 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:52:38 +0100 Message-Id: <199602270852.JAA17957@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: Disk perf. with different HDs/Adapt. To: coredump@nervosa.com (invalid opcode) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 96 9:49:19 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: ; from "invalid opcode" at Feb 26, 96 10:28 pm X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Greg Lehey wrote: >> How about a high-resolution option. For example, >> # time dd if=/dev/rsd0a of=/dev/null count=200 bs=64k >> 13107200 bytes transferred in 2 secs (6553600 bytes/sec) >> 1.92 real 0.01 user 0.05 sys >> # time -h dd if=/dev/rsd0a of=/dev/null count=200 bs=64k >> 13107200 bytes transferred in 2 secs (6553600 bytes/sec) >> 1.920317 real 0.009387 user 0.0512614 sys >> Greg > > How about you just use Bonnie. dd was not intended to be a benchmark > utility, I see no reason extending it's output for this. I think both you and Bruce are missing the point. I'm proposing an option to time(1), not to dd(1). I hope we're agreed that time(1) is intended for measuring times :-) Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 01:33:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA22953 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 01:33:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA22941 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 01:33:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA21415 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:32:49 +0100 Message-Id: <199602270932.KAA21415@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: my mailer berzerq? To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 96 10:29:31 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: <199602270752.IAA01127@keltia.freenix.fr>; from "Ollivier Robert" at Feb 27, 96 8:52 am X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > It seems that Christoph Kukulies said: >> From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" >> From: Christoph Kukulies > >> Is it my mailer or is it our special mail forwarding technique >> (Joerg, Petzi)? > > Verify that your Elm is compiled with DONT_ADD_FROM (elm -v): > > Elm Version and Identification Information: > > Elm 2.4ME+ PL7 (25), of February, 1996 > (C) Copyright 1988-1992 USENET Community Trust > Based on Elm 2.0, (C) Copyright 1986,1987 Dave Taylor > ---------------------------------- > Configured Tue Jan 23 22:25:11 MET 1996 > ---------------------------------- > Use UNIX Mailbox Delimiters and /usr/sbin/sendmail Mail Transport Agent: > not MMDF > Let the MTA add the From: header: DONT_ADD_FROM > [...] Aren't we missing the point here? Christoph said that somebody claimed his messages looked like that. They don't from here, and nobody else has noticed it. I would look at the mail configuration on the recipient's side first. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 01:44:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA24204 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 01:44:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA24047 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 01:43:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA04562; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:42:19 +0100 Message-Id: <199602270942.KAA04562@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) To: narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee (Narvi) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:42:18 +0100 (MET) From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Cc: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, kelly@yarmouth, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Narvi" at Feb 27, 96 10:03:36 am From: Christoph Kukulies Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Christoph P. Kukulies wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> "Christoph" == Christoph Kukulies writes: > > > > > > Christoph> Tcl/Tk has a lot of rough edges. Partially looks ugly > > > Christoph> (too broad borders, ugly shades and colors - ok, you > > > Christoph> may argue it is customizable). > > > > > > That's nothing but opinion and doesn't drive the argument. See: I > > > think Tcl/Tk looks really nice. And what's so ugly about gray? Hey, > > > some of my carpet is gray and my hair'll turn gray some day, too! > > > > > > Christoph> Show me a good file selector box in Tcl/Tk or a tree > > > Christoph> view. Text selection sucks imho. > > > > > > I'll grant you the file selector, but the text selection? Nope, > > > 'fraid not. > > > > Maybe I'm wrong but last time I used a text selection in a Tcl/Tk app > > it didn't behave a la Mac/Smalltalk/Windows - CTRLC-C, CTRL-X, CTRL-V, > > Auto replace when selected so you can type into a selection, > > selected region appears as 3D-shaded stripes instead of a whole block. > > Ctrl-C, Ctrl-X, Ctrl-V ? They aren't actually Windows default - some > programs use them and some don't. Smalltalk? I think I saw somewhere > smalltalk for FreeBSD. Text selection? It is like that until someone Just wanted to express that Ctrl-C, Ctrl-X, Ctrl-V is the de facto standard for text copy,cut, paste (first introduced under Smalltalk and on the Mac, now adopted by nearly any common WP program and in GUI builders, extends for any item, not just text) But that's really not the issue. > pulls himself together and writes another, alternative widget - it's > actually much easier with X/TclTk than doing it under Windows (try it out > if you don't believe me). And it won't be slow any more if you change > some of it into C... That's the point, there is no mandatory style guide. Everything is ad libitum or left to someone to implement and that's a mess. Actually I didn't want to end up in a Tcl/Tk vs. Win32 API flame war or something. And I agree with Jordan that it is currently the best you can get in the unix world for 0$. I just wanted to point out that Win32 is a quasi must to have under FreeBSD, and that soon. > > > > > > Works just fine. Looks real nice, too. :-) > > > > Nice, maybe for someone who comes from an alphanumerical world and never > > saw other GUIs before. You would also declare Motif style GUI > > as sufficiently nice, do you? Actually it is sufficient to do the > > job but that's it. > > > > OK, these may be my opinions but I think others my come to similar > > conclusions. Tcl/Tk isn't something that knocks you off your socks, > > same is Motif. I played with tkWM - pleppedeplepp. Where is an IDE > > (Integrated development environment)? I doubt that Tcl/Tk > > would develop as the incending force to produce myriads of applications > > in a manner Win32 does. Spend a day with a Win32/MSVC++ programmer. > > You would want to have this under Unix. > > > > Not convinced: > > 1) Win32 is a API, *not a language or a program development > tool*. I didn't say that Win32 is a language. As little as TCL is a language would Richard Stallman say :-) But there are powerful IDEs available for Win32. And it would be great to have only one API for every platform. I would even say use Win32 and a Win95 PC for bootstraping FreeBSD to a better GUI and better apps. > 2) Visual programming and microsoft, visual programming and > Win32, visual programming and windows are not the same things > - (as Windows95 and multimedia are not the same things) you > can do as well (at least) with other tools. Did I let appear the impression that I mixed up any of these? > > > > -provoke mode off :-) > > > > > > -- > > > Sean Kelly > > > NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory, Boulder Colorado USA > > > > > > TASK: Shoot yourself in the foot. In HyperTalk: Put the first bullet > > > of gun into foot left of leg of you. Answer the result. > > > > > > > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de > > > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 01:53:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA25364 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 01:53:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA25054 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 01:51:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA22510 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:51:17 +0100 Message-Id: <199602270951.KAA22510@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 96 10:47:58 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: <12150.825365835@critter.tfs.com>; from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Feb 26, 96 9:17 pm X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >> > I'm talking about the Walnut Creek CDROM distribution, of course... >> >> The CVS bits, the mailing list archives, the entire XFree86 sources >> untarred, the most recent GNU tools, comp.sources.unix archives might be >> nice, since most of the sources compile 'out of the box'. >> Copies of most of the relevant Usenet FAQ's for the tools we use (INN, >> CNews, majordomo, TeX, Emacs, etc..) >> >> Nate > > ... and how about a kitchen-sink ? That's included with Emacs. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 02:09:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA27465 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 02:09:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA27449 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 02:09:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA23705 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:08:39 +0100 Message-Id: <199602271008.LAA23705@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? To: garyh@agora.rdrop.com (Gary Hanson) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 96 11:05:23 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: ; from "Gary Hanson" at Feb 26, 96 8:42 pm X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: >>> I'm starting to feel like my little "live CD" idea hasn't really >>> turned out to be such a big hit. >>> Most people aren't even sure how and >>> when to use it, just judging by the emails I get, and those that do >>> know what it's for report that they've used it oh, maybe once. > > It isn't a solution in search of a problem, it's a solution in > search of documentation. > > I'm sure that it's useful (ie, the mention of making link trees to > it for sources), though, er, I haven't used it yet myself. I've used it, and I use it. It works well. > If the uses were documented and perhaps integrated with the > install programs, it could be very useful, particularly for those > with limited disk space. The live FS CD _is_ useful, but its > uses haven't been properly explained in the distribution yet. IMHO, the Live FS CD is the only one we need for the present distribution. The install CD is there only because the installation procedures are still geared towards compressed files copied across the net. There's no reason (apart from a little bit of missing software) not to install from the live file system. In addition, it is a godsend for kernel building. > OTOH, there are lots of things that could be included in the > distribution (many good suggestions have been posted already), > it's merely a matter of sorting out the priorities. What else I'd like to see on CD: the CVS tree and mail archives. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 02:23:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA29112 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 02:23:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA29102 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 02:23:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id FAA03315; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 05:35:09 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199602271035.FAA03315@hda.com> Subject: Tcl/Tk sysinstall (was Re: Win32...) To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 05:35:08 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <5097.825358007@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 26, 96 10:06:47 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Unless something really awesome comes over the horizon, perhaps with > java doing the custom graphics and your "GUI window" really being > somebody's netscape window, well, I think TCL and Tk are the ones to > back. I'm definitely going with this combination for my own work, and > if anything I think that FreeBSD's committment to TCL has been > insufficiently energetic. Even just a "boilerplate" library and TCL > interpreter available with the base system, with all the little "must > have" add-ons already bolted on, would be a great stimulus for a new > and better class of applications. sysinstall (reborn "setup") and the > pkg_* tools would definitely be my first clients for such a library, > seeing as I've already been forced to do this myself just to bootstrap > my own efforts. > Tcl/TK is the best 90% solution I've seen. I've used it a lot lately, including my own fastgraph widget for displaying collected signals. My biggest complaint is the creeping size of my scripts, some of which have ballooned to 1000 lines, and the difficulty to really get everything right which I believe would be more easily done in C. Starting over now I'm sure I'd do it better. The newer TK also addresses some of the comments I've seen on this thread and does a better job without any tweaking. The remote control works great (I have one master control that controls 4 slaves in parallel, still with the option of poking at the slaves when something has to be done specifically to them) and can see where you could do something similar for an install that could upgrade a bunch of machines at once. Too bad "send" support isn't native in tcl as then you could have the clients non-X based. This is a good idea that I hope someone has the time to push further. -- Peter Dufault Real-Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 02:33:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA00493 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 02:33:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA00475 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 02:33:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id FAA03378; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 05:44:51 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199602271044.FAA03378@hda.com> Subject: Re: SCSI error code 83 and 84, medium errors To: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 05:44:51 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, taob@io.org In-Reply-To: <199602270701.IAA02518@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Feb 27, 96 08:01:49 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > sd8(ncr2:2:0): MEDIUM ERROR info:1af3b asc:14,1 Record not found field replaceable unit: 2 > > > > the third NCR53c810 controller. Is there anything I should be > > > worried about now? > > > keep a spare drive handy? > > Backup and reformat. There's a scsiformat(8) now handy in /sbin > (thanks to Peter Dufault). Seacrate disk can really be formatted. (Thanks to Joerg Wunsch, if you ask me). I suggested to Brian off the list that he watch and not worry (yet). He didn't have auto reallocation on, so he was destined to eventually have a similar problem. Of course backing up is a good idea, and if he has any more errors show up I'd look at returning the disk. To check for problems he can disable the reallocation again, and "scrub" the raw drive over night by writing and reading patterns to and from the raw drive, logging any errors. If errors are showing up this will give him the data he needs to insist Seagate take it back. -- Peter Dufault Real-Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 03:47:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA08832 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 03:47:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA08787 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 03:46:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id QAA07983; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 16:45:17 +0500 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199602271145.QAA07983@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: as(1) patch & dis To: narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee (Narvi) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 16:45:16 +0500 (GMT+0500) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Narvi" at Feb 27, 96 09:15:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > BTW, for fixing this bug :-) I have written a 386 disassembler. It's alpha > > quality yet but already useful. I think any people who wants to > > reengineer some "object-only" BSDi code will find it useful too. So > > how about to commit it ? > > Will it decode only BSDi code? Can it be used to watch the code companies > sell on their driver diskettes for SCO? Indeed it was written to decode FreeBSD code :-) but it decodes BSDi (at least 1.1) code wery well too. May be it will be able to decode the Linux code too (with some changes?). SCO drivers can be easily disassembled by dis under SCO. Really, dis is braindamaged and I use dumps of symbol and relocation tables (dis from SCO5 is even more braindamaged, it disassembles some jump addresses wrong). My dis386 for FreeBSD analyses them automatically. So may be some day I would write a COFF version of it. -SB From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 03:52:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA09826 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 03:52:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from whome.planix.com (whome.planix.com [204.29.161.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA09818 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 03:52:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by whome.planix.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #38) id m0trNwQ-00076eC; Tue, 27 Feb 96 06:51 EST Received: by mail.kcis.com (KCIS.COM-5) id GAA01063; Mon Feb 26 06:52:55 1996 Organization: Kendall Communications & Information Services, Toronto, Canada Posted-Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 06:52:55 -0500 (EST) Received-Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 06:52:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 06:52:55 -0500 (EST) From: Jerry Kendall To: Michael Smith cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? In-Reply-To: <199602270121.LAA08310@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Michael Smith wrote: > Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying: > > I think 4 a year would not be unreasonable - I'd certainly subscribe if the > price was around the same as that of the current -RELEASE subscription. > > If the 'RELEASE' had the release, packages, ports, and any other stuff that was 'ready' AND the 'DEVELOPER SUPPLEMENT' had all the cvs, experimental, beta, and any other things/tools that are significant to developers, then the RELEASE could keeps it current price and the supplement could be say, $25, then WC could still make money, the developers could get, if they needed to, all the current things, at the time of pressing, and everyone would be happy. In the above scenerio, the 'release' could be every 6 months, and the supplement could be every 3 months... This would enable the developers time to completely test stuff and at the same time give them a way to ensure that the sources they are working from are all the same.. I hope I made sense here... GIB thoughts SMALL email.. IMO Jerry From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 03:53:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA09856 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 03:53:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA09850 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 03:53:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0trNxh-0003wAC; Tue, 27 Feb 96 03:52 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA13661; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:52:44 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Greg Lehey cc: garyh@agora.rdrop.com (Gary Hanson), hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:05:23 +0700." <199602271008.LAA23705@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:52:43 +0100 Message-ID: <13659.825421963@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > IMHO, the Live FS CD is the only one we need for the present > distribution. The install CD is there only because the installation > procedures are still geared towards compressed files copied across the > net. There's no reason (apart from a little bit of missing software) > not to install from the live file system. It would be MUCH slower. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 03:56:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA10299 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 03:56:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA10191 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 03:56:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA29674 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:55:20 +0100 Message-Id: <199602271155.MAA29674@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 96 12:52:03 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: <13659.825421963@critter.tfs.com>; from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Feb 27, 96 12:52 pm X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >> IMHO, the Live FS CD is the only one we need for the present >> distribution. The install CD is there only because the installation >> procedures are still geared towards compressed files copied across the >> net. There's no reason (apart from a little bit of missing software) >> not to install from the live file system. > It would be MUCH slower. Why? Because the files are all unpacked? Or because of the CD-ROM speed? Does anybody have any figures? Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 04:21:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA14201 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 04:21:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA14196 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 04:21:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0trOPQ-0003vtC; Tue, 27 Feb 96 04:21 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA13712; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:21:36 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Greg Lehey cc: hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:52:03 +0700." <199602271155.MAA29670@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:21:35 +0100 Message-ID: <13710.825423695@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > >> IMHO, the Live FS CD is the only one we need for the present > >> distribution. The install CD is there only because the installation > >> procedures are still geared towards compressed files copied across the > >> net. There's no reason (apart from a little bit of missing software) > >> not to install from the live file system. > > It would be MUCH slower. > > Why? Because the files are all unpacked? Or because of the CD-ROM > speed? Does anybody have any figures? Mostly because of the prohibitive seek times on CDROM. Last I tried it was a factor 7 slower. It's even more now. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 04:27:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA14539 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 04:27:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA14480 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 04:26:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA02817; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:16:04 +0200 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:16:04 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: "Serge A. Babkin" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: as(1) patch & dis In-Reply-To: <199602271145.QAA07983@hq.icb.chel.su> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Serge A. Babkin wrote: > > > > > > BTW, for fixing this bug :-) I have written a 386 disassembler. It's alpha > > > quality yet but already useful. I think any people who wants to > > > reengineer some "object-only" BSDi code will find it useful too. So > > > how about to commit it ? > > > > Will it decode only BSDi code? Can it be used to watch the code companies > > sell on their driver diskettes for SCO? > > Indeed it was written to decode FreeBSD code :-) but it decodes BSDi > (at least 1.1) code wery well too. May be it will be able to decode > the Linux code too (with some changes?). SCO drivers can be easily disassembled > by dis under SCO. Really, dis is braindamaged and I use dumps of > symbol and relocation tables (dis from SCO5 is even more braindamaged, > it disassembles some jump addresses wrong). My dis386 for FreeBSD analyses > them automatically. So may be some day I would write a COFF version of it. > Sad... Where will I get the SCO from... So I wont see what the drivers do to write my own ones... > -SB > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 04:52:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA16601 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 04:52:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA16596 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 04:52:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0trOrv-0003wXC; Tue, 27 Feb 96 04:51 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA13786; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:51:04 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Joe Greco cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IP filtering strawman, comments please. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Feb 1996 15:34:06 CST." <199602262134.PAA16026@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:51:02 +0100 Message-ID: <13784.825425462@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Wow. That's all I have to say! That's very artsy. "divert", what an > excellent idea!!! "where a user-mode process can have fun with it"... I > nearly split in two when I read that. Show me a Cisco that can > automatically analyze and keep statistics about where dropped packets had > been coming from!! That would be like an ultimate firewall. > > I'm proud to be wearing my "Free The Berkeley 4.4" T-shirt today!! > > Wait. One thing: > > > Interface matches name > > Interface matches IP. > > IF it is easy to do, "Interface matches type" (i.e. driver type, let's say > you want to toss a filter on ALL "ppp" or "sl" devices). > > I am thinking mainly about trying to easily implement a rule such as: > > "drop all routing packets coming in via SLIP" I have thought about this, I can see a couple of (non-exclusive) solutions: ... via ppp* interpreted as if_name must be ppp[0-9][0-9]* (for any value of ppp of course, ed* sl* tun* ...) ... via P2P interpreted as if_flags must have POINTTOPOINT set. > which might be mildly trickier to specify using more specific rules. This > would only be useful to the ISP community - where 16 or 32 SLIP lines is > hardly unusual - but it WOULD be useful to them, if you can easily > accomplish it. > > On the other hand, what you have outlined is very comprehensive as it > stands, IMHO. Thanks! -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 06:12:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA20564 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 06:12:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from border.com (ns [199.71.190.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA20553 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 06:12:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by janus.border.com id <20483-1>; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:18:59 -0500 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:11:30 -0500 From: Jerry Kendall To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RAM compression again In-Reply-To: <199602262024.VAA01280@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <96Feb27.091859est.20483-1@janus.border.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Luigi, you are an inspiration to all of us... Taking an idea and running to the lab with it... On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > I have been thinking a little bit on the subject. I have come out > with a relatively simple zero-removal algorithm which compresses > (and decompressed) a 4KB page in about 100us (yes, that's 40MB/s) > on a Pentium 100. > > While the compression ratio is not as high as with gzip, I consistently > get a 2.5 reduction on FreeBSD 2.1R and 1.1.5 (maybe this is an > artifact of the inefficient malloc) and on Alpha/OSF (64-bit > architecture, known not to make a very efficient use of memory). > > More interesting is that some 15-20% of the pages compress to > 64-bytes or less. Thus a very effective RAM-swap area could be > implemented with little cost and additional complexity (with > fixed-size, 64-bytes blocks). > > A description of the compression/decompression algorithm and > its implementation are available from the following URL: > > http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/research.html > > I'd be interested if someone could try it on a more recent system > than 2.1R and report the results. > > Thanks > Luigi > ==================================================================== > Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione > email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa > tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) > fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ > ==================================================================== > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any comments or opinions in this message are my own and may or may not reflect the comments or opinions of my present or previous employers. Jerry Kendall Border Network Technologies Inc. System Software Engineer Tel +1-416-368-7157 ext 303 jerry@border.com Fax +1-416-368-7178 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 06:14:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA20665 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 06:14:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA20655 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 06:14:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jfieber@localhost) by fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA04441; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:14:18 -0500 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:14:17 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber X-Sender: jfieber@fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu To: Jake Hamby cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-Reply-To: <01BB042E.4636BDE0@hamby1.lightside.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > Winsock, memory-mapped files, etc..) and features that Unix will never have > a standard for (e.g. context-sensitive hypertext help, unified printing ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Ahem, ever heard of CDE? Problems of bloatedness aside, it definately does address this. Heck, the biggest volume of the CDE manuals is about providing context-sensitive hypertext help! > system, unified TrueType font system, OLE). Now I agree that, for example, With respect to fonts, that is in the domain of X which already handles bitmap, Adobe, speedo, and I'm not aware of any technical prolems with adding truetype, but what does the application care anyway? Printing is a problem but not without a solution, namely a print server that looks like an X display. Connect to the print server, open a page sized window, draw into and it gets printed. I know of at least one (very influential) unix workstation manufacture going this direction. There will be a few extensions to handle querying the server for possible page geometries and a few other things. I vaguely recall a freely available X print server that generates postscript. I think a large factor in the dismal state of GUIs on unix is the simple fact that many unix users will put up with the most horrendous GUI without complaint. I might go so far as to say they wouldn't know a good GUI if it came up and bit them. Since a good UI is considerably harder to develop than a bad one, why invest in a good one if the users won't even notice? -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ============ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 06:27:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA21522 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 06:27:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA21514 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 06:27:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id IAA17168; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:26:49 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602271426.IAA17168@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: IP filtering strawman, comments please. To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:26:48 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <13784.825425462@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Feb 27, 96 01:51:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Wait. One thing: > > > > > Interface matches name > > > Interface matches IP. > > > > IF it is easy to do, "Interface matches type" (i.e. driver type, let's say > > you want to toss a filter on ALL "ppp" or "sl" devices). > > > > I am thinking mainly about trying to easily implement a rule such as: > > > > "drop all routing packets coming in via SLIP" > > I have thought about this, I can see a couple of (non-exclusive) solutions: > > ... via ppp* > interpreted as if_name must be ppp[0-9][0-9]* (for any value > of ppp of course, ed* sl* tun* ...) > > ... via P2P > interpreted as if_flags must have POINTTOPOINT set. My personal preference would still be for the former. I use PPP for dynamic links, but SLIP for 24/7 connections particularly if there's extra routing that needs to happen. That of course could be considered a personality quirk :-) I have definite ideas about how things should work. ;-) Either is probably quite acceptable, and it is clear that one can get by with neither as well. > > which might be mildly trickier to specify using more specific rules. This > > would only be useful to the ISP community - where 16 or 32 SLIP lines is > > hardly unusual - but it WOULD be useful to them, if you can easily > > accomplish it. > > > > On the other hand, what you have outlined is very comprehensive as it > > stands, IMHO. > > Thanks! No, thank YOU. :-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 06:29:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA21818 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 06:29:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from border.com (ns [199.71.190.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA21739 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 06:29:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by janus.border.com id <20485-2>; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:36:16 -0500 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:28:36 -0500 From: Jerry Kendall To: Peter Dufault Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: xforms maintenance tools (was Re: Tcl/Tk sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <199602271035.FAA03315@hda.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <96Feb27.093616est.20485-2@janus.border.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Peter Dufault wrote: > > Tcl/TK is the best 90% solution I've seen. I've used it a lot > lately, including my own fastgraph widget for displaying collected > signals. My biggest complaint is the creeping size of my scripts, some > of which have ballooned to 1000 lines, and the difficulty to really > get everything right which I believe would be more easily done in C. > Starting over now I'm sure I'd do it better. The newer TK also addresses > some of the comments I've seen on this thread and does a better > job without any tweaking. > I have been working on a diskmaint utility to 'fdisk/disklabel' a newly added drive to FreeBSD. I tried with 'dialog' and found it to be seriously 'limiting'. Gave up on 'dialog'. Then tried to use 'Tcl/Tk' and found that to be to cumbersome. Now I am using the xforms library and the fdesign gui builder... It looks great and works very well. Have decided to write some other utilities once I have finished the 'diskmaint' utility.. With time, I hope to build an entire suite of tools to do large amounts of regular system administration with X. Things I have in mind are :PPP/SLIP, DNS/BIND, user manager(setup, passwords and the like), uucp manager, printer manager, backup/restore tools, etc... Any other tools that can be sugested, commented on, would be gratefull. This is not a promise but merely a 'see if it can be done' type of thing. FWIW. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any comments or opinions in this message are my own and may or may not reflect the comments or opinions of my present or previous employers. Jerry Kendall Border Network Technologies Inc. System Software Engineer Tel +1-416-368-7157 ext 303 jerry@border.com Fax +1-416-368-7178 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 06:31:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA21997 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 06:31:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA21989 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 06:31:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jfieber@localhost) by fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA04470; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:31:27 -0500 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:31:24 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber X-Sender: jfieber@fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu To: Jerry Kendall cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? In-Reply-To: <96Feb26.131751est.20481-2@janus.border.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Jerry Kendall wrote: > FWIW: I think the 'live' CD is great... Just gzip all the files that > are there so that I(and others) can get a files instead of having > to completely reinstall some package... This is a pain when I will > not install over an existing installed package... No! Not compressed! Then I can't use stuff directly off the CD! If it is compressed, it ISN'T a "live" CD anymore. As for other alternates, I think a CVS tree would be Mega Nifty. The mailing list archives (uncompressed) take up about 150meg at the moment. I can definately see some utility in including them. -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ============ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 06:56:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA23726 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 06:56:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.access.digex.net (mail1.access.digex.net [205.197.247.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA23721 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 06:56:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from ugen-tr (ugen-tr.worldbank.org [138.220.101.58]) by mail1.access.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA07277; for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:56:30 -0500 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 96 09:44:37 From: "Ugen J.S.Antsilevich" Subject: RE: IP filtering strawman, comments please. To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-PRIORITY: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: Chameleon 4.00.4, TCP/IP for Windows, NetManage Inc. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Well..sort of comment. Actually i was out of the IP filtering ideas picture for a while, and probably will stay this way if my Real Life [tm] will be the same but here is what i planned and started to do and i presume it is a pretty big change for a current policy of IP filtering so if anyone interested in doing so as a part of FreeBSD or as separate project i will be really happy. 1) We bring a new basic abstraction - instead of filter/rule/firewall entry or whatever-name- you-call-it the connection becomes a basis - at least for TCP/ UDP when posasible. 2) Filtering/routing machine maintains a hash/cache of all (or may be a most used part) of connections with some data regarding this connection flow. 3) Implementationwise i started writing it as a two-dimensional cache in which IP src/dst adresses define X-axe and ports space defines Y space differently for TCP and UDP and missing for IP. Then any connection holds a pointer to all relevant filtering rules which still do exist. 4) New connections coming checked only once agains the rules to find which do match this pattern - i.e. by src/dst adress/port/interface/whatever new criteria will come. Then any packet only checked against this set of rules in case it has specific flag-options settings, actually there could be a default action taken from the rule which applies to most common type of packet for connection. 5) This allows along with simple filtering to filter similar connections in the incoming direction while denying them in outgoing. Filter more efficiently and with greater precision and gain lots of statistics as well as put in different hacks like: - Masquareda certain connections for another IP's /ports/whatever. - Bring certain connections to the user agent for more specific examination. etc... This is all very schematic and primitive but i hope you get the idea. I do not remember a lot of things i planned, right now, i am sure this could be really extended and i do not have any notesfrom when i started thinking about that. Anyway this is my ideas and if anyone likes it i can bring the sources i started working on - there aren't much of them though. C ya. --Ugen From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 07:11:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA24965 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 07:11:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA24959 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 07:11:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id CAA03718; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 02:08:29 +1100 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 02:08:29 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199602271508.CAA03718@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@freebsd.org, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com Subject: Re: Thinkpad 720 problems... Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Using Nate's floppy, we're still trying to get this Thinkpad 720 running >FreeBSD. I'm trying to debug this from remote :-) >It gets to the npx0: 387 emulator point and dies. CTRL-ALT-ESC does >nothing, CTRL-ALT-DEL does nothing. No virtual console switches. boot -v >still freezes at npx0:... If it printed the npx message then npx isn't the problem. The debugger can be entered much earlier by booting with -d. This should work if booting with -c works (-d acts before -c so that you can debug -c). It probably won't work if the keyboard is the problem. Use a serial console to debug keyboard problems. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 07:25:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA26133 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 07:25:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from border.com (ns [199.71.190.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA26126 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 07:25:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by janus.border.com id <20481-1>; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:32:27 -0500 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:24:32 -0500 From: Jerry Kendall To: John Fieber Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <96Feb27.103227est.20481-1@janus.border.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, John Fieber wrote: > > On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Jerry Kendall wrote: > > > FWIW: I think the 'live' CD is great... Just gzip all the files that > > are there so that I(and others) can get a files instead of having > > to completely reinstall some package... This is a pain when I will > > not install over an existing installed package... > > No! Not compressed! Then I can't use stuff directly off the CD! > If it is compressed, it ISN'T a "live" CD anymore. > > -john Why not. If you build your kernel to support 'gzip' type executables, it will run them... Hence, you still have your 'live CD'.. Maybe I am missing something....? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any comments or opinions in this message are my own and may or may not reflect the comments or opinions of my present or previous employers. Jerry Kendall Border Network Technologies Inc. System Software Engineer Tel +1-416-368-7157 ext 303 jerry@border.com Fax +1-416-368-7178 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 07:34:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA26972 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 07:34:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA26960 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 07:33:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jfieber@localhost) by fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA04660; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:33:53 -0500 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:33:53 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber X-Sender: jfieber@fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu To: Jerry Kendall cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? In-Reply-To: <96Feb27.103227est.20481-1@janus.border.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Jerry Kendall wrote: > Why not. If you build your kernel to support 'gzip' type executables, it > will run them... Hence, you still have your 'live CD'.. Maybe I am > missing something....? Yes. You can't compile compressed source code. Its the source code that I don't want to waste precious hard drive space with. -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ============ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 07:57:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA28730 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 07:57:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.ici.ro (ns.ici.ro [192.162.16.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA28503 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 07:54:20 -0800 (PST) From: i93mtb@infocib.ase.ro Received: from infocib.ase.ro by ns.ici.ro; Tue, 27 Feb 96 17:53 GMT Received: by infocib.ase.ro (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA185378; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 17:53:31 +0200 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 17:53:31 +0200 (WET) >From: infocib.ase.ro!i93mtb ("Musat T.Bogdan") To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: HELP ME Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk What is the last virus for windows 95? What type is him ? Pleaze ,send the answer at : i93mtb@infocib.ase.ro My name is MUSAT BOGDAN .I am student at cibernetics in Bucharest. Thank you very much ! Good by ! ( La revedere ! -in romanien ) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 08:24:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA00928 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:24:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com ([165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA00922 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:24:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA02961 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:26:34 -0500 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:26:34 -0500 Message-Id: <199602271626.LAA02961@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: IPFW - how fast/robust is it ? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> Hi there folx, >> >> I'm about to implement some filtering here >> on user servers , namely I want to disallow >> users to provide any TCP services (bind and >> listen on ports above 1024). >> >> They should be able to use ftp in the passive mode, >> so there's no problem there. >> >> So as I understand I can do it via IPFW mechanism. >> The only Q is , since the thing is so deep in the >> kernel , how robust and stable it is ? >> >> How does it affect the networking in the sense of >> speed , etc ? > >I haven't noticed significant performance degradation running a dozen and a >half rules on a busy 386DX/40 (T1 router). Stability is impeccable for most >things (some features I tried under 2.0.5R had some problems, but the basics >are rock solid). The router in question was up over 100 days. > >That's not to say there isn't a performance penalty, I'm just saying I >haven't noticed it if it's there. You won't notice much on a single serial line system...if you're doing local routing and have a lot of rules you will. db From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 08:41:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA02167 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:41:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com ([165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA02162 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:40:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA03003; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:43:14 -0500 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:43:14 -0500 Message-Id: <199602271643.LAA03003@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: IP filtering strawman, comments please. Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Wow. That's all I have to say! That's very artsy. "divert", what an >excellent idea!!! "where a user-mode process can have fun with it"... I >nearly split in two when I read that. Show me a Cisco that can >automatically analyze and keep statistics about where dropped packets had >been coming from!! That would be like an ultimate firewall. > >I'm proud to be wearing my "Free The Berkeley 4.4" T-shirt today!! > >Wait. One thing: > >> Interface matches name >> Interface matches IP. > >IF it is easy to do, "Interface matches type" (i.e. driver type, let's say >you want to toss a filter on ALL "ppp" or "sl" devices). > >I am thinking mainly about trying to easily implement a rule such as: > >"drop all routing packets coming in via SLIP" > >which might be mildly trickier to specify using more specific rules. This >would only be useful to the ISP community - where 16 or 32 SLIP lines is >hardly unusual - but it WOULD be useful to them, if you can easily >accomplish it. > >On the other hand, what you have outlined is very comprehensive as it >stands, IMHO. > >... Joe Our latest stuff does something similar to this on a serial line basis. Its pretty nice...it isolates the filtering overhead, allows you to set different rules for different interfaces, counts and can optionally log info about traffic as well. Its mainly implemented as a priority system but a priority of "discard" has the obvious effect. info at www.etinc.com/bsddata.htm#ABM dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 08:53:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA02918 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:53:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA02910 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:53:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA02678 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:53:39 -0700 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:53:39 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199602271653.JAA02678@trout.sri.MT.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: ZIP file scanning code here Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Path: helena.MT.net!news.sprintlink.net!dns.crocker.com!wizard.pn.com!news.zeitgeist.net!cygnus.com!cygnus.com!not-for-mail From: bothner@cygnus.com (Per Bothner) Newsgroups: comp.lang.java Subject: ANNOUNCE: Free javap and javah replacements (beta) Date: 20 Feb 1996 11:48:49 -0800 Organization: Cygnus Support, Mountain View, CA Lines: 26 Message-ID: <4gd8j1$rt6@rtl.cygnus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: rtl.cygnus.com I have written various Java-.class-file-related functions and programs. The functions include code for scanning .class files and classes.zip. The programs are: jcf-dump: Dis-assemble a .class file. This is mostly done. The main thing missing is printing out debug-information (line number and variable names and type). gjavah: Write out header files from a .class file. This should be useable. See the TODO list at the end of gjavah.c. cc1java: Compile a .class file to assembler, using gcc. This is only a skeleton which does very little so far. jinterp is a non-working skeleton of a Java byte-code interpreter. javaop.def is a table of Java opcodes in a format that can be pre-processed in various useful ways. It is used by both jcf-dump and jinterp, and also will be used by cc1java. The code is available from ftp.cygnus.com in pub/bothner/gjava.tar.gz. -- --Per Bothner Cygnus Support bothner@cygnus.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 08:55:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA03047 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:55:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from horst.bfd.com ([204.160.242.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA03042 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:55:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from harlie.bfd.com (bastion.bfd.com [204.160.242.2]) by horst.bfd.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA15592; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:55:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:55:22 -0800 (PST) From: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" To: Christoph Kukulies cc: Sean Kelly , kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-Reply-To: <199602261704.SAA01438@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Christoph P. Kukulies wrote: > Maybe I'm wrong but last time I used a text selection in a Tcl/Tk app > it didn't behave a la Mac/Smalltalk/Windows - CTRLC-C, CTRL-X, CTRL-V, > Auto replace when selected so you can type into a selection, > selected region appears as 3D-shaded stripes instead of a whole block. Haven't looked at Tk lately, have you? It's closer to what you want, and it's easy to add the rest under tk4.X. Even under Tk 3.6, I wrote a module that did all that, plus unlimited undo and a few other nice things, invokable with a single line that would bind to all text widgets (and entry widgets with a second line), specific text widgets, or could be put into the tcl library to work with ALL text widgets. It's customizability like that that I like. Imagine adding one line to the library and adding spell checking to all text widgets using Tk. Oh, and the library I'm referring to isn't the shared library in C, it's the Tk shared routines written in TCL. There wasn't any interest in it, odly enough, so I haven't bothered to recreate it since I lost it. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 09:04:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA03743 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:04:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA03707 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:04:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA03381 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Tue, 27 Feb 1996 19:55:46 +0300 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Tue, 27 Feb 96 19:55:45 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by ache.dialup.ru (8.7.4/8.7.3) id TAA00730; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 19:44:28 +0300 (MSK) Message-Id: <199602271644.TAA00730@ache.dialup.ru> Subject: Re: Either an xcdplayer or matcd problem... To: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 19:44:27 +0300 (MSK) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Frank Durda IV" at "Feb 25, 96 08:06:00 pm" From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL9 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > 1. Use /dev/rmatcd0a, not /dev/matcd0c. Partition "c" is used only for > reading raw 2352-byte blocks. Unless you want the digital data > from an audio CD, this device isn't particularly useful. /dev/rmatcd0c must be used, if not, it is bug in matcd driver. CD audio don't read anything from CD, but partition 'c' from raw devices traditionally used in all existen players. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 09:12:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA04226 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:12:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from FSL.ORST.EDU (root@FSL.ORST.EDU [128.193.112.105]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA04221 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:12:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from picea.FSL.ORST.EDU (hernanw@picea.FSL.ORST.EDU [128.193.112.3]) by FSL.ORST.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA25250; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:12:05 -0800 Received: (from hernanw@localhost) by picea.FSL.ORST.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9) id JAA12686; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:12:03 -0800 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:11:59 -0800 (PST) From: Wayne Hernandez To: Joerg Wunsch cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Multisession CD-R In-Reply-To: <199602240912.KAA08642@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 24 Feb 1996, J Wunsch wrote: > FreeBSD-current supports CD-Writers, it does also support them as > multi-session CDs (as you could have guessed from my note above :). > The only ``third-party'' software you need is team(1), a multibuffer > utility. You need a fairly recent system, which comes with working > WORM support, along with the utility wormcontrol(8). > > The bad point: your Yamaha is not yet supported, only the Plasmon > RF4100 and HP 4020i. This is simply a matter that one can only > support hardware where one has got access to. > Is this support in the stable branch? I have been waiting for the 4020i to be supported so I could write directly from FreeBSD, since the software that comes with the drive does not seem to allow writing of a pre-mastered image. I have the cvs tree, but the system did not like compiling the kernel. Waynt From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 09:16:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA04558 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:16:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from bacall.lodgenet.com (mail@[205.138.147.242]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA04549 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:16:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mail@localhost) by bacall.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA29105 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:10:09 -0600 Received: from tserv.lodgenet.com(204.124.120.10) by bacall via smap (V1.3) id sma029097; Tue Feb 27 11:09:59 1996 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by tserv.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA23593; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:34:50 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA04292; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:47:03 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199602271647.KAA04292@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Narvi cc: "Serge A. Babkin" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: as(1) patch & dis In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:16:04 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:47:03 -0600 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > Sad... > Where will I get the SCO from... > So I wont see what the drivers do to write my own ones... > Most of the code that you need has already been written, it's part of gdb. I've wanted to rip the disassembly stuff out of gdb and make it stand alone, but haven't found the time (or really needed it that bad, I've got several copies of SCO) gdb already knows how to parse COFFs, so it shouldn't be too bad. Actually, SCO's dis(CP) from 3.2v4.2 runs as well under ibcs2 as on real SCO. Most of the development system does, except for masm, and some other programs that need (use) a vm86 call. anyone know why SCO's syslog implementation needs vm86? > > -SB > > > eric. -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 09:18:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA04692 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:18:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from ham.mics.msu.su (ham.mics.msu.su [158.250.28.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA04666 Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:18:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mics.msu.su (mics.msu.su [158.250.28.65]) by ham.mics.msu.su (8.6.4/8.6.4) with ESMTP id UAA24693; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:18:13 +0300 Received: from MICS/SpoolDir by mics.msu.su (Mercury 1.21); 27 Feb 96 20:18:19 +0300 Received: from SpoolDir by MICS (Mercury 1.21); 27 Feb 96 20:17:05 +0300 From: "Mad Phantom" Organization: Microelectronics Center To: hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:17:03 GMT+3 Subject: FIFO question X-Confirm-Reading-To: "Mad Phantom" X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <1DF27873BE4@mics.msu.su> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi there, I have problems with config. my fifo io card (startech 16650A). If I type "cat /dev/cuaa1" (on other cu* cat write "operation not permitted"..or something like it) and calling modem, I see only trash on screen. "cat /dev/ttyd1" looks like big hole - nothing write back. Does anyone know how can I config my FIFO? Max. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Drogajtcev Maxim Valerievich | System Administrator. Fax: 7 (095) 932 8997 | System Developer. Voice: 7 (095) 939 2307 | Moscow State University, Russia. e-mail: max@mics.msu.su | Microelectronic Center. UUDECODE, MIME, PGP and etc. | ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 09:36:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA06085 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:36:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA06075 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:36:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA12664; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:34:01 -0800 (PST) To: Narvi cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Jake Hamby , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:39:04 +0200." Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:34:01 -0800 Message-ID: <12662.825442441@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Why am I aguing with everybody these days? Quite strange - still I have > to disagree. For quite some time VLB actually was the high speed > alternative to the ISA bus. So was EISA. The point is that we didn't need a VLB bus and we almost certainly didn't need PCI - we just needed to finish making EISA better (wider and faster) and we'd have then seen motherboards with 8 or more *entirely general purpose* slots, not this split bus crap we see now. The decision to kill EISA was a pure marketing one - nobody wanted people to keep their old boards since those were already sold. They wanted everyone to buy new and totally incompatible boards. Besides, anybody who's actually tried just to *plug a VLB board in* knows that VLB was the bus equivalent of the anti-christ. I have a VLB video card (#9) that I had to take the friggin' guide pin off of just because actually screwing it down would cause the board to pop back out of the socket, and my experience was hardly unique. I repeat: Feh. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 09:39:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA06298 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:39:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA06293 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:39:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA12677 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:39:04 -0800 (PST) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: What's going on the second CD for the next version published Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:39:04 -0800 Message-ID: <12675.825442744@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Exactly what was on the last CD (well, updated of course).. Looks like the "live CD" idea wasn't such a bad idea after all, just judging by the sheer number of requests I've received to "KEEP IT THE WAY IT IS, DAMN IT!" :-) And so it shall be.. Jordan P.S. And no, I'm not going to gzip everything - that would destroy most of the utility. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 09:41:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA06554 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:41:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA06536 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:40:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0trTOG-0009Z8C; Tue, 27 Feb 96 09:40 PST Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:40:41 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: Narvi cc: "'Christoph Kukulies'" , "'invalid opcode'" , "'hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: RE: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Narvi wrote: > > It's VERY popular, though! :-) It has a lot of features from Unix (e.g. > > Winsock, memory-mapped files, etc..) and features that Unix will never have > > a standard for (e.g. context-sensitive hypertext help, unified printing > > system, unified TrueType font system, OLE). Now I agree that, for example, > > Man? GNU Texinfo? Ever heard about Adobe Type 1? I said A standard, not many competing standards, but maybe I should qualify myself a little. Sure, Unix has man pages and Texinfo, but can you call them up from within a GUI application (and not in an xterm :-)? As for Adobe Type 1, only a few COMMERCIAL Unixes have the Display Postscript extension in the server, without which you can't do font scaling/rotation/styling very well (see the demo "texteroids" program that comes with Solaris for an example)... ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 09:51:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA07254 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:51:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from puli.cisco.com (puli.cisco.com [171.69.1.174]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA07230 Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:51:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by puli.cisco.com (8.6.8+c/8.6.5) with SMTP id JAA10649; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:50:05 -0800 Message-Id: <199602271750.JAA10649@puli.cisco.com> To: "JULIAN Elischer" Cc: julian@freebsd.org, hsu@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: gratuitous changes to db/hash.c for threadsafe operation? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 26 Feb 1996 19:23:29 PST." <199602270323.TAA14264@ref.tfs.com> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:50:05 -0800 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Damn, yuck. OK, thanks. From: "JULIAN Elischer" Subject: Re: gratuitous changes to db/hash.c for threadsafe operation? It clashes with the errno in the thread_safe libc which is a MACRO #define errno (*__errno(current_thread)) or something similar this is true in almost every threads package in the world... > > > Does anyone know why the "errno" value in the hash structure was renamed > to "error"? This seems to be a gratuitous change that was made to the > hash code, and I'd like to reverse it out if no one has a particularly > good reason for its existance. > > You two show up as reviewers of this code, so perhaps you can explain > it to me? > > I've incorporated the latest version of the db code into the csrg branch > and would like to bring it into the mainline. I'll preserve these changes > if they serve a purpose, but I see none served here after looking at this > pretty closely, so my default inclination is to revert the code to match > the original author's. > > Paul > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 09:53:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA07520 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:53:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA07515 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:53:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0trTaq-0009ZJC; Tue, 27 Feb 96 09:53 PST Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:53:42 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: John Fieber cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, John Fieber wrote: > On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > > > Winsock, memory-mapped files, etc..) and features that Unix will never have > > a standard for (e.g. context-sensitive hypertext help, unified printing > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Ahem, ever heard of CDE? Problems of bloatedness aside, it definately > does address this. Heck, the biggest volume of the CDE manuals is about > providing context-sensitive hypertext help! I had CDE running on my SPARC for about 30 minutes before I trashed it for the regular OpenWindows/fvwm combination I had been running before. One big problem (aside from bloatedness) is that it seems right now to be a shell of what Windows offers, it looks like it has the substance but when you try to, e.g., change your preferences it can't deliver. For example, the "Font" control panel, only has one font, but lets you change the size! The "Sounds" control panel, can only change the pitch, volume, and duration of the beep, and on the Sun X Server, only the duration actually works!! (fault of the X Server, not CDE, but still..) Again, CDE is not a unified standard, just one of many possibilities, and on FreeBSD it'd probably be more expensive to buy a copy than a program like TWIN, which at least lets you write to a popular API for which an IDE with GUI tools exists... > With respect to fonts, that is in the domain of X which already handles > bitmap, Adobe, speedo, and I'm not aware of any technical prolems with > adding truetype, but what does the application care anyway? Printing is a > problem but not without a solution, namely a print server that looks like > an X display. Connect to the print server, open a page sized window, draw > into and it gets printed. I know of at least one (very influential) unix > workstation manufacture going this direction. There will be a few > extensions to handle querying the server for possible page geometries and > a few other things. I vaguely recall a freely available X print server > that generates postscript. That sounds like Windows (e.g. you're making GDI calls to the printer).. When and if that happens, give me a call, but again that is one possible standard. If anything, the standard API for printing is outputting raw ASCII or Postscript and that is a pain in the butt! > I think a large factor in the dismal state of GUIs on unix is the simple > fact that many unix users will put up with the most horrendous GUI without > complaint. I might go so far as to say they wouldn't know a good GUI if > it came up and bit them. Since a good UI is considerably harder to > develop than a bad one, why invest in a good one if the users won't even > notice? I agree, 110%! Come to think of it, the ONLY programs I've seen with a decent GUI (that are available on more than one vendor's flavor of Unix) are Netscape, and MAYBE Emacs. That is if you don't count WINE, WABI, TWIN, and Softwindows (evil grin!) ;-) ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 09:57:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA07842 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:57:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA07833 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:57:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA12731; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:56:09 -0800 (PST) To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: Greg Lehey , garyh@agora.rdrop.com (Gary Hanson), hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers; FreeBSD) Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:52:43 +0100." <13659.825421963@critter.tfs.com> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:56:09 -0800 Message-ID: <12728.825443769@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > IMHO, the Live FS CD is the only one we need for the present > > distribution. The install CD is there only because the installation > > procedures are still geared towards compressed files copied across the > > net. There's no reason (apart from a little bit of missing software) > > not to install from the live file system. > It would be MUCH slower. It would also make the CD far less useful as an installation mechanism for clusters of machines. I know more than a few FTP areas which are directly populated from our CDs. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 10:05:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA08551 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:05:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA08541 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:05:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0trTlp-0009YsC; Tue, 27 Feb 96 10:05 PST Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:04:56 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Narvi , Poul-Henning Kamp , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... In-Reply-To: <12662.825442441@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > So was EISA. The point is that we didn't need a VLB bus and we almost > certainly didn't need PCI - we just needed to finish making EISA > better (wider and faster) and we'd have then seen motherboards with 8 > or more *entirely general purpose* slots, not this split bus crap we > see now. The decision to kill EISA was a pure marketing one - nobody > wanted people to keep their old boards since those were already sold. > They wanted everyone to buy new and totally incompatible boards. Speaking of marketing, EISA was always positioned as the high-end board for SERVERS, so both the motherboard and cards were always more expensive. Only a few high-end desktop machines (e.g. Compaq, which I wouldn't buy for incompatibility reasons alone), came with EISA as standard. This continued to be true throughout VLB and PCI. If boards and cards were AVAILABLE and AFFORDABLE, then I would've bought into EISA like a shot, but it was always positioned as a "server" solution only.. > Besides, anybody who's actually tried just to *plug a VLB board in* > knows that VLB was the bus equivalent of the anti-christ. I have a > VLB video card (#9) that I had to take the friggin' guide pin off of > just because actually screwing it down would cause the board to pop > back out of the socket, and my experience was hardly unique. No, it must've been you. Those super-long cards just popped into my system, I didn't have to rock them back and forth or hear (beep-beep beep-beep-beep-beep) from my AMI BIOS when they weren't plugged in all the way! :-) :-) Actually, I felt like an idiot when a MAC user, of all people, pointed out that I forgot to install the little brass standoffs on my homebrow system (it was hangin' by those little plastic tendons).. Now the VLB cards plugin a little easier, and they're more likely to work, but I know what you mean.. :-) > I repeat: Feh. Well, what they should've done is fix the Zorro bus in the Amiga, and then things would've been perfect. They had AutoConfig since 1986, man... ;-) ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 10:08:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA08929 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:08:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA08920 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:08:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA05119; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:02:16 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602271802.LAA05119@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD ports to NT (was Win32...) To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:02:16 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Feb 26, 96 04:45:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > The FS call themselves don't care about / vs \ and the directory > > lookup is case insensitive, so I don't know what you are seeing. > > Apparently, you haven't seen the POSIX subsystem of Windows NT. These are > NOT Win32 programs, they run in a separate protected subsystem which has > its own limited API (basically a subset of "libc") that enforces case > sensitivity and / for directory pathnames. It also has no provision for > graphics or network calls. The particular POSIX utilities I'm referring > to are on the NT 3.51 Resource Kit CD-ROM in a POSIX subdirectory. Apparently you thought I was referring to the POSIX library rather than the Win32 FS API on which it is built. I was noting that it was a deficiency of the POSIX subsystem, not a deficiency of NT. The 32 bit MKS tools for WinNT/Win95 don't have these deficiencies. > As I said above, I was referring to POSIX subsystem programs which are > NOT Win32. I hope Microsoft realized their mistake with the whole > subsystem idea since neither the OS/2 1.x nor POSIX subsystems are very > useful, and Win16 and DOS are included inside the Win32 subsystem, so > in retrospect, they didn't need subsystems after all! Now, if somebody > were to make a MacOS or FreeBSD-binary-emulation subsystem, that would > be a different story! :-) Linux might be possible, in that it uses a call gate for traps. > > Actually, I'd like to see a help file compiler and X and command line > > readers for BSD. 8-). > > > > Something like the SDK's HCW.EXE ("Help Workshop"). 8-). > > TWIN has its own WinHelp viewer, and Bristol sells a commercial version. > Personally, I like the SGML/HTML format for help the best, but it is too > inconvenient (not to mention slow!) to start up Netscape within your > application just to view online help. That's one of the problems with > programming for Unix, there is no standardization for help, even though > Motif says every program must have it, they don't say how! :-( Yes. That's what I want to see. A standardized help source format, a standard "compiled" help format, and a standard text and X viewer. SGML would really be ideal, actually; there is a need for SGML tools as well (not just HTML tools) that you can give a DTD as part of startup and have it act like HTML or whatever. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 10:09:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA08958 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:09:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA08947 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:09:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id SAA03920; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 18:53:55 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199602271753.SAA03920@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? To: jfieber@indiana.edu (John Fieber) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 18:53:55 +0100 (MET) Cc: jerry@border.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "John Fieber" at Feb 27, 96 10:33:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Jerry Kendall wrote: > > > Why not. If you build your kernel to support 'gzip' type executables, it > > will run them... Hence, you still have your 'live CD'.. Maybe I am > > missing something....? > > Yes. You can't compile compressed source code. Its the source code that > I don't want to waste precious hard drive space with. A call for compressed file systems... Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 10:34:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA10852 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:34:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA10781 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:33:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA03800; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:33:39 +0200 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:33:39 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Jerry Kendall cc: Peter Dufault , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: xforms maintenance tools (was Re: Tcl/Tk sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <96Feb27.093616est.20485-2@janus.border.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Jerry Kendall wrote: > > On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Peter Dufault wrote: > > > > > Tcl/TK is the best 90% solution I've seen. I've used it a lot > > lately, including my own fastgraph widget for displaying collected > > signals. My biggest complaint is the creeping size of my scripts, some > > of which have ballooned to 1000 lines, and the difficulty to really > > get everything right which I believe would be more easily done in C. > > Starting over now I'm sure I'd do it better. The newer TK also addresses > > some of the comments I've seen on this thread and does a better > > job without any tweaking. > > > > I have been working on a diskmaint utility to 'fdisk/disklabel' a newly > added drive to FreeBSD. I tried with 'dialog' and found it to be seriously > 'limiting'. Gave up on 'dialog'. Then tried to use 'Tcl/Tk' and found that > to be to cumbersome. > > Now I am using the xforms library and the fdesign gui builder... It looks > great and works very well. Have decided to write some other utilities > once I have finished the 'diskmaint' utility.. > > With time, I hope to build an entire suite of tools to do large amounts > of regular system administration with X. > > Things I have in mind are :PPP/SLIP, DNS/BIND, user manager(setup, passwords > and the like), uucp manager, printer manager, backup/restore tools, etc... > Any other tools that can be sugested, commented on, would be gratefull. > It seems to me that a common viral infection has crept into the FreeBSD users... You are not the only one thinking on the lines of adding X based system config/maintance utility program > This is not a promise but merely a 'see if it can be done' type of thing. > > FWIW. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Any comments or opinions in this message are my own and may or may not reflect > the comments or opinions of my present or previous employers. > > Jerry Kendall Border Network Technologies Inc. > System Software Engineer Tel +1-416-368-7157 ext 303 > jerry@border.com Fax +1-416-368-7178 > > > Sander From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 10:43:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA11369 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:43:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA11364 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:43:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA12878; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:42:18 -0800 (PST) To: Jerry Kendall cc: Peter Dufault , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: xforms maintenance tools (was Re: Tcl/Tk sysinstall) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:28:36 EST." <96Feb27.093616est.20485-2@janus.border.com> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:42:18 -0800 Message-ID: <12876.825446538@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I have been working on a diskmaint utility to 'fdisk/disklabel' a newly > added drive to FreeBSD. I tried with 'dialog' and found it to be seriously > 'limiting'. Gave up on 'dialog'. Then tried to use 'Tcl/Tk' and found that > to be to cumbersome. The new dialog library (in -current) gives you considerably more flexibility, though I agree that it's still not the best. I was talking to jtc the other day and he mentioned that the new curses has menus and advanced controls - I haven't looked yet, but THAT sounds very promising! > Now I am using the xforms library and the fdesign gui builder... It looks > great and works very well. Have decided to write some other utilities > once I have finished the 'diskmaint' utility.. I just wish it were available in source form.. :-( Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 10:47:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA11647 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:47:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA11628 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:46:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA03838; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:45:25 +0200 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:45:25 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Jake Hamby cc: "'Christoph Kukulies'" , "'invalid opcode'" , "'hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: RE: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Narvi wrote: > > > > It's VERY popular, though! :-) It has a lot of features from Unix (e.g. > > > Winsock, memory-mapped files, etc..) and features that Unix will never have > > > a standard for (e.g. context-sensitive hypertext help, unified printing > > > system, unified TrueType font system, OLE). Now I agree that, for example, > > > > Man? GNU Texinfo? Ever heard about Adobe Type 1? > > I said A standard, not many competing standards, but maybe I should > qualify myself a little. Sure, Unix has man pages and Texinfo, but can > you call them up from within a GUI application (and not in an xterm :-)? I don't think making a X aware Texinfo would be that hard.... > As for Adobe Type 1, only a few COMMERCIAL Unixes have the Display > Postscript extension in the server, without which you can't do font Display Postscript Extension? As far as I remember it's not the Server but hardware - you pass Postscript commands directly to the graphics card... Were there such things widely available for the PCs, XFree86 would support them, I'm pretty sure. > scaling/rotation/styling very well (see the demo "texteroids" program that > comes with Solaris for an example)... > > ---Jake Sander From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 10:49:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA11849 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:49:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA11836 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:49:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA03846; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:47:13 +0200 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:47:13 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: "Eric L. Hernes" cc: "Serge A. Babkin" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: as(1) patch & dis In-Reply-To: <199602271647.KAA04292@jake.lodgenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Eric L. Hernes wrote: > > > > > > Sad... > > Where will I get the SCO from... > > So I wont see what the drivers do to write my own ones... > > > > Most of the code that you need has already been written, it's part > of gdb. I've wanted to rip the disassembly stuff > out of gdb and make it stand alone, but haven't found the time (or > really needed it that bad, I've got several copies of SCO) > gdb already knows how to parse COFFs, so it shouldn't be too bad. > > Actually, SCO's dis(CP) from 3.2v4.2 runs as well under ibcs2 as on > real SCO. Most of the development system does, except for masm, and > some other programs that need (use) a vm86 call. > anyone know why SCO's syslog implementation needs vm86? > So I can examine the interior of an object file? Or am I missing something? Sander > > > -SB > > > > > > > eric. > > -- > erich@lodgenet.com > erich@rrnet.com > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 11:08:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA13445 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:08:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA13438 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:08:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA12980; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:07:50 -0800 (PST) To: "Ugen J.S.Antsilevich" cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IP filtering strawman, comments please. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:44:37." Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:07:50 -0800 Message-ID: <12977.825448070@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > - Masquareda certain connections for another IP's /ports/whatever. If this feature alone were the only fall-out of a firewall redesign project, there would be many hats in the air, I can assure you. I have a good friend in SF myself who's finances only allow the purchase of one IP address, but he has 5 machines on his home ethernet. I've often wished I could tell him that FreeBSD had a solution to his problem (and no, I'm too busy to get involved, thanks - you want to see the new installation in *this* century, yes? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 11:18:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA14265 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:18:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA14215 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:18:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA07330 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:20:06 +0100 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:20:06 +0100 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Message-Id: <199602271920.UAA07330@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: help needed in recovering a disk Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Here is a quick and dirty hack to scan a disk (which has become a victim of the faulty 2.1.0-R boot.flp install). Can any FS expert help me in getting further to retrieve the actual offsets and sizes from the fs structure values? Thanks. --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 11:20:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA14569 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:20:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA14556 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:20:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA07342 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:22:29 +0100 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:22:29 +0100 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Message-Id: <199602271922.UAA07342@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: help needed in recovering a disk Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Here is the program to scan the disk: Originally I used 512 byte reads to scan for disklabel. I had to change it to 2048 ti read in a whole struct fs. ======= disk.c====== #include #include #include #include #include #define DKTYPENAMES #include #include /* */ #define DISKMAGIC ((u_long) 0x82564557) /* The disk magic number */ main(argc,argv) int argc; char **argv; { int i; char *dev; struct fs *f; struct disklabel *dl; struct stat sb; off_t lseek(); off_t block=0; char buf[2048]; off_t end; u_long *l; off_t offset = (off_t) 0; off_t newoffset; int fd, vd, n; if(argc==2) dev=argv[1]; else dev="/dev/rwd0"; printf("sizeof struct fs=%d\n",sizeof(struct fs)); l = (u_long *) buf; f = (struct fs *) buf; dl = (struct disklabel *) buf; if ((fd = open(dev, O_RDONLY, 0)) == -1) fprintf(stderr,"error opening %s\n",dev),exit(1); while(read(fd, buf, 2048)>0) { block+=2048; printf("\r%qd",block);fflush(stdout); if (*l == DISKMAGIC) { printf("\ndisklabel found at offset %qd (%qd MB/%qd)\n", block-2048, (block-2048)/ (off_t) (1024), (block-2048) / 2048); printf("d_type=%d\n%s\nd_npartitions=%d\n", dl->d_type, dl->d_typename, dl->d_npartitions); for (i = 0; i < dl->d_npartitions; i++) { printf("\t%d\t%d\t%d\t%s\n", dl->d_partitions[i].p_size, dl->d_partitions[i].p_offset, dl->d_partitions[i].p_fsize, fstypenames[dl->d_partitions[i].p_fstype]); } } if(f->fs_magic == FS_MAGIC ) printf("\nfs at block # %qd last mounted on %s f->fs_ncyl=%ld\n",(block-2048)/512, f->fs_fsmnt,f->fs_ncyl); } } --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 11:22:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA14726 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:22:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA14705 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:21:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA13048; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:15:37 -0800 (PST) To: i93mtb@infocib.ase.ro cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HELP ME In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 27 Feb 1996 17:53:31 +0200." Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:15:36 -0800 Message-ID: <13045.825448536@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Oh, I just *live* for questions like this. An obscure querant from Romania asks the wrong OS group the wrong question using the wrong gender (something so capriciously destructive as a Windows virus could only be female ;-). Now the internet is provably, beyond any reasonable doubt, too full. Some of you please log out! Jordan > infocib.ase.ro!i93mtb ("Musat T.Bogdan") Writes: > > What is the last virus for windows 95? > > What type is him ? > > Pleaze ,send the answer at : i93mtb@infocib.ase.ro > My name is MUSAT BOGDAN .I am student at cibernetics in Bucharest. > > Thank you very much ! > > Good by ! ( La revedere ! -in romanien ) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 11:35:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA16189 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:35:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA16171 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:35:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA13134; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:30:59 -0800 (PST) To: Jake Hamby cc: Narvi , Poul-Henning Kamp , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:04:56 PST." Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:30:59 -0800 Message-ID: <13132.825449459@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Speaking of marketing, EISA was always positioned as the high-end board > for SERVERS, so both the motherboard and cards were always more > expensive. Only a few high-end desktop machines (e.g. Compaq, which I Well, yes, but that was true really only at the very beginning, when Mylex was king (I know, I had one of their MBs). It wasn't too much longer until you could get a number of clone EISA MBs (and cheaper SCSI controllers) that made EISA very attractive - 2 of my 486 machines are EISA. > system, I didn't have to rock them back and forth or hear (beep-beep > beep-beep-beep-beep) from my AMI BIOS when they weren't plugged in all > the way! :-) :-) Actually, I felt like an idiot when a MAC user, of all I'm just glad that #9 put that little LED on their VLB card that lit up red when it wasn't happy - now I wonder why they did that? :-) > Well, what they should've done is fix the Zorro bus in the Amiga, and > then things would've been perfect. They had AutoConfig since 1986, > man... ;-) I gave my A2500 away last year to someone who actually had the time to use it.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 11:44:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA17447 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:44:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA17311 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:44:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA04023; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 21:43:34 +0200 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 21:43:34 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Jake Hamby cc: John Fieber , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: RE: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, John Fieber wrote: > > > On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > > > > > Winsock, memory-mapped files, etc..) and features that Unix will never have > > > a standard for (e.g. context-sensitive hypertext help, unified printing > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > Ahem, ever heard of CDE? Problems of bloatedness aside, it definately > > does address this. Heck, the biggest volume of the CDE manuals is about > > providing context-sensitive hypertext help! > > I had CDE running on my SPARC for about 30 minutes before I trashed it > for the regular OpenWindows/fvwm combination I had been running before. > One big problem (aside from bloatedness) is that it seems right now to be > a shell of what Windows offers, it looks like it has the substance but > when you try to, e.g., change your preferences it can't deliver. For > example, the "Font" control panel, only has one font, but lets you change > the size! The "Sounds" control panel, can only change the pitch, volume, > and duration of the beep, and on the Sun X Server, only the duration > actually works!! (fault of the X Server, not CDE, but still..) Again, > CDE is not a unified standard, just one of many possibilities, and on > FreeBSD it'd probably be more expensive to buy a copy than a program like > TWIN, which at least lets you write to a popular API for which an IDE with > GUI tools exists... Have you ever actually tried the windows sound control panel? Ever tried it with having only the PC speaker? (Assuming you knew where to look and got the sound driver for the PC speaker). > > > With respect to fonts, that is in the domain of X which already handles > > bitmap, Adobe, speedo, and I'm not aware of any technical prolems with > > adding truetype, but what does the application care anyway? Printing is a > > problem but not without a solution, namely a print server that looks like > > an X display. Connect to the print server, open a page sized window, draw > > into and it gets printed. I know of at least one (very influential) unix > > workstation manufacture going this direction. There will be a few > > extensions to handle querying the server for possible page geometries and > > a few other things. I vaguely recall a freely available X print server > > that generates postscript. > > That sounds like Windows (e.g. you're making GDI calls to the printer).. > When and if that happens, give me a call, but again that is one possible > standard. If anything, the standard API for printing is outputting raw > ASCII or Postscript and that is a pain in the butt! Shut up! Windows was not the thing to start unified printing! Apple did it much earlier! And talking about GDI - from where the hell comes the thact that the same thing, using the same fonts, the same layout prints out a bit different on just slightly different printers (just +- some lines per some pages)? And once more the same question - have you tried it all out? Yes, I know it sounds rude - more ruder all the time - but the picture isn't just that beautiful... :( For example, take the time and read the notes on differernces about the printing code on Win31/Win32. > > > I think a large factor in the dismal state of GUIs on unix is the simple > > fact that many unix users will put up with the most horrendous GUI without > > complaint. I might go so far as to say they wouldn't know a good GUI if > > it came up and bit them. Since a good UI is considerably harder to > > develop than a bad one, why invest in a good one if the users won't even > > notice? > > I agree, 110%! Come to think of it, the ONLY programs I've seen with a > decent GUI (that are available on more than one vendor's flavor of Unix) > are Netscape, and MAYBE Emacs. That is if you don't count WINE, WABI, > TWIN, and Softwindows (evil grin!) ;-) Then you have really seen only a few.... :) > > ---Jake > Grumpy Sander From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 11:57:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA18963 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:57:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from bacall.lodgenet.com (mail@[205.138.147.242]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA18951 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:57:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mail@localhost) by bacall.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA02640 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:51:24 -0600 Received: from tserv.lodgenet.com(204.124.120.10) by bacall via smap (V1.3) id sma002634; Tue Feb 27 13:50:55 1996 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by tserv.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA25391; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:29:51 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA05125; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:42:18 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199602271942.NAA05125@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Narvi cc: "Eric L. Hernes" , "Serge A. Babkin" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: as(1) patch & dis In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:47:13 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:42:18 -0600 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Eric L. Hernes wrote: > > > > Actually, SCO's dis(CP) from 3.2v4.2 runs as well under ibcs2 as on > > real SCO. Most of the development system does, except for masm, and > > some other programs that need (use) a vm86 call. > > anyone know why SCO's syslog implementation needs vm86? > > > > So I can examine the interior of an object file? Or am I missing something? sorry, there were two different subjects in that paragraph, and I can't tell which one you are refering to, it may be my fault. yes you can (or should be able) to use an SCO gdb to disassemble COFF .o's, there is probably a gdb binary on the net somewhere that will run under ibcs2 and disassemble third party Driver.o's (ftp://sosco.sco.com ??). If you can't, it shouldn't be too tough for a driver hacker to scotch tape together the parts from the gdb distribution to do that. secondly, the vm86 system call is most definitely not needed to examine the interior of an object file, unless you're running it under some sort of emulator/debugging environment. What I was referring to here was the fact that we compiled some simple programs that use syslog() under SCO, which work under SCO. These same programs work fine if recompiled under FBSD. The problem arises when you try to run the SCO binary under ibcs2, you get a kernel message something to the effect of ibcs2 vm86(): unimplemented system call. Now my question is what could SCO possibly be doing that needs vm86 functionality in a syslog() implementation? Am *I* missing something? I'd guess that it's just some antique code that they haven't recompiled in a very long time. It was meant as somewhat of a snied comment. ;) > > Sander > eric. -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 12:04:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA19703 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:04:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA19694 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:04:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id MAA15024 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:04:19 -0800 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:04:19 -0800 From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199602272004.MAA15024@kithrup.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: I've made some lpd changes Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk (as some of you know ;)) to support the "ms=" capability in /etc/printcap. For those who don't recognize it, it allows one to say something like lp|local line printer:\ :lp=/dev/cua00:br#9600:\ :ms=opost,onlcr:\ :sd=/var/spool/djet500/raw:hl:\ :mx#0:sb:rs instead of specifying the bits explicitly with :fc#031400:fs#01401: Right now, however, my code just removes support for the fs/fc/xs/xc capabilities. Personally, I do not find that much problem at all ;). However, others might. So I have some alternatives: 1. Ignore it, and let fs/fc/xs/xc die the death they should have died with the rest of the saurians 65 million years ago. 2. Allow one *or* the other to be used -- if fs/fc/xs/xc are used, don't use the ms=, or vice versa. 3. Convert the fs/fc/xs/xc bit patterns to the right things. (This is really simple but tedious, and there would be the question of should it be done before or after the ms= string is processed?) They are listed in my order of preference ;). Comments? Sean. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 12:20:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA21209 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:20:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub.aros.net ([205.164.111.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA21202 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:20:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from terra.aros.net (terra.aros.net [205.164.111.10]) by mailhub.aros.net (8.6.12/Unknown) with ESMTP id NAA02405; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:21:16 -0700 Received: (from angio@localhost) by terra.aros.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA22387; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:20:23 -0700 From: Dave Andersen Message-Id: <199602272020.NAA22387@terra.aros.net> Subject: Re: HELP ME To: i93mtb@infocib.ase.ro (Musat T.Bogdan) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:20:23 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Musat T.Bogdan" at Feb 27, 96 05:53:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Lo and behold, Musat T.Bogdan once said: > > What is the last virus for windows 95? > > What type is him ? > > Pleaze ,send the answer at : i93mtb@infocib.ase.ro > My name is MUSAT BOGDAN .I am student at cibernetics in Bucharest. > > Thank you very much ! > > Good by ! ( La revedere ! -in romanien ) You might wish to consider redirecting your question to the VIRUS-L mailing list. It's a (very!) high volume mailing list dealing specifically with viruses for all platforms. It's moderated, so it may take a bit for your message to get through. The mailing list address is: virus-l@lehigh.edu There are also a *ton* of available virus web pages on the web. McAffe maintains a list of viruses, etc, etc. Search for them at your favorite engine. -Dave Andersen -- angio@aros.net Complete virtual hosting and business-oriented system administration Internet services. (WWW, FTP, email) http://www.aros.net/ http://www.aros.net/about/virtual/ "There are only two industries that refer to thier customers as 'users'." From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 12:32:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA00287 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:32:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.access.digex.net (mail1.access.digex.net [205.197.247.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA00281 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:32:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from ugen-tr (ugen-tr.worldbank.org [138.220.101.58]) by mail1.access.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA00887; for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 15:31:46 -0500 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 96 15:29:03 From: "Ugen J.S.Antsilevich" Subject: Re: IP filtering strawman, comments please. To: "Ugen J.S.Antsilevich" , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , hackers@freebsd.org X-PRIORITY: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: Chameleon 4.00.4, TCP/IP for Windows, NetManage Inc. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:07:50 -0800 "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: >> - Masquareda certain connections for another IP's /ports/whatever. > >If this feature alone were the only fall-out of a firewall redesign >project, there would be many hats in the air, I can assure you. I Damn..so anybody out there got the guts to do this project? I canhelp, i have some starting code and i can continue writing it in a very slow tempo so if anyone wants to really do it - speak up now or forever hold your ..hmm..what do they hold there? --Ugen From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 12:36:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA00792 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:36:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA00769 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:36:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA05650; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:28:39 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602272028.NAA05650@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:28:39 -0700 (MST) Cc: jfieber@indiana.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Feb 27, 96 09:53:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I vaguely recall a freely available X print server > > that generates postscript. > > That sounds like Windows (e.g. you're making GDI calls to the printer).. > When and if that happens, give me a call, but again that is one possible > standard. If anything, the standard API for printing is outputting raw > ASCII or Postscript and that is a pain in the butt! I wrote one of these "X server" printer servers back in 89 for SCO ODT. You define another extension call to the server that says "dump this drawable and all children", and usually point it at the root window. Trivial (ie: all grunt work) hack given some of the virtual server code that exists in the current X11's contrib directory. Personally, I would prefer POSIX printing, though I'd like to see a queue system defined and it layered on top of that instead of literally implementing the POSIX (Athena Palladium) print model directly. This would yield a bunch of API's for print and queue control that could then be embedded in applications instead of making X (GDI-style) calls to another server and then dumping the data to a conventional print system. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 12:42:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA01272 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:42:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA01267 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:42:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA05680; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:34:57 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602272034.NAA05680@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) To: jfieber@indiana.edu (John Fieber) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:34:56 -0700 (MST) Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "John Fieber" at Feb 27, 96 09:14:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > system, unified TrueType font system, OLE). Now I agree that, for example, > > With respect to fonts, that is in the domain of X which already handles > bitmap, Adobe, speedo, and I'm not aware of any technical prolems with > adding truetype, but what does the application care anyway? X is a fixed cell rendering technology; that is, unlike PostScript, glyphs are downloaded to cell-based fonts (or rendered there, in the TrueType case). This is, strictly speaking, incompatible with a large number of non-8-bit ligatured languages (though compatible with CJK glyphs) because of the location of "private use areas" relative to the ligatured languages character sets in the Unicode standard. Unicode is largely "anti-X" in these cases because of an intrinsic bias toward glyph rendering engines using other than fixed-cell techniques (understandable, considering who is behing Unicode). These languages include Sanskrit, Hebrew, Arabic, Tamil, Devengari, and other Indic scripts, etc.. Look no farther than the contrib program "xtamil" for a demonstration of the hoops required. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 12:44:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA01440 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:44:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA01423 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:44:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id MAA14670 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:27:51 -0800 Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id MAA15332; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:18:55 -0800 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:18:55 -0800 From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199602272018.MAA15332@kithrup.com> To: erich@lodgenet.com, narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee Subject: Re: as(1) patch & dis Cc: babkin@hq.icb.chel.su, hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Most of the code that you need has already been written, it's part >of gdb. I've wanted to rip the disassembly stuff >out of gdb and make it stand alone There is no need to do that; you can just use the binutils package, and objdump can disassemble ("objdump -d "). >Actually, SCO's dis(CP) from 3.2v4.2 runs as well under ibcs2 as on >real SCO. Most of the development system does, except for masm, and >some other programs that need (use) a vm86 call. >anyone know why SCO's syslog implementation needs vm86? How... bizarre. Are you sure it's not sysi86? Sean. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 12:44:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA01448 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:44:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA01425 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:44:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id MAA14667 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:27:26 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA05585; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:17:58 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602272017.NAA05585@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:17:58 -0700 (MST) Cc: coredump@nervosa.com, phk@critter.tfs.com, narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9868.825390172@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 26, 96 07:02:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > At which there should have been NO PCI, it should have gone EISA -> > > EISA2, with speedup's on the EISA2 bus like they were with PCI. This way > > Yep. The EISA consortium, as Paul Vixie likes to say, rolled over > without a fight to PCI and this was a Damn Shame. One more iteration > on EISA and we'd have gotten a bus that worked AND had a reasonably > robust connector. Feh. EISA would have had to have changed significantly, and a lot of cards would have become useless as a result. Specifically, the per slot memory area was not fixed and not determinable without a real mode BIOS call. The other problem with EISA is that it was still possible to plug ISA cards in at all. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 12:50:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA02005 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:50:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA01999 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:50:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA05704; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:39:20 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602272039.NAA05704@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) To: koshy@india.hp.com (A JOSEPH KOSHY) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:39:19 -0700 (MST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, kelly@yarmouth, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602270430.AA068575446@fakir.india.hp.com> from "A JOSEPH KOSHY" at Feb 27, 96 10:00:45 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > * SCO had a product called Visual Tcl which they used for system admin > scripts. From what I know, they had appropriate `back end' programs > that would use the appropriate user interface (X, CUI) to interact > with the user from the script. I'd suggest wksh instead. There is now a book on it, and sample scripts exist on the AT&T FTP site and provide sufficient information about the grammer to allow you to implement most of the necessary code. Personally I'm not that impressed with interpreted GUI environments. VC++ applications start on the order of 5-10 times faster than VBASIC apps, even when using the same DLL's and OCX's. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 12:58:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA02607 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:58:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA02602 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:58:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA05743; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:49:17 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602272049.NAA05743@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:49:17 -0700 (MST) Cc: jfieber@indiana.edu, jerry@border.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602271753.SAA03920@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from "Luigi Rizzo" at Feb 27, 96 06:53:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Yes. You can't compile compressed source code. Its the source code that > > I don't want to waste precious hard drive space with. > > A call for compressed file systems... I have some example file compression code for the Heidemann framework; John has asked that I not redistribute it. It would be trivial to implement block compression at the device export layer in the devie framework I suggested previously. This is similar to how DriveSpace3 on Win95 exports file systems on hosted drives. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 13:00:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA02763 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:00:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA02747 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:00:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA05760; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:51:27 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602272051.NAA05760@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:51:26 -0700 (MST) Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, phk@critter.tfs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <13132.825449459@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 27, 96 11:30:59 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Well, what they should've done is fix the Zorro bus in the Amiga, and > > then things would've been perfect. They had AutoConfig since 1986, > > man... ;-) > > I gave my A2500 away last year to someone who actually had the time > to use it.. :-) Hope they are porting FreeBSD. BTW, Multibus and QBus had autoconfig way before 1986, FWIW. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 13:06:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA03404 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:06:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from cesium.clock.org (cesium.clock.org [17.255.4.43]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA03380 Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:06:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by cesium.clock.org with SMTP id <5633>; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:06:22 -0800 To: Alexander Seth Jones cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, questions@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: more timeouts In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Feb 1996 08:31:44 PST." <9602231631.AA14380@thoth> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:06:10 -0800 From: Sean Doran Message-Id: <96Feb27.130622pst.5633@cesium.clock.org> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In message <9602231631.AA14380@thoth>, Alexander Seth Jones writes: | I'm also seeing a timeout with my IDE harddrive: | | wd0: interrupt timeout: | wd0: status 58 error 0 | wd0: interrupt timeout: | wd0: status 58 error 1 I'm also seeing alot of these, although the status numbers vary in the 50s. After the "error 1", the 2.1 kernel on the Thinkpad boot.flp that Nate Williams put up for FTP, and the 2.2 snapshot GENERIC kernel both hang on any disk operation. I'd get this hang after random amounts of disk activity. I was thinking that it was due to bad blocks, so I tried bad144 -s -v wd0, which would hang after reporting that it had gotten to 273420. (This is reproducible, even after many bad144 -a commands). There are some bad blocks on the disk; MS-DOS sees them and marks them. Is there any way to translate what, say, scandisk (or other tools) reports as badblocks into something I can feed manually or automagically into bad144? Even if there is a way to do this, is this the source of my problem? Sean. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 13:16:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA04443 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:16:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from bacall.lodgenet.com (mail@[205.138.147.242]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA04434 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:16:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mail@localhost) by bacall.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA03634 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 15:10:46 -0600 Received: from tserv.lodgenet.com(204.124.120.10) by bacall via smap (V1.3) id sma003632; Tue Feb 27 15:10:40 1996 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by tserv.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA26332; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:50:38 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA05508; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 15:03:04 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199602272103.PAA05508@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Sean Eric Fagan cc: erich@lodgenet.com, narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, babkin@hq.icb.chel.su, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: as(1) patch & dis In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:18:55 PST." <199602272018.MAA15332@kithrup.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 15:03:04 -0600 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Most of the code that you need has already been written, it's part > >of gdb. I've wanted to rip the disassembly stuff > >out of gdb and make it stand alone > > There is no need to do that; you can just use the binutils package, and > objdump can disassemble ("objdump -d "). cool, I'll have to look into it. thanks > > >Actually, SCO's dis(CP) from 3.2v4.2 runs as well under ibcs2 as on > >real SCO. Most of the development system does, except for masm, and > >some other programs that need (use) a vm86 call. > >anyone know why SCO's syslog implementation needs vm86? > > How... bizarre. Are you sure it's not sysi86? no, now that you mention it, I'm not sure. In fact now that I look at the man page, I'd bet money that its doing an `RTODC' to get the time off the hardware clock. Add that to the list of about 45 different and incompatible ways to get time. ;-) > > Sean. eric. -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 13:17:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA04547 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:17:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA04527 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:17:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.4/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id NAA16732; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:16:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:16:35 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: Terry Lambert cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , phk@critter.tfs.com, narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... In-Reply-To: <199602272017.NAA05585@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The other problem with EISA is that it was still possible to plug ISA > cards in at all. > Terry Lambert Now how the hell is that a problem? == Chris Layne ============================================================== == coredump@nervosa.com ================= http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 13:38:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA06890 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:38:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from gvr.win.tue.nl (root@gvr.win.tue.nl [131.155.210.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA06881 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:38:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by gvr.win.tue.nl (8.6.10/1.53) id WAA09894; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 22:38:26 +0100 From: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <199602272138.WAA09894@gvr.win.tue.nl> Subject: tunnel device To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 22:38:25 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Can someone give me a sample program using the tunnel device? -Guido From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 14:04:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA09974 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:04:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from ki.net (root@ki.net [142.77.249.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA09555 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:02:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA04551; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 17:00:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 17:00:48 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Guido van Rooij cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: tunnel device In-Reply-To: <199602272138.WAA09894@gvr.win.tue.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Guido van Rooij wrote: > Can someone give me a sample program using the tunnel device? > ijppp? Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting System | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, Administrator | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://www.ki.net | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 14:22:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA12256 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:22:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from rk.ios.com (rk.ios.com [198.4.75.55]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA12242 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:22:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rashid@localhost) by rk.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA04403 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 17:22:10 -0500 From: Rashid Karimov Message-Id: <199602272222.RAA04403@rk.ios.com> Subject: Severe "free vnode isn't" problem To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 17:22:10 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi there ppl, New server here (P6-200/256Mb RAM) crashed at least 2 times today with this panic message, so I've applied the patch Terry Lambert proposed here ~1-1.5 mos ago: (file vfs_subr.c): > My guess from the -curent code is: > > It's probably most correctly fixed by changing: > > vp == NULL) > To: > vp == NULL || /* list empty*/ > vp->v_usecount) /* queue wrapped*/ > > Or something similar using one of the circular queue macros. Then > remove the stupid: > > if (vp->v_usecount) > panic("free vnode isn't"); System works for an hour now and I wonder if this thing is kosher and whether we have some new knowledge on this problem ? Rashid From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 14:24:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA12402 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:24:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns3.noc.netcom.net (ns3.noc.netcom.net [204.31.1.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA12381 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:23:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from tera.com (tera.tera.com [206.215.142.10]) by ns3.noc.netcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA05328 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:23:26 -0800 Received: from athena.tera.com by tera.com (4.1/SMI-4.0-206) id AA12744; Tue, 27 Feb 96 14:22:59 PST From: kline@tera.com (Gary Kline) Message-Id: <9602272222.AA12744@tera.com> Subject: locale-type sample code wanted.... To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:23:10 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Does anybody in this mailinglist have any samples of code that use the lib/libc/locale functions? I'm trying to figure out how everything fits together and works. I'd like to be able to print some of the foreign character set. So far, not many clues from the locale code and the man pages. If anybody has any example code, would you please send it? Or give me pointers? Thanks in advance.... gary kline From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 14:27:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA12785 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:27:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from foot.cst.com.au (foot.cst.com.au [137.109.64.44]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA12768 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:27:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from tim@localhost) by foot.cst.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.11) id JAA24142; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:26:14 +1100 From: Tim Liddelow Message-Id: <199602272226.JAA24142@foot.cst.com.au> Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? To: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:26:14 +1100 (EST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602261831.UAA07327@grumble.grondar.za> from "Mark Murray" at Feb 26, 96 08:31:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Hmm... > > A Lite2 tree - I'd love it! > CVS tree - I'd love it! > Original tarballs of "things" in the tree like bind, sendmail, all > the gnu stuff that we use or should begin to use (incentives!), taylor > UUCP, und so weiter... > {Net|Open}BSD's CVS trees :-) :-) :-) > Latest Linux kernel sources (WTF) :-) > > M > -- > Mark Murray > 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa > +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 > Finger mark@grondar.za for PGP key > As an avid C++ developer I'd like to see the latest GCC (2.7.x) and libg++ (including the STL). Cheers Tim. -- ================================================================================ ! Tim Liddelow (http://www.cst.com.au/~tim) _--_|\ ! ! Software Engineer / Systems Administrator / \ ! ! Creative Software Technologies \_.--.*/ ! ! Phone: +61 3 9587 1444 UNIX, C++/OOP, C, X11, v ! ! email: tim@cst.com.au Networking, WWW, consulting ! !=============================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 14:27:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA12842 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:27:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA12828 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:27:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA06233; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 15:18:05 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602272218.PAA06233@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... To: coredump@nervosa.com (invalid opcode) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 15:18:05 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, phk@critter.tfs.com, narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "invalid opcode" at Feb 27, 96 01:16:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The other problem with EISA is that it was still possible to plug ISA > > cards in at all. > > Terry Lambert > > Now how the hell is that a problem? You can not electrically determine which interrupts and address ranges and DRQ's are used by an ISA card. ISA cards must die for "Plug-N-Play" to ever completely work. Maybe if the new EISA slot refused to let the card on the bus without a configuration description, and then prevented the card from using anything but the bus resources allowed by the description. That type of active slot would be very expensive to implement just to obtain the ability to run $35 cards that are too shitty to allow you to raise the bus clock rate to 133MHz (to match your CPU) anyway. No, ISA cards must die. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 14:36:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA13841 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:36:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA13832 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:36:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA27406; Tue, 27 Feb 96 16:36:15 -0600 Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA01229; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 15:35:49 -0700 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 15:35:49 -0700 Message-Id: <9602272235.AA01229@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> From: Sean Kelly To: sef@kithrup.com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602272004.MAA15024@kithrup.com> (message from Sean Eric Fagan on Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:04:19 -0800) Subject: Re: I've made some lpd changes Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Sean" == Sean Eric Fagan writes: Sean> 1. Ignore it, and let fs/fc/xs/xc die the death they should Sean> have died with the rest of the saurians 65 million years Sean> ago. Yes. I realize it'll break a lot of existing installations, but heck we're in the 90s now and we may as well leave the cruft behind along with Men At Work and Barry Manilow and at least bring the printcap file into the mid-80s or so. Do us a favor, though, and provide a printcap conversion program? Pretty please? Sure, you and I have the bits memorized, but the rest of the world doesn't. :-) After a decision's made, I'll try to have changes to the printing section of the handbook timely. -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory, Boulder Colorado USA My girlfriend's so intense... She woke me up the other night and asked, "If you could tell exactly when and how you were going to die, would you want to know?" "Heck no," I said, "Why?" "Doesn't matter, just go back to sleep..." -- Steven Wright From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 14:36:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA13888 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:36:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA13878 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:36:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from maryann.eng.umd.edu (maryann.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.209]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.7.3/8.7) with ESMTP id RAA05569; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 17:36:26 -0500 (EST) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by maryann.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.7) id RAA30696; Wed, 21 Feb 1996 17:32:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 17:32:25 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@maryann.eng.umd.edu To: Peter Wemm cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Thot word processor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On 21 Feb 1996, Peter Wemm wrote: > > >I have spoken with a friend who runs Linux, and he says if we tell him > >exactly what we want, he can probably get it. He's not a beginner, > >either, but I can't tell him, I know nothing about Linux and I haven't > >tried any Linux emulation myself. If you guys can send me a message > >describing what you need, exactly, well, let's see what he can do, OK? > > BTW: -current's Linux emulator now does QMAGIC just fine, as well as ZMAGIC. > > QMAGIC is ***much*** preferred, as it allows proper shared libraries. > If you use ZMAGIC libraries, you do not share any code between processes > and each copy of the program has a seperate copy in memory. Needless to say, > you run out of memory very quickly with ZMAGIC. > > I use the a.out libraries from the slackware 3.0 distribution. I dont know > if there are newer versions out now. > > -Peter Ok, I have asked my friend about what version he can gen, when you guys tell me that's OK, I'll ask him to give me them. I think he prefers ELF himself, but he's not new at this, so I think he can generate what we ask for. I specified QMAGIC as you explained to me. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 14:37:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA14012 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:37:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA14000 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:37:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from maryann.eng.umd.edu (maryann.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.209]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.7.3/8.7) with ESMTP id RAA05664; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 17:37:28 -0500 (EST) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by maryann.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.7) id LAA07299; Sat, 17 Feb 1996 11:49:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 11:49:55 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@maryann.eng.umd.edu To: John Beukema cc: John Utz , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where is NoName the Latex WYSIWYG? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Fri, 16 Feb 1996, John Beukema wrote: > > ftp://ftp.via.exp.fr/pub/lyx > > jbeukema > > > On Thu, 15 Feb 1996, John Utz wrote: > > > Hi gang; > > > > I had a message that i thought i had saved giving the location of > > NoName/Lyrix, the nifty word processor. > > > > I cant find it anywhere! > > > > It also does not show up as an archie > > > > could some kind soul forward me the patch and location? > > tnx! > > nslookup is telling me ftp.via.exp.fr doesn't exist. Is this some temporary snafu? Could you please double check the address you gave above? ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 14:39:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA14154 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:39:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA14073 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:38:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id XAA09699 ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:38:29 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id XAA07485 ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:38:29 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.3/keltia-uucp-2.7) id XAA00762; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:15:35 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199602272215.XAA00762@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: FreeBSD ports to NT (was Win32...) To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:15:34 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from Jake Hamby at "Feb 26, 96 01:08:05 pm" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1688 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL7 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Jake Hamby said: > My plan is this: Instead of porting programs like cp, cat, mv, or vi, > which all have perfectly good Windows equivalents, slavishly following > Unix semantics, and limiting oneself to Console apps, why not port > programs that DON'T have good Windows equivalents, such as sed, awk, > tcsh, fortune, sup, CVS, and the like? These programs should work with Just have a look at Cygnus' NT development kit which already most of what you need. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #1: Tue Feb 20 01:16:51 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 14:39:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA14189 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:39:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA14169 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:39:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id XAA09707 ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:38:31 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id XAA07491 ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:38:31 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.3/keltia-uucp-2.7) id XAA00787; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:28:30 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199602272228.XAA00787@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: xforms maintenance tools (was Re: Tcl/Tk sysinstall) To: jerry@border.com (Jerry Kendall) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:28:29 +0100 (MET) Cc: dufault@hda.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <96Feb27.093616est.20485-2@janus.border.com> from Jerry Kendall at "Feb 27, 96 09:28:36 am" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1688 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL7 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Jerry Kendall said: > Now I am using the xforms library and the fdesign gui builder... It looks > great and works very well. Have decided to write some other utilities Erm, do you really must use xforms ? Some of the things I saw made with it were awful, especially menus... (tried XFmail). The interest of dialog is that it runs on the console _and_ under X11 (well in an xterm but it is better than only X11). -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #1: Tue Feb 20 01:16:51 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 15:09:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA17552 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 15:09:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it ([131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA17509 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 15:08:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id AAA04556; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 00:00:17 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199602272300.AAA04556@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 00:00:16 +0100 (MET) Cc: jfieber@indiana.edu, jerry@border.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602272049.NAA05743@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Feb 27, 96 01:48:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I have some example file compression code for the Heidemann framework; > John has asked that I not redistribute it. but the problem is not the compression code, there's plenty of it out there, and some is even reasonably fast [and often the same algorithm has been patented several times by different people, *after* an implementation was made available on the net; I was reading the comp.compression FAQ the other night and it's full of this kind of stories! ]. The problem is that compressed blocks have variable size, and handling them efficiently requires (I believe) big changes in the device+fs code. Perhaps log-structured filesystems lend themselves better to this. > It would be trivial to implement block compression at the device export > layer in the devie framework I suggested previously. This is similar while you can certainly make a compressed device look like a regular one, I believe some efficiency is lost, and not only because of compression. The FS layout assumes that adjacent blocks are adjacent (modulo a few bad sectors). But what on a compressed device ? Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 15:14:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA18570 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 15:14:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA18561 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 15:14:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0trYb9-0009Z8C; Tue, 27 Feb 96 15:14 PST Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 15:14:21 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: Terry Lambert cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD ports to NT (was Win32...) In-Reply-To: <199602271802.LAA05119@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > Apparently you thought I was referring to the POSIX library rather than > the Win32 FS API on which it is built. > > I was noting that it was a deficiency of the POSIX subsystem, not a > deficiency of NT. > > The 32 bit MKS tools for WinNT/Win95 don't have these deficiencies. To be 100% accurate, the POSIX subsystem in NT is not built on top of the Win32 API at all but calls the kernel for FS access. In Unix terms it would be like making a libposix.so that did NOT use libc.so but instead replaced libc and did everything via kernel calls. > Linux might be possible, in that it uses a call gate for traps. Interesting.. MacOS would be possible too, using a binary emulation technology like Executor from ARDI... > Yes. That's what I want to see. A standardized help source format, > a standard "compiled" help format, and a standard text and X viewer. Why not just go with Windows? .RTF, .HLP, respectively, and then we need a free .RTF->.HLP converter, and viewers. > SGML would really be ideal, actually; there is a need for SGML tools > as well (not just HTML tools) that you can give a DTD as part of > startup and have it act like HTML or whatever. I don't see too much need for SGML tools, call me old-fashioned, but I typically compose HTML and SGML by using somebody else's document as a template/reference, and typing it into a text editor.. :-) ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 15:18:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA18967 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 15:18:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA18962 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 15:18:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0trYef-0009Z7C; Tue, 27 Feb 96 15:18 PST Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 15:17:55 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: Narvi cc: "'Christoph Kukulies'" , "'invalid opcode'" , "'hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: RE: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Narvi wrote: > > I don't think making a X aware Texinfo would be that hard.... Yeah, it's called GNU Emacs.. :-) But you're missing the point: How do you call it from WITHIN your application in a way that makes sense? > Display Postscript Extension? As far as I remember it's not the Server > but hardware - you pass Postscript commands directly to the graphics > card... Were there such things widely available for the PCs, XFree86 would > support them, I'm pretty sure. Bzzzt! Wrong.. As far as I know, there ARE no video cards that support Postscript commands directly, even for workstations. Suns and other commercial Unixes which use the DPS extension, take the Postscript commands and render them to the screen using normal methods. Now there's nothing to stop somebody from making a Postscript clone (Ghostscript?) X server extension, or even licensing DPS for a commercial X server for FreeBSD, but don't be mistakenly thinking that there's some magic workstation hardware that makes it possible! ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 15:19:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA19101 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 15:19:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA19073 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 15:19:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA17051; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 00:19:37 +0100 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA16415 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Wed, 28 Feb 1996 00:19:12 +0100 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA12382 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:44:23 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA00972; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 19:23:48 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199602271823.TAA00972@yedi.iaf.nl> X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? To: coredump@nervosa.com (invalid opcode) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 19:23:48 +0100 (MET) Cc: brandon@tombstone.sunrem.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "invalid opcode" at Feb 26, 96 11:31:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Brandon Gillespie wrote: > > just do not get rid of /usr/src off CD #2, I find that to be extremely > > useful as I dont have to install the entire source tree, but I can still > > grab tidbits of os source when needed, and 'lndir /cdrom/usr/src > > /usr/src' is also rather handy ;) > > Yes, I _definetly_ agree with that. > > == Chris Layne ============================================================== Me too. I just don't want to keep all of the source on magnetic disk for just the odd moment I want to look at say 'find.c' or somesuch. I know most real developers have it on magnetic disk but they probably track -current anyway. For Joe Nowhere hanging off a 14K4 slip line the odds are different. Just my Dfl 0.02 WIlko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 15:29:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA20673 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 15:29:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA20664 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 15:29:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0trYpJ-0009Z0C; Tue, 27 Feb 96 15:29 PST Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 15:28:52 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: Narvi cc: John Fieber , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: RE: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Narvi wrote: > Have you ever actually tried the windows sound control panel? Ever tried > it with having only the PC speaker? (Assuming you knew where to look and > got the sound driver for the PC speaker). The Windows Sound control panel works great, what are you complaining about??? If you do have a sound card, or the PC speaker driver, then you can associate many events with .WAV sounds, if you don't, then what do you expect? BTW, Windows NT explicitly does NOT support the PC speaker for digitized sound output because it is very CPU intensive and requires "real-time" programming to twiddle the bits (and doesn't sound very good, to boot). If you notice in Windows 3.1 with the PC speaker driver, the mouse will seize up while its playing the sounds.. So the moral is BUY A SOUND CARD (that applies for any operating system, not just Windows).. > Shut up! Windows was not the thing to start unified printing! Apple did > it much earlier! And talking about GDI - from where the hell comes the > thact that the same thing, using the same fonts, the same layout prints > out a bit different on just slightly different printers (just +- some > lines per some pages)? And once more the same question - have you tried > it all out? Yes, I know it sounds rude - more ruder all the time - but > the picture isn't just that beautiful... :( Yes you are sounding a little bit rude, but that's okay.. Sure the Mac did it first, the Mac popularized a lot of GUI ideas that Windows stole, but the Mac stole them from Xerox PARC, so what's your point? My argument was that Unix is missing these things, and Windows is a good example of what we should be shooting for in terms of GUI features. As for printing, with the Mac you still have to have a Postscript printer (with few exceptions like their Inkjet), it doesn't support PCL like Windows does (or Unix with Ghostscript as a filter). And thanks to Windows using GDI calls for printing (and the Mac using Quickdraw) you can get Print and Print Preview functionality with remarkably few lines of code (especially using MFC/C++ in Windows) because you're basically "drawing to the printer". > For example, take the time and read the notes on differernces about the > printing code on Win31/Win32. Okay printing is a bit simpler under Win32, but it is simplest of all when you use the MFC/C++ framework. What is your point, exactly? > > I agree, 110%! Come to think of it, the ONLY programs I've seen with a > > decent GUI (that are available on more than one vendor's flavor of Unix) > > are Netscape, and MAYBE Emacs. That is if you don't count WINE, WABI, > > TWIN, and Softwindows (evil grin!) ;-) > > Then you have really seen only a few.... :) > > Grumpy Sander Okay, I'm sure I missed some.. But give me some examples of really good (not just adequate) Unix GUI programs. I mean a program where you don't have to consult the Man page to learn how to use it..ever! Did those programs use Motif, Tcl/Tk, or something else? ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 15:33:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA21312 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 15:33:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA21303 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 15:33:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0trYto-0009Z2C; Tue, 27 Feb 96 15:33 PST Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 15:33:38 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: Ollivier Robert cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD ports to NT (was Win32...) In-Reply-To: <199602272215.XAA00762@keltia.freenix.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Ollivier Robert wrote: > It seems that Jake Hamby said: > > My plan is this: Instead of porting programs like cp, cat, mv, or vi, > > which all have perfectly good Windows equivalents, slavishly following > > Unix semantics, and limiting oneself to Console apps, why not port > > programs that DON'T have good Windows equivalents, such as sed, awk, > > tcsh, fortune, sup, CVS, and the like? These programs should work with > > Just have a look at Cygnus' NT development kit which already most of what > you need. Okay, thanks for the tip.. If somebody has already done a really good port, then I'll just point to it from my Web page rather than duplicating the effort.. But my plan is to develop the programs under Visual C++ rather than GCC, so Cygnus' development kit might not be too appropriate except for the console utilities (cat, cp, etc) that it contains, and as I mentioned, I'm more interested in user-level applications and games, that have no good Windows equivalent, rather than programmer tools that aren't particularly applicable to VC++ or Unix utilities that don't make a good transition to the GUI world (like the vi editor) or have perfectly servicable DOS-type equivalents (e.g. ls == dir). ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 17:44:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA03056 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 17:44:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA03033 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 17:44:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA04974; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 03:44:52 +0200 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 03:44:51 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Jake Hamby cc: "'Christoph Kukulies'" , "'invalid opcode'" , "'hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: RE: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Narvi wrote: > > > > I don't think making a X aware Texinfo would be that hard.... > > Yeah, it's called GNU Emacs.. :-) But you're missing the point: How do > you call it from WITHIN your application in a way that makes sense? > > > Display Postscript Extension? As far as I remember it's not the Server > > but hardware - you pass Postscript commands directly to the graphics > > card... Were there such things widely available for the PCs, XFree86 would > > support them, I'm pretty sure. > > Bzzzt! Wrong.. As far as I know, there ARE no video cards that support > Postscript commands directly, even for workstations. Suns and other > commercial Unixes which use the DPS extension, take the Postscript > commands and render them to the screen using normal methods. Now there's > nothing to stop somebody from making a Postscript clone (Ghostscript?) X > server extension, or even licensing DPS for a commercial X server for > FreeBSD, but don't be mistakenly thinking that there's some magic > workstation hardware that makes it possible! > I don't know - and it's overly too late for me on the moment to try to look up something for sure. Yes, I know about the DPS extension to the X - actually, for quite some time already. And I don't believe in magic hardware, no matter what it is claimed to do. But I'm pretty sure about DPS accelerators - it's something I have seen for sure. Not convinced? I know I cannot prove it on the moment but just give a thought to it - no magic hardware is needed (CPU + RAM) much more easier to implement than most of real high grade graphics hardware flying around... > ---Jake > Sander From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 18:11:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA05727 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 18:11:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA05719 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 18:11:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id EAA05047; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 04:11:52 +0200 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 04:11:52 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Jake Hamby cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: RE: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Narvi wrote: > > > Have you ever actually tried the windows sound control panel? Ever tried > > it with having only the PC speaker? (Assuming you knew where to look and > > got the sound driver for the PC speaker). > > The Windows Sound control panel works great, what are you complaining > about??? If you do have a sound card, or the PC speaker driver, then you > can associate many events with .WAV sounds, if you don't, then what do > you expect? BTW, Windows NT explicitly does NOT support the PC speaker > for digitized sound output because it is very CPU intensive and requires > "real-time" programming to twiddle the bits (and doesn't sound very good, > to boot). If you notice in Windows 3.1 with the PC speaker driver, the > mouse will seize up while its playing the sounds.. So the moral is BUY A > SOUND CARD (that applies for any operating system, not just Windows).. > Not exactly to the point... 1) You cannot change the sound's parameters (should a particular thing happen not to sound correct) under the sound icon - go to the drivers config.... 2) Several events? Actually not several but just some spcific windows events. 3) If your mouse freezes during playing the sounds, then you just have told windows to "disable interrupts while playing the sound". > > Shut up! Windows was not the thing to start unified printing! Apple did > > it much earlier! And talking about GDI - from where the hell comes the > > thact that the same thing, using the same fonts, the same layout prints > > out a bit different on just slightly different printers (just +- some > > lines per some pages)? And once more the same question - have you tried > > it all out? Yes, I know it sounds rude - more ruder all the time - but > > the picture isn't just that beautiful... :( > > Yes you are sounding a little bit rude, but that's okay.. Sure the Mac > did it first, the Mac popularized a lot of GUI ideas that Windows stole, > but the Mac stole them from Xerox PARC, so what's your point? My The very same thing - not windows original idea, not the best possible way - should you want to port it to FreeBSD, you should look at it with a more broader viewpoint and make a broader port having the windows implementation as just a subset. > argument was that Unix is missing these things, and Windows is a good > example of what we should be shooting for in terms of GUI features. As > for printing, with the Mac you still have to have a Postscript printer > (with few exceptions like their Inkjet), it doesn't support PCL like > Windows does (or Unix with Ghostscript as a filter). And thanks to > Windows using GDI calls for printing (and the Mac using Quickdraw) you GDI calls? I would very much like them to be a bit different... Windows GDI is quite pixel-device oriented. Just imagine that all who wanted to print something emitted postscript... if the printer didn't support it in native mode, it would be filtered through Ghostscript. > can get Print and Print Preview functionality with remarkably few lines > of code (especially using MFC/C++ in Windows) because you're basically > "drawing to the printer". > Until the functionality suits you - after that you will start infinetly writing new derived classes - yes the code (on the surface) would remain still short. > > For example, take the time and read the notes on differernces about the > > printing code on Win31/Win32. > > Okay printing is a bit simpler under Win32, but it is simplest of all > when you use the MFC/C++ framework. What is your point, exactly? > > > > I agree, 110%! Come to think of it, the ONLY programs I've seen with a > > > decent GUI (that are available on more than one vendor's flavor of Unix) > > > are Netscape, and MAYBE Emacs. That is if you don't count WINE, WABI, > > > TWIN, and Softwindows (evil grin!) ;-) > > > > Then you have really seen only a few.... :) > > > > Grumpy Sander > > Okay, I'm sure I missed some.. But give me some examples of really good > (not just adequate) Unix GUI programs. I mean a program where you > don't have to consult the Man page to learn how to use it..ever! Did > those programs use Motif, Tcl/Tk, or something else? > Talking about real good GUIs... How do you define one? Windows certainly is not a GUI unified enough and there are quite some programs I really don't think should be like that at all - for several reasons the list contains Word 6.0, Corel Draw 5.0 and Windows95 (I will discuss none of these in this list). XF has a good GUI as well as fdesign - at least compareable to the equivalent commercial programs for the Windows environment. > ---Jake > Sander From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 18:32:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA07470 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 18:32:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA07367 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 18:32:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id EAA05091; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 04:32:34 +0200 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 04:32:34 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: RE: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Narvi wrote: This is the last mail from me on this thread. I'm sorry it came to such a volume of flame. Anyone discontent with my ideas/feelings on Windows/ Win31/Win32 GUI please send mail directly to me. Tired of it all, Sander From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 19:02:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA09471 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 19:02:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay.hp.com (relay.hp.com [15.255.152.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA09457 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 19:02:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from fakir.india.hp.com by relay.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA018876498; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 19:01:44 -0800 Received: from localhost by fakir.india.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA152876771; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 08:36:11 +0530 Message-Id: <199602280306.AA152876771@fakir.india.hp.com> To: Terry Lambert Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, kelly@yarmouth.edu, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:39:19 MST." <199602272039.NAA05704@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 08:36:10 +0530 From: A JOSEPH KOSHY Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk tl> jk> * SCO had a product called Visual Tcl which they used for system admin tl> I'd suggest wksh instead. There is now a book on it, and sample Thanks for bringing this up: WKSH had slipped my mind. Between Tk and WKSH I personally prefer Tk because: (a) the WKSH language has become complex to the point of being baroque; (the ability to define/use "C" structures and pointers, to make calls to Xlib/Xt Intrinsics as part of the language is case in point). This would mean a resource hungry interpreter, not to mention requiring Xt. Tcl/Tk is much smaller in comparision but gives almost all the functionality and in some cases (the canvas widget for example) provides superior functionality. (b) Tcl/Tk are easier to embed into applications; the same cannot be said of WKSH. (c) And, very important, Tk is free while WKSH is not. This means that improvements to it are easier to make and its technical quality is likely to improve faster than proprietary products. That said, I note that DTKSH (nee' WKSH) IS part of CDE and thus is part of some kind of `standard' whereas Tcl/Tk is not. Koshy From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 19:41:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA10752 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 19:41:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA10738 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 19:41:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com ([198.17.250.211]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id TAA20648 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 19:41:05 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA06835; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:27:48 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602280327.UAA06835@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:27:47 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jfieber@indiana.edu, jerry@border.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199602272300.AAA04556@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from "Luigi Rizzo" at Feb 28, 96 00:00:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I have some example file compression code for the Heidemann framework; > > John has asked that I not redistribute it. > > but the problem is not the compression code, there's plenty of it > out there, and some is even reasonably fast [and often the same > algorithm has been patented several times by different people, > *after* an implementation was made available on the net; I was > reading the comp.compression FAQ the other night and it's full of > this kind of stories! ]. The problem is that compressed blocks > have variable size, and handling them efficiently requires (I > believe) big changes in the device+fs code. Perhaps log-structured > filesystems lend themselves better to this. The code that John's students wrote for their project compressed and decompressed on a file basis, so this isn't a problem, at least for file compression. > > It would be trivial to implement block compression at the device export > > layer in the devie framework I suggested previously. This is similar > > while you can certainly make a compressed device look like a regular > one, I believe some efficiency is lost, and not only because of > compression. The FS layout assumes that adjacent blocks are adjacent > (modulo a few bad sectors). But what on a compressed device ? It's pretty clear that you need a block-addressable variable granularity block store for this type of thing. Such a block store would be *extremely* useful for all sorts of things, like attribution, and not just compression. 8-). I think if you cared about speed, you'd buy more disk. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 20:24:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA11709 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:24:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA11704 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:24:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id UAA21465 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:24:34 -0800 Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0trdQ0-0009Z7C; Tue, 27 Feb 96 20:23 PST Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:23:11 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: Terry Lambert cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, phk@critter.tfs.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... In-Reply-To: <199602272051.NAA05760@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > Well, what they should've done is fix the Zorro bus in the Amiga, and > > > then things would've been perfect. They had AutoConfig since 1986, > > > man... ;-) > > > > I gave my A2500 away last year to someone who actually had the time > > to use it.. :-) > > Hope they are porting FreeBSD. Amiga has NetBSD.. Works pretty good, too, and is binary-compatible with the Mac version. > BTW, Multibus and QBus had autoconfig way before 1986, FWIW. AutoConfig was a trademark of Commodore. The Zorro I and II buses were basically a local bus (straight off the 68000 chip), but Zorro III was an asynchronous bus that could adaptively negotiate clock speed and feature set with individual cards (backwards compatible with Zorro II, but Zorro I was very shortlived). But come to think of it, since all of the cards were memory-mapped, and the 680x0 has shared IRQ and DMA channels, there was only the memory range to allocate to AutoConfig it. Interestingly, the OS was smart enough to boot off of hard drive controller boards by loading in the driver from a ROM, and could also AutoConfig RAM expansion boards and add the RAM to the free memory pool... ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 20:38:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA12056 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:38:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA12051 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:38:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id UAA21619 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:38:26 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA04166; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:36:16 -0800 Message-Id: <199602280436.UAA04166@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Narvi cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 04:32:34 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:36:15 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The thread is fine it just belongs in something like chat or a separate mailing list and hopefully if something good comes out in the form of an idea or better yet code then back to -hackers. Amancio >>> Narvi said: > > > On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Narvi wrote: > > This is the last mail from me on this thread. I'm sorry it came to such a > volume of flame. Anyone discontent with my ideas/feelings on Windows/ > Win31/Win32 GUI please send mail directly to me. > > Tired of it all, > > Sander > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 20:42:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA12154 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:42:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA12149 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:41:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from ki.net (root@[142.77.249.8]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id UAA21650 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:41:40 -0800 Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA20962; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:40:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:40:17 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Pentium gcc (pgcc) in ports... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hiya... I'm just grabbing down pl6 of pgcc, and was wondering what the general concensous(sp?) is on it. I know that it is generally accepted that 2.7.2 is too buggy to be used for stuff like compiling XFree and the kernel and whatnot...does anyone have any similar or opposite comments about pgcc? Thanks... Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting System | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, Administrator | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://www.ki.net | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 20:43:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA12222 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:43:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA12215 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:43:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id UAA21674 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:43:16 -0800 Received: from hamby1.lightside.net by covina.lightside.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0trdit-0009Z7C; Tue, 27 Feb 96 20:42 PST Received: by hamby1.lightside.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BB0554.637FC410@hamby1.lightside.net>; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:44:28 -0800 Message-ID: <01BB0554.637FC410@hamby1.lightside.net> From: Jake Hamby To: Jake Hamby , "'Narvi'" Cc: "hackers@FreeBSD.org" Subject: RE: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:44:20 -0800 Encoding: 78 TEXT Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Not exactly to the point... > 1) You cannot change the sound's parameters (should a particular > thing happen not to sound correct) under the sound icon - go > to the drivers config.... > 2) Several events? Actually not several but just some spcific > windows events. > 3) If your mouse freezes during playing the sounds, then you just > have told windows to "disable interrupts while playing the sound". 1) Okay you can't EDIT the sound from within the control panel, or change the volume, but I don't find those features necessary, I would use a separate program to do that. 2) Well yes, but Windows 95 (and NT beta) have a lot more built-in associations, and third-party programs (like Icon-Hear-It) to do the same thing have been around for several years. Also, individual programs can add sound events to the Sound control panel by adding entries in the .INI. 3) No, that is the fault of the PC speaker driver for sound. That's why I said that you should BUY A SOUND CARD. The PC speaker was not intended to play digitized sounds through, and to do so is a kludge and takes a lot of CPU intervention, regardless of the OS. >The very same thing - not windows original idea, not the best possible >way - should you want to port it to FreeBSD, you should look at it with a >more broader viewpoint and make a broader port having the windows >implementation as just a subset. Fair enough, I just thought Windows was a good example, and basically our competition (well, besides Linux, which now has Caldera Desktop which might solve some of these problems, I haven't really looked at it)... >GDI calls? I would very much like them to be a bit different... Windows >GDI is quite pixel-device oriented. Just imagine that all who wanted to >print something emitted postscript... if the printer didn't support it in >native mode, it would be filtered through Ghostscript. I'm saying that you need to support GDI ANYWAY to draw to the screen, so when you want to print you can reuse that entire section of code. If you need to emit Postscript, you have to completely reemplement your screen drawing code, rather than reusing it! And GDI is not entirely pixel-device oriented, you can still communicate with a line printer or plotter if you limit yourself to GDI font calls for built-in fonts on the former, and vector-oriented GDI calls (e.g. plotter fonts and line drawing) on the latter. Where is the problem? >Until the functionality suits you - after that you will start infinetly >writing new derived classes - yes the code (on the surface) would remain >still short. Yes, that's the point of C++, inheritance allows you to reuse code. Sure your MFC Windows "Hello world!" program would be 150k if you statically linked it with the MFC libraries, but thanks to shared libraries, er DLL's, your program is back to 20k (the same size as a C Windows app) but now has Print/Print Preview, toolbar, status bar, and a lot of other functionality built in. So not only do you save typing, but your program is smaller, to boot! >Talking about real good GUIs... How do you define one? Windows certainly >is not a GUI unified enough and there are quite some programs I really >don't think should be like that at all - for several reasons the list >contains Word 6.0, Corel Draw 5.0 and Windows95 (I will discuss none of >these in this list). Sure, Windows is not unified like the Mac, but it is MUCH better than Unix. With Motif, Tcl/Tk, OpenLook, Athena, and various Xlib-derived toolkits, almost every Unix program is very different from every other. If it weren't for the ICCCM, they wouldn't even be able to communicate via cut-n-paste, and even there, all they can exchange is typically text. >XF has a good GUI as well as fdesign - at least compareable to the >equivalent commercial programs for the Windows environment. XV has a good GUI, I forgot about that one. Haven't seen XF or fdesign, though. ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 20:43:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA12268 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:43:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA12263 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:43:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id UAA21694 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:43:56 -0800 Received: from hamby1.lightside.net by covina.lightside.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0trdin-0009YiC; Tue, 27 Feb 96 20:42 PST Received: by hamby1.lightside.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BB0554.60DDF010@hamby1.lightside.net>; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:44:24 -0800 Message-ID: <01BB0554.60DDF010@hamby1.lightside.net> From: Jake Hamby To: Jake Hamby , "'Narvi'" Cc: "'Christoph Kukulies'" , "'invalid opcode'" , "'hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: RE: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:33:10 -0800 Encoding: 22 TEXT Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >I don't know - and it's overly too late for me on the moment to try to >look up something for sure. Yes, I know about the DPS extension to the X >- actually, for quite some time already. And I don't believe in magic >hardware, no matter what it is claimed to do. But I'm pretty sure about >DPS accelerators - it's something I have seen for sure. Not convinced? >I know I cannot prove it on the moment but just give a thought to it - no >magic hardware is needed (CPU + RAM) much more easier to implement than >most of real high grade graphics hardware flying around... Well any decent video card is going to have: hardware cursor, bit blitting, and line drawing. The better ones are going to have scaling, polygon drawing, maybe rotation. The best (3-D accelerators) may have 3-D polygon drawing, Phong shading, and the like. I'm sure that you could accelerate DPS by fully utilitizing the bit blitting facility (caching fonts in extra Video RAM) possibly scaling and/or rotating them, or even drawing fonts as vector polygons. The point is that I don't think there is any video card that you can feed raw Postscript to, and have it interpret the commands, as you seemed to imply originally. ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 22:12:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA13409 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 22:12:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from ki.net (root@[142.77.249.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA13372 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 22:11:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA20664; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:23:08 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:23:05 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Rich Scott cc: "Amancio Hasty Jr." , freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: gcc pentium for FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 22 Jan 1996, Rich Scott wrote: > > See the Pentium Compiler Group page: > > http://www-iss.mach.uni-karlsruhe.de/pcg/ > Just tried it: Error Error 404 Not found - file doesn't exist or is read protected [even tried multi] _________________________________________________________________ CERN httpd 3.0 Has the URL changed? I'm trying to pull the files manually before I go at the /usr/ports/lang/pgcc... Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting System | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, Administrator | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://www.ki.net | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 22:18:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA13978 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 22:18:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (pp@[130.102.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA13920 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 22:17:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <24298-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:15:28 +1000 Received: from netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id QAA03257 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:15:14 +1000 Received: from localhost by netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.8.1/DEVETIR-0.1) id GAA19789 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 06:18:05 GMT Message-Id: <199602280618.GAA19789@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? X-Face: 3}heU+2?b->-GSF-G4T4>jEB9~FR(V9lo&o>kAy=Pj&;oVOc<|pr%I/VSG"ZD32J>5gGC0N 7gj]^GI@M:LlqNd]|(2OxOxy@$6@/!,";-!OlucF^=jq8s57$%qXd/ieC8DhWmIy@J1AcnvSGV\|*! >Bvu7+0h4zCY^]{AxXKsDTlgA2m]fX$W@'8ev-Qi+-;%L'CcZ'NBL!@n?}q!M&Em3*eW7,093nOeV8 M)(u+6D;%B7j\XA/9j4!Gj~&jYzflG[#)E9sI&Xe9~y~Gn%fA7>F:YKr"Wx4cZU*6{^2ocZ!YyR Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:18:03 +1000 From: Stephen Hocking Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As most people in the civilised world are now aware, the iD-inspired mania of quake has started, with both DOS & Linux versions found in the appropriate directory on ftp.cdrom.com. However, the Linux version uses the ELF libraries. Any chance of a few patches to the Linux emulator..... Stephen -- I do not speak for the Worker's Compensation Board of Queensland - They don't pay me enough for that! From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 22:48:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA16016 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 22:48:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA16010 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 22:48:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA00360; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 22:46:27 -0800 Message-Id: <199602280646.WAA00360@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Stephen Hocking cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:18:03 +1000." <199602280618.GAA19789@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 22:46:25 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Gosh, Can we send out 2000 mail messages to iD?? I can understand, well okay remotely understand, a very very long thread on the virtue of to code or not to code. However to send a huge number of mail messages to iD to compile their stuff on FreeBSD is not a big deal. To make matters worse , I think we are going to be out of sink with the latest *linux* sound driver . So even if can muster to run quake under the linux emulation stuff I bet we will not have sound for a long time. The icing on the cake, if I am not mistaken the main ftp site for iD stuff is ftp.cdrom.com. Amancio >>> Stephen Hocking said: > As most people in the civilised world are now aware, the iD-inspired mania o f > quake has started, with both DOS & Linux versions found in the appropriate > directory on ftp.cdrom.com. However, the Linux version uses the ELF librarie s. > Any chance of a few patches to the Linux emulator..... > > Stephen > -- > > I do not speak for the Worker's Compensation Board of Queensland - > They don't pay me enough for that! > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 22:52:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA16225 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 22:52:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA16193 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 22:51:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA00377; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 22:48:16 -0800 Message-Id: <199602280648.WAA00377@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: "Marc G. Fournier" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Pentium gcc (pgcc) in ports... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:40:17 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 22:48:16 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, the general consesus is that someone drop the ball and in some programs like mpeg_play we lost oh about 30% performace from a previous pgcc version. Amancio >>> "Marc G. Fournier" said: > > Hiya... > > I'm just grabbing down pl6 of pgcc, and was wondering what the > general concensous(sp?) is on it. I know that it is generally accepted > that 2.7.2 is too buggy to be used for stuff like compiling XFree and > the kernel and whatnot...does anyone have any similar or opposite comments > about pgcc? > > Thanks... > > Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting > System | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, > Administrator | | Information and > scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://www.ki.net | Communications, Inc > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 23:19:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA17814 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:19:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA17807 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:19:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA01393; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:18:01 -0800 (PST) To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: Stephen Hocking , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 27 Feb 1996 22:46:25 PST." <199602280646.WAA00360@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:18:01 -0800 Message-ID: <1391.825491881@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Gosh, > > Can we send out 2000 mail messages to iD?? Ack, no, please don't! Look, seriously, I've talked to the _developers_ of this friggin' software and they've made it more than abundantly plain to me, on multiple occasions, that they are NEVER, EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES going to do a port to FreeBSD and the matter is not even open to discussion. The only reason we see a "free UNIX" port of IDs stuff at all is because they happen to be unabashed Linux fanatics there, and they have zero, zip nada interest in a FreeBSD port. If you want Dave Taylor to publically state same in this mailing list before you'll believe it, I'm also fairly sure it could be arranged. He's certainly not been shy about making all of the above clear to me, and pestering them with a letter-bombing campaign would have exactly the opposite effect of what I suspect you'd like to achieve. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 23:23:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA18158 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:23:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from maui.com (root@waena.mrtc.maui.com [199.4.33.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA18151 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:23:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from caliban.dihelix.com (caliban.dihelix.com [199.4.33.251]) by maui.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA14580; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 21:28:04 -1000 Received: (from root@localhost) by caliban.dihelix.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) id VAA00695; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 21:22:55 -1000 (HST) Message-Id: <199602280722.VAA00695@caliban.dihelix.com> Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? To: sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au (Stephen Hocking) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 21:22:54 -1000 (HST) From: "David Langford" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602280618.GAA19789@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> from "Stephen Hocking" at Feb 28, 96 04:18:03 pm From: "David Langford" X-blank-line: This space intentionaly left blank. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Stephen Hocking > >As most people in the civilised world are now aware, the iD-inspired mania of >quake has started, with both DOS & Linux versions found in the appropriate >directory on ftp.cdrom.com. However, the Linux version uses the ELF libraries. >Any chance of a few patches to the Linux emulator..... > > Stephen >From the NetBSD camp: Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 04:37:30 -0500 (EST) From: "Charles M. Hannum" To: netbsd-announce@NetBSD.ORG Cc: port-i386@NetBSD.ORG Subject: Quake Deathmatch works! >The Quake Deathmatch test works under NetBSD-current, with >COMPAT_LINUX and an /emul/linux/lib populated with ELF libraries. > >Local playing should work on any recent kernel; for network playing, >you'll need some changes I just committed to emulate various Linux >SIOC* calls. > >I'm going to look at the sound support... From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 23:36:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA19163 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:36:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA19122 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:36:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA00751; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:34:03 -0800 Message-Id: <199602280734.XAA00751@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Stephen Hocking , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:18:01 PST." <1391.825491881@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:34:02 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> "Jordan K. Hubbard" said: > > Gosh, > > > > Can we send out 2000 mail messages to iD?? > > Ack, no, please don't! Look, seriously, I've talked to the > _developers_ of this friggin' software and they've made it more than > abundantly plain to me, on multiple occasions, that they are NEVER, > EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES going to do a port to FreeBSD and the > matter is not even open to discussion. The only reason we see a "free > UNIX" port of IDs stuff at all is because they happen to be unabashed > Linux fanatics there, and they have zero, zip nada interest in a > FreeBSD port. > > If you want Dave Taylor to publically state same in this mailing list Fine , arrange it . I like to go "down" fighting not standing down. If they don't make port for FreeBSD can you remove the stuff from the ftp.cdrom.com site. This is my thinking they are so in love with linux yet they have not been able to provide an adequate linux ftp site. It seems to me that they have dollars and can buy the expertise to provide adequate ftp services be that linux or some other platform. As you stated they are linux fanatics let the linux community provide free bandwith and computing resources. For the html link to their directory in the Web Server a *black* background with a red ribbon in protest of not providing a FreeBSD port. This may or may not work but for sure the current strategy is not working . Don't mind me my old Puerto Rican blood well is boiling and you ought to hear the keyboard and I am amazed I that have not pop a key! Amancio > before you'll believe it, I'm also fairly sure it could be arranged. > He's certainly not been shy about making all of the above clear to me, > and pestering them with a letter-bombing campaign would have exactly > the opposite effect of what I suspect you'd like to achieve. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 27 23:58:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA20415 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:58:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA20407 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:57:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id IAA05482; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 08:48:12 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199602280748.IAA05482@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 08:48:12 +0100 (MET) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jfieber@indiana.edu, jerry@border.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199602280327.UAA06835@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Feb 27, 96 08:27:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I think if you cared about speed, you'd buy more disk. Oh, but I want both speed and compression :) Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 00:04:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA20800 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 00:04:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA20787 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 00:03:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id AAA05147; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 00:03:35 -0800 Message-Id: <199602280803.AAA05147@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Stephen Hocking , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:34:02 PST." <199602280734.XAA00751@rah.star-gate.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 00:03:35 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>> "Jordan K. Hubbard" said: > > > Gosh, > > > > > > Can we send out 2000 mail messages to iD?? > > > > Ack, no, please don't! Look, seriously, I've talked to the > > _developers_ of this friggin' software and they've made it more than > > abundantly plain to me, on multiple occasions, that they are NEVER, > > EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES going to do a port to FreeBSD and the > > matter is not even open to discussion. The only reason we see a "free > > UNIX" port of IDs stuff at all is because they happen to be unabashed > > Linux fanatics there, and they have zero, zip nada interest in a > > FreeBSD port. > > > > If you want Dave Taylor to publically state same in this mailing list > >Fine , arrange it . I like to go "down" fighting not standing down. >If they don't make port for FreeBSD can you remove the stuff from >the ftp.cdrom.com site. This is my thinking they are so in love with >linux yet they have not been able to provide an adequate linux ftp >site. It seems to me that they have dollars and can buy the expertise >to provide adequate ftp services be that linux or some other platform. No, that would be *extremely* childish and bad business to boot. Besides, we gain a tremendous amount by dishing out our FreeBSD propaganda when they (the dos/linux people) access the archive. wcarchive didn't grow to be the biggest and busiest FTP archive in the world by strong-arming people into a One True Way of thinking. You can put me on record as saying that I think it's very bad policy to sink to the levels of the Linux fanatics. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 00:18:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA21820 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 00:18:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA21803 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 00:18:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA05959; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:18:31 +0200 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:18:31 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-Reply-To: <199602280734.XAA00751@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > >>> "Jordan K. Hubbard" said: > > > Gosh, > > > > > > Can we send out 2000 mail messages to iD?? > > > > Ack, no, please don't! Look, seriously, I've talked to the > > _developers_ of this friggin' software and they've made it more than > > abundantly plain to me, on multiple occasions, that they are NEVER, > > EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES going to do a port to FreeBSD and the > > matter is not even open to discussion. The only reason we see a "free > > UNIX" port of IDs stuff at all is because they happen to be unabashed > > Linux fanatics there, and they have zero, zip nada interest in a > > FreeBSD port. > > > > If you want Dave Taylor to publically state same in this mailing list > > Fine , arrange it . I like to go "down" fighting not standing down. > If they don't make port for FreeBSD can you remove the stuff from > the ftp.cdrom.com site. This is my thinking they are so in love with > linux yet they have not been able to provide an adequate linux ftp > site. It seems to me that they have dollars and can buy the expertise > to provide adequate ftp services be that linux or some other platform. > > As you stated they are linux fanatics let the linux community provide > free bandwith and computing resources. For the html link to their > directory in the Web Server a *black* background with a red ribbon in > protest of not providing a FreeBSD port. This may or may not work > but for sure the current strategy is not working . > > Don't mind me my old Puerto Rican blood well is boiling > and you ought to hear the keyboard and I am amazed I that have > not pop a key! > I know I just caused a great flaming myself but everybody reading this mail please consider these things a bit more. I don't think it any good to start a fight over such nonsens. You can't always deal with the fanatics fanatically. Do we really need a war? I don't think so - let them be where they are. There would be much too many people who would not understand why they got removed from the ftp site. The web link idea is great - and it can be exploited without a war. Just make a web page called something like "Protests to ID" or something like that where anyone wanting can add oneself there. Why not just make a anti-ID campain? After all, they live on their games, don't they? So make just a big enough confusion about it all until they port it to FreeBSD. Mmuch easier and doesn't involve any mail-bombings in any direction or some kind of silly kamikadze attacks. *Please don't answer to this mail*. Sander > > Amancio > > > > before you'll believe it, I'm also fairly sure it could be arranged. > > He's certainly not been shy about making all of the above clear to me, > > and pestering them with a letter-bombing campaign would have exactly > > the opposite effect of what I suspect you'd like to achieve. > > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 00:54:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA23812 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 00:54:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA23805 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 00:54:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA01198; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 00:53:04 -0800 Message-Id: <199602280853.AAA01198@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: davidg@Root.COM cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Stephen Hocking , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 00:03:35 PST." <199602280803.AAA05147@Root.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 00:53:03 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Yeap, I realize that there is a core group of individuals that would follow your thinking which happens to both maintain the level of technology that we have today (which I think is good ) then on the other hand in terms of well the whole group making its presence known in the internet has not been as big as the Linux crowd. I still like the idea of the black background with the red ribbon at least for a week. As for ftp.cdrom.com is kind of hard via netscape to tell that is a FreeBSD system and I am not too sure that it registers that well on people's mind. One small data point on the net, a linux user said "I got to admit that ftp.cdrom.com is interesting technology however it needs more exposure" Okay, the linux fanatic is wrong . For whatever is worth, I know that I fighting a losing battle with David Taylor and even trying to convince this group to mail bomb ID (ruffle, sift, I thought I had an H e-mail bomb around here somewhere) In fact, I am not even sure if this group can organize itself to present a common cause such as the current scenario. Well okay, I am getting old , so perhaps someone can present evidence of at least once when this group agreed to act as whole for the purpose of acquiring something. For instance, I remember the XFree86 team collecting a tally count of many netters and presenting a grand total to Diamond. Granted it did not work initially but somehow XFree86 how to notes found there way into Diamond's Web Server. Subliminal message: I still like the idea of the black background with the red ribbon at least for a week. Amancio >>> David Greenman said: > >>>> "Jordan K. Hubbard" said: > > > > Gosh, > > > > > > > > Can we send out 2000 mail messages to iD?? > > > > > > Ack, no, please don't! Look, seriously, I've talked to the > > > _developers_ of this friggin' software and they've made it more than > > > abundantly plain to me, on multiple occasions, that they are NEVER, > > > EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES going to do a port to FreeBSD and the > > > matter is not even open to discussion. The only reason we see a "free > > > UNIX" port of IDs stuff at all is because they happen to be unabashed > > > Linux fanatics there, and they have zero, zip nada interest in a > > > FreeBSD port. > > > > > > If you want Dave Taylor to publically state same in this mailing list > > > >Fine , arrange it . I like to go "down" fighting not standing down. > >If they don't make port for FreeBSD can you remove the stuff from > >the ftp.cdrom.com site. This is my thinking they are so in love with > >linux yet they have not been able to provide an adequate linux ftp > >site. It seems to me that they have dollars and can buy the expertise > >to provide adequate ftp services be that linux or some other platform. > > No, that would be *extremely* childish and bad business to boot. Besides, It is *not* childish it depends on how is executed if you state the reason in a persuasive manner it can be construed as a protest. I hope that you parse this clearly. > we gain a tremendous amount by dishing out our FreeBSD propaganda when they To be honest with you I don't think so specially if the access the system via netscape. Most of the times I tend to ignore the initial sign on banner and just go right in to fetch what I want. Now if you tell me that Walnut Creek has a big ad on something like the Wall Street Journal then thats different I bet people will pay attention. Okay, Wall Street Journal is big how about a bigger ad on Computer Currents or Microtimes 8) > (the dos/linux people) access the archive. wcarchive didn't grow to be > the biggest and busiest FTP archive in the world by strong-arming people > into a One True Way of thinking. > You can put me on record as saying that I think it's very bad policy to > sink to the levels of the Linux fanatics. > > -DG > > David Greenman > Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 01:05:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA24217 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 01:05:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA24212 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 01:05:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0trhpL-0003xbC; Wed, 28 Feb 96 01:05 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA00789; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:05:24 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: davidg@Root.COM cc: "Amancio Hasty Jr." , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Stephen Hocking , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 00:03:35 PST." <199602280803.AAA05147@Root.COM> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:05:20 +0100 Message-ID: <787.825498320@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Fine , arrange it . I like to go "down" fighting not standing down. > >If they don't make port for FreeBSD can you remove the stuff from > >the ftp.cdrom.com site. This is my thinking they are so in love with > >linux yet they have not been able to provide an adequate linux ftp > >site. It seems to me that they have dollars and can buy the expertise > >to provide adequate ftp services be that linux or some other platform. > > No, that would be *extremely* childish and bad business to boot. Besides, > we gain a tremendous amount by dishing out our FreeBSD propaganda when they > (the dos/linux people) access the archive. wcarchive didn't grow to be > the biggest and busiest FTP archive in the world by strong-arming people > into a One True Way of thinking. > You can put me on record as saying that I think it's very bad policy to > sink to the levels of the Linux fanatics. Amen. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 01:23:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA24996 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 01:23:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from maui.com (root@waena.mrtc.maui.com [199.4.33.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA24990 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 01:23:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from caliban.dihelix.com (caliban.dihelix.com [199.4.33.251]) by maui.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA17636; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:28:37 -1000 Received: (from root@localhost) by caliban.dihelix.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) id XAA01126; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:23:27 -1000 (HST) Message-Id: <199602280923.XAA01126@caliban.dihelix.com> Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:23:26 -1000 (HST) From: "David Langford" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <1391.825491881@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 27, 96 11:18:01 pm From: "David Langford" X-blank-line: This space intentionaly left blank. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Just being curious, but why was the SGI port of doom done? No complaint on that- it gives me something to do with ours :) ID is one thing but if there is a company to go after right now, it looks like it should be Caldera. >From the looks of things they may single-handedly make Linux the MS-DOS of the '90s (*sigh*) >> Gosh, >> >> Can we send out 2000 mail messages to iD?? > >Ack, no, please don't! Look, seriously, I've talked to the >_developers_ of this friggin' software and they've made it more than >abundantly plain to me, on multiple occasions, that they are NEVER, >EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES going to do a port to FreeBSD and the >matter is not even open to discussion. The only reason we see a "free >UNIX" port of IDs stuff at all is because they happen to be unabashed >Linux fanatics there, and they have zero, zip nada interest in a >FreeBSD port. > >If you want Dave Taylor to publically state same in this mailing list >before you'll believe it, I'm also fairly sure it could be arranged. >He's certainly not been shy about making all of the above clear to me, >and pestering them with a letter-bombing campaign would have exactly >the opposite effect of what I suspect you'd like to achieve. > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 01:46:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA26549 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 01:46:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from blob.best.net ([204.156.128.88]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA26544 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 01:46:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (root@localhost) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) id BAA01267; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 01:46:02 -0800 Received: from dns1.noc.best.net (dns1.noc.best.net [206.86.8.69]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA13714 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:22:37 -0800 Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [192.216.222.4]) by dns1.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA16628 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:23:21 -0800 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA00809 Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:36:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA00792 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:36:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA00769 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:36:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA05650; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:28:39 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602272028.NAA05650@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:28:39 -0700 (MST) Cc: jfieber@indiana.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Feb 27, 96 09:53:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk ----- Message body suppressed ----- --NAA13715.825456158/dns2.noc.best.net-- ** NOTICE **: A mailer error at BEST caused this ** message to get messed up. If the body of the message contains only '----- Message body suppressed -----', then we were unable to recover the entire message and you will have to email the person sending you this message asking him or her to resend it. BEST apologizes for the inconvenience. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 01:47:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA26638 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 01:47:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from blob.best.net ([204.156.128.88]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA26628 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 01:47:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (root@localhost) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) id BAA01814; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 01:47:13 -0800 Received: from dns2.noc.best.net (dns2.noc.best.net [206.86.0.21]) by dns1.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA18200 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:30:22 -0800 Received: from dns1.noc.best.net (dns1.noc.best.net [206.86.8.69]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA15069 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:29:36 -0800 Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [192.216.222.4]) by dns1.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA18188 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:30:19 -0800 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA14279 Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:19:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA14265 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:18:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA14215 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:18:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA07330 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:20:06 +0100 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:20:06 +0100 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Message-Id: <199602271920.UAA07330@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: help needed in recovering a disk Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk ----- Message body suppressed ----- --NAA18218.825456627/dns1.noc.best.net-- ** NOTICE **: A mailer error at BEST caused this ** message to get messed up. If the body of the message contains only '----- Message body suppressed -----', then we were unable to recover the entire message and you will have to email the person sending you this message asking him or her to resend it. BEST apologizes for the inconvenience. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 01:47:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA26669 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 01:47:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA26662 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 01:47:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0triTl-0003xbC; Wed, 28 Feb 96 01:47 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA00874; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:47:23 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Sean Eric Fagan cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I've made some lpd changes In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:04:19 PST." <199602272004.MAA15024@kithrup.com> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:47:22 +0100 Message-ID: <872.825500842@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > 1. Ignore it, and let fs/fc/xs/xc die the death they should have died with > the rest of the saurians 65 million years ago. Yes. Do you need a meteor high in Iridium ? :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 01:50:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA26988 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 01:50:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from blob.best.net ([204.156.128.88]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA26970 Wed, 28 Feb 1996 01:50:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (root@localhost) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) id BAA02908; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 01:50:16 -0800 Received: from dns2.noc.best.net (dns2.noc.best.net [206.86.0.21]) by dns1.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA07718 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 16:35:32 -0800 Received: from dns1.noc.best.net (dns1.noc.best.net [206.86.8.69]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA00806 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 16:34:46 -0800 Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [192.216.222.4]) by dns1.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA07650 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 16:35:00 -0800 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA04869 Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:20:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA04692 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:18:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from ham.mics.msu.su (ham.mics.msu.su [158.250.28.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA04666 Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:18:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mics.msu.su (mics.msu.su [158.250.28.65]) by ham.mics.msu.su (8.6.4/8.6.4) with ESMTP id UAA24693; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:18:13 +0300 Received: from MICS/SpoolDir by mics.msu.su (Mercury 1.21); 27 Feb 96 20:18:19 +0300 Received: from SpoolDir by MICS (Mercury 1.21); 27 Feb 96 20:17:05 +0300 From: "Mad Phantom" Organization: Microelectronics Center To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, current@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 20:17:03 GMT+3 Subject: FIFO question X-Confirm-Reading-To: "Mad Phantom" X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <1DF27873BE4@mics.msu.su> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk ----- Message body suppressed ----- --QAA07726.825467736/dns1.noc.best.net-- ** NOTICE **: A mailer error at BEST caused this ** message to get messed up. If the body of the message contains only '----- Message body suppressed -----', then we were unable to recover the entire message and you will have to email the person sending you this message asking him or her to resend it. BEST apologizes for the inconvenience. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 01:50:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA27028 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 01:50:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from blob.best.net ([204.156.128.88]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA27006 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 01:50:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (root@localhost) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) id BAA02122; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 01:47:51 -0800 Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [192.216.222.4]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA15736 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:32:27 -0800 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA02018 Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:50:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA02005 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:50:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA01999 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:50:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA05704; Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:39:20 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602272039.NAA05704@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) To: koshy@india.hp.com (A JOSEPH KOSHY) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:39:19 -0700 (MST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, kelly@yarmouth, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199602270430.AA068575446@fakir.india.hp.com> from "A JOSEPH KOSHY" at Feb 27, 96 10:00:45 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ----- Message body suppressed ----- --NAA15774.825456753/dns2.noc.best.net-- ** NOTICE **: A mailer error at BEST caused this ** message to get messed up. If the body of the message contains only '----- Message body suppressed -----', then we were unable to recover the entire message and you will have to email the person sending you this message asking him or her to resend it. BEST apologizes for the inconvenience. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 02:08:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA28178 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 02:08:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de ([134.130.90.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA28136 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 02:07:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from thomas@localhost) by ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA04555; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:04:51 +0100 Message-Id: <199602281004.LAA04555@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: Where is NoName the Latex WYSIWYG? To: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:04:50 +0100 (MET) From: "Thomas Gellekum" Cc: john@gateway.net.hk, spaz@u.washington.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Feb 17, 96 11:49:55 am Organization: Institut f. Hochfrequenztechnik, RWTH Aachen X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Chuck Robey wrote: > > nslookup is telling me ftp.via.exp.fr doesn't exist. Is this some > temporary snafu? Could you please double check the address you gave above? ftp.via.ecp.fr should be correct. tg From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 02:09:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA28297 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 02:09:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from gw.muc.ditec.de (gw.muc.ditec.de [194.120.126.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA28288 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 02:09:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from tartufo.muc.ditec.de (tartufo.muc.ditec.de [134.98.18.2]) by gw.muc.ditec.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA16787; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:08:05 +0100 Received: by tartufo.muc.ditec.de (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.16.1 #16.39) id ; Wed, 28 Feb 96 11:10 MET Message-Id: Date: Wed, 28 Feb 96 11:10 MET From: me@tartufo.muc.ditec.de (Michael Elbel) To: jkh@time.cdrom.com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IP filtering strawman, comments please. Newsgroups: lists.freebsd.hackers References: <12977.825448070@time.cdrom.com> Reply-To: me@gw.muc.ditec.de X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In lists.freebsd.hackers you write: >> - Masquareda certain connections for another IP's /ports/whatever. >If this feature alone were the only fall-out of a firewall redesign >project, there would be many hats in the air, I can assure you. I >have a good friend in SF myself who's finances only allow the purchase >of one IP address, but he has 5 machines on his home ethernet. I've >often wished I could tell him that FreeBSD had a solution to his >problem (and no, I'm too busy to get involved, thanks - you want to There already is a solution - install something like TIS' fwtk or socks to relay the connections from the other machines. Michael -- Michael Elbel, DITEC, Muenchen, Germany - me@muc.ditec.de Fermentation fault (coors dumped) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 02:31:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA29470 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 02:31:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA29464 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 02:31:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id CAA00377; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 02:30:48 -0800 Message-Id: <199602281030.CAA00377@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: "David Langford" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:23:26 -1000." <199602280923.XAA01126@caliban.dihelix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 02:30:47 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> "David Langford" said:, > Just being curious, but why was the SGI port of doom done? > No complaint on that- it gives me something to do with ours :) > > ID is one thing but if there is a company to go after right now, it > looks like it should be Caldera. > > >From the looks of things they may single-handedly make Linux the > MS-DOS of the '90s (*sigh*) Yeap, you got a point. There are degrees of extreme linux fanaticims. Caldera has to be right up there. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 02:36:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA29927 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 02:36:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from odyssey.ucc.ie ([143.239.1.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA29922 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 02:36:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by odyssey.ucc.ie (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA25266; Wed, 28 Feb 96 10:35:05 GMT Date: Wed, 28 Feb 96 10:35:05 GMT From: fergal@odyssey.ucc.ie (Fergal Lane) Message-Id: <9602281035.AA25266@odyssey.ucc.ie> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Need 2.0.5 fixit floppy Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I badly need a fixit floppy that will work with FreeBSD 2.0.5. Is there a fixit floppy available specifically for FreeBSD 2.0.5? There doesn't seem to be one in any of the archives. I have unsuccessfully tried using a FreeBSD 2.1 fixit floppy. Can a 2.1 fixit floppy be made to work with FreeBSD 2.0.5? Any information would be very much appreciated. Fergal Lane From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 03:20:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA02243 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 03:20:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA02050 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 03:19:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA06283; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:19:32 +0200 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:19:32 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-Reply-To: <199602272028.NAA05650@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > ----- Message body suppressed ----- > > --NAA13715.825456158/dns2.noc.best.net-- > > > > ** NOTICE **: A mailer error at BEST caused this > ** message to get messed up. If the body of the message > contains only '----- Message body suppressed -----', > then we were unable to recover the entire message and you > will have to email the person sending you this message > asking him or her to resend it. BEST apologizes for > the inconvenience. > There seems to be broken mailer out somewhere? (Not mine, as I have also received intact messages... Sander From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 04:38:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA05677 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 04:38:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from vie032.sat.co.at (sat.co.at [192.164.66.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA05671 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 04:38:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from sunwssrv by vie032.sat.co.at (8.6.12/1.57) id MAA00736; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:12:28 +0100 Message-ID: <313449AB.7BB8@sat.co.at> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:25:15 +0100 From: Andreas Pleschutznig Organization: SAT Ges.m.b.H. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Performance monitoring Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Maybe I missed some point, but I don't find the description on how to get the perfomance monitor data which I got as long as we were doing our work with BSDI. Maybe someone tells me what I've not seen ? andy -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Andreas Pleschutznig | Phone +43-1-29129-4969 | | SAT Ges.m.b.H. Wien | Ruthnergasse 1 | | e-mail: andy@sat.co.at | 1210 Wien, Austria | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 04:49:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA06247 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 04:49:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (pechter@shell.monmouth.com [205.164.220.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA06242 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 04:49:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by shell.monmouth.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA21384; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 07:46:51 -0500 From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Message-Id: <199602281246.HAA21384@shell.monmouth.com> Subject: Re: Compressing filesystem for FreeBSD To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 07:46:50 -0500 (EST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD-hackers) In-Reply-To: <199602280540.WAA06665@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Feb 27, 96 10:40:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > On my laptop it would *certainly* be worth the effort. I've got cycles > to burn since I'm the only user, and I'm more than willing to get free > disk space for my cycles. On my multi-user system, I'm more than > willing to take the performance hit for our local archives which are > rarely accessed by take up a huge amount of space. > > I think most folks who are serious about this understand the costs, and > are willing to pay them for certain applications. > > > > Nate > YES. I've manually gzipped all the binaries on my laptop and it makes the difference between having X on it and not having X on it. The performance on the IDE based 486DX2 75 mhz machine is more than my 486 DX33 ISA AHA1542 desktop (boy I have to upgrade that) and I really wish I didn't have to manually gzip all the files. I'd love a compressing filesystem which would also handle text files transparently. Bill Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Pechter/Carolyn Pechter | The postmaster always pings twice. Lakewood MicroSystems | 17 Meredith Drive, 908-389-3592 | Tinton Falls, NJ 07724 pechter@shell.monmouth.com | From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 05:44:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA08926 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 05:44:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from sys8.wfc.com (sys8.wfc.com [199.171.126.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA08921 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 05:43:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by sys8.wfc.com id AA15249; Wed, 28 Feb 96 07:43:51 -0600 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 96 07:43:51 -0600 Message-Id: <9602281343.AA15249@sys8.wfc.com> From: Mike Eggleston To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr Cc: jerry@border.com, dufault@hda.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602272228.XAA00787@keltia.freenix.fr> (message from Ollivier Robert on Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:28:29 +0100 (MET)) Subject: Re: xforms maintenance tools (was Re: Tcl/Tk sysinstall) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Ollivier" == Ollivier Robert writes: > It seems that Jerry Kendall said: >> Now I am using the xforms library and the fdesign gui builder... It >> looks great and works very well. Have decided to write some other >> utilities > Erm, do you really must use xforms ? Some of the things I saw made > with it were awful, especially menus... (tried XFmail). The > interest of dialog is that it runs on the console _and_ under X11 > (well in an xterm but it is better than only X11). Why not have a html/cgi based manager. That would run under lynx, chimera, mosaic, etc., for local and remote administration. Mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 06:25:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA10961 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 06:25:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA10838 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 06:21:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA06819; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:21:18 +0200 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:21:17 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Mike Eggleston cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: xforms maintenance tools (was Re: Tcl/Tk sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <9602281343.AA15249@sys8.wfc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Mike Eggleston wrote: > >>>>> "Ollivier" == Ollivier Robert writes: > > > It seems that Jerry Kendall said: > >> Now I am using the xforms library and the fdesign gui builder... It > >> looks great and works very well. Have decided to write some other > >> utilities > > > Erm, do you really must use xforms ? Some of the things I saw made > > with it were awful, especially menus... (tried XFmail). The > > interest of dialog is that it runs on the console _and_ under X11 > > (well in an xterm but it is better than only X11). > > Why not have a html/cgi based manager. That would run under lynx, > chimera, mosaic, etc., for local and remote administration. > > Mike > How about security? I don't feel I would like that kind of management tool... Sander From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 06:26:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA11029 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 06:26:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from sys8.wfc.com (sys8.wfc.com [199.171.126.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA11024 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 06:26:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by sys8.wfc.com id AA18009; Wed, 28 Feb 96 08:27:36 -0600 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 96 08:27:36 -0600 Message-Id: <9602281427.AA18009@sys8.wfc.com> From: Mike Eggleston To: narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: (message from Narvi on Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:21:17 +0200 (EET)) Subject: Re: xforms maintenance tools (was Re: Tcl/Tk sysinstall) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Narvi" == Narvi writes: > On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Mike Eggleston wrote: >> >>>>> "Ollivier" == Ollivier Robert >> writes: >> >> > It seems that Jerry Kendall said: >> Now I am using the xforms >> library and the fdesign gui builder... It >> looks great and works >> very well. Have decided to write some other >> utilities >> >> > Erm, do you really must use xforms ? Some of the things I saw >> made > with it were awful, especially menus... (tried XFmail). The >> > interest of dialog is that it runs on the console _and_ under X11 >> > (well in an xterm but it is better than only X11). >> >> Why not have a html/cgi based manager. That would run under lynx, >> chimera, mosaic, etc., for local and remote administration. >> >> Mike >> > How about security? I don't feel I would like that kind of > management tool... > Sander Security can be handled by the server's internal authentication protocols. For httpd just set up authentication on the single person(s) that is allowed to modify the security configurations. To me, for a company (an ISP maybe?) that had a central mis group, but all their computers/servers were distributed around the country/world, a distributed configuration/management system would be ideal. I wouldn't want to run X through a 14.4 remote dialup from around the world (I have little enough hair as it is (8) Mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 07:04:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA13039 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 07:04:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from dtr.com ([204.119.17.79]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA12858 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 07:02:47 -0800 (PST) From: bmk@dtr.com Received: (from bmk@localhost) by dtr.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id GAA02277; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 06:52:58 -0800 Message-Id: <199602281452.GAA02277@dtr.com> Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? To: langfod@dihelix.com (David Langford) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 06:52:58 -0800 (PST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602280923.XAA01126@caliban.dihelix.com> from "David Langford" at Feb 27, 96 11:23:26 pm Reply-To: bmk@dtr.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Just being curious, but why was the SGI port of doom done? > No complaint on that- it gives me something to do with ours :) Doom wasn't ported to SGI. iD uses SGI as theier primary development platform and ported it to run under DOS. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 07:43:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA15981 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 07:43:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from border.com (mail.border.com [199.71.190.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA15974 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 07:43:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by janus.border.com id <20486-1>; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:51:02 -0500 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:43:03 -0500 From: Jerry Kendall To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: xforms maintenance tools In-Reply-To: <199602272228.XAA00787@keltia.freenix.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <96Feb28.105102est.20486-1@janus.border.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Ollivier Robert wrote: > > It seems that Jerry Kendall said: > > Now I am using the xforms library and the fdesign gui builder... It looks > > great and works very well. Have decided to write some other utilities > > Erm, do you really must use xforms ? Some of the things I saw made with it > were awful, especially menus... (tried XFmail). The interest of dialog is > that it runs on the console _and_ under X11 (well in an xterm but it is > better than only X11). > > -- I am NOT trying to force every FreeBSD system to run X. I just saw a need for some tools to allow 'easy' configuration of new disks... Dialog is just NOT capable of doing what I need to do.. It has VERY SERIUOS limitations... Sorry.. It is going to be done in X(It's almost done now). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any comments or opinions in this message are my own and may or may not reflect the comments or opinions of my present or previous employers. Jerry Kendall Border Network Technologies Inc. System Software Engineer Tel +1-416-368-7157 ext 303 jerry@border.com Fax +1-416-368-7178 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 07:50:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA16744 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 07:50:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from border.com (mail.border.com [199.71.190.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA16703 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 07:50:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by janus.border.com id <20487-1>; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:57:30 -0500 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:49:11 -0500 From: Jerry Kendall To: Narvi Cc: Mike Eggleston , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xforms maintenance tools (was Re: Tcl/Tk sysinstall) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <96Feb28.105730est.20487-1@janus.border.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Narvi wrote: > > > > On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Mike Eggleston wrote: > > > >>>>> "Ollivier" == Ollivier Robert writes: > > > > > It seems that Jerry Kendall said: > > >> Now I am using the xforms library and the fdesign gui builder... It > > >> looks great and works very well. Have decided to write some other > > >> utilities > > > > > Erm, do you really must use xforms ? Some of the things I saw made > > > with it were awful, especially menus... (tried XFmail). The > > > interest of dialog is that it runs on the console _and_ under X11 > > > (well in an xterm but it is better than only X11). > > > > Why not have a html/cgi based manager. That would run under lynx, > > chimera, mosaic, etc., for local and remote administration. > > > > Mike > > > > > How about security? I don't feel I would like that kind of management > tool... > Well put!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any comments or opinions in this message are my own and may or may not reflect the comments or opinions of my present or previous employers. Jerry Kendall Border Network Technologies Inc. System Software Engineer Tel +1-416-368-7157 ext 303 jerry@border.com Fax +1-416-368-7178 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 07:53:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA17086 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 07:53:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from koala.scott.net (root@koala.scott.net [204.181.147.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA17079 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 07:53:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from jason.scott.net (dialup84.scott.net [205.241.3.84]) by koala.scott.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA19147 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:52:56 -0600 Message-ID: <31347A5A.41C67EA6@scott.net> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:52:58 -0600 From: Jason Gilbert X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xforms maintenance tools (was Re: Tcl/Tk sysinstall) References: <9602281427.AA18009@sys8.wfc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Mike Eggleston wrote: > >> Why not have a html/cgi based manager. That would run under lynx, > >> chimera, mosaic, etc., for local and remote administration. > >> > >> Mike > >> > > > How about security? I don't feel I would like that kind of > > management tool... > > > Sander > > Security can be handled by the server's internal authentication > protocols. For httpd just set up authentication on the single > person(s) that is allowed to modify the security configurations. > > To me, for a company (an ISP maybe?) that had a central mis group, but > all their computers/servers were distributed around the country/world, > a distributed configuration/management system would be ideal. > > I wouldn't want to run X through a 14.4 remote dialup from around the > world (I have little enough hair as it is (8) > > Mike Isn's this how Netscape does management for there servers?? Jason From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 08:19:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA18771 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 08:19:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from horst.bfd.com ([204.160.242.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA18759 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 08:18:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from harlie.bfd.com (bastion.bfd.com [204.160.242.2]) by horst.bfd.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA00216; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 08:14:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 08:18:50 -0800 (PST) From: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" To: me@gw.muc.ditec.de cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IP filtering strawman, comments please. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Michael Elbel wrote: > In lists.freebsd.hackers you write: > > >> - Masquareda certain connections for another IP's /ports/whatever. > > >If this feature alone were the only fall-out of a firewall redesign > >project, there would be many hats in the air, I can assure you. I > >have a good friend in SF myself who's finances only allow the purchase > >of one IP address, but he has 5 machines on his home ethernet. I've > >often wished I could tell him that FreeBSD had a solution to his > >problem (and no, I'm too busy to get involved, thanks - you want to > There already is a solution - install something like TIS' fwtk or socks > to relay the connections from the other machines. I'd rather do it that way so I could dump Linux on the firewall, but I don't have the time to configure all the proxy stuff on 75 machines running 10 different OS's, about 6 different apps (some of which I don't have source for), and optimize it so that it doesn't go through the proxy server for the intranet stuff (which is actually the bulk of the traffic). From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 08:29:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA19501 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 08:29:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA19289 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 08:26:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA05819; Wed, 28 Feb 96 10:21:29 -0600 Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA11678; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:20:59 -0700 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:20:59 -0700 Message-Id: <9602281620.AA11678@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> From: Sean Kelly To: bmk@dtr.com Cc: langfod@dihelix.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602281452.GAA02277@dtr.com> (bmk@dtr.com) Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "bmk" == bmk writes: >> Just being curious, but why was the SGI port of doom done? No >> complaint on that- it gives me something to do with ours :) bmk> Doom wasn't ported to SGI. iD uses SGI as theier primary bmk> development platform and ported it to run under DOS. I don't think this is right: I thought PC-based NeXTStep was their primary development environment. -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory, Boulder Colorado USA When I was a kid, my favorite relative was Uncle Caveman. After school we'd all go play in his cave, and every once in awhile he would eat one of us. It wasn't until later that I found out that Uncle Caveman was a bear. -- Jack Handey From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 08:39:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA20405 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 08:39:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from NetSurfer.PolyNet.Lviv.UA ([194.44.138.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA20395 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 08:38:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (ts@localhost) by NetSurfer.PolyNet.Lviv.UA (8.6.11/8.3) id SAA09956; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:38:30 +0200 From: Terletsky Slavik Message-Id: <199602281638.SAA09956@NetSurfer.PolyNet.Lviv.UA> Subject: How to start CSH under SSH-AGENT -p To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:38:30 +0000 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi I want to use sshd and need to start my csh from SSH-AGENT. How could it be done correctly-p Thanx PS in passwd i cant write-> ...:/usr/local/bin/ssh-agent /usr/local/bin/csh -l becouse of space. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 08:42:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA20793 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 08:42:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from ncd.com (firewall-user@welch.ncd.com [192.43.160.250]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA20736 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 08:41:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by ncd.com; id IAA27020; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 08:54:20 -0800 Received: from z-code.z-code.com(192.82.56.21) by welch.ncd.com via smap (g3.0.1) id xma027012; Wed, 28 Feb 96 08:54:00 -0800 Received: from zolaris.z-code.com (zolaris.z-code.com [192.82.56.41]) by z-code.z-code.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA24067; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 08:35:01 -0800 Received: by zolaris.z-code.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA24069; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 08:31:52 -0800 From: "Ulf Zimmermann" Message-Id: <9602280831.ZM24067@zolaris.z-code.com> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 08:31:50 -0800 In-Reply-To: bmk@dtr.com "Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation?" (Feb 28, 6:52) References: <199602281452.GAA02277@dtr.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 06sep94) To: bmk@dtr.com, langfod@dihelix.com (David Langford) Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Feb 28, 6:52, bmk@dtr.com wrote: > Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? > > > Just being curious, but why was the SGI port of doom done? > > No complaint on that- it gives me something to do with ours :) > > Doom wasn't ported to SGI. iD uses SGI as theier primary development > platform and ported it to run under DOS. > > >-- End of excerpt from bmk@dtr.com SGI the primary ? I heard that NeXT-Step was the primary. Hmmmm, Ulf. -- ===================================| NCD Software Div. Z-Code, SysAdmin FreeBSD 2.1.0 is available now! | Phone: 415-899-7941 Fax: 898-8299 -----------------------------------| Rowland Way 101, Novato, CA-94945 Turning PCs into Workstations | E-Mail: ulf@ncd.com ===================================| Phone @home: 510-865-0204 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 09:18:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA23579 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:18:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from DeepCore.dk (aarh2.pip.dknet.dk [194.192.0.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA23524 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:17:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sos@localhost) by DeepCore.dk (8.7.4/8.7.3) id SAA00597; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:15:04 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199602281715.SAA00597@DeepCore.dk> Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? To: sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au (Stephen Hocking) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:15:04 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199602280618.GAA19789@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> from "Stephen Hocking" at Feb 28, 96 04:18:03 pm From: sos@FreeBSD.org Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Stephen Hocking who wrote: > > As most people in the civilised world are now aware, the iD-inspired mania of > quake has started, with both DOS & Linux versions found in the appropriate > directory on ftp.cdrom.com. However, the Linux version uses the ELF libraries. Where is the Linux version, I can't find it.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 09:29:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA24613 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:29:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA24608 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:29:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0trpga-0009Z8C; Wed, 28 Feb 96 09:29 PST Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:29:07 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: David Langford , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-Reply-To: <199602281030.CAA00377@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > ID is one thing but if there is a company to go after right now, it > > looks like it should be Caldera. > > > > >From the looks of things they may single-handedly make Linux the > > MS-DOS of the '90s (*sigh*) > > Yeap, you got a point. > There are degrees of extreme linux fanaticims. Caldera has to be right up > there. Well, here is my take on things. I think that ID should be able to make their games for any operating systems they want, including Linux. If they don't want to make a FreeBSD version, then ultimately WE must get our Linux ELF emulation in shape to run that. However, I find it more than a little annoying that they push multiple Unix versions of DOOM (Solaris, SGI, QNX, Linux), as well as OS/2 and Win32 betas, out on the net, then don't support them. If you finger help@idsoftware.com (which is a NeXT box, btw), all of the Unix ports of DOOM say: "Do not send us mail about this port. We will delete it. NO CHANGE." Now this isn't a very nice attitude to take! At any rate, I must say that I probably sounded like a Linux fanatic when that was the only PC Unix I heard of, and most of us sound (to a lesser extend) like FreeBSD fanatics now. I think we get the feeling (true as it may be) that everyone would convert from Linux if only they had the "facts" in front of them. Now I've heard few objective advantages of Linux, and most seem to be the related to the greater number of users (better device driver support for XYZ random hardware, and more books on bookstore shelves) but that does not a superior OS indicate. Still, if they want to go around deluding themselves, and use FreeBSD as their primary FTP transport, as I said above, we can't do much about it, and mailbombing (or whatever) is just in bad taste As for Caldera, now that is the example of the kind of software we should be trying to get natively for FreeBSD, not the latest spiffy game. Still, in order to do so, we would have to convince the people with the money, that FreeBSD is superior for DESKTOP use, which is a bit harder point to argue than its usability as an Internet server. ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 09:52:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA26525 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:52:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from explorer.netserv.chula.ac.th (explorer.netserv.chula.ac.th [161.200.192.200]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA26517 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:52:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from pioneer.netserv.chula.ac.th (pioneer.netserv.chula.ac.th [161.200.192.12]) by explorer.netserv.chula.ac.th (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA12212 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 01:00:40 GMT Received: by pioneer.netserv.chula.ac.th (8.7.1) id AAA08996; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 00:43:43 GMT Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 00:43:42 +0000 (TST) From: Ravis Tasakorn To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Virus checking Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Dear Users I'd like to know if any of you have URL of cool sites where I can download virus killer shareware programs. It may be some of these virtual creatures living in my harddisk,Ah! :( Thank you in advance.... :) yours truly, Ravis. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 09:53:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA26607 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:53:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA26602 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:53:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA02598; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:53:11 -0800 (PST) To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: Stephen Hocking , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:34:02 PST." <199602280734.XAA00751@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:53:11 -0800 Message-ID: <2596.825529991@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Fine , arrange it . I like to go "down" fighting not standing down. Well, that's generally an admirable strategy for charging up San Juan hill (if you're Teddy Rosevelt, anyway) but I don't think that it's going to buy us anything with ID. I will, nonetheless, send a message to Dave Taylor asking him to publically clarify their position on Quake in this newsgroup. In the meantime, I think the strategy most likely to get positive results is to get folks to hack on the ELF emulation. The NetBSD camp certainly seems to be getting good results with that, and I wouldn't even be surprised to hear they got sound working at some point soon. They've been ahead in the emulation arena for some time now, and if we should be feeling bad about anything, it's that. > If they don't make port for FreeBSD can you remove the stuff from > the ftp.cdrom.com site. This is my thinking they are so in love with Huh? What stuff? You mean the ID archives? You've got to be kidding! ftp.cdrom.com is a lot more than a FreeBSD machine, it's also a PR mechanism for Walnut Creek CDROM, and at the moment the ID downloads are exceeding the FreeBSD ones by a factor of, oh, at least 3 to 1. If push came to shove, we'd go first, not ID's stuff.. :-) Please, let's not let evangelism run away with common sense here! Personally, I fail to see what the big fuss is all about. I've never even played quake and probably won't have the time anytime soon this year for it or any other game. I daresay that those of us with similar TODO-lists-from-hell are finding themselves in the same boat. All this fuss over a game? Who the hell has time to play games? I honestly couldn't care less what ID is up to. > protest of not providing a FreeBSD port. This may or may not work > but for sure the current strategy is not working . I wasn't aware that a current strategy with regard to ID themselves was needed. Again, no reason to hold anyone at gunpoint, threatening to take their FTP site away if they don't play ball (something that would hurt us [WC] a lot more than it hurt them), All those that really, truly care about this have to do is work on the Linux emulation code and they'll get ALL of ID's products, past and future, for free. That seems like a very effective strategy and one that removes our reliance upon a vendor who has already shown themselves to be somewhat hostile. > Don't mind me my old Puerto Rican blood well is boiling > and you ought to hear the keyboard and I am amazed I that have > not pop a key! :-) Nothing wrong with boiling blood, me old son, just don't let it impair your strategic thinking! This is not a scenario where repeated blows with blunt objects is going to achieve the results you desire, rather think of it more like a game of chess. They make their move, you make yours, always calculating for maximum advantage a few moves further in the game. NetBSD is already doing much of the work, so it's not even like we're faced with doing the task from scratch. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 10:01:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA27283 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:01:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA27278 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:01:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA02636; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:01:03 -0800 (PST) To: "David Langford" , "David Langford" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 27 Feb 1996 23:23:26 -1000." <199602280923.XAA01126@caliban.dihelix.com> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:01:03 -0800 Message-ID: <2634.825530463@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Just being curious, but why was the SGI port of doom done? > No complaint on that- it gives me something to do with ours :) I believe that SGI actually paid for it, or somehow sweetened the pot significantly to make it happen. Same with the Sun port. > ID is one thing but if there is a company to go after right now, it > looks like it should be Caldera. Actually, NOT Caldera. All the companies that Caldera has licensed the technology from, that's who to go for! :-) I talked with the Caldera folks for awhile at USENIX and their attitude was sort of: "well, erm, you see we didn't actually write too much of this desktop stuff ourselves - it's all licensed from people like Visix, and we've only got permission to sell Linux versions." So even though they'd like to expand their base, they really can't. Most of Caldera is just rebadged 3rd party software with very definite (and restrictive) licensing terms. They've recommended that I talk to the 3rd parties directly, and I've actually got a call into Visix as of yesterday and am waiting for a call back. I'll try again in the afternoon if I don't hear anything. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 10:03:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA27383 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:03:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA27378 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:03:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA02651; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:03:05 -0800 (PST) To: me@gw.muc.ditec.de cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IP filtering strawman, comments please. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:10:00 +0700." Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:03:05 -0800 Message-ID: <2649.825530585@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > There already is a solution - install something like TIS' fwtk or socks > to relay the connections from the other machines. I meant out of the box.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 10:05:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA27623 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:05:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA27617 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:05:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA02665; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:05:31 -0800 (PST) To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: "David Langford" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 02:30:47 PST." <199602281030.CAA00377@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:05:31 -0800 Message-ID: <2663.825530731@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Yeap, you got a point. > There are degrees of extreme linux fanaticims. Caldera has to be right up > there. How so? They were actually very friendly to me at USENIX, and expressed the wish that their licensing agreements weren't so restrictive that they couldn't do a desktop for FreeBSD as well. As far as Linux fanatics go, I didn't find Caldera to even be in the top ten. Please be careful whom you smear with that title, and make sure of your facts before posting. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 10:10:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA28010 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:10:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA27999 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:10:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA08369; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:02:08 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602281802.LAA08369@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:02:08 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, phk@critter.tfs.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Feb 27, 96 08:23:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > I gave my A2500 away last year to someone who actually had the time > > > to use it.. :-) > > > > Hope they are porting FreeBSD. > > Amiga has NetBSD.. Works pretty good, too, and is binary-compatible with > the Mac version. Hope they are porting FreeBSD anyway. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 10:18:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA28553 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:18:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from multivac.orthanc.com (multivac.orthanc.com [206.12.238.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA28540 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:18:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (lyndon@localhost) by multivac.orthanc.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA27351; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:12:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602281812.KAA27351@multivac.orthanc.com> X-Authentication-Warning: multivac.orthanc.com: Host lyndon@localhost didn't use HELO protocol From: Lyndon Nerenberg VE7TCP To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: i93mtb@infocib.ase.ro, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HELP ME In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:15:36 PST." <13045.825448536@time.cdrom.com> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:12:38 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Jordan" == Jordan K Hubbard writes: Jordan> Now the internet is provably, beyond any reasonable doubt, Jordan> too full. Some of you please log out! But my Netscape doesn't have a "logout" button ... >> What is the last virus for windows 95? The answer is simple. Windows 95 is in fact the "last" in Windows 95 viruses. The signs are clear: * The program attempts to replicate itself onto all systems in sight, using a novel and unique algorithm that co-opts broadcast- media servers around the world to aid in its propagation. * The Windows 95 virus wipes out all existing operating systems on your hard disk. * Once it has taken over the hard disk it is *extremely* difficult to remove. The consensus is that the only way to eradicate it is to perform a low-level format of the disk. Symptoms of the Windows 95 virus: * Extremely sluggish system response * Applications software starts exhibiting gratuitous failure modes * The system sends peculiar network packets. The virus is particularly hostile towards remote systems connected via PPP links. Check the CERTS archives for further details. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 10:27:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA29164 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:27:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA29141 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:25:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA02788; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:22:51 -0800 (PST) To: bmk@dtr.com cc: langfod@dihelix.com (David Langford), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 06:52:58 PST." <199602281452.GAA02277@dtr.com> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:22:51 -0800 Message-ID: <2786.825531771@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Doom wasn't ported to SGI. iD uses SGI as theier primary development > platform and ported it to run under DOS. I thought they used NeXTStep as their primary development platform? At least, that's what I was told for DOOM. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 10:29:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA29376 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:29:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from chrome.jdl.com (chrome.onramp.net [199.1.166.202]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA29371 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:29:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chrome.jdl.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA06461; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:29:27 -0600 Message-Id: <199602281829.MAA06461@chrome.jdl.com> X-Authentication-Warning: chrome.jdl.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Ravis Tasakorn cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Virus checking In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 29 Feb 1996 00:43:42 GMT." Clarity-Index: null Threat-Level: none Software-Engineering-Dead-Seriousness: There's no excuse for unreadable code. Net-thought: If you meet the Buddha on the net, put him in your Kill file. Compiler-Motto: Wintermute is dead. Long live Wintermute. Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:29:27 -0600 From: Jon Loeliger Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk So, like Ravis Tasakorn was saying to me just the other day: > Dear Users Hackers. Dear Hackers. It's a whole list full of 'em.... And how did we get a bum rap leading to Windows '95 and virus abuse? > I'd like to know if any of you have URL of cool sites where I can > download virus killer shareware programs. Isn't that multiple noun ambiguity wonderful? Are we looking for a program to squash a virus, or a really *good* virus? > It may be some of these virtual creatures living in my harddisk,Ah! :( Yes, and they sound somewhat intelligent too. Odd... jdl From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 11:12:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA03452 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:12:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from iaehv.IAEhv.nl (root@iaehv.IAEhv.nl [192.87.208.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA03447 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:12:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by iaehv.IAEhv.nl (8.6.13/1.63) id UAA08342; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 20:12:11 +0100 X-Disclaimer: iaehv.nl is a public access UNIX system and cannot be held responsible for the opinions of its individual users. Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nietzsche.bowtie.nl (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02101 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 20:06:30 +0100 Message-Id: <199602281906.UAA02101@nietzsche.bowtie.nl> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.1 5/23/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Silent reboot Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 20:06:29 +0100 From: Marc van Kempen Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Blast!, I just had my first silent reboot of my 2.1 system, one moment I was printing, the other I was staring at my bootmessages. My friend at the other side of the desk (running Windows NT) was laughing his ass off. Does anyone know a simple way how to crash a windows nt 3.51 server ? :-) Regards, Marc. ---------------------------------------------------- Marc van Kempen BowTie Technology Email: marc@bowtie.nl WWW & Databases tel. +31 40 2 43 20 65 fax. +31 40 2 44 21 86 http://www.bowtie.nl ---------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 11:21:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA04296 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:21:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from ki.net (root@ki.net [142.77.249.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA04278 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:21:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA14082; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:20:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:20:26 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Pentium gcc (pgcc) in ports... In-Reply-To: <199602280648.WAA00377@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > Well, the general consesus is that someone drop the ball and in some > programs like mpeg_play we lost oh about 30% performace from > a previous pgcc version. > Okay...that helps a little bit...but, were I to compare straight 2.7.2 against pgcc...has pgcc been patched up enough that optimizations work as you would hope, and would the current pgcc's performance be better then stock-2.7.2? Or is there a lose in performance there too? Would I be safe with replacing cc with pgcc? Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting System | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, Administrator | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://www.ki.net | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 11:27:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA04801 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:27:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA04775 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:27:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id NAA03151 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:26:51 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602281926.NAA03151@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Latest 2.1R panic. Hmm. To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:26:51 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, This is not so much a panic report as it is a growing pains report :-) My news server freaked an hour ago, when I got back from lunch it was happily running. I did "dmesg" to see the crash and got... hummin# dmesg ode segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b = DPL 0, pres 1, de\M^?\^Bran 1 processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 current process = 8891 (innd) interrupt mask = net tty bio panic: page fault syncing disks... 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 giving up Automatic reboot in 15 seconds - press a key on the console to abort Rebooting... followed by a reasonably normal boot. Well that "DPL" line looks weird BUT - _MY_ complaint is that there was not enough room to save the entire message. A typical "dmesg" output from my news server, freshly booted, is 3693 bytes from banner to changing root device. Why? Because I have lllllllllllllllllllllllllooooots of stuff connected to my news box. 390 bytes of old message was saved. That's 4083, very close to 4K. So I went looking and found #define MSG_BSIZE (4096 - 3 * sizeof(unsigned int)) in sys/msgbuf.h. There's my 4083. Ok. Well. Can I safely bump this up, recompile dmesg and friends, and be happy? (yes syslog too, I know) This also brings a larger issue to light. I've spent a lot of time tracking down these Magick Constants(tm) in BSD code. Is there a way we can at least document (or better yet make into kernel compile time options) all of these magic little critters that big machines might want to tweak? Things like MSG_BSIZE and DK_NDRIVE and... and... oh. And all the damn pieces of code that assume that one will never have more than {10,32,etc} network interfaces. That doesn't even seem to HAVE a well known constant (I really blew my stack the other day when I found #define MAXIF 10 in /usr/src/usr.bin/netstat/if.c). I would be VERY HAPPY to track down and report things like this that I find if somebody assures me that efforts will be made to correct them - preferably with some dynamic methods. I can of course submit patches that raise the constants, which is generally what I do to fix the problems.. Still it is sorta cool to run into limits ;-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 11:31:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA05231 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:31:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA05224 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:31:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA02991; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:31:07 -0800 (PST) To: Jake Hamby cc: "Amancio Hasty Jr." , David Langford , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 09:29:07 PST." Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:31:07 -0800 Message-ID: <2989.825535867@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As for Caldera, now that is the example of the kind of software we should > be trying to get natively for FreeBSD, not the latest spiffy game. I just got off the phone with Visix (and sent them some FreeBSD CDs). They didn't say "no" outright, anyway, and we'll just have to see. Porting to FreeBSD is still an implicit act of faith for any ISV of reasonable size, and it's a delicate affair. Let's just take it one step at a time. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 11:34:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA05490 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:34:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA05483 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:34:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA00729; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:33:02 -0800 Message-Id: <199602281933.LAA00729@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: "Marc G. Fournier" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Pentium gcc (pgcc) in ports... In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:20:26 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:33:01 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nope pgcc is not a replacement for gcc. Just try it. I think most people that into this sort things are using pgcc to further optimize floating point intense application and to a lesser extent integer intense applications -- provided of course that the apps compile. Amancio >>> "Marc G. Fournier" said: > On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > > Well, the general consesus is that someone drop the ball and in some > > programs like mpeg_play we lost oh about 30% performace from > > a previous pgcc version. > > > > Okay...that helps a little bit...but, were I to compare straight > 2.7.2 against pgcc...has pgcc been patched up enough that optimizations > work as you would hope, and would the current pgcc's performance be better > then stock-2.7.2? Or is there a lose in performance there too? > > Would I be safe with replacing cc with pgcc? > > Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting > System | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, > Administrator | | Information and > scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://www.ki.net | Communications, Inc > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 11:35:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA05546 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:35:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA05540 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:35:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA03026; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:34:22 -0800 (PST) To: Lyndon Nerenberg VE7TCP cc: i93mtb@infocib.ase.ro, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HELP ME In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:12:38 PST." <199602281812.KAA27351@multivac.orthanc.com> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:34:21 -0800 Message-ID: <3024.825536061@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > The answer is simple. Windows 95 is in fact the "last" in Windows 95 > viruses. The signs are clear: Your logic, sir, is irrefutable. Maybe I was wrong - perhaps this WAS the correct mailing list to ask the question of. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 11:54:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA06673 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:54:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA06668 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:54:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA00946; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:53:07 -0800 Message-Id: <199602281953.LAA00946@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Jake Hamby , David Langford , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:31:07 PST." <2989.825535867@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:53:06 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well okay don't get quake , get Terminal Velocity with 3d hardware support and of course a GUS MAX except that it only works in dos land. >>> "Jordan K. Hubbard" said: > > As for Caldera, now that is the example of the kind of software we should > > be trying to get natively for FreeBSD, not the latest spiffy game. I still think that games are a preferred commodity to go after than more geek stuff. This is sort of a split between scientific or business market vs. the home market. In fact, both markets are not mutually exclusive. Actually, I think is very hard to sell the merit of games or entertainment to an OS and Unix centered group such as this. It used to be hard to sell the multimedia stuff, audio and video. Now is hard to sell the idea of games. At least there is progress. Oh Well... > I just got off the phone with Visix (and sent them some FreeBSD CDs). > They didn't say "no" outright, anyway, and we'll just have to see. > Porting to FreeBSD is still an implicit act of faith for any ISV of > reasonable size, and it's a delicate affair. Let's just take it one > step at a time. > Cool! Our fearless leader in action. BTW: Any other companies that we think should be approach? Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 12:02:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA07213 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:02:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA07204 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:02:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0trs4Y-000I7gC; Wed, 28 Feb 96 21:02 MET Received: by ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0trrRH-00001OC; Wed, 28 Feb 96 20:21 MET Message-Id: From: hm@altona.hamburg.com (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: xforms maintenance tools (was Re: Tcl/Tk sysinstall) To: mikee@sys8.wfc.com (Mike Eggleston) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 20:21:27 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9602281343.AA15249@sys8.wfc.com> from "Mike Eggleston" at Feb 28, 96 07:43:51 am Reply-To: hm@altona.hamburg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From the keyboard of Mike Eggleston: > Why not have a html/cgi based manager. That would run under lynx, > chimera, mosaic, etc., for local and remote administration. Seconded. IMHO such a maintenance tool must not only run in an X based environment but also in a character based environment. One should use a toolkit which runs under both X and curses. hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 12:07:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA07554 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:07:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA07542 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:07:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA01079; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:07:09 -0800 Message-Id: <199602282007.MAA01079@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "David Langford" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:05:31 PST." <2663.825530731@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:07:09 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> "Jordan K. Hubbard" said: > > Yeap, you got a point. > > There are degrees of extreme linux fanaticims. Caldera has to be right up > > there. > > How so? They were actually very friendly to me at USENIX, and > expressed the wish that their licensing agreements weren't so > restrictive that they couldn't do a desktop for FreeBSD as well. > > As far as Linux fanatics go, I didn't find Caldera to even be > in the top ten. Please be careful whom you smear with that > title, and make sure of your facts before posting. > Okay, their Linux project over at Novell got cancelled and they just went off and started their own company to continue their work. Fine they are not linux fanatics. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 12:09:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA07697 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:09:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA07688 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:09:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA03159; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:08:30 -0800 (PST) To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: Jake Hamby , David Langford , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:53:06 PST." <199602281953.LAA00946@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:08:29 -0800 Message-ID: <3157.825538109@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Actually, I think is very hard to sell the merit of games or entertainment > to an OS and Unix centered group such as this. It used to be hard to sell I don't think that anyone disputes the merit of games, Amancio. And back before we got too busy to do so, we were even known to play them occasionally ("Alone in the dark" was a virtual 2 week obsession for me back when it came out). I'm still trying to get 3D toolkits and such ported over here, and before Microsoft pulled the rug out from under RenderMorphics I thought we were doing pretty well in that area (Doug and I put a lot of effort into making that happen, too :-( ). Like I said, one step at a time. Nobody here has it in for you or for games, Amancio, and if ID called me on the phone right now and said "OK, we'll do Quake for FreeBSD but only if you do the work of porting it." I'd be booking a flight on Ten Gallon Airways (so known because they never land with more than that much fuel in the tanks - it wouldn't be a challenge otherwise) right this very minute. I'd love to see a native version of Quake running, if only for the sheer PR value alone. But that's not likely to happen, and I've accepted this, so I go on to other more potentially valuable endevours. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 12:19:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA08251 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:19:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA08246 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:19:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA01222; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:18:11 -0800 Message-Id: <199602282018.MAA01222@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Jake Hamby , David Langford , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:08:29 PST." <3157.825538109@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:18:10 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Okay, I understand your position is just that when the linux crowd has pestered vendors for support they usually have gotten what they want. From my own personal experience and lets set aside ID because we all know we are not going to get anywhere with them, every time I talk to a vendor about FreeBSD I sort of have to explain it in terms of Linux. Well have you heard of Linux , we are just like that public domain. Vendor says "Oh, I see I understand. Well we have received many requests for Linux however just one right now for FreeBSD if there further requests to port our to FreeBSD we may consider doing a port" Amancio >>> "Jordan K. Hubbard" said: > > Actually, I think is very hard to sell the merit of games or entertainment > > to an OS and Unix centered group such as this. It used to be hard to sell > > I don't think that anyone disputes the merit of games, Amancio. And > back before we got too busy to do so, we were even known to play them > occasionally ("Alone in the dark" was a virtual 2 week obsession for > me back when it came out). I'm still trying to get 3D toolkits and > such ported over here, and before Microsoft pulled the rug out from > under RenderMorphics I thought we were doing pretty well in that area > (Doug and I put a lot of effort into making that happen, too :-( ). > > Like I said, one step at a time. Nobody here has it in for you or for > games, Amancio, and if ID called me on the phone right now and said > "OK, we'll do Quake for FreeBSD but only if you do the work of porting > it." I'd be booking a flight on Ten Gallon Airways (so known because > they never land with more than that much fuel in the tanks - it > wouldn't be a challenge otherwise) right this very minute. I'd love > to see a native version of Quake running, if only for the sheer PR > value alone. But that's not likely to happen, and I've accepted this, > so I go on to other more potentially valuable endevours. > > Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 12:23:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA08611 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:23:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA08605 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:23:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA08729; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:16:05 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602282016.NAA08729@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:16:05 -0700 (MST) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, root@dihelix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Feb 28, 96 09:29:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > ID is one thing but if there is a company to go after right now, it > > > looks like it should be Caldera. > > > > > > >From the looks of things they may single-handedly make Linux the > > > MS-DOS of the '90s (*sigh*) > > > > Yeap, you got a point. > > There are degrees of extreme linux fanaticims. Caldera has to be right up > > there. [ ... ] > As for Caldera, now that is the example of the kind of software we should > be trying to get natively for FreeBSD, not the latest spiffy game. > Still, in order to do so, we would have to convince the people with the > money, that FreeBSD is superior for DESKTOP use, which is a bit harder > point to argue than its usability as an Internet server. I know nearly *everybody* at Caldera. I either worked with them, on the same floor as them, or one floor above in the small building we all occupied. There are two exceptions: one of the guys hired out of Novell Provo, and the German guy (Peter?) who pushed WWW at Novell and got (internally, at least) famous as well. I think the biggest GPL fanatic there is Jim Freeman (hi Jim!) and it doesn't make him anything less than a great guy. The point about "is it a good desktop" is pretty moot. I remember the meeting with Kanwahl Rheki in the downstairs conference room; Ray Noorda was attending. KR was VP over Novell/USG immediately following the USL purchase, and he was announcing "deemphasizing UnixWare as a destop OS". This was right after the DR-DOS life cycle termination. After a series of questions and answers about the lawsuit, we moved on to other topics, and I asked "will UnixWare be sold as a desktop OS?" The answer was "No". I asked "will DR DOS be developed further?" The answer was "No". I asked "then what *Novell* operating system will people be running on their desktop?" The answer was hemming and hawing. Then Ray left. For Caldera, FreeBSD isn't the enemy: Microsoft is. But I think you are deluding yourself if you think they are going to switch horses or try to ride two horses in their race to beat Microsoft. If you want something similar for FreeBSD, then you need to make a similar commitment, in terms of willingness to throw everything you have behind a business idea. And risk it all, like Caldera has. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 12:24:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA08700 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:24:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA08559 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:22:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA01272; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:20:46 -0800 Message-Id: <199602282020.MAA01272@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: bmk@dtr.com, langfod@dihelix.com (David Langford), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 10:22:51 PST." <2786.825531771@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:20:46 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >>> "Jordan K. Hubbard" said: > > Doom wasn't ported to SGI. iD uses SGI as theier primary development > > platform and ported it to run under DOS. > > I thought they used NeXTStep as their primary development platform? > At least, that's what I was told for DOOM. > Yeap, they used NeXStep as their primary development platform however I think they switch to SGI for doing 3D rendering which makes sense given the high 3d rendering and animation available for the SGI boxes. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 12:30:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA09075 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:30:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA09070 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:30:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA08748; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:20:55 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602282020.NAA08748@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:20:55 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jfieber@indiana.edu, jerry@border.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199602280748.IAA05482@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from "Luigi Rizzo" at Feb 28, 96 08:48:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I think if you cared about speed, you'd buy more disk. > > Oh, but I want both speed and compression :) Well, you can pray to Hermes for the speed, but I have no idea which of the Greek gods handles compression. Maybe Cybelle? 8-P. Short of some type of divine intervention, however, I think they must be inversely proportional. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 12:34:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA09332 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:34:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA09323 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:34:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA08769; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:27:08 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602282027.NAA08769@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Silent reboot To: marc@bowtie.nl (Marc van Kempen) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:27:08 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602281906.UAA02101@nietzsche.bowtie.nl> from "Marc van Kempen" at Feb 28, 96 08:06:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I just had my first silent reboot of my 2.1 system, one moment I > was printing, the other I was staring at my bootmessages. My > friend at the other side of the desk (running Windows NT) was > laughing his ass off. Does anyone know a simple way how to > crash a windows nt 3.51 server ? :-) There is a logout/login race you can exploit by running a CPU intensive background process before logging out so that you can get priveledges you shouldn't have on the way back in. I forget the exact details; someone posted a program to one of the security groups. Alternately, run a console mode app that includes ifsmgr.inc from the DDK and make an int 20 VXD call gate trap to one of the IFS functions and watch it die (this will kill Win95 as well). Silly, isn't it? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 12:34:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA09333 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:34:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from dtr.com ([204.119.17.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA09211 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:32:52 -0800 (PST) From: bmk@dtr.com Received: (from bmk@localhost) by dtr.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA01542; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:23:08 -0800 Message-Id: <199602282023.MAA01542@dtr.com> Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? To: ulf@z-code.ncd.com (Ulf Zimmermann) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:23:08 -0800 (PST) Cc: bmk@dtr.com, langfod@dihelix.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9602280831.ZM24067@zolaris.z-code.com> from "Ulf Zimmermann" at Feb 28, 96 08:31:50 am Reply-To: bmk@dtr.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > On Feb 28, 6:52, bmk@dtr.com wrote: > > Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? > > > > > Just being curious, but why was the SGI port of doom done? > > > No complaint on that- it gives me something to do with ours :) > > > > Doom wasn't ported to SGI. iD uses SGI as theier primary development > > platform and ported it to run under DOS. > > > > > >-- End of excerpt from bmk@dtr.com > SGI the primary ? I heard that NeXT-Step was the primary. Hmmm... It seems that I'm suffering from brain damage. :) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 12:36:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA09678 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:36:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA09671 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:36:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA03302; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:35:47 -0800 (PST) To: Jon Loeliger cc: Ravis Tasakorn , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Virus checking In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:29:27 CST." <199602281829.MAA06461@chrome.jdl.com> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:35:46 -0800 Message-ID: <3299.825539746@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk [ Oh dear, it's as I thought ] > Jon Loelinger writes: > >>So, like Ravis Tasakorn was saying to me just the other day: >> Dear Users >> >> I'd like to know if any of you have URL of cool sites where I can >> download virus killer shareware programs. >> >> It may be some of these virtual creatures living in my harddisk,Ah! :( >> > > Yes, and they sound somewhat intelligent too. Odd... Only just.. I did think to subject Ravis to a turing test in a short round of private email, and he failed it, so I'd say this is simply another manifestation of the MAILBOMBER virus they've been talking about over on AOL. Yep, MAILBOMBER is one of the more insidious little virii to come out of Eastern Europe. It apparently forges mail from a randomly constructed alias and posts it to a randomly selected mailing list (ours, unfortunately, appearing to be one of compiled-in choices). The topic of the message is, of course, viruses and whether you have any information on them. It then scans the replies it gets to see if the keyword MAILBOMBER appears anywhere, thus cleverly measuring its own levels of notoriety and taking various protective measures when certain thresholds are exceeded. Fortunately, numerous bugs in its natural language output algorithm make it rather easy to catch. It seems that the author wasn't a native speaker of english, and he coded certain linguistic misunderstandings on his part directly into the virus. In short, it may be a highly sophisticated piece of work, but it still speaks terrible english. Hopefully my mention of it 3 times in this message should trigger its response mechanism into fleeing this particular mailing list. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 12:47:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA10459 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:47:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from DeepCore.dk (aarh25.pip.dknet.dk [194.192.0.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA10434 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:47:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sos@localhost) by DeepCore.dk (8.7.4/8.7.3) id TAA00810; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 19:41:57 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199602281841.TAA00810@DeepCore.dk> Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 19:41:57 +0100 (MET) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <2596.825529991@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 28, 96 09:53:11 am From: sos@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In reply to Jordan K. Hubbard who wrote: > > > protest of not providing a FreeBSD port. This may or may not work > > but for sure the current strategy is not working . > > I wasn't aware that a current strategy with regard to ID themselves > was needed. Again, no reason to hold anyone at gunpoint, threatening > to take their FTP site away if they don't play ball (something that > would hurt us [WC] a lot more than it hurt them), All those that > really, truly care about this have to do is work on the Linux > emulation code and they'll get ALL of ID's products, past and future, > for free. That seems like a very effective strategy and one that > removes our reliance upon a vendor who has already shown themselves to > be somewhat hostile. Amen ! > > Don't mind me my old Puerto Rican blood well is boiling > > and you ought to hear the keyboard and I am amazed I that have > > not pop a key! > > :-) > > Nothing wrong with boiling blood, me old son, just don't let it impair > your strategic thinking! This is not a scenario where repeated blows > with blunt objects is going to achieve the results you desire, rather > think of it more like a game of chess. They make their move, you make > yours, always calculating for maximum advantage a few moves further in > the game. NetBSD is already doing much of the work, so it's not even > like we're faced with doing the task from scratch. We just need the ELF loader, most if not all of the rest is allready there. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 13:09:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA12255 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:09:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from border.com (mail.border.com [199.71.190.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA12248 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:09:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by janus.border.com id <20483-2>; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:16:51 -0500 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:08:48 -0500 From: Jerry Kendall To: Hellmuth Michaelis Cc: Mike Eggleston , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: xforms maintenance tools (was Re: Tcl/Tk sysinstall) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <96Feb28.161651est.20483-2@janus.border.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Hellmuth Michaelis wrote: > > From the keyboard of Mike Eggleston: > > > Why not have a html/cgi based manager. That would run under lynx, > > chimera, mosaic, etc., for local and remote administration. > > Seconded. IMHO such a maintenance tool must not only run in an X based > environment but also in a character based environment. > > One should use a toolkit which runs under both X and curses. > > hellmuth Memory is cheap. So is disk space... Run X... or use 'fdisk' and 'disklabel' and do it the old way. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any comments or opinions in this message are my own and may or may not reflect the comments or opinions of my present or previous employers. Jerry Kendall Border Network Technologies Inc. System Software Engineer Tel +1-416-368-7157 ext 303 jerry@border.com Fax +1-416-368-7178 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 13:10:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA12334 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:10:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from border.com (mail.border.com [199.71.190.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA12323 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:09:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by janus.border.com id <20487-2>; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:17:32 -0500 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:09:33 -0500 From: Jerry Kendall To: Hellmuth Michaelis Cc: Mike Eggleston , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: xforms maintenance tools (was Re: Tcl/Tk sysinstall) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <96Feb28.161732est.20487-2@janus.border.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Hellmuth Michaelis wrote: > > From the keyboard of Mike Eggleston: > > > Why not have a html/cgi based manager. That would run under lynx, > > chimera, mosaic, etc., for local and remote administration. > > Seconded. IMHO such a maintenance tool must not only run in an X based > environment but also in a character based environment. > > One should use a toolkit which runs under both X and curses. > > hellmuth > -- All these tools are ONLY available under X/Openwindows on Sun systems.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any comments or opinions in this message are my own and may or may not reflect the comments or opinions of my present or previous employers. Jerry Kendall Border Network Technologies Inc. System Software Engineer Tel +1-416-368-7157 ext 303 jerry@border.com Fax +1-416-368-7178 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 13:31:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA14626 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:31:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA14618 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:31:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA01773; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:30:50 -0800 Message-Id: <199602282130.NAA01773@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:31:07 PST." <2989.825535867@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:30:49 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Bad, bad, day. Just finish giving a pointer to a linux user to the matrox meteor stuff. Yes, I was polite and courteus. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 13:35:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA15009 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:35:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from chrome.jdl.com (chrome.onramp.net [199.1.166.202]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA14995 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:35:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chrome.jdl.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA07301; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 15:34:38 -0600 Message-Id: <199602282134.PAA07301@chrome.jdl.com> X-Authentication-Warning: chrome.jdl.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Joe Greco cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Latest 2.1R panic. Hmm. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:26:51 CST." <199602281926.NAA03151@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Clarity-Index: null Threat-Level: none Software-Engineering-Dead-Seriousness: There's no excuse for unreadable code. Net-thought: If you meet the Buddha on the net, put him in your Kill file. Compiler-Motto: Wintermute is dead. Long live Wintermute. Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 15:34:38 -0600 From: Jon Loeliger Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk So, like Joe Greco was saying to me just the other day: > Still it is sorta cool to run into limits ;-) And, on the other hand, it's kinda cool NOT to too: This is command 8464 in one window: chrome 8464 % ps auxwww | grep bin/emacs jdl 405 0.0 9.8 5956 1380 v0 SN 4Feb96 29:03.22 /usr/ local/bin/emacs -display :0 -geometry 80x50+675+0 -f server-start That's a single emacs that's been running for almost a month (24 days). OK, it's been niced, but it's a big bad mother with almost 100 buffers, of which one is 70K shy of 1 Meg, totalling 2.8 Meg I'm emacsifying. Which implies an up machine for: chrome 8466 % uptime 3:19PM up 24 days, 20:01, 7 users, load averages: 0.14, 0.07, 0.02 And over here in this window, ping's annoying the shit out of my ISP at 60 second intervals (they're having trouble originating a call to me): 64 bytes from w.x.y.z: icmp_seq=31575 ttl=252 time=44.803 ms That's a 526 hour (or 22 day) ISDN phone call. I *love* FreeBSD. jdl From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 13:35:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA15050 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:35:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA15045 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:35:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA08984; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:27:28 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602282127.OAA08984@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:27:28 -0700 (MST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, jehamby@lightside.com, root@dihelix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602281953.LAA00946@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Feb 28, 96 11:53:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Cool! Our fearless leader in action. > > BTW: Any other companies that we think should be approach? America On Line. We need AOL client software. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 13:36:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA15224 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:36:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA15217 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:36:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.4/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id NAA20986; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:36:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:36:01 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: Stephen Hocking , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-Reply-To: <199602280646.WAA00360@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > The icing on the cake, if I am not mistaken the main ftp site for iD > stuff is ftp.cdrom.com. > Amancio ftp.idsoftware.com == Chris Layne ============================================================== == coredump@nervosa.com ================= http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 13:37:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA15298 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:37:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA15289 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:37:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA08995; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:29:11 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602282129.OAA08995@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:29:11 -0700 (MST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, root@dihelix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199602282007.MAA01079@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Feb 28, 96 12:07:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > As far as Linux fanatics go, I didn't find Caldera to even be > > in the top ten. Please be careful whom you smear with that > > title, and make sure of your facts before posting. > > > > Okay, their Linux project over at Novell got cancelled and they just > went off and started their own company to continue their work. > Fine they are not linux fanatics. The "UNIX as desktop software" project got cancelled. This is different than "their Linux project over at Novell". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 13:40:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA15730 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:40:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA15721 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:40:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA09018; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:32:22 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602282132.OAA09018@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:32:21 -0700 (MST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, jehamby@lightside.com, root@dihelix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602282018.MAA01222@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Feb 28, 96 12:18:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Okay, I understand your position is just that when the linux crowd has > pestered vendors for support they usually have gotten what they > want. From my own personal experience and lets set aside ID because > we all know we are not going to get anywhere with them, every time > I talk to a vendor about FreeBSD I sort of have to explain it in > terms of Linux. Well have you heard of Linux , we are just like > that public domain. Vendor says "Oh, I see I understand. Well we have > received many requests for Linux however just one right now for > FreeBSD if there further requests to port our to FreeBSD we may > consider doing a port" The situation is not aided by the fact that the BSD camp emulates the Linux ABI sufficiently well that companies are of the opinion that they can save themselves a porting effort. The problem with ABI's is that they are short term gain, but long term loss. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 13:45:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA16187 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:45:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA16178 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:45:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA03741; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:44:00 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.), jehamby@lightside.com, root@dihelix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:27:28 MST." <199602282127.OAA08984@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:44:00 -0800 Message-ID: <3739.825543840@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > We need AOL client software. I'm sorry, Terry, but we have to kill you now. We don't want to, but it's a duty. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 13:46:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA16296 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:46:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA16269 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:46:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.4/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id NAA21077; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:45:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:45:42 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: David Greenman cc: "Amancio Hasty Jr." , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Stephen Hocking , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-Reply-To: <199602280803.AAA05147@Root.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, David Greenman wrote: > No, that would be *extremely* childish and bad business to boot. Besides, > You can put me on record as saying that I think it's very bad policy to > sink to the levels of the Linux fanatics. > > David Greenman I totally agree with that. We shouldn't drop to id's level in order to make them look stupid. Also, if one looks in quake talk, whatever the latest version is, id has said multiple times that the source code for the server will be avaliable, but the source for the client will not. At this point, it looks like we can run a Quake server on FreeBSD if this is the case. I may be wrong. == Chris Layne ============================================================== == coredump@nervosa.com ================= http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 13:48:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA16483 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:48:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA16451 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:48:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA03783; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:47:23 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.), jehamby@lightside.com, root@dihelix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:32:21 MST." <199602282132.OAA09018@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:47:23 -0800 Message-ID: <3781.825544043@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > The situation is not aided by the fact that the BSD camp emulates > the Linux ABI sufficiently well that companies are of the opinion > that they can save themselves a porting effort. That depends on whether or not you view the UNIX market as one capable of sustaining native versions of all the major players anymore. No good winning a battle if it costs you the war. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 13:55:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA17214 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:55:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA17206 Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:55:48 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199602282155.NAA17206@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Latest 2.1R panic. Hmm. To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:55:47 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602281926.NAA03151@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Feb 28, 96 01:26:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Joe Greco wrote: > #define MSG_BSIZE (4096 - 3 * sizeof(unsigned int)) > > in sys/msgbuf.h. There's my 4083. > > Ok. Well. Can I safely bump this up, recompile dmesg and friends, and be > happy? (yes syslog too, I know) i bumped mine to 8k. two weeks ago while hammering on the anaconda scsi tape drive. no problem (with teh 8k) (report on anaconda scsi in findal review) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 13:59:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA17792 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:59:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA17766 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:59:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA02172; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:58:54 -0800 Message-Id: <199602282158.NAA02172@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: invalid opcode cc: Stephen Hocking , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:36:01 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:58:53 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> invalid opcode said: > On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > > The icing on the cake, if I am not mistaken the main ftp site for iD > > stuff is ftp.cdrom.com. > > Amancio > > ftp.idsoftware.com Long time ago they just had some funky linux box which supported something like 10 or 20 users. It say something in the readme banner: "Now way man this cant be linux running an ftp server" or something to that effect Not that it matters much I tried accessing their ftp site but no luck probably a quake overload. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 14:00:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA18062 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:00:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA18054 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:00:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.4/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id NAA21176; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:59:27 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:59:27 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: Terry Lambert cc: terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, phk@critter.tfs.com, narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... In-Reply-To: <199602272218.PAA06233@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > No, ISA cards must die. > Terry Lambert No, PCI cards must die. == Chris Layne ============================================================== == coredump@nervosa.com ================= http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 14:00:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA18121 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:00:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA18105 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:00:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.4/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id NAA21169; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:58:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:58:44 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Narvi , Poul-Henning Kamp , Jake Hamby , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... In-Reply-To: <12662.825442441@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > So was EISA. The point is that we didn't need a VLB bus and we almost > certainly didn't need PCI - we just needed to finish making EISA > better (wider and faster) and we'd have then seen motherboards with 8 > or more *entirely general purpose* slots, not this split bus crap we > see now. The decision to kill EISA was a pure marketing one - nobody > Jordan Exactly. It's just very discouraging to have to know that nothing it consistent and you basically have to kludge everything on the ibm pc platform. == Chris Layne ============================================================== == coredump@nervosa.com ================= http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 14:01:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA18261 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:01:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA18255 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:01:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.4/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id OAA21201; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:00:49 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:00:48 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: Terry Lambert cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , phk@critter.tfs.com, narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... In-Reply-To: <199602272017.NAA05585@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > EISA would have had to have changed significantly, and a lot of cards > Terry Lambert Well don't you think it's a pretty damn significant change from ISA, EISA -> PCI ? == Chris Layne ============================================================== == coredump@nervosa.com ================= http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 14:04:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA18606 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:04:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA18546 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:04:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA02197; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:02:35 -0800 Message-Id: <199602282202.OAA02197@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Terry Lambert , jehamby@lightside.com, root@dihelix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:44:00 PST." <3739.825543840@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:02:34 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hmm... AT&T is going into the ISP business so I am wondering if they are going to require anything special to be able to connect to their network. I heard something like they may even allow upto five hours a month for free just to let people get hook on the Net. Amancio >>> "Jordan K. Hubbard" said: > > We need AOL client software. > > I'm sorry, Terry, but we have to kill you now. We don't want to, but > it's a duty. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 14:05:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA18739 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:05:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA18636 Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:04:22 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199602282204.OAA18636@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? To: bmk@dtr.com Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:04:21 -0800 (PST) Cc: ulf@z-code.ncd.com, langfod@dihelix.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602282023.MAA01542@dtr.com> from "bmk@dtr.com" at Feb 28, 96 12:23:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk bmk@dtr.com wrote: > > > > On Feb 28, 6:52, bmk@dtr.com wrote: > > > Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? > > > > > > > Just being curious, but why was the SGI port of doom done? > > > > No complaint on that- it gives me something to do with ours :) > > > > > > Doom wasn't ported to SGI. iD uses SGI as theier primary development > > > platform and ported it to run under DOS. > > > > > > > > >-- End of excerpt from bmk@dtr.com > > > SGI the primary ? I heard that NeXT-Step was the primary. > > Hmmm... It seems that I'm suffering from brain damage. :) > > > happens. stop playing doom and/or quake for a while ;) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 14:12:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA19640 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:12:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA19627 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:12:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.4/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id OAA21229; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:11:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:11:17 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: Jake Hamby cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Narvi , Poul-Henning Kamp , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > Speaking of marketing, EISA was always positioned as the high-end board > for SERVERS, so both the motherboard and cards were always more > expensive. Only a few high-end desktop machines (e.g. Compaq, which I > wouldn't buy for incompatibility reasons alone), came with EISA as > standard. This continued to be true throughout VLB and PCI. If boards > and cards were AVAILABLE and AFFORDABLE, then I would've bought into EISA > like a shot, but it was always positioned as a "server" solution only.. > ---Jake But see, you notice all the bus designs that actually MAKE SENSE, (whoa what's that new term?), are the ones that are consistent, don't share bus space with other forms, fast, and allow software configurablility of the boards. The only BUS designs I can think of are EISA and NUBUS. == Chris Layne ============================================================== == coredump@nervosa.com ================= http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 14:16:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA20078 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:16:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA20065 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:16:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) id WAA15921; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 22:45:19 +0100 (MET) Received: from knobel.gun.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobel.gun.de (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA00737; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 22:38:23 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 22:38:23 +0100 (MET) From: Andreas Klemm To: Stefan Esser cc: Rashid Karimov , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Disk perf. with different HDs/Adapt. In-Reply-To: <199602232004.AA07830@Sysiphos> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 23 Feb 1996, Stefan Esser wrote: > On Feb 23, 14:26, Rashid Karimov wrote: > } Subject: Disk perf. with different HDs/Adapt. > } Hi there folx, > } > } > } Who are Today's Fastest ? :) Please use bonnie to bench your disks. Make sure, that the size of the tmp file is about 4 times as large as main memory. Default for bonnie is 100MB. Benchmarks with files that are transferred in about 2-7 secons are not serious. The question is what you want to bench ... Harddisk/bus performance or memory (cache) performance... :-> -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ $$ Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de $$ pgp p-key http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-toplev.html >>> powered by <<< ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz >>> FreeBSD <<< "Ich bleibe bei der Aussage und trotze den Flames. :-)" Ulli Horlacher 02/96 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 14:16:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA20084 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:16:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA20067 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:16:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.4/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id OAA21243; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:16:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:16:25 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: Narvi cc: Jake Hamby , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Narvi wrote: > Talking about real good GUIs... How do you define one? Windows certainly > Sander NeXTStep. Why is it that all good ideas are never liked by the stupid human public. == Chris Layne ============================================================== == coredump@nervosa.com ================= http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 14:18:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA20267 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:18:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA20260 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:18:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.4/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id OAA21257; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:18:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:18:41 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: Jake Hamby cc: John Fieber , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > I agree, 110%! Come to think of it, the ONLY programs I've seen with a > decent GUI (that are available on more than one vendor's flavor of Unix) > are Netscape, and MAYBE Emacs. That is if you don't count WINE, WABI, > TWIN, and Softwindows (evil grin!) ;-) > ---Jake See, I see a slight problem here, I don't know if it's me, but I see the proper way as their being a base GUI (i.e. twm, motif, win95, macos, whatever), and having Applications conform to that GUI, not make seperate sub-GUI's up for their own application. == Chris Layne ============================================================== == coredump@nervosa.com ================= http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 14:21:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA20496 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:21:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA20487 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:21:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA09082; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 15:23:42 -0700 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 15:23:42 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199602282223.PAA09082@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Jerry Kendall Cc: Hellmuth Michaelis , Mike Eggleston , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: xforms maintenance tools (was Re: Tcl/Tk sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <96Feb28.161651est.20483-2@janus.border.com> References: <96Feb28.161651est.20483-2@janus.border.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > One should use a toolkit which runs under both X and curses. > > Memory is cheap. So is disk space... Yeah right. 16MB of memory is $700, and 1 Gig of disk is around $1500 for my laptop. I can buy a fully loaded desktop Pentium for the cost of those two parts alone. A laptop that runs X nicely is gonna cost you about $5k, which is more than most can spend. A laptop that can run FreeBSD nicely will set you back about $2.5K, about half. X is *not* an option for many laptop owners, and judging for the responses I've seen recently laptop computing is becoming very popular (and common). Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 14:24:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA20770 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:24:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA20586 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:22:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.4/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id OAA21279; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:21:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:21:07 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: bmk@dtr.com cc: David Langford , jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-Reply-To: <199602281452.GAA02277@dtr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Feb 1996 bmk@dtr.com wrote: > Doom wasn't ported to SGI. iD uses SGI as theier primary development > platform and ported it to run under DOS. No wrong. The id artists use SGI for their graphics work. id uses the ibm pc for there primary development platform, and the NeXT for miscellaneous duties, i.e. level design. == Chris Layne ============================================================== == coredump@nervosa.com ================= http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 14:25:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA20829 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:25:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA20821 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:25:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0truIz-0009YvC; Wed, 28 Feb 96 14:25 PST Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:25:05 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Terry Lambert , "Amancio Hasty Jr." , root@dihelix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-Reply-To: <3781.825544043@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > The situation is not aided by the fact that the BSD camp emulates > > the Linux ABI sufficiently well that companies are of the opinion > > that they can save themselves a porting effort. > > That depends on whether or not you view the UNIX market as one capable > of sustaining native versions of all the major players anymore. No > good winning a battle if it costs you the war. Well, certainly being able to run the Linux version is better than no version at all, right? Also, if our Linux ABI is reasonably efficient (as it seems to be), then would there be any significant further gain to make a "native" port? For many applications, it seems unlikely. After all, we're just patching Linux system calls through to our kernel, it's not as if we actually have to go user their crummy KERNEL (although we do have to use their shared libraries...). Anyway, I agree with Jordan on this, better to work on the ELF support in FreeBSD then tell vendors, "Oh by the way, the Linux version of your program works GREAT on FreeBSD, why don't you advertise it as FreeBSD-compatible too (and maybe think about doing a native port for your next version)?" :-) ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 14:26:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA20913 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:26:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA20908 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:26:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.4/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id OAA21300; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:25:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:25:45 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: Jake Hamby cc: "Amancio Hasty Jr." , David Langford , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > heard of, and most of us sound (to a lesser extend) like FreeBSD fanatics > ---Jake I don't agree with this, we are actually trying to support Linux, if we were fanatics, we would say: ext2fs, linux emulation, screw that shit. Also, does Linux have any FreeBSD emulators? == Chris Layne ============================================================== == coredump@nervosa.com ================= http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 14:28:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA21126 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:28:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from spooky.eis.net.au (spooky.eis.net.au [203.12.171.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA21112 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:28:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ernie@localhost) by spooky.eis.net.au (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA11990 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:39:44 +1000 Message-Id: <199602282239.IAA11990@spooky.eis.net.au> Subject: pcvt tweaking To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:39:43 +1000 (EST) From: "Ernie Elu" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I am trying to run pcvt in 132 column mode under FreeBSD 2.1 as the 80column limit on the standard syscons driver is a waste on my 17" screen. pcvt seems to be working except for a couple of things. Underlined text comes out as white text on an orange background with no underline at all. Bold text comes out as white text on a blue background. Any ideas on how to get these working right? Anyone know how to get coloured text on the 132 x 40 screen? scon -p does not seem to do anything. Also has anyone hacked the keyboard setup so that you can switch consoles with alt+F instead of ctrl+alt+F ? - Ernie. _____________________________________________________________________ Ernie Elu - ernie@eis.net.au - Brisbane - Australia "I ping, therefore I am." _____________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 14:31:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA21387 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:31:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA21380 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:31:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0truOq-0009Z7C; Wed, 28 Feb 96 14:31 PST Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:31:07 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: invalid opcode cc: "Amancio Hasty Jr." , David Langford , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, invalid opcode wrote: > On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > > heard of, and most of us sound (to a lesser extend) like FreeBSD fanatics > > ---Jake > > I don't agree with this, we are actually trying to support Linux, if we > were fanatics, we would say: ext2fs, linux emulation, screw that shit. > Also, does Linux have any FreeBSD emulators? I'm saying that we're "fanatics" by actively encouraging people to run FreeBSD rather than Linux, otherwise we would just say, "Go ahead and run Linux. Our operating system isn't any better." But we don't say that, do we? :-) By supporting Linux FS and emulation, it is only a short-term solution to encourage former Linux providers to migrate over to FreeBSD with a minimum of pain. Also, the Linux emulation originally started so we could play Linux DOOM (hmmm!) and is still useful for running binary-only apps that have no FreeBSD port. We are supporting Linux, in other words, for migration purposes, and because they have more binaries. That explains why we can run BSDI but not NetBSD binaries (popularity), and why NetBSD CAN run FreeBSD binaries! ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 14:36:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA22089 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:36:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA22060 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:36:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA01961; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:36:54 -0800 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:36:54 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Anybody running INN on -current? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Reliably? John mentioned one time that there were some VM fixes in -current that fixed problems with using MMAP in INN in -stable, but before I go production here, I'd like to see if somebody else is. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 14:56:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA23906 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:56:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from rk.ios.com (rk.ios.com [198.4.75.55]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA23896 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:56:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rashid@localhost) by rk.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA09444 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:56:21 -0500 From: Rashid Karimov Message-Id: <199602282256.RAA09444@rk.ios.com> Subject: CCD - amazing results :) To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:56:20 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi there ppl, I've played with CCD today in the following( not the best one possible) config): ASUS 133Mhz P5 , 1 AHA2940 + 1 AHA2940W , 2 15150W 4gb HD, 2 35350N 2Gb HDs. I tried to split HDs evenly between those 2 adaptors , so what I had were 2 wide HDs on the first adaptor, amnd 2 on the second. Read peaks at 12+Mb sec with 16 in /etc/ccd.conf Write peaks at ~13Mb/sec with 512 in /etc/ccd.conf Trying to optimize both , I ended up with 128 and 9.5-10Mb read/write. Looks stable , easy to configure and well, fast :) During the test I've played with 120Mb - 400Mb big files, run 4 simultaneous "tar --unlink -xvf 32.meg.big.tar.all.different" trying to trash it. Works just fine I'm trying to get "bonnie" installed , BTW what is the official site for it ? , so I'll report bonnie's results here later PS - Tried it on P6-150Mhz from ASUS - no luck there. Braindead PCI implementation is SLOW !!! Don;t but it yet ! Or , at least call Intel and ask for Alder :)) - may be then we'll be able to get the thing :)) Rashid From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 14:59:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA24049 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:59:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA24043 Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:59:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.4/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id OAA21545; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:59:19 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 14:59:18 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: sos@freebsd.org cc: Stephen Hocking , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-Reply-To: <199602281715.SAA00597@DeepCore.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Feb 1996 sos@freebsd.org wrote: > Where is the Linux version, I can't find it.... > S=F8ren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Cor= e Team ftp://quake.best.com/pub/idsoftware/quake/linux_qtest1.tgz =3D=3D Chris Layne =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D coredump@nervosa.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump =3D=3D From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 15:00:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA24268 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 15:00:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA24263 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 15:00:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA19843; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:29:08 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602282259.JAA19843@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:29:08 +1030 (CST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, phk@critter.tfs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Feb 27, 96 08:23:11 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Jake Hamby stands accused of saying: > > BTW, Multibus and QBus had autoconfig way before 1986, FWIW. > > AutoConfig was a trademark of Commodore. The Zorro I and II buses were > basically a local bus (straight off the 68000 chip), but Zorro III was an > asynchronous bus that could adaptively negotiate clock speed and feature > set with individual cards (backwards compatible with Zorro II, but Zorro I > was very shortlived). But come to think of it, since all of the cards > were memory-mapped, and the 680x0 has shared IRQ and DMA channels, there > was only the memory range to allocate to AutoConfig it. Interestingly, > the OS was smart enough to boot off of hard drive controller boards by > loading in the driver from a ROM, and could also AutoConfig RAM expansion > boards and add the RAM to the free memory pool... ... still all old hat by the time they got around to it. As the previous poster mentioned, Multibus (yecch, you want to bitch about connectors? 8), Qbus and a plethora of others were doing it years before. See Also VME, and a dozen or two I've missed. EISA bombed because of the angst around the connector designs (remember the 'video specific' side-connectors? *shudder*), and vendors who decided that it would only go into their high-end machines. MCA bombed because someone at IBM decided they wanted to make money out of a bus spec. PCI? Well, I guess we'll have to wait on that one. > ---Jake -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 15:24:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA25935 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 15:24:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA25780 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 15:23:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA20039; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:49:58 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602282319.JAA20039@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: HELP ME To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:49:58 +1030 (CST) Cc: i93mtb@infocib.ase.ro, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <13045.825448536@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 27, 96 11:15:36 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying: > > Oh, I just *live* for questions like this. It takes more than Dilbert to make you smile? Poor, warped creature. > An obscure querant from Romania asks the wrong OS group the wrong > question using the wrong gender (something so capriciously destructive > as a Windows virus could only be female ;-). > > Jordan > > > infocib.ase.ro!i93mtb ("Musat T.Bogdan") Writes: > > > > What is the last virus for windows 95? A recursive virus? (misquotes) 'and the fleas have little fleas on their backs to bite them, and so on and on ad infinitum' > > My name is MUSAT BOGDAN .I am student at cibernetics in Bucharest. cibernetics? cidernetics? Their fruit industry must be in bad shape. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 15:49:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA27550 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 15:49:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA27543 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 15:49:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id PAA07077; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 15:47:59 -0800 Message-Id: <199602282347.PAA07077@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Latest 2.1R panic. Hmm. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:55:47 PST." <199602282155.NAA17206@freefall.freebsd.org> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 15:47:59 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Joe Greco wrote: >> #define MSG_BSIZE (4096 - 3 * sizeof(unsigned int)) >> >> in sys/msgbuf.h. There's my 4083. >> >> Ok. Well. Can I safely bump this up, recompile dmesg and friends, and be >> happy? (yes syslog too, I know) > > i bumped mine to 8k. two weeks ago while hammering on the > anaconda scsi tape drive. no problem (with teh 8k) (report > on anaconda scsi in findal review) Is there a general consensus that wasting one extra page for the message buffer by default is desired? I know I've overrun it myself on many systems, and it's very annoying when it happens. If so, I'll make the change to an 8K buffer a standard part of FreeBSD. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 16:02:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA28401 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:02:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA28396 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:02:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA02465; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:00:26 -0800 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:00:26 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: Joe Greco cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Latest 2.1R panic. Hmm. In-Reply-To: <199602281926.NAA03151@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I would second this bigtime. It seems like anything related to kernel configuration (as opposed to hardware specific issues), oughta be settable by the kernel config file. And maybe documented in LINT. On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > Hi, > > This is not so much a panic report as it is a growing pains report :-) > > My news server freaked an hour ago, when I got back from lunch it was > happily running. I did "dmesg" to see the crash and got... > > hummin# dmesg > ode segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b > = DPL 0, pres 1, de\M^?\^Bran 1 > processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 > current process = 8891 (innd) > interrupt mask = net tty bio > panic: page fault > > syncing disks... 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 29 giving up > Automatic reboot in 15 seconds - press a key on the console to abort > Rebooting... > followed by a reasonably normal boot. > > Well that "DPL" line looks weird BUT - _MY_ complaint is that there was not > enough room to save the entire message. > > A typical "dmesg" output from my news server, freshly booted, is 3693 bytes > from banner to changing root device. Why? Because I have > lllllllllllllllllllllllllooooots of stuff connected to my news box. > > 390 bytes of old message was saved. That's 4083, very close to 4K. So I > went looking and found > > #define MSG_BSIZE (4096 - 3 * sizeof(unsigned int)) > > in sys/msgbuf.h. There's my 4083. > > Ok. Well. Can I safely bump this up, recompile dmesg and friends, and be > happy? (yes syslog too, I know) > > This also brings a larger issue to light. I've spent a lot of time tracking > down these Magick Constants(tm) in BSD code. Is there a way we can at least > document (or better yet make into kernel compile time options) all of these > magic little critters that big machines might want to tweak? Things like > MSG_BSIZE and DK_NDRIVE and... and... oh. And all the damn pieces of code > that assume that one will never have more than {10,32,etc} network > interfaces. That doesn't even seem to HAVE a well known constant (I really > blew my stack the other day when I found #define MAXIF 10 in > /usr/src/usr.bin/netstat/if.c). > > I would be VERY HAPPY to track down and report things like this that I find > if somebody assures me that efforts will be made to correct them - > preferably with some dynamic methods. I can of course submit patches that > raise the constants, which is generally what I do to fix the problems.. > > Still it is sorta cool to run into limits ;-) > > ... Joe > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net > Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 16:12:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA28940 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:12:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA28935 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:12:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA09335; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:03:41 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602290003.RAA09335@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:03:41 -0700 (MST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, terry@lambert.org, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, root@dihelix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Feb 28, 96 02:25:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > The situation is not aided by the fact that the BSD camp emulates > > > the Linux ABI sufficiently well that companies are of the opinion > > > that they can save themselves a porting effort. > > > > That depends on whether or not you view the UNIX market as one capable > > of sustaining native versions of all the major players anymore. No > > good winning a battle if it costs you the war. > > Well, certainly being able to run the Linux version is better than no > version at all, right? Also, if our Linux ABI is reasonably efficient > (as it seems to be), then would there be any significant further gain to > make a "native" port? For many applications, it seems unlikely. After > all, we're just patching Linux system calls through to our kernel, it's > not as if we actually have to go user their crummy KERNEL (although we do > have to use their shared libraries...). One could argue that it's better for Browsers that run on FreeBSD to report "FreeBSD" rather than "Linux" to the web sites it runs against. One could also argue that it's better to have "FreeBSD" than "Linux" on the outside of the box on store shelves. Finally, how do you answer "if it's a Linux program I want to run, why shouldn't I just install Linux instead of FreeBSD?"? > Anyway, I agree with Jordan on this, better to work on the ELF support in > FreeBSD then tell vendors, "Oh by the way, the Linux version of your > program works GREAT on FreeBSD, why don't you advertise it as > FreeBSD-compatible too (and maybe think about doing a native port for your > next version)?" :-) Clearly they won't even consider a native port in that case. A native port won't increase their "potential customer" count one iota if there is already a version that runs on FreeBSD. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 16:19:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA29140 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:19:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA29134 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:18:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA09363; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:09:39 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602290009.RAA09363@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... To: coredump@nervosa.com (invalid opcode) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:09:39 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, phk@critter.tfs.com, narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "invalid opcode" at Feb 28, 96 02:00:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > EISA would have had to have changed significantly, and a lot of cards > > Terry Lambert > > Well don't you think it's a pretty damn significant change from ISA, EISA > -> PCI ? I thought it was a pretty significant change from Apple II card form factor to XT form factor. I thought it was a pretty significant change from XT 8-bit to AT 16 bit. If that isn't enough, I thought it was pretty significant when people started distributing on 1.2M floppies when the drives weren't all over, then from 1.2M 5 1/4 to 1.44M 3 1/2, and now to CDROM. What is the average computer life expectancy in a small business (50% of the number of computers in business are in small businesses)? It has been estimated at 2-4 years. The question is whether a short term loss is worth a long term gain. Don't forget that the new Apple PPC machines are "pure PCI" boxes. Hell, I thought coding for more than 8K of memory was a significant change! 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 16:19:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA29172 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:19:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA29167 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:19:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA09380; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:10:07 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602290010.RAA09380@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... To: coredump@nervosa.com (invalid opcode) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:10:07 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, phk@critter.tfs.com, narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "invalid opcode" at Feb 28, 96 01:59:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > No, ISA cards must die. > > Terry Lambert > > No, PCI cards must die. Lets bet on which goes away first. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 16:19:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA29206 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:19:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from multivac.orthanc.com (root@multivac.orthanc.com [206.12.238.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA29139 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:19:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (lyndon@localhost) by multivac.orthanc.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA03532; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:18:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602290018.QAA03532@multivac.orthanc.com> X-Authentication-Warning: multivac.orthanc.com: Host lyndon@localhost didn't use HELO protocol From: Lyndon Nerenberg VE7TCP To: Ravis Tasakorn cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Virus checking In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 29 Feb 1996 00:43:42 GMT." Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:18:26 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Ravis" == Ravis Tasakorn writes: Ravis> Dear Users I'd like to know if any of you have URL of cool Ravis> sites where I can download virus killer shareware programs. The best virus killer I have found (to date) is located at: ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/2.1.0-RELEASE/floppies/boot.flp This is a self-installing program that will eradicate all known viruses from Intel based IBM-PC compatible systems. The URL points to a floppy disk image. You need to copy this to a floppy disk, then boot from that floppy. If your operating system does not provide tools for doing direct image copies (i.e. something like 'dd') you can obtain a suitable MS-DOS utility from: ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/2.1.0-RELEASE/tools/rawrite.exe Once you have created the bootable floppy image (using boot.flp), place the disk in your A: drive and reboot. The floppy disk contains a self-extracting program image that will install itself onto your hard disk. The software is very user friendly, and will prompt you for all the information it requires. As with any maintenance utility that performs low-level manipulation of your hard disk (as any virus eradication tool must), make *sure* you back up your existing files before running this software. If you need further information about removing viruses from your system, send email to support@msn.com. --lyndon From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 16:38:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA00740 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:38:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA00723 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:38:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id BAA02617 ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 01:37:56 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id BAA13464 ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 01:37:55 +0100 Received: (uucp@localhost) by fasterix.frmug.fr.net (8.6.11/fasterix-941011) with UUCP id WAA01837; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 22:42:01 +0100 Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by tetard.frmug.fr.net (8.7.3/8.7.3/tetard-uucp-2.7) id WAA00398; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 22:37:43 +0100 (MET) From: Philippe Regnauld Message-Id: <199602282137.WAA00398@tetard.frmug.fr.net> Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) To: jfieber@indiana.edu (John Fieber) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 22:37:42 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (hackers) In-Reply-To: from "John Fieber" at Feb 27, 96 09:14:17 am X-rene: Tu dois pas les avoir perdues, normalement. X-wing-fighter: et puis X-men, X-open, X-ta-mere... X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk John Fieber écrit / writes: > I think a large factor in the dismal state of GUIs on unix is the simple > fact that many unix users will put up with the most horrendous GUI without > complaint. I might go so far as to say they wouldn't know a good GUI if > it came up and bit them. Since a good UI is considerably harder to > develop than a bad one, why invest in a good one if the users won't even > notice? This is some kind of protection against Windrool-type users :-) Seriously, a nice-looking (let alone *unified*) GUI would make users want to use Unix a bit more (or maybe feel less repelled by it). The positive side-effect is that it would be easier to convince developers to port apps to FreeBSD (and other Unices). -- Phil -- - [ regnauld@tetard.frmug.fr.net / +48.8N+2.3E / +33 1 4507 9391 / Sol 3 ] - - [ regnauld@freenix.fr / FreeBSD 2.x / ] - "Le schtroumpf est à l'homme ce que le bleu est au billard" - F.Berjon From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 16:38:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA00817 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:38:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA00779 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:38:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id BAA02613 ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 01:37:55 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id BAA13461 ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 01:37:54 +0100 Received: (uucp@localhost) by fasterix.frmug.fr.net (8.6.11/fasterix-941011) with UUCP id WAA01835; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 22:41:59 +0100 Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by tetard.frmug.fr.net (8.7.3/8.7.3/tetard-uucp-2.7) id WAA00386; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 22:34:38 +0100 (MET) From: Philippe Regnauld Message-Id: <199602282134.WAA00386@tetard.frmug.fr.net> Subject: Re: xforms maintenance tools (was Re: Tcl/Tk sysinstall) To: jerry@border.com (Jerry Kendall) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 22:34:37 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (hackers) In-Reply-To: <96Feb27.093616est.20485-2@janus.border.com> from "Jerry Kendall" at Feb 27, 96 09:28:36 am X-rene: Tu dois pas les avoir perdues, normalement. X-wing-fighter: et puis X-men, X-open, X-ta-mere... X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jerry Kendall écrit / writes: > I have been working on a diskmaint utility to 'fdisk/disklabel' a newly [...] > Things I have in mind are :PPP/SLIP, DNS/BIND, user manager(setup, passwords > and the like), uucp manager, printer manager, backup/restore tools, etc... > Any other tools that can be sugested, commented on, would be gratefull. This is typically the kind of the things I'd like to get under way. I have some machines running out there which do not need my supervision all the time -- but I hate to spend 1/2 hr on the phone every so often, explaining to the local 'administrator' how to use 'vi', and set up ppp accounts, etc... It would be great to have "mainstream" admin. tools and logging (PPP logs, syslog, UUCP, etc...) available under X (or at least menu-driven). I was about to take a look at Tk, but if you've got better suggestions, I'm willing to try and work in this direction. -- Phil -- - [ regnauld@tetard.frmug.fr.net / +48.8N+2.3E / +33 1 4507 9391 / Sol 3 ] - - [ regnauld@freenix.fr / FreeBSD 2.x / ] - "Le schtroumpf est à l'homme ce que le bleu est au billard" - F.Berjon From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 16:46:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA01398 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:46:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from tombstone.sunrem.com (tombstone.sunrem.com [199.104.90.54]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA01393 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:46:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from brandon@localhost) by tombstone.sunrem.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA06294; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:46:43 -0700 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:46:43 -0700 (MST) From: Brandon Gillespie To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: pkg_create Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk There is a software package I distribute which I would like to make available as a freeBSD package. Although the man page on pkg_create does explain what the arguments are, it does not explain really what to do with it. For instance, where do you get a packing list from? I could probably hack up my own package by hand, just by diddling with an existing package, faster than I could figure out what to do with pkg_create. In a last ditch effort I'm posting here, in hopes somebody has at least a 1,2,3 setup for doing it (like the kernel compile in the FAQ (?), works great :) -Brandon From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 16:49:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA01552 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:49:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA01547 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:49:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA10473; Wed, 28 Feb 96 18:46:55 -0600 Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA13427; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:46:54 -0700 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:46:54 -0700 Message-Id: <9602290046.AA13427@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> From: Sean Kelly To: jkh@time.cdrom.com Cc: terry@lambert.org, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, jehamby@lightside.com, root@dihelix.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3781.825544043@time.cdrom.com> (jkh@time.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Jordan" == "Jordan K Hubbard" writes: >> The situation is not aided by the fact that the BSD camp >> emulates the Linux ABI sufficiently well that companies are of >> the opinion that they can save themselves a porting effort. Jordan> That depends on whether or not you view the UNIX market as Jordan> one capable of sustaining native versions of all the major Jordan> players anymore. No good winning a battle if it costs you Jordan> the war. Quite right. That's always been the Great False Promise of Unix. About the only thing you have in common amongst all the versions is that `ls' is the file/directory listing commmand, and it may display in multiple columns or in a single column depending as much on vendor as environment and invocation. Porting efforts are sincere efforts, indeed! I like the sound of ``FreeBSD: a better Linux than Linux.'' I'd place the focus on making any i386 executable just run directly. An installed, out-of-the-box system ought to run installed, out-of-the-box ibcs2, SCO, Linux, DOS, Windows, what-have-you executables. No setup. No additional library. No muss. No fuss. Of course, I live most of the time in my dreams, too. -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory kelly@fsl.noaa.gov Boulder Colorado USA http://www-sdd.fsl.noaa.gov/~kelly/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 16:54:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA01955 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:54:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA01946 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:54:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0trwdM-0009Z2C; Wed, 28 Feb 96 16:54 PST Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:54:15 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: Terry Lambert cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, terry@lambert.org, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, root@dihelix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-Reply-To: <199602290003.RAA09335@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > One could argue that it's better for Browsers that run on FreeBSD > to report "FreeBSD" rather than "Linux" to the web sites it runs against. Granted. I know mine is probably reporting "BSDI" (Netscape 2.0)... > One could also argue that it's better to have "FreeBSD" than "Linux" > on the outside of the box on store shelves. Now how many Linux programs have you seen on store shelves? :-) Linux books maybe, Linux CD-ROMs possibly, but no third-party apps at Egghead, the last time I checked... :-) > Finally, how do you answer "if it's a Linux program I want to run, why > shouldn't I just install Linux instead of FreeBSD?"? Because of the superior TCP/IP stack? Because of easier installation? Because it is more stable? Because of the ports collection? What about the improved security and administration features? All of these advantages carry over, whether you are running a mixture of FreeBSD "ports" and Linux apps, or even mostly Linux programs! Just like OS/2 claimed to be "a better DOS than DOS", why can't we make the (justified once we get ELF) claim of "a better Linux than Linux?" > Clearly they won't even consider a native port in that case. A native > port won't increase their "potential customer" count one iota if there > is already a version that runs on FreeBSD. Okay, granted. But as I said, if it already runs fine on FreeBSD through binary emulation, then what do you gain by demanding a FreeBSD-native port? Sure, it'd be nice, but I know I'd rather be able to run a Linux version than have no version at all! ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 17:00:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA02431 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:00:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA02426 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:00:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA09543; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:52:37 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602290052.RAA09543@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) To: coredump@nervosa.com (invalid opcode) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:52:37 -0700 (MST) Cc: narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "invalid opcode" at Feb 28, 96 02:16:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Narvi wrote: > > Talking about real good GUIs... How do you define one? Windows certainly > > Sander > > NeXTStep. > Why is it that all good ideas are never liked by the stupid human public. Because of the lame proprietary technology you have to license to implement the idea (Display PostScript) and the lame idea of making your computer run like a snail whenever you print by moving the processing (PostScript) from the printer to the computer because it's too expensive to implement any other way? The GUI was cool, the "Objective C" was "Objectionable" (we'll just define this *new* language so we don't have to learn C++ and because we thing we can jack GCC into compiling it without giving the sources out so it can be ported to other platforms). The browser was cool, the "dock" was OK (I guess; it was pretty limited in the number of apps it could contain), and the login screen was cool. The initial lack of color really sucked. The use of mixed text and binary databases for things sucked. The inability to use a remote display sucked. The "Mach domain" sockets sucked. The need to load apps from a server and run them locally instead of running on an application server sucked. The lack of a floppy drive sucked. The speed of the optical sucked. The black cube was cool. The Motorolla DSP was cool. More than one button on the mouse was cool (three would have been better). "Write Now" was cool. The paint program was cool. The keyboard connector was cheap. The missing key in the "T" bar keys was cheap. The power button was annoying (in combination, it made it impossible to emulate a VT220 without using composition keys). I can't see why developers didn't flock to it. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 17:01:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA02507 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:01:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA02499 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:01:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA09553; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:53:19 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602290053.RAA09553@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? To: coredump@nervosa.com (invalid opcode) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:53:19 -0700 (MST) Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, root@dihelix.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "invalid opcode" at Feb 28, 96 02:25:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > > heard of, and most of us sound (to a lesser extend) like FreeBSD fanatics > > ---Jake > > I don't agree with this, we are actually trying to support Linux, if we > were fanatics, we would say: ext2fs, linux emulation, screw that shit. > Also, does Linux have any FreeBSD emulators? Yes. It works about as well as our VM86 and "DOSEMU". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 17:02:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA02545 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:02:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA02493 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:01:55 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602290101.RAA02493@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA071055778; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 12:02:58 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: IP filtering strawman, comments please. To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 12:02:58 +1100 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <12238.825366315@critter.tfs.com> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I was passed this e-mail and asked to comment, which I don't mind doing, so long as someone will listen. > This is a strawman intended to foster discussion about the future support > for IP packet filtering in the FreeBSD kernel. [...] > The present support (as of 960226) provides the following support: > > There is one chain of rules, and it is applied at (A), (B), (Ci) > and (Co). The following information is available, in addition > to the packet itself: At (A) and (Ci), receiving interface. > At (B) and (Co), destination interface. > > Now, this is clearly not optimal from particular many points, therefore > I suggest the following model instead: > > There will be multiple chains of rules as follows: > > For each interface, two chains of rules. One filters > incoming packets, the other outgoing packets. In Fig 1 > these are the pairs (0i/0o), (1i/1o) &c. No information > is available apart from the packet itself. > > There will be a filter-chain at (A) to filter what packets > we let into the local protocol stack. In addition to the > packet, information about the arrival interface is available. > > There will be a filter-chain at (B) to filter what packets > we let out of the local protocol stack. In addition to the > packet, information about the destination interface is > available. > > There will be two filter-chains at (Ci) and (Co) to filter > what packets we route through this machine. At (Ci) the > arrival interface is known and at (Co) the destination > interface is known in addition to the packet itself. [...] > At each filtering point, the rules are applied in numeric order, > until one of them matches the packet, the action from that rule > is then taken. > > Just as important as where a rule can be applied, is what the rule can > express, I suggest this functionality, this is more or less what we have > now as well: [...] > Packet is (not) a broadcast. > Packet is (not) a multicast. This can (only) reliably come from looking at the MAC address and will need to be done in the driver, somewhere. ie if_ether.c and if_ppp.c (not if_ed.c, etc). If this is a requirement, then the current ipfw structure needs to be totally scrapped and something using BPF implemented. Having looked into this already, I'd suggest that a filter list would then be a set of BPF programs, with filter return statuses used bsed on what BPF thinks. There are some problems with this, however... > "printf" register the match with printf. > "syslog" register the match with syslog. > "verbose" be very detailed. > "hexdump" be very very detailed. > The changes to the code to support this scheme are rather simple: > Add reference counts to each rule. > Add two rule-chain headers to the if structure. > Add the logic to specify what chains a rule applies to. > Make sure ip_output knows if the packet was locally generated > or routed. > > Comments ? Have you considered what this does for management of packet filtering ? The complexity is increased too much, I fear. If I want to delete a rule, how many times do I have to delete it if it is referenced by several interfaces/control points ? At USENIX last year, Andrew Molitar presented a paper describing how his filter mechanism supported filtering at 5 different places during the packets possible lifetime. The main problem I see with this is: how easily can I view a complete list of rules that can possibly effect the packet and what do I have to do to verify that my access list rules are doing what I want ? Filtering packets being "routed onwards" is a dubious distinction from those being sent as output, IMHO. The only reason I'd be thinking about making changes like this would be for performance reasons. In testing IP Filter, I've noticed very little degradation on a P-100 with 1 or 100 rules for ftp across my own ethernet. The furthest I would consider breaking this up is per-interface, input and output. My reason for not doing this is that allows general rules to be used without complicating the model required to support it (just uses a single list for each of input and output). The correctness of the implementation also becomes harder to prove, requiring bits of the kernel to be used in testing. Currently, you could take the engine from ipfw and build a userland progam around it (I hope!) which could trivially test any/all packets. The problem of how to "log" packets is a side effect of how it is currently being done: either via log() or printf()/kprintf(). This is better solved by fixing the way interaction is done with the in-kernel filtering. On a separate note, prior to 2.1.0 release, a few people from freebsd-security asked about incorporating IP Filter. The reason given then for not including it (accounting) has since been fixed; URL: http://coombs.anu.edu.au/~avalon/ip-filter.html I guess what you end up doing depends upon what your goals and aims are. What problems are you trying to address (and solve) with your strawman ? darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 17:03:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA02659 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:03:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA02653 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:03:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA09851; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:06:18 -0700 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:06:18 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199602290106.SAA09851@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Linux emulation vs. native (was Re: Quake's out ...) In-Reply-To: <199602290003.RAA09335@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199602290003.RAA09335@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > One could argue that it's better for Browsers that run on FreeBSD > to report "FreeBSD" rather than "Linux" to the web sites it runs against. Umm, they do. Netscape (by far the most popular) uses uname to determine the system type. I found this out from a site that proceeded to inform me that it didn't find a match for 'insert uname output' on it's site. I thought it was pretty clever to auto search for software matching the OS you are running. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 17:06:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA03046 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:06:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA03036 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:06:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA09588; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:57:57 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602290057.RAA09588@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:57:57 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, jehamby@lightside.com, root@dihelix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3739.825543840@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 28, 96 01:44:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > We need AOL client software. > > I'm sorry, Terry, but we have to kill you now. We don't want to, but > it's a duty. Has it occurred to you that AOL client software would require having protocol documentation suficient to allow you to write a server? Ie: something that can talk to every AOL disk ever shipped, except it's not AOL? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 17:12:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA03523 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:12:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA03459 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:11:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA09633; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:03:04 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602290103.SAA09633@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:03:04 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, root@dihelix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Feb 28, 96 04:54:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Just like OS/2 > claimed to be "a better DOS than DOS", why can't we make the (justified > once we get ELF) claim of "a better Linux than Linux?" Uh, OS/2 hasn't been very successful compared to DOS (or Win95). > Okay, granted. But as I said, if it already runs fine on FreeBSD through > binary emulation, then what do you gain by demanding a FreeBSD-native > port? Sure, it'd be nice, but I know I'd rather be able to run a Linux > version than have no version at all! Because it will have been regression tested on Linux but not on BSD. Because a commercial software vendor does not typically offer support for an OS running their product in an emulation environment. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 17:36:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA05460 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:36:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA05452 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:36:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id BAA02712 ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 01:32:34 GMT To: davidg@Root.COM cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Latest 2.1R panic. Hmm. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 15:47:59 PST." <199602282347.PAA07077@Root.COM> Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 01:32:34 +0000 Message-ID: <2710.825557554@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk David Greenman wrote in message ID <199602282347.PAA07077@Root.COM>: > Is there a general consensus that wasting one extra page for the message > buffer by default is desired? I know I've overrun it myself on many systems, > and it's very annoying when it happens. > If so, I'll make the change to an 8K buffer a standard part of FreeBSD. Hmm. Perhaps make it a kernel compile option, and if user-land programs need to know the size of the buffer, add a sysctl (or something) to read the value out of the kernel? If nothing else, I can see systems like wcarchive going WAY over the 8k buffer for boot messages! Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 17:46:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA06059 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:46:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from multivac.orthanc.com (root@multivac.orthanc.com [206.12.238.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA06048 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:46:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (lyndon@localhost) by multivac.orthanc.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA05053 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:46:09 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602290146.RAA05053@multivac.orthanc.com> X-Authentication-Warning: multivac.orthanc.com: Host lyndon@localhost didn't use HELO protocol From: Lyndon Nerenberg VE7TCP To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: tcpdump changes X-Attribution: VE7TCP Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:46:08 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'm thinking of making a change to tcpdump and would like to solicit comments ... The '-x' option prints a hex dump of packet contents (modulo capture length). I would like to modify it to also include an ASCII representation of the same data. (Makes it easier to trace things like SMTP protocol sessions.) The ASCII representation would be printed in a second column to the right of the existing hex dump (with the hex output suitably shifted to the left to make space). For display purposes anything failing isprint() would print as a '.'. (Can anyone think of a rational for supporting locale's in this context?) Is there anything out there (expect scripts or the like) that will break if the output format of -x changes? I would like to avoid adding another option for ASCII output if at all possible. --lyndon From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 17:59:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA07401 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:59:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA07396 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:59:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from exalt.x.org by expo.x.org id AA00248; Wed, 28 Feb 96 20:58:39 -0500 Received: from localhost by exalt.x.org id BAA17317; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 01:58:39 GMT Message-Id: <199602290158.BAA17317@exalt.x.org> To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:46:54 EDT. <9602290046.AA13427@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> Organization: X Consortium Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 20:58:38 EDT From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > I like the sound of ``FreeBSD: a better Linux than Linux.'' > Careful, OS/2 was a better DOS than DOS, a better Windows than Windows, and PM to boot. Well, look where that's gotten it. Microsoft countered the "better Windows" bit by releasing a better windows of its own. And Linux is getting better all the time, although they're about to shoot themselves in the foot again with another round of ELF stupidity. -- Kaleb KEITHLEY From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 18:00:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA07650 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:00:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA07644 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:00:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA04634; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:59:21 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby), hasty@rah.star-gate.com, root@dihelix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:03:41 MST." <199602290003.RAA09335@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:59:21 -0800 Message-ID: <4632.825559161@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > One could also argue that it's better to have "FreeBSD" than "Linux" > on the outside of the box on store shelves. Again, you make the tacit assumption that ISVs are willing and able to support multiple UN*X platforms for their products. Such is simply no longer true, and it's more a question of saving what little we have left at this point. Hell, it was exactly this divisive kind of "well we don't like it if it doesn't smell like us" thinking that led to the current crisis in the UNIX applications market. UNIX didn't fail to capture the desktop by pure caprice, a number of its staunchest supporters were among the busiest in helping to pull defeat from the jaws of victory. Everybody had their own favorite tree and did their best to ignore the very existance of a forest. Feh! Sorry, while I'd love to see FreeBSD be such a hit that little "FreeBSD Ready!" stickers started appearing on machines from the likes of Dell and Compaq, I'm too much of a realist to expect that I actually will. Likewise, I don't see UNIX coming back from the dead and catapulting shrink-wrapped FreeBSD software into places like Egghead. I just don't. Heck, I don't even see it doing that with Linux yet (if ever), and that market is easily 3-4 times our size. The old maxium of "together we stand, divided we fall" never seems to have caught on in the UNIX world, and that's a damn shame. I would personally be *happy* to see in inter-OS common ABI established, with Linux as both the starting and ending point if need be (they're the bigger gorilla, and that grants certain privileges). How long can it possibly take the UNIX market to otherwise wake up and smell the friggin' coffee? We (the UNIX commuity at large) screwed up by playing 3 stooges when we should have been designing interoperability standards, and we sent most of our ISV friends packing by presenting them with a support picture that had all the professional grace and elegance of an english football riot. Picture, if you will, a UNIX consultant talking to the product manager for Foobolix at Foonetics, Inc: "You say you want to support this product on ``UNIX''? Ah... OK, go get ahold of some Solaris, AIX, HP/UX, SCO and OSF/1 machines (plus maybe a SunOS partition for the hold-outs), hire at least 3 engineers and prepare to spend 3-6 months at it. Oh yeah, you'll also need to keep the machines around more or less indefinitely for ongoing support." [a strangling noise is heard over the phone] "Hello? Are you OK? Yes, I do admit that this is 6 times the effort for a market perhaps 1/100th the size of Windows.. No, it doesn't make any sense, I agree. Excuse me? No, I'm afraid that the free UNIX market isn't in much better shape. There are at least 3 different variants for the Intel architecture alone, and each has its own distinct ABI." [mumble mumble gritch sigh] "Yes, in their father's footsteps as it were. Those that have fathers, yes. You're quite astute, sir. Perhaps we should move on to discuss the NT version of your product?" Any similarity to real-life conversations I've had is purely coincidental. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 18:01:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA07685 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:01:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA07680 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:01:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from exalt.x.org by expo.x.org id AA00304; Wed, 28 Feb 96 21:00:48 -0500 Received: from localhost by exalt.x.org id CAA17330; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 02:00:48 GMT Message-Id: <199602290200.CAA17330@exalt.x.org> To: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Linux emulation vs. native (was Re: Quake's out ...) In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:06:18 EDT. <199602290106.SAA09851@rocky.sri.MT.net> Organization: X Consortium Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 21:00:47 EDT From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > > One could argue that it's better for Browsers that run on FreeBSD > > to report "FreeBSD" rather than "Linux" to the web sites it runs against. > > Umm, they do. Netscape (by far the most popular) uses uname to > determine the system type. As does Mosaic. -- Kaleb KEITHLEY From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 18:11:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA08543 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:11:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA08532 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:11:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA04674; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:11:09 -0800 (PST) To: Brandon Gillespie cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: pkg_create In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:46:43 MST." Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:11:09 -0800 Message-ID: <4672.825559869@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > with it. For instance, where do you get a packing list from? I could > probably hack up my own package by hand, just by diddling with an pkg_create -c "-This is the blah package" \ -d "-Yes, it really is the blah package. Blah blah blah." \ -f - blah_pkg.tgz @cwd /usr/local bin/blah lib/blah.a man/man1/blah.1.gz includes/blah.h ^D That's kind of the quick synopsys of a packing list (entered on STDIN) for your typical /usr/local denizen. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 18:12:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA08729 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:12:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA08724 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:12:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA04685; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:11:46 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, jehamby@lightside.com, root@dihelix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:57:57 MST." <199602290057.RAA09588@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:11:46 -0800 Message-ID: <4683.825559906@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Ie: something that can talk to every AOL disk ever shipped, except it's > not AOL? Awww, we just finished a lawsuit - is it time for another one ALREADY? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 18:17:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA09181 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:17:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA09175 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:17:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0trxvV-0009ZEC; Wed, 28 Feb 96 18:17 PST Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:17:04 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: Terry Lambert cc: terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, root@dihelix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-Reply-To: <199602290103.SAA09633@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > Uh, OS/2 hasn't been very successful compared to DOS (or Win95). Sure, but from what I understand, OS/2 sells a million copies a month, you just don't hear about it from the media much. Personally, I gave OS/2 (both 2.1 and "Warp") multiple chances but gave it up due to: hardware incompatibilities (on a PC that successfully ran EVERY OTHER OS couldn't boot Warp because of a bad KEYBOARD driver!), lack of native software, desire to run Win32 apps, desire not to have to do too much tweaking to get DOS progs to work, desire not to have to deal with two different UI's since Windows apps were essentially running on top of Win3.1 on top of a DOS VDM, etc... > Because it will have been regression tested on Linux but not on BSD. Still don't understand how you can realistically regression test your program for Linux considering the hundreds of different distributions + the likely modifications the user has made. Let's see: "This product tested with Slackware Linux 3.0 (Linux 1.2.13 and 1.3.42 running libc 5.0.9, ld.so 1.6, gcc 2.7.2, ELF svgalib 4.2, etc..)"!! Is it just me, or is that slightly insane? :-) I was tired of having to get, e.g. a new libc or "experimental kernel" to run XYZ program, then find weird anomalies (hey 'make' doesn't work, oops 'ppp-on' doesn't work, guess it must be that new LIBC I installed!!). FreeBSD is at least regression tested with its OWN COMPONENTS, how many Linux users can say that about their distribution (at least after they've upgraded various components)? This is still my major gripe with Linux, and it is because Linus only tracks the kernel, he has no influence over any of the other components that make up a "distribution." Things were much simpler back in the a.out days, that's for sure.. Now, how does all that compare with "This product tested with FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE (using Linux libc 5.0.9, etc..)" :-) > Because a commercial software vendor does not typically offer support > for an OS running their product in an emulation environment. Granted. But I repeat, I would rather have an unsupported product than no product at all. I would rather have a vendor say their product works with FreeBSD, then find that they have 100 purchasers calling them, "This product works great! When can we expect a FreeBSD native version?" then to have no product at all, and no user base to demand a FreeBSD port. Think about it... ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 18:29:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA10442 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:29:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA10435 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:29:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0try7A-0009Z2C; Wed, 28 Feb 96 18:29 PST Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:29:07 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Terry Lambert , hasty@rah.star-gate.com, root@dihelix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-Reply-To: <4632.825559161@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Picture, if you will, a UNIX consultant talking to the product manager > for Foobolix at Foonetics, Inc: > > "You say you want to support this product on ``UNIX''? Ah... OK, > go get ahold of some Solaris, AIX, HP/UX, SCO and OSF/1 machines > (plus maybe a SunOS partition for the hold-outs), hire at least 3 > engineers and prepare to spend 3-6 months at it. Oh yeah, you'll > also need to keep the machines around more or less indefinitely > for ongoing support." > > [a strangling noise is heard over the phone] > > "Hello? Are you OK? Yes, I do admit that this is 6 times the effort > for a market perhaps 1/100th the size of Windows.. No, it doesn't make > any sense, I agree. Excuse me? No, I'm afraid that the free UNIX market > isn't in much better shape. There are at least 3 different variants for the > Intel architecture alone, and each has its own distinct ABI." > > [mumble mumble gritch sigh] > > "Yes, in their father's footsteps as it were. Those that have fathers, > yes. You're quite astute, sir. Perhaps we should move on to discuss the > NT version of your product?" LOL!! Ain't that the truth! As I just finished posting to Terry, I would rather have a Linux version, even unsupported, than no version at all... Let's scale that hypothetical conversation down.. Suppose I have a killer idea for a small app that I want to write in my garage and market as shareware. Well for Windows that is quite possible, hell I could probably whip out a couple in Visual Basic before breakfast! :-) And you can always find a market on the Web, and you can expect that maybe 5% of the people who use your program will pay the shareware fee, and 5% of millions of people is enough to make a decent living. Now let's try this with Unix! First of all, you have to give out the source code, so whatever "Pay the shareware fee" mechanisms you put will just be commented out in short notice, i.e. #define REGISTERED.. But suppose you have some killer source code that you don't want people to look through (and steal). You can distribute it as a binary, but then you need, as you mentioned, a Sun, a SGI, AIX, HP-UX, in other words $100,000 worth of workstations, just to COMPILE the damn thing, so for the small-time vendor that is out of the picture. Otherwise you can try to "obscure" the source code with some sort of variable-mangling Perl script, but that isn't too secure, and if you're including "patented" code, would not be acceptable (case in point, the Cinepak and Indeo codecs in the XAnim movie player, which the author distributes in ".o" form to link with the rest of the source, and generated most of them using GCC cross-compilers on his Sun). Anyway, if the UNIX community collectively swallowed their pride and decided what would give them the most applications, the OSF would buy out TWIN and declare Win32 the standard Unix ABI! One can only hope.. :-) ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 18:50:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA12292 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:50:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA12287 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:50:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA09126; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:50:08 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: coredump@nervosa.com (invalid opcode), narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:52:37 MST." <199602290052.RAA09543@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:50:08 -0800 Message-ID: <9124.825562208@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > The GUI was cool, the "Objective C" was "Objectionable" (we'll just > define this *new* language so we don't have to learn C++ and because You're wrong there, Terry. Objective C was being developed at the same time that Stroustrup was getting evil ideas over at AT&T. I know, I was talking to some people back in 1984 about using Objective C for a project I was doing, and there was a company supporting it commercially (if I'm not mistaken it was ParcPlace, though memory dims after more than a decade). They did it because they knew that C++ was genuinely evil and really just a glorified pre-processor hack, not a truly dynamic, message-passing object system like Objective C. Objective C was by far the better mousetrap of the two, and it lost. Typical. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 18:56:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA12908 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:56:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from gaboon.nai.net ([204.71.31.225]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA12903 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:56:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from asv@localhost) by gaboon.nai.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA08500 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 21:56:07 -0500 From: Stan Voket Message-Id: <199602290256.VAA08500@gaboon.nai.net> Subject: 100-baseT hub recommendation? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 21:56:07 -0500 (EST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I'd like to start puting some 100-baset networking in here and am wondering if someone would suggest some appropriate 100 or 10/100 hubs they have had success with. War stories appreciated too. This is for FreeBSD of course! Thanks you! :-) Stan -- - Stan Voket, asv@gaboon.nai.net - http://gaboon.nai.net - - Voice: 203.746-4489 - FAX 203.746.9761 - TELEX 969.642/CARIN DURY - Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 19:06:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA13935 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 19:06:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA13924 for freebsd-hackers; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 19:06:04 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199602290306.TAA13924@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: xdoom dies. "Error: could not get stats on key=1685024621" To: freebsd-hackers Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 19:06:02 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk switched from 16bpp to 8bpp to try running xdoom for linux today. anyone seen this problem? DOOM System Startup v1.8 V_Init: allocate screens. M_LoadDefaults: Load system defaults. Z_Init: Init zone memory allocation daemon. W_Init: Init WADfiles. adding ./doom1.wad shareware version. M_Init: Init miscellaneous info. R_Init: Init DOOM refresh daemon - [...................] P_Init: Init Playloop state. I_Init: Setting up machine state. sndserver: not found D_CheckNetGame: Checking network game status. startskill 2 deathmatch: 0 startmap: 1 startepisode: 1 player 1 of 1 (1 nodes) S_Init: Setting up sound. HU_Init: Setting up heads up display. ST_Init: Init status bar. Using MITSHM extension Error: could not get stats on key=1685024621 Aspen:[109] uname -a FreeBSD Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM 2.1-STABLE FreeBSD 2.1-STABLE #3: Sun Feb 25 06:56:30 EST 1996 jmb@Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM:/usr/src/sys/compile/ASPEN i386 -- Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD--4.4BSD Unix for PC clones, source included. http://www.freebsd.org/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 19:51:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA18471 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 19:51:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA18466 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 19:50:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA04549; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 19:50:13 -0800 Message-Id: <199602290350.TAA04549@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: invalid opcode cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:36:01 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 19:50:12 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >>> invalid opcode said: > On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > > The icing on the cake, if I am not mistaken the main ftp site for iD > > stuff is ftp.cdrom.com. > > Amancio > > ftp.idsoftware.com > Well sort of. ftp.idsoftware.com P5-66, 64mb RAM, Running RedHat Commercial Linux 2.0 And who knows what small number of connections can they support so I bet most of the times the users will probably go to ftp.cdrom.com as I did today 8) Amancio > == Chris Layne ============================================================= = > == coredump@nervosa.com ================= http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump = = > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 19:54:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA18824 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 19:54:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA18812 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 19:54:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA04571; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 19:53:29 -0800 Message-Id: <199602290353.TAA04571@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Jake Hamby cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:29:07 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 19:53:29 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >>> Jake Hamby said: > On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Anyway, if the UNIX community collectively swallowed their pride and > decided what would give them the most applications, the OSF would buy out > TWIN and declare Win32 the standard Unix ABI! One can only hope.. :-) Probably our best hope is the Willows stuff . If we can run a decent 32bit OS and then just turn around and run Windows apps that would be cool . Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 20:05:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA20174 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 20:05:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from wa3ymh.transsys.com (#6@[144.202.42.42]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA20158 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 20:05:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from wa3ymh.transsys.com (#6@localhost.TransSys.COM [127.0.0.1]) by wa3ymh.transsys.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA16136; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 23:04:51 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199602290404.XAA16136@wa3ymh.transsys.com> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Jake Hamby , Narvi , Poul-Henning Kamp , hackers@freebsd.org From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:30:59 PST." <13132.825449459@time.cdrom.com> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 23:04:48 -0500 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'll buck the trend here and praise the existance of PCI bus slots, which are a marked improvement in usability of EISA bus slots. I've got a DEC EISA 486 box at work, and it's always a pain in the butt to make work because whenever you want to plug a new card in, you have to boot the "magic EISA configuration disk". That is, once you remember where last you put it. Then you fiddle around with it, and hope you don't move things around and tempt fate. I compare this to the system I've put together at home. It's got a Tyan Titan III motherboard in it, with 4 PCI slots. I've got a #9 Motion 771 in one slot, a NCR 825 SCSI in another, and DEC PCI ethernet in the third. No muss, no fuss, all that worked fine on the first try without having to tell the BIOS any hints along the way. It's not like I've got real high-bandwidth Ethernet requirements here at home with just 3 other machines and a 56K internet connection; on the other hand, I didn't have even think about running out of IRQs, DMA channels, etc. It all Just Worked. Heck, PCI should have been the way to do Plug-and-Play, and not on the ISA bus. By the way, the only ISA bus card in the box is a GUS P-n-P sound board, and it's got its own growing pains to make it work on Windoz 95 and FreeBSD. EISA - good riddens! I dread everytime I open the machine up at work and having to invoke the spirits on the EISA config disk. I just know that it's going to get me bad one day. This nonsense is one of the stupid things they inherited for IBM MCA systems. Anyone else remember the PS/2 "reference disks" that defined the machine config? Feh. I'm really happy to have a mostly CPU independent bus in the box, so when I replace the base system with a 1GHz Alpha in a few years, I'll probably still be able to use the video board. louie From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 20:12:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA20728 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 20:12:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA20718 Wed, 28 Feb 1996 20:12:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id UAA08136; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 20:12:56 -0800 Message-Id: <199602290412.UAA08136@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Gary Palmer" cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Latest 2.1R panic. Hmm. In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 29 Feb 1996 01:32:34 GMT." <2710.825557554@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 20:12:56 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >David Greenman wrote in message ID ><199602282347.PAA07077@Root.COM>: >> Is there a general consensus that wasting one extra page for the message >> buffer by default is desired? I know I've overrun it myself on many systems, >> and it's very annoying when it happens. >> If so, I'll make the change to an 8K buffer a standard part of FreeBSD. > >Hmm. Perhaps make it a kernel compile option, and if user-land >programs need to know the size of the buffer, add a sysctl (or Yes, we can make just about anything a compile-time option and yes, the size of the message buffer should be tuneable. BUT, that's not my point. If it is generally considered that 8K is what is needed, then we should increase the size irrespective of whether or not it is tuneable. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 20:16:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA21110 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 20:16:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA21097 for freebsd-hackers; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 20:16:53 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199602290416.UAA21097@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: xdm running two sessions HOW? To: freebsd-hackers Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 20:16:52 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk i have removed the getty from two consoles. how can i get xdm to start two sessions? /etc/ttys: ttyv2 "/usr/libexec/getty Pc" cons25 off insecure ttyv3 "/usr/libexec/getty Pc" cons25 off insecure Xservers: :0 local /usr/X11R6/bin/X :0 :1 local /usr/X11R6/bin/X :1 xdm-config: DisplayManager.errorLogFile: /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xdm/xdm-errors DisplayManager.pidFile: /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xdm/xdm-pid DisplayManager.keyFile: /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xdm/xdm-keys DisplayManager.servers: /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xdm/Xservers DisplayManager.accessFile: /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xdm/Xaccess DisplayManager._0.authorize: true DisplayManager._0.setup: /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xdm/Xsetup_0 DisplayManager._0.startup: /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xdm/GiveConsole DisplayManager._0.reset: /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xdm/TakeConsole DisplayManager*resources: /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xdm/Xresources DisplayManager*session: /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xdm/Xsession DisplayManager*authComplain: false DisplayManager._1.authorize: true doesnt work. neither xdm session. checked the email archives. seems i asked about this a year ago ;) didnt get it working then either ;( xdm-errors does not show any problems. diff'ing against my usual xdm-errors show that 2 sessions were started. but it seems that they are on top of each other? or that :1 starts first on ttyv2 instead of :0 starting first and getting ttyv2 then :1 starting and using ttyv3 xdm-errors: (the two sessions are intermixed. need to create an xdm-errors for each one) XFree86 Version 3.1.1 / X Window System (protocol Version 11, revision 0, vendor release 6000) Operating System: FreeBSD 2.0 Configured drivers: S3: accelerated server for S3 graphics adaptors (Patchlevel 0) mmio_928, s3_generic Using syscons driver with X support (version 2.0) (using VT number 3) XF86Config: /etc/XF86Config (**) stands for supplied, (--) stands for probed/default values (**) Mouse: type: MouseSystems, device: /dev/mouse, baudrate: 1200 (**) S3: Graphics device ID: "Number Nine GXE64" (**) S3: Monitor ID: "Sony Multiscan 15sf" (--) S3: Mode "1280x1024" needs hsync freq of 64.25 kHz. Deleted. (--) S3: Mode "1280x1024" needs hsync freq of 78.86 kHz. Deleted. Warning: The directory "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. Warning: The directory "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo/" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. XFree86 Version 3.1.1 / X Window System (protocol Version 11, revision 0, vendor release 6000) Operating System: FreeBSD 2.0 Configured drivers: S3: accelerated server for S3 graphics adaptors (Patchlevel 0) mmio_928, s3_generic Using syscons driver with X support (version 2.0) (using VT number 4) XF86Config: /etc/XF86Config (**) stands for supplied, (--) stands for probed/default values (**) Mouse: type: MouseSystems, device: /dev/mouse, baudrate: 1200 (**) S3: Graphics device ID: "Number Nine GXE64" (**) S3: Monitor ID: "Sony Multiscan 15sf" (--) S3: Mode "1280x1024" needs hsync freq of 64.25 kHz. Deleted. (--) S3: Mode "1280x1024" needs hsync freq of 78.86 kHz. Deleted. Warning: The directory "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. Warning: The directory "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo/" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. Warning: The directory "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. Warning: The directory "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. Warning: 'fonts.dir' not found (or not valid) in "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/PEX/" . Entry deleted from font path. (Run 'mkfontdir' on "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/PEX/"). (**) FontPath set to "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75 dpi/" Warning: 'fonts.dir' not found (or not valid) in "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/PEX/" . Entry deleted from font path. (Run 'mkfontdir' on "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/PEX/"). (**) FontPath set to "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75 dpi/" (**) S3: Option "dac_8_bit" (**) S3: Option "number_nine" (--) S3: card type: PCI (--) S3: chipset: 864 rev. 1 (**) S3: chipset driver: mmio_928 (**) S3: videoram: 2048k (**) S3: Ramdac type: att20c498 (--) S3: Ramdac speed: 135 (**) S3: Using ICD2061A programmable clock (**) S3: Option "dac_8_bit" (**) S3: Option "number_nine" (--) S3: card type: PCI (--) S3: chipset: 864 rev. 1 (**) S3: chipset driver: mmio_928 (**) S3: videoram: 2048k (**) S3: Ramdac type: att20c498 (--) S3: Ramdac speed: 135 (**) S3: Using ICD2061A programmable clock (--) S3: Maximum allowed dot-clock: 135.000 MHz (**) S3: Mode "640x480": mode clock = 31.500 (**) S3: Mode "800x600": mode clock = 50.000 (**) S3: Mode "1024x768": mode clock = 85.000 (**) S3: Putting RAMDAC into 8-bit mode (--) S3: Using 8 bits per RGB value (**) S3: Virtual resolution set to 1024x768 (--) S3: Maximum allowed dot-clock: 135.000 MHz (**) S3: Mode "640x480": mode clock = 31.500 (**) S3: Mode "800x600": mode clock = 50.000 (**) S3: Mode "1024x768": mode clock = 85.000 (**) S3: Putting RAMDAC into 8-bit mode (--) S3: Using 8 bits per RGB value (**) S3: Virtual resolution set to 1024x768 (--) S3: Local bus LAW is 0xF3000000 (--) S3: Local bus LAW is 0xF3000000 (--) S3: Using a banksize of 2048k, line width of 1024 (--) S3: Using a banksize of 2048k, line width of 1024 (--) S3: Using a single 64x64 area at (960,769) for expanding pixmaps (--) S3: Using 8 planes of 1024x1215 at (0,833) aligned 8 as font cache (--) S3: Using a single 64x64 area at (960,769) for expanding pixmaps (--) S3: Using 8 planes of 1024x1215 at (0,833) aligned 8 as font cache ls -Flag /usr/X11/lib/X11/xdm total 46 drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Feb 28 22:54 ./ drwxr-xr-x 17 bin bin 512 May 30 1995 ../ -rw------- 1 root wheel 44 Feb 28 22:53 A:0-000119 -rw------- 1 root wheel 44 Feb 28 22:53 A:1-000119 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 390 Jan 28 1995 GiveConsole* -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 249 Jan 28 1995 TakeConsole* -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 1976 Jan 28 1995 Xaccess -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 1047 Jan 28 1995 Xresources -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 523 Feb 28 22:40 Xservers -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 639 Jan 28 1995 Xsession* -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 150 Jan 28 1995 Xsetup_0* -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 12 Feb 28 22:30 Xsetup_1* -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 20480 Jan 28 1995 chooser* -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 813 Feb 28 22:31 xdm-config -rw-rw-r-- 1 root wheel 4238 Feb 28 22:53 xdm-errors -rw-rw-r-- 1 root wheel 4238 Feb 28 22:54 xdm-errors.sav -rw-rw-r-- 1 root wheel 6 Feb 28 22:53 xdm-pid ls -Flag /tmp total 5 drwxrwxrwt 3 bin bin 512 Feb 28 22:53 ./ drwxr-xr-x 17 root wheel 512 Feb 25 14:23 ../ -r--r--r-- 1 root bin 11 Feb 28 22:53 .X0-lock -r--r--r-- 1 root bin 11 Feb 28 22:53 .X1-lock drwxrwxrwx 2 root bin 512 Feb 28 22:53 .X11-unix/ ls -Flag /tmp/.X11-unix total 2 drwxrwxrwx 2 root bin 512 Feb 28 22:53 ./ drwxrwxrwt 3 bin bin 512 Feb 28 22:53 ../ srwxrwxrwx 1 root bin 0 Feb 28 22:53 X0= srwxrwxrwx 1 root bin 0 Feb 28 22:53 X1= Aspen:[5] cat Xsetup_0 #!/bin/sh # $XConsortium: Xsetup_0,v 1.3 93/09/28 14:30:31 gildea Exp $ xconsole -geometry 480x130-0-0 -daemon -notify -verbose -fn fixed -exitOnFail Aspen:[6] cat Xsetup_1 #!/bin/sh : -- Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD--4.4BSD Unix for PC clones, source included. http://www.freebsd.org/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 20:20:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA21565 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 20:20:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA21544 Wed, 28 Feb 1996 20:20:28 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199602290420.UAA21544@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Latest 2.1R panic. Hmm. To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 20:20:26 -0800 (PST) Cc: gpalmer@FreeBSD.ORG, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602290412.UAA08136@Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Feb 28, 96 08:12:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk David Greenman wrote: > Yes, we can make just about anything a compile-time option and yes, the > size of the message buffer should be tuneable. BUT, that's not my point. If > it is generally considered that 8K is what is needed, then we should increase > the size irrespective of whether or not it is tuneable. please increse the size to 8k. dmesg | wc -c shows 2814 immediately after boot. it will only increase and people get more "stuff" attached to their systems. and my system is small. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 20:38:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA23050 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 20:38:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA23039 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 20:38:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA00906; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 21:38:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199602290438.VAA00906@rover.village.org> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:50:08 PST Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 21:38:14 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk : and there was a company supporting it : commercially (if I'm not mistaken it was ParcPlace, though memory dims : after more than a decade). I don't think was ParcPlace. At least they weren't admitting to it when they purchased us in 1992. They only went back to about 1988 or so. At least's that when I recall the released their first C++ product, less than one year after releasing their first Smalltalk product. They did have a cool and bitchin' C++ class browser that didn't go anywhere due to soft demand. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 20:53:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA24261 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 20:53:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA24247 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 20:53:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.4/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id UAA22752; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 20:52:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 20:52:22 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: Sean Kelly cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, terry@lambert.org, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, jehamby@lightside.com, root@dihelix.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-Reply-To: <9602290046.AA13427@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Sean Kelly wrote: > I like the sound of ``FreeBSD: a better Linux than Linux.'' I like the sound of "FreeBSD: a better Unix than Linux." =) == Chris Layne ============================================================== == coredump@nervosa.com ================= http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 21:15:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA26394 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 21:15:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA26378 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 21:14:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA10333; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 22:05:57 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602290505.WAA10333@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 22:05:56 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jehamby@lightside.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, root@dihelix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4632.825559161@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 28, 96 05:59:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Picture, if you will, a UNIX consultant talking to the product manager > for Foobolix at Foonetics, Inc: > > "You say you want to support this product on ``UNIX''? Ah... OK, > go get ahold of some Solaris, AIX, HP/UX, SCO and OSF/1 machines > (plus maybe a SunOS partition for the hold-outs), hire at least 3 > engineers and prepare to spend 3-6 months at it. Oh yeah, you'll > also need to keep the machines around more or less indefinitely > for ongoing support." > > [a strangling noise is heard over the phone] > > "Hello? Are you OK? Yes, I do admit that this is 6 times the effort > for a market perhaps 1/100th the size of Windows.. No, it doesn't make > any sense, I agree. Excuse me? No, I'm afraid that the free UNIX market > isn't in much better shape. There are at least 3 different variants for the > Intel architecture alone, and each has its own distinct ABI." This depends highly on how the application was written in the first place. For apps like Word Perfect, whose ide of a port was to write an assembly-to-C translator and rewrite the parts that touch hardware after running the assembly-only code through the translator, you're right. For the products that I've been involved with, you're wrong (one of them supported over 140 UNIX platforms. I'm not kidding.). I'll admit up front that much DOS programming isn't written portably up front (which explains the amount of time the Windows version then the Windows95 version then the Win32/WinNT version... etc. is takeing to port). I can't help people who shoot themselves in the foot and then wait until they go to port to realize their foot is gone. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 21:45:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA29628 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 21:45:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from anacreon.sol.net ([206.55.64.116]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA29613 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 21:45:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from solaria.sol.net (solaria.sol.net [206.55.65.75]) by anacreon.sol.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA03982 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 23:45:01 -0600 Received: from localhost by solaria.sol.net (8.5/8.5) id XAA09757; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 23:46:09 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602290546.XAA09757@solaria.sol.net> Subject: Cool! An all new ROUTER FLOPPY To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 28 Feb 96 23:46:05 CST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL65] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I spent some time messing around tonite and wound up being able to build a nifty one-diskette "router floppy". It is just a proof of concept, probably won't work in < 8MB RAM, etc., but if anyone wants to look at it, it's at ftp://ftp.freebsd.sol.net/pub/router.flp There are several notable problems with it :-) But it's still very cool that you can squeeze the essence of UNIX into just a few hundred gzip'ped kilobytes. If there is any interest I may consider tidying up my build process and putting the whole thing up for ftp. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 21:49:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA29885 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 21:49:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from maui.com (root@waena.mrtc.maui.com [199.4.33.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA29880 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 21:49:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from caliban.dihelix.com (caliban.dihelix.com [199.4.33.251]) by maui.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA21531; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 19:54:29 -1000 Received: (from root@localhost) by caliban.dihelix.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) id TAA01892; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 19:49:18 -1000 (HST) Message-Id: <199602290549.TAA01892@caliban.dihelix.com> Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 19:49:18 -1000 (HST) From: "David Langford" Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, terry@lambert.org, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Feb 28, 96 06:29:07 pm From: "David Langford" X-blank-line: This space intentionaly left blank. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >Anyway, if the UNIX community collectively swallowed their pride and >decided what would give them the most applications, the OSF would buy out >TWIN and declare Win32 the standard Unix ABI! One can only hope.. :-) > >---Jake Ah the OSF. I suppose the "new Unix ABI" would be as available as Motif From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 21:57:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA00584 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 21:57:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from fw.ast.com (fw.ast.com [165.164.6.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA00575 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 21:57:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from nemesis by fw.ast.com with uucp (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0ts1Ju-00084gC; Wed, 28 Feb 96 23:54 CST Received: by nemesis.lonestar.org (Smail3.1.27.1 #20) id m0ts1HA-000DAUC; Wed, 28 Feb 96 23:51 WET Message-Id: Date: Wed, 28 Feb 96 23:51 WET To: hackers@freebsd.org From: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Sent: Wed Feb 28 1996, 23:51:39 CST Subject: FDDI support: Where are we? Cc: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Will someone send me (Email is fine) a snapshot report on the availability of FDDI cards (PCI or otherwise) that have FreeBSD drivers or that have drivers in the works? A major ISP I am doing some contract work with wanted to know and I haven't been keeping up with that area since I couldn't afford or use this stuff. Thanks. Frank Durda IV |"The Knights who say "LETNi" or uhclem%nemesis@rwsystr.nkn.net | demand... A SEGMENT REGISTER!!!" |"A what?" or ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem |"LETNi! LETNi! LETNi!" - 1983 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 22:07:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA01418 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 22:07:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from dtr.com ([204.119.17.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA01319 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 22:05:50 -0800 (PST) From: bmk@dtr.com Received: (from bmk@localhost) by dtr.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA01666; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:34:11 -0800 Message-Id: <199602282034.MAA01666@dtr.com> Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:34:11 -0800 (PST) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <2596.825529991@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 28, 96 09:53:11 am Reply-To: bmk@dtr.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Fine , arrange it . I like to go "down" fighting not standing down. > Well, that's generally an admirable strategy for charging up San Juan > hill (if you're Teddy Rosevelt, anyway) but I don't think that it's > going to buy us anything with ID. I will, nonetheless, send a message > to Dave Taylor asking him to publically clarify their position on > Quake in this newsgroup. > In the meantime, I think the strategy most likely to get positive > results is to get folks to hack on the ELF emulation. The NetBSD camp > certainly seems to be getting good results with that, and I wouldn't > even be surprised to hear they got sound working at some point soon. > They've been ahead in the emulation arena for some time now, and if we > should be feeling bad about anything, it's that. Agreed. > > If they don't make port for FreeBSD can you remove the stuff from > > the ftp.cdrom.com site. This is my thinking they are so in love with [snip] Anybody that thinks this has even a snowball's chance in hell of doing anything constructive, I direct your attention to ftp.idsoftware.com. They already mirror (what appears to be) all of ftp.cdrom.com's id-related stuff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 22:43:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA05878 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 22:43:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA05867 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 22:43:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id HAA04332 ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 07:42:33 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id HAA14928 ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 07:42:32 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.3/keltia-uucp-2.7) id BAA05669; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 01:46:23 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199602290046.BAA05669@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: Where is NoName the Latex WYSIWYG? To: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 01:46:23 +0100 (MET) Cc: john@gateway.net.hk, spaz@u.washington.edu, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from Chuck Robey at "Feb 17, 96 11:49:55 am" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1688 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL10 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Chuck Robey said: > nslookup is telling me ftp.via.exp.fr doesn't exist. Is this some > temporary snafu? Could you please double check the address you gave above? ftp.via.ecp.fr should work. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #1: Tue Feb 20 01:16:51 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 23:08:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA08809 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 23:08:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA08551 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 23:07:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA06536; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 23:05:11 -0800 Message-Id: <199602290705.XAA06536@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: bmk@dtr.com cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 12:34:11 PST." <199602282034.MAA01666@dtr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 23:05:10 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> bmk@dtr.com said: > Anybody that thinks this has even a snowball's chance in hell of doing > anything constructive, I direct your attention to ftp.idsoftware.com. > > They already mirror (what appears to be) all of ftp.cdrom.com's > id-related stuff. You know I did try today to take a look however I couldn't get to ftp.id... whatever because it was solidly busy for hours. Yet strangely enough I was able to get into ftp.cdrom.com. So guess where I will go in the future and yes I fully realized that I am the only in the group that will prefer to go to ftp.cdrom.com to get iD stuff 8) Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 23:32:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA12634 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 23:32:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA12621 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 23:32:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0ts2qJ-000I8sC; Thu, 29 Feb 96 08:32 MET Received: by ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0ts2ct-00001UC; Thu, 29 Feb 96 08:18 MET Message-Id: From: hm@altona.hamburg.com (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: xforms maintenance tools (was Re: Tcl/Tk sysinstall) To: jerry@border.com (Jerry Kendall) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:18:11 +0100 (MET) Cc: hm@altona.hamburg.com, mikee@sys8.wfc.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <96Feb28.161732est.20487-2@janus.border.com> from "Jerry Kendall" at Feb 28, 96 04:09:33 pm Reply-To: hm@altona.hamburg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >From the keyboard of Jerry Kendall: > > One should use a toolkit which runs under both X and curses. > All these tools are ONLY available under X/Openwindows on Sun systems.. Check out ctk which is curses based. Programs run unmodified under X. Available for free for any platform supporting plain X and plain curses. hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 23:32:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA12655 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 23:32:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA12633 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 23:32:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0ts2qK-000I8tC; Thu, 29 Feb 96 08:32 MET Received: by ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0ts2kP-00001UC; Thu, 29 Feb 96 08:25 MET Message-Id: From: hm@altona.hamburg.com (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: xforms maintenance tools (was Re: Tcl/Tk sysinstall) To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:25:57 +0100 (MET) Cc: jerry@border.com, hm@altona.hamburg.com, mikee@sys8.wfc.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602282223.PAA09082@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Feb 28, 96 03:23:42 pm Reply-To: hm@altona.hamburg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >From the keyboard of Nate Williams: > > > One should use a toolkit which runs under both X and curses. > > > > Memory is cheap. So is disk space... > > Yeah right. 16MB of memory is $700, and 1 Gig of disk is around $1500 > for my laptop. I can buy a fully loaded desktop Pentium for the cost of > those two parts alone. A laptop that runs X nicely is gonna cost you > about $5k, which is more than most can spend. A laptop that can run > FreeBSD nicely will set you back about $2.5K, about half. > > X is *not* an option for many laptop owners, and judging for the > responses I've seen recently laptop computing is becoming very popular > (and common). Its not only the laptop. For many server type machines (which are probably remote maintained) it does not make any sense to install X, but it does make sense to have some (fullscreen) systems administration tools available. In my job i work mainly with HP 9000/800 machines, and one thing they really did right was to make it possible to run the system adminstration tool (sam) in both character mode and under X. In case i do local systems management i'll use the X version, remote i can easily use the character based one. It saved (not only) us countless thousands of kilometers travelling .... hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 23:41:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA14233 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 23:41:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA14222 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 23:41:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA03375; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:44:13 +0100 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Message-Id: <199602290744.IAA03375@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:44:12 +0100 (MET) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602290438.VAA00906@rover.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at Feb 28, 96 09:38:14 pm Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > : and there was a company supporting it > : commercially (if I'm not mistaken it was ParcPlace, though memory dims > : after more than a decade). Productivity Products International later StepStone (or vice versa) (both Brad Cox's companies) > > I don't think was ParcPlace. At least they weren't admitting to it > when they purchased us in 1992. They only went back to about 1988 or > so. At least's that when I recall the released their first C++ > product, less than one year after releasing their first Smalltalk > product. They did have a cool and bitchin' C++ class browser that > didn't go anywhere due to soft demand. > > Warner > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 28 23:48:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA15803 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 23:48:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA15781 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 23:48:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.4/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id XAA23363; Wed, 28 Feb 1996 23:45:57 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 23:45:57 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: "Louis A. Mamakos" cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Jake Hamby , Narvi , Poul-Henning Kamp , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement... In-Reply-To: <199602290404.XAA16136@wa3ymh.transsys.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Louis A. Mamakos wrote: > EISA - good riddens! I dread everytime I open the machine up at work > and having to invoke the spirits on the EISA config disk. I just know How dare you talk about the gods of EISA like that! :P == Chris Layne ============================================================= == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 00:12:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA20327 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 00:12:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA20322 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 00:12:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA03506; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:16:01 +0100 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Message-Id: <199602290816.JAA03506@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: FDDI support: Where are we? To: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:16:00 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org In-Reply-To: from "Frank Durda IV" at Feb 28, 96 11:51:00 pm Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > Will someone send me (Email is fine) a snapshot report on the availability > of FDDI cards (PCI or otherwise) that have FreeBSD drivers or that have > drivers in the works? I wouldn't mind seeing this listed here in public. Perhaps we can add 100baseX card support availability to this list also. > > A major ISP I am doing some contract work with wanted to know and I > haven't been keeping up with that area since I couldn't afford or use this > stuff. > > Thanks. > > > Frank Durda IV |"The Knights who say "LETNi" > or uhclem%nemesis@rwsystr.nkn.net | demand... A SEGMENT REGISTER!!!" > |"A what?" > or ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem |"LETNi! LETNi! LETNi!" - 1983 > > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 00:14:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA20450 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 00:14:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA20445 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 00:14:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA01718; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 00:12:26 -0800 (PST) To: Christoph Kukulies cc: imp@village.org (Warner Losh), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:44:12 +0100." <199602290744.IAA03375@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 00:12:26 -0800 Message-ID: <1716.825581546@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Productivity Products International Yes! PPI, that was it! Thanks.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 00:17:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA20688 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 00:17:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.infinet.com (mail1.infinet.com [206.103.240.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA20515 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 00:15:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from p930 (cmh-p113.infinet.com [206.103.242.119]) by mail1.infinet.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA14135; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 03:10:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <31356075.620B@cylatech.com> Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 03:14:45 -0500 From: Wilson MacGyver Organization: CylaTech Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0GoldB1 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bmk@dtr.com CC: David Langford , jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? References: <199602281452.GAA02277@dtr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk bmk@dtr.com wrote: > > > Just being curious, but why was the SGI port of doom done? > > No complaint on that- it gives me something to do with ours :) > > Doom wasn't ported to SGI. iD uses SGI as theier primary development > platform and ported it to run under DOS. No, it was a port. Doom's engine was developed on a NeXT cube. The same cube is still used to develope the Quake Engine. For the Quake, they also have an Alpha running Digital Unix to pre-compute the BSP trees, and two SGIs to to the animations. -- Wilson MacGyver macgyver@cylatech.com -------------------------------------- Veni, Vidi, Concidi. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 00:17:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA20709 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 00:17:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mramirez.sy.yale.edu (mramirez.sy.yale.edu [130.132.57.207]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA20702 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 00:17:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrami@localhost) by mramirez.sy.yale.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id DAA13550; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 03:17:47 -0500 Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 03:17:47 -0500 (EST) From: Marc Ramirez Reply-To: mrami@minerva.cis.yale.edu To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Dell Dimension P75t vs. 2.1.0-RELEASE Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk The Dell won... Main symptom: data corruption to and from hard disk (Quantum Fireball 1GB, EIDE) The disk is on a wdc on the motherboard (the motherboard has two, actually; the disk is on the primary one). The problem seems to appear during burst activity of two or three seconds of data transfer. Copying the bindist from the Win95 partition to the FreeBSD one results in a bunch of corrupt files, if it completes, or a filesystem panic. I say that the data loss occurs in bursts because the root disk is extracted successfully onto the disk, and in the large mass copy mentioned above, usually bin.aa and part of bin.ab come out okay. Of course, I never finished the install, so I can't really say if there are any other problems. Does anyone have any suggestions / workarounds / whatever? Oh, I played with a VR <-> VRE switch on the motherboard (only one I didn't know what the function was), but neither setting seemed to make a difference. As it looks now, it's going to have to run Linux (the Red Hat distribution works flawlessly). Bummer. :( Marc. Next week: re-attach the IDE CD-ROM and see if we can still get a lockup from reading. -- "I hate it when my foot falls asleep during the day cause that means it's going to be up all night." -- Steven Wright From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 00:29:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA21478 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 00:29:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA21473 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 00:29:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.4/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id AAA23925; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 00:28:35 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 00:28:34 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: Terry Lambert cc: "Amancio Hasty Jr." , jkh@time.cdrom.com, jehamby@lightside.com, root@dihelix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-Reply-To: <199602282127.OAA08984@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > America On Line. > > We need AOL client software. > Terry Lambert I would say less than .5% of AOL users are running any kind of unix. == Chris Layne ============================================================= == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 00:47:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA22480 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 00:47:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA22429 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 00:46:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA09689; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:41:05 +0200 Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:41:05 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Terry Lambert cc: Jake Hamby , terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, root@dihelix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-Reply-To: <199602290103.SAA09633@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Just like OS/2 > > claimed to be "a better DOS than DOS", why can't we make the (justified > > once we get ELF) claim of "a better Linux than Linux?" > > Uh, OS/2 hasn't been very successful compared to DOS (or Win95). At least RDBMS vendors liked it - most of them had versions running on OS/2 and still do, no matter that they also support Windows NT now.. > > > Okay, granted. But as I said, if it already runs fine on FreeBSD through > > binary emulation, then what do you gain by demanding a FreeBSD-native > > port? Sure, it'd be nice, but I know I'd rather be able to run a Linux > > version than have no version at all! > > Because it will have been regression tested on Linux but not on BSD. > > Because a commercial software vendor does not typically offer support > for an OS running their product in an emulation environment. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > Sander From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 01:03:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA23819 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 01:03:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA23808 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 01:03:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0ts4FJ-0003vmC; Thu, 29 Feb 96 01:01 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA02717; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:01:55 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: davidg@Root.COM cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Latest 2.1R panic. Hmm. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 15:47:59 PST." <199602282347.PAA07077@Root.COM> Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:01:54 +0100 Message-ID: <2715.825584514@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Is there a general consensus that wasting one extra page for the message > buffer by default is desired? I know I've overrun it myself on many systems, > and it's very annoying when it happens. > If so, I'll make the change to an 8K buffer a standard part of FreeBSD. one page is getting to be too little. Can we make it a config parameter defaulting to 2 pages ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 01:03:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA23851 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 01:03:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA23841 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 01:03:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA09739; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:00:21 +0200 Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:00:20 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Jake Hamby cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Picture, if you will, a UNIX consultant talking to the product manager > > for Foobolix at Foonetics, Inc: > > > > "You say you want to support this product on ``UNIX''? Ah... OK, > > go get ahold of some Solaris, AIX, HP/UX, SCO and OSF/1 machines > > (plus maybe a SunOS partition for the hold-outs), hire at least 3 > > engineers and prepare to spend 3-6 months at it. Oh yeah, you'll > > also need to keep the machines around more or less indefinitely > > for ongoing support." > > > > [a strangling noise is heard over the phone] > > > > "Hello? Are you OK? Yes, I do admit that this is 6 times the effort > > for a market perhaps 1/100th the size of Windows.. No, it doesn't make > > any sense, I agree. Excuse me? No, I'm afraid that the free UNIX market > > isn't in much better shape. There are at least 3 different variants for the > > Intel architecture alone, and each has its own distinct ABI." > > > > [mumble mumble gritch sigh] > > > > "Yes, in their father's footsteps as it were. Those that have fathers, > > yes. You're quite astute, sir. Perhaps we should move on to discuss the > > NT version of your product?" > > LOL!! Ain't that the truth! As I just finished posting to Terry, I would > rather have a Linux version, even unsupported, than no version at all... > > Let's scale that hypothetical conversation down.. Suppose I have a > killer idea for a small app that I want to write in my garage and market > as shareware. Well for Windows that is quite possible, hell I could > probably whip out a couple in Visual Basic before breakfast! :-) And > you can always find a market on the Web, and you can expect that maybe 5% > of the people who use your program will pay the shareware fee, and 5% of > millions of people is enough to make a decent living. > > Now let's try this with Unix! First of all, you have to give out the > source code, so whatever "Pay the shareware fee" mechanisms you put will Why should you do that? What makes you give it out? Look at the commercial and shareware section of the ports... > just be commented out in short notice, i.e. #define REGISTERED.. But > suppose you have some killer source code that you don't want people to > look through (and steal). You can distribute it as a binary, but then > you need, as you mentioned, a Sun, a SGI, AIX, HP-UX, in other words > $100,000 worth of workstations, just to COMPILE the damn thing, so for > the small-time vendor that is out of the picture. Otherwise you can try Have you ever heard of such things as companies doing you PCB prototyping? Buy just one and make money buy letting others compile their programs on it... You can make it almost absolutely secure by using public key cryptography and IDEA (or triple-IDEA, if you are real conserned :)) You don't have to buy a newest Sun, a big monitor, the best graphics accelerator to start. Sun sells used sun's with full warranty... > to "obscure" the source code with some sort of variable-mangling Perl > script, but that isn't too secure, and if you're including "patented" > code, would not be acceptable (case in point, the Cinepak and Indeo > codecs in the XAnim movie player, which the author distributes in ".o" > form to link with the rest of the source, and generated most of them using > GCC cross-compilers on his Sun). > > Anyway, if the UNIX community collectively swallowed their pride and > decided what would give them the most applications, the OSF would buy out > TWIN and declare Win32 the standard Unix ABI! One can only hope.. :-) No comments :( > > ---Jake > Sander From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 01:15:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA24710 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 01:15:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub.aros.net (mailhub.aros.net [205.164.111.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA24702 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 01:15:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from terra.aros.net (terra.aros.net [205.164.111.10]) by mailhub.aros.net (8.6.12/Unknown) with ESMTP id CAA12186 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 02:17:22 -0700 Received: (from angio@localhost) by terra.aros.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA19896 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 02:15:41 -0700 From: Dave Andersen Message-Id: <199602290915.CAA19896@terra.aros.net> Subject: Re: 100-baseT hub recommendation? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 02:15:41 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <199602290256.VAA08500@gaboon.nai.net> from "Stan Voket" at Feb 28, 96 09:56:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On a related note, we've been purchasing SMC Etherpower 10/100's for our new FreeBSD boxes in preparation for upgrading a hub to 100baseT, but my counterpart here feels much more inclined towards using the Intel 100baseT cards. I noticed they've slipped in to -stable recently, but I'd love to hear from someone about how they're working in a production environment? (Quite obviously, the SMC's work like an absolute charm under FreeBSD). -Dave Lo and behold, Stan Voket once said: > > > Hi, > > I'd like to start puting some 100-baset networking in here and am > wondering if someone would suggest some appropriate 100 or 10/100 hubs > they have had success with. War stories appreciated too. This is for > FreeBSD of course! > > Thanks you! :-) > > Stan > > -- > - Stan Voket, asv@gaboon.nai.net - http://gaboon.nai.net - > - Voice: 203.746-4489 - FAX 203.746.9761 - TELEX 969.642/CARIN DURY - > Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. > -- angio@aros.net Complete virtual hosting and business-oriented system administration Internet services. (WWW, FTP, email) http://www.aros.net/ http://www.aros.net/about/virtual/ "There are only two industries that refer to thier customers as 'users'." From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 01:54:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA27907 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 01:54:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA27894 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 01:54:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id FAA11294; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 05:05:35 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199602291005.FAA11294@hda.com> Subject: Re: Cool! An all new ROUTER FLOPPY To: jgreco@solaria.sol.net (Joe Greco) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 05:05:34 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602290546.XAA09757@solaria.sol.net> from "Joe Greco" at Feb 28, 96 11:46:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk (...) > ftp://ftp.freebsd.sol.net/pub/router.flp > > There are several notable problems with it :-) But it's still very cool > that you can squeeze the essence of UNIX into just a few hundred gzip'ped > kilobytes. > > If there is any interest I may consider tidying up my build process and > putting the whole thing up for ftp. Now make it work read-only off the boot floppy and write to a second floppy and we have (pretty much) ROM boot FLASH persistent storage. -- Peter Dufault Real-Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 02:49:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA01040 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 02:49:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc6.ihf.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.90.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA00802 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 02:42:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from thomas@localhost) by ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA06176; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:40:36 +0100 Message-Id: <199602291040.LAA06176@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: xforms maintenance tools (was Re: Tcl/Tk sysinstall) To: hm@altona.hamburg.com Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:40:36 +0100 (MET) From: "Thomas Gellekum" Cc: jerry@border.com, mikee@sys8.wfc.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Hellmuth Michaelis" at Feb 29, 96 08:18:11 am Organization: Institut f. Hochfrequenztechnik, RWTH Aachen X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hellmuth Michaelis wrote: > > > > One should use a toolkit which runs under both X and curses. > > > All these tools are ONLY available under X/Openwindows on Sun systems.. > > Check out ctk which is curses based. Programs run unmodified under X. > Available for free for any platform supporting plain X and plain curses. ports/misc/ctk. tg From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 03:01:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA01520 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 03:01:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.digital.com (mail1.digital.com [204.123.2.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA01515 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 03:01:08 -0800 (PST) From: garyj@frt.dec.com Received: from cssmuc.frt.dec.com by mail1.digital.com (5.65 EXP 4/12/95 for V3.2/1.0/WV) id AA30021; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 02:56:01 -0800 Received: from localhost by cssmuc.frt.dec.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/14Nov95-0232PM) id AA15299; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:55:50 +0100 Message-Id: <9602291055.AA15299@cssmuc.frt.dec.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com In-Reply-To: Message from "Jordan K. Hubbard" of Wed, 28 Feb 96 09:53:11 PST. Reply-To: gjennejohn@frt.dec.com Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 11:55:49 +0100 X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk jkh@time.cdrom.com writes: > Personally, I fail to see what the big fuss is all about. I've never > even played quake and probably won't have the time anytime soon this > year for it or any other game. I daresay that those of us with > similar TODO-lists-from-hell are finding themselves in the same boat. > All this fuss over a game? Who the hell has time to play games? I > honestly couldn't care less what ID is up to. > at last, a voice of reason crying in the wilderness ! It's *only* a game ! There are more important things to worry about. Or do I detect a hint of penis-envy in all this outrage ? ;-) (will I get nailed by the Feds for that ?) --- Gary Jennejohn (work) gjennejohn@frt.dec.com (home) Gary.Jennejohn@munich.netsurf.de (play) gj@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 03:22:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA03162 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 03:22:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA03152 Thu, 29 Feb 1996 03:22:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from exalt.x.org by expo.x.org id AA04323; Thu, 29 Feb 96 06:22:14 -0500 Received: from localhost by exalt.x.org id LAA17610; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:22:13 GMT Message-Id: <199602291122.LAA17610@exalt.x.org> To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: xdm running two sessions HOW? In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 28 Feb 1996 20:16:52 EDT. <199602290416.UAA21097@freefall.freebsd.org> Organization: X Consortium Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 06:22:13 EDT From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > i have removed the getty from two consoles. > > how can i get xdm to start two sessions? > > /etc/ttys: > ttyv2 "/usr/libexec/getty Pc" cons25 off insecure > ttyv3 "/usr/libexec/getty Pc" cons25 off insecure > > Xservers: > :0 local /usr/X11R6/bin/X :0 > :1 local /usr/X11R6/bin/X :1 > I'm pretty sure there's a race condition even though your xdm-error log shows that two servers did use two different VTs. You probably want to use the -vt option to force a particular server onto an explicit VT, e.g.: :0 local /usr/X11R6/bin/X :0 -vt 3 :1 local /usr/X11R6/bin/X :1 -vt 4 -- Kaleb KEITHLEY From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 03:32:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA03685 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 03:32:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA03675 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 03:32:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0ts6aZ-000I8oC; Thu, 29 Feb 96 12:32 MET Received: by ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0ts6G5-00001UC; Thu, 29 Feb 96 12:10 MET Message-Id: From: hm@altona.hamburg.com (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: pcvt tweaking To: ernie@spooky.eis.net.au (Ernie Elu) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 12:10:53 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602282239.IAA11990@spooky.eis.net.au> from "Ernie Elu" at Feb 29, 96 08:39:43 am Reply-To: hm@altona.hamburg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >From the keyboard of Ernie Elu: > I am trying to run pcvt in 132 column mode under FreeBSD 2.1 as the > 80column limit on the standard syscons driver is a waste on my 17" screen. > > pcvt seems to be working except for a couple of things. > > Underlined text comes out as white text on an orange background with no > underline at all. This is ok! Normally a VGA connected to a colour monitor cannot underline so the underline attribute is mapped by default to the colours you told us. > Bold text comes out as white text on a blue background. This is also ok! Because a VT220 can display more characters than a standard VGA font RAM can hold, the intense bit was remapped to support the display of more characters and the intense attribute was mapped to blue. > Any ideas on how to get these working right? They are working "right" - you simply cannot get "all" out of the limited capabilities of a VGA in character mode. > Anyone know how to get coloured text on the 132 x 40 screen? By using ANSI escape sequences, a demo can be found in /usr/src/usr.sbin/pcvt/demo/colors.vt.gz.uu. > scon -p does not seem to do anything. It does, have a look at man scon or the various files under /usr/src/usr.sbin/pcvt/Misc/Doc. > Also has anyone hacked the keyboard setup so that you can switch consoles > with alt+F instead of ctrl+alt+F ? You have to hack the source to make it work. hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 03:36:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA03919 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 03:36:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.digital.com (mail1.digital.com [204.123.2.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA03882 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 03:36:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com by mail1.digital.com (5.65 EXP 4/12/95 for V3.2/1.0/WV) id AA27046; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 03:34:23 -0800 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id DAA00656; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 03:32:23 -0800 Message-Id: <199602291132.DAA00656@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: gjennejohn@frt.dec.com Cc: hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:55:49 +0100." <9602291055.AA15299@cssmuc.frt.dec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 03:32:23 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >>> garyj@frt.dec.com said: > > at last, a voice of reason crying in the wilderness ! It's *only* a > game ! There are more important things to worry about. > > Or do I detect a hint of penis-envy in all this outrage ? ;-) (will I get > nailed by the Feds for that ?) > No penis-envy here . Lets see let me boot dos , run Terminal Velocity and for hardware well lets settle for a 3d graphic hardware engine and for sound well there is only one choice a GUS PnP. Terminal Velocity, Tv, is much better 3d action game than quake shit 8) Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 04:36:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA07897 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 04:36:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.digital.com (mail1.digital.com [204.123.2.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA07891 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 04:36:05 -0800 (PST) From: garyj@frt.dec.com Received: from cssmuc.frt.dec.com by mail1.digital.com (5.65 EXP 4/12/95 for V3.2/1.0/WV) id AA08760; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 04:31:42 -0800 Received: from localhost by cssmuc.frt.dec.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/14Nov95-0232PM) id AA00579; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:30:45 +0100 Message-Id: <9602291230.AA00579@cssmuc.frt.dec.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com Cc: willows%throck.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com In-Reply-To: Message from "Amancio Hasty Jr." of Wed, 28 Feb 96 19:53:29 PST. Reply-To: gjennejohn@frt.dec.com Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 13:30:44 +0100 X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk hasty@rah.star-gate.com writes: > > Probably our best hope is the Willows stuff . If we can run a decent > 32bit OS and then just turn around and run Windows apps that would be > cool . > well, the interpreter supposedly runs just fine, just a little slow. I personally haven't tried it. It would be nice if more people would try out the native willows (hint, hint). It's kind of tough trying to do it all by myself. Darn, I really *do* have to make the latest version of ExecFreeBSD.c available ! --- Gary Jennejohn (work) gjennejohn@frt.dec.com (home) Gary.Jennejohn@munich.netsurf.de (play) gj@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 04:36:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA07911 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 04:36:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA07896 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 04:36:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA24619; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 23:08:15 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602291238.XAA24619@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: tcpdump changes To: lyndon@orthanc.com (Lyndon Nerenberg VE7TCP) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 23:08:14 +1030 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602290146.RAA05053@multivac.orthanc.com> from "Lyndon Nerenberg VE7TCP" at Feb 28, 96 05:46:08 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Lyndon Nerenberg VE7TCP stands accused of saying: > > Is there anything out there (expect scripts or the like) that will > break if the output format of -x changes? I would like to avoid adding > another option for ASCII output if at all possible. I like the idea, however perhaps you could activate it by specifying the 'x' option twice. This minimises your incompatabilities, but doesn't pollute the option space any more. ie. -x gives traditional output, but -xx or -x -x gives the new format. > --lyndon -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 04:38:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA07970 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 04:38:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA07959 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 04:38:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id HAA11962 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 07:51:47 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199602291251.HAA11962@hda.com> Subject: How to use the sup'd CVS tree? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 07:51:47 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have now sup'd the cvs tree and have what looks like the -current release, and I can do "cvs gets", etc, locally. But I don't understand the process for working in -current and getting patches for -stable for local test. 0. (Basic assertion I think is correct) There is no "cvs awareness" in sup, and sup will simply update my sup tree to match what is on freefall. 1. How do I "sup" again? I assume most info is kept in the local working directory, so if all I have is locally checked out modules I can go ahead and "sup cvs" when I want, and it is only when I want to commit my changes that I have to be careful. 2. Do I commit back on freefall and then get my updates in the next sup? 3. How do I do local revision control, in conjunction with question 1? If I'm doing extensive work can I create a local branch so that I can keep local changes under revision control without having "sup" step on me? I don't see how this would play with assertion 0 without creating branches back on freefall. D. Where is -stable? Is it a branch somewhere in what I got in "sup cvs"? 5. Am I on the right track? I looked around on freefall and don't see these questions answered. -- Peter Dufault Real-Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 05:03:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA08855 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 05:03:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from goombay.irbs.com (goombay.irbs.com [205.216.79.250]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA08850 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 05:03:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jc@localhost) by goombay.irbs.com (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA07927; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:03:13 -0500 Message-Id: <199602291303.IAA07927@goombay.irbs.com> Subject: Re: 100-baseT hub recommendation? To: angio@aros.net (Dave Andersen) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:03:13 -0500 (EST) From: "John Capo" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602290915.CAA19896@terra.aros.net> from "Dave Andersen" at Feb 29, 96 02:15:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Dave Andersen writes: > > On a related note, we've been purchasing SMC Etherpower 10/100's for our > new FreeBSD boxes in preparation for upgrading a hub to 100baseT, but my > counterpart here feels much more inclined towards using the Intel > 100baseT cards. I noticed they've slipped in to -stable recently, but > I'd love to hear from someone about how they're working in a production > environment? > I put one in a clients web server a few weeks ago and its doing fine. Not a real busy server, about .5Gig/day. John Capo jc@irbs.com IRBS Engineering High performance FreeBSD systems (305) 792-9551 Internet Consulting - ISP Solutions From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 05:07:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA09030 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 05:07:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from wa3ymh.transsys.com (#6@wa3ymh.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.42]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA09013 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 05:07:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from wa3ymh.transsys.com (#6@localhost.TransSys.COM [127.0.0.1]) by wa3ymh.transsys.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA17070; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:03:17 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199602291303.IAA17070@wa3ymh.transsys.com> To: Terry Lambert cc: coredump@nervosa.com (invalid opcode), narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:52:37 MST." <199602290052.RAA09543@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:03:15 -0500 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Narvi wrote: > > > Talking about real good GUIs... How do you define one? Windows certainly > > > Sander > > > > NeXTStep. > > Why is it that all good ideas are never liked by the stupid human public. > > Because of the lame proprietary technology you have to license to > implement the idea (Display PostScript) and the lame idea of making > your computer run like a snail whenever you print by moving the > processing (PostScript) from the printer to the computer because > it's too expensive to implement any other way? You don't have to run the printer using the DPS interpreter on the NeXTSTEP platform. If you did, you got a printer that ran faster than most of the printers you could buy in that day. That is, you had a 68030 rendering, rather than the usual 68000 you'd find in the canonical Apple Laserwriter at the time. What you got at the time was a 400 dpi (hi res!) printer that ran faster than most. Of course, like diskless workstations, that was an economical optimization that doesn't make sense these days. I actually used an external NEC LC890 PostScript printer on my NextStation at home. > The GUI was cool, the "Objective C" was "Objectionable" (we'll just > define this *new* language so we don't have to learn C++ and because > we thing we can jack GCC into compiling it without giving the sources > out so it can be ported to other platforms). The browser was cool, > the "dock" was OK (I guess; it was pretty limited in the number of > apps it could contain), and the login screen was cool. I've done non-trivial application development in Objective-C, and I've got some friends who've done large Objective-C and C++ development work, and we all agreed that we prefer Objective-C. Too many bells and whistles in C++, plus the lack of dynamic binding. Of course, this is a flamefest in it's own right. The initial implementation of Objective C (I think in the 0.8 release) was still a preprocessor based on the StepStone complier. Things were much improved after GCC became a native compiler. > The initial lack of color really sucked. The use of mixed text and > binary databases for things sucked. The inability to use a remote > display sucked. The "Mach domain" sockets sucked. The need to > load apps from a server and run them locally instead of running on > an application server sucked. The lack of a floppy drive sucked. > The speed of the optical sucked. Yup, I have to agree with you on all accounts here. They lamed out on the OS support for the platform, and there was no reason all this stuff couldn't be better. I still lament the lack of a NextStep interface each and everytime I sit down in front of an (ugh!) X display with the lame-o excuse of a "GUI design". > The black cube was cool. The Motorolla DSP was cool. More than one > button on the mouse was cool (three would have been better). "Write Now" > was cool. The paint program was cool. If you saw the inside of WriteNow, you'd probably change your tune.. > The keyboard connector was cheap. The missing key in the "T" bar keys > was cheap. The power button was annoying (in combination, it made it > impossible to emulate a VT220 without using composition keys). > I can't see why developers didn't flock to it. 8-). It was actually one of the most inexpensive UNIX platforms you could buy at the time that didn't really suck or was a System V varient (or was both!) Louis Mamakos From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 05:12:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA09467 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 05:12:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA09458 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 05:12:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA24814; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 23:42:46 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602291312.XAA24814@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Latest 2.1R panic. Hmm. To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 23:42:46 +1030 (CST) Cc: davidg@Root.COM, jmb@freefall.freebsd.org, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <2715.825584514@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Feb 29, 96 10:01:54 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Poul-Henning Kamp stands accused of saying: > > > Is there a general consensus that wasting one extra page for the message > > buffer by default is desired? I know I've overrun it myself on many systems, > > and it's very annoying when it happens. > > If so, I'll make the change to an 8K buffer a standard part of FreeBSD. > > one page is getting to be too little. > > Can we make it a config parameter defaulting to 2 pages ? It'd also be nice if you got a more meaniful panic if it overflowed 8) I had an interrupt handler that was regularly panicking courtesy of overflowing the message buffer; I also hit this with the FATLABEL code verbosely logging activity prior to syslog starting. > Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 05:16:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA09609 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 05:16:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from neon.nwpros.com (neon.nwpros.com [205.229.128.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA09547 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 05:15:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by neon.nwpros.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA00380; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 07:03:32 -0600 Message-Id: <199602291303.HAA00380@neon.nwpros.com> Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? To: bmk@dtr.com Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 07:03:32 -0600 (CST) From: "Gary Clark II" Cc: langfod@dihelix.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602281452.GAA02277@dtr.com> from "bmk@dtr.com" at Feb 28, 96 06:52:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk bmk@dtr.com wrote: > > > > > Just being curious, but why was the SGI port of doom done? > > No complaint on that- it gives me something to do with ours :) > > Doom wasn't ported to SGI. iD uses SGI as theier primary development > platform and ported it to run under DOS. > Hi, One of my users here is working with a group of programmers to do a win95 game (big!) and I belive they will also do a FreeBSD port. My customer is going from Linux to FreeBSD because of me...:) Gary -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | Director of Operations | Good service at gclarkii@Neon.NWPros.COM | Network Pros, Inc. | low rates!! FreeBSD FAQ at ftp.FreeBSD.ORG in ~pub/FreeBSD/docs/freebsd-faq.ascii From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 05:30:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA10161 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 05:30:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.109]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA10155 Thu, 29 Feb 1996 05:30:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dawes@localhost) by rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA29395; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 00:29:53 +1100 From: David Dawes Message-Id: <199602291329.AAA29395@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Subject: Re: xdm running two sessions HOW? To: kaleb@x.org (Kaleb S. KEITHLEY) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 00:29:53 +1100 (EST) Cc: jmb@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602291122.LAA17610@exalt.x.org> from "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" at Feb 29, 96 06:22:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >> i have removed the getty from two consoles. >> >> how can i get xdm to start two sessions? >> >> /etc/ttys: >> ttyv2 "/usr/libexec/getty Pc" cons25 off insecure >> ttyv3 "/usr/libexec/getty Pc" cons25 off insecure >> >> Xservers: >> :0 local /usr/X11R6/bin/X :0 >> :1 local /usr/X11R6/bin/X :1 >> > >I'm pretty sure there's a race condition even though your xdm-error log >shows that two servers did use two different VTs. You probably want to >use the -vt option to force a particular server onto an explicit VT, e.g.: > >:0 local /usr/X11R6/bin/X :0 -vt 3 >:1 local /usr/X11R6/bin/X :1 -vt 4 Yes, there is a race there. There could be a little more to it as well. When I experimented with this a while ago, I found that I needed to run the servers via a script which first switched to a text VT, waited for a few seconds, then started the server. I haven't tried this recently, but just doing the sleep wasn't sufficient. The script I had used the old syscons utility from FreeBSD 1.x (now replaced by kbdcontrol and vidcontrol, neither of which allow you to switch VTs from the command line): #!/bin/sh /usr/local/bin/syscons -t 1 ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 06:05:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by Sysiphos id AA16319 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:00:40 +0100 Message-Id: <199602291400.AA16319@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:00:39 +0100 In-Reply-To: Rashid Karimov "CCD - amazing results :)" (Feb 28, 17:56) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: Rashid Karimov Subject: Re: CCD - amazing results :) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Feb 28, 17:56, Rashid Karimov wrote: } Subject: CCD - amazing results :) } Hi there ppl, } } I'm trying to get "bonnie" installed , BTW what is the official } site for it ? , so I'll report bonnie's results here later Just go to /usr/ports/benchmarks/bonnie and do a "make all install". Or look into the Makefile for distribution sites. It should be on the 2.1R CD: look for distfiles/Bonnie.tar.Z Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~se From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 06:15:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA12289 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 06:15:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from border.com (www.borderware.com [199.71.190.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA12284 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 06:15:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by janus.border.com id <20483-2>; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:22:47 -0500 Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:14:15 -0500 From: Jerry Kendall To: Thomas Gellekum Cc: hm@altona.hamburg.com, mikee@sys8.wfc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xforms maintenance tools (was Re: Tcl/Tk sysinstall) In-Reply-To: <199602291040.LAA06176@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <96Feb29.092247est.20483-2@janus.border.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Thu, 29 Feb 1996, Thomas Gellekum wrote: > > Hellmuth Michaelis wrote: > > > > > > One should use a toolkit which runs under both X and curses. > > > > > All these tools are ONLY available under X/Openwindows on Sun systems.. > > > > Check out ctk which is curses based. Programs run unmodified under X. > > Available for free for any platform supporting plain X and plain curses. > > ports/misc/ctk. Looked in ftp.FreeBSD.org:/FreeBSD/ports/misc... AND ftp.FreeBSD.org:/FreeBSD/packages/All... Can't seem to find it.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any comments or opinions in this message are my own and may or may not reflect the comments or opinions of my present or previous employers. Jerry Kendall Border Network Technologies Inc. System Software Engineer Tel +1-416-368-7157 ext 303 jerry@border.com Fax +1-416-368-7178 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 06:31:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA13159 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 06:31:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc6.ihf.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.90.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA13151 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 06:31:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from thomas@localhost) by ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA06573; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:30:44 +0100 Message-Id: <199602291430.PAA06573@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: xforms maintenance tools (was Re: Tcl/Tk sysinstall) To: jerry@border.com (Jerry Kendall) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:30:43 +0100 (MET) From: "Thomas Gellekum" Cc: thomas@ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de, hm@altona.hamburg.com, mikee@sys8.wfc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <96Feb29.092247est.20483-2@janus.border.com> from "Jerry Kendall" at Feb 29, 96 09:14:15 am Organization: Institut f. Hochfrequenztechnik, RWTH Aachen X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Jerry Kendall wrote: > > > ports/misc/ctk. > > Looked in ftp.FreeBSD.org:/FreeBSD/ports/misc... AND > ftp.FreeBSD.org:/FreeBSD/packages/All... Sorry. I have committed it only last week so it's in current. Look in .../FreeBSD/ports-current/misc. tg From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 06:41:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA13820 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 06:41:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (pechter@shell.monmouth.com [205.164.220.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA13815 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 06:41:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by shell.monmouth.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA20057 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:38:38 -0500 From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Message-Id: <199602291438.JAA20057@shell.monmouth.com> Subject: Re: AOL client software To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD-hackers) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:38:37 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Don't laugh. Terry's right. There's a lot of people who boot dos/windows just to get to their AOL mail account. For a while it was the only private internet mailbox I had since work was very intermittant (the US Army must hire net admins from the US postal service). Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Pechter/Carolyn Pechter | The postmaster always pings twice. Lakewood MicroSystems | 17 Meredith Drive, 908-389-3592 | Tinton Falls, NJ 07724 pechter@shell.monmouth.com | From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 07:32:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA17370 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 07:32:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA17355 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 07:32:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA11404; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:35:09 -0700 Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:35:09 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199602291535.IAA11404@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Peter Dufault Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How to use the sup'd CVS tree? In-Reply-To: <199602291251.HAA11962@hda.com> References: <199602291251.HAA11962@hda.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I have now sup'd the cvs tree and have what looks like the -current > release, and I can do "cvs gets", etc, locally. But I don't > understand the process for working in -current and getting patches > for -stable for local test. The easiest way is to checkout two trees on your local box of the stuff you're working on, one for -current and one for -stable. (There are other ways to do this, but I find this to work the best.) > 0. (Basic assertion I think is correct) There is no "cvs awareness" > in sup, and sup will simply update my sup tree to match what is on freefall. SUP simply makes sure the 'bits' are the same at both ends. Nothing more, nothing less. > 1. How do I "sup" again? I assume most info is kept in the local > working directory, so if all I have is locally checked out modules > I can go ahead and "sup cvs" when I want, and it is only when I > want to commit my changes that I have to be careful. You can 'sup' all day long all the time and it won't matter 'as long as you don't commit your changes locally'. This is a bad thing, since those changes will go over-written as soon as you re-sup. So, the moral of the story is to *never* commit locally. > 2. Do I commit back on freefall and then get my updates in the next > sup? That's pretty much how folks (modulo some stuff Peter's doing) are doing things now. That might change in the near future, but I'll let Peter spear-head that. > 3. How do I do local revision control, in conjunction with question > 1? If I'm doing extensive work can I create a local branch so that > I can keep local changes under revision control without having > "sup" step on me? Nope. If you want to do local revision control, your best bet is to is to use a non-shared (ie; local) CVS tree, and keep it up to date locally. Either that or create a branch tree on freefall and do your commits there away from the world. This still requires that all of your commits be done on freefall. > I don't see how this would play with assertion 0 without creating > branches back on freefall. You've got it. > D. Where is -stable? Is it a branch somewhere in what I got in > "sup cvs"? The branch tag is 'RELENG_2_1_0'. So, to checkout a stable tree you would do: # cvs co -r RELENG_2_1_0 module to update: # cvs update -Pdr RELENG_2_1_0 module [ If you've got sticky tags you don't need the release tag, but I always use it just in case. ] For -current: # cvs co module to update: # cvs update -PdA module [ Again, the -A is un-needed but it clears out any sticky tags and guarantees you've got -current bits ] > 5. Am I on the right track? Yep. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 07:49:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA18501 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 07:49:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from anacreon.sol.net (anacreon.sol.net [206.55.64.116]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA18496 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 07:49:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from solaria.sol.net (solaria.sol.net [206.55.65.75]) by anacreon.sol.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA06110; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:48:51 -0600 Received: from localhost by solaria.sol.net (8.5/8.5) id JAA15162; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:50:01 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602291550.JAA15162@solaria.sol.net> Subject: Re: Cool! An all new ROUTER FLOPPY To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 9:49:59 CST Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602291005.FAA11294@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Feb 29, 96 05:05:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL65] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > ftp://ftp.freebsd.sol.net/pub/router.flp > > > > There are several notable problems with it :-) But it's still very cool > > that you can squeeze the essence of UNIX into just a few hundred gzip'ped > > kilobytes. > > > > If there is any interest I may consider tidying up my build process and > > putting the whole thing up for ftp. > > Now make it work read-only off the boot floppy and write to a second > floppy and we have (pretty much) ROM boot FLASH persistent storage. That would be relatively easy; have /etc/rc mount the second disk on /floppy and make most of /etc be links to /floppy/fileXYZ. My "intended" purpose was to provide specifically preconfigured floppies. However I can't really do anything "useful" with this as it sits because it requires too much memory. To make my life easy I just took everything I thought I would need - which includes init sh stty getty login uname hostname -sh ls cat chmod chown rm mv cp echo pwd kill reboot test sed date halt ps vmstat pppstats slstat dev_mkdb ping traceroute inetd telnetd cron ipfw startslip arp pppd ppp routed sliplogin rwhod sysctl tcpdump mrouted ifconfig route slattach I was of course sleeping when I included ps and vmstat... no /kernel. Duh. I haven't tried many of the others yet (I was tired!) The problem is that I used crunch to ram these all together into a single executable. That has the virtue of being very space efficient (about 65% of a 1000K MFS) but the disadvantage of a very large memory profile. I am thinking about looking into making everything separate and installing minimalist shared libraries.. it COULD be possible.. It would be really cool if we really COULD boot from some type of flash. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 07:50:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA18637 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 07:50:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA18629 Thu, 29 Feb 1996 07:50:09 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602291550.HAA18629@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Peter Dufault cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How to use the sup'd CVS tree? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 29 Feb 1996 07:51:47 EST." <199602291251.HAA11962@hda.com> Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 07:50:07 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I have now sup'd the cvs tree and have what looks like the -current >release, and I can do "cvs gets", etc, locally. But I don't >understand the process for working in -current and getting patches >for -stable for local test. > >0. (Basic assertion I think is correct) There is no "cvs awareness" >in sup, and sup will simply update my sup tree to match what is on >freefall. Correct. >1. How do I "sup" again? I assume most info is kept in the local >working directory, so if all I have is locally checked out modules >I can go ahead and "sup cvs" when I want, and it is only when I >want to commit my changes that I have to be careful. Basically. I just pull diffs over to Freefall, commit them, re-sup my CVS tree (eventually), and let my next cvs update handle the merge. You won't get any conflicts unless you happen to change the files in some overlap region between the time of your commit, and your next sup/cvs update. >2. Do I commit back on freefall and then get my updates in the next >sup? To the CVS tree, yes. You can leave your checked out area alone and the next cvs update you do will work fine since the changes in your tree are exatly the same as what you committed to Freefall. >3. How do I do local revision control, in conjunction with question >1? If I'm doing extensive work can I create a local branch so that >I can keep local changes under revision control without having >"sup" step on me? I don't see how this would play with assertion 0 >without creating branches back on freefall. If you want, you can commit to your local CVS tree during development, but all of that state will be lost by your next SUP. I think Peter uses RCS in conjunction with CVS. >D. Where is -stable? Is it a branch somewhere in what I got in >"sup cvs"? cvs co -r RELENG_2_1_0 src >5. Am I on the right track? Yes. >I looked around on freefall and don't see these questions answered. Now that we're offering the CVS tree, I guess we need a FAQ for it. > >-- >Peter Dufault Real-Time Machine Control and Simulation >HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 >dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 07:53:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA18822 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 07:53:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA18809 Thu, 29 Feb 1996 07:53:14 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199602291553.HAA18809@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: xdm running two sessions HOW? To: dawes@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (David Dawes) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 07:53:13 -0800 (PST) Cc: kaleb@x.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602291329.AAA29395@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> from "David Dawes" at Mar 1, 96 00:29:53 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk David Dawes wrote: > Kaleb Keithley (sp?) wrote: > >I'm pretty sure there's a race condition even though your xdm-error log > >shows that two servers did use two different VTs. You probably want to > >use the -vt option to force a particular server onto an explicit VT, e.g.: > > > >:0 local /usr/X11R6/bin/X :0 -vt 3 > >:1 local /usr/X11R6/bin/X :1 -vt 4 i will try this tonight. maybe sooner ;) > Yes, there is a race there. There could be a little more to it as well. > When I experimented with this a while ago, I found that I needed to run > the servers via a script which first switched to a text VT, waited for > a few seconds, then started the server. I haven't tried this recently, > but just doing the sleep wasn't sufficient. > > The script I had used the old syscons utility from FreeBSD 1.x (now > replaced by kbdcontrol and vidcontrol, neither of which allow you to > switch VTs from the command line): > > #!/bin/sh > /usr/local/bin/syscons -t 1 sleep 3 > exec X "$@" i dont have a syscons executalbe! where do i find one? saw this technique in the mail archives. you had mentioned it to me once before ;) > I'm not sure exactly why this is necessary. It may be possible to modify > the servers so as to avoid the need for this VT switch. If anyone has > any ideas/suggestions about this, let me know. > > David > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 08:04:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA19373 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:04:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA19358 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:04:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0tsApq-0003viC; Thu, 29 Feb 96 08:04 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA03451; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 17:04:01 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Bill/Carolyn Pechter cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD-hackers) Subject: Re: AOL client software In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:38:37 EST." <199602291438.JAA20057@shell.monmouth.com> Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 17:03:55 +0100 Message-ID: <3449.825609835@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Don't laugh. Terry's right. > > There's a lot of people who boot dos/windows just to get to their AOL mail > account. For a while it was the only private internet mailbox I had since > work was very intermittant (the US Army must hire net admins from the > US postal service). Well, if the market is there, who's going to debug their protocol ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 08:10:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA19677 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:10:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA19671 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:10:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by agora.rdrop.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0tsAvG-000AniC; Thu, 29 Feb 96 08:09 PST Message-Id: From: batie@agora.rdrop.com (Alan Batie) Subject: Re: router floppy To: jgreco@solaria.sol.net Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:09:42 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > From: Joe Greco > Subject: Cool! An all new ROUTER FLOPPY > To: hackers@freebsd.org > Date: Wed, 28 Feb 96 23:46:05 CST > > I spent some time messing around tonite and wound up being able to build a > nifty one-diskette "router floppy". > > It is just a proof of concept, probably won't work in < 8MB RAM, etc., but > if anyone wants to look at it, it's at http://www.rdrop.com/freertr/ isn't just a proof of concept: it's been in use for about 2 years, does run in 4 Meg (it's based on 1.1), and if I do say so myself, has a nice little configuration utility :-) The one problem it has is that if you have more than one SLIP connection drop, and they come back up in a different order, the routing tables don't get updated and packets start going out the wrong interfaces. As that's infrequent, it hasn't been a high priority to upgrade it to the 2.1 kernel (which has a workaround for that problem), although it's been discussed recently. -- Alan Batie ______ Freedom for me to be and do batie@agora.rdrop.com \ / only what *you* approve of +1 503 452-0960 \ / is no freedom at all. DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A 27 \/ 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 It is my policy to avoid purchase of any products from companies which use unrequested email advertisements or telephone solicitation. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 08:27:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA20514 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:27:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net (dns2.noc.best.net [206.86.0.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA20507 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:27:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from geli.clusternet (rcarter.vip.best.com [204.156.137.2]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA17011 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:26:10 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by geli.clusternet (8.6.12/8.6.9) id IAA00861 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:27:42 -0800 Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:27:42 -0800 From: "Russell L. Carter" Message-Id: <199602291627.IAA00861@geli.clusternet> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 100-baseT hub recommendation? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I've used TrendNET 100BASE-TX hubs and Bay Networks 28115 switch without problems. Grand Junction (3Com now?) hubs are known to work, but Asante hubs had a cooling problem initially, might be fixed now. Russell From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 08:33:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA20863 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:33:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail11.digital.com (mail11.digital.com [192.208.46.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA20854 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:33:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from muggsy.lkg.dec.com by mail11.digital.com (5.65v3.2/1.0/WV) id AA20918; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:23:28 -0500 Received: from whydos.lkg.dec.com by muggsy.lkg.dec.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) with SMTP id AA00475; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:23:24 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by whydos.lkg.dec.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA02228; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 16:23:48 GMT Message-Id: <199602291623.QAA02228@whydos.lkg.dec.com> X-Authentication-Warning: whydos.lkg.dec.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FDDI support: Where are we? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 23:51:00 +0700." X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5omega 10/6/94 Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 16:23:46 +0000 From: Matt Thomas Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Will someone send me (Email is fine) a snapshot report on the availability > of FDDI cards (PCI or otherwise) that have FreeBSD drivers or that have > drivers in the works? There are only two supported (that I know of): DEC DEFPA PCI DEC DEFEA EISA > A major ISP I am doing some contract work with wanted to know and I > haven't been keeping up with that area since I couldn't afford or use this > stuff. Matt Thomas Internet: matt@3am-software.com 3am Software Foundry WWW URL: http://www.3am-software.com/bio/matt.html Westford, MA Disclaimer: I disavow all knowledge of this message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 08:52:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA22159 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:52:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA21868 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 08:49:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA04635; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:47:55 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602291647.KAA04635@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: 100-baseT hub recommendation? To: jc@irbs.com (John Capo) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:47:54 -0600 (CST) Cc: angio@aros.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602291303.IAA07927@goombay.irbs.com> from "John Capo" at Feb 29, 96 08:03:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Dave Andersen writes: > > > > On a related note, we've been purchasing SMC Etherpower 10/100's for our > > new FreeBSD boxes in preparation for upgrading a hub to 100baseT, but my > > counterpart here feels much more inclined towards using the Intel > > 100baseT cards. I noticed they've slipped in to -stable recently, but > > I'd love to hear from someone about how they're working in a production > > environment? > > > > I put one in a clients web server a few weeks ago and its doing fine. > Not a real busy server, about .5Gig/day. I put one in a clients news server a few weeks ago and its doing fine. Rather busy system, 100-150 nnrp clients, multiple full Usenet feeds.. have not seen any problems. ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 09:35:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA24774 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:35:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA24741 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:34:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA11717; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:23:31 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602291723.KAA11717@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? To: coredump@nervosa.com (invalid opcode) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:23:30 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, jehamby@lightside.com, root@dihelix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "invalid opcode" at Feb 29, 96 00:28:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > America On Line. > > > > We need AOL client software. > > Terry Lambert > > I would say less than .5% of AOL users are running any kind of unix. Would you say that this statistic is the result of there being no UNIX client software whatsoever (I'd personally say 0% 8-)), or would you say that UNIX users don't use AOL? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 09:39:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA25039 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:39:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA25034 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:39:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com ([13.231.132.20]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14806(4)>; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:38:53 PST Received: from gnu.mc.xerox.com (gnu.sdsp.mc.xerox.com) by gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09649; Thu, 29 Feb 96 12:38:50 EST Received: by gnu.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12403; Thu, 29 Feb 96 12:38:49 EST Message-Id: <9602291738.AA12403@gnu.mc.xerox.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: Lyndon Nerenberg VE7TCP Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: tcpdump changes In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:46:08 PST." <199602290146.RAA05053@multivac.orthanc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:38:43 PST From: "Marty Leisner" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I'm thinking of making a change to tcpdump and would like > to solicit comments ... > > The '-x' option prints a hex dump of packet contents (modulo capture > length). I would like to modify it to also include an ASCII > representation of the same data. (Makes it easier to trace things like > SMTP protocol sessions.) The ASCII representation would be printed in > a second column to the right of the existing hex dump (with the hex > output suitably shifted to the left to make space). For display > purposes anything failing isprint() would print as a '.'. (Can anyone > think of a rational for supporting locale's in this context?) > I've already done something like this (and a lot of decoding on smb/netbeui packets) :leisner@gnu; ./tcpdump -x -s 1500 port 139 tcpdump: listening on le0 12:36:19.700433 sdsp_nts1.1105 > gnu.netbios-ssn: S 497680297:497680297(0) win 8192 (DF) [000D:000H] 45 00 00 2c 53 05 40 00 20 06 e1 07 0d e7 85 97 E..,S.@. ....... [016D:010H] 0d e7 85 5a 04 51 00 8b 1d a9 ff a9 00 00 00 00 ...Z.Q.......... [032D:020H] 60 02 20 00 2f 38 00 00 02 04 05 b4 b4 b4 `. ./8........ 12:36:19.701125 sdsp_nts1.1105 > gnu.netbios-ssn: . ack 1548800001 win 8760 (DF) [000D:000H] 45 00 00 28 54 05 40 00 20 06 e0 0b 0d e7 85 97 E..(T.@. ....... [016D:010H] 0d e7 85 5a 04 51 00 8b 1d a9 ff aa 5c 50 d0 01 ...Z.Q......\P.. [032D:020H] 50 10 22 38 18 5b 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 P."8.[........ 12:36:19.701273 sdsp_nts1.1105 > gnu.netbios-ssn: P 0:72(72) ack 1 win 8760 session request Called name : GNU Calling name : SDSP_NTS1 (DF) [000D:000H] 45 00 00 70 55 05 40 00 20 06 de c3 0d e7 85 97 E..pU.@. ....... [016D:010H] 0d e7 85 5a 04 51 00 8b 1d a9 ff aa 5c 50 d0 01 ...Z.Q......\P.. [032D:020H] 50 18 22 38 e5 41 00 00 81 00 00 44 20 45 48 45 P."8.A.....D EHE [048D:030H] 4f 46 46 43 41 43 41 43 41 43 41 43 41 43 41 43 OFFCACACACACACAC [064D:040H] 41 43 41 43 41 43 41 43 41 43 41 43 41 00 20 46 ACACACACACACA. F [080D:050H] 44 45 45 46 44 46 41 46 50 45 4f 46 45 46 44 44 DEEFDFAFPEOFEFDD [096D:060H] 42 43 41 43 41 43 41 43 41 43 41 43 41 41 41 00 BCACACACACACAAA. 12:36:20.700395 sdsp_nts1.1105 > gnu.netbios-ssn: P 72:230(158) ack 5 win 8756 session message I found the default -x option very useless for understanding packets... You welcome to my work -- a tcpdump 3.0.4 was just released with cosmetic changes and I'll work on this base perhaps (there were all sorts of versions floating around for linux support). -- marty leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com Member of the League for Programming Freedom From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 09:56:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA25840 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:56:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA25834 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:56:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA03182; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:56:07 -0800 (PST) To: Dave Andersen cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 100-baseT hub recommendation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 29 Feb 1996 02:15:41 MST." <199602290915.CAA19896@terra.aros.net> Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:56:07 -0800 Message-ID: <3180.825616567@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > On a related note, we've been purchasing SMC Etherpower 10/100's for our > new FreeBSD boxes in preparation for upgrading a hub to 100baseT, but my Erm. I think I'd really stick to the SMCs. Even if the Intel cards work 100% out of the box, there's the slight matter of driver testing. The de0 driver has been tested to death, the Intel one not (it's new, whaddaya expect?) Oh, and as to hubs, the Grand Junction product (now part of Cisco) seems to work just fine for us. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 09:59:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA25908 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:59:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA25903 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:59:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA03193; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:57:31 -0800 (PST) To: gjennejohn@frt.dec.com cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:55:49 +0100." <9602291055.AA15299@cssmuc.frt.dec.com> Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:57:31 -0800 Message-ID: <3191.825616651@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Or do I detect a hint of penis-envy in all this outrage ? ;-) (will I get > nailed by the Feds for that ?) It's OK to say "Linux-envy" - it means the same thing and it's not covered by the CDA regulations yet.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 10:03:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA26274 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:03:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA26266 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:03:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA11831; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:56:02 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602291756.KAA11831@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: AOL client software To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:56:02 -0700 (MST) Cc: pechter@shell.monmouth.com, FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3449.825609835@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Feb 29, 96 05:03:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Don't laugh. Terry's right. > > > > There's a lot of people who boot dos/windows just to get to their AOL mail > > account. For a while it was the only private internet mailbox I had since > > work was very intermittant (the US Army must hire net admins from the > > US postal service). > > Well, if the market is there, who's going to debug their protocol ? Someone needs to offer them to do a UNIX port, with the provision that AOL provides their source code for the port, and the resulting distributed version are binary-only (per their ubiquitous floppies). AOL might even hire you to do the job for them. They *must* be feeling pressure from the Compuserve client that works over the Internet, NetScape, and products like "PointCast". Plus half their business runs on a UNIX/Cisco backbone (they own a lot of providers, and that number is increasing). You wouldn't have to doc the protocol unless you wanted to do a server, and AOL is probably not interested in helping something like that. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 10:06:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA26573 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:06:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA26568 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:06:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0tsCjk-0009ZCC; Thu, 29 Feb 96 10:05 PST Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:05:55 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: Terry Lambert cc: invalid opcode , terry@lambert.org, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, root@dihelix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-Reply-To: <199602291723.KAA11717@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Thu, 29 Feb 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > America On Line. > > > > > > We need AOL client software. > > > Terry Lambert > > > > I would say less than .5% of AOL users are running any kind of unix. > > Would you say that this statistic is the result of there being no UNIX > client software whatsoever (I'd personally say 0% 8-)), or would you > say that UNIX users don't use AOL? Personally, I'd like to see a CompuServe front-end (BSDCIM?) for FreeBSD. IMHO, CompuServe is the one service provider which still has CONTENT rather than just positioning themselves as a "gateway to the Internet." Interestingly, both AOL and CompuServe are fully accessible through TCP/IP so you can access them both through your existing Internet provider (again, this makes AOL a bit redundant, eh?) But it's not important, since the only reason I rejoined CompuServe was for the WinNT 4.0 beta forum, and so I end up accessing it from Windows NT.. Oddly enough, Microsoft continues to support their products best on CompuServe, not MSN.. :-) ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 10:10:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA26892 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:10:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.digital.com (mail1.digital.com [204.123.2.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA26843 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:09:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com by mail1.digital.com (5.65 EXP 4/12/95 for V3.2/1.0/WV) id AA28985; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:02:58 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA03207; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:01:31 -0800 (PST) To: gjennejohn@frt.dec.com Cc: hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com, willows%throck.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:30:44 +0100." <9602291230.AA00579@cssmuc.frt.dec.com> Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:01:31 -0800 Message-Id: <3205.825616891@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > It would be nice if more people would try out the native willows (hint, > hint). It's kind of tough trying to do it all by myself. Darn, I really > *do* have to make the latest version of ExecFreeBSD.c available ! I gave up after you guys couldn't even identify which patches were which. I'm *still* waiting to find out if I was running the native or emulated version! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 10:26:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA27927 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:26:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA27922 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:26:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA11890; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:18:54 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602291818.LAA11890@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: How to use the sup'd CVS tree? To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:18:54 -0700 (MST) Cc: dufault@hda.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602291535.IAA11404@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Feb 29, 96 08:35:09 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > I have now sup'd the cvs tree and have what looks like the -current > > release, and I can do "cvs gets", etc, locally. But I don't > > understand the process for working in -current and getting patches > > for -stable for local test. > > The easiest way is to checkout two trees on your local box of the stuff > you're working on, one for -current and one for -stable. (There are > other ways to do this, but I find this to work the best.) Yes. This is what you must do (I am locally running out of space because I have multiple irons in the fire, all of which have not been committed back to the core tree by people with commit privs; this is probably atypical [the multiple irons in the fire part]). > > 0. (Basic assertion I think is correct) There is no "cvs awareness" > > in sup, and sup will simply update my sup tree to match what is on freefall. > > SUP simply makes sure the 'bits' are the same at both ends. Nothing > more, nothing less. This is right. It is one of the most annoying attributes of the SUP/CVS setup. Really, you want the changes to come in as commit deltas and then recommit them to your local CVS tree so you can locally use things like vendor branches and revision tags. CTM doesn't buy you this either. > > 1. How do I "sup" again? I assume most info is kept in the local > > working directory, so if all I have is locally checked out modules > > I can go ahead and "sup cvs" when I want, and it is only when I > > want to commit my changes that I have to be careful. > > You can 'sup' all day long all the time and it won't matter 'as long as > you don't commit your changes locally'. This is a bad thing, since > those changes will go over-written as soon as you re-sup. So, the moral > of the story is to *never* commit locally. Typically, you only want to sup as frequently as the SUP server is updated divided by two so that you always get referentially valid bits. Since that's twice a day, the *most* frequently you want to SUP is once a day, and that's really only justufuable if you are actively developing. If you vary which SUP server you use, you must take into account propagation delay between main and leaf nodes. I believe all the SUP mirrors are sup'ing from the master server directly. If they are updating once a day, then you want to update no more frequently than once every two days if you are sup'ing from a DNS rotor list. Typically, the master server wants to update one time a day, and the slave servers want to update twice a day to allow a rotorred client to not smash bits by backing stuff out on a once-a-day SUP. Think of it as timing windows on protocols. You never want to get a SUP server that isn't *at least* as up-to-date as the SUP server you got previously. > > 2. Do I commit back on freefall and then get my updates in the next > > sup? > > That's pretty much how folks (modulo some stuff Peter's doing) are doing > things now. That might change in the near future, but I'll let Peter > spear-head that. This assumes you have commit priveleges. If you don't, you need to submit your patches. If they confict with things like the Lite2 integration (which has apparently not been done yet) or major work in another area, or if they take a long time to review because of their subtlety or complexity, it may take you a long time to get tehm committed. For instance, some of my FS patches have been waiting 8 months for the Lite2 integration. Don't get discouraged. The wheels move slow, but they do move. > > 3. How do I do local revision control, in conjunction with question > > 1? If I'm doing extensive work can I create a local branch so that > > I can keep local changes under revision control without having > > "sup" step on me? > > Nope. If you want to do local revision control, your best bet is to is > to use a non-shared (ie; local) CVS tree, and keep it up to date > locally. Either that or create a branch tree on freefall and do your > commits there away from the world. This still requires that all of your > commits be done on freefall. The easiest way is to tag a branch on a local tree snapshot and not update the tree. The diffs from the mainline source base are always available, and then can be applied to an untagged tree as patches. You can use the revisions tags in the file and a "cvs update" to detect and resolve conflicts. Be sure to either remove patches that are accepted from your local tree, or to check them in on the unbranched tree so that they are not reversed (this is important! I did this with the CD9660 FS!). > > I don't see how this would play with assertion 0 without creating > > branches back on freefall. > > You've got it. Or by submitting to a committer. > [ Again, the -A is un-needed but it clears out any sticky tags and > guarantees you've got -current bits ] Note: if you have played with things like the SMP patches, you will definitely need the -A to clear out the 28Oct94 sticky tag (for instance) that resulted from the CVS checkout for your playing. > > 5. Am I on the right track? > > Yep. Yes. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 10:36:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA28688 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:36:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA28683 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:36:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA12125; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:37:53 -0700 Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:37:53 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199602291837.LAA12125@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), dufault@hda.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to use the sup'd CVS tree? In-Reply-To: <199602291818.LAA11890@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199602291535.IAA11404@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199602291818.LAA11890@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk [ Developing in both -current and stable ] > > The easiest way is to checkout two trees on your local box.. > Yes. This is what you must do (I am locally running out of space > because I have multiple irons in the fire, all of which have not > been committed back to the core tree by people with commit privs; > this is probably atypical [the multiple irons in the fire part]). Having multiple irons in the fire is *very* typical of everyone. :) > > > 0. (Basic assertion I think is correct) There is no "cvs awareness" > > > in sup, and sup will simply update my sup tree to match what is on freefall. > > > > SUP simply makes sure the 'bits' are the same at both ends. Nothing > > more, nothing less. > > This is right. It is one of the most annoying attributes of the SUP/CVS > setup. Really, you want the changes to come in as commit deltas and > then recommit them to your local CVS tree so you can locally use things > like vendor branches and revision tags. CTM doesn't buy you this either. This is a *hard* problem to solve. We're taking the easy way out since no-one has stepped up to solve the hard problem. (Something like P3 may be a solution, but my tolerance for setting aside enough free time for experimeting with such things is rapidly approaching zero). > Typically, you only want to sup as frequently as the SUP server is > updated divided by two so that you always get referentially valid bits. > > Since that's twice a day, the *most* frequently you want to SUP is > once a day, and that's really only justufuable if you are actively > developing. Actual, the CVS bits are updated *all* the time, and unless they've changed things everytime you connect it scans the local and remote trees to determine which bits need to be sent. This is different from the non-CVS trees which are scanned at regular intervals to same time. It *might* be a good idea to run supscan on the CVS tree if freefall is getting *lots* of CVS sup traffic. > > > 2. Do I commit back on freefall and then get my updates in the next > > > sup? > > > > That's pretty much how folks (modulo some stuff Peter's doing) are doing > > things now. That might change in the near future, but I'll let Peter > > spear-head that. > > This assumes you have commit priveleges. If you don't, you need > to submit your patches. If they confict with things like the Lite2 > integration (which has apparently not been done yet) or major work > in another area, or if they take a long time to review because of > their subtlety or complexity, it may take you a long time to get > tehm committed. For instance, some of my FS patches have been > waiting 8 months for the Lite2 integration. A little frustration showing here Terry? *grin* > Don't get discouraged. The wheels move slow, but they do move. Boy do they *ever* move slowly. > > Nope. If you want to do local revision control, your best bet is to is > > to use a non-shared (ie; local) CVS tree, and keep it up to date > > locally. Either that or create a branch tree on freefall and do your > > commits there away from the world. This still requires that all of your > > commits be done on freefall. > > The easiest way is to tag a branch on a local tree snapshot and not update > the tree. That's what I said. :) > The diffs from the mainline source base are always available, > and then can be applied to an untagged tree as patches. You can use > the revisions tags in the file and a "cvs update" to detect and resolve > conflicts. However, the difficulties with this is that your patches are sometimes difficult to apply if the sources in your non-updated local tree are changed in the master tree. This is where an integrated CVS/sup protocol would be a 'good thing', but is also *really* hard to do. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 10:57:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA29861 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:57:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from sumter.awod.com (awod.com [198.81.225.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA29853 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:57:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from Ken (tsunami.awod.com [198.81.225.31]) by sumter.awod.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA14342 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:57:23 -0500 Message-Id: <1.5.4b11.32.19960229185927.006cd2bc@awod.com> X-Sender: klam@awod.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4b11 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:59:27 -0500 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Ken Lam Subject: Re: 100-baseT hub recommendation? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk At 08:27 AM 2/29/96 -0800, rcarter@geli.com wrote: > >I've used TrendNET 100BASE-TX hubs and Bay Networks 28115 switch >without problems. Grand Junction (3Com now?) hubs are known to >work, but Asante hubs had a cooling problem initially, might be >fixed now. Yes. I just received our Cisco (GJ) Catalyst 2800 with 8 port 100BT. Works like a charm. But of course, it is a switch not a hub. -Ken From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 11:05:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA00509 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:05:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from chaph.usc.edu ([128.125.253.133]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA00504 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:05:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from nunki.usc.edu (dahanaya@nunki.usc.edu [128.125.253.160]) by chaph.usc.edu (8.7.2/8.7.2/usc) with ESMTP id LAA20302 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:05:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dahanaya@localhost) by nunki.usc.edu (8.7.2/8.7.2/usc) id LAA21171 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:05:19 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:05:19 -0800 (PST) From: Diyamanthi Dahanayake Message-Id: <199602291905.LAA21171@nunki.usc.edu> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: help - assembly Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi All, I need to do some coding in assembly under FreeBSD, and need some help, specially the syntax. Appreciate any pointers (to books) or examples illustrating this. DCD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 12:17:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA04290 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 12:17:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA04285 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 12:17:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA23370 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 21:17:33 +0100 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA17229 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 29 Feb 1996 21:17:08 +0100 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA05138 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:41:20 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA01372 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:14:45 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199602291914.UAA01372@yedi.iaf.nl> X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands Subject: Can we get back to the original theme?? To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:14:44 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Howdy! Is it just me or is -hackers degenerating in to a babble forum concerned with A. Windoze chat and how much nicer the world would be if everybody used FreeBSD (agreed BTW ;-) and B. about the latest silly game ported to Linux (I could not care less...) I'd think I'm not the only one that is not overly pleased with 200+ emails a day.. Any chance the volume could be brought down to a sensible level on sensible subjects? PLEASE? Thank you. Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 12:37:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA05630 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 12:37:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from pancake.remcomp.fr (root@pancake.remcomp.fr [194.51.30.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA05620 Thu, 29 Feb 1996 12:37:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from aida (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aida (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA01446; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 21:31:30 +0100 Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 21:31:30 +0100 (MET) From: didier@aida.org To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: xdoom dies. "Error: could not get stats on key=1685024621" In-Reply-To: <199602290306.TAA13924@freefall.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > switched from 16bpp to 8bpp to try running xdoom for linux today. > anyone seen this problem? > > DOOM System Startup v1.8 > V_Init: allocate screens. > M_LoadDefaults: Load system defaults. > Z_Init: Init zone memory allocation daemon. > W_Init: Init WADfiles. > adding ./doom1.wad > shareware version. > M_Init: Init miscellaneous info. > R_Init: Init DOOM refresh daemon - [...................] > P_Init: Init Playloop state. > I_Init: Setting up machine state. > sndserver: not found > D_CheckNetGame: Checking network game status. > startskill 2 deathmatch: 0 startmap: 1 startepisode: 1 > player 1 of 1 (1 nodes) > S_Init: Setting up sound. > HU_Init: Setting up heads up display. > ST_Init: Init status bar. > Using MITSHM extension > Error: could not get stats on key=1685024621 > > Aspen:[109] uname -a > FreeBSD Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM 2.1-STABLE FreeBSD 2.1-STABLE #3: Sun Feb 25 06:56:30 EST 1996 jmb@Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM:/usr/src/sys/compile/ASPEN i386 > > -- > Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG > FreeBSD--4.4BSD Unix for PC clones, source included. http://www.freebsd.org/ > I had the same problem. after having destroyed the shared memory with ipcrm the problem disappeared -- Didier Derny | Microsoft Free Computer. | 486DX4-120 AL3 chipset didier@aida.org | Private FreeBSD 2.1-STABLE site. | aha2940 / 1Gb HAWK From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 13:02:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA07864 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:02:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from anacreon.sol.net ([206.55.64.116]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA07858 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:02:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from solaria.sol.net (solaria.sol.net [206.55.65.75]) by anacreon.sol.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA07502; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:02:11 -0600 Received: from localhost by solaria.sol.net (8.5/8.5) id PAA17862; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:03:20 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602292103.PAA17862@solaria.sol.net> Subject: Re: router floppy To: batie@agora.rdrop.com (Alan Batie) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 15:03:18 CST Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Alan Batie" at Feb 29, 96 08:09:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL65] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > From: Joe Greco > > Subject: Cool! An all new ROUTER FLOPPY > > To: hackers@freebsd.org > > Date: Wed, 28 Feb 96 23:46:05 CST > > > > I spent some time messing around tonite and wound up being able to build a > > nifty one-diskette "router floppy". > > > > It is just a proof of concept, probably won't work in < 8MB RAM, etc., but > > if anyone wants to look at it, it's at > > http://www.rdrop.com/freertr/ isn't just a proof of concept: it's been > in use for about 2 years, does run in 4 Meg (it's based on 1.1), and if > I do say so myself, has a nice little configuration utility :-) > > The one problem it has is that if you have more than one SLIP connection > drop, and they come back up in a different order, the routing tables > don't get updated and packets start going out the wrong interfaces. As > that's infrequent, it hasn't been a high priority to upgrade it to the > 2.1 kernel (which has a workaround for that problem), although it's been > discussed recently. Hello Alan, Yes, I am aware of your project. However, I have somewhat more ambitious goals, and want some of the available features of 2.*... It's nice to have "boot -c" to help quantify device parameter needs. It's nice to have ipfw. I'd like to have a solution that is able to run inetd and telnetd. I'd like it to be read-only (i.e. preconfigured, to restore all you do is hit reset). My setup probably isn't real useful at this point in the game. I'm up against several problems, including the RAM problem, etc. I was just totally amazed that it was even possible to do it. If you are interested in seeing what I've done, please feel free to do so. It is by no means complete or finished.. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 13:06:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA08152 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:06:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from iaehv.IAEhv.nl (root@[192.87.208.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA08114 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:06:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by iaehv.IAEhv.nl (8.6.13/1.63) id WAA29484; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 22:05:21 +0100 X-Disclaimer: iaehv.nl is a public access UNIX system and cannot be held responsible for the opinions of its individual users. Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nietzsche.bowtie.nl (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA16812; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 21:48:59 +0100 Message-Id: <199602292048.VAA16812@nietzsche.bowtie.nl> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.1 5/23/95 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Jerry Kendall , Peter Dufault , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xforms maintenance tools (was Re: Tcl/Tk sysinstall) In-reply-to: jkh's message of Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:42:18 -0800. <12876.825446538@time.cdrom.com> Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 21:48:59 +0100 From: Marc van Kempen Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > I have been working on a diskmaint utility to 'fdisk/disklabel' a newly > > added drive to FreeBSD. I tried with 'dialog' and found it to be seriously > > 'limiting'. Gave up on 'dialog'. Then tried to use 'Tcl/Tk' and found that > > to be to cumbersome. > > The new dialog library (in -current) gives you considerably more > flexibility, though I agree that it's still not the best. > > I was talking to jtc the other day and he mentioned that the new > curses has menus and advanced controls - I haven't looked yet, but > THAT sounds very promising! > > > Now I am using the xforms library and the fdesign gui builder... It looks > > great and works very well. Have decided to write some other utilities > > once I have finished the 'diskmaint' utility.. > > I just wish it were available in source form.. :-( > The original forms toolkit is available in source, it is written for sgi's gl-library though. I have been toying with the idea of rewriting it, or at least making it compile with Ygl (a gl clone for X). It also has the sources to fdesign. The license states that it is free for non-commercial use. Maybe we could get some people together to rewrite this stuff? Regards, Marc. ---------------------------------------------------- Marc van Kempen BowTie Technology Email: marc@bowtie.nl WWW & Databases tel. +31 40 2 43 20 65 fax. +31 40 2 44 21 86 http://www.bowtie.nl ---------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 13:23:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA10298 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:23:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA10260 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:22:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA04347; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:16:33 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), dufault@hda.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to use the sup'd CVS tree? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:18:54 MST." <199602291818.LAA11890@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:16:33 -0800 Message-ID: <4345.825628593@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > This is right. It is one of the most annoying attributes of the SUP/CVS > setup. Really, you want the changes to come in as commit deltas and > then recommit them to your local CVS tree so you can locally use things > like vendor branches and revision tags. CTM doesn't buy you this either. I'm totally serious when I say that I'd be very interested to hear your ideas on this. I'd be the first to say that our current source code control and distrubtion picture could be a lot better and more intuitive than it is, but the old problem of having to make due with the materials available has generally taken precedence over engineering ideals. That's not to say we can't roll our own replacement (or adapt an existing system to our needs), but we should at least be clear on the design parameters of what we'd like, first. The whole CVS vs P3 vs ??? issue will be coming up fairly shortly anyway, trust me. It's not a bad time to be thinking about what we'd _like_ as opposed to what we're forced to settle for. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 13:37:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA11602 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:37:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@[192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA11595 Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:37:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.4/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id NAA26049; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:37:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:37:30 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hasty@rah.star-gate.com, sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-Reply-To: <199602281841.TAA00810@DeepCore.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > We just need the ELF loader, most if not all of the rest is allready > there. > S=F8ren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Cor= e Team From=20what I hear on #linux (what the hell do those kidz know), they are= =20 coming out with an a.out version soon. =3D=3D Chris Layne =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D coredump@nervosa.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump =3D=3D From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 13:42:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA12010 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:42:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@[192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA12004 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:42:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.4/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id NAA26074; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:41:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:41:10 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: Hellmuth Michaelis cc: Nate Williams , jerry@border.com, hm@altona.hamburg.com, mikee@sys8.wfc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xforms maintenance tools (was Re: Tcl/Tk sysinstall) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Thu, 29 Feb 1996, Hellmuth Michaelis wrote: > in both character mode and under X. In case i do local systems management > i'll use the X version, remote i can easily use the character based one. It > saved (not only) us countless thousands of kilometers travelling .... > Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe Of course, there always is that little DISPLAY variable. == Chris Layne ============================================================= == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 13:44:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA12281 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:44:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA12267 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:44:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA12672; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:46:20 -0700 Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:46:20 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199602292146.OAA12672@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: invalid opcode Cc: Hellmuth Michaelis , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xforms maintenance tools (was Re: Tcl/Tk sysinstall) In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk invalid opcode writes: > On Thu, 29 Feb 1996, Hellmuth Michaelis wrote: > > > in both character mode and under X. In case i do local systems management > > i'll use the X version, remote i can easily use the character based one. It > > saved (not only) us countless thousands of kilometers travelling .... > > Of course, there always is that little DISPLAY variable. Which doesn't work either securely or reliably ove rlong distances. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 13:46:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA12439 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:46:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from DeepCore.dk (aalb23.pip.dknet.dk [194.192.0.183]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA12332 Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:44:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sos@localhost) by DeepCore.dk (8.7.4/8.7.3) id WAA01800; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 22:44:35 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199602292144.WAA01800@DeepCore.dk> Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? To: coredump@nervosa.com (invalid opcode) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 22:44:35 +0100 (MET) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "invalid opcode" at Feb 29, 96 01:37:30 pm From: sos@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In reply to invalid opcode who wrote: > > > We just need the ELF loader, most if not all of the rest is allready > > there. > > Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Cor= > e Team > > From what I hear on #linux (what the hell do those kidz know), they are= > coming out with an a.out version soon. That means I don't HAVE to finish the ELF loader :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 13:57:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA13242 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:57:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA13236 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:57:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA12292; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:48:55 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602292148.OAA12292@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: How to use the sup'd CVS tree? To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:48:55 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, nate@sri.MT.net, dufault@hda.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602291837.LAA12125@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Feb 29, 96 11:37:53 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk [ ... ] > > Yes. This is what you must do (I am locally running out of space > > because I have multiple irons in the fire, all of which have not > > been committed back to the core tree by people with commit privs; > > this is probably atypical [the multiple irons in the fire part]). > > Having multiple irons in the fire is *very* typical of everyone. :) Maybe for people with commit privs, who tend to work on BSD to work on BSD. Not for people without commit privs (like me). I suspect that the majority of people without commit provs work on one or two things and don't tend to impact more than 3 or 4 files at a time. > > Typically, you only want to sup as frequently as the SUP server is > > updated divided by two so that you always get referentially valid bits. > > > > Since that's twice a day, the *most* frequently you want to SUP is > > once a day, and that's really only justufuable if you are actively > > developing. > > Actual, the CVS bits are updated *all* the time, and unless they've > changed things everytime you connect it scans the local and remote trees > to determine which bits need to be sent. This is different from the > non-CVS trees which are scanned at regular intervals to same time. It > *might* be a good idea to run supscan on the CVS tree if freefall is > getting *lots* of CVS sup traffic. The problem is the "sup.freebsd.org" DNS alias suggestion to rotor the SUP server actually assigned. If implemented, you have to be careful that going from one SUP server to another doesn't *ever* put you back in time. Remember the "interesting" problems I had? They were the result of going back in time on SUP from sup2 when Jordan requested people get off the main SUP site. > > > > 2. Do I commit back on freefall and then get my updates in the next > > > > sup? > > > > > > That's pretty much how folks (modulo some stuff Peter's doing) are doing > > > things now. That might change in the near future, but I'll let Peter > > > spear-head that. > > > > This assumes you have commit priveleges. If you don't, you need > > to submit your patches. If they confict with things like the Lite2 > > integration (which has apparently not been done yet) or major work > > in another area, or if they take a long time to review because of > > their subtlety or complexity, it may take you a long time to get > > tehm committed. For instance, some of my FS patches have been > > waiting 8 months for the Lite2 integration. > > A little frustration showing here Terry? *grin* No. It's just that people with CVS access and no commit privs who intend to do work need to work slightly differently from people who can checking on freefall and see their patches show up in their next SUP, if they want any kind of history control or source control at all on their local code developement. The only frustration I've had lately is trying to keep my SMP and FS code trees logically seperate, but simultaneously applied to my local kernel (third source tree and local branch tagging on two more trees). > > Don't get discouraged. The wheels move slow, but they do move. > > Boy do they *ever* move slowly. A little frustration showing here Nate? 8-) 8-). > > > Nope. If you want to do local revision control, your best bet is to is > > > to use a non-shared (ie; local) CVS tree, and keep it up to date > > > locally. Either that or create a branch tree on freefall and do your > > > commits there away from the world. This still requires that all of your > > > commits be done on freefall. > > > > The easiest way is to tag a branch on a local tree snapshot and not update > > the tree. > > That's what I said. :) You didn't suggest tagging. 8-). > > The diffs from the mainline source base are always available, > > and then can be applied to an untagged tree as patches. You can use > > the revisions tags in the file and a "cvs update" to detect and resolve > > conflicts. > > However, the difficulties with this is that your patches are sometimes > difficult to apply if the sources in your non-updated local tree are > changed in the master tree. This is where an integrated CVS/sup > protocol would be a 'good thing', but is also *really* hard to do. Right. I have been bit more than once on this because of the latency in SUP on modifications I made locally that conflicted with updates I didn't have yet. This calmed down somewhat when I got the newest version of CVS and I no longer had to sed-hack the sticky tags in for each checkout of the top level tree (I still think the "special" tag "HEAD" needs to set the tags to the most recent rev on the checkout -- that would have solved all of my problems with patch mismatches 6 months ago). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 14:00:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA13615 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:00:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA13602 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:00:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id NAA10325; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:59:17 -0800 Message-Id: <199602292159.NAA10325@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Joe Greco cc: jc@irbs.com (John Capo), angio@aros.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 100-baseT hub recommendation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 29 Feb 1996 10:47:54 CST." <199602291647.KAA04635@brasil.moneng.mei.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:59:17 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >> Dave Andersen writes: >> > >> > On a related note, we've been purchasing SMC Etherpower 10/100's for our >> > new FreeBSD boxes in preparation for upgrading a hub to 100baseT, but my >> > counterpart here feels much more inclined towards using the Intel >> > 100baseT cards. I noticed they've slipped in to -stable recently, but >> > I'd love to hear from someone about how they're working in a production >> > environment? >> > >> >> I put one in a clients web server a few weeks ago and its doing fine. >> Not a real busy server, about .5Gig/day. > >I put one in a clients news server a few weeks ago and its doing fine. >Rather busy system, 100-150 nnrp clients, multiple full Usenet feeds.. >have not seen any problems. The only known problem with the Intel cards is a bug in the NIC that causes it to freeze up if you have garbage on your physical net - like plugging a 10BaseT ethernet card into your 100BaseTX hub. This is supposed to be fixed in the next rev of the chip...and may already be in production. There aren't any known bugs in the driver. Performance is about 5% higher with the Intel card compared to the SMC/DEC. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 14:21:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA14560 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:21:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA14553 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:21:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA12340; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:11:27 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602292211.PAA12340@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: How to use the sup'd CVS tree? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:11:27 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, nate@sri.MT.net, dufault@hda.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4345.825628593@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 29, 96 01:16:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > This is right. It is one of the most annoying attributes of the SUP/CVS > > setup. Really, you want the changes to come in as commit deltas and > > then recommit them to your local CVS tree so you can locally use things > > like vendor branches and revision tags. CTM doesn't buy you this either. > > I'm totally serious when I say that I'd be very interested to hear > your ideas on this. I'd be the first to say that our current source > code control and distrubtion picture could be a lot better and more > intuitive than it is, but the old problem of having to make due with > the materials available has generally taken precedence over > engineering ideals. > > That's not to say we can't roll our own replacement (or adapt an > existing system to our needs), but we should at least be clear on the > design parameters of what we'd like, first. The whole CVS vs P3 vs > ??? issue will be coming up fairly shortly anyway, trust me. It's > not a bad time to be thinking about what we'd _like_ as opposed to > what we're forced to settle for. OK. The biggest thing has got to be the ability to reapply local patches without a checked out tree. This is the inverse of the 1. sup 2. checkout 3. modify 4. sup 5. update 5a. resolve conflicts, if any Process. What needs to be supported is: 1. sup 2. checkout 3. tag 4. modify 5. update using some process other than SUP 6. resolve conflicts if any The difference here is that it would let me locally have a tree with different sets of modifications with the modifcations seperable. Ideally, I want a modification tag, so I can check out a tree, and then say "give me this set of modifications and that set of modifications" and get something buildable. Really -- I want a current tree and a tag that means "current tree plus modification" that gets conflict resolved on each update, with each set of modifications resolved on a project-by-project basis. I don't know how unique I am -- I'm doing active developement without commit priviledges. Contrary to Nate's implication, this is not sour grapes; I fully understand the political climate that led to this, even if I don't fully agree with it in all respects (the Lite2 code integration *is* something I agree with). It seems to me that with the SUP/CVS gates open wide, a *lot* of people are going to find themselves in the same situation I'm in, in terms of not being able to turn around tree modifications by having them committed before they need to make more modifications. A modification tag mechanism of some kind would let me seperate out FS patches from SMP patches from NFS locking patches, etc., so that they could be submitted seperately, but so that I could use them in combination locally. For instance, the move to better than low granularity locking in SMP requires both the SMP and the FS patches so that I can push down the reentrancy mutex into each of the system calls instead of leaving in the trap code handling. To make local progress, I must have both, even if the core team only integrates one. I am faced with the choice of an all-or-nothing patch submission because the patches are logically seperable, but the tools won't support it. I've been thinking that a partial soloution is to use a translucent FS so that modified files are in a seperable tree subset. The problem is that I still can't resolve the branch dichotomy in the files to let me seperate the changes into logical units (the vfs_syscalls.c is a particular problem because I am ignoring the interrupt and fault kernel reentry and concentrating on the trap code for now). I'm afraid it really wants a much larger tool than CVS. 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 14:21:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA14587 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:21:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.digital.com (mail1.digital.com [204.123.2.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA14580 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:21:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com by mail1.digital.com (5.65 EXP 4/12/95 for V3.2/1.0/WV) id AA05101; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:19:57 -0800 Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.4/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id OAA26452; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:17:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:17:50 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Cc: gjennejohn@frt.dec.com, hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-Reply-To: <199602291132.DAA00656@rah.star-gate.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Thu, 29 Feb 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > for sound well there is only one choice a GUS PnP. Terminal Velocity, > Tv, is much better 3d action game than quake shit 8) > Amancio I don't agree. Just the whole concept of Quake, and the fact that it's basically a 3d graphical MUD. You can have huge teams of people, like 20 vs 20 in HUGE levels which are true 3d. Sound has form, gravity has form, so does friction. True raytracing. The ability to program all the monsters and weapons. When this thing is done, it's gonna be insane. == Chris Layne ============================================================= == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 14:31:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA14844 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:31:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@[192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA14833 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:29:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.4/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id OAA26493; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:27:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:27:51 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: Terry Lambert cc: terry@lambert.org, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, jehamby@lightside.com, root@dihelix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-Reply-To: <199602291723.KAA11717@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Would you say that this statistic is the result of there being no UNIX > client software whatsoever (I'd personally say 0% 8-)), or would you > say that UNIX users don't use AOL? > terry@lambert.org I would say both. == Chris Layne ============================================================= == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 14:32:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA14917 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:32:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA14891 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:30:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by agora.rdrop.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0tsGrl-000AoFC; Thu, 29 Feb 96 14:30 PST Message-Id: From: batie@agora.rdrop.com (Alan Batie) Subject: Re: router floppy To: jgreco@solaria.sol.net (Joe Greco) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:30:29 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org, marc@dev.com In-Reply-To: <199602292103.PAA17862@solaria.sol.net> from "Joe Greco" at Feb 29, 96 03:03:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Yes, I am aware of your project. However, I have somewhat more ambitious > goals, and want some of the available features of 2.*... First, I should note that most of the work was done by Marc Frajola (marc@dev.com) and David Greenman. My contribution was the configuration utility. The 2.x stuff is something we've been talking about; in particular, to fix the bug I mentioned, and to use the compressed binaries to get more features onto it. The ones you mention are good ones, and I'd also like to see password protected dialin and expect driven dialout (in order to get through the login sequence on the remote end). Given the size of expect, my thought was to have the init script try to mount a second floppy and enable those features if the right one is there. > I'd like it to be read-only (i.e. preconfigured, to restore all you do is > hit reset). The current one is read-only until you change the configuration; it then strongly encourages you to reboot in order to go back to read-only mode. That may be something that 2.x might also offer --- being able to switch back to read-only mode dynamically. Haven't looked into that, or don't remember doing so... > If you are interested in seeing what I've done, please feel free to do so. > It is by no means complete or finished.. I will do that; it sounds like a good start... -- Alan Batie ______ Freedom for me to be and do batie@agora.rdrop.com \ / only what *you* approve of +1 503 452-0960 \ / is no freedom at all. DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A 27 \/ 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 It is my policy to avoid purchase of any products from companies which use unrequested email advertisements or telephone solicitation. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 14:32:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA14922 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:32:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA14893 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:30:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA04681; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:28:43 -0800 (PST) To: Wilko Bulte cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers list) Subject: Re: Can we get back to the original theme?? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:14:44 +0100." <199602291914.UAA01372@yedi.iaf.nl> Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:28:43 -0800 Message-ID: <4679.825632923@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Is it just me or is -hackers degenerating in to a babble forum concerned > with A. Windoze chat and how much nicer the world would be if everybody > used FreeBSD (agreed BTW ;-) and B. about the latest silly game ported > to Linux (I could not care less...) It's not just you, and it's not just -hackers that has become a continuous, deafening uproar. I'm probably gonna get flamed for this, but it's largely because certain people on these lists (and I wouldn't hesitate too much in singling out Poul or Nate this week) have stopped being careful with their distribution lists and are now posting or participating in threads-from-hell which span multiple mailing lists and aren't even loosely focused on whichever appropriate interest group has already been formed for discussing such things. On a good day, I'm lucky if I get away with reading a given message only once. At the risk of educating the educated, here's our current mailing list roster: freebsd-announce Important events and project milestones freebsd-bugs Bug reports freebsd-chat Non-technical items related to the FreeBSD community freebsd-current Discussion concerning the use of FreeBSD-current freebsd-stable Discussion concerning the use of FreeBSD-stable freebsd-isp Issues for Internet Service Providers using FreeBSD freebsd-policy General policy issues and suggestions freebsd-questions User questions freebsd-doc The FreeBSD Documentation project freebsd-fs Filesystems freebsd-hackers General technical discussion freebsd-hardware General discussion of hardware for running FreeBSD freebsd-multimedia Multimedia discussion freebsd-platforms Concerning ports to non-Intel architecture platforms freebsd-ports Discussion of the ports collection freebsd-security Security issues freebsd-scsi The SCSI subsystem freebsd-admin Administrative issues freebsd-arch Architecture and design discussions freebsd-core FreeBSD core team freebsd-install Installation development freebsd-user-groups User group coordination I'll save you from counting - that's 22 mailing lists one might post to, and certainly room for many different types of discussion. Wanna talk about firewalls or kerberos? freebsd-security is your list. Wanna talk about how icky the installation program is? Send it to freebsd-install. Want to flame Linux in some highly gratuitous fashion? Well, we'd prefer you not, but if you must then freebsd-chat is probably a good place for such senseless expenditures of effort. In other words, at least half the crap you see flowing through -hackers and -current right now does NOT need to be there, nor is it being properly directed at the people who have expressed a genuine interest in the topic at hand by adding themselves to the appropriate mailing list(s). Please folks, recognise that we're reaching one of those crisis points again where we need to start clamping down on our own internal mail traffic before another Great Exodus occurs. I'm a hair away from unsubscribing from -hackers again myself. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 14:36:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA15116 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:36:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA15033 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:33:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA12918; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:36:36 -0700 Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:36:36 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199602292236.PAA12918@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), nate@sri.MT.net, dufault@hda.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to use the sup'd CVS tree? In-Reply-To: <199602292211.PAA12340@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <4345.825628593@time.cdrom.com> <199602292211.PAA12340@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I don't know how unique I am -- I'm doing active developement without > commit priviledges. Contrary to Nate's implication, this is not sour > grapes; I fully understand the political climate that led to this, > even if I don't fully agree with it in all respects (the Lite2 code > integration *is* something I agree with). I'm sorry if you think I think you're upset with this. I also agree that this is something others will be in. And, I think Jordan agrees as well, else we wouldn't be having this conversation. > I'm afraid it really wants a much larger tool than CVS. 8-(. I agree. This is a *hard* problem (I'm repeating myself). Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 14:50:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA15918 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:50:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA15889 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:48:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA12433; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:39:31 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602292239.PAA12433@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: How to use the sup'd CVS tree? To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:39:31 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, nate@sri.MT.net, dufault@hda.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602292236.PAA12918@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Feb 29, 96 03:36:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I'm sorry if you think I think you're upset with this. I also agree > that this is something others will be in. And, I think Jordan agrees as > well, else we wouldn't be having this conversation. I'm sorry your sorry, then, since I think you think I think you think I'm upset with this, since I'm not. If you'll think, you might think that I think that you think I'm upset with this because of the aside in one of your previous postings (the one two previous to this one, I think). Lest others think I'm upset because you seem to think I think that I should be, I think (and I think you'll agree) that the aside didn't mean what a reasonable persom might think it meant. Don't you think? Double-thoughtfully yours, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- PS: I learned this trick from George Orwell's (not his real name) "1984". --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 14:57:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA16436 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:57:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA16430 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:57:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA04836; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:56:12 -0800 Message-Id: <199602292256.OAA04836@rah.star-gate.com> To: invalid opcode cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:17:50 PST." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <4833.825634572.1@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:56:12 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> invalid opcode said: > On Thu, 29 Feb 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > > for sound well there is only one choice a GUS PnP. Terminal Velocity, > > Tv, is much better 3d action game than quake shit 8) > > Amancio > > I don't agree. Just the whole concept of Quake, and the fact that it's > basically a 3d graphical MUD. You can have huge teams of people, like 20 > vs 20 in HUGE levels which are true 3d. Sound has form, gravity has form, > so does friction. True raytracing. The ability to program all the > monsters and weapons. When this thing is done, it's gonna be insane. Yeah, well I still hate quake (I really don't know why ) and anything that I can do to bury it I will. As for scalable networking for doing not just 20 or 30 people I doubt that they have the technology. ID may be the first to come with 3d MUDs however others will for sure. In fact not too long ago I attended a conference where at least one company was selling the network package which will enable 3d mUDS. Infant Death, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 15:00:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA16719 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:00:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA16700 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:00:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA04776; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:59:34 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: nate@sri.MT.net, dufault@hda.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to use the sup'd CVS tree? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:11:27 MST." <199602292211.PAA12340@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:59:34 -0800 Message-ID: <4774.825634774@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I'm afraid it really wants a much larger tool than CVS. 8-(. I think we're all agreed on that! :-) Hmmmmm. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 15:14:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA17899 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:14:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA17882 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:14:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from DeepCore.dk (aalb8.pip.dknet.dk [194.192.0.168]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id OAA04954 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:28:53 -0800 Received: (from sos@localhost) by DeepCore.dk (8.7.4/8.7.3) id WAA01800; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 22:44:35 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199602292144.WAA01800@DeepCore.dk> Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? To: coredump@nervosa.com (invalid opcode) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 22:44:35 +0100 (MET) Cc: sos@freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "invalid opcode" at Feb 29, 96 01:37:30 pm From: sos@freebsd.org Reply-to: sos@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In reply to invalid opcode who wrote: > > > We just need the ELF loader, most if not all of the rest is allready > > there. > > Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Cor= > e Team > > From what I hear on #linux (what the hell do those kidz know), they are= > coming out with an a.out version soon. That means I don't HAVE to finish the ELF loader :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 15:18:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA18163 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:18:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA10260 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:22:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA04347; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:16:33 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), dufault@hda.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to use the sup'd CVS tree? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:18:54 MST." <199602291818.LAA11890@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:16:33 -0800 Message-ID: <4345.825628593@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > This is right. It is one of the most annoying attributes of the SUP/CVS > setup. Really, you want the changes to come in as commit deltas and > then recommit them to your local CVS tree so you can locally use things > like vendor branches and revision tags. CTM doesn't buy you this either. I'm totally serious when I say that I'd be very interested to hear your ideas on this. I'd be the first to say that our current source code control and distrubtion picture could be a lot better and more intuitive than it is, but the old problem of having to make due with the materials available has generally taken precedence over engineering ideals. That's not to say we can't roll our own replacement (or adapt an existing system to our needs), but we should at least be clear on the design parameters of what we'd like, first. The whole CVS vs P3 vs ??? issue will be coming up fairly shortly anyway, trust me. It's not a bad time to be thinking about what we'd _like_ as opposed to what we're forced to settle for. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 15:28:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA19051 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:28:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@[192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA14833 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:29:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.4/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id OAA26493; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:27:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:27:51 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: Terry Lambert cc: terry@lambert.org, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, jehamby@lightside.com, root@dihelix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-Reply-To: <199602291723.KAA11717@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Would you say that this statistic is the result of there being no UNIX > client software whatsoever (I'd personally say 0% 8-)), or would you > say that UNIX users don't use AOL? > terry@lambert.org I would say both. == Chris Layne ============================================================= == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 15:28:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA19066 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:28:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA15033 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:33:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA12918; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:36:36 -0700 Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:36:36 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199602292236.PAA12918@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), nate@sri.MT.net, dufault@hda.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to use the sup'd CVS tree? In-Reply-To: <199602292211.PAA12340@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <4345.825628593@time.cdrom.com> <199602292211.PAA12340@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I don't know how unique I am -- I'm doing active developement without > commit priviledges. Contrary to Nate's implication, this is not sour > grapes; I fully understand the political climate that led to this, > even if I don't fully agree with it in all respects (the Lite2 code > integration *is* something I agree with). I'm sorry if you think I think you're upset with this. I also agree that this is something others will be in. And, I think Jordan agrees as well, else we wouldn't be having this conversation. > I'm afraid it really wants a much larger tool than CVS. 8-(. I agree. This is a *hard* problem (I'm repeating myself). Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 15:28:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA19098 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:28:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA14893 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:30:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA04681; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:28:43 -0800 (PST) To: Wilko Bulte cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers list) Subject: Re: Can we get back to the original theme?? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:14:44 +0100." <199602291914.UAA01372@yedi.iaf.nl> Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:28:43 -0800 Message-ID: <4679.825632923@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is it just me or is -hackers degenerating in to a babble forum concerned > with A. Windoze chat and how much nicer the world would be if everybody > used FreeBSD (agreed BTW ;-) and B. about the latest silly game ported > to Linux (I could not care less...) It's not just you, and it's not just -hackers that has become a continuous, deafening uproar. I'm probably gonna get flamed for this, but it's largely because certain people on these lists (and I wouldn't hesitate too much in singling out Poul or Nate this week) have stopped being careful with their distribution lists and are now posting or participating in threads-from-hell which span multiple mailing lists and aren't even loosely focused on whichever appropriate interest group has already been formed for discussing such things. On a good day, I'm lucky if I get away with reading a given message only once. At the risk of educating the educated, here's our current mailing list roster: freebsd-announce Important events and project milestones freebsd-bugs Bug reports freebsd-chat Non-technical items related to the FreeBSD community freebsd-current Discussion concerning the use of FreeBSD-current freebsd-stable Discussion concerning the use of FreeBSD-stable freebsd-isp Issues for Internet Service Providers using FreeBSD freebsd-policy General policy issues and suggestions freebsd-questions User questions freebsd-doc The FreeBSD Documentation project freebsd-fs Filesystems freebsd-hackers General technical discussion freebsd-hardware General discussion of hardware for running FreeBSD freebsd-multimedia Multimedia discussion freebsd-platforms Concerning ports to non-Intel architecture platforms freebsd-ports Discussion of the ports collection freebsd-security Security issues freebsd-scsi The SCSI subsystem freebsd-admin Administrative issues freebsd-arch Architecture and design discussions freebsd-core FreeBSD core team freebsd-install Installation development freebsd-user-groups User group coordination I'll save you from counting - that's 22 mailing lists one might post to, and certainly room for many different types of discussion. Wanna talk about firewalls or kerberos? freebsd-security is your list. Wanna talk about how icky the installation program is? Send it to freebsd-install. Want to flame Linux in some highly gratuitous fashion? Well, we'd prefer you not, but if you must then freebsd-chat is probably a good place for such senseless expenditures of effort. In other words, at least half the crap you see flowing through -hackers and -current right now does NOT need to be there, nor is it being properly directed at the people who have expressed a genuine interest in the topic at hand by adding themselves to the appropriate mailing list(s). Please folks, recognise that we're reaching one of those crisis points again where we need to start clamping down on our own internal mail traffic before another Great Exodus occurs. I'm a hair away from unsubscribing from -hackers again myself. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 15:45:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA20572 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:45:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA15889 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:48:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA12433; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:39:31 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602292239.PAA12433@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: How to use the sup'd CVS tree? To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:39:31 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, nate@sri.MT.net, dufault@hda.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602292236.PAA12918@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Feb 29, 96 03:36:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I'm sorry if you think I think you're upset with this. I also agree > that this is something others will be in. And, I think Jordan agrees as > well, else we wouldn't be having this conversation. I'm sorry your sorry, then, since I think you think I think you think I'm upset with this, since I'm not. If you'll think, you might think that I think that you think I'm upset with this because of the aside in one of your previous postings (the one two previous to this one, I think). Lest others think I'm upset because you seem to think I think that I should be, I think (and I think you'll agree) that the aside didn't mean what a reasonable persom might think it meant. Don't you think? Double-thoughtfully yours, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- PS: I learned this trick from George Orwell's (not his real name) "1984". --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 15:50:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA20931 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:50:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA10260 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:22:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA04347; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:16:33 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), dufault@hda.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How to use the sup'd CVS tree? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:18:54 MST." <199602291818.LAA11890@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:16:33 -0800 Message-ID: <4345.825628593@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > This is right. It is one of the most annoying attributes of the SUP/CVS > setup. Really, you want the changes to come in as commit deltas and > then recommit them to your local CVS tree so you can locally use things > like vendor branches and revision tags. CTM doesn't buy you this either. I'm totally serious when I say that I'd be very interested to hear your ideas on this. I'd be the first to say that our current source code control and distrubtion picture could be a lot better and more intuitive than it is, but the old problem of having to make due with the materials available has generally taken precedence over engineering ideals. That's not to say we can't roll our own replacement (or adapt an existing system to our needs), but we should at least be clear on the design parameters of what we'd like, first. The whole CVS vs P3 vs ??? issue will be coming up fairly shortly anyway, trust me. It's not a bad time to be thinking about what we'd _like_ as opposed to what we're forced to settle for. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 16:02:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA21860 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 16:02:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (root@[192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA14833 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:29:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by nervosa.com (8.7.4/nervosa.com.2) with SMTP id OAA26493; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:27:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:27:51 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: Terry Lambert cc: terry@lambert.org, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, jehamby@lightside.com, root@dihelix.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-Reply-To: <199602291723.KAA11717@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Would you say that this statistic is the result of there being no UNIX > client software whatsoever (I'd personally say 0% 8-)), or would you > say that UNIX users don't use AOL? > terry@lambert.org I would say both. == Chris Layne ============================================================= == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 16:03:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA21955 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 16:03:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA15033 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:33:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA12918; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:36:36 -0700 Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:36:36 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199602292236.PAA12918@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), nate@sri.MT.net, dufault@hda.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How to use the sup'd CVS tree? In-Reply-To: <199602292211.PAA12340@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <4345.825628593@time.cdrom.com> <199602292211.PAA12340@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I don't know how unique I am -- I'm doing active developement without > commit priviledges. Contrary to Nate's implication, this is not sour > grapes; I fully understand the political climate that led to this, > even if I don't fully agree with it in all respects (the Lite2 code > integration *is* something I agree with). I'm sorry if you think I think you're upset with this. I also agree that this is something others will be in. And, I think Jordan agrees as well, else we wouldn't be having this conversation. > I'm afraid it really wants a much larger tool than CVS. 8-(. I agree. This is a *hard* problem (I'm repeating myself). Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 16:03:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA22014 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 16:03:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA14893 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:30:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA04681; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:28:43 -0800 (PST) To: Wilko Bulte cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers list) Subject: Re: Can we get back to the original theme?? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:14:44 +0100." <199602291914.UAA01372@yedi.iaf.nl> Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:28:43 -0800 Message-ID: <4679.825632923@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Is it just me or is -hackers degenerating in to a babble forum concerned > with A. Windoze chat and how much nicer the world would be if everybody > used FreeBSD (agreed BTW ;-) and B. about the latest silly game ported > to Linux (I could not care less...) It's not just you, and it's not just -hackers that has become a continuous, deafening uproar. I'm probably gonna get flamed for this, but it's largely because certain people on these lists (and I wouldn't hesitate too much in singling out Poul or Nate this week) have stopped being careful with their distribution lists and are now posting or participating in threads-from-hell which span multiple mailing lists and aren't even loosely focused on whichever appropriate interest group has already been formed for discussing such things. On a good day, I'm lucky if I get away with reading a given message only once. At the risk of educating the educated, here's our current mailing list roster: freebsd-announce Important events and project milestones freebsd-bugs Bug reports freebsd-chat Non-technical items related to the FreeBSD community freebsd-current Discussion concerning the use of FreeBSD-current freebsd-stable Discussion concerning the use of FreeBSD-stable freebsd-isp Issues for Internet Service Providers using FreeBSD freebsd-policy General policy issues and suggestions freebsd-questions User questions freebsd-doc The FreeBSD Documentation project freebsd-fs Filesystems freebsd-hackers General technical discussion freebsd-hardware General discussion of hardware for running FreeBSD freebsd-multimedia Multimedia discussion freebsd-platforms Concerning ports to non-Intel architecture platforms freebsd-ports Discussion of the ports collection freebsd-security Security issues freebsd-scsi The SCSI subsystem freebsd-admin Administrative issues freebsd-arch Architecture and design discussions freebsd-core FreeBSD core team freebsd-install Installation development freebsd-user-groups User group coordination I'll save you from counting - that's 22 mailing lists one might post to, and certainly room for many different types of discussion. Wanna talk about firewalls or kerberos? freebsd-security is your list. Wanna talk about how icky the installation program is? Send it to freebsd-install. Want to flame Linux in some highly gratuitous fashion? Well, we'd prefer you not, but if you must then freebsd-chat is probably a good place for such senseless expenditures of effort. In other words, at least half the crap you see flowing through -hackers and -current right now does NOT need to be there, nor is it being properly directed at the people who have expressed a genuine interest in the topic at hand by adding themselves to the appropriate mailing list(s). Please folks, recognise that we're reaching one of those crisis points again where we need to start clamping down on our own internal mail traffic before another Great Exodus occurs. I'm a hair away from unsubscribing from -hackers again myself. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 16:20:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA23323 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 16:20:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA15889 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:48:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA12433; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:39:31 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602292239.PAA12433@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: How to use the sup'd CVS tree? To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:39:31 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, nate@sri.MT.net, dufault@hda.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602292236.PAA12918@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Feb 29, 96 03:36:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I'm sorry if you think I think you're upset with this. I also agree > that this is something others will be in. And, I think Jordan agrees as > well, else we wouldn't be having this conversation. I'm sorry your sorry, then, since I think you think I think you think I'm upset with this, since I'm not. If you'll think, you might think that I think that you think I'm upset with this because of the aside in one of your previous postings (the one two previous to this one, I think). Lest others think I'm upset because you seem to think I think that I should be, I think (and I think you'll agree) that the aside didn't mean what a reasonable persom might think it meant. Don't you think? Double-thoughtfully yours, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- PS: I learned this trick from George Orwell's (not his real name) "1984". --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 17:15:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA27131 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 17:15:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from wdl1.wdl.loral.com ([137.249.32.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA27126 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 17:15:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from miles.sso.loral.com (miles.wdl.loral.com) by wdl1.wdl.loral.com (5.x/WDL-2.4-1.0) id AA03722; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 17:14:31 -0800 Received: by miles.sso.loral.com (4.1/SSO-SUN-2.04) id AA15545; Thu, 29 Feb 96 20:13:29 EST Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:13:28 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Toren X-Sender: rpt@miles To: Lyndon Nerenberg VE7TCP Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: tcpdump changes In-Reply-To: <199602290146.RAA05053@multivac.orthanc.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Lyndon Nerenberg VE7TCP wrote: > I'm thinking of making a change to tcpdump and would like > to solicit comments ... > > The '-x' option prints a hex dump of packet contents (modulo capture > length). I would like to modify it to also include an ASCII > representation of the same data. (Makes it easier to trace things like I did that with the following modification to tcpdump.c. This routine is near the end of the source file. This was 3.0.2 source. I don't have the original handy, but this should be a good start. Then rebuild and the -x will dump hex/ascii. Have fun... default_print(register const u_char *data, register int len) { /* DESCZ Dumps to dbglog file a hex/ascii formatted dump of the passed address for the specified number of bytes. */ char hexbuf[64]; char chrbuf[24]; char *k; int i, j; if (len <= 0) return; printf("\n"); for (i=j=0, k=hexbuf; i< len; i++, j++) { if (j >= 16) { chrbuf[j] = 0x00; printf ("\t\t\t|%-42s|%-16s|\n", hexbuf, chrbuf); j = 0; k = hexbuf; } if (j&1) { sprintf (k, "%02X ", data[i]); chrbuf[j] = isprint (data[i]) ? data[i] : '.'; k = k+3; } else { sprintf (k, "%02X", data[i]); chrbuf[j] = isprint (data[i]) ? data[i] : '.'; k = k+2; } } if (j > 0) { chrbuf[j] = 0x00; printf( "\t\t\t|%-42s|%-16s|\n", hexbuf, chrbuf); j = 0; k = hexbuf; } fflush (stdout); /********** original ***** register const u_short *sp; register u_int i; register int nshorts; if ((int)bp & 1) { default_print_unaligned(bp, length); return; } sp = (u_short *)bp; nshorts = (u_int) length / sizeof(u_short); i = 0; while (--nshorts >= 0) { if ((i++ % 8) == 0) (void)printf("\n\t\t\t"); (void)printf(" %04x", ntohs(*sp++)); } if (length & 1) { if ((i % 8) == 0) (void)printf("\n\t\t\t"); (void)printf(" %02x", *(u_char *)sp); } *********/ } ==================================================== Rip Toren | The bad news is that C++ is not an object-oriented | rpt@miles.sso.loral.com | programming language. .... The good news is that | | C++ supports object-oriented programming. | | C++ Programming & Fundamental Concepts | | by Anderson & Heinze | ==================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 18:17:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA02423 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 18:17:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from cs.rice.edu ([128.42.1.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA02416 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 18:17:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from noel.cs.rice.edu (noel.cs.rice.edu [128.42.1.136]) by cs.rice.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id UAA06145 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:17:28 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by noel.cs.rice.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA18310 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:17:27 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199603010217.UAA18310@noel.cs.rice.edu> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 100-baseT hub recommendation? Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:17:24 -0600 From: Alan Cox Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'm using 10 of the Intel PRO/100B's in 9 machines with the driver from -stable. Two of the interfaces are talking to our departmental 10BaseT network, and 8 are on a private 100BaseT network with the Intel hub. (One machine has 2 interfaces, and routes between the private 100BaseT network and our departmental 10BaseT network.) Overall, I'm pleased with the card and the driver. They seem to work well. One odd thing is that under load we see a fair number of packets dropped due to surpassing "maxcols" on the 100BaseT network. Far more so than I've seen with Sparc 20's on 10BaseT. Alan P.S. The current driver doesn't add "maxcols" into the output errors stat. Shouldn't that be included? From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 18:19:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA02573 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 18:19:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.tribe.com ([205.184.207.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA02563 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 18:19:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.tribe.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA05571; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 18:18:30 -0800 From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199603010218.SAA05571@bubba.tribe.com> Subject: Re: IP filtering strawman, comments please. To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 18:18:30 -5600 (PST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <12238.825366315@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Feb 26, 96 09:25:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk The new packet filtering paradigm sounds great! > And finally, what should be done when the rule matches: > > "drop" the packet is discarded. > "refuse" as drop, but an ICMP packet is sent if applicable. > "pass" the packet is OK and continues it's merry way. > "count" the counters for this rule is updated, but the rule doesn't > match the packet, and the next rule is tried. > "divert" the packet is sent to a (specific) instance of the tun# > interface, where a user-mode process can have fun with it. Howabout: "remap X" Change the (source/dest) network number to X from whatever it was. This would provide very easy network address translation in the case that the two netmask widths are identical. This could be a big feature if people have to start renumbering their networks but aren't ready yet... cf. rfc1900. The more general case (such as remapping an entire network into a single IP address) is slightly harder, since you have to remember what UDP/TCP ports you have mapped to as well, time them out, sniff FTP packets, etc... but it can and has been done... "divert" would be great for security auditing purposes. > Comments ? I'm willing to help. _______________________________________________________________________________ Archie L. Cobbs, archie@tribe.com * Tribe Computer Works http://www.tribe.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 18:48:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA04641 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 18:48:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org ([204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA04634 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 18:48:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA04607; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 19:48:08 -0700 Message-Id: <199603010248.TAA04607@rover.village.org> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: How to use the sup'd CVS tree? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 29 Feb 1996 13:16:33 PST Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 19:48:08 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk : The whole CVS vs P3 vs What's P3? Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 19:18:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA06839 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 19:18:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA06828 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 19:18:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA06200; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 19:16:54 -0800 Message-Id: <199603010316.TAA06200@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: invalid opcode cc: Terry Lambert , jkh@time.cdrom.com, jehamby@lightside.com, root@dihelix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:27:51 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 19:16:53 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >>> invalid opcode said: > > Would you say that this statistic is the result of there being no UNIX > > client software whatsoever (I'd personally say 0% 8-)), or would you > > say that UNIX users don't use AOL? > > terry@lambert.org > > I would say both. Nope I bet is more due to total lack of software if you are unix fan would you like to boot dos to just read news ? I don't think so. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 19:23:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA07419 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 19:23:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA07409 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 19:22:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA06223; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 19:21:24 -0800 Message-Id: <199603010321.TAA06223@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Nate Williams cc: invalid opcode , Hellmuth Michaelis , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: xforms maintenance tools (was Re: Tcl/Tk sysinstall) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:46:20 MST." <199602292146.OAA12672@rocky.sri.MT.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 19:21:24 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Nate Williams said: > invalid opcode writes: > > On Thu, 29 Feb 1996, Hellmuth Michaelis wrote: > > > > > in both character mode and under X. In case i do local systems managemen t > > > i'll use the X version, remote i can easily use the character based one. It > > > saved (not only) us countless thousands of kilometers travelling .... > > > > Of course, there always is that little DISPLAY variable. > > Which doesn't work either securely or reliably ove rlong distances. You may be amazed at what "ssh" can do ! 8) Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 20:54:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA14469 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:54:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from hp.com ([15.255.152.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA14460 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:54:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from fakir.india.hp.com by hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA205566036; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:54:03 -0800 Received: from localhost by fakir.india.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA149776324; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:28:45 +0530 Message-Id: <199603010458.AA149776324@fakir.india.hp.com> To: Diyamanthi Dahanayake Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: help - assembly In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:05:19 PST." <199602291905.LAA21171@nunki.usc.edu> Date: Fri, 01 Mar 1996 10:28:44 +0530 From: A JOSEPH KOSHY Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>> dd = "Diyamanthi Dahanayake" said: dd> I need to do some coding in assembly under FreeBSD, dd> and need some help, specially the syntax. Appreciate I'll assume that you are familiar with the x86 instruction set :). For details on the assembler as such you could look at the GAS info files. (Use the comand `info as'). The man page also gives you some information on this. `AS' allows you to run the assembler source thru the `m4' macro processor before actual assembly. M4 can take effort getting used to, but is extremely powerful. You may want to look at GCC's "inline" and "asm" directives (as documented in `info gcc'); these may allow you to get by writing most of your code in C with machine specific fragments in inline-assembler. You can also invoke the assembler thru GCC by creating the file with a ".S" extension. This allows you to use CPP macros in your assembler file. If you are familiar with assembly language programming under DOS; then Unix assembly programming should be straightforward. The points of difference that I can remember are : 1. Instructions have the format OP SOURCE, DESTINATION # This order is the reverse of the DOS usage. "#" starts a comment which goes till the end of line Multiple instructions in a line are separated using ";". E.g:- movl -4(%ebp), %esi; rep; movsw 2. You have to indicate the size of operands as part of the opcode mnemonic. For example: movl %eax, %ebx # moves 32 bits from eax to ebx movw %ax, %bx # moves 16 bits from ax to bx ... The suffixes are 'l' for 32 bit operands, 'w' for 16 bit operands, 'b' for byte operands. The assembler will cross check that the opcode's implied size and the actual sizes of the operands match. This catches lots of interesting bugs before they can occur. 3. Registers are prefixed with a "%". E.g.:- %eax, %ebx 4. Indirection is indicated by "()". movl (%eax), %ebx # moves 32 bits pointed to by %eax to %ebx 5. Base + index + offset addressing is coded using the following syntax: NN(%r1,%r2,SCALE) # where NN is the offset, and the address # is NN + %r1 + (%r2 * SCALE). SCALE = 1,2,4,8 (%r1) NN(%r1) (%r1,%r2) NN(%r1,%r2) are also valid forms The usual x86 addressing restrictions apply of course. 6. Immediate constants are prefixed with a "$". movl $10, -4(%ebp) # 7. Register usage in functions is as follows : %eax, %ecx, %edx -- no need to save/restore these in your function %eax -- is used to hold the return value for a function. %ebx, %esi, %edi -- should be saved and restored by the called function. %esp -- this is your stack pointer %ebp -- your frame pointer. Note that optimized code may use %ebp as a general register. Caveat programmer. Don't play with the segment registers unless you really know what you are doing :). 8. On entry to your assembler function setup a stack frame as follows (this allows debuggers to make sense of the stack): pushl %ebp movl %esp, %ebp Your first argument is available at 8(%ebp). A good way to learn how the assembler works is to use `cc -S' to generate assembler code and read the resulting ".s" file. Koshy From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 21:06:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA15266 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 21:06:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from Glock.COM (root@[198.82.228.165]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA15260 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 21:06:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mmead@localhost) by Glock.COM (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA00292 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 00:04:52 -0500 (EST) From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199603010504.AAA00292@Glock.COM> Subject: proxy arp - need help urgently To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 00:04:51 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'm trying to get a setup with two machines off one 10baseT port. One machine will be connected to the port, and will have a second ethernet card, and the second machine will have one ethernet card that is connected to the first machine's second ethernet card via 10base2. What I need to figure out, is how to create a set of ifconfig/route statements upon startup that will allow the first machine to have both of its network interfaces on the same logical subnet, but a route to default through one of them, and a route to the second host on the other. Does anyone have any experience with this? Your help is *greatly* appreciated! Thanks... -matt -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@Glock.COM http://www.Glock.COM/~mmead/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 21:44:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA17169 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 21:44:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au ([129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA17161 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 21:44:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA29628 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 16:16:48 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199603010546.QAA29628@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Linuxulator unhappiness... To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 16:16:46 +1030 (CST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Heyho people; got a problem here. I can't be sure whether this has been fixed in -current; I don't have the latest 2.2 snap installed (yet). This is Linux-IDL; I'm working with them on other problems, but this is somewhat of a showstopper : 4912 idl CALL read(0x3,0x3ed008,0x8000) 4912 idl GIO fd 3 read 32768 bytes "SR\0\^D\0\0\0 ... remainder of 32K read ... 4912 idl RET read 32768/0x8000 4912 idl CALL old.lseek(0x3,0xffff8004,0x1) 4912 idl RET old.lseek 4 4912 idl CALL read(0x3,0x3ed008,0x8000) 4912 idl RET read -1 errno 27 File too large 4912 idl CALL read(0x3,0x3ed008,0x8000) 4912 idl RET read -1 errno 27 File too large The lkm debug output is consistent : Linux-emul(5426): lseek(3, -32764, 1) (the file in question is about 60K) Any ideas? This is under -stable built yesterday. (EFBIG is an odd one; it doesn't show up many places at all. Most of them wouldn't appear to be a problem, given the '4' returned by lseek...) (And is there a more linux-aware ktrace anywhere? The stock one does a pretty nominal job...) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 22:18:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA18972 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 22:18:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from virginia.edu (mars.itc.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA18958 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 22:18:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from archive.cs.virginia.edu by mail.virginia.edu id ab14571; 29 Feb 96 21:24 EST Received: from stretch.cs.Virginia.edu (atf3r@stretch-fo.cs.Virginia.EDU [128.143.136.14]) by archive.cs.Virginia.EDU (8.7.1/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA23375; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 21:24:18 -0500 (EST) Received: by stretch.cs.Virginia.edu (4.1/SMI-2.0) id AA17917; Thu, 29 Feb 96 21:24:15 EST Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 21:24:15 -0500 (EST) From: "Adrian T. Filipi-Martin" Reply-To: adrian@virginia.edu To: invalid opcode Cc: "Amancio Hasty Jr." , Stephen Hocking , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Nope, it's still ftp.cdrom.com. An announcement went by the doom/quake announment newsgroup from some people with @ftp.cdrom.com addrresses declaring that ftp.cdrom.com _is_ the primary quake site. On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, invalid opcode wrote: > On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > > The icing on the cake, if I am not mistaken the main ftp site for iD > > stuff is ftp.cdrom.com. > > Amancio > > ftp.idsoftware.com > > == Chris Layne ============================================================== > == coredump@nervosa.com ================= http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == > Adrian System Administrator for the NVL, NIIMS and Telemedicine labs adrian@virginia.edu ---->>>>| Support your local programmer, http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~atf3r/ --->>>| STOP Software Patent Abuses NOW! Member: The League for -->>| For an application and information Programming Freedom ->| see: http://www.lpf.org/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 22:29:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA20017 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 22:29:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from matlock.mindspring.com (matlock.mindspring.com [204.180.128.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA20002 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 22:29:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from borg.mindspring.com (root@borg.mindspring.com [204.180.128.14]) by matlock.mindspring.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA00654 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 01:28:49 -0500 Received: from firebrick.mindspring.com [204.180.128.159] by borg.mindspring.com with ESMTP id BAA07677 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 01:28:46 -0500 Received: (from news@localhost) by firebrick.mindspring.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA03561; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 01:28:49 -0500 To: lists-freebsd-hackers@matlock.mindspring.com Path: usenet From: Robert Sanders Newsgroups: lists.freebsd.hackers Subject: Re: 100-baseT hub recommendation? Date: 01 Mar 1996 01:28:47 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc. Lines: 17 Distribution: mindspring Message-ID: References: <199602292159.NAA10325@Root.COM> NNTP-Posting-Host: xena.mindspring.com X-Newsreader: September Gnus v0.38/XEmacs 19.13 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Thu, 29 Feb 1996 20:53:49 EST, David Greenman said: > The only known problem with the Intel cards is a bug in the NIC that causes > it to freeze up if you have garbage on your physical net - like plugging a > 10BaseT ethernet card into your 100BaseTX hub. ...or when you reboot your ethernet switch. This happened to us twice during our evaluation of a BayNet 100bT switch. I think we'll stick to the DEC-based cards. By the way, the fxp driver isn't terribly well documented, and I don't see an obvious way to force 100Mbps vs 10, or full duplex vs half except possibly by recompilation. That's another advantage of the DEC-based boards (drivers, at least). thanks, -- Robert From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 23:16:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA21983 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 23:16:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from ra.dkuug.dk (ra.dkuug.dk [193.88.44.193]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA21964 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 23:16:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sos@localhost) by ra.dkuug.dk (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA25598; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 08:05:03 +0100 Message-Id: <199603010705.IAA25598@ra.dkuug.dk> Subject: Re: Linuxulator unhappiness... To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 08:05:03 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603010546.QAA29628@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Mar 1, 96 04:16:46 pm From: sos@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In reply to Michael Smith who wrote: > > > Heyho people; got a problem here. I can't be sure whether this has been > fixed in -current; I don't have the latest 2.2 snap installed (yet). Hmm, there is a bunch of changes waiting from both Peter Wemm and myself and I'm pretty sure we don't have that problem after those.. Stay tuned... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 23:18:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA22080 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 23:18:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA22073 Thu, 29 Feb 1996 23:18:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA00558; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 17:51:40 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199603010721.RAA00558@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Linuxulator unhappiness... To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 17:51:39 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603010705.IAA25598@ra.dkuug.dk> from "sos@FreeBSD.ORG" at Mar 1, 96 08:05:03 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk sos@FreeBSD.ORG stands accused of saying: > > In reply to Michael Smith who wrote: > > > > > > Heyho people; got a problem here. I can't be sure whether this has been > > fixed in -current; I don't have the latest 2.2 snap installed (yet). > > Hmm, there is a bunch of changes waiting from both Peter Wemm and myself > and I'm pretty sure we don't have that problem after those.. > > Stay tuned... I would crawl naked over crushed glass for access to these changes; we really need this up and going in the next week or so. (and I'm quite happy to drop everything else to help in any way shape or form if I can.) > Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 23:26:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA22353 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 23:26:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from virginia.edu (mars.itc.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA22348 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 23:26:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from ccat.sas.upenn.edu by mail.virginia.edu id aa20648; 1 Mar 96 2:23 EST Received: (from root@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA28191 for newjour-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 03:20:29 GMT Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 03:20:29 GMT From: owner-newjour@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Message-Id: <199603010320.DAA28191@ccat.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: WebActive Apparently-To: newjour-outgoing@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Forwarded message: Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 19:04:03 +0100 From: m.moebius@uni-koeln.de (Michael Uwe Moebius) Subject: WebActive Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 00:31:10 -0600 From: samt@prognet.com http://www.webactive.com WebActive is the most up-to-date online publication on the World Wide Web connecting socially-conscious citizens, Web surfers and activists with organizations that respond to their concerns. Since its release in January it has received a four-star review by the Seattle Times and is visited each week by nearly ten thousand people. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 23:36:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA22742 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 23:36:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA22724 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 23:35:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id SAA00764 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 18:08:49 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199603010738.SAA00764@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: new 2.2 SNAP? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 18:08:48 +1030 (CST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk *whimper* I'm trying to get hold of the new 2.2 snap, but not having much luck. (I even raided your box, Jordan, that's how desperate I am!) ftp.cdrom.com is unreachable, and none of the mirrors I can find appear to have it. Anyone out there? (if 'crl.net' get their act together later on I'll be fine, I'm sure, I'm just stuck needing this now 8( ) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 23:42:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA22960 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 23:42:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA22954 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 23:42:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id SAA00619; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 18:36:40 +1100 Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 18:36:40 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199603010736.SAA00619@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: dahanaya@chaph.usc.edu, koshy@india.hp.com Subject: Re: help - assembly Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >2. You have to indicate the size of operands as part of the opcode > mnemonic. > For example: > movl %eax, %ebx # moves 32 bits from eax to ebx > movw %ax, %bx # moves 16 bits from ax to bx ... > The suffixes are 'l' for 32 bit operands, 'w' for 16 bit operands, > 'b' for byte operands. The assembler will cross check that the > opcode's implied size and the actual sizes of the operands match. > This catches lots of interesting bugs before they can occur. Actually, it will get this wrong quite often, and introduce lots of interesting bugs if you forget the suffixes or use the wrong register names (%ax instead of %eax...). Example: something like movl %al,%bh ^ oops You have to indicate the size of operands only to avoid these bugs. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 23:43:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA22985 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 23:43:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from lirmm.lirmm.fr (lirmm.lirmm.fr [193.49.104.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA22980 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 23:42:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from lirmm.fr (baobab.lirmm.fr [193.49.106.14]) by lirmm.lirmm.fr (8.7.1/8.6.4) with ESMTP id IAA28576 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 08:42:26 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199603010742.IAA28576@lirmm.lirmm.fr> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: processes wouldn't die (again) Date: Fri, 01 Mar 1996 08:42:24 +0100 From: "Philippe Charnier" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I didn't upgrade to current for a week to see if I can reproduce the bug. Nate suggested to not swap on both wd and sd, so I removed swapping on scsi disks. After a week (3 hours/day) I didn't see anything and I decided to update my binaries (I couldn't resist). And the thing was there: installing float.h floatingpoint.h stdarg.h varargs.h ===> rpcsvc cd /usr/src/include/rpcsvc ; rpcgen -h yp.x -o /usr/src/include/rpcsvc/obj/yp.h Installing RPC service header and definition files yp.x stopped for more than an hour, system is still alive and top reports: load averages: 1.26, 1.10, 1.03 22:40:54 39 processes: 1 running, 38 sleeping Cpu states: 9.9% user, 0.0% nice, 8.0% system, 0.0% interrupt, 82.1% idle Mem: 7576K Active, 1540K Inact, 3788K Wired, 1460K Cache, 1591K Buf, 284K Free Swap: 33M Total, 13M Used, 20M Free, 39% Inuse ... 63 root 2 0 176K 96K select 0:00 0.00% 0.00% routed 100 root 2 0 204K 60K select 0:00 0.00% 0.00% inetd 110 root 2 0 196K 0K select 0:00 0.00% 0.00% 90 daemon 2 0 176K 0K select 0:00 0.00% 0.00% 717 root -6 0 152K 200K piperd 0:00 0.00% 0.00% tee 1754 root -20 0 480K 136K subpro 0:00 0.00% 0.00% sh kill -9 1754 returns but the process is still here. ^C gave me the prompt back, but didn't kill the process anymore. root 1754 0.0 0.8 480 108 p1 D 9:28PM 0:00.02 /bin/sh -ec cd /usr/src/include/rpcsvc; cmp -s klm_prot.x /usr/include/rpcsvc/klm_prot.x || (install -c -m 444 -o bin -g bin klm_prot.x /usr/include/rpcsvc; echo klm_prot.x) -------- -------- Philippe Charnier charnier@lirmm.fr LIRMM, 161 rue Ada, 34392 Montpellier cedex 5 -- France ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 29 23:49:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA23229 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 23:49:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it ([131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA23224 for ; Thu, 29 Feb 1996 23:49:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id IAA01551; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 08:41:50 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199603010741.IAA01551@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Can we get back to the original theme?? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 08:41:49 +0100 (MET) Cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4679.825632923@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 29, 96 02:28:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I'll save you from counting - that's 22 mailing lists one might post > to, and certainly room for many different types of discussion. Wanna The problem is that they are too many, and some are overlapping. As an example, -hackers in my mind covers many of the specialized lists (-arch, -fs, etc.). I don't believe it's wise to add a new list for each part of the system (or we should have -samba, -tcpip, -nfs, -video...). Probably it would be not a bad idea to try to reduce the number of lists to a manageable number, otherwise people will keep using the most popular ones (-questions, -current, -hackers...). I am often in doubt on which list to use, and I end up with either -hackers or -questions Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 00:06:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA23976 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 00:06:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA23970 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 00:05:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA06191; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 00:05:42 -0800 (PST) To: Warner Losh cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to use the sup'd CVS tree? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 29 Feb 1996 19:48:08 MST." <199603010248.TAA04607@rover.village.org> Date: Fri, 01 Mar 1996 00:05:41 -0800 Message-ID: <6189.825667541@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk http://www.p3.com > : The whole CVS vs P3 vs > > What's P3? > > Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 00:31:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA25051 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 00:31:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA25046 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 00:31:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id AAA11751; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 00:30:45 -0800 Message-Id: <199603010830.AAA11751@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Michael Smith cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new 2.2 SNAP? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 01 Mar 1996 18:08:48 +1030." <199603010738.SAA00764@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Fri, 01 Mar 1996 00:30:45 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >*whimper* I'm trying to get hold of the new 2.2 snap, but not having >much luck. (I even raided your box, Jordan, that's how desperate I am!) > >ftp.cdrom.com is unreachable, and none of the mirrors I can find appear >to have it. > >Anyone out there? (if 'crl.net' get their act together later on I'll be >fine, I'm sure, I'm just stuck needing this now 8( ) Wcarchive (ftp.freebsd.org) is down at the moment. Due to a disk failure, it has eaten the filesystem that had FreeBSD on it. I'm scrambling at the moment to mirror the data _back_ to wcarchive. It's going to take at least the rest of the night. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 01:14:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA27925 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 01:14:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA27918 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 01:14:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id UAA04513; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 20:10:20 +1100 Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 20:10:20 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199603010910.UAA04513@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: davidg@Root.COM, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com Subject: Re: 100-baseT hub recommendation? Cc: angio@aros.net, hackers@freebsd.org, jc@irbs.com Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [SMC Etherpower 10/100's vs Intel 100baseT] > There aren't any known bugs in the driver. Performance is about 5% higher >with the Intel card compared to the SMC/DEC. There seems to be a latency problem in the de driver or hardware. The ed driver gives about 3% higher performance than the de driver with my 10Mbps cards: machine a: P133 - ASUS P55TP4XE - Accton EN1203 (DEC 21040) machine b: 486DX2/66 - No-name slow ISA - No-name AE-200JL (NE2000/WD8013EBT clone) machine c: 486DX/33 - No-name slow ISA - No-name AE-200JL (NE2000/WD8013EBT clone) a -> c as seen be c ttcp-r: socket ttcp-r: accept from 192.168.2.1 ttcp-r: buflen=8192, nbuf=2048, align=16384/+0, port=5001 tcp ttcp-r: 167772160 bytes in 154.38 real seconds = 1061.26 KB/sec +++ ttcp-r: 116133 I/O calls, msec/call = 1.36, calls/sec = 752.24 ttcp-r: 1.3user 32.9sys 2:34real 22% 16i+228d 228maxrss 0+2pf 115572+505csw b -> c as seen by c ttcp-r: socket ttcp-r: accept from 192.68.2.2 ttcp-r: buflen=8192, nbuf=2048, align=16384/+0, port=5001 tcp ttcp-r: 167772160 bytes in 149.82 real seconds = 1093.55 KB/sec +++ ttcp-r: 116367 I/O calls, msec/call = 1.32, calls/sec = 776.69 ttcp-r: 1.3user 33.3sys 2:29real 23% 16i+226d 220maxrss 0+2pf 116075+502csw As usual, PIO gives better performance than DMA :-). The busmastering controller has less overhead of course: machine a: 8% Sys + 4% Intr = 12% machine b: 25% Sys + 55% Intr = 80% Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 03:37:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA06705 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 03:37:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA06700 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 03:37:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA10457; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 22:35:26 +1100 Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 22:35:26 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199603011135.WAA10457@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: Linuxulator unhappiness... Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >Heyho people; got a problem here. I can't be sure whether this has been >fixed in -current; I don't have the latest 2.2 snap installed (yet). I seem to remember this being reported and fixed before, but it doesn't seem to be fixed in -current: > 4912 idl CALL read(0x3,0x3ed008,0x8000) > 4912 idl GIO fd 3 read 32768 bytes > "SR\0\^D\0\0\0 >... remainder of 32K read ... > 4912 idl RET read 32768/0x8000 > 4912 idl CALL old.lseek(0x3,0xffff8004,0x1) > 4912 idl RET old.lseek 4 > 4912 idl CALL read(0x3,0x3ed008,0x8000) > 4912 idl RET read -1 errno 27 File too large > 4912 idl CALL read(0x3,0x3ed008,0x8000) > 4912 idl RET read -1 errno 27 File too large This is probably caused by bogus types and overflow bugs in linux_file.c function linux_lseek(): 1) the offset is declared as `unsigned long' in `struct linux_seek_args'. File offsets should normally be signed to avoid problems like the current one (that's why off_t is signed). 2) the offset is converted to an off_t and passed to lseek. Its value began as -32764 and became 0xffff8004 when it was implicitly converted to an unsigned long and converting it to an off_t leaves it as 0xffff8004. 3) lseek returns the final offset in an array of 2 ints. The value of 0x10000004 isn't representable as a Linux off_t, so it should be an error if it occurs. It shouldn't be allowed to occur - the final offset and the result should both be 4. No error checking is done, so this value is implicitly converted to 4 and there is no sign of an error until the next read. The read fails because the file offset is 0x100000004 and that is too big for the file system. On a big file system, read would return EOF. linux_lseek should use olseek() to do the error checking. However, olseek() has similar bugs. E.g., if the file offset is 0x7fffffff and the seek is 1 forward, then the final offset is 0x80000000 (+2GB) but the application is told that it is (long)0x80000000 == (off_t) 0xffffffff80000000 (-2GB). It should be what the application asked for, i.e., -2GB. >Any ideas? This is under -stable built yesterday. linux_lseek() in -stable is essentially the same as in -current. The implicit cast of the final value is explicit. This is a no-op on the i386 because the i386 is little-endian and ints have the same size as Linux off_t's and the unportable explicit and implicit casts all work... Reporting lseek as "old.lseek" is another bug. The linux syscall number for lseek is 19, which happens to agree with the FreeBSD syscall number for old.lseek. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 04:00:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA07403 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 04:00:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA07354 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 03:59:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA01482; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 22:28:05 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199603011158.WAA01482@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Linuxulator unhappiness... To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 22:28:05 +1030 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au In-Reply-To: <199603011135.WAA10457@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Mar 1, 96 10:35:26 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans stands accused of saying: > > >Heyho people; got a problem here. I can't be sure whether this has been > >fixed in -current; I don't have the latest 2.2 snap installed (yet). > > I seem to remember this being reported and fixed before, but it doesn't > seem to be fixed in -current: > > > 4912 idl CALL read(0x3,0x3ed008,0x8000) > > 4912 idl GIO fd 3 read 32768 bytes > > "SR\0\^D\0\0\0 > >... remainder of 32K read ... > > 4912 idl RET read 32768/0x8000 > > 4912 idl CALL old.lseek(0x3,0xffff8004,0x1) > > 4912 idl RET old.lseek 4 > > 4912 idl CALL read(0x3,0x3ed008,0x8000) > > 4912 idl RET read -1 errno 27 File too large > > 4912 idl CALL read(0x3,0x3ed008,0x8000) > > 4912 idl RET read -1 errno 27 File too large > > This is probably caused by bogus types and overflow bugs in linux_file.c > function linux_lseek(): > > 1) the offset is declared as `unsigned long' in `struct linux_seek_args'. > File offsets should normally be signed to avoid problems like the current > one (that's why off_t is signed). > > 2) the offset is converted to an off_t and passed to lseek. Its value > began as -32764 and became 0xffff8004 when it was implicitly converted to > an unsigned long and converting it to an off_t leaves it as 0xffff8004. > > 3) lseek returns the final offset in an array of 2 ints. The value > of 0x10000004 isn't representable as a Linux off_t, so it should be > an error if it occurs. It shouldn't be allowed to occur - the final > offset and the result should both be 4. No error checking is done, so > this value is implicitly converted to 4 and there is no sign of an > error until the next read. The read fails because the file offset is > 0x100000004 and that is too big for the file system. On a big file > system, read would return EOF. Ok, that's all well and understandable. There just remains the small issue of a solution 8) Not having access to a Linux system, I can't check what the arguments to their lseek system call _are_. If someone can tell me, I can try fixing it, otherwise I'm educated, but no better off 8( FWIW, under 2.0.5 or -stable shortly therafter, this worked fine. (Whether as a result of something else being broken is of course anyone's guess 8) > linux_lseek should use olseek() to do the error checking. However, > olseek() has similar bugs. E.g., if the file offset is 0x7fffffff > and the seek is 1 forward, then the final offset is 0x80000000 > (+2GB) but the application is told that it is (long)0x80000000 == > (off_t) 0xffffffff80000000 (-2GB). It should be what the application > asked for, i.e., -2GB. This is confusing and doesn't hint at an answer. linux_lseek should use olseek() (from where?), but it shouldn't. Or should it? *sigh*. Soren/Peter? Is this one you've fixed? If not, I'll hack at it a little and try to come up with something that works in the interim 8( > Bruce -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 04:58:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA09945 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 04:58:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from ra.dkuug.dk (ra.dkuug.dk [193.88.44.193]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA09940 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 04:58:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sos@localhost) by ra.dkuug.dk (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA27917; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 13:44:32 +0100 Message-Id: <199603011244.NAA27917@ra.dkuug.dk> Subject: Re: Linuxulator unhappiness... To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 13:44:32 +0100 (MET) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@FreeBSD.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au In-Reply-To: <199603011158.WAA01482@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Mar 1, 96 10:28:05 pm From: sos@FreeBSD.org Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Michael Smith who wrote: > > Bruce Evans stands accused of saying: > > > > This is probably caused by bogus types and overflow bugs in linux_file.c > > function linux_lseek(): > > > > 1) the offset is declared as `unsigned long' in `struct linux_seek_args'. > > File offsets should normally be signed to avoid problems like the current > > one (that's why off_t is signed). > > exactly, just change the unsigned long to a signed long... > *sigh*. Soren/Peter? Is this one you've fixed? If not, I'll hack at it > a little and try to come up with something that works in the interim 8( I think so, I'll have to check my sorces when I get home. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 05:36:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA11162 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 05:36:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA11154 Fri, 1 Mar 1996 05:36:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id OAA14546 ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 14:35:44 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id OAA21686 ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 14:35:43 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.3/keltia-uucp-2.7) id OAA11090; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 14:05:15 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199603011305.OAA11090@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 14:05:15 +0100 (MET) Cc: coredump@nervosa.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602292144.WAA01800@DeepCore.dk> from "sos@FreeBSD.ORG" at "Feb 29, 96 10:44:35 pm" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1688 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL10 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk It seems that sos@FreeBSD.ORG said: > > That means I don't HAVE to finish the ELF loader :) Please, please finish it :-) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #1: Tue Feb 20 01:16:51 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 06:03:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA12354 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 06:03:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (mmdf@salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA12334 Fri, 1 Mar 1996 06:03:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from bell.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id aa26226; 1 Mar 96 14:03 GMT To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Annex erpcd with 2.1.0R? (sob) X-Address: School Of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland. X-Phone: (Home)+353-(0)1-8204643 (College)+353-(0)1-7022280 X-PGP: Public Key on Request Date: Fri, 01 Mar 1996 14:03:24 +0000 From: Colman Reilly Message-ID: <9603011403.aa26226@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Content-Description: text I'm currently trying to install the 9.2.7 version of the host software for Annex terminal servers on a box running 2.1.0R. I've seen the archives, and I *know* people have got this working with FreeBSD before. Can anyone tell me what version of FreeBSD this was with, or has anyone else solved this problem under 2.1.0? The symptoms are: * The software compiles after applying the recommended fixes from the Xylogics site, and the Annex is able to boot from the running erpcd. * However, the remote administration command (na) does not work, failing with a timeout when I try to communicate with an Annex and the Annex is unable to communicate with the erpcd running as a security server. I'm not sure if the problem is at the level of networking code or something more obvious. * I have the TCP extensions turned off on the machine in question, and yes, I have tried turning them on just to see if it makes a difference. * The Xylogics support people don't understand this at all - as far as they know it all works with FreeBSD, but they're not sure what version. From the mail in the archive I suspect that it was either 2.0.5 or 1.1.5 that people were using when it was discussed. Anyone know? Colman From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 07:36:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA20702 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 07:36:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA20689 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 07:36:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA14797; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 08:38:37 -0700 Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 08:38:37 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199603011538.IAA14797@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Philippe Charnier" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: processes wouldn't die (again) In-Reply-To: <199603010742.IAA28576@lirmm.lirmm.fr> References: <199603010742.IAA28576@lirmm.lirmm.fr> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I didn't upgrade to current for a week to see if I can reproduce the bug. > Nate suggested to not swap on both wd and sd, so I removed swapping on scsi > disks. It wasn't me that suggested it. I said that I was swapping on both drives and had not problems, so I wasn't sure why that would fix the problem. > After a week (3 hours/day) I didn't see anything and I decided to > update my binaries (I couldn't resist). And the thing was there: ... I lean towards hardware problems for these. If may be your drive/CPU getting warm and locking up. Is your box adequately cooled? Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 08:05:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA22079 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 08:05:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from phoenix.volant.org (root@phoenix.volant.org [205.179.79.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA22073 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 08:05:44 -0800 (PST) From: patl@asimov.volant.org Received: from asimov.volant.org (asimov.volant.org [205.179.79.65]) by phoenix.volant.org (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA19088; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 08:03:10 -0800 Received: by asimov.volant.org (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA21808; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 08:04:59 -0800 Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 08:04:59 -0800 Message-Id: <9603011604.AA21808@asimov.volant.org> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? Reply-To: patl@Phoenix.volant.org Cc: jehamby@lightside.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: tyaeAEh5y74gNY8XEHdutw== Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk |> Well, here is my take on things. I think that ID should be able to make |> their games for any operating systems they want, including Linux. If they |> don't want to make a FreeBSD version, then ultimately WE must get our |> Linux ELF emulation in shape to run that. However, I find it more than a |> little annoying that they push multiple Unix versions of DOOM (Solaris, |> SGI, QNX, Linux), as well as OS/2 and Win32 betas, out on the net, then |> don't support them. If you finger help@idsoftware.com (which is a NeXT |> box, btw), all of the Unix ports of DOOM say: |> |> "Do not send us mail about this port. We will delete it. NO CHANGE." |> |> Now this isn't a very nice attitude to take! ... The explanation for their position is simple and easily justifiable. Id didn't do those ports; and is offering access to the binaries only as a service to their customers, just like the contributed levels and other hacks. I don't know the details of the other ports; but I do know that the Solaris port was the result of a couple of SunSoft's (X) Windows Performance Engineers (under non-disclosure) and a couple of Id's engineers who like Suns, all working on their own time. (I also know that when it was done, doom on an SS-20 with a ZX framebuffer was the fastest, smoothest implementation available. Easily beat the SGI...) -Pat My opinions are my own. For a small royalty, they can be yours as well... Pat Lashley, Senior Software Engineer, Henry Davis Consulting patl@Phoenix.Volant.ORG || http://Phoenix.Volant.ORG/ || lashley@netcom.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 09:01:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA24641 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 09:01:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from omega.physik.fu-berlin.de (omega.physik.fu-berlin.de [130.133.3.51]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA24629 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 09:01:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from prospero.physik.fu-berlin.de (graichen.dialup.fu-berlin.de [160.45.217.183]) by omega.physik.fu-berlin.de (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id SAA30044 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 18:01:15 +0100 (MET) Received: (from news@localhost) by prospero (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA04639; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 08:38:13 +0100 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Path: graichen From: graichen@omega.physik.fu-berlin.de (Thomas Graichen) Newsgroups: local.freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: xforms maintenance tools (was Re: Tcl/Tk sysinstall) Date: 1 Mar 1996 07:38:13 GMT Organization: his FreeBSD box :-) Lines: 22 Distribution: local Message-ID: <4h69h5$4eq@prospero.physik.fu-berlin.de> References: <199602292048.VAA16812@nietzsche.bowtie.nl> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.physik.fu-berlin.de X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Marc van Kempen (marc@bowtie.nl) wrote: : > : > I just wish it were available in source form.. :-( : > : The original forms toolkit is available in source, it is written : for sgi's gl-library though. I have been toying with the idea of : rewriting it, or at least making it compile with Ygl (a gl clone : for X). It also has the sources to fdesign. The license states : that it is free for non-commercial use. : Maybe we could get some people together to rewrite this stuff? how about using Mesa instead of gl - as far as i remember it is very OpenGl compatible t -- thomas graichen graichen@mail.physik.fu-berlin.de graichen@FreeBSD.org perfection is reached, not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away antoine de saint-exupery From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 09:25:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA25990 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 09:25:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA25984 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 09:25:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA14348; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:18:17 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603011718.KAA14348@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: WebActive To: webactive@prognet.com Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:18:17 -0700 (MST) Cc: samt@prognet.com, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > http://www.webactive.com > > WebActive is the most up-to-date online publication on the World Wide > Web connecting socially-conscious citizens, Web surfers and activists > with organizations that respond to their concerns. Since its release in > January it has received a four-star review by the Seattle Times and is > visited each week by nearly ten thousand people. I assume this posting to the FreeBSD -hackers list means that the server is running FreeBSD, or that Progressive Networks (the sponsors of WebActive) is finally going to port their RealAudio program to FreeBSD? Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 10:07:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA28266 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:07:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA28254 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:07:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA09297 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 19:12:51 +0100 Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 19:12:51 +0100 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Message-Id: <199603011812.TAA09297@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: twin activities, where do they take place? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Where are the TWIN (Willows) activities going on? --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 10:15:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA28666 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:15:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from inet-gw-0.ey.ca (inet-gw-0.EY.CA [132.220.23.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA28641 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:14:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from sobeco.sobeco.com (server-001.EY.CA [132.220.12.5]) by inet-gw-0.ey.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA09209 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 13:14:43 -0500 Received: by sobeco.sobeco.com(5.65+/IDA-1.3.5) id AA04520; Fri, 1 Mar 96 13:14:13 -0500 From: "s.millions" Message-Id: <9603011814.AA04520@sobeco.sobeco.com> Subject: Gremlins changing [cm]time on files? To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 1 Mar 96 13:14:12 EST Reply-To: stacy@ey.ca Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I am running "tripwire" on FBSD 2.1.0-Release system and I have had a strange problem crop up a couple of times now (it's been running for ~35 days now) The ctime and mtime of some files are changing. It has happened twice now. I am fairly confident that there was no one on the machine both times that it happened. There was no modification to the data (the file sizes didn't change and the file signatures did not change). The files in question are /usr/sbin/sendmail and /usr/local/etc/in.nnrpd Any suggestions? -stacy -- "I will finish what I st..." stacy@ey.ca - Bart Simpson From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 10:26:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA29266 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:26:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA29259 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:26:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA16149; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:27:09 -0800 Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:27:09 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: -current and 3c509's? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have upgraded a box to -current supped on 2-28-96. Kernel builds fine, reboots fine, finds ep0 fine, configures it fine, but still doesn't respond to pings in or out. I put in a 2.1-RELEASE kernel, and it boots and pings just fine. I may be missing something obvious, but I can't imagine what. The link light on the 3com switch comes active, but no data. The interesting thing is that if I ping from the -current box, ping kicks back an error with "sendto: permission denied". Which seems unusual. Any tip appreciated. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 10:29:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA29576 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:29:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA29541 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:29:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA02730; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:26:29 -0800 Message-Id: <199603011826.KAA02730@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: "Christoph P. Kukulies" cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: twin activities, where do they take place? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 01 Mar 1996 19:12:51 +0100." <199603011812.TAA09297@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 01 Mar 1996 10:26:29 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk If I am not mistaken, they should be in this group and the rest of the virtues of win32 , quake flames (which I started ) shall be going to chat. Amancio >>> "Christoph P. Kukulies" said: > > Where are the TWIN (Willows) activities going on? > > > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 10:41:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA00402 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:41:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from Glock.COM (root@glock.com [198.82.228.165]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA00396 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:41:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mmead@localhost) by Glock.COM (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA05926; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 13:40:38 -0500 (EST) From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199603011840.NAA05926@Glock.COM> Subject: kingston PCI ethernet To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 13:40:37 -0500 (EST) Cc: dlacroix@bistromath.bevc.blacksburg.va.us X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Does the Kingston PCI ethernet card (DECchip21041 based) work well with FreeBSD? I'd like to put two busmastering cards in my proxyarp box instead of two PIO cards. -matt -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@Glock.COM http://www.Glock.COM/~mmead/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 10:41:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA00455 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:41:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom9.netcom.com (bakul@netcom9.netcom.com [192.100.81.119]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA00450 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:41:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by netcom9.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id KAA07225; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:40:17 -0800 Message-Id: <199603011840.KAA07225@netcom9.netcom.com> To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: WebActive In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 01 Mar 96 10:18:17 MST." <199603011718.KAA14348@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 10:40:15 -0800 From: Bakul Shah Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I assume this posting to the FreeBSD -hackers list means that the > server is running FreeBSD, or that Progressive Networks (the sponsors > of WebActive) is finally going to port their RealAudio program to > FreeBSD? Note that the posting Terry refers to was forwarded by m.moebius@uni-koeln.de (Michael Uwe Moebius) to (perhaps) newjour and thence by owner-newjour@ccat.sas.upenn.edu to the freebsd-hackers list. I don't see the point of sending this to the -hackers but samt@prognet.com probably doesn't even know about this forwarding. At any rate, there is a native RealAudio _server_ for FreeBSD. No such port of the RealAudio _player_ as yet but perhaps the Linux port can be used on FreeBSD? --bakul From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 10:54:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA00788 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:54:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA00783 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:54:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA02984; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:53:43 -0800 Message-Id: <199603011853.KAA02984@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Bakul Shah cc: Terry Lambert , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: WebActive In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 01 Mar 1996 10:40:15 PST." <199603011840.KAA07225@netcom9.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 01 Mar 1996 10:53:43 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> Bakul Shah said: > > I assume this posting to the FreeBSD -hackers list means that the > > server is running FreeBSD, or that Progressive Networks (the sponsors > > of WebActive) is finally going to port their RealAudio program to > > FreeBSD? > > Note that the posting Terry refers to was forwarded by > m.moebius@uni-koeln.de (Michael Uwe Moebius) to (perhaps) > newjour and thence by owner-newjour@ccat.sas.upenn.edu to > the freebsd-hackers list. I don't see the point of sending > this to the -hackers but samt@prognet.com probably doesn't > even know about this forwarding. > > At any rate, there is a native RealAudio _server_ for > FreeBSD. No such port of the RealAudio _player_ as yet but > perhaps the Linux port can be used on FreeBSD? The sound driver mixer ioctls have not been implement in the linux emulation layer so the RealAudio player is not going to work. We should ask them for a native sound player given that they already ported the server. Hello Progressive Networks, any good reason why the sound player was not ported? Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 11:17:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA01841 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 11:17:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.cdngateway.pe.ca (cdngateway.pe.ca [205.151.204.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA01836 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 11:17:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from by ns.cdngateway.pe.ca with SMTP (IPAD 0.9.8) id 3374800 ; Fri, 01 Mar 96 15:15:51 UTC Message-ID: <313784DC.274C@cdngateway.pe.ca> Date: Fri, 01 Mar 1996 15:14:36 -0800 From: Phil Holmstrom Technician Organization: Canadian Gateway Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD installation problems Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hey guys I am having a tiny bit of a problem installing the current release of FreeBSD. I am attempting to do it via the ftp media method, anf it will boot of the installation floppy ok and everything in to the installation menu. When I pick the connection device lp0 it is not able to reset it and the installation dies from that point. We are using a pent 100 and our ethernet card is an Intel Pro Ethernet Express 100 b card with all the factory default settings. Prior to this the machine was used as a windows nt server but now it is bonked off after the fdisk from installing the FreeBSD. Anyhow maybe its a configuration problem with the ethernet card since its a fairly new one. Anyhow any help would be appreciated,i can't wait to get the os up and running :). Phil Holmstrom Technician Canadian Gateway Inc. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 11:37:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA03584 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 11:37:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from zombie.falcon.ru (zombie.falcon.ru [194.190.198.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA03578 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 11:37:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from zombie.falcon.ru (zombie.falcon.ru [194.190.198.50]) by zombie.falcon.ru (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA00462; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 22:35:56 +0300 Message-ID: <3137519C.446B9B3D@falcon.ru> Date: Fri, 01 Mar 1996 19:35:56 +0000 From: Stanislav Protasov Organization: Westcom Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert CC: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Goldstar IDE CD-ROM References: <199603011718.KAA14348@phaeton.artisoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi All, I have installed GoldStar 542 IDE CD-ROM in my machine and enable ide cd-rom support in kernel. During startup the system (FreeBSD 2.1-Release) writes the following: wdc1: unit 1 (atapi): < \^B 1.40 GCD-R542/>, accel, ovlap wdc1: unit 1: unknown ATAPI protocol=3 And of course I can't use the cd. Is it possible to make it work? -- Best regards, Stanislav Protasov --------------------------------------------------------- Of course there's no reason for it, it's just our policy. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 12:40:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA07549 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 12:40:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA07544 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 12:39:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA14776; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 13:31:32 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603012031.NAA14776@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Goldstar IDE CD-ROM To: st@falcon.ru (Stanislav Protasov) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 13:31:32 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3137519C.446B9B3D@falcon.ru> from "Stanislav Protasov" at Mar 1, 96 07:35:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I have installed GoldStar 542 IDE CD-ROM in my machine and > enable ide cd-rom support in kernel. During startup the > system (FreeBSD 2.1-Release) writes the following: > > wdc1: unit 1 (atapi): < \^B 1.40 > GCD-R542/>, accel, ovlap > wdc1: unit 1: unknown ATAPI protocol=3 > > And of course I can't use the cd. Is it possible to make it > work? I don't know. You should try the -current driver; you should also post this to -questions, not -hackers. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 12:55:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA08541 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 12:55:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mbox1 (mbox1.ufsc.br [150.162.1.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA08531 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 12:55:48 -0800 (PST) From: joluca@mbox1.ufsc.br Received: from WÓuُ ([150.162.45.216]) by mbox1 (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA09866 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 17:58:43 -0400 Message-Id: <199603012158.RAA09866@mbox1> Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 18:45:30 -500 To: hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla/0.96 Beta (Windows) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi ! I would like in DOSEMU for FreeBSD. I have much dos binaries files and I interessed in this program. Thanks ! Henrique Rodrigues de Abreu From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 13:27:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA10911 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 13:27:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from werple.net.au (werple.mira.net.au [203.9.190.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA10905 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 13:27:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from cimaxp1.UUCP (Ucimlogi@localhost) by werple.net.au (8.7/8.7.1) with UUCP id IAA14391 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 08:09:12 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199603012109.IAA14391@werple.net.au> X-Authentication-Warning: werple.net.au: Ucimlogi set sender to cimaxp1!jb using -f Received: by cimaxp1.cimlogic.com.au; (5.65/1.1.8.2/10Sep95-0953AM) id AA16345; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 08:09:22 +1100 From: John Birrell Subject: Re: Can we get back to the original theme?? To: time.cdrom.com!jkh@werple.net.au (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 08:09:22 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <4679.825632923@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 29, 96 02:28:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm probably gonna get flamed for this, but it's largely because Grrr. So far I have received 3 copies of this message when I should have received 1. > > Jordan > -- John Birrell CIMlogic Pty Ltd jb@cimlogic.com.au 119 Cecil Street Ph +61 3 9690 6900 South Melbourne Vic 3205 Fax +61 3 9690 6650 Australia Mob +61 18 353 137 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 13:39:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA11867 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 13:39:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from digital.netvoyage.net (root@digital.netvoyage.net [205.162.154.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA11857 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 13:39:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bogawa@localhost) by digital.netvoyage.net (8.6.13/8.6.9) id NAA08753; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 13:38:45 -0800 Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 13:38:44 -0800 (PST) From: Bryan Ogawa at Work To: stacy@ey.ca cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Gremlins changing [cm]time on files? In-Reply-To: <9603011814.AA04520@sobeco.sobeco.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 1 Mar 1996, s.millions wrote: > Hi, > > I am running "tripwire" on FBSD 2.1.0-Release system and I have had > a strange problem crop up a couple of times now (it's been running > for ~35 days now) > > The ctime and mtime of some files are changing. It has happened twice > now. I am fairly confident that there was no one on the machine both > times that it happened. There was no modification to the data (the file > sizes didn't change and the file signatures did not change). > > The files in question are /usr/sbin/sendmail and /usr/local/etc/in.nnrpd > > Any suggestions? > > -stacy I've experienced this as well on a 2.0.5-RELEASE machine. I have less certainty that no one did the deed, but the md5 signatures seem to be identical, so I don't think this is the problem. bryan > > -- > "I will finish what I st..." stacy@ey.ca > - Bart Simpson > Bryan K. Ogawa Questions or Problems with NetVoyage? help@netvoyage.net Check out the NetVoyage HelpWeb at.. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 13:54:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA13029 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 13:54:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (precipice.shockwave.com [171.69.108.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA13020 Fri, 1 Mar 1996 13:54:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.shockwave.com (localhost.shockwave.com [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA00721; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 13:53:31 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199603012153.NAA00721@precipice.shockwave.com> To: questions@freebsd.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: using ddb to debug a double-panic? Date: Fri, 01 Mar 1996 13:53:27 -0800 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'm seeing something -very- strange while working on a device driver. When I add a delay to some code that's doing direct I/O to the parallel port, I get a system hang (but I can pop out to ddb and look at things, however ddb is showing that I'm just waiting in the idle loop). It seems like something is going to sleep on a system resource and never coming back. So, I figured, what the heck, I'd add a couple of kernel printfs in strategic places so I could find out where it was actually hanging (I didn't feel like doing breakpoints). I -thought- our kernel printf was supposed to be safe to use. I'm not at raised IPL and I don't believe I'm overflowing the stack anywhere, but without fail, I get a perfectly reproducable double-panic which takes me out to DDB. Now, the question I'm asking is: Could someone give me a leg-up on tracking the original problem that caused the first panic to occur? Obviously, the stack/frame pointer from the double panic point to the panic code, but the original stuff does (?) get saved somewhere. Is there a simple sequence I can type into ddb to switch stack pointers and frames so I can do a "where" to see where I was when the first panic occured? Thanks, a confused Paul From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 14:10:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA14289 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 14:10:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA14282 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 14:10:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by Sysiphos id AA06940 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Fri, 1 Mar 1996 23:10:47 +0100 Message-Id: <199603012210.AA06940@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 23:10:47 +0100 In-Reply-To: Jake Hamby "Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation?" (Feb 28, 14:25) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: Jake Hamby Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Feb 28, 14:25, Jake Hamby wrote: } Subject: Re: Quake's out, where's that Linux ELF emulation? } Well, certainly being able to run the Linux version is better than no } version at all, right? Also, if our Linux ABI is reasonably efficient } (as it seems to be), then would there be any significant further gain to } make a "native" port? For many applications, it seems unlikely. After Well, if we have to run dynamically linked Linux binaries anyway, then we'd better start linking against Linux shared libraries ourselves ;-) } all, we're just patching Linux system calls through to our kernel, it's } not as if we actually have to go user their crummy KERNEL (although we do } have to use their shared libraries...). Exactly. And those will take away precious RAM pages in my system, for identical functionality as provided by the FreeBSD libraries. (And it may amount to several MB total, if native and Linux X11 binaries are used simultanously ...) It's the same situation, that causes Linux to need more RAM, if both a.out and ELF applications are used. But we always managed to avoid this ... } Anyway, I agree with Jordan on this, better to work on the ELF support in } FreeBSD then tell vendors, "Oh by the way, the Linux version of your } program works GREAT on FreeBSD, why don't you advertise it as } FreeBSD-compatible too (and maybe think about doing a native port for your } next version)?" :-) Well, there won't be FreeBSD support then, because it is too expensive for the vendor to support another platform. Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~se From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 15:11:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA16767 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 15:11:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from vic.cioe.com (vic.cioe.com [204.120.165.37]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA16760 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 15:11:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from steve@localhost) by vic.cioe.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA10575 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 18:10:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 18:10:59 -0500 (EST) From: Steven Ames Message-Id: <199603012310.SAA10575@vic.cioe.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: lost termcap? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I just recompiled the world and updated the /etc files on one of my FreeBSD machines and now when I log in it gives me this message: Terminal type? [cons25] tset: terminal type cons25 is unknown actually any terminal type I try is "unknown". I looked at all of the files I thought should have some affect and they all look good. Anyone got some clues? -Steve From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 15:38:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA19167 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 15:38:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA19160 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 15:38:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA01543 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 00:38:45 +0100 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA17059 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Sat, 2 Mar 1996 00:38:29 +0100 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA09082 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Fri, 1 Mar 1996 23:43:50 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA02887 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 23:06:30 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199603012206.XAA02887@yedi.iaf.nl> X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands Subject: Looking for experiences with Ultrastor 12F and big disks To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 23:06:29 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi there Has anybody ever succeeded in using an Ultrastor 12F and big ESDI disks? I have a couple of Micropolis 760Mb drives that have 54 sec/tr and 1600+ cyls. Sofar, no luck. Experiences are welcome (I was apparantly over-optimistic when I wrote in the FBSD handbook that the U12F works fine ) Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 15:38:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA19192 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 15:38:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA19181 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 15:38:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA01547; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 00:38:48 +0100 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA17068 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Sat, 2 Mar 1996 00:38:32 +0100 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA09089 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Fri, 1 Mar 1996 23:43:52 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA00811; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 20:00:25 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199603011900.UAA00811@yedi.iaf.nl> X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands Subject: Re: Can we get back to the original theme?? To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 20:00:24 +0100 (MET) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603010741.IAA01551@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from "Luigi Rizzo" at Mar 1, 96 08:41:49 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I'll save you from counting - that's 22 mailing lists one might post > > to, and certainly room for many different types of discussion. Wanna > > The problem is that they are too many, and some are overlapping. > As an example, -hackers in my mind covers many of the specialized > lists (-arch, -fs, etc.). I don't believe it's wise to add a new > list for each part of the system (or we should have -samba, -tcpip, > -nfs, -video...). > > Probably it would be not a bad idea to try to reduce the number of > lists to a manageable number, otherwise people will keep using the > most popular ones (-questions, -current, -hackers...). I am often > in doubt on which list to use, and I end up with either -hackers > or -questions > > Luigi I plead guilty to using the same tactic. It's just that a -politics should cover most of the volume recently seen on -hackers. Tiring... Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 17:03:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA23458 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 17:03:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA23448 Fri, 1 Mar 1996 17:03:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA04108; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 11:36:56 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199603020106.LAA04108@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Linuxulator unhappiness... To: sos@FreeBSD.org Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 11:36:55 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199603011244.NAA27917@ra.dkuug.dk> from "sos@FreeBSD.org" at Mar 1, 96 01:44:32 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk sos@FreeBSD.org stands accused of saying: > > > This is probably caused by bogus types and overflow bugs in linux_file.c > > > function linux_lseek(): > > > > > > 1) the offset is declared as `unsigned long' in `struct linux_seek_args'. > > > File offsets should normally be signed to avoid problems like the current > > > one (that's why off_t is signed). > > > > > exactly, just change the unsigned long to a signed long... Ta; that gets around the problem for now. Now on to see what else doesn't work 8) > Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 17:05:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA23655 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 17:05:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from nike.efn.org (garcia.efn.org [198.68.17.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23612 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 17:05:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gurney_j@localhost) by nike.efn.org (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA09631; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 17:06:32 -0800 Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 17:06:30 -0800 (PST) From: John-Mark Gurney Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: cgi script Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have writen some code that simplifies writing cgi scripts in C... I am wondering if FreeBSD would in interested in include the library with FreeBSD's source... if you guys are could you send me some information on how to apply the proper copyright? because I would like to submit it under the standard Berkley (if there is such a thing) copyright... this is the first time I have thought about submitting source... I also don't currently have access to a complete source tree (either current or stable)... I hope this isn't a problem... Thanks... and TTYL.. John-Mark gurney_j@efn.org http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Modem/FAX: (541) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 17:45:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA26213 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 17:45:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hsu@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA26207 Fri, 1 Mar 1996 17:45:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 17:45:32 -0800 (PST) From: Jeffrey Hsu Message-Id: <199603020145.RAA26207@freefall.freebsd.org> To: gurney_j@nike.efn.org Subject: Re: cgi script Cc: hackers Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk The canonical contributor's copyright in is /usr/share/examples/etc/bsd-style-copyright, a very non-intuitive place for it: /* * Copyright (c) [year] * [your name here]. All rights reserved. * * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions * are met: * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software * must display the following acknowledgement: * This product includes software developed by [your name] * and [any other names deserving credit ] * 4. Neither the name of the author nor the names of any co-contributors * may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software * without specific prior written permission. * * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY [your name] AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND * ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE * IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE * ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE REGENTS OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE * FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF * SUCH DAMAGE. * */ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 17:49:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA26384 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 17:49:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from ocean.fit.qut.edu.au (root@ocean.fit.qut.edu.au [131.181.2.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA26379 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 17:49:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from droid.fit.qut.edu.au (n1266128@droid.fit.qut.edu.au [131.181.27.1]) by ocean.fit.qut.edu.au (8.7.4/8.7.2) with ESMTP id LAA06736 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 11:47:04 +1000 (EST) Received: (from n1266128@localhost) by droid.fit.qut.edu.au (8.7.4/8.7.3) id LAA00847; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 11:47:08 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 11:47:07 +1000 (EST) From: CRAIG A HILLS X-Sender: n1266128@droid.fit.qut.edu.au To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Kernel Hacking info Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hello there, My name is Craig Hills and I am a final year undergraduate student at the Queensland University of Technology. I am doing a project which involves modifying the FreeBSD kernel, so I am wondering if any of you know of any good ftp sites or www URL's that have information that would be suitable as an introduction to kernel modification. Any such information wil be greatly appreciated, Regards Craig Hills From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 18:37:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA29401 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 18:37:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom8.netcom.com (bakul@netcom8.netcom.com [192.100.81.117]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA29396 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 18:37:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by netcom8.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id SAA07730; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 18:35:20 -0800 Message-Id: <199603020235.SAA07730@netcom8.netcom.com> To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: WebActive In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 01 Mar 96 10:53:43 PST." <199603011853.KAA02984@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 18:32:30 -0800 From: Bakul Shah Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > The sound driver mixer ioctls have not been implement in the linux > emulation layer so the RealAudio player is not going to work. > We should ask them for a native sound player given that they > already ported the server. > Hello Progressive Networks, any good reason why the sound player > was not ported? Application companies port to those platforms where they can get the most customers (or where they have some other incentive such as a strategic partnership or a deal of some kind with another company). How many platforms are supported is also a function of resources required. Any way, a case can be made for a port of the server to FreeBSD far more easily than for a player port. The server typically runs on a web-server system and a high percentage of such systems are Unix based (and FreeBSD counts here). Compared to that a low percentage of frontend systems (that run NetScape & other browsers and where you'd want to run the player) are Unix based and FreeBSD is a small fraction of _that_. Nevertheless, if enough people ask for a FreeBSD player, may be it'll happen -- so if you genuinely care, send some email to prognet. The other thing that'll help is if its sound system interface is made *identical* to one of Linux, Solaris or SGI's interfaces. BTW, the 2.0 server was never `ported' to FreeBSD; it was developed on it! [In case anyone wonders, yes, I work at Progressive Networks but I speak for myself here.] -- bakul From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 19:11:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA01126 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 19:11:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA01115 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 19:11:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0tship-0009YsC; Fri, 1 Mar 96 19:11 PST Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 19:11:02 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: Stefan Esser cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Linux "stub" libraries? (was Re: Quake's out..) In-Reply-To: <199603012210.AA06940@Sysiphos> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 1 Mar 1996, Stefan Esser wrote: > Exactly. And those will take away precious RAM pages in my system, > for identical functionality as provided by the FreeBSD libraries. > (And it may amount to several MB total, if native and Linux X11 > binaries are used simultanously ...) > > It's the same situation, that causes Linux to need more RAM, if both > a.out and ELF applications are used. But we always managed to avoid > this ... Well, the ultimate solution would be to somehow make "stub" versions of all the Linux shared libraries (a.out and eventually ELF) that simply connect and "pass through" to the FreeBSD version. Can anybody with experience in the technical issues verify whether or not this is possible? If so it would be a great boost for us (and could be applied to Linux for systems with a.out and ELF binaries). > Well, there won't be FreeBSD support then, because it is too expensive > for the vendor to support another platform. As I said, better to support FreeBSD through emulation than no FreeBSD support at all. Besides, we should think positively, maybe one day we will be more popular than Linux and Linux users will have to run FreeBSD apps in emulation mode. :-) ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 19:13:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA01264 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 19:13:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA01257 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 19:13:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0tshkn-0009YsC; Fri, 1 Mar 96 19:13 PST Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 19:13:04 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: John Birrell cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Can we get back to the original theme?? In-Reply-To: <199603012109.IAA14391@werple.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 2 Mar 1996, John Birrell wrote: > > I'm probably gonna get flamed for this, but it's largely because > > > Grrr. So far I have received 3 copies of this message when I should have > received 1. Me too... Maybe its my imagination, but it seems like I'm getting multiple copies (delayed by hours) of some other messages too (and not just the ones where I'm in the CC: list). ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 19:15:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA01397 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 19:15:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA01392 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 19:15:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0tshnW-0009Z2C; Fri, 1 Mar 96 19:15 PST Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 19:15:52 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: Wilko Bulte cc: Luigi Rizzo , jkh@time.cdrom.com, FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Can we get back to the original theme?? In-Reply-To: <199603011900.UAA00811@yedi.iaf.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 1 Mar 1996, Wilko Bulte wrote: > I plead guilty to using the same tactic. It's just that a -politics > should cover most of the volume recently seen on -hackers. > > Tiring... > > Wilko What about -advocacy? Linux has one on USENET, and it's filled with much the same drivel, only the Subjects look like "Windoze sucks, Linux is mega el1te!" and "Bill Gates is a Baby Killer!"... ;-) ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 19:41:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA03255 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 19:41:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA03212 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 19:41:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id DAA14731 ; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 03:37:46 GMT Message-Id: <199603020337.DAA14731@palmer.demon.co.uk> To: Jake Hamby cc: John Birrell , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Can we get back to the original theme?? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 01 Mar 1996 19:13:04 PST." Date: Sat, 02 Mar 1996 03:37:45 +0000 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Jake Hamby wrote in message ID : > On Sat, 2 Mar 1996, John Birrell wrote: > > Grrr. So far I have received 3 copies of this message when I should have > > received 1. > Me too... Maybe its my imagination, but it seems like I'm getting > multiple copies (delayed by hours) of some other messages too (and not > just the ones where I'm in the CC: list). There was an unusual problem on freefall meaning that messages got ``injected'' multpiple times into the outbound mail lists (i.e. freebsd-hackers-outgoing, or whatever). As yet, no-one knows what caused this, and it seemed to clear itself up before we managed to get in and investigate. We found some illegal list subscriptions, but nothing that would cause what we were seeing. All I can say is ``sorry'' :-( Gary P.S. JMB has copies of headers from duplicated e-mail which proves it was a freefall problem unlike one anyone on the root alias has ever seen before From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 19:46:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA03771 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 19:46:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA03758 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 19:46:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id DAA21883 ; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 03:42:30 GMT To: Jake Hamby cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Can we get back to the original theme?? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 01 Mar 1996 19:15:52 PST." Date: Sat, 02 Mar 1996 03:42:30 +0000 Message-ID: <21881.825738150@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Jake Hamby wrote in message ID : > What about -advocacy? Linux has one on USENET, and it's filled with much > the same drivel, only the Subjects look like "Windoze sucks, Linux is > mega el1te!" and "Bill Gates is a Baby Killer!"... ;-) Erk. Please, no... USENET has one advantage, it's relatively easy to re-distribute. Unless someone wants to host this on their box, I'm VERY against this idea. Freefall WOULD melt under the typical traffic of most -advocacy groups generate if it had to do it by e-mail... Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 20:03:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA05120 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 20:03:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA05115 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 20:03:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA06322; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 20:02:49 -0800 Message-Id: <199603020402.UAA06322@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Bakul Shah cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: WebActive In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 01 Mar 1996 18:32:30 PST." <199603020235.SAA07730@netcom8.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 01 Mar 1996 20:02:49 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk First of you it is most cool that the server was developed on FreeBSD --- Fantastic to hear!!! Given that Bakul is on the list and I am pretty sure that he knows the sound driver hackers (hang on let me go to my closet darn where is that army certified flame thrower, shit) Bakul, just compiled the audio player with the existing sound driver. If you have any problems just e-mail me . The FreeBSD sound driver is the linux sound driver. Amancio >>> Bakul Shah said: > > The sound driver mixer ioctls have not been implement in the linux > > emulation layer so the RealAudio player is not going to work. > > We should ask them for a native sound player given that they > > already ported the server. > > > Hello Progressive Networks, any good reason why the sound player > > was not ported? > > Application companies port to those platforms where they can > get the most customers (or where they have some other > incentive such as a strategic partnership or a deal of some > kind with another company). How many platforms are > supported is also a function of resources required. Any > way, a case can be made for a port of the server to FreeBSD > far more easily than for a player port. > > The server typically runs on a web-server system and a > high percentage of such systems are Unix based (and FreeBSD > counts here). Compared to that a low percentage of frontend > systems (that run NetScape & other browsers and where you'd > want to run the player) are Unix based and FreeBSD is a > small fraction of _that_. > > Nevertheless, if enough people ask for a FreeBSD player, may > be it'll happen -- so if you genuinely care, send some email > to prognet. The other thing that'll help is if its sound > system interface is made *identical* to one of Linux, > Solaris or SGI's interfaces. > > BTW, the 2.0 server was never `ported' to FreeBSD; it was > developed on it! > > [In case anyone wonders, yes, I work at Progressive Networks > but I speak for myself here.] > > -- bakul From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 21:23:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA10005 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 21:23:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from distortion.eng.umd.edu (distortion.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA09996 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 21:23:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from skipper.eng.umd.edu (skipper.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.208]) by distortion.eng.umd.edu (8.7.4/8.7) with ESMTP id AAA11150; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 00:23:09 -0500 (EST) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by skipper.eng.umd.edu (8.7.4/8.7) id AAA07766; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 00:23:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 00:23:08 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@skipper.eng.umd.edu To: Jake Hamby cc: John Birrell , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we get back to the original theme?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Fri, 1 Mar 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > On Sat, 2 Mar 1996, John Birrell wrote: > > > > I'm probably gonna get flamed for this, but it's largely because > > > > > > Grrr. So far I have received 3 copies of this message when I should have > > received 1. > > Me too... Maybe its my imagination, but it seems like I'm getting > multiple copies (delayed by hours) of some other messages too (and not > just the ones where I'm in the CC: list). Yeah, Jake, except some of my _many_ received duplicates have been delayed by days, even a whole week. For the first time, yesterday I got a dup of a src-cur ctm update. I sure would like a clue as to what's going on. I know I've made no change in my mail setup for months, I've been too busy with classes to get fancy lately. > > ---Jake > ========================================================================== Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu, I run FreeBSD-current on n3lxx + Journey2 Three Accounts for the Super-users in the sky, Seven for the Operators in their halls of fame, Nine for Ordinary Users doomed to crie, One for the Illegal Cracker with his evil game In the Domains of Internet where the data lie. One Account to rule them all, One Account to watch them, One Account to make them all and in the network bind them. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 1 21:49:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA10980 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 21:49:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from seagull.rtd.com (root@seagull.rtd.com [198.102.68.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA10971 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 21:49:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dgy@localhost) by seagull.rtd.com (8.6.12/1.2) id WAA05932 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Fri, 1 Mar 1996 22:49:48 -0700 From: Don Yuniskis Message-Id: <199603020549.WAA05932@seagull.rtd.com> Subject: /bin/sh tickler... To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 22:49:48 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Greetings, Earthlings (and those of you in the back row, too)! Apologies in advance for bothering the list with this one but I couldn't think of a more knowledgable group to pass it by (how's that for "sucking up"???) ;-) I was recently writing a few shell scripts and couldn't seem to find a mechanism for processing tabs within a script! Since tabs are *so* pervasive, I can't imagine this is impossible. Yet, I can't find a way to do it... I started out with something like (not *really* this brainless...): foo=`cat $bar | awk -- '/pattern/ { print "field1 field2" }'` bar=`echo $foo | cut -f2` echo $bar which, curiously, choked because the tab between field1 and field2 had been replaced by a space. Replacing it with a '\t' didn't help, either. In playing with this, I've noted even simpler test cases that yield "unexpected" results: foo="a tab" bar='a tab' echo $foo echo $bar and, different shells respond differently (which, I guess, is to be expected to some degree). I've since found a workaround for my original problem but this one just nags at me begging for understanding. I suspect it has to do with the "substitution" performed by the shell in evaluating these things. But, as I imagine this will bite me again at some time in the future, I'd appreciate any words of wisdom/experience which could help me avoid the same no-brainer mistake in the future. Thx, --don From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 2 00:08:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA18523 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 00:08:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA18516 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 00:08:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA20647; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 00:09:39 -0800 Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 00:09:39 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Following config file kills network, why? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk THis config file when compiled on -current (2/28/96) fails. It also fails on any recent -stable, although it compiles and runs fine on a 2.1-release box. (Modulo the 686 stuff). The symptom is simple. Basically everything works, except the 3com card. when ever I try to use it, I get no output (no tx on the tp), and ping reports "sendto: Permission denied". The box is a P590-triton, one 2940, one 2940UW, 2 serial, 1 parallel (disabled), some crappy VGA card, and a 3c509B. Box works beautifully under 2.1-release, but I'm stumped on -current. All I recall removing were drivers that I don't even have and itcouldn't find, but I'll be darned if I can figure out the bad interaction. Any tip appreciated, I'd really like to get -current cruising. Note that a generic kernel from 2.2 works fine as well. So I suspect some interdependency somewhere. machine "i386" cpu "I386_CPU" cpu "I486_CPU" cpu "I586_CPU" cpu "I686_CPU" ident NEWS maxusers 128 options MATH_EMULATE #Support for x87 emulation options INET #InterNETworking options FFS #Berkeley Fast Filesystem options NFS #Network Filesystem options MSDOSFS #MSDOS Filesystem options "CD9660" #ISO 9660 Filesystem options PROCFS #Process filesystem options "COMPAT_43" #Compatible with BSD 4.3 [KEEP THIS!] options SCSI_DELAY=15 #Be pessimistic about Joe SCSI device options BOUNCE_BUFFERS #include support for DMA bounce buffers options UCONSOLE #Allow users to grab the console options "OPEN_MAX=256" options "CHILD_MAX=256" options IPFIREWALL options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE options IPACCT options QUEUE_FULL_SUPPORTED options AHC_TAGENABLE config kernel root on sd0 controller isa0 controller pci0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 disk fd1 at fdc0 drive 1 # A single entry for any of these controllers (ncr, ahb, ahc) is sufficient # for any number of installed devices. controller ahc0 controller ahc1 controller scbus0 at ahc0 controller scbus1 at ahc1 device sd0 at scbus0 target 0 device sd1 at scbus0 target 1 device sd2 at scbus0 target 2 device sd3 at scbus0 target 3 device sd4 at scbus0 target 4 device sd5 at scbus0 target 5 device sd6 at scbus0 target 6 device sd7 at scbus0 target 7 device sd10 at scbus1 target 0 device sd11 at scbus1 target 1 device sd12 at scbus1 target 2 device sd13 at scbus1 target 3 device sd14 at scbus1 target 4 device sd15 at scbus1 target 5 device sd16 at scbus1 target 6 device sd17 at scbus1 target 7 # syscons is the default console driver, resembling an SCO console device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr # Mandatory, don't remove device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr device lpt0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 vector lptintr #device de0 device ep0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 15 vector epintr pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device log pseudo-device pty 32 # keep this if you want to be able to continue to use /stand/sysinstall pseudo-device gzip # Exec gzipped a.out's From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 2 00:44:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA19981 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 00:44:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from DeepCore.dk (aalb11.pip.dknet.dk [194.192.0.171]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA19920 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 00:43:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sos@localhost) by DeepCore.dk (8.7.4/8.7.3) id JAA20533; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 09:28:10 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199603020828.JAA20533@DeepCore.dk> Subject: Re: Linux "stub" libraries? (was Re: Quake's out..) To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 09:28:10 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Mar 1, 96 07:11:02 pm From: sos@freebsd.org Reply-to: sos@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Jake Hamby who wrote: > > On Fri, 1 Mar 1996, Stefan Esser wrote: > > > Exactly. And those will take away precious RAM pages in my system, > > for identical functionality as provided by the FreeBSD libraries. > > (And it may amount to several MB total, if native and Linux X11 > > binaries are used simultanously ...) > > > > It's the same situation, that causes Linux to need more RAM, if both > > a.out and ELF applications are used. But we always managed to avoid > > this ... > > Well, the ultimate solution would be to somehow make "stub" versions of > all the Linux shared libraries (a.out and eventually ELF) that simply > connect and "pass through" to the FreeBSD version. Can anybody with > experience in the technical issues verify whether or not this is possible? > If so it would be a great boost for us (and could be applied to Linux for > systems with a.out and ELF binaries). Hmm, I think it might be possible to fake ALL the libs under ELF, the way it works we should be able to make our own linuxELF libs and have them working WITHOUT even a kernel emulator. THis way I can run (some) SVR4 binaries on my system, with a fake svr4 libc that provides the svr4 functionality but have a freebsd system call interface. This greatly depends on having the source for the libraries, but for the linux case this is no problem (it is for svr4 :( ) The main showstopper here is the amount of work involved in doing this. For svr4 its a "doit once" affair, but for linux you'll have to follow their "patch of the hour" releases to be sure it works, not my idea of having a good time :( > > Well, there won't be FreeBSD support then, because it is too expensive > > for the vendor to support another platform. > > As I said, better to support FreeBSD through emulation than no FreeBSD > support at all. Besides, we should think positively, maybe one day we > will be more popular than Linux and Linux users will have to run FreeBSD > apps in emulation mode. :-) We will have Linux ELF support in FreeBSD, infact we are working on it.. And no, I dont ship "alpha" releases out the door yet :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 2 00:58:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA20696 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 00:58:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA20691 Sat, 2 Mar 1996 00:58:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id AAA13750; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 00:59:04 -0800 Message-Id: <199603020859.AAA13750@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Paul Traina cc: questions@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: using ddb to debug a double-panic? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 01 Mar 1996 13:53:27 PST." <199603012153.NAA00721@precipice.shockwave.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sat, 02 Mar 1996 00:59:04 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Is there a simple sequence I can type into ddb to switch stack pointers and >frames so I can do a "where" to see where I was when the first panic occured? I thought about writing some extensions to "trace" to allow it to apply a (operator supplied) 'stack offset' that would be used to adjust the pushed FPs (for precisely the purpose of what you're requesting above). ...but I haven't gotten around to this yet. For now, I just use 'curpcb' to find the stack that [might] have been in use at the time of the double fault, and then munge around in the stack manually (yes, I know, yuck). Of course if there was no process running at the time, you'll want to look at tmpstk instead. This code definately code use some work - I just wanted to catch the case in the first place so that machines didn't just "wedge"...and then have at least a snowball's chance of figuring out the cause. I'm not happy with the way that the double fault TSS currently works (using IdlePTD, etc), but I haven't had any time to implement it better. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 2 02:12:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA28050 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 02:12:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA28033 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 02:12:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA16400; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 12:14:12 +0200 Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 12:14:11 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: John-Mark Gurney cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cgi script In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 1 Mar 1996, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > I have writen some code that simplifies writing cgi scripts in C... I am > wondering if FreeBSD would in interested in include the library with > FreeBSD's source... if you guys are could you send me some information on > how to apply the proper copyright? because I would like to submit it > under the standard Berkley (if there is such a thing) copyright... If I'm not too wrong, you can see the copyright in the beginning of most include files in the /usr/include directory (beware! some may have the GPL instead). > this is the first time I have thought about submitting source... I also > don't currently have access to a complete source tree (either current or > stable)... I hope this isn't a problem... Thanks... and TTYL.. I speak only for myself but I think it a real good idea. > John-Mark > > gurney_j@efn.org > http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ > Modem/FAX: (541) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box)> Sander > Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) > > Eat good food, preserve nature, be nice to all nice people :) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 2 02:37:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA29853 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 02:37:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA29846 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 02:36:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id LAA13381 ; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 11:36:50 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id LAA25141 ; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 11:36:49 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.3/keltia-uucp-2.7) id LAA14653; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 11:22:56 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199603021022.LAA14653@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: lost termcap? To: steve@cioe.com (Steven Ames) Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 11:22:56 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199603012310.SAA10575@vic.cioe.com> from Steven Ames at "Mar 1, 96 06:10:59 pm" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1688 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL10 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Steven Ames said: > I looked at all of the files I thought should have some affect and they > all look good. Look at /usr/share/misc/termcap.db, it will probably be of size 0... It was a bug in the db code that should be fixed now. Re-sup to get the -CURRENT hash.c. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #1: Tue Feb 20 01:16:51 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 2 05:59:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA14348 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 05:59:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA14343 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 05:59:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA00448; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 08:55:14 -0500 Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 08:55:13 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" To: Jaye Mathisen cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Following config file kills network, why? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk there's been a problem off and on for a long time where you had to include ethernet cards in config that you did not have, just so the probe would reset the 509 correctly. Did you just try a GENERIC to see what happens? ron Ron Minnich |" Microsoft Word: It does so little and it does rminnich@sarnoff.com | it so slowly" -- Maya Gokhale (609)-734-3120 | ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 2 06:37:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA16567 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 06:37:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA16250 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 06:32:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA22153; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 16:31:25 +0200 From: John Hay Message-Id: <199603021431.QAA22153@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: Following config file kills network, why? To: mrcpu@cdsnet.net (Jaye Mathisen) Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 16:31:25 +0200 (SAT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jaye Mathisen" at Mar 2, 96 00:09:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > THis config file when compiled on -current (2/28/96) fails. It also fails > on any recent -stable, although it compiles and runs fine on a > 2.1-release box. (Modulo the 686 stuff). > > The symptom is simple. Basically everything works, except the 3com > card. when ever I try to use it, I get no output (no tx on the tp), and > ping reports "sendto: Permission denied". > >.... > > options IPFIREWALL > options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE > options IPACCT > I haven't tried it myself, but from what I understood of the new firewall code is that it is enabled by default and the default rule is to disable everything. Try it without the IPFIREWALL options or add a rule at the beginning of /etc/netstart to allow what you want. John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 2 07:09:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA18339 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 07:09:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA18217 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 07:07:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from allegro.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0tsstQ-000QYDC; Sat, 2 Mar 96 16:06 MET From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-To: grog@goin.de (Greg Lehey) Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA00348; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 16:05:38 +0100 Message-Id: <199603021505.QAA00348@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: FreeBSD users in Austin TX? To: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 16:05:37 +0100 (MET) Cc: hoosier@rider.cactus.org (Who Sir?) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jerry Dunham writes: > > Greg Lehey opined: >} There's quite an active FreeBSD group in Austin, > > Really? All I've run across is the Linux group, which is quite active > and very helpful, particularly Lindsay Haisley, who helped me some time > ago with my cousin's Kaypro 2X before I finally gave up and switched her > over to an Atari. Who do you know in the FreeBSD group, and how would I > reach them? Do they have patience with clueless newbies? Well, now I've shot my mouth, what's the truth? Can somebody answer Jerry (hoosier@rider.cactus.org) in a more authoritative manner than I have done? Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 2 07:47:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA21692 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 07:47:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from explorer.netserv.chula.ac.th (explorer.netserv.chula.ac.th [161.200.192.200]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA21672 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 07:47:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from pioneer.netserv.chula.ac.th (pioneer.netserv.chula.ac.th [161.200.192.12]) by explorer.netserv.chula.ac.th (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA02645; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 22:55:27 GMT Received: by pioneer.netserv.chula.ac.th (8.7.1) id WAA07365; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 22:38:16 GMT Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 22:38:15 +0000 (TST) From: Ravis Tasakorn To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Jon Loeliger , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Virus checking In-Reply-To: <3299.825539746@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Dear All I've just count myself to subscriber of freebsd-hackers-digest and wonna join you , Is this the way to treat new member ? Ah! :-( I really wonna know it !!! and if what I've asked is silly,I'm apologize to you. *!@#$dvfdkfdfbfbbllk >:-( Ravis. On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > [ Oh dear, it's as I thought ] > > > Jon Loelinger writes: > > > >>So, like Ravis Tasakorn was saying to me just the other day: > >> Dear Users > >> > >> I'd like to know if any of you have URL of cool sites where I can > >> download virus killer shareware programs. > >> > >> It may be some of these virtual creatures living in my harddisk,Ah! :( > >> > > > > Yes, and they sound somewhat intelligent too. Odd... > > Only just.. I did think to subject Ravis to a turing test in a short > round of private email, and he failed it, so I'd say this is simply > another manifestation of the MAILBOMBER virus they've been talking > about over on AOL. > > Yep, MAILBOMBER is one of the more insidious little virii to come out > of Eastern Europe. It apparently forges mail from a randomly > constructed alias and posts it to a randomly selected mailing list > (ours, unfortunately, appearing to be one of compiled-in choices). > The topic of the message is, of course, viruses and whether you have > any information on them. It then scans the replies it gets to see if > the keyword MAILBOMBER appears anywhere, thus cleverly measuring its > own levels of notoriety and taking various protective measures when > certain thresholds are exceeded. > > Fortunately, numerous bugs in its natural language output algorithm > make it rather easy to catch. It seems that the author wasn't a > native speaker of english, and he coded certain linguistic > misunderstandings on his part directly into the virus. > > In short, it may be a highly sophisticated piece of work, but it still > speaks terrible english. > > Hopefully my mention of it 3 times in this message should trigger its > response mechanism into fleeing this particular mailing list. > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 2 08:19:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA23637 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 08:19:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from grumble.grondar.za (root@grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA23628 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 08:19:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from grumble.grondar.za (mark@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.7.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA22791; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 18:18:11 +0200 (SAT) Message-Id: <199603021618.SAA22791@grumble.grondar.za> To: Narvi cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cgi script Date: Sat, 02 Mar 1996 18:18:07 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Narvi wrote: > On Fri, 1 Mar 1996, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > > > I have writen some code that simplifies writing cgi scripts in C... I am > > wondering if FreeBSD would in interested in include the library with > > FreeBSD's source... if you guys are could you send me some information on > > how to apply the proper copyright? because I would like to submit it > > under the standard Berkley (if there is such a thing) copyright... This is a great gesture! I am sure all of us are pleased! > If I'm not too wrong, you can see the copyright in the beginning of most > include files in the /usr/include directory (beware! some may have the > GPL instead). Better to look in /usr/share/examples/etc/bsd-style-copyright. Once you are done, put it up in some master site, announce it to us, and either make an official FreeBSD port for us, or ask one of us to do it. (See the FAQ for "ports" guidance). > > this is the first time I have thought about submitting source... I also > > don't currently have access to a complete source tree (either current or > > stable)... I hope this isn't a problem... Thanks... and TTYL.. > > I speak only for myself but I think it a real good idea. You speak for most of us! > Eat good food, preserve nature, be nice to all nice people :) Hear hear! M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grondar.za for PGP key From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 2 08:31:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA24440 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 08:31:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from whyy.org (jehrenkrantz@[199.234.236.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA24435 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 08:31:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jehrenkrantz@localhost) by whyy.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA00959; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 11:31:38 -0500 Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 11:31:37 -0500 (EST) From: Jeff Ehrenkrantz To: Ravis Tasakorn cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Jon Loeliger , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Virus checking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Ravis, Don't measure everyone by the occasional ignorant statment. Even those who retreat to denigrating others often are extremely bright and experienced people who have brain farts! Ignore it and you will learn alot. You certainly will not be able to get everyone to think before they tap the keys......Freedom is like having choises. They both require thinking for yourself.. Gud luk...je On Sat, 2 Mar 1996, Ravis Tasakorn wrote: > Dear All > > I've just count myself to subscriber of freebsd-hackers-digest and wonna > join you , Is this the way to treat new member ? Ah! :-( > > I really wonna know it !!! and if what I've asked is silly,I'm apologize > to you. > > *!@#$dvfdkfdfbfbbllk >:-( > > Ravis. > > > On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > [ Oh dear, it's as I thought ] > > > > > Jon Loelinger writes: > > > > > >>So, like Ravis Tasakorn was saying to me just the other day: > > >> Dear Users > > >> > > >> I'd like to know if any of you have URL of cool sites where I can > > >> download virus killer shareware programs. > >.................................................................... > > Jordan > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 2 11:50:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA13254 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 11:50:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA13243 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 11:50:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA11362; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 11:49:16 -0800 (PST) To: Ravis Tasakorn cc: Jon Loeliger , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Virus checking In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 02 Mar 1996 22:38:15 GMT." Date: Sat, 02 Mar 1996 11:49:16 -0800 Message-ID: <11360.825796156@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Dear All > > I've just count myself to subscriber of freebsd-hackers-digest and wonna > join you , Is this the way to treat new member ? Ah! :-( I've informed Ravis that he simply has the wrong place (and filled him in a bit on the Romanian post we got just 2 days before, which triggered my response). I've also told him that we're not a Windows group, we don't run Windows and Windows related questions will be appropriately ignored. On another note, would you believe that some people have written me to ask about the MAILBOMBER virus? Apparently a number of people, including a friend of mine, whom I formerly considered to be quite intelligent (:-), thought it was REAL.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 2 13:34:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA18978 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 13:34:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from cray-ymp.acm.stuorg.vt.edu (root@cray-ymp.acm.stuorg.vt.edu [128.173.43.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA18971 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 13:34:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kmitch@localhost) by cray-ymp.acm.stuorg.vt.edu (8.6.13/8.6.12) id QAA12638 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 16:35:37 -0500 From: Keith Mitchell Message-Id: <199603022135.QAA12638@cray-ymp.acm.stuorg.vt.edu> Subject: Console driver To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 16:35:37 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: kmitch@vt.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In stable (and current), I am having some problems with the console driver (mainly in switching from X to a tty). When shutting down/rebooting and occasionally when switching to a virtual terminal, my monitor goes into DPMS sleep mode. I can still use the keyboard and do just about anything, I just can't see anything. Once this happens, It doesn't seem to recover until I reboot. I am using Accelerated X, but have seen the problem under 2.1.0 and XFree 3.1.2. Has anyone else seen this? -- Keith Mitchell | The real danger is not that computers will Chesapeake/Blacksburg VA | begin to think like men, but that men will kmitch@infi.net | begin to think like computers. kmitch@csugrad.cs.vt.edu | -- Sydney J. Harris From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 2 15:02:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA24133 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 15:02:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mramirez.sy.yale.edu (mramirez.sy.yale.edu [130.132.57.207]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA24128 Sat, 2 Mar 1996 15:02:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrami@localhost) by mramirez.sy.yale.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id SAA04351; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 18:02:23 -0500 Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 18:02:22 -0500 (EST) From: Marc Ramirez Reply-To: mrami@minerva.cis.yale.edu To: Jeffrey Hsu cc: gurney_j@nike.efn.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: cgi script In-Reply-To: <199603020145.RAA26207@freefall.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Fri, 1 Mar 1996, Jeffrey Hsu wrote: > * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY [your name] AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND > * ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE > * IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE > * ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE REGENTS OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE Regents? > * FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL > * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS > * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) > * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT > * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY > * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF > * SUCH DAMAGE. > * > */ Marc. -- Every four seconds a woman has a baby. Our problem is to find this woman and stop her. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 2 15:34:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA25159 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 15:34:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA25154 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 15:34:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA28869; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 15:35:54 -0800 Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 15:35:54 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Panic uipc 3? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Whenever this box crashes with this, it gets stuck at syncing disks, and never reboots. Unfortunately. Anybody have a hint as to what it means? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 2 16:10:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA26962 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 16:10:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA26955 Sat, 2 Mar 1996 16:10:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA02992; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 17:09:34 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199603030009.RAA02992@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Linux "stub" libraries? (was Re: Quake's out..) To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 17:09:34 -0700 (MST) Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199603020828.JAA20533@DeepCore.dk> from "sos@FreeBSD.ORG" at Mar 2, 96 09:28:10 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Hmm, I think it might be possible to fake ALL the libs under ELF, the > way it works we should be able to make our own linuxELF libs and have > them working WITHOUT even a kernel emulator. THis way I can run (some) > SVR4 binaries on my system, with a fake svr4 libc that provides the > svr4 functionality but have a freebsd system call interface. Yes. This is exactly right. The SVR4 ABI is available... I can mail you a copy if you want (it's on a Motorolla FTP site, for what it's worth). > This greatly depends on having the source for the libraries, but for > the linux case this is no problem (it is for svr4 :( ) No. Building something that matches a written spec is trivial (so trivial it is often too boring to do 8-)). > The main showstopper here is the amount of work involved in doing > this. For svr4 its a "doit once" affair, but for linux you'll have to > follow their "patch of the hour" releases to be sure it works, not > my idea of having a good time :( Mine either. The SVR4 will buy us more in the immediate future anyway. I'd still like to the the install tools and other pieces I think are necessary to really claim you can install SVR4 apps the same way and "they will just work". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 2 17:03:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA29220 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 17:03:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA29215 Sat, 2 Mar 1996 17:03:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA08453; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 17:02:40 -0800 (PST) To: mrami@minerva.cis.yale.edu cc: Jeffrey Hsu , gurney_j@nike.efn.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: cgi script In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 02 Mar 1996 18:02:22 EST." Date: Sat, 02 Mar 1996 17:02:39 -0800 Message-ID: <8450.825814959@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > On Fri, 1 Mar 1996, Jeffrey Hsu wrote: > > > * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY [your name] AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND > > * ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE > > * IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPO SE > > * ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE REGENTS OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE > > Regents? Sorry, typo! That's supposed to be "reagents" - a reference to our chemical (carbon cycle) based nature. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 2 17:10:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA29669 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 17:10:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from pacman.symnet.net (www.rayner.com [199.44.6.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA29663 Sat, 2 Mar 1996 17:10:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dnelson@localhost) by pacman.symnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA04981; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 20:11:22 -0500 Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 20:11:20 -0500 (EST) From: Dru Nelson To: questions@freebsd.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: FIX: resolver, named, sendmail problem Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello, Inside: a description of the problem and a question on where this should be documented I just installed Freebsd 2.1.0 from the Infomagic CD-ROM last week. It was easy :-). When I setup my system, I setup 'hostname' to be pacman.symnet.net. I also made that system a secondary DNS server. Another system was the MX host for symnet.net. SymNet is a class C network. According to the man pages, that is sufficient setup for this system's resolver setup. Everything looked fine until I noticed that mail going to any other machine on symnet.net wasn't working. The /var/log/maillogs indicated that it couldn't resolve core or digdug. I became very confused. I checked with nslookup. When it started, it would pick up pacman as the server and begin working. It had some problems (lock up) resolving names. Stated 'couldn't find server' after several minutes. I believe it worked right off the bat, but if I said server pacman, then lookups would bomb/lockup (early morning memory disorder) I tried a simple fix of using resolv.conf and set up my domain and primary DNS. Of course, this fixed all, but the idea of not understanding why something wasn't working made me look further. I noticed that when nslookup came up it stated its address as 0.0.0.0. This was related to the problem. I checked the sources in the resolver lib. I only got as far as the header because it described the solution. The resolver is compiled to not use the Loopback interface so it will use INADDR_ANY which will bind to the first ifconfig'd interface. This happens to be my loopback. It wasn't really stressed anywhere that the interfaces must be placed first in /etc/sysconfig's network_interfaces variables or anywhere else. It is really easy to just put the ether as the second interface to be setup. For my solution, I just made a resolv.conf with the info in order and the first nameserver as 127.0.0.1 . Any recognition of this email to know that it has gotten into the right mailbox would be humbly appreciated. dru dnelson@symnet.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 2 17:29:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA00861 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 17:29:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA00844 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 17:29:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jkh@localhost) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) id RAA14863 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 17:29:05 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 17:29:05 -0800 (PST) From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199603030129.RAA14863@time.cdrom.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Just FYI.. What wcarchive.cdrom.com is doing these days.. Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk load averages: 5.17, 4.30, 4.00 17:22:49 933 processes: 10 running, 921 sleeping, 2 zombie Cpu states: 25.3% user, 0.4% nice, 20.7% system, 16.1% interrupt, 37.5% idle Memory: 261M Active, 3216K Inact, 46M Wired, 184M Cache, 696K Free Swap: 819M Total, 818M Free PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE TIME WCPU CPU COMMAND 5276 root 2 0 568K 396K sleep 3:32 5.76% 5.76% gzip 82 root 2 0 180K 328K sleep 27:23 2.67% 2.67% syslogd 13795 root 2 4 700K 452K sleep 11:57 1.53% 1.53% ftpd 17558 root 2 0 556K 440K sleep 0:05 0.99% 0.99% ls 18144 root 34 0 1448K 1480K run 0:00 0.75% 0.72% top 15189 root 2 0 700K 456K sleep 0:03 0.72% 0.72% ftpd 18387 root 2 0 680K 424K sleep 0:00 2.19% 0.31% ftpd 18325 root 2 0 680K 424K sleep 0:00 0.53% 0.31% ftpd 18354 root 2 0 680K 432K sleep 0:00 0.59% 0.27% ftpd 18374 root 2 0 680K 428K sleep 0:00 0.81% 0.27% ftpd 18365 root 2 0 680K 424K sleep 0:00 0.68% 0.27% ftpd 18375 root 2 0 680K 424K sleep 0:00 0.77% 0.23% ftpd 18381 root 2 0 680K 428K sleep 0:00 0.86% 0.19% ftpd 18301 root 2 0 680K 440K sleep 0:00 0.29% 0.19% ftpd 18372 root 2 0 680K 428K sleep 0:00 0.58% 0.19% ftpd root@wcarchive-> ftpcount Service class mirror-ftpserv - 5 users ( 10 maximum) Service class mirror-freebsd - 3 users ( 10 maximum) Service class mirror-linux - 0 users ( 10 maximum) Service class mirror-demos - 1 users ( 10 maximum) Service class mirror-os2 - 0 users ( 10 maximum) Service class mirror-upl - 0 users ( 10 maximum) Service class mirror-test - 0 users ( 10 maximum) Service class local - 1 users ( 10 maximum) Service class remote - 0 users ( 10 maximum) Service class anonymous - 822 users (1250 maximum) root@wcarchive-> pstat -sk Device 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/sd0b 204800 0 204736 0% Interleaved /dev/sd1b 204800 0 204736 0% Interleaved /dev/sd2b 204800 0 204736 0% Interleaved /dev/sd4b 204332 0 204268 0% Interleaved Total 818476 0 818476 0% As you can see, we're not swapping at all.. :-) Total memory in this machine is now 512MB. I'm sure David will probably have more technical details, should he have the time to post them and someone here indicates an interest, but since I've been posting these periodic little reports for FreeBSD's "flagship machine", I figured I should probably announce our latest upgrade. Support for over a thousand users at last - woo woo! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 2 19:32:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA06602 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 19:32:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA06593 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 19:32:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from maryann.eng.umd.edu (maryann.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.209]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.7.3/8.7) with ESMTP id WAA19571; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 22:31:46 -0500 (EST) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by maryann.eng.umd.edu (8.7.4/8.7) id WAA15268; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 22:31:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 22:31:45 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@maryann.eng.umd.edu To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Ravis Tasakorn , Jon Loeliger , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Virus checking In-Reply-To: <11360.825796156@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 2 Mar 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Dear All > > > > I've just count myself to subscriber of freebsd-hackers-digest and wonna > > join you , Is this the way to treat new member ? Ah! :-( > > I've informed Ravis that he simply has the wrong place (and filled him > in a bit on the Romanian post we got just 2 days before, which > triggered my response). I've also told him that we're not a Windows > group, we don't run Windows and Windows related questions will be > appropriately ignored. > > On another note, would you believe that some people have written me to > ask about the MAILBOMBER virus? Apparently a number of people, including > a friend of mine, whom I formerly considered to be quite intelligent (:-), > thought it was REAL.. :-) Last year, folks at University of Maryland's daily newspaper thought it was real, and printed a warning on page 1. I think this comes around vaguely in sync with flu epidemics. > > Jordan > ========================================================================== Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu, I run FreeBSD-current on n3lxx + Journey2 Three Accounts for the Super-users in the sky, Seven for the Operators in their halls of fame, Nine for Ordinary Users doomed to crie, One for the Illegal Cracker with his evil game In the Domains of Internet where the data lie. One Account to rule them all, One Account to watch them, One Account to make them all and in the network bind them. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 2 19:42:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA07438 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 19:42:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA07429 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 19:42:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA04786; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 19:40:16 -0800 Message-Id: <199603030340.TAA04786@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Just FYI.. What wcarchive.cdrom.com is doing these days.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 02 Mar 1996 17:29:05 PST." <199603030129.RAA14863@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 02 Mar 1996 19:40:15 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Congratulations!!! > latest upgrade. Support for over a thousand users at last - woo woo! :-) > Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 2 23:31:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA22081 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 23:31:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from zip.io.org (root@zip.io.org [198.133.36.80]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA22076 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 23:31:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from taob@localhost) by zip.io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA06726; Sun, 3 Mar 1996 02:29:28 -0500 Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 02:29:28 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? In-Reply-To: <1858.825354994@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Just what would you folks like to see? :-) I'd like to see a 4-CD set. :) Keep the install and live FS CD-ROM's, then add the uncompressed XFree86 source tree (with contrib, games, everything), indexed mailing list archives, Greg's "Installing and Running FreeBSD" book (if that's legal after it's in print) and FAQ's for as many packages/ports possible. Documentation, documentation and more documentation. The above should easily fill the 1.2GB on discs 3 and 4. -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 2 23:45:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA23639 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 23:45:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA23630 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 23:45:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA22183; Sat, 2 Mar 1996 23:45:01 -0800 (PST) To: Brian Tao cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: OK, so what would YOU like to see on that second CD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 03 Mar 1996 02:29:28 EST." Date: Sat, 02 Mar 1996 23:45:01 -0800 Message-ID: <22180.825839101@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > Just what would you folks like to see? :-) > > I'd like to see a 4-CD set. :) Keep the install and live FS [A loud scream is heard: "Nooooooooo..!" :-)] Jordan