From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 00:29:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA06448 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 00:29:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com [157.147.224.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA06440 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 00:28:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shocking@ariadne.prth.tensor.pgs.com) Received: from ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (ariadne [157.147.227.36]) by bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA01060 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:28:28 +0800 (WST) Received: from ariadne by ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA12355; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:28:28 +0800 Message-Id: <199811290828.QAA12355@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Setting up NIS on FreeBSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:28:28 +0800 From: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As part of my plan to take over the computing world with mouldy old machinery, I'm setting up a small network at home to experiment with. I've been scratching my head with NIS trying to get it going 100% - what are the steps I need to do when I have 2 machines, where one is the master server (and it's own client) and the other is the secondary server (and also a client)? I've seen quite a few knobs in /etc/rc.conf to twiddle - which ones are appropriate? Stephen -- The views expressed above are not those of PGS Tensor. "We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the Complete Works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true." Robert Wilensky, University of California To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 00:57:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA08026 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 00:57:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from niwa.cri.nz (clam.niwa.cri.nz [131.203.55.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA08018 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 00:57:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from w.knowles@niwa.cri.nz) Received: from neptune.niwa.cri.nz (neptune.niwa.cri.nz [131.203.56.34]) by niwa.cri.nz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA03393; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 21:56:59 +1300 (NZDT) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 21:56:59 +1300 (NZDT) From: Wayne Knowles X-Sender: wdk@neptune.niwa.cri.nz To: dennis@etinc.com cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vnode_if.c wont compile - MORE INFO Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 03:55 PM 11/27/98 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >> vnode_if.c:40: `vop_strategy_desc' undeclared here (not in a function) >> vnode_if.c:40: initializer element for `vfs_op_descs[1]' is not constant >> vnode_if.c:47: parse error before `int' >> *** Error code 1 >> >> Just did a 'config GENERIC" and a make. > >Did you 'make depend' first? >Yes. 'make depend' completes successfully. >one example: >struct vop_lease_args >I cant find this structure defined anywhere? Its seems that some include >file is >missing, or in the wrong path...where should these vop_ functions be declared? Dennis, I get a similar problem if /usr/src/sys is NFS mounted onto a 3.0-current server (while running 2.2.7R on the client). The only difference is that the file is vnode_if.h If you look at vnode_if.h a page of zero's has been dropped into the middle of it. Both files are generated by a script as part of the Makefile - there is a good chance it could be related. The file is OK on the server, and if you touch the file on either the server or the client the uncorrupted file reappears and the kernel build completes. I plan to track it down further when I get spare time. Is your filesystem NFS mounted ? Does touch vnode_if.* fix the problem ? Wayne -- _____ Wayne Knowles, Systems Manager / o \/ National Institute of Water & Atmospheric Research Ltd \/ v /\ P.O. Box 14-901 Kilbirnie, Wellington, NEW ZEALAND `---' Email: w.knowles@niwa.cri.nz To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 04:32:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA25634 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 04:32:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tim.xenologics.com (tim.xenologics.com [194.77.5.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA25617 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 04:31:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from seggers@semyam.dinoco.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tim.xenologics.com (8.8.5/8.8.8) with UUCP id NAA20172; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 13:30:39 +0100 (MET) Received: from semyam.dinoco.de (semyam.dinoco.de [127.0.0.1]) by semyam.dinoco.de (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06496; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 13:16:12 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from seggers@semyam.dinoco.de) Message-Id: <199811291216.NAA06496@semyam.dinoco.de> To: Dennis cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, seggers@semyam.dinoco.de Subject: Re: vnode_if.c wont compile -FIXED, BUT? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 28 Nov 1998 13:43:19 EST." <199811281345.NAA00334@etinc.com> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 13:16:11 +0100 From: Stefan Eggers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I do notice that 'config XXXXX" doesnt scrub the directory anymore, is this > a good thing? For me definitely yes. Imagine you decide to add a new device driver or tune some parameter in the kernel's configuration. Now you just have to compile the driver's source and link a kernel. Previously you had to recompile the whole kernel to do that. Stefan. -- Stefan Eggers Lu4 yao2 zhi1 ma3 li4, Max-Slevogt-Str. 1 ri4 jiu3 jian4 ren2 xin1. 51109 Koeln Federal Republic of Germany To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 05:49:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA00957 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 05:49:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA00951; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 05:49:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA06436; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 14:49:19 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA08268; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 14:49:18 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981129144917.T9226@follo.net> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 14:49:17 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Daniel Eischen Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, lists@tar.com, jb@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Thread locking (was Re: cvs commit: src/include pthread.h src/lib/libc_r/uthread uthread_mattr_kind_np.c uthread_mutex.c) References: <199811290231.VAA28198@pcnet1.pcnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199811290231.VAA28198@pcnet1.pcnet.com>; from Daniel Eischen on Sat, Nov 28, 1998 at 09:31:16PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [Moved from cvs-all to -hackers] On Sat, Nov 28, 1998 at 09:31:16PM -0500, Daniel Eischen wrote: > And can we also make a default mutex an error checking mutex? Not easily. The problem is that the default type of locks we've used before are more forgiving - they e.g. allow a thread to lock a lock several times (without deadlocking), and then release it by the first pthread_unlock(). > Both POSIX and Single UNIX Spec 2 allow this. SS2 allows that > you can map PTHREAD_MUTEX_DEFAULT to any one of the other > mutex types - it should be mapped to PTHREAD_MUTEX_ERRORCHECK. Ideally it probably should. > If at all possible, we should let the programmer know that he's > hit a deadlock condition. He won't hit a deadlock on the default type now. The default type doesn't really correspond to any of the SS2 types - I had to manually add a deadlock to support PTHREAD_MUTEX_NORMAL. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 06:29:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA04525 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 06:29:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from quark.ChrisBowman.com (crbowman.erols.com [209.122.47.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA04516 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 06:29:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from crb@ChrisBowman.com) Received: from fermion (fermion [10.0.1.2]) by quark.ChrisBowman.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA02123; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 09:55:38 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from crb@ChrisBowman.com) Message-Id: <199811291455.JAA02123@quark.ChrisBowman.com> X-Sender: crb@quark X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 09:28:11 -0500 To: Wayne Knowles From: "Christopher R. Bowman" Subject: Re: vnode_if.c wont compile - MORE INFO Cc: dennis@etinc.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 09:56 PM 11/29/98 +1300, Wayne Knowles wrote: > >At 03:55 PM 11/27/98 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >>> vnode_if.c:40: `vop_strategy_desc' undeclared here (not in a function) > >[stuff deleted] > >I get a similar problem if /usr/src/sys is NFS mounted onto a 3.0-current >server (while running 2.2.7R on the client). The only difference is that >the file is vnode_if.h If you look at vnode_if.h a page of zero's has >been dropped into the middle of it. Both files are generated by a script >as part of the Makefile - there is a good chance it could be related. > >The file is OK on the server, and if you touch the file on either the >server or the client the uncorrupted file reappears and the kernel build >completes. > >I plan to track it down further when I get spare time. > >Is your filesystem NFS mounted ? Does touch vnode_if.* fix the problem ? > >Wayne I have this exact problem, I didn't look into it more than to notice that the zeros were aligned on a 1K boundary, might have even been a page boundary. Both client and server were running 2.2.7 -------- Christopher R. Bowman crb@ChrisBowman.com http://www.ChrisBowman.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 06:31:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA04915 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 06:31:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pcnet1.pcnet.com (pcnet1.pcnet.com [204.213.232.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA04901; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 06:31:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: (from eischen@localhost) by pcnet1.pcnet.com (8.8.7/PCNet) id JAA22106; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 09:31:18 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 09:31:18 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Eischen Message-Id: <199811291431.JAA22106@pcnet1.pcnet.com> To: eischen@vigrid.com, eivind@yes.no Subject: Re: Thread locking (was Re: cvs commit: src/include pthread.h src/lib/libc_r/uthread uthread_mattr_kind_np.c uthread_mutex.c) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jb@FreeBSD.ORG, lists@tar.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Sat, Nov 28, 1998 at 09:31:16PM -0500, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > And can we also make a default mutex an error checking mutex? > > Not easily. The problem is that the default type of locks we've used > before are more forgiving - they e.g. allow a thread to lock a lock > several times (without deadlocking), and then release it by the first > pthread_unlock(). So what? The threads library is not fully POSIX compliant yet and has to change if it wants to achieve that. POSIX says that we return EDEADLK if we detect this condition (which we can and already do). Do we care more about backwards compatibility or more about POSIX compliance? I vote for strong and strict POSIX compliance (if my vote counts at all ;-). > > Both POSIX and Single UNIX Spec 2 allow this. SS2 allows that > > you can map PTHREAD_MUTEX_DEFAULT to any one of the other > > mutex types - it should be mapped to PTHREAD_MUTEX_ERRORCHECK. > > Ideally it probably should. > > > If at all possible, we should let the programmer know that he's > > hit a deadlock condition. > > He won't hit a deadlock on the default type now. The default type > doesn't really correspond to any of the SS2 types - I had to manually > add a deadlock to support PTHREAD_MUTEX_NORMAL. I mean that it should return EDEADLK, not that the application should actually deadlock. I realize SS2 PTHREAD_MUTEX_NORMAL _really_ has to deadlock the thread, which is why we'd probably never want to map the default mutex to this type. I'm just arguing that the default mutex shouldn't allow a thread to lock it several times - it should return EDEADLK on recursive lock attempts. Dan Eischen eischen@vigrid.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 07:07:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA07265 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 07:07:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA07258; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 07:07:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199811291507.HAA07258@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: tun interfaces not returned by SIOCGIFCONF ?? In-Reply-To: <199811290603.WAA27066@hub.freebsd.org> from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at "Nov 28, 98 10:03:07 pm" To: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 07:07:18 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > in this code snippit, i always call inet_ntoa() eventhough the argument > may no be an address but rather other data. > > code from nmap (printf()'s are my additions): > for (ifr = (struct ifreq *) pbuf; > ifr && *((char *) ifr) && ((char *) ifr) < pbuf + ifc.ifc_len; > ((*(char **) &ifr) += sizeof(ifr->ifr_name) + len)) { > sin = (struct sockaddr_in *) & ifr->ifr_addr; > printf("ifc_len: %d (currently at %u)\n", ifc.ifc_len, (char *)ifr - pbuf); > printf("trying: %s: %s\n", ifr->ifr_name, inet_ntoa(sin->sin_addr)); > if (sin->sin_addr.s_addr == addr->s_addr) { > /* > * Stevens does this in UNP, so it may be useful in > * some cases > */ > if ((p = strchr(ifr->ifr_name, ':'))) > *p = '\0'; > /* > * If an app gives me less than 64 bytes, they > * deserve to be overflowed! > */ > strncpy(dev, ifr->ifr_name, 63); > dev[63] = '\0'; > return 1; > } > } the bug in the above code snippit is "len is always the same value". the for loop increment must be set each time through the loop. i'll prepare a patch for the port of nmap-1.5.1 jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 07:14:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA07697 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 07:14:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA07689; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 07:14:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA07357; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:14:20 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id QAA08548; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:14:19 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981129161418.W9226@follo.net> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:14:18 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Daniel Eischen Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jb@FreeBSD.ORG, lists@tar.com Subject: Re: Thread locking (was Re: cvs commit: src/include pthread.h src/lib/libc_r/uthread uthread_mattr_kind_np.c uthread_mutex.c) References: <199811291431.JAA22106@pcnet1.pcnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199811291431.JAA22106@pcnet1.pcnet.com>; from Daniel Eischen on Sun, Nov 29, 1998 at 09:31:18AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Nov 29, 1998 at 09:31:18AM -0500, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > On Sat, Nov 28, 1998 at 09:31:16PM -0500, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > > And can we also make a default mutex an error checking mutex? > > > > Not easily. The problem is that the default type of locks we've used > > before are more forgiving - they e.g. allow a thread to lock a lock > > several times (without deadlocking), and then release it by the first > > pthread_unlock(). > > So what? It means that at least our own code has to be reviewed before making this change. > The threads library is not fully POSIX compliant yet and has to > change if it wants to achieve that. POSIX says that we return > EDEADLK if we detect this condition (which we can and already do). > Do we care more about backwards compatibility or more about POSIX > compliance? I vote for strong and strict POSIX compliance (if my > vote counts at all ;-). I'm in two minds about it. I don't like breaking compatibility, and I don't like not being conformant, and it really comes down to each individual case. The behaviour we have now seems to be conformant to SS2, at least, which IMO is more important than POSIX. I'm not the maintainer, anyway, so I don't consider it within my authority to break backwards compatibility. > > > If at all possible, we should let the programmer know that he's > > > hit a deadlock condition. > > > > He won't hit a deadlock on the default type now. The default type > > doesn't really correspond to any of the SS2 types - I had to manually > > add a deadlock to support PTHREAD_MUTEX_NORMAL. > > I mean that it should return EDEADLK, not that the application > should actually deadlock. > > I realize SS2 PTHREAD_MUTEX_NORMAL _really_ has to deadlock the > thread, which is why we'd probably never want to map the default > mutex to this type. I'm just arguing that the default mutex > shouldn't allow a thread to lock it several times - it should > return EDEADLK on recursive lock attempts. When I think about it, it probably wouldn't create more problems, as it will only create problems if somebody is checking the return value (otherwise it will work as it already does). I still consider the decision to be in John Birrells camp, however, Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 09:14:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA14099 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 09:14:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pcnet1.pcnet.com (pcnet1.pcnet.com [204.213.232.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA14075; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 09:14:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: (from eischen@localhost) by pcnet1.pcnet.com (8.8.7/PCNet) id MAA05445; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 12:14:11 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 12:14:11 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Eischen Message-Id: <199811291714.MAA05445@pcnet1.pcnet.com> To: eischen@vigrid.com, eivind@yes.no Subject: Re: Thread locking (was Re: cvs commit: src/include pthread.h src/lib/libc_r/uthread uthread_mattr_kind_np.c uthread_mutex.c) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jb@FreeBSD.ORG, lists@tar.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Sun, Nov 29, 1998 at 09:31:18AM -0500, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > The threads library is not fully POSIX compliant yet and has to > > change if it wants to achieve that. POSIX says that we return > > EDEADLK if we detect this condition (which we can and already do). > > Do we care more about backwards compatibility or more about POSIX > > compliance? I vote for strong and strict POSIX compliance (if my > > vote counts at all ;-). > > I'm in two minds about it. I don't like breaking compatibility, and I > don't like not being conformant, and it really comes down to each > individual case. The behaviour we have now seems to be conformant to > SS2, at least, which IMO is more important than POSIX. What does the P in Pthreads mean? Isn't SS2 based off an earlier rev (draft) of the POSIX spec? I would prefer POSIX compatibility over SS2 compatibility, but I think we can do both if we are smart about it. At least in this instance we can since SS2 allows us to map PTHREAD_MUTEX_DEFAULT to any other mutex type and PTHREAD_MUTEX_ERRORCHECK happens to be POSIX compliant. > I'm not the > maintainer, anyway, so I don't consider it within my authority to > break backwards compatibility. Good point. > When I think about it, it probably wouldn't create more problems, as > it will only create problems if somebody is checking the return value > (otherwise it will work as it already does). I still consider the > decision to be in John Birrells camp, however, OK Dan Eischen eischen@vigrid.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 12:01:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA27997 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 12:01:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA27985; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 12:01:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA10455; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 21:00:48 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id VAA09070; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 21:00:47 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981129210047.Z9226@follo.net> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 21:00:47 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Daniel Eischen Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jb@FreeBSD.ORG, lists@tar.com Subject: Re: Thread locking (was Re: cvs commit: src/include pthread.h src/lib/libc_r/uthread uthread_mattr_kind_np.c uthread_mutex.c) References: <199811291714.MAA05445@pcnet1.pcnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199811291714.MAA05445@pcnet1.pcnet.com>; from Daniel Eischen on Sun, Nov 29, 1998 at 12:14:11PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Nov 29, 1998 at 12:14:11PM -0500, Daniel Eischen wrote: > Eivind Eklund wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 29, 1998 at 09:31:18AM -0500, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > > The threads library is not fully POSIX compliant yet and has to > > > change if it wants to achieve that. POSIX says that we return > > > EDEADLK if we detect this condition (which we can and already do). > > > Do we care more about backwards compatibility or more about POSIX > > > compliance? I vote for strong and strict POSIX compliance (if my > > > vote counts at all ;-). > > > > I'm in two minds about it. I don't like breaking compatibility, and I > > don't like not being conformant, and it really comes down to each > > individual case. The behaviour we have now seems to be conformant to > > SS2, at least, which IMO is more important than POSIX. > > What does the P in Pthreads mean? Phenomenally stupid. Any standard that include locking and doesn't allow definition of recursive locks fall within this category. > Isn't SS2 based off an earlier rev (draft) of the POSIX spec? No - it is AFAIK a superset of the POSIX standard. It also require that if we detect the deadlock condition we should return EDEADLK - but we don't detect the case. Allowing a lock to be "re-aquired" by the same thread just falls out of the code. Another issue is that the standard isn't exactly internally consistent - it both require that a PTHREAD_MUTEX_NORMAL should deadlock if locked twice by the same thread, and that all deadlocks should return EDEADLK when detected. You _could_ construct this as 'PTHREAD_MUTEX_NORMAL should not detect deadlocks", but detecting deadlocks is the only way we can make it deadlock (and I consider dictating that it shouldn't detect is too much dictation of internal details, anyway). Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 13:30:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA05962 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 13:30:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05956; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 13:30:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA07740; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 08:00:41 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id IAA01864; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 08:00:37 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981130080037.A423@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 08:00:37 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: dyson@iquest.net Cc: wes@softweyr.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) References: <19981129183019.H456@freebie.lemis.com> <199811291429.JAA01054@y.dyson.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199811291429.JAA01054@y.dyson.net>; from John S. Dyson on Sun, Nov 29, 1998 at 09:29:58AM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [moved to -hackers] On Sunday, 29 November 1998 at 9:29:58 -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > Greg Lehey said: >> >> OK. The *idea* of run modes seems to make sense, and I wouldn't >> change the System V method on a system which had it, but how useful is >> it really? Consider: >> >> Run state Meaning BSD init >> 0 halt halt >> 1 single user shutdown >> 2 multi user, Whaat?? >> no network >> 3 multiuser (multiuser; stop single user) >> 4 undefined >> (most systems) can't see any equivalent on PCs >> 5 PROM monitor >> 6 reboot reboot >> >> Where's the important difference? > > Add additional packages, and see that BSD init ends up more > and more inadequate. I still don't see why. We have a method to run application startup and shutdown scripts already. Could you be more specific? >>> SysV init has an established set of standards for usage of >>> startup/shutdown files. It doesn't solve ALL problems, but moves >>> forward, other than just staying idle. >> >> Sure, but as I said, that's all a question of scripts. > > Also, it is all a question of C-code, Where? > but a framework enables better organization. However SYSV-init is > implemented, vendors do use it. I suppose there's one point there. But the only difference for installing under FreeBSD would be the name of the startup file. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 13:57:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA07812 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 13:57:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apogee.whack.org (apogee.whack.org [209.152.153.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07793; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 13:57:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andrew@whack.org) Received: from andrew by apogee.whack.org with local (Exim 2.05 #1) id 0zkEpF-0002Pu-00; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 13:56:17 -0800 Message-ID: <19981129135617.A9283@apogee.whack.org> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 13:56:17 -0800 From: Andrew To: questions@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: crt1.o [ELF] is broken in 3.0-release? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello all, Running Freebsd 3.0-release, there appears to be a bug in /usr/lib/crt1.o which will not allow one to compile an ELF gcc-2.8.1 from origional source or even install the port: 1. the port: (this is a really bogus error, BROKEN_ELF; gcc-2.8.1 compiles ELF binaries on other platforms) # make install ===> gcc-2.8.1 is broken for ELF: /usr/lib/aout/crt0.o: file not recognized: File format not recognized. # 2. compile from origional source: (this is what I really want to do) # make LANGUAGES=c ...... ./xgcc -B./ -DIN_GCC -g -I./include enquire.o -o enquire /usr/libexec/elf/ld: cannot open crt0.o: No such file or directory *** Error code 1 Stop. # 3. compile from origional source: (after either: a. symlink /usr/lib/crt0.o /usr/lib/crt1.o -or- b. editing /specs and replacing all occurences of crt0 -> crt1) # make LANGUAGES=c ...... ./xgcc -B./ -DIN_GCC -g -I./include enquire.o -o enquire /usr/libexec/elf/ld: warning: cannot find entry symbol start; defaulting to 080483d0 /usr/lib/crt1.o: In function `_start': /usr/lib/crt1.o(.text+0x49): undefined reference to `main' enquire.o: In function `overflow': /usr/build/gcc/gcc-2.8.1/./enquire.c(.text+0xd): undefined reference to `_signal' enquire.o: In function `setmode': /usr/build/gcc/gcc-2.8.1/./enquire.c(.text+0x57): undefined reference to `_(short, (void))' ...... /usr/build/gcc/gcc-2.8.1/enquire.c(.text+0xacb4): undefined reference to `_printf' enquire.o(.text+0xad05):/usr/build/gcc/gcc-2.8.1/enquire.c: more undefined references to `_printf' follow enquire.o: In function `__sputc': /usr/include/stdio.h(.text+0xd56d): undefined reference to `___swbuf' ./libgcc.a(__main.o): In function `__do_global_ctors': /usr/build/gcc/gcc-2.8.1/./libgcc2.c(.text+0x66): undefined reference to `_atexit' *** Error code 1 Stop. # Cordially, _____________________________________________ Andrew Perkins andrew@violet.org System Administrator 415.739.0540 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 14:01:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA08379 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 14:01:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lorax.ubergeeks.com (lorax.ubergeeks.com [206.205.41.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA08374 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 14:01:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by lorax.ubergeeks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA00964; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:00:00 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:00:00 -0500 (EST) From: ADRIAN Filipi-Martin Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: Greg Lehey cc: dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) In-Reply-To: <19981130080037.A423@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 30 Nov 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > [moved to -hackers] > > On Sunday, 29 November 1998 at 9:29:58 -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > > Greg Lehey said: > >> > >> OK. The *idea* of run modes seems to make sense, and I wouldn't > >> change the System V method on a system which had it, but how useful is > >> it really? Consider: > >> > >> Run state Meaning BSD init > >> 0 halt halt > >> 1 single user shutdown > >> 2 multi user, Whaat?? > >> no network > >> 3 multiuser (multiuser; stop single user) > >> 4 undefined > >> (most systems) can't see any equivalent on PCs > >> 5 PROM monitor > >> 6 reboot reboot Nooooo.... If we must have start/stop scripts, we don't need run levels. I believe run-levels encourage a lesser form of "reboot whenever there is a problem". People reach for the shot gun and try dropping to say level 2 and then returning to level 3. Along the way many innocent processes are stopped (work/effort/connections are lost) and restarted. Even worse, the problem may not be resolved. In my experience, it is typically one process that is having/causing problems. A HUP or a TERM with some other diagnostics is usually sufficient. This lack of fine control is my biggest grip with standard sysv start/stop scripts. If we had individual start/stop scripts for everything and then perhaps "grouped" start/stop scripts for say all of the NFS server daemons, it would help and be better than just bringing over the model lock, stock and barrel. I still don't understand why this has become an issue again. There is /usr/local/etc/rc.d. The scrtips are called with "start" and using rc.shutdown, you can make sure they are called with "stop". What more does a third party software vendor need? They certainly cannot care about how basic system functions are managed. Adrian -- [ adrian@ubergeeks.com -- Ubergeeks Consulting -- http://www.ubergeeks.com/ ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 14:19:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA09433 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 14:19:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua (KievglavArhit-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA09428 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 14:19:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA) Received: from gvinpin.grad.kiev.ua (root@gvinpin [10.0.0.32]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA26314; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 00:12:53 +0200 (EET) Received: from Shevchenko.Kiev.UA ([10.0.1.99]) by gvinpin.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA24769; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 00:17:27 +0200 Message-ID: <3661E443.5E392E32@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 00:18:11 +0000 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Filipi-Martin CC: Greg Lehey , dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG A I still don't understand why this has become an issue again. > There is /usr/local/etc/rc.d. The scrtips are called with "start" and > using rc.shutdown, you can make sure they are called with "stop". What > more does a third party software vendor need? They certainly cannot care > about how basic system functions are managed. > becouse services are depend from each other. for example, let you have database ans SNMP interface daemon for it. SNMP interface daemon start "after" databse, learm PID of database from pid-file of one. Now you want to restart database, you call start and stop scripts, and magically you SNMP interface don't work. (You can say, that this is bad practice, but really, each big software product have big set of kluges, as one) > > Adrian > -- > [ adrian@ubergeeks.com -- Ubergeeks Consulting -- http://www.ubergeeks.com/ ] > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 14:28:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA10181 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 14:28:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pcnet1.pcnet.com (pcnet1.pcnet.com [204.213.232.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA10149; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 14:28:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: (from eischen@localhost) by pcnet1.pcnet.com (8.8.7/PCNet) id RAA02934; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:27:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:27:58 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Eischen Message-Id: <199811292227.RAA02934@pcnet1.pcnet.com> To: eischen@vigrid.com, eivind@yes.no Subject: Re: Thread locking (was Re: cvs commit: src/include pthread.h src/lib/libc_r/uthread uthread_mattr_kind_np.c uthread_mutex.c) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jb@FreeBSD.ORG, lists@tar.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Sun, Nov 29, 1998 at 12:14:11PM -0500, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > Isn't SS2 based off an earlier rev (draft) of the POSIX spec? > > No - it is AFAIK a superset of the POSIX standard. It also require > that if we detect the deadlock condition we should return EDEADLK - > but we don't detect the case. Allowing a lock to be "re-aquired" by > the same thread just falls out of the code. This falls into "undefined behaviour" which is allowed by POSIX mutexes. But one could interpret "undefined behaviour" as allowing for an implementation that cannot check mutex ownership. Since we can easily check mutex ownership with the cost of a couple extra instructions, we should do it. > Another issue is that the standard isn't exactly internally consistent > - it both require that a PTHREAD_MUTEX_NORMAL should deadlock if > locked twice by the same thread, and that all deadlocks should return > EDEADLK when detected. You _could_ construct this as > 'PTHREAD_MUTEX_NORMAL should not detect deadlocks", but detecting > deadlocks is the only way we can make it deadlock (and I consider > dictating that it shouldn't detect is too much dictation of internal > details, anyway). I'm glad you brought this up because I was kind of wondering why you implemented a deadlock as an infinite loop. Why not simply add the mutex to the waiting threads queue and restrict unlocks on PTHREAD_MUTEX_NORMAL to only the thread that owns the lock? This effectively deadlocks the thread because noone can ever unlock the mutex. Doing it this way, you don't have to "detect" a deadlock condition ;-) Dan Eischen eischen@vigrid.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 14:38:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA10652 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 14:38:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA10595; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 14:37:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA08018; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:07:32 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id JAA00728; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:07:30 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981130090729.A456@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:07:29 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Andrew , questions@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: crt1.o [ELF] is broken in 3.0-release? References: <19981129135617.A9283@apogee.whack.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19981129135617.A9283@apogee.whack.org>; from Andrew on Sun, Nov 29, 1998 at 01:56:17PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sunday, 29 November 1998 at 13:56:17 -0800, Andrew wrote: > Hello all, > > Running Freebsd 3.0-release, there appears to be a bug in > /usr/lib/crt1.o which will not allow one to compile an ELF > gcc-2.8.1 from origional source or even install the port: > > 1. the port: (this is a really bogus error, BROKEN_ELF; gcc-2.8.1 compiles > ELF binaries on other platforms) BROKEN_ELF is trying to tell you something. In your language, it's saying ``this is a really bogus error, and we know about it''. > # make install > ===> gcc-2.8.1 is broken for ELF: /usr/lib/aout/crt0.o: file not recognized: File format not recognized. And in case you didn't notice before, it's telling you again. > 2. compile from origional source: (this is what I really want to do) > > # make LANGUAGES=c > ...... > ./xgcc -B./ -DIN_GCC -g -I./include enquire.o -o enquire > /usr/libexec/elf/ld: cannot open crt0.o: No such file or directory > *** Error code 1 > > Stop. > # > > 3. compile from origional source: (after either: a. symlink > /usr/lib/crt0.o /usr/lib/crt1.o -or- b. editing > /specs and replacing all occurences of crt0 -> crt1) > > # make LANGUAGES=c > ...... > ./xgcc -B./ -DIN_GCC -g -I./include enquire.o -o enquire > /usr/libexec/elf/ld: warning: cannot find entry symbol start; defaulting to 080483d0 > /usr/lib/crt1.o: In function `_start': > /usr/lib/crt1.o(.text+0x49): undefined reference to `main' > enquire.o: In function `overflow': > /usr/build/gcc/gcc-2.8.1/./enquire.c(.text+0xd): undefined reference to `_signal' > enquire.o: In function `setmode': > /usr/build/gcc/gcc-2.8.1/./enquire.c(.text+0x57): undefined reference to `_(short, (void))' > ...... > /usr/build/gcc/gcc-2.8.1/enquire.c(.text+0xacb4): undefined reference to `_printf' > enquire.o(.text+0xad05):/usr/build/gcc/gcc-2.8.1/enquire.c: more undefined references to `_printf' follow > enquire.o: In function `__sputc': > /usr/include/stdio.h(.text+0xd56d): undefined reference to `___swbuf' > ./libgcc.a(__main.o): In function `__do_global_ctors': > /usr/build/gcc/gcc-2.8.1/./libgcc2.c(.text+0x66): undefined reference to `_atexit' > *** Error code 1 This is probably a problem with the libraries, or possibly with the symbol naming, as I told you yesterday in a number of mail messages. There are two ways to address this problem: fix it yourself or wait for somebody else to fix it. Telling people what they already know is not productive. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 15:15:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA14087 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 15:15:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aaz.links.ru (aaz.links.ru [193.125.152.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA14081 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 15:15:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from babolo@aaz.links.ru) Received: (from babolo@localhost) by aaz.links.ru (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA15788; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 02:18:21 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from babolo) Message-Id: <199811292318.CAA15788@aaz.links.ru> Subject: Re: random number and primitive polynomial In-Reply-To: from "zhihuizhang" at "Nov 28, 98 10:21:56 pm" To: bf20761@binghamton.edu (zhihuizhang) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 02:18:21 +0300 (MSK) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Aleksandr A.Babaylov" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG zhihuizhang writes: > > Hi, I am now interested in how a truly random number is generated. The > source code is contained in file random_machdep.c. Can anyone tell me > where I can find good reference on how the primitive polynomial is related > to random number generation (i.e., its properties and role in a random > number generator). The art of computer programming Volume 2 Seminumerical Algorithms Donald E. Knuth Addicon-Wesley Publishing Company 1969 > By the way, I can not find where the file stdlib.h is located. According > to the manual, rand() are defined in it. I want to look at the source > code of rand() too (although it is said to be a bad random number > generator). > > Any help is appreciated. > > -------------------------------------------------- > | Zhihui Zhang, http://cs.binghamton.edu/~zzhang | > | Dept. of Computer Science, SUNY at Binghamton | > -------------------------------------------------- -- @BABOLO http://links.ru/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 15:23:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA14709 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 15:23:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from marvin.albury.net.au (marvin.albury.NET.AU [203.15.244.108]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA14704 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 15:23:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from josh2@marvin.albury.net.au) Received: (from josh2@localhost) by marvin.albury.net.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id KAA17562 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:23:19 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.1 [p0] on FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:02:49 +1100 (EST) From: Josh To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Help programming I/O, a driver? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi all. I have looked high and low (probably in the wrong place :-) but I can not find anything to help me. I want to figure out how to control I/O. I can start with the parallel port but the I want to be able to do the same thing with a custom card etc. I am refering to bit control of the port. I have a ADC-DAC card for the parallel port that I have written for under DOS but I would love to get it running under FreeBSD. I understand that this is a bit more difficult under *nix but it is possible. I am actually thinking I will have to write it as a driver but I really have no idea how to do that or indeed if that is the right thing to do. Any advice will be appreciated. TIA Josh ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Josh Date: 30-Nov-98 Time: 10:02:49 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 15:34:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA15738 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 15:34:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua (KievglavArhit-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA15730 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 15:34:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA) Received: from gvinpin.grad.kiev.ua (root@gvinpin [10.0.0.32]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA26389 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 01:29:00 +0200 (EET) Received: from Shevchenko.Kiev.UA ([10.0.1.99]) by gvinpin.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA26499 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 01:33:34 +0200 Message-ID: <3661F61A.356351D0@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 01:34:19 +0000 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Why SEMMAP don't need in tuning ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Why SEMMAP in sys/sem.h don't need tuning ? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 15:38:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA15967 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 15:38:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA15941; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 15:37:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA12662; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 00:37:39 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id AAA09853; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 00:37:39 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981130003738.E9226@follo.net> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 00:37:38 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Daniel Eischen Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jb@FreeBSD.ORG, lists@tar.com Subject: Re: Thread locking (was Re: cvs commit: src/include pthread.h src/lib/libc_r/uthread uthread_mattr_kind_np.c uthread_mutex.c) References: <199811292227.RAA02934@pcnet1.pcnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199811292227.RAA02934@pcnet1.pcnet.com>; from Daniel Eischen on Sun, Nov 29, 1998 at 05:27:58PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Nov 29, 1998 at 05:27:58PM -0500, Daniel Eischen wrote: > I'm glad you brought this up because I was kind of wondering why you > implemented a deadlock as an infinite loop. Why not simply add > the mutex to the waiting threads queue and restrict unlocks on > PTHREAD_MUTEX_NORMAL to only the thread that owns the lock? This > effectively deadlocks the thread because noone can ever unlock the > mutex. Doing it this way, you don't have to "detect" a deadlock > condition ;-) Simpler, more obvious code with less chance of me or some later change in the threads library screwing it up. Elegant code is code that reads straight forward and just does what it is supposed to ;-) Besides, I believe this lower the cost for non-deadlock cases, which don't need to check more than they already do (but I didn't check the code for this right now; I don't clearly remember if this was part of my evaluation. Main reason was obviousness.) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 15:44:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA16552 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 15:44:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua (KievglavArhit-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA16544 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 15:44:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA) Received: from gvinpin.grad.kiev.ua (root@gvinpin [10.0.0.32]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA26402 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 01:39:11 +0200 (EET) Received: from Shevchenko.Kiev.UA ([10.0.1.99]) by gvinpin.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA26735 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 01:43:44 +0200 Message-ID: <3661F87C.6C94AC92@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 01:44:29 +0000 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: why SHMALL can be tuned ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Why SHMALL can be tuned ? I think, that it must be constant (SHMMAXPGS) and must be not live in LINT. (Must I do send_pr ? ) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 16:10:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA20381 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:10:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (haiti-96.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA20375 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:10:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA69865; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:13:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:13:20 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Zepeda X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: Andrew cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: crt1.o [ELF] is broken in 3.0-release? In-Reply-To: <19981129135617.A9283@apogee.whack.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 29 Nov 1998, Andrew wrote: > Hello all, > > Running Freebsd 3.0-release, there appears to be a bug in > /usr/lib/crt1.o which will not allow one to compile an ELF > gcc-2.8.1 from origional source or even install the port: What target did you try to build for? ix86-unknown-freebsdelf works fine with egcs, which I just built from CVS today. AFAIK, this should work fine with gcc 2.8.x too, but if it doesn't you can always try egcs. zippy:/mnt/usr2/home/root/egcs/egcs/Objects#egcc -v Reading specs from /opt/egcs/lib/gcc-lib/i586-unknown-freebsdelf/egcs-2.92.23/specs gcc version egcs-2.92.23 19981126 (gcc2 ss-980609 experimental) - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 16:11:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA20439 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:11:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pcnet1.pcnet.com (pcnet1.pcnet.com [204.213.232.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA20420; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:10:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: (from eischen@localhost) by pcnet1.pcnet.com (8.8.7/PCNet) id TAA12159; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 19:10:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 19:10:34 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Eischen Message-Id: <199811300010.TAA12159@pcnet1.pcnet.com> To: eischen@vigrid.com, eivind@yes.no Subject: Re: Thread locking (was Re: cvs commit: src/include pthread.h src/lib/libc_r/uthread uthread_mattr_kind_np.c uthread_mutex.c) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jb@FreeBSD.ORG, lists@tar.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Sun, Nov 29, 1998 at 05:27:58PM -0500, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > I'm glad you brought this up because I was kind of wondering why you > > implemented a deadlock as an infinite loop. Why not simply add > > the mutex to the waiting threads queue and restrict unlocks on > > PTHREAD_MUTEX_NORMAL to only the thread that owns the lock? This > > effectively deadlocks the thread because noone can ever unlock the > > mutex. Doing it this way, you don't have to "detect" a deadlock > > condition ;-) > > Simpler, more obvious code with less chance of me or some later change > in the threads library screwing it up. Elegant code is code that > reads straight forward and just does what it is supposed to ;-) It also chews up process time that could be given to other threads. I'm implementing SCHED_FIFO and SCHED_RR and if a SCHED_FIFO thread ends up in this deadlock, then no other thread will run either. Hmm. If a SCHED_FIFO thread does deadlock, how should this affect the scheduling of other threads? Dan Eischen eischen@vigrid.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 16:13:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA20609 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:13:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA20602 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:13:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA21417; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:14:11 -0800 (PST) To: Alex Zepeda cc: Andrew , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: crt1.o [ELF] is broken in 3.0-release? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:13:20 PST." Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:14:10 -0800 Message-ID: <21413.912384850@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > zippy:/mnt/usr2/home/root/egcs/egcs/Objects#egcc -v Hey, that's my name! :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 16:16:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21312 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:16:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA21304 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:16:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 20574 invoked from network); 30 Nov 1998 00:16:41 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 1998 00:16:41 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA01844; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 19:16:40 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811300016.TAA01844@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) In-Reply-To: <19981130080037.A423@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Nov 30, 98 08:00:37 am" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 19:16:40 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey said: > > > > Add additional packages, and see that BSD init ends up more > > and more inadequate. > > I still don't see why. We have a method to run application startup > and shutdown scripts already. Could you be more specific? > Startup your network or database with init? > > >>> SysV init has an established set of standards for usage of > >>> startup/shutdown files. It doesn't solve ALL problems, but moves > >>> forward, other than just staying idle. > >> > >> Sure, but as I said, that's all a question of scripts. > > > > Also, it is all a question of C-code, > > Where? > SYSV-like init are available . > > > but a framework enables better organization. However SYSV-init is > > implemented, vendors do use it. > > I suppose there's one point there. But the only difference for > installing under FreeBSD would be the name of the startup file. > The more your system is nonstandard, the more it will be considered to be nonstandard. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 16:25:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21824 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:25:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA21810 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:24:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA08454; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:54:32 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id KAA01048; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:54:25 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981130105425.C831@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:54:25 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: dyson@iquest.net Cc: wes@softweyr.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) References: <19981130080037.A423@freebie.lemis.com> <199811300016.TAA01844@y.dyson.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199811300016.TAA01844@y.dyson.net>; from John S. Dyson on Sun, Nov 29, 1998 at 07:16:40PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sunday, 29 November 1998 at 19:16:40 -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > Greg Lehey said: >>> >>> Add additional packages, and see that BSD init ends up more >>> and more inadequate. >> >> I still don't see why. We have a method to run application startup >> and shutdown scripts already. Could you be more specific? > > Startup your network We do that already. > or database with init? Why not? >>>>> SysV init has an established set of standards for usage of >>>>> startup/shutdown files. It doesn't solve ALL problems, but moves >>>>> forward, other than just staying idle. >>>> >>>> Sure, but as I said, that's all a question of scripts. >>> >>> Also, it is all a question of C-code, >> >> Where? > > SYSV-like init are available . Ah, that's what you mean. My question was more ``what does it take to do this?''. >>> but a framework enables better organization. However SYSV-init is >>> implemented, vendors do use it. >> >> I suppose there's one point there. But the only difference for >> installing under FreeBSD would be the name of the startup file. > > The more your system is nonstandard, the more it will be considered > to be nonstandard. Fine, once we've defined ``standard''. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 16:47:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA24177 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:47:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA24168 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:47:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA08518; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:16:25 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id LAA01253; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:16:23 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981130111623.E831@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:16:23 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua, Adrian Filipi-Martin Cc: dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) References: <3661E443.5E392E32@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <3661E443.5E392E32@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA>; from Ruslan Shevchenko on Mon, Nov 30, 1998 at 12:18:11AM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Monday, 30 November 1998 at 0:18:11 +0000, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > A I still don't understand why this has become an issue again. > >> There is /usr/local/etc/rc.d. The scrtips are called with "start" and >> using rc.shutdown, you can make sure they are called with "stop". What >> more does a third party software vendor need? They certainly cannot care >> about how basic system functions are managed. > > becouse services are depend from each other. > > for example, let you have database ans SNMP interface daemon for it. > > SNMP interface daemon start "after" databse, learm PID of database > from pid-file of one. Now you want to restart database, you call > start and stop scripts, and magically you SNMP interface don't work. OK, but you can do this in System V as well. I still haven't seen anything that explains what System V init will do (and BSD init won't) that we need to implement automatic startup and stopping of subsystems. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 16:48:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA24528 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:48:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA24521 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:48:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA08528; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:18:21 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id LAA01264; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:18:20 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981130111820.F831@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:18:20 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Josh , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Help programming I/O, a driver? References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Josh on Mon, Nov 30, 1998 at 10:02:49AM +1100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Monday, 30 November 1998 at 10:02:49 +1100, Josh wrote: > Hi all. > I have looked high and low (probably in the wrong place :-) > but I can not find anything to help me. I want to figure out > how to control I/O. I can start with the parallel port but > the I want to be able to do the same thing with a custom > card etc. I am refering to bit control of the port. I have > a ADC-DAC card for the parallel port that I have written for > under DOS but I would love to get it running under FreeBSD. > > I understand that this is a bit more difficult under *nix > but it is possible. I am actually thinking I will have to > write it as a driver That's really the only way. That's what drivers are for. > but I really have no idea how to do that or indeed if that is the > right thing to do. Start with the driver writer's tutorial in the online handbook. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 16:57:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA25183 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:57:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thelab.hub.org (nat1001.mpoweredpc.net [142.177.191.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA25178 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:57:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA13108 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:56:12 -0400 (AST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:56:12 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: SIGPOLL? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi... I'm working on getting Cyrus' ACAP server up, and it appears to use a 'SIGPOLL' signal, which, under Solaris, is defined as: #define SIGPOLL 22 /* pollable event occured */ Looking through sys/signal.h, we don't appear to have anything similar, other then that our signal 22 is: #define SIGTTOU 22 /* like TTIN for output if (tp->t_local<OSTOP)*/ Which doesn't sound like a replacement to me... Anyone have an idea of what I want to do to fix/replace this? Thanks... Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 17:04:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26339 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:04:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua (KievglavArhit-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA26332 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:04:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA) Received: from gvinpin.grad.kiev.ua (root@gvinpin [10.0.0.32]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA26550; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 02:58:59 +0200 (EET) Received: from Shevchenko.Kiev.UA ([10.0.1.99]) by gvinpin.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA28669; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 03:03:34 +0200 Message-ID: <36620B32.74F76F43@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 03:04:18 +0000 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: rssh@grad.kiev.ua, Adrian Filipi-Martin , dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) References: <3661E443.5E392E32@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> <19981130111623.E831@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > OK, but you can do this in System V as well. I still haven't seen > anything that explains what System V init will do (and BSD init won't) > that we need to implement automatic startup and stopping of > subsystems. > on SYSV I can say init "run-level-less-than-database" init "normal-run-level" and sybsystems whill be closed and started up in stack order. And SNMP service from pevious example will work. I. e. in SYSV dependences between subsystem are implicity stored in /etc/rc dierectory tree. X depend from Y --> X must start after Y -> /etc/rc/X.rank > /etc/rc/Y.rank or if X.rank = Y.rank then S-X bigger than S-Y for FreeBSD, I think, ideally is to have explicit graph of dependences, in some form, where init-states is marks of nodes on it, and during init close all nodes which have rank biggest then argument. may be in each rc.X implement command 'depend_from' which show all programs, after restarting of ones is nessesory to restart X. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 17:06:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26476 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:06:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA26469 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:06:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA46022; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:09:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:09:25 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: The Hermit Hacker cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SIGPOLL? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 29 Nov 1998, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > Hi... > > I'm working on getting Cyrus' ACAP server up, and it appears to > use a 'SIGPOLL' signal, which, under Solaris, is defined as: > > #define SIGPOLL 22 /* pollable event occured */ > > Looking through sys/signal.h, we don't appear to have anything > similar, other then that our signal 22 is: > > #define SIGTTOU 22 /* like TTIN for output if (tp->t_local<OSTOP)*/ > > Which doesn't sound like a replacement to me... > > Anyone have an idea of what I want to do to fix/replace this? > > Thanks... I'm not sure what functionality you need, but have you looked at SIGIO? -Alfred > > Marc G. Fournier To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 17:10:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26822 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:10:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA26817 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:10:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 24314 invoked from network); 30 Nov 1998 01:10:33 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 1998 01:10:33 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA01950; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:10:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811300110.UAA01950@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) In-Reply-To: <36620B32.74F76F43@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> from Ruslan Shevchenko at "Nov 30, 98 03:04:18 am" To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:10:32 -0500 (EST) Cc: grog@lemis.com, rssh@grad.kiev.ua, adrian@ubergeeks.com, dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ruslan Shevchenko said: [Charset koi8-r unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > Greg Lehey wrote: > > > OK, but you can do this in System V as well. I still haven't seen > > anything that explains what System V init will do (and BSD init won't) > > that we need to implement automatic startup and stopping of > > subsystems. > > > > on SYSV I can say > init "run-level-less-than-database" > init "normal-run-level" > > and sybsystems whill be closed and started up in stack order. > > And SNMP service from pevious example will work. > > I. e. in SYSV dependences between subsystem are implicity stored in > /etc/rc dierectory tree. > X depend from Y --> X must start after Y -> > /etc/rc/X.rank > /etc/rc/Y.rank > or if X.rank = Y.rank then S-X bigger than S-Y > > for FreeBSD, I think, ideally is to have explicit graph of dependences, > in some form, where init-states is marks of nodes on it, and during > init close all nodes which have rank biggest then argument. > > may be in each rc.X implement command 'depend_from' which show > all programs, after restarting of ones is nessesory to restart X. > I agree: if it is possible to *improve* on or correct the SYSV scheme, then do so. I don't think that it is a good thing to ignore the advantages. For those who don't want or need the complexity or advantages of SYSV init, then they can pretty much ignore it. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 17:12:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27064 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:12:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ics.com (ics.com [140.186.40.192]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA27046; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:12:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kaleb@ics.com) Received: from sunoco (sunoco.ics.com [140.186.40.142]) by ics.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with SMTP id UAA06677; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:12:32 -0500 (EST) From: Kaleb Keithley Received: by sunoco (SMI-8.6/Spike-2.1) id UAA13585; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:12:31 -0500 Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:12:31 -0500 Message-Id: <199811300112.UAA13585@sunoco> Content-Type: text Apparently-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Apparently-To: questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm trying to set up the Columbia AppleTalk stuff on my 3.0-RELEASE machine. Mainly I want to run aufs so that the Mac can use some of the disk on my FreeBSD box. I have NETATALK and bpf enabled in the kernel. I'm curious about this comment in the uar README, which says: Notes for FreeBSD 2.0 users: There appears to be an error in the ethernet driver (at least in the ed0 version) which causes the IEEE 802.3 length bytes to be reversed. Is there any truth to this? I am using the ed driver for my NIC. I've looked at if_ed.c, but not knowing what to look for means I'm at a loss. With 802.3 disabled on the Mac I can ping the Mac just fine (and the Mac works fine) but as soon as I enable 802.3, when I ping the Mac, ping reports "sendto: Host is down". Thoughts? -- Kaleb S. KEITHLEY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 17:16:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27506 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:16:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA27475 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:16:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 27643 invoked from network); 30 Nov 1998 01:15:49 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 1998 01:15:49 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA01966; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:15:48 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811300115.UAA01966@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) In-Reply-To: <19981130105425.C831@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Nov 30, 98 10:54:25 am" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:15:48 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey said: > On Sunday, 29 November 1998 at 19:16:40 -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > > Greg Lehey said: > >>> > >>> Add additional packages, and see that BSD init ends up more > >>> and more inadequate. > >> > >> I still don't see why. We have a method to run application startup > >> and shutdown scripts already. Could you be more specific? > > > > Startup your network > > We do that already. > How's about shutdown the network or database also with init. SYSV init can already afford it. If better or finer control is needed, the SYSV init is very close to the goal. > > > or database with init? > > Why not? > At least with SYSV init you have selective control over the subsystems that you want to mess with. > > >>>>> SysV init has an established set of standards for usage of > >>>>> startup/shutdown files. It doesn't solve ALL problems, but moves > >>>>> forward, other than just staying idle. > >>>> > >>>> Sure, but as I said, that's all a question of scripts. > >>> > >>> Also, it is all a question of C-code, > >> > >> Where? > > > > SYSV-like init are available . > > Ah, that's what you mean. My question was more ``what does it take to > do this?''. > The already available SYSV-like inits. No sense in reinventing the world. > > >>> but a framework enables better organization. However SYSV-init is > >>> implemented, vendors do use it. > >> > >> I suppose there's one point there. But the only difference for > >> installing under FreeBSD would be the name of the startup file. > > > > The more your system is nonstandard, the more it will be considered > > to be nonstandard. > > Fine, once we've defined ``standard''. > SYSV. The world already has too many self-defined standards. NIH springs to mind. If the existant SYSV inits need some polishing or a minor amount of re-enginnering, and perhaps a formal policy needs to be created, then so be it. Cobbling together yet another hack scheme seems to be wasted effort and obfuscation. If SYSV init is missing some capabilities, then add them or clean that up. FreeBSD's init is very very simple, but simpler than it should be. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 17:22:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA28054 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:22:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA28047 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:21:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA08693; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:50:45 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id LAA01338; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:50:39 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981130115038.J831@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:50:38 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: dyson@iquest.net Cc: wes@softweyr.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) References: <19981130105425.C831@freebie.lemis.com> <199811300115.UAA01966@y.dyson.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199811300115.UAA01966@y.dyson.net>; from John S. Dyson on Sun, Nov 29, 1998 at 08:15:48PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sunday, 29 November 1998 at 20:15:48 -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > Greg Lehey said: >> On Sunday, 29 November 1998 at 19:16:40 -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: >>> Greg Lehey said: >>>>> >>>>> Add additional packages, and see that BSD init ends up more >>>>> and more inadequate. >>>> >>>> I still don't see why. We have a method to run application startup >>>> and shutdown scripts already. Could you be more specific? >>> >>> Startup your network >> >> We do that already. > > How's about shutdown the network or database also with init. SYSV > init can already afford it. If better or finer control is needed, > the SYSV init is very close to the goal. Sure. Just modify /etc/rc.shutdown to run shutdown scripts from a directory. Call it /etc/rc3.d if you like. >>> or database with init? >> >> Why not? > > At least with SYSV init you have selective control over the subsystems > that you want to mess with. To the point that you know where the startup and shutdown scripts are. As has been pointed out, there can be dependencies which make it dangerous just to run one of them out of sequence. >>>>>>> SysV init has an established set of standards for usage of >>>>>>> startup/shutdown files. It doesn't solve ALL problems, but moves >>>>>>> forward, other than just staying idle. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sure, but as I said, that's all a question of scripts. >>>>> >>>>> Also, it is all a question of C-code, >>>> >>>> Where? >>> >>> SYSV-like init are available . >> >> Ah, that's what you mean. My question was more ``what does it take to >> do this?''. > > The already available SYSV-like inits. No sense in reinventing the > world. We already have an init which can do the job. No sense in reinventing the world. >>>>> but a framework enables better organization. However SYSV-init is >>>>> implemented, vendors do use it. >>>> >>>> I suppose there's one point there. But the only difference for >>>> installing under FreeBSD would be the name of the startup file. >>> >>> The more your system is nonstandard, the more it will be considered >>> to be nonstandard. >> >> Fine, once we've defined ``standard''. > > SYSV. The world already has too many self-defined standards. NIH > springs to mind. Hmm. OK, I'll let that one ride. What does POSIX.1 say? > If the existant SYSV inits need some polishing or a minor amount of > re-enginnering, and perhaps a formal policy needs to be created, then > so be it. Cobbling together yet another hack scheme seems to be wasted > effort and obfuscation. I don't seem to be coming across. FreeBSD init already has everything that we need to do this. > If SYSV init is missing some capabilities, then add them or clean > that up. FreeBSD's init is very very simple, but simpler than it > should be. Again, where's the missing functiionality? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 17:51:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00762 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:51:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA00751 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:51:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 18521 invoked from network); 30 Nov 1998 01:50:51 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 1998 01:50:51 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA00283; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:50:51 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811300150.UAA00283@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) In-Reply-To: <19981130115038.J831@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Nov 30, 98 11:50:38 am" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:50:51 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey said: > > > > The already available SYSV-like inits. No sense in reinventing the > > world. > > We already have an init which can do the job. No sense in reinventing > the world. > But FreeBSD init is not the standard, and the modified or enhanced usage of it is not the standard. If it is the "FreeBSD" standard, it doesn't make it THE standard. I am suggesting the FreeBSD standard be more in line with the rest of the world. Arguing technical merits simply degrade into "you can do it in perl or C." SYSV init is pretty much a superset of FreeBSD init, so there is really no significant additional overhead. SYSV init MIGHT even be a proper superset of FreeBSD init. > > > > SYSV. The world already has too many self-defined standards. NIH > > springs to mind. > > Hmm. OK, I'll let that one ride. What does POSIX.1 say? > Hmm... What does Linux and SYSV do? Of course there are some Linux distributions that don't use standard versions of init, but there are those who do also. I am suggesting the use of SYSV style init, which is what add-on software vendors tend to expect. (Comparing with the other *BSD's don't appeal to software vendors needs.) > > > If the existant SYSV inits need some polishing or a minor amount of > > re-enginnering, and perhaps a formal policy needs to be created, then > > so be it. Cobbling together yet another hack scheme seems to be wasted > > effort and obfuscation. > > I don't seem to be coming across. FreeBSD init already has everything > that we need to do this. > telinit 4. I guess you can simulate telinit 4, but that requires more on-site hacking. I am trying to suggest that a commonly used standard feature should be supported by FreeBSD. Alternative hacks need not apply, unless they are compatible. I guess I don't care if the init is a SYSV init, if it is nearly identical in functionality, and looks the same to the vendors and users. > > If SYSV init is missing some capabilities, then add them or clean > > that up. FreeBSD's init is very very simple, but simpler than it > > should be. > > Again, where's the missing functiionality? > If you hack around it, then it doesn't have much missing functionality. (reducing to the absurd:) Of course, where is the missing functionality by programming everything in binary, with toggle switches? I can even visualize an X windows display by (x,y) coordinates and the information content, but that is not the same experience. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Nov 29 21:02:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA16912 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 21:02:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lorax.ubergeeks.com (lorax.ubergeeks.com [206.205.41.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA16899 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 21:02:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by lorax.ubergeeks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA01741; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 00:01:16 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 00:01:16 -0500 (EST) From: ADRIAN Filipi-Martin Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua cc: Greg Lehey , dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) In-Reply-To: <36620B32.74F76F43@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 30 Nov 1998, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: > > > OK, but you can do this in System V as well. I still haven't seen > > anything that explains what System V init will do (and BSD init won't) > > that we need to implement automatic startup and stopping of > > subsystems. > > > > on SYSV I can say > init "run-level-less-than-database" > init "normal-run-level" How many run-levels are you proposing? There are only 7 standard ones, AFIK. I cannot really see adding runlevels for each type of subsystem a practicle. > I. e. in SYSV dependences between subsystem are implicity stored in > /etc/rc dierectory tree. > X depend from Y --> X must start after Y -> > /etc/rc/X.rank > /etc/rc/Y.rank > or if X.rank = Y.rank then S-X bigger than S-Y Every implementation I have see so far actually uses alpha-numeric ordering. Things being implicit and scattered in varions directories is one reason I prefer the simpler, cohesive BSD rc's. > for FreeBSD, I think, ideally is to have explicit graph of dependences, > in some form, where init-states is marks of nodes on it, and during > init close all nodes which have rank biggest then argument. > > may be in each rc.X implement command 'depend_from' which show > all programs, after restarting of ones is nessesory to restart X. I'm not really sure this sort of dynamic behavior would really be useful. Systems tend to all boot in the same basic sequence, with soe skipping certian subsystems that are not needed. Adrian -- [ adrian@ubergeeks.com -- Ubergeeks Consulting -- http://www.ubergeeks.com/ ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 03:32:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA16351 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 03:32:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ics.com (ics.com [140.186.40.192]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA16346; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 03:32:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kaleb@ics.com) Received: from sunoco (sunoco.ics.com [140.186.40.142]) by ics.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with SMTP id GAA24138; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 06:32:26 -0500 (EST) From: Kaleb Keithley Received: by sunoco (SMI-8.6/Spike-2.1) id GAA21292; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 06:32:26 -0500 Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 06:32:26 -0500 Message-Id: <199811301132.GAA21292@sunoco> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: 802.3 enabled on a Mac results in 'Host is down' on FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG (Second time, this time let's see if the Subject: sticks to the message) I'm trying to set up the Columbia AppleTalk stuff on my 3.0-RELEASE machine. Mainly I want to run aufs so that the Mac can use some of the disk on my FreeBSD box. I have NETATALK and bpf enabled in the kernel. I'm curious about this comment in the uar README, which says: Notes for FreeBSD 2.0 users: There appears to be an error in the ethernet driver (at least in the ed0 version) which causes the IEEE 802.3 length bytes to be reversed. Is there any truth to this? I am using the ed driver for my NIC. I've looked at if_ed.c, but not knowing what to look for means I'm at a loss. With 802.3 disabled on the Mac I can ping the Mac just fine (and the Mac works fine) but as soon as I enable 802.3, when I ping the Mac, ping reports "sendto: Host is down". Thoughts? (I'm going to take Joe Marcus Clarke's advice and try the netatalk port but I'm still curious about this.) -- Kaleb S. KEITHLEY To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 05:04:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA23677 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 05:04:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA23672 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 05:04:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA01040; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:04:16 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA11803; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:04:09 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981130140408.F9226@follo.net> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:04:08 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua, Greg Lehey Cc: Adrian Filipi-Martin , dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) References: <3661E443.5E392E32@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> <19981130111623.E831@freebie.lemis.com> <36620B32.74F76F43@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <36620B32.74F76F43@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA>; from Ruslan Shevchenko on Mon, Nov 30, 1998 at 03:04:18AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Nov 30, 1998 at 03:04:18AM +0000, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > for FreeBSD, I think, ideally is to have explicit graph of dependences, > in some form, where init-states is marks of nodes on it, and during > init close all nodes which have rank biggest then argument. I posted code to do this a week ago. http://www.freebsd.org/~eivind/newrc.tar.gz This include a (somewhat raw) rewrite of the functionality in rc to the new scheme. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 05:14:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA24470 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 05:14:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA24465 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 05:14:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from smtp1.vnet.net (smtp1.vnet.net [166.82.1.31]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA11757 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 05:14:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by smtp1.vnet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA19710 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 08:13:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes.dignus.com [10.0.0.3]) by dignus.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA02001 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 08:54:05 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.9.1/8.6.9) id IAA00460 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 08:14:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 08:14:17 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199811301314.IAA00460@lakes.dignus.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: AHA 1542 and 3.0-RELEASE? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It seems my AHA 1542 no longer works with 3.0-RELEASE; with the distributed kernel or a rebuilt one... I seem to recall someone mentioning this, and that it was some kind of config issue - or something simple. But - I don't believe the details were given. Anyway - can someone point me to how to get an Adaptect 1542 working with 3.0-RELEASE? - Thanks - - Dave Rivers - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 05:58:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA28782 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 05:58:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA28773 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 05:58:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA04008; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:58:04 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA12151; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:58:03 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981130145803.I9226@follo.net> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:58:03 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Adrian Filipi-Martin , rssh@grad.kiev.ua Cc: Greg Lehey , dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) References: <36620B32.74F76F43@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from ADRIAN Filipi-Martin on Mon, Nov 30, 1998 at 12:01:16AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Nov 30, 1998 at 12:01:16AM -0500, ADRIAN Filipi-Martin wrote: > > for FreeBSD, I think, ideally is to have explicit graph of dependences, > > in some form, where init-states is marks of nodes on it, and during > > init close all nodes which have rank biggest then argument. > > > > may be in each rc.X implement command 'depend_from' which show > > all programs, after restarting of ones is nessesory to restart X. > > I'm not really sure this sort of dynamic behavior would really be > useful. Systems tend to all boot in the same basic sequence, with soe > skipping certian subsystems that are not needed. The clue is IMHO not really the ability to switch a machine to different runstates and define runstates easily. That's just icing - useful in some contexts, very neat, but not so important that we couldn't live without it (and have lived well without it, so far). What I want is the ability to gracefully have 3rd party software be added to the system, being able to replace system services, and be administered like it was always an integrated part. The SysV approach ("symlink hell" and "let's play mix-the-os-and-the-apps") is not really a good solution to this. Those people that have managed SysV style boxes (and I never have) tell me you regularly have to re-number a bunch of scripts because you're out of slots to get the order you want. Besides, the SysV approach is a de-nomralization - it loose the information on what has to run before what, and just store the final order. Computing the final order from a normalized representation is cheap, and it allow replacements to indicate exactly how they are to run. Overall, it seems (to me) to be a better infrastructure. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 06:57:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA05037 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 06:57:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from citadel.cdsec.com (citadel.cdsec.com [192.96.22.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA05022 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 06:57:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gram@cdsec.com) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by citadel.cdsec.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) id QAA06663 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 16:57:25 +0200 (SAST) Received: by citadel via recvmail id 6599; Mon Nov 30 16:56:28 1998 From: Graham Wheeler Message-Id: <199811301505.RAA07501@cdsec.com> Subject: Documentation on man page macros To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 17:05:53 +0200 (SAT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25-h4.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi folks Does anyone know where I can find documentation on the macros used in manual pages? My specific problem is how to put a: #include "file" as opposed to: #include in the synopsis section, but it would help a lot to find documentation on the full set of macros for future reference. -- Dr Graham Wheeler E-mail: gram@cdsec.com Citadel Data Security Phone: +27(21)23-6065/6/7 Internet/Intranet Network Specialists Mobile: +27(83)253-9864 Firewalls/Virtual Private Networks Fax: +27(21)24-3656 Data Security Products WWW: http://www.cdsec.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 07:08:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA06280 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 07:08:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from samizdat.uucom.com (samizdat.uucom.com [198.202.217.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA06274 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 07:08:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cshenton@uucom.com) Received: (from cshenton@localhost) by samizdat.uucom.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id KAA18603; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:08:31 -0500 To: Mike Smith Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.7 on K6/2, SCSI ncr0 hangs/aborts at boot, then recovers References: <199811260524.VAA00686@dingo.cdrom.com> From: Chris Shenton Date: 30 Nov 1998 10:08:31 -0500 In-Reply-To: Mike Smith's message of Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:24:31 -0800 Message-ID: <86yaotgqvk.fsf@samizdat.uucom.com> Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith writes: > When you say "in a sketchy way", do you mean that the system is working > OK from this point on, or are there other problems? Yeah, it seems to be fine after it completes the boot process. > Different code talking to the device; the bootstrap uses the BIOS, > while the kernel uses its own driver. It looks like the NCR part is > left in a funny state that takes a restart (several?) to recover from. Is there anything I can/should enable to track this down? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 07:10:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA06686 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 07:10:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA06680 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 07:10:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 25072 invoked from network); 30 Nov 1998 15:10:34 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 1998 15:10:34 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA02669; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:10:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811301510.KAA02669@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) In-Reply-To: <19981130145803.I9226@follo.net> from Eivind Eklund at "Nov 30, 98 02:58:03 pm" To: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:10:32 -0500 (EST) Cc: adrian@ubergeeks.com, rssh@grad.kiev.ua, grog@lemis.com, dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Eivind Eklund said: > > The SysV approach ("symlink hell" and "let's play > mix-the-os-and-the-apps") is not really a good solution to this. > Those people that have managed SysV style boxes (and I never have) > tell me you regularly have to re-number a bunch of scripts because > you're out of slots to get the order you want. Besides, the SysV > approach is a de-nomralization - it loose the information on what has > to run before what, and just store the final order. Computing the > final order from a normalized representation is cheap, and it allow > replacements to indicate exactly how they are to run. Overall, it > seems (to me) to be a better infrastructure. > The problem with the current structure is the single file (or small group of single files) that are not easily seperable. The default BSD configuration is pretty much a monolithic morass. I don't like a terrible morass of multiple files either. However, the current argument is similar to structured programming vs. excessive goto programming (or programming in traditional, non structured basic.) As released, the monolithic scheme is okay, but systems don't stay the way that they are when released from an OS vendor. With a proper structure, there is flexibility. The current rc setup isn't on the surface very flexible and is overly monolithic. Additionally, the more that "special tweaks" need to be done for a software port, the more there is cost for support of an OS. IMO, it is best to look like a predominant market player. Purely technical discussions end up being continually tweaked and tuned. I am suggesting a normalization to a market "standard." On the technical merits, this discussion can last forever, because there are lots and lots of technical solutions. There is the /usr/local/etc/rc.d thing, but that is a superficial attempt to look similar to the "standard", but doesn't really perform the functions of it. I suspect that a "really nice" rc scheme could be layered on top of the "standard" scheme, just like a "really nice" rc scheme could be layered on top of the BSD scheme. The question is, just why not be compatible? -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 07:12:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA06779 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 07:12:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA06762 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 07:11:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (localhost.rwwa.com [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA13684; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:11:22 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from witr@rwwa.com) Message-Id: <199811301511.KAA13684@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Mike Smith cc: Florin Nicolescu , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD-hackers) Subject: Re: multiple keyboard support In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 27 Nov 1998 09:39:57 PST." <199811271739.JAA03231@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:11:22 -0500 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Along the same lines, does anyone know of a "keyboard eliminator" or a "dummy keyboard" that will allow me to make headless systems with motherboards who's bioses insist on having a keyboard to boot? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 07:39:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA09032 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 07:39:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mamba-e.gsfc.nasa.gov (mamba-e.gsfc.nasa.gov [128.183.166.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA09027 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 07:39:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from uhl@mamba-e.gsfc.nasa.gov) Received: (from uhl@localhost) by mamba-e.gsfc.nasa.gov (8.8.5/8.8.4) id KAA29406; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:39:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:39:34 -0500 (EST) From: George Uhl Message-Id: <199811301539.KAA29406@mamba-e.gsfc.nasa.gov> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, ulf@Alameda.net Subject: Re: Packet/traffic shapper ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-MD5: Ergi3xbazmUWIjeKCdD7Pg== Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ALTQ and dummynet. I've used ALTQ but not dummynet. George Uhl > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 10 02:25 EDT 1998 > Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 23:06:28 -0700 > From: Ulf Zimmermann > To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Packet/traffic shapper ? > Mime-Version: 1.0 > X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE > X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > What software solutions for FreeBSD do we currently have available ? > > -- > Regards, Ulf. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 > Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 07:51:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA10042 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 07:51:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA10035 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 07:51:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA18915; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 08:52:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <3662BF23.613FB80D@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 08:52:03 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Filipi-Martin CC: Greg Lehey , dyson@iquest.net, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ADRIAN Filipi-Martin wrote: > > I still don't understand why this has become an issue again. > There is /usr/local/etc/rc.d. The scrtips are called with "start" and > using rc.shutdown, you can make sure they are called with "stop". What > more does a third party software vendor need? They certainly cannot care > about how basic system functions are managed. I realized this over the weekend, too. Perhaps symlinks from /etc/init.d and /etc/rc[1-6].d -> /usr/local/etc/rc.d? ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 08:36:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA12980 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 08:36:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA12975 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 08:36:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 9318 invoked from network); 30 Nov 1998 16:36:22 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 1998 16:36:22 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA02843; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:36:17 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811301636.LAA02843@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) In-Reply-To: <3662BF23.613FB80D@softweyr.com> from Wes Peters at "Nov 30, 98 08:52:03 am" To: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:36:17 -0500 (EST) Cc: adrian@ubergeeks.com, grog@lemis.com, dyson@iquest.net, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters said: > ADRIAN Filipi-Martin wrote: > > > > I still don't understand why this has become an issue again. > > There is /usr/local/etc/rc.d. The scrtips are called with "start" and > > using rc.shutdown, you can make sure they are called with "stop". What > > more does a third party software vendor need? They certainly cannot care > > about how basic system functions are managed. > > I realized this over the weekend, too. Perhaps symlinks from /etc/init.d > and /etc/rc[1-6].d -> /usr/local/etc/rc.d? ;^) > The current "rc" components are monolithic, and not a good general solution. The "rc.conf" is helpful, and covers alot of general cases, but a better framework would support the "broad brush" rc.conf, and also a more modular "rc.d" scheme. Runlevels and/or runmodes are also valuable. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 08:40:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA13583 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 08:40:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA13572 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 08:40:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA06599; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 16:58:03 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id QAA12626; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 16:55:12 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981130165346.N9226@follo.net> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 16:53:46 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: dyson@iquest.net Cc: adrian@ubergeeks.com, rssh@grad.kiev.ua, grog@lemis.com, wes@softweyr.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) References: <19981130145803.I9226@follo.net> <199811301510.KAA02669@y.dyson.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199811301510.KAA02669@y.dyson.net>; from John S. Dyson on Mon, Nov 30, 1998 at 10:10:32AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Nov 30, 1998 at 10:10:32AM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > With a proper structure, there is flexibility. The current rc > setup isn't on the surface very flexible and is overly monolithic. > Additionally, the more that "special tweaks" need to be done for a > software port, the more there is cost for support of an OS. IMO, it > is best to look like a predominant market player. Purely technical > discussions end up being continually tweaked and tuned. I am suggesting > a normalization to a market "standard." On the technical merits, this > discussion can last forever, because there are lots and lots of > technical solutions. > > There is the /usr/local/etc/rc.d thing, but that is a superficial > attempt to look similar to the "standard", but doesn't really perform > the functions of it. I suspect that a "really nice" rc scheme could > be layered on top of the "standard" scheme, just like a "really nice" > rc scheme could be layered on top of the BSD scheme. The question is, > just why not be compatible? I'm in favour of compatible. I'm not sure if this require us to bring in the bad sides of the SysV system. I suspect it would be possible to create a 'compatibility layer' that allow standard installation of SysV-ported software, but still has a technically better scheme for those that want to interface fully with FreeBSD. It would delegate 'simple ports' to be a sort of second class citizens, not giving them full flexibility, but still giving them about the flexibility they have under SysV. However, I don't really know the details of how the different SysV implementations of the init scheme is. If somebody has a reference to the spec or to a description of each of the significant implementations, this would make it possible to see what could be implemented. Eivind, who really believe this discussion belong in freebsd-arch (which is now open and moderated). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 09:18:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA16832 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:18:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA16826 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:18:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA15632; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:18:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd015592; Mon Nov 30 10:18:11 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA08800; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:17:58 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199811301717.KAA08800@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) To: adrian@ubergeeks.com Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 17:17:58 +0000 (GMT) Cc: grog@lemis.com, dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "ADRIAN Filipi-Martin" at Nov 29, 98 05:00:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Nooooo.... If we must have start/stop scripts, we don't need run > levels. I believe run-levels encourage a lesser form of "reboot whenever > there is a problem". Actually, they encourage a lesser form of "reboot when a reboot is necessary". 8-). > This lack of fine control is my biggest grip with standard sysv > start/stop scripts. If we had individual start/stop scripts for > everything and then perhaps "grouped" start/stop scripts for say all of > the NFS server daemons, it would help and be better than just bringing > over the model lock, stock and barrel. See Elvind's code... > I still don't understand why this has become an issue again. Because the rc.d scripts are part of the IBCS2 standard run environment, and required for the IBCS2 compliance of the emulation. And Linux compliance of the Linux emulation. And Solaris compliance of the Solaris Emulation. Etc. > What more does a third party software vendor need? The freedom to avoid having to press FreeBSD specific CDROM bits onto pieces of plastic. Compliance with documented standards (no, BSD rc files don't count as "standard"). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 09:24:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA17407 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:24:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA17402 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:24:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA18422; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:24:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd018390; Mon Nov 30 10:23:57 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA09125; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:23:52 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199811301723.KAA09125@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) To: adrian@ubergeeks.com Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 17:23:52 +0000 (GMT) Cc: rssh@grad.kiev.ua, grog@lemis.com, dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "ADRIAN Filipi-Martin" at Nov 30, 98 00:01:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > How many run-levels are you proposing? There are only 7 standard > ones, AFIK. I cannot really see adding runlevels for each type of > subsystem a practicle. Infinity plus one? Actually, 2^(number of services) would be nice, too. Then I could specify service clusters. Of course, I'd prefer to have service clusters called out as a group using a script, but if you really want to discuss the validity of run states/levels, there are those of us who'll oblige you. > > I. e. in SYSV dependences between subsystem are implicity stored in > > /etc/rc dierectory tree. > > X depend from Y --> X must start after Y -> > > /etc/rc/X.rank > /etc/rc/Y.rank > > or if X.rank = Y.rank then S-X bigger than S-Y > > Every implementation I have see so far actually uses alpha-numeric > ordering. Things being implicit and scattered in varions directories is > one reason I prefer the simpler, cohesive BSD rc's. Last time I looked, the ASCII collation sequence order was explicit, not implicit... > > for FreeBSD, I think, ideally is to have explicit graph of dependences, > > in some form, where init-states is marks of nodes on it, and during > > init close all nodes which have rank biggest then argument. > > > > may be in each rc.X implement command 'depend_from' which show > > all programs, after restarting of ones is nessesory to restart X. > > I'm not really sure this sort of dynamic behavior would really be > useful. Systems tend to all boot in the same basic sequence, with soe > skipping certian subsystems that are not needed. Then don't use it. No one is forcing you, personally, away from the standard BSD all/single-user set. If you don't need a state where the system is up, but NFS isn't being served because the system is being backed up, then don't put the system into that state. Pretty simple. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 10:29:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA24764 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:29:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA24754 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:29:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 7460 invoked from network); 30 Nov 1998 18:29:30 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 1998 18:29:30 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA03045; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:29:21 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811301829.NAA03045@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) In-Reply-To: <19981130165346.N9226@follo.net> from Eivind Eklund at "Nov 30, 98 04:53:46 pm" To: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:29:21 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, adrian@ubergeeks.com, rssh@grad.kiev.ua, grog@lemis.com, wes@softweyr.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Eivind Eklund said: > On Mon, Nov 30, 1998 at 10:10:32AM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > > With a proper structure, there is flexibility. The current rc > > setup isn't on the surface very flexible and is overly monolithic. > > Additionally, the more that "special tweaks" need to be done for a > > software port, the more there is cost for support of an OS. IMO, it > > is best to look like a predominant market player. Purely technical > > discussions end up being continually tweaked and tuned. I am suggesting > > a normalization to a market "standard." On the technical merits, this > > discussion can last forever, because there are lots and lots of > > technical solutions. > > > > There is the /usr/local/etc/rc.d thing, but that is a superficial > > attempt to look similar to the "standard", but doesn't really perform > > the functions of it. I suspect that a "really nice" rc scheme could > > be layered on top of the "standard" scheme, just like a "really nice" > > rc scheme could be layered on top of the BSD scheme. The question is, > > just why not be compatible? > > I'm in favour of compatible. I'm not sure if this require us to bring > in the bad sides of the SysV system. > IMO, SYSV init isn't one of the "bad" things about SYSV. If anything, it is just not finished (shipped before it was fully thought out.) I suspect that a reasonable compromise is to implement a SYSV style init correctly, providing SYSV compatibility, with the desired flexibility and functionality that we would all prefer. I truly believe that the current BSD scheme is more of a "punt" as opposed to a superior solution. Making a choice to stay with the limited BSD init scheme because the SYSV scheme has it's own problems doesn't solve the problems of either scheme. The SYSV scheme probably mechanically solves the problems better, but can be a mess. The BSD scheme is a problem because of it's monolithic and almost non-layered structure. These technical arguments really beg the issue of compatibility though. Ignoring technical arguments AGAIN, SYSV (and Linux) compatilbility are desirable for packaging and porting reasons. There are lots of things that one might have to do for compatibility reasons (limited 32bit disk file addressing in the Linux emulation), however, if the compatibile choice isn't made, then problems ensue. It would be very bad to say something like "the linux 32bit file offsets are bogus, so we will unilaterally make the offsets 64bit and break compatibility -- but we are RIGHT :-)". > > Eivind, who really believe this discussion belong in freebsd-arch > (which is now open and moderated). > As long as I am CC:'ed when people want to talk to me, I'll reply :-). -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 11:02:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28846 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:02:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ss1000.ms.mff.cuni.cz (ss1000.ms.mff.cuni.cz [195.113.19.221]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28831 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:02:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mkop5230@ss1000.ms.mff.cuni.cz) Received: from beta.ms.mff.cuni.cz (mkop5230@beta.ms.mff.cuni.cz [195.113.16.70]) by ss1000.ms.mff.cuni.cz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA02294 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:01:46 +0100 Received: from localhost (mkop5230@localhost) by beta.ms.mff.cuni.cz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA08266 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 19:01:46 GMT Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:01:46 +0100 (MET) From: Milan Kopacka Reply-To: Milan Kopacka To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Kernel memory management Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dear hackers, Can somebody point me at some documentation about FreeBSD kernel memory management? I do mean allocating/deallocating memory needed by kernel routines. I need frequent allocating/releasing of fixed length structures. Are the routines zalloc(i)/zfree(i) from vm/vm_zone.c the right way of doing this? They seem promising. :) thank you Milan Kopacka To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 11:05:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29404 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:05:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA29399 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:05:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id LAA00270; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:01:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id LAA09349; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:01:38 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id MAA00979; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 12:01:31 -0700 Message-ID: <3662EB8B.8FCFFECE@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 12:01:31 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dyson@iquest.net CC: Eivind Eklund , adrian@ubergeeks.com, rssh@grad.kiev.ua, grog@lemis.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) References: <199811301829.NAA03045@y.dyson.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "John S. Dyson" wrote: > > Eivind Eklund said: > > > > I'm in favour of compatible. I'm not sure if this require us to bring > > in the bad sides of the SysV system. > > > IMO, SYSV init isn't one of the "bad" things about SYSV. If anything, it > is just not finished (shipped before it was fully thought out.) I suspect > that a reasonable compromise is to implement a SYSV style init correctly, > providing SYSV compatibility, with the desired flexibility and functionality > that we would all prefer. I agree with this. The SYSV init scheme isn't perfect, but it IS better than the mostly monolithic BSD system in that it allows a software vendor to create an individual start up/shown down script for their package that can be installed by copying it into a directory. It also allows the system administrator to control when the package is started up and shutdown through the naming convention. > I truly believe that the current BSD scheme is more of a "punt" as opposed to > a superior solution. Making a choice to stay with the limited BSD init scheme > because the SYSV scheme has it's own problems doesn't solve the problems of > either scheme. The SYSV scheme probably mechanically solves the problems better, > but can be a mess. The BSD scheme is a problem because of it's monolithic and > almost non-layered structure. These technical arguments really beg the issue > of compatibility though. I wasn't part of those dicussions, so I cannot comment on why staying with the BSD system was chosen. I don't necessarily see this as a mistake that was made so much as something we should consider overcoming now. Linux and SYSV/Solaris compatibility have not been as important to FreeBSD in the past as they are now, and will become in the near future. > Ignoring technical arguments AGAIN, SYSV (and Linux) compatilbility are > desirable for packaging and porting reasons. I agree with this also, but want to observe that this doesn't necessarily require wholesale adoption of the SYSV init mechanism. It might actually be possible to do this well enough to vendor packages to install on FreeBSD without cracking init; we could potentially add code to the rc system to track the current 'runlevel' and to run the /etc/rc?.d scripts as appropriate. > As long as I am CC:'ed when people want to talk to me, I'll reply :-). I'm not certain why you were drug into this, but since you're not objecting, I'll continue to solicit (and value) your opinion. ;^) -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 11:36:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA03485 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:36:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA03480 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:36:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA09661; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:36:11 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id UAA13393; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:36:09 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981130203609.S9226@follo.net> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:36:09 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: dyson@iquest.net Cc: adrian@ubergeeks.com, rssh@grad.kiev.ua, grog@lemis.com, wes@softweyr.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) References: <19981130165346.N9226@follo.net> <199811301829.NAA03045@y.dyson.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199811301829.NAA03045@y.dyson.net>; from John S. Dyson on Mon, Nov 30, 1998 at 01:29:21PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Nov 30, 1998 at 01:29:21PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > > I'm in favour of compatible. I'm not sure if this require us to bring > > in the bad sides of the SysV system. > > IMO, SYSV init isn't one of the "bad" things about SYSV. If anything, it > is just not finished (shipped before it was fully thought out.) I suspect > that a reasonable compromise is to implement a SYSV style init correctly, > providing SYSV compatibility, with the desired flexibility and functionality > that we would all prefer. I was thinking of implementing something like the scheme at http://www.freebsd.org/~eivind/newrc.tar.gz (which is just me speaking in code instead of attempting to convey everything in words), and then allowing SysV installers to install as if it was SysV by having entries that run the scripts from rc?.d. > I truly believe that the current BSD scheme is more of a "punt" as opposed to > a superior solution. Making a choice to stay with the limited BSD init scheme > because the SYSV scheme has it's own problems doesn't solve the problems of > either scheme. The SYSV scheme probably mechanically solves the problems better, > but can be a mess. The BSD scheme is a problem because of it's monolithic and > almost non-layered structure. These technical arguments really beg the issue > of compatibility though. We agree on all of this, at least :-) > Ignoring technical arguments AGAIN, SYSV (and Linux) compatilbility are > desirable for packaging and porting reasons. There are lots of things that > one might have to do for compatibility reasons (limited 32bit disk file addressing > in the Linux emulation), however, if the compatibile choice isn't made, then > problems ensue. It would be very bad to say something like "the linux 32bit > file offsets are bogus, so we will unilaterally make the offsets 64bit and > break compatibility -- but we are RIGHT :-)". What I hope to do is provide 'limited compatbility' - we allow SysV style to make porting easier, but if you really want to run 'FreeBSD native', you'll provide scripts that have been adapted for FreeBSD. If you want to override a basic FreeBSD system service (e.g, replace sendmail), you'll need to have a FreeBSD-style script. Does this in your opinion sound like a reasonable tradeoff? Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 11:44:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA04492 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:44:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pablo.total.net (pablo.total.net [205.236.175.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA04485 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:44:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roychri@total.net) Received: from roychri (ppp-5800-01-1125.mtl.total.net [204.19.114.125]) by pablo.total.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA19524 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:44:21 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811301944.OAA19524@pablo.total.net> X-Sender: roychri@pop.total.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:31:50 -0500 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Christian Roy Subject: Upgrading 2.1.7.1 to stable with broken compiler Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi everyone. This is my first post. I came here because FAQs, IRC, man pages and friends couldn't help me much. I do not have that much experience with freeBSD. This machine was used for website statistic before but is no longer used. There's some files in there that I would like to keep. I will back them up but I would like to avoid installing from scratch (format) because I am not in the same physical location as that machine. I am in canada and the machine is in california. I do not want to ask the people that are there because they charge too much. (And they do stupid mistakes). They are in charge of the hosting and that's enough. Anyway, I would like to upgrade this thing. My problems started when I tried to install a software and I had problems creating a valid shared library. I decided to upgrade the g++ compiler to 2.8.1. I downloaded the port and the installation went fine. But since then, I am unable to install anything that requires compilation. When I realized that my atempt in fixing my problem didn't solve anything (it gave me more errors when trying to compiule shared library) , I tried to install an eariler version of g++ (2.7.2). I downloaded the port and I tried compiling it. It wouldn't compile. I tried to compile it with the defaullt compiler (gcc version 2.6.3) and the new 2.8.1 without success. I was complaining about symbol __DYNAMIC not found. So, someone from IRC suggested to upgrade FreeBSD (Because I didn't know I had a very old version). He told me to use CVSup. Since this was a very old version of FreeBSD, CVSup wasn't installed. I tried to install it using the port or the package but the installation always failed. I had to use the static binaries of CVSup. I was able to use it to get src-all. When I tried to 'make buildworld', it ran for 25 minutes. It ran stuff, deleted stuff, created stuff, compiled stuff, but it stoped and complained when trying to compile something. While this thing was going on, I saw this : building shared c library (version 3.1) nm: bt_debug.so: no name list. nm: euc.so: no name list. nm: mskanji.so: no name list. nm: utf2.so: no name list. building special pic c library Then, later on (2-5 minutes later) I got : mkdep -f .depend -a /usr/src/gnu/lib/libobjc/../../../contrib/gcc/objc/NX ConstStr.m /usr/src/gnu/lib/libobjc/../../../contrib/gcc/objc/Object.m /usr/src/ gnu/lib/libobjc/../../../contrib/gcc/objc/Protocol.m /usr/src/gnu/lib/libobjc/../../../contrib/gcc/objc/NXConstStr.m:22: objc/NXConst Str.h: No such file or directory /usr/src/gnu/lib/libobjc/../../../contrib/gcc/objc/Object.m:28: objc/Object.h: N o such file or directory /usr/src/gnu/lib/libobjc/../../../contrib/gcc/objc/Object.m:29: objc/Protocol.h: No such file or directory /usr/src/gnu/lib/libobjc/../../../contrib/gcc/objc/Object.m:30: objc/objc-api.h: No such file or directory /usr/src/gnu/lib/libobjc/../../../contrib/gcc/objc/Protocol.m:27: objc/Protocol. h: No such file or directory /usr/src/gnu/lib/libobjc/../../../contrib/gcc/objc/Protocol.m:28: objc/objc-api. h: No such file or directory mkdep: compile failed. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. So, I cannot build the source. I cannot upgrade the OS. I cannot upgrade the compiler. I am stuck... The compiler I used : gcc version 2.6.3 The computer is a Dell. The Shell I sued was tcsh. OS : FreeBSD 2.1.7.1-RELEASE #5 KERNEL : /usr/src/sys/compile/MYKERNEL i386 I would like to be able to have the latest version of the OS and of the compiler without having to format everything and reinstalling from scratch. Is it possible? How would I do it? Thank you all. A desperate man. Christian Roy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 11:51:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05441 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:51:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.promo.de (mail.Promo.DE [194.45.188.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05436 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:51:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stefan@promo.de) Received: from d235.promo.de (d235.Promo.DE [194.45.188.235]) by mail.promo.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA12487; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:50:37 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:50:38 +0100 From: Stefan Bethke To: Kaleb Keithley cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Message-ID: <815756.3121447838@d235.promo.de> In-Reply-To: <199811300112.UAA13585@sunoco> Originator-Info: login-id=stefan; server=mail X-Mailer: Mulberry Demo (MacOS) [1.4.0, s/n Evaluation] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id LAA05437 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kaleb Keithley wrote: > I'm trying to set up the Columbia AppleTalk stuff on my 3.0-RELEASE > machine. Mainly I want to run aufs so that the Mac can use some of the > disk on my FreeBSD box. > > I have NETATALK and bpf enabled in the kernel. > > I'm curious about this comment in the uar README, which says: > > Notes for FreeBSD 2.0 users: > > There appears to be an error in the ethernet driver (at least in the > ed0 version) which causes the IEEE 802.3 length bytes to be reversed. > > Is there any truth to this? I am using the ed driver for my NIC. I've > looked at if_ed.c, but not knowing what to look for means I'm at a loss. No, definitly not anymore since 2.0.5. > With 802.3 disabled on the Mac I can ping the Mac just fine (and the Mac > works fine) but as soon as I enable 802.3, when I ping the Mac, ping > reports "sendto: Host is down". Thoughts? Huh? Where do you enable "802.3"? AppleTalk uses 802.3 SNAP Ethernet frames. If your talking about checking the 802.3 option in the TCP/IP control panel: that makes the Mac use 802.3 SNAP frames *for IP* instead of the standard Ethernet II frames. If you do, it is perfectly clear that you don't get answers to the pings anymore.´ You might also want at the net/netatalk and net/netatalk+asun ports. Stefan p.s. what kind of broken mailer are you using? Your mail lacks a To:... -- Stefan Bethke Promo Datentechnik | Tel. +49-40-851744-18 + Systemberatung GmbH | Fax. +49-40-851744-44 Eduardstrasse 46-48 | e-mail: stefan@Promo.DE D-20257 Hamburg | http://www.Promo.DE/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 12:02:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07100 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 12:02:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (kcgw1.att.com [192.128.133.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA07082 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 12:02:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: from kcig1.att.att.com by kcgw1.att.com (AT&T/IPNS/UPAS-1.0) for freebsd.org!hackers sender dcn.att.com!sbabkin (dcn.att.com!sbabkin); Mon Nov 30 12:31 CST 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com ([135.44.192.112]) by kcig1.att.att.com (AT&T/IPNS/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id MAA23540 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 12:30:55 -0600 (CST) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:40:49 -0500 Message-ID: To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua, grog@lemis.com Cc: adrian@ubergeeks.com, dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:40:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From: Ruslan Shevchenko [SMTP:Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA] > > Greg Lehey wrote: > > > OK, but you can do this in System V as well. I still haven't seen > > anything that explains what System V init will do (and BSD init won't) > > that we need to implement automatic startup and stopping of > > subsystems. > > > > on SYSV I can say > init "run-level-less-than-database" > init "normal-run-level" > > and sybsystems whill be closed and started up in stack order. > Better don't :-) Theoretically, it should work but in practice this example commonly does not work, even with the services from the OS itself. Although, personally I like the SysV init more than rc files. I really like to be able to hang my own programs with "respawn" option to the inittab. -SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 13:36:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA19322 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:36:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from java.dpcsys.com (java.dpcsys.com [206.16.184.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA19317 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:35:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@dpcsys.com) Received: from localhost (dan@localhost) by java.dpcsys.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA13193; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:35:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:35:33 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Busarow To: Eivind Eklund cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) In-Reply-To: <19981130203609.S9226@follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 30 Nov 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: > I was thinking of implementing something like the scheme at > http://www.freebsd.org/~eivind/newrc.tar.gz (which is just me speaking > in code instead of attempting to convey everything in words), and then Quick question, where does $( in for _rcscript in $( get set? I don't recognize that as a shell builtin. Dan -- Dan Busarow 949 443 4172 Dana Point Communications, Inc. dan@dpcsys.com Dana Point, California 83 09 EF 59 E0 11 89 B4 8D 09 DB FD E1 DD 0C 82 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 18:23:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA28580 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 18:23:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (sj-dsl-9-129-138.dspeed.net [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA28575 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 18:23:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA03081; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 18:21:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199812010221.SAA03081@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: dyson@iquest.net cc: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund), adrian@ubergeeks.com, rssh@grad.kiev.ua, grog@lemis.com, wes@softweyr.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:29:21 EST." <199811301829.NAA03045@y.dyson.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 18:21:57 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thinking about start / stop scripts is well... very romantic 8) What about the posibility of providing a network protocol for the purpose of managing daemons/services. The initial protocol can be very simple : start, stop , suspend, ident , class or group because I may want to stop or start a group of services. Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 18:52:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA01593 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 18:52:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail0.mailsender.net (mail0.mailsender.net [209.132.1.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA01587 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 18:52:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shoney@symmetricsolutions.com) Received: from symmetricsolutions.com (205.243.141.122) by mail0.mailsender.net; 30 Nov 1998 18:36:59 -0800 Message-ID: <36635924.B09ACB12@symmetricsolutions.com> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:49:08 -0600 From: Scott Honey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: vpo0 driver not displaying or functioning correctly... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm currently running a FreeBSD 3.0-Release box with a Intel 200mhz with 32 megs ram. I'm running off of an ELF kernel. I'm trying to get the vpo driver and ppc to work, when I take the code from the LINT configuration file and place it in my GENERIC config file: .... #device lpt0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 vector lptintr .... controller scbus0 device da0 .... controller ppbus0 controller vpo0 at ppbus? device nlpt0 at ppbus? device plip0 at ppbus? device ppi0 at ppbus? device pps0 at ppbus? controller ppc0 at isa? disable port ? tty irq 7 vector ppcintr when I apply this change to a GENERIC config file that I haven't changed and I reboot my box, nothing happens, its like I didn't even include it in my configuration. When I had 2.2.6 loaded up it would tell me that it found the drive and stuff but now all it does is continue on without a hint of the driver. Its hard to find any text on the 3.0-release yet on the subject. Does anyone have a clue what to do with this? I don't care if I get flamed for this question, i've been trying to get this thing to work sence the release of 3.0 and nothing helps. Any help is welcome. -------------------------------------------------------- Scott Honey - shoney@symmetricsolutions.com -------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 19:14:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA03672 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 19:14:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail0.mailsender.net (mail0.mailsender.net [209.132.1.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA03666 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 19:14:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shoney@symmetricsolutions.com) Received: from symmetricsolutions.com (205.243.141.122) by mail0.mailsender.net; 30 Nov 1998 19:07:36 -0800 Message-ID: <36635F01.BC662192@symmetricsolutions.com> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 21:14:10 -0600 From: Scott Honey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vpo0 driver not displaying or functioning correctly... References: <000501be1cd6$7a519aa0$6e01a8c0@simbarchi.turnaround.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Joe Shevland wrote: > >Did you rebuild your kernel?yeah, I did a make depend, make, and make installit still doesn't want to do anything. its also effecting my sound card too, i've included the config code and the log i get when I boot the machine: controller snd0 device sb0 at isa? port 0x220 irq 7 conflicts drq 1 vector sbintr device sbxvi0 at isa? drq 5 device sbmidi0 at isa? port 0x330 (yes I do know that the zip drive code and the sound code are using the same IRQ but I don't use both at the same time, I have to seperate kernels for each, one I use normally and the other I use for accessing my zip drive. And I do run the right kernel when I boot my machine :-) the message I get from this when I boot is: Nov 30 20:54:25 synth /kernel: sb_reset_dsp failed Nov 30 20:54:25 synth /kernel: sb0 not found at 0x220 Nov 30 20:54:25 synth /kernel: sb_reset_dsp failed Nov 30 20:54:25 synth /kernel: sbxvi0 not found Nov 30 20:54:25 synth /kernel: sbmidi0 not found at 0x330 This stopped working the second I tried to use the vpo driver and now with out it, it still doesn't work. I haven't changed any system settings, All i've done was recompile two kernels (one for sound and the other for the zip drive) now both my sound and my zip don't work. Any Ideas? -------------------------------------------------------- Scott Honey - shoney@symmetricsolutions.com -------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 22:19:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA19176 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 22:19:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA19170 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 22:19:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA16020; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 22:18:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) From: John Polstra Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA20534; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 22:18:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 22:18:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199812010618.WAA20534@vashon.polstra.com> To: gram@cdsec.com Subject: Re: Documentation on man page macros Newsgroups: polstra.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <199811301505.RAA07501@cdsec.com> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <199811301505.RAA07501@cdsec.com>, Graham Wheeler wrote: > Hi folks > > Does anyone know where I can find documentation on the macros used in > manual pages? man 7 mdoc man 7 mdoc.samples See also the files in /usr/share/examples/mdoc. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 22:34:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA20543 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 22:34:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA20538 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 22:34:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA03461; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 22:33:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 22:33:29 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199812010633.WAA03461@apollo.backplane.com> To: John Polstra Cc: gram@cdsec.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Documentation on man page macros Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> Does anyone know where I can find documentation on the macros used in :> manual pages? : :man 7 mdoc :man 7 mdoc.samples : :See also the files in /usr/share/examples/mdoc. : :John :-- : John Polstra jdp@polstra.com : John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA : "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." : -- H. L. Mencken : :To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org :with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message Ahhhhh... I've been looking for that too. I'm going to add a reference to mdoc(7) and mdoc.samples(7) at the bottom of the man(1) manual page if people don't mind. -Matt Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications & God knows what else. (Please include original email in any response) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 22:57:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA22272 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 22:57:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lorax.ubergeeks.com (lorax.ubergeeks.com [206.205.41.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA22265 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 22:57:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by lorax.ubergeeks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA05760; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 01:56:31 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 01:56:31 -0500 (EST) From: ADRIAN Filipi-Martin Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: "John S. Dyson" cc: Eivind Eklund , rssh@grad.kiev.ua, grog@lemis.com, wes@softweyr.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) In-Reply-To: <199811301510.KAA02669@y.dyson.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 30 Nov 1998, John S. Dyson wrote: > Eivind Eklund said: > > > > The SysV approach ("symlink hell" and "let's play > > mix-the-os-and-the-apps") is not really a good solution to this. > > Those people that have managed SysV style boxes (and I never have) > > tell me you regularly have to re-number a bunch of scripts because > > you're out of slots to get the order you want. Besides, the SysV > > approach is a de-nomralization - it loose the information on what has > > to run before what, and just store the final order. Computing the > > final order from a normalized representation is cheap, and it allow > > replacements to indicate exactly how they are to run. Overall, it > > seems (to me) to be a better infrastructure. > > > The problem with the current structure is the single file (or > small group of single files) that are not easily seperable. The default > BSD configuration is pretty much a monolithic morass. I don't like > a terrible morass of multiple files either. However, the current > argument is similar to structured programming vs. excessive goto > programming (or programming in traditional, non structured basic.) > As released, the monolithic scheme is okay, but systems don't stay > the way that they are when released from an OS vendor. Ok, I told myself to roll over and play dead on this topic, but I guess I cannot help myself. I guess we just see things differently. I view the rc?.d directories and their name based ordering as a worse morass than the monolithic BSD rc's. I rarely find them useful, and I rather like being able to page through the rc and quickly know what's going on. This is no longer possible once it is broken into 30 or 40 files. I don't actually believe the BSD rc's are all that monolithic anyway, oligolithic at best. With rc, rc.serial, rc.pccard, rc.network, rc.firewall, rc.atm, rc., rc.local and rc.shutdown things are reasonably broken up, IMHO. Adrian -- [ adrian@ubergeeks.com -- Ubergeeks Consulting -- http://www.ubergeeks.com/ ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 23:15:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA24068 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 23:15:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lorax.ubergeeks.com (lorax.ubergeeks.com [206.205.41.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA24043 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 23:15:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by lorax.ubergeeks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA05889; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 02:15:05 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 02:15:05 -0500 (EST) From: ADRIAN Filipi-Martin Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: Eivind Eklund cc: rssh@grad.kiev.ua, Greg Lehey , dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) In-Reply-To: <19981130140408.F9226@follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 30 Nov 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Mon, Nov 30, 1998 at 03:04:18AM +0000, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > > for FreeBSD, I think, ideally is to have explicit graph of dependences, > > in some form, where init-states is marks of nodes on it, and during > > init close all nodes which have rank biggest then argument. > > I posted code to do this a week ago. > > http://www.freebsd.org/~eivind/newrc.tar.gz > > This include a (somewhat raw) rewrite of the functionality in rc to > the new scheme. > > Eivind. Well, I took a look. It seems that most of what we are arguing about has little bearing on your implementation. No start/stop scripts nor run-levels. While your code no doubt works and does the right think, I see two problems with it. First, it cannot be flipped through and explained in less than 10 minutes. While I can parse that fancy for-loop in the rc, I think this would send any newbie screaming for their mother. The old rc's aren't that opaque. Second, the dynamic ordering of dependencies is nice, but having the ordering information spread accross every file in rc.d makes it very hard to speak with authority on just what is going to happen and in what order. Pulling this ordering information up into a central place would be much prefered. I also content that it would be more maintainable over the long haul. I'd argue more for maintaining a list of rc's to run in rc.conf or the top level rc itself. Something like the following: scripts="" scripts="${scripts} ccdconfig" scripts="${scripts} swapon" scripts="${scripts} autoboot" scripts="${scripts} mount_root" scripts="${scripts} mount_local" scripts="${scripts} start_net" scripts="${scripts} mount_nfs" ... scripts="${scripts} rc.local" for i in ${scripts}; do /etc/rc.d/$i start done The order of execution is easily grasped. For rc.shutdown, all you need to do is reverse the list and loop with "stop" as the argument. If you still want to do a tsort, add the before and after values at this level, where they are easily understood. At least then the dependencies are quicker to see. Adrian -- [ adrian@ubergeeks.com -- Ubergeeks Consulting -- http://www.ubergeeks.com/ ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 23:30:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA25704 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 23:30:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lorax.ubergeeks.com (lorax.ubergeeks.com [206.205.41.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA25635 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 23:29:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by lorax.ubergeeks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA05925; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 02:29:42 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 02:29:42 -0500 (EST) From: ADRIAN Filipi-Martin Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: Dan Busarow cc: Eivind Eklund , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 30 Nov 1998, Dan Busarow wrote: > On Mon, 30 Nov 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > I was thinking of implementing something like the scheme at > > http://www.freebsd.org/~eivind/newrc.tar.gz (which is just me speaking > > in code instead of attempting to convey everything in words), and then > > Quick question, where does $( in > > for _rcscript in $( > > get set? I don't recognize that as a shell builtin. $(command) == `command` $() is the POSIX way and a lot less prone for confusion with the single quote. I'll note that this is the same big for-loop that I suggested would scare a newbie into running to their mother in another message. Adrian -- [ adrian@ubergeeks.com -- Ubergeeks Consulting -- http://www.ubergeeks.com/ ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 23:44:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA27005 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 23:44:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA26994 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 23:44:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA03898; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 23:43:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 23:43:55 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199812010743.XAA03898@apollo.backplane.com> To: ADRIAN Filipi-Martin Cc: Dan Busarow , Eivind Eklund , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> :> get set? I don't recognize that as a shell builtin. : : : $(command) == `command` : : $() is the POSIX way and a lot less prone for confusion with the :single quote. : : Adrian :-- :[ adrian@ubergeeks.com -- Ubergeeks Consulting -- http://www.ubergeeks.com/ ] Not to detract from the other threads I'm trying to push commits through, but... oh damn, I just can't pass it up: Why not organize an RC system based on the specification of a set of dependancies? For example, require a '#DEPENDS/RETURNS' line (or equivalent) in the first 2 lines of each rc file. ---- some rc.xxx file ---- #!/bin/sh #DEPENDS(network,sendmail,...) RETURNS(atm) # ... -------------------------- Forget trying to sort RC files, rc.conf would have a variable that specifies a list of rc files and directories and the rc script figures out the dependancy tree and executes the RC files from there, in the appropriate order based on the dependancies and exit codes. It could even run non-conflicting RC files in parallel, now wouldn't that be cool! /etc/rc would be somewhat more complex (or we could write a C program to run through the dependancy list), but that's all hidden from the user. The user simply plops down his RC script with a reasonable DEPENDS and RETURNS directive on line #2 and the system does the rest. -Matt Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications & God knows what else. (Please include original email in any response) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 00:04:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA28755 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 00:04:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA28750 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 00:03:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA03964; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 00:03:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 00:03:45 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199812010803.AAA03964@apollo.backplane.com> To: ADRIAN Filipi-Martin , Dan Busarow , Eivind Eklund , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) References: <199812010743.XAA03898@apollo.backplane.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : ---- some rc.xxx file ---- : #!/bin/sh : #DEPENDS(network,sendmail,...) RETURNS(atm) : # : ... : -------------------------- Doh. bad example. Here's a better example: -------------- rc.network --------------- #!/bin/sh #DEPENDS(network.local,ifc,lo,routes,ipfw) RETURNS(network) # exit 0 -------------- rc.bind --------------- #!/bin/sh #DEPENDS(network) RETURNS(bind) # ... named startup ... -------------- rc.sendmail --------------- #!/bin/sh #DEPENDS(bind,hostname) RETURNS(sendmail) # ... sendmail startup ... ... other rc files ... Plus a C program to locate and execute dependancies and/or to locate and print out the dependancy tree (to make sense of the nonsense). Which /etc/rc runs. -Matt Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications & God knows what else. (Please include original email in any response) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 00:43:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA02713 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 00:43:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lorax.ubergeeks.com (lorax.ubergeeks.com [206.205.41.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA02708 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 00:43:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by lorax.ubergeeks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA06102; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 03:43:19 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 03:43:19 -0500 (EST) From: ADRIAN Filipi-Martin Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: Matthew Dillon cc: Dan Busarow , Eivind Eklund , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) In-Reply-To: <199812010743.XAA03898@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 30 Nov 1998, Matthew Dillon wrote: > Not to detract from the other threads I'm trying to push commits through, > but... oh damn, I just can't pass it up: Why not organize an RC system > based on the specification of a set of dependancies? > > For example, require a '#DEPENDS/RETURNS' line (or equivalent) in > the first 2 lines of each rc file. > > ---- some rc.xxx file ---- > #!/bin/sh > #DEPENDS(network,sendmail,...) RETURNS(atm) > # > ... > -------------------------- Hmmm, not compatable with anything else, and more complicated. Were order dependencies ever that hard to begin with? Sure someone has to read the manpages to know that portmapper needs to run before nfsd, but are we really solving any problems by having the system dynamiaclly determine that "yes, we still need to start portmapper before nfsd"? I'm not trying to pick on you in the above, but a lot of the justification for svr4 init/statt/stop has shifted towards being compatable with other systems like linux, solaris, etc. cheers, Adrian -- [ adrian@ubergeeks.com -- Ubergeeks Consulting -- http://www.ubergeeks.com/ ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 00:48:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA03170 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 00:48:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from send105.yahoomail.com (send105.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA03164 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 00:48:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from thallgren@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <19981201085212.17161.rocketmail@send105.yahoomail.com> Received: from [131.116.188.2] by send105.yahoomail.com; Tue, 01 Dec 1998 00:52:12 PST Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 00:52:12 -0800 (PST) From: Tommy Hallgren Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG If we're talking about dependencies, "make" should do the job. :-) Regards, Tommy _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 00:54:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA03491 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 00:54:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [195.187.243.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA03486 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 00:54:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA14705; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 09:24:18 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 09:24:17 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: Matthew Dillon cc: ADRIAN Filipi-Martin , Dan Busarow , Eivind Eklund , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) In-Reply-To: <199812010803.AAA03964@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Matthew Dillon wrote: > -------------- rc.network --------------- > #!/bin/sh > #DEPENDS(network.local,ifc,lo,routes,ipfw) RETURNS(network) > # > exit 0 > Plus a C program to locate and execute dependancies and/or to locate > and print out the dependancy tree (to make sense of the nonsense). Which > /etc/rc runs. If you want to read about something very similar in concept, but far more radical, read: http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/picobsd/doc/UCI.html Andrzej Bialecki -------------------- ++-------++ ------------------------------------- ||PicoBSD|| FreeBSD in your pocket? Go and see: Research & Academic |+-------+| "Small & Embedded FreeBSD" Network in Poland | |TT~~~| | http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ -------------------- ~-+==---+-+ ------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 01:40:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA07372 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 01:40:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA07364 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 01:40:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id EAA140960; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 04:40:42 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@pop1.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199812010743.XAA03898@apollo.backplane.com> Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 04:39:56 -0500 To: Adrian Filipi-Martin , Matthew Dillon From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) Cc: Dan Busarow , Eivind Eklund , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 3:43 AM -0500 12/1/98, ADRIAN Filipi-Martin wrote: >On Mon, 30 Nov 1998, Matthew Dillon wrote: > >> Not to detract from the other threads I'm trying to push commits >> through, but... oh damn, I just can't pass it up: Why not organize >> an RC system based on the specification of a set of dependancies? >> >> For example, require a '#DEPENDS/RETURNS' line (or equivalent) in >> the first 2 lines of each rc file. >> >> ---- some rc.xxx file ---- >> #!/bin/sh >> #DEPENDS(network,sendmail,...) RETURNS(atm) >> # >> ... >> -------------------------- > > Hmmm, not compatable with anything else, and more complicated. > Were order dependencies ever that hard to begin with? Sure someone > has to read the manpages to know that portmapper needs to run before > nfsd, but are we really solving any problems by having the system > dynamiacally determine that "yes, we still need to start portmapper > before nfsd"? I think the DEPENDS/RETURNS idea is pretty interesting. The initial goal is just to break up the "more-monolithic" BSD startup scripts into smaller pieces. I do think that's a good thing (and yes I've worked with both BSD and SysV setups). This DEPENDS/RETURNS idea is not meant to solve some current problem, it's meant to solve the problems which crop up once you do break up the "more-monolithic" startup scripts into lots of little scripts. I, for one, would like to see the "more-monolithic" (for lack of a better phrase) scripts broken up. I'd be happy enough with some SysV-ish result, but I'd be much happier if we happened to add in some idea such as this to solve the ordering-of-little-files problem. > I'm not trying to pick on you in the above, but a lot of the > justification for svr4 init/statt/stop has shifted towards being > compatable with other systems like linux, solaris, etc. If I'm thinking about this clearly (and that is not at all certain given the hour...), I think this idea can be compatable with sysV setups, or at least "compatable" in the way I want it. All this requires is some comments added in the little RC file. >From the standpoint of a person writing a script, the contents of the script could be exactly the same for freebsd and SysV. (they do have to add a few lines, but adding those lines does not break anything under SysV). The *name* of the file may have to be different too --- but then SysV by itself can get you into the situation where you need different names for the same startup script anyway, depending on what else is installed. The specifics of what those comment lines should be, and how they would be processed at startup under freebsd may need some more thought, but I like the general direction of this idea. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 02:13:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA10246 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 02:13:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA10241 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 02:13:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id FAA182870; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 05:11:58 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@pop1.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199811301510.KAA02669@y.dyson.net> Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 05:11:13 -0500 To: Adrian Filipi-Martin , "John S. Dyson" From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) Cc: Eivind Eklund , rssh@grad.kiev.ua, grog@lemis.com, wes@softweyr.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 1:56 AM -0500 12/1/98, ADRIAN Filipi-Martin wrote: > >On Mon, 30 Nov 1998, John S. Dyson wrote: >> The problem with the current structure is the single file (or small >> group of single files) that are not easily seperable. The default >> BSD configuration is pretty much a monolithic morass. I don't like >> a terrible morass of multiple files either. However, the current >> argument is similar to structured programming vs. excessive goto >> programming (or programming in traditional, non structured basic.) >> As released, the monolithic scheme is okay, but systems don't stay >> the way that they are when released from an OS vendor. > > Ok, I told myself to roll over and play dead on this topic, but > I guess I cannot help myself. Heh heh. I've been trying to tell myself to add my own two cents on this discussion, but I've had mixed feelings about most of the proposals so I haven't said much until the DEPEND/RETURNS idea came along... > I guess we just see things differently. I view the rc?.d > directories and their name based ordering as a worse morass than the > monolithic BSD rc's. I rarely find them useful, and I rather like > being able to page through the rc and quickly know what's going on. > This is no longer possible once it is broken into 30 or 40 files. I do find the smaller RC scripts useful, particularly when I need to change something, particularly if I want to make sure that change does not get lost when new system releases are installed. Note that if we went with something like a simple C program run at startup to process the DEPENDS/RETURNS comment lines, that program could just write out what it's going to do into some logfile. One might then be able to check this logfile to find out every thing which has been started or stopped since the most recent reboot. The program could easily have a parameter saying "read all the current startup files, and tell me what you'd do without actually doing anything". > I don't actually believe the BSD rc's are all that > monolithic anyway, oligolithic at best. With rc, rc.serial, > rc.pccard, rc.network, rc.firewall, rc.atm, rc., rc.local > and rc.shutdown things are reasonably broken up, IMHO. For the most part they are reasonably broken up, but if you're adding packages or other customizations you sometimes need to modify something in the middle of one of those files just for ordering purposes. I always feel uneasy doing that. It's one thing if I have to change (say) rc.network because I want to change *networking*, it's something else if I'm changing that just because I want to insert some other thing after "part A" but before "part B" in the file I'm changing. This gets even more unnerving once it's done for some product a company is putting together. I have installed products (on other OS's) which had friendly installers which edit /etc/rc* scripts as part of the install, and that seems like a really bad idea to me. Now, if that's all they can do then that's all they can do, but I would much rather that they would not have to do that. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 05:05:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA25658 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 05:05:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomad.dataplex.net (nomad.dataplex.net [208.2.87.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA25652 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 05:05:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@nomad.dataplex.net) Received: from localhost (rkw@localhost) by nomad.dataplex.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA22092; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:05:20 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rkw@nomad.dataplex.net) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:05:20 -0600 (CST) From: Richard Wackerbarth To: ADRIAN Filipi-Martin cc: Eivind Eklund , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, ADRIAN Filipi-Martin wrote: > On Mon, 30 Nov 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: [...] > > While your code no doubt works and does the right think, I see two > problems with it. First, it cannot be flipped through and explained in > less than 10 minutes. While I can parse that fancy for-loop in the rc, I > think this would send any newbie screaming for their mother. The old rc's > aren't that opaque. > > Second, the dynamic ordering of dependencies is nice, but having > the ordering information spread accross every file in rc.d makes it very > hard to speak with authority on just what is going to happen and in what > order. Pulling this ordering information up into a central place would be > much prefered. I also content that it would be more maintainable over the > long haul. > > I'd argue more for maintaining a list of rc's to run in rc.conf or > the top level rc itself. Something like the following: > > scripts="" > scripts="${scripts} ccdconfig" > scripts="${scripts} swapon" > scripts="${scripts} autoboot" > scripts="${scripts} mount_root" > scripts="${scripts} mount_local" > scripts="${scripts} start_net" > scripts="${scripts} mount_nfs" > ... > scripts="${scripts} rc.local" > > for i in ${scripts}; do > /etc/rc.d/$i start > done > > The order of execution is easily grasped. For rc.shutdown, all > you need to do is reverse the list and loop with "stop" as the argument. > > If you still want to do a tsort, add the before and after values > at this level, where they are easily understood. At least then the > dependencies are quicker to see. Perhaps we can get the benefits of both approaches by having a script that auto-generates the script inclusion script. [ in /etc/rc ] ... . /etc/rc.conf if [ X"auto_sequence_scripts_enable" = X"YES" ] ; then /etc/rc.rebuild_script_sequence fi . /etc/rc.script_sequence - - - [ in /etc/rc.rebuild_script_sequence ] [A variant of Eivind's code whech generates ...] - - - [ in /etc/rc.script_sequence ] lines (in the desired order) such as . /etc/rc.d/network1 /usr/local/etc/rc.d/apache start - - - I see a few complaints about this scheme. 1) It certainly is a lot of effort to handle the common case where the startup script is so short that it nomally included inline. 2) This scheme would require that the /etc/rc.script_sequence file be writeable. 3) We need a scheme that automatically defaults scripts which have no sequencing info to the end of the sequence 4) We need to be able to postpone major portions of the sequence until external events occur. In particular, consider PCMCIA ethernet interface cards that "appear" some time after the card deamon is started. We need to delay network services until the card appears. Further, we may need to delay ntpdate until a default route has had time to be discovered. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 05:20:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA26459 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 05:20:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from walter.doc.ic.ac.uk (walter.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.2.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA26373 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 05:17:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from md@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from theon.doc.ic.ac.uk ([146.169.1.33] helo=doc.ic.ac.uk) by walter.doc.ic.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.890 #1) id 0zkpft-00030V-00; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:17:05 +0000 Message-ID: <3663EC50.5C67149C@doc.ic.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 13:17:04 +0000 From: Mark Dawson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.34 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG CC: dwj@agw.bt.co.uk Subject: Compaq SMART RAID 'ida' driver updated for FreeBSD-3.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG An update for the 'ida' driver for FreeBSD-3.0 is available at: http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~md/ida/ As I don't run FreeBSD-3.0 in production it is relatively untested (feedback would be appreciated). It runs up happily on the latest Compaq SMART controller, FYI: http://www.compaq.com/products/servers/storage/3200-description.html A floppy boot image may be forthcoming soon (courtesy of David James at BT). It would be great if the FreeBSD team would allocate us major and minor device numbers for the 'id' (Intelligent Disk [Array]) as this would make it easier to get the native (i.e. non-cuckooing) support sorted. Best regards, Mark To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 05:30:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA27321 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 05:30:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA27315 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 05:30:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id OAA01556 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:30:24 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:30:04 +0100 (MET) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: major/minor numbers Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG For USB support I need at least 1 but possible 3 or more major numbers. usb0 and possibly ums0 ulpt0 ucuaa0 (maybe) Brian Feldman came up with the idea to use major numbers together with other drivers, for example have ums use the numbers that also psm uses (their both PS/2 mice). Anyone tried this? Sounds a bit odd if you do not want to divide minor number space amongst them statically. Second question is: How many minor numbers can be stuck onto a major number? 16, 256, 1024, 2^16, 2^32 ? Cheers, Nick Hibma FreeBSD USB project -- The above are strictly my own opinions and not my employer's. e-mail: n_hibma@freebsd.org home page: http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/usb/usb.pl mailing list: usb-bsd@egroups.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 06:23:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA02747 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 06:23:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pigeon.doc.ic.ac.uk (pigeon.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.5.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA02284 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 06:19:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from md@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from theon.doc.ic.ac.uk ([146.169.1.33] helo=doc.ic.ac.uk) by pigeon.doc.ic.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.890 #1) id 0zkq0D-00058f-00; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:38:05 +0000 Message-ID: <3663F13A.F345C91E@doc.ic.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 13:38:02 +0000 From: Mark Dawson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.34 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, dwj@agw.bt.co.uk Subject: Re: Compaq SMART RAID 'ida' driver updated for FreeBSD-3.0 References: <3663EC50.5C67149C@doc.ic.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > would allocate us major and minor Whoops! That should have read 'major numbers for the block and character devices'. Thanks, Mark To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 06:39:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA04848 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 06:39:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Thingol.KryptoKom.DE (Thingol.KryptoKom.DE [194.245.91.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA04792 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 06:39:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Etienne.Debruin@KryptoKom.DE) Received: (from mail@localhost) by Thingol.KryptoKom.DE (8.8.7/8.8.4) id PAA21426 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:40:24 +0100 Received: from cirdan.kryptokom.de by via smtpp (Version 1.1.1beta6) id kwa21424; Tue Dec 01 15:40:13 1998 Received: by Cirdan.KryptoKom.DE (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA02542 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:35:17 +0100 Original: Received: (from debruin@localhost) by borg.kryptokom.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA02871 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:44:39 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from debruin) From: Etienne de Bruin Message-Id: <199812011444.PAA02871@borg.kryptokom.de> Subject: Kernels and Bottom halves To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (Hackers FreeBSD) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:44:38 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG greets... i have a semi complex problem which i need to explain in a semi detailed way. it has to do with bottom halves of kernels and interrupts. once a complete packet has been received from the network device driver, an interrupt takes place which is handled by tulip_intr and resulting functions are called to process the packet. in one of these resulting functions, my function is called which has it's own interrupt handler (pci device driver). we're all in the bottom half of the kernel. thing is, my function starts a DMA process which finishes by signalling an interrupt which should be handled by my interrupt handler. but my interrupt handler never gets invoked. it seems to me that the interrupt priority level is raised (by splimp) before the tulip_intr is invoked. this causes the priority level to be too high for my interrupt to be handled. but this is a catch 22 situation because only once my DMA procedure has finished, can i allow for the network device driver to continue. if you understand the above then you probably have some more questions... i would gladly appreciate any ideas on this subject. i include a backtrack of the kernel debug so you can have an idea of how the process execution takes place (my functions are the super_crypt_* functions): #19 0xf014e7d1 in super_crypt_data_dma (sc_ptr=0xf0273970, data=0xf0238e48) at ../../pci/if_fc.c:1672 #20 0xf014eb31 in super_crypt_mbuf (mdata=0xf0238e80) at ../../pci/if_fc.c:1821 #21 0xf014cb9e in sec_proc (p=0xf024e180, m=0xf2423e00) at ../../kglan/enc_proc.c:518 #22 0xf0148619 in process_pkt (p=0xf024e180, m=0xf2423e00) at ../../kglan/acc_proc.c:443 #23 0xf0146c57 in analyse_pkt (ifpos=1, eh=0xf0238f78, pkt=0xf242400e "E\020", pktlen=68, m=0xf2423e00) at ../../net/kglan.c:663 #24 0xf0147083 in kglan_test_pkt (ifp=0xf0238f48, h=0xf0238f78, m=0xf2423e00) at ../../net/kglan.c:956 #25 0xf01502e6 in ether_input (ifp=0xf2f66818, eh=0xf0238f78, m=0xf2423e00) at ../../net/if_ethersubr.c:587 #26 0xf019b34c in tulip_rx_intr (sc=0xf2f66800) at ../../pci/if_de.c:3506 #27 0xf019b977 in tulip_intr_handler (sc=0xf2f66800, progress_p=0xf0238fb0) at ../../pci/if_de.c:3792 #28 0xf019bad5 in tulip_intr_normal (arg=0xf2f66800) at ../../pci/if_de.c:3981 should i try to lower the priority level before the tulip_intr gets called? kind regards eT -- Etienne de Bruin work: home: "the promise of love is hard to ignore" - crowded house, private universe. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 07:09:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA07319 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:09:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA07310 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:09:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA20669; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:11:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <366406F8.AE876A3D@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 08:10:48 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Filipi-Martin CC: "John S. Dyson" , Eivind Eklund , rssh@grad.kiev.ua, grog@lemis.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ADRIAN Filipi-Martin wrote: > > I guess we just see things differently. I view the rc?.d > directories and their name based ordering as a worse morass than the > monolithic BSD rc's. I rarely find them useful, and I rather like being > able to page through the rc and quickly know what's going on. This is no > longer possible once it is broken into 30 or 40 files. Turn around and look at it from the viewpoint of an ISV writing a daemon of some sort. Your installation program needs to setup the daemon to automagically start on system boot, and shutdown cleanly when the system stops. How do you do this? Do you really want them to edit one of YOUR carefully crafted startup scripts? I thought not. > I don't actually believe the BSD rc's are all that monolithic > anyway, oligolithic at best. With rc, rc.serial, rc.pccard, rc.network, > rc.firewall, rc.atm, rc., rc.local and rc.shutdown things are > reasonably broken up, IMHO. And in which one of these do I *add* my voice mail gateway daemon? It's not a pccard, nor a network, nor a firewall, nor an atm, nor an architecture, it's only sort of local, and it's not really serial. The answer is, of course, stick your SYSV-style startup script in /usr/local/etc/rc.d and it will pretty much work, but I'm not sure we've done a good job of explaining that. We should also make it as compatible as possible, to make sure the widest range of start/ stop scripts WILL work. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 09:00:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA17144 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 09:00:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arthur.axion.bt.co.uk (arthur.axion.bt.co.uk [132.146.5.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA17118; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 09:00:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from guilhem.ensuque@bt-sys.bt.co.uk) Received: from rambo (actually rambo.futures.bt.co.uk) by arthur (local) with SMTP; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:59:13 +0000 Received: from mussel.futures.bt.co.uk (actually mussel) by rambo with SMTP (PP); Tue, 1 Dec 1998 17:02:49 +0000 Received: by mussel.futures.bt.co.uk with Microsoft Exchange (IMC 4.0.837.3) id <01BE1D4B.3B65E9C0@mussel.futures.bt.co.uk>; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:54:16 -0000 Message-ID: From: Guilhem Ensuque To: "'mobile@FreeBSD.ORG'" , "'hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: [Free BSD] X-windows settings for Dell Latitude CPi Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 17:04:05 -0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.837.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi all I am pretty new to install FreeBSD on laptops... and I have a somewhat naive question: The Dells we purchased don't come with any technical specs of the display. The models we have are the CPi D300XT and Dell support are less than helpful... I know some of you mentioned installing X Windows, so I would be more than grateful if someone could send the settings they used for the display: which XGA card setting should we use (XGA 1 or XGA 2 ?) horiz and vert sync rate of screen Reply to me directly and if anyone is interested I'll post a summary on the list Thanks in advance Guilhem Ensuque Mobility Research Unit guilhem.ensuque@bt-sys.bt.co.uk B55-131B BT Laboratories Martlesham Heath tel : +44 1473 645 232 IPSWICH IP5 3RE (UK) fax : +44 1473 646 885 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 10:12:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA26154 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:12:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA26103 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:11:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA29073 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:11:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA00104; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:11:35 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:11:35 -0700 Message-Id: <199812011811.LAA00104@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: TCP bug X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In trying to track down why some boxes in my network can't connect to certain WWW hosts, I determined that my FreeBSD is not routing the packets for some reason. It's receiving them, and the firewall code *thinks* it's passing them on, but tcpdump doesn't see these packets go out on the wire. Here is a tcpdump running on the router box on the SLIP interface, which is used to connect this box to the net. trout:~ # tcpdump -i sl0 host caddis and www.nfl.com tcpdump: listening on sl0 10:59:25.070467 caddis.mt.sri.com.1168 > 204.202.130.220.http: F 44509504:44509504(0) ack 590573758 win 8760 (DF) 10:59:25.301468 204.202.130.220.http > caddis.mt.sri.com.1168: . ack 1 win 8523 (DF) 10:59:26.743584 caddis.mt.sri.com.1169 > 204.202.130.220.http: S 44535173:44535173(0) win 8192 (DF) 10:59:27.030647 204.202.130.220.http > caddis.mt.sri.com.1169: S 61555778:61555778(0) ack 44535174 win 8760 (DF) 10:59:27.040487 caddis.mt.sri.com.1169 > 204.202.130.220.http: . ack 1 win 8760 (DF) 10:59:27.045184 caddis.mt.sri.com.1169 > 204.202.130.220.http: P 1:238(237) ack 1 win 8760 (DF) 10:59:30.270350 caddis.mt.sri.com.1169 > 204.202.130.220.http: P 1:238(237) ack 1 win 8760 (DF) 10:59:30.569812 204.202.130.220.http > caddis.mt.sri.com.1169: . ack 238 win 8523 (DF) 11:00:00.450457 204.202.130.220.http > caddis.mt.sri.com.1169: R 61558699:61558699(0) win 0 (DF) So, things appear to be working fine. Now, if I run the same attempt on the ethernet segment where my box is connected, I get the following: trout:~ # tcpdump -i le0 host caddis and www.nfl.com tcpdump: listening on le0 11:01:44.152318 caddis.mt.sri.com.1170 > 204.202.130.220.http: S 44672602:44672602(0) win 8192 (DF) 11:01:44.371405 caddis.mt.sri.com.1170 > 204.202.130.220.http: . ack 43281555 win 8760 (DF) 11:01:44.373678 caddis.mt.sri.com.1170 > 204.202.130.220.http: P 0:237(237) ack 1 win 8760 (DF) 11:01:47.531398 caddis.mt.sri.com.1170 > 204.202.130.220.http: P 0:237(237) ack 1 win 8760 (DF) Again, I'm not TCPDUMP expert, but it's obvious that the response from www.nfl.com isn't getting on the wire. However, in my early attempts to diagnose this, I have the following rules. 00100 allow log tcp from 206.127.76.139 to any 80 via le0 00110 allow log tcp from 206.127.76.139 to any 80 via sl0 00200 allow log tcp from any 80 to 206.127.76.139 via sl0 00210 allow log tcp from any 80 to 206.127.76.139 via le0 So, I should see packets going out my ethernet segment to the router (100) through my slip connection to the net (110), back from the remote site through my slip connection (200), and then back to the originator on my ethernet segment (210). This happens according to the firewall entries, but tcpdump doesn't seen any traffic? Any clues? A number of FreeBSD boxes in my net have this problem, so it would be nice to get this resolved. Note, I have Route-discovery ICMP packets turned on in the firewall. 00150 allow icmp from any to any via ed0 icmptype 0,3,8,11 Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 10:22:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27824 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:22:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (sj-dsl-9-129-138.dspeed.net [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA27817 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:22:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA11627; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:20:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199812011820.KAA11627@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Andrzej Bialecki cc: Matthew Dillon , ADRIAN Filipi-Martin , Dan Busarow , Eivind Eklund , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Dec 1998 09:24:17 +0100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 10:20:57 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/picobsd/doc/UCI.html This looks very interesting . have you decided on a network protocol or do you think that you will need a new network protocol? Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 10:25:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA28124 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:25:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gateway.cybernet.com (gateway.cybernet.com [192.245.33.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA28114; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:25:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nestorv@cybernet.com) Received: from cybernet.com (orion.cybernet.com [192.245.33.77]) by gateway.cybernet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA25384; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:49:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36643507.B24DFFF1@cybernet.com> Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 13:27:19 -0500 From: Nestor Voronka Reply-To: nestorv@cybernet.com Organization: Cybernet Systems Corp. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en-US,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Driver for GI SB1000 SurfBoard (internal cable modem) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------2DEDAB53207D2355459E5891" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------2DEDAB53207D2355459E5891 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have in my computer a General Instruments SB1000 SurfBoard cable modem that came with W95 drivers. However, I am unable to use it with my FreeBSD applications due to a lack of a driver. I did come across the Linux driver at http://www.jacksonville.net/~fventuri however it does not look that easy to adapt. Has anyone already done so or written a separate one? Please advise. Regards, Nestor Voronka --------------2DEDAB53207D2355459E5891 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="nestorv.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Nestor Voronka Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="nestorv.vcf" begin:vcard adr;dom:;;727 Airport Blvd.;Ann Arbor;MI;48108; n:Voronka;Nestor x-mozilla-html:TRUE org:Cybernet Systems Corp. version:2.1 email;internet:nestorv@cybernet.com title:Research Engineer tel;fax:(734) 668-8780 tel;work:(734) 668-2567 x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Nestor Voronka end:vcard --------------2DEDAB53207D2355459E5891-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 10:28:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA28554 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:28:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA28534 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:28:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id RAA02622; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 17:19:24 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199812011619.RAA02622@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: TCP bug To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 17:19:23 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199812011811.LAA00104@mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Dec 1, 98 11:11:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > In trying to track down why some boxes in my network can't connect to > certain WWW hosts, I determined that my FreeBSD is not routing the > packets for some reason. It's receiving them, and the firewall code > *thinks* it's passing them on, but tcpdump doesn't see these packets go > out on the wire. just to understand, what is the problem related to ? TCP as you say in the Subject, or IP (routing), or firewall ? Have you tried what happens by opening the firewall ? > Any clues? A number of FreeBSD boxes in my net have this problem, so it > would be nice to get this resolved. Note, I have Route-discovery ICMP btw: do the offending packets carry IP/TCP options by chance ? Just to have an idea what to look at in the code. luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 10:34:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA29264 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:34:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA29257 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:34:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA29280; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:34:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA00343; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:34:23 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:34:23 -0700 Message-Id: <199812011834.LAA00343@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TCP bug In-Reply-To: <199812011619.RAA02622@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> References: <199812011811.LAA00104@mt.sri.com> <199812011619.RAA02622@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > In trying to track down why some boxes in my network can't connect to > > certain WWW hosts, I determined that my FreeBSD is not routing the > > packets for some reason. It's receiving them, and the firewall code > > *thinks* it's passing them on, but tcpdump doesn't see these packets go > > out on the wire. > > just to understand, what is the problem related to ? The problem is related to the fact that I can't contact certain WWW machines from the 'internal ethernet' boxes. > TCP as you say in the Subject, or IP (routing), or firewall ? > Have you tried what happens by opening the firewall ? Yep, no difference. It appears my router box is not passing packets through to the boxes on the internal ethernet. I stuck the firewall on that box just to see if the TCP stack was getting the incoming packets, or if it was an external routing problem. It's not an external routing problem, but one inside of the FreeBSD router box. > > Any clues? A number of FreeBSD boxes in my net have this problem, so it > > would be nice to get this resolved. Note, I have Route-discovery ICMP > > btw: do the offending packets carry IP/TCP options by chance ? Just to > have an idea what to look at in the code. I have turned off TTCP if that's what you mean. The box in question trying to contact the net is running Win95 at this point, which I doubt has TTCP extensions, and the FreeBSD boxes both have it turned off. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 10:47:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00747 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:47:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA00737 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:47:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA12181; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:46:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd012059; Tue Dec 1 11:46:36 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA26117; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:46:21 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199812011846.LAA26117@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) To: adrian@ubergeeks.com Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 18:46:20 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, eivind@yes.no, rssh@grad.kiev.ua, grog@lemis.com, wes@softweyr.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "ADRIAN Filipi-Martin" at Dec 1, 98 01:56:31 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I guess we just see things differently. I view the rc?.d > directories and their name based ordering as a worse morass than the > monolithic BSD rc's. I rarely find them useful, and I rather like being > able to page through the rc and quickly know what's going on. This is no > longer possible once it is broken into 30 or 40 files. The point of the rc file discussion is to allow vendors to add things to it, not merely to allow users to understand it. As far as understanding goes, the SYSV stuff abstracts the concept of services from the concept of procedures required to control an individual service. If you go in toward your understanding from an architectural rather than a procedural view, you should in fact be happier with the SYSV approach (e.g., "I care *what* happens; not *how*"). The criticisms of the SYSV approach, especially in reference to Elvind's prototype (rather than the BSD status quo, which is rather indefensible from any angle save "stick in the mud"), are largely valid. But that's not the point. The SYSV approach is (A) better than what BSD has now in terms of modularity and third party extensibility and (B) *required* for Linux, IBCS2, and Solaris compatability for third party applications that need to hook into the startup and shutdown processes. Feel free to propose any other approach that meets those same design constraints and isn't the SYSV init system, and I think you will find a lot of support. But it's unconsciable to do nothing and to let opportunities like those expressed in Larry Ellison's COMDEX keynote pass FreeBSD by because of FreeBSD being stuck in the mud. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 10:57:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA02520 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:57:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA02514 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:57:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA18286; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:57:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd018258; Tue Dec 1 11:57:32 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA26942; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:57:30 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199812011857.LAA26942@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) To: adrian@ubergeeks.com Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 18:57:30 +0000 (GMT) Cc: eivind@yes.no, rssh@grad.kiev.ua, grog@lemis.com, dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "ADRIAN Filipi-Martin" at Dec 1, 98 02:15:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm sorry if this looks like I'm picking on you, but... [ ... Elvind's code ... ] > Well, I took a look. It seems that most of what we are arguing > about has little bearing on your implementation. No start/stop scripts > nor run-levels. > > While your code no doubt works and does the right think, I see two > problems with it. First, it cannot be flipped through and explained in > less than 10 minutes. While I can parse that fancy for-loop in the rc, I > think this would send any newbie screaming for their mother. The old rc's > aren't that opaque. I think this is specious. A newbie should not be mucking about in something as complicated as bringing up all the layered system services in the correct order. And clearly, the code would need to be documented. > Second, the dynamic ordering of dependencies is nice, but having > the ordering information spread accross every file in rc.d makes it very > hard to speak with authority on just what is going to happen and in what > order. Pulling this ordering information up into a central place would be > much prefered. I also content that it would be more maintainable over the > long haul. I believe this could be addressed with a "-n" option, where it tells you what it would do, but doesn't actually do it. In other words, it's an implementation detail, and fairly irrelevent. > I'd argue more for maintaining a list of rc's to run in rc.conf or > the top level rc itself. Something like the following: > > scripts="" > scripts="${scripts} ccdconfig" > scripts="${scripts} swapon" > scripts="${scripts} autoboot" > scripts="${scripts} mount_root" > scripts="${scripts} mount_local" > scripts="${scripts} start_net" > scripts="${scripts} mount_nfs" > ... > scripts="${scripts} rc.local" > > for i in ${scripts}; do > /etc/rc.d/$i start > done > > The order of execution is easily grasped. For rc.shutdown, all > you need to do is reverse the list and loop with "stop" as the argument. This fails to represent the fact that you shouldn't start something which consumes "syslog" services before you start "syslogd", or a fax-to-mail gateway that consumes "SMTP" services before the SMTP server. It also fails to communicate that my SMTP services may be provided by one of a number of vendors: sendmail, qmail, post.office, etc., or that fact that I really don't *care* who provides the SMTP services, so long as *someone* provides them, *and* that they are provided before my daemon is started, and that my daemon is shutdown before access to those services are revoked. Finally, it fails to be extensible in the face of a read-only root partition, and, in some situations, NFS based mounts following a netboot (what Sun calls "diskless" and "dataless" configurations, what Oracle calls a "network computer", and what Corel calls a "netwinder"). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 12:09:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA11498 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:09:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oahu.tdiinc.com (oahu.tdiinc.com [206.40.33.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA11492 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:09:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wang@tdiinc.com) Received: from jupiter.tdiinc.com (jupiter.tdiinc.com [10.1.16.2]) by oahu.tdiinc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA12656 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:03:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from tdiinc.com (mariposa.tdiinc.com [10.1.16.26]) by jupiter.tdiinc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA10455 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:11:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36644F7D.7101F716@tdiinc.com> Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 12:20:14 -0800 From: Xiangzhou wang X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: how to get hardware info Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Is anyone know how to write a program to collect hardware info on a running freeBSD system, like disk, CPU etc. Thank you. Fox To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 12:15:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA12100 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:15:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA12093 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:15:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA05320; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:18:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:18:32 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Xiangzhou wang cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to get hardware info In-Reply-To: <36644F7D.7101F716@tdiinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Xiangzhou wang wrote: > Hi, > > Is anyone know how to write a program to collect hardware info on a > running freeBSD system, like disk, CPU etc. > Thank you. > > Fox If you are using 3.0 take a look at the manpage for devstat. you'll have to link your programs with: -ldevstat to use these functions. -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 12:19:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA12453 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:19:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA12448 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:19:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost by echonyc.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA19880; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:18:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:18:54 -0500 (EST) From: Snob Art Genre Reply-To: ben@rosengart.com To: Alfred Perlstein cc: Xiangzhou wang , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to get hardware info In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > If you are using 3.0 take a look at the manpage for devstat. dmesg is also good, and is supported on all versions of FreeBSD, and many other unixes too. It only gives you boot-time information, but on most systems your hardware shouldn't change much between boots. Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 13:37:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA20019 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:37:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (s205m64.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20012 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:37:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA08132; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:36:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:36:57 -0800 (PST) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199812012136.NAA08132@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wang@tdiinc.com Subject: Re: how to get hardware info In-Reply-To: <36644F7D.7101F716@tdiinc.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 12:20:14 -0800 >From: Xiangzhou wang >Is anyone know how to write a program to collect hardware info on a >running freeBSD system, like disk, CPU etc. I sympathize with the question. I've been sysadmin for a few other systems, for which sysinfo proved quite handy. Unfortunately, I couldn't figure out how to get at the information that sysinfo reports for FreeBSD, so I could port sysinfo to FreeBSD, and thus just use the same tool on each of the systems I administer to get a fairly consistent report of the system configuration. Someone else suggested the "dmesg" program (and, quite correctly, mentioned that it's available on several other flavors of UNIX). One thing that wasn't apparent to me until someone pointed it out to me is that by default, reasonably current FreeBSD systems write the output of "dmesg" just after boot time to /var/run/dmesg.boot. It may well be easier or more useful for you to be able to examine a file, rather than the output of a process. david -- David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 13:53:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21886 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:53:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA21881 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:53:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA10746; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:53:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:53:02 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199812012153.NAA10746@apollo.backplane.com> To: Nate Williams Cc: Luigi Rizzo , nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TCP bug References: <199812011811.LAA00104@mt.sri.com> <199812011619.RAA02622@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> <199812011834.LAA00343@mt.sri.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : :> > In trying to track down why some boxes in my network can't connect to :> > certain WWW hosts, I determined that my FreeBSD is not routing the :> > packets for some reason. It's receiving them, and the firewall code :> > *thinks* it's passing them on, but tcpdump doesn't see these packets go :> > out on the wire. :> :> just to understand, what is the problem related to ? : :... : :Yep, no difference. It appears my router box is not passing packets :through to the boxes on the internal ethernet. I stuck the firewall on :that box just to see if the TCP stack was getting the incoming packets, :... :Nate I've noticed that FreeBSD doesn't always bind the local side of the connection to the outgoing interface but instead binds the local side of the connection to some other interface. For example, if I have two interfaces and I telnet out, FreeBSD might not use the outgoing interface's IP address for the local address and instead might use the other interface's IP address. This can wreak havoc with firewalls and isolated subnets. I don't know if FreeBSD-current has this problem, but FreeBSD-stable definitely did. -Matt Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications & God knows what else. (Please include original email in any response) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 13:56:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22240 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:56:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA22231 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:56:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA00937; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:55:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA01489; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:55:18 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:55:18 -0700 Message-Id: <199812012155.OAA01489@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Nate Williams , Luigi Rizzo , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TCP bug In-Reply-To: <199812012153.NAA10746@apollo.backplane.com> References: <199812011811.LAA00104@mt.sri.com> <199812011619.RAA02622@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> <199812011834.LAA00343@mt.sri.com> <199812012153.NAA10746@apollo.backplane.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > :> > In trying to track down why some boxes in my network can't connect to > :> > certain WWW hosts, I determined that my FreeBSD is not routing the > :> > packets for some reason. It's receiving them, and the firewall code > :> > *thinks* it's passing them on, but tcpdump doesn't see these packets go > :> > out on the wire. .... > :Yep, no difference. It appears my router box is not passing packets > :through to the boxes on the internal ethernet. I stuck the firewall on > :that box just to see if the TCP stack was getting the incoming packets, > > I've noticed that FreeBSD doesn't always bind the local side of the > connection to the outgoing interface but instead binds the local side > of the connection to some other interface. ??? > > For example, if I have two interfaces and I telnet out, FreeBSD might > not use the outgoing interface's IP address for the local address and > instead might use the other interface's IP address. This is not the case here, because the machine who's packets are getting whacked has only one interface (the internel ethernet device). Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 14:27:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25921 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:27:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25899 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:26:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id XAA12670 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 23:26:24 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id 592141536; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 23:10:41 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 23:10:41 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to get hardware info Message-ID: <19981201231041.A12789@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.94.16i In-Reply-To: ; from Snob Art Genre on Tue, Dec 01, 1998 at 03:18:54PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#4856 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Snob Art Genre: > dmesg is also good, and is supported on all versions of FreeBSD, and > many other unixes too. It is better to use /var/run/dmesg.boot because the kernel buffer will get filled by messages, slowly replacing the boot messages. 764 [22:26] root@keltia:~# dmesg 15 on pci0.9.0 ncr0: rev 0x03 int a irq 9 on pci0.11.0 ncr1: rev 0x12 int a irq 11 on pci0.12.0 Probing for devices on the ISA bus: VESA: v2.0, 2048k memory, flags:0x1, mode table:0xf022464e (1000022) ... See how I've lost the beginning of the boot messages ? -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #2: Sun Nov 8 01:22:20 CET 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 14:30:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA26496 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:30:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [195.187.243.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA26487 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:30:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA11788; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 23:34:16 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 23:34:15 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: Amancio Hasty cc: Matthew Dillon , ADRIAN Filipi-Martin , Dan Busarow , Eivind Eklund , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) In-Reply-To: <199812011820.KAA11627@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/picobsd/doc/UCI.html > > This looks very interesting . have you decided on a network protocol or > do you think that you will need a new network protocol? No, I haven't decided yet almost anything... I thought about SNMP. Well, this is still a proposal only - a food for thought. But I'd love to hear comments on this, and suggestions. Eventually, I'll try to implement parts of it... Andrzej Bialecki -------------------- ++-------++ ------------------------------------- ||PicoBSD|| FreeBSD in your pocket? Go and see: Research & Academic |+-------+| "Small & Embedded FreeBSD" Network in Poland | |TT~~~| | http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ -------------------- ~-+==---+-+ ------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 14:53:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA28771 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:53:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (sj-dsl-9-129-138.dspeed.net [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA28761 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:53:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA19705 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:52:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199812012252.OAA19705@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: dhcpd + ppp setup? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 14:52:54 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Does anyone have a pointer to how to setup dhcpd with ppp ? Tnks, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 15:37:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA04282 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:37:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thelab.hub.org (nat1001.mpoweredpc.net [142.177.191.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA04272 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:37:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA00923 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:37:42 -0400 (AST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:37:41 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: pthread_cancel() function... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm working on getting acapd compiled under FreeBSD, and have hit a snag. It uses pthread_cancel(): ============================= /* * At this point, current_thread should point to the pthread_t which * would've contained the id of the thread we failed to create. */ for (cleanup_thread = (*queue)->thread_ids + concurrency - 1; current_thread < cleanup_thread; cleanup_thread--) pthread_cancel(*cleanup_thread); /* Now that they're all canceled, we wait for them to finish. */ for (cleanup_thread = (*queue)->thread_ids + concurrency; current_thread < cleanup_thread; cleanup_thread--) pthread_join(*cleanup_thread, &status); /* * Now that they're all finished and not accessing our queue, we can get * on with mopping things up... */ } ============================= The closest I can find is pthread_detach(), but according to the man page for pthread_cancel under Solaris, tehy aren't quite the same... Anyone with experience with this that can comment? Thanks.. Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 17:57:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA20437 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 17:57:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA20432 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 17:57:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA07037; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:05:09 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199812020205.NAA07037@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: pthread_cancel() function... In-Reply-To: from The Hermit Hacker at "Dec 1, 98 07:37:41 pm" To: scrappy@hub.org (The Hermit Hacker) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:05:08 +1100 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The Hermit Hacker wrote: > The closest I can find is pthread_detach(), but according to the man page for pthread_cancel under Solaris, tehy aren't quite the same... > > Anyone with experience with this that can comment? pthread_cancel() requires tests at each of the cancellation points in the functions that the standard nominates. Every time I implement something like this, I suffer from the mail sent to me by developers who say "there's no bugs in my code and it works on such-n-such, so your code is broken". The use of pthread_cancel() in an application often causes resource locking problems (or rather, problems with resources not being unlocked before the thread is killed). It is an optional part of the standard, which sort-of implies that applications shouldn't _require_ it. Are you sure it's not optional in your application? -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 18:21:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22440 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 18:21:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from TomQNX.tomqnx.com (cpu2745.adsl.bellglobal.com [207.236.55.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA22434 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 18:21:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@tomqnx.com) Received: by TomQNX.tomqnx.com (Smail3.2 #1) id m0zl1uX-000I5dC; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:21:01 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: From: tom@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance at home) Subject: USERCONFIG_BOOT To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:21:01 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is there some reason why this option has not been incorporated into the current source tree? Tom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 18:26:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22832 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 18:26:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA22802 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 18:25:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4009.ime.net [209.90.195.19]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA14614 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:25:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981201212020.00b67120@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 21:21:44 -0500 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: RE: BKTR0 device Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Did the brooktree driver get nixed from the cvs a few days ago? I did cvsup, make world, and then when I built my kernel (even cleared out the folder and did it) it says that it can't find like 4 of the headers.. so I removed it for the time being.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 18:46:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA24247 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 18:46:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pcnet1.pcnet.com (pcnet1.pcnet.com [204.213.232.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA24242 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 18:46:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: (from eischen@localhost) by pcnet1.pcnet.com (8.8.7/PCNet) id VAA06152; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:45:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:45:31 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Eischen Message-Id: <199812020245.VAA06152@pcnet1.pcnet.com> To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com, nate@mt.sri.com Subject: Re: TCP bug Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > In trying to track down why some boxes in my network can't connect to > certain WWW hosts, I determined that my FreeBSD is not routing the > packets for some reason. It's receiving them, and the firewall code > *thinks* it's passing them on, but tcpdump doesn't see these packets go > out on the wire. I've got a router with 4 interfaces, both public and private, ipfw and NATD, 2.2.7-stable and no problems. I did have similar problems as you're describing, and it turned out that some of the systems on one network didn't have the correct netmasks set. They were being directed to the router, but the netmask was wrong and the router didn't know what to do with them. For instance, from network A I tried to ping a system on network B. Using tcpdump I could see the packets go through the router from the network A interface, out the network B interface, and then see the replies from the network B interface, and there they would stop without going back to network A. Dan Eischen eischen@vigrid.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 19:07:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA26384 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:07:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (ppp3.portal.net.au [202.12.71.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA26378 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:07:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02102; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:05:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812020305.TAA02102@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: tom@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance at home) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USERCONFIG_BOOT In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Dec 1998 21:21:01 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 19:05:46 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Is there some reason why this option has not > been incorporated into the current source tree? It's obsolete, and was removed. See the commit logs for sys/i386/i386/userconfig.c and the HEADS UP that I posted to the -current list (which as a -current user you *must* be reading). -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 19:12:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA26970 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:12:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA26965 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:12:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA01555; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:13:43 -0800 (PST) To: Mark Dawson cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, dwj@agw.bt.co.uk Subject: Re: Compaq SMART RAID 'ida' driver updated for FreeBSD-3.0 In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Dec 1998 13:17:04 GMT." <3663EC50.5C67149C@doc.ic.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 19:13:43 -0800 Message-ID: <1551.912568423@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > It would be great if the FreeBSD team would allocate us major and minor > device numbers for the 'id' (Intelligent Disk [Array]) as this would We only need to do the majors - the minors are up to you. :-) I assume this is a block device? You now have major #29. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 19:14:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA27169 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:14:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA27164 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:14:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA01589; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:16:14 -0800 (PST) To: Nick Hibma cc: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: major/minor numbers In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Dec 1998 14:30:04 +0100." Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 19:16:14 -0800 Message-ID: <1585.912568574@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > For USB support I need at least 1 but possible 3 or more major numbers. OK, you don't say whether it's a block or char device, but I'll assume the latter for USB. :-) You have #108. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 19:56:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA00746 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:56:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA00731 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:56:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA01962 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:58:39 -0800 (PST) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 19:58:38 -0800 Message-ID: <1958.912571118@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Today is December 1st (in my timezone, anyway) and we're rapidly running out of year. When we brought this up 6 months or so ago, the general concensus seemed to be that we'd make *some* sort of decision on which way to go by the end of the year. Well, here we are. It's not like our brethren OSes have exactly stood still in this department and what's worse is that we have numerous people standing in the wings just WANTING TO DO THE WORK if someone will only let them, one example being IPSec which is currently languishing in our PR database and has been freely discussed on forums like Daemon News (see http://www.daemonnews.org/199812/security.html). This fence rail is pointy and cold and I think we're all going to come down with an embarrassing medical condition if we keep sitting on it. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 20:30:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA04667 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 20:30:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail0.mailsender.net (mail0.mailsender.net [209.132.1.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA04634 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 20:30:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shoney@symmetricsolutions.com) Received: from symmetricsolutions.com (205.243.141.122) by mail0.mailsender.net; 1 Dec 1998 20:23:10 -0800 Message-ID: <3664C281.97518C57@symmetricsolutions.com> Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 22:30:59 -0600 From: Scott Honey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: [Fwd: vpo0 driver not displaying or functioning correctly] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Scott Honey wrote: > > I'm currently running a FreeBSD 3.0-Release box with a Intel 200mhz > with 32 megs ram. I'm running off of an ELF kernel. I'm trying to get the > vpo driver and ppc to work, when Itake the code from the LINT > configuration file and place it in my GENERIC config file: > > .... > #device lpt0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 vector lptintr > > .... > > controller scbus0 > device da0 > > .... > > controller ppbus0 > controller vpo0 at ppbus? > device nlpt0 at ppbus? > device plip0 at ppbus? > device ppi0 at ppbus? > device pps0 at ppbus? > > controller ppc0 at isa? disable port ? tty irq 7 vector ppcintr > > > when I apply this change to a GENERIC config file that I haven't > changed and I reboot my box, nothing happens, its like I didn't > even include it in my configuration. When I had 2.2.6 loaded up > it would tell me that it found the drive and stuff but now all it does > is continue on without a hint of the driver.Its hard to find any text > on the 3.0-release yet on the subject. Does anyone have a clue > what to do with this? I don't care if I get flamed for this question, > i've been trying to get this thing to work sence the release of 3.0 > and nothing helps. Any help is welcome. > In case anyone wants to know how to get their parallel zip drive to work ina 3.0-Release system, rem out the nlpt, plip, ppi, and pps devices, alsoremove the disable from the ppc0 controller. The new line should look as follows:controller ppc0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 vector ppcintrThe README document for ppbus and LINT configuration file don't tell youto rem out these devices and also doesn't tell you to remove the disable. -------------------------------------------------------- Scott Honey - shoney@symmetricsolutions.com -------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 20:48:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA06142 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 20:48:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (ppp3.portal.net.au [202.12.71.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA06131 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 20:48:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA02650; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 20:46:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812020446.UAA02650@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Scott Honey cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Fwd: vpo0 driver not displaying or functioning correctly] In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Dec 1998 22:30:59 CST." <3664C281.97518C57@symmetricsolutions.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 20:46:42 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > In case anyone wants to know how to get their parallel zip drive to > work ina 3.0-Release system, rem out the nlpt, plip, ppi, and pps > devices, alsoremove the disable from the ppc0 controller. The new line > should look as follows:controller ppc0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 vector You don't need to disable any of the other ppbus consumers. > The README document for ppbus and LINT configuration file don't > tell youto rem out these devices and also doesn't tell you to remove the > disable. It doesn't tell you to remove the other devices because you don't have to. It doesn't tell you to remove the 'disable' because it's assumed that anyone actually paying attention will have noticed it already. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 20:50:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA06300 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 20:50:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (ppp3.portal.net.au [202.12.71.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA06290 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 20:50:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA02671; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 20:48:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812020448.UAA02671@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: David Wolfskill cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wang@tdiinc.com Subject: Re: how to get hardware info In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Dec 1998 13:36:57 PST." <199812012136.NAA08132@pau-amma.whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 20:48:30 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >Is anyone know how to write a program to collect hardware info on a > >running freeBSD system, like disk, CPU etc. > > I sympathize with the question. I've been sysadmin for a few other > systems, for which sysinfo proved quite handy. Unfortunately, I > couldn't figure out how to get at the information that sysinfo reports > for FreeBSD, so I could port sysinfo to FreeBSD, and thus just use the > same tool on each of the systems I administer to get a fairly consistent > report of the system configuration. What information do you require? I think we've discussed this before; if I remember correctly I'm not convinced that your justification for having the information is really particularly useful, and worse the PC doesn't make it possible to get the information you want in the first place. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 20:57:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA06810 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 20:57:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thelab.hub.org (nat1001.mpoweredpc.net [142.177.191.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA06803 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 20:57:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA02917; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 00:57:14 -0400 (AST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 00:57:14 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: John Birrell cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pthread_cancel() function... In-Reply-To: <199812020205.NAA07037@cimlogic.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, John Birrell wrote: > The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > The closest I can find is pthread_detach(), but according to the man page for pthread_cancel under Solaris, tehy aren't quite the same... > > > > Anyone with experience with this that can comment? > > pthread_cancel() requires tests at each of the cancellation points in > the functions that the standard nominates. > > Every time I implement something like this, I suffer from the mail sent > to me by developers who say "there's no bugs in my code and it works on > such-n-such, so your code is broken". The use of pthread_cancel() in an > application often causes resource locking problems (or rather, problems > with resources not being unlocked before the thread is killed). It is > an optional part of the standard, which sort-of implies that applications > shouldn't _require_ it. Are you sure it's not optional in your application? Very sure, but the developer has been *very* receptive to fixes and patches that I've sent him...what would you suggest? Just replace with pthread_detach() if pthread_cancel() doesn't exist? Or something altogether different? Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 21:16:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA08970 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:16:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA08965 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:16:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA03964; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:16:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA03722; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:16:11 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:16:11 -0700 Message-Id: <199812020516.WAA03722@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Daniel Eischen Cc: dillon@apollo.backplane.com, nate@mt.sri.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Subject: Re: TCP bug In-Reply-To: <199812020245.VAA06152@pcnet1.pcnet.com> References: <199812020245.VAA06152@pcnet1.pcnet.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > In trying to track down why some boxes in my network can't connect to > > certain WWW hosts, I determined that my FreeBSD is not routing the > > packets for some reason. It's receiving them, and the firewall code > > *thinks* it's passing them on, but tcpdump doesn't see these packets go > > out on the wire. > > I've got a router with 4 interfaces, both public and private, ipfw > and NATD, 2.2.7-stable and no problems. I did have similar problems > as you're describing, and it turned out that some of the systems on > one network didn't have the correct netmasks set. The strange thing is that 90% of the hosts on the net work. It's those remaining 10% that don't work for some reason. (The masks appear to be set correctly though, else I wouldn't be able to get any traffic to the boxes...) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 21:20:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA09470 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:20:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bootp.sls.usu.edu (bootp.sls.usu.edu [129.123.82.251]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA09464 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:20:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kurto@bootp.sls.usu.edu) Received: (from kurto@localhost) by bootp.sls.usu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id WAA21706; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:19:54 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:19:54 -0700 (MST) From: Kurt Olsen Message-Id: <199812020519.WAA21706@bootp.sls.usu.edu> To: eischen@vigrid.com, nate@mt.sri.com Subject: Re: TCP bug Cc: dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Have you looked at turning off the TCP extensions? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 21:20:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA09571 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:20:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA09532 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:20:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA07636; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:28:15 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199812020528.QAA07636@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: pthread_cancel() function... In-Reply-To: from The Hermit Hacker at "Dec 2, 98 00:57:14 am" To: scrappy@hub.org (The Hermit Hacker) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:28:15 +1100 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The Hermit Hacker wrote: > Very sure, but the developer has been *very* receptive to fixes > and patches that I've sent him...what would you suggest? Just replace > with pthread_detach() if pthread_cancel() doesn't exist? Or something > altogether different? pthread_detach() just indicates to the system that the thread exit status and thread resources can be thrown away. The normal thing for one thread to do is to discover (by some mechanism, usually by accessing shared data) that another thread has exited. The running thread then joins to the other thread to get it's exit status and then detaches it. This is very different to pthread_cancel() which is intended for use when one thread wants to play god over other threads. If your application requires pthread_cancel() because there is no other means for the 'god' thread to tell other threads to exit, then we need to implement pthread_cancel(). 8-) Can you send me the URL for the application so I can have a look at how the thread cancellation is coded? This shouldn't be necessary, but experience has proven otherwise. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 21:26:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA10130 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:26:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thelab.hub.org (nat1001.mpoweredpc.net [142.177.191.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA10120 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:26:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA03224; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 01:26:01 -0400 (AST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 01:26:01 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: John Birrell cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pthread_cancel() function... In-Reply-To: <199812020528.QAA07636@cimlogic.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, John Birrell wrote: > The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > Very sure, but the developer has been *very* receptive to fixes > > and patches that I've sent him...what would you suggest? Just replace > > with pthread_detach() if pthread_cancel() doesn't exist? Or something > > altogether different? > > pthread_detach() just indicates to the system that the thread exit status > and thread resources can be thrown away. The normal thing for one thread > to do is to discover (by some mechanism, usually by accessing shared data) > that another thread has exited. The running thread then joins to the other > thread to get it's exit status and then detaches it. This is very different > to pthread_cancel() which is intended for use when one thread wants to play > god over other threads. If your application requires pthread_cancel() > because there is no other means for the 'god' thread to tell other threads > to exit, then we need to implement pthread_cancel(). 8-) Can you send > me the URL for the application so I can have a look at how the thread > cancellation is coded? This shouldn't be necessary, but experience has > proven otherwise. ftp://ftp.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/cyrus-mail/cyrus-acapd-v2.0a?.tar.gz As I said, the author is being very responsive to patches, so in the past day and a half, the ? has changed as I've submitted FreeBSD related patches to him... Thanks John... Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 21:29:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA10334 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:29:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA10329 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:29:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA04086; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:28:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA03921; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:28:43 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:28:43 -0700 Message-Id: <199812020528.WAA03921@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Kurt Olsen Cc: eischen@vigrid.com, nate@mt.sri.com, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Subject: Re: TCP bug In-Reply-To: <199812020519.WAA21706@bootp.sls.usu.edu> References: <199812020519.WAA21706@bootp.sls.usu.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Have you looked at turning off the TCP extensions? As I stated in my original reply to Luigi, they've been off since day one. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 21:42:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA11420 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:42:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail0.mailsender.net (mail0.mailsender.net [209.132.1.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA11415 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:42:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shoney@symmetricsolutions.com) Received: from symmetricsolutions.com (205.243.141.122) by mail0.mailsender.net; 1 Dec 1998 21:35:31 -0800 Message-ID: <3664D3B1.775483A8@symmetricsolutions.com> Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 23:44:17 -0600 From: Scott Honey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vpo0 driver not displaying or functioning correctly References: <199812020446.UAA02650@dingo.cdrom.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------E5574D95B003BF1628879FC3" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --------------E5574D95B003BF1628879FC3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike Smith wrote: > > The README document for ppbus and LINT configuration file don't > > tell youto rem out these devices and also doesn't tell you to remove the > > disable. > > It doesn't tell you to remove the other devices because you don't have > to. It doesn't tell you to remove the 'disable' because it's assumed > that anyone actually paying attention will have noticed it already. If you can get it to work without disabling the other devices I would liketo see it. Because without disabling the other devices you get these messages when you boot: Dec 1 20:21:04 synth /kernel: ppc: parallel port found at 0x378 Dec 1 20:21:04 synth /kernel: ppc0 at 0x378 irq 7 on isa Dec 1 20:21:04 synth /kernel: ppc0: SMC Dec 1 20:21:04 synth /kernel: FDC37C665GT chipset (EPP/PS2/NIBBLE) in COMPATIBLE mode Dec 1 20:21:04 synth /kernel: nlpt0: on ppbus 0 Dec 1 20:21:04 synth /kernel: nlpt0: Interrupt-driven port Dec 1 20:21:04 synth /kernel: ppi0: on ppbus 0 Dec 1 20:21:04 synth /kernel: lppps0: on ppbus 0 Dec 1 20:21:04 synth /kernel: plip0: on ppbus 0 It doesn't even say that the vpo driver is loading and when you try to mount the scsi device (sd0) it tells you that the Device is not configured. The ppbus does not detected the zip drive or If it does detect it, it doesn't configure any devices nodes for it. When I remove the other 4 devices and leave just the controllers and no devices for ppbus the boot messages are as follows: Dec 1 20:29:34 synth /kernel: ppc: parallel port found at 0x378 Dec 1 20:29:34 synth /kernel: ppc0 at 0x378 irq 7 on isa Dec 1 20:29:34 synth /kernel: ppc0: SMC Dec 1 20:29:34 synth /kernel: FDC37C665GT chipset (EPP/PS2/NIBBLE) in COMPATIBLE mode Dec 1 20:29:34 synth /kernel: vpo0: on ppbus 0 Dec 1 20:29:34 synth /kernel: vpo0: EPP 1.9 mode Wow, its finally being detected, gee if the ppbus is suppose to detected the Zip drive with all the other devices configured, than why doesn't it want to work. Either give me a logical reason why its not working in my case or check it out for yourself. Do you even have a parallel zip drive? One other thing: People come to these mailing lists to get help, not a attitude when we do something wrong. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Scott Honey CEO of Symmetric Solutions, Inc MCSE and Computer Programmer shoney@symmetricsolutions.com http://www.symmetricsolutions.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- --------------E5574D95B003BF1628879FC3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike Smith wrote:
> The README document for ppbus and LINT configuration file don't
> tell youto rem out these devices and also doesn't tell you to remove the
> disable.

It doesn't tell you to remove the other devices because you don't have
to.  It doesn't tell you to remove the 'disable' because it's assumed
that anyone actually paying attention will have noticed it already.

If you can get it to work without disabling the other devices I would liketo see it. Because without disabling the other devices you get these messages
when you boot:

Dec    1 20:21:04 synth /kernel: ppc: parallel port found at 0x378
Dec    1 20:21:04 synth /kernel: ppc0 at 0x378 irq 7 on isa
Dec    1 20:21:04 synth /kernel: ppc0: SMC
Dec    1 20:21:04 synth /kernel: FDC37C665GT chipset (EPP/PS2/NIBBLE) in COMPATIBLE mode
Dec    1 20:21:04 synth /kernel: nlpt0: <generic printer> on ppbus 0
Dec    1 20:21:04 synth /kernel: nlpt0: Interrupt-driven port
Dec    1 20:21:04 synth /kernel: ppi0: <generic parallel i/o> on ppbus 0
Dec    1 20:21:04 synth /kernel: lppps0: <Pulse per second Timing Interface> on ppbus 0
Dec    1 20:21:04 synth /kernel: plip0: <PLIP network interface> on ppbus 0

It doesn't even say that the vpo driver is loading and when you try to mount the scsi device (sd0) it tells you that the Device is not configured. The ppbus does not detected the zip drive or If it does detect it, it doesn't configure any devices nodes for it. When I remove the other 4 devices and leave just the controllers and no devices for ppbus the boot messages are as follows:

Dec    1 20:29:34 synth /kernel: ppc: parallel port found at 0x378
Dec    1 20:29:34 synth /kernel: ppc0 at 0x378 irq 7 on isa
Dec    1 20:29:34 synth /kernel: ppc0: SMC
Dec    1 20:29:34 synth /kernel: FDC37C665GT chipset (EPP/PS2/NIBBLE) in COMPATIBLE mode
Dec    1 20:29:34 synth /kernel: vpo0: <Iomega VPIO Parallel to SCSI interface> on ppbus 0
Dec    1 20:29:34 synth /kernel: vpo0: EPP 1.9 mode

Wow, its finally being detected, gee if the ppbus is suppose to detected the Zip drive with all the other
devices configured, than why doesn't it want to work. Either give me a logical reason why its not
working in my case or check it out for yourself. Do you even have a parallel zip drive?

One other thing: People come to these mailing lists to get help, not a attitude when we do something wrong.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Honey
CEO of Symmetric Solutions, Inc
MCSE and Computer Programmer
shoney@symmetricsolutions.com
http://www.symmetricsolutions.com
----------------------------------------------------------------   --------------E5574D95B003BF1628879FC3-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 21:55:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA12736 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:55:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sparks.net (gw.sparks.net [209.222.120.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA12728 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:55:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from david@sparks.net) Received: from david by sparks.net with smtp (Exim 1.62 #5) id 0zl5Ft-00076F-00; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 00:55:17 -0500 Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 00:55:17 -0500 (EST) From: To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: 2.2.6 Panic: Leaf should be empty Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello all:) I have a just-installed 2.2.6 system (sorry, I misplaced my 2.2.7 CD:( ) running a webserver for about a million hits/day (24/second during the daytime). The configuration is quite simple with 256 MB ram, Tyan 300 MHz P-II, and a pair of IBM 9.1 GB drives on a 2940UW. The system seems to crash on its own nearly once per day with the message: Panic: Leaf should be empty Every FreeBSD system I've installed has run very reliably. OTOH, this is the first system I've ever had fairly heavy NFS with. It's NFS cross mounted with some IRIX 6.2 and 6.4 systems. What is this error pointing to? Hardware? Is an upgrade to 2.2.7 stable likely to fix it? Thanks in advance:) --- David Miller ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's *amazing* what one can accomplish when one doesn't know what one can't do! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 22:07:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA13652 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:07:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thelab.hub.org (nat1001.mpoweredpc.net [142.177.191.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA13584 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:06:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA03564; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 02:05:46 -0400 (AST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 02:05:46 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: John Birrell cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pthread_cancel() function... In-Reply-To: <199812020528.QAA07636@cimlogic.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, John Birrell wrote: > The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > Very sure, but the developer has been *very* receptive to fixes > > and patches that I've sent him...what would you suggest? Just replace > > with pthread_detach() if pthread_cancel() doesn't exist? Or something > > altogether different? > > pthread_detach() just indicates to the system that the thread exit status > and thread resources can be thrown away. The normal thing for one thread > to do is to discover (by some mechanism, usually by accessing shared data) > that another thread has exited. The running thread then joins to the other > thread to get it's exit status and then detaches it. This is very different > to pthread_cancel() which is intended for use when one thread wants to play > god over other threads. If your application requires pthread_cancel() > because there is no other means for the 'god' thread to tell other threads > to exit, then we need to implement pthread_cancel(). 8-) Can you send > me the URL for the application so I can have a look at how the thread > cancellation is coded? This shouldn't be necessary, but experience has > proven otherwise. Just an FYI...I forwarded your comments about pthread_cancel() to Rob (the author), and he just sent back that he took it out, so we don't have to worry about implementing it afterall... Thanks for the help :) Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Dec 1 22:43:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA16611 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:43:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA16604 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:43:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA07891; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:21:20 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199812020621.RAA07891@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: pthread_cancel() function... In-Reply-To: from The Hermit Hacker at "Dec 2, 98 02:05:46 am" To: scrappy@hub.org (The Hermit Hacker) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:21:20 +1100 (EST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The Hermit Hacker wrote: > Just an FYI...I forwarded your comments about pthread_cancel() to > Rob (the author), and he just sent back that he took it out, so we don't > have to worry about implementing it afterall... > > Thanks for the help :) OK. I was having difficulty getting the packages it depends on. My ISP seems to be having problems. [ Back to my kld then. ] -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 01:06:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA27153 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 01:06:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA27052 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 01:05:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id HAA01716; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:55:17 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199812020655.HAA01716@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: TCP bug To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:55:17 +0100 (MET) Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199812011834.LAA00343@mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Dec 1, 98 11:34:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > just to understand, what is the problem related to ? > > The problem is related to the fact that I can't contact certain WWW > machines from the 'internal ethernet' boxes. > > > TCP as you say in the Subject, or IP (routing), or firewall ? > > Have you tried what happens by opening the firewall ? > > Yep, no difference. It appears my router box is not passing packets > through to the boxes on the internal ethernet. I stuck the firewall on > that box just to see if the TCP stack was getting the incoming packets, does a tcpdump on _both_ interfaces show anything interesting -- like pkts coming in and then not going out ? Do they have something strange (like some odd length, invalid checksums, IP options, etc.) which makes the router act strangely ? Is there a correct return route on the router box ? > > > Any clues? A number of FreeBSD boxes in my net have this problem, so it > > > would be nice to get this resolved. Note, I have Route-discovery ICMP > > > > btw: do the offending packets carry IP/TCP options by chance ? Just to > > have an idea what to look at in the code. > > I have turned off TTCP if that's what you mean. The box in question no, i meant if the remote machine you are trying to contact is sending you "unsolicited" IP options which make the router fail. Or, e.g., they send pkts larger than the MTU of the receiver/outgoing interface and with a "DF" flag set so the router has to dump the packet. cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 02:25:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA03632 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 02:25:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA03605; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 02:25:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA13404; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 02:25:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 02:25:09 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199812021025.CAA13404@apollo.backplane.com> To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: simple cvs mod to handle shared checked-out source trees Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I would like to submit the following new option to CVS for review. The new option, -g, forces a umask of 00x which is necessary when multiple users share a common checked-out source tree. If there are no significant objects, I will commit it. Note that this is different from multiple users operating out of the same CVSROOT. There are several common cases where you might want to have multiple users sharing a common checked-out source tree. For example, in our management of DNS records we allow certain staff members to make modifications to primary zone files. We do not want to have to duplicate the 30,000+ zone files for each user yet we DO want to keep those files under CVS control. The same problem occurs in our management of many other portions of our infrastructure. In anycase, to use the -g option effective, the user simply creates a ~/.cvsrc config file containing the line shown below, then runs CVS commands as per normal. --- cut here --- cvs -g --- cut here --- The only other way to do it is for the user to set his umask to, for example, 007. The problem with doing this is that the user's entire shell session then operates with that umask, which can be exceedingly dangerous. But CVS operations can be made group-writeable-safe trivially simply by being in a private group due by chgrp'ing the directory structure. Thus, having the cvs program set the umask (when given the -g option) can be made safe. (not included below are manual and error message diffs that also describe the new option). -Matt tick:/usr/src/contrib/cvs# diff -c src/LINK/main.c src/main.c *** src/LINK/main.c Tue Apr 7 16:19:50 1998 --- src/main.c Wed Dec 2 01:59:31 1998 *************** *** 479,485 **** opterr = 1; while ((c = getopt_long ! (argc, argv, "+QqrwtnRlvb:T:e:d:Hfz:s:xa", long_options, &option_i ndex)) != EOF) { switch (c) --- 479,485 ---- opterr = 1; while ((c = getopt_long ! (argc, argv, "+QqgrwtnRlvb:T:e:d:Hfz:s:xa", long_options, &option_ index)) != EOF) { switch (c) *************** *** 511,516 **** --- 511,522 ---- break; case 'w': cvswrite = 1; + break; + case 'g': + /* + * full group write perms + */ + umask(umask(077) & 007); break; case 't': Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications & God knows what else. (Please include original email in any response) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 03:04:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA06563 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 03:04:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from web4.rocketmail.com (web4.rocketmail.com [205.180.57.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA06558 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 03:04:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ee123@rocketmail.com) Message-ID: <19981202110107.12092.rocketmail@web4.rocketmail.com> Received: from [195.6.245.137] by web4; Wed, 02 Dec 1998 03:01:07 PST Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 03:01:07 -0800 (PST) From: EE Reply-To: ee123@rocketmail.com Subject: adding a 3com 905B driver on 2.2.7 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I need to add a 3com 905B ethernet card on a system with Freebsd 2.2.7 ( only supported on 2.2.8 ) Does anybody know how I must do to add driver? (which files, where, how...) Thanks a lot in advance. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 03:13:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA07423 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 03:13:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA07413 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 03:13:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id MAA29847; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:13:10 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:12:49 +0100 (MET) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: EE cc: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: adding a 3com 905B driver on 2.2.7 In-Reply-To: <19981202105910.5228.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Copy sys/pci/if_xl.c and sys/pci/if_xlreg.h (or the likes). Copy the section in file grep if_xl 2.2.7/sys/conf/files >> 2.2.8/sys/conf/files echo device xl0 >> 2.2.8/sys/i386/conf/KERNEL and reconfig/recompile. > I need to add a 3com 905B ethernet card on a system > with Freebsd 2.2.7 ( only supported on 2.2.8 ) > > Does anybody know how I must do to add driver? > (which files, where, how...) > > Thanks a lot in advance. > Cheers, Nick Hibma FreeBSD USB project -- The above are strictly my own opinions and not my employer's. e-mail: n_hibma@freebsd.org home page: http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/usb/usb.pl mailing list: usb-bsd@egroups.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 03:37:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA09425 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 03:37:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pcnet1.pcnet.com (pcnet1.pcnet.com [204.213.232.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA09416 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 03:37:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: (from eischen@localhost) by pcnet1.pcnet.com (8.8.7/PCNet) id GAA17901; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 06:36:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 06:36:56 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Eischen Message-Id: <199812021136.GAA17901@pcnet1.pcnet.com> To: eischen@vigrid.com, nate@mt.sri.com Subject: Re: TCP bug Cc: dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The strange thing is that 90% of the hosts on the net work. It's those > remaining 10% that don't work for some reason. > > (The masks appear to be set correctly though, else I wouldn't be able to > get any traffic to the boxes...) If 10% of your systems didn't have correct netmasks and default gateways set, then that's exactly what you'd see. You could get traffic to them, but just no replies through the router. If you sit at the router, can you ping those systems (assuming they can be pinged)? Dan Eischen eischen@vigrid.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 06:09:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA25555 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 06:09:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.tar.com (ns.tar.com [204.95.187.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA25546 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 06:09:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lists@tar.com) Received: from ppro.tar.com (ppro.tar.com [204.95.187.9]) by ns.tar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA03962; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:09:12 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from lists@tar.com) Message-Id: <199812021409.IAA03962@ns.tar.com> From: "Richard Seaman, Jr." To: "John Birrell" , "The Hermit Hacker" Cc: "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Date: Wed, 02 Dec 98 08:09:12 -0600 Reply-To: "Richard Seaman, Jr." X-Mailer: PMMail 1.92 For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: pthread_cancel() function... Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:05:08 +1100 (EST), John Birrell wrote: >The Hermit Hacker wrote: >> The closest I can find is pthread_detach(), but according to the man page for pthread_cancel under Solaris, tehy aren't quite the same... >> >> Anyone with experience with this that can comment? > >pthread_cancel() requires tests at each of the cancellation points in >the functions that the standard nominates. > >Every time I implement something like this, I suffer from the mail sent >to me by developers who say "there's no bugs in my code and it works on >such-n-such, so your code is broken". The use of pthread_cancel() in an >application often causes resource locking problems (or rather, problems >with resources not being unlocked before the thread is killed). It is >an optional part of the standard, which sort-of implies that applications >shouldn't _require_ it. Are you sure it's not optional in your application? I was under the impression that pthread_cancel was a manditory, not optional, part of both the POSIX and SS2 specifications. However, I agree it causes problems when used improperly, and it sure seems like implementing it is a royal pain in the you know what. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 07:01:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA01209 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:01:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA01202 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:01:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA07461; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:00:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA05468; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:00:48 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:00:48 -0700 Message-Id: <199812021500.IAA05468@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TCP bug In-Reply-To: <199812020655.HAA01716@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> References: <199812011834.LAA00343@mt.sri.com> <199812020655.HAA01716@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > just to understand, what is the problem related to ? > > > > The problem is related to the fact that I can't contact certain WWW > > machines from the 'internal ethernet' boxes. > > > > > TCP as you say in the Subject, or IP (routing), or firewall ? > > > Have you tried what happens by opening the firewall ? > > > > Yep, no difference. It appears my router box is not passing packets > > through to the boxes on the internal ethernet. I stuck the firewall on > > that box just to see if the TCP stack was getting the incoming packets, > > does a tcpdump on _both_ interfaces show anything interesting -- like > pkts coming in and then not going out ? Do they have something strange > (like some odd length, invalid checksums, IP options, etc.) which makes > the router act strangely ? Is there a correct return route > on the router box ? The original email had a tcpdump output on both interfaces. I can resend it if you like. I'm no tcpdump guru, so I was hoping someone else could help out. As far as routes, everything looks right, and almost all of my data gets through. It's just certain WWW sites that don't work. > > > > Any clues? A number of FreeBSD boxes in my net have this problem, so it > > > > would be nice to get this resolved. Note, I have Route-discovery ICMP > > > > > > btw: do the offending packets carry IP/TCP options by chance ? Just to > > > have an idea what to look at in the code. > > > > I have turned off TTCP if that's what you mean. The box in question > > no, i meant if the remote machine you are trying to contact is sending > you "unsolicited" IP options which make the router fail. Or, e.g., > they send pkts larger than the MTU of the receiver/outgoing interface > and with a "DF" flag set so the router has to dump the packet. ????? The only 'router' in question is my FreeBSD box. Again, I don't know how to read the output of tcpdump. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 07:03:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA01464 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:03:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA01459 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:03:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA07470; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:03:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA05503; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:03:10 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:03:10 -0700 Message-Id: <199812021503.IAA05503@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Daniel Eischen Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Subject: Re: TCP bug In-Reply-To: <199812021136.GAA17901@pcnet1.pcnet.com> References: <199812021136.GAA17901@pcnet1.pcnet.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > The strange thing is that 90% of the hosts on the net work. It's those > > remaining 10% that don't work for some reason. > > > > (The masks appear to be set correctly though, else I wouldn't be able to > > get any traffic to the boxes...) > > If 10% of your systems didn't have correct netmasks and default > gateways set, then that's exactly what you'd see. You could > get traffic to them, but just no replies through the router. No, 10% of machines out on the big bad Internet don't work. (I'm guessing at the 10% number. It may be higher/lower, but about 10% of the sites I try to contact don't work.) 90% of the sites *OUTSIDE MY NETWORK* that I attempt to contact on these internal machines work, and all of my network machines can talk to one another. > If you sit at the router, can you ping those systems (assuming > they can be pinged)? If I sit on the machine who can't make the WWW connections I can ping the remote sites if they haven't blocked out ICMP packets to me. I simply can't make TCP connections to them. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 07:12:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA02112 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:12:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lorax.ubergeeks.com (lorax.ubergeeks.com [206.205.41.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA02107 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:12:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by lorax.ubergeeks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA09298; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:11:39 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:11:38 -0500 (EST) From: ADRIAN Filipi-Martin Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: Richard Wackerbarth cc: Eivind Eklund , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > [ in /etc/rc ] > > ... > > . /etc/rc.conf > if [ X"auto_sequence_scripts_enable" = X"YES" ] ; then > /etc/rc.rebuild_script_sequence > fi > . /etc/rc.script_sequence > > > - - - > [ in /etc/rc.rebuild_script_sequence ] > [A variant of Eivind's code whech generates ...] > > - - - > [ in /etc/rc.script_sequence ] > lines (in the desired order) such as > > . /etc/rc.d/network1 > > /usr/local/etc/rc.d/apache start > > - - - > > I see a few complaints about this scheme. > > 1) It certainly is a lot of effort to handle > the common case where the startup script is > so short that it nomally included inline. > > 2) This scheme would require that the /etc/rc.script_sequence file > be writeable. > > 3) We need a scheme that automatically defaults scripts > which have no sequencing info to the end of the sequence > > 4) We need to be able to postpone major portions of the > sequence until external events occur. In particular, consider > PCMCIA ethernet interface cards that "appear" some time after > the card deamon is started. We need to delay network services > until the card appears. Further, we may need to delay ntpdate > until a default route has had time to be discovered. Somewhat interesting. Since I'm getting tired of aguing my stick-in-the mud views, I'll shut up for a while until I can put some code where my mouth is. I figured I'd write my own SVR-like rc setup that doesn't have most of the features I, and others, find so annoying. I hope to finish it in the next day or so. It can be considered as another way of getting things done in a SVR-like manner. As I see it alternative implementations are always a good thing. _If_ we are to go with a SVR compatible rc, then a bake-off would be a good idea to get as many people to contribute their ideas on the issue. cheers, Adrian -- [ adrian@ubergeeks.com -- Ubergeeks Consulting -- http://www.ubergeeks.com/ ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 07:19:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA02657 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:19:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lorax.ubergeeks.com (lorax.ubergeeks.com [206.205.41.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA02652 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:19:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by lorax.ubergeeks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA09311; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:17:34 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:17:34 -0500 (EST) From: ADRIAN Filipi-Martin Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: Terry Lambert cc: dyson@iquest.net, eivind@yes.no, rssh@grad.kiev.ua, grog@lemis.com, wes@softweyr.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) In-Reply-To: <199812011846.LAA26117@usr07.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > The criticisms of the SYSV approach, especially in reference to > Elvind's prototype (rather than the BSD status quo, which is rather > indefensible from any angle save "stick in the mud"), are largely > valid. But that's not the point. The SYSV approach is (A) better Just constructive criticism. If we go this route, we need to do a superlative job for it to gain complete acceptance. > Feel free to propose any other approach that meets those same > design constraints and isn't the SYSV init system, and I think > you will find a lot of support. But it's unconsciable to do I actually kept quiet yesterday, so I could hack on an implementation that doesn't bother me quite so much. I hope to have something to show in a day or so after some testing. cheers, Adrian -- [ adrian@ubergeeks.com -- Ubergeeks Consulting -- http://www.ubergeeks.com/ ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 07:29:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA03892 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:29:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lorax.ubergeeks.com (lorax.ubergeeks.com [206.205.41.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA03882 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:29:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by lorax.ubergeeks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA09340; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:26:43 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:26:43 -0500 (EST) From: ADRIAN Filipi-Martin Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: Terry Lambert cc: eivind@yes.no, rssh@grad.kiev.ua, grog@lemis.com, dyson@iquest.net, wes@softweyr.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) In-Reply-To: <199812011857.LAA26942@usr07.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Second, the dynamic ordering of dependencies is nice, but having > > the ordering information spread accross every file in rc.d makes it very > > hard to speak with authority on just what is going to happen and in what > > order. Pulling this ordering information up into a central place would be > > much prefered. I also content that it would be more maintainable over the > > long haul. > > I believe this could be addressed with a "-n" option, where it tells > you what it would do, but doesn't actually do it. In other words, > it's an implementation detail, and fairly irrelevent. Great minds think alike. It's already in the version I'm working on. > > scripts="" > > scripts="${scripts} ccdconfig" > > scripts="${scripts} swapon" > > scripts="${scripts} autoboot" > > scripts="${scripts} mount_root" > > scripts="${scripts} mount_local" > > scripts="${scripts} start_net" > > scripts="${scripts} mount_nfs" > > ... > > scripts="${scripts} rc.local" > > > > for i in ${scripts}; do > > /etc/rc.d/$i start > > done > > > > The order of execution is easily grasped. For rc.shutdown, all > > you need to do is reverse the list and loop with "stop" as the argument. > > This fails to represent the fact that you shouldn't start something > which consumes "syslog" services before you start "syslogd", or a > fax-to-mail gateway that consumes "SMTP" services before the SMTP > server. I wasn't going to do dependencies, but I might think about it. They way I'm working things, it should be easy to at add the end. > Finally, it fails to be extensible in the face of a read-only root > partition, and, in some situations, NFS based mounts following a My implementation will be less naive. Thanks for the input. Adrian -- [ adrian@ubergeeks.com -- Ubergeeks Consulting -- http://www.ubergeeks.com/ ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 07:50:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA05802 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:50:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from netvisor.hu (mmtp86.mit.bme.hu [152.66.81.166]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA05782 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:50:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from szoli@netvisor.hu) Received: from localhost (szoli@localhost) by netvisor.hu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA22458 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:51:05 +0100 Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:51:05 +0100 (CET) From: Memphisto X-Sender: szoli@linux.intranet.netvisor.hu To: FreeBSD hackers mailinglist Subject: Question on pthreads. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id HAA05798 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm currently trying to compile a threaded app on FreeBSD. The problem is that this app uses a function called pthread_setcancelstate() which is declared in , but I just can't link the app, because this function doesn't seem to exist in the libc_r library. What can I do know? Am I wrong and it does exist or shall I compile the MIT patched pthreads library? Thanks in advance -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sebestyén Zoltán AKA Memphisto It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up. szoli@netvisor.hu But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid? MAKE INSTALL NOT WAR And please avoid Necrosoft Widows -- Eagerly waiting for FreeBSD 2.2.8 -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 07:52:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA06119 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:52:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA06094 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:52:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA03173; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:51:56 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id QAA16239; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:51:55 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981202165155.B21015@follo.net> Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:51:55 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? References: <1958.912571118@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <1958.912571118@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Tue, Dec 01, 1998 at 07:58:38PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Dec 01, 1998 at 07:58:38PM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Today is December 1st (in my timezone, anyway) and we're rapidly > running out of year. When we brought this up 6 months or so ago, the > general concensus seemed to be that we'd make *some* sort of decision > on which way to go by the end of the year. Well, here we are. It's > not like our brethren OSes have exactly stood still in this department > and what's worse is that we have numerous people standing in the wings > just WANTING TO DO THE WORK if someone will only let them, one example > being IPSec which is currently languishing in our PR database and has > been freely discussed on forums like Daemon News (see > http://www.daemonnews.org/199812/security.html). > > This fence rail is pointy and cold and I think we're all going to come > down with an embarrassing medical condition if we keep sitting on it. Since nobody else seems to want to say anything: KAME. My impression is that it is more mature _and_ have more developers (both from among our own committers and in general). Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 07:57:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA06655 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:57:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA06650 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:57:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonny@jonny.eng.br) Received: from roma.coe.ufrj.br (roma.coe.ufrj.br [146.164.53.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA14153 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:57:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by roma.coe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16748; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:54:20 -0200 (EDT) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199812021554.NAA16748@roma.coe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: AHA 1542 and 3.0-RELEASE? In-Reply-To: <199811301314.IAA00460@lakes.dignus.com> from Thomas David Rivers at "Nov 30, 98 08:14:17 am" To: rivers@dignus.com (Thomas David Rivers) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:54:20 -0200 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG #define quoting(Thomas David Rivers) // It seems my AHA 1542 no longer works with 3.0-RELEASE; with the // distributed kernel or a rebuilt one... // // I seem to recall someone mentioning this, and that it was some kind // of config issue - or something simple. What's your card I/O address ? It did not work with 0x??4 addresses. IIRC, this has been fixed recently. Jonny -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis M.Sc. Student jonny@jonny.eng.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro "This .sig is not meant to be politically correct." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 08:00:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA06827 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:00:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA06822 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:00:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA03211; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:53:52 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id QAA16263; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:53:52 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981202165352.C21015@follo.net> Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:53:52 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Drew Baxter , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BKTR0 device References: <4.1.19981201212020.00b67120@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981201212020.00b67120@genesis.ispace.com>; from Drew Baxter on Tue, Dec 01, 1998 at 09:21:44PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Dec 01, 1998 at 09:21:44PM -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > Did the brooktree driver get nixed from the cvs a few days ago? I did > cvsup, make world, and then when I built my kernel (even cleared out the > folder and did it) it says that it can't find like 4 of the headers.. so I > removed it for the time being.. Read LINT. General advice (to _everybody_ that reads this): Don't post until you've verified your configuration. The world is not standing still. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 08:19:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA08585 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:19:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu (bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu [128.226.1.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA08580 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:19:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bf20761@binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (bf20761@localhost) by bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA25016 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:19:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:19:03 -0500 (EST) From: zhihuizhang X-Sender: bf20761@bingsun2 To: hackers Subject: Interrupt handler and interrupt unit? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the source code isa.c, I find the definition of intr_unit[]. I have no idea what is an interrupt unit and how it is used. Maybe it refers to one of several device units connected by a single controller and that controller is assigned one IRQ by OS or hardware jumpers? Also, I want to know what specific information is passed to the system when an interrupt occurs. I read in a book on device driver, it only says this is OS and hardware dependent. I hope someone can give me enlightment on the above two points. Thanks a lot. -------------------------------------------------- | Zhihui Zhang, http://cs.binghamton.edu/~zzhang | | Dept. of Computer Science, SUNY at Binghamton | -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 08:20:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA08748 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:20:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pcnet1.pcnet.com (pcnet1.pcnet.com [204.213.232.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA08735 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:20:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: (from eischen@localhost) by pcnet1.pcnet.com (8.8.7/PCNet) id LAA26261; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:19:44 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:19:44 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Eischen Message-Id: <199812021619.LAA26261@pcnet1.pcnet.com> To: jb@cimlogic.com.au, lists@tar.com, scrappy@hub.org Subject: Re: pthread_cancel() function... Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I was under the impression that pthread_cancel was a manditory, > not optional, part of both the POSIX and SS2 specifications. However, > I agree it causes problems when used improperly, and it sure seems > like implementing it is a royal pain in the you know what. I have the guts of it implemented, but just haven't wrapped all (any) of the system calls defined as cancellation points. I put it on the back burner to do other things first. If someone wants to finish it before I get back to it, let me know and I'll try to clean it up and make it available. Dan Eischen eischen@vigrid.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 08:26:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA09230 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:26:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pcnet1.pcnet.com (pcnet1.pcnet.com [204.213.232.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA09225 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:26:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: (from eischen@localhost) by pcnet1.pcnet.com (8.8.7/PCNet) id LAA27156; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:26:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:26:06 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Eischen Message-Id: <199812021626.LAA27156@pcnet1.pcnet.com> To: eischen@vigrid.com, nate@mt.sri.com Subject: Re: TCP bug Cc: dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > No, 10% of machines out on the big bad Internet don't work. (I'm > guessing at the 10% number. It may be higher/lower, but about 10% of > the sites I try to contact don't work.) > > 90% of the sites *OUTSIDE MY NETWORK* that I attempt to contact on these > internal machines work, and all of my network machines can talk to one > another. OK, I got it now ;-) > > If you sit at the router, can you ping those systems (assuming > > they can be pinged)? > > If I sit on the machine who can't make the WWW connections I can ping > the remote sites if they haven't blocked out ICMP packets to me. I > simply can't make TCP connections to them. That's pretty strange. So the router can't make TCP connections to these sites either? Dan Eischen eischen@vigrid.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 08:31:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA09852 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:31:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.gtn.com (mail.gtn.com [194.77.0.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA09845 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:31:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mail.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id RAA11043; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:30:04 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA32126; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:28:29 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19981202172824.A23747@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:28:24 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: Eivind Eklund , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? References: <1958.912571118@zippy.cdrom.com> <19981202165155.B21015@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19981202165155.B21015@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Wed, Dec 02, 1998 at 04:51:55PM +0100 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Dec 02, 1998 at 04:51:55PM +0100, Eivind Eklund wrote: > Since nobody else seems to want to say anything: KAME. My impression > is that it is more mature _and_ have more developers (both from among > our own committers and in general). Sounds good for me, since I had this feeling as well. To second that. I just visited their Web server and I have the feeling that people are really working on it and the packages they offer sound good and are up to date. The offer -STABLE source and -CURRENT Snaps. Things they are working on is: - IPv6 - IPsec - advanced packet queuing, ATM, mobility,.... Other good signs are the availability for all BSD variants and the interest of companies like: Fujitsu Limited Hitachi, Ltd. IIJ Research Laboratory NEC Corporation Toshiba Corporation Yokogawa Digital Computer Corporation (YDC) Yokogawa Electric Corporation That generally sounds good and if the technical things are good as well then go for it .... Other voices ? Certainly, just wondering that this thread is so terse ... is everybody already in holidays ?! ;-) -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas What gives you 90% more speed, for example, in kernel compilation ? http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html "NT = Not Today" (Maggie Biggs) ``powered by FreeBSD SMP'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 08:36:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA10471 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:36:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA10466 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:36:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA08209; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 09:36:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA06068; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 09:36:05 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 09:36:05 -0700 Message-Id: <199812021636.JAA06068@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Daniel Eischen Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Subject: Re: TCP bug In-Reply-To: <199812021626.LAA27156@pcnet1.pcnet.com> References: <199812021626.LAA27156@pcnet1.pcnet.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > No, 10% of machines out on the big bad Internet don't work. (I'm > > guessing at the 10% number. It may be higher/lower, but about 10% of > > the sites I try to contact don't work.) > > > > 90% of the sites *OUTSIDE MY NETWORK* that I attempt to contact on these > > internal machines work, and all of my network machines can talk to one > > another. > > OK, I got it now ;-) > > > > If you sit at the router, can you ping those systems (assuming > > > they can be pinged)? > > > > If I sit on the machine who can't make the WWW connections I can ping > > the remote sites if they haven't blocked out ICMP packets to me. I > > simply can't make TCP connections to them. > > That's pretty strange. So the router can't make TCP connections to > these sites either? No, the router can, but any machines hung off it's ethernet can't. On a whim (based on a hint I got from Karl Peilorz) I changed the MTU on the router (which is running SLIP to get to the net) from 552 to 1500, and now things work. The strange things is that that the mtu of the SLIP interface if/was 552 and all traffic that originated on that box was fine, and the mtu on the ethernet interface was 1500, and traffic generated from there did not work. I would have thought that you wouldn't need to fragment any packets that had a mtu of 552 to stick it on an ethernet with an mtu of 1500. I need to lookmore into this... Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 08:46:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA11794 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:46:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp1.vnet.net (smtp1.vnet.net [166.82.1.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA11786 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:46:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by smtp1.vnet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA04936; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:46:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes.dignus.com [10.0.0.3]) by dignus.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA01533; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:26:41 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.9.1/8.6.9) id LAA09094; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:47:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:47:03 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199812021647.LAA09094@lakes.dignus.com> To: eischen@vigrid.com, nate@mt.sri.com Subject: Re: TCP bug Cc: dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it In-Reply-To: <199812021636.JAA06068@mt.sri.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > No, 10% of machines out on the big bad Internet don't work. (I'm > > > guessing at the 10% number. It may be higher/lower, but about 10% of > > > the sites I try to contact don't work.) > > > > > > 90% of the sites *OUTSIDE MY NETWORK* that I attempt to contact on these > > > internal machines work, and all of my network machines can talk to one > > > another. > > > > OK, I got it now ;-) > > > > > > If you sit at the router, can you ping those systems (assuming > > > > they can be pinged)? > > > > > > If I sit on the machine who can't make the WWW connections I can ping > > > the remote sites if they haven't blocked out ICMP packets to me. I > > > simply can't make TCP connections to them. > > > > That's pretty strange. So the router can't make TCP connections to > > these sites either? > > No, the router can, but any machines hung off it's ethernet can't. On a > whim (based on a hint I got from Karl Peilorz) I changed the MTU on the > router (which is running SLIP to get to the net) from 552 to 1500, and > now things work. > > The strange things is that that the mtu of the SLIP interface if/was 552 > and all traffic that originated on that box was fine, and the mtu on the > ethernet interface was 1500, and traffic generated from there did not > work. > > I would have thought that you wouldn't need to fragment any packets that > had a mtu of 552 to stick it on an ethernet with an mtu of 1500. > > I need to lookmore into this... > > > Nate Just to add to this; I've got exactly the same symptoms; which I previously reported. On my internal network; I can't get to some sites (www.aol.com being the best example.) But, If I'm on the gateway machine - it has no problems getting there. Thus, I was implicating natd. And - it so happens; my connection is a SL/IP connection, and my MTU is 552. I'm betting there's something going on with natd and packet fragmentation. Several people unsuccessfully tried to duplicate my problem; but I'm wondering now if they were using PPP or something else that had a higher MTU, and, thus, didn't fragment any packets. - Dave Rivers - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 08:52:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA12551 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:52:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.gtn.com (mail.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA12542 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:52:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mail.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id RAA11591; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:45:08 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA32474; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:33:52 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19981202173352.A32164@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:33:52 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: Eivind Eklund , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? References: <1958.912571118@zippy.cdrom.com> <19981202165155.B21015@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19981202165155.B21015@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Wed, Dec 02, 1998 at 04:51:55PM +0100 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Additionally: FreeBSD is their main developement platform and I have the feeling they are more than willed to contribute their work to us and generally *BSD... From: http://www.kame.net/project-overview.html#release ----- snip ---------- Releasing Plan Our main development platform is currently FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE at this moment (and will be future 2.2.x-RELEASE). We have chosen 2.2.x-RELEASE because: it is excellent for daily use. well-maintained "ports" tree helps us modify applications to support IPv6. and 3.0-current is too hard to track if we maintain cvs repository separately. We also support BSDI 3.1 and NetBSD 1.3.2. They are in-sync with FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE version of KAME stack. We plan to release KAME kit in three ways: SNAP is for for hackers/researchers, will be released once a week (every Monday). It will include whole bunch of experimental items. It may or may not be stable. STABLE is for more broader public, will be made twice a month (odd months). Many documents are supposed to be updated in STABLE. Since it is aimed to be a stable snapshot, experimental items are not included in STABLE kits. RELEASE is an official release for us, will be made twice a year (September and March). Also, we are happy to merge our stack to *BSD cvs repository. We'd like to provide the stack for other *BSDs too, if time and human resource allows. Even if we cannot afford the man power or cannot merge our code into some *BSD repository, we will release easy-to-install kit for those *BSDs. For FreeBSD, we are now porting KAME stack to FreeBSD 3.0-SNAP-980426, and then there will be a port for 3.0-current. After we completed the work, we would like to merge our code to FreeBSD master repository, and then we can promise to maintain sys/netinet6 and related part of 3.0-current, at least while the KAME project is there. ----- snip ---------- -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas What gives you 90% more speed, for example, in kernel compilation ? http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html "NT = Not Today" (Maggie Biggs) ``powered by FreeBSD SMP'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 08:57:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA12803 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:57:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from caladan.tdx.co.uk (caladan.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA12796 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:57:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kpielorz@tdx.co.uk) Received: from tdx.co.uk (lorca-tx.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.242]) by caladan.tdx.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA21278; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:54:07 GMT Message-ID: <366570AF.58AAC806@tdx.co.uk> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 16:54:07 +0000 From: Karl Pielorz Organization: TDX - The Digital eXchange X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thomas David Rivers CC: eischen@vigrid.com, nate@mt.sri.com, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Subject: Re: TCP bug References: <199812021647.LAA09094@lakes.dignus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thomas David Rivers wrote: > Just to add to this; I've got exactly the same symptoms; which I previously > reported. > > On my internal network; I can't get to some sites (www.aol.com being > the best example.) > > But, If I'm on the gateway machine - it has no problems getting there. > > Thus, I was implicating natd. > > And - it so happens; my connection is a SL/IP connection, and my MTU > is 552. > > I'm betting there's something going on with natd and packet fragmentation. > > Several people unsuccessfully tried to duplicate my problem; but I'm > wondering now if they were using PPP or something else that had a higher > MTU, and, thus, didn't fragment any packets. We originally encountered this problem ages ago using PPP (it also showed up under Slip)... What we found happening was requests to the webservers went out fine (i.e. from host to internet). Because of the small MTU being used data would come back in, hit the FreeBSD box (which would see that it's DF - don't fragment bit was set) - at this point it sent back an ICMP message to the remote host "packet too big". It turns out through a combination of firewalls (ours on our host, and the remote Internet sites [including Microsoft et'al]) these ICMP messages were getting blocked... If we turned off _all_ our firewalls (bearing in mind the ICMP was being generated by the Terminal Server BSD box, not the client on the other end of the PPP/SLIP link) it would work with even more sites (but not all)... The exact ICMP being clobbered was ICMP "packet-too-big" (i.e. fragmentation needed and DF bit set). The 'mystery' was caused by the Terminal Server trying to send it, not the modem user (who wasn't firewalled at all from our side)... Hope this helps! Regards, Karl To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 08:57:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA12892 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:57:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (s205m64.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA12885 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:57:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA12205; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:57:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:57:00 -0800 (PST) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199812021657.IAA12205@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: dhw@whistle.com, mike@smith.net.au Subject: Re: how to get hardware info Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199812020448.UAA02671@dingo.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 20:48:30 -0800 >From: Mike Smith >What information do you require? I think we've discussed this before; >if I remember correctly I'm not convinced that your justification for >having the information is really particularly useful, and worse the PC >doesn't make it possible to get the information you want in the first >place. Correct on all counts, which is why I was actually trying to avoid re-hashing the issue, but let the original poster know that some of this had been discussed before. Put into a "requirement": I need enough information so that an automated process could generate a shopping list for a relatively unskilled person to be able to obtain the components to replicate a given system, then do so. It is assumed that the boot.flp & installation media, as well as current backups of the system are available. The purpose is for disaster recovery preparedness. Consider, please: we have off-site backups of all the servers & most of the desktops; adding another system to the amanda disklist is anywhere from borderline trivial to an hour's worth of work. Determining the configuration of a machine to the requisite level of detail is (for me) challenging and time-consuming. And tracking those changes is a task that does not scale at all well. I am trying to automate as much of this as possible; doing things manually that computers are able to do automatically isn't my idea of "fun." For comparison, I posted some excerpts -- I really doubt anyone would want the list spammed with the entire thing -- of the output of "sysinfo -level all" from a modest Solaris 2.x (SPARC) system during the previous go-round. Its level of detail is awe-inspiring (or something like that). I'd be happy to do the work to port the code, if I could find out how to get at the information... but the situation you metion in your last comment is, apparently, the killer. More's the pity. david -- David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 09:07:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA13463 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 09:07:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [194.93.177.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA13343 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 09:04:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA05942; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 18:58:08 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from ru) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 18:58:08 +0200 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: Thomas David Rivers Cc: eischen@vigrid.com, nate@mt.sri.com, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Subject: Re: TCP bug Message-ID: <19981202185808.A4604@ucb.crimea.ua> Mail-Followup-To: Thomas David Rivers , eischen@vigrid.com, nate@mt.sri.com, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it References: <199812021636.JAA06068@mt.sri.com> <199812021647.LAA09094@lakes.dignus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.94.17i In-Reply-To: <199812021647.LAA09094@lakes.dignus.com>; from Thomas David Rivers on Wed, Dec 02, 1998 at 11:47:03AM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Dec 02, 1998 at 11:47:03AM -0500, Thomas David Rivers wrote: > > Just to add to this; I've got exactly the same symptoms; which I previously > reported. > > On my internal network; I can't get to some sites (www.aol.com being > the best example.) > > But, If I'm on the gateway machine - it has no problems getting there. > > Thus, I was implicating natd. > > And - it so happens; my connection is a SL/IP connection, and my MTU > is 552. > > I'm betting there's something going on with natd and packet fragmentation. > > Several people unsuccessfully tried to duplicate my problem; but I'm > wondering now if they were using PPP or something else that had a higher > MTU, and, thus, didn't fragment any packets. > > - Dave Rivers - Some sites block ICMP and thus break PMTU discovery. You can work around this problem by disabling PMTU discovery on all your FreeBSD boxes. This is done by locking MTU on route. I use: route change default -mtu 1500 (for Ethernet) route change default -mtu 552 (for SLIP) After this everything works fine even with sites that block ICMP. I had this problem some time ago, when Hub.FreeBSD.org was blocking ICMP. -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380.652.247.647 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 09:10:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA13768 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 09:10:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA13754 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 09:10:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA08487; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:10:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA06313; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:09:47 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:09:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199812021709.KAA06313@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Thomas David Rivers Cc: eischen@vigrid.com, nate@mt.sri.com, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Subject: Re: TCP bug In-Reply-To: <199812021647.LAA09094@lakes.dignus.com> References: <199812021636.JAA06068@mt.sri.com> <199812021647.LAA09094@lakes.dignus.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > That's pretty strange. So the router can't make TCP connections to > > > these sites either? > > > > No, the router can, but any machines hung off it's ethernet can't. On a > > whim (based on a hint I got from Karl Peilorz) I changed the MTU on the > > router (which is running SLIP to get to the net) from 552 to 1500, and > > now things work. > > > > The strange things is that that the mtu of the SLIP interface if/was 552 > > and all traffic that originated on that box was fine, and the mtu on the > > ethernet interface was 1500, and traffic generated from there did not > > work. > > > > I would have thought that you wouldn't need to fragment any packets that > > had a mtu of 552 to stick it on an ethernet with an mtu of 1500. > > ... > > Just to add to this; I've got exactly the same symptoms; which I previously > reported. > > On my internal network; I can't get to some sites (www.aol.com being > the best example.) > > But, If I'm on the gateway machine - it has no problems getting there. > > Thus, I was implicating natd. But, I don't use natd in my network. All of my boxes have real registered IP address. > I'm betting there's something going on with natd and packet fragmentation. I'll bet something else is going on. > Several people unsuccessfully tried to duplicate my problem; but I'm > wondering now if they were using PPP or something else that had a higher > MTU, and, thus, didn't fragment any packets. I suspect it may have something to do with PPP's mtu vs. SLIP's mtu. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 09:14:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA13977 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 09:14:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.tar.com (ns.tar.com [204.95.187.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA13963 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 09:14:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lists@tar.com) Received: from ppro.tar.com (ppro.tar.com [204.95.187.9]) by ns.tar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA01440; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:13:42 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from lists@tar.com) Message-Id: <199812021713.LAA01440@ns.tar.com> From: "Richard Seaman, Jr." To: "Daniel Eischen" , "jb@cimlogic.com.au" , "scrappy@hub.org" Cc: "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Date: Wed, 02 Dec 98 11:13:42 -0600 Reply-To: "Richard Seaman, Jr." X-Mailer: PMMail 1.92 For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: pthread_cancel() function... Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:19:44 -0500 (EST), Daniel Eischen wrote: >> I was under the impression that pthread_cancel was a manditory, >> not optional, part of both the POSIX and SS2 specifications. However, >> I agree it causes problems when used improperly, and it sure seems >> like implementing it is a royal pain in the you know what. > >I have the guts of it implemented, but just haven't wrapped all >(any) of the system calls defined as cancellation points. I put >it on the back burner to do other things first. If someone wants >to finish it before I get back to it, let me know and I'll try >to clean it up and make it available. It strikes me that the "pain in the you know what" part of this is the syscall wrapping -- though its more than syscalls involved. There are also some libc library functions that are manditory cancellation points too. If you wrap a syscall to make it a cancellation point, then each function in libc that calls the wrapped syscall becomes a cancellation point too. The problem with this is that while some of those functions are optional or manditory cancellation points, others are not. The spec also says that function calls that are not manditory or optional cancellation points should never be cancellation points (so the user can know when he is subject to cancellation). In libc (not libc_r) most syscalls are implemented with a leading underscore, and then the syscall is declared as a weak alias, eg. equivalent to: #pragma weak write=_write There are a few syscalls that have been omitted (eg. sigsuspend, which is a manditory cancellation point). However, the library functions are not implemented in this manner, so wrapping them is tougher. In libc_r, of course, the syscalls that are going to be wrapped are declared as _thread_sys_xxxxxx, and the others are declared without the leading underscore. The only way that I have been able to figure to make all this work for cancellation points is as follows (and I hope you have a better way): 1) Implement all the libc_r wrapped syscalls with an underscore, making them equivalent to the libc syscalls. Optionally declare them as weak aliases to the normal syscall name. Eg. int _write (......) { ..... _thread_sys_write (......) ..... } #pragma weak write=_write 2) Reimplement at least the libc library calls that need to be cancellation points with an underscore, and with weak aliases, so they too can be overwridden to be cancellation points. 3) Wrap cancellation points to override the weak symbols, eg: ssize_t write(int fd, const void *buf, size_t nbytes) { int ret; int oldtype; /* This is a cancellation point */ pthread_setcanceltype (PTHREAD_CANCEL_ASYNCHRONOUS, &oldtype); ret = _write(fd, buf, nbytes); /* This is a cancellation point */ pthread_setcanceltype (oldtype, NULL); return (ret); } 4) Re-implement all the libc/libc_r functions that call syscalls or any of the library calls to used the underscored versions for their internal calls, so that cancellation points are not introduced where they're not supposed to be. I've implemented the wrapped syscalls as described above for my port of linux threads (ie. as in point 3 above), and for my playing around with kernel threads. (I also have an implementation of the pthreads cancellation code that I've used with the kernel threads stuff). But, I haven't tried looking at libc as a whole (ie. points 2 and 4). I'd happily send you the code I've implemented, and you're free to use it in the cancellation stuff you're working on. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 09:21:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA14552 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 09:21:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA14547 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 09:21:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA08573; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:20:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA06413; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:20:54 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:20:54 -0700 Message-Id: <199812021720.KAA06413@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Ruslan Ermilov Cc: Thomas David Rivers , eischen@vigrid.com, nate@mt.sri.com, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Subject: Re: TCP bug In-Reply-To: <19981202185808.A4604@ucb.crimea.ua> References: <199812021636.JAA06068@mt.sri.com> <199812021647.LAA09094@lakes.dignus.com> <19981202185808.A4604@ucb.crimea.ua> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > On my internal network; I can't get to some sites (www.aol.com being > > the best example.) > > > > But, If I'm on the gateway machine - it has no problems getting there. > > > > Thus, I was implicating natd. > > > > And - it so happens; my connection is a SL/IP connection, and my MTU > > is 552. > > Some sites block ICMP and thus break PMTU discovery. Umm, if this is the case, why would we be having a problem with a network segment with a smaller MTU not being able to send packets to a network with a bigger MTU? It would seem to me that the small MTU network connection would be the one having the problems, not the larger MTU network connection. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 10:08:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA18901 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:08:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alive.znep.com (207-178-54-226.go2net.com [207.178.54.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA18896 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:08:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.znep.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA11834; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:04:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:04:47 -0800 (PST) From: Marc Slemko To: Nate Williams cc: Daniel Eischen , dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Subject: Re: TCP bug In-Reply-To: <199812021636.JAA06068@mt.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Nate Williams wrote: > No, the router can, but any machines hung off it's ethernet can't. On a > whim (based on a hint I got from Karl Peilorz) I changed the MTU on the > router (which is running SLIP to get to the net) from 552 to 1500, and > now things work. > > The strange things is that that the mtu of the SLIP interface if/was 552 > and all traffic that originated on that box was fine, and the mtu on the > ethernet interface was 1500, and traffic generated from there did not > work. > > I would have thought that you wouldn't need to fragment any packets that > had a mtu of 552 to stick it on an ethernet with an mtu of 1500. If you make a connection directly from the box with the low MTU, it knows to advertise a low MSS so no one will try to send packets that are too big. If you make a connection from a high MTU box behind it, then it will advertise a large MSS so the remote end will try sending large segments. If the first <1500 MTU is at the "router" referred to above, then for some reason an ICMP can't fragment message probably is not getting from the machine on the other side of the router's SLIP link to the origin host. Again, the place where a large segment would be dropped and an ICMP "can't fragment" sent back is at the system on the other end of the SLIP link. The tcpdumps you sent earlier don't make a lot of sense since they don't actually show any data being transferred for the connection you say works and for the one you say doesn't, it only shows a SYN going one way, not the other. However, since www.nfl.com does block ICMP echo requests or echo responses and it does try to do PMTU-D, this is very likely the problem even though the tcpdumps you posted don't appear to make any sense. As always, http://www.worldgate.com/~marcs/mtu/ for a discussion of PMTU-D, why it gets broken and how you can work around the problem. The real issue in this case is that www.nfl.com is broken and appears to be causing the problem. You should try to contact StarWave (which manages nfl.com, and a whole bunch of other sites that may be broken in the same way) and tell them to fix their broken system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 10:13:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19216 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:13:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from omahpop1.omah.uswest.net (omahpop1.omah.uswest.net [204.26.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA19211 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:13:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from opsys@open-systems.net) Received: (qmail 6365 invoked by alias); 2 Dec 1998 18:12:48 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 6329 invoked by uid 0); 2 Dec 1998 18:12:46 -0000 Received: from dialupe224.ne.uswest.net (HELO pinkfloyd.open-systems.net) (209.180.99.224) by omahpop1.omah.uswest.net with SMTP; 2 Dec 1998 18:12:46 -0000 Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:12:47 -0600 (CST) From: "Open Systems Inc." To: Andreas Klemm cc: Eivind Eklund , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? In-Reply-To: <19981202172824.A23747@klemm.gtn.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Andreas Klemm wrote: > Sounds good for me, since I had this feeling as well. Ditto.. > Other good signs are the availability for all BSD variants and > the interest of companies like: > Fujitsu Limited > Hitachi, Ltd. > IIJ Research Laboratory > NEC Corporation > Toshiba Corporation > Yokogawa Digital Computer Corporation (YDC) > Yokogawa Electric Corporation To me this is a good sign with this much corporate push behind it. > That generally sounds good and if the technical things are good > as well then go for it .... But I defer to Garrett for the technical aspect since networking is his ballpark. I know he said last time he wanted to finish some things up and mike i believe had some things to finish up before any IPv6 code was choosen. Im not sure what the status is on those "things" that needed finished up. I believe that's what he said though. Chris "If you aim the gun at your foot and pull the trigger, it's UNIX's job to ensure reliable delivery of the bullet to where you aimed the gun (in this case, Mr. Foot)." -- Terry Lambert, FreeBSD-Hackers mailing list. ===================================| Open Systems FreeBSD Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.8 is available now! | Phone: 402-573-9124 -----------------------------------| 3335 N. 103 Plaza #14, Omaha, NE 68134 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting, Network Engineering, Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 10:24:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19914 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:24:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pcnet1.pcnet.com (pcnet1.pcnet.com [204.213.232.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA19909 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:24:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: (from eischen@localhost) by pcnet1.pcnet.com (8.8.7/PCNet) id NAA11967; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:23:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:23:54 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Eischen Message-Id: <199812021823.NAA11967@pcnet1.pcnet.com> To: eischen@vigrid.com, jb@cimlogic.com.au, lists@tar.com, scrappy@hub.org Subject: Re: pthread_cancel() function... Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > It strikes me that the "pain in the you know what" part of this > is the syscall wrapping -- though its more than syscalls involved. > There are also some libc library functions that are manditory > cancellation points too. > > If you wrap a syscall to make it a cancellation point, then each > function in libc that calls the wrapped syscall becomes a cancellation > point too. Do we really care about that? Isn't a single cancellation check _before_ the system call is made good enough? > The problem with this is that while some of those > functions are optional or manditory cancellation points, others > are not. The spec also says that function calls that are not > manditory or optional cancellation points should never be cancellation > points (so the user can know when he is subject to cancellation). If a function in libc calls another function/system call that is a cancellation point, it doesn't seem right that it really be a cancellation point. The user may not, or probably doesn't know, how a library function is implemented so it isn't apparent to him that the library function he is calling is a cancellation point. I'd recommend that we only wrap the library functions and system calls as defined in the POSIX spec, and provide one cancellation check before the real call is made. This obviously makes things easier, but I don't know if it is correct. From what I've seen in the POSIX spec, it doesn't mention cancellability of system calls when called from non-cancellable library routines. > I've implemented the wrapped syscalls as described above for my > port of linux threads (ie. as in point 3 above), and for my > playing around with kernel threads. (I also have an implementation > of the pthreads cancellation code that I've used with the kernel > threads stuff). But, I haven't tried looking at libc as a whole > (ie. points 2 and 4). I'd happily send you the code I've implemented, > and you're free to use it in the cancellation stuff you're working on. Well, if we have to do what you suggest, I'll ask you for it when I get back to cancellation - thanks. Dan Eischen eischen@vigrid.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 10:24:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA20075 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:24:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.93.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA20070 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:24:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA05090 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:24:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:24:17 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Year 2k and PC hardware Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Having recently visited the web pages of a number of the hardware vendors of machines I run FreeBSD on, I am a little concerned about some of the older machines. For example, Gateway 2000 refers to BIOS fixes for >= pentium machines that fix the bios access functions for the real time clock. However, they note that the fix does not apply if the OS attempts to access the RTC directly (I'm not sure what this means -- I don't know how the RTC is implemented on PC machines). Similarly, Dell suggested the download of a BIOS upgrade for machines that were 486-class. Needless to say, it appears that no one was particularly interested in how 386-class machines fared. While FreeBSD itself may behave correctly for year 2k problems (presumably the large majority of dates are manipulated and stored as seconds since epoch), it's not clear that it will behave happily on all hardware. I was wondering if anyone had done any testing with FreeBSD on various hardware platforms to see if it did the right thing? We certainly use both newer and older machines with FreeBSD, and incorrect behavior would be most unfortunate. :) With older machines, we don't have duplicates of the machines in all cases, so testing them may be difficult. It might also just be time to retire our 386 machines, but they are very convenient to have around. (I was also unhappy to see that my bank is not very Y2k-ready just yet :( ) Robert N Watson robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: 03 01 DD 8E 15 67 48 73 25 6D 10 FC EC 68 C1 1C Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 10:53:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA22164 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:53:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.tar.com (ns.tar.com [204.95.187.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA22154 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:53:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lists@tar.com) Received: from ppro.tar.com (ppro.tar.com [204.95.187.9]) by ns.tar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA01941; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:52:58 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from lists@tar.com) Message-Id: <199812021852.MAA01941@ns.tar.com> From: "Richard Seaman, Jr." To: "eischen@vigrid.com" Cc: "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Date: Wed, 02 Dec 98 12:52:57 -0600 Reply-To: "Richard Seaman, Jr." X-Mailer: PMMail 1.92 For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: pthread_cancel() function... Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:23:54 -0500 (EST), Daniel Eischen wrote: >> It strikes me that the "pain in the you know what" part of this >> is the syscall wrapping -- though its more than syscalls involved. >> There are also some libc library functions that are manditory >> cancellation points too. >> >> If you wrap a syscall to make it a cancellation point, then each >> function in libc that calls the wrapped syscall becomes a cancellation >> point too. > >Do we really care about that? Isn't a single cancellation check >_before_ the system call is made good enough? I'm not sure I follow. If I understand, the specs say that the "read" function should be a cancellation point (as an example). If you make the read function a cancellation point (even if you just test for cancellation once, perhaps by calling pthread_testcancel) how do you prevent the other libc or libc_r functions that call read from becoming cancellation points too? The problem, as I see it, is that within libc and libc_r, a function that calls read will get the wrapped syscall, not the syscall itself, as it is currently implemented. Take "localtime" as an example. The implementation of localtime indirectly calls read. This will make localtime a cancellation point too, even though localtime is not a cancellation point defined in the specs. Or, am I just missing something here? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 11:14:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA23638 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:14:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pcnet1.pcnet.com (pcnet1.pcnet.com [204.213.232.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA23633 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:14:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: (from eischen@localhost) by pcnet1.pcnet.com (8.8.7/PCNet) id OAA18143; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:13:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:13:42 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Eischen Message-Id: <199812021913.OAA18143@pcnet1.pcnet.com> To: eischen@vigrid.com, lists@tar.com Subject: Re: pthread_cancel() function... Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm not sure I follow. If I understand, the specs say that the > "read" function should be a cancellation point (as an example). > If you make the read function a cancellation point (even if you > just test for cancellation once, perhaps by calling > pthread_testcancel) how do you prevent the other libc or libc_r > functions that call read from becoming cancellation points > too? > > The problem, as I see it, is that within libc and libc_r, a > function that calls read will get the wrapped syscall, not > the syscall itself, as it is currently implemented. Take > "localtime" as an example. The implementation of localtime > indirectly calls read. This will make localtime a cancellation > point too, even though localtime is not a cancellation point > defined in the specs. Change libc to use SYSCALL_xxx (in this case SYSCALL_READ), where SYSCALL_xxx is defined in libc as xxx and in libc_r as thread_sys_xxx? Dan Eischen eischen@vigrid.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 11:23:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA24430 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:23:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA24425 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:23:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA18170; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:22:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:22:54 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199812021922.LAA18170@apollo.backplane.com> To: "Open Systems Inc." Cc: Andreas Klemm , Eivind Eklund , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Andreas Klemm wrote: : :> Sounds good for me, since I had this feeling as well. : :Ditto.. Ditto. I haven't looked at their site, but from the comments they would appear to have their ducks in a row. Being able to run IPV6 for real would be nice. -Matt Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications & God knows what else. (Please include original email in any response) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 11:32:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA25283 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:32:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.gtn.com (mail.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA25234 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:31:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mail.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id UAA17391; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 20:30:10 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA05546; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 20:23:28 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19981202202328.B5527@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 20:23:28 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: "Open Systems Inc." Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? References: <19981202172824.A23747@klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Open Systems Inc. on Wed, Dec 02, 1998 at 12:12:47PM -0600 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Dec 02, 1998 at 12:12:47PM -0600, Open Systems Inc. wrote: > On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Andreas Klemm wrote: > To me this is a good sign with this much corporate push behind it. Yes ... > But I defer to Garrett for the technical aspect since networking is his > ballpark. I know he said last time he wanted to finish some things up and > mike i believe had some things to finish up before any IPv6 code was > choosen. Im not sure what the status is on those "things" that needed > finished up. I believe that's what he said though. Agreed, Garretts domain. I only wanted to vitalize this thread a bit ;-) -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas What gives you 90% more speed, for example, in kernel compilation ? http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html "NT = Not Today" (Maggie Biggs) ``powered by FreeBSD SMP'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 12:08:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA28336 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:08:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA28310 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:08:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA09981; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 07:16:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199812022016.HAA09981@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Question on pthreads. In-Reply-To: from Memphisto at "Dec 2, 98 04:51:05 pm" To: szoli@netvisor.hu (Memphisto) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 07:16:03 +1100 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Memphisto wrote: [Charset iso-8859-2 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > I'm currently trying to compile a threaded app on FreeBSD. The problem is > that this app uses a function called pthread_setcancelstate() which is > declared in , but I just can't link the app, because this > function doesn't seem to exist in the libc_r library. What can I do know? > Am I wrong and it does exist or shall I compile the MIT patched pthreads > library? For the time being, pthread_setcancelstate() shouldn't be declared there. It would be unusual for an application to use pthread_setcancelstate() without pthread_cancel(). Refer to the other discussion about using that. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 12:24:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA00229 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:24:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.tar.com (ns.tar.com [204.95.187.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00212 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:24:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lists@tar.com) Received: from ppro.tar.com (ppro.tar.com [204.95.187.9]) by ns.tar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA00562; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:23:44 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from lists@tar.com) Message-Id: <199812022023.OAA00562@ns.tar.com> From: "Richard Seaman, Jr." To: "eischen@vigrid.com" Cc: "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Date: Wed, 02 Dec 98 14:23:43 -0600 Reply-To: "Richard Seaman, Jr." X-Mailer: PMMail 1.92 For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: pthread_cancel() function... Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:13:42 -0500 (EST), Daniel Eischen wrote: >> I'm not sure I follow. If I understand, the specs say that the >> "read" function should be a cancellation point (as an example). >> If you make the read function a cancellation point (even if you >> just test for cancellation once, perhaps by calling >> pthread_testcancel) how do you prevent the other libc or libc_r >> functions that call read from becoming cancellation points >> too? >> >> The problem, as I see it, is that within libc and libc_r, a >> function that calls read will get the wrapped syscall, not >> the syscall itself, as it is currently implemented. Take >> "localtime" as an example. The implementation of localtime >> indirectly calls read. This will make localtime a cancellation >> point too, even though localtime is not a cancellation point >> defined in the specs. > >Change libc to use SYSCALL_xxx (in this case SYSCALL_READ), >where SYSCALL_xxx is defined in libc as xxx and in libc_r >as thread_sys_xxx? Sure. That was what I thought I was proposing, except that instead of SYSCALL_xxx it would be _xxx (eg. _read) since that is how libc (not libc_r) is already setup. In the case of libc_r, you probably don't want to alias it to _thread_sys_xxx, since you probably want the wrappers for the blocking syscalls to be used in libc_r. If you rename the uthread syscall wrappers from xxx to _xxx (eg. _read) and then implement xxx as a wrapper of _xxx that implements cancellation points, you'd be consistent. As far as I can tell, to implement cancellation points, you have to wade through the libc code and make the change as you suggest, for each call. Its not really "hard", just a tedious pain in the you know what. That was really my only point. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 12:29:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA00869 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:29:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00860 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:29:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA10028; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:29:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA07307; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:29:37 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:29:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199812022029.NAA07307@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Marc Slemko Cc: Nate Williams , Daniel Eischen , dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Subject: Re: TCP bug In-Reply-To: References: <199812021636.JAA06068@mt.sri.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ By the way, this has been an interesting and informative discusstion. Thanks to all involved. ] > > No, the router can, but any machines hung off it's ethernet can't. On a > > whim (based on a hint I got from Karl Peilorz) I changed the MTU on the > > router (which is running SLIP to get to the net) from 552 to 1500, and > > now things work. > > > > The strange things is that that the mtu of the SLIP interface if/was 552 > > and all traffic that originated on that box was fine, and the mtu on the > > ethernet interface was 1500, and traffic generated from there did not > > work. > > > > I would have thought that you wouldn't need to fragment any packets that > > had a mtu of 552 to stick it on an ethernet with an mtu of 1500. > > If you make a connection directly from the box with the low MTU, it knows > to advertise a low MSS so no one will try to send packets that are too > big. Fair enough. So, is PMTU working from that box? > If you make a connection from a high MTU box behind it, then it will > advertise a large MSS so the remote end will try sending large segments. > If the first <1500 MTU is at the "router" referred to above, then for some > reason an ICMP can't fragment message probably is not getting from the > machine on the other side of the router's SLIP link to the origin host. The box it's connected to is another FreeBSD box. The way it looks is: Internet <-> FreeBSD firewall <----> FreeBSD router <----> Internal box The FreeBSD firewall box is allowing ICMP type 3 packets through (per your WWW page) so PMTU should work from my end at least. You're saying that the ICMP message is getting blocked somewhere between my firewall box and www.nfl.com, right? And, because my 'SLIP' box is originally broadcasting an MTU of 552, there is never any need to fragment the packet. It's starting to make sense to me. So, let me summarize. Let's call my Slip router box 'trout', and my Internal box behind it 'caddis'. trout has no trouble connecting to these 'broken' machines on the internet because it initially advertises a window of 552, so 'www.nfl.com' generates packets no bigger than that. However, poor 'caddis' advertises a window of 1500, which is received by 'www.nfl.com' which sends a packet of size '1500'. This is too big, so 'trout' doesn't get it because when my firewall drops it (due to the DF flag being sent) because it can't send it to trout who has a small SLIP mtu of 552 (< 1500). So far so good, and it even makes sense. However, *WHY* does the IPFW code on trout think it has a packet from 'www.nfl.com' even though the packet should have been dropped at the firewall because all traffic to caddis has to be split into chunks of 552? Also, why does the packet sent from www.nfl.com have the DF flag set? Is that part of the PMTU code? > The tcpdumps you sent earlier don't make a lot of sense since they don't > actually show any data being transferred for the connection you say works > and for the one you say doesn't, it only shows a SYN going one way, not > the other. > > However, since www.nfl.com does block ICMP echo requests or echo responses > and it does try to do PMTU-D, this is very likely the problem even though > the tcpdumps you posted don't appear to make any sense. See above. Here is another attempt where I'm running two tcpdumps at the same time on the different interfaces. Do they make any more sense? I am also showing the firewall information as well, which has it's only purpose to show that some sort of packet is received destined for caddis from www.nfl.com that never makes it onto the wire. trout:~ # tcpdump -i sl0 host caddis and www.nfl.com tcpdump: listening on sl0 11:20:11.374690 caddis.mt.sri.com.1174 > 204.202.130.220.http: S 45779929:45779929(0) win 8192 (DF) 11:20:11.563975 204.202.130.220.http > caddis.mt.sri.com.1174: S 63039543:63039543(0) ack 45779930 win 8760 (DF) 11:20:11.573961 caddis.mt.sri.com.1174 > 204.202.130.220.http: . ack 1 win 8760 (DF) 11:20:11.578700 caddis.mt.sri.com.1174 > 204.202.130.220.http: P 1:238(237) ack 1 win 8760 (DF) 11:20:14.781813 caddis.mt.sri.com.1174 > 204.202.130.220.http: P 1:238(237) ack 1 win 8760 (DF) 11:20:15.016280 204.202.130.220.http > caddis.mt.sri.com.1174: . ack 238 win 8523 (DF) trout:~ # tcpdump -i le0 host caddis and www.nfl.com tcpdump: listening on le0 11:20:11.369849 caddis.mt.sri.com.1174 > 204.202.130.220.http: S 45779929:45779929(0) win 8192 (DF) 11:20:11.569066 caddis.mt.sri.com.1174 > 204.202.130.220.http: . ack 63039544 win 8760 (DF) 11:20:11.571399 caddis.mt.sri.com.1174 > 204.202.130.220.http: P 0:237(237) ack 1 win 8760 (DF) 11:20:14.776812 caddis.mt.sri.com.1174 > 204.202.130.220.http: P 0:237(237) ack 1 win 8760 (DF) trout:~ # ipfw list FireWall chain entries: 700 0 00100 allow log tcp from 206.127.76.139 to any 80 via le0 00110 allow log tcp from 206.127.76.139 to any 80 via sl0 00200 allow log tcp from any 80 to 206.127.76.139 via sl0 00210 allow log tcp from any 80 to 206.127.76.139 via le0 trout:~ # dmesg ipfw: Accounting cleared. ipfw: 100 Allow TCP 206.127.76.139:1174 204.202.130.220:80 ipfw: 110 Allow TCP 206.127.76.139:1174 204.202.130.220:80 ipfw: 200 Allow TCP 204.202.130.220:80 206.127.76.139:1174 ipfw: 210 Allow TCP 204.202.130.220:80 206.127.76.139:1174 ipfw: 100 Allow TCP 206.127.76.139:1174 204.202.130.220:80 ipfw: 110 Allow TCP 206.127.76.139:1174 204.202.130.220:80 ipfw: 100 Allow TCP 206.127.76.139:1174 204.202.130.220:80 ipfw: 110 Allow TCP 206.127.76.139:1174 204.202.130.220:80 ipfw: 100 Allow TCP 206.127.76.139:1174 204.202.130.220:80 ipfw: 110 Allow TCP 206.127.76.139:1174 204.202.130.220:80 ipfw: 200 Allow TCP 204.202.130.220:80 206.127.76.139:1174 ipfw: 210 Allow TCP 204.202.130.220:80 206.127.76.139:1174 ipfw: 200 Allow TCP 204.202.130.220:80 206.127.76.139:1174 ipfw: 210 Allow TCP 204.202.130.220:80 206.127.76.139:1174 Thanks again! Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 12:36:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01587 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:36:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA01567 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:35:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA10087; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 07:43:36 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199812022043.HAA10087@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: pthread_cancel() function... In-Reply-To: <199812022023.OAA00562@ns.tar.com> from "Richard Seaman, Jr." at "Dec 2, 98 02:23:43 pm" To: lists@tar.com Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 07:43:36 +1100 (EST) Cc: eischen@vigrid.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Richard Seaman, Jr. wrote: > In the case of libc_r, you probably don't want to alias it > to _thread_sys_xxx, since you probably want the wrappers for > the blocking syscalls to be used in libc_r. If you rename > the uthread syscall wrappers from xxx to _xxx (eg. _read) > and then implement xxx as a wrapper of _xxx that implements > cancellation points, you'd be consistent. Why do you need a second wrapper? The fact that a syscall has been wrappered for libc_r is sufficient to include any cancellation checks in the _existing_ wrapper code. I don't think it is sufficient to just add what you call "wrappers". AFAIK, the thread cancellation is supposed to occur at any time while the thread is in one of the specified functions, not just at the beginning or at the end. This means that code is required to check the thread state and do things conditionally on that. The standard says that certain functions /may/ have cancellation points, but the "implementation shall not introduce cancellation points into any other POSIX.1 or C standard functions". Ensuring that this is the case is the PITA. And writing test code that exercises all the possible combinations is impossible IMHO. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 12:41:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA02138 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:41:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pcnet1.pcnet.com (pcnet1.pcnet.com [204.213.232.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA02129 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:41:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: (from eischen@localhost) by pcnet1.pcnet.com (8.8.7/PCNet) id PAA00664; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:40:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:40:58 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Eischen Message-Id: <199812022040.PAA00664@pcnet1.pcnet.com> To: eischen@vigrid.com, lists@tar.com Subject: Re: pthread_cancel() function... Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Sure. That was what I thought I was proposing, except that > instead of SYSCALL_xxx it would be _xxx (eg. _read) since > that is how libc (not libc_r) is already setup. > > In the case of libc_r, you probably don't want to alias it > to _thread_sys_xxx, since you probably want the wrappers for > the blocking syscalls to be used in libc_r. If you rename > the uthread syscall wrappers from xxx to _xxx (eg. _read) > and then implement xxx as a wrapper of _xxx that implements > cancellation points, you'd be consistent. > > As far as I can tell, to implement cancellation > points, you have to wade through the libc code and make the > change as you suggest, for each call. Its not really "hard", > just a tedious pain in the you know what. That was really > my only point. OK, I guess we're in sync. I'll talk to you offline when I get back to cancellation. Dan Eischen eischen@vigrid.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 12:42:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA02252 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:42:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.93.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA02222 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:42:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA05995; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:41:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:41:53 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: Jim Bryant cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Year 2k and PC hardware Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG (resend because of an incorrect address -- hope you don't mind two copies, Jim :-) On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Jim Bryant wrote: > In reply: > > Having recently visited the web pages of a number of the hardware vendors > > of machines I run FreeBSD on, I am a little concerned about some of the > > older machines. For example, Gateway 2000 refers to BIOS fixes for > > >= pentium machines that fix the bios access functions for the real time > > clock. However, they note that the fix does not apply if the OS attempts > > to access the RTC directly (I'm not sure what this means -- I don't know > > how the RTC is implemented on PC machines). Similarly, Dell suggested the > > the original ibm at, and every "compatable" rtc on the market stores > the year as a 4 digit bcd number. hardware problem solved, circa > 1984. Gateway 2000 seems to dispute this claim -- not that I necessarily believe everything they say (I'm not impressed by GW2K), I am concerned by the seeming inconsistency: http://www.gateway2000.com/frameset2.asp?s=corp&p=support&a=&url=/corp/y2k/y2k/default.html In order to understand Year 2000 testing and solutions, it is important to understand how time is maintained in the computer system. The PC system actually contains two main clocks. The real-time clock (RTC) is embedded in the CMOS chip of the motherboard. It was first implemented on the IBM AT in the early 1980s, and its design became the industry standard for AT-compatible PCs. This RTC incorporated the Motorola MC146818 chip to hold the last two digits of the year (decade and year). Century data was stored as a data point only in a separate memory section of the chip (location 32h, or later, in the PS/2, location 37h). To minimize cost and complexity, this century data was not incorporated directly into the clock functions of the RTC. Rather, the full date was, and still is, provided by combining the last two-digts of the year, which are dynamic, with the first two digits, which are stored. This is the source of the Year 2000 problem for the real-time clock. When the Year 2000 arrives, the year 99 will progress to 00, yet the century data stored in memory will still read 19. For PCs that do not incorporate date correction logic, this will yield incorrect results in the year 2000. The OS clock is the second main clock in the computer system. Unlike the RTC, most operating system clocks (and all OS clocks provided by Gateway) are capable of using four digits for the year. The operating system clock runs only when the machine is powered on, and once initialized, it runs independent of the RTC. More importantly, the OS clock is the point of truth for software applications that use or maintain the current date. The OS clock and the real-time clock are related as follows: To establish the date when the machine is first powered on, the OS clock must refer to the real-time clock. The can be done in two ways, by accessing the RTC directly, or by using BIOS interrupt 1Ah to retrieve the data. The direct approach is less efficient, since century data can be located at location 32h or 37h depending on the PC design. Accessing date information via the BIOS allows one design strategy to work with either RTC design, and for this reason, the BIOS approach became the norm in OS software design. The standard design practice for application software built on this foundation, and rather than retrieve date information from the RTC directly, software applications refer to the four-digit OS clock. Their discussion of solutions is a bit lame, unfortunately, as it suggests things like TSRs :). Their rationale, assuming that anything they have claimed above is technically accurate, however, is reasonable: Modifying the BIOS to correct Year 2000 date calculations proved to be a secure and practical solution. Because operating systems generally access date information via the BIOS, correcting the BIOS would correct the OS system clock, which in turn is the "point-of-truth" for software applications accessing current date information. In addition, unlike the RTC and CMOS hardware, the BIOS can usually be upgraded easily. Gateway PC designs since 1993 have included flash BIOS versions that provide existing clients with an easy upgrade path. As a result, the BIOS became the most common focal point for addressing the Year 2000 issue, and the approach that almost all PC vendors have used. > anyhow, freebsd does not operate in "bootstrap" mode [real mode] like > dos/winblowz does. the specified purpose of real mode is for > bootstrapping into protected mode. don't worry about the bios, unless > you use mickey mouse products from mickeysoft. I would disagree -- real mode is not even a very good bootstrap mode -- it's really just so they can claim it runs DOS. There is no good reason to boot up in a 20-bit address mode if you are just their to bootstrap to a 32-bit virtual address mode. If it were really there to be a boostrap mode, it would bootstrap to a physically addressed 32-bit address mode, and then you would bump into protected mode (and virtual addressing) later if you felt like it. Or on like on an Alpha, where the physical memory is addressable directly via a portion of the virtual address space (helps if you are 64-bit). No, real mode is just a cheap hack so that DOS could run on a 386 because there were few real operating systems available. My concern is with the GW2K statement that they claim that my RTC is going to give incorrect data to the operating system, and that they use a BIOS patch to hack in a better result because operating systems they work with use the BIOS to retrieve the RTC data. So I want to know if anyone has tested this, and whether the BIOS changes will make a difference. > > say, it appears that no one was particularly interested in how 386-class > > machines fared. > > how many still work? anyhow, see previous answer. Many 386s make very serviceable (and affordable) routers and loghosts. Of the 386 and 486 machines I have, almost every machine is in perfect working order (albeit possibly with a hard disk replacement, and a little more RAM than before) after over 6 years of continuous use. Should I get rid of my car because it happens to be a bit older? :) > > (I was also unhappy to see that my bank is not very Y2k-ready just yet :( > > ) > > find a bank that is. put your money there. any firm that hasn't > brought their systems into compliance by september 1, 1999 deserves to > lose business and/or go bankrupt. darwinean economics. I agree, and am in the process of doing that now. Only I would personally not have chosen such a poor date as Sept 1, 1999. I think any firm that isn't in compliance by *now* is not acting responsibly. :) Good thing they're training those air traffic controllers to do it all by hand, huh. :) Robert N Watson robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: 03 01 DD 8E 15 67 48 73 25 6D 10 FC EC 68 C1 1C Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 12:50:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03257 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:50:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp1.vnet.net (smtp1.vnet.net [166.82.1.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03252 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:50:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by smtp1.vnet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA02349; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:50:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes.dignus.com [10.0.0.3]) by dignus.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA01858; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:30:48 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.9.1/8.6.9) id PAA09578; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:51:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:51:04 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199812022051.PAA09578@lakes.dignus.com> To: nate@mt.sri.com, rivers@dignus.com Subject: Re: TCP bug Cc: dillon@apollo.backplane.com, eischen@vigrid.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it In-Reply-To: <199812021709.KAA06313@mt.sri.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Thus, I was implicating natd. > > But, I don't use natd in my network. All of my boxes have real > registered IP address. > Oh - I thought you had mentioned natd... oh well. And; thanks for everyone else's suggestions... I'll try them out. - Dave Rivers - > > I'm betting there's something going on with natd and packet fragmentation. > > I'll bet something else is going on. > > > Several people unsuccessfully tried to duplicate my problem; but I'm > > wondering now if they were using PPP or something else that had a higher > > MTU, and, thus, didn't fragment any packets. > > I suspect it may have something to do with PPP's mtu vs. SLIP's mtu. > > > Nate > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 12:50:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03293 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:50:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03287 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:50:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA08704; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:52:01 -0800 (PST) To: Andreas Klemm cc: Eivind Eklund , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 02 Dec 1998 17:28:24 +0100." <19981202172824.A23747@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 12:52:01 -0800 Message-ID: <8701.912631921@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The offer -STABLE source and -CURRENT Snaps. > Things they are working on is: > > - IPv6 > - IPsec > - advanced packet queuing, ATM, mobility,.... One has to ask the obvious question, however: The existing IPSec stuff that's been submitted for commit approval is fully functional and currently in use at several sites in Europe. If we went to the KAME stuff right now, today, would we be able to offer these users the same degree of functionality or would KAME represent a "loss" from their perspective? - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 12:53:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03542 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:53:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gvr.gvr.org (gvr.gvr.org [194.151.74.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03533 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:53:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from guido@gvr.org) Received: (from guido@localhost) by gvr.gvr.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) id VAA23046; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 21:53:14 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981202215313.A23018@gvr.org> Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 21:53:13 +0100 From: Guido van Rooij To: Nate Williams , Luigi Rizzo Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TCP bug References: <199812011834.LAA00343@mt.sri.com> <199812020655.HAA01716@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> <199812021500.IAA05468@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199812021500.IAA05468@mt.sri.com>; from Nate Williams on Wed, Dec 02, 1998 at 08:00:48AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Dec 02, 1998 at 08:00:48AM -0700, Nate Williams wrote: > As far as routes, everything looks right, and almost all of my data gets > through. It's just certain WWW sites that don't work. Sometimes I see broken setups: a www server that has path MTU discovery on with a packet filter just before it that filters ot icmp messages to the server. If you want to get pages from such a system and anything between you and that system has a smaller MTU than the servers MTU you're toast. If you are behind a low(er) MTU leased line you can try and set the MTU large enough and see if the problem persists. -Guido To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 12:59:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03954 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:59:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gvr.gvr.org (gvr.gvr.org [194.151.74.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03924 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:59:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from guido@gvr.org) Received: (from guido@localhost) by gvr.gvr.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) id VAA23085; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 21:57:30 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981202215730.B23018@gvr.org> Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 21:57:30 +0100 From: Guido van Rooij To: Nate Williams , Daniel Eischen Cc: dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Subject: Re: TCP bug References: <199812021626.LAA27156@pcnet1.pcnet.com> <199812021636.JAA06068@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199812021636.JAA06068@mt.sri.com>; from Nate Williams on Wed, Dec 02, 1998 at 09:36:05AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Dec 02, 1998 at 09:36:05AM -0700, Nate Williams wrote: > No, the router can, but any machines hung off it's ethernet can't. On a > whim (based on a hint I got from Karl Peilorz) I changed the MTU on the > router (which is running SLIP to get to the net) from 552 to 1500, and > now things work. > > The strange things is that that the mtu of the SLIP interface if/was 552 > and all traffic that originated on that box was fine, and the mtu on the > ethernet interface was 1500, and traffic generated from there did not > work. > > I would have thought that you wouldn't need to fragment any packets that > had a mtu of 552 to stick it on an ethernet with an mtu of 1500. > > I need to lookmore into this... In my previous mail I already stated why things can go wrong if the www server on the internet has a badly configured packet filter. In your case it seems that your router is badly configured. Does it filter out ICMP ICMP_UNREACH_NEEDFRAG pakcets from the ethernet to the ouside, but not from your router to the outside? -Guido To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 12:59:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03984 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:59:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pcnet1.pcnet.com (pcnet1.pcnet.com [204.213.232.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03979 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:59:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: (from eischen@localhost) by pcnet1.pcnet.com (8.8.7/PCNet) id PAA02860; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:58:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:58:53 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Eischen Message-Id: <199812022058.PAA02860@pcnet1.pcnet.com> To: jb@cimlogic.com.au, lists@tar.com Subject: Re: pthread_cancel() function... Cc: eischen@vigrid.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I don't think it is sufficient to just add what you call "wrappers". > AFAIK, the thread cancellation is supposed to occur at any time while > the thread is in one of the specified functions, not just at the beginning > or at the end. This means that code is required to check the thread > state and do things conditionally on that. Yech! You're talking only about cancellable libc routines, though, right (system calls have no concept of userland thread states)? Dan Eischen eischen@vigrid.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 13:03:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04543 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:03:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alive.znep.com (207-178-54-226.go2net.com [207.178.54.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04531 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:03:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.znep.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA12338; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:00:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:00:53 -0800 (PST) From: Marc Slemko To: Nate Williams cc: Daniel Eischen , dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Subject: Re: TCP bug In-Reply-To: <199812022029.NAA07307@mt.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Nate Williams wrote: > > If you make a connection directly from the box with the low MTU, it knows > > to advertise a low MSS so no one will try to send packets that are too > > big. > > Fair enough. So, is PMTU working from that box? You mean PMTU-D; the PMTU (path MTU) is simply a term describing the smallest MTU of any link along the path. It isn't working so much as it has no need to be invoked so it isn't failing. > > If you make a connection from a high MTU box behind it, then it will > > advertise a large MSS so the remote end will try sending large segments. > > If the first <1500 MTU is at the "router" referred to above, then for some > > reason an ICMP can't fragment message probably is not getting from the > > machine on the other side of the router's SLIP link to the origin host. > > The box it's connected to is another FreeBSD box. > > The way it looks is: > > Internet <-> FreeBSD firewall <----> FreeBSD router <----> Internal box > > The FreeBSD firewall box is allowing ICMP type 3 packets through (per > your WWW page) so PMTU should work from my end at least. You're saying > that the ICMP message is getting blocked somewhere between my firewall > box and www.nfl.com, right? Right, probably very close to www.nfl.com. > > And, because my 'SLIP' box is originally broadcasting an MTU of 552, > there is never any need to fragment the packet. > > It's starting to make sense to me. > > So, let me summarize. Let's call my Slip router box 'trout', and my > Internal box behind it 'caddis'. > > trout has no trouble connecting to these 'broken' machines on the internet > because it initially advertises a window of 552, so 'www.nfl.com' > generates packets no bigger than that. > > However, poor 'caddis' advertises a window of 1500, which is received by It isn't the window that it is advertising, but the mss. If you look at your tcpdumps, the "mss 1460" or "mss 512" bits in the SYN show each end's mss. The mss is the mtu - 40; ie. the maximum packet size minus the size of the headers, so the mss is the amount of actual data that can fit in one packet while the mtu is the total size of the packet. > 'www.nfl.com' which sends a packet of size '1500'. This is too big, so > 'trout' doesn't get it because when my firewall drops it (due to the DF > flag being sent) because it can't send it to trout who has a small SLIP > mtu of 552 (< 1500). > > So far so good, and it even makes sense. > > However, *WHY* does the IPFW code on trout think it has a packet from > 'www.nfl.com' even though the packet should have been dropped at the > firewall because all traffic to caddis has to be split into chunks of 552? I think that is a different packet you are seeing that comes later or something. > > Also, why does the packet sent from www.nfl.com have the DF flag set? > Is that part of the PMTU code? Yes. The whole way that PMTU-D works is to set the DF bit on packets and, if it finds they are too big, then it can try a smaller size (on modern routers, the system sending the can't fragment will include the actual MTU in the ICMP response so the remote system doesn't even have to guess). > > > The tcpdumps you sent earlier don't make a lot of sense since they don't > > actually show any data being transferred for the connection you say works > > and for the one you say doesn't, it only shows a SYN going one way, not > > the other. > > > > However, since www.nfl.com does block ICMP echo requests or echo responses > > and it does try to do PMTU-D, this is very likely the problem even though > > the tcpdumps you posted don't appear to make any sense. > > See above. Here is another attempt where I'm running two tcpdumps at > the same time on the different interfaces. Do they make any more sense? > > I am also showing the firewall information as well, which has it's only > purpose to show that some sort of packet is received destined for caddis > from www.nfl.com that never makes it onto the wire. There is something broken going on with your tcpdumps. The second one (of le0) doesn't even show the SYN from www.nfl.com to caddis, but it has to be getting there since otherwise the connection couldn't proceed. It shows no traffic from www.nfl.com, which is obviously bogus. So obviously, for some reason, the le0 tcpdump isn't showing what is really happening. I don't use the le driver; oh, ok, it is probably that the driver or the card can't see packets that it puts on the wire. Things make more sense now. So I would suggest you either dump the le0 traffic from a different system that can see it or just ignore that dump. Now, you still do have one extra packet from www.nfl.com showing up at the end of the ipfw output that doesn't show up in the sl0 tcpdump. Are you sure that packet just didn't come in after you had stopped the tcpdump but before you looked at the ipfw logs? If you are logging the ipfw messages in /var/log/kern or something, look at the timestamps there. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 13:04:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04645 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:04:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04636 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:04:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA26427; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:04:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA07720; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:04:20 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:04:20 -0700 Message-Id: <199812022104.OAA07720@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Guido van Rooij Cc: Nate Williams , Daniel Eischen , dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Subject: Re: TCP bug In-Reply-To: <19981202215730.B23018@gvr.org> References: <199812021626.LAA27156@pcnet1.pcnet.com> <199812021636.JAA06068@mt.sri.com> <19981202215730.B23018@gvr.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > In my previous mail I already stated why things can go wrong if the > www server on the internet has a badly configured packet filter. > In your case it seems that your router is badly configured. Does it > filter out ICMP ICMP_UNREACH_NEEDFRAG pakcets from the ethernet to > the ouside, but not from your router to the outside? See my followup. I don't filter out ICMP type 3 packets, but instead allow them. (I can't take any credit for this, it was part of the firewall ruleset PHK gave me years ago...) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 13:12:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA05187 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:12:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05178 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:12:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA26481; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:12:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA07817; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:12:01 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:12:01 -0700 Message-Id: <199812022112.OAA07817@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Marc Slemko Cc: Nate Williams , Daniel Eischen , dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Subject: Re: TCP bug In-Reply-To: References: <199812022029.NAA07307@mt.sri.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > If you make a connection directly from the box with the low MTU, it knows > > > to advertise a low MSS so no one will try to send packets that are too > > > big. > > > > Fair enough. So, is PMTU working from that box? > > You mean PMTU-D; the PMTU (path MTU) is simply a term describing the > smallest MTU of any link along the path. Gotcha. I'm not trying to mess up the terminology, so feel free to correct any misconceptions I have. > It isn't working so much as it has no need to be invoked so it isn't > failing. Ok so far. > > > If you make a connection from a high MTU box behind it, then it will > > > advertise a large MSS so the remote end will try sending large segments. > > > If the first <1500 MTU is at the "router" referred to above, then for some > > > reason an ICMP can't fragment message probably is not getting from the > > > machine on the other side of the router's SLIP link to the origin host. > > > > The box it's connected to is another FreeBSD box. > > > > The way it looks is: > > > > Internet <-> FreeBSD firewall <----> FreeBSD router <----> Internal box > > > > The FreeBSD firewall box is allowing ICMP type 3 packets through (per > > your WWW page) so PMTU should work from my end at least. You're saying > > that the ICMP message is getting blocked somewhere between my firewall > > box and www.nfl.com, right? > > Right, probably very close to www.nfl.com. Agreed. > > And, because my 'SLIP' box is originally broadcasting an MTU of 552, > > there is never any need to fragment the packet. > > > > It's starting to make sense to me. > > > > So, let me summarize. Let's call my Slip router box 'trout', and my > > Internal box behind it 'caddis'. > > > > trout has no trouble connecting to these 'broken' machines on the internet > > because it initially advertises a window of 552, so 'www.nfl.com' > > generates packets no bigger than that. > > > > However, poor 'caddis' advertises a window of 1500, which is received by > > It isn't the window that it is advertising, but the mss. If you look at > your tcpdumps, the "mss 1460" or "mss 512" bits in the SYN show each end's > mss. The mss is the mtu - 40; ie. the maximum packet size minus the size > of the headers, so the mss is the amount of actual data that can fit in > one packet while the mtu is the total size of the packet. Ok. > > 'www.nfl.com' which sends a packet of size '1500'. This is too big, so > > 'trout' doesn't get it because when my firewall drops it (due to the DF > > flag being sent) because it can't send it to trout who has a small SLIP > > mtu of 552 (< 1500). > > > > So far so good, and it even makes sense. > > > > However, *WHY* does the IPFW code on trout think it has a packet from > > 'www.nfl.com' even though the packet should have been dropped at the > > firewall because all traffic to caddis has to be split into chunks of 552? > > I think that is a different packet you are seeing that comes later or > something. Nope. 'caddis' had only one connection up at the time, and I zero'd out the firewall entries before I started the connection attempt, and stopped the attempt before I dumped out the information. Nothing else was running on caddis (it's a Win95 box). > > Also, why does the packet sent from www.nfl.com have the DF flag set? > > Is that part of the PMTU code? > > Yes. The whole way that PMTU-D works is to set the DF bit on packets and, > if it finds they are too big, then it can try a smaller size (on modern > routers, the system sending the can't fragment will include the actual MTU > in the ICMP response so the remote system doesn't even have to guess). So, www.nfl.com assumes PMTU-D is working but some router between my box and it is blocking ICMP-Type 3 packets, essentially breaking PMTU-D? > > See above. Here is another attempt where I'm running two tcpdumps at > > the same time on the different interfaces. Do they make any more sense? > > > > I am also showing the firewall information as well, which has it's only > > purpose to show that some sort of packet is received destined for caddis > > from www.nfl.com that never makes it onto the wire. > > There is something broken going on with your tcpdumps. The second one (of > le0) doesn't even show the SYN from www.nfl.com to caddis, but it has to > be getting there since otherwise the connection couldn't proceed. It > shows no traffic from www.nfl.com, which is obviously bogus. > > So obviously, for some reason, the le0 tcpdump isn't showing what is > really happening. I don't use the le driver; oh, ok, it is probably that > the driver or the card can't see packets that it puts on the wire. Things > make more sense now. So I would suggest you either dump the le0 traffic > from a different system that can see it or just ignore that dump. Hmm, that'll be difficult since the only machines on the network in question are either generating traffic or routing it. I'll grab my laptop and bring it home to run tcpdump. However, is it safe to run tcpdump on the SLIP connection w/out getting any weird behavior? I have to run it on one of the boxes generating traffic since there isn't any machine in between. :) :) > Now, you still do have one extra packet from www.nfl.com showing up at the > end of the ipfw output that doesn't show up in the sl0 tcpdump. Are you > sure that packet just didn't come in after you had stopped the tcpdump but > before you looked at the ipfw logs? If you are logging the ipfw messages > in /var/log/kern or something, look at the timestamps there. It shouldn't given my test setup. I'll bring my laptop home tonight and setup another test and maybe it'll shed some more light on things. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 13:14:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA05322 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:14:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.tar.com (ns.tar.com [204.95.187.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05317 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:14:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lists@tar.com) Received: from ppro.tar.com (ppro.tar.com [204.95.187.9]) by ns.tar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA00894; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:13:33 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from lists@tar.com) Message-Id: <199812022113.PAA00894@ns.tar.com> From: "Richard Seaman, Jr." To: "John Birrell" Cc: "eischen@vigrid.com" , "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Date: Wed, 02 Dec 98 15:13:33 -0600 Reply-To: "Richard Seaman, Jr." X-Mailer: PMMail 1.92 For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: pthread_cancel() function... Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 3 Dec 1998 07:43:36 +1100 (EST), John Birrell wrote: >Richard Seaman, Jr. wrote: >> In the case of libc_r, you probably don't want to alias it >> to _thread_sys_xxx, since you probably want the wrappers for >> the blocking syscalls to be used in libc_r. If you rename >> the uthread syscall wrappers from xxx to _xxx (eg. _read) >> and then implement xxx as a wrapper of _xxx that implements >> cancellation points, you'd be consistent. > >Why do you need a second wrapper? The fact that a syscall has been >wrappered for libc_r is sufficient to include any cancellation checks >in the _existing_ wrapper code. Sure. The problem, as I see it (and I guess I'm not explaining it well), is that you if you wrap it all in one call, you propagate cancellation points to every libc and libc_r function that calls the wrapped call. Taking read as an example, I think you need two versions of read. One that implements cancellation points, that the end user will call. And, one that doesn't, that you would use internally within libc and libc_r, so you don't propagate cancellation points where you're not supposed to have them. >I don't think it is sufficient to just add what you call "wrappers". >AFAIK, the thread cancellation is supposed to occur at any time while >the thread is in one of the specified functions, not just at the beginning >or at the end. This means that code is required to check the thread >state and do things conditionally on that. Well, consider implementing cancellation points like this: int read (......) { .... pthread_setcanceltype (PTHREAD_CANCEL_ASYNCHRONOUS, &oldtype); ret = _read(fd, buf, nbytes); pthread_setcanceltype (oldtype, NULL); return (ret); } Normally you'd expect pthread_setcanceltype to be a cancellation point itself. By setting the cancel type to ASYNCHRONOUS, you're allowing the thread to be cancelled at any time while its in this state. Thus you can be cancelled just before the _read call, just after it, and maybe while you're blocked in _read. What happens if you're blocked in the _read call really depends on how you implement ASYNCHRONOUS cancellation. If you implement pthread_cancel as a signal, PTHREAD_SIG_CANCEL, and if you ensure that the signal handler for PTHREAD_SIG_CANCEL causes _read to return EINTR (at least if the cancellation type is ASYNCHRONOUS), then you'll get out of _read early. With the current signal handling, you would probably have to pre-empt some existing signal (eg. SIGUSR2) to serve as PTHREAD_SIG_CANCEL, and control the end user's access to that signal. >The standard says that certain functions /may/ have cancellation points, >but the "implementation shall not introduce cancellation points into >any other POSIX.1 or C standard functions". Ensuring that this is the >case is the PITA. Thats the point I've been trying to make, apparently without success. >And writing test code that exercises all the possible >combinations is impossible IMHO. Well, with the "two layer" wrapping I was suggesting, you'd never use a function that is a cancellation point within libc, libc_r or within a "normal" syscall. Only functions that are exported by libc or libc_r for use outside the library itself would have cancellation points implemented in them. That way, you could see by inspection where cancellation points exist. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 13:19:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA05885 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:19:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05877 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:19:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA10350; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:26:57 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199812022126.IAA10350@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: pthread_cancel() function... In-Reply-To: <199812022058.PAA02860@pcnet1.pcnet.com> from Daniel Eischen at "Dec 2, 98 03:58:53 pm" To: eischen@vigrid.com (Daniel Eischen) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:26:57 +1100 (EST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, lists@tar.com, eischen@vigrid.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Daniel Eischen wrote: > > I don't think it is sufficient to just add what you call "wrappers". > > AFAIK, the thread cancellation is supposed to occur at any time while > > the thread is in one of the specified functions, not just at the beginning > > or at the end. This means that code is required to check the thread > > state and do things conditionally on that. > > Yech! You're talking only about cancellable libc routines, though, > right (system calls have no concept of userland thread states)? Well, as far as the standard is concerned, there is no distinction between libc routines and syscalls - that's just part of the implementation. Of the required cancellation points, most are already wrappered syscalls. The list of functions that are allowed to contain cancellation points appears to contain traditional libc functions that are written in terms of the required cancellation points. I guess this is why the standard allows for them. The bit that scares me, though, is all the rest. And then there is the user code. What happens when a programmer relies on a particular cancellation implementation in Solaris and ours behaves slightly differently? (I know the answer to this 8-) -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 13:28:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06824 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:28:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gvr.gvr.org (gvr.gvr.org [194.151.74.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06807 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:28:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from guido@gvr.org) Received: (from guido@localhost) by gvr.gvr.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) id WAA23322; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 22:27:02 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981202222702.A23308@gvr.org> Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 22:27:02 +0100 From: Guido van Rooij To: Nate Williams Cc: Daniel Eischen , dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Subject: Re: TCP bug References: <199812021626.LAA27156@pcnet1.pcnet.com> <199812021636.JAA06068@mt.sri.com> <19981202215730.B23018@gvr.org> <199812022104.OAA07720@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199812022104.OAA07720@mt.sri.com>; from Nate Williams on Wed, Dec 02, 1998 at 02:04:20PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Dec 02, 1998 at 02:04:20PM -0700, Nate Williams wrote: > > In my previous mail I already stated why things can go wrong if the > > www server on the internet has a badly configured packet filter. > > In your case it seems that your router is badly configured. Does it > > filter out ICMP ICMP_UNREACH_NEEDFRAG pakcets from the ethernet to > > the ouside, but not from your router to the outside? > > See my followup. I don't filter out ICMP type 3 packets, but instead > allow them. (I can't take any credit for this, it was part of the > firewall ruleset PHK gave me years ago...) Yes I saw that too late. Anyway the bottom line is that the amount of clue on the internet is realling getting so low that new developments (well..new) like path MTU discovery can no longer be used. And when you try to convince the owners of the web site to change their packet filter (because usually it is theirs that is causing the problems) you easily give up after talking to the n-th clueless person. It is my fear that the current cluelessness will have a severe impact on other new developments as well. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 13:33:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA07401 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:33:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07396 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:33:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA26650; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:30:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA07967; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:30:28 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:30:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199812022130.OAA07967@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Guido van Rooij Cc: Nate Williams , Daniel Eischen , dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Subject: Re: TCP bug In-Reply-To: <19981202222702.A23308@gvr.org> References: <199812021626.LAA27156@pcnet1.pcnet.com> <199812021636.JAA06068@mt.sri.com> <19981202215730.B23018@gvr.org> <199812022104.OAA07720@mt.sri.com> <19981202222702.A23308@gvr.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > In my previous mail I already stated why things can go wrong if the > > > www server on the internet has a badly configured packet filter. > > > In your case it seems that your router is badly configured. Does it > > > filter out ICMP ICMP_UNREACH_NEEDFRAG pakcets from the ethernet to > > > the ouside, but not from your router to the outside? > > > > See my followup. I don't filter out ICMP type 3 packets, but instead > > allow them. (I can't take any credit for this, it was part of the > > firewall ruleset PHK gave me years ago...) > > Yes I saw that too late. Anyway the bottom line is that the amount of clue > on the internet is realling getting so low that new developments (well..new) > like path MTU discovery can no longer be used. And when you try to > convince the owners of the web site to change their packet filter > (because usually it is theirs that is causing the problems) you easily > give up after talking to the n-th clueless person. > > It is my fear that the current cluelessness will have a severe impact > on other new developments as well. Well, thanks to you folks, my level of cluelessness is dropping. :) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 14:28:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA12989 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:28:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ceia.nordier.com (m2-54-dbn.dial-up.net [196.34.155.118]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA12979 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:28:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rnordier@nordier.com) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by ceia.nordier.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id AAA12106; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 00:26:44 +0200 (SAT) From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199812022226.AAA12106@ceia.nordier.com> Subject: Re: Year 2k and PC hardware In-Reply-To: from Robert Watson at "Dec 2, 98 03:41:53 pm" To: robert+freebsd@cyrus.watson.org Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 00:26:41 +0200 (SAT) Cc: jbryant@unix.tfs.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Robert Watson wrote: > On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Jim Bryant wrote: > > > In reply: > > > Having recently visited the web pages of a number of the hardware vendors > > > of machines I run FreeBSD on, I am a little concerned about some of the > > > older machines. For example, Gateway 2000 refers to BIOS fixes for > > > >= pentium machines that fix the bios access functions for the real time > > > clock. However, they note that the fix does not apply if the OS attempts > > > to access the RTC directly (I'm not sure what this means -- I don't know > > > how the RTC is implemented on PC machines). Similarly, Dell suggested the > > > > the original ibm at, and every "compatable" rtc on the market stores > > the year as a 4 digit bcd number. hardware problem solved, circa > > 1984. > > Gateway 2000 seems to dispute this claim -- not that I necessarily believe > everything they say (I'm not impressed by GW2K), I am concerned by the > seeming inconsistency: > > http://www.gateway2000.com/frameset2.asp?s=corp&p=support&a=&url=/corp/y2k/y2k/default.html [ ... ] The Gateway 2000 explanation is essentially correct. The PC RTC is a Motorola MC146818 or compatible chip which presents itself as 64 bytes of CMOS memory. The first 14 bytes are wired to the RTC clock itself; the remaining 50 bytes are storage only (not updated by the RTC logic) and are intended for passive retention of configuration data. The year is accessible at offset 0x9 in BCD (00-99). The century is stored at offset 0x32 (on standard PCs) usually also in BCD (eg. 19), but this is not part of the RTC, just of the CMOS storage area. To correct the problem, logic would typically examine the RTC "year" value and apply a common-sense correction such as: century = year >= 70 ? 19 : 20; If the PC BIOS correctly honors the century (offset 0x32) value, a once-off correction may be all that's needed; and this could even be done by hand. Otherwise, resident real address mode code would have to be loaded (a TSR or device driver). That "fixes" the BIOS, which would be the concern of the hardware vendor. However, whether the BIOS was fixed or not, most recent operating systems including FreeBSD, would have an option to apply a similar {0-69, 70-99} interpretation to the RTC year value. For FreeBSD handling of the RTC, see src/sys/i386/isa/clock.c. -- Robert Nordier To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 15:25:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA19116 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:25:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA19093 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:24:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id AAA22110 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 00:24:30 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id 484FD1536; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 23:58:33 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 23:58:33 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? Message-ID: <19981202235833.A1061@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <1958.912571118@zippy.cdrom.com> <19981202165155.B21015@follo.net> <19981202173352.A32164@klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.94.16i In-Reply-To: <19981202173352.A32164@klemm.gtn.com>; from Andreas Klemm on Wed, Dec 02, 1998 at 05:33:52PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#4856 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Andreas Klemm: > FreeBSD is their main developement platform and I have the feeling > they are more than willed to contribute their work to us and > generally *BSD... Ahem, this can be said for INRIA as well as Francis is a FreeBSD user, has worked for NetBSD too (even before FreeBSD) and his work has been included in NetBSD and I think OpenBSD. This is also the base for AIX stuff (like it or not, IBM took the INRIA code not another one). We have at least two people (including one committer) willing to port & maintain to 3.0 & CURRENT. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #2: Sun Nov 8 01:22:20 CET 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 15:25:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA19182 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:25:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA19159 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:25:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id AAA22126 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 00:25:01 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id 207F91536; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 00:00:27 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 00:00:27 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? Message-ID: <19981203000027.B1061@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19981202172824.A23747@klemm.gtn.com> <8701.912631921@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.94.16i In-Reply-To: <8701.912631921@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Wed, Dec 02, 1998 at 12:52:01PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#4856 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Jordan K. Hubbard: > currently in use at several sites in Europe. If we went to the KAME > stuff right now, today, would we be able to offer these users the same > degree of functionality or would KAME represent a "loss" from their > perspective? They're supposed to be able to talk to each others. Key distribution (IKE) is still a hot topic for every IPsec implementation anyway. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #2: Sun Nov 8 01:22:20 CET 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 15:31:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA19918 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:31:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.gtn.com (mail.gtn.com [194.77.0.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA19876 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:31:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mail.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id AAA26274; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 00:30:06 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA26895; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 00:26:29 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19981203002629.A26879@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 00:26:29 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Eivind Eklund , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? References: <19981202172824.A23747@klemm.gtn.com> <8701.912631921@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <8701.912631921@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Wed, Dec 02, 1998 at 12:52:01PM -0800 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Dec 02, 1998 at 12:52:01PM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > The offer -STABLE source and -CURRENT Snaps. > > Things they are working on is: > > > > - IPv6 > > - IPsec > > - advanced packet queuing, ATM, mobility,.... > > One has to ask the obvious question, however: The existing IPSec stuff > that's been submitted for commit approval is fully functional and > currently in use at several sites in Europe. If we went to the KAME > stuff right now, today, would we be able to offer these users the same > degree of functionality or would KAME represent a "loss" from their > perspective? Could the people you mention evaluate KAME on a 2.2.7 system ? Or could perhaps a dialogue between those people and KAME developers help to do the right decision ? I personally don't know people using IPsec... Andreas /// -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas What gives you 90% more speed, for example, in kernel compilation ? http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html "NT = Not Today" (Maggie Biggs) ``powered by FreeBSD SMP'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 15:36:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA20490 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:36:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from csmd2.cs.uni-magdeburg.de (csmd2.CS.Uni-Magdeburg.De [141.44.22.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA20344 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:35:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jesse@prinz-atm.CS.Uni-Magdeburg.De) Received: from knecht.cs.uni-magdeburg.de (knecht [141.44.21.3]) by csmd2.cs.uni-magdeburg.de (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA18071 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 00:34:38 +0100 (MET) Received: (from jesse@localhost) by knecht.cs.uni-magdeburg.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) id AAA10960; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 00:33:35 +0100 (MET) From: Roland Jesse MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13925.52811.647477.37649@knecht> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 00:33:31 +0100 (MET) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Trouble compiling ACE 4.6 X-Mailer: VM 6.62 under Emacs 19.34.1 Reply-To: Roland Jesse X-Organization: University of Magdeburg X-Pgp-Fingerprint: 5D 08 5A E3 B4 AA 68 C1 FF 67 06 29 62 DD 9A D7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I am currently trying to compile ACE 4.6 (http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/ACE_wrappers/) on my FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE machine. To do so, I am using the freebsd-pthread configuration that is shipped with ACE. The make process exits with error messages like: ------- snip ------- /usr/local/ACE_wrappers/ace/Synch_T.cpp:25: parse error before `template' In file included from /usr/local/ACE_wrappers/ace/Free_List.h:137, from /usr/local/ACE_wrappers/ace/Malloc_T.h:28, from /usr/local/ACE_wrappers/ace/Malloc.h:260, from /usr/local/ACE_wrappers/ace/Containers_T.cpp:8, from /usr/local/ACE_wrappers/ace/Containers_T.h:1513, from /usr/local/ACE_wrappers/ace/Containers.h:63, from /usr/local/ACE_wrappers/ace/Thread_Manager.h:27, from Log_Msg.cpp:24: /usr/local/ACE_wrappers/ace/Free_List.cpp:12: `ace' was not declared in this sco pe /usr/local/ACE_wrappers/ace/Free_List.cpp:12: `Free_List' was not declared in th is scope ------- snap ------- I put the whole output of the make process to http://www.apfel.de/~jesse/gmake.ACE.out. Any hints of what I am missing or what else is going wrong are greatly appreciated. Roland To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 15:39:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA20854 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:39:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA20843 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:39:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA09783; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:40:45 -0800 (PST) To: Ollivier Robert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 02 Dec 1998 23:58:33 +0100." <19981202235833.A1061@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 15:40:41 -0800 Message-ID: <9779.912642041@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Ahem, this can be said for INRIA as well as Francis is a FreeBSD user, has > worked for NetBSD too (even before FreeBSD) and his work has been included > in NetBSD and I think OpenBSD. This is also the base for AIX stuff (like it > or not, IBM took the INRIA code not another one). > > We have at least two people (including one committer) willing to port & > maintain to 3.0 & CURRENT. What is the status of it now, however? Does it work with -current and exist in a committable state? Does IPv6 and IPSec work? What about OpenBSD's stated intention to merge the INRIA work with their own and standardise on some sort of "hybrid" project? Is INRIA taking this work back? I'm still waiting for some sort of indication that KAME does all of these things, for example. Everyone says it's good, but nobody will say whether or not it works well enough to replace the IPSec port which is sitting in our PR database and, as I said, is being actually used in real-life situations. If neither KAME nor INRIA is ready to perform this role yet, that's something we also need to be aware of. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 15:40:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA21140 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:40:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA21133 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:40:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA09804; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:42:17 -0800 (PST) To: Ollivier Robert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 03 Dec 1998 00:00:27 +0100." <19981203000027.B1061@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 15:42:16 -0800 Message-ID: <9801.912642136@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > They're supposed to be able to talk to each others. Key distribution (IKE) > is still a hot topic for every IPsec implementation anyway. Yes, but Photuris seems to work "well enough" to serve OpenBSD's needs and all I'm looking for is an equivalent level of functionality. I'll say it again, if either KAME or INRIA can give us _equivalent_ functionality to what's being used today, I'd say the choice will be pretty clear since it's not the vaporware features we want to be basing our decision on. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 15:42:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA21423 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:42:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA21417 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:42:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA09837; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:43:50 -0800 (PST) To: Andreas Klemm cc: Eivind Eklund , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 03 Dec 1998 00:26:29 +0100." <19981203002629.A26879@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 15:43:50 -0800 Message-ID: <9834.912642230@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Could the people you mention evaluate KAME on a 2.2.7 system ? > Or could perhaps a dialogue between those people and KAME > developers help to do the right decision ? I personally don't > know people using IPsec... I'm not really interested in what it does on 2.2.7, to be perfectly honest. It's good that the old releases be supported, don't misunderstand me, but 3.0 is the future and if it's not running in -current then it's just not a candidate for merging to that branch, for the obvious reasons. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 15:54:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22878 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:54:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from set.scient.com (set.Scient.COM [208.29.209.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA22871 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:54:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from enkhyl@scient.com) Received: by set.scient.com; (5.65v4.0/1.3/10May95) id AA06061; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:53:50 -0800 Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:53:39 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Nielsen X-Sender: enkhyl@ender.sf.scient.com Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com To: Eivind Eklund Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? In-Reply-To: <19981202165155.B21015@follo.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: > Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:51:55 +0100 > From: Eivind Eklund > To: Jordan K. Hubbard , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? > > On Tue, Dec 01, 1998 at 07:58:38PM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Today is December 1st (in my timezone, anyway) and we're rapidly > > running out of year. When we brought this up 6 months or so ago, the > > general concensus seemed to be that we'd make *some* sort of decision > > on which way to go by the end of the year. Well, here we are. It's > > not like our brethren OSes have exactly stood still in this department > > and what's worse is that we have numerous people standing in the wings > > just WANTING TO DO THE WORK if someone will only let them, one example > > being IPSec which is currently languishing in our PR database and has > > been freely discussed on forums like Daemon News (see > > http://www.daemonnews.org/199812/security.html). > > > > This fence rail is pointy and cold and I think we're all going to come > > down with an embarrassing medical condition if we keep sitting on it. > > Since nobody else seems to want to say anything: KAME. My impression > is that it is more mature _and_ have more developers (both from among > our own committers and in general). I agree with Eivind on this. I've been poking around in both the INRIA and KAME code, and IMHO, the KAME code appears much cleaner. It's also well supported, as Eivind pointed out. I had started working on integrating the KAME distribution into -current, but I haven't had as much time as I had expected. -- Christopher Nielsen Scient: The eBusiness Systems Innovator cnielsen@scient.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 16:33:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA28524 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:33:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from omahpop1.omah.uswest.net (omahpop1.omah.uswest.net [204.26.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA28517 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:33:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from opsys@open-systems.net) Received: (qmail 8415 invoked by alias); 3 Dec 1998 00:33:04 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-hackers@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 8387 invoked by uid 0); 3 Dec 1998 00:33:02 -0000 Received: from dialupb181.ne.uswest.net (HELO pinkfloyd.open-systems.net) (209.180.96.181) by omahpop1.omah.uswest.net with SMTP; 3 Dec 1998 00:33:02 -0000 Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 18:33:01 -0600 (CST) From: "Open Systems Inc." To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: Eivind Eklund , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I think the point thats been made about WHO is going to maintain this code should as well be taken into consideration. KAME promises to maintain it upto and until the project ends in 2000. Then what? Are any KAME folks commiters? If so are those committers willing to say they will maintain the code after 2K? I have stated I like the fact it has alot of corporate push behind it and there actively developing it I believe at least 3 days a week. But that won't do much good come 2K and everyone dissapears. So I think that has to be weighed as well. I don't think this is any easier than the last 4 times this has come up, but I agree we need to decide on something now. Chris "If you aim the gun at your foot and pull the trigger, it's UNIX's job to ensure reliable delivery of the bullet to where you aimed the gun (in this case, Mr. Foot)." -- Terry Lambert, FreeBSD-Hackers mailing list. ===================================| Open Systems FreeBSD Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.8 is available now! | Phone: 402-573-9124 -----------------------------------| 3335 N. 103 Plaza #14, Omaha, NE 68134 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting, Network Engineering, Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 17:09:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA02978 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:09:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (ppp10.portal.net.au [202.12.71.110]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA02970 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:09:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA01131; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:00:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812030100.RAA01131@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: zhihuizhang cc: hackers Subject: Re: Interrupt handler and interrupt unit? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 02 Dec 1998 11:19:03 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 17:00:07 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > In the source code isa.c, I find the definition of intr_unit[]. I have no > idea what is an interrupt unit and how it is used. Maybe it refers to one > of several device units connected by a single controller and that > controller is assigned one IRQ by OS or hardware jumpers? It's the saved unit number that's passed to the interrupt handler when invoked. > Also, I want to know what specific information is passed to the system > when an interrupt occurs. I read in a book on device driver, it only says > this is OS and hardware dependent. Which part of the system? The general practice is that the hardware ultimately forwards an identifier for the interrupt number; everything else is determined from that. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 17:11:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA03342 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:11:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (ppp10.portal.net.au [202.12.71.110]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA03312 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:11:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA00946; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:35:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812030035.QAA00946@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Ollivier Robert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 02 Dec 1998 23:58:33 +0100." <19981202235833.A1061@keltia.freenix.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 16:35:11 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > According to Andreas Klemm: > > FreeBSD is their main developement platform and I have the feeling > > they are more than willed to contribute their work to us and > > generally *BSD... > > Ahem, this can be said for INRIA as well as Francis is a FreeBSD user, has > worked for NetBSD too (even before FreeBSD) and his work has been included > in NetBSD and I think OpenBSD. This is also the base for AIX stuff (like it > or not, IBM took the INRIA code not another one). > > We have at least two people (including one committer) willing to port & > maintain to 3.0 & CURRENT. As opposed to a team of more than six, payrolled for three days a week to do nothing but develop and maintain the KAME stack? No offense to Francis or the INRIA folks, but the level of commitment offered by the KAME team is not matched by any other contender. It's also worth noting that all of the other offerings have already been adopted by one camp or the other. This makes for another good argument for KAME in the name of supporting diversity. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 17:49:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA07522 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:49:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from set.scient.com (set.Scient.COM [208.29.209.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA07517 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:49:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from enkhyl@scient.com) Received: by set.scient.com; (5.65v4.0/1.3/10May95) id AA13703; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:48:21 -0800 Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:48:09 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Nielsen X-Sender: enkhyl@ender.sf.scient.com Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Ollivier Robert , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? In-Reply-To: <9801.912642136@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > They're supposed to be able to talk to each others. Key distribution (IKE) > > is still a hot topic for every IPsec implementation anyway. > > Yes, but Photuris seems to work "well enough" to serve OpenBSD's needs > and all I'm looking for is an equivalent level of functionality. I'll > say it again, if either KAME or INRIA can give us _equivalent_ > functionality to what's being used today, I'd say the choice will be > pretty clear since it's not the vaporware features we want to be > basing our decision on. I think OpenBSD just recently started to develop IKE in their IPsec implementation (this is based on commit messages I saw go by). The port that's sitting in the PR database uses Photuris, which only supports pre-shared secrets. KAME is starting to use IKE for establishing SAs (Security Associations). IKE is the future of IPsec. KAME also supports IPsec in both IPv6 and IPv4. Also, I'd say Mike Smith has a good point about three active, paid, full-time developers for KAME, as well. -- Christopher Nielsen Scient: The eBusiness Systems Innovator cnielsen@scient.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 20:10:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA22975 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 20:10:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.196.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA22964; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 20:10:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (IDENT:I3OOfWtnDYmiOxaRVXYhIIGiq7X/idr3@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA08582; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:10:02 +0900 (JST) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.7.6+2.6Wbeta7/3.4W/zodiac-May96) with ESMTP id NAA27727; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:11:51 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199812030411.NAA27727@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> To: Nick Hibma , sos@FreeBSD.ORG cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: major/minor numbers In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Dec 1998 14:30:04 +0100." References: Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 13:11:50 +0900 From: Kazutaka YOKOTA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >For USB support I need at least 1 but possible 3 or more major numbers. > > usb0 > >and possibly > > ums0 > ulpt0 > ucuaa0 (maybe) We shall be needing major numbers for the ISA AT keyboard and the USB keyboard too. With USB, we can have multiple keyboards together with the standard ISA AT keyboard. The user will use either one keyboard for his/her console and may use the other keyboards as auxiliary input device. We need device nodes for them. It won't be long before this will happen; I am currently working on splitting and generalizing keyboard I/O code from syscons and implementing mechanisms for syscons to use whatever keyboard available in the system, and the other keyboard will be made readable via a cdev device driver. Nick and Soeren, I will be sending you a snapshot of the experimental code to you tonight. It's almost finished :-) >Brian Feldman came up with the idea to use major numbers together with >other drivers, for example have ums use the numbers that also psm uses >(their both PS/2 mice). Anyone tried this? Sounds a bit odd if you do >not want to divide minor number space amongst them statically. I may be wrong, but, my understanding is... When the kernel accesses device driver functions, it will invoke them as: (*cdevsw[major(dev)]->d_open)(dev); This means if we are to share a major number between different drivers, we need to have a way to multiplex access to the drivers via a single major number. Do we have such mechanisms in our kernel now? Kazu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 22:22:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA05145 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 22:22:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from unix.tfs.net (as2-p21.tfs.net [139.146.205.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA05125 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 22:22:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) id AAA22863; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 00:22:12 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199812030622.AAA22863@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: Year 2k and PC hardware In-Reply-To: from Robert Watson at "Dec 2, 98 03:39:53 pm" To: robert+freebsd@cyrus.watson.org Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 00:22:09 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-files: The truth is that the X-Files is fiction X-Republican: The best kind!!! X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Sat Jun 20 11:57:05 CDT 1998 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply: > > anyhow, freebsd does not operate in "bootstrap" mode [real mode] like > > dos/winblowz does. the specified purpose of real mode is for > > bootstrapping into protected mode. don't worry about the bios, unless > > you use mickey mouse products from mickeysoft. > > I would disagree -- real mode is not even a very good bootstrap mode -- > it's really just so they can claim it runs DOS. There is no good reason > to boot up in a 20-bit address mode if you are just their to bootstrap to > a 32-bit virtual address mode. If it were really there to be a boostrap > mode, it would bootstrap to a physically addressed 32-bit address mode, > and then you would bump into protected mode (and virtual addressing) > later if you felt like it. Or on like on an Alpha, where the physical > memory is addressable directly via a portion of the virtual address space > (helps if you are 64-bit). No, real mode is just a cheap hack so that DOS > could run on a 386 because there were few real operating systems > available. actually i use the statement "The primary purpose of Real Mode is to set up the processor for Protected Mode Operation." on page 3-1 of the "Intel 486 DX2 Microprocessor Databook, 1992" as the reference point for my statement. btw: pages 3-1 and 3-2 are the complete documentation for real mode operation. this theme is also followed in the pentium arch/prog manual [vol 3] where they actually added a page for a total of three pages for real mode. > > > (I was also unhappy to see that my bank is not very Y2k-ready just yet :( > > > ) > > > > find a bank that is. put your money there. any firm that hasn't > > brought their systems into compliance by september 1, 1999 deserves to > > lose business and/or go bankrupt. darwinean economics. > > I agree, and am in the process of doing that now. Only I would personally > not have chosen such a poor date as Sept 1, 1999. I think any firm that > isn't in compliance by *now* is not acting responsibly. :) Good thing > they're training those air traffic controllers to do it all by hand, huh. > :) well, i see sept 1st as the point of no return... what is the first problem date, 9/9/99? jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Dec 2 23:37:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA12683 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 23:37:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Thingol.KryptoKom.DE (Thingol.KryptoKom.DE [194.245.91.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA12677 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 23:37:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Reinier.Bezuidenhout@KryptoKom.DE) Received: (from mail@localhost) by Thingol.KryptoKom.DE (8.8.7/8.8.4) id IAA04172; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:31:52 +0100 Received: from cirdan.kryptokom.de by via smtpp (Version 1.1.1beta6) id kwa04169; Thu Dec 03 08:31:39 1998 Received: by Cirdan.KryptoKom.DE (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA14858; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:26:49 +0100 Received: (from bez@localhost) by borg.kryptokom.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA06479; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:36:56 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from bez) From: Reinier Bezuidenhout Message-Id: <199812030736.IAA06479@borg.kryptokom.de> Subject: Re: TCP bug In-Reply-To: <199812021720.KAA06413@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Dec 2, 1998 10:20:54 am" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:36:56 +0100 (CET) Cc: ru@ucb.crimea.ua, rivers@dignus.com, eischen@vigrid.com, nate@mt.sri.com, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi ... I've missed some of the discussion, so if this is totally in the wrong direction .. :) We had a similar problem once when we had a 2.2.6 version of FreeBSD running and a ppp line connection and from there a ethernet going out to an ISP. The symptoms were that some sites on the internet would be reachable and others not. (We had ipfw running on the FreeBSD machine). After adding a "deny log all from any to any" just before the default rule, we saw that fragmented packets were alse being tested against the firewall rules would thus fail because of weird port numbers. We changed the MTU on the ppp line ( mmmm now I'm not sure if it was ppp or slip :/ ) to 1500 and then everything worked fine. I seem to remember a commit for ipfw that fixed this problem but I'm not sure. :) Maybe this helps Bye Reinier > > > On my internal network; I can't get to some sites (www.aol.com being > > > the best example.) > > > > > > But, If I'm on the gateway machine - it has no problems getting there. > > > > > > Thus, I was implicating natd. > > > > > > And - it so happens; my connection is a SL/IP connection, and my MTU > > > is 552. > > > > Some sites block ICMP and thus break PMTU discovery. > > Umm, if this is the case, why would we be having a problem with a > network segment with a smaller MTU not being able to send packets to a > network with a bigger MTU? It would seem to me that the small MTU > network connection would be the one having the problems, not the larger > MTU network connection. > > > Nate > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 01:38:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA21926 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 01:38:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gvr.gvr.org (gvr.gvr.org [194.151.74.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA21920 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 01:38:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from guido@gvr.org) Received: (from guido@localhost) by gvr.gvr.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) id KAA26513; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:37:46 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981203103746.A26507@gvr.org> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:37:46 +0100 From: Guido van Rooij To: Nate Williams Cc: Daniel Eischen , dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Subject: Re: TCP bug References: <199812021626.LAA27156@pcnet1.pcnet.com> <199812021636.JAA06068@mt.sri.com> <19981202215730.B23018@gvr.org> <199812022104.OAA07720@mt.sri.com> <19981202222702.A23308@gvr.org> <199812022130.OAA07967@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199812022130.OAA07967@mt.sri.com>; from Nate Williams on Wed, Dec 02, 1998 at 02:30:28PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Dec 02, 1998 at 02:30:28PM -0700, Nate Williams wrote: > > Well, thanks to you folks, my level of cluelessness is dropping. :) > Eh..I was certainly NOT referring to you ;-) -Guido To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 02:05:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA23965 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 02:05:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.gtn.com (mail.gtn.com [194.77.0.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA23960 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 02:05:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mail.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id LAA28042; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:00:13 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA15828; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:53:02 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19981203085302.B1209@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:53:02 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Eivind Eklund , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? References: <19981203002629.A26879@klemm.gtn.com> <9834.912642230@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <9834.912642230@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Wed, Dec 02, 1998 at 03:43:50PM -0800 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Dec 02, 1998 at 03:43:50PM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Could the people you mention evaluate KAME on a 2.2.7 system ? > > Or could perhaps a dialogue between those people and KAME > > developers help to do the right decision ? I personally don't > > know people using IPsec... > > I'm not really interested in what it does on 2.2.7, to be perfectly > honest. It's good that the old releases be supported, don't > misunderstand me, but 3.0 is the future and if it's not running in > -current then it's just not a candidate for merging to that branch, > for the obvious reasons. Fully agreed. Fortunately KAME is available for -current as well. I only assumed that those people you mentioned would have 2.2.X systems. But indeed, one should ask the KAME developer, if they would agree to develope on 3.0 and later -current systems. This shouldn't be a problem if think if they would be more involved into the FreeBSD project via commit privs or such. -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas What gives you 90% more speed, for example, in kernel compilation ? http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html "NT = Not Today" (Maggie Biggs) ``powered by FreeBSD SMP'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 02:22:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA25390 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 02:22:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA25379; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 02:22:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA61695; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:20:52 GMT Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:20:52 +0000 (GMT) From: Doug Rabson To: Kazutaka YOKOTA cc: Nick Hibma , sos@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: major/minor numbers In-Reply-To: <199812030411.NAA27727@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote: > > >For USB support I need at least 1 but possible 3 or more major numbers. > > > > usb0 > > > >and possibly > > > > ums0 > > ulpt0 > > ucuaa0 (maybe) > > We shall be needing major numbers for the ISA AT keyboard and the USB > keyboard too. With USB, we can have multiple keyboards together with > the standard ISA AT keyboard. The user will use either one keyboard > for his/her console and may use the other keyboards as auxiliary input > device. We need device nodes for them. > > It won't be long before this will happen; I am currently working on > splitting and generalizing keyboard I/O code from syscons and > implementing mechanisms for syscons to use whatever keyboard available > in the system, and the other keyboard will be made readable via a cdev > device driver. > > Nick and Soeren, I will be sending you a snapshot of the experimental > code to you tonight. It's almost finished :-) Can we take this as an opportunity to move syscons out of sys/i386/isa and share the code between i386 and alpha (and any other pci based architectures which might appear). We can do this now if we segregate the device probe and attach methods and make sure that all accesses to video ram are wrapped up in macros. > > >Brian Feldman came up with the idea to use major numbers together with > >other drivers, for example have ums use the numbers that also psm uses > >(their both PS/2 mice). Anyone tried this? Sounds a bit odd if you do > >not want to divide minor number space amongst them statically. > > I may be wrong, but, my understanding is... > > When the kernel accesses device driver functions, it will invoke them > as: > > (*cdevsw[major(dev)]->d_open)(dev); > > This means if we are to share a major number between different > drivers, we need to have a way to multiplex access to the drivers via > a single major number. Do we have such mechanisms in our kernel now? It is possible to have two drivers which use the same major but only if exactly one of those drivers has attached device instances. The registration of the cdevsw would need to move to the attach method of the driver (its normally done by SYSINIT now). -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 02:23:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA25417 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 02:23:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from citadel.cdsec.com (citadel.cdsec.com [192.96.22.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA25408 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 02:22:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gram@cdsec.com) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by citadel.cdsec.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) id MAA01091 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:22:38 +0200 (SAST) Received: by citadel via recvmail id 1025; Thu Dec 3 12:21:55 1998 From: Graham Wheeler Message-Id: <199812031031.MAA29796@cdsec.com> Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:31:37 +0200 (SAT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25-h4.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just my $0.02: We are currently using KAME in our firewall, which is running on 2.2.7 at present. I know the concern is what about 3.x, but the KAME guys are aiming at that. Our experience is that the KAME guys are putting in a serious amount of effort (do they ever sleep, we sometimes wonder). The IPSec code is working well. The IKE code does transport mode but not tunnel mode at present, and only uses shared secret keys at present. But work is progressing at a good rate. Photuris may work, but never made it past the draft standard stage (even though it is arguably better than IKE). Photuris may be a short term solution, but eventually IKE must be supported. I'm not too familiar with the other IPSec implementations, but the level of commitment and progress being made by the KAME group gets them our vote. -- Dr Graham Wheeler E-mail: gram@cdsec.com Citadel Data Security Phone: +27(21)23-6065/6/7 Internet/Intranet Network Specialists Mobile: +27(83)253-9864 Firewalls/Virtual Private Networks Fax: +27(21)24-3656 Data Security Products WWW: http://www.cdsec.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 03:45:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA00312 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 03:45:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA00307 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 03:45:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pb@ludd.luth.se) Received: from father.ludd.luth.se (pb@father.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.18]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA12488 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:44:59 +0100 From: Peter Brevik Received: (pb@localhost) by father.ludd.luth.se (8.6.11/8.6.11) id MAA10185 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:44:58 +0100 Message-Id: <199812031144.MAA10185@father.ludd.luth.se> Subject: Disc limit? To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:44:58 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG What is the maximum limit for harddisc capacity in GB ..? SCSI & IDE.. (different?) /Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 10:11:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA03072 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:11:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gvr.gvr.org (gvr.gvr.org [194.151.74.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA03056 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:11:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from guido@gvr.org) Received: (from guido@localhost) by gvr.gvr.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) id TAA28078; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:10:01 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981203191001.A28037@gvr.org> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:10:01 +0100 From: Guido van Rooij To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Andreas Klemm Cc: Eivind Eklund , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? References: <19981202172824.A23747@klemm.gtn.com> <8701.912631921@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <8701.912631921@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Wed, Dec 02, 1998 at 12:52:01PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG First, Im no IPV6 expert. Having said that: Today I installed the WIDE stack on my system and it seems that their implementation cannot automatically handle mapped addresses. As an end user on a IPV6 system, when I do telnet foo.bar.org, the resolver will try if there exist an AAAA record for that host and talk IPV6 directly. When no such record is available, it will return an IPV6 mapped address (if I recall the terminology right). In that case, the address (again, if my memory serves me right) ::ffff:a.b.c.d is returned and the kernel can automatically decide that thta is a mapped address and put the packets to the ipv4 stack on the system (with address a.b.c.d) all transparent to the end user. It seems the WIDE stack can not do this (at least not now). They have something called 'faith' which supposedly handles this from userland but I think this should be handled in the kernel. I think handling this transparently is a key issue in the ipv4->v6 migrattion. Does anyone know: 1) If WIDE will deal with this in a later stadium? 2) What the INRIA stack does? -Guido To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 10:12:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA03218 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:12:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gvr.gvr.org (gvr.gvr.org [194.151.74.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA03213 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:12:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from guido@gvr.org) Received: (from guido@localhost) by gvr.gvr.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) id TAA28088; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:12:10 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981203191210.B28037@gvr.org> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:12:10 +0100 From: Guido van Rooij To: Andreas Klemm , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Eivind Eklund , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? References: <19981203002629.A26879@klemm.gtn.com> <9834.912642230@zippy.cdrom.com> <19981203085302.B1209@klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19981203085302.B1209@klemm.gtn.com>; from Andreas Klemm on Thu, Dec 03, 1998 at 08:53:02AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Fully agreed. Fortunately KAME is available for -current as well. Where did you find that? I only saw 2.2.7 stacks. -Guido To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 11:31:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA12090 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:31:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.gtn.com (mail.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA12083 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:31:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mail.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id UAA26842; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:30:07 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA15163; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:16:09 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19981203201608.A14870@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:16:08 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: Guido van Rooij , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Eivind Eklund , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? References: <19981203002629.A26879@klemm.gtn.com> <9834.912642230@zippy.cdrom.com> <19981203085302.B1209@klemm.gtn.com> <19981203191210.B28037@gvr.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19981203191210.B28037@gvr.org>; from Guido van Rooij on Thu, Dec 03, 1998 at 07:12:10PM +0100 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Dec 03, 1998 at 07:12:10PM +0100, Guido van Rooij wrote: > > Fully agreed. Fortunately KAME is available for -current as well. > > Where did you find that? I only saw 2.2.7 stacks. Sh.., you're right, I browsed too quickly over the paragraph yesterday evening. It's only available for 2.2.7, and therefor Jordan pointed out, that this is a real disadvantage for 3.0, which is the future... But from the Webserver: We have chosen 2.2.x-RELEASE because: - it is excellent for daily use. - well-maintained "ports" tree helps us modify applications to support IPv6. - and 3.0-current is too hard to track if we maintain cvs repository ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ separately. ^^^^^^^^^^ What does that mean ? And if not ?? If they would / could commit their developement to the -current tree and merge stable stuff to RELENG_2_2 ?! -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas What gives you 90% more speed, for example, in kernel compilation ? http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html "NT = Not Today" (Maggie Biggs) ``powered by FreeBSD SMP'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 12:03:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA15179 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:03:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA15121; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:02:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shmit@natasya.noc.erols.net) Received: from natasya.noc.erols.net (natasya.noc.erols.net [207.172.25.236]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA26915; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:01:43 -0500 (EST) Received: (from shmit@localhost) by natasya.noc.erols.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA28485; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:01:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19981203150137.D26279@kublai.com> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:01:37 -0500 From: Brian Cully To: Doug Rabson , Kazutaka YOKOTA Cc: Nick Hibma , sos@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: major/minor numbers Reply-To: shmit@kublai.com References: <199812030411.NAA27727@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Doug Rabson on Thu, Dec 03, 1998 at 10:20:52AM +0000 X-Sender: If your mailer pays attention to this, it's broken. X-PGP-Info: finger shmit@kublai.com for my public key. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Dec 03, 1998 at 10:20:52AM +0000, Doug Rabson wrote: > Can we take this as an opportunity to move syscons out of sys/i386/isa and > share the code between i386 and alpha (and any other pci based > architectures which might appear). We can do this now if we segregate the > device probe and attach methods and make sure that all accesses to video > ram are wrapped up in macros. Has anybody looked at NetBSD's wscons? I believe it already has support for multiple mice and keyboards, it's already cross-platform, and it supports the USB devices. -- Brian Cully Macintosh -- we might not get everything right, but at least we knew the century was going to end. -- Douglas Adams, on the Y2K problem. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 12:28:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17413 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:28:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17396; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:28:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA63909; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:28:11 GMT Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:28:11 +0000 (GMT) From: Doug Rabson To: Brian Cully cc: Kazutaka YOKOTA , Nick Hibma , sos@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: major/minor numbers In-Reply-To: <19981203150137.D26279@kublai.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, Brian Cully wrote: > On Thu, Dec 03, 1998 at 10:20:52AM +0000, Doug Rabson wrote: > > Can we take this as an opportunity to move syscons out of sys/i386/isa and > > share the code between i386 and alpha (and any other pci based > > architectures which might appear). We can do this now if we segregate the > > device probe and attach methods and make sure that all accesses to video > > ram are wrapped up in macros. > > Has anybody looked at NetBSD's wscons? I believe it already has support > for multiple mice and keyboards, it's already cross-platform, and it > supports the USB devices. I looked at it for a while but I preferred syscons' terminal emulation. Also syscons just felt faster for some reason (comparing NetBSD/alpha with wscons to FreeBSD/alpha with syscons). I haven't looked at nwscons at all. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 13:07:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA23473 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:07:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA23468 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:07:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25089; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:07:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd025057; Thu Dec 3 14:07:27 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA10818; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:07:07 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199812032107.OAA10818@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: TCP bug To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:07:07 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dillon@apollo.backplane.com, nate@mt.sri.com, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199812012155.OAA01489@mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Dec 1, 98 02:55:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > For example, if I have two interfaces and I telnet out, FreeBSD might > > not use the outgoing interface's IP address for the local address and > > instead might use the other interface's IP address. > > This is not the case here, because the machine who's packets are getting > whacked has only one interface (the internel ethernet device). How do you configure a machine without lo0? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 13:10:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA23977 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:10:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA23781 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:10:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA06406; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:09:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA15370; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:09:33 -0700 Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:09:33 -0700 Message-Id: <199812032109.OAA15370@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Terry Lambert Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), dillon@apollo.backplane.com, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TCP bug In-Reply-To: <199812032107.OAA10818@usr09.primenet.com> References: <199812012155.OAA01489@mt.sri.com> <199812032107.OAA10818@usr09.primenet.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > For example, if I have two interfaces and I telnet out, FreeBSD might > > > not use the outgoing interface's IP address for the local address and > > > instead might use the other interface's IP address. > > > > This is not the case here, because the machine who's packets are getting > > whacked has only one interface (the internel ethernet device). > > How do you configure a machine without lo0? It's kind of hard to telnet out over localhost. *Think about the context before responding Terry* Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 13:27:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA26709 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:27:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA26704 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:27:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA05072; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:27:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd004973; Thu Dec 3 14:27:09 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA11657; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:27:01 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199812032127.OAA11657@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: TCP bug To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:27:00 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, nate@mt.sri.com, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199812032109.OAA15370@mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Dec 3, 98 02:09:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > This is not the case here, because the machine who's packets are getting > > > whacked has only one interface (the internel ethernet device). > > > > How do you configure a machine without lo0? > > It's kind of hard to telnet out over localhost. > > *Think about the context before responding Terry* Apparently, I need to be more explicit... "How do you configure a machine without lo0? ;-)" Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 13:37:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA27515 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:37:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA27506; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:37:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA06943; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:36:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd006803; Thu Dec 3 14:36:39 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA12033; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:36:31 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199812032136.OAA12033@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Thread locking (was Re: cvs commit: src/include pthread.h src/lib/libc_r/uthread uthread_mattr_kind_np.c uthread_mutex.c) To: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:36:31 +0000 (GMT) Cc: eischen@vigrid.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jb@FreeBSD.ORG, lists@tar.com In-Reply-To: <19981129161418.W9226@follo.net> from "Eivind Eklund" at Nov 29, 98 04:14:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > The threads library is not fully POSIX compliant yet and has to > > change if it wants to achieve that. POSIX says that we return > > EDEADLK if we detect this condition (which we can and already do). > > Do we care more about backwards compatibility or more about POSIX > > compliance? I vote for strong and strict POSIX compliance (if my > > vote counts at all ;-). > > I'm in two minds about it. I don't like breaking compatibility, and I > don't like not being conformant, and it really comes down to each > individual case. The behaviour we have now seems to be conformant to > SS2, at least, which IMO is more important than POSIX. I'm not the > maintainer, anyway, so I don't consider it within my authority to > break backwards compatibility. I would really prefer that compliance tags were placed on code in the source tree. Specifically, a pthreads that is Draft 4 complinat is a hell of a lot more useful to me than a pthreads that is "almost" Draft 10 (standard) compliant. As far as breaking compatability, nothing breaks more code than making a release that's in some twilight zone between two levels of standards compliance. I think POSIX, in general, and the O'Reilly book, in specific, are the most important rulers. Code that doesn't conform to those documents will need to be changed in any case. The only rendesvous point that independent developement efforts like Linux, FreeBSD, and Solaris have in common is the published standards, for better or for worse. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 13:50:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA28782 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:50:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA28777 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:50:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id NAA17730; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:45:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com( 207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V2.0) id xma017724; Thu, 3 Dec 98 13:45:17 -0800 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA14072; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:45:15 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199812032145.NAA14072@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: TCP bug In-Reply-To: <199812030736.IAA06479@borg.kryptokom.de> from Reinier Bezuidenhout at "Dec 3, 98 08:36:56 am" To: Reinier.Bezuidenhout@KryptoKom.DE (Reinier Bezuidenhout) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:45:15 -0800 (PST) Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, ru@ucb.crimea.ua, rivers@dignus.com, eischen@vigrid.com, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Reinier Bezuidenhout writes: > I've missed some of the discussion, so if this is totally in the wrong > direction .. :) > > We had a similar problem once when we had a 2.2.6 version of FreeBSD > running and a ppp line connection and from there a ethernet going > out to an ISP. The symptoms were that some sites on the internet would be > reachable and others not. (We had ipfw running on the FreeBSD machine). > > After adding a "deny log all from any to any" just before the default > rule, we saw that fragmented packets were alse being tested against > the firewall rules would thus fail because of weird port numbers. > > We changed the MTU on the ppp line ( mmmm now I'm not sure if it was > ppp or slip :/ ) to 1500 and then everything worked fine. > > I seem to remember a commit for ipfw that fixed this problem but > I'm not sure. Yes, ipfw used to try to match port numbers and TCP flags against fragments. This bug was fixed in 2.2.6. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 13:55:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA29529 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:55:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA29522; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:55:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA15552; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:54:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd015461; Thu Dec 3 14:54:48 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA12692; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:54:39 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199812032154.OAA12692@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Thread locking (was Re: cvs commit: src/include pthread.h src/lib/libc_r/uthread uthread_mattr_kind_np.c uthread_mutex.c) To: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:54:39 +0000 (GMT) Cc: eischen@vigrid.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jb@FreeBSD.ORG, lists@tar.com In-Reply-To: <19981129210047.Z9226@follo.net> from "Eivind Eklund" at Nov 29, 98 09:00:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > What does the P in Pthreads mean? > > Phenomenally stupid. Any standard that include locking and doesn't > allow definition of recursive locks fall within this category. You can implement recursive locks rather trivially; you protect modification of the lock list and the structures with non-recursive locks, however. Recursive lock programming implies stack state relationship cycles, so as far as I'm concerned, it's no great loss if the code has to be written with the knowledge of the calls it has already made, instead of investing that knowledge in the stack. Effectively, recursive locking is a crutch for programmers that don't know how to perform correct systems analysis and functional decomposition of programming problems. That's why WIN32 threads support both semaphore (recursive) and mutex (nonrecursive) lock types; WIN32 has a lot of those people programming against it. The UNIX style file lock coelescence is one of the most brain damaged attempts to save kernel memory ever attempted by man, since it is, in effect, a shadow of an hosted OS server (like SAMBA, CAP, NWU, etc.). > No - it is AFAIK a superset of the POSIX standard. It also require > that if we detect the deadlock condition we should return EDEADLK - > but we don't detect the case. Allowing a lock to be "re-aquired" by > the same thread just falls out of the code. Careful. Kernel threads requires changes to support this, since the pid between threads in the current implementation is not the same, whereas in a real implementation it should be. So there are other deadlocks that can bite you. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 14:38:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA06784 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:38:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from reliam.teaser.fr (reliam.teaser.fr [194.51.80.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA06777 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:38:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from son@teaser.fr) Received: from teaser.fr (ppp1087-ft.teaser.fr [194.206.156.40]) by reliam.teaser.fr (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA17626; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:37:53 +0100 (MET) Received: (from son@localhost) by teaser.fr (8.9.1/8.8.5) id XAA01017; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 23:09:14 GMT Message-ID: <19981202230913.06625@breizh.prism.uvsq.fr> Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 23:09:13 +0000 From: Nicolas Souchu To: Scott Honey Cc: Mike Smith , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vpo0 driver not displaying or functioning correctly References: <199812020446.UAA02650@dingo.cdrom.com> <3664D3B1.775483A8@symmetricsolutions.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <3664D3B1.775483A8@symmetricsolutions.com>; from Scott Honey on Tue, Dec 01, 1998 at 11:44:17PM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD breizh 3.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT X-Mutt-References: <3664D3B1.775483A8@symmetricsolutions.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Dec 01, 1998 at 11:44:17PM -0600, Scott Honey wrote: >Mike Smith wrote: > >> > The README document for ppbus and LINT configuration file don't >> > tell youto rem out these devices and also doesn't tell you to remove the >> > disable. >> >> It doesn't tell you to remove the other devices because you don't have >> to. It doesn't tell you to remove the 'disable' because it's assumed >> that anyone actually paying attention will have noticed it already. > >If you can get it to work without disabling the other devices I would liketo >see it. Because without disabling the other devices you get these messages >when you boot: First of all, have you a more verbose boot dump? Use -v at boot prompt. > >Dec 1 20:21:04 synth /kernel: ppc: parallel port found at 0x378 >Dec 1 20:21:04 synth /kernel: ppc0 at 0x378 irq 7 on isa >Dec 1 20:21:04 synth /kernel: ppc0: SMC >Dec 1 20:21:04 synth /kernel: FDC37C665GT chipset (EPP/PS2/NIBBLE) in >COMPATIBLE mode >Dec 1 20:21:04 synth /kernel: nlpt0: on ppbus 0 >Dec 1 20:21:04 synth /kernel: nlpt0: Interrupt-driven port >Dec 1 20:21:04 synth /kernel: ppi0: on ppbus 0 >Dec 1 20:21:04 synth /kernel: lppps0: >on ppbus 0 >Dec 1 20:21:04 synth /kernel: plip0: on ppbus 0 > >It doesn't even say that the vpo driver is loading and when you try to mount >the scsi device (sd0) it tells you that the Device is not configured. The >ppbus does not detected the zip drive or If it does detect it, it doesn't True. >configure any devices nodes for it. When I remove the other 4 devices and >leave just the controllers and no devices for ppbus the boot messages are as >follows: After cold or warm boot, both? > >Dec 1 20:29:34 synth /kernel: ppc: parallel port found at 0x378 >Dec 1 20:29:34 synth /kernel: ppc0 at 0x378 irq 7 on isa >Dec 1 20:29:34 synth /kernel: ppc0: SMC >Dec 1 20:29:34 synth /kernel: FDC37C665GT chipset (EPP/PS2/NIBBLE) in >COMPATIBLE mode >Dec 1 20:29:34 synth /kernel: vpo0: interface> on ppbus 0 >Dec 1 20:29:34 synth /kernel: vpo0: EPP 1.9 mode Hug?! This is the first time I hear about this: disabling the other devices makes the vpo device detected. Anyway, it does not work properly (as you noticed it :) since there is not scsi log saying da0 is probed, connected... You may try to set ppc boot(8) flags to 0x1 then 0x3, forcing mode to NIBBLE and PS2. Please, send us verbose info. Of course, the best would be to run EPP. > >Wow, its finally being detected, gee if the ppbus is suppose to detected the >Zip drive with all the other >devices configured, than why doesn't it want to work. Either give me a >logical reason why its not >working in my case or check it out for yourself. Do you even have a parallel >zip drive? We do, and it's the first time your problem is reported, so we do the best. > >One other thing: People come to these mailing lists to get help, not a >attitude when we do something wrong. People come to these mailing lists to share experience, ideas and help developers to fix bugs. Thanks for your contribution ;) > >---------------------------------------------------------------- >Scott Honey >CEO of Symmetric Solutions, Inc >MCSE and Computer Programmer >shoney@symmetricsolutions.com >http://www.symmetricsolutions.com >---------------------------------------------------------------- Nicolas. -- nsouch@teaser.fr / nsouch@freebsd.org FreeBSD - Turning PCs into workstations - http://www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 14:47:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07645 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:47:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07638 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:47:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA05622; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:47:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd005476; Thu Dec 3 15:46:55 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA15343; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:46:41 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199812032246.PAA15343@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Upgrading 2.1.7.1 to stable with broken compiler To: roychri@total.net (Christian Roy) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 22:46:41 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199811301944.OAA19524@pablo.total.net> from "Christian Roy" at Nov 30, 98 02:31:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > This is my first post. I came here because FAQs, IRC, man pages and > friends couldn't help me much. > I do not have that much experience with freeBSD. This machine was used for > website statistic before but is no longer used. > There's some files in there that I would like to keep. I will back them up > but I would like to avoid installing from scratch (format) because I am not > in the same physical location as that machine. I am in canada and the > machine is in california. I do not want to ask the people that are there > because they charge too much. (And they do stupid mistakes). They are in > charge of the hosting and that's enough. When you use the 2.8.1 compiler, you get a different than the default path for the RTTI headers, the libgcc.a, and other various pieces of the compiler. Then when you compile something using the standard .mk templates, and you have DESTDIR set, the standard .mk templates will point the header and library paths *away* from the compiled in location, and *back* to the location of the default installed compiler. Needless to say, this will break code heinously. In general, I tend to hack my Makefiles to undo the .mk brain damage, which has yet to be corrected (mostly because the FreeBSD default compiler needs an upgrade, and there is controversy on whether to use EGCS or GNU 2.8.1 -- the source of which is the EGCS supporters never having tried to use a complex application with threads and exceptions, which doesn't work in EGCS unless you link all your programs against libc_r all the time, even if you nevere use threads). Here is an example of a hacked up Makefile for my C++ implementation of all of the java base classes: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ LIB=java CXX=g++28 CXXINCLUDES+= -frtti \ -I/usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/i386-unknown-freebsd2.2.5/2.8.1/include CC=gcc28 CDEBUGFLAGS= -ggdb CXXFLAGS+= ${CDEBUGFLAGS} -I../../include NOMAN= yes .include "${.CURDIR}/Makefile.inc" all: cp lib${LIB}.a ../../lib/lib${LIB}.a .include ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The magic is in the CXXINCLUDES line, which re-overrides the include path. See bsd.prog.mk and bsd,lib.mk for a detailed understanding of the .mk file brain damage that causes the problem with the non-default compiler. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 14:55:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA08714 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:55:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA08708 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:55:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08729; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:55:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd008673; Thu Dec 3 15:54:39 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA15751; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:54:35 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199812032254.PAA15751@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Year 2k and PC hardware To: jbryant@unix.tfs.net Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 22:54:35 +0000 (GMT) Cc: robert+freebsd@cyrus.watson.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199812030622.AAA22863@unix.tfs.net> from "Jim Bryant" at Dec 3, 98 00:22:09 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > well, i see sept 1st as the point of no return... what is the first > problem date, 9/9/99? This one is urban legend. While the "all nines" stop is a time honored tradition in COBOL, both the day and the month field are two digits, not one digit, and therefore the stop is 99/99/99, which will never happen, not " 9/ 9/99". This is what you get when you get journalists who look into common shortcuts used by programmers, yet don't really have an understanding of the implemetation details of those same shortcuts, or the human practice of not printing leading zeros. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 17:51:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA02274 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 17:51:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from coconut.itojun.org (coconut.itojun.org [210.160.95.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA02269 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 17:51:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from itojun@itojun.org) Received: from kiwi.itojun.org (itojun@localhost.itojun.org [127.0.0.1]) by coconut.itojun.org (8.9.1+3.1W/3.7W) with ESMTP id KAA27225; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 10:50:48 +0900 (JST) To: "Open Systems Inc." cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Eivind Eklund , "Jordan K. Hubbard" In-reply-to: opsys's message of Wed, 02 Dec 1998 18:33:01 CST. X-Template-Reply-To: itojun@itojun.org X-Template-Return-Receipt-To: itojun@itojun.org X-PGP-Fingerprint: F8 24 B4 2C 8C 98 57 FD 90 5F B4 60 79 54 16 E2 Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? From: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 10:50:48 +0900 Message-ID: <27221.912736248@coconut.itojun.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >I think the point thats been made about WHO is going to maintain this code >should as well be taken into consideration. >KAME promises to maintain it upto and until the project ends in 2000. >Then what? Are any KAME folks commiters? If so are those committers >willing to say they will maintain the code after 2K? Notes about the above: "Project ends in 2K" is a initial plan (the project is started as 2-year project. Core workers are really like the KAME project's goals and environment, and would like to continue doing this work. It depends on: - success/failure of newer protocols such as IPv6/IPsec. - how people who write paychecks to core workers thinks. I believe the former item is okay:-) and the latter item should be solved in 1999. Anyway, even if the project ends, I certainly will maintain KAME tree (KAME was maintained in my home last year) and I'm a FreeBSD committer. itojun@itojun.org jun-ichiro itoh To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 18:04:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA03640 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 18:04:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from coconut.itojun.org (coconut.itojun.org [210.160.95.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA03627 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 18:04:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from itojun@itojun.org) Received: from kiwi.itojun.org (itojun@localhost.itojun.org [127.0.0.1]) by coconut.itojun.org (8.9.1+3.1W/3.7W/smtpfeed 0.89) with ESMTP id LAA27372; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:04:12 +0900 (JST) To: Andreas Klemm cc: Guido van Rooij , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Eivind Eklund , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: shin@kame.net In-reply-to: andreas's message of Thu, 03 Dec 1998 20:16:08 +0100. <19981203201608.A14870@klemm.gtn.com> X-Template-Reply-To: itojun@itojun.org X-Template-Return-Receipt-To: itojun@itojun.org X-PGP-Fingerprint: F8 24 B4 2C 8C 98 57 FD 90 5F B4 60 79 54 16 E2 Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? From: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 11:04:11 +0900 Message-ID: <27368.912737051@coconut.itojun.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >It's only available for 2.2.7, and therefor Jordan pointed out, >that this is a real disadvantage for 3.0, which is the future... We are doing KAME on 3.0. Shin (cc'ed) has more to say about this. Basically, the last item left is TCP integration to IPv6. There has been big changes in netinet tree between 2.2.x to 3.0 so we have to modify from scratch. >But from the Webserver: >We have chosen 2.2.x-RELEASE because: >- it is excellent for daily use. >- well-maintained "ports" tree helps us modify applications to support IPv6. >- and 3.0-current is too hard to track if we maintain cvs repository > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > separately. > ^^^^^^^^^^ >What does that mean ? And if not ?? If they would / could commit their >developement to the -current tree and merge stable stuff to RELENG_2_2 ?! The above means: - we can't keep track of all 3.0-current changes during our developement. we have separate repository for all of our work. it is too much work to do and we need a something like RELEASE snapshot. - there has been no RELEASE in 3.0 for us to start with. Now we have 3.0-RELEASE and we are doing KAME on 3.0-RELEASE. When the merge to FreeBSD repository happens, we may have to maintain two repositories (at FreeBSD and at KAME). To decrease repository maintainance cost, we may have to do either of the following: - all KAME guys must become committer, use FreeBSD repository for all KAME/FreeBSD 3.0 developments - KAME guys should copy changes back and forth every day - KAME guys will import and merge in new KAME into 3.0 repository, every time KAME makes a new bi-monthly snapshot. Important fixes/changes are synced right away. There are too many volatile things in IPv6 and IPsec, and I think the last item is the most workable solution. itojun To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 18:05:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA03738 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 18:05:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA03730 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 18:05:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA02287; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 18:07:09 -0800 (PST) To: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh cc: "Open Systems Inc." , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Eivind Eklund Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 04 Dec 1998 10:50:48 +0900." <27221.912736248@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 18:07:08 -0800 Message-ID: <2283.912737228@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Anyway, even if the project ends, I certainly will maintain KAME tree > (KAME was maintained in my home last year) and I'm a FreeBSD committer. OK, well, here's the $10,000 question (as we say in the U.S.): Assuming that a decision was made to just go with the KAME code (and I'm not implying that it has been), how soon could this code enter -current and how soon, in your opinion, would it be before it was integrated well enough to be fully functional? I'm thinking this might be a perfect post-branch activity (IPv6 would be a 3.1 feature) which means that any time after mid-January would be a good time. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 18:11:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA04363 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 18:11:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from coconut.itojun.org (coconut.itojun.org [210.160.95.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA04354 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 18:11:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from itojun@itojun.org) Received: from kiwi.itojun.org (itojun@localhost.itojun.org [127.0.0.1]) by coconut.itojun.org (8.9.1+3.1W/3.7W/smtpfeed 0.89) with ESMTP id LAA27491; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:10:52 +0900 (JST) To: Guido van Rooij cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Andreas Klemm , Eivind Eklund , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: guido's message of Thu, 03 Dec 1998 19:10:01 +0100. <19981203191001.A28037@gvr.org> X-Template-Reply-To: itojun@itojun.org X-Template-Return-Receipt-To: itojun@itojun.org X-PGP-Fingerprint: F8 24 B4 2C 8C 98 57 FD 90 5F B4 60 79 54 16 E2 Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? From: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 11:10:51 +0900 Message-ID: <27487.912737451@coconut.itojun.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >As an end user on a IPV6 system, when I do telnet foo.bar.org, >the resolver will try if there exist an AAAA record for that host and >talk IPV6 directly. When no such record is available, it will return >an IPV6 mapped address (if I recall the terminology right). In that case, >the address (again, if my memory serves me right) >::ffff:a.b.c.d is returned and the kernel can automatically decide that >thta is a mapped address and put the packets to the ipv4 stack on the system >(with address a.b.c.d) all transparent to the end user. > >It seems the WIDE stack can not do this (at least not now). They >have something called 'faith' which supposedly handles this from >userland but I think this should be handled in the kernel. > >I think handling this transparently is a key issue in the ipv4->v6 migrattion. I believe it is not. The key point is, applications must be updated to be protocol family independent. They should use getaddrinfo() instead of gethostbyname2(). >Does anyone know: >1) If WIDE will deal with this in a later stadium? >2) What the INRIA stack does? I don't remember correctly (as I don't use mapped address frequently), but if you have KAME on FreeBSD 2.2.7, some code should come with the kit. There should be environment variable or flag in _res structure for controlling resolver's behavior. One thing we don't implement intentionally is automatic tunnelling (packets to ::10.1.1.1 automatically tunnelled over IPv6-over-IPv4 tunnel to 10.1.1.1). itojun To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 18:37:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA06610 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 18:37:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA06605 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 18:37:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA02418; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 18:38:06 -0800 (PST) To: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh cc: Andreas Klemm , Guido van Rooij , Eivind Eklund , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, shin@kame.net Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 04 Dec 1998 11:04:11 +0900." <27368.912737051@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 18:38:05 -0800 Message-ID: <2414.912739085@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > - KAME guys will import and merge in new KAME into 3.0 repository, > every time KAME makes a new bi-monthly snapshot. Important > fixes/changes are synced right away. Sounds like you just need to maintain things on a vendor branch and periodically merge, yes. We'd also be happy to give commit privs to some number of KAME folks so that the merging process didn't necessarily have to fall on one person (you) :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 19:03:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA09336 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:03:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from awfulhak.org (awfulhak.force9.co.uk [195.166.136.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA09329 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:03:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from dev.lan.awfulhak.org (dev.lan.awfulhak.org [172.16.0.5]) by awfulhak.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA06440; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 00:36:56 GMT (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from dev.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dev.lan.awfulhak.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA38046; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 00:36:55 GMT (envelope-from brian@dev.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199812040036.AAA38046@dev.lan.awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Amancio Hasty cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: dhcpd + ppp setup? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Dec 1998 14:52:54 PST." <199812012252.OAA19705@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 00:36:55 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hi, > > Does anyone have a pointer to how to setup dhcpd with ppp ? If you mean dynamic address assignment, you can just set ifaddr 10.0.0.1 10.0.0.10-10.0.0.250 in user-ppp. > Tnks, > Amancio -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 19:06:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA09802 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:06:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from paradise.v6.kame.net (kame202.kame.net [203.178.141.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA09669 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:05:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shin@nd.net.fujitsu.co.jp) Received: from localhost ([3ffe:501:4819:2000:220:d8ff:fe00:6f20]) by paradise.v6.kame.net (8.9.1a+IPv6/3.6W-IPv6/IPv4) with ESMTP id MAA21222; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:05:21 +0900 (JST) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: andreas@klemm.gtn.com, guido@gvr.org, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, eivind@yes.no, itojun@iijlab.net Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 04 Dec 1998 11:04:11 +0900" <27368.912737051@coconut.itojun.org> References: <27368.912737051@coconut.itojun.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.93b38 on Emacs 19.28 / Mule 2.3 (SUETSUMUHANA) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19981204120342M.shin@nd.net.fujitsu.co.jp> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 12:03:42 +0900 From: Yoshinobu Inoue (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCMGY+ZU5JPy4bKEI=?=) X-Dispatcher: imput version 980905(IM100) Lines: 24 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >It's only available for 2.2.7, and therefor Jordan pointed out, > >that this is a real disadvantage for 3.0, which is the future... > We are doing KAME on 3.0. Shin (cc'ed) has more to say about this. > Basically, the last item left is TCP integration to IPv6. There > has been big changes in netinet tree between 2.2.x to 3.0 so we > have to modify from scratch. Also, we are going to share PCB lists of IPv6 and IPv4 in KAME for 3.0. (they are separated in KAME 2.2.x) Followings are finished items in my KAME for 3.0 work. -IPSEC -basic IPv6 communication (including address auto configuration) -system tools (ifconfig, route, netstat, etc) -RAW socket over IPv6 socket (and user-land applications using it) -UDP socket over IPv6 socket (and some user-land applications using it) Now I am working on TCP merging. Transport layers are not merged in KAME for 2.2.x, so it takes time, but I think I can finish it in 2 weeks optimisticly, and in this year at longest. Yoshinobu Inoue shin@kame.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 19:10:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA10374 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:10:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (sj-dsl-9-129-138.dspeed.net [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA10364 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:10:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA48902; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:09:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199812040309.TAA48902@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Brian Somers cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: dhcpd + ppp setup? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 04 Dec 1998 00:36:55 GMT." <199812040036.AAA38046@dev.lan.awfulhak.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 19:09:59 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Hi, > > > > Does anyone have a pointer to how to setup dhcpd with ppp ? > > If you mean dynamic address assignment, you can just Yes, I meant that . Tnks! Amancio > set ifaddr 10.0.0.1 10.0.0.10-10.0.0.250 > > in user-ppp. > > > Tnks, > > Amancio > > -- > Brian , , > > Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 20:54:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA19247 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:54:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA19242 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:54:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA09862; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:24:27 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id PAA29053; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:24:03 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981204152402.O441@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:24:02 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Nick Hibma , FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: major/minor numbers References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Nick Hibma on Tue, Dec 01, 1998 at 02:30:04PM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tuesday, 1 December 1998 at 14:30:04 +0100, Nick Hibma wrote: > > For USB support I need at least 1 but possible 3 or more major numbers. > > usb0 > > and possibly > > ums0 > ulpt0 > ucuaa0 (maybe) > > Brian Feldman came up with the idea to use major numbers together with > other drivers, for example have ums use the numbers that also psm uses > (their both PS/2 mice). Anyone tried this? Sounds a bit odd if you do > not want to divide minor number space amongst them statically. This would be a kludge, and would create something like Siamese twins, but it could be done. There are enough minor numbers to go around. You'd have to create some kind of dispatcher which decided on the driver based on the minor number. > Second question is: How many minor numbers can be stuck onto a major > number? 16, 256, 1024, 2^16, 2^32 ? 2^24. The BSD major/minor number is an outgrowth of the old Seventh Edition minor number, which had 8 bits major followed by 8 bits minor. BSD has put another 16 bits minor in front, so the minor mask is 0xffff00ff. By contrast, System V split to 14 bits major followed by 18 bits minor. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 21:07:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA19968 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:07:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from beatrice.rutgers.edu (beatrice.rutgers.edu [165.230.209.143]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA19959 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:07:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from easmith@beatrice.rutgers.edu) Received: (from easmith@localhost) by beatrice.rutgers.edu (980427.SGI.8.8.8/970903.SGI.AUTOCF) id XAA06455; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:54:46 -0500 (EST) From: "Allen Smith" Message-Id: <9812032354.ZM6453@beatrice.rutgers.edu> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:54:46 -0500 In-Reply-To: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh "Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec?" (Dec 3, 9:13pm) References: <27487.912737451@coconut.itojun.org> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Andreas Klemm , Eivind Eklund , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I believe IPsec just ran into a larger problem... parts excerpted for fair use. The Wassenaar countries include the home countries of all the IPsec participants, so far as I know. [1]Yahoo! News-[2][IMAGE] [3]Home - [4]Yahoo! - [5]Help _____________________________________ [6]Wired-[7][IMAGE] [8][Wired Networks]-[9][IMAGE] Yahoo! News Technology Headlines Thursday December 3 3:03 PM ET U.S. wins global tech export limits WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Clinton administration officials Thursday said they had convinced other leading countries to impose strict new export controls on computer data scrambling products under the guise of arms control. At a meeting on Thursday in Vienna, the 33 countries that have signed the Wassenaar Arrangement limiting arms exports-including Japan, Germany and Britain-agreed to impose controls on the most powerful data scrambling technologies, including for the first time mass market software, U.S. special envoy for cryptography David Aaron told Reuters. The United States, which restricts exports of a wide range of data scrambling products, has long sought without success to convince other countries to impose similar restrictions. [...] Aaron said the Wassenaar countries agreed to continue export controls on powerful scrambling, or encryption, products in general but ended an exemption for widely available software containing encryption. The new policy also reduced reporting and paperwork requirements and specifically excluded from export controls products that used encryption to protect intellectual property, like movies or recordings sent over the Internet, from illegal copying, Aaron said. (Reuters/Wired) -- Allen Smith easmith@beatrice.rutgers.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 21:55:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA23496 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:55:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA23491 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:55:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA00689; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:56:53 -0800 (PST) To: "Allen Smith" cc: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh , Andreas Klemm , Eivind Eklund , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 03 Dec 1998 23:54:46 EST." <9812032354.ZM6453@beatrice.rutgers.edu> Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 21:56:52 -0800 Message-ID: <685.912751012@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I believe IPsec just ran into a larger problem... parts excerpted for > fair use. The Wassenaar countries include the home countries of all > the IPsec participants, so far as I know. I think it's too early to say. Let's just get the technology in place and worry about the export issues, whatever form they may have that month, later. If we do it the other way around, we'll never get to the point where we have any technology worth exporting in any case and the entire point will be somewhat moot. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 22:47:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA27810 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 22:47:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lab321.ru (anonymous1.omsk.net.ru [62.76.128.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA27798 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 22:47:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kev@lab321.ru) Received: from www.lab321.ru (kev@www.lab321.ru [62.76.129.65]) by lab321.ru (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id MAA15353 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:46:47 +0600 (OS) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:46:46 +0600 (OS) From: Eugeny Kuzakov To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: My 2.2.8 panics! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi ! I have freebsd sources cvsuped at 30-Nov-1998. When I tryed to boot kernel, compiled with -g, I received the message: "bounce memory out of range" and then system rebooted. Why ? I compiled kernel w/o debugging information with the same kernel config. Last night this kernel traped. I saved them core dump. The debug information is below: gdb -k GDB is free software and you are welcome to distribute copies of it under certain conditions; type "show copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB; type "show warranty" for details. GDB 4.16 (i386-unknown-freebsd), Copyright 1996 Free Software Foundation, Inc. (kgdb) symbol-file kernel Reading symbols from kernel...done. (kgdb) exec-file /var/crash/kernel.0 (kgdb) core-file /var/crash/vmcore.0 IdlePTD 2c5000 current pcb at 24f8b8 panic: blkfree: freeing free frag #0 boot (howto=256) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:266 266 dumppcb.pcb_cr3 = rcr3(); (kgdb) where #0 boot (howto=256) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:266 #1 0xf01199f3 in panic (fmt=0xf01cc821 "blkfree: freeing free frag") at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:400 #2 0xf01ccc4c in ffs_blkfree (ip=0xf49fc900, bno=14782, size=1024) at ../../ufs/ffs/ffs_alloc.c:1255 #3 0xf01ce9a3 in ffs_truncate (ap=0xefbffe74) at ../../ufs/ffs/ffs_inode.c:343 #4 0xf01d23f5 in ufs_inactive (ap=0xefbffea0) at vnode_if.h:1003 #5 0xf01392b7 in vrele (vp=0xf466de80) at vnode_if.h:699 #6 0xf01391ab in vput (vp=0xf466de80) at ../../kern/vfs_subr.c:858 #7 0xf01d5bd0 in ufs_remove (ap=0xefbffef4) at ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_vnops.c:697 #8 0xf013b539 in unlink (p=0xf4efaa00, uap=0xefbfff94, retval=0xefbfff84) at vnode_if.h:459 #9 0xf01f6e37 in syscall (frame={tf_es = 39, tf_ds = 39, tf_edi = 9707, tf_esi = -272639788, tf_ebp = -272639884, tf_isp = -272629788, tf_ebx = 1651904, tf_edx = 0, tf_ecx = 1642496, tf_eax = 10, tf_trapno = 151552, tf_err = 7, tf_eip = 537416161, tf_cs = 31, tf_eflags = 582, tf_esp = -272639996, tf_ss = 39}) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:920 #10 0x200851e1 in ?? () #11 0x2b17 in ?? () #12 0x3b7c in ?? () #13 0x1095 in ?? () (kgdb) up 10 #10 0x200851e1 in ?? () (kgdb) frame frame->tf_ebp frame->tf_eip No symbol "frame" in current context. (kgdb) list 261 } 262 } else { 263 if (howto & RB_DUMP) { 264 if (!cold) { 265 savectx(&dumppcb); 266 dumppcb.pcb_cr3 = rcr3(); 267 dumpsys(); 268 } 269 270 if (PANIC_REBOOT_WAIT_TIME != 0) { (kgdb) print tp No symbol "tp" in current context. (kgdb) up #11 0x2b17 in ?? () (kgdb) q NOTE: I tryed to inspect core dump of kernel, compiled w/o debug, but use symbol table from this kernel compiled with debug. I know that it not so correctly. I will try : 1. Compile kernel with -g 2. strip -d it kernel 3. boot this kernel 4. When it will trap, I will inspect it with kgdb again. Thanks for advices. This is production server and stable him work very critical. -- Best wishes, Eugeny Kuzakov Laboratory 321 ( Omsk, Russia ) kev@lab321.ru ICQ#: 5885106 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 23:04:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA28976 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:04:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lab321.ru (anonymous1.omsk.net.ru [62.76.128.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA28905 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:03:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kev@lab321.ru) Received: from www.lab321.ru (kev@www.lab321.ru [62.76.129.65]) by lab321.ru (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id NAA19252 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:03:25 +0600 (OS) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:03:25 +0600 (OS) From: Eugeny Kuzakov To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: My 2.2.8 panics! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Eugeny Kuzakov wrote: > > Hi ! > > I have freebsd sources cvsuped at 30-Nov-1998. Note: I uses one third party kernel patch - ipfilter 3.2.10 I am still thinking that 2.1.7.1-RELEASE is most stable and quality. :( -- Best wishes, Eugeny Kuzakov Laboratory 321 ( Omsk, Russia ) kev@lab321.ru ICQ#: 5885106 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 3 23:45:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA03390 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:45:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA03376; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:45:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA10355; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:15:03 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id SAA11683; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:14:26 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981204181412.A495@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:14:12 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Eugeny Kuzakov , FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: My 2.2.8 panics! References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Eugeny Kuzakov on Fri, Dec 04, 1998 at 12:46:46PM +0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Friday, 4 December 1998 at 12:46:46 +0600, Eugeny Kuzakov wrote: > > Hi ! > > I have freebsd sources cvsuped at 30-Nov-1998. > > When I tryed to boot kernel, compiled with -g, I received the > message: "bounce memory out of range" and then system rebooted. > Why ? How can we tell if you don't give the minimum information about the problem? At the very least we need to know your hardware setup (though we can assume an ISA SCSI controller and more than 16 MB of RAM). Anyway, this isn't a -hackers question, it's a -questions question, so I'm following up to -questions. > I compiled kernel w/o debugging information with the same kernel config. > Last night this kernel traped. I saved them core dump. > > The debug information is below: > gdb -k > GDB is free software and you are welcome to distribute copies of it > under certain conditions; type "show copying" to see the conditions. > There is absolutely no warranty for GDB; type "show warranty" for details. > GDB 4.16 (i386-unknown-freebsd), Copyright 1996 Free Software Foundation, > Inc. > (kgdb) symbol-file kernel > Reading symbols from kernel...done. > (kgdb) exec-file /var/crash/kernel.0 > (kgdb) core-file /var/crash/vmcore.0 > IdlePTD 2c5000 > current pcb at 24f8b8 > panic: blkfree: freeing free frag > #0 boot (howto=256) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:266 > 266 dumppcb.pcb_cr3 = rcr3(); > (kgdb) where > #0 boot (howto=256) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:266 > #1 0xf01199f3 in panic (fmt=0xf01cc821 "blkfree: freeing free frag") > at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:400 > #2 0xf01ccc4c in ffs_blkfree (ip=0xf49fc900, bno=14782, size=1024) > at ../../ufs/ffs/ffs_alloc.c:1255 > #3 0xf01ce9a3 in ffs_truncate (ap=0xefbffe74) at > ../../ufs/ffs/ffs_inode.c:343 > #4 0xf01d23f5 in ufs_inactive (ap=0xefbffea0) at vnode_if.h:1003 > #5 0xf01392b7 in vrele (vp=0xf466de80) at vnode_if.h:699 > #6 0xf01391ab in vput (vp=0xf466de80) at ../../kern/vfs_subr.c:858 > #7 0xf01d5bd0 in ufs_remove (ap=0xefbffef4) at > ../../ufs/ufs/ufs_vnops.c:697 > #8 0xf013b539 in unlink (p=0xf4efaa00, uap=0xefbfff94, retval=0xefbfff84) > at vnode_if.h:459 > #9 0xf01f6e37 in syscall (frame={tf_es = 39, tf_ds = 39, tf_edi = 9707, > tf_esi = -272639788, tf_ebp = -272639884, tf_isp = -272629788, > tf_ebx = 1651904, tf_edx = 0, tf_ecx = 1642496, tf_eax = 10, > tf_trapno = 151552, tf_err = 7, tf_eip = 537416161, tf_cs = 31, > tf_eflags = 582, tf_esp = -272639996, tf_ss = 39}) > at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:920 > #10 0x200851e1 in ?? () > #11 0x2b17 in ?? () > #12 0x3b7c in ?? () > #13 0x1095 in ?? () This shows a process unlinking the final link to a file, and discovering that the data being freed was already free. This can happen, for example, if you crash a system and bring it up without cleaning the file system. If this is repeatable, it would be helpful to know which file you were removing (with some difficulty you can find it in the dump). > (kgdb) up 10 > #10 0x200851e1 in ?? () > (kgdb) frame frame->tf_ebp frame->tf_eip > No symbol "frame" in current context. > (kgdb) list > 261 } > 262 } else { > 263 if (howto & RB_DUMP) { > 264 if (!cold) { > 265 savectx(&dumppcb); > 266 dumppcb.pcb_cr3 = rcr3(); > 267 dumpsys(); > 268 } > 269 > 270 if (PANIC_REBOOT_WAIT_TIME != 0) { > (kgdb) print tp > No symbol "tp" in current context. > (kgdb) up > #11 0x2b17 in ?? () > (kgdb) q I don't know what you were looking for here, but I can't see anything of any great advantage. What you need to know is which file you were deleting; possibly this will give you a better lead. > NOTE: I tryed to inspect core dump of kernel, compiled w/o debug, but use > symbol table from this kernel compiled with debug. > I know that it not so correctly. Assuming that it's the same source, it shouldn't make any difference. It looks to me as if your trace is close enough. > I will try : > 1. Compile kernel with -g > 2. strip -d it kernel > 3. boot this kernel > 4. When it will trap, I will inspect it with kgdb again. > > Thanks for advices. This is production server and stable him work very > critical. The first thing I would do would be to do an fsck on the file system on which the file was located. You can find that information in the vnode if you don't know already. After that, you may never see the problem again. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 03:28:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA19518 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 03:28:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA19503 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 03:27:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA23613; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:27:30 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id MAA28159; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:27:30 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981204122730.V18661@follo.net> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:27:30 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Allen Smith Cc: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh , Andreas Klemm , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? References: <9812032354.ZM6453@beatrice.rutgers.edu> <685.912751012@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <685.912751012@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Thu, Dec 03, 1998 at 09:56:52PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Dec 03, 1998 at 09:56:52PM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I believe IPsec just ran into a larger problem... parts excerpted for > > fair use. The Wassenaar countries include the home countries of all > > the IPsec participants, so far as I know. > > I think it's too early to say. Let's just get the technology in place > and worry about the export issues, whatever form they may have that > month, later. If we do it the other way around, we'll never get to > the point where we have any technology worth exporting in any case and > the entire point will be somewhat moot. Just to bring in another point: A group of people I'm part of just initiated contact with the Norwegian Foreign Ministry (export division) and got the new norwegian rules. They have a very interesting twist: They disallow export of anything with stronger than 56-bit crypto, but have a deliberate exception for 'software for general consumption', with a definition of 'software for general consumption' that seem to only fit Open Source (normal commercial software does _not_ fit it). Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 03:40:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA20468 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 03:40:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA20439 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 03:39:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA00580; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 03:40:58 -0800 (PST) To: Eivind Eklund cc: Allen Smith , Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh , Andreas Klemm , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 04 Dec 1998 12:27:30 +0100." <19981204122730.V18661@follo.net> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 03:40:57 -0800 Message-ID: <577.912771657@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Just to bring in another point: A group of people I'm part of just > initiated contact with the Norwegian Foreign Ministry (export > division) and got the new norwegian rules. They have a very > interesting twist: They disallow export of anything with stronger than > 56-bit crypto, but have a deliberate exception for 'software for > general consumption', with a definition of 'software for general > consumption' that seem to only fit Open Source (normal commercial > software does _not_ fit it). You know, in this day and age, there's no reason why I couldn't build the releases in Norway.. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 04:02:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA23217 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 04:02:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.oeno.com (ns.oeno.com [194.100.99.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA23167 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 04:02:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from will@ns.oeno.com) Received: (qmail 25450 invoked by uid 1001); 4 Dec 1998 12:02:22 -0000 To: eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? References: <9812032354.ZM6453@beatrice.rutgers.edu> <19981204122730.V18661@follo.net> From: Ville-Pertti Keinonen Date: 04 Dec 1998 14:02:18 +0200 In-Reply-To: eivind@yes.no's message of "4 Dec 1998 13:28:29 +0200" Message-ID: <8667bs6rp0.fsf@not.oeno.com> Lines: 17 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund) writes: > Just to bring in another point: A group of people I'm part of just > initiated contact with the Norwegian Foreign Ministry (export > division) and got the new norwegian rules. They have a very > interesting twist: They disallow export of anything with stronger than > 56-bit crypto, but have a deliberate exception for 'software for > general consumption', with a definition of 'software for general > consumption' that seem to only fit Open Source (normal commercial > software does _not_ fit it). The way I read it, the article seemed to imply that such exemptions shall be eliminated. Norway is a participant in the Wassenaar arrangement (since 1995, I believe) and is thus implicitly one of the countries who have agreed (yesterday) to what was discussed in the article. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 04:21:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA25464 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 04:21:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA25433 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 04:20:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA27863; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:06:08 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id NAA28279; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:06:07 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981204130607.W18661@follo.net> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:06:07 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Ville-Pertti Keinonen Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? References: <9812032354.ZM6453@beatrice.rutgers.edu> <19981204122730.V18661@follo.net> <8667bs6rp0.fsf@not.oeno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <8667bs6rp0.fsf@not.oeno.com>; from Ville-Pertti Keinonen on Fri, Dec 04, 1998 at 02:02:18PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Dec 04, 1998 at 02:02:18PM +0200, Ville-Pertti Keinonen wrote: > > eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund) writes: > > > Just to bring in another point: A group of people I'm part of just > > initiated contact with the Norwegian Foreign Ministry (export > > division) and got the new norwegian rules. They have a very > > interesting twist: They disallow export of anything with stronger than > > 56-bit crypto, but have a deliberate exception for 'software for > > general consumption', with a definition of 'software for general > > consumption' that seem to only fit Open Source (normal commercial > > software does _not_ fit it). > > The way I read it, the article seemed to imply that such exemptions > shall be eliminated. Norway is a participant in the Wassenaar > arrangement (since 1995, I believe) and is thus implicitly one of the > countries who have agreed (yesterday) to what was discussed in the > article. My description is of the NEW regulations. The ones being introduced after the Wassenaar changes yesterday. We talked to the exports commission this morning. Norway has not had any restrictions on crypto export before. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 04:34:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA26577 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 04:34:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from opi.flirtbox.ch ([62.48.0.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA26570 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 04:34:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from oppermann@pipeline.ch) Received: (qmail 23735 invoked from network); 4 Dec 1998 12:33:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pipeline.ch) (195.134.128.41) by opi.flirtbox.ch with SMTP; 4 Dec 1998 12:33:45 -0000 Message-ID: <3667D66F.B561157@pipeline.ch> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 13:32:47 +0100 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Allen Smith CC: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Andreas Klemm , Eivind Eklund , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? References: <27487.912737451@coconut.itojun.org> <9812032354.ZM6453@beatrice.rutgers.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Allen Smith wrote: > > I believe IPsec just ran into a larger problem... parts excerpted for > fair use. The Wassenaar countries include the home countries of all > the IPsec participants, so far as I know. AFAIK Switzerland is not among the Wassenaar countries and we don't have any Crypto regulations whatsoever... plus all plans to introduce some have been shut down quite early. If this would ever be an issue then I would be able to give bandwidth and rack space for a FreeBSD cryto repository box (like internat. freebsd.org today). -- Andre Oppermann CEO / Geschaeftsfuehrer Internet Business Solutions Ltd. (AG) Hardstrasse 235, 8005 Zurich, Switzerland Fon +41 1 277 75 75 / Fax +41 1 277 75 77 http://www.pipeline.ch ibs@pipeline.ch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 05:20:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA29465 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 05:20:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shale.csir.co.za (shale.csir.co.za [146.64.46.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA29419; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 05:19:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reg@shale.csir.co.za) Received: (from reg@localhost) by shale.csir.co.za (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA62901; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:19:23 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from reg) Message-ID: <19981204151923.A255@shale.csir.co.za> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:19:23 +0200 From: Jeremy Lea To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Crypto policy [was: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec?] References: <27487.912737451@coconut.itojun.org> <9812032354.ZM6453@beatrice.rutgers.edu> <3667D66F.B561157@pipeline.ch> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <3667D66F.B561157@pipeline.ch>; from Andre Oppermann on Fri, Dec 04, 1998 at 01:32:47PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, [redirected to -chat, bcc'd to -hackers] On Fri, Dec 04, 1998 at 01:32:47PM +0100, Andre Oppermann wrote: > Allen Smith wrote: > > > > I believe IPsec just ran into a larger problem... parts excerpted for > > fair use. The Wassenaar countries include the home countries of all > > the IPsec participants, so far as I know. > If this would ever be an issue then I would be able to give bandwidth > and rack space for a FreeBSD cryto repository box (like internat. > freebsd.org today). I doubt there will be problems with internat. South Africa is not part of this, and is not likely to be, considering our good diplomatic relations with China, Libya, Cuba and sometimes even Iraq. To the South African's on the list: Anyone have any ideas on the best way to get encryption enshrined as a constitutional right? Better to be proactive than reactive. I'm sure some argument about the need for individuals to protect themselves, to prevent an recurrence of the horrors of the past, would go some way. Also might be a good idea to begin fighting for making key escrow by foreign countries illegal. I don't want Verisign, or whoever, to ever be able to give my secret keys to the US government. Regards, -Jeremy -- | "Come home my prodigal son, come home and lets be one, --+-- don't want to see you cry, don't make me tell you why, | you've lived in a house with me, my blood has set you free, | in the world you'll surely die, nothing else will satisfy." -MIC To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 05:21:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA29668 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 05:21:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cesium.clock.org (cesium.clock.org [209.179.181.185]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA29663 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 05:21:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from smd@clock.org) Received: from smd@localhost by cesium.clock.org id <27209-11757>; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 05:21:01 -0800 From: "Sean M. Doran" To: easmith@beatrice.rutgers.edu, oppermann@pipeline.ch Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? Cc: andreas@klemm.gtn.com, eivind@yes.no, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, itojun@iijlab.net, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com Message-Id: <19981204132101Z27209-11757+115@cesium.clock.org> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 05:21:01 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andre Oppermann wrote: | AFAIK Switzerland is not among the Wassenaar countries and we don't | have any Crypto regulations whatsoever... plus all plans to introduce | some have been shut down quite early. Interestingly, both the Swiss flag and the Canadian flag are figured at http://www.wassenaar.org/ It would be interesting to have a clarification from the Canadian Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, since the overall development of policy in the government of the day seems to have been quite different than the press release that was quoted. Sean. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 05:38:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA00823 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 05:38:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.gtn.com (mail.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA00814 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 05:38:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mail.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id OAA06634; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:30:08 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA01100; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:00:30 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19981204140030.A1084@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:00:30 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: Andre Oppermann Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? References: <27487.912737451@coconut.itojun.org> <9812032354.ZM6453@beatrice.rutgers.edu> <3667D66F.B561157@pipeline.ch> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <3667D66F.B561157@pipeline.ch>; from Andre Oppermann on Fri, Dec 04, 1998 at 01:32:47PM +0100 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Dec 04, 1998 at 01:32:47PM +0100, Andre Oppermann wrote: > Allen Smith wrote: > > > > I believe IPsec just ran into a larger problem... parts excerpted for > > fair use. The Wassenaar countries include the home countries of all > > the IPsec participants, so far as I know. > > AFAIK Switzerland is not among the Wassenaar countries and we don't > have any Crypto regulations whatsoever... plus all plans to introduce > some have been shut down quite early. > > If this would ever be an issue then I would be able to give bandwidth > and rack space for a FreeBSD cryto repository box (like internat. > freebsd.org today). Thanks, that's very nice from you. -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas What gives you 90% more speed, for example, in kernel compilation ? http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html "NT = Not Today" (Maggie Biggs) ``powered by FreeBSD SMP'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 06:11:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA04223 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 06:11:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from citadel.cdsec.com (citadel.cdsec.com [192.96.22.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA04199 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 06:11:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gram@cdsec.com) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by citadel.cdsec.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) id QAA27880; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:11:19 +0200 (SAST) Received: by citadel via recvmail id 27878; Fri Dec 4 16:11:17 1998 From: Graham Wheeler Message-Id: <199812041421.QAA03311@cdsec.com> Subject: Re: Crypto policy [was: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec?] To: reg@shale.csir.co.za (Jeremy Lea) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:21:06 +0200 (SAT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981204151923.A255@shale.csir.co.za> from "Jeremy Lea" at Dec 4, 98 03:19:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25-h4.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Fri, Dec 04, 1998 at 01:32:47PM +0100, Andre Oppermann wrote: > > I doubt there will be problems with internat. South Africa is not part of > this, and is not likely to be, considering our good diplomatic relations > with China, Libya, Cuba and sometimes even Iraq. According to the GILC 1997 International Survey on Encryption Policy (http://www.gilc.org/crypto/crypto-results.html): "According to the Commerce/NSA report, the South African government controls encryption as a dual-use item on the General Armaments Control Schedule. Exports of encryption require an individual validated license. The control of encryption is under the jurisdiction of the South African Department of Defense Armaments Development and Protection Act, 1968, No. R. 888, published on May 13, 1994. "An individual validated license is required for the import of encryption software. A valid permit from the Armaments Control Division is required for the import or transportation of cryptographic equipment or software. This information is gleaned from State Department Johannesburg Cable 000951, June 23, 1995. "Ref: A Study of the International Market for Computer Software with Encryption , U.S. Department of Commerce and the National Security Agency, July 1995." > To the South African's on the list: Anyone have any ideas on the best way > to get encryption enshrined as a constitutional right? Better to be > proactive than reactive. I'm sure some argument about the need for > individuals to protect themselves, to prevent an recurrence of the horrors of > the past, would go some way. One would have to take the issue to the Constitutional Court, which has a backlog of cases several months long. I'm trying to get some info out of the Law Commission at the moment to get an idea of what sort of case we would have. The constitution enshrines the right to privacy, and also the right to practice our trade, so I think we could have a good case. Also, the export restrictions thrust upon the world by US pressure are so illogical, and our constitutional court judges so impeccable, that I can't see such a case being lost very easily (although I'm no lawyer). But to take this up would take time and money, so I suspect in the end we will be reactive after all... -- Dr Graham Wheeler E-mail: gram@cdsec.com Citadel Data Security Phone: +27(21)23-6065/6/7 Internet/Intranet Network Specialists Mobile: +27(83)253-9864 Firewalls/Virtual Private Networks Fax: +27(21)24-3656 Data Security Products WWW: http://www.cdsec.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 06:14:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA04470 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 06:14:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from numeri.campus.luth.se (numeri.campus.luth.se [130.240.197.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA04423 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 06:14:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from k@numeri.campus.luth.se) Received: from numeri.campus.luth.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by numeri.campus.luth.se (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA26753 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:18:22 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from k@numeri.campus.luth.se) Message-Id: <199812041418.PAA26753@numeri.campus.luth.se> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Cache disabling Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 15:18:22 +0100 From: Johan Karlsson Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi I'm using 2.2-Stable and want to disable caching for some memory. Will the page with the physical address phys have caching disabled if the function (see patch below) pmap_page_noncacheable is used? Is there another (better) way to do it? If not, could this patch make it into the src tree (when I submit a PR)? ==== patch ===== *** i386/i386/pmap.c.orig Fri Dec 4 11:32:21 1998 --- i386/i386/pmap.c Fri Dec 4 11:44:59 1998 *************** *** 2771,2776 **** --- 2771,2789 ---- } /* + * pmap_page_noncacheable: + * + * Set/Clear Non-cacheable option (i.e. PG_N) for page + */ + void + pmap_page_noncacheable(phys, noncacheable) + vm_offset_t phys; + boolean_t noncacheable; + { + pmap_changebit(phys, PG_N, noncacheable); + } + + /* * pmap_page_protect: * * Lower the permission for all mappings to a given page. =============== /K -- Johan Karlsson mailto:k@numeri.campus.luth.se SWEDEN To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 06:27:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA05557 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 06:27:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.kt.rim.or.jp (mail.kt.rim.or.jp [202.247.130.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA05551 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 06:27:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp) Received: from moon.sky.rim.or.jp (ppp530.kt.rim.or.jp [202.247.140.180]) by mail.kt.rim.or.jp (8.8.5/3.6W-RIMNET-98-06-09) with ESMTP id XAA11627 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 23:26:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from sky.rim.or.jp (earth [192.168.1.2]) by moon.sky.rim.or.jp (8.8.7/3.5Wpl4/moon-1.0) with ESMTP id XAA04707 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 23:26:04 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <3667F04E.C5CCB950@sky.rim.or.jp> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 23:23:10 +0900 From: Jun Kuriyama X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [ja] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? References: <2414.912739085@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > - KAME guys will import and merge in new KAME into 3.0 repository, > > every time KAME makes a new bi-monthly snapshot. Important > > fixes/changes are synced right away. > > Sounds like you just need to maintain things on a vendor branch and > periodically merge, yes. We'd also be happy to give commit privs to > some number of KAME folks so that the merging process didn't > necessarily have to fall on one person (you) :-) I'm only a user of KAME, not a developper. But I don't mind to make a little time to check and commit when itojun-san (and others?) is busy for working on it. :-) -- Jun Kuriyama // kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp // kuriyama@FreeBSD.ORG To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 06:31:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA06113 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 06:31:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from home.dragondata.com (home.dragondata.com [204.137.237.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA05980 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 06:31:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toasty@home.dragondata.com) Received: (from toasty@localhost) by home.dragondata.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id IAA27124 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:31:39 -0600 (CST) From: Kevin Day Message-Id: <199812041431.IAA27124@home.dragondata.com> Subject: Nonblocking page fetching To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:31:39 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have an application where I'm streaming large amounts of data from disk, and throwing it on the screen. (Playing a movie, essentially). I'm mmapping the region that i'm playing, and just start memcpy'ing each frame into the renderer's buffer. This is very time critical, so running out of buffered data isn't good. I needed a way to trick the kernel into bringing pages off of disk without making my process block waiting for them. Essentially, if I'm playing frame 10, I'd better already have frames 10-15 in ram, and should start bringing frame 16 in, while 10 is playing. (I tried keeping a 4-6 frame buffer) The hack I ended up using was another process that I could tell that I needed the frames, and all it did was sit in a for loop touching every page, to force them to be brought in. This has some obvious disadvantages, but it stopped my movie player from sitting in vmwait when it could be doing other things. What would be very nice is a syscall that could tell the vm system that a page will be needed shortly, so bring it in as soon as possible. Sort of like madvising with WILL_NEED, but a much stronger hint. Before I start meddling in things I don't understand (the vm system), does anyone have any suggestions/comments? If I'm going to do it, i'd like to do it the correct way so that perhaps others would want to use it as well. One final note... Does anyone know what effect turning off the bzero on new pages would be? Security is not an issue in this system, as it's not connected to the net, and all software running on it I wrote. I go through a lot of ram, and if I could save some time by not zeroing things, it'd be great. Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 06:57:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA09004 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 06:57:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA08998 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 06:57:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id NAA08298; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:48:36 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199812041248.NAA08298@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Nonblocking page fetching To: toasty@home.dragondata.com (Kevin Day) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:48:36 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199812041431.IAA27124@home.dragondata.com> from "Kevin Day" at Dec 4, 98 08:31:20 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I have an application where I'm streaming large amounts of data from disk, ... > The hack I ended up using was another process that I could tell that I > needed the frames, and all it did was sit in a for loop touching every page, > to force them to be brought in. > > This has some obvious disadvantages, but it stopped my movie player from > sitting in vmwait when it could be doing other things. is it so bad ? The forked process should consume very little memory and because they are local you can even resort to or some cheap local IPC mechanism to synchronize them. From a portability point of view i think this is going to be to be better than provide a specialised syscall. > One final note... Does anyone know what effect turning off the bzero on new > pages would be? Security is not an issue in this system, as it's not again how bad is it ? bzero is generally done in the idle loop if i am not mistaken so you should not be affected too badly by that unless you are at or near 100% CPU usage. cheers luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 07:01:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA09326 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 07:01:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from coconut.itojun.org (coconut.itojun.org [210.160.95.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA09320 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 07:01:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from itojun@itojun.org) Received: from kiwi.itojun.org (itojun@localhost.itojun.org [127.0.0.1]) by coconut.itojun.org (8.9.1+3.1W/3.7W) with ESMTP id AAA05753; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 00:00:36 +0900 (JST) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "Open Systems Inc." , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Eivind Eklund In-reply-to: jkh's message of Thu, 03 Dec 1998 18:07:08 PST. <2283.912737228@zippy.cdrom.com> X-Template-Reply-To: itojun@itojun.org X-Template-Return-Receipt-To: itojun@itojun.org X-PGP-Fingerprint: F8 24 B4 2C 8C 98 57 FD 90 5F B4 60 79 54 16 E2 Subject: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec? Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 00:00:36 +0900 Message-ID: <5749.912783636@coconut.itojun.org> From: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> Anyway, even if the project ends, I certainly will maintain KAME tree >> (KAME was maintained in my home last year) and I'm a FreeBSD committer. >OK, well, here's the $10,000 question (as we say in the U.S.): >Assuming that a decision was made to just go with the KAME code (and >I'm not implying that it has been), how soon could this code enter >-current and how soon, in your opinion, would it be before it was >integrated well enough to be fully functional? >I'm thinking this might be a perfect post-branch activity (IPv6 would >be a 3.1 feature) which means that any time after mid-January would be >a good time. As Inoue-san (shin@kame.net) pointed out, KAME on 3.0 is almost ready, We are about to make TCPv4/v6 work (as I wrote in some of previous batch of emails we needed to port KAME patches from scratch, to sync with bunch of changes from 2.2.x to 3.x). I believe we should merge in at least after TCPv4/v6 start working on KAME on 3.0, and we will be ready before new year's day. itojun To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 07:05:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA09598 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 07:05:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from home.dragondata.com (home.dragondata.com [204.137.237.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA09589 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 07:05:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toasty@home.dragondata.com) Received: (from toasty@localhost) by home.dragondata.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id JAA04986; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 09:04:38 -0600 (CST) From: Kevin Day Message-Id: <199812041504.JAA04986@home.dragondata.com> Subject: Re: Nonblocking page fetching In-Reply-To: <199812041248.NAA08298@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from Luigi Rizzo at "Dec 4, 1998 1:48:36 pm" To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 09:04:38 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I have an application where I'm streaming large amounts of data from disk, > ... > > The hack I ended up using was another process that I could tell that I > > needed the frames, and all it did was sit in a for loop touching every page, > > to force them to be brought in. > > > > This has some obvious disadvantages, but it stopped my movie player from > > sitting in vmwait when it could be doing other things. > > is it so bad ? The forked process should consume very little memory > and because they are local you can even resort to or some cheap > local IPC mechanism to synchronize them. From a portability point of > view i think this is going to be to be better than provide a > specialised syscall. Well, I may be wrong, but I assumed that the CPU involved in just having a kernel bring pages in on it's own would be less. Is there anything that could be saved by putting this in the kernel? > > > One final note... Does anyone know what effect turning off the bzero on new > > pages would be? Security is not an issue in this system, as it's not > > again how bad is it ? bzero is generally done in the idle loop if i am > not mistaken so you should not be affected too badly by that unless you > are at or near 100% CPU usage. > We are at 100% cpu constantly. When I'm not drawing, i'm prerendering frames as far ahead as I can, as well as dealing with picky hardware that must be polled. Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 07:20:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA11114 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 07:20:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA11094 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 07:20:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id OAA08387; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:08:30 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199812041308.OAA08387@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Nonblocking page fetching To: toasty@home.dragondata.com (Kevin Day) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:08:30 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199812041504.JAA04986@home.dragondata.com> from "Kevin Day" at Dec 4, 98 09:04:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > This has some obvious disadvantages, but it stopped my movie player from > > > sitting in vmwait when it could be doing other things. > > > > is it so bad ? The forked process should consume very little memory ... > Well, I may be wrong, but I assumed that the CPU involved in just having a > kernel bring pages in on it's own would be less. Is there anything that > could be saved by putting this in the kernel? let's see... you fork a process once so that does not count. Every bunch of prefetch requires an IPC, and every page causes a context switch (or two ?) following the page fault. This is what you can save. I cannot quantify times for all the above activities, maybe someone else has some numbers. >>> One final note... Does anyone know what effect turning off the bzero on new >>> pages would be? Security is not an issue in this system, as it's not i think a lot of software will break. >> again how bad is it ? bzero is generally done in the idle loop if i am ... > We are at 100% cpu constantly. When I'm not drawing, i'm prerendering frames ok, so think this differently: bzero'ing occurs at memory speed which could be around 200-400MB/s in your case, or 10-20us/page. luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 08:07:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA16791 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:07:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA16786 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:07:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA23439 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:08:31 GMT Message-Id: <199812041108.LAA23439@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 11:05:48 -0500 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Dennis Subject: Release info Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Now that 2.2.8 is out...what is the release expectation for 3.0, 3.01 and when do you expect that 3.0 will be the "official" stable release? Ballpark estimate will do. thanks, dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 08:33:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA20778 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:33:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rs4s1.datacenter.cha.cantv.net (rs4s1.datacenter.cha.cantv.net [200.44.32.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA20762; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:33:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lem@cantv.net) Received: from lemtop (ws-25.chacao-01.int.cantv.net [200.44.44.41]) by rs4s1.datacenter.cha.cantv.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/1.0) with SMTP id MAA19607; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:32:37 -0400 (VET) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19981204123224.00b6ac90@pop.cantv.net> X-Sender: lem@pop.cantv.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 12:32:24 -0400 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG From: Luis Munoz Subject: Problem with DB password database? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id IAA20763 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi there: As part of a stress testing excercise we're doing in a set of FreeBSD servers, we created 250000+ accounts on each machine (yes, they work fine with those numbers :) We used five machines, with five different user populations. The idea is to simulate 1.2M+ users for POP/SMTP service. During this excercise, we found that one of the machine did this: bash# pwd_mkdb -p /etc/master.passwd put: Unknown error: 0 or something *very* similar to this as I'm writing from memory. The only difference among the five machines, is the usernames. Each machine has a unique set of usernames selected according to an MD5 based algorithm. There are no duplicate users on any machines yet all the users share the same UID (which is not important to us since there's no shell access). I did two tests after this (repeatable) failure. (a) pwd_mkdb'ed the master.passwd from another server. This worked flawlessly. (b) Removed 50000 users from the original master.passwd and pwd_mkdb'ed it. This also worked flawlessly. My theory, which I would like to hear opinions about, is that this particular set of users is generating a problem with DB (perhaps too many collisions?) thus the failure in put() for no apparent error. I even did a ktrace of the pwd_mkdb and found that it is not getting any signals or errors. DB 'decides' to terminate. It also strikes me that pwd_mkdb is terminating somewhere between the middle and two thirds of the file. I have the [very big] master.passwd available if someone wants to take a look at it and try to repeat the 'experiment'. I don't think this is a very serious issue IF the problem is triggered by the size of the database AND particular conditions within it, as I doubt somebody will 'attempt this at home' :) BTW, this is on 2.2.6-RELEASE w 256M RAM and plenty of disk space. On this scenario, a pwd_mkdb -u takes less than a minute. pwd_mkdb -u with my 'multi -u' patches takes about the same ammount of time for 10 users. A full pwd_mkdb takes about 110 minutes. Regards. -lem ------------ Luis E. Muñoz Centro de Operaciones de la Red CANTV Servicios To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 08:37:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA21340 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:37:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA21311 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:37:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.57.139]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA193F for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:36:46 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19981202202328.B5527@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 17:42:09 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: BSDi IPv6 (was: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec?) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just as a sidenote: I just had an IPv6 course last week (25/26th of November) using BSDi 4.0 boxes. I don't know in how far they did it all themselves but the 6 people attending the course managed, while making the boxes run and talk IPv6, to panic the boxes quite a few times. For the rest the set-up and configuring was a breeze just when it came to userland tool flags it's confusing to use -ipv6 one time and -ip6 the next. Hope this sort of thing can be avoided or standardized under FreeBSD... Because it's a US product which was shipped to the Netherlands I had no possibility to check the true crypto stuff... Only verification was built in. But since security is one of the key points of the new IP stack I think this is really a major point, at least IMHO... I have to say that on the subject of INRIA vs KAME, the folks of KAME get my preference if only for their level of dedication to FreeBSD. But it's the functionality that counts. That's what's going to be the judge to the outside world ;) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven/Asmodai asmodai(at)wxs.nl | Cum angelis et pueris, Junior Network/Security Specialist | fideles inveniamur *BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 08:39:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA21529 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:39:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from home.dragondata.com (home.dragondata.com [204.137.237.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA21524 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:39:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toasty@home.dragondata.com) Received: (from toasty@localhost) by home.dragondata.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id KAA28408; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 10:39:18 -0600 (CST) From: Kevin Day Message-Id: <199812041639.KAA28408@home.dragondata.com> Subject: Re: Nonblocking page fetching In-Reply-To: <199812041308.OAA08387@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from Luigi Rizzo at "Dec 4, 1998 2: 8:30 pm" To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 10:39:18 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > This has some obvious disadvantages, but it stopped my movie player from > > > > sitting in vmwait when it could be doing other things. > > > > > > is it so bad ? The forked process should consume very little memory > ... > > Well, I may be wrong, but I assumed that the CPU involved in just having a > > kernel bring pages in on it's own would be less. Is there anything that > > could be saved by putting this in the kernel? > > let's see... you fork a process once so that does not count. Every > bunch of prefetch requires an IPC, and every page causes a context > switch (or two ?) following the page fault. This is what you can save. > I cannot quantify times for all the above activities, maybe someone > else has some numbers. Ok, maybe I'm making a bigger deal of it than it is. > > >>> One final note... Does anyone know what effect turning off the bzero on new > >>> pages would be? Security is not an issue in this system, as it's not > > i think a lot of software will break. Doesn't that break the golden rule of never assuming the contents of new memory? > > >> again how bad is it ? bzero is generally done in the idle loop if i am > ... > > We are at 100% cpu constantly. When I'm not drawing, i'm prerendering frames > > ok, so think this differently: bzero'ing occurs at memory speed which > could be around 200-400MB/s in your case, or 10-20us/page. > Without giving away too much information, we're using a unified memory system, bandwidth usage is of extreme importance. Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 08:40:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA21655 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:40:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lor.watermarkgroup.com (lor.watermarkgroup.com [207.202.73.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA21640 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:40:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luoqi@watermarkgroup.com) Received: (from luoqi@localhost) by lor.watermarkgroup.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA25110; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:03:51 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from luoqi) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:03:51 -0500 (EST) From: Luoqi Chen Message-Id: <199812041603.LAA25110@lor.watermarkgroup.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, kev@lab321.ru Subject: Re: My 2.2.8 panics! Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hi ! > > I have freebsd sources cvsuped at 30-Nov-1998. > > When I tryed to boot kernel, compiled with -g, I received the > message: "bounce memory out of range" and then system rebooted. > Why ? > > I compiled kernel w/o debugging information with the same kernel config. > Last night this kernel traped. I saved them core dump. > > The debug information is below: > gdb -k > GDB is free software and you are welcome to distribute copies of it > under certain conditions; type "show copying" to see the conditions. > There is absolutely no warranty for GDB; type "show warranty" for details. > GDB 4.16 (i386-unknown-freebsd), Copyright 1996 Free Software Foundation, > Inc. > (kgdb) symbol-file kernel > Reading symbols from kernel...done. > (kgdb) exec-file /var/crash/kernel.0 > (kgdb) core-file /var/crash/vmcore.0 > IdlePTD 2c5000 > current pcb at 24f8b8 > panic: blkfree: freeing free frag Sometimes you need to run fsck multiple times after crash to correct all inconsistencies on disk (hopefully this is no longer necessary with the lastest fsck commit), it looks to me you were in one of those situations. Boot into single user, run fsck repeatedly on each one of your file systems until fsck can't find anything to fix. -lq To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 08:57:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA23354 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:57:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bingsun1.cc.binghamton.edu (bingsun1.cc.binghamton.edu [128.226.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA23333 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:57:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bf20761@binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (bf20761@localhost) by bingsun1.cc.binghamton.edu (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA23334 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:57:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:57:25 -0500 (EST) From: zhihuizhang X-Sender: bf20761@bingsun1 To: hackers Subject: typedef question and __P Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In file isa/isa_device.h, I find two defitions: typedef void inthand_t __P((u_int cs, u_int ef, u_int esp, u_int ss)); typedef void inthand2_t __P((int unit)); Usually, typedef takes the format as: typedef newtypename existingtype (note: only two terms follows typedef) It gives a new name (but does not create a new type) to an existing type. My question is how come there are three terms following typedefs above and where is __P defined. Are they GNU C extenstions? Thanks for your help. -------------------------------------------------- | Zhihui Zhang, http://cs.binghamton.edu/~zzhang | | Dept. of Computer Science, SUNY at Binghamton | -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 08:59:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA23612 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:59:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA23546 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:59:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id PAA08600; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:50:38 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199812041450.PAA08600@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Nonblocking page fetching To: toasty@home.dragondata.com (Kevin Day) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:50:38 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199812041639.KAA28408@home.dragondata.com> from "Kevin Day" at Dec 4, 98 10:38:59 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > >>> One final note... Does anyone know what effect turning off the bzero on new > > i think a lot of software will break. > > Doesn't that break the golden rule of never assuming the contents of new > memory? rules are there because you can have exceptions or violations. > > ok, so think this differently: bzero'ing occurs at memory speed which > > could be around 200-400MB/s in your case, or 10-20us/page. > > Without giving away too much information, we're using a unified memory > system, bandwidth usage is of extreme importance. ok... but again, i don't know if pages used as i/o buffer are bzeroed before use -- that should not be strictly necessary. luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 09:42:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA29700 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 09:42:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.nacamar.de (mail.nacamar.de [194.162.162.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA29693 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 09:42:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rohrbach@mail.nacamar.de) Received: (from rohrbach@localhost) by mail.nacamar.de (8.8.7/8.8.8MB-19980212) id SAA20776 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:42:05 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19981204184205.A19848@nacamar.net> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:42:05 +0100 From: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: idea: GRUB as standard boot loader Reply-To: rohrbach@nacamar.net Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i X-Arbitrary-Number-Of-The-Day: 42 X-Sender: rohrbach@nacamar.net X-Organisation: Nacamar Data Communications GmbH X-Address: Robert-Bosch-Str. 32, 63303 Dreieich, Germany X-Phone: vox: +49 6103 993 870 fax: +49 6103 993 199 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi folks, fiddling around with many free os'es i finally got my hands on GRUB (grand unified bootloader) due to the special stuff one's gotta do when booting mach or other microkernels... i had my box running freebsd2.2.x-stable, linux, hurd, lites based linux-i386 server and fiasco (well dos/winnt is also on one partition). the funny thing with grub is, that it is fully runtime configured (eg. it reads a file off some partition and interprets it as a menu) and you can drop to a command line and boot up the system with custom parameters such as root partition or (in mach case) the servers you gotta start fully interactive. since the loader supports filesystems like fat, ufs and ext2fs you can have the menu file and stage2 loader on nearly any disk/partition in the system. it has native support for loading and booting bsd style kernels (freebsd2.x, netbsd, 386bsd), mach style stuff (lites, osf's mklinux stuff, fiasco), linux vmlinux and zImage (piggyback) kernels. it also starts standard msdos style chainloaded bootblock thingamabobs. now whats missing is the root device detection for freebsd3 (it seems that something has changed). when i upgraded to freebsd-3.0-release, grub did not pass the correct root device to the kernel (so i installed a standard bootloader on freebsd's main partition and boot it via the chainloader). i tried to get "booteasy" to work several times on several (scsi) systems and booteasy often seems to screw with disk geometry issues, so the boxes refuse to start. the 100% fix was to install grub or to install the standard freebsd bootloader. the main thing with grub is versatility, and it would be kinda cool thing to have grub as standard freebsd bootloader (hey it kicks ass). the only issue for a fix would be the root device detection, i dont have a clue where to look for that, but when i got my -current box running again, i might look into that... just my idea for a more flexible boot solution... /k -- "Nuclear war can ruin your whole compile." -- Karl Lehenbauer http://www.nacamar.de - http://www.nacamar.net - http://www.webmonster.de http://www.apache.de - http://www.quakeforum.de - finger rohrbach@nacamar.net PGP Key fingerprint = F9 A0 DF 91 74 07 6A 1C 5F 0B E0 6B 4D CD 8C 44 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 11:35:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11620 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:35:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA11614 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:35:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA16719; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:34:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:34:35 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199812041934.LAA16719@apollo.backplane.com> To: Kevin Day Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Nonblocking page fetching References: <199812041431.IAA27124@home.dragondata.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :I have an application where I'm streaming large amounts of data from disk, :and throwing it on the screen. (Playing a movie, essentially). I'm mmapping :the region that i'm playing, and just start memcpy'ing each frame into the :renderer's buffer. This is very time critical, so running out of buffered :data isn't good. : :I needed a way to trick the kernel into bringing pages off of disk without :making my process block waiting for them. Essentially, if I'm playing frame :10, I'd better already have frames 10-15 in ram, and should start bringing :frame 16 in, while 10 is playing. (I tried keeping a 4-6 frame buffer) :... : :What would be very nice is a syscall that could tell the vm system that a :page will be needed shortly, so bring it in as soon as possible. Sort of :like madvising with WILL_NEED, but a much stronger hint. The facility already exists in the system. In fact, it even exists in -stable. mmap() the region as per normal. madvise() the region to be MADV_WILLNEED madvise() the region to be MADV_SEQUENTIAL The kernel will read-ahead. Now, it will not read-ahead quickly enough to avoid blocking, but you may be able to tune the kernel specifically to handle your situation. Take a look at the code in vm/vm_fault.c, around line 351. Also look at the VM_FAULT_READ_AHEAD and VM_FAULT_READ_BEHIND defines. The key to making this work in a full-streaming application is to issue I/O for N pages ahead but to not fault-in one page in the center of that group. You then take a page fault when you hit that page, but since it is in the buffer cache it doesn't block and the kernel takes the opportunity to issue read-aheads for the next N pages (of which N/2 already probably in the buffer cache). If you make N big enough, you are all set. Note, however, that disk I/O bandwidth is much less then memory bandwidth and probably much less then video-write bandwidth. If you have limited memory to buffer the data, you *will* block at some point. :One final note... Does anyone know what effect turning off the bzero on new :pages would be? Security is not an issue in this system, as it's not :connected to the net, and all software running on it I wrote. I go through a :lot of ram, and if I could save some time by not zeroing things, it'd be :great. : :Kevin We'd have to be careful but I see no reason why pages allocated in order for I/O to be issued need to be zerod. But I was under the impression that it already happened this way (pages allocated for I/O sized at least to a page aren't zereod). In fact, I'm sure of it. -Matt Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications & God knows what else. (Please include original email in any response) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 11:46:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA12093 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:46:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA12067 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:45:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08557; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:45:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd008419; Fri Dec 4 12:45:35 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA28830; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:45:23 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199812041945.MAA28830@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: typedef question and __P To: bf20761@binghamton.edu (zhihuizhang) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:45:23 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "zhihuizhang" at Dec 4, 98 11:57:25 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > In file isa/isa_device.h, I find two defitions: > > typedef void inthand_t __P((u_int cs, u_int ef, u_int esp, u_int ss)); > typedef void inthand2_t __P((int unit)); > > Usually, typedef takes the format as: > > typedef newtypename existingtype (note: only two terms follows typedef) > > It gives a new name (but does not create a new type) to an existing type. > > My question is how come there are three terms following typedefs above and > where is __P defined. Are they GNU C extenstions? No. They are glue to allow the kernel to be compiled with a standard K&R compiler, like you might find on a platform not yet running BSD, and to which the GNU tools haven't yet been ported, and for which you are not personally interested in becoming the maintainer of a compiler port for 3 years in order to satisfy the terms of the GPL. In other words, machines most likely to want a BSD port because an OS refresh from their original vendor isn't ever going to happen. Like a Microport UNIX or Cubix or old Altos box, for which the GNU binutils have given up support, or like the PARISC or DEC Alpha, where the GNU tools are vastly inferior to the instruction reordering compilers available from the vendor. In any case, the glue is defined in: /usr/include/sys/cdefs.h This file also contains wrappers for K&R vs. ANSI use of const, signed, and volatile, whish are necessary to support the arbitrary alias assumptions for loop unrolling and register promotion of non-local references, which the compiler could determine were not locally scoped, but doesn't bother to do so. There is also BSD support for the non-standard inline, dead, dead2, pure, pure2, unused, __weak_reference, __warn_references, and the __IDSTRING construct (to keep the compiler from bitching about unreferenced identification strings, as in SCCS ID's, etc.). It also defines mechanisms for identifier concatenation (K&R x/**/y vs. ANSI x ## y) and conversion of manifest values to strings (K&R "x" vs. ANSI #x). Finally, it defines conditinals for wrapping function references, namely __BEGIN_DECLS and __END_DECLS, such that the system header files can be included by both C and C++ source, and still function (this last is a result of needing semantic sugar to prevent symbol decoration of external C function references by C++ code, since the C++ compiler would otherwise decorate the symbol. Mostly this is a reaction to compiler writers to lazy to write smarter linkers and/or use object formats that allow attribution of symbols outside of incursions into the symbol namespace, so even though ELF doesn't need this, the GNU toolchain for C++ still engages in decoration instead of attribution). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 11:52:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA12679 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:52:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (sj-dsl-9-129-138.dspeed.net [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA12674 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:52:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA74122; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:52:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199812041952.LAA74122@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Kevin Day cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Nonblocking page fetching In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 04 Dec 1998 08:31:39 CST." <199812041431.IAA27124@home.dragondata.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 11:52:05 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, See aio_read(2) I think is what you are looking for 8) Another way of doing it is by issuing a non blocking read and using select to determine when the read is ready. Have Fun, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 11:55:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA13195 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:55:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from penmax.com (cc595093-a.mdltwn1.nj.home.com [24.3.192.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA13177 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:55:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vincef@penmax.com) Received: from penmax.com (rembrandt.penmax.com [10.1.3.2]) by penmax.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA09107; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:01:42 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from vincef@penmax.com) Message-ID: <3668416B.242774A7@penmax.com> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 15:09:15 -0500 From: Vincent Fleming Reply-To: vincef@penmax.com Organization: Penmax Grafix, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en]C-AtHome0404 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: zhihuizhang CC: hackers Subject: Re: typedef question and __P References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG zhihuizhang wrote: > > In file isa/isa_device.h, I find two defitions: > > typedef void inthand_t __P((u_int cs, u_int ef, u_int esp, u_int ss)); > typedef void inthand2_t __P((int unit)); > > Usually, typedef takes the format as: > > typedef newtypename existingtype (note: only two terms follows typedef) > > It gives a new name (but does not create a new type) to an existing type. > > My question is how come there are three terms following typedefs above and > where is __P defined. Are they GNU C extenstions? > It's a function declaration. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 12:03:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA14001 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:03:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA13984 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:03:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA17061; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:03:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:03:18 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199812042003.MAA17061@apollo.backplane.com> To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Kevin Day , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Nonblocking page fetching References: <199812041431.IAA27124@home.dragondata.com> <199812041934.LAA16719@apollo.backplane.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ::What would be very nice is a syscall that could tell the vm system that a ::page will be needed shortly, so bring it in as soon as possible. Sort of ::like madvising with WILL_NEED, but a much stronger hint. : : The facility already exists in the system. In fact, it even exists in : -stable. : : mmap() the region as per normal. : : madvise() the region to be MADV_WILLNEED : madvise() the region to be MADV_SEQUENTIAL Oh, quick adjustment: don't do the MADV_WILLNEED. The reason you do not want to do it is because if you do the kernel will instantiate the pte's for any pages related to the file that are already in the buffer cache, which can actually interfere with the read-ahead mechanism outlined below. By starting with a clean page-table slate, the faults occur where they are supposed to occur. : The kernel will read-ahead. Now, it will not read-ahead quickly enough : to avoid blocking, but you may be able to tune the kernel specifically : to handle your situation. Take a look at the code in vm/vm_fault.c, : around line 351. Also look at the VM_FAULT_READ_AHEAD and : VM_FAULT_READ_BEHIND defines. : : The key to making this work in a full-streaming application is to : issue I/O for N pages ahead but to not fault-in one page in the center : of that group. You then take a page fault when you hit that page, but : since it is in the buffer cache it doesn't block and the kernel takes : the opportunity to issue read-aheads for the next N pages (of which N/2 : already probably in the buffer cache). If you make N big enough, you : are all set. : : Note, however, that disk I/O bandwidth is much less then memory bandwidth : and probably much less then video-write bandwidth. If you have limited : memory to buffer the data, you *will* block at some point. Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications & God knows what else. (Please include original email in any response) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 12:16:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA15394 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:16:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA15385 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:16:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0zm1dR-0000WQ-00; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:15:29 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.1/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA41793; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:14:54 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199812042014.NAA41793@harmony.village.org> To: Robert Withrow Subject: Re: multiple keyboard support Cc: Mike Smith , Florin Nicolescu , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD-hackers) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:11:22 EST." <199811301511.KAA13684@spooky.rwwa.com> References: <199811301511.KAA13684@spooky.rwwa.com> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 13:14:53 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199811301511.KAA13684@spooky.rwwa.com> Robert Withrow writes: : Along the same lines, does anyone know of a "keyboard eliminator" or : a "dummy keyboard" that will allow me to make headless systems with : motherboards who's bioses insist on having a keyboard to boot? I've seen on the net several schematics and software to make your generic PIC device do this. I looked just now and cound't find them, but it wouldn't be that hard to find. On a related note, you'll likely want to convert the keyboard -> serial and then have a boatload of serial ports. Mike is right about the serial port-less nature of the keyboard. I tried once to have a many -> 1 keyboard port network for console messages and gave up when I found problems with the avareage keyboard port being rather limited to talk to one and only one device, despite being open collector. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 12:16:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA15622 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:16:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA15610 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:16:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0zm1eH-0000WU-00; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:16:21 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.1/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA41814; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:15:48 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199812042015.NAA41814@harmony.village.org> To: Robert Withrow Subject: Re: multiple keyboard support Cc: Mike Smith , Florin Nicolescu , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD-hackers) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:11:22 EST." <199811301511.KAA13684@spooky.rwwa.com> References: <199811301511.KAA13684@spooky.rwwa.com> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 13:15:47 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199811301511.KAA13684@spooky.rwwa.com> Robert Withrow writes: : Along the same lines, does anyone know of a "keyboard eliminator" or : a "dummy keyboard" that will allow me to make headless systems with : motherboards who's bioses insist on having a keyboard to boot? I've also seen them advertised in the back of Ciruit Cellar for approx $50. Parts for a PIC version would by $15. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 12:28:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17092 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:28:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from home.dragondata.com (home.dragondata.com [204.137.237.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17087 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:28:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toasty@home.dragondata.com) Received: (from toasty@localhost) by home.dragondata.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id OAA25409; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:28:29 -0600 (CST) From: Kevin Day Message-Id: <199812042028.OAA25409@home.dragondata.com> Subject: Re: Nonblocking page fetching In-Reply-To: <199812041934.LAA16719@apollo.backplane.com> from Matthew Dillon at "Dec 4, 1998 11:34:35 am" To: dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:28:29 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > :I have an application where I'm streaming large amounts of data from disk, > :and throwing it on the screen. (Playing a movie, essentially). I'm mmapping > :the region that i'm playing, and just start memcpy'ing each frame into the > :renderer's buffer. This is very time critical, so running out of buffered > :data isn't good. > : > :I needed a way to trick the kernel into bringing pages off of disk without > :making my process block waiting for them. Essentially, if I'm playing frame > :10, I'd better already have frames 10-15 in ram, and should start bringing > :frame 16 in, while 10 is playing. (I tried keeping a 4-6 frame buffer) > :... > : > :What would be very nice is a syscall that could tell the vm system that a > :page will be needed shortly, so bring it in as soon as possible. Sort of > :like madvising with WILL_NEED, but a much stronger hint. > > The facility already exists in the system. In fact, it even exists in > -stable. > > mmap() the region as per normal. > > madvise() the region to be MADV_WILLNEED > madvise() the region to be MADV_SEQUENTIAL > > The kernel will read-ahead. Now, it will not read-ahead quickly enough > to avoid blocking, but you may be able to tune the kernel specifically > to handle your situation. Take a look at the code in vm/vm_fault.c, > around line 351. Also look at the VM_FAULT_READ_AHEAD and > VM_FAULT_READ_BEHIND defines. > > The key to making this work in a full-streaming application is to > issue I/O for N pages ahead but to not fault-in one page in the center > of that group. You then take a page fault when you hit that page, but > since it is in the buffer cache it doesn't block and the kernel takes > the opportunity to issue read-aheads for the next N pages (of which N/2 > already probably in the buffer cache). If you make N big enough, you > are all set. I tried this initially, and had a few problems: 1) madvise seems slow 2) I need a *huge* amount to be prefetched when we first start, but the amount varies considerably from movie to movie. I need something tunable on the fly. (N changes with use) > > Note, however, that disk I/O bandwidth is much less then memory bandwidth > and probably much less then video-write bandwidth. If you have limited > memory to buffer the data, you *will* block at some point. It's not so much bandwidth, but latency. My movie's bandwidth is much less than the disk bandwidth, i just can never stop to wait for things to be brought in. Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 12:30:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17268 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:30:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17261 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:30:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id MAA29185 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:29:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com( 207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V2.0) id xma029183; Fri, 4 Dec 98 12:28:57 -0800 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id MAA06497 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:28:57 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199812042028.MAA06497@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Help with clist_alloc_cblocks() To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:28:57 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I'm trying to write a line discipline, roughly similar to the PPP line discipline. My question is, what are the correct parameters to give to clist_alloc_cblocks()? /* * Pre-allocate cblocks to the an appropriate amount. */ ttyflush(tp, FREAD | FWRITE); clist_alloc_cblocks(&tp->t_canq, 0, 0); clist_alloc_cblocks(&tp->t_rawq, 0, 0); /* XXX probably wrong! */ clist_alloc_cblocks(&tp->t_outq, MLEN + NGT_HIWATER, MLEN + NGT_HIWATER); I'm not sure how to determine what the correct values to call clist_alloc_cblocks() should be. The values I'm using now cause a bunch of "interrupt-level buffer overflows" reported from the sio driver. It looks like I can simply increase the values for tp->t_rawq but I'd like to understand exactly what they mean first. Thanks, -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 12:38:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17973 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:38:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17968 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:38:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA27164; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:37:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdm27159; Fri Dec 4 20:37:41 1998 Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:37:13 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Archie Cobbs cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Help with clist_alloc_cblocks() In-Reply-To: <199812042028.MAA06497@bubba.whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG UTSL? (helpful aren't I?) On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Archie Cobbs wrote: > Hello, > I'm trying to write a line discipline, roughly similar to the PPP > line discipline. My question is, what are the correct parameters to > give to clist_alloc_cblocks()? > > /* > * Pre-allocate cblocks to the an appropriate amount. > */ > > ttyflush(tp, FREAD | FWRITE); > clist_alloc_cblocks(&tp->t_canq, 0, 0); > clist_alloc_cblocks(&tp->t_rawq, 0, 0); /* XXX probably wrong! */ > clist_alloc_cblocks(&tp->t_outq, MLEN + NGT_HIWATER, MLEN + NGT_HIWATER); > > I'm not sure how to determine what the correct values to call > clist_alloc_cblocks() should be. The values I'm using now cause a > bunch of "interrupt-level buffer overflows" reported from the sio > driver. It looks like I can simply increase the values for tp->t_rawq > but I'd like to understand exactly what they mean first. > > Thanks, > -Archie > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 12:39:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA18155 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:39:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from root.com (root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA18007 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:39:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@root.com) Received: from root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA08017; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:40:06 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199812042040.MAA08017@root.com> To: Archie Cobbs cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Help with clist_alloc_cblocks() In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 04 Dec 1998 12:28:57 PST." <199812042028.MAA06497@bubba.whistle.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 12:40:06 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >I'm trying to write a line discipline, roughly similar to the PPP >line discipline. My question is, what are the correct parameters to >give to clist_alloc_cblocks()? > > /* > * Pre-allocate cblocks to the an appropriate amount. > */ > > ttyflush(tp, FREAD | FWRITE); > clist_alloc_cblocks(&tp->t_canq, 0, 0); > clist_alloc_cblocks(&tp->t_rawq, 0, 0); /* XXX probably wrong! */ > clist_alloc_cblocks(&tp->t_outq, MLEN + NGT_HIWATER, MLEN + NGT_HIWATER); > >I'm not sure how to determine what the correct values to call >clist_alloc_cblocks() should be. The values I'm using now cause a >bunch of "interrupt-level buffer overflows" reported from the sio >driver. It looks like I can simply increase the values for tp->t_rawq >but I'd like to understand exactly what they mean first. A lack of cblocks should not cause interrupt-level buffer overflows. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 12:44:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA18622 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:44:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA18613 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:44:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id MAA29409; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:43:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com( 207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V2.0) id xma029406; Fri, 4 Dec 98 12:43:04 -0800 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id MAA06772; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:43:04 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199812042043.MAA06772@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: Help with clist_alloc_cblocks() In-Reply-To: <199812042040.MAA08017@root.com> from David Greenman at "Dec 4, 98 12:40:06 pm" To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:43:04 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Greenman writes: > >I'm trying to write a line discipline, roughly similar to the PPP > >line discipline. My question is, what are the correct parameters to > >give to clist_alloc_cblocks()? > > > > /* > > * Pre-allocate cblocks to the an appropriate amount. > > */ > > > > ttyflush(tp, FREAD | FWRITE); > > clist_alloc_cblocks(&tp->t_canq, 0, 0); > > clist_alloc_cblocks(&tp->t_rawq, 0, 0); /* XXX probably wrong! */ > > clist_alloc_cblocks(&tp->t_outq, MLEN + NGT_HIWATER, MLEN + NGT_HIWATER); > > > >I'm not sure how to determine what the correct values to call > >clist_alloc_cblocks() should be. The values I'm using now cause a > >bunch of "interrupt-level buffer overflows" reported from the sio > >driver. It looks like I can simply increase the values for tp->t_rawq > >but I'd like to understand exactly what they mean first. > > A lack of cblocks should not cause interrupt-level buffer overflows. Hmm, then that assumption is wrong. Do you have any suggestions as to (a) what the problem indicates and/or (b) how to fix it? We're running at 230K (the serial chip supports this speed). This doesn't happen at 115K, so clearly something is overflowing somewhere because characters are arriving too fast. Is this some kind of fundamental limitation of the hardware or is there a way to address it in software by increasing the size of some buffer somewhere? Thanks, -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 13:05:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA20580 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:05:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20566 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:04:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA28267; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:03:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdz28263; Fri Dec 4 21:03:56 1998 Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:03:29 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Archie Cobbs cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Help with clist_alloc_cblocks() In-Reply-To: <199812042028.MAA06497@bubba.whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG check kern/tty_subr.c around line 150 on. values of 0 for the last 2 args will allocate exactly 1 cblock (the way I read it) that is 128 - 16 - 4 == 108 bytes of storage. the arguments are ccmax (above which the list will not be grown) and ccreserve, ( below which the allocated cblocks will not be freed) a value of 0 sets each to 1 cblock. you probably want to use values of 1000, 300 or something. On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Archie Cobbs wrote: > Hello, > I'm trying to write a line discipline, roughly similar to the PPP > line discipline. My question is, what are the correct parameters to > give to clist_alloc_cblocks()? > > /* > * Pre-allocate cblocks to the an appropriate amount. > */ > > ttyflush(tp, FREAD | FWRITE); > clist_alloc_cblocks(&tp->t_canq, 0, 0); > clist_alloc_cblocks(&tp->t_rawq, 0, 0); /* XXX probably wrong! */ > clist_alloc_cblocks(&tp->t_outq, MLEN + NGT_HIWATER, MLEN + NGT_HIWATER); > > I'm not sure how to determine what the correct values to call > clist_alloc_cblocks() should be. The values I'm using now cause a > bunch of "interrupt-level buffer overflows" reported from the sio > driver. It looks like I can simply increase the values for tp->t_rawq > but I'd like to understand exactly what they mean first. > > Thanks, > -Archie > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 14:10:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27632 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:10:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA27612 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:10:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA24621 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:11:24 GMT Message-Id: <199812041711.RAA24621@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 17:08:38 -0500 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Dennis Subject: annoying interrupt handler decl in v3.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG regarding isa_device.h now having hard coded declarations in v3.0, isn't this a step backwards? intrhand2_t xxintr considering that this code could easily be generated from the config file why are you going from dynamic to hard-coded, forcing a manual change whenever a new driver is added? dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 14:20:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA28824 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:20:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA28809 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:20:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shmit@natasya.noc.erols.net) Received: from natasya.noc.erols.net (natasya.noc.erols.net [207.172.25.236]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA11141 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:19:49 -0500 (EST) Received: (from shmit@localhost) by natasya.noc.erols.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA15274 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:19:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19981204171947.L26279@kublai.com> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:19:47 -0500 From: Brian Cully To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Sysconfig, or, the SysV vs. BSD init wars Reply-To: shmit@kublai.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i X-Sender: If your mailer pays attention to this, it's broken. X-PGP-Info: finger shmit@kublai.com for my public key. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [I hope I manage to state myself clearly in this message, but I'm a little confused as to how to relate everything.] I've spent the last few weeks working on and off on a replacement for /etc/rc, and given the recent traffic regarding such, I figured now's a good time to tell the world. The program itself, sysconfig (probably should be called sysinit, given it's functionality), should be called from init instead of /etc/rc, and sysconfig reads it's data out of /etc/system (or something). The syntax of the file looks like this: service = { enabled = "YES"; supplies = [ "service_1"; ...; "service_n"; ]; requires = [ "requirement_1; ...; "requirement_n"; ]; load = "startup script"; unload = "teardown script"; }; The supplies and requires nodes can be regular strings, too, instead of arrays, or even another dictionary (but that hasn't been written yet, it's of dubious value to me). The syntax should look like your everyday dictionary, and can have dictionaries or arrays nested indefinately within other dictionaries or arrays (which could be useful). The load and unload nodes can reference other nodes like this: load = "ifconfig $address $netmask"; or, if you want to leave local scope, you can reference an element in another node: load = "ifconfig $root.address $super.netmask"; So, if you want to config your ethernet interfaces: network = { enabled = "YES"; supplies = "network"; load = "ifconfig $address $netmask $media $options"; unload = "ifconfig $key down"; interfaces = [ "fxp0"; "lo0"; ]; fxp0 = { address = "207.172.25.236"; netmask = "255.255.255.0"; media = "media 100BaseTX mediaopt full-duplex"; }; lo0 = { address = "127.0.0.1"; netmask = "255.0.0.0"; }; }; As you can see, the name of the service is arbitrary for now, eventually, I want to have the service name be a module that can be loaded at run-time for third-party extension. If there is no module it'll use default behaviour (which will fail with the network example above). This requires ld.so and libc.so to be on the root partition, which is something we'll probably eventually need anyway, as the system becomes more and more dynamic. You can source other files, to assist in ease-of-maintenance for centralised distribution. The dictionary parsing stuff is sufficiently high-level as to allow for a menu-driven configurator for newbies (and random other uses, I'm using it in my RADIUS daemon, for example). The dictionary code is really only up to the task of parsing the config file and printing it out again right now, because that's as much functionality as I need for the moment (but it's very good about failure modes, giving you a nice stack backtrace). In the future, though, I want to make it more robust. I'm of two minds about the /etc/init.d/service start|stop functionality in SysV init, I want to implement it, but am not sure how, here's the way I see it: 1) Have the `load' and `unload' nodes just call external scripts to do the dirty work, that you can call yourself when you want to, or, 2) Have a `telinit' style program where you can say: telinit module unload telinit module load The perks here being that you could theoretically replace init eventually, and you can have sysinit do all the dependency tracking information so you can't easily unload a service that's in use by another service that's still up (which I think would be way cool, and worth the confusion over having to use a `telinit' style program). I've got my code to a point where it tracks down who supplies what, and with a little more work (in my copious spare time), it'll be able to track down dependencies and load programs. It doesn't do the object referencing I talked about above, because it's not useful to do that when I can't even load a program. :-) So in about a man-day or two, I should have it to the point where I can actually replace /etc/rc with it. Oh, yes, and it's also done completely in Objective C, because it made my life really easy while I was developing this. I'd really like feedback on this, because I'd like this to be used, or I'd at least like to stop wasting my time on it if it won't be. If you want the code send me mail, it's not very functional, but you will probably be able to see where I'm going. -- Brian Cully Macintosh -- we might not get everything right, but at least we knew the century was going to end. -- Douglas Adams, on the Y2K problem. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 14:24:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA29195 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:23:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA29183; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:23:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA24658; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:23:50 GMT Message-Id: <199812041723.RAA24658@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 17:21:03 -0500 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Dennis Subject: if_xl bug report Cc: wpaul@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG the following bug was found in the if_xl.c driver for the 3COM 509b card. if xl_start() is called and the if_snd queue is empty the driver will crash fairly consistently. This case is clearly not addressed in the driver code. Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 14:42:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01735 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:42:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from set.scient.com (set.Scient.COM [208.29.209.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA01728 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:42:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from enkhyl@scient.com) Received: by set.scient.com; (5.65v4.0/1.3/10May95) id AA12569; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:42:23 -0800 Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:42:15 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Nielsen X-Sender: enkhyl@ender.sf.scient.com Reply-To: Christopher Nielsen To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSDi IPv6 (was: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec?) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > For the rest the set-up and configuring was a breeze just when it came to > userland tool flags it's confusing to use -ipv6 one time and -ip6 the next. > Hope this sort of thing can be avoided or standardized under FreeBSD... I think the goal is transparency to the user, i.e., use IPv6 when possible and IPv4 when necessary. Although, there will probably be cases where people will want to make this selection manually. -- Christopher Nielsen Scient: The eBusiness Systems Innovator cnielsen@scient.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 15:22:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA05649 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:22:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ninbox.ml.org (hsv1-49.airnet.net [207.242.81.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05518 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:21:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ninbox.ml.org (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01361; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:13:16 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36686C8B.EFFE9D3B@airnet.net> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 17:13:15 -0600 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Warner Losh CC: Robert Withrow , FreeBSD-hackers Subject: Re: multiple keyboard support References: <199811301511.KAA13684@spooky.rwwa.com> <199812042015.NAA41814@harmony.village.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I wish I'd seen this earier. Alas, I have only myself to blame. (That damn 'delete all' reflex.) Warner Losh wrote: > > In message <199811301511.KAA13684@spooky.rwwa.com> Robert Withrow writes: > : Along the same lines, does anyone know of a "keyboard eliminator" or > : a "dummy keyboard" that will allow me to make headless systems with > : motherboards who's bioses insist on having a keyboard to boot? > > I've also seen them advertised in the back of Ciruit Cellar for approx > $50. Parts for a PIC version would by $15. > > Warner A pseudo-cheap solution is to find keyboards with stuck or dead keys and take to controller off of them, if they will seperate. The IBM PS/2 keyboard (like 5 pounds weight-wise) has a seperate controller which can be disconnected. Note, I am talking about opening the keyboard. IBM PS/2's can't run headless without keyboards either. But at least DOS is smart enough(?) to allow the command interpreter (boot loader?) to operate over the serial ports. Even if it does want the wrong pins for a NULL modem. It's real neat; the pc boots and the controller doesn't know it doesn't have a keyboard. You need a box to keep from killing the controller though. Again, you could unplug the keyboard from the controller and then reassemble it. The IBM PS/2 keyboard controller is 8" x 2" or 17cm x 5 cm. I've been able to get new Toshiba keyboards for $6 but I can't keep them: Everyone likes them, whether white or black. (Keyboards.) -- Kris Kirby UAH Mail UAH CS Home WWW ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 15:36:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA06894 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:36:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA06889 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:36:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA01735; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:38:16 -0800 (PST) To: Dennis cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Release info In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 04 Dec 1998 11:05:48 EST." <199812041108.LAA23439@etinc.com> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 15:38:16 -0800 Message-ID: <1731.912814696@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Now that 2.2.8 is out...what is the release expectation for 3.0, 3.01 and whe n > do you expect that 3.0 will be the "official" stable release? Ballpark Please see http://www.freebsd.org/FAQ/FAQ.html, section 1.7, for an updated timeline. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 15:42:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA07517 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:42:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA07502 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:42:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4006.ime.net [209.90.195.16]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA29854 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:42:04 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981204183921.00b7d4e0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 18:40:53 -0500 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: LDAP Stuff Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Installed the LDAP software from the ports tree a while ago. Figured out that if I play with the Netscape Messenger Express code a little, it works fine under FreeBSD.. So that means one less thing I need my POS NT Workstation for. Question is, Who's responsible for these tools? is there anything directly wrong with me submitting the binaries along with my changes to Netscape? Thanks, --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 16:41:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA14375 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:41:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from coconut.itojun.org (coconut.itojun.org [210.160.95.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA14370 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:41:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from itojun@itojun.org) Received: from kiwi.itojun.org (itojun@localhost.itojun.org [127.0.0.1]) by coconut.itojun.org (8.9.1+3.1W/3.7W) with ESMTP id JAA17090; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 09:41:01 +0900 (JST) To: Christopher Nielsen cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: enkhyl's message of Fri, 04 Dec 1998 14:42:15 PST. X-Template-Reply-To: itojun@itojun.org X-Template-Return-Receipt-To: itojun@itojun.org X-PGP-Fingerprint: F8 24 B4 2C 8C 98 57 FD 90 5F B4 60 79 54 16 E2 Subject: Re: BSDi IPv6 (was: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 and IPSec?) From: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 09:41:00 +0900 Message-ID: <17086.912818460@coconut.itojun.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> For the rest the set-up and configuring was a breeze just when it came to >> userland tool flags it's confusing to use -ipv6 one time and -ip6 the next. >> Hope this sort of thing can be avoided or standardized under FreeBSD... >I think the goal is transparency to the user, i.e., use IPv6 when possible >and IPv4 when necessary. Although, there will probably be cases where >people will want to make this selection manually. ifconfig, route and other maintenance commands needs "-inet6" flag, like: # ifconfig ed0 inet 10.1.1.1 netmask 0xffffff00 ~~~~ this is assumed so you usually don't use this # ifconfig ed0 inet6 3ffe:0501:4819:ffff:1:2:3:4 prefixlen 64 alias Also we sometimes need such flag to force IPv4 (or v6) adderss is used. For example: # ssh localhost (v4, or v6 - I don't care) # ssh -4 localhost (v4) # ssh -6 localhost (v4) # ssh 127.0.0.1 (v4 too) # ssh ::1 (v6) I agree that options should be standardized among userland tools. KAME is trying to use "-inet6", "inet6" or "-6" for this. itojun To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 17:17:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA17048 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:17:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (ppp3.portal.net.au [202.12.71.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA17043 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:17:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA00660; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:39:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812042339.PAA00660@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Dennis cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: annoying interrupt handler decl in v3.0 In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 04 Dec 1998 17:08:38 EST." <199812041711.RAA24621@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 15:39:58 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It's a transient step in the process of removing interrupt handler declarations from any configuration anywhere outside of the driver attach routine. > regarding isa_device.h now having hard coded declarations in v3.0, > isn't this a step backwards? > > intrhand2_t xxintr > > > considering that this code could easily be generated from the config file > why are you going from dynamic to hard-coded, forcing a manual change > whenever a new driver is added? > > dennis > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 17:18:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA17088 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:18:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (ppp3.portal.net.au [202.12.71.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA17075 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:18:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA00690; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:43:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199812042343.PAA00690@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: rohrbach@nacamar.net cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: idea: GRUB as standard boot loader In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 04 Dec 1998 18:42:05 +0100." <19981204184205.A19848@nacamar.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 15:43:54 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > i tried to get "booteasy" to work several times on several (scsi) systems > and booteasy often seems to screw with disk geometry issues, so the boxes > refuse to start. the 100% fix was to install grub or to install the > standard freebsd bootloader. Booteasy will get the disk geometry right if you got it right when you were slicing up the disk. It doesn't attempt to compensate for user error. > the main thing with grub is versatility, and it would be kinda cool thing > to have grub as standard freebsd bootloader (hey it kicks ass). the only > issue for a fix would be the root device detection, i dont have a clue > where to look for that, but when i got my -current box running again, i > might look into that... Grub's versatility is sadly lacking, and its use of a hardcoded blocklist for stage 1.5 is highly undesirable. Have a look at the new bootloader in /boot (build the up-to-date version) and see what you think of it. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Dec 4 20:21:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA03443 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 20:21:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [209.157.86.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA03434 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 20:21:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA18891; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 20:20:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 20:20:39 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <199812050420.UAA18891@apollo.backplane.com> To: Kevin Day Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Nonblocking page fetching References: <199812042028.OAA25409@home.dragondata.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :I tried this initially, and had a few problems: : :... :the amount varies considerably from movie to movie. I need something tunable :on the fly. (N changes with use) : :... :It's not so much bandwidth, but latency. My movie's bandwidth is much less :than the disk bandwidth, i just can never stop to wait for things to be :brought in. : :Kevin : :To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org :with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message Well, I guess for your application the easiest thing to do is to simply use your second-process idea, accessing the pages ahead of time to force them into the cache. I getting carried away :-) -Matt Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications & God knows what else. (Please include original email in any response) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 5 00:46:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA20291 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 00:46:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lab321.ru (anonymous1.omsk.net.ru [62.76.128.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA20261 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 00:45:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kev@lab321.ru) Received: from www.lab321.ru (kev@www.lab321.ru [62.76.129.65]) by lab321.ru (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id OAA10426; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 14:43:23 +0600 (OS) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 14:43:23 +0600 (OS) From: Eugeny Kuzakov To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: darrenr@pobox.com Subject: 2.2.8&ipfilter 3.2.10 panics Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-734564153-912847403=:5898" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --0-734564153-912847403=:5898 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I use -stable cvsuped at 30-Nov-1998 and kernel compiled ipfilter 3.2.10. My fbsd box dynamically reconfigure ipf and ipnat after up/down any ppp connection. Last night kernel traped. Debug info: root@lab321:/sys/compile/ipfilter(6)# gdb -k GDB is free software and you are welcome to distribute copies of it under certain conditions; type "show copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB; type "show warranty" for details. GDB 4.16 (i386-unknown-freebsd), Copyright 1996 Free Software Foundation, Inc. (kgdb) symbol-file kernel.debug Reading symbols from kernel.debug...done. (kgdb) exec-file /var/crash/kernel.0 (kgdb) core-file /var/crash/vmcore.0 IdlePTD 27a000 current pcb at 2364b0 panic: fr_tcpsum(3): not enough data #0 boot (howto=260) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:266 266 dumppcb.pcb_cr3 = rcr3(); (kgdb) where #0 boot (howto=260) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:266 #1 0xf0113972 in panic (fmt=0xf01e9fdf "page fault") at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:400 #2 0xf01eabca in trap_fatal (frame=0xf0224cd8) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:772 #3 0xf01ea68c in trap_pfault (frame=0xf0224cd8, usermode=0) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:681 #4 0xf01ea317 in trap (frame={tf_es = 16, tf_ds = 16, tf_edi = 0, tf_esi = -189257984, tf_ebp = -266187484, tf_isp = -266187520, tf_ebx = -190851200, tf_edx = 0, tf_ecx = -195695360, tf_eax = -194248320, tf_trapno = 12, tf_err = 0, tf_eip = -267179282, tf_cs = 8, tf_eflags = 66118, tf_esp = 0, tf_ss = -190851200}) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:324 #5 0xf0132aee in vget (vp=0xf49fd780, lockflag=1) at ../../kern/vfs_subr.c:817 #6 0xf01c99ec in ffs_sync (mp=0xf4563600, waitfor=2, cred=0xf3018980, p=0xf02696b4) at ../../ufs/ffs/ffs_vfsops.c:819 #7 0xf0133fbb in sync (p=0xf02696b4, uap=0x0, retval=0x0) at ../../kern/vfs_syscalls.c:363 #8 0xf011356d in boot (howto=256) at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:199 #9 0xf0113972 in panic (fmt=0xf016be01 "fr_tcpsum(3): not enough data") at ../../kern/kern_shutdown.c:400 #10 0xf016bf21 in fr_tcpsum (m=0xf3045200, ip=0xf3045220, tcp=0xf3045234, len=2) at ../../netinet/fil.c:1062 #11 0xf016f625 in ap_check (ip=0xf3045220, fin=0xf0224eac, nat=0xf4e19880) at ../../netinet/ip_proxy.c:229 #12 0xf016d5fc in ip_natout (ip=0xf3045220, hlen=20, fin=0xf0224eac) at ../../netinet/ip_nat.c:1155 #13 0xf016bb86 in fr_check (ip=0xf3045220, hlen=20, ifp=0xf0268088, out=1, mp=0xf0224f38) at ../../netinet/fil.c:764 #14 0xf0162d76 in ip_output (m0=0xf3045200, opt=0x0, ro=0xf025867c, flags=1, imo=0x0) at ../../netinet/ip_output.c:392 #15 0xf01625a3 in ip_forward (m=0xf3045200, srcrt=0) at ../../netinet/ip_input.c:1428 #16 0xf016165e in ip_input (m=0xf3045200) at ../../netinet/ip_input.c:507 #17 0xf0161994 in ipintr () at ../../netinet/ip_input.c:651 I use lastest tx2 based Gygabyte motherboard P100/1x64Mb dimm/aha2940uw. dmesg output, kernel-config , ipnal -l output attached in this letter. In private e-mail I can send ipf config. -- Best wishes, Eugeny Kuzakov Laboratory 321 ( Omsk, Russia ) kev@lab321.ru ICQ#: 5885106 --0-734564153-912847403=:5898 Content-Type: APPLICATION/octet-stream; name="dmesg.gz" Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="dmesg.gz" H4sICH3uaDYAA2RtZXNnAIVWW3PaOBR+Xv+KM9mXZIaLJF/xJJklBlp2S8OG 0O2rsAVoY2xXlknor98jGwghbTcETSKd7zv3I0V5sVNytdZwGV8B7fVYG5cA RkqIu9kAxlncsaIzoYC1zOrVa8+sPVqvtvXb41rAg1iJTJeQL0Hjv/NMboUq pd6ZnYincpmrTPIOQD9NoWYuQYlSqK1IOpZ1UM46rBO0H4afhv3ZEH4nIZol YSBiAAeoF7r4S+B+ZlQHFuDPk9j+kfKFzWhHVWG3KlW3VHG33JXdON8UMhVd WSxlqoWyouk8hCkaKqtNd+o6EVxSQjrMbk8+fgc38NpxyssSUO4Kye/RTpnB DVx8EFklMzHOtEgvAMYJbpIXl3kAMy2KQmarGw8RI8F1hW7dkBe6WF6PpvPW l8mwNRi2prNh63EWtSazh9YkGrair8GtpQRPYSM2udoBMno+JUHgOXDpua7t /QWLnRbllcW3XB7lUIz5jBEnQDHKXHYUm6p8gYYAhhoSsZWxwHxkMI3GsKhK IKEVr2VB4Lp2AwLm2L3Hr/V5zGPM2l5DnGda5Wkq1C2maAvUsBSxJCF+ag76 ymH7tH9nONrjWR8WSiYrcQ7z9zB2DhsPhiBxRy15/AMUrVH2OWo+u3uPwg1I QKpvQN0TClZTOO/szZ+Fgg3P+EpssB5+4bMf2hZfxxi2fsILjZXIeg6BeaoV h1k0G8M6LzXw+nCPJrU5vDHnlSrAOBiqELiM/SAg8I9MBERrnmUibTVs4+TG x87yusx1ceeubLQ/c6kPyS3jUh4zrHMohdap2FNrrlZCowmPfLUSCfxdicoA B7W8dVlL4ecqhIvR/M/x42wOk35kkx6dTYFQQi9A7wqBDEv5ggS1VcwqE3KK HUglYt3ux2hDCYHPvMkddpMf+NQjBFzK6rJE22KdK6zOM/yz1GsIvB6FeJeW 6DCBteAJ/sWzBL/AcYBgdoAR90DSxZDHT2/9tH/pp934ORlHD/dTcGyHfp7B 1GG9n/lIT3FvfbQx7cbHgPjExSb9kYtv4LWLTkD/10Xq+WcuLl9e+3SIA1UN XwpljMAeR54uTq275iATuqk5dlpz5FhzPaw5wxYexbFUk5qLkJCTMO6FziJc uGHAfjZBzESvu7sqQ6vEYuRYXy8eaeOybBQasU1uNCxyrhIjFcKXD31srBTJ rqkHW6l0hfMOW63MU4FhWKZ8ZUYlubVKme9p7WXQNmtD7BhiWfJaIGySRnE6 kr7ZoQ2E1RC2h9gnEPoOwvZaRK1FNBD3BMLeQey9lhrC9pDeCcR+C0kLffDF r7X4DcQ/QIxACCa7SlWFbicKb0vMV640nuHRYzTtjqc4lQu+SMXrsLOKmJPz UJs9vNUiKAvBn3Cs8SqROdSkylom8TGwpA6sXxvjocA3LJq9SUYM79rx6B5E ZpQmLQiaiwXTj+WyztMEpVCIdhwH+8DuuDKzno/0tKane3rqNNnFA06WS/M9 qHquVVWZNEPqkmteSGyW62jQfrifQDSYu5R2aYf8e9vCwt7kW2MO9gx2Ic7I ZMNbIHOVyNLKihdyVPOuBM0pRvnzI+blJIRNU+0fATAiZISljmNdG5dlVmqe pqYHnnP1xFVeZYmFqRjVD4gQBXAM43PmO75aAGfNklepxju5MM8GRLbgU75a GfzNIZDWf/2ud6RxCQAA --0-734564153-912847403=:5898 Content-Type: APPLICATION/octet-stream; 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name="ipnat.gz" Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ipnat.gz" H4sICJzxaDYAA2lwbmF0AK2U326bMBTGr+OnOJeblBgDCWW5mNTLSqtUtXsB F0yxRmzPNiW52bPPdsIS8pdqJcKKON/348PH9g9uLMgKaGH5O4PH+6fomZVc s8JCxRvLtFmiFVWglCIQf0twnOU4wyRK5gCz7/457u90HqUJgNJyvQEltUNY 5e/IFurDFOf3lrZUMCfuWmZ+/CDmUJ4G+d1/Zh9FuZ19BOZUnn9K9huUsdmv Yk7bFJNPWTS3MGNXzXUO0qWGah30C5zETp/mOI19LWTMiTcOi/8qPvhZQJJf AST5eYAf8H7IFkeMk/qlHP12SY4Jh6Wb5uyyOTtvdjPtfxEZlXrnRl3NNEPg rv4Na7yGGaw2wIU7lwRtQDDbSf3LBNmwi07p/gAtNTMGrPS+h5enoAypvsTk 8fVrTV2xkzvdEk1Oc4VXWt0yJ9rSpABmXTz3+m2WihYMTfYzEZN4MkxKG04v GX0kRJsGZGvfZMvFG9TW7QGraVXxwrv6idO7szl8kfnd8nK7cTA67OF00JPZ PkXHXsEw/e5OdTC1bJsShLSg6HaKAgoNF/X0aInOwMgV6ylT6Gpe1IHiOwGF 1D5fs4GO29p/gjCKaibsjo5++r6CewR/FgRWtKi5YMZl7LuJ0V9JBoHilQYA AA== --0-734564153-912847403=:5898-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 5 08:24:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA19085 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:24:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from funbox.demon.co.uk (funbox.demon.co.uk [158.152.85.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA19080 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:24:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tj-fbsd@funbox.demon.co.uk) From: tj-fbsd@funbox.demon.co.uk Received: by funbox.demon.co.uk (mail 1.50) id tim.36695B93.00.11A7; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 16:13:07 +0000 Message-ID: To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 15:54:17 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Sysconfig, or, the SysV vs. BSD init wars Lines: 29 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brian Cully wrote: > I've spent the last few weeks working on and off on a replacement for > /etc/rc, and given the recent traffic regarding such, I figured now's > a good time to tell the world. > > The program itself, sysconfig (probably should be called sysinit, > given it's functionality), should be called from init instead of > /etc/rc, and sysconfig reads it's data out of /etc/system (or > something). The syntax of the file looks like this: [...] > I'd really like feedback on this It looks as if you've put a fair amount of thought, and work, into this. However, I find myself thinking that shell scripts (or a monolithic script) are very flexible, easy to alter and to check, and more than adequate for the job. For my part, I don't see the necessity (or, I'm afraid, the desirability) for changing from script(s). Of course, one of the attractions of Unix is that one can do one's own thing (tm :)... but my vote is for the shell script. Tim (who seems to be a neo-traditionalist at heart) -- Tim Jackson London, England. ________________________________________________________________________ Please reply to t j @ f u n b o x . d e m o n . c o . u k To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 5 08:40:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA20711 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:40:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lab321.ru (anonymous1.omsk.net.ru [62.76.128.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA20549 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:39:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kev@lab321.ru) Received: from www.lab321.ru (kev@www.lab321.ru [62.76.129.65]) by lab321.ru (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id WAA01906 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 22:37:30 +0600 (OS) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 22:37:30 +0600 (OS) From: Eugeny Kuzakov To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.8&ipfilter 3.2.10 panics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 5 Dec 1998, Eugeny Kuzakov wrote: > > I use -stable cvsuped at 30-Nov-1998 and kernel compiled ipfilter 3.2.10. > My fbsd box dynamically reconfigure ipf and ipnat after up/down any ppp > connection. Now trying to compile 3.2.7 as kernel module... -- Best wishes, Eugeny Kuzakov Laboratory 321 ( Omsk, Russia ) kev@lab321.ru ICQ#: 5885106 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 5 09:18:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA23143 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 09:18:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from o2.cs.rpi.edu (o2.cs.rpi.edu [128.113.96.156]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA23138 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 09:18:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from crossd@o2.cs.rpi.edu) Received: from localhost (crossd@localhost) by o2.cs.rpi.edu (980427.SGI.8.8.8/980728.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA45200 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 12:18:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 12:18:07 -0500 From: "David E. Cross" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Control-Alt-Delete Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Where/how does FreeBSD handle CAD? I know that pressing the 3 finger salute will trigger a clean reboot on my system, but I don't know the execution path. -- David Cross To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 5 10:04:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA26770 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 10:04:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from orbit.flnet.com (orbit.flnet.com [205.240.232.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA26764 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 10:04:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from henrich@orbit.flnet.com) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by orbit.flnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.4) id NAA10162; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 13:04:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19981205100451.10207@orbit.flnet.com> Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 10:04:51 -0800 From: Charles Henrich To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Large memory size per process? Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-BETA_A X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1024/F7 FD C7 3A F5 6A 23 BF 76 C4 B8 C9 6E 41 A4 4F Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG When compiling a kernel with 2GB for the max DSIZ we get integer overflows all over the place. At 1.5GB we only get one in the elf loader, and it seems to work okay set that way. 2GB I get all sorts of overflows in the vm subsystem and havent tried to run that way. Due to this Im assuming that its impossible to get large processes in FreeBSD without some major work, is this true? -Crh Charles Henrich Manex Visual Effects henrich@flnet.com http://orbit.flnet.com/~henrich To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 5 10:05:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27007 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 10:05:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA27001 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 10:05:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA75540; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 12:05:04 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 12:05:03 -0600 From: Dan Nelson To: "David E. Cross" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Control-Alt-Delete Message-ID: <19981205120503.A72564@emsphone.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.94.3i In-Reply-To: ; from "David E. Cross" on Sat Dec 5 12:18:07 GMT 1998 X-OS: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the last episode (Dec 05), David E. Cross said: > Where/how does FreeBSD handle CAD? I know that pressing the 3 finger > salute will trigger a clean reboot on my system, but I don't know the > execution path. C-A-D's default keyboard mapping is "boot", which is handled around line 3700 on a -current copy of syscons.c (case RBT). It can be disabled with "options SC_DISABLE_REBOOT" in your kernel config file, or by editing the keyboard map and removing all the "boot" entries. -Dan Nelson dnelson@emsphone.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 5 10:37:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA29549 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 10:37:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA29544 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 10:37:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from chronias.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.57.11]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA588; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 19:37:12 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <17086.912818460@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 19:42:38 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh Subject: Re: BSDi IPv6 (was: Re: Can we just come to a decision on IPv6 a Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Christopher Nielsen Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 05-Dec-98 Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh wrote: > >>> For the rest the set-up and configuring was a breeze just when it came to >>> userland tool flags it's confusing to use -ipv6 one time and -ip6 the next. >>> Hope this sort of thing can be avoided or standardized under FreeBSD... >>I think the goal is transparency to the user, i.e., use IPv6 when possible >>and IPv4 when necessary. Although, there will probably be cases where >>people will want to make this selection manually. > I agree that options should be standardized among userland tools. > KAME is trying to use "-inet6", "inet6" or "-6" for this. Aye, that would most certainly make it easier in use... How will it display the addresses though? BSDi followed this simple structure: #ifconfig -a IPv4: blahblah IPv6: blahblah --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven/Asmodai asmodai(at)wxs.nl | Cum angelis et pueris, Junior Network/Security Specialist | fideles inveniamur *BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 5 15:02:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA21421 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 15:02:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (fep1-orange.clear.net.nz [203.97.32.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA21416 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 15:02:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jabley@buddha.clear.net.nz) Received: from buddha.clear.net.nz (buddha.clear.net.nz [192.168.24.106]) by fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (1.5/1.11) with ESMTP id MAA13240; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 12:01:23 +1300 (NZDT) Received: (from jabley@localhost) by buddha.clear.net.nz (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA09146; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 12:01:05 +1300 (NZDT) Message-ID: <19981206120105.A9111@clear.co.nz> Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 12:01:05 +1300 From: Joe Abley To: Nate Williams , Ruslan Ermilov Cc: Thomas David Rivers , eischen@vigrid.com, dillon@apollo.backplane.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, jabley@clear.co.nz Subject: Re: TCP bug References: <199812021636.JAA06068@mt.sri.com> <199812021647.LAA09094@lakes.dignus.com> <19981202185808.A4604@ucb.crimea.ua> <199812021720.KAA06413@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199812021720.KAA06413@mt.sri.com>; from Nate Williams on Wed, Dec 02, 1998 at 10:20:54AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Dec 02, 1998 at 10:20:54AM -0700, Nate Williams wrote: > > Some sites block ICMP and thus break PMTU discovery. > > Umm, if this is the case, why would we be having a problem with a > network segment with a smaller MTU not being able to send packets to a > network with a bigger MTU? You don't. You have a problem with inbound packets larger than your local MTU with the DF (do-not-fragment) bit sent. You should find you are sending packets out just fine; however your router is dropping inbound packets sized larger than the MTU. This is what it should do. Nothing broken at your end. However, to make the problem go away you either have to (a) fix all the sites on the intenet which presume an MTU of 1500 or greater, or (b) install a workaround. Changing your local MTU to 1500 is probably the easiest workaround. > It would seem to me that the small MTU > network connection would be the one having the problems, not the larger > MTU network connection. You're right. You're just not thinking four-dimensionally :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 5 16:33:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA01256 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 16:33:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01042; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 16:33:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id QAA11755; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 16:32:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com( 207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V2.0) id xma011753; Sat, 5 Dec 98 16:32:44 -0800 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA01400; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 16:32:44 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199812060032.QAA01400@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: getting to -Wunused To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, cvs-committers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 16:32:44 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, It looks like the next kernel compilation -W flag to be slayed is the "-Wunused" flag (see bsd.kern.mk).. right now, compiling LINT with this flag yeilds about 350 unused variable or function warnings. These warnings break down into several cases: (a) Variables (and a couple of goto labels) that are defined but simply never referenced within their scope. (b) Variables and static functions that are defined, but only referenced conditionally (ie, #ifdef some macro) within their scope (c) Static functions that are declared but never defined (ie, static function prototype at the top of the file but no corresponding function anywhere in the file). (d) Static functions that are declared and defined, but never used: (i) Some of these are defined #ifdef DDB, and are clearly meant for debugging purposes (they're not used, but they're handy to call from the debugger to print out stuff, etc). These are "legitimate" unused functions. (ii) The rest seem to be left-over cruft that should be removed (but this job is best left to the maintainer of that code). My proposal is to tackle these warnings in several steps.. Step #1. The "easy" stuff first: - Fix all (a) cases by removing the declaration. - Fix all (b) cases by making the declaration subject to the same #ifdef (or commenting out) as the use (sometimes this means relocating the declaration to an inner block). - Fix all (c) cases by removing the useless declaration. NOTE: this does *not* include variables initialized with a value that's the result of some function call (which could have side effects), nor variables meant to server as marks in the data segment, such as sys/ufs/mfs/mfs_vfsops.c:end_mfs_root. Step #2. Add "__attribute__ ((unused))" to all cases of (d)(i), that is, obviously legitimate unused functions (I count only 2 so far). Step #3. Turn on -Wunused in bsd.kern.mk so everybody can participate :-) Step #4. Let any remaining warnings be handled by their respective maintainers. Note that Steps #1 and #2 will *not* eliminate all the unused variable warnings, because I can't do a kernel compile with every possible permutation of kernel options.. but it should get most of them. Step #2 (later!) will be a very small patch. I plan to commit patches for step #1 in a couple of days if there's no fears/complaints... these are available for review here: ftp://ftp.whistle.com/pub/archie/misc/PATCH.unused There are 112 files affected. COMMITTERS: if you are afraid of something getting screwed up by Step #1, please review the patch for the file(s) you're interested in. Thanks, -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 5 16:47:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA02028 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 16:47:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lorax.ubergeeks.com (lorax.ubergeeks.com [206.205.41.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA02023 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 16:47:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by lorax.ubergeeks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA04098; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 19:47:16 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from adrian@lorax.ubergeeks.com) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 19:47:16 -0500 (EST) From: ADRIAN Filipi-Martin Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: "David E. Cross" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Control-Alt-Delete In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 5 Dec 1998, David E. Cross wrote: > Where/how does FreeBSD handle CAD? I know that pressing the 3 finger > salute will trigger a clean reboot on my system, but I don't know the > execution path. > > -- > David Cross Look at kbdcontrol(1). You can dump the keybindings from syscons and/or load your own version. You can reassign ctl-alt-del to nop, if you like. What the key combination does is determined by the console driver. In this case it invokes the "boot" action. Please post this type of question to freebsd-questions@free.... instead of the hackers list in the future. Adrian -- [ adrian@ubergeeks.com -- Ubergeeks Consulting -- http://www.ubergeeks.com/ ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Dec 5 21:46:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA22150 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 21:46:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from firewall.reed.wattle.id.au (darren2.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.53.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA22141 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 21:46:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from darrenr@reed.wattle.id.au) Received: (from root@localhost) by firewall.reed.wattle.id.au (8.9.1/8.8.7) id FAA17275; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 05:45:49 GMT Received: from avalon.reed.wattle.id.au(192.168.1.1) by firewall.reed.wattle.id.au via smap (V1.3) id sma017272; Sun Dec 6 05:45:45 1998 Received: from percival.reed.wattle.id.au. (percival.reed.wattle.id.au [192.168.1.5]) by avalon.reed.wattle.id.au (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.Beta3) with SMTP id QAA09692; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 16:44:39 +1100 (EST) From: Darren Reed Message-Id: <199812060544.QAA09692@avalon.reed.wattle.id.au> Subject: Re: 2.2.8&ipfilter 3.2.10 panics To: kev@lab321.ru (Eugeny Kuzakov) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 16:44:39 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, darrenr@pobox.com In-Reply-To: from "Eugeny Kuzakov" at Dec 5, 98 02:43:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There's a patch recently posted to the IP Filter mailling list which uses in_cksum() inside of fr_tcpsum() and solves this problem. Darren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message