From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Aug 23 00:01:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA06644 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 00:01:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rascal (ts46-10.tor.istar.ca [204.191.148.185]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA06633 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 00:01:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mpoulin@honk.org) Received: from honk.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rascal (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA03513 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 02:54:17 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mpoulin@honk.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980821214713.00697ad0@pop.netaddress.com> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 02:54:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Marty Poulin To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: StarOffice & wordperfect Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Just to add to the discussion here - has anyone had any experience using Star Office on FreeBSD? I have heard some rumours that it is not very reliable. I would like to try it, but I'm a little hesitant after listening to some of the buzz out there. Also, I have to keep disk space in mind - anyone know how much room Star Office needs? (Please forgive me if this borders on -questions; I'm just trying to get some opinions, not hard answers) On 22-Aug-98 kevink@mindless.com wrote: > Have you tried Star Office? there is a port for it in /usr/ports/editors > I'm not totally sure if it handles wordperfect docs, but I think it does. > Does anyone else know? > > At 11:21 AM 8/22/98 -0600, you wrote: >>Marty Poulin wrote: >> >>Duke here. I've been browsing/lurcking the list for a long time, >>and this question is one near and dear. I'd _love_ to trash $ms for >>good but one little problem prevents: I've got to send WordPerfect >>compatible documents to my printing/client pick up/pay the bill >>contact in Anchorage, and not infrequently send completed work to >>clients ranging from California to New York. >> >>I'm aware of the Corel Suite for X, which has a whole lot more >>than I want to pay for in order to merely produce typeset >>documents. >> >>Any suggestions would be appreciated. Oh. I'm running 2.2.6-RELEASE >>on a 4G, DOS/w95 on a 514M. >> >>ML Duke >> > > ------------- > gekk0@usa.net > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Marty Poulin Date: 23-Aug-98 Time: 02:46:44 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Aug 23 00:06:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA07111 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 00:06:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from po9.andrew.cmu.edu (PO9.ANDREW.CMU.EDU [128.2.10.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA07106 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 00:06:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tcrimi+@andrew.cmu.edu) Received: (from postman@localhost) by po9.andrew.cmu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.2) id DAA18076 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 03:06:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 03:06:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unix14.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 03:04:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unix14.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 03:04:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mms.4.60.Jun.27.1996.03.02.53.sun4.51.EzMail.2.0.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.unix14.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4m.54 via MS.5.6.unix14.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4_51; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 03:04:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 03:04:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Valentino Crimi To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: 3Com 3C509B Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm installing FBSD with this card and am noticing that at random intervals during download, the x-fer freezes up and will only unfreeze with: ifconfig ep0 down ifconfig ep0 up I disabled all non-present hardware to eliminate probe-error, what could be doing this, and most importantly, will this affect future operation and whta can I do to fix it? ;) Thanks for the great availability of help. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Aug 23 04:00:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA25370 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 04:00:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.austasia.net (ausns1.austasia.net [203.23.167.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA25306 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 04:00:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from beatteam@austasia.net) Message-Id: <199808231100.EAA25306@hub.freebsd.org> Received: (qmail 12132 invoked from network); 23 Aug 1998 10:59:56 -0000 Received: from ppp06.melbourne.austasia.net (HELO pc00) (@203.23.160.106) by ausns1.austasia.net with SMTP; 23 Aug 1998 10:59:56 -0000 Reply-To: From: "Brett Gray" To: "Freebsd Newbies List" Subject: Getting 3 errors ...please help... Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 20:58:48 +1000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org From: Brett Gray To: Freebsd Newbies List Subject: Getting 3 errors ...please help... Date: Saturday, 22 August 1998 18:53 Hi All, I have set up several versions of freeBSD in the past, and have had no problems.... but I have set just up a machine for a friend and am getting the following messages repeated every few seconds.... Could Someone please tell me what they mean? Aug 22 18:42:38 mail /kernel: spec_getpages: I/O read error Aug 22 18:42:38 mail /kernel: vm_fault: pager input (probably hardware) error, PID 197 failure Aug 22 18:42:38 mail /kernel: pid 197 (date), uid 0: exited on signal 11 (core dumped) Any Help would be appreciated..... Thank you, Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Aug 23 04:16:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA28679 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 04:16:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from EventHorizon.STARDreams.org (maccess-01-055.magna.com.au [203.111.85.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA28667 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 04:16:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kevla@studentmail.dis.unimelb.edu.au) Received: from EventHorizon (EventHorizon.STARDreams.org [10.144.144.1]) by EventHorizon.STARDreams.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with SMTP id 278; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:15:45 +1000 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980823211529.0095b5f0@studentmail.dis.unimelb.edu.au> X-Sender: kevla@studentmail.dis.unimelb.edu.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:15:29 +1000 To: , "Freebsd Newbies List" From: Kevin Lam Subject: Re: Getting 3 errors ...please help... In-Reply-To: <199808231100.EAA25306@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 20:58 8/23/98 +1000, Brett Gray wrote: >Could Someone please tell me what they mean? >Aug 22 18:42:38 mail /kernel: spec_getpages: I/O read error >Aug 22 18:42:38 mail /kernel: vm_fault: pager input (probably hardware) >error, PID 197 failure >Aug 22 18:42:38 mail /kernel: pid 197 (date), uid 0: exited on signal 11 >(core dumped) I was once running FreeBSD on a known defective disk (just to try and get it started), and it kept throwing me this error (mine was PID 1 though, during system startup), as well as read retry attempts on the hard disk. I suspect it has something to do with FreeBSD attempting to read from swap, but is encountering bad blocks on the hard disk. -- Kevin Lam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Aug 23 04:38:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA01808 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 04:38:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from staff.cs.usyd.edu.au (staff.cs.usyd.edu.au [129.78.8.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA01798 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 04:38:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mhenry@white.ug.cs.usyd.edu.au) Message-Id: <199808231138.EAA01798@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Tip #1 of the day :-) To: malartre@aei.ca (Malartre) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 20:02:20 +1000 (EST) From: "Michael Henry" Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <35DE300F.FB2B4901@aei.ca> from "Malartre" at Aug 21, 98 10:42:24 pm Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > If you want than your command start in the background, add a " &" at the > end. Exemple: > You want to start Xfree86 but dont want it to use one of your precious > terminal. > --- > startx & > --- What's the point? Once you have X started you can have as many terminals as you want. (xterms, that is). > Then, you find than there is only 2 xterm and a login in your Xwindow. > So, if you type "xterm" alone in one of the xterm, it will start another > xterm, but the previous one will not be useable! > The solution is to start the xterm in background in xwindow: > --- > xterm & > --- Netscape is a good example of a program you'd want to start in the background. > -- > [Malartre][malartre@aei.ca][http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/] > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Aug 23 05:06:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA06481 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 05:06:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.austasia.net (ausns1.austasia.net [203.23.167.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA06448 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 05:05:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from beatteam@austasia.net) Message-Id: <199808231205.FAA06448@hub.freebsd.org> Received: (qmail 17776 invoked from network); 23 Aug 1998 12:05:08 -0000 Received: from ppp06.melbourne.austasia.net (HELO pc00) (@203.23.160.106) by ausns1.austasia.net with SMTP; 23 Aug 1998 12:05:08 -0000 Reply-To: From: "Brett Gray" To: "Freebsd Newbies List" Subject: Getting 3 errors ...More info Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 22:03:58 +1000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I wasn't very specific when I sen the last message..... > Could Someone please tell me what they mean? I can have a go at fixing the problems myself if I know what they mean... If some one knows please let me know where to start looking. The box is a 486SX-33 with 8mb RAM, 250Mb IDE HDD, 2 Serial Ports (16550), NIC, 33kbps Ext modem, running FreeBSD 2.2.2 (cause I have it on CDROM) I have successfully setup about 5 FreeBSD Boxes as routers, gateways, fax servers, mail servers etc. in the past with no problems. But these messages have got me stumped! > Aug 22 18:42:38 mail /kernel: spec_getpages: I/O read error > Aug 22 18:42:38 mail /kernel: vm_fault: pager input (probably hardware) > error, PID 197 failure > Aug 22 18:42:38 mail /kernel: pid 197 (date), uid 0: exited on signal 11 > (core dumped) Thanks Again, Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Aug 23 07:23:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA21828 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 07:23:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mercury.webnology.com (mercury.webnology.com [209.155.51.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA21817 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 07:23:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jooji@webnology.com) Received: from localhost (jooji@localhost) by mercury.webnology.com (8.9.0/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA13976 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:27:21 -0500 Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:27:21 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jasper O'Malley" To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3Com 3C509B In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 23 Aug 1998, Thomas Valentino Crimi wrote: > > I'm installing FBSD with this card and am noticing that at random > intervals during download, the x-fer freezes up and will only unfreeze > with: > > ifconfig ep0 down > ifconfig ep0 up Don't use the ep driver, use the new xl driver instead. Cheers, Mick The Reverend Jasper P. O'Malley dotdot:jooji@webnology.com Systems Administrator ringring:asktheadmiral Webnology, LLC woowoo:http://www.webnology.com/~jooji To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Aug 23 09:31:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA01218 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:31:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA01213 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:31:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (pm04-09.aei.ca [206.123.6.184]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA27547; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 12:30:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35E043BB.504E896B@aei.ca> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 12:30:51 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Henry CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Tip #1 of the day :-) References: <199808231138.EAA01798@hub.freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Michael Henry wrote: > > > > > If you want than your command start in the background, add a " &" at the > > end. Exemple: > > You want to start Xfree86 but dont want it to use one of your precious > > terminal. > > --- > > startx & > > --- > > What's the point? Once you have X started you can have as many terminals as > you want. (xterms, that is). > I was joking: but who want to load 50 terminal? I dont do all my job under X. Anyway, it was only for showing what you can do. Any other tips :-) -- [Malartre][malartre@aei.ca][http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Aug 23 09:38:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA01703 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:38:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [206.173.118.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA01697 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:38:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mlduke@concentric.net) Received: from mcfeely.concentric.net (mcfeely [206.173.118.83]) by darius.concentric.net (8.8.8/(98/08/04 5.11)) id MAA10409; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 12:37:56 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from default (ts001d16.mer-id.concentric.net [206.173.184.28]) by mcfeely.concentric.net (8.8.8) id MAA14618; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 12:37:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35E0468F.3DD9@concentric.net> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:42:55 -0600 From: ML Duke Reply-To: mlduke@concentric.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marty Poulin CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: StarOffice & wordperfect References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Marty Poulin wrote: > > Just to add to the discussion here - has anyone had any experience using > Star Office on FreeBSD? In my personal experience its a German incarnation of word and a resource hog. It does have some power, but English help files I managed to find not at all. Finally just deleted it. Duke To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Aug 23 10:58:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA08285 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:58:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from papaya.mail.easynet.net (papaya.mail.easynet.net [195.40.1.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA08278 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:58:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andrew@boothman.easynet.co.uk) Received: (qmail 27132 invoked from network); 23 Aug 1998 17:58:08 -0000 Received: from boothman.easynet.co.uk (194.154.100.117) by papaya.mail.easynet.net with SMTP; 23 Aug 1998 17:58:08 -0000 Received: by Boothman.easynet.co.uk (VPOP3 - Unregistered) with SMTP; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 18:41:14 +0100 Message-ID: <35E0543A.1B62B41F@boothman.easynet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 18:41:14 +0100 From: Andrew Boothman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Malartre CC: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: Re: URL and Opinions on how to really learn something References: <35DC550F.3E76A4F3@aei.ca> <19980821082608.23489@welearn.com.au> <35DCD40B.65EB9E16@aei.ca> <19980822130641.39256@welearn.com.au> <35DE3DA3.8BF49288@aei.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Server: VPOP3 V1.2.0d Unregistered Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Malartre wrote: > > http://www.geek-girl.com/Unixhelp/get_source.html The primary address for that site is http://unixhelp.ed.ac.uk -- Andrew Boothman http://www.boothman.easynet.co.uk/andrew/ PGP Key available from public servers ICQ ID:17526634 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Aug 23 10:59:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA08308 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:59:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from papaya.mail.easynet.net (papaya.mail.easynet.net [195.40.1.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA08279 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:58:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andrew@boothman.easynet.co.uk) Received: (qmail 27145 invoked from network); 23 Aug 1998 17:58:09 -0000 Received: from boothman.easynet.co.uk (194.154.100.117) by papaya.mail.easynet.net with SMTP; 23 Aug 1998 17:58:09 -0000 Received: by Boothman.easynet.co.uk (VPOP3 - Unregistered) with SMTP; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 18:54:24 +0100 Message-ID: <35E05750.9829F875@boothman.easynet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 18:54:24 +0100 From: Andrew Boothman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: conrads@neosoft.com CC: "G.R. Gaudreau" , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Ports (was: FreeBSD main platform & Linux) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Server: VPOP3 V1.2.0d Unregistered Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Conrad Sabatier wrote: > > For some real fun, try telnetting to machines using some of these port numbers. > For instance, you can telnet into a news server using "telnet host 119" and > actually issue NNTP protocol commands and see what the server does. Port 25 > (and the proper remote host) will get you access to a system's mail server. > > Toys for geeks, you know. :-) But something that can actually be quite useful. I sometimes used to read my home e-mail from school by telnet-ing into my ISPs mail server. I wrote a web page on this :- http://www.boothman.easynet.co.uk/andrew/info/telmail.html -- Andrew Boothman http://www.boothman.easynet.co.uk/andrew/ PGP Key available from public servers ICQ ID:17526634 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Aug 23 11:26:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA10257 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 11:26:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from info1.info.tampere.fi (info1.info.tampere.fi [212.63.6.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA10252 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 11:26:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lmkjuksi@info1.info.tampere.fi) Received: from info1.info.tampere.fi (pc061.soitto.info.tampere.fi [212.63.8.61]) by info1.info.tampere.fi (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA12123; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:25:26 +0300 (EET DST) Message-ID: <35E05F80.56EABEBF@info1.info.tampere.fi> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:29:20 +0300 From: "Jukka Similä" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Malartre CC: Michael Henry , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Tip #1 of the day :-) References: <199808231138.EAA01798@hub.freebsd.org> <35E043BB.504E896B@aei.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Malartre wrote: > > Michael Henry wrote: > > > > > > > > If you want than your command start in the background, add a " &" at the > > > end. Exemple: > > > You want to start Xfree86 but dont want it to use one of your precious > > > terminal. > > > --- > > > startx & > > > --- > > > > What's the point? Once you have X started you can have as many terminals as > > you want. (xterms, that is). If you want to use virtual terminals (or whatever they are called), Alt+F1, Alt+F2, Alt+F3, Alt+F4 when you are in text mode and Ctrl+Alt+F? under X. Alt+F4 switches to X if you have it running. If you have started X with startx from ttyv0 (Alt+F1), that means it's unuseable until X is killed. If you started X background, like startx&, then ttyv0 is available. It's very nice to switch from graphics mode to text mode with Ctrl+Alt+F? when you need 25 (or 24) line mode. > > > I was joking: but who want to load 50 terminal? > I dont do all my job under X. Anyway, it was only for showing what you > can do. > Any other tips :-) > -- Jukka Similä To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Aug 23 16:07:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA04830 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 16:07:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA04814 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 16:06:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27120; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:06:36 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19980823140636.47050@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:06:36 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Allen Campbell , "G.R. Gaudreau" Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD main platform & Linux References: <3.0.1.32.19980821053638.0068ea4c@pop.netaddress.com> <3.0.5.32.19980822074143.007a1aa0@pop3.sprint.ca> <35DF04FB.518BF15@verinet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <35DF04FB.518BF15@verinet.com>; from Allen Campbell on Sat, Aug 22, 1998 at 11:50:51AM -0600 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Aug 22, 1998 at 11:50:51AM -0600, Allen Campbell wrote: > Also, I might have to promote this box to a Linux server when Oracle > for Linux makes its debut, unless FreeBSD's Linux emulation handles it > well. As I understand it, Oracle have "Oracle for FreeBSD" working already. Oracle's network computer division () uses FreeBSD as the OS, and their network computers run Oracle. I *believe* that they aren't releasing it because they don't know whether or not there's demand (and don't want to commit the sort of resources necessary for supporting it without knowing this). Contacting your Oracle rep. and telling him/her that there is demand for it can only help the situation. N -- Work: nik@iii.co.uk | FreeBSD + Perl + Apache Rest: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk | Remind me again why we need Play: nik@freebsd.org | Microsoft? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Aug 23 16:11:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA05224 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 16:11:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA05206 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 16:11:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA26727; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:03:26 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19980823140326.29924@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:03:26 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: mlduke@concentric.net, Marty Poulin Cc: kevink@mindless.com, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: main platform? References: <35DEFE23.7EBA@concentric.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <35DEFE23.7EBA@concentric.net>; from ML Duke on Sat, Aug 22, 1998 at 11:21:39AM -0600 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Aug 22, 1998 at 11:21:39AM -0600, ML Duke wrote: > I'd _love_ to trash $ms for > good but one little problem prevents: I've got to send WordPerfect > compatible documents I understand that WordPerfect for Linux works with no problems under FreeBSD's Linux compatibility. N -- Work: nik@iii.co.uk | FreeBSD + Perl + Apache Rest: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk | Remind me again why we need Play: nik@freebsd.org | Microsoft? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 24 05:54:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA21458 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 05:54:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de (gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de [194.163.242.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA21445 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 05:54:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de) Received: from duffner.konstanz.netsurf.de (surf88.konstanz.netsurf.de [194.163.242.88]) by gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA27043; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:53:51 +0200 Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:24:32 +0200 (MESZ) From: Rainer M Duffner Subject: Re: StarOffice & wordperfect To: ML Duke cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <35E0468F.3DD9@concentric.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: enigma, http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~enigma X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun 23 Aug, ML Duke wrote: > Marty Poulin wrote: > > > > Just to add to the discussion here - has anyone had any experience using > > Star Office on FreeBSD? > > In my personal experience its a German incarnation of word HeHeHe....;-) Well, 'the market' seems to like those overgrown, mainframe-like applications. The 'do everything in one place'-philosophy of StarOffice is of course somewhat contrary to the one Unix in general follows (have one program do only one thing at a time). Obviously, as you use FreeBSD, you're not really part of that 'market'. Applixware will have a native FreeBSD version sometime in the future, though and will follow the 'Unix Style Guides' more closely. > and a resource hog. It started working after I had 64 MB, so this might be true somehow. > It does have some power, but English help files I managed to find not > at all. Have you installed the '01'-version or the '49'-version. They have international versions, though I have never tried them, for obvious reasons.... > Finally just deleted it. I installed it only to 'see' it and know if and how it works. I don't see it as a 'killer-app', nor would I use/welcome the MS-Office-Suite, if there was a port to Linux/FreeBSD. BTW: SoftwareAG (http://www.sag.de) has ported DCOM to Linux ! It's called 'EntireX'...... (Bleeaaaachhh) cheers, Rainer -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |Rainer Duffner, E-Mail: duffner@fh-konstanz.de | | & Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de | |Fachhochschule Konstanz, Germany | |"What's a Network ?" - Bill Gates, early 1980s | | WWW:http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~duffner | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 24 07:03:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA28895 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 07:03:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.cybcon.com (mail.cybcon.com [205.147.64.46]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA28890 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 07:03:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wwoods@cybcon.com) Received: from support1.cybcon.com (william@support1.cybcon.com [205.147.76.99]) by mail.cybcon.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id HAA22793; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 07:02:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 07:02:05 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: wwoods@cybcon.com From: William Woods To: Rainer M Duffner Subject: Re: StarOffice & wordperfect Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, ML Duke Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I installed it only to 'see' it and know if and how it works. > I don't see it as a 'killer-app', nor would I use/welcome the > MS-Office-Suite, if there was a port to Linux/FreeBSD. Well, I would both use and welcome a MS Office like program, for a couple reasons. Unlike a lot of people, I use FreeBSD not as a hobby system, but a work system. I need Word Processing, spread sheets, database and would greeatly welcome a program like Power Point. Personally, if they were integrated and worked together, great. IMHO, lack of everyday apps like these are holding FreeBSD back. StarOffice and Word Perfect, (I use both) are a welcome addition to the Unix world and fill a very big hole in needed apps. --------------------- William Woods Date: 24-Aug-98 / Time: 06:53:19 goto to: http//www.freebsd.org. --> FreeBSD 3.0 CURRENT <-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 24 07:54:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA05577 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 07:54:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA05503 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 07:54:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Received: from localhost (chrisc@localhost) by vnode.vmunix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA07486; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:53:00 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:52:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Coleman X-Sender: chrisc@vnode To: William Woods cc: Rainer M Duffner , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, ML Duke Subject: Re: StarOffice & wordperfect In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > I installed it only to 'see' it and know if and how it works. > > I don't see it as a 'killer-app', nor would I use/welcome the > > MS-Office-Suite, if there was a port to Linux/FreeBSD. > > Well, I would both use and welcome a MS Office like program, for a couple > reasons. Unlike a lot of people, I use FreeBSD not as a hobby system, but a > work system. I need Word Processing, spread sheets, database and would greeatly > welcome a program like Power Point. > > Personally, if they were integrated and worked together, great. IMHO, lack of > everyday apps like these are holding FreeBSD back. StarOffice and Word Perfect, > (I use both) are a welcome addition to the Unix world and fill a very big hole > in needed apps. I agree here completely. How else are we going to take machines back from Microsoft if we can't compete in the desktop arena? If Freebsd ran MS office, I wouldn't have to keep installing Win95/98 on all the desktop computers around here. -Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 24 08:38:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA12977 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:38:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (s205m64.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA12971 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:38:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id IAA18157; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:36:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:36:54 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199808241536.IAA18157@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: wwoods@cybcon.com Subject: Re: StarOffice & wordperfect Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 07:02:05 -0700 (PDT) >Reply-To: wwoods@cybcon.com >From: William Woods >> I installed it only to 'see' it and know if and how it works. >> I don't see it as a 'killer-app', nor would I use/welcome the >> MS-Office-Suite, if there was a port to Linux/FreeBSD. >Well, I would both use and welcome a MS Office like program, for a couple >reasons. Unlike a lot of people, I use FreeBSD not as a hobby system, but a >work system. I need Word Processing, spread sheets, database and would greeatly >welcome a program like Power Point. Interesting perspective. You see, I (also) only use FreeBSD at work -- but to me, that means I would have no use whatsoever for any MS-like stuff at all. >Personally, if they were integrated and worked together, great. IMHO, lack of >everyday apps like these are holding FreeBSD back. StarOffice and Word Perfect, >(I use both) are a welcome addition to the Unix world and fill a very big hole >in needed apps. If they're useful for you, great...! [I'll go ahead & Cc: -newbies on this, despite the Reply-To: header you had on your message to restrict replies only to you. -- dhw] david -- David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 24 09:33:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA22297 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 09:33:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.honk.org (honk.org [206.191.48.225]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA22283 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 09:32:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mpoulin@honk.org) Received: from sw47 ([207.219.2.170]) by mail.honk.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA00330 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:22:10 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980824123249.0090b3b0@honk.org> X-Sender: mpoulin@honk.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:32:49 -0400 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Martin Poulin Subject: Re: StarOffice & wordperfect In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:52 AM 8/24/98 -0400, Various People wrote: >> Well, I would both use and welcome a MS Office like program, for a couple >> reasons. Unlike a lot of people, I use FreeBSD not as a hobby system, but a >> work system. I need Word Processing, spread sheets, database and would greeatly >> welcome a program like Power Point. >> >> Personally, if they were integrated and worked together, great. IMHO, lack of >> everyday apps like these are holding FreeBSD back. StarOffice and Word Perfect, >> (I use both) are a welcome addition to the Unix world and fill a very big hole >> in needed apps. > Since you use both, how would you rate them? (eg. compared to each other, and to M$) I am mostly interested in finding a good wysiwyg word processor, and I really don't want to shell out hundreds of dollars if there is a free option for me. (hence my attempt to move away from the M$ world and into *FREE*BSD). The reason I am looking into StarOffice is because I have heard that it is M$ W*rd compatible (no sense using a word processor if nobody else can read the documents you produce) and it apparently has a good interface. >I agree here completely. How else are we going to take machines back from >Microsoft if we can't compete in the desktop arena? If Freebsd ran MS >office, I wouldn't have to keep installing Win95/98 on all the desktop >computers around here. Too bad people around the world (read: North America) got so quickly sucked into the Micr*S*ft scam. There used to be plenty of decent office suite solutions out there (lotus, wordperfect, etc.) but now it seems if you aren't using M$, you aren't using anything. I do notice that Corel has put out a *nix port of Wordperfect. How come M$ hasn't followed suit? Are they a little afraid of this "other" operating system moving in on their Windows world? Given the choice, I would rather pay money for a company that seems to care about providing solutions to meet peoples' needs, rather than trying to change peoples' needs to meet their solutions. Ultimately though, I would rather get quality *FREE* software. (without resorting to piracy). M. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 24 10:29:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA02365 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:29:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.cybcon.com (mail.cybcon.com [205.147.64.46]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA02360 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:29:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wwoods@cybcon.com) Received: from support1.cybcon.com (william@support1.cybcon.com [205.147.76.99]) by mail.cybcon.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA03575; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:28:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980824123249.0090b3b0@honk.org> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:27:58 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: wwoods@cybcon.com From: William Woods To: Martin Poulin Subject: Re: StarOffice & wordperfect Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > Since you use both, how would you rate them? (eg. compared to each other, > and to M$) Well, If you are into the Free Word Processors, then, in my opinion you cant beat StarOffice. For my daily work though (I have need to translate several different wp's files) WP 7 was the choice. The $$ part for WP was not a big deal, as the company I work for bought it for wiork. >I agree here completely. How else are we going to take machines back from >>Microsoft if we can't compete in the desktop arena? If Freebsd ran MS >>office, I wouldn't have to keep installing Win95/98 on all the desktop >>computers around here. > > > I do notice that Corel has put out a *nix port of Wordperfect. How come M$ > hasn't > followed suit? Are they a little afraid of this "other" operating system I thionk I can answer this....why would MS put out a Suite that doesnt run on their OS...it defeats their pourpose....while Corel has no OS and therefore can support many platforms. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message --------------------- William Woods Date: 24-Aug-98 / Time: 10:21:58 goto to: http//www.freebsd.org. --> FreeBSD 3.0 CURRENT <-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 24 12:36:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA24714 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:36:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gandhi.roma ([128.58.111.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA24704 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:36:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smendoza@juriscompint.com) Received: from juriscompint.com ([128.58.111.30]) by gandhi.roma (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with ESMTP id 487; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 15:50:09 -0400 Message-ID: <35E1C0B6.EDAEBFB0@juriscompint.com> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 15:36:22 -0400 From: "Simon Mendoza" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: StarOffice & wordperfect References: <3.0.3.32.19980824123249.0090b3b0@honk.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------D72F53026E51BBCF6743ED8B" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --------------D72F53026E51BBCF6743ED8B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > At 10:52 AM 8/24/98 -0400, Various People wrote: > > >> Well, I would both use and welcome a MS Office like program, for a couple > >> reasons. Unlike a lot of people, I use FreeBSD not as a hobby system, but a > >> work system. I need Word Processing, spread sheets, database and would > greeatly > >> welcome a program like Power Point. > >> > >> Personally, if they were integrated and worked together, great. IMHO, > lack of > >> everyday apps like these are holding FreeBSD back. StarOffice and Word > Perfect, > >> (I use both) are a welcome addition to the Unix world and fill a very > big hole > >> in needed apps. > > > > Since you use both, how would you rate them? (eg. compared to each other, > and to M$) > > I am mostly interested in finding a good wysiwyg word processor, and I > really don't > want to shell out hundreds of dollars if there is a free option for me. > (hence my attempt to move away from the M$ world and into *FREE*BSD). > > The reason I am looking into StarOffice is because I have heard that it is > M$ W*rd > compatible (no sense using a word processor if nobody else can read the > documents > you produce) and it apparently has a good interface. > > >I agree here completely. How else are we going to take machines back from > >Microsoft if we can't compete in the desktop arena? If Freebsd ran MS > >office, I wouldn't have to keep installing Win95/98 on all the desktop > >computers around here. > > > Too bad people around the world (read: North America) got so quickly sucked > into the > Micr*S*ft scam. There used to be plenty of decent office suite solutions > out there > (lotus, wordperfect, etc.) but now it seems if you aren't using M$, you > aren't using > anything. > > I do notice that Corel has put out a *nix port of Wordperfect. How come M$ > hasn't > followed suit? Are they a little afraid of this "other" operating system > moving in on their Windows world? > Given the choice, I would rather pay money for a company that seems to care > about providing solutions to meet peoples' needs, rather than trying to > change peoples' needs to meet their solutions. Ultimately though, I would > rather get quality *FREE* software. > (without resorting to piracy). > > > M. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > I have been using StarOffice 3.1 for about 2 months now and as far as I am concerned I like it better than the MSOffice 97, though to tell you the truth it is a little bit slower, It doesn't support files from Word 95, only Word 6.0, the OLE implementation is a bit fuzzy and not as straight forward as the MS counterpart. On the other hand comes with the same "suite"(Word=StarWriter3, Power Point=StarDraw3, Excel= StarCalc3) and it comes with a nice gallery and some document templates. The best of all is that is free, and so easy to install you will not believe. Greetings Simon. --------------D72F53026E51BBCF6743ED8B Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   
At 10:52 AM 8/24/98 -0400, Various People wrote:

>> Well, I would both use and welcome a MS Office like program, for a couple
>> reasons. Unlike a lot of people, I use FreeBSD not as a hobby system, but a
>> work system. I need Word Processing, spread sheets, database  and would
greeatly
>> welcome a program like Power Point.
>>
>> Personally, if they were integrated and worked together, great. IMHO,
lack of
>> everyday apps like these are holding FreeBSD back. StarOffice and Word
Perfect,
>> (I use both) are a welcome addition to the Unix world and fill a very
big hole
>> in needed apps.
>

Since you use both, how would you rate them?  (eg. compared to each other,
and to M$)

I am mostly interested in finding a good wysiwyg word processor, and I
really don't 
want to shell out hundreds of dollars if there is a free option for me.  
(hence my attempt to move away from the M$ world and into *FREE*BSD).

The reason I am looking into StarOffice is because I have heard that it is
M$ W*rd 
compatible (no sense using a word processor if nobody else can read the
documents
you produce) and it apparently has a good interface. 

>I agree here completely.  How else are we going to take machines back from
>Microsoft if we can't compete in the desktop arena?  If Freebsd ran MS
>office, I wouldn't have to keep installing Win95/98 on all the desktop
>computers around here. 

<soapbox>
Too bad people around the world (read: North America) got so quickly sucked
into the
Micr*S*ft scam.  There used to be plenty of decent office suite solutions
out there
(lotus, wordperfect, etc.) but now it seems if you aren't using M$, you
aren't using
anything.

I do notice that Corel has put out a *nix port of Wordperfect.  How come M$
hasn't 
followed suit?  Are they a little afraid of this "other" operating system
moving in on their Windows world?  
Given the choice, I would rather pay money for a company that seems to care
about providing solutions to meet peoples' needs, rather than trying to
change peoples' needs to meet their solutions.  Ultimately though, I would
rather get quality *FREE* software.
(without resorting to piracy).
</soapbox>

M.


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
  I have been using StarOffice 3.1 for about 2 months now and as far as I am concerned I like it better than the MSOffice 97, though to tell you the truth it is a little bit slower, It doesn't support files from Word 95, only Word 6.0, the OLE implementation is a bit fuzzy and not as straight forward as the MS counterpart. On the other hand comes with the same "suite"(Word=StarWriter3, Power Point=StarDraw3, Excel= StarCalc3) and it comes with a nice gallery and some document templates. The best of all is that is free, and so easy to install you will not believe.
 

Greetings

Simon. --------------D72F53026E51BBCF6743ED8B-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 24 13:14:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA28896 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:14:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.honk.org (honk.org [206.191.48.225]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA28891 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:14:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mpoulin@honk.org) Received: from sw47 ([207.219.2.135]) by mail.honk.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA01180 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 15:03:53 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980824161429.00908d90@honk.org> X-Sender: mpoulin@honk.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:14:29 -0400 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Martin Poulin Subject: Re: StarOffice & wordperfect In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.3.32.19980824123249.0090b3b0@honk.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:27 AM 8/24/98 -0700, William Woods wrote: >> >> >> Since you use both, how would you rate them? (eg. compared to each other, >> and to M$) > >Well, If you are into the Free Word Processors, then, in my opinion you cant >beat StarOffice. For my daily work though (I have need to translate several >different wp's files) WP 7 was the choice. The $$ part for WP was not a big >deal, as the company I work for bought it for wiork. Ah, Corel for free. Can't beat that. If I could afford it, I would definitely go the Corel route (coming from Ottawa and all), but I think I will definitely give StarOffice a try. >> I do notice that Corel has put out a *nix port of Wordperfect. How come M$ >> hasn't >> followed suit? Are they a little afraid of this "other" operating system > >I thionk I can answer this....why would MS put out a Suite that doesnt run on >their OS...it defeats their pourpose....while Corel has no OS and therefore can >support many platforms. Interesting - I thought for sure that MS has had a version of Office that ran on Mac OS for years (maybe it was just Word...) I also seem to recall not too long ago a certain Mr. Copeland (Corel's version of Bill Gates) said that Corel had no plans to develop Corel Suite for OS2 since they didn't believe that the demand was there. I wonder if this is still the case, and if so that means that FreeBSD has (in Corel's eyes) more appeal to a customer base than IBM!! M. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 24 13:29:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA01815 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:29:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de (gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de [194.163.242.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01807 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:29:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de) Received: from duffner.konstanz.netsurf.de (surf81.konstanz.netsurf.de [194.163.242.81]) by gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA13754; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:28:18 +0200 Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:08:43 +0200 (MESZ) From: Rainer M Duffner Subject: Re: StarOffice & wordperfect To: William Woods cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: enigma, http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~enigma X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon 24 Aug, William Woods wrote: > > I installed it only to 'see' it and know if and how it works. > > I don't see it as a 'killer-app', nor would I use/welcome the > > MS-Office-Suite, if there was a port to Linux/FreeBSD. > > Well, I would both use and welcome a MS Office like program, for a couple > reasons. Unlike a lot of people, I use FreeBSD not as a hobby system, but a > work system. I need Word Processing, spread sheets, database and would > greeatly welcome a program like Power Point. What's the state of Kpresenter ? I think there was another program someone else mentioned to me. > Personally, if they were integrated and worked together, great. IMHO, lack of > everyday apps like these are holding FreeBSD back. StarOffice and Word > Perfect, (I use both) are a welcome addition to the Unix world and > fill a very big hole in needed apps. OK, your right, I was a bit harsh. It's just that I don't have a personal need for the office-suites, as I don't use FreeBSD as a desktop-platform (nor do I use Windows). I find the thought of x*100 MB software-installs (for writing letters or showing 'slides') downright repulsive. It's enough to have one contanimated platform (M$-Windows) where features, marketing and apparently "toy'ish-ness" count more than the actual value or real-world usability of software. I don't want FreeBSD become into _that_. Netscape is enough.... cheers, Rainer -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |Rainer Duffner, E-Mail: duffner@fh-konstanz.de | | & Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de | |Fachhochschule Konstanz, Germany | |"What's a Network ?" - Bill Gates, early 1980s | | WWW:http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~duffner | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 24 13:29:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA01829 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:29:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de (gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de [194.163.242.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01808 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:29:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de) Received: from duffner.konstanz.netsurf.de (surf81.konstanz.netsurf.de [194.163.242.81]) by gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA13758; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:28:21 +0200 Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:16:14 +0200 (MESZ) From: Rainer M Duffner Subject: Re: StarOffice & wordperfect To: Chris Coleman cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: enigma, http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~enigma X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon 24 Aug, Chris Coleman wrote: > > > > I installed it only to 'see' it and know if and how it works. > > > I don't see it as a 'killer-app', nor would I use/welcome the > > > MS-Office-Suite, if there was a port to Linux/FreeBSD. > > > > Well, I would both use and welcome a MS Office like program, for a couple > > reasons. Unlike a lot of people, I use FreeBSD not as a hobby system, but a > > work system. I need Word Processing, spread sheets, database and would > > greeatly welcome a program like Power Point. > > Personally, if they were integrated and worked together, great. IMHO, lack > > of everyday apps like these are holding FreeBSD back. StarOffice and > > Word Perfect, (I use both) are a welcome addition to the Unix world > > and fill a very big hole in needed apps. > > I agree here completely. How else are we going to take machines back from > Microsoft if we can't compete in the desktop arena? If Freebsd ran MS > office, I wouldn't have to keep installing Win95/98 on all the desktop > computers around here. I just mentioned MS-Office, because I read somewhere that for some short time, there was a host 'linus' accessible inside microsoft.com ('linus.microsoft.com') which is said to have showed a standard RedHat post-install web-site. But this may have to do with the availability of DCOM for Linux ('EntireX') and other 'real' Unices. I didn't want to keep Microsoft from porting anything to FreeBSD ;-) (I'm sure they listen...) it's just that *I* don't have a big urge to install yet another 200 MB of mostly worthless junk on my HD, which I'm sure Office97 would take as a minimum Unix-install. I use other software on another platform for that. cheers, Rainer -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |Rainer Duffner, E-Mail: duffner@fh-konstanz.de | | & Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de | |Fachhochschule Konstanz, Germany | |"What's a Network ?" - Bill Gates, early 1980s | | WWW:http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~duffner | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 24 14:55:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA12864 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:55:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA12859 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:55:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA12821; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 07:54:45 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980825075441.12853@welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 07:54:41 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: wwoods@cybcon.com Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: StarOffice & wordperfect References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from William Woods on Mon, Aug 24, 1998 at 07:02:05AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Aug 24, 1998 at 07:02:05AM -0700, William Woods wrote: > > I installed it only to 'see' it and know if and how it works. > > I don't see it as a 'killer-app', nor would I use/welcome the > > MS-Office-Suite, if there was a port to Linux/FreeBSD. > > Well, I would both use and welcome a MS Office like program, for a couple > reasons. Unlike a lot of people, I use FreeBSD not as a hobby system, but a > work system. I need Word Processing, spread sheets, database and would greeatly > welcome a program like Power Point. I can sort of manage without for my own work. When I need a nice letter or invoice, I can email the basic text to the friendly Macintosh consultants down the road, run down there with my pocket calculator, format them and print them out. It happens rarely enough that the coffee and cake makes it worth the effort :-) Where I have real problems, though, is in accessing information that is shared by groups I'm forced to work with from time to time. Usually I'm the only person not running microsoft, and they share word documents, powerpoint presentations, spreadsheets, etc. I have no easy way to read these, and it's a real bother when I need to alter a couple of words and return the file in a usable format for them. Of course, these people have very few skills, and cannot cope with saving files in other formats, cannot "see" a file if it hasn't got the right extension (even .rtf, .csv are invisible), and believe that I'm the only person on earth (as they know it) whose system is so inferior that it cannot cope with standard office documents. But their pathetic skills and tools are more than adequate to their needs. Who am I to force them to change? As the only non-MS person among a brainwashed and helpless bunch, I must change. So what does that mean? As far as I know, there is still no way to deal with the latest versions of all of these files under FreeBSD. I have to run MS-Office, always the latest version, to read and produce files they can deal with. For that, I need to run a microsoft OS, again the latest version, and for that I need a machine that's hefty enough to handle it, i.e., with much more muscle than I need for FreeBSD. I have to upgrade the software and the OS when new releases come out, to read their new file formats. With these upgrades, I will have to upgrade the hardware to withstand the new demands. The cost of maintianing that machine, solely to read and edit their documents, would come to several thousand dollars per year. I don't spend that much money on my whole network! Unless I can find a reliable way to deal with their files under FreeBSD, now and through future MS changes, I need to weigh up whether it is better to purchase and fit out a machine for the task, or not have the work. The most palatable choice is to refuse the work. So what happens then? Those people learn that yes, everyone (that they know of) does indeed run microsoft and if you send out a microsoft-produced document it's a standard format that everyone can read. I teach them that by withdrawing from their known world. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Aug 24 22:05:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA01397 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:05:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alinga.newcastle.edu.au (alinga.newcastle.edu.au [134.148.160.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA01390 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:05:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from youdaman@reincarnate.com) Received: from reincarnate.com (c9707010@peach.newcastle.edu.au [134.148.96.108]) by alinga.newcastle.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16624 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 15:04:56 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <35E24617.6B5C3BB7@reincarnate.com> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 15:05:28 +1000 From: Stewart Heckenberg Reply-To: c9707010@alinga.newcastle.edu.au X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: slirp & ppp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi all, I was wondering how I could get internet access using ppp in combination with slirp. I have a ppp connection through Windows Dial-Up Networking that allows me to use slirp, however the ppp program in FreeBSD doesn't acknowledge that I'm in ppp mode after I have activated slirp on the server I dialed. I've read that typing "~p" in terminal mode puts it in packet mode (which it does) but is this enough? I also might need some help with my "hosts", "ppp.config", and other files if anyone is willing - I have read and followed the handbook's instructions, but I want some additional guidance if that's ok... btw, I noticed that typing "~?" while in terminal mode gives me the start of the help message followed by garbled characters - I assume I need the "screen" program? Cheers, Stewart To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 25 07:12:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA02661 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 07:12:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alinga.newcastle.edu.au (alinga.newcastle.edu.au [134.148.160.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA02652 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 07:12:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from youdaman@reincarnate.com) Received: from reincarnate.com (c9707010@peach.newcastle.edu.au [134.148.96.108]) by alinga.newcastle.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA20574; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 00:11:15 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <35E2C622.C77CA58D@reincarnate.com> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 00:11:47 +1000 From: Stewart Heckenberg Reply-To: c9707010@alinga.newcastle.edu.au X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake , FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: Re: slirp & ppp References: <35E24617.6B5C3BB7@reincarnate.com> <19980825152841.19141@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue Blake wrote: > On Tue, Aug 25, 1998 at 03:05:28PM +1000, Stewart Heckenberg wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I was wondering how I could get internet access using ppp in combination > > with slirp. > > Then why on earth are you asking in -newbies for heaven's sake? > You can ask that in -questions, therefore it's off topic for -newbies. > Oops! > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- Apologies to all, I have erred, and shall now be forfeit to the gods of FreeBSD :) Ciao, Stewart To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 25 07:59:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA08936 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 07:59:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (s205m64.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA08931 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 07:59:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id HAA22667 for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 07:58:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 07:58:08 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199808251458.HAA22667@pau-amma.whistle.com> Subject: Re: StarOffice & wordperfect Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980825075441.12853@welearn.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 07:54:41 +1000 >From: Sue Blake >Where I have real problems, though, is in accessing information that is >shared by groups I'm forced to work with from time to time. Usually I'm >the only person not running microsoft, and they share word documents, >powerpoint presentations, spreadsheets, etc. I have no easy way to read >these, and it's a real bother when I need to alter a couple of words >and return the file in a usable format for them. Indeed. >Of course, these people have very few skills, and cannot cope with >saving files in other formats, cannot "see" a file if it hasn't got the >right extension (even .rtf, .csv are invisible), and believe that I'm >the only person on earth (as they know it) whose system is so inferior >that it cannot cope with standard office documents. Just as you quoted "see" (above), I believe that it would have been appropriate to quote "standard" -- given the context. :-} >But their pathetic skills and tools are more than adequate to their [perceived] >needs. Who am I to force them to change? I suppose that depends on various things, such as why you don't (or do, as the case may be) use similar tools. I certainly can't answer that for you; I can try to answer it for me, though my answers don't always make sense to others. >As the only non-MS person >among a brainwashed and helpless bunch, I must change. So what does >that mean? As far as I know, there is still no way to deal with the >latest versions of all of these files under FreeBSD. And suppose >POOF!< a way suddenly appeared. What reason is there to believe that the originator of the proprietary format(s) in question wouldn't change things? Granted, they can't change the format of something that's already written; granted also that they can't make changes instantaneously. They can, however, make life miserable for folks who actually want to have & use data formats that allow systems running different(! shudder!) environments to communicate & interoperate. From what I've seen of their history, they excel at that. >The most palatable choice is to refuse the work. So what happens then? >Those people learn that yes, everyone (that they know of) does indeed run >microsoft and if you send out a microsoft-produced document it's a >standard format that everyone can read. I teach them that by >withdrawing from their known world. They also get a lobotomy so they forget about you??!? I would find that rather surprising; perhaps I'm merely easily surprised. In all seriousness, you bring up some interesting & important issues (which happen to strike home with me because of a "conversation" my wife & I had over the weekend). These are concerns where any thinking person must make an individual choice -- I seriously doubt that there's a "one size fits all" approach that is at all defensible. Cheers, david -- David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 25 16:29:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00466 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 16:29:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA00413 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 16:29:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (aeiusrI-42.aei.ca [206.186.205.192]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA06097 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 19:28:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35E34040.C7262CFF@aei.ca> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 18:52:48 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Tip #2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tip #2 I have learned recently than you could change both owner and group owner in a simple command. The normal way to do so would be: $ chown malartre FILE $ chgrp wheel FILE Thats to much long for me ;-) So the solution is: $ chown malartre:wheel FILE ---------- Notes: There is also a BAD WAY to do so: $ chown malartre.wheel BUT DONT USE THAT: because sometimes, it's nice to have a "." in a user name. I have finded the last way (malartre.wheel) in a O'Reilly book, but it seems it's not good to do so. ---------- -- [Malartre][malartre@aei.ca][http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 25 23:15:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA14912 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 23:15:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA14907 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 23:15:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca ([207.107.48.95]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA26551 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 02:14:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35E3A4B3.DCCE1689@aei.ca> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 02:01:23 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Cya, I unsubscribe References: <35E34040.C7262CFF@aei.ca> <19980826095811.36432@welearn.com.au> <35E3648B.E04115A7@aei.ca> <19980826114639.65419@welearn.com.au> <35E38D78.FB65D078@aei.ca> <19980826144551.28319@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Like Sue say, "Linux is for playing" and "FreeBSD for serious newbies who do serious work and who do not want to crash it". So you should not risk yourself to share something on the list. I was thinking than you need to do some error to learn. Anyway, after some month of reading the list, I see than there is nothing who could interest anyone, but "please ask on freebsd-questions, because we do nothing but discuss about how we could do something" or "I'm proud of it: ive installed freebsd and Im a newbie but I should do nothing because there is a risk to crash it" or even "Im newbie, so I cannot risk myself to help you or to share what I know, because it could crash your PC" "the only thing I can do is giving URL" Ok, seriously I haved some discution with Sue about what we should do on that list. Apparently, nothing. I completly disagree with talking with other newbies about how slashdot is fun to read, how it's fun to be a newbie and how it's fun to do nothing. You should only say "hey. ask that question on Freebsd-Questions". I have started to give some tips about what Ive learned, to give some life to the list but has Sue say to me, its not welcome. The list charter are invariable and unbreakable. I will unsubscribe myself from the list for those reason and hope it will change. Cya -- [Malartre][malartre@aei.ca][http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Aug 25 23:53:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA17812 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 23:53:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA17796 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 1998 23:53:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA17758; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:52:37 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980826165234.19194@welearn.com.au> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:52:34 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Malartre Cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cya, I unsubscribe References: <35E34040.C7262CFF@aei.ca> <19980826095811.36432@welearn.com.au> <35E3648B.E04115A7@aei.ca> <19980826114639.65419@welearn.com.au> <35E38D78.FB65D078@aei.ca> <19980826144551.28319@welearn.com.au> <35E3A4B3.DCCE1689@aei.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <35E3A4B3.DCCE1689@aei.ca>; from Malartre on Wed, Aug 26, 1998 at 02:01:23AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Aug 26, 1998 at 02:01:23AM -0400, Malartre wrote: > Like Sue say, "Linux is for playing" and "FreeBSD for serious newbies > who do serious work and who do not want to crash it". So you should not > risk yourself to share something on the list. I was thinking than you > need to do some error to learn. Anyway, after some month of reading the > list, I see than there is nothing who could interest anyone, but "please > ask on freebsd-questions, because we do nothing but discuss about how we > could do something" or "I'm proud of it: ive installed freebsd and Im a > newbie but I should do nothing because there is a risk to crash it" or > even "Im newbie, so I cannot risk myself to help you or to share what I > know, because it could crash your PC" "the only thing I can do is giving > URL" > > Ok, seriously I haved some discution with Sue about what we should do on > that list. Apparently, nothing. What I said to you was that if you want to have a place where newbies can teach and learn from other newbies, fine, but plan it and execute it properly, from the ground up. I also offered to help you, because it's a lot of work. That offer is still open. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 26 17:34:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26659 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:34:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.realtime.net (mail1.realtime.net [205.238.128.217]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA26651 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:34:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sjsan@bga.com) Received: (qmail 29714 invoked from network); 27 Aug 1998 00:33:29 -0000 Received: from zoom.realtime.net (HELO zoom.bga.com) (root@205.238.128.40) by mail1.realtime.net with SMTP; 27 Aug 1998 00:33:29 -0000 Received: from sjsan.cc.utexas.edu (dial-91-8.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.249.8]) by zoom.bga.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA05317; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:33:01 -0500 Message-Id: X-Sender: sjsan@mailserv.bga.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Demo Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:56:42 -0500 To: Malartre From: "Stevan S." Subject: Re: Cya, I unsubscribe Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <35E3A4B3.DCCE1689@aei.ca> References: <35E34040.C7262CFF@aei.ca> <19980826095811.36432@welearn.com.au> <35E3648B.E04115A7@aei.ca> <19980826114639.65419@welearn.com.au> <35E38D78.FB65D078@aei.ca> <19980826144551.28319@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Malartre, Apparently this list seems to be a controlled list and if you step out of line you get your hand slapped. If it is bad enough they will cut you from this list. It is sad that this list can't be more open so all of us can learn from each others experiences, even if it mean crashing the system. I lost count of how many times that I have crashed my system and had to reinstall it. Guess what? I learn from it. >I have started to give some tips about what Ive learned, to give some >life to the list but has Sue say to me, its not welcome. The list >charter are invariable and unbreakable. I found your tips to be useful. I don't know everything about FreeBSD but anything that I can learn I'll give it a try. I personally enjoyed reading your post and tips so don't think it was not appreciated because it was. >I will unsubscribe myself from the list for those reason and hope it >will change. I should have done this too, along time ago. Once I figured out who was who and the BS that goes thought this list, I feel it is a waste of my time for the same reasons you stated. I will also unsubscribe myself. Cheers, >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > __ Stevan S. sjsan@bga.com Tell me and I'll Forget... Show me and I'll Remember... Involve me and I'll Understand. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 26 18:53:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA09414 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:53:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA09398 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:53:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gekk0@usa.net) Received: from rjiredff (ppp-206-170-2-58.sntc01.pacbell.net [206.170.2.58]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id SAA16807 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:52:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980826185301.007a0720@pop.netaddress.com> X-Sender: gekk0@pop.netaddress.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:53:01 -0700 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: gek Subject: Re: Cya, I unsubscribe Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org If one can't ask questions (even basic) here...what is this list for? I keep forgetting.... >At 06:56 PM 8/26/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Malartre, >> >>Apparently this list seems to be a controlled list and if you step out of >>line you get your hand slapped. If it is bad enough they will cut you from >>this list. It is sad that this list can't be more open so all of us can >>learn from each others experiences, even if it mean crashing the system. I >>lost count of how many times that I have crashed my system and had to >>reinstall it. Guess what? I learn from it. >> >>>I have started to give some tips about what Ive learned, to give some >>>life to the list but has Sue say to me, its not welcome. The list >>>charter are invariable and unbreakable. >> >>I found your tips to be useful. I don't know everything about FreeBSD but >>anything that I can learn I'll give it a try. I personally enjoyed reading >>your post and tips so don't think it was not appreciated because it was. >> >>>I will unsubscribe myself from the list for those reason and hope it >>>will change. >> >>I should have done this too, along time ago. Once I figured out who was >>who and the BS that goes thought this list, I feel it is a waste of my time >>for the same reasons you stated. >> >>I will also unsubscribe myself. >> >>Cheers, >> >> >> >>>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >>>with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message >>> >> >>__ >> >>Stevan S. >>sjsan@bga.com >> >>Tell me and I'll Forget... >>Show me and I'll Remember... >>Involve me and I'll Understand. >> >> >>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >>with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 26 19:04:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA11875 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:04:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA11866 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:04:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gekk0@usa.net) Received: from rjiredff (ppp-206-170-2-58.sntc01.pacbell.net [206.170.2.58]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id TAA19969; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980826190359.0079d730@pop.netaddress.com> X-Sender: gekk0@pop.netaddress.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:03:59 -0700 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: gek Subject: Re: unsubscribe Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Would there be enough demand for me to locate another place that I could set up a mailing list for FreeBSD newbies to ask their questions, chat, share tips, etc? I think I might be able to find a place, just remember, that a list filled with "newbies" may not be able to answer your question, but you won't be told not to ask questions on the list. I have no problem with the way Sue runs this list, but there seems to be a demand for a list that newbies can subscribe to and ask basic questions, without being inundated by questions that are sometime waaayyy beyond what they need to get started(f-questions). Sub to that list and you're mail box will be filled with email, some qustions are basic, others are extremely technical. If anyone is interested, just let me know. Thanks To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 26 19:33:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA15438 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:33:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from out1.ibm.net (out1.ibm.net [165.87.194.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA15432 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:33:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bobb@ibm.net) Received: from slip-32-100-178-85.va.us.ibm.net (slip-32-100-178-85.va.us.ibm.net [32.100.178.85]) by out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA69862; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 02:32:35 GMT Message-Id: <199808270232.CAA69862@out1.ibm.net> From: "Bobb Shires" To: "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" , "gek" Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:33:33 -0400 Reply-To: "Bobb Shires" X-Mailer: PMMail 1.96a For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: unsubscribe Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:03:59 -0700, gek wrote: >Would there be enough demand for me to locate another place that I could >set up a mailing list for FreeBSD newbies to ask their questions, chat, >share tips, etc? >I think I might be able to find a place, just remember, that a list filled >with "newbies" may not be able to answer your question, but you won't be >told not to ask questions on the list. I would be interested in subscribing to such a list. I'm surprised and disappointed to find that's not what goes on here. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 26 20:26:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA22568 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 20:26:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from suarez.bestweb.net (suarez.bestweb.net [209.94.100.150]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA22560 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 20:26:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@suarez.bestweb.net) Received: from immortal.bestweb.net (immortal.bestweb.net [209.94.111.41]) by suarez.bestweb.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA17511 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:24:23 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: "Mark Dickey" From: "Mark Dickey" To: Subject: Re: unsubscribe Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:26:26 -0400 Message-ID: <01bdd16a$78d7f780$296f5ed1@immortal.bestweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Yes, such a list would be of interest. -----Original Message----- From: gek To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wednesday, August 26, 1998 10:09 PM Subject: Re: unsubscribe >Would there be enough demand for me to locate another place that I could >set up a mailing list for FreeBSD newbies to ask their questions, chat, >share tips, etc? >I think I might be able to find a place, just remember, that a list filled >with "newbies" may not be able to answer your question, but you won't be >told not to ask questions on the list. > >I have no problem with the way Sue runs this list, but there seems to be a >demand for a list that newbies can subscribe to and ask basic questions, >without being inundated by questions that are sometime waaayyy beyond what >they need to get started(f-questions). > >Sub to that list and you're mail box will be filled with email, some >qustions are basic, others are extremely technical. > >If anyone is interested, just let me know. > >Thanks > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 26 20:53:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA25453 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 20:53:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA25439 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 20:53:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA20983; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 13:52:51 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980827135247.43750@welearn.com.au> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 13:52:47 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: gek Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: How would it work? References: <3.0.5.32.19980826190359.0079d730@pop.netaddress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980826190359.0079d730@pop.netaddress.com>; from gek on Wed, Aug 26, 1998 at 07:03:59PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Aug 26, 1998 at 07:03:59PM -0700, gek wrote: > Would there be enough demand for me to locate another place that I could > set up a mailing list for FreeBSD newbies to ask their questions, chat, > share tips, etc? > I think I might be able to find a place, just remember, that a list filled > with "newbies" may not be able to answer your question, but you won't be > told not to ask questions on the list. Having the "place" is not the problem, that's the easiest part to organise! Many have suggested a similar thing, so you are not alone there. Nobody has been able to turn their "I want for me" wish into "we'll do this for FreeBSD" reality. Nobody has found a way to make it work. No newbie has ever had the patience and maturity to sit down and plan it carefuly, figure out how it could work, how it could be sustained, who would support it and how, and what incentive all parties would have. If anyone can ever get out of their tantrums long enough to answer all these questions, housing the list will be no problem at all. Get real, think, plan, gather resources, then act, and no-one will stop you. FreeBSD is not a service, it's a community where people do what they want to do because they have some incentive do it. It's no use demanding what you want, you have to demonstrate that you know how to make it work. Nobody has been able to tackle that one yet, but everyone wants to shed tears over what service they wish would magically appear. Has anyone even begun to consider which difficulties would need to be overcome? Or do you all think that it'll just "happen" like magic? -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 26 21:20:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA28668 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:20:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-gw5.pacbell.net (mail-gw5.pacbell.net [206.13.28.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA28663 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:20:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gekk0@usa.net) Received: from rjiredff (ppp-207-214-213-29.sntc01.pacbell.net [207.214.213.29]) by mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id VAA25868 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:19:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980826211949.00797b60@pop.netaddress.com> X-Sender: gekk0@pop.netaddress.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:19:49 -0700 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: gek Subject: Re: How would it work? In-Reply-To: <19980827135247.43750@welearn.com.au> References: <3.0.5.32.19980826190359.0079d730@pop.netaddress.com> <3.0.5.32.19980826190359.0079d730@pop.netaddress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org How will this happen? hrm.. 1) People subscribe 2) People ask questions, chat, discuss FreeBSD, etc 3) People either respond or delete the message As long as people understand that this new list is targeted towards people new to FreeBSD, and that some of the questions they ask may not get answered on the list. Someone may of gone through the same pain someone else is asking about, and may feel like helping Who would run it? run what? I don't run a dictatorship The 2 rules: 1) No excessive flaming 2) no spam Being ex-military, I have no problem sending in a SEAL team to silence someone, or if I'm lazy....just launch a little cruise missle :) , or removing them from the list, but it would take a lot for me to do that....I'm just a laid back type of guy. Gotta be laid back to sit in traffic here in Silicon Valley, hehe. Besides, I lack a life, therefore I have time to kill :) I'm almost done setting it up... Have a good day Kevin At 01:52 PM 8/27/98 +1000, you wrote: >On Wed, Aug 26, 1998 at 07:03:59PM -0700, gek wrote: >> Would there be enough demand for me to locate another place that I could >> set up a mailing list for FreeBSD newbies to ask their questions, chat, >> share tips, etc? >> I think I might be able to find a place, just remember, that a list filled >> with "newbies" may not be able to answer your question, but you won't be >> told not to ask questions on the list. > >Having the "place" is not the problem, that's the easiest part to >organise! > >Many have suggested a similar thing, so you are not alone there. > >Nobody has been able to turn their "I want for me" wish into "we'll do >this for FreeBSD" reality. Nobody has found a way to make it work. No >newbie has ever had the patience and maturity to sit down and plan it >carefuly, figure out how it could work, how it could be sustained, who >would support it and how, and what incentive all parties would have. > >If anyone can ever get out of their tantrums long enough to answer all >these questions, housing the list will be no problem at all. > >Get real, think, plan, gather resources, then act, and no-one will stop you. > >FreeBSD is not a service, it's a community where people do what they >want to do because they have some incentive do it. It's no use >demanding what you want, you have to demonstrate that you know how to >make it work. Nobody has been able to tackle that one yet, but everyone >wants to shed tears over what service they wish would magically appear. > >Has anyone even begun to consider which difficulties would need to be >overcome? Or do you all think that it'll just "happen" like magic? > >-- > >Regards, > -*Sue*- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 26 21:28:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA29733 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:28:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA29716 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:28:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (aeiusrI-32.aei.ca [206.186.205.182]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA05901 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 00:27:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35E4E01B.A3B1D407@aei.ca> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 00:27:07 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Suggestion Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org If someone do a mailling list for new users, but dont want to be flooded with always the same basic message (like "how can I delete a file"), I propose those 5 rules and a disclaimer. ---------- 1:There is a cost to ask a question and there is a FAQ maintainer 2:Before asking a question, check if it's not in the list's FAQ 3:The cost: when you have an answer to your question, you write it and send it to the official FAQ maintainer. 4:The FAQ maintainer will upgrade the FAQ pages with your answer 5:If you dont pay the cost, shame on you! AT YOUR ---OWN--- RISK. YOU SHOULD NOT TRY ANYTHING IN THE FAQ OR IN THE MAILING LIST ON CRITICAL APPLICATIONS COMPUTERS HAS QUESTIONS & ANSWER MAY CONTAIN ERRATA. YOU SHOULD NOT ASK ABOUT HARDWARE OR "ADVANCED" QUESTIONS ON THIS LIST. YOU SHOULD CORRECT ANY BAD ANSWER OR ADD ANY MISSING INFORMATIONS. THE GOAL OF THIS LIST IS TO PROVIDE INFORMATION ABOUT HOW TO START IN THE FREEBSD WORLD AND TO OFFER SOME BASIC SUPPORT, BUT ALSO TO ---DOCUMENT--- THOSE FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS BY NEW USERS IN A FAQ MAINTAINED BY NEW USERS. ---------- Really simple I think. Maybe Sue is interested ;-) Please Cc to me any comment because I'm not on the list. -- [Malartre][malartre@aei.ca][http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 26 21:54:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA04250 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:54:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA04202 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:53:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA21152; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:52:51 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980827145246.26504@welearn.com.au> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:52:47 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: gek Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How would it work? References: <3.0.5.32.19980826190359.0079d730@pop.netaddress.com> <3.0.5.32.19980826190359.0079d730@pop.netaddress.com> <19980827135247.43750@welearn.com.au> <3.0.5.32.19980826211949.00797b60@pop.netaddress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980826211949.00797b60@pop.netaddress.com>; from gek on Wed, Aug 26, 1998 at 09:19:49PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ah, good, you're beginning to look at it :-) On Wed, Aug 26, 1998 at 09:19:49PM -0700, gek wrote: > How will this happen? hrm.. > > 1) People subscribe Is it open to all? > 2) People ask questions, chat, discuss FreeBSD, etc What types of questions would it cover? What types of questions would it not cover? How would someone asking a question decide if it is appropriate? > 3) People either respond or delete the message What sort of people would be responding? > As long as people understand that this new list is targeted towards people > new to FreeBSD, and that some of the questions they ask may not get > answered on the list. > Someone may of gone through the same pain someone else is asking about, and > may feel like helping OK. What is going to happen when someone gives some advice that is incorrect? Who will know that it's incorrect? How will it be dealt with? > Who would run it? run what? I don't run a dictatorship > > The 2 rules: > 1) No excessive flaming > 2) no spam So you're not going to have any requirement about keeping to the topic of the list. That'll give it a nice sense of freedom. I might even find someone there to discuss crochet with :-) But what about when the volume of mail gets larger and people start complaining that they have to wade through too much irrelevant crap? How are you going to deal with that? (Not saying you can't, just looking for a plan) Also, it sounds like you're still focussed on housing the list as the major hurdle and planning to do it yourself (but maybe I'm wrong here). Just about any newbie has the skills to set up a mailing list. The planning and people skills to make it work is another matter. There could be problems with presenting it as a FreeBSD list if it is believed to have the potential to cause problems for FreeBSD. For example, if someone believed that it would encourage misinformation that put an added burden on the regular FreeBSD support system, or that it would make FreeBSD look bad in some way, you could have problems. Be careful what you call it and how you promote it. Do you hope to get any support from the existing FreeBSD structures? Will you be asking those who volunteer on the freebsd-questions list to help out on your list instead? Will they feel they have a duty to monitor both lists? Something to consider your position on. > Being ex-military, I have no problem sending in a SEAL team to silence > someone, or if I'm lazy....just launch a little cruise missle :) , or > removing them from the list, but it would take a lot for me to do > that....I'm just a laid back type of guy. > Gotta be laid back to sit in traffic here in Silicon Valley, hehe. You were probably only joking, but if you attract other people with that attitude you might find it a little... distracting :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 26 22:13:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA07387 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:13:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-gw5.pacbell.net (mail-gw5.pacbell.net [206.13.28.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA07378 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:13:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gekk0@usa.net) Received: from rjiredff (ppp-207-214-213-29.sntc01.pacbell.net [207.214.213.29]) by mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id WAA13878; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:12:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980826221156.00799aa0@pop.netaddress.com> X-Sender: gekk0@pop.netaddress.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:11:56 -0700 To: Sue Blake From: gek Subject: Re: How would it work? Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980827145246.26504@welearn.com.au> References: <3.0.5.32.19980826211949.00797b60@pop.netaddress.com> <3.0.5.32.19980826190359.0079d730@pop.netaddress.com> <3.0.5.32.19980826190359.0079d730@pop.netaddress.com> <19980827135247.43750@welearn.com.au> <3.0.5.32.19980826211949.00797b60@pop.netaddress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 02:52 PM 8/27/98 +1000, you wrote: >Ah, good, you're beginning to look at it :-) > >On Wed, Aug 26, 1998 at 09:19:49PM -0700, gek wrote: >> How will this happen? hrm.. >> >> 1) People subscribe > >Is it open to all? Yeppa, and it is unmoderated...I can always moderate it later if need be, but I would only do that if the list became a big spam target. > >> 2) People ask questions, chat, discuss FreeBSD, etc > >What types of questions would it cover? >What types of questions would it not cover? >How would someone asking a question decide if it is appropriate? > People can ask anything...as long as they know the members of the list may not know the answer. As long as it is related to FreeBSD in general...or I don't even care if peopl just discuss computers...as long as there are not any "holy wars" >> 3) People either respond or delete the message > >What sort of people would be responding? > Anyone who thought they might be able to help... >> As long as people understand that this new list is targeted towards people >> new to FreeBSD, and that some of the questions they ask may not get >> answered on the list. >> Someone may of gone through the same pain someone else is asking about, and >> may feel like helping > > >OK. What is going to happen when someone gives some advice that is >incorrect? Who will know that it's incorrect? How will it be dealt >with? > Well...to live and learn i guess. This isn't a perfect world. The best way to learn, is to try... Remember this is a "newbie" list...not a kernel hacker list. >> Who would run it? run what? I don't run a dictatorship >> >> The 2 rules: >> 1) No excessive flaming >> 2) no spam > >So you're not going to have any requirement about keeping to the topic >of the list. That'll give it a nice sense of freedom. I might even find >someone there to discuss crochet with :-) But what about when the >volume of mail gets larger and people start complaining that they have >to wade through too much irrelevant crap? How are you going to deal >with that? (Not saying you can't, just looking for a plan) > Sure you can as if others are into crochet on the list, and if someone replies, you can take the discussion off the list...it is rather easy to add a group of people to a group in your addressbook, like get a list of people who like FreeBSD and crochet, and put those people in your addressbook uner a group called crochet. If the volume of mail gets too large, and the members don't like it, UNSUBSCRIBE or set up a "junk" account like on one of the free email services, in case you might want to monitor the list, and keep it out of your more important mail. > >Also, it sounds like you're still focussed on housing the list as the >major hurdle and planning to do it yourself (but maybe I'm wrong here). >Just about any newbie has the skills to set up a mailing list. The >planning and people skills to make it work is another matter. > The list is already set up. >There could be problems with presenting it as a FreeBSD list if it is >believed to have the potential to cause problems for FreeBSD. For >example, if someone believed that it would encourage misinformation that >put an added burden on the regular FreeBSD support system, or that it >would make FreeBSD look bad in some way, you could have problems. >Be careful what you call it and how you promote it. Do you hope to >get any support from the existing FreeBSD structures? Will you be >asking those who volunteer on the freebsd-questions list to help out on >your list instead? Will they feel they have a duty to monitor both >lists? Something to consider your position on. > Anyone is welcome to subscribe to the list...if it all newbies, so be it. People can learn on their own and share with the list. I made a note that this list is no way connected to FreeBSD Inc., but no one can control thought or what we of this list say. They may disagree with it and find it "harmful", well, I guess those people should worry about something else :) > >> Being ex-military, I have no problem sending in a SEAL team to silence >> someone, or if I'm lazy....just launch a little cruise missle :) , or >> removing them from the list, but it would take a lot for me to do >> that....I'm just a laid back type of guy. >> Gotta be laid back to sit in traffic here in Silicon Valley, hehe. > >You were probably only joking, but if you attract other people with >that attitude you might find it a little... distracting :-) > Yes I was joking.... I live the exciting life in Technical Support, I'm used to responding to large volumes of email, and like I said...I'm still searching for a life on sale at one of the local retailers, but until then....i have plenty of free time. Once I find the money for my DSL line...i'll just run the list on my own fbsd box at home. no biggie. Regards, Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 26 22:39:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA11267 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:39:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-gw5.pacbell.net (mail-gw5.pacbell.net [206.13.28.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA11256 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:39:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gekk0@usa.net) Received: from rjiredff (ppp-207-214-213-29.sntc01.pacbell.net [207.214.213.29]) by mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id WAA21374 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:38:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980826223845.00798700@pop.netaddress.com> X-Sender: gekk0@pop.netaddress.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:38:45 -0700 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: gek Subject: my list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi All, I apologize for the mass amount of email concerning this latest development. I set up a new list for FreeBSD newbies, to subscribe, just send a blank email to: fbsd-newbies-subscribe@makelist.com (original name eh? :) ) The list is set up for people new to FreeBSD to discuss and ask questions regarding FreeBSD. The list is target towards "newbies", so just remember that a answer to the question you ask may not be able to be answered by list memebers. Eventually I would like to develop a FAQ, to answer some of the simple questions, how to I delete a file, etc....Anyone interested in being the FAQ maintainer? :) I am not trying to compete with this list, but offer people another avenue to pursue their questions. The rules for this list are: 1) No spam 2) No excessive flaming 3) Try to keep it somewhat related to FreeBSD 4) Only members of the list can post to the list. If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to ask. Regards, Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 26 22:39:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA11285 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:39:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA11247 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:39:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA21296; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:38:35 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980827153830.00276@welearn.com.au> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:38:31 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: gek Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How would it work? References: <3.0.5.32.19980826211949.00797b60@pop.netaddress.com> <3.0.5.32.19980826190359.0079d730@pop.netaddress.com> <3.0.5.32.19980826190359.0079d730@pop.netaddress.com> <19980827135247.43750@welearn.com.au> <3.0.5.32.19980826211949.00797b60@pop.netaddress.com> <19980827145246.26504@welearn.com.au> <3.0.5.32.19980826221156.00799aa0@pop.netaddress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980826221156.00799aa0@pop.netaddress.com>; from gek on Wed, Aug 26, 1998 at 10:11:56PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Aug 26, 1998 at 10:11:56PM -0700, gek wrote: > At 02:52 PM 8/27/98 +1000, you wrote: > >Ah, good, you're beginning to look at it :-) > > > >On Wed, Aug 26, 1998 at 09:19:49PM -0700, gek wrote: > >> How will this happen? hrm.. > >> > >> 1) People subscribe > > > >Is it open to all? > > Yeppa, and it is unmoderated...I can always moderate it later if need be, > but I would only do that if the list became a big spam target. Right, so you say apart from spam anything goes? > >> 2) People ask questions, chat, discuss FreeBSD, etc > > > >What types of questions would it cover? > >What types of questions would it not cover? > >How would someone asking a question decide if it is appropriate? > > > People can ask anything...as long as they know the members of the list may > not know the answer. How will you ensure they know that? > As long as it is related to FreeBSD in general...or I don't even care if > peopl just discuss computers...as long as there are not any "holy wars" Oh, so if it's not related to computers or FreeBSD it's not allowed? Which way is it? > >> 3) People either respond or delete the message > > > >What sort of people would be responding? > > > Anyone who thought they might be able to help... > > >> As long as people understand that this new list is targeted towards people > >> new to FreeBSD, and that some of the questions they ask may not get > >> answered on the list. > >> Someone may of gone through the same pain someone else is asking about, and > >> may feel like helping > > > > > >OK. What is going to happen when someone gives some advice that is > >incorrect? Who will know that it's incorrect? How will it be dealt > >with? > > > Well...to live and learn i guess. This isn't a perfect world. > The best way to learn, is to try... > Remember this is a "newbie" list...not a kernel hacker list. Is it specifically for newbies who are running it on their own experimental machines at home, or for newbies who are running their business (or someone else's) on FreeBSD, or both? > >> Who would run it? run what? I don't run a dictatorship > >> > >> The 2 rules: > >> 1) No excessive flaming > >> 2) no spam > > > >So you're not going to have any requirement about keeping to the topic > >of the list. That'll give it a nice sense of freedom. I might even find > >someone there to discuss crochet with :-) But what about when the > >volume of mail gets larger and people start complaining that they have > >to wade through too much irrelevant crap? How are you going to deal > >with that? (Not saying you can't, just looking for a plan) > > > Sure you can as if others are into crochet on the list, and if > someone replies, you can take the discussion off the list... Oh, so now you're saying I can't discuss crochet on the list, only computers and FreeBSD? So you do have a topic restriction? Which way is it? > it is rather easy to add a group of people to a group in your > addressbook, like get a list of people who like FreeBSD and crochet, > and put those people in your addressbook uner a group called crochet. Yes, you're telling me how to get my damn crochet off your list :-) Not that I would argue, just trying establish your true range of restrictions. > If the volume of mail gets too large, and the members don't like it, > UNSUBSCRIBE or set up a "junk" account like on one of the free email > services, in case you might want to monitor the list, and keep it out of > your more important mail. ... or is that what you're saying? If crochet chat swells out the list, just learn to live with it? Or crochet goes, but if FreeBSD chat swells out the list, live with it? > >Also, it sounds like you're still focussed on housing the list as the > >major hurdle and planning to do it yourself (but maybe I'm wrong here). > >Just about any newbie has the skills to set up a mailing list. The > >planning and people skills to make it work is another matter. > > > The list is already set up. What I said. > >There could be problems with presenting it as a FreeBSD list if it is > >believed to have the potential to cause problems for FreeBSD. For > >example, if someone believed that it would encourage misinformation that > >put an added burden on the regular FreeBSD support system, or that it > >would make FreeBSD look bad in some way, you could have problems. > >Be careful what you call it and how you promote it. Do you hope to > >get any support from the existing FreeBSD structures? Will you be > >asking those who volunteer on the freebsd-questions list to help out on > >your list instead? Will they feel they have a duty to monitor both > >lists? Something to consider your position on. > > > Anyone is welcome to subscribe to the list...if it all newbies, so be it. > People can learn on their own and share with the list. > I made a note that this list is no way connected to FreeBSD Inc., but > no one can control thought or what we of this list say. > They may disagree with it and find it "harmful", well, I guess those people > should worry about something else :) > > > > >> Being ex-military, I have no problem sending in a SEAL team to silence > >> someone, or if I'm lazy....just launch a little cruise missle :) , or > >> removing them from the list, but it would take a lot for me to do > >> that....I'm just a laid back type of guy. > >> Gotta be laid back to sit in traffic here in Silicon Valley, hehe. > > > >You were probably only joking, but if you attract other people with > >that attitude you might find it a little... distracting :-) > > > Yes I was joking.... > I live the exciting life in Technical Support, I'm used to responding to > large volumes of email, and like I said...I'm still searching for a life on > sale at one of the local retailers, but until then....i have plenty of free > time. So, what happens if you suddenly find you don't have so much free time? > Once I find the money for my DSL line...i'll just run the list on my own > fbsd box at home. no biggie. Oh, so you're not running it yourself then? -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 26 23:07:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA14258 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:07:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-gw5.pacbell.net (mail-gw5.pacbell.net [206.13.28.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA14243 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:07:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gekk0@usa.net) Received: from rjiredff (ppp-207-214-213-29.sntc01.pacbell.net [207.214.213.29]) by mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id XAA28213; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:05:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980826230524.007a3e30@pop.netaddress.com> X-Sender: gekk0@pop.netaddress.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:05:24 -0700 To: Sue Blake From: gek Subject: Re: How would it work? Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980827153830.00276@welearn.com.au> References: <3.0.5.32.19980826221156.00799aa0@pop.netaddress.com> <3.0.5.32.19980826211949.00797b60@pop.netaddress.com> <3.0.5.32.19980826190359.0079d730@pop.netaddress.com> <3.0.5.32.19980826190359.0079d730@pop.netaddress.com> <19980827135247.43750@welearn.com.au> <3.0.5.32.19980826211949.00797b60@pop.netaddress.com> <19980827145246.26504@welearn.com.au> <3.0.5.32.19980826221156.00799aa0@pop.netaddress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Lets see, your either reading too much into my words, or trying to twist my words, or just don't want me to start a new list, or trying to point out the "troubles" in starting a new list....or some of each. OK....one more time. It is a FreeBSD newbies list. It is related to freebsd, and generally freebsd would be the topic. Someone who would prefer to talk primarily about dog traning would not join this list, at least I would look for a list about training dogs, not some list to help people new to a Operating System. If you want to find people to crochet with, there is no harm in saying "hey, anyone in Australia intertested in getting a weekly crochet session going, email me". I have no problem with that...my delete button works great, but if the talk was "what color of yarn should I for this white horse, or how many cross-stitches does..., etc etc" this chat can be taken to a list about crochet. My life does not revolve around freebsd, and I have other interests. If people want to you the list as a way to say hey...those of us in a general area lets get to lunch, or who wants to go club hopping up in the city, groovy, so be it. How will they know this a list targeted to newbies? I don't know, they cold read the email addy of the list (fbsd-newbies), that is a good clue. I would think people would engage their brain, and it does take a brain to run FreeBSD. What if I run short on time? I could always ask for help...no shame in that. I'm sure when I go on vacation, I'm sure someone would be willing to monitor things, to ensure no one was being blatantly hostile. If a community cannot communicate openly, then that community will soon die. I am the list manager, but am not running it on my server. I have already had a offer to run this list on another server, other than my current list server. I am not in competion with this list, only providing another source to seek help. Regards, Kevin to subscribe: fbsd-newbies-subscribe@makelist.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 26 23:10:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA15081 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:10:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA15044 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:10:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA21420; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:09:15 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980827160910.59643@welearn.com.au> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:09:10 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: gek Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: my list References: <3.0.5.32.19980826223845.00798700@pop.netaddress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980826223845.00798700@pop.netaddress.com>; from gek on Wed, Aug 26, 1998 at 10:38:45PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Aug 26, 1998 at 10:38:45PM -0700, gek wrote: > > I am not trying to compete with this list, but offer people another avenue > to pursue their questions. Of course not :-) Anyone who had ever read the charter for this list would realise that the two lists have nothing whatsoever in common. What you are setting out to do is almost exactly the same as freebsd-questions, but without the expertise. Sometimes I wonder if anyone will read any list charter though, even yours. Let's see how it pans out. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Aug 26 23:19:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA16739 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:19:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA16710 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:19:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA21439; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:17:47 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980827161743.42113@welearn.com.au> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:17:44 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: gek Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How would it work? References: <3.0.5.32.19980826221156.00799aa0@pop.netaddress.com> <3.0.5.32.19980826211949.00797b60@pop.netaddress.com> <3.0.5.32.19980826190359.0079d730@pop.netaddress.com> <3.0.5.32.19980826190359.0079d730@pop.netaddress.com> <19980827135247.43750@welearn.com.au> <3.0.5.32.19980826211949.00797b60@pop.netaddress.com> <19980827145246.26504@welearn.com.au> <3.0.5.32.19980826221156.00799aa0@pop.netaddress.com> <19980827153830.00276@welearn.com.au> <3.0.5.32.19980826230524.007a3e30@pop.netaddress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980826230524.007a3e30@pop.netaddress.com>; from gek on Wed, Aug 26, 1998 at 11:05:24PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Aug 26, 1998 at 11:05:24PM -0700, gek wrote: > Lets see, your either reading too much into my words, or trying to twist my > words, or just don't want me to start a new list, or trying to point out > the "troubles" in starting a new list....or some of each. I'm trying to sort out what you actually meant when you said there are no rules about what people can talk about. There seemed to be a few ifs and buts that you were working out as you went, and they are gradually coming together. Now I see that it does, indeed, have a broad topic are that list members are supposed to keep to. That is all a wanted to establish. > If a community cannot communicate openly, then that community will soon die. Quite true. > I am not in competion with this list, only providing another source to seek > help. Of course not. You're in competition with freebsd-questions, and that doesn't concern us, it's just the place we get our free support services. Since we don't seem able to communicate what changes we would like to see to freebsd-questions to make it palatable for newbies, maybe this is the best way of working out what our alternatives are. Regardless, we have freebsd-newbies as an optional forum for discussing such matters on neutral ground. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Aug 27 01:36:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA04866 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 01:36:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA04861 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 01:36:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA06772; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:05:12 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id SAA15503; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:05:08 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980827180508.F14055@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:05:08 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: gek , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: my list References: <3.0.5.32.19980826223845.00798700@pop.netaddress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980826223845.00798700@pop.netaddress.com>; from gek on Wed, Aug 26, 1998 at 10:38:45PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wednesday, 26 August 1998 at 22:38:45 -0700, gek wrote: > Hi All, > > I apologize for the mass amount of email concerning this latest development. > > I set up a new list for FreeBSD newbies, to subscribe, just send a blank > email to: > fbsd-newbies-subscribe@makelist.com (original name eh? :) ) > > The list is set up for people new to FreeBSD to discuss and ask questions > regarding FreeBSD. The list is target towards "newbies", so just remember > that a answer to the question you ask may not be able to be answered by > list memebers. > > Eventually I would like to develop a FAQ, to answer some of the simple > questions, how to I delete a file, etc....Anyone interested in being the > FAQ maintainer? :) > > I am not trying to compete with this list, but offer people another avenue > to pursue their questions. > > The rules for this list are: > 1) No spam > 2) No excessive flaming > 3) Try to keep it somewhat related to FreeBSD > 4) Only members of the list can post to the list. > > If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to ask. Basically, only one: what will this list do which isn't already covered by the FreeBSD lists? I appreciate your good intentions, but I think you might be going about it the wrong way. There are lots of things for people to do to help the FreeBSD project--in your case, I could think of answering questions, updating documentation, maybe even helping maintain the *official* FAQ (you'll have to discuss that with Doug White if you're interested). I think we have too many lists already. From before the inception of FreeBSD-newbies, I had long discussions with Sue Blake about whether we needed -newbies. The jury's still out on that one, but I can't think of an earthly reason to have another one, especially not one which sounds like -newbies. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Aug 27 02:33:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA14487 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 02:33:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA14466 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 02:33:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA21977; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:31:55 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980827193150.57832@welearn.com.au> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:31:51 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Greg Lehey Cc: gek , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: my list References: <3.0.5.32.19980826223845.00798700@pop.netaddress.com> <19980827180508.F14055@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <19980827180508.F14055@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Thu, Aug 27, 1998 at 06:05:08PM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Aug 27, 1998 at 06:05:08PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > > I think we have too many lists already. From before the inception of > FreeBSD-newbies, I had long discussions with Sue Blake about whether > we needed -newbies. The jury's still out on that one, but I can't > think of an earthly reason to have another one, especially not one > which sounds like -newbies. I'll try to summarise... The reasons given recently have included that freebsd-questions is too much mail for most home-user newbies to cope with, most of which is "noise" to us in that it's too hard to understand, can't be used and is not relevant. Also, there are people who want to have the chance to give tips to others, even though they don't know much. Such tips are so elementary that they would sound silly somewhere like freebsd-questions. And for whatever reason, there is still a perception that the purpose of freebsd-questions is not to help newbies. We haven't found ways to change any of these things from our end within the existing system, nor have our needs and inhibitions been acknowledged as real. So some have decided to go outside the system and work as best they can with peers, rather than try to explain it all again to people who they imagine cannot understand. There will be problems either way, so what is there to lose? I agree about the name though. Asking for and giving help are things that everyone does, and in my mind they have nothing special to do with being a newbie. I don't like being defined in terms of helplessness. But when newbies are the only ones without a convenient way to *give* help, then I suppose that deprivation makes it relevant. Still, the name's bad. It should have been called something like fbsd-help. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Aug 27 07:48:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA20384 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 07:48:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from okeefe.bestweb.net (okeefe.bestweb.net [209.94.100.110]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA20367 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 07:48:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@bestweb.net) Received: from immortal.bestweb.net (immortal.bestweb.net [209.94.111.41]) by okeefe.bestweb.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA29619 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:47:24 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: "Mark Dickey" From: "Mark Dickey" To: Subject: Re: my list Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:48:21 -0400 Message-ID: <01bdd1c9$bc4df820$296f5ed1@immortal.bestweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org PS (Pre-Script): This was originally addressed to just Greg, but I think, since it has ideas in it also, it should go to everyone. Sorry if you do not agree. Now, before you read what I say, make sure you know that I am not running the new list and only know what I have heard from the exisiting e-mails. (I also have a good idea what perspective he is coming from, though.) Also, remember this is all just my opinion, I have no actual facts, just what I think from what I have seen/thought. >> If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to ask. > >Basically, only one: what will this list do which isn't already >covered by the FreeBSD lists? > >I appreciate your good intentions, but I think you might be going >about it the wrong way. There are lots of things for people to do to >help the FreeBSD project--in your case, I could think of answering >questions, updating documentation, maybe even helping maintain the >*official* FAQ (you'll have to discuss that with Doug White if you're >interested). Hmmm......Some of what you say is true here. The intentions are good, someone wants to help FreeBSD, which is great. However, you say they could answer questions, update docs, or work on the official FAQ. Now, that is true of someone who has been working with FreeBSD for a while and wants to help. But what happens when someone who might not know so much wants to help with that stuff. Either information will be directly given to them to add, in which case the person who assigns it to the person helping must go over the information first to make sure everything is correct. Same goes for the docs, and if it is a newbie, there isn't much chance they can help much with the questions in freebsd-questions. (Not true, but those easy questions are answered almost instantly. I think anyway, I'm not positive since I don't read many of them anymore.) Now, if you ignore the fact that a newbie might not be able to error check the information entered (for the docs or FAQ) that is absolutely true and I agree. > >I think we have too many lists already. From before the inception of >FreeBSD-newbies, I had long discussions with Sue Blake about whether >we needed -newbies. The jury's still out on that one, but I can't >think of an earthly reason to have another one, especially not one >which sounds like -newbies. I'm not sure I agree. Out of the different lists, if you look at the usefulness of them to a newbie, FreeBSD question and FreeBSD-newbie are the only two lists that are possible. (All the other lists are definetly too advanced, and I get the feeling that a newbie questions wouldn't be welcome in the specific ones, such as ISP-Hackers. Again, I don't know this, but I rarely see a newbie question in there.) If you take a look at FreeBSD-questions, it gets a real lot of e-mail, more than can reasonably be read by each person. (At least each person that has a full-time job and has things to do). That means the newbie would have to scan through the messages trying to find those that he/she might be able to find useful/unserstand. Now, although subjects often will describe a message, it doesn't help to show if it is a "newbie understandable" message. That would mean they would have to scan each message itself, which I covered already. Now, on the subject of asking a question there, yes, a newbie can do that and it is probably the orientation of the list. However, from the amount of e-mail, and the "non-understandablitity" of most of them to a newbie, it is a little daunting. Also, the purpose of the new list is not so much to ask questions, but to impart what knowledge they have gained and to talk to others just barely starting up. Now, my overall opinion is that it would be better if the newbies had a good place on the FreeBSD-lists and not go somewhere else. However, if this is not possible on the existing lists, or I should say on the existing perspective of the lists, a new list should be created. What I would say should be done is the FreeBSD-Newbies should keep the same name, but it should be for those who are just starting FreeBSD and have any random, very newbie question and/or information they want to ask/share. What I would like to see is a list where people can ask questions like "how do I delete a file" and "how do I see/change permissions". They can also inpart the information gained when installing FreeBSD on their computer, like "If you have two hard drives and windows is on the first, you need to manually install the boot manager from the disk or ftp site by doing ..." These are reasonable things for a newbie, but if a lot of stuff like this was added to the already heavy traffic in Free-BSD-questions, it would get insane for everyone, not just difficult for newbies. >From these things, a FAQ could be maintained that is organized for newbies. Such as when the answers for the different questions were posted, whoever asked originally should send it to the FAQ where it would be added. Such as the "delete a file question" At first the FAQ wouldn't be much help, but it would build up, answering the specific newbie questions, but having the information easily available in a way that newbies can use it. Using the "delete a file" The faq could contain first just "rm" and a link to the man page on FreeBSD, but then it would gain "rm -r" and "rm -f" then maybe information on creating a small script in place of rm that doesn't delete the file completetly, but saves the file for a while so it is recoverable. Things of this sort would be very useful to a newbie. (My examples arn't that great, but I hope you get the idea). This would also create a forum where just stories about things that happened to them could be shared. Ok, I think I've wasted too much of your time sending this, and too much of mine. :-) I got a little carried away. hehe Anyway, I think this covers what I think pretty well. (Just let me know if you want me to send another essay in :-) ) > >Greg >-- >See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers >finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > Later all. Mark Dickey mark@bestweb.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Aug 27 08:23:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA24370 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 08:23:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zephyr.cybercom.net (zephyr.cybercom.net [209.21.146.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA24363 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 08:23:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ksmm@threespace.com) Received: from shell1.cybercom.net (ksmm@shell1.cybercom.net [209.21.136.6]) by zephyr.cybercom.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA27371 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:23:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ksmm@localhost) by shell1.cybercom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA22179 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:23:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell1.cybercom.net: ksmm owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:22:59 -0400 (EDT) From: The Classiest Man Alive X-Sender: ksmm@shell1.cybercom.net To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: my list In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980826223845.00798700@pop.netaddress.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I fail to understand what services this list will provide that are not already covered by one of the existing FreeBSD lists. If I want to chat about FreeBSD, I've got freebsd-chat. If I want to ask questions about FreeBSD, I've got freebsd-questions. If I want to discuss my limited FreeBSD knowledge, I've got freebsd-newbies. And there's already a pretty good FAQ and website in place. It sounds like this new list will do everything mentioned above, but not quite as well as any of the above. And by the way, anybody who thinks that the volume of freebsd-questions is excessive hasn't been counting the number of messages posted to *this* list daily. K.S. On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, gek wrote: : Hi All, : : I apologize for the mass amount of email concerning this latest development. : : I set up a new list for FreeBSD newbies, to subscribe, just send a blank : email to: : fbsd-newbies-subscribe@makelist.com (original name eh? :) ) : : The list is set up for people new to FreeBSD to discuss and ask questions : regarding FreeBSD. The list is target towards "newbies", so just remember : that a answer to the question you ask may not be able to be answered by : list memebers. : : Eventually I would like to develop a FAQ, to answer some of the simple : questions, how to I delete a file, etc....Anyone interested in being the : FAQ maintainer? :) : : I am not trying to compete with this list, but offer people another avenue : to pursue their questions. : : The rules for this list are: : 1) No spam : 2) No excessive flaming : 3) Try to keep it somewhat related to FreeBSD : 4) Only members of the list can post to the list. : : If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to ask. : : Regards, : Kevin : : : To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org : with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message : To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Aug 27 08:48:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA27710 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 08:48:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from okeefe.bestweb.net (okeefe.bestweb.net [209.94.100.110]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA27696 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 08:48:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@bestweb.net) Received: from immortal.bestweb.net (immortal.bestweb.net [209.94.111.41]) by okeefe.bestweb.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA02986 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:47:50 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: "Mark Dickey" From: "Mark Dickey" To: Subject: Re: my list Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:48:47 -0400 Message-ID: <01bdd1d2$2d94b660$296f5ed1@immortal.bestweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----Original Message----- From: The Classiest Man Alive To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thursday, August 27, 1998 11:28 AM Subject: Re: my list >I fail to understand what services this list will provide that are not >already covered by one of the existing FreeBSD lists. > >If I want to chat about FreeBSD, I've got freebsd-chat. Hmmm.....I don't know, never joined it. Does this have stuff on "These were my experiences"? > >If I want to ask questions about FreeBSD, I've got freebsd-questions. > >If I want to discuss my limited FreeBSD knowledge, I've got >freebsd-newbies. Ummm....I'm not sure, but wasn't that the problem, that newbies wasn't "catering" to those with limited knowledge? > >And there's already a pretty good FAQ and website in place. > >It sounds like this new list will do everything mentioned above, but not >quite as well as any of the above. Almost right, but not quite. The new list would do all of those things, just for newbies, in one list. It would be a more "casual" list. (I think) > >And by the way, anybody who thinks that the volume of freebsd-questions is >excessive hasn't been counting the number of messages posted to *this* >list daily. Heh, FreeBSD-Newbies gets maybe 30 messages while I have something like 300 in questions, or maybe it was 600, and inet-access was 300. > >K.S. > > >On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, gek wrote: > >: Hi All, >: >: I apologize for the mass amount of email concerning this latest development. >: >: I set up a new list for FreeBSD newbies, to subscribe, just send a blank >: email to: >: fbsd-newbies-subscribe@makelist.com (original name eh? :) ) >: >: The list is set up for people new to FreeBSD to discuss and ask questions >: regarding FreeBSD. The list is target towards "newbies", so just remember >: that a answer to the question you ask may not be able to be answered by >: list memebers. >: >: Eventually I would like to develop a FAQ, to answer some of the simple >: questions, how to I delete a file, etc....Anyone interested in being the >: FAQ maintainer? :) >: >: I am not trying to compete with this list, but offer people another avenue >: to pursue their questions. >: >: The rules for this list are: >: 1) No spam >: 2) No excessive flaming >: 3) Try to keep it somewhat related to FreeBSD >: 4) Only members of the list can post to the list. >: >: If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to ask. >: >: Regards, >: Kevin >: >: >: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >: with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message >: > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Aug 27 09:19:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA02185 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 09:19:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from armstrong-bh.armstrong.com (armstrong-bh.armstrong.com [198.76.107.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA02176 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 09:19:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Edmund_L_Mulligan@armstrong.com) From: Edmund_L_Mulligan@armstrong.com Received: (from uucp@localhost) by armstrong-bh.armstrong.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) id MAA28605 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 12:18:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailex01.armstrong.com(172.16.23.51) by armstrong-bh.armstrong.com via smap (4.1) id xma028468; Thu, 27 Aug 98 12:18:28 -0400 Received: by mailex01.Armstrong.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) id 8525666D.005A1681 ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 12:24:00 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ARMSTRONG To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <8625666D.0056DF76.00@mailex01.Armstrong.com> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:18:23 -0500 Subject: Re: my list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org For me, my aborted attempt to install FreeBSD by FTP is my first time administering a Unix-like system in any form. (It was running but I gave up fumbling with it. I will be back, with purchased book and CDROMs, whenever v3.x comes out. Slow home access and work firewalls make downloading a pain. Is the published book better than the on-line documentation?) Questions runs, on average, above the level of the new user. It is fine for people who are familiar with Unix like operating systems. Most of the messages there are really just noise to the beginner, especially since the answer makes no more sense than the question. I know the volume was causing problems for my mail system here. There needs to be a difference indicated between questions about: A. getting FreeBSD installed and properly running and learning how to work with the file system and the commands B. doing things with the system once you understand Unix style operating systems - using it for real applications Kind of freebsd-qlearning vs. freebsd-qusing. So far the documentation seems to be mostly for, and written on the level of, type B users. I hate always sounding like the dumb guy, but having some simple documentation walking me through all the possible options in the initial kernel setup would have saved me two evenings of work. Most times, and this is in many things not just freebsd, the real help for the new user comes from another new user who just got done getting through the same problem rather than the "old-hand" who just assumes you know the little tricks. Yes, the real gurus would need to monitor both lists but this should be the same volume of mail - just divided into two streams to help out the new users. Did anyone else note that for all the complaints about what is -newbies supposed to do, we've been using it properly? To support and discuss issues related to new users that are not technical questions best handled on -questions. We've been trying to design a better support system for new users, and all of this would have really been noise on the -questions list. Thanks, Sue! Ed speaking for me, not for Armstrong -------------------------------------------------------------- From: sue@welearn.com.au on 08/27/98 07:31 PM ZE10 To: grog@lemis.com cc: gekk0@usa.net, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG (bcc: Edmund L Mulligan/Stillwater/FPO/Armstrong) Subject: Re: my list The reasons given recently have included that freebsd-questions is too much mail for most home-user newbies to cope with, most of which is "noise" to us in that it's too hard to understand, can't be used and is not relevant. Also, there are people who want to have the chance to give tips to others, even though they don't know much. Such tips are so elementary that they would sound silly somewhere like freebsd-questions. And for whatever reason, there is still a perception that the purpose of freebsd-questions is not to help newbies. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Aug 27 11:13:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA23734 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:13:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from beowulf.llnl.gov (beowulf.llnl.gov [128.115.12.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA23701 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:13:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dsyphers@beowulf.llnl.gov) Received: from beowulf.llnl.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beowulf.llnl.gov (8.8.5/LLNL-3.0.2) with ESMTP id LAA21011; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:12:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808271812.LAA21011@beowulf.llnl.gov> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:12:38 -0700 (PDT) From: David Syphers Subject: Re: unsubscribe To: gekk0@usa.net cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980826190359.0079d730@pop.netaddress.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 26 Aug, gek wrote: > Sub to that list and you're mail box will be filled with email, some > qustions are basic, others are extremely technical. > > If anyone is interested, just let me know. I'd be interested... -David Syphers "Stop turning into a penguin!" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Aug 27 11:34:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27068 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:34:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spectre.honk.org (honk.org [206.191.48.225]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27061 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:34:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mpoulin@honk.org) Received: from sw47 ([207.219.2.29]) by spectre.honk.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA03768 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 13:23:36 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980827143223.0090a260@honk.org> X-Sender: mpoulin@honk.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:32:23 -0400 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Martin Poulin Subject: Re: my list In-Reply-To: <8625666D.0056DF76.00@mailex01.Armstrong.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:18 AM 8/27/98 -0500, Edmund_L_Mulligan@armstrong.com wrote: > >For me, my aborted attempt to install FreeBSD by FTP is my first time >administering a Unix-like system in any form. (It was running but I gave up >fumbling with it. I will be back, with purchased book and CDROMs, whenever v3.x >comes out. Slow home access and work firewalls make downloading a pain. Is the >published book better than the on-line documentation?) Not having seen any books on FreeBSD, I can't answer that. I can say for certainty though, that the online documentation will always be more up-to date than any printed medium. Add in the ability to search for specific topics... surely you can see my point. (BTW - I installed the full 2.2.7-release version by FTP from home over a 28.8 modem. It took about 8 hours for the download. I don't find that too slow - just get it started and then go do something else until it's done. Then again, if you aren't in North America I can see how 8 hours on the phone can be quite costly.) >Questions runs, on average, above the level of the new user. It is fine >for people who are familiar with Unix like operating systems. Most of >the messages there are really just noise to the beginner, especially since >the answer makes no more sense than the question. There is no need to subscribe to freebsd-questions. I made that mistake a while back, and quickly realized that: a) if you have a question, mail it to -questions and they will reply to you directly - no need to wade through the list each day. b) you can search the mailing list at http://www.freebsd.org/search/ This eliminates the need to subscribe since you can search for what you are looking for. If you don't find the answer you are looking for, see part a) above. c) there are TONS of resources out there. Just today I wanted to find out how to add a 2nd hard drive to my system. I found a step-by-step tutorial at http://www.freebsd.org/tutorials/diskformat/ (btw - I found the reference to the tutorial by searching the mailing list archives). > >There needs to be a difference indicated between questions about: >A. getting FreeBSD installed and properly running and learning how to work with >the file system and the commands >B. doing things with the system once you understand Unix style operating >systems - using it for real applications > But this information is all out there. There are countless tutorials on learning the *nix environment. And as for installing, the FreeBSD handbook is really all you need to get started. >Kind of freebsd-qlearning vs. freebsd-qusing. So far the documentation seems to >be mostly for, and written on the level of, type B users. I hate always >sounding like the dumb guy, but having some simple documentation walking me >through all the possible options in the initial kernel setup would have saved me >two evenings of work. What was wrong with the Handbook? I admit that the first time I tried to wrap my mind around some of the very different (compared to MS) concepts of FreeBSD, I got a little confused, but by following the step-by-step install section of the Handbook, I had a working system up and running in no time. Sure, I made mistakes along the way, but that's how you learn. > >Most times, and this is in many things not just freebsd, the real help for the >new user comes from another new user who just got done getting through the same >problem rather than the "old-hand" who just assumes you know the little tricks. Yes, and that's what this list is for. Except that rather than giving out technical information, we discuss *what* we did, and *where* we got the info, and we can point other newbies in the same direction without giving erroneous information on *how* something is done. >Did anyone else note that for all the complaints about what is -newbies supposed >to do, we've been using it properly? Yes, and I agree that we can thank Sue for keeping this list under control. M. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Aug 27 11:34:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27129 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:34:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from beowulf.llnl.gov (beowulf.llnl.gov [128.115.12.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27110 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:34:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dsyphers@beowulf.llnl.gov) Received: from beowulf.llnl.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beowulf.llnl.gov (8.8.5/LLNL-3.0.2) with ESMTP id LAA21075; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:33:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808271833.LAA21075@beowulf.llnl.gov> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:33:25 -0700 (PDT) From: David Syphers Subject: Re: my list To: grog@lemis.com cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980827180508.F14055@freebie.lemis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 27 Aug, Greg Lehey wrote: > Basically, only one: what will this list do which isn't already > covered by the FreeBSD lists? If I'm not mistaken, it will be a place where people can ask newbie questions and not be deluged with some of the rather technical stuff that goes on on -questions. Sort of a mixture of -questions and -newbies. > I think we have too many lists already. From before the inception of > FreeBSD-newbies, I had long discussions with Sue Blake about whether > we needed -newbies. Not the way it is, no, I don't think we need it. I think we need a list like the one proposed, where ignorant people like me can ask questions that we would feel silly asking on -questions. Just as a side note, I still am subscribed to -questions because some useful things go on there - it's a vitally necessary list. However, I spend much of my time deleting messages that I can't understand, which understandably doesn't do wonders for my ego. >The jury's still out on that one, but I can't > think of an earthly reason to have another one, especially not one > which sounds like -newbies. As both sides of the argument have pointed out, it's not like -newbies at all. It's rather more like a -questions for beginners (as I understand it). -David Syphers (please cc: any replies, as I am no longer subscribed to -newbies) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Aug 27 12:25:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08002 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 12:25:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spectre.honk.org (honk.org [206.191.48.225]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA07928 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 12:25:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mpoulin@honk.org) Received: from sw47 ([207.219.2.29]) by spectre.honk.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA03869 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:15:09 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980827152357.009063e0@honk.org> X-Sender: mpoulin@honk.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:23:57 -0400 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Martin Poulin Subject: Back on topic... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I know the Handbook says at least a 386DX with 8MB of RAM is the recommended minimum, but let's be a little more realistic. What would you consider to be the minimum system to have a decent installation of FreeBSD running? Also, what do you think would be a good amount of disk space to set aside for FreeBSD (I guess that depends on what you plan to install). For that matter, what do you consider a "decent installation"? I am currently running 2.2.7-release with full sources, X, and a few ports (Netscape, XFMail, FVWM2, XMame, rxvt...) on a 486DX4 100 with 16MB RAM and 540MB HD. I find that I am running into 2 problems: - X runs VERY slowly at times - especially running Netscape and XMame. (I never realized Pac-Man could be soooo slow). - I have run out of disk space. (95% capacity in /usr if I delete my Netscape cache - otherwise 106% capacity!!) So in my case, a 486 with 16 MB ram is way too slow, and I need tons more disk space. If I wasn't running X, it would be a different story. The first time I installed FreeBSD, I installed 2.2.5-release on 250MB. (The same 486 system dual-booting with win95) No sources, no X, just a bare-bones install that worked quite nicely. I even had room to install a few of my favorite apps (pine, lynx etc.) So in my opinion, you can definitely run FreeBSD quite well on a small system, as long as you do a small install. If you want a kick-ass install, you simply need a bigger system. Funny - the reason I got this little system to begin with was to use it as a firewall for the bigger system that I planned to buy to run Windows. Now I still want the bigger system, but not for Windows any more! m. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Aug 27 12:36:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA10637 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 12:36:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt053nb4.san.rr.com (dt053nb4.san.rr.com [204.210.34.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA10556 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 12:36:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt053nb4.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA07345; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 12:35:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <35E5B4F5.1CB3E401@dal.net> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 12:35:17 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE-0823 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake CC: Malartre , newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cya, I unsubscribe References: <35E34040.C7262CFF@aei.ca> <19980826095811.36432@welearn.com.au> <35E3648B.E04115A7@aei.ca> <19980826114639.65419@welearn.com.au> <35E38D78.FB65D078@aei.ca> <19980826144551.28319@welearn.com.au> <35E3A4B3.DCCE1689@aei.ca> <19980826165234.19194@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue Blake wrote: > What I said to you was that if you want to have a place where newbies > can teach and learn from other newbies, fine, but plan it and execute > it properly, from the ground up. I also offered to help you, because > it's a lot of work. That offer is still open. Here is the charter from http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/handbook345.html. Can you please explain to me how Malartre sharing something he learned (by asking an excellent question on -questions and digesting the responses) as a new user on the new user's list violates this charter? It seems to me that he followed the proper procedures, then fed back a handy tip that other new users might miss. I just can't see where that is a bad thing. Doug FREEBSD-NEWBIES Newbies activities discussion We cover any of the activities of newbies that are not already dealt with elsewhere, including: independent learning and problem solving techniques, finding and using resources and asking for help elsewhere, how to use mailing lists and which lists to use, general chat, making mistakes, boasting, sharing ideas, stories, moral (but not technical) support, and taking an active part in the FreeBSD community. We take our problems and support questions to freebsd-questions, and use freebsd-newbies to meet others who are doing the same things that we do as newbies. -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** When you don't know where you're going, every road will take you there. - Yiddish Proverb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Aug 27 15:11:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA12283 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:11:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gutenberg.uoregon.edu (gutenberg.uoregon.edu [128.223.56.211]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12227 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:11:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sharding@gutenberg.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (sharding@localhost) by gutenberg.uoregon.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA01355; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:10:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:10:21 -0700 From: Sean Harding Reply-To: Sean Harding To: Martin Poulin cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Back on topic... In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980827152357.009063e0@honk.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Martin Poulin wrote: > - X runs VERY slowly at times - especially running Netscape and XMame. > (I never realized Pac-Man could be soooo slow). Probably because it's swapping. I think the 16 MB of RAM is more of a problem here than the CPU. Sean -- Sean Harding sharding@oregon.uoregon.edu|"They burn their bridges as they http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~sharding/ | go." Consulting: http://www.efn.org/~seanh | --Natalie Merchant To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Aug 27 15:19:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13826 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:19:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zephyr.cybercom.net (zephyr.cybercom.net [209.21.146.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA13716 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:18:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ksmm@threespace.com) Received: from shell1.cybercom.net (ksmm@shell1.cybercom.net [209.21.136.6]) by zephyr.cybercom.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA28654 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:17:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ksmm@localhost) by shell1.cybercom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA25646 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:17:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell1.cybercom.net: ksmm owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:17:46 -0400 (EDT) From: The Classiest Man Alive X-Sender: ksmm@shell1.cybercom.net To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Back on topic... In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980827152357.009063e0@honk.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Netscape is an extreme case in FreeBSD. It uses more memory than anything I've seen, but there's nothing I know of that can replace it (i.e., I'm glad there *is* a Netscape for FreeBSD). 32 MB RAM minimum, 64 MB if possible. For a minimum system running X Windows, I think a fast 486 with a good video adapter would be sufficient. This is how I started running XFree86, and I don't ever recall wanting for more speed at the time. 16 MB RAM would do, but I'd recommend 32 MB. For a non-graphical environement, virtually any 486 is sufficient. Disk I/O might suffer at this point, but most console apps work fine. 16 MB should do the trick. Storage-wise, I can take up 1.75 GB or more with one of my "package happy" installations. When space or time dictate that I do otherwise, I can get by with around 500-600 MB for a good development system with X, or about half that without the comprehensive development tools (a user system). I did once install a working FreeBSD 2.2.x system onto a zip cartridge, but it only had tools enough to administer the system (not much fun to use). Plus the speed left something to be desired. :-) K.S. On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Martin Poulin wrote: : I know the Handbook says at least a 386DX with 8MB of RAM is : the recommended minimum, but let's be a little more realistic. : : What would you consider to be the minimum system to have a : decent installation of FreeBSD running? Also, what do you : think would be a good amount of disk space to set aside for : FreeBSD (I guess that depends on what you plan to install). : : For that matter, what do you consider a "decent installation"? : : I am currently running 2.2.7-release with full sources, X, and : a few ports (Netscape, XFMail, FVWM2, XMame, rxvt...) on a : 486DX4 100 with 16MB RAM and 540MB HD. : : I find that I am running into 2 problems: : : - X runs VERY slowly at times - especially running Netscape and XMame. : (I never realized Pac-Man could be soooo slow). : : - I have run out of disk space. (95% capacity in /usr if I delete : my Netscape cache - otherwise 106% capacity!!) : : So in my case, a 486 with 16 MB ram is way too slow, and I need tons : more disk space. If I wasn't running X, it would be a different story. : : The first time I installed FreeBSD, I installed 2.2.5-release on 250MB. : (The same 486 system dual-booting with win95) : No sources, no X, just a bare-bones install that worked quite nicely. : I even had room to install a few of my favorite apps (pine, lynx etc.) : : So in my opinion, you can definitely run FreeBSD quite well on a small : system, as long as you do a small install. : If you want a kick-ass install, you simply need a bigger system. : : Funny - the reason I got this little system to begin with was to use it : as a firewall for the bigger system that I planned to buy to run Windows. : Now I still want the bigger system, but not for Windows any more! : : m. : : : To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org : with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message : To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Aug 27 16:23:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA24613 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:23:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA24599 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:23:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA24516; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:22:26 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980828092222.27044@welearn.com.au> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:22:22 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Martin Poulin Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Back on topic... References: <3.0.3.32.19980827152357.009063e0@honk.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980827152357.009063e0@honk.org>; from Martin Poulin on Thu, Aug 27, 1998 at 03:23:57PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Aug 27, 1998 at 03:23:57PM -0400, Martin Poulin wrote: > I know the Handbook says at least a 386DX with 8MB of RAM is > the recommended minimum, but let's be a little more realistic. Sounds like mine, but it's SX, not DX, and it needs lots more swap. I ran X on it once as an experiement. It worked fine, but I kept falling asleep every time the mouse moved :-) > What would you consider to be the minimum system to have a > decent installation of FreeBSD running? Also, what do you > think would be a good amount of disk space to set aside for > FreeBSD (I guess that depends on what you plan to install). This system has 300 megs, but of course that's not enough. The pentium has a few gigs, but of course that's not enough. PicoBSD does its given tasks well though living on a single floppy. Disk space seems to follow the same rules as bedroom floor space. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Aug 27 16:54:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA29854 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:54:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA29828 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:53:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA02234; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:31:52 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19980827203152.28853@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:31:52 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Mark Dickey , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: my list References: <01bdd1d2$2d94b660$296f5ed1@immortal.bestweb.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <01bdd1d2$2d94b660$296f5ed1@immortal.bestweb.net>; from Mark Dickey on Thu, Aug 27, 1998 at 11:48:47AM -0400 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Aug 27, 1998 at 11:48:47AM -0400, Mark Dickey wrote: > Hmmm.....I don't know, never joined it. Does this have stuff on "These were > my experiences"? Can have, and certainly has done in the past. It's about 30 messages a day, absolute maximum. Of course, occasionally you get Jordan talking about his cats, but that's the price you pay :-) N -- Work: nik@iii.co.uk | FreeBSD + Perl + Apache Rest: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk | Remind me again why we need Play: nik@freebsd.org | Microsoft? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Aug 27 16:54:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00234 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:54:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA00106 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:54:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA00177; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:15:03 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19980827201503.15757@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:15:03 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: gek , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: my list References: <3.0.5.32.19980826223845.00798700@pop.netaddress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980826223845.00798700@pop.netaddress.com>; from gek on Wed, Aug 26, 1998 at 10:38:45PM -0700 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Aug 26, 1998 at 10:38:45PM -0700, gek wrote: > Eventually I would like to develop a FAQ, to answer some of the simple > questions, how to I delete a file, etc....Anyone interested in being the > FAQ maintainer? :) Why is "How do I delete a file?" a FreeBSD question? It's a Unix question, and there are a plethora of Unix resources out there that answer these sorts of questions (see Sue's weekly FAK, or ). I don't see why people have a problem posting questions to -questions. You don't need to have subscribed to -questions in order to do so (so the argument that you get lots of mail if you subscribe to -questions is moot) and the peer review helps keep the answers accurate. N -- Work: nik@iii.co.uk | FreeBSD + Perl + Apache Rest: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk | Remind me again why we need Play: nik@freebsd.org | Microsoft? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Aug 27 16:56:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00625 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:56:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA00509 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:56:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA01709; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:27:40 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19980827202739.48782@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:27:39 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Sue Blake , Greg Lehey Cc: gek , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: my list References: <3.0.5.32.19980826223845.00798700@pop.netaddress.com> <19980827180508.F14055@freebie.lemis.com> <19980827193150.57832@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19980827193150.57832@welearn.com.au>; from Sue Blake on Thu, Aug 27, 1998 at 07:31:51PM +1000 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Aug 27, 1998 at 07:31:51PM +1000, Sue Blake wrote: > The reasons given recently have included that freebsd-questions is too > much mail for most home-user newbies to cope with, most of which is > "noise" to us in that it's too hard to understand, can't be used and is > not relevant. Subscription to -questions is not necessary to post there (Sue, I know you know this, I'm just pointing it out for those that don't). Sure, it's preferred (well, I prefer it anyway) if people do, because I think there's a good chance to learn a lot by reading -questions, even if you don't realise it at the time. I know I did. > Also, there are people who want to have the chance to > give tips to others, even though they don't know much. freebsd-tips@example.com, mdoderated by someone, who posts 1 tip a day, including an indicator in the subject line as to the user level the tip is aimed at. I can host it (if I did, it would be freebsd-tips@ngo.org.uk), but I haven't got the time to moderate it or help promote it (write charters, web pages and the like). Do I hear any volunteers to do this? > And for whatever reason, there is still a perception that the purpose > of freebsd-questions is not to help newbies. I'd like to see that change. In a sense, it's not to help newbies. It's to help *anyone* who's got a FreeBSD problem, their status, newbie or otherwise, is irrelevant (and, as this list shows, you can have FreeBSD newbies who are expert in other Unices). > We haven't found ways to change any of these things from our end within > the existing system, nor have our needs and inhibitions been > acknowledged as real. Speaking for myself (as the rest of this post is) I can acknowledge your needs and inhibitions (that's a generic 'your' there). But I can't help you get other them. If people (to pick an example) think that some of the answers on -questions are too cryptic, then take the time to offer more detailed advice when you can. This frequently happens anyway -- a particular question might get a one line response; It's in passwd(5), RTFM and a slightly longer This is because '.' is a valid character in a username, so you can use ':' instead. You can't put ':' in usernames. The manual page for the password file explains this ("man 5 passwd") and a three page explanation from me :-) > But when newbies are the only ones without a convenient way to *give* > help, then I suppose that deprivation makes it relevant. I disagree with you a lot here. Newbies most emphatically *do* have a convenient way to give help. If it took you a long time to puzzle out something from the available documentation, take the time to contact whoever wrote the documentation with suggested changes, to try and make it easier for people in the future. This is a *fundamental* way newbies can help the FreeBSD project. You've done it yourself (my tutorial is definitely easier to use since I acted on your comments, I've had people mail me to say so). N -- Work: nik@iii.co.uk | FreeBSD + Perl + Apache Rest: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk | Remind me again why we need Play: nik@freebsd.org | Microsoft? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Aug 27 17:41:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA08864 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:41:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uhura.concentric.net (uhura.concentric.net [206.173.115.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA08817 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:40:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mlduke@concentric.net) Received: from cliff.concentric.net (cliff [206.173.115.90]) by uhura.concentric.net (8.8.8/(98/08/04 5.11)) id UAA04200; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:36:46 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from default (ts002d06.mer-id.concentric.net [206.173.184.42]) by cliff.concentric.net (8.8.8) id UAA15336; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:39:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35E5FD89.3E56@concentric.net> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:44:57 -0600 From: ML Duke Reply-To: mlduke@concentric.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nik Clayton CC: Mark Dickey , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: my list References: <01bdd1d2$2d94b660$296f5ed1@immortal.bestweb.net> <19980827203152.28853@nothing-going-on.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Nik Clayton wrote: If Jordan wants to talk about his cats--listen. Do you realize what this man has done? Without him, you would not _have_ FBSD. He was in this when exactly _two_ people kept on keepin on. Stand chastized. ML Duke > Of course, occasionally you get Jordan talking about his cats, but that's > the price you pay :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Aug 27 22:36:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA25961 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:36:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost.my.domain (ppp1592.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.249.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA25938 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:36:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from tim@localhost) by localhost.my.domain (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA25643; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 01:35:23 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from tim) Message-ID: <19980828013522.C25527@zappo> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 01:35:22 -0400 From: Tim Vanderhoek To: mlduke@concentric.net, Nik Clayton Cc: Mark Dickey , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: my list References: <01bdd1d2$2d94b660$296f5ed1@immortal.bestweb.net> <19980827203152.28853@nothing-going-on.org> <35E5FD89.3E56@concentric.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <35E5FD89.3E56@concentric.net>; from ML Duke on Thu, Aug 27, 1998 at 06:44:57PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Aug 27, 1998 at 06:44:57PM -0600, ML Duke wrote: > Nik Clayton wrote: > > If Jordan wants to talk about his cats--listen. Do you realize what > this man has done? Without him, you would not _have_ FBSD. > > He was in this when exactly _two_ people kept on keepin on. FreeBSD's history is much (much) more complicated than that, and I suspect your comment would offend many of the other people who also played crucial parts in FreeBSD's birth. The one person that imho you might have a chance of saying that about disappeared years ago. Without William Jolitz, it is certainly technically true to say "we would not have FreeBSD". -- This .sig is not innovative, witty, or profund. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Aug 27 23:03:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA28713 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 23:03:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dsinw.com (dsinw.com [207.149.40.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA28686 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 23:03:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hamellr@dsinw.com) Received: (from hamellr@localhost) by dsinw.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id XAA17256; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 23:01:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 23:01:01 -0700 (PDT) From: rick hamell To: Tim Vanderhoek cc: mlduke@concentric.net, Nik Clayton , Mark Dickey , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: my list In-Reply-To: <19980828013522.C25527@zappo> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > The one person that imho you might have a chance of saying that about > disappeared years ago. Without William Jolitz, it is certainly > technically true to say "we would not have FreeBSD". You could also say the same for Rod Grimes, as he convinved Jordan to pickup the FreeBSD project. The point really is, that FreeBSD is a project of many people... there are a few key players who gave the project a shove here and there, but no one person is 'totally' responsable for it. Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Aug 27 23:30:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA02463 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 23:30:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alinga.newcastle.edu.au (alinga.newcastle.edu.au [134.148.160.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA02458 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 23:30:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from youdaman@reincarnate.com) Received: from reincarnate.com (c9707010@peach1.newcastle.edu.au [134.148.140.219]) by alinga.newcastle.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA03568; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 16:27:40 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <35E64DFB.42B723FA@reincarnate.com> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 16:28:12 +1000 From: Stewart Heckenberg Reply-To: c9707010@alinga.newcastle.edu.au X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rick hamell CC: Tim Vanderhoek , mlduke@concentric.net, Nik Clayton , Mark Dickey , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: my list References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > The one person that imho you might have a chance of saying that about > > disappeared years ago. Without William Jolitz, it is certainly > > technically true to say "we would not have FreeBSD". > > You could also say the same for Rod Grimes, as he convinved > Jordan to pickup the FreeBSD project. The point really is, that FreeBSD > is a project of many people... there are a few key players who gave the > project a shove here and there, but no one person is 'totally' > responsable for it. > Hey, don't forget Charles Babbage ;) Stewart To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Aug 28 07:35:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA24253 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 07:35:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA24245 for ; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 07:35:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Received: from localhost (chrisc@localhost) by vnode.vmunix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA29997; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:34:23 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:34:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Coleman X-Sender: chrisc@vnode To: Martin Poulin cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Back on topic... In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980827152357.009063e0@honk.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org If you are done installing stuff from the ports collection, deleting that will free up nice sized piece of HD space. You can always re-install it with a more up to date version. If you don't want to delete it, you can do a 'make clean' in it to free up the disk space. You might try it in /usr/src if you have done a 'make world' lately. -Chris On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Martin Poulin wrote: > I know the Handbook says at least a 386DX with 8MB of RAM is > the recommended minimum, but let's be a little more realistic. > > What would you consider to be the minimum system to have a > decent installation of FreeBSD running? Also, what do you > think would be a good amount of disk space to set aside for > FreeBSD (I guess that depends on what you plan to install). > > For that matter, what do you consider a "decent installation"? > > I am currently running 2.2.7-release with full sources, X, and > a few ports (Netscape, XFMail, FVWM2, XMame, rxvt...) on a > 486DX4 100 with 16MB RAM and 540MB HD. > > I find that I am running into 2 problems: > > - X runs VERY slowly at times - especially running Netscape and XMame. > (I never realized Pac-Man could be soooo slow). > > - I have run out of disk space. (95% capacity in /usr if I delete > my Netscape cache - otherwise 106% capacity!!) > > So in my case, a 486 with 16 MB ram is way too slow, and I need tons > more disk space. If I wasn't running X, it would be a different story. > > The first time I installed FreeBSD, I installed 2.2.5-release on 250MB. > (The same 486 system dual-booting with win95) > No sources, no X, just a bare-bones install that worked quite nicely. > I even had room to install a few of my favorite apps (pine, lynx etc.) > > So in my opinion, you can definitely run FreeBSD quite well on a small > system, as long as you do a small install. > If you want a kick-ass install, you simply need a bigger system. > > Funny - the reason I got this little system to begin with was to use it > as a firewall for the bigger system that I planned to buy to run Windows. > Now I still want the bigger system, but not for Windows any more! > > m. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Aug 28 08:08:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA28120 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:08:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from armstrong-bh.armstrong.com (armstrong-bh.armstrong.com [198.76.107.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA28045 for ; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:08:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Edmund_L_Mulligan@armstrong.com) From: Edmund_L_Mulligan@armstrong.com Received: (from uucp@localhost) by armstrong-bh.armstrong.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) id LAA24407 for ; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:07:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailex01.armstrong.com(172.16.23.51) by armstrong-bh.armstrong.com via smap (4.1) id xmad24281; Fri, 28 Aug 98 11:06:28 -0400 Received: by mailex01.Armstrong.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) id 8525666E.00536E80 ; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:11:17 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ARMSTRONG To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <8625666E.004D0F53.00@mailex01.Armstrong.com> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:46:26 -0500 Subject: Re: my list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Because some things are different between Unix variants, some things are the same. Picking up FreeBSD from scratch, newbies don't know which things are common and which are not. Of course they're going to ask here (Free BSD lists) first. As I said, there are a bunch of newbies that are also looking for the basic Unix help. To make any gains in the user base, this has got to be easier to get into at the bottom, not as a Unix user switching flavors. Ed Just MHO, not Armstrong. From: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk on 08/27/98 08:15 PM CET To: gekk0@usa.net, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG cc: (bcc: Edmund L Mulligan/Stillwater/FPO/Armstrong) Subject: Re: my list Why is "How do I delete a file?" a FreeBSD question? It's a Unix question, and there are a plethora of Unix resources out there that answer these sorts of questions (see Sue's weekly FAK, or ). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Aug 28 10:02:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA16717 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:02:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from papaya.mail.easynet.net (papaya.mail.easynet.net [195.40.1.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA16664 for ; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:02:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andrew@boothman.easynet.co.uk) Received: (qmail 17949 invoked from network); 28 Aug 1998 17:01:28 -0000 Received: from boothman.easynet.co.uk (194.154.100.117) by papaya.mail.easynet.net with SMTP; 28 Aug 1998 17:01:28 -0000 Received: by Boothman.easynet.co.uk (VPOP3 - Unregistered) with SMTP; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 17:38:45 +0100 Message-ID: <35E6DD15.9844C4E9@boothman.easynet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 17:38:45 +0100 From: Andrew Boothman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gek CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: my list References: <3.0.5.32.19980826223845.00798700@pop.netaddress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Server: VPOP3 V1.2.0d Unregistered Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org gek wrote: > > The list is set up for people new to FreeBSD to discuss and ask questions > regarding FreeBSD. The list is target towards "newbies", so just remember > that a answer to the question you ask may not be able to be answered by > list memebers. I'm sorry, I may be wrong, but I can't see your list working in the "Asking Questions" sense. Who will answer the questions that people post? Answer. Other newbies. People who probably don't yet have the knowledge to be giving advice to others. The advantage of -questions is that there is such a large number of knowledgeable people on there, that any mistakes people make with answering questions is usually picked up and corrected by someone else. >From my experience -questions folks will answer any question no matter how large, small or trivial. So I'm afraid I just can't see the advantage of a list for just 'newbie' questions. -- Andrew Boothman http://www.boothman.easynet.co.uk/andrew/ PGP Key available from public servers ICQ ID:17526634 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Aug 28 10:02:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA16720 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:02:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from papaya.mail.easynet.net (papaya.mail.easynet.net [195.40.1.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA16672 for ; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:02:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andrew@boothman.easynet.co.uk) Received: (qmail 17938 invoked from network); 28 Aug 1998 17:01:26 -0000 Received: from boothman.easynet.co.uk (194.154.100.117) by papaya.mail.easynet.net with SMTP; 28 Aug 1998 17:01:26 -0000 Received: by Boothman.easynet.co.uk (VPOP3 - Unregistered) with SMTP; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 17:31:09 +0100 Message-ID: <35E6DB4D.5C9A552F@boothman.easynet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 17:31:09 +0100 From: Andrew Boothman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Poulin CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Back on topic... References: <3.0.3.32.19980827152357.009063e0@honk.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Server: VPOP3 V1.2.0d Unregistered Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Martin Poulin wrote: > So in my case, a 486 with 16 MB ram is way too slow, and I need tons > more disk space. If I wasn't running X, it would be a different story I hope so... I'm going to setup an intranet server for my school. It's going to house all sorts of pupil and teacher written information probably running of Apache. Also, It'll be running mini/mySQL with a perl CGI script accessing it to provide a database of useful web sites (a la Yahoo). Being a poor school, I'll get a 486DX2 with maybe 8MB RAM to work with. The machine certainly doesn't need X, so I hope this hardware will be enough! -- Andrew Boothman http://www.boothman.easynet.co.uk/andrew/ PGP Key available from public servers ICQ ID:17526634 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Aug 28 10:30:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA20682 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:30:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.halcyon.com (mail1.halcyon.com [206.63.63.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA20675 for ; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:30:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from napalm@mail1.halcyon.com) Received: from evt-lx101-ip43.nwnexus.net (evt-lx101-ip43.nwnexus.net [204.57.235.93]) by mail1.halcyon.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA19547; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808281724.KAA19547@mail1.halcyon.com> From: "Mark Cockrum" To: mlduke@concentric.net, Marty Poulin , Nik Clayton Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:25:02 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: main platform? CC: kevink@mindless.com, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <19980823140326.29924@nothing-going-on.org> References: <35DEFE23.7EBA@concentric.net>; from ML Duke on Sat, Aug 22, 1998 at 11:21:39AM -0600 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v3.01b) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id KAA20676 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Sat, Aug 22, 1998 at 11:21:39AM -0600, ML Duke wrote: > > I'd _love_ to trash $ms for > > good but one little problem prevents: I've got to send WordPerfect > > compatible documents > > > I understand that WordPerfect for Linux works with no problems under > FreeBSD's Linux compatibility. Do you know where I can download/buy a copy of this over the internet? -MC ___ <@,@> Mark A. Cockrum Have you crashed Windows95 today? ì`-'U Inferno Prod., LTD. -"-"- napalm@halcyon.com / n9842643@cc.wwu.edu - --- ---- --------- --------------------------------------------- Visit our 'zine: No Comment Needed - http://ncn.cjb.net ------------------------------------------- --------- ---- --- -- Secured Email Prefered. For PGP Key: http://keyserv.integris-ds.com/cgi-bin/pgp-key-get.sh?AE4F18D5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Aug 28 11:53:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA01185 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:53:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gate.ljis.ml.org (cyberworld.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA01161 for ; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:52:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ljohns@cyberworld.demon.co.uk) Received: (from ljohns@localhost) by gate.ljis.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA00676; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 19:43:39 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from ljohns) Message-ID: <19980828194339.B552@ljis.ml.org> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 19:43:39 +0100 From: Lee Johnston To: andrew@boothman.easynet.co.uk Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Back on topic... References: <3.0.3.32.19980827152357.009063e0@honk.org> <35E6DB4D.5C9A552F@boothman.easynet.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <35E6DB4D.5C9A552F@boothman.easynet.co.uk>; from Andrew Boothman on Fri, Aug 28, 1998 at 05:31:09PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I recently did a similar system, using a 486DX2-50 with 8Mb RAM and a 500Mb HDD. It holds an internal web-site (Apache) with a Web-Based E-Mail system for pupils and teachers (1600 addresses, the disk space is going quick) this is a modified AtDot system using CUCIPOP to server the messages. I've also allowed school staff to upload web-pages for teaching, ie. A page with links on to different sites for a certain school project. The FreeBSD machine also handles internet access for 30 PCs and Macs thorugh a ISDN line using PPP, I would use ML-PPP if Demon supported it. Just shows what can be done with a good OS. Regards, Lee. > I'm going to setup an intranet server for my school. It's going to house > all sorts of pupil and teacher written information probably running of > Apache. > > Also, It'll be running mini/mySQL with a perl CGI script accessing it to > provide a database of useful web sites (a la Yahoo). > > Being a poor school, I'll get a 486DX2 with maybe 8MB RAM to work with. > > The machine certainly doesn't need X, so I hope this hardware will be > enough! > > -- > Andrew Boothman > http://www.boothman.easynet.co.uk/andrew/ > PGP Key available from public servers > ICQ ID:17526634 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message -- +-------------------------------------------------------+ | Lee Johnston | | E-Mail: lee@uk.freebsd.org Tel: +44 (0)1207 542 592 | +-------------------------------------------------------+ | FreeBSD UKUG: http://ukug.uk.freebsd.org/ | +-------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Aug 28 13:54:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA19818 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 13:54:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spectre.honk.org (honk.org [206.191.48.225]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA19813 for ; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 13:54:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mpoulin@honk.org) Received: from sw47 ([207.219.2.33]) by spectre.honk.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA05263; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:44:53 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980828165320.0090a100@honk.org> X-Sender: mpoulin@honk.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 16:53:20 -0400 To: "Mark Cockrum" From: Martin Poulin Subject: Re: main platform? Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199808281724.KAA19547@mail1.halcyon.com> References: <19980823140326.29924@nothing-going-on.org> <35DEFE23.7EBA@concentric.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:25 AM 8/28/98 +0000, Mark Cockrum wrote: >> I understand that WordPerfect for Linux works with no problems under >> FreeBSD's Linux compatibility. > >Do you know where I can download/buy a copy of this over the internet? > >-MC Check out this site - apparently there is a free 15-day trial. http://www.corel.com/news/1998/may/linux.htm M. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Aug 28 14:06:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA21407 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:06:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spectre.honk.org (honk.org [206.191.48.225]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA21322 for ; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:06:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mpoulin@honk.org) Received: from sw47 ([207.219.2.33]) by spectre.honk.org (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA05273; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:56:05 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980828170430.008fde00@honk.org> X-Sender: mpoulin@honk.org (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 17:04:30 -0400 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Martin Poulin Subject: Re: main platform? Cc: "Mark Cockrum" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >>> I understand that WordPerfect for Linux works with no problems under >>> FreeBSD's Linux compatibility. >> >>Do you know where I can download/buy a copy of this over the internet? >> >>-MC > >Check out this site - apparently there is a free 15-day trial. > >http://www.corel.com/news/1998/may/linux.htm > >M. Also, if you are interested in purchasing it, there is a FAQ at: http://www.sdcorp.com/wplinux/wplinfaq.html see #4. M. (PS. According to the Corel site it's only about $85 US! I may consider buying it for myself - I was under the impression that it was a lot more expensive). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Aug 28 14:18:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA23863 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:18:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from info1.info.tampere.fi (info1.info.tampere.fi [212.63.6.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA23827 for ; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:18:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lmkjuksi@info1.info.tampere.fi) Received: from info1.info.tampere.fi (pc100.soitto.info.tampere.fi [212.63.8.100]) by info1.info.tampere.fi (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id AAA26431; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 00:17:08 +0300 (EET DST) Message-ID: <35E71F55.9FE14D7C@info1.info.tampere.fi> Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 00:21:26 +0300 From: "Jukka Similä" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Boothman CC: Martin Poulin , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Back on topic... References: <3.0.3.32.19980827152357.009063e0@honk.org> <35E6DB4D.5C9A552F@boothman.easynet.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Andrew Boothman wrote: > > Being a poor school, I'll get a 486DX2 with maybe 8MB RAM to work with. > > The machine certainly doesn't need X, so I hope this hardware will be > enough! > My opinion: It will certainly be enough, if you don't care about small lag sometimes. I had 486dx2 66Mhz with 8 MB and I got X running - worked much better than Win95 with the same machine , and I even made some 3D desing and rendering. - but I didn't have anykind of network installed. Now I got 486Dx2 80Mhz 24MB and it runs X just fine. (however I'm planning to buy some new hardware - maybe 166mhz pentium and a scsi harddisk - I am running out of disk space and I can't play mp3's because of a lazy CPU) Jukka Simila To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Aug 28 19:31:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA00438 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 19:31:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA00423 for ; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 19:31:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA00645 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 12:30:11 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 12:30:11 +1000 (EST) From: Sue Blake Message-Id: <199808290230.MAA00645@phoenix.welearn.com.au> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD Newbies First Aid Kit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FreeBSD-Newbies First Aid Kit (Last updated 21 August 1998) (This is a regular posting to the FreeBSD-Newbies mailing list. It is also available at http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/) FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.ORG is the place to send all questions about installing, configuring, running and using FreeBSD. All help requests are handled by FreeBSD-Questions, including newbies questions. FreeBSD-Newbies is different. We don't ask for help or answer how-to questions. It is a discussion forum for newbies. FreeBSD-Newbies provides a place for new FreeBSD users to meet and covers any of the activities of newbies that are not already dealt with elsewhere. Examples include helping each other to learn more on our own, finding and using resources, problem solving techniques, how to seek help elsewhere, how to use mailing lists and which lists to use, general chat, making mistakes, boasting, sharing ideas, stories, moral (but not technical) support, and taking an active part in the FreeBSD community. We take our problems and support questions to freebsd-questions, and use freebsd-newbies to meet others who are doing the same things that we do as newbies. One of the things we do together is learn more effective ways to find help when we need it. Here are some suggestions: When something doesn't work the way you expect 1. First look at the errata for your release of FreeBSD at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for the latest information and security advisories. 2. Search the Handbook, FAQ, and mail archives at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/search.html 3. If you still have a question or problem, collect the output of `uname -a' and of any relevant program(s) and email your question to FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. Mailing lists When you have a problem that you can't solve by yourself, there's only one support mailing list and that's FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. FreeBSD-questions helps with installation and basic setup as well as more general and advanced questions. You don't have to actually join freebsd-questions before asking a question there. Replies to your question will normally be sent to you personally as well as to the list. Just make sure you have read and followed the guidelines for posting, because you might find them different to what you're used to. If you do subscribe to freebsd-questions you'll have the advantage of seeing all of the recent questions and their answers. Before you post to FreeBSD-questions, please read the guidelines at http://www.lemis.com/questions.html Many of the people who answer FreeBSD-questions are very knowledgeable, but they get frustrated when they get questions which are difficult to understand. http://www.lemis.com/email.html is worth reading too. If you're not sure that you can follow these guidelines, come back and ask the other newbies for help on how to post an effective question to the support mailing list. Maybe your question has been asked before. If you search the mailing list archives at http://www.freebsd.org/search.html first you might get the answer right away. It's always worth trying. Other mailing lists (http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/eresources:charters.html) cover specialised areas and many are more developer-oriented. You'll need to read their charters carefully before participating, but it's probably a good idea to ask on either -newbies or -questions for advice about where to post a more specialised question. FreeBSD-announce is a very low volume read-only list for occasional announcements, such as notice of new releases, and the Really Quick Newsletter. It's worth subscribing to FreeBSD-announce too. Manuals You'll always be expected show that you have made some effort to use the available documentation before asking for help. That's not always as easy as it sounds! If you know what documentation you need but can't locate it, send a brief query to FreeBSD-questions. If you don't know what you need, always have trouble finding it, or can't make any sense of it when you do, ask some patient newbies to steer you in the right direction. Anyone interested in writing or reviewing documentation for FreeBSD is encouraged to join the FreeBSD Documentation Project. Details are at http://www.freebsd.org/docproj.html Other resources A resource list is available at http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html to help new and inexperienced FreeBSD users to find relevant information quickly. It includes books, on line documents and tutorials, and links to web pages that other newbies have found useful for learning. If you have a suggestion for good material to be included, please write to freebsd-newbies and tell us about it. But I have seen people asking questions here! It is quite common for people to send the wrong kind of post to a mailing list. Because we're newbies it'll certainly happen here from time to time. The best thing to do if you see a message that doesn't belong on a list is to ignore it. There's always someone around whose job it is to sort these problems out privately. The posts to the lists go straight through, whatever their content. It is going to be confusing for a little while because we're all newbies so we all make mistakes. That's OK. One thing we're going to see a fair bit is people posting questions, believing they're doing the right thing by posting here as newbies, not realising how it works. If someone answers those questions the situation will snowball. There's nothing wrong with helping someone to redirect their question to freebsd-questions, but please do so gently. There's nothing wrong with the occasional mistake either. So all questions, requests for help, etc still go to freebsd-questions as usual. Ours is more of a discussion group, a place where newbies can relax with other newbies and focus more on our successes than on our temporary imperfection. We can talk about things here that are not allowed on freebsd-questions. We're also a bit freer to make the mistakes that we need to make in order to learn. _________________________________________________________________ To Subscribe to FreeBSD-Newbies: Send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "subscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message. Mail sent to freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org appears on the mailing list. _________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Aug 29 03:20:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA09644 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 03:20:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from camel14.mindspring.com (camel14.mindspring.com [207.69.200.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA09634 for ; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 03:20:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lbrockman@mindspring.com) Received: from default (user-37kb955.dialup.mindspring.com [207.69.164.165]) by camel14.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA21555 for ; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 06:19:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000101bdd336$5eae0700$a5a445cf@default> From: "Larry Brockman" To: Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 06:18:25 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org HELP To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Aug 29 04:15:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA17533 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 04:15:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bajor.ici.net (bajor.ici.net [207.180.0.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA17528 for ; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 04:15:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from agudelo@ici.net) Received: from default (d-nh-derry-27.ici.net [207.180.22.36]) by bajor.ici.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA11163 for ; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 07:07:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Carlos Agudelo" To: Subject: Video Card for X Windows Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 07:14:36 -0400 Message-ID: <01bdd33e$35239780$2416b4cf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, I am unable to setup X windows (using XF86Setup) under FreeBSD 2.2.6 on my system(Cyrix 133, 32MB, 3.2 G with two partitions FreeBSD/Win 95). I believe that is because I have a video card that is not supported by FreeBSD (STB 95 - made specifically for Windows 95) . I am planning on buying a video card for my system, but I need one that is supported by both Win 95 and FreeBSD 2.2.6. Are there any suggestions on which video card I should purchase? Carlos To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Aug 29 04:50:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA20146 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 04:50:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from staff.cs.usyd.edu.au (staff.cs.usyd.edu.au [129.78.8.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA20131 for ; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 04:50:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mhenry@white.ug.cs.usyd.edu.au) Message-Id: <199808291150.EAA20131@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Video Card for X Windows To: agudelo@ici.net (Carlos Agudelo) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 21:49:03 +1000 (EST) From: "Michael Henry" Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <01bdd33e$35239780$2416b4cf@default> from "Carlos Agudelo" at Aug 29, 98 07:14:36 am Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Incompatibility with the video card is not the fault of the operating system, it is the fault of the window system. (In this case, XFree86). The answer to your question can be found at: http://www.xfree86.org/FAQ/index.html#OtherOptions A list of chipsets supported by XFree86 can be found at: http://www.xfree86.org/3.3.2/README3.html I recently purchased a video card for my computer, and I chose the S3 ViRGE because it was one card I knew XFree86 supported. I hope this has helped, Michael > Hello, > I am unable to setup X windows (using XF86Setup) under > FreeBSD 2.2.6 on my system(Cyrix 133, 32MB, 3.2 G with two > partitions FreeBSD/Win 95). I believe that is because I have > a video card that is not supported by FreeBSD (STB 95 - made > specifically for Windows 95) . I am planning on buying a > video card for my system, but I need one that is supported > by both Win 95 and FreeBSD 2.2.6. Are there any suggestions > on which video card I should purchase? > > Carlos > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Aug 29 05:18:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA21690 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 05:18:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peanut.readington.com (peanut.readington.com [207.207.198.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA21677 for ; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 05:18:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chrismar@peanut.readington.com) Received: from localhost (chrismar@localhost) by peanut.readington.com (8.9.1/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA26571; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 07:21:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from chrismar@peanut.readington.com) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 07:21:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Martino To: Carlos Agudelo cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Video Card for X Windows In-Reply-To: <01bdd33e$35239780$2416b4cf@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have a 4mb s3 ViRGE video card that works quite well under both FreeBSD and Win95. They are priced very resonably too. Chris -- Chris Martino chrismar@readington.com On Sat, 29 Aug 1998, Carlos Agudelo wrote: > Hello, > I am unable to setup X windows (using XF86Setup) under > FreeBSD 2.2.6 on my system(Cyrix 133, 32MB, 3.2 G with two > partitions FreeBSD/Win 95). I believe that is because I have > a video card that is not supported by FreeBSD (STB 95 - made > specifically for Windows 95) . I am planning on buying a > video card for my system, but I need one that is supported > by both Win 95 and FreeBSD 2.2.6. Are there any suggestions > on which video card I should purchase? > > Carlos > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Aug 29 11:54:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA24493 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 11:54:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gate.ljis.ml.org (cyberworld.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA24488 for ; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 11:54:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ljohns@cyberworld.demon.co.uk) Received: (from ljohns@localhost) by gate.ljis.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA00721; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 19:52:53 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from ljohns) Message-ID: <19980829195253.B277@ljis.ml.org> Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 19:52:53 +0100 From: Lee Johnston To: Larry Brockman , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: your mail References: <000101bdd336$5eae0700$a5a445cf@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <000101bdd336$5eae0700$a5a445cf@default>; from Larry Brockman on Sat, Aug 29, 1998 at 06:18:25AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Please be sensable and include a discription of your problem. Lee. On Sat, Aug 29, 1998 at 06:18:25AM -0400, Larry Brockman wrote: > HELP > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message -- +-------------------------------------------------------+ | Lee Johnston | | E-Mail: lee@uk.freebsd.org Tel: +44 (0)1207 542 592 | +-------------------------------------------------------+ | FreeBSD UKUG: http://ukug.uk.freebsd.org/ | +-------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Aug 29 13:27:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA03539 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 13:27:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt053nb4.san.rr.com (dt053nb4.san.rr.com [204.210.34.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA03534; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 13:27:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt053nb4.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07741; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 13:26:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <35E863D8.86ACA284@dal.net> Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 13:26:00 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE-0827 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: flygt@sr.se CC: FreeBSD Questions , FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: running /etc/weekly References: <19980829095417.A6275@sr.se> <19980829101323.A6328@sr.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org CC'ing this to -newbies because it may be of interest there as well. Please trim followups. :) Gunnar Flygt wrote: > How come one has to send a question to questions@freebsd.org to be able > to answer it by oneself? ;-) I realize that you are being humorous here, but there actually are good reasons for this. In no particular order, there are two main reasons. 1) You are switching from primary focus on the objective (solving the problem) to a different primary focus (describing the problem) which gives your tired conscious brain a break and gives your relatively refreshed sub-conscious a chance to work on it. 2) The act of describing the problem to an imaginary objective third party can help you organize your thoughts along different lines, thereby prompting your brain to see a solution it might otherwise have missed. I often compose a "help me" message about a problem, then file it away to send later if further tinkering doesn't actually solve it. In other words, don't feel bad, we've all been there. :) Good luck, Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** When you don't know where you're going, every road will take you there. - Yiddish Proverb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Aug 29 20:37:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA05314 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 20:37:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alinga.newcastle.edu.au (alinga.newcastle.edu.au [134.148.160.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA05292 for ; Sat, 29 Aug 1998 20:37:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from youdaman@reincarnate.com) Received: from reincarnate.com (c9707010@peach1.newcastle.edu.au [134.148.140.219]) by alinga.newcastle.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA11397 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 13:36:17 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <35E8C8D0.28F19815@reincarnate.com> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 13:36:49 +1000 From: Stewart Heckenberg Reply-To: c9707010@alinga.newcastle.edu.au X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: mounting win95 partition Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi all, I have managed to mount my win95 partition by adding the appropriate line to /etc/fstab, but I was wondering as to the importance of the last two digits on the line... I just use 0 and 0 - is that ok? Cheers, Stewart To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message