From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Dec 13 21:17:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA27471 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 21:17:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Mailer.lynxus.com ([208.245.219.211]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA27423; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 21:17:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from info@nfline.com) From: info@nfline.com Message-Id: <199812140517.VAA27423@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: NFL Football Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 17:41:40 To: undisclosed-recipients:; Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org NFL fans! - You have expressed an interest in NFL football. Here is a site you must visit! NFLine.com is a 20 year record book at your fingertips for the non-bettor. For the bettor our Law of Averages betting guide advises you on who to take. It also proves it works for the last 20 YEARS. Did Miami beat the spread every game they played when they went undefeated for one entire season?? Our database gives you the point spreads, the final score and the location of every game played for the last 20 years. Our short and to the point book section gives you, the user, the culmination of 20 years of work, research and experience on how to beat the bookie. WE ARE NOT A RIPOFF TIPSTER!!! ARE YOU TIRED OF PAYING THE BOOKIE????? Right now the odds from Vegas to win the next Super Bowl are posted on our website---FREE. We are here to help you. Take advantage of our service and experience. The Vegas point spreads are added to our website at 4:00 PM PST on Sunday afternoon for the next Sunday's games. LADIES--This is an excellent CHRISTMAS or BIRTHDAY gift for HIM, or just a great way to say "I love you". Click here for our website www.nfline.com If you don't want further correspondance E-Mail us at Advisor@nfline.com THANKS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Dec 13 23:09:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA14204 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 23:09:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sdcc10.ucsd.edu (sdcc10.ucsd.edu [132.239.50.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA14198 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 23:09:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from crouilla@ucsd.edu) Received: from localhost (crouilla@localhost) by sdcc10.ucsd.edu (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id XAA20620 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 23:09:08 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: sdcc10.ucsd.edu: crouilla owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 23:09:08 -0800 (PST) From: Chuck Rouillard Reply-To: chuck@ucsd.edu To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: spam dolts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Message 2/2 info@nfline.com Dec 13, 98 > 05:41:40 pm > > Return-Path: > Subject: NFL Football > Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 17:41:40 > To: undisclosed-recipients:; > Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > X-Status: > > Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 17:41:40 > From: info@nfline.com > To: undisclosed-recipients: ; > Subject: NFL Football > > NFL fans! - > > You have expressed an interest in NFL football. Here is a site > you must visit! [chop] Gee, how nice. I finally have a reason to set up a procmail bouncer. -c To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Dec 14 09:28:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA14461 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:28:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from servicios.ubp.edu.ar (200.32.95.231.impsat.net.ar [200.32.95.231] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA14414 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:28:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from meschoyez@ubp.edu.ar) Received: from ubp.edu.ar ([200.32.95.232]) by servicios.ubp.edu.ar (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id 311 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:38:39 -0300 Message-ID: <36754B96.5434001D@ubp.edu.ar> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:32:06 -0300 From: "Maximiliano A. Eschoyez" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Progress in FreeBSD learning Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, Probably some people could remember me. I unsubscribed from the list due to problems of time, but I'll back in january. Those days I'm making lot of things with my Un*x. I have rebuilt the kernel three times. The first kernel allow me to use my ProAudio Spectrum, and its really sounds good. The second one was a reduced kernel, just the necessary drivers and options. And, the last one (running near a week) have the SystemV compatibility - I wanna play DOOM! :-) About XWindows. it's running whitout problems. I love to change from 800x600 to 640x480 only pressing Ctrl+Alt+(+NumPad), and of course Ctrl+Alt+F# to change to my virtual terminals (text, yes!!!). The other day I've installad the FVWM2 desktop, but I still using TWM. Wine runs good with short programs. Why shorts, my system is a 486DXII with only 8MB RAM (It's four years old but still working like the first day). XFmail is configured and is waiting for the connection, but first I need a Modem and the most important, the telephone line. Now in Argentina the prices felt and it cost around $150.- (dollars). I don't have one because I'm living alone just for studies. My family lives in Rosario and I live in Cordoba (400 kilometers - 4 hours by car). Nspmod eats around 30% of my resources but is better than the s3mod. Mod Files are cool, but some trackers have an inspired mind and his music is great. Well, I have to study, but for University, it's exam time. I'm changing my friends' mind and I'm seeing some interest. One of my friends is waiting for vacation to install FreeBSD - another Newbie :-) -, other installed Linux but he has problems configuring LILO. At Work we use Netware by Novell and the terminals run Win95, if you want to make money you have to do what the most users do. My boss rent a space of HD on a server at Virtualis Systems to put some Web pages and as an Relay host for mails. The first time I telneted the server I was very surprised, it's running FreeBSD and Apache!!! After the tears (I was really happy ;-) ) I felt at home. Well, this is a short part of the last month in Un*x environments. I'll keep in contact, but remember that I'm not subscribed yet. See you soon Maximiliano Eschoyez meschoyez@ubp.edu.ar FreeBSD - The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Dec 14 10:09:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA20076 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:09:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason01.u.washington.edu (jason01.u.washington.edu [140.142.70.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA20068 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:09:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from durang@u.washington.edu) Received: from goodall2.u.washington.edu (durang@goodall2.u.washington.edu [140.142.12.168]) by jason01.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id KAA17950; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:09:38 -0800 Received: from localhost (durang@localhost) by goodall2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id KAA86526; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:09:38 -0800 Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:09:38 -0800 (PST) From: "K. Marsh" To: "Maximiliano A. Eschoyez" cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Progress in FreeBSD learning In-Reply-To: <36754B96.5434001D@ubp.edu.ar> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Maximiliano A. Eschoyez wrote: > The other day I've installad the FVWM2 desktop, but I still using TWM. Hi Max. Have you tried ctwm? It is very similar to twm, but it has some additional features that make it very nice and useful. You should be able to switch from twm to ctwm very easily. > XFmail is configured and is waiting for the connection, but first I need > a Modem and the most important, the telephone line. Now in Argentina the > prices felt and it cost around $150.- (dollars). $150 US?? Is that a one-time installation fee? What does it cost per month or per call? > Nspmod eats around 30% of my resources but is better than the s3mod. Mod > Files are cool, but some trackers have an inspired mind and his music is > great. Have you tried MP3? They sound great, almost like a regular music CD! I'll bet MP3 would eat more than 30% of your resources, though. > Well, I have to study, but for University, it's exam time. Same here. Good luck. Kenneth J. Marsh University of Washington durang@u.washington.edu Chemical Engineering To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Dec 14 10:26:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA22083 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:26:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from servicios.ubp.edu.ar (200.32.95.231.impsat.net.ar [200.32.95.231] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA22011 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:26:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from meschoyez@ubp.edu.ar) Received: from ubp.edu.ar ([200.32.95.232]) by servicios.ubp.edu.ar (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id 312; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:35:55 -0300 Message-ID: <36755903.47870A7C@ubp.edu.ar> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:29:23 -0300 From: "Maximiliano A. Eschoyez" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "K. Marsh" CC: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Progress in FreeBSD learning References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org K. Marsh wrote: > > On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Maximiliano A. Eschoyez wrote: > > > The other day I've installad the FVWM2 desktop, but I still using TWM. > > Hi Max. Have you tried ctwm? It is very similar to twm, but it has some > additional features that make it very nice and useful. You should be able > to switch from twm to ctwm very easily. I'm gonna try it soon, thanxs! > > XFmail is configured and is waiting for the connection, but first I need > > a Modem and the most important, the telephone line. Now in Argentina the > > prices felt and it cost around $150.- (dollars). > > $150 US?? Is that a one-time installation fee? What does it cost per > month or per call? Yes. $150 US just for installation and $35 US per month plus calls (near two dollars for an hour in local calls and in night hours it's a dollar). So, installation fees felt but not month fees. > > Nspmod eats around 30% of my resources but is better than the s3mod. Mod > > Files are cool, but some trackers have an inspired mind and his music is > > great. > > Have you tried MP3? They sound great, almost like a regular music CD! > I'll bet MP3 would eat more than 30% of your resources, though. No, but I'm going to. I love Mod Files because they follow the KISS+S rule - Keep it short and simple, stupid ;-) > > > Well, I have to study, but for University, it's exam time. > > Same here. Good luck. > > Kenneth J. Marsh University of Washington > durang@u.washington.edu Chemical Engineering See ya. Maxi meschoyez@ubp.edu.ar FreeBSD - The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Dec 14 15:40:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01368 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:40:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from amber.ccs.neu.edu (amber.ccs.neu.edu [129.10.116.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01329 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:40:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rcp@ccs.neu.edu) Received: from denali.ccs.neu.edu (rcp@denali.ccs.neu.edu [129.10.116.200]) by amber.ccs.neu.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA03934 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 18:39:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 18:39:54 -0500 (EST) From: "Robert C. Pacheco" To: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Iomega Zip Drive Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Can someone help me configure and use an Iomega Parallel Port Zip Drive? --Rob. rcp@ccs.neu.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Dec 14 19:40:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA03101 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:40:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au (babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au [130.194.164.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA03096 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:40:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from graeme@babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au) Received: from localhost (graeme@localhost) by babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA09900; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:44:00 +1100 Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:43:59 +1100 (EST) From: Graeme Cross Reply-To: Graeme.Cross@sci.monash.edu.au To: "Robert C. Pacheco" cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Iomega Zip Drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-Attribution: gjc X-PGP-Key-ID: 702DB549 X-URL: http://www.wsc.monash.edu.au/~graeme/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Robert C. Pacheco wrote: >Can someone help me configure and use an Iomega Parallel Port Zip Drive? Rob - this is a question best asked on the freebsd-questions mailing list. You will need to supply a bit more information, specifically which version of FreeBSD you are using, as FreeBSD 3.0 has support built-in for the parallel port ZIP drives (as far as I know), whereas with the 2.2.x kernels, you have to apply a few patches to the kernel source first. If you are using 2.2.x, have a look at: http://www.prism.uvsq.fr/~son/PPBUS/ppbus.html Cheers Graeme -- Graeme Cross Water Studies Centre, Monash University Phone: +61 3 990 54089 Clayton, Victoria, Australia To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Dec 15 02:31:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA10908 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 02:31:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lizard.numard.com.ar (dialin113.telstra.rpi.net.au [203.41.12.213]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA10774 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 02:31:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from numard@numard.com.ar) Received: from lizard.numard.com.ar (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lizard.numard.com.ar (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA00855 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:33:08 +1100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on Linux X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-RealName: Norberto Meijome Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:33:08 +1100 (EST) Reply-To: numard@numard.com.ar Organization: 0xCode From: Numard To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Read error @ boot time Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ( please, CC to me 'cos i'm not in the list). hi! i installed FreeBSD 2.2.7, no problems @ all, from a CD i made from the FTP (almost everything). when i want to boot from the HD, it reads the HD for less than a sec, and it gives me "Read Error" and dies there. everything goes ok if i boot from floppy, using 0:wd(0,a)kernel (being kernel either the original one or my new recompiled one)... what could be the problem? i've changed the HD geom. from CHS to LBA to Large (not from the bios, but from fdisk), exactly the same result... TIA!!! --- Norberto Meijome (a) Numard - PGP public key: pgp-numy@numard.com.ar Think sideways! -- Ed De Bono To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Dec 15 09:58:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA27988 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:58:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.pair.com (relay1.pair.com [209.68.1.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA27980 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:58:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from germar@pair.com) Received: from market5 (market4.kvue.com [207.170.119.70]) by relay.pair.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA23655 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 12:58:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <009601be2851$fcc6c6a0$4677aacf@market5.kvue.com> From: "Gerry Marcelo" To: Subject: How much RAM for newbie install? Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:40:15 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greetings: I am awaiting the arrival of my Walnut Creek CD-ROM package of FreeBSD 2.2.8. I am a flat out newbie to UNIX after years of Microsoft products. I wish to learn how to eventually set up a FreeBSD/Apache server with MS Frontpage 98 extentions for use as a small Intranet server. I wish to install FreeBSD on the following "lab" computer to learn. It will be the only OS on the machine. i486sx25 overclocked to 33 (chipset escapes me right now) 8megs of ram 2.0 Maxtor IDE hard drive Trident 8900D video card with 1mg ram No name multi-io card No name 28.8 internal modem OAS brand SVGA monitor I believe the above equipment will allow an install (5meg minimum, correct?), but how much ram should I really have to allow me to learn the following: 1. How to use the OS, it's filesystem and basic operation 2. Experiment with Xwindows 3. Install and become familiar with Apache/FP98 Extentions This machine will never be used as a production machine...just for me to mess around with a learn what I can...I guess you might place it as a workstation class machine. So how much ram might I need to to get all this done? Any suggestions on other types of hardware better suited for this task? Thank you for your assistance. Gerry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Dec 15 14:14:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA04425 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:14:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from random.static.greatland.net (random.static.greatland.net [209.112.190.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA04413 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:14:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from random@random.static.greatland.net) Received: from localhost (random@localhost) by random.static.greatland.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01669; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:14:33 -0900 (AKST) (envelope-from random@random.static.greatland.net) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:14:32 -0900 (AKST) From: Random Liegh To: Gerry Marcelo cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How much RAM for newbie install? In-Reply-To: <009601be2851$fcc6c6a0$4677aacf@market5.kvue.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Gerry Marcelo wrote: > Greetings: > I am awaiting the arrival of my Walnut Creek CD-ROM package > of FreeBSD 2.2.8. I am a flat out newbie to UNIX after years of > Microsoft products. I wish to learn how to eventually set up a > FreeBSD/Apache server with MS Frontpage 98 extentions for use as a small > Intranet server. > Hello, and congrats. :) You are in a good and a bad posistion there...especially w/ *that* ambitious of a project. the bad news: >From what you're saying there, that's not exactly the best back ground to approach FreeBSD from. You are in for a *world* of reading. I suggest you get very familiar w/ the browser "lynx" (it's text based, run from your console--very great for reading because it doesn't load the images that tend to clutter most web pages). Were I you I would grab a *Large* quantity of the "beverage of your choice" and then once you have your system installed flip to a text console (Not X--though you can do this from X) and run the following command to view the online docs (I do so w/ such frequency I've made a shell script of it): lynx /usr/share/doc/handbook/handbook.html As far as your ambitions go ... *whew*; I wish ya luck on that. I have no idea of where the rubber meets the road on setting up servers, so I've no idea of what is or isn't possible. Please keep us (or at least *me*) posted. :-) The good news: In my experience (I've been into personal computers since 7/94; have "played" w/ various versions of Linux; never really settling w/ any distribution for very long, this being my 2nd install of FreeBSD. *mainly* my "os of choice" having *also* been M$ windows) you've picked the *nix that requires the least amount of "setup tinkering". I installed FreeBSD this past weekend, and at the same time my best friend installed a new distribution (to her) of Linux called SuSE. I was up and running --- with X-windows and ppp configured--inside of 6 hours...that's *including* the time it took to d/l everything from ftp.freebsd.org. She just *yesterday* got X-windows to run, after much consternation on both of our parts (and she has been using Linux exclusively since 96, and is by no means a "newbie" to Linux setup). So...to wit; you have chosen (imho) the best,easiest *nix to set up and actually get *running*. > I wish to install FreeBSD on the following "lab" computer to learn. > It will be the only OS on the machine. > > i486sx25 overclocked to 33 (chipset escapes me right now) > 8megs of ram > 2.0 Maxtor IDE hard drive > Trident 8900D video card with 1mg ram > No name multi-io card > No name 28.8 internal modem > OAS brand SVGA monitor > the other good news. You have more then sufficent equipment to be running effeciently. here's what I am using: 486 DX/2 66 (my first install was to a 486 DX 33) 8 megs of ram (allocate *Plenty* of swap space for X -- it seems to require *alot* more memory than on a Linux machine...14 megs, just to have a few Xterms up, according to top.) 1.7 gig seagate drive (w/ 350megs dedicated to Linux; and 1.35 dedicated to FreeBSD) No-name standard vga card No-name svga monitor generic 28.8 external modem Everything; outside of some DIY configuration runs like a charm (except netscape...but *that* won't run 'cos it won't play w/ the VGA16 server... shouldn't be a prob for you since you're using SVGA) > I believe the above equipment will allow an install (5meg minimum, > correct?), but how much ram should I really have to allow me to learn the > following: > 1. How to use the OS, it's filesystem and basic operation > 2. Experiment with Xwindows > 3. Install and become familiar with Apache/FP98 Extentions > No idea about number 3. But I find myself pretty happy w/ my set up. Might be a touch slow, considering your processor. As long as you have the HD space for a sufficent swap partition (I, myself, would recommend 30-50 megs) RAM shouldn't be an issue; instead you should look into getting a new motherboard if possible (I consider what I have to be the *bare* minimum for *good* day to day performance). > This machine will never be used as a production machine...just for me to > mess around with a learn what I can...I guess you might place it as a > workstation class machine. > > So how much ram might I need to to get all this done? > Any suggestions on other types of hardware better suited for this task? > Hm, you have sufficent equipment right now; but then again; more ram and a faster processor is *always* nice; regardless of your OS. ;) > Thank you for your assistance. > > Gerry Hope this has helped; sorry again for the lenth of the letter. :/ Sincerly -Random (my real-life, if not *legal* name. ;) ) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Dec 15 18:24:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA06750 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:24:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uhura.concentric.net (uhura.concentric.net [206.173.119.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA06745 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:24:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mlduke@newman.concentric.net) Received: from cliff.concentric.net (cliff [206.173.119.90]) by uhura.concentric.net (8.9.1a/(98/11/30 5.11)) id VAA10084; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:23:57 -0500 (EST) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from ts002d46.mer-id.concentric.net (ts002d46.mer-id.concentric.net [206.173.184.106]) by cliff.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id VAA28933; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:23:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 19:24:06 -0700 (MST) From: ML Duke X-Sender: mlduke@concentric.net To: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: vi Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Just had a little experience some others might be interested in. Received a word 97 file from a client. StarOffice would no open it in any form. Tried editing it with ee, with an eye to edit out the garbage (a _whole lot_ of it) & print the 1.5 pages of useful data. The file defied being edited in ee. Enter vi. Using the "de" command=delete to end of word, the garbage preceeding the good text vanished very quickly, then "dd" quickly eliminated the garbage following the good text. Duke To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Dec 15 22:55:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA01973 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:55:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhub.ainet.com (mailhub.ainet.com [204.30.40.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA01968 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:55:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmscott@ainet.com) Received: from shell.ainet.com (jmscott@shell.ainet.com [204.30.40.108]) by mailhub.ainet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA07899; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:55:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by shell.ainet.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13278; for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 15 Dec 98 22:57:33 PST Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:57:33 -0800 (PST) From: "Joseph M. Scott" To: Gerry Marcelo Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How much RAM for newbie install? In-Reply-To: <009601be2851$fcc6c6a0$4677aacf@market5.kvue.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org __MY $0.02__ Once things are up and going ram is probably the first thing to hit the wall. X can certainly begin to eat into things, although this will vary depending on the window manager that you use ( enlightment is a massive pig, although it looks neat :-). Even then it's not too bad as long as you don't run an app like Netscape ( which is one big pig also ). I've had good luck with rxvt as a replacement for xterm, some nice features and a little better memory usuage. Overall for X 8 meg will run but it will hit the swap a fair bit. 16 meg would probably allow you to run a few small apps with out hitting swap to much. Although if you can live with the performance hit then just make plenty of swap space and run with it. As for Apace and Front Page save your self a lot of headache and use the apache+fp port ( install the ports collection during the install and after the system is up go to /usr/ports/www/apache13-fp and type make install ). It will download the needed files, compile apache run the fp install and get things going. You'll still want to go through things after it's setup, but trust me it makes the frontpage part of things much easier to deal with. You entering an awesome new world with much to learn. * Joseph M. Scott * jmscott@ainet.com * American InfoMetrics * Modesto, CA On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Gerry Marcelo wrote: > Greetings: > I am awaiting the arrival of my Walnut Creek CD-ROM package > of FreeBSD 2.2.8. I am a flat out newbie to UNIX after years of > Microsoft products. I wish to learn how to eventually set up a > FreeBSD/Apache server with MS Frontpage 98 extentions for use as a small > Intranet server. > > I wish to install FreeBSD on the following "lab" computer to learn. > It will be the only OS on the machine. > > i486sx25 overclocked to 33 (chipset escapes me right now) > 8megs of ram > 2.0 Maxtor IDE hard drive > Trident 8900D video card with 1mg ram > No name multi-io card > No name 28.8 internal modem > OAS brand SVGA monitor > > I believe the above equipment will allow an install (5meg minimum, > correct?), but how much ram should I really have to allow me to learn the > following: > 1. How to use the OS, it's filesystem and basic operation > 2. Experiment with Xwindows > 3. Install and become familiar with Apache/FP98 Extentions > > This machine will never be used as a production machine...just for me to > mess around with a learn what I can...I guess you might place it as a > workstation class machine. > > So how much ram might I need to to get all this done? > Any suggestions on other types of hardware better suited for this task? > > Thank you for your assistance. > > Gerry > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Dec 16 02:17:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA19913 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 02:17:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freedom.cybertouch.org (freedom.cybertouch.org [209.135.122.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA19908 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 02:17:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from beef@freedom.cybertouch.org) Received: from localhost (beef@localhost) by freedom.cybertouch.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA14544; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 05:17:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from beef@freedom.cybertouch.org) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 05:17:29 -0500 (EST) From: Lanny Baron To: Gerry Marcelo cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How much RAM for newbie install? In-Reply-To: <009601be2851$fcc6c6a0$4677aacf@market5.kvue.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Gerry Marcelo wrote: > Greetings: Ditto :-) > I am awaiting the arrival of my Walnut Creek CD-ROM package > of FreeBSD 2.2.8. I am a flat out newbie to UNIX after years of > Microsoft products. I wish to learn how to eventually set up a > FreeBSD/Apache server with MS Frontpage 98 extentions for use as a small > Intranet server. May I point you to to Greg Lehey's Book (really a newbie and even intermediate's BIBLE) The Complete FreeBSD. > > I wish to install FreeBSD on the following "lab" computer to learn. > It will be the only OS on the machine. > > i486sx25 overclocked to 33 (chipset escapes me right now) > 8megs of ram > 2.0 Maxtor IDE hard drive > Trident 8900D video card with 1mg ram > No name multi-io card > No name 28.8 internal modem > OAS brand SVGA monitor Well I can tell you, that with Xwindows running, and assuming you are going to run a few applications, it will be s l o w. Try running Netscape on your new FreeBSD box, start up a new Xterm and run top. That will tell you how much cpu is being used amongst other things. There is also some X programs like xload which will also give you information. And with only 8 megs of ram, forget about making a ramdrive. Oh and another good test is to play mp3 files. Let me know how they sound. Good luck, and dont forget or overlook getting Greg Lehey's The Complete FreeBSD. If you see how good that book is, you might consider getting "Porting Unix Software" which is also written by Mr. Lehey. > I believe the above equipment will allow an install (5meg minimum, > correct?), but how much ram should I really have to allow me to learn the > following: > 1. How to use the OS, it's filesystem and basic operation > 2. Experiment with Xwindows > 3. Install and become familiar with Apache/FP98 Extentions The more the better. But you can try with 8 and try the tests as explained above. Then you will be able to judge for your self. > > This machine will never be used as a production machine...just for me to > mess around with a learn what I can...I guess you might place it as a > workstation class machine. > > So how much ram might I need to to get all this done? > Any suggestions on other types of hardware better suited for this task? > > Thank you for your assistance. > > Gerry welcome, Lanny To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Dec 16 09:34:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA15381 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:34:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (s205m64.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA15221 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:34:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA14342; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:32:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:32:46 -0800 (PST) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199812161732.JAA14342@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: mlduke@concentric.net, newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vi In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 19:24:06 -0700 (MST) >From: ML Duke >... >Enter vi. Using the "de" command=delete to end of word, the garbage >preceeding the good text vanished very quickly, then "dd" quickly >eliminated the garbage following the good text. If you start doing more things with vi, I expect you will be positively impressed with some of the things it can do. Some of them are even useful :-) [as opposed, for example, to using vi macros to generate & solve mazes in the edit buffer -- which I heard that someone did...]. One example of a general approach that, combined with the tendency in UNIX systems to have fairly special-purpose, small(ish) programs that do a small number of things, mostly by reading "standard input" and writing "standard output" (i.e., "filters"): The cursor-movement commands may be used, in combination with "!", to select (part of) the edit buffer as "standard input" for an arbitrary pipeline of commands; the "standard output" of that pipeline will replace the selected part of the edit buffer. Thus, to sort a file that you're editing: 1G!Gsort does the trick. But if you just want to sort a handful of (non-blank) lines, and you can arrange for an empty line above and below the lines in question, position the cursor at the first line and try: !}sort to sort just those lines. Of course, these could be rather more elaborate.... david -- David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Dec 16 12:09:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03695 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:09:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from info1.info.tampere.fi (MCDXXXV.dyn.sci.fi [195.197.4.235] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03684 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:09:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lmkjuksi@info1.info.tampere.fi) Received: from info1.info.tampere.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by info1.info.tampere.fi (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA00459 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:04:46 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from lmkjuksi@info1.info.tampere.fi) Message-Id: <199812162004.WAA00459@info1.info.tampere.fi> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Easy and flexible - fbsd Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:04:40 +0200 From: Jukka Similä Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id MAA03691 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Can anyone imagine how difficult it is to change ISP? - I mean it is difficult if you use windows and something goes wrong. I just changed my isp, and this is also a test, i want to see how my things work (I didn't change my mail settings yet, so everything should be just like it was, i think) . Anyway I used three (3) evenings when I tried to connect the registration (?) server from winNT, (i got an installation cd for windows from my new isp) and then i couldn't stand it anymore. I changed to fbsd, connected manually to the server and it was another five minutes and registration was completed. I spend six more minutes to change the phonenumber and the chat script from /etc/ppp.conf , and now my new connection works. (from fbsd , I think I won't even set it up to windows) now i still got to make my mail go thru my new isp, but it was just about 15 minutes to make all important to work in freebsd. i think windows is just fine when it works. if it ever works. i don't know. haven't seen. hope someday i will. since that I'm glad i got fbsd. I don't know how my addresses show up, but at least should work. Jukka S To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Dec 16 13:10:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12229 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:10:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from online.no (pilt-s.online.no [148.122.208.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA12224 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:10:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from havardjv@gudmund.vgs.no) Received: from gealach.myst.no (ti21a23-0075.dialup.online.no [130.67.196.75]) by online.no (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA27700; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:10:19 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (hjv@localhost) by gealach.myst.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA00178; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:48:58 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from havardjv@gudmund.vgs.no) X-Authentication-Warning: gealach.myst.no: hjv owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:48:58 +0100 (CET) From: Haavard Vaagstoel X-Sender: hjv@gealach.myst.no To: ML Duke cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vi & word documents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, ML Duke wrote: > Just had a little experience some others might be interested in. > Received a word 97 file from a client. StarOffice would no open it > in any form. Tried editing it with ee, with an eye to edit out the > garbage (a _whole lot_ of it) & print the 1.5 pages of useful data. > The file defied being edited in ee. > Enter vi. Using the "de" command=delete to end of word, the garbage > preceeding the good text vanished very quickly, then "dd" quickly > eliminated the garbage following the good text. Of course, it's possible to do it like that, but there also exist programs that will convert a Word .doc file to text. 'catdoc' is one such program, though at the moment I cannot remember if it can convert w97 files or only w95 and below. -- Haavard Vaagstoel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Dec 16 13:41:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16597 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:41:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from random.static.greatland.net (random.static.greatland.net [209.112.190.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16569 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:41:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from random@random.static.greatland.net) Received: from localhost (random@localhost) by random.static.greatland.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA01302; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:41:23 -0900 (AKST) (envelope-from random@random.static.greatland.net) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:41:20 -0900 (AKST) From: Random Liegh To: Haavard Vaagstoel cc: ML Duke , newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vi & word documents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org My $0.02 ... With the way word changes, I wouldn't count on *Any* program being able to consistently read word files; so I've saved ML Duke's letter for future reference. I use pico, and religiously avoid vi 'cos it's so arcane; but on the other hand, reading any tips at all about it makes it less so, so if ya care to share any other tips at any other time, ML Duke, please do. btw--I installed mswordview from the packages...haven't tried it yet, though. -Random On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Haavard Vaagstoel wrote: > On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, ML Duke wrote: > > > Just had a little experience some others might be interested in. > > Received a word 97 file from a client. StarOffice would no open it > > in any form. Tried editing it with ee, with an eye to edit out the > > garbage (a _whole lot_ of it) & print the 1.5 pages of useful data. > > The file defied being edited in ee. > > > Enter vi. Using the "de" command=delete to end of word, the garbage > > preceeding the good text vanished very quickly, then "dd" quickly > > eliminated the garbage following the good text. > > Of course, it's possible to do it like that, but there also exist programs > that will convert a Word .doc file to text. 'catdoc' is one such program, > though at the moment I cannot remember if it can convert w97 files or only > w95 and below. > > -- > Haavard Vaagstoel > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Dec 16 14:36:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA23132 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:36:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from online.no (pilt-s.online.no [148.122.208.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA23126 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:36:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from havardjv@gudmund.vgs.no) Received: from gealach.myst.no (ti21a26-0001.dialup.online.no [130.67.192.129]) by online.no (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA01912; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:36:07 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (hjv@localhost) by gealach.myst.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA00871; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:35:56 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from havardjv@gudmund.vgs.no) X-Authentication-Warning: gealach.myst.no: hjv owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:35:46 +0100 (CET) From: Haavard Vaagstoel X-Sender: hjv@gealach.myst.no To: Random Liegh cc: Haavard Vaagstoel , ML Duke , newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vi & word documents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Random Liegh wrote: > My $0.02 ... > With the way word changes, I wouldn't count on *Any* program being able to > consistently read word files; so I've saved ML Duke's letter for future > reference. I use pico, and religiously avoid vi 'cos it's so arcane; but > on the other hand, reading any tips at all about it makes it less so, so > if ya care to share any other tips at any other time, ML Duke, please do. > btw--I installed mswordview from the packages...haven't tried it yet, > though. It seems to me that you're a bit quick to judge ;) I haven't tried the conversion utilities a lot, so I can't really claim that I know they work satisfactory. Indeed, considering the fact that we are talking about the MS Word format, I would doubt it. But try them, at least. Using vi seems (to me) like a waste of time if other methods work just as well... -- Haavard Vaagstoel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Dec 16 15:09:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27216 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:09:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from laker.net (jet.laker.net [205.245.74.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA27210 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:09:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sfriedri@laker.net) Received: from nt (digital-pbi-119.laker.net [208.0.233.19]) by laker.net (8.9.0/8.9.LAKERNET.NO-SPAM.SPAMMERS.AND.RELAYS.WILL.BE.TRACKED.AND.PROSECUTED.) with SMTP id SAA03381; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:08:39 -0500 Message-Id: <199812162308.SAA03381@laker.net> From: "Steve Friedrich" To: "Haavard Vaagstoel" , "Random Liegh" Cc: "ML Duke" , "newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:05:43 -0500 Reply-To: "Steve Friedrich" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows NT (4.0.1381;3) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: vi & word documents Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:35:46 +0100 (CET), Haavard Vaagstoel wrote: >> ...religiously avoid vi 'cos it's so arcane; but >> on the other hand, reading any tips at all about it makes it less so, so >> if ya care to share any other tips at any other time... BTW, O'Reilly has a vi book. I've been wanting it for years (now in it's SIXTH edition), maybe I'll get it soon... >It seems to me that you're a bit quick to judge ;) I think he was lambasting that Microsoft purposely changes (allegedly) their format to screw Lotus, Corel, and everybody else. Many people believe it is Microsoft's tactic to change the format so you can't effectively export out of their product and import into a competitor's product. I believed it BEFORE the anti-trust trial, and the trial evidence supports such suspicions, IMO. I had heard that the latest Applixware imports Word docs. Can anyone confirm (even based on the latest Linux version)? Steve Friedrich Viva la FreeBSD!! Unix systems measure "uptime" in years, Winblows measures it in minutes. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Dec 16 15:10:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27473 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:10:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from random.static.greatland.net (random.static.greatland.net [209.112.190.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA27445 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:10:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from random@random.static.greatland.net) Received: from localhost (random@localhost) by random.static.greatland.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01397; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:10:03 -0900 (AKST) (envelope-from random@random.static.greatland.net) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:10:01 -0900 (AKST) From: Random Liegh To: Haavard Vaagstoel cc: ML Duke , newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vi & word documents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Haavard Vaagstoel wrote: > On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Random Liegh wrote: > > > My $0.02 ... > > With the way word changes, I wouldn't count on *Any* program being able to > > consistently read word files; so I've saved ML Duke's letter for future [snipped irrelevancy] > It seems to me that you're a bit quick to judge ;) > > I haven't tried the conversion utilities a lot, so I can't really claim > that I know they work satisfactory. Indeed, considering the fact that we > are talking about the MS Word format, I would doubt it. But try them, at > least. Using vi seems (to me) like a waste of time if other methods work > just as well... > I completely agree; my point is only that w/ the variance in word versions, and the frequency that it changes, you'll end up sooner or later with a document that a converter hasn't been written for. Then the vi tips will probably put you in good stead. :) > -- > Haavard Vaagstoel -Random To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Dec 16 15:45:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01377 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:45:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from online.no (pilt-s.online.no [148.122.208.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01363 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:45:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from havardjv@gudmund.vgs.no) Received: from gealach.myst.no (ti21a26-0001.dialup.online.no [130.67.192.129]) by online.no (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA02991; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 00:45:19 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (hjv@localhost) by gealach.myst.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA00997; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 00:45:45 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from havardjv@gudmund.vgs.no) X-Authentication-Warning: gealach.myst.no: hjv owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 00:45:42 +0100 (CET) From: Haavard Vaagstoel X-Sender: hjv@gealach.myst.no To: Random Liegh cc: Haavard Vaagstoel , ML Duke , newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vi & word documents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Random Liegh wrote: > I completely agree; my point is only that w/ the variance in word > versions, and the frequency that it changes, you'll end up sooner or later > with a document that a converter hasn't been written for. Then the vi tips > will probably put you in good stead. :) I believe I have seen on MS' web pages that they plan that future versions of Office will use HTML as the main file format, but surely this must be wrong? Because if it was true, MS may be digging their own grave... :) -- Haavard Vaagstoel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Dec 16 15:49:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA02051 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:49:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from random.static.greatland.net (random.static.greatland.net [209.112.190.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA02046 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:49:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from random@random.static.greatland.net) Received: from localhost (random@localhost) by random.static.greatland.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01482; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:49:49 -0900 (AKST) (envelope-from random@random.static.greatland.net) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:49:48 -0900 (AKST) From: Random Liegh To: Haavard Vaagstoel cc: ML Duke , newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vi & word documents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, Haavard Vaagstoel wrote: > On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Random Liegh wrote: > > > I completely agree; my point is only that w/ the variance in word > > versions, and the frequency that it changes, you'll end up sooner or later > > with a document that a converter hasn't been written for. Then the vi tips > > will probably put you in good stead. :) > > I believe I have seen on MS' web pages that they plan that future versions > of Office will use HTML as the main file format, but surely this must be > wrong? Because if it was true, MS may be digging their own grave... :) > > -- > Haavard Vaagstoel > > LOL, we should have such good luck! As likely as not, they'd make up for the loss in other ways....maybe by having "more advanced features" incorportating (their proprietary version of) java? Still....it *IS* a nice dream, them digging their own grave, I mean. :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Dec 16 17:01:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA12071 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:01:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason02.u.washington.edu (jason02.u.washington.edu [140.142.76.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA12055 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:01:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eroubinc@u.washington.edu) Received: from dante31.u.washington.edu (eroubinc@dante31.u.washington.edu [140.142.15.105]) by jason02.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id RAA23728; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:01:36 -0800 Received: from localhost (eroubinc@localhost) by dante31.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id RAA75692; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:01:36 -0800 Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:01:36 -0800 (PST) From: Evgeny Roubinchtein To: Random Liegh cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vi & word documents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Random Liegh wrote: >consistently read word files; so I've saved ML Duke's letter for future >reference. I use pico, and religiously avoid vi 'cos it's so arcane; but >on the other hand, reading any tips at all about it makes it less so, so I keep hearing "vi is sooo arcane", and the only "arcane" bit is the fact that it has _two_modes_. In one mode it will put every single keystroke you type into the buffer, in another mode it most keystrokes you type are commands. Just like having an over-eager assistant, who would write "stop" literally when you mean "stop writing". The way to tell vi: "I want to give some commands" is to hit the ESC key. The command structure totally makes sense: e.g you type "w" to move forward a word "cw" to change a word and "dw" to delete a word, and so on -- see how things fit together? And then you can run search-and-replace commands and filter text through external programs and, with nvi, even run Perl commands on lines... I think learning vi is well worth it, and I don't think it's as dawnting as people tend to think. Just my $0.2 -- Evgeny Roubinchtein, eroubinc@u.washington.edu ................... DSO: Do Something or Other To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Dec 16 19:43:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA27355 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:43:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uhura.concentric.net (uhura.concentric.net [206.173.119.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA27350 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:43:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mlduke@newman.concentric.net) Received: from marconi.concentric.net (marconi [206.173.119.71]) by uhura.concentric.net (8.9.1a/(98/12/15 5.12)) id WAA21364; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:43:03 -0500 (EST) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from ts002d05.mer-id.concentric.net (ts002d05.mer-id.concentric.net [206.173.184.65]) by marconi.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id WAA21131; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:43:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 20:43:13 -0700 (MST) From: ML Duke X-Sender: mlduke@concentric.net To: Evgeny Roubinchtein cc: Random Liegh , newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vi & word documents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I think learning vi is well worth it, and I don't think it's as dawnting > as people tend to think. So says my Unix mentor as well. With a bit of background with a truly powerful text editing system-Xerox Viewpoint w/Document Editor-- from which billy & boys stole much but are not even close to catching up with yet--the power in vi is intuitively obvious. With just a _little_ practice, switching modes with the left little finger is _remarkably_ fast. Doesn't hardly interrupt a thing. But, boy oh boy, a little documentation would help a _lot_, and it seems the new edition of "famous vi book" is _never_ coming out as promised. ML Duke To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Dec 16 19:50:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA28386 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:50:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.184.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA28333 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:49:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mlduke@newman.concentric.net) Received: from mcfeely.concentric.net (mcfeely [207.155.184.83]) by darius.concentric.net (8.9.1a/(98/08/04 5.11)) id WAA16590; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:49:43 -0500 (EST) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from ts002d05.mer-id.concentric.net (ts002d05.mer-id.concentric.net [206.173.184.65]) by mcfeely.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id WAA15227; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:49:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 20:49:54 -0700 (MST) From: ML Duke X-Sender: mlduke@concentric.net To: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ftp Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Little facinating item (from my point of view) I thought I'd pass on. If I did it, figure others have. Do: "ftp ftp.freebsd.org" Not: "ftp freebsd.org" Or whatever. The devil in the detail errors in available books are astounding. Personal thanks to my Unix Mentor who, I think, wouuld wish to remain a public ftp logon. ML Duke To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Dec 16 20:13:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA00530 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 20:13:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from voyager.planb.com.au (voyager.planb.com.au [203.35.172.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA00524 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 20:13:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kevin@planb.net.au) Received: from fossil.planb.com.au (fossil.planb.com.au [203.35.172.145]) by voyager.planb.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA09352; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:13:14 +1100 (EST) Received: by fossil.planb.com.au with Microsoft Mail id <01BE29C7.7CF34120@fossil.planb.com.au>; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:13:58 +1100 Message-ID: <01BE29C7.7CF34120@fossil.planb.com.au> From: Kevin Sheehan To: "'ML Duke'" Cc: "newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: RE: vi & word documents Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:13:57 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id UAA00526 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ML Duke writes: >So says my Unix mentor as well. With a bit of background with a >truly powerful text editing system-Xerox Viewpoint w/Document Editor-- >from which billy & boys stole much but are not even close to catching >up with yet--the power in vi is intuitively obvious. Sorry, but I couldn't help but notice the Viewpoint / Globalview ref. It would be closer to the truth to say Xerox gave it away than had it stolen wouldn't it? Do you still use it? It's a pitty MS and others didn't take more from it... makes me wish I still had a 6085 :-) ... I'll let you get back to the vi discussion.... Rgs. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Dec 17 09:00:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA19052 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 09:00:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp2.globalserve.net (smtp2.globalserve.net [209.90.128.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA19045 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 09:00:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scqdaf@globalserve.net) Received: from [10.1.0.5] (dialin1338.toronto.globalserve.net [209.90.135.67]) by smtp2.globalserve.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA14447 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:44:57 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Sender: scqdaf#mail.globalserve.net@10.1.0.1 (Unverified) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:02:11 -0500 To: FreeBSD-Newbies From: Dennis Favro Subject: CheapBytes - How Good? Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've decided to get my next version of FreeBSD (and a bunch of other goodies) from CheapBytes. Anyone here order from them before? How are they? --Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Dec 17 09:16:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA20643 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 09:16:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.184.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA20638 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 09:16:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mlduke@newman.concentric.net) Received: from mcfeely.concentric.net (mcfeely [207.155.184.83]) by darius.concentric.net (8.9.1a/(98/08/04 5.11)) id MAA07883; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:16:45 -0500 (EST) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from ts001d45.mer-id.concentric.net (ts001d45.mer-id.concentric.net [206.173.184.57]) by mcfeely.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id MAA17528; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:16:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:16:54 -0700 (MST) From: ML Duke X-Sender: mlduke@concentric.net To: Kevin Sheehan cc: "newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: RE: vi & word documents In-Reply-To: <01BE29C7.7CF34120@fossil.planb.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >up with yet--the power in vi is intuitively obvious. > > Sorry, but I couldn't help but notice the Viewpoint / Globalview ref. It would be closer to the truth to say Xerox gave it away than had it stolen wouldn't it? Yes and no. They gave it away in the sense they didn't know what to _do_ with it, but they did try to protect themselves: The first lawsuit against the Mac folk they won by an out of court settlement for "an undisclosed sum." The second, jointly against $ms & ibm resulted in a ruling that it was now "in the public domain". > Do you still use it? It's a pitty MS and others didn't take more from it... makes me wish I still had a 6085 :-) Make me an offer :) The 6085 is in perfect working order save the 4045 thinks its out of paper and Xerox wants their normal fortune to tell it otherwise. Three of the main boards are practically new. ($150-$300, _not_ $3000) I've also got GVWin on CD, the ultimate surrender. (if there was ever a disgusting turn of events--that was it.) But, it loads up and runs fine as long as one knows the documentation contains roughly half of what's necessary and is accustomed to loading up Viewpoint. Send me a box of some kind with windows on it, and I'll load it up and send it back will all options but that "professional" drawing whatever its called. > > ... I'll let you get back to the vi discussion.... Starting to like this one better. Haven't met someone who knows what a 6085 is for a _long_ time. And a little bit of computer development history never hurt anybody. ML Duke > Rgs. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Dec 17 12:44:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA14139 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:44:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dsinw.com (dsinw.com [207.149.40.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA14134 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:44:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hamellr@dsinw.com) Received: from direct-source.com.direct-source.com (ppp72.pm3-0.pdx.dsinw.com [207.149.41.72]) by dsinw.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA06229; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:43:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:35:14 -0800 () From: Rick Hamell To: Dennis Favro cc: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: Re: CheapBytes - How Good? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-X-Sender: hamellr@dsinw.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I've decided to get my next version of FreeBSD (and a bunch of > other goodies) from CheapBytes. Anyone here order from them before? > How are they? They're not to bad. Essentially what they send is a copy of the first disk in the 4disk set. My stuff has always arrived in an orderly fashion. They weren't to happy about me calling them voice the one time I did, but at the time they didn't have a way to contact them via e-mail either. For the price it's worth it though. I'm forever giving away those CDs. Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Dec 17 13:28:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18719 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:28:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vlad.sci.fi (laatikko.saunalahti.fi [195.74.0.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18706 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:28:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sjuke@info1.info.tampere.fi) Received: from info1.info.tampere.fi (MDCXX.dyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.5.120]) by vlad.sci.fi (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id XAA09628 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 23:28:26 +0200 (EET) Received: from info1.info.tampere.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by info1.info.tampere.fi (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA01064 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 23:23:24 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from sjuke@info1.info.tampere.fi) Message-Id: <199812172123.XAA01064@info1.info.tampere.fi> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: testing again Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 23:23:23 +0200 From: Jukka Similä Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id NAA18713 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hi I'm now testing my mail settings after I changed my isp, and tried to configure sendmail. I hope everything works, (it should, I tested it to my other mail address) my email address should be sjuke@saunalahti.fi. well, if it doesn't work, hmm, is always fine. Jukka S To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Dec 18 06:17:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA12846 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 06:17:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.bodensee.com (mail.bodensee.com [212.62.192.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA12839 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 06:17:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de) Received: from gw1.bodensee.com (root@gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de [194.163.242.39]) by mail.bodensee.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA10708 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 15:16:41 +0100 Received: from duffner.surf24.de (surf248.surf24.de [212.62.193.248]) by gw1.bodensee.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA22738 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 15:16:42 +0100 Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 15:10:17 +0100 (MEZ) From: Rainer M Duffner Subject: Re: vi & word documents To: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 X-Organization: enigma, http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~enigma X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id GAA12842 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu 17 Dec, Haavard Vaagstoel wrote: > On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Random Liegh wrote: > > > I completely agree; my point is only that w/ the variance in word > > versions, and the frequency that it changes, you'll end up sooner or later > > with a document that a converter hasn't been written for. Then the vi tips > > will probably put you in good stead. :) > > I believe I have seen on MS' web pages that they plan that future versions > of Office will use HTML as the main file format, but surely this must be > wrong? Because if it was true, MS may be digging their own grave... :) It's not HTML - it's XML. 'X' means eXtensible - and extending is what Microsoft is very good at (in comparison to "implementing") XML is not so easy to learn, as HTML3.2 was. Unfortunately. cheers, Rainer -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |Rainer Duffner, E-Mail: duffner@fh-konstanz.de | | & Rainer.Duffner@surf24.de | |Fachhochschule Konstanz, Germany | |"What's a Network ?" - Bill Gates, early 1980s | | Achtung: rainer.duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de | |(die alte E-Mail Adresse) verfällt zum 31.12.98 | | WWW:http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~duffner | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Dec 18 11:40:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA19738 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:40:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sar.anit.es (sar.anit.es [195.76.122.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA19732 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:40:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swalk@anit.es) Received: from laptop (p15-honeyeater-gui.tch.virgin.net [194.168.120.135]) by sar.anit.es (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA08239; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:40:09 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981218194002.007bc430@sar.anit.es> X-Sender: swalk@sar.anit.es X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 19:40:02 +0100 To: Evgeny Roubinchtein From: Steven Walker Subject: Re: vi & word documents Cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, > >I keep hearing "vi is sooo arcane", and the only "arcane" bit is the fact >that it has _two_modes_. In one mode it will put every single keystroke I would forgive it a lot if it used the backspace or delete keys!! It is Ok for expert typists but i spend my life trying to delete the previous letter. Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Dec 18 17:30:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA04265 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:30:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA04258 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:30:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id MAA19481 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 12:30:11 +1100 (EST) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 12:30:11 +1100 (EST) From: Sue Blake Message-Id: <199812190130.MAA19481@phoenix.welearn.com.au> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD Newbies First Aid Kit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FreeBSD-Newbies First Aid Kit (Last updated 30 August 1998) (This is a regular posting to the FreeBSD-Newbies mailing list. It is also available at http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/) FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.ORG is the place to send all questions about installing, configuring, running and using FreeBSD. All help requests are handled by FreeBSD-Questions, including newbies questions. FreeBSD-Newbies is different. We don't ask for help or answer how-to questions. It is a discussion forum for newbies. FreeBSD-Newbies provides a place for new FreeBSD users to meet and covers any of the activities of newbies that are not already dealt with elsewhere. Examples include helping each other to learn more on our own, finding and using resources, problem solving techniques, how to seek help elsewhere, how to use mailing lists and which lists to use, general chat, making mistakes, boasting, sharing ideas, stories, moral (but not technical) support, and taking an active part in the FreeBSD community. We take our problems and support questions to freebsd-questions, and use freebsd-newbies to meet others who are doing the same things that we do as newbies. One of the things we do together is learn more effective ways to find help when we need it. Here are some suggestions: When something doesn't work the way you expect 1. First look at the errata for your release of FreeBSD at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for the latest information and security advisories. 2. Search the Handbook, FAQ, and mail archives at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/search.html 3. If you still have a question or problem, collect the output of `uname -a' and of any relevant program(s) and email your question to FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. Mailing lists When you have a problem that you can't solve by yourself, there's only one support mailing list and that's FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. FreeBSD-questions helps with installation and basic setup as well as more general and advanced questions. You don't have to actually join freebsd-questions before asking a question there. Replies to your question will normally be sent to you personally as well as to the list. Just make sure you have read and followed the guidelines for posting, because you might find them different to what you're used to. If you do subscribe to freebsd-questions you'll have the advantage of seeing all of the recent questions and their answers. Before you post to FreeBSD-questions, please read the guidelines at http://www.lemis.com/questions.html Many of the people who answer FreeBSD-questions are very knowledgeable, but they get frustrated when they get questions which are difficult to understand. http://www.lemis.com/email.html is worth reading too. If you're not sure that you can follow these guidelines, come back and ask the other newbies for help on how to post an effective question to the support mailing list. Maybe your question has been asked before. If you search the mailing list archives at http://www.freebsd.org/search.html first you might get the answer right away. It's always worth trying. Other mailing lists (http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/eresources:charters.html) cover specialised areas and many are more developer-oriented. You'll need to read their charters carefully before participating, but it's probably a good idea to ask on either -newbies or -questions for advice about where to post a more specialised question. FreeBSD-announce is a very low volume read-only list for occasional announcements, such as notice of new releases, and the Really Quick Newsletter. It's worth subscribing to FreeBSD-announce too. Manuals You'll always be expected show that you have made some effort to use the available documentation before asking for help. That's not always as easy as it sounds! If you know what documentation you need but can't locate it, send a brief query to FreeBSD-questions. If you don't know what you need, always have trouble finding it, or can't make any sense of it when you do, ask some patient newbies to steer you in the right direction. Anyone interested in writing or reviewing documentation for FreeBSD is encouraged to join the FreeBSD Documentation Project. Details are at http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/docproj.html Other resources A resource list is available at http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html to help new and inexperienced FreeBSD users to find relevant information quickly. It includes books, on line documents and tutorials, and links to web pages that other newbies have found useful for learning. If you have a suggestion for good material to be included, please write to freebsd-newbies and tell us about it. But I have seen people asking questions here! It is quite common for people to send the wrong kind of post to a mailing list. Because we're newbies it'll certainly happen here from time to time. The best thing to do if you see a message that doesn't belong on a list is to ignore it. There's always someone around whose job it is to sort these problems out privately. The posts to the lists go straight through, whatever their content. It is going to be confusing for a little while because we're all newbies so we all make mistakes. That's OK. One thing we're going to see a fair bit is people posting questions, believing they're doing the right thing by posting here as newbies, not realising how it works. If someone answers those questions the situation will snowball. There's nothing wrong with helping someone to redirect their question to freebsd-questions, but please do so gently. There's nothing wrong with the occasional mistake either. So all questions, requests for help, etc still go to freebsd-questions as usual. Ours is more of a discussion group, a place where newbies can relax with other newbies and focus more on our successes than on our temporary imperfection. We can talk about things here that are not allowed on freebsd-questions. We're also a bit freer to make the mistakes that we need to make in order to learn. _________________________________________________________________ To Subscribe to FreeBSD-Newbies: Send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "subscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message. Mail sent to freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org appears on the mailing list. _________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Dec 18 19:40:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA15873 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 19:40:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason05.u.washington.edu (jason05.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA15868 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 19:40:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eroubinc@u.washington.edu) Received: from dante36.u.washington.edu (eroubinc@dante36.u.washington.edu [140.142.15.196]) by jason05.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id TAB40040; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 19:39:56 -0800 Received: from localhost (eroubinc@localhost) by dante36.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id TAA43730; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 19:39:56 -0800 Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 19:39:56 -0800 (PST) From: Evgeny Roubinchtein To: Steven Walker cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vi & word documents In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981218194002.007bc430@sar.anit.es> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 18 Dec 1998, Steven Walker wrote: >Hi, >> >>I keep hearing "vi is sooo arcane", and the only "arcane" bit is the fact >>that it has _two_modes_. In one mode it will put every single keystroke > >I would forgive it a lot if it used the backspace or delete keys!! It is >Ok for expert typists but i spend my life trying to delete the previous >letter. You mean you keep seeing the ^H when you try to use the Backspace key to delete? Sow^H if yuo^H^Hou mkae^H^H^Hake a mistake, you have hit ESC, then hx? Most likely, it isn't about vi, but about the way your terminal is set up. Are you using X or plain tty? With (t)csh, you may have luck with set noglob eval `tset -s` unset noglob in your .login (or .cshrc, depending on the situation). I am by no means an expert, but with a bit more details, maybe we can figure this out. It _is_ possible to get Backspace to work "as expected", I am pretty sure. -- Evgeny Roubinchtein, eroubinc@u.washington.edu ................... Satisfaction Guaranteed: We'll send you another copy if it fails. 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