From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Dec 20 12:38:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA18828 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:38:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sar.anit.es (sar.anit.es [195.76.122.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA18806 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:38:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swalk@anit.es) Received: from laptop (p34-siskin-gui.tch.virgin.net [194.168.73.154]) by sar.anit.es (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA21747; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 21:37:42 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981218224307.007d8d30@sar.anit.es> X-Sender: swalk@sar.anit.es X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 22:43:07 +0100 To: Evgeny Roubinchtein From: Steven Walker Subject: Re: vi & word documents Cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19981218194002.007bc430@sar.anit.es> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, >You mean you keep seeing the ^H when you try to use the Backspace key to >delete? Sow^H if yuo^H^Hou mkae^H^H^Hake a mistake, you have hit ESC, >then hx? Most likely, it isn't about vi, but about the way your terminal >is set up. Are you using X or plain tty? With (t)csh, you may have luck >with > >set noglob >eval `tset -s` >unset noglob To be honest I am not sure. I will look when I return in January and will let you know. Thanks for the input. Steve > >in your .login (or .cshrc, depending on the situation). I am by no means >an expert, but with a bit more details, maybe we can figure this out. >It _is_ possible to get Backspace to work "as expected", I am pretty sure. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Dec 20 16:37:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA13517 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 16:37:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oceanus.island.net (oceanus.island.net [199.60.19.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA13511 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 16:37:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chrisale@island.net) Received: from [204.239.42.134] (dyn124.island.net [204.239.42.134]) by oceanus.island.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/island) with ESMTP id QAA11269 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 16:37:30 -0800 X-Sender: chrisale@mail.island.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 16:37:28 -0800 To: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Chris Alemany Subject: SMC EZCard (1211TX) Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi there. I'd like to installl FreeBSD on my PC but have found that my NIC is not compatible. It's a SMC EZ Card 10/100 (SMC1211TX). I've looked in the archives and have only found one mention of this incompatibility (back in September) with no solution. Has a driver been made available? Is there anything I can do to make it work short of getting a new NIC. thanks, Chris "I put my thumb up to the window and blotted out the earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small." Neil Armstrong Apollo 11 my webpage: http://142.231.36.109/ Chris Alemany To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Dec 20 17:14:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA16436 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 17:14:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.mailsrvcs.net (mail1.gte.net [207.115.153.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA16424 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 17:14:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from acwag@gte.net) Received: from anthonyw (access85.dallas.geoquest.slb.com [163.185.228.85]) by mail1.mailsrvcs.net with SMTP id TAA04969 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 19:13:55 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981221071206.0092dcd0@mail.gte.net> X-Sender: acwag@mail.gte.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 (Demo) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 07:14:32 -0600 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Anthony Wagner Subject: Newbie Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I am trying to install FreeBSD on a Compaq 4160T laptop for the first time. I am new to Linux(But dispertly want to learn it) and FreeBsd.. I Would appreciate anyone that could provide me with a intro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Dec 20 18:29:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA21903 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 18:29:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA21891 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 18:29:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id NAA25391; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 13:28:51 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19981221132847.26934@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 13:28:47 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Chris Alemany , Anthony Wagner Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: newbie questions References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Chris Alemany on Sun, Dec 20, 1998 at 04:37:28PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi guys, welcome to FreeBSD! You probably haven't had a chance to read the list charters yet (http://www.freebsd.org/eresources:charters.html) so this might help. If you have any questions about FreeBSD, send them to freebsd-questions@freebsd.org. All questions from everyone are handled in that mailing list. If it needs a more specialised answer, they will direct you to help from there. We particularly avoid installation and how-to stuff here and just concentrate on the important business of chatter and fun that would get in the way in the support list. We only help each other use the mailing lists and find documentation etc. Sometimes we get involved in activities like reviewing documentation from a newbie perspective. For best results, before writing to freebsd-questions, check that you've used the available resources to solve it yourself and then let them know what you've tried. For more ideas on getting help, see http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies You might find http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html a handy starting point as well. Don't forget to come back here and tell us about yourself and your system later on! :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Dec 20 18:36:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22860 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 18:36:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.184.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA22852 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 18:36:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mlduke@newman.concentric.net) Received: from mcfeely.concentric.net (mcfeely [207.155.184.83]) by darius.concentric.net (8.9.1a/(98/08/04 5.11)) id VAA12091; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 21:36:43 -0500 (EST) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from ts002d06.mer-id.concentric.net (ts002d06.mer-id.concentric.net [206.173.184.66]) by mcfeely.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id VAA25395; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 21:36:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 19:36:53 -0700 (MST) From: ML Duke X-Sender: mlduke@concentric.net To: Anthony Wagner cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Newbie In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981221071206.0092dcd0@mail.gte.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I am trying to install FreeBSD on a Compaq 4160T laptop for the first time. > I am new to Linux(But dispertly want to learn it) and FreeBsd.. I Would > appreciate anyone that could provide me with a intro. Go to: ftp://ftp.freebsd.org and get the "install" pages, the FAQ and the handbook. (/pub/FreeBSD/2.2.7-RELEASE is probably best right now) Can't help with Linux. If you have trouble getting that stuff, say so and I'll attach the FAQ and handbook (in ascii) to an e-mail. ML Duke To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Dec 20 19:03:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA24446 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 19:03:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA24439 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 19:03:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id OAA25511; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:02:59 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19981221140255.41285@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:02:55 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Chris Alemany , Anthony Wagner Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: newbie questions References: <19981221132847.26934@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <19981221132847.26934@welearn.com.au>; from Sue Blake on Mon, Dec 21, 1998 at 01:28:47PM +1100 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Dec 21, 1998 at 01:28:47PM +1100, Sue Blake wrote: > Hi guys, welcome to FreeBSD! > > You probably haven't had a chance to read the list charters yet > (http://www.freebsd.org/eresources:charters.html) so this might help. Aaaarrrgghhh! Did it again! That URL is rubbish, rubbish! OK Sue, slow down, think... what's missing... http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/eresources:charters.html There! Actually, this was a deliberate example (ahem) of what happens when questions get answered by exhuberant newbies away from the knowing eyes of freebsd-questions. Well, some exhuberant newbies then. Not that we don't know the answers, it's just, well... sometimes it's too much fun to stop and get _everything_ right. (Thanks John :-) I think they'll believe this story, it worked last time.) -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Dec 21 08:40:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA15481 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:40:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hotmail.com (f199.hotmail.com [207.82.251.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA15476 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:40:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from killahnurd@hotmail.com) Received: (qmail 26721 invoked by uid 0); 21 Dec 1998 16:40:10 -0000 Message-ID: <19981221164010.26720.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.214.7.160 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:40:10 PST X-Originating-IP: [209.214.7.160] From: "E jose Matta" To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: X Windows Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:40:10 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Does all FreeBSD os's have it? Does X-Windows open all windows aplications or just some? Can you please describe x-windows for me? Thanx Killahnurd ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Dec 21 09:46:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA25036 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:46:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.184.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA24993 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:46:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mlduke@newman.concentric.net) Received: from newman.concentric.net (newman [207.155.184.71]) by darius.concentric.net (8.9.1a/(98/08/04 5.11)) id MAA03573; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 12:45:52 -0500 (EST) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from ts002d02.mer-id.concentric.net (ts002d02.mer-id.concentric.net [206.173.184.62]) by newman.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id MAA03235; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 12:45:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:46:06 -0700 (MST) From: ML Duke X-Sender: mlduke@concentric.net To: E jose Matta cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X Windows In-Reply-To: <19981221164010.26720.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Does all FreeBSD os's have it? > Does X-Windows open all windows aplications or just some? > Can you please describe x-windows for me? Its a graphical interface that opens (runs) applications (binaries) designed to be run in a graphical interface of which there are many: Netscape Navigator, Netscape Communicator, WsEdit, (create/edit html pages) inage viewers/editors, a whole lot of games and much, much more. If you are asking does it run mswindows apps, no. ML Duke To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Dec 21 09:55:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA26065 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:55:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from b.mx.crl.com (bmx.crl.com [165.113.1.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA26060 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:55:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anarchy@crl.com) Received: from crl.crl.com (crl.com [165.113.1.12]) by b.mx.crl.com (8.8.7/) via SMTP id JAA29632; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:55:23 -0800 (PST) env-from (anarchy@crl.com) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:55:22 -0800 (PST) From: Ben Manes To: E jose Matta cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X Windows In-Reply-To: <19981221164010.26720.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Does all FreeBSD os's have it? Well, FreeBSD can have it, but you don't have to. All BSDs can have it, such as NetBSD and OpenBSD. Linux can have it, Solaris (which, from my understanding used to be a BSD) can have it, etc. Its not required, and in many ways administration is hindered by a gui (M$). > Does X-Windows open all windows aplications or just some? No, most programs actually run at the command prompt. The reason for this is because you have a lot more options and its usually just plain better. Some applications such as Netscape are X-Windows, some are not.. - grab a book so you can understand the text life. > Can you please describe x-windows for me? X-Windows is a GUI built ontop of the kernal and the rest of the system. Its not like Windows where it is meant as the heart of the system, but is really there because GUIs are needed, to an extent. It still needs a lot of work, at least the XFree86, but there coming along nicely. Also, you wont see just a standard style interface, because its up to the user. The GUI can look like Windows 3.x, 9x/NT, MacOS, BeOS, or whatever else someone dreams up. Its nice like that, and most people seem to perfer KDE to the others. There's a lot more, such as multiple desktops, so grab a book (many free) and take a look. You can find "The Complete FreeBSD" on the cd, the "Absolute Beginner's Guide to FreeBSD", and "For People New to Both FreeBSD and UNIX" (aug, 1997). All are online and free, but I lost their URLs from a Windowz meltdown.. You can also find some UNIX bootks at MCP.com (they are usually the old release), and other faqs all over the net (ie, the handbook). Oh, and grab ghost-script/-view for the postscript books... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Dec 21 11:33:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA09674 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:33:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA09655 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:33:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id GAA02249; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 06:32:33 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19981222063229.15025@welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 06:32:29 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Ben Manes Cc: E jose Matta , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X Windows References: <19981221164010.26720.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Ben Manes on Mon, Dec 21, 1998 at 09:55:22AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Dec 21, 1998 at 09:55:22AM -0800, Ben Manes wrote: > > There's a lot more, such as multiple desktops, so grab a book (many free) > and take a look. You can find "The Complete FreeBSD" on the cd, the > "Absolute Beginner's Guide to FreeBSD", and "For People New to Both FreeBSD > and UNIX" (aug, 1997). All are online and free, but I lost their URLs It's much easier than that. You don't need their URLs. All of the basic useful stuff is listed on the newbies web page http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html (I hope that's right) and if anything important is not there, someone will ask me to put it on. Next update should be around the end of the month BTW. But it's easier than that because you don't need to know the URL for the newbies page. Just go to the FreeBSD site and you'll see a link to it. Can't remember FreeBSD's domain name to work out the URL for it's web site? No problem, you don't even need to remember that! Just wait for the next Friday/Saturday to roll around and read the "First Aid Kit" that comes to you through the freebsd-newbies list. Or look through your old mail to find the last copy you got. It's all in there. Don't know what day of the week it is? Type 'date' at the prompt. Don't know what the prompt is? Work through the tutorial "for people new to both freebsd and unix". The newbies page has a link to it. To find the newbies page... Oh, yeah :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Dec 21 15:42:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA12055 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 15:42:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from home.fiberia.com (home.fiberia.com [208.137.248.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12012 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 15:42:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from www@home.fiberia.com) Received: by home.fiberia.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA11326; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 16:42:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 16:42:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199812220042.QAA11326@home.fiberia.com> X-Fiberia-User: ufa X-Fiberia-Real-Address: kat@diaspro.com To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: happyadmin@ufa.hypermart.net Subject: MARRY CHRISTMAS & Happy New Year! Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ~ Ñ×ÀÑÒËÈÂÎÃÎ ÐÎÆÄÅÑÒÂÀ è ÍÎÂÎÃÎ ÃÎÄÀ! ~ ÑÄÅËÀÉÒÅ ÑÞÐÏÐÈÇ ÑÂÎÈÌ ÄÐÓÇÜßÌ! Ïîøëèòå Íîâîãîäíèå è Ðîæäåñòâåíñêèå Ïîñëàíèÿ ñ ìóçûêàëüíûì ñîïðîâîæäåíèåì, âîñïîëüçîâàâøèñü ÑËÓÆÁÎÉ ÂÈÐÒÓÀËÜÍÛÕ ÎÒÊÐÛÒÎÊ, àáñîëþòíî ÁÅÑÏËÀÒÍÎ !! --*( ÑËÓÆÁÀ ÂÈÐÒÓÀËÜÍÛÕ ÎÒÊÐÛÒÎÊ )*-- * http://ufa.hypermart.net * To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Dec 22 02:23:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA26288 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 02:23:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA26270 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 02:23:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id VAA04543; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:23:18 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19981222212314.53508@welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:23:14 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Newbies Showcase - send your URLs! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'll be updating the newbies project page next week http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html In the few months that this page has been going, there has been little response to the invitation to criticise, so I guess all newbies are blissfully happy with whatever I've done to it. There's a bit too much stuff for a single page already and we need somewhere to showcase the various examples of work in progress by newbies - web sites, documentation and so on - so that other newbies can support them, contribute to them, or steal ideas from them. What I'm planning is a separate web page, which explains that they're not finished work but opportunities to watch work in progress and maybe collaborate with other newbies. Of course this puts the spotlighted workers under some pressure to keep on working :-) I can host the extra page here while we decide if it's suitable for the FreeBSD site. http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/hard-yakka.html OK you newbies who are sweating tirelessly out there, come up for air for a sec. Does this sound like the approach you'd like to see or have I got it all wrong? Has anyone got any other ideas? Send me your URLs and a sentence or two describing what it is about. Documentation? Advocacy? A web page proposing something you'd like to work on with other newbies? If it's not safely free of errors and finished enough to be useful, say so and I can hang on to the info for the next update, probably a month later, and mention that it's coming. If you don't have a URL for what you're doing, just give me a description and your email address for fan mail. Malartre, are you gonna start the ball rolling or have you disappeared for the holidays? -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Dec 22 04:18:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA08461 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 04:18:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp.tierra.net (serv04.tierranet.com [209.75.4.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA08449 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 04:18:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dave@daves-place.com) Received: from tierranet.com (209.75.4.17) by smtp.tierra.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA00961 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 04:17:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from dont-worry- (sjts1-25.znet.net [207.167.85.25]) by tierranet.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA15520 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 04:17:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000701be2da4$cb4d9ba0$1955a7cf@dont-worry-> From: "David" To: Subject: Newbie Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 04:15:32 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE2D61.B7ED1C40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE2D61.B7ED1C40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can I Download and Install FreeBSD and Run it on my Windows98 System, or = will it cause problems, If not I would love to Install it and learn to = use it. Thank You =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Bismillah Ir Rahman Ir Rahim (In the Name of ALLAH the Beneficient Most = Merciful) =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE2D61.B7ED1C40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Can I Download = and Install=20 FreeBSD and Run it on my Windows98 System, or will it cause problems, If = not I=20 would love to Install it and learn to use it.
Thank = You
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Bismillah=20 Ir Rahman Ir Rahim (In the Name of ALLAH the Beneficient Most=20 Merciful)
          =   =20
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE2D61.B7ED1C40-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Dec 22 06:53:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA27027 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 06:53:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uhura.concentric.net (uhura.concentric.net [206.173.119.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA27000 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 06:53:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mlduke@newman.concentric.net) Received: from marconi.concentric.net (marconi [206.173.119.71]) by uhura.concentric.net (8.9.1a/(98/12/15 5.12)) id JAA07628; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:53:39 -0500 (EST) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from ts001d29.mer-id.concentric.net (ts001d29.mer-id.concentric.net [206.173.184.41]) by marconi.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id JAA10286; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:53:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 07:53:52 -0700 (MST) From: ML Duke X-Sender: mlduke@concentric.net To: David cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Newbie In-Reply-To: <000701be2da4$cb4d9ba0$1955a7cf@dont-worry-> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, David wrote: > Can I Download and Install FreeBSD and Run it on my Windows98 System, or will it cause problems, If not I would love to Install it and learn to use it. > Thank You In a word. No. The only "operating system" that runs on another operating system I can think of, just off hand, is windows, which essentially runs on dos. FreeBSD is a true, powerful and highly sophisticated operating system which allows the integrated operation of "programs" or "applications" or "binaries" such as XWindows which in turn allows the operation of graphical interface applications such as Netscape. ML Duke To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Dec 22 08:06:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA08142 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 08:06:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA08099 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 08:06:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de) Received: from caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de (wosch@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.12]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA07997; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 17:03:05 +0100 (MET) Received: (from wosch@localhost) by caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.9.1/8.9.0) id RAA02666; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 17:03:03 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981222170302.A2542@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 17:03:02 +0100 From: Wolfram Schneider To: Sue Blake , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Newbies Showcase - send your URLs! References: <19981222212314.53508@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In-Reply-To: <19981222212314.53508@welearn.com.au>; from Sue Blake on Tue, Dec 22, 1998 at 09:23:14PM +1100 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 1998-12-22 21:23:14 +1100, Sue Blake wrote: > I'll be updating the newbies project page next week > http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html > In the few months that this page has been going, there has been little > response to the invitation to criticise, so I guess all newbies are > blissfully happy with whatever I've done to it. http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html is in the Top 20 of the most requested HTML pages at wwww.freebsd.org See http://www.freebsd.org/statistic/freefall.html for details. -- Wolfram Schneider http://freebsd.org/~w/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Dec 22 11:37:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA14243 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:37:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from russian-caravan.cloud9.net (russian-caravan.cloud9.net [168.100.1.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA14168 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:36:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from on@cloud9.net) Received: from ill (ill.wpn.cloud9.net [168.100.1.68]) by russian-caravan.cloud9.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9526B763A6; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 14:36:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <009f01be2de1$dd29d3b0$440164a8@ill.cloud9.net> From: "MB" To: Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 14:32:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_009C_01BE2DB7.F44796B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_009C_01BE2DB7.F44796B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable auth 1b279ffc subscribe freebsd-newbies on@cloud9.net ------=_NextPart_000_009C_01BE2DB7.F44796B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
auth 1b279ffc subscribe freebsd-newbies on@cloud9.net
------=_NextPart_000_009C_01BE2DB7.F44796B0-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Dec 22 11:51:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA25237 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:51:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from inet.chip-web.com (c1003518-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [24.1.82.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA25131 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:51:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ludwigp@bigfoot.com) Received: (qmail 7098 invoked from network); 22 Dec 1998 19:51:00 -0000 Received: from speedy.chipweb.ml.org (HELO speedy) (172.16.1.1) by inet.chipweb.ml.org with SMTP; 22 Dec 1998 19:51:00 -0000 Message-Id: <4.1.19981222114808.00a3fca0@mail-r> X-Sender: ludwigp2@mail-r X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:49:46 -0800 To: ML Duke , David From: Ludwig Pummer Subject: Re: Newbie Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <000701be2da4$cb4d9ba0$1955a7cf@dont-worry-> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 06:53 AM 12/22/98 , ML Duke wrote: > > >On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, David wrote: > >> Can I Download and Install FreeBSD and Run it on my Windows98 System, >or will it cause problems, If not I would love to Install it and learn to >use it. >> Thank You > >In a word. No. The only "operating system" that runs on another operating >system I can think of, just off hand, is windows, which essentially runs >on dos. But FreeBSD can coexist with Windows 98. It can install a boot manager so that at every boot-up you can select which operating system you start. You will probably need to repartition your hard drive in order to make space for FreeBSD to install, since FreeBSD doesn't work from within a FAT partition. --Ludwig Pummer ( ludwigp@bigfoot.com ) ICQ UIN: 692441 ( ludwigp@email.com ) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Dec 22 12:05:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA02739 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:05:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from trickster.net (trickster.net [199.1.13.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA02689 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:05:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from travis@trickster.net) Received: from [209.154.112.102] (chi-qbu-nvn-vty102.as.wcom.net [209.154.112.102]) by trickster.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA02684; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 15:04:43 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199812222004.PAA02684@trickster.net> Subject: Re: Newbies Showcase - send your URLs! Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 14:16:10 -0500 x-sender: travis@wildebeest.trickster.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Travis Ruthenburg To: "Sue Blake" cc: "freebsd-newbies" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 12/22/98 5:23 AM, Sue Blake (sue@welearn.com.au) uttered: >Send me your URLs and a sentence or two describing what it is about. >Documentation? Advocacy? A web page proposing something you'd like to >work on with other newbies? If it's not safely free of errors and >finished enough to be useful, say so and I can hang on to the info for >the next update, probably a month later, and mention that it's coming. >If you don't have a URL for what you're doing, just give me a >description and your email address for fan mail. I'd really like to see listed. It's a step by step tutorial on how to restrict mail relaying written specifically for FreeBSD. Aside from that, the page looks very resourcefull. Travis Ruthenburg bjork bjork bjork travis@trickster.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Dec 22 18:29:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA10239 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 18:29:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from random.static.greatland.net (random.static.greatland.net [209.112.190.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA10231 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 18:29:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from random@random.static.greatland.net) Received: from localhost (random@localhost) by random.static.greatland.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA01487; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 17:28:48 -0900 (AKST) (envelope-from random@random.static.greatland.net) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 17:28:47 -0900 (AKST) From: Bring out The Devil-bring out The God To: Sue Blake cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Newbies Showcase - send your URLs! In-Reply-To: <19981222212314.53508@welearn.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'd be interested in contributing to such a site; but I have *everything* to learn about HTML. The only project I'm working on at the moment is a personal project to configure my system...if there's anything you want help w/, email me here or at random@greatland.net, and if it's something I know anything about or am studying (right now I'm reading all I can about C) I'd be very happy to contribute. If nothing else; I'd be very happy to see how the page unfolds. :) Thanks. -Random On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, Sue Blake wrote: > I'll be updating the newbies project page next week > http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html > In the few months that this page has been going, there has been little > response to the invitation to criticise, so I guess all newbies are > blissfully happy with whatever I've done to it. > > There's a bit too much stuff for a single page already and we need > somewhere to showcase the various examples of work in progress by > newbies - web sites, documentation and so on - so that other newbies > can support them, contribute to them, or steal ideas from them. > > What I'm planning is a separate web page, which explains that > they're not finished work but opportunities to watch work in progress > and maybe collaborate with other newbies. Of course this puts the > spotlighted workers under some pressure to keep on working :-) I can > host the extra page here while we decide if it's suitable for the > FreeBSD site. http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/hard-yakka.html > > OK you newbies who are sweating tirelessly out there, come up for air > for a sec. Does this sound like the approach you'd like to see or have > I got it all wrong? Has anyone got any other ideas? > > Send me your URLs and a sentence or two describing what it is about. > Documentation? Advocacy? A web page proposing something you'd like to > work on with other newbies? If it's not safely free of errors and > finished enough to be useful, say so and I can hang on to the info for > the next update, probably a month later, and mention that it's coming. > If you don't have a URL for what you're doing, just give me a > description and your email address for fan mail. > > Malartre, are you gonna start the ball rolling or have you disappeared > for the holidays? > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Dec 24 13:31:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22367 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:31:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (lsmls02.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA22362 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:31:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gummibear@we.mediaone.net) From: gummibear@we.mediaone.net Received: from ale (we-24-130-60-145.we.mediaone.net [24.130.60.145]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA26553 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:31:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981224133345.006990d4@we.mediaone.net> X-Sender: gummibear@we.mediaone.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:33:45 -0800 To: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Unix Desktop Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've been working with Unix for about a Year (or was it 2 years, I forget). Actually, it may have been longer than that but I really wasn't productive with Unix so I don't count that time. This posting/email is basically about all my gripes concerning the X Desktop. Christmas just puts me in a bad mood, I'm usually not a complainer. But... *shrug* Anyways, I still have alot to learn about the system and how it works. Mostly I think I should really get into C programming to fully understand how it functions internally. I mostly use my system as a Desktop alternative to Windows 95. Windows 95 may have alot of internal problems and stability problems, but the interface really isn't that bad. Everything seems to look and work well together, such as icons, menus, toolbars that dock along the side, etc. As far as appearance goes, it all seems to lookg good (although sometimes it doesn't work so great). On the other hand, on my X desktop I've used KDE and WindowMaker and both are pretty nice. Window Maker has the cool Next-like look and feel. It looks nice and keeps it's Unix attitude. It also doesn't take a whole lot of memory to run, which is really nice!! KDE makes the system usable to MS Windows users, and it all keeps a good level of interface standardization (ala KDE style) and it has alot of neat applications of it's own. It seems to look like OS/2, Windows 95, and MacOS all roled into one. Only problem, it's a resource hog. Lately, I have basically evaluating the X Windows system, and I just can't figure out why it hasn't been made any easier for average users. I can't figure out why antialiased fonts (such as true type fonts) haven't been made the standard. I can't figure out why there hasn't been a solution to the problem of not having a standardized Interface (or a few standardized interfaces to choose from when developing applications or whatever - choice isn't a bad thing). I can't figure out why the standard X libraries and widget set hasn't been given the 90's look and feel (ala qt libraries). I guess my biggest gripe is the font thing, because my girlffried keeps bitching about it. She does alot of work in photoshop using true type fonts. I know there are true type font servers for X windows, but she like the ability to easily install and delete fonts with a click of a mouse button and having the system do it's magic automatically. And that's what keeps me from getting Windows 95 once and for all. Well actually that's one reason I don't get rid of windows. She also likes AOL Instant Messager so she can keep in contact with her family. The tcl version seems to need some work. I don't know anything about the java version to evaluate it. I'm just wondering is there an alternative to X Windows? Has another Windowing system been developed for Unix? I was just curious. *I* can put up with X Windows and stuff, but what about those users that don't have the time to learn it all and/or have the patience to battle with it. I remember the days that I used to battle with .fvwmrc and .steprc. Everytime I downloaded and installed a new application I had to edit the file to add an icon or whatever. Then I get bored of my set up and rearrage the whole thing. heh heh But that's how I had my fun I guess. I've been trying to figure out how I can speed up my programming learning process to see if I can take AfterStep 1.0 and make it more modular with all sorts of little applicatios to change it's appearance and how it works. I guess a little project to get me into learning how to do it all, I guess. I have also been wondering if a java based window manager can be created for X Windows. That would be interesting I think, although I'll have to learn how to program in Java. heh Lot's to learn.!! Okay, I guess I'm done with all my whining. Like I said, I'm usually not like this...Christmas just puts me in a bad mood. :/ heh heh Maybe I should piss off my gf and totally remove Win95...how's that sound? ;) Well talk to you all later, Joey a.k.a. Scrooge a.k.a. The Grinch etc To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Dec 24 13:31:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22484 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:31:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from www0j.netaddress.usa.net (www0j.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA22442 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:31:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eugene.k@lycosmail.com) From: eugene.k@lycosmail.com Received: from oleg-tchetchel by www0j.netaddress.usa.net (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id VAA11148; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 21:31:21 GMT Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 21:31:21 GMT To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Holiday Greetings ! Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org One of the Christmas miracles: http://www3.mcps.k12.md.us/users/rsfay/magic/index.html Eugene K. http://www.nisco.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Dec 24 15:21:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA03765 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 15:21:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ritchie.loop.com (ritchie-inet.loop.com [207.211.60.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA03760 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 15:21:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from icimjs@loop.com) Received: from knobel (p15.hwts15.loop.net [207.211.62.240]) by ritchie.loop.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA20546 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 15:14:36 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981224151919.008493b0@pop.loop.com> X-Sender: icimjs@pop.loop.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 15:19:19 -0800 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Elan Subject: pthread Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, FreeBSD 3.0: QUESTION: Where in the source tree will I find the group of files that implement POSIX threads compatibility? Background: When compiling with the pthread option (gcc -pthread) gcc happily accepts calls to pthread_attr_getscope but complains when pthread_attr_setscope is used. History: Searching the Bug Reports Repository, it was reported as a bug in July that pthread_attr_setscope was not implemented. Perhaps I can repair the problem by consulting with the Linux POSIX threads compatibility library (setscope and getscope are each three-liners). QUESTION: Where in the source tree will I find the group of files that implement POSIX threads compatibility? TIA Elan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Dec 24 15:55:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA07362 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 15:55:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from b.mx.crl.com (bmx.crl.com [165.113.1.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA07356 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 15:55:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anarchy@crl.com) Received: from crl.crl.com (crl.com [165.113.1.12]) by b.mx.crl.com (8.8.7/) via SMTP id PAA20065; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 15:55:13 -0800 (PST) env-from (anarchy@crl.com) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 15:55:12 -0800 (PST) From: Ben Manes To: gummibear@we.mediaone.net cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Unix Desktop In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981224133345.006990d4@we.mediaone.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Lately, I have basically evaluating the X Windows system, and I just can't > figure out why it hasn't been made any easier for average users. I can't > figure out why antialiased fonts (such as true type fonts) haven't been > made the standard. I can't figure out why there hasn't been a solution to > the problem of not having a standardized Interface (or a few standardized > interfaces to choose from when developing applications or whatever - choice > isn't a bad thing). I can't figure out why the standard X libraries and > widget set hasn't been given the 90's look and feel (ala qt libraries). I'd guess that all of that can't be standardized because UNIX is a mob of different standards. If some group says here's the standard, do you really expect Sun, HP, SCO, DEC, BSDs, Linux(es), etc. to all just jump in and embrace it? The momentum behind Linux is against standardizing, because to many that's what they conceve windows to be. Once you standardize, you reduce choice, power, and expandability for greater functionality. UNIX is slowly evolving in functionality.. but it has a ways to go and I'd rather developers find ways to make it more user friendly so any desktop enviroment can be used, but all efficently. Its harder, but doesn't hinder progress (ie. windows is built on dos to provide functionality, and therefor both 9x and NT (which has to be compatable with 9x) are hindered). > Well actually that's one reason I don't get rid of windows. She also likes > AOL Instant Messager so she can keep in contact with her family. The tcl > version seems to need some work. I don't know anything about the java > version to evaluate it. Tell her to switch to ICQ. Aol bought them, and will likely replace instant messanger sooner or later. Also, ICQ is working on a X-windows version (a friend is on a command-line version), so watch for it... ICQ also has more features.. > I'm just wondering is there an alternative to X Windows? Has another I think X Windows is just an artifical name for the UNIX guis. Solaris and BSD have different programming for their GUIs, but there both X and run ontop of the UNIX kernals. > I have also been wondering if a java based window manager can be created Java is slow, and since X windows is meant as for the person siting at the workstation, its pointless writing it (or a windows manager) in a language meant for streamlining the data through a network. C++ is far faster and so it makes more sense.. and picoJava (a Sun java accelerator chip) was killed and may one day be integrated into systems, but those are set-top boxes, handhelds, etc. Oh, and about being hating christmass.. I know the feeling.. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Dec 24 16:01:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA08176 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:01:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA08091 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:01:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id LAA12892; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 11:00:56 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19981225110052.43831@welearn.com.au> Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 11:00:52 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Elan Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pthread References: <3.0.5.32.19981224151919.008493b0@pop.loop.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981224151919.008493b0@pop.loop.com>; from Elan on Thu, Dec 24, 1998 at 03:19:19PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Dec 24, 1998 at 03:19:19PM -0800, Elan wrote: > Hi, > > FreeBSD 3.0: > QUESTION: Where in the source tree will I find the group of files that > implement POSIX threads compatibility? > > Background: > When compiling with the pthread option (gcc -pthread) gcc happily accepts > calls to Jeeeez... I'm glad I'm not on the freebsd-hard-stuff mailing list :-) Elan, if you send your question to freebsd-questions@freebsd.org more than a thousand people will help you and be keen to see the answer. That's the place for all questions, easy or hard. Happy festivities! -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Dec 24 16:26:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA11800 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:26:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dsinw.com (dsinw.com [207.149.40.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA11795 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:26:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hamellr@dsinw.com) Received: (from hamellr@localhost) by dsinw.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id QAA14431; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:23:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:23:41 -0800 (PST) From: rick hamell To: gummibear@we.mediaone.net cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Unix Desktop In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981224133345.006990d4@we.mediaone.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Lately, I have basically evaluating the X Windows system, and I just can't > figure out why it hasn't been made any easier for average users. I can't > figure out why antialiased fonts (such as true type fonts) haven't been > made the standard. I can't figure out why there hasn't been a solution to > the problem of not having a standardized Interface (or a few standardized > interfaces to choose from when developing applications or whatever - choice > isn't a bad thing). I can't figure out why the standard X libraries and > widget set hasn't been given the 90's look and feel (ala qt libraries). There is a possiblity of another Windowing system. BUT, something you're over looking is that there are several more Window Managers then you've tried. FVMN, Enlightenment, Afterstep. One of them may do what you want. Supposedly Enlightenment is pretty configurable. Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Dec 24 16:44:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA13292 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:44:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (lsmls02.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA13287 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:44:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gummibear@we.mediaone.net) From: gummibear@we.mediaone.net Received: from ale (we-24-130-60-145.we.mediaone.net [24.130.60.145]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA13891; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:44:30 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981224164708.006a0228@we.mediaone.net> X-Sender: gummibear@we.mediaone.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:47:08 -0800 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Unix Desktop Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19981224133345.006990d4@we.mediaone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:23 PM 12/24/98 -0800, rick hamell wrote: > >> Lately, I have basically evaluating the X Windows system, and I just can't >> figure out why it hasn't been made any easier for average users. I can't >> figure out why antialiased fonts (such as true type fonts) haven't been >> made the standard. I can't figure out why there hasn't been a solution to >> the problem of not having a standardized Interface (or a few standardized >> interfaces to choose from when developing applications or whatever - choice >> isn't a bad thing). I can't figure out why the standard X libraries and >> widget set hasn't been given the 90's look and feel (ala qt libraries). > > There is a possiblity of another Windowing system. BUT, something >you're over looking is that there are several more Window Managers then >you've tried. FVMN, Enlightenment, Afterstep. One of them may do what you >want. Supposedly Enlightenment is pretty configurable. > > Rick > I was taking a look at the QNX system and they have their own "microGUI" as they called it. I downloaded and installed their demo (which fits and runs off a disk) that showed off their gui, webserver, file manager, and web browser. Pretty neat and fast. I wonder if it can be ported to other systems other than QNX. As far as the window managers go, as I said I've played with .fwmrc's and .steprc's so basically I've ran both (FVWM 1.34 and FVWM 2.0.46). I've also tried AfterStep 1.4 and I think I took a look at AfterStep 1.5 as well. I don't like where afterstep is going (heck actually I'm not even sure what direction they're leading to). I haven't tried Enlightenment. It looks pretty trippy though. Like a window manager on drugs. heh heh :) I do like the NextStep look, and would love a NextStep like *enviroment* -- something like KDE but with the NextStep look and feel. Something with a small footprint, but with plenty of helper apps to get the job done. OH! And I love the dock apps but I've noticed that alot of them are written with only Linux in mind which bums me out. I wish more of those dock apps were ported over to BSD form (including the network monitor apps and stuff like that). Sad thing is that I've never seen a real NextStep machine, although I'd love to check one out. Are they still produced? I've read some old books on NextStep and I read that the Mach kernel was written to be BSD4.3 compatible. Well shit, if they want to be like BSD why not have Steve Jobs take his new G3 Macintosh and build a new and improved NextStep on that using a real BSD kernel. :) That is of course if they don't make NextStep stuff anymore. Ah well, I'm gonna go mope around some more. Christmas...Bah...Humbug! Joey -- The Grinch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Dec 24 16:49:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA13930 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:49:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (lsmls02.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA13925 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:49:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gummibear@we.mediaone.net) From: gummibear@we.mediaone.net Received: from ale (we-24-130-60-145.we.mediaone.net [24.130.60.145]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA14208 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:49:22 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981224165200.006998c8@we.mediaone.net> X-Sender: gummibear@we.mediaone.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:52:00 -0800 To: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Unix Desktop In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19981224133345.006990d4@we.mediaone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 03:55 PM 12/24/98 -0800, Ben Manes wrote: > >> Lately, I have basically evaluating the X Windows system, and I just can't >> figure out why it hasn't been made any easier for average users. I can't >> figure out why antialiased fonts (such as true type fonts) haven't been >> made the standard. I can't figure out why there hasn't been a solution to >> the problem of not having a standardized Interface (or a few standardized >> interfaces to choose from when developing applications or whatever - choice >> isn't a bad thing). I can't figure out why the standard X libraries and >> widget set hasn't been given the 90's look and feel (ala qt libraries). > >I'd guess that all of that can't be standardized because UNIX is a mob of >different standards. If some group says here's the standard, do you >really expect Sun, HP, SCO, DEC, BSDs, Linux(es), etc. to all just jump >in and embrace it? The momentum behind Linux is against standardizing, >because to many that's what they conceve windows to be. Once you >standardize, you reduce choice, power, and expandability for greater >functionality. UNIX is slowly evolving in functionality.. but it has a >ways to go and I'd rather developers find ways to make it more user >friendly so any desktop enviroment can be used, but all efficently. Its >harder, but doesn't hinder progress (ie. windows is built on dos to >provide functionality, and therefor both 9x and NT (which has to be >compatable with 9x) are hindered). > >> Well actually that's one reason I don't get rid of windows. She also likes >> AOL Instant Messager so she can keep in contact with her family. The tcl >> version seems to need some work. I don't know anything about the java >> version to evaluate it. > >Tell her to switch to ICQ. Aol bought them, and will likely replace >instant messanger sooner or later. Also, ICQ is working on a X-windows >version (a friend is on a command-line version), so watch for it... ICQ >also has more features.. > But then practically her whole family will have to switch to ICQ right? I mean, ICQ and Instant Messanger are totally different things right? >> I'm just wondering is there an alternative to X Windows? Has another > >I think X Windows is just an artifical name for the UNIX guis. Solaris >and BSD have different programming for their GUIs, but there both X and >run ontop of the UNIX kernals. Solaris has the OpenWindows thing right? > >> I have also been wondering if a java based window manager can be created > >Java is slow, and since X windows is meant as for the person siting at >the workstation, its pointless writing it (or a windows manager) in a >language meant for streamlining the data through a network. C++ is far >faster and so it makes more sense.. and picoJava (a Sun java accelerator >chip) was killed and may one day be integrated into systems, but those >are set-top boxes, handhelds, etc. I see. I just thought that maybe it would be easier to write in java because it comes with widgets and stuff. Although, couldn't java be comipiled in a way that it runs natively on say an Intel achitecture? > >Oh, and about being hating christmass.. I know the feeling.. > heheh Christmas....Bah...Humbug! Joey -- The Grinch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Dec 24 18:49:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA23094 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 18:49:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from qikus.speednet.com.au (qikus.speednet.com.au [202.135.188.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA23089 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 18:49:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shuzza@qd.com.au) Received: from benoze (cyber-6.speednet.com.au [202.135.188.55]) by qikus.speednet.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA13526; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 13:49:17 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19981225134447.007ce250@qd.com.au> X-Sender: shuzza@qd.com.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 13:44:47 +1100 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: The Shuzza Man Subject: Re: Unix Desktop Cc: gummibear@we.mediaone.net In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981224133345.006990d4@we.mediaone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 13:33 24/12/98 -0800, you wrote: >Anyways, I still have alot to learn about the system and how it works. >Mostly I think I should really get into C programming to fully understand >how it functions internally. Very good idea. I think the computer industry has been set back by the need to build totally user friendly operating systems and applications that hopefully run without the user knowing a thing about whats going on. The beauty of Freebsd is that you have the opportunity to snoop around in the source code if you get a problem instead of having to call a tech support number and have them tell you to reinstall! Ive had Windows apps crash on me, reinstalled them and they work again for a while. This doesn't tend to happen with FreeBSD. If something crashes, it does it for a good reason and it needs to be fixed! If you're going to use an operating system like FreeBSD, you are selling yourself short by not knowing how to look at the code. > >I mostly use my system as a Desktop alternative to Windows 95. Windows 95 >may have alot of internal problems and stability problems, but the >interface really isn't that bad. Everything seems to look and work well >together, such as icons, menus, toolbars that dock along the side, etc. As >far as appearance goes, it all seems to lookg good (although sometimes it >doesn't work so great). > This goes back to the industries current unspoken rule: If you can't make it good, at least make it look good. Sure it's a totally unreliable, unsecure piece of junk but hey look at all the pretty buttons. Good looks don't make the O/S. >On the other hand, on my X desktop I've used KDE and WindowMaker and both >are pretty nice. Window Maker has the cool Next-like look and feel. It >looks nice and keeps it's Unix attitude. It also doesn't take a whole lot >of memory to run, which is really nice!! KDE makes the system usable to MS >Windows users, and it all keeps a good level of interface standardization >(ala KDE style) and it has alot of neat applications of it's own. It seems >to look like OS/2, Windows 95, and MacOS all roled into one. Only problem, >it's a resource hog. > >Lately, I have basically evaluating the X Windows system, and I just can't >figure out why it hasn't been made any easier for average users. I can't >figure out why antialiased fonts (such as true type fonts) haven't been >made the standard. I can't figure out why there hasn't been a solution to >the problem of not having a standardized Interface (or a few standardized >interfaces to choose from when developing applications or whatever - choice >isn't a bad thing). I can't figure out why the standard X libraries and >widget set hasn't been given the 90's look and feel (ala qt libraries). Xfree86 is free. A lot of hard working people put a lot of hours into it because they believe in what they are doing. The windows gui is built to offer no customization so hopefully stupid people won't break it. It just doesn't work that way. There are several Commercial X servers available that have theyre own customization built in so you don't have to do anything. I Think you'll find as a general rule, anything in Freebsd tends to be hard at first but once you have a go, read some documentation and fool around with it, It becomes a lot easier to work with than windows based stuff. This is because you REALLY know whats going on. You have a full grasp of the situation rather than just fumbling with a few menus and buttons. >I guess my biggest gripe is the font thing, because my girlffried keeps >bitching about it. She does alot of work in photoshop using true type >fonts. I know there are true type font servers for X windows, but she like >the ability to easily install and delete fonts with a click of a mouse >button and having the system do it's magic automatically. And that's what >keeps me from getting Windows 95 once and for all. You have to Remember FreeBSD is the best Network Operating system available today. It's not strictly designed to be a desktop but this doesn't mean that it can't be used for that purpose! It is incredibly customizable and it's this flexibility that makes it great. I dont think drag 'n' drop fonts are a huge concern. Read some old mail from the archive, check out some documentation and you may find it can do a lot more than you expected. >Well actually that's one reason I don't get rid of windows. She also likes >AOL Instant Messager so she can keep in contact with her family. The tcl >version seems to need some work. I don't know anything about the java >version to evaluate it. Really? I found it very very easy to install and use. What sort of problems did you have? Later! Ben Shurey (Superguy) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Dec 24 20:44:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA01018 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 20:44:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (lsmls02.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA01009 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 20:44:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gummibear@we.mediaone.net) From: gummibear@we.mediaone.net Received: from ale (we-24-130-60-145.we.mediaone.net [24.130.60.145]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA07968 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 20:44:21 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981224204654.0069def4@we.mediaone.net> X-Sender: gummibear@we.mediaone.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 20:46:54 -0800 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Unix Desktop In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19981225134447.007ce250@qd.com.au> References: <3.0.1.32.19981224133345.006990d4@we.mediaone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:44 PM 12/25/98 +1100, The Shuzza Man wrote: >At 13:33 24/12/98 -0800, you wrote: > > >>Anyways, I still have alot to learn about the system and how it works. >>Mostly I think I should really get into C programming to fully understand >>how it functions internally. >Very good idea. I think the computer industry has been set back by the need >to build totally user friendly operating systems and applications that >hopefully run without the user knowing a thing about whats going on. The >beauty of Freebsd is that you have the opportunity to snoop around in the >source code if you get a problem instead of having to call a tech support >number and have them tell you to reinstall! Ive had Windows apps crash on >me, reinstalled them and they work again for a while. This doesn't tend to >happen with FreeBSD. If something crashes, it does it for a good reason and >it needs to be fixed! >If you're going to use an operating system like FreeBSD, you are selling >yourself short by not knowing how to look at the code. Well I just got done with a C programming class at the local community college but I really don't feel like I learned anything. I got excellent scores on my exams, but I still don't feel like a guru yet. Besides, the instructor hardly had any homework for us to do, and it was mostly DOS based C programming which really sucked. > >> >>I mostly use my system as a Desktop alternative to Windows 95. Windows 95 >>may have alot of internal problems and stability problems, but the >>interface really isn't that bad. Everything seems to look and work well >>together, such as icons, menus, toolbars that dock along the side, etc. As >>far as appearance goes, it all seems to lookg good (although sometimes it >>doesn't work so great). >> >This goes back to the industries current unspoken rule: If you can't make >it good, at least make it look good. Sure it's a totally unreliable, >unsecure piece of junk but hey look at all the pretty buttons. Good looks >don't make the O/S. > Well, let's make a new rule stating: Make the OS look GREAT and work BETTER than it looks! :) How's that for an idea? > >>On the other hand, on my X desktop I've used KDE and WindowMaker and both >>are pretty nice. Window Maker has the cool Next-like look and feel. It >>looks nice and keeps it's Unix attitude. It also doesn't take a whole lot >>of memory to run, which is really nice!! KDE makes the system usable to MS >>Windows users, and it all keeps a good level of interface standardization >>(ala KDE style) and it has alot of neat applications of it's own. It seems >>to look like OS/2, Windows 95, and MacOS all roled into one. Only problem, >>it's a resource hog. >> >>Lately, I have basically evaluating the X Windows system, and I just can't >>figure out why it hasn't been made any easier for average users. I can't >>figure out why antialiased fonts (such as true type fonts) haven't been >>made the standard. I can't figure out why there hasn't been a solution to >>the problem of not having a standardized Interface (or a few standardized >>interfaces to choose from when developing applications or whatever - choice >>isn't a bad thing). I can't figure out why the standard X libraries and >>widget set hasn't been given the 90's look and feel (ala qt libraries). >Xfree86 is free. >A lot of hard working people put a lot of hours into it because they >believe in what they are doing. The windows gui is built to offer no >customization so hopefully stupid people won't break it. It just doesn't >work that way. There are several Commercial X servers available that have >theyre own customization built in so you don't have to do anything. I Think >you'll find as a general rule, anything in Freebsd tends to be hard at >first but once you have a go, read some documentation and fool around with >it, It becomes a lot easier to work with than windows based stuff. This is >because you REALLY know whats going on. You have a full grasp of the >situation rather than just fumbling with a few menus and buttons. > Customization is great! I like playing with settings and all, but for a long time I didn't mess with the default setting in KDE because it all worked how I needed it to work, and more importantly, it worked how I expected it to work. Then I got bored with how it looked and changed it around a little but nothing dramatic. >>I guess my biggest gripe is the font thing, because my girlffried keeps >>bitching about it. She does alot of work in photoshop using true type >>fonts. I know there are true type font servers for X windows, but she like >>the ability to easily install and delete fonts with a click of a mouse >>button and having the system do it's magic automatically. And that's what >>keeps me from getting Windows 95 once and for all. > >You have to Remember FreeBSD is the best Network Operating system available >today. >It's not strictly designed to be a desktop but this doesn't mean that it >can't be used for that purpose! It is incredibly customizable and it's this >flexibility that makes it great. >I dont think drag 'n' drop fonts are a huge concern. Read some old mail >from the archive, check out some documentation and you may find it can do a >lot more than you expected. I have to agree....FreeBSD is great. I really like it better than Linux (and Windows 3.x/95 for that matter), although I wished it has as much support as Linux and Windows. Then that would rule! > >>Well actually that's one reason I don't get rid of windows. She also likes >>AOL Instant Messager so she can keep in contact with her family. The tcl >>version seems to need some work. I don't know anything about the java >>version to evaluate it. > >Really? >I found it very very easy to install and use. >What sort of problems did you have? > I don't quite remember, but I think it crashed a couple of times or it did something funny. I'm not sure what version it was that I was playing with. I really wasn't paying attention since it wasn't meant for my personal use. :/ Joey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Dec 24 22:00:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA08611 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 22:00:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.shadow.net ([204.177.71.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA08604 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 22:00:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vladik@shadow.net) Received: from ararat.mygus.com (root@ppp-185.shadow.net [207.17.58.205]) by mail.shadow.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA24079 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 01:09:10 -0500 (EST) Received: by shadow.net via sendmail from stdin id (Debian Smail3.2.0.102) for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 01:14:46 -0500 (EST) From: Vladik MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 01:14:45 -0500 (EST) To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Unix Desktop In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981224164708.006a0228@we.mediaone.net> References: <3.0.1.32.19981224133345.006990d4@we.mediaone.net> <3.0.1.32.19981224164708.006a0228@we.mediaone.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <13955.10851.337409.38369@ararat.mygus.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org gummibear@we.mediaone.net writes: > At 04:23 PM 12/24/98 -0800, rick hamell wrote: > > > >> Lately, I have basically evaluating the X Windows system, and I just can't > >> figure out why it hasn't been made any easier for average users. I can't > >> figure out why antialiased fonts (such as true type fonts) haven't been > >> made the standard. I can't figure out why there hasn't been a solution to > >> the problem of not having a standardized Interface (or a few standardized > >> interfaces to choose from when developing applications or whatever - choice > >> isn't a bad thing). I can't figure out why the standard X libraries and > >> widget set hasn't been given the 90's look and feel (ala qt libraries). > > > > There is a possiblity of another Windowing system. BUT, something > >you're over looking is that there are several more Window Managers then > >you've tried. FVMN, Enlightenment, Afterstep. One of them may do what you > >want. Supposedly Enlightenment is pretty configurable. > > > > Rick > > I am new to FreeBSD, however I have been Linux for sometime, specifically debian distribution. Every time I install a package (a program or set of programs) it automatically updates the configuration files for all currently installed window managers. And if a particular user does not explicitly override the system wide config files for a particular window manager -- he/she automatically sees the new things on his/her menu. So I never have to edit any .rc files. I also assumed that it is the same way on FreeBsd -- but I guess not (I did not install X yet). Also when I install icewm or window maker (thouse are the 2 I use), they come prepackaged with bunch of Different configurations, so from the menu I can choose various backgrounds/menu bar styles/etc without even knowing anything about RC files. The things that are still difficult with linux (at least for me) are setting up Internet dial-up, Xemacs (to read the news groups and mails)/Fonts for various programs. Basically I am trying to find programs/packages that allow me to configure that stuff without knowing anything about the config files, all GUI driven wizard, that set the whole system up. I think a good packagin system together with programs like "dofile generators" will do the job eventually. Overall if FreeBSD does not have that type of packaging system -- it make sense to come up with it (or re-use Debian) because people like me (and I guess the original poster) will find it a lot easier to use. Happy holidays, Vladislav To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Dec 24 22:33:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA11173 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 22:33:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dsinw.com (dsinw.com [207.149.40.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA11168 for ; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 22:33:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hamellr@dsinw.com) Received: (from hamellr@localhost) by dsinw.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id WAA19278; Thu, 24 Dec 1998 22:31:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 22:31:09 -0800 (PST) From: rick hamell cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Unix Desktop In-Reply-To: <13955.10851.337409.38369@ararat.mygus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Every time I install a package (a program or set of programs) it > automatically updates the configuration files for all currently > installed window managers. And if a particular user does not > explicitly override the system wide config files for a particular > window manager -- he/she automatically sees the new things on > his/her menu. So I never have to edit any .rc files. We (as in the FreeBSD community) really need some enterprising newbie to do stuff like this. FreeBSD is a great product, the install goes pretty smoothly. But, that is only if you have the approved hardware, and everything is setup right. My personal goal is to get to the point that I can help do stuff like this. The Core Team members do a great job, but they need to keep their attention on the product itself, upgrading drivers, adding functionality to the system, etc. Not doing what really amounts to scuttle work. :( Perhaps someone who is up on this type of stuff can write something up that explains how to customize the system with a focus on newbies. Adding it on Sue's newbie page would be excellent and appropriate. Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Dec 25 10:06:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA24235 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 10:06:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (lsmls02.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24230 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 10:06:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gummibear@mediaone.net) Received: from mediaone.net (we-24-130-60-145.we.mediaone.net [24.130.60.145]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA17481 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 10:05:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3683D49B.A3A79364@mediaone.net> Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 10:08:28 -0800 From: Joey Garcia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Unix Desktop References: <3.0.1.32.19981224133345.006990d4@we.mediaone.net> <3.0.1.32.19981224164708.006a0228@we.mediaone.net> <13955.10851.337409.38369@ararat.mygus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Vladik wrote: > gummibear@we.mediaone.net writes: > > At 04:23 PM 12/24/98 -0800, rick hamell wrote: > > > > > >> Lately, I have basically evaluating the X Windows system, and I just can't > > >> figure out why it hasn't been made any easier for average users. I can't > > >> figure out why antialiased fonts (such as true type fonts) haven't been > > >> made the standard. I can't figure out why there hasn't been a solution to > > >> the problem of not having a standardized Interface (or a few standardized > > >> interfaces to choose from when developing applications or whatever - choice > > >> isn't a bad thing). I can't figure out why the standard X libraries and > > >> widget set hasn't been given the 90's look and feel (ala qt libraries). > > > > > > There is a possiblity of another Windowing system. BUT, something > > >you're over looking is that there are several more Window Managers then > > >you've tried. FVMN, Enlightenment, Afterstep. One of them may do what you > > >want. Supposedly Enlightenment is pretty configurable. > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > > The things that are still difficult with linux (at least for me) > are setting up Internet dial-up, Xemacs (to read the news groups and > mails)/Fonts for various programs. > Basically I am trying to find programs/packages that allow > me to configure that stuff without knowing anything about the config > files, all GUI driven wizard, that set the whole system up. > I think a good packagin system together with programs like "dofile > generators" will do the job eventually. Yeah, setting up dial-up ppp stuff isn't the most easiest thing to do, but there are scripts out there that help you do this. I have been playing around with perl for quite sometime and I think that maybe I have enough knowledge in C programming to come up with a binary (just because I like binaries) to set up the ppp stuff. Pppd frontends are pretty kewl too. When I used to use Linux I used kppp which was great. The setup wasn't so easy to figure out, but once you figure it out it's basically point and click. With FreeBSD I just setup the ppp stuff manually using the Handbook. It wasn't that hard, but I guess that all varies between users systems and stuff like that. I'm not a pro with XEmacs so I can't help you there. I'm stil trying to figure out what it all does, but I like the color coding. :) I've seen a "Dot File Generator" somewhere on the internet where modules could be added in order to setup different dot files. Although, I forgot where it's at. Anyone know? Although, it seems like most window managers and stuff come with their own configuration software now a days. > Happy holidays, > Vladislav -- =============================================== Joseph Garcia gummibear@mediaone.net Downey, CA =============================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Dec 25 10:22:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA25452 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 10:22:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (lsmls02.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA25447 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 10:22:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gummibear@mediaone.net) Received: from mediaone.net (we-24-130-60-145.we.mediaone.net [24.130.60.145]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA21520 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 10:22:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3683D878.194A14ED@mediaone.net> Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 10:24:57 -0800 From: Joey Garcia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Unix Desktop References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org rick hamell wrote: > > Every time I install a package (a program or set of programs) it > > automatically updates the configuration files for all currently > > installed window managers. And if a particular user does not > > explicitly override the system wide config files for a particular > > window manager -- he/she automatically sees the new things on > > his/her menu. So I never have to edit any .rc files. > > We (as in the FreeBSD community) really need some enterprising > newbie to do stuff like this. FreeBSD is a great product, the install > goes pretty smoothly. But, that is only if you have the approved > hardware, and everything is setup right. My personal goal is to get to > the point that I can help do stuff like this. The Core Team members do a > great job, but they need to keep their attention on the product itself, > upgrading drivers, adding functionality to the system, etc. Not doing > what really amounts to scuttle work. :( > Perhaps someone who is up on this type of stuff can write > something up that explains how to customize the system with a focus on > newbies. Adding it on Sue's newbie page would be excellent and appropriate. > > Rick I've thought about writing a diary about my FreeBSD system and how I set it up. Although, it's kind of hard to document every little thing I do I guess. I guess the first thing one should do when installing a FreeBSD system is know what packages to add. I remember when I first installed unix on my pc I didn't know what all these software packages and the discriptions weren't good enough for me at that time. Maybe there should be a recommended software guide for newbies somewhere. Maybe in two versions, one for terminal based applications and one for X based applications. And screen shots of these recommended applications would be a good thing. So people could check it out on a web site and see if it really is what they want to install. After the the initial software is loaded and stuff. I think setting up the shell is the next thing to do. I prefer the bash shell. Setting up the prompt and path and alternative pagers and stuff like that is important for a new user. After all that is done, using XF86Config to setup the X server stuff would be important. This would all be the initial customization and setup stuff. After the initial stuff is done, then the more advanced stuff could be done....like settingup a cached DNS for a standalone system (which is easy to do), probably configuring sendmail as well (although that's always been a mystery to me), and any other more advanced stuff. Rebuilding the Kernel perhaps?? Anyways, this all has to deal with customizing the system. Hell, I haven't even touched on setting up a window manager and the .xinirc. *sigh* Too much work!! Poor newbies (the ones that never even seen a unix prompt). It must really suck to be them. -- =============================================== Joseph Garcia gummibear@mediaone.net Downey, CA "If you're still in control, then you're not going fast enough!" =============================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Dec 25 11:33:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29168 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 11:33:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.shadow.net ([204.177.71.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA29162 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 11:33:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vladik@shadow.net) Received: from ararat.mygus.com (root@ppp-197.shadow.net [207.17.58.217]) by mail.shadow.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA23215 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 14:42:11 -0500 (EST) Received: by shadow.net via sendmail from stdin id (Debian Smail3.2.0.102) for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 14:47:50 -0500 (EST) From: Vladik MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 14:47:50 -0500 (EST) To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Unix Desktop In-Reply-To: <3683D49B.A3A79364@mediaone.net> References: <3.0.1.32.19981224133345.006990d4@we.mediaone.net> <3.0.1.32.19981224164708.006a0228@we.mediaone.net> <13955.10851.337409.38369@ararat.mygus.com> <3683D49B.A3A79364@mediaone.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <13955.59387.416124.270867@ararat.mygus.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Joey Garcia writes: > Vladik wrote: > > > gummibear@we.mediaone.net writes: > > > At 04:23 PM 12/24/98 -0800, rick hamell wrote: > > > > > > > >> Lately, I have basically evaluating the X Windows system, and I just can't > > > >> figure out why it hasn't been made any easier for average users. I can't > > > >> figure out why antialiased fonts (such as true type fonts) haven't been > > > >> made the standard. I can't figure out why there hasn't been a solution to > > > >> the problem of not having a standardized Interface (or a few standardized > > > >> interfaces to choose from when developing applications or whatever - choice > > > >> isn't a bad thing). I can't figure out why the standard X libraries and > > > >> widget set hasn't been given the 90's look and feel (ala qt libraries). > > > > > > > > There is a possiblity of another Windowing system. BUT, something > > > >you're over looking is that there are several more Window Managers then > > > >you've tried. FVMN, Enlightenment, Afterstep. One of them may do what you > > > >want. Supposedly Enlightenment is pretty configurable. > > > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > > > > The things that are still difficult with linux (at least for me) > > are setting up Internet dial-up, Xemacs (to read the news groups and > > mails)/Fonts for various programs. > > Basically I am trying to find programs/packages that allow > > me to configure that stuff without knowing anything about the config > > files, all GUI driven wizard, that set the whole system up. > > I think a good packagin system together with programs like "dofile > > generators" will do the job eventually. > > Yeah, setting up dial-up ppp stuff isn't the most easiest thing to do, but there are > scripts out there that help you do this. I have been playing around with perl for > quite sometime and I think that maybe I have enough knowledge in C programming to > come up with a binary (just because I like binaries) to set up the ppp stuff. Pppd > frontends are pretty kewl too. When I used to use Linux I used kppp which was > great. The setup wasn't so easy to figure out, but once you figure it out it's > basically point and click. With FreeBSD I just setup the ppp stuff manually using > the Handbook. It wasn't that hard, but I guess that all varies between users > systems and stuff like that. > > I'm not a pro with XEmacs so I can't help you there. I'm stil trying to figure out > what it all does, but I like the color coding. :) > > I've seen a "Dot File Generator" somewhere on the internet where modules could be > added in order to setup different dot files. Although, I forgot where it's at. > Anyone know? Although, it seems like most window managers and stuff come with their > own configuration software now a days. > > > Happy holidays, > > Vladislav > Dot file generators currently exist for many different things, as an example these are the ones I have installed on my Linux (debian) machine: ararat# dpkg -l | grep dot ii dotfile 2.2-1 dotfile generator ii dotfile-bash 1.02-3 Bash module for dotfile generator ii dotfile-doc 2.0-1 dotfile programmer documentation. ii dotfile-elm 1.0b1-5 elm module for dotfile generator ii dotfile-emacs 1.2-3 emacs module for dotfile generator ii dotfile-fvwm1 1.3-2 fvwm module for dotfile generator ii dotfile-fvwm2 1.0b6-5 fvwm2 module for dotfile generator ii dotfile-ipfwadm 0.23b3-4 ipfwadm module for dotfile generator ii dotfile-procmai 1.0b1-3 procmail module for dotfile generator ii dotfile-rtin 0.02-5 rtin module for dotfile generator ii dotfile-tcsh 1.3-3 tcsh module for dotfile generator ararat# See http://www.imada.ou.dk/~blackie/dotfile/ But again, I think, it is a combination of things that make the configuration of a UNIX machine easy: packaging system, menu update system (the one that updates menus with programs for all currently installed win managers), dot-file generators for easy customization wizard-like programs to setup ISP dial-up, security, OS tuning (kernel configs, module configs, etc), and of course, as it was mentioned, common GUI interface for a lot of office-type programs and common utilities (for example: There is always a different way to select fonts for Lyx (word processor), ghostview, X e-mail reader, etc) Also, as you could notice, I cannot still configure my Xemacs to spell check my e-mail before sending (it is one check box in Netscape in an easy to see place) :-) Vladislav To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Dec 25 12:46:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03062 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 12:46:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dsinw.com (dsinw.com [207.149.40.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03057 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 12:46:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hamellr@dsinw.com) Received: from direct-source.com.direct-source.com (ppp99.pm3-0.pdx.dsinw.com [207.149.41.99]) by dsinw.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA28004; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 12:43:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 12:32:32 -0800 () From: Rick Hamell To: Joey Garcia cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Unix Desktop In-Reply-To: <3683D878.194A14ED@mediaone.net> Message-ID: X-X-Sender: hamellr@dsinw.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I've thought about writing a diary about my FreeBSD system and how I set it > up. Although, it's kind of hard to document every little thing I do I guess. I just started this last night, it's onnline at www.dsinw.com/~hamellr Pretty much it's VERY basic, just quick notes of where to look for certain things. I hope to add more to it tonight and this weekend. I am also going to setup another PPP dial-up router. This time I will do a step-by-step documentation of it, and also put it up. > I guess the first thing one should do when installing a FreeBSD system is know > what packages to add. I remember when I first installed unix on my pc I > didn't know what all these software packages and the discriptions weren't good > enough for me at that time. Maybe there should be a recommended software > guide for newbies somewhere. Maybe in two versions, one for terminal based > applications and one for X based applications. And screen shots of these > recommended applications would be a good thing. So people could check it out > on a web site and see if it really is what they want to install. Agreed. I think that for me that is one of the turn offs of Linux, at least Redhat. It seems to install everything and then some. I don't care to have X on my routers, but want it on my desktop. Even taking the ports list with descriptions and including it in the installation program would help immensely. > Anyways, this all has to deal with customizing the system. Hell, I haven't > even touched on setting up a window manager and the .xinirc. *sigh* Too much > work!! Poor newbies (the ones that never even seen a unix prompt). It must > really suck to be them. I think that if we're going to attract more people to FreeBSD, this is certainly the way to go. Like it or not, 'we' pretty much have to hold a person's hand, especially on a first install. Heck, I had a Core Team member 10 feet away from me on my first install. If we can get documentation for a concrete step by step, here's what you do if you have problems installation, we'd be doing pretty good. I mean, Greg's book is good. BUT, it 'seems' to take a lot of stuff for granted. Like the fact that you SHOULD know what most your hardware is configured for. That you're smart enough to look in other places for the answer. Heck, it took me a good 4 hours to figure out how to mount a dos floppy disk and pull a couple of files off of it. (Has any one else noticed that man pages only seem to be good IF you already know what you're doing...?) Anyways, the above is my own, personal, eventual, giving back to the FreeBSD Project everything I can, long term goal. :) (Especially since I can't code my way out of a wet paper bag.... :) Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Dec 25 17:30:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA20809 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 17:30:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA20803 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 17:30:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id MAA16857 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 12:30:12 +1100 (EST) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 12:30:12 +1100 (EST) From: Sue Blake Message-Id: <199812260130.MAA16857@phoenix.welearn.com.au> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD Newbies First Aid Kit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FreeBSD-Newbies First Aid Kit (Last updated 30 August 1998) (This is a regular posting to the FreeBSD-Newbies mailing list. It is also available at http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/) FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.ORG is the place to send all questions about installing, configuring, running and using FreeBSD. All help requests are handled by FreeBSD-Questions, including newbies questions. FreeBSD-Newbies is different. We don't ask for help or answer how-to questions. It is a discussion forum for newbies. FreeBSD-Newbies provides a place for new FreeBSD users to meet and covers any of the activities of newbies that are not already dealt with elsewhere. Examples include helping each other to learn more on our own, finding and using resources, problem solving techniques, how to seek help elsewhere, how to use mailing lists and which lists to use, general chat, making mistakes, boasting, sharing ideas, stories, moral (but not technical) support, and taking an active part in the FreeBSD community. We take our problems and support questions to freebsd-questions, and use freebsd-newbies to meet others who are doing the same things that we do as newbies. One of the things we do together is learn more effective ways to find help when we need it. Here are some suggestions: When something doesn't work the way you expect 1. First look at the errata for your release of FreeBSD at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for the latest information and security advisories. 2. Search the Handbook, FAQ, and mail archives at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/search.html 3. If you still have a question or problem, collect the output of `uname -a' and of any relevant program(s) and email your question to FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. Mailing lists When you have a problem that you can't solve by yourself, there's only one support mailing list and that's FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. FreeBSD-questions helps with installation and basic setup as well as more general and advanced questions. You don't have to actually join freebsd-questions before asking a question there. Replies to your question will normally be sent to you personally as well as to the list. Just make sure you have read and followed the guidelines for posting, because you might find them different to what you're used to. If you do subscribe to freebsd-questions you'll have the advantage of seeing all of the recent questions and their answers. Before you post to FreeBSD-questions, please read the guidelines at http://www.lemis.com/questions.html Many of the people who answer FreeBSD-questions are very knowledgeable, but they get frustrated when they get questions which are difficult to understand. http://www.lemis.com/email.html is worth reading too. If you're not sure that you can follow these guidelines, come back and ask the other newbies for help on how to post an effective question to the support mailing list. Maybe your question has been asked before. If you search the mailing list archives at http://www.freebsd.org/search.html first you might get the answer right away. It's always worth trying. Other mailing lists (http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/eresources:charters.html) cover specialised areas and many are more developer-oriented. You'll need to read their charters carefully before participating, but it's probably a good idea to ask on either -newbies or -questions for advice about where to post a more specialised question. FreeBSD-announce is a very low volume read-only list for occasional announcements, such as notice of new releases, and the Really Quick Newsletter. It's worth subscribing to FreeBSD-announce too. Manuals You'll always be expected show that you have made some effort to use the available documentation before asking for help. That's not always as easy as it sounds! If you know what documentation you need but can't locate it, send a brief query to FreeBSD-questions. If you don't know what you need, always have trouble finding it, or can't make any sense of it when you do, ask some patient newbies to steer you in the right direction. Anyone interested in writing or reviewing documentation for FreeBSD is encouraged to join the FreeBSD Documentation Project. Details are at http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/docproj.html Other resources A resource list is available at http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html to help new and inexperienced FreeBSD users to find relevant information quickly. It includes books, on line documents and tutorials, and links to web pages that other newbies have found useful for learning. If you have a suggestion for good material to be included, please write to freebsd-newbies and tell us about it. But I have seen people asking questions here! It is quite common for people to send the wrong kind of post to a mailing list. Because we're newbies it'll certainly happen here from time to time. The best thing to do if you see a message that doesn't belong on a list is to ignore it. There's always someone around whose job it is to sort these problems out privately. The posts to the lists go straight through, whatever their content. It is going to be confusing for a little while because we're all newbies so we all make mistakes. That's OK. One thing we're going to see a fair bit is people posting questions, believing they're doing the right thing by posting here as newbies, not realising how it works. If someone answers those questions the situation will snowball. There's nothing wrong with helping someone to redirect their question to freebsd-questions, but please do so gently. There's nothing wrong with the occasional mistake either. So all questions, requests for help, etc still go to freebsd-questions as usual. Ours is more of a discussion group, a place where newbies can relax with other newbies and focus more on our successes than on our temporary imperfection. We can talk about things here that are not allowed on freebsd-questions. We're also a bit freer to make the mistakes that we need to make in order to learn. _________________________________________________________________ To Subscribe to FreeBSD-Newbies: Send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "subscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message. Mail sent to freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org appears on the mailing list. _________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Dec 25 21:28:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA03524 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 21:28:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebsd ([205.133.131.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA03519 for ; Fri, 25 Dec 1998 21:28:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jf@wcarchive.cdrom.com) Received: (from jf@localhost) by freebsd (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA02844 for newbies@freebsd.org; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 00:34:22 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jf) Message-ID: <19981226003411.A2835@freebsd> Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 00:34:11 -0500 From: Jim Foltz To: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org subscribe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Dec 26 13:06:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA02034 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 13:06:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hcol.humberc.on.ca (hcol.humberc.on.ca [142.214.101.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA02027 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 13:06:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scqdaf@globalserve.net) X-ROUTED: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 16:05:58 -0500 Received: from [209.161.210.8] [209.161.210.8] by hcol.humberc.on.ca with smtp id $T105479 ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 16:02:00 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Sender: scqdaf@mail.globalserve.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 18:09:31 -0500 To: FreeBSD-Newbies From: Dennis Favro Subject: Free Solaris Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The following is a little off-topic, but I figured this would be the best place to ask about it. Ok, I've had some time to muck about with FreeBSD and its been going pretty well. So now I've notice this free Solaris program offered by Sun and I'm wondering if its worth trying. I'm curious, but is Solaris a difficult thing to use? Or would it be easier to learn and a nice way to get into UNIX? (I prefer the philosophy behind FreeBSD, and I'd stick with it as my operating system of choice -- but the learning curve is pretty steep for someone who's making the leap into UNIX from the MacOS) --Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Dec 26 17:11:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA21559 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:11:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from b.mx.crl.com (bmx.crl.com [165.113.1.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA21554 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:11:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anarchy@crl.com) Received: from crl.crl.com (crl.com [165.113.1.12]) by b.mx.crl.com (8.8.7/) via SMTP id RAA02231; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:11:02 -0800 (PST) env-from (anarchy@crl.com) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:11:01 -0800 (PST) From: Ben Manes To: Dennis Favro cc: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: Re: Free Solaris In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Ok, I've had some time to muck about with FreeBSD and its been > going pretty well. So now I've notice this free Solaris program > offered by Sun and I'm wondering if its worth trying. I found that a few months back, and ordered the cd set. Its interesting, but I don't like it to much. It uses CDE, which looks great, and its almost on par with the windows interface, but the tools aren't very useful to me. It didn't seem very great as a home OS, nice but lacking all the features FreeBSD/Linux offer. That was 2.6, and 7.0 is out (not sure if its i386 yet). If you can, wait for 7.0 which is really 3.0, but they wanted to sound impressive or something. BTW, make sure you have all name-brand stuff because it has very few drivers. Also, I had trouble getting a multi-boot setup (don't like its boot-manager), and be careful with the filesystem because if you ever run linux, it thinks Solaris is a swap partition. > I'm curious, but is Solaris a difficult thing to use? Or would it > be easier to learn and a nice way to get into UNIX? At first it seems easy and great, but then since it seems to lack features for the home-user (meant for network server afterall). I don't think its worth fussing over, except I love the interface! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Dec 26 17:27:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA22735 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:27:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uhura.concentric.net (uhura.concentric.net [206.173.119.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA22730 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:27:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mlduke@newman.concentric.net) Received: from cliff.concentric.net ([206.173.119.90]) by uhura.concentric.net (8.9.1a/(98/12/15 5.12)) id UAA23835; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:27:34 -0500 (EST) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from ts003d48.mer-id.concentric.net (ts003d48.mer-id.concentric.net [206.173.184.156]) by cliff.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id UAA10345; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:27:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 18:27:43 -0700 (MST) From: ML Duke X-Sender: mlduke@concentric.net To: Dennis Favro cc: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: Re: Free Solaris In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Ok, I've had some time to muck about with FreeBSD and its been > going pretty well. So now I've notice this free Solaris program > offered by Sun and I'm wondering if its worth trying. My Unix Mentor is an AIX Systems Engineer in Texas. His job is to install, configure and administer a variety of commericial Unix flavors, Solaris among them. He basically says its a bugger to install and a pain in the but to administer as compared to FreeBSD. But, if its your desire to be a Unix administrator, it would be a _definite_ plus on your resume, as would any other commercial variety. ML Duke To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Dec 26 17:32:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA23086 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:32:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dsinw.com (dsinw.com [207.149.40.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA23081 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:32:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hamellr@dsinw.com) Received: from direct-source.com.direct-source.com (ppp116.pm3-0.pdx.dsinw.com [207.149.41.116]) by dsinw.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA18631; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:29:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 17:18:02 -0800 () From: Rick Hamell To: Dennis Favro cc: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: Re: Free Solaris In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-X-Sender: hamellr@dsinw.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Ok, I've had some time to muck about with FreeBSD and its been > going pretty well. So now I've notice this free Solaris program > offered by Sun and I'm wondering if its worth trying. > > I'm curious, but is Solaris a difficult thing to use? Or would it > be easier to learn and a nice way to get into UNIX? > > (I prefer the philosophy behind FreeBSD, and I'd stick with it as > my operating system of choice -- but the learning curve is pretty > steep for someone who's making the leap into UNIX from the MacOS) I could be wrong, but I believe Solaris only works on Sun hardware. FreeBSD runs on Intel, Alpha, and soon Sun. OpenBSD will run on anything. :) Solaris and FreeBSD are going to be equally hard to use at first. Once you learn one though, the other will be pretty simple. Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Dec 26 18:41:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA28507 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 18:41:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uhura.concentric.net (uhura.concentric.net [206.173.119.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA28502 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 18:41:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mlduke@newman.concentric.net) Received: from marconi.concentric.net (marconi [206.173.119.71]) by uhura.concentric.net (8.9.1a/(98/12/15 5.12)) id VAA00546; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 21:40:53 -0500 (EST) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from ts003d48.mer-id.concentric.net (ts003d48.mer-id.concentric.net [206.173.184.156]) by marconi.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id VAA09117; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 21:40:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:40:19 -0700 (MST) From: ML Duke X-Sender: mlduke@concentric.net To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Corel Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The free version 8 of WP for Linux has become available, CD/printed manual version (plus a few enhancements) for $50. The file is: >ftp ftp.cdrom.com/pub/simtelnet/cnet/win95/business/GUILG/GUILG00.GZ That ".../win95" in there bothers the $%!@ out of me--we shall see. The download is 40% complete, I'll be reading the install script. ML Duke To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Dec 26 19:32:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA02849 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:32:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp.enteract.com (thor.enteract.com [207.229.143.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA02844 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:32:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jrs@enteract.com) Received: (qmail 7479 invoked from network); 27 Dec 1998 03:32:27 -0000 Received: from adam.enteract.com (jrs@206.54.252.1) by thor.enteract.com with SMTP; 27 Dec 1998 03:32:27 -0000 Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 21:32:27 -0600 (CST) From: John Sconiers To: ML Duke cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Corel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > The free version 8 of WP for Linux has become available, CD/printed > manual version (plus a few enhancements) for $50. Ran great after I found an faq about getting the colors to look right. > The file is: > >ftp ftp.cdrom.com/pub/simtelnet/cnet/win95/business/GUILG/GUILG00.GZ Maybe they ran out of space.....Trying to figure out if I should use WP or Star office. > That ".../win95" in there bothers the $%!@ out of me--we shall see. I've heard through the grape vine that they are concentrating on Linux and won't release a windows..solaris version for a while.... > The download is 40% complete, I'll be reading the install script. No changes needed.....I wonder if lotus is considering writting its smart suite for Unix. I know you can run they email package on Solaris, HP and BSDI... > ML Duke JOHN To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Dec 26 19:50:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA04773 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:50:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from b.mx.crl.com (bmx.crl.com [165.113.1.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA04768 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:50:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anarchy@crl.com) Received: from crl.crl.com (crl.com [165.113.1.12]) by b.mx.crl.com (8.8.7/) via SMTP id TAA06594 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:50:20 -0800 (PST) env-from (anarchy@crl.com) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:50:20 -0800 (PST) From: Ben Manes To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Corel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org One thing you should note is that there's already a bug in WP8. Don't install it as root, because it sets the directory sharing as 777, and the files as 666 (if I remember this correctly). If I'm correct, that means that someone can tamper with the files and since it has root access.. you get the point. Also, I've heard a lot of printing problems, but otherwise its pretty good, though it oddly crashed on me a few times trying to open a word97 document. I guess you can just blame that on Microsoft.. =) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Dec 26 20:54:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA09128 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:54:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.184.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA09121 for ; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:54:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mlduke@newman.concentric.net) Received: from mcfeely.concentric.net (mcfeely [207.155.184.83]) by darius.concentric.net (8.9.1a/(98/08/04 5.11)) id XAA12951; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 23:54:00 -0500 (EST) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from ts003d29.mer-id.concentric.net (ts003d29.mer-id.concentric.net [206.173.184.137]) by mcfeely.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id XAA11144; Sat, 26 Dec 1998 23:53:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 21:54:09 -0700 (MST) From: ML Duke X-Sender: mlduke@concentric.net To: Ben Manes cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Corel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > One thing you should note is that there's already a bug in WP8. Don't > install it as root, Whops! Already did. Can't you be a little faster with these bug warnings? :) AS for printing, picked the Cannon LBP 430 in absence of the 860, printed a test file & it worked--not a sophisticated file. As before, we shall see. This could save many boots to wincrapo. Word 97 docs? I instruct _everyone_ to _never_ send me one of those. $ms isn't compatible with _itself_, for Christ's sake. Hmmm. This could be a rant. I'll quit. Thanks for the alert. ML Duke because it sets the directory sharing as 777, and the > files as 666 (if I remember this correctly). If I'm correct, that means > that someone can tamper with the files and since it has root access.. you > get the point. Also, I've heard a lot of printing problems, but otherwise > its pretty good, though it oddly crashed on me a few times trying to open > a word97 document. I guess you can just blame that on Microsoft.. =) > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message