From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 8 5: 0:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-64-165-226-227.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [64.165.226.227]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA8BC37B403 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 05:00:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C753E66B0C; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 05:00:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 05:00:35 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: [rikus@ittc.co.za: Re: Freebsd Training] Message-ID: <20011008050035.A6606@xor.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Someone want to respond to this? Kris ----- Forwarded message from Rikus Botes ----- Delivered-To: kkenn@localhost.obsecurity.org Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 13:43:23 +0200 From: Rikus Botes Subject: Re: Freebsd Training To: Kris Kennaway X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-MDRemoteIP: 66.8.57.29 X-Return-Path: rikus@ittc.co.za X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: kris@obsecurity.org X-Priority: 3 We would like to develop FreeBSD courseware and a support centre for FreeBSD users in South Africa. If it is possible, we would like to be associated with FreeBSD / Berkeley. We feel there is a need for certified FreeBSD support and training in South Africa, we have a training centre and the resources available to develop courseware for FreeBSD. We feel that we would be recognised if we had support from FreeBSD / Berkeley. Regards Regards Rikus Botes Information Technology Training Corporation Tel : +27 12 663 8866 Fax :+27 12 663 9977 E-mail : rikus@ittc.co.za Web: http://www.ittc.co.za ----- End forwarded message ----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 8 7:49:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (pc-62-31-42-140-hy.blueyonder.co.uk [62.31.42.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 549B737B40B for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 07:49:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f98EieK22163; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 15:44:40 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 15:44:40 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: rikus@ittc.co.za Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [rikus@ittc.co.za: Re: Freebsd Training] Message-ID: <20011008154440.U966@clan.nothing-going-on.org> References: <20011008050035.A6606@xor.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="G9m07da55tKJni3T" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20011008050035.A6606@xor.obsecurity.org>; from kris@obsecurity.org on Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 05:00:35AM -0700 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --G9m07da55tKJni3T Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rikus, Kris Kennaway forwarded your email on to me. On Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 05:00:35AM -0700, Kris Kennaway wrote: > We would like to develop FreeBSD courseware and a support centre for Free= BSD > users in South Africa. If it is possible, we would like to be associated > with FreeBSD / Berkeley. >=20 > We feel there is a need for certified FreeBSD support and training in Sou= th > Africa, we have a training centre and the resources available to develop > courseware for FreeBSD. >=20 > We feel that we would be recognised if we had support from FreeBSD / > Berkeley. That's certainly very encouraging to hear. However, as I'm sure you're aware, the FreeBSD project is a global volunteer effort. There is no one "FreeBSD Organisation" for you to be associated with in any formal sense. The FreeBSD project also does not have any formal ties with the University California, Berkeley, either. Of course, that does prevent us from linking to information about your training courses from the FreeBSD web site, and other forms of publicity. And I'm sure that creation of FreeBSD courseware is a newsworthy event that will appear on the FreeBSD site, and sites like DaemonNews and Slashdot. Speaking as a European IT Consultant I also know of FreeBSD related=20 organisations that would be interested in partnering with you in developing= =20 courseware and other training materials. Please let me know if you would like more information. N --=20 FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://www.freebsd.org/ FreeBSD Documentation Project http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/ --- 15B8 3FFC DDB4 34B0 AA5F 94B7 93A8 0764 2C37 E375 --- --G9m07da55tKJni3T Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjvBu9gACgkQk6gHZCw343V4MACfb1QVgDjxJdErG6QsZHlPXzNi KIAAn28GWuT2s3pmwWRwrsE2aD90ZJBN =0X2P -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --G9m07da55tKJni3T-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 8 10:20:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail6.speakeasy.net (mail6.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.206]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 636B337B40C for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 10:20:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 99681 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 17:20:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO laptop.baldwin.cx) ([64.81.54.73]) (envelope-sender ) by mail6.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 8 Oct 2001 17:20:15 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20011008154440.U966@clan.nothing-going-on.org> Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 10:19:47 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: Nik Clayton Subject: Re: [rikus@ittc.co.za: Re: Freebsd Training] Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.org, rikus@ittc.co.za Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 08-Oct-01 Nik Clayton wrote: > Of course, that does prevent us from linking to information about your ^ not > training courses from the FreeBSD web site, and other forms of > publicity. And I'm sure that creation of FreeBSD courseware is a > newsworthy event that will appear on the FreeBSD site, and sites like > DaemonNews and Slashdot. -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 8 10:54:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from r220-1.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE (r220-1.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.3.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4201F37B40B for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 10:54:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from r220-1.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE (relay2.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.3.1]) by r220-1.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE (8.10.1/8.11.3-2) with ESMTP id f98HsWj11018; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 19:54:32 +0200 (MEST) Received: from kawoserv.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (root@kawoserv.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.180.1]) by r220-1.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE (8.10.1/8.11.3/6) with ESMTP id f98HsUo11012; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 19:54:31 +0200 (MEST) Received: from zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de [134.130.181.28]) by kawoserv.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30965; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 19:54:29 +0200 Received: by zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (Postfix, from userid 1001) id B1C8214A81; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 19:54:29 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 19:54:29 +0200 From: Alexander Langer To: Warner Losh Cc: Andrew J Caines , FreeBSD Advocacy Subject: Re: FreeBSD license plate Message-ID: <20011008195429.I926@zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de> References: <20011006170403.C53638@hal9000.servehttp.com> <200110062322.f96NMM749038@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200110062322.f96NMM749038@harmony.village.org>; from imp@harmony.village.org on Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 05:22:22PM -0600 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-PGP-at: finger alex@big.endian.de X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thus spake Warner Losh (imp@harmony.village.org): > Justin Gibbs has a FREEBSD tag for the state of Colorado. I'm mad at > him because that means that I can't get it :-) Get LINUX then... Or ILOVELINUX if LINUX is taken. :) Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 10 5:10: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73A1537B409 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 05:10:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) id f9ACA0t34599; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 05:10:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDDED37B403 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 05:04:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) id f9AC4b530689; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 05:04:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nobody) Message-Id: <200110101204.f9AC4b530689@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 05:04:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Szilveszter Adam To: freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org X-Send-Pr-Version: www-1.0 Subject: advocacy/31194: freebsd.org mailing lists - configuration problem? Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Number: 31194 >Category: advocacy >Synopsis: freebsd.org mailing lists - configuration problem? >Confidential: no >Severity: serious >Priority: medium >Responsible: freebsd-advocacy >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: change-request >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Wed Oct 10 05:10:00 PDT 2001 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Szilveszter Adam >Release: CURRENT, but shouldn't matter >Organization: >Environment: My ISP and me, and the freebsd.org mailing lists >Description: I do not seem to be able to post to any of the mailing lists hosted at freebsd.org. I managed to subscribe allright but my messages do not get through. Yet, they are not outright rejected either. I think this is a configuration problem on the freebsd.org end. The symptom is that the message is rejected with a transitional error of: Helo command rejected; host not found and with an error code of 450 (I think) After a lot of investigation I determined what is probably the problem: My ISP's SMTP server, through which I relay, does not use its FQDN when issuing a HELO, rather it only uses its hostname. Eg it says HELO foo instead of HELO foo.bar.com The freebsd.org end (probably hub.freebsd.org) probably wants to reverse-resolve the name given in the HELO and fails since there is no host "foo" on the Internet. I would like to note that this is the first time that this configuration has caused any problems when sending mail to anywhere. While it may be argued that this may be part of an anti-spam policy on the freebsd.org side, I think that overly restricting access to freebsd.org's resources is not a good way of encouraging contributions to FreeBSD. Hence the filing under the advocacy category. >How-To-Repeat: Send mail to any mailing list hosted at freebsd.org from an SMTP server that does not put its FQDN in the HELO but only its hostname. Watch the transitory error messages come back for a few a days until your SMTP server gives up and the message fails. >Fix: Relax the checks that are made before accepting a message for the mailing lists. Also, leaving a message in limbo for several days is not exactly a great idea when you know that you won't accept it ever. >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 10 5:50:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 817A137B427 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 05:50:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) id f9ACo2W48052; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 05:50:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnats) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 05:50:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200110101250.f9ACo2W48052@freefall.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Cc: From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" Subject: RE: advocacy/31194: freebsd.org mailing lists - configuration problem? Reply-To: "Ted Mittelstaedt" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The following reply was made to PR advocacy/31194; it has been noted by GNATS. From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Szilveszter Adam" , Cc: Subject: RE: advocacy/31194: freebsd.org mailing lists - configuration problem? Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 05:45:55 -0700 >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG >[mailto:owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Szilveszter Adam >Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 5:05 AM >To: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG >Subject: advocacy/31194: freebsd.org mailing lists - configuration >problem? > > >My ISP's SMTP server, through which I relay, does not use its FQDN >when issuing a HELO, rather it only uses its hostname. Eg it says > >HELO foo > >instead of > >HELO foo.bar.com > First: close this PR. This is not broken behavior. Your ISP's mailserver is broken. No properly configured mailserver on the Internet issues an unqualified name with HELO. Your ISP's mailserver must be listed in the global DNS with a fully-qualified DNS name in order for it to receive incoming mail (ie: foo.bar.com or whatever) in the first place. Thus, it's in effect parading around with a fully-qualified DNS name from the rest of the world's perspective. For it to not issue that fully qualified DNS name in it's own HELO's is not only an error, it's rude as well. Please see the explanation atached to PR misc/26744 - this topic has been beat to death and everyone is tired of it. Nobody likes spammers and the only way we know how to fight them is to ENFORCE absolutely proper SMTP mail exchanges so the spammers may run but they can't hide. Your choice is to either beat your ISP over the head until they start doing it right, or obtain a static IP number with a valid reverse address record on it from them and set up your own mailserver and have at it. All major ISP's such as AOL, Earthlink, MSN, etc. have no problem complying with the Questions mailing list restrictions. If an ISP with millions of users processing thousands of pieces of mail an hour has no problem complying, then your ISP can do it too. Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 10 10:17:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 795F337B40A; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:17:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jhb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) id f9AHHAq12749; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:17:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:17:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Message-Id: <200110101717.f9AHHAq12749@freefall.freebsd.org> To: sziszi@bsd.hu, jhb@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: advocacy/31194: freebsd.org mailing lists - configuration problem? Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Synopsis: freebsd.org mailing lists - configuration problem? State-Changed-From-To: open->closed State-Changed-By: jhb State-Changed-When: Wed Oct 10 10:15:55 PDT 2001 State-Changed-Why: Close requested by Ted Mittelstaedt in his excellent followup message on the freebsd-advocacy list. Please instruct your ISP to fix their mail server. http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=31194 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 10 10:54:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pilchuck.reedmedia.net (pilchuck.reedmedia.net [63.145.197.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C317837B405 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:54:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from reed by pilchuck.reedmedia.net with local-esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 15rNZ5-0000hw-00; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:54:43 -0700 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:54:42 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: Szilveszter Adam Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: advocacy/31194: freebsd.org mailing lists - configuration problem? In-Reply-To: <200110101204.f9AC4b530689@freefall.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG (Not sent to gnats. I understand this is closed, but I do have a few comments.) On Wed, 10 Oct 2001, Szilveszter Adam wrote: > The symptom is that the message is rejected with a transitional error of: > > Helo command rejected; host not found and with an error code of 450 (I > think) Yes. It is a 450. 220 hub.freebsd.org ESMTP Postfix (Postfix Rules!) helo pilchuck 250 hub.freebsd.org mail from: 250 Ok rcpt to: 450 : Helo command rejected: Host not found quit 221 Bye Just for your information, this is suggested in RFC 2821 (which obsoletes 821): The argument field contains the fully-qualified domain name of the SMTP client if one is available. In situations in which the SMTP client system does not have a meaningful domain name (e.g., when its address is dynamically allocated and no reverse mapping record is available), the client SHOULD send an address literal ... If the problem had to do with reverse lookups that didn't match up, then: An SMTP server MAY verify that the domain name parameter in the EHLO command actually corresponds to the IP address of the client. However, the server MUST NOT refuse to accept a message for this reason if the verification fails: the information about verification failure is for logging and tracing only. > Watch the transitory error messages come back for a few a days until > your SMTP server gives up and the message fails. ... > Also, leaving a message in limbo for several days is not exactly a > great idea when you know that you won't accept it ever. But I don't think this part of your comments were answered. It seems like the mail server should not return a temporary error. I am not sure why the 450 "Helo command rejected: Host not found" occured after the "RCPT TO". I believe it should occur directly at the HELO (OR EHLO) with a permanent error, i.e.: helo pilchuck 500 : Helo command rejected: Host not found (The RFC says: "If the EHLO command is not acceptable to the SMTP server, 501, 500, or 502 failure replies MUST be returned as appropriate.") Jeremy C. Reed -- who is thinking about configuring his mail servers to log and then maybe reject invalid HELOs to try to stop more spam ... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 10 22: 8:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.169.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DED837B405 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 22:08:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tedm.placo.com (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.168.154]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f9B57wT00345; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 22:07:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Jeremy C. Reed" , "Szilveszter Adam" Cc: Subject: RE: advocacy/31194: freebsd.org mailing lists - configuration problem? Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 22:07:58 -0700 Message-ID: <006301c15212$b17e06c0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is an excellent point. anti-spam rejects should always have error codes starting with a 5 otherwise the sending server requeues and continues to resend indefinitely, burning up your bandwidth. Some people like to 4 them to tarpit the senders, but you need to be behind a DS-3 or your going to burn down your own house. Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG >[mailto:owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Jeremy C. Reed >Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 10:55 AM >To: Szilveszter Adam >Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG >Subject: Re: advocacy/31194: freebsd.org mailing lists - configuration >problem? > > >(Not sent to gnats. I understand this is closed, but I do have a few >comments.) > >On Wed, 10 Oct 2001, Szilveszter Adam wrote: > >> The symptom is that the message is rejected with a transitional error of: >> >> Helo command rejected; host not found and with an error code of 450 (I >> think) > >Yes. It is a 450. > > 220 hub.freebsd.org ESMTP Postfix (Postfix Rules!) > helo pilchuck > 250 hub.freebsd.org > mail from: > 250 Ok > rcpt to: > 450 : Helo command rejected: Host not found > quit > 221 Bye > >Just for your information, this is suggested in RFC 2821 (which obsoletes >821): > > The argument field contains the fully-qualified domain name > of the SMTP client if one is available. In situations in which the SMTP > client system does not have a meaningful domain name (e.g., when its > address is dynamically allocated and no reverse mapping record is > available), the client SHOULD send an address literal ... > >If the problem had to do with reverse lookups that didn't match up, then: > > An SMTP server MAY verify that the domain name parameter in the EHLO > command actually corresponds to the IP address of the client. However, > the server MUST NOT refuse to accept a message for this reason if the > verification fails: the information about verification failure is for > logging and tracing only. > >> Watch the transitory error messages come back for a few a days until >> your SMTP server gives up and the message fails. >... >> Also, leaving a message in limbo for several days is not exactly a >> great idea when you know that you won't accept it ever. > >But I don't think this part of your comments were answered. > >It seems like the mail server should not return a temporary error. >I am not sure why the 450 "Helo command rejected: Host not found" occured >after the "RCPT TO". > >I believe it should occur directly at the HELO (OR EHLO) with a permanent >error, i.e.: > > helo pilchuck > 500 : Helo command rejected: Host not found > >(The RFC says: "If the EHLO command is not acceptable to the SMTP server, >501, 500, or 502 failure replies MUST be returned as appropriate.") > > Jeremy C. Reed -- who is thinking about configuring his mail servers to > log and then maybe reject invalid HELOs to try to > stop more spam ... > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 10 22:15:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-64-165-226-227.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [64.165.226.227]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2548D37B405 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 22:15:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4DD7966B0C; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 22:15:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 22:15:33 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: "Jeremy C. Reed" Cc: Szilveszter Adam , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: advocacy/31194: freebsd.org mailing lists - configuration problem? Message-ID: <20011010221533.A2592@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <200110101204.f9AC4b530689@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Nq2Wo0NMKNjxTN9z" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from reed@reedmedia.net on Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 10:54:42AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --Nq2Wo0NMKNjxTN9z Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 10:54:42AM -0700, Jeremy C. Reed wrote: > > Also, leaving a message in limbo for several days is not exactly a > > great idea when you know that you won't accept it ever. >=20 > But I don't think this part of your comments were answered. >=20 > It seems like the mail server should not return a temporary error. > I am not sure why the 450 "Helo command rejected: Host not found" occured > after the "RCPT TO". >=20 > I believe it should occur directly at the HELO (OR EHLO) with a permanent > error, i.e.: >=20 > helo pilchuck > 500 : Helo command rejected: Host not found This would be incredibly annoying in cases of transient DNS failure. For example, suppose FreeBSD's DNS server broke, so no hostnames could be resolved. None of the incoming mail would be re-sent, and it would all be lost. Kris --Nq2Wo0NMKNjxTN9z Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7xSr1Wry0BWjoQKURAn41AKCxUgRXI81d87fLr+5VUFAjaflTnwCdHRPw JozW8P/56YgSQQdFV8i/Rjw= =FupX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Nq2Wo0NMKNjxTN9z-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 10 23:23:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pilchuck.reedmedia.net (pilchuck.reedmedia.net [63.145.197.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EF2C37B401 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 23:23:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from reed by pilchuck.reedmedia.net with local-esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 15rZFN-00019v-00; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 23:23:09 -0700 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 23:23:09 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: advocacy/31194: freebsd.org mailing lists - configuration problem? In-Reply-To: <006301c15212$b17e06c0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 10 Oct 2001, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > This is an excellent point. anti-spam rejects should always have error > codes starting with a 5 otherwise the sending server requeues and continues > to resend indefinitely, burning up your bandwidth. Not indefinitely. This is configurable by most (all?) mail servers; commonly, it is retried a few times a day for four days. On Wed, 10 Oct 2001, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 10:54:42AM -0700, Jeremy C. Reed wrote: > > It seems like the mail server should not return a temporary error. > This would be incredibly annoying in cases of transient DNS failure. > For example, suppose FreeBSD's DNS server broke, so no hostnames could > be resolved. None of the incoming mail would be re-sent, and it would > all be lost. But all will not be lost. The sender should receive a (bounce) message indicating the failure. You have a good point. I guess a 4xx is better than a 5xx. Either way the sender will eventually be told that the message failed (due to the bad HELO hostname). Jeremy C. Reed http://www.reedmedia.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Oct 11 0:12:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD5FA37B407 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 00:12:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebsd.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.207] helo=chemicalterrorism.com) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15ra1E-000Nrf-0C for freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 07:12:36 +0000 Received: from pain (pain.chemicalterrorism.com [192.168.0.3]) by chemicalterrorism.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5C928F751 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 08:12:32 +0100 (BST) From: "Si" To: Subject: RE: Banner Exchanges Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 08:12:32 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <006501c1418f$238f30c0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sorry, I've been afk for a while. > -----Original Message----- > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 5:46 AM > To: Si; freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG > Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: RE: Banner Exchanges > > Hello Si, > > What are you possibly talking about?!?!? > > I went to VA Linux's website and I see no banners there. Yep, i've just done the same but cant any links to there partner program anymore. The link i'm using at the minute to get the banners is, Which still works... I guess they've kinda silently dropped this service. > > > Ted Mittelstaedt > tedm@toybox.placo.com > Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate > Networker's Guide > Book website: > http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com Si. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message