From owner-freebsd-i18n Mon Apr 16 5: 6: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from puzo.uol.com.br (puzo.uol.com.br [200.231.206.183]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13BE037B424; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 05:06:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from e.brandi@uol.com.br) Received: from uol.com.br ([192.168.220.48]) by puzo.uol.com.br (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA13016; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 09:04:53 -0300 (BRT) Message-ID: <3ADAE0CE.53D5175F@uol.com.br> Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 09:08:46 -0300 From: Edson Brandi Organization: Universo Online X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 4.3-RC i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Cc: ache@freebsd.org, ebrandi.home@uol.com.br Subject: Brazilian version of sysinstall Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi I'm working in a personal project to translate sysinstall to portuguese. The work are in progress and I will be finished then in two weeks... I need know as I must proceed for release this version of sysinstall for the community. Edson Ps. I ask for excuses for my bad English, I read this language very well, but I do not write it with the same easiness -- , , Edson Brandi /( )` Supervisor de Operacoes - UOL \ \___ / | Fone: 0XX11 96555470 /- _ `-/ ' 0XX11 32244103 (/\/ \ \ /\ ICQ at Work: 32512639 / / | ` \ ICQ at Home: 100503189 O O ) / | -------------------------------------- `-^--'`< ' (_.) _ ) / Transforme seu PC numa Workstation Unix. `.___/` / Visite http://freebsd.ag.com.br `-----' / <----. __ / __ \ <----|====O)))==) \) /==== <----' `--' `.__,' \ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-i18n" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-i18n Tue Apr 17 8:48:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from whale.sunbay.crimea.ua (whale.sunbay.crimea.ua [212.110.138.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 287A737B423; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 08:48:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@whale.sunbay.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by whale.sunbay.crimea.ua (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f3HFlgd64382; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:47:42 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:47:42 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: "Andrey A. Chernov" Cc: i18n@FreeBSD.ORG, ru-cvs-all@FreeBSD.org.ua Subject: -mdoc localization support (was: Re: ** HEADS UP ** Groff 1.17 (including -mdocNG) imported) Message-ID: <20010417184742.A61775@sunbay.com> References: <20010417163318.A47398@sunbay.com> <20010417173754.A19540@nagual.pp.ru> <20010417170419.C47398@sunbay.com> <20010417183933.C20680@nagual.pp.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010417183933.C20680@nagual.pp.ru>; from ache@nagual.pp.ru on Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 06:39:34PM +0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [Redirected to -i18n] On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 06:39:34PM +0400, Andrey A. Chernov wrote: > On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 17:04:19 +0300, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: [...] > > > difference in implementation (the current implementation simply redefines > > some -mdoc string variables), if you run ``nroff -mdoc'' for English manpage, > > and your LANG environment variable is set to ru_RU.KOI8-R, you will get the > > corrupted output. > > This is unacceptable and must be fixed soon (LANG supposed to be always > set for Russians, and requiring extra argument for nroff is very > contr-intuitive in the light of the fact that old version works without > it). > Sure, just wanted to discuss the change first. :-) Here is the solution I can come up with right now. Every localized manpage should include one prologue line (similar to how this is done in calendar(1) files) that will set locale language to be used. For example, Russian manual pages would look like this: Index: apropos.1 =================================================================== RCS file: /home/rucvs/frdp/doc/ru_RU.KOI8-R/man/man1/apropos.1,v retrieving revision 1.2 diff -u -p -r1.2 apropos.1 --- apropos.1 2001/02/09 13:47:42 1.2 +++ apropos.1 2001/04/17 15:23:14 @@ -16,6 +16,7 @@ .\" $FreeBSDru: frdp/doc/ru_RU.KOI8-R/man/man1/apropos.1,v 1.2 2001/02/09 13:47:42 ru Exp $ .\" Original revision: 1.5.2.2 .\" +.ds lang ru_RU.KOI8-R .Dd 15 января 1991 .Dt APROPOS 1 .Os Then, mdoc.local script would load locale-specific file depending on the value of that variable: Index: mdoc.local =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/gnu/usr.bin/groff/tmac/mdoc.local,v retrieving revision 1.1 diff -u -p -r1.1 mdoc.local --- mdoc.local 2001/04/17 12:37:18 1.1 +++ mdoc.local 2001/04/17 15:35:37 @@ -58,5 +58,7 @@ .ds doc-operating-system FreeBSD\~5.0 . . -.\" KOI8-R locale support -.if "\*[.T]"koi8-r" .mso mdoc/koi8-r +.\" Locale support +.if d doc-lang \{\ +. if "\*[doc-lang]"ru_RU.KOI8-R" .mso mdoc/koi8-r +.\} Note that the "doc-" prefix is stripped when mdoc-local is installed. Does this looks acceptable to you? Cheers, -- Ruslan Ermilov Oracle Developer/DBA, ru@sunbay.com Sunbay Software AG, ru@FreeBSD.org FreeBSD committer, +380.652.512.251 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-i18n" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-i18n Wed Apr 18 1:41:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from nagual.pp.ru (pobrecita.freebsd.ru [194.87.13.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E13C737B422; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 01:41:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ache@nagual.pp.ru) Received: (from ache@localhost) by nagual.pp.ru (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f3I8fJ133560; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 12:41:20 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from ache) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 12:41:16 +0400 From: =?koi8-r?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= To: Ruslan Ermilov Cc: i18n@FreeBSD.ORG, ru-cvs-all@FreeBSD.org.ua Subject: Re: -mdoc localization support (was: Re: ** HEADS UP ** Groff 1.17 (including -mdocNG) imported) Message-ID: <20010418124114.A33411@nagual.pp.ru> References: <20010417163318.A47398@sunbay.com> <20010417173754.A19540@nagual.pp.ru> <20010417170419.C47398@sunbay.com> <20010417183933.C20680@nagual.pp.ru> <20010417184742.A61775@sunbay.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010417184742.A61775@sunbay.com>; from ru@FreeBSD.ORG on Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 06:47:42PM +0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 18:47:42 +0300, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > Every localized manpage should include one prologue line (similar to > how this is done in calendar(1) files) that will set locale language > to be used. For example, Russian manual pages would look like this: Please explain first the need of this prologue (I don't understand why any special processing ever needed). F.e. I can view English manpage in KOI8-R locale in old variant because English is subset of KOI8-R. So, I can view Russian manpage too, I see no difference or any prologue needs. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://ache.pp.ru/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-i18n" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-i18n Wed Apr 18 2:14:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from whale.sunbay.crimea.ua (whale.sunbay.crimea.ua [212.110.138.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F73B37B423 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 02:14:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@whale.sunbay.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by whale.sunbay.crimea.ua (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f3I9DJq52986; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 12:13:19 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 12:13:19 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: =?koi8-r?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= Cc: i18n@FreeBSD.ORG, ru-cvs-all@FreeBSD.org.ua Subject: Re: -mdoc localization support (was: Re: ** HEADS UP ** Groff 1.17 (including -mdocNG) imported) Message-ID: <20010418121319.A48752@sunbay.com> References: <20010417163318.A47398@sunbay.com> <20010417173754.A19540@nagual.pp.ru> <20010417170419.C47398@sunbay.com> <20010417183933.C20680@nagual.pp.ru> <20010417184742.A61775@sunbay.com> <20010418124114.A33411@nagual.pp.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010418124114.A33411@nagual.pp.ru>; from ache@nagual.pp.ru on Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 12:41:16PM +0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 12:41:16PM +0400, Андрей Чернов wrote: > On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 18:47:42 +0300, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > > Every localized manpage should include one prologue line (similar to > > how this is done in calendar(1) files) that will set locale language > > to be used. For example, Russian manual pages would look like this: > > Please explain first the need of this prologue (I don't understand why any > special processing ever needed). F.e. I can view English manpage in > KOI8-R locale in old variant because English is subset of KOI8-R. So, I > can view Russian manpage too, I see no difference or any prologue needs. > In the old -mdoc, KOI8-R locale support was implemented like this: 1. tmac.doc loaded tmac/mdoc/locale/locale-list 2. locale-list checked the value of \*[.T] variable (the argument to the troff(1)'s -T flag), and if that is "koi8-r", simply loaded localization file, mdoc/locale/koi8-r. Neither this is necessary for English manpages, nor this is longer works because of the "dirrerences in implementation". Old -mdoc localization worked by extending some macros and implementing a few locale macros. This is no longer needed with new -mdoc, see at the actual implementation in src/gnu/usr.bin/groff/tmac/koi8-r to get the idea. 3. Current implementation still bogusly loads locale file (koi8-r) if \*[.T] variable is "koi8-r", but loading koi8-r locale file now _overwrites_ some -mdoc variables with localized values, e.g. standard section names, library names, etc., i.e. it assumes that the manpage is in ru_RU.KOI8-R. Got it? So we need another way to specify the language of the manual page being processed. I proposed that we add the \*[doc-lang] variable, similar to the $LANG environment variable. One way to set it is the prologue line in every localized manpage, similar to how this is done in calendar(1). Another way is to have man(1) automatically set this variable depending on the share/man subdirectory like this: /usr/bin/groff -S -Wall -mtty-char -man -Tkoi8-r -dlang=ru.KOI8-R The first one has an advantage that the page will be displayed correctly irrespective of its actual location, but has an obvious disadvantage of forcing every single manpage to have the prologue line. The second one has their advantages and disadvantages reversed. Cheers, -- Ruslan Ermilov Oracle Developer/DBA, ru@sunbay.com Sunbay Software AG, ru@FreeBSD.org FreeBSD committer, +380.652.512.251 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-i18n" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-i18n Wed Apr 18 8:38:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from mx.globalone.ru (mx.globalone.ru [194.84.254.251]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D18B37B422; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 08:38:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from a.voropay@globalone.ru) Received: from hq.globalone.ru (hq.globalone.ru [172.16.38.1]) by mx.globalone.ru (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f3IFcS229164; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 19:38:28 +0400 Received: from host205.spb.in.rosprint.ru ([172.17.13.205]) by hq.globalone.ru (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id GBZVH900.D0P; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 19:39:09 +0400 Message-ID: <01bb01c0c81d$cfacf7c0$cd0d11ac@host205.spb.in.rosprint.ru> From: "Alexander Voropay" To: "Ruslan Ermilov" , "Andrey A. Chernov" Cc: , Subject: Re: -mdoc localization support (was: Re: ** HEADS UP ** Groff 1.17 (including -mdocNG) imported) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 19:37:06 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Sender: owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! Please, look upto thread with Subject: multilingual man pages into "linux-utf8@nl.linux.org" mailing list. Archive: http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-utf8/2001-04/ I will forward your message to this mailing list. -- -=AV=- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-i18n" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-i18n Thu Apr 19 1:39:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from nagual.pp.ru (pobrecita.freebsd.ru [194.87.13.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11F6937B424; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 01:39:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ache@nagual.pp.ru) Received: (from ache@localhost) by nagual.pp.ru (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f3J8dPn50065; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 12:39:25 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from ache) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 12:39:23 +0400 From: "Andrey A. Chernov" To: Ruslan Ermilov Cc: i18n@FreeBSD.ORG, ru-cvs-all@FreeBSD.org.ua Subject: Re: -mdoc localization support (was: Re: ** HEADS UP ** Groff 1.17 (including -mdocNG) imported) Message-ID: <20010419123922.C49670@nagual.pp.ru> References: <20010417163318.A47398@sunbay.com> <20010417173754.A19540@nagual.pp.ru> <20010417170419.C47398@sunbay.com> <20010417183933.C20680@nagual.pp.ru> <20010417184742.A61775@sunbay.com> <20010418124114.A33411@nagual.pp.ru> <20010418121319.A48752@sunbay.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010418121319.A48752@sunbay.com>; from ru@FreeBSD.ORG on Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 12:13:19PM +0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 12:13:19 +0300, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > 3. Current implementation still bogusly loads locale file (koi8-r) if > \*[.T] variable is "koi8-r", but loading koi8-r locale file now > _overwrites_ some -mdoc variables with localized values, e.g. > standard section names, library names, etc., i.e. it assumes > that the manpage is in ru_RU.KOI8-R. Got it? Yes. Specifying doc language/encoding somewhere inside document header (like HTML does f.e.) will be the right solution. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://ache.pp.ru/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-i18n" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-i18n Thu Apr 19 6:36:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from snark.ptc.spbu.ru (snark.ptc.spbu.ru [195.19.225.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7070337B423; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 06:36:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from uwe@snark.ptc.spbu.ru) Received: (from uwe@localhost) by snark.ptc.spbu.ru (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) id RAA17513; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 17:36:22 +0400 (MSD) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 17:36:22 +0400 From: "Valeriy E. Ushakov" To: Ruslan Ermilov Cc: "Andrey A. Chernov" , i18n@FreeBSD.ORG, ru-cvs-all@FreeBSD.org.ua Subject: Re: -mdoc localization support (was: Re: ** HEADS UP ** Groff 1.17 (including -mdocNG) imported) Message-ID: <20010419173622.B17390@snark.ptc.spbu.ru> Mail-Followup-To: Ruslan Ermilov , "Andrey A. Chernov" , i18n@FreeBSD.ORG, ru-cvs-all@FreeBSD.org.ua References: <20010417163318.A47398@sunbay.com> <20010417173754.A19540@nagual.pp.ru> <20010417170419.C47398@sunbay.com> <20010417183933.C20680@nagual.pp.ru> <20010417184742.A61775@sunbay.com> <20010418124114.A33411@nagual.pp.ru> <20010418121319.A48752@sunbay.com> <20010419123922.C49670@nagual.pp.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.3i In-Reply-To: <20010419123922.C49670@nagual.pp.ru>; from "Andrey A. Chernov" on Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 12:39:23 Sender: owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 12:39:23 +0400, Andrey A. Chernov wrote: > On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 12:13:19 +0300, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > > > 3. Current implementation still bogusly loads locale file (koi8-r) if > > \*[.T] variable is "koi8-r", but loading koi8-r locale file now > > _overwrites_ some -mdoc variables with localized values, e.g. > > standard section names, library names, etc., i.e. it assumes > > that the manpage is in ru_RU.KOI8-R. Got it? > > Yes. Specifying doc language/encoding somewhere inside document header > (like HTML does f.e.) will be the right solution. Ruslan, have you had a chance to look at my old groff koi8-r bits I sent to you some time ago? E.g. I think that lumped english+russian hypenation is not a very orthogonal way to do things and that explicit .hla is better. SY, Uwe -- uwe@ptc.spbu.ru | Zu Grunde kommen http://www.ptc.spbu.ru/~uwe/ | Ist zu Grunde gehen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-i18n" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-i18n Thu Apr 19 7:42: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from beep.ru (www.beep.ru [212.188.13.192]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E74DF37B43C for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 07:41:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from evg_dolgop@beep.ru) Received: from 212.13.99.132 by beep.ru with SMTP id AA24483 for freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 18:41:25 +0400 (MSD) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 18:31:51 +0400 From: Evgeny Dolgopiat X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.36) S/N F29DEE5D / Educational Reply-To: =?koi8-r?B?5dfHxc7JyiDkz8zHz9DR1A==?= X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <0772.010419@beep.ru> To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Cc: Edson Brandi Subject: Re: Brazilian version of sysinstall Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is this i18n version or simple translation? I18n is interesting, translation - no. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-i18n" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-i18n Thu Apr 19 8:29:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from puzo.uol.com.br (puzo.uol.com.br [200.231.206.183]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81FA637B424 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 08:29:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from e.brandi@uol.com.br) Received: from spock.intranet ([192.168.220.48]) by puzo.uol.com.br (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA07639; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 12:28:26 -0300 (BRT) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 12:32:22 -0300 (BRT) From: Edson Brandi X-X-Sender: To: Evgeny Dolgopiat Cc: Subject: Re: Brazilian version of sysinstall In-Reply-To: <0772.010419@beep.ru> Message-ID: <20010419122333.R16599-100000@spock.intranet> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi > Is this i18n version or simple translation? I18n is interesting, > translation - no. :-( At this moment my job was simple translation... I lost my work ... :-( Thks for your reply [ ]'s Edson , , Edson Brandi /( )` Supervisor de Operacoes - UOL \ \___ / | Fone: 0XX11 96555470 /- _ `-/ ' 0XX11 32244103 (/\/ \ \ /\ ICQ at Work: 32512639 / / | ` \ ICQ at Home: 100503189 O O ) / | -------------------------------------- `-^--'`< ' (_.) _ ) / Transforme seu PC numa Workstation Unix. `.___/` / Visite http://freebsd.ag.com.br `-----' / <----. __ / __ \ <----|====O)))==) \) /==== <----' `--' `.__,' \ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-i18n" in the body of the message