From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 16 19:10:02 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E0AE16A4CE for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 19:10:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from wingfoot.org (caduceus.wingfoot.org [64.32.179.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EA9743D5E for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 19:10:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ges+lists@wingfoot.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wingfoot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD29E1F4408 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 15:10:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wingfoot.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (wingfoot.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17025-05 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 15:09:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.3] (ool-44c47f78.dyn.optonline.net [68.196.127.120]) by wingfoot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F0E51F4405 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 15:09:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4288F152.6000409@wingfoot.org> Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 15:15:30 -0400 From: Glenn Sieb Organization: Wingfoot Organization User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041206 Thunderbird/1.0 Mnenhy/0.6.0.104 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at wingfoot.org Subject: AMD Athlon64... X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:10:02 -0000 Greetings. I'm looking at upgrading my server hardware. I'd love to use an AMD Athlon64 (939 probably). I also am a fan of ABit motherboards (I've been using them for years now). I'm considering the ABit AN8 http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/techspec.php?categories=1&model=259--which has SATA RAID, up to 4gb of RAM, GbE and some other things I don't particularly care about for a server. I was just curious if anyone out there's running the AN8, and if so, how it works with FreeBSD 5.x? If not, what do you run with your Athlon64? :-) Thanks in advance... Best, --Glenn -- "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 16 19:22:54 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86FF916A4CE for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 19:22:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37F1643DC6 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 19:22:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D33A23D42; Tue, 17 May 2005 15:22:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dan Langille" To: Glenn Sieb Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 15:22:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4288BACD.7226.41EFD4D1@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4288F152.6000409@wingfoot.org> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.21c) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AMD Athlon64... X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:22:54 -0000 On 16 May 2005 at 15:15, Glenn Sieb wrote: > I'm looking at upgrading my server hardware. I'd love to use an AMD > Athlon64 (939 probably). I also am a fan of ABit motherboards (I've been > using them for years now). > > I'm considering the ABit AN8 > http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/techspec.php?categories=1&model=259--which > has SATA RAID, up to 4gb of RAM, GbE and some other things I don't > particularly care about for a server. > > I was just curious if anyone out there's running the AN8, and if so, how > it works with FreeBSD 5.x? If not, what do you run with your Athlon64? :-) Have you considered the ASUS A8V-DX K8T800? I have this m/b, 1GB of RAM and an AMD 64 Athlon 3200+. It's still running an i386 kernel, but that will be upgraded soon to a 64 bit kernel. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - The Technical BSD Conference - http://www.bsdcan.org/ NEW brochure available at http://www.bsdcan.org/2005/advocacy/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 16 19:29:10 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 788FA16A4CE for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 19:29:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from wingfoot.org (caduceus.wingfoot.org [64.32.179.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 289E443DC0 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 19:29:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ges+lists@wingfoot.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wingfoot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 725A81F4408; Mon, 16 May 2005 15:29:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wingfoot.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (wingfoot.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18512-06; Mon, 16 May 2005 15:29:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.3] (ool-44c47f78.dyn.optonline.net [68.196.127.120]) by wingfoot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 601B01F4405; Mon, 16 May 2005 15:29:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4288F5D8.10706@wingfoot.org> Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 15:34:48 -0400 From: Glenn Sieb Organization: Wingfoot Organization User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041206 Thunderbird/1.0 Mnenhy/0.6.0.104 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Langille References: <4288BACD.7226.41EFD4D1@localhost> In-Reply-To: <4288BACD.7226.41EFD4D1@localhost> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at wingfoot.org cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AMD Athlon64... X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:29:10 -0000 Hey Dan--thanks for the reply! Dan Langille said the following on 5/16/2005 3:22 PM: >Have you considered the ASUS A8V-DX K8T800? I have this m/b, 1GB of >RAM and an AMD 64 Athlon 3200+. It's still running an i386 kernel, >but that will be upgraded soon to a 64 bit kernel. > > Looks nice--what's up with the two SATA RAID controllers with two ports? Can you do 0+1 with all four together? Do you like it with 5.x? Thanks, Dan! Best, --Glenn -- "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 16 19:42:00 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 110E616A4CE for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 19:42:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACBA943D8C for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 19:41:59 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD1563D42; Tue, 17 May 2005 15:41:18 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dan Langille" To: Glenn Sieb , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 15:41:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4288BF43.32337.42014134@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4288F5D8.10706@wingfoot.org> References: <4288BACD.7226.41EFD4D1@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.21c) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AMD Athlon64... X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:42:00 -0000 On 16 May 2005 at 15:34, Glenn Sieb wrote: > Hey Dan--thanks for the reply! > > Dan Langille said the following on 5/16/2005 3:22 PM: > > >Have you considered the ASUS A8V-DX K8T800? I have this m/b, 1GB of > >RAM and an AMD 64 Athlon 3200+. It's still running an i386 kernel, > >but that will be upgraded soon to a 64 bit kernel. > > > > > Looks nice--what's up with the two SATA RAID controllers with two ports? > Can you do 0+1 with all four together? I don't know. I'm running it with just one IDE drive. > Do you like it with 5.x? It's still on 4.11... -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - The Technical BSD Conference - http://www.bsdcan.org/ NEW brochure available at http://www.bsdcan.org/2005/advocacy/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 16 19:49:19 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1991816A4CE for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 19:49:19 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail2.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at (mail2.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at [140.78.3.69]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F3D443DA1 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 19:49:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from harald.wille@students.jku.at) Received: from email.uni-linz.ac.at (boba.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at [140.78.3.67]) j4GJn3CQ057072; Mon, 16 May 2005 21:49:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from harald.wille@students.jku.at) Received: from heim-034-71.raab-heim.uni-linz.ac.at (heim-034-71.raab-heim.uni-linz.ac.at [193.171.34.71]) by email.uni-linz.ac.at (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7225B564C8; Mon, 16 May 2005 21:49:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from (193.171.34.71) by gwavraab.uni-linz.ac.at via smtp id 6cda_5c241062_c643_11d9_8ef7_001143d314e3; Mon, 16 May 2005 21:47:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from heim-034-71.raab-heim.uni-linz.ac.at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) j4GJmmvZ007592; Mon, 16 May 2005 21:48:48 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from iqd@heim-034-71.raab-heim.uni-linz.ac.at) Received: (from iqd@localhost)j4GJmhLb007586; Mon, 16 May 2005 21:48:43 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from iqd) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 21:48:43 +0200 From: Wille Harald To: Glenn Sieb Message-ID: <20050516194843.GA6899@heim-034-71.raab-heim.uni-linz.ac.at> Mail-Followup-To: Glenn Sieb , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <4288F152.6000409@wingfoot.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4288F152.6000409@wingfoot.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-wipe-MailScanner-Information: Please contact www.wipe.at for more information X-wipe-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-wipe-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-2.834, required 6, autolearn=not spam, ALL_TRUSTED -3.30, AWL 3.06, BAYES_00 -2.60) X-MailScanner-From: iqd@heim-034-71.raab-heim.uni-linz.ac.at X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.44 cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AMD Athlon64... X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:49:19 -0000 On Mon, May 16, 2005 at 03:15:30PM -0400, Glenn Sieb wrote: > Greetings. > > I'm looking at upgrading my server hardware. I'd love to use an AMD > Athlon64 (939 probably). I also am a fan of ABit motherboards (I've been > using them for years now). > > I'm considering the ABit AN8 > http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/techspec.php?categories=1&model=259--which > has SATA RAID, up to 4gb of RAM, GbE and some other things I don't > particularly care about for a server. > > I was just curious if anyone out there's running the AN8, and if so, how > it works with FreeBSD 5.x? If not, what do you run with your Athlon64? :-) I'm running FreeBSD 5.4 on a MSI K8T Neo2, Athlon64 3000+, 512MB RAM. The MOBO is low priced and very stable (GE, S-ATA etc.) (Chipset is VIA K8T800 Pro and Socket 939) No problems with FreeBSD for now and the performance is also very good. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 16 20:36:09 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C88A16A4D0 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 20:36:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from wingfoot.org (caduceus.wingfoot.org [64.32.179.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A977343DC9 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 20:36:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ges+lists@wingfoot.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wingfoot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 373151F440A; Mon, 16 May 2005 16:36:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wingfoot.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (wingfoot.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31830-06; Mon, 16 May 2005 16:36:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.3] (ool-44c47f78.dyn.optonline.net [68.196.127.120]) by wingfoot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06D961F4405; Mon, 16 May 2005 16:36:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42890562.8060309@wingfoot.org> Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 16:41:06 -0400 From: Glenn Sieb Organization: Wingfoot Organization User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041206 Thunderbird/1.0 Mnenhy/0.6.0.104 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wille Harald References: <4288F152.6000409@wingfoot.org> <20050516194843.GA6899@heim-034-71.raab-heim.uni-linz.ac.at> In-Reply-To: <20050516194843.GA6899@heim-034-71.raab-heim.uni-linz.ac.at> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at wingfoot.org cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AMD Athlon64... X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 20:36:09 -0000 Wille Harald said the following on 5/16/2005 3:48 PM: >I'm running FreeBSD 5.4 on a MSI K8T Neo2, Athlon64 3000+, 512MB RAM. >The MOBO is low priced and very stable (GE, S-ATA etc.) >(Chipset is VIA K8T800 Pro and Socket 939) > >No problems with FreeBSD for now and the performance is also very good. > > Hey Wille--Thanks for the reply! I think I'd like a couple more SATA RAID ports though. Preferably I'd like to do 0+1 (well no, *preferably* I'd love to do RAID-5 but that's not realistic or in my budget (grin)). It does look like a nice board, otherwise--thanks for the headsup! :-) Best, --Glenn -- "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 16 22:43:01 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2B3416A4D2 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 22:43:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail2.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at (mail2.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at [140.78.3.69]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70A0643DA2 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 22:42:59 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from harald.wille@students.jku.at) Received: from email.uni-linz.ac.at (boba.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at [140.78.3.67]) j4GMgnCQ003494; Tue, 17 May 2005 00:42:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from harald.wille@students.jku.at) Received: from heim-034-71.raab-heim.uni-linz.ac.at (heim-034-71.raab-heim.uni-linz.ac.at [193.171.34.71]) by email.uni-linz.ac.at (Postfix) with ESMTP id D683C56460; Tue, 17 May 2005 00:42:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from (193.171.34.71) by gwavraab.uni-linz.ac.at via smtp id 6ee6_a331d9d6_c65b_11d9_8de4_001143d314e3; Tue, 17 May 2005 00:41:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from heim-034-71.raab-heim.uni-linz.ac.at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) j4GMgg06011090; Tue, 17 May 2005 00:42:42 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from iqd@heim-034-71.raab-heim.uni-linz.ac.at) Received: (from iqd@localhost)j4GMgf5k011089; Tue, 17 May 2005 00:42:41 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from iqd) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 00:42:41 +0200 From: Wille Harald To: Glenn Sieb Message-ID: <20050516224241.GA9526@heim-034-71.raab-heim.uni-linz.ac.at> Mail-Followup-To: Glenn Sieb , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <4288F152.6000409@wingfoot.org> <20050516194843.GA6899@heim-034-71.raab-heim.uni-linz.ac.at> <42890562.8060309@wingfoot.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <42890562.8060309@wingfoot.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-wipe-MailScanner-Information: Please contact www.wipe.at for more information X-wipe-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-wipe-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-2.836, required 6, autolearn=not spam, ALL_TRUSTED -3.30, AWL 3.06, BAYES_00 -2.60) X-MailScanner-From: iqd@heim-034-71.raab-heim.uni-linz.ac.at X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.44 cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AMD Athlon64... X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 22:43:02 -0000 On Mon, May 16, 2005 at 04:41:06PM -0400, Glenn Sieb wrote: > Hey Wille--Thanks for the reply! > > I think I'd like a couple more SATA RAID ports though. Preferably I'd > like to do 0+1 (well no, *preferably* I'd love to do RAID-5 but that's > not realistic or in my budget (grin)). > Neither in mine (not yet) :) I you want more SATA ports, then you can check out the FIR version of this MOBO. The main difference is the Firewire ports and a second SATA controller (Promise 20579) price is approx. 30% higher. The promise controller can do 0+1 with the two SATA drives and two PATA drives. But you can't do 0+1 with four SATA drives, because they are on two different RAID controllers. The ASUS A8V-DX K8T800 (as you asked) has also a promise 20378 onboard, so also not able to do 0+1 with four SATA drives. > It does look like a nice board, otherwise--thanks for the headsup! :-) > > Best, > --Glenn Greetings, Harald From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 17 00:08:28 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48EFB16A4CE for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 00:08:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail27.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail27.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.29]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EBC343D8A for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 00:08:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd-current-local@be-well.ilk.org) Received: (qmail 8519 invoked from network); 17 May 2005 00:08:26 -0000 Received: from dsl092-078-145.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net (HELO be-well.ilk.org) ([66.92.78.145]) (envelope-sender ) by mail27.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 17 May 2005 00:08:26 -0000 Received: by be-well.ilk.org (Postfix, from userid 1147) id 2A82B28; Mon, 16 May 2005 20:08:26 -0400 (EDT) Sender: lowell@be-well.ilk.org To: Matthew Jacob References: <20050516203932.0A38316A4D0@hub.freebsd.org> <7579f7fb05051617002ed65860@mail.gmail.com> From: Lowell Gilbert Date: 16 May 2005 20:08:26 -0400 In-Reply-To: <7579f7fb05051617002ed65860@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <448y2er9xh.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> Lines: 11 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: Bill Paul cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Alright you primitive screwheads, LISTEN UP!! X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 00:08:28 -0000 Matthew Jacob writes: > What an amusing rant. As far as I can tell, I've always been banned > from your Inbox whether I called you BIll, Paul, Wpaul, or > OMisterWizard! He's just got too many first names. Like you. And me. [I've got *three* names that can be first *or* last, and that's not even counting the fact that I also answer to my wife's last name...] From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 17 00:13:01 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBD2116A4CE for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 00:13:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (cain.gsoft.com.au [203.31.81.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8EE843DA7 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 00:12:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from inchoate.gsoft.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4H0CpKE059565; Tue, 17 May 2005 09:42:51 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 09:42:37 +0930 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <4288F152.6000409@wingfoot.org> In-Reply-To: <4288F152.6000409@wingfoot.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart3660985.1KS3rz3S2E"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200505170942.47262.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> X-Spam-Score: -1.4 () IN_REP_TO,MIME_LONG_LINE_QP,PGP_SIGNATURE_2,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.16 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) cc: Glenn Sieb Subject: Re: AMD Athlon64... X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 00:13:01 -0000 --nextPart3660985.1KS3rz3S2E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Tue, 17 May 2005 04:45, Glenn Sieb wrote: > I'm considering the ABit AN8 > http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/techspec.php?categories=3D1&model=3D2= 59--wh >ich has SATA RAID, up to 4gb of RAM, GbE and some other things I don't > particularly care about for a server. I'd be reluctant to use it since it has an nForce chipset, I have an AV8 he= re=20 which is working almost flawlessly (The only problem is that vge only work= =20 when compiled into the kernel). It's running 5.3 on an Athlon64 3000+. =2D-=20 Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum GPG Fingerprint - 5596 B766 97C0 0E94 4347 295E E593 DC20 7B3F CE8C --nextPart3660985.1KS3rz3S2E Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQBCiTb/5ZPcIHs/zowRAnbYAJ9Fau/dIe/WyafbGpB7bahIBBr1mwCfQ2fn RkgHmkwmhRCYQlFh4a1Clyc= =GeXn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart3660985.1KS3rz3S2E-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 17 00:35:06 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D843016A4CE for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 00:35:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: from wingfoot.org (caduceus.wingfoot.org [64.32.179.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8205443D6B for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 00:35:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ges+lists@wingfoot.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wingfoot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21EEB1F4408; Mon, 16 May 2005 20:35:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wingfoot.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (wingfoot.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 69127-01; Mon, 16 May 2005 20:35:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.3] (ool-44c47f78.dyn.optonline.net [68.196.127.120]) by wingfoot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0879D1F4405; Mon, 16 May 2005 20:35:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42893C38.60202@wingfoot.org> Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 20:35:04 -0400 From: Glenn Sieb Organization: Wingfoot Organization User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041206 Thunderbird/1.0 Mnenhy/0.6.0.104 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Daniel O'Connor References: <4288F152.6000409@wingfoot.org> <200505170942.47262.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> In-Reply-To: <200505170942.47262.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at wingfoot.org cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AMD Athlon64... X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 00:35:07 -0000 Daniel O'Connor said the following on 5/16/2005 8:12 PM: >I'd be reluctant to use it since it has an nForce chipset, I have an AV8 here >which is working almost flawlessly (The only problem is that vge only work >when compiled into the kernel). It's running 5.3 on an Athlon64 3000+. > Mm. There is that. Though it's easy enough to download the port & files onto a thumb drive or floppy beforehand and pop the driver on after the install. It just adds a pre-step to updating the kernel (download & install the latest port for the driver... do the build/installkernel, then go back and de/reinstall the port--I'm sure there's a better way of doing it, but that's what I've been doing.) Best, --G. -- "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 17 01:06:09 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BF2B16A4CE for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 01:06:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (cain.gsoft.com.au [203.31.81.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3817743D95 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 01:06:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from inchoate.gsoft.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4H162SB061932; Tue, 17 May 2005 10:36:02 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Glenn Sieb Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 10:35:39 +0930 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <4288F152.6000409@wingfoot.org> <200505170942.47262.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> <42893C38.60202@wingfoot.org> In-Reply-To: <42893C38.60202@wingfoot.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1573264.LMRl401oJf"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200505171035.56975.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 () IN_REP_TO,PGP_SIGNATURE_2,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.16 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AMD Athlon64... X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 01:06:09 -0000 --nextPart1573264.LMRl401oJf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Tue, 17 May 2005 10:05, Glenn Sieb wrote: > Daniel O'Connor said the following on 5/16/2005 8:12 PM: > >I'd be reluctant to use it since it has an nForce chipset, I have an AV8 > > here which is working almost flawlessly (The only problem is that vge > > only work when compiled into the kernel). It's running 5.3 on an Athlon= 64 > > 3000+. > > Mm. There is that. Though it's easy enough to download the port & files > onto a thumb drive or floppy beforehand and pop the driver on after the > install. > > It just adds a pre-step to updating the kernel (download & install the > latest port for the driver... do the build/installkernel, then go back > and de/reinstall the port--I'm sure there's a better way of doing it, > but that's what I've been doing.) ?? The vge driver is in the 5.3 GENERIC kernel. I normally make my kernels fai= rly=20 minimal but it seems the vge driver doesn't work properly as a module, only= =20 built into the kernel. Maybe you're thinking of the nvnet driver. =2D-=20 Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum GPG Fingerprint - 5596 B766 97C0 0E94 4347 295E E593 DC20 7B3F CE8C --nextPart1573264.LMRl401oJf Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQBCiUN05ZPcIHs/zowRAklEAJ9bq/tvpe822BUlIheUNSPOCV2lAACfcqzh zyHCKp6CHeOrEmMwNPwG+7Y= =XMgD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1573264.LMRl401oJf-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 17 01:11:30 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89E7F16A4CE for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 01:11:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from wingfoot.org (caduceus.wingfoot.org [64.32.179.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3321943D4C for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 01:11:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ges+lists@wingfoot.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wingfoot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62DE91F4405; Mon, 16 May 2005 21:11:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wingfoot.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (wingfoot.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 74040-04; Mon, 16 May 2005 21:11:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.3] (ool-44c47f78.dyn.optonline.net [68.196.127.120]) by wingfoot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C35C1F4409; Mon, 16 May 2005 21:11:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <428944C5.2010203@wingfoot.org> Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 21:11:33 -0400 From: Glenn Sieb Organization: Wingfoot Organization User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041206 Thunderbird/1.0 Mnenhy/0.6.0.104 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Daniel O'Connor References: <4288F152.6000409@wingfoot.org> <200505170942.47262.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> <42893C38.60202@wingfoot.org> <200505171035.56975.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> In-Reply-To: <200505171035.56975.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at wingfoot.org cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AMD Athlon64... X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 01:11:30 -0000 Daniel O'Connor said the following on 5/16/2005 9:05 PM: >The vge driver is in the 5.3 GENERIC kernel. I normally make my kernels fairly >minimal but it seems the vge driver doesn't work properly as a module, only >built into the kernel. > >Maybe you're thinking of the nvnet driver. > Yup. I am... Best, --G. -- "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 17 02:14:17 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E85816A4D9 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 02:14:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ezekiel.daleco.biz (cdm-66-76-92-18.cart.cox-internet.com [66.76.92.18]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EA2E43D7E for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 02:14:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from [192.168.2.2] (archangel.daleco.biz [69.27.157.254]) by ezekiel.daleco.biz (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4H2E5ps070920; Mon, 16 May 2005 21:14:05 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Message-ID: <42895365.3060504@daleco.biz> Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 21:13:57 -0500 From: Kevin Kinsey User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.7) Gecko/20050428 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lowell Gilbert References: <20050516203932.0A38316A4D0@hub.freebsd.org> <7579f7fb05051617002ed65860@mail.gmail.com> <448y2er9xh.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> In-Reply-To: <448y2er9xh.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Alright you primitive screwheads, LISTEN UP!! X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 02:14:17 -0000 Lowell Gilbert wrote: >Matthew Jacob writes: > > > >>What an amusing rant. As far as I can tell, I've always been banned >>from your Inbox whether I called you BIll, Paul, Wpaul, or >>OMisterWizard! >> >> > >He's just got too many first names. >Like you. >And me. [I've got *three* names that can be first *or* last, and >that's not even counting the fact that I also answer to my wife's last >name...] > > Well, everybody has some problem. Like in first grade when I was "Kevin Kissy" to all the girls. But I think my sister, Karalyn Kaye, was a lil' worse off whenever we went to see Gramma in the Deep South. She got smarter and quit wearing her monogrammed sweaters... I suppose I never appreciate the difficulties of "two first names", although in recent years I've seen a number of very young girls with my last name as their first name. Heck, in the unfortunate circumstance that my wife buys the farm first, I might marry one of 'em ... ;-) For whatever the original subject was about, I appreciate the fact that Bill Paul has some "Unix-fu". I've a lot of rl(4)'s lying around, for starters.... Kevin (D.) Kinsey From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 17 22:57:09 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B642816A4CE for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 22:57:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from VARK.MIT.EDU (VARK.MIT.EDU [18.95.3.179]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2679043D67 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 22:57:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from VARK.MIT.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by VARK.MIT.EDU (8.13.3/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HMr2fe055691; Tue, 17 May 2005 18:53:02 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from das@localhost) by VARK.MIT.EDU (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j4HMr27g055690; Tue, 17 May 2005 18:53:02 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 18:53:02 -0400 From: David Schultz To: Garrett Wollman Message-ID: <20050517225302.GA55476@VARK.MIT.EDU> Mail-Followup-To: Garrett Wollman , Poul-Henning Kamp , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <245f0df105051318564b1ffb6b@mail.gmail.com> <94145.1116037219@critter.freebsd.dk> <17029.25466.587442.577866@khavrinen.csail.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <17029.25466.587442.577866@khavrinen.csail.mit.edu> cc: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Security Advisory FreeBSD-SA-05:09.htt [REVISED] X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 22:57:09 -0000 On Fri, May 13, 2005, Garrett Wollman wrote: > < said: > > > The political problem is that if all operating systems do that, > > Intel has a pretty dud feature on their hands, and they are not > > particularly eager to accept that fact. > > Intel already had a pretty dud feature on their hands; just ask anyone > in the architecture community (probably including those who work for > Intel). Pentium 4 CPUs simply don't have enough I/O bandwidth to > maintain two simultaneous, independent instruction streams. The value > to the feature can't be realized until you have enough cache (in both > size and bandwidth) to be able to partition it among logical CPUs in > exactly the manner that Colin has suggested. (The fundamental problem > in computer architecture for the past several years has been how to > deal with the fact that gates are cheap and easy to make, but wires -- > particularly external I/O wires -- are expensive and hard.) > > The only way to get full performance out of an HTT processor today is > for both threads to be running out of L1 cache. Multimedia and > numerical benchmarks are often parallelizable in this way (assuming > the OS provides gang scheduling); general-purpose applications rarely > are. That's true, but SMT wasn't designed to double performance. It can still be advantageous even when the bottleneck is I/O because a single thread typically cannot make use of all available memory bandwidth. This is particularly the case with OS kernels and databases, which spend large amounts of time chasing pointers around. SMT allows the processor to perform useful work while one thread is blocked on a cache miss. Yes, if there isn't enough I/O bandwidth, chances are the second thread will eventually block, too. However, by the time the first thread unblocks, the processor will already have a new address to put on the bus, rather than leaving the memory bus idle while the first thread generates the next address. Of course, SMT works even better if one of the threads can operate out of cache. Admittedly, there are other downsides that hurt performance or detract from the above argument. Added complexity, false sharing, write buffers, additional context switch expense, etc., are a few things that come to mind. I don't know how all the tradeoffs work out for Intel's particular SMT implementation. But the fact that HTT doesn't work well doesn't mean that the idea can't work. After all, SMT wasn't designed to solve I/O bottlenecks; it was designed to address the problem that there are still millions of idle transistors on chips these days even after extracting all possible parallelism from a single instruction stream. Personally, I'm betting on multi-core chips, which address some of the same problems with a different set of tradeoffs, but I wouldn't be surprised to see hybrids of the two. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 20 13:37:48 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3179B16A4CE for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 13:37:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from aiolos.otenet.gr (aiolos.otenet.gr [195.170.0.23]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3EFC43D9F for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 13:37:45 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from orion.daedalusnetworks.priv (aris.bedc.ondsl.gr [62.103.39.226])j4KDbblU006121; Fri, 20 May 2005 16:37:39 +0300 Received: from orion.daedalusnetworks.priv (orion [127.0.0.1]) j4KDbaXj089207; Fri, 20 May 2005 16:37:36 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: (from keramida@localhost)j4KDbYJ6089206; Fri, 20 May 2005 16:37:34 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 16:37:34 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Tony Shadwick Message-ID: <20050520133734.GA89174@orion.daedalusnetworks.priv> References: <003601c55c99$7b756510$3400a8c0@visionpayments.com> <200505200310.14985.list-freebsd-2004@morbius.sent.com> <20050520073838.C39659@mail.goinet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050520073838.C39659@mail.goinet.com> cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pine X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 13:37:48 -0000 On 2005-05-20 07:41, Tony Shadwick wrote: > Granted, an argument could be made that you should read the handbook > cover to cover before you begin. ;) Who actually DOES that though? I did, at least once. A printed copy of the 2.2.8 Handbook can still be found in one of my shelves at home. That hardcopy was one of the biggest reasons why I installed FreeBSD the first time :-) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 20 13:44:17 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 897BC16A4CE for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 13:44:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from sccmmhc92.asp.att.net (sccmmhc92.asp.att.net [204.127.203.212]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0589843D49 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 13:44:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from josh@tcbug.org) Received: from [192.168.0.3] (12-218-17-195.client.mchsi.com[12.218.17.195]) by sccmmhc92.asp.att.net (sccmmhc92) with ESMTP id <20050520134415m9200ge1g8e>; Fri, 20 May 2005 13:44:16 +0000 From: Josh Paetzel To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 08:44:14 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <003601c55c99$7b756510$3400a8c0@visionpayments.com> <20050520073838.C39659@mail.goinet.com> <20050520133734.GA89174@orion.daedalusnetworks.priv> In-Reply-To: <20050520133734.GA89174@orion.daedalusnetworks.priv> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200505200844.14565.josh@tcbug.org> cc: Giorgos Keramidas cc: Tony Shadwick Subject: Re: Pine X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 13:44:17 -0000 On Friday 20 May 2005 08:37, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > On 2005-05-20 07:41, Tony Shadwick wrote: > > Granted, an argument could be made that you should read the > > handbook cover to cover before you begin. ;) Who actually DOES > > that though? > > I did, at least once. > > A printed copy of the 2.2.8 Handbook can still be found in one of > my shelves at home. That hardcopy was one of the biggest reasons > why I installed FreeBSD the first time :-) > Of course the 2.2.8 handbook was quite a bit shorter than today's version. ;) -- Thanks, Josh Paetzel From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 20 14:57:58 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D80A16A4CE for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 14:57:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from aiolos.otenet.gr (aiolos.otenet.gr [195.170.0.23]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0080B43D5E for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 14:57:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from kane.otenet.gr (kane.otenet.gr [195.170.0.27]) j4KEvriw014565; Fri, 20 May 2005 17:57:53 +0300 Received: from orion.daedalusnetworks.priv (aris.bedc.ondsl.gr [62.103.39.226])j4KEu3k9012050; Fri, 20 May 2005 17:56:04 +0300 Received: from orion.daedalusnetworks.priv (orion [127.0.0.1]) j4KEvqXr089683; Fri, 20 May 2005 17:57:52 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: (from keramida@localhost)j4KEvpao089682; Fri, 20 May 2005 17:57:51 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 17:57:51 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Josh Paetzel Message-ID: <20050520145751.GA89626@orion.daedalusnetworks.priv> References: <003601c55c99$7b756510$3400a8c0@visionpayments.com> <20050520073838.C39659@mail.goinet.com> <20050520133734.GA89174@orion.daedalusnetworks.priv> <200505200844.14565.josh@tcbug.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200505200844.14565.josh@tcbug.org> cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org cc: Tony Shadwick Subject: Re: Pine X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 14:57:58 -0000 On 2005-05-20 08:44, Josh Paetzel wrote: >On Friday 20 May 2005 08:37, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: >> On 2005-05-20 07:41, Tony Shadwick wrote: >> > Granted, an argument could be made that you should read the >> > handbook cover to cover before you begin. ;) Who actually DOES >> > that though? >> >> I did, at least once. >> >> A printed copy of the 2.2.8 Handbook can still be found in one of >> my shelves at home. That hardcopy was one of the biggest reasons >> why I installed FreeBSD the first time :-) > > Of course the 2.2.8 handbook was quite a bit shorter than today's > version. ;) Heheh... Yeah, this is definitely true! From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 21 07:13:07 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DE4816A4CE for ; Sat, 21 May 2005 07:13:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.192]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC0E343DA5 for ; Sat, 21 May 2005 07:13:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from leafy7382@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 9so1575102nzo for ; Sat, 21 May 2005 00:13:06 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=BDCskTLJvbga8vJknS3Lo9M0LdlDdAqS0ut6D/SBdVarG6xR+SoScHZz7GUfy4td9PCPu5GNW4V+GTm/SP44cr3PP2D+Ls7LkeMtMSIbDSQF9ihJRQ0qvngFAD9ztyJbybO0zwsfsruV/6KBx75V+i6ezAjSZzy7/U6cynUUW0c= Received: by 10.36.42.13 with SMTP id p13mr1020274nzp; Sat, 21 May 2005 00:13:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.89.16 with HTTP; Sat, 21 May 2005 00:13:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 15:13:06 +0800 From: Jiawei Ye To: "Julian H. Stacey" In-Reply-To: <200505210706.j4L764dD065277@fire.jhs.private> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <1288.172.16.0.199.1116620142.squirrel@172.16.0.1> <200505210706.j4L764dD065277@fire.jhs.private> cc: Mike Jakubik cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Alright you primitive screwheads, LISTEN UP!! X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Jiawei Ye List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 07:13:07 -0000 On 5/21/05, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > No moderator on current@ or stable@ > Cross posting Is forbidden. For precise wording: > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/eresourc= es.html#ERESOURCES-MAIL > The starter of this thread broke that rule, as did everyone > who replied to both lists (some doubtless by accident). > Postmaster@ for complaints of breach of rules. > - > Julian Stacey Net & Sys Eng Consultant, Munich http://berkli= x.com > Mail in Ascii (Html=3DSpam). Ihr Rauch =3D mein allergischer Kopfschmerz= . Let's just move it over to chat@ and keep the fun going :) yeah, we need that sometimes. Jiawei --=20 "Without the userland, the kernel is useless." --inspired by The Tao of Programming