From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Apr 18 22:21:13 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA06416 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 22:21:13 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA06359 ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 22:19:33 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 22:19:33 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199504190519.WAA06359@freefall.cdrom.com> To: fs, hackers, hardware Subject: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am about ready to let people hack at devfs. but one thing I'm not sure about: what is a good way for the devfs to appear? I personally favour something hierachical, such as: /devices/disks/sd0/all /devices/disks/sd0/FAT/all /* I suppose it could be called C: */ /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/all /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/a /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/b /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/c /devices/disks/sd0/99/all /* MACH but not recognised */ /devices/disks/sd0/DOSX/all /devices/disks/sd0/DOSX/A /devices/disks/sd0/DOSX/B /devices/disks/sd1/all /devices/disks/sd1/BSD/all /devices/disks/sd1/BSD/b /devices/disks/sd1/BSD/c /devices/disks/sd1/BSD/d /devices/disks/wd0/all /devices/disks/wd0/BSD/all /devices/disks/wd0/BSD/a but maybe the following might be as good: (same disk) (P=PARTITION, S=SLICE) /devices/sd0 /devices/sd0P0 /devices/sd0P1 /devices/sd0P1Sa /devices/sd0P1Sb /devices/sd0P1Sc /devices/sd0P2 /devices/sd0P3 /devices/sd0P3Sa /devices/sd0P3Sb /devices/sd1 /devices/sd1P0 /devices/sd1 /devices/sd1Sa /* no MBR? */ /devices/sd1Sb /devices/sd1Sc /devices/wd0 /devices/wd0P0Sa Whichever scheme is chosen, I expect a link (or symlink) from /devices/scsi/bus0/targ0/lun0/all->/devices/disks/sd0/all or something similar e.g. /devices/scsi/b0t0l0 -> ../../disks/sd0 (?) or /devices/scsi/b0t0l0_all hardlink to /devices/sd0 (?) /devices/scsi/b0t0l0_P0 hardlink to /devices/sd0P0 (?) /devices/scsi/b0t0l0_P1Sa hardlink to /devices/sd0P1Sa (?) remember: you can only hardlink devices not directories you can symlink anything but it takes a longer lookup sequence. (also symlinks are not supported yet) julian From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Apr 18 23:44:06 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA08614 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 23:44:06 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA08608 ; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 23:44:00 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA01137; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 23:41:25 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504190641.XAA01137@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: julian@freefall.cdrom.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 23:41:25 -0700 (PDT) Cc: fs@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, hardware@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504190519.WAA06359@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 18, 95 10:19:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2395 Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [Should this really be on 3 lists??? ] > > I am about ready to let people hack at devfs. > but one thing I'm not sure about: > > what is a good way for the devfs to appear? > > I personally favour something hierachical, > such as: I think you are confused about a few things, or at least from looking at this it leaves me confused:-(. > > /devices/disks/sd0/all Okay, that is the entire disk. > /devices/disks/sd0/FAT/all /* I suppose it could be called C: */ Ah, is that the FAT in slice 0 (DOS would call it partition 0, and it would *probably* be the C: drive). Or is this something else? You do realize there can be more than 1 primary FAT partition per volume, though DOS won't grok more than 1 primary active at a time. > /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/all == BSD/c??? And what happens when I have more than 1 BSD slice on a disk (this is one of the reasons for the slice code after all). > /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/a > /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/b > /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/c > /devices/disks/sd0/99/all /* MACH but not recognised */ > /devices/disks/sd0/DOSX/all > /devices/disks/sd0/DOSX/A > /devices/disks/sd0/DOSX/B Is this an extended partition? If so, extended partitions are not DOS specific. > > but maybe the following might be as good: (same disk) > (P=PARTITION, S=SLICE) I think you have transposed our definitions. A ``Slice'' is either one of the 4 primary MBR entries, or 1 of the 26 (is that the right number Bruce?) logical volumes in an extended MBR entry. > > /devices/sd0 > /devices/sd0P0 ... > /devices/wd0P0Sa > > > Whichever scheme is chosen, I expect a link (or symlink) from > /devices/scsi/bus0/targ0/lun0/all->/devices/disks/sd0/all > or something similar > e.g. > /devices/scsi/b0t0l0 -> ../../disks/sd0 (?) > or > /devices/scsi/b0t0l0_all hardlink to /devices/sd0 (?) > /devices/scsi/b0t0l0_P0 hardlink to /devices/sd0P0 (?) > /devices/scsi/b0t0l0_P1Sa hardlink to /devices/sd0P1Sa (?) And who creates these symlinks/hardlinks? And why do we need them? How much memory does all this devfs data structure take up? > remember: > you can only hardlink devices not directories > you can symlink anything but it takes a longer lookup sequence. > (also symlinks are not supported yet) :-(. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Apr 19 00:19:01 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA09141 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:19:01 -0700 Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA09135 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:19:00 -0700 Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14511(5)>; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:18:22 PDT Received: by crevenia.parc.xerox.com id <49864>; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:18:12 -0700 From: Bill Fenner To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: PCI plug-n-play on Intel Premiere Baby II? Cc: fenner@parc.xerox.com Message-Id: <95Apr19.001812pdt.49864@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:18:05 PDT Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just bought joe random PCI ethernet card, with a DEC 21040 chip on it. I already had an NCR 53810 with a "PCI interrupt jumper" on it, which allows the selection of PCI interrupt A through D. The NCR was jumpered to PCI interrupt A. When I plugged the ethernet card in, they got probed as follows: de0 int a irq 9 on pci0:6 reg20: virtual=0xf2925000 physical=0xc0000000 ncr0 int a irq 9 on pci0:14 reg20: virtual=0xf2926000 physical=0xc0001000 The SCSI probe hung while trying to scan the bus. Not horribly surprising. I changed the jumper on the NCR card to its interrupt B position. When I rebooted with this configuration, the probes looked *the*same* but the SCSI probe no longer hung. Any ideas what might be going on, or what I can do to make sure that these cards aren't going to interfere with each other when I start using the machine more heavily? Thanks, Bill From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Apr 19 00:40:03 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA10164 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:40:03 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA10151 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:39:59 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA01354; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:37:18 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504190737.AAA01354@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: PCI plug-n-play on Intel Premiere Baby II? To: fenner@parc.xerox.com (Bill Fenner) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 00:37:18 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, fenner@parc.xerox.com In-Reply-To: <95Apr19.001812pdt.49864@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> from "Bill Fenner" at Apr 19, 95 00:18:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2757 Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I pulled the subject line inside, as it is *important* to what I am about to say: Subject: PCI plug-n-play on Intel Premiere Baby II? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This board is also, I believe, called the Intel Plato card, check you user manual to see if it says Plato in it. > I just bought joe random PCI ethernet card, with a DEC 21040 chip on it. > I already had an NCR 53810 with a "PCI interrupt jumper" on it, which > allows the selection of PCI interrupt A through D. > > The NCR was jumpered to PCI interrupt A. When I plugged the ethernet card > in, they got probed as follows: > > de0 int a irq 9 on pci0:6 > reg20: virtual=0xf2925000 physical=0xc0000000 > ncr0 int a irq 9 on pci0:14 > reg20: virtual=0xf2926000 physical=0xc0001000 > > The SCSI probe hung while trying to scan the bus. Not horribly surprising. > > I changed the jumper on the NCR card to its interrupt B position. When I > rebooted with this configuration, the probes looked *the*same* but the > SCSI probe no longer hung. > > Any ideas what might be going on, or what I can do to make sure that these > cards aren't going to interfere with each other when I start using the > machine more heavily? What version of the BIOS does the motherboard have on it? Intel had some very brain dead ideas on this board when they did the BIOS. It will force any card using the same PCI interrupt signal (A, B, C or D) to use the same interrupt no mater what you do. They also left you with very little flexiability in what you could do to stop cards from sharing an interrupt. Your luck in that your cards are of different class (ie, one is storage, one is network). Setting them to use PCI A and PCI B works becuase the NCR driver falls back to polled mode (or at least I think it still does) if it does not see interrupts from the card. Basically this was one of the first PCI P54C-90 motherboards on the market and I talked it down then, and still tell people to avoid it if they can. I brought up the issue with the Intel BIOS author for this board, and he basically told me that the PCI spec allowed them to do it that way and if Unix or any other OS doesn't like things on the same interrupt, then that OS is not following the SPEC. (Which is true, but for performance reasons doing this and forcing the OS to do run time dispatch of interrupts is just silly). If you have set the jumper on the NCR card to interrupt B, this motherboard will never see the interrupt from that card as far as I can tell. > Thanks, > Bill -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Apr 19 06:05:10 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA18638 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 06:05:10 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA18627 ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 06:04:59 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id JAA04622; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:04:06 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504191304.JAA04622@hda.com> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: julian@freefall.cdrom.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:04:06 -0400 (EDT) Cc: fs@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, hardware@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504190519.WAA06359@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 18, 95 10:19:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2244 Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Julian Elischer writes: > > I am about ready to let people hack at devfs. > but one thing I'm not sure about: > > what is a good way for the devfs to appear? > > I personally favour something hierachical, > such as: I'd like to see an exact match of what we have now, a typical BSD view with a different prefix: > /devfs/rsd0a meaning if you really wanted to you can mount devfs on dev and continue on with no other changes. If you want a second funky hierarchy you could create it as a subdirectory such as: > /devfs/devs/rdisk/pa though I personally would be perfectly happy with the first, and if I were making up the rules I'd say a requirement is that devfs create something that looks just like what we have now. I don't like the idea of doing links to implement this; I think devfs should implement the device file system policy so that it is uniform. BTW: I hate mixed case but maybe others don't. (...) > e.g. > /devices/scsi/b0t0l0 -> ../../disks/sd0 (?) > or > /devices/scsi/b0t0l0_all hardlink to /devices/sd0 (?) > /devices/scsi/b0t0l0_P0 hardlink to /devices/sd0P0 (?) > /devices/scsi/b0t0l0_P1Sa hardlink to /devices/sd0P1Sa (?) I find this sort of odd. I'm not sure you ever care about partition 0 on the disk at B0T0L0, though you may want to access the device at B0T0L0 for general utilities. That is, I see a need for: > /devfs/rsd0a possibly AKA > /devfs/devs/rdisk/pa and for SCSI "device visiting" utilities (SCSICONF.EXE) possibly: > /dev/devs/scsi/b0/t0/l0 because then you can write the utility using opendir ... etc, but no really good reason for naming a partition of a disk accessed via the SCSI nexus. Aside: At the moment only the SCSI Target device needs the encoded SCSI nexus. And it does need it, there is no good work around. The support for all devices is still in there but conflicts with the slice code. I haven't decided if the support should be simply removed in the general case as something that we just don't need or kept in and made consistent with the slice code. I lean toward removing it. Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Apr 19 06:54:11 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA19643 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 06:54:11 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA19584 ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 06:52:36 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA22283 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Wed, 19 Apr 1995 08:19:15 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA14832; 19 Apr 95 07:40:07 CDT (Wed) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA14829; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 07:40:07 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504191240.HAA14829@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: julian@freefall.cdrom.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 07:40:06 -0500 (CDT) Cc: fs@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, hardware@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504190519.WAA06359@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 18, 95 10:19:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2396 Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I personally favour something hierachical, > such as: > /devices/disks/sd0/all > /devices/disks/sd0/FAT/all /* I suppose it could be called C: */ > /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/all > /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/a > /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/b > /devices/disks/sd0/BSD/c > /devices/disks/sd0/99/all /* MACH but not recognised */ > /devices/disks/sd0/DOSX/all > /devices/disks/sd0/DOSX/A > /devices/disks/sd0/DOSX/B > /devices/disks/sd1/all > /devices/disks/sd1/BSD/all > /devices/disks/sd1/BSD/b > /devices/disks/sd1/BSD/c > /devices/disks/sd1/BSD/d > /devices/disks/wd0/all > /devices/disks/wd0/BSD/all > /devices/disks/wd0/BSD/a First of all... you need two views of the same devices: sd0 is the first scsi disk c0t0l0 is the disk at scsi bus 0 target 0 lun 0 I don't see any reason in devfs to make these symlinks, since it's all virtual anyway... just have them both have the same major/minor. Secondly, is there a technical reason for separating wdn from sdn in the disk-only view? Finally, since you only show things that actually exist, there's not much point to a deep hierarchy. Sun's devfs uses a hierarchy and it's a pain... A little hierarchy to avoid /dev chaos with everything in one place, yes, but how about just two levels? (warning, this gets pretty blue sky towards the end...) Cooked: /devices/disk/d0 # whole first disk /devices/disk/d0s0 # first slice (dos, no parts) /devices/disk/d0s1 # second slice /devices/disk/d0s1p0 # second slice first partition /devices/disk/d0s1p1 # second slice second partition Raw: /devices/rdisk/d0 # whole first disk /devices/rdisk/d0s0 # first slice (dos, no parts) /devices/rdisk/d0s1 # second slice /devices/rdisk/d0s1p0 # second slice first partition /devices/rdisk/d0s1p1 # second slice second partition Tapes: /devices/tape/t0 # first tape /devices/ntape/t0 # first tape, no rewind Serial: /devices/tty/0 /devices/tty/1 /devices/tty/2 /devices/tty/3 /devices/tty/4 /devices/cua/0 # non-modem-control of course Pty: /devices/pty/0 .. nnnn # created as needed? Explicit: /devices/wd/c0d0 # first disk on first wd /devices/wd/c0d0s0 # ... /devices/scsi/c0t0l0 # first device on first SCSI... Now we get a bit fuzzy... what's the logical naming? /devices/sio/t3p0 # single port IRQ 3 /devices/sio/c3p0 # single port IRQ 3 non modem control /devices/sio/i10p0 # multiport card IRQ 10 ... From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Apr 19 10:22:54 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA24287 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 10:22:54 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA24280 ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 10:22:50 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA18992; Wed, 19 Apr 95 11:16:27 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504191716.AA18992@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: julian@freefall.cdrom.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 11:16:27 MDT Cc: fs@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, hardware@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504190519.WAA06359@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 18, 95 10:19:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I am about ready to let people hack at devfs. > but one thing I'm not sure about: > > what is a good way for the devfs to appear? /dev/dsk/... block disk /dev/rdsk/... raw disk /dev/tty/... tty device /dev/ttym/... modem control tty device /dev/ptm/... master pty /dev/pts/... slave pty /dev/con/... console (keyboard, mouse, display, sound) /dev/mem /dev/kmem /dev/null /dev/zero /dev/tty I'd suggest that there needs to be heirarchy at least to this point. Then there are compatability issues: /dev/icmp /dev/tcp /dev/udp /dev/spx /dev/ip /dev/ipx /dev/socksys /dev/fd096ds15 etc. These probably ought to be installed when the support modules for them are installed (either statically or dynmaically). For instance, the majority of the items in the immediately previous list are for IBCS2 support. The compatability devices that duplicate functionality (like /dev/fd096ds15) should be symbolic links to the "real" device. The ... entries should be handled on a case by case basis. Note that the heircy itself implies an additional selection mechanism that would have normally be handled by major # + minor # bits. The use of symbolic rather than hard links preserves this. Unless we want to change the lookup mechanism to include flags that can be modified by previous path component lookup mechanisms when it goes iterative, this limits the available heirarchy depth to 1 directory deep. As an aside, I *would* like to add the lookup recursion flags at some point to allow easy support of multiple name spaces for a single file (ie: DOS, MAC, OS/2, and UNIX names for each file) using the POSIX "//" escape mechanism, which can only be effective on subcomponents as a file system selector currently, and should be usable as a flag). I would suggest a secondary heirarchy on the disks of DOS partition; this should be an optional layer for non-DOS-aware platforms; this perhaps implies a seperate set of nodes for the floppy device, since on DOS boxes, the floppy does not have DOS partition tables. The console device as a seperate heirarchy is a nice abstraction. This is because it allows you to change directory ownership overall on login and the permissions on devices associated with the console "just change". It is likely that we will want symlinks from the /dev/tty directory into the console directory to unify the console/non-console name space. At this point, the two letter reporting limit is now a problem. It is likely that we will want a symlink for any device that does cannonical processing using the termios code into the tty directory. I suggest the following for a start: new old ----------------- ----------------- /dev/tty/00 /dev/tty00 /dev/tty/c0 /dev/cons0 etc. That's my first take on it anyway... Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Apr 19 10:26:45 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA24366 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 10:26:45 -0700 Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA24360 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 10:26:42 -0700 Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14413(5)>; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 10:26:02 PDT Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <49864>; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 10:25:57 -0700 To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: PCI plug-n-play on Intel Premiere Baby II? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Apr 95 00:37:18 PDT." <199504190737.AAA01354@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 10:25:54 PDT From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <95Apr19.102557pdt.49864@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504190737.AAA01354@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> you write: >This board is also, I believe, called the Intel Plato card, check you >user manual to see if it says Plato in it. It says "Plato?" in my handwriting on the cover =) The inside doesn't say much about anything... but that reminded me that the Plato bios upgrades that sometimes show up on wuarchive work, so... >What version of the BIOS does the motherboard have on it? I was using 1.00.10, I just upgraded to 1.00.12 and it doesn't look any different, either in the setup or in how it assigns interrupts. >They also left you with very little flexiability in what you could do >to stop cards from sharing an interrupt. I guess I just don't know enough about PCI, but I found it pretty odd that the NCR SCSI card still got int A even though it was jumpered to B. >Basically this was one of the first PCI P54C-90 motherboards on the market >and I talked it down then, and still tell people to avoid it if they can. Okay, so, at least I have a CPU, can you reccomend a nice replacement motherboard? (Preferably with built-in 2x16550 and parallel and floppy/ide since I only have one free slot right now...) >If you have set the jumper on the NCR card to interrupt B, this motherboard >will never see the interrupt from that card as far as I can tell. Sigh. I can't figure out how to tell if the NCR has fallen back to polling. Neither dmesg nor ncrcontrol seems to say. (although ncrcontrol -dp says 57 interrupts, implying that it might be getting interrupts -- or those might be de interrupts mis-dispatched, I guess) Bill From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Apr 19 11:02:41 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA24984 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:02:41 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA24978 ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:02:37 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA19153; Wed, 19 Apr 95 11:54:59 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504191754.AA19153@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: peter@bonkers.taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 11:54:59 MDT Cc: julian@freefall.cdrom.com, fs@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, hardware@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504191240.HAA14829@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Apr 19, 95 07:40:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I don't see any reason in devfs to make these symlinks, since it's all > virtual anyway... just have them both have the same major/minor. The reason for symlinks is to cannonize the access to the devices by heirarchy. This means that the same heirarchy is used for each access. The point in doing this is to embed some of the device information in the heirarchy itself. Typically, this would be what was formerly called the minor device number. > Secondly, is there a technical reason for separating wdn from sdn in the > disk-only view? I see a reason for seperation by controller instance, but not by controller type. The main issue in controller type is instance order to the BIOS to determine which disk we are booting from when we are booting from 0x83. I think this is totally irrelevant to the discussion of device creation. On the other hand, one could certainly desire to have direct access to the SCSI bus on a per target basis... although perhaps the same is true of EIDE. > Finally, since you only show things that actually exist, there's not much > point to a deep hierarchy. Sun's devfs uses a hierarchy and it's a pain... Again, it's useful to unclutter the top level directory AND to add a major number while still getting rid of specfs entirely. > A little hierarchy to avoid /dev chaos with everything in one place, yes, > but how about just two levels? I agree. You *can't* exceed two levels within the representational geometry anyway, since the only thing you are passed to resolve a path component is the directory vnode pointer of the previous path component and the path component to resolve. You can assume you are on /dev easily enough, which gives you a single selector. The only way around this would be adding an argument to the lookup that was a pointer to a long that could be modified by the called FS to generate context for looking up subsequent path components. Direct use of the context as a synthetic inode value (you could not use it for a vnode, since by then that vnode has been unlocked) yields only a single additional lookup depth. Anything beyond that would require that the long be used as a pointer to a file system specific context record. As I said in a previous post, I have every intention os using this mechanism some day anyway. [ ... blue sky ... ] I agree with most of this, but would suggest two digit naming to ensure place holders and to simplify the per device name generation. This admittedly results in a loss of 10 potential devices, but I think a distinction between a '07' and a '7' device would be confusing in and of itself anyway. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Apr 19 11:19:47 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA25264 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:19:47 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA25258 ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:19:46 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id LAA09420; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:19:33 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504191819.LAA09420@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:19:33 -0700 (PDT) Cc: peter@bonkers.taronga.com, julian@freefall.cdrom.com, fs@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, hardware@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9504191754.AA19153@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 19, 95 11:54:59 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 824 Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I don't see any reason in devfs to make these symlinks, since it's all > > virtual anyway... just have them both have the same major/minor. Part of the devfs conspiracys agenda is to abolish major/minors. They are a nuisance, a kludge, when you think about it. I expect (but this is not final) that a dev_t will become a pointer to a struct. Then the device-driver gets two fields to play with, to take the job of major/minors: struct devfs_entry { void * private_p; u_long private_l; ... }; typedef struct devfs_entry *dev_t; This means that we can get rid of the "struct foobar[NFOOBAR];" constructs in all the drivers... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Apr 19 11:26:33 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA25408 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:26:33 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA25396 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:26:27 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA02984; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:23:37 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504191823.LAA02984@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: PCI plug-n-play on Intel Premiere Baby II? To: fenner@parc.xerox.com (Bill Fenner) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:23:37 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <95Apr19.102557pdt.49864@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> from "Bill Fenner" at Apr 19, 95 10:25:54 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3016 Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > In message <199504190737.AAA01354@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> you write: > >This board is also, I believe, called the Intel Plato card, check you > >user manual to see if it says Plato in it. > > It says "Plato?" in my handwriting on the cover =) The inside doesn't say > much about anything... but that reminded me that the Plato bios upgrades that > sometimes show up on wuarchive work, so... > > >What version of the BIOS does the motherboard have on it? > > I was using 1.00.10, I just upgraded to 1.00.12 and it doesn't look any > different, either in the setup or in how it assigns interrupts. Okay, so we now know it is a Plato board, and you are at the latest BIOS revision as far as we can tell. This is good. > >They also left you with very little flexiability in what you could do > >to stop cards from sharing an interrupt. > > I guess I just don't know enough about PCI, but I found it pretty odd that > the NCR SCSI card still got int A even though it was jumpered to B. The motherboard BIOS is the final ruler here. It is the one that sets the PCI interrupt value register. Since your NCR controller has no BIOS on it there is no way for it to tell the motherboard BIOS to use interrupt B. (Unless you happen to have one of the Acculogic or other NCR based controllers with a BIOS chip on it). On boards using the Award BIOS you can set this in the PCI setup screen, Intel decided that this was not necessary, and that there code would be the ruler here. Allowed by PCI spec, done by Intel, but bad for the user :-(. > >Basically this was one of the first PCI P54C-90 motherboards on the market > >and I talked it down then, and still tell people to avoid it if they can. > > Okay, so, at least I have a CPU, can you reccomend a nice replacement > motherboard? (Preferably with built-in 2x16550 and parallel and floppy/ide > since I only have one free slot right now...) I thought that it was working for you? If you are running, and you are happy with the performance, so be it. As far as a recommendation, the ASUS PCI/I-P54TP4 is a good board (though I might be down grading that depending on some recent things told to me that I have yet to be able to verify). It has the built in ports, and dual EIDE channels. > > >If you have set the jumper on the NCR card to interrupt B, this motherboard > >will never see the interrupt from that card as far as I can tell. > > Sigh. I can't figure out how to tell if the NCR has fallen back to polling. > Neither dmesg nor ncrcontrol seems to say. (although ncrcontrol -dp says > 57 interrupts, implying that it might be getting interrupts -- or those might > be de interrupts mis-dispatched, I guess) What version of FreeBSD are you running? What does vmstat -i show? Though shared interrupts are not ideal, my understanding is that the PCI code in FreeBSD now deals with it. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Apr 19 19:45:30 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA11107 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:45:30 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA11085 ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:45:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: julian@freefall.cdrom.com (Julian Elischer), fs@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, hardware@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Apr 95 11:16:27 MDT." <9504191716.AA18992@cs.weber.edu> Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:45:10 -0700 Message-ID: <11084.798345910@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > /dev/dsk/... block disk > /dev/rdsk/... raw disk > /dev/tty/... tty device > /dev/ttym/... modem control tty device I like these.. > /dev/ptm/... master pty > /dev/pts/... slave pty I think these could be better named. /dev/pty/{m,s}/? > /dev/con/... console (keyboard, mouse, display, sound) I think the keyboard and display, maybe, but the mouse and sound? Hmmmm! I'd much prefer keeping /dev/audio and /dev/mouse "flat" since /dev/con is *not* the first location that would intuitively spring to mind if I were looking for them! At the very least, I'd expect /dev/sound/{midi,speaker,...} and /dev/mouse/{bus,serial,...} > /dev/mem > /dev/kmem > /dev/null > /dev/zero > /dev/tty All good. > Then there are compatability issues: > > /dev/icmp > /dev/tcp > /dev/udp > /dev/spx > /dev/ip > /dev/ipx > /dev/socksys > /dev/fd096ds15 > etc. /dev/net/ might also not be a bad hierarchy - there are enough of these that they probably need to be tucked down a level. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Apr 19 20:15:58 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA12139 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 20:15:58 -0700 Received: from RosedeLima.Vir.com (RosedeLima.Vir.com [199.84.154.65]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA12133 ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 20:15:55 -0700 Received: from ipdyne18.vir.com by Vir.com (8.6.10/2.0) id WAA14416; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 22:14:12 -0500 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 22:14:12 -0500 Message-Id: <199504200314.WAA14416@Vir.com> X-Sender: procecorjb@vir.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hardware@FreeBSD.org From: procecorjb@Vir.com (Robert Burns) Subject: Digiboard on FreeBsd Cc: info@FreeBSD.org Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does someone out there know how to setup freebsd to work with a PC/Xe - 8 port DigiBoard???? Robert Burns procecorjb@vir.com mtl,canada From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Apr 19 22:15:16 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA18229 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 22:15:16 -0700 Received: from zaphod (zaphod.ttu.ee [193.40.254.227]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA18223 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 1995 22:15:14 -0700 Received: from juku.li.ttu.ee by zaphod (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA02382; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:15:49 +0300 Received: by juku.li.ttu.ee (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA19017; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:13:57 +0300 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:13:57 +0300 From: tanel@juku.li.ttu.ee (Tanel Kuusk) Message-Id: <9504200513.AA19017@juku.li.ttu.ee> To: terry@cs.weber.edu, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! Cc: julian@freefall.cdrom.com, fs@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, hardware@freefall.cdrom.com X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > /dev/tty/... tty device > > /dev/ttym/... modem control tty device What about /dev/term/... and /dev/cua/... ? > > /dev/ptm/... master pty > > /dev/pts/... slave pty > > I think these could be better named. /dev/pty/{m,s}/? Well, /dev/pts/... is more like SVR4 does. BTW, are we talking about normal /dev here or something like Sun's /devices? Tanel From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Apr 20 10:38:49 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA03079 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:38:49 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA03072 ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 10:38:46 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA25502; Thu, 20 Apr 95 11:31:57 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504201731.AA25502@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: [DEVFS] your opinions sought! To: tanel@juku.li.ttu.ee (Tanel Kuusk) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 11:31:57 MDT Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, julian@freefall.cdrom.com, fs@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, hardware@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9504200513.AA19017@juku.li.ttu.ee> from "Tanel Kuusk" at Apr 20, 95 08:13:57 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > /dev/ptm/... master pty > > > /dev/pts/... slave pty > > > > I think these could be better named. /dev/pty/{m,s}/? > > Well, /dev/pts/... is more like SVR4 does. BTW, are we talking about normal > /dev here or something like Sun's /devices? Yes, it's more like SVR4. It's also more like AIX. The point in doing that is to allow dynamic cloning of the devices so that you eliminate the pty name change and size limit crap that has persisted on most systems and leads to ever more complex code in xterm and telnet and other places as machine get big enough to handle more than 16 PTY's, then more than 32, then.... Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Apr 20 12:17:43 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA06830 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 12:17:43 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA06823 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 12:17:38 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA06479; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 12:14:43 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504201914.MAA06479@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: PCI plug-n-play on Intel Premiere Baby II? To: ljo@po.CWRU.Edu Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 12:14:42 -0700 (PDT) Cc: fenner@parc.xerox.com, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504201743.MAA00831@amcell2.accumed.com> from "L Jonas Olsson" at Apr 20, 95 12:43:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3105 Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The Intel Premiere II (aka Plato) uses shared ISA interrupts if you > don't mark enough ISA interrupts as available (vs "used by ISA card") > in the plug and play subportion of the BIOS setup. > > I've used three PCI cards all at different IRQs on this board. > (video, frame grabber, and NCR810). That does indeed work, if the cards are of different class (I have forgotten a lot of the details about this card since I haven't touched one in almost a year). The real big problem comes in when you stick 2 of the same ``class'' cards in the machine, they will end up on the same IRQ. The ``class'' I am refuring to is one of storage (disk controller), network, memory, graphics, etc. This created a severve problem when I first updated wcarchive to a PCI board (it was infact a Plato), in that the 2 Bt946's ended up sharing the same interrupt. At that time FreeBSD did not have support for this :-(. I never did get it working with dual BT946's, and ended up using AHA1542CF's to get the damn thing back on line. From a recent converstation with David Greenman he has not been able to make it work with more than 2 PCI scsi controllers. I have since done a lot of testing here on 2 Neptune based boards and found they work okay with 2 controllers, but add that third one and your disks shall be scrambled like eggs :-(. > I'm more worried about the things Rod have said about multiple bus > masters. I plan to use this board with NCR810 and an Imaging > Technology bus-mastering PCI frame grabber. You should be fine there, that is only 2 masters. Don't try to add a third, it will cause you grief. To the point that it is almost impossible to go multiuser without a panic, and if you do get past that point expect some scambled disks as soon as you hit 3 masters at once. I am currently testing the ASUS PCI/I-P54TP4 board with 4 NCR810 controllers and I can *NOT* make the thing crash. Tonights test while I sleep will be 4 concurrent make worlds running on 4 disks in chroot trees. (I'm going to have to pull memory from other boxes to expand this thing and build 3 new chroot test disks so It might not get started tonight, but that is the target). I will be writting up a complete ``Accurate Automation Motherboard Evaluation Report'' on this board once I am finished with all of my testing. But so far it is a ``just works'' kind of card. I did have a reboot problem, but that was fixed by my posted patch to -current. > > PS I've succesfully used the BitFlow Raptor PCI frame grabber under > FreeBSD. This was all in user mode using /dev/io to read some PCI > BIOS variables (memory address and IRQ line) and /dev/mem to mmap > the registers and memory (8MB region). This is shared memory access > and the read speed is ~15.5MB/s on 90MHz Plato. Was that from a ``C'' program using bcopy, or hand optimized assembler? I have done concurrent disk I/O on PCI now in excess of 12MB/sec using 4 controllers :-). -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Apr 20 16:12:28 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA13336 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:12:28 -0700 Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA13329 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:12:26 -0700 Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14521(3)>; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:10:59 PDT Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <49864>; Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:10:51 -0700 X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6 4/19/95 To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: ljo@po.CWRU.Edu, fenner@parc.xerox.com, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: PCI plug-n-play on Intel Premiere Baby II? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Apr 95 12:14:42 PDT." <199504201914.MAA06479@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:10:36 PDT From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <95Apr20.161051pdt.49864@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504201914.MAA06479@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> you write: >> The Intel Premiere II (aka Plato) uses shared ISA interrupts if you >> don't mark enough ISA interrupts as available (vs "used by ISA card") >> in the plug and play subportion of the BIOS setup. I made two interrupts available (9 and 15). It assigns both my NCR810 and my DE21040 to interrupt A irq 9. I will try removing ed0 and snd4 to free up IRQ's 10 and 11, and see if having 4 interrupts available lets the BIOS assign two. Still confused, Bill