From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 5 01:48:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA29959 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 5 May 1996 01:48:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from doorstep.unety.net (root@usi-00-10.Naperville.unety.net [204.70.107.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA29880 Sun, 5 May 1996 01:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webster.unety.net (webster.unety.net [206.31.202.8]) by doorstep.unety.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA10255; Sun, 5 May 1996 03:41:40 -0500 Received: by webster.unety.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BB3A35.4772BC80@webster.unety.net>; Sun, 5 May 1996 03:45:18 -0500 Message-ID: <01BB3A35.4772BC80@webster.unety.net> From: Jim Fleming To: "'Jordan K. Hubbard'" Cc: "'freebsd-chat@freebsd.org'" , "FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: RE: IPv8 Tutorial #1: Minimal IPv8 hack Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 03:45:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sunday, May 05, 1996 3:35 AM, Jordan K. Hubbard[SMTP:jkh@time.cdrom.com] wrote: @ Can I call a time-out on the IPv8 discussion in -hackers, please? @ It's a very specialized topic and of very _narrow_ interest to most @ FreeBSD hackers, who will still be using IPv4 for the forseeable @ future (and no debate on the desirability of that, please!) @ @ I'm sure that this can be taken to private email with little or no @ degradation in the quality of the discussion, and certainly far fewer @ people screaming "aigh! shut up about IPv8 already, we beg of you!" @ @ Jordan @ @ Whatever you like...the dogs and cats can not be stopped... the dolphins are really cranking at this point...;-) Maybe freebsd-chat is a better group...??? -- Jim Fleming UNETY Systems, Inc. Naperville, IL e-mail: JimFleming@unety.net From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 5 02:16:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA04971 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 5 May 1996 02:16:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA04944 Sun, 5 May 1996 02:16:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id CAA06743; Sun, 5 May 1996 02:16:13 -0700 Message-Id: <199605050916.CAA06743@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Jim Fleming cc: "'Jordan K. Hubbard'" , "'freebsd-chat@freebsd.org'" , "FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: IPv8 Tutorial #1: Minimal IPv8 hack In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 May 1996 03:45:17 CDT." <01BB3A35.4772BC80@webster.unety.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 05 May 1996 02:16:13 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Sunday, May 05, 1996 3:35 AM, Jordan K. Hubbard[SMTP:jkh@time.cdrom.com] wrote: > @ Can I call a time-out on the IPv8 discussion in -hackers, please? > @ It's a very specialized topic and of very _narrow_ interest to most > @ FreeBSD hackers, who will still be using IPv4 for the forseeable > @ future (and no debate on the desirability of that, please!) > @ > @ I'm sure that this can be taken to private email with little or no > @ degradation in the quality of the discussion, and certainly far fewer > @ people screaming "aigh! shut up about IPv8 already, we beg of you!" > @ > @ Jordan > @ > @ > > Whatever you like...the dogs and cats can not be stopped... > the dolphins are really cranking at this point...;-) > > Maybe freebsd-chat is a better group...??? If the topic is technical in nature and it involves areas such as networking it belongs in the hackers list not in chat. I thought that the hackers's mailing list was dead today till the IPv8 posting so keep up the good work 8) Regards, Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 5 03:21:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA08352 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 5 May 1996 03:21:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA08347 Sun, 5 May 1996 03:21:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id MAA11708; Sun, 5 May 1996 12:21:02 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id MAA22684; Sun, 5 May 1996 12:21:01 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id MAA28081; Sun, 5 May 1996 12:17:40 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605051017.MAA28081@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: IPv8 Tutorial #1: Minimal IPv8 hack To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 12:17:39 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605050916.CAA06743@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at "May 5, 96 02:16:13 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > Maybe freebsd-chat is a better group...??? > > If the topic is technical in nature and it involves areas such as > networking it belongs in the hackers list not in chat. Neither of these groups. TAKE IT OUT IN PRIVATE MAIL (or in Usenet if you prefer). My inbox is already full enough. I'm not eager to get more of this. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 5 09:52:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA26553 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 5 May 1996 09:52:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tarsier.cv.nrao.edu (root@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA26547 for ; Sun, 5 May 1996 09:52:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from juphoff@localhost) by tarsier.cv.nrao.edu (8.6.13/$Revision: 2.7 $) id LAA07331; Sat, 4 May 1996 11:01:02 -0400 Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 11:01:02 -0400 Message-Id: <199605041501.LAA07331@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu> From: Jeff Uphoff To: Ollivier Robert Cc: chat@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Chat Mailing List), mmead@glock.com Subject: Re: [Forwarded e-mail from Alexander O. Yuriev] In-Reply-To: Your message of Sat, May 4, 1996 01:47:30 +0200 References: <199605032141.RAA04616@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu> <199605032347.BAA15351@keltia.freenix.fr> X-Spook: Special Forces unmarked bills class struggle X-Mailer: VM 5.95 (beta); GNU Emacs 19.29.1 X-Attribution: Up Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "OR" == Ollivier Robert writes: OR> It seems that Jeff Uphoff said: >> Whereas the little horned fellow wearing sneakers and carrying a cattle >> prod is serious? OR> Come on, even Linus himself admitted at a time he was a bit jealous OR> of our oh so cute mascot :-) I do seem to recall someone saying that he thought Linus was cuter though. (Wait...maybe the comparison was with Bill Gates and not the FreeBSDaemon...damn this early-age senility!) OR> What is silly in the other idea is having the penguin (or whatever OR> logo they want to take) knocking down Chuck. It is definitely the OR> spirit no one among Linuxers & BSDers should have. I know...I mailed a copy of it to Matt Mead--we good-naturedly pick on each other a fair bit about Linux & FreeBSD--and then he went and sent it to a FreeBSD mailing list. Bad Matt! Bad! (Then again, the message originally appeared on the linux-kernel list so it's not like it was a "secret" or anything....) OR> We -- FreeBSD and Linux -- are competitors but not enemies. That's OR> something I've never able to understand: raving Linux OR> fanatics. There are also BSD raving fanatics of course but as there OR> are more Linux fans, there are more fanatics too. True. *sigh* Sometimes I think the Linux community has gotten a bit big for my tastes now. (I especially feel this way when I look at the size of my security mailing lists for Linux. *Way* too big....) --Up. -- Jeff Uphoff - systems/network admin. | juphoff@nrao.edu National Radio Astronomy Observatory | juphoff@bofh.org.uk Charlottesville, VA, USA | jeff.uphoff@linux.org PGP key available at: http://www.cv.nrao.edu/~juphoff/ From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 5 21:53:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA08282 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 5 May 1996 21:53:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from neon.Glock.COM (neon.glock.com [198.82.228.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA08276 for ; Sun, 5 May 1996 21:53:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mmead@localhost) by neon.Glock.COM (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA20489; Mon, 6 May 1996 00:53:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199605060453.AAA20489@neon.Glock.COM> Subject: Re: [Forwarded e-mail from Alexander O. Yuriev] To: juphoff@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu (Jeff Uphoff) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 00:52:59 -0400 (EDT) Cc: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, chat@freebsd.org, pmurphy@nrao.edu In-Reply-To: <199605041501.LAA07331@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu> from "Jeff Uphoff" at May 4, 96 11:01:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jeff Uphoff writes: > "OR" == Ollivier Robert writes: > OR> It seems that Jeff Uphoff said: > >> Whereas the little horned fellow wearing sneakers and carrying a cattle > >> prod is serious? > OR> Come on, even Linus himself admitted at a time he was a bit jealous > OR> of our oh so cute mascot :-) > I do seem to recall someone saying that he thought Linus was cuter > though. > (Wait...maybe the comparison was with Bill Gates and not the > FreeBSDaemon...damn this early-age senility!) I think it was a comparison to Bill Gates... I seem to recall being forwarded that too... :-) > OR> What is silly in the other idea is having the penguin (or whatever > OR> logo they want to take) knocking down Chuck. It is definitely the > OR> spirit no one among Linuxers & BSDers should have. > I know...I mailed a copy of it to Matt Mead--we good-naturedly pick on > each other a fair bit about Linux & FreeBSD--and then he went and sent > it to a FreeBSD mailing list. Bad Matt! Bad! (Then again, the message > originally appeared on the linux-kernel list so it's not like it was a > "secret" or anything....) Awwww, come on! I had to! The FreeBSD chat mailing list exists for such general chat and frivolous posting purposes! > OR> We -- FreeBSD and Linux -- are competitors but not enemies. That's > OR> something I've never able to understand: raving Linux > OR> fanatics. There are also BSD raving fanatics of course but as there > OR> are more Linux fans, there are more fanatics too. I don't get that either. I usually tell people I recommend FreeBSD because of certain things, but then tell them if there are certain other things they want to do or don't want to wait for, they should stick with Linux. Most people end up installing what most of their friends have anyway, which, around here these days, tends to be Linux. You gotta go with your strongest peer support network. > True. *sigh* Sometimes I think the Linux community has gotten a bit big > for my tastes now. (I especially feel this way when I look at the size > of my security mailing lists for Linux. *Way* too big....) And I thought Pat was running up the mailq's. Hehe. He's told me horror stories about yours. -matt -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@Glock.COM http://www.Glock.COM/~mmead/ From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 6 00:20:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA17421 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 May 1996 00:20:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA17409 Mon, 6 May 1996 00:20:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA12338; Mon, 6 May 1996 09:20:35 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA03259; Mon, 6 May 1996 09:20:34 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA05238; Mon, 6 May 1996 09:13:58 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605060713.JAA05238@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.sbin/adduser adduser.perl To: gclarkii@freefall.freebsd.org (Gary Clark II) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 09:13:57 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605060615.XAA15048@freefall.freebsd.org> from Gary Clark II at "May 5, 96 11:15:21 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Gary Clark II wrote: > Modified: usr.sbin/adduser adduser.perl > Log: > We DON'T ship bash by default, why is it the default shell? > We also don't ship tcsh or ksh by default. > Correct these two things to make sh the default and increase csh and sh ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > to be higher priority. sh? sh? You really mean this d*mned Bourne-alike shell? Hey, we are BSD! Bill Joy has been inventing the C-Shell just for us! :-) (Moved to -chat, of course.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 6 01:50:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA22619 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 May 1996 01:50:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from main.gbdata.com (dial90.phoenix.net [205.241.121.104]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA22610 for ; Mon, 6 May 1996 01:50:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by main.gbdata.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id DAA18246 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 6 May 1996 03:51:07 -0500 From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199605060851.DAA18246@main.gbdata.com> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.sbin/adduser adduser.perl To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 03:51:05 -0500 (CDT) Reply-To: gclarkii@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605060713.JAA05238@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at May 6, 96 09:13:57 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch wrote: > > As Gary Clark II wrote: > > > Modified: usr.sbin/adduser adduser.perl > > Log: > > We DON'T ship bash by default, why is it the default shell? > > We also don't ship tcsh or ksh by default. > > Correct these two things to make sh the default and increase csh and sh > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > to be higher priority. > > sh? sh? You really mean this d*mned Bourne-alike shell? Well he had BASH!! I mean we CAN change it again...:) > > Hey, we are BSD! Bill Joy has been inventing the C-Shell just for us! > > :-) > > (Moved to -chat, of course.) > > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | I speak only for myself and "maybe" my company gclarkii@GBData.COM | Member of the FreeBSD Doc Team Providing Internet and ISP startups mail info@GBData.COM for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/docs/freebsd-faq.ascii From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 6 05:42:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA09659 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 May 1996 05:42:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA09654 for ; Mon, 6 May 1996 05:42:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thurston.eng.umd.edu (thurston.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.206]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA19088 for ; Mon, 6 May 1996 08:42:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by thurston.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA25815; Mon, 6 May 1996 08:42:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 08:42:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@thurston.eng.umd.edu To: FreeBSD-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: internationalization Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have watched folks (like Andrey) making all the changes for international character set stuff, but without much understanding of what they're doing. I just saw a faq show up in comp.windows.x that I think other folks might be interested in. It's all about ISO-8859 usage, and internationalization. If you can't get a copy from usenet, I'm going to hold one here for a week (on my University account, where memory space is a little precious), and if anyone asks me to mail a copy (76k in size) I will. It looks interesting! ========================================================================== Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu, I run FreeBSD-current on n3lxx + Journey2 Three Accounts for the Super-users in the sky, Seven for the Operators in their halls of fame, Nine for Ordinary Users doomed to crie, One for the Illegal Cracker with his evil game In the Domains of Internet where the data lie. One Account to rule them all, One Account to watch them, One Account to make them all and in the network bind them. From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 6 06:06:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA10946 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 May 1996 06:06:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tarsier.cv.nrao.edu (juphoff@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA10940 for ; Mon, 6 May 1996 06:06:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from juphoff@localhost) by tarsier.cv.nrao.edu (8.6.13/$Revision: 2.7 $) id JAA05982; Mon, 6 May 1996 09:06:51 -0400 Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 09:06:51 -0400 Message-Id: <199605061306.JAA05982@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu> From: Jeff Uphoff To: "matthew c. mead" Cc: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, chat@freebsd.org, pmurphy@nrao.edu Subject: Re: [Forwarded e-mail from Alexander O. Yuriev] In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, May 6, 1996 00:52:59 -0400 References: <199605041501.LAA07331@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu> <199605060453.AAA20489@neon.Glock.COM> X-Spook: militia ACLU weapons X-Mailer: VM 5.95 (beta); GNU Emacs 19.29.1 X-Attribution: Up Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "mcm" == matthew c mead writes: mcm> I think it was a comparison to Bill Gates... I seem to mcm> recall being forwarded that too... :-) There must be two then; I just found this one in one of my quotes files: "I think Linus is cuter than that stupid thing with the pitch-fork." I won't attribute the quote since I don't want to get that person into hot water too (he's one of the well-known Linux hackers). :)~ mcm> Awwww, come on! I had to! The FreeBSD chat mailing list mcm> exists for such general chat and frivolous posting purposes! Sounds like the linux-kernel list sometimes; I've seen higher valid content ratios on IRC channels. mcm> I don't get that either. I usually tell people I mcm> recommend FreeBSD because of certain things, but then tell them mcm> if there are certain other things they want to do or don't want mcm> to wait for, they should stick with Linux. Most people end up mcm> installing what most of their friends have anyway, which, around mcm> here these days, tends to be Linux. You gotta go with your mcm> strongest peer support network. 100% agreed. If someone is fairly new to UNIX, I usually recommend Linux to them since they'll normally have an easier time finding friends that can help them, and there are a *lot* of Linux books (though only a few really good ones) available at most decent bookstores now. There's also Red Hat, which makes installation, admin., and upgrading a relative breeze. (When I recommend Linux I usually recommend Red Hat.) If they're already UNIX veterans, I'll normally recommend that they try both OS's and then stick with the one they like better. (Personally, I tried 386BSD before trying Linux since I was already a SunOS user....) One nice thing about the FreeBSD world is that it has one "distribution" so the confusion factor is often a great deal lower; there're no "which FreeBSD should I try?" type questions.... mcm> And I thought Pat was running up the mailq's. Hehe. mcm> He's told me horror stories about yours. I've done `mailq | wc -l` before and seen numbers well into the tens of thousands before.... --Up. -- Jeff Uphoff - systems/network admin. | juphoff@nrao.edu National Radio Astronomy Observatory | juphoff@bofh.org.uk Charlottesville, VA, USA | jeff.uphoff@linux.org PGP key available at: http://www.cv.nrao.edu/~juphoff/ From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 6 07:39:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA16789 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 May 1996 07:39:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from neon.Glock.COM (neon.glock.com [198.82.228.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA16779 for ; Mon, 6 May 1996 07:39:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mmead@localhost) by neon.Glock.COM (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA04427; Mon, 6 May 1996 10:39:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199605061439.KAA04427@neon.Glock.COM> Subject: Re: [Forwarded e-mail from Alexander O. Yuriev] To: juphoff@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu (Jeff Uphoff) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:39:06 -0400 (EDT) Cc: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, chat@freebsd.org, pmurphy@nrao.edu In-Reply-To: <199605061306.JAA05982@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu> from "Jeff Uphoff" at May 6, 96 09:06:51 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jeff Uphoff writes: > "mcm" == matthew c mead writes: > mcm> I think it was a comparison to Bill Gates... I seem to > mcm> recall being forwarded that too... :-) > There must be two then; I just found this one in one of my quotes files: > "I think Linus is cuter than that stupid thing with the pitch-fork." > > I won't attribute the quote since I don't want to get that person into > hot water too (he's one of the well-known Linux hackers). :)~ Hehe! I think I might have been mistaken as I can't find it in my folder containing correspondence with you. Maybe you just told it to me on the phone or something - it seems damn familiar. > mcm> Awwww, come on! I had to! The FreeBSD chat mailing list > mcm> exists for such general chat and frivolous posting purposes! > Sounds like the linux-kernel list sometimes; I've seen higher valid > content ratios on IRC channels. Is it not moderated? > mcm> I don't get that either. I usually tell people I > mcm> recommend FreeBSD because of certain things, but then tell them > mcm> if there are certain other things they want to do or don't want > mcm> to wait for, they should stick with Linux. Most people end up > mcm> installing what most of their friends have anyway, which, around > mcm> here these days, tends to be Linux. You gotta go with your > mcm> strongest peer support network. > 100% agreed. > If someone is fairly new to UNIX, I usually recommend Linux to them > since they'll normally have an easier time finding friends that can help > them, and there are a *lot* of Linux books (though only a few really > good ones) available at most decent bookstores now. There's also Red > Hat, which makes installation, admin., and upgrading a relative breeze. > (When I recommend Linux I usually recommend Red Hat.) > If they're already UNIX veterans, I'll normally recommend that they try > both OS's and then stick with the one they like better. (Personally, I > tried 386BSD before trying Linux since I was already a SunOS user....) I ran linux for a couple months back when it was .96p8 - back when you had to build your own distribution. I got sick of not having a true slip connection and switched to good old 386bsd 0.0. I actually ran that for over a year before I switched back to linux when its slip was fairly decent. Once I finally got sick of linux again, I switched to FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 and haven't switched since... :-) > One nice thing about the FreeBSD world is that it has one "distribution" > so the confusion factor is often a great deal lower; there're no "which > FreeBSD should I try?" type questions.... IMHO, that's one of the most compelling reasons to use FreeBSD. > mcm> And I thought Pat was running up the mailq's. Hehe. > mcm> He's told me horror stories about yours. > I've done `mailq | wc -l` before and seen numbers well into the tens of > thousands before.... Anyone know offhand what the mailq on freefall looks like? :-) -matt -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@Glock.COM http://www.Glock.COM/~mmead/ From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 6 14:42:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA12055 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 May 1996 14:42:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA12045 for ; Mon, 6 May 1996 14:41:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id XAA08997 ; Mon, 6 May 1996 23:41:47 +0200 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id XAA08972 ; Mon, 6 May 1996 23:41:57 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.5/keltia-uucp-2.7) id TAA26026; Mon, 6 May 1996 19:54:32 +0200 (MET DST) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199605061754.TAA26026@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: [Forwarded e-mail from Alexander O. Yuriev] To: mmead@Glock.COM (matthew c. mead) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 19:54:32 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: juphoff@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu, chat@freebsd.org, pmurphy@nrao.edu In-Reply-To: <199605061439.KAA04427@neon.Glock.COM> from "matthew c. mead" at "May 6, 96 10:39:06 am" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1948 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL16 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that matthew c. mead said: > Anyone know offhand what the mailq on freefall looks > like? :-) We're cheating on freefall :-) There are at least 4 different levels of queuing (based on how much time the mail takes to deliver) and there are some national mail exploders (.de, .fr and .au for example). Both helped a lot reducing the mail load... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #14: Tue Apr 30 21:08:35 MET DST 1996 From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 6 15:04:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA13499 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 May 1996 15:04:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA13487 for ; Mon, 6 May 1996 15:04:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id AAA17579; Tue, 7 May 1996 00:03:33 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA08846; Tue, 7 May 1996 00:03:32 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA06756; Tue, 7 May 1996 00:00:56 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605062200.AAA06756@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: [Forwarded e-mail from Alexander O. Yuriev] To: chat@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 00:00:55 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: juphoff@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu, pmurphy@nrao.edu Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605061439.KAA04427@neon.Glock.COM> from "matthew c. mead" at "May 6, 96 10:39:06 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As matthew c. mead wrote: > > I've done `mailq | wc -l` before and seen numbers well into the tens of > > thousands before.... > > Anyone know offhand what the mailq on freefall looks > like? :-) I think it has shrunk allot since we've been starting to install mail relays all over the world. Several large domains (including most of Europe) are offloaded from freefall to local MX forwarder systems. So freefall can feed them in a single TCP channel. FreeBSD.ORG's own DNS namespace did really come handy for this kind of work. :-) (Most of the forwarders are registered as mail.XX.freebsd.org or mail-relay.XX.freebsd.org.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 6 17:23:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA19642 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 May 1996 17:23:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.hsc.wvu.edu (www.hsc.wvu.edu [157.182.98.68]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA19637 for ; Mon, 6 May 1996 17:23:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jsigmon@localhost) by www.hsc.wvu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA12700; Mon, 6 May 1996 20:24:07 -0400 Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 20:24:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeremy Sigmon To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: MBONE and FreeBSD Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have been asked by my boss to look into a product for audio/visual communication over the internet. This would be used for feedback from a distance education project. Would the MBone be useful for this or what technologies do you suggest? Thanks, From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 6 17:56:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA20762 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 May 1996 17:56:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA20757 for ; Mon, 6 May 1996 17:56:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA00697; Mon, 6 May 1996 17:56:04 -0700 Message-Id: <199605070056.RAA00697@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Jeremy Sigmon cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: MBONE and FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 May 1996 20:24:06 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 17:56:04 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I have been asked by my boss to look into a product for audio/visual > communication over the internet. This would be used for feedback > from a distance education project. Would the MBone be useful for > this or what technologies do you suggest? > Thanks, > It depends on much bandwith you are talking about if you have 256kb/sec then you are in business . At any rate, you can try out vic/vat/sdr/wb all available on my ftp site: ftp://rah.star-gate.com/pub Enjoy, Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 6 17:59:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA20804 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 May 1996 17:59:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.hsc.wvu.edu (www.hsc.wvu.edu [157.182.98.68]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA20799 for ; Mon, 6 May 1996 17:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jsigmon@localhost) by www.hsc.wvu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA00196; Mon, 6 May 1996 21:00:06 -0400 Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 21:00:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeremy Sigmon To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Mailer packages.... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Anyone recommend any good mail filtering packages? I am currently using Pine, but I would like to have my incoming mail sorted. (Especially these groups ;-} ). Anyone have any suggestions? Some idea of how much trouble they are to install would also be helpful. Thanks From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 6 18:06:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA21191 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 May 1996 18:06:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.hsc.wvu.edu (www.hsc.wvu.edu [157.182.98.68]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA21186 for ; Mon, 6 May 1996 18:06:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jsigmon@localhost) by www.hsc.wvu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA00213; Mon, 6 May 1996 21:06:57 -0400 Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 21:06:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeremy Sigmon To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: MBONE and FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199605070056.RAA00697@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I believe I have enough bandwidth, but it is more of a configuraton question that I have. I have a few of the products you speak of, but I don't have mrouted setup. Without this I don't believe I can get vic to work. I am talking with our telecommunications people to see if they will setup the router to support multicasting. I think it is a CISCO 7000. I believe our internet connection heirarchy goes as follows: SuraNET=>BNNPlanet=>WVNET=>us I believe the first two support multicasting, but I don't know about the last two. Thanks alot for your input. Jeremy On Mon, 6 May 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > > > I have been asked by my boss to look into a product for audio/visual > > communication over the internet. This would be used for feedback > > from a distance education project. Would the MBone be useful for > > this or what technologies do you suggest? > > Thanks, > > > > It depends on much bandwith you are talking about if you have > 256kb/sec then you are in business . > > At any rate, you can try out vic/vat/sdr/wb all available on > my ftp site: > ftp://rah.star-gate.com/pub > > Enjoy, > Amancio > > > From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 6 18:14:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA21742 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 May 1996 18:14:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA21735 for ; Mon, 6 May 1996 18:14:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA00857; Mon, 6 May 1996 18:14:06 -0700 Message-Id: <199605070114.SAA00857@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Jeremy Sigmon cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: MBONE and FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 May 1996 21:06:57 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 18:14:06 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It is easy to setup if you have decent OS which supports ip multicast. You can setup a tunnel between your site and the target site. For instance, this my /etc/mrouted.conf tunnel 204.188.121.18 140.174.2.1 metric 1 Now the other side has a similar line however it has the ip addresses swap. The targetted lans can route ip multicast packets as for the ISPs not necessaryly supporting ip multicast it does not really matter because the tunnel concept was created with this scenario in mind. In other words, what I am suggesting works. Regards, Amancio > > I believe I have enough bandwidth, but it is more of a configuraton > question that I have. I have a few of the products you speak of, but > I don't have mrouted setup. Without this I don't believe I can get > vic to work. I am talking with our telecommunications people to > see if they will setup the router to support multicasting. I think it > is a CISCO 7000. I believe our internet connection heirarchy goes > as follows: SuraNET=>BNNPlanet=>WVNET=>us > I believe the first two support multicasting, but I don't know > about the last two. Thanks alot for your input. > Jeremy > > On Mon, 6 May 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > > > > > > I have been asked by my boss to look into a product for audio/visual > > > communication over the internet. This would be used for feedback > > > from a distance education project. Would the MBone be useful for > > > this or what technologies do you suggest? > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > It depends on much bandwith you are talking about if you have > > 256kb/sec then you are in business . > > > > At any rate, you can try out vic/vat/sdr/wb all available on > > my ftp site: > > ftp://rah.star-gate.com/pub > > > > Enjoy, > > Amancio > > > > > > From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 6 18:18:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA22097 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 May 1996 18:18:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA22087 for ; Mon, 6 May 1996 18:18:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA00879; Mon, 6 May 1996 18:17:40 -0700 Message-Id: <199605070117.SAA00879@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Jeremy Sigmon cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mailer packages.... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 May 1996 21:00:06 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 18:17:39 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I use exmh+glimpse+metamail+pgp exmh allows sorting by date, author or subject. It is easy to setup , etc.. glimpse allows me to search all my mail or on a per folder basis. metamail for handling mime pgp for privacy 8) All of the above with the exception of exmh can be found in the freebsd ports are. If you are still interested just send me private e-mail Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 6 18:40:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA25874 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 May 1996 18:40:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA25863 for ; Mon, 6 May 1996 18:40:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA19632; Mon, 6 May 1996 19:39:41 -0600 Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 19:39:41 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605070139.TAA19632@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Jeremy Sigmon Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mailer packages.... In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Anyone recommend any good mail filtering packages? procmail is what I've been using for almost 2 years now. It works great, and is pretty easy to setup. Get the procmail package and read the installed manpage. Nate From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 6 18:44:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA26320 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 May 1996 18:44:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebsd.ki.net (root@freebsd.ki.net [205.150.102.51]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA26295 for ; Mon, 6 May 1996 18:43:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by freebsd.ki.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA03996; Mon, 6 May 1996 21:43:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: freebsd.ki.net: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 21:43:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Jeremy Sigmon cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mailer packages.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 6 May 1996, Jeremy Sigmon wrote: > > Anyone recommend any good mail filtering packages? > I am currently using Pine, but I would like to have my incoming > mail sorted. (Especially these groups ;-} ). > Anyone have any suggestions? > Some idea of how much trouble they are to install would also be > helpful. procmail is the best I've found so far...its in the ports section. Marc G. Fournier scrappy@ki.net Systems Administrator @ ki.net scrappy@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 7 09:07:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA16655 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 7 May 1996 09:07:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tarsier.cv.nrao.edu (juphoff@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA16650 for ; Tue, 7 May 1996 09:06:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from juphoff@localhost) by tarsier.cv.nrao.edu (8.6.13/$Revision: 2.7 $) id MAA12187; Tue, 7 May 1996 12:06:43 -0400 Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 12:06:43 -0400 Message-Id: <199605071606.MAA12187@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu> From: Jeff Uphoff To: "matthew c. mead" Cc: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, chat@freebsd.org, pmurphy@nrao.edu Subject: Re: [Forwarded e-mail from Alexander O. Yuriev] In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, May 6, 1996 10:39:06 -0400 References: <199605061306.JAA05982@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu> <199605061439.KAA04427@neon.Glock.COM> X-Zippy: Do I have a lifestyle yet? X-Mailer: VM 5.95 (beta); GNU Emacs 19.29.1 X-Attribution: Up Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "mcm" == matthew c mead writes: >> Sounds like the linux-kernel list sometimes; I've seen higher valid >> content ratios on IRC channels. mcm> Is it not moderated? Nope. And it's gated to the linux.dev.kernel group on those USENET sites that carry the linux.* hierarchy. mcm> I ran linux for a couple months back when it was .96p8 - mcm> back when you had to build your own distribution. I got sick of mcm> not having a true slip connection and switched to good old 386bsd mcm> 0.0. I actually ran that for over a year before I switched back mcm> to linux when its slip was fairly decent. I didn't find Linux really "useful" until 0.99.10, when SLIP became native. --Up. From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 7 09:12:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA16946 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 7 May 1996 09:12:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tarsier.cv.nrao.edu (juphoff@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu [192.33.115.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA16901 for ; Tue, 7 May 1996 09:11:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from juphoff@localhost) by tarsier.cv.nrao.edu (8.6.13/$Revision: 2.7 $) id MAA12251; Tue, 7 May 1996 12:11:51 -0400 Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 12:11:51 -0400 Message-Id: <199605071611.MAA12251@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu> From: Jeff Uphoff To: Ollivier Robert Cc: mmead@Glock.COM (matthew c. mead), chat@freebsd.org, pmurphy@nrao.edu Subject: Re: [Forwarded e-mail from Alexander O. Yuriev] In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, May 6, 1996 19:54:32 +0200 References: <199605061439.KAA04427@neon.Glock.COM> <199605061754.TAA26026@keltia.freenix.fr> X-Palindrome: Live evil. X-Mailer: VM 5.95 (beta); GNU Emacs 19.29.1 X-Attribution: Up Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "OR" == Ollivier Robert writes: OR> It seems that matthew c. mead said: >> Anyone know offhand what the mailq on freefall looks >> like? :-) OR> We're cheating on freefall :-) Same here. OR> There are at least 4 different levels of queuing (based on how much time OR> the mail takes to deliver) and there are some national mail exploders (.de, OR> .fr and .au for example). Both helped a lot reducing the mail load... I've got over a dozen regional hubs for linux-{security,alert} now, e.g. nic.funet.fi and procert.cert.dfn.de. (I've done substantial "rewiring" in sendmail.cf.) Reduced my total delivery time by a good 50%! --Up. From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 7 14:26:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA09984 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 7 May 1996 14:26:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from antares.aero.org (antares.aero.org [130.221.192.46]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA09974 for ; Tue, 7 May 1996 14:26:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anpiel.aero.org by antares.aero.org (4.1/AMS-1.0) id AA09546 for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 7 May 96 14:25:46 PDT Message-Id: <9605072125.AA09546@antares.aero.org> To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Cc: chat@freebsd.org, juphoff@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu Subject: Re: [Forwarded e-mail from Alexander O. Yuriev] In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 04 May 1996 02:08:32 PDT." <199605040908.LAA21783@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 14:25:38 -0700 From: "Mike O'Brien" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This reminds me: one of Kirk McKusick's policies in the copyright of > the daemon is that its use does not have to contradict ``common sense > of good taste''. Let me get persnickety here. McKusick owns HIS daemon. He doesn't own THE daemon. Depending on how you look at the notion of a 'work made for hire', either Phil Foglio owns the original UNIX daemon, or I do. Details on request. Or possibly DEC owns it. Mike O'Brien From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 7 14:54:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA12901 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 7 May 1996 14:54:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA12881 for ; Tue, 7 May 1996 14:53:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA04693; Tue, 7 May 1996 23:50:50 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA21086; Tue, 7 May 1996 23:50:50 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA11814; Tue, 7 May 1996 23:46:29 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605072146.XAA11814@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: [Forwarded e-mail from Alexander O. Yuriev] To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 23:46:29 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: juphoff@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <9605072125.AA09546@antares.aero.org> from Mike O'Brien at "May 7, 96 02:25:38 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Mike O'Brien wrote: > > This reminds me: one of Kirk McKusick's policies in the copyright of > > the daemon is that its use does not have to contradict ``common sense > > of good taste''. > > Let me get persnickety here. McKusick owns HIS daemon. He doesn't > own THE daemon. Yep, but since it's copyrighted, he rules what happens to anything that closely resembles HIS daemon. After all, that's what copyrights are for (the true ones, not this abuse for software). Anyway, his copyright rules are really few and acceptable, so anybody would do some good in keeping in line with them. (He's only been copyrighting it to protect it from [commercial] abuse, basically.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 7 14:58:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA13384 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 7 May 1996 14:58:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA13374 Tue, 7 May 1996 14:58:41 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199605072158.OAA13374@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: [Forwarded e-mail from Alexander O. Yuriev] To: obrien@antares.aero.org (Mike O'Brien) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 14:58:41 -0700 (PDT) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, chat@freebsd.org, juphoff@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu In-Reply-To: <9605072125.AA09546@antares.aero.org> from "Mike O'Brien" at May 7, 96 02:25:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mike O'Brien wrote: > > > This reminds me: one of Kirk McKusick's policies in the copyright of > > the daemon is that its use does not have to contradict ``common sense > > of good taste''. > > Let me get persnickety here. McKusick owns HIS daemon. He doesn't > own THE daemon. Depending on how you look at the notion of a 'work > made for hire', either Phil Foglio owns the original UNIX daemon, > or I do. Details on request. > details and gifs PLEASE! > Or possibly DEC owns it. > > Mike O'Brien > From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 7 15:07:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA14418 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 7 May 1996 15:07:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA14387 Tue, 7 May 1996 15:07:13 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199605072207.PAA14387@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: 4.4BSD book To: hackers Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 15:07:13 -0700 (PDT) Cc: chat X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The Design and Implementation of the 4.4BSD Operating System book is out. got a copy right here ;) Folks, this book is dedicated to YOU: This book is dedicated to the BSD community, Without the contributions of that community's members, there would be nothing about which to write. Special acknowledgements to John Dyson, David Greenman, both of The FreeBSD Project. Everyone raise a glass to these two gentlemen. And another glass to all of the members of The FreeBSD Project! -- Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD--4.4BSD Unix for PC clones, source included. http://www.freebsd.org/ From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 7 15:32:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA16880 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 7 May 1996 15:32:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA16870 for ; Tue, 7 May 1996 15:32:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA10300; Tue, 7 May 1996 15:30:30 -0700 (PDT) To: "Mike O'Brien" cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch), chat@freebsd.org, juphoff@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu Subject: Re: [Forwarded e-mail from Alexander O. Yuriev] In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 May 1996 14:25:38 PDT." <9605072125.AA09546@antares.aero.org> Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 15:30:29 -0700 Message-ID: <10298.831508229@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, no need for extended debate, but Kirk owns the copyright on "the daemon image" and I guess it doesn't really much matter beyond that. >From what I understand, it was actually copyrighted by Rick Adams, who then assigned it to UUNET who then turned around and gave it to Kirk McKusick to keep "in trust" to prevent misuse. It was sort of a group decision among the UNIX old guard to leave it in the hands of someone whom they felt would treat it with the appropriate respect. Jordan > > This reminds me: one of Kirk McKusick's policies in the copyright of > > the daemon is that its use does not have to contradict ``common sense > > of good taste''. > > Let me get persnickety here. McKusick owns HIS daemon. He doesn't > own THE daemon. Depending on how you look at the notion of a 'work > made for hire', either Phil Foglio owns the original UNIX daemon, > or I do. Details on request. > > Or possibly DEC owns it. > > Mike O'Brien From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 7 16:28:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA24048 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 7 May 1996 16:28:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from antares.aero.org (antares.aero.org [130.221.192.46]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA23986 for ; Tue, 7 May 1996 16:28:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anpiel.aero.org by antares.aero.org (4.1/AMS-1.0) id AA11714 for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 7 May 96 16:27:22 PDT Message-Id: <9605072327.AA11714@antares.aero.org> To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Cc: obrien@antares.aero.org (Mike O'Brien), joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, chat@freebsd.org, juphoff@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu Subject: Re: [Forwarded e-mail from Alexander O. Yuriev] In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 07 May 1996 14:58:41 PDT." <199605072158.OAA13374@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 16:27:20 -0700 From: "Mike O'Brien" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > details and gifs PLEASE! If you insist. :-) Sherman, set the Wayback Machine for around 1976 or so (see Peter Salus' _A Quarter Century of UNIX_ for details), when the first really national UNIX meeting was held in Urbana, Illinois. This would be after the "forty people in a Brooklyn classroom" meeting held by Mel Ferentz (yeah I was at that too) and the more-or-less simultaneous West Coast meeting(s) hosted by SRI, but before the UNIX Users Group was really incorporated as a going concern. I knew Ken Thompson and Dennis Ritchie would be there. I was living in Chicago at the time, and so was comic artist Phil Foglio, whose star was just beginning to rise. At that time I was a bonded locksmith. Phil's roommate had unexpectedly split town, and he was the only one who knew the combination to the wall safe in their apartment. This is the only apartment I've ever seen that had a wall safe, but it sure did have one, and Phil had some stuff locked in there. I didn't hold out much hope, since safes are far beyond where I was (and am) in my locksmithing sphere of competence, but I figured "no guts no glory" and told him I'd give it a whack. In return, I told him, he could do some T-shirt art for me. He readily agreed. Wonder of wonders, this safe was vulnerable to the same algorithm that Master locks used to be susceptible to. I opened it in about 15 minutes of manipulation. It was my greatest moment as a locksmith and Phil was overjoyed. I went down to my lab and shot some Polaroid snaps of the PDP-11 system I was running UNIX on at the time, and gave it to Phil with some descriptions of the visual puns I wanted: pipes, demons with forks running along the pipes, a "bit bucket" named /dev/null, all that. What Phil came up with is the artwork that graced the first decade's worth of "UNIX T-shirts", which were made by a Ma and Pa operation in a Chicago suburb. They turned out transfer art using a 3M color copier in their basement. Hence, the PDP-11 is reversed (the tape drives are backwards) but since Phil left off the front panel, this was hard to tell. His trademark signature was photo-reversed, but was recopied by the T-shirt people and "re-forwardized", which is why it looks a little funny compared to his real signature. Dozens and dozens of these shirts were produced. Bell Labs alone accounted for an order of something like 200 for a big picnic. However, only four (4) REAL originals were produced: these have a distinctive red collar and sleeve cuff. One went to Ken, one to Dennis, one to me, and one to my then-wife. I now possess the latter two shirts. Ken and Dennis were presented with their shirts at the Urbana conference. People ordered these shirts direct from the Chicago couple. Many years later, when I was living in LA, I got a call from Armando Stettner, then at DEC, asking about that now-famous artwork. I told him I hadn't talked to the Illinois T-shirt makers in years. At his request I called them up. They'd folded the operation years ago and were within days of discarding all the old artwork. I requested its return, and duly received it back in the mail. It looked strange, seeing it again in its original form, a mirror image of the shirts with which I and everyone else were now familiar. I sent the artwork to Armando, who wanted to give it to the Ultrix marketing people. They came out with the Ultrix poster that showed a nice shiny Ultrix machine contrasted with the chewing-gum-and-string PDP-11 UNIX people were familiar with. They still have the artwork, so far as I know. I no longer recall the exact contents of the letter I sent along with the artwork. I did say that as far as I knew, Phil had no residual rights to the art, since it was a 'work made for hire', though nothing was in writing (and note this was decades before the new copyright law). I do not now recall if I explicitly assigned all rights to DEC. What is certain is that John Lassiter's daemon, whether knowingly borrowed from the original, or created by parallel evolution, postdates the first horde of UNIX daemons by at least a decade and probably more. And if Lassiter's daemon looks a lot like a Phil Foglio creation, there's a reason. I have never scanned in Phil's artwork; I've hardly ever scanned in anything, so I have no GIFs to show. But I have some very very old UNIX T-shirts in startlingly good condition. Better condition than I am at any rate: I no longer fit into either of them. Mike O'Brien creaky antique From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 7 17:02:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA26888 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 7 May 1996 17:02:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from antares.aero.org (antares.aero.org [130.221.192.46]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA26881 for ; Tue, 7 May 1996 17:02:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anpiel.aero.org by antares.aero.org (4.1/AMS-1.0) id AA12201 for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 7 May 96 17:02:00 PDT Message-Id: <9605080002.AA12201@antares.aero.org> To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Cc: chat@freebsd.org, juphoff@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu Subject: Re: [Forwarded e-mail from Alexander O. Yuriev] In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 07 May 1996 14:46:29 PDT." <199605072146.XAA11814@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 17:01:53 -0700 From: "Mike O'Brien" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Yep, but since it's copyrighted, he rules what happens to anything > that closely resembles HIS daemon. I wonder if he can copyright something I owned ten years before? Seems odd that he can do that without having inherited the rights. From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 7 17:40:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA00268 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 7 May 1996 17:40:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA00262 Tue, 7 May 1996 17:40:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maryann.eng.umd.edu (maryann.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.209]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA19612; Tue, 7 May 1996 20:40:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by maryann.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA24475; Tue, 7 May 1996 20:40:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 20:40:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@maryann.eng.umd.edu To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, chat@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: 4.4BSD book In-Reply-To: <199605072207.PAA14387@freefall.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 7 May 1996, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > The Design and Implementation of the 4.4BSD > Operating System book is out. got a copy right here ;) > > Folks, this book is dedicated to YOU: > > This book is dedicated to the BSD community, > Without the contributions of that community's members, > there would be nothing about which to write. > > > Special acknowledgements to John Dyson, David Greenman, both > of The FreeBSD Project. > > Everyone raise a glass to these two gentlemen. > And another glass to all of the members of The FreeBSD Project! I'd love a copy. Do publishers allow group buys on new books? I bet that there'd be a lot of FreeBSDers who want that book! ========================================================================== Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu, I run FreeBSD-current on n3lxx + Journey2 Three Accounts for the Super-users in the sky, Seven for the Operators in their halls of fame, Nine for Ordinary Users doomed to crie, One for the Illegal Cracker with his evil game In the Domains of Internet where the data lie. One Account to rule them all, One Account to watch them, One Account to make them all and in the network bind them. From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 7 17:51:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA01033 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 7 May 1996 17:51:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA01007 Tue, 7 May 1996 17:51:48 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199605080051.RAA01007@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: 4.4BSD book To: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 17:51:47 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, chat@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at May 7, 96 08:40:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Chuck Robey wrote: > > On Tue, 7 May 1996, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > > The Design and Implementation of the 4.4BSD > > Operating System book is out. got a copy right here ;) > > > I'd love a copy. Do publishers allow group buys on new books? I bet > that there'd be a lot of FreeBSDers who want that book! the publisher is addison-wesley. i got this one from computer lieracy www.clbooks.com you used to mention a place called readme.com? that sold books at a reasonable discount? perhaps we could arrange a group purchase from them. people could send in checks and then have the books deliver to one person in each city. everyone else goes to see that one person to get their copy. might save on shipping, if not then just ship each to each person direct. -- Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD--4.4BSD Unix for PC clones, source included. http://www.freebsd.org/ From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 7 17:58:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA01665 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 7 May 1996 17:58:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA01658 Tue, 7 May 1996 17:58:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maryann.eng.umd.edu (maryann.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.209]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA20122; Tue, 7 May 1996 20:58:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by maryann.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA27361; Tue, 7 May 1996 20:58:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 20:58:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@maryann.eng.umd.edu To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, chat@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: 4.4BSD book In-Reply-To: <199605080051.RAA01007@freefall.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 7 May 1996, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > Chuck Robey wrote: > > > > On Tue, 7 May 1996, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > > > > The Design and Implementation of the 4.4BSD > > > Operating System book is out. got a copy right here ;) > > > > > I'd love a copy. Do publishers allow group buys on new books? I bet > > that there'd be a lot of FreeBSDers who want that book! > > the publisher is addison-wesley. i got this one from > computer lieracy www.clbooks.com > > you used to mention a place called readme.com? that sold books > at a reasonable discount? perhaps we could arrange a group purchase > from them. people could send in checks and then have the > books deliver to one person in each city. everyone else goes > to see that one person to get their copy. might save on shipping, > if not then just ship each to each person direct. Good idea. It's Readme.Doc, and it's too late in the day to call them now, but I'll check tomorrow and report back to the list. I wouldn't mind organizing it either (I could collect the money, I suppose, deal with Readme.Doc, whatever) ========================================================================== Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu, I run FreeBSD-current on n3lxx + Journey2 Three Accounts for the Super-users in the sky, Seven for the Operators in their halls of fame, Nine for Ordinary Users doomed to crie, One for the Illegal Cracker with his evil game In the Domains of Internet where the data lie. One Account to rule them all, One Account to watch them, One Account to make them all and in the network bind them. From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 7 18:20:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA04939 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 7 May 1996 18:20:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wedge.its.utas.edu.au (wedge.its.utas.edu.au [131.217.10.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA04929 Tue, 7 May 1996 18:20:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from cp_nairn@localhost) by wedge.its.utas.edu.au (8.7.1/8.6.6) id LAA15493; Wed, 8 May 1996 11:20:45 +1000 (EST) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 11:20:44 +1000 (EST) From: Carey Nairn X-Sender: cp_nairn@wedge.its.utas.edu.au To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: chat@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: 4.4BSD book In-Reply-To: <199605072207.PAA14387@freefall.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, any chance of getting some details of this book ? Publisher ? ISBN # ? thanks, Carey Nairn ========================================================================= Carey Nairn ! email : Carey.Nairn@its.utas.edu.au Networks and Communications ! phone : (002) 20 7419 Information Technology Services ! fax : (002) 20 7898 University of Tasmania. ! ========================================================================= From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 7 18:27:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA05800 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 7 May 1996 18:27:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA05792 Tue, 7 May 1996 18:27:02 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199605080127.SAA05792@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: 4.4BSD book To: cp_nairn@cc.utas.edu.au (Carey Nairn) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 18:27:02 -0700 (PDT) Cc: chat@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers In-Reply-To: from "Carey Nairn" at May 8, 96 11:20:44 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Carey Nairn wrote: > > any chance of getting some details of this book ? Publisher ? ISBN # ? The Design and Implelemtation of the 4.4BSD Operating System McKusick, Bostic, Karels, Quarterman addison-wesley 1996 isbn # 0-201-54979-4 http://www.aw/com/cseng/ tomorrow one person will look into doing a group buy of this book. if hte group buy is possible, i will post the details and request you all to send name, address, and phone number. PLEASE wait till we know if this is possible, first. jmb -- Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD--4.4BSD Unix for PC clones, source included. http://www.freebsd.org/ From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 7 19:06:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA10151 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 7 May 1996 19:06:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA10144 for ; Tue, 7 May 1996 19:06:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA11243; Tue, 7 May 1996 19:04:18 -0700 (PDT) To: "Mike O'Brien" cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch), chat@FreeBSD.ORG, juphoff@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu Subject: Re: [Forwarded e-mail from Alexander O. Yuriev] In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 May 1996 17:01:53 PDT." <9605080002.AA12201@antares.aero.org> Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 19:04:18 -0700 Message-ID: <11241.831521058@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Yep, but since it's copyrighted, he rules what happens to anything > > that closely resembles HIS daemon. > > I wonder if he can copyright something I owned ten years before? Seems > odd that he can do that without having inherited the rights. When you say "own" do you mean in the legal sense? If not, then sure! Just like two people inventing the laser or the telephone - the first one with the patent wins. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 8 00:53:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA05486 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 8 May 1996 00:53:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA05470 Wed, 8 May 1996 00:52:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA22002; Wed, 8 May 1996 09:51:42 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA26260; Wed, 8 May 1996 09:51:31 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA14007; Wed, 8 May 1996 09:41:06 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605080741.JAA14007@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: SNAP over enthernet. To: gpalmer@FreeBSD.org (Gary Palmer) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 09:41:06 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: faulkner@asgard.bga.com, chat@FreeBSD.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <3038.831491706@palmer.demon.co.uk> from Gary Palmer at "May 7, 96 06:55:06 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Gary Palmer wrote: > > The recipient's MS Mail system has not delivered your message & has > > provided the following reason: > > I've been getting thse too. It just means someone is subscribed to > -questions and has screwed up. No, it basically means that someone is subscribed to questions but has a broken mailer. (That's no surprise however, after seeing the MS word there...) Mailers are supposed (by RFC-822 and ff.) to send delivery failure notices to the envelope sender address, not the message From or Reply-To address. This way, our great postmaster would have seen it instead of you. (And once he saw too many of them in a row caused by one particular destination address, he's usually going to remove the offender from the lists.) If i'm getting a mail like this, i usually: . forward it to Jonathan, so he knows about it, and . complain at the postmaster of the offending site about his broken mailer. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 8 00:55:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA05706 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 8 May 1996 00:55:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA05541 for ; Wed, 8 May 1996 00:53:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA21970; Wed, 8 May 1996 09:51:22 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA26252; Wed, 8 May 1996 09:51:21 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA13921; Wed, 8 May 1996 09:27:42 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605080727.JAA13921@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: [Forwarded e-mail from Alexander O. Yuriev] To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 09:27:41 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: juphoff@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <9605080002.AA12201@antares.aero.org> from Mike O'Brien at "May 7, 96 05:01:53 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Mike O'Brien wrote: > > Yep, but since it's copyrighted, he rules what happens to anything > > that closely resembles HIS daemon. > > I wonder if he can copyright something I owned ten years before? Seems > odd that he can do that without having inherited the rights. He can, since you haven't copyrighted your version before. Anyway: funny story. :) Pity that it didn't make it into Salus' book. It raised the question in me how many daemons there have been in the early Unices. Most of our current daemons are somehow related to network activities. I think, only init, update, and cron have already been there in V7? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 8 02:04:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA14238 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 8 May 1996 02:04:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA14160 Wed, 8 May 1996 02:03:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA09901; Wed, 8 May 1996 12:02:49 +0300 Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 12:02:49 +0300 (EET DST) From: Narvi To: Chuck Robey cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, chat@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: 4.4BSD book In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Any plans for a European group buy? Sander Eat good food, preserve nature, be nice to all nice people :) On Tue, 7 May 1996, Chuck Robey wrote: > On Tue, 7 May 1996, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > > The Design and Implementation of the 4.4BSD > > Operating System book is out. got a copy right here ;) > > > > Folks, this book is dedicated to YOU: > > > > This book is dedicated to the BSD community, > > Without the contributions of that community's members, > > there would be nothing about which to write. > > > > > > Special acknowledgements to John Dyson, David Greenman, both > > of The FreeBSD Project. > > > > Everyone raise a glass to these two gentlemen. > > And another glass to all of the members of The FreeBSD Project! > > I'd love a copy. Do publishers allow group buys on new books? I bet > that there'd be a lot of FreeBSDers who want that book! > > > ========================================================================== > Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu, I run FreeBSD-current on n3lxx + Journey2 > > Three Accounts for the Super-users in the sky, > Seven for the Operators in their halls of fame, > Nine for Ordinary Users doomed to crie, > One for the Illegal Cracker with his evil game > In the Domains of Internet where the data lie. > One Account to rule them all, One Account to watch them, > One Account to make them all and in the network bind them. > > > From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 8 13:24:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA20794 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 8 May 1996 13:24:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from antares.aero.org (antares.aero.org [130.221.192.46]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA20774 for ; Wed, 8 May 1996 13:24:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anpiel.aero.org by antares.aero.org (4.1/AMS-1.0) id AA27524 for chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 8 May 96 13:23:23 PDT Message-Id: <9605082023.AA27524@antares.aero.org> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: "Mike O'Brien" , joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch), chat@freebsd.org, juphoff@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu Subject: Re: [Forwarded e-mail from Alexander O. Yuriev] In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 07 May 1996 19:04:18 PDT." <11241.831521058@time.cdrom.com> Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 13:23:20 -0700 From: "Mike O'Brien" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > When you say "own" do you mean in the legal sense? If not, then sure! > Just like two people inventing the laser or the telephone - the first > one with the patent wins. :-) Not if you can demonstrate "prior art". But that's for patents, not copyright. I dunno. From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 8 14:58:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA28382 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 8 May 1996 14:58:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA28375 Wed, 8 May 1996 14:58:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id XAA19262 ; Wed, 8 May 1996 23:58:26 +0200 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id XAA18642 ; Wed, 8 May 1996 23:58:38 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.5/keltia-uucp-2.7) id XAA07597; Wed, 8 May 1996 23:36:47 +0200 (MET DST) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199605082136.XAA07597@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: SNAP over enthernet. To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 23:36:47 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: gpalmer@freebsd.org, faulkner@asgard.bga.com, chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605080741.JAA14007@uriah.heep.sax.de> from J Wunsch at "May 8, 96 09:41:06 am" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1948 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL16 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that J Wunsch said: > No, it basically means that someone is subscribed to questions but has > a broken mailer. (That's no surprise however, after seeing the MS > word there...) MS-Fail is broken in almost every RFC-822 aspect anyway. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #14: Tue Apr 30 21:08:35 MET DST 1996 From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 8 17:13:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA11859 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 8 May 1996 17:13:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from attila.stevens-tech.edu (attila.stevens-tech.edu [155.246.14.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA11847 for ; Wed, 8 May 1996 17:13:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from S96254.u96.stevens-tech.edu (S96254.u96.stevens-tech.edu [155.246.130.77]) by attila.stevens-tech.edu (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA11155 for ; Wed, 8 May 1996 20:13:26 -0400 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960509002200.0069dc1c@attila.stevens-tech.edu> X-Sender: pchhibbe@attila.stevens-tech.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 20:22:00 -0400 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: Parag Chhibber Subject: Different versions of FreeBSD Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi. I've done quite a bit of reading around, and just wanted to make sure that I understood the differences between the versions of FreeBSD. -RELEASE : The absolutely safest version of FreeBSD (currently 2.1) -STABLE : A newer version then the release, with some more bugfixes -CURRENT : A newer version the the stable, basically a little less stable. -SNAPSHOT : The newest "version" of FreeBSD. Is that correct? If it is, then I guess if I want to start an ISP, I should start familiarizing myself with -RELEASE? Thanks in advance for your time and effort. -Parag Chhibber From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 8 19:08:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA24113 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 8 May 1996 19:08:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from comserver ([200.248.249.123]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA24053 Wed, 8 May 1996 19:07:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from lenzi@localhost) by comserver (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA00271; Wed, 8 May 1996 22:35:28 GMT Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 22:35:26 +0000 () From: Sergio de Almeida Lenzi X-Sender: lenzi@comserver To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, chat@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: 4.4BSD book In-Reply-To: <199605072207.PAA14387@freefall.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello all. I live in Brazil and here there are a lot of persons using FreeBSD. I and all my friends, congratulate John Dyson, David Greenman, and the FreeBSD team for a magnific OS they gave to all of us. I use FreeBSD for everything, my fun now is installing FreeBSD at home of my new friends that are entering Internet. They all say: It's Fantastic!. My new friends are a 12 year old boy named leonardo in Florianopolis, and Bia a 13 year old girl. All at home with FreeBSD. We use it at work for Web servers and acessing Oracle databases. It's Fantastic.... From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 8 19:54:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA00637 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 8 May 1996 19:54:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA00627 for ; Wed, 8 May 1996 19:54:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA26179; Wed, 8 May 1996 19:53:26 -0700 (PDT) To: Parag Chhibber cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Different versions of FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 08 May 1996 20:22:00 EDT." <2.2.32.19960509002200.0069dc1c@attila.stevens-tech.edu> Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 19:53:26 -0700 Message-ID: <26177.831610406@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've done quite a bit of reading around, and just wanted to make sure that I > understood the differences between the versions of FreeBSD. > > -RELEASE : The absolutely safest version of FreeBSD (currently 2.1) I don't know if I'd say "safest" :-) It's most correct to simply say that this is the latest official release. > -STABLE : A newer version then the release, with some more bugfixes Not a version, a _branch_. In other words, -stable doesn't have "releases", it's more like an ongoing code stream. > -CURRENT : A newer version the the stable, basically a little less > stable. Again, another branch (read man pages on CVS for greater understanding of what a branch is). Both -stable and -release branches occasionally have releases made as points along the graph, the latest release on the 2.1-stable branch being 2.1-RELEASE and -release not having had a real "release" yet (that'll be 2.2-RELEASE, when it comes out). > -SNAPSHOT : The newest "version" of FreeBSD. No, a snapshot is simply a "pseudo-release" made along a branch for testing purposes. It's not a real release, it's more like a release test (a dry run). > Is that correct? If it is, then I guess if I want to start an ISP, I should > start familiarizing myself with -RELEASE? The latest release and the -stable branch for bug fixes, yes. Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 8 20:14:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA03083 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 8 May 1996 20:14:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ki.net (root@ki.net [205.150.102.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA03075 for ; Wed, 8 May 1996 20:14:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id XAA03666; Wed, 8 May 1996 23:14:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 23:14:46 -0400 (EDT) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Parag Chhibber cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Different versions of FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960509002200.0069dc1c@attila.stevens-tech.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 8 May 1996, Parag Chhibber wrote: > -CURRENT : A newer version the the stable, basically a little less > stable. > > -SNAPSHOT : The newest "version" of FreeBSD. > These two are backwards, actually. -CURRENT is the latest and greatest, somedays not quite compilable (rare). -SNAPSHOT is exactly that...a SNAPSHOT of CURRENT at a point when the development tree is considered to be stable enough to create a distribution of. -SNAPSHOT changes once in a while, -CURRENT changes hourly :) Marc G. Fournier scrappy@ki.net Systems Administrator @ ki.net scrappy@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 9 00:23:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA18040 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 9 May 1996 00:23:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA17979 for ; Thu, 9 May 1996 00:21:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA04219; Thu, 9 May 1996 09:21:00 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA10690; Thu, 9 May 1996 09:21:00 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA18428; Thu, 9 May 1996 09:17:44 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605090717.JAA18428@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Different versions of FreeBSD To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 09:17:43 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: pchhibbe@attila.stevens-tech.edu (Parag Chhibber) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960509002200.0069dc1c@attila.stevens-tech.edu> from Parag Chhibber at "May 8, 96 08:22:00 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Parag Chhibber wrote: > -RELEASE : The absolutely safest version of FreeBSD (currently 2.1) To be correct: the last official release that has undergone the usual quality assurance cycles, and that has been certified ``consistent''. > -CURRENT : A newer version the the stable, basically a little less > stable. Not really. -current and -stable have a common ancestor (this is currently FreeBSD 2.0.5), at which point the -stable branch has been split off in the CVS repository. This was initially done with the goal of releasing 2.1 as a bugfix-mostly upgrade against 2.0.5, but without blocking further development. The main trunk has been named ``2.2-current'' then, to make it clear that all new features will only appear in an upcoming 2.2 release. Later on, after 2.1 has been released, we decided to keep the branch, and bring over further bugfixes from the main development into it, without importing more new (potentially buggy). The intention was to keep this code base as stable as possible, that's why the name. -current itself is simply the latest and greatest development source tree, with all breakage and all that. From time to time it might even be more stable than -stable, ironically. > -SNAPSHOT : The newest "version" of FreeBSD. No, as the name says, a snapshot of a development system, either taken from -current, or potentially also from the -stable branch, though the latter didn't happen yet. > Is that correct? If it is, then I guess if I want to start an ISP, I should > start familiarizing myself with -RELEASE? Start with 2.1-RELEASE, and have a close look to all bugfixes that have been brought into the 2.1-stable branch. For something like an ISP, i wouldn't auto-add all bugfixes, but only apply hand-selected patches (once you know they might be good for you, and you've code- reviewed them to be sure that's what you need). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 9 07:52:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA12833 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 9 May 1996 07:52:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuminfo2.informatik.tu-muenchen.de (root@tuminfo2.informatik.tu-muenchen.de [131.159.0.81]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA12790 for ; Thu, 9 May 1996 07:52:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sunsystem5.informatik.tu-muenchen.de ([131.159.0.125]) by tuminfo2.informatik.tu-muenchen.de with ESMTP id <26510-2>; Thu, 9 May 1996 16:40:43 +0200 Received: by sunsystem5.informatik.tu-muenchen.de id <15879>; Thu, 9 May 1996 16:40:29 +0200 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Path: not-for-mail From: gruner@informatik.tu-muenchen.de (Armin Gruner) Newsgroups: muc.misc,tum.info.general,tum.general,de.etc.misc,de.comp.misc,muc.lists.freebsd.chat Subject: Re: New 4.4BSD book - group buy Date: 9 May 1996 14:40:17 GMT Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany Lines: 64 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4mt04h$18n@sunsystem5.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: hprbg5.informatik.tu-muenchen.de X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0] Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Who is interested in a group order inside GERMANY? I would offer to organize it. Regards, Armin ____ Armin Gruner, Technische Universitaet, Muenchen \ / http://www.leo.org/~gruner/ \/ Nur wer sich aendert, bleibt sich treu - Wolf Biermann Chuck Robey (chuckr@Glue.umd.edu) wrote: : OK, this is about the recently released Addison Wesley book, The Design : and Implementation of the 4.4BSD Operating System, by McKusick, Bostic : Karels, and Quarterman. : : I called Readme.doc, and they said they would be happy to offer a : discount, and yes, they would let the agregate of however many FreeBSDers : order count against one big discount pool. They said that they'd be : happy to arrange shipping, tho they would charge $3/per person shipping. : : What they want is me to get a list of folks together who want to buy it, : so that they can estimate the cost. The book runs (full price) $48.37, : and Readme.Doc's discount is: : : 1-5 books 20 percent off : 6-20 books 23 percent off : 21-50 books 25 percent off : : I didn't ask about any more, but it keeps on in like fashion. They said : that they DO handle European shipping, but it's very expensive on a : book-by book basis. They suggested that maybe someone in Europe could : get all the books (shrinking the shipping costs) and then re-ship there, : to cut the costs. I'm in Maryland, so I can't do that, someone in Europe : is going to have to volunteer that. : : If you want the book, send me Email about it. Make sure you have a good : email return address. Don't send me money, don't send anything like : that, I'm just supposed to get names/numbers. I will send back payment : instructions when I think I have got everyone (1-2 weeks probably). For : folks inthe US, this probably means you'll end up calling Readme.Doc : direct, giving them a credit card number, and referencing the FreeBSD : group-buy. I'm just supposed to get names so they can figure a discount : to offer. : : I'll repost when I get more info, when I get an idea how many folks want : to do this. I have several folks already mailing me, even before I knew : Readme.Doc would do this. For your info, I've been using Readme.Doc for : some time now, because they discount Unix books (like the 4.4BSD manuals : they sold me, and various other O'Reilly books I didn't have to pay full : price for). I have never had anything but good service from them. : : ========================================================================== : Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu, I run FreeBSD-current on n3lxx + Journey2 : : Three Accounts for the Super-users in the sky, : Seven for the Operators in their halls of fame, : Nine for Ordinary Users doomed to crie, : One for the Illegal Cracker with his evil game : In the Domains of Internet where the data lie. : One Account to rule them all, One Account to watch them, : One Account to make them all and in the network bind them. : : From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 9 08:07:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA14322 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 9 May 1996 08:07:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chrome.jdl.com (chrome.onramp.net [199.1.166.202]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA14313 Thu, 9 May 1996 08:07:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chrome.jdl.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA05569; Thu, 9 May 1996 10:07:05 -0500 Message-Id: <199605091507.KAA05569@chrome.jdl.com> X-Authentication-Warning: chrome.jdl.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Sergio de Almeida Lenzi cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , chat@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: 4.4BSD book In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 08 May 1996 22:35:26 -0000." Clarity-Index: null Threat-Level: none Software-Engineering-Dead-Seriousness: There's no excuse for unreadable code. Net-thought: If you meet the Buddha on the net, put him in your Kill file. Compiler-Motto: Wintermute is dead. Long live Wintermute. Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 10:07:01 -0500 From: Jon Loeliger Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [Stripped hackers- outta the cc: list] > My new friends are a 12 year old boy named leonardo in Florianopolis, and > Bia a 13 year old girl. All at home with FreeBSD. Cool! But, anyone *else* suddenly feel _very_ old? So, tell 'em to sign up for freebsd-chat, -hackers and let 'em read about themselves now too! > It [FreeBSD] is Fantastic.... Indeed! jdl From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 9 09:58:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA23232 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 9 May 1996 09:58:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ki.net (root@ki.net [205.150.102.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA23217 Thu, 9 May 1996 09:58:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id MAA13301; Thu, 9 May 1996 12:58:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 12:58:12 -0400 (EDT) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Chuck Robey cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, chat@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: 4.4BSD book In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 7 May 1996, Chuck Robey wrote: > On Tue, 7 May 1996, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > > Chuck Robey wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, 7 May 1996, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > > > > > > The Design and Implementation of the 4.4BSD > > > > Operating System book is out. got a copy right here ;) > > > > > > > I'd love a copy. Do publishers allow group buys on new books? I bet > > > that there'd be a lot of FreeBSDers who want that book! > > > > the publisher is addison-wesley. i got this one from > > computer lieracy www.clbooks.com > > > > you used to mention a place called readme.com? that sold books > > at a reasonable discount? perhaps we could arrange a group purchase > > from them. people could send in checks and then have the > > books deliver to one person in each city. everyone else goes > > to see that one person to get their copy. might save on shipping, > > if not then just ship each to each person direct. > > Good idea. It's Readme.Doc, and it's too late in the day to call them > now, but I'll check tomorrow and report back to the list. I wouldn't > mind organizing it either (I could collect the money, I suppose, deal > with Readme.Doc, whatever) > I haven't received the other posting yet concerning the details of the group buy, but please include me in the list of those that wants (well... needs) a copy. As well, if it helps any with the shipping, I'm willing to act as a hub for the toronto area so that shipping can go to one business address and ppl can pick it up from here. Marc G. Fournier scrappy@ki.net Systems Administrator @ ki.net scrappy@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 9 10:29:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA26583 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 9 May 1996 10:29:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA26576 Thu, 9 May 1996 10:29:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gilligan.eng.umd.edu (gilligan.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.205]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA25763; Thu, 9 May 1996 13:29:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by gilligan.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA23532; Thu, 9 May 1996 13:29:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 13:29:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@gilligan.eng.umd.edu To: "Marc G. Fournier" cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, chat@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: 4.4BSD book In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 9 May 1996, Marc G. Fournier wrote: This is the first person to hit the list with a request for addition to the booklist. Please don't do that, reply to me (chuckr@glue.umd.edu) directly. I'm sorry if this is a little embarrassing, Marc. more below ... > On Tue, 7 May 1996, Chuck Robey wrote: > > > On Tue, 7 May 1996, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > > > > Chuck Robey wrote: > > > > > > > > On Tue, 7 May 1996, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > > > > > > > > The Design and Implementation of the 4.4BSD > > > > > Operating System book is out. got a copy right here ;) > > > > > > > > > I'd love a copy. Do publishers allow group buys on new books? I bet > > > > that there'd be a lot of FreeBSDers who want that book! > > > > > > the publisher is addison-wesley. i got this one from > > > computer lieracy www.clbooks.com > > > > > > you used to mention a place called readme.com? that sold books > > > at a reasonable discount? perhaps we could arrange a group purchase > > > from them. people could send in checks and then have the > > > books deliver to one person in each city. everyone else goes > > > to see that one person to get their copy. might save on shipping, > > > if not then just ship each to each person direct. > > > > Good idea. It's Readme.Doc, and it's too late in the day to call them > > now, but I'll check tomorrow and report back to the list. I wouldn't > > mind organizing it either (I could collect the money, I suppose, deal > > with Readme.Doc, whatever) > > > > > I haven't received the other posting yet concerning the details of the > group buy, but please include me in the list of those that wants (well... > needs) a copy. Marc's on the list. > > As well, if it helps any with the shipping, I'm willing to act as a > hub for the toronto area so that shipping can go to one business address > and ppl can pick it up from here. Not in the US. I have volunteers to reship in AU, UK, and DE already. In the US, the shipping costs are too low to worry about, only in the 3 dollar range. Thanks anyways. > > Marc G. Fournier scrappy@ki.net > Systems Administrator @ ki.net scrappy@freebsd.org > > ========================================================================== Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu, I run FreeBSD-current on n3lxx + Journey2 Three Accounts for the Super-users in the sky, Seven for the Operators in their halls of fame, Nine for Ordinary Users doomed to crie, One for the Illegal Cracker with his evil game In the Domains of Internet where the data lie. One Account to rule them all, One Account to watch them, One Account to make them all and in the network bind them. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 9 11:38:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA01698 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 9 May 1996 11:38:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA01683 for ; Thu, 9 May 1996 11:38:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id IAA16222 ; Thu, 9 May 1996 08:22:20 +0100 (BST) To: Parag Chhibber cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Different versions of FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 08 May 1996 20:22:00 EDT." <2.2.32.19960509002200.0069dc1c@attila.stevens-tech.edu> Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 08:22:19 +0100 Message-ID: <16220.831626539@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Parag Chhibber wrote in message ID <2.2.32.19960509002200.0069dc1c@attila.stevens-tech.edu>: > I've done quite a bit of reading around, and just wanted to make sure that I > understood the differences between the versions of FreeBSD. > -RELEASE : The absolutely safest version of FreeBSD (currently 2.1) > -STABLE : A newer version then the release, with some more bugfixes > -CURRENT : A newer version the the stable, basically a little less > stable. Not QUITE. -stable and -current come from different branches of the CVS tree. Basically, when 2.0.5 was released last summer, the source code was ``branched''. If you just did your work on the source tree normally, you would have made changes to the ``HEAD'', which is what makes up -current. If (at the minute) you make changes to the ``RELENG_2_1_0'' branch, you make a change to -stable. They are (in effect) two different source trees, both undergoing development at the same time, but only one (-current) should be getting new & experimental code, -stable should be getting bugfixes and other minor tweaks which won't affect system stability (hence the name) > -SNAPSHOT : The newest "version" of FreeBSD. Hmm. Actually, -SNAPs are versions of either 2.1(-stable) or 2.2(-current) which have been formed into a release-like distribution, but which we aren't willing to call releases :-) The same process occurs for a release and a snap. A SNAP you can install from scratch as it's a complete system, -stable and -current are just bits of source code which are useless unless you already have FreeBSD installed. You can use the -stable or -current sources to upgrade whichever version of FreeBSD you installed to either -stable or -current (respectively). > Is that correct? If it is, then I guess if I want to start an ISP, I should > start familiarizing myself with -RELEASE? If you are going to be doing something which requires (as a must) system stability, I would probably go for initially installing 2.1.0-RELEASE on your machine(s), downloading the -stable source code and upgrading the system to -stable by doing a make world. Some bug fixes which could affect stability of machines under high load are in -stable but not 2.1R. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD - Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 10 02:12:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA05606 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 10 May 1996 02:12:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from csmd.cs.uni-magdeburg.de (csmd.cs.uni-magdeburg.de [141.44.22.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA05571 for ; Fri, 10 May 1996 02:12:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605100912.CAA05571@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: from csmd42.cs.uni-magdeburg.de by csmd.cs.uni-magdeburg.de with SMTP (1.38.193.5/16.2) id AA15439; Fri, 10 May 1996 11:18:35 +0200 Received: by csmd42.cs.uni-magdeburg.de (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA035839909; Fri, 10 May 1996 11:18:29 +0200 From: Roland Jesse Subject: Re: New 4.4BSD book - group buy To: gruner@informatik.tu-muenchen.de (Armin Gruner) Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 11:18:28 +0200 (MESZ) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <4mt04h$18n@sunsystem5.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> from "Armin Gruner" at May 9, 96 02:40:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME6] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Quoting Armin Gruner: > > Who is interested in a group order inside GERMANY? I would offer to > organize it. Ich bin dabei. Roland -- +---------------------+ | stud.rer.nat. et phil. | | -=<42>=- | +------ pgp public key via keyserver or mail with subject ##key ------+ From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 11 14:09:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-chat Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA17757 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 11 May 1996 14:09:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from post.io.org (post.io.org [198.133.36.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA17747 for ; Sat, 11 May 1996 14:09:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zot.io.org (taob@zot.io.org [198.133.36.82]) by post.io.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA05167; Sat, 11 May 1996 17:10:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 17:08:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: FREEBSD-CHAT-L , Joe Greco cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu Subject: 3 terabytes on one server? (was Re: more than 32 scsi disks on a single machine ?) In-Reply-To: <199605111637.LAA03488@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 11 May 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > I can only imagine the associated 30-day-long fsck. If you have 3TB of dirty filesystems chock full of files to check, it may be prudent to replace fsck with newfs in /etc/rc, if only to preserve your sanity. ;-) -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org, taob@ican.net) Systems and Network Administrator, Internet Canada Corp. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"