From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 19 03:47:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA15480 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 03:47:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from melbourne.DIALix.oz.au (seeuucp@melbourne.DIALix.oz.au [192.203.228.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA15469 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 03:47:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from seeuucp@localhost) by melbourne.DIALix.oz.au (sendmail) with UUCP id UAA08896 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 19 May 1996 20:47:29 +1000 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA00247 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 20:19:10 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199605191019.UAA00247@putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au> X-Authentication-Warning: putte.seeware.DIALix.oz.au: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.7 5/3/96 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: How to interpret lmbench? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 20:19:08 +1000 From: Mark Hannon Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I have just run some lmbench tests on my 2.1.0-STABLE system and am having some trouble understanding the results. Hippo15 motherboard, AMD4-120MHz CPU, running at 40MHz, 24MB RAM, 128K Cache. I have experimented with setting the DRAM WS at both 2 & 1 (read & write) and also 1 & 1. The results for memory latencies are tabulated below. Host OS Mhz L1 $ L2 $ Main mem TLB Guesses putte.see FreeBSD 2.1-S 118 10 480 483 872 No L2 cache? putte.see FreeBSD 2.1-S 118 10 343 345 635 No L2 cache? What do these numbers mean?? Are they telling me the L2 cache doesn't work?? Looking at the graphs I can only see a couple of distinct levels, what sort of L2 & MB times should I be seeing? Regards/mark -- +-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Mark Hannon,| FreeBSD - Free Unix for your PC| mark@seeware.DIALix.oz.au| | Melbourne, | PGP key available by fingering | epamha@epa.ericsson.se | | Australia | seeware@melbourne.DIALix.oz.au | | +-=-=-=-=-=-=-+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 19 04:33:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA18857 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 04:33:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA18822; Sun, 19 May 1996 04:32:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.7.5/8.6.9) id EAA00907; Sun, 19 May 1996 04:32:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 04:32:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605191132.EAA00907@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: salyzyn@inet.dpt.com CC: freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: <3059.832374334@critter.tfs.com> (message from Poul-Henning Kamp on Fri, 17 May 1996 23:05:34 +0000) Subject: Re: Who wants a DPT SCSI controller driver? From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Yes, I would be very interested. (In case you don't know, I'm the person who ported ccd from NetBSD... :) By the way, does DPT allow us to stripe across controllers? (I tried looking at www.dpt.com, but could get to none of the pages....) Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 19 07:14:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA27491 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 07:14:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA27486 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 07:14:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA08875 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 16:14:42 +0200 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA21239 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Sun, 19 May 1996 16:14:31 +0200 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA12842 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Sun, 19 May 1996 15:32:33 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA21673 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 18 May 1996 20:00:48 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199605181800.UAA21673@yedi.iaf.nl> X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands Subject: limitation in st.c, should not be there? To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 20:00:47 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi there, In 2.1R st.c there is a line that reads: #define SCSI_2_MAX_DENSITY_CODE 0x17 /* maximum density code specified * in SCSI II spec. */ In it's own right this is OK, but it also is a (unwanted??) limitation. I stumbled across it when I wanted to set my DLT drive to use hardware compression. It can be set to do compression using 0x81 as density. This is of course vendor specific, and not according to SCSI-2 (as far as I can see). On the other hand the driver effectively blocks you in setting up the drive. Is there any reason to keep this check in the st.c? If you send an invalid (for that particular tape device) value you will get a reject anyway, flagging an invalid request. Comments? _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 19 07:37:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA29326 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 07:37:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailbox.neosoft.com (mailbox.neosoft.com [206.109.1.16]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA29319 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 07:37:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uuneo.neosoft.com (root@uuneo.neosoft.com [206.109.1.3]) by mailbox.neosoft.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA01480 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 09:37:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from taronga@localhost) by uuneo.neosoft.com (8.7.5/8.7.4) with UUCP id IAA23898 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 19 May 1996 08:51:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA00517; Sun, 19 May 1996 08:41:04 -0500 To: hackers@freebsd.org Path: not-for-mail From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Subject: Re: .forward and sendmail? Date: 19 May 1996 08:41:02 -0500 Organization: none Lines: 15 Message-ID: <4nn8de$g2@bonkers.taronga.com> References: <199604230332.FAA21276@uriah.heep.sax.de> <199604231358.JAA05012@crh.cl.msu.edu> X-No-Archive: yes Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199604231358.JAA05012@crh.cl.msu.edu>, Charles Henrich wrote: >Yes but think about it, .forwards WILL NOT WORK USUALLY EVER if sendmail doesnt >read .forward's as root! This is a design flaw in sendmail. .forwards should really be maintained in a centralized directory by a setuid program like mail is. >Most home directories are 700! I tend to set mine to 711. >This is a *bug* not a feature. Yes. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 19 08:00:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA00783 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 08:00:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dg-rtp.dg.com (dg-rtp.rtp.dg.com [128.222.1.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA00778 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 08:00:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dg-rtp.dg.com (5.4R3.10/dg-rtp-v02) id AA26519; Sun, 19 May 1996 11:00:24 -0400 Received: from ponds by dg-rtp.dg.com.rtp.dg.com; Sun, 19 May 1996 11:00 EDT Received: from lakes (lakes [192.96.3.39]) by ponds.UUCP (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA21566 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 09:15:09 -0400 Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA01460 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sun, 19 May 1996 09:15:29 -0400 Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 09:15:29 -0400 From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199605191315.JAA01460@lakes> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: 2.1-RELEASE sound fixes for Opti 82c929. Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well - Using the 2.2-current sources as an example, along with the specs from Opti; I've managed to hack 82C929 support into the 2.1-RELEASE sound drivers. Also, I made one fix; if all you have is a "mss0" config line; the sound system isn't configured (a trival fix to local.h) In fact; I've gone one step beyond 2.2-current. 2.2-current only supports the 82C929 in WSS mode. I didn't like the clicking that accompanies the WSS driver; so I hacked support for putting the card in SB-Pro mode. That works much better... The code I have follows the 2.1 scheme of requiring a compile-time option for MAD16 support - OPTI_MAD16. However; it could easily be made non-optional since there is a probe for the MAD16 chips. I'd like to mail the diffs to someone for inclusion into 2.1-STABLE, who would that be? - Thanks - - Dave Rivers - p.s. It's nice to (finally) be able to contribute something again :-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 19 09:06:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA03347 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 09:06:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rogerswave.ca (mail.rogerswave.ca [198.231.117.195]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA03342 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 09:06:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wong.rogerswave.ca (wong.rogerswave.ca [204.92.17.32]) by rogerswave.ca (8.7.2/8.7.2) with SMTP id MAA08932; Sun, 19 May 1996 12:17:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 11:46:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Wong To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "Brett L. Hawn" , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: hrmm In-Reply-To: <13423.832320033@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 17 May 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I've been sitting here watching ICMPs for kicks and I had an idea though I > > can't say as how useful it might be... I was thinking of a kernel level ICMP > > logging utility that would be set using sysctl with appx 3 different levels > > of logging. > > Or how about this idea: > > Have a general purpose packet-filter device (call it, say, bpfilter) > and a program to read from it in whatever detail you wish. We could > call that program `tcpdump' :-) ^^^^^^^ say can the author include some feature of 'snoop' in the sun box. snoop seems eazier to understand. > > Jordan > > Ken ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "we come with nothing, and we leave with nothing" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 19 10:50:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA27811 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 10:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xs1.simplex.nl (xs1.simplex.NL [193.78.46.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA27801 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 10:50:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Organisation-1: Simplex Networking Amsterdam X (Inter)Network X-Organisation-2: Kruislaan 419-38a 1098 VA Amsterdam X Solutions & X-Organisation-3: tel:+31(20)-6932433 fax:+31(20)-6685486 X Access Provider Received: (from uucp@localhost) by xs1.simplex.nl (8.7.5/8.7.3-RS) with UUCP id TAA05691; Sun, 19 May 1996 19:50:11 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from plm@localhost) by plm.simplex.nl (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA15612; Sun, 19 May 1996 13:30:54 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 13:30:54 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199605191130.NAA15612@plm.simplex.nl> From: Peter Mutsaers To: nate@sri.MT.net CC: terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: <199605190343.VAA02628@rocky.sri.MT.net> (message from Nate Williams on Sat, 18 May 1996 21:43:20 -0600) Subject: Re: internal compiler error Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> On Sat, 18 May 1996 21:43:20 -0600 you wrote: >> Who says 2.6.3 is bug free? There is always a small chance for >> compiler bugs. In those rare cases a workaround may be needed. I >> doubt that the latest release of 2.7.2 (2.7.2.9) has more bugs than >> 2.6.3 had. NW> There *are* some workaround for gcc 2.6.3 in the tree, but they are NW> *known* bugs, where the bugs in gcc 2.7.2 are unknown, or known well NW> enough to know they aren't worth the effort to workaround. NW> Can I count on you to compile *EVERYTHING* you get your hands on NW> when gcc 2.7.3 is released? This means compiling the entire NW> world, XFree86, and all other programs you use on an everyday NW> basis to make sure nothing breaks? That relatively simple task NW> (lots of time, but not alot of expertise required) is the reason NW> 2.7.2 didn't go into the tree. Things were broken, and we don't NW> have the time nor desire to go and find out why when the current NW> compiler works for all the source code distributed. OK, I can do that. If it helps to get gcc 2.7.3 in, I will. However, I was doing a make world today with pgcc (2.7.2p) and found that the assembler has a problem with the .weak directive as produced by this version. As said before, the binutils shall have to be upgraded too. But I totally lack the background in this area and in FreeBSD history do do that, alas. I can assist someone who knows more about it however. -- ______________________________________________________________________ Peter Mutsaers | Abcoude (Utrecht), | "Quod licet bovis, plm@simplex.nl | the Netherlands | non licet Jovi." From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 19 11:06:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA01666 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 11:06:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA01646 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 11:06:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.7.5/BSD4.4) id EAA11510 Mon, 20 May 1996 04:05:48 +1000 (EST) From: michael butler Message-Id: <199605191805.EAA11510@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: A MMAP observation To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 04:05:46 +1000 (EST) Cc: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Nate Williams wrote: > > iODBC driver manager 2.10 has just been released. To which I asked .. > Is there such a thing as a server-side driver .. say for mSQL or similar ? Just as a pointer .. and in answering my own question .. >From the Postgres95 page at http://epoch.CS.Berkeley.EDU:8000/postgres95/ I found a link for PostODBC at http://stud1.tuwien.ac.at/~e9025461/ which describes (and offers the source for) a 16-bit DLL to do precisely what I was after .. to hook a Windoze box to a FreeBSD-served database rather than to just read news. Now to see if I can throw this yucky commercial stuff away completely :-) michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 19 12:12:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA06121 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 12:12:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA06116 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 12:12:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA26221; Sun, 19 May 1996 12:08:11 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605191908.MAA26221@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: internal compiler error To: plm@simplex.nl (Peter Mutsaers) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 12:08:11 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605180724.JAA15835@plm.simplex.nl> from "Peter Mutsaers" at May 18, 96 09:24:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > TL> I guarantee that I can make any code you can name run 50% faster. > > TL> Provided it does not have to produce correct output (a condition you > TL> seem to be willing to accept). > > I think you are exaggerating a bit about the reliability of 2.7.2. [ ... ] > Who says 2.6.3 is bug free? There is always a small chance for > compiler bugs. In those rare cases a workaround may be needed. I > doubt that the latest release of 2.7.2 (2.7.2.9) has more bugs than > 2.6.3 had. 2.6.3 is definitely *not* "bug free"... but as the saying goes, better the devil you know. There are already workarounds in the source tree for any 2.6.3 bugs, but any 2.7.2 bugs not in 2.6.3 would have to have cruft added. The problem with kruft is that it's rarely removed once added. I wish the source control system could have "kruft tags" for branches so that source changes made to accomodate compiler quirks were easily seperable from source changes for other reasons. But it can't. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 19 12:27:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA06839 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 12:27:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA06834 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 12:27:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA03693; Sun, 19 May 1996 13:27:04 -0600 Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 13:27:04 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605191927.NAA03693@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Peter Mutsaers Cc: nate@sri.MT.net, terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: internal compiler error In-Reply-To: <199605191130.NAA15612@plm.simplex.nl> References: <199605190343.VAA02628@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199605191130.NAA15612@plm.simplex.nl> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > NW> Can I count on you to compile *EVERYTHING* you get your hands on > NW> when gcc 2.7.3 is released? > OK, I can do that. If it helps to get gcc 2.7.3 in, I will. > However, I was doing a make world today with pgcc (2.7.2p) and found > that the assembler has a problem with the .weak directive as produced > by this version. As said before, the binutils shall have to be > upgraded too. Actually, they don't. You simply need to tell gcc not to emit the weak directives. See the patches in ports/lang/gcc-2.7 or ports/lang/pgcc. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 19 12:31:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA07507 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 12:31:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA07489 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 12:31:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id VAA27551; Sun, 19 May 1996 21:30:21 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA26463; Sun, 19 May 1996 21:30:20 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA00369; Sun, 19 May 1996 20:55:55 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605191855.UAA00369@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: .forward and sendmail? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 20:55:55 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <4nn8de$g2@bonkers.taronga.com> from Peter da Silva at "May 19, 96 08:41:02 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Peter da Silva wrote: > Charles Henrich wrote: > >Yes but think about it, .forwards WILL NOT WORK USUALLY EVER if sendmail doesnt > >read .forward's as root! > > This is a design flaw in sendmail. .forwards should really be maintained in > a centralized directory by a setuid program like mail is. You can have this if you want, sendmail is full of hooks where you can hang an additional alias file upon. The benefit of ~/.forward is that each user can simply handle his own forwarding. > >Most home directories are 700! > > I tend to set mine to 711. ...so .forward will work. > >This is a *bug* not a feature. > > Yes. No. It has been deliberately chosen to be this way (the UID is reset in order to read the .forward files). UTSL. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 19 12:49:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA10314 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 12:49:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from feyuri.microsoft.com (feyuri.microsoft.com [131.107.243.53]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA10288; Sun, 19 May 1996 12:49:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by feyuri.microsoft.com with Microsoft Exchange (IMC 4.0.948.0) id <01BB4581.99A97D20@feyuri.microsoft.com>; Sun, 19 May 1996 12:49:21 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Scott Overholser (Volt Computer) (Exchange)" To: "'Scott Overholser'" , "'Doug Wellington'" Cc: "'freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG'" , "'freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" , "'freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG'" , "'freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: RE: sendmail read errors/timeouts etc. Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 12:49:29 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.948.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk good questions...i didn't include this info in the mail since it was pretty wordy already and the system is a stock freebsd system - no surprises. the sendmail version is 8.6.12. i didn't keep my sendmail.cf from before. the sendmail.cf i'm using is the one that is installed with the stock system with the only change being the addition of "remuda.com" to the Cw line. the timeouts i set are all either 1 hour (for stuff like mail, and quit) and 2 hours for rcpt and data. the defaults are usually about 10 minutes. the gateway is very lightly loaded. also, telnet to port 25 of the problem sites works just fine. one more detail that i should have mentioned before. the sites that i have trouble with don't seem to have anything in common. the microsoft folks are obviously running ms exchange with the smtp gateway on winders nt. i think the nintendo site is linux and it's running smap. i don't have a clue what msn is using but gonna guess that winders nt is involved. i'd like to reiterate that the problems are 100% reproducable with the sites i'm having trouble with while mail to everyone else works just fine. i did some testing with another freebsd box (stock install again) and the sites that are causing problems for my box don't affect it (i built both, both are on different net connections). i stole it's sendmail.cf but it didn't help. i'm gonna rebuild and see if that helps. i'll post results to the lists. scotto >---------- >From: Doug Wellington[SMTP:doug@sun1paztcn.wr.usgs.gov] >Sent: Saturday, May 18, 1996 12:26 AM >To: Scott Overholser >Cc: Scott Overholser (Volt Computer) (Exchange); >freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG; freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; >freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG; freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG; >doug@sun1paztcn.wr.usgs.gov >Subject: Re: sendmail read errors/timeouts etc. > >Previously: >>i recently replaced my email gateway with a freebsd 2.1.0 box. prior to >>that it was a linux box (different hardware) running sendmail 8.6.11 and >>100% trouble free. now though, i am seeing sendmail errors when sending to >>a few select sites. in addition, i see them when i receive from the same >>sites. > >Well, I'm gonna start with a couple dumb questions... What version of >sendmail are you running? I think the most recent is 8.7.5... When you >switched, did you keep a copy of your old sendmail.cf? Have you done a >diff on the old vs. the new? I know you said that your timeouts were >very high, but exactly what is the r option? I used to run with 15m, >but that isn't long enough anymore. Try at least 30m or maybe even 1h >or more... Also, do you have any problems with a connection to those sites >if you do it manually (with telnet)? How heavily is your gateway loaded? >If you have a heavy load, you may want to consider using a more efficient >mailer than sendmail... > >-Doug > >Doug Wellington >doug@sun1paztcn.wr.usgs.gov >System and Network Administrator >US Geological Survey, Tucson, AZ Project Office > >According to proposed Federal guidelines, this message is a "non-record". >Hmm, I wonder if _everything_ I say is a "non-record"... > >FreeBSD and Apache - the best real tools for the virtual world! >Check out www.freebsd.org and www.apache.org, and for you music >types, check out TCLMidi... > >God, I wonder what Apple is going to mess up next? Have they been >taking lessons from Novell? > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 19 13:31:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA18575 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 13:31:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA18565 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 13:31:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA00580; Sun, 19 May 1996 13:30:22 -0700 (PDT) To: Toshihiro Kanda cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Does /stand/sysinstall overwrite existing system? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 16 May 1996 21:39:29 +0900." <199605161239.VAA05852@xxx.fct.kgc.co.jp> Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 13:30:22 -0700 Message-ID: <578.832537822@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I see, thank you. What I really wanted to do is capturing the > sysinstall screen images. (My goal is publishing "Install guide" WWW > pages with these graphics.) I could do this by xv(l), kterm(1) and > vga font came with pcemu(1); please see Well, if you're willing to document the -current sysinstall instead (or edit the screen-shots that look different, most menus are the same), that version has a command-line switch called `-fake' which, if specified, causes all the system modifying commands to be skipped. It basically just puts sysinstall into simulation mode (with lots of debugging printfs going to the sysinstall.debug file) for someone trying to test its control flow without blowing the underlying system away. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 19 13:48:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA21948 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 13:48:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cygnus.ucdavis.edu (root@cygnus.ucdavis.edu [128.120.2.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA21932 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 13:48:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.ucdavis.edu (itchris@localhost.ucdavis.edu [127.0.0.1]) by cygnus.ucdavis.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA01659 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 13:48:16 -0700 Message-Id: <199605192048.NAA01659@cygnus.ucdavis.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: routes, i'm stumped From: Chris Lambertus X-URL: http://cygnus.ucdavis.edu Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 13:48:15 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I've got a problem with routes on my slip server that's been plaguing me since I set it up. I've been through every reference I could find on the matter, and I'm completely stumped. I posted this to the freebsd newsgroups and once awhile ago to -users, but nobody had any ideas, so I'm hoping you guys will. My slip server is running 2.1-R. I use mgetty and sliplogin to assign routes and proxy arp entries. On the client side, I use startslip to dial in and establish the interface and routes on the client side. The client is running 2.0.5. The client side has two interfaces, ed0 and sl0. There are 5 machines on the ethernet segment that are being routed over the slip line. There are three problems, two of which appear to be related. 1. The slip server has a tendency to reboot once every 5-10 days. I cannot explain this (no hardware faults, no power failures that I can determine.) Is there a way I can debug this? I tried enabling kernel crash dumps, but it doesn't generate any when it crashes/reboots. Is there any other recourse for debugging this kind of thing? 2. Occasionally, the slip connection will die. The modems stay connected (two BOCA 28.8's) but the network connection stops functioning. To re-establish it, I have to HUP startslip and wait for it to redial. Once it redials, the connection comes back up. I suspect this might just be bad phone lines, but I would expect carrier to drop, which it doesn't. 3. (The worst one.) Every now and then, one of my routes dissapears. This is the one I'm dying to get fixed. On the slip server: # netstat -rn | egrep '226|227' 128.120.2.226 link#1 UHLW 3 349 128.120.2.226 0:40:5:19:fa:6d ULS2c 0 0 ed0 128.120.2.227 128.120.2.238 UGHS 3 24846 sl0 => 128.120.2.227 0:40:5:19:fa:6d ULS2c 0 0 ed0 # arp -a |egrep '226|227' punq.ucdavis.edu (128.120.2.226) at (incomplete) punq.ucdavis.edu (128.120.2.226) at 0:40:5:19:fa:6d permanent published mozzie.ucdavis.edu (128.120.2.227) at 0:40:5:19:fa:6d permanent published 128.120.2.238 is the slip client endpoint. Both 226 and 227 are machines behind the slip client on the ethernet. Notice how 226 on the slip *server* has become a link entry when it ought to be a static route entry. This is set up in slip.login as follows: /usr/sbin/arp -s 128.120.2.226 0:40:5:19:fa:6d pub /usr/sbin/arp -s 128.120.2.227 0:40:5:19:fa:6d pub /sbin/route add 128.120.2.226 128.120.2.238 /sbin/route add 128.120.2.227 128.120.2.238 I don't see why the 226 route would alter itself or what would cause it to be altered. Neither routed or gated are running on either machine. To fix this temporarily (until it vanishes again, maybe the next day) # route delete 128.120.2.226 delete host 128.120.2.226 # route delete 128.120.2.226 delete host 128.120.2.226 # route delete 128.120.2.226 writing to routing socket: No such process delete host 128.120.2.226: not in table # route add 128.120.2.226 128.120.2.238 add host 128.120.2.226: gateway 128.120.2.238 # arp -s 128.120.2.226 0:40:5:19:fa:6d pub # netstat -rn | egrep '226|227' 128.120.2.226 128.120.2.238 UGHS 0 3 sl0 128.120.2.226 0:40:5:19:fa:6d UHLS2 0 0 ed0 128.120.2.227 128.120.2.238 UGHS 3 28073 sl0 => 128.120.2.227 0:40:5:19:fa:6d ULS2c 0 0 ed0 So, that's my problem. Does anyone have any ideas why this is happening and what I can do to fix it? Thanks, -Chris -- Christopher M. Lambertus | cmlambertus@ucdavis.edu IR Distributed Systems Security | Office: (916) 754-9022 University of California | Fax: (916) 752-9154 Davis, California 95616 | Gabbpuy! 4400 forever! From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 19 13:58:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA22751 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 13:58:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from okjunc.junction.net (root@okjunc.junction.net [199.166.227.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA22718; Sun, 19 May 1996 13:58:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by okjunc.junction.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id NAA26446; Sun, 19 May 1996 13:13:22 -0700 Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 13:56:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dillon To: a-scotov@microsoft.com cc: "'freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG'" , "'freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" , "'freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG'" , "'freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: RE: sendmail read errors/timeouts etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 19 May 1996, Scott Overholser (Volt Computer) (Exchange) wrote: > nt. i think the nintendo site is linux and it's running smap. Uhhhh... bash$ /usr/sbin/nslookup -q=mx nintendo.com Server: sidhe.memra.com Address: 10.10.10.1 nintendo.com preference = 1, mail exchanger = samus.nintendo.com nintendo.com nameserver = orcu.or.br.np.els-gms.att.net nintendo.com nameserver = ohcu.oh.mt.np.els-gms.att.net samus.nintendo.com internet address = 205.166.76.2 orcu.or.br.np.els-gms.att.net internet address = 199.191.129.139 ohcu.oh.mt.np.els-gms.att.net internet address = 199.191.144.75 bash$ telnet samus.nintendo.com 25 Trying 205.166.76.2... Connected to samus.nintendo.com. Escape character is '^]'. 220- samus.nintendo.com Sendmail 950215.SGI.8.6.10/940406.SGI.AUTO ready at Sun, 19 May 1996 13:52:13 -0700 220 ESMTP spoken here quit In the past I have heard that SGI's can cause some problems with other TCP/IP stacks because they have some internal timings tuned too fast. This was in relation to http. Could there be a connection? Michael Dillon Voice: +1-604-546-8022 Memra Software Inc. Fax: +1-604-546-3049 http://www.memra.com E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 19 14:26:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA24137 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 14:26:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from io.org (io.org [198.133.36.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA24132; Sun, 19 May 1996 14:26:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zap.io.org (taob@zap.io.org [198.133.36.81]) by io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA25218; Sun, 19 May 1996 17:26:23 -0400 Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 17:26:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: FREEBSD-SCSI-L cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: Re: Who wants a DPT SCSI controller driver? In-Reply-To: <199605180336.GAA12140@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I received a reply from Mark Salyzyn the other day, and it looks like the chances of getting a FreeBSD driver are quite good. They already have one for BSD/OS, and Mark feels it would be trivial to port it to FreeBSD. Among the products they offer is a RAID controller that can stripe 42 drives together into a single SCSI target ID... :) -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org, taob@ican.net) Systems and Network Administrator, Internet Canada Corp. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 19 14:36:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA24697 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 14:36:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from io.org (io.org [198.133.36.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA24691 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 14:36:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zap.io.org (taob@zap.io.org [198.133.36.81]) by io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA25988; Sun, 19 May 1996 17:34:04 -0400 Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 17:33:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: invalid opcode cc: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: Re: Slow tty updates and high load, but idle CPU In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 17 May 1996, invalid opcode wrote: > > Check your stty settings, particularly baud rate. As I said, the problem is not related to stty settings. Anyone using the machine experiences it, whether they are on when it first starts, or login once the server is in this state. I'm not sure where the problem lies, but it would appear to be at the tty device driver level. I have not yet checked to see if different ttys are updated all at once, or in round-robin fashion. However, all experience the one-second delay between updates. A stuck select() somewhere, perhaps? -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org, taob@ican.net) Systems and Network Administrator, Internet Canada Corp. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 19 14:38:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA24757 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 14:38:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from io.org (io.org [198.133.36.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA24750 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 14:38:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zap.io.org (taob@zap.io.org [198.133.36.81]) by io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA26214; Sun, 19 May 1996 17:36:49 -0400 Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 17:36:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: Robert Withrow cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slow tty updates and high load, but idle CPU In-Reply-To: <199605182108.RAA04050@spooky.rwwa.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 18 May 1996, Robert Withrow wrote: > > I have seen the behavior once with my P6-200 worstation on 2.1R. It > started one afternoon (a few days agon) after the machine had been up > for days. Xterm windows and other more-or-less tty-looking things > started updating in chunks every 1 second. Yes, yes, yes.... thank God I'm not the only one who has seen this problem. ;-) > I tried killing things (like the X server, etc...) and other diddling > but only a reboot cured it. This has only happened once in several > months of almost constant heavy use, but it was rather scary once it > started.... What is your definition of "heavy use"? The shell servers here always have at least 20 interactive users logged in, and can go as high as 100 users in the late evenings, 7 days a week. I can almost guarantee this problem will appear after about two weeks of uptime. -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org, taob@ican.net) Systems and Network Administrator, Internet Canada Corp. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 19 15:20:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA27993 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 15:20:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yuri.microsoft.com (exchange.microsoft.com [131.107.243.48]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA27961; Sun, 19 May 1996 15:20:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by yuri.microsoft.com with Microsoft Exchange (IMC 4.0.838.14) id <01BB4596.996A44B0@yuri.microsoft.com>; Sun, 19 May 1996 15:19:40 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Scott Overholser (Volt Computer) (Exchange)" To: "'Michael Dillon'" Cc: "'freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG'" , "'freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" , "'freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG'" , "'freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: RE: sendmail read errors/timeouts etc. Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 15:05:10 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.838.14 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk actually, the domain of interest for nintendo of america is "noa.com" and the mail host is called bowser.noa.com. i've never sent mail to nintendo.com. i have not discovered anything in common among the sites i'm having trouble with (other than the fact that my box is having trouble with all of them - hmm maybe that should tell me something %^) i'm surprised that with all the folks that've had problems with this in the various versions of freebsd over the last year that nobody really nailed it down. i was gonna search the netbsd list archives but they aren't as easy to get at as the freebsd archives are (no smurfy html form - gotta go get 'em and grep through 'em) - i thought it'd be interesting to find out if the netbsd'ers have experienced the same difficulties. oh well, that'll be that bottom of the barrel strategy. scotto >---------- >From: Michael Dillon[SMTP:michael@memra.com] >Sent: Sunday, May 19, 1996 1:56 PM >To: Scott Overholser (Volt Computer) (Exchange) >Cc: 'freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG'; 'freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'; >'freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG'; 'freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG' >Subject: RE: sendmail read errors/timeouts etc. > >On Sun, 19 May 1996, Scott Overholser (Volt Computer) (Exchange) wrote: > >> nt. i think the nintendo site is linux and it's running smap. > >Uhhhh... > >bash$ /usr/sbin/nslookup -q=mx nintendo.com >Server: sidhe.memra.com >Address: 10.10.10.1 > >nintendo.com preference = 1, mail exchanger = samus.nintendo.com >nintendo.com nameserver = orcu.or.br.np.els-gms.att.net >nintendo.com nameserver = ohcu.oh.mt.np.els-gms.att.net >samus.nintendo.com internet address = 205.166.76.2 >orcu.or.br.np.els-gms.att.net internet address = 199.191.129.139 >ohcu.oh.mt.np.els-gms.att.net internet address = 199.191.144.75 >bash$ telnet samus.nintendo.com 25 >Trying 205.166.76.2... >Connected to samus.nintendo.com. >Escape character is '^]'. >220- samus.nintendo.com Sendmail 950215.SGI.8.6.10/940406.SGI.AUTO >ready >at Sun, 19 May 1996 13:52:13 -0700 >220 ESMTP spoken here >quit > >In the past I have heard that SGI's can cause some problems with other >TCP/IP stacks because they have some internal timings tuned too fast. >This was in relation to http. Could there be a connection? > >Michael Dillon Voice: >+1-604-546-8022 >Memra Software Inc. Fax: >+1-604-546-3049 >http://www.memra.com E-mail: >michael@memra.com > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 19 15:41:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA01914 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 15:41:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA01896 for hackers; Sun, 19 May 1996 15:41:07 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199605192241.PAA01896@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: calling all tape drives To: hackers Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 15:41:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk if you have a tape drive that your use successfully plese send me the dmesg output for the drive any quirks that the drive exhibits any tricks you needed to get the drive working i will be incorporating the data into the tape/backup handbook entry thanks! jmb -- Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD--4.4BSD Unix for PC clones, source included. http://www.freebsd.org/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 19 16:21:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA07253 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 16:21:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA07248 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 16:21:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id BAA02469; Mon, 20 May 1996 01:21:03 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id BAA28912; Mon, 20 May 1996 01:21:03 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA03191; Mon, 20 May 1996 01:18:29 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605192318.BAA03191@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: routes, i'm stumped To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 01:18:29 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: cmlambertus@ucdavis.edu (Chris Lambertus) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605192048.NAA01659@cygnus.ucdavis.edu> from Chris Lambertus at "May 19, 96 01:48:15 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Chris Lambertus wrote: > There are three problems, two of which appear to be related. (I can only say something to the first one.) > 1. The slip server has a tendency to reboot once every 5-10 days. > I cannot explain this (no hardware faults, no power failures that > I can determine.) Is there a way I can debug this? I tried enabling > kernel crash dumps, but it doesn't generate any when it crashes/reboots. > Is there any other recourse for debugging this kind of thing? I've seen such behaviour (either system hangs, or spontaneous reboots) with a server running FreeBSD 2.0.5 in our company. It's also using an ed0 interface. The problem reduced by the day some (network) load has been taken off this server, but only to got worse the day we moved the ``tcpdump'' router watcher to it. Since this tcpdump used to run well on another (smaller) machine before, i started to look for differences between both systems. I finally found that there have been many changes in the `ed' driver, simply moved the new driver (from some February SNAP) over, killed a few things related to PCCARD systems and thus irrelevant to this box, and gave it a try. This machine ran nicely ever since... -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 19 18:38:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA14130 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 18:38:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA14123; Sun, 19 May 1996 18:38:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA20392; Mon, 20 May 1996 11:20:56 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605200150.LAA20392@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Who wants a DPT SCSI controller driver? To: taob@io.org (Brian Tao) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 11:20:55 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at May 19, 96 05:26:07 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Brian Tao stands accused of saying: > > I received a reply from Mark Salyzyn the other day, and it looks > like the chances of getting a FreeBSD driver are quite good. They > already have one for BSD/OS, and Mark feels it would be trivial to > port it to FreeBSD. Among the products they offer is a RAID > controller that can stripe 42 drives together into a single SCSI > target ID... :) This would be Very Good 8). If they're really nice to us, they might even win a 'preferred supplier' gong 8) Seriously, if their stuff is any good I can see a lot of serious customers jumping at the opportunity. > Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org, taob@ican.net) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 19 19:13:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA15997 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 19:13:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from io.org (io.org [198.133.36.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA15992; Sun, 19 May 1996 19:12:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zap.io.org (taob@zap.io.org [198.133.36.81]) by io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA19715; Sun, 19 May 1996 22:12:45 -0400 Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 22:12:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: Michael Smith cc: freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Who wants a DPT SCSI controller driver? In-Reply-To: <199605200150.LAA20392@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 May 1996, Michael Smith wrote: > > Seriously, if their stuff is any good I can see a lot of serious > customers jumping at the opportunity. The hardware definitely looks good on paper, and the price point starts around the level of the current crop of Adaptecs. As I told Mark at DPT, FreeBSD already has the software muscle to be the top contender as an NFS server, now it needs some equally potent hardware to back it up. 42 of those new 23GB Seagate drives per controller, four controllers per machine == 3TB of *usable* filesystem space (hi, Satoshi!). :) -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org, taob@ican.net) Systems and Network Administrator, Internet Canada Corp. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 19 19:58:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA19657 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 19:58:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA19650 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 19:58:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA00774; Mon, 20 May 1996 12:54:29 +1000 Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 12:54:29 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199605200254.MAA00774@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: coredump@nervosa.com, taob@io.org Subject: Re: Slow tty updates and high load, but idle CPU Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >all at once, or in round-robin fashion. However, all experience the >one-second delay between updates. A stuck select() somewhere, perhaps? ttwrite() is probably sleeping on lbolt. This should be easy to check by looking at the sleep address in ps output. ttwrite() sleeps on lbolt when the system runs out of clists. clists may run out because they are broken as designed or because of a bug that was fixed in -current on 1995/12/15 and in -stable on 1996/01/03. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 19 20:08:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA20238 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 20:08:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA20161 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 20:08:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA04583; Sun, 19 May 1996 21:07:58 -0600 Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 21:07:58 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605200307.VAA04583@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: DNS question Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thanks to everyone for showing me how to have control of our sub-classed C network using the: Classless in-addr.arpa delegation In any case, I even got my ISP to set this up. Seems that they got a whole bunch of addresses are were told they have to break them out into smaller chunks, and the demand was great enough from all of us to make them actually implement this. OK, so they're setup to do the dirty work for us, but things don't seem to be working correctly. I've tenatively set things up on two FreeBSD boxes and munged on the files to have it appear that one box is the primary for the entire class C, and the other box is the primary for the sub-class, using the information from the above RFC. Rather than boring everyone to death with *all* the detail, let me summarize as best as I can. gateway:/etc/namedb/new # nslookup Default Server: localhost.sri.MT.net Address: 127.0.0.1 > 206.127.76.97 Server: localhost.sri.MT.net Address: 127.0.0.1 Name: ns.mt.sri.com Address: 206.127.76.97 Aliases: 97.76.127.206.in-addr.arpa > gateway:/etc/namedb/new # host 206.127.76.97 Host not found, try again. And, using 'dnswalk' (Thanks John) there isn't any PTR records (see results of 'host'), but nslookup can do reverse DNS. "gateway" - Master site (Owner of the class C) ==================================== named.boot ---------- primary 76.127.206.in-addr.arpa Class-C.rev secondary 96.76.127.206.in-addr.arpa 10.5.5.67 206.127.76.96 Class-C.rev ----------- @ IN SOA gateway.sri.MT.net. admin.gateway.sri.MT.net. ( .. ; ; Name Servers ; IN NS gatway.sri.MT.net. .. ; ; 32 addresses (-1) for SRI-Montana 96 IN NS trout.sri.MT.net. IN NS ns.mt.sri.com. 97 IN CNAME 97.96.76.127.206.in-addr.arpa. .... So, 'gateway' is the primary for the entire class C, and 'trout' is the primary for the subnet. "trout"-Sub-net master (Owner of 32 IP #'s in the class C) ==================================== named.boot ---------- primary 96.76.127.206.in-addr.arpa sri.rev secondary 76.127.206.in-addr.arpa 204.182.243.1 206.127.76.rev sri.rev ------- @ IN SOA trout.sri.MT.net. nate.trout.sri.MT.net. ( .. IN NS trout.sri.MT.net. IN PTR networkname.mt.sri.com. IN A 255.255.255.32 ; I'm unsure of the relevance of the above two lines, but they are part ; of the RFC ; ;;; Permanent machines ; ;96 - All zero's address 97 IN PTR ns.mt.sri.com. ;98 IN PTR *.mt.sri.com. ;99 IN PTR *.mt.sri.com. 100 IN PTR rocky.mt.sri.com. .... So, that should be enough information to let people recreate the problem. Any clues? I'm certainly no DNS wizard, and the only reason I'm this far along is because everyone else has been so helpful. Thanks! Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 19 20:43:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA21905 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 20:43:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from io.org (io.org [198.133.36.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA21893 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 20:43:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zap.io.org (taob@zap.io.org [198.133.36.81]) by io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA28983; Sun, 19 May 1996 23:42:42 -0400 Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 23:42:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: Bruce Evans cc: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: Re: Slow tty updates and high load, but idle CPU In-Reply-To: <199605200254.MAA00774@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 May 1996, Bruce Evans wrote: > > ttwrite() is probably sleeping on lbolt. This should be easy to check > by looking at the sleep address in ps output. Tell me if I'm on the right track: "nm /kernel | fgrep lbolt" gives me the address 0xf01d605c. Judging by the output of "ps axO nwchan", I should look for processes waiting at 1d605c? > ttwrite() sleeps on lbolt when the system runs out of clists. clists > may run out because they are broken as designed or because of a bug > that was fixed in -current on 1995/12/15 and in -stable on 1996/01/03. I'll check back on this in a couple of weeks, perhaps upgrade one of the machines to the May 1 snapshot. -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org, taob@ican.net) Systems and Network Administrator, Internet Canada Corp. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 19 21:08:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA22730 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 21:08:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA22725 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 21:08:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA03165; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:03:34 +1000 Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 14:03:34 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199605200403.OAA03165@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, taob@io.org Subject: Re: Slow tty updates and high load, but idle CPU Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> ttwrite() is probably sleeping on lbolt. This should be easy to check >> by looking at the sleep address in ps output. > Tell me if I'm on the right track: "nm /kernel | fgrep lbolt" >gives me the address 0xf01d605c. Judging by the output of >"ps axO nwchan", I should look for processes waiting at 1d605c? No, just look at the strings in `ps lax' output. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 19 21:14:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA23010 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 21:14:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from io.org (io.org [198.133.36.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA23005 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 21:14:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zap.io.org (taob@zap.io.org [198.133.36.81]) by io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA02623; Mon, 20 May 1996 00:14:33 -0400 Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 00:14:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: Bruce Evans cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slow tty updates and high load, but idle CPU In-Reply-To: <199605200403.OAA03165@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 May 1996, Bruce Evans wrote: > > >> ttwrite() is probably sleeping on lbolt. This should be easy to check > >> by looking at the sleep address in ps output. > > No, just look at the strings in `ps lax' output. Hrmm... I just look for "lbolt" in the WCHAN column then? -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org, taob@ican.net) Systems and Network Administrator, Internet Canada Corp. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 19 22:01:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA24492 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 May 1996 22:01:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA24485 for ; Sun, 19 May 1996 22:01:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA04750; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:56:44 +1000 Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 14:56:44 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199605200456.OAA04750@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, taob@io.org Subject: Re: Slow tty updates and high load, but idle CPU Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >> ttwrite() is probably sleeping on lbolt. This should be easy to check >> >> by looking at the sleep address in ps output. >> >> No, just look at the strings in `ps lax' output. > Hrmm... I just look for "lbolt" in the WCHAN column then? No, "lbolt" would be a very poor sleep message (and is never used) since it is unrelated to the reason for the sleep. To find the relevant messages you look for `lbolt' in the kernel sources. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 00:17:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA29544 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 00:17:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA29539 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 00:17:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA20879; Mon, 20 May 1996 17:00:02 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605200730.RAA20879@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Slow tty updates and high load, but idle CPU To: taob@io.org (Brian Tao) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 17:00:02 +0930 (CST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at May 19, 96 11:42:25 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Brian Tao stands accused of saying: > > On Mon, 20 May 1996, Bruce Evans wrote: > > > > ttwrite() is probably sleeping on lbolt. This should be easy to check > > by looking at the sleep address in ps output. > > Tell me if I'm on the right track: "nm /kernel | fgrep lbolt" > gives me the address 0xf01d605c. Judging by the output of > "ps axO nwchan", I should look for processes waiting at 1d605c? Try 'ps axl', which should list the names of the wait channels, or just 'ps axO wchan'. > Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org, taob@ican.net) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 00:54:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA01127 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 00:54:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.NL.net (ns.NL.net [193.78.240.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA01118 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 00:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spase by ns.NL.net via EUnet id AA07810 (5.65b/CWI-3.3); Mon, 20 May 1996 09:23:49 +0200 Received: from phobos.spase.nl (phobos [192.9.200.238]) by mercurius.spase.nl (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id JAA14319 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 09:19:08 +0200 From: Kees Jan Koster Received: (dutchman@localhost) by phobos.spase.nl (8.6.12/8.6.11) id JAA01835 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 20 May 1996 09:20:45 +0200 Message-Id: <199605200720.JAA01835@phobos.spase.nl> Subject: Glitch in install procedure. To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers Mailing list) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 09:20:45 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hoi Hackers, I just installed FreeBSD as a secondary OS on a machine. I dumped it into the upper 300 Mb of a 810 Mb disk. Funny thing is that neither the installation procedure, nor booteasy issued a warning that it would not be possible to actually boot from the partition, as it is beyond the reach of the BIOS. I'm not complaining, it just seems to me that it would be very easy to issue a warning message in this case. It would have saved me the 30 minutes it takes to install FreeBSD ;) Groetjes, Kees Jan ======================================================================v== Kees Jan Koster e-mail: dutchman@spase.nl Van Somerenstraat 50 tel: NL-24-3234708 6521 BS Nijmegen the Netherlands ========================================================================= Who is this general Failure and why is he reading my disk? (anonymous) ========================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 04:38:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA13410 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 04:38:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmu1.chiangmai.ac.th (cmu1.chiangmai.ac.th [192.203.247.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA13405 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 04:38:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by cmu1.chiangmai.ac.th (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA24457; Mon, 20 May 1996 18:35:48 -0700 Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 18:35:47 -0700 (GMT) From: Yongyuth Sukvanachaikul To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Netscape Proxy Server on FreeBSD Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I wish to use our FreeBSD 2.1-R machine as a Web Proxy Server. I look at Netscape Proxy Server software but it does not explicitly support FreeBSD. The only BSD it supports is BSDI(x86 2.0). Can this version run on FreeBSD 2.1-R right out of the box. If not can FreeBSD emulates BSDI or is there another Proxy Server software which support FreeBSD 2.1-R ? TIA From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 05:16:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA14328 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 05:16:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from longstreet.larc.nasa.gov (longstreet.larc.nasa.gov [128.155.25.82]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA14323 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 05:16:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from branson@localhost) by longstreet.larc.nasa.gov (8.6.11/8.6.11) id IAA13848 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 20 May 1996 08:19:12 -0400 From: Branson Matheson Message-Id: <199605201219.IAA13848@longstreet.larc.nasa.gov> Subject: - - To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers FreeBSD) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 08:19:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Since I have seen more than one person interested in this problem .. is it unreasonable to ask that this become a sysctl setting that could be changed ? Mabey somthing like hw.ctlaltdel = 1 > > Is there a way under FreeBSD not to have the machine rebooted when > pressing ctrl-alt-del as Linux does? This is an interesting discussion ;-) .. I will copy ( shamelessly ) from the mail archives: > > > Chien-Ta Lee writes: > > > > > > > How can I disable reboot from Ctrl-alt-Del ?! > > > > > > [suggestion to disable shutdown_nice() in syscons.c] > > > > Ugh. > > > > Why not just use kbdcontrol to load a slightly modified console > > keyboard map without an "RBT" token in it for the "Delete" key > > with the "Control" and "Alt" modifier bits present. > > Umpf. ;-) > > I don't think this would really disable "CTRL-ALT-DEL". Every user > would be able to bypass this restriction by loading another > unmodified keymap. Every user with this access to the console could press the reset button on the front panel, power off the box, unplud it from the wall, or drop it out the window. Why is a CTRL-ALT-DEL more likely than the least offensive of these (the reset switch)? -- ======================================================================== branson matheson | branson@widomaker.com Ferguson SysAdmin | http://widomaker.com/~branson From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 06:29:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA18374 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 06:29:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA18368 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 06:29:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA02952; Mon, 20 May 1996 06:27:39 -0700 (PDT) To: Yongyuth Sukvanachaikul cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Netscape Proxy Server on FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 May 1996 18:35:47 PDT." Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 06:27:39 -0700 Message-ID: <2946.832598859@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I wish to use our FreeBSD 2.1-R machine as a Web Proxy Server. I look at I think that Apache will also do this, if you coax it. > Netscape Proxy Server software but it does not explicitly support > FreeBSD. The only BSD it supports is BSDI(x86 2.0). Can this version You can run this under FreeBSD 2.2-current or 2.1-stable, but not the most recent release (e.g. you'd have to upgrade). See http://www.freebsd.org for more information on both. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 06:50:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA19408 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 06:50:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA19403 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 06:50:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailbox.mcs.com (Mailbox.mcs.com [192.160.127.87]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA11188; Mon, 20 May 1996 08:45:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mailbox.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Mon, 20 May 96 08:45 CDT Received: by mercury.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Mon, 20 May 96 08:45 CDT Message-Id: Subject: Re: Netscape Proxy Server on FreeBSD To: yong@cmu1.chiangmai.ac.th (Yongyuth Sukvanachaikul) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 08:45:44 -0500 (CDT) From: "Lars Jonas Olsson" Cc: jonas@mcs.net, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Yongyuth Sukvanachaikul" at May 20, 96 06:35:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Hi, > I wish to use our FreeBSD 2.1-R machine as a Web Proxy Server. I look at > Netscape Proxy Server software but it does not explicitly support > FreeBSD. The only BSD it supports is BSDI(x86 2.0). Can this version > run on FreeBSD 2.1-R right out of the box. If not can FreeBSD emulates > BSDI or is there another Proxy Server software which support FreeBSD > 2.1-R ? > TIA > I installed Netscape Proxy server 1.12 for BSDI 2.0 last Friday on a FreeBSD 2.1R system with no problems. The 2.* versions of the Netscape server will probably not work though as they are real BSDI 2.0 binaries (The 1.12 server is BSDI 1.* binaries). You can download the Netscape server from www.netscape.com for 60 day evaluation (First register and then use username and password to download). Jonas From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 06:53:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA19527 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 06:53:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA19522; Mon, 20 May 1996 06:53:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA03416; Mon, 20 May 1996 06:52:56 -0700 (PDT) To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: bde@freebsd.org Subject: Annoying mtree messages.. Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 06:52:56 -0700 Message-ID: <3414.832600376@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've long been annoyed by mtree output of the form: mtree -deU -f /a/src-current/etc/mtree/BSD.usr.dist -p /usr local: user (3, 0, modified) gid (7, 0, modified) missing: ./libdata/stallion (created) missing: ./obj (created) missing: ./share/calendar/ru_SU.KOI8-R (created) missing: ./src (not created: File exists) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ These spew out intermixed with the creations and valid permission adjustments and make them hard to see. I would like to propose that we make nuke all the "(not blah: File exists)" messages from mtree (unless you put it into verbose mode or something) so as to get more readable output from it in the future. Any objections? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 06:53:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA19577 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 06:53:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.fa.tdktca.com (alex@[163.49.131.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA19569 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 06:53:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from alex@localhost) by orion.fa.tdktca.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id IAA31105; Mon, 20 May 1996 08:57:04 -0500 Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 08:57:04 -0500 Message-Id: <199605201357.IAA31105@orion.fa.tdktca.com> From: Alex Nash To: jkh@time.cdrom.com Cc: yong@cmu1.chiangmai.ac.th, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Netscape Proxy Server on FreeBSD Reply-to: alex@fa.tdktca.com Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I wish to use our FreeBSD 2.1-R machine as a Web Proxy Server. > > I think that Apache will also do this, if you coax it. Are you sure? I think this is the one function Apache does not do (although it may be a loadable module in the future). I've been running Harvest here without any problems. See http://harvest.cs.colorado.edu/ A derivative of Harvest is also available: http://www.nlanr.net/Squid/ Alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 07:01:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA19939 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 07:01:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA19934 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 07:01:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA03472; Mon, 20 May 1996 07:00:33 -0700 (PDT) To: alex@fa.tdktca.com cc: yong@cmu1.chiangmai.ac.th, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Netscape Proxy Server on FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 May 1996 08:57:04 CDT." <199605201357.IAA31105@orion.fa.tdktca.com> Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 07:00:33 -0700 Message-ID: <3470.832600833@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > I wish to use our FreeBSD 2.1-R machine as a Web Proxy Server. > > > > I think that Apache will also do this, if you coax it. > > Are you sure? I think this is the one function Apache does not do > (although it may be a loadable module in the future). I could be confusing this with something else - I'll go back and check again. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 07:01:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA19992 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 07:01:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA19984 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 07:01:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA03483; Mon, 20 May 1996 07:01:05 -0700 (PDT) To: alex@fa.tdktca.com cc: yong@cmu1.chiangmai.ac.th, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Netscape Proxy Server on FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 May 1996 08:57:04 CDT." <199605201357.IAA31105@orion.fa.tdktca.com> Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 07:01:05 -0700 Message-ID: <3481.832600865@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > A derivative of Harvest is also available: > > http://www.nlanr.net/Squid/ Funny - someone just submitted a squid port. Guess we'll have to bring it in now. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 07:08:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA20238 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 07:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.fa.tdktca.com (root@[163.49.131.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA20233 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 07:08:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion (alex@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.fa.tdktca.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA31122; Mon, 20 May 1996 09:09:17 -0500 Message-ID: <31A07D0C.19904C47@fa.tdktca.com> Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 09:09:16 -0500 From: Alex Nash Organization: TDK Factory Automation X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; Linux 1.2.13 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: yong@cmu1.chiangmai.ac.th, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Netscape Proxy Server on FreeBSD References: <3470.832600833@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > I think that Apache will also do this, if you coax it. > > > > Are you sure? I think this is the one function Apache does not do > > (although it may be a loadable module in the future). > > I could be confusing this with something else - I'll go back and > check again. :-) I guess the upcoming 1.1 Apache will have proxy support, see: http://www.apache.org/docs/FAQ.html#proxy Alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 07:09:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA20288 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 07:09:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.fa.tdktca.com (root@[163.49.131.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA20283 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 07:09:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion (alex@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.fa.tdktca.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA31130; Mon, 20 May 1996 09:12:07 -0500 Message-ID: <31A07DB6.3649D859@fa.tdktca.com> Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 09:12:06 -0500 From: Alex Nash Organization: TDK Factory Automation X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; Linux 1.2.13 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: yong@cmu1.chiangmai.ac.th, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Netscape Proxy Server on FreeBSD References: <3481.832600865@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > A derivative of Harvest is also available: > > > > http://www.nlanr.net/Squid/ > > Funny - someone just submitted a squid port. Guess we'll have to > bring it in now. :-) :) Harvest is also available as a package in -current. Alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 07:13:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA20549 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 07:13:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unix.stylo.it ([193.76.98.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA20543 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 07:13:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from servernt.stylo.it (mail.stylo.it [193.76.98.4]) by unix.stylo.it (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA10411 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 16:18:54 +0200 Received: by servernt.stylo.it with Microsoft Exchange (IMC 4.12.736) id <01BB4667.178616A0@servernt.stylo.it>; Mon, 20 May 1996 16:12:07 +0200 Message-ID: From: Angelo Turetta To: "'Gary Aitken '" Cc: "'freebsd-hackers'" Subject: Re: user ppp with dedicated line Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 16:13:46 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.12.736 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BB4667.178616A0" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. Contact your mail administrator for information about upgrading your reader to a version that supports MIME. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB4667.178616A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit as Nate wrote: >By starting packet mode earlier with your patch I think are essentially >'forcing' the remote site to respond to you. If it's necessary to get >working then it's an acceptable hack, but I don't think it's generically >applicable. > >> 3. I'm having trouble getting ppp.linkup to be read when used with a >> dedicated line. It appears to be totally ignored when ppp is >> started as follows, with the above mods: >I think it might be ignored because of the above hack. PPP.LINKUP is >called by OsLinkup in IpcpLayerUp, but I'd have to take more time to >figure out when that is called. I've been in the same trouble before. In -dedicated mode, OsLinkup is called upon a low-to-high transition of the DCD, so if you start ppp with the line already up between the two modems (that's almost always the case for a 56 KB, and even for an analog leased line with a couple of V34 modems -that was my configuration until 2 weeks ago-), it will never start the protocol. With the V34 modems, a simple solution would be to issue 'kill -TERM nnnn;ppp -dedicated xxxx' (on exit, ppp lowers the DTR, so the modems will hang and then retry the connection, this time detected by ppp) Another annoying bug is that it doesn't reset correctly its internal state-machine on a DCD drop, so if the carrier goes down it will not put itself in a state where a new low-to-high transition restarts the protocol. If this happens, you are forced to kill the process and restart it. The right fix, of course, is different: ppp should check the state of the DCD during the startup phase, and trigger the OsLinkup event accordingly. Unluckily, I'm not expert enough yet with BSD programming to try and do the patches myself. And I'm going to drop my analog leased line soon, so it's going to be harder to test. Hope this helps. Angelo. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Angelo Turetta mailto:aturetta@stylo.it Stylo Multimedia - Bologna - Italy http://www.stylo.it/ ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB4667.178616A0-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 07:20:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA20933 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 07:20:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA20880; Mon, 20 May 1996 07:20:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA05392; Mon, 20 May 1996 08:19:55 -0600 Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 08:19:55 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605201419.IAA05392@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, bde@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Annoying mtree messages.. In-Reply-To: <3414.832600376@time.cdrom.com> References: <3414.832600376@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've long been annoyed by mtree output of the form: > > mtree -deU -f /a/src-current/etc/mtree/BSD.usr.dist -p /usr > local: user (3, 0, modified) > gid (7, 0, modified) > missing: ./libdata/stallion (created) > missing: ./obj (created) > missing: ./share/calendar/ru_SU.KOI8-R (created) > missing: ./src (not created: File exists) > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > These spew out intermixed with the creations and valid permission > adjustments and make them hard to see. I would like to propose that > we make nuke all the "(not blah: File exists)" messages from mtree > (unless you put it into verbose mode or something) so as to get more > readable output from it in the future. > > Any objections? None here. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 07:29:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA21449 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 07:29:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA21440; Mon, 20 May 1996 07:29:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id AAA25000; Tue, 21 May 1996 00:26:50 +1000 Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 00:26:50 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199605201426.AAA25000@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Annoying mtree messages.. Cc: bde@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >mtree -deU -f /a/src-current/etc/mtree/BSD.usr.dist -p /usr >local: user (3, 0, modified) > gid (7, 0, modified) >... >missing: ./src (not created: File exists) >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >These spew out intermixed with the creations and valid permission >adjustments and make them hard to see. I would like to propose that >we make nuke all the "(not blah: File exists)" messages from mtree >... >Any objections? I object. The underlined message is caused by 2 bugs. First, your ./src is a symlink but it should be a directory. Second, mtree doesn't fully understand symlinks, so it doesn't check the tree under ./src and it prints a stupid error message. The 2 lines of messages about `local' is caused by a bug in the database. /usr/local should probably be specified as being owned by root.wheel in both BSD.usr.dist and BSD.local.dist. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 07:33:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA21771 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 07:33:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA21763 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 07:33:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA21695 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 10:38:25 -0400 Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 10:38:25 -0400 Message-Id: <199605201438.KAA21695@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Involking DDB Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is there a way to start DDB without a system crash...ie run the kernel in some sort of monitoring mode on demand? Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 08:17:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA24287 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 08:17:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA24269; Mon, 20 May 1996 08:17:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA19424; Mon, 20 May 1996 10:15:18 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199605201515.KAA19424@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Triton chipset with 256k cache caches 32M only? To: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 10:15:18 -0500 (CDT) Cc: rgrimes@GndRsh.aac.dev.com, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@freebsd.org, hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605170151.PAA20303@pegasus.com> from "Richard Foulk" at May 16, 96 03:51:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > } Only if you have memory that is failing or you need extreamly reliable > } operation (good memory should have a single bit error rate of something > } like 1 in 10 years). > > This is all subject to personal judgement. > > How a 15% performance hit compares with the possibility of lost or bad > data should not be trivialized. One error in ten years may not seem > like much, but it could still cost lots of time and money. And it's > just as likely to happen today as in ten years. Agreed, however, it's much more likely that some other component (think: disks, cpu fans, etc) will exhibit errors. 15% is a fairly hefty price to pay for a relatively small return. On a well built RAID system that needs the extra reliability, perhaps it is warranted. It is probably _not_ warranted on your average run of the mill server class system to lose 15% just to gain one correction every ten years rather than one crash every ten years, unless you have purposely over-spec'd the machine to account for the 15% loss. Obviously it is a matter of how paranoid (or silly?) you want to be.. I am perfectly confident that my disks will puke before my RAM. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 08:39:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA25641 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 08:39:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA25635 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 08:39:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.7.5/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id AAA01702; Tue, 21 May 1996 00:38:55 +0900 (JST) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 00:38:55 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: bsdi-users@bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com Subject: ISDN Compression Load on CPU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk SDLComm has a new PCI card called the RISCom/Pri. Primary rate has 23 64Kbps B-Channels. I wonder how many cards can be put into a P90 box running BSD Unix before the compression overloads the CPU? How heavy is the computational load of something like STAC compression? -mh From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 09:37:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA28995 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 09:37:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA28987 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 09:37:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.7.5/BSD4.4) id CAA29915 Tue, 21 May 1996 02:35:08 +1000 (EST) From: michael butler Message-Id: <199605201635.CAA29915@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: Netscape Proxy Server on FreeBSD To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 02:35:04 +1000 (EST) Cc: alex@fa.tdktca.com, yong@cmu1.chiangmai.ac.th, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <3470.832600833@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at May 20, 96 07:00:33 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > > I think that Apache will also do this, if you coax it. > > Are you sure? I think this is the one function Apache does not do > > (although it may be a loadable module in the future). > I could be confusing this with something else - I'll go back and > check again. :-) The 1.1 beta is reputed to do this .. michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 09:38:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA29064 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 09:38:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA29059 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 09:38:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA05792; Mon, 20 May 1996 10:38:30 -0600 Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 10:38:30 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605201638.KAA05792@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Nate Williams Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: DNS question In-Reply-To: <199605200307.VAA04583@rocky.sri.MT.net> References: <199605200307.VAA04583@rocky.sri.MT.net> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Thanks to everyone for showing me how to have control of our > sub-classed C network using the: > Classless in-addr.arpa delegation OK, I spent a little more time that I don't have this morning on it. I've not got nslookup working correctly, but 'host' doesn't at all. trout:~/dnswalk % host 206.127.76.100 Host not found, try again. trout:~/dnswalk % host 100.76.127.206.in-addr.arpa 100.76.127.206.in-addr.arpa is a nickname for 100.96.76.127.206.in-addr.arpa There is an entry for this host, but it doesn't have the information you requested. And, finally 'host -d' implies that things *are* working, but it doesn't get far enough to figure things out. trout:~/dnswalk % host -d 206.127.76.100 ;; res_query(100.76.127.206.in-addr.arpa, 1, 12) ;; res_mkquery(0, 100.76.127.206.in-addr.arpa, 1, 12) ;; res_send() ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 14609 ;; flags: rd; Ques: 1, Ans: 0, Auth: 0, Addit: 0 ;; QUESTIONS: ;; 100.76.127.206.in-addr.arpa, type = PTR, class = IN ;; Querying server (# 1) address = 127.0.0.1 ;; got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 14609 ;; flags: qr aa rd ra; Ques: 1, Ans: 2, Auth: 1, Addit: 1 ;; QUESTIONS: ;; 100.76.127.206.in-addr.arpa, type = PTR, class = IN ;; ANSWERS: 100.76.127.206.in-addr.arpa. 86400 IN CNAME 100.96.76.127.206.in-addr.arpa. 100.96.76.127.206.in-addr.arpa. 86400 IN PTR rocky.mt.sri.com. ;; AUTHORITY RECORDS: 96.76.127.206.in-addr.arpa. 86400 IN NS trout.sri.MT.net. ;; ADDITIONAL RECORDS: trout.sri.MT.net. 85131 IN A 204.182.243.12 Host not found, try again. If you look, the PTR record for 'rocky.mt.sri.com' exists in there, but it's somehow not getting picked up. I don't want to cut my throat by switching over to the new addresses if we're going to have problems. Help me Obi-wan, you're my only hope! Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 09:42:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA29441 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 09:42:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scooter.quickweb.com (scooter.quickweb.com [199.212.134.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA29352 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 09:42:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mark@localhost) by scooter.quickweb.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA08165; Mon, 20 May 1996 12:46:30 -0400 Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 12:46:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Mayo To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Netscape Proxy Server on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <31A07DB6.3649D859@fa.tdktca.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 May 1996, Alex Nash wrote: > Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > > A derivative of Harvest is also available: > > > > > > http://www.nlanr.net/Squid/ > > > > Funny - someone just submitted a squid port. Guess we'll have to > > bring it in now. :-) > > :) Harvest is also available as a package in -current. > > Alex > I would be nice to see Squid packaged too! It's basically the continuation of the Harvest work (the non-commerical split..) and it works quite nicely! We have it setup in a hierarchical system, with a total of about 2 Gigs of cache. Works very well. So far it seems to be about 45% effective on cache hits. I also run the Netscape Proxy server on a 2.1R machine (v1.12 of NS) with no problems. A real no brainer to setup, and the performance seems very good. I'm not sure if the next version of the proxy is out for the BSD platform yet, but I heard it will be BSDI 2.x . Anyone do any testing on which proxy is better (perfomance and hit percentage wise)? The NS proxy we use caches about a Gig, with about 150 modem users hitting it. It usually avaerages 30% cache hit successes - which seems pretty decent for a single cache. I haven't tested, but the performance _Seems_ better than Squid... the two have very different forking properties.. Comments welcome! -Mark :%t$sig -- Oops, thought I was in vi.. ------------------------------------------- | Mark Mayo mark@quickweb.com | | C-Soft www.quickweb.com | ------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 10:03:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA00441 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 10:03:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA00436 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 10:03:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) id KAA18601; Mon, 20 May 1996 10:00:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605201700.KAA18601@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Involking DDB To: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 10:00:15 -0700 (PDT) From: "JULIAN Elischer" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605201438.KAA21695@etinc.com> from "Dennis" at May 20, 96 10:38:25 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk hit or boot -d which makes it enter debug as sson as it is feasible to do so..... > > > Is there a way to start DDB without a system crash...ie run the kernel in > some sort of monitoring mode on demand? > > Dennis > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com > > Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For > Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame > Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD > and LINUX > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 10:07:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA00641 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 10:07:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com ([199.238.225.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA00573 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 10:05:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA10195; Mon, 20 May 1996 09:55:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605201655.JAA10195@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Involking DDB In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 20 May 96 10:38:25 -0400. <199605201438.KAA21695@etinc.com> Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 09:55:55 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Is there a way to start DDB without a system crash...ie run the kernel in >some sort of monitoring mode on demand? Ctrl-Alt-Esc. It won't work under X, though (switch to a VT first). ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 10:11:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA00940 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 10:11:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA00931 for hackers; Mon, 20 May 1996 10:11:15 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199605201711.KAA00931@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: need paper accessible thru afs To: hackers Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 10:11:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk i need a copy of this paper which is accessible via afs. can some one mail me a copy? ftp://cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/mach/public/doc/published/os-memorysys.ps i know nothing of afs, perhaps it shows. the paper is not accessible by ftp. jmb -- Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD--4.4BSD Unix for PC clones, source included. http://www.freebsd.org/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 10:20:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA01489 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 10:20:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA01483; Mon, 20 May 1996 10:20:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uLYd6-0004JzC; Mon, 20 May 96 10:20 PDT Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 10:20:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: current@FreeBSD.ORG cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just installed the FreeBSD-CURRENT May 1 snapshot on my home box and it's working perfectly. Congratulations all, on the most "STABLE" CURRENT release yet! I also supped -current (May 19) and rebuilt world and the kernel and that seems to be working fine as well. In particular I am impressed by the more efficient RAM usage (VM changes + new malloc) and excellent Linux support (a.out + ELF + sound). This is the first -current I've been able to run at home (the previous SNAP's boot floppy panicked sysinstall) so the improvement is really noticable compared to -stable. Also, I had been running Solaris x86 recently, and now I'm wondering why I hadn't upgraded FreeBSD sooner! The performance boost in PPP and XFree86, along with being able to run Netscape, and MUCH less swapping, has switched me back to FreeBSD for good. My plan now is to try to bring in Solaris/ELF support (possibly from NetBSD) so that I can run all the Solaris "goodies" like ksh, Openwindows tools, Motif, and CDE (that, along with the fact that I do Solaris/SPARC development at work/school, was the main reason I bought Solaris/x86 [at educational discount] in the first place). My other plans for -current are: Upgrading the Linux libraries package to better support the JDK (libc 5.3.x) and other ELF programs, upgrading a few ports, and once GCC 2.7.3 is released (soon?), rebuilding world and kernel under GCC-2.7.2 with -O2 optimization to see if anything breaks. Out of personal preference (whether or not it ever goes in the tree), I'd also like to reduce the number of statically-linked binaries (i.e. move /bin to /usr/bin like Linux and Solaris) to those needed for boot and /stand for emergency use, and revamp the boot scripts to support SVR4-style /etc/init.d for safer package installs. Again, thanks to everyone for the high quality of -current and the May 1 SNAP! ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 10:26:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA01830 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 10:26:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.fa.tdktca.com (alex@[163.49.131.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA01825 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 10:26:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from alex@localhost) by orion.fa.tdktca.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA31321; Mon, 20 May 1996 12:29:51 -0500 Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 12:29:51 -0500 Message-Id: <199605201729.MAA31321@orion.fa.tdktca.com> From: Alex Nash To: mark@quickweb.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Netscape Proxy Server on FreeBSD Reply-to: alex@fa.tdktca.com Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > :) Harvest is also available as a package in -current. > > > I would be nice to see Squid packaged too! I wouldn't suggest having Harvest instead of Squid any more than I would suggest removing elm because we have pine. I was hoping to point the original poster to a ready made solution. Alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 10:29:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA02068 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 10:29:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA02063; Mon, 20 May 1996 10:29:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA06033; Mon, 20 May 1996 11:29:37 -0600 Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 11:29:37 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605201729.LAA06033@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: need paper accessible thru afs In-Reply-To: <199605201711.KAA00931@freefall.freebsd.org> References: <199605201711.KAA00931@freefall.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > i need a copy of this paper which is accessible via > afs. can some one mail me a copy? > > ftp://cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/mach/public/doc/published/os-memorysys.ps > > i know nothing of afs, perhaps it shows. the paper is not > accessible by ftp. Hmm, I just downloaded it with netscape. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 10:58:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA04137 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 10:58:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA04101; Mon, 20 May 1996 10:58:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay6.UU.NET (relay6.UU.NET [192.48.96.16]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.5/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id KAA02272; Mon, 20 May 1996 10:58:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from inet.dpt.com by relay6.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: inet.DPT.COM [198.242.63.16]) id QQaqnv02855; Mon, 20 May 1996 13:55:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccMail by inet.dpt.com (SMTPLINK V2.11 PreRelease 4) id AA832625682; Mon, 20 May 96 13:53:49 EST Date: Mon, 20 May 96 13:53:49 EST From: "Salyzyn" Message-Id: <9604208326.AA832625682@inet.dpt.com> To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Cc: freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re[2]: Who wants a DPT SCSI controller driver? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Author: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) at inet Date: 1996/5/19 7:31 AM Yes, I would be very interested. (In case you don't know, I'm the person who ported ccd from NetBSD... :) Well, for the list, I will release the BSDi driver. It has some superfluous fluff associated with Bus Reset that should be removed (The SCSI system is handed back individual error responses for each outstanding request, no need for the driver to resend the requests). The BSDi driver started out under FreeBSD, but just before completion it was transfered over and ported to the BSDi system and TTD (Tested To Death :-). The SCSI system is different, so it has diverged somewhat. We have one volunteer that is willing to port the code over, he conveniently already has some of our controllers to work with. Anyone interested in writing a NetBSD port would be appreciated. I will be responsible for dealing with any issues associated with the driver from DPT's standpoint, and would like anyone working on this driver to keep me up to date. I will no doubt be responsible for support ... By the way, does DPT allow us to stripe across controllers? (I tried looking at www.dpt.com, but could get to none of the pages....) When we Stripe across controllers, it is done from within the driver. It would be far better for the SCSI system writers to place striping across controllers within that layer (as is done under Linux). Satoshi I am not on any of the freebsd mailing lists, it is unfortunate that I am burdened with cc:Mail here and have no hope of keeping up with the list. However, I am very willing to answer any questions associated with the porting efforts for the BSDi driver! Sincerely Yours -- Mark Salyzyn Senior Software Engineer Distributed Processing Technology. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 11:06:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA04895 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 11:06:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA04890; Mon, 20 May 1996 11:06:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA04206; Mon, 20 May 1996 11:06:04 -0700 (PDT) To: Jake Hamby cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 May 1996 10:20:23 PDT." Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 11:06:04 -0700 Message-ID: <4204.832615564@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > switched me back to FreeBSD for good. My plan now is to try to bring in > Solaris/ELF support (possibly from NetBSD) so that I can run all the > Solaris "goodies" like ksh, Openwindows tools, Motif, and CDE (that, along > with the fact that I do Solaris/SPARC development at work/school, was the > main reason I bought Solaris/x86 [at educational discount] in the first > place). YES! I would love this. If nothing else, it would open up large portions of the Sun Catalyst catalog to us! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 11:44:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA07627 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 11:44:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA07622 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 11:44:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA28134; Mon, 20 May 1996 11:38:04 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605201838.LAA28134@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Funky Micron PP200 problems under 2.1 To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 11:38:04 -0700 (MST) Cc: michaelv@HeadCandy.com, henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199605180632.XAA01529@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at May 17, 96 11:32:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > PCI is supposed to be capable of up to 133MB/s (~33MHz * 32-bits). > > Cough.... It has been known for a while now that the PCI chipset > on the PPro has had it shares of problems and one of them being > if memory does not fail me that writes to the PCI bus are limited > to 5MB/sec. 123MB/s is burst rate. If you kept that up continuously, you'd miss your DRAM refresh and your computer would lose it's mind. Max sustained rate is closer to 80MB/s -- enough for 6 100Mbit network cards. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 11:46:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA07719 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 11:46:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.fa.tdktca.com (alex@[163.49.131.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA07712 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 11:46:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from alex@localhost) by orion.fa.tdktca.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA31412; Mon, 20 May 1996 13:50:18 -0500 Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 13:50:18 -0500 Message-Id: <199605201850.NAA31412@orion.fa.tdktca.com> From: Alex Nash To: bde@zeta.org.au Cc: wollman@lcs.mit.edu, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: unionfs Reply-to: alex@fa.tdktca.com Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It should be possible for anyone to ask a trusted server to load > trusted LKMs. However, LKMs can't be loaded if securelevel > 0, > so it is best not to depend on loading them on demand. What a coincindence, I was just wondering if it was possible to load LKMs in secure mode just this morning (prompted by Garrett's IPFW concerns). Unfortunately I can't test this empirically with the FreeBSD systems here, so I've been looking through the code to see if this was allowed. As far as I can tell, the file system operations affected by securelevel are: /ufs/ufs/ufs_vnops.c: Check secure level when dealing with immutable and append only flags. /miscfs/specfs/spec_vnops.c: Do not allow opens for writing to disk character devices when securelevel is 2 or greater. Do not allow opens for writing of /dev/mem and /dev/kmem, or character devices that are currently mounted when secure level is 1 or greater. Do not allow opens for writing of any disk block devices when secure level is 2 or greater. Since modload opens a character device which is not a disk device, I don't think securelevel prevents LKMs from being loaded (but I agree that it should). What did I miss? Alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 11:55:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA08255 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 11:55:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.fa.tdktca.com (root@[163.49.131.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA08250 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 11:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion (alex@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.fa.tdktca.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA31438; Mon, 20 May 1996 13:59:11 -0500 Message-ID: <31A0C0FE.1CE1BCE0@fa.tdktca.com> Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 13:59:10 -0500 From: Alex Nash Organization: TDK Factory Automation X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; Linux 1.2.13 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Garrett Wollman CC: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: unionfs References: <199605201850.NAA31412@orion.fa.tdktca.com> <9605201850.AA22618@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Garrett Wollman wrote: > > Since modload opens a character device which is not a disk device, > > I don't think securelevel prevents LKMs from being loaded (but I > > agree that it should). > > > What did I miss? > > kern/kern_lkm.c specifically inspects securelevel and denies write > access when >0. > > ------------------------------------ > if ((flag & FWRITE) == 0 || securelevel > 0) > /* only allow this if writing and insecure */ > return EPERM; > ------------------------------------ At first I couldn't believe I'd missed this, but it turns out this code is only in -current. Can someone add this to -stable? Alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 12:02:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA08859 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 12:02:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.infinet.com (mail1.infinet.com [206.103.240.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA08854 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 12:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from user2.infinet.com (macgyver@user.infinet.com [206.103.240.10]) by mail1.infinet.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA13751 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:57:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Wilson Liaw Received: (from macgyver@localhost) by user2.infinet.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA09980 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 20 May 1996 15:01:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605201901.PAA09980@user2.infinet.com> Subject: Applix and Red Hat Software Announce Applixware for Red Hat Linux (fwd) To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 15:01:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Something we ought to think about doing? They are beginning to bundle quite a bit of stuff. the current RedHat already comes with Metro X server... Forwarded message: > From redhat-announce-list-request@redhat.com Mon May 20 09:55:58 1996 > Resent-Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 09:55:30 -0400 > Approved: marc@redhat.com > Message-Id: <199605201354.JAA23434@schroeder.redhat.com> > To: redhat-announce-list@redhat.com > Cc: redhat-list@redhat.com > Subject: Applix and Red Hat Software Announce Applixware for Red Hat Linux > Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 09:54:06 -0400 > From: Marc Ewing > Resent-Message-ID: <"gOz-02.0.JJ.Id7en"@redhat.com> > Resent-From: redhat-announce-list@redhat.com > Reply-To: redhat-list@redhat.com > X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/196 > X-Loop: redhat-announce-list@redhat.com > Precedence: list > Resent-Sender: redhat-announce-list-request@redhat.com > X-URL: http://www.redhat.com > > > Applix and Red Hat Software Announce Applixware for Red Hat Linux > ================================================================= > > Most popular and complete office suite for UNIX to be available for Linux. > > Westboro, MA, - Applix Inc. (NASDAQ: APLX) and Red Hat Software, Inc. > announced today the availability of Applix's Applixware(TM) suite of > office automation products for the Red Hat(TM) Linux operating system. > Under the terms of an agreement between Red Hat Software and Applix, > Red Hat Software will bundle Applixware version 4.2 with the > commercially available release 3.0.3 of Red Hat Linux. Also under the > terms of the this agreement Red Hat Software will distribute and > support the combined products. > > "We recognized a need in the Linux marketplace for high-performance > office automation tools" said Tony Giannelli, vice-president of > business development and marketing Applix Inc. "After an extensive > review, we chose Red Hat Software because we felt that Red Hat > provides the most complete platform for running Applixware on Linux." > > Applixware is the most popular and complete office automation suite > for UNIX(r) systems. Applixware for Red Hat Linux features fully > integrated graphical: > > o. spreadsheet, > o. word processing, > o. graphics, > o. presentation, > o. electronic mail, and > o. HTML authoring software. > > Applixware can be used to build integrated solutions on UNIX and now > Linux systems. The advanced Applix Builder rapid application > development environment is also included in the agreement. > > Linux is a co-operatively developed POSIX-oriented, multi-user, > multi-tasking operating system in use worldwide in research and > development organizations. It can be used as a low-cost, fully > functional UNIX workstation for Internet server and other > applications. The Red Hat Linux operating system is maintained as > "freely distributable" software available from many sites on the > Internet. > > "The opportunity for software developers to develop and run Applixware > applications on low-cost PC workstations will make Applixware more > readily accessible to a much broader audience." said Bob Young, > president of Red Hat Software, Inc. "Partnering with Applix ensures > our customers are getting the absolute best office automation suite > possible for Linux. Red Hat Software is committed to bringing serious > development tools to the Linux operating system and Applixware for Red > Hat Linux is one of the most important of these to date." > > Applixware for Red Hat Linux will be available directly from Red Hat > Software and Linux resellers, early this summer. The suggested retail > price is $495.00 per user. > > About Applix Inc.: > > Applix, Inc. based in Westboro MA provides solutions for the Real Time > Enterprise - those organizations that seek and gain competitive > advantage by converting raw data into effective action in the shortest > possible time. Applix develops, markets and supports Applixware and > Applix Enterprise software. > > Applixware for Real Time Desk is an open suite of integrated personal > desktop tools that enable individual users with time-critical and > historical data needs to access, analyze, display and communicate > information from a universal desktop across heterogeneous > client/server environments, including the Web. Applix Enterprise is > an integrated suite of support automation applications for handling > the dynamic data needs of customer interaction environments. > > About Red Hat Software, Inc.: > > Red Hat Software, Inc. based in Westport, CT builds and maintains the > Red Hat Linux distribution of the Linux operating system. Working in > cooperation with a huge development team of research, academic, and > commercial software developer volunteers, over the Internet, Red Hat's > goal is to build the easiest and simplest to administer advanced > operating system. Red Hat also publishes and distributes commercial > applications for Linux of which Applixware is one of the most > significant. > > (all trademarks, registered trademarks, and service marks, are > property of their respective owners) > > Contact: > > Mark Prahl Lisa Sullivan > Applix, Inc. Red Hat Software, Inc. > (508) 870-0300 (203) 454-5500 > mprahl@applix.com sulli@redhat.com > > > -- > To unsubscribe: > mail -s unsubscribe redhat-announce-list-request@redhat.com < /dev/null > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 12:06:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA09191 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 12:06:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA09177 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 12:05:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id TAA22018; Mon, 20 May 1996 19:53:34 +0100 (BST) To: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Involking DDB In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 May 1996 10:38:25 EDT." <199605201438.KAA21695@etinc.com> Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 19:53:34 +0100 Message-ID: <22016.832618414@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dennis wrote in message ID <199605201438.KAA21695@etinc.com>: > > Is there a way to start DDB without a system crash...ie run the kernel in > some sort of monitoring mode on demand? Hitting -- (if you have DDB enabled) drops you into the debugger. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 12:06:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA09245 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 12:06:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA09234 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 12:06:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id TAA22007; Mon, 20 May 1996 19:50:15 +0100 (BST) To: Branson Matheson cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (Hackers FreeBSD) From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: - - In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 May 1996 08:19:12 EDT." <199605201219.IAA13848@longstreet.larc.nasa.gov> Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 19:50:14 +0100 Message-ID: <22005.832618214@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Branson Matheson wrote in message ID <199605201219.IAA13848@longstreet.larc.nasa.gov>: > > I don't think this would really disable "CTRL-ALT-DEL". Every user > > would be able to bypass this restriction by loading another > > unmodified keymap. > Every user with this access to the console could press the reset > button on the front panel, power off the box, unplud it from the > wall, or drop it out the window. > Why is a CTRL-ALT-DEL more likely than the least offensive of these > (the reset switch)? Because C-A-D attempts a clean shutdown of the system, where as the reset button (as its name implies) does NOT signal FreeBSD that it is about to happen, and FreeBSD could leave the filesystem in a right mess as a result. C-A-D is really a shortcut for `reboot'... Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 12:17:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA09980 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 12:17:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA09973 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 12:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id VAA14321 ; Mon, 20 May 1996 21:17:40 +0200 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id VAA10977 ; Mon, 20 May 1996 21:18:04 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.5/keltia-uucp-2.7) id UAA04975; Mon, 20 May 1996 20:41:55 +0200 (MET DST) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199605201841.UAA04975@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: Involking DDB To: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 20:41:55 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605201438.KAA21695@etinc.com> from Dennis at "May 20, 96 10:38:25 am" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1983 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL16 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Dennis said: > Is there a way to start DDB without a system crash...ie run the kernel in > some sort of monitoring mode on demand? Ctrl-Alt-Esc at the console prompt (not X) should jump you into DDB. Hitting BREAK on a serial console too (maybe enabled by a special kernel option). -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #2: Fri May 10 21:09:14 MET DST 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 12:28:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA10836 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 12:28:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from luke.pmr.com (luke.pmr.com [206.224.65.132]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA10824; Mon, 20 May 1996 12:28:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bob@localhost) by luke.pmr.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) id OAA15012; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:28:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Bob Willcox Message-Id: <199605201928.OAA15012@luke.pmr.com> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Who wants a DPT SCSI controller driver? To: salyzyn@inet.dpt.com (Salyzyn) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 14:28:29 -0500 (CDT) Cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9604208326.AA832625682@inet.dpt.com> from Salyzyn at "May 20, 96 01:53:49 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Salyzyn wrote: > Author: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) at inet > Date: 1996/5/19 7:31 AM > > Yes, I would be very interested. (In case you don't know, I'm the > person who ported ccd from NetBSD... :) > > Well, for the list, I will release the BSDi driver. It has > some superfluous fluff associated with Bus Reset that should > be removed (The SCSI system is handed back individual error > responses for each outstanding request, no need for the > driver to resend the requests). The BSDi driver started out > under FreeBSD, but just before completion it was transfered > over and ported to the BSDi system and TTD (Tested To Death > :-). The SCSI system is different, so it has diverged > somewhat. > > We have one volunteer that is willing to port the code over, > he conveniently already has some of our controllers to work > with. Anyone interested in writing a NetBSD port would be > appreciated. I am the volunteer that Mark eludes to. I have been working with the DPT controllers since last August (developing a device driver for another UNIX-like OS) and would be happy to work on this project. Mark has sent me the current BSDi driver source and I plan to begin with that. I welcome any help or suggestions. -- Bob Willcox bob@luke.pmr.com Austin, TX From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 13:02:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA12201 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 13:02:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haven.uchicago.edu (root@haven.uchicago.edu [128.135.12.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA12196 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 13:02:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from woodlawn.uchicago.edu (root@woodlawn.uchicago.edu [128.135.12.9]) by haven.uchicago.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA00968; Mon, 20 May 1996 15:01:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from woodlawn.uchicago.edu (csdayton@localhost.uchicago.edu [127.0.0.1]) by woodlawn.uchicago.edu (8.7.1/8.7.2) with ESMTP id PAA03266; Mon, 20 May 1996 15:02:34 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199605202002.PAA03266@woodlawn.uchicago.edu> In-reply-to: Jake Hamby's message of Mon, 20 May 1996 10:20:23 -0700 (PDT) To: Jake Hamby Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... Reply-To: csdayton@midway.uchicago.edu References: Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 15:02:33 CDT From: Soren Dayton Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Out of personal preference (whether or not it ever goes in the tree), I'd > also like to reduce the number of statically-linked binaries this is all I get in /usr/bin /usr/bin/chflags: FreeBSD/i386 demand paged executable /usr/bin/gunzip: FreeBSD/i386 demand paged executable /usr/bin/gzcat: FreeBSD/i386 demand paged executable /usr/bin/gzip: FreeBSD/i386 demand paged executable /usr/bin/ld: FreeBSD/i386 demand paged executable /usr/bin/tar: FreeBSD/i386 demand paged executable /usr/bin/zcat: FreeBSD/i386 demand paged executable I think that I can handle tar and gzip not being dynamically linked. (and the gzip binary is only four of those!) Same for ld. What else are you referring to? > (i.e. move > /bin to /usr/bin like Linux and Solaris) and if you do not have a /usr filesystem????? I _much_ prefer this way, being someone without a /usr filesystem once upon a time > and revamp the boot scripts to support > SVR4-style /etc/init.d for safer package installs. I would like to see this happen. I find it much more flexible than one flat file. Are there compelling reasons for keeping the current structure for boot scripts. Soren From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 13:19:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA13399 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 13:19:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA13365; Mon, 20 May 1996 13:18:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA14641; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:18:49 +0200 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA02111 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Mon, 20 May 1996 22:18:10 +0200 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA32276 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Mon, 20 May 1996 21:31:06 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA01678; Mon, 20 May 1996 20:50:17 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199605201850.UAA01678@yedi.iaf.nl> X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands Subject: Re: Who wants a DPT SCSI controller driver? To: taob@io.org (Brian Tao) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 20:50:17 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at May 19, 96 10:12:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >_ > > On Mon, 20 May 1996, Michael Smith wrote: > > > > Seriously, if their stuff is any good I can see a lot of serious > > customers jumping at the opportunity. > > The hardware definitely looks good on paper, and the price point > starts around the level of the current crop of Adaptecs. As I told > Mark at DPT, FreeBSD already has the software muscle to be the top > contender as an NFS server, now it needs some equally potent hardware > to back it up. 42 of those new 23GB Seagate drives per controller, > four controllers per machine == 3TB of *usable* filesystem space (hi, > Satoshi!). :) > -- > Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org, taob@ican.net) Hmm. 3Tb? Then somebody should go and write a HSM application to control a tape robot.. Could do some testing on our 260+ cartridge DLT library (soon to be able to hold 260+ * 40Gb ;-) (hi, Brian :) Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 14:09:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA17098 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:09:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA17093 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:09:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA28405; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:04:34 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605202104.OAA28405@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Glitch in install procedure. To: dutchman@spase.nl (Kees Jan Koster) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 14:04:34 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199605200720.JAA01835@phobos.spase.nl> from "Kees Jan Koster" at May 20, 96 09:20:45 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I just installed FreeBSD as a secondary OS on a machine. I dumped it into the > upper 300 Mb of a 810 Mb disk. Funny thing is that neither the installation > procedure, nor booteasy issued a warning that it would not be possible to > actually boot from the partition, as it is beyond the reach of the BIOS. That's because it couldn't ask BIOS to tell it what was good. Silly FreeBSD, trusted you to know what you were doing. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 14:12:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA17405 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:12:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.calweb.com (mail.calweb.com [165.90.138.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA17386 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:12:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from devnull.calweb.com (devnull.calweb.com [165.90.138.92]) by mail.calweb.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA19561 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:06:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960520211330.00747480@jpop.calweb.com> X-Sender: jfesler@jpop.calweb.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 14:13:30 -0700 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Jason Fesler Subject: Where is kgdb? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone know where kgdb went from FreeBSD-current? Or should I use the RELEASE version? -- Jason Fesler jfesler@calweb.com Admin, CalWeb Internet Services jfroot@calweb.com I like my Usenet over ice, please. http://www.gigo.com Disclaimer: My /dev/null can beat your /dev/null any day. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 14:13:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA17441 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:13:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA17428 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:13:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA28472; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:08:18 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605202108.OAA28472@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: - - To: branson@longstreet.larc.nasa.gov (Branson Matheson) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 14:08:18 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199605201219.IAA13848@longstreet.larc.nasa.gov> from "Branson Matheson" at May 20, 96 08:19:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Since I have seen more than one person interested in this problem .. > is it unreasonable to ask that this become a sysctl setting that could > be changed ? Mabey somthing like > > hw.ctlaltdel = 1 Just load a different keymap with an entry for the ctl-alt modifiers for the del key. man kbdcontrol Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 14:19:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA18026 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:19:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA18002 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:19:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA14648; Mon, 20 May 1996 23:17:08 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA09363; Mon, 20 May 1996 23:17:08 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA06407; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:54:05 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605202054.WAA06407@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Involking DDB To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 22:54:05 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605201438.KAA21695@etinc.com> from Dennis at "May 20, 96 10:38:25 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Dennis wrote: > > Is there a way to start DDB without a system crash...ie run the kernel in > some sort of monitoring mode on demand? Several of them. Boot with `-d'. This drops you into DDB early in the game, so you can even trace the device probing. Since interrupts are not yet enabled, the ``hot keys'' described below won't work however. Hit the ``hot key'' on the PC keyboard. This is Ctrl-Alt-ESC by default, though i think some syscons keymaps tweak it onto another combination (which i forgot). Compile your kernel with option ``BREAK_TO_DEBUGGER'', use a serial console, and force a line break on the RS-232. This will drop you into DDB on the serial console. (If you've got a PC keyboard + driver as well, its ``hot key'' will do the same, even though the console is a serial one.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 14:24:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA18413 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:24:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA18362 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:23:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA28500; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:19:17 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605202119.OAA28500@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU To: michaelh@cet.co.jp (Michael Hancock) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 14:19:17 -0700 (MST) Cc: bsdi-users@bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com In-Reply-To: from "Michael Hancock" at May 21, 96 00:38:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > SDLComm has a new PCI card called the RISCom/Pri. Primary rate has 23 > 64Kbps B-Channels. I wonder how many cards can be put into a P90 box > running BSD Unix before the compression overloads the CPU? The RISC CPU you mean.. dunno. > How heavy is the computational load of something like STAC compression? As a percentage of CPU: depends on your CPU. As a percentage of file I/O overhead: ~17%, assuming average cache locality, degrading to ~36% for cache-busting (like IOZone). This was on a 486 DX/2-66, so your mileage may vary. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 14:28:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA18957 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:28:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA18950 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:28:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by onyx.nervosa.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA01230; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:25:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 14:25:14 -0700 (PDT) From: "Chris J. Layne" To: alex@fa.tdktca.com cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, yong@cmu1.chiangmai.ac.th, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Netscape Proxy Server on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199605201357.IAA31105@orion.fa.tdktca.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 May 1996, Alex Nash wrote: > > I think that Apache will also do this, if you coax it. > > Are you sure? I think this is the one function Apache does not do > (although it may be a loadable module in the future). > Alex Apache 1.1beta has alpha quality proxy cache support, and I mean alpha. It works, but when I was using it, and hence switched back to harvest, it didn't cache anything, and was constantly telling netscape to not cache any document at all even in netscape's cache. == Chris Layne ======================================== Nervosa Computing == == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 14:29:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA19016 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:29:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA19010; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:29:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA28527; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:25:18 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605202125.OAA28527@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: need paper accessible thru afs To: jmb@freefall.freebsd.org (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 14:25:18 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605201711.KAA00931@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at May 20, 96 10:11:14 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > i need a copy of this paper which is accessible via > afs. can some one mail me a copy? > > ftp://cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/mach/public/doc/published/os-memorysys.ps > > i know nothing of afs, perhaps it shows. the paper is not > accessible by ftp. Tyr: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/project/mach/public/doc/published/os-memorysys.ps Instead. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 14:31:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA19238 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA19230; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:31:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id WAA22476; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:26:04 +0100 (BST) To: Wilko Bulte cc: taob@io.org (Brian Tao), msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Who wants a DPT SCSI controller driver? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 May 1996 20:50:17 +0200." <199605201850.UAA01678@yedi.iaf.nl> Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 22:26:03 +0100 Message-ID: <22474.832627563@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Wilko Bulte wrote in message ID <199605201850.UAA01678@yedi.iaf.nl>: > Hmm. 3Tb? Then somebody should go and write a HSM application to control > a tape robot.. > > Could do some testing on our 260+ cartridge DLT library (soon to be > able to hold 260+ * 40Gb ;-) Actually, this is one of the better project suggestions that I have seen of late. It would certainly be a feather in our caps to have an HSM system. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 14:35:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA19700 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:35:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA19684; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:35:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.via.net (ns.via.net [140.174.204.1]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id OAA12633 ; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:35:22 -0700 Received: (from joe@localhost) by ns.via.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA21060; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:33:41 -0700 Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 14:33:41 -0700 From: Joe McGuckin Message-Id: <199605202133.OAA21060@ns.via.net> To: hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Subject: Help - Panic Attacks! Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Our web machine (FreeBSD 2.1, 128Meg) panicked today - twice in a row. Can anyone shed some light on this? Thanks, joe joe@via.net May 18 03:33:45 ovation /kernel: panic: kmem_malloc: kmem_map too small May 18 03:33:46 ovation /kernel: syncing disks... May 18 03:33:46 ovation /kernel: Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode May 18 03:33:46 ovation /kernel: fault virtual address = 0x10 May 18 03:33:46 ovation /kernel: fault code = supervisor read, page not present May 18 03:33:46 ovation /kernel: instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf01587b4 May 18 03:33:47 ovation /kernel: code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b May 18 03:33:47 ovation /kernel: = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 May 18 03:33:47 ovation /kernel: processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 May 18 03:33:47 ovation /kernel: current process = 1567 (find) May 18 03:33:47 ovation /kernel: interrupt mask = net tty bio May 18 03:33:48 ovation /kernel: panic: page fault May 18 03:33:48 ovation /kernel: Automatic reboot in 15 seconds - press a key on the console to abort May 18 03:33:48 ovation /kernel: Rebooting... May 18 03:33:49 ovation /kernel: FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE #0: Fri May 17 23:28:58 PDT 1996 May 18 03:33:49 ovation /kernel: root@ovation.via.net:/usr/src/sys/compile/WWW May 18 03:33:49 ovation /kernel: CPU: 100-MHz Pentium 815\100 (Pentium-class CPU) May 18 03:33:49 ovation /kernel: Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x525 Stepping=5 May 18 03:33:50 ovation /kernel: Features=0x1bf May 18 03:33:50 ovation /kernel: real memory = 134217728 (131072K bytes) May 18 03:33:50 ovation /kernel: avail memory = 127799296 (124804K bytes) May 18 03:33:50 ovation /kernel: Probing for devices on the ISA bus: May 18 03:33:50 ovation /kernel: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard May 18 03:33:50 ovation /kernel: sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> May 18 03:33:50 ovation /kernel: sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa May 18 03:33:51 ovation /kernel: sio0: type 16550A May 18 03:33:51 ovation /kernel: sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa May 18 03:33:51 ovation /kernel: sio1: type 16550A May 18 03:33:51 ovation /kernel: lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa May 18 03:33:51 ovation /kernel: lpt0: Interrupt-driven port May 18 03:33:52 ovation /kernel: lp0: TCP/IP capable interface May 18 03:33:52 ovation /kernel: fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa May 18 03:33:52 ovation /kernel: fdc0: NEC 765 May 18 03:33:52 ovation /kernel: fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in May 18 03:33:52 ovation /kernel: wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa May 18 03:33:53 ovation /kernel: wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): May 18 03:33:53 ovation /kernel: wd0: 1219MB (2496816 sectors), 2477 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S May 18 03:33:53 ovation /kernel: aha0 at 0x330-0x333 irq 11 drq 5 on isa May 18 03:33:54 ovation /kernel: aha0 waiting for scsi devices to settle May 18 03:33:54 ovation /kernel: (aha0:0:0): "NEC CD-ROM CDR-210P 1.0" type 5 removable SCSI 1 May 18 03:33:54 ovation /kernel: cd0(aha0:0:0): CD-ROM cd present.[160790 x 2048 byte records] May 18 03:33:54 ovation /kernel: (aha0:2:0): "SyQuest SQ3270S 3_04" type 0 removable SCSI 2 May 18 03:33:54 ovation /kernel: sd0(aha0:2:0): Direct-Access 256MB (524288 512 byte sectors) May 18 03:33:55 ovation /kernel: mcd0: timeout getting status May 18 03:33:55 ovation /kernel: mcd1: timeout getting status May 18 03:33:56 ovation /kernel: npx0 on motherboard May 18 03:33:56 ovation /kernel: npx0: INT 16 interface May 18 03:33:56 ovation /kernel: Probing for devices on the PCI bus: May 18 03:33:56 ovation /kernel: pci0:0: vendor=0x10b9, device=0x1451, class=bridge (host) [no driver assigned] May 18 03:33:56 ovation /kernel: pci0:2: vendor=0x10b9, device=0x1449, class=old (misc) [no driver assigned] May 18 03:33:56 ovation /kernel: de0 rev 17 int a irq 10 on pci0:5 May 18 03:33:56 ovation /kernel: de0: DC21041 [10Mb/s] pass 1.1 Ethernet address 00:00:c0:6b:b5:c8 May 18 03:33:56 ovation /kernel: pci0:6: CMD, device=0x0640, class=storage (ide) [no driver assigned] May 18 03:33:56 ovation /kernel: de0: enabling 10baseT/UTP port May 18 03:33:56 ovation /kernel: WARNING: / was not properly dismounted. May 18 03:33:57 ovation lpd[139]: restarted May 18 03:33:57 ovation lpd[144]: /usr/adm/lpd-errs: No such file or directory May 19 02:03:56 ovation /kernel: panic: kmem_malloc: kmem_map too small May 19 02:03:56 ovation /kernel: May 19 02:03:57 ovation /kernel: syncing disks... May 19 02:03:57 ovation /kernel: May 19 02:03:57 ovation /kernel: Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode May 19 02:03:57 ovation /kernel: fault virtual address = 0x10 May 19 02:03:57 ovation /kernel: fault code = supervisor read, page not present May 19 02:03:57 ovation /kernel: instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf01587b4 May 19 02:03:58 ovation /kernel: code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b May 19 02:03:58 ovation /kernel: = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 May 19 02:03:58 ovation /kernel: processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 May 19 02:03:58 ovation /kernel: current process = 23556 (find) May 19 02:03:58 ovation /kernel: interrupt mask = net tty bio May 19 02:03:59 ovation /kernel: panic: page fault May 19 02:03:59 ovation /kernel: Automatic reboot in 15 seconds - press a key on the console to abort May 19 02:04:00 ovation /kernel: Rebooting... May 19 02:04:00 ovation /kernel: FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE #0: Fri May 17 23:28:58 PDT 1996 May 19 02:04:00 ovation /kernel: root@ovation.via.net:/usr/src/sys/compile/WWW May 19 02:04:00 ovation /kernel: CPU: 100-MHz Pentium 815\100 (Pentium-class CPU) May 19 02:04:01 ovation /kernel: Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x525 Stepping=5 May 19 02:04:01 ovation /kernel: Features=0x1bf May 19 02:04:01 ovation /kernel: real memory = 134217728 (131072K bytes) May 19 02:04:01 ovation /kernel: avail memory = 127799296 (124804K bytes) May 19 02:04:01 ovation /kernel: Probing for devices on the ISA bus: May 19 02:04:01 ovation /kernel: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard May 19 02:04:01 ovation /kernel: sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> May 19 02:04:02 ovation /kernel: sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa May 19 02:04:02 ovation /kernel: sio0: type 16550A May 19 02:04:02 ovation /kernel: sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa May 19 02:04:02 ovation /kernel: sio1: type 16550A May 19 02:04:03 ovation /kernel: lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa May 19 02:04:03 ovation /kernel: lpt0: Interrupt-driven port May 19 02:04:03 ovation /kernel: lp0: TCP/IP capable interface May 19 02:04:03 ovation /kernel: fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa May 19 02:04:03 ovation /kernel: fdc0: NEC 765 May 19 02:04:04 ovation /kernel: fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in May 19 02:04:04 ovation /kernel: wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa May 19 02:04:04 ovation /kernel: wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): May 19 02:04:04 ovation /kernel: wd0: 1219MB (2496816 sectors), 2477 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S May 19 02:04:05 ovation /kernel: aha0 at 0x330-0x333 irq 11 drq 5 on isa May 19 02:04:05 ovation /kernel: aha0 waiting for scsi devices to settle May 19 02:04:05 ovation /kernel: (aha0:0:0): "NEC CD-ROM CDR-210P 1.0" type 5 removable SCSI 1 May 19 02:04:05 ovation /kernel: cd0(aha0:0:0): CD-ROM cd present.[160790 x 2048 byte records] May 19 02:04:05 ovation /kernel: (aha0:2:0): "SyQuest SQ3270S 3_04" type 0 removable SCSI 2 May 19 02:04:05 ovation /kernel: sd0(aha0:2:0): Direct-Access 256MB (524288 512 byte sectors) May 19 02:04:06 ovation /kernel: mcd0: timeout getting status May 19 02:04:06 ovation /kernel: mcd1: timeout getting status May 19 02:04:07 ovation /kernel: le0: no board found at 0x300 May 19 02:04:07 ovation /kernel: npx0 on motherboard May 19 02:04:07 ovation /kernel: npx0: INT 16 interface May 19 02:04:07 ovation /kernel: Probing for devices on the PCI bus: May 19 02:04:07 ovation /kernel: pci0:0: vendor=0x10b9, device=0x1451, class=bridge (host) [no driver assigned] May 19 02:04:07 ovation /kernel: pci0:2: vendor=0x10b9, device=0x1449, class=old (misc) [no driver assigned] May 19 02:04:07 ovation /kernel: de0 rev 17 int a irq 10 on pci0:5 May 19 02:04:07 ovation /kernel: de0: DC21041 [10Mb/s] pass 1.1 Ethernet address 00:00:c0:6b:b5:c8 May 19 02:04:07 ovation /kernel: pci0:6: CMD, device=0x0640, class=storage (ide) [no driver assigned] May 19 02:04:08 ovation /kernel: de0: enabling 10baseT/UTP port May 19 02:04:08 ovation /kernel: WARNING: / was not properly dismounted. May 19 02:04:08 ovation lpd[140]: restarted May 19 02:04:08 ovation lpd[143]: /usr/adm/lpd-errs: No such file or directory May 19 17:53:56 ovation login: ROOT LOGIN (root) ON ttyv0 May 19 17:53:56 ovation login: login on ttyv0 as root May 20 02:04:01 ovation /kernel: panic: kmem_malloc: kmem_map too small May 20 02:04:01 ovation /kernel: May 20 02:04:02 ovation /kernel: syncing disks... 57 57 57 57 57 57 57 57 57 57 57 57 57 57 57 57 57 57 57 57 giving up May 20 02:04:02 ovation /kernel: Automatic reboot in 15 seconds - press a key on the console to abort May 20 02:04:02 ovation /kernel: Rebooting... May 20 02:04:02 ovation /kernel: FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE #0: Fri May 17 23:28:58 PDT 1996 May 20 02:04:02 ovation /kernel: root@ovation.via.net:/usr/src/sys/compile/WWW May 20 02:04:02 ovation /kernel: CPU: 100-MHz Pentium 815\100 (Pentium-class CPU) May 20 02:04:03 ovation /kernel: Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x525 Stepping=5 May 20 02:04:03 ovation /kernel: Features=0x1bf May 20 02:04:03 ovation /kernel: real memory = 134217728 (131072K bytes) May 20 02:04:03 ovation /kernel: avail memory = 127799296 (124804K bytes) May 20 02:04:03 ovation /kernel: Probing for devices on the ISA bus: May 20 02:04:04 ovation /kernel: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard May 20 02:04:04 ovation /kernel: sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> May 20 02:04:05 ovation /kernel: sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa May 20 02:04:05 ovation /kernel: sio0: type 16550A May 20 02:04:05 ovation /kernel: sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa May 20 02:04:06 ovation /kernel: sio1: type 16550A May 20 02:04:06 ovation /kernel: lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa May 20 02:04:06 ovation /kernel: lpt0: Interrupt-driven port May 20 02:04:06 ovation /kernel: lp0: TCP/IP capable interface May 20 02:04:07 ovation /kernel: fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa May 20 02:04:07 ovation /kernel: fdc0: NEC 765 May 20 02:04:07 ovation /kernel: fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in May 20 02:04:07 ovation /kernel: wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa May 20 02:04:07 ovation /kernel: wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): May 20 02:04:07 ovation /kernel: wd0: 1219MB (2496816 sectors), 2477 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S May 20 02:04:08 ovation /kernel: aha0 at 0x330-0x333 irq 11 drq 5 on isa May 20 02:04:08 ovation /kernel: aha0 waiting for scsi devices to settle May 20 02:04:08 ovation /kernel: (aha0:0:0): "NEC CD-ROM CDR-210P 1.0" type 5 removable SCSI 1 May 20 02:04:09 ovation /kernel: cd0(aha0:0:0): CD-ROM cd present.[160790 x 2048 byte records] May 20 02:04:09 ovation /kernel: (aha0:2:0): "SyQuest SQ3270S 3_04" type 0 removable SCSI 2 May 20 02:04:09 ovation /kernel: sd0(aha0:2:0): Direct-Access 256MB (524288 512 byte sectors) May 20 02:04:09 ovation /kernel: mcd0: timeout getting status May 20 02:04:10 ovation /kernel: mcd1: timeout getting status May 20 02:04:10 ovation /kernel: le0: no board found at 0x300 May 20 02:04:11 ovation /kernel: npx0 on motherboard May 20 02:04:11 ovation /kernel: npx0: INT 16 interface May 20 02:04:11 ovation /kernel: Probing for devices on the PCI bus: May 20 02:04:11 ovation /kernel: pci0:0: vendor=0x10b9, device=0x1451, class=bridge (host) [no driver assigned] May 20 02:04:11 ovation /kernel: pci0:2: vendor=0x10b9, device=0x1449, class=old (misc) [no driver assigned] May 20 02:04:11 ovation /kernel: de0 rev 17 int a irq 10 on pci0:5 May 20 02:04:11 ovation /kernel: de0: DC21041 [10Mb/s] pass 1.1 Ethernet address 00:00:c0:6b:b5:c8 May 20 02:04:11 ovation /kernel: pci0:6: CMD, device=0x0640, class=storage (ide) [no driver assigned] May 20 02:04:11 ovation /kernel: WARNING: / was not properly dismounted. May 20 02:04:11 ovation /kernel: de0: enabling 10baseT/UTP port May 20 02:04:12 ovation lpd[140]: restarted May 20 02:04:13 ovation lpd[145]: /usr/adm/lpd-errs: No such file or directory May 20 12:00:49 ovation login: login on ttyv0 as joe May 20 12:28:48 ovation su: joe to root on /dev/ttyv0 May 20 14:16:57 ovation /kernel: panic: kmem_malloc: kmem_map too small May 20 14:16:57 ovation /kernel: May 20 14:16:58 ovation /kernel: syncing disks... panic: kmem_malloc: kmem_map too small May 20 14:16:58 ovation /kernel: Automatic reboot in 15 seconds - press a key on the console to abort May 20 14:16:58 ovation /kernel: Rebooting... May 20 14:16:58 ovation /kernel: FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE #0: Fri May 17 23:28:58 PDT 1996 May 20 14:16:58 ovation /kernel: root@ovation.via.net:/usr/src/sys/compile/WWW May 20 14:16:58 ovation /kernel: CPU: 100-MHz Pentium 815\100 (Pentium-class CPU) May 20 14:16:58 ovation /kernel: Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x525 Stepping=5 May 20 14:16:59 ovation /kernel: Features=0x1bf May 20 14:16:59 ovation /kernel: real memory = 134217728 (131072K bytes) May 20 14:16:59 ovation /kernel: avail memory = 127799296 (124804K bytes) May 20 14:16:59 ovation /kernel: Probing for devices on the ISA bus: May 20 14:16:59 ovation /kernel: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard May 20 14:17:00 ovation /kernel: sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> May 20 14:17:01 ovation /kernel: sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa May 20 14:17:01 ovation /kernel: sio0: type 16550A May 20 14:17:01 ovation /kernel: sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa May 20 14:17:02 ovation /kernel: sio1: type 16550A May 20 14:17:02 ovation /kernel: lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa May 20 14:17:02 ovation /kernel: lpt0: Interrupt-driven port May 20 14:17:02 ovation /kernel: lp0: TCP/IP capable interface May 20 14:17:02 ovation /kernel: fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa May 20 14:17:03 ovation /kernel: fdc0: NEC 765 May 20 14:17:03 ovation /kernel: fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in May 20 14:17:03 ovation /kernel: wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa May 20 14:17:03 ovation /kernel: wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): May 20 14:17:03 ovation /kernel: wd0: 1219MB (2496816 sectors), 2477 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S May 20 14:17:04 ovation /kernel: aha0 at 0x330-0x333 irq 11 drq 5 on isa May 20 14:17:04 ovation /kernel: aha0 waiting for scsi devices to settle May 20 14:17:04 ovation /kernel: (aha0:0:0): "NEC CD-ROM CDR-210P 1.0" type 5 removable SCSI 1 May 20 14:17:04 ovation /kernel: cd0(aha0:0:0): CD-ROM cd present.[160790 x 2048 byte records] May 20 14:17:05 ovation /kernel: (aha0:2:0): "SyQuest SQ3270S 3_04" type 0 removable SCSI 2 May 20 14:17:05 ovation /kernel: sd0(aha0:2:0): Direct-Access 256MB (524288 512 byte sectors) May 20 14:17:05 ovation /kernel: mcd0: timeout getting status May 20 14:17:05 ovation /kernel: mcd1: timeout getting status May 20 14:17:06 ovation /kernel: le0: no board found at 0x300 May 20 14:17:07 ovation /kernel: npx0 on motherboard May 20 14:17:07 ovation /kernel: npx0: INT 16 interface May 20 14:17:07 ovation /kernel: Probing for devices on the PCI bus: May 20 14:17:07 ovation /kernel: pci0:0: vendor=0x10b9, device=0x1451, class=bridge (host) [no driver assigned] May 20 14:17:07 ovation /kernel: pci0:2: vendor=0x10b9, device=0x1449, class=old (misc) [no driver assigned] May 20 14:17:07 ovation /kernel: de0 rev 17 int a irq 10 on pci0:5 May 20 14:17:07 ovation /kernel: de0: DC21041 [10Mb/s] pass 1.1 Ethernet address 00:00:c0:6b:b5:c8 May 20 14:17:07 ovation /kernel: pci0:6: CMD, device=0x0640, class=storage (ide) [no driver assigned] May 20 14:17:07 ovation /kernel: de0: enabling 10baseT/UTP port May 20 14:17:07 ovation /kernel: WARNING: / was not properly dismounted. May 20 14:17:13 ovation lpd[139]: restarted May 20 14:17:13 ovation lpd[142]: /usr/adm/lpd-errs: No such file or directory May 20 14:18:07 ovation login: ROOT LOGIN (root) ON ttyv0 May 20 14:18:08 ovation login: login on ttyv0 as root May 20 14:21:35 ovation /kernel: panic: pmap_zero_page: CMAP busy May 20 14:21:35 ovation /kernel: May 20 14:21:35 ovation /kernel: syncing disks... 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 giving up May 20 14:21:35 ovation /kernel: panic: pmap_zero_page: CMAP busy May 20 14:21:36 ovation /kernel: Automatic reboot in 15 seconds - press a key on the console to abort From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 14:44:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA20716 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:44:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA20709 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:44:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA28549; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:39:50 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605202139.OAA28549@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... To: csdayton@midway.uchicago.edu Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 14:39:50 -0700 (MST) Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605202002.PAA03266@woodlawn.uchicago.edu> from "Soren Dayton" at May 20, 96 03:02:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > and revamp the boot scripts to support > > SVR4-style /etc/init.d for safer package installs. > > I would like to see this happen. I find it much more flexible than > one flat file. Are there compelling reasons for keeping the current > structure for boot scripts. There are compelling modular installation and packaging reasons for *not* keepingthe current structure. One issue that SVR4 does not address (doesn't mean we can't) is a read-only / (and therefore /etc) and the ability to support drop-in per system package/daemon configurations anyway. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 14:49:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA21011 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:49:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA21005; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:49:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA28562; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:43:33 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605202143.OAA28562@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Who wants a DPT SCSI controller driver? To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 14:43:33 -0700 (MST) Cc: taob@io.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605201850.UAA01678@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at May 20, 96 08:50:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hmm. 3Tb? Then somebody should go and write a HSM application to control > a tape robot.. One of the guys I work with here worked on the Lachman HSM code (tape robots, the whole 9 yards). I'm afraid you probably couldn't pay him enough to do it again. 8-). > Could do some testing on our 260+ cartridge DLT library (soon to be > able to hold 260+ * 40Gb ;-) Looks like you're the guy, since you have the hardware to test with. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 14:52:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA21365 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:52:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA21360 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:52:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA28580; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:48:24 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605202148.OAA28580@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Netscape Proxy Server on FreeBSD To: yong@cmu1.chiangmai.ac.th (Yongyuth Sukvanachaikul) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 14:48:24 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Yongyuth Sukvanachaikul" at May 20, 96 06:35:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I wish to use our FreeBSD 2.1-R machine as a Web Proxy Server. I look at > Netscape Proxy Server software but it does not explicitly support > FreeBSD. The only BSD it supports is BSDI(x86 2.0). Can this version > run on FreeBSD 2.1-R right out of the box. If not can FreeBSD emulates > BSDI or is there another Proxy Server software which support FreeBSD > 2.1-R ? There are several proxy servers (squid and harvest) in the available ports. The Netscape proxy server for BSDI 2.x will run under -current, though it will not run under 2.1R, which does not support the BSDI 2.x ABI. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 15:56:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA26237 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 15:56:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA26220; Mon, 20 May 1996 15:55:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id XAA22645; Mon, 20 May 1996 23:53:33 +0100 (BST) To: Jake Hamby cc: current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 May 1996 10:20:23 PDT." Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 23:53:32 +0100 Message-ID: <22643.832632812@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jake Hamby wrote in message ID : > Out of personal preference (whether or not it ever goes in the tree), I'd > also like to reduce the number of statically-linked binaries (i.e. move > /bin to /usr/bin like Linux and Solaris) to those needed for boot and > /stand for emergency use, and revamp the boot scripts to support > SVR4-style /etc/init.d for safer package installs. Again, thanks to > everyone for the high quality of -current and the May 1 SNAP! Some points: 1) After a quick examination of /bin, the majority of the binaries there I'd like to see stay. The couple that I don't quite understand being there (such as `rmail') probably need to stay there for backwards compatability. The current layout of /bin allows you to quickly recover if you screw something up, and to tell the truth I've had occasion to be grateful for the contents of /bin. Perhaps if someone undertakes to make the ``fixit floppy'' idea REALLY work and become 100% useful, I'd agree, but until then (and until I actually remember to keep a fixit floppy around 24/7), I'd vote no. 2) /etc/init.d is EXTREMELY controversial. I was actually thinking recently of introducing a proposoal on -hackers to revive the discussion to see if we could reach some decision (someone else started some other religuous discussion so I held off to save peoples mailboxes and forgot about it ... oops). Basically, I would like to see a /etc/rc.local.d, which meets your requirements of easy package addition, without forcing everyone to go the SYS V route for the entire setup. I actually kinda like the /etc/sysconfig idea, and the way it works in FreeBSD. IF and ONLY IF a decent administration interface is designed and writted for a /etc/rc.d (or whatever else you want to call it) would I be willing to see a move to a rc.d structure. (actually, I can pretty much see a long discussion going on about your last paragraph in particular) Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 16:11:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA27263 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 16:11:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hosaka.smallworks.com (hosaka.SmallWorks.COM [192.207.126.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA27258 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 16:11:07 -0700 (PDT) From: jim@SmallWorks.COM Received: from butthead.SmallWorks.COM by hosaka.smallworks.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA15982; Mon, 20 May 1996 18:11:05 -0500 Received: by butthead.SmallWorks.COM (4.1/SPARCbook_POP1.3) id AA02493; Mon, 20 May 96 18:07:32 CDT Date: Mon, 20 May 96 18:07:32 CDT Message-Id: <9605202307.AA02493@butthead.SmallWorks.COM> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: fast ethernet cards? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk What is the recommended FAST (PCI-base) ethernet card to use on FreeBSD? Jim From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 16:41:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA29177 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 16:41:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns2.harborcom.net (root@ns2.harborcom.net [206.158.4.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA29170 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 16:41:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunghole.harborcom.net (dunn.harborcom.net [206.158.4.245]) by ns2.harborcom.net (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA27741 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 19:41:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605202341.TAA27741@ns2.harborcom.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Bradley Dunn" Organization: Harbor Communications To: freebsd-hackers@freeBSD.org Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 19:39:05 -0500 Subject: I broke libgcc.a :( Reply-to: dunn@harborcom.net Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.31) Sender: owner-hackers@freeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi I was messing around the other night and somehow got my gcc and libgcc.a out of sync. This is on a 2.1-stable machine. Anytime I try to do anything with gcc I get: "ld.so: bad magic number in /usr/lib/libgcc.a" or something very similar. This message also appears when other applications that use shared libraries attempt to execute. Some examples are su and telnetd. I have tried replacing libgcc.a with a copy from another FreeBSD machine that I have, but no luck. I also replaced gcc with the gcc from the other machine, still no go. I think I broke it when doing a make build-tools. Can anyone offer a suggestion? BTW, a make clean, make world dies the first time cc is run. Thanks! Bradley Dunn HarborCom This space for rent From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 17:27:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA02416 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 17:27:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA02398; Mon, 20 May 1996 17:27:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uLfIH-0004JwC; Mon, 20 May 96 17:27 PDT Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 17:27:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... In-Reply-To: <4204.832615564@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 May 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > switched me back to FreeBSD for good. My plan now is to try to bring in > > Solaris/ELF support (possibly from NetBSD) so that I can run all the > > Solaris "goodies" like ksh, Openwindows tools, Motif, and CDE (that, along > > with the fact that I do Solaris/SPARC development at work/school, was the > > main reason I bought Solaris/x86 [at educational discount] in the first > > place). > > YES! I would love this. If nothing else, it would open up large portions > of the Sun Catalyst catalog to us! > > Jordan Don't bet on it, Jordan! Sun promotes Solaris/SPARC much more heavily (as rightly they should) than Solaris/x86 so there are about 10x as many Catalyst apps for Solaris/SPARC as for x86. Still, Christos from NetBSD says that their code runs OpenWindows apps whoohoo! Except for programs which require ttsession which need LWP (i.e. threads). Also, he claimed the code would be fairly portable to FreeBSD, and that our ELF loader should be usable, so I'll give it a try and let you all know how it goes! ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 17:42:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA04289 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 17:42:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA04284; Mon, 20 May 1996 17:42:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA19634; Mon, 20 May 1996 17:43:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 17:43:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Jaye Mathisen To: Gary Palmer cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A MMAP observation In-Reply-To: <9269.832294686@palmer.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 17 May 1996, Gary Palmer wrote: > Actually, since you have the NT SQL server, can't you just point your > SQL client at it and have it work? Well, I want the web server to run on FreeBSD and make queries to an NT SQL server database... From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 17:52:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA05817 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 17:52:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA05812 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 17:52:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA24295; Mon, 20 May 1996 18:51:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199605210051.SAA24295@rover.village.org> To: Peter Mutsaers Subject: Re: internal compiler error Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of 18 May 1996 09:55:21 +0200 Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 18:51:48 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : I agree that if 2.7.3 appears soon that has all bugfixes from the : intermediate (2.7.2.x) versions it is better to wait. One should note that the intermediate versions are *NOT* from the FSF sources, but from the linux folks generally. 2.7.3 will not have all the patches that are in 2.7.2.x because the folks doing 2.7.2.x can't explain the patches to the satisfaction of the FSF folks. It isn't as bad as all that, but just something to remember. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 17:55:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA05980 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 17:55:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA05969 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 17:55:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA24313; Mon, 20 May 1996 18:53:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199605210053.SAA24313@rover.village.org> To: Peter Mutsaers Subject: Re: internal compiler error Cc: nate@sri.MT.net, terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 19 May 1996 13:30:54 +0200 Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 18:53:58 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : that the assembler has a problem with the .weak directive as produced : by this version. As said before, the binutils shall have to be : upgraded too. This is a well known bug that can be fixed in the FreeBSD specific portions of gcc. no need to change the binutils on FreeBSD. The weak stuff isn't needed unless you are doing ELF. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 18:05:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA06889 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 18:05:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (root@orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.41]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA06882 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 18:05:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (scanner@localhost) by orion.webspan.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA27513; Mon, 20 May 1996 21:04:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 21:04:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Watson To: jim@SmallWorks.COM cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: fast ethernet cards? In-Reply-To: <9605202307.AA02493@butthead.SmallWorks.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 May 1996 jim@SmallWorks.COM wrote: > > > What is the recommended FAST (PCI-base) ethernet card to use on FreeBSD? I personally like the SMC EtherPower series of cards. There good cards based on the DEC chipset. -- ===================================| Webspan Inc., ISP Division. FreeBSD 2.1.0 is available now! | Phone: 908-367-8030 ext. 126 -----------------------------------| 500 West Kennedy Blvd., Lakewood, NJ-08701 Turning PCs into Workstations | E-Mail: scanner@webspan.net ===================================| SysAdmin / Network Engineer / Consultant From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 18:16:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA08218 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 18:16:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA08212 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 18:16:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.7.5/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id KAA04874; Tue, 21 May 1996 10:16:19 +0900 (JST) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 10:16:18 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Terry Lambert cc: bsdi-users@bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU In-Reply-To: <199605202119.OAA28500@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 May 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > SDLComm has a new PCI card called the RISCom/Pri. Primary rate has 23 > > 64Kbps B-Channels. I wonder how many cards can be put into a P90 box > > running BSD Unix before the compression overloads the CPU? > > The RISC CPU you mean.. dunno. Probably what I should've meant. I'm not sure how the processing would be divided between the card and the host CPU. > > How heavy is the computational load of something like STAC compression? > > As a percentage of CPU: depends on your CPU. > > As a percentage of file I/O overhead: ~17%, assuming average cache > locality, degrading to ~36% for cache-busting (like IOZone). This > was on a 486 DX/2-66, so your mileage may vary. > -mh From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 18:30:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA09358 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 18:30:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m4.stox.pr.mcs.net (stox.pr.mcs.net [204.137.243.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA09351; Mon, 20 May 1996 18:30:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m4.stox.pr.mcs.net (localhost.stox.pr.mcs.net [127.0.0.1]) by m4.stox.pr.mcs.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA01657; Mon, 20 May 1996 20:30:03 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199605210130.UAA01657@m4.stox.pr.mcs.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.6 3/24/96 To: Wilko Bulte cc: taob@io.org (Brian Tao), msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: HSM for FreeBSD?, was Re: Who wants a DPT SCSI controller driver? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 May 1996 20:50:17 +0200." <199605201850.UAA01678@yedi.iaf.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 20:30:02 -0500 From: "Kenneth P. Stox" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In a seizure of sanity, Wilko Bulte wrote: > Hmm. 3Tb? Then somebody should go and write a HSM application to control > a tape robot.. > > Could do some testing on our 260+ cartridge DLT library (soon to be > able to hold 260+ * 40Gb ;-) Funny you should mention this. I recently picked up an Exabyte 10i robot, and have been pondering this very point. Is there anyone else in the FreeBSD community who has any interest in HSM systems ? -- Ken Stox ICBMnet: 41:48:8N 88:3:26W Imaginary Landscape, LLC. email: stox@mcs.net "Hand Woven Web Sites" MaBellNet: (708) 969-8109 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 18:41:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA10190 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 18:41:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from homer.imm.com ([206.26.62.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA10185 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 18:41:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dah@localhost) by homer.imm.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA02694; Mon, 20 May 1996 18:43:07 -0700 Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 18:43:06 -0700 (PDT) From: "David A. Hauan" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: custom Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk What happened to the custom install option in 960501-SNAP? Better yet a good way to get the src directories so I can compile a new kernel? I am doing this at home and am very limited in disk space, perhaps PORTS? I do like seeing the transfer status! All seem's to be fine thus far. Just really need a kernel! TOCS dave :wq David A. Hauan Systems Administration The Information Minimall dah@imm.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 18:54:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA11002 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 18:54:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA10997 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 18:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id SAA14208 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 18:54:42 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id CAA23493; Tue, 21 May 1996 02:49:14 +0100 (BST) To: Terry Lambert cc: yong@cmu1.chiangmai.ac.th (Yongyuth Sukvanachaikul), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Netscape Proxy Server on FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 May 1996 14:48:24 PDT." <199605202148.OAA28580@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 02:49:13 +0100 Message-ID: <23491.832643353@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote in message ID <199605202148.OAA28580@phaeton.artisoft.com>: > There are several proxy servers (squid and harvest) in the available > ports. > The Netscape proxy server for BSDI 2.x will run under -current, though > it will not run under 2.1R, which does not support the BSDI 2.x ABI. It'll also run under -stable ... the changes were brought over according to the CVS logs. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 19:11:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA11690 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 19:11:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from io.org (io.org [198.133.36.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA11685; Mon, 20 May 1996 19:11:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zot.io.org (taob@zot.io.org [198.133.36.82]) by io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA26916; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:10:06 -0400 Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 22:09:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: "Kenneth P. Stox" cc: Wilko Bulte , msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: HSM for FreeBSD?, was Re: Who wants a DPT SCSI controller driver? In-Reply-To: <199605210130.UAA01657@m4.stox.pr.mcs.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 May 1996, Kenneth P. Stox wrote: > > Funny you should mention this. I recently picked up an Exabyte 10i > robot, and have been pondering this very point. Is there anyone else > in the FreeBSD community who has any interest in HSM systems ? It certainly is outside the realm of FreeBSD's traditional ISP and home markets (funny to talk about "traditional" on such a young BSD), but I would imagine research and industrial environments would benefit from such a beast. How is our support for tape libraries, tape robots, CD jukeboxes? Joerg's recent work with the CD-ROM burner would no doubt figure prominently in an HSM application. :) -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org, taob@ican.net) Systems and Network Administrator, Internet Canada Corp. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 19:47:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA13997 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 19:47:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA13987; Mon, 20 May 1996 19:47:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.5/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id TAA10422; Mon, 20 May 1996 19:46:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id TAA11579; Mon, 20 May 1996 19:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605210243.TAA11579@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Joe McGuckin cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Help - Panic Attacks! In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 May 1996 14:33:41 PDT." <199605202133.OAA21060@ns.via.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 19:43:45 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Our web machine (FreeBSD 2.1, 128Meg) panicked today - twice in a row. > >Can anyone shed some light on this? >May 19 02:03:56 ovation /kernel: panic: kmem_malloc: kmem_map too small This is caused by a bug in the calculation of the size of the malloc area, causing the system to calculate it far too small when a large NMBCLUSTERS value is used. The attached patch fixes this problem. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project Index: kern_malloc.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/kern/kern_malloc.c,v retrieving revision 1.12 retrieving revision 1.12.4.1 diff -c -r1.12 -r1.12.4.1 *** kern_malloc.c 1995/05/30 08:05:33 1.12 --- kern_malloc.c 1996/01/29 11:20:25 1.12.4.1 *************** *** 31,37 **** * SUCH DAMAGE. * * @(#)kern_malloc.c 8.3 (Berkeley) 1/4/94 ! * $Id: kern_malloc.c,v 1.12 1995/05/30 08:05:33 rgrimes Exp $ */ #include --- 31,37 ---- * SUCH DAMAGE. * * @(#)kern_malloc.c 8.3 (Berkeley) 1/4/94 ! * $Id: kern_malloc.c,v 1.12.4.1 1996/01/29 11:20:25 davidg Exp $ */ #include *************** *** 39,44 **** --- 39,45 ---- #include #include #include + #include #include #include *************** *** 371,384 **** #if (MAXALLOCSAVE < CLBYTES) ERROR!_kmeminit:_MAXALLOCSAVE_too_small #endif ! npg = VM_KMEM_SIZE/ NBPG; ! if( npg > cnt.v_page_count) ! npg = cnt.v_page_count; kmemusage = (struct kmemusage *) kmem_alloc(kernel_map, (vm_size_t)(npg * sizeof(struct kmemusage))); kmem_map = kmem_suballoc(kernel_map, (vm_offset_t *)&kmembase, ! (vm_offset_t *)&kmemlimit, (vm_size_t)(npg * NBPG), FALSE); #ifdef KMEMSTATS for (indx = 0; indx < MINBUCKET + 16; indx++) { if (1 << indx >= CLBYTES) --- 372,384 ---- #if (MAXALLOCSAVE < CLBYTES) ERROR!_kmeminit:_MAXALLOCSAVE_too_small #endif ! npg = (nmbclusters * MCLBYTES + VM_KMEM_SIZE) / PAGE_SIZE; kmemusage = (struct kmemusage *) kmem_alloc(kernel_map, (vm_size_t)(npg * sizeof(struct kmemusage))); kmem_map = kmem_suballoc(kernel_map, (vm_offset_t *)&kmembase, ! (vm_offset_t *)&kmemlimit, (vm_size_t)(npg * PAGE_SIZE), ! FALSE); #ifdef KMEMSTATS for (indx = 0; indx < MINBUCKET + 16; indx++) { if (1 << indx >= CLBYTES) *************** *** 387,393 **** bucket[indx].kb_elmpercl = CLBYTES / (1 << indx); bucket[indx].kb_highwat = 5 * bucket[indx].kb_elmpercl; } ! for (indx = 0; indx < M_LAST; indx++) ! kmemstats[indx].ks_limit = npg * NBPG * 6 / 10; #endif } --- 387,399 ---- bucket[indx].kb_elmpercl = CLBYTES / (1 << indx); bucket[indx].kb_highwat = 5 * bucket[indx].kb_elmpercl; } ! /* ! * Limit maximum memory for each type to 60% of malloc area size or ! * 60% of physical memory, whichever is smaller. ! */ ! for (indx = 0; indx < M_LAST; indx++) { ! kmemstats[indx].ks_limit = min(cnt.v_page_count * PAGE_SIZE, ! (npg * PAGE_SIZE - nmbclusters * MCLBYTES)) * 6 / 10; ! } #endif } From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 20:02:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA15127 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 20:02:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hamby1.lightside.net (hamby1.lightside.net [198.81.209.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA15120; Mon, 20 May 1996 20:02:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jehamby@localhost) by hamby1.lightside.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA00418; Mon, 20 May 1996 20:05:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: hamby1.lightside.net: jehamby owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 20:05:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby X-Sender: jehamby@hamby1 To: Gary Palmer cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... In-Reply-To: <22643.832632812@palmer.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 May 1996, Gary Palmer wrote: > Some points: > > 1) After a quick examination of /bin, the majority of the binaries > there I'd like to see stay. The couple that I don't quite > understand being there (such as `rmail') probably need to stay > there for backwards compatability. Okay, but there are already copies of some of these in /stand! Also, if nothing else, I would like a shared version of /bin/sh and /bin/csh for faster interactive use, with a static /sbin/sh for boot-up scripts only. Comments? > 2) /etc/init.d is EXTREMELY controversial. I was actually thinking Yes, that's why I deleted the rest of your paragraph. :-) The main reasons against /etc/init.d seem to be NIH and a general religious distrust of anything System V. I would like to keep the existing /etc/rc and make this simply for local ports, but the only problem is that ports sometimes need to go in the middle of the boot sequence, rather at the end. If they ONLY needed to go at the end, and relative ordering didn't matter, then install scripts could simply "cat >>/etc/rc.local" but this is not the case, and so rc-style boot is so much more flexible than any of the alternatives discussed, that I would highly recommend it myself! But enough discussion, I think we simply need to DO something, post patches, and then let them stand (or be voted down) on their own merits. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ |Jake Hamby| Ask me about Unix, FreeBSD, Solaris, The Tick, Motif, or NT, eh?| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Hi, can I interest you in buying some meat over the phone?" -Lotus commercial From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 20:12:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA15877 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 20:12:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA15871 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 20:12:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id EAA23829; Tue, 21 May 1996 04:12:23 +0100 (BST) To: Jake Hamby cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 May 1996 20:05:46 PDT." Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 04:12:22 +0100 Message-ID: <23827.832648342@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jake Hamby wrote in message ID : > On Mon, 20 May 1996, Gary Palmer wrote: > > Some points: > > > > 1) After a quick examination of /bin, the majority of the binaries > > there I'd like to see stay. The couple that I don't quite > > understand being there (such as `rmail') probably need to stay > > there for backwards compatability. > Okay, but there are already copies of some of these in /stand! Also, if > nothing else, I would like a shared version of /bin/sh and /bin/csh for > faster interactive use, with a static /sbin/sh for boot-up scripts only. > Comments? A lot of people, myself included, tend to blow /stand away once installed. There isn't a lot of need for it generally once the machine is installed. I must admit I will not argue if you move csh from /bin. I don't see much use for it myself. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 20:13:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA15907 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 20:13:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA15869 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 20:12:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.7.5/8.6.5) id JAA08088; Tue, 21 May 1996 09:09:34 +0600 (GMT+0600) From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199605210309.JAA08088@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 09:09:33 +0600 (ESD) Cc: csdayton@midway.uchicago.edu, jehamby@lightside.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199605202139.OAA28549@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at May 20, 96 02:39:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > and revamp the boot scripts to support > > > SVR4-style /etc/init.d for safer package installs. > > > > I would like to see this happen. I find it much more flexible than > > one flat file. Are there compelling reasons for keeping the current > > structure for boot scripts. > > There are compelling modular installation and packaging reasons for > *not* keepingthe current structure. > > One issue that SVR4 does not address (doesn't mean we can't) is > a read-only / (and therefore /etc) and the ability to support > drop-in per system package/daemon configurations anyway. How about the HP-UX 10 approach ? They have divided their boot scripts into 2 parts: one, the fixed is in /sbin/init.d (marked as read-only) and the tunes are in /etc/rc.config (global definitions) and /etc/rc.config.d (definitions for particular scripts). This is very like FreeBSD rc and sysconfig files but splitted. May be it is a good model ? -SB From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 20:42:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA18191 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 20:42:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from paloalto.access.hp.com (daemon@paloalto.access.hp.com [15.254.56.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA18186 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 20:41:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fakir.india.hp.com by paloalto.access.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA134330105; Mon, 20 May 1996 20:41:51 -0700 Received: from localhost by fakir.india.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA215120311; Tue, 21 May 1996 09:15:12 +0530 Message-Id: <199605210345.AA215120311@fakir.india.hp.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: I-/D- cache coherency issues Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 09:15:10 +0530 From: A JOSEPH KOSHY Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm looking at generating machine code on the fly and executing it later. Since many of the newer uPs have separate I- and D- caches without consistency checking between the two, this requires a way to ensure that the instructions executed from a virtual address range are what were written out to memory by the code generator. Most I- cache implementations are simple and don't snoop the bus so the responsibility for maintaining coherency rests with the OS. Before the list jumps on me about the horrors of self-modifying code I'd like to point out that rolling your machine code is useful in: o Direct threaded interpreters: FORTH comes to mind. o Reiser raster ops: turns out that this is one of the ways you get decent performance out of torturous hardware like the IBM (vanilla) VGA --- you generate m/c code for your graphics operation special cased for operation desired and then let it rip. o I would hazard a guess that a native mode compiler for the Java virtual machine would need similar facilities too. o Then of course there is the amusement value :-). The magic incantation for correctly executing freshly generated code varies from a simple "jmp $+2" on a '386 to more arcane calls to PALcode or equivalent on the newer riscs. I.e. its pretty much processor architecture and memory architecture dependent. So my questions are: (a) Do we have a means in userland of ensuring that a particular range of virtual addresses is flushed from the I- or D- cache? Something that would work across {Free,Net,*}BSD hopefully? (b) Is there a non-m/c specific way this can be done from within the kernel? I.e. are the suitable kernel VM primitives that one could invoke? Thanks, Koshy From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 20:53:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA19311 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 20:53:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA19305; Mon, 20 May 1996 20:52:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA06213; Mon, 20 May 1996 20:52:27 -0700 (PDT) To: Jake Hamby cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 May 1996 17:27:15 PDT." Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 20:52:27 -0700 Message-ID: <6211.832650747@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Don't bet on it, Jordan! Sun promotes Solaris/SPARC much more heavily (as > rightly they should) than Solaris/x86 so there are about 10x as many Oh, I know that (said Catalyst catalog also makes that fact pretty obvious :-) but 10% of 2000 apps is still a lot better than the 100% coverage of 3-4 apps we have now. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 20:56:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA19597 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 20:56:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA19585 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 20:56:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA06281; Mon, 20 May 1996 20:55:49 -0700 (PDT) To: "David A. Hauan" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: custom In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 May 1996 18:43:06 PDT." Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 20:55:48 -0700 Message-ID: <6279.832650948@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > What happened to the custom install option in 960501-SNAP? What happened as in "where did it go?" - But it's still there. What happened as in "why is it broken?" - AFAIK there is only one significant bug with custom and that's that it fails to write out the /etc/sysconfig and /etc/resolv.conf files on "commit" - this has been fixed in more recent -currents. I see no reason you should not be able to invoke it and use it to extract the src distribution. The individual steps are quite straight-forward (and well documented). Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 21:03:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA20085 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 21:03:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scooter.quickweb.com (scooter.quickweb.com [199.212.134.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA20077 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 21:02:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mark@localhost) by scooter.quickweb.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA09369; Tue, 21 May 1996 00:08:22 -0400 Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 00:08:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Mayo To: Dave Andersen cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Netscape Proxy Server on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199605202208.QAA13512@shell.aros.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 May 1996, Dave Andersen wrote: > Lo and behold, Mark Mayo once said: > > > I would be nice to see Squid packaged too! It's basically the > > continuation of the Harvest work (the non-commerical split..) and it > > works quite nicely! We have it setup in a hierarchical system, with a > > total of about 2 Gigs of cache. Works very well. So far it seems to be > > about 45% effective on cache hits. > > *whistle* How many customers do you have using the proxy? I'm beta > testing it with about 120 megs of cache and about .. I think 20-30 of my > dialin users, and getting a 16% non-local cache hit rate so far. I'd die > for 45% in the production cache, but it's probably a function of the > number of users. Actually, Squid is used in a University environment -- each department is behind an IP firewall, with a Squid proxy server on each gateway. Most departments use between 100MB to 500MB for their caches.. all of the departmental Squids are setup with their 'parent' being a central HP/UX machie on the pipe out of the U (the parent server has 2GB of cache space). The setup works superbly, because each department usually is interested in the same sort of sites, and sites that aren't in the local neighbor's disk are sent to the main server.. all in all we estimate about 45% success on cache hits. We were quite pleased. When we were beta testing on a single server (for the CIS department) we were getting about the same figures as you.. about 20% (again, the similar interests of the CIS dept. equals greater cache success!). Lesson of the day: squid rocks in an academic setting! In another setting (ISP), I'm running a Netsape Proxy (v1.12) -- but because it lacks the ideal architecture of the University's network, we only peak at 30% non-local cache hit success. That's with 1 GB and about 150-175 simultaneous users. I suspect you will see your percentages rise as you add more users. Again, I don't have any figures for the commercial setting, but I found that as more users came on, the more effective the proxy cache became. Be warned though - with 175 users, we often see our P100 with 48MB of RAM essentially fold under. Users hate it when the proxy doesn't respond...... under high loads, the best thing to do (at least with Netscape's product) is to give the cache all the breathing room it wants (at least 850 MB, probably more like 2GB) and only run the garbage collector late at night, not continusouly as the NS-proxy defaults too (just make sure you don't run out of disk space ;) For us, it was cheaper to throw a few extra gigs at the proxy and do the garbage-collection at non-peak times than it was to add more RAM and a faster processor and let the garbage-collector clean up expired docs all the time... Disk is the cheapest component in other words :-) Good luck with the caching! It can save you lots 'O dollars in the long run! -Mark :%t$sig -- Oops, thought I was in vi.. ------------------------------------------- | Mark Mayo mark@quickweb.com | | C-Soft www.quickweb.com | ------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 21:25:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA21604 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 21:25:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA21598; Mon, 20 May 1996 21:25:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA06699; Mon, 20 May 1996 21:25:04 -0700 (PDT) To: Jake Hamby cc: Gary Palmer , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 May 1996 20:05:46 PDT." Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 21:25:04 -0700 Message-ID: <6697.832652704@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Okay, but there are already copies of some of these in /stand! Also, if Which actually should probably get blown away automagically at some point soon in sysinstall's lifetime. I don't think that /stand is useful enough to justify its existance. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 22:26:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA28066 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:26:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA28058; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:26:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA29987; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:21:34 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605210521.WAA29987@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 22:21:33 -0700 (MST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at May 20, 96 05:27:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > switched me back to FreeBSD for good. My plan now is to try to bring in > > > Solaris/ELF support (possibly from NetBSD) so that I can run all the > > > Solaris "goodies" like ksh, Openwindows tools, Motif, and CDE (that, along > > > with the fact that I do Solaris/SPARC development at work/school, was the > > > main reason I bought Solaris/x86 [at educational discount] in the first > > > place). > > > > YES! I would love this. If nothing else, it would open up large portions > > of the Sun Catalyst catalog to us! > > Don't bet on it, Jordan! Sun promotes Solaris/SPARC much more heavily (as > rightly they should) than Solaris/x86 so there are about 10x as many > Catalyst apps for Solaris/SPARC as for x86. Still, Christos from NetBSD > says that their code runs OpenWindows apps whoohoo! Except for programs > which require ttsession which need LWP (i.e. threads). Also, he claimed > the code would be fairly portable to FreeBSD, and that our ELF loader > should be usable, so I'll give it a try and let you all know how it goes! Which LWP? The SunOS 4.x LWP, which is a user space library that uses aioread/aiowrite/aiowait/aiocancel, or the kernel threads in Solaris, also called LWP's? "There are no SunOS 4.x LWP's, there are only Solaris LWP's!" "We have *always* been at war with the East!" "There is no Dana, only Zuul!" The SunOS LWP's are pretty easy. The Solaris LWP's are a bit harder. They require kernel preemption and multithreading. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 22:51:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA29210 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:51:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA29204 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:51:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA23269; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:47:06 +1000 Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 15:47:06 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199605210547.PAA23269@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: dutchman@spase.nl, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: Glitch in install procedure. Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> I just installed FreeBSD as a secondary OS on a machine. I dumped it into the >> upper 300 Mb of a 810 Mb disk. Funny thing is that neither the installation >> procedure, nor booteasy issued a warning that it would not be possible to >> actually boot from the partition, as it is beyond the reach of the BIOS. >That's because it couldn't ask BIOS to tell it what was good. Actually, it's because it couldn't ask ufs for where the blocks in /kernel are. It knows what the BIOS geometry is supposed to be since it just created a partition table that usually won't work unless you told it the BIOS geometry. >Silly FreeBSD, trusted you to know what you were doing. 8-). It's a feature that you can write /kernel on a file system whose partition has BIOS cylinders >= 1024. Silly BSD allows writing to such file systems :-). (Except possibly at install time, there is nothing special about /kernel.). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 22:51:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA29245 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:51:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from roper.uwyo.edu (roper.uwyo.edu [129.72.60.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA29240; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:51:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from plains.uwyo.edu (plains.uwyo.edu) by ROPER.UWYO.EDU (PMDF V5.0-4 #14244) id <01I4Y3KOPF0G000LEN@ROPER.UWYO.EDU>; Mon, 20 May 1996 23:41:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PLAINS.UWYO.EDU by PLAINS.UWYO.EDU (PMDF V5.0-6 #14244) id <01I4Y3KOXE28000OKT@PLAINS.UWYO.EDU>; Mon, 20 May 1996 23:41:52 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 23:41:52 -0600 (MDT) From: "Andrew N. Edmond" Subject: CRON: it loves me To: questions@freebsd.org Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am getting from my cron daemon (every FIVE minutes!), the following message: From root@shaman.lycaeum.org Mon May 20 23:37:44 1996 Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 23:35:00 -0600 (MDT) From: Cron Daemon To: root@shaman.lycaeum.org Subject: Cron root /usr/libexec/atrun root: not found which, in the tradition of UNIX, is pretty vague. History preceding this symptom: 1) SUP from 2.1R to 2.1-stable. Built kernel and entire source tree. 2) Edit /etc/crontab with pico (wasn't aware of the crontab -e utility). Realized my mistake, and copied the original /etc/crontab from the FreeBSD Live Filesystem CDROM (CD number two from Walnut Creek) over the corrupted /etc/crontab 3) Started receiving the mail every file minutes as seen above. You know, I do like getting mail, but when it's from cron... ;) Any ideas on how to cure this? Andy ............................................................................. . Andrew Edmond . Children of a future age, . .. edmond@plains.uwyo.edu ... Reading this indignant page, .. ... University of Wyoming ..... Know that in a former time, ... .... Botany Department ....... A path to God was thought a crime. .... .....................VISIONARY PLANTS LIST................................... -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQCNAzEWhNYAAAEEAN9Q4ABprWSGDKaY8OtrfFFcF6u5E6ua2ZNKgpJJcwU7rDHk nRRoDtvtovgO1yH5O9JvTgSgtxEWpnfLpl9N616jC77b+4C5dyZS+hIBUiCA4bwy hf2Hu3Z7QJasxEBVEdxAbvuUfuBDrsxBJ6SCw4ukAX66wa9RCO0m53dhSnKVAAUR tClBbmRyZXcgTi4gRWRtb25kIDxlZG1vbmRAcGxhaW5zLnV3eW8uZWR1PokAlAMF EDEWh3LtJud3YUpylQEBZVcD926EzvXLmL7hfeM/LNtgWah67m/g+lR87IxulcJ+ 4peUHUKUgBTglIzlSPURTHpEDQKc3wF2o1ezSdzcFjkdQex8wGZYMsCf6waREX2p s5LB7FdTGF4aciCfvQX5shptoLljCd3UPF56BQTS0raqh+WlFjV3w5wRX4ZfJSCR 4Io= =PqOx -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 23:00:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA29671 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 23:00:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA29655 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 23:00:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id IAA29175 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:00:05 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA15040 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:00:04 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA08699 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:21:44 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605210521.HAA08699@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 07:21:44 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from Jake Hamby at "May 20, 96 08:05:46 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jake Hamby wrote: > Okay, but there are already copies of some of these in /stand! Also, if It's always been our policy that /stand is not needed for system recovery (though perhaps useful). Managing the large blurb binary in /stand (or are it two of them? maybe) in case of partial upgrades (-current etc.) is much more difficult than the separate binaries under /bin. > nothing else, I would like a shared version of /bin/sh and /bin/csh for > faster interactive use, with a static /sbin/sh for boot-up scripts only. > Comments? Shared binaries are slower, not faster. ;) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 23:00:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA29753 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 23:00:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA29725 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 23:00:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id HAA29125; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:59:58 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id HAA15034; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:59:58 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA08886; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:39:11 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605210539.HAA08886@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: I broke libgcc.a :( To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 07:39:11 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: dunn@harborcom.net Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605202341.TAA27741@ns2.harborcom.net> from Bradley Dunn at "May 20, 96 07:39:05 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Bradley Dunn wrote: > "ld.so: bad magic number in /usr/lib/libgcc.a" > Can anyone offer a > suggestion? BTW, a make clean, make world dies the first time cc is > run. Thanks! Backup your system from tape. Are you sure it's libgcc.a, or perhaps libgcc.so.*? This one has gone in recent systems, but used to be there for quite some time. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 23:01:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA29844 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 23:01:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA29837 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 23:01:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id IAA29201; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:00:22 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA15045; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:00:10 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA08815; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:30:00 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605210530.HAA08815@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: fast ethernet cards? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 07:30:00 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: jim@SmallWorks.COM Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from Chris Watson at "May 20, 96 09:04:54 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Chris Watson wrote: > > What is the recommended FAST (PCI-base) ethernet card to use on FreeBSD? > I personally like the SMC EtherPower series of cards. > There good cards based on the DEC chipset. We've also got a ``don't'' candidate: the 3Com 3c59x cards. Both the driver and the cards are rather weak (and i see the word `fast' in your question -- the driver doesn't support the 3c595 anyway). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 23:01:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA29900 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 23:01:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA29895 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 23:01:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id IAA29245; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:01:35 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA15062; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:01:29 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA09095; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:56:45 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605210556.HAA09095@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Where is kgdb? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 07:56:45 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: jfesler@calweb.com (Jason Fesler) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960520211330.00747480@jpop.calweb.com> from Jason Fesler at "May 20, 96 02:13:30 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jason Fesler wrote: > Does anyone know where kgdb went from FreeBSD-current? Or should I use the > RELEASE version? It's in the handbook. :-) Seriously, kgdb is not really a program of its own anymore (though you could call gdb by this name, and it would automagically assume the -k flag then -- hint, hint!). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 23:02:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA29997 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 23:02:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA29991 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 23:02:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id IAA29182 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:00:06 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA15041 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:00:06 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA08718 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:24:13 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605210524.HAA08718@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 07:24:13 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <23827.832648342@palmer.demon.co.uk> from Gary Palmer at "May 21, 96 04:12:22 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Gary Palmer wrote: > I must admit I will not argue if you move csh from /bin. I don't see > much use for it myself. I heavily object. :) It's the default shell for BSD's, and many of us are used to use it. More importantly, it's a nice to have ``recovery shell'' for single- user operation in case you've blown your /stand, and the /bin/sh copy is damaged. (Remember, single-user now asks for which shell to use.) Even for a no-csh-weenie, it should be enough to pick the /bin/sh copy from the backup tape. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 20 23:15:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA00712 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 23:15:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irbs.irbs.com ([199.182.75.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA00707 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 23:15:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jc@localhost) by irbs.irbs.com (8.7.5/8.6.6) id CAA22689; Tue, 21 May 1996 02:14:26 -0400 (EDT) From: John Capo Message-Id: <199605210614.CAA22689@irbs.irbs.com> Subject: Re: DNS question To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 02:14:26 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605200307.VAA04583@rocky.sri.MT.net> from Nate Williams at "May 19, 96 09:07:58 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams writes: > > Name: ns.mt.sri.com > Address: 206.127.76.97 > Aliases: 97.76.127.206.in-addr.arpa > > > gateway:/etc/namedb/new # host 206.127.76.97 > Host not found, try again. > I'll bet you have some log messages that look sort of like this: host: gethostby*.gethostanswer: asked for "131.75.182.199.in-addr.arpa", \ got "131.128.75.182.199.in-addr.arpa" The libc resolver is broken for non-terminal in-addr lookups. *** /usr/stable/src/lib/libc/net/gethostbydns.c Tue Apr 30 22:21:09 1996 --- lib/libc/net/gethostbydns.c Thu May 2 15:57:38 1996 *************** *** 186,192 **** --- 186,194 ---- int haveanswer, had_error; int toobig = 0; char tbuf[MAXDNAME+1]; + const char *tname; + tname = qname; host.h_name = NULL; eom = answer->buf + anslen; /* *************** *** 277,282 **** --- 279,303 ---- buflen -= n; continue; } + if (qtype == T_PTR && type == T_CNAME) { + n = dn_expand(answer->buf, eom, cp, tbuf, sizeof tbuf); + if (n < 0) { + had_error++; + continue; + } + cp += n; + /* Get canonical name. */ + n = strlen(tbuf) + 1; /* for the \0 */ + if (n > buflen) { + had_error++; + continue; + } + strcpy(bp, tbuf); + tname = bp; + bp += n; + buflen -= n; + continue; + } if (type != qtype) { /* CNAME->PTR should not cause a log message. */ if (!(qtype == T_PTR && type == T_CNAME)) *************** *** 289,295 **** } switch (type) { case T_PTR: ! if (strcasecmp(qname, bp) != 0) { syslog(LOG_NOTICE|LOG_AUTH, AskedForGot, qname, bp); cp += n; --- 310,316 ---- } switch (type) { case T_PTR: ! if (strcasecmp(tname, bp) != 0) { syslog(LOG_NOTICE|LOG_AUTH, AskedForGot, qname, bp); cp += n; John Capo jc@irbs.com IRBS Engineering FreeBSD Servers and Workstations (954) 792-9551 Unix/Internet Consulting - ISP Solutions From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 00:35:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA04765 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 00:35:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA04760 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 00:35:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA27339; Tue, 21 May 1996 17:30:49 +1000 Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 17:30:49 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199605210730.RAA27339@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, j@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: Involking DDB Cc: dennis@etinc.com Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Is there a way to start DDB without a system crash...ie run the kernel in >> some sort of monitoring mode on demand? >Several of them. >... >Hit the ``hot key'' on the PC keyboard. This is Ctrl-Alt-ESC by >default, though i think some syscons keymaps tweak it onto another >combination (which i forgot). I thought that Ctrl-PrintScreen was standard and Ctrl-Alt-ESC was the old-fashioned way :-). Both are BAD. The key releases for the shift keys should be handled by the driver in the debugger, and it isn't clear how they should be communicated to the standard driver except of course if the standard driver is abused for the debugger driver. It's safer to throw the key releases for non-shift keys away. >... `Debugger("foo");' in your code. `asm("int $3")' in your code. `breakpoint();' in your code. Your code may be a special lkm for monitoring for interesting events... Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 01:03:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA06317 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 01:03:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news.siemens.at (news.siemens.at [192.138.228.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA06305 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 01:03:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sol1.gud.siemens.co.at (sol-f.gud.siemens-austria) by news.siemens.at with SMTP id AA04552 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 21 May 1996 10:01:51 +0200 Received: from ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at by sol1.gud.siemens.co.at with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #7 for ) id m0uLmNe-00020EC; Tue, 21 May 96 10:01 MET DST Received: by ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at (1.37.109.16/1.37) id AA156475487; Tue, 21 May 1996 09:58:07 +0200 From: "Hr.Ladavac" Message-Id: <199605210758.AA156475487@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at> Subject: Hi again: PD optical drives To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 09:58:06 +0200 (MESZ) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It's been a while. BTW, did anyone have a go at the PD opticals? /Marino From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 01:19:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA07394 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 01:19:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA07385; Tue, 21 May 1996 01:19:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id SAA28887; Tue, 21 May 1996 18:08:17 +1000 Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 18:08:17 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199605210808.SAA28887@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: gpalmer@freebsd.org, jehamby@lightside.com Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Okay, but there are already copies of some of these in /stand! Also, if >> nothing else, I would like a shared version of /bin/sh and /bin/csh for >> faster interactive use, with a static /sbin/sh for boot-up scripts only. >> Comments? >A lot of people, myself included, tend to blow /stand away once >installed. There isn't a lot of need for it generally once the machine >is installed. Some people, myself included, have never installed /stand. At least one person, myself included :-), uses dynamically linked binaries for everything except ld.so and cc1. I recently investigated how much the dynamically linked executables in /bin cost for `make' and `make install' in /usr/src. On a P133 it takes about 8ms to exec a small dynamically linked binary and about 2ms to exec a small statically linked binary. /bin/sh isn't execed all that much (because make is smart enough to exec things directly). However, expr and test are execed a lot for the stupid shell scripts for handling MLINKS. It takes about 150 seconds longer than it should to create all the links for libraries alone. About 50 seconds of this is for unnecessary exec overhead and the rest is because too many processes are execed and sync metadata updates are too slow. >I must admit I will not argue if you move csh from /bin. I don't see >much use for it myself. It is root's default shell. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 01:24:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA07773 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 01:24:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caipfs.rutgers.edu (root@caipfs.rutgers.edu [128.6.91.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA07729; Tue, 21 May 1996 01:24:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huahaga.rutgers.edu (huahaga.rutgers.edu [128.6.155.53]) by caipfs.rutgers.edu (8.6.9+bestmx+oldruq+newsunq+grosshack/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA03067; Tue, 21 May 1996 04:23:57 -0400 Received: (davem@localhost) by huahaga.rutgers.edu (8.6.9+bestmx+oldruq+newsunq+grosshack/8.6.9) id EAA07997; Tue, 21 May 1996 04:23:57 -0400 Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 04:23:57 -0400 Message-Id: <199605210823.EAA07997@huahaga.rutgers.edu> From: "David S. Miller" To: terry@lambert.org CC: jehamby@lightside.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199605210521.WAA29987@phaeton.artisoft.com> (message from Terry Lambert on Mon, 20 May 1996 22:21:33 -0700 (MST)) Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk From: Terry Lambert Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 22:21:33 -0700 (MST) The SunOS LWP's are pretty easy. Actually SunOS does do lwp scheduling where it checks for AST's etc. although I don't know how relevant that is to whats being discussed. Furthermore, the way Solaris does threads in the kernel has been proven to be a lose (pre-emption, a billion mutexes in the kernel, another thousand read writer locks) and expect the industry to move in "another" direction. Computer science has proven that current smp technology (read as: what SVR4.2MP based kernels do right now) cannot scale past 32 cpu's without an exponential loss in performance. Clustering is the answer and can scale to more CPU's than you can count in an unsigned char. ;-) Later, David S. Miller davem@caip.rutgers.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 01:44:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA09370 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 01:44:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhub.aros.net (mailhub.aros.net [205.164.111.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA09364 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 01:44:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from terra.aros.net (terra.aros.net [205.164.111.10]) by mailhub.aros.net (8.7.5/Unknown) with ESMTP id DAA12920 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 03:10:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from angio@localhost) by terra.aros.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) id CAA06949 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 21 May 1996 02:44:25 -0600 From: Dave Andersen Message-Id: <199605210844.CAA06949@terra.aros.net> Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... (fwd) To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 02:44:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 PGP2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm not sure. What might be nice is nuking the sysinstall cruft from /stand, but keeping the statically linked binaries necessary for life, the universe, and everything, and renmaing the thing to /emerg. That seems to be the only rationale for keeping /stand around anymore, but it does actually come in useful that way. :) (missing ld.so what?) -Dave Andersen Lo and behold, Jordan K. Hubbard once said: > > > Okay, but there are already copies of some of these in /stand! Also, if > > Which actually should probably get blown away automagically at some > point soon in sysinstall's lifetime. I don't think that /stand is > useful enough to justify its existance. > > Jordan > -- angio@aros.net Complete virtual hosting and business-oriented system administration Internet services. (WWW, FTP, email) http://www.aros.net/ http://www.aros.net/about/virtual "There are only two industries that refer to thier customers as 'users'." From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 02:31:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA11921 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 02:31:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA11914 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 02:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA09292; Tue, 21 May 1996 02:30:25 -0700 (PDT) To: "David S. Miller" cc: terry@lambert.org, jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 May 1996 04:23:57 EDT." <199605210823.EAA07997@huahaga.rutgers.edu> Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 02:30:25 -0700 Message-ID: <9290.832671025@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [-current dropped; things are either -current or -hackers material but not both since too many folks span both lists] > Clustering is the answer and can scale to more CPU's than you can > count in an unsigned char. ;-) I'd be quite interested in hearing more about how you might see building workable clusters for WWW and FTP service provision, as would I daresay every ISP who's ever started with 1 FreeBSD system and wound up with 20 of them (the administration for which starts to resemble the juggling of hand grenades). :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 03:42:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA15727 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 03:42:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA15722 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 03:42:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from allegro.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0uLotD-000QYWC; Tue, 21 May 96 12:42 MET DST From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA23956; Tue, 21 May 1996 12:17:40 +0200 Message-Id: <199605211017.MAA23956@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: Glitch in install procedure. To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 12:17:40 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: dutchman@spase.nl, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605202104.OAA28405@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at May 20, 96 02:04:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > >> I just installed FreeBSD as a secondary OS on a machine. I dumped it into the >> upper 300 Mb of a 810 Mb disk. Funny thing is that neither the installation >> procedure, nor booteasy issued a warning that it would not be possible to >> actually boot from the partition, as it is beyond the reach of the BIOS. > > That's because it couldn't ask BIOS to tell it what was good. No, but it could issue a warning. Kees didn't ask for it to refuse to install. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 04:23:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA18214 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 04:23:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay5.UU.NET (relay5.UU.NET [192.48.96.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA18194 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 04:23:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uucp2.UU.NET by relay5.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: uucp2.UU.NET [192.48.96.33]) id QQaqqn11292; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:23:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uanet.UUCP by uucp2.UU.NET with UUCP/RMAIL ; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:23:41 -0400 Received: by crocodil.monolit.kiev.ua; Tue, 21 May 96 14:22:06 +0300 Received: (from dk@localhost) by rock.lot.kiev.ua (8.6.11/dk#3) id MAA05631; Tue, 21 May 1996 12:32:46 +0300 Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 12:32:46 +0300 From: Dmitry Kohmanyuk Message-Id: <199605210932.MAA05631@rock.lot.kiev.ua> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... Newsgroups: cs-monolit.gated.lists.freebsd.hackers X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <6697.832652704@time.cdrom.com> you wrote: > > Okay, but there are already copies of some of these in /stand! Also, if > Which actually should probably get blown away automagically at some > point soon in sysinstall's lifetime. I don't think that /stand is > useful enough to justify its existance. I tell you, that having a /stand saved me a hell lot of time when putting bad memory chips in my server box trashed my /bin directory two days ago. (I still don't understand why, having no writing activity on root filesystem (my /tmp is a MFS, and /var is on separate partitition) I have got that; maybe just random memory corruption? I use PCI NCR SCSI card). Anyway, /stand is less than 2 Mb; I better have it as a safety net all the time but have to reinstall the system once damaged root filesystem. (I don't know an easy way to restore only root without manually extracting all the needed files from the distribution using fixit floppy.) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 04:38:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA18859 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 04:38:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA18839; Tue, 21 May 1996 04:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet1.buffnet.net (mmdf@buffnet1.buffnet.net [205.246.19.10]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA26434; Tue, 21 May 1996 06:40:10 GMT Received: from buffnet5.buffnet.net by buffnet1.buffnet.net id aa22016; 21 May 96 7:38 EDT Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 07:38:17 -0400 (EDT) From: steve hovey To: Joe McGuckin cc: hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Help - Panic Attacks! In-Reply-To: <199605202133.OAA21060@ns.via.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Whenever I have these troubles its usually a bad simm. On Mon, 20 May 1996, Joe McGuckin wrote: > Our web machine (FreeBSD 2.1, 128Meg) panicked today - twice in a row. > > Can anyone shed some light on this? > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 04:42:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA19146 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 04:42:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA19141 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 04:42:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA00418; Tue, 21 May 1996 04:38:46 -0700 (PDT) To: Dmitry Kohmanyuk cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 May 1996 12:32:46 +0300." <199605210932.MAA05631@rock.lot.kiev.ua> Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 04:38:46 -0700 Message-ID: <416.832678726@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I tell you, that having a /stand saved me a hell lot of time when > putting bad memory chips in my server box trashed my /bin directory I think we should be careful to distinguish between "/stand, the directory" and "/stand, the concept" :-) As it currently, erm, stands I don't think /stand should survive. The question of how to make "emergency rescue directories" for those who like safety belts then becomes an entirely separate issue, and one I think better solved by something as simple as a package which whaps some carefully chosen rescue binaries in /stand (or whatever rescue path strikes peoples fancy). Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 04:42:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA19174 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 04:42:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA19167 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 04:42:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from allegro.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0uLppD-000QYiC; Tue, 21 May 96 13:42 MET DST From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA24242; Tue, 21 May 1996 13:27:49 +0200 Message-Id: <199605211127.NAA24242@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: Where is kgdb? To: jfesler@calweb.com (Jason Fesler) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 13:27:49 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960520211330.00747480@jpop.calweb.com> from "Jason Fesler" at May 20, 96 02:13:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jason Fesler writes: > > Does anyone know where kgdb went from FreeBSD-current? Or should I use the > RELEASE version? It's called gdb. Use it with the -k option. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 04:50:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA19540 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 04:50:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hda (ip80-max1-fitch.zipnet.net [199.232.245.80]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA19533 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 04:50:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda (8.6.11/8.6.9) id HAA19621; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:59:37 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199605211159.HAA19621@hda> Subject: Re: HSM for FreeBSD?, was Re: Who wants a DPT SCSI controller driver? To: ken@stox.pr.mcs.net (Kenneth P. Stox) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 07:59:36 -0400 (EDT) Cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, taob@io.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605210130.UAA01657@m4.stox.pr.mcs.net> from "Kenneth P. Stox" at May 20, 96 08:30:02 pm Reply-to: hdalog@zipnet.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > In a seizure of sanity, Wilko Bulte wrote: > > > Hmm. 3Tb? Then somebody should go and write a HSM application to control > > a tape robot.. > > > > Could do some testing on our 260+ cartridge DLT library (soon to be > > able to hold 260+ * 40Gb ;-) > > Funny you should mention this. I recently picked up an Exabyte 10i robot, and > have been pondering this very point. Is there anyone else in the FreeBSD > community who has any interest in HSM systems ? > (I'm at least pulling -scsi and -hardware out of this cc list) Anyone interested in a commercial binary-only HSM and data migration software please let me know. One of our clients makes them, and at least the pieces of it we've worked on are running on FreeBSD already. A FreeBSD port would be possible if it looked cost effective. This is "regular" commercial software with the usual usage restrictions, though the client binaries are redistributable. -- Peter Dufault Real-Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 06:47:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA25627 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 06:47:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nightmare.dreamchaser.org ([207.40.47.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA25618 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 06:47:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mofo (mofo.dreamchaser.org [206.230.42.91]) by nightmare.dreamchaser.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA02041 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:47:29 -0600 Message-ID: <31A1C967.5BFB@ics.com> Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 07:47:19 -0600 From: Gary Aitken Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b3 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4c) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: samba, cannot bind Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk When I try to run samba, I get the log message: 05/19/96 23:21:13 loaded services 05/19/96 23:21:13 becoming a daemon ===> bind failed on port 139 Closing connections 05/19/96 23:21:13 Server exit (normal exit) Anybody have any clues as to why? It's running as root, and /etc/services lists 139 as the default port, -- Gary Aitken garya@ics.com (business) garya@dreamchaser.org (personal) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 07:22:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA27412 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:22:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA27406 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA08698; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:22:15 -0600 Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 08:22:15 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605211422.IAA08698@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: John Capo Cc: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: DNS question In-Reply-To: <199605210614.CAA22689@irbs.irbs.com> References: <199605200307.VAA04583@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199605210614.CAA22689@irbs.irbs.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > gateway:/etc/namedb/new # host 206.127.76.97 > > Host not found, try again. > > > > I'll bet you have some log messages that look sort of like this: > > host: gethostby*.gethostanswer: asked for "131.75.182.199.in-addr.arpa", \ > got "131.128.75.182.199.in-addr.arpa" > > The libc resolver is broken for non-terminal in-addr lookups. Thanks for the patch. Is this brokeness in other systems besides FreeBSD, since I will be relying on the ability of *other* hosts to be able to resolve my addresses once we switch over. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 07:27:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA27945 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA27914 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:27:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.7.5/BSD4.4) id AAA11593 Wed, 22 May 1996 00:26:24 +1000 (EST) From: michael butler Message-Id: <199605211426.AAA11593@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: Netscape Proxy Server on FreeBSD To: mark@quickweb.com (Mark Mayo) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 00:26:23 +1000 (EST) Cc: angio@aros.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Mark Mayo" at May 21, 96 00:08:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mark Mayo writes: > Squids are setup with their 'parent' being a central HP/UX machie on the > pipe out of the U (the parent server has 2GB of cache space). The setup > works superbly, because each department usually is interested in the same > sort of sites, and sites that aren't in the local neighbor's disk are sent > to the main server.. all in all we estimate about 45% success on cache > hits. I have a similar experience .. putting my ISP hat on, I realised fairly quickly that, if a simple lack of CPU and disk bandwidth wasn't going to get me, then a limitation on the number of available file-descriptors would. Netscape is configured by default to make four concurrent requests. The cache (either Harvest or Squid) will inherit some to talk to a client and some more when it finds a place to get the requested information (whether on a peer, parent or the real origin). These can add up extremely quickly on a busy cache .. if you leave the default of maxusers at 10, we have 180 file descriptors .. divided by four .. you get the picture. The "trick" that I've used in this instance is to use a single DNS name to refer to multiple 'A' records, each pointing to a different "front-line" host. These peer with each other and parent from one central machine. Of course, if a peer (or parent) fails to respond within the mandated 2 second 'UDP ping time', a front-line cache will fall back to going direct and the user's request still gets serviced. The only problem is that some &^$* browsers cache the DNS information resulting in far worse load imbalances than you might otherwise hope for :-( michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 07:34:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA28452 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:34:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gaia.gol.com (gaia.gol.com [202.243.48.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA28440 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:34:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (joe@localhost) by gaia.gol.com (8.7.5/8.6.5) id XAA26112; Tue, 21 May 1996 23:34:09 +0900 (JST) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 23:34:09 +0900 (JST) From: Joe Kelly Subject: Classless in-addr.arpa delegation To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: joe@gol.com Message-Id: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I've just seen in todays digest that theres a soltion to Classless in-addr.arpa delegation (see below). I could *really* do with this info. I've tried searching the mailing list archive, to no avail. If its not too much trouble can some re-post the suggestions or Email them to me. Thanks in advance. Joe Kelly. >From: Nate Williams >Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 21:07:58 -0600 >Subject: DNS question >Thanks to everyone for showing me how to have control of our >sub-classed C network using the: Classless in-addr.arpa delegation ______________________________________________________________________ Global OnLine Japan. Dial-Up, Leased-Line, ISDN, Web Services & More. URL: Email Tel: +81-3-5330-9383, Fax: +81-3-5330-9320 ______________________________________________________________________ "To me clowns aren't funny, in fact they're kinda scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus and a clown killed my dad." - Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 07:49:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA29618 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:49:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA29613 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 07:49:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0uLsku-0003wQC; Tue, 21 May 96 07:49 PDT Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA06799; Tue, 21 May 1996 14:49:47 GMT To: chris@vader.org (Chris Dabrowski) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Crack problem with MD5 passwd file? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 May 1996 03:47:15 MST." <31A19F33.446B9B3D@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 14:49:45 +0000 Message-ID: <6796.832690185@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Chris, Your post got forwarded to me, please post this reply if it makes sense... > Is there any way of using Crack with the international version of FreeBSD? > When I try running it I get the following errors: > > Is the problem due to the international version using MD5 encryption whilst > the US one uses DES? If so are there any other programs that achieve the > same results? > You will need to teach crack about our passwords, the changes you need to make are: 1. they are longer. 2. You need to use the libcrypt.a version of crypt(), cracks optimised crypt() doesn't work. Poul-Henning > >From "out.pid": > join: Rejected /etc/master.passwd:paul:****PASSWORD REMOVED****:1006:1000::0: 0:Paul Civati,Surrey,Private,:/home/paul:/usr/local/bin/tcsh: does not have 8 f ields > > >From "out.hostname.pid": > pwc: May 19 18:53:00 Crack v4.1f: The Password Cracker, (c) Alec D.E. Muffett , 1992 > pwc: May 19 18:53:00 Version of crypt() being used internally is not compatib le with standard. > pwc: May 19 18:53:00 This could be due to byte ordering problems - see the co mments in Sources/conf.h > pwc: May 19 18:53:00 If there is another reason for this, edit the source to remove this assertion. > pwc: May 19 18:53:00 Terminating... > -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 08:09:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA00808 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:09:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from novell.com (sjf-ums.sjf.novell.com [130.57.10.171]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA00786; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from INET-SJF-Message_Server by fromGW with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:06:10 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain Message-ID: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 08:15:30 -0700 From: DARREND@novell.com (Darren Davis) To: jehamby@lightside.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... - Reply Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Don't forget that it is but a short hop from Solaris/x86 ELF binaries to UnixWare 2.x ELF binaries. UnixWare is going to be the future direction for SCO, so having the ability to run these binaries would be excellent! Besides, I have many of them I want to run. Darren R. Davis Senior Software Engineer Novell, Inc. >>> Jordan K. Hubbard 5/20 9:52pm >>> > Don't bet on it, Jordan! Sun promotes Solaris/SPARC much more heavily (as > rightly they should) than Solaris/x86 so there are about 10x as many Oh, I know that (said Catalyst catalog also makes that fact pretty obvious :-) but 10% of 2000 apps is still a lot better than the 100% coverage of 3-4 apps we have now. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 08:55:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA04504 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:55:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kilgour.nething.com (kilgour.nething.com [204.253.210.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA04495 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:55:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from randy.nething.com (randy.nething.com [204.253.210.83]) by kilgour.nething.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA12415; Tue, 21 May 1996 10:53:54 -0500 Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 10:53:54 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19960521105252.264755cc@nething.com> X-Sender: rberndt@nething.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Andrew N. Edmond" , hackers@freefall.freebsd.org From: Randy Berndt Subject: Cron Loves Me Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I am getting from my cron daemon (every FIVE minutes!), the following >message: > > From root@shaman.lycaeum.org Mon May 20 23:37:44 1996 > Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 23:35:00 -0600 (MDT) > From: Cron Daemon > To: root@shaman.lycaeum.org > Subject: Cron root /usr/libexec/atrun > > root: not found > >which, in the tradition of UNIX, is pretty vague. Speaking from PAINFUL personal experience: You have somehow gotten the 'atrun' line from the SYSTEM cron file (stored in /etc/crontab) inserted into roots PERSONAL cron file (by doing 'crontab -e' as root probably). The system file has an additional parameter after the 5th field, the user to run as. Each persons file only runs as themselves, so they don't need the user parameter. To modify SYSTEM tasks, just edit /etc/crontab. The systems sees the modification time change (I think that's the trigger), and reloads the data. Randy Berndt ---------------------------------- AOS/VS, FreeBSD, DOS: I'm caught in a maze of twisty little command interpreters, all different. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 09:05:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA05350 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 09:05:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irbs.irbs.com ([199.182.75.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA05338 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 09:05:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jc@localhost) by irbs.irbs.com (8.7.5/8.6.6) id MAA25347; Tue, 21 May 1996 12:04:02 -0400 (EDT) From: John Capo Message-Id: <199605211604.MAA25347@irbs.irbs.com> Subject: Re: Classless in-addr.arpa delegation To: joe@gaia.gol.com (Joe Kelly) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 12:04:02 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, joe@gol.com In-Reply-To: from Joe Kelly at "May 21, 96 11:34:09 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Joe Kelly writes: > > Hello, > > I've just seen in todays digest that theres a soltion to Classless > in-addr.arpa delegation (see below). > > I could *really* do with this info. I've tried searching the mailing > list archive, to no avail. If its not too much trouble can some re-post > the suggestions or Email them to me. Thanks in advance. > ftp://ds.internic.net/internet-drafts/draft-degroot-classless-inaddr-00.txt John Capo jc@irbs.com IRBS Engineering FreeBSD Servers and Workstations (954) 792-9551 Unix/Internet Consulting - ISP Solutions From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 10:22:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA11713 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 10:22:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA11708; Tue, 21 May 1996 10:22:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uLv8J-0004KBC; Tue, 21 May 96 10:22 PDT Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 10:22:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: Terry Lambert cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... In-Reply-To: <199605210521.WAA29987@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 May 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > Which LWP? The SunOS 4.x LWP, which is a user space library that > uses aioread/aiowrite/aiowait/aiocancel, or the kernel threads in > Solaris, also called LWP's? > > "There are no SunOS 4.x LWP's, there are only Solaris LWP's!" > "We have *always* been at war with the East!" > "There is no Dana, only Zuul!" > > The SunOS LWP's are pretty easy. > > The Solaris LWP's are a bit harder. They require kernel preemption and > multithreading. I suspect it is the latter, as /usr/openwin/bin/ttsession is linked to libthread.so.1. BTW, since most Openwindows Deskset apps use ToolTalk to varying degrees (as does CDE), they will have problems in its absence. ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 10:27:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA12056 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 10:27:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA12050; Tue, 21 May 1996 10:27:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA01411; Tue, 21 May 1996 10:22:17 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605211722.KAA01411@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... To: davem@caip.rutgers.edu (David S. Miller) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 10:22:17 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jehamby@lightside.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605210823.EAA07997@huahaga.rutgers.edu> from "David S. Miller" at May 21, 96 04:23:57 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The SunOS LWP's are pretty easy. > > Actually SunOS does do lwp scheduling where it checks for AST's etc. > although I don't know how relevant that is to whats being discussed. Yes. It uses aioread/aiowrite/aiowait/aiocancel; these are closer to an event flag cluster than AST's. > Furthermore, the way Solaris does threads in the kernel has been > proven to be a lose (pre-emption, a billion mutexes in the kernel, > another thousand read writer locks) and expect the industry to move in > "another" direction. Computer science has proven that current smp > technology (read as: what SVR4.2MP based kernels do right now) cannot > scale past 32 cpu's without an exponential loss in performance. This is an artifact of their VM implementation, and the number is generally acknowledged to be 8 processors. It's possible to get a modified NUMA for an SMP environment using per processor page allocation pools. You're free to put SLAB allocators on top of those pages. This means that the allocation mutex need only be held when the per processor page pool is refilled/released to the general page pool. Using a hierarchical lock manager and computation of transitive closure over the lock hierarchy (treating it as a directed graph), coupled with intention mode locking, there should be a significant decrease in bus overhead. I *don't* think you'd want a non-symmetric implementation. It should be noted that multithreading UFS in SVR4 (UnixWare) resulted in a 160% performance improvement -- even after the performance loss for using mutexes for locking was subtracted out. > Clustering is the answer and can scale to more CPU's than you can > count in an unsigned char. ;-) So can the scheme described above. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 10:48:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA13288 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 10:48:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA13281; Tue, 21 May 1996 10:48:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uLvXK-0004JrC; Tue, 21 May 96 10:47 PDT Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 10:47:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: Darren Davis cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... - Reply In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 May 1996, Darren Davis wrote: > Don't forget that it is but a short hop from Solaris/x86 ELF binaries to > UnixWare 2.x ELF binaries. UnixWare is going to be the future direction > for SCO, so having the ability to run these binaries would be excellent! > Besides, I have many of them I want to run. > > Darren R. Davis > Senior Software Engineer > Novell, Inc. One problem with all this, before everyone gets too excited! :-) Unlike SCO or BSDI, where many programs are statically linked, nearly all SVR4 commercial software uses multiple shared libraries. This means that in the beginning, you will need to buy a copy of Solaris/x86 and/or UnixWare to get the shared libraries you need. This shouldn't be a problem for someone who works at Novell :-) and Solaris/x86 is available at substantial educational discount (ask your college bookstore!). Hopefully, in the not-too-distant future, we will be able to map the SVR4 API directly to our own libc with stub shared libs, and eliminate the requirement for actual SVR4 libraries, but not now. At any rate, I'm glad to see there is big interest in getting SVR4 emulation added to FreeBSD, and it's fortunate that there is active maintainance of NetBSD's SVR4 code that we will be stealing, er, using.. :-) ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 11:07:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA14257 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 11:07:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA14235 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 11:07:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from campa.panke.de (anonymous235.ppp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.235]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA29442; Tue, 21 May 1996 20:02:55 +0200 Received: (from wosch@localhost) by campa.panke.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA04502; Tue, 21 May 1996 20:01:42 +0200 Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 20:01:42 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider Message-Id: <199605211801.UAA04502@campa.panke.de> To: Bruce Evans CC: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: MLINKS (Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP...) In-Reply-To: <199605210808.SAA28887@godzilla.zeta.org.au> References: <199605210808.SAA28887@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Reply-to: Wolfram Schneider MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans writes: >about 8ms to exec a small dynamically linked binary and about 2ms to >exec a small statically linked binary. /bin/sh isn't execed all that >much (because make is smart enough to exec things directly). However, >expr and test are execed a lot for the stupid shell scripts for handling >MLINKS. It takes about 150 seconds longer than it should to create all >the links for libraries alone. About 50 seconds of this is for unnecessary >exec overhead and the rest is because too many processes are execed and >sync metadata updates are too slow. The following patch reduce the time for `cd /usr/src; make maninstall' from 1120.89 real 514.68 user 366.11 sys to 985.58 real 500.02 user 287.07 sys a dirty perl script need 936.98 real 516.46 user 223.40 sys and I guess a C-program would need ~885 sec. Wolfram --- bsd.man.mk Wed Apr 10 01:10:19 1996 +++ ../mk3/bsd.man.mk Tue May 21 15:55:49 1996 @@ -61,20 +61,18 @@ .endfor .if defined(MLINKS) && !empty(MLINKS) - @set ${MLINKS}; \ - while test $$# -ge 2; do \ - name=$$1; \ - shift; \ - sect=`expr $$name : '.*\.\([^.]*\)'`; \ - dir=${DESTDIR}${MANDIR}$$sect; \ - l=$${dir}${MANSUBDIR}/$$name; \ - name=$$1; \ - shift; \ - sect=`expr $$name : '.*\.\([^.]*\)'`; \ - dir=${DESTDIR}${MANDIR}$$sect; \ - t=$${dir}${MANSUBDIR}/$$name; \ + @set `echo ${MLINKS} " " | sed 's/\.\([^.]*\) /.\1 \1 /g'`; \ + while : ; do \ + case $$# in \ + 0) break;; \ + [123]) echo "warn: empty MLINK: $$1 $$2 $$3"; break;; \ + esac; \ + name=$$1; shift; sect=$$1; shift; \ + l=${DESTDIR}${MANDIR}$${sect}${MANSUBDIR}/$$name; \ + name=$$1; shift; sect=$$1; shift; \ + t=${DESTDIR}${MANDIR}$${sect}${MANSUBDIR}/$$name; \ ${ECHO} $${t}${ZEXT} -\> $${l}${ZEXT}; \ rm -f $${t} $${t}${ZEXTENSION}; \ ln $${l}${ZEXT} $${t}${ZEXT}; \ - done; true + done .endif From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 11:08:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA14373 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 11:08:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from virginia.edu (mars.itc.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA14368 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 11:08:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from archive.cs.virginia.edu by mail.virginia.edu id aa10521; 21 May 96 14:08 EDT Received: from stretch.cs.Virginia.edu (atf3r@stretch-fo.cs.Virginia.EDU [128.143.136.14]) by archive.cs.Virginia.EDU (8.7.1/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA07480; Tue, 21 May 1996 14:08:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by stretch.cs.Virginia.edu (4.1/SMI-2.0) id AA29818; Tue, 21 May 96 14:08:02 EDT Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 14:08:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Adrian T. Filipi-Martin" Reply-To: adrian@virginia.edu To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Dmitry Kohmanyuk , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... In-Reply-To: <416.832678726@time.cdrom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 May 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I tell you, that having a /stand saved me a hell lot of time when > > putting bad memory chips in my server box trashed my /bin directory > > I think we should be careful to distinguish between "/stand, the > directory" and "/stand, the concept" :-) > > As it currently, erm, stands I don't think /stand should survive. The > question of how to make "emergency rescue directories" for those who > like safety belts then becomes an entirely separate issue, and one I > think better solved by something as simple as a package which whaps > some carefully chosen rescue binaries in /stand (or whatever rescue > path strikes peoples fancy). > > Jordan /stand or whatever replaces it should be installed by default. It's only a 1.5M space investment. If it's an optional package, it may be too late to install it, when you realise you need it. If you don't want it, you should have to actively get rid of it. Adrian adrian@virginia.edu ---->>>>| Support your local programmer, System Administrator --->>>| STOP Software Patent Abuses NOW! NVL, NIIMS and Telemedicine Labs -->>| For an application and information Member: League for Programming Freedom ->| see: http://www.lpf.org/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 11:09:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA14414 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 11:09:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caipfs.rutgers.edu (root@caipfs.rutgers.edu [128.6.91.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA14409; Tue, 21 May 1996 11:08:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huahaga.rutgers.edu (huahaga.rutgers.edu [128.6.155.53]) by caipfs.rutgers.edu (8.6.9+bestmx+oldruq+newsunq+grosshack/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA05548; Tue, 21 May 1996 14:08:42 -0400 Received: (davem@localhost) by huahaga.rutgers.edu (8.6.9+bestmx+oldruq+newsunq+grosshack/8.6.9) id OAA12006; Tue, 21 May 1996 14:08:41 -0400 Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 14:08:41 -0400 Message-Id: <199605211808.OAA12006@huahaga.rutgers.edu> From: "David S. Miller" To: terry@lambert.org CC: terry@lambert.org, jehamby@lightside.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199605211722.KAA01411@phaeton.artisoft.com> (message from Terry Lambert on Tue, 21 May 1996 10:22:17 -0700 (MST)) Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk From: Terry Lambert Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 10:22:17 -0700 (MST) > Actually SunOS does do lwp scheduling where it checks for AST's > etc. although I don't know how relevant that is to whats being > discussed. Yes. It uses aioread/aiowrite/aiowait/aiocancel; these are closer to an event flag cluster than AST's. Agreed. It's possible to get a modified NUMA for an SMP environment using per processor page allocation pools. I agree. I once talked with Larry McVoy and we were discussing how we thought that a machine with N cpus and N high speed network interfaces (read as: SuperHippi or faster) should be able to keep the pipes of all interfaces full all the time with no contention whatsoever. The technique we came up with is similar to what you suggest. Basically you pre-allocate a pool of skiipy-bufs/mbufs per interface, no locking necessary to allocate/free things in the pool to run things throught the stack as packets come in and out. If an interface starves, and this is precisely the thing we want to keep from happening, it grabs the global allocation lock, acquires what it needs and since it's eating cycles anyways it looks at all the pools (reading state for the purposes of this heuristic requires no locking) for the interfaces and feed the queues which look like they could approach starvation. I *don't* think you'd want a non-symmetric implementation. This is what I get for not explaining how the implementation I mentioned functions. It is symmetric. Here is the basic idea: 1) Truly scaling in all areas to >4 cpus is difficult if not a complex task. However, medium graining to 4 cpus tops is "not too bad". This 4 cpu grouping is the cluster, and all activities running on that cluster run in a truly symmetric fashion. A somewhat stripped down instance of the kernel runs on each of these cpu clusters. The cluster has the capability to run jobs, and communicate in a fairly simplistic manner with other clusters. Of note is the ability to offload jobs or groups of jobs to another cluster if necessary and/or desirable. 2) Load state is maintained on a per-cluster basis. 3) Operations like fork() scan the clusters to find the cluster with the lowest aggregate load. This cluster is where to job is "communicated to". 4) As jobs run and the per cluster loads go up and down the clusters "push out" or "pull in" jobs so that they operate more efficiently and contention is decreased. You get as symmetric as is reasonable, but no further. The design can be modified to either: 1) have one master "cluster maintainer" kernel thing which does all the work of periodically scanning the loads of all the clusters and moves things around, this method offloads that processing from the clusters and they just run what they have, the only question left is who does the arbitration during things like "fork()" etc. 2) Just put the cluster load processing in the per-cluster kernel. In this particular implementation the hardware is a shared memory machine with all N processors accesing that same memory. It doesn't stop here however. But, it is the example that shows a problem that can be solved by the methodology described. I personally belive that the above described scheme can scale to a shared memory machine with more processors than you can count in an unsigned char, without any problems whatsoever. If your design is clean and done The Right Way(tm), you can take this architecture to other scenerios and setups. Your "clusters" could be uniprocessor workstations on a high speed FDDI ring, the FDDI ring acts as the cluster communications mechanism and the workstations are what is clustered for the jobs, they act and react within themselves. This "cluster" could also be a bunch of UNIX PC boxes on an everyday ethernet. The final example serves not only as a nice proof of concept, it also serves as a method by which "others can play". By this I mean that someone with a bunch of UNIX PC's and cheap ethernet to play with can actively work on such a project and are not left out in the dark because they do not possess a "645 processor SMP machine" ;-) Other directions are moving more than just the jobs, move socket objects around, move vnodes around, move session groups around, expand the pid space. Anything can be done at this point. See? A clean solution to the SMP scaling problem is so clean that it creates a direct pathway to a possible efficient distributed system implementation. It should be noted that multithreading UFS in SVR4 (UnixWare) resulted in a 160% performance improvement -- even after the performance loss for using mutexes for locking was subtracted out. > Clustering is the answer and can scale to more CPU's than you can > count in an unsigned char. ;-) So can the scheme described above. Here is what I am driving at. Ok, break up the page pools so that some locking is avoided. Well, now the filesystem is the bottleneck, so come up with a similar scheme of some sort so you don't grab so many locks and now this is faster. Well, not the FOO is the bottleneck, lets hack that as well.... You see there will always be something else, you cannot eliminate all the contention problems (ever think about what would be involved in implementing a low contention SMP locking scheme for the entire berkeley networking stack?). You've dug yourself into a hole and are trying now to dig yourself out, you may get partway out but you must stay in the hole inevitably. With clustering we are eliminating the hole altogether. There are many people who have been thinking constantly about SMP for many years, and what I present is basically what they have agreed is the most beneficial direction to move in. (careful readers will notice that this is also a move away from kernel bloat as well...) Why get performance with added complexity and maintanence hassle when you can get more performance with less complexity ;-) I'm sure many people are interested in this topic, and much work has started and is continuing on such work in the free operating system world. I invite those interested to join in the discussions taking place now in the MultiComputer project which has recently begun in the Linux camp (no this is not a shameless Linux plug, I would be overly thrilled to see a FreeBSD project of the same vein and a high level of communication between both groups). It is early still for the project, and it is at this point where I think the most interesting discussion occurs because we can talk about architecture instead of how we fucked up and need to fix things. The mailing list is linux-mc@samba.anu.edu.au and it is a ListServ based mailing list. Another interesting place for similar material can be found at the AP+ CAP project home page: http://cap.anu.edu.au/cap/projects/linux/ (the CAP AP+ project is work on a Sparc based parallel computer made by Fujitsu running SparcLinux, they have real parallel programs running and have done experiments with things like Gang Scheduling, handling asynchronous faults from within interrupt context, etc.) Later, David S. Miller davem@caip.rutgers.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 11:10:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA14595 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 11:10:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from europa.com (root@thetics.europa.com [199.2.194.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA14581 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 11:10:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by europa.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.13) id ; Tue, 21 May 96 11:10 PDT Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 11:10:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Steven Frank To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Socket library question Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a very technical question about BSD socket library code, and someone suggested this mailing list as a resource. I have ported the BSD socket library to another OS, and added an integrated PPP interface and modem dialer. The ultimate goal is a Trumpet WinSock-ish type of application. It all seems to be working well except for one thing. When a client application calls recv(), and the recv() cannot be fulfilled immediately, the kernel calls sbwait() which in turn calls tsleep(). Somehow the appropriate wakeup is not happening and it stays in tsleep() indefinitely. If the stack never reaches that sbwait() condition, it works very well. I realize this question is kind of a long shot, but does anyone know what might be going on? Other tsleeps() in the code get woken up correctly. Could there be a problem in my emulation of the splx() calls? Perhaps the kernel is fine, and the problem stems from the fact that the PPP interface came from a different flavor of BSD than the kernel? If you have any ideas at all, please contact me at stevenf@europa.com. I would be _extremely_ grateful. Even if you don't know the precise problem you might say something that makes the light bulb go on for me... Thanks! From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 11:56:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA17979 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 11:56:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns2.harborcom.net (root@ns2.harborcom.net [206.158.4.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA17973 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 11:56:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunghole.harborcom.net (dunn.harborcom.net [206.158.4.245]) by ns2.harborcom.net (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA04378; Tue, 21 May 1996 14:56:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605211856.OAA04378@ns2.harborcom.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Bradley Dunn" Organization: Harbor Communications To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 14:53:40 -0500 Subject: Re: I broke libgcc.a :( Reply-to: dunn@harborcom.net Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.31) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I don't have a tape for that system. It is pretty much a test box, so if there are no other options I guess a reinstall never hurt anyone. How does this actually work, though? How is the magic number for libgcc.a calculated? On 21 May 96 at 7:39, J Wunsch wrote: > As Bradley Dunn wrote: > > > "ld.so: bad magic number in /usr/lib/libgcc.a" > > > Can anyone offer a > > suggestion? BTW, a make clean, make world dies the first time cc > > is run. Thanks! > > Backup your system from tape. > > Are you sure it's libgcc.a, or perhaps libgcc.so.*? This one has > gone in recent systems, but used to be there for quite some time. Bradley Dunn HarborCom This space for rent From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 12:15:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA20081 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 12:15:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA20042; Tue, 21 May 1996 12:15:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA18535; Tue, 21 May 1996 21:14:45 +0200 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA25762 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Tue, 21 May 1996 21:14:08 +0200 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA08953 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Tue, 21 May 1996 21:08:31 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA00729; Tue, 21 May 1996 20:09:47 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199605211809.UAA00729@yedi.iaf.nl> X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands Subject: Re: HSM for FreeBSD?, was Re: Who wants a DPT SCSI controller driver? To: ken@stox.pr.mcs.net (Kenneth P. Stox) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 20:09:47 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: taob@io.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605210130.UAA01657@m4.stox.pr.mcs.net> from "Kenneth P. Stox" at May 20, 96 08:30:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In a seizure of sanity, Wilko Bulte wrote: ^ ^----- exactly ;-) > > Hmm. 3Tb? Then somebody should go and write a HSM application to control > > a tape robot.. > > > > Could do some testing on our 260+ cartridge DLT library (soon to be > > able to hold 260+ * 40Gb ;-) > > Funny you should mention this. I recently picked up an Exabyte 10i robot, and > have been pondering this very point. Is there anyone else in the FreeBSD > community who has any interest in HSM systems ? > Ken Stox ICBMnet: 41:48:8N 88:3:26W Back to the 3Tb: Today I built a stripe set of 7*4.3Gb. I have this nice little raidbox sitting in my lab at work and wanted to give it a try with a big filesystem. So, I hooked it up to a spare 486/33 with a Adaptec 1740. Used 2.1R No luck there, it looks like the ahb driver does not 'see' it on boot. Second attempt, hooked it up to a Adaptec 1542B that also serves the boot disk. Found it! OK, disklabel and newfs. 1 hour and 20 minutes later I had this 28+ Gb filesystem... Only problem sofar: 'df' reports a negative 'avail' number. Percentage is also -0% (noi typo). I'll try to find out why this happens. Any known problems with disks this big? When it comes to big 'disks' I can currently make them up to 14*4.3Gbyte in size... (Need to steal most of the 4.3Gb disks from my colleagues but what the h*k) Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 12:15:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA20159 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 12:15:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA20102; Tue, 21 May 1996 12:15:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA18537; Tue, 21 May 1996 21:14:56 +0200 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA25789 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Tue, 21 May 1996 21:14:25 +0200 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA08955 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Tue, 21 May 1996 21:08:34 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA00768; Tue, 21 May 1996 20:11:45 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199605211811.UAA00768@yedi.iaf.nl> X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands Subject: Re: Who wants a DPT SCSI controller driver? To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 20:11:45 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: taob@io.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605202143.OAA28562@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at May 20, 96 02:43:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > One of the guys I work with here worked on the Lachman HSM code > (tape robots, the whole 9 yards). > > I'm afraid you probably couldn't pay him enough to do it again. 8-). > > > Could do some testing on our 260+ cartridge DLT library (soon to be > > able to hold 260+ * 40Gb ;-) > > Looks like you're the guy, since you have the hardware to test with. 8-). OHHHH NOOOOO.. > > Terry Lambert Wilko (who is always misunderstood when joking ;-) _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 13:14:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA25171 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 13:14:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA25161 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 13:14:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id WAA10554 ; Tue, 21 May 1996 22:14:30 +0200 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id WAA02319 ; Tue, 21 May 1996 22:14:29 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.5/keltia-uucp-2.7) id VAA08425; Tue, 21 May 1996 21:08:41 +0200 (MET DST) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199605211908.VAA08425@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: Crack problem with MD5 passwd file? To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 21:08:41 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: chris@vader.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <6796.832690185@critter.tfs.com> from Poul-Henning Kamp at "May 21, 96 02:49:45 pm" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1983 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL16 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Poul-Henning Kamp said: > Your post got forwarded to me, please post this reply if it makes sense... I answered the question on Usenet too. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #2: Fri May 10 21:09:14 MET DST 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 13:14:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA25202 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 13:14:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA25156; Tue, 21 May 1996 13:14:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id WAA10550 ; Tue, 21 May 1996 22:14:29 +0200 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id WAA02316 ; Tue, 21 May 1996 22:14:28 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.5/keltia-uucp-2.7) id VAA08415; Tue, 21 May 1996 21:03:02 +0200 (MET DST) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199605211903.VAA08415@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: CRON: it loves me To: edmond@UWYO.EDU (Andrew N. Edmond) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 21:03:01 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: questions@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Andrew N. Edmond" at "May 20, 96 11:41:52 pm" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1983 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL16 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Andrew N. Edmond said: > Subject: Cron root /usr/libexec/atrun > > root: not found > > which, in the tradition of UNIX, is pretty vague. History preceding this > symptom: You have either a /etc/crontab-like file (with the extra user name) in /var/cron/crontabs/root or you put an extra parameter on the atrun line which means that the user name is taken as a command. Look into /var/cron/crontabs. If you have a file named root, "rm" it. The root crontab is only in /etc/crontab. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #2: Fri May 10 21:09:14 MET DST 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 13:21:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA25875 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 13:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA25862 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 13:21:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA02714; Tue, 21 May 1996 13:20:58 -0700 (PDT) To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Wilson Liaw , tgiannelli@applix.com Subject: Anyone interested in the following? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 May 1996 15:01:25 EDT." <199605201901.PAA09980@user2.infinet.com> Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 13:20:51 -0700 Message-ID: <2711.832710051@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Some of you may have seen the announcement for Applixware go by recently, a joint project between Applix and Red Hat Software to bring a full-featured desktop suite to Linux. To quote briefly from the announcement below: > Applix and Red Hat Software Announce Applixware for Red Hat Linux > ================================================================= > > Most popular and complete office suite for UNIX to be available for Linux. > > Westboro, MA, - Applix Inc. (NASDAQ: APLX) and Red Hat Software, Inc. > announced today the availability of Applix's Applixware(TM) suite of > office automation products for the Red Hat(TM) Linux operating system. > Under the terms of an agreement between Red Hat Software and Applix, > Red Hat Software will bundle Applixware version 4.2 with the > commercially available release 3.0.3 of Red Hat Linux. Also under the > terms of the this agreement Red Hat Software will distribute and > support the combined products. > > "We recognized a need in the Linux marketplace for high-performance > office automation tools" said Tony Giannelli, vice-president of > business development and marketing Applix Inc. "After an extensive > review, we chose Red Hat Software because we felt that Red Hat > provides the most complete platform for running Applixware on Linux." > > Applixware is the most popular and complete office automation suite > for UNIX(r) systems. Applixware for Red Hat Linux features fully > integrated graphical: > > o. spreadsheet, > o. word processing, > o. graphics, > o. presentation, > o. electronic mail, and > o. HTML authoring software. > > Applixware can be used to build integrated solutions on UNIX and now > Linux systems. The advanced Applix Builder rapid application > development environment is also included in the agreement. > > Applixware for Red Hat Linux will be available directly from Red Hat > Software and Linux resellers, early this summer. The suggested retail > price is $495.00 per user. Now, "what does all this have to do with me?" you may ask. Well, I've talked with Tony Giannelli about bring the Applix suite (see http://www.applix.com) to FreeBSD and he naturally would like to see some numbers for the potential size of the FreeBSD market before deciding whether or not to make the investment of porting, testing and marketing their products there. That's where you come in. If you'd like to see the Applixware desktop available for FreeBSD and would buy a copy were it available (I assume that pricing would be similar to that of the Red Hat product), please send mail to: Tony Giannelli And let him know. He'll tally up the requests and try to decide whether or not a strong market case for a FreeBSD product can be made at this time. I've heard many of you crying out for spreadsheets, word processors and the like for FreeBSD for several years now, well, here's your chance to try and do something about it! If we don't take the time to make our desires known then ISVs certainly aren't going to take time to port their software to our operating system and so, if you've a genuine interest in any of the above, please take a moment to let Tony know! Thanks.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 13:25:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA26296 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 13:25:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA26288 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 13:25:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by onyx.nervosa.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA03867; Tue, 21 May 1996 13:24:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 13:24:51 -0700 (PDT) From: "Chris J. Layne" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "David A. Hauan" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: custom In-Reply-To: <6279.832650948@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 May 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > fixed in more recent -currents. I see no reason you should not be > able to invoke it and use it to extract the src distribution. The > individual steps are quite straight-forward (and well documented). > Jordan Speaking of sysinstall, it was out to get me the other day :-) You said that when you bring the drives into the label editor, and adjust their mount points, the individual partitions are mounted. Well yes that happenes, I verified it by running mount from the holographic shell on ttyv3. My 2.2-960501-SNAP dir exists on /dev/wd1s1e and was mounted as /usr/home. For the life of me, after setting the media type to ufs and the dir to /mnt/usr/home, /mnt/usr/home/2.2-960501-SNAP, /usr/home, /usr/home/2.2-960501-SNAP, all at different times of course, sysinstall could not find it's required files. I had high debugging output on, and I would see bin/bin.aa, failed, etc. Now if the drive is mounted as /mnt/usr/home, than shouldn't a request for (when my media is ufs and dir /mnt/usr/home/2.2-960501-SNAP) bin/bin.aa work? I promise I wasn't smoking anything while doing this, I tried everything, even the upgrade option, and I had to settle with cat /mnt/usr/home/2.2-960501-SNAP/bin/bin.?? | gzip -cd | cpio -idmv :( While it worked, it was a pain in the ass. == Chris Layne ======================================== Nervosa Computing == == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 13:29:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA26707 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 13:29:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gargoyle.bazzle.com ([206.103.246.190]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA26694 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 13:29:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (ejc@localhost) by gargoyle.bazzle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA16454; Tue, 21 May 1996 16:31:09 GMT Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 16:31:09 +0000 () From: "Eric J. Chet" To: John Capo cc: Nate Williams , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DNS question In-Reply-To: <199605210614.CAA22689@irbs.irbs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Nate Williams writes: > > > > Name: ns.mt.sri.com > > Address: 206.127.76.97 > > Aliases: 97.76.127.206.in-addr.arpa > > > > > gateway:/etc/namedb/new # host 206.127.76.97 > > Host not found, try again. > > > > I'll bet you have some log messages that look sort of like this: > > host: gethostby*.gethostanswer: asked for "131.75.182.199.in-addr.arpa", \ > got "131.128.75.182.199.in-addr.arpa" > > The libc resolver is broken for non-terminal in-addr lookups. > Hello Will this patch be commited to -current? Peace, Eric J. Chet - ejc@bazzle.com - FreeBSD Lucent Technologies, Bell Labs Innovations - ejc@nasvr1.cb.att.com Columbus, Ohio 43213 RM 1E222 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 13:36:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA27465 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 13:36:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA27459 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 13:36:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA09903; Tue, 21 May 1996 14:36:40 -0600 Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 14:36:40 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605212036.OAA09903@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Eric J. Chet" Cc: John Capo , Nate Williams , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DNS question In-Reply-To: References: <199605210614.CAA22689@irbs.irbs.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The libc resolver is broken for non-terminal in-addr lookups. [ Patch deleted ] > Will this patch be commited to -current? I'm away from my box all this week, but I'll test it and apply it to both -stable and -current next week if someone doesn't beat me to it or jump up with any valed reason to *not* do it. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 14:02:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA29452 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 14:02:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA29447 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 14:02:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA02985; Tue, 21 May 1996 14:02:04 -0700 (PDT) To: "Chris J. Layne" cc: "David A. Hauan" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: custom In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 May 1996 13:24:51 PDT." Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 14:02:04 -0700 Message-ID: <2983.832712524@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > /usr/home. For the life of me, after setting the media type to ufs and > the dir to /mnt/usr/home, /mnt/usr/home/2.2-960501-SNAP, /usr/home, > /usr/home/2.2-960501-SNAP, all at different times of course, sysinstall > could not find it's required files. I had high debugging output on, and I UFS installation is probably broken, considering that I didn't even test it for this snapshot. Now that you're the first person to actually mention it, I'll go look at it. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 14:14:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA00173 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 14:14:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA00167 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 14:14:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA02038; Tue, 21 May 1996 14:09:38 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605212109.OAA02038@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Glitch in install procedure. To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 14:09:38 -0700 (MST) Cc: dutchman@spase.nl, terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605210547.PAA23269@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at May 21, 96 03:47:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >That's because it couldn't ask BIOS to tell it what was good. > > Actually, it's because it couldn't ask ufs for where the blocks in /kernel > are. It knows what the BIOS geometry is supposed to be since it just > created a partition table that usually won't work unless you told it the > BIOS geometry. It can ask. The BIOS won't tell it because the BIOS will stop at 1024 cylinders because the BIOS doesn't use sector addressing like it should. > >Silly FreeBSD, trusted you to know what you were doing. 8-). > > It's a feature that you can write /kernel on a file system whose partition > has BIOS cylinders >= 1024. Silly BSD allows writing to such file systems > :-). (Except possibly at install time, there is nothing special about > /kernel.). There's no problem there. The bug there is the BIOS boot code, the *limitied* second stage boo blocks, and the *limited* INT 13 interface the second stage boot blocks use (just like the BIOS boot blocks, just like the BIOS POST). It's a BIOS limitation, not a BSD limitation; it's not very surprising (to me anyway) that BSD doesn't see the limit on the install. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 14:24:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA00843 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 14:24:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA00836 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 14:24:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA02080; Tue, 21 May 1996 14:20:05 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605212120.OAA02080@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Glitch in install procedure. To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 14:20:05 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, dutchman@spase.nl, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605211017.MAA23956@allegro.lemis.de> from "Greg Lehey" at May 21, 96 12:17:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> I just installed FreeBSD as a secondary OS on a machine. I dumped it into the > >> upper 300 Mb of a 810 Mb disk. Funny thing is that neither the installation > >> procedure, nor booteasy issued a warning that it would not be possible to > >> actually boot from the partition, as it is beyond the reach of the BIOS. > > > > That's because it couldn't ask BIOS to tell it what was good. > > No, but it could issue a warning. Kees didn't ask for it to refuse to > install. Question: in order to warn you if absolute sector X is past cylinder 1024, it needs to: X%(H*S) Remainder is H/S value X/(H*S) Integer value is cylinder So if it doesn't know the C/H/S geometry (sure, we can guess that the BIOS geometry is the Adpatec geometry, but we need to be prepared when it isn't), how can we say "cylinder past 1024"? BSD drivers operate on absolute sectors (and *only* on absolute sectors). BIOS drivers operate on C/H/S values, thet the INT 13 interface translates into controller C/H/S values -- or absolute sectors. The controller that uses controller C/H/S values translates them into -- absolute sectors. The only way to know the BIOS C/H/S values for sure is to ask the BIOS. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 14:50:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA02305 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 14:50:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nightmare.dreamchaser.org ([207.40.47.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA02300 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 14:50:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mofo (mofo.dreamchaser.org [206.230.42.91]) by nightmare.dreamchaser.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA03978; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:50:37 -0600 Message-ID: <31A23AA7.597D@ics.com> Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 15:50:31 -0600 From: Gary Aitken Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b3 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4c) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: hackers@freebsd.org, Wilson Liaw , tgiannelli@applix.com Subject: Re: Anyone interested in the following? References: <2711.832710051@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Applixware is the most popular and complete office automation suite > > for UNIX(r) systems. Applixware for Red Hat Linux features fully > > integrated graphical: > > > > o. spreadsheet, > > o. word processing, > > o. graphics, > > o. presentation, > > o. electronic mail, and > > o. HTML authoring software. Can anyone familiar with these products make some comments about how they compare with others, e.g.: spreadsheets: MS Excel Word Processing: MS Word Framemaker Graphics: I don't know what they mean by this, unless it's equivalent to drawing capabilities in word / frame Presentation: MS Powerpoint email: Netscape 3.0 HTML Authoring: Framemaker Other? -- Gary Aitken garya@ics.com (business) garya@dreamchaser.org (personal) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 15:06:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA03209 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:06:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA03204 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:05:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from linus.demon.co.uk (linus.demon.co.uk [158.152.10.220]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id PAA19897 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:04:03 -0700 Received: (from mark@localhost) by linus.demon.co.uk (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA03974; Tue, 21 May 1996 22:48:45 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199605212148.WAA03974@linus.demon.co.uk> From: mark@linus.demon.co.uk (Mark Valentine) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 22:48:44 +0100 In-Reply-To: J Wunsch's message of May 17, 3:32pm X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: J Wunsch , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: can't mount "gold" CDs written by Yamaha recorder Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From: J Wunsch > Date: Fri 17 May, 1996 > Subject: Re: can't mount "gold" CDs written by Yamaha recorder > Create an iso9660 image using mkisofs on your FreeBSD box, transfer it > to the burner machine, and burn this one. Then you know who's the > culprit. When we finally got the silly proprietary software just to burn the image and not to try fancy random stuff of its own (one more gold coffee mat :-), this worked a treat! (Tested on Solaris/FreeBSD/Linux/Windows/MacOS...) Since we bought the hardware/software as a bundle, we'll probably just return the lot and buy the HP recorder and a box to run -current... Cheers, Mark. -- Mark Valentine at Home From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 15:11:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA03564 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:11:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uruk.org (uruk.org [198.145.95.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA03557 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:11:15 -0700 (PDT) From: erich@uruk.org Received: from loopback (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by uruk.org (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA14120; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:11:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605212211.PAA14120@uruk.org> X-Authentication-Warning: uruk.org: Host loopback [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: dutchman@spase.nl, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Glitch in install procedure. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 May 1996 14:20:05 PDT." <199605212120.OAA02080@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 15:11:22 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've done a LOT of work with bootloaders recently (I'm writing a generic replacement for the *BSD, Linux, and Mach bootloaders). Admittedly, I've come into this discussion late, but... Terry Lambert writes: > > >> I just installed FreeBSD as a secondary OS on a machine. I dumped it > > >> into the upper 300 Mb of a 810 Mb disk. Funny thing is that neither > > >> the installation procedure, nor booteasy issued a warning that it > > >> would not be possible to actually boot from the partition, as it is > > >> beyond the reach of the BIOS. > > > > > > That's because it couldn't ask BIOS to tell it what was good. > > > > No, but it could issue a warning. Kees didn't ask for it to refuse to > > install. > > > Question: in order to warn you if absolute sector X is past cylinder > 1024, it needs to: > > X%(H*S) Remainder is H/S value > X/(H*S) Integer value is cylinder > > > So if it doesn't know the C/H/S geometry (sure, we can guess that > the BIOS geometry is the Adpatec geometry, but we need to be > prepared when it isn't), how can we say "cylinder past 1024"? > > BSD drivers operate on absolute sectors (and *only* on absolute > sectors). BIOS drivers operate on C/H/S values, thet the INT 13 > interface translates into controller C/H/S values -- or absolute > sectors. The controller that uses controller C/H/S values translates > them into -- absolute sectors. > > The only way to know the BIOS C/H/S values for sure is to ask the > BIOS. Maybe I'm missing something, but: 1) FreeBSD already gets the BIOS geometry of hard disks from it's normal bootloader. 2) Can't you just make a "BIOS query" hunk of patch code, copy it down into the first 1MB of RAM, and run it to produce your BIOS geometry ? BTW: I'm looking for ways to safely add LBA (much greater than 8GB limit) support to my bootloader. It currently is not dependent on particular BIOS geometries, just the limit of the maximum addressable area. -- Erich Stefan Boleyn \_ E-mail (preferred): Mad Genius wanna-be, CyberMuffin \__ (finger me for other stats) Web: http://www.uruk.org/~erich/ Motto: "I'll live forever or die trying" This is my home system, so I'm speaking only for myself, not for Intel. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 15:14:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA03791 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:14:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA03786 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:14:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA00823 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:13:59 -0700 Message-Id: <199605212213.PAA00823@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: direct ethernet interface? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 15:13:58 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Is there an easy way for me to send packets to a ethernet interface? On VMS, we had the capability of issuing a qio to the ethernet interface so I am wondering if we have an ioctl or something that would allow me to talk the ethernet interface. Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 15:16:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA03925 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:16:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA03898 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:16:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA02223; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:10:08 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605212210.PAA02223@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Socket library question To: stevenf@thetics.europa.com (Steven Frank) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 15:10:08 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Steven Frank" at May 21, 96 11:10:10 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have ported the BSD socket library to another OS, and added an > integrated PPP interface and modem dialer. The ultimate goal is a > Trumpet WinSock-ish type of application. Which OS? > It all seems to be working well except for one thing. When a client > application calls recv(), and the recv() cannot be fulfilled immediately, > the kernel calls sbwait() which in turn calls tsleep(). Somehow the > appropriate wakeup is not happening and it stays in tsleep() > indefinitely. If this is Win95 we're talking about here, then you probably implemented these with the Win95 semaphore calls? You should be aware of two things: 1) When an event to be processed comes in, it can be run on any blocking thread. 2) The semaphores are not good for blocking self reeentrancy. Effectively, this means Win95 can reentry your code with any async event and you are powerless to stop it, unless you implement a counting semaphore on top of their thread semaphores. This became obvious when running updated in UFS implemented on Windows95; I can't claim credit for the kill. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 15:25:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA04731 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:25:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA04723 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:25:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA00926 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:25:31 -0700 Message-Id: <199605212225.PAA00926@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: SMC Ultra Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 15:25:29 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a two computers here and I am thinking about connecting them using SMC's Ultra . My question is simple if I connect the two SMC's Ultra directly with a UTP cable will I be able to get 100MB/sec? Or will I have to get a fancy hub. Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 15:34:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA05567 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:34:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA05558 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:34:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.5/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id PAA16747 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:34:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id XAA08749; Tue, 21 May 1996 23:30:23 +0100 (BST) To: Gary Aitken cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Wilson Liaw , tgiannelli@applix.com From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Anyone interested in the following? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 May 1996 15:50:31 MDT." <31A23AA7.597D@ics.com> Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 23:30:23 +0100 Message-ID: <8747.832717823@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gary Aitken wrote in message ID <31A23AA7.597D@ics.com>: > email: > Netscape 3.0 Netscape is not an e-mail package, and I would never thing of classing it as such. If you want to be strict in your continued comparisons to Windows type applications, MS Mail or something would be more appropriate Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 15:42:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA06232 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:42:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA06227 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:42:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA02321; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:37:06 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605212237.PAA02321@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Glitch in install procedure. To: erich@uruk.org Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 15:37:06 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, dutchman@spase.nl, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605212211.PAA14120@uruk.org> from "erich@uruk.org" at May 21, 96 03:11:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Maybe I'm missing something, but: > > 1) FreeBSD already gets the BIOS geometry of hard disks from it's > normal bootloader. You are missing the ability to map BIOS drive ID's to BSD physical devices. BSD controllers are found in probe order. DOS INT 13 BIOS drive ID's are found in POST initialization order. > 2) Can't you just make a "BIOS query" hunk of patch code, copy it > down into the first 1MB of RAM, and run it to produce your > BIOS geometry ? You would also have to run BIOS INT 13 base reads to run MD5 checksums on blocks of the device, in order, until you uniquely identified the device (or if you don't pre-run them, then you could compare a sector read from the protected mode driver wit one read using INT 13. This will let you map the 0x8x ID's to BSD devices, and therefore map the geometries, known by ID's, to the BSD devices. This solves all the problems. Unfortunately, there is no '"BIOS query" hunk of patch code', since it is effectively, exactly what would be necessary for VM86() support (desirable, but not implemented). If you could address this one (say by doing a VM86() call), then we can probably take up a collection and buy you lunch for some time to come. 8-). > BTW: I'm looking for ways to safely add LBA (much greater than 8GB > limit) support to my bootloader. It currently is not dependent > on particular BIOS geometries, just the limit of the maximum > addressable area. Have you looked at the VFAT32 code? They change both the partition table data and the msdos.dos/io.dos (the replacements for io.sys and msdos.sys for DOS 7.x). The add additional INT 13 entry points for doing all this, and they make the system recognize them. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 16:04:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA08289 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 16:04:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uruk.org (uruk.org [198.145.95.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA08283 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 16:04:38 -0700 (PDT) From: erich@uruk.org Received: from loopback (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by uruk.org (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA14261; Tue, 21 May 1996 16:04:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605212304.QAA14261@uruk.org> X-Authentication-Warning: uruk.org: Host loopback [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: dutchman@spase.nl, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Glitch in install procedure. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 May 1996 15:37:06 PDT." <199605212237.PAA02321@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 16:04:47 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > Maybe I'm missing something, but: > > > > 1) FreeBSD already gets the BIOS geometry of hard disks from it's > > normal bootloader. > > You are missing the ability to map BIOS drive ID's to BSD physical > devices. > > BSD controllers are found in probe order. > > DOS INT 13 BIOS drive ID's are found in POST initialization order. Whoops! You're right. I keep forgetting that I'm dealing with BIOS device ID's (at least, it's easy to forget... :-/. > > 2) Can't you just make a "BIOS query" hunk of patch code, copy it > > down into the first 1MB of RAM, and run it to produce your > > BIOS geometry ? > > You would also have to run BIOS INT 13 base reads to run MD5 checksums > on blocks of the device, in order, until you uniquely identified the > device (or if you don't pre-run them, then you could compare a sector > read from the protected mode driver wit one read using INT 13. > > This will let you map the 0x8x ID's to BSD devices, and therefore > map the geometries, known by ID's, to the BSD devices. > > This solves all the problems. INT 13 reads might not work, since even the probe might ruin the BIOS setup with the controller. > Unfortunately, there is no '"BIOS query" hunk of patch code', since > it is effectively, exactly what would be necessary for VM86() > support (desirable, but not implemented). You don't need "VM86" code, really. It just depend on when you run your probe in the boot sequence. Well, we do know: 1) The order of IDE controller initialization. 2) Each SCSI adapter driver knows it's BIOS translation, right? (or what it's capable of... the newer BusLogic controllers, for example, adapt to the BIOS translation it finds in the MBR of each hard drive if you have it set up right) > Have you looked at the VFAT32 code? They change both the partition > table data and the msdos.dos/io.dos (the replacements for io.sys and > msdos.sys for DOS 7.x). The add additional INT 13 entry points for > doing all this, and they make the system recognize them. Well, the "standard" BIOS LBA calls might just work if I use them, though there are still a few issues to resolve. -- Erich Stefan Boleyn \_ E-mail (preferred): Mad Genius wanna-be, CyberMuffin \__ (finger me for other stats) Web: http://www.uruk.org/~erich/ Motto: "I'll live forever or die trying" This is my home system, so I'm speaking only for myself, not for Intel. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 16:09:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA08606 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 16:09:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nightmare.dreamchaser.org ([207.40.47.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA08601; Tue, 21 May 1996 16:09:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mofo (mofo.dreamchaser.org [206.230.42.91]) by nightmare.dreamchaser.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA04359; Tue, 21 May 1996 17:08:58 -0600 Message-ID: <31A24D03.2A0B@ics.com> Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 17:08:51 -0600 From: Gary Aitken Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b3 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4c) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gary Palmer CC: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Wilson Liaw , tgiannelli@applix.com Subject: Re: Anyone interested in the following? References: <8747.832717823@palmer.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Netscape is not an e-mail package, and I would never thing of classing > it as such. If you want to be strict in your continued comparisons to > Windows type applications, MS Mail or something would be more > appropriate I guess it depends on your perspective. 3.0 comes with a perfectly serviceable gui interface for email, comparable to Eudora and other pc mail apps. -- Gary Aitken garya@ics.com (business) garya@dreamchaser.org (personal) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 16:22:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA10563 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 16:22:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA10552 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 16:21:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id BAA08977; Wed, 22 May 1996 01:21:40 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id BAA09919; Wed, 22 May 1996 01:21:40 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA11318; Wed, 22 May 1996 01:20:22 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605212320.BAA11318@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: I broke libgcc.a :( To: dunn@harborcom.net Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 01:20:22 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605211856.OAA04378@ns2.harborcom.net> from Bradley Dunn at "May 21, 96 02:53:40 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Bradley Dunn wrote: > How does this actually work, though? How is the magic number for > libgcc.a calculated? It's the first couple of bytes or so. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 16:25:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA10826 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 16:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA10821 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 16:25:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id BAA08990; Wed, 22 May 1996 01:21:44 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id BAA09922; Wed, 22 May 1996 01:21:43 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA11222; Wed, 22 May 1996 01:09:06 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605212309.BAA11222@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: can't mount "gold" CDs written by Yamaha recorder To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 01:09:06 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: mark@linus.demon.co.uk (Mark Valentine) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605212148.WAA03974@linus.demon.co.uk> from Mark Valentine at "May 21, 96 10:48:44 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Mark Valentine wrote: > Since we bought the hardware/software as a bundle, we'll probably just > return the lot and buy the HP recorder and a box to run -current... Feel free to ask me any questions regarding the CD-R driver. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 16:34:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA12090 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 16:34:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from europa.com (root@thetics.europa.com [199.2.194.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA12085 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 16:34:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by europa.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.13) id ; Tue, 21 May 96 16:34 PDT Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 16:34:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Steven Frank To: Terry Lambert cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Socket library question In-Reply-To: <199605212210.PAA02223@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Which OS? > > If this is Win95 we're talking about here, then you probably implemented > these with the Win95 semaphore calls? The port was to Amiga OS, and yes the splx() emulation was done with OS semaphore calls. Amiga semaphore calls are non-counting and attempts to obtain the semaphore block the task until the owning task releases it. In my implementation the TCP/IP stack, PPP interface, and serial code are all rolled into one program that runs as a single task. Perhaps there is a similar problem with the Amiga's task scheduler as there is with Win95? I realize that Amiga OS is not widely in use, but I'm just looking for any leads or similar problems on other OSes that might make the light bulb come on in my head. Do you think that the spl calls are the most likely cause of the problem I described? Thanks for responding! From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 16:54:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA14814 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 16:54:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA14784 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 16:54:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA02519; Tue, 21 May 1996 16:48:33 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605212348.QAA02519@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Glitch in install procedure. To: erich@uruk.org Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 16:48:33 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, dutchman@spase.nl, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605212304.QAA14261@uruk.org> from "erich@uruk.org" at May 21, 96 04:04:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > This will let you map the 0x8x ID's to BSD devices, and therefore > > map the geometries, known by ID's, to the BSD devices. > > > > This solves all the problems. > > INT 13 reads might not work, since even the probe might ruin the BIOS > setup with the controller. If this happens, it's broken. I know all you would need to do is preread all BIOS devices to get unique sector/byte identifiers. There isn't enough room in the second stage boot to do this before the probe. If the kernel could make vm86() calls, it could do it before the probe, though. > Well, we do know: > > 1) The order of IDE controller initialization. ??? I don't know how to figure that one... > 2) Each SCSI adapter driver knows it's BIOS translation, right? > (or what it's capable of... the newer BusLogic controllers, > for example, adapt to the BIOS translation it finds in the > MBR of each hard drive if you have it set up right) No. Adaptec 1742 controllers (for instance) have two possible translation modes, based on an EISA config setting. The BusLogic "autodetection" is scary. In any case, you have to ask the controller using BIOS (INT 13, AH=0x08) to get the BIOS answer. 8-(. > > Have you looked at the VFAT32 code? They change both the partition > > table data and the msdos.dos/io.dos (the replacements for io.sys and > > msdos.sys for DOS 7.x). The add additional INT 13 entry points for > > doing all this, and they make the system recognize them. > > Well, the "standard" BIOS LBA calls might just work if I use them, though > there are still a few issues to resolve. Yeah, like whether or not they are there when you boot off the floppy to boot BSD. They aren't, if they are provided by ONTrack or similar software and you didn't boot off the hard drive. 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 16:57:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA15874 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 16:57:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA15869 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 16:57:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA02533; Tue, 21 May 1996 16:52:53 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605212352.QAA02533@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Socket library question To: stevenf@thetics.europa.com (Steven Frank) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 16:52:53 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Steven Frank" at May 21, 96 04:34:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Which OS? > > > > If this is Win95 we're talking about here, then you probably implemented > > these with the Win95 semaphore calls? > > The port was to Amiga OS, and yes the splx() emulation was done with > OS semaphore calls. Amiga semaphore calls are non-counting and attempts > to obtain the semaphore block the task until the owning task releases > it. In my implementation the TCP/IP stack, PPP interface, and serial > code are all rolled into one program that runs as a single task. Perhaps > there is a similar problem with the Amiga's task scheduler as there is > with Win95? > > I realize that Amiga OS is not widely in use, but I'm just looking > for any leads or similar problems on other OSes that might make the light > bulb come on in my head. > > Do you think that the spl calls are the most likely cause of the > problem I described? Ah... I have a low serial number Amiga 1000. 8-). You should probably macrotize the spl calls, and inc a reference count when you get the semaphore, and dec it when you let it go. Then you can scream if the count goes above 1, and you've found your bug. The way you havled this in Win95 would be to check the count and call a yield. I don't know if you can unwind state sufficiently or not in the case of a process reentering. You might not be able to... it's been a long time since I wrote Amiga code. 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 17:36:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA18718 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 17:36:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from metal.ops.neosoft.com (root@metal.ops.neosoft.com [206.109.5.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA18707 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 17:36:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from smace@localhost) by metal.ops.neosoft.com (8.7.5/8.6.10) id TAA26824 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 21 May 1996 19:35:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Scott Mace Message-Id: <199605220035.TAA26824@metal.ops.neosoft.com> Subject: 3COM 3C579 support BROKEN in 2.1-STABLE To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 19:35:48 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that the latest pass of eisa stuff broke support for 3COM 3C579s. They probe and config ok, but do not move and packets whatsoever. Scott From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 17:43:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA19190 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 17:43:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lynx.its.unimelb.edu.au (lynx.its.unimelb.EDU.AU [128.250.20.151]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA19166 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 17:42:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from danny@localhost) by lynx.its.unimelb.edu.au (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA17436; Wed, 22 May 1996 10:41:11 +1000 Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 10:41:10 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Dan Polivy cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SECURITY BUG in FreeBSD (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 17 May 1996, Dan Polivy wrote: > FreeBSD has a security hole... > dangerous is mount_union if suid is set > vulnerable systems are: FreeBSD 2.1 RELEASE/2.2 CURRENT > probably FreeBSD 2.1 STABLE is not vulnerable 2.0.5-RELEASE has /sbin/mount_union as 4755. I'm not going to test it on a live system, but since I don't use the command, I rm'ed it. Anyone tested 2.0.5? Danny From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 18:09:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA22139 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 18:09:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA22128 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 18:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA00231; Wed, 22 May 1996 10:53:30 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605220123.KAA00231@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Socket library question To: stevenf@thetics.europa.com (Steven Frank) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 10:53:29 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Steven Frank" at May 21, 96 11:10:10 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Steven Frank stands accused of saying: > > I have a very technical question about BSD socket library code, and > someone suggested this mailing list as a resource. Not a bad place to start 8) > I have ported the BSD socket library to another OS, and added an > integrated PPP interface and modem dialer. The ultimate goal is a > Trumpet WinSock-ish type of application. > > It all seems to be working well except for one thing. When a client > application calls recv(), and the recv() cannot be fulfilled immediately, > the kernel calls sbwait() which in turn calls tsleep(). Somehow the > appropriate wakeup is not happening and it stays in tsleep() > indefinitely. How much of the kernel did you port?! You should start by looking at what the original code is sleeping _on_, and find any/all wakeups that match it. > I realize this question is kind of a long shot, but does anyone know > what might be going on? Other tsleeps() in the code get woken up > correctly. Could there be a problem in my emulation of the splx() > calls? Perhaps the kernel is fine, and the problem stems from the fact > that the PPP interface came from a different flavor of BSD than the kernel? You may have missed the code that's responsible for the appropriate wakeup. It's possible that the OS/network interface that you're layering on top of behaves sufficiently differently to FreeBSD that some condition/situation is not being met. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 18:19:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA22732 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 18:19:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA22727; Tue, 21 May 1996 18:19:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA01774; Tue, 21 May 1996 19:17:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199605220117.TAA01774@rover.village.org> To: "David S. Miller" Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... Cc: terry@lambert.org, jehamby@lightside.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 21 May 1996 14:08:41 EDT Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 19:17:54 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : You see there will always be something else, you cannot eliminate all : the contention problems (ever think about what would be involved : in implementing a low contention SMP locking scheme for the entire : berkeley networking stack?). You've dug yourself into a hole and are : trying now to dig yourself out, you may get partway out but you must : stay in the hole inevitably. I think the figure that Solbourne was telling some poeple was about four or six man years to come up with a true SMP OS with fine grained locking. I seem to recall that about a year of that was for the networking code in SunOS 4.1.x. The OS/MP kernels scaled well past 4 CPUs and I think the most was something like 12 or so. I'm not sure if any larger number of CPU machines were ever built or not. I know that on a 3CPU system we got nearly 3.0 times three 1 CPU systems of the same speed (something like 2.9 for the specmarks). For an 8 CPU system it wasn't as good (7.5ish) but still well worth it. For a 12 CPU system, I think the number was down to 11ish, but most of that work was done after I left Solbourne. None of these numbers prove that it was a low contention TCP stack, but I know that an interesting number of companies still use big Solbourne Iron for their DP needs. It was a seriously non-trivial amount of work to get thigns to this point. This was the number one reason that the lag between Sun FCS and Solbourne FCS was so large. Don't know if clustering is the answer because then you get a lot of data copying overhead that is free on a shared memory MP box. Does lock contention get so bad that you actually win by data copying for huge numbers of CPUs? I don't know, but it is certainly an area of research that will be fruitful for a few years. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 18:36:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA23976 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 18:36:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uruk.org (uruk.org [198.145.95.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA23841 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 18:35:49 -0700 (PDT) From: erich@uruk.org Received: from loopback (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by uruk.org (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA14623; Tue, 21 May 1996 18:36:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605220136.SAA14623@uruk.org> X-Authentication-Warning: uruk.org: Host loopback [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: BIOS Disk setup (was -> Re: Glitch in install procedure.) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 May 1996 16:48:33 PDT." <199605212348.QAA02519@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 18:36:04 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > > This will let you map the 0x8x ID's to BSD devices, and therefore > > > map the geometries, known by ID's, to the BSD devices. > > > > > > This solves all the problems. > > > > INT 13 reads might not work, since even the probe might ruin the BIOS > > setup with the controller. > > If this happens, it's broken. I must admit to being no expert on the interaction of BIOS and other drivers, but I generally haven't heard that a disk controller's BIOS is very happy about having the controller stolen out from under it (or for that matter, having a disk driver be unloadable in DOS). So, you're claiming the BIOS interface should work even after poking and playing with the hardware directly? > I know all you would need to do is preread all BIOS devices to get unique > sector/byte identifiers. There isn't enough room in the second stage > boot to do this before the probe. If the kernel could make vm86() > calls, it could do it before the probe, though. I agree on this point... but in general you can't really be sure that each disk is unique. (OK, the probability is VERY high that you will be able to tell the difference). Hmmm... it makes me wonder how the various manufacturers do it in DOS, but they probably have a way to ask their own BIOS interfaces which controller it is really on. That gives me a crazy thought. If you find a real disk controller... use a VM86-mode handler (i.e. one with enforced protection!) to try to make a BIOS call. If it works correctly, and the hardware driver says the device was "untouched", then you know that it wasn't the one probed. If it hangs past some timeout, or some other such thing, then you know which BIOS device it is (was). > > Well, we do know: > > > > 1) The order of IDE controller initialization. > > ??? I don't know how to figure that one... Easy. If the controller is using interrupt 14, it's the first one. You then count through the drives (the "master" drive of course being first on each controller). Admittedly, this would break if someone was running an IDE controller at a different interrupt than 14 or 15, but I have yet to see a controller which lets you do this (I agree one should be sure of this one first, but if it is an invariant, why not take advantage of it?). > > 2) Each SCSI adapter driver knows it's BIOS translation, right? > > (or what it's capable of... the newer BusLogic controllers, > > for example, adapt to the BIOS translation it finds in the > > MBR of each hard drive if you have it set up right) > > No. Adaptec 1742 controllers (for instance) have two possible > translation modes, based on an EISA config setting. The BusLogic > "autodetection" is scary. So, is the EISA config setting not interpretable in general for the 1742 ? Well... the BugLogic is still predictable, in general. > In any case, you have to ask the controller using BIOS (INT 13, AH=0x08) > to get the BIOS answer. 8-(. What do you mean here? You haven't provided a "why" for the "in any case"... ...[on the topic of reading past the 8GB limits imposed by the standard INT 13h C:H:S interfaces]... > > > Have you looked at the VFAT32 code? They change both the partition > > > table data and the msdos.dos/io.dos (the replacements for io.sys and > > > msdos.sys for DOS 7.x). The add additional INT 13 entry points for > > > doing all this, and they make the system recognize them. > > > > Well, the "standard" BIOS LBA calls might just work if I use them, though > > there are still a few issues to resolve. > > Yeah, like whether or not they are there when you boot off the floppy > to boot BSD. They aren't, if they are provided by ONTrack or similar > software and you didn't boot off the hard drive. 8-(. The BIOS LBA calls have a "query to see if I exist" call. That plus knowing you can't use them for floppies seems reasonable. As it is I only use the "BIOS geometry" call when booting off of a hard disk, because it doesn't work on some machines... and it certainly doesn't return the right values for floppies of different sizes than the normal drive setup (like a 720K floppy in a 1.44MB drive). I perform a probe to figure out the disk size on those. -- Erich Stefan Boleyn \_ E-mail (preferred): Mad Genius wanna-be, CyberMuffin \__ (finger me for other stats) Web: http://www.uruk.org/~erich/ Motto: "I'll live forever or die trying" This is my home system, so I'm speaking only for myself, not for Intel. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 18:45:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA24487 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 18:45:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA24482; Tue, 21 May 1996 18:45:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA02800; Tue, 21 May 1996 18:40:10 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605220140.SAA02800@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 18:40:09 -0700 (MST) Cc: davem@caip.rutgers.edu, terry@lambert.org, jehamby@lightside.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199605220117.TAA01774@rover.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at May 21, 96 07:17:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Don't know if clustering is the answer because then you get a lot of > data copying overhead that is free on a shared memory MP box. Does > lock contention get so bad that you actually win by data copying for > huge numbers of CPUs? I don't know, but it is certainly an area of > research that will be fruitful for a few years. I haven't responded to the other post yet myself because of the time needed to give it fair treatment. I dislike the clustering soloution at a gut level. I have to say I agree that the data copying overhead is a big loss, especially if you plan to migrate processes between clusters (anyone else ever run Amoeba?). The locking overhead only applies to contended memory access; using per processor pools instead of a Solaris/SVR4 pure SLAB allocator resolves most of the locking issues. The locking overhead scales relative to bus contention and cache invalidation and/or update overhead for distributed cache coherency. This is more a design flaw in the SMP model used by Solaris/SVR4 than it is an inhernet flaw in the idea of shared memory SMP. Hybrid NUMA architectures using per processor page pools instead of sharing all memory are a big win (Sequent proved this; where Sequent screwed up was in not doing real FS multithreading. Even so, Sequent was able to scale a BSD-derived OS to 32 processors without a lot of undue overhead. The idea of SLAB allocation (as treated in the Vahalia book) is a good one; but it probably wants to be implemented on top of a per processor pool global memory allocator to make it less contentious. The idea of distributed cluster computing only works for small domain distribution; the net is currently too unreliable (and too slow) for any serious process migration over a big domain. And the net is probably only going to get worse in the short term. By the time it's fixed, I suspect content servers will have a big edge over compute servers as a desirable resource. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 19:01:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA25566 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 19:01:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ki.net (root@ki.net [205.150.102.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA25551 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 19:01:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id VAA05429; Tue, 21 May 1996 21:59:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 21:59:38 -0400 (EDT) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SMC Ultra In-Reply-To: <199605212225.PAA00926@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 May 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > I have a two computers here and I am thinking about connecting them > using SMC's Ultra . My question is simple if I connect the > two SMC's Ultra directly with a UTP cable will I be able to get > 100MB/sec? Or will I have to get a fancy hub. > The SMC's Ultras are only 10MB/s...aren't they? Marc G. Fournier scrappy@ki.net Systems Administrator @ ki.net scrappy@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 19:04:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA25793 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 19:04:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA25788 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 19:04:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA00396; Tue, 21 May 1996 19:04:13 -0700 Message-Id: <199605220204.TAA00396@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: "Marc G. Fournier" cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SMC Ultra In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 May 1996 21:59:38 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 19:04:12 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Tue, 21 May 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > > > > I have a two computers here and I am thinking about connecting them > > using SMC's Ultra . My question is simple if I connect the > > two SMC's Ultra directly with a UTP cable will I be able to get > > 100MB/sec? Or will I have to get a fancy hub. > > > The SMC's Ultras are only 10MB/s...aren't they? > > Marc G. Fournier scrappy@ki.net > Systems Administrator @ ki.net scrappy@freebsd.org > Ooops, I meant SMC EtherPower. Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 19:16:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA26492 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 19:16:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA26487 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 19:16:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA02885; Tue, 21 May 1996 19:10:44 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605220210.TAA02885@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: BIOS Disk setup (was -> Re: Glitch in install procedure.) To: erich@uruk.org Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 19:10:44 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605220136.SAA14623@uruk.org> from "erich@uruk.org" at May 21, 96 06:36:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > If this happens, it's broken. > > I must admit to being no expert on the interaction of BIOS and other > drivers, but I generally haven't heard that a disk controller's BIOS is > very happy about having the controller stolen out from under it (or for > that matter, having a disk driver be unloadable in DOS). > > So, you're claiming the BIOS interface should work even after poking > and playing with the hardware directly? No, actually, I think the kernel should use the BIOS until it has all the information it needs to put its drivers in place of INT 13 based drivers and still reliably get the INT 13 information. This is slightly different. I know that I couldn't possible expect the Adaptec BIOS to operate after we overwrite the Adaptec supplied microcode (for instance). > > I know all you would need to do is preread all BIOS devices to get unique > > sector/byte identifiers. There isn't enough room in the second stage > > boot to do this before the probe. If the kernel could make vm86() > > calls, it could do it before the probe, though. > > I agree on this point... but in general you can't really be sure that > each disk is unique. (OK, the probability is VERY high that you will > be able to tell the difference). If you get all of the disks, and compare them for uniqueness so that you have a fully populated interference graph, then you can. This might take some time to do if you have identical data on a lot of select blocks on a lot of disks. But it *is* doable. > Hmmm... it makes me wonder how the various manufacturers do it in DOS, > but they probably have a way to ask their own BIOS interfaces which > controller it is really on. They chain the INT 13 during POST after asking anyone in front of them (ie: anyone who POSTed first) what BIOS drives are there. If you install a second disk on controller 1, you move ID's 0x81 and so on up one ID. The chain knows that 0x82 was supplied by this controller, and so it acts accordingly. This (and the broken IFSMgr_SendEvent) is the reason you have to reboot Win95 after partitioning... logical drive numbers (at the INT 21 interface) are treated the same way based on partition table decoding. > That gives me a crazy thought. If you find a real disk controller... > use a VM86-mode handler (i.e. one with enforced protection!) to try > to make a BIOS call. If it works correctly, and the hardware driver > says the device was "untouched", then you know that it wasn't the one > probed. If it hangs past some timeout, or some other such thing, then > you know which BIOS device it is (was). That's a bit evil. Better to load all the information to identify all INT 13 physical drives uniquely (a set of sector offset/value tuples is sufficient). Then you can probe controllers you recognize, grab the physical devices, and then anything that doesn't map, you know it's on a controller you couldn't probe. Because of that, you know it's safe to use VM86()-based BIOS calls to communicate with those devices (assuming you can). For a completely modular kernel, this would be all drives during install, and during the boot stage until controller-specific drivers have been dynamically loaded (booting is a single-threaded sequence of events anyway). > > > 1) The order of IDE controller initialization. > > > > ??? I don't know how to figure that one... > > Easy. If the controller is using interrupt 14, it's the first one. > You then count through the drives (the "master" drive of course being > first on each controller). > > Admittedly, this would break if someone was running an IDE controller at > a different interrupt than 14 or 15, but I have yet to see a controller > which lets you do this (I agree one should be sure of this one first, but > if it is an invariant, why not take advantage of it?). Clever. But dies in the face of SCSI + IDE in the same machine. 8-(. You could use the INT 21 raw read and a knowledge of partition tables coupled with INT 13 physical raw reads to identify which logical drives are on which disks, etc.. This is basically what Win95 does during its switch to protected mode. > > No. Adaptec 1742 controllers (for instance) have two possible > > translation modes, based on an EISA config setting. The BusLogic > > "autodetection" is scary. > > So, is the EISA config setting not interpretable in general for the 1742 ? Nope; unfortunately, you have to have VM86() to call EISA BIOS to get the amount of per slot CMOS for a card -- it's not standardized. Then you have to know how the card uses the CMOS. In general, this is done by hard-coding the knowledge in the driver, since the CFG files can't be used by a jernel to decode the information (the CFG files are themselves only internally consistent with the driver, and not standard otherwise, as far as decoding what resources are in use). > Well... the BugLogic is still predictable, in general. 8-). > > In any case, you have to ask the controller using BIOS (INT 13, AH=0x08) > > to get the BIOS answer. 8-(. > > What do you mean here? You haven't provided a "why" for the "in any > case"... You have to know the BIOS geometry to be able to create legal partitions; for instance, the OS/2 boot manager is picky about cylinder boundries. You also need to make sure the BIOS-based boot blocks will get the same real sector for the start of the BSD partition as BSD has in the disktab, so the offset can be interpreted, first by the BIOS-based second stage boot to load the kernel, and second, to calculate the real sector offset in BSD for the C/H/S value in the partition table, which must be interpreted by protected mode code. There are also issues like linear translation (sector c*H*S + h*S + s is abosolute sector AS), offset linear translation (OnTrack LBA MBR's offsets all addresses through INT 13 by -64 sectors; other LBA MBR's offset by 1 Cylinder, or whatever, etc.), and non-linear translation (sector sparing in the BIOS, such that DOS partitions are unusable, like WD1007 controllers with J8 J14). Etc.. > The BIOS LBA calls have a "query to see if I exist" call. That plus knowing > you can't use them for floppies seems reasonable. Assuming the query works on all old hardware. ;-). (AFAIK, it does). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 19:17:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA26593 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 19:17:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ki.net (root@ki.net [205.150.102.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA26585 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 19:17:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id WAA06009; Tue, 21 May 1996 22:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 22:17:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SMC Ultra In-Reply-To: <199605220204.TAA00396@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 May 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > The SMC's Ultras are only 10MB/s...aren't they? > > > > Ooops, I meant SMC EtherPower. > Darn, I was hoping I was wrong...again :) Marc G. Fournier scrappy@ki.net Systems Administrator @ ki.net scrappy@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 19:45:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA28650 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 19:45:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA28616; Tue, 21 May 1996 19:44:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.7.5/8.6.5) id IAA11461; Wed, 22 May 1996 08:43:34 +0600 (GMT+0600) From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199605220243.IAA11461@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... - Reply To: DARREND@novell.com (Darren Davis) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 08:43:33 +0600 (ESD) Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Darren Davis" at May 21, 96 08:15:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Don't forget that it is but a short hop from Solaris/x86 ELF binaries to > UnixWare 2.x ELF binaries. UnixWare is going to be the future direction > for SCO, so having the ability to run these binaries would be excellent! > Besides, I have many of them I want to run. BTW, SCO5 already has ELF support and most of its standard utilities are already compiled in ELF format (I think they did it to use the ELF shared libraries). -SB From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 19:55:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA29614 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 19:55:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from europa.com (root@thetics.europa.com [199.2.194.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA29607 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 19:55:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by europa.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.13) id ; Tue, 21 May 96 19:55 PDT Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 19:55:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Steven Frank To: Michael Smith cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Socket library question In-Reply-To: <199605220123.KAA00231@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > How much of the kernel did you port?! You should start by looking at what > the original code is sleeping _on_, and find any/all wakeups that match it. I ported everything to do with sockets and TCP/IP, and the domain name resolver. (most of net/ and netinet/ and a little of kern/) Fortunately it's all quite platform-independent and the only things that had to really be "ported" were the kernel-level calls to set the processing level and handle sleep queues, etc. The sleep in question that is not getting woken up is in the sbwait() function in kern/uipc_socket2.c. It waits on the sb_cc field of the receiving socket buffer. (So it should continue when more network data comes in, I assume.) More data is coming in, but the sleep is not broken. > You may have missed the code that's responsible for the appropriate wakeup. I am fairly sure the wakeup is in there, but it is most likely being blocked from execution somehow. > It's possible that the OS/network interface that you're layering on top > of behaves sufficiently differently to FreeBSD that some condition/situation > is not being met. I should clarify this point, actually... The code I used for the base socket library and TCP stack is the "bsd-sources" located on munnari.oz.au. The PPP interface came from NetBSD 1.1. So, technically, it has nothing specifically to do with FreeBSD, but I have noticed that the socket portion of the code seems to be almost exactly the same across the different BSDs I have looked at. That's why I'm asking on the FreeBSD mailing list, as well as several other places. :) Thanks for the help. Hope my explanation wasn't too muddled. :) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 19:58:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA29884 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 19:58:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from europa.com (root@thetics.europa.com [199.2.194.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA29871 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 19:58:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by europa.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.13) id ; Tue, 21 May 96 19:58 PDT Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 19:58:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Steven Frank To: Terry Lambert cc: terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Socket library question In-Reply-To: <199605212352.QAA02533@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > You should probably macrotize the spl calls, and inc a reference > count when you get the semaphore, and dec it when you let it go. > Then you can scream if the count goes above 1, and you've found > your bug. I will try this as soon as possible. Will keep you posted. Thanks again! From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 20:04:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA00412 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 20:04:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA00406 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 20:04:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by onyx.nervosa.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA06197; Tue, 21 May 1996 20:04:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 20:04:31 -0700 (PDT) From: "Chris J. Layne" To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SMC Ultra In-Reply-To: <199605212225.PAA00926@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 May 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > I have a two computers here and I am thinking about connecting them > using SMC's Ultra . My question is simple if I connect the > two SMC's Ultra directly with a UTP cable will I be able to get > 100MB/sec? Or will I have to get a fancy hub. > > Tnks, > Amancio You have to make a null ethernet cable. == Chris Layne ======================================== Nervosa Computing == == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 20:11:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA00867 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 20:11:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA00858 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 20:11:51 -0700 (PDT) From: erich@uruk.org Received: from uruk.org (uruk.org [198.145.95.253]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.5/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id UAA19435 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 20:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from loopback (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by uruk.org (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA14803; Tue, 21 May 1996 20:08:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605220308.UAA14803@uruk.org> X-Authentication-Warning: uruk.org: Host loopback [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BIOS Disk setup (was -> Re: Glitch in install procedure.) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 May 1996 19:10:44 PDT." <199605220210.TAA02885@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 20:08:42 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > So, you're claiming the BIOS interface should work even after poking > > and playing with the hardware directly? > > No, actually, I think the kernel should use the BIOS until it has all > the information it needs to put its drivers in place of INT 13 based > drivers and still reliably get the INT 13 information. This is > slightly different. > > I know that I couldn't possible expect the Adaptec BIOS to operate > after we overwrite the Adaptec supplied microcode (for instance). Hmmm... I think we're generally in violent agreement, then. > > I agree on this point... but in general you can't really be sure that > > each disk is unique. (OK, the probability is VERY high that you will > > be able to tell the difference). > > If you get all of the disks, and compare them for uniqueness so that you > have a fully populated interference graph, then you can. This might > take some time to do if you have identical data on a lot of select blocks > on a lot of disks. But it *is* doable. I agree that statistically, this is highly likely to work. I'm worried about the degenerate cases. > > Hmmm... it makes me wonder how the various manufacturers do it in DOS, > > but they probably have a way to ask their own BIOS interfaces which > > controller it is really on. > > They chain the INT 13 during POST after asking anyone in front of > them (ie: anyone who POSTed first) what BIOS drives are there. > > If you install a second disk on controller 1, you move ID's 0x81 and > so on up one ID. > > The chain knows that 0x82 was supplied by this controller, and so it > acts accordingly. > > This (and the broken IFSMgr_SendEvent) is the reason you have to > reboot Win95 after partitioning... logical drive numbers (at the > INT 21 interface) are treated the same way based on partition table > decoding. Yes, yes. I'm aware of this stuff... that's why I had the idea in the following section. You didn't really respond about the same topic, though. I was curious about how the manufacturers figure out which BIOS drive number corresponds to their own disk with their higher-performance/functionality drivers when transparently replacing the BIOS service without disturbing the other drives. I think this is also somewhat relevant to the next section. > > That gives me a crazy thought. If you find a real disk controller... > > use a VM86-mode handler (i.e. one with enforced protection!) to try > > to make a BIOS call. If it works correctly, and the hardware driver > > says the device was "untouched", then you know that it wasn't the one > > probed. If it hangs past some timeout, or some other such thing, then > > you know which BIOS device it is (was). > > That's a bit evil. Better to load all the information to identify > all INT 13 physical drives uniquely (a set of sector offset/value > tuples is sufficient). > > Then you can probe controllers you recognize, grab the physical devices, > and then anything that doesn't map, you know it's on a controller you > couldn't probe. Well, at least if it works, it would be a known mechanism. The statistical probe strikes me as a kind of shot in the dark, since you really can have duplicated disks, for example... or zeroed disks. You'd have to allow for failure of the probe. > Because of that, you know it's safe to use VM86()-based BIOS calls to > communicate with those devices (assuming you can). > > For a completely modular kernel, this would be all drives during > install, and during the boot stage until controller-specific > drivers have been dynamically loaded (booting is a single-threaded > sequence of events anyway). In general, I agree this is the Right Thing (tm) to do, whatever probe mechanism one uses to determine the which drives are OK to use. > > > > 1) The order of IDE controller initialization. > > > > > > ??? I don't know how to figure that one... > > > > Easy. If the controller is using interrupt 14, it's the first one. > > You then count through the drives (the "master" drive of course being > > first on each controller). > > > > Admittedly, this would break if someone was running an IDE controller at > > a different interrupt than 14 or 15, but I have yet to see a controller > > which lets you do this (I agree one should be sure of this one first, but > > if it is an invariant, why not take advantage of it?). > > Clever. But dies in the face of SCSI + IDE in the same machine. 8-(. I was simply referring to the fact that this is how you can identify IDE devices. SCSI still needs the more general-purpose solution we're haggling over above. > You could use the INT 21 raw read and a knowledge of partition tables > coupled with INT 13 physical raw reads to identify which logical drives > are on which disks, etc.. This is basically what Win95 does during > its switch to protected mode. Huh? You never need to work with the "INT 21" stuff (isn't this also installed by DOS... I'm talking about raw BIOS services). AFAIK it is completely determinable from the physical raw interface (INT 13 -based) plus knowing partition tables. > > > In any case, you have to ask the controller using BIOS (INT 13, AH=0x08) > > > to get the BIOS answer. 8-(. > > > > What do you mean here? You haven't provided a "why" for the "in any > > case"... > > You have to know the BIOS geometry to be able to create legal partitions; > for instance, the OS/2 boot manager is picky about cylinder boundries. Well, if you know how the controller will/would treat the disk, you're done. > You also need to make sure the BIOS-based boot blocks will get the same > real sector for the start of the BSD partition as BSD has in the > disktab, so the offset can be interpreted, first by the BIOS-based > second stage boot to load the kernel, and second, to calculate the > real sector offset in BSD for the C/H/S value in the partition table, > which must be interpreted by protected mode code. This is simply all part of synchronizing your tables. I don't see any real problem here other than education and debugging. Frankly, worrying about the "C:H:S" numbers isn't really necessary for booting an OS you have control over. There are ways around it (my bootloader gets around it, for example). The main problem is addressable area. > There are also issues like linear translation (sector c*H*S + h*S + s > is abosolute sector AS), Any controller/partitioning scheme that works with DOS uses the "standard" linear translation. DOS's boot sector does, and so does any controller that has to switch to linear mode when a fancy driver takes over. Only the single-block first stage/MBR blocks even use C:H:S addressing in "raw" form. All the rest translate to linear already (in my bootloader, I simply do it at all stages, thereby getting rid of the nagging issue of the particular geometry in question). This pretty much proves that if it's scrambled using the BIOS interface, it'll be scrambled in the same way with any other interface (since they *must* track each other) !! > offset linear translation (OnTrack LBA MBR's > offsets all addresses through INT 13 by -64 sectors; other LBA MBR's > offset by 1 Cylinder, or whatever, etc.), and non-linear translation > (sector sparing in the BIOS, such that DOS partitions are unusable, > like WD1007 controllers with J8 J14). Etc.. I think we all agree that the OnTrack folks should be shot. There really is no solution is general to this kind of thing. -- Erich Stefan Boleyn \_ E-mail (preferred): Mad Genius wanna-be, CyberMuffin \__ (finger me for other stats) Web: http://www.uruk.org/~erich/ Motto: "I'll live forever or die trying" This is my home system, so I'm speaking only for myself, not for Intel. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 20:26:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA02611 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 20:26:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from umin.u-tokyo.ac.jp (cc.umin.u-tokyo.ac.jp [130.69.92.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA02604 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 20:26:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kaihara.umin.u-tokyo.ac.jp (pc231.hcc.h.u-tokyo.ac.jp [130.69.114.231]) by umin.u-tokyo.ac.jp (8.6.13+2.5Wb7/3.4W2) with SMTP id MAA00677 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 12:22:45 +0900 Message-Id: <9605220327.AA00012@kaihara.umin.u-tokyo.ac.jp> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 12:27:00 +0900 From: Yamakami Hiroshi To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Can not recognize FMV-181 card MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AL-Mail 1.20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dear developpers, help me! I use the 2.1 (CDROM version; ISBN 1-57176-079-2). As hardware documentation this version might support Fujitsu FM-181 network card but the Kernel says "fe0 not found at 0X240" on booting. Why and what should I do ? In MYKERNEL, I add the following line; device fe0 at isa? port 0x240 net irq ? vector feintr When 'ls' command executes, the following message appears. fdc 0x3f0 6 2 0x0 0 0 0 yes wdc0 0x1f0 14 -1 0x0 0 0 0 yes matcdc0 0x230 -1 -1 0x0 0 0 0 yes sc0 0x60 1 -1 0x0 0 0 0 yes psm0 0x60 12 -1 0x0 0 0 0 yes sio 0x3f8 4 -1 0x0 0 0 0 yes lpt0 0xffffffff 7 -1 0x0 0 0 0 yes fe0 0x240 -1 -1 0x0 0 0 0 yes npx0 0xf0 13 -1 0x0 0 0 0 yes thanks and best regards, Hiroshi Yamakami -------------------------------- $B;3>e!!9@;V(J (Yamakami Hiroshi) yamakami-tky@umin.u-tokyo.ac.jp From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 20:32:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA03228 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 20:32:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA03164 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 20:32:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA03065; Tue, 21 May 1996 20:26:44 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605220326.UAA03065@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: BIOS Disk setup (was -> Re: Glitch in install procedure.) To: erich@uruk.org Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 20:26:44 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605220308.UAA14803@uruk.org> from "erich@uruk.org" at May 21, 96 08:08:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > If you get all of the disks, and compare them for uniqueness so that you > > have a fully populated interference graph, then you can. This might > > take some time to do if you have identical data on a lot of select blocks > > on a lot of disks. But it *is* doable. > > I agree that statistically, this is highly likely to work. I'm worried > about the degenerate cases. Duplicated disks using 'dd'? I would think "last mounted" might be enough. I guess only a strange person would do this -- maybe why they are called "degenerate" cases? ;-). > You didn't really respond about the same topic, though. I was curious > about how the manufacturers figure out which BIOS drive number corresponds > to their own disk with their higher-performance/functionality drivers > when transparently replacing the BIOS service without disturbing the > other drives. I think this is also somewhat relevant to the next section. I Think they do it by knowing that there will be in the BIOS chain some place and providing a directed reference for the entry so they can replace the thing wholesale without distrubing anything that refers to it. > Well, at least if it works, it would be a known mechanism. The statistical > probe strikes me as a kind of shot in the dark, since you really can have > duplicated disks, for example... or zeroed disks. You'd have to allow > for failure of the probe. Yeah; worst case is identical controllers with zeroed identical disks with probe order the reverse of POST order. But then, do you really care which disk you get? 8-). > > Clever. But dies in the face of SCSI + IDE in the same machine. 8-(. > > I was simply referring to the fact that this is how you can identify > IDE devices. SCSI still needs the more general-purpose solution we're > haggling over above. 8-). > > > You could use the INT 21 raw read and a knowledge of partition tables > > coupled with INT 13 physical raw reads to identify which logical drives > > are on which disks, etc.. This is basically what Win95 does during > > its switch to protected mode. > > Huh? You never need to work with the "INT 21" stuff (isn't this also > installed by DOS... I'm talking about raw BIOS services). AFAIK it is > completely determinable from the physical raw interface (INT 13 -based) > plus knowing partition tables. Well, I was thinking of using partition contents as secondary indicators for which drive is which. For all the normal FS's, there's an incept date in the first 512 bytes of data on the drive. > > You have to know the BIOS geometry to be able to create legal partitions; > > for instance, the OS/2 boot manager is picky about cylinder boundries. > > Well, if you know how the controller will/would treat the disk, you're > done. I'm not sure; unless you hard-coded ll of the non-linear transaltions into the geometry detection from BIOS. I don't think the WD1007 (a popular controller, so it's a good example) has been sufficiently documented to predictively spare the same way using a protected mode driver. 8-(. > > You also need to make sure the BIOS-based boot blocks will get the same > > real sector for the start of the BSD partition as BSD has in the > > disktab, so the offset can be interpreted, first by the BIOS-based > > second stage boot to load the kernel, and second, to calculate the > > real sector offset in BSD for the C/H/S value in the partition table, > > which must be interpreted by protected mode code. > > This is simply all part of synchronizing your tables. I don't see any > real problem here other than education and debugging. Yep. > Frankly, worrying about the "C:H:S" numbers isn't really necessary for > booting an OS you have control over. There are ways around it (my > bootloader gets around it, for example). The main problem is addressable > area. This assumes (I think) that you will run "dedicated" disks, right? > > There are also issues like linear translation (sector c*H*S + h*S + s > > is abosolute sector AS), > > Any controller/partitioning scheme that works with DOS uses the "standard" > linear translation. DOS's boot sector does, and so does any controller > that has to switch to linear mode when a fancy driver takes over. Only > the single-block first stage/MBR blocks even use C:H:S addressing in > "raw" form. All the rest translate to linear already (in my bootloader, > I simply do it at all stages, thereby getting rid of the nagging issue > of the particular geometry in question). > > This pretty much proves that if it's scrambled using the BIOS interface, > it'll be scrambled in the same way with any other interface (since they > *must* track each other) !! Well, at least that way, you fail up front... unless you guess wrong and start writing your BSD partition into the middle of the DOS partition somewhere when you boot from the BSD boot disk. You would probably need to write the boot disk as two stage instead of one stage, as well... that *might* do it for an up-front fail. > > offset linear translation (OnTrack LBA MBR's > > offsets all addresses through INT 13 by -64 sectors; other LBA MBR's > > offset by 1 Cylinder, or whatever, etc.), and non-linear translation > > (sector sparing in the BIOS, such that DOS partitions are unusable, > > like WD1007 controllers with J8 J14). Etc.. > > I think we all agree that the OnTrack folks should be shot. There really > is no solution is general to this kind of thing. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 20:52:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA06001 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 20:52:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA05990 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 20:52:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.transsys.com (localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.transsys.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA06914; Tue, 21 May 1996 23:51:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605220351.XAA06914@whizzo.transsys.com> X-Authentication-Warning: whizzo.transsys.com: Host localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: SMC Ultra References: <199605212225.PAA00926@rah.star-gate.com> In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 May 1996 15:25:29 PDT." <199605212225.PAA00926@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 23:51:53 -0400 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk You ought to be able to get two 10Base-T (and likely 100Base-TX) ethernet hosts to talk to each other if you build a "null" or "cross-over" cable to connect the two together. The wires in question are: 1 & 2 (one pair) 3 & 6 (the other pair) which should be swapped on the other connector. That is 1&2 should be wired to 3&6 on the other connector, and vice-versa. louie From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 20:55:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA06383 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 20:55:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA06370 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 20:55:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.transsys.com (localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.transsys.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA06952; Tue, 21 May 1996 23:55:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605220355.XAA06952@whizzo.transsys.com> X-Authentication-Warning: whizzo.transsys.com: Host localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: direct ethernet interface? References: <199605212213.PAA00823@rah.star-gate.com> In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 May 1996 15:13:58 PDT." <199605212213.PAA00823@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 23:55:22 -0400 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is there an easy way for me to send packets to a ethernet interface? Certainly the easiest way is to use one of the supported higher level protocols. If you need to generate ethernet frames for some random ethernet/IEEE 802.3 protocol, then you ought to look at perhaps using bpf(4) as a way to send packets. According to the man page, this is supported on ethernet and slip interfaces. I believe there's also a way to do this with raw sockets. > On VMS, we had the capability of issuing a qio to the ethernet interface so > I am wondering if we have an ioctl or something that would allow me > to talk the ethernet interface. Any more details on the sort of traffic you're trying to generate? That might help narrow down a good approach to puruse. louie From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 21:04:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA07489 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 21:04:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA07479 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 21:04:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA01760; Wed, 22 May 1996 13:48:07 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605220418.NAA01760@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Socket library question To: stevenf@thetics.europa.com (Steven Frank) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 13:48:07 +0930 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Steven Frank" at May 21, 96 07:55:18 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Steven Frank stands accused of saying: > > The sleep in question that is not getting woken up is in the sbwait() > function in kern/uipc_socket2.c. It waits on the sb_cc field of the > receiving socket buffer. (So it should continue when more network data > comes in, I assume.) More data is coming in, but the sleep is not broken. I'd start by tracing your sleep/wake activity to make sure that the wakeup is actually happening. In sbwait() make sure that SB_WAIT is not set in sb_flags before you set it (you may already be waiting on the socket buf), then check that sowakeup is called when more data arrives for the socket. > > You may have missed the code that's responsible for the appropriate wakeup. > > I am fairly sure the wakeup is in there, but it is most likely being > blocked from execution somehow. If you're pushing datagrams in from the bottom end using PPP I would normally expect that the wakeup would be called as required... > I should clarify this point, actually... The code I used for the > base socket library and TCP stack is the "bsd-sources" located on > munnari.oz.au. The PPP interface came from NetBSD 1.1. So, Hmm, dare I ask why you didn't just grab it all from one place? It's concievable (but unlikely) that the NetBSD ppp code has been bent to work with some other NetBSD mod that is canting your port. I don't know, not being a NetBSD guru. > Thanks for the help. Hope my explanation wasn't too muddled. :) Not at all. Best of luck! -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 21:53:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA14842 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 21:53:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA14825 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 21:53:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA02122; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:36:35 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605220506.OAA02122@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: direct ethernet interface? To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 14:36:35 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199605212213.PAA00823@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at May 21, 96 03:13:58 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty Jr. stands accused of saying: > > Is there an easy way for me to send packets to a ethernet interface? 'man bpf' > Amancio -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 22:22:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA16842 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 22:22:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA16809; Tue, 21 May 1996 22:22:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA10571; Wed, 22 May 1996 15:16:44 +1000 Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 15:16:44 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199605220516.PAA10571@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: ken@stox.pr.mcs.net, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl Subject: Re: HSM for FreeBSD?, was Re: Who wants a DPT SCSI controller driver? Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, taob@io.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >OK, disklabel and newfs. 1 hour and 20 minutes later I had this 28+ Gb >filesystem... Only problem sofar: 'df' reports a negative 'avail' number. >Percentage is also -0% (noi typo). I'll try to find out why this happens. >Any known problems with disks this big? /bin/df and FFS's statfs() have cosmetic bugs in 2.1R. This was fixed on 1996/01/14 in -current. -stable is still broken. Sigh. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 22:37:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA17886 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 22:37:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA17881 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 22:37:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA00689; Tue, 21 May 1996 22:36:49 -0700 Message-Id: <199605220536.WAA00689@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Michael Smith cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: direct ethernet interface? & Smc Ultra In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 May 1996 14:36:35 +0930." <199605220506.OAA02122@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 22:36:49 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk To Michael and to all who responded to my distress call: Tnks A Lot !! Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 22:45:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA18545 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 22:45:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lynx.its.unimelb.edu.au (lynx.its.unimelb.EDU.AU [128.250.20.151]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA18537 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 22:45:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from danny@localhost) by lynx.its.unimelb.edu.au (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA17957; Wed, 22 May 1996 15:43:04 +1000 Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 15:43:01 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: SMC Ultra In-Reply-To: <199605212225.PAA00926@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk y On Tue, 21 May 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > I have a two computers here and I am thinking about connecting them > using SMC's Ultra . My question is simple if I connect the > two SMC's Ultra directly with a UTP cable will I be able to get > 100MB/sec? Or will I have to get a fancy hub. You need the UTP equivalent of a null modem cable. Put the RJ connector on backwards on one end. Danny From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 23:15:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA20076 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 23:15:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA20071; Tue, 21 May 1996 23:15:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA18475; Tue, 21 May 1996 23:15:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605220615.XAA18475@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Gary Palmer" cc: Gary Aitken , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freebsd.org, Wilson Liaw , tgiannelli@applix.com Subject: Re: Anyone interested in the following? In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 21 May 96 23:30:23 +0100. <8747.832717823@palmer.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 23:15:00 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Gary Aitken wrote in message ID ><31A23AA7.597D@ics.com>: >> email: >> Netscape 3.0 >Netscape is not an e-mail package, and I would never thing of classing >it as such. If you want to be strict in your continued comparisons to >Windows type applications, MS Mail or something would be more >appropriate And, if you want to be current, Microsoft Exchange, not MS Mail. Also, maybe Lotus CC:Mail as a counter-point. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 21 23:16:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA20215 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 May 1996 23:16:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.54]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA20210 for ; Tue, 21 May 1996 23:16:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from kargl@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA07591 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Tue, 21 May 1996 23:16:48 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven G. Kargl" Message-Id: <199605220616.XAA07591@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Potential f77 bugs To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD Hackers) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 23:16:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hackers, I've been looking at the current implementation of the f77 wrapper utility for the f2c+gcc combo, and I've discovered some potential bugs with the way options are handled. (Actually, J Wunsch pointed out the inconsistencies.) According to the source (see gcc.c), the -onetrip f2c option should be honored. Thus, %f77 -onetrip file.f should cause DO loops to be executed at least once. However, you end up with an a.out file named netrip. Other problems involve the -kr and -krd f2c options. %gcc -kr file.c %gcc -krd file.c work without reporting that the -k[] option is not valid for a C file compilation. The language specification for Fortran within gcc.c is quite bogus. Thus, I have written a new f77 wrapper utility that handles the f2c and gcc options. Additionally, I have written a short man page describing the new f77 utility. It should be noted that my f77 command does not currently support all f2c and gcc options (many don't make sense to use). If there is interest, I will submit a GNAT report with an 8k+ uuencode, gzipped tar file. -- Steve Permission is hereby granted to forward this message in its entirety to whomever you like unless I explicitly state that the content is confidential. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 00:01:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA23131 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 00:01:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA23124 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 00:01:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA14431; Wed, 22 May 1996 16:56:46 +1000 Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:56:46 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199605220656.QAA14431@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: erich@uruk.org, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: Glitch in install procedure. Cc: dutchman@spase.nl, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> [sysinstall issueing a warning if /kernel will be unreadable by the bootstrap] >> Question: in order to warn you if absolute sector X is past cylinder >> 1024, it needs to: ^^^^ has some sectors on a cylinder >= 1024, i.e., "past cylinder 1023" >> >> X%(H*S) Remainder is H/S value >> X/(H*S) Integer value is cylinder Problem: in order to warn you if file /kernel is partly above cylinder 1023, sysinstall first needs to know the absolute sector numbers for all the sectors in the file. It has no standard way of knowing, For lfs it could probably use the undocumented lfs_bmapv() syscall, but there is no bmap syscall for ufs. >> So if it doesn't know the C/H/S geometry (sure, we can guess that >> the BIOS geometry is the Adpatec geometry, but we need to be >> prepared when it isn't), how can we say "cylinder past 1024"? Sysinstall must know the H/S geometry, at least for the initial installation of FreeBSD on a non-dedicated disk, since the geometry is used to initialize the partition table. >> The only way to know the BIOS C/H/S values for sure is to ask the >> BIOS. More precisely, the only way to know what the _current_ BIOS C/H/S values are is to ask the BIOS. Sysinstall needs to know the H/S geometry that the BIOS will use later when the system is booted. This is not necessarily the same as the H/S geometry that was used for the last boot. E.g., if an empty SCSI disk is being configured, it will initially have some fixed BIOS default, e.g., the "Adaptec geometry" H=64/S=32. Then when you write the the partition table with a more convenient geometry, e.g. H=255/S=63, the BIOS should default to what's in the partition table (255/63) on the next boot. >Maybe I'm missing something, but: > 1) FreeBSD already gets the BIOS geometry of hard disks from it's > normal bootloader. It only gets the geometries for disks supported by the BIOS, and it indexes the geometries by the BIOS drive numbers. > 2) Can't you just make a "BIOS query" hunk of patch code, copy it > down into the first 1MB of RAM, and run it to produce your > BIOS geometry ? It isn't easy, and doesn't provide any information that couldn't be provided at boot time. There are also some configuration bootstrap problems. At least one reboot would be required to check that the expected geometries are actually used. Lots of code would be required to backtrack... >BTW: I'm looking for ways to safely add LBA (much greater than 8GB > limit) support to my bootloader. It currently is not dependent > on particular BIOS geometries, just the limit of the maximum > addressable area. This would be another reason for sysinstall not to warn. Sysinstall knows very little about the capabilities of boot loaders, especially furture ones. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 00:19:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA24489 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 00:19:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA24482 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 00:19:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id JAA17196 ; Wed, 22 May 1996 09:18:53 +0200 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id JAA04771 ; Wed, 22 May 1996 09:18:53 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.5/keltia-uucp-2.7) id JAA13228; Wed, 22 May 1996 09:02:47 +0200 (MET DST) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199605220702.JAA13228@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: SMC Ultra To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 09:02:46 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605212225.PAA00926@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at "May 21, 96 03:25:29 pm" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1983 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL16 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Amancio Hasty Jr. said: > I have a two computers here and I am thinking about connecting them > using SMC's Ultra . My question is simple if I connect the > two SMC's Ultra directly with a UTP cable will I be able to get > 100MB/sec? Or will I have to get a fancy hub. I think you can do without a hub. Just take a cable with crossed wires. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #2: Fri May 10 21:09:14 MET DST 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 00:20:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA24676 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 00:20:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA24541; Wed, 22 May 1996 00:19:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id JAA17218 ; Wed, 22 May 1996 09:19:08 +0200 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id JAA04777 ; Wed, 22 May 1996 09:19:07 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.5/keltia-uucp-2.7) id JAA13248; Wed, 22 May 1996 09:04:53 +0200 (MET DST) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199605220704.JAA13248@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: Anyone interested in the following? To: gpalmer@freebsd.org (Gary Palmer) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 09:04:53 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: garya@ics.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org, macgyver@infinet.com, tgiannelli@applix.com In-Reply-To: <8747.832717823@palmer.demon.co.uk> from Gary Palmer at "May 21, 96 11:30:23 pm" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1983 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL16 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Gary Palmer said: > it as such. If you want to be strict in your continued comparisons to > Windows type applications, MS Mail or something would be more > appropriate A fait comparison would be Z-mail or Eudora. I've used Z-mail (on SunOS) and was pretty happy with it. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #2: Fri May 10 21:09:14 MET DST 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 00:20:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA24718 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 00:20:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA24683; Wed, 22 May 1996 00:20:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id JAA17214 ; Wed, 22 May 1996 09:19:07 +0200 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id JAA04774 ; Wed, 22 May 1996 09:18:53 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.5/keltia-uucp-2.7) id JAA13238; Wed, 22 May 1996 09:03:57 +0200 (MET DST) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199605220703.JAA13238@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: Anyone interested in the following? To: gpalmer@freebsd.org (Gary Palmer) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 09:03:57 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: garya@ics.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org, macgyver@infinet.com, tgiannelli@applix.com In-Reply-To: <8747.832717823@palmer.demon.co.uk> from Gary Palmer at "May 21, 96 11:30:23 pm" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1983 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL16 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Gary Palmer said: > Netscape is not an e-mail package, and I would never thing of classing > it as such. If you want to be strict in your continued comparisons to I agree with that. > Windows type applications, MS Mail or something would be more MS-Fail ?? Don't talk about MS-Fail, it is utterly broken in almost every RFC-822 respects... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #2: Fri May 10 21:09:14 MET DST 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 01:41:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA29653 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 01:41:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA29647 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 01:41:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA00390 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 01:41:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199605220841.BAA00390@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Apollo Pro chipset? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 01:41:41 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk http://www.via.com.tw/APRO.htm Hi, I ran into this chipset in usenet . It looks good at least from the specs. It supports multiple P6s, 1GiG of main memory, USB..., etc... So I am wondering if anyone has a system based on the Apollo Pro and how well does it work? Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 02:28:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA05566 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 02:28:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA05551 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 02:28:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA05355; Wed, 22 May 1996 02:22:43 -0700 (PDT) To: Bruce Evans cc: erich@uruk.org, terry@lambert.org, dutchman@spase.nl, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Glitch in install procedure. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 May 1996 16:56:46 +1000." <199605220656.QAA14431@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 02:22:43 -0700 Message-ID: <5353.832756963@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This would be another reason for sysinstall not to warn. Sysinstall > knows very little about the capabilities of boot loaders, especially > furture ones. Well, I added the geometry warning by popular request, I can just as easily remove it for the same reason. :-) Is there general agreement that the geometry warning is bogus? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 02:44:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA07703 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 02:44:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fire.dkrz.de (fire.dkrz.de [136.172.110.250]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA07263 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 02:40:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from racer.dkrz.de (racer.dkrz.de [136.172.110.55]) by fire.dkrz.de (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA10584 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 11:40:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from gwk@localhost) by racer.dkrz.de (8.7.4/8.7.3) id LAA01849; Wed, 22 May 1996 11:39:09 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 11:39:09 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199605220939.LAA01849@racer.dkrz.de> From: "Georg-W. Koltermann" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 960501-SNAP: data corruption reading /dev/rwt0 (Wangtek) X-Attribution: gwk Reply-to: gwk@cray.com Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The details are still a bit fuzzy, but maybe someone has seen this already and can give me a hint before I spend countless hours of hunting. Here is what I see: I got an old Wangtek QIC-150 tape device a couple of weeks ago, while still running 2.1.0-RELEASE on my old (386DX/40, 8MB) machine. It seemed to work flawlessly. One week ago I got a new PC (586/100, 32MB, ASUS T2P4), and tried to install 960501-SNAP from tape. Turned out most of the files read from tape were corrupted, so the installation would abort after unpacking one or two files of the first dist. I switched to the shell on VT4 and tried to untar the tape manually, then cat | zcat | cpio -itv to check if I could read the pieces. The tar finished without an error indication, but typically the zcat would abort readily, so I could only list a few files from the archive. I untarred the same tape a couple of times, trying different block sizes on the tar command. Eventually (using a blocking count of 16) I could read the tape without corruption, and could install the snap. Now with the snap loaded and running flawlessly, I want to read my backups from tape (cpio -H crc format), but again I am getting data corruption. When I look at the files extracted, they look fine up to a certain point where they just contain binary zeroes. I have again played with different block sizes for reading the tape, but this time I cannot find a block size that works. Different block sizes do move the point of corruption within the archive, however, so I can be quite sure the tape was written o. k.. Any ideas? Georg From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 03:14:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA12543 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 03:14:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA12502 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 03:14:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id MAA26507; Wed, 22 May 1996 12:12:54 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id MAA15633; Wed, 22 May 1996 12:12:43 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id LAA13569; Wed, 22 May 1996 11:31:54 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605220931.LAA13569@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... (fwd) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 11:31:53 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: angio@aros.net (Dave Andersen) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605210844.CAA06949@terra.aros.net> from Dave Andersen at "May 21, 96 02:44:24 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Dave Andersen wrote: > I'm not sure. What might be nice is nuking the sysinstall cruft from > /stand, but keeping the statically linked binaries necessary for life, j@uriah 109% ls -l /stand/sysinstall -rwxr-xr-x 7 root wheel 462848 Feb 25 1995 /stand/sysinstall* ^ ...so it doesn't make much sense to remove (i.e., ``unlink'') sysinstall. All you gain by it is a directory slot for /stand. :) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 03:15:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA12706 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 03:15:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA12616 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 03:14:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id MAA26498; Wed, 22 May 1996 12:12:42 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id MAA15631; Wed, 22 May 1996 12:12:40 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id LAA13485; Wed, 22 May 1996 11:27:39 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605220927.LAA13485@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Can not recognize FMV-181 card To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 11:27:38 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: yamakami-tky@umin.u-tokyo.ac.jp (Yamakami Hiroshi) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <9605220327.AA00012@kaihara.umin.u-tokyo.ac.jp> from Yamakami Hiroshi at "May 22, 96 12:27:00 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Yamakami Hiroshi wrote: [Charset iso-2022-jp unsupported, skipping...] ick... my elm has problems with iso-2022... Anyway, i don't know about anybody offhand who owns such a card, it seems that they are only known in Japan? The driver source claims that: * Device driver for Fujitsu MB86960A/MB86965A based Ethernet cards. * To be used with FreeBSD 2.x * Contributed by M. Sekiguchi. ...is the author of the driver, so perhaps you might get in contact with him? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 03:16:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA13020 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 03:16:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA12915 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 03:15:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id MAA26641; Wed, 22 May 1996 12:14:23 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id MAA15663; Wed, 22 May 1996 12:14:22 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id MAA14098; Wed, 22 May 1996 12:00:38 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605221000.MAA14098@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: samba, cannot bind To: garya@ics.com (Gary Aitken) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 12:00:38 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <31A1C967.5BFB@ics.com> from Gary Aitken at "May 21, 96 07:47:19 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Gary Aitken wrote: > When I try to run samba, I get the log message: > > 05/19/96 23:21:13 loaded services > 05/19/96 23:21:13 becoming a daemon > ===> bind failed on port 139 > Closing connections > 05/19/96 23:21:13 Server exit (normal exit) Anything else already listening on port 139? Look at the output of ``netstat -an''. (Have you accidentally enabled port 139 in inetd.conf?) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 03:16:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA13112 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 03:16:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA12893 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 03:15:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id MAA26625; Wed, 22 May 1996 12:14:17 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id MAA15660; Wed, 22 May 1996 12:14:15 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id LAA13889; Wed, 22 May 1996 11:46:15 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605220946.LAA13889@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Hi again: PD optical drives To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 11:46:15 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at (Hr.Ladavac) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605210758.AA156475487@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at> from "Hr.Ladavac" at "May 21, 96 09:58:06 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Hr.Ladavac wrote: > It's been a while. > > BTW, did anyone have a go at the PD opticals? What is it? I've got an MO drive working with the `od' driver, in case this is what you mean. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 03:50:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA16858 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 03:50:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy.siemens.at (proxy.siemens.at [192.138.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA16794 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 03:49:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sol1.gud.siemens.co.at (sol-f.gud.siemens-austria) by proxy.siemens.at with SMTP id AA26689 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 22 May 1996 12:48:20 +0200 Received: from ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at by sol1.gud.siemens.co.at with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #7 for ) id m0uMBSj-00020CC; Wed, 22 May 96 12:48 MET DST Received: by ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at (1.37.109.16/1.37) id AA188851902; Wed, 22 May 1996 12:45:02 +0200 From: "Hr.Ladavac" Message-Id: <199605221045.AA188851902@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at> Subject: Re: Hi again: PD optical drives To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 12:45:02 +0200 (MESZ) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at In-Reply-To: <199605220946.LAA13889@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at May 22, 96 11:46:15 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "In his e-mail J Wunsch wrote:" > As Hr.Ladavac wrote: > > It's been a while. > > > > BTW, did anyone have a go at the PD opticals? > > What is it? > > I've got an MO drive working with the `od' driver, in case this is > what you mean. A relatively new "Phase Change" technology. Somewhat similar to MO, but not quite - a rewritable purely optical. `od' driver could be interesting as a start, but these things combine a SCSI CD-ROM reader on one LUN, and a Removable Media on another (not at the same time, though.) They seem to be an interesting backup media (slow at writing, but 4x speed at reading) and should be capable of being bootable - even though I did not manage to achieve that with ASUS built in NCR bios. Since I have one, I will probably look into getting it to run under FreeBSD. Too bad I don't know much about SCSI programming. BTW, one of these devices goes for ~400 USD, and media is 30 - 50 USD (650 MB, formatted). /Marino > > -- > cheers, J"org > > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE > Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 04:40:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA20670 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 04:40:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA20665 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 04:40:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id GAA22715; Wed, 22 May 1996 06:39:05 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199605221139.GAA22715@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: SMC Ultra To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 06:39:05 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605220702.JAA13228@keltia.freenix.fr> from "Ollivier Robert" at May 22, 96 09:02:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It seems that Amancio Hasty Jr. said: > > I have a two computers here and I am thinking about connecting them > > using SMC's Ultra . My question is simple if I connect the > > two SMC's Ultra directly with a UTP cable will I be able to get > > 100MB/sec? Or will I have to get a fancy hub. > > I think you can do without a hub. Just take a cable with crossed wires. SMC Ultra's, as far as I am aware, are 10Mbps cards. At least, all of mine are. :-) You can trivially connect these with a crossover cable. SMC EtherPower 10/100's (PCI) are 10Mbps/100Mbps cards. I believe you may be able to connect these with a crossover cable too, but I don't know for sure. There aren't any 1000Mbps (100MB/s) cards out yet, but there is a good chance that there will be a standard in the not too distant future, as it is being discussed by a number of major networking companies. In any case, the Ultras will not give you 100Mbps or 100MB/s :-) I wouldn't wanna see an ISA bus try to handle 100MB/s anyways. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 05:16:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA22744 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 05:16:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA22739 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 05:16:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA04592; Wed, 22 May 1996 22:00:22 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605221230.WAA04592@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: 960501-SNAP: data corruption reading /dev/rwt0 (Wangtek) To: gwk@cray.com Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 22:00:21 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605220939.LAA01849@racer.dkrz.de> from "Georg-W. Koltermann" at May 22, 96 11:39:09 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Georg-W. Koltermann stands accused of saying: > > The details are still a bit fuzzy, but maybe someone has seen this > already and can give me a hint before I spend countless hours of > hunting. Here is what I see: Sorry, no 8( > I got an old Wangtek QIC-150 tape device a couple of weeks ago, while > still running 2.1.0-RELEASE on my old (386DX/40, 8MB) machine. It > seemed to work flawlessly. > > One week ago I got a new PC (586/100, 32MB, ASUS T2P4), and tried to > install 960501-SNAP from tape. Turned out most of the files read from > tape were corrupted, so the installation would abort after unpacking > one or two files of the first dist. I switched to the shell on VT4 > and tried to untar the tape manually, then cat | zcat | cpio -itv to > check if I could read the pieces. The tar finished without an error > indication, but typically the zcat would abort readily, so I could > only list a few files from the archive. > > I untarred the same tape a couple of times, trying different block > sizes on the tar command. Eventually (using a blocking count of 16) I > could read the tape without corruption, and could install the snap. This sounds like the interface card isn't talking to the rest of the system very well. Have you tried fiddling with the ISA bus timing? Try increasing the back-to-back IO delay, 8- and 16-bit I/O waitstates, 8- and 16-bit DMA waitstates, etc., anything at all related to timing on the ISA bus. Also make sure the ISA bus clock is around 8MHz. > Now with the snap loaded and running flawlessly, I want to read my > backups from tape (cpio -H crc format), but again I am getting data > corruption. When I look at the files extracted, they look fine up to > a certain point where they just contain binary zeroes. I have again This sounds horribly like it's something getting out of sync. > Any ideas? Put the tape drive back on the 386 and use rmt to talk to it 8) > Georg -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 05:33:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA23257 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 05:33:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gamma.qmw.ac.uk (gamma.qmw.ac.uk [138.37.6.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA23237 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 05:32:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from canary.dcs.qmw.ac.uk by gamma.qmw.ac.uk with SMTP-QMW with ESMTP; Wed, 22 May 1996 13:32:01 +0100 Received: from md@ruby.dcs.qmw.ac.uk [192.135.231.243] by canary.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (8.7.5/QMW-server-2.8s+SMS) with ESMTP; poster "Mark Dawson "; id NAA19741; Wed, 22 May 1996 13:31:36 +0100 (BST) Received: locally by ruby.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (8.7.5/QMW-client-3.2b); poster "md"; id NAA15035; Wed, 22 May 1996 13:31:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.ruby.cs.qmw.ac.uk.sun4.41 via MS.5.6.ruby.cs.qmw.ac.uk.sun4_41; Wed, 22 May 1996 13:31:28 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 13:31:28 +0100 (BST) From: Mark Dawson To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Compaq SMART-2 RAID controller Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is anyone else evaluating Compaq's new SMART-2 Array (RAID) controller? (http://www-es.compaq.com/cgi-bin/p/productinfo/options/mass_storage/smart2arra y.qs.html) If you are and would like to collaborate on/test a FreeBSD driver please get in touch. Mark From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 05:58:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA24551 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 05:58:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netcom21.netcom.com (rsi@netcom21.netcom.com [192.100.81.135]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA24544 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 05:58:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rsi@localhost) by netcom21.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id FAA12552; Wed, 22 May 1996 05:58:26 -0700 Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 05:58:26 -0700 From: rsi@netcom.com (Rajappa Iyer) Message-Id: <199605221258.FAA12552@netcom21.netcom.com> To: Chetsky , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Anyone interested in the following? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Path: netcom.com!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uuneo.neosoft.com!bonkers!not-for-mail >From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" >Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.announce >Subject: Anyone interested in the following? >Date: 21 May 1996 15:18:13 -0500 >Organization: FreeBSD Project >Lines: 92 >Sender: daemon@taronga.com >Approved: peter@taronga.com >Message-ID: <4nt8e5$f62@bonkers.taronga.com> >NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.taronga.com >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----- =_aaaaaaaaaa" ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa To: Chetsky , hackers@freebsd.org cc: Wilson Liaw , tgiannelli@applix.com Subject: Anyone interested in the following? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 May 1996 15:01:25 EDT." <199605201901.PAA09980@user2.infinet.com> Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 13:20:51 -0700 Message-ID: <2711.832710051@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Some of you may have seen the announcement for Applixware go by recently, a joint project between Applix and Red Hat Software to bring a full-featured desktop suite to Linux. To quote briefly from the announcement below: > Applix and Red Hat Software Announce Applixware for Red Hat Linux > ================================================================= > > Most popular and complete office suite for UNIX to be available for Linux. > > Westboro, MA, - Applix Inc. (NASDAQ: APLX) and Red Hat Software, Inc. > announced today the availability of Applix's Applixware(TM) suite of > office automation products for the Red Hat(TM) Linux operating system. > Under the terms of an agreement between Red Hat Software and Applix, > Red Hat Software will bundle Applixware version 4.2 with the > commercially available release 3.0.3 of Red Hat Linux. Also under the > terms of the this agreement Red Hat Software will distribute and > support the combined products. > > "We recognized a need in the Linux marketplace for high-performance > office automation tools" said Tony Giannelli, vice-president of > business development and marketing Applix Inc. "After an extensive > review, we chose Red Hat Software because we felt that Red Hat > provides the most complete platform for running Applixware on Linux." > > Applixware is the most popular and complete office automation suite > for UNIX(r) systems. Applixware for Red Hat Linux features fully > integrated graphical: > > o. spreadsheet, > o. word processing, > o. graphics, > o. presentation, > o. electronic mail, and > o. HTML authoring software. > > Applixware can be used to build integrated solutions on UNIX and now > Linux systems. The advanced Applix Builder rapid application > development environment is also included in the agreement. > > Applixware for Red Hat Linux will be available directly from Red Hat > Software and Linux resellers, early this summer. The suggested retail > price is $495.00 per user. Now, "what does all this have to do with me?" you may ask. Well, I've talked with Tony Giannelli about bring the Applix suite (see http://www.applix.com) to FreeBSD and he naturally would like to see some numbers for the potential size of the FreeBSD market before deciding whether or not to make the investment of porting, testing and marketing their products there. That's where you come in. If you'd like to see the Applixware desktop available for FreeBSD and would buy a copy were it available (I assume that pricing would be similar to that of the Red Hat product), please send mail to: Tony Giannelli And let him know. He'll tally up the requests and try to decide whether or not a strong market case for a FreeBSD product can be made at this time. I've heard many of you crying out for spreadsheets, word processors and the like for FreeBSD for several years now, well, here's your chance to try and do something about it! If we don't take the time to make our desires known then ISVs certainly aren't going to take time to port their software to our operating system and so, if you've a genuine interest in any of the above, please take a moment to let Tony know! Thanks.. Jordan ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa-- -- a.k.a. Rajappa Iyer. New York, New York. Live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 05:58:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA24563 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 05:58:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netcom21.netcom.com (rsi@netcom21.netcom.com [192.100.81.135]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA24550 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 05:58:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rsi@localhost) by netcom21.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id FAA12592; Wed, 22 May 1996 05:58:39 -0700 Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 05:58:39 -0700 From: rsi@netcom.com (Rajappa Iyer) Message-Id: <199605221258.FAA12592@netcom21.netcom.com> To: Bawa , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Anyone interested in the following? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Path: netcom.com!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uuneo.neosoft.com!bonkers!not-for-mail >From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" >Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.announce >Subject: Anyone interested in the following? >Date: 21 May 1996 15:18:13 -0500 >Organization: FreeBSD Project >Lines: 92 >Sender: daemon@taronga.com >Approved: peter@taronga.com >Message-ID: <4nt8e5$f62@bonkers.taronga.com> >NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.taronga.com >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----- =_aaaaaaaaaa" ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa To: Bawa , hackers@freebsd.org cc: Wilson Liaw , tgiannelli@applix.com Subject: Anyone interested in the following? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 May 1996 15:01:25 EDT." <199605201901.PAA09980@user2.infinet.com> Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 13:20:51 -0700 Message-ID: <2711.832710051@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Some of you may have seen the announcement for Applixware go by recently, a joint project between Applix and Red Hat Software to bring a full-featured desktop suite to Linux. To quote briefly from the announcement below: > Applix and Red Hat Software Announce Applixware for Red Hat Linux > ================================================================= > > Most popular and complete office suite for UNIX to be available for Linux. > > Westboro, MA, - Applix Inc. (NASDAQ: APLX) and Red Hat Software, Inc. > announced today the availability of Applix's Applixware(TM) suite of > office automation products for the Red Hat(TM) Linux operating system. > Under the terms of an agreement between Red Hat Software and Applix, > Red Hat Software will bundle Applixware version 4.2 with the > commercially available release 3.0.3 of Red Hat Linux. Also under the > terms of the this agreement Red Hat Software will distribute and > support the combined products. > > "We recognized a need in the Linux marketplace for high-performance > office automation tools" said Tony Giannelli, vice-president of > business development and marketing Applix Inc. "After an extensive > review, we chose Red Hat Software because we felt that Red Hat > provides the most complete platform for running Applixware on Linux." > > Applixware is the most popular and complete office automation suite > for UNIX(r) systems. Applixware for Red Hat Linux features fully > integrated graphical: > > o. spreadsheet, > o. word processing, > o. graphics, > o. presentation, > o. electronic mail, and > o. HTML authoring software. > > Applixware can be used to build integrated solutions on UNIX and now > Linux systems. The advanced Applix Builder rapid application > development environment is also included in the agreement. > > Applixware for Red Hat Linux will be available directly from Red Hat > Software and Linux resellers, early this summer. The suggested retail > price is $495.00 per user. Now, "what does all this have to do with me?" you may ask. Well, I've talked with Tony Giannelli about bring the Applix suite (see http://www.applix.com) to FreeBSD and he naturally would like to see some numbers for the potential size of the FreeBSD market before deciding whether or not to make the investment of porting, testing and marketing their products there. That's where you come in. If you'd like to see the Applixware desktop available for FreeBSD and would buy a copy were it available (I assume that pricing would be similar to that of the Red Hat product), please send mail to: Tony Giannelli And let him know. He'll tally up the requests and try to decide whether or not a strong market case for a FreeBSD product can be made at this time. I've heard many of you crying out for spreadsheets, word processors and the like for FreeBSD for several years now, well, here's your chance to try and do something about it! If we don't take the time to make our desires known then ISVs certainly aren't going to take time to port their software to our operating system and so, if you've a genuine interest in any of the above, please take a moment to let Tony know! Thanks.. Jordan ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa-- -- a.k.a. Rajappa Iyer. New York, New York. Live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 05:58:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA24595 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 05:58:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netcom21.netcom.com (rsi@netcom21.netcom.com [192.100.81.135]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA24534 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 05:58:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rsi@localhost) by netcom21.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id FAA12529; Wed, 22 May 1996 05:58:19 -0700 Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 05:58:19 -0700 From: rsi@netcom.com (Rajappa Iyer) Message-Id: <199605221258.FAA12529@netcom21.netcom.com> To: Ajay Shah , ShoeBum , JayDee , Panjoo , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Anyone interested in the following? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Path: netcom.com!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uuneo.neosoft.com!bonkers!not-for-mail >From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" >Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.announce >Subject: Anyone interested in the following? >Date: 21 May 1996 15:18:13 -0500 >Organization: FreeBSD Project >Lines: 92 >Sender: daemon@taronga.com >Approved: peter@taronga.com >Message-ID: <4nt8e5$f62@bonkers.taronga.com> >NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.taronga.com >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----- =_aaaaaaaaaa" ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa To: Ajay Shah , ShoeBum , JayDee , Panjoo , hackers@freebsd.org cc: Wilson Liaw , tgiannelli@applix.com Subject: Anyone interested in the following? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 May 1996 15:01:25 EDT." <199605201901.PAA09980@user2.infinet.com> Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 13:20:51 -0700 Message-ID: <2711.832710051@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Some of you may have seen the announcement for Applixware go by recently, a joint project between Applix and Red Hat Software to bring a full-featured desktop suite to Linux. To quote briefly from the announcement below: > Applix and Red Hat Software Announce Applixware for Red Hat Linux > ================================================================= > > Most popular and complete office suite for UNIX to be available for Linux. > > Westboro, MA, - Applix Inc. (NASDAQ: APLX) and Red Hat Software, Inc. > announced today the availability of Applix's Applixware(TM) suite of > office automation products for the Red Hat(TM) Linux operating system. > Under the terms of an agreement between Red Hat Software and Applix, > Red Hat Software will bundle Applixware version 4.2 with the > commercially available release 3.0.3 of Red Hat Linux. Also under the > terms of the this agreement Red Hat Software will distribute and > support the combined products. > > "We recognized a need in the Linux marketplace for high-performance > office automation tools" said Tony Giannelli, vice-president of > business development and marketing Applix Inc. "After an extensive > review, we chose Red Hat Software because we felt that Red Hat > provides the most complete platform for running Applixware on Linux." > > Applixware is the most popular and complete office automation suite > for UNIX(r) systems. Applixware for Red Hat Linux features fully > integrated graphical: > > o. spreadsheet, > o. word processing, > o. graphics, > o. presentation, > o. electronic mail, and > o. HTML authoring software. > > Applixware can be used to build integrated solutions on UNIX and now > Linux systems. The advanced Applix Builder rapid application > development environment is also included in the agreement. > > Applixware for Red Hat Linux will be available directly from Red Hat > Software and Linux resellers, early this summer. The suggested retail > price is $495.00 per user. Now, "what does all this have to do with me?" you may ask. Well, I've talked with Tony Giannelli about bring the Applix suite (see http://www.applix.com) to FreeBSD and he naturally would like to see some numbers for the potential size of the FreeBSD market before deciding whether or not to make the investment of porting, testing and marketing their products there. That's where you come in. If you'd like to see the Applixware desktop available for FreeBSD and would buy a copy were it available (I assume that pricing would be similar to that of the Red Hat product), please send mail to: Tony Giannelli And let him know. He'll tally up the requests and try to decide whether or not a strong market case for a FreeBSD product can be made at this time. I've heard many of you crying out for spreadsheets, word processors and the like for FreeBSD for several years now, well, here's your chance to try and do something about it! If we don't take the time to make our desires known then ISVs certainly aren't going to take time to port their software to our operating system and so, if you've a genuine interest in any of the above, please take a moment to let Tony know! Thanks.. Jordan ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa-- -- a.k.a. Rajappa Iyer. New York, New York. Live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 06:46:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA27374 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 06:46:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.NL.net (ns.NL.net [193.78.240.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA27347 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 06:46:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spase by ns.NL.net via EUnet id AA14107 (5.65b/CWI-3.3); Wed, 22 May 1996 15:05:18 +0200 Received: from phobos.spase.nl (phobos [192.9.200.238]) by mercurius.spase.nl (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id PAA17755 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 15:01:21 +0200 From: Kees Jan Koster Received: (dutchman@localhost) by phobos.spase.nl (8.6.12/8.6.11) id PAA00484 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 22 May 1996 15:02:15 +0200 Message-Id: <199605221302.PAA00484@phobos.spase.nl> Subject: Forgiving select() call. To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers Mailing list) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 15:02:14 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hoi Hackers, Consider the following excerpt from /sys/kern/sys_generic.c, from 2.1.0-release. Somewhere near line 550. This piece of code forgives programs that specify a too large `nd' value by setting it to a more acceptable value. ... if (uap->nd > p->p_fd->fd_nfiles) uap->nd = p->p_fd->fd_nfiles; /* forgiving; slightly wrong */ ... Out of curiosity I printed the process ID's of processes that were forgiven in this way. One of the biggest offenders was the X server %-). My questions: - shouldn't programs that are forgiven be patched to specify correct values? - If I were to hack my kernel to return EINVAL instead, would that be a correct (if pedantic) thing to do? - I noticed that EINVAL is also returned if (uap->nd > FD_SETSIZE), why is that not forgiven. Why does the select(2) manual page not mention this. I want to modify select(2) to return the `timeout left' as described in the BUGS section of the manual page. Any reason why I should not? I have only the 2.1.0-release source tree. Has select() been modified a lot since then? Groetjes, Kees Jan ======================================================================v== Kees Jan Koster e-mail: dutchman@spase.nl Van Somerenstraat 50 tel: NL-24-3234708 6521 BS Nijmegen the Netherlands ========================================================================= Who is this general Failure and why is he reading my disk? (anonymous) ========================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 06:58:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA27815 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 06:58:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from storm.dgii.com (storm.dgii.com [199.86.5.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA27810 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 06:58:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from keng@localhost) by storm.dgii.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) id IAA18570; Wed, 22 May 1996 08:55:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Ken Germann Message-Id: <199605221355.IAA18570@storm.dgii.com> Subject: IRC problem. To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 08:55:58 -0500 (CDT) Cc: john@starfire.mn.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am running an IRC server that I am finding can only accept 260 clients before it segment faults and dumps core. I've tried to change the FD_SETSIZE to a large number to get around this problem and it doesn't appear to work. When I set the FD_SETSIZE to 384, 512, or 1024 the server won't connect to the IRC network. There are a couple of other sites running FreeBSD 2.1 like I am that are running into the same problem. The problem doesn't appear to affect BSDI 2.1 or NetBSD. Any assistance with this problem would be appreciated. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 07:06:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA28176 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 07:06:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA28168 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 07:06:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id JAA22987; Wed, 22 May 1996 09:04:54 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199605221404.JAA22987@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Compaq SMART-2 RAID controller To: md@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Mark Dawson) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 09:04:53 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Mark Dawson" at May 22, 96 01:31:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is anyone else evaluating Compaq's new SMART-2 Array (RAID) controller? > > (http://www-es.compaq.com/cgi-bin/p/productinfo/options/mass_storage/smart2arra > y.qs.html) > > If you are and would like to collaborate on/test a FreeBSD driver please > get in touch. Hi, Sorry, no I don't have one and I'm not particularly into writing device drivers, BUT I did want to affirm that it would be particularly cool to have support for these types of controllers!!! I've been looking for anything that can accelerate read/write performance to SCSI disks for FreeBSD ;-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 07:27:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA29525 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 07:27:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA29515 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 07:27:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.7.5/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id XAA21311; Wed, 22 May 1996 23:26:51 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 23:26:51 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Terry Lambert cc: bsdi-users@bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU In-Reply-To: <199605202119.OAA28500@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 May 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > SDLComm has a new PCI card called the RISCom/Pri. Primary rate has 23 > > 64Kbps B-Channels. I wonder how many cards can be put into a P90 box > > running BSD Unix before the compression overloads the CPU? > > The RISC CPU you mean.. dunno. I still don't know if the card handle compression or not. I'm waiting for an answer. It will manage separate buffers in host RAM for each channel. It also uses a host buffer for control. If it doesn't do compression and the host has to do it, I wonder what the limits are when 23 64Kbps streams of compressed data are coming in? It would be cool to be able to put 2 of these cards into a PC and handle 46 incoming ISDN connections. The following is from http://www.sdlcomm.com/pri.htm... ---------------- LOW COST ISDN PRI ADAPTER FOR THE PCI BUS The RISCom/Pri is a low cost ISDN and Channelized T1/E1 Adapter for the PCI Bus featuring a modular full function T1 or E1 Interface. The RISCom/Pri is ideal for applications such as PC Based Multi-protocol Routers running such protocols as Primary Rate ISDN , Frame Relay, X.25 and PPP. 32-Bit PCI Bus Master The RISCom/Pri operates as a 32-bit direct PCI Bus Master managing a separate buffer for each HDLC stream directly in PC Host RAM. The PC Host configures and manages the PRI controller via a command buffer in PC Host RAM. Intelligent PRI Controller The key component on the RISCom/Pri card is the Multi-Channel HDLC (PRI) Controller which manages 24 or 32 separate HDLC streams of data which are presented by the T1 or E1 interface as (DS0s) time slots. For Primary Rate applications, the DS0s are organized as a single D channel plus 23B channels for T1 or 30B channels for E1. The PRI controller is configurable for managing groups of multiple DS0s (nx64Kbps) hence supporting bandwidths of nx64Kbps. ---------------------- > > How heavy is the computational load of something like STAC compression? > > As a percentage of CPU: depends on your CPU. > > As a percentage of file I/O overhead: ~17%, assuming average cache > locality, degrading to ~36% for cache-busting (like IOZone). This > was on a 486 DX/2-66, so your mileage may vary. > -mike hancock From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 07:44:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA00945 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 07:44:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA00920; Wed, 22 May 1996 07:44:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA26388; Wed, 22 May 1996 10:49:27 -0400 Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 10:49:27 -0400 Message-Id: <199605221449.KAA26388@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: 2.1R vs 050196SNAP Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Can anyone, in a nutshell please, give me a simple bullet list of the most compelling reasons (excluding obscure device support) to run the SNAP over 2.1R. thanks, Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 07:58:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA01825 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 07:58:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA01783; Wed, 22 May 1996 07:58:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA06841; Wed, 22 May 1996 07:57:48 -0700 (PDT) To: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) cc: hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.1R vs 050196SNAP In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 May 1996 10:49:27 EDT." <199605221449.KAA26388@etinc.com> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 07:57:48 -0700 Message-ID: <6839.832777068@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Can anyone, in a nutshell please, give me a simple bullet list of the > most compelling reasons (excluding obscure device support) to > run the SNAP over 2.1R. For a more balanced perspective, you might also solicit compelling reasons NOT to run the SNAP. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 08:21:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA03207 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 08:21:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nightmare.dreamchaser.org ([207.40.47.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA03200 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 08:21:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mofo (mofo.dreamchaser.org [206.230.42.91]) by nightmare.dreamchaser.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA08099; Wed, 22 May 1996 09:16:29 -0600 Message-ID: <31A32853.6E7D@ics.com> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 08:44:35 -0600 From: Gary Aitken Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b3 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4c) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joerg Wunsch CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: samba, cannot bind References: <199605221000.MAA14098@uriah.heep.sax.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > When I try to run samba, I get the log message: > > > > 05/19/96 23:21:13 loaded services > > 05/19/96 23:21:13 becoming a daemon > > ===> bind failed on port 139 > > Closing connections > > 05/19/96 23:21:13 Server exit (normal exit) > > Anything else already listening on port 139? Look at the output of > ``netstat -an''. (Have you accidentally enabled port 139 in > inetd.conf?) Thanks; that turned out to be exactly the problem. -- Gary Aitken garya@ics.com (business) garya@dreamchaser.org (personal) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 08:25:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA03482 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 08:25:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA03463 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 08:25:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exalt.x.org by expo.x.org id AA16933; Wed, 22 May 96 11:24:24 -0400 Received: from localhost by exalt.x.org id LAA06575; Wed, 22 May 1996 11:24:21 -0400 Message-Id: <199605221524.LAA06575@exalt.x.org> To: Kees Jan Koster Cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Forgiving select() call. In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 22 May 1996 15:02:14 EST. <199605221302.PAA00484@phobos.spase.nl> Organization: X Consortium Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 11:24:20 EST From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hoi Hackers, > > Consider the following excerpt from /sys/kern/sys_generic.c, from > 2.1.0-release. Somewhere near line 550. This piece of code forgives > programs that specify a too large `nd' value by setting it to a more > acceptable value. > > ... > if (uap->nd > p->p_fd->fd_nfiles) > uap->nd = p->p_fd->fd_nfiles; /* forgiving; slightly wrong */ > ... This looks to me like an optimization. Why check for I/O on file descriptors that are known not to be in use? > Out of curiosity I printed the process ID's of processes that were > forgiven in this way. One of the biggest offenders was the X server %-). > > My questions: > - shouldn't programs that are forgiven be patched to specify correct > values? The parameters the X server passes are legal and, strictly speaking, not incorrect. What makes you think they are not correct? > - If I were to hack my kernel to return EINVAL instead, would that be > a correct (if pedantic) thing to do? No, it would not. The value passed, e.g., by the X server is not invalid. And breaking legacy software is rarely, if ever, the correct thing to do. > - I noticed that EINVAL is also returned if (uap->nd > FD_SETSIZE), why > is that not forgiven. Why should it be forgiven when it clearly is an error. > > I want to modify select(2) to return the `timeout left' as described in the > BUGS section of the manual page. Any reason why I should not? To what point? If you write a program that depends on this behavior it won't be portable to any other system because no other system (that I know of) has a select that fixes this "bug". -- Kaleb KEITHLEY X Consortium From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 08:40:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA04477 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 08:40:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA04437 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 08:39:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.7.5/BSD4.4) id BAA13678 Thu, 23 May 1996 01:38:08 +1000 (EST) From: michael butler Message-Id: <199605221538.BAA13678@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: IRC problem. To: keng@storm.dgii.com (Ken Germann) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 01:38:08 +1000 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, john@starfire.mn.org In-Reply-To: <199605221355.IAA18570@storm.dgii.com> from "Ken Germann" at May 22, 96 08:55:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ken Germann writes: > I am running an IRC server that I am finding can only accept > 260 clients before it segment faults and dumps core. What's "maxusers" set to in your kernel config file ? michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 08:43:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA04823 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 08:43:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA04792; Wed, 22 May 1996 08:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from chuck@localhost) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id LAA06827; Wed, 22 May 1996 11:43:02 -0400 Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 11:43:02 -0400 From: Charles Green Message-Id: <199605221543.LAA06827@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Subject: APC Powerchute Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Has anyone tried run APC's SCO powerchute application under SCO emulation. I've got a copy somewhere I can dig up. If no one's tried it, I'll give it a try. -- Charles Green, PRC Inc. UN*X System Administration 22 Powell Ave. Apt. B UN*X Security & Whitesboro, NY 13492 Programming From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 08:45:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA04978 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 08:45:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA04972 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 08:45:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA23278; Wed, 22 May 1996 10:44:03 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199605221544.KAA23278@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: IRC problem. To: keng@storm.dgii.com (Ken Germann) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 10:44:02 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, john@starfire.mn.org In-Reply-To: <199605221355.IAA18570@storm.dgii.com> from "Ken Germann" at May 22, 96 08:55:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I am running an IRC server that I am finding can only accept > 260 clients before it segment faults and dumps core. I've tried > to change the FD_SETSIZE to a large number to get around this > problem and it doesn't appear to work. When I set the FD_SETSIZE > to 384, 512, or 1024 the server won't connect to the IRC network. > There are a couple of other sites running FreeBSD 2.1 like I am that > are running into the same problem. The problem doesn't appear to affect > BSDI 2.1 or NetBSD. > > Any assistance with this problem would be appreciated. Based on my (poor) recollection of past discussions, there's a problem with select fd_set's with fds > 255. I'd surely like to see this fixed too. ;-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 09:09:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA06215 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 09:09:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maelstrom.CC.McGill.CA (maelstrom.CC.McGill.CA [132.206.35.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA06202 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 09:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from yves@localhost) by maelstrom.CC.McGill.CA (8.7.1/8.6.10) id MAA11046 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com; Wed, 22 May 1996 12:08:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605221608.MAA11046@maelstrom.CC.McGill.CA> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Yves Lepage Date: Wed, 22 May 96 12:08:15 -0400 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com Subject: SDL cards Reply-To: yves@CC.McGill.CA Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, I was asked to find out how hard it would be to get support in FreeBSD for SDL Communication synchronous boards. This is in preparation for the Inet 96 conference. Anyone here is already using them with FreeBSD machines? Here is the info about these cards: The RISCom/N2pci is low-cost, high performance synchronous dual port adapter for the PCI bus. The N2pci combines the power of the Hitachi HD64570 Serial Communication Adapter (SCA) and a high performance 32-bit PCI Bus Mastering Interface. The N2pci will support two full duplex HDLC/SDLC speeds from 56Kbps to T1/E1 speeds on each port. The N2pci performs the function of a 32-bit PCI Direct Bus master, allowing SCA DMA operations directly into PC Host Memory. 32-Bit PCI Bus Master The N2pci has a high performance 32-bit PCI bus interface Controller which supports burst bus transfers at 132 Mbps. The PC host can program the SCA for Block DMA transfers directly in and out of Host Memory or other Memory Mapped PCI peer devices. The architecture for SDL's N2pci adapter is illustrated in Figure 1. Software Development Support All applications developed for SDL's popular RISCom/N2 card, will run with minimal modification on the N2pci. The N2pci is available with a comprehensive set of Development Tools, Diagnostics and Drivers for DOS, OS/2, WINDOWS-NT and popular versions of UNIX. FEATURES * Hitachi HD64570 SCA * Two Full Duplex DMA Ports * 32-bit PCI Bus Master Interface * 132 MBps burst / 40 MBps sustained * HDLC/SDLC Speeds to 12 Mbps * Software Selectable Interfaces * RS232, EIA530, X.21, V.35 & Custom Interfaces * OEM I.D. Support APPLICATIONS * Frame Relay Access * X.25 Access * Internet Access * Bridge & Routers Thanks in advance. Yves Lepage From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 09:11:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA06508 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 09:11:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from novell.com (nj-ums.fpk.novell.com [147.2.128.54]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA06490; Wed, 22 May 1996 09:11:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from INET-NJ-Message_Server by fromGW with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 22 May 1996 12:08:24 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain Message-ID: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 12:17:06 -0400 From: DARREND@novell.com (Darren Davis) To: babkin@hq.icb.chel.su, DARREND@novell.com Cc: current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, jehamby@lightside.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... - Reply - Reply Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Serge A. Babkin 5/21 8:43pm >>> >BTW, SCO5 already has ELF support and most of its standard >utilities are already compiled in ELF format (I think they did it to use >the ELF shared libraries). > >-SB The SCO Open Desktop implementation of ELF is an abomination. There ELF support is basically incompatible with any SVR4. I think they did a disservice to the Unix community for creating yet another binary format. Though given the work and their direction with SVR3.2 at the time, it was probably their only choice. In talking with some of their engineers, they would have loved to do an SVR4 implementation of ELF, but they had too many constraints. I guess it's a moot point today :-( Darren R. Davis Senior Software Engineer Novell, Inc. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 09:58:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA10008 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 09:58:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sierra.zyzzyva.com (ppp0.zyzzyva.com [198.183.2.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA10003 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 09:58:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zyzzyva.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sierra.zyzzyva.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id LAA01473 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 11:58:15 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199605221658.LAA01473@sierra.zyzzyva.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: mount() flags X-uri: http://www.zyzzyva.com/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 11:58:15 -0500 From: Randy Terbush Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Could someone offer some feedback about the following scenario, and perhaps some clues about the flags MNT_UPDATE and MNT_RELOAD? These flags aren't mentioned in the manpage. I have the following snippet of code. What I am trying to do is change a read-only mounted filesystem to read-write, change something on the filesystem, then remount read-only. This seems to cause a system panic, (details currently unavailable). Trying to duplicate the problem with a floppy device I am finding that it looks as though these types of requests don't get queued. It would also appear that I may be in for a challenge to figure out how to wait for the first to finish. Suggestions for the clueless are welcome. In the case below, the second call to mount will fail since the first call is still in progress. Is there a way to wait() on the first call? main () { struct ufs_args *ufs; ufs = (struct ufs_args *) malloc (sizeof (struct ufs_args)); ufs->fspec = "/dev/fd0a"; if ((mount (MOUNT_UFS, "/mnt", MNT_UPDATE, ufs)) != 0) { fprintf (stderr, "failed to change mount status\n"); perror ("mount"); } exec something here..... if ((mount (MOUNT_UFS, "/mnt", MNT_RDONLY, ufs)) != 0) { fprintf (stderr, "failed to change mount status\n"); perror ("mount"); } } From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 10:01:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA10344 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 10:01:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA10337 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 10:01:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA04803; Wed, 22 May 1996 11:01:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199605221701.LAA04803@rover.village.org> To: Kees Jan Koster Subject: Re: Forgiving select() call. Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers Mailing list) In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 22 May 1996 15:02:14 +0200 Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 11:01:03 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : I want to modify select(2) to return the `timeout left' as described in the : BUGS section of the manual page. Any reason why I should not? That is *********NOT******* how select works. Too many programs do not do the right thing when this is done. The failure mode is that things seem to work but you have no CPU left for other thigns. Ths is a *VERY*BAD* idea. Linux tried it and now they have bsd compatible select behavior unless you go our of your way to get the behavior you propose. Why? Too many programs were eating the CPU for lunch because they were poorly programmed. And there were too many to easily fix all of them. Linux is the *ONLY* system that changes the timeval in the select call. It is a bad idea. If it had been a good idea, then Lite or Lite2 would have had it changed. The bug in the man page is really a bug with the man page by now, imho. If you want to have a system call that returns this information, don't call it select. All that said, people should write code that doesn't assume that timeval will be const in this call. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 10:20:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA11609 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 10:20:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA11591; Wed, 22 May 1996 10:20:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk ([158.152.50.150]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.5/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id KAA25991; Wed, 22 May 1996 10:20:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id QAA09950; Wed, 22 May 1996 16:44:34 +0100 (BST) To: Bruce Evans cc: doc@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: sysctl parameters In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 18 May 1996 02:36:43 +1000." <199605171636.CAA29775@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:44:34 +0100 Message-ID: <9948.832779874@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans wrote in message ID <199605171636.CAA29775@godzilla.zeta.org.au>: > >You know, it would be good if someone (or a group) could document what > >all the different sysctl parameters do. I'm particularly mystified by > >what some of the net.* parameters do and would love an explanation > >which doesn't involve trying to unravel several hundred K of source > >code. > Aren't they documented in sysctl.3 and/or sysctl.8? These man pages > are a bit out of date but still much better than ioctl.2. Nope, not fully anyhow. Infact, only the most basic flags seem to be documented, and the ``interesting'' ones which could actually improve routing & TCP throughput seem to be missed out. I think a mention in the handbook wouldn't go amiss either, esp. in the relevant section (i.e. put net.* stuff in the networking chapter, etc) Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 10:37:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA12680 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 10:37:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA12675 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 10:37:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA00689; Wed, 22 May 1996 10:37:34 -0700 (PDT) To: yves@CC.McGill.CA cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com Subject: Re: SDL cards In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 May 1996 12:08:15 EDT." <199605221608.MAA11046@maelstrom.CC.McGill.CA> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 10:37:34 -0700 Message-ID: <687.832786654@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I was asked to find out how hard it would be to get support in FreeBSD > for SDL Communication synchronous boards. This is in preparation for > the Inet 96 conference. I just started talking to SDL a couple of days ago, and John Hay was kind enough to volunteer almost immediately. AFAIK, we're now at the "they send hardware and tech specs to John, he looks at it and tries to figure out how hard it's going to be to write a driver" stage. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 10:48:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA13389 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 10:48:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA13382 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 10:48:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id SAA10901; Wed, 22 May 1996 18:47:02 +0100 (BST) To: Bruce Evans cc: davidg@root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: HSM for FreeBSD?, was Re: Who wants a DPT SCSI controller driver? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 May 1996 15:16:44 +1000." <199605220516.PAA10571@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 18:47:02 +0100 Message-ID: <10899.832787222@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans wrote in message ID <199605220516.PAA10571@godzilla.zeta.org.au>: > /bin/df and FFS's statfs() have cosmetic bugs in 2.1R. This was fixed > on 1996/01/14 in -current. -stable is still broken. Sigh. Since CCD is now available for -stable too, is there any objection to bringing the patches back from -current to -stable? Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 10:55:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA13833 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 10:55:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cu-online.com (root@mail.cu-online.com [205.198.248.82]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA13819 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 10:55:38 -0700 (PDT) From: jayk@babba.cu-online.com Received: from babba.cu-online.com (jayk@babba.cu-online.com [205.198.248.21]) by mail.cu-online.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA02911; Wed, 22 May 1996 12:55:54 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 12:52:30 -0500 (CDT) To: Ken Germann cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, john@starfire.mn.org Subject: Re: IRC problem. In-Reply-To: <199605221355.IAA18570@storm.dgii.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, in your kernel config, try adding: options MAX_CHILD=1024 options MAX_OPEN=1024 Also, you will probably need to change FD_SETSIZE and OPEN to 1024. This should fix your problem. On Wed, 22 May 1996, Ken Germann wrote: > > I am running an IRC server that I am finding can only accept > 260 clients before it segment faults and dumps core. I've tried > to change the FD_SETSIZE to a large number to get around this > problem and it doesn't appear to work. When I set the FD_SETSIZE > to 384, 512, or 1024 the server won't connect to the IRC network. > There are a couple of other sites running FreeBSD 2.1 like I am that > are running into the same problem. The problem doesn't appear to affect > BSDI 2.1 or NetBSD. > > Any assistance with this problem would be appreciated. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 11:01:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA14271 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 11:01:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA14266; Wed, 22 May 1996 11:00:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uMID6-0004KCC; Wed, 22 May 96 11:00 PDT Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 11:00:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: Dennis cc: hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.1R vs 050196SNAP In-Reply-To: <199605221449.KAA26388@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Dennis wrote: > > Can anyone, in a nutshell please, give me a simple bullet list of the > most compelling reasons (excluding obscure device support) to > run the SNAP over 2.1R. > > thanks, > > Dennis > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com I found the 5/1 SNAP particularly stable but of course your mileage may vary. I recommend you test it on a non-critical machine before you even think about using it in production, just in case your configuration isn't quite compatible. FreeBSD-STABLE is of course a better choice for an ISP. Having said that, the advantages of -CURRENT: 1) PHK's improved RAM-efficient malloc. This, combined with much improved VM code, means the system swaps less and performs faster. 2) New versions of software (e.g. sendmail), bugs fixed. But then again, any critical bugs/security patches have been integrated into FreeBSD-STABLE. 3) Much better Linux support. Now runs ELF and a.out binaries. Even FreeBSD-native ELF binaries can be created (with the ELFkit). Supports sound under Linux DOOM! That's about it. But I do like this latest SNAP and I've had great success running it at home. If you have a spare machine that is not running anything "mission critical" I would recommend it. ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 11:09:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA14915 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 11:09:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trem.cnt.org.br (desvio.cnt.org.br [200.19.123.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA14899 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 11:08:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by trem.cnt.org.br (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA08687; Wed, 22 May 1996 15:07:11 -0300 From: ormonde@trem.cnt.org.br (Rodrigo Ormonde) Message-Id: <9605221807.AA08687@trem.cnt.org.br> Subject: NULL interface field in ip_fw_chk To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 15:07:11 -0300 (GRNLNDST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi folks. I'm working in the ip_fw.c module in the FreeBSD 2.1. There is a function in this module called ip_fw_chk that returns TRUE or FALSE if the ip packet that it receives should or not be accepted (i.e. routed by ip). This function receives 4 parameters and one of them is a pointer to a structure that holds information about the interface the packet comes from. The prototype of the function is: int ip_fw_chk(mbuf *m, struct ip *ip, struct ifnet *rif, ... Looking into the code of ip_fw_chk, I realise that sometimes this function is called with rif = NULL. My question is: does anybody knows why and under what circunstances the ip_fw_chk is called with a NULL pointer in the interface field ? (the ip_fw_chk function is called only by ip_input.c) Thanks in advance for your help. -- Rodrigo de La Rocque Ormonde Confederacao Nacional do Transporte e-mail: ormonde@cnt.org.br From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 11:11:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA15053 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 11:11:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sierra.zyzzyva.com (ppp0.zyzzyva.com [198.183.2.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA15036 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 11:11:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zyzzyva.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sierra.zyzzyva.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id NAA03001 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 13:11:06 -0500 (CDT) Resent-Message-Id: <199605221811.NAA03001@sierra.zyzzyva.com> Message-Id: <199605221811.NAA03001@sierra.zyzzyva.com> To: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Re: 2.1R vs 050196SNAP In-reply-to: dennis's message of Wed, 22 May 1996 10:49:27 -0400. <199605221449.KAA26388@etinc.com> X-uri: http://www.zyzzyva.com/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 13:03:19 -0500 From: Randy Terbush Resent-To: hackers@freebsd.org Resent-Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 13:11:05 -0500 Resent-From: Randy Terbush Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Can anyone, in a nutshell please, give me a simple bullet list of the > most compelling reasons (excluding obscure device support) to > run the SNAP over 2.1R. > > thanks, > > Dennis One of the more interesting things about the -current source tree is the DEVFS. I don't have a feel for how stable it is in the latest SNAP, but something I am looking forward to using. Perhaps someone can comment on it's usefullness/stability? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 11:19:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA15383 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 11:19:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA15378 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 11:19:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA04492; Wed, 22 May 1996 11:13:13 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605221813.LAA04492@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Glitch in install procedure. To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 11:13:13 -0700 (MST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, erich@uruk.org, terry@lambert.org, dutchman@spase.nl, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <5353.832756963@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at May 22, 96 02:22:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Well, I added the geometry warning by popular request, I can just as > easily remove it for the same reason. :-) > > Is there general agreement that the geometry warning is bogus? It's bogus unless the kernel knows the per drive geometry so it can know when to warn. THe kernel knows the per drive ID geometry, but it does not have a mapping of drive ID to special device, making the information practically useless. The warning isn't (can't be) very effective under those circumstances. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 11:44:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA16544 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 11:44:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resolver.viaduk.net (root@resolver.viaduk.net [194.44.78.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA16505; Wed, 22 May 1996 11:44:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sns@localhost) by resolver.viaduk.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA05747; Wed, 22 May 1996 21:43:42 +0300 Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 21:43:42 +0300 (EET DST) From: Sergey Stepanenko To: Charles Green cc: hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: APC Powerchute In-Reply-To: <199605221543.LAA06827@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> Message-ID: X-Contacts: +38 044 4625090 X-Organization: Viaduk-Telecom MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Charles Green wrote: > Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 11:43:02 -0400 > From: Charles Green > To: hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org > Subject: APC Powerchute > > Has anyone tried run APC's SCO powerchute application under SCO > emulation. I've got a copy somewhere I can dig up. If no one's tried it, I'll > give it a try. > > -- > Charles Green, PRC Inc. UN*X System Administration > 22 Powell Ave. Apt. B UN*X Security & > Whitesboro, NY 13492 Programming > Actually there's a upsd daemon that works just fine under freebsd 2.X. If you need it - e-mail me - i'll put it on ftp (it's free). WB . . Sergey Stepanenko - System/Network Administrator Technical Director - Viaduk-Telecom, Inc 10 Sagaidachnogo St., 254070 Kiev, Ukraine tel. +38 (044) 4168267 tel./fax +38 (044) 4625090 hostmaster@viaduk.net - sns@viaduk.net . . From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 11:51:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA17204 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 11:51:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA17194 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 11:51:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from chuck@localhost) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA08375; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:51:10 -0400 Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 14:51:10 -0400 From: Charles Green Message-Id: <199605221851.OAA08375@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> In-Reply-To: Sergey Stepanenko "Re: APC Powerchute" (May 22, 21:43) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Sergey Stepanenko Subject: Re: APC Powerchute Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've got a copy of upsd(don't remember the rev.), But I was playing around with some of the options available with powerchute and thought it would be neat to be able to use them. A friend tried it out under Linux and BSD/OS and claimed it worked using their SCO emulation. I've tried it under Linux (the text based version works) but haven't confirmed whether or not it works under BSD/OS. Sergey Stepanenko stands accused of saying: } Date: May 22, 21:43 } Subject: Re: APC Powerchute } On Wed, 22 May 1996, Charles Green wrote: } } > Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 11:43:02 -0400 } > From: Charles Green } > To: hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org } > Subject: APC Powerchute } > } > Has anyone tried run APC's SCO powerchute application under SCO } > emulation. I've got a copy somewhere I can dig up. If no one's tried it, I'll } > give it a try. } > } > -- } > Charles Green, PRC Inc. UN*X System Administration } > 22 Powell Ave. Apt. B UN*X Security & } > Whitesboro, NY 13492 Programming } > } Actually there's a upsd daemon that works just fine under freebsd 2.X. } If you need it - e-mail me - i'll put it on ftp (it's free). } } WB } . . } } Sergey Stepanenko - System/Network Administrator } Technical Director - Viaduk-Telecom, Inc } 10 Sagaidachnogo St., 254070 Kiev, Ukraine } tel. +38 (044) 4168267 tel./fax +38 (044) 4625090 } hostmaster@viaduk.net - sns@viaduk.net } } . . } }-- End of excerpt from Sergey Stepanenko -- Charles Green, PRC Inc. UN*X System Administration 22 Powell Ave. Apt. B UN*X Security & Whitesboro, NY 13492 Programming From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 12:22:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA19595 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 12:22:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA19590; Wed, 22 May 1996 12:22:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA22578; Wed, 22 May 1996 21:21:48 +0200 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA21452 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Wed, 22 May 1996 21:20:43 +0200 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA05119 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Wed, 22 May 1996 21:14:26 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA01203; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:45:58 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199605221845.UAA01203@yedi.iaf.nl> X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands Subject: Re: HSM for FreeBSD?, was Re: Who wants a DPT SCSI controller driver? To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 20:45:58 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: ken@stox.pr.mcs.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, taob@io.org In-Reply-To: <199605220516.PAA10571@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at May 22, 96 03:16:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >OK, disklabel and newfs. 1 hour and 20 minutes later I had this 28+ Gb > >filesystem... Only problem sofar: 'df' reports a negative 'avail' number. > >Percentage is also -0% (noi typo). I'll try to find out why this happens. > > >Any known problems with disks this big? > > /bin/df and FFS's statfs() have cosmetic bugs in 2.1R. This was fixed > on 1996/01/14 in -current. -stable is still broken. Sigh. > > Bruce Hmm. Well, I'll happily do a 'boundary test' on a pre-version of 2.2R. Jordan, please don't forget to trigger me -----^^ Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 12:26:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA19920 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 12:26:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail13.digital.com (mail13.digital.com [192.208.46.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA19915 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 12:26:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from muggsy.lkg.dec.com by mail13.digital.com (8.7.5/UNX 1.2/1.0/WV) id PAA18823; Wed, 22 May 1996 15:10:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from whydos.lkg.dec.com by muggsy.lkg.dec.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) with SMTP id AA25007; Wed, 22 May 1996 15:09:51 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by whydos.lkg.dec.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA03088; Wed, 22 May 1996 15:14:51 GMT Message-Id: <199605221514.PAA03088@whydos.lkg.dec.com> X-Authentication-Warning: whydos.lkg.dec.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Randy Terbush Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mount() flags In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 22 May 1996 11:58:15 EST." <199605221658.LAA01473@sierra.zyzzyva.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed ; boundary="===_0_Wed_May_22_15:11:23__1996" Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 15:14:50 +0000 From: Matt Thomas Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is a multipart MIME message. --===_0_Wed_May_22_15:11:23__1996 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A perfect oppurtunity to send out an somewhat related patch for 2.11BSD which enhances the operation of mount -u. It might be worth doing for 4.4BSD as well. I don't know, I'm a networking guy, not a file systems guy. :-) -- Matt Thomas Internet: matt@3am-software.com 3am Software Foundry WWW URL: http://www.3am-software.com/bio/matt.html Westford, MA Disclaimer: I disavow all knowledge of this message --===_0_Wed_May_22_15:11:23__1996 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Newsgroups: comp.bugs.2bsd Path: nntpd.lkg.dec.com!pa.dec.com!decwrl!pacbell.com!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.inc.net!trellis.wwnet.com!agis!frankensun.altair.com!wlbr!moe!sms From: sms@moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz) Subject: "mount -o update" doesn't do anything (#316) Organization: 2BSD, Simi Valley CA USA Message-Id: Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 06:45:42 GMT Lines: 476 Subject: "mount -o update" doesn't do anything (#316) Index: sys/ufs_mount.c,etc/mount/ 2.11BSD Description: Mount options (noexec, nosuid, ...) can not be changed without unmounting and remounting a filesystem because the "-u" (also known as "-o update") switch is ignored by the kernel. Repeat-By: mount -u -o nodev /usr mount Note that 'nodev' does not appear in the line for /usr. Also if it is desired to turn off an option it can't be done except by unmounting the filesystem and remounting it. Fix: mount(8) itself changes very little, it was already parsing the '-u' and '-o update' options and passing them to the kernel. The changes to mount(8) add the 'async' option and update the man page. ufs_mount.c is where all the interesting changes take place. Attention is paid to the MNT_UPDATE flag now. The previous hack to update only the root filesystem goes away in favor of a more general method which works for all filesystems. Oh - in case anyone's counting, despite the size of the changes to ufs_mount.c the growth in the kernel's text is only 84 bytes. NOTE: it is possible to update a ReadOnly filesystem to ReadWrite now but NOT the reverse. All other options can be toggled on/off as desired. Kernel support for the 'async' and 'sync' options is in the planning stage now. Turning those options on/off will show up in the output of mount(8) but will have no effect. Toggling the other options (nodev, etc) will do the expected thing. To install the update cut where indicated, saving to a file (/tmp/316) and then: patch -p0 < /tmp/316 cd /usr/src/etc/mount make make install make clean next a new kernel needs to be compiled and installed: cd /sys/YOUR_KERNEL_NAME make if no errors were encountered (overlays too big, etc): make install reboot As always this and previous updates are available via anonymous FTP to either FTP.IIPO.GTEGSC.COM or MOE.2BSD.COM in the directory /pub/2.11BSD. ==========================cut here============================ *** /usr/src/sys/sys/ufs_mount.c.old Fri Mar 1 21:03:35 1996 --- /usr/src/sys/sys/ufs_mount.c Sat Apr 20 21:56:21 1996 *************** *** 3,9 **** * All rights reserved. The Berkeley software License Agreement * specifies the terms and conditions for redistribution. * ! * @(#)ufs_mount.c 1.7 (2.11BSD GTE) 1996/3/1 */ #include "param.h" --- 3,9 ---- * All rights reserved. The Berkeley software License Agreement * specifies the terms and conditions for redistribution. * ! * @(#)ufs_mount.c 1.8 (2.11BSD GTE) 1996/4/20 */ #include "param.h" *************** *** 35,89 **** dev_t dev; register struct inode *ip; register struct fs *fs; ! register struct nameidata *ndp = &u.u_nd; u_int lenon, lenfrom; char mnton[MNAMELEN], mntfrom[MNAMELEN]; ! u.u_error = getmdev(&dev, uap->fspec); ! if (u.u_error) return; ndp->ni_nameiop = LOOKUP | FOLLOW; ndp->ni_segflg = UIO_USERSPACE; ndp->ni_dirp = (caddr_t)uap->freg; ! ip = namei(ndp); ! if (ip == NULL) return; /* - * This is a hack to update the 'from' field for the root filesystem. When - * the kernel boots the string 'root_device' placed there as a place holder - * until the "mount -a" is done from /etc/rc - at that time the name of the - * root device is known and passed thru to here. If '/' is the directory - * then only the 'from' and 'on' fields are updated. - * * The following two copyinstr calls will not fault because getmdev() or * namei() would have returned an error for invalid parameters. */ copyinstr(uap->freg, mnton, sizeof (mnton) - 1, &lenon); copyinstr(uap->fspec, mntfrom, sizeof (mntfrom) - 1, &lenfrom); ! if (mnton[0] == '/' && mnton[1] == '\0') { iput(ip); ! if (dev != mount[0].m_dev) ! return(u.u_error = EINVAL); ! fs = &mount[0].m_filsys; ! goto updname; } ! if (ip->i_count != 1 || (ip->i_number == ROOTINO)) { ! iput(ip); ! u.u_error = EBUSY; ! return; ! } ! if ((ip->i_mode&IFMT) != IFDIR) { ! iput(ip); ! u.u_error = ENOTDIR; ! return; ! } ! ! fs = mountfs(dev, uap->flags, ip); ! if (fs == 0) ! return; updname: mount_updname(fs, mnton, mntfrom, lenon, lenfrom); } mount_updname(fs, on, from, lenon, lenfrom) --- 35,139 ---- dev_t dev; register struct inode *ip; register struct fs *fs; ! struct nameidata *ndp = &u.u_nd; ! struct mount *mp; u_int lenon, lenfrom; + int error = 0; char mnton[MNAMELEN], mntfrom[MNAMELEN]; ! if (u.u_error = getmdev(&dev, uap->fspec)) return; ndp->ni_nameiop = LOOKUP | FOLLOW; ndp->ni_segflg = UIO_USERSPACE; ndp->ni_dirp = (caddr_t)uap->freg; ! if ((ip = namei(ndp)) == NULL) return; + if ((ip->i_mode&IFMT) != IFDIR) { + error = ENOTDIR; + goto cmnout; + } /* * The following two copyinstr calls will not fault because getmdev() or * namei() would have returned an error for invalid parameters. */ copyinstr(uap->freg, mnton, sizeof (mnton) - 1, &lenon); copyinstr(uap->fspec, mntfrom, sizeof (mntfrom) - 1, &lenfrom); ! ! if (uap->flags & MNT_UPDATE) { + fs = ip->i_fs; + mp = (struct mount *) + ((int)fs - offsetof(struct mount, m_filsys)); + if (ip->i_number != ROOTINO) + { + error = EINVAL; /* Not a mount point */ + goto cmnout; + } + /* + * Check that the device passed in is the same one that is in the mount + * table entry for this mount point. + */ + if (dev != mp->m_dev) + { + error = EINVAL; /* not right mount point */ + goto cmnout; + } + /* + * This is where the RW to RO transformation would be done. It is, for now, + * too much work to port pages of code to do (besides which most + * programs get very upset at having access yanked out from under them). + */ + if (fs->fs_ronly == 0 && (uap->flags & MNT_RDONLY)) + { + error = EPERM; /* ! RW to RO updates */ + goto cmnout; + } + /* + * However, going from RO to RW is easy. Then merge in the new + * flags (async, sync, nodev, etc) passed in from the program. + */ + if (fs->fs_ronly && ((uap->flags & MNT_RDONLY) == 0)) + { + fs->fs_ronly = 0; + mp->m_flags &= ~MNT_RDONLY; + } + #define _MF (MNT_NOSUID | MNT_NODEV | MNT_NOEXEC | MNT_ASYNC | MNT_SYNCHRONOUS) + mp->m_flags &= ~_MF; + mp->m_flags |= (uap->flags & _MF); + #undef _MF iput(ip); ! u.u_error = 0; ! goto updname; } ! else ! { ! /* ! * This is where a new mount (not an update of an existing mount point) is ! * done. ! * ! * The directory being mounted on can have no other references AND can not ! * currently be a mount point. Mount points have an inode number of (you ! * guessed it) ROOTINO which is 2. ! */ ! if (ip->i_count != 1 || (ip->i_number == ROOTINO)) ! { ! error = EBUSY; ! goto cmnout; ! } ! fs = mountfs(dev, uap->flags, ip); ! if (fs == 0) ! return; ! } ! /* ! * Lastly, both for new mounts and updates of existing mounts, update the ! * mounted-on and mounted-from fields. ! */ updname: mount_updname(fs, mnton, mntfrom, lenon, lenfrom); + return; + cmnout: + iput(ip); + return(u.u_error = error); } mount_updname(fs, on, from, lenon, lenfrom) *** /usr/src/sys/h/mount.h.old Fri Dec 29 22:00:50 1995 --- /usr/src/sys/h/mount.h Thu Apr 18 21:26:40 1996 *************** *** 3,9 **** * All rights reserved. The Berkeley software License Agreement * specifies the terms and conditions for redistribution. * ! * @(#)mount.h 7.2.3 (2.11BSD GTE) 1995/12/29 */ /* --- 3,9 ---- * All rights reserved. The Berkeley software License Agreement * specifies the terms and conditions for redistribution. * ! * @(#)mount.h 7.2.4 (2.11BSD GTE) 1996/4/18 */ /* *************** *** 76,86 **** #define MNT_NOEXEC 0x0004 /* can't exec from filesystem */ #define MNT_NOSUID 0x0008 /* don't honor setuid bits on fs */ #define MNT_NODEV 0x0010 /* don't interpret special files */ - - /* - * Flags set by internal operations. - */ #define MNT_QUOTA 0x0020 /* quotas are enabled on filesystem */ /* * Mask of flags that are visible to statfs(). --- 76,83 ---- #define MNT_NOEXEC 0x0004 /* can't exec from filesystem */ #define MNT_NOSUID 0x0008 /* don't honor setuid bits on fs */ #define MNT_NODEV 0x0010 /* don't interpret special files */ #define MNT_QUOTA 0x0020 /* quotas are enabled on filesystem */ + #define MNT_ASYNC 0x0040 /* file system written asynchronously */ /* * Mask of flags that are visible to statfs(). *** /usr/src/etc/mount/mount.c.old Thu Jan 25 21:10:55 1996 --- /usr/src/etc/mount/mount.c Sat Apr 20 21:51:26 1996 *************** *** 36,42 **** "@(#) Copyright (c) 1980, 1989, 1993, 1994\n\ The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved.\n"; ! static char sccsid[] = "@(#)mount.c 8.19.1 (2.11BSD) 1996/1/16"; #endif /* not lint */ #include --- 36,42 ---- "@(#) Copyright (c) 1980, 1989, 1993, 1994\n\ The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved.\n"; ! static char sccsid[] = "@(#)mount.c 8.19.2 (2.11BSD) 1996/4/18"; #endif /* not lint */ #include *************** *** 73,81 **** int o_opt; char *o_name; } optnames[] = { - #ifdef notnow { MNT_ASYNC, "asynchronous" }, - #endif { MNT_NODEV, "nodev" }, { MNT_NOEXEC, "noexec" }, { MNT_NOSUID, "nosuid" }, --- 73,79 ---- *** /usr/src/etc/mount/mount_ufs.c.old Thu Jan 25 21:13:18 1996 --- /usr/src/etc/mount/mount_ufs.c Thu Apr 18 21:42:33 1996 *************** *** 36,42 **** "@(#) Copyright (c) 1993, 1994\n\ The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved.\n"; ! static char sccsid[] = "@(#)mount_ufs.c 8.2.1 (2.11BSD) 1996/1/16"; #endif /* not lint */ #include --- 36,42 ---- "@(#) Copyright (c) 1993, 1994\n\ The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved.\n"; ! static char sccsid[] = "@(#)mount_ufs.c 8.2.2 (2.11BSD) 1996/4/18"; #endif /* not lint */ #include *************** *** 54,62 **** static struct mntopt mopts[] = { MOPT_STDOPTS, - #ifdef notnow MOPT_ASYNC, - #endif MOPT_SYNC, MOPT_UPDATE, { NULL } --- 54,60 ---- *** /usr/src/etc/mount/mount.8.old Tue Jan 16 22:59:36 1996 --- /usr/src/etc/mount/mount.8 Thu Apr 18 21:48:08 1996 *************** *** 29,35 **** .\" OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF .\" SUCH DAMAGE. .\" ! .\" @(#)mount.8 8.7.1 (2.11BSD) 1996/1/16 .\" .TH MOUNT 8 "January 16, 1996" .UC 7 --- 29,35 ---- .\" OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF .\" SUCH DAMAGE. .\" ! .\" @(#)mount.8 8.7.2 (2.11BSD) 1996/4/18 .\" .TH MOUNT 8 "January 16, 1996" .UC 7 *************** *** 104,118 **** .B dangerous flag to set, and should not be used unless you are prepared to recreate the file ! system should your system crash. This option is not currently implemented ! in 2.11BSD but is planned for the future. .TP 10 force The same as \fB\-f\fP; forces the revocation of write access when trying to downgrade ! a filesystem mount status from read-write to read-only. Currently a NOP ! in 2.11BSD. .TP 10 nodev Do not interpret character or block special devices on the file system. --- 104,117 ---- .B dangerous flag to set, and should not be used unless you are prepared to recreate the file ! system should your system crash. .TP 10 force The same as \fB\-f\fP; forces the revocation of write access when trying to downgrade ! a filesystem mount status from read-write to read-only. This is not ! (and likely never will be) supported in 2.11BSD. .TP 10 nodev Do not interpret character or block special devices on the file system. *************** *** 134,147 **** .TP 10 sync All I/O ! to the file system should be done synchronously. Not implemented yet in ! 2.11BSD but is planned for the future. .TP 10 update The same as \fB\-u\fP; indicate that the status of an already mounted file system should be changed. - Not currently implemented in 2.11BSD. .PP Any additional options specific to a filesystem type that is not one of the internally known types (see the --- 133,144 ---- .TP 10 sync All I/O ! to the file system should be done synchronously. .TP 10 update The same as \fB\-u\fP; indicate that the status of an already mounted file system should be changed. .PP Any additional options specific to a filesystem type that is not one of the internally known types (see the *************** *** 226,233 **** files on the filesystem are currently open for writing unless the \fB\-f\fP flag is also specified. ! This is currently not implemented in 2.11BSD but it is planned that ! the ability to change the flags (nodev, nosuid, etc) will be implemented. The set of options is determined by first extracting the options for the file system from the .I fstab --- 223,230 ---- files on the filesystem are currently open for writing unless the \fB\-f\fP flag is also specified. ! This is currently not implemented in 2.11BSD. ! The ability to change the flags (nodev, nosuid, etc) is however supported. The set of options is determined by first extracting the options for the file system from the .I fstab *************** *** 261,267 **** and this manpage were ported from 4.4BSD-Lite to 2.11BSD to gain the ability to set the various flags such as \fBnodev\fP, \fBnosuid\fP and so on. Multiple filesystem types are not supported and several of the ! options and flags are not yet implemented. .SH HISTORY A .B mount --- 258,264 ---- and this manpage were ported from 4.4BSD-Lite to 2.11BSD to gain the ability to set the various flags such as \fBnodev\fP, \fBnosuid\fP and so on. Multiple filesystem types are not supported and several of the ! options and flags are not implemented. .SH HISTORY A .B mount *** /VERSION.old Fri Apr 12 22:29:42 1996 --- /VERSION Sat Apr 20 20:38:57 1996 *************** *** 1,4 **** ! Current Patch Level: 315 2.11 BSD ============ --- 1,4 ---- ! Current Patch Level: 316 2.11 BSD ============ --===_0_Wed_May_22_15:11:23__1996-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 12:39:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA20524 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 12:39:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA20454; Wed, 22 May 1996 12:39:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id UAA11190; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:38:46 +0100 (BST) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: peter@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: src/gnu Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 20:38:45 +0100 Message-ID: <11188.832793925@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk With all the recent dicussion about upgrading the various FSF maintained utilities to be something slightly less archaic, I was wondering if it was time to do a ``cvs remove'' on /usr/src/gnu and move to /usr/src/gpl. This was discussed a while back, so that the tools would be properly imported onto vendor branches, and *IN THEORY* be more maintainable as a result. (a while back being sometime while Rod was still CVS Meister if I remember). Comments? What does our current cvs meister thing? (The reason behind the move is the fact that the import wasn't done properly in the first place, and if I remember, the tools were just brought over wholesale from the 1.x source tree rather than being seperately imported so that they could be mainained). Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 13:00:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA22171 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 13:00:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA22163; Wed, 22 May 1996 13:00:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0uMK5F-0003weC; Wed, 22 May 96 13:00 PDT Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA00781; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:00:36 GMT To: "Gary Palmer" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, peter@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: src/gnu In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 May 1996 20:38:45 +0100." <11188.832793925@palmer.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 20:00:34 +0000 Message-ID: <779.832795234@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Comments? What does our current cvs meister thing? > > (The reason behind the move is the fact that the import wasn't done > properly in the first place, and if I remember, the tools were just > brought over wholesale from the 1.x source tree rather than being > seperately imported so that they could be mainained). Isn't the fundamental problem that nobody maintains them, rather than how they're maintained ? Apart from that, wouldn't it make more sense to use the "ports" paradigm on them instead of checking in all the files ? In theory we should be running pretty much footool-9.3.tar.gz with a few patches, so why not speed up our CVS-tree by actually not checking in the thousands of files but rather access them by reference via the tar file ? That would also make it easier to show that we do the "GPL" thing... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 13:36:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA24856 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 13:36:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DeepCore.dk (dial63.cybercity.dk [194.16.56.63]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA24846; Wed, 22 May 1996 13:36:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sos@localhost) by DeepCore.dk (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA00333; Wed, 22 May 1996 22:21:35 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199605222021.WAA00333@DeepCore.dk> Subject: Re: src/gnu To: gpalmer@FreeBSD.ORG (Gary Palmer) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 22:21:35 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, peter@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <11188.832793925@palmer.demon.co.uk> from Gary Palmer at "May 22, 96 08:38:45 pm" From: sos@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Gary Palmer who wrote: > > With all the recent dicussion about upgrading the various FSF > maintained utilities to be something slightly less archaic, I was > wondering if it was time to do a ``cvs remove'' on /usr/src/gnu and > move to /usr/src/gpl. This was discussed a while back, so that the > tools would be properly imported onto vendor branches, and *IN THEORY* > be more maintainable as a result. (a while back being sometime while > Rod was still CVS Meister if I remember). If we had a living chance, I'd rather get rid of ALL the gnu stuff entirely, whizz bang dead it is... > Comments? What does our current cvs meister thing? > > (The reason behind the move is the fact that the import wasn't done > properly in the first place, and if I remember, the tools were just > brought over wholesale from the 1.x source tree rather than being > seperately imported so that they could be mainained). Hmm, the question is rather WHO is going to maintain it ?? Most of the gnu stuff is now so - so - entangeled, that it is almost useless if its not known to work on your OS to begin with (yeah I've had my share of struggle with it recently at work, thats why I'm so negative about gnu stuff). If we are going to maintain a B'maked version of all the things, that is going to be a major task just keeping up to date. And mesured by the quality of lets say gcc-2.7.x I'm not even sure I want to upgrade :) I'd rather be interested in finding alternatives from the free world (I know the compiler & debugger is going to be hard to replace, allthough there is some definite candidates). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 14:49:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA01243 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA01232 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:49:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uMLmZ-0004JmC; Wed, 22 May 96 14:49 PDT Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 14:49:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: MkLinux for PowerMac available! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just discovered that Apple's Linux/Mach based free Unix for PowerMac is available (or at least an early developers release) from http://www.mklinux.apple.com/ It runs on Nubus-based PowerMacs (6100, 7100, 8100, PowerComputing). Presumably PCI will be supported in a future version. I'll try it tomorrow and give a full report. It does require repartitioning the hard drive(s) to create A/UX root and swap partitions. Also, I'll try to discover the viability of using Apple's kernel device driver source code as hardware documentation to bootstrap a Free/NetBSD port to PowerMac. The lack of public info about the Apple hardware architecture (and the huge differences between various 68K models) is the main reason why the NetBSD port runs on so few models of 68K-based Macs. Hopefully with free device driver source code supported by Apple, this will all change. ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 14:51:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA01476 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:51:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA01433; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:51:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA04915; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:50:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 14:50:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Jaye Mathisen To: Wilko Bulte cc: Bruce Evans , ken@stox.pr.mcs.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, taob@io.org Subject: Re: HSM for FreeBSD?, was Re: Who wants a DPT SCSI controller driver? In-Reply-To: <199605221845.UAA01203@yedi.iaf.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I had a 20GB RAID running under FreeBSD for some time, and it worked just fine, utilities and everything. My problem was an apparently broken 2940UW driver that I couldn't get resolved in time, and so had to bail back to BSD/OS unfortunately. However, while it was running on a buslogic in narrow mode, it worked just fine. On Wed, 22 May 1996, Wilko Bulte wrote: > > >OK, disklabel and newfs. 1 hour and 20 minutes later I had this 28+ Gb > > >filesystem... Only problem sofar: 'df' reports a negative 'avail' number. > > >Percentage is also -0% (noi typo). I'll try to find out why this happens. > > > > >Any known problems with disks this big? > > > > /bin/df and FFS's statfs() have cosmetic bugs in 2.1R. This was fixed > > on 1996/01/14 in -current. -stable is still broken. Sigh. > > > > Bruce > > Hmm. Well, I'll happily do a 'boundary test' on a pre-version of 2.2R. > > Jordan, please don't forget to trigger me -----^^ > > Wilko > _ __________________________________________________________________________ > | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl > |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 14:55:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA01808 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:55:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nol.net (root@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA01801 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:55:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dazed.nol.net (blh@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by nol.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA18143 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 16:55:17 -0500 (CDT) X-AUTH: NOLNET SENDMAIL AUTH Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:55:15 -0500 (CDT) From: "Brett L. Hawn" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: re: synfloods and the like Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Rather than spam the list with marxx's personal attacks and my replies I'm going to move this discussion to private email as should have been done some 10 or emails ago. I apoologize to all of you for certain portions of this discussion which have taken on personal overtones that should never have been brought into this. Brett From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 14:59:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA02068 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:59:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA02057 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 14:59:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uMLwX-0004JxC; Wed, 22 May 96 14:59 PDT Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 14:59:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Java Workshop runs on FreeBSD! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Last night I made a quick attempt to run SunSoft's Java Workshop under the Linux JDK under FreeBSD-current. To my surprise, after hacking up the shell scripts a little (e.g. BSD uses "uname -m" instead of "uname -p") I was able to successful start JWS, compile a simple program, and execute it in the included Java Web browser. Unfortunately, any socket activity raised an exception, so neither HTTP nor the debugger (which spawns a separate copy of JWS) worked. Otherwise I would have published a checklist of what I did, and where to get all these programs, but I want to test things a little further. In the meantime, enterprising hackers may want to check out http://www.sun.com for JWS Dev 4 Beta, and http://www.blackdown.org/ for the Linux JDK. I'm also waiting for the Dev 5 release of Java Workshop, since the Dev 4 beta expires on June 1. If I can get everything working, I will post an official announcement. I wish I could make this a port, but because of the licensing status of all programs involved, this is obviously not possible. In the meantime, interested parties can contact me if you want to help test JWS under FreeBSD or Linux, help solve the remaining Socket problem, and/or try to get a native FreeBSD port of the JDK capable of running JWS. ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 15:21:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA03534 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 15:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ibmmail.COM (ibmmail.com [199.171.26.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA03529 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 15:21:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from IMXGATE.COM by ibmmail.COM (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 6224; Wed, 22 May 96 18:20:56 EDT Received: from sv13.cis.squared.com by imxgate.com (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Wed, 22 May 96 18:20:55 EDT Received: from mg01a.mhs.squared.com by sv13.cis.squared.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA28798; Wed, 22 May 1996 18:24:29 -0400 Received: from NetWare MHS (SMF70) by mg01a.mhs.squared.com via Connect2-SMTP 4.00.b27D; Wed, 22 May 1996 17:19:13 -0400 Message-Id: <7D48755B0187397C@mg01a.mhs.squared.com> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 18:19:51 -0400 From: "Sexton, Robert" Organization: Square D To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Digiboard drivers. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: Connect2-SMTP 4.00.b27D MHS to SMTP Gateway Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've got a digi PC/8e, and I wonder how it's going with drivers. I checked on freefall, but I can't even find the alpha drivers. Has digi ever come around on this? I love my digi, and I really don't want to dump it. Robert Sexton From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 15:34:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA04299 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 15:34:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA04294 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 15:34:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA05227; Wed, 22 May 1996 15:28:21 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605222228.PAA05227@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: mount() flags To: randy@zyzzyva.com (Randy Terbush) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 15:28:21 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199605221658.LAA01473@sierra.zyzzyva.com> from "Randy Terbush" at May 22, 96 11:58:15 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Could someone offer some feedback about the following scenario, > and perhaps some clues about the flags MNT_UPDATE and MNT_RELOAD? > These flags aren't mentioned in the manpage. OK. There's some magic embedded here for booting from an unclean root so that you can fsck it. > I have the following snippet of code. What I am trying to do is > change a read-only mounted filesystem to read-write, change something > on the filesystem, then remount read-only. This seems to cause > a system panic, (details currently unavailable). There's a couple bugs with the remount read-only having to do with buffer flushing. Some of the FS patched I submitted, when take with Matt Day's patches for the fs_sync code, fix the problem. The patches were actually cooperatively evolved so that you could mount the drives R/O and convert them to R/W instead of mounting them R/W initially. This was actually to remove the BSD kernel dependencies from the FS framework code to allow it to be used from a Window95 IFS interface. It had the side effect of cleaning up a lot of bogosities and allowing a lot of Windows95/WindowsNT autoregocnition and PnP event-based technologies to be used in the BSD kernel. There are really two reasons behind this: 1) FS autorecognition requires the mount to go through, but you don't necessarily want to change on disk structure as a result. So you mount R/O and then convert when the FS is mapped into the system hierarchy, but not before. 2) The sync code wanted to be modified to set the clean flag on the FS after the sync had completed and no buffers were there to allow DOS "power off" behaviour to not damage the FS contents, requiring a fsck. It turns out that the second of these results in the ability to convert a R/W FS to a R/O FS, since that fag was the marker used in the implementation to tag FS's which needed the clean bit unset before an update could occur (this isn't quite what you want in a FreeBSD kernel, where autoconversion from R/O to R/W could be a bad thing -- you need another flag on the in core mount struct for that). As it happens, this was actually later removed in favor of getting rid of the auto-clean feature and replacing it with a UFS specific version of the Soft Updates code (which seems to be working fine; Matt is a stud). Jeffrey Hsu has just finished the Lite2 code integration; I haven't had time to look it over yet like he's asked me to (just found out about it 5 minutes ago). I'm pretty sure that he's done the right thing, even without looking at it. If it includes some of my UFS (and other FS) mount code changes, the remount as R/O should work fine now. This code is not currently available, and probably bears more testing before it can be integrated into the common source tree. > Trying to duplicate the problem with a floppy device I am finding > that it looks as though these types of requests don't get queued. > It would also appear that I may be in for a challenge to figure > out how to wait for the first to finish. I would suggest full unmounting and then remounting instead of converting the mount type, at least for right now. If you run -current, it will be at *least* several weeks before the modified code is generally available, if then. > Suggestions for the clueless are welcome. > > > In the case below, the second call to mount will fail > since the first call is still in progress. Is there a > way to wait() on the first call? stat( "/mnt", &statbuf1); if ((mount (MOUNT_UFS, "/mnt", MNT_UPDATE, ufs)) != 0) { fprintf (stderr, "failed to change mount status\n"); perror ("mount"); } for(;;) { stat( "/mnt", &statbuf2); if( statbuf2.st_dev != statbuf1.st_dev) break; sleep( 1); } ... Will wait for the mount to complete. I thought the call was synchronus, in any case... I think you are really wanting to wait for no active buffers on the FS -- which is something the current code can't support without an active unmount. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 15:41:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA04832 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 15:41:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA04815 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 15:41:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA05245; Wed, 22 May 1996 15:35:59 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605222235.PAA05245@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: MkLinux for PowerMac available! To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 15:35:59 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at May 22, 96 02:49:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I just discovered that Apple's Linux/Mach based free Unix for PowerMac is > available (or at least an early developers release) from > http://www.mklinux.apple.com/ > > It runs on Nubus-based PowerMacs (6100, 7100, 8100, PowerComputing). > Presumably PCI will be supported in a future version. I'll try it > tomorrow and give a full report. It does require repartitioning the hard > drive(s) to create A/UX root and swap partitions. Also, I'll try to > discover the viability of using Apple's kernel device driver source code > as hardware documentation to bootstrap a Free/NetBSD port to PowerMac. > The lack of public info about the Apple hardware architecture (and the > huge differences between various 68K models) is the main reason why the > NetBSD port runs on so few models of 68K-based Macs. Hopefully with free > device driver source code supported by Apple, this will all change. After you install, let me know how the MACH source tree pans out as far as whether or not it's using ROM calls to implement device drivers (like Tennon systems MachTEN), or if the device drivers are truly native code. If they are native code, then it should be easy to rip them out of the MACH into a BSD framework. Note that the current processor support for the thing is limited to the PPC 601 processor systems. The 603/604 systems won't work. The PPC stuff I have going is all 603 based stuff; I *think* it's OK for a 604, but I'm pretty sure that it is *not* OK for a 601 (I was planning a BeBox port eventually, if I can catch up with the FreeBSD kernel changes; that should do both the 601 and the SMP MEI-as-opposed-to-MESI cache coherency model work). In any case, also take a look at the licensing for the MACH sources; it may not allow free redistribution so it would be necessary to derive documentation from their drivers, and then reimplement; that would be tragic for a BSD port. I am *very* interested in playing in the PowerMac/PowerMac clone sandbox. 8-). Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 15:44:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA05089 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 15:44:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA05078 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 15:44:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <15499(7)>; Wed, 22 May 1996 15:43:26 PDT Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177475>; Wed, 22 May 1996 15:43:22 -0700 X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: kbracey@art.acorn.co.uk (Kevin Bracey) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Problem with non-blocking TCP connects? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 16 May 1996 03:02:50 PDT." <319B0B5A@kbracey> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 15:43:19 PDT From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <96May22.154322pdt.177475@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <319B0B5A@kbracey> you write: >There is an interesting anomaly in the processing of non-blocking TCP >connections. I'm not convinced that calling connect() again is the right thing to do to see if it has completed. I tend to select() for writing (as implied by the connect(2) man page), and then use getsockopt(SO_ERROR) when the select comes true. Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 16:14:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA07291 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 16:14:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from hsu@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA07284 for hackers; Wed, 22 May 1996 16:13:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:13:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeffrey Hsu Message-Id: <199605222313.QAA07284@freefall.freebsd.org> To: hackers Subject: Re: src/gnu Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Apart from that, wouldn't it make more sense to use the "ports" paradigm > on them instead of checking in all the files ? In theory we should be > running pretty much footool-9.3.tar.gz with a few patches, so why not > speed up our CVS-tree by actually not checking in the thousands of files I agree with Poul. The bmake paradigm for gcc just isn't working. If the ports model fits better, we should use that instead. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 16:27:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA08312 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 16:27:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA08299 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 16:27:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nightmare.dreamchaser.org ([207.40.47.18]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id QAA28596 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 16:27:18 -0700 Received: from mofo (mofo.dreamchaser.org [206.230.42.91]) by nightmare.dreamchaser.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA10212 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 17:25:41 -0600 Message-ID: <31A3A0C5.59A5@ics.com> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 17:18:29 -0600 From: Gary Aitken Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b3 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4c) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: stty -- not Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I need to configure ttyd1 for use with a printer to add cr to all newlines. printcap doesn't appear to be able to handle this, so I thought the thing to do would be: stty -f /dev/ttyd1 onlcr Doing the above pretends to work, but stty -f /dev/ttyd1 shows the old settings: 60 /etc#stty -f /dev/ttyd1 speed 9600 baud; lflags: -icanon -isig -iexten -echo iflags: -icrnl -ixon -ixany -imaxbel -brkint oflags: -opost -onlcr -oxtabs cflags: cs8 -parenb This has got to be something stupid I don't understand... Clue's? -- Gary Aitken garya@ics.com (business) garya@dreamchaser.org (personal) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 16:37:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA09323 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 16:37:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA09315 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 16:36:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uMNSW-0004JrC; Wed, 22 May 96 16:36 PDT Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:36:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: MkLinux for PowerMac available! In-Reply-To: <199605222235.PAA05245@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > After you install, let me know how the MACH source tree pans out as > far as whether or not it's using ROM calls to implement device > drivers (like Tennon systems MachTEN), or if the device drivers are > truly native code. If they are native code, then it should be easy > to rip them out of the MACH into a BSD framework. Okay, I'll be sure to D/L the source and poke around, once I have the thing bootable (i.e. I can FTP, run GCC, and the like). > Note that the current processor support for the thing is limited to > the PPC 601 processor systems. The 603/604 systems won't work. Too bad. I hope they have this support (and PCI) before "1.0"! > The PPC stuff I have going is all 603 based stuff; I *think* it's > OK for a 604, but I'm pretty sure that it is *not* OK for a 601 > (I was planning a BeBox port eventually, if I can catch up with > the FreeBSD kernel changes; that should do both the 601 and the > SMP MEI-as-opposed-to-MESI cache coherency model work). Hmmm.. I've been reading about the BeBox. My existing PC is a fine workhorse, even though it is only a 486DX4/100, I haven't needed any more CPU personally. Still, it would be nice to upgrade one day to the fastest system I can buy and host Unix on. Do you think the BeBox will pan out on a pure price/performance level (assuming an SMP OS, of course) vs. a single-CPU high-end Pentium? Also, if the whole point of the BeBox is to host BeOS, then why port Unix to it at all? I'm not criticizing, just asking your opinion. > In any case, also take a look at the licensing for the MACH sources; > it may not allow free redistribution so it would be necessary to > derive documentation from their drivers, and then reimplement; that > would be tragic for a BSD port. Will do. > I am *very* interested in playing in the PowerMac/PowerMac clone > sandbox. 8-). Me too. I would be installing it at work, if not for the fact that I have access to multiple SPARC 20's and only one PowerMac which other people are using. Tomorrow, I will try it at school on an external SCSI disk hooked up to a PowerMac in a friend's computer lab. Perhaps, like the FreeBSD box in the same lab (buk.smll.csupomona.edu), we can put some accounts and Web pages on it, and make it available to other students. I think the PowerMac is a fine platform, which is hampered by a fragile OS. Putting Unix on it is one way to find out its true capabilities. ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 16:47:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA10406 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 16:47:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA10397 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 16:47:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA05640; Wed, 22 May 1996 16:42:35 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605222342.QAA05640@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: MkLinux for PowerMac available! To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:42:35 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at May 22, 96 04:36:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The PPC stuff I have going is all 603 based stuff; I *think* it's > > OK for a 604, but I'm pretty sure that it is *not* OK for a 601 > > (I was planning a BeBox port eventually, if I can catch up with > > the FreeBSD kernel changes; that should do both the 601 and the > > SMP MEI-as-opposed-to-MESI cache coherency model work). > > Hmmm.. I've been reading about the BeBox. My existing PC is a fine > workhorse, even though it is only a 486DX4/100, I haven't needed any more > CPU personally. Still, it would be nice to upgrade one day to the fastest > system I can buy and host Unix on. Do you think the BeBox will pan out on > a pure price/performance level (assuming an SMP OS, of course) vs. a > single-CPU high-end Pentium? Also, if the whole point of the BeBox is to > host BeOS, then why port Unix to it at all? I'm not criticizing, just > asking your opinion. I have a registered developer ID with Be. The developer pricing on a full system with docs, with no head, is US$1700. I haven't gotten one yet because I'm still working on the 603/604 Ultra PPC motherboard port (the same motherboard Motorolla uses for the PowerStack stuff they sell). > > I am *very* interested in playing in the PowerMac/PowerMac clone > > sandbox. 8-). > > Me too. I would be installing it at work, if not for the fact that I > have access to multiple SPARC 20's and only one PowerMac which other > people are using. Tomorrow, I will try it at school on an external SCSI > disk hooked up to a PowerMac in a friend's computer lab. Perhaps, like > the FreeBSD box in the same lab (buk.smll.csupomona.edu), we can put some > accounts and Web pages on it, and make it available to other students. I > think the PowerMac is a fine platform, which is hampered by a fragile > OS. Putting Unix on it is one way to find out its true capabilities. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 16:47:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA10422 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 16:47:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA10409 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 16:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA01176; Wed, 22 May 1996 16:47:32 -0700 (PDT) To: Gary Aitken cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: stty -- not In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 May 1996 17:18:29 MDT." <31A3A0C5.59A5@ics.com> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:47:32 -0700 Message-ID: <1174.832808852@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > stty -f /dev/ttyd1 onlcr stty -f /dev/ttyld1 onlcr should do the trick, I think. This is actually quite well described here: http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/handbook141.html#270 Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 17:09:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA12540 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 17:09:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA12533 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 17:09:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA09380 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 17:10:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 17:10:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Anybody using Xinside on -current? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm thinking of making the jump to -current on my personal box, but want to make sure that the Xinside server for my Matrox cards will work. Thanks in advance. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 17:44:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA16242 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 17:44:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA16237 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 17:44:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uMOVz-0004JrC; Wed, 22 May 96 17:44 PDT Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 17:44:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: X11R6.1 available... Should we use? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just discovered that X11R6.1 has been available since March. The differences between X11R6 and R6.1 are fairly minor, mostly bug fixes and completion of a few extensions formerly considered workInProgress. It should be fully source, binary, and protocol compatible with X11R6. Also, it is interesting to note the FreeBSD 2.1.0R is now officially supported (it was FreeBSD 1.1 in X11R6). So the question is: When are we going to upgrade to X11R6.1? There don't seem to be any compelling reasons not to, other than the effort it takes to make a port. Does anyone on the XFree86 team know what the status of XFree86 under X11R6.1 is? XFree86 3.1.2C does seem to be integrated into X11R6.1 itself and there is also an odd directory named xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree98 which seems to be a subset of xfree86, with no accompanying documentation! ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 18:36:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA23230 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 18:36:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rogerswave.ca (mail.rogerswave.ca [198.231.117.195]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA23209; Wed, 22 May 1996 18:36:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wong.rogerswave.ca (wong.rogerswave.ca [204.92.17.32]) by rogerswave.ca (8.7.2/8.7.2) with SMTP id VAA24568; Wed, 22 May 1996 21:49:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 21:17:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Wong To: Terry Lambert cc: Jake Hamby , jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... In-Reply-To: <199605210521.WAA29987@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 May 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > The Solaris LWP's are a bit harder. They require kernel preemption and > multithreading. are you sure? last time I look at it, was that LWP is just another process that at will share somebody's code and data segments. use union to make use of the process table entries in otherwise regular process table. You are right that they are being used for multithreading in c and ada implementation. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 19:01:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA25586 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 19:01:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA25581 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 19:01:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA06676; Thu, 23 May 1996 11:45:28 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605230215.LAA06676@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: stty -- not To: garya@ics.com (Gary Aitken) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 11:45:27 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <31A3A0C5.59A5@ics.com> from "Gary Aitken" at May 22, 96 05:18:29 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gary Aitken stands accused of saying: > > I need to configure ttyd1 for use with a printer to add cr to > all newlines. > printcap doesn't appear to be able to handle this, > so I thought the thing to do would be: > > stty -f /dev/ttyd1 onlcr Read the 'sio' manpage and look at /etc/rc.serial. You need to run the stty against the 'initial state' device, not the port itself. You're on the right track; the 'sio' driver is just trying to overcome some of the historic bogosities in the Unix serial port paradigm. > Gary Aitken garya@ics.com (business) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 19:02:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA25711 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 19:02:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA25693 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 19:02:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA06689; Thu, 23 May 1996 11:47:14 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605230217.LAA06689@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Java Workshop runs on FreeBSD! To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 11:47:14 +0930 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at May 22, 96 02:59:43 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jake Hamby stands accused of saying: > > Last night I made a quick attempt to run SunSoft's Java Workshop under > the Linux JDK under FreeBSD-current. To my surprise, after hacking up You're aware that the JDK has been ported to FreeBSD quite some time back? Search the archives for 'JDK' 'Green threads' and 'Jeffrey Hsu'. > ---Jake -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 19:06:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA26245 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 19:06:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA26234 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 19:06:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.transsys.com (localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.transsys.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA09077; Wed, 22 May 1996 22:05:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605230205.WAA09077@whizzo.transsys.com> X-Authentication-Warning: whizzo.transsys.com: Host localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Michael Hancock cc: Terry Lambert , bsdi-users@bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU References: In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 May 1996 23:26:51 +0900." Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 22:05:51 -0400 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk So how much is the board, and more importantly, how much is the ISDN signalling software development kit? Framing the HDLC on the channels is likely the easy part of this problem. louie From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 19:21:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA27518 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 19:21:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA27509 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 19:21:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.7.5/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id LAA25527; Thu, 23 May 1996 11:21:24 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 11:21:24 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: "Louis A. Mamakos" cc: bsdi-users@bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU In-Reply-To: <199605230205.WAA09077@whizzo.transsys.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I think the board is under $500. I haven't looked into the prices for the software development kit. There are already people in both BSDI and FreeBSD moving on this. There will probably be licencing issues for STAC compression though. I still think it is worth following up on. If you look at the per B channel cost of a ASCEND MAX or Cisco 5200 UAS you can easily understand the excitement this card can generate. -mh On Wed, 22 May 1996, Louis A. Mamakos wrote: > > So how much is the board, and more importantly, how much is the ISDN > signalling software development kit? Framing the HDLC on the channels > is likely the easy part of this problem. > > louie > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 19:29:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA28273 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 19:29:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA28255 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 19:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.7.5/8.6.5) id IAA19451; Thu, 23 May 1996 08:30:37 +0600 (GMT+0600) From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199605230230.IAA19451@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: Digiboard drivers. To: sextonr.crestvie@squared.com (Sexton, Robert) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 08:30:37 +0600 (ESD) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <7D48755B0187397C@mg01a.mhs.squared.com> from "Sexton, Robert" at May 22, 96 06:19:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've got a digi PC/8e, and I wonder how it's going with drivers. > I checked on freefall, but I can't even find the alpha drivers. > Has digi ever come around on this? I love my digi, and I really > don't want to dump it. The driver is in the source tree since 2.1R. It's name is dgb and it is described in dgb(4). There is a version with lots of bug fixes made by Oleg Panaschenko designed for -stable, it is not commited yet. I can send it to you by e-mail. I'm going to port these fixes to -current. -SB From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 19:42:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA29687 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 19:42:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rogerswave.ca (mail.rogerswave.ca [198.231.117.195]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA29667 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 19:42:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wong.rogerswave.ca (wong.rogerswave.ca [204.92.17.32]) by rogerswave.ca (8.7.2/8.7.2) with SMTP id WAA06070; Wed, 22 May 1996 22:56:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 22:24:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Wong To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Apollo Pro chipset? In-Reply-To: <199605220841.BAA00390@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 May 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > http://www.via.com.tw/APRO.htm > > Hi, > I ran into this chipset in usenet . It looks good at least from > the specs. It supports multiple P6s, 1GiG of main memory, USB..., etc... > > So I am wondering if anyone has a system based on the Apollo Pro and > how well does it work? check out http://www.fic.com.tw they produce MB based on the via chipset. they claim that It is faster than ASUS's triton MB and cheaper too. > > Tnks, > Amancio > > > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 20:11:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA02784 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:11:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nightmare.dreamchaser.org ([207.40.47.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA02762 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:11:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mofo (mofo.dreamchaser.org [206.230.42.91]) by nightmare.dreamchaser.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA11245; Wed, 22 May 1996 21:10:30 -0600 Message-ID: <31A3D728.4232@ics.com> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 21:10:32 -0600 From: Gary Aitken Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b3 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4c) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sean Eric Fagan , jkh@time.cdrom.com CC: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: stty -- not References: <199605230047.RAA10020@kithrup.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk OK, guys, I'm now totally confused; either the handbook is totally messed up, sean's wrong, something doesn't work, or I should go stick my head in the sand. Probably the latter. The handbook implies hex numbers are allowed: bamboo|ps|PS|S|panasonic|Panasonic KX-P4455 PostScript v51.4:\ :sh:sd=/var/spool/lpd/bamboo:\ :lp=/dev/ttyd5:fs#0x82000e1:xs#0x820:\ ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > For one thing, the fs/fc/xs/xc bits have to be in octal. Which is correct? (I've tried all three combos: 0x10, 020, and 16) > Then, you need to have the opost bit set, whatever that works out to being. The handbook says to set the CRMOD bit, and to look in /usr/include/sys/ioctl_compat.h I tried that using fs#0x10, fs#020, and fs#16, to no avail; so, taking sean's advice, I found OPOST and ONLCR in termios.h, and tried fs#3, also to no avail. So then I tried covering the world with 0xff, 0377, and 255, but got nowhere. I finally got worried about whether it was even looking at printcap, so I changed the baud rate in printcap and got garbage, so I know it's reading the right file, anyway. So... How the heck *do* you turn those bits on, and what are the right ones? There appears to be some confusion about which set of bits should be used: the ones in termios.h which correspond to termios.c_iflag, c_oflag, c_cflag, and c_lflag, and which would imply OPOST | ONLCR; and which are not referenced in the handbook the ones in ioctl_compat.h which correspond to sgttyb.sg_flags (?), which is defined as a short and doesn't have room for all the possible flags listed (I probably just don't understand how they're used here); and which would imply CRMOD Neither ones seem to do the job for me. I know I'm going to feel stupid when this is done... I did manage to get a inserted, but only by manually configuring the printer using: stty -f /dev/ttyid1 opost onlcr stty -f /dev/ttyld1 opost onlcr Attempting to manually configure the device using the locked device alone, or the initialization device alone, did not work. One can specifically set the initialization and locked state using stty. Does using the - version of a flag lock them off, or simply return them to their default, unlocked, condition? If it locks them off, how does one return them to "default"? i.e. stty -f /dev/ttyld1 opost onlcr locks opost onlcr on if stty -f /dev/ttyld1 -opost -onlcr locks opost onlcr off then How does one return them to "unlocked", so other settings will take effect? If they lock both on and off, then my problem may be that I twiddled these bits before I got the printcap entry correct. -- Gary Aitken garya@ics.com (business) garya@dreamchaser.org (personal) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 20:15:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA03521 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:15:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA03497; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:15:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA06882; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:00:25 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605230330.NAA06882@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: src/gnu To: sos@FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 13:00:25 +0930 (CST) Cc: gpalmer@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, peter@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605222021.WAA00333@DeepCore.dk> from "sos@FreeBSD.org" at May 22, 96 10:21:35 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk sos@FreeBSD.org stands accused of saying: > > Hmm, the question is rather WHO is going to maintain it ?? If it's kept as a 'port' rather than mutilated and stuffed into the source tree, it should _theoretically_ be easier to get the FSF people to accept patches to it. I think the idea has a lot of merit. > Most of the gnu stuff is now so - so - entangeled, that it is > almost useless if its not known to work on your OS to begin > with (yeah I've had my share of struggle with it recently > at work, thats why I'm so negative about gnu stuff). Indeed. It's a fuming mess and no joke. > I'd rather be interested in finding alternatives from the > free world (I know the compiler & debugger is going to be > hard to replace, allthough there is some definite candidates). Even if we did, the million-and-one FSF fanatics out there would be screaming about this or that feature that we didn't have that they couldn't possibly live without. A non-GPL compiler that could build the base system would be nice, but I think GCC is going to be a required component of most developers systems for some time to come. (Or am I the only person who uses vararg macros and named structure initialisers? 8) > Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 20:20:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA04138 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:20:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA04116; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:20:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA06176; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:14:10 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605230314.UAA06176@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Congrats on CURRENT 5/1 SNAP... To: wong@rogerswave.ca (Wong) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 20:14:09 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jehamby@lightside.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Wong" at May 22, 96 09:17:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Mon, 20 May 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > The Solaris LWP's are a bit harder. They require kernel preemption and > > multithreading. > > are you sure? last time I look at it, was that LWP is just another process > that at will share somebody's code and data segments. use union to make > use of the process table entries in otherwise regular process table. Bzzzt. 1) per thread kernel stacks 2) kernel reentrancy for async calls 3) see John Dysons note on the process page table being shared. > You are right that they are being used for multithreading in c and ada > implementation. Yes; the libLWP (aioread/aiowrite/aiowait/aiocancel) implementation was never "a supported configuration". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 20:36:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA06085 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:36:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA06036 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:36:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id UAA13414; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:35:56 -0700 Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 20:35:56 -0700 From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199605230335.UAA13414@kithrup.com> To: garya@ics.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: stty -- not Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >The handbook implies hex numbers are allowed: > >bamboo|ps|PS|S|panasonic|Panasonic KX-P4455 PostScript v51.4:\ > :sh:sd=/var/spool/lpd/bamboo:\ > :lp=/dev/ttyd5:fs#0x82000e1:xs#0x820:\ > ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Looking at the source, decimal and octal numbers are allowed. Hex numbers are apparantly not allowed. I have not looked at the handbook, so I don't know what it would have. Sorry. >I tried that using fs#0x10, fs#020, and fs#16, to no avail; >so, taking sean's advice, >I found OPOST and ONLCR in termios.h, and tried fs#3, also to no avail. >So then I tried covering the world with 0xff, 0377, and 255, >but got nowhere. > >So... >How the heck *do* you turn those bits on, and what are the right >ones? I have NO IDEA. That is why I wrote the changes to lpd and printcap to allow using stty-like strings -- because I could never figure out what the stupid bits were supposed to be. I *think* you just need 03 to get what you want -- but I'm not sure. But I don't know if you need to set xs, or xc, or fs, or fc to set or clear other bits. Sean. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 21:10:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA09950 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 21:10:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA09945 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 21:10:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA00718; Wed, 22 May 1996 21:09:56 -0700 Message-Id: <199605230409.VAA00718@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: yves@CC.McGill.CA, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com Subject: Re: SDL cards In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 May 1996 10:37:34 PDT." <687.832786654@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 21:09:55 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I was asked to find out how hard it would be to get support in FreeBSD > > for SDL Communication synchronous boards. This is in preparation for > > the Inet 96 conference. > > I just started talking to SDL a couple of days ago, and John Hay was > kind enough to volunteer almost immediately. AFAIK, we're now at the > "they send hardware and tech specs to John, he looks at it and tries > to figure out how hard it's going to be to write a driver" stage. > Let me know if I can be of any assistance , I am really, really tired of my ISPs Ascend 400 . It tends to buckle under the weight of FreeBSD :( Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 21:50:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA14187 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 21:50:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nightmare.dreamchaser.org ([207.40.47.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA14181 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 21:50:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mofo (mofo.dreamchaser.org [206.230.42.91]) by nightmare.dreamchaser.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA11704; Wed, 22 May 1996 22:45:51 -0600 Message-ID: <31A3ED83.730@ics.com> Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 22:45:55 -0600 From: Gary Aitken Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b3 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4c) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sean Eric Fagan CC: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: stty -- not References: <199605230335.UAA13414@kithrup.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Looking at the source, decimal and octal numbers are allowed. Hex numbers > are apparantly not allowed. > > I have not looked at the handbook, so I don't know what it would have. #ifdef ASIDE Given that the handbook shows use of hex numbers, is there a chance that historical usage allowed hex numbers, and any mods should continue to allow hex numbers? Or was the handbook just plain wrong? #endif /* ASIDE */ > >How the heck *do* you turn those bits on, and what are the right > >ones? > > I have NO IDEA. I believe you :-) Can you tell me this: do you know if setting -opost and -onlcr on the init and/or lock devices will prevent their having any effect when specified in the printcap file? In particular, will the sequence: stty -f /dev/ttyld1 opost onlcr stty -f /dev/ttyld1 -opost -onlcr which *looks* like a noop (to illiterates like me), in fact still allow printcap to override the opost and onlcr values when lpd attempts to configure the device? If not, is the only way to get back to "normal" to reboot? -- Gary Aitken garya@ics.com (business) garya@dreamchaser.org (personal) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 22:43:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA18657 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 22:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wipro.wipsys.soft.net (wipro.wipsys.soft.net [164.164.24.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA18260 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 22:39:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wipro.wipsys.soft.net (8.6.13/1.35) id FAA11816; Thu, 23 May 1996 05:39:08 GMT From: malli@wipro.wipsys.soft.net (Mallikarjuna Rao) Message-Id: <199605230539.FAA11816@wipro.wipsys.soft.net> Subject: why globbing is partial in ftp?? To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 11:09:05 +0530 (IST) Cc: malli@wipro.wipsys.soft.net (Mallikarjuna Rao) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Hackers, The ftpd(server) does globbing if the path includes ~. Otherwise it does not. For example: if "/usr/malli" is my home directory and test is a directory in my home directory. After loggin If I do ftp> cd ~malli/tes* It works. If I do ftp> cd tes* (from /usr/malli) It does not work. (test directory exists in /usr/malli) Same thing applys for all ftp commands like get, put, ... This is because, the 659th line of ftpcmd.y in ftpd checks if the first character in the path is ~ or not. If it is ~ then it does globbing else it does not. Following are few lines of the code if (logged_in && $1 && *$1 == '~') { glob_t gl; int flags = This behavior of ftp cd command is different from the unix cd command. I want to know whether this is the standard behavior of ftp or is this a bug?. Thanks in advance, Malli. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 22:46:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA18896 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 22:46:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maui.com (root@waena.mrtc.maui.com [199.4.33.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA18515 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 22:42:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caliban.dihelix.com (caliban.dihelix.com [199.4.33.251]) by maui.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA02362 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 19:43:13 -1000 Received: (from langfod@localhost) by caliban.dihelix.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA18152; Wed, 22 May 1996 19:41:14 -1000 (HST) Message-Id: <199605230541.TAA18152@caliban.dihelix.com> Subject: Re: Anybody using Xinside on -current? To: mrcpu@cdsnet.net (Jaye Mathisen) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 19:41:13 -1000 (HST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from Jaye Mathisen at "May 22, 96 05:10:52 pm" From: "David Langford" X-blank-line: This space intentionaly left blank. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jaye Mathisen > > >I'm thinking of making the jump to -current on my personal box, but want >to make sure that the Xinside server for my Matrox cards will work. > >Thanks in advance. Works wonderfully. No complaints. Running 1280x1024x24bpp on my Matrox card. -David Langford langfod@dihelix.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 22:51:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA19476 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 22:51:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA19470; Wed, 22 May 1996 22:51:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA07031; Wed, 22 May 1996 23:51:34 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199605230551.XAA07031@rover.village.org> To: Jeffrey Hsu Subject: Re: src/gnu Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 22 May 1996 16:13:59 PDT Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 23:51:34 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : > Apart from that, wouldn't it make more sense to use the "ports" paradigm : > on them instead of checking in all the files ? In theory we should be : > running pretty much footool-9.3.tar.gz with a few patches, so why not : > speed up our CVS-tree by actually not checking in the thousands of files : : I agree with Poul. The bmake paradigm for gcc just isn't working. : If the ports model fits better, we should use that instead. One thing to consider is that the gnu software has a habbit of disappearing off the FTP sites after a while. This would force an ungrade or leave some people out in the cold should the FSF produce a series of bad releases of a certain program. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 22:53:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA19696 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 22:53:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA19681 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 22:53:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA07042; Wed, 22 May 1996 23:52:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199605230552.XAA07042@rover.village.org> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: stty -- not Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 22 May 1996 16:47:32 PDT Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 23:52:51 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : > stty -f /dev/ttyd1 onlcr : stty -f /dev/ttyld1 onlcr : should do the trick, I think. : This is actually quite well described here: : http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/handbook141.html#270 Any way to do this to the printer device (/dev/lpt0)? Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 23:10:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA21519 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 23:10:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA21512 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 23:10:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA07190; Thu, 23 May 1996 00:10:27 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199605230610.AAA07190@rover.village.org> To: Gary Aitken Subject: Re: stty -- not Cc: Sean Eric Fagan , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 22 May 1996 22:45:55 MDT Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 00:10:27 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : #ifdef ASIDE : Given that the handbook shows use of hex numbers, is there a : chance that historical usage allowed hex numbers, and any mods : should continue to allow hex numbers? Or was the handbook just : plain wrong? : #endif /* ASIDE */ You know, you could fix the bug in the handbook by posting patched (or send-pr'ing them) that allows this to work. Or you could pull a Tom and bet me that I couldn't do it by midnight.... :-) : If not, is the only way to get back to "normal" to reboot? I'm not sure that it is relevant to these problems, but NetBSD and OpenBSD had some fixes go in in the last couple of months to lpd that fixed a problem with setting and clearing bits of some sort. Has FreeBSD picked them up? A quick cvs log doesn't help :-(. A quick diff shows there to be some changes in this area between FreeBSD and NetBSD (at least between -stable and the latest sup I have from NetBSD). Something about the xc or xs being busted, but I can't recall now the details. Maybe that's the problem???? Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 23:11:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA21641 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 23:11:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA21634 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 23:11:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA07675; Thu, 23 May 1996 15:56:06 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605230626.PAA07675@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: stty -- not To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 15:56:05 +0930 (CST) Cc: garya@ics.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <1174.832808852@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at May 22, 96 04:47:32 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying: > > > stty -f /dev/ttyd1 onlcr > > stty -f /dev/ttyld1 onlcr > > should do the trick, I think. ttyid1, actually 8) 'l' is the lock device, 'i' is the initial-state device. > Jordan -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 23:21:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA23126 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 23:21:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nightmare.dreamchaser.org ([207.40.47.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA23111 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 23:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mofo (mofo.dreamchaser.org [206.230.42.91]) by nightmare.dreamchaser.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA00423; Thu, 23 May 1996 00:20:38 -0600 Message-ID: <31A403AB.3523@ics.com> Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 00:20:27 -0600 From: Gary Aitken Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b3 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4c) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Warner Losh CC: Sean Eric Fagan , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: stty -- not References: <199605230610.AAA07190@rover.village.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > : #ifdef ASIDE > : Given that the handbook shows use of hex numbers, is there a > : chance that historical usage allowed hex numbers, and any mods > : should continue to allow hex numbers? Or was the handbook just > : plain wrong? > : #endif /* ASIDE */ > > You know, you could fix the bug in the handbook by posting patched (or > send-pr'ing them) that allows this to work. Or you could pull a > Tom and bet me that I couldn't do it by midnight.... :-) Not sure if that was to me or Sean :-) I figure before I go mucking with anything, I want to know how it's supposed to work. You lost the bet already by my clock :-) > : If not, is the only way to get back to "normal" to reboot? > > I'm not sure that it is relevant to these problems, but NetBSD and > OpenBSD had some fixes go in in the last couple of months to lpd that > fixed a problem with setting and clearing bits of some sort. Has > FreeBSD picked them up? A quick cvs log doesn't help :-(. A quick > diff shows there to be some changes in this area between FreeBSD and > NetBSD (at least between -stable and the latest sup I have from > NetBSD). Something about the xc or xs being busted, but I can't > recall now the details. Maybe that's the problem???? As nearly as I can figure out, the bits we're talking about should be in the fc / fs set. But since I can't get them to work under any conditions, and noone has indicated they are broken in 2.1 which is what I'm running, I'm stumped. I assumed (silly me) that surely someone out there was running an old serial character printer, and would have a definitive answer. -- Gary Aitken garya@ics.com (business) garya@dreamchaser.org (personal) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 23:31:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA24500 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 23:31:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA24489 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 23:31:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA07373; Thu, 23 May 1996 00:31:43 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199605230631.AAA07373@rover.village.org> To: Gary Aitken Subject: Re: stty -- not Cc: Sean Eric Fagan , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 23 May 1996 00:20:27 MDT Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 00:31:43 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm not sure what the right and proper way to do this is, but I have a printcap entry: lp:bj200:Canon BJ-200e:\ :sh:lp=/dev/lpt0:sd=/var/spool/bj200:lf=/var/log/lpd-errs:mx#0: lc:bj200-crlf:Canon BJ-200e with CRLF translation:\ :sh:lp=/dev/lpt0:sd=/var/spool/bj200:lf=/var/log/lpd-errs:mx#0:\ :if=/usr/local/bin/addcr: ps:bj200-ps:Canon BJ-200e with PostScript translation:\ :sh:lp=/dev/lpt0:sd=/var/spool/bj200:lf=/var/log/lpd-errs:mx#0:\ :if=/usr/local/bin/psfilt: where addcr does the following: #!/bin/sh sed -e 's/$/^M/' echo ^L (the two character sequences above ^M, etc are really the actual control characters). I then print lpr -Plc xxx to print something that isn't raw bits for my printer. The ps entry is so I can print postscript files directly on my non-postscript printer with the aid of gs. I lost my psfilt program in the last great disk crash, but it was a simple hack of gsbj. Since I use aladdin gs, I get free pdf printing too :-). A kludge I know, but it even worked when I had the LA-50 hooked up to the machine, and that was a serial printer. I just let lpd open the LA-50 in raw mode and dealt with the problem elsewhere. Pointers to the right way to do this would be accepted joyfully. Warner P.S. I sent my last mail after midnight to give me an additional 24 hours to come up with something :-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 23:37:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA25151 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 23:37:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA25144 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 23:36:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.109]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id XAA01406 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 23:36:20 -0700 Received: (from dawes@localhost) by rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA13284; Thu, 23 May 1996 16:33:09 +1000 From: David Dawes Message-Id: <199605230633.QAA13284@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Subject: Re: X11R6.1 available... Should we use? To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 16:33:09 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at May 22, 96 05:44:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >takes to make a port. Does anyone on the XFree86 team know what the >status of XFree86 under X11R6.1 is? XFree86 3.1.2C does seem to be >integrated into X11R6.1 itself and there is also an odd directory named XFree86 3.1.2C is a snapshot of our R6.1-based code taken just prior to the R6.1 release. 3.1.2C is beta quality at best. Our recent beta releases (3.1.2D and 3.1.2E) are based on R6.1. We plan to have our next full release (3.2) ready later this year. >xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree98 which seems to be a subset of xfree86, >with no accompanying documentation! This is for the Japanese PC98 machines (which can run variants of FreeBSD, NetBSD and SVR4). I don't personally know much about these machines, other than that they are Intel-based, but have quite a different bus architecture to AT-style machines. David From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 22 23:57:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA27531 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 May 1996 23:57:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nightmare.dreamchaser.org ([207.40.47.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA27525 for ; Wed, 22 May 1996 23:57:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mofo (mofo.dreamchaser.org [206.230.42.91]) by nightmare.dreamchaser.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA00658; Thu, 23 May 1996 00:57:32 -0600 Message-ID: <31A40C51.4BBF@ics.com> Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 00:57:21 -0600 From: Gary Aitken Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b3 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4c) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Warner Losh CC: Sean Eric Fagan , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: stty -- not References: <199605230631.AAA07373@rover.village.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm not sure what the right and proper way to do this is, but I have a > printcap entry: ... > where addcr does the following: > > #!/bin/sh > sed -e 's/$/^M/' > echo ^L > > (the two character sequences above ^M, etc are really the actual > control characters). > > I then print lpr -Plc xxx to print something that isn't raw bits for > my printer. The ps entry is so I can print postscript files directly > on my non-postscript printer with the aid of gs. I lost my psfilt > program in the last great disk crash, but it was a simple hack of > gsbj. Since I use aladdin gs, I get free pdf printing too :-). > > A kludge I know, but it even worked when I had the LA-50 hooked up to > the machine, and that was a serial printer. I just let lpd open the > LA-50 in raw mode and dealt with the problem elsewhere. > > Pointers to the right way to do this would be accepted joyfully. I thought of doing that as well, but since the dang thing is *supposed* to work by tweaking the opost | onlcr bits, that seemed like the right way to do it. I figured since those bits have been in there working for years they couldn't possibly be broken (I may still be doing something wrong... At this point I can kludge it to work using stty or a filter; I guess it's time for some debugging. -- Gary Aitken garya@ics.com (business) garya@dreamchaser.org (personal) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 00:00:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA28015 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 00:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA27976 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 00:00:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA07661; Thu, 23 May 1996 01:00:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199605230700.AAA07661@rover.village.org> To: Gary Aitken Subject: Re: stty -- not Cc: Sean Eric Fagan , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 23 May 1996 00:57:21 MDT Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 00:59:59 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : I thought of doing that as well, but since the dang thing is *supposed* : to work by tweaking the opost | onlcr bits, that seemed like the : right way to do it. I figured since those bits have been in there : working for years they couldn't possibly be broken (I may still be : doing something wrong... At this point I can kludge it to work : using stty or a filter; I guess it's time for some debugging. That's what I thought too and wound up going the filter route because I couldn't get the setting the magic bits right to work :-(. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 00:07:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA28889 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 00:07:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA28867 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 00:07:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de) by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V5.0-4 #13110) id <01I51FU9BL5S001VQB@mail.rwth-aachen.de>; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:05:34 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA24557; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:12:21 +0200 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 09:12:20 +0200 (MET DST) From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Subject: Re: Anybody using Xinside on -current? In-reply-to: <199605230541.TAA18152@caliban.dihelix.com> To: langfod@dihelix.com (David Langford) Cc: mrcpu@cdsnet.net, hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: Christoph Kukulies Message-id: <199605230712.JAA24557@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL16 (25)] Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Jaye Mathisen > > > > > >I'm thinking of making the jump to -current on my personal box, but want > >to make sure that the Xinside server for my Matrox cards will work. > > > >Thanks in advance. > > Works wonderfully. No complaints. Running 1280x1024x24bpp on my Matrox card. > > -David Langford > langfod@dihelix.com > The Xinside 1.3 server sorks great here as well (1152x900x8bpp) on a W32p/PCI in an ASUS SP3G w. Amd5x86. So does the OpenGL extension. --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 00:41:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA03780 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 00:41:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc6.ihf.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.90.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA03765; Thu, 23 May 1996 00:41:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from thomas@localhost) by ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA15030; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:41:05 +0200 From: Thomas Gellekum Message-Id: <199605230741.JAA15030@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: src/gnu To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 09:41:04 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hsu@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605230551.XAA07031@rover.village.org> from Warner Losh at "May 22, 96 11:51:34 pm" Organization: Institut f. Hochfrequenztechnik, RWTH Aachen X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Warner Losh wrote: > : I agree with Poul. The bmake paradigm for gcc just isn't working. > : If the ports model fits better, we should use that instead. > > One thing to consider is that the gnu software has a habbit of > disappearing off the FTP sites after a while. This would force an > ungrade or leave some people out in the cold should the FSF produce a > series of bad releases of a certain program. The ports use $MASTER_SITES as fallback hosts in this case. Just another data point: I spent some time bmakeing texinfo-3.7 and I can't say I like the procedure. A port would have been easier. Maybe we could get by with a bsd.gnu.mk which sets things like $PREFIX, $GNU_CONFIGURE and such and then included bsd.ports.mk. Aside: how about a /usr/share/misc/config.site? This would be useful in any case, I think. tg From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 00:48:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA04697 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 00:48:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA04691 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 00:48:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by onyx.nervosa.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA01383 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 00:48:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 00:48:14 -0700 (PDT) From: "Chris J. Layne" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: just a small observation Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [coredump@onyx] ~> gcc -v -O3 -m486 -funroll-loops -pipe -o foo foo.c gcc version 2.6.3 /usr/libexec/cpp -lang-c -v -undef -D__GNUC__=2 -D__GNUC_MINOR__=6 -Dunix -Di386 -D__FreeBSD__=2 -D__unix__ -D__i386__ -D__FreeBSD__=2 -D__unix -D__i386 -Asystem(unix) -Asystem(FreeBSD) -Acpu(i386) -Amachine(i386) -D__OPTIMIZE__ foo.c | /usr/libexec/cc1 -quiet -dumpbase foo.c -m486 -O3 -version -funroll-loops -o - | /usr/bin/as - -o /var/tmp/cc0013731.o GNU CPP version 2.6.3GNU C version 2.6.3 (80386, BSD syntax) (80386, BSD syntax) compiled by GNU C version 2.6.3. #include "..." search starts here: #include <...> search starts here: /usr/include End of search list. /usr/bin/ld -e start -dc -dp -o foo /usr/lib/crt0.o /var/tmp/cc0013731.o /usr/lib/libgcc.a -lc /usr/lib/libgcc.a - cut ------------------------------ question, why does gcc cause ld to link in the libgcc library more than once? And is there any reason it isn't using the shared gcc library? == Chris Layne ======================================== Nervosa Computing == == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 00:48:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA04776 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 00:48:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA04755 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 00:48:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA08105; Thu, 23 May 1996 17:33:29 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605230803.RAA08105@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: stty -- not To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 17:33:28 +0930 (CST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605230552.XAA07042@rover.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at May 22, 96 11:52:51 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Warner Losh stands accused of saying: > > : > stty -f /dev/ttyd1 onlcr > : stty -f /dev/ttyld1 onlcr > : should do the trick, I think. > : This is actually quite well described here: > : http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/handbook141.html#270 > > Any way to do this to the printer device (/dev/lpt0)? It doesn't use the tty stack, and there's no support in the driver for it. You could add it fairly trivially though, if you so desired. > Warner -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 00:50:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA04972 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 00:50:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA04965 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 00:50:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA05274; Thu, 23 May 1996 17:47:40 +1000 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 17:47:40 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199605230747.RAA05274@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: garya@ics.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, sef@kithrup.com Subject: Re: stty -- not Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I did manage to get a inserted, but only by manually configuring >the printer using: > stty -f /dev/ttyid1 opost onlcr > stty -f /dev/ttyld1 opost onlcr >Attempting to manually configure the device using the locked device >alone, or the initialization device alone, did not work. >One can specifically set the initialization and locked state using stty. >Does using the - version of a flag lock them off, or simply return them >to their default, unlocked, condition? Using the - version on the lock state device returns the lock bits to their default, zero (no-lock), condition. You needed to lock the state because lpd always changes it to the wrong value. Then you needed to set the initial state because the default is wrong too. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 00:50:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA05057 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 00:50:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA05039; Thu, 23 May 1996 00:50:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA08123; Thu, 23 May 1996 17:35:25 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605230805.RAA08123@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: src/gnu To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 17:35:24 +0930 (CST) Cc: hsu@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605230551.XAA07031@rover.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at May 22, 96 11:51:34 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Warner Losh stands accused of saying: > : > : I agree with Poul. The bmake paradigm for gcc just isn't working. > : If the ports model fits better, we should use that instead. > > One thing to consider is that the gnu software has a habbit of > disappearing off the FTP sites after a while. This would force an > ungrade or leave some people out in the cold should the FSF produce a > series of bad releases of a certain program. There's nothing that says that we should still be tracking the 'latest and greatest' there either. You'd just make sure that ftp.freebsd.org and mirrors carried the distfiles for the appropriate versions. > Warner -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 01:23:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA08950 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 01:23:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.pa-consulting.com (ns.pa-consulting.com [193.118.224.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA08932 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 01:23:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SMTPGATE.PA-CONSULTING.COM by ns.pa-consulting.com (8.6.4) id JAA21793; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:31:44 +0100 Received: by SMTPGATE.PA-CONSULTING.COM with Microsoft Mail id <31A492F0@SMTPGATE.PA-CONSULTING.COM>; Thu, 23 May 96 09:31:44 PDT From: Duncan Barclay To: freebsd-hackers Subject: Strange things on 2.1R (gunzip broken) Date: Thu, 23 May 96 09:14:00 PDT Message-ID: <31A492F0@SMTPGATE.PA-CONSULTING.COM> Encoding: 41 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Last night I tried to uncompress something from the 2.1R ports/distfiles directory. Gunzip stopped with a crc error message after (subjectivly) short while. It used to work. I then tried copying a number of files off the cdrom and uncompressing from the disk drive. Same error. Then tried /stand/gunzip (a vote for by the way) but discovered it was compressed!!!! But that didnt uncompress either using /usr/bin/gunzip. So off to the live fileing system cdrom and used gunzip from there, which worked. Did a diff and _all_ of /usr/bin and /livefilesystem/usr/bin are different!!!! Recent changes (like Tuesday) to the machine are the addition of an Etherlink III card. The problem manifests itself with the following kernels: kernel + ep0 driver kernel + ep0 driver, disabled kernel without ep0 driver. kernel=stripped down kernel, with drivers for a basic machine (ie. sio[01]. lpt0. sc0, wdc[01], fd0, ft0, npx0) Hey Jordan this might be a useful addition to the conf directory for people with a basic machine and dont need the hassle of cutting the cruft out of GENERIC. Machine 486DX33 on a ISA/VESA motherboard. 2*IDE Drives and an ATAPI CDROM Everything worked fine before. Help. Things to do after work are extract a virgin copy of usr/bin from the distribution cdrom and diff it all. Try the generic kernel. Remove the EtherLInk III. Worry about data and do a backup. Thanks for any pointers. Duncan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 03:44:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA00276 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 03:44:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gaia.gol.com (gaia.gol.com [202.243.48.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA00271 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 03:44:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (joe@localhost) by gaia.gol.com (8.7.5/8.6.5) id TAA02017; Thu, 23 May 1996 19:44:47 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 19:44:47 +0900 (JST) From: Joe Kelly Subject: FreeBSD and a non US Keyboard. To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Cc: joe@gol.com Message-Id: Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I posted this to question yesterday and it may have been thre wrong place to do it. So can anyone tell me how to get the keyboard on my Japanese laptop to stop thinking its a US model. What should I change in my termcap. All ideas appreciated. Thanks in advance & Best Regards. Joe Kelly. ______________________________________________________________________ Global OnLine Japan. Dial-Up, Leased-Line, ISDN, Web Services & More. URL: Email Tel: +81-3-5330-9383, Fax: +81-3-5330-9320 ______________________________________________________________________ "To me clowns aren't funny, in fact they're kinda scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus and a clown killed my dad." - Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 04:01:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA01234 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 04:01:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ra.dkuug.dk (ra.dkuug.dk [193.88.44.193]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA01206 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 04:01:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sos@localhost) by ra.dkuug.dk (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA20446; Thu, 23 May 1996 12:40:47 +0200 Message-Id: <199605231040.MAA20446@ra.dkuug.dk> Subject: Re: FreeBSD and a non US Keyboard. To: joe@gaia.gol.com (Joe Kelly) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 12:40:47 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, joe@gol.com In-Reply-To: from "Joe Kelly" at May 23, 96 07:44:47 pm From: sos@FreeBSD.org Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Joe Kelly who wrote: > > > Hi, > > I posted this to question yesterday and it may have been thre wrong place > to do it. So can anyone tell me how to get the keyboard on my Japanese > laptop to stop thinking its a US model. What should I change in my > termcap. All ideas appreciated. You should use kdbcontrol to load a new keymap, see man kbdcontrol... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 04:22:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA03125 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 04:22:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA03118 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 04:22:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA03358; Thu, 23 May 1996 04:22:28 -0700 (PDT) To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: yves@CC.McGill.CA, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com Subject: Re: SDL cards In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 May 1996 21:09:55 PDT." <199605230409.VAA00718@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 04:22:28 -0700 Message-ID: <3356.832850548@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Let me know if I can be of any assistance , I am really, really tired > of my ISPs Ascend 400 . It tends to buckle under the weight of > FreeBSD :( I find this quite surprising - you used to LOVE your Ascend, Amancio - is that love affair over so quickly? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 04:27:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA03891 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 04:27:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA03881; Thu, 23 May 1996 04:27:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA03396; Thu, 23 May 1996 04:27:00 -0700 (PDT) To: Michael Smith cc: sos@FreeBSD.org, gpalmer@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, peter@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: src/gnu In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 May 1996 13:00:25 +0930." <199605230330.NAA06882@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 04:27:00 -0700 Message-ID: <3393.832850820@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If it's kept as a 'port' rather than mutilated and stuffed into the source > tree, it should _theoretically_ be easier to get the FSF people to accept > patches to it. I think the idea has a lot of merit. One plus is that with the ports collection model (and it's funny that I never thought of anything outside of /usr/ports including bsd.port.mk before, but thinking about it now it makes perfect sense :-), all the patches will always be broken out in ONE location and it becomes a very simple exercise to work with the FSF until your patches directory goes away - what other metric could be simpler? I'm not sure that having gcc bmake'd has ever bought us much anyway. Same goes for groff, for that matter. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 04:31:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA04699 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 04:31:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA04685 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 04:31:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id EAA01879; Thu, 23 May 1996 04:31:33 -0700 Message-Id: <199605231131.EAA01879@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: yves@CC.McGill.CA, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com Subject: Re: SDL cards In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 May 1996 04:22:28 PDT." <3356.832850548@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 04:31:32 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Let me know if I can be of any assistance , I am really, really tired > > of my ISPs Ascend 400 . It tends to buckle under the weight of > > FreeBSD :( > > I find this quite surprising - you used to LOVE your Ascend, Amancio - > is that love affair over so quickly? :-) > Lets see: FreeBSD box <-----> Ascend Pipeline 50 < ---ISDN ---> Ascend Pipeline 400 (ISP) My problem is related to my mbone tunnel . It tends to crash the Ascend Pipeline 400 or knock everyone else off the network. I am so pissed off about it that I am pacing back and forth thinking about other alternatives . My Ascend Pipeline 50 for normal everyday work is fine. Amancio Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 04:50:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA05979 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 04:50:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from enteract.com (root@enteract.com [206.54.252.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA05973 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 04:50:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tqbf@localhost) by enteract.com (8.7.5/8.7.6) id GAA06630 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 23 May 1996 06:50:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Thomas Ptacek Message-Id: <199605231150.GAA06630@enteract.com> Subject: [Q] ifconfig, alias, arp, wrong address To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 06:50:35 -0500 (CDT) Reply-To: tqbf@enteract.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Eek. I'm getting some wacky problems here, and I'd really like to know what exactly's going on. I'm running a box here with roughly 100 aliases on an Intel Ethernet NIC. For some weird reason, every once in a while, the interface displays (in ifconfig) one of the alias addresses instead of the real address. This is no big deal, because everything still works (including the "real" address)... more disconcerting, however, is that the netmask gets reset to 0xffffffff (the netmask for the alias address), causing arp to scream at me while I'm doing important things like IRC. I went through a phase where I suspected that perhaps the arp table had become polluted and ifconfig (or interface code) was resolving the IP address by looking up the arp entry associated with the ethernet address. However, if I do an arp -a, I don't see -any- entry for the ix0 interface. Any ideas? ---------------- Thomas Ptacek at EnterAct, L.L.C., Chicago, IL [tqbf@enteract.com] ---------------- main(){while(1)fork();} From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 05:09:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA06999 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 05:09:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA06994 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 05:09:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA03648; Thu, 23 May 1996 05:09:33 -0700 (PDT) To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: yves@CC.McGill.CA, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com Subject: Re: SDL cards In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 May 1996 04:31:32 PDT." <199605231131.EAA01879@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 05:09:33 -0700 Message-ID: <3646.832853373@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > My problem is related to my mbone tunnel . It tends to crash the > Ascend Pipeline 400 or knock everyone else off the network. > I am so pissed off about it that I am pacing back and forth thinking about > other alternatives . Ach so! That's interesting. So you want your ISP to go to a different solution on their end to talk to your PL50. It would indeed be _very very_ interesting to verify that a FreeBSD box with the Riscom PRI card could be an acceptable substitute for an Ascend 400! Quite a few people would sit up and take notice of that.. :-) AFAIK, no one is working on this exactly problem. Unless I miss my guess, John Hay is going to be working on the vanilla N2 boards which are simply aimed at T1/E1 users with no complex signaling or incoming ISDN phone calls as issues to deal with. This sounds like a slightly different project, and one we should approach SDL again with assuming that a) I'm not missing my guess and b) we can find someone interested in doing the project. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 05:18:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA07540 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 05:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA07535 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 05:18:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA03712; Thu, 23 May 1996 05:17:53 -0700 (PDT) To: tqbf@enteract.com cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Q] ifconfig, alias, arp, wrong address In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 May 1996 06:50:35 CDT." <199605231150.GAA06630@enteract.com> Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 05:17:53 -0700 Message-ID: <3710.832853873@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > For some weird reason, every once in a while, the interface displays > (in ifconfig) one of the alias addresses instead of the real address. > This is no big deal, because everything still works (including the "real" > address)... more disconcerting, however, is that the netmask gets reset > to 0xffffffff (the netmask for the alias address), causing arp to scream > at me while I'm doing important things like IRC. That's very strange indeed. Before we try to debug this, however, can you try something first? If you have *any* NIC other than the Intel Etherexpress around, could you try swapping that into this machine? The ix0 driver is really really broken in lots of interesting ways and is currently slated for a complete rewrite (pending the resolution of some paperwork issues with Intel), so I don't trust one in any machine (we have about 10 of them on a shelf, if anyone's interested in buying a stack of them real cheap :-). I'd suggest an SMC or Compex card of some sort - the things are very cheap these days! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 05:39:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA08647 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 05:39:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA08639 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 05:39:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from allegro.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0uMZ6I-000QYSC; Thu, 23 May 96 14:02 MET DST From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA14788 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:51:18 +0200 Message-Id: <199605231151.NAA14788@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: identd in /etc/inetd.conf? To: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 13:51:18 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just ran into a problem with a connection on my local net: May 23 12:12:00 freebie inetd[390]: cannot execute /usr/local/sbin/identd: No such file or directory May 23 12:12:00 freebie inetd[108]: /usr/local/sbin/identd: exit status 0x100 freebie is running 2.2-current, but the same problem would appear to exist on 2.1. Seems that /etc/inetd.conf contains: ident stream tcp wait root /usr/local/sbin/identd identd -w -t120 Unfortunately, this file doesn't exist on my system, and locate doesn't show anything useful, not even in the CVS repository. Am I missing something, or should this line be commented out? Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 05:56:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA09572 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 05:56:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA09564 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 05:56:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from chuck@localhost) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id IAA06692; Thu, 23 May 1996 08:55:33 -0400 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 08:55:33 -0400 From: Charles Green Message-Id: <199605231255.IAA06692@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> In-Reply-To: Sergey Stepanenko "Re: APC Powerchute" (May 23, 12:36) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Sergey Stepanenko Subject: Re: APC Powerchute Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sergey Stepanenko stands accused of saying: } Date: May 23, 12:36 } Subject: Re: APC Powerchute } On Wed, 22 May 1996, Charles Green wrote: } } README -> } Version for BSD/386 1.1 i386 } and SUN sparc Solaris 2.3 } } >> Well, i've got compiled for 2.0 FreeBSD version... (sns) } } ================================================================== [ Shortened... ] } Sergey Stepanenko - System/Network Administrator } Technical Director - Viaduk-Telecom, Inc } 10 Sagaidachnogo St., 254070 Kiev, Ukraine } tel. +38 (044) 4168267 tel./fax +38 (044) 4625090 } hostmaster@viaduk.net - sns@viaduk.net } } . . } }-- End of excerpt from Sergey Stepanenko I have an older copy of the above application. (I noticed some newer features). But thanks for the info :) -- Charles Green, PRC Inc. UN*X System Administration 22 Powell Ave. Apt. B UN*X Security & Whitesboro, NY 13492 Programming From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 05:58:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA09705 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 05:58:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA09700 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 05:58:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from chuck@localhost) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id IAA06714 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 23 May 1996 08:58:32 -0400 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 08:58:32 -0400 From: Charles Green Message-Id: <199605231258.IAA06714@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: RealAudio Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I resently e-mailed the RealAudio folks about a port to BSD/OS and/or FreeBSD and the reply I got was "We have it under consideration." I dare not make an assumption about what exactly this means. But I could make a guess ;) -- Charles Green, PRC Inc. UN*X System Administration 22 Powell Ave. Apt. B UN*X Security & Whitesboro, NY 13492 Programming From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 06:02:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA10149 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 06:02:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hamby1.lightside.net (hamby1.lightside.net [198.81.209.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA10129 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 06:02:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jehamby@localhost) by hamby1.lightside.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA00515; Thu, 23 May 1996 06:05:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 06:05:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby Message-Id: <199605231305.GAA00515@hamby1.lightside.net> To: jehamby@lightside.com, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: Java Workshop runs on FreeBSD! Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-MD5: /nHOtzvUILoBA6NySrm4yA== Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Jake Hamby stands accused of saying: > > > > Last night I made a quick attempt to run SunSoft's Java Workshop under > > the Linux JDK under FreeBSD-current. To my surprise, after hacking up > > You're aware that the JDK has been ported to FreeBSD quite some time > back? > > Search the archives for 'JDK' 'Green threads' and 'Jeffrey Hsu'. > > > ---Jake > > -- > ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ Yes, I do remember that. However, according to the post, the port is kind of flaky, it doesn't run appletviewer, although it is robust to recompile itself correctly it is probably not worth trying Java Workshop under. When a new version is released that is complete enough to run appletviewer, or if the current version is stable enough to try to bootstrap a better version (perhaps using FreeBSD/ELF ?) then I will definitely try that as a base for JWS. Thanks for correcting me, though. ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 06:25:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA11800 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 06:25:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA11795 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 06:25:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from chuck@localhost) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id JAA06992; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:25:13 -0400 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 09:25:13 -0400 From: Charles Green Message-Id: <199605231325.JAA06992@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> In-Reply-To: Jake Hamby "X11R6.1 available... Should we use?" (May 22, 17:44) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Jake Hamby Subject: Re: X11R6.1 available... Should we use? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk FYI: XFree86 3.1.2E is now available... Jake Hamby stands accused of saying: } Date: May 22, 17:44 } Subject: X11R6.1 available... Should we use? } I just discovered that X11R6.1 has been available since March. The } differences between X11R6 and R6.1 are fairly minor, mostly bug fixes and } completion of a few extensions formerly considered workInProgress. It } should be fully source, binary, and protocol compatible with X11R6. } Also, it is interesting to note the FreeBSD 2.1.0R is now officially } supported (it was FreeBSD 1.1 in X11R6). } } So the question is: When are we going to upgrade to X11R6.1? There } don't seem to be any compelling reasons not to, other than the effort it } takes to make a port. Does anyone on the XFree86 team know what the } status of XFree86 under X11R6.1 is? XFree86 3.1.2C does seem to be } integrated into X11R6.1 itself and there is also an odd directory named } xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree98 which seems to be a subset of xfree86, } with no accompanying documentation! } } ---Jake }-- End of excerpt from Jake Hamby -- Charles Green, PRC Inc. UN*X System Administration 22 Powell Ave. Apt. B UN*X Security & Whitesboro, NY 13492 Programming From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 06:30:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA12056 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 06:30:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA12051 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 06:30:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from chuck@localhost) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id JAA07019; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:30:14 -0400 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 09:30:14 -0400 From: Charles Green Message-Id: <199605231330.JAA07019@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> In-Reply-To: Michael Smith "Re: Java Workshop runs on FreeBSD!" (May 23, 11:47) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Michael Smith Subject: Re: Java Workshop runs on FreeBSD! Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It's my understanding (this may be flawed) that he doesn't have the appletviewer working... Michael Smith stands accused of saying: } Date: May 23, 11:47 } Subject: Re: Java Workshop runs on FreeBSD! } Jake Hamby stands accused of saying: } > } > Last night I made a quick attempt to run SunSoft's Java Workshop under } > the Linux JDK under FreeBSD-current. To my surprise, after hacking up } } You're aware that the JDK has been ported to FreeBSD quite some time } back? } } Search the archives for 'JDK' 'Green threads' and 'Jeffrey Hsu'. } } > ---Jake } } -- } ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ } ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ } ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ } ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ } ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ }-- End of excerpt from Michael Smith -- Charles Green, PRC Inc. UN*X System Administration 22 Powell Ave. Apt. B UN*X Security & Whitesboro, NY 13492 Programming From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 06:39:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA12415 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 06:39:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.r-style.ru ([194.220.124.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA12408 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 06:38:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anton.r-style.ru (anton.r-style.ru [194.220.124.222]) by ns.r-style.ru (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA02392 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 16:36:07 +0400 Message-ID: <31A46A35.5AD4@ns.r-style.ru> Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 17:37:57 +0400 From: Anton Organization: R-Style X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: sendmail.hf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=euc-kr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello! Where I can find file "sendmail.hf". I havn't this in /etc. Thanks. Anton. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 06:45:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA12752 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 06:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA12737 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 06:44:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA08996; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:29:13 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605231359.XAA08996@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: SDL cards To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 23:29:12 +0930 (CST) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, yves@CC.McGill.CA, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com In-Reply-To: <3356.832850548@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at May 23, 96 04:22:28 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying: > > > Let me know if I can be of any assistance , I am really, really tired > > of my ISPs Ascend 400 . It tends to buckle under the weight of > > FreeBSD :( > > I find this quite surprising - you used to LOVE your Ascend, Amancio - > is that love affair over so quickly? :-) The 400 is the multiport server. They're horrifically expensive, and apparently seriously underpowered. A friend of mine bought a P50 recently; it's the most amazingly dinky little unit - I was expexting something much larger. > Jordan -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 06:46:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA12820 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 06:46:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA12814 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 06:46:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA09016; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:30:56 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605231400.XAA09016@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: SDL cards To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 23:30:55 +0930 (CST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, yves@CC.McGill.CA, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com In-Reply-To: <199605231131.EAA01879@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at May 23, 96 04:31:32 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty Jr. stands accused of saying: > > > Lets see: > FreeBSD box <---> Ascend Pipeline 50 <--ISDN--> Ascend Pipeline 400 (ISP) > > My problem is related to my mbone tunnel . It tends to crash the > Ascend Pipeline 400 or knock everyone else off the network. > I am so pissed off about it that I am pacing back and forth thinking about > other alternatives . Buy another P50 and put it on their network 8) > Amancio -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 07:18:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA14939 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 07:18:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sierra.zyzzyva.com (ppp0.zyzzyva.com [198.183.2.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA14931; Thu, 23 May 1996 07:18:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zyzzyva.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sierra.zyzzyva.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id JAA23482; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:18:25 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199605231418.JAA23482@sierra.zyzzyva.com> To: "Gary Palmer" cc: Bruce Evans , davidg@root.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HSM for FreeBSD?, was Re: Who wants a DPT SCSI controller driver? In-reply-to: gpalmer's message of Wed, 22 May 1996 18:47:02 +0100. <10899.832787222@palmer.demon.co.uk> X-uri: http://www.zyzzyva.com/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 09:18:24 -0500 From: Randy Terbush Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Bruce Evans wrote in message ID > <199605220516.PAA10571@godzilla.zeta.org.au>: > > /bin/df and FFS's statfs() have cosmetic bugs in 2.1R. This was fixed > > on 1996/01/14 in -current. -stable is still broken. Sigh. > > Since CCD is now available for -stable too, is there any objection to > bringing the patches back from -current to -stable? > > Gary Please do. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 07:24:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA15450 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 07:24:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hamby1.lightside.net (hamby1.lightside.net [198.81.209.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA15379; Thu, 23 May 1996 07:24:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jehamby@localhost) by hamby1.lightside.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA00557; Thu, 23 May 1996 07:26:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: hamby1.lightside.net: jehamby owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 07:26:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby X-Sender: jehamby@hamby1 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Michael Smith , sos@freebsd.org, gpalmer@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, peter@freebsd.org Subject: Re: src/gnu In-Reply-To: <3393.832850820@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 May 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > If it's kept as a 'port' rather than mutilated and stuffed into the source > > tree, it should _theoretically_ be easier to get the FSF people to accept > > patches to it. I think the idea has a lot of merit. > > One plus is that with the ports collection model (and it's funny that > I never thought of anything outside of /usr/ports including > bsd.port.mk before, but thinking about it now it makes perfect sense :-), > all the patches will always be broken out in ONE location and > it becomes a very simple exercise to work with the FSF until your > patches directory goes away - what other metric could be simpler? > > I'm not sure that having gcc bmake'd has ever bought us much anyway. > Same goes for groff, for that matter. > > Jordan You know, this sounds like an excellent idea! I like the way that patches aren't jumbled up with the FSF source tree. I also like the idea that this makes it easier for end-users to upgrade, for example, GCC, on an experimental basis and have it install in the correct location (/usr/libexec) without much work, then if there are no problems, it is much easier to suggest that FreeBSD import the latest GCC. It also has the added bonus of making it easier to back up to old versions if something goes wrong. Also, in theory, this makes our CVS tree much smaller because we only need to include patches and a link to the FSF .tar.gz file. Then, a simple "make extract" before the make world, will extract all the .tar.gz files into the correct place (work subdirectory?) and everything proceeds normally. I like this idea! This won't work with programs like gas and ld, for which our version has diverged too much from the latest GNU binutils. Of course if we switch over to ELF, this becomes viable again. In the meantime, I propose the "ports" idea be used for GCC, CVS, RCS, groff, gzip, tar, and anything else in the tree from FSF. Even non-GPL stuff like ncurses would benefit from this! Comments? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ |Jake Hamby| Ask me about Unix, FreeBSD, Solaris, The Tick, Motif, or NT, eh?| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Hi, can I interest you in buying some meat over the phone?" -Lotus commercial From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 07:33:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA16207 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 07:33:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spinner.DIALix.COM (spinner.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.67]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA16191; Thu, 23 May 1996 07:33:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spinner.DIALix.COM (localhost.DIALix.oz.au [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.DIALix.COM (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA03506; Thu, 23 May 1996 22:32:55 +0800 (WST) Message-Id: <199605231432.WAA03506@spinner.DIALix.COM> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.6 3/24/96 To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: "Gary Palmer" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, peter@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: src/gnu In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 May 1996 20:00:34 GMT." <779.832795234@critter.tfs.com> Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 22:32:55 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Comments? What does our current cvs meister thing? >> >> (The reason behind the move is the fact that the import wasn't done >> properly in the first place, and if I remember, the tools were just >> brought over wholesale from the 1.x source tree rather than being >> seperately imported so that they could be mainained). > >Isn't the fundamental problem that nobody maintains them, rather than >how they're maintained ? Yes, that is more the problem IMHO. I dont think we have a lot of spare time/energy to sink into re-porting stuff to a new tree.. However, if we came up with a workable plan, we could import new stuff that way. Rod and I did a bit of work on a strategy for this before, I think it can still work, even though it's a bit of a pain to set up the first time. The other main problem is that CVS is really quite limited in it's vendor branch area when faced with a vendor source that moves/renames/etc a fair bit. This would not be a problem if we used something like P3 which handles renames while hardly raising an eyebrow (ie: you "import" the code in it's natural file layout and adapt the "view" of it so that it appears in a 4.4-style bmake'able tree.) (and before anybody asks "What's P3?", see http://www.p3.com/ and note the special (and extremely generous) FreeBSD arrangement) >Apart from that, wouldn't it make more sense to use the "ports" paradigm >on them instead of checking in all the files ? In theory we should be >running pretty much footool-9.3.tar.gz with a few patches, so why not >speed up our CVS-tree by actually not checking in the thousands of files >but rather access them by reference via the tar file ? That might be OK, but there's a few gotchas: 1: The sup users would be getting multi-megabyte files in a single lump 2: The files would have to be extracted, patched and then compiled as part of the build process... That'd add a fair bit of overhead to the disk space requirements (ie: gcc would start at a 20MB or so .tar file, then we'd extract 20MB of files out of it and compile half of them.) >That would also make it easier to show that we do the "GPL" thing... I am not too concerned with that really, as we pretty much comply with the intent of the requirements.. We are only obligated to offer the sources somehow, which includes over the internet (which we do), and the changes we make are also visible on the internet (Thanks to the CvsWeb interface that somebody (who's name escapes me) wrote) that allows access to the logs and histories etc. It just so happens that we also include a copy of the source on the CD's as well, and the files that we have modified are maked with the time it was modified (ie: the $Id$ line. The GPL does not require is to keep a history of changes in the file, nor a description of the change, just the time of the last change in our hands. IMHO, that's completely stupid as it's the most useless requirement, and especially since the majority of the GPL'ed stuff these days has ChangeLog files which do not comply with the letter of the GPL conditions). I'd better stop now before I start really ranting about the GPL. For a system that's meant to encourage "freedom of programming", all it's done is bitterly divide the non-commercial programming world into two groups, neither of which can freely use the other's source code.. So, the end result is that the non-commercial world has to reinvent each other's work which is an utter shame and only helps the proprietary companies get further ahead. >-- >Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. >http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. >whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc >. >Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. Cheers, -Peter From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 07:37:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA16557 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 07:37:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA16544; Thu, 23 May 1996 07:37:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA00792; Thu, 23 May 1996 07:37:38 -0700 (PDT) To: Jake Hamby cc: Michael Smith , sos@freebsd.org, gpalmer@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, peter@freebsd.org Subject: Re: src/gnu In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 May 1996 07:26:58 PDT." Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 07:37:37 -0700 Message-ID: <790.832862257@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > over to ELF, this becomes viable again. In the meantime, I propose the > "ports" idea be used for GCC, CVS, RCS, groff, gzip, tar, and anything > else in the tree from FSF. Even non-GPL stuff like ncurses would > benefit from this! Comments? I vote we start small on things that have historically required very infrequent modification, like gcc, groff, rcs and gzip. I'd hesitate to jump straight into something like ncurses, for example, as it's possible that we may be dinking around in there for awhile (Andrey always has a dozen things he has to fix to make it 8 bit clean again :-) and the ports model sucks for things you're trying to hack on more frequently in collaboration with others. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 07:56:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA17928 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 07:56:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA17923 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 07:56:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA15769; Thu, 23 May 1996 08:55:18 -0600 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 08:55:18 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605231455.IAA15769@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Chris J. Layne" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: just a small observation In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > /usr/bin/ld -e start -dc -dp -o foo /usr/lib/crt0.o /var/tmp/cc0013731.o > /usr/lib/libgcc.a -lc /usr/lib/libgcc.a .. > question, why does gcc cause ld to link in the libgcc library more than > once? Because there are dependencies that are necessary. > And is there any reason it isn't using the shared gcc library? Yes. Shared libraries should be for things that are *common* across OS's. Making *everything* a shared libraries means that anytime that library changes the user is forced to keep the old shlib around. For things like libgcc, anytime gcc is updated means the *entire* library is different. Making things like libc into shlibs is good, but the 'everything' is a shlib is a bad thing we've seen in the past. Having use 'real' shlibs for some time now, we have slowly moved back into what I would hope is an acceptable compromise between 'usefulness' and 'overboard'. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 08:02:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA18455 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 08:02:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fire.dkrz.de (fire.dkrz.de [136.172.110.250]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA18436 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 08:02:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from racer.dkrz.de (racer.dkrz.de [136.172.110.55]) by fire.dkrz.de (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA20486; Thu, 23 May 1996 17:01:05 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from gwk@localhost) by racer.dkrz.de (8.7.4/8.7.3) id RAA05186; Thu, 23 May 1996 17:00:06 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 17:00:06 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199605231500.RAA05186@racer.dkrz.de> From: "Georg-W. Koltermann" To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: <199605221230.WAA04592@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> (message from Michael Smith on Wed, 22 May 1996 22:00:21 +0930 (CST)) Subject: Re: 960501-SNAP: data corruption reading /dev/rwt0 (Wangtek) X-Attribution: gwk Reply-to: gwk@cray.com Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> Michael Smith writes: .... (stuff deleted) >> One week ago I got a new PC (586/100, 32MB, ASUS T2P4), and >> tried to install 960501-SNAP from tape. Turned out most of the >> files read from tape were corrupted, so the installation would >> abort after unpacking one or two files of the first dist. I >> switched to the shell on VT4 and tried to untar the tape >> manually, then cat | zcat | cpio -itv to check if I could read >> the pieces. The tar finished without an error indication, but >> typically the zcat would abort readily, so I could only list a >> few files from the archive. >> >> I untarred the same tape a couple of times, trying different >> block sizes on the tar command. Eventually (using a blocking >> count of 16) I could read the tape without corruption, and >> could install the snap. Michael> This sounds like the interface card isn't talking to the Michael> rest of the system very well. Have you tried fiddling Michael> with the ISA bus timing? Try increasing the back-to-back Michael> IO delay, 8- and 16-bit I/O waitstates, 8- and 16-bit DMA Michael> waitstates, etc., anything at all related to timing on Michael> the ISA bus. Also make sure the ISA bus clock is around Michael> 8MHz. Michael> >> Now with the snap loaded and running flawlessly, I want to read >> my backups from tape (cpio -H crc format), but again I am >> getting data corruption. When I look at the files extracted, >> they look fine up to a certain point where they just contain >> binary zeroes. I have again Michael> This sounds horribly like it's something getting out of Michael> sync. Not really. You see, that data corruptions does not happen randomly (and of course I know more today than I knew yesterday). a) Every point of corruption that I checked is exactly 512 bytes of data being replaced by binary zeroes. That's exactly one tape block. b) If I start reading from tape, then abort with ^C after I see the first messages about corrupted files, and then start the same extraction command again, corruption will typically happen at the same point as before. I. e. if I am extracting a cpio -H crc archive from tape, abort after the first couple of messages about bad CRC, then reenter the same cpio command again, I will see the same messages about bad CRC for the same files in the archive. c) There is a way how I can work around the problem: 1. Extract the whole tape file once with a big block size, say 64 kB. Let it run to completion, don't ^C out (sigh...). 2. Extract the same tape again, this time with a small block size (8 kB). The second pass will work without a singe error!!! Unfortunately subsequent passes will again result in corrupted data. I also changed the BIOS setup of my motherboard to the most conservative settings, i. e. what ASUS calls "BIOS defaults, for troubleshooting". That, among other things, inserts 8 wait states for 8 bit ISA I/O requests (my tape controller is a 8 bit adapter). NO CHANGE to data corruption, same problem as before. Just to be sure I tried extracting the tape with a generic 2.1.0-RELEASE kernel, booted from the install/fixit floppies, and that also showed the same problem. I think there is a software problem with the wt driver, maybe related to doing DMA on a 32 MB machine (bounce buffers?). Whether the problem appears or not depends on something done at wtopen() time. If something bad happens at wtopen() time, spurious tape blocks will be replaced by zeroes. If that bad thing does not happen during wtopen(), then all data until the next wtclose() will be read correctly. QUESTIONS: Is there an easy way how I can restrict my machine to using just the lower 16 MB of memory, so that bounce buffers will not be needed? Out of curiosity, does anyone run a wt type tape with an ISA bus adapter on a machine with more than 16 MB memory? Georg-W. Koltermann, gwk@cray.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 08:04:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA18666 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 08:04:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA18659 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 08:04:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA06568; Thu, 23 May 1996 17:02:20 +0200 (SAT) From: John Hay Message-Id: <199605231502.RAA06568@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: SDL cards To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 17:02:19 +0200 (SAT) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, yves@CC.McGill.CA, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com In-Reply-To: <3646.832853373@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "May 23, 96 05:09:33 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL16 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > My problem is related to my mbone tunnel . It tends to crash the > > Ascend Pipeline 400 or knock everyone else off the network. > > I am so pissed off about it that I am pacing back and forth thinking about > > other alternatives . > > Ach so! That's interesting. So you want your ISP to go to a > different solution on their end to talk to your PL50. It would indeed > be _very very_ interesting to verify that a FreeBSD box with the > Riscom PRI card could be an acceptable substitute for an Ascend 400! > Quite a few people would sit up and take notice of that.. :-) > > AFAIK, no one is working on this exactly problem. Unless I miss my > guess, John Hay is going to be working on the vanilla N2 boards which > are simply aimed at T1/E1 users with no complex signaling or incoming > ISDN phone calls as issues to deal with. This sounds like a slightly > different project, and one we should approach SDL again with assuming > that a) I'm not missing my guess and b) we can find someone interested > in doing the project. > > Jordan > Hmmmm. That is what I also understood, so I don't think you are missing your guess. :-) John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 08:11:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA19011 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 08:11:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from terra.stack.urc.tue.nl (terra.stack.urc.tue.nl [131.155.140.128]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA19000; Thu, 23 May 1996 08:11:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xaa.stack.urc.tue.nl (uucp@localhost) by terra.stack.urc.tue.nl (8.7.5) with UUCP id RAA02752; Thu, 23 May 1996 17:10:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from freebsd@localhost) by xaa.stack.urc.tue.nl (8.7.5/8.6.12) id RAA01585; Thu, 23 May 1996 17:08:22 +0200 (MET DST) From: FreeBSD matters of Mark Huizer (xaa) Message-Id: <199605231508.RAA01585@xaa.stack.urc.tue.nl> Subject: Re: src/gnu To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 17:08:21 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hsu@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605230551.XAA07031@rover.village.org> from Warner Losh at "May 22, 96 11:51:34 pm" Reply-To: xaa@stack.urc.tue.nl (Mark Huizer) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > : I agree with Poul. The bmake paradigm for gcc just isn't working. > : If the ports model fits better, we should use that instead. > > One thing to consider is that the gnu software has a habbit of > disappearing off the FTP sites after a while. This would force an > ungrade or leave some people out in the cold should the FSF produce a > series of bad releases of a certain program. > Does it really matter for gcc to be on a FreeBSD in the distfiles dir or in the source tree? The mirrors or FTP sites need the stuff anyway Mark From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 09:00:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA23354 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:00:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scooter.quickweb.com (scooter.quickweb.com [199.212.134.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA23347 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:00:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mark@localhost) by scooter.quickweb.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA14609; Thu, 23 May 1996 12:06:48 -0400 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 12:06:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Mayo To: Charles Green cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RealAudio In-Reply-To: <199605231258.IAA06714@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 May 1996, Charles Green wrote: > I resently e-mailed the RealAudio folks about a port to > BSD/OS and/or FreeBSD and the reply I got was "We have it under > consideration." Do you mean the client or the server? I run the server on FreeBSD with absolutely NO problems. -Mark :%t$sig -- Oops, thought I was in vi.. ------------------------------------------- | Mark Mayo mark@quickweb.com | | C-Soft www.quickweb.com | ------------------------------------------- > > I dare not make an assumption about what exactly this means. > But I could make a guess ;) > > -- > Charles Green, PRC Inc. UN*X System Administration > 22 Powell Ave. Apt. B UN*X Security & > Whitesboro, NY 13492 Programming > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 09:07:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA24255 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:07:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA24245; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:07:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0uMcv0-0003x0C; Thu, 23 May 96 09:07 PDT Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA01676; Thu, 23 May 1996 01:53:20 GMT To: Warner Losh cc: Jeffrey Hsu , hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: src/gnu In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 May 1996 23:51:34 CST." <199605230551.XAA07031@rover.village.org> Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 01:53:15 +0000 Message-ID: <1674.832816395@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > : > Apart from that, wouldn't it make more sense to use the "ports" paradig m > : > on them instead of checking in all the files ? In theory we should be > : > running pretty much footool-9.3.tar.gz with a few patches, so why not > : > speed up our CVS-tree by actually not checking in the thousands of file s > : > : I agree with Poul. The bmake paradigm for gcc just isn't working. > : If the ports model fits better, we should use that instead. > > One thing to consider is that the gnu software has a habbit of > disappearing off the FTP sites after a while. This would force an > ungrade or leave some people out in the cold should the FSF produce a > series of bad releases of a certain program. Well, all >we< have to do is to keep it around, right ? :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 09:18:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA25164 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:18:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA25156 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:18:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from chuck@localhost) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA07883; Thu, 23 May 1996 12:18:25 -0400 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 12:18:25 -0400 From: Charles Green Message-Id: <199605231618.MAA07883@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> In-Reply-To: Mark Mayo "Re: RealAudio" (May 23, 12:06) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Mark Mayo Subject: Re: RealAudio Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sorry, Client. Mark Mayo stands accused of saying: } Date: May 23, 12:06 } Subject: Re: RealAudio } On Thu, 23 May 1996, Charles Green wrote: } } > I resently e-mailed the RealAudio folks about a port to } > BSD/OS and/or FreeBSD and the reply I got was "We have it under } > consideration." } } Do you mean the client or the server? I run the server on FreeBSD with } absolutely NO problems. } } -Mark } } :%t$sig -- Oops, thought I was in vi.. } ------------------------------------------- } | Mark Mayo mark@quickweb.com | } | C-Soft www.quickweb.com | } ------------------------------------------- } } } } } > } > I dare not make an assumption about what exactly this means. } > But I could make a guess ;) } > } > -- } > Charles Green, PRC Inc. UN*X System Administration } > 22 Powell Ave. Apt. B UN*X Security & } > Whitesboro, NY 13492 Programming } > }-- End of excerpt from Mark Mayo -- Charles Green, PRC Inc. UN*X System Administration 22 Powell Ave. Apt. B UN*X Security & Whitesboro, NY 13492 Programming From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 09:31:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA26531 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lobster.wellfleet.com (lobster.corpeast.baynetworks.com [192.32.253.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA26524 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:30:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pobox.BayNetworks.com by lobster.wellfleet.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-4.1) id MAA20638; Thu, 23 May 1996 12:32:24 -0400 Received: from tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com by pobox.BayNetworks.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26983; Thu, 23 May 96 12:30:19 EDT Received: from localhost.engeast.baynetworks.com (localhost.engeast.baynetworks.com [127.0.0.1]) by tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA16425 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 12:30:18 -0400 Message-Id: <199605231630.MAA16425@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> X-Authentication-Warning: tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com: Host localhost.engeast.baynetworks.com didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: NFS interop problems... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 12:30:18 -0400 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm suffering from the (I think) well known interop problem with sun nfs servers, where you send a request to one port on the server and you get the reply from another port on the server, which FreeBSD (rightfully, I guess) tosses. [BTW, is there any easy workaround for this? Putting a static route for the client on the erver seems to work...] Something I don't understand is this: When I first try to mount the problem filesystem, the first datagram that get sent is this (cozumel-le0 is the server and tuva is the client): Ethernet Header byte 0 Destination 00:00:a2:c3:65:da 48 bits Wellfleet Source 00:c0:a8:35:cd:85 48 bits GVC Corporation Ethertype 0x800 16 bits IP Header (Internet Protocol) byte 14 Version IP 4 bits Header Length 5 32-bit words 4 bits Precedence ROUTINE 3 bits Type of Service NORMAL_SERVICE 4 bits Unused 0 1 bits Total Length 120 bytes 16 bits Identification 2582 16 bits Flags, Unused 0 1 bits Flags, DF bit MAY_FRAGMENT 1 bits Flags, MF bit LAST_FRAGMENT 1 bits Fragment Offset 0 * 8 octets 13 bits Time To Live 64 seconds/hops 8 bits Protocol UDP 8 bits Checksum 0x851d 16 bits Source Address tuva 32 bits Destination Address cozumel-le0 32 bits UDP Header byte 34 Source Port 0x40b 16 bits Destination Port 0x801 16 bits Length 100 bytes 16 bits Checksum 0x14f9 16 bits DATA byte 42 0: 00000001 00000000 00000002 000186a3 ................ 10: 00000002 00000001 00000001 00000014 ................ 20: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 30: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000707 ................ 40: 00000001 000a0000 00006f40 16df2c62 ..........o@..,b 50: 000a0000 00006f40 16df2c62 ......o@..,b And the reply I get (from cozumel, not cozumel-le0, sign), is this: Ethernet Header byte 0 Destination 00:00:a2:c3:65:da 48 bits Wellfleet Source 00:c0:a8:35:cd:85 48 bits GVC Corporation Ethertype 0x800 16 bits IP Header (Internet Protocol) byte 14 Version IP 4 bits Header Length 5 32-bit words 4 bits Precedence ROUTINE 3 bits Type of Service NORMAL_SERVICE 4 bits Unused 0 1 bits Total Length 56 bytes 16 bits Identification 2583 16 bits Flags, Unused 0 1 bits Flags, DF bit MAY_FRAGMENT 1 bits Flags, MF bit LAST_FRAGMENT 1 bits Fragment Offset 0 * 8 octets 13 bits Time To Live 255 seconds/hops 8 bits Protocol ICMP 8 bits Checksum 0x2dec 16 bits Source Address tuva 32 bits Destination Address cozumel 32 bits ICMP Header byte 34 Type Dest_Unreach 8 bits ICMP Destination Unreachable byte 35 Code PORT_UNREACHABLE 8 bits Checksum 0x2968 16 bits Unused 0 32 bits IP Header (Internet Protocol) byte 42 Version IP 4 bits Header Length 5 32-bit words 4 bits Precedence ROUTINE 3 bits Type of Service NORMAL_SERVICE 4 bits Unused 0 1 bits Total Length 124 bytes 16 bits Identification 208 16 bits Flags, Unused 0 1 bits Flags, DF bit MAY_FRAGMENT 1 bits Flags, MF bit LAST_FRAGMENT 1 bits Fragment Offset 0 * 8 octets 13 bits Time To Live 253 seconds/hops 8 bits Protocol UDP 8 bits Checksum 0 16 bits Source Address cozumel 32 bits Destination Address tuva 32 bits UDP Header byte 62 Source Port 0x801 16 bits Destination Port 0x40b 16 bits Length 104 bytes 16 bits Checksum NONE 16 bits So, The FreeBSD machine sends something to port 2049 (0x801) and I get a ``port unreachable'' from the server... The question is: What is port 2049? In /etc/services I see: nfsd 2049/udp nfs # NFS server daemon #PROBLEMS!============================================================= shilp 2049/tcp shilp 2049/udp #PROBLEMS!============================================================= What is this all about? -- Robert Withrow -- (+1 508 436 8256) BWithrow@BayNetworks.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 09:36:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA27307 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:36:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA27292 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:36:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA10114; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:36:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199605231636.KAA10114@rover.village.org> To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Subject: Re: identd in /etc/inetd.conf? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 23 May 1996 13:51:18 +0200 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 10:36:11 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : Unfortunately, this file doesn't exist on my system, and locate : doesn't show anything useful, not even in the CVS repository. Am I : missing something, or should this line be commented out? Comment it out. It is useless. Or run the following: #!/usr/local/bin/perl ($a, $b) = split(/[,\n\r ]+/,<>); print "$a , $b : OTHER : Warm-Fuzzy\r\n"; Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 09:57:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA29569 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:57:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA29564 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:57:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA25270 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:59:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 09:59:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Ports problem Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The supfile for ports-supfile in -stable doesn't have an entry for ports-misc, but the Makefile seems to think it should. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 10:05:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA00870 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:05:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA00864 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:05:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA26070 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:07:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 10:07:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Anybody seen a port of crack to FreeBSD? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gotta keep them users honest. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 10:12:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA01598 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:12:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA01574 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:12:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id JAA13415; Thu, 23 May 1996 09:48:37 +0100 (BST) To: Warner Losh cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: stty -- not In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 May 1996 23:52:51 MDT." <199605230552.XAA07042@rover.village.org> Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 09:48:36 +0100 Message-ID: <13413.832841316@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Warner Losh wrote in message ID <199605230552.XAA07042@rover.village.org>: > Any way to do this to the printer device (/dev/lpt0)? No, because it's not a TTY. You have to write an output filter to do that (shouldn't be too difficult to knock up a sed script to do it). Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 10:15:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA01970 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:15:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA01805 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:13:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id KAA13463; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:07:03 +0100 (BST) To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: src/gnu In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 May 1996 20:00:34 -0000." <779.832795234@critter.tfs.com> Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 10:07:03 +0100 Message-ID: <13461.832842423@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Poul-Henning Kamp wrote in message ID <779.832795234@critter.tfs.com>: > Apart from that, wouldn't it make more sense to use the "ports" paradigm > on them instead of checking in all the files ? In theory we should be > running pretty much footool-9.3.tar.gz with a few patches, so why not > speed up our CVS-tree by actually not checking in the thousands of files > but rather access them by reference via the tar file ? That would mean running up against the one flaw of the current ports system. I get my source code updates by CTM, and I am VERY happy with the fact that I just go to /usr/src and do what I want. I don't want to have to think ``do I have that tarball available, and if not, how bad is network congestion right now''. If something could be done about that, I'd be more than happy to see bsd.port.mk used in the main tree. Gary (making his point for those who, like him, still sit behind a dial-up modem) -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 10:19:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA02557 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:19:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA02547; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:19:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA10241; Thu, 23 May 1996 11:19:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199605231719.LAA10241@rover.village.org> To: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: stty -- not Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 23 May 1996 09:48:36 BST Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 11:19:05 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : No, because it's not a TTY. You have to write an output filter to do : that (shouldn't be too difficult to knock up a sed script to do it). That's what I'm doing right now... Kinda icky since some things I want passed through the filter and others I don't. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 10:26:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA03435 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:26:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA03430 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:26:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.transsys.com (localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.transsys.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA01516; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:23:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605231723.NAA01516@whizzo.transsys.com> X-Authentication-Warning: whizzo.transsys.com: Host localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Michael Smith cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), hasty@rah.star-gate.com, yves@CC.McGill.CA, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: SDL cards References: <199605231359.XAA08996@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 May 1996 23:29:12 +0930." <199605231359.XAA08996@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 13:23:57 -0400 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying: > > > > > Let me know if I can be of any assistance , I am really, really tired > > > of my ISPs Ascend 400 . It tends to buckle under the weight of > > > FreeBSD :( > > > > I find this quite surprising - you used to LOVE your Ascend, Amancio - > > is that love affair over so quickly? :-) > > The 400 is the multiport server. They're horrifically expensive, and > apparently seriously underpowered. The thing which may be the root of the problem is if you're expecting the box to do STAC compression on the ISDN B channels. You'll quickly run out of CPU on those boxes. The Ascend MAX 4000 has hardware compression support, so it's much less of an issue. "Expensive" is a relative question, as always. They do have the advantage of actually mostly working, so you'll save a lot of time trying to get ISDN D channel signaling software to work. And then tweaked to support the different phone switches, NI-1 vs. AT&T Custom, different switch software "features", etc. > A friend of mine bought a P50 recently; it's the most amazingly dinky > little unit - I was expexting something much larger. You should see the Pipeline 130 - T1 with built-in CSU/DSU and ISDN BRI with NT1 in the same sized box. Making it bigger than necessary only makes it cost more. I've got a P50 LS56 on a 56K Frame Relay circuit at home, and it works great. Disclaimer: at my day job, I work at UUNET Technologies, and we have about 500 Ascend MAX 4000 boxes deployed in the field on about 1000 ISDN PRI's. Having the product work is a big feature. Louis Mamakos From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 10:34:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA04196 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:34:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nightmare.dreamchaser.org ([207.40.47.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA04189 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:34:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mofo (mofo.dreamchaser.org [206.230.42.91]) by nightmare.dreamchaser.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA00298 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 11:33:45 -0600 Message-ID: <31A4A16D.76E2@ics.com> Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 11:33:34 -0600 From: Gary Aitken Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b3 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4c) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ifconfig bogus results? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just spent an hour trying to figure out why my ethernet port was dead after rebooting; everything else on the network was fine, but the freebsd box couldn't ping out and wouldn't respond to anything. Card is an SMC etherpower 8432T combo. netstat showed valid routes everywhere, but routes to other hosts on the ethernet would time out and disappear. Doing an ifconfig showed everything as "UP". However, I finally did the following: ifconfig de0 down ifconfig de0 up and away it went. Can anyone shed some light on this? What would cause ifconfig to show an up status, when it behaves as if it is down? My sysconfig lines look like this: network_interfaces="lo0 de0 ppp0" ifconfig_de0="inet 206.230.42.65 netmask 255.255.255.224" ifconfig_lo0="inet localhost" I've been having problems with the boot process stalling, and it is caused by this. When the above two ifconfig lines are added to netstart to bring the interface down and back up, I get the following when booting: de0: enabling AUI port and things come up ok. Without the above two lines, I never see the enabling AUI port message, which leads me to believe the interface is not really coming up with the normal ifconfig -- Gary Aitken garya@ics.com (business) garya@dreamchaser.org (personal) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 11:02:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA05847 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 11:02:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA05842 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 11:02:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA28944 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:07:45 -0400 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 14:07:45 -0400 Message-Id: <199605231807.OAA28944@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I think the board is under $500. I haven't looked into the prices for the software development kit. There are already people in both BSDI and FreeBSD moving on this. There will probably be licencing issues for STAC compression though. I still think it is worth following up on. If you look at the per B channel cost of a ASCEND MAX or Cisco 5200 UAS you can easily understand the excitement this card can generate. -mh On Wed, 22 May 1996, Louis A. Mamakos wrote: > > So how much is the board, and more importantly, how much is the ISDN > signalling software development kit? Framing the HDLC on the channels > is likely the easy part of this problem. > > louie > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 11:12:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA06577 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 11:12:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA06570 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 11:12:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from venus.mcs.com (root@Venus.mcs.com [192.160.127.92]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA08812; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:12:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: by venus.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Thu, 23 May 96 13:12 CDT Message-Id: Subject: Re: SDL cards To: louie@TransSys.COM (Louis A. Mamakos) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 13:12:05 -0500 (CDT) From: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, yves@CC.McGill.CA, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com In-Reply-To: <199605231723.NAA01516@whizzo.transsys.com> from "Louis A. Mamakos" at May 23, 96 01:23:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying: > > > > > > > Let me know if I can be of any assistance , I am really, really tired > > > > of my ISPs Ascend 400 . It tends to buckle under the weight of > > > > FreeBSD :( > > > > > > I find this quite surprising - you used to LOVE your Ascend, Amancio - > > > is that love affair over so quickly? :-) > > > > The 400 is the multiport server. They're horrifically expensive, and > > apparently seriously underpowered. > > The thing which may be the root of the problem is if you're expecting > the box to do STAC compression on the ISDN B channels. You'll quickly > run out of CPU on those boxes. The Ascend MAX 4000 has hardware > compression support, so it's much less of an issue. Right. > "Expensive" is a relative question, as always. They do have the > advantage of actually mostly working, so you'll save a lot of time > trying to get ISDN D channel signaling software to work. And then > tweaked to support the different phone switches, NI-1 vs. AT&T Custom, > different switch software "features", etc. > > > A friend of mine bought a P50 recently; it's the most amazingly dinky > > little unit - I was expexting something much larger. > > You should see the Pipeline 130 - T1 with built-in CSU/DSU and ISDN > BRI with NT1 in the same sized box. Making it bigger than necessary > only makes it cost more. I've got a P50 LS56 on a 56K Frame Relay > circuit at home, and it works great. Yeah, ain't that a neat box? An ISPs dream - T1 access with integrated ISDN dial backup (!) on one or two "B" channels. I love those damn things; now if I could just get some shipped! :-) Oh, they're cheap too (~$2k). CISCO, watch out in the access router marketplace; you have some serious competition out there. > Disclaimer: at my day job, I work at UUNET Technologies, and we have > about 500 Ascend MAX 4000 boxes deployed in the field on about 1000 > ISDN PRI's. Having the product work is a big feature. > > Louis Mamakos Yep. I run MCSNet, and we switched about a month ago from traditional modems to Maxen as well. We also find that they work quite well. Still some software quirks, but I'd never go back to the old way. Being able to get 500+ lines in one 84" cabinet is a big plus :-) -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | T1 from $600 monthly; speeds to DS-3 available Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1] | 21 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net/ ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's only FULL Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 11:48:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA08728 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 11:48:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA08672; Thu, 23 May 1996 11:47:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA06580 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Thu, 23 May 1996 22:45:57 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Thu, 23 May 96 22:45:56 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA00836; Thu, 23 May 1996 22:15:17 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: <199605231815.WAA00836@astral.msk.su> Subject: Re: X11R6.1 available... Should we use? To: green@fang.cs.sunyit.edu (Charles Green) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 22:15:16 +0400 (MSD) Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@freebsd.org, jmz@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605231325.JAA06992@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> from "Charles Green" at "May 23, 96 09:25:13 am" From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > FYI: XFree86 3.1.2E is now available... > Can we upgrade our ports x11/XFree86 to 3.1.2E please? -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 11:57:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA09323 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 11:57:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA09318 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 11:57:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from venus.mcs.com (root@Venus.mcs.com [192.160.127.92]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA10794; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:57:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: by venus.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Thu, 23 May 96 13:57 CDT Message-Id: Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU To: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 13:57:40 -0500 (CDT) From: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605231807.OAA28944@etinc.com> from "Dennis" at May 23, 96 02:07:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I think the board is under $500. I haven't looked into the prices for the > software development kit. There are already people in both BSDI and > FreeBSD moving on this. > > There will probably be licencing issues for STAC compression though. I > still think it is worth following up on. > > If you look at the per B channel cost of a ASCEND MAX or Cisco 5200 UAS > you can easily understand the excitement this card can generate. > > -mh Huh? A base ISDN-only ASCEND MAX is about $15,000 from many of the resellers out there. This handles 47 ports, for a per-port cost of $312.00. That's not bad, and in fact is less expensive than most analog-line solutions. Its also a one-box 4.5" high solution that painlessly and easily goes right into a rack configuration. Add about $2000 to that price (for the HDLC slotcard) and the same unit handles 95 ports, or $178 per "port". This is too expensive? Hell, you can't even buy a decent modem *alone* for that money! Again, note - no spinning media, no PC-bus issues, RADIUS support, classless routing support, high density, supported, etc etc etc. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | T1 from $600 monthly; speeds to DS-3 available Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1] | 21 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net/ ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's only FULL Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 12:29:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA11279 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 12:29:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA11274 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 12:29:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA29049; Thu, 23 May 1996 15:34:55 -0400 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 15:34:55 -0400 Message-Id: <199605231934.PAA29049@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Karl D. writes... >Again, note - no spinning media, no PC-bus issues.... I really hate this garbage argument. Novell servers with uptimes over a year are commonplace...PC bus, spinning media and all. you only have problems with drives that are too fast, too hot and too overworked, which simply isnt the case with a router scenario. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 12:51:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA13020 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 12:51:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA13015 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 12:51:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from venus.mcs.com (root@Venus.mcs.com [192.160.127.92]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA12657; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:51:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: by venus.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Thu, 23 May 96 14:51 CDT Message-Id: Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU To: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 14:51:40 -0500 (CDT) From: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605231934.PAA29049@etinc.com> from "Dennis" at May 23, 96 03:34:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Karl D. writes... > > >Again, note - no spinning media, no PC-bus issues.... > > I really hate this garbage argument. Novell servers with uptimes > over a year are commonplace...PC bus, spinning media and all. > you only have problems with drives that are too fast, too hot and > too overworked, which simply isnt the case with a router scenario. > > Dennis Yeah, and I have BSD boxes with uptimes in the hundreds of days too. I also have CISCOs under management with uptimes measured in *years*. One in particular with an uptime of over *four* years. The *normal* reason that these CISCOs reboot is because the power goes away (usually intentionally and for maintenance purposes). An awful lot of the *CORE* hardware on my backbone has never had an unsolicited reload, and it works VERY hard. In general, moving parts mean lower reliability. Further, not one PC (or component) builder in 1000 knows item #1 about thermal engineering, which is why all those drives, power supplies, and motherboards burn up and burn out. Fans on processors? With REAL MTBFs in the single-digit-thousand hour ranges? Yeah, right. I'll cook my eggs on the stove rather than on my Pentium, thank you very much. There's nothing wrong with a PC architecture machine per-se. Its the people who build them that are all air between the ears. This includes, by the way, some awfully big names in the industry. The problem is money. If you do the thermal engineering studies, and properly design airflow and fan arrays for a PC, and work around and expect for one of these to be "failed" (and still not burn up) you just put enough on the price of the average PC that its no longer "cheaper" than the dedicated hardware built specifically for the job. Further, there is absolutely no contest when it comes to density in the dial access marketplace. ASCEND hardware wins hands-down over any and all other comers in this market at present, period. And they are quite (but not perfectly) clueful in both the ISDN and analog arenas. That's why National ISPs, and smaller regional ISPs who know what they're doing, are choosing them over the other contenders -- including the so-called "pc router in a box" folks. The "PC card router" people have a niche, yes. But that equipment is just not in the same class as the mainstream dedicated hardware built specifically for the job at hand. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | T1 from $600 monthly; speeds to DS-3 available Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1] | 21 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net/ ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's only FULL Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 13:01:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA13625 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:01:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA13619 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:01:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA08125; Thu, 23 May 1996 12:54:21 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605231954.MAA08125@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: X11R6.1 available... Should we use? To: dawes@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (David Dawes) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 12:54:21 -0700 (MST) Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605230633.QAA13284@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> from "David Dawes" at May 23, 96 04:33:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree98 which seems to be a subset of xfree86, > >with no accompanying documentation! > > This is for the Japanese PC98 machines (which can run variants of FreeBSD, > NetBSD and SVR4). I don't personally know much about these machines, > other than that they are Intel-based, but have quite a different bus > architecture to AT-style machines. We should integrate the changes for PC98 support directly so that there is no need to have seperately maintained variants. This includes keyboard layout, etc., not just the obvious areas. Any Japanese takers? I have been unable to get a PC98 here in the US for this type of thing. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 13:02:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA13704 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:02:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA13699 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:02:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA08141; Thu, 23 May 1996 12:56:11 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605231956.MAA08141@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD and a non US Keyboard. To: joe@gaia.gol.com (Joe Kelly) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 12:56:11 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, joe@gol.com In-Reply-To: from "Joe Kelly" at May 23, 96 07:44:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I posted this to question yesterday and it may have been thre wrong place > to do it. So can anyone tell me how to get the keyboard on my Japanese > laptop to stop thinking its a US model. What should I change in my > termcap. All ideas appreciated. man kbdcontrol. You need a different keymap. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 13:06:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA14048 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:06:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA14043 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:06:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA08163; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:00:28 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605232000.NAA08163@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Java Workshop runs on FreeBSD! To: green@fang.cs.sunyit.edu (Charles Green) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 13:00:28 -0700 (MST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605231330.JAA07019@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> from "Charles Green" at May 23, 96 09:30:14 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It's my understanding (this may be flawed) that he doesn't have > the appletviewer working... As a point of interest, are you using the BSDI "Atlas" version of NetScape, like you should be, or are you using the Linux version? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 13:10:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA14313 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:10:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netcom5.netcom.com (hasty@netcom5.netcom.com [192.100.81.113]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA14289 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:09:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from hasty@localhost) by netcom5.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id NAA06215; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:09:52 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 13:09:52 -0700 From: hasty@netcom.com (Amancio Hasty Jr) Message-Id: <199605232009.NAA06215@netcom5.netcom.com> To: green@fang.cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: RealAudio Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Don't worry about RealAudio. There are other serious technologies under consideration 8) Enjoy, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 13:14:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA14708 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:14:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA14703 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:14:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA08183; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:09:13 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605232009.NAA08183@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: NFS interop problems... To: bwithrow@BayNetworks.com (Robert Withrow) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 13:09:13 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605231630.MAA16425@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> from "Robert Withrow" at May 23, 96 12:30:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm suffering from the (I think) well known interop > problem with sun nfs servers, where you send a request > to one port on the server and you get the reply from > another port on the server, which FreeBSD (rightfully, > I guess) tosses. [BTW, is there any easy workaround > for this? Putting a static route for the client on the > erver seems to work...] The typical workaround is to use TCP instead of UDP for NFS transport. The send source/dest problem for aliased hosts is well known. There is an update in the next version of the TCP/IP code (not the CSRG stuff, from the place CSRG got thair stuff), which is unreleased and supposedly won't be released for 9 months or so (Van Jabobsen, I think). One alternative would be to put in another card and run the aliases on the "remote" card and the NFS off the "local" card so there isn't any alias interaction. Alternately, you could disable the security code in the NFS that causes it to drop reply packets from the wrong hosts. 8-|. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 13:22:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA15383 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:22:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nightmare.dreamchaser.org ([207.40.47.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA15378 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:21:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mofo (mofo.dreamchaser.org [206.230.42.91]) by nightmare.dreamchaser.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA01272 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:21:56 -0600 Message-ID: <31A4C8D9.2648@ics.com> Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 14:21:45 -0600 From: Gary Aitken Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b3 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4c) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: stty -- not Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've determined that the right bit to set in printcap for a tty device to force ONLCR and OPOST is CRMOD: fs:0x10 (The corresponding structure is an sgttyb) The reason it doesn't work is that the tty (/dev/ttyd1 in this case) is in raw mode, and attempting to do ioctl(pfd, TIOCSETP, (char *)&ttybuf) succeeds only partially. The reason is that in ttcompatsetflags (tty_compat.c), if raw mode is set, all output flags settings are ignored. Should /dev/ttyd1 normally be in raw mode? I haven't put it in raw mode intentionally... There's not a getty or anything running on the line. Killing the raw mode bit as well (fc#0x20) makes things work, but I'm wondering if there isn't something more fundamental which is screwed up. -- Gary Aitken garya@ics.com (business) garya@dreamchaser.org (personal) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 13:29:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA16021 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:29:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netcom22.netcom.com (hasty@netcom22.netcom.com [192.100.81.136]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA16015 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:29:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from hasty@localhost) by netcom22.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id NAA07959; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:29:19 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 13:29:19 -0700 From: hasty@netcom.com (Amancio Hasty Jr) Message-Id: <199605232029.NAA07959@netcom22.netcom.com> To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: SDL cards Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, yves@CC.McGill.CA Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Buy another P50 and put it on their network 8) Given that my ISP has disconnected me again because I left mrouted running all nite long . May you have a very good idea. Of course, I would love to shoot AScend however in the near short term buying a second Ascend Pipeline 50 may be the quickest way to fix the problem. Argggh.., Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 13:30:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA16058 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:30:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (root@zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA16016 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:29:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from father.ludd.luth.se (father.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.18]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.7.5/8.7.2) with ESMTP id WAA12495 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 22:29:40 +0200 From: Tomas Klockar Received: (dateck@localhost) by father.ludd.luth.se (8.6.11/8.6.11) id WAA23134 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 23 May 1996 22:29:10 +0200 Message-Id: <199605232029.WAA23134@father.ludd.luth.se> Subject: SCSI hostadapter To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 22:29:09 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a SCSI host adapter which I would like to use in freebsd The brand is NexStor NXT-82 Its a VL-Bus FAST SCSI-2 Host adapter Its using a a NCR 53C700-66 curcuit It memorymaps the data. HELP /Tomas -- Tomas Klockar can be found at the following adresses: Kårhusvägen 4, 2:43 | Furuvägen 102 | dateck@ludd.luth.se 977 54 Luleå | 871 52 Härnösand | dateck@solace.mh.se Tel: +46-920-229391 | Tel: +46-611-13393 | d94-tkl@sm.luth.se From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 13:46:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA17447 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:46:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA17436 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:46:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (coredump@onyx.nervosa.com [10.0.0.1]) by onyx.nervosa.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA02745; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:45:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 13:45:29 -0700 (PDT) From: "Chris J. Layne" To: Greg Lehey cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: identd in /etc/inetd.conf? In-Reply-To: <199605231151.NAA14788@allegro.lemis.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 May 1996, Greg Lehey wrote: > I just ran into a problem with a connection on my local net: > > May 23 12:12:00 freebie inetd[390]: cannot execute /usr/local/sbin/identd: No such file or directory > May 23 12:12:00 freebie inetd[108]: /usr/local/sbin/identd: exit status 0x100 > > freebie is running 2.2-current, but the same problem would appear to > exist on 2.1. Seems that /etc/inetd.conf contains: > > ident stream tcp wait root /usr/local/sbin/identd identd -w -t120 > Whoever manages the port of pidentd, this should be /usr/local/libexec, NOT /usr/local/sbin. Identd is spawned by inetd, so therefore it should be in /usr/local/libexec. > Unfortunately, this file doesn't exist on my system, and locate > doesn't show anything useful, not even in the CVS repository. Am I > missing something, or should this line be commented out? > Greg Get the port of pidentd in the ports dirs. == Chris Layne ======================================== Nervosa Computing == == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 14:10:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA19650 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:10:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA19644 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:10:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.transsys.com (localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.transsys.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA01758; Thu, 23 May 1996 16:08:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605232008.QAA01758@whizzo.transsys.com> X-Authentication-Warning: whizzo.transsys.com: Host localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, yves@CC.McGill.CA, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: SDL cards References: In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 May 1996 13:12:05 CDT." Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 16:08:46 -0400 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Oh, they're cheap too (~$2k). CISCO, watch out in the access router > marketplace; you have some serious competition out there. Not to mention the competition they have in the central site router in the MAX 4000 class. While this box may seem pricey, it's quite remarkable in the tricks it can do for you. Especially if you have a channelized T1 with some dedicated circuits and voice channels that you'd like to zing off to your PBX. It can, for example, translate the usual loop start/ground start/wink start signalling on a channelized T1 into ISDN signalling on a PRI (looking like a switch) to drive your ISDN capable PBX. > > Disclaimer: at my day job, I work at UUNET Technologies, and we have > > about 500 Ascend MAX 4000 boxes deployed in the field on about 1000 > > ISDN PRI's. Having the product work is a big feature. > > > > Louis Mamakos > > Yep. I run MCSNet, and we switched about a month ago from traditional > modems to Maxen as well. We also find that they work quite well. Still > some software quirks, but I'd never go back to the old way. Yup, once you've done it, you realize how good it can be. I couldn't *imagine* installing any dial facilities using 2 wire analog loops, or even a pile 'o BRI lines. You get so much better density and lower costs with the digital entrance facilities, not to mention being more reliable and easier to maintain. > Being able to get 500+ lines in one 84" cabinet is a big plus :-) Yeah, did I mention density? And no stinking RS232 cables... louie From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 14:25:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA21334 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:25:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cabri.obs-besancon.fr (cabri.obs-besancon.fr [193.52.184.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA21315 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:25:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by cabri.obs-besancon.fr (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA18768; Thu, 23 May 96 23:28:29 +0100 Date: Thu, 23 May 96 23:28:29 +0100 Message-Id: <9605232228.AA18768@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> From: Jean-Marc Zucconi To: ache@astral.msk.su Cc: green@fang.cs.sunyit.edu, jehamby@lightside.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605231815.WAA00836@astral.msk.su> (ache@astral.msk.su) Subject: Re: X11R6.1 available... Should we use? X-Mailer: Emacs Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA =FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A Chernov, Black Mage) writes: >> >> FYI: XFree86 3.1.2E is now available... >> > Can we upgrade our ports x11/XFree86 to 3.1.2E please? Sources are not yet available. 3.1.2E is a binary distribution. Jean-Marc > -- > Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, > ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - > http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. > RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 _____________________________________________________________________________ Jean-Marc Zucconi Observatoire de Besancon F 25010 Besancon cedex PGP Key: finger jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 14:26:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA21405 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:26:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA21386 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:26:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA29233; Thu, 23 May 1996 17:31:23 -0400 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 17:31:23 -0400 Message-Id: <199605232131.RAA29233@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Karl D. writes... >> >> >Again, note - no spinning media, no PC-bus issues.... >> >> I really hate this garbage argument. Novell servers with uptimes >> over a year are commonplace...PC bus, spinning media and all. >> you only have problems with drives that are too fast, too hot and >> too overworked, which simply isnt the case with a router scenario. >> >> Dennis > >Yeah, and I have BSD boxes with uptimes in the hundreds of days too. > >I also have CISCOs under management with uptimes measured in *years*. One >in particular with an uptime of over *four* years. The *normal* reason >that these CISCOs reboot is because the power goes away (usually >intentionally and for maintenance purposes). An awful lot of the >*CORE* hardware on my backbone has never had an unsolicited reload, >and it works VERY hard. Gee, my provider uses Ciscos and they're doing "maintenance" on them like once a month. Software upgrade or not...if you bring it down, it ain't up "for years", and I cant imagine anyone still using the crap that cisco was selling 4 years ago without upgrading..... > >In general, moving parts mean lower reliability. Further, not one PC >(or component) builder in 1000 knows item #1 about thermal engineering, >which is why all those drives, power supplies, and motherboards burn up >and burn out. Fans on processors? With REAL MTBFs in the >single-digit-thousand hour ranges? Yeah, right. For someone whos rich and idealistic, yeah :-). I'll bet that if you asked 100 people if they'd deal with a crash every 8 or 9 months to save $10,000 on a box they'd go for it 98 to 2, and we know who 1 of those 2 would be..... Dennis From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 14:27:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA21500 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:27:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA21487 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:27:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA10953; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:26:48 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA11551; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:26:48 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA18211; Thu, 23 May 1996 20:32:19 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605231832.UAA18211@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: sendmail.hf To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 20:32:19 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: anton@ns.r-style.ru (Anton) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <31A46A35.5AD4@ns.r-style.ru> from Anton at "May 23, 96 05:37:57 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Anton wrote: [Charset euc-kr unsupported, skipping...] `locate' is your friend: j@uriah 129% locate sendmail.hf | fgrep share /usr/share/misc/sendmail.hf -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 14:28:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA21660 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:28:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA21594 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:28:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA11051; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:27:51 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA11600; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:27:51 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA19170; Thu, 23 May 1996 22:51:48 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605232051.WAA19170@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: identd in /etc/inetd.conf? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 22:51:48 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605231151.NAA14788@allegro.lemis.de> from Greg Lehey at "May 23, 96 01:51:18 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Greg Lehey wrote: > ident stream tcp wait root /usr/local/sbin/identd identd -w -t120 > > Unfortunately, this file doesn't exist on my system, and locate > doesn't show anything useful, not even in the CVS repository. Am I > missing something, or should this line be commented out? It should. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 14:28:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA21710 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:28:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA21618 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:28:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA10997; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:27:18 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA11566; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:27:03 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA18589; Thu, 23 May 1996 21:35:25 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605231935.VAA18589@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Anybody using Xinside on -current? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 21:35:25 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: langfod@dihelix.com, mrcpu@cdsnet.net Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605230712.JAA24557@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> from "Christoph P. Kukulies" at "May 23, 96 09:12:20 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Christoph P. Kukulies wrote: > > >I'm thinking of making the jump to -current on my personal box, but want > > >to make sure that the Xinside server for my Matrox cards will work. > > Works wonderfully. No complaints. Running 1280x1024x24bpp on my Matrox card. Doesn't work on my colleague's box, for reasons that are not yet known. Any mouse causes crazy pointer events, regardless whether he uses the PS/2 mouse or a serial MouseSystems one. This is with the March CD-ROM Snapshot, and an ELSA Winner 1000 S3 86C928 board. XFree86 3.1.2 works. We're going to try it on a 2.1-stable kernel again to find the reasons. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 14:28:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA21744 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:28:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA21659 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:28:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA11006; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:27:20 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA11581; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:27:20 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA18349; Thu, 23 May 1996 20:52:33 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605231852.UAA18349@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: 960501-SNAP: data corruption reading /dev/rwt0 (Wangtek) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 20:52:33 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: gwk@cray.com Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605231500.RAA05186@racer.dkrz.de> from "Georg-W. Koltermann" at "May 23, 96 05:00:06 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Georg-W. Koltermann wrote: > Not really. You see, that data corruptions does not happen randomly > (and of course I know more today than I knew yesterday). > > a) Every point of corruption that I checked is exactly 512 bytes of > data being replaced by binary zeroes. That's exactly one tape > block. It sounds like a DMA problem. I remember the drive worked for me until recently, that is, about two months ago. I haven't tested it ever since (and it's currently on loan to some other FreeBSDer around). > I think there is a software problem with the wt driver, maybe related > to doing DMA on a 32 MB machine (bounce buffers?). Whether the Normally, you don't need (explicit -- i.e. the config option) bounce buffers, since wt isn't a bus-master DMA device, but rather uses the lame motherboard DMAC. The motherboard DMA code used to have bounce buffers all the time, and if that one were broken, your floppies wouldn't work either. (It needs it also for transfers that span a 64 KB boundary.) > Is there an easy way how I can restrict my machine to using just the > lower 16 MB of memory, so that bounce buffers will not be needed? options "MAXMEM=16384" > Out of curiosity, does anyone run a wt type tape with an ISA bus > adapter on a machine with more than 16 MB memory? Nope, my spam machine has only 8 MB, and that's where the wt tape is normally located. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 14:29:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA22031 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:29:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cabri.obs-besancon.fr (cabri.obs-besancon.fr [193.52.184.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA22011; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:29:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by cabri.obs-besancon.fr (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA18819; Thu, 23 May 96 23:33:01 +0100 Date: Thu, 23 May 96 23:33:01 +0100 Message-Id: <9605232233.AA18819@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> From: Jean-Marc Zucconi To: gpalmer@freebsd.org Cc: phk@critter.tfs.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <13461.832842423@palmer.demon.co.uk> (gpalmer@FreeBSD.ORG) Subject: Re: src/gnu X-Mailer: Emacs Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Gary Palmer" writes: > Poul-Henning Kamp wrote in message ID > <779.832795234@critter.tfs.com>: >> Apart from that, wouldn't it make more sense to use the "ports" paradigm >> on them instead of checking in all the files ? In theory we should be >> running pretty much footool-9.3.tar.gz with a few patches, so why not >> speed up our CVS-tree by actually not checking in the thousands of files >> but rather access them by reference via the tar file ? > That would mean running up against the one flaw of the current ports > system. I get my source code updates by CTM, and I am VERY happy with > the fact that I just go to /usr/src and do what I want. I don't want > to have to think ``do I have that tarball available, and if not, how > bad is network congestion right now''. Seconded. > If something could be done about that, I'd be more than happy to see > bsd.port.mk used in the main tree. > Gary (making his point for those who, like him, still sit behind a > dial-up modem) Thanks Gary! :-) Jean-Marc > -- > Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member > FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info _____________________________________________________________________________ Jean-Marc Zucconi Observatoire de Besancon F 25010 Besancon cedex PGP Key: finger jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 14:29:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA22058 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:29:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA21722 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:28:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA11021; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:27:32 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA11585; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:27:25 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA18623; Thu, 23 May 1996 21:39:14 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605231939.VAA18623@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: APC Powerchute To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 21:39:14 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: sns@viaduk.net, green@fang.cs.sunyit.edu (Charles Green) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605221851.OAA08375@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> from Charles Green at "May 22, 96 02:51:10 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Charles Green wrote: > I've got a copy of upsd(don't remember the rev.), But I was playing > around with some of the options available with powerchute and thought > it would be neat to be able to use them. I had to install PowerChute on the SCO box of a customer some time ago. The scripts accompanying the software looked so terrible that i would never install it on a system of my own. Alexis Yushin's upsd at least has a thoughtful and extensible design. If there are features missing for you, why not try to extend it? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 14:33:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA22649 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:33:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA22641 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:33:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from venus.mcs.com (root@Venus.mcs.com [192.160.127.92]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA21593; Thu, 23 May 1996 16:33:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: by venus.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Thu, 23 May 96 16:33 CDT Message-Id: Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU To: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 16:33:34 -0500 (CDT) From: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605232131.RAA29233@etinc.com> from "Dennis" at May 23, 96 05:31:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> Karl D. writes... > >> > >> >Again, note - no spinning media, no PC-bus issues.... > >> > >> I really hate this garbage argument. Novell servers with uptimes > >> over a year are commonplace...PC bus, spinning media and all. > >> you only have problems with drives that are too fast, too hot and > >> too overworked, which simply isnt the case with a router scenario. > >> > >> Dennis > > > >Yeah, and I have BSD boxes with uptimes in the hundreds of days too. > > > >I also have CISCOs under management with uptimes measured in *years*. One > >in particular with an uptime of over *four* years. The *normal* reason > >that these CISCOs reboot is because the power goes away (usually > >intentionally and for maintenance purposes). An awful lot of the > >*CORE* hardware on my backbone has never had an unsolicited reload, > >and it works VERY hard. > > Gee, my provider uses Ciscos and they're doing "maintenance" on them > like once a month. Software upgrade or not...if you bring it down, it ain't > up "for years", and I cant imagine anyone still using the crap that cisco > was selling 4 years ago without upgrading..... Gee, your provider might have other issues. > >In general, moving parts mean lower reliability. Further, not one PC > >(or component) builder in 1000 knows item #1 about thermal engineering, > >which is why all those drives, power supplies, and motherboards burn up > >and burn out. Fans on processors? With REAL MTBFs in the > >single-digit-thousand hour ranges? Yeah, right. > > For someone whos rich and idealistic, yeah :-). > > I'll bet that if you asked 100 people if they'd deal with a crash every 8 or 9 > months to save $10,000 on a box they'd go for it 98 to 2, and we know > who 1 of those 2 would be..... If the numbers were anything CLOSE to what you are citing here, you'd have a point. They're not, and you know it. I've lived in this world for 15 years and built real, no-nonsense commercial networks the entire time. Reality isn't a dream, or a wish, its reality... I also have no financial stake in this debate or my position in it. That is, no firm which I own, operate, work for or own stock in wins or loses if you (or I) am right. You do. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | T1 from $600 monthly; speeds to DS-3 available Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1] | 21 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net/ ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's only FULL Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 14:41:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA23559 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:41:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netcom13.netcom.com (hasty@netcom13.netcom.com [192.100.81.125]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA23551 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:41:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from hasty@localhost) by netcom13.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id OAA22189; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:41:04 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 14:41:04 -0700 From: hasty@netcom.com (Amancio Hasty Jr) Message-Id: <199605232141.OAA22189@netcom13.netcom.com> To: louie@TransSys.COM, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: SDL cards Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, yves@CC.McGill.CA Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Disclaimer: at my day job, I work at UUNET Technologies, and we have >about 500 Ascend MAX 4000 boxes deployed in the field on about 1000 >ISDN PRI's. Having the product work is a big feature. > >Louis Mamakos Yes, but are you using MBONE thru any of those Ascend MAX 4000 boxes. Also, I am interested if any of those Ascend MAX 4000 have a couple of 128kb tunnels going thru them. Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 14:42:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA23697 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:42:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA23598 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:41:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id WAA24637; Thu, 23 May 1996 22:22:21 +0100 (BST) To: Anton cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: sendmail.hf In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 May 1996 17:37:57 +0400." <31A46A35.5AD4@ns.r-style.ru> Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 22:22:20 +0100 Message-ID: <24635.832886540@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Anton wrote in message ID <31A46A35.5AD4@ns.r-style.ru>: > Hello! > Where I can find file "sendmail.hf". > I havn't this in /etc. -r--r--r-- 1 root bin - 3152 Mar 28 01:29 /usr/share/misc/sendmail.hf It's not a configuration file, and should not live in /etc under the FreeBSD filesystem layout. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 14:43:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA23749 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:43:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA23740 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:43:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id XAA15234 ; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:42:54 +0200 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id XAA14520 ; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:42:48 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.5/keltia-uucp-2.7) id XAA18951; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:25:14 +0200 (MET DST) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199605232125.XAA18951@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: just a small observation To: coredump@nervosa.com (Chris J. Layne) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 23:25:13 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Chris J. Layne" at "May 23, 96 00:48:14 am" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1983 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL16 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Chris J. Layne said: > question, why does gcc cause ld to link in the libgcc library more than > once? And is there any reason it isn't using the shared gcc library? I don't know for the double call to libgcc but for the shared libgcc, we don't have one since early '95: ------------------------------------------------------------ phk 95/03/06 00:00:24 Modified: gnu/usr.bin/ld ld.c Log: Never again shall we link libgcc dynamic. It was a big mistake in the first place and we were too long in finding out. Now we know, and the damage is hard to fix. This is part one: ld will not link gcc dynamic, if specified as "-lgcc". Suggested by: dyson & davidg phk 95/03/06 00:04:06 Modified: gnu/usr.bin/cc/libgcc Makefile Log: Don't make the shared libgcc. I don't belive we need the libgcc_pic.a anymore, so I killed that as well. ------------------------------------------------------------ -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #2: Fri May 10 21:09:14 MET DST 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 14:45:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA23985 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA23936 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:44:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-1) with ESMTP id WAA24651; Thu, 23 May 1996 22:27:39 +0100 (BST) To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Hackers) From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: identd in /etc/inetd.conf? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 May 1996 13:51:18 +0200." <199605231151.NAA14788@allegro.lemis.de> Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 22:27:39 +0100 Message-ID: <24648.832886859@palmer.demon.co.uk> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greg Lehey wrote in message ID <199605231151.NAA14788@allegro.lemis.de>: > ident stream tcp wait root /usr/local/sbin/identd identd -w -t120 ^^^^^ > Unfortunately, this file doesn't exist on my system, and locate > doesn't show anything useful, not even in the CVS repository. Am I > missing something, or should this line be commented out? The fact it's in `local' should pretty much tell you that we don't ship it. I don't I've ever come a FreeBSD box that I've installed which had identd enabled by default, as (a) not a lot of people like it and (b) its a port... Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 14:55:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA24779 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:55:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA24772 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:55:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA29325; Thu, 23 May 1996 18:01:16 -0400 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 18:01:16 -0400 Message-Id: <199605232201.SAA29325@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> I'll bet that if you asked 100 people if they'd deal with a crash every 8 or 9 >> months to save $10,000 on a box they'd go for it 98 to 2, and we know >> who 1 of those 2 would be..... > >If the numbers were anything CLOSE to what you are citing here, you'd have a >point. > >They're not, and you know it. I dont know that. > >I've lived in this world for 15 years and built real, no-nonsense commercial >networks the entire time. Reality isn't a dream, or a wish, its reality... > you're only 15 years old? you seem older :-) >I also have no financial stake in this debate or my position in it. That >is, no firm which I own, operate, work for or own stock in wins or loses if >you (or I) am right. Karl, as much as i respect your experience, I've been reading your stuff for "a long time" and one conclusion that is very clear is that you are anything but mainstream. No offense, but you're on the wrong list if you think that theres no limit to the quality/cost issue, particularly when its not clear that there is still a substantial quality advantage with the "big boys". A pentium 133 with 2 T1 ports and 2 ethernets can totally blow the doors off a 2500 series for the same money and add a couple more T1s and it easily matches or outperforms a 4000 series for 1/3 the cost. To say you're not going to consider it because its a PC is pretty '80sish if you ask me. Cisco is just coming out with frame relay congestion management now, for petes sake (when the rest of the world has had it for a year); they're not even a market leader anymore. I just got off the phone with someone whos ISP told them that they'd be paying a substantial "throughput penalty" by running a RISC-based card in their Pentium instead of using a Livingston 56k FR external router. What planet are these guys living on, anyway? And didnt Ascend just acquire morningstar?...I guess they think theres a place for PC routers in the marketplace, why dont you? Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 14:59:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA24976 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:59:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA24971 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 14:59:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA29329; Thu, 23 May 1996 18:04:50 -0400 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 18:04:50 -0400 Message-Id: <199605232204.SAA29329@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: software "quirks" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Yep. I run MCSNet, and we switched about a month ago from traditional >modems to Maxen as well. We also find that they work quite well. Still >some software quirks, but I'd never go back to the old way. quirks? what happened to "years of uptime" :-) dennis From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 15:17:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA26578 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 15:17:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA26556 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 15:17:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from venus.mcs.com (root@Venus.mcs.com [192.160.127.92]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA23827; Thu, 23 May 1996 17:17:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: by venus.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Thu, 23 May 96 17:17 CDT Message-Id: Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU To: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 17:17:43 -0500 (CDT) From: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605232201.SAA29325@etinc.com> from "Dennis" at May 23, 96 06:01:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >I've lived in this world for 15 years and built real, no-nonsense commercial > >networks the entire time. Reality isn't a dream, or a wish, its reality... > > > you're only 15 years old? you seem older :-) > > >I also have no financial stake in this debate or my position in it. That > >is, no firm which I own, operate, work for or own stock in wins or loses if > >you (or I) am right. > > Karl, as much as i respect your experience, I've been reading your stuff for > "a long time" and one conclusion that is very clear is that you are anything > but mainstream. No offense, but you're on the wrong list if you think that >theres no limit to the quality/cost issue, particularly when its not clear that > there is still a substantial quality advantage with the "big boys". A > pentium 133 > with 2 T1 ports and 2 ethernets can totally blow the doors off a 2500 series > for the same money and add a couple more T1s and it easily matches or > outperforms a 4000 series for 1/3 the cost. To say you're not going to > consider > it because its a PC is pretty '80sish if you ask me. Cisco is just coming out > with frame relay congestion management now, for petes sake (when the rest > of the world has had it for a year); they're not even a market leader anymore. > >I just got off the phone with someone whos ISP told them that they'd be > paying a > substantial "throughput penalty" by running a RISC-based card in their > Pentium instead > of using a Livingston 56k FR external router. What planet are these guys > living on, > anyway? > > And didnt Ascend just acquire morningstar?...I guess they think theres a > place for > PC routers in the marketplace, why dont you? > > Dennis > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com > > Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For > Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame > Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD > and LINUX Its simple Dennis. Tell me why Alternet, ANS, NearNet, Sprint, MCI, BBNPlanet, MCSNet, AGIS, and nearly every other *real* ISP out there doesn't run these routers if they REALLY are a better mousetrap. Tell me why my customers want to buy things like ASCEND P130s instead of these boxes. Start THERE. You have a market to protect. I don't. That's going to bias the equation and your opinions, whether conscious or not. Frankly, I believe the marketing and sales people ought to stay the hell off the FreeBSD lists, and I happen to LIKE the operating system (and use it in what I believe is its intended place). Show up at a public peering point with one of these "routers" and see how many of the real players will trust the data coming from that hacked gated and will peer freely with you. Then look at the thrash rate and explain how you think you can route under convergence situations with anything approaching a real (as in 34 - 45mbps HSSI-class) load without melting completely. The real world ain't made up of one and two port boxes. In the end-customer locations where it is, the new products like the ASCEND P130 blow the doors off a PC solution, are more stable, and *CHEAPER*. LOTS cheaper. Build me an end-user router for $2,000 using your solution *INCLUDING* all software, hardware, CSU/DSU, etc -- electrical RJ-45 T1 to Ethernet, end-to-end. The SDL board *ALONE* is close to $1,000, and you haven't bought a processor, RAM, disk drive, case, power supply, display, etc. Oh, make sure you include BRI ISDN backup capability in that box. The P130 does, fully integrated, dial-on-demand. Now figure the fact that the $2,000 P130 price is a LIST price, and is typically discounted 20-30%, that this thing draws something like 18 watts, and can literally be stuck on a wall near the Ethernet concentrator that feeds your offices, while your "PC" requires not only a keyboard and monitor (big and bulky) but draws a couple of hundred heat-producing watts from the wall. 'Nuff said. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | T1 from $600 monthly; speeds to DS-3 available Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1] | 21 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net/ ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's only FULL Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 15:19:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA26708 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 15:19:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA26700 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 15:19:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA08500; Thu, 23 May 1996 15:13:34 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605232213.PAA08500@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: SCSI hostadapter To: dateck@ludd.luth.se (Tomas Klockar) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 15:13:34 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199605232029.WAA23134@father.ludd.luth.se> from "Tomas Klockar" at May 23, 96 10:29:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have a SCSI host adapter which I would like to use in freebsd > The brand is NexStor NXT-82 > Its a VL-Bus FAST SCSI-2 Host adapter > Its using a a NCR 53C700-66 curcuit > It memorymaps the data. I believe the NCR 53c7xx series (I don't recognize the "53C700-66" in particular, though) are not supported because they are very low end components, for which no one has written a driver. These are the same chips in AMD SCSI/Net ethernet/SCSI chips on the motherboard of some Compaq systems. You should use another card (~US$75 for an NCR 8xx series, one of the best available), or write a driver (for which you will need another working machine, or another card, and docs for the 7xx chips; on the plus side, yyou should be able to use the 8xx driver as a template). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 15:23:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA27232 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 15:23:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA27199 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 15:23:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from campa.panke.de (anonymous222.ppp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.222]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA28915; Fri, 24 May 1996 00:11:27 +0200 Received: (from wosch@localhost) by campa.panke.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA03396; Thu, 23 May 1996 22:41:41 +0200 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 22:41:41 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider Message-Id: <199605232041.WAA03396@campa.panke.de> To: Anton Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: sendmail.hf In-Reply-To: <31A46A35.5AD4@ns.r-style.ru> References: <31A46A35.5AD4@ns.r-style.ru> Reply-to: Wolfram Schneider MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk $ locate sendmail.hf /usr/share/misc/sendmail.hf anton@ns.r-style.ru writes: >Hello! >Where I can find file "sendmail.hf". >I havn't this in /etc. >Thanks. >Anton. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 16:04:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA01084 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 16:04:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA01078 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 16:04:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA29413; Thu, 23 May 1996 19:09:26 -0400 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 19:09:26 -0400 Message-Id: <199605232309.TAA29413@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >I've lived in this world for 15 years and built real, no-nonsense commercial >> >networks the entire time. Reality isn't a dream, or a wish, its reality... >> > >> you're only 15 years old? you seem older :-) >> >> >I also have no financial stake in this debate or my position in it. That >> >is, no firm which I own, operate, work for or own stock in wins or loses if >> >you (or I) am right. >> >> Karl, as much as i respect your experience, I've been reading your stuff for >> "a long time" and one conclusion that is very clear is that you are anything >> but mainstream. No offense, but you're on the wrong list if you think that >>theres no limit to the quality/cost issue, particularly when its not clear that >> there is still a substantial quality advantage with the "big boys". A >> pentium 133 >> with 2 T1 ports and 2 ethernets can totally blow the doors off a 2500 series >> for the same money and add a couple more T1s and it easily matches or >> outperforms a 4000 series for 1/3 the cost. To say you're not going to >> consider >> it because its a PC is pretty '80sish if you ask me. Cisco is just coming out >> with frame relay congestion management now, for petes sake (when the rest >> of the world has had it for a year); they're not even a market leader anymore. >> >>I just got off the phone with someone whos ISP told them that they'd be >> paying a >> substantial "throughput penalty" by running a RISC-based card in their >> Pentium instead >> of using a Livingston 56k FR external router. What planet are these guys >> living on, >> anyway? >> >> And didnt Ascend just acquire morningstar?...I guess they think theres a >> place for >> PC routers in the marketplace, why dont you? >> >> Dennis >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com >> >> Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For >> Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame >> Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD >> and LINUX > >Its simple Dennis. > >Tell me why Alternet, ANS, NearNet, Sprint, MCI, BBNPlanet, MCSNet, AGIS, >and nearly every other *real* ISP out there doesn't run these routers if >they REALLY are a better mousetrap. Of course, most of the guys you listed arent end-user ISPs as their main business...so you're off base. Of course BBN is one of my largest customers...so they must be doing something with PCs! I never said it was a better mousetrap, just a viable alternative. Plus your talking scale, for which PCs arent gonna compete with 7000s for density. Most big companies have to use only a handful of products otherwise support is a nightmare....Sprint insists on Ciscos because they know them and they can support them, not because their better or the only ones that work. Your problem is that you think that you're a real ISP and the tens of thousands of little guys aren't. You probably think that people who live in small apartments arent people, but like the small ISPs theres a lot more of them than there are "big guys". Perhaps when you go to buy a car, you dont consider anything that isnt a mercedes, or BMW or Lexus. But like i said, you're not mainstream. > >Tell me why my customers want to buy things like ASCEND P130s instead of >these boxes. Im sure that you dont talk them into it or anything.....Most isps try to get their customers to use what they do....less problems. Christ, most ISPs are running proprietary encapsulation over frame relay and dont even know it. You dont have to know what your doing if all of your customers use the same equipment with the same defaults as you do. >You have a market to protect. I don't. That's going to bias the equation >and your opinions, whether conscious or not. Actually, I have a market to SERVICE. Theres demand, lots of it and your statements indicate that either dont understand the small-isp market or you dont care. Denying that the rest of the world exists is ridiculous. > >Frankly, I believe the marketing and sales people ought to stay the hell off >the FreeBSD lists, and I happen to LIKE the operating system (and use it in >what I believe is its intended place). Uh...well Im also a developer...are you? >Show up at a public peering point with one of these "routers" and see how >many of the real players will trust the data coming from that hacked gated >and will peer freely with you. Then look at the thrash rate and explain how >you think you can route under convergence situations with anything >approaching a real (as in 34 - 45mbps HSSI-class) load without melting >completely. as i said, your not mainstream. We're talking about low-end routers here and your talking about backgone T3 switches. > >The real world ain't made up of one and two port boxes. Remember that most of the connections in the world are leafs, and for every ISP with a 7000 theres 30 guys with 1 t1 or less. >In the end-customer locations where it is, the new products like the ASCEND >P130 blow the doors off a PC solution, are more stable, and *CHEAPER*. > >LOTS cheaper. > >Build me an end-user router for $2,000 using your solution *INCLUDING* all >software, hardware, CSU/DSU, etc -- electrical RJ-45 T1 to Ethernet, >end-to-end. The SDL board *ALONE* is close to $1,000, and you haven't >bought a processor, RAM, disk drive, case, power supply, display, etc. > >Oh, make sure you include BRI ISDN backup capability in that box. The P130 >does, fully integrated, dial-on-demand. > >Now figure the fact that the $2,000 P130 price is a LIST price, and is >typically discounted 20-30%, that this thing draws something like 18 >watts, and can literally be stuck on a wall near the Ethernet concentrator >that feeds your offices, while your "PC" requires not only a keyboard and >monitor (big and bulky) but draws a couple of hundred heat-producing watts >from the wall. requires a keyboard and monitor? Where've you been the past decade? Well guess what? for less than $3000. I can give you a 4 T1 system with full bgp peering thats faster than a 4XXX series, with 100Mbs ethernet...shall i go on? 'Nuff said. dennis From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 16:28:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA03468 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 16:28:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from moonpie.w8hd.org (moonpie.w8hd.org [198.252.159.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA03446 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 16:28:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from kimc@localhost) by moonpie.w8hd.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id TAA10866; Thu, 23 May 1996 19:28:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 19:28:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Kim Culhan To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Anybody using Xinside on -current? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Running fine here on an ASUS P55TP4XE with a Matrox Millennium. kim -- kimc@w8hd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 16:49:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA06086 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 16:49:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA06075; Thu, 23 May 1996 16:48:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA11654; Thu, 23 May 1996 17:48:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199605232348.RAA11654@rover.village.org> To: Poul-Henning Kamp Subject: Re: src/gnu Cc: Jeffrey Hsu , hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 23 May 1996 01:53:15 -0000 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 17:48:50 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : Well, all >we< have to do is to keep it around, right ? :-) With the current ports structure we have to FTP the stuff before we can rebuild it. Would we need to FTP things like gcc-2.7.2.tar.gz, cvs-1.6.3.tar.gz, etc each time we did a make world? Or is there a plan for that too? Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 17:21:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA08734 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 17:21:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA08726 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 17:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA11885 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 18:21:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199605240021.SAA11885@rover.village.org> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 2.7.3 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 18:21:08 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Just got the patches for 2.7.3. Anybody want to try to use it to do a make world, please contact me. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 17:52:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA12196 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 17:52:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA12186 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 17:52:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA10699; Fri, 24 May 1996 10:15:56 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605240045.KAA10699@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: NFS interop problems... To: bwithrow@BayNetworks.com (Robert Withrow) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 10:15:55 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605231630.MAA16425@tuva.engeast.baynetworks.com> from "Robert Withrow" at May 23, 96 12:30:18 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Robert Withrow stands accused of saying: > > I'm suffering from the (I think) well known interop > problem with sun nfs servers, where you send a request > to one port on the server and you get the reply from > another port on the server, which FreeBSD (rightfully, > I guess) tosses. [BTW, is there any easy workaround > for this? Putting a static route for the client on the > erver seems to work...] Adding 'noconn' to the options line for the mount works as well. The problem is in the use of a UDP 'connect' call, which obviously can't work if a response comes back from a different address. > Robert Withrow -- (+1 508 436 8256) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 18:19:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA14850 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 18:19:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA14838 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 18:18:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA03425 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 23 May 1996 21:17:43 -0400 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199605240117.VAA03425@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: three stage boot again To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 21:17:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Yes, I'm still here. After much hair pulling, code scrutinizing, book reading, and Elvis only knows how much trial and error, I finally managed to cobble together an assembly language startup routine that lets me load the existing second stage bootstrap into a standalone program that can be loaded with itself. Basically, here's the magic I've managed to unravel: - The program is an OMAGIC binary link edited for address 0. This is necessary because of the real mode/protected mode switching business. When in real mode, we execute at physical memory location 0x10000, but with a code segment descriptor that basically maps 0x10000 to 0x0. (So the program thinks it's executing at 0x0 but really isn't.) In real mode, we're excuting at 0x1000:0, which again makes the code think it's executing at 0x0. (And this is why we can't make it larger than 64K, since that would cause the program to extend into 0x2000:0, and all the offsets and addresses calculated by the linker would no longer work.) - The program untimately runs at 0x10000, which is the same location as the existing bootstrap (this was so that I could steal the existing global descriptor table values until I understood them well enough to change them). The program is actually loaded into memory at a different location and copies itself to 0x10000. (It could actually go somewhere else, like 0x20000. I'm saving that for later.) - Even though the binary is link edited for address 0x0, its a.out header is massaged by a small fixup program that changes its entry address to 0x100000. This is to fool the existing boot block into loading it correctly: the second stage boot loads files into memory based on their entry points, however we can't link the program for its entry point since then it won't work when we relocate it. - The existing bootstrap needs to be modified slightly to allow loading of OMAGIC binaries. Currently, it expects to load ZMAGIC binaries, which I think have their sections page aligned. To account for this, the bootstrap skips a chunk of memory between loading the text and data segments; this makes the bootstrap blow up when it tries to load an OMAGIC binary. The code needs to be changed to check the magic value of the binary and only skip the space for ZMAGIC binaries instead of doing it unconditionally. - Once the standalone program is loaded, it copies itself down to 0x10000. This clobbers the global descriptor table left behind by the second stage boot, so we have to build a new one. The standalone image has its own table and it resets the GDT register to use it. It then performs an intrasegment jump to reload the code segment selector and to start executing in the new segment (with the 0x10000 offset). Then it sets the DS, SS and ES segment selectors to match the new code segment selector, resets the stack pointer and jumps to boot(). Sounds simple, right? Hah. All this took me a couple of weeks to figure out. I started off trying to figure out how the mach_kboot program worked, but that only frustrated me since it seems to have been written for a different assembler. Fortunately, I found a couple of reasonably helpful books on i386 architecture and programming in the Columbia engineering library. (Being a Columbia University employee has its perks: you get to check out books free of charge. :) It was with these that I finally learned what a global descriptor table was and what segment selector registers did (and how they were different from segment registers in real mode). Of course, progress was slow even with these books since they don't use gas for their examples. (And will somebody please tell me what the hell 'data32/addr32' mean?) Anyway. Now that that's done, there's still one more obstacle to overcome. When I went to link the new startup routine with the boot code for the first time, I ended up with an unresolved symbol called '_disklabel'. It turns out that this symbol is defined in start.S and looks like it's meant to just provide a pointer to a particular area of memory. I assume that this is supposed to contain the BSD disklabel for the disk from which the bootstrap was loaded, but I can't tell how it's supposed to know where it is. I also don't quite understand the following gas syntax ENTRY(disklabel) . = EXT(boot1) + 400 I realize that the ENTRY() macro is being (ab)used to turn disklabel into a global symbol, but I don't quite understand what the next line does. In a fuzzy sort of way, I think what's happening is that the disklabel ends up slapped into the boot block somehow and gets loaded somewhere along the way by the first stage. My problem is that the third stage will need this disklabel information. I'm not sure if I should somehow arrage to save this disklabel info and pass it to the third stage or if I should make the third stage read it over again. (It should be able to do it by itself, I suppose.) I might be able to figure this part out on my own, but my brain still itches from the last part. Sage advice from those who know how this stuff works would be most welcome. -Bill PS: Yes, I'm having tremendous fun, dammit. -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= License error: The license for this .sig file has expired. You must obtain a new license key before any more witty phrases will appear in this space. ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 18:51:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA20039 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 18:51:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA20024 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 18:51:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA11263; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:34:20 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605240204.LAA11263@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU To: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 11:34:19 +0930 (CST) Cc: karl@mcs.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605231934.PAA29049@etinc.com> from "Dennis" at May 23, 96 03:34:55 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dennis stands accused of saying: > > Karl D. writes... > > >Again, note - no spinning media, no PC-bus issues.... > > I really hate this garbage argument. Novell servers with uptimes > over a year are commonplace...PC bus, spinning media and all. Yeah, and look at the sort of performance you (don't) get out of them. Note also the amazing amounts of money people like Compaq charge for their "Novell Server" products, as opposed to what you pay for J. Random Klone. (I have a couple of friends who administrer large Novell networks. They have just the same sort of trouble with PC hardware, only they have an easier out because the Man From Novell just comes in and says "It's not certified for Novell", or "It's just a hardware problem" and they go complain to their vendor. They don't get a chance to doubt the software, or any useful error messages from it...) > Dennis -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 20:28:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA03078 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 20:28:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA03070 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 20:28:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scooter.quickweb.com (scooter.quickweb.com [199.212.134.8]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id UAA07679 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 20:28:14 -0700 Received: (from mark@localhost) by scooter.quickweb.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA15844; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:32:38 -0400 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 23:32:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Mayo To: Dennis cc: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU In-Reply-To: <199605232309.TAA29413@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 May 1996, Dennis wrote: > whole pile of stuff snipped... > > ones that work. > > > >Show up at a public peering point with one of these "routers" and see how > > >many of the real players will trust the data coming from that hacked gated > >and will peer freely with you. Then look at the thrash rate and explain how > >you think you can route under convergence situations with anything > >approaching a real (as in 34 - 45mbps HSSI-class) load without melting > >completely. > > as i said, your not mainstream. We're talking about low-end routers here and > your talking about backgone T3 switches. Just for the record, here at the University of Waterloo, we're writing high-speed ATM code - we write the stuff first on a machine (which cost < $6000) running on FreeBSD... let's see you (Karl) show up at one of our design meetings with your pitiful hardware... you'd be asked to leave the room very quickly. The FreeBSD pentium is routing with data transfers upwards of 850 mbps. When the code works on the bsd box, we move to the ATM hardware and test. The point being, the hardware you cling to is shit. I can wire together a software solution that is about 6 years ahead of Cisco et. al. on a 'Free' operating system for very low cost. As you dig deeper into routing, you'll find the big boys are simply scared little children clinging to their old world knowledge. I'm not disagreeing with Karl about using good "hardware" in an ISP situation - but you have no ground to stand on when it comes to bandwidth loads. I run Warfleet routers, and I love the Ascend ISDN solutions .. I run a Pipeline 50 on my local lan at home - works like a charm! But the bottom line for many small ISP's is simply this: get the job done for the lowest possible cost. And 'software' solutions can be very attractive. Gated is a nice little package for example that can route very high loads (easilt handle a few T1s) for almost no cost. ANyways, I enjoyed watching you two argue over this!! Bottom line for me: if I buy from big boys, it's for the support, not for performance. I liked it when HP showed up at my office with a fully up to date copy of our fileserver -- 1 hour after the building burned to the ground! :-) Ya get what ya pay for! -Mark :%t$sig -- Oops, thought I was in vi.. ------------------------------------------- | Mark Mayo mark@quickweb.com | | C-Soft www.quickweb.com | ------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 21:15:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA10486 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 21:15:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maui.com (root@waena.mrtc.maui.com [199.4.33.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA10478 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 21:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caliban.dihelix.com (caliban.dihelix.com [199.4.33.251]) by maui.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA01366; Thu, 23 May 1996 15:04:27 -1000 Received: (from langfod@localhost) by caliban.dihelix.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA25532; Thu, 23 May 1996 15:03:51 -1000 (HST) Message-Id: <199605240103.PAA25532@caliban.dihelix.com> Subject: Re: RealAudio To: hasty@netcom.com (Amancio Hasty Jr) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 15:03:51 -1000 (HST) Cc: green@fang.cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199605232009.NAA06215@netcom5.netcom.com> from Amancio Hasty Jr at "May 23, 96 01:09:52 pm" From: "David Langford" X-blank-line: This space intentionaly left blank. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty Jr >Don't worry about RealAudio. There are other serious technologies under >consideration 8) > Amancio Yes, but none being used in the marketplace like RealAudio is now. Therefore, we are worried. A simple case where FreeBSD falls behind. -David Langford langfod@dihelix.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 21:21:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA11607 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 21:21:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA11596 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 21:21:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA03803; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:03:43 -0700 Message-Id: <199605232003.NAA03803@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Michael Smith cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, yves@CC.McGill.CA, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com Subject: Re: SDL cards In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 May 1996 23:30:55 +0930." <199605231400.XAA09016@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 13:03:43 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Amancio Hasty Jr. stands accused of saying: > > > > > Lets see: > > FreeBSD box <---> Ascend Pipeline 50 <--ISDN--> Ascend Pipeline 400 (ISP) > > > > My problem is related to my mbone tunnel . It tends to crash the > > Ascend Pipeline 400 or knock everyone else off the network. > > I am so pissed off about it that I am pacing back and forth thinking about > > other alternatives . > > Buy another P50 and put it on their network 8) > Yes, that is option and most likely it will be the way that I will go unless Ascend fixes their problem;however, I would love to replace the buggy Ascend 400 . Net Headline: FreeBSD box replaces Ascend 400 8) Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 21:30:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA13889 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 21:30:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA13875 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 21:30:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA01005; Thu, 23 May 1996 21:30:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199605240430.VAA01005@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: "David Langford" cc: green@fang.cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RealAudio In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 May 1996 15:03:51 -1000." <199605240103.PAA25532@caliban.dihelix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 21:30:15 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Amancio Hasty Jr > >Don't worry about RealAudio. There are other serious technologies under > >consideration 8) > > Amancio > > Yes, but none being used in the marketplace like RealAudio is now. > Therefore, we are worried. A simple case where FreeBSD falls behind. > > Or a simple case were FreeBSD can lead 8) Sorry not much I can disclose at this time till I am ready which hopefully will be real soon. Regards, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 21:31:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA13962 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 21:31:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw.itfs.nsk.su (gw.itfs.nsk.su [193.124.36.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA13935 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 21:30:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from itfs.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by gw.itfs.nsk.su (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id LAA20741 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:30:11 +0700 Received: by itfs.nsk.su; Fri, 24 May 96 11:19:31 +0700 (NST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by news.itfs.nsk.su (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA14873; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:16:01 +0700 From: nnd@itfs.nsk.su (Nickolay N. Dudorov) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: X11R6.1 available... Should we use? Message-ID: References: <199605231815.WAA00836@astral.msk.su> Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 04:15:57 GMT Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) (ache@astral.msk.su) wrote: > > > > FYI: XFree86 3.1.2E is now available... > > > > Can we upgrade our ports x11/XFree86 to 3.1.2E please? Do you have ports/russian/X.language for 3.1.2D or E ? There is some support for koi8-r in 3.1.2D, but it looks strange and incomplete for me - isn't it your baby ? ;-) N. Dudorov From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 22:07:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA19259 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 22:07:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA19250 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 22:07:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uMp5x-0004JzC; Thu, 23 May 96 22:07 PDT Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 22:07:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: Terry Lambert cc: Charles Green , msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Java Workshop runs on FreeBSD! In-Reply-To: <199605232000.NAA08163@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 May 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > It's my understanding (this may be flawed) that he doesn't have > > the appletviewer working... > > As a point of interest, are you using the BSDI "Atlas" version of > NetScape, like you should be, or are you using the Linux version? My point is that if the appletviewer doesn't run, then the AWT implementation itself is probably seriously flawed (incompatible Motif version?) and therefore wouldn't run JWS either. Running JWS from WITHIN Netscape (perhaps with -java) sounds like a VERY scary idea. :-) ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 22:25:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA22117 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 22:25:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (root@sasami.jurai.net [206.151.208.162]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA22044 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 22:25:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA28269; Fri, 24 May 1996 00:24:49 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 00:24:48 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" X-Sender: winter@sasami To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" cc: Dennis , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 May 1996, Karl Denninger, MCSNet wrote: > Tell me why Alternet, ANS, NearNet, Sprint, MCI, BBNPlanet, MCSNet, AGIS, > and nearly every other *real* ISP out there doesn't run these routers if > they REALLY are a better mousetrap. Ok folks, remember all the names here. His arguement against unix solutions has nothing to do with the typical router that those providers deal with. I'm pretty sure that there are a few BSDI/FreeBSD boxes doing routing at MAE-East though. I've got preliminary plans for my future network expansion and it involves FreeBSD boxes using 100Mb ethernet and FDDI to route internal networks to various transport backbones. I'll probably use cisco hardware to deal with the T3s, but it might be feasible to use sync cards to run dedicated T1 customers off of. > Tell me why my customers want to buy things like ASCEND P130s instead of > these boxes. Turn Key. (and walk away and ignore for the most part) > Show up at a public peering point with one of these "routers" and see how > many of the real players will trust the data coming from that hacked gated > and will peer freely with you. Then look at the thrash rate and explain how > you think you can route under convergence situations with anything > approaching a real (as in 34 - 45mbps HSSI-class) load without melting > completely. To be sure, but I build an 8 port ethernet router for less than $2000. Find me a cisco for that price. :) > In the end-customer locations where it is, the new products like the ASCEND > P130 blow the doors off a PC solution, are more stable, and *CHEAPER*. What routing protocols does the P130 support? Will it melt when you run the T1 full bore? I've heard things about the P130s that doesn't lead me to have much confidence in them. > LOTS cheaper. Maybe. > Build me an end-user router for $2,000 using your solution *INCLUDING* all > software, hardware, CSU/DSU, etc -- electrical RJ-45 T1 to Ethernet, > end-to-end. The SDL board *ALONE* is close to $1,000, and you haven't > bought a processor, RAM, disk drive, case, power supply, display, etc. I wouldn't propose a FreeBSD solution for most of the end-users we come across. On MY network I'll use whatever I think will do the job. > Oh, make sure you include BRI ISDN backup capability in that box. The P130 > does, fully integrated, dial-on-demand. I don't think its unusual for the Ascend to be a better solution for this problem. That doesn't mean that there is no place for unix based solutions. Failure to consider ALL options can be expensive. > Now figure the fact that the $2,000 P130 price is a LIST price, and is > typically discounted 20-30%, that this thing draws something like 18 > watts, and can literally be stuck on a wall near the Ethernet concentrator > that feeds your offices, while your "PC" requires not only a keyboard and > monitor (big and bulky) but draws a couple of hundred heat-producing watts > from the wall. I'm not going to use a PC as an office router. However, if I put together a firewall/mailhost/caching-proxy/WWW/FTP server, for an end user, it may be worth the $1000 to put the sync card on that box and have a one box solution. It all depends on what solution is best for the customer. For some problems FreeBSD is a viable solution to consider when you review all of your options. Have a good one. | Matthew N. Dodd | winter@jurai.net | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | | Technical Manager | mdodd@intersurf.net | http://www.intersurf.net | | InterSurf Online | "Welcome to the net Sir, would you like a handbasket?"| From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 22:43:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA24931 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 22:43:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA24920 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 22:43:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id HAA19241 ; Fri, 24 May 1996 07:43:45 +0200 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id HAA16497 ; Fri, 24 May 1996 07:43:45 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.5/keltia-uucp-2.7) id XAA19390; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:58:55 +0200 (MET DST) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199605232158.XAA19390@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: sendmail.hf To: anton@ns.r-style.ru (Anton) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 23:58:54 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <31A46A35.5AD4@ns.r-style.ru> from Anton at "May 23, 96 05:37:57 pm" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1983 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL16 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Anton said: [Charset euc-kr unsupported, skipping...] I hate that false MIME headers... Anyway, the sendmail.hf (for the help message) is in /usr/share/misc according to bsd4.4.m4: ostype/bsd4.4.m4:ifdef(`HELP_FILE',, `define(`HELP_FILE', /usr/share/misc/sendmail.hf)')dnl -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #2: Fri May 10 21:09:14 MET DST 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 22:47:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA25341 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 22:47:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA25332 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 22:47:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA01941; Thu, 23 May 1996 22:47:17 -0700 Message-Id: <199605240547.WAA01941@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: "Matthew N. Dodd" cc: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" , Dennis , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 May 1996 00:24:48 CDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 22:47:16 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I'm not going to use a PC as an office router. However, if I put together > a firewall/mailhost/caching-proxy/WWW/FTP server, for an end user, it may > be worth the $1000 to put the sync card on that box and have a one box > solution. It all depends on what solution is best for the customer. > > For some problems FreeBSD is a viable solution to consider when you review > all of your options. > > Have a good one. Don't forget that some of us have PCs just laying around doing nothing so if I can buy a sync card for $1000 and used it to connect my lan it can save me money. My point is simple, at least on this list most of us have at least one PC so if I can squeeze yet another functionality out of the box the better of we are 8) Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 22:51:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA25993 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 22:51:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (root@zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA25973 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 22:51:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from father.ludd.luth.se (father.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.18]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.7.5/8.7.2) with ESMTP id HAA22191; Fri, 24 May 1996 07:51:41 +0200 From: Tomas Klockar Received: (dateck@localhost) by father.ludd.luth.se (8.6.11/8.6.11) id HAA01588; Fri, 24 May 1996 07:51:11 +0200 Message-Id: <199605240551.HAA01588@father.ludd.luth.se> Subject: Re: SCSI hostadapter To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 07:51:11 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: dateck@ludd.luth.se, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199605232213.PAA08500@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "May 23, 96 03:13:34 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Terry Lambert: > > I have a SCSI host adapter which I would like to use in freebsd > > The brand is NexStor NXT-82 > > Its a VL-Bus FAST SCSI-2 Host adapter > > Its using a a NCR 53C700-66 curcuit > > It memorymaps the data. > > I believe the NCR 53c7xx series (I don't recognize the "53C700-66" > in particular, though) are not supported because they are very > low end components, for which no one has written a driver. > > These are the same chips in AMD SCSI/Net ethernet/SCSI chips on > the motherboard of some Compaq systems. > > You should use another card (~US$75 for an NCR 8xx series, one > of the best available), or write a driver (for which you will need > another working machine, or another card, and docs for the 7xx > chips; on the plus side, yyou should be able to use the 8xx > driver as a template). I looked around last night and linux seems to have support for this chip and all the other 7xx so i got all thier source for it, but i still could need some help while writing a deviced driver. I just think it's better to suport as many cards as its possible to. Thanks in advance. /Tomas -- Tomas Klockar can be found at the following adresses: Kårhusvägen 4, 2:43 | Furuvägen 102 | dateck@ludd.luth.se 977 54 Luleå | 871 52 Härnösand | dateck@solace.mh.se Tel: +46-920-229391 | Tel: +46-611-13393 | d94-tkl@sm.luth.se From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 23:00:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA26749 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:00:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA26743 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:00:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.7.5/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id OAA05938; Fri, 24 May 1996 14:59:47 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 14:59:47 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" cc: Dennis , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hmm. Dennis cloned me. I posted this previously. On Thu, 23 May 1996, Karl Denninger, MCSNet wrote: > > If you look at the per B channel cost of a ASCEND MAX or Cisco 5200 UAS > > you can easily understand the excitement this card can generate. > > > > -mh > > Huh? > > A base ISDN-only ASCEND MAX is about $15,000 from many of the resellers out > there. This handles 47 ports, for a per-port cost of $312.00. It's a very different story here in Tokyo. -mh From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 23:17:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA00467 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA00458 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:17:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.7.5/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id PAA06078 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 15:17:37 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 15:17:37 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com Subject: Re: SDL cards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 May 1996, Karl Denninger, MCSNet wrote: > > "Expensive" is a relative question, as always. They do have the > > advantage of actually mostly working, so you'll save a lot of time > > trying to get ISDN D channel signaling software to work. And then > > tweaked to support the different phone switches, NI-1 vs. AT&T Custom, > > different switch software "features", etc. [..] > > You should see the Pipeline 130 - T1 with built-in CSU/DSU and ISDN > > BRI with NT1 in the same sized box. Making it bigger than necessary > > only makes it cost more. I've got a P50 LS56 on a 56K Frame Relay > > circuit at home, and it works great. > > Yeah, ain't that a neat box? An ISPs dream - T1 access with integrated ISDN > dial backup (!) on one or two "B" channels. I love those damn things; now > if I could just get some shipped! :-) > > Oh, they're cheap too (~$2k). CISCO, watch out in the access router > marketplace; you have some serious competition out there. Cisco wasn't exactly the leader in this area. They are playing catching up to the Livingston's and the Ascends. > > Disclaimer: at my day job, I work at UUNET Technologies, and we have > > about 500 Ascend MAX 4000 boxes deployed in the field on about 1000 > > ISDN PRI's. Having the product work is a big feature. > > Yep. I run MCSNet, and we switched about a month ago from traditional > modems to Maxen as well. We also find that they work quite well. Still > some software quirks, but I'd never go back to the old way. > > Being able to get 500+ lines in one 84" cabinet is a big plus :-) Granted. Ascends are very very nice. But there is no hack value. An ISDN-only solution using a P6 box with 3 busmastering SDLComm RISCom/Pri cards handling 69 incoming ISDN connections with STAC compression would be very cool. Sorry, maybe its just me, but I am enamored with doing things on PCs running Unix. It's getting better all the time too; the PCI bus is starting to mature, there's incredible work being done on the FreeBSD VM, and we have BSD TCP/IP. -mh From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 23:23:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA01385 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:23:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu (Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA01369 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:23:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA01164; Fri, 24 May 1996 01:23:21 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu: jfieber owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 01:23:21 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber X-Sender: jfieber@Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu To: Joerg Wunsch cc: FreeBSD hackers , sns@viaduk.net, Charles Green , alexis@dawn.ww.net Subject: Re: APC Powerchute In-Reply-To: <199605231939.VAA18623@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 May 1996, J Wunsch wrote: > I had to install PowerChute on the SCO box of a customer some time > ago. The scripts accompanying the software looked so terrible that i > would never install it on a system of my own. I actually tried this just today, seing as how I just got a UPS yesterday. The SCO disks are supposedly cpio, but I have not been able to get anything off of them, even after careful examination of the horrendous install script. > Alexis Yushin's upsd at least has a thoughtful and extensible design. > If there are features missing for you, why not try to extend it? I just spent the afternoon working on this. I got a SmartUPS v/s which is a lobotomized SmartUPS. I spent a bunch of time watching the bytes flow between the ups and the os/2 version of powerchute v/s. I added a second type of ups to upsd that seems to work well. The two commands that I don't understand are G and 9. During normal operation powerchute sends the commands Q, 9, and X to the UPS once per second. If the power power goes off, the sequence changes to Q, G, and X. 9 always returns FF while G always returns T. Clues? Also, for someone with a real SmartUPS (or any other APC), does Control-A return a model number? If so, it may be possible to have a more generic APC module. -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fallout.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ================ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 23:24:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA01408 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:24:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA01376; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:23:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA13532; Fri, 24 May 1996 16:08:44 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605240638.QAA13532@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: src/gnu To: jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr (Jean-Marc Zucconi) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 16:08:43 +0930 (CST) Cc: gpalmer@freebsd.org, phk@critter.tfs.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9605232233.AA18819@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> from "Jean-Marc Zucconi" at May 23, 96 11:33:01 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jean-Marc Zucconi stands accused of saying: > >> That would mean running up against the one flaw of the current ports >> system. I get my source code updates by CTM, and I am VERY happy with >> the fact that I just go to /usr/src and do what I want. I don't want >> to have to think ``do I have that tarball available, and if not, how >> bad is network congestion right now''. This could be handled a number of ways. - put the tarball somewhere other than /usr/ports. It's not going to change very often. Still means you need space for both the tarball and the unpacked version. Perhaps we could have a 'lite' tarball with all the irrelevant stuff diked out, but that would be work. - distribute the port frame unpacked, ie. at the 'make configure' state. This would mean no extracting, no tarball, configuring or patching unless you blew away the .configure_done file. From the point of view of the average 'worlder' this would make for the least impact. When a new GCC was brought in, it would have a new directory name under work/, so the old one could just be thrown out/attic-ed, so no more move/rename hassles. - unbundle the compiler and all the other GNU tools 8) Obviously, I think the second proposal has merit; it might require a hack to bsd.port.mk to avoid requiring the tarball... -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 23:38:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA02619 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:38:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA02610 for ; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:38:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.7.5/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id PAA06166 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 15:38:27 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 15:38:26 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU In-Reply-To: <199605232309.TAA29413@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 May 1996, Dennis wrote: > >Build me an end-user router for $2,000 using your solution *INCLUDING* all > >software, hardware, CSU/DSU, etc -- electrical RJ-45 T1 to Ethernet, > >end-to-end. The SDL board *ALONE* is close to $1,000, and you haven't > >bought a processor, RAM, disk drive, case, power supply, display, etc. > > > >Oh, make sure you include BRI ISDN backup capability in that box. The P130 > >does, fully integrated, dial-on-demand. > > > >Now figure the fact that the $2,000 P130 price is a LIST price, and is > >typically discounted 20-30%, that this thing draws something like 18 > >watts, and can literally be stuck on a wall near the Ethernet concentrator > >that feeds your offices, while your "PC" requires not only a keyboard and > >monitor (big and bulky) but draws a couple of hundred heat-producing watts > >from the wall. > > requires a keyboard and monitor? Where've you been the past decade? > > Well guess what? for less than $3000. I can give you a 4 T1 system with full > bgp peering thats faster than a 4XXX series, with 100Mbs ethernet...shall i > go on? He ain't kidding. Chipsets are getting smaller, motherboards can be made smaller (E.g Tyan). A PC router solution doesn't have to take much space or power. It's not like it needs a Barracuda in it. -mh From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 23 23:51:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA03365 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:51:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA03356; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:51:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id IAA25267; Fri, 24 May 1996 08:51:35 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA17502; Fri, 24 May 1996 08:51:34 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA21885; Fri, 24 May 1996 08:41:50 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605240641.IAA21885@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: SCSI hostadapter To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 08:41:49 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org Reply-To: freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605232213.PAA08500@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "May 23, 96 03:13:34 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > I believe the NCR 53c7xx series (I don't recognize the "53C700-66" > in particular, though) are not supported because they are very > low end components, for which no one has written a driver. Reminds me: does anybody have any information about the 53C400? I've got a couple of these boards sitting on a shelf, they used to accompany HP ScanJets. I don't think they will be anything that can be called performant, but just out of curiosity... Perhaps they are good enough to recommend them to someone who needs an adapter for an Archive Viper 150 or so (which i'd recommend rather than those floppy tape crap). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 00:01:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA04123 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 00:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eru.tubank.msk.su (eru.tubank.msk.su [194.87.210.41]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA04114 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 00:01:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by eru.tubank.msk.su (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA26014; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:00:24 +0400 (MSD) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: Organization: Tver Universal Bank From: "Mister Flash" Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 11:00:23 +0400 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.31 FreeBSD] Subject: 3C579/EISA problem Lines: 22 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, Recently we expirienced a strange problem with 3Com driver under 2.2-960501-SNAP. Problem: EISA 3C579 board (Rev. A2), Compaq Prosignia/300 comp., pentium 90MHz. The board don't want to work with 32bit access, changing the if_ep.c driver not to use outsl, but outsw instead solves the thing (although 32-bit read /* insl */ works ok). We also tried this on another (not Compaq) machine -- no luck. Can you tell me what configurations you tested this driver with and what may be the problem's solution ? Thank You in advance, Alexander V. Tischenko -- Alexander V. Tischenko ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ TverUniversalBank, Telecommunication Department | Tel: +7 095 913-30-50 65, Profsoyuznaya str., Moscow, 117806 Russia | Fax: +7 095 330-67-93 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 00:03:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA04259 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 00:03:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA04248 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 00:03:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA06588; Fri, 24 May 1996 00:03:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 00:03:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605240703.AAA06588@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl CC: ken@stox.pr.mcs.net, taob@io.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: <199605211809.UAA00729@yedi.iaf.nl> (message from Wilko Bulte on Tue, 21 May 1996 20:09:47 +0200 (MET DST)) Subject: Re: HSM for FreeBSD?, was Re: Who wants a DPT SCSI controller driver? From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * OK, disklabel and newfs. 1 hour and 20 minutes later I had this 28+ Gb I usually do newfs on the block device. It's much faster that way. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 00:16:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA04874 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 00:16:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA04821; Fri, 24 May 1996 00:15:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rbezuide@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA13069; Fri, 24 May 1996 09:15:19 +0200 (SAT) From: R Bezuidenhout Message-Id: <199605240715.JAA13069@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Panic: route add -net !! To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 09:15:18 +0200 (SAT) Cc: wollman@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL16 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi all One of our customers tried the following on a machine running 2.1-STABLE and got a kernel panic. I also tried this on a local machine, which fictious IP numbers :) and got the same result: /etc/hosts 12.12.12.12 ddd.csir.co.za ddd 13.13.13.0 ccc.csir.co.za ccc Now!! duzi# route add -net ccc ddd This causes the system to panic. I know that the 13.13.13.0 entry should actually be in the /etc/networks file, I have tested that and that seems to work fine, no panic. I know that putting the network entry in the hosts file is wrong, but I think it should not cause a kernel panic. If you use exactly the same command, but substitute the IP numbers e.g. route add -net 13.13.13.0 12.12.12.12 then it works fine. I traced the problem through /sbin/route and saw that the problem occurs in the following section: /usr/src/sbin/route/route.c line 137: NEXTADDR(RTA_IFP, so_ifp); NEXTADDR(RTA_IFA, so_ifa); rtm.rtm_msglen = l = cp - (char *)&m_rtmsg; if (verbose) print_rtmsg(&rtm, l); if (debugonly) return (0); if ((rlen = write(s, (char *)&m_rtmsg, l)) < 0) { perror("writing to routing socket"); return (-1); } When the write(s, (char *)&m_rtmsg, l)) is done it causes the panic. I've compared it with the one using IP numbers instead of aliases and there seems to be a netmask entry missing in &rtm (the verbose printing) I traced this to /usr/src/sbin/route/route.c line 852 if (((val = inet_addr(s)) != -1) && (which != RTA_DST || forcenet == 0)) { su->sin.sin_addr.s_addr = val; if (inet_lnaof(su->sin.sin_addr) != INADDR_ANY) return (1); else { val = ntohl(val); goto netdone; } } if ((val = inet_network(s)) != -1 || ((np = getnetbyname(s)) != NULL && (val = np->n_net) != 0)) { netdone: if (which == RTA_DST) inet_makenetandmask(val, &su->sin); return (0); } hp = gethostbyname(s); if (hp) { *hpp = hp; su->sin.sin_family = hp->h_addrtype; bcopy(hp->h_addr, (char *)&su->sin.sin_addr, hp->h_length); return (1); When using aliases the first two if statements fail and ends up at hp = gethostbyname(s); ... the call works fine but no netmask is added like in the second if with inet_makenetandmask(val, &su->sin); When using IP numbers the second if is true and inet_makenetandmask(val, &su->sin); is executed and a netmask added. If I use the aliases BUT add -netmask 255.255.255.0 at the end, the call succeeds and there is no panic. I'm not sure if this should be fixed in /sbin/route or a check added in the kernel. Next follows the panic log written by the kernel: May 23 15:24:39 duzi /kernel: Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode May 23 15:24:41 duzi /kernel: fault virtual address = 0x4 May 23 15:24:42 duzi /kernel: fault code = supervisor read, page not present May 23 15:24:42 duzi /kernel: instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf0133523 May 23 15:24:43 duzi /kernel: code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xffff f, type 0x1b May 23 15:24:43 duzi /kernel: = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 May 23 15:24:44 duzi /kernel: processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOP L = 0 May 23 15:24:44 duzi /kernel: current process = 13407 (route) May 23 15:24:45 duzi /kernel: interrupt mask = May 23 15:24:45 duzi /kernel: panic: page fault May 23 15:24:45 duzi /kernel: And with nm /kernel earch_m f013265c T _rn_refines f01326f0 T _rn_lookup f0132744 t _rn_satsifies_leaf f01327b4 T _rn_match f0132924 T _rn_newpair f013297c T _rn_insert f0132ac8 T _rn_addmask f0132d10 t _rn_lexobetter f0132d70 t _rn_new_radix_mask f0132e1c T _rn_addroute f0133184 T _rn_delete f01334ec T _rn_walktree_from ***** looks like this is it !!! f01335f8 T _rn_walktree f01336a0 T _rn_inithead f01337a4 T _rn_init f0133880 F raw_cb.o f0133880 T _raw_attach f01338ec T _raw_detach f013392c T _raw_disconnect f0133950 F raw_usrreq.o f0133950 T _raw_init f013396c T _raw_input f0133ab8 T _raw_ctlinput f0133ac8 T _raw_usrreq Thanx Reinier ######################################################################## # # # Reinier Bezuidenhout Company: Mikomtek CSIR, ZA # # # # Network Engineer - NetSec development team # # # # Current Projects: NetSec - Secure Platform firewall system # # http://www.mikom.csir.co.za # # # # E-mail: rbezuide@mikom.csir.co.za # # # ######################################################################## From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 02:51:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA14615 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 02:51:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA14596; Fri, 24 May 1996 02:51:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from coredump@localhost) by onyx.nervosa.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA01862; Fri, 24 May 1996 02:50:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 02:50:51 -0700 (PDT) From: "Chris J. Layne" To: Michael Smith cc: Jean-Marc Zucconi , gpalmer@freebsd.org, phk@critter.tfs.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: src/gnu In-Reply-To: <199605240638.QAA13532@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 May 1996, Michael Smith wrote: > - distribute the port frame unpacked, ie. at the 'make configure' state. > This would mean no extracting, no tarball, configuring or patching > unless you blew away the .configure_done file. From the point of view > of the average 'worlder' this would make for the least impact. > When a new GCC was brought in, it would have a new directory name under > work/, so the old one could just be thrown out/attic-ed, so no more > move/rename hassles. Good idea! > ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ == Chris Layne ======================================== Nervosa Computing == == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 06:11:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA29512 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 06:11:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA29502 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 06:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.transsys.com (localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.transsys.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA04673; Fri, 24 May 1996 09:11:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605241311.JAA04673@whizzo.transsys.com> X-Authentication-Warning: whizzo.transsys.com: Host localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) cc: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" , hackers@freebsd.org From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) References: <199605231934.PAA29049@etinc.com> In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 May 1996 15:34:55 EDT." <199605231934.PAA29049@etinc.com> Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 09:11:21 -0400 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'll briefly put my UUNET hat on, the one that I've worn when I was directly involved the design, specification and recommendation of hardware selections of well in excess of $10M last year. Consider that you have many, many unmanned POP locations, all over the planet. These are generally co-located in telephone central offices which are not manned 24x7. We colocate in interexchange carrier central offices for a variety of reasons, including cost (you don't need to purchase $5000/mo local loops on each of your DS3 trunks). There is also good environmental conditions and power available in the form of -48V DC power plants that run all of the telco transmission stuff. We do have contracted "remote hands" (NOT "remote brains!") which can be dispatched when required to go touch things, swap boards, etc. This costs about approximately $100 per hour, with something like a 3 hour minimum. And in some cases, they could be a few hours away depending on the time. And in some cases, break other stuff that used to be working 'cause they bumped into it or unplugged the wrong thing. So the way that you want to think about these installations is that the hardware is in a room filled with poison gas, and the last thing that you want to do is send a human in to diddle with stuff. [Did you know that one of the leading causes of telecom related outages is classified as "human intrusion failure"?] Now, PC platforms in this environment: we've searched far and wide for a PC platform which can be deployed in these spaces, not for actual network traffic, but for support purposes such as RADIUS servers, DNS servers, NNTP news senders, etc. Try to find one which does not require a keyboard and display to do system maintenance activities. Try to find one which also operates from -48VDC. Try to find one which is *completely* controllable from a serial port. You can't find one that works anywhere near as well as a Sun Sparc platform, where you can do *anything* you need from the serial port, like change the boot device, format the disk, boot the system, etc. In fact, GNP makes a NEBS complient Sparc platform suitable for just this environment; it's really *very* cool. Cool enough that we are going to incur the considerable extra cost of maintaining a Solarius platform as well as the BSDI platforms we already have. For computing applications which require bulk storage, I have no problem with installing extra disks and boot media to be able to QUICKLY recover the system with NO PHYSICAL INTERVENTION. It's just not reasonable to have to have someone visit a site literally on the other side of the planet in Singapore to punch the reset button. And for access server sorts of products, there is just no good reason why I have to wait for my box to 'fsck' should they crash and reboot. There is no reason why there has to be spinning magnetic media, which will eventually crap out and have to be replaced, in a piece of hardware which is intimately involved in service delivery when there are fine alternatives available which use more reliable technology. Imagine flash memory instead; heck, the Cisco 7500 routers we're deploying have 8MB of flash on the RP, and a pair of 8MB and 20MB PCMCIA flash cards plugged into them as well. > I really hate this garbage argument. Novell servers with uptimes > over a year are commonplace...PC bus, spinning media and all. > you only have problems with drives that are too fast, too hot and > too overworked, which simply isnt the case with a router scenario. Consider this: you as a service provider have some set of costs incurred in providing a service to your customers. - The cost of transmission and telecom services is a big one; it's also somewhat difficult to reduce in a big way since the pricing is somewhat inflexible for your T3 or ISDN PRI. - The cost of the hardware is the next thing that people think about. In either two ways: 1) it's a fixed, one-time expense, compared to the recurring expenses; so there is a CASH issue. 2) the actual COST is relatively low if you consider that you're depreciating the hardware over 60 months (or whatever you convice the IRS of). Compared to the recurring cost of the stuff you plug into the box, the hardware in many cases is almost "free." Assuming you don't have a CASH problem. - The operations cost. That is, how much do you keep spending to keep the box in a state whereby it continues to generate revenue. This includes stuff like maintenance contracts, power, and LABOR. This is the one area where Smart People can directly affect the cost incurred. If you expend more one-time dollars at the outset, you can reduce the recurring expense, and you win in the long run. And don't forget the OPPORTUNITY COST associated with operating this equipment; if you're spending your (limited) time whacking away keeping one box running, you're not doing some other new revenue producing thing, even if you wanted to and otherwise the resources. So when a vendor comes to me with a box which has absurd operating costs because it has to be touched, or takes up too much rack space or the operations component can't be automated, then he's not getting very far in the door. This is the area that an ISP can directly apply his experience and brains to optimize and hopefully cause the REVENUE to exceed the COST at the end of the day, so I can go buy beer. Err.. make the stockholders happy; yeah, that's it :-) So, while optimizing the capital cost of acquiring hardware may be attractive, it's only part of the larger picture you need to consider. [It helps to be able to drive a spreadsheet to be able to tell if the right thing is happening.. That's why the other partition of the disk has Windows95 on it.] The thing that the engineering folks at UUNET are just obsessed with is scalable solutions; if it can't be scaled up, they you'll become a victim of your own success. While I will not claim that my requirements are the same as very many others, you cannot dismiss them at just the ravings of a lunatic. I've put my money (more than $10M of it) where my mouth is. Sorry for the long message; I'll take my UUNET hat off now, and go away quietly. Louis Mamakos From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 06:19:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA00728 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 06:19:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trem.cnt.org.br (desvio.cnt.org.br [200.19.123.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA00707 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 06:18:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by trem.cnt.org.br (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA09726; Fri, 24 May 1996 10:17:33 -0300 From: ormonde@trem.cnt.org.br (Rodrigo Ormonde) Message-Id: <9605241317.AA09726@trem.cnt.org.br> Subject: splnet() and splx() To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 10:17:33 -0300 (GRNLNDST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello. I'm working inside the FreeBSD kernel and sometimes I see the following construction: (it is present in many modules) int s; s = splnet(); /* There is code here */ splx(s); Does anybody know what are the functions splnet() and splx() ? Thanks in advance. -- Rodrigo de La Rocque Ormonde Confederacao Nacional do Transporte e-mail: ormonde@cnt.org.br From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 06:25:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA01750 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 06:25:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dawn.ww.net (root@dawn.ww.net [193.124.73.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA01699 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 06:24:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from alexis@localhost) by dawn.ww.net (8.6.12/alexis 2.5) id RAA16186; Fri, 24 May 1996 17:10:07 +0400 Message-Id: <199605241310.RAA16186@dawn.ww.net> Subject: Re: APC Powerchute To: jfieber@indiana.edu (John Fieber) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 17:10:06 +0400 (MSD) From: Alexis Yushin Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, sns@viaduk.net, green@fang.cs.sunyit.edu In-Reply-To: from John Fieber at "May 24, 96 01:23:21 am" Reply-To: alexis@ww.net (Alexis Yushin) X-Office-Phone: +380 65 2 26.1410 X-Home-Phone: +380 65 2 27.0747 X-NIC-Handle: AY23 X-RIPE-Handle: AY6-RIPE X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Somebody at FreeBSD.ORG has cut my poor usenet injector from -hackers.... So I havent seen this thread before... Once John Fieber wrote: [...] >I just spent the afternoon working on this. I got a SmartUPS v/s >which is a lobotomized SmartUPS. I spent a bunch of time >watching the bytes flow between the ups and the os/2 version of >powerchute v/s. I added a second type of ups to upsd that seems >to work well. I am interested in the sources. Email me the patches. alexis -- Yesterday don't matter when it's gone From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 06:39:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA03655 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 06:39:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA03610 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 06:38:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id PAA12063; Fri, 24 May 1996 15:22:19 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id PAA20160; Fri, 24 May 1996 15:22:18 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id PAA22508; Fri, 24 May 1996 15:02:34 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605241302.PAA22508@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: APC Powerchute To: jfieber@indiana.edu (John Fieber) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 15:02:34 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, sns@viaduk.net, green@fang.cs.sunyit.edu, alexis@dawn.ww.net In-Reply-To: from John Fieber at "May 24, 96 01:23:21 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As John Fieber wrote: > I just spent the afternoon working on this. I got a SmartUPS v/s > which is a lobotomized SmartUPS. I spent a bunch of time > watching the bytes flow between the ups and the os/2 version of > powerchute v/s. I added a second type of ups to upsd that seems > to work well. Hey, don't do this! :) I've been doing it many months ago, and Alexis Yushin's upsd should be up to your needs if you've got a SmartUPS. Ask majordomo@ww.net for the upsd mailing list. Perhaps we should convince Alexis now to make it an official port/package. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 06:43:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA04099 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 06:43:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA04094 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 06:43:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from venus.mcs.com (root@Venus.mcs.com [192.160.127.92]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA23035; Fri, 24 May 1996 08:43:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: by venus.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Fri, 24 May 96 08:43 CDT Message-Id: Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU To: winter@jurai.net (Matthew N. Dodd) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 08:43:24 -0500 (CDT) From: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" Cc: dennis@etinc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Matthew N. Dodd" at May 24, 96 00:24:48 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I don't think its unusual for the Ascend to be a better solution for this > problem. That doesn't mean that there is no place for unix based > solutions. Failure to consider ALL options can be expensive. > > > Now figure the fact that the $2,000 P130 price is a LIST price, and is > > typically discounted 20-30%, that this thing draws something like 18 > > watts, and can literally be stuck on a wall near the Ethernet concentrator > > that feeds your offices, while your "PC" requires not only a keyboard and > > monitor (big and bulky) but draws a couple of hundred heat-producing watts > > from the wall. > > I'm not going to use a PC as an office router. However, if I put together > a firewall/mailhost/caching-proxy/WWW/FTP server, for an end user, it may > be worth the $1000 to put the sync card on that box and have a one box > solution. It all depends on what solution is best for the customer. > > For some problems FreeBSD is a viable solution to consider when you review > all of your options. > > Have a good one. > > | Matthew N. Dodd | winter@jurai.net | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | > | Technical Manager | mdodd@intersurf.net | http://www.intersurf.net | > | InterSurf Online | "Welcome to the net Sir, would you like a handbasket?"| That's the point Matthew. First, commercial boxes come with support. Support that an ISP will NEED. There is definitely a place for these things, yes. But when you are operating a company which is selling access to the PUBLIC, and those customers want support and operational systems, you have to have a way to give it to them. I'm not going to try to claim that there is no place for FreeBSD-based routers. There *IS*. But to try to claim that they *replace* the typical CISCO solution, or the typical end-user attachment solution, is nuts. Two different targets, two different markets. I can live with some quirky problem, or work to fix it myself, in a Unix machine that is being used as a file or compute server. I absolutely *CANNOT* live with that same problem in a core router on my network. Among other things, I screw *other providers* with those problems when they show up on my core. That is unacceptable. And frankly, if the argument is "cheaper is better", I generally say "you haven't considered ALL the costs." I can always come up with a cheaper solution if I leave a few of the costs out of the equation. And yes, Dennis, I am a developer. 99% of the software running here, including the entire FreeBSD-based authentication and database systems at MCSNet, were written by me. 15+ years of experience in this industry. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | T1 from $600 monthly; speeds to DS-3 available Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1] | 21 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net/ ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's only FULL Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 07:05:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA07053 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 07:05:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA07038 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 07:05:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id AAA04777; Sat, 25 May 1996 00:00:14 +1000 Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 00:00:14 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199605241400.AAA04777@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu Subject: Re: three stage boot again Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >- The program is an OMAGIC binary link edited for address 0. This > is necessary because of the real mode/protected mode switching > business. When in real mode, we execute at physical memory location > 0x10000, but with a code segment descriptor that basically maps > 0x10000 to 0x0. (So the program thinks it's executing at 0x0 but > really isn't.) In real mode, we're excuting at 0x1000:0, which again > makes the code think it's executing at 0x0. (And this is why we > can't make it larger than 64K, since that would cause the program > to extend into 0x2000:0, and all the offsets and addresses calculated > by the linker would no longer work.) The 64K restriction could be avoided by linking the real mode parts separately accessing them through call gates or software interrupts. >- The program untimately runs at 0x10000, which is the same location > as the existing bootstrap (this was so that I could steal the > existing global descriptor table values until I understood them > well enough to change them). The program is actually loaded into > memory at a different location and copies itself to 0x10000. > (It could actually go somewhere else, like 0x20000. I'm saving > that for later.) It would probably have been easier to understand it first :-). You can't just steal the existing GDT since it will be overwritten. Extra care is required to avoid using the old table before the new one is installed. >... >- The existing bootstrap needs to be modified slightly to allow loading > of OMAGIC binaries. Currently, it expects to load ZMAGIC binaries, > which I think have their sections page aligned. To account for this, > the bootstrap skips a chunk of memory between loading the text and > data segments; this makes the bootstrap blow up when it tries to load > an OMAGIC binary. The code needs to be changed to check the magic > value of the binary and only skip the space for ZMAGIC binaries > instead of doing it unconditionally. It should know nothing about binary formats. It should simply load files and jump to offset 0 in them. There should be code at offset 0 that understands the binary format. >... Of course, progress was slow even with >these books since they don't use gas for their examples. (And will >somebody please tell me what the hell 'data32/addr32' mean?) They are just macros that expand to the address and data operand size prefix. Gas doesn't support 16-bit code, so you have to fake it by using these prefixes and related kludges. >Now that that's done, there's still one more obstacle to overcome. >When I went to link the new startup routine with the boot code for >the first time, I ended up with an unresolved symbol called '_disklabel'. >It turns out that this symbol is defined in start.S and looks like >it's meant to just provide a pointer to a particular area of memory. >I assume that this is supposed to contain the BSD disklabel for the >disk from which the bootstrap was loaded, but I can't tell how it's >supposed to know where it is. I also don't quite understand the >following gas syntax >ENTRY(disklabel) > . = EXT(boot1) + 400 0x400 `.' is the program counter and assigning to it sets it. The stage 1 bootstrap is known to fit in less than 1 sector or 0x200 bytes. It is actually padded to exactly 0x200 bytes. The _disklabel label follows the stage 1 boostrap so it is at offset 0x200 from the _boot1 label. The above assignment to `.' reserves another disk sector's worth of bytes for the label. The label _for the boot disk_ is initialized by the stage 1 boot strap copying the first LOADSZ (= 15) sectors off the disk into memory. The label follows the stage 1 bootstrap in memory as it does on the disk. The above assignment to `.' arranges for the _disklabel label to point to the initial label. >... My problem is that the >third stage will need this disklabel information. I'm not sure if I >should somehow arrage to save this disklabel info and pass it to the >third stage or if I should make the third stage read it over again. >(It should be able to do it by itself, I suppose.) The third stage can simply read the label into a C array. So could the second stage, but this might cost a few bytes of code and would cost 0x200 bytes of data. The data cost isn't important since the data can be in the bss. Even the first stage bootstrap has an infinite amount of data space (64K is infinite ;-). Perhaps the cost in code is zero (there has to be code to read labels off non-boot disk). Anyway, the assignment to `.', or perhaps simply `.space 0x200' has to be used to leave space for the label, since there's a label in the way on the disk. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 07:06:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA07169 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 07:06:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (root@sasami.jurai.net [206.151.208.162]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA07144 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 07:06:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA05288; Fri, 24 May 1996 09:06:44 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 09:06:43 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" X-Sender: winter@sasami To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" cc: dennis@etinc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 May 1996, Karl Denninger, MCSNet wrote: > First, commercial boxes come with support. Support that an ISP will NEED. I'm not going to touch this. There are too many examples of crappy tech support. > There is definitely a place for these things, yes. But when you are operating > a company which is selling access to the PUBLIC, and those customers want > support and operational systems, you have to have a way to give it to them. I see no conflicts for those public access providers that choose to use FreeBSD. They are getting their support from themselves. The quality of that support is now on THEIR heads. > I'm not going to try to claim that there is no place for FreeBSD-based > routers. There *IS*. > > But to try to claim that they *replace* the typical CISCO solution, or the > typical end-user attachment solution, is nuts. Two different targets, two > different markets. Hey, I'll take a stacked 7513 if your paying... Lessee, I'd like at least 6 ethernet ports, 8 serial, 2 HSSI and 2 FDDI... Well, I don't really need all that, but if I wanted to replace the FreeBSD based router on my network, I'd need a cisco 4000 with 2 4-port ethernet cards. I don't care HOW you roll it, that box is gonna cost LOTS more than $2000. I"m getting 4 port ethenet cards for $125. At that price I'll take a reboot a WEEK (hey, it comes back up in under 2 minutes) so I don't have to lay out the capital for a $10,000 router. I expect to see uptimes on that box of 100 days or more, so I think that in my case its foolish not to go with the FreeBSD box. When I have the money, I'll petition for some criscos, but who knows? By then maybe I'll be happy to keep the FreeBSD box. > I can live with some quirky problem, or work to fix it myself, in a Unix > machine that is being used as a file or compute server. I absolutely > *CANNOT* live with that same problem in a core router on my network. Among > other things, I screw *other providers* with those problems when they show > up on my core. This is true. Broken things tend to suck. > That is unacceptable. Thats another way of putting it. > And frankly, if the argument is "cheaper is better", I generally say "you > haven't considered ALL the costs." I can always come up with a cheaper > solution if I leave a few of the costs out of the equation. Given the choice between having a solution, and not having one, I'll take having one any day, no matter how much I've got to babysit the thing. When the budget becomes flexible enought that I can look at integrated solutions, I'll do that. > And yes, Dennis, I am a developer. 99% of the software running here, > including the entire FreeBSD-based authentication and database systems at > MCSNet, were written by me. 15+ years of experience in this industry. Lets pretend that I've used my FreeBSD router for a whole year, and have only rebooted it for maintainence, and it does EVERYTHING I need it to do. Should I choose integrated solutions over the PC/FreeBSD solution just because its got tech support? I think the arguement that people are trying to make here is that FreeBSD boxes ARE being used successfully as routers, and that they work well enough to be taken seriously. I admit that I don't have warm fuzzies like I would if I were using a cisco, but at this point I can't do anything about that, and in time I may get some of those 'warm fuzzies' about the FreeBSD solution. We shall see. Have a goodo one. | Matthew N. Dodd | winter@jurai.net | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | | Technical Manager | mdodd@intersurf.net | http://www.intersurf.net | | InterSurf Online | "Welcome to the net Sir, would you like a handbasket?"| From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 07:25:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA09957 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 07:25:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu (Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA09936 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 07:25:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA02045; Fri, 24 May 1996 09:14:20 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu: jfieber owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 09:14:20 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber X-Sender: jfieber@Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu Reply-To: John Fieber To: J Wunsch cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, sns@viaduk.net, green@fang.cs.sunyit.edu, alexis@dawn.ww.net Subject: Re: APC Powerchute In-Reply-To: <199605241302.PAA22508@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 May 1996, J Wunsch wrote: > Hey, don't do this! :) > > I've been doing it many months ago, and Alexis Yushin's upsd should be > up to your needs if you've got a SmartUPS. The SmartUPS v/s is a slightly different beast than a SmartUPS and upsd didn't work out of the box because of a number of subtle differences. The v/s is mostly a dumbed down version of the SmartUPS, but some differences tripped up upsd. For example, the number of bytes returned for some of the "info" things like firmware, copyright, and such are different which throws subsequent polls out of whack. An option for variable length command results would be helpful here (unless I it is already there and I just missed it!) > Ask majordomo@ww.net for the upsd mailing list. Just sent off a subscribe request... -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fallout.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ================ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 08:13:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA16697 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 08:13:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA16683 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 08:13:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA04102; Fri, 24 May 96 15:12:51 GMT Message-Id: <9605241512.AA04102@fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov> Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.40.112.3/16.2) id AA206860769; Fri, 24 May 1996 09:12:50 -0600 Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 09:12:50 -0600 From: Sean Kelly To: grog@lemis.de Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, archie@whistle.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605241004.MAA08611@allegro.lemis.de> (grog@lemis.de) Subject: Re: stack trace library? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Greg" == Greg Lehey writes: Greg> What do people think? I could hack up a prototype pretty Greg> quickly if there's enough interest (and no show-stopping Greg> conceptual problems). Sounds more complex than I'd ever need. One nice feature of HP/UX of which I make nearly daily use: extern void U_STACK_TRACE(); which dumps the call stack to standard error. There's also a stack trace library for traversing the call stack and getting various bits of info. -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory kelly@fsl.noaa.gov Boulder Colorado USA http://www-sdd.fsl.noaa.gov/~kelly/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 08:20:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA17465 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 08:20:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA17394 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 08:19:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA01034; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:24:31 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 11:24:31 -0400 Message-Id: <199605241524.LAA01034@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >But to try to claim that they *replace* the typical CISCO solution, or the >typical end-user attachment solution, is nuts. Two different targets, two >different markets. > >I can live with some quirky problem, or work to fix it myself, in a Unix >machine that is being used as a file or compute server. I absolutely >*CANNOT* live with that same problem in a core router on my network. I think the problem here is the work CISCO. Theres no advantage to 2500 series, mild advantage to 4000 and the 7XXX are in a class by themselves. noone here is talking about core routers, only you Karl. We'te talking about the other 98% of the world. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 08:33:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA19357 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 08:33:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA19297 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 08:33:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id IAA20249; Fri, 24 May 1996 08:32:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605241532.IAA20249@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: ormonde@trem.cnt.org.br (Rodrigo Ormonde) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: splnet() and splx() In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 May 1996 10:17:33 -0300." <9605241317.AA09726@trem.cnt.org.br> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 08:32:30 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm working inside the FreeBSD kernel and sometimes I see the following >construction: (it is present in many modules) > > int s; > > s = splnet(); > > /* There is code here */ > > splx(s); > > Does anybody know what are the functions splnet() and splx() ? spl*() and splx() block and restore, respectively, specific classes of interrupts. splnet() blocks software network ASTs, for example, while splimp() blocks network device interrupts. splx() restores the previously saved state. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 08:44:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA20788 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 08:44:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA20743; Fri, 24 May 1996 08:44:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA01078; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:49:44 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 11:49:44 -0400 Message-Id: <199605241549.LAA01078@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >First, commercial boxes come with support. Support that an ISP will NEED. Um...well we give full WAN support with our products, and its a lot better than you get from most of the "commercial" companies from what i hear. >And yes, Dennis, I am a developer. 99% of the software running here, >including the entire FreeBSD-based authentication and database systems at >MCSNet, were written by me. 15+ years of experience in this industry. Well, you sound like a marketeer to me :-) Obviously you understand that some of us wear more than one hat..maybe you could give me the benefit of the doubt. But frankly, I dont understand how you could use something like freebsd for authentication....I wouldnt trust it to anything that wasnt commercial and well-supported :-) Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 08:48:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA21347 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 08:48:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA21331 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 08:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65/1.1.8.2/19Aug95-0530PM) id AA27588; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:48:11 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 11:48:11 -0400 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9605241548.AA27588@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: R Bezuidenhout Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Panic: route add -net !! In-Reply-To: <199605240715.JAA13069@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> References: <199605240715.JAA13069@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk < said: > /etc/hosts > 12.12.12.12 ddd.csir.co.za ddd > 13.13.13.0 ccc.csir.co.za ccc > duzi# route add -net ccc ddd > This causes the system to panic. This is clearly a bug, although how easy it may be to fix is unclear. It would be of considerable value if you could use the `-v' option to `route' so that it's possible to see precisely what is being sent down the routing socket. And if you could compile with debugging, a backtrace (from either DDB or gdb on the core dump) would also be tremendously helpful. This bug may actually be related to another one which was submitted some months ago. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 09:01:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA23134 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 09:01:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA23119 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 09:01:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA01126; Fri, 24 May 1996 12:07:08 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 12:07:08 -0400 Message-Id: <199605241607.MAA01126@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Louis A. Mamakos" From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk someone with a lot more time than i do writes....... > >I'll briefly put my UUNET hat on, the one that I've worn when I was >directly involved the design, specification and recommendation of >hardware selections of well in excess of $10M last year. this is frightning...... :-) and whats the new version of the old adage "no-one ever got fired for recommending Cisco (IBM)" Most guys like you arent willing to put your ass on the line to save your company a few bucks and i cant say i blame you.....but remember, its a lot easier being an employee than an owner; its easy to spend someone elses money. I used to recommend Proteons (back when Cisco was making boxes with vacuum cleaner blowers) at Nynex and Im sure they use ciscos now, but they're too stupid to use unix or PCs, and most small ISPs arent. >Consider that you have many, many unmanned POP locations, all over the >planet. These are generally co-located in telephone central offices >which are not manned 24x7. We colocate in interexchange carrier >central offices for a variety of reasons, including cost (you don't >need to purchase $5000/mo local loops on each of your DS3 trunks). >There is also good environmental conditions and power available in the >form of -48V DC power plants that run all of the telco transmission >stuff. [snipped in the name of bandwidth] you've made a good point for backbone routers, but what about the other 95% of the world? dennis From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 09:14:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA25166 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 09:14:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA25157; Fri, 24 May 1996 09:14:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailbox.mcs.com (Mailbox.mcs.com [192.160.127.87]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA02664; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:13:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mailbox.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Fri, 24 May 96 11:13 CDT Received: by mercury.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Fri, 24 May 96 11:13 CDT Message-Id: Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU To: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 11:13:45 -0500 (CDT) From: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605241549.LAA01078@etinc.com> from "Dennis" at May 24, 96 11:49:44 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >First, commercial boxes come with support. Support that an ISP will NEED. > > Um...well we give full WAN support with our products, and its a lot better > than you get from most of the "commercial" companies from what i > hear. > > > >And yes, Dennis, I am a developer. 99% of the software running here, > >including the entire FreeBSD-based authentication and database systems at > >MCSNet, were written by me. 15+ years of experience in this industry. > > Well, you sound like a marketeer to me :-) Obviously you understand > that some of us wear more than one hat..maybe you could give me > the benefit of the doubt. > > But frankly, I dont understand how you could use something like freebsd > for authentication....I wouldnt trust it to anything that wasnt commercial > and well-supported :-) > > Dennis Its called redundant backups, no two of which are on the same platform :-) I'm crazy, and chase the lower-cost Gods just like everyone else, but I'm NOT stupid. I see the market as basically having three components from an ISP perspective: 1) The end-attachment market (your customers). These folks want simple, simple, simple. Active routing is not required for 99% of these people. The ASCEND P130 is a great box for this application, and you will NOT beat it with a PC-style router. You just won't. 2) The ISP side of those links. The key here is density, density, density and more density. At least if you intend to grow. The PC solution is ok for *limited* areas of this application. 3) Backbone hardware. Here there is no question - CISCO is the market leader, like it or not. This is where you need things like *known good* OSPF capability, IS-IS, BGP4, etc. I have tried to set up BGP4 peering with a PC running gated before; it was a serious pain in the ass finding on their end finding out why we weren't getting correct announcements. With a CISCO its a 30-second exercise for most common configurations. Now let's talk about support. You claim you provide "full WAN support". 4-hour on-site hardware replacement if necessary? Instant, talk-to-an-engineer *NOW* support for software and hardware issues, 24x7? I get that with CISCO products, and in the backbone area, this is CRITICAL. I don't have time to dink around with strange problems. If something like that comes up, I need it fixed now... -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | T1 from $600 monthly; speeds to DS-3 available Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1] | 21 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net/ ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's only FULL Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 09:16:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA25650 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 09:16:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA25617 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 09:16:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA01179; Fri, 24 May 1996 12:21:35 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 12:21:35 -0400 Message-Id: <199605241621.MAA01179@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Michael Hancock From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Re: SDL cards Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >On Thu, 23 May 1996, Karl Denninger, MCSNet wrote: > >> > "Expensive" is a relative question, as always. They do have the >> > advantage of actually mostly working, so you'll save a lot of time >> > trying to get ISDN D channel signaling software to work. And then >> > tweaked to support the different phone switches, NI-1 vs. AT&T Custom, >> > different switch software "features", etc. > >[..] > >> > You should see the Pipeline 130 - T1 with built-in CSU/DSU and ISDN >> > BRI with NT1 in the same sized box. Making it bigger than necessary >> > only makes it cost more. I've got a P50 LS56 on a 56K Frame Relay >> > circuit at home, and it works great. >> >> Yeah, ain't that a neat box? An ISPs dream - T1 access with integrated ISDN >> dial backup (!) on one or two "B" channels. I love those damn things; now >> if I could just get some shipped! :-) >> >> Oh, they're cheap too (~$2k). CISCO, watch out in the access router >> marketplace; you have some serious competition out there. > >Cisco wasn't exactly the leader in this area. They are playing catching >up to the Livingston's and the Ascends. > >> > Disclaimer: at my day job, I work at UUNET Technologies, and we have >> > about 500 Ascend MAX 4000 boxes deployed in the field on about 1000 >> > ISDN PRI's. Having the product work is a big feature. >> >> Yep. I run MCSNet, and we switched about a month ago from traditional >> modems to Maxen as well. We also find that they work quite well. Still >> some software quirks, but I'd never go back to the old way. >> >> Being able to get 500+ lines in one 84" cabinet is a big plus :-) > >Granted. Ascends are very very nice. > >But there is no hack value. An ISDN-only solution using a P6 box with 3 >busmastering SDLComm RISCom/Pri cards handling 69 incoming ISDN >connections with STAC compression would be very cool. Yes and so would a molecular partical transporter :-) Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 09:25:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA27403 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 09:25:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA27374 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 09:25:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA04124; Fri, 24 May 1996 09:16:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605241616.JAA04124@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Louis A. Mamakos" cc: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis), "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 24 May 96 09:11:21 -0400. <199605241311.JAA04673@whizzo.transsys.com> Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 09:16:16 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >You can't find one that works anywhere near as well as a Sun Sparc >platform, where you can do *anything* you need from the serial port, >like change the boot device, format the disk, boot the system, etc. >In fact, GNP makes a NEBS complient Sparc platform suitable for just >this environment; it's really *very* cool. Cool enough that we are >going to incur the considerable extra cost of maintaining a Solarius >platform as well as the BSDI platforms we already have. Re: needing Solarus for a Sparc -- NetBSD has a very mature, stable Sparc port. FYI... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 09:35:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA29070 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 09:35:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA29035; Fri, 24 May 1996 09:35:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA01213; Fri, 24 May 1996 12:41:04 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 12:41:04 -0400 Message-Id: <199605241641.MAA01213@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Karl writes.. >I see the market as basically having three components from an ISP >perspective: >1) The end-attachment market (your customers). These folks want > simple, simple, simple. Active routing is not required for 99% of > these people. The ASCEND P130 is a great box for this application, > and you will NOT beat it with a PC-style router. You just won't. your wrong here. First of all, for frame relay I will beat them easily. Plus most end users also need a host for their pages, mail and DNS, and the PC router gives them both the host and the router in a footprint less than the host/ascend solution without the unnecessary ethernet hop, which means better performance with any speed line. > >2) The ISP side of those links. The key here is density, density, > density and more density. At least if you intend to grow. > The PC solution is ok for *limited* areas of this application. unless your talking frame relay, in which case we give them equal density and higher performance with the same or superior features than Ascend or Cisco. > >3) Backbone hardware. Here there is no question - CISCO is the market > leader, like it or not. This is where you need things like *known > good* OSPF capability, IS-IS, BGP4, etc. I have tried to set up > BGP4 peering with a PC running gated before; it was a serious pain > in the ass finding on their end finding out why we weren't getting > correct announcements. With a CISCO its a 30-second exercise for > most common configurations. for you, but ive heard some horror stories as well. Most people i know that know BGP say its about the same effort once you learn Gated...you have to learn Cisco commands too...i regularly have to tell my customer's ISPs what to type in to configure their boxes for standard things. > >Now let's talk about support. You claim you provide "full WAN support". >4-hour on-site hardware replacement if necessary? Instant, >talk-to-an-engineer *NOW* support for software and hardware issues, 24x7? >I get that with CISCO products, and in the backbone area, this is CRITICAL. Any you pay for it too....lets not forget that. I have a Cisco, and the typical net support contract (@300. a year) isnt as good as you say if you have a non-typical question. I asked them how to bring a PPP line down gracefully and it took them a day to tell me that you can't. dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 10:40:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA08829 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 10:40:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from okjunc.junction.net (root@okjunc.junction.net [199.166.227.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA08804 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 10:40:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by okjunc.junction.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id JAA17364; Fri, 24 May 1996 09:56:04 -0700 Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 10:39:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dillon To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU In-Reply-To: <199605241549.LAA01078@etinc.com> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 May 1996, Dennis wrote: > >First, commercial boxes come with support. Support that an ISP will NEED. > > Um...well we give full WAN support with our products, and its a lot better > than you get from most of the "commercial" companies from what i > hear. > > >And yes, Dennis, I am a developer. 99% of the software running here, > >including the entire FreeBSD-based authentication and database systems at > >MCSNet, were written by me. 15+ years of experience in this industry. Karl, you really should check into the ET products. Dennis has been active on some of the ISP mailing lists that I don't think you follow any more and has certainly proven that he understands WAN technology inside out and that his products (which include a lot of software components) really are darn good. I've seen him giving support to customers and seen quite a few customer testimonials and descriptions of how they are using the ET cards. One guy even has a FreeBSD box with ET cards sitting at MAE-East as his gateway router peering with several NSP's. In fact, I can't help comparing both you, Karl, and Dennis (of ET) because you both come across on these mailing lists as incredibly competent technically with a tendency to arrogance that leads occasionaly to mild flamewars when you chew out somebody who hasn't got a clue and makes some stupid comment or other. This isn't bad, mind you, and in my 20 years of experience in the computer industry I have found that it's a good indicator that you are dealing with a real expert. I urge everyone to check out http://www.etinc.com and consider using their products. They are especially useful to people that want "total control" over their systems because ET cards in a FreeBSD box make it possible to get much closer to that ideal. Michael Dillon ISP & Internet Consulting Memra Software Inc. Fax: +1-604-546-3049 http://www.memra.com E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 10:46:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA09625 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 10:46:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA09614 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 10:46:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA08013; Fri, 24 May 1996 10:44:31 -0700 (PDT) To: "Louis A. Mamakos" cc: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis), "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 May 1996 09:11:21 EDT." <199605241311.JAA04673@whizzo.transsys.com> Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 10:44:30 -0700 Message-ID: <8011.832959870@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > While I will not claim that my requirements are the same as very many > others, you cannot dismiss them at just the ravings of a lunatic. > I've put my money (more than $10M of it) where my mouth is. Sorry for > the long message; I'll take my UUNET hat off now, and go away quietly. Nope, sorry Louis, but, like Cassandra, you must now be villified and endlessly castigated for being correct. :-) I've never made *any secret of the fact that I think that PCs are nasty little pieces of silicon excreta. Ill designed, ill conceived, ill subsequently bred. I daresay most people who've spent any serious amounts of time trying to push the edge of the envelope with a PC feel the same way. There are also lists as long as your arm of all the applications to which PC technology should _not_ be put, and the road to success littered with the bones of those who would not heed their warnings. Pretty much all of the applications Louis (and Karl) describe would be on that list for me - give me a dedicated router with a fan as the only moving part any day. I don't like getting paged at 2am. Have I said enough bad things about PCs yet? No, I don't think so. There's also the issue of Quality Control - two words you'll rarely see stuck together in the PC marketplace. You've got SCSI controllers from Croatia plugged into motherboards from Togo talking to disk drives that were purchased during a $0.10-a-megabyte special the local discount merchant ran. Several dozen failure-prone variables, at least half of which have probably never been tested in combination. If you look at, say, an HP 735 workstation in contrast then the comparison is both striking and obvious - the HP was designed to work, the PC was designed to sell. However, I think it's also fair to say that PCs have sort of become the plumber's tape of the computer industry. You know that heavy-duty grey plastic tape I'm talking about? You can use it for everything from repairing hoses in your car to sticking the neighbor's kid to the ceiling and, if you ever need to tame a temporary cable run across a carpet, it's positively a life-saver. Used in the appropriate situations, PCs are similar commodities. I can think of a dozen scenarios were a scrounged PC and a quick trip to the local computer store would have a smile back on my face (and, more importantly, the face of my employer) in less time than it would for me to navigate cisco's phone mail system. I can also think of situations where a cisco is just plain over-kill. For example, we have a PC here at WC which has 5 ethernet cards plugged into it and does all the 100Mbit & 10Mbit network routing for us internally. How does it work? It works just fine, and at much a lower cost than a similarly capable cisco box would have. Since the whole reason we _have_ 5 ethernet segments is to put machines that like to talk to eachother a lot on the same segments and reduce traffic to "inter-department" stuff only, this little router does the job and it stays up pretty much 24x7, just like our 2 ciscos. There's also DNS, NIS, WEB, FTP and all the other services you can host from such a box as "double duty" - things you can't usually do with a dedicated router. I hope that the PC hardware market will eventually come to its senses and start producing some real high-end commercial quality stuff to match the workstations. Hand-selected components done by people who actually know what they're doing, precision case design for both disk arrays and CPU (I'd like to see totally different MB designs where the PCI cards come in on rails), basically something done with fault-tolerance rather than low-cost in mind. Then maybe you'll start seeing more interesting custom PC setups (with fancy serial-aware BIOSes, no doubt) in the regional NAPs. Just remember the plumber's tape analogy for now - using it to run cables across a carpet is a fine use, taping together a substitute for cable trays in your machine room is not. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 10:48:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA10196 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 10:48:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA10181 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 10:48:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.transsys.com (localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.transsys.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA05080; Fri, 24 May 1996 13:48:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605241748.NAA05080@whizzo.transsys.com> X-Authentication-Warning: whizzo.transsys.com: Host localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) cc: hackers@freebsd.org From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) References: <199605241607.MAA01126@etinc.com> In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 May 1996 12:07:08 EDT." <199605241607.MAA01126@etinc.com> Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 13:48:29 -0400 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >I'll briefly put my UUNET hat on, the one that I've worn when I was > >directly involved the design, specification and recommendation of > >hardware selections of well in excess of $10M last year. > > this is frightning...... :-) and whats the new version of the old adage > > "no-one ever got fired for recommending Cisco (IBM)" We have considerably more in the network than just Cisco routers. If you read my message again, it applies to backbone routers, customer aggregation routers, dial-up modem/idsn servers, frame relay switches, and other equipment in the network. > Most guys like you arent willing to put your ass on the line to save your > company a few bucks and i cant say i blame you.....but remember, its a > lot easier being an employee than an owner; its easy to spend someone > elses money. I used to recommend Proteons (back when Cisco was > making boxes with vacuum cleaner blowers) at Nynex and Im sure they > use ciscos now, but they're too stupid to use unix or PCs, and most small > ISPs arent. Excuse me, but I have a considerable vested interest in having the company succeed so that the stock options I have become (more) valuable. This is a powerful motivating force and focuses atttention quite effectively. Spending money wisely is very important, but there is a difference between cheap and inexpensive. If you look at the way that the network is built, it's just not the same old thing with a bunch of Cisco plugged together. Believe me, Cisco isn't pleased that we have a bunch of Ascend and Cascade hardware in the network. > >Consider that you have many, many unmanned POP locations, all over the > >planet. These are generally co-located in telephone central offices > >which are not manned 24x7. We colocate in interexchange carrier > >central offices for a variety of reasons, including cost (you don't > >need to purchase $5000/mo local loops on each of your DS3 trunks). > >There is also good environmental conditions and power available in the > >form of -48V DC power plants that run all of the telco transmission > >stuff. > [snipped in the name of bandwidth] > > you've made a good point for backbone routers, but what about the > other 95% of the world? There's no reason why the rest of the hardware on the network has to be expensive to operate. My point is that there is more to the issue to consider than the capital cost of the hardware. If the object of the excercise is to make money, well, you ought to consider all the factors. For example, when you scale things up large enough, running the equipment from a reliable -48V DC power supply becomes very attractive because of the economics and reliability. Rather than a UPS with rectifiers, batteries, inverters and control goo, you need only have rectifiers/chargers and batteries. There are fewer pieces involved which can break, which is always a good thing. As I said, the requirements which I've designed to likely differ from a lot of others in a number of dimensions. But in any application, the whole cost picture should be considered. There is almost always a "Make" vs. "Buy" decision which needs to be made, and it's important to realize the implications of each, and the technology you choose to live with and operate. louie From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 10:53:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA10775 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 10:53:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA10746 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 10:52:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA01376; Fri, 24 May 1996 10:48:57 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605241748.KAA01376@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: SDL cards To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 10:48:57 -0700 (MST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, jkh@time.cdrom.com, yves@CC.McGill.CA, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com In-Reply-To: <199605232003.NAA03803@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at May 23, 96 01:03:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Yes, that is option and most likely it will be the way that I will go unless > Ascend fixes their problem;however, I would love to replace the buggy > Ascend 400 . > > Net Headline: > FreeBSD box replaces Ascend 400 8) Unlikely. FreeBSD (unlike "The Linux Publicity Project") does not issue press releases (even when it should). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 11:02:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA11951 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:02:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA11926; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:01:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA01368; Fri, 24 May 1996 14:06:49 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 14:06:49 -0400 Message-Id: <199605241806.OAA01368@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> While I will not claim that my requirements are the same as very many >> others, you cannot dismiss them at just the ravings of a lunatic. >> I've put my money (more than $10M of it) where my mouth is. Sorry for >> the long message; I'll take my UUNET hat off now, and go away quietly. > >Nope, sorry Louis, but, like Cassandra, you must now be villified and >endlessly castigated for being correct. :-) > >I've never made *any secret of the fact that I think that PCs are >nasty little pieces of silicon excreta. Ill designed, ill conceived, >ill subsequently bred. I daresay most people who've spent any serious >amounts of time trying to push the edge of the envelope with a PC feel >the same way. There are also lists as long as your arm of all the >applications to which PC technology should _not_ be put, and the road >to success littered with the bones of those who would not heed their >warnings. Pretty much all of the applications Louis (and Karl) >describe would be on that list for me - give me a dedicated router >with a fan as the only moving part any day. I don't like getting >paged at 2am. > >Have I said enough bad things about PCs yet? No, I don't think so. >There's also the issue of Quality Control - two words you'll rarely >see stuck together in the PC marketplace. You've got SCSI controllers >from Croatia plugged into motherboards from Togo talking to disk >drives that were purchased during a $0.10-a-megabyte special the local >discount merchant ran. Several dozen failure-prone variables, at >least half of which have probably never been tested in combination. These are the words of your "leader"? Most of this is your own fault, for buying cheap unknown cards, discouraging and ridiculing commercial vendors for charging for things that are worth it and not giving away their work, and using software thats been slapped together by someone who doesnt have enough time to spend on it to make it really work well. you get yourself a good adaptec disk controller (thanks Justin), which isnt really an issue with a router anyways, a good ethernet card and driver (thanks david) and a good, well supported WAN interface and you've got a very reliable product that rivals most of the stuff out there. All of the routers on the market are just basically PCs, in one form or another. Cisco OS is just a hacked up unix os, so what your really saying is that the guys at cisco write better code than you do. I think that a lot of the people on this list would take exception to that. shame on you. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 11:08:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA12317 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:08:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA12312 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:08:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA01418; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:07:30 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605241807.LAA01418@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: X11R6.1 available... Should we use? To: nnd@itfs.nsk.su (Nickolay N. Dudorov) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 11:07:30 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Nickolay N. Dudorov" at May 24, 96 04:15:57 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) (ache@astral.msk.su) wrote: > > > > > > FYI: XFree86 3.1.2E is now available... > > > > > > > Can we upgrade our ports x11/XFree86 to 3.1.2E please? > > Do you have ports/russian/X.language for 3.1.2D or E ? > > There is some support for koi8-r in 3.1.2D, but it looks > strange and incomplete for me - isn't it your baby ? ;-) I'm still really curious what KOI-8 buys you that the ISO 8859 character set does not. Maybe I'm insane, but I don't think it matters which bit pattern represents which character, as long as all the characters are there... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 11:11:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA12506 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA12497 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:11:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA01442; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:11:25 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605241811.LAA01442@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: SCSI hostadapter To: dateck@ludd.luth.se (Tomas Klockar) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 11:11:24 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, dateck@ludd.luth.se, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199605240551.HAA01588@father.ludd.luth.se> from "Tomas Klockar" at May 24, 96 07:51:11 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I believe the NCR 53c7xx series (I don't recognize the "53C700-66" > > in particular, though) are not supported because they are very > > low end components, for which no one has written a driver. [ ... ] > I looked around last night and linux seems to have support for this chip > and all the other 7xx so i got all thier source for it, but i still could > need some help while writing a deviced driver. > > I just think it's better to suport as many cards as its possible to. I agree; the problem is that most of us don't have this hardware to work with. You should look through questions for "Compaq SCSI" and "PCNet SCSI"; you will find 3 or 4 people with hardware who could help you test, if nothing else. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 11:13:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA12667 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:13:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA12641 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:13:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from allegro.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0uN1Js-000QY9C; Fri, 24 May 96 20:10 MET DST From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA24145 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 24 May 1996 17:33:24 +0200 Message-Id: <199605241533.RAA24145@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: stack trace library? To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 12:04:34 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: archie@whistle.com, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605230519.OAA07249@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at May 23, 96 02:49:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith writes: > > Archie Cobbs stands accused of saying: >> >> Does there exist a library with routines that a program (linked with -g) >> can use for doing stack crawls? > > 'man nlist' may help. > >> For example, suppose you >> >> signal(SIGSEGV, CatchBug); >> >> Then when CatchBug() is called, you want the program to display a >> stack trace from the point at which the signal occurred, a la gdb's >> "where" command. Then we could have self debugging programs! :-) > > Note that it would probably almost as easy to fork off a subprocess, start > gdb and attach it to the offending process, run a few commands in it, > detach it and exit. I think it would be easier. I was thinking of doing something like this recently. One of the biggest problems people have in debugging multiple processes is that you can't easily debug a process started by another (non-shell) process. Sure, you can attach to the process (wonderful feature!), but you can't catch it from the start, and you can't catch it if it gets a fatal signal. It occurred to me that it would be relatively simple to add a couple of environment variables, say, "START_DEBUGGER" and "TRAP_DEBUGGER". crt0.o (the 'start' function which calls main ()) would look for START_DEBUGGER. If it found it, it would spawn the debugger specified as the value of the variable, and let it control it. TRAP_DEBUGGER would work similarly as a default trap handler for terminating a process. Instead of terminating the process, it would cause it to spawn a debugger and transfer control of the process to it. What do people think? I could hack up a prototype pretty quickly if there's enough interest (and no show-stopping conceptual problems). Follow up to -hackers, please. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 11:14:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA12723 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:14:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA12701 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:14:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from allegro.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0uN1Jv-000QYYC; Fri, 24 May 96 20:10 MET DST From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA24132; Fri, 24 May 1996 17:32:19 +0200 Message-Id: <199605241532.RAA24132@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: stack trace library? To: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 17:32:18 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) In-Reply-To: <9605241512.AA04102@fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov> from "Sean Kelly" at May 24, 96 09:12:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sean Kelly writes: > >>>>>> "Greg" == Greg Lehey writes: > > Greg> What do people think? I could hack up a prototype pretty > Greg> quickly if there's enough interest (and no show-stopping > Greg> conceptual problems). > > Sounds more complex than I'd ever need. Depends on what you need, I suppose. > One nice feature of HP/UX of which I make nearly daily use: > > extern void U_STACK_TRACE(); > > which dumps the call stack to standard error. There's also a stack > trace library for traversing the call stack and getting various bits > of info. If it's there, that's fine. A good stack trace should also show you parameters and line numbers, and that's non-trivial. Going into a debugger would be comparatively easy, and it offers a whole lot more in addition (including, as Mike says, stack trace and exit). Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 11:27:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA13467 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:27:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA13462 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:27:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA20838; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:26:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605241826.LAA20838@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "Louis A. Mamakos" , dennis@etinc.com (Dennis), "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 May 1996 10:44:30 PDT." <8011.832959870@time.cdrom.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 11:26:30 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >warnings. Pretty much all of the applications Louis (and Karl) >describe would be on that list for me - give me a dedicated router >with a fan as the only moving part any day. I don't like getting >paged at 2am. ^^^ You mean 2_p_m - we both sleep in the daytime, remember? :-) -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 11:28:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA13610 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:28:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA13604 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:28:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0uN1am-0004JxC; Fri, 24 May 96 11:28 PDT Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 11:28:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: Fred Condo , Adam Leff Subject: Mac Linux: Nothing to worry about :-) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I was very disappointed with the DR1 release of MkLinux for PowerMac. I know it's not fair to complain about minor problems with what is obviously an early developer's release, so instead I will concentrate on the major architectural and philosophical faults, which will be the hardest to fix later. :-) Anyway, here are some salient misfeatures: 1) No shared libraries. None! These are ELF binaries by the way. Everything is statically linked. For X programs this is particularly disgusting, e.g. xlogo is a 1.2MB executable. I can only guess that either a limitation of Linux's ELF support or a limitation of the GNU development tools prevented the developers from porting shared lib support to PowerPC for this release. I plan to inquire further about this oversight since the PowerMac I tested on is short of disk space, and I consider shared libs a _necessity_ for any modern Unix. 2) In the useless bundled crap department, I discovered the following packages in the BASE distribution: Perl 5 (6MB), GNU Emacs (24MB), as well as other bloaed GNU utilities, all installed in /usr/bin of course. I was going to complain about the many minor (though still unexcusable) flaws, e.g. bad /dev permissions, X server doesn't work in thousands of colors (and you must reboot to MacOS to change the monitor to 256 colors!), unusable terminfo entry for console, bad stty settings made my password visible when I typed it in, and it just seemed SLOW, repeatedly seizing up for a second or two on the simplest operations. This is a PowerMac 7100/66 with 16MB RAM, btw. But these flaws are minor, and I expect will be fixed, although with the Linux experience of RedHat (who seem to have helped with bundling utilities, since the source was in .rpm format) you would not expect any permissions/packaging problems however. The lack of shared libraries, and the decision to bundle in crap like Emacs, however, seem unexcusable, even for an early developer release. There is one fortunate thing out of all this: The OSF and Apple-developed source code to the Mach kernel and Linux server are all freely available and covered under a standard BSD-style copyright! Whoohoo! This means a Free/NetBSD port to PowerMac is now feasible! Unfortunately I lack the PPC assembly language and kernel hacking knowledge to undertake such a beast, however I sincerely hope somebody else (Terry?) decides to take this on. The question is: Would it be best to build a BSD "personality" server on top of a Mach kernel, as MkLinux is built, or scrap that idea and build a traditional BSD kernel? OSF claims the advantage of Mach lies in SMP, real-time, and portability (port the microkernel to a new architecture, then simply recompile the Linux server), but obviously this is going to use more RAM and CPU than a "native" BSD kernel. Comments? ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 11:42:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA14804 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:42:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from okjunc.junction.net (root@okjunc.junction.net [199.166.227.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA14785; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:42:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by okjunc.junction.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id KAA18269; Fri, 24 May 1996 10:57:24 -0700 Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 11:40:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dillon To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" cc: Dennis , hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 May 1996, Karl Denninger, MCSNet wrote: > 1) The end-attachment market (your customers). These folks want > simple, simple, simple. Active routing is not required for 99% of > these people. The ASCEND P130 is a great box for this application, > and you will NOT beat it with a PC-style router. You just won't. In many cases these are clueless folks who just buy what their consultant/supplier recommends *AND* supports. There is no reason why somebody can't sell these people FreeBSD boxes with ET cards. These customers get "simple" by relying on their consultant/supplier to handle all the technical and support details. > good* OSPF capability, IS-IS, BGP4, etc. I have tried to set up > BGP4 peering with a PC running gated before; it was a serious pain > in the ass finding on their end finding out why we weren't getting > correct announcements. With a CISCO its a 30-second exercise for > most common configurations. This is only true for people like you who have used lots of Cisco product and now know it inside out. In todays growing market there are lots of folks who feel very comfortable with UNIX but know nothing about Cisco configurations and for them it can be easier to configure gated especially since they can practice with gated and RIP, then progress to gated and OSPF and then, when they need it, progress to gated and BGP. > Now let's talk about support. You claim you provide "full WAN support". > 4-hour on-site hardware replacement if necessary? Instant, > talk-to-an-engineer *NOW* support for software and hardware issues, 24x7? > I get that with CISCO products, and in the backbone area, this is CRITICAL. Not everybody can get this kind of support out of Cisco. If you are an important enough customer of Cisco's and are in a major metro area (like Chicago) and have a good relationship with clueful Cisco people then they can't be beat. Unfortunately, not everybod is in that position and some people just bang their heads against the wall trying to get help from Cisco. With something like the ET card, your local tech people can handle things like power supplies, computer components, system crashes, and you only need to deal with ET when it is an actual WAN hardware or software problem. And you don't need to stock a whole spare box, just the ET card. > I don't have time to dink around with strange problems. If something like > that comes up, I need it fixed now... I've found that no single product is the best for evereyone, evereywhere, everytime. But there is definitely a suite of best products for WAN/ISP use that includes Cisco routers, Livingston Portmaster terminal servers, ET sync cards, FreeBSD, USR Courier modems, Ascend Max, and so on. Michael Dillon ISP & Internet Consulting Memra Software Inc. Fax: +1-604-546-3049 http://www.memra.com E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 11:45:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA15143 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:45:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA15116 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:45:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de) by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V5.0-4 #13110) id <01I53HL1OADS0000YS@mail.rwth-aachen.de>; Fri, 24 May 1996 20:17:15 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA29718; Fri, 24 May 1996 09:21:06 +0200 Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 09:21:05 +0200 (MET DST) From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Subject: Re: Anybody using Xinside on -current? In-reply-to: <199605231935.VAA18589@uriah.heep.sax.de> To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, langfod@dihelix.com, mrcpu@cdsnet.net Reply-to: Christoph Kukulies Message-id: <199605240721.JAA29718@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL16 (25)] Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As Christoph P. Kukulies wrote: > > > > >I'm thinking of making the jump to -current on my personal box, but want > > > >to make sure that the Xinside server for my Matrox cards will work. > > > > Works wonderfully. No complaints. Running 1280x1024x24bpp on my Matrox card. > > Doesn't work on my colleague's box, for reasons that are not yet > known. Any mouse causes crazy pointer events, regardless whether he > uses the PS/2 mouse or a serial MouseSystems one. > > This is with the March CD-ROM Snapshot, and an ELSA Winner 1000 > S3 86C928 board. XFree86 3.1.2 works. > > We're going to try it on a 2.1-stable kernel again to find the > reasons. Are you using PCVT when using Xinside? > > -- > cheers, J"org > > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE > Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 11:54:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA15870 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:54:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA15853; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:54:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA20913; Fri, 24 May 1996 11:52:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605241852.LAA20913@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 May 1996 14:06:49 EDT." <199605241806.OAA01368@etinc.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 11:52:45 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >These are the words of your "leader"? > >Most of this is your own fault, for buying cheap unknown cards, >discouraging and ridiculing commercial vendors for charging for >things that are worth it and not giving away their work, and using >software thats been slapped together by someone who doesnt have >enough time to spend on it to make it really work well. Jordan's talking about other quality issues, like a poorly designed bus and rail design that allows for cards to become unseated fairly easily and the general lack of quality with 99.9% of the motherboards on the market. In this case, I'm refering to poor Q/A at the factory (bad cache ram, etc), poor BIOSes, etc. ...and then there's interoperability problems between various cards with various motherboards. This is one advantage that Sun machines have that PCs will never have - all the hardware is pretty much made by one vendor and this cuts down the interoperability/reliability problems dramatically. For those of us that come from minicomputer backgrounds (DEC PDP and VAX), it's all too obvious to us where the shortcomings are in PC hardware. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 12:28:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA20470 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 12:28:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gallup.cia-g.com (root@gallup.cia-g.com [206.206.162.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA20461 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 12:28:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gallup.cia-g.com (gallup.cia-g.com [206.206.162.10]) by gallup.cia-g.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA25064 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 13:29:51 -0600 Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 13:29:50 -0600 (MDT) From: Stephen Fisher To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Adduser program in C Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi. Please CC your responses directly to me since i'm on the -digest of this list. I would like to heavily modify an adduser program, however the distribution one in FreeBSD is in Perl. I don't do Perl. I would like to write one in C but was wondering if anyone has done this before? TIA. - Steve - Systems Manager From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 12:44:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA21847 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 12:44:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA21830 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 12:44:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA01539; Fri, 24 May 1996 15:49:47 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 15:49:47 -0400 Message-Id: <199605241949.PAA01539@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: davidg@Root.COM From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk David G writes... >>Most of this is your own fault, for buying cheap unknown cards, >>discouraging and ridiculing commercial vendors for charging for >>things that are worth it and not giving away their work, and using >>software thats been slapped together by someone who doesnt have >>enough time to spend on it to make it really work well. > > Jordan's talking about other quality issues, like a poorly designed bus and >rail design that allows for cards to become unseated fairly easily and the >general lack of quality with 99.9% of the motherboards on the market. In this >case, I'm refering to poor Q/A at the factory (bad cache ram, etc), poor >BIOSes, etc. ...and then there's interoperability problems between various >cards with various motherboards. This is one advantage that Sun machines have >that PCs will never have - all the hardware is pretty much made by one vendor >and this cuts down the interoperability/reliability problems dramatically. >For those of us that come from minicomputer backgrounds (DEC PDP and VAX), >it's all too obvious to us where the shortcomings are in PC hardware. Granted...but it isnt an impossible task to find the good products. A router sitting in the corner isnt going to have cards pop out, and if your building/selling routers obviously you need to do you homework. We're talking about routing a few Mbits per second here...theres not a lot going on that the hardware has to be perfect. dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 12:44:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA21883 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 12:44:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA21862 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 12:44:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA01258; Fri, 24 May 1996 15:42:44 -0400 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199605241942.PAA01258@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: three stage boot again To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 15:42:43 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605241400.AAA04777@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at May 25, 96 00:00:14 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Of all the gin joints in all the world, Bruce Evans had to walk into mine and say: > >- The program is an OMAGIC binary link edited for address 0. This > > is necessary because of the real mode/protected mode switching > > business. When in real mode, we execute at physical memory location > > 0x10000, but with a code segment descriptor that basically maps > > 0x10000 to 0x0. (So the program thinks it's executing at 0x0 but > > really isn't.) In real mode, we're excuting at 0x1000:0, which again > > makes the code think it's executing at 0x0. (And this is why we > > can't make it larger than 64K, since that would cause the program > > to extend into 0x2000:0, and all the offsets and addresses calculated > > by the linker would no longer work.) > > The 64K restriction could be avoided by linking the real mode parts > separately accessing them through call gates or software interrupts. In other words, more magic. > >- The program untimately runs at 0x10000, which is the same location > > as the existing bootstrap (this was so that I could steal the > > existing global descriptor table values until I understood them > > well enough to change them). The program is actually loaded into > > memory at a different location and copies itself to 0x10000. > > (It could actually go somewhere else, like 0x20000. I'm saving > > that for later.) > > It would probably have been easier to understand it first :-). You > can't just steal the existing GDT since it will be overwritten. Extra > care is required to avoid using the old table before the new one is > installed. I meant using the existing values. With the program I wrote, I can relocate to any physical segment so long as I change the value of RELOC_ADDRESS in the Makefile and recompile. This will initialize the descriptor table base addresses and fix up the startup code so that it copies itself to the right place. Oh, and BOOTSEG needs to be changed accordingly as well (meaning that if RELOC_ADDRESS is 0x20000, BOOTSEG has to be 0x2000). I'm not actually using the same table left behind by the bootstrap: as soon as the program runs, it copies itself over the old bootstrap, carrying with it its own compiled-in table, and it resets the GDTR to use this table instead. The values in the table are actually the same, but the location has changed. This was one place where I got confused because of the differences between the Mach code and ours. The fact that our bootstrap actually sets some of the values at run time didn't help. For example, in table.c in the Mach code, a segment descriptor looks like this: {0xFFFF, 0x1000, 0x0, 0x9E, 0x40, 0x0}, /* 0x08 : boot code */ But in our biosboot code, the descriptor for the same segment looks like this (after being filled in at run time, that is): {0xFFFF, 0x0, 0x1, 0x9E, 0x40, 0x0}, /* 0x18 : boot code */ I ended up sticking printf()s in the second stage boot to dump out the contents in the table so that I could compare them. I suspect weird byte ordering silliness afoot. > >- The existing bootstrap needs to be modified slightly to allow loading > > of OMAGIC binaries. Currently, it expects to load ZMAGIC binaries, > > which I think have their sections page aligned. To account for this, > > the bootstrap skips a chunk of memory between loading the text and > > data segments; this makes the bootstrap blow up when it tries to load > > an OMAGIC binary. The code needs to be changed to check the magic > > value of the binary and only skip the space for ZMAGIC binaries > > instead of doing it unconditionally. > It should know nothing about binary formats. It should simply load files > and jump to offset 0 in them. There should be code at offset 0 that > understands the binary format. Then you'd have to change the kernel too since it is written in a particular binary format (a.out, ZMAGIC) which the bootstrap does special things to accomodate. The trouble I was having was that the second stage bootstrap was crashing right after it loaded the text segment. I eventually figured out that this was happening because of the following code from boot.c: /********************************************************/ /* Load the Initialised data after the text */ /********************************************************/ while (addr & PAGE_MASK) *(char *)addr++ = 0; As far as I can tell, this pads the text segment out to a page boundary, and it's needed because ZMAGIC binaries have their segments page aligned. But OMAGIC binaries don't, so if you load one with the existing bootstrap, everything blows up right here. I changed this to: if (head.a_magic == ZMAGIC) { while (addr & PAGE_MASK) *(char *)addr++ = 0; } This is not exactly right either, since it assumes that ZMAGIC binaries are the only ones that need this treatment. That aside, with this hack, OMAGIC binaries load correctly. > >I also don't quite understand the > >following gas syntax > > >ENTRY(disklabel) > > . = EXT(boot1) + 400 > 0x400 [chop] Okay, I got it. :) The program works. The only problem right now is that boot() does not have a proper argument passed to it, so it always assumes a bogus value for dosdev. I suppose I could hack the second stage bootstrap to pass the correct dosdev value to the third stage, but I'll save that for another week. I've uploaded the code to the incoming directory on freefall, and I've also placed a copy on skynet.ctr.columbia.edu under /pub/freebsd/standalone. The file is called standboot.tar.gz. This is basically the same code as the existing biosboot from FreeBSD-current, except that it has a different startup routine and a few small tweaks. These are outlined in the README included with the archive. Now what I'd really like to do is to slam biosboot and netboot together at high speeds. -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= License error: The license for this .sig file has expired. You must obtain a new license key before any more witty phrases will appear in this space. ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 12:48:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA22105 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 12:48:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA22086; Fri, 24 May 1996 12:48:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA01597; Fri, 24 May 1996 12:46:38 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605241946.MAA01597@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 12:46:38 -0700 (MST) Cc: dennis@etinc.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199605241852.LAA20913@Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at May 24, 96 11:52:45 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Jordan's talking about other quality issues, like a poorly designed bus and > rail design that allows for cards to become unseated fairly easily and the > general lack of quality with 99.9% of the motherboards on the market. In this > case, I'm refering to poor Q/A at the factory (bad cache ram, etc), poor > BIOSes, etc. ...and then there's interoperability problems between various > cards with various motherboards. This is one advantage that Sun machines have > that PCs will never have - all the hardware is pretty much made by one vendor > and this cuts down the interoperability/reliability problems dramatically. > For those of us that come from minicomputer backgrounds (DEC PDP and VAX), > it's all too obvious to us where the shortcomings are in PC hardware. On the other hand, I've had to reseat SBUS-connected TIGA boards on AT&T/NCR X terminals on a 3-4 month rotation because thermal expansion walks the right out. I personally prefer the MCA connector technology, but of course, we "all" hate MCA. The Apple NuBUS cards and slot edge connections are also pretty cool as far as good connector technology, but again, there's enough play in the engineering that you can get impossible-to-install cards; definitely a QC issue. All in all, the PC cards don't suck too badly if you use full length cards and loking end-rails internally. With the screw on the other end, the card isn't going anywhere. Micron has also recently advanced case technology, with click-lock drive rails that insert into screw holes instead of needing to be screwed down in 3 places (2 in the rail, one on the rail head), with internal spring mounts. Good mounting technology that Sun *doesn't* have. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 12:52:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA22361 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 12:52:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA22350 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 12:52:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id VAA21731 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 21:51:40 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA24528 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 24 May 1996 21:51:40 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA23276 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 24 May 1996 21:38:43 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605241938.VAA23276@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: APC Powerchute To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 21:38:43 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from John Fieber at "May 24, 96 09:14:20 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As John Fieber wrote: > > Hey, don't do this! :) > > > > I've been doing it many months ago, and Alexis Yushin's upsd should be > > up to your needs if you've got a SmartUPS. > > The SmartUPS v/s is a slightly different beast than a SmartUPS > and upsd didn't work out of the box because of a number of subtle > differences. Ah, ok, i missed the `v/s'. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 12:57:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA22603 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 12:57:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA22598 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 12:57:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA01623; Fri, 24 May 1996 12:56:56 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605241956.MAA01623@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Mac Linux: Nothing to worry about :-) To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 12:56:56 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, fred@lightside.com, adam@lightside.com In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at May 24, 96 11:28:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 1) No shared libraries. None! These are ELF binaries by the way. > Everything is statically linked. For X programs this is particularly > disgusting, e.g. xlogo is a 1.2MB executable. I can only guess that > either a limitation of Linux's ELF support or a limitation of the GNU > development tools prevented the developers from porting shared lib support > to PowerPC for this release. I plan to inquire further about this > oversight since the PowerMac I tested on is short of disk space, and I > consider shared libs a _necessity_ for any modern Unix. I have had to hack the GNU utilities for PIC. The changes are not significant, but there is a requirement for not flushing the cache. I typically handle this by post-processing the object files, since the difference is one bit and the target value. > The lack of shared libraries, and the decision to bundle in crap like > Emacs, however, seem unexcusable, even for an early developer release. Emacs is the default editor for the Linux PPC PowerStac port as well; with a broken console raw mode, it is, in fact, unusable without an external terminal. > There is one fortunate thing out of all this: The OSF and Apple-developed > source code to the Mach kernel and Linux server are all freely available > and covered under a standard BSD-style copyright! Whoohoo! This means a > Free/NetBSD port to PowerMac is now feasible! Unfortunately I lack the > PPC assembly language and kernel hacking knowledge to undertake such a > beast, however I sincerely hope somebody else (Terry?) decides to take > this on. There are a number of Apple 6100's for sale for ~$2000 in one of the news groups. I'm going to check Circuit City for pricing this weekend, and see how it compares (they have a $150 off sale on all computers). If they get as cheap as a BeBox anywhere, I'll probably grab one (yeah, that's what I need, another computer. 8-)). > The question is: Would it be best to build a BSD "personality" > server on top of a Mach kernel, as MkLinux is built, or scrap that idea > and build a traditional BSD kernel? OSF claims the advantage of Mach > lies in SMP, real-time, and portability (port the microkernel to a new > architecture, then simply recompile the Linux server), but obviously this > is going to use more RAM and CPU than a "native" BSD kernel. Comments? If I do anything at all with the PowerMac, it will be a native port; the reasoning here is that the unified VM/Buffer cache and other advantages are unavailable in Mach. I also have a model for running x86 ABI modules for running things like NetScape under non-x86 processors, which would pretty much see a x4 slowdown on a hosted OS (like a Mach multiserver, if I started with that code). I would also like to share the PCI architecture bits, as well as other platform independent architectural attributes between systems. I still have some issues left over from the DEV Alpha days here; the Motorolla Ultra 603/604 (PowerStac) machines use a more traditional PC architecture, but the Mac PCI is not bridged from ISA (just like the Alpha PCI), so the code needs to be dual-mode -- it isn't. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 13:21:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA23756 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 13:21:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scooter.quickweb.com (scooter.quickweb.com [199.212.134.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA23730; Fri, 24 May 1996 13:20:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mark@localhost) by scooter.quickweb.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA20958; Fri, 24 May 1996 16:18:50 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 16:18:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Mayo To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Error during -stable make Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I decided to go ahead with supping the FreeBSD-stable tree, and ran 'make world' and after about 2 hours into the proceedure (486-66, 24MB RAM..) I had this error: see below. I'm guessing it isn't normal... any ideas? c/locale -DYP -c /usr/src/lib/libc/rpc/svc.c -o svc.so cc -fpic -DPIC -O -DLIBC_RCS -DSYSLIBC_RCS -D__DBINTERFACE_PRIVATE -DPOSIX_MISTAKE -I/usr/src/lib/libc/locale -DYP -c /usr/src/lib/libc/rpc/svc_auth.c -o svc_auth.so cc -fpic -DPIC -O -DLIBC_RCS -DSYSLIBC_RCS -D__DBINTERFACE_PRIVATE -DPOSIX_MISTAKE -I/usr/src/lib/libc/locale -DYP -c /usr/src/lib/libc/rpc/svc_auth_unix.c -o svc_auth_unix.so cc -fpic -DPIC -O -DLIBC_RCS -DSYSLIBC_RCS -D__DBINTERFACE_PRIVATE -DPOSIX_MISTAKE -I/usr/src/lib/libc/locale -DYP -c /usr/src/lib/libc/rpc/svc_raw.c -o svc_raw.so cc -fpic -DPIC -O -DLIBC_RCS -DSYSLIBC_RCS -D__DBINTERFACE_PRIVATE -DPOSIX_MISTAKE -I/usr/src/lib/libc/locale -DYP -c /usr/src/lib/libc/rpc/svc_run.c -o svc_run.so cc -fpic -DPIC -O -DLIBC_RCS -DSYSLIBC_RCS -D__DBINTERFACE_PRIVATE -DPOSIX_MISTAKE -I/usr/src/lib/libc/locale -DYP -c /usr/src/lib/libc/rpc/svc_simple.c -o svc_simple.so /var/tmp/cc020911.s: Assembler messages: /var/tmp/cc020911.s:20: Error: no such 386 instruction: `p5shl' *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. I checked out the svc_simple.c file, doesn't seem to be a problem with it, and I have no idea about the assemly code (plus the /var/tmp file is gone..). TIA, -Mark :%t$sig -- Oops, thought I was in vi.. ------------------------------------------- | Mark Mayo mark@quickweb.com | | C-Soft www.quickweb.com | ------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 13:22:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA23881 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 13:22:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA23872 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 13:21:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA22329 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 22:21:23 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA24855 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 24 May 1996 22:21:23 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA23567 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 24 May 1996 21:59:12 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605241959.VAA23567@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Anybody using Xinside on -current? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 21:59:12 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605240721.JAA29718@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> from "Christoph P. Kukulies" at "May 24, 96 09:21:05 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Christoph P. Kukulies wrote: > > We're going to try it on a 2.1-stable kernel again to find the > > reasons. > > Are you using PCVT when using Xinside? (It's not my machine, btw.) No, the machine doesn't use the text console anyway, since it runs with a fixed-frequency monitor, and boots right into xdm. (We haven't tried pcvt however, but i don't think how this should be related to spurious mouse events in any way. The screen image is ok, it's only the pointing device that goes wild.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 13:23:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA23958 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 13:23:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA23949 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 13:23:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA22325; Fri, 24 May 1996 22:21:22 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA24854; Fri, 24 May 1996 22:21:22 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA23547; Fri, 24 May 1996 21:56:53 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605241956.VAA23547@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Adduser program in C To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 21:56:53 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: lithium@cia-g.com (Stephen Fisher) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from Stephen Fisher at "May 24, 96 01:29:50 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Stephen Fisher wrote: > I would like to heavily modify an adduser program, however the > distribution one in FreeBSD is in Perl. I don't do Perl. I would like > to write one in C but was wondering if anyone has done this before? Rewriting something from scratch for the only reason that _you_ don't know about the programming language it has been written in, i would consider unkind to the original author. (After all, Perl's one of the most used scripting languages of the world, nothing totally unknown.) To get me right: there might be several valid reasons for why you want to rewrite adduser, and even for why you wanna rewrite it in something else than Perl. But these reasons should be discussed before, and the author is also here and listening and available, so he should at least be asked for his opinion as well. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 13:29:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA24433 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 13:29:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gallup.cia-g.com (root@gallup.cia-g.com [206.206.162.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA24428 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 13:29:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gallup.cia-g.com (gallup.cia-g.com [206.206.162.10]) by gallup.cia-g.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA27096; Fri, 24 May 1996 14:31:08 -0600 Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 14:31:07 -0600 (MDT) From: Stephen Fisher To: Joerg Wunsch cc: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: Adduser program in C In-Reply-To: <199605241956.VAA23547@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I would be doing it for the sole purpose of adding a lot of site specific things as I did under Linux (finally digged up a skeleton to the adduser program and modifying it). I asked about it being in C because I know C and not Perl. :(. I would rather just add my things to the current adduser program. On Fri, 24 May 1996, J Wunsch wrote: > As Stephen Fisher wrote: > > > I would like to heavily modify an adduser program, however the > > distribution one in FreeBSD is in Perl. I don't do Perl. I would like > > to write one in C but was wondering if anyone has done this before? > > Rewriting something from scratch for the only reason that _you_ don't > know about the programming language it has been written in, i would > consider unkind to the original author. (After all, Perl's one of the > most used scripting languages of the world, nothing totally unknown.) > > To get me right: there might be several valid reasons for why you want > to rewrite adduser, and even for why you wanna rewrite it in something > else than Perl. But these reasons should be discussed before, and the > author is also here and listening and available, so he should at least > be asked for his opinion as well. > - Steve - Systems Manager - Community Internet Access From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 13:30:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA24556 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 13:30:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.via.net (ns.via.net [140.174.204.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA24550 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 13:30:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from joe@localhost) by ns.via.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA16182 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 24 May 1996 13:31:02 -0700 Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 13:31:02 -0700 From: Joe McGuckin Message-Id: <199605242031.NAA16182@ns.via.net> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: UPS question Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'd like to put a router and CSU's on a UPS. The total wattage is about 500W. If I get a 1000VA UPS, how long will the battery last? From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 13:37:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA25028 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 13:37:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.via.net (ns.via.net [140.174.204.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA25007 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 13:37:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from joe@localhost) by ns.via.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA16213; Fri, 24 May 1996 13:37:05 -0700 Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 13:37:05 -0700 From: Joe McGuckin Message-Id: <199605242037.NAA16213@ns.via.net> To: louie@TransSys.COM Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Why not get some vendor to modify a bios to remove all the wierd quirks imposed by the PC platform? Isnt there a freebie - MR. BIOS, or something like that? Some obvious modifications would be: - Use the serial port as console - Make the lack of keyboard and video a non-error We'd have to specify a reference platform for the BIOS, why not the ASIUS boards that everyone seems to like so much... -joe From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 13:44:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA25788 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 13:44:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA25776; Fri, 24 May 1996 13:44:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from venus.mcs.com (root@Venus.mcs.com [192.160.127.92]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA13530; Fri, 24 May 1996 15:44:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: by venus.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Fri, 24 May 96 15:44 CDT Message-Id: Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 15:44:18 -0500 (CDT) From: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" Cc: davidg@Root.COM, dennis@etinc.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605241946.MAA01597@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at May 24, 96 12:46:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Jordan's talking about other quality issues, like a poorly designed bus and >> rail design that allows for cards to become unseated fairly easily and the >> general lack of quality with 99.9% of the motherboards on the market. In this > > case, I'm refering to poor Q/A at the factory (bad cache ram, etc), poor > > BIOSes, etc. ...and then there's interoperability problems between various >> cards with various motherboards. This is one advantage that Sun machines have >> that PCs will never have - all the hardware is pretty much made by one vendor > > and this cuts down the interoperability/reliability problems dramatically. > > For those of us that come from minicomputer backgrounds (DEC PDP and VAX), > > it's all too obvious to us where the shortcomings are in PC hardware. > > On the other hand, I've had to reseat SBUS-connected TIGA boards on > AT&T/NCR X terminals on a 3-4 month rotation because thermal > expansion walks the right out. > > I personally prefer the MCA connector technology, but of course, we > "all" hate MCA. > > The Apple NuBUS cards and slot edge connections are also pretty > cool as far as good connector technology, but again, there's enough > play in the engineering that you can get impossible-to-install cards; > definitely a QC issue. The thing that really pisses me off about the PCs is the "edge-card" type of connector. Those things just don't hold their quality and connectivity over the long haul. VME-style connectors are a LOT more reliable. As in million-insertion reliable. Look at the backplane of a CISCO sometime (the 7xxx series) and you'll know what I mean. And yes, I know connectors aren't free. But I'd GLADLY pay $5/board more for connectors that HAD to mate 100% and couldn't bend the pins or jam during insertion. That would also mean that case and board tolerances would have to improve, or you'd end up with an impossible-to-insert card -- which will quickly drive the maker out of business. > All in all, the PC cards don't suck too badly if you use full length > cards and loking end-rails internally. With the screw on the other > end, the card isn't going anywhere. But almost none of them are full length now, and PCI makes the problem worse since they have shortened the "inserted" part of the board. EISA isn't too bad, as there is a LOT of contact area -- but PCI has the same problems ISA has, only worse, due to the small area of contact and poor tolerance control on the part of the component folks. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | T1 from $600 monthly; speeds to DS-3 available Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1] | 21 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net/ ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's only FULL Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 13:50:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA26384 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 13:50:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA26374 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 13:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id GAA16289; Sat, 25 May 1996 06:44:22 +1000 Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 06:44:22 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199605242044.GAA16289@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu Subject: Re: three stage boot again Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> The 64K restriction could be avoided by linking the real mode parts >> separately accessing them through call gates or software interrupts. >In other words, more magic. Only slightly more. Less magic in the protected mode part. >I'm not actually using the same table left behind by the bootstrap: >as soon as the program runs, it copies itself over the old bootstrap, >carrying with it its own compiled-in table, and it resets the GDTR >to use this table instead. The values in the table are actually >the same, but the location has changed. See locore.s for something similar. The GDT and IDT are relocated in advance so that the old ones can be used while the relocation is being debugged. >This was one place where I got confused because of the differences >between the Mach code and ours. The fact that our bootstrap actually sets >some of the values at run time didn't help. For example, in table.c in >the Mach code, a segment descriptor looks like this: > {0xFFFF, 0x1000, 0x0, 0x9E, 0x40, 0x0}, /* 0x08 : boot code */ >But in our biosboot code, the descriptor for the same segment looks >like this (after being filled in at run time, that is): > {0xFFFF, 0x0, 0x1, 0x9E, 0x40, 0x0}, /* 0x18 : boot code */ This was intended to be for dynamic relocation of the boot code, which would have been more useful when the entire kernel+bootstrap had to be loaded below 640K. If it worked, you could relocate the code by copying it and jumping to its beginning. Perhaps some of the complications for it can be deleted now. Other parts of the support for dynamic relocation got deleted/broken. >> > an OMAGIC binary. The code needs to be changed to check the magic >> > value of the binary and only skip the space for ZMAGIC binaries >> > instead of doing it unconditionally. > >> It should know nothing about binary formats. It should simply load files >> and jump to offset 0 in them. There should be code at offset 0 that >> understands the binary format. >Then you'd have to change the kernel too since it is written in a >particular binary format (a.out, ZMAGIC) which the bootstrap does >special things to accomodate. The trouble I was having was that the The kernel can know what format it is linked with and use less general code to initialize itself. Self-initialization tends to be simpler. OTOH it all needs to be written in assembler. >Now what I'd really like to do is to slam biosboot and netboot >together at high speeds. Don't forget fbsdboot :-(. I've always wished that it loaded the stage 2 bootstrap and not the full one, but there is a problem with that: the main point of fbsdboot is to load using drivers that aren't available at the BIOS level. Also, you can't get back to the BIOS level after starting DOS (because of hooked vectors). Thus it doesn't work to load kernel(s) into memory and then switch to the standard bootstrap. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 14:15:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA28664 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 14:15:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nightmare.dreamchaser.org ([207.40.47.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA28659 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 14:15:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mofo (mofo.dreamchaser.org [206.230.42.91]) by nightmare.dreamchaser.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA09407; Fri, 24 May 1996 15:15:12 -0600 Message-ID: <31A626DD.2E7D@ics.com> Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 15:15:09 -0600 From: Gary Aitken Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b3 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4c) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe McGuckin CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: UPS question References: <199605242031.NAA16182@ns.via.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'd like to put a router and CSU's on a UPS. The total wattage is about 500W. > > If I get a 1000VA UPS, how long will the battery last? We have a BackUPS Pro 1000, rated at 1000VA, maximum load 670W. The literature claims typical on battery runtime would be 9 min for a 700VA load, (500W x 1.4 = 700VA). We've never run it down, however, so I don't know what it really does. The power's only been off long enough to matter once, and after five minutes we manually shut everything down. We use it primarily for bridging short glitches, obviously. -- Gary Aitken garya@ics.com (business) garya@dreamchaser.org (personal) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 15:03:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA05618 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 15:03:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA05599 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 15:03:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id PAA13604 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 15:02:57 -0700 Received: from campa.panke.de (anonymous227.ppp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.227]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA23459; Fri, 24 May 1996 23:54:29 +0200 Received: (from wosch@localhost) by campa.panke.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA03357; Fri, 24 May 1996 23:54:11 +0200 Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 23:54:11 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider Message-Id: <199605242154.XAA03357@campa.panke.de> To: Stephen Fisher Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Adduser program in C In-Reply-To: References: Reply-to: Wolfram Schneider MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Linux has a adduser.c. Try archie or http://ftpsearch.unit.no/ftpsearch with string `adduser.c' Wolfram >I would like to heavily modify an adduser program, however the >distribution one in FreeBSD is in Perl. I don't do Perl. I would like >to write one in C but was wondering if anyone has done this before? From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 15:11:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA08957 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 15:11:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA08945 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 15:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA08886; Fri, 24 May 1996 15:10:25 -0700 (PDT) To: Terry Lambert cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.), msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, yves@CC.McGill.CA, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com Subject: Re: SDL cards In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 May 1996 10:48:57 PDT." <199605241748.KAA01376@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 15:10:25 -0700 Message-ID: <8884.832975825@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Unlikely. FreeBSD (unlike "The Linux Publicity Project") does not > issue press releases (even when it should). Actually, that's not quite true. Walnut Creek sends about 70 or so FreeBSD "press packs" to writers and editors in the trade press around the world everytime a CD is done. In the packs there's a T-shirt, some press release material, and a CD. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 15:35:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA11613 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 15:35:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA11575; Fri, 24 May 1996 15:35:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA08959; Fri, 24 May 1996 15:35:13 -0700 (PDT) To: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) cc: hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 May 1996 14:06:49 EDT." <199605241806.OAA01368@etinc.com> Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 15:35:13 -0700 Message-ID: <8957.832977313@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > These are the words of your "leader"? Being realistic about one's own strengths and weaknesses has never been a sin in any of the military manuals I've ever read (to continue your metaphor). Overestimating your abilities, on the other hand, generally presages disaster. > Most of this is your own fault, for buying cheap unknown cards, Be nice, Dennis - I was speaking "in the large" here. I don't, for the record, buy cheap unknown cards. I don't buy preconfigured systems, either. I buy systems assembled from a very carefully selected component list because I've been burned too many times by crappy (which is to say most) PC hardware. However, we in the FreeBSD project aren't in the hardware business, we're software vendors and we don't get a whole lot of say over what "our hardware" is going to look like. The best we can do is shoot for a high "approval rating", e.g. we dump the latest version on the net and a hoard of PC users shuffles over and sniffs it for awhile, finally holding up little index cards with numbers printed on them. We shoot for a 9.0, sometimes we get a 6.5 :-) In any case, that's the process and we really don't get to bitch and whine too much about what the _average_ PC hardware looks like if we want to get a high score, we just have to make it as robust as we can. That's why a lot of this talk about what one _can_ do with a PC is largely pointless. One can do a lot of things if one controls all the variables, but in our "market" that's about as far from being the case as one can get. You only need to satisfy one basic type of PC user in your market, Dennis, and that's a nice luxury to have. I speak from the perspective of someone who sees people trying to do _all sorts_ of things with PCs right now, and some of those things are simply not (IMO) appropriate. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 15:59:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA16736 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 15:59:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA16711; Fri, 24 May 1996 15:59:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA16902; Fri, 24 May 1996 16:57:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199605242257.QAA16902@rover.village.org> To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) Cc: davidg@Root.COM, dennis@etinc.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 24 May 1996 12:46:38 PDT Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 16:57:12 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : Good mounting technology that Sun : *doesn't* have. Personally, I liked the K-Bus cards in my solbourne. You'd slide them in guide rails, then lock them down in place with a couple of extra side levers. Never had a problem where we'd have to reseat the cards... Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 16:00:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA16986 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 16:00:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA16973 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 16:00:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA16933; Fri, 24 May 1996 16:59:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199605242259.QAA16933@rover.village.org> To: Joe McGuckin Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) Cc: louie@TransSys.COM, hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 24 May 1996 13:37:05 PDT Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 16:59:45 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : Some obvious modifications would be: : - Use the serial port as console : - Make the lack of keyboard and video a non-error I'd love to see something like that. Would save me $20/machine that I press into router service :-). Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 16:08:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA17485 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 16:08:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from doberman.cisco.com (doberman.cisco.com [171.69.1.178]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA17480 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 16:08:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (amcrae@localhost) by doberman.cisco.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA14520; Fri, 24 May 1996 16:07:44 -0700 Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 16:07:44 -0700 From: Andrew McRae Message-Id: <199605242307.QAA14520@doberman.cisco.com> To: dennis@etinc.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk dennis@etinc.com (Dennis): >>Have I said enough bad things about PCs yet? No, I don't think so. >>There's also the issue of Quality Control - two words you'll rarely >>see stuck together in the PC marketplace. You've got SCSI controllers >>from Croatia plugged into motherboards from Togo talking to disk >>drives that were purchased during a $0.10-a-megabyte special the local >>discount merchant ran. Several dozen failure-prone variables, at >>least half of which have probably never been tested in combination. > > These are the words of your "leader"? > > Most of this is your own fault, for buying cheap unknown cards, > discouraging and ridiculing commercial vendors for charging for > things that are worth it and not giving away their work, and using > software thats been slapped together by someone who doesnt have > enough time to spend on it to make it really work well. > > All of the routers on the market are just basically PCs, in one form or > another. Cisco OS is just a hacked up unix os, so what your really saying > is that the guys at cisco write better code than you do. I think that a lot > of the people on this list would take exception to that. I have been following this thread with some interest, and it has been enlightening to eavesdrop on the various points of view. I thought the comment about `cisco is the IBM of the networking world' hits the mark in some ways, but at least cisco was not called the Microsoft of the Networking world :-) I am interested in your comment about what the cisco OS is; can you perhaps expound on this viewpoint? Is this a statement from experience or observation? Cisco's motto and mission is to make the best routers in the world, and `best' encompasses a wide range of attributes such as functionality, reliability and performance. *I* know about that the cisco code is like, because I *look* at it every day. I am not here to be an apologist for cisco, however, and if you wish to complain about price or reliability or anything, whinge to your local SE, not me. I have also looked at the FreeBSD code, and written some of it. The biggest problem with FreeBSD is not the software, but the crappy hardware - and I don't just mean badly designed or badly made, but the architecture is somewhat lacking. It seems to be getting better with PCI, and PCI is also a technology that cisco is using for their own I/O adaptors. But even then, we use a different connector, and have extra pins so that hot swap can be supported. And even then we are pushing the technology to its limit. Saying that cisco engineers write better code is a specious argument, and totally ignores the hardware area. Again, *I* know, because I work with cisco hardware engineers every day, and I know the effort that goes into *both* hardware and software to make products viable. Sure enough, at the low end it is a price war, and perhaps cisco doesn't own 75% of the market; the access market will *always* price sensitive, and not as performance and function driven as mid and high end. But on the other hand, if your access routers fall over occasionally, or you don't mind powering it off to replace or install new line cards, then it's not the end of the world to have downtime. PC's can be used in this environment, and FreeBSD is a really good fit here. For mid range and certainly high end, I can guarantee you will not be routing 100,000 packets per second on a PC, however much memory and disc you put in it :-) And for the core routers of the Internet or in a large organisation, I suspect that you *would* be fired if you tried to use anything except a serious dedicated router. C'mon guys, use the right tool for the job. Don't tell me you can replace routers with PC's; I would like to see the PC that can sustain routing of over a million packets per second like a fully loaded 7513 can. On the other hand, I have yet to see a router run Doom... > Dennis Cheers, Andrew McRae (amcrae@cisco.com) Disclaimer: my thoughts only. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 16:21:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA18557 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 16:21:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA18552 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 16:21:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA09194; Fri, 24 May 1996 16:20:53 -0700 (PDT) To: Stephen Fisher cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Adduser program in C In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 May 1996 13:29:50 MDT." Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 16:20:53 -0700 Message-ID: <9192.832980053@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I would like to heavily modify an adduser program, however the > distribution one in FreeBSD is in Perl. I don't do Perl. I would like > to write one in C but was wondering if anyone has done this before? C is fine too.. Look at the dialog(3) library for a semi-reasonable way of making requests of the user. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 16:37:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA19550 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 16:37:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from filitov.isf.rl.af.mil (FILITOV.ISF.RL.AF.MIL [128.132.64.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA19545 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 16:37:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from green@localhost) by filitov.isf.rl.af.mil (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA03621 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 24 May 1996 19:35:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199605242335.TAA03621@filitov.isf.rl.af.mil> From: green@filitov.isf.rl.af.mil (Charles Green) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 19:35:44 +1000 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.4 2/2/92) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD StreamWorks Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I resently sent an e-mail to xingtech.com reguarding StreamWorks and they told me that they do plan to support BSDI in the future but currently don't have a scheduled release date yet. -- e-mail: home: chuck@fang.sunyit.edu (Charles K. Green) work: green@filitov.isf.rl.af.mil snail mail: 22 Powell Ave Apt. B Whitesboro, NY 13492 Home Phone: (315) 768-9244 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 17:07:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA21096 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 17:07:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nol.net (root@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA21090 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 17:07:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dazed.nol.net (blh@dazed.nol.net [206.126.32.101]) by nol.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA18946; Fri, 24 May 1996 19:06:28 -0500 (CDT) X-AUTH: NOLNET SENDMAIL AUTH Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 19:06:26 -0500 (CDT) From: "Brett L. Hawn" To: Joerg Wunsch cc: FreeBSD hackers , Stephen Fisher Subject: Re: Adduser program in C In-Reply-To: <199605241956.VAA23547@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 May 1996, J Wunsch wrote: > As Stephen Fisher wrote: > > > I would like to heavily modify an adduser program, however the > > distribution one in FreeBSD is in Perl. I don't do Perl. I would like > > to write one in C but was wondering if anyone has done this before? > > Rewriting something from scratch for the only reason that _you_ don't > know about the programming language it has been written in, i would > consider unkind to the original author. (After all, Perl's one of the > most used scripting languages of the world, nothing totally unknown.) > > To get me right: there might be several valid reasons for why you want > to rewrite adduser, and even for why you wanna rewrite it in something > else than Perl. But these reasons should be discussed before, and the > author is also here and listening and available, so he should at least > be asked for his opinion as well. Just to toss my 2 cents in I don't see how it would possibly be 'unkind' to the author. There are a fair number of basic scripts/programs that I've re-written to fit my needs simply because I wanted something more/different than what existed. Now were he wanting to replace the existing adduser in the fbsd distribution I would see that as what you're saying, but for personal use I just can't agree. Add to which I can't say that I much care for the perl version of adduser mysel, mind you its one of the few things I find perl usefull but beings that I don't much care for perl in general I've taken to writing mine in C as well. Brett From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 17:15:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA21801 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 17:15:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA21792 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 17:15:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA03656; Fri, 24 May 1996 17:14:45 -0700 Message-Id: <199605250014.RAA03656@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: green@filitov.isf.rl.af.mil (Charles Green) cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD StreamWorks In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 May 1996 19:35:44 +1000." <199605242335.TAA03621@filitov.isf.rl.af.mil> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 17:14:44 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I resently sent an e-mail to xingtech.com reguarding StreamWorks > and they told me that they do plan to support BSDI in the future but currently > don't have a scheduled release date yet. > > -- Yeah, thats what they said 4 months ago . However, their (cough) linux client seems to work on FreeBSD. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 18:27:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA26023 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 18:27:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA26018 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 18:27:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA19073; Sat, 25 May 1996 11:12:09 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605250142.LAA19073@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) To: joe@ns.via.net (Joe McGuckin) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 11:12:09 +0930 (CST) Cc: louie@TransSys.COM, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605242037.NAA16213@ns.via.net> from "Joe McGuckin" at May 24, 96 01:37:05 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Joe McGuckin stands accused of saying: > > Why not get some vendor to modify a bios to remove all the wierd quirks > imposed by the PC platform? *snort* Out of the mouths of babes. Sorry, it's just not that simple. > Isnt there a freebie - MR. BIOS, or something like that? Microid aren't stupid; it's shareware. > Some obvious modifications would be: > > - Use the serial port as console You'd be better off with an add-in ROM that hooked all the BIOS video calls. > - Make the lack of keyboard and video a non-error Many don't care already. > We'd have to specify a reference platform for the BIOS, why not the ASIUS > boards that everyone seems to like so much... ... because every single ASUS board requires different support. > -joe -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 18:56:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA27673 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 18:56:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA27668 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 18:56:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.7.5/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id KAA12139; Sat, 25 May 1996 10:56:41 +0900 (JST) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 10:56:41 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Dennis cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SDL cards In-Reply-To: <199605241621.MAA01179@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 May 1996, Dennis wrote: > >Granted. Ascends are very very nice. > > > >But there is no hack value. An ISDN-only solution using a P6 box with 3 > >busmastering SDLComm RISCom/Pri cards handling 69 incoming ISDN > >connections with STAC compression would be very cool. > > Yes and so would a molecular partical transporter :-) 69 B-channels at 64kpbs not 69 PRIs at 1.5Mbps. Is this more than rocket science? -mh From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 18:59:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA27780 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 18:59:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27775 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 18:59:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA02395; Fri, 24 May 1996 18:58:04 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605250158.SAA02395@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 18:58:03 -0700 (MST) Cc: joe@ns.via.net, louie@TransSys.COM, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605242259.QAA16933@rover.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at May 24, 96 04:59:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > : - Make the lack of keyboard and video a non-error > > I'd love to see something like that. Would save me $20/machine that I > press into router service :-). This a BIOS POST error. You need a different BIOS to make it work. It's pretty easy to hack one by hacking the INT 10 and INT 16 stuff into NOP's in an image of your current BIOS, and burn a new one into your EEPROM's. Or you can do the "keyboard dongle" thing. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 19:07:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA28251 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 19:07:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA28246 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 19:07:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA02407; Fri, 24 May 1996 19:01:56 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605250201.TAA02407@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: SDL cards To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 19:01:56 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, yves@CC.McGill.CA, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.com In-Reply-To: <8884.832975825@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at May 24, 96 03:10:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Unlikely. FreeBSD (unlike "The Linux Publicity Project") does not > > issue press releases (even when it should). > > Actually, that's not quite true. Walnut Creek sends about 70 or so > FreeBSD "press packs" to writers and editors in the trade press around > the world everytime a CD is done. In the packs there's a T-shirt, > some press release material, and a CD. :-) That's press relations, not press releases. A good company will produce 1-4 releases every month. I think the Linux publicity project does at least that many. It has nothing to do with whether on not you release a product (yes, that's good for a press-pack, and a T-shirt is a good press-pack freebie), but "...plans to" and "...has ported to" and "...now supports" and "...can run XXX's binaraies" and so on... I sent some samples of "press release ideas" under seperate cover. There's a difference between "publicity" and "marketing". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 19:07:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA28271 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 19:07:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA28263 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 19:07:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA02417; Fri, 24 May 1996 19:04:15 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199605250204.TAA02417@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Adduser program in C To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 19:04:15 -0700 (MST) Cc: lithium@cia-g.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9192.832980053@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at May 24, 96 04:20:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I would like to heavily modify an adduser program, however the > > distribution one in FreeBSD is in Perl. I don't do Perl. I would like > > to write one in C but was wondering if anyone has done this before? > > C is fine too.. Look at the dialog(3) library for a semi-reasonable > way of making requests of the user. The dialog library is a bogus layer for abstracting this type of thing. You want a command line tool that can be used by a generic UI using a dialog library or a GUI making Motif calls, etc., to avoid code duplication. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 19:12:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA28690 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 19:12:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA28685 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 19:12:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA02266; Fri, 24 May 1996 22:18:00 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 22:18:00 -0400 Message-Id: <199605250218.WAA02266@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Michael Hancock From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Re: SDL cards Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >On Fri, 24 May 1996, Dennis wrote: > >> >Granted. Ascends are very very nice. >> > >> >But there is no hack value. An ISDN-only solution using a P6 box with 3 >> >busmastering SDLComm RISCom/Pri cards handling 69 incoming ISDN >> >connections with STAC compression would be very cool. >> >> Yes and so would a molecular partical transporter :-) > >69 B-channels at 64kpbs not 69 PRIs at 1.5Mbps. Is this more than rocket >science? no, but a lofty goal at this point in the game, i think. Lets just say that you'd better see the beast before you try to tackle it. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 19:20:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA29169 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 19:20:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA29120 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 19:20:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA02273; Fri, 24 May 1996 22:23:10 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 22:23:10 -0400 Message-Id: <199605250223.WAA02273@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> These are the words of your "leader"? > >Being realistic about one's own strengths and weaknesses has never >been a sin in any of the military manuals I've ever read (to continue >your metaphor). Overestimating your abilities, on the other hand, >generally presages disaster. > >> Most of this is your own fault, for buying cheap unknown cards, > >Be nice, Dennis - I was speaking "in the large" here. I don't, for >the record, buy cheap unknown cards. I don't buy preconfigured >systems, either. I buy systems assembled from a very carefully >selected component list because I've been burned too many times by >crappy (which is to say most) PC hardware. However, we in the FreeBSD >project aren't in the hardware business, we're software vendors and we >don't get a whole lot of say over what "our hardware" is going to look >like. The best we can do is shoot for a high "approval rating", e.g. >we dump the latest version on the net and a hoard of PC users shuffles >over and sniffs it for awhile, finally holding up little index cards >with numbers printed on them. We shoot for a 9.0, sometimes we get a >6.5 :-) In any case, that's the process and we really don't get to >bitch and whine too much about what the _average_ PC hardware looks >like if we want to get a high score, we just have to make it as robust >as we can. > >That's why a lot of this talk about what one _can_ do with a PC is >largely pointless. One can do a lot of things if one controls all the >variables, but in our "market" that's about as far from being the case >as one can get. You only need to satisfy one basic type of PC user in >your market, Dennis, and that's a nice luxury to have. I speak from >the perspective of someone who sees people trying to do _all sorts_ of >things with PCs right now, and some of those things are simply not >(IMO) appropriate Then you're out of context regarding the discussion at hand, which happens to be the ability of an (obviously carefully selected) pc to be used as a 24 X 7 router reliably. db ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 19:21:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA29313 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 19:21:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from iectech.com (netgate.iectech.com [198.136.226.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA29295; Fri, 24 May 1996 19:20:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by netgate.iectech.com id <6159>; Fri, 24 May 1996 18:20:28 -0400 From: Chris Peltier To: "'michael@memra.com'" Cc: "'dennis@etnic.com'" , "'hackers@freebsd.org'" , "'freebsd-isp@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 22:12:47 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.12.736 Encoding: 19 TEXT Message-Id: <96May24.182028edt.6159@netgate.iectech.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Our organization has been very successful with the ET boards in T1 routing situations. We have set up national frame networks based on their products with 100% success. The QC/bug-free motherboard/card/chassis/powersupply issue is always an issue. It is our experience, however, that these problems are easily overcome. The PC hardware can be completely "hardened" to full industrial spec. exceeding typical router MTBFs. It is also our experience that our router/network downtime is far less then our carrier's and their is no ambiguity in routing/bandwidth issues. Sincerely, Chris Peltier * email: CPELTIER@IECTECH.COM * voice: 215-257-4917 * FAX: 215-257-4916 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 19:22:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA29416 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 19:22:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from seagull.rtd.com (root@seagull.rtd.com [198.102.68.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA29409 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 19:22:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dgy@localhost) by seagull.rtd.com (8.6.12/1.2) id TAA07299; Fri, 24 May 1996 19:22:48 -0700 From: Don Yuniskis Message-Id: <199605250222.TAA07299@seagull.rtd.com> Subject: Re: Mac Linux: Nothing to worry about :-) To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 19:22:47 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at May 24, 96 11:28:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > There is one fortunate thing out of all this: The OSF and Apple-developed > source code to the Mach kernel and Linux server are all freely available > and covered under a standard BSD-style copyright! Whoohoo! This means a > Free/NetBSD port to PowerMac is now feasible! Unfortunately I lack the > PPC assembly language and kernel hacking knowledge to undertake such a > beast, however I sincerely hope somebody else (Terry?) decides to take > this on. > > The question is: Would it be best to build a BSD "personality" > server on top of a Mach kernel, as MkLinux is built, or scrap that idea I assume MkLinux is a single server? > and build a traditional BSD kernel? OSF claims the advantage of Mach > lies in SMP, real-time, and portability (port the microkernel to a new > architecture, then simply recompile the Linux server), but obviously this > is going to use more RAM and CPU than a "native" BSD kernel. Comments? There are many performance hits with the microkernel approach. Though, with today's screamers and memory prices so low, I wonder if it really matters? And, while "multipersonality" hosts are feasible, I doubt anyone has ironed that issue out completely... Just my $0.02... From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 19:37:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA00708 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 19:37:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA00697 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 19:37:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.7.5/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id LAA12293; Sat, 25 May 1996 11:36:51 +0900 (JST) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 11:36:51 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Rodrigo Ormonde cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: splnet() and splx() In-Reply-To: <9605241317.AA09726@trem.cnt.org.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 May 1996, Rodrigo Ormonde wrote: > I'm working inside the FreeBSD kernel and sometimes I see the following > construction: (it is present in many modules) > > int s; > > s = splnet(); > > /* There is code here */ > > splx(s); > > Does anybody know what are the functions splnet() and splx() ? They are for blocking and restoring interrupts. spl stands for Set Priority Level. -mh From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 19:42:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA01081 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 19:42:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA01074 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 19:42:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA02360; Fri, 24 May 1996 22:48:11 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 22:48:11 -0400 Message-Id: <199605250248.WAA02360@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Andrew McRae From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk andrew McRae writes.... > >I have also looked at the FreeBSD code, and written some of it. >The biggest problem with FreeBSD is not the software, but the >crappy hardware - and I don't just mean badly designed or >badly made, but the architecture is somewhat lacking. >It seems to be getting better with PCI, and PCI >is also a technology that cisco is using for their own I/O >adaptors. But even then, we use a different connector, and have >extra pins so that hot swap can be supported. And even then >we are pushing the technology to its limit. > >Saying that cisco engineers write better code is a specious >argument, and totally ignores the hardware area. Again, *I* >know, because I work with cisco hardware engineers every day, >and I know the effort that goes into *both* hardware and >software to make products viable. I was being cynical. I think most of ciscos stuff is mediocre at best, particular their wan protocol implementation. > >Sure enough, at the low end it is a price war, and perhaps >cisco doesn't own 75% of the market; the access market will >*always* price sensitive, and not as performance and function >driven as mid and high end. But on the other hand, if your >access routers fall over occasionally, or you don't mind >powering it off to replace or install new line cards, then >it's not the end of the world to have downtime. PC's can be used in >this environment, and FreeBSD is a really good fit here. perhaps true, but you get a whole lot more bang for your buck. The big joke is that most equipment is obsolete in a year or less, so the hardware issue is really almost moot. Cisco doesnt have a low-end product that can compete with a pentium performance wise, and price-wise the pentium is a much higher performance choice until you get into high port densities. > >For mid range and certainly high end, I can guarantee you >will not be routing 100,000 packets per second on a PC, >however much memory and disc you put in it :-) >And for the core routers of the Internet or in a large >organisation, I suspect that you *would* be fired if >you tried to use anything except a serious dedicated router. you can come pretty close, but not with standard O/Ss. But i've never claimed that PCs were good candidates for backbone routers. Its just the 2500s and the 4000s that can be replaced. > >C'mon guys, use the right tool for the job. Don't tell me >you can replace routers with PC's. I would like to see the >PC that can sustain routing of over a million packets per second >like a fully loaded 7513 can. On the other hand, I have yet >to see a router run Doom... no, but 30 PCs can, for about the same cost as a 7513. Can a 2500 route a million packets per second? Why not just scrap it then, since its clearly inadaquate by your own standards? and lets be real. Cisco's performance numbers have always been theoretical. They can't do anything close to what the specs say. Funny how the numbers are always just about dead on the theoretical bus maximum. Perhaps you should check with your own company...Ive heard they've acquired a few PC card companies.... Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 20:31:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA02861 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 20:31:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA02854 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 20:31:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA19280; Sat, 25 May 1996 13:14:03 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199605250344.NAA19280@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 13:14:02 +0930 (CST) Cc: louie@TransSys.COM, dennis@etinc.com, karl@mcs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <8011.832959870@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at May 24, 96 10:44:30 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying: > I hope that the PC hardware market will eventually come to its senses > and start producing some real high-end commercial quality stuff to > match the workstations. Hand-selected components done by people who > actually know what they're doing, precision case design for both disk > arrays and CPU (I'd like to see totally different MB designs where the > PCI cards come in on rails), basically something done with > fault-tolerance rather than low-cost in mind. Then maybe you'll start > seeing more interesting custom PC setups (with fancy serial-aware > BIOSes, no doubt) in the regional NAPs. A lot of this exists already; you find it in what's known as the "industrial" computer market. We pay about AUD$1000 for the cases our radar controllers go into; for that we get a rackmount case with a drive chassis subframe on rubber mounts, positive-pressure filtered ventilation, EMC shielding suitable for the European markets we're selling into, a decent PSU, &c. &c. There are some really nice 'IPC' (Industrial PC) cases that would make building routers a dream; a the bottom end of the scale you have a wall-mounting box with 4 ISA slots, and at the top end you have things like 20-slot ISA backplanes, or 10 ISA, 6 PCI, or boards that have 2 or 3 seperate ISA backplanes. You pay more for the stuff, sure, but to match it in the 'workstation' world you're looking at VME gear from Force or Digital, and the cost of that sort of gear is _astronomical_. Also, xref. Karl's comments about DIN (what he calls 'VME') connectors. We use these in the hundreds, and whilst the _good_ ones are indeed good for lots of insertions, the cheap ones _aren't_. Also, if you force one in with a bent pin, you've written off the connector, and usually the card as well. Edge connectors have the dual benefits of being _cheap_ and robust. Ask anyone who's dealt with the Unibus/Qbus connectors that DEC used to use for a comparison. > Just remember the plumber's tape analogy for now - using it to run > cables across a carpet is a fine use, taping together a substitute for > cable trays in your machine room is not. :-) ...also please bear in mind that not everyone lives in the USA where the cable trays are cheap; locally-supplied plumbers' tape is, and you can do a lot with the spare cash. > Jordan -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 20:40:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA03367 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 20:40:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA03361 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 20:40:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA09662; Fri, 24 May 1996 20:40:09 -0700 (PDT) To: Terry Lambert cc: lithium@cia-g.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Adduser program in C In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 May 1996 19:04:15 PDT." <199605250204.TAA02417@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 20:40:09 -0700 Message-ID: <9660.832995609@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The dialog library is a bogus layer for abstracting this type of thing. > > You want a command line tool that can be used by a generic UI using > a dialog library or a GUI making Motif calls, etc., to avoid code > duplication. Sure, but for now I'd be happy to see a more functional adduser replacement - so far, none of the efforts which have set out to do this have born any fruit. :( Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 21:38:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA05995 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 21:38:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [204.214.4.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA05975; Fri, 24 May 1996 21:37:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from max4-149.HiWAAY.net by fly.HiWAAY.net; (5.65v3.0/1.1.8.2/21Sep95-1003PM) id AA11267; Fri, 24 May 1996 23:37:50 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199605241946.MAA01597@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at May 24, 96 12:46:38 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 23:30:38 -0500 To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" From: David Kelly Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 3:44 PM -0500 5/24/96, Karl Denninger, MCSNet wrote: >The thing that really pisses me off about the PCs is the "edge-card" type of >connector. Those things just don't hold their quality and connectivity over >the long haul. One of my pet peeves is how even the "highest quality" card manufacturers will scrimp on the copper (and maybe gold) edge connector by not placing copper on the unused connectors. In the Apple ][ days we saw many systems fail where a card was used that placed bare PCB material against a connector, then the card was replaced with one that needed to use that connector. The gold had abraded from the Apple's connector and no longer made a good enough contact. The only official solution was to replace the MB. No doubt Apple learned something from that lesson before the Mac II's NuBus. -- David Kelly N4HHE, n4hhe@amsat.org, dkelly@hiwaay.net ============================================================= To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. - Thomas Edison From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 23:41:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA13000 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 23:41:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dawn.ww.net (root@dawn.ww.net [193.124.73.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA12989 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 23:40:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from alexis@localhost) by dawn.ww.net (8.6.12/alexis 2.5) id KAA20185; Sat, 25 May 1996 10:40:25 +0400 Message-Id: <199605250640.KAA20185@dawn.ww.net> Subject: Re: APC Powerchute To: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 10:40:24 +0400 (MSD) From: Alexis Yushin Cc: jfieber@indiana.edu, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, sns@viaduk.net, green@fang.cs.sunyit.edu In-Reply-To: <199605241302.PAA22508@uriah.heep.sax.de> from J Wunsch at "May 24, 96 03:02:34 pm" Reply-To: alexis@ww.net (Alexis Yushin) X-Office-Phone: +380 65 2 26.1410 X-Home-Phone: +380 65 2 27.0747 X-NIC-Handle: AY23 X-RIPE-Handle: AY6-RIPE X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Once J Wunsch wrote: [...] >> powerchute v/s. I added a second type of ups to upsd that seems >> to work well. > >Hey, don't do this! :) He meant he added another model to upsd. Once I have some time I'll incorporate the patches. alexis [...] >Ask majordomo@ww.net for the upsd mailing list. Perhaps we should >convince Alexis now to make it an official port/package. Somebody (oh dont tell its me) still has to write the README :) -- Yesterday don't matter when it's gone From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 23:41:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA13055 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 23:41:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA12885 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 23:35:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA07032; Fri, 24 May 1996 23:35:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605250635.XAA07032@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Stephen Fisher cc: Joerg Wunsch , FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: Adduser program in C In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 24 May 96 14:31:07 -0600. Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 23:35:09 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I would be doing it for the sole purpose of adding a lot of site specific >things as I did under Linux (finally digged up a skeleton to the adduser >program and modifying it). I asked about it being in C because I know C >and not Perl. :(. I would rather just add my things to the current >adduser program. I'm not trying to tell you that you're wrong -- it's your system, and you're certainly welcome to do with it anything you desire. However, I think you'd be doing yourself a real favor by learning perl (and awk, sed, sh, grep, cut, etc.). It's The Right Thing To Do. It's The Unix Way: use small simple tools that are very good at a specific task, and combine them to make something better. Perl is one of those tools. Plus, if you were a real sysadmin (not saying you aren't -- I'm just saying one who makes a living at it), you'd want to write ALL your simple site-specific stuff as scripts, if at all possible. This has two advantages: 1) very quick and easy to modify on the fly [no edit; compile; test; edit; compile; test...], and 2) very easy for someone else to maintain if you move on to something else. With that in mind, you're doing yourself a disservice by locking yourself into a single paradigm for solving your problems. Look at this as a great opportunity to learn a new tool. :-) And, if you think everything I just said is a load of bull, or you're simply not interested in learning The Unix Way, hack up something in C and be happy. By the way, I just finished an excellent book by Peter H. Salus (published by Adison-Wesley), called "A Quarter Century of UNIX". Very interesting history of the evolution of Unix. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 23:43:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA13122 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 23:43:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dawn.ww.net (root@dawn.ww.net [193.124.73.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA13117 for ; Fri, 24 May 1996 23:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from alexis@localhost) by dawn.ww.net (8.6.12/alexis 2.5) id KAA20208; Sat, 25 May 1996 10:42:48 +0400 Message-Id: <199605250642.KAA20208@dawn.ww.net> Subject: Re: APC Powerchute To: jfieber@indiana.edu Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 10:42:48 +0400 (MSD) From: Alexis Yushin Cc: j@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, sns@viaduk.net, green@fang.cs.sunyit.edu In-Reply-To: from John Fieber at "May 24, 96 09:14:20 am" Reply-To: alexis@ww.net (Alexis Yushin) X-Office-Phone: +380 65 2 26.1410 X-Home-Phone: +380 65 2 27.0747 X-NIC-Handle: AY23 X-RIPE-Handle: AY6-RIPE X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Once John Fieber wrote: [...] >subsequent polls out of whack. An option for variable length >command results would be helpful here (unless I it is already >there and I just missed it!) Yes! Actually I was thinking about something like prinf/scanf patterns for both commands and replies... I'll try to find some time to work on the daemon in the near future. alexis -- Yesterday don't matter when it's gone From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 23:47:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA13334 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 23:47:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nike.efn.org (gurney_j@garcia.efn.org [198.68.17.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA13317; Fri, 24 May 1996 23:47:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gurney_j@localhost) by nike.efn.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA13645; Fri, 24 May 1996 23:43:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 23:43:25 -0700 (PDT) From: John-Mark Gurney Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney To: freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.org cc: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: SCSI hostadapter In-Reply-To: <199605240641.IAA21885@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 May 1996, J Wunsch wrote: > As Terry Lambert wrote: > > > I believe the NCR 53c7xx series (I don't recognize the "53C700-66" > > in particular, though) are not supported because they are very > > low end components, for which no one has written a driver. > > Reminds me: does anybody have any information about the 53C400? just use the nca driver... it will work... I used to run a cdrom off a card that used this chip... > I've got a couple of these boards sitting on a shelf, they used to > accompany HP ScanJets. I don't think they will be anything that can > be called performant, but just out of curiosity... Perhaps they are > good enough to recommend them to someone who needs an adapter for an > Archive Viper 150 or so (which i'd recommend rather than those floppy > tape crap). I never tested the performance with a scsi hard drive of the nc53c400.. (like I would want to run a scsi hard drive off a 8bit card)... but they do work... TTYL.. John-Mark gurney_j@efn.org http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Modem/FAX: (541) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 24 23:47:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA13392 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 May 1996 23:47:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nike.efn.org (gurney_j@garcia.efn.org [198.68.17.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA13383; Fri, 24 May 1996 23:47:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gurney_j@localhost) by nike.efn.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA13662; Fri, 24 May 1996 23:49:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 23:49:38 -0700 (PDT) From: John-Mark Gurney Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney To: Michael Smith cc: Jean-Marc Zucconi , gpalmer@freebsd.org, phk@critter.tfs.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: src/gnu In-Reply-To: <199605240638.QAA13532@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 May 1996, Michael Smith wrote: > Jean-Marc Zucconi stands accused of saying: [...] > - put the tarball somewhere other than /usr/ports. It's not going to > change very often. Still means you need space for both the tarball and > the unpacked version. Perhaps we could have a 'lite' tarball with all > the irrelevant stuff diked out, but that would be work. why not use the -T parameter to tar? just keep a list of files that you need and just pass that file to tar? then you just do a line like EXTRACT_AFTER_ARGS = -T somefile then keep somefile with a list of the needed files... TTYL... [...] John-Mark gurney_j@efn.org http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Modem/FAX: (541) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 00:00:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA13955 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 00:00:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA13948 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 00:00:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA02114; Sat, 25 May 1996 00:00:00 -0700 (PDT) To: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" cc: Stephen Fisher , Joerg Wunsch , FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: Adduser program in C In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 May 1996 23:35:09 PDT." <199605250635.XAA07032@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 23:59:59 -0700 Message-ID: <2112.833007599@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > However, I think you'd be doing yourself a real favor by learning perl > (and awk, sed, sh, grep, cut, etc.). It's The Right Thing To Do. > It's The Unix Way: use small simple tools that are very good at a > specific task, and combine them to make something better. I was with you right up through the awk, sed, sh, grep, cut.. You lost me at PERL. :-) Jordan P.S. I'm already well on record as saying that PERL is the anti-christ of computer languages, so I won't belabor that point here.. :-) Suffice it to say that I find PERL's syntax and structure highly objectionable. Give me a more structured language like TCL or LISP any day.. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 00:19:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA14862 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 00:19:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA14839 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 00:19:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA07315; Sat, 25 May 1996 00:10:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605250710.AAA07315@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Stephen Fisher , Joerg Wunsch , FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: Adduser program in C In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 24 May 96 23:59:59 -0700. <2112.833007599@time.cdrom.com> Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 00:10:08 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> However, I think you'd be doing yourself a real favor by learning perl >> (and awk, sed, sh, grep, cut, etc.). It's The Right Thing To Do. >> It's The Unix Way: use small simple tools that are very good at a >> specific task, and combine them to make something better. >I was with you right up through the awk, sed, sh, grep, cut.. You >lost me at PERL. :-) >P.S. I'm already well on record as saying that PERL is the anti-christ >of computer languages, so I won't belabor that point here.. :-) Well, I have to admit it was a stretch. But, perl *is* considered a de facto Unix tool by most modern sysadmins. Of course, it fails the "small" and "simple" tests of traditional Unix tools. But you can't deny that it has a place that can't be dislodged just because it has big warts. Consider it the emacs of scripting languages. :-) >Suffice it to say that I find PERL's syntax and structure highly >objectionable. Give me a more structured language like TCL or LISP >any day.. LISP. Ew. You can have it. :-) It's beautiful in its own way, yes. So is the ugly child to his mother. :-) LISP is an interesting theory thing that I find difficult to use in practice. Stephen, Jordan brings up good points. I recommended learning perl simply so you could expand yourself and learn new paradigms. However, don't stop there! Get intimate with all the traditional Unix tools (heaven knows, for most of the guys here, that's more intimate than they'll get with the opposite sex anytime soon... ;-). My personal NetBSD box is packed full of custom sh scripts that keep it constantly busy and productive. The FreeBSD box I'm attempting to assemble for our own mini-ISP work (an Internet co-op) as also accumulating some of my sh scripts. As I said, I'm learning perl mainly because I'll use it on Windows NT. When it comes to my own Unix box, it's sh, awk, sed, and all the other Unix tools that work together. I don't have any perl scripts, but there are a few applications where perl would work well. Remember another addage that applies especially well to Unix tools: The Right Tool For The Right Job. There is no (or there shouldn't be any) single tool that is used for every task. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 00:19:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA14867 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 00:19:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.32.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA14850; Sat, 25 May 1996 00:19:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.4Wbeta3) id QAA15619; Sat, 25 May 1996 16:19:08 +0900 Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 16:19:08 +0900 Message-Id: <199605250719.QAA15619@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: hackers@freebsd.org, mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Wavelan PCMCIA From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.18PL3] 1994-08/01(Mon) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi! Now I'm trying to drive AT&T GIS (NCR) Wavelan PCMCIA under PC-card package of FreeBSD. Now, the "Send" LED lights, but "Receive" LED has never lit yet (I tried broadcast ping). If you have this card, please help my debugging. You can get this source from, ftp://ryukyu.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/pub/alpha-test/pccard-test-current.tar.gz This patch is relative to 2.2-960501-SNAP. Thanks. -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 00:29:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA15287 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 00:29:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA15278 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 00:29:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA26840; Sat, 25 May 1996 09:28:44 +0200 (SAT) From: John Hay Message-Id: <199605250728.JAA26840@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 09:28:44 +0200 (SAT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605242259.QAA16933@rover.village.org> from Warner Losh at "May 24, 96 04:59:45 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL16 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > : Some obvious modifications would be: > : - Use the serial port as console > : - Make the lack of keyboard and video a non-error > > I'd love to see something like that. Would save me $20/machine that I > press into router service :-). > Most motherboard/BIOS combinations allow that nowadays. I have a lot of machines (PC's) that don't have a keyboard, screencard and screen. I manage them through the serial port or through the network. I only need a screen and keyboard if the CMOS setup has to change and that is normally only in the beginning. I use bootblocks that is a little modified to actually fail if their is no keyboard which is getting closer lately with the addition of the PROBE_KEYBOARD option. The other change that I make is to modify the probe routine of syscons to fail if there is no keyboard. Otherwise the system panic when it tries to do bcopy's to a nonexistant screencard. These two changes allow me to put a screen and keyboard into a sick machine and it will then use that and not the serial port anymore. John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 01:14:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA16831 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 01:14:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dima@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA16824; Sat, 25 May 1996 01:14:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605250814.BAA16824@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Adduser program in C To: michaelv@HeadCandy.com (Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 01:14:18 -0700 (PDT) Cc: lithium@cia-g.com, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199605250635.XAA07032@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> from "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" at May 24, 96 11:35:09 pm From: dima@FreeBSD.ORG (Dima Ruban) X-Class: Fast Organization: HackerDome X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com writes: > > > >I would be doing it for the sole purpose of adding a lot of site specific > >things as I did under Linux (finally digged up a skeleton to the adduser > >program and modifying it). I asked about it being in C because I know C > >and not Perl. :(. I would rather just add my things to the current > >adduser program. > > I'm not trying to tell you that you're wrong -- it's your system, and > you're certainly welcome to do with it anything you desire. > > However, I think you'd be doing yourself a real favor by learning perl > (and awk, sed, sh, grep, cut, etc.). It's The Right Thing To Do. > It's The Unix Way: use small simple tools that are very good at a First: this is not small tool. Second: this is slow tool. Third: this is not standard unix tool. > specific task, and combine them to make something better. > > Perl is one of those tools. I can't agree. > Plus, if you were a real sysadmin (not saying you aren't -- I'm just > saying one who makes a living at it), you'd want to write ALL your > simple site-specific stuff as scripts, if at all possible. This has > two advantages: 1) very quick and easy to modify on the fly [no edit; > compile; test; edit; compile; test...], and 2) very easy for someone > else to maintain if you move on to something else. > > With that in mind, you're doing yourself a disservice by locking > yourself into a single paradigm for solving your problems. Look at > this as a great opportunity to learn a new tool. :-) > > And, if you think everything I just said is a load of bull, or you're > simply not interested in learning The Unix Way, hack up something in C > and be happy. > > By the way, I just finished an excellent book by Peter H. Salus > (published by Adison-Wesley), called "A Quarter Century of UNIX". > Very interesting history of the evolution of Unix. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com > --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- > NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, > Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... > NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... > > Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. > If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- dima From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 02:04:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA21512 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 02:04:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA21507 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 02:04:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA10718; Sat, 25 May 1996 19:03:13 +1000 Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 19:03:13 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199605250903.TAA10718@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: imp@village.org, jhay@mikom.csir.co.za Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >The other change that I make is to modify the probe routine of syscons >to fail if there is no keyboard. Otherwise the system panic when it tries >to do bcopy's to a nonexistant screencard. It is supposed to default to a mono board with no VGA BIOS and only copy to mono screen memory if there is no video card there. This should be safe unless you have another device mapped into mono screen memory. Such devices must be even rarer than new mono boards :-). Anyway, you need it to fail so that the serial console is automatically used if there is no keyboard. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 02:12:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA22222 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 02:12:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA22146 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 02:12:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from allegro.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0uNFO9-000QYLC; Sat, 25 May 96 11:11 MET DST From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id LAA17949; Sat, 25 May 1996 11:10:07 +0200 Message-Id: <199605250910.LAA17949@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU To: karl@mcs.com (Karl Denninger, MCSNet) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 10:41:02 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers), isdn@muc.ditec.de (FreeBSD ISDN Distribution List) In-Reply-To: from "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" at May 23, 96 01:57:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Karl Denninger, MCSNet writes: > >> I think the board is under $500. I haven't looked into the prices for the >> software development kit. There are already people in both BSDI and >> FreeBSD moving on this. >> >> There will probably be licencing issues for STAC compression though. I >> still think it is worth following up on. >> >> If you look at the per B channel cost of a ASCEND MAX or Cisco 5200 UAS >> you can easily understand the excitement this card can generate. >> >> -mh > > Huh? > > A base ISDN-only ASCEND MAX is about $15,000 from many of the resellers out > there. This handles 47 ports, for a per-port cost of $312.00. > > That's not bad, But it's not as good as this board. Even if you only have 23 B channels, you're talking of more like $20 per B channel. > and in fact is less expensive than most analog-line solutions. Sure, that's one of the advantages of ISDN. > Its also a one-box 4.5" high solution that painlessly and easily > goes right into a rack configuration. I'm sure the board could be built into that form factor. > Add about $2000 to that price (for the HDLC slotcard) and the same unit > handles 95 ports, or $178 per "port". Are you saying it handles 5 PRIs? > This is too expensive? Hell, you can't even buy a decent modem *alone* for > that money! Assuming there's such a thing as a decent modem :-) But we're talking ISDN here, not analogue. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 02:13:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA22409 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 02:13:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA22392; Sat, 25 May 1996 02:13:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from coredump@localhost) by onyx.nervosa.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA02732; Sat, 25 May 1996 02:13:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 02:13:29 -0700 (PDT) From: "Chris J. Layne" To: Dima Ruban cc: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" , lithium@cia-g.com, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Adduser program in C In-Reply-To: <199605250814.BAA16824@freefall.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 25 May 1996, Dima Ruban wrote: > First: this is not small tool. > Second: this is slow tool. > Third: this is not standard unix tool. Fourth: I think i'm going to write a useradd program in C or C++; == Chris Layne ======================================== Nervosa Computing == == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 04:24:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA07682 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 04:24:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay5.UU.NET (relay5.UU.NET [192.48.96.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA07671 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 04:24:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uucp1.UU.NET by relay5.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: uucp1.UU.NET [192.48.96.32]) id QQarfh15351; Sat, 25 May 1996 07:23:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uanet.UUCP by uucp1.UU.NET with UUCP/RMAIL ; Sat, 25 May 1996 07:24:01 -0400 Received: from rock.lot.kiev.ua by clipper.cs.kiev.ua with uucp id m0uNHP8-0004vcC; Sat, 25 May 96 14:21 WET DST Received: (from dk@localhost) by rock.lot.kiev.ua (8.6.11/dk#3) id KAA29065; Sat, 25 May 1996 10:25:52 +0300 Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 10:25:52 +0300 From: Dmitry Kohmanyuk Message-Id: <199605250725.KAA29065@rock.lot.kiev.ua> To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: X11R6.1 available... Should we use? Newsgroups: cs-monolit.gated.lists.freebsd.hackers X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199605241807.LAA01418@phaeton.artisoft.com> you wrote: > > =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) (ache@astral.msk.su) wrote: > I'm still really curious what KOI-8 buys you that the ISO 8859 > character set does not. > Maybe I'm insane, but I don't think it matters which bit pattern > represents which character, as long as all the characters are > there... it buys me reading russian-language 8-bit mail, news, and WWW pages without installing proxies and/or local mailers which do recoding (oh, well, and please don't tell me I should use MIME - the overall brokennsess of character conversion support is still widespread (can mail(1) do it, e.g.? ;-)) remember, russian is native language for many of us; imagine you have EBCDIC on your machine when almost everybody else uses ASCII. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 06:23:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA19966 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 06:23:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA19952 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 06:23:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from coredump@localhost) by onyx.nervosa.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA05696; Sat, 25 May 1996 06:23:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 06:23:08 -0700 (PDT) From: "Chris J. Layne" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: unix + asm Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I was wondering where I could find info (preferably the web) on programming Assembly on Unix systems, preferrably FreeBSD on the 80x86 arch. Any info would be appreciated. == Chris Layne ======================================== Nervosa Computing == == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump == From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 08:08:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA28171 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 08:08:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sierra.zyzzyva.com (ppp0.zyzzyva.com [198.183.2.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA28165 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 08:08:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zyzzyva.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sierra.zyzzyva.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id KAA24561; Sat, 25 May 1996 10:07:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199605251507.KAA24561@sierra.zyzzyva.com> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "Louis A. Mamakos" , dennis@etinc.com (Dennis), "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) In-reply-to: jkh's message of Fri, 24 May 1996 10:44:30 -0700. <8011.832959870@time.cdrom.com> X-uri: http://www.zyzzyva.com/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 10:07:55 -0500 From: Randy Terbush Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan sayz: > If you look at, say, an HP 735 workstation in contrast then the > comparison is both striking and obvious - the HP was designed to work, > the PC was designed to sell. > I must make the following point... I spent the past 4+ years supporting both HP workstations and a "PC" product that I had designed from hand picked components, deployed in the same application. In the past 2 years we had far more (2:1) hardware failures in the HP equipment. It is possible to build a dependable piece of "PC" equipment. You just can't put crap in it, nor allow the customer to compare the final cost to an Acer from BB. -- Randy Terbush Zyzzyva Enterprises randy@zyzzyva.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 08:14:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA28345 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 08:14:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA28339 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 08:14:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA12581; Sat, 25 May 1996 08:14:29 -0700 (PDT) To: Randy Terbush cc: "Louis A. Mamakos" , dennis@etinc.com (Dennis), "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 May 1996 10:07:55 CDT." <199605251507.KAA24561@sierra.zyzzyva.com> Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 08:14:29 -0700 Message-ID: <12579.833037269@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I spent the past 4+ years supporting both HP workstations and a > "PC" product that I had designed from hand picked components, > deployed in the same application. In the past 2 years we had > far more (2:1) hardware failures in the HP equipment. I must say, your experience is not typical. I've also worked in environments with multiple HP (and DEC and Sun and IBM) workstations and hardly _ever_ seen a serious problem with one of them, save the occasional tape drive difficultly (oh, and if DEC's Tk50 wasn't already shipped broken from the factory you could quickly break it simply by sticking a tape in there :-). On the other hand, if experience with the various ISPs I work with is anything to go on, about 1 in every 5 PCs needs to be taken out back and shot once every couple of months, and this is with PCs built from _carefully selected_ parts. Fortunately, since these are PCs, I simply recommend having spares in stock and at least one box in a "hot swap" position. This costs a very minimal amount of money in comparison with the workstations and will get any reasonably forward-thinking ISP back on the air in an hour or less if they know what they're doing. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 09:33:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA01422 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 09:33:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA01417 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 09:33:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA04670; Sat, 25 May 1996 12:39:34 -0400 Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 12:39:34 -0400 Message-Id: <199605251639.MAA04670@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Andrew McRae From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk amcrae@cisco.com writes... >I have also looked at the FreeBSD code, and written some of it. >The biggest problem with FreeBSD is not the software, but the >crappy hardware - and I don't just mean badly designed or >badly made, but the architecture is somewhat lacking. >It seems to be getting better with PCI, and PCI >is also a technology that cisco is using for their own I/O >adaptors. But even then, we use a different connector, and have >extra pins so that hot swap can be supported. And even then >we are pushing the technology to its limit. > >Saying that cisco engineers write better code is a specious >argument, and totally ignores the hardware area. Again, *I* >know, because I work with cisco hardware engineers every day, >and I know the effort that goes into *both* hardware and >software to make products viable. I couldnt disagree more with you. Certainly there are benefits to custom hardware, but the bottom line is that hardware is either defective or not. Novell has figured out how to make PCs run forever...it not only can be done it has been done. As for hot swap, we've been selling cards for 8 years and i can count on one hand the number of boards that died in a box in the first 3 years in the field . Virtually all of the failures are some lightning event that trashed an unprotected machine or some banana pulling the card out while it was on (perhaps hoping for "hot swap"). It just doesnt happen enough to justify the price, unless your cards are flakey or run too hot. I remember a scenario a while back while at NYNEX, a company called Stratacom was peddling fully redundant CPU systems that we were considering for an accounting application. The price was about 220% of the vax's we were using at the time. We couldnt come up with a scenario which justified buying the stracom instead of 2 complete redundant vax systems. While the stratacoms were really neat and technically impressive, they just didnt give us the bang for the buck that we needed, as with the vax we could use the second one for development, testing and backup. The difference there was that if you lose 2 minutes of billing data it was gone forever. With the internet you just ruffle some feathers. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 09:41:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA01792 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 09:41:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA01786 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 09:41:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id SAA18910 ; Sat, 25 May 1996 18:41:23 +0200 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id SAA23304 ; Sat, 25 May 1996 18:41:23 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.5/keltia-uucp-2.7) id NAA25399; Sat, 25 May 1996 13:54:43 +0200 (MET DST) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199605251154.NAA25399@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: Adduser program in C To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 13:54:43 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, lithium@cia-g.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9660.832995609@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "May 24, 96 08:40:09 pm" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1983 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL16 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Jordan K. Hubbard said: > Sure, but for now I'd be happy to see a more functional adduser > replacement - so far, none of the efforts which have set out > to do this have born any fruit. :( I have one (new-account) in Perl that need: 1. to be documented ; 2. to be modified to use the one-user/one-group scheme with a switch. Except for this two points, it runs fine: new-account : Account Creation Program. Copyright (c) 1993, 94 by Ollivier Robert (roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net) Version 1.06.3 on 18/04/95. Usage: new-account [options] login fullname group [group...] Options: -N doesn't execute anything, just show commands, -m send greeting message to new user, -s shell specifies the shell to use instead of /sbin/tcsh, -u uid specifies une user-id to use (default is next free in class), -a alias specifies the alias to put in /etc/mail/aliases, -p pwd use that encrypted password, -q be quiet and do not display messages. Configuration file is /usr/local/etc/accountrc. Group definition file is /usr/local/etc/groupdefs. This version is even in Perl4 so one can use it with the standrad FreeBSD Perl from /usr/bin. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #2: Fri May 10 21:09:14 MET DST 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 10:16:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA02901 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 10:16:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA02896 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 10:16:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from venus.mcs.com (root@Venus.mcs.com [192.160.127.92]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA03225; Sat, 25 May 1996 12:16:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: by venus.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Sat, 25 May 96 12:16 CDT Message-Id: Subject: Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 12:16:17 -0500 (CDT) From: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, isdn@muc.ditec.de In-Reply-To: <199605250910.LAA17949@allegro.lemis.de> from "Greg Lehey" at May 25, 96 10:41:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Its also a one-box 4.5" high solution that painlessly and easily > > goes right into a rack configuration. > > I'm sure the board could be built into that form factor. > > > Add about $2000 to that price (for the HDLC slotcard) and the same unit > > handles 95 ports, or $178 per "port". > > Are you saying it handles 5 PRIs? 4 PRIs with one or two "D" channels (I prefer two so if you lose a span you're not hosed, which gives you 94 usable channels). > > This is too expensive? Hell, you can't even buy a decent modem *alone* for > > that money! > > Assuming there's such a thing as a decent modem :-) But we're talking > ISDN here, not analogue. > > Greg -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | T1 from $600 monthly; speeds to DS-3 available Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1] | 21 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net/ ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's only FULL Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 10:34:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA06047 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 10:34:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from itesec.hsc.fr (root@itesec.hsc.fr [192.70.106.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA06018 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 10:34:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tetard.hsc.fr (tetard.hsc.fr [192.70.106.43]) by itesec.hsc.fr (8.7.5/8.7.3/itesec-1.8) with ESMTP id TAA15632 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 19:34:23 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by tetard.hsc.fr (8.7.5/8.7.3/tetard-uucp-2.8) id TAA07641 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 25 May 1996 19:33:58 +0200 (MET DST) From: Philippe Regnauld Message-Id: <199605251733.TAA07641@tetard.hsc.fr> Subject: Re: Adduser program in C To: hackers@freebsd.org (hackers) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 19:33:57 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Stephen Fishert / writes: > > I would be doing it for the sole purpose of adding a lot of site specific > things as I did under Linux (finally digged up a skeleton to the adduser > program and modifying it). I asked about it being in C because I know C > and not Perl. :(. I would rather just add my things to the current > adduser program. Then I have trouble getting your point :-) Even though the adduser script we already have is dedicated to FreeBSD, there is no need to make it more so. The advantage of Perl is the easy updating of the code -- this makes it a lesser pain when things move around. And adduser is *not* one of those things you'll run often enough to complain about execution speed or memory use. Another point is that C is sometimes too dense for such simple administration tools. Not all people running FreeBSD will want to be forced to recompile adduser or use a separate configuration file. Perl code is straightforward enough that you can directly modify for site specific purposes. PS: I have in mind creating a series of X admin tools with Perl/Tk for FreeBSD. The main advantages are: easy to maintain, and easy to adapt to other Unices (i.e.: Linux, etc.) -- +-------------------+---------------------------------------+-----------------+ | Philippe Regnauld |_______Herve Schauer Consultants_______| regnauld@hsc.fr | +-------------------+FreeBSD - Turning PCs into Workstations+-----------------+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 11:08:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA07030 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 11:08:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from itesec.hsc.fr (root@itesec.hsc.fr [192.70.106.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA07025 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 11:08:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tetard.hsc.fr (tetard.hsc.fr [192.70.106.43]) by itesec.hsc.fr (8.7.5/8.7.3/itesec-1.8) with ESMTP id UAA16065; Sat, 25 May 1996 20:08:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by tetard.hsc.fr (8.7.5/8.7.3/tetard-uucp-2.8) id UAA07682; Sat, 25 May 1996 20:07:50 +0200 (MET DST) From: Philippe Regnauld Message-Id: <199605251807.UAA07682@tetard.hsc.fr> Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 20:07:49 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org (hackers) In-Reply-To: <8011.832959870@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "May 24, 96 10:44:30 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard écrit / writes: > > Have I said enough bad things about PCs yet? No, I don't think so. > There's also the issue of Quality Control - two words you'll rarely > see stuck together in the PC marketplace. You've got SCSI controllers > from Croatia plugged into motherboards from Togo talking to disk > drives that were purchased during a $0.10-a-megabyte special the local > discount merchant ran. Several dozen failure-prone variables, at > least half of which have probably never been tested in combination. > > If you look at, say, an HP 735 workstation in contrast then the > comparison is both striking and obvious - the HP was designed to work, > the PC was designed to sell. > Just a word there: talking about 'serious' and industrial quality computers: even HP today does not offer the same robustness in its station/server casings: most of the stuff that comes out today looks like some kind of Mac case. A friend of mine has got runnning, side by side, HP/Apollos and a couple of 715 and J800. How come the recent stuff looks like plastic, and *is* plastic ? There's not even half the shielding in those things that would make them qualify for industrial use. Even their 'high end' servers look like they're desktop workstations (hell, they even have stereo outputs and hardwired mpeg decompression). Just to say that it's not much better in the "Real Hardware" world -- we *know* PC's suck (i.e.: I'm currently using a Tadpole pentium laptop machine - now, you know how serious their Sparc machines are: magnesium casing, heavy duty MB, etc.. - well this one is joke: we've already traded the machine twice(faulty parallel, dead battery controller), and they do NOT implement APM in any way! It's even shipped with Win95. Ask Stefan the bogusness of their PCI implementation). But at least, while the 'serious' constructors are letting go on quality, PC makers are starting to make an effort, and you can see really usable industrial casings and components. It's "only" a matter of where the hand-picking lies: you have to select the stuff yourself; there aren't many people out there who offer quality-assembly/component PC's. My 0.02 Euros. -- Phil -- +-------------------+---------------------------------------+-----------------+ | Philippe Regnauld |_______Herve Schauer Consultants_______| regnauld@hsc.fr | +-------------------+FreeBSD - Turning PCs into Workstations+-----------------+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 11:33:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA08040 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 11:33:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sierra.zyzzyva.com (ppp0.zyzzyva.com [198.183.2.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA08033 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 11:33:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zyzzyva.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sierra.zyzzyva.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id NAA07152; Sat, 25 May 1996 13:29:09 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199605251829.NAA07152@sierra.zyzzyva.com> To: John Hay cc: imp@village.org (Warner Losh), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) In-reply-to: jhay's message of Sat, 25 May 1996 09:28:44 +0200. <199605250728.JAA26840@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> X-uri: http://www.zyzzyva.com/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 13:29:07 -0500 From: Randy Terbush Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > : Some obvious modifications would be: > > : - Use the serial port as console > > : - Make the lack of keyboard and video a non-error > > > > I'd love to see something like that. Would save me $20/machine that I > > press into router service :-). > > > Most motherboard/BIOS combinations allow that nowadays. I have a lot of > machines (PC's) that don't have a keyboard, screencard and screen. I > manage them through the serial port or through the network. I only > need a screen and keyboard if the CMOS setup has to change and that is > normally only in the beginning. > I've yet to find a Triton BIOS that will boot without a video card installed. Have you? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 11:44:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA08695 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 11:44:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA08690 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 11:44:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id LAA19619 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 11:44:30 -0700 Received: from doberman.cisco.com (doberman.cisco.com [171.69.1.178]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.5/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with SMTP id LAA05130 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 11:43:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (amcrae@localhost) by doberman.cisco.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA08624; Sat, 25 May 1996 11:40:03 -0700 Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 11:40:03 -0700 From: Andrew McRae Message-Id: <199605251840.LAA08624@doberman.cisco.com> To: dennis@etinc.com Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>know, because I work with cisco hardware engineers every day, >>and I know the effort that goes into *both* hardware and >>software to make products viable. > >I was being cynical. I think most of ciscos stuff is mediocre at >best, particular their wan protocol implementation. I really can't (and won't) comment - I try and avoid exchanges that may degenerate into the usual Usenet pattern. I do think that if you have *specific* criticisms or comments, cisco are open to hearing them. Try cisco@spot.colorado.edu. >>it's not the end of the world to have downtime. PC's can be used in >>this environment, and FreeBSD is a really good fit here. > >perhaps true, but you get a whole lot more bang for your buck. >The big joke is that most equipment is obsolete in a year >or less, so the hardware issue is really almost moot. Well, this is usually true with PCs, but usually people like to install routers for the long term; there are still lots of AGS and 4000s out there, even though they are years old. I wish that people did replace their routers every year; boy, would *that* rocket the stock price :-) >>And for the core routers of the Internet or in a large >>organisation, I suspect that you *would* be fired if >>you tried to use anything except a serious dedicated router. > >you can come pretty close, but not with standard O/Ss. But >i've never claimed that PCs were good candidates for backbone >routers. Its just the 2500s and the 4000s that can be >replaced. Well, perhaps it is true; compare apples with apples - put together the lowest priced configuration and *then* benchmark it. I used to have a PC-route 286 box running that I put together out of scrap. But it couldn't handle 1/10 the traffic that a 4000 could. I suspect that by the time you built a box that performs the same as a 4500 (which is *really* the cisco mid range box), you would be spending similar $$. But if it is as cheap as you say, go do it! Lots of people would buy one, and you would make lotsa $$. >>C'mon guys, use the right tool for the job. Don't tell me >>you can replace routers with PC's. I would like to see the >>PC that can sustain routing of over a million packets per second >>like a fully loaded 7513 can. On the other hand, I have yet >>to see a router run Doom... > >no, but 30 PCs can, for about the same cost as a 7513. Can a >2500 route a million packets per second? Why not just >scrap it then, since its clearly inadaquate by your own standards? I don't understand this argument; are you saying that 30 PCs will do the same job as a 7513? How? And weren't we talking about core routers? What's a 2500 got to do with it? I thought you never claimed that PCs were good candidates for backbone routers? Just what *are* you saying? >and lets be real. Cisco's performance numbers have always >been theoretical. They can't do anything close to what the specs >say. Funny how the numbers are always just about dead on >the theoretical bus maximum. I certainly *must* take exception to that. *Please* don't fall into the Usenet trap of making outrageous statements without any proof of numbers! I personally have run a lot of cisco products at the specified max throughput. Again, be specific! Which products have you tested? What was the configuration? what numbers did you achieve? Which `theoretical bus maximum' number are talking about here? Generally the bottleneck is CPU performance, not the bus bandwidth. Cisco's performance numbers *are* measured values, *not* calculated theoretical numbers. >Perhaps you should check with your own company...Ive heard >they've acquired a few PC card companies.... And also a few frame relay companies, and ATM companies, and about a dozen other companies. Nothing succeeds like success :-) >Dennis Andrew McRae (suspecting that getting on this thread was a mistake) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 11:49:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA08987 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 11:49:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from doberman.cisco.com (doberman.cisco.com [171.69.1.178]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA08982 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 11:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (amcrae@localhost) by doberman.cisco.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA08805; Sat, 25 May 1996 11:48:34 -0700 Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 11:48:34 -0700 From: Andrew McRae Message-Id: <199605251848.LAA08805@doberman.cisco.com> To: dennis@etinc.com Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >As for hot swap, we've been selling cards for 8 years and i can >count on one hand the number of boards that died in a box in >the first 3 years in the field . Virtually all of the failures are some >lightning >event that trashed an unprotected machine or some banana >pulling the card out while it was on (perhaps hoping for "hot >swap"). It just doesnt happen enough to justify the price, unless >your cards are flakey or run too hot. By far and away the reason that cards are hot swapped in cisco boxes is because configuration changes can occur frequently in some environments, new interfaces are added, interfaces are moved to new or existing boxes etc. Imagine an ISP who, everytime a new customer came online, had to shutdown his router to install new line cards; some do, but a lot prefer to maintain high uptime. It is fairly rare to hot swap cards because of failure. cheer, AMc From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 12:29:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA10287 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 12:29:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA10281 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 12:29:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA04934; Sat, 25 May 1996 15:35:27 -0400 Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 15:35:27 -0400 Message-Id: <199605251935.PAA04934@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Andrew McRae From: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis) Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>And for the core routers of the Internet or in a large >>>organisation, I suspect that you *would* be fired if >>>you tried to use anything except a serious dedicated router. >> >>you can come pretty close, but not with standard O/Ss. But >>i've never claimed that PCs were good candidates for backbone >>routers. Its just the 2500s and the 4000s that can be >>replaced. > >Well, perhaps it is true; compare apples with apples - put >together the lowest priced configuration and *then* benchmark >it. I used to have a PC-route 286 box running that I put >together out of scrap. But it couldn't handle 1/10 the >traffic that a 4000 could. I suspect that by the time >you built a box that performs the same as a 4500 (which is >*really* the cisco mid range box), you would be spending >similar $$. But if it is as cheap as you say, go do it! >Lots of people would buy one, and you would make lotsa $$. we are, thanks. I think your data is a tad old...'286 with PC-route, c'mon now! Just for fun, a '486 with 2 pci ethernets and a dual t1 card can handle full 10Mbs on both ethernets and full-duplex full T1 on the serial port simulatanously. Pretty snazzy, dont you think? PC cost, less than $1400. If you're really the hardware guru you say then you know how a 25XX dual ethernet fares in this test........ > >>>C'mon guys, use the right tool for the job. Don't tell me >>>you can replace routers with PC's. I would like to see the >>>PC that can sustain routing of over a million packets per second >>>like a fully loaded 7513 can. On the other hand, I have yet >>>to see a router run Doom... >> >>no, but 30 PCs can, for about the same cost as a 7513. Can a >>2500 route a million packets per second? Why not just >>scrap it then, since its clearly inadaquate by your own standards? > >I don't understand this argument; are you saying that 30 PCs >will do the same job as a 7513? How? And weren't we talking about >core routers? What's a 2500 got to do with it? I thought you never >claimed that PCs were good candidates for backbone routers? Just >what *are* you saying? you're the one that said that "PCs cant replace routers". Is a 25xx not a router? Your definition of a router changes from paragraph to paragraph. Maybe thats the problem. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 12:46:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA10993 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 12:46:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alpha.jpunix.com (root@alpha.jpunix.com [199.3.234.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA10988 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 12:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from perry@localhost) by alpha.jpunix.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id OAA11287 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 25 May 1996 14:46:35 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 14:46:33 -0500 (CDT) From: "John A. Perry" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- unsubscribe freebsd-hackers end John Perry - KG5RG - perry@alpha.jpunix.com - PGP-encrypted e-mail welcome! WWW - http://www.jpunix.com PGP 2.62 key for perry@jpunix.com is on the keyservers. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMadjm1OTpEThrthvAQEH2QP+MgfktBOJm4s4tBfh7BY6KCOAnszOp21g RxLp65fFj0MO6g6C0bXXHq+Zriw4BCjDfydRlvO7c0DrZr/V8rQQofAiHWhBjdQQ o+JNt4BG6GHRmHwjO+YjxqNbsFNbnkH8T1ZL6wG2+Nj0uDJpnK7uFkl49rOaifPI 0P7JAI5hhFo= =BpM3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 13:45:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA13545 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 13:45:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA13537 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 13:45:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA14078 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 22:45:44 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA08273 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 25 May 1996 22:45:44 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA27031 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 25 May 1996 22:27:23 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605252027.WAA27031@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: unix + asm To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 22:27:23 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "Chris J. Layne" at "May 25, 96 06:23:08 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Chris J. Layne wrote: > I was wondering where I could find info (preferably the web) on > programming Assembly on Unix systems, preferrably FreeBSD on the 80x86 > arch. Any info would be appreciated. While documentation on Unix is generally stored in files ending in .c, documentation on assembler programming in Unix is generally stored in files ending in .s or .S. I think there has been a paper on assembler programming in the V7 documentation (somewhere in volume 2), but i haven't ever printed it. (NB: the V7 doc is available online, but it often requires a fair amount of tweaking to be formatted with groff, since it has been written for the original [device-dependant, i.e. C-A-T] troff.) Of course, all this raises the question: why do you wanna do this? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 14:20:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA14879 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 14:20:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA14874 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 14:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from venus.mcs.com (root@Venus.mcs.com [192.160.127.92]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA07705 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 16:20:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: by venus.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Sat, 25 May 96 16:20 CDT Message-Id: Subject: Grrr.. is this is a FreeBSD problem (TIME_WAIT again) To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 16:20:41 -0500 (CDT) From: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi folks. I have some custom code here which does TCP socket work, in many cases within the same machine. Both ends of the connection call shutdown(socket, 2) and close(socket) before exiting, and both insure that linger is turned off on their respective ends of the link. If the caller and callee are on DIFFERENT machines, I get no stale sockets. This is reliable even if there are tens of new connections per minute. If the caller and callee are on the SAME machine, I get sockets in TIME_WAIT for 2 minutes each (grrrr) which, if the traffic is heavy enough, eventually blocks new connections for a few minutes until they clear up. None of the sockets in TIME_WAIT has output or input pending; both counts show zero. This is a serious problem! Interestingly enough, I can switch the end of the link which "netstat" thinks is the "local" end by changing who calls shutdown() first! This is also unexpected; I would have thought that the caller ALWAYS would be the "local" side of the connection. I've checked and rechecked -- the same code, running across two machines, does not do this. But when the calling and called code are on the same system (2.1-STABLE) it does -- repeatedly and reliably. Any ideas? While one solution would be to get the code off the same (common) machine, there are reasons that I don't want to do this in normal production. But, I need to use TCP (rather than local Unix domain sockets) because the BACKUP server is on a different system (in the event the first one crashes). Why would this happen when the caller and callee are on the same box, but not when the traffic actually goes across the network? Has anyone else seen anything like this in their experience? Due to the structure of this module (its a drop-in into a stock daemon from another source) I cannot leave the socket open across requests, and I'd like to understand the reason for this behavior anyway. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | T1 from $600 monthly; speeds to DS-3 available Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1] | 21 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net/ ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's only FULL Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 14:21:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA14922 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 14:21:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA14916 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 14:21:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA14640 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 23:21:46 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA08514 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 25 May 1996 23:21:46 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA27311 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 25 May 1996 22:53:17 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199605252053.WAA27311@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 22:53:17 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199605251829.NAA07152@sierra.zyzzyva.com> from Randy Terbush at "May 25, 96 01:29:07 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Randy Terbush wrote: > I've yet to find a Triton BIOS that will boot without a video > card installed. Have you? Too bad AMI seems to be off the air. Their BIOSes were able to do all the POST error communication with beep codes, so they could be configured to run without a video card. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 14:24:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA15036 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 14:24:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from doberman.cisco.com (doberman.cisco.com [171.69.1.178]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA15028 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 14:23:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (amcrae@localhost) by doberman.cisco.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA09917 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 25 May 1996 14:23:26 -0700 Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 14:23:26 -0700 From: Andrew McRae Message-Id: <199605252123.OAA09917@doberman.cisco.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Routers and FreeBSD (let's have a bakeoff) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dennis, perhaps we'd all better calm down and stop the Usenet pattern of degenerating the discussion into name-calling... ;-) Let's not let the heat outweigh the light.. >we are, thanks. I think your data is a tad old...'286 with PC-route, >c'mon now! Just for fun, a '486 with 2 pci ethernets and a dual t1 >card can handle full 10Mbs on both ethernets and >full-duplex full T1 on the serial port simulatanously. Pretty >snazzy, dont you think? PC cost, less than $1400. I presented the old 286 as something I had done, not as a prime example of current technology :-) I certainly agree that PC technology can do the job of a small router; I have done that myself with other Unix workstations, as well as FreeBSD machines. I have strived to always follow the John Mashey rule of claims - always back up what you say with actual, observed evidence, and always disclose the parameters of the test. I don't doubt that your quoted configuration works in real life, but it depends on what you call `handle'. Give me a observed pps on each interface, using mimimum sized packets. Ethernet can run around 13 or 14 Kpps, and a full duplex T1 will run around 7200 pps. The industry accepted minimum sized packet is 64 byte ether, 52 bytes serial (ether - mac header + serial encap). Can a PC really handle a total of 7200 + 14K + 14K = 35200 pps? I don't know - it's actually something I can test really easily, and it would be an interesting exercise for you to send me a sample config and then I can have a bakeoff in the lab. BTW this kind of config is very low end. I am much more interested if you put a couple of Fast Ethernets in and then run a 45 Mbit T3. *That's* a serious configuration :-) If people are interested, I will publish the results. Again, full disclosure of the environment is important. >If you're really the hardware guru you say then you know how a >25XX dual ethernet fares in this test........ Well, Dennis, let's not start getting personal.. I never claimed to be a hardware guru, and I certainly am not going to start now. I also know little about 2500's. The big iron is what I do and am interested in. I consider the access stuff fairly dinky :-) Let state *again* for the record - in the access arena, I have no doubt that intermingled among the ciscos, Ascends, Annexes, Bays and myriad other vendors, BSDi and FreeBSD PCs can stand their own, and even be a *better* platform in some cases; perhaps cisco should put together a platform like this as a low end small ISP box, and put some of it's IOS protocol handling in it, kind of like what we're doing with Microsoft's NT. >>I don't understand this argument; are you saying that 30 PCs >>will do the same job as a 7513? How? And weren't we talking about >>core routers? What's a 2500 got to do with it? I thought you never >>claimed that PCs were good candidates for backbone routers? Just >>what *are* you saying? > >you're the one that said that "PCs cant replace routers". Is a 25xx not >a router? Your definition of a router changes from paragraph to >paragraph. Maybe thats the problem. Well, I did say `core router'. I never said that PCs can't replace routers; I have done that myself. Just be careful when you start comparing PCs to the serious routers; that's a different scale of things. Again, I'll say: use the right tool for the job. Routers are like computers - there is a wide spectrum in terms of price and performance. >Dennis Andrew McRae (*really* starting to wonder why I bothered with this thread) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 15:07:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA16851 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 15:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA16845 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 15:07:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.7.5/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id HAA17255; Sun, 26 May 1996 07:07:24 +0900 (JST) Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 07:07:24 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Andrew McRae cc: dennis@etinc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The view from here (was Re: ISDN Compression Load on CPU) In-Reply-To: <199605251840.LAA08624@doberman.cisco.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 25 May 1996, Andrew McRae wrote: > number are talking about here? Generally the bottleneck is > CPU performance, not the bus bandwidth. Cisco's performance > numbers *are* measured values, *not* calculated theoretical numbers. What CPU's are Cisco using these days? Are they still 68000's? They were a good choice a while back, but there must be some "moving to the next generation" pains now. I heard there's porting work being done to Intel because of the Compaq deal. I guess Cisco wants to take a stab at the high volume market. -mh From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 15:20:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA17353 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 15:20:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA17348 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 15:20:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA00497 for ; Sun, 26 May 1996 00:20:18 +0200 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA04273 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Sun, 26 May 1996 00:19:45 +0200 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA18118 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Sat, 25 May 1996 23:33:04 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA03530 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 25 May 1996 20:34:49 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199605251834.UAA03530@yedi.iaf.nl> X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands Subject: all this talk about routers and all... To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 20:34:48 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Granted, I did learn quit some interesting things from the holy war we are currently experiencing. But I cannot get rid of the feeling this is _NOT_ a -hackers issue but more a religious war. Any chance this can be moved to a -freebsd-kills-dedicated-network-hardware mailing list?? ....Please?? Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 15:21:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA17448 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 15:21:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA17443 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 15:21:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA01157 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 15:21:25 -0700 Message-Id: <199605252221.PAA01157@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 to: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Routers and FreeBSD (let's have a bakeoff) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 May 1996 14:23:26 PDT." <199605252123.OAA09917@doberman.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 15:21:23 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Couldn't we all get along and have a code fest? 8) As the great philosophical debates rages on, a simple task remains unchallenged: 1. Code for RISCom/Pri Clearly, there is a need for small ISPs to support multiple ISDN connections and much wider support for PC ISDN cards. Okay, I know that this is no fun : so great philophical debates may now continue. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 15:37:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA18167 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 15:37:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA18162 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 15:37:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id PAA23150; Sat, 25 May 1996 15:37:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605252237.PAA23150@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Grrr.. is this is a FreeBSD problem (TIME_WAIT again) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 May 1996 16:20:41 CDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 15:37:47 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >If the caller and callee are on DIFFERENT machines, I get no stale sockets. >This is reliable even if there are tens of new connections per minute. > >If the caller and callee are on the SAME machine, I get sockets in TIME_WAIT >for 2 minutes each (grrrr) which, if the traffic is heavy enough, eventually >blocks new connections for a few minutes until they clear up. None of the >sockets in TIME_WAIT has output or input pending; both counts show zero. > >This is a serious problem! > >Interestingly enough, I can switch the end of the link which "netstat" thinks >is the "local" end by changing who calls shutdown() first! This is also >unexpected; I would have thought that the caller ALWAYS would be the "local" >side of the connection. > >I've checked and rechecked -- the same code, running across two machines, >does not do this. But when the calling and called code are on the same >system (2.1-STABLE) it does -- repeatedly and reliably. > >Any ideas? While one solution would be to get the code off the same >(common) machine, there are reasons that I don't want to do this in normal >production. But, I need to use TCP (rather than local Unix domain sockets) >because the BACKUP server is on a different system (in the event the first >one crashes). > >Why would this happen when the caller and callee are on the same box, but >not when the traffic actually goes across the network? Has anyone else seen >anything like this in their experience? Due to the structure of this module >(its a drop-in into a stock daemon from another source) I cannot leave the >socket open across requests, and I'd like to understand the reason for >this behavior anyway. Based on what you've said thus far, it's working as it is supposed to. There is a good discussion of the 2MSL wait ("TIME_WAIT") in "TCP/IP Illustrated Volume 1", page 242, by W. Richard Stevens. Depending on how your program handles it's ports/connections, you might be able to use the SO_REUSEADDR socket option to avoid the problem. See page 244. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 16:40:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA20433 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 16:40:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sovcom.kiae.su (sovcom.kiae.su [144.206.136.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA20425 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 16:40:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sovcom.kiae.su id AA23176 (5.65.kiae-1 for hackers@freebsd.org); Sun, 26 May 1996 02:39:59 +0300 Received: by sovcom.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Sun, 26 May 96 02:39:59 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA00400; Sun, 26 May 1996 03:34:56 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: <199605252334.DAA00400@astral.msk.su> Subject: Re: X11R6.1 available... Should we use? To: nnd@itfs.nsk.su (Nickolay N. Dudorov) Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 03:34:55 +0400 (MSD) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Nickolay N. Dudorov" at "May 24, 96 04:15:57 am" From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > There is some support for koi8-r in 3.1.2D, but it looks > strange and incomplete for me - isn't it your baby ? ;-) Some time ago I pass my material to XFree Team and they include it. But now some things becomes obsoleted. I already send updates to them, and still know nothing about result. Lots of work still required there, i.e. fonts conform RFC1489 only in letters area (excluding yo/YO). -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 16:41:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA20478 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 16:41:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sovcom.kiae.su (sovcom.kiae.su [144.206.136.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA20473 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 16:41:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sovcom.kiae.su id AA23164 (5.65.kiae-1 ); Sun, 26 May 1996 02:39:58 +0300 Received: by sovcom.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Sun, 26 May 96 02:39:58 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA00391; Sun, 26 May 1996 03:33:45 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: <199605252333.DAA00391@astral.msk.su> Subject: Re: X11R6.1 available... Should we use? To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 03:33:44 +0400 (MSD) Cc: nnd@itfs.nsk.su, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199605241807.LAA01418@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at "May 24, 96 11:07:30 am" From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm still really curious what KOI-8 buys you that the ISO 8859 > character set does not. Real common practice can't be changed and requires KOI8-R now. It not requires 8859-5 at all, so why bother to support it? Only because it looks "better" from someone point of view? -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 17:33:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA23061 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 17:33:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA23055 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 17:33:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from venus.mcs.com (root@Venus.mcs.com [192.160.127.92]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA02071; Sat, 25 May 1996 19:33:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: by venus.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Sat, 25 May 96 19:33 CDT Message-Id: Subject: Re: Grrr.. is this is a FreeBSD problem (TIME_WAIT again) To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 19:33:39 -0500 (CDT) From: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199605252237.PAA23150@Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at May 25, 96 03:37:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >If the caller and callee are on DIFFERENT machines, I get no stale sockets. > >This is reliable even if there are tens of new connections per minute. > > > >If the caller and callee are on the SAME machine, I get sockets in TIME_WAIT > >for 2 minutes each (grrrr) which, if the traffic is heavy enough, eventually > >blocks new connections for a few minutes until they clear up. None of the > >sockets in TIME_WAIT has output or input pending; both counts show zero. > > > >This is a serious problem! > > Based on what you've said thus far, it's working as it is supposed to. > There is a good discussion of the 2MSL wait ("TIME_WAIT") in "TCP/IP > Illustrated Volume 1", page 242, by W. Richard Stevens. Depending on how > your program handles it's ports/connections, you might be able to use the > SO_REUSEADDR socket option to avoid the problem. See page 244. > > -DG > > David Greenman > Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project I understand the purpose behind the 2MSL wait, but my understanding was that this was imposed for non-cleanly closed connections to prevent a collision (and possibly delivering data to the "wrong" client). The problem is two-fold: 1) The TIME_WAIT sockets are no big deal in and of themselves (I have lots of Mbuf resources on the machine under consideration)..... 2) BUT, once there get to be a dozen or so of these sockets in TIME_WAIT, a NEW connection trying to bind to the server (on the "connect()" call) gets blocked until one of the slots frees up! For a high-volume transaction server this is murderous, as it means that the processing limit is (outstanding TIME_WAIT sockets MAX / 2) transactions per minute. That's awfully conservative.... and a problem. I am being very careful to insure that (1) all the data is out of the pipe before I close it and (2) the stream is correctly closed in both server and client before either calls exit(). I would think that the system could (should?) immediately release the socket under these circumstances to prevent the blocking condition, or that the blocking condition shouldn't exist in the first place. It also doesn't explain why I don't get the same condition when I have the server and client on different machines. I can't use UDP because the data going across the link is encrypted with a stream cipher that is position dependant (thus, a lost or corrupted packet would lead to the cipher getting hosed). The application in question is a custom RADIUS hack which talks to our authentication database. RADIUS spawns a new child (gack!) off for each request, which also plays hell with me -- since these children are asynchronous clients, I cannot use one connection for all due to sequencing problems (each transaction may require multiple packets to be delivered, depending on the particulars of the authentication request, and muxing them into a persistent socket link could easily lead to confusion between sessions). What I don't understand is why a *new* caller, trying to connect FROM a different source port to the same destination (with plenty of "listen" slots open on the server side) would block under these conditions. That is contrary to my expectations and understanding of how the socket layer works. SO_REUSEADDR doesn't do me any good, as I'm not trying to reuse a tuple (again, I am allowing the system to grab a random port on the client side). I would not expect to run into the problem I'm seeing here unless I ran out of available Mbuf resources OR if the "random" port happened to duplicate one which is the TIME_WAIT state (which isn't happening). How do you get around this if you need to have many (dozens or more) TCP connections made to a given client (and dropped) in a short period of time? It sounds to me like the goal is impossible to meet. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | T1 from $600 monthly; speeds to DS-3 available Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1] | 21 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net/ ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's only FULL Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 17:58:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA23989 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 17:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23984 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 17:58:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA22658; Sat, 25 May 1996 18:58:42 -0600 Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 18:58:42 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605260058.SAA22658@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" Cc: davidg@Root.COM, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Grrr.. is this is a FreeBSD problem (TIME_WAIT again) In-Reply-To: References: <199605252237.PAA23150@Root.COM> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>If the caller and callee are on the SAME machine, I get sockets in >>> TIME_WAIT for 2 minutes each .... > > > > Based on what you've said thus far, it's working as it is supposed to. > > There is a good discussion of the 2MSL wait ("TIME_WAIT") in "TCP/IP > > Illustrated Volume 1", page 242, by W. Richard Stevens. > > Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project > > I understand the purpose behind the 2MSL wait, but my understanding > was that this was imposed for non-cleanly closed connections to > prevent a collision (and possibly delivering data to the "wrong" > client). Nope, it's for *all* clients, even for 'successful' connections. It's part of the specification. > The problem is two-fold: > > 1) The TIME_WAIT sockets are no big deal in and of themselves (I have > lots of Mbuf resources on the machine under consideration)..... > > 2) BUT, once there get to be a dozen or so of these sockets in > TIME_WAIT, a NEW connection trying to bind to the server (on the > "connect()" call) gets blocked until one of the slots frees up! Yep. This is expected behavior. > For a high-volume transaction server this is murderous, as it means that the > processing limit is (outstanding TIME_WAIT sockets MAX / 2) transactions per > minute. Tell me about it. I'm dealing with a system right now that the military uses. (Shh, don't tell anyone.) For sending data, it wants to use TCP sockets for 'reliability'. However, someone had a screw loose. To send a 'packet' of data you must do the following: 1) socket/connect 2) write out the data to the socket 3) close the socket In this manner, they are guaranteeing (not really, but it's a pretty good bet) that *all* the data will be sent in one shot *AND* that if you have problems sending data you will know about it when the sockets close. The problems are many - It assumes slow data rates, or large packets. For the *original* purpose of the system, the former is true. However, the military wants to use it for some of the new stuff we're developing for them. We need to send out 14 packets/sec, so I know have to play tricks with pre-buffering up data in order to get around this and build *big* packets, and it's non-trivial. - It assumes that the data is transferred if the close succeeds. This is dependent on the how the OS handles data. You can play tricks with the sockets to help, but there is no guarantee that the data *actually* got to the other side even if the close succeeds. - It assumes that a single write/read will give handle an entire packet. Again, depending on the sending/receiving OS, the lower layers may give you a partial packet read, *especially* if the data is transferred over a long-haul line. So, on my end I'm forced to set SOCK_REUSEADDR because I *must* have multiple connections going to the remote site within the 2-minute time period, but the remote site isn't setup that way. In any case, I'm doing everything *exactly* as spec'd, including using shutdown() on the sockets, but the TCP/IP protocol says the 2-minute time-out exists on *all* stream sockets unless SO_REUSEADDR is set. > I am being very careful to insure that (1) all the data is out of the pipe > before I close it and (2) the stream is correctly closed in both server and > client before either calls exit(). I would think that the system could > (should?) immediately release the socket under these circumstances to > prevent the blocking condition, or that the blocking condition shouldn't > exist in the first place. It also doesn't explain why I don't get the same > condition when I have the server and client on different machines. ??? I see it connecting combinations of FreeBSD, SCO, SunOS, and HP/UX machines. > I can't use UDP because the data going across the link is encrypted with a > stream cipher that is position dependant (thus, a lost or corrupted packet > would lead to the cipher getting hosed). Unless you want to do the 'reliability' protocol by yourself. C'mon, doing a sliding windows is something *everyone* should do. *grin* > SO_REUSEADDR doesn't do me any good, as I'm not trying to reuse a tuple > (again, I am allowing the system to grab a random port on the client > side). But the client is still 'connecting' to the same port on the remote side, and thus *might* get data on that port back from the remote site. (Why it does this for 'successful' sockets is probably explained in Steven's book) > How do you get around this if you need to have many (dozens or more) TCP > connections made to a given client (and dropped) in a short period of time? > > It sounds to me like the goal is impossible to meet. int on = 1; /* Set it so we can re-use the local/remote port again quickly */ setsockopt(sock, SOL_SOCKET, SO_REUSEADDR, (char *)&on, sizeof on); Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 18:24:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA24852 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 18:24:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (root@sasami.jurai.net [206.151.208.162]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA24836; Sat, 25 May 1996 18:24:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA19464; Sat, 25 May 1996 20:25:06 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 20:25:05 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" X-Sender: winter@sasami To: Dima Ruban cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Adduser program in C In-Reply-To: <199605250814.BAA16824@freefall.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 25 May 1996, Dima Ruban wrote: > First: this is not small tool. With diskspace at the price it is, I don't think size is an issue in most cases. > Second: this is slow tool. The issue that started this discussion was the 'adduser' perl script. I sure don't need a 'fast' program to do this job. I'm not in need of an adduser program that can add 1000 users in 30 seconds. I don't need to rebuild my virtual domain mail tables in a half second. In most cases perl is a viable solution to many of my problems. > Third: this is not standard unix tool. All well. > > specific task, and combine them to make something better. > > Perl is one of those tools. > I can't agree. You're entitled to your opinion, but many people here have PROVED the above statement to be the truth. I'm not sure how you can deny it just because you think its nasty. (hey, its nasty. I'll admit that) I'd be silly to try to write some of the stuff I'm using in C. I change it too much or add new stuff to it too often. Perl isn't the solution to every problem, but it has its place. If the adduser program would have been written in C, I would have trashed it and written one in Perl. As it is, I just had to change a few things and it worked for what I needed to do. I plan on writing my own, but I don't have to deal with it now, as it was easy to kludge the old one. Have a good one. | Matthew N. Dodd | winter@jurai.net | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | | Technical Manager | mdodd@intersurf.net | http://www.intersurf.net | | InterSurf Online | "Welcome to the net Sir, would you like a handbasket?"| From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 19:09:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA26285 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 19:09:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haven.uchicago.edu (root@haven.uchicago.edu [128.135.12.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA26278; Sat, 25 May 1996 19:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from woodlawn.uchicago.edu (root@woodlawn.uchicago.edu [128.135.12.9]) by haven.uchicago.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA07363; Sat, 25 May 1996 21:09:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from woodlawn.uchicago.edu (csdayton@localhost.uchicago.edu [127.0.0.1]) by woodlawn.uchicago.edu (8.7.1/8.7.2) with ESMTP id VAA23555; Sat, 25 May 1996 21:10:02 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199605260210.VAA23555@woodlawn.uchicago.edu> In-reply-to: "Matthew N. Dodd"'s message of Sat, 25 May 1996 20:25:05 -0500 (CDT) To: "Matthew N. Dodd" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, Dima Ruban Subject: Re: Adduser program in C Reply-To: csdayton@midway.uchicago.edu References: Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 21:10:01 CDT From: Soren Dayton Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Sat, 25 May 1996, Dima Ruban wrote: > > First: this is not small tool. > > With diskspace at the price it is, I don't think size is an issue in most > cases. i do not think that this is where the hit is, but I just might be wrong. I think the problem is that perl does no real memory management and grows and grows and grows and grows and grows. Soren yet another member of the anti perl/C++ school of thought. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 19:43:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA27931 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 19:43:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zen.nash.org (nash.pr.mcs.net [204.95.47.72]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA27910 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 19:42:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from alex@localhost) by zen.nash.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id VAA00267; Sat, 25 May 1996 21:42:11 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 21:42:11 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199605260242.VAA00267@zen.nash.org> From: Alex Nash To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: davidg@root.com Subject: Grrr.. is this is a FreeBSD problem (TIME_WAIT again) Reply-to: nash@mcs.com Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I understand the purpose behind the 2MSL wait, but my understanding was that > this was imposed for non-cleanly closed connections to prevent a collision > (and possibly delivering data to the "wrong" client). I won't even attempt to rewrite the words of Stevens, so here they are straight from page 243 of TCP/IP Illustrated Vol 1: Given the MSL value for an implementation, the rule is: when TCP performs an active close, and sends the final ACK, that connection must stay in the TIME_WAIT state for twice the MSL. This lets TCP resend the final ACK in case this ACK is lost (in which case the other end will time out and retransmit the final FIN). Of course this doesn't explain why you don't see the problem across multiple machines. Are you sure that neither end is in TIME_WAIT? Alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 20:38:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA00167 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 20:38:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dima@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA00157; Sat, 25 May 1996 20:38:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605260338.UAA00157@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Adduser program in C To: winter@jurai.net (Matthew N. Dodd) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 20:38:21 -0700 (PDT) Cc: dima@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Matthew N. Dodd" at May 25, 96 08:25:05 pm From: dima@FreeBSD.org (Dima Ruban) X-Class: Fast Organization: HackerDome X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Matthew N. Dodd writes: > > On Sat, 25 May 1996, Dima Ruban wrote: > > First: this is not small tool. > > With diskspace at the price it is, I don't think size is an issue in most > cases. What about RAM? > > Second: this is slow tool. > > The issue that started this discussion was the 'adduser' perl script. > I sure don't need a 'fast' program to do this job. I'm not in need of an > adduser program that can add 1000 users in 30 seconds. I don't need to > rebuild my virtual domain mail tables in a half second. In most cases > perl is a viable solution to many of my problems. I didn't say anything about this particular case with adduser program. But I couldn't stay away, when somebody (don't remember his name) said that perl is perfect replacement for shell/awk/sed scripts. The idea of his entire letter was "Perl rules! I'd love to see all unix shell/sed/awk scripts rewritten in perl, because perl is perfect!" > > Third: this is not standard unix tool. > > All well. > > > > specific task, and combine them to make something better. > > > Perl is one of those tools. > > I can't agree. > > You're entitled to your opinion, but many people here have PROVED the > above statement to be the truth. I'm not sure how you can deny it just > because you think its nasty. (hey, its nasty. I'll admit that) I think, I did it in my previouse letter. I didn't/don't/won't tell that perl is useless. All I did - I said, that --- cut here --- > > First: this is not small tool. > > Second: this is slow tool. > > Third: this is not standard unix tool. --- cut here --- > I'd be silly to try to write some of the stuff I'm using in C. I change > it too much or add new stuff to it too often. Perl isn't the solution to > every problem, but it has its place. > > If the adduser program would have been written in C, I would have trashed > it and written one in Perl. As it is, I just had to change a few things > and it worked for what I needed to do. I plan on writing my own, but I > don't have to deal with it now, as it was easy to kludge the old one. My point is: I don't have anything against writing on perl program/script which I won't run more often than once per hour > Have a good one. I certainly will. > | Matthew N. Dodd | winter@jurai.net | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | > | Technical Manager | mdodd@intersurf.net | http://www.intersurf.net | > | InterSurf Online | "Welcome to the net Sir, would you like a handbasket?"| > > -- dima From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 20:39:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA00253 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 20:39:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dima@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA00244; Sat, 25 May 1996 20:39:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605260339.UAA00244@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Adduser program in C To: csdayton@midway.uchicago.edu Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 20:39:21 -0700 (PDT) Cc: winter@jurai.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, dima@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199605260210.VAA23555@woodlawn.uchicago.edu> from "Soren Dayton" at May 25, 96 09:10:01 pm From: dima@FreeBSD.org (Dima Ruban) X-Class: Fast Organization: HackerDome X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Soren Dayton writes: > > > > On Sat, 25 May 1996, Dima Ruban wrote: > > > First: this is not small tool. > > > > With diskspace at the price it is, I don't think size is an issue in most > > cases. > > i do not think that this is where the hit is, but I just might be wrong. > I think the problem is that perl does no real memory management and > grows and grows and grows and grows and grows. exactly what I meant, when I said "this is not a small tool" > > > Soren > yet another member of the anti perl/C++ school of thought. > -- dima From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 21:02:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA01418 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 21:02:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (root@sasami.jurai.net [206.151.208.162]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA01408 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 21:02:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA25426; Sat, 25 May 1996 23:02:51 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 23:02:51 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" X-Sender: winter@sasami To: Soren Dayton cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Adduser program in C In-Reply-To: <199605260210.VAA23555@woodlawn.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 25 May 1996, Soren Dayton wrote: > i do not think that this is where the hit is, but I just might be wrong. > I think the problem is that perl does no real memory management and > grows and grows and grows and grows and grows. I know some people that have an accounting package they wrote in perl that has a 50+ meg footprint. Clearly this is a bit of a problem, but it was easier for them to buy more memory than to rewrite it. I'm not saying that perl doesn't have problems, but in most cases, the tasks that you would consider using perl to solve won't be affected by any of the problems listed. (in most cases) Have a good one. | Matthew N. Dodd | winter@jurai.net | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | | Technical Manager | mdodd@intersurf.net | http://www.intersurf.net | | InterSurf Online | "Welcome to the net Sir, would you like a handbasket?"| From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 21:03:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA01469 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 21:03:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gateway.net.hk (john@gateway.hk.linkage.net [202.76.7.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA01464 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 21:03:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from john@localhost) by gateway.net.hk (8.7.4/8.7.3) id MAA12937; Sun, 26 May 1996 12:01:52 +0800 (HKT) Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 12:01:51 +0800 (HKT) From: John Beukema To: Gary Aitken cc: Warner Losh , Sean Eric Fagan , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: stty -- not In-Reply-To: <31A40C51.4BBF@ics.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I wish someone would sort this out. I remember when I first installed FBSD I spent 2 days trying to get a simnple epson printer to work. printcap had 50 varities of high speed line printer entries, teletypes and devices that have not existed for years but no obvious way to hook up the printers that make up 99% of the population out there. After 16 to 20 hours of reading man pages and questions I had to write my own filter in c to put in cr's. Almost enough to turn newbies back to windoze. The default configuration should have a setup for a pc printer and an HPlj3 on both lpt0 and ttyd1, perhaps commented out. This space unintentionally left unblank jbeukema On Thu, 23 May 1996, Gary Aitken wrote: > > I'm not sure what the right and proper way to do this is, but I have a > > printcap entry: > ... > > where addcr does the following: > > > > #!/bin/sh > > sed -e 's/$/^M/' > > echo ^L > > > > (the two character sequences above ^M, etc are really the actual > > control characters). > > > > I then print lpr -Plc xxx to print something that isn't raw bits for > > my printer. The ps entry is so I can print postscript files directly > > on my non-postscript printer with the aid of gs. I lost my psfilt > > program in the last great disk crash, but it was a simple hack of > > gsbj. Since I use aladdin gs, I get free pdf printing too :-). > > > > A kludge I know, but it even worked when I had the LA-50 hooked up to > > the machine, and that was a serial printer. I just let lpd open the > > LA-50 in raw mode and dealt with the problem elsewhere. > > > > Pointers to the right way to do this would be accepted joyfully. > > I thought of doing that as well, but since the dang thing is *supposed* > to work by tweaking the opost | onlcr bits, that seemed like the > right way to do it. I figured since those bits have been in there > working for years they couldn't possibly be broken (I may still be > doing something wrong... At this point I can kludge it to work > using stty or a filter; I guess it's time for some debugging. > > -- > Gary Aitken garya@ics.com (business) > garya@dreamchaser.org (personal) > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 21:33:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA03054 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 21:33:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (root@sasami.jurai.net [206.151.208.162]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA03049; Sat, 25 May 1996 21:33:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA26597; Sat, 25 May 1996 23:33:26 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 23:33:26 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" X-Sender: winter@sasami To: Dima Ruban cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Adduser program in C In-Reply-To: <199605260338.UAA00157@freefall.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 25 May 1996, Dima Ruban wrote: > > With diskspace at the price it is, I don't think size is an issue in most > > cases. > What about RAM? I've got virtual memory. Whats the problem? If it becomes necessary to rewrite the thing to be efficient, I'm sure that it will be. In most cases, these problems won't be an issue. You aren't going to write an OS in perl, or a DBMS, but an adduser script or other small tasks can be solved with Perl quite nicely. > I didn't say anything about this particular case with adduser program. > But I couldn't stay away, when somebody (don't remember his name) > said that perl is perfect replacement for shell/awk/sed scripts. > The idea of his entire letter was "Perl rules! I'd love to see all > unix shell/sed/awk scripts rewritten in perl, because perl is perfect!" This is true. I'm all for using the proper tools for a task, and if that is perl, then great. Since perl embodies a good deal of the functionality of awk/sed/shell then its really a close call as to which is the correct solution. I've got shell scripts working along with perl do do some jobs. > My point is: I don't have anything against writing on perl > program/script which I won't run more often than once per hour Say, lets try out Python next! I hear thats the greatest thing since sliced bread! (Actually, the other sysadmin here suggested TK and Python for an adduser program that he wanted to write. We'll see. *grin*) Have a good one. | Matthew N. Dodd | winter@jurai.net | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | | Technical Manager | mdodd@intersurf.net | http://www.intersurf.net | | InterSurf Online | "Welcome to the net Sir, would you like a handbasket?"| From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 21:40:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA03449 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 21:40:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nightmare.dreamchaser.org ([207.40.47.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA03444 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 21:40:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mofo (mofo.dreamchaser.org [206.230.42.91]) by nightmare.dreamchaser.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA17595; Sat, 25 May 1996 22:39:44 -0600 Message-ID: <31A7E098.78C@ics.com> Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 22:39:52 -0600 From: Gary Aitken Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b3 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4c) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Beukema CC: Sean Eric Fagan , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: stty -- not References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John Beukema wrote: > > I wish someone would sort this out. I remember when I first installed > FBSD I spent 2 days trying to get a simnple epson printer to work. > printcap had 50 varities of high speed line printer entries, teletypes > and devices that have not existed for years but no obvious way to hook up > the printers that make up 99% of the population out there. After 16 to > 20 hours of reading man pages and questions I had to write my own filter > in c to put in cr's. Almost enough to turn newbies back to windoze. > The default configuration should have a setup for a pc printer and an > HPlj3 on both lpt0 and ttyd1, perhaps commented out. I think Sean's fixes in 2.2 will solve most of the problems, but it would be nice to have most common printers covered by default entries. Does it make sense to have people submit their current printcap entries to start a collection? I believe 2.1 comes with a more or less empty printcap. -- Gary Aitken garya@ics.com (business) garya@dreamchaser.org (personal) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 22:04:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA04065 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 22:04:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA04060; Sat, 25 May 1996 22:04:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA22993; Sat, 25 May 1996 23:03:59 -0600 Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 23:03:59 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199605260503.XAA22993@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: John Capo Cc: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), peter@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: DNS question In-Reply-To: <199605210614.CAA22689@irbs.irbs.com> References: <199605200307.VAA04583@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199605210614.CAA22689@irbs.irbs.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just got back from a business trip, and before I head out on the next one I decided to look at this. > > > gateway:/etc/namedb/new # host 206.127.76.97 > > Host not found, try again. > > > > I'll bet you have some log messages that look sort of like this: > > host: gethostby*.gethostanswer: asked for "131.75.182.199.in-addr.arpa", \ > got "131.128.75.182.199.in-addr.arpa" Which I do. > The libc resolver is broken for non-terminal in-addr lookups. This change is already in -current, so I'd like to propose that it be brought into -stable. Peter was the one who did all this BIND work, so he'd be the one most likely to yay/nay the work. I'm willing to bring in the relevant changes if he doesn't have time, but before I go stepping on his toes I'm letting him know that I'm interested. Peter, do you mind me bringing in the changes to -stable? I need them for my router-box in order to have sub-netted class C reverse PTR work. Thanks! Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 22:55:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA07746 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 22:55:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA07735; Sat, 25 May 1996 22:55:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA18630; Sat, 25 May 1996 22:54:55 -0700 (PDT) To: csdayton@midway.uchicago.edu cc: "Matthew N. Dodd" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, Dima Ruban Subject: Re: Adduser program in C In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 May 1996 21:10:01 CDT." <199605260210.VAA23555@woodlawn.uchicago.edu> Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 22:54:55 -0700 Message-ID: <18628.833090095@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Yo, everybody! :-) I don't really care _what_ language it's written in just so long as: 1. It supports a reasonable number of options and home directory organization schemes. For a synopsis of my views on this, search the mailing list archives for "adduser" - I actually spec'd this out awhile back in a mail message to this list. 2. Be designed to be callable by front-ends written in anything from Tk to C. By "callable" I simply mean that adduser(1) should be drivable completely by command-line arguments, only prompting the user for information when it has not been provided thusly. 3. That language be a standard part of the system so we don't need to bring in something like prolog just to get adduser to compile. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 25 23:16:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA08669 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 May 1996 23:16:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (root@nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA08664 for ; Sat, 25 May 1996 23:16:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from coredump@localhost) by onyx.nervosa.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA07162; Sat, 25 May 1996 23:16:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 23:16:17 -0700 (PDT) From: "Chris J. Layne" To: Joerg Wunsch cc: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: unix + asm In-Reply-To: <199605252027.WAA27031@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 25 May 1996, J Wunsch wrote: > > I was wondering where I could find info (preferably the web) on > > programming Assembly on Unix systems, preferrably FreeBSD on the 80x86 > > arch. Any info would be appreciated. > > Of course, all this raises the question: why do you wanna do this? > > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Uhh, so I can try ASM on my unix machine, is their something wrong with that? =) I just was curious as to what the diffs were between intel asm and at&t asm. == Chris Layne ======================================== Nervosa Computing == == coredump@nervosa.com ================ http://www.nervosa.com/~coredump ==