From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jun 21 15:00:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08292 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:00:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhost1.u.washington.edu (mailhost1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA08169; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:00:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmorrisn@u.washington.edu) Received: from don (cs237-6.student.washington.edu [140.142.173.127]) by mailhost1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.11) with SMTP id PAA26137; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:00:01 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980621150232.008116d0@dmorrisn.deskmail.washington.edu> X-Sender: dmorrisn@dmorrisn.deskmail.washington.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:02:32 -0700 To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: don morrison Subject: I finally got my University's bookstore to carry FreeBSD stuff!! 8^P Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The power of those little comment-cards is amazing. The University of Washington Bookstore had never carried FreeBSD related stuff (not counting a few 4.4BSD related things) until today because a couple weeks ago I took 5 minutes to fill out one of those little comment cards recommending Greg Lehey's "The Complete FreeBSD" (which I hadn't actually read *grin*), and lo and behold as I walked through the UN*X section of the bookstore today there were four copies sitting right there where they should have always been along with four sets of the Walnut Creek 2.2.6 release cd's!!! =) Well, not quite were they should have been, but I quickly rectified the situation by moving them to impulse-buy-eye-level right above the redhat 5.1 boxes (swapping them with linux development books which were wasting this prime selling space and tossed those down next to the UNIX Dummies books.:) Anyone going to the U, come buy these right now!! ;-) I just wish I had filled one of those things out before; I had forgotten how susceptible bookstores were to customer feedback. The Barnes and Noble down the hill here in our U district will order any book that you ask for that's not in stock and call you when it's there with no obligation to buy. So, please, everybody, go heckle your nearest bookstore!! ;) Don To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jun 21 18:26:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA14541 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 18:26:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhost2.u.washington.edu (mailhost2.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA14494 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 18:25:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmorrisn@u.washington.edu) Received: from don (cs237-14.student.washington.edu [140.142.173.135]) by mailhost2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.11) with SMTP id SAA10675; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 18:25:38 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980621182810.00810540@dmorrisn.deskmail.washington.edu> X-Sender: dmorrisn@dmorrisn.deskmail.washington.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 18:28:10 -0700 To: "Jack Velte" , From: don morrison Subject: Re: I finally got my University's bookstore to carry FreeBSD stuff!! 8^P In-Reply-To: <01bd9d76$8fe9ae00$2f92d9cf@jackv255.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >you might relate this story to sales@cdrom.com. Well...Sales isn't doing their job if they haven't already tried vigorously to get the stuff into University stores IMHO. Besides, what are they going to do, send people around the country writing comment cards? :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jun 21 20:44:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA03652 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:44:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason01.u.washington.edu (root@jason01.u.washington.edu [140.142.70.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA03591 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:43:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul4.u.washington.edu (root@saul4.u.washington.edu [140.142.83.2]) by jason01.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id UAA13098; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:43:56 -0700 Received: from s8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.04) with SMTP id UAA04644; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:43:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:33:33 +0000 (GMT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu To: don morrison cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: I finally got my University's bookstore to carry FreeBSD stuff!! 8^P In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980621150232.008116d0@dmorrisn.deskmail.washington.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 21 Jun 1998, don morrison wrote: > >The power of those little comment-cards is amazing. The University of >Washington Bookstore had never carried FreeBSD related stuff (not counting I will say that I was quite surprised to turn the corner at the bookstore to see FreeBSD in the midst of all the Linux stuff. Wooohooo! Of course, I have to wait until 3.0 hits the shelf, but I am glad I will have a chance to buy it at the store just up the Ave. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ | 206-633-5994 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jun 21 21:00:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA05661 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:00:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhost2.u.washington.edu (mailhost2.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA05652 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:00:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmorrisn@u.washington.edu) Received: from don (cs237-14.student.washington.edu [140.142.173.135]) by mailhost2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.11) with SMTP id VAA12090; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:00:21 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980621210254.00873360@dmorrisn.deskmail.washington.edu> X-Sender: dmorrisn@dmorrisn.deskmail.washington.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:02:54 -0700 To: "Jason C. Wells" From: don morrison Subject: Re: I finally got my University's bookstore to carry FreeBSD stuff!! 8^P Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980621150232.008116d0@dmorrisn.deskmail.washington.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >I will say that I was quite surprised to turn the corner at the bookstore >to see FreeBSD in the midst of all the Linux stuff. > >Wooohooo! > What was even cooler was that I got the chance to turn a would-be linuxer to FreeBSD since the book was right there! Nipped that one in the bud. :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jun 22 02:53:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA01640 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 02:53:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (geos01.oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com [134.32.44.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA01543; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 02:52:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com) Received: from sunw131.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (sunw131 [134.32.45.97]) by oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA08957 ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:52:10 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by sunw131.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA05724; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:52:09 +0200 To: don morrison Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: I finally got my University's bookstore to carry FreeBSD stuff!! 8^P References: <3.0.5.32.19980621150232.008116d0@dmorrisn.deskmail.washington.edu> Organization: Schlumberger Geco-Prakla X-Disclaimer: I speak only for myself. From: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 22 Jun 1998 11:52:08 +0200 In-Reply-To: don morrison's message of Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:02:32 -0700 Message-ID: Lines: 16 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG don morrison writes: > The power of those little comment-cards is amazing. The University of > Washington Bookstore had never carried FreeBSD related stuff (not counting > a few 4.4BSD related things) until today because a couple weeks ago I took > 5 minutes to fill out one of those little comment cards recommending Greg > Lehey's "The Complete FreeBSD" (which I hadn't actually read *grin*), and Hmmm, you're giving me ideas. I have been (successfully) lobbying Akademika (the University bookstore in Oslo, Norway) for quite some time now, but I just realized that I have never thought of ordering FreeBSD books for the CS department library. They'll order at least a copy of any book any student or staff member asks for, so c'mon guys, make me a list :) -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jun 22 07:41:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA10681 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 07:41:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhost1.u.washington.edu (mailhost1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA10654; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 07:41:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmorrisn@u.washington.edu) Received: from don (cs237-15.student.washington.edu [140.142.173.136]) by mailhost1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.11) with SMTP id HAA08003; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 07:41:29 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980622074400.008756e0@dmorrisn.deskmail.washington.edu> X-Sender: dmorrisn@dmorrisn.deskmail.washington.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 07:44:00 -0700 To: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) From: don morrison Subject: Re: I finally got my University's bookstore to carry FreeBSD stuff!! 8^P Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980621150232.008116d0@dmorrisn.deskmail.washington.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Hmmm, you're giving me ideas. I have been (successfully) lobbying >Akademika (the University bookstore in Oslo, Norway) for quite some >time now, but I just realized that I have never thought of ordering >FreeBSD books for the CS department library. They'll order at least a >copy of any book any student or staff member asks for, so c'mon guys, >make me a list :) Good idea. The departmental libraries here makes me go get a book at an affiliate library if they have the specific book I want though...If none of them have it, you can ask for it at each library, and their administrations will each get moving on it separately, and you'll end up with like 15 copies. ;) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jun 22 12:02:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29703 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 12:02:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA29691 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 12:02:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA23589; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 12:02:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (Dag-Erling Coidan Sm rgrav) cc: don morrison , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: I finally got my University's bookstore to carry FreeBSD stuff!! 8^P In-reply-to: Your message of "22 Jun 1998 11:52:08 +0200." Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 12:02:47 -0700 Message-ID: <23584.898542167@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [Directed just to -advocacy; cross-posting to -chat is evil. :)] > time now, but I just realized that I have never thought of ordering > FreeBSD books for the CS department library. They'll order at least a > copy of any book any student or staff member asks for, so c'mon guys, > make me a list :) You don't need us to make you a list - there's already a really good list of books like this in the bibliography section of the handbook. I'd start with the books on internals, like Kirk's book, and, of course, Greg's book as the sole FreeBSD book currently being published in english. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jun 22 15:51:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13261 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:51:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA13230; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:51:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@obie.softweyr.com) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA08744; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:51:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes) From: Wes Peters Message-Id: <199806222251.QAA08744@obie.softweyr.com> Subject: Anyone here know "FreeGate"? To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:51:28 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Has anyone around here seen or heard of FreeGate? It is an integrated internet connection point, and claims to be based on "BSD enhanced for security." Is this FreeBSD based? Cane we get them added to our vendors lists? Sick'em girls and boys! -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jun 22 16:22:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA19471 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:22:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mooseriver.com (dynamic21.pm04.sf3d.best.com [209.24.234.213]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA19358; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:21:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id QAA22298; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:21:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19980622162155.A22278@mooseriver.com> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:21:55 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: Wes Peters , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anyone here know "FreeGate"? Reply-To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com References: <199806222251.QAA08744@obie.softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199806222251.QAA08744@obie.softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Mon, Jun 22, 1998 at 04:51:28PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jun 22, 1998 at 04:51:28PM -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > Has anyone around here seen or heard of FreeGate? It is an integrated > internet connection point, and claims to be based on "BSD enhanced for > security." Is this FreeBSD based? Cane we get them added to our > vendors lists? > > Sick'em girls and boys! > I used to work for FreeGate. They are an "Internet in a box" mini-server, very much like Whistle. Their OS is FreeBSD that has been tweaked to run their hardware and yes they have done a lot to the OS concerning security. It should be on the vendor list. http://www.freegate.com Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.7 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jun 22 17:22:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA01395 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:22:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA01381 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:22:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@aeiusrI-28.aei.ca [206.186.205.178]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA14139 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:22:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <358EF4E6.6776E8C@aei.ca> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:20:54 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/talkback/talkback_72969.html Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dont know if anyone have seen that one http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/talkback/talkback_72969.html Maybe add it in the press part of the freebsd.org web site? Malartre -- -------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD-2.2.6 -------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jun 22 17:26:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA01853 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:26:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA01805 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:26:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@aeiusrI-28.aei.ca [206.186.205.178]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA14510 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:25:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <358EF5BC.9FF68F77@aei.ca> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:24:28 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/talkback/talkback_72969.html Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dont know if anyone have seen that one http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/talkback/talkback_72969.html Maybe add it in the press part of the freebsd.org web site? Also interesting about hotmail & FreeBSD: http://www.kirch.net/unix-nt/hotmail.html Hotmail in the galery section? Malartre -- -------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD-2.2.6 -------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jun 22 19:12:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA03252 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:12:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA03243 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:12:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA19868 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:08:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806230208.TAA19868@implode.root.com> To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: fwd: die Linux die! From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:08:48 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ------- Forwarded Message Return-Path: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.18]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA19613 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:52:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA02828; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:57:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-questions) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (bulk_mailer v1.6); Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:47:28 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00743 for freebsd-questions-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:47:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shaman.lycaeum.org (shaman.lycaeum.org [207.66.171.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA00684 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:46:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from edmond@shaman.lycaeum.org) Received: from localhost (edmond@localhost) by shaman.lycaeum.org (Partyon/dude!) with SMTP id OAA03258 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:46:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:46:48 -0700 (PDT) From: "Andrew N. Edmond (Nero)" To: questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: die Linux die! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG After, now, several years of frustration of being put into situation where I am unwillingly forced to use Linux on occasion, I have notified all the people I contract for that I refuse to use that crap anymore. I'm totally fed up with it. I've been spoiled by FreeBSD for years now, and I just cannot conceive that people actually want to run that damn little tinkertoy people are calling an operating system. So, I find myself on the Linux vs. other FreeOS battlelines when I tell people this, and I think I'm a little underprepared... :) For those with some level of authority and decision in the workplace, has someone prepared "an argument for FreeBSD", or "an argument on why Linux is a horrible operating system"? I really enjoyed: http://kirch.net/unix-nt.html Which I have used numerous times to convince the upper level management to stray from NT and into the heaven of unixdom. But I have not seen any "Linux Haters Bible" - does any such thing exist? Andy +-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ || Andrew N. Edmond | Lycaeum Director | Nymserver Administrator || || edmond@lycaeum.org | http://www.lycaeum.org/ | http://www.nymserver.com/ || >---------------------+-------------------------+----------------------------< || Children of a future age, reading this indignant page, know that in a || || former time, a path to love was thought a crime - William Blake || +-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message ------- End of Forwarded Message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jun 22 19:51:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA09154 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:51:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA09116 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:51:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA25215; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:51:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: dg@root.com cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, edmond@shaman.lycaeum.org Subject: Re: fwd: die Linux die! In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:08:48 PDT." <199806230208.TAA19868@implode.root.com> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:51:44 -0700 Message-ID: <25210.898570304@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > For those with some level of authority and decision in the workplace, has > someone prepared "an argument for FreeBSD", or "an argument on why Linux > is a horrible operating system"? I really enjoyed: I don't think anyone has taken quite that tack as it would seem an unnecessarily high lightning rod to want to grab ahold of, there being so many less aggressive ways of explaining why you _prefer_ FreeBSD. See, nonetheless, this URL: http://www.futuresouth.com/~fullermd/freebsd/bsdvlin.html It's reasonably balanced given what it's trying to do. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jun 22 20:27:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA14547 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:27:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA14538 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:26:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@shell.futuresouth.com) Received: (from fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA03551; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 22:26:46 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980622222646.61310@futuresouth.com> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 22:26:46 -0500 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: dg@root.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, edmond@shaman.lycaeum.org Subject: Re: fwd: die Linux die! References: <199806230208.TAA19868@implode.root.com> <25210.898570304@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <25210.898570304@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Mon, Jun 22, 1998 at 07:51:44PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jun 22, 1998 at 07:51:44PM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard woke me up to tell me: > > For those with some level of authority and decision in the workplace, has > > someone prepared "an argument for FreeBSD", or "an argument on why Linux > > is a horrible operating system"? I really enjoyed: > > I don't think anyone has taken quite that tack as it would seem an > unnecessarily high lightning rod to want to grab ahold of, there being > so many less aggressive ways of explaining why you _prefer_ FreeBSD. > See, nonetheless, this URL: > http://www.futuresouth.com/~fullermd/freebsd/bsdvlin.html > It's reasonably balanced given what it's trying to do. He... You beat me to it by about 5 minutes ;) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jun 23 03:48:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA16025 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 03:48:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from junior.apk.net (stuart@junior.apk.net [207.54.158.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA15974 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 03:47:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stuart@junior.apk.net) Received: from localhost (stuart@localhost) by junior.apk.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA25550; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 06:47:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 06:47:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Stuart Krivis To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fwd: die Linux die! In-Reply-To: <25210.898570304@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > For those with some level of authority and decision in the workplace, has > > someone prepared "an argument for FreeBSD", or "an argument on why Linux > > is a horrible operating system"? I really enjoyed: > > I don't think anyone has taken quite that tack as it would seem an > unnecessarily high lightning rod to want to grab ahold of, there being > so many less aggressive ways of explaining why you _prefer_ FreeBSD. Exactly. Some people _prefer_ one or the other. I think they're both quite good. And I'd hate to be forced to choose between them. I am running FreeBSD here, but I used Linux for a long time and still have 2 Linux machines at work. (And will probably add a third since Linux for the Alpha seems to be more polished than NetBSD for the Alpha.) They're more alike than they are different. I see both in this way: I use Linux or FreeBSD because I enjoy doing so. And I think I like using both. I use NT because I have to. (There are some apps that only run on Windows right now.) Both FreeBSD and Linux are very good, very capable OSes. Why limit yourself, or show your ignorance, by saying that one is far superior to the other? They're both wonderful. -- Stuart Krivis stuart@krivis.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jun 23 10:23:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA25555 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:23:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from transbay.net (synergy.transbay.net [207.105.6.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA25534 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:22:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bh@transbay.net) Received: from localhost (bh@localhost) by transbay.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA14879 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:27:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:27:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Brandon Huey To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Sun's Open Source Survey Message-ID: X-Copyright: (C)1998 Brandon Huey; Forwarding prohibited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Check out: http://www.sun.com/sunworldonline/swol-06-1998/swol-06-readersurvey.html?062298i To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jun 24 06:31:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA03424 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 06:31:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from exchangeserver.mpainc.com ([198.246.145.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA03332 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 06:30:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from RickSiple@mpainc.com) Received: by EXCHANGESERVER with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:30:36 -0400 Message-ID: <11FFBC5E23EDD111AF8D006008CEB82D014D80@EXCHANGESERVER> From: Rick Siple To: "Advocacy Mailing List (E-mail)" Subject: Packet Engines Gigabit Ethernet Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:29:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG FYI, I found news article today about a press release from Packet Engines, Inc. The press release blathers on about certification from Microsoft and Novell, but further down in the article it mentions driver support for FreeBSD. Their web pages list driver support as 'third-party' though. I found not reference to Packet Engines in any of the vendor pages at http://www.freebsd.org. Maybe they should be added? Article: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/980624/packet_eng_1.html Home Page: http://www.packetengines.com P.S.: I also found a product form Syntunix (http://www.syntunix.com) that performs password synchronization between FreeBSD (and others) and NT, which I see no reference for on the Software Vendors page. Please forgive me if I missed some discussion as I was not previously subscribed to the advocacy list. __________ Rick Siple RickSiple@MPAInc.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jun 24 13:47:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA24816 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:47:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA24714 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:47:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id QAA12390; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:40:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:46:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: Rick Siple cc: "Advocacy Mailing List (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Packet Engines Gigabit Ethernet In-Reply-To: <11FFBC5E23EDD111AF8D006008CEB82D014D80@EXCHANGESERVER> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just called their sales rep for my location to find out who this "thrid party" is. Ill pass it along as soon as I find out. It's to bad we dont have a logo people can use to advertise they have FreeBSD drivers. Something like FreeBSD certified or the like. Course that may be to complicated. Since there is no certification board except the, "It works for me!" board. :-) Chris -- "Linux... The choice of a GNUtered generation." ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jun 24 23:35:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA04029 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 23:35:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA04014 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 23:35:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id CAA12334 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 02:28:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 02:35:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: MS's terra database has fallen over and cant get up! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,23542,00.html?st.ne.fd.mdh bwhaha I couldnt resist posting this. It doesnt really belong here but it was just to funny not to. MS claimed it was trying to prove to the world that NT and its SQL database was a solid, heavy load, workhorse. And the crap fell over and cant get up. They have 6 servers TRYING to handle a measly 8 million hits a day and it cant do it :) Quick someone call 911! I cant believe people can peddle this stuff and charge for it :) Chris -- "Linux... The choice of a GNUtered generation." ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jun 25 05:28:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA26692 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 05:28:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from m1.gdr.net.au (root@dub025.pronet.net.au [203.34.103.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA26551 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 05:28:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@pronet.net.au) Received: from right.gdr.net.au (funguys@right.gdr.net.au [192.168.0.2]) by m1.gdr.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA13607 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:23:42 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199806250123.LAA13607@m1.gdr.net.au> X-Sender: right@m1.gdr.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:25:50 +1000 To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: phil grainger Subject: its here (almost) a commercial freebsd Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hiya guys, hey cybernet have beta released their NETMAX. You can sign up for a freebeta cd too ... sounds like freebsd with a pretty html admin thing aka freeasy. Phil To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jun 25 14:05:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA26314 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:05:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA26210 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:04:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@obie.softweyr.com) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA14151; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:04:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes) From: Wes Peters Message-Id: <199806252104.PAA14151@obie.softweyr.com> Subject: Re: Packet Engines Gigabit Ethernet In-Reply-To: from Open Systems Networking at "Jun 24, 98 04:46:53 pm" To: opsys@mail.webspan.net (Open Systems Networking) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, taob@risc.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Open Systems Networking And Consulting assert()'ed: > It's to bad we dont have a logo people can use to advertise they have > FreeBSD drivers. Something like FreeBSD certified or the like. > Course that may be to complicated. Since there is no certification board > except the, "It works for me!" board. :-) I think the "power to serve" logo would work fine. Let's go to work on these people. In addition to getting them on OUR vendors page, we should encourage them to put the Daemon logo on THEIR page, with a link to the FreeBSD home page. Some organizations may not be willing to put Chukc on their pages; perhaps we could convince Brian Tao to create a "power to serve" logo without the little devil? I KNOW it's wussing out, but it is an unfortunate truism that many companies have no sense (of humor) when it comes to their public image. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jun 25 15:49:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA14490 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:49:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA14277 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:48:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id RAA15408; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 17:45:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 17:51:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: Wes Peters cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, taob@risc.org Subject: Re: Packet Engines Gigabit Ethernet In-Reply-To: <199806252104.PAA14151@obie.softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 25 Jun 1998, Wes Peters wrote: > I think the "power to serve" logo would work fine. Let's go to > work on these people. In addition to getting them on OUR vendors > page, we should encourage them to put the Daemon logo on THEIR > page, with a link to the FreeBSD home page. The ill do what I can and see if I can get them to display it. > Some organizations may not be willing to put Chukc on their pages; > perhaps we could convince Brian Tao to create a "power to serve" > logo without the little devil? I KNOW it's wussing out, but it is > an unfortunate truism that many companies have no sense (of humor) > when it comes to their public image. Thats because suits are allowed to live :) Chris -- "Linux... The choice of a GNUtered generation." ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jun 25 16:23:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21105 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:23:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca (tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca [207.181.89.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA21044 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:22:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from taob@tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca) Received: (from taob@localhost) by tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA12402; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 19:22:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 19:22:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao X-Sender: taob@tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca To: Wes Peters cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Packet Engines Gigabit Ethernet In-Reply-To: <199806252104.PAA14151@obie.softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 25 Jun 1998, Wes Peters wrote: > > Some organizations may not be willing to put Chukc on their pages; > perhaps we could convince Brian Tao to create a "power to serve" > logo without the little devil? I KNOW it's wussing out, but it is > an unfortunate truism that many companies have no sense (of humor) > when it comes to their public image. Thanks for cc'ing me (I'm not on freebsd-advocacy). One of the other graphics I did at the same time as the "Powered by FreeBSD" one is a "stamp" of the wee demon's head. It was small enough to be a colophon on a page, or as a bullet for a page header. If people are uncomfortable with the depiction of a devil, the silhouette or shadow of one may not be as bad. -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org) "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jun 25 16:54:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA26559 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:54:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA26438 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:52:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id TAA11085 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 19:46:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 19:52:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Packet Engines - FreeBSD (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Woo! looks like my asking him to display a FreeBSD: The power to serve logo may have worked. As you will read he seems open minded to it as long as it can sell some of the GNIC's. As soon as he lets me know either way ill post it. Wonder if ron minnich would want to upgrade his cluster computing project to gigabit ethernet :-) More to come. Chris -- "Linux... The choice of a GNUtered generation." ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:23:39 -0700 From: Dan Holden To: 'Open Systems Networking' Cc: Ted Matsumura Subject: RE: Packet Engines - FreeBSD Chris, I think it would great to have the logo displayed. I have forwarded your email to Ted Matsamura who is our Product Mananger for our GNIC. Ted will have the final say but if this would help us market the GNIC and give you a gigbit NIC, why not work with each other? I'll get back to you soon with an answer. Regards, Dan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jun 25 21:41:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA04268 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:41:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (root@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA04222 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:40:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA12231; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 23:40:48 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 23:40:47 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon X-Sender: cdillon@duey.hs.wolves.k12.mo.us To: Open Systems Networking cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Packet Engines - FreeBSD (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 25 Jun 1998, Open Systems Networking wrote: > > Woo! looks like my asking him to display a FreeBSD: The power to serve > logo may have worked. As you will read he seems open minded to it as long > as it can sell some of the GNIC's. As soon as he lets me know either way > ill post it. Wonder if ron minnich would want to upgrade his cluster > computing project to gigabit ethernet :-) I would be SURE to buy some if I go gigabit on any part of my network. In fact, I'm putting together a large FreeBSD based router for work and wouldn't mind having some gigabit here, a little there, a dash over there... ;-> -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net /* FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For Intel x86 and compatibles (SPARC and Alpha under development) (http://www.freebsd.org) */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jun 25 23:43:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA18336 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 23:43:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xwin.webweaver.net (xwin.webweaver.net [208.138.29.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA18327 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 23:43:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.webweaver.net) Received: (from nicole@localhost) by xwin.webweaver.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id WAA25136; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 22:42:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 22:42:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole Harrington To: Open Systems Networking Subject: RE: Packet Engines - FreeBSD (fwd) Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id XAA18330 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 25-Jun-98 Open Systems Networking wisely wrote: > > Woo! looks like my asking him to display a FreeBSD: The power to serve > logo may have worked. As you will read he seems open minded to it as long > as it can sell some of the GNIC's. As soon as he lets me know either way > ill post it. Wonder if ron minnich would want to upgrade his cluster > computing project to gigabit ethernet :-) > > More to come. > > Chris > Well I just bought 10 of them for my project at work. One problem though, is that they are comming out with a new/better card soon bu t the driver will not work with it yet. If anyone wants to see what I am working on, go to http://www.webweaver.net/work I had been wanting to put togther a write up on them, but have been too dman bu sy at work :< Nicole > -- > "Linux... The choice of a GNUtered generation." > > ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. > FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 > -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 > FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net > http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security > ===================================| http://open-systems.net > > -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- > Version: 2.6.2 > > mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te > gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC > foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z > d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb > NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv > CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 > b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= > =BBjp > -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:23:39 -0700 > From: Dan Holden > To: 'Open Systems Networking' > Cc: Ted Matsumura > Subject: RE: Packet Engines - FreeBSD > > Chris, > > I think it would great to have the logo displayed. > > I have forwarded your email to Ted Matsamura who is our Product Mananger > for our GNIC. Ted will have the final say but if this would help us > market the GNIC and give you a gigbit NIC, why not work with each other? > > I'll get back to you soon with an answer. > > Regards, > Dan > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message nicole@webweaver.net - http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org - http://www.dangermouse.org/ ------------------------------------------------- -- Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD -- -- Stong enough for a man - But made for a Woman -- -- Microsoft: What bug would you like today? -- -- I tried an internal modem once, but it hurt when I walked -- --------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jun 26 14:37:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA09505 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:37:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA09319 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:36:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA29633 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:35:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:35:51 -0600 (MDT) From: Brett Taylor To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: white paper - NT vs Unix Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There's a nice white paper out there on NT vs Unix. You'll find FreeBSD listed in quite a few places (with Yahoo, Hotmail stories etc...) http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~kirch/ Brett ********************************************************* Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu http://peloton.physics.montana.edu/brett/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jun 26 16:26:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA26198 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 16:26:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (daemon@smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA26052; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 16:26:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA01964; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 16:26:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd001897; Fri Jun 26 16:26:08 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA23161; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 16:26:03 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806262326.QAA23161@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Packet Engines - FreeBSD To: freelist@webweaver.net (Nicole Harrington) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:26:02 +0000 (GMT) Cc: opsys@mail.webspan.net, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Nicole Harrington" at Jun 25, 98 10:42:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Well I just bought 10 of them for my project at work. > One problem though, is that they are comming out with a new/better > card soon but the driver will not work with it yet. > > If anyone wants to see what I am working on, go to > http://www.webweaver.net/work > > I had been wanting to put togther a write up on them, but have been > too dman busy at work :< It says "ISPCHANNEL DESIGN". If this is a design for an ISP, I would *seriously* recommend including *seperate* internal and external DNS. This is because "best known practice" for SMTP mail delivery with a dynamic IP assignment to customers whose domains you are hosting *requires* this: Mail in: client | ISP | Internet | | | External DNS | mail to bob@client.com | | MX for client.com? | x.x.x.x MX client.com | <--------------- | | send it to x.x.x.x | | ----------------> | SMTP Server | here's the mail! | IP=x.x.x.x | <--------------- Mail retrieval: client | ISP | Internet | | | | connection... | | ----------------> | Livingston Portmaster | Your IP is y.y.y.y... | | ^ | <--------------- | v | | | Radius Server | | | | | y.y.y.y MX client.com | | v | | Internal DNS | | ^ | ETRN client.com | | | ----------------> | SMTP server | | IP=x.x.x.x | | | | connect to y.y.y.y | SMTP server | <--------------- | | here's mail, buddy! | | <--------------- | Thanks, buddy! | | ----------------> | | This allows an ISP to assign dynamic IP's (preserving the prescious static IP address assignments for his own machines and for clients who pay him (or her) lots of money and want to host their own servers (these are usually full time connections, anyway). You have to have a seperate internal server to allow you to prevent cached information from damaging your ability to correctly deliver the mail (ie: if someone cached that client.com's MX was y.y.y.y, and another customer dialed in and the IP was reassinged, that would be bad). Since sendmail does not cache DNS information, the act of the radiusd removeing the DDNS (Dynamic DNS) created MX in the internal DNS server is sufficient to resolve the "do ETRN and hang up, letting someone else get the IP address instead" problem that would result from cached data (I don't know what vmailer does, but qmail also does the right thing). A secondary advantage is that the link to the larger net can become damaged or go down, and many essential services can continue functioning transparently. POP3 retrieval is not sufficient, since envelope information is destroyed (unless you hack you smtp server to either ensure that the "Received:" timestamp always includes a "for" -- remove "m" from the local mailer falgs line -- or you add an "X-Envelope-To:" header). Even if the envelope information is not lost, the most popular program for doing this, "fetchmail" (from the paper "The Bizarre Cathedral") is too stupid to assign priority other than by order of occurrrance, and it always insists that the machine you are POPping from be treated as one of your MX's -- ie: you get bogus delivery if the SMTP server and the POP3 server are not the same machine, and the virtual domain to maildrop translation is done on the SMTP server. This is because the "Received:" timestamps "by hostname" portion matches, and the for is "for isp.maildrop" instead of the correct "for user@client.com". Much better to use ETRN (and save the maildrop and POP3 processing overhead at the same time) -- and with DDNS, it's possible to do this with dynamic IP assignment to your customers. (I'd just hate for such a large setup, like that depicted in youe diagram, to get mail wrong -- even though almost every ISP on the Internet tends to get mail wrong. Hell, *my* ISP's SMTP server stamps the wrong "by servername" on it; the "servername" is *supposed* to match my MX records, not their internal mythical name for their mail server on DNS rotor that happens to anser the SMTP port!) Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jun 26 19:56:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA29122 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 19:56:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xwin.webweaver.net (xwin.webweaver.net [208.138.29.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA29117; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 19:56:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.webweaver.net) Received: (from nicole@localhost) by xwin.webweaver.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id SAA27066; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 18:55:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199806262326.QAA23161@usr01.primenet.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 18:55:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole Harrington To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: Packet Engines - FreeBSD Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, opsys@mail.webspan.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id TAA29118 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 26-Jun-98 Terry Lambert wisely wrote: >> Well I just bought 10 of them for my project at work. >> One problem though, is that they are comming out with a new/better >> card soon but the driver will not work with it yet. >> >> If anyone wants to see what I am working on, go to >> http://www.webweaver.net/work >> >> I had been wanting to put togther a write up on them, but have been >> too dman busy at work :< > > > It says "ISPCHANNEL DESIGN". > Yes, for www.ispchannel.com Cable modems! > If this is a design for an ISP, I would *seriously* recommend including > *seperate* internal and external DNS. > > This is because "best known practice" for SMTP mail delivery with a > dynamic IP assignment to customers whose domains you are hosting > *requires* this: > > > This allows an ISP to assign dynamic IP's (preserving the prescious > static IP address assignments for his own machines and for clients > who pay him (or her) lots of money and want to host their own servers > (these are usually full time connections, anyway). > > You have to have a seperate internal server to allow you to prevent > cached information from damaging your ability to correctly deliver > the mail (ie: if someone cached that client.com's MX was y.y.y.y, and > another customer dialed in and the IP was reassinged, that would be > bad). > I have looked over what you have sent and Thanks! However I don't belive that this will apply to what we are doing since.. A: Our DNS server has a set fwd and rev address for each address. B: No one is allowed to use a domain name without having a dedicated connection. At least I belive that is what you are saying must be needed to prevent the pro blems you describe. I could be Way Off.. Please let me know if I am. ( It's late Friday.. hello hello.. come in Brain...) Also, I have designed a Mailserver to run at MX35 to act as a FAILover with a l arge que storage if I need to take take the mail system offline or the RAID syst em dies somehow or things just get too busy. It also acts as the MX35 for clients who want to run mail at their site. Just to mention, I am using Qmail with Maildir delivery to overcome the fi le locking problems of sendmail across an NFS link. It also is great for hosting a bunch of domains. Later, after it is all assembled I hope to write up what makes it tick and shar e it with everyone here. The setup is ALL FreeBSD except for the DHCP servers ( If only FreeBSD could run Sun/Solaris Binaries) and of course the Netapp device s. Also the drawing needs to be updated since my budget got cut and I needed to scale back a bit on the news system and virtual and ~ customers will stay on the same servers. All the servers are: 400 MHZ pent II's with 128 or 256 Megs mem Abit BX MB S3 video Intel Ether express Ethernet OR Packetengines G-Nic cards DPT 3334UW RAID cards with 32MB Simm 2 Seegate cheeta drives in Mirror Siliconrax cases Hovered around Network Appliance F630 File servers via the Packetengines GB HUB. So far it looks like... Webservice: apache 1.3 Virt FTP: ncftpd FTP: wu FTP Mail: Qmail and tcpd News: Dnews (for now - It works great and I think I can get up to 1000 users on a big box - had to save money somewhere) Transparent/reverse proxy: Squid Nicole > Since sendmail does not cache DNS information, the act of the radiusd > removeing the DDNS (Dynamic DNS) created MX in the internal DNS server > is sufficient to resolve the "do ETRN and hang up, letting someone > else get the IP address instead" problem that would result from cached > data (I don't know what vmailer does, but qmail also does the right > thing). > > A secondary advantage is that the link to the larger net can become > damaged or go down, and many essential services can continue functioning > transparently. > > POP3 retrieval is not sufficient, since envelope information is > destroyed (unless you hack you smtp server to either ensure that the > "Received:" timestamp always includes a "for" -- remove "m" from the > local mailer falgs line -- or you add an "X-Envelope-To:" header). > > Even if the envelope information is not lost, the most popular program > for doing this, "fetchmail" (from the paper "The Bizarre Cathedral") > is too stupid to assign priority other than by order of occurrrance, > and it always insists that the machine you are POPping from be > treated as one of your MX's -- ie: you get bogus delivery if the > SMTP server and the POP3 server are not the same machine, and the > virtual domain to maildrop translation is done on the SMTP server. > This is because the "Received:" timestamps "by hostname" portion > matches, and the for is "for isp.maildrop" instead of the correct > "for user@client.com". > > Much better to use ETRN (and save the maildrop and POP3 processing > overhead at the same time) -- and with DDNS, it's possible to do this > with dynamic IP assignment to your customers. > > > (I'd just hate for such a large setup, like that depicted in youe > diagram, to get mail wrong -- even though almost every ISP on the > Internet tends to get mail wrong. Hell, *my* ISP's SMTP server > stamps the wrong "by servername" on it; the "servername" is *supposed* > to match my MX records, not their internal mythical name for their > mail server on DNS rotor that happens to anser the SMTP port!) > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. nicole@webweaver.net - http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org - http://www.dangermouse.org/ ------------------------------------------------- -- Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD -- -- Stong enough for a man - But made for a Woman -- -- Microsoft: What bug would you like today? -- -- I tried an internal modem once, but it hurt when I walked -- --------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jun 26 20:31:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA03411 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:31:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (daemon@smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA03394; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:31:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA13150; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:31:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd013091; Fri Jun 26 20:31:11 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA18358; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:31:06 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806270331.UAA18358@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Packet Engines - FreeBSD To: freelist@webweaver.net (Nicole Harrington) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 03:31:06 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, opsys@mail.webspan.net In-Reply-To: from "Nicole Harrington" at Jun 26, 98 06:55:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > It says "ISPCHANNEL DESIGN". > > > Yes, for www.ispchannel.com Cable modems! Hey! So when are you going to be selling in Foster City, CA? 8-). > I have looked over what you have sent and Thanks! > However I don't belive that this will apply to what we are doing since.. > A: Our DNS server has a set fwd and rev address for each address. > B: No one is allowed to use a domain name without having a dedicated > connection. > > At least I belive that is what you are saying must be needed to prevent > the problems you describe. I could be Way Off.. Please let me know if I > am. ( It's late Friday.. hello hello.. come in Brain...) If by "B", you mean they are permanently assigned one of the IP addresses from your allocated block (ie: they have a static IP), then it's not a problem. For a lot of ISPs that "grew up" from small operations (which is most of them), there comes a point when the static IP's become too prescious; I have heard that Best Internet (www.best.com) is a heavy FreeBSD user that has gone this route; they recently stopped offering static IP's (but they haven't installed a DDNS soloution, yet), so they are pretty much cutting themselves out of the small business (ie: transiently connected business) market when the business outgrows 3 or 5 or however many POP3 maildrops and needs their own server. Or if they don't outgrow it, but they don't want their company mail going out to where they don't control before it comes back. DDNS buys you a large part of your address block back. > Also, I have designed a Mailserver to run at MX35 to act as a FAILover > with a large que storage if I need to take take the mail system offline > or the RAID system dies somehow or things just get too busy. It also > acts as the MX35 for clients who want to run mail at their site. If you get paranoid, you may want to locate a secondary DNS and failover server elsewhere, in case of net death. That won't be a problem until you have 30,000 customers (everyone should have such problems 8-)). > Just to mention, I am using Qmail with Maildir delivery to overcome the > file locking problems of sendmail across an NFS link. This is really more of a problem with the Mlocal mailer more than anything else, I think. Sendmail doesn't do final delivery itself. You could hack /usr/libexec/mail.local to use lock files rather easily. 8-). > The setup is ALL FreeBSD except for the DHCP servers (If only FreeBSD > could run Sun/Solaris Binaries) and of course the Netapp devices. Also > the drawing needs to be updated since my budget got cut and I needed to > scale back a bit on the news system and virtual and ~ customers will > stay on the same servers. What's wrong with the ISC DHCP on FreeBSD, that you need Sun/Solaris binaries? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jun 26 20:48:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA05061 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:48:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xwin.webweaver.net (xwin.webweaver.net [208.138.29.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA05044; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:48:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.webweaver.net) Received: (from nicole@localhost) by xwin.webweaver.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id TAA27168; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 19:47:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199806270331.UAA18358@usr04.primenet.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 19:47:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole Harrington To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: Packet Engines - FreeBSD Cc: opsys@mail.webspan.net, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id UAA05045 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 27-Jun-98 Terry Lambert wisely wrote: >> > It says "ISPCHANNEL DESIGN". >> > >> Yes, for www.ispchannel.com Cable modems! > > Hey! So when are you going to be selling in Foster City, CA? > Dunno.. I'm not that involved in that end... I belive the web page gives some i nfo about it. However if you are a TCI customer you are in @home territory :< >> At least I belive that is what you are saying must be needed to prevent >> the problems you describe. I could be Way Off.. Please let me know if I >> am. ( It's late Friday.. hello hello.. come in Brain...) > If by "B", you mean they are permanently assigned one of the IP > addresses from your allocated block (ie: they have a static IP), then > it's not a problem. Yes and No. The 2 way systems get a perminant IP. The dial back systems do not. However we will most likely Not be allowing people to run servers or domains via thier cable modem. It is still up in the air however. Altho, any user who has a domain they want to use They MUST have a fixed IP. > much cutting themselves out of the small business (ie: transiently > connected business) market when the business outgrows 3 or 5 or > however many POP3 maildrops and needs their own server. Or if they > don't outgrow it, but they don't want their company mail going out > to where they don't control before it comes back. DDNS buys you > a large part of your address block back. > Yes, we really just stay away from "transiently connected business" We have eno ugh perm connect customers now to deal with. > >> Also, I have designed a Mailserver to run at MX35 to act as a FAILover >> with a large que storage if I need to take take the mail system offline >> or the RAID system dies somehow or things just get too busy. It also >> acts as the MX35 for clients who want to run mail at their site. > > If you get paranoid, you may want to locate a secondary DNS and > failover server elsewhere, in case of net death. That won't be > a problem until you have 30,000 customers (everyone should have such > problems 8-)). > Yes I would like too. Altho we will have 2 T3's soon. One via MCI and the other via Sprint. > >> Just to mention, I am using Qmail with Maildir delivery to overcome the >> file locking problems of sendmail across an NFS link. > > This is really more of a problem with the Mlocal mailer more than > anything else, I think. Sendmail doesn't do final delivery itself. > You could hack /usr/libexec/mail.local to use lock files rather > easily. 8-). > Yes, however the idea of having 100K+ messages being appended to a usenames fil e just doesn't seem appealing. It is faster to just drop a file into a directory . > >> The setup is ALL FreeBSD except for the DHCP servers (If only FreeBSD >> could run Sun/Solaris Binaries) and of course the Netapp devices. Also >> the drawing needs to be updated since my budget got cut and I needed to >> scale back a bit on the news system and virtual and ~ customers will >> stay on the same servers. > > What's wrong with the ISC DHCP on FreeBSD, that you need Sun/Solaris > binaries? There are only 2 DHCP companies (That I know of) that adhere to the MCNS Cable modem standards. The one I want to switch too (since the one my boss chose to run on a NT machine keeps dying.. imagine that :> ) only come in HP UNIX and su n/solaris. Belive me.. If I could I would. But we are looking at having 100K+ users by nex t year with abt 100 cable sites banging away on the DHCP servers. I need somethi ng known to work for this application. Nicole nicole@webweaver.net - http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org - http://www.dangermouse.org/ ------------------------------------------------- -- Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD -- -- Stong enough for a man - But made for a Woman -- -- Microsoft: What bug would you like today? -- -- I tried an internal modem once, but it hurt when I walked -- --------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jun 26 21:02:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA06506 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 21:02:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (daemon@smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA06440; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 21:01:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA13200; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 21:01:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd013133; Fri Jun 26 21:01:46 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA20393; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 21:01:43 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806270401.VAA20393@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Packet Engines - FreeBSD To: freelist@webweaver.net (Nicole Harrington) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 04:01:43 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, opsys@mail.webspan.net, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Nicole Harrington" at Jun 26, 98 07:47:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Dunno.. I'm not that involved in that end... I belive the web page > gives some info about it. However if you are a TCI customer you are > in @home territory :< I'm afraid I am TCI-land. But of course, they don't have it yet, so I don't have cable TV (boycotting on general principles, I suppose, since they won't sell me Internet service or phone service, and I'm unwilling to sign yet another check per month; though I'm nearly convinced that TCI generates RF interference intentionally to make people buy cable. 8-)). > > If by "B", you mean they are permanently assigned one of the IP > > addresses from your allocated block (ie: they have a static IP), then > > it's not a problem. > > Yes and No. The 2 way systems get a perminant IP. The dial back systems > do not. However we will most likely Not be allowing people to run > servers or domains via thier cable modem. It is still up in the air > however. Altho, any user who has a domain they want to use They MUST > have a fixed IP. Well, for customer-bound mail traffic, it's not really a "server". For SPAMmers and for FTP/HTTP servers, I could see there being a problem. You could easily block that by firewalling HTTP/FTP packets without the response bit set. 8-). I expect you want them to pull data instead of pushing it. I know the @Home guys are > Yes, we really just stay away from "transiently connected business" We > have enough perm connect customers now to deal with. Easy decision to make with a cable modem, I suppose, where everything is basically on all the time. > Yes, however the idea of having 100K+ messages being appended to a > usenames file just doesn't seem appealing. It is faster to just drop a > file into a directory. The flip side is that it eats a lot of inodes when you uses your FS as a database. Overall, you will be able to fit more messages on a disk when you are eating a "from" line overhead instead of 128 bytes for an inode and an average of fragsize/2 bytes per message. More of an administrative issue than anything else. 8-). > > What's wrong with the ISC DHCP on FreeBSD, that you need Sun/Solaris > > binaries? > > There are only 2 DHCP companies (That I know of) that adhere to the > MCNS Cable modem standards. The one I want to switch too (since the > one my boss chose to run on a NT machine keeps dying.. imagine that > :> ) only come in HP UNIX and sun/solaris. Solaris x86, or Solaris/SPARC? > Belive me.. If I could I would. But we are looking at having 100K+ > users by next year with abt 100 cable sites banging away on the DHCP > servers. I need something known to work for this application. Makes sense; on the other hand, the ISC stuff is the reference implementation. I'd be surprised if it (or the WIDE stuff) didn't support all the standards. You might want to contact Vixie and ask him... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jun 27 00:07:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA25602 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:07:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xwin.webweaver.net (xwin.webweaver.net [208.138.29.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA25594; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:06:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.webweaver.net) Received: (from nicole@localhost) by xwin.webweaver.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id XAA27444; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:05:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199806270401.VAA20393@usr04.primenet.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:05:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole Harrington To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: Packet Engines - FreeBSD + more Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, opsys@mail.webspan.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id AAA25595 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 27-Jun-98 Terry Lambert wisely wrote: > > Well, for customer-bound mail traffic, it's not really a "server". For > SPAMmers and for FTP/HTTP servers, I could see there being a problem. > You could easily block that by firewalling HTTP/FTP packets without > the response bit set. 8-). I expect you want them to pull data instead > of pushing it. I know the @Home guys are > Um... OK.. It's Late.. I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Are you revering to those spammers who look for people connected to the net with open smtp ports to spam to or from? What do you mean by "I expect you want them to pull data instead of pushing it? " >> Yes, however the idea of having 100K+ messages being appended to a >> usenames file just doesn't seem appealing. It is faster to just drop a >> file into a directory. > > The flip side is that it eats a lot of inodes when you uses your FS > as a database. Overall, you will be able to fit more messages on a > disk when you are eating a "from" line overhead instead of 128 bytes > for an inode and an average of fragsize/2 bytes per message. > More of an administrative issue than anything else. 8-). Yes everything is a trade off. I know there are ways to get around some of thes e things, however since we are (at least for the moment) offering shell accts, I needed something that I could use easily with them as well as pop3 for reading mail. Also, having the mail in the users directory makes space usage/quotas easier to manage for me. Speaking of which, I think you will like my directory scheme. Nicole = /home/1/n/nic/nicole terry = /home/2/t/ter/terry lambert = /home/3/l/lam/lambert home is the general mount point the first number is a random number generated during acct creation (1-3). the 2nd char is the 1st char of the username the 3rd char is the 1st 3 char of the username Then the user name. This makes adding another filer easy via the possible 1/2/3 mount points and I think 3 filers would be plenty for the forseable future, but more could easily b e added via a weighted random generator. This rest is to prevent too many users per directory. If you can think of any additions or alternatives, please let me know. > >> > What's wrong with the ISC DHCP on FreeBSD, that you need Sun/Solaris >> > binaries? >> >> There are only 2 DHCP companies (That I know of) that adhere to the >> MCNS Cable modem standards. The one I want to switch too (since the >> one my boss chose to run on a NT machine keeps dying.. imagine that >> :> ) only come in HP UNIX and sun/solaris. > > Solaris x86, or Solaris/SPARC? > They have both, but reccomend the sparc version. I also need to run the Netscap e calendering software. > >> Belive me.. If I could I would. But we are looking at having 100K+ >> users by next year with abt 100 cable sites banging away on the DHCP >> servers. I need something known to work for this application. > > Makes sense; on the other hand, the ISC stuff is the reference > implementation. I'd be surprised if it (or the WIDE stuff) didn't > support all the standards. You might want to contact Vixie and > ask him... > Hmm Yea but the other stuff has a nice pretty interface and has been used by ot her cable companies. Just like I have said about the needs of the FreeBSD pages , the bosses want to see who else is using it, etc etc. So, I could push it and if it works I'm OK. If it doesn't, I'm MUD. FreeBSD I know, trust and belive in enough to be able to say BAH! we don't need Xbrand comercial UNIX or Billy Bloa tware and feel safe. I will look deeper however. Thanks Nicole nicole@webweaver.net - http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org - http://www.dangermouse.org/ ------------------------------------------------- -- Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD -- -- Stong enough for a man - But made for a Woman -- -- Microsoft: What bug would you like today? -- -- I tried an internal modem once, but it hurt when I walked -- --------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jun 27 01:03:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA03672 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:03:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (daemon@smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA03630; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:02:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA25699; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:02:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd025697; Sat Jun 27 01:02:20 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA24158; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:02:15 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806270802.BAA24158@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Packet Engines - FreeBSD + more To: freelist@webweaver.net (Nicole Harrington) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 08:02:15 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, opsys@mail.webspan.net In-Reply-To: from "Nicole Harrington" at Jun 26, 98 11:05:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Well, for customer-bound mail traffic, it's not really a "server". For > > SPAMmers and for FTP/HTTP servers, I could see there being a problem. > > You could easily block that by firewalling HTTP/FTP packets without > > the response bit set. 8-). I expect you want them to pull data instead > > of pushing it. I know the @Home guys are > > Um... OK.. It's Late.. I'm not sure I understand what you mean. > Are you revering to those spammers who look for people connected to > the net with open smtp ports to spam to or from? SPAMmers look for ISP's who don't stop them from sending SPAM, and for relay hosts otherwise. Either way, the packets coming from your customers to the Internet could be a problem for you. > What do you mean by "I expect you want them to pull data instead of > pushing it?" I expect that you have a small channel from the user to the Internet, and a big channel from the Internet to the user. Most cable-modem setups use ADSL, with a tiny channel for requests and a huge back channel for responses, on the theory that an FTP/HTTP "get" will result in a heck of a lot of data compared to the size of the request for the data... ie: "people get cable modems so they can suck stuff down faster". You're effectively a "content provider". A cable company offering Internet connectivity via cable-modem is generally doing so on the theory that people will be pulling data down from the Internet, not pushing data up to the Internet (ie: you expect the vast majority of them to run client software, not server software). If you want people to not be able to run HTTP or FTP or other TCP based servers, you can refuse connection requests going from the Internet to your customers machines. Connection requests will go up, and packets will come back from the server with the "response" bit set in the header. Connection packets that don't have the "response" bit in them are connections to your customer's machines from the Internet -- basically, unsolicited traffic in violation of the "don't run a server" policy. This is a typical CISCO configuration for corporate firewalls; it saves them having to set up proxies for their outbound connections (FTP, HTTP, etc.). As far as policies go, machine enforcement always works better than voluntary cooperation from humans. 8-). > Also, having the mail in the users directory makes space usage/quotas > easier to manage for me. > > Speaking of which, I think you will like my directory scheme. > Nicole = /home/1/n/nic/nicole > terry = /home/2/t/ter/terry > lambert = /home/3/l/lam/lambert Good thinking. A semi-b-tree to break up the directory entry space into smaller chunks so linear traversals don't take as long. 8-). > the first number is a random number generated during acct creation (1-3). > > If you can think of any additions or alternatives, please let me know. The only two that come to mind are: 1) "Keep a count and try to balance the tree at account creation time by making the first number choice a weighted value instead of a random number". 2) "Rebalance the tree from time to time by migrating accounts around. Just prebalancing the tree (per #1) is not enough, since accunts also have random duration, as well as random arrival times". > > Solaris x86, or Solaris/SPARC? > > They have both, but reccomend the sparc version. Is the x86 code statically or dynamically linked? > I also need to run the Netscape calendering software. Hmmmm... r e a l l y... I have LDAP schema's for the full Netscape calendering, per the Netscape published documentation on their Web Site. What I *don't* have is a way to test vs. a client, or knowledge of what the server does besides provide an LDAP repository (if it even does anything else). I was thinking that I'd write a calendering library for client interoperability, if I ever found someone who actually bought their server... I can send the netscape.at.conf and netscape.oc.conf files (which actually have my version of their entire schema set, not just the calendering) if you wanted to putter around. 8-). > Hmm Yea but the other stuff has a nice pretty interface and has been > used by other cable companies. Just like I have said about the needs > of the FreeBSD pages, the bosses want to see who else is using it, > etc etc. So, I could push it and if it works I'm OK. If it doesn't, > I'm MUD. FreeBSD I know, trust and belive in enough to be able to say > BAH! we don't need Xbrand comercial UNIX or Billy Bloatware and feel > safe. 8-). Yeah; did you see: http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~kirch/ ? > I will look deeper however. Yeah; don't take unnecessary risks; I was just thinking of the financial side of things... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jun 27 07:43:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA18252 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 07:43:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from junior.apk.net (root@junior.apk.net [207.54.158.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA18245; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 07:43:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stuart@krivis.com) Received: from carbon (as1-icg-29.apk.net [207.54.186.39]) by junior.apk.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA03422; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:42:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806271442.KAA03422@junior.apk.net> From: "Stuart Krivis" Organization: Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, Inc. To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, opsys@mail.webspan.net Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:38:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Packet Engines - FreeBSD + more Reply-to: stuart@krivis.com In-reply-to: References: <199806270401.VAA20393@usr04.primenet.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 26 Jun 98, at 23:05, Nicole Harrington wrote: > > Solaris x86, or Solaris/SPARC? > > > > They have both, but reccomend the sparc version. I also need to run the > Netscape calendering software. I'd recommend the SPARC version. And you can buy a SPARCstation 20 for a good price these days. -- Stuart Krivis stuart@krivis.com [Team APK] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jun 27 12:09:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA15263 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:09:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xwin.webweaver.net (xwin.webweaver.net [208.138.29.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA15246; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:09:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.webweaver.net) Received: (from nicole@localhost) by xwin.webweaver.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA01179; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:08:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199806270802.BAA24158@usr08.primenet.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:08:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole Harrington To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: Packet Engines - FreeBSD + more Cc: opsys@mail.webspan.net, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id MAA15248 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 27-Jun-98 Terry Lambert wisely wrote: > SPAMmers look for ISP's who don't stop them from sending SPAM, > and for relay hosts otherwise. Either way, the packets coming from > your customers to the Internet could be a problem for you. > > Oh Yea..We have already had problems with people sending spam from their cable connection as well as people thinking "cool, I have this nice fast connection to my house, I think I'll set up my own server" and set up an NT box or some Linux box. The next thing they know I have to call them to ask why odd things are hap pening from their connection. Only to learn that they have been hacked! This is a fun game, as there is nothing so dangerous as a clueless user with a T 1 to their house. >> What do you mean by "I expect you want them to pull data instead of >> pushing it?" > > I expect that you have a small channel from the user to the Internet, > and a big channel from the Internet to the user. Most cable-modem > setups use ADSL, with a tiny channel for requests and a huge back > channel for responses, on the theory that an FTP/HTTP "get" will > result in a heck of a lot of data compared to the size of the request > for the data... ie: "people get cable modems so they can suck stuff > down faster". Yes, depending on 1 way or 2 way systems and the QOS they buy. > If you want people to not be able to run HTTP or FTP or other TCP > based servers, you can refuse connection requests going from the > Internet to your customers machines. Connection requests will go > up, and packets will come back from the server with the "response" > bit set in the header. > Connection packets that don't have the "response" bit in them are > connections to your customer's machines from the Internet -- basically, > unsolicited traffic in violation of the "don't run a server" policy. > This is a typical CISCO configuration for corporate firewalls; it > saves them having to set up proxies for their outbound connections > (FTP, HTTP, etc.). > As far as policies go, machine enforcement always works better than > voluntary cooperation from humans. 8-). > This is a good idea I am going to make sure our new lead Networking person know s and thinks about this. Thanks :> >> Also, having the mail in the users directory makes space usage/quotas >> easier to manage for me. >> >> Speaking of which, I think you will like my directory scheme. >> Nicole = /home/1/n/nic/nicole >> terry = /home/2/t/ter/terry >> lambert = /home/3/l/lam/lambert > > Good thinking. A semi-b-tree to break up the directory entry space > into smaller chunks so linear traversals don't take as long. 8-). > Thanks! > >> the first number is a random number generated during acct creation (1-3). >> >> If you can think of any additions or alternatives, please let me know. > > The only two that come to mind are: > > 1) "Keep a count and try to balance the tree at account creation > time by making the first number choice a weighted value instead > of a random number". > Hmmm Yes, to make sure it stays even and random. > 2) "Rebalance the tree from time to time by migrating accounts > around. Just prebalancing the tree (per #1) is not enough, > since accunts also have random duration, as well as random > arrival times". > This is tricky however since this will affect those with web sites who hav e cgi-scripts that need to know where they are. But yes I need to think about ho w to make sure things stay balanaced. Hmmmm >> > Solaris x86, or Solaris/SPARC? >> >> They have both, but reccomend the sparc version. > > Is the x86 code statically or dynamically linked? Dunno.. how do I find out. Just calling them I guess :} >> I also need to run the Netscape calendering software. > > Hmmmm... r e a l l y... > > I have LDAP schema's for the full Netscape calendering, per the Netscape > published documentation on their Web Site. > > What I *don't* have is a way to test vs. a client, or knowledge of > what the server does besides provide an LDAP repository (if it even > does anything else). > > I was thinking that I'd write a calendering library for client > interoperability, if I ever found someone who actually bought their > server... > > I can send the netscape.at.conf and netscape.oc.conf files (which > actually have my version of their entire schema set, not just the > calendering) if you wanted to putter around. 8-). > Sure! I love to putter. I learn a lot that way. However I know nothing about LDAP. But the calendar software is for schedual ma nagement for the executypes to set up meetings. How does this work with LDAP? I am working on a new Intranet machine and the ONE thing they need/want (the ne tscape calendering) won't run on FreeBSD so I may have to run a SPARC for the w hole thing. BAH! >> Hmm Yea but the other stuff has a nice pretty interface and has been >> used by other cable companies. Just like I have said about the needs >> of the FreeBSD pages, the bosses want to see who else is using it, >> etc etc. So, I could push it and if it works I'm OK. If it doesn't, >> I'm MUD. FreeBSD I know, trust and belive in enough to be able to say >> BAH! we don't need Xbrand comercial UNIX or Billy Bloatware and feel >> safe. > > 8-). Yeah; did you see: http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~kirch/ ? > > No.. However I just read a bit of it and found it most amusing and true. I plan to read on.. Thanks >> I will look deeper however. > > Yeah; don't take unnecessary risks; I was just thinking of the > financial side of things... Yea it's a tough balance. Our new VP of technology is from Netscape so of cours e he would like to have us use Netscape stuff. Most of which does not run on Fre eBSD. So I had to present my case as to why FreeBSD and Apache etc.. is good for us instead of Netscape Suite etc etc etc ... So far I have been sucessfull in h aving us standardize on FreeBSD. After all, what's not to love :> Nicole nicole@webweaver.net - http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org - http://www.dangermouse.org/ ------------------------------------------------- -- Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD -- -- Stong enough for a man - But made for a Woman -- -- Microsoft: What bug would you like today? -- -- I tried an internal modem once, but it hurt when I walked -- --------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jun 27 19:21:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA09574 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:21:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (garbanzo@tibet-58.ppp.hooked.net [206.80.9.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA09535 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:21:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA01424 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:21:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:21:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: The lighter side of advocacy Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Anyone who has had the luck to pick up a copy of Computer Currents, has probably read Lincoln Spector's "column" gigglebytes (or at least the Fifth Wave I hope). Anywho one of his columns, entitled "The Maltese Penguin", *grin*, available at: http://www.currents.net/magazine/national/1612/gigg1612.html - alex | "Contrary to popular belief, penguins are not the salvation of modern | | technology. Neither do they throw parties for the urban proletariat." | | Powered by FreeBSD http://www.freebsd.org/ | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jun 27 19:40:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA10976 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:40:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from postman.true.net (s1.admin.true.net [161.196.66.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA10962; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:40:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lem@cantv.net) Received: from s2.admin.true.net (mail.cantv.net [161.196.66.21]) by postman.true.net (8.8.7/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA14048; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 22:39:27 -0400 (VET) Received: from lem (root@localhost) by s2.admin.true.net (8.8.7/CS-R-1.4) with SMTP id WAA20778; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 22:39:24 -0400 (VET) X-BlackMail: lem.dialup.true.net, lem, lem@cantv.net, 200.11.160.2 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 22:39:25(VET) on June 27, 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980627221053.00867c80@pop.cantv.net> X-Sender: lem@pop.cantv.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 22:10:53 -0400 To: Nicole Harrington From: Luis Munoz Subject: Re: Packet Engines - FreeBSD + more Cc: Terry Lambert , opsys@mail.webspan.net, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <199806270802.BAA24158@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [snip] >> >>> the first number is a random number generated during acct creation (1-3). >>> >>> If you can think of any additions or alternatives, please let me know. >> >> The only two that come to mind are: >> >> 1) "Keep a count and try to balance the tree at account creation >> time by making the first number choice a weighted value instead >> of a random number". >> > > Hmmm Yes, to make sure it stays even and random. > > >> 2) "Rebalance the tree from time to time by migrating accounts >> around. Just prebalancing the tree (per #1) is not enough, >> since accunts also have random duration, as well as random >> arrival times". >> > > This is tricky however since this will affect those with web sites who hav >e cgi-scripts that need to know where they are. But yes I need to think about ho >w to make sure things stay balanaced. Hmmmm Using a substring of the MD5 of the key, in this case the login, is very good as this function tends to balance input into nice 'buckets'. You could do something like /home/aa /home/ab and so on. There you would create the users' directory. This would give you 256 buckets of users. Of course, you can use more :) Just my $0.01 :) Regards. -lem To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jun 27 21:22:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA21888 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:22:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from junior.apk.net (root@junior.apk.net [207.54.158.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA21883; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:22:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stuart@krivis.com) Received: from carbon (as1-icg-42.apk.net [207.54.186.52]) by junior.apk.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA01128; Sun, 28 Jun 1998 00:21:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806280421.AAA01128@junior.apk.net> From: "Stuart Krivis" Organization: Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, Inc. To: tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, opsys@mail.webspan.net Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 00:16:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Packet Engines - FreeBSD + more Reply-to: stuart@krivis.com In-reply-to: <199806270802.BAA24158@usr08.primenet.com> References: from "Nicole Harrington" at Jun 26, 98 11:05:53 pm X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 27 Jun 98, at 8:02, Terry Lambert wrote: > SPAMmers look for ISP's who don't stop them from sending SPAM, > and for relay hosts otherwise. Either way, the packets coming from maps.vix.com and look for rlytest Will quickly tell you if you need to worry. -- Stuart Krivis stuart@krivis.com [Team APK] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message