From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 00:16:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA10924 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 00:16:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA10918 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 00:16:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA11966; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 03:15:58 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199801040815.DAA11966@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Process wedge in 'inode' In-Reply-To: <199801040636.RAA00409@word.smith.net.au> from Mike Smith at "Jan 4, 98 05:06:00 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 03:15:58 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Mike Smith said: > > Just simultaneously checking out two copies of the kernel source using > 'cvs co sys', I have an interesting situation: > > kingsford:~>ps axlwww > UID PID PPID CPU PRI NI VSZ RSS WCHAN STAT TT TIME COMMAND > 1000 1359 1348 1 -14 0 1356 864 inode D+ v1 0:06.84 cvs co sys > 1000 1366 160 4 -14 0 1356 812 inode D+ v2 0:06.77 cvs co sys > > Neither process is responding to signals, and neither can be killed. > The rest of the system is running as normal... > > This is -current as of 971220. > Yep, as I have said, I broke -current, and *please* expect it to problematical. The issues that I have been working are very complex and tedious, but the end result will be advantageous beyond even what I had expected. I am within a few hours/days of commiting the corrected code, and please back up to code before my commit. I do have test suites that expose the problems, and any usage of the erroneous code will lead to nowhere except frustration. You'll have nothing but trouble with the code, including accumulation of disk blocks, crashes, and file corruption. Please do not use -current right now. I have been working 18Hrs/day on the stuff, even forgoing dates with an extremely attractive female friend of mine, and the approach that I am taking is the shortest path to a quality result. I had posted a notice on the -current mailing list, once the problems were discovered. I'll post a notice on the -current mailing list when the code is fixed. Until then, please do not try to use -current, unless you plan to re-newfs your filesystem anyway :-). -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 00:30:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA11291 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 00:30:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from core.acroal.com (firewall0.acroal.com [209.24.61.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA11231 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 00:28:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@core.acroal.com) Received: from localhost (freebsd@localhost) by core.acroal.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA12519 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 00:28:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@core.acroal.com) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 00:28:20 -0800 (PST) From: FreeBSD Hacker To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: read audio from atapi cd: success! In-Reply-To: <199801040730.IAA08800@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk My cheap ass Goldstar GCD-R580B 8 speed supports the long_read operation (windows audio crap). You can get them at egghead I think, just look for the box that say "Linux Compatible" on the front. On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, Oliver Fromme wrote: > In list.freebsd-hackers you wrote (3 Jan 1998 15:02:07 +0100): > > Well, I managed to put together some code to read audio data from > > ATAPI CDs :) > > Ok. In order to add ATAPI support to tosha, I'll have to buy > an ATAPI CD-ROM drive, I fear... Which of them do support > reading of digital audio? I'd preferably like to hear about > modern drives that can actually be bought. Knowing that some > old doublespeed drive supports it doesn't help, since I won't > be able to buy it anywhere, unfortunately... ;-) > > Regards > Oliver > > PS: If someone wants to reply by private mail, please use the > address "olli@incogni.to". > > PPS: I wouldn't mind if someone wants to donate a CD-ROM drive > (used or new) for free. ;-) > > -- > Oliver Fromme, Leibnizstr. 18-61, 38678 Clausthal, Germany > (Info: finger userinfo:olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de) > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 00:52:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA12097 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 00:52:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA12083 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 00:52:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id IAA17620; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 08:29:42 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199801040729.IAA17620@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: read audio from atapi cd: success! To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 08:29:42 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199801040730.IAA08800@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de> from "Oliver Fromme" at Jan 4, 98 08:30:26 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Ok. In order to add ATAPI support to tosha, I'll have to buy > an ATAPI CD-ROM drive, I fear... Which of them do support > reading of digital audio? I'd preferably like to hear about > modern drives that can actually be bought. Knowing that some > old doublespeed drive supports it doesn't help, since I won't > be able to buy it anywhere, unfortunately... ;-) Let me (and possibly other hackers) work on this to provide better support. I have only tested partially the code on a CDU-55E and CDU331 (both from SONY) and they behave differently, the IDE bus freezes every now and then, etc. When the code is more stable I will try it on more disks to see what capabilities they have. As for a TOSHA port it will be probably trivial to add a small piece of code which invokes the new ioctl to your function readsectors(). This is actually one of the first things I want to do when I have the code up and running... Cheers Luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 01:14:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA13108 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:14:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cc.uq.edu.au (root@dingo.cc.uq.edu.au [130.102.2.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA12908 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:09:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shocking@zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au) Received: from zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au (zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au [203.101.242.9]) by dingo.cc.uq.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA12960 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:08:56 +1000 (GMT+1000) Received: from zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA00504 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:18:39 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from shocking@zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au) Message-Id: <199801040918.TAA00504@zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Memory bandwith and an interesting article Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 19:18:38 +1000 From: Stephen Hocking Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk It basically talks about how the ordering of memory reads can affect the read rate of Intel 486/pentium CPUs., becuase of the read buffer's inability to support mutiple outstanding read transactions. http://www.intelligentfirm.com/membench/index.shtml Stephen From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 01:16:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA13170 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:16:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA13166 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:16:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199801040916.BAA13166@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA147065369; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:16:09 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: SMP-able chips? To: chuckr@glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:16:09 +1100 (EDT) Cc: perlsta@sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Jan 2, 98 12:05:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In some mail from Chuck Robey, sie said: > > On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > Does anyone know if any other x86 chip will work in a 2 processor > > enviornment? > > like the AMD K6 or the Cyrix M2 > > I can't answer the second question, but as to the first, all motherboards > available today use the Intel Apic design, not the OpenApic design that > the cpus other than Intel implement. The meaning to that is, if it's not > an Intel CPU, you're not going to run SMP with it. Does this include th ASUS motherboard which takes the CPU daughterboards ? Darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 01:50:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA14478 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:50:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA14474 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:50:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA11609; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:49:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199801040949.BAA11609@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Stephen Hocking cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Memory bandwith and an interesting article In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Jan 1998 19:18:38 +1000." <199801040918.TAA00504@zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 01:49:44 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > It basically talks about how the ordering of memory reads can affect > the read rate of Intel 486/pentium CPUs., becuase of the read buffer's > inability to support mutiple outstanding read transactions. > > http://www.intelligentfirm.com/membench/index.shtml > > Stephen > > Well, if someone decides to spend $20 for membench and can explain exactly how we can improve memory read / writes I will be delighted to hear about it 8) Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 02:14:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA16184 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 02:14:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA16162; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 02:14:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id LAA09862; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:14:02 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id LAA17951; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:05:21 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980104110521.14399@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:05:21 +0100 From: J Wunsch To: Greg Lehey Cc: Brian Somers , John-Mark Gurney , freebsd-bugs@hub.freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kern/5404: slXX slip (tun & ppp) interfaces always point to point Reply-To: Joerg Wunsch References: <199801010130.RAA10049@hub.freebsd.org> <199801011325.NAA17803@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> <19980102105504.61189@lemis.com> <19980102102027.41384@uriah.heep.sax.de> <19980104174838.41538@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <19980104174838.41538@lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Sun, Jan 04, 1998 at 05:48:38PM +1030 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Greg Lehey wrote: > I had a discussion about this with a bloke here in Adelaide a couple > of months ago. He runs a large ISP, and he came up with some > plausible reason, but unfortunately I've forgotten the details. It > had to do with Microslop: they use broadcasts a lot, and this would abuse :) > seem to indicate that they expected broadcasts on a /26 subnet, or at > least were prepared to respond to them. So this netmask crap might apply for M$ then -- they still have a long way to be internet-ready. For us, an interface is either IFF_BROADCAST, or IFF_POINTOPOINT, but not both. Thus, the netmask and broadcast addresses of a p2p interface are irrelevant. (If you think about it, both, broadcasting and p2p are mutually exclusive by logic. p2p is always unicasting to just one peer.) > It sounds like you're saying that PPP shouldn't be allowed to set the > default route automatically when the link comes up. No, i was really telling that there should be _only_ the implied host route automatically installed when upping a p2p interface, but no other route. ISTR Brian suggested a second route should be derived from the (bogus) netmask, and installed {too or instead}. So per Brian's suggestion: ifconfig foobar0 1.2.3.4 1.4.5.6 netmask 0xffffff00 would have implied route add 1.4.5.6 -iface foobar0 route add -net 1.4.5.0 -netmask 0xffffff00 1.4.5.6 while the existing behaviour (and what i think is the Right Thing) is only the first of both routes. Installing a default route is always done separately anyway. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 02:24:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA16767 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 02:24:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA16758 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 02:24:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA11922 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 02:23:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199801041023.CAA11922@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD Java Apps? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 02:23:56 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Curious, are people using FreeBSD to develop Java apps ? >From my brief exposure to jdk1.1.5 , Swing, Beans, etc.., it seems that there is enough critical infra-structure to create useful apps also there are plenty of lessons there in OO methodology -- actually Java looks more like a cross-road of OO techniques. This is the have been trying to solve for FreeBSD : Provide or highlight a technology which people can actually use to develop applications. My first venture was to port X to 386bsd 0.0 , then porting of Inteviews, and later on tcl . Must say that neither of those technologies have been sufficient or catalysts for developing applications. So is Java the technology which will launch application development in FreeBSD?? When I am more up to speed on Java , my test target application will be a graphical front-end for my Pilot 8) Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 03:51:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA19803 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 03:51:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA19777 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 03:51:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id MAA11405 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:51:15 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id MAA18280; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:39:08 +0100 (MET) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:39:08 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199801041139.MAA18280@uriah.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.8 Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Organization: Private BSD site, Dresden X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E References: <19980104102759.11459@lemis.com> From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) Subject: Re: Why dump to /var?? X-Original-Newsgroups: local.freebsd.hackers To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Greg Lehey wrote: > Well, one reason not to do this change is the possible symbolic link, > which makes it possible to put /var/crash on some other file system. You could even mount a separate /var/crash. ;-) > The other thing is that savecore almost invariably saves to > /var/crash, so it doesn't add much value. Why? /var/crash always has to be provided as an argument to savecore, there's no reason it could not point to something else. HOWEVER, if you move it somewhere else, make pretty sure you install a `minfree' file. The default installation does this in the /var/crash case (and savecore now finally obeyes it correctly). >> Anyone? Any why not send this error msg to syslogd? > > It's not running at this point. It should be running at this point, i'm going to commit this change. The only case where it's perhaps more useful the other way 'round is a 4 MB only machine (since starting syslogd might clobber the coredump in the swap partition then), but these presumably require a lot of personal tweaking anyway these days, and it's not longer useful to make the default behaviour dependant on a low-mem setup. > Yes, there is some merit in the idea of starting syslogd earlier and > logging *all* the startup messages. There's nothing more except savecore attempting to log anything earlier. Also remember, you need a writable /var before starting syslogd, so syslogging something like the fsck messages is virtually impossible (with the current scheme). I think Poul-Henning has once been playing with a true memory filesystem, this could provide a workaround for this early stage (by offering some pseudo-disk storage that can be reclaimed later). As always: context diffs welcome. ;-) You can argue a lot about what might be better or not, the devil's always in the detail, and playing with this part of the system will quickly turn out to be more than a weekend-only project if you do it right. So it's not whether changes in this area are acceptable or not, but whether someone can be found actually doing these (as opposed to _only_ talking about them). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 04:39:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA22297 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 04:39:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA22290 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 04:39:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (ppp-15.ts-16.nyc.idt.net [169.132.101.87]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA26425; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 08:40:55 GMT Message-Id: <199801040840.IAA26425@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: , "Amancio Hasty" Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 07:11:02 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk At my school: SUNY Tech in New York we use FreeBSD as the programming enviornment for most of our classes, including java, the current port 1.1.5 is awesome so far, the first time i've been able to get the java SDK working on my box at home. the only problem i see honestly, is lack of a visual GUI builder (if one exists please point me there) -Alfred ---------- > From: Amancio Hasty > To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: FreeBSD Java Apps? > Date: Sunday, January 04, 1998 5:23 AM > > > Curious, are people using FreeBSD to develop Java apps ? > > >From my brief exposure to jdk1.1.5 , Swing, Beans, etc.., it seems > that there is enough critical infra-structure to create useful apps > also there are plenty of lessons there in OO methodology -- > actually Java looks more like a cross-road of OO techniques. > > This is the have been trying to solve for FreeBSD : > Provide or highlight a technology which people can actually use > to develop applications. > > My first venture was to port X to 386bsd 0.0 , then > porting of Inteviews, and later on tcl . Must say that neither of > those technologies have been sufficient or catalysts for > developing applications. > > So is Java the technology which will launch application development > in FreeBSD?? > > When I am more up to speed on Java , my test target application will be > a graphical front-end for my Pilot 8) > > Cheers, > Amancio > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 04:41:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA22401 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 04:41:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peedub.muc.de (ns1027.munich.netsurf.de [195.180.235.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA22397 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 04:41:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garyj@peedub.muc.de) Received: from peedub.muc.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by peedub.muc.de (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA00536 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:41:51 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <199801041241.NAA00536@peedub.muc.de> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Process wedge in 'inode' Reply-To: Gary Jennejohn In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Jan 1998 03:15:58 EST." <199801040815.DAA11966@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 13:41:51 +0100 From: Gary Jennejohn Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk "John S. Dyson" writes: >I had posted a notice on the -current mailing list, once the problems were >discovered. I'll post a notice on the -current mailing list when the >code is fixed. Until then, please do not try to use -current, unless you >plan to re-newfs your filesystem anyway :-). > this seems a little extreme, John. I'm running a -current kernel from today with $Id: ufs_readwrite.c,v 1.38 1997/12/29 01:03:50 dyson Exp $ and it's just fine. The worst breakage was fixed in 1.37 to ufs_readwrite.c, seems to me. Just my experience. --- Gary Jennejohn Home - garyj@muc.de Work - garyj@fkr.dec.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 05:03:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA24220 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 05:03:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA24169 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 05:03:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA00993; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 05:03:39 -0800 (PST) To: "Alfred Perlstein" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, "Amancio Hasty" Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Jan 1998 07:11:02 EST." <199801040840.IAA26425@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 05:03:39 -0800 Message-ID: <989.883919019@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > the only problem i see honestly, is lack of a visual GUI builder (if one > exists please point me there) /usr/ports/devel/SpecTcl Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 05:55:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA28616 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 05:55:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from al.imforei.apana.org.au (al.imforei.apana.org.au [202.12.89.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA28612 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 05:55:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pjchilds@al.imforei.apana.org.au) Received: (from pjchilds@localhost) by al.imforei.apana.org.au (beBop) id AAA01718; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 00:21:32 +1030 (CST) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 00:21:32 +1030 (CST) From: Peter Childs Message-Id: <199801041351.AAA01718@al.imforei.apana.org.au> To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-Reply-To: <199801041023.CAA11922@rah.star-gate.com> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-971224 (UNIX) (FreeBSD/2.2-STABLE (i386)) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In article <199801041023.CAA11922@rah.star-gate.com> you wrote: > When I am more up to speed on Java , my test target application will be > a graphical front-end for my Pilot 8) Grin. Now you mention that, and with all this enthusiasm about the "Sparc Port", I'll have to look at porting FreeBSD to the Apple Newton MessagePad 2000! *hehehe* Peter -- Peter Childs - finger pjchilds@al.imforei.apana.org.au for PGP public key We are FreeBSD, resistance is related to current and voltage... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 06:09:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA29757 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 06:09:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from grunt.vl.net.ua (daemon@grunt.vl.net.ua [193.124.76.209]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA29485 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 06:04:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from news@grunt.vl.net.ua) Received: from news by grunt.vl.net.ua with local (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xopnc-00053r-00; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:09:04 +0200 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: diff: Additional login capability Date: 4 Jan 1998 15:09:03 +0200 Message-ID: <68o1lf$ivu$1@grunt.vl.net.ua> X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA 970930; i386 FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE] X-Via: News-To-Mail v1.0 From: Vladimir Litovka Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hello! There is diff to /usr/src/usr.bin/login below. It adds shell arguments processing to login, i.e. you can use arguments in shell field of /etc/passwd. For example: doka::1001:1001::0:0:Vladimir Litovka:/home/doka:/usr/local/bin/bash -r uusys::2001:66::0:0:UUCP for sys:/var/spool/uucppublic:/etc/uucp/uudo sys This ability must be activated by defining LOGIN_SHELL_ARGS in Makefile (this already done in diff) Please, mail your comments to doka@grunt.vl.net.ua Thank you. ============= Cut here ============== diff -c -r login/Makefile login.new/Makefile *** login/Makefile Sun Jan 4 12:37:47 1998 --- login.new/Makefile Sun Jan 4 14:28:29 1998 *************** *** 10,15 **** --- 10,17 ---- #Warning: requires src/libexec/login_* auth modules #LC_AUTH=-DLOGIN_CAP_AUTH CFLAGS+=-DSKEY -DLOGIN_ACCESS -DLOGALL -DLOGIN_CAP $(LC_AUTH) + # Comment out to disable shell arguments processing + CFLAGS+=-DLOGIN_SHELL_ARGS .if defined(KLOGIN_PARANOID) CFLAGS+=-DKLOGIN_PARANOID diff -c -r login/README login.new/README *** login/README Sun Jan 4 12:37:47 1998 --- login.new/README Sun Jan 4 14:24:35 1998 *************** *** 1,3 **** --- 1,13 ---- + This login has shell arguments processing. To activate this capability you + must define LOGIN_SHELL_ARGS and safely use arguments in shell field of + /etc/passwd + + For example: + + doka::1001:1001::0:0:Vladimir Litovka:/home/doka:/usr/local/bin/bash -r + + -Vladimir Litovka + This login has additional functionalities. They are all based on (part of) Wietse Venema's logdaemon package. diff -c -r login/login.c login.new/login.c *** login/login.c Sun Jan 4 12:37:47 1998 --- login.new/login.c Sun Jan 4 12:25:05 1998 *************** *** 172,177 **** --- 172,180 ---- #ifdef SKEY int permit_passwd = 0; #endif /* SKEY */ + #ifdef LOGIN_SHELL_ARGS + char **ap, *av[256]; + #endif (void)signal(SIGALRM, timedout); (void)alarm(timeout); *************** *** 800,806 **** --- 803,822 ---- tbuf[0] = '-'; (void)strcpy(tbuf + 1, (p = strrchr(pwd->pw_shell, '/')) ? p + 1 : pwd->pw_shell); + #ifdef LOGIN_SHELL_ARGS + av[0]=tbuf; + if (p = strpbrk(tbuf, " \t")) { + *p = NULL; /* Cut argv[0] */ + /* Omit shell and start at first argument */ + p = strpbrk(shell, " \t"); + *p++ = NULL; /* Cut arguments (for execvp), jump to next char */ + for (ap = &av[1]; (*ap = strsep(&p, " \t")) != NULL; ) + if (**ap != NULL) ap++; + } + execvp(shell, av); + #else execlp(shell, tbuf, 0); + #endif err(1, "%s", shell); } ============= Cut here ============== -- Vladimir Litovka , hostmaster of vl.net.ua ---------------- Don't trouble trouble until trouble troubles you From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 09:24:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA08487 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 09:24:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA08474 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 09:24:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id RAA18075; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:01:09 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199801041601.RAA18075@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: wd/wcd/atapi problems To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:01:09 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Since I have been looking at this code recently... there is a number of problems in the wd/wcd/atapi drivers, and I am wondering if someone is looking at them. A brief list follows: (wd) kernel looping at high priority this just happened to me: I had a partition mounted on wd2, and the disk went idle. Then I did "umount /mnt", and while the disk was spinning up (and I got a wd2: interrupt timeout) the system had become completely unresponsive (mouse disappears, etc.) I only suspect that the reason is some code spinning at high priority, but haven't investigated further. Fortunately the wd driver has a watchdog... (wcd) no watchdog function as the title says, there is probably no watchdog on wcd (ATAPI) units. This is problematic since problems on a unit will block the whole controller (including the primary disk on most of my machines), and ATAPI implementations tend to be not all the same (plus, our driver is certainly not perfect: e.g. with a stock 2.2.1 atapi a dd from a data CD often hangs, depending on how badly i screwed up the drive with the previous kernel; I have to cycle power to bring the device back to regular operation. I am not even sure if the watchdog in the wd driver is implemented properly. A comment in the code says it should be per controller, not per drive, and there might be some strange interaction when a drive(r) is not informed of a reset issued to its controller because of a timeout on the other drive. (atapi) potentially long (3ms) delays in atapi_wait_cmd this routine, called from wdintr, in some cases might take such a long time waiting to send the packet command. Maybe modern drives are fast, but I was wondering, is there a way to temporarily release the cpu within a interrupt driver ? Cheers Luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 09:37:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA09729 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 09:37:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA09717 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 09:37:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.4) with UUCP id RAA19768; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:34:29 GMT Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:22:04 GMT X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199801040840.IAA26425@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:23:23 +0000 To: "Alfred Perlstein" From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? Cc: , "Amancio Hasty" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk At 12:11 pm +0000 4/1/98, Alfred Perlstein wrote: >At my school: SUNY Tech in New York we use FreeBSD as the programming >enviornment for most of our classes, including java, the current port 1.1.5 >is awesome so far, the first time i've been able to get the java SDK >working on my box at home. > >the only problem i see honestly, is lack of a visual GUI builder (if one >exists please point me there) http://www.ist.co.uk/visaj/ but it's not free. -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 09:46:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA10506 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 09:46:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iafnl.es.iaf.nl (uucp@iafnl.es.iaf.nl [195.108.17.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA10478 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 09:46:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA32720 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:46:09 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id OAA00895; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:46:52 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199801041346.OAA00895@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Process wedge in 'inode' To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:46:52 +0100 (MET) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801040815.DAA11966@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Jan 4, 98 03:15:58 am X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As John S. Dyson wrote... > Mike Smith said: > > > > Just simultaneously checking out two copies of the kernel source using > > 'cvs co sys', I have an interesting situation: > > > > kingsford:~>ps axlwww > > UID PID PPID CPU PRI NI VSZ RSS WCHAN STAT TT TIME COMMAND > > 1000 1359 1348 1 -14 0 1356 864 inode D+ v1 0:06.84 cvs co sys > > 1000 1366 160 4 -14 0 1356 812 inode D+ v2 0:06.77 cvs co sys > > > > Neither process is responding to signals, and neither can be killed. > > The rest of the system is running as normal... > > > > This is -current as of 971220. > > > Yep, as I have said, I broke -current, and *please* expect it to problematical. > The issues that I have been working are very complex and tedious, but the > end result will be advantageous beyond even what I had expected. I am > within a few hours/days of commiting the corrected code, and please back up to > code before my commit. I do have test suites that expose the problems, and > any usage of the erroneous code will lead to nowhere except frustration. > > You'll have nothing but trouble with the code, including accumulation of > disk blocks, crashes, and file corruption. Please do not use -current right > now. I have been working 18Hrs/day on the stuff, even forgoing dates with > an extremely attractive female friend of mine, and the approach that I Oh oh... This is really getting out of hand... ;-) (could not resist..) _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' ---------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net]BSD Unix ------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 10:08:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA12039 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:08:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA11590; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:02:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA04727; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:29:33 GMT (envelope-from brian@gate.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199801041629.QAA04727@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Joerg Wunsch cc: Greg Lehey , Brian Somers , John-Mark Gurney , freebsd-bugs@hub.freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kern/5404: slXX slip (tun & ppp) interfaces always point to point In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Jan 1998 11:05:21 +0100." <19980104110521.14399@uriah.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 16:29:33 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk [.....] > other route. ISTR Brian suggested a second route should be derived > from the (bogus) netmask, and installed {too or instead}. So per > Brian's suggestion: > > ifconfig foobar0 1.2.3.4 1.4.5.6 netmask 0xffffff00 > > would have implied > > route add 1.4.5.6 -iface foobar0 > route add -net 1.4.5.0 -netmask 0xffffff00 1.4.5.6 > > while the existing behaviour (and what i think is the Right Thing) is > only the first of both routes. Not quite. I was suggesting that instead of the first, we have the second, or in fact route add 1.2.3.4 -netmask 0xffffff00 1.4.5.6 If you specify a 0xffffffff netmask, you get the same as the existing stuff *always* does. The real purpose, as you've already suggested, is that you get the associated broadcast address. With this broadcast address, all sorts of other things work (timed, rwhod, nmbd etc.), assuming that you've got a proxy arp setup on the other end. Of course, this implies that the destination address isn't actually required - as with a real network. So, what if we had ifconfig tun0 inet 1.2.3.4 netmask 0xffffff00 (note the lack of a dst address). This would mean that we could specify tunX (or slX or pppX) as being a non-point-to-point. The automatic route would be created exactly as with networks. So, to summarise (and refine my original suggestion), I think we should be allowed to specify *either* a dst address *or* a netmask. If both are specified, you get no netmask - as things currently work. Whaddaya think ? [.....] > -- > cheers, J"org > > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE > Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 10:12:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA12424 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:12:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA12347 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:12:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA04242; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:12:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA19119; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:12:08 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:12:08 -0700 Message-Id: <199801041812.LAA19119@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Amancio Hasty Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-Reply-To: <199801041023.CAA11922@rah.star-gate.com> References: <199801041023.CAA11922@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Curious, are people using FreeBSD to develop Java apps ? I just 'ported' OrbixWeb3.0 to FreeBSD yesterday, and my company uses Java/CORBA for our primary line of business. My results convinced my boss to upgrade his older FreeBSD 2.1 box to 2.2 so he could do Java development on it, so I'm in the process of upgrading it. IMHO, the *biggest* problem with the current JDK is using LessTif. I have *nothing* but problems all over the place when I use the lessTif version, but if I replace the LessTif shared library with the Motif shared library most of those things work again. Unfortunately, other things break with linkage errors. What I'd like to see if the diffs so I can roll my own release with Motif, and then possibly figure out a way to release it publically, since the bug are easy to run into with any significant applications. > >From my brief exposure to jdk1.1.5 , Swing, Beans, etc.., it seems > that there is enough critical infra-structure to create useful apps > also there are plenty of lessons there in OO methodology -- I am very pro-Java, and this is after using it consistanly for 13 months solid. The last 9 months has been full-time Java programming, and while I dislike the 'Java of the day' problems that plague our software and the inability of 3rd party vendors to keep up, I do like the direction they are headed. > So is Java the technology which will launch application development > in FreeBSD?? I doubt it. But, Java could be the technology that allows applications to actually run under FreeBSD, irregardless of whether or not they were developed there or not. Plus, it allows FreeBSD folks to develop applications for Win32/Solaris/NC's and the like while still leveraging all of the knowledge and familiarity with unix/FreeBSD development. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 10:51:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA14777 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:51:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA14744; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:51:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id TAA17725; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:51:04 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id TAA19192; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:31:38 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980104193137.01479@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:31:37 +0100 From: J Wunsch To: Brian Somers Cc: Greg Lehey , John-Mark Gurney , freebsd-bugs@hub.freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kern/5404: slXX slip (tun & ppp) interfaces always point to point Reply-To: Joerg Wunsch References: <19980104110521.14399@uriah.heep.sax.de> <199801041629.QAA04727@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <199801041629.QAA04727@awfulhak.demon.co.uk>; from Brian Somers on Sun, Jan 04, 1998 at 04:29:33PM +0000 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Brian Somers wrote: > Not quite. I was suggesting that instead of the first, we have the > second, or in fact > > route add 1.2.3.4 -netmask 0xffffff00 1.4.5.6 > > If you specify a 0xffffffff netmask, you get the same as the existing > stuff *always* does. However, since most people don't bother messing with the netmask on p2p interfaces at all (why should they), they'll always catch the default netmask, so the above will violate the principle of least surprise for them (configurations that used to work would no longer work). > The real purpose, as you've already suggested, is that you get the > associated broadcast address. With this broadcast address, all sorts > of other things work (timed, rwhod, nmbd etc.), assuming that you've > got a proxy arp setup on the other end. Proxy arp is a hack. We shouldn't encourage using hacks. If people are interested in using hacks, they should have more work to be done than those who are interested in clean setups. (Sure, like all hacks, there are situations why proxy arp can be useful. vfork() is another example of a useful hack. Recommending proxy arp as a general method is ugly. Setup correct IP routing instead.) > Of course, this implies that the destination address isn't actually > required - as with a real network. `Real' networks have broadcast addresses, but aren't point-to-point. `Real' networks can't share the same local adress for different interfaces, p2p interfaces can. `Real' networks have native broadcasting, p2p interfaces don't. p2p interfaces always connect to just one remote address, that's why they are called by this name. ;) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 11:05:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA15644 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:05:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA15633 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:04:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xov8i-0004g7-00; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:51:12 -0800 Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:50:31 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Darren Reed cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SMP-able chips? In-Reply-To: <199801040916.BAA13166@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, Darren Reed wrote: > > I can't answer the second question, but as to the first, all motherboards > > available today use the Intel Apic design, not the OpenApic design that > > the cpus other than Intel implement. The meaning to that is, if it's not > > an Intel CPU, you're not going to run SMP with it. > > Does this include th ASUS motherboard which takes the CPU daughterboards ? Definitely. Perhaps ASUS could make a daughtercard with OpenAPIC design (or is the APIC on the motherboard not the daughtercard?). > Darren Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 11:19:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA16492 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:19:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA16448 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:19:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA10336; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:17:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:17:04 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@localhost To: Darren Reed cc: perlsta@sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SMP-able chips? In-Reply-To: <199801040916.EAA10365@po2.glue.umd.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, Darren Reed wrote: > In some mail from Chuck Robey, sie said: > > > > On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > > > Does anyone know if any other x86 chip will work in a 2 processor > > > enviornment? > > > like the AMD K6 or the Cyrix M2 > > > > I can't answer the second question, but as to the first, all motherboards > > available today use the Intel Apic design, not the OpenApic design that > > the cpus other than Intel implement. The meaning to that is, if it's not > > an Intel CPU, you're not going to run SMP with it. > > Does this include th ASUS motherboard which takes the CPU daughterboards ? As far as I am aware, there is not one single motherboard on the market today that implements the OpenApic. I haven't done a thorough check recently, but understand that the OpenApic and the Intel Apic aren't compatible ... if you were a motherboard manufacturer (this only applies to SMP) which would YOU build in? There was a nice paper from IBM that described the differences, but I lost it 3 months back when my main system dived on me. > > Darren > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 11:45:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA18342 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:45:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA18327 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:45:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA13311; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:45:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199801041945.LAA13311@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Nate Williams cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Jan 1998 11:12:08 MST." <199801041812.LAA19119@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 11:45:15 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Curious, are people using FreeBSD to develop Java apps ? > > I just 'ported' OrbixWeb3.0 to FreeBSD yesterday, and my company uses > Java/CORBA for our primary line of business. My results convinced my > boss to upgrade his older FreeBSD 2.1 box to 2.2 so he could do Java > development on it, so I'm in the process of upgrading it. > > IMHO, the *biggest* problem with the current JDK is using LessTif. I Thats a temporary problem and as you well stated as soon as the diffs come out we will be to get over it . > > So is Java the technology which will launch application development > > in FreeBSD?? > > I doubt it. But, Java could be the technology that allows applications > to actually run under FreeBSD, irregardless of whether or not they were > developed there or not. Plus, it allows FreeBSD folks to develop > applications for Win32/Solaris/NC's and the like while still leveraging > all of the knowledge and familiarity with unix/FreeBSD development. Curious, why do you think people don't like developing applications for FreeBSD? Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 11:58:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA19526 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:58:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA19517 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:58:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA04845; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:58:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA19427; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:58:48 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:58:48 -0700 Message-Id: <199801041958.MAA19427@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Amancio Hasty Cc: Nate Williams , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-Reply-To: <199801041945.LAA13311@rah.star-gate.com> References: <199801041812.LAA19119@mt.sri.com> <199801041945.LAA13311@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > I doubt it. But, Java could be the technology that allows applications > > to actually run under FreeBSD, irregardless of whether or not they were > > developed there or not. Plus, it allows FreeBSD folks to develop > > applications for Win32/Solaris/NC's and the like while still leveraging > > all of the knowledge and familiarity with unix/FreeBSD development. > > Curious, why do you think people don't like developing applications > for FreeBSD? There's very little money in it. I've seen too many people attempt to make commercial products in the 'free' market for too long fall on their face. The only 'big winners' in the free market have been people who sell the actual hardware we run on (PC's), and people who sell software to developers (the only example I can think of are XInside, who sell a high-performance X server and Motif.) Other than that, I don't see much of a market for any kind of application, since most of the folks who use FreeBSD either already know what they are using it for, or are developers themselves and have little use for applications. That's not to say there isn't a *very* small market, but it's not enough to make anyone rich or famous, or even allow them to 'get back' the time and effort they would spend to make something truly significant. It's just easier to give away something and get more satisfaction from doing that than to try to make a buck. So, because there isn't a whole lot of motivation for creating a 'killer app' just for FreeBSD due to the small market, it doesn't make a lot of sense to develop a product just for FreeBSD. Now, as I stated before, you can *use* FreeBSD to develop a 'killer app', but that application shouldn't be FreeBSD-centric if you want to be successful. Nate and anything you give away is going to take alot less time to develop From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 11:59:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA19571 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:59:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA19560 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:59:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00927; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:59:00 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199801041959.OAA00927@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-Reply-To: from Bob Bishop at "Jan 4, 98 05:23:23 pm" To: rb@gid.co.uk (Bob Bishop) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:59:00 -0500 (EST) Cc: perlsta@sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Bob Bishop said: > At 12:11 pm +0000 4/1/98, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > >At my school: SUNY Tech in New York we use FreeBSD as the programming > >enviornment for most of our classes, including java, the current port 1.1.5 > >is awesome so far, the first time i've been able to get the java SDK > >working on my box at home. > > > >the only problem i see honestly, is lack of a visual GUI builder (if one > >exists please point me there) > > http://www.ist.co.uk/visaj/ but it's not free. > Have you tried SpecTCL? It looks like it supports Java and Perl also. I have heard that it is not everything that VB is, but it is available freely from Sun. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 12:01:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA19741 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:01:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA19695 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:00:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA00937; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:00:08 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199801042000.PAA00937@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Process wedge in 'inode' In-Reply-To: <199801041241.NAA00536@peedub.muc.de> from Gary Jennejohn at "Jan 4, 98 01:41:51 pm" To: garyj@muc.de Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:00:08 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Gary Jennejohn said: > > this seems a little extreme, John. I'm running a -current kernel from > today with $Id: ufs_readwrite.c,v 1.38 1997/12/29 01:03:50 dyson Exp $ > and it's just fine. > > The worst breakage was fixed in 1.37 to ufs_readwrite.c, seems to me. > > Just my experience. > I am really trying to warn people that using it in any kind of production is likely to cause severe problems. If it works okay for you, then be gentle to it :-). -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 12:08:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA20429 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:08:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from unix.tfs.net (as1-p62.tfs.net [139.146.210.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA20415 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:08:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id OAA06076 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:07:59 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199801042007.OAA06076@unix.tfs.net> Subject: revisionist advertising To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:07:58 -0600 (CST) Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Thu Jan 1 19:03:58 CST 1998 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk just saw a revisionist ad for NASDAQ during the Green Bay game... "They invented the router ... Now Cisco Systems routers and equipment run the Internet" jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 12:30:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA22031 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:30:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA22012 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:30:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA13497; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:29:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199801042029.MAA13497@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Nate Williams cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Jan 1998 12:58:48 MST." <199801041958.MAA19427@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 12:29:40 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Thats interesting however I would imagine that there is at least a small percentage of developers that will be willing to write applications. We can start by defining small target goals for instance in my case I like my Pilot however I hate to run Win95 to just interface to my Pilot. On a slightly bigger scale what we need is an application architect which can create an architecture such that tasks can be broken down to re-usable components similar to Java Beans. Cheers, Amancio > > > I doubt it. But, Java could be the technology that allows applications > > > to actually run under FreeBSD, irregardless of whether or not they were > > > developed there or not. Plus, it allows FreeBSD folks to develop > > > applications for Win32/Solaris/NC's and the like while still leveraging > > > all of the knowledge and familiarity with unix/FreeBSD development. > > > > Curious, why do you think people don't like developing applications > > for FreeBSD? > > There's very little money in it. I've seen too many people attempt to > make commercial products in the 'free' market for too long fall on their > face. The only 'big winners' in the free market have been people who > sell the actual hardware we run on (PC's), and people who sell software > to developers (the only example I can think of are XInside, who sell a > high-performance X server and Motif.) > > Other than that, I don't see much of a market for any kind of > application, since most of the folks who use FreeBSD either already know > what they are using it for, or are developers themselves and have little > use for applications. That's not to say there isn't a *very* small > market, but it's not enough to make anyone rich or famous, or even allow > them to 'get back' the time and effort they would spend to make > something truly significant. It's just easier to give away something > and get more satisfaction from doing that than to try to make a buck. > > So, because there isn't a whole lot of motivation for creating a 'killer > app' just for FreeBSD due to the small market, it doesn't make a lot of > sense to develop a product just for FreeBSD. Now, as I stated before, > you can *use* FreeBSD to develop a 'killer app', but that application > shouldn't be FreeBSD-centric if you want to be successful. > > > Nate > and anything you give away is going to take alot less time to develop From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 12:52:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA24065 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:52:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA24024; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:51:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA07686; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:47:49 GMT (envelope-from brian@gate.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199801042047.UAA07686@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Joerg Wunsch cc: Brian Somers , Greg Lehey , John-Mark Gurney , freebsd-bugs@hub.freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kern/5404: slXX slip (tun & ppp) interfaces always point to point In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Jan 1998 19:31:37 +0100." <19980104193137.01479@uriah.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 20:47:49 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk [.....] > `Real' networks have broadcast addresses, but aren't point-to-point. > `Real' networks can't share the same local adress for different > interfaces, p2p interfaces can. `Real' networks have native > broadcasting, p2p interfaces don't. p2p interfaces always connect to > just one remote address, that's why they are called by this name. ;) Ok, I'm convinced. I'll change ifconfig so that it doesn't bother showing the netmask if the POINTOPOINT flag is there. > -- > cheers, J"org > > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE > Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 13:01:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA24890 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:01:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA24774 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:59:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA02920; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:03:45 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199801042103.IAA02920@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-Reply-To: <199801042029.MAA13497@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Jan 4, 98 12:29:40 pm" To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:03:45 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty wrote: > We can start by defining small target goals for instance in my case I like > my Pilot however I hate to run Win95 to just interface to my Pilot. Umm, what is your "Pilot"? Regards, -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@netbsd.org; jb@freebsd.org CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 13:10:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA25757 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:10:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thelab.hub.org (slip-33.acadiau.ca [131.162.2.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA25723 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:10:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.8.8/8.8.2) with SMTP id RAA10681 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:10:28 -0400 (AST) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:10:28 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Wine 980104 assembler error Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi... When compiling Wine 980104, I get the following error: gcc -c -o commdlg.o commdlg.s commdlg.s: Assembler messages: commdlg.s:156: Error: Unknown pseudo-op: `.string' *** Error code 1 Which I'm is: DLLName: .string "COMMDLG\0" .align 4 .globl _COMMDLG_Descriptor Now, I don't know assembler, which is what this is (right?) ... what should this be under FreeBSD? Is there an equivalent? Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 13:20:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA26402 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:20:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA26386 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:20:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA14233; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:19:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199801042119.NAA14233@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: John Birrell cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 05 Jan 1998 08:03:45 +1100." <199801042103.IAA02920@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 13:19:58 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk 3Com's Palm Pilot --- a pocket shirt size electronic organizer. There is low level support for the Palm Pilot: ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/comms/pilot-link Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 14:09:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA00377 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:09:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hammer.ipaper.com (hammer.ipaper.com [206.98.137.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA00363 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:09:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from hot_nt (node13.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.13]) by hammer.ipaper.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA00249 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:10:08 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980104200617.009005a0@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 20:08:29 -0300 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Capriotti Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I have the feeling that maybe someone lost the point here... Java's genious is being a cross-platform language, theoretically HW free, so, the point is not if someone is interested on writhing killer apps for FreeBSD, but if someone wants to create a Killer app using Java, which will be able to run in any platform/computer. Then, when this application exists, we will be able to face Mr. Gates, since we will be able to offer customers a *very good* choice: "What do you want, Mr. Customer: a 1000 bucks (that's avrg price for NT server here in Brazil, boys) operating system on your machine, which is well known by system crashes, or a Free OS that is rock stable, faster, needs less HW power, among other advantages ?" The decision will then be in our hands, since it makes no difference to the customer, except for the money issue, of course, hehehe. At 12:58 PM 1/4/98 -0700, you wrote: >> > I doubt it. But, Java could be the technology that allows applications >> > to actually run under FreeBSD, irregardless of whether or not they were >> > developed there or not. Plus, it allows FreeBSD folks to develop >> > applications for Win32/Solaris/NC's and the like while still leveraging >> > all of the knowledge and familiarity with unix/FreeBSD development. >> >> Curious, why do you think people don't like developing applications >> for FreeBSD? > >There's very little money in it. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 14:10:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA00439 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:10:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA00433 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:10:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id XAA20711 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:09:59 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id XAA21347; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:06:14 +0100 (MET) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:06:14 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199801042206.XAA21347@uriah.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.8 Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Organization: Private BSD site, Dresden X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E References: From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) Subject: Re: Wine 980104 assembler error X-Original-Newsgroups: local.freebsd.hackers To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk The Hermit Hacker wrote: > Now, I don't know assembler, which is what this is (right?) ... > what should this be under FreeBSD? Is there an equivalent? j@uriah 321% /usr/libexec/cc1 -quiet char foo[] = "hello, world!"; ^D .file "gccdump" gcc2_compiled.: ___gnu_compiled_c: ..globl _foo ..data .type _foo,@object .size _foo,14 _foo: .ascii "hello, world!\0" So it seems .ascii is what you're looking for. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 14:12:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA00650 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:12:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thelab.hub.org (slip-33.acadiau.ca [131.162.2.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA00500 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:11:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.8.8/8.8.2) with SMTP id SAA13152 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:10:25 -0400 (AST) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:10:20 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Wine 980104 assembler error In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > Hi... > > When compiling Wine 980104, I get the following error: > > gcc -c -o commdlg.o commdlg.s > commdlg.s: Assembler messages: > commdlg.s:156: Error: Unknown pseudo-op: `.string' > *** Error code 1 > > > Which I'm is: > > DLLName: .string "COMMDLG\0" > .align 4 > .globl _COMMDLG_Descriptor > > Now, I don't know assembler, which is what this is (right?) ... > what should this be under FreeBSD? Is there an equivalent? I think I found the answer, but could someone confirm? From looking at the 'as' info pages, I *think* what I want to use is '.ascii'...is this correct? Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 14:20:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA01526 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:20:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thelab.hub.org (slip-33.acadiau.ca [131.162.2.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA01365 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:18:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.8.8/8.8.2) with SMTP id SAA13332 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:16:56 -0400 (AST) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:16:56 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Wine 980104 assembler error In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > Hi... > > When compiling Wine 980104, I get the following error: > > gcc -c -o commdlg.o commdlg.s > commdlg.s: Assembler messages: > commdlg.s:156: Error: Unknown pseudo-op: `.string' > *** Error code 1 > > > Which I'm is: > > DLLName: .string "COMMDLG\0" > .align 4 > .globl _COMMDLG_Descriptor > > Now, I don't know assembler, which is what this is (right?) ... > what should this be under FreeBSD? Is there an equivalent? I think I found the answer, but could someone confirm? From looking at the 'as' info pages, I *think* what I want to use is '.ascii'...is this correct? Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 15:12:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA05195 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:12:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA05171 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:12:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA14994; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:11:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199801042311.PAA14994@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Capriotti cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Jan 1998 20:08:29 -0300." <3.0.32.19980104200617.009005a0@pop.mpc.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 15:11:23 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Well, you have a very good point and I did a simple test run over here with my win95 box. Went thru the tutorial using Java Workshop and then just copy over the calculator example -- naturally it did not run the first time on my FreeBSD system mostly because I had to bring over the Java Workshop's virtual runtime classes . At this point , I am leaning more towards using Win95 to develop Java applications provided of course that I can still use the applications on FreeBSD. The problem with this approach is that Java development environments are kind of Win95 centric :( The reason for my preferance for Java GUI builders on FreeBSD is that is nice to use X and virtual consoles . Cheers, Amancio > I have the feeling that maybe someone lost the point here... > > Java's genious is being a cross-platform language, theoretically HW free, > so, the point is not if someone is interested on writhing killer apps for > FreeBSD, but if someone wants to create a Killer app using Java, which will > be able to run in any platform/computer. > > Then, when this application exists, we will be able to face Mr. Gates, > since we will be able to offer customers a *very good* choice: > > "What do you want, Mr. Customer: a 1000 bucks (that's avrg price for NT > server here in Brazil, boys) operating system on your machine, which is > well known by system crashes, or a Free OS that is rock stable, faster, > needs less HW power, among other advantages ?" > > The decision will then be in our hands, since it makes no difference to the > customer, except for the money issue, of course, hehehe. > > At 12:58 PM 1/4/98 -0700, you wrote: > >> > I doubt it. But, Java could be the technology that allows applications > >> > to actually run under FreeBSD, irregardless of whether or not they were > >> > developed there or not. Plus, it allows FreeBSD folks to develop > >> > applications for Win32/Solaris/NC's and the like while still leveraging > >> > all of the knowledge and familiarity with unix/FreeBSD development. > >> > >> Curious, why do you think people don't like developing applications > >> for FreeBSD? > > > >There's very little money in it. > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 15:23:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA05792 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:23:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.166.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA05788 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:23:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from se@dialup124.zpr.uni-koeln.de) Received: from dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE (dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.219.124]) by Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA20080; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 00:23:12 +0100 (MET) Received: (from se@localhost) by dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE (8.8.8/8.6.9) id AAA05933; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 00:23:13 +0100 (CET) X-Face: " Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 00:23:13 +0100 From: Stefan Esser To: The Hermit Hacker Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Wine 980104 assembler error References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from The Hermit Hacker on Sun, Jan 04, 1998 at 05:10:28PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On 1998-01-04 17:10 -0400, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > Hi... > > When compiling Wine 980104, I get the following error: > > gcc -c -o commdlg.o commdlg.s > commdlg.s: Assembler messages: > commdlg.s:156: Error: Unknown pseudo-op: `.string' > *** Error code 1 > > > Which I'm is: > > DLLName: .string "COMMDLG\0" > .align 4 > .globl _COMMDLG_Descriptor > > Now, I don't know assembler, which is what this is (right?) ... > what should this be under FreeBSD? Is there an equivalent? You should be able to use .ascii instead of .string. Since the .s files are created from .spec files by "build", you need to replace the two occurances of .string by .ascii in tools/build.c. Regards, STefan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 15:43:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA07072 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:43:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA06796 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:38:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA06199; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:38:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA20203; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:38:27 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:38:27 -0700 Message-Id: <199801042338.QAA20203@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Amancio Hasty Cc: Nate Williams , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-Reply-To: <199801042029.MAA13497@rah.star-gate.com> References: <199801041958.MAA19427@mt.sri.com> <199801042029.MAA13497@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Thats interesting however I would imagine that there is at least > a small percentage of developers that will be willing to write applications. Sure, and they've written them, and then moved them over to other platforms. The P3/P4 guys did that. > We can start by defining small target goals for instance in my case I like > my Pilot however I hate to run Win95 to just interface to my Pilot. There are lots of Pilot programs already in the ports tree. Why re-invent the wheel? > On a slightly bigger scale what we need is an application architect which > can create an architecture such that tasks can be broken down to > re-usable components similar to Java Beans. Who is willing to do that, *AND* find people willing to bite off the tasks he chooses? I help organize 6 professional developers, and even with $$ and a very exciting product we're developing keeping everyone in sync. is difficult Developing a 'significant' applications (which we have few if any for FreeBSD) vs simple applications (which we have a huge number of) is akin to managing a small office where there is no management vs. managing a large office where there requires 'support' staff just to keep the workers busy. Once you get to the point where the overhead becomes great enough that you require a person 'in the middle' to keep things straight it becomes alot less fun and more work, and the people doing the work no longer have as much freedom to do what they want, which is less fun and more work. When it becomes less fun and more work, you must compensate them for that somehow, and the only thing I'm aware of that works effectively for longs periods of time (enough to get the job done) is $$, and there isn't enough in the FreeBSD users ranks to justify developing a FreeBSD-centric application. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 15:57:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA08000 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:57:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from thelab.hub.org (slip-33.acadiau.ca [131.162.2.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA07973; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:56:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.8.8/8.8.2) with SMTP id TAA17049; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:55:19 -0400 (AST) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:55:18 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: Stefan Esser cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Wine 980104 assembler error In-Reply-To: <19980105002313.50740@mi.uni-koeln.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Stefan Esser wrote: > You should be able to use .ascii instead of .string. > > Since the .s files are created from .spec files by "build", > you need to replace the two occurances of .string by .ascii > in tools/build.c. Yup, I had originally just tried to check the 'as' man page, without thinking of the 'as' info page :( I have made the change and submitted patches to the wine developers for this. They are going to add stuff to configure so that it auto-detects whether or not .string or .ascii should be used Marc G. Fournier Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 15:57:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA08046 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:57:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA08034 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:57:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA06333; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:56:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA20294; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:56:57 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:56:57 -0700 Message-Id: <199801042356.QAA20294@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Amancio Hasty Cc: Capriotti , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-Reply-To: <199801042311.PAA14994@rah.star-gate.com> References: <3.0.32.19980104200617.009005a0@pop.mpc.com.br> <199801042311.PAA14994@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > At this point , I am leaning more towards using Win95 to develop Java > applications provided of course that I can still use the > applications on FreeBSD. The problem with this approach is that > Java development environments are kind of Win95 centric :( I've found that although the Win95 stuff is easy to get the GUI up and running quickly, when the application starts to get more 'significant' you end up running into bugs/limitations on the commercial IDE's. We do our initial setup under '95, then once we get the layouts done we move them over to unix and fill them out. This also gives the advantage of using a *real* editor (XEmacs currently blows any integrated editor completely out of the water). Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 16:50:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA12309 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:50:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA12248; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:49:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA22064; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:13:33 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA10930; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:13:32 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980105111332.39295@lemis.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:13:32 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Joerg Wunsch Cc: Brian Somers , John-Mark Gurney , freebsd-bugs@hub.freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kern/5404: slXX slip (tun & ppp) interfaces always point to point References: <19980104110521.14399@uriah.heep.sax.de> <199801041629.QAA04727@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> <19980104193137.01479@uriah.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <19980104193137.01479@uriah.heep.sax.de>; from J Wunsch on Sun, Jan 04, 1998 at 07:31:37PM +0100 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sun, Jan 04, 1998 at 07:31:37PM +0100, J Wunsch wrote: > As Brian Somers wrote: > >> Not quite. I was suggesting that instead of the first, we have the >> second, or in fact >> >> route add 1.2.3.4 -netmask 0xffffff00 1.4.5.6 >> >> If you specify a 0xffffffff netmask, you get the same as the existing >> stuff *always* does. > > However, since most people don't bother messing with the netmask on > p2p interfaces at all (why should they), they'll always catch the > default netmask, so the above will violate the principle of least > surprise for them (configurations that used to work would no longer > work). I don't see what would change with this method. What would it break? The correct behaviour for a ppp interface is to address only the IP at the other end of the line. Add a netmask for pseudo-broadcast, and you're addressing this address and a number of other IPs around it. This works because the other end of the link typically performs packet forwarding. It's not real broadcast, but it's hard to tell the difference. What wouldn't work? >> The real purpose, as you've already suggested, is that you get the >> associated broadcast address. With this broadcast address, all sorts >> of other things work (timed, rwhod, nmbd etc.), assuming that you've >> got a proxy arp setup on the other end. > > Proxy arp is a hack. We shouldn't encourage using hacks. If people > are interested in using hacks, they should have more work to be done > than those who are interested in clean setups. Agreed. > (Sure, like all hacks, there are situations why proxy arp can be > useful. vfork() is another example of a useful hack. Recommending > proxy arp as a general method is ugly. Setup correct IP routing > instead.) The problem is, the Microsoft World uses it, and that's a significant number of the machines that might be involved in such a network. IIRC, proxy arp is needed because NETBEUI can't route. >> Of course, this implies that the destination address isn't actually >> required - as with a real network. > > `Real' networks have broadcast addresses, but aren't point-to-point. You're talking about broadcast networks here. 'Real' networks can be built out of p2p links. This is still the way the Internet works: broadcast network hardware is almost always local. > `Real' networks can't share the same local adress for different > interfaces, p2p interfaces can. What do you mean by that? Of course they can, they just need to be on different networks, like p2p interfaces are. > `Real' networks have native broadcasting, p2p interfaces don't. You're talking about Ethernet again. > p2p interfaces always connect to just one remote address, that's why > they are called by this name. ;) Well, it's not the address, it's the interface. It could have multiple IPs :-) I don't really understand what the purpose of this discussion is. I am concerned that we're making changes in the name of "purity" which don't bring us any particular advantage, and which could bring disadvantages. For example, take a look in the FreeBSD network book. Which one? Oh yes, we don't have one. OK, take Stevens, or Nemeth and Co., or Craig Hunt, or one of the many excellent books on UNIX networking. They all apply pretty well. Be a moderately informed user, and set up a network with a moderately informed ISP. Get one like mine who insists on a net mask of 0xffffffc0. Ignore him, he's harmless. So far, everything works. Those who understand the matter know that the funny netmask is really just a superstition, but who cares? All that changes when we start changing the behaviour of the system. For example, look at page 411 of Nemeth & Co: "Other local customs, such as the interface subnet mask, should be applied as well". Go looking for a net mask with ifconfig. Where's it gone? Unnecessary confusion. The kernel data structures still maintain a net mask for p2p interfaces. Not showing it isn't the answer. A better way to handle the problem would be to set it to 0xffffffff by default, and allow changing it if absolutely required. In the latter case, I can't see why it shouldn't imply a "broadcast network" of a size corresponding to the netmask, and enter a route it. If you want, you can issue a message saying what you've done, and that this isn't a real broadcast network. It would make interoperabilitiy a whole lot easier. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 17:47:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA16863 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:47:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whqvax.picker.com (whqvax.picker.com [144.54.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA16809 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:46:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rhh@ct.picker.com) Received: from ct.picker.com by whqvax.picker.com with SMTP; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:45:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from elmer.ct.picker.com by ct.picker.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12796; Sun, 4 Jan 98 20:45:27 EST Received: by elmer.ct.picker.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id UAA02652; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:44:36 -0500 Message-Id: <19980104204435.18522@ct.picker.com> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:44:35 -0500 From: Randall Hopper To: Kapil Chowksey Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Slow lnc0 Solved (was Re: (?) lnc0: Transmit underflow error -- Resetting) References: <19971223230921.57532@netwalk.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81 In-Reply-To: <19971223230921.57532@netwalk.com>; from abc@netwalk.com on Tue, Dec 23, 1997 at 11:09:21PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Kapil Chowksey: |Randall Hopper: | |I'm trying to do transfers of a large amount of data between my FreeBSD | |3.0-971208-SNAP box with a NE2100 Lance card and a Linux 2.0.32 box with an | |NE2000. | | | |My effective transfer rate is measely 1.6kbytes per second over a 10Mbps | |ethernet with FTP, and I'm getting loads of these in the FreeBSD error log: | |Ditto here. I have a PCI based NE2100 card (lnc1) on an HP Vectra |pentium 200Mhz class PC which gives equally pathetic performance (both |under 2.2.5-RELEASE and 3.0-971208-SNAP) while ftp'ing to any other |host (Solaris, HPUX, EtherExpress Linux's, ed0 based FreeBSDs). | |It seems that packet sizes greater than 738 get delayed by 1-2 seconds |in the driver itself ! After chasing this one a while, I narrowed the culprit down to one of the settings in my Award BIOS: CHIPSET GLOBAL FEATURES Anybody know more specifically what this option selects? Flipping this from ENABLED to DISABLED did the trick. When ENABLED, my NIC yields 1.5-16 KBytes/sec transfer rate. When DISABLED, it gives the 1100 KBytes/sec it's supposed to. I had this enabled since it was enabled by default in prior P55T2P4 Award BIOS versions and ASUS docs. I note that it is now disabled in the 205 BIOS rev. defaults. Probably something to due with DMA as: I see this slowdown in multiple OSs, an NE2000 clone (IRQ, no DMA) works fine in the same slot on the same IRQ (multiple OSs), and I found a DejaNews post of a Gravis Ultrasound owner failing to get Ultrasound DMA working unless this this option was disabled. (For the archives, my NIC is an Allied Telesyn AT1500 PCnet-ISA (79C960) Bus-mastering ISA card. Configuration: 0x300-0x317 irq 12 drq 7 on isa) Thanks in advance for any enlightenment. Randall Hopper From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 17:48:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA17057 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:48:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wcc.wcc.net (wcc.wcc.net [208.6.232.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA17032 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:48:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from detlev!joelh@wcc.wcc.net) Received: from detlev.UUCP (ppp87.wcc.net [208.6.232.87]) by wcc.wcc.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA17206; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:45:02 -0600 (CST) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.8.8/8.8.7) id TAA01486; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:47:58 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:47:58 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199801050147.TAA01486@detlev.UUCP> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Emacs copyright update abilities From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Just a New Year's reminder to all those who use Emacs... If you want to have Emacs remind you when a file's copyright (if it exists) is out of date, you can include: (add-hook 'write-file-hooks 'copyright-update) (setq copyright-query t) in your .emacs file. This will cause Emacs to search the top 2000 characters for a copyright notice (including the TeX @copyright{}, octal 251, and I believe the troff copyright char), and if found, ensure that the current year is listed, and prompt you for permission to update it if necessary. This occurs on the first save of any file. This works on at least recent (last 8 months) GNU Emacs 19 releases and all GNU Emacs 20 releases. Happy hacking, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 18:10:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA18879 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:10:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA18852 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:10:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA04215; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:01:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd004211; Sun Jan 4 18:01:50 1998 Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:58:44 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Mike Smith cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Process wedge in 'inode' In-Reply-To: <199801040636.RAA00409@word.smith.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk If you can make a kernel from the same sources as that one, then doig it with -g and gdb -k newkernel /dev/mem will allow you to examine th s process structs etc. of those processes even without the -g kernel, you might be able to get somewhere if you can find teh address of 'allproc' as a start point. On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > Just simultaneously checking out two copies of the kernel source using > 'cvs co sys', I have an interesting situation: > > kingsford:~>ps axlwww > UID PID PPID CPU PRI NI VSZ RSS WCHAN STAT TT TIME COMMAND > 1000 1359 1348 1 -14 0 1356 864 inode D+ v1 0:06.84 cvs co sys > 1000 1366 160 4 -14 0 1356 812 inode D+ v2 0:06.77 cvs co sys > > Neither process is responding to signals, and neither can be killed. > The rest of the system is running as normal... > > This is -current as of 971220. > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 18:25:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA19634 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:25:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA19624 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:25:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA15443; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:35:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199801050035.QAA15443@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Nate Williams cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Jan 1998 16:38:27 MST." <199801042338.QAA20203@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 16:31:28 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > must compensate them for that somehow, and the only thing I'm aware of > that works effectively for longs periods of time (enough to get the job > done) is $$, and there isn't enough in the FreeBSD users ranks to > justify developing a FreeBSD-centric application. Good points , however , I am not necessarily talking about FreeBSD-centric applications. We have ported hundreds if not thousands of programs to FreeBSD. If we had something like Java Workshops with a suite of java beans and sample applications , we could actually start something. Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 19:02:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA22536 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:02:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.hanse.de (angel.hanse.de [193.174.9.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA22522 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:02:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Hanse.DE!Stefan.Bethke@mail.hanse.de) Received: from Hanse.DE by mail.hanse.de with UUCP for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org id ; Mon, 5 Jan 98 04:01 MET Received: from [193.141.161.123] (monster.pong.ppp.de [193.141.161.123]) by transit.hanse.de (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA12996 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 01:59:29 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: stefan@transit.hanse.de Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <34AD9004.237C228A@whistle.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 02:00:04 +0100 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Stefan Bethke Subject: Re: BT-542B fails with 2.2.5 (urgent) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk At 17:10 Uhr -0800 02.01.1998, Julian Elischer wrote: >> I'm currently trying to upgrade a machine from 1.1.5.1 to 2.2.5. >> >> Unfortunatly, the BT-452B, which worked fine with 1.1.5.1 (using aha), >> fails with 2.2.5-RELEASE. Thanks to all who answered, but it seems that "probably a hardware failure" seems to be true. The mainboard I was using doesn't seem to work, so I finally swapped it, and now everything works fine. Thanks, Stefan -- Stefan Bethke Hamburg, Germany From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 19:14:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA23441 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:14:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA23419 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:14:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA07436; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:14:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id UAA20801; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:14:42 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:14:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199801050314.UAA20801@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Amancio Hasty Cc: Nate Williams , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-Reply-To: <199801050035.QAA15443@rah.star-gate.com> References: <199801042338.QAA20203@mt.sri.com> <199801050035.QAA15443@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > If we had something like Java Workshops with a suite of java beans > and sample applications , we could actually start something. I'm hoping to try Java workshop out when I get more time. The Linux folks have it running, so it should be trivial to get it running under FreeBSD,since it's supposedly 100% java and/or shell scripts. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 19:19:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA23763 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:19:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA23759 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:19:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00673; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:26:35 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801050256.NAA00673@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Amancio Hasty cc: John Birrell , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Jan 1998 13:19:58 -0800." <199801042119.NAA14233@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 13:26:34 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > 3Com's Palm Pilot --- a pocket shirt size electronic organizer. > > There is low level support for the Palm Pilot: > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/comms/pilot-link There's also a pilot emulator (xpilot), which is pretty neat. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 19:27:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA24550 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:27:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA24233 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:22:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA16062; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:21:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199801050321.TAA16062@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Nate Williams cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Jan 1998 20:14:42 MST." <199801050314.UAA20801@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 19:21:50 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > If we had something like Java Workshops with a suite of java beans > > and sample applications , we could actually start something. > > I'm hoping to try Java workshop out when I get more time. The Linux > folks have it running, so it should be trivial to get it running under > FreeBSD,since it's supposedly 100% java and/or shell scripts. > > > Nate Java Workshop 2.0 does not run on FreeBSD and I doubt that it runs on linux. The linux folks did have an earlier beta version of Java Workshop working on linux. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 20:07:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA27556 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:07:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pluto.njcc.com (root@pluto.njcc.com [165.254.117.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA27548 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:07:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from khansen@njcc.com) Received: from Pkhansen (khansen.njcc.com [199.224.2.142]) by pluto.njcc.com (8.8.7/8.8.3) with ESMTP id XAA04310; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:07:21 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199801050407.XAA04310@pluto.njcc.com> Reply-To: <@njcc.com> From: "Ken Hansen" To: "Alfred Perlstein" , Subject: Re: SCSI on Soundblaster16? Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 23:07:39 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I can't speak to support for the chip in FreeBSD (it is an AHA-1510/20) but I can say that you would more than likely do beter getting a NCR 810 or similar SCSI card for $40-60 and a true SB16 for about same, than getting the SB16-SCSI. I have one, and the interface is OK, but it is nothing to get excited over... (IMHO). Ken khansen@njcc.com ---------- > From: Alfred Perlstein > To: hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: SCSI on Soundblaster16? > Date: Sunday, December 28, 1997 5:04 PM > > Is the integrated SCSI adapter on the SoundBlaster16 any good? would i be > wasting my money and sanity trying to hook up a 16x CD-rom to it? what's > the best i can expect from the darn thing (the SCSI adapter)? > > i would like to hook up a SCSI cdrom to it, but if the adapter is really > trash i might as well get an ATAPI IDE, they're cheaper anyhow.... > > plus is the driver even stable? > > thank you, > -Alfred From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 20:40:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA00636 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:40:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA00629 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:40:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0xp4Ki-0000HA-00; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:40:12 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id VAA25521 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:40:20 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199801050440.VAA25521@harmony.village.org> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Musing on boot Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 21:40:19 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I've hacked my rc files so that I always fsck on boot. This worked out fairly well until recently. Recently, I added about 6G of space across several partitions and disks. Now the system takes forever to boot. I had thought about unhacking the fsck, but then I realized that it would take forever to boot when I've crashed. So, being the safety conscious impatient engineer that I am, I thought about implementing the following. I thought I'd bounce it off hackers first to see what people think. The idea is to have a list of file systems that *MUST* be present for the system to come up. These files systems are fsck'd and mounted synchronously. All the rest of the file systems have a fsck kicked off in the background, and a mount done when that fsck happens to finish. This is horrible for home directories, but great for the OpenBSD sources, FreeBSD source, NetBSD sources, /usr/obj, build trees, gcc/egcs expermental crap, etc that is scattered over much of the new disk space. This would allow me to get back up quickly, while allowing stuff to "drift" into the system as it is available. I thought I'd bounce it off hackers. It seems like such a simple idea that something must be wrong with it. Comments? Warner P.S. Code to follow if there appears to be interest... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 21:24:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA03567 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:24:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA03462 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:23:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (ppp-55.ts-6.nyc.idt.net [169.132.98.55]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA29931 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 01:24:20 GMT Message-Id: <199801050124.BAA29931@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: Subject: Re: Musing on boot Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 00:19:47 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk this is a great idea, also the ability to add something along the lines of: if (mount on not_so_important_fs fails) sendmail > root "why it failed" also a syslog or something mechanism for saving the fsck output would be nice... maybe it exists but i can't ever find it... kinda like something to log the startup script output.... -Alfred ---------- > From: Warner Losh > To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Musing on boot > Date: Sunday, January 04, 1998 11:40 PM > > > I've hacked my rc files so that I always fsck on boot. This worked > out fairly well until recently. Recently, I added about 6G of space > across several partitions and disks. Now the system takes forever to > boot. I had thought about unhacking the fsck, but then I realized > that it would take forever to boot when I've crashed. > > So, being the safety conscious impatient engineer that I am, I thought > about implementing the following. I thought I'd bounce it off hackers > first to see what people think. > > The idea is to have a list of file systems that *MUST* be present for > the system to come up. These files systems are fsck'd and mounted > synchronously. All the rest of the file systems have a fsck kicked > off in the background, and a mount done when that fsck happens to > finish. > > This is horrible for home directories, but great for the OpenBSD > sources, FreeBSD source, NetBSD sources, /usr/obj, build trees, > gcc/egcs expermental crap, etc that is scattered over much of the new > disk space. This would allow me to get back up quickly, while > allowing stuff to "drift" into the system as it is available. > > I thought I'd bounce it off hackers. It seems like such a simple idea > that something must be wrong with it. > > Comments? > > Warner > > P.S. Code to follow if there appears to be interest... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 21:39:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA04575 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:39:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA04517 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:38:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA01099; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:00:00 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801050530.QAA01099@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Warner Losh cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Musing on boot In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Jan 1998 21:40:19 PDT." <199801050440.VAA25521@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 16:00:00 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > The idea is to have a list of file systems that *MUST* be present for > the system to come up. These files systems are fsck'd and mounted > synchronously. All the rest of the file systems have a fsck kicked > off in the background, and a mount done when that fsck happens to > finish. List the "optional" filesystems in /etc/fstab with '0' fsck pass values and 'noauto' mount options, then put fsck && mount & for each filesystem in /etc/rc.local > I thought I'd bounce it off hackers. It seems like such a simple idea > that something must be wrong with it. It's certainly not new. 8) > P.S. Code to follow if there appears to be interest... I would be inclined to suggest that an option to mount_ffs(8) that automatically fsck'ed a filesystem before mounting it would be a good way to go. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 4 22:33:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA08247 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 22:33:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA08237 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 22:32:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (brightmn@ppp-55.ts-6.nyc.idt.net [169.132.98.55]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA00380; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 02:33:17 GMT Message-Id: <199801050233.CAA00380@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: "Warner Losh" , "Mike Smith" Cc: Subject: Re: Musing on boot Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 01:29:05 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk MUHAHAHAH evilness: ( mount /dev/device /mountpoint || ( fsck /dev/device && mount /dev/device /mountpoint) ) & done in the background: if the mount fails, fsck the device then mount... put in a nested shell script we could grep a file with the devs and mount points in it, xargs to the script then do a foreach or something... -Alfred ---------- > From: Mike Smith > To: Warner Losh > Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Musing on boot > Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 12:30 AM > > > > > > > The idea is to have a list of file systems that *MUST* be present for > > the system to come up. These files systems are fsck'd and mounted > > synchronously. All the rest of the file systems have a fsck kicked > > off in the background, and a mount done when that fsck happens to > > finish. > > List the "optional" filesystems in /etc/fstab with '0' fsck pass values > and 'noauto' mount options, then put > > fsck && mount & > > for each filesystem in /etc/rc.local > > > I thought I'd bounce it off hackers. It seems like such a simple idea > > that something must be wrong with it. > > It's certainly not new. 8) > > > P.S. Code to follow if there appears to be interest... > > I would be inclined to suggest that an option to mount_ffs(8) that > automatically fsck'ed a filesystem before mounting it would be a good > way to go. > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 05:37:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA03759 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 05:37:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA03746 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 05:37:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (ppp-70.ts-7.nyc.idt.net [169.132.98.142]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA01423 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:38:32 GMT Message-Id: <199801050938.JAA01423@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: Subject: WIDE-dhcp-1.4p1 out. already ported. Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:34:35 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk The DHCP server suite is out (i don't know how long ago) and it's "built" to port to freebsd ok. no problems, just untar and "make;make install" i'm not really familiar with the port system so if anyone can, it should be incorperated, no patches are nessesary to compile... -Alfred From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 06:06:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA04887 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 06:06:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hercules.datafocus.com (smtp.datafocus.com [204.255.0.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA04868 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 06:06:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwex@DataFocus.com) Received: by hercules.fairfax.datafocus.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:49:43 -0500 Message-ID: From: "David E. Wexelblat" To: "'devel@XFree86.Org'" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross post) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:49:41 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Well, I have a great deal of experience with PC X servers (check out the work URL...). I have to be careful with what I say, as we are a source licensee for one of the PC X server vendors, and I've been inside their sources. I will only give some general comments. 1) From what I have been told by more than one PC X server manufacturer, DirectX is going to be a waste of time. DirectX only gets major performance improvements when it can take over the entire screen. When running in a window, it's not a major win over raw GDI code. As far as I know, none of the PC X server vendors use DirectX. That said - Windows NT 4.0 Service Pack 3 provides most of DirectX 3 for Windows NT. DirectX isn't supported at all prior to SP3, and DirectX 5 support isn't planned to be available until Windows NT 5.0 (which is currently in Beta1). 2) All the PC X servers operate in one of two modes: single-window or multiple-window. Single-window is a traditional X server main window, living in a single Windows window. Basically, the Windows window becomes a single large framebuffer. This is easy to implement, but X apps don't coexist well with Windows apps this way. Multi-window mode basically has no visible X root window. Each X top-level window is a Windows top-level window. In this mode, the X server provides some sort of local window manager, so that the X apps are both ICCCM-compliant, and windows-friendly. The good ones even recognize Motif window manager hints for decorations, etc. I have never seen anyone use anything other than multi-window mode (well, we do have a couple of ISVs selling turnkey boxes, who I have been told do use single-window mode). 3) Palette management is a major headache. In a normal X server, the X server controls the hardware palette, and can do what it wants. In a PC X server, Windows controls the palette. There's a lot of code involved in getting X color handling to work "right" under Windows. In addition, most of the major PC X server vendors have implemented 8-bit-pseudo-color visuals on top of 16/24/32-bit true-color visuals. This is because most PCs these days are in high/true-color mode, and most X apps fall down if the default visual isn't 8-bit pseudo-color. As far as I know, this is all done with software; I've been told that Windows provides no way to get to the RAMDAC to do it in hardware even if the RAMDAC supports it. 4) Device management is also a pain (keyboard & mouse), because you have to go through windows. 5) Font management is interesting. All the PC X servers I have seen have X bitmap & scaled fonts, but not in .pcf format. They have them in Windows .fon format, and provide their own font compilers. I've never completely understood why they bother with this - if they're going to provide X-specific fonts, why not leave then in X-specific formats? No one has yet written a font server that allows use of native Windows fonts, that I have seen. -- David Wexelblat Phone: (703) 803-3343 x370 DataFocus Incorporated Fax: (703) 803-3344 12450 Fair Lakes Circle, Suite 400 mailto:dwex@datafocus.com Fairfax, VA 22033-3821 http://www.datafocus.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Alfred Perlstein > Sent: Friday, January 02, 1998 6:31 AM > To: devel@XFree86.Org > Cc: hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross > post) > > (please excuse the cross post, i'm really looking for help and this is > a > strange multiplatform subject...) > > I'm interested in making a windows 95/NT port of Xfree86, > i plan on using DirectX to support fast accesses to the graphical > hardware. > > if anyone has the time to answer a couple of questions it would be > greatly > appreciated. > > 1) can anyone recommend a free c/cpp compiler/enviornment for this? > i've looked at DJGPP,RSXNT, and the cygnus thingy and so far: > DJGPP doesn't support win32. > RSXNT hardly is docmented and doesn't seem to be useful as a > UNIX to WIN32 > porting tool things like sockets don't seem to be implemented. > cygnus doesn't appeal to me because of hardcore GPL license they > have. > > i do NOT mind giving credit where credit is due... but i'm not > too keen on > releasing my source, i DO however, plan on the product being free. > > 2) if i use direct-X does anyone know if it will work on NT? i think > mircosoft doesn't support DirectX on NT, or at least not past version > 3... > > 3) what books can i get on the low level details of X? anything on > how the > X11 source tree is set up? anyone have any pointers to good > FAQs/tutorials? > > thank you, > -Alfred From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 06:53:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA08400 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 06:53:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wakko.visint.co.uk (wakko.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA08386 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 06:53:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from steve@visint.co.uk) Received: from dylan.visint.co.uk (dylan.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.180]) by wakko.visint.co.uk (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA26813 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:01:03 GMT Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 14:54:19 +0000 (GMT) From: Stephen Roome To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Weird malloc problem. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I just discovered that I can happily malloc 512M without any problem, even ps is sure that I've managed this, but seeing as I've only got about 150M total virtual memory available I'm a bit surprised. Should I be ? I'm running: FreeBSD dylan.visint.co.uk 3.0-971202-SNAP FreeBSD 3.0-971202-SNAP #0: Wed Dec 3 17:45:54 GMT 1997 steve@quit.visint.co.uk:/usr/src/sys/compile/QUIT i386 I wondered if there was any changes from about this time that might let me do that ? Thanks in advance. Steve -- Steve Roome - Vision Interactive Ltd. Tel:+44(0)117 9730597 Home:+44(0)976 241342 WWW: http://dylan.visint.co.uk/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 07:16:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA10090 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 07:16:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from callisto.fortean.com (callisto.fortean.com [206.142.225.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA10082 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 07:16:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from walter@fortean.com) Received: from localhost (walter@localhost) by callisto.fortean.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA14314; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 10:16:10 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: callisto.fortean.com: walter owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 10:16:10 -0500 (EST) From: "Bruce M. Walter" To: "David E. Wexelblat" cc: "'devel@XFree86.Org'" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross post) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, David E. Wexelblat wrote: > 1) From what I have been told by more than one PC X server > manufacturer, DirectX is going to be a waste of time. DirectX > only gets major performance improvements when it can take over > the entire screen. When running in a window, it's not a major > win over raw GDI code. As far as I know, none of the PC X server > vendors use DirectX. > > [...] > > I have never seen anyone use anything other than multi-window mode > (well, > we do have a couple of ISVs selling turnkey boxes, who I have been told > do use single-window mode). Exceed for 95 does full-screen quite well. In fact, I can't stand it any other way ;) Being primarily a Unix developer with certain Windoze requirements I need an environment where I can switch between the two in an instant. With Exceed in full-screen mode, you can't tell this is a Windoze box until you hit -... The price tag and lack of NT support are my only big bones to pick, although nice fast MPG animations would be nice. IMHO, doing a version without full-screen capability would be a mistake. - B ======================================================================== || Bruce M. Walter || 107 Timber Hollow Court #335 || || Senior Network Consultant || Chapel Hill, NC 27514 || || Fortean Technologies, Inc. || Tel: 919-967-4766 || || Information Technology Consultants || Fax: 919-967-4395 || ======================================================================== || BSD Unix -- It's not just a job, it's a way of life! || ======================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 07:23:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA10463 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 07:23:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hercules.datafocus.com (smtp.datafocus.com [204.255.0.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA10450 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 07:23:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwex@DataFocus.com) Received: by hercules.fairfax.datafocus.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 10:23:19 -0500 Message-ID: From: "David E. Wexelblat" To: "'Bruce M. Walter'" Cc: "'devel@XFree86.Org'" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross post) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 10:23:18 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Exceed is Hummingbird's product, isn't it? Or is there something else with the same name as the Hummingbird product? They certainly do have Windows NT support; we ship it (optionally) with NuTCRACKER, and it supports both WinNT and Win95. Note that single-window mode and fullscreen mode aren't the same thing. I'm pretty sure Hummingbird does single-window mode; I know several others do. I'm not sure that any of the PC X servers do true full-screen mode. I'm not at all saying that we shouldn't do single-window mode. I'm saying (a) that multiwindow mode is awfully important for a Win32 X server, and (b) I have been told by people who write these things for a living that DirectX in a window doesn't produce any performance benefits over GDI unless you are in fullscreen mode. > -----Original Message----- > From: Bruce M. Walter > Sent: Monday, January 05, 1998 10:16 AM > To: David E. Wexelblat > Cc: 'devel@XFree86.Org'; hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: RE: interested in working on windows port (sorry for > cross post) > > On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, David E. Wexelblat wrote: > > > 1) From what I have been told by more than one PC X server > > manufacturer, DirectX is going to be a waste of time. DirectX > > only gets major performance improvements when it can take over > > the entire screen. When running in a window, it's not a major > > win over raw GDI code. As far as I know, none of the PC X server > > vendors use DirectX. > > > > [...] > > > > I have never seen anyone use anything other than multi-window mode > > (well, > > we do have a couple of ISVs selling turnkey boxes, who I have been > told > > do use single-window mode). > > Exceed for 95 does full-screen quite well. In fact, I can't stand it > any > other way ;) > > Being primarily a Unix developer with certain Windoze requirements I > need > an environment where I can switch between the two in an instant. With > Exceed in full-screen mode, you can't tell this is a Windoze box until > you > hit -... The price tag and lack of NT support are my only > big > bones to pick, although nice fast MPG animations would be nice. > > IMHO, doing a version without full-screen capability would be a > mistake. > > - B > > ====================================================================== > == > || Bruce M. Walter || 107 Timber Hollow Court #335 > || > || Senior Network Consultant || Chapel Hill, NC 27514 > || > || Fortean Technologies, Inc. || Tel: 919-967-4766 > || > || Information Technology Consultants || Fax: 919-967-4395 > || > ====================================================================== > == > || BSD Unix -- It's not just a job, it's a way of life! > || > ====================================================================== > == From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 08:09:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA13373 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:09:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA13303 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:08:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (ppp-70.ts-7.nyc.idt.net [169.132.98.142]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA02085; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:09:25 GMT Message-Id: <199801051209.MAA02085@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: Cc: Subject: Re: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross post) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:05:11 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk i have no interest in making a "let windows be my window manager X" that is garbage, i've seen them and they are horrible, my main interest is getting a full screen port done with XDM logon abilities. using windows as my window manager gives me a chill and ruins the whole experiance for me :) if possible a "full screen in one window" would be a later project... i do not want to "stray" from the Xfree86 model, i would like to have this port be maintained easily, not as a one time port and forget about it deal where so much is kludged around that maintaining it is impossible. to me, DirectX+fullscreen is the way to go. i've seen "in window" X servers and the performance is horrid, why run X and make it slow? -Alfred ---------- > From: David E. Wexelblat > To: 'devel@XFree86.Org' > Cc: hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: RE: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross post) > Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 8:49 AM > > Well, I have a great deal of experience with PC X servers (check > out the work URL...). I have to be careful with what I say, as > we are a source licensee for one of the PC X server vendors, and > I've been inside their sources. I will only give some general > comments. > > 1) From what I have been told by more than one PC X server > manufacturer, DirectX is going to be a waste of time. DirectX > only gets major performance improvements when it can take over > the entire screen. When running in a window, it's not a major > win over raw GDI code. As far as I know, none of the PC X server > vendors use DirectX. > > That said - Windows NT 4.0 Service Pack 3 provides most of > DirectX 3 for Windows NT. DirectX isn't supported at all prior to > SP3, and DirectX 5 support isn't planned to be available until > Windows NT 5.0 (which is currently in Beta1). > > 2) All the PC X servers operate in one of two modes: single-window > or multiple-window. Single-window is a traditional X server main > window, living in a single Windows window. Basically, the Windows > window becomes a single large framebuffer. This is easy to implement, > but X apps don't coexist well with Windows apps this way. > > Multi-window mode basically has no visible X root window. Each X > top-level window is a Windows top-level window. In this mode, the X > server provides some sort of local window manager, so that the X apps > are both ICCCM-compliant, and windows-friendly. The good ones even > recognize Motif window manager hints for decorations, etc. > > I have never seen anyone use anything other than multi-window mode > (well, > we do have a couple of ISVs selling turnkey boxes, who I have been told > do use single-window mode). > > 3) Palette management is a major headache. In a normal X server, the > X server controls the hardware palette, and can do what it wants. In a > PC X server, Windows controls the palette. There's a lot of code > involved > in getting X color handling to work "right" under Windows. > > In addition, most of the major PC X server vendors have implemented > 8-bit-pseudo-color visuals on top of 16/24/32-bit true-color visuals. > This > is because most PCs these days are in high/true-color mode, and most X > apps > fall down if the default visual isn't 8-bit pseudo-color. As far as I > know, > this is all done with software; I've been told that Windows provides no > way > to get to the RAMDAC to do it in hardware even if the RAMDAC supports > it. > > 4) Device management is also a pain (keyboard & mouse), because you have > to > go through windows. > > 5) Font management is interesting. All the PC X servers I have seen > have X > bitmap & scaled fonts, but not in .pcf format. They have them in > Windows > .fon format, and provide their own font compilers. I've never > completely > understood why they bother with this - if they're going to provide > X-specific > fonts, why not leave then in X-specific formats? No one has yet written > a > font server that allows use of native Windows fonts, that I have seen. > > -- > David Wexelblat Phone: (703) 803-3343 x370 > DataFocus Incorporated Fax: (703) 803-3344 > 12450 Fair Lakes Circle, Suite 400 mailto:dwex@datafocus.com > Fairfax, VA 22033-3821 http://www.datafocus.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Alfred Perlstein > > Sent: Friday, January 02, 1998 6:31 AM > > To: devel@XFree86.Org > > Cc: hackers@freebsd.org > > Subject: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross > > post) > > > > (please excuse the cross post, i'm really looking for help and this is > > a > > strange multiplatform subject...) > > > > I'm interested in making a windows 95/NT port of Xfree86, > > i plan on using DirectX to support fast accesses to the graphical > > hardware. > > > > if anyone has the time to answer a couple of questions it would be > > greatly > > appreciated. > > > > 1) can anyone recommend a free c/cpp compiler/enviornment for this? > > i've looked at DJGPP,RSXNT, and the cygnus thingy and so far: > > DJGPP doesn't support win32. > > RSXNT hardly is docmented and doesn't seem to be useful as a > > UNIX to WIN32 > > porting tool things like sockets don't seem to be implemented. > > cygnus doesn't appeal to me because of hardcore GPL license they > > have. > > > > i do NOT mind giving credit where credit is due... but i'm not > > too keen on > > releasing my source, i DO however, plan on the product being free. > > > > 2) if i use direct-X does anyone know if it will work on NT? i think > > mircosoft doesn't support DirectX on NT, or at least not past version > > 3... > > > > 3) what books can i get on the low level details of X? anything on > > how the > > X11 source tree is set up? anyone have any pointers to good > > FAQs/tutorials? > > > > thank you, > > -Alfred From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 08:20:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA14618 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:20:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hercules.datafocus.com (smtp.datafocus.com [204.255.0.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA14041 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:15:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwex@DataFocus.com) Received: by hercules.fairfax.datafocus.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:15:05 -0500 Message-ID: From: "David E. Wexelblat" To: "'devel@XFree86.Org'" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross post) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:15:04 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Who is your target audience? Why on earth would I set up a windows box that is doing nothing but running X? This seems extraordinarily useless - if I wanted a dedicated X machine, I'd run Linux on it. The only reason to put X on a Windows PC is interoperability. > -----Original Message----- > From: Alfred Perlstein > Sent: Monday, January 05, 1998 11:05 AM > To: devel@XFree86.Org > Cc: hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: interested in working on windows port (sorry for > cross post) > > i have no interest in making a "let windows be my window manager X" > that is > garbage, i've seen them and they are horrible, my main interest is > getting > a full screen port done with XDM logon abilities. using windows as my > window manager gives me a chill and ruins the whole experiance for me > :) > > if possible a "full screen in one window" would be a later project... > > i do not want to "stray" from the Xfree86 model, i would like to have > this > port be maintained easily, not as a one time port and forget about it > deal > where so much is kludged around that maintaining it is impossible. > > to me, DirectX+fullscreen is the way to go. > > i've seen "in window" X servers and the performance is horrid, why run > X > and make it slow? > > -Alfred > > ---------- > > From: David E. Wexelblat > > To: 'devel@XFree86.Org' > > Cc: hackers@freebsd.org > > Subject: RE: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross > post) > > Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 8:49 AM > > > > Well, I have a great deal of experience with PC X servers (check > > out the work URL...). I have to be careful with what I say, as > > we are a source licensee for one of the PC X server vendors, and > > I've been inside their sources. I will only give some general > > comments. > > > > 1) From what I have been told by more than one PC X server > > manufacturer, DirectX is going to be a waste of time. DirectX > > only gets major performance improvements when it can take over > > the entire screen. When running in a window, it's not a major > > win over raw GDI code. As far as I know, none of the PC X server > > vendors use DirectX. > > > > That said - Windows NT 4.0 Service Pack 3 provides most of > > DirectX 3 for Windows NT. DirectX isn't supported at all prior to > > SP3, and DirectX 5 support isn't planned to be available until > > Windows NT 5.0 (which is currently in Beta1). > > > > 2) All the PC X servers operate in one of two modes: single-window > > or multiple-window. Single-window is a traditional X server main > > window, living in a single Windows window. Basically, the Windows > > window becomes a single large framebuffer. This is easy to > implement, > > but X apps don't coexist well with Windows apps this way. > > > > Multi-window mode basically has no visible X root window. Each X > > top-level window is a Windows top-level window. In this mode, the X > > server provides some sort of local window manager, so that the X > apps > > are both ICCCM-compliant, and windows-friendly. The good ones even > > recognize Motif window manager hints for decorations, etc. > > > > I have never seen anyone use anything other than multi-window mode > > (well, > > we do have a couple of ISVs selling turnkey boxes, who I have been > told > > do use single-window mode). > > > > 3) Palette management is a major headache. In a normal X server, > the > > X server controls the hardware palette, and can do what it wants. > In a > > PC X server, Windows controls the palette. There's a lot of code > > involved > > in getting X color handling to work "right" under Windows. > > > > In addition, most of the major PC X server vendors have implemented > > 8-bit-pseudo-color visuals on top of 16/24/32-bit true-color > visuals. > > This > > is because most PCs these days are in high/true-color mode, and most > X > > apps > > fall down if the default visual isn't 8-bit pseudo-color. As far as > I > > know, > > this is all done with software; I've been told that Windows provides > no > > way > > to get to the RAMDAC to do it in hardware even if the RAMDAC > supports > > it. > > > > 4) Device management is also a pain (keyboard & mouse), because you > have > > to > > go through windows. > > > > 5) Font management is interesting. All the PC X servers I have seen > > have X > > bitmap & scaled fonts, but not in .pcf format. They have them in > > Windows > > .fon format, and provide their own font compilers. I've never > > completely > > understood why they bother with this - if they're going to provide > > X-specific > > fonts, why not leave then in X-specific formats? No one has yet > written > > a > > font server that allows use of native Windows fonts, that I have > seen. > > > > -- > > David Wexelblat Phone: (703) 803-3343 x370 > > DataFocus Incorporated Fax: (703) 803-3344 > > 12450 Fair Lakes Circle, Suite 400 mailto:dwex@datafocus.com > > Fairfax, VA 22033-3821 http://www.datafocus.com > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Alfred Perlstein > > > Sent: Friday, January 02, 1998 6:31 AM > > > To: devel@XFree86.Org > > > Cc: hackers@freebsd.org > > > Subject: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross > > > post) > > > > > > (please excuse the cross post, i'm really looking for help and > this is > > > a > > > strange multiplatform subject...) > > > > > > I'm interested in making a windows 95/NT port of Xfree86, > > > i plan on using DirectX to support fast accesses to the graphical > > > hardware. > > > > > > if anyone has the time to answer a couple of questions it would be > > > greatly > > > appreciated. > > > > > > 1) can anyone recommend a free c/cpp compiler/enviornment for > this? > > > i've looked at DJGPP,RSXNT, and the cygnus thingy and so far: > > > DJGPP doesn't support win32. > > > RSXNT hardly is docmented and doesn't seem to be useful as a > > > UNIX to WIN32 > > > porting tool things like sockets don't seem to be implemented. > > > cygnus doesn't appeal to me because of hardcore GPL license they > > > have. > > > > > > i do NOT mind giving credit where credit is due... but i'm not > > > too keen on > > > releasing my source, i DO however, plan on the product being free. > > > > > > 2) if i use direct-X does anyone know if it will work on NT? i > think > > > mircosoft doesn't support DirectX on NT, or at least not past > version > > > 3... > > > > > > 3) what books can i get on the low level details of X? anything > on > > > how the > > > X11 source tree is set up? anyone have any pointers to good > > > FAQs/tutorials? > > > > > > thank you, > > > -Alfred From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 09:06:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA18816 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:06:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from webserver.smginc.com (webserver.smginc.com [204.170.176.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA18800 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:06:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from AdamT@smginc.com) Received: from smginc.com ([204.170.177.4]) by webserver.smginc.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-13723) with SMTP id AAA132; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:07:46 -0500 Received: by smginc.com with Microsoft Mail id <34B13CF5@smginc.com>; Mon, 05 Jan 98 12:05:09 PST From: Adam Turoff To: "'perlsta@sunyit.edu'" Cc: hackers Subject: RE: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross post) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 98 12:04:00 PST Message-ID: <34B13CF5@smginc.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I'm interested in making a windows 95/NT port of Xfree86, > i plan on using DirectX to support fast accesses to the graphical hardware. [...] Sorry, but the last time I checked, DirectX was one of those Win32 technologies that's not fully supported on NT. That may have changed with a service release of somesort for either DirectX or NT. If you're looking for a free X server for Win32, why not look at the MicroImages X server? I forget where I found it, but it's probably 2 or 3 clicks away from Cygnus' UNIX on NT resource page. >From what I remember, MicroImages had the foresight to write a multiplatform GIS package that uses X. Rather than making a Win32 version, they ported a simple X server to Windows. Don't think you can change the window manager, but (1) it works, (2) it's free and (3) it's functional, if not fullblown X. HTH, -- Adam. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 09:24:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA20654 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:24:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.firehouse.net (brian@shell.firehouse.net [209.42.203.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA20079 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:18:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@shell.firehouse.net) Received: from localhost (brian@localhost) by shell.firehouse.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA23412; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:17:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:17:28 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Mitchell To: "David E. Wexelblat" cc: "'devel@XFree86.Org'" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross post) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, David E. Wexelblat wrote: > Who is your target audience? Why on earth would I set up > a windows box that is doing nothing but running X? This > seems extraordinarily useless - if I wanted a dedicated > X machine, I'd run Linux on it. > > The only reason to put X on a Windows PC is interoperability. That's my opinion as well (minus the linux part). I run exceed at work in multiple window mode, it lets me get real work done. Full screen mode seems more kludgy, since I can't run windows and x11 apps side by side. However, my X needs are extremely slight, and I don't think it makes that much of a difference. The OS/2 (Warp) port of XF86 might be a good place to start. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 09:38:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA22205 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:38:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA22190 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:37:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (ppp-10.ts-3.nyc.idt.net [169.132.97.10]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA02521; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:38:27 GMT Message-Id: <199801051338.NAA02521@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: "David E. Wexelblat" , "'devel@XFree86.Org'" Cc: Subject: Re: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross post) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:32:23 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Who is your target audience? Why on earth would I set up > a windows box that is doing nothing but running X? This > seems extraordinarily useless - if I wanted a dedicated > X machine, I'd run Linux on it. > > The only reason to put X on a Windows PC is interoperability. no, that's not my point, being able to ALT-TAB or ctrl-esc out of it to task switch would be my point, not a lot of people want to install a 300+meg O/S just so they can get X. the reason i came up with the idea is that I'm at a college dorm, SUNYtech in NY, anyhow my roomates are always raving on about how unix is cool and easier to write programs on and blah blah blah... but they are not keen on installing it instead of win95 for several reasons, the disk space, the ton of configuration that has to be, and possible incomadible video cards. therefore if there was a fast free X server out there it would be very useful, ie. double click... MS-word, alt+tab... X... plus imagine how much distribution and press a free and _FAST_ (unlike the microimages server) would get if it would run under '95. -Alfred ---------- > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Alfred Perlstein > > Sent: Monday, January 05, 1998 11:05 AM > > To: devel@XFree86.Org > > Cc: hackers@freebsd.org > > Subject: Re: interested in working on windows port (sorry for > > cross post) > > > > i have no interest in making a "let windows be my window manager X" > > that is > > garbage, i've seen them and they are horrible, my main interest is > > getting > > a full screen port done with XDM logon abilities. using windows as my > > window manager gives me a chill and ruins the whole experiance for me > > :) > > > > if possible a "full screen in one window" would be a later project... > > > > i do not want to "stray" from the Xfree86 model, i would like to have > > this > > port be maintained easily, not as a one time port and forget about it > > deal > > where so much is kludged around that maintaining it is impossible. > > > > to me, DirectX+fullscreen is the way to go. > > > > i've seen "in window" X servers and the performance is horrid, why run > > X > > and make it slow? > > > > -Alfred > > > > ---------- > > > From: David E. Wexelblat > > > To: 'devel@XFree86.Org' > > > Cc: hackers@freebsd.org > > > Subject: RE: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross > > post) > > > Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 8:49 AM > > > > > > Well, I have a great deal of experience with PC X servers (check > > > out the work URL...). I have to be careful with what I say, as > > > we are a source licensee for one of the PC X server vendors, and > > > I've been inside their sources. I will only give some general > > > comments. > > > > > > 1) From what I have been told by more than one PC X server > > > manufacturer, DirectX is going to be a waste of time. DirectX > > > only gets major performance improvements when it can take over > > > the entire screen. When running in a window, it's not a major > > > win over raw GDI code. As far as I know, none of the PC X server > > > vendors use DirectX. > > > > > > That said - Windows NT 4.0 Service Pack 3 provides most of > > > DirectX 3 for Windows NT. DirectX isn't supported at all prior to > > > SP3, and DirectX 5 support isn't planned to be available until > > > Windows NT 5.0 (which is currently in Beta1). > > > > > > 2) All the PC X servers operate in one of two modes: single-window > > > or multiple-window. Single-window is a traditional X server main > > > window, living in a single Windows window. Basically, the Windows > > > window becomes a single large framebuffer. This is easy to > > implement, > > > but X apps don't coexist well with Windows apps this way. > > > > > > Multi-window mode basically has no visible X root window. Each X > > > top-level window is a Windows top-level window. In this mode, the X > > > server provides some sort of local window manager, so that the X > > apps > > > are both ICCCM-compliant, and windows-friendly. The good ones even > > > recognize Motif window manager hints for decorations, etc. > > > > > > I have never seen anyone use anything other than multi-window mode > > > (well, > > > we do have a couple of ISVs selling turnkey boxes, who I have been > > told > > > do use single-window mode). > > > > > > 3) Palette management is a major headache. In a normal X server, > > the > > > X server controls the hardware palette, and can do what it wants. > > In a > > > PC X server, Windows controls the palette. There's a lot of code > > > involved > > > in getting X color handling to work "right" under Windows. > > > > > > In addition, most of the major PC X server vendors have implemented > > > 8-bit-pseudo-color visuals on top of 16/24/32-bit true-color > > visuals. > > > This > > > is because most PCs these days are in high/true-color mode, and most > > X > > > apps > > > fall down if the default visual isn't 8-bit pseudo-color. As far as > > I > > > know, > > > this is all done with software; I've been told that Windows provides > > no > > > way > > > to get to the RAMDAC to do it in hardware even if the RAMDAC > > supports > > > it. > > > > > > 4) Device management is also a pain (keyboard & mouse), because you > > have > > > to > > > go through windows. > > > > > > 5) Font management is interesting. All the PC X servers I have seen > > > have X > > > bitmap & scaled fonts, but not in .pcf format. They have them in > > > Windows > > > .fon format, and provide their own font compilers. I've never > > > completely > > > understood why they bother with this - if they're going to provide > > > X-specific > > > fonts, why not leave then in X-specific formats? No one has yet > > written > > > a > > > font server that allows use of native Windows fonts, that I have > > seen. > > > > > > -- > > > David Wexelblat Phone: (703) 803-3343 x370 > > > DataFocus Incorporated Fax: (703) 803-3344 > > > 12450 Fair Lakes Circle, Suite 400 mailto:dwex@datafocus.com > > > Fairfax, VA 22033-3821 http://www.datafocus.com > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Alfred Perlstein > > > > Sent: Friday, January 02, 1998 6:31 AM > > > > To: devel@XFree86.Org > > > > Cc: hackers@freebsd.org > > > > Subject: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross > > > > post) > > > > > > > > (please excuse the cross post, i'm really looking for help and > > this is > > > > a > > > > strange multiplatform subject...) > > > > > > > > I'm interested in making a windows 95/NT port of Xfree86, > > > > i plan on using DirectX to support fast accesses to the graphical > > > > hardware. > > > > > > > > if anyone has the time to answer a couple of questions it would be > > > > greatly > > > > appreciated. > > > > > > > > 1) can anyone recommend a free c/cpp compiler/enviornment for > > this? > > > > i've looked at DJGPP,RSXNT, and the cygnus thingy and so far: > > > > DJGPP doesn't support win32. > > > > RSXNT hardly is docmented and doesn't seem to be useful as a > > > > UNIX to WIN32 > > > > porting tool things like sockets don't seem to be implemented. > > > > cygnus doesn't appeal to me because of hardcore GPL license they > > > > have. > > > > > > > > i do NOT mind giving credit where credit is due... but i'm not > > > > too keen on > > > > releasing my source, i DO however, plan on the product being free. > > > > > > > > 2) if i use direct-X does anyone know if it will work on NT? i > > think > > > > mircosoft doesn't support DirectX on NT, or at least not past > > version > > > > 3... > > > > > > > > 3) what books can i get on the low level details of X? anything > > on > > > > how the > > > > X11 source tree is set up? anyone have any pointers to good > > > > FAQs/tutorials? > > > > > > > > thank you, > > > > -Alfred From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 11:06:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA00997 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:06:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA00915 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:05:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06978; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:05:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd006927; Mon Jan 5 12:05:08 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA26601; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:04:58 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199801051904.MAA26601@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: mounting a FreeBSD partition on NetBSD or SunOS To: bsdean@gte.net Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 19:04:58 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801010219.VAA04068@corona.unx.sas.com> from "Brian Dean" at Dec 31, 97 09:19:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I have a few questions about filesystems created by one Unix variant > and being mounting by another. Generally not possible because of byte-order and other issues. The code Julian has done for partitioning schema recognition can address this, to some extent, but obviously it (1) only runs on FreeBSD so far, and (2) you would need to write recognition and layers for non FreeBSD recognized types (ie: the code is not yet exhaustive). Even after resolving this, after which you would have a proper device with nothingbut a foreign FS on it, there are byte order issues to resolve. > I'm running NetBSD 1.2.1 on SPARC at home and FreeBSD 3.0 (late > november snap) on x86 at work. I have an Iomega Jaz drive (removable > media) and would like to be able to create a Unix filesystem that is > mountable by both systems that I can transport between machines. I believe the NetBSD/SPARC port uses SunOS UFS layout. This means that it uses the correct byte order, not the Intel byte order, to lay out non-character values on disk. There are, in addition, issues of structure packing (effectively, you need to use "#pragma pack(1)" on structure declarations to ensure portability between machines, and padding needs to be explicit). It is not as difficult as it would first seem to resolve byte order issues -- just abstract non-character field references via macro, and make the macro conditional on a new mount flag -- but this is not likely to make it in as a default, given that it adds an extra compare/branch/jump and a possible dtohl/dtohs/htodl/htodl per reference/set. That's a lot of slowdown. > First off, is there a way to tell NetBSD/Sparc to honor the PC boot > block and partition table and use it to find the mountable FreeBSD UFS > partition? Port the DEVFS code and SLICE stack stuff to NetBSD. > Thirdly, even if one could do one of the above, would the file system > be mountable? Is the byte-ordering between processor architectures > (big/little endian) an issue here, or are the file system structures > as they reside on the disk, portable across architectures? No, and No. > And Fourth, if creating a such filesystem is not an option, what other > options do I have? As a (final) last resort can I do something like: > FreeBSD> tar cf - . | dd of=/dev/sd4c # jaz drive > NetBSD> dd if=/dev/sd4c | tar xf - The closest you could get would be to use a FATFS, which has a defined byte order. The CD9660 would work as well, but it is badly structured for read/write, and read/write is not supported in the implementations on either OS. I have more than a little interest in this type of thing myself. I'd be willing to give advice and probably some code towards at least making FreeBSD recognize NetBSD FS's from different architectures. Let me know if you get serious about putting in some hours on the problem. It would be best for me if the work was carried out on JAZ cartridges (that's where most of my NetBSD installations live). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 11:25:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA03059 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:25:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from consys.com (consys.com [209.60.202.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA03036 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:24:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rcarter@consys.com) Received: from dnstoo.consys.com (dnstoo.ConSys.COM [209.60.202.195]) by consys.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA29493; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:21:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnstoo.consys.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dnstoo.consys.com (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA11407; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:23:58 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199801051923.MAA11407@dnstoo.consys.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Alfred Perlstein" cc: "David E. Wexelblat" , "'devel@XFree86.Org'" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: interested in working on windows port (sorry for cross post) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 05 Jan 1998 12:32:23 EST." <199801051338.NAA02521@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 12:23:58 -0700 From: "Russell L. Carter" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk }> Who is your target audience? Why on earth would I set up }> a windows box that is doing nothing but running X? This }> seems extraordinarily useless - if I wanted a dedicated }> X machine, I'd run Linux on it. }> }> The only reason to put X on a Windows PC is interoperability. } }no, that's not my point, being able to ALT-TAB or ctrl-esc out of it to }task switch would be my point, not a lot of people want to install a }300+meg O/S just so they can get X. the reason i came up with the idea is }that I'm at a college dorm, SUNYtech in NY, anyhow my roomates are always }raving on about how unix is cool and easier to write programs on and blah }blah blah... but they are not keen on installing it instead of win95 for }several reasons, the disk space, the ton of configuration that has to be, }and possible incomadible video cards. therefore if there was a fast free X }server out there it would be very useful, ie. double click... MS-word, }alt+tab... X... } }plus imagine how much distribution and press a free and _FAST_ (unlike the }microimages server) would get if it would run under '95. } }-Alfred er, why is this in freebsd-hackers? Since it's here, I'll first note that I spend upwards of 10h a day with exceed managing my FreeBSD display on NT, because I need exmh and unix netscape and a (solid) gcc and... well NT is so goddawful ugly... I'll secondly note that really, hardware is so amazingly cheap that one can eat that cake... for less than 2K USD, you can have TWO (2) fast systems connected up via crossovered 100Mb NICs, each with 64 MB of memory (say), 4+ GB of disk, etc, sharing one large monitor, like I do both at work and at home. One can then have a sane network connection to the world, as an increasingly important benefit. And you get to have an NT box around so your kids can play games. ;-) I'll thirdly note that it has been a long time indeed since X has been slow enough to even care about. I'll fourthly note that if linux is a stretch for these people, then they probably ought to stick with Bill's best windows until they grow more adventurous. So who was that intended audience, again? BTW, there is already a free NT X-server out there, check out the Cygnus pages for a pointer. Cheers, Russell From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 11:25:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA03077 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:25:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA03023 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:24:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29242; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:23:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd029187; Mon Jan 5 12:23:43 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA27274; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:23:33 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199801051923.MAA27274@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Informix on FreeBSD (maybe) (fwd) To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 19:23:33 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd@core.acroal.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd@atipa.com, AdamT@smginc.com In-Reply-To: from "Simon Shapiro" at Jan 1, 98 02:52:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > IMJO, enormous amount of work. In my work, we just add some clearly > defined subsystems to an existing product and it represents several > engineering years of effort. There is really no need to do all that, I > think; There is a pretty good engine out there that is lacking in specific > areas which we are already addressing. There may be others. Were there > enough interest in our work, we could generalize it so other RDBMS engines > could enjoy the benefits too. Doing the reverse is very tricky; O/S > specific changes are inherently non-portable (TerrY?). But we are trying > to be as clean as we can. Sometimes it's worth it. If, for example, FreeBSD could export an FS-level transactioning subsystem for use by a database (say from a general implementation of soft updates using an event/handler based architecture), then there would be such significant performance wins that you'd have to be an idiot to not go for it. On the other hand, you're right: making something OS specific (or even compiler technology specific) is inherently bad, mostly because self-limiting portability self-limits the scope of the projects relevance. WINE is a good example here: it's not WIN32, and it's Intel-centric, so you don't get the hot guns from the Intel camp, or any guns at all from the non-Intel camps. If he were truly going to clone a commercial product (preferrably, an associative database), then there's a good chance that depending on FreeBSD features would cause those features to migrate into other OS's. Personally, I wouldn't do a clone unless (1) it was an associative database, not a relational one, like IBM's FOCUS or RAIMA's dbVista, and (2) There were mature OS features that, as part of my agenda, I wanted migrated into other OS's. Most clone work is not worth doing unless it raises the bar across the board. Clone work is, IMO, a tool for raising bars, and not a useful end in and of itself. FreeBSD is clone work, and it's useful because it can be used by commercial vendors. You can raise the bar for everyone, not just those willing to give away their code under the GPL. That's why I do FreeBSD and not Linux: Linux can raise bars as well, but the cost of using the code commercially is too high for it to be an effective method of encouraging across-the-board progress. Even so, FreeBSD is frequently too conservative (read: slow to adopt new technology) for my tastes... but at least it's faster than USL. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 12:12:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA06938 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:12:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from db2server.voga.com.br (db2server.voga.com.br [200.239.39.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA06810 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:10:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from daniel_sobral@voga.com.br) From: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br Received: from papagaio.voga.com.br (papagaio.voga.com.br [200.239.39.2]) by db2server.voga.com.br (8.8.3+2.6Wbeta9/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA13008 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:10:59 -0200 Received: by papagaio.voga.com.br(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.06 (346.7 3-18-1997)) id 03256583.00745BD8 ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:10:56 -0300 X-Lotus-FromDomain: VOGA To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <83256583.0073B33A.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:10:54 -0300 Subject: Device Driver Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk More bugging^^Wquestions: * The excelent device driver squeleton creator shell happens to create a file (called "nameio.h") a install it on /usr/include/sys, for the express purpose of IOCTL defines. Now, many drivers use /usr/include/machine instead. Which should I prefer? * My device driver should be used mainly by other kernel routines. How should I proceed? Is there a standard interface or something? * The $#*@*$ card needs timeouts from one to ten (!!!) seconds, and has no IRQ, for reads and writes! Now, blocking a process is easy (I suppose -- I haven't checked out how do it yet), but how should I proceed regarding the procedures called by other parts of the kernel? * Regarding major/minor number (I don't quite grok that yet), may I suppose the script did the right thing (current system)? Insightful thoughts would be appreciated. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 12:47:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA09999 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:47:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (firewall-user@alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA09583 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:42:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fenner@parc.xerox.com) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <53067(3)>; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:42:03 PST Received: by crevenia.parc.xerox.com id <177484>; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:41:49 -0800 From: Bill Fenner To: bsdean@gte.net, tlambert@primenet.com Subject: Re: mounting a FreeBSD partition on NetBSD or SunOS Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <98Jan5.124149pst.177484@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:41:39 PST Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Just as a point of reference, NeXTStep/486 uses big-endian filesystems. You can take a NeXTStep disk from a Sun to a PC to an HP to ... and just mount it. Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 13:52:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA17574 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:52:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fw.bluestone.com (firewall-user@fw.bluestone.com [199.99.173.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA17519 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:51:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bhargava@bluestone.COM) Received: by fw.bluestone.com; id QAA05714; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:58:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from blustone.operations.bluestone.com(204.107.210.200) by fw.bluestone.com via smap (3.2) id xma005642; Mon, 5 Jan 98 16:57:52 -0500 Received: from psgserver by blustone.operations.bluestone.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13802; Mon, 5 Jan 98 16:45:19 EST Message-Id: <34B15474.ABD322C@bluestone.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 16:45:24 -0500 From: bhargava chittamuri Organization: bluestone consulting, Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Cc: bhargava@bluestone.COM Subject: metasend and attachments Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk hi, I am trying to develop an application which can forward multiple multiple attachments using a combination of metasend and sendmail THe attachements (gif and jpg files for ex.,) are visible at the recieving end but the actual name of the file(s) sent gets lost somewhere Could anyone suggest a solution to my problem This is a brief description of my usage of these 2 commands (1)metasend -b -f datafile1 -m 'text/plain'\ -n -f gifFile1 -m 'image/gif'\ -n -f gifFile2 -m 'image/gif'\ -s " Subject matter"\ -t bhargava@bluestone.com\ -o tempFile (2) /usr/ucb/sendmail -oi -t < tempFile thanks bhargava -- =============================================================== Bhargava Chittamuri Phone: (609) 727-4600 Bluestone 1000 Briggs Road Email: bhargava@bluestone.com Mt. Laurel, NJ 08054 Web: http://www.bluestone.com/ =============================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 14:03:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18701 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 14:03:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA18178 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:57:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from enetsj@piemza.edu.ar) Received: from pfultra.phil.uni-sb.de (pf4.phil.uni-sb.de [134.96.54.54]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA05244 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:52:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from www.phil.uni-sb.de (root@pf2.phil.uni-sb.de [134.96.82.13]) by pfultra.phil.uni-sb.de (8.8.8/8.8.8/961213chris) with ESMTP id WAA19119 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:57:18 +0100 (MET) Received: from cofemz.piemza.edu.ar (cofemz.piemza.edu.ar [200.10.219.2]) by www.phil.uni-sb.de (8.8.6/8.8.6/961001chris) with SMTP id WAA29796 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:57:12 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199801052157.WAA29796@www.phil.uni-sb.de> Received: from cs2-async3.piemza.edu.ar by cofemz.piemza.edu.ar with SMTP (1.37.109.4/16.3) id AA23415; Mon, 5 Jan 98 18:55:53 -0300 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 98 18:55:53 -0300 X-Sender: enetsj@cofemz (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: saar-lists-freebsd-hackers@pf4.phil.uni-sb.de From: Windows Subject: HELP Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk HELP From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 15:52:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA27322 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:52:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA27306 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:52:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from handy@sag.space.lockheed.com) Received: from localhost by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA29109; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:52:02 -0800 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:52:02 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Handy To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: mii device Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hey folks, Running a -STABLE kernel on a new machine, I get this on boot-up: .. vx0 <3COM 3C905 Fast Etherlink XL PCI> rev 0 int a irq 10 on pci0:15 mii[*mii*]: disable 'auto select' with DOS util! address 00:60:08:3e:08:66 vga0 rev 0 int a irq 9 on pci0:16 ... What's this "mii" bit about? The ethernet card is a combo 10/100 card, I believe, so I presume this means I should set it manually to run on '10'. What are the consequences of not doing this? I don't have a DOS partition right now I can do this with... Wondering, Brian From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 16:23:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA01115 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:23:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from opus.cts.cwu.edu (skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu [198.104.92.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA01058 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:23:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Received: from localhost (skynyrd@localhost) by opus.cts.cwu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA27496; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:22:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:22:51 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Timmons To: Brian Handy cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mii device In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk mii - media independent interface. does your card have an MII port, too? it would be a connector that resembles a high density scsi plug. -c On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Brian Handy wrote: > Hey folks, > > Running a -STABLE kernel on a new machine, I get this on boot-up: > > .. > vx0 <3COM 3C905 Fast Etherlink XL PCI> rev 0 int a irq 10 on pci0:15 > mii[*mii*]: disable 'auto select' with DOS util! address 00:60:08:3e:08:66 > vga0 rev 0 int a irq 9 on pci0:16 > ... > > > What's this "mii" bit about? The ethernet card is a combo 10/100 card, I > believe, so I presume this means I should set it manually to run on '10'. > What are the consequences of not doing this? I don't have a DOS partition > right now I can do this with... > > Wondering, > > > Brian > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 16:36:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA03231 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:36:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA03117 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:36:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from handy@sag.space.lockheed.com) Received: from localhost by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA04071; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:27:15 -0800 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:27:15 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Handy To: Chris Timmons Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mii device In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >mii - media independent interface. does your card have an MII port, too? >it would be a connector that resembles a high density scsi plug. Huh...I only see the SCSI-3 interface, the MIDI game port/sound card (I think this is on the motherboard), and...a couple of little 4-pin connectors labeled USB 0 and USB 1. I didn't order this machine, and I don't actually have a spec sheet for it, so I'm still a bit perplexed by the parts in it! Brian From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 17:44:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA09327 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 17:44:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA09308 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 17:44:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from handy@sag.space.lockheed.com) Received: from localhost by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA30812; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 17:44:40 -0800 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 17:44:40 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Handy To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: tcsh question Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hey folks, I've got a tcsh question for somebody. I have some csh shell scripts (yep, #!/bin/csh) that create a LOT of environmental variables. Recently, either some change to tcsh (or some change to the scripts I'm running) has caused a problem. Here's the line from my .cshrc file: source /usr/ssw/gen/setup/setup.ssw Not too innocuous...this script in turn calls a mess of other scripts to set up a bunch of astrophysics stuff I use with IDL. (www.rsinc.com) My default shell is tcsh, I'm running the current version. When I fire this script off, I get this noise: kriek:~ ->source .cshrc SSW setup will include: Type to start SSW IDL ^E\242@\222@x@^Z^ALoad: Command not found. ^A^F\314ALA\312@\202^HERROR:: Too many arguments. kriek:~ -> If I drop into csh and then source this, no problems. If I fire it off with a "csh [...]setup.ssw" line it works, but I guess some of the environmentals don't jump around in quite the same way. AND, it doesn't do this on any of our other platforms. I tried 'unlimit', I've peeked briefly at the login.conf stuff and turned away quickly. I've tried running it as root. Nothing seems to change the fundamental problem, and it's hard to diagnose where the problem is -- it acts like it runs out of some sort of memory and corrupts itself, but I'm *really* unaware of what's going on here. When I start sprinkling echos throught the scripts, the problem changes and the place where it crashes is always totally innocuous. Does anyone have an idea where to look to figure this out? How can I be more vague? :-) I'm too confused to even present a clear picture of what's causing me problems! Brian From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 18:05:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA10978 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:05:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA10960 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:05:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00719; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:27:25 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801060157.MAA00719@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Device Driver In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 05 Jan 1998 18:10:54 -0300." <83256583.0073B33A.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 12:27:24 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > More bugging^^Wquestions: > > * The excelent device driver squeleton creator shell happens to create a > file (called "nameio.h") a install it on /usr/include/sys, for the express > purpose of IOCTL defines. Now, many drivers use /usr/include/machine > instead. Which should I prefer? sys/sys is correct for machine-independant drivers, sys/i386/include is correct for i386-specific drivers. > * My device driver should be used mainly by other kernel routines. How > should I proceed? Is there a standard interface or something? You need to be more specific about this before it's possible to give a really useful answer. Look at the network drivers and disk drivers for two sorts of drivers that are used primarily by other kernel code. > * The $#*@*$ card needs timeouts from one to ten (!!!) seconds, and has no > IRQ, for reads and writes! Now, blocking a process is easy (I suppose -- I > haven't checked out how do it yet), but how should I proceed regarding the > procedures called by other parts of the kernel? It depends on the context of potential callers to your code. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 18:18:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA12046 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:18:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.intol.com (intol.com [204.149.245.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA12025 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:17:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from club@intol.com) Received: from [204.149.245.110] by mail.intol.com (Netscape Mail Server v2.01) with SMTP id CWT167 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:06:37 -0500 From: club@intol.com (CLUB) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: INTOL - 17 X-Mailer: Allaire Cold Fusion 2.0 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:06:37 -0500 Message-ID: <19980105205336071.CWT167@[204.149.245.110]> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Take advantage of our Reflex(CXT OEM) 17" SVGA, Non Interlaced, .28dp, 2 year warranty Monitor's, While Supplies last $399.00 Call 1-800-551-1449 http://www.intol.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 18:50:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA15672 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:50:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from concerto.neosoft.com (concerto.neosoft.com [206.109.14.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA15642 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:50:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mail2@concerto.neosoft.com) Received: from localhost (mail2@localhost) by concerto.neosoft.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA00560 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:50:10 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from mail2@concerto.neosoft.com) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:50:10 -0600 (CST) From: Mail2 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: HP printer and samba Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I am using Samba and a HP deskjet printer. Everything works fine except for an extra blank page at the end of each print job. I suspect this could be an extra ctrl-D problem... does anybody have a filter that gets rid of the ctrl-D? Or does anybody know what it is if it's not a ctrl-d thing? Mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 19:50:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA21664 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 19:50:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA21612; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 19:50:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id TAA03257; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 19:49:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma003255; Mon Jan 5 19:49:46 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA07978; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 19:49:46 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199801060349.TAA07978@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: several networking questions ... In-Reply-To: <19971227114414.06459@lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Dec 27, 97 11:44:14 am" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 19:49:46 -0800 (PST) Cc: onur@dpc.kfupm.edu.sa, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Greg Lehey writes: > > (2) If I have two 56K modems, and two telephone lines, can I dial my ISP > > using both telehone lines and achieve 112Kb/s data transfer rate for ftp > > or http connections ? There is a program "mpd" which does this, assuming your ISP has equipment that supports it and enables it for you. It's in the ports collection under "net". -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 20:06:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA23192 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:06:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA22856 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:01:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from handy@sag.space.lockheed.com) Received: from localhost by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA10470; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:01:22 -0800 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:01:22 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Handy To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tcsh question In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Revisiting my shell script problem, I started with this: > kriek:~ ->source .cshrc > SSW setup will include: > > Type to start SSW IDL > ^E\242@\222@x@^Z^ALoad: Command not found. > ^A^F\314ALA\312@\202^HERROR:: Too many arguments. > kriek:~ -> I noticed if I ran this as root...it worked fine! This leads me to believe it may be a problem with my @#$^! /etc/login.conf file. Attempts to make it work so far aren't getting me anywhere, but it feels like that's where the problem lies. Brian From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 20:11:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA23814 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:11:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from onyx.atipa.com (ns.atipa.com [208.128.22.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA23085 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:04:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@atipa.com) Received: (qmail-queue invoked by uid 1018); 6 Jan 1998 04:10:42 -0000 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:10:41 -0700 (MST) From: Atipa X-Sender: freebsd@dot.ishiboo.com To: Mail2 cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, chuckr@glue.umd.edu Subject: Re: HP printer and samba In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I had to set up a different printcap entry for samba for that exact reason. It was the exact same as my default entry, but added a :sf: for "suppress footer". -CURRENT broke lpd a while ago according to Chuck Robey. He had the same problem on Dec 8th, but it wasn't the /etc/printcap. Chuck, did you ever figure that one out? Kevin On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Mail2 wrote: > > I am using Samba and a HP deskjet printer. Everything works fine except > for an extra blank page at the end of each print job. I suspect this > could be an extra ctrl-D problem... does anybody have a filter that gets > rid of the ctrl-D? Or does anybody know what it is if it's not a ctrl-d > thing? > > Mike > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 20:16:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA24462 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:16:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hammurabi.nh.ultra.net (hammurabi.nh.ultra.net [205.162.79.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA23809 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:11:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gfraize@nh.ultranet.com) Received: from nh.ultranet.com (d11.dial-7.exr.nh.ultra.net [207.41.148.203]) by hammurabi.nh.ultra.net (8.8.5/ult.n14767) with ESMTP id XAA30657; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:10:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34B1AD63.B00DFABC@nh.ultranet.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 23:04:51 -0500 From: Greg Fraize Organization: Just me! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Amancio Hasty CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Java Apps? References: <199801041023.CAA11922@rah.star-gate.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------5497C5A5873DBB07A2CA964C" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5497C5A5873DBB07A2CA964C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MY my old college they just switch what lang. student learn in programming one. two years ago they change it to C++, now this spring it is going to be java..... Amancio Hasty wrote: > > Curious, are people using FreeBSD to develop Java apps ? > > >From my brief exposure to jdk1.1.5 , Swing, Beans, etc.., it seems > that there is enough critical infra-structure to create useful apps > also there are plenty of lessons there in OO methodology -- > actually Java looks more like a cross-road of OO techniques. > > This is the have been trying to solve for FreeBSD : > Provide or highlight a technology which people can actually use > to develop applications. > > My first venture was to port X to 386bsd 0.0 , then > porting of Inteviews, and later on tcl . Must say that neither of > those technologies have been sufficient or catalysts for > developing applications. > > So is Java the technology which will launch application development > in FreeBSD?? > > When I am more up to speed on Java , my test target application will be > a graphical front-end for my Pilot 8) > > Cheers, > Amancio --------------5497C5A5873DBB07A2CA964C Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Gregory Fraize Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Gregory Fraize n: Fraize;Gregory email;internet: gfraize@nh.ultranet.com x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------5497C5A5873DBB07A2CA964C-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 20:30:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA26736 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:30:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lsd.relcom.eu.net (ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net [193.124.23.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA26691 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:30:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net) Received: (from ache@localhost) by lsd.relcom.eu.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA24356; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:29:55 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from ache) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:29:53 +0300 (MSK) From: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= X-Sender: ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net To: Brian Handy cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tcsh question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Brian Handy wrote: > kriek:~ ->source .cshrc > SSW setup will include: > > Type to start SSW IDL > ^E\242@\222@x@^Z^ALoad: Command not found. > ^A^F\314ALA\312@\202^HERROR:: Too many arguments. > kriek:~ -> It is known bug somehow connected with libc/nls library memory damage. Since it is relatively hard to trace, I not fix it yet. Try to set LANG to C as workaround. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.pp.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 20:49:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA29427 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:49:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomis.simon-shapiro.org (nomis.i-Connect.Net [206.190.143.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA29378 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:48:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@nomis.Simon-Shapiro.ORG) Received: (qmail 13532 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Jan 1998 04:46:27 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199801051923.MAA27274@usr08.primenet.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 20:46:27 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: Informix on FreeBSD (maybe) (fwd) Cc: AdamT@smginc.com, freebsd@atipa.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd@core.acroal.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On 05-Jan-98 Terry Lambert wrote: >> IMJO, enormous amount of work. In my work, we just add some clearly >> defined subsystems to an existing product and it represents several >> engineering years of effort. There is really no need to do all that, I >> think; There is a pretty good engine out there that is lacking in >> specific >> areas which we are already addressing. There may be others. Were there >> enough interest in our work, we could generalize it so other RDBMS >> engines >> could enjoy the benefits too. Doing the reverse is very tricky; O/S >> specific changes are inherently non-portable (TerrY?). But we are >> trying >> to be as clean as we can. > > Sometimes it's worth it. If, for example, FreeBSD could export an > FS-level transactioning subsystem for use by a database (say from > a general implementation of soft updates using an event/handler > based architecture), then there would be such significant performance > wins that you'd have to be an idiot to not go for it. I tried to raise interest in doing some of this work in FreeBSD and met (almost) zero interest. I am not paricularly interested in cloning any particular database engine. I find most of them boringly similar in user features. I think that building certain facilities into an O/S that can be easily be used by database engines (with little regard to topology of the DBS) is useful. To this end I have built an in-kernel Distributed Lock Manager that is simple and easy to use and am working on developing a simple in-kernel Distributed Storage Manager than will allow DBMS developers to use a secure, transaction oriented, distributed storage medium. This is, in many cases, half the battle. > On the other hand, you're right: making something OS specific (or > even compiler technology specific) is inherently bad, mostly because > self-limiting portability self-limits the scope of the projects > relevance. WINE is a good example here: it's not WIN32, and it's > Intel-centric, so you don't get the hot guns from the Intel camp, or > any guns at all from the non-Intel camps. > > If he were truly going to clone a commercial product (preferrably, > an associative database), then there's a good chance that depending > on FreeBSD features would cause those features to migrate into > other OS's. > > Personally, I wouldn't do a clone unless (1) it was an associative > database, not a relational one, like IBM's FOCUS or RAIMA's dbVista, > and (2) There were mature OS features that, as part of my agenda, I > wanted migrated into other OS's. > > Most clone work is not worth doing unless it raises the bar across > the board. Clone work is, IMO, a tool for raising bars, and not > a useful end in and of itself. > > FreeBSD is clone work, and it's useful because it can be used by > commercial vendors. You can raise the bar for everyone, not just > those willing to give away their code under the GPL. That's why > I do FreeBSD and not Linux: Linux can raise bars as well, but the > cost of using the code commercially is too high for it to be an > effective method of encouraging across-the-board progress. Even > so, FreeBSD is frequently too conservative (read: slow to adopt > new technology) for my tastes... but at least it's faster than USL. Terry, I'll build the storage manager if you build the DBMS. Deal? :-) Simon From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 21:10:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA01260 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:10:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from emu.sourcee.com (emu.sourcee.com [199.201.159.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA01180 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:09:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nrice@emu.sourcee.com) Received: (from nrice@localhost) by emu.sourcee.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) id AAA15988; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:09:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19980106000948.03566@emu.sourcee.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:09:48 -0500 From: Norman C Rice To: Mail2 Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HP printer and samba References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from Mail2 on Mon, Jan 05, 1998 at 08:50:10PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, Jan 05, 1998 at 08:50:10PM -0600, Mail2 wrote: > > I am using Samba and a HP deskjet printer. Everything works fine except > for an extra blank page at the end of each print job. I suspect this > could be an extra ctrl-D problem... does anybody have a filter that gets > rid of the ctrl-D? Or does anybody know what it is if it's not a ctrl-d > thing? > > Mike I believe that the Ctrl-F ('\f') character will cause the formfeed. Did you specify `sf' in the /etc/printcap entry? -- Regards, Norman C. Rice, Jr. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 5 22:22:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA06123 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:22:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wcc.wcc.net (wcc.wcc.net [208.6.232.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA06089 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:20:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from detlev!joelh@wcc.wcc.net) Received: from detlev.UUCP (ppp96.wcc.net [208.6.232.96]) by wcc.wcc.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA05483; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:17:24 -0600 (CST) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.8.8/8.8.7) id AAA04044; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:18:42 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:18:42 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199801060618.AAA04044@detlev.UUCP> To: steve@visint.co.uk CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Stephen Roome on Mon, 5 Jan 1998 14:54:19 +0000 (GMT)) Subject: Re: Weird malloc problem. From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I just discovered that I can happily malloc 512M without any problem, > even ps is sure that I've managed this, but seeing as I've only got about > 150M total virtual memory available I'm a bit surprised. Should I be ? IIRC (and I'm no expert), it is possible to sbrk your processes' entire addressable memory space (all 2^32 bits), and never use it. However, when you actually try to use it, then you get a core dump (I think a SIGSEGV). So, you call malloc, which sbrk's the block plus its overhead. Then malloc then puts its own before the block. At that point, then a actual page of virtual memory is assigned to the block, not before. I believe this is correct, but I could be mistaken. -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 00:12:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA15107 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:12:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA15081 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:11:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA17117; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:11:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id BAA24809; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:11:46 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:11:46 -0700 Message-Id: <199801060811.BAA24809@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Brian Handy Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tcsh question In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > kriek:~ ->source .cshrc > > SSW setup will include: > > > > Type to start SSW IDL > > ^E\242@\222@x@^Z^ALoad: Command not found. > > ^A^F\314ALA\312@\202^HERROR:: Too many arguments. > > kriek:~ -> > > I noticed if I ran this as root...it worked fine! This leads me to > believe it may be a problem with my @#$^! /etc/login.conf file. Attempts > to make it work so far aren't getting me anywhere, but it feels like > that's where the problem lies. Try doing 'unlimit' and see if it works then. If it doesn't, then it's probably not something in /etc/login.conf, but a permissions problem somewhere. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 00:23:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA15910 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:23:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dog.farm.org (gw-hssi-2.farm.org [209.66.103.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA15903 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:22:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dog.farm.org!dk) Received: (from dk@localhost) by dog.farm.org (8.7.5/dk#3) id AAA03971; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:20:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:20:34 -0800 (PST) From: Dmitry Kohmanyuk Message-Id: <199801060820.AAA03971@dog.farm.org> To: pjchilds@imforei.apana.org.au (Peter Childs) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pptp Newsgroups: cs-monolit.gated.lists.freebsd.hackers Organization: FARM Computing Association Reply-To: dk+@ua.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In article <199801010909.TAA19362@al.imforei.apana.org.au> you wrote: > In article <34833C08.5B230D62@intcomm.net> you wrote: > > If anyone has any suggestions or ideas the following: > Does it specifically have to be PPTP? I have used ppp (ijppp) over > tcp/ip before so that one server appeared on another's local > network via the internet. Pretty interesting stuff (see > the ijppp manual if you find it). ppp over tcp indeed works, but the performance and stability is pretty bad. the delay on your `physical' link and especially packet loss on it can render tunnelled ppp link pretty unusable. > I've seen a tunneling implementation over IP using the tun devices > as well (without the other stuff in ijppp) that Mark Newton > wrote (newton@dotat.org) I have used (hacked) ip-in-ip implementation available as http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=1154 with great success (compatible with cisco routers, too.) is there anybody else interested in ip tunneling protocols ? -- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 01:37:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA22156 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:37:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from atena.eurocontrol.fr (atena.uneec.eurocontrol.fr [147.196.69.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA22090 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:37:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from philippe.brun@eurocontrol.fr) Received: by atena.eurocontrol.fr; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA31494; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:35:42 +0100 Received: from brteec1 (brteec1.eurocontrol.fr) by eurocontrol.fr with SMTP (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA111659135; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:32:15 +0100 Received: by brteec1 with Microsoft Mail id <34B27920@brteec1>; Tue, 06 Jan 98 10:34:08 PST From: BRUN Philippe To: FREEBSD Date: Tue, 06 Jan 98 10:24:00 PST Message-Id: <34B27920@brteec1> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Salut, My machine has 32 Mbyte of RAM I have 3 isa cards mapped beetween 15 Mb et 16 Mb I have a problem with address beetween 15 Mb et 16 Mb, this Ram exist in the system and in isa card I want to create a hole in the system memory to use isa card Ram for these address How do I proceed with FREEBSD 2.2.5 ? TIA --------------------------------------------------------- Philippe BRUN EEC BP15 F-91222 Bretigny s/Orge Cedex France Tel:+33 01 69 88 72 78 Fax:+33 01 69 88 73 33 e-mail: philippe.brun@eurocontrol.fr --------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 01:54:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA23950 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:54:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA23944 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:54:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gozer@ludd.luth.se) Received: from father.ludd.luth.se (gozer@father.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.18]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA20128; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:54:15 +0100 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:54:13 +0100 (MET) From: Johan Larsson To: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= cc: Brian Handy , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tcsh question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk This is a problem with the port. One solution is to install the port, then compile tcsh _without_ patches (just right out of the box) and install just the tcsh binary! This will make it all work. The port is damaged. Johan On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, [KOI8-R] áÎÄÒÅÊ þÅÒÎÏ× wrote: > On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Brian Handy wrote: > > > kriek:~ ->source .cshrc > > SSW setup will include: > > > > Type to start SSW IDL > > ^E\242@\222@x@^Z^ALoad: Command not found. > > ^A^F\314ALA\312@\202^HERROR:: Too many arguments. > > kriek:~ -> > > It is known bug somehow connected with libc/nls library memory > damage. Since it is relatively hard to trace, I not fix it yet. > Try to set LANG to C as workaround. > > -- > Andrey A. Chernov > > http://www.nagual.pp.ru/~ache/ > > > -- * mailto:gozer@ludd.luth.se * http://www.ludd.luth.se/users/gozer/ * * Powered by FreeBSD. http://www.se.freebsd.org/ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ * From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 02:08:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA24988 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:08:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from core.acroal.com (firewall0.acroal.com [209.24.61.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA24983 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:08:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@core.acroal.com) Received: from localhost (freebsd@localhost) by core.acroal.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA01403; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:07:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@core.acroal.com) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:07:56 -0800 (PST) From: FreeBSD Hacker To: Simon Shapiro cc: Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Informix on FreeBSD (maybe) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk With regard to that channel - i have been unable to locate any windows odbc-->postgresql drivers worth their weight in sand. openlink software claims to have some, but a) there middleware is obscenely priced, and b) i have yet to find and working drivers. > IMHO, one will be better off with PostgreSQL. Stay tuned to this > channel for more important news in this regard. > > ---------- > > > Sincerely Yours, > > Simon Shapiro > Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 02:09:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA25075 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:09:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from core.acroal.com (firewall0.acroal.com [209.24.61.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA25065 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:09:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@core.acroal.com) Received: from localhost (freebsd@localhost) by core.acroal.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA01407; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:09:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@core.acroal.com) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:09:29 -0800 (PST) From: FreeBSD Hacker To: Julian Elischer cc: Jim Bryant , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Informix on FreeBSD (maybe) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Well, give us some numbers then. $$$ On Mon, 29 Dec 1997, Julian Elischer wrote: > Ok let;s put it another way.. > I was trying to guage how much af a market there would be for a freeBSD > binary of informix's new OODB. > Most of the work of geting it ported would have to be done in a FBSD > skunkworks as I really doubt thare is enough of a market for a full-on > port. (such as Oracle have). > > >From the non-responce I received, it would seem that Informix woul dnot > be able to make a case for a freeBSD port of any kind, no matter how they > tried to lower the cost. > > julian > > > > On Mon, 29 Dec 1997, Jim Bryant wrote: > > > In reply: > > > I've been talking to an Informix-type, who when asked if there > > > could be an informix portt to FreeBSD said.. > > > "maybe" "anything for a buck" > > > > > > is there actually anyone outnthere who would pay a regular > > > informix price for a FreeBSD runnable Informix (IUS) > > > > yes. > > > > > with a downgraded "We understand that this is not a fully > > > supported product" type of agreement? > > > > no. > > > > question: unsupported by informix, or unsupported by FreeBSD, Inc.? > > > > If I pay FULL PRICE for Informix, I EXPECT FULL SUPPORT from Informix. > > > > jim > > -- > > All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, > > think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or > > radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw > > voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 02:14:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA25482 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:14:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from penrose.isocor.ie (penrose.isocor.ie [194.106.155.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA25478 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:14:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter.edwards@penrose.isocor.ie) Received: from plank (194.106.155.26) by penrose.isocor.ie; 6 Jan 1998 10:13:31 +0000 Message-ID: <34B20383.222E6797@penrose.isocor.ie> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 10:12:19 +0000 From: Peter Edwards Organization: ISOCOR X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Handy CC: Chris Timmons , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mii device X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi, >mii - media independent interface. does your card have an MII port, too? Some cards (many of the DEC 2114[023] devices and the Intel Pro100/B at least) have an on-board MII-compliant PHY device that controls the physical layer interface (ie, its what is wired to the TP connection on the board). It'll do things like auto-detect the network speed and duplex mode. There IS a standard MII connector. The idea behind this (as far as I understand) is given a particular NIC, you can plug a different MII PHY into it, and use the card with a different medium. Eg, get a Fibre, 10-BaseT, 100-BaseTX, or 100-BaseT4 PHY, and plug in to the wire. Hope that helps. -- Peter. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 02:20:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA25929 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:20:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from core.acroal.com (firewall0.acroal.com [209.24.61.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA25922 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:20:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@core.acroal.com) Received: from localhost (freebsd@localhost) by core.acroal.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA01424; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:19:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@core.acroal.com) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:19:57 -0800 (PST) From: FreeBSD Hacker To: Jim Bryant cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Informix on FreeBSD (maybe) (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199712300641.AAA04909@unix.tfs.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Ok guys, first I'll say I've spent the last week trying to get PostGreSQL to work with windows, unsuccessfully. Second, I think that the bottom line is that FreeBSD needs to have its own integrated database system based on noone elses technology. This will be a winner, because we all know that anything written by and specifically for the community is going to be 10x more efficient than any 2 bit half-ass commercial port. Also since freebsd is strong on the ISP community this will serve to strengthen it there as I hear that ISP billing systems are a very big deal these days (mucho dolores). So bottom line is a DBMS built 10% into freebsd substructure that can run on PC hardware 5x faster that commericial products under NotTested is going to be the choice of professionals as long as it supports some in place communication with windows (read: Interfaces like some commercial, preferably MS product to winbloze machines, i.e let ms write the OpenDataBaseCrap for you.) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 02:50:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA27655 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:50:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from omega.noc.easynet.net (omega.noc.easynet.net [193.131.248.227]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA27317 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:45:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chrisy@omega.noc.easynet.net) Received: (qmail 16061 invoked by uid 1001); 6 Jan 1998 10:45:20 -0000 Message-ID: <19980106104520.25045@flix.net> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:45:20 +0000 From: Chrisy Luke To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Multipath Routing. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 Organization: The Flirble Internet Exchange X-URL: http://www.flix.net/ X-FTP: ftp://ftp.flirble.org/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk This is a scouting survey to see if anyone else is interested in what I've been playing with... I'm just finishing off a pretty neat kernel hack I started last week to implement multipath routing in the BSD kernel, using FreeBSD as my development base. Not much has changed across the BSD's or time to the code I've changed so it should be portable to other BSD's quite easily. What it changes is the rule that an entry in the routing table can only have one next-hop gateway. Unlike Sun's implementation of the same. this load balances across the installed gateways for a route. Sun's method merely allowed two nodes in the patricia tree to have the same network and netmask. On route lookup, it finds the first one and disregards any others. You end up with a routing table that looks something like: chrisy@om[~]> netstat -rn Routing tables Internet: Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expire default UGSc 3 138832 193.131.248.183 46278 fxp0 *193.131.248.254 46277 fxp0 193.131.248.186 46277 fxp0 127.0.0.1 *127.0.0.1 UH 0 2 lo0 193.131.248 *link#1 UC 0 0 193.131.248.2 *0:0:f8:30:2:4b UHLW 0 13785 fxp0 1198 193.131.248.24 *0:0:c0:53:22:e4 UHLW 0 1 fxp0 697 193.131.248.97 *8:0:3:22:47:ae UHLW 0 0 fxp0 572 193.131.248.173 *0:0:c0:3a:22:e4 UHLW 0 772 fxp0 782 193.131.248.179 *0:0:c0:b0:3b:e7 UHLW 0 0 fxp0 1081 193.131.248.180 *8:0:3:23:15:e5 UHLW 0 0 fxp0 571 193.131.248.183 *0:0:c0:78:22:e4 UHLW 4 0 fxp0 682 193.131.248.185 *0:0:c0:6e:22:e4 UHLW 0 0 fxp0 1194 193.131.248.186 *0:0:c0:9c:b1:e3 UHLW 2 0 fxp0 1170 193.131.248.187 *0:0:c0:5c:10:dc UHLW 0 0 fxp0 1198 193.131.248.254 *0:0:f8:30:98:a8 UHLW 4 6076 fxp0 1184 195.40.1 UGSc 0 0 *193.131.248.183 0 fxp0 193.131.248.186 0 fxp0 Note the subtle changes. The '*' that preceeds some of the Gateway fields shows the target of the next packet to hit ip_output() and is destined for that network. Note also that each gateway has it's own Use and netif field. Unfortunately it required quite a bastardisation of the PF_ROUTE protocol, so all routing tools needed to be modified. I'm presently convincing gated that it wants to talk multipath too, where the largest benefits lie. My prime intention for this feature is in a core-of-the-network scenario where an IP network has a number of unix nodes and a unix-based set of BGP speakers, with multiple core routers. These core routers are the default routes for your regular unix nodes. Using Router discovery, you can identify all of thse core routers, but it only ever uses the one with the lowest IP address. That router sees all of the load and the others remain idle. This will remove that imbalance. If anyone is interested, I'll put my patches up (they are in beta form at present - there don't appear to be any leaks but I won't know for sure until gated loads a full routing table onto it... :-) Cheers, Chris. -- == chris@easynet.net, chrisy@flix.net, chrisy@flirble.org. == Head of Systems for Easynet Group PLC. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 02:57:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA28115 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:57:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hammer.ipaper.com (hammer.ipaper.com [206.98.137.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA28111 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:57:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from com-pipp01 (node27.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.27]) by hammer.ipaper.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA27709; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 04:58:09 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980106171633.0068c350@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 17:16:33 -0200 To: BRUN Philippe From: Capriotti Subject: Re: Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <34B27920@brteec1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Isn't this set at BIOS Setup ? I remember seeing an option "Memory hole 15-16 MB" on several BIOS. At 10:24 06/01/98 PST, you wrote: > >Salut, > My machine has 32 Mbyte of RAM > I have 3 isa cards mapped beetween 15 Mb et 16 Mb > I have a problem with address beetween 15 Mb et 16 Mb, this Ram exist in >the system and in isa card > I want to create a hole in the system memory to use isa card Ram for these >address > How do I proceed with FREEBSD 2.2.5 ? > > > TIA > --------------------------------------------------------- > Philippe BRUN > EEC > BP15 F-91222 > Bretigny s/Orge Cedex > France > Tel:+33 01 69 88 72 78 > Fax:+33 01 69 88 73 33 > e-mail: philippe.brun@eurocontrol.fr > --------------------------------------------------------- > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 03:23:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA29948 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 03:23:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA29942 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 03:23:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA18760; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 03:23:23 -0800 (PST) To: FreeBSD Hacker cc: Jim Bryant , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Informix on FreeBSD (maybe) (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Jan 1998 02:19:57 PST." Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 03:23:23 -0800 Message-ID: <18756.884085803@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk All sounds good to me - who have you got lined up to actually implement this integrated database system? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 04:06:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA03468 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 04:06:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA03449 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 04:06:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.4) with UUCP id MAA12336; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:04:06 GMT Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:53:08 GMT X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199712300641.AAA04909@unix.tfs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:54:03 +0000 To: FreeBSD Hacker From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: Informix on FreeBSD (maybe) (fwd) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk At 10:19 am +0000 6/1/98, FreeBSD Hacker wrote: >Ok guys, first I'll say I've spent the last week trying to get PostGreSQL >to work with windows, unsuccessfully.[etc] Have a look at MySQL/MyODBC. We've been having great success with them. -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 05:10:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA08888 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 05:10:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp10.portal.net.au [202.12.71.110]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA08791 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 05:09:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA00382 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:33:40 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801061303.XAA00382@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 23:33:39 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk This appears to have been lost in the christmastime mail mangle... Some people may remember the 'splashkit' I did for 2.2 systems early last year. After not a little tinkering, I've adapted this for 3.0. Rather than requring the bitmap be compiled into the kernel (although still supporting this), the new code uses a new "extras" section placed after the kernel but before the symbol table by the bootloader. This "extras" section can be used for other items as well, not being restricted to just the splash image. The kernel.config file is a good example of this. (Some work is needed to support the extras region in the kzip environment, but it can be done.) Before bundling and releasing this (or just plastering it into -current 8) I'm looking for: - Testers. Naturally, I need people to find my bugs. 8) - A better image format. The DIB (.BMP) format is relatively easy to work with, but a 320x200x8 image runs the best part of 64k, which is slow to load from floppy and wastes valuable core. - More video mode support. 320x200 is OK, 640x480 would be a minimal requirement otherwise. If there's anyone interested, I'll roll some diffs and put them out for playing with. The extras section: The extras section uses two new fields in the bootinfo structure, but should reduce the need for more of these additions in the future. These fields point to the base of the extras region and give its length respectively. Each entry in the extras region has a two-word header. The first word is a key value describing the contents of the region, the second gives the data length of the region in bytes. The extras region is terminated by a header with the key value 0. Support for this region adds a small amount of extra code to the bootblock, an extra accounting for the region in locore.S (to correctly locate the end of the kernel), and a lookup function (which I have placed in machdep.c for want of a more appropriate location). The nature of the extras region makes it easy to relocate (in the kzip case), and it should be straightforward to adapt the netboot code similarly. Comments? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 05:11:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA08959 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 05:11:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hammer.ipaper.com (hammer.ipaper.com [206.98.137.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA08955 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 05:11:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from com-pipp01 (node65.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.65]) by hammer.ipaper.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA16587 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:12:29 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980106111025.0068aeec@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 11:10:25 -0200 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Capriotti Subject: X based Free installation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hey, folks. Is there any plan to make a X based installation for FreeBSD ? I've been thinking: It could make things easyer for those ppl - like me - who have in-depth WINDOS background. Of course further details like "Do you want this machine to be an NFS Server ?" or "Do you want this machine to be an NFS Client ?" and other may still bbe a problem, but this is another step. I was VERY frustrated when I first tryed to install Free (Back to 2.1 version) and I just couldn't, because it wouldn't recognize my IDE CD-ROM drive, and there was no clue why... then, when I was able to get the CD working (long time and several attempts latter), I got very confused about those new and hermetic concepts, info and language. And I was not exactly a rookie. Today's instasllation (2.2.1) is a bit better, more user friendly, but I guess it can get better. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 05:15:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA09331 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 05:15:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [209.47.148.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA09325 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 05:15:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.8.8/8.7.5) with SMTP id IAA00619; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:13:07 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:13:05 -0500 (EST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: FreeBSD Hacker cc: Jim Bryant , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Informix on FreeBSD (maybe) (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, FreeBSD Hacker wrote: > > Ok guys, first I'll say I've spent the last week trying to get PostGreSQL > to work with windows, unsuccessfully. There is, of course, a more appropriate forum for bringing up this sort of question...I know ppl are accessing PostgreSQL using ODBC drivers from Windows, and have been for over a year now... Try posting something to pgsql-questions@postgresql.org instead of freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org and you just *might* get an answer... From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 05:40:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA11387 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 05:40:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA11380 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 05:40:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id HAA25629; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:40:18 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id HAA24288; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:40:17 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980106074017.26436@mcs.net> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:40:17 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: FreeBSD Hacker , Jim Bryant , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Informix on FreeBSD (maybe) (fwd) References: <18756.884085803@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <18756.884085803@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Tue, Jan 06, 1998 at 03:23:23AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, Jan 06, 1998 at 03:23:23AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > All sounds good to me - who have you got lined up to actually > implement this integrated database system? :-) > > Jordan Actually, from what I can see Postgresql looks pretty good... ask me again in a couple of months once I have a real production-style load on it. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 06:25:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA15179 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 06:25:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wakko.visint.co.uk (wakko.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA15166 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 06:25:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from steve@visint.co.uk) Received: from dylan.visint.co.uk (dylan.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.180]) by wakko.visint.co.uk (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA00941; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:31:46 GMT Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:24:45 +0000 (GMT) From: Stephen Roome To: Joel Ray Holveck cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Weird malloc problem. In-Reply-To: <199801060618.AAA04044@detlev.UUCP> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > IIRC (and I'm no expert), it is possible to sbrk your processes' > entire addressable memory space (all 2^32 bits), and never use it. Not very logical though that I can allocate more memory than I have. To me at least. > However, when you actually try to use it, then you get a core dump (I > think a SIGSEGV). So, you call malloc, which sbrk's the block plus > its overhead. Then malloc then puts its own before the block. At > that point, then a actual page of virtual memory is assigned to the > block, not before. So, sbrk gets how much memory it can have from getrlimit, and what's happened is that I've been able to set either the soft or hard limit beyond some other more realistic limit which the vm system must already surely know about. So, does someone want to explain WHY getrlimit doesn't ask the relavent parts of the kernel before it decides what limits it will set for the user? Actually, as someone just pointed out, it's fine to set the limits to anything, but malloc should never think it suceeded in allocating virtual memory which clearly just doesn't exist! Steve -- Steve Roome - Vision Interactive Ltd. Tel:+44(0)117 9730597 Home:+44(0)976 241342 WWW: http://dylan.visint.co.uk/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 07:30:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA22168 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:30:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA21667 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:24:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA25928; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:24:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:24:42 -0500 (EST) From: Snob Art Genre To: Capriotti cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X based Free installation In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980106111025.0068aeec@pop.mpc.com.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Capriotti wrote: > Today's instasllation (2.2.1) is a bit better, more user friendly, but I > guess it can get better. Have you tried the 2.2.5 install? Some friends of mine said it was a significant improvement over the 2.2.1 install. Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 07:39:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA22955 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:39:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lsd.relcom.eu.net (ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net [193.124.23.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA22894 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:39:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net) Received: (from ache@localhost) by lsd.relcom.eu.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA02641; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:38:10 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from ache) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:38:08 +0300 (MSK) From: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= X-Sender: ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net To: Johan Larsson cc: Brian Handy , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tcsh question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Johan Larsson wrote: > This is a problem with the port. One solution is to install the port, then > compile tcsh _without_ patches (just right out of the box) and install > just the tcsh binary! This will make it all work. The port is damaged. If you compile not a port, you just don't compile in NLS support. Of course the bug will be gone in this case but with functionality reducing. I prefer somebody really trace it down instead. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.pp.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 08:03:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA25419 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:03:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fax.ceniai.inf.cu (fax.ceniai.inf.cu [169.158.128.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA25383 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:02:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ogaspar@jcce.org.cu) Received: from ceniai.inf.cu by fax.ceniai.inf.cu with esmtp (Smail3.2) id m0xpbS8-000NMFC; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:02:04 -0500 (CST) Received: from gateway.jcce.org.cu by ceniai.inf.cu with smtp (Smail3.2) id m0xpbXR-000AqTC; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:07:33 -0500 (CST) Received: from tinored by gateway.jcce.org.cu with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #1) id m0xpbSK-00006EC; Tue, 6 Jan 98 11:02 CST Received: by tinored (Smail3.1.28.1 #24) id m0xpbBR-00027eC; Tue, 6 Jan 98 10:44 EST Message-Id: From: ogaspar@jcce.org.cu (Omar Gaspar Navarro) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:44:49 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: CARIBE [version 3.0] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk help From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 08:11:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA26305 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:11:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hammer.ipaper.com (hammer.ipaper.com [206.98.137.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA26288 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:10:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from com-pipp01 (node19.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.19]) by hammer.ipaper.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA26149 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:07:47 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980106141532.0068a330@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 14:15:32 -0200 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Capriotti Subject: SFT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Does anyone have any news about System Fault Tolerance under Free ? Like what Novell has, from mirrowed disks to mirrowed servers ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 08:42:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA28215 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:42:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from db2server.voga.com.br (db2server.voga.com.br [200.239.39.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA28206 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:41:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from daniel_sobral@voga.com.br) From: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br Received: from papagaio.voga.com.br (papagaio.voga.com.br [200.239.39.2]) by db2server.voga.com.br (8.8.3+2.6Wbeta9/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA12192; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:38:36 -0200 Received: by papagaio.voga.com.br(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.06 (346.7 3-18-1997)) id 03256584.0060E81B ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:38:28 -0300 X-Lotus-FromDomain: VOGA To: julian@whistle.com cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <83256584.00604E1E.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:38:24 -0300 Subject: Re: Device Driver Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > * Regarding major/minor number (I don't quite grok > > that yet), may I suppose the script did the right > > thing (current system)? > for now, yes.. > it will have assigned you the 'experimental device' number. The driver is for a very unusual device (a cryptography card), and I don't know if it will be released under Berkeley license (I'm writing it for someone else). Should I just leave it with the experimental device number after having finished it or what? > Minor numbers are so a device driver can tell apart it's devices. > Major numbers are so the system can tell which driver to assign > to the device. Is this in any man page? So concise... :-) And, btw, what happens when devfs becomes the name of the game? -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 08:42:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA28222 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:42:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from db2server.voga.com.br (db2server.voga.com.br [200.239.39.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA27717 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:35:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from daniel_sobral@voga.com.br) From: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br Received: from papagaio.voga.com.br (papagaio.voga.com.br [200.239.39.2]) by db2server.voga.com.br (8.8.3+2.6Wbeta9/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA10104; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:31:48 -0200 Received: by papagaio.voga.com.br(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.06 (346.7 3-18-1997)) id 03256584.00604952 ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:31:42 -0300 X-Lotus-FromDomain: VOGA To: mike@smith.net.au cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <83256584.005F6BFE.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:31:38 -0300 Subject: Re: Device Driver Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > * My device driver should be used mainly by other > > kernel routines. How should I proceed? Is there a > > standard interface or something? > You need to be more specific about this before it's > possible to give a really useful answer. Look at the > network drivers and disk drivers for two sorts of > drivers that are used primarily by other kernel code. My mind got a panic with the Too Many Files error, and, unfortunately, its debugging tools are almost non-existant, and very time-consuming to use... ;-) Anyway, bpf.c helped with my first question (how to deal with the sloooooow i/o), and Julian's answer dealt with the third. So, let's put the second question (above) in another way. The card I'm writing a device for is a cryptography card. It will be using by networking code (not mine) directly in kernel. So, the device will be accessed most of the time from other parts of the kernel. Now, I understand cdevsw and bdevsw provide a standard interface between the device and userland processes, but is there any kind of standard interface for use by other routines in-kernel? -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 08:44:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA28471 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:44:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA28431 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:44:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gozer@ludd.luth.se) Received: from kryten.ludd.luth.se (gozer@kryten.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.6]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01410; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:43:02 +0100 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:42:58 +0100 (MET) From: Johan Larsson To: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= cc: Brian Handy , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tcsh question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, [KOI8-R] áÎÄÒÅÊ þÅÒÎÏ× wrote: > On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Johan Larsson wrote: > > > This is a problem with the port. One solution is to install the port, then > > compile tcsh _without_ patches (just right out of the box) and install > > just the tcsh binary! This will make it all work. The port is damaged. > > If you compile not a port, you just don't compile in NLS support. > Of course the bug will be gone in this case but with functionality > reducing. I prefer somebody really trace it down instead. So you mean that echo $version that gives: tcsh 6.07.02 (Astron) 1996-10-27 (i386-intel-FreeBSD) options 8b,nls,dl,al,rh doesn't mean that nls is supported? If not, my apology, otherwise i think that the tcsh should be switched back to 6.06 (because what i know of that it works and doesn't have any major faults :) Johan -- * mailto:gozer@ludd.luth.se * http://www.ludd.luth.se/users/gozer/ * * Powered by FreeBSD. http://www.se.freebsd.org/ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ * From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 08:57:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA29489 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:57:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hammer.ipaper.com (hammer.ipaper.com [206.98.137.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA29430 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:56:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from com-pipp01 (node19.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.19]) by hammer.ipaper.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA06444 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:58:06 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980106145524.006920cc@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 14:55:24 -0200 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Capriotti Subject: Which free Unix for an embedded system? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi. Remember that topic ?? It was discussed on Usenet, but I think it is worth sending you this question: How reliable is FreeBSD to handle mission-critical tasks ? Supposing that you have a perfect application running under Free, would any of you guys install, for instance, FreeBSD on the Souhorney's computers ? Or maybe, would you rely on Free a medical application to aid surgeries ? I know it may sound strange, but maybe Free can also be an *exelent* option for robots and other alike. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 09:00:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA29877 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:00:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from TomQNX.tomqnx.com (ott-pm6-09.comnet.ca [206.75.140.169]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA29723 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:59:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@tomqnx.com) Received: from tomqnx.com by TomQNX.tomqnx.com with esmtp (Smail3.2 #1) id m0xpcHy-000A9JC; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:55:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34B26208.773F9E85@tomqnx.com> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 11:55:36 -0500 From: Tom Torrance X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: bsd.port.mk error Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------CDD5838AB72404ACF6CDC16F" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------CDD5838AB72404ACF6CDC16F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is a minor error which prevents over-riding the existance in distfiles of a corrupt file to force downloading of the latest version. The attached diff fixes it. The 'tix' distribution on my 2.2.5R cdrom was corrupt. -- mailto:tomNO@SPAMtomqnx.com Tom Torrance 27 Dayton Cr., Nepean Ont., Canada K2H 7N8 My opinions are personal, and not those of my employer. --------------CDD5838AB72404ACF6CDC16F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="dist" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="dist" *** /usr/src/share/mk/bsd.port.mk Fri Jan 2 12:47:01 1998 --- bsd.port.mk Tue Jan 6 11:25:43 1998 *************** *** 620,627 **** # Search CDROM first if mounted, symlink instead of copy if # FETCH_SYMLINK_DISTFILES is set .if exists(/cdrom/ports/distfiles) ! MASTER_SITES:= file:/cdrom/ports/distfiles/${DIST_SUBDIR}/ ${MASTER_SITES} ! PATCH_SITES:= file:/cdrom/ports/distfiles/${DIST_SUBDIR}/ ${PATCH_SITES} .if defined(FETCH_SYMLINK_DISTFILES) FETCH_BEFORE_ARGS+= -l .endif --- 620,627 ---- # Search CDROM first if mounted, symlink instead of copy if # FETCH_SYMLINK_DISTFILES is set .if exists(/cdrom/ports/distfiles) ! MASTER_SITES:= file:${PORTSDIR}/distfiles/${DIST_SUBDIR}/ ${MASTER_SITES} ! PATCH_SITES:= file:${PORTSDIR}/distfiles/${DIST_SUBDIR}/ ${PATCH_SITES} .if defined(FETCH_SYMLINK_DISTFILES) FETCH_BEFORE_ARGS+= -l .endif --------------CDD5838AB72404ACF6CDC16F-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 09:15:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA01299 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:15:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lsd.relcom.eu.net (ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net [193.124.23.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA01211 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:15:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net) Received: (from ache@localhost) by lsd.relcom.eu.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA03822; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:14:58 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from ache) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:14:56 +0300 (MSK) From: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= X-Sender: ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net To: Johan Larsson cc: Brian Handy , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tcsh question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Johan Larsson wrote: > So you mean that echo $version that gives: > tcsh 6.07.02 (Astron) 1996-10-27 (i386-intel-FreeBSD) options 8b,nls,dl,al,rh > > doesn't mean that nls is supported? If not, my apology, otherwise i think Besides nls compiled in, you'll need to have message catalogs installed and picked properly by NLS. I think if you just delete tcsh message catalog, the bug wil gone. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.pp.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 09:29:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA02873 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:29:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA02828 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:28:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA00728; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:28:45 -0800 (PST) To: Capriotti cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X based Free installation In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Jan 1998 11:10:25 -0200." <3.0.1.32.19980106111025.0068aeec@pop.mpc.com.br> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 09:28:45 -0800 Message-ID: <724.884107725@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Is there any plan to make a X based installation for FreeBSD ? Nope. Too much trouble and bootstrapping the user into an X server, even a 16 color one, is also a non-trivial exercise, especially from a 1.44MB boot floppy (though I suppose you could stay out of X until you got your media pipe open and could suck over a 2nd-stage install and its infrastructure). In any case, every one of the other 5000 or so times this exact same question has come up, I've generally said the same thing: If somebody really feels like they have the cojones to sit down and implement something like this, submitting a viable proof-of-concept to me or anyone else on the FreeBSD development team, we'll be more than happy to look at it! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 10:37:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA08985 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:37:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tbird.cc.bellcore.com (tbird.cc.bellcore.com [128.96.96.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA08981 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:37:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from khansen@njcc.com) Received: from monolith.bellcore.com by tbird.cc.bellcore.com with SMTP id AA05338 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:31:03 -0500 Received: from khansen.cc.bellcore.com by monolith.bellcore.com (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA09693; Tue, 6 Jan 98 13:26:42 EST Message-Id: <34B2776D.7E87@njcc.com> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 13:26:53 -0500 From: Ken Hansen Reply-To: khansen@njcc.com Organization: Dis X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Capriotti , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X based Free installation References: <724.884107725@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Jordan, I was *quite* impressed with the ease of installation that the (then) current R2.2.2 Install CD provided. With that diskette and a few scraps of information regarding my local ISP I was able to take an idle 386DX/40 and a 14.4K modem and get FreeBSD up and running in a few hours! Shortly after I performed this feat I downlaoded a copy of the QNX Internet Application Toolbox kit from QNX (an OS, Windows manager and browser on one 1.44 Meg diskette) and was equally impressed. The current instal diskette is easliy as good as the install tools provided in comercial linux (Red Hat and Caldera) distributions, and the FreeBSD one even includes dial-up tools for users without a direct internet connection! A great tool, IMHO. Ken khansen@njcc.com Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Is there any plan to make a X based installation for FreeBSD ? > > Nope. Too much trouble and bootstrapping the user into an X server, > even a 16 color one, is also a non-trivial exercise, especially from a > 1.44MB boot floppy (though I suppose you could stay out of X until you > got your media pipe open and could suck over a 2nd-stage install and > its infrastructure). From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 10:42:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA09720 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:42:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cedb.dpcsys.com (cedb.dpcsys.com [206.16.184.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA09713 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:42:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@dpcsys.com) Received: from localhost (dan@localhost) by cedb.dpcsys.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with SMTP id SAA15734; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:42:08 GMT Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:42:08 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Busarow To: FreeBSD Hacker cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Informix on FreeBSD (maybe) (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, FreeBSD Hacker wrote: > Ok guys, first I'll say I've spent the last week trying to get PostGreSQL > to work with windows, unsuccessfully. Second, I think that the bottom Try mysql and myodbc. Works like a charm. Dan -- Dan Busarow 714 443 4172 DPC Systems / Beach.Net dan@dpcsys.com Dana Point, California 83 09 EF 59 E0 11 89 B4 8D 09 DB FD E1 DD 0C 82 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 10:58:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA10778 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:58:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA10758 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:58:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from handy@sag.space.lockheed.com) Received: from localhost by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA27177; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:58:19 -0800 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:58:19 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Handy To: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tcsh question In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >Besides nls compiled in, you'll need to have message catalogs installed >and picked properly by NLS. I think if you just delete tcsh message >catalog, the bug wil gone. I turned this off in config_f.h and sure enough, my scripts are working now. Thanks! If there's something I can do to help troubleshoot this, I'm willing to. Brian From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 11:28:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA12900 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:28:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from TomQNX.tomqnx.com (ott-pm6-26.comnet.ca [206.75.140.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA12805 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:27:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@tomqnx.com) Received: from tomqnx.com by TomQNX.tomqnx.com with esmtp (Smail3.2 #1) id m0xpcw1-000A10C; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:37:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34B26BBC.93BAE6EF@tomqnx.com> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 12:37:00 -0500 From: Tom Torrance X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: bsd.port.mk error Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------9F31D763851D47CCFE3A16FF" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9F31D763851D47CCFE3A16FF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is a minor error in bsd.port.mk that makes it difficult to override the existance of a corrupt entry in the cdrom distfiles distribution and force a download of the (single) file. The attached patch fixes the problem. the 'tix' distribution was corrupt on my 2.2.5R cdroms. -- mailto:tomNO@SPAMtomqnx.com Tom Torrance 27 Dayton Cr., Nepean Ont., Canada K2H 7N8 My opinions are personal, and not those of my employer. --------------9F31D763851D47CCFE3A16FF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="bsd.port.mk.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="bsd.port.mk.patch" *** /usr/src/share/mk/bsd.port.mk Fri Jan 2 12:47:01 1998 --- bsd.port.mk Tue Jan 6 11:25:43 1998 *************** *** 620,627 **** # Search CDROM first if mounted, symlink instead of copy if # FETCH_SYMLINK_DISTFILES is set .if exists(/cdrom/ports/distfiles) ! MASTER_SITES:= file:/cdrom/ports/distfiles/${DIST_SUBDIR}/ ${MASTER_SITES} ! PATCH_SITES:= file:/cdrom/ports/distfiles/${DIST_SUBDIR}/ ${PATCH_SITES} .if defined(FETCH_SYMLINK_DISTFILES) FETCH_BEFORE_ARGS+= -l .endif --- 620,627 ---- # Search CDROM first if mounted, symlink instead of copy if # FETCH_SYMLINK_DISTFILES is set .if exists(/cdrom/ports/distfiles) ! MASTER_SITES:= file:${PORTSDIR}/distfiles/${DIST_SUBDIR}/ ${MASTER_SITES} ! PATCH_SITES:= file:${PORTSDIR}/distfiles/${DIST_SUBDIR}/ ${PATCH_SITES} .if defined(FETCH_SYMLINK_DISTFILES) FETCH_BEFORE_ARGS+= -l .endif --------------9F31D763851D47CCFE3A16FF-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 11:40:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA14001 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:40:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whqvax.picker.com (whqvax.picker.com [144.54.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA13969 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:40:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rhh@ct.picker.com) Received: from ct.picker.com by whqvax.picker.com with SMTP; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:39:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from elmer.ct.picker.com by ct.picker.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22352; Tue, 6 Jan 98 14:39:37 EST Received: by elmer.ct.picker.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA18584; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:38:43 -0500 Message-Id: <19980106143843.57296@ct.picker.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:38:43 -0500 From: Randall Hopper To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Fwd: Digital UNIX on IA-64 (Merced) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Interesting... Tuesday January 6, 8:29 am Eastern Time Company Press Release SOURCE: Digital Equipment Corporation Digital and Sequent Launch Initiative For Port of Digital UNIX to Intel IA-64 For UNIX-Based Enterprise Computing Initiative Will Deliver to Customers, ISVs and OEMs the Most Interoperable UNIX on Intel IA-64 for Mixed UNIX-Microsoft Environments Single Implementation of This Operating System to Span Intel IA-64 and Alpha Architectures MAYNARD, Mass. and BEAVERTON, Ore., Jan. 6 /PRNewswire/ -- Digital Equipment Corporation (NYSE: DEC - news) and Sequent Computer Systems, Inc. (Nasdaq: SQNT - news) today announced they will collaborate on a 64-bit UNIX initiative to establish the leading UNIX on the IA-64 enterprise computing architecture, and the most interoperable UNIX with Windows NT. The 64-bit UNIX initiative is based on Digital UNIX, will add key Sequent technologies, and be augmented with joint development by the two companies. Key to the initiative will be aggressive recruitment of additional partners and licensees. As part of the initiative, Digital UNIX will be renamed to underscore the effort to create the industry's leading UNIX on Intel, and reflect Digital's commitment to partnering with other hardware vendors. Casey Powell, chairman and CEO of Sequent Computer Systems, Inc. said, ``This 64-bit UNIX initiative will deliver the only complete 64-bit UNIX on Intel IA-64. The initiative is uniquely positioned to achieve broad acceptance among enterprise-focused customers, ISVs and OEMs who require a risk-free migration path, partnership, and product integration for IA-64.'' The offering will leverage the more than 4,500 existing 64-bit Digital UNIX applications, provide binary compatibility with existing 32-bit applications, a production-ready environment for high-end applications, integral UNIX-Microsoft integration, and an open requirements process for OEM partners. In addition, a source migration path will be available for current 32-bit UNIX vendors who participate in this initiative. The 64-bit UNIX initiative will be based on Digital UNIX, the industry's leading 64-bit operating system, and will continue to be owned by Digital. The joint development effort will integrate key technology from Sequent's DYNIX/ptx IA-32 UNIX operating system, including Non-Uniform Memory Access (NUMA) technology, and draw on the engineering expertise of both companies. Sequent has delivered high-end systems based on the Intel architecture since 1984. Robert B. Palmer, Digital chairman, president and chief executive officer, said, ``We are pleased to welcome Sequent as our first partner in creating the leading UNIX for Intel's 64-bit architecture. Together with Sequent and future partners, we intend to lead the market for 64-bit UNIX by delivering the best enterprise UNIX on Intel, the best path to Merced for customers and ISVs, and proven UNIX-Microsoft interoperability.'' Complete Compatibility This 64-bit UNIX initiative will provide: A full range of compatibility for source and binary code. A single implementation across Intel IA-64 and Alpha to ensure functional equivalence and 100 percent source compatibility across the two architectures. 100 percent binary compatibility for ISV and customer applications. As a result, a binary application developed on any IA-64 system will run on all vendors' IA-64 systems running this enhanced operating system. Support for running 32-bit binary applications unmodified. In addition, Digital and Sequent will jointly develop a source-compatible environment, initially on top of Sequent ptx, to provide Sequent and other OEM customers with forward compatibility for source code written on their 32-bit systems. This initiative will offer the only UNIX with little endian Intel byte- order compatibility across both Intel and RISC (Alpha) implementations. This makes smooth forward migration of applications possible with a simple re- compile. John Miner, vice president and general manager of Intel Corporation [Nasdaq:INTC - news]'s Enterprise Server Group said, ``With Merced, the Intel architecture is becoming a unifying platform for enterprise computing environments. In this industry- wide endeavor, Digital and Sequent each bring a strong history of technology and partnering capabilities for high-end UNIX solutions with strong Windows NT integration.'' Sequent Chairman Powell added, ``We chose to partner with Digital for this 64-bit UNIX initiative because it gives our customers a production-quality operating system with thousands of 64-bit applications at the launch of Merced, 32-bit compatibility looking back, and Windows NT integration looking forward. That's what we needed -- what any enterprise OEM needs -- and only Digital offered it. I'll give you an example. With Solaris, Sun offered Sequent a low-end Intel environment which has a long way to go before it approaches where Solaris-on-SPARC is today. And, at Sun, the commitment clearly isn't there for NT integration.'' Gary Bloom, Oracle Corporation's [Nasdaq:ORCL - news] senior vice president for Alliances and Products, said, ``This 64-bit UNIX initiative is an important event for the enterprise UNIX marketplace, where consolidation is creating a few very strong players. Oracle supports this effort based on the strength of Digital and Sequent in the enterprise. Oracle's Network Computing Architecture will fully exploit the interoperability of this enhanced operating system to provide an ideal platform for applications, enabling lower cost of ownership and high performance. We expect that other ISVs and OEM partners will find this 64-bit UNIX initiative extremely appealing. This offers proven technology, a smooth migration path, and a robust, scalable environment for Merced.'' Commitment To UNIX Leadership On Alpha And Intel Digital Chairman Palmer added, ``This announcement reinforces Digital's long-term strategic commitment to UNIX on both Alpha and Intel. We already have more than five years of experience in delivering high-performance, 64-bit UNIX solutions on Alpha. In other words, customers and ISVs have an immediate path to 64-bit enterprise computing. With the availability of 64-bit UNIX on both Alpha and Intel, they will have access to the broadest range of high- performance solutions in the industry.'' Leader In UNIX/Microsoft Integration This initiative will offer leading integration for UNIX and Windows NT, a world-class integrated development environment, middleware and infrastructure products. Digital, as a leader in Windows NT systems integration and interoperability, offers customers a head start in UNIX/Windows NT bridging technologies. These technologies will be available to OEMs who adopt this initiative. UNIX and Windows NT integration and interoperability will be a focus of future Digital/Sequent joint development, leveraging Sequent's expertise in achieving high-performance, scalability, and availability on Intel-based systems. About Sequent Computer Systems, Inc. Sequent Computer Systems is a global leader in enterprise-wide, open IT systems, delivering scalable, flexible, data center solutions. Sequent's solutions are based on breakthrough NUMA-Q architecture, which supports UNIX, Windows NT, or mixed environments; a comprehensive portfolio of proven programs and services; and an established set of partnerships with the industry's best-in-class. Sequent minimizes customers' risk, enabling integration of computing infrastructure and implementation of complex, business-critical applications. More than 8,500 installations house Sequent systems, including many of the world's largest and most sophisticated OLTP, DSS, business communications, and RDBMS applications. About Digital Equipment Corporation Digital Equipment Corporation, recognized for product and service excellence, is a leading supplier of high-performance, Web-based computing solutions which help enterprises compete in the global marketplace. Digital gives its customers a winning Internet advantage through a comprehensive portfolio of Internet solutions based on award-winning systems, advanced networking infrastructure, innovative software, and industry applications - including those from business partners. The expertise and experience of Digital employees help customers plan, design, implement, manage and support Internet solutions in countries throughout the world. For the latest company information, visit Digital on the World Wide Web at http://www.digital.com and/or http://www.newsdesk.com. NOTE: Digital and the Digital logo are trademarks of Digital Equipment Corporation. Sequent is a registered trademark and NUMA-Q is a trademark of Sequent Computer Systems, Inc. Intel and Pentium are registered trademarks of Intel Corporation. UNIX is a registered trademark in the United States and other countries, licensed exclusively to X/Open Company Ltd. All other brand and product names appearing in this release are registered trademarks or trademarks of their respective holders. SOURCE: Digital Equipment Corporation Regards, Gary Hayden Account Representative Digital Equipment Corporation 2500 Citywest Boulevard, Suite 1000 Houston, TX 77042 __________________________________ 281-265-2806 Telephone 281-265-2823 Fax 713-607-8866 Pager Gary.Hayden@digital.com Internet From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 11:50:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA14791 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:50:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA14786 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:50:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA22793; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:45:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd022786; Tue Jan 6 11:45:30 1998 Message-ID: <34B28925.2781E494@whistle.com> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 11:42:29 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chrisy Luke CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multipath Routing. References: <19980106104520.25045@flix.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Chrisy Luke wrote: > > This is a scouting survey to see if anyone else is interested in what > I've been playing with... > > I'm just finishing off a pretty neat kernel hack I started last week to > implement multipath routing in the BSD kernel, using FreeBSD as my > development base. Not much has changed across the BSD's or time to the > code I've changed so it should be portable to other BSD's quite easily. > > What it changes is the rule that an entry in the routing table can > only have one next-hop gateway. Unlike Sun's implementation of the > same. this load balances across the installed gateways for a route. > Sun's method merely allowed two nodes in the patricia tree to have the same > network and netmask. On route lookup, it finds the first one and disregards > any others. > > You end up with a routing table that looks something like: > > chrisy@om[~]> netstat -rn > Routing tables so can different routes have different metrics? > > Internet: > Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expire > default UGSc 3 138832 > 193.131.248.183 46278 fxp0 > *193.131.248.254 46277 fxp0 > 193.131.248.186 46277 fxp0 > 127.0.0.1 *127.0.0.1 UH 0 2 lo0 > 193.131.248 *link#1 UC 0 0 > 193.131.248.2 *0:0:f8:30:2:4b UHLW 0 13785 fxp0 1198 > 193.131.248.24 *0:0:c0:53:22:e4 UHLW 0 1 fxp0 697 > 193.131.248.97 *8:0:3:22:47:ae UHLW 0 0 fxp0 572 > 193.131.248.173 *0:0:c0:3a:22:e4 UHLW 0 772 fxp0 782 > 193.131.248.179 *0:0:c0:b0:3b:e7 UHLW 0 0 fxp0 1081 > 193.131.248.180 *8:0:3:23:15:e5 UHLW 0 0 fxp0 571 > 193.131.248.183 *0:0:c0:78:22:e4 UHLW 4 0 fxp0 682 > 193.131.248.185 *0:0:c0:6e:22:e4 UHLW 0 0 fxp0 1194 > 193.131.248.186 *0:0:c0:9c:b1:e3 UHLW 2 0 fxp0 1170 > 193.131.248.187 *0:0:c0:5c:10:dc UHLW 0 0 fxp0 1198 > 193.131.248.254 *0:0:f8:30:98:a8 UHLW 4 6076 fxp0 1184 > 195.40.1 UGSc 0 0 > *193.131.248.183 0 fxp0 > 193.131.248.186 0 fxp0 > > Note the subtle changes. The '*' that preceeds some of the Gateway fields > shows the target of the next packet to hit ip_output() and is destined for > that network. Note also that each gateway has it's own Use and netif field. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 12:23:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA17692 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:23:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA17683 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:23:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.2/nospam) with UUCP id VAA26963 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:22:56 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.8/keltia-2.13/nospam) id UAA18748; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:53:38 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980106205338.32583@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:53:38 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: References: <34B27920@brteec1> <3.0.1.32.19980106171633.0068c350@pop.mpc.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980106171633.0068c350@pop.mpc.com.br>; from Capriotti on Tue, Jan 06, 1998 at 05:16:33PM -0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3945 AMD-K6 MMX @ 208 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk According to Capriotti: > Isn't this set at BIOS Setup ? I remember seeing an option "Memory hole > 15-16 MB" on several BIOS. When Philippe does that, the upper 16 MB disappear and are not seen by FreeBSD. He will have to fiddle with the memory map to move the 1 MB window elsewhere (à la ISA hole between 640 and 1024 KB). -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #26: Thu Jan 1 20:29:10 CET 1998 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 12:51:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA19763 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:51:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (d182-89.uoregon.edu [128.223.182.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA19749 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:51:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA08103; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:51:18 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19980106125118.57848@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:51:18 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: change of location... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk well... I've significantly upgraded my inet access... (10mbit ethernet to a T3)... and with this change, I haven't yet gotten to fix resnet.uoregon.edu to redirect requests yet... so the new location of the bus/device spec is at: http://d182-89.uoregon.edu/~jmg/FreeBSD/busdevice.html enjoy! -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 12:59:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA20456 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:59:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA20451 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:59:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA00825; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:58:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd000779; Tue Jan 6 13:58:51 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA10023; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:58:37 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199801062058.NAA10023@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:58:37 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801061303.XAA00382@word.smith.net.au> from "Mike Smith" at Jan 6, 98 11:33:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Before bundling and releasing this (or just plastering it into -current > 8) I'm looking for: > > - Testers. Naturally, I need people to find my bugs. 8) > > - A better image format. The DIB (.BMP) format is relatively easy to > work with, but a 320x200x8 image runs the best part of 64k, which is > slow to load from floppy and wastes valuable core. ... > Comments? Actually, I'd suggest sticking with the format Windows 95 uses; that would let you use all of the splash screens that people have made for Windows 95. I kind of like the idea of being able to use the color cycle animations, as well... maybe next rev? Also, you might want to consider delaying until ELF kernels; that would let you put the image in an ELF section. Alternately, put a file called "bootimage" (or whatever) in "/" where the boot help resides, and read it out of the FS. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 13:17:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA22185 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:17:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA22161 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:17:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA04903; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd004859; Tue Jan 6 14:16:52 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA11031; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:16:50 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199801062116.OAA11031@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: SFT To: capriotti@geocities.com (Capriotti) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:16:50 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980106141532.0068a330@pop.mpc.com.br> from "Capriotti" at Jan 6, 98 02:15:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Does anyone have any news about System Fault Tolerance under Free ? > > Like what Novell has, from mirrowed disks to mirrowed servers ? You mean "software fault tolerance". There is a project under Linux, I believe. I don't expect it to bear fruit any time soon. The first release of the stuff at Novell took more than 6 years to get working. Anecdote: During one of the early demos of SFT at Novell, the demo was to drop an anvil on one machine and have the failover operate transparently. One time, the anvil dropped, and, since they were using thinwire at the time, the anvil crushed the ethernet card and shorted the thinwire. After that, the demo used two cards. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 13:18:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA22261 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:18:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA21728 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:13:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01103; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:13:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd001039; Tue Jan 6 14:12:50 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA10782; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:12:46 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199801062112.OAA10782@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Weird malloc problem. To: steve@visint.co.uk (Stephen Roome) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:12:46 +0000 (GMT) Cc: joelh@gnu.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Stephen Roome" at Jan 6, 98 02:24:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > IIRC (and I'm no expert), it is possible to sbrk your processes' > > entire addressable memory space (all 2^32 bits), and never use it. > > Not very logical though that I can allocate more memory than I have. > To me at least. Actually it's very reasonable. There are many reasons why you might want a discontinuous virtual address space, where not all pages are backed by real pages. For one, you might want to implement statistical data protection (a one out of 2^20th chance of someone guessing your page), etc.. This would be highly useful to avoid protection domain crossing in an OS simulator, etc.. There are other reasons. Maybe you want a "perfect" hash into memory, but will store some finite (small) number of hashed objects. Maybe you are going to rfork, and you want to be able to marshal data between "kernel threads" using an IPC mechanism instead of a heavyweight mechanism for reinstancing them (like Microsoft screwed up and required by putting instanced OLE/ActiveX interfaces in thread local storage)... and to do that, you need to ensure that the address space will not be private -- and you do that by preallocating it before the first rfork(). There's lots of other examples that I won't bore you with; suffice to say, it *can* be a useful thing to do. > Actually, as someone just pointed out, it's fine to set the limits to > anything, but malloc should never think it suceeded in allocating virtual > memory which clearly just doesn't exist! This is a standard feature of memory overcommit. Other standard features are: (1) The process that can't get the new page dies, even though it may be the longest running process on your system. (2) When you are using an executable file as a swap store, and the image is on a remote FS, if the server goes down, your machine hangs in paging in via the vnode pager until the server comes back up. (3) When you are doing #2, the VEXEC bit can't be set on the NFS server, and therefore the image you are using as swap store can be overwritten by another NFS client, or by the server process, and your application can crash catastrophically (including doing such things as deleting all your files, if the new image's code is juuuuuuust right). (4) You can't do a system suspend/resume, unless you have a seperate disk area for backing your primary RAM and restart information, in addition to the SWAP space. Etc.. Overall, with the exception of "committed" applications and remote FS vagries (which I think should be fixed, since they are fixable), memory overcommit is worth the trouble it causes. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 13:59:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA26510 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:59:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp10.portal.net.au [202.12.71.110]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA26405 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:58:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA01368; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:21:11 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801062151.IAA01368@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br cc: mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Device Driver In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Jan 1998 14:31:38 -0300." <83256584.005F6BFE.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 08:21:11 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > The card I'm writing a device for is a cryptography card. It will be using > by networking code (not mine) directly in kernel. So, the device will be > accessed most of the time from other parts of the kernel. I guess, again, it depends on how you plan to use the card, and how the card has to be talked to. Will you be using it to perform end-to-end encryption on sockets? How about encrypting the entire contents of ethernet datagrams? Is the output of the card complete in itself, or does it encrypt streams of data? > Now, I understand cdevsw and bdevsw provide a standard interface between > the device and userland processes, but is there any kind of standard > interface for use by other routines in-kernel? Again, that depends on how you talk to it. Sometimes you will use the standard device entries (if you plan to use those semantics from elsewhere in the kernel), and sometimes you need other interfaces. "More input?" -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 14:05:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA27656 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:05:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp10.portal.net.au [202.12.71.110]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA27481 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:05:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA01441; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:28:33 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801062158.IAA01441@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Terry Lambert cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Jan 1998 20:58:37 -0000." <199801062058.NAA10023@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 08:28:32 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Before bundling and releasing this (or just plastering it into -current > > 8) I'm looking for: > > > > - Testers. Naturally, I need people to find my bugs. 8) > > > > - A better image format. The DIB (.BMP) format is relatively easy to > > work with, but a 320x200x8 image runs the best part of 64k, which is > > slow to load from floppy and wastes valuable core. > > .... > > > Comments? > > Actually, I'd suggest sticking with the format Windows 95 uses; that > would let you use all of the splash screens that people have made > for Windows 95. I kind of like the idea of being able to use the > color cycle animations, as well... maybe next rev? That's DIB (aka .BMP). Unfortunately, historically this format has been compressed/uncompressed by the video driver (!), and we all know how reliable Windows video drivers are. So nobody seems to support compressing the rotten things. Colour cycling would be quite feasible, and relatively simple to add. > Also, you might want to consider delaying until ELF kernels; that > would let you put the image in an ELF section. Alternately, put > a file called "bootimage" (or whatever) in "/" where the boot help > resides, and read it out of the FS. Didn't I make that obvious? That's how it's done already; effectively the "extras" section is a hack to add more sections to the a.out format, but the image is read from the file "/splash" by the bootstrap. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 14:08:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA28036 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:08:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA28020 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:08:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from handy@sag.space.lockheed.com) Received: from localhost by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA02889; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:08:12 -0800 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:08:11 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Handy To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: HTTPD Question Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk So, when I get something like this in my logs, what do you think it means? ahab.rutgers.edu - - [06/Jan/1998:10:33:18 -0800] "GET /cgi-bin/phf?Jserver=x%0auname%20-a%0aid%0aecho%20lamer%0a&Qname=x HTTP/1.0" 404 164 And httpd-errors: [Tue Jan 6 10:33:18 1998] access to /usr/local/www/cgi-bin/phf failed for ahab.rutgers.edu, reason: script not found or unable to stat Running apache-1.2.4, and I don't have any CGI scripts available to run. Just wondering out loud if I've got a problem. Thanks, Brian From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 14:22:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA00184 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:22:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA29395 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:17:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (ppp-1.ts-6.nyc.idt.net [169.132.98.1]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA11105; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:18:25 GMT Message-Id: <199801061818.SAA11105@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: , "Capriotti" Subject: Re: X based Free installation Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:10:18 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk what would be the point? to have X installed you have to already have freebsd installed. the latest installer (2.2.5) is pretty cool anyway, although slightly buggy when it fails to initialize install medias. if anyone were to do something nice for installs it would be to show a simple tutorial on making a bootable blank freebsd disk, disklable firghtens me :) honestly i will admit a shamefull secret, to make a bootable disk i've had to install freebsd from scratch... not a pretty site, and i _do_ RTFM a lot :) -Alfred ---------- > From: Capriotti > To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: X based Free installation > Date: Tuesday, January 06, 1998 8:10 AM > > Hey, folks. > > Is there any plan to make a X based installation for FreeBSD ? > > I've been thinking: It could make things easyer for those ppl - like me - > who have in-depth WINDOS background. > > Of course further details like "Do you want this machine to be an NFS > Server ?" or "Do you want this machine to be an NFS Client ?" and other may > still bbe a problem, but this is another step. > > I was VERY frustrated when I first tryed to install Free (Back to 2.1 > version) and I just couldn't, because it wouldn't recognize my IDE CD-ROM > drive, and there was no clue why... then, when I was able to get the CD > working (long time and several attempts latter), I got very confused about > those new and hermetic concepts, info and language. And I was not exactly a > rookie. > > Today's instasllation (2.2.1) is a bit better, more user friendly, but I > guess it can get better. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 14:33:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA01554 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:33:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA01520 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:32:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.2/nospam) with UUCP id XAA06272 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:32:29 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.8/keltia-2.13/nospam) id XAA06451; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:30:06 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980106233005.35928@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:30:05 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: "FreeBSD Hackers' list" Subject: Soft updates available for OpenBSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3960 AMD-K6 MMX @ 208 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Has anyone looked at the soft updates package for OpenBSD ? It would be very nice to have it too :-) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #27: Tue Jan 6 22:25:44 CET 1998 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 14:56:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA03690 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:56:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA03241 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:50:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.2/nospam) with UUCP id XAA07587; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:50:05 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.8/keltia-2.13/nospam) id XAA19616; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:49:53 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980106234952.37736@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:49:52 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Brian Handy Subject: Re: HTTPD Question References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from Brian Handy on Tue, Jan 06, 1998 at 02:08:11PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3960 AMD-K6 MMX @ 208 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk According to Brian Handy: > So, when I get something like this in my logs, what do you think it means? > > ahab.rutgers.edu - - [06/Jan/1998:10:33:18 -0800] "GET > /cgi-bin/phf?Jserver=x%0auname%20-a%0aid%0aecho%20lamer%0a&Qname=x > HTTP/1.0" 404 164 Someone tries to probe your WWW server for the phf CGI script which, in old versions of Apache, would give you access the any file the server can access. There have been a CERT advisatory about this. You may want to report the attack to them if you have enough log. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #27: Tue Jan 6 22:25:44 CET 1998 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 15:00:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA04031 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:00:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA03935 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:59:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id WAA01817; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:14:16 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199801062114.WAA01817@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: SFT To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:14:15 +0100 (MET) Cc: capriotti@geocities.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801062116.OAA11031@usr08.primenet.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jan 6, 98 09:16:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Anecdote: During one of the early demos of SFT at Novell, the demo > was to drop an anvil on one machine and have the failover operate > transparently. One time, the anvil dropped, and, since they were > using thinwire at the time, the anvil crushed the ethernet card > and shorted the thinwire. After that, the demo used two cards. 8-). which by no means was a guarantee that the problem could not occur again. Wouldn't have been better to switch to twisted pair instead :) Cheers Luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 15:11:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA05433 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:11:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA05421 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:10:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (ppp-1.ts-6.nyc.idt.net [169.132.98.1]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA11438 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:11:51 GMT Message-Id: <199801061911.TAA11438@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: Subject: Freebsd search engine? Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:07:50 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk The search engine on the freebsd sites all return pointers to www.freebsd.org. for example, i'm on www2.freebsd.org and do a search of the mailing lists, or ports or whatever and all the results point to www.freebsd.org, is this on purpose, do the mirrors not mirror the handbook/FAQ? -Alfred From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 15:11:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA05470 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:11:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA05420 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:10:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (ppp-1.ts-6.nyc.idt.net [169.132.98.1]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA11434; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:11:47 GMT Message-Id: <199801061911.TAA11434@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: "Terry Lambert" , "Mike Smith" Cc: "Mike Smith" , Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:01:24 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk where can i get information on this splashkit thing? ---------- > From: Mike Smith > To: Terry Lambert > Cc: Mike Smith ; hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... > Date: Tuesday, January 06, 1998 4:58 PM > > > > Before bundling and releasing this (or just plastering it into -current > > > 8) I'm looking for: > > > > > > - Testers. Naturally, I need people to find my bugs. 8) > > > > > > - A better image format. The DIB (.BMP) format is relatively easy to > > > work with, but a 320x200x8 image runs the best part of 64k, which is > > > slow to load from floppy and wastes valuable core. > > > > .... > > > > > Comments? > > > > Actually, I'd suggest sticking with the format Windows 95 uses; that > > would let you use all of the splash screens that people have made > > for Windows 95. I kind of like the idea of being able to use the > > color cycle animations, as well... maybe next rev? > > That's DIB (aka .BMP). Unfortunately, historically this format has > been compressed/uncompressed by the video driver (!), and we all know > how reliable Windows video drivers are. So nobody seems to support > compressing the rotten things. > > Colour cycling would be quite feasible, and relatively simple to add. > > > Also, you might want to consider delaying until ELF kernels; that > > would let you put the image in an ELF section. Alternately, put > > a file called "bootimage" (or whatever) in "/" where the boot help > > resides, and read it out of the FS. > > Didn't I make that obvious? That's how it's done already; effectively > the "extras" section is a hack to add more sections to the a.out > format, but the image is read from the file "/splash" by the bootstrap. > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 15:44:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA08405 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:44:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from damon.com (root@damon.com [207.170.114.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA08379 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:44:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dap@damon.com) Received: (from dap@localhost) by damon.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) id RAA09428 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:44:12 -0600 (CST) From: Damon Anton Permezel Message-Id: <199801062344.RAA09428@damon.com> Subject: Motif question To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:44:12 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk The jdk115 port uses lesstif-0.81. I am attempting to resolve some issues pertaining to running some AOL messenger s/w which comes as a Java application. (BTW: running this with anything but mwm causes the X-server to rapidly bloat until all 500meg of swap space is consumed!) Currently, I'm looking at a SEGV due to a difference in interpretation of what a "private" data structure should look like. >From the java:awt_util.c source, it thinks the struct, which hangs off a vendor specific field in the widget struct ve = (XmVendorShellExtObject) extData->widget; if ((im_info = (XmImInfo *) ve->vendor.im_info) == NULL) return NULL; else return im_info->iclist; lesstif places a: /* * This is a private data structure. A pointer to it is in the * VendorShell Extension object. */ typedef struct XmICStuff { XIC xic; XIM xim; Widget ve, text; /* Don't know if we need this */ struct XmICStuff *next; } XmICStuff; in the vendor.im_info. Java:awt_util.c thinks that it looks like: typedef struct { Widget im_widget; XIMStyle input_style; XIC xic; int status_width; int status_height; int preedit_width; int preedit_height; XmICStruct *iclist; XmICStruct *current; } XmImInfo; It picks up the `iclist', (random garbage) and faults. Obviously, the java:awt port for FreeBSD based on lesstif-0.81 should be modified, but I would appreciate if anyone could provide me any pointers so I could have the faintest idea as to what the hell is going on here. I really don't want to have to live-and-breathe Motif, but I would like a glimmer of understanding as to the issues here. Specifically, the function in java:awt is `awt_util_getIMStatusHeight', which has a bunch of side effects: XtSetArg(args[0], XtNbaseHeight, &base_height); XtGetValues(vw, args, 1); if (base_height < 0) base_height = 0; XtSetArg(args[0], XtNbaseHeight, base_height); XtSetValues(vw, args, 1); and returns `height'. Blech! Motif is already seeping into my brain. Help! From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 16:08:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA10418 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:08:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA09992 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:02:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (ppp-1.ts-6.nyc.idt.net [169.132.98.1]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA11798; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:03:07 GMT Message-Id: <199801062003.UAA11798@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: "Terry Lambert" , "Mike Smith" Cc: "Mike Smith" , Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:24:09 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk where can i get docs on this splash screen setup/install? -Alfred ---------- > From: Mike Smith > To: Terry Lambert > Cc: Mike Smith ; hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... > Date: Tuesday, January 06, 1998 4:58 PM > > > > Before bundling and releasing this (or just plastering it into -current > > > 8) I'm looking for: > > > > > > - Testers. Naturally, I need people to find my bugs. 8) > > > > > > - A better image format. The DIB (.BMP) format is relatively easy to > > > work with, but a 320x200x8 image runs the best part of 64k, which is > > > slow to load from floppy and wastes valuable core. > > > > .... > > > > > Comments? > > > > Actually, I'd suggest sticking with the format Windows 95 uses; that > > would let you use all of the splash screens that people have made > > for Windows 95. I kind of like the idea of being able to use the > > color cycle animations, as well... maybe next rev? > > That's DIB (aka .BMP). Unfortunately, historically this format has > been compressed/uncompressed by the video driver (!), and we all know > how reliable Windows video drivers are. So nobody seems to support > compressing the rotten things. > > Colour cycling would be quite feasible, and relatively simple to add. > > > Also, you might want to consider delaying until ELF kernels; that > > would let you put the image in an ELF section. Alternately, put > > a file called "bootimage" (or whatever) in "/" where the boot help > > resides, and read it out of the FS. > > Didn't I make that obvious? That's how it's done already; effectively > the "extras" section is a hack to add more sections to the a.out > format, but the image is read from the file "/splash" by the bootstrap. > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 16:48:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA13549 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:48:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA13407 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:47:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA23000; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:47:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA28404; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:46:54 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:46:54 -0700 Message-Id: <199801070046.RAA28404@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Damon Anton Permezel Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Motif question In-Reply-To: <199801062344.RAA09428@damon.com> References: <199801062344.RAA09428@damon.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > The jdk115 port uses lesstif-0.81. *yuck* > I am attempting to resolve some issues pertaining to running some AOL > messenger s/w which comes as a Java application. > > (BTW: running this with anything but mwm causes the X-server to rapidly bloat > until all 500meg of swap space is consumed!) The AOL software, or the JDK in general? We've have really good luck with your last binary release, although lots of AWT stuff is broken, and Swing components don't work at all. Is there any chance of the diffs being released anytime soon, so that those of us with Motif can create their own binary releases w/out these annoying bugs? (Replacing the LessTif shlib with the Motif version causes SEGV's, which is what I believe the rest of the article is about.) > Obviously, the java:awt port for FreeBSD based on lesstif-0.81 should be > modified, but I would appreciate if anyone could provide me any pointers > so I could have the faintest idea as to what the hell is going on here. I'm not sure what you're asking about. Can you be a bit more specific? Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 16:53:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA14007 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:53:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA13966; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:53:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pb@fasterix.frmug.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.2/nospam) with UUCP id BAA16489; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:53:30 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from pb@fasterix.frmug.org) Received: (from pb@localhost) by fasterix.frmug.org (8.8.8/8.8.5/pb-19970302) id BAA24984; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:50:53 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19980107015053.TL50316@@> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:50:53 +0100 From: pb@fasterix.freenix.org (Pierre Beyssac) To: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: playing with the Linux JDK 1.1.3 under -current X-Mailer: Mutt 0.59.1e Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk [ this is mainly an emulator problem, but as it seems to involve more general questions about differing socket semantics under Linux vs FreeBSD, I Cc: this to -hackers ] I've been playing with the Linux JDK (v 1.1.3) under FreeBSD-current. Works fairly well, except for two problems I encountered. Note that the issue here is not so much having a running JDK (since there are others, native projects for this under FreeBSD) as using the Linux JDK as a compliance test for the Linux emulator :-) - fetching remote URLs in the Appletviewer (as in appletviewer http://xxxx/some_cool_applet_page.html) doesn't work ("already connected" error). Especially when the connection takes a long time to establish (remote site). In fact this occurs in the runtime code used for any Java connect(). - I have problems with a program using Netscape IFC classes V1.1.2 (freezes when exposing its window), while IFC 1.1.1 works perfectly fine. I'm told by a Linux user that these both work ok with the JDK under Linux, so these are probably not JDK bugs. I know where the first problem comes from and have been able to patch the Linux emulator code for a quick and dirty hack around the problem, by ignoring the ISCONN error when returned by connect(). The JDK runtime is apparently not expecting this error when redoing a connect() on a non-blocking socket, after the first connect() failed with a EINPROGRESS. Note that the original JDK code itself is hacked to work around Solaris socket bugs, which excuses this rather disgusting way of handling things... In the other case, the Java runtime is waiting (wchan=pause, according to ps) and doesn't fetch a variable amount of data it apparently got on its socket from the X server (it apparently fills with X events as you move the mouse and click). It all looks like subtle differences in the handling of non-blocking sockets between Linux and FreeBSD. Does anyone know about any such differences? I'm looking into this when I can spare a little time, but I thought maybe it would be a good idea to ask there first :-) -- Pierre Beyssac pb@fasterix.frmug.org pb@fasterix.freenix.org {Free,Net,Open}BSD, Linux : il y a moins bien, mais c'est plus cher Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 17:15:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA15642 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:15:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp2.teleport.com (ns0.teleport.com [192.108.254.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA15621 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:15:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mrl@teleport.com) Received: from user2.teleport.com (usertest.teleport.com [192.108.254.19]) by smtp2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA03249; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:15:31 -0800 (PST) From: Mostyn Lewis Received: (from mrl@localhost) by user2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA21799; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:15:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199801070115.RAA21799@user2.teleport.com> Subject: Re: Motif question To: dap@damon.com (Damon Anton Permezel) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:15:29 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801062344.RAA09428@damon.com> from "Damon Anton Permezel" at Jan 6, 98 05:44:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk If you look a little up in the awt_util.c JDK_1.1.5 source, you'll see the comment about the code being copied from CDE/Motif (1.2.3 | 2.0 | 2.1 who knows). Sun uses 1.2.3 so it's probably that. Anyway, it's internal Motif code and the Motif developers can chop and change it as they see fit from release to release - and probably have. So, I guess you have to obey the struct below if you want to use this in java apps :-( Mostyn > Java:awt_util.c thinks that it looks like: > > typedef struct { > Widget im_widget; > XIMStyle input_style; > XIC xic; > int status_width; > int status_height; > int preedit_width; > int preedit_height; > XmICStruct *iclist; > XmICStruct *current; > } XmImInfo; From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 17:33:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA18120 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:33:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from damon.com (damon.com [207.170.114.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA17062 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:28:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dap@damon.com) Received: (from dap@localhost) by damon.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) id TAA09855; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:10:48 -0600 (CST) From: Damon Anton Permezel Message-Id: <199801070110.TAA09855@damon.com> Subject: Re: Motif question To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:10:48 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801070046.RAA28404@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Jan 6, 98 05:46:54 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk "Nate Williams sez: " > > The jdk115 port uses lesstif-0.81. > > *yuck* Why? What are the (free) alternatives? Although I would rather get back to actually trying to write some Java code, rather than debugging AWT/Lesstif interactions, I might be tempted to argue that we should be working towards either making lesstif better, or AWT Motif-independent. > > > I am attempting to resolve some issues pertaining to running some AOL > > messenger s/w which comes as a Java application. > > > > (BTW: running this with anything but mwm causes the X-server to rapidly bloat > > until all 500meg of swap space is consumed!) > > The AOL software, or the JDK in general? We've have really good luck > with your last binary release, although lots of AWT stuff is broken, and > Swing components don't work at all. I care not for the AOL s/w, except for the fact that it causes immediate X-server death unless one uses mwm or afterstep, and that it also causes SEGV or ABRT traps, and I'd like to remove as many bugs as possible from the next beta of the JDK port. > > Is there any chance of the diffs being released anytime soon, so that > those of us with Motif can create their own binary releases w/out these > annoying bugs? (Replacing the LessTif shlib with the Motif version > causes SEGV's, which is what I believe the rest of the article is > about.) Sure. The next beta (where I finally lay to rest the busy-wait-poll problem for the I/O) is ready, except I wanted to solve the SEGV problems, and some other issues I've seen when running some of the demo apps. Being somewhat paranoid, I like to test stuff, from several Os-levels, etc. My current plan is to fix all outstanding bugs (or accept defeat in 1 more day), publish the next binary, try to figure out how to generate diffs, and publish them. The main issue is time, I guess, and the "cleanup source and figure out how to generate diffs" task just keeps getting lower priority. I just got summoned to go grocery shopping, but "wrestling with the motif issues" is actually becoming more unpleasant than the gen diffs task, and since I am getting more and more requests, I suspect that something will pop out before this time tomorrow. OK, thats a commitment. Cheers, Damon. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 17:37:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA18913 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:37:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from proxy-bsb.gns.com.br (fNDwE/1fpGWRAz+/h49jLznr092ni95S@srv1-bsb.GNS.com.br [200.239.56.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA18844 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:37:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@gns.com.br) Received: (qmail 14027 invoked from network); 7 Jan 1998 01:35:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO srv1-bsb.gns.com.br) (unknown) by unknown with SMTP; 7 Jan 1998 01:35:22 -0000 Received: (from mail@localhost) by srv1-bsb.gns.com.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA14023; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:35:22 -0200 (EDT) Received: from dl0235-bsb.gns.com.br(200.239.56.235) by srv1-bsb.gns.com.br via smap (V2.0) id xma014021; Tue, 6 Jan 98 23:35:14 -0200 Received: (from dcs@localhost) by daniel.sobral (8.8.8/8.8.6) id XAA00419; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:28:37 -0200 (EDT) From: "Daniel C. Sobral" Message-Id: <199801070128.XAA00419@daniel.sobral> Subject: Device Driver squeleton shell script To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:28:37 -0200 (EDT) Disclaimer: Klaatu Barada Nikto! X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I have just added lkm capability to my driver, using joy driver as an example. It was almost cut and paste. I think it would be a nice addition to /usr/share/examples/drivers/make_*_driver.sh. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@gns.com.br I owe, I owe, It's off to work I go... From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 17:42:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA19918 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:42:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from seidata.com (seidata.com [206.160.242.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA19858 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:41:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@seidata.com) Received: from localhost (mike@localhost) by seidata.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA01566; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:41:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:41:13 -0500 (EST) From: Mike To: Brian Handy cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HTTPD Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Brian Handy wrote: > So, when I get something like this in my logs, what do you think it > means? It seems to mean someone is attempting to exploit phf on your system. One popular phf "exploit" involves catting the password file to one's browser. This is nothing to worry about if you don't have phf on your system (the error messages you posted said you didn't). Of course, the same guy that attempted to exploit phf on your system may be trying other things as well... I would suggest either uncommenting the lines in your access.conf file that forward these requests to http://phf.apache.org or looking into a script that logs these instances, trys to query for information about the attacker and mails the results to root (just search for 'phf' on the web - there are a couple different scripts like this out there). --- Mike Hoskins Kettering University SEI Data Network Services, Inc. CS/CE Major Program mike@seidata.com hosk0094@kettering.edu http://www.seidata.com http://www.kettering.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 18:00:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA22469 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:00:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp2.teleport.com (ns0.teleport.com [192.108.254.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA22433 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:00:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mrl@teleport.com) Received: from user2.teleport.com (usertest.teleport.com [192.108.254.19]) by smtp2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA03743; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:17:17 -0800 (PST) From: Mostyn Lewis Received: (from mrl@localhost) by user2.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id RAA21971; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:17:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199801070117.RAA21971@user2.teleport.com> Subject: Re: Motif question To: dap@damon.com (Damon Anton Permezel) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:17:15 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801062344.RAA09428@damon.com> from "Damon Anton Permezel" at Jan 6, 98 05:44:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk If you look a little up in the awt_util.c JDK_1.1.5 source, you'll see the comment about the code being copied from CDE/Motif (1.2.3 | 2.0 | 2.1 who knows). Sun uses 1.2.3 so it's probably that. Anyway, it's internal Motif code and the Motif developers can chop and change it as they see fit from release to release - and probably have. So, I guess you have to obey the struct below if you want to use this in java apps :-( Mostyn > Java:awt_util.c thinks that it looks like: > > typedef struct { > Widget im_widget; > XIMStyle input_style; > XIC xic; > int status_width; > int status_height; > int preedit_width; > int preedit_height; > XmICStruct *iclist; > XmICStruct *current; > } XmImInfo; From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 18:08:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA23274 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:08:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA23263 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:08:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.8/CET-v2.2) with SMTP id CAA21974 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:08:05 GMT Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:08:05 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: GPS for xntpd Stratum 1 servers Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I've been looking up GPS products that will work with FreeBSD and here's what I've found so far. 1) John Hay has contributed code for NMEA drivers in xntpd. This is a standard protocol emitted by devices used for the boat navigation industry, "and you thought this was the Information Super Highway". >From the xntpd docs it looks like he is using a Garmin 25XL GPS device. http://www.garmin.com only shows Garmin 45XL. I wonder how much these things cost? Anyway, this apparently works now on FreeBSD. 2) Poul is playing around with the Motorolla UT Oncore Evaluation Kit. >From what I gather, the "Evaluation Kit" is what you would actually end up using. The unit is housed in an aluminum casing and they provide the RS-232 cable and some control software that runs on a PC. This looks like a cheap way to get a pretty high quality device. A lot of devices out there require a Gadget box to interface to a PC, the Evaluation kit takes care of that for you. 3) There are products specifically made for the PC market like the Bancomm bc635/637PCI card with GPS. At http://www.bancomm.com they list Win95 and WinNT drivers but no UNIX. I don't know if they'll provide enough info to write a driver. Is there anyone else using GPS on FreeBSD with xntpd as a Stratum 1 server solution? Regards, Mike Hancock -- michaelh@cet.co.jp http://www.cet.co.jp CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F 2-5-12, Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku, Tokyo 105 Japan Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 18:15:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA23832 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:15:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA23448 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:10:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA23561; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:10:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA28753; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:10:37 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:10:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199801070210.TAA28753@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Damon Anton Permezel Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Motif question In-Reply-To: <199801070110.TAA09855@damon.com> References: <199801070046.RAA28404@mt.sri.com> <199801070110.TAA09855@damon.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > The jdk115 port uses lesstif-0.81. > > > > *yuck* > > Why? What are the (free) alternatives? None that I'm aware. > Although I would rather get back > to actually trying to write some Java code, rather than debugging AWT/Lesstif > interactions, I might be tempted to argue that we should be working towards > either making lesstif better, or AWT Motif-independent. I simply don't have time to mess around with making LessTif better, and AWT is probably not going to be Motif-independant anytime in the near future given that Sun's controls it. I'd rather make a distribution that we can legally distributte that contains the Motif library in a 'acceptably' re-distributable form if possible. > > Is there any chance of the diffs being released anytime soon, so that > > those of us with Motif can create their own binary releases w/out these > > annoying bugs? (Replacing the LessTif shlib with the Motif version > > causes SEGV's, which is what I believe the rest of the article is > > about.) > > Sure. The next beta (where I finally lay to rest the busy-wait-poll problem > for the I/O) is ready, except I wanted to solve the SEGV problems, and some > other issues I've seen when running some of the demo apps. > Being somewhat paranoid, I like to test stuff, from several Os-levels, etc. > My current plan is to fix all outstanding bugs (or accept defeat in 1 > more day), publish the next binary, try to figure out how to generate > diffs, and publish them. Great. The sooner the better. > The main issue is time, I guess, and the "cleanup source and figure out how > to generate diffs" task just keeps getting lower priority. The advantage of giving out diffs is that it allows others to leverage off of your work, and possibly take over the distribution problems. I have to build a dist. for my co-workers already, so I'd like to spend at least a bit of time trying to build a Motif-ish release. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 19:17:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA28909 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:17:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA28428 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:10:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02137; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:06:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199801070306.TAA02137@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Nate Williams cc: Damon Anton Permezel , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Motif question In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Jan 1998 17:46:54 MST." <199801070046.RAA28404@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 19:06:31 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > The AOL software, or the JDK in general? We've have really good luck > with your last binary release, although lots of AWT stuff is broken, and > Swing components don't work at all. Swing components seems to work over here well at least the ones that I have tested it. I am running FreeBSD 3.0-current with the recent port of jdk1.1.5 > Is there any chance of the diffs being released anytime soon, so that > those of us with Motif can create their own binary releases w/out these > annoying bugs? (Replacing the LessTif shlib with the Motif version Well, I am slugging over here with jdk1.1.5 so at the very least real soon we will have diffs against jdk1.1.5 --- now I am just truly hacking the jdk1.1.5 however I sincerely believe that once the diffs are released from whomever we will be in better shape to tackle jdk1.1.5. Regards, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 19:19:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA29051 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:19:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA28440 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:10:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA05524; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:07:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd005522; Tue Jan 6 19:07:31 1998 Message-ID: <34B2F0BE.41C67EA6@whistle.com> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 19:04:30 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Daniel C. Sobral" CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Device Driver squeleton shell script References: <199801070128.XAA00419@daniel.sobral> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > > I have just added lkm capability to my driver, using joy driver as > an example. It was almost cut and paste. I think it would be a nice > addition to /usr/share/examples/drivers/make_*_driver.sh. > > -- > Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) > dcs@gns.com.br > > I owe, I owe, > It's off to work I go... send me diffs and I'll commit it! From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 19:42:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA02198 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:42:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from al.imforei.apana.org.au (al.imforei.apana.org.au [202.12.89.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA02124 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:42:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pjchilds@al.imforei.apana.org.au) Received: (from pjchilds@localhost) by al.imforei.apana.org.au (beBop) id WAA16806; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:04:38 +1030 (CST) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:04:38 +1030 (CST) From: Peter Childs Message-Id: <199801061134.WAA16806@al.imforei.apana.org.au> To: jin@george.lbl.gov, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: suggestion on using boot.config In-Reply-To: <199712160444.UAA16864@george.lbl.gov> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-971224 (UNIX) (FreeBSD/2.2-STABLE (i386)) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In article <199712160444.UAA16864@george.lbl.gov> you wrote: > I do not know if this is a good place to address this issue. > For remote development, I would like to modified "boot.c" to rename > "/boot.config" to either "/boot.config.run" or "/boot.config.last" > after readfile("boot.config", boot_config, BOOT_CONFIG_SIZE); Hmm... doesn't "nextboot" do what you want? (I've only read the man page on it so don't shoot me if it doesn't) Peter -- Peter Childs - finger pjchilds@al.imforei.apana.org.au for PGP public key We are FreeBSD, resistance is related to current and voltage... From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 19:51:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA02835 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:51:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iworks.InterWorks.org (deischen@iworks.interworks.org [128.255.18.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA02446 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:46:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org) Received: (from deischen@localhost) by iworks.InterWorks.org (8.7.5/) id VAA23795; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:49:59 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199801070349.VAA23795@iworks.InterWorks.org> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:49:59 -0600 (CST) From: "Daniel M. Eischen" To: dap@damon.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, nate@mt.sri.com Subject: Re: Motif question Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > The jdk115 port uses lesstif-0.81. [...] > Is there any chance of the diffs being released anytime soon, so that > those of us with Motif can create their own binary releases w/out these > annoying bugs? (Replacing the LessTif shlib with the Motif version > causes SEGV's, which is what I believe the rest of the article is > about.) Yes, please :-) We have several Motif licenses, as I'm sure many others do too. Is it possible to build the binary version against Motif and omit the troublesome library(ies) containing the Motif library routines? And then a simple way to rebuild the libraries with our own Motif without having to rebuild jdk? Or is this wishful thinking ;-) Dan Eischen deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 19:51:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA02865 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:51:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA02848 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:51:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA24186; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:51:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id UAA29048; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:51:19 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:51:19 -0700 Message-Id: <199801070351.UAA29048@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Amancio Hasty Cc: Nate Williams , Damon Anton Permezel , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Motif question In-Reply-To: <199801070306.TAA02137@rah.star-gate.com> References: <199801070046.RAA28404@mt.sri.com> <199801070306.TAA02137@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > with your last binary release, although lots of AWT stuff is broken, and > > Swing components don't work at all. > > > Swing components seems to work over here well at least the ones > that I have tested it. I am running FreeBSD 3.0-current with > the recent port of jdk1.1.5 I'm using both, and they don't work reliably *at all*. I can get them to work sometime, but not all the time. This is with Swing-0.6.1, not the newest release which has many bugs fixed but many new bugs with resizing stuff, so we're avoiding that release. > > Is there any chance of the diffs being released anytime soon, so that > > those of us with Motif can create their own binary releases w/out these > > annoying bugs? (Replacing the LessTif shlib with the Motif version > > Well, I am slugging over here with jdk1.1.5 so at the very least real > soon we will have diffs against jdk1.1.5 --- now I am just truly > hacking the jdk1.1.5 however I sincerely believe that once > the diffs are released from whomever we will be in better shape > to tackle jdk1.1.5. I don't follow? Are you creating your own JDK1.1.5 port on your own? Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 19:52:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA02941 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:52:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA02919 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:52:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA24191; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:51:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id UAA29080; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:51:49 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:51:49 -0700 Message-Id: <199801070351.UAA29080@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Daniel M. Eischen" Cc: dap@damon.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, nate@mt.sri.com Subject: Re: Motif question In-Reply-To: <199801070349.VAA23795@iworks.InterWorks.org> References: <199801070349.VAA23795@iworks.InterWorks.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Is it possible to build the binary version against Motif and > omit the troublesome library(ies) containing the Motif library > routines? And then a simple way to rebuild the libraries with > our own Motif without having to rebuild jdk? Nope, unfortunately. :( Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 19:57:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA03688 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:57:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA03684 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:57:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA24240; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:57:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id UAA29123; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:57:35 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:57:35 -0700 Message-Id: <199801070357.UAA29123@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Michael Hancock Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: GPS for xntpd Stratum 1 servers In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > >From the xntpd docs it looks like he is using a Garmin 25XL GPS device. > http://www.garmin.com only shows Garmin 45XL. I wonder how much these > things cost? Anyway, this apparently works now on FreeBSD. I have a Garmin 12XL, and it's about $250. If the cheaper unit is accurate enough, then it should work since they all output the standard NMEA CCGGA codes which contains the time-stamp. (I haven't looked at the source code to see if that's the message format the code uses.) If that's too much, you can get a Garmin 12 for around $180 (Cabela's Spring catalog) which has less 'features', but that's not important for doign time-clocks, unless you *need* an external antenna which the 12 doesn't support and the 12XL does. The antenna for the 12XL runs about $90 according to Cabelas, and the power supply is $19.. > 2) Poul is playing around with the Motorolla UT Oncore Evaluation Kit. > From what I gather, the "Evaluation Kit" is what you would actually end up > using. The unit is housed in an aluminum casing and they provide the > RS-232 cable and some control software that runs on a PC. This looks like > a cheap way to get a pretty high quality device. A lot of devices out > there require a Gadget box to interface to a PC, the Evaluation kit takes > care of that for you. The Garmin certainly doesn't require any device, just a funky cable to plug into the back of the unit that terminates in a standard db9 serial cable. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 20:09:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA04544 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:09:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA04525 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:09:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA03047; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:08:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199801070408.UAA03047@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Nate Williams cc: Damon Anton Permezel , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Motif question In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Jan 1998 20:51:19 MST." <199801070351.UAA29048@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 20:08:41 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > with your last binary release, although lots of AWT stuff is broken, and > > > Swing components don't work at all. > > > > > > Swing components seems to work over here well at least the ones > > that I have tested it. I am running FreeBSD 3.0-current with > > the recent port of jdk1.1.5 > > I'm using both, and they don't work reliably *at all*. I can get them > to work sometime, but not all the time. This is with Swing-0.6.1, not > the newest release which has many bugs fixed but many new bugs with > resizing stuff, so we're avoiding that release. I am using Swing-0.7 and have not tested it a lot just play with it and I think that I did encounter a resize problem however I didn't know what to attribute it. > > > Is there any chance of the diffs being released anytime soon, so that > > > those of us with Motif can create their own binary releases w/out these > > > annoying bugs? (Replacing the LessTif shlib with the Motif version > > > > Well, I am slugging over here with jdk1.1.5 so at the very least real > > soon we will have diffs against jdk1.1.5 --- now I am just truly > > hacking the jdk1.1.5 however I sincerely believe that once > > the diffs are released from whomever we will be in better shape > > to tackle jdk1.1.5. > > I don't follow? Are you creating your own JDK1.1.5 port on your own? > Oh, I just want to play with the jdk here in my humble habitat and I don't plan on making a distribution also whenever I can fix bugs in the jdk. Here is a partial dump: {hasty} ./visaj Visaj - The Java(TM) Designer (1.0.1) Navajo (c) 1997 Pacific Imperial Inc. SIGSEGV 11* segmentation violation Full thread dump: "Image Fetcher 3" (TID:0x205eb1b8, sys_thread_t:0x215dbf00, state:CW) prio=8 sun.awt.image.ImageFetcher.nextImage(ImageFetcher.java:109) sun.awt.image.ImageFetcher.fetchloop(ImageFetcher.java:146) sun.awt.image.ImageFetcher.run(ImageFetcher.java:127) "Image Fetcher 2" (TID:0x205eb020, sys_thread_t:0x215baf00, state:R) prio=3 java.awt.MediaTracker.setDone(MediaTracker.java:790) java.awt.MediaEntry.setStatus(MediaTracker.java:863) java.awt.ImageMediaEntry.imageUpdate(MediaTracker.java:927) sun.awt.image.ImageWatched.newInfo(ImageWatched.java:70) sun.awt.image.ImageRepresentation.imageComplete(ImageRepresentation.jav a:273) sun.awt.image.ImageDecoder.imageComplete(ImageDecoder.java:150) sun.awt.image.GifImageDecoder.produceImage(GifImageDecoder.java: Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 20:28:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA05832 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:28:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from asa.ca (taob@tor-adm1.nbc.netcom.ca [207.181.89.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA05820 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:28:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from taob@asa.ca) Received: (from taob@localhost) by asa.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA19690; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:27:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:27:54 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao X-Sender: taob@tor-adm1 To: Ollivier Robert cc: "FreeBSD Hackers' list" Subject: Re: Soft updates available for OpenBSD In-Reply-To: <19980106233005.35928@keltia.freenix.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Ollivier Robert wrote: > > Has anyone looked at the soft updates package for OpenBSD ? > > > > It would be very nice to have it too :-) How does the speed compare to async mounts? -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@netcom.ca) "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 21:25:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA11827 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:25:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA11811 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:25:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.8/CET-v2.2) with SMTP id FAA23242; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 05:24:28 GMT Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:24:28 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Nate Williams cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: GPS for xntpd Stratum 1 servers In-Reply-To: <199801070357.UAA29123@mt.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Nate Williams wrote: > If that's too much, you can get a Garmin 12 for around $180 (Cabela's > Spring catalog) which has less 'features', but that's not important for > doign time-clocks, unless you *need* an external antenna which the 12 > doesn't support and the 12XL does. The antenna for the 12XL runs about > $90 according to Cabelas, and the power supply is $19.. In what situations would you need an external antenna? Would I need one if the Garmin was put into a room on the 15th floor of a 30 floor building in the middle of the floor farthest away from all windows? BTW, the radio geeks at http://www.tapr.org/tapr have a low-cost kit that looks pretty easy to assemble for use in your home network. Mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 21:27:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA12051 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:27:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA12008 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:27:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA24964; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:27:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA29694; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:27:16 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:27:16 -0700 Message-Id: <199801070527.WAA29694@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Michael Hancock Cc: Nate Williams , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: GPS for xntpd Stratum 1 servers In-Reply-To: References: <199801070357.UAA29123@mt.sri.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > If that's too much, you can get a Garmin 12 for around $180 (Cabela's > > Spring catalog) which has less 'features', but that's not important for > > doign time-clocks, unless you *need* an external antenna which the 12 > > doesn't support and the 12XL does. The antenna for the 12XL runs about > > $90 according to Cabelas, and the power supply is $19.. > > In what situations would you need an external antenna? Would I need one > if the Garmin was put into a room on the 15th floor of a 30 floor building > in the middle of the floor farthest away from all windows? You probably need one if you were in the room with the windows. It might not even work in that room unless you can get the antenna outside. The frequencies used the the GPS don't go well through brush, concrete, and or metal. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 21:30:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA12434 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:30:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA12423 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:30:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.8/CET-v2.2) with SMTP id FAA23272; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 05:29:44 GMT Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:29:44 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Brian Tao cc: Ollivier Robert , "FreeBSD Hackers' list" Subject: Re: Soft updates available for OpenBSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk What kind of license did Kirk put on that? I wonder if it has anything to do with BSDI. Mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 21:52:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA14017 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:52:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA14010 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:52:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (ppp-36.ts-1.nyc.idt.net [169.132.96.36]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA13718 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:53:39 GMT Message-Id: <199801070153.BAA13718@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: Subject: NYC highschool server... Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:49:45 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk A principal at a NY city high school is about to give me the go ahead to replace thier Novell system with a FreeBSD system. I have several questions about legality and actual setup... First off, is this legal? (I'm doing the setup for free and i'm sure it is, but i don't want to jepordize anyone's job here...) I have a stable system as of a month or so ago, is there anyway to just mirror my workstation without removing the harddrives as part of the install? btw, this could be a cool installation feature, as having to install _then_ cvsup _then_ make world is not cool :) is there anyway to do this via the fixit floppie? are there any major fixes i should be aware of since 11/20? is there any info on the splash screen util that i saw brought up recently? Thanks, -Alfred From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 22:09:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA14870 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:09:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA14863 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:09:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA00285; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:08:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199801070608.WAA00285@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: "Daniel M. Eischen" cc: dap@damon.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, nate@mt.sri.com Subject: Re: Motif question In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Jan 1998 21:49:59 CST." <199801070349.VAA23795@iworks.InterWorks.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 22:08:39 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > > The jdk115 port uses lesstif-0.81. > [...] > > Is there any chance of the diffs being released anytime soon, so that > > those of us with Motif can create their own binary releases w/out these > > annoying bugs? (Replacing the LessTif shlib with the Motif version > > causes SEGV's, which is what I believe the rest of the article is > > about.) > > Yes, please :-) We have several Motif licenses, as I'm sure many > others do too. > > Is it possible to build the binary version against Motif and > omit the troublesome library(ies) containing the Motif library > routines? And then a simple way to rebuild the libraries with > our own Motif without having to rebuild jdk? > > Or is this wishful thinking ;-) Thats a good question and I don't think anynone around here can readily answer . I would explore a different widget set for jdk. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 22:19:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA15698 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:19:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA15673 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:19:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00605; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:42:32 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801070612.QAA00605@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Capriotti cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Which free Unix for an embedded system? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Jan 1998 14:55:24 -0200." <3.0.1.32.19980106145524.006920cc@pop.mpc.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 16:42:32 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Remember that topic ?? It was discussed on Usenet, but I think it is worth > sending you this question: I don't read Usenet. > How reliable is FreeBSD to handle mission-critical tasks ? How long is a piece of string? Lots of people use it in mission-critical applications. > Supposing that you have a perfect application running under Free, would any > of you guys install, for instance, FreeBSD on the Souhorney's computers ? I presume you mean the Sojourner? FreeBSD doesn't run on 8-bit micros. > Or maybe, would you rely on Free a medical application to aid surgeries ? I doubt an insurer would consider that reasonable. > I know it may sound strange, but maybe Free can also be an *exelent* > option for robots and other alike. It depends a great deal on what you want to do. We use and sell FreeBSD into embedded applications, and it has been on the whole an excellent choice. I would be more inclined to say that it was cost-effective than 100% reliable. The 100% reliable solutions are generally impractially expensive for most applications. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 22:38:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA16944 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:38:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA16938; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:38:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA00809; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:00:38 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801070630.RAA00809@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: pb@fasterix.freenix.org (Pierre Beyssac) cc: emulation@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: playing with the Linux JDK 1.1.3 under -current In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Jan 1998 01:50:53 BST." <19980107015053.TL50316@@> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 17:00:37 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > It all looks like subtle differences in the handling of non-blocking > sockets between Linux and FreeBSD. Does anyone know about any such > differences? I'm looking into this when I can spare a little time, > but I thought maybe it would be a good idea to ask there first :-) I think the correct answer is "please tell us when you have fixes". 8) Seriously, I don't know of anyone else working in this area at the moment. If/when you have anything that works, *please* let me know and I'll get it committed. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 22:42:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA17320 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:42:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from core.acroal.com (firewall0.acroal.com [209.24.61.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17305 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:42:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@core.acroal.com) Received: from localhost (freebsd@localhost) by core.acroal.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA00368; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:42:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@core.acroal.com) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:42:14 -0800 (PST) From: FreeBSD Hacker To: Dan Busarow cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Informix on FreeBSD (maybe) (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk a) I was under the impression that mysql was kind of cheese-ball. At least PostGreSQL has some commercial support. www.openlinksw.com b) The very expensive ODBC drivers I have for PostGre have a problem with deleting from tables, everything else seems to work fine, but the access control is kind of nonexistent (i.e. I use firewall rules). On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Dan Busarow wrote: > On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, FreeBSD Hacker wrote: > > Ok guys, first I'll say I've spent the last week trying to get PostGreSQL > > to work with windows, unsuccessfully. Second, I think that the bottom > > Try mysql and myodbc. Works like a charm. > > Dan > -- > Dan Busarow 714 443 4172 > DPC Systems / Beach.Net dan@dpcsys.com > Dana Point, California 83 09 EF 59 E0 11 89 B4 8D 09 DB FD E1 DD 0C 82 > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 22:46:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA17567 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:46:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17553 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:45:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA00910; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:08:59 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801070638.RAA00910@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Michael Hancock cc: Nate Williams , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: GPS for xntpd Stratum 1 servers In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Jan 1998 14:24:28 +0900." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 17:08:58 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > In what situations would you need an external antenna? Would I need one > if the Garmin was put into a room on the 15th floor of a 30 floor building > in the middle of the floor farthest away from all windows? As a general rule, you want your antenna to have an unobstructed view of most of the sky. Anything more substantial than paper counts as "obstructed". In your case, I would be putting the entire GPS unit on the roof, and using an RS232-fibre-RS232 arrangement to bring the NMEA data back down to your system. If fibre isn't available, you can do it with a single telco pair as long as you put suitable isolation and lightning suppression on it; even a nearby strike will induce a godawful spike in a 15-storey cable. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 22:52:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA17988 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:52:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17975 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:52:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA00401; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:52:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199801070652.WAA00401@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Nate Williams cc: Michael Hancock , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: GPS for xntpd Stratum 1 servers In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Jan 1998 20:57:35 MST." <199801070357.UAA29123@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 22:52:33 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I don't think that you can use the Garmin units as an accurate time source since they don't output accurate timing info -- they do have accurate internal timing. The Motorola Oncore boards seems to be most accurate ones out there. Related to the Motorola Evaluation kit there is also the totally accurate clock project . If anyone is interested please check out: ftp://aleph.gsfc.nasa.gov/GPS/totally.accurate.clock It has all sorts of info and charts. Amancio > > >From the xntpd docs it looks like he is using a Garmin 25XL GPS device. > > http://www.garmin.com only shows Garmin 45XL. I wonder how much these > > things cost? Anyway, this apparently works now on FreeBSD. > > I have a Garmin 12XL, and it's about $250. If the cheaper unit is > accurate enough, then it should work since they all output the standard > NMEA CCGGA codes which contains the time-stamp. (I haven't looked at > the source code to see if that's the message format the code uses.) > > If that's too much, you can get a Garmin 12 for around $180 (Cabela's > Spring catalog) which has less 'features', but that's not important for > doign time-clocks, unless you *need* an external antenna which the 12 > doesn't support and the 12XL does. The antenna for the 12XL runs about > $90 according to Cabelas, and the power supply is $19.. > > > 2) Poul is playing around with the Motorolla UT Oncore Evaluation Kit. > > From what I gather, the "Evaluation Kit" is what you would actually end up > > using. The unit is housed in an aluminum casing and they provide the > > RS-232 cable and some control software that runs on a PC. This looks like > > a cheap way to get a pretty high quality device. A lot of devices out > > there require a Gadget box to interface to a PC, the Evaluation kit takes > > care of that for you. > > The Garmin certainly doesn't require any device, just a funky cable to > plug into the back of the unit that terminates in a standard db9 serial > cable. > > > > Nate > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 22:57:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA18422 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:57:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bb.cc.wa.us (root@aries.bb.cc.wa.us [134.39.181.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA18416 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:57:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@bb.cc.wa.us) Received: from localhost (chris@localhost) by bb.cc.wa.us (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA10026; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:06:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:06:24 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Coleman To: Alfred Perlstein cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NYC highschool server... In-Reply-To: <199801070153.BAA13718@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > A principal at a NY city high school is about to give me the go ahead to > replace thier Novell system with a FreeBSD system. Way Cool. We use Novell and FreeBSD together, and I have had More problems with Novell than I ever had with FreeBSD. > > I have several questions about legality and actual setup... > > First off, is this legal? (I'm doing the setup for free and i'm sure it > is, but i don't want to jepordize anyone's job here...) I hope so, I use it here at a Community College... > > I have a stable system as of a month or so ago, is there anyway to just > mirror my workstation without removing the harddrives as part of the > install? Since you are mirroring a running system, you could user 'rdist' from the ports collection. it is a tool to mirror another FreeBSD machine. We use it to mirror hard drives on the same machine. The scripts to make it run are fairly simple. If you install the boot code to the disk with the install utility, the disk should boot up as an exact duplicate of the machine you are mirroring. > btw, this could be a cool installation feature, as having to install _then_ > cvsup _then_ make world is not cool :) > is there anyway to do this via the fixit floppie? > Maybe a fixit floppy with rdist on it, that you could insert in a target machine, boot, fdisk, disklabel, mount, newfs and then use rdist to copy over the machine you want to mirror. It could be handy. BTW I'd like to know how to make a blank FBSD boot disk. One I could put such things on. > are there any major fixes i should be aware of since 11/20? > > is there any info on the splash screen util that i saw brought up recently? > Is this splash screen stuff going to become part of the next -RELEASE? (it would be real cool mike.) > Thanks, > -Alfred > Christopher J. Coleman (chris@bb.cc.wa.us) Computer Support Analyst I (509)-762-6341 FreeBSD Book Project: http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 23:40:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA21923 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:40:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA21910 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:40:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA10010; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:37:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd010008; Tue Jan 6 23:37:04 1998 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:34:03 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Michael Hancock cc: Brian Tao , Ollivier Robert , "FreeBSD Hackers' list" Subject: Re: Soft updates available for OpenBSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk It's a non-commercial licence. I know.. I asked him.. As in.. if you give away source you can use it. (plus a few extra restrictions) It's an optional module. I'm looking at it at the moment. julian On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Michael Hancock wrote: > What kind of license did Kirk put on that? I wonder if it has anything to > do with BSDI. > > Mike > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 23:43:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA22294 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:43:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA22279 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:43:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.2/nospam) with UUCP id IAA15351 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:43:07 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.8/keltia-2.13/nospam) id IAA25732; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:29:58 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980107082958.05193@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:29:58 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: "FreeBSD Hackers' list" Subject: Re: Soft updates available for OpenBSD References: <19980106233005.35928@keltia.freenix.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from Brian Tao on Tue, Jan 06, 1998 at 11:27:54PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3960 AMD-K6 MMX @ 208 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk According to Brian Tao: > How does the speed compare to async mounts? The paper doesn't speak of async mounts but it is supposed to give you async speed without the risks. Reading the paper definitely show a nice improvement... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #27: Tue Jan 6 22:25:44 CET 1998 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 23:43:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA22322 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:43:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA22293 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:43:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.2/nospam) with UUCP id IAA15458 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:43:16 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.8/keltia-2.13/nospam) id IAA25742; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:31:36 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980107083136.35694@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:31:36 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: "FreeBSD Hackers' list" Subject: Re: Soft updates available for OpenBSD References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from Michael Hancock on Wed, Jan 07, 1998 at 02:29:44PM +0900 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3960 AMD-K6 MMX @ 208 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk According to Michael Hancock: > What kind of license did Kirk put on that? I wonder if it has anything to > do with BSDI. Nothing. Here is the copyright. /* * Copyright 1997 Marshall Kirk McKusick. All Rights Reserved. * * The soft updates code is derived from the appendix of a University * of Michigan technical report (Gregory R. Ganger and Yale N. Patt, * "Soft Updates: A Solution to the Metadata Update Problem in File * Systems", CSE-TR-254-95, August 1995). * * The following are the copyrights and redistribution conditions that * apply to this copy of the soft update software. For a license * to use, redistribute or sell the soft update software under * conditions other than those described here, please contact the * author at one of the following addresses: * * Marshall Kirk McKusick mckusick@mckusick.com * 1614 Oxford Street +1-510-843-9542 * Berkeley, CA 94709-1608 * USA * * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions * are met: * * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. * 3. None of the names of McKusick, Ganger, Patt, or the University of * Michigan may be used to endorse or promote products derived from * this software without specific prior written permission. * 4. Redistributions in any form must be accompanied by information on * how to obtain complete source code for any accompanying software * that uses the this software. This source code must either be included * in the distribution or be available for no more than the cost of * distribution plus a nominal fee, and must be freely redistributable * under reasonable conditions. For an executable file, complete * source code means the source code for all modules it contains. * It does not mean source code for modules or files that typically * accompany the operating system on which the executable file runs, * e.g., standard library modules or system header files. * * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY MARSHALL KIRK MCKUSICK ``AS IS'' AND ANY * EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED * WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE * DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL MARSHALL KIRK MCKUSICK BE LIABLE FOR * ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF * SUCH DAMAGE. * * @(#)ffs_softdep.c 9.12 (McKusick) 12/2/97 */ -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #27: Tue Jan 6 22:25:44 CET 1998 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 6 23:46:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA22827 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:46:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA22808 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:46:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01105; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:04:33 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801070734.SAA01105@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Amancio Hasty cc: Nate Williams , Michael Hancock , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: GPS for xntpd Stratum 1 servers In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Jan 1998 22:52:33 -0800." <199801070652.WAA00401@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 18:04:32 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > I don't think that you can use the Garmin units as an accurate time > source since they don't output accurate timing info -- they do have > accurate internal timing. ie. no pps output, yes. > The Motorola Oncore boards seems to be most accurate ones out there. > Related to the Motorola Evaluation kit there is also > the totally accurate clock project . The Rockwell Jupiter boards are also cheap and *very* compact. These also have pps & NMEA output. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 00:08:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA24731 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:08:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.30.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA24727 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:08:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA04292 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:08:12 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from kuku) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:08:12 +0100 (MET) From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199801070808.JAA04292@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: knecht.mc - freebsd.cf Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Yesterday our central network admin people had the glorious idea to barr port 25 to the outside world and force everyone to use anti mailrelaying filters. As the consequence I didn't receive any mail from the outside world in 24 hours. I will hope that it will not have been too disastrous for my membership in the various lists. While I had Joerg on the phone he gave me the tip to use a portion of knecht.mc to add to freebsd.mc. I suggest to add this to the standard freebsd.mc file. This would make freebsd fake relay safe out of the box for future releases. (btw, they have enabled port 25 for my machine again) -- Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 00:57:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA03122 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:57:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA03089 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:56:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01382 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:20:26 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801070850.TAA01382@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Splashscreen stuff Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed ; boundary="==_Exmh_15534752400" Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 19:20:24 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk This is a multipart MIME message. --==_Exmh_15534752400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have been veritably deluged with requests for this (at least by one respondent 8), so here are the gruesome details: - The 2.2 splashkit (now 11 months old) is available at ftp://ftp.gsoft.com.au/misc/2.2_splashkit.tar.gz It may also be on 2.2.x CDROMs in the 'experimental' area. YMMV with this code; I haven't tried it in a long time, and it is moderately ugly. - The 3.0 splashkit patches are attached. These are against a kernel of around 971209, but should apply to today's current fairly cleanly. If you have a moment to look these over, please do, as there are a few things of a moderately sensitive nature in here that could do with commentary (bootblock changes, locore changes, a new kernel internal interface, etc.) You will have to: - Build and install new bootblocks. Make sure that BOOT_SPLASH is defined. - Copy your 320x200x256 .BMP file to /splash - Build a new kernel with SC_SPLASH_SCREEN defined. The splash will be displayed by default when booting. It will not be displayed if the -v boot flag is supplied (although still loaded). Pressing PrtSc (next console) will discard the splash. There is a keymap entry which will toggle the splash back on, although it is not currently assigned to any key. The splash should also automagically disappear if you force a vty change, eg. by starting X. Note that while the kernel is loading, keypresses are *only* checked during text output; there is no way to detect a keypress while a device probe is in progress. --==_Exmh_15534752400 Content-Type: text/plain ; name="splashdiff"; charset=us-ascii Content-Description: splashdiff Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="splashdiff" ? boot/biosboot/.depend ? boot/biosboot/boot ? boot/biosboot/boot.strip ? boot/biosboot/boot.nohdr ? boot/biosboot/boot1 ? boot/biosboot/boot2 ? boot/biosboot/sizetest ? conf/WORD Index: boot/biosboot/Makefile =================================================================== RCS file: /local3/ncvs/src/sys/i386/boot/biosboot/Makefile,v retrieving revision 1.60 diff -u -r1.60 Makefile --- Makefile 1997/08/31 06:11:25 1.60 +++ Makefile 1998/01/07 08:44:26 @@ -12,8 +12,9 @@ -mno-486 \ -DBOOTWAIT=${BOOTWAIT} -DTIMEOUT=${TIMEOUT} CFLAGS+= -DBOOTSEG=${BOOTSEG} -DBOOTSTACK=${BOOTSTACK} -CFLAGS+= -DDO_BAD144 +#CFLAGS+= -DDO_BAD144 CFLAGS+= -DVESA_SUPPORT +CFLAGS+= -DBOOT_SPLASH CFLAGS+= -I${.CURDIR}/../../.. CFLAGS+= ${CWARNFLAGS} @@ -27,8 +28,8 @@ # Enable code to take the default boot string from a fixed location on the # disk. See nextboot(8) and README.386BSD for more info. -#CFLAGS+= -DNAMEBLOCK -#CFLAGS+= -DNAMEBLOCK_WRITEBACK +CFLAGS+= -DNAMEBLOCK +CFLAGS+= -DNAMEBLOCK_WRITEBACK # Bias the conversion from the BIOS drive number to the FreeBSD unit number # for hard disks. This may be useful for people booting in a mixed IDE/SCSI Index: boot/biosboot/boot.c =================================================================== RCS file: /local3/ncvs/src/sys/i386/boot/biosboot/boot.c,v retrieving revision 1.69 diff -u -r1.69 boot.c --- boot.c 1997/08/31 06:11:26 1.69 +++ boot.c 1998/01/07 08:44:27 @@ -55,7 +55,8 @@ #include "boot.h" #include #include -#include +/*#include */ +#include "../../include/bootinfo.h" /* XXX */ #define ouraddr (BOOTSEG << 4) /* XXX */ @@ -66,6 +67,11 @@ static char boot_config[BOOT_CONFIG_SIZE]; static char boot_help[BOOT_HELP_SIZE]; +#ifdef BOOT_SPLASH +#define BOOT_SPLASH_HEADER_SIZE 512 +static char boot_splash_header[BOOT_SPLASH_HEADER_SIZE]; +#endif +extern void *end; #ifdef NAMEBLOCK char *dflt_name; #endif @@ -80,6 +86,7 @@ static void getbootdev(char *ptr, int *howto); static void loadprog(void); static void readfile(char *path, char *buf, size_t nbytes); +static long int putextra(long int base, long int code, long int length); /* NORETURN */ void @@ -126,6 +133,9 @@ } readfile("boot.config", boot_config, BOOT_CONFIG_SIZE); readfile("boot.help", boot_help, BOOT_HELP_SIZE); +#ifdef BOOT_SPLASH + readfile("splash", boot_splash_header, BOOT_SPLASH_HEADER_SIZE); +#endif #ifdef NAMEBLOCK /* * XXX @@ -200,7 +210,12 @@ int i; unsigned pad; char *s, *t; - + long int extras_base; + struct bootinfo_extra be; +#ifdef BOOT_SPLASH + char *splash_base = 0; + long int splash_size; +#endif #ifdef VESA_SUPPORT if (bootinfo.bi_vesa) @@ -272,6 +287,25 @@ /* kzip & kernel will zero their own bss */ addr += head.a_bss; + bootinfo.bi_extras = addr; + +#ifdef BOOT_SPLASH + /********************************************************/ + /* If the splash is valid, reserve space for it. */ + /* For now, we are working with DIB (.BMP) images only. */ + /********************************************************/ + splash_size = *(long int *)(boot_splash_header + 2); + if ((*(short *)boot_splash_header == 0x4d42) && (splash_size < 65536)) { + splash_base = (char *)(addr + sizeof(struct bootinfo_extra)); + addr = putextra(addr, BI_EXTRA_SPLASH, splash_size); + } +#endif + + /* Terminate the extras area */ + addr = putextra(addr, BI_EXTRA_END, 0); + bootinfo.bi_extralen = addr - bootinfo.bi_extras; + printf("extra=0x%x ", bootinfo.bi_extralen); + /* Pad to a page boundary. */ pad = (unsigned)addr & PAGE_MASK; if (pad != 0) { @@ -305,7 +339,7 @@ /********************************************************/ /* Load the string table */ /********************************************************/ - printf("+0x%x+0x%x]\n", sizeof(int), i); + printf("+0x%x+0x%x]\n", sizeof(int), i); xread((void *)addr, i); addr += i; @@ -344,6 +378,16 @@ pcpy(kernel_config, (char *)&disklabel + ouraddr, KERNEL_CONFIG_SIZE); printf("total=0x%x entry point=0x%x\n", (int)addr, (int)startaddr); + +#ifdef BOOT_SPLASH + /* Now we can suck in the splash image */ + name = "splash"; + if (splash_base && !openrd()) { + printf("Reading %d bytes of splash image...", splash_size); + xread(splash_base, splash_size); + } +#endif + startprog((int)startaddr, loadflags | RB_BOOTINFO, bootdev, (int)&bootinfo + ouraddr); } @@ -364,6 +408,17 @@ read(buf, nbytes); } buf[nbytes - 1] = '\0'; +} + +static long int +putextra(long int base, long int code, long int length) +{ + struct bootinfo_extra be; + + be.extra_code = code; + be.extra_length = length; + pcpy(&be, (void *)base, sizeof(struct bootinfo_extra)); + return(base + length + sizeof(struct bootinfo_extra)); } static void Index: conf/options.i386 =================================================================== RCS file: /local3/ncvs/src/sys/i386/conf/options.i386,v retrieving revision 1.66 diff -u -r1.66 options.i386 --- options.i386 1997/12/28 13:36:00 1.66 +++ options.i386 1998/01/07 08:44:27 @@ -71,6 +71,7 @@ I686_CPU opt_global.h SC_SPLASH_SCREEN opt_syscons.h +SC_SPLASH_PATH opt_syscons.h MAXCONS opt_syscons.h SLOW_VGA opt_syscons.h STD8X16FONT opt_syscons.h Index: i386/genassym.c =================================================================== RCS file: /local3/ncvs/src/sys/i386/i386/genassym.c,v retrieving revision 1.50 diff -u -r1.50 genassym.c --- genassym.c 1997/10/10 12:38:27 1.50 +++ genassym.c 1998/01/07 08:44:27 @@ -188,6 +188,8 @@ printf("#define\tBI_SIZE %p\n", &bootinfo->bi_size); printf("#define\tBI_SYMTAB %p\n", &bootinfo->bi_symtab); printf("#define\tBI_ESYMTAB %p\n", &bootinfo->bi_esymtab); + printf("#define\tBI_EXTRAS %p\n", &bootinfo->bi_extras); + printf("#define\tBI_EXTRALEN %p\n", &bootinfo->bi_extralen); return (0); } Index: i386/locore.s =================================================================== RCS file: /local3/ncvs/src/sys/i386/i386/locore.s,v retrieving revision 1.102 diff -u -r1.102 locore.s --- locore.s 1997/11/07 19:58:32 1.102 +++ locore.s 1998/01/07 08:44:27 @@ -795,6 +795,12 @@ /* Find end of kernel image (rounded up to a page boundary). */ movl $R(_end),%esi +/* Account for after-kernel extras, if present. */ + movl R(_bootinfo+BI_EXTRALEN),%edi + addl %edi,%esi + movl $KERNBASE,%edi + addl %edi,R(_bootinfo+BI_EXTRAS) + /* include symbols in "kernel image" if they are loaded and useful */ #ifdef DDB movl R(_bootinfo+BI_ESYMTAB),%edi Index: i386/machdep.c =================================================================== RCS file: /local3/ncvs/src/sys/i386/i386/machdep.c,v retrieving revision 1.280 diff -u -r1.280 machdep.c --- machdep.c 1997/12/27 02:28:27 1.280 +++ machdep.c 1998/01/07 08:44:28 @@ -1805,3 +1805,28 @@ } #endif /* DDB */ + +/* + * Hunt through the extras region loaded by the bootstrap code for + * the nominated region type. + */ +void * +biextra_lookup(int code) +{ + struct bootinfo_extra *be; + char *exp; + + /* Are there any extras? */ + if ((bootinfo.bi_extras > 0) && (bootinfo.bi_extralen > 0)) { + + be = (struct bootinfo_extra *)bootinfo.bi_extras; + while (be->extra_code != BI_EXTRA_END) { + exp = (char *)be; + if (be->extra_code == code) { + return(exp + sizeof(struct bootinfo_extra)); + } + be = (struct bootinfo_extra*)(exp + be->extra_length + sizeof(struct bootinfo_extra)); + } + } + return(NULL); +} Index: include/bootinfo.h =================================================================== RCS file: /local3/ncvs/src/sys/i386/include/bootinfo.h,v retrieving revision 1.8 diff -u -r1.8 bootinfo.h --- bootinfo.h 1997/07/31 08:07:36 1.8 +++ bootinfo.h 1998/01/07 08:44:28 @@ -61,10 +61,22 @@ unsigned long bi_extmem; unsigned long bi_symtab; unsigned long bi_esymtab; + unsigned long bi_extras; + unsigned long bi_extralen; +}; + +struct bootinfo_extra +{ + long int extra_code; +#define BI_EXTRA_END 0 +#define BI_EXTRA_SPLASH 1 +#define BI_EXTRA_CONFIG 2 + long int extra_length; }; #ifdef KERNEL extern struct bootinfo bootinfo; +extern void *biextra_lookup(int code); #endif #endif /* !_MACHINE_BOOTINFO_H_ */ Index: isa/syscons.c =================================================================== RCS file: /local3/ncvs/src/sys/i386/isa/syscons.c,v retrieving revision 1.242 diff -u -r1.242 syscons.c --- syscons.c 1997/12/07 08:09:19 1.242 +++ syscons.c 1998/01/07 08:44:28 @@ -46,6 +46,7 @@ #include #endif +#include #include #include #include @@ -270,6 +271,8 @@ static timeout_t blink_screen; #ifdef SC_SPLASH_SCREEN static void toggle_splash_screen(scr_stat *scp); +static int splash_show(scr_stat *scp); +static int splash_hide(scr_stat *scp); #endif struct isa_driver scdriver = { @@ -744,6 +747,10 @@ apm_hook_establish(APM_HOOK_RESUME , &scp->r_hook); #endif +#ifdef SC_SPLASH_SCREEN + scp->splash_up = 0; +#endif + cdevsw_add(&cdev, &scdevsw, NULL); #ifdef DEVFS @@ -2034,6 +2041,11 @@ scr_stat *scp = console[0]; term_stat save = scp->term; +#ifdef SC_SPLASH_SCREEN + /* Check for input in case the user is trying to toggle the splash */ + (void)sccncheckc(dev); +#endif + scp->term = kernel_console; current_default = &kernel_default; if (scp == cur_console && !(scp->status & UNKNOWN_MODE)) @@ -2280,6 +2292,11 @@ if (switch_in_progress && (cur_console->proc != pfind(cur_console->pid))) switch_in_progress = FALSE; +#ifdef SC_SPLASH_SCREEN + /* Take the splash down so we can switch away */ + splash_hide(scp); +#endif + if (next_scr >= MAXCONS || switch_in_progress || (cur_console->smode.mode == VT_AUTO && cur_console->status & UNKNOWN_MODE)) { @@ -3140,10 +3157,10 @@ #ifdef SC_SPLASH_SCREEN /* - * Now put up a graphics image, and maybe cycle a - * couble of palette entries for simple animation. + * If not booting verbosely, put up the splash. */ - toggle_splash_screen(cur_console); + if (!bootverbose) + splash_show(cur_console); #endif } @@ -3219,6 +3236,9 @@ */ clear_screen(scp); scp->cursor_saveunder = *scp->cursor_pos; +#ifdef SC_SPLASH_SCREEN + scp->splash_up = 0; +#endif return scp; } @@ -3625,9 +3645,6 @@ switch (action) { /* LOCKING KEYS */ case NLK: -#ifdef SC_SPLASH_SCREEN - toggle_splash_screen(cur_console); /* SOS XXX */ -#endif if (!nlkcnt) { nlkcnt++; if (cur_console->status & NLKED) @@ -3709,6 +3726,10 @@ case DBG: #ifdef DDB /* try to switch to console 0 */ +#ifdef SC_SPLASH_SCREEN + (void)splash_hide(cur_console); + (void)splash_hide(console[0]); +#endif if (cur_console->smode.mode == VT_AUTO && console[0]->smode.mode == VT_AUTO) switch_scr(cur_console, 0); @@ -3742,6 +3763,11 @@ metas = 1; break; case NEXT: +#ifdef SC_SPLASH_SCREEN + /* "next" cycles us off the splash */ + if (splash_hide(cur_console)) + break; +#endif { int next, this = get_scr_num(); for (next = this+1; next != this; next = (next+1)%MAXCONS) { @@ -4754,33 +4780,447 @@ } #ifdef SC_SPLASH_SCREEN + +static int bmp_Init(const char *data, int swidth, int sheight, int sdepth, u_char *vidmem); +static int bmp_Draw(void); +static int splash_up = 0; +static u_char splash_save_mode; + +#ifdef SC_SPLASH_PATH +# include SC_SPLASH_PATH +#endif + +static int +splash_show(scr_stat *scp) +{ + static int initted = 0, failed = 0; + int s = splhigh(); + u_char *splash_bitmap; + void *eptr; + struct bootinfo_extra *be; + + /* something has gone wrong before, don't try again */ + if (failed) + return(0); + +#ifdef SC_SPLASH_PATH + splash_bitmap = bmp; +#else + if ((splash_bitmap = biextra_lookup(BI_EXTRA_SPLASH)) == NULL) + return(0); +#endif + + if (!initted) { /* look at the image first time 'round */ + initted = 1; + if (bmp_Init(splash_bitmap, 320, 200, 8, (u_char *)pa_to_va(VIDEOMEM))) { + failed = 1; /* init failed */ + return(0); + } + } + + save_palette(); /* try to draw the image */ + scp->splash_save_mode = scp->mode; + scp->mode = M_VGA_CG320; /* XXX should detect image format */ + scp->status |= UNKNOWN_MODE; + scp->splash_up = 1; + set_mode(scp); + failed = bmp_Draw(); + splx(s); + + if (failed) { /* restore original screen */ + splash_hide(scp); + printf("Splash screen load failed!\n"); + return(0); + } + return(1); +} + +static int +splash_hide(scr_stat *scp) +{ + int s; + + if (scp->splash_up) { /* only do anything if splash is up */ + s = splhigh(); + load_palette(palette); + scp->mode = scp->splash_save_mode; + scp->status &= ~UNKNOWN_MODE; + scp->splash_up = 0; + set_mode(scp); + splx(s); + return(1); + } else { + return(0); + } +} + + static void toggle_splash_screen(scr_stat *scp) { - static int toggle = 0; - static u_char save_mode; - int s; + if (splash_up) { + (void)splash_hide(scp); + } else { + (void)splash_show(scp); + } +} + + +/* +** Code to handle Microsoft DIB (".BMP") format images. +** +** Blame me (msmith@freebsd.org) if this is broken, not Soren. +*/ + +typedef struct tagBITMAPFILEHEADER { /* bmfh */ + u_short bfType __attribute__ ((packed)); + int bfSize __attribute__ ((packed)); + u_short bfReserved1 __attribute__ ((packed)); + u_short bfReserved2 __attribute__ ((packed)); + int bfOffBits __attribute__ ((packed)); +} BITMAPFILEHEADER; + +typedef struct tagBITMAPINFOHEADER { /* bmih */ + int biSize __attribute__ ((packed)); + int biWidth __attribute__ ((packed)); + int biHeight __attribute__ ((packed)); + short biPlanes __attribute__ ((packed)); + short biBitCount __attribute__ ((packed)); + int biCompression __attribute__ ((packed)); + int biSizeImage __attribute__ ((packed)); + int biXPelsPerMeter __attribute__ ((packed)); + int biYPelsPerMeter __attribute__ ((packed)); + int biClrUsed __attribute__ ((packed)); + int biClrImportant __attribute__ ((packed)); +} BITMAPINFOHEADER; + +typedef struct tagRGBQUAD { /* rgbq */ + u_char rgbBlue __attribute__ ((packed)); + u_char rgbGreen __attribute__ ((packed)); + u_char rgbRed __attribute__ ((packed)); + u_char rgbReserved __attribute__ ((packed)); +} RGBQUAD; + +typedef struct tagBITMAPINFO { /* bmi */ + BITMAPINFOHEADER bmiHeader __attribute__ ((packed)); + RGBQUAD bmiColors[256] __attribute__ ((packed)); +} BITMAPINFO; + +typedef struct tagBITMAPF +{ + BITMAPFILEHEADER bmfh __attribute__ ((packed)); + BITMAPINFO bmfi __attribute__ ((packed)); +} BITMAPF; + +#define BI_RGB 0 +#define BI_RLE8 1 +#define BI_RLE4 2 + +/* +** all we actually care about the image +*/ +typedef struct +{ + int width,height; /* image dimensions */ + int swidth,sheight; /* screen dimensions for the current mode */ + u_char sdepth; /* screen depth (1, 4, 8 bpp) */ + int ncols; /* number of colours */ + u_char palette[256][3]; /* raw palette data */ + u_char format; /* one of the BI_* constants above */ + u_char *data; /* pointer to the raw data */ + u_char *index; /* running pointer to the data while drawing */ + u_char *vidmem; /* video memory allocated for drawing */ +} BMP_INFO; + +static BMP_INFO bmp_info; - if (video_mode_ptr == NULL) +/* +** bmp_SetPix +** +** Given (info), set the pixel at (x),(y) to (val) +** +*/ +static void +bmp_SetPix(BMP_INFO *info, int x, int y, u_char val) +{ + int sofs, bofs; + u_char tpv, mask; + int ppb = (8 / info->sdepth); /* pixels per byte */ + + /* + * range check to avoid explosions + */ + if ((x < 0) || (x >= info->swidth) || (y < 0) || (y >= info->sheight)) return; + + /* + * calculate offset into video memory; + * because 0,0 is bottom-left for DIB, we have to convert. + */ + sofs = ((info->height - (y+1)) * info->swidth) + x; - s = splhigh(); - if (toggle) { - scp->mode = save_mode; - scp->status &= ~UNKNOWN_MODE; - set_mode(scp); - load_palette(palette); - toggle = 0; + switch(info->sdepth) { + case 1: + sofs = sofs >> 3; /* correct for depth */ + bofs = x & 0x7; /* offset within byte */ + + val &= 1; /* mask pixel value */ + mask = ~(0x80 >> bofs); /* calculate bit mask */ + tpv = *(info->vidmem+sofs) & mask; /* get screen contents, excluding masked bit */ + *(info->vidmem+sofs) = tpv | (val << (8-bofs)); /* write new bit */ + break; + + /* XXX only correct for non-interleaved modes */ + case 4: + sofs = sofs >> 1; /* correct for depth */ + bofs = x & 0x1; /* offset within byte */ + + val &= 0xf; /* mask pixel value */ + mask = bofs ? 0x0f : 0xf0; /* calculate bit mask */ + tpv = *(info->vidmem+sofs) & mask; /* get screen contents, excluding masked bits */ + *(info->vidmem+sofs) = tpv | (val << (bofs ? 0 : 4)); /* write new bits */ + break; + + case 8: + *(info->vidmem+sofs) = val; + break; } - else { - save_mode = scp->mode; - scp->mode = M_VGA_CG320; - scp->status |= UNKNOWN_MODE; - set_mode(scp); - /* load image */ - toggle = 1; +} + +/* +** bmp_DecodeRLE4 +** +** Given (data) pointing to a line of RLE4-format data and (line) being the starting +** line onscreen, decode the line. +*/ +static void +bmp_DecodeRLE4(BMP_INFO *info, int line) +{ + int count; /* run count */ + u_char val; + int x,y; /* screen position */ + + x = 0; /* starting position */ + y = line; + + /* loop reading data */ + for (;;) { + /* + * encoded mode starts with a run length, and then a byte with + * two colour indexes to alternate between for the run + */ + if (*info->index) { + for (count = 0; count < *info->index; count++, x++) { + if (count & 1) { /* odd count, low nybble */ + bmp_SetPix(info, x, y, *(info->index+1) & 0x0f); + } else { /* even count, high nybble */ + bmp_SetPix(info, x, y, (*(info->index+1) >>4) & 0x0f); + } + } + info->index += 2; + /* + * A leading zero is an escape; it may signal the end of the + * bitmap, a cursor move, or some absolute data. + */ + } else { /* zero tag may be absolute mode or an escape */ + switch (*(info->index+1)) { + case 0: /* end of line */ + info->index += 2; + return; + case 1: /* end of bitmap */ + info->index = NULL; + return; + case 2: /* move */ + x += *(info->index + 2); /* new coords */ + y += *(info->index + 3); + info->index += 4; + break; + default: /* literal bitmap data */ + for (count = 0; count < *(info->index + 1); count++, x++) { + val = *(info->index + 2 + (count / 2)); /* byte with nybbles */ + if (count & 1) { + val &= 0xf; /* get low nybble */ + } else { + val = (val >> 4); /* get high nybble */ + } + bmp_SetPix(info, x, y, val); + } + /* warning, this depends on integer truncation, do not hand-optimise! */ + info->index += 2 + ((count + 3) / 4) * 2; + break; + } + } } - splx(s); } -#endif + +/* +** bmp_DecodeRLE8 +** Given (data) pointing to a line of RLE4-format data and (line) being the starting +** line onscreen, decode the line. +*/ +static void +bmp_DecodeRLE8(BMP_INFO *info, int line) +{ + int count; /* run count */ + int x,y; /* screen position */ + + x = 0; /* starting position */ + y = line; + + /* loop reading data */ + for(;;) { + /* + * encoded mode starts with a run length, and then a byte with + * two colour indexes to alternate between for the run + */ + if (*info->index) { + for (count = 0; count < *info->index; count++, x++) + bmp_SetPix(info, x, y, *(info->index+1)); + info->index += 2; + /* + * A leading zero is an escape; it may signal the end of the + * bitmap, a cursor move, or some absolute data. + */ + } else { /* zero tag may be absolute mode or an escape */ + switch(*(info->index+1)) { + case 0: /* end of line */ + info->index += 2; + return; + case 1: /* end of bitmap */ + info->index = NULL; + return; + case 2: /* move */ + x += *(info->index + 2); /* new coords */ + y += *(info->index + 3); + info->index += 4; + break; + default: /* literal bitmap data */ + for (count = 0; count < *(info->index + 1); count++, x++) + bmp_SetPix(info, x, y, *(info->index + 2 + count)); + /* must be an even count */ + info->index += 2 + count + (count & 1); + break; + } + } + } +} + +/* +** bmp_DecodeLine +** +** Given (info) pointing to an image being decoded, (line) being the line currently +** being displayed, decode a line of data. +*/ +static void +bmp_DecodeLine(BMP_INFO *info, int line) +{ + int x; + + switch(info->format) { + case BI_RGB: + for (x = 0; x < info->width; x++, info->index++) + bmp_SetPix(info, x, line, *info->index); + break; + case BI_RLE4: + bmp_DecodeRLE4(info, line); + break; + case BI_RLE8: + bmp_DecodeRLE8(info, line); + break; + } +} + +/* +** bmp_Init +** +** Given a pointer (data) to the image of a BMP file, fill in bmp_info with what +** can be learnt from it. Return nonzero if the file isn't usable. +** +** Take screen dimensions (swidth), (sheight) and (sdepth) and make sure we +** can work with these. Remember that the video memory is at (vidmem) +*/ +static int +bmp_Init(const char *data, int swidth, int sheight, int sdepth, u_char *vidmem) +{ + BITMAPF *bmf = (BITMAPF *)data; + int pind; + + bmp_info.data = NULL; /* assume setup failed */ + bmp_info.vidmem = vidmem; /* remember where */ + + /* check file ID */ + if (bmf->bmfh.bfType != 0x4d42) { + return(1); /* XXX check word ordering for big-endian ports? */ + } + + /* save what we know about the screen */ + bmp_info.swidth = swidth; + bmp_info.sheight = sheight; + bmp_info.sdepth = sdepth; + + /* where's the data? */ + bmp_info.data = (u_char *)data + bmf->bmfh.bfOffBits; + + /* image parameters */ + bmp_info.width = bmf->bmfi.bmiHeader.biWidth; + bmp_info.height = bmf->bmfi.bmiHeader.biHeight; + bmp_info.format = bmf->bmfi.bmiHeader.biCompression; + + switch(bmp_info.format) { /* check compression format */ + case BI_RGB: + case BI_RLE4: + case BI_RLE8: + break; + default: + return(1); /* unsupported compression format */ + } + + /* palette details */ + bmp_info.ncols = (bmf->bmfi.bmiHeader.biClrUsed); + bzero(bmp_info.palette,sizeof(bmp_info.palette)); + if (bmp_info.ncols == 0) { /* uses all of them */ + bmp_info.ncols = 2 << bmf->bmfi.bmiHeader.biBitCount; + } + if ((bmp_info.height > bmp_info.sheight) || + (bmp_info.width > bmp_info.swidth) || + (bmp_info.ncols > (1 << sdepth))) { + return(1); /* beyond screen capacity */ + } + + /* read palette */ + for (pind = 0; pind < bmp_info.ncols; pind++) { + bmp_info.palette[pind][0] = (bmf->bmfi.bmiColors[pind].rgbRed >>2); + bmp_info.palette[pind][1] = (bmf->bmfi.bmiColors[pind].rgbGreen >>2); + bmp_info.palette[pind][2] = (bmf->bmfi.bmiColors[pind].rgbBlue >>2); + } + return(0); +} + +/* +** bmp_Draw +** +** Render the image. Return nonzero if that's not possible. +** +*/ +static int +bmp_Draw(void) +{ + int line, i; + + if (bmp_info.data == NULL) { /* init failed, do nothing */ + return(1); + } + + /* initialise the info structure for drawing */ + bmp_info.index = bmp_info.data; + + /* set the palette for our image */ + load_palette((u_char *)&bmp_info.palette); + + for (line = 0; (line < bmp_info.height) && bmp_info.index; line++) { + bmp_DecodeLine(&bmp_info, line); + } + return(0); +} +#endif /* SC_SPLASH_SCREEN */ #endif /* NSC */ Index: isa/syscons.h =================================================================== RCS file: /local3/ncvs/src/sys/i386/isa/syscons.h,v retrieving revision 1.36 diff -u -r1.36 syscons.h --- syscons.h 1997/11/21 11:37:07 1.36 +++ syscons.h 1998/01/07 08:44:29 @@ -184,6 +184,10 @@ u_short *history_save; /* save area index */ int history_size; /* size of history buffer */ struct apmhook r_hook; /* reconfiguration support */ +#ifdef SC_SPLASH_SCREEN + int splash_up; /* splash screen on this console */ + u_char splash_save_mode; /* saved mode for splash screen */ +#endif } scr_stat; typedef struct default_attr { --==_Exmh_15534752400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ --==_Exmh_15534752400-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 01:25:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA05194 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:25:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from omega.noc.easynet.net (omega.noc.easynet.net [193.131.248.227]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA05189 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:25:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chrisy@omega.noc.easynet.net) Received: (qmail 27304 invoked by uid 1001); 7 Jan 1998 09:25:35 -0000 Message-ID: <19980107092535.52934@flix.net> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:25:35 +0000 From: Chrisy Luke To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multipath Routing. References: <19980106104520.25045@flix.net> <34B28925.2781E494@whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <34B28925.2781E494@whistle.com>; from Julian Elischer on Tue, Jan 06, 1998 at 11:42:29AM -0800 Organization: The Flirble Internet Exchange X-URL: http://www.flix.net/ X-MOD1: X X-MOD2: X X-Fortune: A diplomat is a man who can convince his wife she'd look stout in a fur coat. X-FTP: ftp://ftp.flirble.org/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Julian Elischer wrote (on Jan 06): > so can different routes have different metrics? It's not a different route in this mechanism. It's the same route with a number of gateways. In any case, there are no metrics stored in the BSD routing table that play any part in routing decisions. One of my later "TODO" things will be to let the likes of gated program in route preferences (or route weighting which will probably be easier). There's quite a bit left to do to the hack to make it distribution worthy, what I have, however, works with some restrictions. A number of people have asked for the code, so I'll organise some diffs and put it up later. You'll find it at: ftp://ftp.flirble.org/pub/unix/hacks/FreeBSD/mpath/ some point later on. Things to note with the current working beta: o It only works if the gateways are on the same interface (I need to turn rt_ifp into an array, s'all) o You need to rebuild ifconfig, route and netstat with the patches as shown. o I've not patched routed and have 60% done gated (not tested yet) - if that's what you want you'll have to wait. o The gated release I'm playing with is gated-R3_6Alpha_2 All of this and more will be in a little README, of course. :-) Cheers, Chris. -- == chris@easynet.net, chrisy@flix.net, chrisy@flirble.org. == Head of Systems for Easynet Group PLC. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 01:41:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA06280 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:41:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.196.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA06259 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:40:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp) Received: by outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp id AA03107; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:40:02 +0900 Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.7.6+2.6Wbeta7/3.4W/zodiac-May96) with ESMTP id SAA10164; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:47:25 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199801070947.SAA10164@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> To: Mike Smith Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 06 Jan 1998 23:33:39 +1030." <199801061303.XAA00382@word.smith.net.au> References: <199801061303.XAA00382@word.smith.net.au> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 18:47:24 +0900 From: Kazutaka YOKOTA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >Before bundling and releasing this (or just plastering it into -current >8) I'm looking for: > > - Testers. Naturally, I need people to find my bugs. 8) > > - A better image format. The DIB (.BMP) format is relatively easy to > work with, but a 320x200x8 image runs the best part of 64k, which is > slow to load from floppy and wastes valuable core. How about GIF? Kazu From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 02:31:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA08949 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:31:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from damon.com (root@damon.com [207.170.114.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA08926; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:30:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dap@damon.com) Received: (from dap@localhost) by damon.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) id EAA11945; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 04:30:39 -0600 (CST) From: Damon Anton Permezel Message-Id: <199801071030.EAA11945@damon.com> Subject: jdk115 patch kit (beta) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 04:30:39 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801070046.RAA28404@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Jan 6, 98 05:46:54 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk ftp://freebsd.org/pub/dap/jdk115/patch-kit.tar.gz. The build-test of this kit has yet to complete, and hence also has yet to be tested, but for those eager folks who will want to be whacking at this before I wake up later today, here it is! Enjoy! From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 02:33:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA09220 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:33:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hammer.ipaper.com (hammer.ipaper.com [206.98.137.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA09215 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:33:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from hot_nt (node02.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.2]) by hammer.ipaper.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA14517 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 04:34:48 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980107082705.0094e100@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 08:32:14 -0300 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Capriotti Subject: Re: X based Free installation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk At 11:40 AM 1/6/98 -0800, you wrote: Hey, Tom. I apologize for the misunderstanding I caused. Allow me to explain: > How would a graphically install help? I don't think it would in the >examples you've given. If the CDROM can't be accessed, why would a >graphical install indicate why, and a non-graphical install not? Why >would concepts (info and language) displayed in a graphical dialog box be >lessing confusing if those concepts where displayed in a non-graphical >one? I was thinking of a way to make Free more attractive for other kind of users; As I mentioned before, my goal os making FBSD so attractive - and easy - to install/use that even a secretary could do it. Actualy user buy things that are "neat". A graphical interface would make things look beautiful. Placebo effect, I know, but it would help "spreading the word". Of course a GUI has nothing to do with ease to install or the CD ROM working properly. I was just sharing a couple of my experiences in the installation field. >> Today's instasllation (2.2.1) is a bit better, more user friendly, but I > > Todays installation? 2.2.1 is ancient. Two releases have been made >since. I was just mentioning that 2.2.1 was the one I was talking about; And, Installation of 2.1 and 2.2.1 are not that different, so I thought that it wouldn't have changed that much on newer versions. But I see it did, I am glad to learn about it. But there's something I didn't understand: OK. We wouldn't be able to make one single installation disk (floppy) for FBSD using the X interface. But what if the CD ROM installation ? Can't it be done ? I am not THAT familiar with the processes, so I can't see the difficulty, but, if you get the kernel up and running, and if you have the files on the cd, why whould it be so difficult to put X running too ? I mentioned X, but it culd be a X looking GUI, just to make things LOOK nice. It seems silly, but can make the difference when one is choosing the working platform. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 02:44:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA09964 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:44:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from db2server.voga.com.br (db2server.voga.com.br [200.239.39.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA09934 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:43:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from daniel_sobral@voga.com.br) From: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br Received: from papagaio.voga.com.br (papagaio.voga.com.br [200.239.39.2]) by db2server.voga.com.br (8.8.3+2.6Wbeta9/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA12022; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:44:27 -0200 Received: by papagaio.voga.com.br(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.06 (346.7 3-18-1997)) id 03256585.00407B4B ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:44:18 -0300 X-Lotus-FromDomain: VOGA To: mike@smith.net.au cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <83256585.003EA128.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:44:09 -0300 Subject: Re: Device Driver Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > "More input?" Ok, let me try for "more input"... > Will you be using it to perform end-to-end encryption on sockets? Yup. > How about encrypting the entire contents of ethernet datagrams? Nope. Only the contents of IP packets. Possibly the contents of UDP and TCP packets instead (as I said, that part I am not responsible for). > Is the output of the card complete in itself, or > does it encrypt streams of data? Apart from the various miscellaneous functions, which fit nicely into ioctl, the card does stream encryption, though access to it may be optimized by using it's 8-byte internal buffer. > Again, that depends on how you talk to it. Sometimes you will use the > standard device entries (if you plan to use those semantics from > elsewhere in the kernel), and sometimes you need other interfaces. The problem I see with using the standard device interface is the proc* parameter. The net functions calling the driver will be activated by interrupts. BTW, let me ask a question before I forget it again... :-) The driver itself has no interrupt handler. Now, I intend to use a queue to control the access to the card, and the queue manipulation section is critical. These routines _may_ be called from other interrupt handlers. So, should I spl them? At what level? -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 03:24:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA17289 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 03:24:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA17279 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 03:24:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (brightmn@ppp-36.ts-1.nyc.idt.net [169.132.96.36]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA15251; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 07:25:27 GMT Message-Id: <199801070725.HAA15251@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: , "Capriotti" Subject: Re: X based Free installation Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 06:21:37 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Maybe if you could use libvgl something or other, it uses the VGA hardware which is on almost any system. this would make it so that anyone with a vga card could install freebsd instead of anyone with a vga card supported by Xfree... this might have a chance of fitting on the install disk... i know Xfree has a VGA/VGA16 server, maybe you could use that, in fact if libvgl stops being supported (i hope not) the X program will still work.... making this an option off the CD-ROM isn't a bad idea, if someone could setup freebsd so that this could even be done off of floppie via several disks that wouldn't be that bad either... -Alfred ---------- > From: Capriotti > To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: X based Free installation > Date: Wednesday, January 07, 1998 6:32 AM > > At 11:40 AM 1/6/98 -0800, you wrote: > > Hey, Tom. I apologize for the misunderstanding I caused. Allow me to explain: > > > > How would a graphically install help? I don't think it would in the > >examples you've given. If the CDROM can't be accessed, why would a > >graphical install indicate why, and a non-graphical install not? Why > >would concepts (info and language) displayed in a graphical dialog box be > >lessing confusing if those concepts where displayed in a non-graphical > >one? > > I was thinking of a way to make Free more attractive for other kind of > users; As I mentioned before, my goal os making FBSD so attractive - and > easy - to install/use that even a secretary could do it. > > Actualy user buy things that are "neat". A graphical interface would make > things look beautiful. Placebo effect, I know, but it would help "spreading > the word". > > Of course a GUI has nothing to do with ease to install or the CD ROM > working properly. I was just sharing a couple of my experiences in the > installation field. > > >> Today's instasllation (2.2.1) is a bit better, more user friendly, but I > > > > Todays installation? 2.2.1 is ancient. Two releases have been made > >since. > > I was just mentioning that 2.2.1 was the one I was talking about; And, > Installation of 2.1 and 2.2.1 are not that different, so I thought that it > wouldn't have changed that much on newer versions. But I see it did, I am > glad to learn about it. > > But there's something I didn't understand: > > OK. We wouldn't be able to make one single installation disk (floppy) for > FBSD using the X interface. But what if the CD ROM installation ? Can't it > be done ? > > I am not THAT familiar with the processes, so I can't see the difficulty, > but, if you get the kernel up and running, and if you have the files on the > cd, why whould it be so difficult to put X running too ? > > I mentioned X, but it culd be a X looking GUI, just to make things LOOK > nice. It seems silly, but can make the difference when one is choosing the > working platform. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 03:52:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA18981 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 03:52:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA18951; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 03:51:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA00461; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 03:51:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199801071151.DAA00461@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Damon Anton Permezel cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: jdk115 patch kit (beta) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Jan 1998 04:30:39 CST." <199801071030.EAA11945@damon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 03:51:26 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > ftp://freebsd.org/pub/dap/jdk115/patch-kit.tar.gz. > > The build-test of this kit has yet to complete, and hence also has yet to > be tested, but for those eager folks who will want to be whacking at this > before I wake up later today, here it is! > > Enjoy! > Tnks A Lot!! Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 04:37:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA21292 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 04:37:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp3.portal.net.au [202.12.71.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA21273 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 04:36:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA00238; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:49:29 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801071119.VAA00238@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Kazutaka YOKOTA cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Jan 1998 18:47:24 +0900." <199801070947.SAA10164@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 21:49:28 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > - A better image format. The DIB (.BMP) format is relatively easy to > > work with, but a 320x200x8 image runs the best part of 64k, which is > > slow to load from floppy and wastes valuable core. > > How about GIF? Sure. Do you have a compact decoder? I'm more than aware of the various formats around; as I said the *only* reason I used DIB was that parsing it is so simple that even the Windows weenies can do it. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 04:40:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA21806 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 04:40:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp3.portal.net.au [202.12.71.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA21768 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 04:40:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA00279; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 23:03:57 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801071233.XAA00279@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Alfred Perlstein" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, "Capriotti" Subject: Re: X based Free installation In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Jan 1998 06:21:37 CDT." <199801070725.HAA15251@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 23:03:56 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Maybe if you could use libvgl something or other, it uses the VGA hardware > which is on almost any system. this would make it so that anyone with a > vga card could install freebsd instead of anyone with a vga card supported > by Xfree... One paragraph higlighting the technical (as opposed to practical) fallacies behind all this crap. - VGA hardware is not "on almost any system". Especially as you move into really serious applications, fewer systems have any display hardware at all. - XFree supports "generic" VGA cards just fine. In addition, there are perfectly adequate X servers for PC hardware that would let you use other systems for the bringup. The *real* problem, as Jordan has pointed out, is that there are far too many of you willing to crap on at great length about how wonderful this would be. And nobody with the conviction to actually *DO* something about it. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 04:43:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA22230 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 04:43:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp3.portal.net.au [202.12.71.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA22205 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 04:43:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA00299; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 23:07:01 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801071237.XAA00299@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Mike Smith cc: Kazutaka YOKOTA , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Jan 1998 21:49:28 +1030." <199801071119.VAA00238@word.smith.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 23:07:01 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > How about GIF? > > Sure. Do you have a compact decoder? I'm more than aware of the > various formats around; as I said the *only* reason I used DIB was that > parsing it is so simple that even the Windows weenies can do it. Just to take this a little further; if there is consensus that being able to use "normal" Windows-style startup screens is a Good Thing, and that splash-fiends are willing to live with a 64K hit for the image, then I'll stop worrying about it and move on. (I'm working on making it work in the kzip environment tonight; when I'm done I plan to remove the compile-it-in option altogether.) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 05:43:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA25940 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 05:43:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp3.portal.net.au [202.12.71.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA25931 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 05:43:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA01091; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 00:03:31 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801071333.AAA01091@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br cc: mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Device Driver In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Jan 1998 08:44:09 -0300." <83256585.003EA128.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 00:03:29 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > Will you be using it to perform end-to-end encryption on sockets? > > Yup. > > > How about encrypting the entire contents of ethernet datagrams? > > Nope. Only the contents of IP packets. Possibly the contents of UDP and TCP > packets instead (as I said, that part I am not responsible for). OK. > > Is the output of the card complete in itself, or > > does it encrypt streams of data? > > Apart from the various miscellaneous functions, which fit nicely into > ioctl, the card does stream encryption, though access to it may be > optimized by using it's 8-byte internal buffer. Fair enough. How do you maintain state for each open stream? > > Again, that depends on how you talk to it. Sometimes you will use the > > standard device entries (if you plan to use those semantics from > > elsewhere in the kernel), and sometimes you need other interfaces. > > The problem I see with using the standard device interface is the proc* > parameter. The net functions calling the driver will be activated by > interrupts. This is not necessarily the case. For outbound data, the call to enqueue the data (at least) will be made by the sending process. It would not be unreasonable for the send to block the process until encryption is completed. For incoming data, the decryption could be postponed until the consumer actually reads from the socket, although as soon as you have a socket in mind you have access to the proc structure belonging to the socket's owner. Another alternative would be to create a kernel process (like the update daemon) which serviced the encryption/decryption queues. This would give you a process context on which you could sleep. > BTW, let me ask a question before I forget it again... :-) The driver > itself has no interrupt handler. Now, I intend to use a queue to control > the access to the card, and the queue manipulation section is critical. > These routines _may_ be called from other interrupt handlers. So, should I > spl them? At what level? What level are you going to call them from? Are you capable of writing queue manipulation code that can survive interleaved head and tail operations? If not, you want to make sure that you spl them high enough to avoid any reentry. If in doubt, err on the side of caution. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 05:47:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA26200 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 05:47:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from itesec.hsc.fr (root@itesec.hsc.fr [192.70.106.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA26181 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 05:47:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pb@hsc.fr) Received: from mars.hsc.fr (pb@mars.hsc.fr [192.70.106.44]) by itesec.hsc.fr (8.8.8/8.8.5/itesec-1.10-nospam) with ESMTP id OAA20698; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:46:12 +0100 (MET) Received: (from pb@localhost) by mars.hsc.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5/pb-19970301) id OAA26788; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:46:11 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980107144611.QR04531@mars.hsc.fr> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:46:11 +0100 From: Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr (Pierre Beyssac) To: khansen@njcc.com Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), capriotti@geocities.com (Capriotti), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X based Free installation References: <724.884107725@time.cdrom.com> <34B2776D.7E87@njcc.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.59.1e Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <34B2776D.7E87@njcc.com>; from Ken Hansen on Jan 6, 1998 13:26:53 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk According to Ken Hansen: > The current instal diskette is easliy as good as the install > tools provided in comercial linux (Red Hat and Caldera) distributions, IMHO, FreeBSD install is as good as any other for the novice user, and probably better for the expert user. I saw a Caldera install once... Extremely nice and flashy when you can choose the package list under X11. But it *really* sucks (or at least, it sucked when I saw it) when it comes to reporting disk I/O errors, for instance: it just stuck there without any message, just as if it was extracting the packages. After one hour or so you're still waiting for it without any idea what is going on. It obviously makes problem solving that much harder. One real problem with GUI stuff of all kinds is that it's too often designed without any error checking in mind. Especially when it's just an install program that you use only once... -- Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 06:27:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA02979 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 06:27:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hammer.ipaper.com (hammer.ipaper.com [206.98.137.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA02968 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 06:27:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from hot_nt (node48.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.48]) by hammer.ipaper.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA29409 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:28:57 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980107120754.00943100@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 12:26:31 -0300 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Capriotti Subject: Re: X based Free installation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk REF. Mike's comment: Unfortunately, I just can't code (in C or c++ at least, which would be the way to start making something happen) so, many times I may be discussing things that are not that easy to do. But what I'm trying to say is that there are other approaches to the final user that can be used to make FBSD even better in another way: The final user approval; That really matters ! Now this point was REALLY interesting: >One real problem with GUI stuff of all kinds is that it's too often >designed without any error checking in mind. Especially when it's >just an install program that you use only once... >-- >Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr If an installer program is not well developed "just" becouse it will be used only once, oh well, than just change the use that you have for the program, just like what happens to FBSD installer: it installs, upgrades and allows several changes in the system. It's a multiple purpose application that is worth spending time to make errors free. Another option I thought of being of some interest for final users would be an installation option where, after installation, the system would start X directly. Non tech ppl like things to be easy. Out of the box, being ready to use. But this would be a future step, I guess. I dream of finding Free being used at offices, with standard office applications, that's why I give so much importance to this non tech unimportant "crap". From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 06:54:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA05346 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 06:54:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA05336 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 06:54:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (brightmn@ppp-36.ts-1.nyc.idt.net [169.132.96.36]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA16286; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:54:19 GMT Message-Id: <199801071054.KAA16286@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: "Kazutaka YOKOTA" , "Mike Smith" Cc: "Mike Smith" , Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:50:29 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk if you are willing to delay the incorperation of the gif code i have something in one of my books i think it's a mix of C and assembler i hope C... don't totally count on it yet at least until the 20th, if you remind me then i'll see if i can get it to you... -Alfred ---------- > From: Mike Smith > To: Kazutaka YOKOTA > Cc: Mike Smith ; hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... > Date: Wednesday, January 07, 1998 6:19 AM > > > > - A better image format. The DIB (.BMP) format is relatively easy to > > > work with, but a 320x200x8 image runs the best part of 64k, which is > > > slow to load from floppy and wastes valuable core. > > > > How about GIF? > > Sure. Do you have a compact decoder? I'm more than aware of the > various formats around; as I said the *only* reason I used DIB was that > parsing it is so simple that even the Windows weenies can do it. > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 08:27:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA12216 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:27:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from db2server.voga.com.br (db2server.voga.com.br [200.239.39.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA11958 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:22:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from daniel_sobral@voga.com.br) From: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br Received: from papagaio.voga.com.br (papagaio.voga.com.br [200.239.39.2]) by db2server.voga.com.br (8.8.3+2.6Wbeta9/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA09944 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:22:12 -0200 Received: by papagaio.voga.com.br(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.06 (346.7 3-18-1997)) id 03256585.005F6924 ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:22:08 -0300 X-Lotus-FromDomain: VOGA To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <83256585.005F0D72.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:22:04 -0300 Subject: make_device_driver.sh Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Ok, I have some partial diffs to make it create a LKM squeleton too. The main problem is that io base address and irq number must be hardwired into the lkm's Makefile, and that's not too desirable, is it? Is there any (easy) way around this? Another thing... I don't know how to do the same to make_pseudo_driver.sh. Apart from that, I should submit the PR later today. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 08:32:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA12636 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:32:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from george.lbl.gov (george-2.lbl.gov [131.243.2.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA12616 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:32:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jin@george.lbl.gov) Received: (from jin@localhost) by george.lbl.gov (8.8.8/LBL-ITG) id IAA09184; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:32:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:32:09 -0800 (PST) From: Jin Guojun (ITG staff) Message-Id: <199801071632.IAA09184@george.lbl.gov> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, pjchilds@imforei.apana.org.au Subject: Re: suggestion on using boot.config Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk } In article <199712160444.UAA16864@george.lbl.gov> you wrote: } > I do not know if this is a good place to address this issue. } } > For remote development, I would like to modified "boot.c" to rename } > "/boot.config" to either "/boot.config.run" or "/boot.config.last" } > after readfile("boot.config", boot_config, BOOT_CONFIG_SIZE); } } Hmm... doesn't "nextboot" do what you want? } } (I've only read the man page on it so don't shoot me if it doesn't) } } Peter Nop. It doesn't matter what I put in the nextboot strings, it just boots from the default /kernel. According to the man page: nextboot -b /dev/rwd0 1:sd(0,a)/kernel.experimental wd(0,a)/kernel.old I changed it to : nextboot -b /dev/rwd0 1:wd(0,a)/kernel.test wd(0,a)/kernel Nothing happenes. -Jin From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 08:58:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA14736 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:58:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from main.brewich.com (USR2-1.detnet.com [207.113.12.34] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA14261 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:52:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gclarkii@main.brewich.com) Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by main.brewich.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA02364 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:52:55 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from gclarkii) From: "Gary B. Clark II" Message-Id: <199801071652.KAA02364@main.brewich.com> Subject: Re: Motif question To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:52:54 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: <199801070046.RAA28404@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Jan 6, 98 05:46:54 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Nate Williams wrote: > > The jdk115 port uses lesstif-0.81. > > *yuck* That is why I'm still using jdk1.1.2... It is linked aginst(sic) lesstif vice linking motif and supplying lesstif... > > > I am attempting to resolve some issues pertaining to running some AOL > > messenger s/w which comes as a Java application. > > > > (BTW: running this with anything but mwm causes the X-server to rapidly bloat > > until all 500meg of swap space is consumed!) This is the lesstif libs going south.... > > The AOL software, or the JDK in general? We've have really good luck > with your last binary release, although lots of AWT stuff is broken, and > Swing components don't work at all. I'm running the 1.1.2 jdk here, downloaded the new swing just last night, ran the demo and it works like a charm. The only errors (2 exceptions) are known bugs that are fixed in jdk1.1.5. Nate, Why do you have so many problems with awt and all of my code works fine? What version of Motif do you have there???? > > Nate Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 09:02:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA15208 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:02:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whqvax.picker.com (whqvax.picker.com [144.54.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA15198 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:02:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rhh@ct.picker.com) Received: from ct.picker.com by whqvax.picker.com with SMTP; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:59:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from elmer.ct.picker.com by ct.picker.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09697; Wed, 7 Jan 98 11:59:33 EST Received: by elmer.ct.picker.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA26258; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:58:33 -0500 Message-Id: <19980107115833.13310@ct.picker.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:58:33 -0500 From: Randall Hopper To: Mike Smith Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... References: <199801061303.XAA00382@word.smith.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81 In-Reply-To: <199801061303.XAA00382@word.smith.net.au>; from Mike Smith on Tue, Jan 06, 1998 at 11:33:39PM +1030 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Mike Smith: |This appears to have been lost in the christmastime mail mangle... | |Some people may remember the 'splashkit' I did for 2.2 systems early |last year. After not a little tinkering, I've adapted this for 3.0. I remember trying this last May. Pretty cool. |8) I'm looking for: | | - Testers. Naturally, I need people to find my bugs. 8) Would be happy to give it a whirl. (Hopefully the 971208 SNAP is sufficient.) I also would second supporting the 320x400x8 color cycling BMPs that there are tons of pre-built for MSW95 (in a future version perhaps). Color cycling's good for letting newbie users know the machine's not locked up. I'm also interested in seeing if a few things I found in the 2.2 version were/will be addressed. E.g.: - Splash should auto-dismiss itself when booting gets to the syscons login prompt (i.e. not running xdm) - If I started X with the splash on, X works OK, but bringing down X yields a corrupted screen (guess it doesn't kick-in a redraw when switching out of syscons mode) Randall From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 09:21:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA17075 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:21:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA17036; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:21:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA29323; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:21:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA01318; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:21:34 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:21:34 -0700 Message-Id: <199801071721.KAA01318@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Damon Anton Permezel Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: jdk115 patch kit (beta) In-Reply-To: <199801071030.EAA11945@damon.com> References: <199801070046.RAA28404@mt.sri.com> <199801071030.EAA11945@damon.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > ftp://freebsd.org/pub/dap/jdk115/patch-kit.tar.gz. > > The build-test of this kit has yet to complete, and hence also has yet to > be tested, but for those eager folks who will want to be whacking at this > before I wake up later today, here it is! Thank you very much!!! Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 09:47:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA20374 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:47:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA20311 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:47:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xpecQ-0005wR-00; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:24:54 -0800 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:24:28 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: FreeBSD Hacker cc: Jim Bryant , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Informix on FreeBSD (maybe) (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, FreeBSD Hacker wrote: > Ok guys, first I'll say I've spent the last week trying to get PostGreSQL > to work with windows, unsuccessfully. Second, I think that the bottom > line is that FreeBSD needs to have its own integrated database system > based on noone elses technology. This will be a winner, because we all Bizzare reasoning. Basically what you are saying, since you couldn't get PostgreSQL working (and all source is provided), you want to instead start coding a new RDMS system from scratch? I think that if you can't figure out PostgreSQL, you won't be figure out how to make a brandnew database. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 09:48:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA20412 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:48:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA20329 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:47:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xperj-0005x4-00; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:40:43 -0800 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:40:38 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Capriotti cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X based Free installation In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980106111025.0068aeec@pop.mpc.com.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Capriotti wrote: > Hey, folks. > > Is there any plan to make a X based installation for FreeBSD ? > > I've been thinking: It could make things easyer for those ppl - like me - > who have in-depth WINDOS background. ... > I was VERY frustrated when I first tryed to install Free (Back to 2.1 > version) and I just couldn't, because it wouldn't recognize my IDE CD-ROM > drive, and there was no clue why... then, when I was able to get the CD > working (long time and several attempts latter), I got very confused about > those new and hermetic concepts, info and language. And I was not exactly a > rookie. How would a graphically install help? I don't think it would in the examples you've given. If the CDROM can't be accessed, why would a graphical install indicate why, and a non-graphical install not? Why would concepts (info and language) displayed in a graphical dialog box be lessing confusing if those concepts where displayed in a non-graphical one? Don't get stuck in the trap that GUI is better, because. If the language is not understandable, it will not become understandable in a GUI. > Today's instasllation (2.2.1) is a bit better, more user friendly, but I Todays installation? 2.2.1 is ancient. Two releases have been made since. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 09:48:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA20420 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:48:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA20332 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:47:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xpekJ-0005wj-00; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:33:03 -0800 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:33:02 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Capriotti cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SFT In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980106141532.0068a330@pop.mpc.com.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Capriotti wrote: > Does anyone have any news about System Fault Tolerance under Free ? > > Like what Novell has, from mirrowed disks to mirrowed servers ? Mirrored disks can be done with ccd. Mirrored servers are basically what Unix types call a cluster. On Novell this is easy, because Novell boxes are basically just file servers, but a Unix box could be doing many different things. Migrating tasks from the failed system to the working system, and assumption of the IP traffic, is difficult. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 09:51:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA21063 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:51:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cedb.dpcsys.com (cedb.dpcsys.com [206.16.184.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA21023 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:50:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@dpcsys.com) Received: from localhost (dan@localhost) by cedb.dpcsys.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with SMTP id RAA23556; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:50:40 GMT Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:50:39 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Busarow To: FreeBSD Hacker cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Informix on FreeBSD (maybe) (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, FreeBSD Hacker wrote: > a) I was under the impression that mysql was kind of cheese-ball. At > least PostGreSQL has some commercial support. Have you looked at mysql at all? It's a commercial product that happens to have a very liberal license allowing free use in most cases. If you do need to pay the license fees are better than mSQL's. They also have annual maintenance contracts available. I just realized that the name does make it sound cheesy in American, but this is a Finish company and "my" doesn't mean "mine". I think I heard that "my" are the initials of the primary developer's daughter. > www.openlinksw.com > b) The very expensive ODBC drivers I have for PostGre have a problem with > deleting from tables, everything else seems to work fine, but the access > control is kind of nonexistent (i.e. I use firewall rules). They very cheap odbc driver I have for mysql works fine :) And mysql's access control works too well. It's kind of a hassle setting it up but you don't need to worry about unauthorized access unless you specificly open it up. Dan -- Dan Busarow 714 443 4172 DPC Systems / Beach.Net dan@dpcsys.com Dana Point, California 83 09 EF 59 E0 11 89 B4 8D 09 DB FD E1 DD 0C 82 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 09:52:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA21343 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:52:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from brady.appliedtheory.com (brady.appliedtheory.com [192.77.173.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA21302 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:52:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brady@brady.appliedtheory.com) Received: from brady.appliedtheory.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by brady.appliedtheory.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA05147; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:53:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34B3C117.EC1D3556@brady.appliedtheory.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 12:53:28 -0500 From: Michael Brady Reply-To: mbrady@appliedtheory.com Organization: AppliedTheory Communications, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Handy CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HTTPD Question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Brian Handy wrote: > So, when I get something like this in my logs, what do you think it means? > > ahab.rutgers.edu - - [06/Jan/1998:10:33:18 -0800] "GET > /cgi-bin/phf?Jserver=x%0auname%20-a%0aid%0aecho%20lamer%0a&Qname=x > HTTP/1.0" 404 164 > > And httpd-errors: > > [Tue Jan 6 10:33:18 1998] access to /usr/local/www/cgi-bin/phf failed for > ahab.rutgers.edu, reason: script not found or unable to stat > > Running apache-1.2.4, and I don't have any CGI scripts available to run. > Just wondering out loud if I've got a problem. > FYI, you're not alone. The same prick tried to hit my system too with this old exploit: ahab.rutgers.edu - - [06/Jan/1998:17:48:52 -0500] "GET /cgi-bin/phf?Jserver=x%0auname%20-a%0aid%0aecho%20lamer%0a&Qname=x HTTP/1.0" 404 154 Jserver=x;uname -a;id;echo lamer; Qname=x This would of just relayed your systems basic information (type & version) and the server user's info. I guess he got ahold of some list and went nuts. The machine's IP is 128.6.142.5 and is not online when I checked (pings failed). Hopefully it's because people flooded the bastard. Anyone else get hit? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 10:18:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA23975 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:18:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA23953 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:18:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA29694; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:17:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA01786; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:17:49 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:17:49 -0700 Message-Id: <199801071817.LAA01786@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Gary B. Clark II" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Motif question In-Reply-To: <199801071652.KAA02364@main.brewich.com> References: <199801070046.RAA28404@mt.sri.com> <199801071652.KAA02364@main.brewich.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > The jdk115 port uses lesstif-0.81. > > > > *yuck* > That is why I'm still using jdk1.1.2... > It is linked aginst(sic) lesstif vice linking motif and supplying lesstif... ???? I couldn't parse the above sentence... > > The AOL software, or the JDK in general? We've have really good luck > > with your last binary release, although lots of AWT stuff is broken, and > > Swing components don't work at all. > > I'm running the 1.1.2 jdk here, downloaded the new swing just last night, ran > the demo and it works like a charm. I'm surprised, since Sun claims that you need at least V1.1.3 to run Swing reliably. > Nate, > > Why do you have so many problems with awt and all of my code works fine? I don't have any problems with AWT other than due to bugs in the AWT. But, I do have all sorts of problems due to bugs in Swing. We use the swing components in a *real* (ie, we get paid for doing this) application that a couple hundred thousand lines of Java, which uses both the AWT and the swingset components extensively. These bugs exist under Solaris and Win32, so it's not a FreeBSD issue. > What version of Motif do you have there???? I have both V1.2 and V2.0 (both from Xinside), but neither of them work reliably if I use them replace the LessTif shlib. The former dies with __Xcatgets or somesuch runtime link errors, and the latter just dies randomly, usually as soon as I try to bring up any graphic component. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 10:32:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA25220 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:32:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from damon.com (root@damon.com [207.170.114.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA25203 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:32:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dap@damon.com) Received: (from dap@localhost) by damon.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) id MAA13303; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:31:14 -0600 (CST) From: Damon Anton Permezel Message-Id: <199801071831.MAA13303@damon.com> Subject: Re: Motif question To: gclarkii@main.brewich.com (Gary B. Clark II) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:31:14 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801071652.KAA02364@main.brewich.com> from "Gary B. Clark II" at "Jan 7, 98 10:52:54 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk "Gary B. Clark II sez: " > Nate Williams wrote: > > > The jdk115 port uses lesstif-0.81. > > > > *yuck* > That is why I'm still using jdk1.1.2... > It is linked aginst(sic) lesstif vice linking motif and supplying lesstif... Where did you get this from? I had to move away from 112 because the simple "this is my first Java app" I was writing kept causing the compiler to crap out. (not a porting issue, as the AIX version suffered similarly). Additionally, several bugs I fixed in the port, I rely upon (some causal implications here for the philosophical). Namely, FP was broken, randomly losing the FP state. Also, the native method invokation neglected to save/restore a register, which resulted in fanciful wanderings/references upon return. The 115 port, while still quite buggy, in part possibly due to a bunch of awt/motif changes between 114 and 115, seems at times to be more buggy than 114 (and 114 fixed most of the compiler problems). There are varying requirements, which appear to be met with varying degrees of success by the various ports. Perhaps we can attempt a coordinated effort to address some of these problems? (Attempting to move this to freebsd-java...) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 10:33:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA25370 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:33:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from support.euronet.nl (support.euronet.nl [194.134.32.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA25357 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:33:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from beng@euronet.nl) Received: (from beng@localhost) by support.euronet.nl (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA04945 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:32:55 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <199801071832.TAA04945@support.euronet.nl> Subject: FS interface to sockets? To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:32:55 +0100 (CET) From: Benjamin Gras Reply-To: ben@nl.euro.net (Benjamin Gras) X-Bad-Religion: Rules X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Greetings guys, to decide whether or not I should finish off a little util I've been working on, I'd like to ask the following quick question: * Is there currently an interface to sockets other than the socket(2) call? background: In particular, I'd like higher access granularity to the raw (AF_INET) IP sockets, having the twofold advantage of network utilities like ping(8) and traceroute(8) not needing to run suid-root (along with other, new, potentially untrusted software), and secondly providing distinction between e.g. raw ip and icmp sockets. I'm thinking in terms of providing access to raw sockets, subject to access restrictions of a node in /dev per protocol (so you'd have /dev/ip_raw, /dev/ip_icmp, /dev/ip_udp, and so on). The minor device number would be the direct protocol number. This exists on (God keep us) Solaris. Now I've searched around for a similar interface under FreeBSD, but apart from a few short comments on this list about the naming of nodes with the new devfs (/dev/net/*), I've found nothing (FAQ, handbook, mailling lists, LINT config, kernel sources, ..).. The context on this list seemed to be one of an obsolete system, is this the case? Now I've written a kernel module that does what I want (be a device driver for socket(AF_INET, SOCK_RAW, %d)), and it seems to work nicely. Should I finish it up, apply for a major device number and publish it? Or has it already been done? Info welcome. =Ben From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 11:07:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA28565 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:07:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iafnl.es.iaf.nl (uucp@iafnl.es.iaf.nl [195.108.17.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA28157 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:01:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA18885 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Wed, 7 Jan 1998 20:01:57 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id TAA00718 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:23:08 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199801071823.TAA00718@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: weird natd setup, can use input on how-to To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:23:08 +0100 (MET) X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I'm currently in the process of building a weird natd setup that I could use some help with: - we have a lab full of Unix boxes, all on an ethernet with 192.168.200.xxx adresses - I also have a FreeBSD2.2.2 box with 2x le card, one connected to the lab network, the other to our production network with address 16.198.16.101 On the lab net it is 192.168.200.1 This box is called storgate. It has natd running - then there is a Digital Unix box with 16.198.16.26 called storage. 'storage' shares the same network cable with storgate - then there is a FreeBSD2.2.2R box which is my personal Unix box called 'wilkux'. It has 16.198.208.11 - for the sake of the discussion I assume one Sun Solaris box on the lab net with 192.168.200.23. Machine is called sparc20 I'm as far as getting ping to work from the storage to the sparc20. I can also get out from the sparc20 to everywhere on 16.xxx.xxx.xxx (gatekeeper.dec.com won't let me go further ;-) ) What does not want to work is telnet from storage to sparc20. Natd shows the translations going on (with -v) but the connection times out. Another problem: since wilkux is not on the same subnet as storgate I have to give it a default route to the router responsible for the 16.198.208 network. Of course I want to set a route for 192.168.200.xxx to go thru storgate. Question: can I get 192.168.200.xxx to be routed at all? It is a RFC(I forgot) network which is supposed to be non-routed. When I ping to sparc20 from wilkux I end up getting an 'unreachable' from gatekeeper.dec.com. Apparantly the router handling wilkux default route *does* try to route the 192.168.200.xxx addresses. This also means the packets never arrive at storgate. What are the chances of ever getting this to work? I'm not a network expert so I sure could use some help. Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' --------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix -- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 11:30:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA01215 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:30:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA01207 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:29:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA01483; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:29:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199801071929.LAA01483@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Nate Williams cc: "Gary B. Clark II" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Motif question In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Jan 1998 11:17:49 MST." <199801071817.LAA01786@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 11:29:37 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > What version of Motif do you have there???? > > I have both V1.2 and V2.0 (both from Xinside), but neither of them work > reliably if I use them replace the LessTif shlib. The former dies with > __Xcatgets or somesuch runtime link errors, and the latter just dies > randomly, usually as soon as I try to bring up any graphic component. I don't have any such problems over here with Motif V2.0 and jdk1.1.5 compiled on my system. whenever I run the swing components demo it seems to work over here . I haven't test it java extensively since I just finished compiling java about 20 minutes ago 8) Tnks Damon! Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 11:33:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA01580 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:33:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA01549 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:33:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA00412; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:32:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA02433; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:32:56 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:32:56 -0700 Message-Id: <199801071932.MAA02433@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Amancio Hasty Cc: Nate Williams , "Gary B. Clark II" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Motif question In-Reply-To: <199801071929.LAA01483@rah.star-gate.com> References: <199801071817.LAA01786@mt.sri.com> <199801071929.LAA01483@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > I have both V1.2 and V2.0 (both from Xinside), but neither of them work > > reliably if I use them replace the LessTif shlib. The former dies with > > __Xcatgets or somesuch runtime link errors, and the latter just dies > > randomly, usually as soon as I try to bring up any graphic component. > I don't have any such problems over here with Motif V2.0 and jdk1.1.5 compiled > on my system. whenever I run the swing components demo it seems to work > over here . I haven't test it java extensively since I just finished > compiling java about 20 minutes ago 8) That makes sense, since my JDK1.1.2 compiled privately against Motif worked *great* for most things. It seemed to work as well as the Sun JDK under light testing. However, I wasn't able to replace the LessTif library with the Motif binary in the publically available binary release, so that's why I applaud dap's patch. This way I can compile up my own 'private' release that uses Motif, which I already know will work better. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 11:35:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA01756 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:35:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [209.47.148.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA01633 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:34:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.8.8/8.7.5) with SMTP id OAA19148; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:33:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:33:39 -0500 (EST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: Tom cc: FreeBSD Hacker , Jim Bryant , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Informix on FreeBSD (maybe) (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Tom wrote: > > On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, FreeBSD Hacker wrote: > > > Ok guys, first I'll say I've spent the last week trying to get PostGreSQL > > to work with windows, unsuccessfully. Second, I think that the bottom > > line is that FreeBSD needs to have its own integrated database system > > based on noone elses technology. This will be a winner, because we all > > Bizzare reasoning. Basically what you are saying, since you couldn't > get PostgreSQL working (and all source is provided) Actually, in his defence...he's saying that he couldn't get PostgreSQL to work with windows...I'm assuming that he could get PostgreSQL working under Unix (specially considering that there is a port of it) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 12:18:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA05959 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:18:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (d182-89.uoregon.edu [128.223.182.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA05922 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:17:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA01678; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:17:27 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19980107121727.55819@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:17:27 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Benjamin Gras Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FS interface to sockets? References: <199801071832.TAA04945@support.euronet.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199801071832.TAA04945@support.euronet.nl>; from Benjamin Gras on Wed, Jan 07, 1998 at 07:32:55PM +0100 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Benjamin Gras scribbled this message on Jan 7: > I'm thinking in terms of providing access to raw sockets, subject to > access restrictions of a node in /dev per protocol (so you'd have /dev/ip_raw, > /dev/ip_icmp, /dev/ip_udp, and so on). The minor device number would be > the direct protocol number. This exists on (God keep us) Solaris. > > Now I've searched around for a similar interface under FreeBSD, but apart > from a few short comments on this list about the naming of nodes with the > new devfs (/dev/net/*), I've found nothing (FAQ, handbook, mailling lists, > LINT config, kernel sources, ..).. The context on this list seemed to be one > of an obsolete system, is this the case? > > Now I've written a kernel module that does what I want (be a device > driver for socket(AF_INET, SOCK_RAW, %d)), and it seems to > work nicely. Should I finish it up, apply for a major device number and > publish it? Or has it already been done? yep... look at mount_portal... I haven't tested it... but this is what should be used to things like this... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 13:27:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA12183 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:27:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA12157 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:27:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA16380; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:26:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd016332; Wed Jan 7 14:26:40 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA08825; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:26:34 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199801072126.OAA08825@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: X based Free installation To: tom@sdf.com (Tom) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:26:34 +0000 (GMT) Cc: capriotti@geocities.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Tom" at Jan 6, 98 11:40:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > How would a graphically install help? I don't think it would in the > examples you've given. If the CDROM can't be accessed, why would a > graphical install indicate why, and a non-graphical install not? Why > would concepts (info and language) displayed in a graphical dialog box be > lessing confusing if those concepts where displayed in a non-graphical > one? > > Don't get stuck in the trap that GUI is better, because. If the > language is not understandable, it will not become understandable in a > GUI. I like graphical installs because: 1) They tend to be procedurally linear. Unlike a menu, which you can choose to do out of order, and maybe forget something or accidently leave it out, when something is procedurally linear, it forces the person who is installing to go through the same procedure as all other people who are doing the install. 2) They tend to hide complexity. Many people call this "dumbing down", which isn't really a fair call. You can still allow for an "Advanced..." button to expose additional options. But if you design so that the "Advanced..." button is not used in the default case, then you, the designer, have to take into account a lot of things that you would otherwise force the user to have to think about. And the user may not be qualified, like you supposedly are... 3) They tend to make it so you answer questions only once. For a network install, it always pisses me off that I have to set up my network twice... once for the install, and again for the post-install. If I give a computer some information, I damn well expect it to remember it for me, or I would be using 3x5 cards, not a computer. 4) They "fold" installs for the lowest common denominator. This may seem like a repeat of #2. It's not. #2 hides _unnecessary_ complexity. Folding also hides _necessary_ complexity. This is the difference between the Windows 95 "Default", "Portable", and "Custom" options. Only in the "custom" case do you even expose non-default possibilities for even "non-advanced" settings. You ask the minimum number of procedurally linear questions to get the user up and running with the default settings. In other words, "option + next/back/cancel" for all dialogs, with the smallest possible number of dialogs. Now with all this said, it IS possible to make non-graphical installs that do this. The Windows 3.1 install is a good example. But such examples do not abound in the real world; they are few and far between. In practice, if you give a programmer the option of doing something three different ways, then they will make them all work, and you won't be able to point at any one of them and say with authorit "this is the one true way". For an end user, this sucks. All the end user wants is for you to tell them "the one true way", and then get the hell out of their face with your "or you can..."'s, go back to your cubicle, and put your propeller-beanie back on your head, and hibernate until the next time they need to know "the one true way" (this is their point of view I'm representing here; I'm sure few of us actually own propeller-beanies). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 13:42:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA14228 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:42:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14084 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:42:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA26959; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:41:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd026929; Wed Jan 7 14:41:42 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA09844; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:41:23 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199801072141.OAA09844@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Motif question To: dap@damon.com (Damon Anton Permezel) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:41:23 +0000 (GMT) Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801070110.TAA09855@damon.com> from "Damon Anton Permezel" at Jan 6, 98 07:10:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > "Nate Williams sez: " > > > The jdk115 port uses lesstif-0.81. > > > > *yuck* > > Why? What are the (free) alternatives? Although I would rather get back > to actually trying to write some Java code, rather than debugging AWT/Lesstif > interactions, I might be tempted to argue that we should be working towards > either making lesstif better, or AWT Motif-independent. Lesstif engaged in some reverse engineering practices for Motif that are highly questionable. If I were OSF (er... "The Open Group"), I would wait until Lesstif actually worked, then I would bury them in lawyers. After all, Motif is OSF's major revenue source. Also depending on Lesstif before it actually works is asking for trouble. Or beta-testers. Whatever. > > > (BTW: running this with anything but mwm causes the X-server to rapidly bloat > > > until all 500meg of swap space is consumed!) > > > > The AOL software, or the JDK in general? We've have really good luck > > with your last binary release, although lots of AWT stuff is broken, and > > Swing components don't work at all. > > I care not for the AOL s/w, except for the fact that it causes immediate > X-server death unless one uses mwm or afterstep, and that it also causes > SEGV or ABRT traps, and I'd like to remove as many bugs as possible from the > next beta of the JDK port. This is a problem with the Lesstif's ICCCMP stuff; specifically, when there is not anyone on the other end of the phone, they shouldn't be interning atoms. I personally haven't gotten into the Lesstif sources any more than I've gotten into the OSF/Motif sources, since I didn't want to be contaminated from working on a Motif clone, by association. > The main issue is time, I guess, and the "cleanup source and figure out how > to generate diffs" task just keeps getting lower priority. Heh. My main issue was the infernal "dladdr" that the FreeBSD dynamic loading code doesn't provide. The 1.1.5 stuff uses it to get the path of the shared library that's calling it so that it can go up two directories and down one to find where it left it's classes.zip. 8-(. Stupid way to do it... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 13:47:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA14796 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:47:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14772 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:47:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA28396; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:47:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd028377; Wed Jan 7 14:47:27 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA10235; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:47:26 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199801072147.OAA10235@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Motif question To: dap@damon.com (Damon Anton Permezel) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:47:25 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801062344.RAA09428@damon.com> from "Damon Anton Permezel" at Jan 6, 98 05:44:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > From the java:awt_util.c source, it thinks the struct, which hangs off a > vendor specific field in the widget struct > > ve = (XmVendorShellExtObject) extData->widget; > if ((im_info = (XmImInfo *) ve->vendor.im_info) == NULL) > return NULL; > else > return im_info->iclist; This is actually an error in the java:awt_util.c source. This is an opaque strucutre, and therefore Java is not allowed to look in it, or it becomes implementation dependent. moxFTP does the same type of crap with internal fontlists for a widget subclasssed (improperly, IMO) off a text input box instead of off of a File Selector or something else, making it a badly behaved application as well. > It picks up the `iclist', (random garbage) and faults. > > Obviously, the java:awt port for FreeBSD based on lesstif-0.81 should be > modified, but I would appreciate if anyone could provide me any pointers > so I could have the faintest idea as to what the hell is going on here. > I really don't want to have to live-and-breathe Motif, but I would like a > glimmer of understanding as to the issues here. This is an icon manager icon list. It assumes you can reparent the management of icons by the icon manager. I'd be interested in what the heck JAVA thinks it's doing here. Whatever it's doing... it's wrong to be doing the way it is doing it. The "correct" way would probably be to subclass, or, more likely, rewrite the widget whose internals it's trying to peek into. 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 14:11:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA17092 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:11:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA17059 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:11:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA04796; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:10:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd004771; Wed Jan 7 15:10:52 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA11976; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:10:40 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199801072210.PAA11976@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: X based Free installation To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 22:10:40 +0000 (GMT) Cc: perlsta@sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, capriotti@geocities.com In-Reply-To: <199801071233.XAA00279@word.smith.net.au> from "Mike Smith" at Jan 7, 98 11:03:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > One paragraph higlighting the technical (as opposed to practical) > fallacies behind all this crap. > > - VGA hardware is not "on almost any system". Especially as you move > into really serious applications, fewer systems have any display > hardware at all. "FreeBSD Server" > - XFree supports "generic" VGA cards just fine. In addition, there > are perfectly adequate X servers for PC hardware that would let you > use other systems for the bringup. "FreeBSD Workstation" Heh. "FreeBSD CE", anyone? > The *real* problem, as Jordan has pointed out, is that there are far > too many of you willing to crap on at great length about how wonderful > this would be. > > And nobody with the conviction to actually *DO* something about it. Actually, a commercial X server vendor volunteered a free 640x480 X server for FreeBSD to use in this kind of install about a year (maybe more?) ago, and was flatly turned down. Personally, I don't think X is the way to go, unles you can show it as being light weight enough. Have you seen the QNX download? I'd much prefer something like MGR, if graphics must be used (I'm not convinced they are needed; I'm much more likely to say it's an install archtecture, not an install implementation technology, issue). In any case, as I pointed out in my last message of this subject, you can get the same benefits without X -- my Windows 3.1 installer example still stands, I think. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 14:19:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA17694 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:19:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from monk.via.net (monk.via.net [140.174.204.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA17669 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:18:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joe@via.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by monk.via.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) id OAA25411 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:07:58 -0800 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:07:58 -0800 From: Joe McGuckin Message-Id: <199801072207.OAA25411@monk.via.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ACL based file access mechanism for FreeBSD? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Does onyone know of a file level access system using ACL than has been implemented for Unix ? Thanks, Joe From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 14:36:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA19474 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:36:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA18979 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:30:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA01704; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:29:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd001700; Wed Jan 7 14:29:22 1998 Message-ID: <34B4010D.31DFF4F5@whistle.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 14:26:21 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jin Guojun (ITG staff)" CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, pjchilds@imforei.apana.org.au Subject: Re: suggestion on using boot.config References: <199801071632.IAA09184@george.lbl.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Jin Guojun (ITG staff) wrote: > > } In article <199712160444.UAA16864@george.lbl.gov> you wrote: > } > I do not know if this is a good place to address this issue. > } > } > For remote development, I would like to modified "boot.c" to rename > } > "/boot.config" to either "/boot.config.run" or "/boot.config.last" > } > after readfile("boot.config", boot_config, BOOT_CONFIG_SIZE); > } > } Hmm... doesn't "nextboot" do what you want? > } > } (I've only read the man page on it so don't shoot me if it doesn't) > } > } Peter > > Nop. It doesn't matter what I put in the nextboot strings, it just boots > from the default /kernel. According to the man page: > > nextboot -b /dev/rwd0 1:sd(0,a)/kernel.experimental wd(0,a)/kernel.old > > I changed it to : > > nextboot -b /dev/rwd0 1:wd(0,a)/kernel.test wd(0,a)/kernel > > Nothing happenes. > > -Jin well did you 1/ make sure you are not 'dangerously dedicated" 2/ recomopile and install the bootblocks with that option turned on? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 15:06:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA22391 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:06:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA22374 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:05:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA07717; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:05:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:05:32 -0500 (EST) From: Snob Art Genre Reply-To: Snob Art Genre To: Wilko Bulte cc: FreeBSD hackers list Subject: Re: weird natd setup, can use input on how-to In-Reply-To: <199801071823.TAA00718@yedi.iaf.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Wilko Bulte wrote: > I'm as far as getting ping to work from the storage to the sparc20. Okay, so IP is being routed from the 16.198 (production) network to the 192.168.200 (lab) network, and back. > I can also get out from the sparc20 to everywhere on 16.xxx.xxx.xxx > (gatekeeper.dec.com won't let me go further ;-) ) Ok. > What does not want to work is telnet from storage to sparc20. Natd shows > the translations going on (with -v) but the connection times out. Can I see the output of natd? I haven't worked with it. Also, some tcpdump traces would be most helpful. If you run one tcpdump on 192.168.200.1 and another on 16.198.16.101 (the two interfaces of storgate), we can determine exactly what's getting routed and what isn't. > Another problem: since wilkux is not on the same subnet as storgate I have > to give it a default route to the router responsible for the 16.198.208 > network. Huh? Is 16.198 subnetted? You neglected to mention that. ;-) > Of course I want to set a route for 192.168.200.xxx to go thru > storgate. Question: can I get 192.168.200.xxx to be routed at all? It is > a RFC(I forgot) network which is supposed to be non-routed. Let's try and find out. Give the 16.198.208 router a (static) route to the 192.168.200 network. > When I ping to sparc20 from wilkux I end up getting an 'unreachable' from > gatekeeper.dec.com. There's no need for those packets to go all the way to the edge of your network and back. Gatekeeper should never see them. > Apparantly the router handling wilkux default route *does* try to route > the 192.168.200.xxx addresses. This also means the packets never arrive > at storgate. Sounds right to me. > What are the chances of ever getting this to work? I'm not a network expert > so I sure could use some help. Since it looks like storgate is routing those RFC 1918 addresses, there's no reason known to me why this setup shouldn't work. Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 15:23:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA23762 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:23:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA23724 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:22:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA14194; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:22:55 -0800 (PST) To: Capriotti cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X based Free installation In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Jan 1998 12:26:31 -0300." <3.0.32.19980107120754.00943100@pop.mpc.com.br> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 15:22:55 -0800 Message-ID: <14190.884215375@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Unfortunately, I just can't code (in C or c++ at least, which would be the > way to start making something happen) so, many times I may be discussing > things that are not that easy to do. > > But what I'm trying to say is that there are other approaches to the final > user that can be used to make FBSD even better in another way: The final > user approval; That really matters ! We know this already is the problem - your ideas are not new and have been discussed many many times over the last 3 years. Your entire discussion so far could probably be matched almost word for word with ones which has gone before. As Mike as already said, albeit with probably too little diplomacy, the problem lies not in formulating the concept - that's the *easy* part and, as I've said, we've already been over the design picture many times. Where it always bogs down and dies is in getting someone to do the actual work. This is a volunteer project, and we already have more than enough users willing to tell us what they'd like, believe me. We need more users willing to DO what they'd like is the problem. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 15:48:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA25912 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:48:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (d182-89.uoregon.edu [128.223.182.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA25846 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:47:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA02600; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:46:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19980107154653.65316@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:46:53 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make_device_driver.sh References: <83256585.005F0D72.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <83256585.005F0D72.00@papagaio.voga.com.br>; from daniel_sobral@voga.com.br on Wed, Jan 07, 1998 at 02:22:04PM -0300 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk daniel_sobral@voga.com.br scribbled this message on Jan 7: > Ok, I have some partial diffs to make it create a LKM squeleton too. The > main problem is that io base address and irq number must be hardwired into > the lkm's Makefile, and that's not too desirable, is it? Is there any > (easy) way around this? well... not to discourage you from working on examples, but there isn't any way to dynamicly load an isa device driver, but you can do that with pci devices though... soon, when I've completed the bus/device code, then this will be possible, but at the same time, the current LKM system will be replaced with the kld system, so there won't be any "special" handling of dynamicly loaded modules, just special handling of brain-dead not upgraded devices that don't support unloading.. > Another thing... I don't know how to do the same to make_pseudo_driver.sh. > Apart from that, I should submit the PR later today. you don't need to... it is already handled by the PSEUDO_SET that changes definitions depending upon PSEUDO_LKM (see sys/sys/kernel.h and lkm/if_ppp/Makefile)... ttyl.. -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 16:29:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA29364 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:29:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.virginia.edu (mail.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA29342 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:29:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from atf3r@cs.virginia.edu) Received: from mail.cs.virginia.edu by mail.virginia.edu id aa15921; 7 Jan 98 19:29 EST Received: from mamba.cs.Virginia.EDU (mamba-fo.cs.Virginia.EDU [128.143.136.18]) by ares.cs.Virginia.EDU (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01484; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:29:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (atf3r@localhost) by mamba.cs.Virginia.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA00623; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:29:00 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mamba.cs.Virginia.EDU: atf3r owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:29:00 -0500 (EST) From: "Adrian T. Filipi-Martin" Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: Kazutaka YOKOTA cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... In-Reply-To: <199801070947.SAA10164@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote: > > >Before bundling and releasing this (or just plastering it into -current > >8) I'm looking for: > > > > - Testers. Naturally, I need people to find my bugs. 8) > > > > - A better image format. The DIB (.BMP) format is relatively easy to > > work with, but a 320x200x8 image runs the best part of 64k, which is > > slow to load from floppy and wastes valuable core. > > How about GIF? > > Kazu While the being able to mooch off the large BMP archives of splash screens it a laudable goal, I see no reason why we cannot support other formats. If anything at least one compressed format should be supported, .png, .jpeg, or .whatever. This way a compressed image could be more reasonable be packed into the installation floppy with little overhead. Adrian -- adrian@virginia.edu ---->>>>| If I were stranded on a desert island, and System Administrator --->>>| I could only have one OS for my computer, Neurosurgical Visualzation Lab -->>| it would be FreeBSD. Think about it..... http://www.nvl.virginia.edu/ ->| http://www.freebsd.org/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 18:12:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA11266 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:12:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhost.Ipsilon.COM (mailhost.ipsilon.com [205.226.5.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA11248 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:12:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kevin@ipsilon.com) Received: from ipsilon.com (cadserver.Ipsilon.COM [205.226.23.10]) by mailhost.Ipsilon.COM (8.6.11/8.6.10) with ESMTP id RAA01140 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:09:08 -0800 Message-ID: <34B426E5.2C4E108A@ipsilon.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 17:07:49 -0800 From: "Kevin Hayes (brought to you by IRQ5 and DMA channel 3)" Organization: Ipsilon Networks Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: biosboot/start.S needs fix for Intel AL440LX motherboard References: <199709081731.KAA14109@hub.freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Sorry to ressurect this, but I've got good news on this front. I received Intel's latest (12/24/97) beta BIOS for the Atlanta (AL440LX) m/b and it fixes this bug. It will be shipping "soon". K++ -- Kevin Hayes | Software is like a gas: Ipsilon Networks | You can't see it, sometimes (408)-990-2086 | it stinks, and it expands kevin@ipsilon.com | to fill its container. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 18:17:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA12166 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:17:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA12162 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:17:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mrcpu@cdsnet.net) Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by mail.cdsnet.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id SAA27359 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:17:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:17:46 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: How are people handling lots of accounts? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk With 50000 test accounts in master.passwd, it takes something like 10 minutes to rebuild the .db files, completely preventing anybody else from doing anything password related. Is there anything that can be done to speed this up? Changing the password isn't too bad, only about 30 seconds, but adding takes forever. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 18:43:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA14205 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:43:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA14090 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:41:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00394; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 09:46:45 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801072316.JAA00394@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Jin Guojun (ITG staff) cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, pjchilds@imforei.apana.org.au Subject: Re: suggestion on using boot.config In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Jan 1998 08:32:09 -0800." <199801071632.IAA09184@george.lbl.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 09:46:44 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Nop. It doesn't matter what I put in the nextboot strings, it just boots > from the default /kernel. According to the man page: You haven't installed boot blocks with NAMEBLOCK etc. defined. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 18:53:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA14964 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:53:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tokyonet-entrance.astec.co.jp (tokyonet-entrance.astec.co.jp [202.239.16.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA14943 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:53:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junichi@astec.co.jp) Received: from amont.astec.co.jp (amont.astec.co.jp [172.20.10.1]) by tokyonet-entrance.astec.co.jp (8.8.8+2.7Wbeta7/3.6W-astecMX2.3) with ESMTP id KAA27846; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:26:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from stone.astec.co.jp (stone.astec.co.jp [172.20.10.23]) by amont.astec.co.jp (8.7.6/3.6Wbeta5-astecMX2.4) with ESMTP id KAA25380; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:26:28 +0900 (JST) Received: (from junichi@localhost) by stone.astec.co.jp (8.8.5/3.5W-solaris1-1.2) id KAA14810; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:25:59 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199801080125.KAA14810@stone.astec.co.jp> To: mike@smith.net.au cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: New ATAPI LS-120 driver Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 10:25:59 +0900 From: Satoh Junichi Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I updated the ATAPI LS-120 driver for FreeBSD2.2.5-RELEASE and 3.0-971208-SNAP. It supports slices and partitions. It's now available on http://www.jp.freebsd.org/~junichi --- Junichi From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 18:59:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA15705 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:59:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA14949 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:53:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00377; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:15:10 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801080245.NAA00377@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Adrian Filipi-Martin cc: Kazutaka YOKOTA , Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Jan 1998 19:29:00 CDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 13:15:10 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > While the being able to mooch off the large BMP archives of splash > screens it a laudable goal, I see no reason why we cannot support other > formats. If anything at least one compressed format should be supported, > ..png, .jpeg, or .whatever. This way a compressed image could be more > reasonable be packed into the installation floppy with little overhead. It appears to be pretty straightforward to support using a gzipped image, which gives us the best of both worlds. Kzip first though. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 19:04:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA16359 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:04:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA16350 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:04:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xq83x-0006ti-00; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:51:17 -0800 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:51:10 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Terry Lambert cc: capriotti@geocities.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X based Free installation In-Reply-To: <199801072126.OAA08825@usr06.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Don't get stuck in the trap that GUI is better, because. If the > > language is not understandable, it will not become understandable in a > > GUI. > > I like graphical installs because: > > 1) They tend to be procedurally linear. > > Unlike a menu, which you can choose to do out of order, and > maybe forget something or accidently leave it out, when > something is procedurally linear, it forces the person who > is installing to go through the same procedure as all other > people who are doing the install. It seems to have been a design goal to not force an order of operation. Mainly, so that some functions could accessible after install. > 3) They tend to make it so you answer questions only once. > > For a network install, it always pisses me off that I have > to set up my network twice... once for the install, and > again for the post-install. If I give a computer some > information, I damn well expect it to remember it for me, > or I would be using 3x5 cards, not a computer. Huh? Are you refering to FreeBSD? If I enter the network settings for installing FreeBSD over the network, and that's it. > 4) They "fold" installs for the lowest common denominator. > > This may seem like a repeat of #2. It's not. #2 hides > _unnecessary_ complexity. Folding also hides _necessary_ > complexity. This is the difference between the Windows 95 > "Default", "Portable", and "Custom" options. Only in the > "custom" case do you even expose non-default possibilities > for even "non-advanced" settings. You ask the minimum > number of procedurally linear questions to get the user > up and running with the default settings. In other words, > "option + next/back/cancel" for all dialogs, with the > smallest possible number of dialogs. Express vs Custom setup. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 19:12:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA17177 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:12:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA17164 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:12:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xq8C4-0006tu-00; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:59:40 -0800 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:59:34 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Capriotti cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X based Free installation In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980107082705.0094e100@pop.mpc.com.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Capriotti wrote: > > How would a graphically install help? I don't think it would in the > >examples you've given. If the CDROM can't be accessed, why would a > >graphical install indicate why, and a non-graphical install not? Why > >would concepts (info and language) displayed in a graphical dialog box be > >lessing confusing if those concepts where displayed in a non-graphical > >one? > > I was thinking of a way to make Free more attractive for other kind of > users; As I mentioned before, my goal os making FBSD so attractive - and > easy - to install/use that even a secretary could do it. A good first step would be for your CDROM to work with the installer. My point is that any install is meaningless if it doesn't work. > Actualy user buy things that are "neat". A graphical interface would make > things look beautiful. Placebo effect, I know, but it would help "spreading > the word". GUI is doable, you just can't do it during the install. It is chicken and egg problem. You can't get a nice X display, until you've installed an X server for your video card, and lots of support software. ... > >> Today's instasllation (2.2.1) is a bit better, more user friendly, but I > > > > Todays installation? 2.2.1 is ancient. Two releases have been made > >since. > > I was just mentioning that 2.2.1 was the one I was talking about; And, > Installation of 2.1 and 2.2.1 are not that different, so I thought that it > wouldn't have changed that much on newer versions. But I see it did, I am > glad to learn about it. Well, sysinstall _looks_ the same, but it is more difficult to get stuck. IDE CDROMs work better. > But there's something I didn't understand: > > OK. We wouldn't be able to make one single installation disk (floppy) for > FBSD using the X interface. But what if the CD ROM installation ? Can't it > be done ? X is large. It wouldn't fit on single disk. CD ROM would work (have a fully installed X on CD with support for all different video adapters. But what about non-CDROM installs? FTP installs are very popular. > I am not THAT familiar with the processes, so I can't see the difficulty, > but, if you get the kernel up and running, and if you have the files on the > cd, why whould it be so difficult to put X running too ? Non-CDROM installs is the biggy. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 19:22:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA17982 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:22:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA17973 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:22:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xq8La-0006u5-00; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:09:30 -0800 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:09:21 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Terry Lambert cc: Mike Smith , perlsta@sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, capriotti@geocities.com Subject: Re: X based Free installation In-Reply-To: <199801072210.PAA11976@usr06.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > Actually, a commercial X server vendor volunteered a free 640x480 > X server for FreeBSD to use in this kind of install about a year > (maybe more?) ago, and was flatly turned down. Really? I don't recall that. I remember that no one had a graphical install tool, and running sysinstall in a window would be cheesy :). Also, XFree has a generic 640x480 server too. ... > In any case, as I pointed out in my last message of this subject, > you can get the same benefits without X -- my Windows 3.1 installer > example still stands, I think. sysinstall bites, but unless someone rewrites it, not much will change. As far as I know, Jordon has been talking about this for a while... > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > > Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 19:25:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA18361 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:25:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA18296 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:24:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt2-45.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.45]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA10375 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:23:22 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA09484 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:23:20 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199801080323.VAA09484@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: FreeBSD Hackers From: David Kelly Subject: Re: GPS for xntpd Stratum 1 servers In-reply-to: Message from Michael Hancock of "Wed, 07 Jan 1998 14:24:28 +0900." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 21:23:20 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Michael Hancock writes: > > In what situations would you need an external antenna? Would I need one > if the Garmin was put into a room on the 15th floor of a 30 floor building > in the middle of the floor farthest away from all windows? If you are on the 15th floor of a 30 floor building then you are going to have troubles with the GPS in any case. Any view out the window will have less than half the sky visible. Sometimes there may not be enough satelites visible for a lock. *Sometimes* my GPS 12XL will establish a lock inside my wooden house with asphalt shingles. > BTW, the radio geeks at http://www.tapr.org/tapr have a low-cost kit that > looks pretty easy to assemble for use in your home network. Was it the GPS-30PC TAPR bought closout from Garmin? $99, http://www.tapr.org/gps/index.html. *Exactly* the GPS you would want for this task. Bare minimum GPS in a weather tight case with integral antenna. No display. Only has NEMA serial interface. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 19:55:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA22171 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:55:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA22140 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:55:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA03331; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:54:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199801080354.TAA03331@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Terry Lambert cc: dap@damon.com (Damon Anton Permezel), nate@mt.sri.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Motif question In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Jan 1998 21:41:23 GMT." <199801072141.OAA09844@usr06.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 19:54:52 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Heh. My main issue was the infernal "dladdr" that the FreeBSD dynamic > loading code doesn't provide. The 1.1.5 stuff uses it to get the path > of the shared library that's calling it so that it can go up two > directories and down one to find where it left it's classes.zip. 8-(. > Stupid way to do it... > Terry, all you need to do is replace the dladdr kludge with argv[0] 8) Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 21:04:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA00660 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:04:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA00606 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:03:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xq9w7-0006xP-00; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 20:51:19 -0800 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 20:51:11 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Dan Busarow cc: FreeBSD Hacker , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Informix on FreeBSD (maybe) (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Dan Busarow wrote: > On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, FreeBSD Hacker wrote: > > a) I was under the impression that mysql was kind of cheese-ball. At > > least PostGreSQL has some commercial support. > > Have you looked at mysql at all? It's a commercial product that > happens to have a very liberal license allowing free use in most > cases. If you do need to pay the license fees are better than > mSQL's. They also have annual maintenance contracts available. With MySQL vs. PosgreSQL you have to choose your cheesiness. The fact that new versions of MySQL come out every month, and the recommended version is a beta is pretty cheesy. The fact that PosgreSQL requires a vacuum on a regular basis to keep stats up to date, and to purge records, during which queries block is cheesy (although, I just heard that certain long running MySQL querys can block unrelated querys for _minutes_ at a time). The name "MySQL" really has little to do with the chessiness. > Dan > -- > Dan Busarow 714 443 4172 > DPC Systems / Beach.Net dan@dpcsys.com > Dana Point, California 83 09 EF 59 E0 11 89 B4 8D 09 DB FD E1 DD 0C 82 Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 21:07:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA00963 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:07:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomis.simon-shapiro.org (nomis.i-Connect.Net [206.190.143.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA00923 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:07:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@nomis.Simon-Shapiro.ORG) Received: (qmail 6964 invoked by uid 1000); 7 Feb 2036 15:45:01 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-010198 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2036 07:45:00 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Tom Subject: Re: Informix on FreeBSD (maybe) (fwd) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Jim Bryant , FreeBSD Hacker Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On 06-Jan-98 Tom wrote: > > On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, FreeBSD Hacker wrote: > >> Ok guys, first I'll say I've spent the last week trying to get >> PostGreSQL >> to work with windows, unsuccessfully. Second, I think that the bottom >> line is that FreeBSD needs to have its own integrated database system >> based on noone elses technology. This will be a winner, because we all > > Bizzare reasoning. Basically what you are saying, since you couldn't > get PostgreSQL working (and all source is provided), you want to instead > start coding a new RDMS system from scratch? I think that if you can't > figure out PostgreSQL, you won't be figure out how to make a brandnew > database. Bizzare indeed. I'l agree that a DBMS engine written specifically for NT may not be a good choice on a Unix platfrom, and further will agree that writing one that will run on both will be (to use M$ executive's words) ``compile link and limp', but the fact that PostgreSQL does not compile on Windows is a testament to its coding quality. But this is orthogonal to this whole thread. Or is my new baby keping me awake for too long? ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 21:09:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA01163 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:09:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA01142 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:09:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xqA1A-0006xr-00; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 20:56:32 -0800 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 20:56:30 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Chris Coleman cc: Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NYC highschool server... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Chris Coleman wrote: > > First off, is this legal? (I'm doing the setup for free and i'm sure it > > is, but i don't want to jepordize anyone's job here...) > > I hope so, I use it here at a Community College... Hopefuly your High School and Community College are teaching reading skills, so you can be reassured by the file "COPYRIGHT" in the root directory of every FreeBSD system... Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 21:13:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA01607 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:13:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomis.simon-shapiro.org (nomis.i-Connect.Net [206.190.143.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA01600 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:13:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@nomis.Simon-Shapiro.ORG) Received: (qmail 7146 invoked by uid 1000); 7 Feb 2036 06:28:23 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-010198 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2036 22:28:23 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Tom Subject: Re: SFT Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Capriotti Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On 06-Jan-98 Tom wrote: > > On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Capriotti wrote: > >> Does anyone have any news about System Fault Tolerance under Free ? >> >> Like what Novell has, from mirrowed disks to mirrowed servers ? > > Mirrored disks can be done with ccd. > > Mirrored servers are basically what Unix types call a cluster. On > Novell this is easy, because Novell boxes are basically just file > servers, > but a Unix box could be doing many different things. Migrating tasks > from the failed system to the working system, and assumption > of the IP traffic, is difficult. I am working on such a system. Full time. Our solution os a bit different from Novell's. We are aiming at true non-stop, full utilization model (no standby). Simople mirroring is an expensive and non-scalable solution to data persistance, but has very little to do with high availability. To throw a monkey wrench at this discussion, please consider that the most common (by far) cause of system service failure (crashes are severe failure to service, right?) is software bugs. Far behind it lag cables and connectors, yet again far behind these are disks and memory. It is my hunch that DRAM fails as much as hard disks do (per storage unit per time) or even more. This flies in the face of software solutions to high availability. [ Obviously this is exactly one half of the story. You come up with the other half :-) ] ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 21:58:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA06390 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:58:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomis.simon-shapiro.org (nomis.i-Connect.Net [206.190.143.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA06368 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:58:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@nomis.Simon-Shapiro.ORG) Received: (qmail 9628 invoked by uid 1000); 7 Feb 2036 07:13:29 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-010198 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199801072126.OAA08825@usr06.primenet.com> Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2036 23:13:29 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: X based Free installation Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, capriotti@geocities.com, (Tom) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On 07-Jan-98 Terry Lambert wrote: >> How would a graphically install help? I don't think it would in the >> examples you've given. If the CDROM can't be accessed, why would a >> graphical install indicate why, and a non-graphical install not? Why >> would concepts (info and language) displayed in a graphical dialog box >> be >> lessing confusing if those concepts where displayed in a non-graphical >> one? >> >> Don't get stuck in the trap that GUI is better, because. If the >> language is not understandable, it will not become understandable in a >> GUI. > > I like graphical installs because: > > 1) They tend to be procedurally linear. Then write linear character based code. The NOVICE installation of FreeBSD is very linear. I use it for EVERY installation I make. and I have installed FreeBSD more than twice (this week). This still has nothing to do with GUI, and everything to do with matching methdology with intended purpose. i.e. good engineering practice. > Unlike a menu, which you can choose to do out of order, and > maybe forget something or accidently leave it out, when > something is procedurally linear, it forces the person who > is installing to go through the same procedure as all other > people who are doing the install. Last time I checked, Most M$ GUIs are full of menus. Oh, they are Pull-Down menus. So they must not be menus at all. Menus are annoying indeed. BTW, check some old AT&T FMLI applications. Character mode, but not MENU driven. At least the (several large) applications I wrote with this tool. > 2) They tend to hide complexity. Hiding complexity is a decision, not a technology. I can create a hrrendously complex word processor that is all GUI driven, or an exceedingly simple installation procedure that is all character mode. The technology of drawing a symbol on the screen or indicating input has nothing to do with GUI vs. character mode. > Many people call this "dumbing down", which isn't really a > fair call. You can still allow for an "Advanced..." button > to expose additional options. But if you design so that > the "Advanced..." button is not used in the default case, > then you, the designer, have to take into account a lot > of things that you would otherwise force the user to have > to think about. And the user may not be qualified, like > you supposedly are... So? Hide the complexity. Again, FreeBSD Novice installation does an excellent job in bstracting and simplifying. The ONLY ``technical'' area is in disk slicing (fdisk) and partitioning (disklabel). 90% of this mess is EXACTLY due to M$ idiocity in setting up the fdisk partitions. Yet, installing M$ products simply consumes the whole disk. Great! Do the same with FreeBSD. It is doable (Automatic install?). I still prefer to have a unified filesystem and not the archaic and moronic notion of ``drives A: ... Z:. What is the name of the 45th drive? > 3) They tend to make it so you answer questions only once. So is FreeBSD sysinstall. Oh, yes. There is what appears to be a bug, but is really a lousy prompt where one or two selections appear twice. It is not a conceptual difference, just a simple implementation imperfection. > For a network install, it always pisses me off that I have > to set up my network twice... once for the install, and > again for the post-install. If I give a computer some > information, I damn well expect it to remember it for me, > or I would be using 3x5 cards, not a computer. Nonsense. You setup each interface once. Why do it twice? > 4) They "fold" installs for the lowest common denominator. This is an advantage? Again. You are cofusing M$/Intel cartel of Toastering computers with technology. Computers are NOT toasters and thus FreeBSD allows you to actually program this programmable device, rather than treating it as a kitchen appliance. Look at ATM machines. These are Toster'ed computers in character mode. GUI or not, trivializing can be accomplished in many ways. Or, are you referring to the fact that a tiny little (48x48 pixels or less) of SOME printer is superior to the word ``PRINT''? Every time (rarely) I have to sit at a M$ Word sdcreen, staring at the dozens of tiny little fuzzy pictures, I feel more frustrated than if the darn thing would say PRINT TABLE FILE HELP. Humanity (for the most part) abandoned pictographs about 5,000 years ago. The result was a proliferation of writing and knowledge amoung us commoners. > This may seem like a repeat of #2. It's not. #2 hides > _unnecessary_ complexity. Folding also hides _necessary_ > complexity. This is the difference between the Windows 95 > "Default", "Portable", and "Custom" options. Only in the > "custom" case do you even expose non-default possibilities > for even "non-advanced" settings. You ask the minimum > number of procedurally linear questions to get the user > up and running with the default settings. In other words, > "option + next/back/cancel" for all dialogs, with the > smallest possible number of dialogs. > > Now with all this said, it IS possible to make non-graphical installs > that do this. The Windows 3.1 install is a good example. But such > examples do not abound in the real world; they are few and far between. I see the problem. You are confusing implementation and concept. The concepts you describe are (for the most part :-) very sound. Since menus developed after character mode terminals, and ergonomics sometimes after the graphical terminal, you, naturally assocu=iate nasty, obscure, menu driven applications with character mode, and logical, concise applications with GUI. This equation os not nececcerily permanent. > In practice, if you give a programmer the option of doing something > three different ways, then they will make them all work, and you won't > be able to point at any one of them and say with authorit "this is the > one true way". For an end user, this sucks. Lousy programming is lousy. The average person needs at least one week of professional instructions before they are capable of preparing a simple documen in M$ Word. You can achieve this level of proficiency with Lyx in less than an hour. Having said all that let me state that: * I refuse to use EMACS and only will use XEmacs on an X11 terminal. * Will never again write a troff document * Will never, ever write a LaTeX document * Am gladly using LyX to generate LaTeX documents * Will never again use PIC to draw a diagram * Avid user of xfig (the best X11 application ever! :-) * Use only X-Fmail for email and will not use Pine. * Am very comfortable with vi, and even ed for text editing. * Find FreeBSD installation, overall, very comfortble to use. Why? Because GUI interfaces are great at event/user driven applications where you really are trying to describe something abstract and arrange it in a graphical manner. The user is in the driver's seat. For a simple dialogue, where the computer needs to ask certain questions, and the user NEEDS to supply reasonable answer, GUIs have no inherent advantage. The computer is in the driver's seat. Last, but not least. Cost/benefit considerations. Being that FreeBSD is installed once in a blue moon on a system and being that there is no market/financial incentive to make that boring but critical task look pretty, why spend the effort? you will not lure in any died in the wool M4'er. M$ told them that Unix is bad, so Unix is bad. Those that can actually think for themselves will tolerate FreeBSD installation, just to get away from M$ for a while. Now, NetBSD Installation is something I was never capable of completing. I am not that smart. ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 22:23:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA08914 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 22:23:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wakky.dyn.ml.org (lee@ppp-25-233.tidalwave.net [208.220.25.233]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA08559 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 22:18:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lee@wakky.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from lee@localhost) by wakky.dyn.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA00852; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 01:18:00 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from lee) Message-ID: <19980108011800.13651@wakky.dyn.ml.org> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 01:18:00 -0500 From: Lee Cremeans To: "Adrian T. Filipi-Martin" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... Reply-To: lcremean@tidalwave.net References: <199801070947.SAA10164@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: ; from Adrian T. Filipi-Martin on Wed, Jan 07, 1998 at 07:29:00PM -0500 X-OS: FreeBSD 2.2-RELEASE X-Evil: microsoft.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, Jan 07, 1998 at 07:29:00PM -0500, Adrian T. Filipi-Martin wrote: > On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote: [discussing splash image formats] > > How about GIF? > > > > Kazu > > > While the being able to mooch off the large BMP archives of splash > screens it a laudable goal, I see no reason why we cannot support other > formats. If anything at least one compressed format should be supported, > .png, .jpeg, or .whatever. This way a compressed image could be more > reasonable be packed into the installation floppy with little overhead. I've been following this discussion, and I have an idea: gzipped BMPs. I mean, gzip is a format we already use a lot, and it's not too terribly hard to decode (easier than PNG, I would assume)...If I'm missing something, please tell me. -- Lee C. -- Manassas, VA, USA (WakkyMouse on DALnet #watertower) A! JW223 YWD+++^ri P&B++ SL+++^i GDF B&M KK--i MD+++i P++ I++++ Did $++ E5/10/70/3c/73ac/95/96 H2 PonPippi Ay77 M | hcremean (at) vt.edu FreeBSD/Linux/Unix hacker...Win95 and M$ evil! (go see www.freebsd.org) My home page: http://wakky.dyn.ml.org/~lee | finger me for geek code From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 7 22:25:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA09153 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 22:25:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA09134 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 22:25:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199801080625.WAA09134@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA295220715; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:25:15 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: FS interface to sockets? To: ben@nl.euro.net Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:25:15 +1100 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801071832.TAA04945@support.euronet.nl> from "Benjamin Gras" at Jan 7, 98 07:32:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In some mail from Benjamin Gras, sie said: > > Greetings guys, > > to decide whether or not I should finish off a little util I've been > working on, I'd like to ask the following quick question: > > * Is there currently an interface to sockets other than the socket(2) call? Have you checked out portals ? In particular, mount_portal ? Darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 01:07:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA24199 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 01:07:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from snitterly.nanoteq.co.za (snitterly.nanoteq.co.za [196.37.90.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA24179 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 01:06:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pvl@nanoteq.com) Received: from ntqbellbox5.nanoteq.co.za (ntqbellbox5.nanoteq.co.za [196.37.90.52]) by snitterly.nanoteq.co.za (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA20884 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:09:27 GMT Received: by ntqbellbox5.nanoteq.co.za with Microsoft Mail id <01BD1C25.99B3B160@ntqbellbox5.nanoteq.co.za>; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:07:25 -0000 Message-ID: <01BD1C25.99B3B160@ntqbellbox5.nanoteq.co.za> From: "P. van Leeuwen" To: "'hackers@freebsd.org'" Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:07:22 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk unsubscribe pvl@nanoteq.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 01:07:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA24254 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 01:07:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA24236 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 01:07:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.8/CET-v2.2) with SMTP id JAA03511 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 09:06:47 GMT Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 18:06:47 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock Reply-To: Michael Hancock To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: GPS for xntpd Stratum 1 servers In-Reply-To: <199801080323.VAA09484@nospam.hiwaay.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, David Kelly wrote: > If you are on the 15th floor of a 30 floor building then you are going > to have troubles with the GPS in any case. Any view out the window will > have less than half the sky visible. Sometimes there may not be enough > satelites visible for a lock. Yeah, Mike Smith suggested RS-232 <==> Fiber <==> RS-232 to the roof, but unfortunately doing that costs an arm and a leg in this concrete jungle. Er, maybe just a leg these days. We'll just have to settle for having consistent time. Unless, I can find a dialup or radio time source here in Tokyo. > Was it the GPS-30PC TAPR bought closout from Garmin? $99, Don't know, I just came across the site last night. > http://www.tapr.org/gps/index.html. *Exactly* the GPS you would want for > this task. Bare minimum GPS in a weather tight case with integral > antenna. No display. Only has NEMA serial interface. -- michaelh@cet.co.jp http://www.cet.co.jp CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F 2-5-12, Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku, Tokyo 105 Japan Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 01:51:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA27660 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 01:51:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA27653 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 01:51:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA00313; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:15:09 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801080945.UAA00313@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: lcremean@tidalwave.net cc: "Adrian T. Filipi-Martin" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 08 Jan 1998 01:18:00 CDT." <19980108011800.13651@wakky.dyn.ml.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 20:15:08 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > [discussing splash image formats] > > > > How about GIF? > > > > > > Kazu > > > > > > While the being able to mooch off the large BMP archives of splash > > screens it a laudable goal, I see no reason why we cannot support other > > formats. If anything at least one compressed format should be supported, > > .png, .jpeg, or .whatever. This way a compressed image could be more > > reasonable be packed into the installation floppy with little overhead. Nope, you're right on the money. I just got the extras section stuff working with kzip (and it's not even really ugly!), so next up is gzipped BMP. Somebody mentioned that the W95 startup image is 320x400. Anyone have a handy description of this mode? I presume it's one of the ugly paged ones... 8( -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 02:33:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA00368 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 02:33:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from db2server.voga.com.br (db2server.voga.com.br [200.239.39.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA00361 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 02:33:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from daniel_sobral@voga.com.br) From: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br Received: from papagaio.voga.com.br (papagaio.voga.com.br [200.239.39.2]) by db2server.voga.com.br (8.8.3+2.6Wbeta9/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA11766; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 08:33:47 -0200 Received: by papagaio.voga.com.br(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.06 (346.7 3-18-1997)) id 03256586.003F818F ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 08:33:39 -0300 X-Lotus-FromDomain: VOGA To: mike@smith.net.au cc: mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <83256586.003E86D0.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 08:33:32 -0300 Subject: Re: Device Driver Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > This is not necessarily the case. For outbound data, > the call to enqueue the data (at least) will be made > by the sending process. It would not be unreasonable > for the send to block the process until encryption is > completed. > For incoming data, the decryption could be postponed > until the consumer actually reads from the socket, > although as soon as you have a socket in mind you have > access to the proc structure belonging to the socket's > owner. I'm not sure. Most packets will be just routed. > Another alternative would be to create a kernel process > (like the update daemon) which serviced the > encryption/decryption queues. This would give you a > process context on which you could sleep. I'll look into that. > What level are you going to call them from? Network interruptions. It's just that it feels kind of weird splnetting the code even though it's not necessarily network related... > Are you capable of writing queue manipulation code that > can survive interleaved head and tail operations? I intended to use the queue macros, like style(9) advised to. And, yes, I can write that code, but that's still not exactly reentrant, is it? :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 02:37:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA00654 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 02:37:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA00642 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 02:37:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28341; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:38:05 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199801081038.LAA28341@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... In-Reply-To: <199801080945.UAA00313@word.smith.net.au> from Mike Smith at "Jan 8, 98 08:15:08 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:38:05 +0100 (MET) Cc: lcremean@tidalwave.net, atf3r@cs.virginia.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In reply to Mike Smith who wrote: > > Nope, you're right on the money. I just got the extras section stuff > working with kzip (and it's not even really ugly!), so next up is > gzipped BMP. > > Somebody mentioned that the W95 startup image is 320x400. Anyone have > a handy description of this mode? I presume it's one of the ugly paged > ones... 8( Yup, its a modeX'd version of normal 320x200, alas same mem layout as modeX. I can easily put it into syscons (both 320x400 & 320x480)... Should I ?? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 03:06:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA02336 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:06:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from db2server.voga.com.br (db2server.voga.com.br [200.239.39.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA02286 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:04:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from daniel_sobral@voga.com.br) From: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br Received: from papagaio.voga.com.br (papagaio.voga.com.br [200.239.39.2]) by db2server.voga.com.br (8.8.3+2.6Wbeta9/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA11372; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 09:04:35 -0200 Received: by papagaio.voga.com.br(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.06 (346.7 3-18-1997)) id 03256586.0042540A ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 09:04:28 -0300 X-Lotus-FromDomain: VOGA To: gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <83256586.00423625.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 09:04:24 -0300 Subject: Re: make_device_driver.sh Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > well... not to discourage you from working on examples, > but there isn't any way to dynamicly load an isa device > driver, but you can do that with pci devices though... Why is that? -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 03:06:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA02342 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:06:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dirc.bris.ac.uk (dirc.bris.ac.uk [137.222.10.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA02319; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:05:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ts5903@Bristol.ac.uk) Received: from harrier.fen.bris.ac.uk (actually host harrier1.fen.bris.ac.uk) by dirc.bris.ac.uk with SMTP-PRIV (PP) with ESMTP; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:05:29 +0000 Received: from localhost (ts5903@localhost) by harrier.fen.bris.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA06440; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:05:28 GMT Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:05:28 +0000 (GMT) From: TD Southwell X-Sender: ts5903@harrier To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: HACMP? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I was just wondering if anyone knows of some simular software to HACMP which is available for FreeBSD? Ive heard that HACMP manages groups of machines on a network like they are one machine? Any ideas or pointers? Can you please reply by email as I do not normally take this mailing list. Thanks in advance Trefor S. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 03:29:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA03843 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:29:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp4.portal.net.au [202.12.71.104]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA03838; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:29:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA00291; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 21:53:09 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801081123.VAA00291@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), lcremean@tidalwave.net, atf3r@cs.virginia.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 08 Jan 1998 11:38:05 BST." <199801081038.LAA28341@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 21:53:09 +1030 From: Mike Smith Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id DAA03840 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Somebody mentioned that the W95 startup image is 320x400. Anyone have > > a handy description of this mode? I presume it's one of the ugly paged > > ones... 8( > > Yup, its a modeX'd version of normal 320x200, alas same mem layout as > modeX. I can easily put it into syscons (both 320x400 & 320x480)... > Should I ?? If it means we can say "use Windows 95 startup screens", yes please. I could still do with "how to set pixel at x,y with palette entry z" instructions though. There are updated diffs at ftp://ftp.gsoft.com.au/misc; I temporarily moved the splash startup into scattach because bootverbose doesn't seem to be set properly on the first call to scinit(). I'm still not happy with the current splash model; I'm leaning towards the splash being effectively a separate console, rather than being attached to a "normal" console. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 03:58:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA06991 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:58:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA06963; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:58:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA28453; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:59:22 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199801081159.MAA28453@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... In-Reply-To: <199801081123.VAA00291@word.smith.net.au> from Mike Smith at "Jan 8, 98 09:53:09 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:59:22 +0100 (MET) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au, lcremean@tidalwave.net, atf3r@cs.virginia.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In reply to Mike Smith who wrote: > > > Somebody mentioned that the W95 startup image is 320x400. Anyone have > > > a handy description of this mode? I presume it's one of the ugly paged > > > ones... 8( > > > > Yup, its a modeX'd version of normal 320x200, alas same mem layout as > > modeX. I can easily put it into syscons (both 320x400 & 320x480)... > > Should I ?? > > If it means we can say "use Windows 95 startup screens", yes please. > I could still do with "how to set pixel at x,y with palette entry z" > instructions though. Look at libvgl, it has all the functions you need, you just obtain the mem pointer differently (usr vs kernel space). I'll put in the mentioned modes... > There are updated diffs at ftp://ftp.gsoft.com.au/misc; I temporarily > moved the splash startup into scattach because bootverbose doesn't seem > to be set properly on the first call to scinit(). I'm still not happy > with the current splash model; I'm leaning towards the splash being > effectively a separate console, rather than being attached to a "normal" > console. Hmm, I dont see the splash as a console at all, I see it as a function that takes over the physical video HW, sortof like the screensavers, all console bufs etc should be untouched... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 04:34:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA09595 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 04:34:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp4.portal.net.au [202.12.71.104]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA09565; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 04:33:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00451; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:57:43 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801081227.WAA00451@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), lcremean@tidalwave.net, atf3r@cs.virginia.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 08 Jan 1998 12:59:22 BST." <199801081159.MAA28453@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 22:57:42 +1030 From: Mike Smith Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id EAA09572 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Look at libvgl, it has all the functions you need, you just obtain > the mem pointer differently (usr vs kernel space). > I'll put in the mentioned modes... OK, ta. > > to be set properly on the first call to scinit(). I'm still not happy > > with the current splash model; I'm leaning towards the splash being > > effectively a separate console, rather than being attached to a "normal" > > console. > > Hmm, I dont see the splash as a console at all, I see it as a function > that takes over the physical video HW, sortof like the screensavers, > all console bufs etc should be untouched... That's more or less what I meant; it's not something that happens on a console per se, but rather a state apart. I hadn't thought of putting it in the same class as the screensavers though, that's probably a better way altogether. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 05:47:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA16123 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 05:47:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA16113 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 05:47:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Message-Id: <199801081346.IAA01329@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 08:47:42 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: Mike Smith cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Splash screen (splashkit) for 3.0 systems... In-Reply-To: <199801080945.UAA00313@word.smith.net.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > Somebody mentioned that the W95 startup image is 320x400. Anyone have > a handy description of this mode? I presume it's one of the ugly paged > ones... 8( It gets displayed in 640x400 mode on my monitor, so I don't think M$ is doing anything funnier than doubling the height. -- Jamie Bowden Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 06:25:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA18816 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 06:25:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost.zilker.net (jump-x2-1164.jumpnet.com [207.8.67.164]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA18802 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 06:25:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marquard@zilker.net) Received: (from marquard@localhost) by localhost.zilker.net (8.8.8/8.8.3) id IAA07440; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 08:25:36 -0600 (CST) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HACMP? References: From: Dave Marquardt Date: 08 Jan 1998 08:25:32 -0600 In-Reply-To: TD Southwell's message of Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:05:28 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <85wwgb9h5v.fsf@localhost.zilker.net> Lines: 19 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.2.25/XEmacs 19.14 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk TD Southwell writes: > I was just wondering if anyone knows of some simular software to HACMP > which is available for FreeBSD? > > Ive heard that HACMP manages groups of machines on a network like they > are one machine? Well, I'm a little familiar with HACMP, and my impression was that it managed redundant machines and disks for failovers. But there may be other features that I'm not familiar with. > Any ideas or pointers? Well, if you want a description of HACMP, you might check out IBM websites, and also see if you can find websites for CLAM Associates, the folks who wrote HACMP in the first place, and are still quite involved in it, if not doing most of the development work. -Dave From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 07:14:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA22740 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 07:14:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA22733 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 07:14:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id OAA05658; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:46:05 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199801081346.OAA05658@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: improved code to read audio CDs To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:46:04 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Just a brief note -- there is some better code to read audio CDs from ATAPI drives at http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/cdda980108.diffs this code works well with a GCD580 and more or less ok on a Sony CDU311. It still has some problems on the CDU-55E (old model). Note that all these drives do not seem to conform to the ATAPI specs (at least the ones that I have). The patch also includes some patches which probably ought to go into the wcd driver. Any taker ? Cheers Luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 09:35:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA05701 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 09:35:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA05676; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 09:34:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0xqLqv-0002H1-00; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:34:45 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA19855; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:34:42 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199801081734.KAA19855@harmony.village.org> To: Mike Smith Subject: Re: playing with the Linux JDK 1.1.3 under -current Cc: pb@fasterix.freenix.org (Pierre Beyssac), emulation@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Jan 1998 17:00:37 +1030." <199801070630.RAA00809@word.smith.net.au> References: <199801070630.RAA00809@word.smith.net.au> Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 10:34:42 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In message <199801070630.RAA00809@word.smith.net.au> Mike Smith writes: : Seriously, I don't know of anyone else working in this area at the : moment. If/when you have anything that works, *please* let me know and : I'll get it committed. One thing you might want to look at is the OpenBSD hacks in the last month or two in their Linux emulator. There are a fair number of quirks in Linux's implementation of the socket API that they had to do some really gross things. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 10:00:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA07984 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:00:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA07890 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 09:59:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA29243; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:59:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd029178; Thu Jan 8 10:59:04 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA12518; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:58:58 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199801081758.KAA12518@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: X based Free installation To: tom@sdf.com (Tom) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:58:58 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, mike@smith.net.au, perlsta@sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, capriotti@geocities.com In-Reply-To: from "Tom" at Jan 7, 98 07:09:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Actually, a commercial X server vendor volunteered a free 640x480 > > X server for FreeBSD to use in this kind of install about a year > > (maybe more?) ago, and was flatly turned down. > > Really? I don't recall that. I remember that no one had a graphical > install tool, and running sysinstall in a window would be cheesy :). Yes, really. 8-). > Also, XFree has a generic 640x480 server too. But it's large, and works on less hardware than the free 640x480 would have (EGA, Hercules, in addition to VGA). > > In any case, as I pointed out in my last message of this subject, > > you can get the same benefits without X -- my Windows 3.1 installer > > example still stands, I think. > > sysinstall bites, but unless someone rewrites it, not much will change. > As far as I know, Jordon has been talking about this for a while... My point was not that the current install bites; it's that for less work than an X install, you can probably have the benefits that people associate with graphical installs. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 10:14:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA09780 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:14:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (d182-89.uoregon.edu [128.223.182.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA09760 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:14:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA07802; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:12:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19980108101248.08714@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:12:48 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make_device_driver.sh References: <83256586.00423625.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <83256586.00423625.00@papagaio.voga.com.br>; from daniel_sobral@voga.com.br on Thu, Jan 08, 1998 at 09:04:24AM -0300 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk daniel_sobral@voga.com.br scribbled this message on Jan 8: > > > well... not to discourage you from working on examples, > > but there isn't any way to dynamicly load an isa device > > driver, but you can do that with pci devices though... > > Why is that? because the code is missing this functionality... and requires the hard coded configuration obtained from ioconf.c (via config(8))... now you could hard code everything and just access the hardware, but that would just be ugly... also, there isn't a way to access the routine to initally config an isa device (but you can reconfig it).. I'm not sure on the pci side of things but Stefan Esser should know or have an example for it (actually, one of the drivers is suppose to support it)... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 10:16:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA09978 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:16:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA09951 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:16:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA01378; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:16:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd001353; Thu Jan 8 11:16:03 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA15148; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:15:59 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199801081815.LAA15148@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Motif question To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 18:15:59 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, dap@damon.com, nate@mt.sri.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801080354.TAA03331@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Jan 7, 98 07:54:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Heh. My main issue was the infernal "dladdr" that the FreeBSD dynamic > > loading code doesn't provide. The 1.1.5 stuff uses it to get the path > > of the shared library that's calling it so that it can go up two > > directories and down one to find where it left it's classes.zip. 8-(. > > Stupid way to do it... > > Terry, all you need to do is replace the dladdr kludge with argv[0] 8) You mean the path you get back from dladdr, right? The dladdr call is tricky. What it's actually looking for is the path to the shared library, NOT the path to the java program. If you create a program with a dladdr call for the address of a function in libc, you'll actually get back something other than what you expect; the path won't be filled out because the program image is not mapped in by the shared library -- and the name reference will actually reference a stub linked into your program. What you have to do is dlopen the path (ld.so does this), and then access the symbolic name to get the address in the shared image instead of the address of the stub. Then you call dladdr on the address, and it gives you the path to the shared library. This is basically for the JNI code to be able to associate shared libraries with class files; they are assumed to be located in the same relative location in all cases. You can hardcode the path (which the posted patches have always done), but you can't really derive it from argv[ 0]. Also, even if you could, you wouldn't want to, since it would prevent you from making a java image activator for the kernel -- which can't get at the process environment, or we'd have working variant symbolic links by now; another stupidity prevents that: POSIX's assumption of envp in evecve. This is actually related to the discussion at hand, since what you get as argv[0] is what was passed in the execve. Even if you can trust argv[ 0], you can't trust the envp to allow you to do the same path search off the same PATH variable. 8-(. Really, FreeBSD needs to support dladdr. The java stuff is big enough that it should run without modification on FreeBSD to incent use of FreeBSD -- ie: treat it as a validation suite. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 10:21:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA10581 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:21:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA10574 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:20:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0xqMZW-0002I6-00; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:20:50 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA20052; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:20:48 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199801081820.LAA20052@harmony.village.org> To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: X based Free installation Cc: tom@sdf.com (Tom), capriotti@geocities.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Jan 1998 21:26:34 GMT." <199801072126.OAA08825@usr06.primenet.com> References: <199801072126.OAA08825@usr06.primenet.com> Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 11:20:47 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In message <199801072126.OAA08825@usr06.primenet.com> Terry Lambert writes: : Now with all this said, it IS possible to make non-graphical installs : that do this. The Windows 3.1 install is a good example. But such : examples do not abound in the real world; they are few and far between. I think that a sysinstall-tng could be made to do these things. Personally, I'd rather see it come up with just three choices: Novice, Express and Custom. It should then walk you through things for these things. Maybe having an advanced choice as well for all the other cool things that sysintall lets you do now. Maybe I'll get some time to play with this, but not likely. :-(. Too many neat ideas, and not enough time to implement them. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 10:37:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA12636 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:37:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA12624 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:37:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA02418; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:37:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199801081837.KAA02418@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Terry Lambert cc: dap@damon.com, nate@mt.sri.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Motif question In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 08 Jan 1998 18:15:59 GMT." <199801081815.LAA15148@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 10:37:09 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi, I know what dladdr is its just that we don't have an implementation for it. So who is the right person to ask to make sure that dladdr gets implemented? Cheers, Amancio > > > Heh. My main issue was the infernal "dladdr" that the FreeBSD dynamic > > > loading code doesn't provide. The 1.1.5 stuff uses it to get the path > > > of the shared library that's calling it so that it can go up two > > > directories and down one to find where it left it's classes.zip. 8-(. > > > Stupid way to do it... > > > > Terry, all you need to do is replace the dladdr kludge with argv[0] 8) > > You mean the path you get back from dladdr, right? > > The dladdr call is tricky. What it's actually looking for is the > path to the shared library, NOT the path to the java program. If > you create a program with a dladdr call for the address of a > function in libc, you'll actually get back something other than what > you expect; the path won't be filled out because the program image > is not mapped in by the shared library -- and the name reference will > actually reference a stub linked into your program. > > What you have to do is dlopen the path (ld.so does this), and then > access the symbolic name to get the address in the shared image > instead of the address of the stub. Then you call dladdr on the > address, and it gives you the path to the shared library. > > This is basically for the JNI code to be able to associate shared > libraries with class files; they are assumed to be located in the > same relative location in all cases. > > > You can hardcode the path (which the posted patches have always done), > but you can't really derive it from argv[ 0]. > > Also, even if you could, you wouldn't want to, since it would prevent > you from making a java image activator for the kernel -- which can't > get at the process environment, or we'd have working variant symbolic > links by now; another stupidity prevents that: POSIX's assumption of > envp in evecve. This is actually related to the discussion at hand, > since what you get as argv[0] is what was passed in the execve. Even > if you can trust argv[ 0], you can't trust the envp to allow you to > do the same path search off the same PATH variable. 8-(. > > Really, FreeBSD needs to support dladdr. The java stuff is big enough > that it should run without modification on FreeBSD to incent use of > FreeBSD -- ie: treat it as a validation suite. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 10:44:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA13664 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:44:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA13603 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:44:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA08176; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:44:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd008124; Thu Jan 8 11:44:18 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA16648; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:43:53 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199801081843.LAA16648@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Motif question To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 18:43:52 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, dap@damon.com, nate@mt.sri.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801081837.KAA02418@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Jan 8, 98 10:37:09 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Hi, > > I know what dladdr is its just that we don't have an implementation for it. > > So who is the right person to ask to make sure that dladdr gets implemented? I've been trying to talk Doug Ambrisko into it on the theory that he touched ld.so before... 8-). It's also wasn't a good time because of the emacs problems with the new ld.so changes that recently went in. Probably John Polstra? I'm working on a Solaris compatible libelf, which I may have done in a couple of weeks (if I can find the time under a rock somewhere). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 10:47:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA14030 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:47:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from db2server.voga.com.br (db2server.voga.com.br [200.239.39.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA13329 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:42:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from daniel_sobral@voga.com.br) From: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br Received: from papagaio.voga.com.br (papagaio.voga.com.br [200.239.39.2]) by db2server.voga.com.br (8.8.3+2.6Wbeta9/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA11956; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:43:00 -0200 Received: by papagaio.voga.com.br(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.06 (346.7 3-18-1997)) id 03256586.006C4DFB ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:42:58 -0300 X-Lotus-FromDomain: VOGA To: gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <83256586.006BE367.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:42:54 -0300 Subject: Re: make_device_driver.sh Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > because the code is missing this functionality... and requires the > hard coded configuration obtained from ioconf.c (via config(8))... IRQ, base i/o, interrupt vector, etc? I was planning to hard code all that into isa_device structure, through defines on lkm/drivername/Makefile. I'm more interested in providing an easy way to develop drivers (since most people using this script are likely to be beginners at the dd writing stuff) than any production level stuff. Not having to reboot is kind of neat. :-) Is there anything not in isa_device structure being set? > now you could hard code everything and just access the hardware, but > that would just be ugly... also, there isn't a way to access the > routine to initally config an isa device (but you can reconfig it).. What do you mean routine to initially config an isa device? What routine? -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 10:49:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA14363 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:49:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA14345 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:49:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29718; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:49:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd029698; Thu Jan 8 11:49:09 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA16908; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:49:05 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199801081849.LAA16908@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: make_device_driver.sh To: gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 18:49:05 +0000 (GMT) Cc: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980107154653.65316@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> from "John-Mark Gurney" at Jan 7, 98 03:46:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > soon, when I've completed the bus/device code, then this will be possible, > but at the same time, the current LKM system will be replaced with the > kld system, so there won't be any "special" handling of dynamicly loaded > modules, just special handling of brain-dead not upgraded devices that > don't support unloading.. Since this is going to be a big change anyway... Is there any chance I can convince you to do seperate open/close calls for each instance of an open or a close? PHK wanted this last year, but was shouted down because of the impact it would have. If you are about to cause the same magnitude impact in the same area... it seems like a logical time to bring this up again. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 10:52:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA14800 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:52:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA13955 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:46:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (brightmn@ppp-63.ts-9.nyc.idt.net [169.132.99.63]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA23880 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:48:05 GMT Message-Id: <199801081448.OAA23880@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: Subject: port forwarder... Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:44:06 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk i wrote a simple TCP port forwarder that uses select() it wastes quite a bit of CPU polling but what i'm using it for is to do a CVSup for a FreeBSD machine though a windows 95 PC with a modem... basically on the '95 machine: a.exe cvsup.freebsd.org 5999 5999 and for CVSup you run CVSup on the client like so: cvsup -Pm -h windows.machine.suk it compiles under cygwin32... anyone want it with source? it should also compile under freebsd. i just have to set it up to graciously handle broken sockets... right now it just loops... i think i'll fix that and put it up somewhere... -Alfred From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 10:55:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA15211 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:55:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA15179 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:54:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02067; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:54:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd002047; Thu Jan 8 11:54:44 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA17141; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:54:42 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199801081854.LAA17141@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: X based Free installation To: tom@sdf.com (Tom) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 18:54:41 +0000 (GMT) Cc: capriotti@geocities.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Tom" at Jan 7, 98 06:59:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > GUI is doable, you just can't do it during the install. It is chicken > and egg problem. You can't get a nice X display, until you've installed > an X server for your video card, and lots of support software. Don't say "can't" here. Microsoft does it. They use a dumb VGA driver, and install accelerated ones that are card specific later. > X is large. It wouldn't fit on single disk. CD ROM would work (have a > fully installed X on CD with support for all different video adapters. > But what about non-CDROM installs? FTP installs are very popular. You could always make them NFS installs instead of FTP, and have the distribution sites allow anonymous NFS. Many of the big archives allow anonymous NFS already. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 10:56:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA15449 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:56:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA15333; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:55:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pb@fasterix.frmug.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.2/nospam) with UUCP id TAA19209; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:55:35 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from pb@fasterix.frmug.org) Received: (from pb@localhost) by fasterix.frmug.org (8.8.8/8.8.5/pb-19970302) id TAA03410; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:55:21 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19980108195521.OO22099@@> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:55:21 +0100 From: pb@fasterix.freenix.org (Pierre Beyssac) To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), pb@fasterix.freenix.org (Pierre Beyssac), emulation@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: playing with the Linux JDK 1.1.3 under -current References: <199801070630.RAA00809@word.smith.net.au> <199801081734.KAA19855@harmony.village.org> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.59.1e Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199801081734.KAA19855@harmony.village.org>; from Warner Losh on Jan 8, 1998 10:34:42 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Warner Losh writes: > One thing you might want to look at is the OpenBSD hacks in the last > month or two in their Linux emulator. Thanks for the hint, I'll give their code a look and will try to integrate their fixes. I have just sent PRs with patches for 2 fixes (TCP_NODELAY and the non-blocking connect I mentioned), but I haven't had the PR # returned yet. I'll send these to Mike when I get them. > There are a fair number of > quirks in Linux's implementation of the socket API that they had to do > some really gross things. I can't say this surprises me... Compatibility with existing code was apparently the last of their worries, it's so much better to reinvent the wheel as usual. -- Pierre Beyssac pb@fasterix.frmug.org pb@fasterix.freenix.org {Free,Net,Open}BSD, Linux : il y a moins bien, mais c'est plus cher Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 11:35:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA19195 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:35:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (d182-89.uoregon.edu [128.223.182.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA19102 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:34:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA07962; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:34:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19980108113407.02264@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:34:07 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Terry Lambert Cc: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make_device_driver.sh References: <19980107154653.65316@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <199801081849.LAA16908@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199801081849.LAA16908@usr08.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Thu, Jan 08, 1998 at 06:49:05PM +0000 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert scribbled this message on Jan 8: > > soon, when I've completed the bus/device code, then this will be possible, > > but at the same time, the current LKM system will be replaced with the > > kld system, so there won't be any "special" handling of dynamicly loaded > > modules, just special handling of brain-dead not upgraded devices that > > don't support unloading.. > > Since this is going to be a big change anyway... > > > Is there any chance I can convince you to do seperate open/close calls > for each instance of an open or a close? > > PHK wanted this last year, but was shouted down because of the impact > it would have. If you are about to cause the same magnitude impact > in the same area... it seems like a logical time to bring this up again. I personally like that idea too, but the problem is that the changes that I'm making won't effect that part (cdev/bdev structs) of the system.. this only handles how devices are "attached", but the resources they provide (cdev/bdev/tty) are something different... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 11:36:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA19384 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:36:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from db2server.voga.com.br (db2server.voga.com.br [200.239.39.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA19275 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:35:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from daniel_sobral@voga.com.br) From: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br Received: from papagaio.voga.com.br (papagaio.voga.com.br [200.239.39.2]) by db2server.voga.com.br (8.8.3+2.6Wbeta9/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA12368 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:18:52 -0200 Received: by papagaio.voga.com.br(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.06 (346.7 3-18-1997)) id 03256586.006F9618 ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:18:49 -0300 X-Lotus-FromDomain: VOGA To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <83256586.006F7192.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:18:41 -0300 Subject: Re: make_device_driver.sh Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Is there any chance I can convince you to do seperate > open/close calls for each instance of an open or a close? That would be the "reflexive" interface? :-) Now that I have _seen_ how screwed up the thing is, I whole heartedly behind the proposal. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 13:26:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA02511 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:26:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA02472 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:25:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA20319; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:25:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd020281; Thu Jan 8 14:25:18 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA14363; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:25:08 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199801082125.OAA14363@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: X based Free installation To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 21:25:08 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, capriotti@geocities.com, tom@sdf.com In-Reply-To: from "Simon Shapiro" at Feb 6, 36 11:13:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk [ ... ] > Humanity (for the most part) abandoned pictographs about 5,000 years ago. > The result was a proliferation of writing and knowledge amoung us commoners. Clearly, you haven't been to a large urban area lately. ;-). Reading and writing only became commonplace after Gutenburg (no, not Steve) invented the press. The Catholic Church vs. Galileo was mostly the result of him writing Principia Mathematica in Italian instead of Latin -- "us commoners" of the time couldn't read or write Latin, and new ideas needed to be fit into Church doctrine over time so that "us commoners" wouldn't see abrupt changes and thus erode the claim to authority of the Church. 8-). > > Now with all this said, it IS possible to make non-graphical installs > > that do this. The Windows 3.1 install is a good example. But such > > examples do not abound in the real world; they are few and far between. > > I see the problem. You are confusing implementation and concept. The > concepts you describe are (for the most part :-) very sound. > Since menus developed after character mode terminals, > and ergonomics sometimes after the graphical terminal, you, naturally > assocu=iate nasty, obscure, menu driven applications with character mode, > and logical, concise applications with GUI. This equation os not > nececcerily permanent. Uh... that's what I said... that "it IS possible to make non-graphical installs that do this". 8-). > Why? Because GUI interfaces are great at event/user driven applications > where you really are trying to describe something abstract and arrange it > in a graphical manner. The user is in the driver's seat. I think about this differently. I don't think of dialog screens as event based. Sure, the toolkits make you program them that way, but really they are more akin to a dialog equalling an input screen on a block mode terminal. I think the important thing is to seperate the process into blocks of changes seperated by submits. This is what makes "wizards" such a powerful idea under Windows 95. > For a simple dialogue, where the computer needs to ask certain questions, > and the user NEEDS to supply reasonable answer, GUIs have no inherent > advantage. The computer is in the driver's seat. Agreed. The advantage is in the dialog abstraction itself, not in the implementation technology used to implement the abstraction. > Last, but not least. Cost/benefit considerations. Being that FreeBSD is > installed once in a blue moon on a system and being that there is no > market/financial incentive to make that boring but critical task look > pretty, why spend the effort? There is a market advantage. I think the Linux Advocacy has proven several times over that any market advantage should be taken, where it can be. There is advantage to a larger installed base that goes beyond the financial incentives (which free software lacks). The larger number of coders contributing to Linux than FreeBSD is *not* attributable solely to the philosophical and organizational differences between the camps. > you will not lure in any died in the wool M4'er. M$ told them that > Unix is bad, so Unix is bad. Those that can actually think for > themselves will tolerate FreeBSD installation, just to get away from > M$ for a while. I don't believe this. The install is the first impression. If you have a (relatively) bad install, people aren't going to bother with your product. If you aren't obviously as good as Microsoft, then you aren't going to win mindshare from that camp at all. Linux installation is easier. Not because of the software, which is arguably a lot worse than FreeBSD's for some time now, but because of the number of bodies in the camp. Frankly, the Linux camp will send a body over to install your software for you. The only thing that rivals that is OS preinstalls from hardware vendors (Rod Grimes included, of course). > Now, NetBSD Installation is something I was never capable of completing. > I am not that smart. Heh. This is funny because, in order to install FreeBSD in the early days of FreeBSD (1.x era), I had to use the NetBSD/x86 install disk. FreeBSD could not deal correctly with WD 1007 ESDI controllers, and NetBSD could. Once the disklabel was in place, I could install FreeBSD. I guess everyone's mileage varies... 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 13:30:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA02861 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:30:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA02683 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:28:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA10617; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:27:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd010577; Thu Jan 8 14:27:52 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA14634; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:27:45 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199801082127.OAA14634@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: make_device_driver.sh To: gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 21:27:45 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, daniel_sobral@voga.com.br, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980108113407.02264@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> from "John-Mark Gurney" at Jan 8, 98 11:34:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Is there any chance I can convince you to do seperate open/close calls > > for each instance of an open or a close? > > > > PHK wanted this last year, but was shouted down because of the impact > > it would have. If you are about to cause the same magnitude impact > > in the same area... it seems like a logical time to bring this up again. > > I personally like that idea too, but the problem is that the changes > that I'm making won't effect that part (cdev/bdev structs) of the system.. > this only handles how devices are "attached", but the resources they > provide (cdev/bdev/tty) are something different... I was thinking more in the sense that the change is going to dictate that every device driver change to rev it to work with the new code. If there is going to be an acceptable reason to rev all of the device code, then the not-quite acceptable reasons should shoe-horn in... the old "in for a penny, in for a pound" theory. At least contact PHK about it... 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 13:31:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA03046 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:31:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hwcn.org (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA03004 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:30:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by hwcn.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA25919; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:26:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:26:36 -0500 (EST) From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Tom cc: Chris Coleman , Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NYC highschool server... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Tom wrote: > Hopefuly your High School and Community College are teaching reading > skills, so you can be reassured by the file "COPYRIGHT" in the root > directory of every FreeBSD system... Which is somewhat misleading, since it does not cover all of the code distributed with FreeBSD. Specifically, however, it's quite legal to use FreeBSD to run whatever highschool network. -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 13:57:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA05955 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:57:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (d182-89.uoregon.edu [128.223.182.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA05937 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:57:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA08221; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:56:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19980108135656.39664@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:56:56 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make_device_driver.sh References: <83256586.006BE367.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <83256586.006BE367.00@papagaio.voga.com.br>; from daniel_sobral@voga.com.br on Thu, Jan 08, 1998 at 04:42:54PM -0300 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk daniel_sobral@voga.com.br scribbled this message on Jan 8: > > > because the code is missing this functionality... and requires the > > hard coded configuration obtained from ioconf.c (via config(8))... > > IRQ, base i/o, interrupt vector, etc? I was planning to hard code all that > into isa_device structure, through defines on lkm/drivername/Makefile. I'm > more interested in providing an easy way to develop drivers (since most > people using this script are likely to be beginners at the dd writing > stuff) than any production level stuff. Not having to reboot is kind of > neat. :-) Is there anything not in isa_device structure being set? yes... currently the isa bus code is the one that attaches the irq handler to the irq... so you will have to hard code this too... Bruce sent me some code to move the irq handler attach into the device driver, which allows you to get ride of the public devintr that is currently required... I'm about to start work on that too, it's just that right now we have SOOO many device drivers... many of them are not maintained (something like 40 isa device drivers total), it takes a while if you want to start changing thigs... > > now you could hard code everything and just access the hardware, but > > that would just be ugly... also, there isn't a way to access the > > routine to initally config an isa device (but you can reconfig it).. > > What do you mean routine to initially config an isa device? What routine? autocnf.c calls isa_configure which in turn calls config_isadev which calls config_isadev_c which does the work of probing/attaching the device... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 14:00:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA06230 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:00:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (d182-89.uoregon.edu [128.223.182.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA06081 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:59:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA08229; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:58:44 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19980108135843.12118@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:58:43 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Terry Lambert Cc: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make_device_driver.sh References: <19980108113407.02264@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <199801082127.OAA14634@usr06.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199801082127.OAA14634@usr06.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Thu, Jan 08, 1998 at 09:27:45PM +0000 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert scribbled this message on Jan 8: > > > Is there any chance I can convince you to do seperate open/close calls > > > for each instance of an open or a close? > > > > > > PHK wanted this last year, but was shouted down because of the impact > > > it would have. If you are about to cause the same magnitude impact > > > in the same area... it seems like a logical time to bring this up again. > > > > I personally like that idea too, but the problem is that the changes > > that I'm making won't effect that part (cdev/bdev structs) of the system.. > > this only handles how devices are "attached", but the resources they > > provide (cdev/bdev/tty) are something different... > > I was thinking more in the sense that the change is going to dictate > that every device driver change to rev it to work with the new code. > > If there is going to be an acceptable reason to rev all of the device > code, then the not-quite acceptable reasons should shoe-horn in... the > old "in for a penny, in for a pound" theory. yeh... but the only problem is all the extra work that has to go into it (which I will have to do)... plus, the more you change, the more likely it's going to break.. :) > At least contact PHK about it... 8-). will do... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 14:10:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA07335 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:10:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from indigo.ie (p14.waterford1.tinet.ie [159.134.230.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA06762 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:05:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nsmart@indigo.ie) Received: (from nsmart@localhost) by indigo.ie (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA01678 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:08:57 GMT (envelope-from nsmart) Message-Id: <199801082208.WAA01678@indigo.ie> From: nsmart@indigo.ie (Niall Smart) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:08:56 +0000 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 beta(3) 11/17/96) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X based Free installation Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Jan 8, 6:54pm, Terry Lambert wrote: } Subject: Re: X based Free installation > > X is large. It wouldn't fit on single disk. CD ROM would work (have a > > fully installed X on CD with support for all different video adapters. > > But what about non-CDROM installs? FTP installs are very popular. > > You could always make them NFS installs instead of FTP, and have the > distribution sites allow anonymous NFS. Many of the big archives > allow anonymous NFS already. Actually, I was playing around with the idea of an X based install myself not so long ago, and I managed to squeeze an X server into a fairly small amount of space: -rw-r--r-- 1 nsmart nsmart 1964828 Jan 8 21:46 xmin.tar.bz2 This package includes the VGA16 server, xterm, some fonts and some libs, but no keyboard maps. BTW the executables are gzipped. This indicates we would need at most three disks and could probably get away with two. I don't think we really need more than 16 colors for the install, just some creative coloring. Is the download of an extra disk really that much hassle compared to the benefits of being able to provide first time UNIX users with an interface that they have grown used to? Installing *NIX is generally percieved to be a tricky thing, an X based install would go some way towards dispelling that myth. I finish college in June and will have some free time then, if -current isn't released by then I'm interested in persuing this idea. Niall From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 14:45:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA11726 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:45:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iafnl.es.iaf.nl (uucp@iafnl.es.iaf.nl [195.108.17.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA11638 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:45:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA21010 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:45:06 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA03457; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:44:05 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199801082144.WAA03457@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: weird natd setup, can use input on how-to To: benedict@echonyc.com Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:44:05 +0100 (MET) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Snob Art Genre" at Jan 7, 98 06:05:32 pm X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Snob Art Genre wrote... > On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Wilko Bulte wrote: > > > I'm as far as getting ping to work from the storage to the sparc20. > > Okay, so IP is being routed from the 16.198 (production) network to the > 192.168.200 (lab) network, and back. > > > I can also get out from the sparc20 to everywhere on 16.xxx.xxx.xxx > > (gatekeeper.dec.com won't let me go further ;-) ) > > Ok. > > > What does not want to work is telnet from storage to sparc20. Natd shows > > the translations going on (with -v) but the connection times out. > > Can I see the output of natd? I haven't worked with it. Also, some > tcpdump traces would be most helpful. If you run one tcpdump on > 192.168.200.1 and another on 16.198.16.101 (the two interfaces of > storgate), we can determine exactly what's getting routed and what isn't. > > > Another problem: since wilkux is not on the same subnet as storgate I have > > to give it a default route to the router responsible for the 16.198.208 > > network. > > Huh? Is 16.198 subnetted? You neglected to mention that. ;-) Yes it is. 16.* is the Digital network BTW. > > Of course I want to set a route for 192.168.200.xxx to go thru > > storgate. Question: can I get 192.168.200.xxx to be routed at all? It is > > a RFC(I forgot) network which is supposed to be non-routed. > > Let's try and find out. Give the 16.198.208 router a (static) route to > the 192.168.200 network. Hmm, I was afraid of that. I'll have to trick/bribe the network people into doing that. I unfortunately don't control the routers. > > When I ping to sparc20 from wilkux I end up getting an 'unreachable' from > > gatekeeper.dec.com. > > There's no need for those packets to go all the way to the edge of your > network and back. Gatekeeper should never see them. That was also my assumption. > > Apparantly the router handling wilkux default route *does* try to route > > the 192.168.200.xxx addresses. This also means the packets never arrive > > at storgate. > > Sounds right to me. > > > What are the chances of ever getting this to work? I'm not a network expert > > so I sure could use some help. > > Since it looks like storgate is routing those RFC 1918 addresses, there's > no reason known to me why this setup shouldn't work. I'll start talking to our network guys. _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' --------------- Support your local daemons: run [Free,Net,Open]BSD Unix -- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 15:15:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA15134 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:15:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from damon.com (root@damon.com [207.170.114.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA15109 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:15:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dap@damon.com) Received: (from dap@localhost) by damon.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) id RAA20001; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:12:38 -0600 (CST) From: Damon Anton Permezel Message-Id: <199801082312.RAA20001@damon.com> Subject: dladdr hax To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:12:38 -0600 (CST) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, dap@damon.com, nate@mt.sri.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801081837.KAA02418@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Jan 8, 98 10:37:09 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk "Amancio Hasty sez: " > > Hi, > > I know what dladdr is its just that we don't have an implementation for it. > > So who is the right person to ask to make sure that dladdr gets implemented? > > Cheers, > Amancio > I'd do it, but I have no access, *and* I have concerns about having to hack on the kernel to support java. I'd prefer if the JDK worked on "all recent versions", but certain enhancements can be accomodated dynamically. My understanding of it is that it requires the full path be kept by execve(). It can either be stored in the u area, or can be copied into the new address space somewhere, ala argv/envp. This makes it easier for ld.so to know where it is, and then the dladdr hack follows quite easily. If it is kept in the u area, then some mechanism needs to be dreamed up to let ld.so get at it, which I like less. There are probably precedents which should be looked at and possible followed, but that is the hard part. Anyway, I have kluged it by having all the shell script wrappers put it in the environment. The kluge is not guaranteed to work, but my understanding (which I admit might be wrong) was that this was so that "apps" could be written which come with their own big-mess-of-java-gorp, and if one follows some conventions when putting it all together, then the default library path gets set appropriately. Since I have not seen anything which relied on this, and haven't attempted to construct such a beast, perhaps i'm just off in the weeds... Here's the kluge i use: (the first 3 lines are standard java wrapper setup) PRG=`whence $0` >/dev/null 2>&1 J_HOME=`dirname $PRG`/.. progname=`basename $0` export __cmd_path_kluge=$PRG Then I use the __cmd_path_kluge, if set:; if (default_classpath == NULL) { char *ep; /* * there doesn't appear to be a way to get the exec path, so * we add this kluge to the java wrappers. */ if ((ep = getenv("__cmd_path_kluge")) != 0) { jio_snprintf(buf, PATH_MAX, "%s", ep); *(strrchr(buf, '/')) = '\0'; default_classpath = malloc(strlen(buf) * 5 + 100); sprintf(default_classpath, "%s/../../../classes:" "%s/../../classes.zip:" "%s/../../classes.jar:" "%s/../../rt.jar:" "%s/../../i18n.jar", buf, buf, buf, buf, buf); From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 15:30:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA17241 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:30:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from damon.com (root@damon.com [207.170.114.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA17172 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:30:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dap@damon.com) Received: (from dap@localhost) by damon.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) id RAA20128; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:28:54 -0600 (CST) From: Damon Anton Permezel Message-Id: <199801082328.RAA20128@damon.com> Subject: Re: Motif question To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:28:54 -0600 (CST) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, tlambert@primenet.com, dap@damon.com, nate@mt.sri.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801081815.LAA15148@usr08.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Jan 8, 98 06:15:59 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk "Terry Lambert sez: " > > > Heh. My main issue was the infernal "dladdr" that the FreeBSD dynamic > > > loading code doesn't provide. The 1.1.5 stuff uses it to get the path > > > of the shared library that's calling it so that it can go up two > > > directories and down one to find where it left it's classes.zip. 8-(. > > > Stupid way to do it... > > > > Terry, all you need to do is replace the dladdr kludge with argv[0] 8) > > You mean the path you get back from dladdr, right? > > The dladdr call is tricky. What it's actually looking for is the > path to the shared library, NOT the path to the java program. If > you create a program with a dladdr call for the address of a > function in libc, you'll actually get back something other than what > you expect; the path won't be filled out because the program image > is not mapped in by the shared library -- and the name reference will > actually reference a stub linked into your program. In general, this is true, but it also appears that, if the address passed in is within the exec image, it returns the path to the exec image. Thats what I was rambling about. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 15:33:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA17708 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:33:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com ([209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA17053 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:28:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: (from hasty@localhost) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA04229; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:28:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:28:24 -0800 (PST) From: Amancio Hasty Message-Id: <199801082328.PAA04229@rah.star-gate.com> To: dap@damon.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: dladdr hax Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, nate@mt.sri.com, tlambert@primenet.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Well, the exec part is component the other is that dladdr is used to locate where a library was loaded from. Again, for the command path argv[0] clearly tells you where the command got executed from. If I am not mistaken the command execution portion should be also in the U area or some clever location for the ps to be able to display it. My wild guess is that ld.so should keep an internal table of start - end address plus path of library . The dladdr should be a simple exercise to locate the address range where a variable lies in. If we don't want to implement dladdr if the table is accessible to the program we can do the library lookup 8) Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 15:53:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA20044 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:53:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from send1b.yahoomail.com (send1b.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA19974 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:53:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from k0zm0z@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <19980108235246.12395.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com> Received: from [207.155.93.60] by send1b; Thu, 08 Jan 1998 15:52:46 PST Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:52:46 -0800 (PST) From: kozmo killah Subject: Re: System To: SpdrMan@aotto.com Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk which system did you want? ---"Adrian J. Otto" wrote: > > Cosmos, > > Ok, I want to buy. Tell me more details. > > Adrian > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 19:00:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA01161 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:00:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from damon.com (root@damon.com [207.170.114.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA01115 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:00:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dap@damon.com) Received: (from dap@localhost) by damon.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) id TAA20694; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:49:43 -0600 (CST) From: Damon Anton Permezel Message-Id: <199801090149.TAA20694@damon.com> Subject: Re: dladdr hax To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:49:43 -0600 (CST) Cc: dap@damon.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, nate@mt.sri.com, tlambert@primenet.com In-Reply-To: <199801082328.PAA04229@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Jan 8, 98 03:28:24 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk "Amancio Hasty sez: " > Well, the exec part is component the other is that dladdr is used > to locate where a library was loaded from. Again, for the command path > argv[0] clearly tells you where the command got executed from. Nope. argv[0] doesn't. > > If I am not mistaken the command execution portion should be also > in the U area or some clever location for the ps to be able to > display it. I thought it used to be u.u_comm. There is a p_comm now. This doesn't contain the full path. It has space for 16 characters of the last component of the name. ps only uses p_comm if argv[0] has been cleared, or omitted, otherwise, it uses argv[0], which is usually not absolute. One generally doesn't want space for PATHNAMEMAX chars lingering about in the proc[], or the uarea. >From a cursory look at ld.so: ld.so already keeps the path of the shared libraries in an internal table. All we need is the interface defined (dladdr(), you say?) to search the table for the range, and return the som_path. All I need now is some time... =dap From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 19:23:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA03672 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:23:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nighthawk.iti.gov.sg (nighthawk.iti.gov.sg [192.122.131.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA03576 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:21:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joerg@iti.gov.sg) Received: (from mailer@localhost) by nighthawk.iti.gov.sg (8.6.11/8.6.11) id LAA16276 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:30:47 +0800 Received: from mailhub.iti.gov.sg(192.122.132.132) by nighthawk.iti.gov.sg via smap (V1.3) id sma016273; Fri Jan 9 11:30:38 1998 Received: (from joerg@localhost) by iti.gov.sg (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA23087 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:18:37 +0800 (SGT) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:18:37 +0800 (SGT) From: Joerg Micheel Message-Id: <199801090318.LAA23087@iti.gov.sg> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Carryable PC chassis Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi, for project purposes involving PCI-based cards we'd like to assemble a carryable version of a PC. A notebook won't do the job. There are some standard chassis out there with TFT display, keyboard and mouse built-in, but I have no idea of vendors (the Tekelec ATM tester is build into such a thing). Does anyone have ideas/pointers towards manufacturers or resellers of these boxes ? Thanks! Joerg From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 19:52:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA06002 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:52:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomis.simon-shapiro.org (nomis.i-Connect.Net [206.190.143.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA05927 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:51:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@nomis.Simon-Shapiro.ORG) Received: (qmail 2200 invoked by uid 1000); 7 Feb 2036 06:28:34 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-010198 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199801082125.OAA14363@usr06.primenet.com> Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2036 22:28:34 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: X based Free installation Cc: tom@sdf.com, capriotti@geocities.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I largely agree, Terry. I think we both recognize that good structure and sound design are keys to this (and most other) engineering challenge. The real problem with X11 based install is that the thing is so huge, vumbersome and difficult to write for. Something like 8 1/2 would have been more practical to fit on a floppy... BTW, you made a comment about Linux ease of installation. Which Linux? Simon On 08-Jan-98 Terry Lambert wrote: > [ ... ] > >> Humanity (for the most part) abandoned pictographs about 5,000 years >> ago. >> The result was a proliferation of writing and knowledge amoung us >> commoners. > > Clearly, you haven't been to a large urban area lately. ;-). Reading > and writing only became commonplace after Gutenburg (no, not Steve) > invented the press. The Catholic Church vs. Galileo was mostly the > result of him writing Principia Mathematica in Italian instead of > Latin -- "us commoners" of the time couldn't read or write Latin, and > new ideas needed to be fit into Church doctrine over time so that > "us commoners" wouldn't see abrupt changes and thus erode the > claim to authority of the Church. 8-). > > >> > Now with all this said, it IS possible to make non-graphical installs >> > that do this. The Windows 3.1 install is a good example. But such >> > examples do not abound in the real world; they are few and far >> > between. >> >> I see the problem. You are confusing implementation and concept. The >> concepts you describe are (for the most part :-) very sound. >> Since menus developed after character mode terminals, >> and ergonomics sometimes after the graphical terminal, you, naturally >> assocu=iate nasty, obscure, menu driven applications with character >> mode, >> and logical, concise applications with GUI. This equation os not >> nececcerily permanent. > > Uh... that's what I said... that "it IS possible to make non-graphical > installs that do this". 8-). > > >> Why? Because GUI interfaces are great at event/user driven applications >> where you really are trying to describe something abstract and arrange >> it >> in a graphical manner. The user is in the driver's seat. > > I think about this differently. I don't think of dialog screens as > event based. Sure, the toolkits make you program them that way, but > really they are more akin to a dialog equalling an input screen on > a block mode terminal. > > I think the important thing is to seperate the process into blocks > of changes seperated by submits. This is what makes "wizards" such > a powerful idea under Windows 95. > > >> For a simple dialogue, where the computer needs to ask certain >> questions, >> and the user NEEDS to supply reasonable answer, GUIs have no inherent >> advantage. The computer is in the driver's seat. > > Agreed. The advantage is in the dialog abstraction itself, not in the > implementation technology used to implement the abstraction. > > >> Last, but not least. Cost/benefit considerations. Being that FreeBSD >> is >> installed once in a blue moon on a system and being that there is no >> market/financial incentive to make that boring but critical task look >> pretty, why spend the effort? > > There is a market advantage. I think the Linux Advocacy has proven > several times over that any market advantage should be taken, where > it can be. There is advantage to a larger installed base that goes > beyond the financial incentives (which free software lacks). The > larger number of coders contributing to Linux than FreeBSD is *not* > attributable solely to the philosophical and organizational differences > between the camps. > > >> you will not lure in any died in the wool M4'er. M$ told them that >> Unix is bad, so Unix is bad. Those that can actually think for >> themselves will tolerate FreeBSD installation, just to get away from >> M$ for a while. > > I don't believe this. The install is the first impression. If you > have a (relatively) bad install, people aren't going to bother with > your product. If you aren't obviously as good as Microsoft, then > you aren't going to win mindshare from that camp at all. > > Linux installation is easier. Not because of the software, which is > arguably a lot worse than FreeBSD's for some time now, but because > of the number of bodies in the camp. Frankly, the Linux camp will > send a body over to install your software for you. The only thing that > rivals that is OS preinstalls from hardware vendors (Rod Grimes > included, of course). > > >> Now, NetBSD Installation is something I was never capable of completing. >> I am not that smart. > > Heh. This is funny because, in order to install FreeBSD in the early > days of FreeBSD (1.x era), I had to use the NetBSD/x86 install disk. > FreeBSD could not deal correctly with WD 1007 ESDI controllers, and > NetBSD could. Once the disklabel was in place, I could install FreeBSD. > > I guess everyone's mileage varies... 8-). > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 20:13:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA07654 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:13:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA07634 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:12:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA01144; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 21:41:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 21:41:04 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@localhost To: Terry Lambert cc: Tom , capriotti@geocities.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X based Free installation In-Reply-To: <199801081854.LAA17141@usr08.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > > GUI is doable, you just can't do it during the install. It is chicken > > and egg problem. You can't get a nice X display, until you've installed > > an X server for your video card, and lots of support software. > > Don't say "can't" here. Microsoft does it. They use a dumb VGA driver, > and install accelerated ones that are card specific later. > > > X is large. It wouldn't fit on single disk. CD ROM would work (have a > > fully installed X on CD with support for all different video adapters. > > But what about non-CDROM installs? FTP installs are very popular. It's really only a question of size. I clearly remember, a long time back, that XiG offered, completely free of charge, to let FreeBSD have a VGA 640X400 only server, ready to go, for installs. Such a thing doesn't need to know your video card, so it's only a question of size. > > You could always make them NFS installs instead of FTP, and have the > distribution sites allow anonymous NFS. Many of the big archives > allow anonymous NFS already. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 20:17:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA08000 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:17:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA07988 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:17:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt2-57.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.57]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA05128 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:05:31 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA13302 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 21:40:48 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199801090340.VAA13302@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: FreeBSD Hackers From: David Kelly Subject: Re: GPS for xntpd Stratum 1 servers In-reply-to: Message from Michael Hancock of "Thu, 08 Jan 1998 18:06:47 +0900." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 21:40:48 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, David Kelly wrote: > > > If you are on the 15th floor of a 30 floor building then you are going > > to have troubles with the GPS in any case. Any view out the window will > > have less than half the sky visible. Sometimes there may not be enough > > satelites visible for a lock. > > Yeah, Mike Smith suggested RS-232 <==> Fiber <==> RS-232 to the roof, but > unfortunately doing that costs an arm and a leg in this concrete jungle. > Er, maybe just a leg these days. So whatcha do is take that old 386sx16 and put it on ethernet, up on the roof with the GPS, and let it be the timeserver. > > Was it the GPS-30PC TAPR bought closout from Garmin? $99, > > Don't know, I just came across the site last night. I've been a member of TAPR since 198[45], can't remember, but I do know I'm member #2111. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 20:49:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA10576 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:49:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nighthawk.iti.gov.sg (nighthawk.iti.gov.sg [192.122.131.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA10558 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:49:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joerg@iti.gov.sg) Received: (from mailer@localhost) by nighthawk.iti.gov.sg (8.6.11/8.6.11) id MAA17611 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:58:35 +0800 Received: from mailhub.iti.gov.sg(192.122.132.132) by nighthawk.iti.gov.sg via smap (V1.3) id sma017609; Fri Jan 9 12:58:25 1998 Received: (from joerg@localhost) by iti.gov.sg (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA26798 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:46:22 +0800 (SGT) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:46:22 +0800 (SGT) From: Joerg Micheel Message-Id: <199801090446.MAA26798@iti.gov.sg> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Carryable PC chassis Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi, [sorry, hackers, for invading your mailbox, really belongs to -questions] for project purposes involving PCI-based cards we'd like to assemble a carryable version of a PC. A notebook won't do the job. There are some standard chassis out there with TFT display, keyboard and mouse built-in, but I have no idea of vendors (the Tekelec ATM tester is build into such a thing). Does anyone have ideas/pointers towards manufacturers or resellers of these boxes ? Thanks! Joerg From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 21:14:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA12567 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 21:14:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nighthawk.iti.gov.sg (nighthawk.iti.gov.sg [192.122.131.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA12275 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 21:09:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joerg@iti.gov.sg) Received: (from mailer@localhost) by nighthawk.iti.gov.sg (8.6.11/8.6.11) id NAA17891 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:18:39 +0800 Received: from mailhub.iti.gov.sg(192.122.132.132) by nighthawk.iti.gov.sg via smap (V1.3) id sma017888; Fri Jan 9 13:18:28 1998 Received: (from joerg@localhost) by iti.gov.sg (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA27675 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:06:26 +0800 (SGT) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:06:26 +0800 (SGT) From: Joerg Micheel Message-Id: <199801090506.NAA27675@iti.gov.sg> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Carryable PC chassis Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 21:28:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA13568 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 21:28:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA13550 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 21:28:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tim@shell.futuresouth.com) Received: (from tim@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA24539; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:25:35 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980108232535.39313@futuresouth.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:25:35 -0600 From: Tim Tsai To: David Kelly Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: GPS for xntpd Stratum 1 servers References: <199801090340.VAA13302@nospam.hiwaay.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <199801090340.VAA13302@nospam.hiwaay.net>; from David Kelly on Thu, Jan 08, 1998 at 09:40:48PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, David Kelly wrote: > > > If you are on the 15th floor of a 30 floor building then you are going > > > to have troubles with the GPS in any case. Any view out the window will > > > have less than half the sky visible. Sometimes there may not be enough > > > satelites visible for a lock. > > > > Yeah, Mike Smith suggested RS-232 <==> Fiber <==> RS-232 to the roof, but > > unfortunately doing that costs an arm and a leg in this concrete jungle. > > Er, maybe just a leg these days. You only need three satellites to get a 2D position. I believe 1 satellite in view is all that is necessary to get the time. That is very practical nowadays [in Mississippi we easily get 8-10 satellites in clear view] even if you only have a clear view of the sky on one side of the building. If you can extend a small pole (say 3 feet) out the window then it would be more than enough. I've stuck GPS antenna mounted on a broom stick out of hotel windows enough times to know this works. :-) > So whatcha do is take that old 386sx16 and put it on ethernet, up on the > roof with the GPS, and let it be the timeserver. It'd be easier to use a couple of RS232<->RS422/RS485 converters. At the typical GPS baud rate (4800/9600 baud) you should be able to run the wire hundreds of meters if not more (RS422 spec escapes me at the moment). The converters run for about $30-$100 a piece. Tim From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 22:46:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA21270 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:46:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com [206.14.52.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA21262 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:46:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jas@flyingfox.com) Received: (from jas@localhost) by biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA18218; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:47:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:47:38 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Shankland Message-Id: <199801090647.WAA18218@biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, joerg@iti.gov.sg Subject: Re: Carryable PC chassis Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Cytec has these: http://www.cytecsys.com. Disclaimer: I just saw them in the catalog, I've never ordered from them. Jim Shankland Flying Fox Computer Systems, Inc. > From: Joerg Micheel > To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Carryable PC chassis > > for project purposes involving PCI-based cards we'd like to > assemble a carryable version of a PC. A notebook won't do the job. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 22:54:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA21706 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:54:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wcc.wcc.net (wcc.wcc.net [208.6.232.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA21681 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:54:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from piquan@wcc.wcc.net) Received: from detlev.UUCP (ppp84.wcc.net [208.6.232.84]) by wcc.wcc.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA12478; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:51:03 -0600 (CST) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.8.8/8.8.7) id AAA15353; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:54:13 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:54:13 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199801090654.AAA15353@detlev.UUCP> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Adding process ID listing to netstat From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Would it be useful to others to allow netstat to give the process ID's that are using sockets? To give the basic idea, I have this implemented with the inet domain sockets. A patch to -current netstat is enclosed. To use it, just run netstat -P (or netstat -Pfinet or whatever you like). If it seems useful, I'll extend this to work on other domains' sockets, document it, and submit it for inclusion in -current. DISCLAIMER: I don't know anything about sockets and their internals. This means I could very well be referencing stray pointers under all sorts of bizarre conditions. This patch has been tested in at least two cases, on the same computer, within five minutes of each other. Best, joelh -------- cut here -------- *** inet.c.orig Fri Jan 9 00:07:37 1998 --- inet.c Fri Jan 9 00:37:11 1998 *************** *** 131,137 **** putchar('\n'); if (Aflag) printf("%-8.8s ", "PCB"); ! printf(Aflag ? "%-5.5s %-6.6s %-6.6s %-18.18s %-18.18s %s\n" : "%-5.5s %-6.6s %-6.6s %-22.22s %-22.22s %s\n", "Proto", "Recv-Q", "Send-Q", --- 131,139 ---- putchar('\n'); if (Aflag) printf("%-8.8s ", "PCB"); ! if (Pflag) ! printf("%5.5s ", "pid"); ! printf((Aflag || Pflag) ? "%-5.5s %-6.6s %-6.6s %-18.18s %-18.18s %s\n" : "%-5.5s %-6.6s %-6.6s %-22.22s %-22.22s %s\n", "Proto", "Recv-Q", "Send-Q", *************** *** 143,148 **** --- 145,152 ---- printf("%8x ", (int)inpcb.inp_ppcb); else printf("%8x ", (int)next); + if (Pflag) + printf("%5d ", sockb.so_rcv.sb_sel.si_pid); printf("%-5.5s %6ld %6ld ", name, sockb.so_rcv.sb_cc, sockb.so_snd.sb_cc); if (nflag) { *************** *** 481,487 **** char line[80], *cp; int width; ! sprintf(line, "%.*s.", (Aflag && !numeric) ? 12 : 16, inetname(in)); cp = index(line, '\0'); if (!numeric && port) sp = getservbyport((int)port, proto); --- 485,492 ---- char line[80], *cp; int width; ! sprintf(line, "%.*s.", ((Pflag || Aflag) && !numeric) ? 12 : 16, ! inetname(in)); cp = index(line, '\0'); if (!numeric && port) sp = getservbyport((int)port, proto); *************** *** 489,495 **** sprintf(cp, "%.15s", sp ? sp->s_name : "*"); else sprintf(cp, "%d", ntohs((u_short)port)); ! width = Aflag ? 18 : 22; printf(" %-*.*s", width, width, line); } --- 494,500 ---- sprintf(cp, "%.15s", sp ? sp->s_name : "*"); else sprintf(cp, "%d", ntohs((u_short)port)); ! width = (Pflag || Aflag) ? 18 : 22; printf(" %-*.*s", width, width, line); } *** main.c.orig Fri Jan 9 00:07:36 1998 --- main.c Fri Jan 9 00:30:14 1998 *************** *** 243,249 **** af = AF_UNSPEC; ! while ((ch = getopt(argc, argv, "Aabdf:ghI:iM:mN:np:rstuw:")) != -1) switch(ch) { case 'A': Aflag = 1; --- 243,249 ---- af = AF_UNSPEC; ! while ((ch = getopt(argc, argv, "Aabdf:ghI:iM:mN:nPp:rstuw:")) != -1) switch(ch) { case 'A': Aflag = 1; *************** *** 305,310 **** --- 305,313 ---- break; case 'n': nflag = 1; + break; + case 'P': + Pflag = 1; break; case 'p': if ((tp = name2protox(optarg)) == NULL) { *** netstat.h.orig Fri Jan 9 00:07:35 1998 --- netstat.h Fri Jan 9 00:24:40 1998 *************** *** 43,48 **** --- 43,49 ---- int iflag; /* show interfaces */ int mflag; /* show memory stats */ int nflag; /* show addresses numerically */ + int Pflag; /* show sockets' pid */ int pflag; /* show given protocol */ int rflag; /* show routing tables (or routing stats) */ int sflag; /* show protocol statistics */ -------- cut here -------- -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 23:00:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA22292 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:00:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA22207 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:00:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA28347; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:29:28 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id RAA06082; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:29:28 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980109172927.06125@lemis.com> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:29:27 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Tim Tsai Cc: David Kelly , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: GPS for xntpd Stratum 1 servers References: <199801090340.VAA13302@nospam.hiwaay.net> <19980108232535.39313@futuresouth.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <19980108232535.39313@futuresouth.com>; from Tim Tsai on Thu, Jan 08, 1998 at 11:25:35PM -0600 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Thu, Jan 08, 1998 at 11:25:35PM -0600, Tim Tsai wrote: >>> On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, David Kelly wrote: >>>> If you are on the 15th floor of a 30 floor building then you are going >>>> to have troubles with the GPS in any case. Any view out the window will >>>> have less than half the sky visible. Sometimes there may not be enough >>>> satelites visible for a lock. >>> >>> Yeah, Mike Smith suggested RS-232 <==> Fiber <==> RS-232 to the roof, but >>> unfortunately doing that costs an arm and a leg in this concrete jungle. >>> Er, maybe just a leg these days. > > You only need three satellites to get a 2D position. I believe 1 > satellite in view is all that is necessary to get the time. That is very > practical nowadays [in Mississippi we easily get 8-10 satellites in clear > view] even if you only have a clear view of the sky on one side of the > building. Recall that there are only 24 active satellites, 12 above the horizon and 12 below the horizon. If you block out half the sky, the most you can hope for is 6. But that's enough, and I've had plenty of success with a GPS receiver mounted just inside a window. >> So whatcha do is take that old 386sx16 and put it on ethernet, up on the >> roof with the GPS, and let it be the timeserver. > > It'd be easier to use a couple of RS232<->RS422/RS485 converters. At > the typical GPS baud rate (4800/9600 baud) you should be able to run the > wire hundreds of meters if not more (RS422 spec escapes me at the moment). > The converters run for about $30-$100 a piece. What sort of time accuracy are you hoping for here? To transmit a short datagram (say, 16 bytes) at 9.6 kb/s will take you 16 ms. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 23:01:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA22430 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:01:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hermes.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de (hermes.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de [129.70.4.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA22357; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:01:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lkoeller@HRZ.Uni-Bielefeld.DE) Received: from pollux.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de by hermes.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de with ESMTP (1.37.109.17/16.2) id AA030979443; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:04:05 +0100 Received: by pollux.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de with SMTP (1.40.112.12/16.2) id AA299089244; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:00:44 +0100 Message-Id: <199801090700.AA299089244@pollux.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0delta 6/3/97 From: Lars Koeller To: freebsd-announce%freefall.FreeBSD.org.freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: ANNOUNCE: Fastvid module available! X-Face: nLQGe[[K51[{{[C\,BiQm[7]u1m{N>_\%nLBo4t@)CoZ}hK[W7DwX&V=}Wf#Qb,j:Jpj[(12r=b~:dYmh]fDf\,]_frt6eM Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA23079 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:08:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA23040 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:07:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tim@shell.futuresouth.com) Received: (from tim@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA26882; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 01:07:37 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980109010737.63918@futuresouth.com> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 01:07:37 -0600 From: Tim Tsai To: Greg Lehey Cc: David Kelly , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: GPS for xntpd Stratum 1 servers References: <199801090340.VAA13302@nospam.hiwaay.net> <19980108232535.39313@futuresouth.com> <19980109172927.06125@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <19980109172927.06125@lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Fri, Jan 09, 1998 at 05:29:27PM +1030 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Fri, Jan 09, 1998 at 05:29:27PM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > > You only need three satellites to get a 2D position. I believe 1 > > satellite in view is all that is necessary to get the time. That is very > > practical nowadays [in Mississippi we easily get 8-10 satellites in clear > > view] even if you only have a clear view of the sky on one side of the > > building. > > Recall that there are only 24 active satellites, 12 above the horizon > and 12 below the horizon. If you block out half the sky, the most you > can hope for is 6. But that's enough, and I've had plenty of success > with a GPS receiver mounted just inside a window. Right, I didn't mean 8-10 satellites from one side of the building, merely that with a full view of the sky we can easily get 8-10 here. > > It'd be easier to use a couple of RS232<->RS422/RS485 converters. At > > the typical GPS baud rate (4800/9600 baud) you should be able to run the > > wire hundreds of meters if not more (RS422 spec escapes me at the moment). > > The converters run for about $30-$100 a piece. > > What sort of time accuracy are you hoping for here? To transmit a > short datagram (say, 16 bytes) at 9.6 kb/s will take you 16 ms. Since I am no expert on NTP I will refrain from further comments on that. I kinda doubt the accuracy is dependent on the transmission latency though (I'd think that a long but deterministic transmission time is better than short but unpredictable transmission time), but what do I know. Also, dependable transmission time over RS232 would be better than unpredictable ethernet transmission time in this application, no? Tim From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jan 8 23:12:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA23526 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:12:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA23518 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:12:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA28361; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:41:51 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id RAA06128; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:41:50 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980109174150.03353@lemis.com> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:41:50 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Tim Tsai Cc: David Kelly , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: GPS for xntpd Stratum 1 servers References: <199801090340.VAA13302@nospam.hiwaay.net> <19980108232535.39313@futuresouth.com> <19980109172927.06125@lemis.com> <19980109010737.63918@futuresouth.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <19980109010737.63918@futuresouth.com>; from Tim Tsai on Fri, Jan 09, 1998 at 01:07:37AM -0600 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Fri, Jan 09, 1998 at 01:07:37AM -0600, Tim Tsai wrote: > On Fri, Jan 09, 1998 at 05:29:27PM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >>> You only need three satellites to get a 2D position. I believe 1 >>> satellite in view is all that is necessary to get the time. That is very >>> practical nowadays [in Mississippi we easily get 8-10 satellites in clear >>> view] even if you only have a clear view of the sky on one side of the >>> building. >> >> Recall that there are only 24 active satellites, 12 above the horizon >> and 12 below the horizon. If you block out half the sky, the most you >> can hope for is 6. But that's enough, and I've had plenty of success >> with a GPS receiver mounted just inside a window. > > Right, I didn't mean 8-10 satellites from one side of the building, > merely that with a full view of the sky we can easily get 8-10 here. Sorry, I mistunderstood. Yes, now we're in agreement. >>> It'd be easier to use a couple of RS232<->RS422/RS485 converters. At >>> the typical GPS baud rate (4800/9600 baud) you should be able to run the >>> wire hundreds of meters if not more (RS422 spec escapes me at the moment). >>> The converters run for about $30-$100 a piece. >> >> What sort of time accuracy are you hoping for here? To transmit a >> short datagram (say, 16 bytes) at 9.6 kb/s will take you 16 ms. > > Since I am no expert on NTP I will refrain from further comments on > that. Oops. Yes, you were talking about NTP, I'd forgotten that. Yes, I don't know the requirements off the top of my head either. > I kinda doubt the accuracy is dependent on the transmission latency > though (I'd think that a long but deterministic transmission time is > better than short but unpredictable transmission time), but what do > I know. I don't know how NTP can know the latency, and that's the limit of your accuracy. I suppose you could tell it. > Also, dependable transmission time over RS232 would be better than > unpredictable ethernet transmission time in this application, no? I think NTP does quite well with jitter, which is what we're talking about here. I don't know many machines which take 16 ms to deliver a local datagram (some Tandem systems are a notable exception). Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 01:17:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA01136 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 01:17:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from firewall.ftf.dk (root@mail.ftf.dk [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA01128 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 01:17:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk) Received: from mail.prosa.dk ([192.168.100.2]) by firewall.ftf.dk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA27412; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:59:11 +0100 Received: from deepo.prosa.dk (deepo.prosa.dk [192.168.100.10]) by mail.prosa.dk (8.8.5/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA06736; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:48:14 +0100 (CET) Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by deepo.prosa.dk (8.8.7/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) id KAA06616; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:15:50 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19980109101550.48723@deepo.prosa.dk> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:15:50 +0100 From: Philippe Regnauld To: Joe McGuckin Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ACL based file access mechanism for FreeBSD? References: <199801072207.OAA25411@monk.via.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <199801072207.OAA25411@monk.via.net>; from Joe McGuckin on Wed, Jan 07, 1998 at 02:07:58PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Joe McGuckin writes: > > Does onyone know of a file level access system using ACL than has been > implemented for Unix ? ext2fs (not the version we have) has just had ACLs integrated. I tried convincing the author to look at the FreeBSD port, but no luck so far :-) -- -[ Philippe Regnauld / sysadmin / regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk / +55.4N +11.3E ]- "Pluto placed his bad dog at the entrance of Hades to keep the dead IN and the living OUT! The archetypical corporate firewall?" - S. Kelly Bootle, about Cerberus ["MYTHOLOGY", in Marutukku distrib] - From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 02:34:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA06237 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 02:34:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from db2server.voga.com.br (db2server.voga.com.br [200.239.39.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA06186 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 02:34:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from daniel_sobral@voga.com.br) From: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br Received: from papagaio.voga.com.br (papagaio.voga.com.br [200.239.39.2]) by db2server.voga.com.br (8.8.3+2.6Wbeta9/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA11836; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:35:01 -0200 Received: by papagaio.voga.com.br(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.06 (346.7 3-18-1997)) id 03256587.003FA0A1 ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:34:58 -0300 X-Lotus-FromDomain: VOGA To: gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <83256587.003F5AF8.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:34:55 -0300 Subject: Re: make_device_driver.sh Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I'm about to start work on that too, it's just that right now we have > SOOO many device drivers... many of them are not maintained (something > like 40 isa device drivers total), it takes a while if you want to > start changing thigs... As far as straight-forward hard work is concerned, I'm willing to help on these changes. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 02:58:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA09922 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 02:58:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sensi.pu.ru (sensi.pu.ru [194.58.105.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA09881 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 02:58:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vadik@sensi.pu.ru) Received: (from vadik@localhost) by sensi.pu.ru (8.8.8/8.7.3) id NAA22004; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:55:25 +0300 (MSK) Message-ID: <19980109135524.42770@sensi.org> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:55:24 +0300 From: vadik likholetov To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FAS408 support Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e X-NCC-RegID: ru.hqlgu Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I've got trouble running PCMCIA FAS408 Qlogic SCSI card, manufactured by Panasonic( KME KLC0003) as an interface card for CDROM KXL-783A. I'm also using PAO (version of 971211, latest AFAIK :-)) Theoretically the ncv? driver has to support this card, but it doesn't -- my tries to debug it shows that probe() fails. Also, there is too much magic and ugly coding style because of netbsd porting. So I'm looking for programming info for this card. Unfortunately, guys at qlogic keep silent. -- vadik likholetov From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 03:03:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA10236 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 03:03:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from itesec.hsc.fr (root@itesec.hsc.fr [192.70.106.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA10205 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 03:02:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pb@hsc.fr) Received: from mars.hsc.fr (pb@mars.hsc.fr [192.70.106.44]) by itesec.hsc.fr (8.8.8/8.8.5/itesec-1.10-nospam) with ESMTP id MAA19323; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:02:17 +0100 (MET) Received: (from pb@localhost) by mars.hsc.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5/pb-19970301) id MAA04872; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:02:16 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980109120216.HY47406@mars.hsc.fr> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:02:16 +0100 From: Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr (Pierre Beyssac) To: regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk (Philippe Regnauld) Cc: joe@via.net (Joe McGuckin), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ACL based file access mechanism for FreeBSD? References: <199801072207.OAA25411@monk.via.net> <19980109101550.48723@deepo.prosa.dk> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.59.1e Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <19980109101550.48723@deepo.prosa.dk>; from Philippe Regnauld on Jan 9, 1998 10:15:50 +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk According to Philippe Regnauld: > ext2fs (not the version we have) has just had ACLs integrated. > I tried convincing the author to look at the FreeBSD port, but > no luck so far :-) AFAIK, the ext2fs is not based on Rémy's code. I believe it's a ffs rewritten with the ext2fs structures. From the original ext2fs code, it apparently only uses the .h files and a few C routines. That's probably why Rémy has no intention to be involved in this :-) -- Pierre.Beyssac@hsc.fr From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 04:47:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA15863 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 04:47:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp3.portal.net.au [202.12.71.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA15849 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 04:47:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA00419; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:09:17 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801091239.XAA00419@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br cc: mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Device Driver In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 08 Jan 1998 08:33:32 -0300." <83256586.003E86D0.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 23:09:17 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > This is not necessarily the case. For outbound data, > > the call to enqueue the data (at least) will be made > > by the sending process. It would not be unreasonable > > for the send to block the process until encryption is > > completed. > > > For incoming data, the decryption could be postponed > > until the consumer actually reads from the socket, > > although as soon as you have a socket in mind you have > > access to the proc structure belonging to the socket's > > owner. > > I'm not sure. Most packets will be just routed. Ah! You are building an encrypting *router*. Everything becomes much much much more complicated. You have to maintain state for *all* of the connections whose datagrams you are routing. This is respectably nontrivial. For a framework that you might want to look at wrt. getting datagrams to a point where you can process them look at the 'natd' port's mode of operation. With this, you can just us a fairly normal character device driver interface for your encrypting card, but you will have to live with four kernel boundary crossings for routed packets. > > What level are you going to call them from? > > Network interruptions. It's just that it feels kind of weird splnetting the > code even though it's not necessarily network related... Don't; splnet the code that *calls* it. I have to be honest; it really sounds like you have embarked on a product without actually *designing* the damn thing first. I normally charge lots of money to be part of this sort of process. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 04:51:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA16314 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 04:51:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA16296 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 04:51:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Dirk.vanGulik@jrc.it) Received: from elec.isei.jrc.it (elec.jrc.it) by mrelay.jrc.it (4.1/EB-950131-C) id AA08694; Fri, 9 Jan 98 13:52:34 +0100 Received: from elect6.jrc.it by elec.isei.jrc.it (4.1/EI-3.0m) id AA10593; Fri, 9 Jan 98 13:50:29 +0100 Posted-Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:49:38 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:49:38 +0100 (MET) From: Dirk-Willem van Gulik X-Sender: dirkx@elect6.jrc.it Reply-To: Dirk-Willem van Gulik To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Tripmate, xntpd and reference sources Message-Id: Reply-Path: Dirk.vanGulik@jrc.it Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk With regard to the TripMate posting; over X-Mas I managed to convice one to work with the xntpd software whcih comes with BSD 2.x It is not completely trivial; in particular: 1. One needs a DeLorme / Unit specific init string 2. One needs to send some non-nmea commands to get the logging fast and particular enough to be usefull as a time source 3. One needs to fiddle with some of the xntpd constants as the 4800 baud cable+msg-ing iside the tripmate is not accurate enough to get 0.1 second resolution, thus tripping reject checks in xntpd. and (not yet done) 4. One neads a neat way of putting the lat/lon of the actual location into the xntpd config file, otherwise your unit will have to do a 15 mins cold start, rather than a 2-3 minute warm one. You can find the results on www.webweaving.org/notes/tripmate. I'll try to make a proper ports file to put onto ftp.freebsd.org Dw. http://cils.ceo.org http://enrm.ceo.org dirkx@technologist.com Dirk.vanGulik@jrc.it +39 332 78 0014 +39 332 78 9549 fax +39 332 78 9185 ISEI/ESBA; The Center For Earth Observation Joint Research Centre of the European Communities, Ispra, Italy From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 05:35:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA19936 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 05:35:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from db2server.voga.com.br (db2server.voga.com.br [200.239.39.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA19913 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 05:35:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from daniel_sobral@voga.com.br) From: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br Received: from papagaio.voga.com.br (papagaio.voga.com.br [200.239.39.2]) by db2server.voga.com.br (8.8.3+2.6Wbeta9/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA11284; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:35:42 -0200 Received: by papagaio.voga.com.br(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.06 (346.7 3-18-1997)) id 03256587.00502AD4 ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:35:38 -0300 X-Lotus-FromDomain: VOGA To: mike@smith.net.au cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <83256587.004F044C.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:35:33 -0300 Subject: Re: Device Driver Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Ah! You are building an encrypting *router*. Everything becomes much > much much more complicated. You have to maintain state for *all* of > the connections whose datagrams you are routing. This is respectably > nontrivial. [snip] > I have to be honest; it really sounds like you have embarked on a > product without actually *designing* the damn thing first. Then it doesn't sound right... :-) The product exists, and it's not mine. I'm just writing a driver for an encryption card that will be used by the product. Anyway, thanks for all the help. It seems all my problems haven been solved. In the end, I decided using tsleep, and they'll be creating a kernel process and accessing the device through it's normal interface. BTW, if I read the source code right, one "unit" of tsleep normally corresponds to 1/128 seconds, and 1/1024 while profiling, is that right? -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 05:39:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA20304 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 05:39:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp11.portal.net.au [202.12.71.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA20300 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 05:39:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA00656; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:02:49 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801091332.AAA00656@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br cc: mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Device Driver In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Jan 1998 11:35:33 -0300." <83256587.004F044C.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:02:49 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > Ah! You are building an encrypting *router*. Everything becomes much > > much much more complicated. You have to maintain state for *all* of > > the connections whose datagrams you are routing. This is respectably > > nontrivial. > > [snip] > > > I have to be honest; it really sounds like you have embarked on a > > product without actually *designing* the damn thing first. > > Then it doesn't sound right... :-) The product exists, and it's not mine. > I'm just writing a driver for an encryption card that will be used by the > product. Anyway, thanks for all the help. It seems all my problems haven > been solved. Ok. I think I haven't understood what you're attempting to achieve. Anyway. > In the end, I decided using tsleep, and they'll be creating a kernel > process and accessing the device through it's normal interface. > > BTW, if I read the source code right, one "unit" of tsleep normally > corresponds to 1/128 seconds, and 1/1024 while profiling, is that right? Each tsleep() count corresponds to 1/hz seconds, where hz should be considered opaque. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 05:45:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA20721 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 05:45:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from db2server.voga.com.br (db2server.voga.com.br [200.239.39.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA20712 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 05:45:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from daniel_sobral@voga.com.br) From: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br Received: from papagaio.voga.com.br (papagaio.voga.com.br [200.239.39.2]) by db2server.voga.com.br (8.8.3+2.6Wbeta9/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA12908; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:46:24 -0200 Received: by papagaio.voga.com.br(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.06 (346.7 3-18-1997)) id 03256587.00512614 ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:46:21 -0300 X-Lotus-FromDomain: VOGA To: mike@smith.net.au cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <83256587.0050BC26.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:46:18 -0300 Subject: Re: Device Driver Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Each tsleep() count corresponds to 1/hz seconds, where hz should > be considered opaque. Yup, but since I'm using tsleep to block for "a while", while the card does it's business, and waking up now and then to since if it has finished, I'd like to have _some_ notion of home much is hz. It's way different if hz is usually in then tenths of second, than if hz is hardly less than 1/100s. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 05:50:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA21121 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 05:50:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp11.portal.net.au [202.12.71.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA21107 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 05:50:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA00728; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:13:57 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801091343.AAA00728@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br cc: mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Device Driver In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Jan 1998 11:46:18 -0300." <83256587.0050BC26.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:13:56 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > Each tsleep() count corresponds to 1/hz seconds, where hz should > > be considered opaque. > > Yup, but since I'm using tsleep to block for "a while", while the card does > it's business, and waking up now and then to since if it has finished, I'd > like to have _some_ notion of home much is hz. It's way different if hz is > usually in then tenths of second, than if hz is hardly less than 1/100s. Not at all. You want to block for 1/10th of a second? Pass hz/10 as an argument. This way you can change the clock on the fly and still not lose your timing. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 06:01:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA26512 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 06:01:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from db2server.voga.com.br (db2server.voga.com.br [200.239.39.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA26473 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 06:01:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from daniel_sobral@voga.com.br) From: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br Received: from papagaio.voga.com.br (papagaio.voga.com.br [200.239.39.2]) by db2server.voga.com.br (8.8.3+2.6Wbeta9/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA11516; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:02:13 -0200 Received: by papagaio.voga.com.br(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.06 (346.7 3-18-1997)) id 03256587.00529619 ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:02:03 -0300 X-Lotus-FromDomain: VOGA To: mike@smith.net.au cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <83256587.00523977.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:01:59 -0300 Subject: Re: Device Driver Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Not at all. You want to block for 1/10th of a second? Pass hz/10 as > an argument. This way you can change the clock on the fly and still > not lose your timing. That's what I'm doing. But if I pass hz/10000 while the system will never wait less than hz/1000, I end up with results very different from those I expected. In other words, when I stop using DELAY and start using tsleep? -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 06:14:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA29837 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 06:14:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp11.portal.net.au [202.12.71.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA29806 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 06:13:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA00801; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:36:58 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801091406.AAA00801@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br cc: mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Device Driver In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Jan 1998 12:01:59 -0300." <83256587.00523977.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:36:57 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > Not at all. You want to block for 1/10th of a second? Pass hz/10 as > > an argument. This way you can change the clock on the fly and still > > not lose your timing. > > That's what I'm doing. But if I pass hz/10000 while the system will never > wait less than hz/1000, I end up with results very different from those I > expected. In other words, when I stop using DELAY and start using tsleep? That's something that you have to consider based on the time that a sleep call takes, the number of times you are likely to be taking the pause, and the behaviour of your hardware. eg. if you're looking at a latency of a few ms in your hardware, you should sleep. If it's a few us, you should use DELAY. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 07:02:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA04890 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 07:02:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA04855 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 07:02:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Message-Id: <199801091427.JAA07552@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:29:15 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: John Peter DeVale cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Netcards In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, John Peter DeVale wrote: > On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Jamie Bowden wrote: > Well, the benchmarks are not about performance as we really think of it - > as in faster is better. These benchmarks are about how well the system > stands up to rocks beting thrown at it. Meaning, does the system casue > the process to abort (ungracefully) when it should return an error code > and terminate the process in a controlled fashion. In some systems, the > entire OS can be crashed via user code - most notably Irix 6.2 or 6.3, or > whatever the latest irix is. > > Network performance isn't an issue, except since I didn't have a freeBSD > disc, I needed the network up to ftp the install binaries. > > So, as far as that goes, freeBSD was, to my surprise, one of the worst > offenders. Linux, on the other hand, did very well in our tests. I have > given it alot of thought, and I think I know why this is. I think that > the average freeBSD user is in general a more advanced computer person, > who knows how to operate a system, and programs well (excluding you of > course on the last item :) ). Thus when her/his program aborts > catastrophically, they debug it, and feel stupid that they did something > like pass NULL to atoi (which actually causes an abort in freeBSD). The > linux users, on the other hand, can't figure it out, or bitch and whine, > and as a result, the system call is fixed to return an error code instead > of an abort. Since you have to know about these bugs to fix them, it > seems likely that freeBSD users/programmers just do fewer stupid things. > > So, now that I have explained what the benchmarks are, you may be saying > to yourself, that sounds really stupid. You wouldn't be the first. While > it would be nice if the OS people fixed all these things, keep in mind > that the real target is thrid party libraries to be used in > mission-critical systems that are supposed to be fault tolerant. Meaning > they degrade gracefully, rather than crash the process. Operating systems > just provided us with a rich set of different objects with a common > interface to test on. Although some people here in the fault tolerant > computing group think that they should fix every possible bug, this is > ludicrous. With the exception of the OS's we tested that claimed to be > fault tolerant real time operating systems, there is no payoff for the > vendor to jump through hoops to get all of these robustness problems > fixed. It might do some good for them to fix the easy ones though. For > instance, many many problems are caused by nulls getting passed in to > system calls. Sure, the programmer should test this out, but they still > creep in, especially in complex programs. If you could fix a large amount > of these problems just by adding in null checks to the system calls, it > would be pretty easy, and inexpensive in terms of cpu overhead. > > In any case, you are welcome to check out bang, or not. Since you have > been so helpful I just wanted to give you the opportunity to check it out > if you wanted to. > > thanks again, > > John > > I have cc'd this to freebsd-hackers because I think quite a few of them might be very interested in what you are doing. I could also be very wrong. -- Jamie Bowden Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 07:06:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA05571 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 07:06:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whizzo.TransSys.COM (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA05528 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 07:06:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.TransSys.COM) Received: from whizzo.TransSys.COM (localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.TransSys.COM (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA22405; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:06:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199801091506.KAA22405@whizzo.TransSys.COM> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 X-Exmh-Isig-CompType: repl X-Exmh-Isig-Folder: inbox To: Tim Tsai cc: Greg Lehey , David Kelly , FreeBSD Hackers From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: GPS for xntpd Stratum 1 servers References: <199801090340.VAA13302@nospam.hiwaay.net> <19980108232535.39313@futuresouth.com> <19980109172927.06125@lemis.com> <19980109010737.63918@futuresouth.com> In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Jan 1998 01:07:37 CST." <19980109010737.63918@futuresouth.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 10:06:08 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > It'd be easier to use a couple of RS232<->RS422/RS485 converters. At > > > the typical GPS baud rate (4800/9600 baud) you should be able to run the > > > wire hundreds of meters if not more (RS422 spec escapes me at the moment). > > > The converters run for about $30-$100 a piece. > > > > What sort of time accuracy are you hoping for here? To transmit a > > short datagram (say, 16 bytes) at 9.6 kb/s will take you 16 ms. > > Since I am no expert on NTP I will refrain from further comments on > that. I kinda doubt the accuracy is dependent on the transmission latency > though (I'd think that a long but deterministic transmission time is > better than short but unpredictable transmission time), but what do I > know. Also, dependable transmission time over RS232 would be better than > unpredictable ethernet transmission time in this application, no? Actually no. What's going on is that you're using an external clock reference to discipline the logical clock in your computer. This logical clock implemented using the "real" clock in the kernel, and by having NTP adjust the frequency of the clock to effect a change in the phase (that is, changing slightly the rate at which the clock advances to advance or retard the time). It does this on a periodic basis, generating clock offset samples which are applied to the local clock model. You can think of the local clock model as a phase locked loop, where the error is generated by these successive offset measurements, and the charactistics of the PLL filter are also varied. The "stiffness" of the PLL increases as you get the clock running closer and closer to the correct frequency; this causes the clock to exhibit less short-term jitter, but makes it "harder" to change the frequency of the clock. Conversely, when the clock is further off the right frequency, the PLL filter is looser so that you can more easily move it closer to where you'd like it. The point of all this is that it's very important that the corrections used by the local clock algorithm have as low jitter as possible so you can get the PLL to "tighten up" it's control loop. The preferred way of doing this is to arrange that the 1-PPS (pulse per second) signal from the external reference clock capture the current offset when it fires; typically the 1PPS signal is connected to a control line (like DCD or CTS) which generates an interrupt when it transitions; a line discipline or other kernel-level interrupt handler captures the current system timestamp, and this is queued to be handled by the daemon process leisurely. Early implementations of NTP which used "loaner" Cesium clocks had no RS-232 connection; just the 1PPS signal. Essentially, you use the high-precision clock to mark the beginning of each second, and arrange for some other low-precision technique (like using NTP itself) to label the second that was marked. A whole different matter is the characteristics of the packet exchanges between peer NTP implementations. Over an ethernet, with the filtering algorithms used to process a set of clock offset and delay samples, you should easily be able to synchronize clocks to within 10ms. The limiting factors in a LAN environment tend to be OS performance in servicing arriving packets and timestamping them in a timely fashion, as well as a quality clock implementation in the hardware. The filtering alrogithms will discard offset/delay samples which are out of line due to instantaneous network congestion etc. It's this filtering algorithm which computes the "dispersion", which is a measurement of the quality of the path and clock. It's a measure of the jitter and noise on the offset/delay samples. There's some code that I submitted quite a while ago and is intergrated into (at least) 3.0-current which adds a socket option to timestamp packets when the are queued to socket buffers. I modified xntpd to enable this socket option, and use the timestamp rather than relying on the arrival timestamp taken when the SIGIO handler is invoked. I collected statistics on the difference between these two; "normally" they are within a few hundred microseconds of each other on a lightly loaded system. Occasionally, however, there are the huge excursions, where the SIGIO handler invocation is delayed 6 or 9 milliseconds; this is difficult to explain. There's quite a bit of stuff going on inside of the xntpd; most of the interesting bits are the filters used to process offset/delay samples and the whole local clock model implementation (of which, some is in the kernel with FreeBSD). If you want more info, the NTP RFC actually discusses all this - make sure you get the PostScript version of the document as the math is much easier to read than the plain ASCII text version. louie From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 07:56:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA12748 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 07:56:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from db2server.voga.com.br (db2server.voga.com.br [200.239.39.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA12730 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 07:56:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from daniel_sobral@voga.com.br) From: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br Received: from papagaio.voga.com.br (papagaio.voga.com.br [200.239.39.2]) by db2server.voga.com.br (8.8.3+2.6Wbeta9/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA11778; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:57:04 -0200 Received: by papagaio.voga.com.br(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.06 (346.7 3-18-1997)) id 03256587.005D1C52 ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:57:00 -0300 X-Lotus-FromDomain: VOGA To: mike@smith.net.au cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <83256587.005D0D7A.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:56:54 -0300 Subject: Re: Device Driver Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > eg. if you're looking at a latency of a few ms in your > hardware, you should sleep. If it's a few us, you should > use DELAY. Which answers my question, thank you. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 08:10:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA14108 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:10:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [195.1.171.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA14095 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:10:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) From: sthaug@nethelp.no Received: (qmail 28069 invoked by uid 1001); 9 Jan 1998 16:10:25 +0000 (GMT) To: joelh@gnu.org Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Adding process ID listing to netstat In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:54:13 -0600 (CST)" References: <199801090654.AAA15353@detlev.UUCP> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.28.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 17:10:25 +0100 Message-ID: <28067.884362225@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Would it be useful to others to allow netstat to give the process ID's > that are using sockets? Yes - but aren't you reimplementing lsof? Would it be a good idea to add lsof to the base system instead, like top was added? Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 08:16:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA14589 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:16:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from etinc.com ([207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA14580 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:16:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys.etinc.com ([207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA11856; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:17:58 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980109111929.00e5a310@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 11:19:29 -0500 To: Jamie Bowden From: dennis Subject: Re: FreeBSD Netcards Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk At 09:29 AM 1/9/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, John Peter DeVale wrote: > >> On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Jamie Bowden wrote: > >> Well, the benchmarks are not about performance as we really think of it - >> as in faster is better. These benchmarks are about how well the system >> stands up to rocks beting thrown at it. Meaning, does the system casue >> the process to abort (ungracefully) when it should return an error code >> and terminate the process in a controlled fashion. In some systems, the >> entire OS can be crashed via user code - most notably Irix 6.2 or 6.3, or >> whatever the latest irix is. >> >> Network performance isn't an issue, except since I didn't have a freeBSD >> disc, I needed the network up to ftp the install binaries. >> >> So, as far as that goes, freeBSD was, to my surprise, one of the worst >> offenders. Linux, on the other hand, did very well in our tests. I have >> given it alot of thought, and I think I know why this is. I think that >> the average freeBSD user is in general a more advanced computer person, >> who knows how to operate a system, and programs well (excluding you of >> course on the last item :) ). Thus when her/his program aborts >> catastrophically, they debug it, and feel stupid that they did something >> like pass NULL to atoi (which actually causes an abort in freeBSD). The >> linux users, on the other hand, can't figure it out, or bitch and whine, >> and as a result, the system call is fixed to return an error code instead >> of an abort. Since you have to know about these bugs to fix them, it >> seems likely that freeBSD users/programmers just do fewer stupid things. a couple of years ago I suggested a serious look at all this stuff, but making 'BSD unix crash proof doesn' t seem to be a major criteria. Any system that panics when an invalid raw socket command is issued is in serious need of work. There are MANY instances where panics are used inappropriately...where an error return or warning would keep a system from crashing. Dennis From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 08:34:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA15783 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:34:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA15745 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:34:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Dirk.vanGulik@jrc.it) Received: from elec.isei.jrc.it (elec.jrc.it) by mrelay.jrc.it (4.1/EB-950131-C) id AA15112; Fri, 9 Jan 98 17:35:39 +0100 Received: from elect6.jrc.it by elec.isei.jrc.it (4.1/EI-3.0m) id AA12766; Fri, 9 Jan 98 17:33:34 +0100 Posted-Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:32:44 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:32:44 +0100 (MET) From: Dirk-Willem van Gulik X-Sender: dirkx@elect6.jrc.it Reply-To: Dirk-Willem van Gulik To: "Louis A. Mamakos" Cc: Tim Tsai , Greg Lehey , David Kelly , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: GPS for xntpd Stratum 1 servers In-Reply-To: <199801091506.KAA22405@whizzo.TransSys.COM> Message-Id: Reply-Path: Dirk.vanGulik@jrc.it Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Louis A. Mamakos wrote: > The point of all this is that it's very important that the corrections > used by the local clock algorithm have as low jitter as possible so > you can get the PLL to "tighten up" it's control loop. The preferred > way of doing this is to arrange that the 1-PPS (pulse per second) > signal from the external reference clock capture the current offset > when it fires; typically the 1PPS signal is connected to a control > line (like DCD or CTS) which generates an interrupt when it transitions; > a line discipline or other kernel-level interrupt handler captures the > current system timestamp, and this is queued to be handled by the > daemon process leisurely. As an aside, whilst using cheap receivers such as the Garmin and the Tripmate I found that both seriously lack an extra 1PPS to the DCD, as both the NMEA string start/stop points on the TxD data stream jitter by as much as 0.2 second; even when switching off all other strings, etc, etc. (Although you can solder a wire to the 1PPS pin on either unit; it is just a sall SMD contact). Dw. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 10:24:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA25586 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:24:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA25381 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:23:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xqitZ-0000Pg-00; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:11:01 -0800 Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:10:40 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: dennis cc: Jamie Bowden , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Netcards In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980109111929.00e5a310@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, dennis wrote: > >> Well, the benchmarks are not about performance as we really think of it - > >> as in faster is better. These benchmarks are about how well the system > >> stands up to rocks beting thrown at it. Meaning, does the system casue ... > >> So, as far as that goes, freeBSD was, to my surprise, one of the worst > >> offenders. Linux, on the other hand, did very well in our tests. I have > >> given it alot of thought, and I think I know why this is. I think that > >> the average freeBSD user is in general a more advanced computer person, > >> who knows how to operate a system, and programs well (excluding you of > >> course on the last item :) ). Thus when her/his program aborts > >> catastrophically, they debug it, and feel stupid that they did something > >> like pass NULL to atoi (which actually causes an abort in freeBSD). The > >> linux users, on the other hand, can't figure it out, or bitch and whine, > >> and as a result, the system call is fixed to return an error code instead > >> of an abort. Since you have to know about these bugs to fix them, it > >> seems likely that freeBSD users/programmers just do fewer stupid things. atoi isn't a system call. A program that passes a NULL to atoi isn't going to work. The fact that you get an ABORT vs. an error message is just a matter of assisting debugging. Neither result is more correct than the other. > a couple of years ago I suggested a serious look at all this stuff, but making > 'BSD unix crash proof doesn' t seem to be a major criteria. Any system that > panics when an invalid raw socket command is issued is in serious need of > work. This is bit of tangent. Making library calls produce error messages when passed non-sensical data has nothing to do "crash proofing". Such programs will die anyhow, but aren't going to take the system down. This is raw socket stuff is interesting. Example source please. I don't believe this problem exists anymore. I know that Julian fixed problems with routing sockets. As a side point, routing sockets and raw sockets can only be accessed by root processes. At this point, you will argue that not even root should be able to crash the machine. Perhaps you are right. But there are many ways on FreeBSD and Linux for root to crash the system. Both Linux and FreeBSD root processes can access raw i/o ports. > There are MANY instances where panics are used inappropriately...where > an error return or warning would keep a system from crashing. Another tangent. Panics have little to do with application errors that were described in the original message. In fact there was no mention of panics at all. The only panic I've ever seen is "page fault in kernel mode", which is pretty unrecoverable. What are these panics that are so easily recoverable? > Dennis Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 11:30:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA02715 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:30:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA02692 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:30:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06357; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:30:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd006286; Fri Jan 9 12:30:29 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA28321; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:30:18 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199801091930.MAA28321@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: X based Free installation To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 19:30:18 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, tom@sdf.com, capriotti@geocities.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Simon Shapiro" at Feb 6, 36 10:28:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > BTW, you made a comment about Linux ease of installation. Which Linux? Any Linux for which the Linux camp is willing to send out a schmuck to endure the pain on your behalf is basically painless to install. It's topologically equivalent to having very, very good install tools. ;-). Also, I screwed up my otherwise beautiful example with a factual error: > > The Catholic Church vs. Galileo was mostly the > > result of him writing Principia Mathematica in Italian instead of > > Latin -- "us commoners" of the time couldn't read or write Latin, and > > new ideas needed to be fit into Church doctrine over time so that > > "us commoners" wouldn't see abrupt changes and thus erode the > > claim to authority of the Church. 8-). Galileo, of course, did not write Principia Mathematica, which was of course, written in Latin, not Italian. Thanks to Pedro Giffuni for pointing this out (to my terrific embarrassment -- I almost never make this kind of error). The book I should have referenced was De Revolutionibus orblure coelestium ("The Revolution of the heavens", not "Mathematical Principles"). Anyone interested in a detailed account of the event should see http://www.knight.org/advent/cathen/06342b.htm Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 11:51:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA05246 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:51:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA05232 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:51:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03784; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:33:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd003741; Fri Jan 9 12:32:52 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA28416; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:32:49 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199801091932.MAA28416@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: make_device_driver.sh To: daniel_sobral@voga.com.br Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 19:32:49 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <83256586.006F7192.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> from "daniel_sobral@voga.com.br" at Jan 8, 98 05:18:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Is there any chance I can convince you to do seperate > > open/close calls for each instance of an open or a close? > > That would be the "reflexive" interface? :-) > > Now that I have _seen_ how screwed up the thing is, I whole heartedly > behind the proposal. Yes. That's the one. I think it's necessary for device bus code, if the code is to allow a "detach"/"deinitialize" pairing. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 12:58:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA12195 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:58:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA12105 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:57:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.2/nospam) with UUCP id VAA18321 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 21:57:28 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.8/keltia-2.13/nospam) id VAA13797; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 21:42:58 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980109214258.60261@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 21:42:58 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ACL based file access mechanism for FreeBSD? References: <199801072207.OAA25411@monk.via.net> <19980109101550.48723@deepo.prosa.dk> <19980109120216.HY47406@mars.hsc.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <19980109120216.HY47406@mars.hsc.fr>; from Pierre Beyssac on Fri, Jan 09, 1998 at 12:02:16PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3963 AMD-K6 MMX @ 208 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk According to Pierre Beyssac: > AFAIK, the ext2fs is not based on Rémy's code. I believe it's a ffs > rewritten with the ext2fs structures. From the original ext2fs code, > it apparently only uses the .h files and a few C routines. Not exactly, it is the version of ext2fs used in Lites, a Lite-2 server for Mach 3.x and 4.x: dyson 95/11/05 15:25:13 Added: sys/gnu/ext2fs COPYRIGHT.INFO ext2_alloc.c ext2_balloc.c ext2_extern.h ext2_fs.h ext2_fs_i.h ext2_fs_sb.h ext2_inode.c ext2_inode_cnv.c ext2_linux_balloc.c ext2_linux_ialloc.c ext2_lookup.c ext2_readwrite.c ext2_subr.c ext2_vfsops.c ext2_vnops.c fs.h i386-bitops.h Log: Main code for the ext2fs filesystem. Please refer to the COPYRIGHT.INFO file for GPL restrictions. This code was ported to the BSD platform by Godmar Back and specifically to FreeBSD by John Dyson. This code is still green and should be used with caution. Additional changes to UFS necessary to make this code work will be commited seperately. Submitted by: Godmar Back Obtained from: Lites/Mach4 > That's probably why Rémy has no intention to be involved in this :-) There is also a problem with the license if I remember well. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #2: Thu Jan 8 00:49:00 CET 1998 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 12:58:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA12222 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:58:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA12051 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:57:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.2/nospam) with UUCP id VAA18119 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 21:57:00 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.8/keltia-2.13/nospam) id VAA13761; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 21:38:29 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980109213828.44531@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 21:38:28 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Adding process ID listing to netstat References: <199801090654.AAA15353@detlev.UUCP> <28067.884362225@verdi.nethelp.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <28067.884362225@verdi.nethelp.no>; from sthaug@nethelp.no on Fri, Jan 09, 1998 at 05:10:25PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3963 AMD-K6 MMX @ 208 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk According to sthaug@nethelp.no: > Yes - but aren't you reimplementing lsof? Would it be a good idea to add > lsof to the base system instead, like top was added? The main "problem" with lsof is that it is changing often (although it is for many things we don't care about like other system's porting). -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #2: Thu Jan 8 00:49:00 CET 1998 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 14:31:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA19930 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:31:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from etinc.com ([207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19916 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:31:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys.etinc.com ([207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA12885; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:32:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980109173418.00e5be40@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 17:34:23 -0500 To: Tom From: dennis Subject: Re: FreeBSD Netcards Cc: Jamie Bowden , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk At 10:10 AM 1/9/98 -0800, Tom wrote: > >On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, dennis wrote: > >> >> Well, the benchmarks are not about performance as we really think of it - >> >> as in faster is better. These benchmarks are about how well the system >> >> stands up to rocks beting thrown at it. Meaning, does the system casue >... >> >> So, as far as that goes, freeBSD was, to my surprise, one of the worst >> >> offenders. Linux, on the other hand, did very well in our tests. I have >> >> given it alot of thought, and I think I know why this is. I think that >> >> the average freeBSD user is in general a more advanced computer person, >> >> who knows how to operate a system, and programs well (excluding you of >> >> course on the last item :) ). Thus when her/his program aborts >> >> catastrophically, they debug it, and feel stupid that they did something >> >> like pass NULL to atoi (which actually causes an abort in freeBSD). The >> >> linux users, on the other hand, can't figure it out, or bitch and whine, >> >> and as a result, the system call is fixed to return an error code instead >> >> of an abort. Since you have to know about these bugs to fix them, it >> >> seems likely that freeBSD users/programmers just do fewer stupid things. > > atoi isn't a system call. > > A program that passes a NULL to atoi isn't going to work. The fact that >you get an ABORT vs. an error message is just a matter of assisting >debugging. Neither result is more correct than the other. > >> a couple of years ago I suggested a serious look at all this stuff, but making >> 'BSD unix crash proof doesn' t seem to be a major criteria. Any system that >> panics when an invalid raw socket command is issued is in serious need of >> work. > > This is bit of tangent. Making library calls produce error messages >when passed non-sensical data has nothing to do "crash proofing". Such >programs will die anyhow, but aren't going to take the system down. > > This is raw socket stuff is interesting. Example source please. I >don't believe this problem exists anymore. I know that Julian fixed >problems with routing sockets. As a side point, routing sockets and raw >sockets can only be accessed by root processes. Just look in raw_usrreq(). the default case is a panic. > > At this point, you will argue that not even root should be able to crash >the machine. Perhaps you are right. But there are many ways on FreeBSD >and Linux for root to crash the system. Both Linux and FreeBSD root >processes can access raw i/o ports. > >> There are MANY instances where panics are used inappropriately...where >> an error return or warning would keep a system from crashing. > > Another tangent. Panics have little to do with application errors that >were described in the original message. In fact there was no mention of >panics at all. You were talking about inappropriate handling of exception conditions, which seems to be a parallel. db From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 14:43:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA20940 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:43:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA20920 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:43:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA12761; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:43:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd012737; Fri Jan 9 15:43:04 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA00305; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:42:55 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199801092242.PAA00305@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Netcards To: jamie@itribe.net (Jamie Bowden) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 22:42:55 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jdevale@ece.cmu.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801091427.JAA07552@gatekeeper.itribe.net> from "Jamie Bowden" at Jan 9, 98 09:29:15 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Thus when her/his program aborts > > catastrophically, they debug it, and feel stupid that they did something > > like pass NULL to atoi (which actually causes an abort in freeBSD). The > > linux users, on the other hand, can't figure it out, or bitch and whine, > > and as a result, the system call is fixed to return an error code instead > > of an abort. Since you have to know about these bugs to fix them, it > > seems likely that freeBSD users/programmers just do fewer stupid things. The abort you are seeing is a NULL pointer dereference that tries to dereference the contents of page 0 in the process address space. In FreeBSD, page zero is unmapped. I will demonstrate why this is actually a Good Thing(tm). In SVR4, there is a tunable in the kernel configuration that allows you to modify the behaviour. There are two behaviours available: 1) Map a zero filled page to page zero. This causes the NULL to be treated, incorrectly, as a NULL valued string instead of a NULL. A process which is still running can be examined via /proc for the address space mappings to see if it has triggered the page 0 mapping. This is the default behaviour. It is default because of the large volume of badly written code which depended on the Null dereference being treated as a NULL valued string, and the fact that, historically, page zero was mapped and the magic number was such that, though it was not a NULL valued string, you were unlikely to get a match between what was at offset zero to the first occurance of a NULL byte, and whatever string you were trying to compare with strcmp, etc.. The "atoi problem" was such that the magic number did not include a digit before the terminating 0, and thus atoi of NULL returned zero. 2) Fault, exactly as FreeBSD faults, on NULL pointer dereference, instead of mapping a zero filled page at page zero. This is non-default behaviour. Technically, it is incorrect to map a zero filled page at page zero, since it masks programming errors. Specifically, it is not possible to trap a NULL pointer dereference (ie: a dereference of a global pointer which is not initialized before use, and for which the compiler will not complain, since global and locally scoped static pointers are considered to be agregate initialized to zero -- the compiler can only trap for auto [stack] variables which are not initialed before use. And then only when the use occurs withing the peephole optimzation window from the start of the scope in which the use occurs). An alternate method of trapping NULL pointers traps fewer wild pointers, and results in an abort for non-NULL valued pointers: This method requires that you compare function arguments to determine if they are NULL valued. You can then either return an error, or you can replace the argument with a pointer to a static NULL valued string, in order to ensure code compatability with historical (incorrect) code. The first approach is wrong. It reports only a tiny subset of error conditions in a given class of error conditions, and continues to fault. The second approach is also wrong. It masks badly written code, and prevents the detection and correction of the errors. Both the first and second approach add a compare and branch, and make good code slower, while not fixing or flagging the errors in the bad code. Why not optimize for the non-error case? And encourage correcting historically bad code? Why protect bad engineers from harsh notification of the fact that they are bad engineers? It is interesting to note that on systems which map page zero, it is almost impossible to implement "purify" type tools. Have yo seen a "Purify" type tool for an MS OS? No? Well, you probably won't. > > So, now that I have explained what the benchmarks are, you may be saying > > to yourself, that sounds really stupid. You wouldn't be the first. While > > it would be nice if the OS people fixed all these things, keep in mind > > that the real target is thrid party libraries to be used in > > mission-critical systems that are supposed to be fault tolerant. Meaning > > they degrade gracefully, rather than crash the process. You are mixing metaphors here. The definition of "fault tolerance" is meant to include "tolerance of hardware faults", not "tolerance of bad programming practice". Passing invalid values to library routines is bad programming practice. A better "benchmark" for "system fault tolerance", the definition of which is meant to include "the isolation of well behaved programs from the effects of badly behaved programs", would be whether or not FreeBSD is robust in the face of bad system call arguments. There exists a program to test this, called "crashme". It randomly generates code, then attempts to execute it, in order to identify areas where system calls or other memory protection failures would allow one process to damage the execution of another process. It is generally considered to do this by crashing the machine, under the assumption that the OS correctly enforces protection domains, and only bad programming practice would put the processes in the same protection domain (ie: run by the same UID in the same branch of the common filesystem). Barring that, the only "effect" that is possible is denial of service. > > Operating systems > > just provided us with a rich set of different objects with a common > > interface to test on. Consisting of system calls and libraries, yes. But that does not mean that we should be "tolerant" enough to print out "Hello World!" from a program that only does a ``puts("foo!\n");'' merely because the source file is named ``hello.c''. 8-). > > Although some people here in the fault tolerant > > computing group think that they should fix every possible bug, this is > > ludicrous. With the exception of the OS's we tested that claimed to be > > fault tolerant real time operating systems, there is no payoff for the > > vendor to jump through hoops to get all of these robustness problems > > fixed. Incorrect. Fixing the problem prevents denial of service attacks on multiuser systems in corporate, ISP, and education environments, etc.. This is why the Pentium "f00f bug" was such a big deal. > > It might do some good for them to fix the easy ones though. For > > instance, many many problems are caused by nulls getting passed in to > > system calls. Not on working systems, there aren't. The only problem possible on a working system (Windows 95 is *not* "a working system", in the sense that it does not enforce full memory protection by domain, nor does it engage in full resource tracking of process resource) is damage of the ability for the incorrect program to produce a correct result. This may seem obvious to the rest of us, but... Incorrect programs can not be logically expected to produce correct results. To argue otherwise is to argue that "even a broken [analog] watch is correct twice a day". It's a true statement, but the error is +/- 6hours, so even though true, it's not empirically useful. 8-). > > Sure, the programmer should test this out, but they still > > creep in, especially in complex programs. If you could fix a > > large amount of these problems just by adding in null checks to > > the system calls, it would be pretty easy, and inexpensive in > > terms of cpu overhead. That's what a SIGSEGV *is*... a NULL check for system calls and library calls... and even calls in the user's program, which *don't* have NULL checks. BTW: it's possible to automatically generate test suites for code completeness and correctness testing. The process is called "Branch Path Analysis". One tool which can do this is called "BattleMap". You can obtain it for ~$20,000 a license for Solaris/SunOS systems. Alternately, several years ago in comp.sources, someone posted a C++ branch path analyzer for producing code coverage test cases for C code. You could easily use this tool, in conjunction with TET or ETET (also freely available off the net) to produce a validation suite for your application. Frankly, this speaks to the distinction I draw between "Programmers" and "Software Engineers". A Programmer can take someone else's problem soloution and translate it into machine instructions. A Software Engineer, on the other hand, can solve problems using a computer. There will always be differences in craftsmanship as long as we continue to use tools. That's the nature of the connection between humans and tools. There are good craftmen, and there are bad. I think that your complaint is with the craftsman, and not his tools. If you can find flaws in the tools, then by all means, take it up with the toolmaker. But it is not the responsibility of a toolmaker to label hammers "do not use on screws"; that's the responsibility of the people who train the next generation of craftsmen. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 14:52:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA21917 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:52:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA21908 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:52:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22188; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:52:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd022159; Fri Jan 9 15:52:29 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA00624; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:52:16 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199801092252.PAA00624@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: dladdr hax To: dap@damon.com (Damon Anton Permezel) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 22:52:16 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, tlambert@primenet.com, dap@damon.com, nate@mt.sri.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801082312.RAA20001@damon.com> from "Damon Anton Permezel" at Jan 8, 98 05:12:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I'd do it, but I have no access, *and* I have concerns about having to > hack on the kernel to support java. I'd prefer if the JDK worked on > "all recent versions", but certain enhancements can be accomodated > dynamically. > > My understanding of it is that it requires the full path be kept by execve(). > It can either be stored in the u area, or can be copied into the new address > space somewhere, ala argv/envp. This makes it easier for ld.so to know where > it is, and then the dladdr hack follows quite easily. > If it is kept in the u area, then some mechanism needs to be dreamed up to > let ld.so get at it, which I like less. Actually, this isn't true. It's pretty trivial to write and run a dladdr using program on a solaris box. If you do this in the main program: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- #include #include main() { Dl_info dli; if( !dladdr( (void *)&printf, &dli)) { fprintf( stderr, "No mapping found\n"); exit( 1); } printf( "file containing address range \"%s\"\n", dli.dli_fname); printf( "base address of file image 0x%08X\n", dli.dli_fbase); printf( "symbol name \"%s\"\n", dli.dli_sname); printf( "symbol address 0x%08X\n", dli.dli_saddr); exit( 0); } -------------------------------------------------------------------------- You get this as output: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- file containing address range "./dladdr" base address of file image 0x08048000 symbol name "_PROCEDURE_LINKAGE_TABLE_" symbol address 0x080486D4 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- For the program file running, you get the argv[ 0], which may pr may not be correct. The reason you get this for printf, which is in libc.so, is the th expression "&printf" is actually the address of the stub function which is generated when theC library is created, and is statically linked into your program. If I exec it, and fake up an argv[0] that's nonsensical, I get the nonsense back. HOWEVER... If I use the function as JAVA uses the function, and call it on a a local address from *within* a shared library, the expression "&printf" will refer to the address of the printf function in the library. This will cause the path to the *library actually mapped* to be returned. The "file containing address range" is actually the only field used by java. It's used to get the path to the library for the symbol in the library. Basically, to allow the java shared library "where were you loaded from". Then it goes up two directories and down one, because *by definition*, the classes file for a JNI shared library implementation is located two directories up, and one down, in the machine independent data. This is simply a convention which Sun expects everyone to follow to set relative locations in the FS for class files, relative to the location of the shared library for which the class file is a JNI. Basically, this means that there is no kernel hacking required. All change go (and *should* go) in ld.so and crt.0. For the kludge, I'd just say /usr/local/java is the "derived" directory. Then let users make symbolic links as necessary. For packages installed in the default locations, none will be necessary. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 14:58:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA22359 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:58:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA22350 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:58:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA23568; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:57:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd023498; Fri Jan 9 15:57:36 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA00886; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:57:33 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199801092257.PAA00886@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: dladdr hax To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 22:57:33 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dap@damon.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, nate@mt.sri.com, tlambert@primenet.com In-Reply-To: <199801082328.PAA04229@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Jan 8, 98 03:28:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Well, the exec part is component the other is that dladdr is used > to locate where a library was loaded from. Again, for the command path > argv[0] clearly tells you where the command got executed from. Yes. This is pretty much never used, at least in java. The argv[0] is what is returned. The information is the information known to the crt0 and/or the ld.so.1 (Sun versions their ld.so becuase they are smarter than we are. 8-) 8-)). > If I am not mistaken the command execution portion should be also > in the U area or some clever location for the ps to be able to > display it. No kernel work is really needed. > My wild guess is that ld.so should keep an internal table of > start - end address plus path of library . The dladdr should > be a simple exercise to locate the address range where a variable > lies in. If we don't want to implement dladdr if the table > is accessible to the program we can do the library lookup 8) Yes. The actual thing it does is dlsym the address to get the symbol before the address. Actually, for multiple shared libraries, if there were no start/end symbols spanning the full library address space, it would "erroneously" report the last symbol of the previously contiguous address space (either the library before, or the program address space, or 0, if the page containing the address wasn't mapped). Heh. This is fun... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 14:59:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA22421 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:59:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA22367 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:58:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA16621; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:58:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd016598; Fri Jan 9 15:58:31 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA00952; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:58:28 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199801092258.PAA00952@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Motif question To: dap@damon.com (Damon Anton Permezel) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 22:58:28 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, dap@damon.com, nate@mt.sri.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801082328.RAA20128@damon.com> from "Damon Anton Permezel" at Jan 8, 98 05:28:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > In general, this is true, but it also appears that, if the address passed in > is within the exec image, it returns the path to the exec image. > Thats what I was rambling about. The argv[0]. See the ouput from my test program run on a Solaris box for details. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 15:22:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA24372 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:22:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomis.simon-shapiro.org (nomis.i-Connect.Net [206.190.143.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA24327 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:22:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@nomis.Simon-Shapiro.ORG) Received: (qmail 10683 invoked by uid 1000); 9 Jan 1998 23:23:30 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-010198 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199801091930.MAA28321@usr09.primenet.com> Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 15:23:30 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: X based Free installation Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, capriotti@geocities.com, tom@sdf.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On 09-Jan-98 Terry Lambert wrote: >> BTW, you made a comment about Linux ease of installation. Which Linux? > > Any Linux for which the Linux camp is willing to send out a schmuck > to endure the pain on your behalf is basically painless to install. > > It's topologically equivalent to having very, very good install tools. > > ;-). That's true. Or M$ install which has the option of calling the support line (manned by non-M$ companies, many of them here in town), with your favorite credit card. I did not find Debian installation better than FreeBSD. Worse if anything. BTW, Slowlaris install is GUI driven and much worse than FreeBSD too. I think you should design the logic for a new install and follow that by a small, useful GUI library. What was the name of the GUI layer on AT&T 3B1? > Also, I screwed up my otherwise beautiful example with a factual > error: .... My point the pictograms are not always better than words still stands. ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 15:42:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA26740 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:42:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl (smtp1.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA26097; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:36:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pkorsten@XS4All.nl) Received: from grendel.IAEhv.nl (asd-isdn02-15.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.46.48]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.8.6/XS4ALL) with SMTP id AAA03543; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:36:47 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199801092336.AAA03543@smtp1.xs4all.nl> From: "Peter Korsten" To: , Subject: How to install without a CD-ROM and without an existing installation Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:34:00 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk This question probably belongs only on 'questions', but my experience (from the time that I read both lists) tells me that I get a faster answer from 'hackers', and I'd really like to know the answer fast. I recently got a laptop from my new employer (BT) and want to install FreeBSD 2.2.5 on the second partition. (People who remember me from earlier occasions will laugh their heads off by now, but it's really handy with all the Suns lying around at my job.) The trouble is, I don't have a CD-ROM. I do have an Internet connection, but I don't really feel like downloading many megabytes over a 28k8 line. Therefore, at my job I copied the files from the bin directory in the 2.2.5-RELEASE tree, but those are Unix files. A copy of the CD can't be found on the website (well, that figures) and you need those files if you want to install from an MS-DOS file system. Though the installation floppy can read the MS-DOS file system, I can't do that from the holographic shell and there aren't other means to access that file system. To install the Unix files, I first need - right, a FreeBSD installation. Is there a simple solution or should I just wait, buy the CD (whereever I can spot it here in Amsterdam) or download it for a couple of hours? - Peter From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 15:44:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA27246 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:44:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from damon.com (root@damon.com [207.170.114.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA27220 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:44:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dap@damon.com) Received: (from dap@localhost) by damon.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) id RAA25165; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:44:14 -0600 (CST) From: Damon Anton Permezel Message-Id: <199801092344.RAA25165@damon.com> Subject: Re: Motif question To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:44:14 -0600 (CST) Cc: dap@damon.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, nate@mt.sri.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801092258.PAA00952@usr04.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Jan 9, 98 10:58:28 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk "Terry Lambert sez: " > > In general, this is true, but it also appears that, if the address passed in > > is within the exec image, it returns the path to the exec image. > > Thats what I was rambling about. > > The argv[0]. See the ouput from my test program run on a Solaris box > for details. 8-). > Yes, and please provide the output of the programme when the prog is found from your $PATH. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 15:48:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA27677 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:48:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from damon.com (root@damon.com [207.170.114.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA26885 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:42:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dap@damon.com) Received: (from dap@localhost) by damon.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) id RAA25140; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:42:29 -0600 (CST) From: Damon Anton Permezel Message-Id: <199801092342.RAA25140@damon.com> Subject: Re: dladdr hax To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:42:29 -0600 (CST) Cc: dap@damon.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, tlambert@primenet.com, nate@mt.sri.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801092252.PAA00624@usr04.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Jan 9, 98 10:52:16 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk "Terry Lambert sez: " > > > > My understanding of it is that it requires the full path be kept by execve(). > Actually, this isn't true. It's pretty trivial to write and run a > dladdr using program on a solaris box. Actually it is true, and it looks like Solaris JDK has the same bug we do (with the kluge I employed). > > If you do this in the main program: > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > file containing address range "./dladdr" This is the bug. If you don't use "./dladdr", but put it somewhere in you $PATH, then what happens? > > HOWEVER... > > If I use the function as JAVA uses the function, and call it on a > a local address from *within* a shared library, the expression "&printf" > will refer to the address of the printf function in the library. The point I am attempting to make is that this is not the only use made of it. Look at jre_md.c. You will see that in that instance, they are attempting to get the path to the executable, via explicitly using a non-shared address, which, as you point out, returns the equivalent of argv[0]. They are expecting this to be the full, absolute path. Here is an extraction: /* * Returns default Java home based on location of this executable. */ char * GetDefaultJavaHome() { ... } They dladdr &GetDefaultJavaHome. xylyl% nm jre 00001020 F /usr/lib/crt0.o 000020e4 T _AddProperty 00002178 T _DeleteProperty 00002a24 T _GetDefaultJavaHome Since you have access to solaris, and have that programme at hand, please run it from a $PATH location, and let me know if it gives you the full path or not. if not, then the code to implement this doesn't make sense, is broken, and we don't have to worry about it. If so, then I still believe that FreeBSD execve() will have to be modified in order to pass the full path to the executable so ld.so can find it and populate the initial som_path. In any event, there are more pressing bugs to deal with in the JDK port. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 16:07:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA29181 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 16:07:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from damon.com (root@damon.com [207.170.114.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA29168 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 16:07:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dap@damon.com) Received: (from dap@localhost) by damon.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) id SAA25218; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 18:00:58 -0600 (CST) From: Damon Anton Permezel Message-Id: <199801100000.SAA25218@damon.com> Subject: Re: dladdr hax To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 18:00:58 -0600 (CST) Cc: dap@damon.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, tlambert@primenet.com, nate@mt.sri.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199801092252.PAA00624@usr04.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Jan 9, 98 10:52:16 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk "Terry Lambert sez: " > > My understanding of it is that it requires the full path be kept by execve(). > Actually, this isn't true. It's pretty trivial to write and run a > dladdr using program on a solaris box. I just realized that on Solaris, it does appear to return argv[0]. This is why they put the hack in their wrapper scripts to attempt to pass the full path name to the shell, which will obligingly put it in argv[0]. OK. I concede that I am an idiot. Thankyou very much. Cheers, Damon. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 16:15:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA00312 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 16:15:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp2.xs4all.nl (smtp2.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA00273; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 16:15:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from albast@xs4all.nl) Received: from xs2.xs4all.nl (albast@xs2.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.43]) by smtp2.xs4all.nl (8.8.6/XS4ALL) with ESMTP id BAA14748; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 01:15:30 +0100 (CET) Received: (from albast@localhost) by xs2.xs4all.nl (8.8.6/8.8.6) id BAA14850; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 01:15:30 +0100 (MET) From: albast Message-Id: <199801100015.BAA14850@xs2.xs4all.nl> Subject: Any help greatly appreciated To: scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 01:15:29 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi, This week I've had some equipment sent to the US of A. (Every part was in working order) Now there is a problem concerning a quantum SCSI disk, namely a "QUANTUM FIREBALL_TM1080S" This is supposed to be a 2.1 gig drive which worries me because I thought it was supposed to show 2110 instead of 1080.. but I have to rely on what the remote company (I'm not a USA redident) says (searching the quantum site doesn't clearly give information regarding this) They've informed me the drive shows: "sd1(NCR0:1:0): NOT READY asc:4,d5 Vendor Specific ASCQ, FALIURE" and then later on: "sd1: could not get size" I have never encountered these kind of messages before.. There were no problems when I did the installation of FreeBSD, as a "dangerously dedicated" disk. The system was maintained for a week without any problems like these arising at all.. it worked ok before the shipment to the USA. Any help would be greatly appreciated, what's wrong and what can I do about it (if at all possible) ? Does anyone know this drive is really of 2 gig capacity or if there could have been a mixup (1080 sounds like a 1 gig drive to me) ? I know I should have written this stuff down before sending (stupid me!) :-( Thanks in advance, I hope there is someone who is able to help me, Sincerely, Jeroen From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 16:37:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA02008 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 16:37:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ip126.directhost.net (ip126.directhost.net [209.67.132.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA02004 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 16:37:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rode@directhost.net) Received: from ip012 (ip012.directhost.net [209.67.132.12]) by ip126.directhost.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA03495 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 16:16:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000901bd1d5d$e0e35200$0c8443d1@ip012.directhost.net> From: "Rod Ebrahimi" To: Subject: Fxp0 problem Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 16:22:45 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I seem to be recieving a very strange network error... It doesn't seem to effect the network at all but it does come up every once and a while: fxp0: warning: unsupported PHY, type=7,addr=1 Something to that sort. Any suggestions would be great thanks. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 17:42:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA07379 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:42:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wcc.wcc.net (wcc.wcc.net [208.6.232.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA07370 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:42:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from piquan@wcc.wcc.net) Received: from detlev.UUCP (ppp123.wcc.net [208.6.232.123]) by wcc.wcc.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA23709; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 19:39:17 -0600 (CST) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.8.8/8.8.7) id TAA23025; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 19:42:28 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 19:42:28 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199801100142.TAA23025@detlev.UUCP> To: sthaug@nethelp.no CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <28067.884362225@verdi.nethelp.no> (sthaug@nethelp.no) Subject: Re: Adding process ID listing to netstat From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: <199801090654.AAA15353@detlev.UUCP> <28067.884362225@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >> Would it be useful to others to allow netstat to give the process ID's >> that are using sockets? > Yes - but aren't you reimplementing lsof? Would it be a good idea to add > lsof to the base system instead, like top was added? I'm not familiar with 'lsof'. I'll have to check it out. I just hacked it last night when I didn't know what a couple of ports were being used for, gdb'd my way into finding the stucture, and decided I didn't ever want to do that again. Cheers, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 18:36:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA10752 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 18:36:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA10726 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 18:36:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA12684; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 18:35:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199801100235.SAA12684@implode.root.com> To: "Rod Ebrahimi" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fxp0 problem In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Jan 1998 16:22:45 PST." <000901bd1d5d$e0e35200$0c8443d1@ip012.directhost.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 18:35:12 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I seem to be recieving a very strange network error... It doesn't seem >to effect the network at all but it does come up every once and a while: > >fxp0: warning: unsupported PHY, type=7,addr=1 > >Something to that sort. > >Any suggestions would be great thanks. This indicates that you have an older version of the device driver that doesn't have support for the i82555 PHY chip that Intel is using on later rev cards. The problem will go away if you upgrade to 2.2.5 or -current. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 18:52:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA11673 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 18:52:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from astart4.astart.com (papowell@astart4.astart.com [206.71.174.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA11659 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 18:52:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from papowell@astart4.astart.com) Received: (from papowell@localhost) by astart4.astart.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA05862 for FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 19:04:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 19:04:07 -0800 (PST) From: papowell@astart.com Message-Id: <199801100304.TAA05862@astart4.astart.com> To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: LPRng and FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I am the developer of the LPRng print spooler software - a replacement for the BSD LPR spooler. I would like to contact the BSD distribution group and recommend that they replace their BSD LPR distribution with LPRng, or offer it as an alternative. The latest release, LPRng 3.4.1, appears to be very stable, and can be obtained from: http://www.astart.com (link to LPRng) ftp://ftp.astart.com/pub/LPRng/ There are also a set of filters that support accounting and other issues - see the LPRng/FILTERS for details. In the very near future I will also be providing a simple 'setup' script for printcap generation. Patrick Powell Astart Technologies, papowell@astart.com 9475 Chesapeake Drive, Suite D, Network and System San Diego, CA 92123 Consulting 619-874-6543 FAX 619-279-8424 LPRng - Print Spooler (http://www.astart.com) LPRng - An Enhanced Printer Spooler Patrick Powell The LPRng software is an enhanced, extended, and portable implementation of the Berkeley LPR print spooler functionality. While providing the same interface and meeting RFC1179 requirements, the implementation is completely new and provides support for the following features: lightweight (no databases needed) lpr, lpc, and lprm programs; dynamic redirection of print queues; automatic job holding; highly verbose diagnostics; multiple printers serving a single queue; client programs do not need to run SUID root; greatly enhanced security checks; and a greatly improved permission and authorization mechanism. The source software compiles and runs on a wide variety of UNIX systems, and is compatible with other print spoolers and network printers that use the LPR interface and meet RFC1179 requirements. The package comes with filters for PostScript and HP printers, as well as the usual 'dumb' printers. Note that the PostScript and HP filters do page counting and produce accounting information accounting. In addition, there are a wide variety of other filters that can do page formatting, and produce banner pages. For users that require compatibility with the SVR4 lp and lpstat interface, lpr and lpq will simulate this interface, eliminating the need for another print spooler package. In addition, a publically available PCNFSD server is distributed with LPRng, and interfaces with the PC/DOS/Windows based NFS style print spoolers. For users that require secure and/or authenticated printing support, LPRng supports Kerberos V and/or PGP authentication methods. Additional authentication support is extremely simple to add. Finally, Astart Technlogies (http://www.astart.com) offers commercial support for the LPRng software. Web Page and HOWTO in HTML format: http://www.astart.com/LPRng.html and the HOWTO/ directory in the distribution The software may be obtained from ftp://ftp.astart.com/pub/LPRng (Main site) Mirrors: ftp://ftp.mono.org/pub/LPRng (UK) ftp://ftp.iona.ie/pub/plp/LPRng (IE) ftp://ftp.cs.umn.edu/pub/LPRng (US) ftp://gwynne.cs.ualberta.ca/pub/LPRng (Canada) ftp://ftp.math.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/pub/os/unix/utils/plp/LPRng (DE) ftp://ftp.uni-paderborn.de/pub/unix/printer/plp/LPRng (DE) ftp://ftp.zod.wau.nl/pub/mirror/plp/LPRng (AU/NZ) ftp://ftp.lps.ens.fr/pub/software/plp/LPRng (FR) To join the LPRng mailing list, please send mail to lprng-request@iona.ie with the word 'subscribe' in the BODY From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 19:51:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA15416 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 19:51:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (ala-ca34-45.ix.netcom.com [207.93.143.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA15162 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 19:46:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.8.8/8.6.9) id TAA04537; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 19:46:29 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 19:46:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199801100346.TAA04537@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: tlambert@primenet.com CC: jamie@itribe.net, jdevale@ece.cmu.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199801092242.PAA00305@usr04.primenet.com> (message from Terry Lambert on Fri, 9 Jan 1998 22:42:55 +0000 (GMT)) Subject: Re: FreeBSD Netcards From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk * > > Thus when her/his program aborts * > > catastrophically, they debug it, and feel stupid that they did something * > > like pass NULL to atoi (which actually causes an abort in freeBSD). The * > > linux users, on the other hand, can't figure it out, or bitch and whine, * > > and as a result, the system call is fixed to return an error code instead * > > of an abort. Since you have to know about these bugs to fix them, it * > > seems likely that freeBSD users/programmers just do fewer stupid things. More like it's easier to debug a program if you get a seg fault. Run it in gdb, and it will immediately tell you where it died. Go up one function, and you get the place that's passing NULL to atoi(). If atoi() prints and error message but returns anyway, the program may die much later in some other rather obscure place. Note that as far as the user is concerened, there is no difference in functionality if the program is badly written. The program doesn't work if it either (1) doesn't make sure it doesn't pass to NULL (works for both any system) or (2) check the return value of atoi() and do error recovery (works for Linux). Personally, I think one way to do it right is enough. * 1) Map a zero filled page to page zero. This causes the NULL * to be treated, incorrectly, as a NULL valued string instead * of a NULL. A process which is still running can be examined * via /proc for the address space mappings to see if it has * triggered the page 0 mapping. What the bleep is a "NULL valued string"? Are you aware that the so-called NULL pointer (or rather "0 in a pointer context") is not necessarily equal to a bit string of all zero's? (What was that example of this not being true, hmm, was it a PDP-11?) * This is the default behaviour. It is default because of the * large volume of badly written code which depended on the * Null dereference being treated as a NULL valued string, and * the fact that, historically, page zero was mapped and the * magic number was such that, though it was not a NULL valued * string, you were unlikely to get a match between what was at * offset zero to the first occurance of a NULL byte, and whatever * string you were trying to compare with strcmp, etc.. The * "atoi problem" was such that the magic number did not include * a digit before the terminating 0, and thus atoi of NULL returned * zero. Oh, you mean an empty string? Oh, ok. That has nothing to do with NULL though. (And there is no such thing as "NULL byte"...try "null character' instead.) Satsohi From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 19:56:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA15729 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 19:56:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA15717 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 19:56:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xqrpy-0000iQ-00; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 19:43:54 -0800 Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 19:43:47 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: dennis cc: Jamie Bowden , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Netcards In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980109173418.00e5be40@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, dennis wrote: > Just look in raw_usrreq(). the default case is a panic. Oh well, your X server could screw up and crash your system too (using priviledged i/o), except you could lose data too because chances are it will be a hard lock and filesystems will not be unmounted. ... > > Another tangent. Panics have little to do with application errors that > >were described in the original message. In fact there was no mention of > >panics at all. > > You were talking about inappropriate handling of exception conditions, > which seems > to be a parallel. Perhaps. Applications should be taking care of their own exception handling. Calling atoi with a NULL is silly, and would only come from a really broken application. The complaint was that the application ABORTed. On second thought, that is probably much better than an error message, as the abort will give you a core which you can use to fix the application. I think that is good idea. > db Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 21:55:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA23098 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 21:55:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mutara.noc.erols.net (gjp@mutara.noc.erols.net [207.172.25.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA23084 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 21:55:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gjp@mutara.noc.erols.net) Received: (from gjp@localhost) by mutara.noc.erols.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id AAA01049; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:55:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:55:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199801100555.AAA01049@mutara.noc.erols.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.8 References: From: gjp@erols.com (Gary Palmer) Subject: Re: How are people handling lots of accounts? X-Original-Newsgroups: lists.freebsd.hackers To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In article , mrcpu@cdsnet.net (Jaye Mathisen) writes: > Is there anything that can be done to speed this up? Changing the > password isn't too bad, only about 30 seconds, but adding takes forever. Use CDB instead of Berkeley DB. A competent programmer could do this in less than a day. You could probably rebuild a 50,000 user password file in less than a minute. Unfortunately, single-user password changes will need to be un-done and the entire file rebuilt, rather than the optimization in passwd/pwd_mkdb which doesn't rebuild the file for a single user change. (Unless you hack CDB to allow the data to be changed without the key being changed .. since the data (the password) will be the same length, in theory, its possible) Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 22:40:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA25922 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 22:40:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA25914 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 22:40:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (ppp-25.ts-4.nyc.idt.net [169.132.97.97]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA04614 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 02:41:34 GMT Message-Id: <199801100241.CAA04614@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: Subject: fix for lost cursor. Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 01:37:34 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk (answering my own question) this is dumb, but if you lose your cursor because of X and you are using syscons try: vidcontrol -c destructive -or- vidcontrol -c blinking it isn't as cool as the regular cursor... but it works. -Alfred From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 23:01:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA27135 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:01:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (ala-ca34-45.ix.netcom.com [207.93.143.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA27106; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:00:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.8.8/8.6.9) id XAA06618; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:00:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:00:36 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199801100700.XAA06618@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: albast@xs4all.nl CC: scsi@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199801100015.BAA14850@xs2.xs4all.nl> (message from albast on Sat, 10 Jan 1998 01:15:29 +0100 (MET)) Subject: Re: Any help greatly appreciated From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk * Now there is a problem concerning a quantum SCSI disk, namely a * "QUANTUM FIREBALL_TM1080S" * * This is supposed to be a 2.1 gig drive which worries me because I thought * it was supposed to show 2110 instead of 1080.. but I have to rely on * what the remote company (I'm not a USA redident) says * (searching the quantum site doesn't clearly give information regarding this) You need to look in the "archive" section. http://www.quantum.com/products/archive/fireball540/ It says the TM1080S is a 1GB drive with SCSI interface. * They've informed me the drive shows: * "sd1(NCR0:1:0): NOT READY asc:4,d5 Vendor Specific ASCQ, FALIURE" * and then later on: * "sd1: could not get size" Sorry, can't help you on that one. Sounds very much like the drive died though. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jan 9 23:59:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA05500 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:59:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from TomQNX.tomqnx.com (ott-pm6-27.comnet.ca [206.75.140.187]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA05459 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:59:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@tomqnx.com) Received: by TomQNX.tomqnx.com (Smail3.2 #1) id m0xqvog-00080TC; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 02:58:50 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: From: tom@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance at home) Subject: lib warning To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 02:58:50 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I just found out the hard way that there is a quirk that will bite you if, like me, you have been updating existing systems for a while. Apparently, there are a few library modules that have regressed from .so versions to .a versions. It seems that the linker will always link in the older .so version if one exists at link time. This happened on my system with libcompat.a and a couple of gcc libraries. I only discovered it when I compiled a program using the ftok function which was not present in the older .so version of the libraries. It was a puzzle to figure out why the link failed. I recommend that you scan the dates on your libraries and remove all .so versions where there is a newer .a version as a safety precaution. You might have to relink certain other programs that used the wrong (outdated) library... Regards, Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 00:07:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA07085 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:07:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.cylink.net (gatekeeper.cylink.com.cy [194.42.128.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA07053 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:07:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Andreas.Engel@cylink.net) Received: from cylink.net (verpissdic@CyBaer.Nicosia.CY.GalaxyNet.ORG.harr.harr.harr.bofh.com.cy [194.42.135.84]) by gatekeeper.cylink.net (8.8.7/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA25576 ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:07:13 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <34B71D48.660B8CB3@cylink.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:03:36 +0300 From: Andreas Engel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fxp0 problem References: <199801100235.SAA12684@implode.root.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk i got the same problem in 2.2.5 .... anyway... i need to use 2.2.2 because of another driver ... is it possible to use the current driver in 2.2.2 without getting this problem and what is the advantage of the new driver ... i now some unnice effects net.inet.ip.intr_queue_drops: 19418 <--------- and i hope i can solve this problem. Thank You for listening, Andreas Engel =) David Greenman wrote: > > > I seem to be recieving a very strange network error... It doesn't seem > >to effect the network at all but it does come up every once and a while: > > > >fxp0: warning: unsupported PHY, type=7,addr=1 > > > >Something to that sort. > > > >Any suggestions would be great thanks. > > This indicates that you have an older version of the device driver that > doesn't have support for the i82555 PHY chip that Intel is using on later > rev cards. The problem will go away if you upgrade to 2.2.5 or -current. > > -DG > > David Greenman > Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 00:51:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA09336 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:51:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA09332 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:51:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.8/CET-v2.2) with SMTP id IAA17971; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 08:50:43 GMT Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 17:50:42 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Joerg Micheel cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Carryable PC chassis In-Reply-To: <199801090318.LAA23087@iti.gov.sg> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Maybe you can get some ideas from these interesting people: http://lcs.www.media.mit.edu/projects/wearables/ On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Joerg Micheel wrote: > Hi, > > for project purposes involving PCI-based cards we'd like to > assemble a carryable version of a PC. A notebook won't do the job. > There are some standard chassis out there with TFT display, keyboard > and mouse built-in, but I have no idea of vendors (the Tekelec ATM tester > is build into such a thing). > > Does anyone have ideas/pointers towards manufacturers or resellers > of these boxes ? > > Thanks! > Joerg > -- michaelh@cet.co.jp http://www.cet.co.jp CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F 2-5-12, Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku, Tokyo 105 Japan Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 01:14:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA11050 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 01:14:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA11004 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 01:13:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.8/CET-v2.2) with SMTP id JAA18048; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:13:07 GMT Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 18:13:07 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Jamie Bowden cc: John Peter DeVale , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Netcards In-Reply-To: <199801091427.JAA07552@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I'm firmly in the camp that correctness is a higher priority than robustness. A user process should be terminated quickly when it does something wrong. This ends up giving us far higher quality code than having the kernel sweeping possibly insidious bugs under the carpet. These include NULL value errors and double FREEs. I agree with your later statements that the kernel should be protected from crashing from junk values going into system calls. Regards, Mike Hancock -- michaelh@cet.co.jp http://www.cet.co.jp CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F 2-5-12, Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku, Tokyo 105 Japan Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 01:43:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA13564 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 01:43:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (dynamic49.pm01.san-mateo.best.com [205.149.174.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA13551 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 01:43:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id BAA01074; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 01:43:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19980110014315.33527@mooseriver.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 01:43:15 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Patch to calendar.judaic Reply-To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Enclosed is a patch to bring calendar.judaic current with the common calendar. Mike Pritchard did the last revision but he seems to have dropped off. The person who reviews this patch should be famillular with the Judaic calendar and Hebrew to English trasliterations. Thanks Josef ------------------ENCLOSED-------------------ENCLOSED---------------------- *** /usr/src/usr.bin/calendar/calendars/calendar.judaic Mon Feb 24 17:57:43 1997 --- calendar.judaic Sat Jan 10 01:26:15 1998 *************** *** 1,41 **** /* * Judaic * ! * $Id: calendar.judaic,v 1.2.2.1 1997/02/25 01:57:43 mpp Exp $ */ #ifndef _calendar_judaic_ #define _calendar_judaic_ ! 03/08* Fast of Esther (Battle of Purim; 1 day before Purim; fast day) ! 03/11* Purim (Feast of Lots; 30 days before Pesach) ! 03/12* Purim (Feast of Lots) ! 04/10* Pesach (First Day of Passover; sabbatical) ! 04/11* Pesach (sabbatical) ! 04/16* Pesach (sabbatical) ! 04/17* Pesach (Last Day of Passover; 8th day of Pesach; sabbatical) ! 04/30* Yom HaAtzmaut (Israel Independence Day) ! 05/13* Lag Ba`omer (Commemoration of the Great Rebellion) ! 05/22* Yom Yerushalayim (Reunification of Jerusalem) ! 05/30* Shavuos (Festival of Weeks; 50 days after Pesach; sabbatical) ! 05/31* Shavuos (Festival of Weeks; sabbatical) ! 07/10* Fast of Shiv'a Asar B'Tammuz (Romans breach Wall of Jerusalem; ! fast day) ! 07/31* Fast of Tish'a B'Av (Babylon/Rome destroys Holy Temple; fast day) ! 09/20* First Day of Rosh Hashanah (Jewish Lunar New Year; 5741 == 1980; ! sabbatical) ! 09/21* Rosh Hashanah (sabbatical) ! 09/23* Fast of Gedalya (Murder of Gedalya and subsequent Exile; 1 day ! after Rosh Hashanah; fast day) ! 09/29* Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement; 9 days after Rosh Hashanah; ! sabbatical, fast day) ! 10/04* Succos (Festival of Tabernacles; 14 days after Rosh Hashanah; ! sabbatical) ! 10/05* Succos (sabbatical) ! 10/10* Hoshanah Rabba (7th day of Succos) ! 10/11* Shmini Atzeres (8th Day of Gathering; 1 day after Succos; sabbatical) ! 10/12* Shmini Atzeres/Simchas Torah (Rejoicing of the Law; sabbatical) ! 12/12* First Day of Chanukah ! 12/27* Fast of Asara B'Tevet (Babylonians put siege on Jerusalem; fast day) #endif /* !_calendar_judaic_ */ --- 1,142 ---- /* * Judaic * ! * $Id: calendar.judaic,v 1.4 1998/01/10 09:26:14 jgrosch Exp $ */ #ifndef _calendar_judaic_ #define _calendar_judaic_ ! 01/03* Parashat Va-Yiggah ! 01/08* Fast of Tevet ! 01/10* Parashat Va-Yehi ! 01/17* Parashat Shemot ! 01/24* Parashat Va-Era ! 01/24* Shabbat Mevarekhim ! 01/28* Rosh Chodesh Shevat (Beginning of the month of Shevat) ! 01/31* Parashat Bo ! 02/07* Parashat Be-Shallah ! 02/07* Shabbat Shirah ! 02/11* Tu bi-Shevat ! 02/14* Parashat Yitro ! 02/21* Parashat Mishpatim ! 02/21* Shekalim ! 02/21* Shabbat Mevarekhim ! 02/27* Rosh Chodesh Adar (Beginning of the month of Adar) ! 02/27* Be happy, It's Adar ! ! 02/28* Parashat Terumah ! 03/07* Parashat Tezavveh ! 03/07* Zaklor ! 03/11* Fast of Esther (Battle of Purim; 1 day before Purim; fast day) ! 03/12* Purim (Feast of Lots; 30 days before Pesach) ! 03/13* Shushan Purim ! 03/14* Parashat Ki Tissa ! 03/21* Parashat Va-Yakhel/Pekudei ! 03/21* Parah ! 03/21* Shabbat Mevarekhim ! 03/28* Parashat Va-Yikra ! 03/28* Rosh Chodesh Nisan (Beginning of the month of Nisan) ! 04/04* Parashat Zav ! 04/04* Shabbat ha-Gadol ! 04/10* Fast of the First born ! 04/11* Pesach (First Day of Passover; sabbatical) ! 04/12* Pesach (Second Day of Passover; sabbatical) ! 04/12* Sefirat ha-Omer begins (Counting of the Omer) ! 04/18* Pesach (Last Day of Passover; 8th day of Pesach; sabbatical) ! 04/18* Yizkor ! 04/23* Yom ha-Sho'ah (Remembrance of the Holocaust) ! 04/25* Parashat Shemini ! 04/25* Shabbat Mevarekhim ! 04/27* Rosh Chodesh Iyar (Beginning of the month of Iyar) ! 04/16* Pesach (sabbatical) ! 04/30* Yom ha-Atzmaut (Israel Independence Day) ! 05/02* Parashat Tazria/Mezora ! 05/09* Parashat Aharei Mot/Kedoshim ! 05/09* Shabbat Mevarekhim ! 05/14* Lag Ba`omer (Commemoration of the Great Rebellion) ! 05/16* Parashat Emor ! 05/23* Parashat Be-Har/Be-Hukkotai ! 05/24* Yom Yerushalayim (Reunification of Jerusalem) ! 05/26* Rosh Chodesh Sivan (Beginning of the month of Sivan) ! 05/30* Parashat Be-Midbar ! 05/31* Shavuos (Festival of Weeks; 50 days after Pesach; sabbatical) ! 06/01* Shavuos (Festival of Weeks; sabbatical) ! 06/06* Parashat Naso ! 06/13* Parashat Be-Ha'alotkha ! 06/20* Parashat Shelah ! 06/20* Shabbat Mevarekhim ! 06/25* Rosh Chodesh Tammuz (Beginning of the month of Tammuz) ! 06/27* Parashat Korah ! 07/04* Parashat Hukkat ! 07/11* Parashat Balak ! 07/12* Fast of Shiv'a Asar B'Tammuz (Romans breach Wall of Jerusalem; ! fast day) ! 07/18* Parashat Pinhas ! 07/18* Shabbat Mevarekhim ! 07/24* Rosh Chodesh Av (Beginning of the month of Av) ! 07/25* Parashat Mattot/Masei ! 08/01* Parashat Devarim ! 08/01* Shabbat Hazon ! 08/02* Fast of Tish'a B'Av (Babylon/Rome destroys Holy Temple; fast day) ! 08/08* Parashat Va-Ethannan ! 08/08* Shabbat Nahamu ! 08/15* Parashat Ekev ! 08/15 Shabbat Mevarekhim ! 08/22* Parashat Re'eh ! 08/23* Rosh Chodesh Elul (Beginning of the month of Elul) ! 08/23* First sounding of the Shofar ! 08/29* Parashat Shofetim ! 09/05* Parashat Ki Teze ! 09/12* Parashat Ki Tavo ! 09/19* Parashat Nizzavim ! 09/20* Erev Rosh ha-Shanah (Jewish Lunar New Year; 5759; sabbatical) ! 09/21* First Day of Rosh ha-Shanah (Jewish Lunar New Year; 5759; sabbatical) ! 09/21* Rosh Chodesh Tishri (Beginning of the month of Tishri) ! 09/23* Fast of Gedalya (Murder of Gedalya and subsequent Exile; 1 day ! after Rosh Hashanah; fast day) ! 09/26* Parashat Va-Yelekh ! 09/29* Erev Yom Kippur ! 09/30* Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement; 9 days after Rosh Hashanah; ! sabbatical, fast day) ! 10/03* Parashat Ha'azinu ! 10/05* Succot (Festival of Tabernacles; 14 days after Rosh Hashanah; ! sabbatical) ! 10/06* Succot (sabbatical) ! 10/07* Hol ha-Mo'ed ! 10/08* Hol ha-Mo'ed ! 10/09* Hol ha-Mo'ed ! 10/10* Hol ha-Mo'ed ! 10/11* Hoshana Rabba ! 10/12* Shmini Atzeres (8th Day of Gathering; 1 day after Succos; sabbatical) ! 10/13* Shmini Atzeres/Simchas Torah (Rejoicing of the Law; sabbatical) ! 10/13* Yizkor ! 10/17* Parashat Bereshit ! 10/17* Shabbat Mevarekhim ! 10/21* Rosh Chodesh Heshvan (Beginning of the month of Heshvan) ! 10/24* Parashat No'ah ! 10/31* Parashat Lekh Lekha ! 10/10* Hoshanah Rabba (7th day of Succos) ! 11/07* Parashat Va-Yera ! 11/14* Parashat Hayyei Sarah ! 11/14* Shabbat Mevarekhim ! 11/20* Rosh Chodesh Kislev (Beginning of the month of Kislev) ! 11/21* Parashat Toledot ! 11/28* Parashat Va-Yeze ! 12/05* Parashat Va-Yishlah ! 12/12* Parashat Va-Yeshev ! 12/12* Shabbat Mevarekhim ! 12/13* Erev Hanukkah ! 12/14* Hanukkah ! 12/15* Hanukkah ! 12/16* Hanukkah ! 12/17* Hanukkah ! 12/18* Hanukkah ! 12/19* Hanukkah ! 12/20* Hanukkah ! 12/21* Hanukkah ! 12/19* Parashat Mi-Kez ! 12/20* Rosh Chodesh Tevet (Beginning of the month of Tevet) ! 12/26* Parashat Va-Yiggash ! #endif /* !_calendar_judaic_ */ ------------------ENCLOSED-------------------ENCLOSED---------------------- -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.5 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 03:03:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA21038 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 03:03:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pcadm1.tversu.ru (pcadm1.tversu.ru [194.190.141.69]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA21023 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 03:03:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vadim@pcadm1.tversu.ru) Received: (from vadim@localhost) by pcadm1.tversu.ru (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA21771; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:53:06 +0300 (MSK) Message-ID: <19980110135305.53253@tversu.ru> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:53:05 +0300 From: Vadim Kolontsov To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Adding process ID listing to netstat References: <199801090654.AAA15353@detlev.UUCP> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <199801090654.AAA15353@detlev.UUCP>; from Joel Ray Holveck on Fri, Jan 09, 1998 at 12:54:13AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi, On Fri, Jan 09, 1998 at 12:54:13AM -0600, Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > Would it be useful to others to allow netstat to give the process ID's > that are using sockets? For me, yes Btw, when I played with kvm, I wrote a program (as programming example) which does almost the same - it walks in process table and prints TCP/UDP sockets, used by process (reinventing lsof, yes). Sample output: PID PROTOCOL/STATE LOCAL ADDRESS FOREIGN ADDRESS 20249 tcp:ESTABLISHED 194.190.141.69:23 194.190.141.45:1027 102 tcp:LISTEN *:23 *:* 80 udp *:9535 *:* In case that someone will be interested, I've included source in the letter. I've tried to make the code as clear as possible (please notify me if you'll find any bugs), to be useful for novice (can it be kinda "kvm tutorial"? :) Best regards, V. ----------------------------- psock.c ------------------------------------ /* psock -- shows a table containing pid, connection type, local/foreign addr Program must be run by root or be setgid to kmem This utility intended to be more programming example than every-day-tool. Copyright (C) 1997 Vadim Kolontsov Compilation: gcc -o psock psock.c -lkvm -g -DKERNEL -DTCPSTATES Tested under FreeBSD 2.2.2 TODO: filtering dup()'ed fds? */ #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { kvm_t *kd; struct kinfo_proc *kp; int cntproc, cntfiles, i, j, pid, fileslen; struct proc *kproc; struct file **files; struct file file; struct socket socket; struct filedesc filedesc; struct protosw protosw; struct tcpcb tcpcb; struct domain domain; struct inpcb inpcb; char *nlistf, *memf, *swapf, buf[256]; /* ------ Can be changed with command-line interface, for example ---- */ nlistf = memf = swapf = NULL; /* -------------- Initalize kvm ------------- */ kd = kvm_openfiles(nlistf, memf, swapf, O_RDONLY, buf); if (kd == 0) errx(1, buf); /* ------- Get table of all processes ------- */ if ((kp = kvm_getprocs(kd, KERN_PROC_ALL, 0, &cntproc)) == 0) errx(1, kvm_geterr(kd)); /* ----------- Walk by process... ----------- */ for (i = 0; i < cntproc; i++, kp++) { kproc = &(kp->kp_proc); pid = kproc->p_pid; /* ------- Read file descriptor table ------- */ if (kvm_read(kd, (u_long)kproc->p_fd, &filedesc, sizeof(struct filedesc)) <= 0) errx(1, kvm_geterr(kd)); /* ---------- Number of opened files -------- */ cntfiles = filedesc.fd_nfiles; fileslen = cntfiles*sizeof(struct file *); files = malloc(fileslen); /* ---- Read array of pointers to 'file' struct ------ */ if (kvm_read(kd, (u_long)filedesc.fd_ofiles, files, fileslen) <= 0) errx(1, kvm_geterr(kd)); /* ------------- Walk by files ----------------------- */ for (j = 0; j < cntfiles; j++, files++) { if (*files == NULL) continue; /* --------------- Load file ------------------------ */ if (kvm_read(kd, (u_long)*files, &file, sizeof(struct file)) <= 0) errx(1, kvm_geterr(kd)); if (file.f_type == DTYPE_SOCKET) { /* ------------- Load socket ------------------------ */ if (kvm_read(kd, (u_long)file.f_data, &socket, sizeof(struct socket)) <= 0) errx(1, kvm_geterr(kd)); /* ---------- Skip if has no references ------------ */ if (socket.so_state == 0) continue; /* ------ We need to deterimine socket family.. so let's load protosw --- */ if (kvm_read(kd, (u_long)socket.so_proto, &protosw, sizeof(struct protosw)) <= 0) errx(1, kvm_geterr(kd)); /* ----- Now loading domain... -------- */ if (kvm_read(kd, (u_long)protosw.pr_domain, &domain, sizeof(struct domain)) <= 0) errx(1, kvm_geterr(kd)); if (domain.dom_family != AF_INET) continue; /* ------- Voila, now we can print information ----------- */ printf("%-6d ", pid); if (socket.so_type == SOCK_DGRAM) printf("%-20s", "udp"); else if (socket.so_type == SOCK_STREAM) if (socket.so_pcb) { /* ------------- Loading protocol control block... ------------- */ if (kvm_read(kd, (u_long)socket.so_pcb, &inpcb, sizeof(struct inpcb)) <= 0) errx(1, kvm_geterr(kd)); /* ----------- Let's determine state of connection... ----------- */ if (kvm_read(kd, (u_long)inpcb.inp_ppcb, &tcpcb, sizeof(struct tcpcb)) <= 0) errx(1, kvm_geterr(kd)); printf("tcp:%-16s", tcpstates[tcpcb.t_state]); } else printf("%-20s", "tcp"); /* --------------- Printing local address & port ---------------- */ if (inpcb.inp_laddr.s_addr) sprintf(buf, "%s:", inet_ntoa(inpcb.inp_laddr)); else sprintf(buf, "*:"); if (inpcb.inp_lport) sprintf(&buf[strlen(buf)], "%d", ntohs(inpcb.inp_lport)); else sprintf(&buf[strlen(buf)], "*"); printf("%-20s\t\t", buf); /* ------------- Printing foreign address and port --------------- */ if (inpcb.inp_faddr.s_addr) printf("%s:", inet_ntoa(inpcb.inp_faddr)); else printf("*:"); if (inpcb.inp_fport) printf("%d\n", ntohs(inpcb.inp_fport)); else printf("*\n"); } } } kvm_close(kd); } ----------------------------- cut here ----------------------------------- -- Vadim Kolontsov Tver Internet Center NOC From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 03:24:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA22119 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 03:24:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA22111 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 03:24:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.8/CET-v2.2) with SMTP id LAA18384; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:23:34 GMT Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:23:34 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Tim Tsai cc: David Kelly , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: GPS for xntpd Stratum 1 servers In-Reply-To: <19980108232535.39313@futuresouth.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Tim Tsai wrote: > practical nowadays [in Mississippi we easily get 8-10 satellites in clear > view] even if you only have a clear view of the sky on one side of the > building. If you can extend a small pole (say 3 feet) out the window > then it would be more than enough. I've stuck GPS antenna mounted on a > broom stick out of hotel windows enough times to know this works. :-) We wouldn't be able to get away with that here. No one opens windows in these skyscrapers unless it's an emergency and a crane is outside waiting to hoist people away. Regarding cost, it's really not the cost of the ethernet or fiber. It's the cost of using the building owner's approved cable laying companies provided we can get permission to even run anything to the roof from the 15th floor. The GBS is something that would have been cool and superb accuracy really isn't necessary for the application, just reasonable accuracy and good consistency. I found out that the Cisco 7000 in that office has a very good clock, so we'll just hit enter on the tone and go from there. Regards, Mike -- michaelh@cet.co.jp http://www.cet.co.jp CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F 2-5-12, Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku, Tokyo 105 Japan Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 03:32:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA22565 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 03:32:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (root@mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA22548 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 03:31:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gad@mlor.its.rpi.edu) Received: from mlor.its.rpi.edu (mlor.its.rpi.edu [128.113.24.92]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with SMTP id GAA24756 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 06:31:50 -0500 Received: by mlor.its.rpi.edu (NX5.67f2/NX3.0M) id AA28463; Sat, 10 Jan 98 07:12:34 -0500 Message-Id: <9801101212.AA28463@mlor.its.rpi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Garance A Drosehn Date: Sat, 10 Jan 98 07:12:31 -0500 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Netcards Reply-To: gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu References: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id DAA22549 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Michael Hancock wrote: > I'm firmly in the camp that correctness is a higher priority than > robustness. > > A user process should be terminated quickly when it does something > wrong. This ends up giving us far higher quality code than having > the kernel sweeping possibly insidious bugs under the carpet. > These include NULL value errors and double FREEs. I am too. We used a similar strategy of generating a page-fault on MTS (what we used for a mainframe operating system) for page-zero references. We also did other things which would cause aborts or clearly-incorrect-results for stupid programming errors. We often got complaints from people bringing programs from other operating systems. I've seen many a program which "worked" on some other operating system, but only if you will accept that "quietly producing absolutely incorrect results" is "working". In some cases, those absolutely incorrect results on other operating systems had already been used in real-world situations (such as, say, building a bridge over a river(*)), and believe you me I'd very much rather the program had aborted immediately and shot the programmer instead of "working" by the above definition. Of course, it's also fine if it aborts immediately and doesn't shoot the programmer. I just don't want to have to worry every time I drive over a bridge. (* - this really happened. somewhere in connecticut there is a bridge which was built based on unquestionably incorrect results from one such program. Now, maybe that bridge is fine and dandy, and maybe it will even last longer than the pyramids in Egypt, but for my money I would much rather that correct results had been available for the decisions made when building that bridge. This probably about twenty years ago now, so it's also possible the bridge has already fallen down...) --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer (MIME & NeXTmail capable) Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy NY USA From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 04:01:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA26001 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 04:01:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from love.MCCP.com (love.MCCP.com [206.86.92.190]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA25976 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 04:01:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gena@love.MCCP.com) Received: (from gena@localhost) by love.MCCP.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) id EAA03942 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 04:01:14 -0800 (PST) From: Gena Gulchin Message-Id: <199801101201.EAA03942@love.MCCP.com> Subject: au files To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 04:01:14 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hello, I have a bunch of AU (SUN audio) files. Is there a sound player that can play them? -- Gena From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 04:21:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA26861 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 04:21:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (d182-89.uoregon.edu [128.223.182.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA26850 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 04:21:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA07542; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 04:20:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19980110042057.03228@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 04:20:57 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Gena Gulchin Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: au files References: <199801101201.EAA03942@love.MCCP.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199801101201.EAA03942@love.MCCP.com>; from Gena Gulchin on Sat, Jan 10, 1998 at 04:01:14AM -0800 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Gena Gulchin scribbled this message on Jan 10: > I have a bunch of AU (SUN audio) files. > > Is there a sound player that can play them? yep... cp or cat... cp file /dev/audio -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 04:57:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA28770 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 04:57:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA28745 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 04:57:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.8.8/frmug-2.2/nospam) with UUCP id NAA01190; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:57:49 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.8/keltia-2.13/nospam) id NAA04003; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:13:50 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980110131350.51749@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:13:50 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: papowell@astart.com Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, desmo@bandwidth.org Subject: Re: LPRng and FreeBSD References: <199801100304.TAA05862@astart4.astart.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <199801100304.TAA05862@astart4.astart.com>; from papowell@astart.com on Fri, Jan 09, 1998 at 07:04:07PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#3963 AMD-K6 MMX @ 208 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk According to papowell@astart.com: > I am the developer of the LPRng print spooler software - a replacement > for the BSD LPR spooler. I would like to contact the BSD distribution > group and recommend that they replace their BSD LPR distribution with > LPRng, or offer it as an alternative. I'm not speaking for "core" but LPRng is already in the ports section of FreeBSD and has been for a while. # New ports collection makefile for: LPRng # Version required: 3.3.3 # Date created: 2 Apr 1997 # Whom: desmo@bandwidth.org As you see it is an old one nd it will have to be upgraded. I've Cc:'ed the maintainer (Hi desmo!). > In the very near future I will also be providing a simple 'setup' > script for printcap generation. Nice! -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #2: Thu Jan 8 00:49:00 CET 1998 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 06:12:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA03530 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 06:12:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA03524; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 06:12:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id NAA09631; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:44:31 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199801101244.NAA09631@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: How do I DELAY() at boot time ? To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:44:31 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Suppose during the probe/attach routine for a device I have to wait for some time, what is the correct approach ? I am currently using DELAY() (this is in the audio driver, ad1848.c for what matters) and this seems not to have the desired effect. Since the same code is also used during regular operation, DELAY works fine there... should I do something like if (booting) do_something_to_spend_time(x); else DELAY(x) instead ? Thanks Luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 06:55:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA06765 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 06:55:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua (bcs-ts33.zcn.net [195.123.8.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA06655 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 06:54:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from serg@bcs3.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua) Received: from bcs3.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua (bcs3.bcs.zp.ua [195.123.10.73]) by relay1.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA03381; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:53:04 +0200 (EET) Received: (from serg@localhost) by bcs3.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA02481; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:54:19 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from serg) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:54:19 +0200 (EET) From: Sergey Shkonda Message-Id: <199801101454.QAA02481@bcs3.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua> To: "Richard M. Neswold" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: K6 Problems... Newsgroups: bcs.Gated.FreeBSD-Hardware In-Reply-To: User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-971123 (UNIX) (FreeBSD/2.2.5-STABLE (i386)) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In article you wrote: > Hello, > I recently upgraded my system to a K6/166. I booted with /kernel.GENERIC > so that I could recompile my kernel with "i586_CPU" defined. The newly > compiled kernel only booted as far as the probe messages. No error > messages or panics occurred; the system just sat there after probing the > hardware. > I rebooted to GENERIC again and tried a debugging kernel. It stopped at > the same point in the booting process. Hitting the hot key brought me into > the debugger. Since I'm a complete novice at using the kernel debugger, > this route wasn't too enlightening. > I also tried recompiling a new GENERIC kernel (the one I was using was > from last October.) The new GENERIC kernel stopped at the same point, too. > I've tried compiling kernels with various drivers removed. I've disabled > drivers from the visual config editor. Nothing lets a 2.2.5 kernel boot > (my working GENERIC kernel is 2.2.2-ish -- maybe even 2.2.1-ish!) > Windows95 works an this hardware, as does the old GENERIC kernel. > I have a K6 (stepping 9741 (?)), 64MB of SDRAM, Intel-TX chipset. options AUTO_EOI_1 and AUTO_EOI_2 will be disabled. > Any help or suggestions would be appreciated! > Rich > ======================================================================== > Richard Neswold | rneswold@mcs.net > Home Page 'http://www.mcs.net/~rneswold/' | > PGP Key 'finger rneswold@mcs.net' | -- Sergey Shkonda (serg@bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 07:25:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA10484 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 07:25:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.id.net (mail.id.net [199.125.1.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA10472; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 07:25:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rls@mail.id.net) Received: from server.id.net (server.id.net [199.125.2.20]) by mail.id.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA24852; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:36:00 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Shady Received: (from rls@localhost) by server.id.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA06146; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:26:17 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199801101526.KAA06146@server.id.net> Subject: ** SDL RISCom/N2 & Frame Relay ** To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:26:17 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk To whom it may concern; I *REALLY* need to get frame relay working under AT LEAST 2.2.x or even 3.0-SNAP. I seen the SDL wrote a driver awhile ago to work under 2.1, and I've tried (for about 30 minutes) to get it to work under 3.0 but there appears to be too many changes to various system files for me to get it to work easily. Not to mention, I'm *SURE* someone else has already looked into this, as the if_sr.c driver makes mention to it in numerous places. Please, please, please let me know what the current status of this project is. --> SEND E-MAIL TO: rls@mail.id.net, I am NOT on this list anymore. -- Rob === _/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/ Innovative Data Services, Inc. Serving South-Eastern Michigan Internet Service Provider / Hardware Sales / Consulting Services Voice: (248)855-0404 / Fax: (248)855-3268 / Web: http://www.id.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 07:53:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA12073 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 07:53:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from etinc.com ([207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA12016; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 07:53:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys.etinc.com ([207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA16403; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:55:19 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980110105641.00e2fcb0@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:56:42 -0500 To: Robert Shady , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG From: dennis Subject: Re: ** SDL RISCom/N2 & Frame Relay ** Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk At 10:26 AM 1/10/98 -0500, Robert Shady wrote: >To whom it may concern; > > I *REALLY* need to get frame relay working under AT LEAST 2.2.x or >even 3.0-SNAP. I seen the SDL wrote a driver awhile ago to work under >2.1, and I've tried (for about 30 minutes) to get it to work under 3.0 >but there appears to be too many changes to various system files for me >to get it to work easily. Not to mention, I'm *SURE* someone else has >already looked into this, as the if_sr.c driver makes mention to it in >numerous places. Please, please, please let me know what the current >status of this project is. > >--> SEND E-MAIL TO: rls@mail.id.net, I am NOT on this list anymore. If you REALLY need it...you know where to find us. :-) db Emerging Technologies, Inc. www.etinc.com ISA and PCI Sync Cards for FreeBSD, LINUX and BSD/OS ET/BWMGR Bandwidth Manager From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 09:28:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA20672 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:28:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA20582 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:28:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de) Received: from panke.panke.de (anonymous232.ppp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.232]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.8.6/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA17736; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 18:23:17 +0100 (MET) Received: (from wosch@localhost) by panke.panke.de (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA00816; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 17:54:54 +0100 (MET) To: Jaye Mathisen Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How are people handling lots of accounts? References: From: Wolfram Schneider Date: 10 Jan 1998 17:54:52 +0100 In-Reply-To: Jaye Mathisen's message of Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:17:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Lines: 21 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Jaye Mathisen writes: > With 50000 test accounts in master.passwd, it takes something like 10 > minutes to rebuild the .db files, completely preventing anybody else from > doing anything password related. > > Is there anything that can be done to speed this up? Changing the > password isn't too bad, only about 30 seconds, but adding takes forever. You can increase the database cache size from 4MB to a higher value in pwd_mkdb. See pwd_mkdb.c line 70. You must recompile pwd_mkdb for this change. Did you use the -u option? pwd_mkdb(8) -u username Only update the record for the specified user. Utilities that op- erate on a single user can use this option to avoid the overhead of rebuilding the entire database. -- Wolfram Schneider http://www.freebsd.org/~wosch/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 09:31:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA21042 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:31:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from onyx.atipa.com (user4954@ns.atipa.com [208.128.22.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA21033 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:31:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@atipa.com) Received: (qmail-queue invoked by uid 1018); 10 Jan 1998 17:38:19 -0000 Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:38:19 -0700 (MST) From: Atipa X-Sender: freebsd@dot.ishiboo.com To: Simon Shapiro cc: Terry Lambert , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, capriotti@geocities.com, tom@sdf.com Subject: Re: X based Free installation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk If it was on a CD, you got probably get a minimal live filesystem running XF86_VGA16 and use Tcl/Tk. It the VGA failed to initialize, fall back on the cons25 Tcl (or use ctk). That approach would not work for FTP or floppy installs, but may be useful to Walnut Creek. You could also set up a live filesystem over NFS to do the same, which would be pretty slick for multiple installs. Kevin On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Simon Shapiro wrote: > > On 09-Jan-98 Terry Lambert wrote: > >> BTW, you made a comment about Linux ease of installation. Which Linux? > > > > Any Linux for which the Linux camp is willing to send out a schmuck > > to endure the pain on your behalf is basically painless to install. > > > > It's topologically equivalent to having very, very good install tools. > > > > ;-). > > That's true. Or M$ install which has the option of calling the support > line (manned by non-M$ companies, many of them here in town), with your > favorite credit card. > > I did not find Debian installation better than FreeBSD. Worse if anything. > BTW, Slowlaris install is GUI driven and much worse than FreeBSD too. > > I think you should design the logic for a new install and follow that by a > small, useful GUI library. What was the name of the GUI layer on AT&T 3B1? > > > Also, I screwed up my otherwise beautiful example with a factual > > error: > > .... > > My point the pictograms are not always better than words still stands. > > ---------- > > > Sincerely Yours, > > Simon Shapiro > Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 10:02:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA25215 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:02:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (winter@sasami.jurai.net [207.31.78.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA25184 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:02:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA24238; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:18:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:18:40 -0500 (EST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Gary Palmer cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How are people handling lots of accounts? In-Reply-To: <199801100555.AAA01049@mutara.noc.erols.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Gary Palmer wrote: > (Unless you hack CDB to allow the data to be changed without the key > being changed .. since the data (the password) will be the same > length, in theory, its possible) Actually, doing the mods to CDB to make it deal with fixed length records would be fairly useful. You could update the entire data record (not the key) and have CDB pad the rest with \0s. Once you are to the point with having to deal with CDB you should really be using a real database to store the data and generating your CDB files from that. /* Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53 */ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 10:44:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA29006 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:44:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA28999 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:44:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id MAA12266; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:44:13 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id MAA10330; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:44:12 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980110124412.19068@mcs.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:44:12 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: Wolfram Schneider Cc: Jaye Mathisen , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How are people handling lots of accounts? References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: ; from Wolfram Schneider on Sat, Jan 10, 1998 at 05:54:52PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sat, Jan 10, 1998 at 05:54:52PM +0100, Wolfram Schneider wrote: > Jaye Mathisen writes: > > With 50000 test accounts in master.passwd, it takes something like 10 > > minutes to rebuild the .db files, completely preventing anybody else from > > doing anything password related. > > > > Is there anything that can be done to speed this up? Changing the > > password isn't too bad, only about 30 seconds, but adding takes forever. > > You can increase the database cache size from 4MB to a higher value in > pwd_mkdb. See pwd_mkdb.c line 70. You must recompile pwd_mkdb for this > change. > > Did you use the -u option? > pwd_mkdb(8) > -u username > Only update the record for the specified user. Utilities that op- > erate on a single user can use this option to avoid the overhead of > rebuilding the entire database. > > -- > Wolfram Schneider http://www.freebsd.org/~wosch/ We handled this problem (and I consider it a serious one) by replacing the entire authorization system with a DBMS-based package written in-house that uses encrypted data streams between the client and server. This was a serious pain in the ass (and done incorrectly or with insufficient redundancy screws you completely, as you then can't log in!) but its worth it - our management is now centralized. We still create "fallback" pwd.db and spwd.db files from that database and distribute them for the "emergency" case, but this is then a low-priority thing that can be done at the "background noise" level. For multi-machine environments you *have to* centralize things somehow, and NIS just isn't secure enough for an ISP environment. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 11:27:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA04350 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:27:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kai.nectar.com (kai.nectar.com [204.27.64.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA04323 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:27:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@kai.nectar.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by kai.nectar.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id NAA11423; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:26:51 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199801101926.NAA11423@kai.nectar.com> X-Authentication-Warning: kai.nectar.com: smap set sender to using -f Received: from localhost.communique.net(127.0.0.1) by kai.nectar.com via smap (V2.0) id xma011415; Sat, 10 Jan 98 13:26:33 -0600 From: Jacques Vidrine To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: Jaye Mathisen Subject: Re: How are people handling lots of accounts? In-reply-to: <19980110124412.19068@mcs.net> References: <19980110124412.19068@mcs.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:26:33 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Kerberos + Hesiod is also a good solution. Jacques Vidrine On 10 January 1998 at 12:44, Karl Denninger wrote: > On Sat, Jan 10, 1998 at 05:54:52PM +0100, Wolfram Schneider wrote: > > Jaye Mathisen writes: > > > With 50000 test accounts in master.passwd, it takes something like 10 > > > minutes to rebuild the .db files, completely preventing anybody else from > > > doing anything password related. > > > > > > Is there anything that can be done to speed this up? Changing the > > > password isn't too bad, only about 30 seconds, but adding takes forever. > > > > You can increase the database cache size from 4MB to a higher value in > > pwd_mkdb. See pwd_mkdb.c line 70. You must recompile pwd_mkdb for this > > change. > > > > Did you use the -u option? > > pwd_mkdb(8) > > -u username > > Only update the record for the specified user. Utilities that o p- > > erate on a single user can use this option to avoid the overhead of > > rebuilding the entire database. > > > > -- > > Wolfram Schneider http://www.freebsd.org/~wosch/ > > We handled this problem (and I consider it a serious one) by replacing the > entire authorization system with a DBMS-based package written in-house that > uses encrypted data streams between the client and server. > > This was a serious pain in the ass (and done incorrectly or with > insufficient redundancy screws you completely, as you then can't log in!) > but its worth it - our management is now centralized. We still create > "fallback" pwd.db and spwd.db files from that database and distribute them > for the "emergency" case, but this is then a low-priority thing that can be > done at the "background noise" level. > > For multi-machine environments you *have to* centralize things somehow, and > NIS just isn't secure enough for an ISP environment. > > -- > -- > Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin > http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service > | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems > Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS > Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 11:47:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA06574 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:47:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.its.rpi.edu (dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu [128.113.161.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06566 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:47:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Received: from localhost (dec@localhost) by phoenix.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA11612; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 14:46:59 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 14:46:59 -0500 (EST) From: "David E. Cross" To: Karl Denninger cc: Wolfram Schneider , Jaye Mathisen , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How are people handling lots of accounts? In-Reply-To: <19980110124412.19068@mcs.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Karl Denninger wrote: > For multi-machine environments you *have to* centralize things somehow, and > NIS just isn't secure enough for an ISP environment. Kerberos -- David Cross UNIX Systems Administrator GE Corporate R&D From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 12:54:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA11392 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:54:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hotmail.com ([207.82.251.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA11334 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:52:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rafareta@hotmail.com) Received: (qmail 28895 invoked by uid 0); 10 Jan 1998 20:51:57 -0000 Message-ID: <19980110205157.28894.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 200.38.135.187 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:51:49 PST X-Originating-IP: [200.38.135.187] From: "RAfael Reta" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:51:49 PST Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I have installed vgetty in my FreeBSD3.0 box with a Motorola VoiceSURFR following all steeps in the Readme.Beginner but when I try to record my message, it doesn't work so I ran vm diagnostics getting some blinks at TR RD and SD led's and this in the vm.log # vm diagnostics cuaa1;sleep 200 * * Diagnostics for device /dev/cuaa1 * * vgetty experimental test release 0.7.3 / 10Aug97 * mgetty experimental test release 1.1.9-Aug17 * -- 01/07 14:04:47 vgetty: experimental test release 0.7.3 / 10Aug97 01/07 14:04:47 mgetty: experimental test release 1.1.9-Aug17 01/07 14:04:47 reading program vm configuration from config file /usr/local/etc/mgetty+sendfax/voice.conf 01/07 14:04:47 opening voice modem device 01/07 14:04:47 opened voice modem device /dev/cuaa1 01/07 14:04:47 reading port cuaa1 configuration from config file /usr/local/etc/mgetty+sendfax/voice.conf 01/07 14:04:47 detecting voice modem type 01/07 14:04:48 no voice modem detected: No such process My question is: Is this @#~½ modem good for voice? I know it don't work as FAx (is class I). Thanks RafaReta ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 19:14:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA00287 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:14:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA00250 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:14:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se) Received: (from karpen@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA03500; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 03:37:10 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from karpen) From: Mikael Karpberg Message-Id: <199801110237.DAA03500@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: make_device_driver.sh In-Reply-To: <19980107154653.65316@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> from John-Mark Gurney at "Jan 7, 98 03:46:53 pm" To: gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 03:37:09 +0100 (CET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk According to John-Mark Gurney: > soon, when I've completed the bus/device code, then this will be possible, > but at the same time, the current LKM system will be replaced with the > kld system, so there won't be any "special" handling of dynamicly loaded > modules, just special handling of brain-dead not upgraded devices that > don't support unloading.. I haven't really heard much about kld, or I have suppressed it. :-) Any info that you can give me (us?) on what it will be like? Will that allow us to do "load driver, probe, if not found - unload driver" stuff at boot time? So that all drivers in /drivers/ are loaded and probed, or something, which would make kernel recompile to add soundcard, etc, a mere memory, and be replaced by "cp"? :-) As I said, any info would be appreciated. Maybe points to where it's been said before? /Mikael From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 19:16:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA00509 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:16:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [194.77.0.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA00434 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:16:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id BAA10582; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 01:00:16 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id PAA04634; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 15:32:21 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19980110153220.58113@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 15:32:20 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: papowell@astart.com Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: LPRng and FreeBSD References: <199801100304.TAA05862@astart4.astart.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <199801100304.TAA05862@astart4.astart.com>; from papowell@astart.com on Fri, Jan 09, 1998 at 07:04:07PM -0800 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Fri, Jan 09, 1998 at 07:04:07PM -0800, papowell@astart.com wrote: > I am the developer of the LPRng print spooler software - a replacement > for the BSD LPR spooler. I would like to contact the BSD distribution > group and recommend that they replace their BSD LPR distribution with > LPRng, or offer it as an alternative. Thanks for information. Your package already is in the FreeBSD ports collection. So people can easily use your package if they like. -- Andreas Klemm powered by ,,symmetric multiprocessor FreeBSD'' From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 19:16:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA00596 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:16:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA00417 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:15:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA21796; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:51:40 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199801102151.NAA21796@implode.root.com> To: Andreas Engel cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fxp0 problem In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:03:36 +0300." <34B71D48.660B8CB3@cylink.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:51:40 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >i got the same problem in 2.2.5 Please be precise and careful when saying things like that. The 82555 PHY (type = 7) is supported in 2.2.5. If you are getting an "unsupported" message, then the "type=" portion will be different. I will need to know what it says precisely as well as which PHY chip you have on your card before I can fix it. > .... anyway... i need to use 2.2.2 >because of another driver ... is it possible to use the current driver >in 2.2.2 without getting this problem and what is the advantage of >the new driver ... i now some unnice effects > >net.inet.ip.intr_queue_drops: 19418 <--------- > >and i hope i can solve this problem. That's a different and unrelated problem. To fix that, change IFQ_MAXLEN defined in /sys/net/if.h to 128. A better solution needs to be thought-up for that, but this will suffice for now. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 19:20:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA11392 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:54:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hotmail.com ([207.82.251.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA11334 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:52:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rafareta@hotmail.com) Received: (qmail 28895 invoked by uid 0); 10 Jan 1998 20:51:57 -0000 Message-ID: <19980110205157.28894.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 200.38.135.187 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:51:49 PST X-Originating-IP: [200.38.135.187] From: "RAfael Reta" To: hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:51:49 PST Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have installed vgetty in my FreeBSD3.0 box with a Motorola VoiceSURFR following all steeps in the Readme.Beginner but when I try to record my message, it doesn't work so I ran vm diagnostics getting some blinks at TR RD and SD led's and this in the vm.log # vm diagnostics cuaa1;sleep 200 * * Diagnostics for device /dev/cuaa1 * * vgetty experimental test release 0.7.3 / 10Aug97 * mgetty experimental test release 1.1.9-Aug17 * -- 01/07 14:04:47 vgetty: experimental test release 0.7.3 / 10Aug97 01/07 14:04:47 mgetty: experimental test release 1.1.9-Aug17 01/07 14:04:47 reading program vm configuration from config file /usr/local/etc/mgetty+sendfax/voice.conf 01/07 14:04:47 opening voice modem device 01/07 14:04:47 opened voice modem device /dev/cuaa1 01/07 14:04:47 reading port cuaa1 configuration from config file /usr/local/etc/mgetty+sendfax/voice.conf 01/07 14:04:47 detecting voice modem type 01/07 14:04:48 no voice modem detected: No such process My question is: Is this @#~½ modem good for voice? I know it don't work as FAx (is class I). Thanks RafaReta ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 19:22:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA01573 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:22:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tbird.cc.bellcore.com (tbird.cc.bellcore.com [128.96.96.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA01545 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:22:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from khansen@njcc.com) Received: from monolith.bellcore.com by tbird.cc.bellcore.com with SMTP id AA05932 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sat, 10 Jan 1998 18:26:08 -0500 Received: from khansen.cc.bellcore.com by monolith.bellcore.com (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA04047; Sat, 10 Jan 98 18:21:41 EST Message-Id: <34B80293.407D@njcc.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 18:21:55 -0500 From: Ken Hansen Reply-To: khansen@njcc.com Organization: Dis X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Sergey Shkonda Cc: "Richard M. Neswold" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: K6 Problems... References: <199801101454.QAA02481@bcs3.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Doesn't the K6 present itself as a Super 486 - I know the K5 does... Just a thought... Ken khansen@njcc.com Sergey Shkonda wrote: > > In article you wrote: > > Hello, > > > I recently upgraded my system to a K6/166. I booted with /kernel.GENERIC > > so that I could recompile my kernel with "i586_CPU" defined. The newly > > compiled kernel only booted as far as the probe messages. No error > > messages or panics occurred; the system just sat there after probing the > > hardware. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 19:24:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA02033 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:24:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tbird.cc.bellcore.com (tbird.cc.bellcore.com [128.96.96.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA01642; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:22:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from khansen@njcc.com) Received: from monolith.bellcore.com by tbird.cc.bellcore.com with SMTP id AA05678 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Sat, 10 Jan 1998 18:05:59 -0500 Received: from khansen.cc.bellcore.com by monolith.bellcore.com (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA03754; Sat, 10 Jan 98 18:01:32 EST Message-Id: <34B7FDDA.740B@njcc.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 18:01:46 -0500 From: Ken Hansen Reply-To: khansen@njcc.com Organization: Dis X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Korsten Cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to install without a CD-ROM and without an existing installation References: <199801092336.AAA03543@smtp1.xs4all.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Peter, Have you got a network connection from the laptop to the internet? Why not try that... If not, do it over the phone, in the time you will spend trying to figure a way around this problem, it could be installing on your machine... I did a reasonable install on a 386 over 28K dial-up overnight, I was quite impressed with the speed. A minimal install to then connect to the internet using FreeBSD would probably be quite reasonable... Ken khansen@njcc.com Peter Korsten wrote: > > This question probably belongs only on 'questions', but my experience (from > the time that I read both lists) tells me that I get a faster answer from > 'hackers', and I'd really like to know the answer fast. > > I recently got a laptop from my new employer (BT) and want to install > FreeBSD 2.2.5 on the second partition. (People who remember me from earlier > occasions will laugh their heads off by now, but it's really handy with all > the Suns lying around at my job.) > > The trouble is, I don't have a CD-ROM. I do have an Internet connection, but > I don't really feel like downloading many megabytes over a 28k8 line. > Therefore, at my job I copied the files from the bin directory in the > 2.2.5-RELEASE tree, but those are Unix files. A copy of the CD can't be > found on the website (well, that figures) and you need those files if you > want to install from an MS-DOS file system. > > Though the installation floppy can read the MS-DOS file system, I can't do > that from the holographic shell and there aren't other means to access that > file system. To install the Unix files, I first need - right, a FreeBSD > installation. > > Is there a simple solution or should I just wait, buy the CD (whereever I > can spot it here in Amsterdam) or download it for a couple of hours? > > - Peter From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 19:37:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA04287 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:37:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomis.simon-shapiro.org ([206.190.143.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA04126 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:36:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@nomis.Simon-Shapiro.ORG) Received: (qmail 15999 invoked by uid 1000); 10 Jan 1998 23:35:02 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3-alpha-010198 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19980110014315.33527@mooseriver.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 15:35:02 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Josef Grosch Subject: RE: Patch to calendar.judaic Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On 10-Jan-98 Josef Grosch wrote: > Enclosed is a patch to bring calendar.judaic current with the common > calendar. Mike Pritchard did the last revision but he seems to have > dropped > off. The person who reviews this patch should be famillular with the > Judaic > calendar and Hebrew to English trasliterations. Few comments embedded (Yes, I do speak Hebrew :-) Generally, an ending Tav, is pronouced by Easter-European Jews as a soft `s', and by Israelie's as `t'. Historically, it was pronounced as a soft `th' more than either version. > > > Thanks > > Josef > > > ------------------ENCLOSED-------------------ENCLOSED--------------------- > - > *** /usr/src/usr.bin/calendar/calendars/calendar.judaic Mon Feb 24 > 17:57:43 1997 > --- calendar.judaic Sat Jan 10 01:26:15 1998 > *************** > *** 1,41 **** > /* > * Judaic > * > ! * $Id: calendar.judaic,v 1.2.2.1 1997/02/25 01:57:43 mpp Exp $ > */ > > #ifndef _calendar_judaic_ > #define _calendar_judaic_ > > ! 03/08* Fast of Esther (Battle of Purim; 1 day before Purim; fast day) > ! 03/11* Purim (Feast of Lots; 30 days before Pesach) > ! 03/12* Purim (Feast of Lots) > ! 04/10* Pesach (First Day of Passover; sabbatical) > ! 04/11* Pesach (sabbatical) > ! 04/16* Pesach (sabbatical) > ! 04/17* Pesach (Last Day of Passover; 8th day of Pesach; sabbatical) > ! 04/30* Yom HaAtzmaut (Israel Independence Day) > ! 05/13* Lag Ba`omer (Commemoration of the Great Rebellion) > ! 05/22* Yom Yerushalayim (Reunification of Jerusalem) > ! 05/30* Shavuos (Festival of Weeks; 50 days after Pesach; Shavuot sabbatical) > ! 05/31* Shavuos (Festival of Weeks; sabbatical) > ! 07/10* Fast of Shiv'a Asar B'Tammuz (Romans breach Wall of Jerusalem; > ! fast day) > ! 07/31* Fast of Tish'a B'Av (Babylon/Rome destroys Holy Temple; fast > day) > ! 09/20* First Day of Rosh Hashanah (Jewish Lunar New Year; 5741 == 1980; > ! sabbatical) > ! 09/21* Rosh Hashanah (sabbatical) > ! 09/23* Fast of Gedalya (Murder of Gedalya and subsequent Exile; 1 day > ! after Rosh Hashanah; fast day) > ! 09/29* Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement; 9 days after Rosh Hashanah; > ! sabbatical, fast day) > ! 10/04* Succos (Festival of Tabernacles; 14 days after Rosh Hashanah; Sucot > ! sabbatical) > ! 10/05* Succos (sabbatical) > ! 10/10* Hoshanah Rabba (7th day of Succos) > ! 10/11* Shmini Atzeres (8th Day of Gathering; 1 day after Succos; > sabbatical) Atzeret > ! 10/12* Shmini Atzeres/Simchas Torah (Rejoicing of the Law; sabbatical) > ! 12/12* First Day of Chanukah > ! 12/27* Fast of Asara B'Tevet (Babylonians put siege on Jerusalem; fast > day) > > #endif /* !_calendar_judaic_ */ > --- 1,142 ---- > /* > * Judaic > * > ! * $Id: calendar.judaic,v 1.4 1998/01/10 09:26:14 jgrosch Exp $ > */ > > #ifndef _calendar_judaic_ > #define _calendar_judaic_ > > ! 01/03* Parashat Va-Yiggah > ! 01/08* Fast of Tevet > ! 01/10* Parashat Va-Yehi > ! 01/17* Parashat Shemot > ! 01/24* Parashat Va-Era > ! 01/24* Shabbat Mevarekhim > ! 01/28* Rosh Chodesh Shevat (Beginning of the month of Shevat) > ! 01/31* Parashat Bo > ! 02/07* Parashat Be-Shallah > ! 02/07* Shabbat Shirah > ! 02/11* Tu bi-Shevat > ! 02/14* Parashat Yitro > ! 02/21* Parashat Mishpatim > ! 02/21* Shekalim > ! 02/21* Shabbat Mevarekhim > ! 02/27* Rosh Chodesh Adar (Beginning of the month of Adar) > ! 02/27* Be happy, It's Adar ! > ! 02/28* Parashat Terumah > ! 03/07* Parashat Tezavveh > ! 03/07* Zaklor > ! 03/11* Fast of Esther (Battle of Purim; 1 day before Purim; fast day) > ! 03/12* Purim (Feast of Lots; 30 days before Pesach) > ! 03/13* Shushan Purim > ! 03/14* Parashat Ki Tissa > ! 03/21* Parashat Va-Yakhel/Pekudei > ! 03/21* Parah > ! 03/21* Shabbat Mevarekhim > ! 03/28* Parashat Va-Yikra > ! 03/28* Rosh Chodesh Nisan (Beginning of the month of Nisan) > ! 04/04* Parashat Zav > ! 04/04* Shabbat ha-Gadol > ! 04/10* Fast of the First born > ! 04/11* Pesach (First Day of Passover; sabbatical) > ! 04/12* Pesach (Second Day of Passover; sabbatical) > ! 04/12* Sefirat ha-Omer begins (Counting of the Omer) > ! 04/18* Pesach (Last Day of Passover; 8th day of Pesach; sabbatical) > ! 04/18* Yizkor > ! 04/23* Yom ha-Sho'ah (Remembrance of the Holocaust) > ! 04/25* Parashat Shemini > ! 04/25* Shabbat Mevarekhim > ! 04/27* Rosh Chodesh Iyar (Beginning of the month of Iyar) > ! 04/16* Pesach (sabbatical) > ! 04/30* Yom ha-Atzmaut (Israel Independence Day) > ! 05/02* Parashat Tazria/Mezora > ! 05/09* Parashat Aharei Mot/Kedoshim > ! 05/09* Shabbat Mevarekhim > ! 05/14* Lag Ba`omer (Commemoration of the Great Rebellion) > ! 05/16* Parashat Emor > ! 05/23* Parashat Be-Har/Be-Hukkotai > ! 05/24* Yom Yerushalayim (Reunification of Jerusalem) > ! 05/26* Rosh Chodesh Sivan (Beginning of the month of Sivan) > ! 05/30* Parashat Be-Midbar > ! 05/31* Shavuos (Festival of Weeks; 50 days after Pesach; sabbatical) > ! 06/01* Shavuos (Festival of Weeks; sabbatical) > ! 06/06* Parashat Naso > ! 06/13* Parashat Be-Ha'alotkha > ! 06/20* Parashat Shelah > ! 06/20* Shabbat Mevarekhim > ! 06/25* Rosh Chodesh Tammuz (Beginning of the month of Tammuz) > ! 06/27* Parashat Korah > ! 07/04* Parashat Hukkat > ! 07/11* Parashat Balak > ! 07/12* Fast of Shiv'a Asar B'Tammuz (Romans breach Wall of Jerusalem; > ! fast day) > ! 07/18* Parashat Pinhas > ! 07/18* Shabbat Mevarekhim > ! 07/24* Rosh Chodesh Av (Beginning of the month of Av) > ! 07/25* Parashat Mattot/Masei > ! 08/01* Parashat Devarim > ! 08/01* Shabbat Hazon > ! 08/02* Fast of Tish'a B'Av (Babylon/Rome destroys Holy Temple; fast > day) > ! 08/08* Parashat Va-Ethannan > ! 08/08* Shabbat Nahamu > ! 08/15* Parashat Ekev > ! 08/15 Shabbat Mevarekhim > ! 08/22* Parashat Re'eh > ! 08/23* Rosh Chodesh Elul (Beginning of the month of Elul) > ! 08/23* First sounding of the Shofar > ! 08/29* Parashat Shofetim > ! 09/05* Parashat Ki Teze > ! 09/12* Parashat Ki Tavo > ! 09/19* Parashat Nizzavim > ! 09/20* Erev Rosh ha-Shanah (Jewish Lunar New Year; 5759; sabbatical) > ! 09/21* First Day of Rosh ha-Shanah (Jewish Lunar New Year; 5759; > sabbatical) > ! 09/21* Rosh Chodesh Tishri (Beginning of the month of Tishri) > ! 09/23* Fast of Gedalya (Murder of Gedalya and subsequent Exile; 1 day > ! after Rosh Hashanah; fast day) > ! 09/26* Parashat Va-Yelekh > ! 09/29* Erev Yom Kippur > ! 09/30* Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement; 9 days after Rosh Hashanah; > ! sabbatical, fast day) > ! 10/03* Parashat Ha'azinu > ! 10/05* Succot (Festival of Tabernacles; 14 days after Rosh Hashanah; > ! sabbatical) > ! 10/06* Succot (sabbatical) > ! 10/07* Hol ha-Mo'ed > ! 10/08* Hol ha-Mo'ed > ! 10/09* Hol ha-Mo'ed > ! 10/10* Hol ha-Mo'ed > ! 10/11* Hoshana Rabba > ! 10/12* Shmini Atzeres (8th Day of Gathering; 1 day after Succos; > sabbatical) > ! 10/13* Shmini Atzeres/Simchas Torah (Rejoicing of the Law; sabbatical) > ! 10/13* Yizkor > ! 10/17* Parashat Bereshit > ! 10/17* Shabbat Mevarekhim > ! 10/21* Rosh Chodesh Heshvan (Beginning of the month of Heshvan) > ! 10/24* Parashat No'ah > ! 10/31* Parashat Lekh Lekha > ! 10/10* Hoshanah Rabba (7th day of Succos) > ! 11/07* Parashat Va-Yera > ! 11/14* Parashat Hayyei Sarah > ! 11/14* Shabbat Mevarekhim > ! 11/20* Rosh Chodesh Kislev (Beginning of the month of Kislev) > ! 11/21* Parashat Toledot > ! 11/28* Parashat Va-Yeze > ! 12/05* Parashat Va-Yishlah > ! 12/12* Parashat Va-Yeshev > ! 12/12* Shabbat Mevarekhim > ! 12/13* Erev Hanukkah > ! 12/14* Hanukkah > ! 12/15* Hanukkah > ! 12/16* Hanukkah > ! 12/17* Hanukkah > ! 12/18* Hanukkah > ! 12/19* Hanukkah > ! 12/20* Hanukkah > ! 12/21* Hanukkah > ! 12/19* Parashat Mi-Kez > ! 12/20* Rosh Chodesh Tevet (Beginning of the month of Tevet) > ! 12/26* Parashat Va-Yiggash > ! > > #endif /* !_calendar_judaic_ */ > > ------------------ENCLOSED-------------------ENCLOSED--------------------- > - > > > -- > Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.5 > jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses > ---------- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Shimon@Simon-Shapiro.ORG Voice: 503.799.2313 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 19:40:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA04704 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:40:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (d182-89.uoregon.edu [128.223.182.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA04568 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:39:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA14153; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:38:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19980110193858.40870@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:38:58 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Mikael Karpberg Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make_device_driver.sh References: <19980107154653.65316@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <199801110237.DAA03500@ocean.campus.luth.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199801110237.DAA03500@ocean.campus.luth.se>; from Mikael Karpberg on Sun, Jan 11, 1998 at 03:37:09AM +0100 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Mikael Karpberg scribbled this message on Jan 11: > According to John-Mark Gurney: > > soon, when I've completed the bus/device code, then this will be possible, > > but at the same time, the current LKM system will be replaced with the > > kld system, so there won't be any "special" handling of dynamicly loaded > > modules, just special handling of brain-dead not upgraded devices that > > don't support unloading.. > > I haven't really heard much about kld, or I have suppressed it. :-) don't worry, there haven't been many message about it... > Any info that you can give me (us?) on what it will be like? > Will that allow us to do "load driver, probe, if not found - unload driver" > stuff at boot time? So that all drivers in /drivers/ are loaded and probed, > or something, which would make kernel recompile to add soundcard, etc, a mere > memory, and be replaced by "cp"? :-) yep... it will allow all of this... we'll probably use a daemon to control all of this... the big problem with doing a scan of the directory, is that it is relatively expensive... using a daemon would make this much cleaner... > As I said, any info would be appreciated. Maybe points to where it's been > said before? well... the kernel/driver interface is described in: http://d182-89.uoregon.edu/~jmg/FreeBSD/busdevice.html I haven't speced the device that will be used to control/interact with the bus/device code yet, but that will be relatively simple... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 20:00:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA06920 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:00:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA06876 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:00:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA20820 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 03:42:30 GMT (envelope-from brian@gate.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199801110342.DAA20820@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Change to config(8) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 03:42:29 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi, I'd like to commit this change, but I don't know if it's correct. AFAICT, because the minor() bit of a dev_t is only 8 bits, minors of > 256 are useless. They also break the -current DEVFS code in that you end up with an increased major number (oops!) if you (for example) pseudo-device tun 257 However, I haven't committed it because I don't know where things like /dev/sd0s1 get their minors (0x00020002). -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... Index: mkheaders.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/usr.sbin/config/mkheaders.c,v retrieving revision 1.8 diff -c -r1.8 mkheaders.c *** mkheaders.c 1997/11/07 00:09:40 1.8 --- mkheaders.c 1998/01/11 03:40:28 *************** *** 129,134 **** --- 129,136 ---- FILE *inf, *outf; int inc, oldcount; + if (count > 256) + count = 256; file = toheader(hname); name = tomacro(dev); inf = fopen(file, "r"); From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 20:00:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA06938 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:00:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from scanner.worldgate.com (scanner.worldgate.com [198.161.84.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA06875 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:00:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Received: from znep.com (uucp@localhost) by scanner.worldgate.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id QAA06133 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:07:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.znep.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA05741 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:06:14 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:06:13 -0700 (MST) From: Marc Slemko To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: scripts for summarizing ktrace output? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Anyone have any scripts for giong through output from ktrace and summarize the % of time in each type of system call, context switches, etc.? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 20:17:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA09007 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:17:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from scanner.worldgate.com (scanner.worldgate.com [198.161.84.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA08975 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:17:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Received: from znep.com (uucp@localhost) by scanner.worldgate.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id VAA13953 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 21:17:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.znep.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA07093 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 21:15:52 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 21:15:52 -0700 (MST) From: Marc Slemko To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: why 100 byte TCP segments? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Note the below tcpdump: 21:05:47.748479 valis.worldgate.com.1034 > testbed.worldgate.com.http: S 761734757:761734757(0) win 16384 (DF) 21:05:47.748749 testbed.worldgate.com.http > valis.worldgate.com.1034: S 1887037484:1887037484(0) ack 761734758 win 17520 (DF) 21:05:47.749793 valis.worldgate.com.1034 > testbed.worldgate.com.http: . ack 1 win 17520 (DF) 21:05:47.749809 valis.worldgate.com.1034 > testbed.worldgate.com.http: P 1:101(100) ack 1 win 17520 (DF) 21:05:47.749823 valis.worldgate.com.1034 > testbed.worldgate.com.http: FP 101:139(38) ack 1 win 17520 (DF) 21:05:47.749837 testbed.worldgate.com.http > valis.worldgate.com.1034: . ack 140 win 17482 (DF) 21:05:47.752540 testbed.worldgate.com.http > valis.worldgate.com.1034: F 1:1(0) ack 140 win 17520 (DF) 21:05:47.766014 valis.worldgate.com.1034 > testbed.worldgate.com.http: . ack 2 win 17520 (DF) valis is a FreeBSD 2.2 box. The same thing happens on boxes from 2.1.5 to 2.2.5. Don't have a -current box to try it... The connection was generated by the below program. Note that it is a single write() or send() call that generates the data, yet it is split into two packets. While it isn't a big deal here, I noticed this when I was using a simple web benchmark program (ZeusBench) that doesn't disable the Nagle algorithm. In that example, the server was delaying its ack (standard 200ms) and the client wasn't sending the second part of the request (due to Nagle) so you could only get 5 reqs/sec on a persistent connection, ie. multiple sequential requests on one TCP connection. Disabling Nagle fixed this of course. Why is this happening? Is it just a coincidence that 100 bytes is the size of the data area in the first mbuf in a chain? Has it been fixed in -current or should I dig deeper... #include #include #include #include int main () { int s; struct sockaddr_in servaddr; struct hostent *he; char request[2048]; char *file = "/index.html"; char *machine = "testbed.worldgate.com"; int keepalive = 1; sprintf(request, "GET %s HTTP/1.0\r\nUser-Agent: ZeusBench/1.0 with a longer name\r\n" "%sHost: %s\r\nAccept: */*\r\n\r\n", file, keepalive?"Connection: Keep-Alive\r\n":"", machine ); s = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0); if (s < 0) { perror("socket"); exit(1); } bzero(&servaddr, sizeof(servaddr)); servaddr.sin_family = AF_INET; servaddr.sin_port = htons(80); he = gethostbyname(machine); servaddr.sin_addr.s_addr = ((unsigned long *)(he->h_addr_list[0]))[0]; if (connect(s, (struct sockaddr *) &servaddr, sizeof(servaddr))) { perror("connect"); exit(1); } /* both ways do the same thing */ #ifdef 1 write(s, request, strlen(request)); #else send(s, request, strlen(request), 0); #endif } From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 20:44:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA12024 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:44:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp3.portal.net.au [202.12.71.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA11900 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:43:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA00676; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:06:57 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199801110436.PAA00676@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Michael Hancock cc: Tim Tsai , David Kelly , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: GPS for xntpd Stratum 1 servers In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:23:34 +0900." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:06:57 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Regarding cost, it's really not the cost of the ethernet or fiber. It's > the cost of using the building owner's approved cable laying companies > provided we can get permission to even run anything to the roof from the > 15th floor. > > The GBS is something that would have been cool and superb accuracy really > isn't necessary for the application, just reasonable accuracy and good > consistency. > > I found out that the Cisco 7000 in that office has a very good clock, so > we'll just hit enter on the tone and go from there. Speaking of phone lines; what would it cost you to get a phone line connected to the roof? One would expect that the building is prewired for telephony... -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 20:59:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA13298 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:59:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (d182-89.uoregon.edu [128.223.182.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA13290 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:59:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA14417; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:58:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19980110205853.06046@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:58:53 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: khansen@njcc.com Cc: Sergey Shkonda , "Richard M. Neswold" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: K6 Problems... References: <199801101454.QAA02481@bcs3.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua> <34B80293.407D@njcc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <34B80293.407D@njcc.com>; from Ken Hansen on Sat, Jan 10, 1998 at 06:21:55PM -0500 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Ken Hansen scribbled this message on Jan 10: > Doesn't the K6 present itself as a Super 486 - I know the K5 does... nope... your thinking of the Amd5x86/133... that is a 486 class chip.. both the K5 and the K6 are Socket7 chips... (pentium class)... CPU: AMD K6 (225.00-MHz 586-class CPU) > Sergey Shkonda wrote: > > > > In article you wrote: > > > I recently upgraded my system to a K6/166. I booted with /kernel.GENERIC > > > so that I could recompile my kernel with "i586_CPU" defined. The newly > > > compiled kernel only booted as far as the probe messages. No error > > > messages or panics occurred; the system just sat there after probing the > > > hardware. > > -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 21:44:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA17432 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 21:44:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from drmemory.cohorts.org (rneswold.pr.mcs.net [204.95.35.148]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA17351 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 21:43:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rneswold@mcs.net) Received: from localhost (rneswold@localhost) by drmemory.cohorts.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) with SMTP id XAA00311; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:39:29 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: drmemory.cohorts.org: rneswold owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:39:28 -0600 (CST) From: "Richard M. Neswold" X-Sender: rneswold@drmemory.cohorts.org Reply-To: rneswold@mcs.net To: Sergey Shkonda cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: K6 Problems... In-Reply-To: <199801101454.QAA02481@bcs3.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua> Message-ID: X-Spambot-Food: abuse@localhost postmaster@localhost postmaster@fbi.gov MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Sergey Shkonda wrote: > In article you wrote: > > > I recently upgraded my system to a K6/166. I booted with /kernel.GENERIC > > so that I could recompile my kernel with "i586_CPU" defined. The newly > > compiled kernel only booted as far as the probe messages. No error > > messages or panics occurred; the system just sat there after probing the > > hardware. > > options AUTO_EOI_1 and AUTO_EOI_2 will be disabled. I removed AUTO_EOI_2 from my config and now it's working. Thanks! (Thanks also to everyone else on the list who offered help!) Rich ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rich Neswold | PGP: 0A C8 A5 76 DF 8E E1 B3 rneswold@mcs.net | F3 97 BE 73 DA CD 4B C9 http://www.mcs.net/~rneswold | From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 21:54:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA18773 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 21:54:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA18659 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 21:52:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00826; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:20:44 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id QAA20327; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:20:44 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980111162044.01313@lemis.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:20:44 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: khansen@njcc.com Cc: Sergey Shkonda , "Richard M. Neswold" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: K6 Problems... References: <199801101454.QAA02481@bcs3.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua> <34B80293.407D@njcc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <34B80293.407D@njcc.com>; from Ken Hansen on Sat, Jan 10, 1998 at 06:21:55PM -0500 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sat, Jan 10, 1998 at 06:21:55PM -0500, Ken Hansen wrote: > Doesn't the K6 present itself as a Super 486 - I know the K5 does... No, it has a full MMX instruction set. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jan 10 22:03:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA19856 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 22:03:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wakky.dyn.ml.org (lee@ppp-24-219.tidalwave.net [208.220.24.219]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA19820 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 22:02:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lee@wakky.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from lee@localhost) by wakky.dyn.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA04977; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 01:02:35 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from lee) Message-ID: <19980111010235.60886@wakky.dyn.ml.org> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 01:02:35 -0500 From: Lee Cremeans To: John-Mark Gurney Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: K6 Problems... Reply-To: lcremean@tidalwave.net References: <199801101454.QAA02481@bcs3.bcs.zaporizhzhe.ua> <34B80293.407D@njcc.com> <19980110205853.06046@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <19980110205853.06046@hydrogen.nike.efn.org>; from John-Mark Gurney on Sat, Jan 10, 1998 at 08:58:53PM -0800 X-OS: FreeBSD 2.2-RELEASE X-Evil: microsoft.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sat, Jan 10, 1998 at 08:58:53PM -0800, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > Ken Hansen scribbled this message on Jan 10: > > Doesn't the K6 present itself as a Super 486 - I know the K5 does... > > nope... your thinking of the Amd5x86/133... that is a 486 class chip.. > both the K5 and the K6 are Socket7 chips... (pentium class)... > The Cyrix 6x86 reports itself as a 486-class chip, fwiw...not sure about the MX or MediaGX, tho. -- Lee C. -- Manassas, VA, USA (WakkyMouse on DALnet #watertower) A! JW223 YWD+++^ri P&B++ SL+++^i GDF B&M KK--i MD+++i P++ I++++ Did $++ E5/10/70/3c/73ac/95/96 H2 PonPippi Ay77 M | hcremean (at) vt.edu FreeBSD/Linux/Unix hacker...Win95 and M$ evil! (go see www.freebsd.org) My home page: http://wakky.dyn.ml.org/~lee | finger me for geek code