From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Apr 12 19:37:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA13899 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 19:37:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA13883; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 19:37:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA18209; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 12:36:57 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980413123654.14293@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 12:36:54 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Frank Pawlak Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Promoting FreeBSD - the user's piece of the action. References: <29092.892387190@time.cdrom.com> <199804130217.VAA02346@darkstar.connect.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <199804130217.VAA02346@darkstar.connect.com>; from Frank Pawlak on Sun, Apr 12, 1998 at 09:17:39PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Apr 12, 1998 at 09:17:39PM -0500, Frank Pawlak wrote: > Along with this I am asking those that have posted their ideas to come > forth and at least set out their skills inventory and what they can and > would like to do. There are a few newbies with lots of energy who discussed this and started throwing ideas around a couple of weeks ago, but didn't really know how best to expend their energies or implement their ideas in an appropriate manner. Those of us with limited Internet resources are waiting to discover whether we'll get a piece of the action best by joining -hackers or -chat or the rumoured -advocacy. When it comes into focus, we'll be there. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Apr 12 19:58:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA18418 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 19:58:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.16.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA18374; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 19:58:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (indobok-9.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.87.9]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.8.8) id CAA19455; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 02:57:57 GMT Received: from darkstar.connect.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by darkstar.connect.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA02568; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 21:57:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199804130257.VAA02568@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 21:57:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Frank Pawlak Subject: Re: Promoting FreeBSD - the user's piece of the action. To: sue@welearn.com.au cc: fpawlak@execpc.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980413123654.14293@welearn.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 13 Apr, Sue Blake wrote: > On Sun, Apr 12, 1998 at 09:17:39PM -0500, Frank Pawlak wrote: > >> Along with this I am asking those that have posted their ideas to come >> forth and at least set out their skills inventory and what they can and >> would like to do. > > There are a few newbies with lots of energy who discussed this and started > throwing ideas around a couple of weeks ago, but didn't really know how best > to expend their energies or implement their ideas in an appropriate manner. > > Those of us with limited Internet resources are waiting to discover whether > we'll get a piece of the action best by joining -hackers or -chat or the > rumoured -advocacy. When it comes into focus, we'll be there. > > Thanks. We are just starting, no focus for anyone yet. But we'll all have our part. Stay in touch until we get some sort of organization, as of right now it will be easy to get lost in the noise. Regards, Frank -- ----------------------------- "At no time is freedom of speech more precious then when a man hits his thumb with a hammer." -- Marshall Lumsden To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Apr 12 20:11:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA19494 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 20:11:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA19472 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 20:11:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA18345; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 13:11:24 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980413131120.29826@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 13:11:20 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: FWD: Promoting FreeBSD - the user's piece of the action. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The message below was the start of one of the threads about promoting FreeBSD that have been jumping from mailing list to mailing list. This particular one was posted to freebsd-hackers, because these matters were being discussed there (which is not the true purpose of -hackers!) and because a lot of people read that mailing list. Attempts to move these threads to freebsd-chat (where hackers go to chat) were only partially successful at first, but now -chat seems to be where it's all happening. There has been talk of a new mailing list, freebsd-advocacy, but I haven't seen it appear yet. Those who want to follow what's going on may wish to join freebsd-chat in the short term, and move over to freebsd-advocacy when it is formed, or to -hackers or wherever else the discussion wanders :-) But seriously, jump into freebsd-chat right now if you don't want to miss out on the action. -----Forwarded message from "Jordan K. Hubbard" ----- To: Frank Pawlak cc: danj@3skel.com, jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, toor@dyson.iquest.net, brett@lariat.org, mike@smith.net.au, dshanes@personalogic.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Promoting FreeBSD - the user's piece of the action. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:53:04 CDT." <199804102353.SAA06404@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:31:10 -0700 Message-ID: <12686.892272670@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG [ Resubjected but left in -hackers with followup set since people seem to just NOT want to have this conversation in -chat and so be it; I shall not attempt to hold back the tide. :-) ] > 1) A marketing and business plan needs to be developed, objectives and > target markets clearly documented. FreeBSD strengths clearly delineated I'm all for it, but keep in mind the fact that without volunteer labor to make all these wonderful things actually HAPPEN, it'll be no more successful than any of our previous attempts at serious marketing. A lot of the usual voiced indignation and discussion but no actual press releases written, no articles in the magazines, no books, no public speaking engagements, in short - no significant action. Ask yourselves all for a moment just how you think that Linux's own PR machine got to be such a monster - is it Linus being an engaging speaker and spending 350 days out of the year on the road, pounding the pulpit? No. Linus isn't a bad speaker, in fact, but he's too busy taking care of his family to go on any road tours and it's not really due to his efforts that Linux is as successful as it is today anyway. Linux is wildly successful because it managed to attract, early on, a hoard of camp followers who didn't hack the sources but did hack text and produced reams of freely republishable text which bootstrapped an entire book industry. They published articles in magazines and wrote letters to the editor. THEY did the big PR push behind the operating system and, as far as I can see, the developers were left to do what they do best - develop software. I've seen a lot of good ideas in this thread, please don't get me wrong, but what I've also seen is a disturbing number of posts which essentially say "Rah rah! Yes! Get organized at the top and do a bunch of stuff and FreeBSD will win! Here's a list of things I think you guys should do ..." While I do appreciate the ideas, the above approach *seriously* misses the point, the point being that if you wait for the core team to aggressively market this OS then you're going to wait a long time and miss any number of valuable opportunities in the process. More to the point, you'll fail. I'm sorry, but it's an indisputable fact that the core team doesn't have any real marketing folks on it at the moment, nor do we know of any serious marketing folks who are genuinely willing and able to lead any one-man cavalry charges, so for the time being what FreeBSD's users all really REALLY need to do is to stop waiting for someone from the top to "tell them what to do" and just start doing it themselves! That's exactly what's been going on in the Linux camp all this time, by the way. People haven't been asking Linus Torvalds to put together a marketing plan for them before doing anything, they've just gone right on ahead and done whatever seemed obvious in the way of marketing/evangelism, and it's WORKING. I'm sorry for the use of caps, but this really is a serious problem. Our users have, by and large, COMPLETELY MISSED the entire concept of what marketing a free operating system is all about. Perhaps we've simply been too successful at acting like a corporate entity for folks to really make the connection that we're still free software and with all of free software's marketing problems - the fact that everyone's still waiting for a non-existent central marketing department to pop up and say "here's the new ad campaign!" sort of suggests this - but something is definitely wrong here. In any case, we don't have a central marketing department and demanding that we form one in order to solve this problem really does, again, completely miss the point. When you go to fight a war, you don't find 5-10 guys and say "guys, the enemy is attacking with 12 divisions of armored infantry - here are some rifles, go drive them off!" No, you raise 12 divisions of your own among the populace and it's the citizens who go off to fight the war on their own behalf. Free software is no different - if you want FreeBSD to win, you need to sit down and _invest the time_ in making tangible things happen, like writing magazine articles or any of the other activities I've mentioned so far. It is with you, the user, that the war will either be won or lost. I'm also sorry to make it sound like I'm picking on Frank, I'm not, I'm simply taking this response as an opportunity to make the point that people should really stop wasting time asking for instructions on what to do and simply start DOING something. You don't need instructions from me or anyone else on the core team on what to do, you really do know already! I've already listed dozens of good activities and most people know instinctively what constitutes good PR - writing books, magazine articles or press releases, giving CDs to libraries, presenting FreeBSD in schools, telling your friends - all the things we've covered so far. If you're at all typical, your biggest problem is, in fact, simply finding the time and volition to sit down and DO THE WORK. In this, I can only suggest simply blocking out some time and saying "OK, enough talk - this time I'm going to WRITE the friggin' thing!" (whatever your value for "thing" might be) or getting involved in some collaborative effort with a friend. Many books in print today were only completed because several people were involved and managed to keep one another on track - if one person had tried doing it alone, it'd never have happened. That's a good point to keep in mind as you contemplate your own private PR efforts. Last of all, please don't worry about "speaking inappropriately for FreeBSD" - just take the initiative! I've had more than one person contact me to say "I would have spoken about it at FooLISA but I didn't want to speak for you guys." Erm.. That's another case of seriously missing the point - FreeBSD belongs to all of you, we in core being merely its current custodians, and you need not fear that you'll be taking some sort of liberties by extolling the virtues of YOUR operating system! Somebody in -core might send you a nasty-gram if your arguments consist of nothing more than "Linux sucks! Run FreeBSD dammit!" but it's still your right to evangelise however you see fit, albeit hopefully with a modicum of style, and take up the fight on your own. Don't wait for us! As the Nike commercial says: Just Do It. :-) Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -----End of forwarded message----- -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Apr 12 21:29:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA28771 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 21:29:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kerouac.deepwell.com ([206.170.189.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA28764 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 21:29:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ian@deepwell.com) Received: (qmail 8339 invoked from network); 13 Apr 1998 04:41:14 -0000 Received: from lorca.deepwell.com (HELO whitman.deepwell.com) (207.212.140.239) by kerouac.deepwell.com with SMTP; 13 Apr 1998 04:41:14 -0000 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980412212331.00960608@deepwell.com> X-Sender: ian@deepwell.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 21:23:31 -0700 To: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Ian Briggs Subject: package Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Im trying to install post.office 3.0.1 for BSDi on FreeBSD now 2.* for BSDi was compatable, but with 3.0.1 I don't have the current version of a package called libc_s.2.1.0 I checked on www.freebsd.org and came up with nothing which lends me to believe that im searching wrong. any help? Ian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Apr 12 22:53:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA11259 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 22:53:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA11254 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 22:52:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA05698; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 22:53:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Sue Blake cc: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FWD: Promoting FreeBSD - the user's piece of the action. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 13 Apr 1998 13:11:20 +1000." <19980413131120.29826@welearn.com.au> Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 22:53:02 -0700 Message-ID: <5694.892446782@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > There has been talk of a new mailing list, freebsd-advocacy, but I haven't > seen it appear yet. Those who want to follow what's going on may wish to We should hopefully see this created in the next couple of days - there will be an announcement. Thanks, Sue, for forwarding this message in the meantime. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 13 10:34:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA12855 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 10:34:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from i3se0101.is.chbs.ciba.com (ns2.ibo.ch [194.191.169.76]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA12807 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 17:34:25 GMT (envelope-from neal.tillery@cp.novartis.com) From: neal.tillery@cp.novartis.com Received: from mailhub by i3se0101.is.chbs.ciba.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/12Mar96-0208PM) id AA17280; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:33:49 +0200 Received: from pp-banzai-chbs.cp.chbs (pp-banzai-chbs.cp.chbs [168.246.161.82]) by mta3.is.chbs (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA21723 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:34:28 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199804131734.TAA21723@mta3.is.chbs> Received: by pp-banzai-chbs.cp.chbs with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id <2X5A7B3R>; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:33:50 +0200 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: POP vs. Sendmail Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:34:04 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well I finally configured PPP to work on my home computer this weekend (I've had it running on my friends network for about a week now). I then sat then and wondered what to do next. Mail! The problem is after reading the book I'm not sure which MTA I should use. Should I take the time to configure Sendmail to receive my mail form my ISP, or just install POP to retrieve mail instead. Right now I only have one PC, but I plan to add 2 more in the next 3 months and I would like to have them use the same PPP link to the Internet and receive mail also. So my question is for those who have configured mail already. Should I set of POP now, or go with the grueling configuration of Sendmail have it up and ready when I add computers to my network? If I use Sendmail, what is the best way to do it; load it at boot time or call it from ppp.linkup? -- Neal Tillery -- neal.tillery@cp.novartis.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 13 11:01:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA18217 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:01:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA18045 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 17:59:46 GMT (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA20988; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 03:59:26 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980414035922.11771@welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 03:59:23 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: neal.tillery@cp.novartis.com Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: POP vs. Sendmail References: <199804131734.TAA21723@mta3.is.chbs> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <199804131734.TAA21723@mta3.is.chbs>; from neal.tillery@cp.novartis.com on Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 07:34:04PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 07:34:04PM +0200, neal.tillery@cp.novartis.com wrote: > Well I finally configured PPP to work on my home computer this weekend > (I've had it running on my friends network for about a week now). I > then sat then and wondered what to do next. Mail! The problem is after > reading the book I'm not sure which MTA I should use. Should I take the > time to configure Sendmail to receive my mail form my ISP, or just > install POP to retrieve mail instead. Right now I only have one PC, but > I plan to add 2 more in the next 3 months and I would like to have them > use the same PPP link to the Internet and receive mail also. So my > question is for those who have configured mail already. Should I set of > POP now, or go with the grueling configuration of Sendmail have it up > and ready when I add computers to my network? If I use Sendmail, what > is the best way to do it; load it at boot time or call it from > ppp.linkup? When you say the book, do you mean the second edition of The Complete FreeBSD? I set up sendmail from that book and it was really easy, hardly anything needed to be done to get sendmail itself working. It's the networking that it relies on that's the brain buster. Don't let sendmail spook stories get to you. People like you and me can run it almost out of the box. It's when you start trying to change too many things that it requires someone who really knows what they're doing. But it sounds like you've got a POP account and need to get mail from there? I think the only way to get POP mail is with POP. That's also covered, and recent versions of my MUA (mutt) are supposed to do POP as well but I haven't tried it. Of course, I'm a newbie so I could be totally wrong :-) but I do know a lot of these things sounded much harder than they really were. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 13 11:03:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA18579 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:03:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA18570 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:03:28 GMT (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA21009; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 04:03:25 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980414040320.22557@welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 04:03:20 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD Newsletter Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The next issue of the FreeBSD Newsletter will be out soon (see the web site for the first issue). There's still time to write a short article and submit it within the next ten days. If anyone is writing something of interest to newbies and wants to discuss it here first, feel free. Someone might already be writing on the same topic. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 13 11:18:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA20894 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:18:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from i3se0101.is.chbs.ciba.com (ns2.ibo.ch [194.191.169.76]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA20878 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:18:19 GMT (envelope-from neal.tillery@cp.novartis.com) From: neal.tillery@cp.novartis.com Received: from mailhub by i3se0101.is.chbs.ciba.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/12Mar96-0208PM) id AA19416; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:17:42 +0200 Received: from pp-banzai-chbs.cp.chbs (pp-banzai-chbs.cp.chbs [168.246.161.82]) by mta3.is.chbs (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA29631; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:18:21 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199804131818.UAA29631@mta3.is.chbs> Received: by pp-banzai-chbs.cp.chbs with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id <2X5A7BSL>; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:17:43 +0200 To: sue@welearn.com.au Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: POP vs. Sendmail Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:17:58 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >> Sue wrote << > When you say the book, do you mean the second edition of The Complete > FreeBSD? I set up sendmail from that book and it was really easy, > hardly > anything needed to be done to get sendmail itself working. It's the > networking that it relies on that's the brain buster. > Yes, _The Complete FreeBSD_. THE book, bible, etc.. Ninety percent of my knowledge on FreeBSD comes from that book. > But it sounds like you've got a POP account and need to get mail from > there? > I think the only way to get POP mail is with POP. That's also covered, > and > recent versions of my MUA (mutt) are supposed to do POP as well but I > haven't tried it. > Your are correct, so I need to use POP. BTW when you installed Mutt, did it install a Muttrc file in /usr/local/etc (I think that is where it is supposed to be)? I couldn't find it, and I don't think it installed the HTML docs either. What really spooked me was the domain masquerading stuff. My network at home will have its own (unregistered) domain, but my email account uses the domain of my ISP (obviously). I didn't know if that would screw things up. Another problem was how does POP know which user account mail goes to? Does it deliver it to which ever user ran the POP program? I guess I need to read the man pages on the POP program first. I've just thought this would be a no brainer coming from the MS world. Maybe it is, *shrug*. With power comes complexity. -- (Forgot who said this) --Neal Tillery --neal.tillery@cp.novartis.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 13 20:43:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA07325 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:43:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA07263; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 03:43:31 GMT (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from ale (pm3g-25.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.74]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA01335; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:41:09 -0700 (PDT) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980413204217.006a39f8@pacificnet.net> X-Sender: bear@pacificnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:42:17 -0700 To: Sue Blake , Frank Pawlak From: Joey Garcia Subject: Re: Promoting FreeBSD - the user's piece of the action. Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980413123654.14293@welearn.com.au> References: <199804130217.VAA02346@darkstar.connect.com> <29092.892387190@time.cdrom.com> <199804130217.VAA02346@darkstar.connect.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hey all!! You know, I've been saying this all along....FreeBSD needs promotion. I was at the bookstore today in the Unix section....not one FreeBSD (or BSD for that matter) book did I see. None. Zilch. Nada. Although, there were more Linux books than I have fingers and toes (10 fingers, 10 toes =P ). There were also books on SCO Unix and Solaris. Well after getting tired of looking at books, I went over to the magazine rack and BAM .... there it was ... a Linux magazine. (Linux Journal) Linux, Linux everywhere. We all know that Linux has a big following....hell even I use it, just because I heard about Linux before I heard about FreeBSD ... or BSD for that matter. I learned about Unix and Linux when I kept getting nuked off IRC. Anyways, I've been using Linux for a little while now ... but I have read enough about BSD and FreeBSD to know that it's worth a try. "If Yahoo can swear by it....then it must be good", I thought. Anyways, I'm still getting more information about FreeBSD (and the other BSD's) before I migrate, but things would have helped if there were more promotion of FreeBSD...as in books, magazines (online or in print), etc. So basically...I'm willing to put forth some effort to promote FreeBSD (to help myself and others learn more about it) as in user groups or something within my area. I live in Los Angeles...and that's a big area. :) I'm willing to think about this and try to figure out ways in order to show the world that FreeBSD exists and stuff. The point of all this is that I'm up for the task of FreeBSD promotion. Joey Bear Garcia To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 13 20:43:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA07392 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:43:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA07265; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 03:43:31 GMT (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from ale (pm3g-25.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.74]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA01350; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:41:13 -0700 (PDT) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980413204241.006a6064@pacificnet.net> X-Sender: bear@pacificnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:42:41 -0700 To: Sue Blake , Frank Pawlak From: Joey Garcia Subject: Re: Promoting FreeBSD - the user's piece of the action. Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hey all!! You know, I've been saying this all along....FreeBSD needs promotion. I was at the bookstore today in the Unix section....not one FreeBSD (or BSD for that matter) book did I see. None. Zilch. Nada. Although, there were more Linux books than I have fingers and toes (10 fingers, 10 toes =P ). There were also books on SCO Unix and Solaris. Well after getting tired of looking at books, I went over to the magazine rack and BAM .... there it was ... a Linux magazine. (Linux Journal) Linux, Linux everywhere. We all know that Linux has a big following....hell even I use it, just because I heard about Linux before I heard about FreeBSD ... or BSD for that matter. I learned about Unix and Linux when I kept getting nuked off IRC. Anyways, I've been using Linux for a little while now ... but I have read enough about BSD and FreeBSD to know that it's worth a try. "If Yahoo can swear by it....then it must be good", I thought. Anyways, I'm still getting more information about FreeBSD (and the other BSD's) before I migrate, but things would have helped if there were more promotion of FreeBSD...as in books, magazines (online or in print), etc. So basically...I'm willing to put forth some effort to promote FreeBSD (to help myself and others learn more about it) as in user groups or something within my area. I live in Los Angeles...and that's a big area. :) I'm willing to think about this and try to figure out ways in order to show the world that FreeBSD exists and stuff. The point of all this is that I'm up for the task of FreeBSD promotion. Joey Bear Garcia To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 14 02:52:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA06046 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 02:52:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA06040 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:52:33 GMT (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from radan.demon.co.uk ([158.152.75.22]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa2003325; 14 Apr 98 9:47 GMT Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id KAA03606; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:46:45 +0100 Received: from uk.radan.com (gppsun4) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08185; Tue, 14 Apr 98 10:46:43 BST Message-Id: <35333078.833A3C76@uk.radan.com> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:46:32 +0100 From: Mark Ovens Organization: Radan Computational Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fanatical Software Devotion References: <19980409170404.03517@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote: > > On Wed, 8 April 1998 at 14:30:51 -0700, Rick Hamell wrote: > > > > As I was reading 'The Complete FreeBSD' by Greg Lehey, I started > > to reflect upon what I perceive as fanatism in software. I.e. Windows95 is > > just a rip off of MacOS System 7. Linux is the truly free system, FreeBSD > > is more stable then Linux, etc. etc. :) Anybody have any insight/personal > > feelings on this? Any reason why you are a 'fanatic' of one system versus > > another? :) > > Good question, one I'm not going to try to answer. I hope, though, > that you didn't get the impression that the book was partisan. If you > did, please reply privately and tell me where and how. > > Greg > > -- > Greg Lehey LEMIS > grog@lemis.com PO Box 460 > Tel: +61-8-8388-8286 Echunga SA 5153 > Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Australia > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message Hi, Can anyone tell me who sells or distributes this book in the UK. I haven't been able to find a copy. -- Mark Ovens *====================================* CNC Apps Engineer | One of the main causes of the fall | Radan Computational Ltd | of the Roman Empire was, that | mailto:marko@uk.radan.com | lacking a zero, they had no way of | | indicating the successful | | termination of their C programs | *====================================* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 14 08:48:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA05759 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 08:48:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de (root@gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de [194.163.242.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05750 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:48:36 GMT (envelope-from Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de) Received: from duffner.konstanz.netsurf.de (surf79.konstanz.netsurf.de [194.163.242.79]) by gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA12934; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:48:23 +0200 Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:39:45 +0200 (MESZ) From: Rainer M Duffner Subject: Re: Fanatical Software Devotion To: Mark Ovens cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <35333078.833A3C76@uk.radan.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: enigma, http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~enigma X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue 14 Apr, Mark Ovens wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: [something about his book] > > Hi, > Can anyone tell me who sells or distributes this book in the UK. I > haven't been able to find a copy. You _should_ be able to order it from any local bookshop. It's not that trivial for the bookshop, as it may have to be ordered via a specialised distributor, but in theory, it shouldn't make too many problems. Just pester them long enough ;-) [I had to pay some money in advance here, and I don't know if they can get me the version without CD-ROMs]. cheers, Rainer -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |Rainer Duffner, E-Mail: duffner@fh-konstanz.de | | & Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de | |Fachhochschule Konstanz, Germany | |"What's a Network ?" - Bill Gates, early 1980s | | WWW:http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~duffner | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 14 14:30:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17563 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:30:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA17445 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:29:46 GMT (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA27390; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 07:21:47 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980415072144.14144@welearn.com.au> Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 07:21:44 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: What do newbies want? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org What would make things easier and more pleasant for people who try FreeBSD for the first time? Is there something you wished for when you started but couldn't find? What did you find that you really liked? Are there problems that only newbies have, that could be addressed somehow? If you had a magic wand, what would you like to see added, removed, or improved? We did discuss this a bit before but I think it's worth exploring it in more depth, now that there's a lot of talk about promoting FreeBSD. It's one thing to attract people to FreeBSD, but what else could we be offering them once they arrive? Newbies are the experts here, so first see how many ideas you can come up with. Even if they are impossible ideas they could inspire someone else to think of something, so don't hold back. Later on we can pick out the important ones and look at how to implement them, but let's just get the ideas flowing first. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 14 15:51:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08036 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:51:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA08001; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 22:50:42 GMT (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (pm01-21.aei.ca [206.123.6.121]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA15672; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 18:50:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3533E825.A7088092@aei.ca> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 18:50:13 -0400 From: KapuT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joey Garcia CC: Sue Blake , Frank Pawlak , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jmb@FreeBSD.ORG, newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Promoting FreeBSD - the user's piece of the action. References: <199804130217.VAA02346@darkstar.connect.com> <29092.892387190@time.cdrom.com> <199804130217.VAA02346@darkstar.connect.com> <3.0.1.32.19980413204217.006a39f8@pacificnet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Joey Garcia wrote: > Hey all!! > > You know, I've been saying this all along....FreeBSD needs promotion. I > was at the bookstore today in the Unix section....not one FreeBSD (or BSD > for that matter) book did I see. None. Zilch. Nada. Although, there were > more Linux books than I have fingers and toes (10 fingers, 10 toes =P ). > There were also books on SCO Unix and Solaris. Well after getting tired of > looking at books, I went over to the magazine rack and BAM .... there it > was ... a Linux magazine. (Linux Journal) Linux, Linux everywhere. > > We all know that Linux has a big following....hell even I use it, just > because I heard about Linux before I heard about FreeBSD ... or BSD for > that matter. I learned about Unix and Linux when I kept getting nuked off > IRC. Anyways, I've been using Linux for a little while now ... but I have > read enough about BSD and FreeBSD to know that it's worth a try. "If Yahoo > can swear by it....then it must be good", I thought. > > Anyways, I'm still getting more information about FreeBSD (and the other > BSD's) before I migrate, but things would have helped if there were more > promotion of FreeBSD...as in books, magazines (online or in print), etc. > > So basically...I'm willing to put forth some effort to promote FreeBSD (to > help myself and others learn more about it) as in user groups or something > within my area. I live in Los Angeles...and that's a big area. :) I'm > willing to think about this and try to figure out ways in order to show the > world that FreeBSD exists and stuff. > > The point of all this is that I'm up for the task of FreeBSD promotion. > > Joey Bear Garcia Hum, freebsd-promotion@freebsd.org ? I think its a good idea :-) FreeBSD will loose a lot of market if they dont do the right promotion... like doing the FreeBSD-Newspaper hehehe Like I was saying: someone somewhere who is a real FreeBSD-hackers have time to do the FUG?(Freebsd User Group) This mailing list will go no-where ;-) Its like freebsd-chat but with new user who try to do deseperate thing! Hehehehe Malartre I need help for my *try* to do a FreeBSD ~ Doc for Newbies www.aei.ca/~malartre/ The look is finish but now we need text !!! -- --------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5-RELEASE --------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 14 15:54:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08947 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:54:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA08912 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 22:54:14 GMT (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (pm01-21.aei.ca [206.123.6.121]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA16177; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 18:53:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3533E909.36696386@aei.ca> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 18:54:01 -0400 From: KapuT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake CC: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What do newbies want? References: <19980415072144.14144@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue Blake wrote: > What would make things easier and more pleasant for people who try FreeBSD > for the first time? Is there something you wished for when you started but > couldn't find? What did you find that you really liked? Are there problems > that only newbies have, that could be addressed somehow? If you had a magic > wand, what would you like to see added, removed, or improved? > The introduction to unix: from Win95 to Unix > We did discuss this a bit before but I think it's worth exploring it in more > depth, now that there's a lot of talk about promoting FreeBSD. It's one > thing to attract people to FreeBSD, but what else could we be offering them > once they arrive? > A real explanation! > Newbies are the experts here, so first see how many ideas you can come up > with. Even if they are impossible ideas they could inspire someone else to > think of something, so don't hold back. Later on we can pick out the > important ones and look at how to implement them, but let's just get the > ideas flowing first. > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > find / -name "*.conf" |more Hey, any hacker (in the good sense of the word... not cracker) read this mailling-lost? sorry, mailling-list :-) Malartre I need help www.aei.ca/~malartre/ -- --------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5-RELEASE --------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 14 16:18:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA13143 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:18:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from boober.lineone.net (boober-be.lineone.net [194.75.152.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA13136 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:18:45 GMT (envelope-from gurab@lineone.net) Received: from admin.cian.net (host5-171-227-31.btinternet.com [195.171.227.31]) by boober.lineone.net (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id AAA31432; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 00:17:18 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <006001bd67fb$ba361280$0300a8c0@admin.cian.net> Reply-To: "Christopher Raven" From: "Christopher Raven" To: "Sue Blake" Cc: Subject: Re: What do newbies want? Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 00:19:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >What would make things easier and more pleasant for people who try FreeBSD >for the first time? Is there something you wished for when you started but >couldn't find? What did you find that you really liked? Are there problems >that only newbies have, that could be addressed somehow? If you had a magic >wand, what would you like to see added, removed, or improved? Some sort of built in configuration tool that lets you build a 'complete' desktop enviroment immediately - and without hastles (an included .xintrc default script would be a bonus?). Without a shadow of a doubt, to most non-CLI people a GUI enviroment is a top priority from the word go. Chris R. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 14 16:23:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA14305 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:23:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA14185 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:22:37 GMT (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA27943; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:22:18 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980415092213.47012@welearn.com.au> Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:22:13 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: KapuT Cc: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What do newbies want? References: <19980415072144.14144@welearn.com.au> <3533E909.36696386@aei.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <3533E909.36696386@aei.ca>; from KapuT on Tue, Apr 14, 1998 at 06:54:01PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ah, KapuT, I thought you'd disappeared! On Tue, Apr 14, 1998 at 06:54:01PM -0400, KapuT wrote: > Sue Blake wrote: > > > What would make things easier and more pleasant for people who try FreeBSD > > for the first time? Is there something you wished for when you started but > > couldn't find? What did you find that you really liked? Are there problems > > that only newbies have, that could be addressed somehow? If you had a magic > > wand, what would you like to see added, removed, or improved? > > > > The introduction to unix: from Win95 to Unix I think that's pretty common :-) What exactly would help here? Another tutorial like the one you saw? Books? Any more ideas about how you would like to learn unix? > > We did discuss this a bit before but I think it's worth exploring it in more > > depth, now that there's a lot of talk about promoting FreeBSD. It's one > > thing to attract people to FreeBSD, but what else could we be offering them > > once they arrive? > > > > A real explanation! Huh? A real explanation of what? > > Newbies are the experts here, so first see how many ideas you can come up > > with. Even if they are impossible ideas they could inspire someone else to > > think of something, so don't hold back. Later on we can pick out the > > important ones and look at how to implement them, but let's just get the > > ideas flowing first. > Hey, any hacker (in the good sense of the word... not cracker) read this > mailling-lost? sorry, mailling-list :-) > > Malartre > I need help You need help from a hacker to work out what you want for newbies? :-) What do you need help with? Do you think other newbies need that help and can't find it, or what? More details please :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 14 16:44:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA18250 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:44:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA18205 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:43:55 GMT (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id QAA19121 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:43:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com(207.76.205.64) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma019119; Tue Apr 14 16:42:41 1998 Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA00806 for FreeBSD-Newbies@freebsd.org; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:42:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:42:41 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199804142342.QAA00806@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What do newbies want? Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 07:21:44 +1000 >From: Sue Blake >What would make things easier and more pleasant for people who try FreeBSD >for the first time? Is there something you wished for when you started but >couldn't find? What did you find that you really liked? Are there problems >that only newbies have, that could be addressed somehow? If you had a magic >wand, what would you like to see added, removed, or improved? Fewer forced references to bizarre PC hardware and M$ "software". Rather, use of more usual UNIX terminology. I'm still quite unclear about how "slices" work; I was unable to build a FreeBSD system except by setting up the disks in dedicated mode. Basically, I don't have time in my life to learn M$ stuff just so I can understand how to make, use, and administer FreeBSD systems. For that matter, "gratuitous change" reduction would be useful -- I'm forever checking things on other kinds of systems, then trying to do a tail -f /var/adm/messages -- which sn't very useful on a FreeBSD box. (Yeah, I could make a symlink, but I administer a bunch of the boxes. I suppose I could hack up an amd map, but that would be cruel & unusual.) Although I am beginning to unnderstand that the "ports" concept may be useful for some folks, I'm still rather uncomfortable with it, since I want o have a single source repository for site-installed software, and I'm accustomed to doing the various configuration & make things that need to be done anyway. It isn't clear that the "ports" approach is all that useful if FreeBSD isn't the only UNIX flavor around.... As a consequence, it rarely even occurs to me to see if a "port" exists -- I fire up ncftp & go to the site where something is, get it, unpackit, & do the usual stuff.... Of course, some of my eccentricities are becoming more widely known, david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 14 17:35:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00454 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:35:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA00444 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 00:35:47 GMT (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from mustang (pm3g-26.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.75]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA15910; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:32:32 -0700 (PDT) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:33:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Joey Garcia X-Sender: bear@mustang To: Christopher Raven cc: Sue Blake , FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What do newbies want? In-Reply-To: <006001bd67fb$ba361280$0300a8c0@admin.cian.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Some sort of built in configuration tool that lets you build a > 'complete' desktop enviroment immediately - and without hastles (an > included .xintrc default script would be a bonus?). Without a shadow > of a doubt, to most non-CLI people a GUI enviroment is a top priority > from the word go. > > Chris R. > Coming from a GUI enviroment...(Windows)...I feel that GUI is very important. Most of the stuff I do depends on a GUI enviroment. KDE is a great enviroment for people migrating from Windows or something. It takes some work to set up, and if you are compiling it from the source...then you will need alot of spare time (unless you're on a Pentium II 333 or something). Anyways, I agree with you...more GUI setup help would be good. I have found that the easiest way to set up X is by using this program called XF86Setup, because xf86config is just way too confusing. Have fun. Joey Bear Garcia > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 14 18:27:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA10046 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 18:27:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA09840 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 01:26:36 GMT (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from pm3h-11.pacificnet.net (pm3h-11.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.108]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA28132 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 18:24:33 -0700 (PDT) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 18:25:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Joey Garcia To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Promotion Ideas Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Here's an idea for promoting FreeBSD. Over in LA area we have lot's of Computer Shows (I'm sure they have those world wide)...Anyways...why not open a booth at one of those shows promoting FreeBSD. At the booth...We can have a giant poster of the Beastie and a few machines running FreeBSD showing off what it can do. Also...we can sell FreeBSD books and CD's. Although, Walnut Creek would have to sponsor that I think, considering that getting a booth at a computer show costs money. Although, with book and cd sales ... it maybe worth it. Another idea is of course starting a Group...one guy on this list keeps suggesting that FreeBSD.org does something about doing a FUG (FreeBSD Users Group)...well the way I see it is that User Groups are up the the Users .. not really FreeBSD.org. Although...FreeBSD.org should keep and up to date list on all the User Groups available worldwide. If some of you are in school...(perhaps a jounior college or something)...maybe you can introduce FreeBSD to your C programming instructor. Maybe he/she would be insterested in starting a class in Unix via FreeBSD. I have heard of a few Community Colleges using Linux, so maybe we can help push FreeBSD. Hmmm...how about (thinking ...) What if we target already established "Computer Groups" and try promoting FreeBSD to them. Like giving them a free CD or something. I'm sure that most of you live in areas that already have Computer clubs that might not really deal with Unix, yet should be introduced to Unix. I guess one of the problems we have to face is to show to people what FreeBSD has to offer them and why it's "better" than Linux or other free-unix's. Well...all of these were ideas that I had while I was at work. I don't know if any are actually possible. Maybe they all are. I guess the thing is that we have to get off our butts and start doing something....but trust me...I know that's kinda hard to do. We all have lives and stuff....right? Peace, Joey Bear Garcia =================================================== Joseph Garcia Downey, CA bear@pacificnet.net "Dont drink and drive, you might spill the beer." =================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 14 18:44:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA12017 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 18:44:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA12002 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 01:44:14 GMT (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from pm3h-11.pacificnet.net (pm3h-11.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.108]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA02160 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 18:42:13 -0700 (PDT) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 18:43:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Joey Garcia To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: More Promotion Ideas Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Another idea just popped into my head. I know that actually writing published print isn't easy and costs alot of money...why not try doing a "FreeBSD Online Magazine" or "FreeBSD Journal". Something like that, but the name really doesn't matter. It's the content that counts. Okay okay...we all have read computer magazines and know how they generally work. We write articles on software, give advice on system maintenance, and talk about current events and new products. Of course...just like the other guys...we can have a "FreeBSD means Business" section that talks about how FreeBSD can be used in the real corporate world as an inexpensive powerfull OS. Revenue can be made by offering advertisement in the form of banners....but I guess you all could have guessed that right? Anyways...I know a bit of html and cgi...just a bit though. Although, I'd be willing to learn more if this can get off the ground. Of couse it should be run on a FreeBSD server, because it would be completely stupid if we try to promote a server OS yet run the website off another OS. Right? I guess we need someone to donate some webspace or something. Any ideas on a name for the site? www.freebsd-online.com? What if instead of just FreeBSD, we create a website for all BSD derivative OS's? That's another idea that just popped into my head right now. heh :) I think it would be kewl so that we all can get working together. I mean "all" as in all the BSD community...no matter if you run OpenBSD or NetBSD or BSDi. We can create a universal BSD community. It will be up to the users choice to decide if they want to use FreeBSD, OpenBSD, or NetBSD. Maybe and alliance between the BSD communities can be achived to create such a project. What do you think? Joey Bear Garcia =================================================== Joseph Garcia Downey, CA bear@pacificnet.net "Dont drink and drive, you might spill the beer." =================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 14 18:57:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA15767 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 18:57:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kalypso.cybercom.net (kalypso.cybercom.net [209.21.136.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA15679 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 01:56:54 GMT (envelope-from ksmm@cybercom.net) Received: from atlanta (mfd-dial3-11.cybercom.net [209.21.137.75]) by kalypso.cybercom.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA19157 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:56:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199804150156.VAA19157@kalypso.cybercom.net> X-Sender: ksmm@cybercom.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:33:02 -0400 To: From: The Classiest Man Alive Subject: Re: What do newbies want? In-Reply-To: <006001bd67fb$ba361280$0300a8c0@admin.cian.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:19 PM 4/14/98 , Christopher Raven wrote: > >Some sort of built in configuration tool that lets you build a >'complete' desktop enviroment immediately - and without hastles (an >included .xintrc default script would be a bonus?). Without a shadow >of a doubt, to most non-CLI people a GUI enviroment is a top priority >from the word go. > >Chris R. > I agree with this and I would even take the idea even a bit further. * A GUI or CHUI interface for installing _and_ post-installation configuration. The existing sysinstall has come a long way, but it's got stretch marks from age and expansion. The library that it uses is dated, and it could really stand to be rewritten. * More sensible defaults. Not just the .xinitrc but many of the /etc files need modification or editing after installation to get the expected results. For instance, many users are not connected to a network, but may want to set up PPP networking. If that's the case, the network initialization should just be omitted or commented out upon installation, and PPP setup should be run. * Internet readiness. A system should be ready to network rather quickly after installation is complete. This would mean having the required networking set up as well as a readily available web browser, e-mail client, and whatever other goodies a person might need. We're aware that FreeBSD has The Power to Serve, but we've also got to make it friendly to use on the client side to attract the newbie crowd. * More packages, fewer ports. Though most of the ports are already in package form, the list isn't complete. Ports (or any other component that needs to be built rather than extracted) are daunting to a new user. There should be as little of that for the novice user as possible. All this nit-picking makes me feel like I'm complaining when really I'm not. The quality of the installer and the config utilities have improved dramatically since I was first introduced to them, and they're very good now, enough that I prefer a FreeBSD installation to a Slackware or Red Hat Linux installation. But if you're speaking strictly in the interest of newbies, these are areas that I would improve. There's an tremendous irony in the UNIX world that applies here: the people who need these simplifying tools don't have the skill to create them, and those with the skill don't need them and often can't see the need for them. Hence, they often never get created. K.S. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 14 19:16:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA20495 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 19:16:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA20408 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 02:15:46 GMT (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from pm3h-11.pacificnet.net (pm3h-11.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.108]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA09023 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 19:13:44 -0700 (PDT) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 19:15:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Joey Garcia To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD Queries Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org People have been talking about what they would like from FreeBSD and stuff like that. I have been wondering...I remember way back when I installed (or tried to install) FreeBSD 2.2.2, it installed old versions of Perl and other stuff, when there was a brand new (stable, I think) version of Perl. I think it installed Perl 4.0 when there was a Perl 5.003 at the time. Does the installation process of newer version of FreeBSD do the same, or have they fixed it so that new software versions get installed? I know that Linux was always up to date on things like that, but then again Linux usually gets ported to pretty quick. Anyways....in case that FreeBSD is still slow on getting new software versions installed during installation...maybe it's time that FreeBSD speeds up things like this. But that's only in case they haven't done so already. Just my opinion and stuff, if it matters. :) Joey Bear Garcia =================================================== Joseph Garcia Downey, CA bear@pacificnet.net "Dont drink and drive, you might spill the beer." =================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 14 20:16:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA01460 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 20:16:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA01281 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 03:15:35 GMT (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (pm03-06.aei.ca [206.123.6.156]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA28362; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:15:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35342647.B9DBB081@aei.ca> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:15:19 -0400 From: KapuT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joey Garcia CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: More Promotion Ideas References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > What if instead of just FreeBSD, we create a website for all BSD > derivative OS's? That's another idea that just popped into my head right > now. heh :) I think it would be kewl so that we all can get working > together. I mean "all" as in all the BSD community...no matter if you run > OpenBSD or NetBSD or BSDi. > You dream :-)To my eyes, all BSD are in competition and I think than its different community Malartre > We can create a universal BSD community. It will be up to the users > choice to decide if they want to use FreeBSD, OpenBSD, or NetBSD. > > Maybe and alliance between the BSD communities can be achived to create > such a project. > > What do you think? > > Joey Bear Garcia > > =================================================== > Joseph Garcia > Downey, CA > bear@pacificnet.net > "Dont drink and drive, you might spill the beer." > =================================================== -- --------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5-RELEASE --------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 14 20:20:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA02208 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 20:20:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from firewall.scitec.com.au (firewall-user@fgate.scitec.com.au [203.17.180.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA02174 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 03:20:15 GMT (envelope-from john.saunders@scitec.com.au) Received: by firewall.scitec.com.au; id NAA22953; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:20:08 +1000 (EST) Received: from mailhub.scitec.com.au(203.17.180.131) by fgate.scitec.com.au via smap (3.2) id xma022942; Wed, 15 Apr 98 13:19:44 +1000 Received: from hydra.scitec.com.au (hydra.scitec.com.au [203.17.182.101]) by mailhub.scitec.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA20434 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:19:41 +1000 Received: from scitec.com.au (saruman.scitec.com.au) by hydra.scitec.com.au with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA206780380; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:19:41 +1000 Message-Id: <3534274C.282F0F5B@scitec.com.au> Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:19:40 +1000 From: John Saunders Organization: SCITEC LIMITED X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Queries References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The first FreeBSD that I installed was 2.2.5 and it installed an older version of perl. However in the packages I was able to install perl 5.004_01. The FreeBSD "standard" perl lives in /usr/bin and the installed package goes into /usr/local/bin/perl. I'm not sure why they keep the old version 4 around, probably since it's known to be stable. It's also in the CVS tree so I suppose it gets officialy supported and fixed. Cheers. Joey Garcia wrote: > > People have been talking about what they would like from FreeBSD and stuff > like that. I have been wondering...I remember way back when I installed > (or tried to install) FreeBSD 2.2.2, it installed old versions of Perl and > other stuff, when there was a brand new (stable, I think) version of Perl. > I think it installed Perl 4.0 when there was a Perl 5.003 at the time. > > Does the installation process of newer version of FreeBSD do the same, or > have they fixed it so that new software versions get installed? I know > that Linux was always up to date on things like that, but then again Linux > usually gets ported to pretty quick. > > Anyways....in case that FreeBSD is still slow on getting new software > versions installed during installation...maybe it's time that FreeBSD > speeds up things like this. But that's only in case they haven't done so > already. > > Just my opinion and stuff, if it matters. :) > > Joey Bear Garcia > > =================================================== > Joseph Garcia > Downey, CA > bear@pacificnet.net > "Dont drink and drive, you might spill the beer." > =================================================== > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message -- +------------------------------------------------------------+ . | John Saunders mailto:John.Saunders@scitec.com.au (Work) | ,--_|\ | mailto:john@nlc.net.au (Home) | / Oz \ | http://www.nlc.net.au/~john/ | \_,--\_/ | SCITEC LIMITED Phone +61 2 9428 9563 Fax +61 2 9428 9933 | v | "By the time you make ends meet, they move the ends." | +------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 14 20:22:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA02545 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 20:22:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from endeavor.flash.net (endeavor.flash.net [209.30.0.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA02514 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 03:22:36 GMT (envelope-from anthony@sohopros.com) From: anthony@sohopros.com Received: from anthony.flashnet (fwasc28-146.flash.net [209.30.57.146]) by endeavor.flash.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA20402 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 22:22:30 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980414222100.008351b0@pop.flash.net> X-Sender: anthony@pop.flash.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 22:21:02 -0500 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Promotion Ideas Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >"Dont drink and drive, you might spill the beer." Isn't this the lyrics to a NOFX song? Anthony E. Coley -- Anthony E. Coley Consultant, SohoPros anthony@sohopros.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 14 23:17:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA04482 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:17:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA04476 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 06:17:01 GMT (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Received: from san.rr.com (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA28511; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:16:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Message-ID: <353450D4.2320915B@san.rr.com> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:16:52 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Wolfskill CC: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What do newbies want? References: <199804142342.QAA00806@pau-amma.whistle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I hesitated to respond to this because it might sound like I'm invalidating your experience. However I hope you'll see that's not my intention. David Wolfskill wrote: > Fewer forced references to bizarre PC hardware and M$ "software". > Rather, use of more usual UNIX terminology. I'm still quite unclear > about how "slices" work; I was unable to build a FreeBSD system except > by setting up the disks in dedicated mode. I noticed here and below that you seem to come from a System V background. SysV is not "more usual" than BSD, it's just different. BSD/UFS slices are relatively equivalent to DOS partitions. They aren't necessary at all if you *want* a dedicated disk. > Basically, I don't have time in my life to learn M$ stuff just so I can > understand how to make, use, and administer FreeBSD systems. You don't need to know any microsoft anything to use freebsd. We use microsoft examples in the documentation sometimes to ease people's transition since most PC users are coming from that background. > For that matter, "gratuitous change" reduction would be useful -- I'm > forever checking things on other kinds of systems, then trying to do a > tail -f /var/adm/messages -- which sn't very useful on a FreeBSD box. > (Yeah, I could make a symlink, but I administer a bunch of the boxes. I > suppose I could hack up an amd map, but that would be cruel & unusual.) I'm not sure what you mean by a "gratuitous change." BSD systems put logs in /var/log. SysV puts a lot of things in /var/adm and some in /var/log. I use a lot of different systems too, you learn to adapt. :) > Although I am beginning to unnderstand that the "ports" concept may be > useful for some folks, I'm still rather uncomfortable with it, since I > want o have a single source repository for site-installed software, I don't understand how /usr/ports doesn't live up to that. All the sources are in /usr/ports/distfiles, and the extracted sources are in their own directories. If you're talking about something else, please let me know. > I'm accustomed to doing the various configuration & make things that > need to be done anyway. When I install a port, I usually take a look at the patches first, then do 'make patch' to d/l, extract and patch the sources, then take a look at the readme's and such to see if there are any configuration file options that I want to twiddle. Then I go back to the ports directory and do 'make install clean' when I'm satisfied that things are how I want them. The good thing is that you can make ports as flexible as you want them to be. Use it without input, or configure to your heart's content. :) > It isn't clear that the "ports" approach is all > that useful if FreeBSD isn't the only UNIX flavor around.... I don't know what this means. > As a > consequence, it rarely even occurs to me to see if a "port" exists -- I > fire up ncftp & go to the site where something is, get it, unpackit, & > do the usual stuff.... That's the great thing about freebsd, you can make your life as difficult as you want it to be. :) Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 15 05:17:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA11727 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 05:17:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from symbionics.co.uk (symsun3.symbionics.co.uk [194.32.100.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA09583 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:07:13 GMT (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: from sympc287.symbionics.co.uk by symbionics.co.uk (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06184; Wed, 15 Apr 98 09:52:47 BST Message-Id: <9804150852.AA06184@symbionics.co.uk> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Duncan Barclay" To: The Classiest Man Alive , FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:47:43 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: What do newbies want? Reply-To: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk In-Reply-To: <199804150156.VAA19157@kalypso.cybercom.net> References: <006001bd67fb$ba361280$0300a8c0@admin.cian.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > At 07:19 PM 4/14/98 , Christopher Raven wrote: > > > >Some sort of built in configuration tool that lets you build a > >'complete' desktop enviroment immediately - and without hastles (an > >included .xintrc default script would be a bonus?). Without a shadow > >of a doubt, to most non-CLI people a GUI enviroment is a top priority > >from the word go. > > > >Chris R. > > Have a look at tkdesk or KDE. tkdesk is a program which runs under "normal" X11 and gives you a lot. KDE is a complete window manager and application set built using a consistent widget library and is tightly coupled; i.e. printing works that same across all programmes. KDE is developing fast but is at beta. > I agree with this and I would even take the idea even a bit further. > > * A GUI or CHUI interface for installing _and_ post-installation > configuration. The existing sysinstall has come a long way, but > it's got stretch marks from age and expansion. The library that > it uses is dated, and it could really stand to be rewritten. I am fairly sure this is being addressed; there was a big discussion on -hackers a couple of months back. > > * More sensible defaults. Not just the .xinitrc but many of the /etc > files need modification or editing after installation to get the > expected results. For instance, many users are not connected to a > network, but may want to set up PPP networking. If that's the > case, the network initialization should just be omitted or > commented out upon installation, and PPP setup should be run. This is being covered by some of the sysinstall replacement and some admin tools that are being developed by some guys in russia. > > * Internet readiness. A system should be ready to network rather > quickly after installation is complete. This would mean having > the required networking set up as well as a readily available web > browser, e-mail client, and whatever other goodies a person might > need. We're aware that FreeBSD has The Power to Serve, but we've > also got to make it friendly to use on the client side to attract > the newbie crowd. > More difficult because FreeBSD is ready to network (in fact try and build a kernel with out networking, not impossible but v. hard). You are wanting user level parts of the system to be pre-installed. Well there is /usr/bin/mail for e-mail. Lynx usually gets installed by sysinstall for documentation reading etc. Are you really asking for a ready to use X setup? > * More packages, fewer ports. Though most of the ports are already > in package form, the list isn't complete. Ports (or any other > component that needs to be built rather than extracted) are > daunting to a new user. There should be as little of that for the > novice user as possible. All that ports that can be packaged are. The ports that aren't are not packed for good reasons. Sometimes this is because the package/port is broken and needs fixing, more usually it is because FreeBSD is not allowed by the software license to distribute a package (e.g. the old netscape license, kermit?...) or the port needs site specific configuration that is done via Makefile/C header files. > > All this nit-picking makes me feel like I'm complaining when really > I'm not. The quality of the installer and the config utilities have > improved dramatically since I was first introduced to them, and > they're very good now, enough that I prefer a FreeBSD installation > to a Slackware or Red Hat Linux installation. But if you're > speaking strictly in the interest of newbies, these are areas that I > would improve. > > There's an tremendous irony in the UNIX world that applies here: the > people who need these simplifying tools don't have the skill to > create them, and those with the skill don't need them and often > can't see the need for them. > Hence, they often never get created. Too true. > > K.S. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message Duncan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 15 12:21:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA15610 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:21:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.impulse.net (mail.impulse.net [204.188.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA15601 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 19:21:45 GMT (envelope-from mike@merchantsnet.com) Received: (qmail 9437 invoked from network); 15 Apr 1998 19:21:08 -0000 Received: from sb2-88.impulse.net (HELO 708644668) (204.188.6.88) by mail.impulse.net with SMTP; 15 Apr 1998 19:21:08 -0000 From: "Michael P. Sale" To: Subject: Re: What do newbies want? Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:17:56 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd68a3$3266d580$5806bccc@708644668> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello again all, I have a much smaller, less technical need. Since starting with FreeBSD, I have had lots of questions, with good answers, and a few of "go check out this URL". Seems there is more than one place to look for FreeBSD docs and info. Sometimes even the search on FreeBSD.org is semi painful. I think it would be neat if we had one (1) URL that contained all of the official and UNOFFICIAL URL's to FreeBSD information. Maybe even include all the about to be formed FUG's that just may start popping up. :-) I'm not talking about a page that shows every page of the FreeBSD FAQ, just one that may show the starting URL's of any and all FreeBSD information available. If this allready lives somewhere, I'd love to know where it is. If not and people think it is an idea that may have merrit, I'll host it myself. Nothin fancy, just a page with a bunch of links that have short descriptions after them. Something we can bookmark once instead of having 20 bookmarks to all our FreeBSD info. Take care, Mike ---------------------------------------------- Michael P. Sale MerchantsNet.Com mike@merchantsnet.com www.merchantsnet.com ---------------------------------------------- "Humility has no equal in the battle for knowledge" -- -----Original Message----- From: Duncan Barclay To: The Classiest Man Alive ; FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wednesday, April 15, 1998 5:18 AM Subject: Re: What do newbies want? > At 07:19 PM 4/14/98 , Christopher Raven wrote: > > > >Some sort of built in configuration tool that lets you build a > >'complete' desktop enviroment immediately - and without hastles (an > >included .xintrc default script would be a bonus?). Without a shadow > >of a doubt, to most non-CLI people a GUI enviroment is a top priority > >from the word go. > > > >Chris R. > > Have a look at tkdesk or KDE. tkdesk is a program which runs under "normal" X11 and gives you a lot. KDE is a complete window manager and application set built using a consistent widget library and is tightly coupled; i.e. printing works that same across all programmes. KDE is developing fast but is at beta. > I agree with this and I would even take the idea even a bit further. > > * A GUI or CHUI interface for installing _and_ post-installation > configuration. The existing sysinstall has come a long way, but > it's got stretch marks from age and expansion. The library that > it uses is dated, and it could really stand to be rewritten. I am fairly sure this is being addressed; there was a big discussion on -hackers a couple of months back. > > * More sensible defaults. Not just the .xinitrc but many of the /etc > files need modification or editing after installation to get the > expected results. For instance, many users are not connected to a > network, but may want to set up PPP networking. If that's the > case, the network initialization should just be omitted or > commented out upon installation, and PPP setup should be run. This is being covered by some of the sysinstall replacement and some admin tools that are being developed by some guys in russia. > > * Internet readiness. A system should be ready to network rather > quickly after installation is complete. This would mean having > the required networking set up as well as a readily available web > browser, e-mail client, and whatever other goodies a person might > need. We're aware that FreeBSD has The Power to Serve, but we've > also got to make it friendly to use on the client side to attract > the newbie crowd. > More difficult because FreeBSD is ready to network (in fact try and build a kernel with out networking, not impossible but v. hard). You are wanting user level parts of the system to be pre-installed. Well there is /usr/bin/mail for e-mail. Lynx usually gets installed by sysinstall for documentation reading etc. Are you really asking for a ready to use X setup? > * More packages, fewer ports. Though most of the ports are already > in package form, the list isn't complete. Ports (or any other > component that needs to be built rather than extracted) are > daunting to a new user. There should be as little of that for the > novice user as possible. All that ports that can be packaged are. The ports that aren't are not packed for good reasons. Sometimes this is because the package/port is broken and needs fixing, more usually it is because FreeBSD is not allowed by the software license to distribute a package (e.g. the old netscape license, kermit?...) or the port needs site specific configuration that is done via Makefile/C header files. > > All this nit-picking makes me feel like I'm complaining when really > I'm not. The quality of the installer and the config utilities have > improved dramatically since I was first introduced to them, and > they're very good now, enough that I prefer a FreeBSD installation > to a Slackware or Red Hat Linux installation. But if you're > speaking strictly in the interest of newbies, these are areas that I > would improve. > > There's an tremendous irony in the UNIX world that applies here: the > people who need these simplifying tools don't have the skill to > create them, and those with the skill don't need them and often > can't see the need for them. > Hence, they often never get created. Too true. > > K.S. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message Duncan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 15 12:42:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA20974 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:42:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from login-2.eunet.no (0@login-2.eunet.no [193.71.71.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA20910 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 19:41:50 GMT (envelope-from havardjv@gudmund.vgs.no) Received: from arwen.myst.no (pc34.bergen-pm2-1.eunet.no [193.75.12.41]) by login-2.eunet.no (8.8.8/8.8.3/Torbjorn) with ESMTP id VAA12079; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 21:41:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (hjv@localhost) by arwen.myst.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA00315; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 18:30:32 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from havardjv@gudmund.vgs.no) X-Authentication-Warning: arwen.myst.no: hjv owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 18:30:32 +0200 (CEST) From: Haavard Vaagstoel X-Sender: hjv@arwen.myst.no To: Joey Garcia cc: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What do newbies want? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, Joey Garcia wrote: > Coming from a GUI enviroment...(Windows)...I feel that GUI is very > important. Most of the stuff I do depends on a GUI enviroment. KDE is a > great enviroment for people migrating from Windows or something. It takes > some work to set up, and if you are compiling it from the source...then > you will need alot of spare time (unless you're on a Pentium II 333 or > something). > > Anyways, I agree with you...more GUI setup help would be good. I have > found that the easiest way to set up X is by using this program called > XF86Setup, because xf86config is just way too confusing. Ah, yes, XF86Setup is colorful, mouse controlled and probably more simple to understand right away if you're coming from MS Windows. There are downs of it, though. As far as I can recall, it has nowhere near the number of options found in xf86config (which, in turn, lacks many of the possible options that can be set in the XF86Config file manually). If GUI setup tools shall really be a help to people, they need to offer them the lot -- they must give the opportunity to set any option that for instance can be set by modifying the config files. In short, they must be "good enough". If they are not, we stand the risk that these tools will rather limit the users control of his system, than making it more easy. -- Haavard Vaagstoel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 15 14:04:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14123 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:04:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA14101 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 21:04:08 GMT (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA02444; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 07:03:56 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980416070352.06193@welearn.com.au> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 07:03:53 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: "Michael P. Sale" Cc: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What do newbies want? References: <01bd68a3$3266d580$5806bccc@708644668> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <01bd68a3$3266d580$5806bccc@708644668>; from Michael P. Sale on Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 12:17:56PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 12:17:56PM -0700, Michael P. Sale wrote: > I have a much smaller, less technical need. Since starting with FreeBSD, I > have had lots of questions, with good answers, and a few of "go check out > this URL". Seems there is more than one place to look for FreeBSD docs and > info. Sometimes even the search on FreeBSD.org is semi painful. I think it > would be neat if we had one (1) URL that contained all of the official and > UNOFFICIAL URL's to FreeBSD information. Something like this is very close to being available. It is a list of the documentation and learning resources that are most useful for newbies, both on and off line, both FreeBSD-specific and more general material. We discussed it here a couple of weeks ago and several people offered URLs and books that they had found helpful. If you have anything you'd like to suggest be included, please let me know, especially if there is something elsewhere on the web that I might have overlooked. The draft of is web page should be available by the weekend and its temporary location will be announced here and in FreeBSD-doc. A few days later it should have a permanent home on the FreeBSD web site, and that URL will be given in the Newbies FAK. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 15 16:08:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA11133 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 16:08:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from edu.gte.net (edu.gte.net [206.124.68.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA11114 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 23:07:48 GMT (envelope-from stumpie@edu.gte.net) Received: from 1Cust208.tnt13.sfo3.da.uu.net by edu.gte.net with SMTP (1.38.193.5/16.2) id AA00892; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 18:07:43 -0500 Message-Id: <35353DA4.3A05@edu.gte.net> Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 16:07:16 -0700 From: Stumpie X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What do newbies want? References: <01bd68a3$3266d580$5806bccc@708644668> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Michael P. Sale wrote: > Nothin fancy, just a page with a bunch of links that have short descriptions > after them. Something we can bookmark once instead of having 20 bookmarks > to all our FreeBSD info. I'll second this notion. I'm at the stage now where I have FreeBSD installed, I can login as root, and I can maneuver around a little bit. I have 4 CD ROMs full of stuff and Greg Lehey's book as a crutch. Now I'm trying to get X-Windows installed, without much success. I went over some of the installation suggestions in the book and nothing looks familiar. I subscribed to from a suggestion in the book, and then came over here to <-newbies> when it started up. Now, from just reading the mail, I have two impressions. First, the <-questions> folks don't particularly wish to hear questions from rank beginners like me for the umteenth time. Nor do I want to bother them with my questions. Second, the <-newbies> list wants chat, not necessarily questions. So, I would suggest that newbies want, and need, is a list or a place to go to get the most basic questions answered. While the Lehey book is excellect, I'm at a "now what do I do" stage. BTW, so as to inconvenience as few people as possible, if someone would like to help me with this problem, please contact me off list. TIA Regards, Paul To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 15 17:18:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA03057 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 17:18:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA02880 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 17:18:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA03169; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:17:39 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980416101736.01336@welearn.com.au> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:17:36 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Stumpie Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Questions [was: What do newbies want?] References: <01bd68a3$3266d580$5806bccc@708644668> <35353DA4.3A05@edu.gte.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <35353DA4.3A05@edu.gte.net>; from Stumpie on Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 04:07:16PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 04:07:16PM -0700, Stumpie wrote: > I subscribed to from a suggestion in the book, and then came over > here to <-newbies> when it started up. Now, from just reading the mail, I have two > impressions. > > First, the <-questions> folks don't particularly wish to hear questions from rank > beginners like me for the umteenth time. This is something we really need to talk about. Would you mind following it through here a bit? I'm sure some other newbies will chime in :-) What is it, exactly, that gives you that impression? We're going to need to pinpoint it and describe it as well as possible, but from a NEWBIES perspective (without outside influence or argument), before anyone can start to find some really valid solutions. This may take some time. Are you saying that they don't want to hear beginners' questions? If so, why do you think that is? Are you saying that they want to hear them, but only the first time? If so, what do you think is their reasoning, and is it valid or not? Do you think their preference is a good thing, or a bad thing? Why? > Nor do I want to bother them with my questions. Could you expand on that one a little too? Is it that you don't want to ask questions, or don't want to ask them there, or is it something about your own questions in particular? > Second, the <-newbies> list wants chat, not necessarily questions. > > So, I would suggest that newbies want, and need, is a list or a place to > go to get the most basic questions answered. While the Lehey book is > excellect, I'm at a "now what do I do" stage. Agreed. Is there a problem with freebsd-questions? If so, this is about the only place we can discuss it on our own and work out what could make it better. Unless we take that first step, I don't see how anybody can help us. Another thing I've been thinking about.... Some of our newbie questions are because we don't know about FreeBSD, while others are because we don't know about unix. It's pretty important to separate those two whenever we can (and often we can't) because it helps a lot when we try to work out ways to make being a newbie easier. > BTW, so as to inconvenience as few people as possible, if someone would like to help me > with this problem, please contact me off list. If you're referring to the problem of asking -questions, this is the right place for it. I think we need to discuss it at our own pace, without being shepherded or pre-empted by people who answer questions, to work out what all the problems are and what the causes might be. We might also need space to let off a bit of steam, say a few things we regret and retract them later, just to get it all out where we can look at it. I believe we will find real solutions and enough support from others to implement them, but as usual the hardest part is defining the problem. If you agree, go for it. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 15 17:45:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA14357 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 17:45:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.impulse.net (mail.impulse.net [204.188.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA14255 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 17:45:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@merchantsnet.com) Received: (qmail 5602 invoked from network); 16 Apr 1998 00:45:13 -0000 Received: from sb2-95.impulse.net (HELO 708644668) (204.188.6.95) by mail.impulse.net with SMTP; 16 Apr 1998 00:45:13 -0000 From: "Michael P. Sale" To: "Sue Blake" Cc: Subject: Re: What do newbies want? Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 17:42:02 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd68d0$78c98180$5f06bccc@708644668> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----Original Message----- From: Sue Blake To: Michael P. Sale Cc: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wednesday, April 15, 1998 2:04 PM Subject: Re: What do newbies want? >On Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 12:17:56PM -0700, Michael P. Sale wrote: > >> I have a much smaller, less technical need. Since starting with FreeBSD, I >> have had lots of questions, with good answers, and a few of "go check out >> this URL". Seems there is more than one place to look for FreeBSD docs and >> info. Sometimes even the search on FreeBSD.org is semi painful. I think it >> would be neat if we had one (1) URL that contained all of the official and >> UNOFFICIAL URL's to FreeBSD information. > > >Something like this is very close to being available. It is a list of >the documentation and learning resources that are most useful for newbies, >both on and off line, both FreeBSD-specific and more general material. >We discussed it here a couple of weeks ago and several people offered URLs >and books that they had found helpful. If you have anything you'd like to >suggest be included, please let me know, especially if there is something >elsewhere on the web that I might have overlooked. > >The draft of is web page should be available by the weekend and its >temporary location will be announced here and in FreeBSD-doc. A few days >later it should have a permanent home on the FreeBSD web site, and that URL >will be given in the Newbies FAK. > Great!! I'm sorry I missed the thread. I guess I'll have to go back and check my mbox. :-) I'm looking foward to seeing the site. Mike > >-- > >Regards, > -*Sue*- > >find / -name "*.conf" |more > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 16 07:19:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA13176 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 07:19:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kalypso.cybercom.net (kalypso.cybercom.net [209.21.136.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA13171 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 07:19:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ksmm@cybercom.net) Received: from atlanta (mfd-dial1-20.cybercom.net [209.21.137.20]) by kalypso.cybercom.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA26681 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:18:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199804161418.KAA26681@kalypso.cybercom.net> X-Sender: ksmm@cybercom.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 08:01:13 -0400 To: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: The Classiest Man Alive Subject: Re: What do newbies want? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:07 PM 4/15/98 , you wrote: >First, the <-questions> folks don't particularly wish to hear questions from >rank beginners like me for the umteenth time. Nor do I want to bother them >with my questions. Sometimes it takes thick skin to get stomach some of the responses you'll get from Questions. Not everyone means to be harsh with a terse answer, though; people are often just pressed for time or forget that novice users need that extra little push. (That's why we need a separate set of programmers and PR people.) Just keep pressing for the info you need, and don't worry if you bother anybody. As long as you're asking legitimate FreeBSD related questions, you have every right to ask them, and anyone who doesn't like it can unsubscribe. K.S. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 16 07:27:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA14028 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 07:27:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from login-2.eunet.no (0@login-2.eunet.no [193.71.71.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA14003 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 07:26:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from havardjv@gudmund.vgs.no) Received: from arwen.myst.no (pc46.bergen-pm2-1.eunet.no [193.75.12.53]) by login-2.eunet.no (8.8.8/8.8.3/Torbjorn) with ESMTP id QAA01351; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:26:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (hjv@localhost) by arwen.myst.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA00296; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:15:12 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from havardjv@gudmund.vgs.no) X-Authentication-Warning: arwen.myst.no: hjv owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:15:12 +0200 (CEST) From: Haavard Vaagstoel X-Sender: hjv@arwen.myst.no To: Stumpie cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What do newbies want? In-Reply-To: <35353DA4.3A05@edu.gte.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, Stumpie wrote: > So, I would suggest that newbies want, and need, is a list or a place to go to get the > most basic questions answered. While the Lehey book is excellect, I'm at a "now what > do I do" stage. Well, remember that there are lots and lots of *possible* problems; it would indeed be a job... that's the advantage of a newbie list where questions can be asked. You can get the answer to *that exact* thing that you were wondering about. -- Haavard Vaagstoel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 16 08:24:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA24087 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 08:24:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mx1.polbox.com (mx1.polbox.com [195.116.5.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA24064 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 08:24:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sbns@polbox.com) Received: from smtp.polbox.com (ppp4-55.warszawa.tpnet.pl [195.205.246.55]) by mx1.polbox.com (8.8.8/rev-A0) with SMTP id RAA01562 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:28:07 +0200 Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:13:44 +0100 From: "Zdzislaw A. Kaleta" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.00 Build 1333) UNREG Reply-To: "Zdzislaw A. Kaleta" Organization: SBNS Ltd. Message-ID: <12717.980416@polbox.com> To: FreeBSD newbies Subject: Fwd: Re[2]: screenshot X-Redirected-By: Zdzislaw A. Kaleta Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, (cut) JV> Someone must really attempt a "screenshot" of a standard 80x25 console and JV> put it up as well... ;-) (cut) No problem simply imagine black monitor with something like "$" in left down corner. It is like DOS screen. Everything else is add in. Best regards, Zdzislaw mailto:sbns@polbox.com --------------- [ REKLAMA / ADVERTISEMENT ] ------------------ Polbox otwiera w Warszawie siec 12 wezlow Internetowych. Wiecej informacji pod adresem http://www.polbox.pl/98info.html -------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 16 14:20:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA06682 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:20:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from m7.sprynet.com (m7.sprynet.com [165.121.2.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA06415; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:19:23 GMT (envelope-from connecte@sprynet.com) Received: from sprynet.com (lindnew.sbu.edu [149.76.25.9]) by m7.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03654; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:19:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3536762B.66DEF2AD@sprynet.com> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:20:43 -0400 From: Matthew Taylor X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Where the heck is my sysconfig? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I seem to have no /etc/sysconfig file (???). I take it this is a bad thing. I order that I add an IP address to my box, I need to edit this missing file, yes? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 16 14:34:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA12836 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:34:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpham.uni-mb.si (alpham.uni-mb.si [164.8.1.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA12749; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:34:17 GMT (envelope-from vrtin@uni-mb.si) Received: from unicorn.uni-mb.si by alpham.uni-mb.si (PMDF V5.1-9 #7554) with ESMTP id <01IVYE5FE71S00041D@alpham.uni-mb.si>; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:34:07 MET Received: from localhost (david@localhost) by unicorn.uni-mb.si (8.8.8/8.8.8/19980312) with SMTP id XAA18571; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:34:05 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:34:02 +0200 (CEST) From: David Vrtin Subject: Re: Where the heck is my sysconfig? In-reply-to: <3536762B.66DEF2AD@sprynet.com> To: Matthew Taylor Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: David Vrtin Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-No-Archive: Yes Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Matthew Taylor wrote: > I seem to have no /etc/sysconfig file (???). I take it this is a bad > thing. I order that I add an IP address to my box, I need to edit this > missing file, yes? /etc/rc.conf David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 16 14:48:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA16525 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:48:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tera.com (tera.tera.com [207.108.223.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA16514; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:48:16 GMT (envelope-from kline@tao.thought.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tera.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with UUCP id OAA25504; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:47:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from kline@localhost) by tao.thought.org (8.8.5/8.7.3) id OAA13869; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:37:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Kline Message-Id: <199804162137.OAA13869@tao.thought.org> Subject: Re: Where the heck is my sysconfig? In-Reply-To: <3536762B.66DEF2AD@sprynet.com> from Matthew Taylor at "Apr 16, 98 05:20:43 pm" To: connecte@sprynet.com (Matthew Taylor) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:37:10 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: <> thought.org: public access uNix in service... <> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Matthew Taylor: > I seem to have no /etc/sysconfig file (???). I take it this is a bad > thing. I order that I add an IP address to my box, I need to edit this > missing file, yes? > > If you have /etc/rc.conf, that's it... gary -- Gary D. Kline kline@tao.thought.org Public service uNix To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 16 14:51:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17251 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:51:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA17195 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:51:29 GMT (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@pm01-16.aei.ca [206.123.6.116]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA03400; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:51:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35367D5B.E82FEDA9@aei.ca> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:51:23 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Zdzislaw A. Kaleta" CC: FreeBSD newbies Subject: Re: Fwd: Re[2]: screenshot References: <12717.980416@polbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org There's a screen shot on http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/#2.1 Its not a GUI screen shot, but the screen shot of the login cya Malartre Zdzislaw A. Kaleta wrote: > Hello, > > (cut) > JV> Someone must really attempt a "screenshot" of a standard 80x25 console and > JV> put it up as well... ;-) > > (cut) > No problem simply imagine black monitor with something like "$" in > left down corner. It is like DOS screen. Everything else is add in. > > Best regards, > Zdzislaw mailto:sbns@polbox.com > > --------------- [ REKLAMA / ADVERTISEMENT ] ------------------ > Polbox otwiera w Warszawie siec 12 wezlow Internetowych. > Wiecej informacji pod adresem http://www.polbox.pl/98info.html > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message -- --------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5-RELEASE --------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 16 15:08:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22806 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:08:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from i3se0101.is.chbs.ciba.com (ns2.ibo.ch [194.191.169.76]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA22716 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 22:08:23 GMT (envelope-from neal.tillery@cp.Novartis.com) From: neal.tillery@cp.Novartis.com Received: from mailhub by i3se0101.is.chbs.ciba.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/12Mar96-0208PM) id AA24869; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:07:40 +0200 Received: from pp-banzai-chbs.cp.chbs (pp-banzai-chbs.cp.chbs [168.246.161.82]) by mta3.is.chbs (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA14864 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:08:20 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199804162208.AAA14864@mta3.is.chbs> Received: by pp-banzai-chbs.cp.chbs with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:08:42 +0200 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Questions [was: What do newbies want?] Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:01:42 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > ---------- > From: Sue Blake[SMTP:sue@welearn.com.au] > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 1998 7:17 PM > To: Stumpie > Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Questions [was: What do newbies want?] > > On Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 04:07:16PM -0700, Stumpie wrote: > > > I subscribed to from a suggestion in the book, > and then came over > > here to <-newbies> when it started up. Now, from just reading the > mail, I have two > > impressions. > > > > First, the <-questions> folks don't particularly wish to hear > questions from rank > > beginners like me for the umteenth time. > > This is something we really need to talk about. Would you mind > following it > through here a bit? I'm sure some other newbies will chime in :-) > > What is it, exactly, that gives you that impression? We're going to > need to > pinpoint it and describe it as well as possible, but from a NEWBIES > perspective (without outside influence or argument), before anyone can > start > to find some really valid solutions. This may take some time. > > Are you saying that they don't want to hear beginners' questions? If > so, why > do you think that is? > > Are you saying that they want to hear them, but only the first time? > If so, > what do you think is their reasoning, and is it valid or not? > > Do you think their preference is a good thing, or a bad thing? Why? > > > > > I can understand someone's frustration at just answering one question > in depth, only to have someone else ask it a week later. When I ask a > question I want to make it clear that I have exhausted all other means > of fixing the problem and freebsd-questions is my last resort. For > example, I have a problem with PPP on my home computer. This is not > the run of mill PPP problem. I've tried to search the Mailing List > archives and Newsgroups, but because the problem is so specific and to > amount of posts on PPP in the archive, its frustrating to find what I > need, if it even exists to start with. > > I think a better explanation of the search system on the FreeBSD site > and how to utilize it to gain more precise information would be a good > place to start. The Help section doesn't cut it; basic AND and OR > operators are not enough. Something more powerful is needed. This > would benefit both the newbies and question mailing lists. Newbies > can get the answers to there question easier. Those questions that > newbies ask are more then likely something new or something not easy > to fix for a new user with the given material they have. If there is > something like this, it needs to be announced more often. If not, > then I'd be willing to write up "A New Users Guide to Mailing List > Searches". > > Neal > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 16 15:33:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA29319 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:33:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pigstuy ([207.113.85.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA29195; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 22:33:16 GMT (envelope-from spork@cncn.com) Received: from localhost (spork@localhost) by pigstuy (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA00306; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 18:31:19 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from spork@cncn.com) X-Authentication-Warning: pigstuy: spork owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 18:31:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Spike Gronim X-Sender: spork@pigstuy Reply-To: spork To: Matthew Taylor cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where the heck is my sysconfig? In-Reply-To: <3536762B.66DEF2AD@sprynet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Matthew Taylor wrote: > I seem to have no /etc/sysconfig file (???). I take it this is a bad > thing. I order that I add an IP address to my box, I need to edit this > missing file, yes? > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > > /etc/sysconfig is now /etc/rc.conf -Spike Gronim spork@cncn.com "Hacker, n: One who hacks real good" --Computer Contradictionary To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 16 16:18:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA10125 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:18:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA09938 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:18:00 GMT (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA07844; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:17:42 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980417091740.13877@welearn.com.au> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:17:40 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: neal.tillery@cp.Novartis.com Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Questions [was: What do newbies want?] References: <199804162208.AAA14864@mta3.is.chbs> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <199804162208.AAA14864@mta3.is.chbs>; from neal.tillery@cp.Novartis.com on Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 12:01:42AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 12:01:42AM +0200, neal.tillery@cp.Novartis.com wrote: > > I can understand someone's frustration at just answering one question > in depth, only to have someone else ask it a week later. When I ask a > question I want to make it clear that I have exhausted all other means > of fixing the problem and freebsd-questions is my last resort. For > example, I have a problem with PPP on my home computer. This is not > the run of mill PPP problem. I've tried to search the Mailing List > archives and Newsgroups, but because the problem is so specific and to > amount of posts on PPP in the archive, its frustrating to find what I > need, if it even exists to start with. Brian Somers has a good one-stop-ppp-shop somewhere at http://www.awfulhak.org which points to all the good helpful stuff. I'll check what the proper URL for this page is. > I think a better explanation of the search system on the FreeBSD site > and how to utilize it to gain more precise information would be a good > place to start. The Help section doesn't cut it; basic AND and OR > operators are not enough. Something more powerful is needed. This > would benefit both the newbies and question mailing lists. Newbies > can get the answers to there question easier. Those questions that > newbies ask are more then likely something new or something not easy > to fix for a new user with the given material they have. If there is > something like this, it needs to be announced more often. If not, > then I'd be willing to write up "A New Users Guide to Mailing List > Searches". You make some very good points about the mailing list archive search. The good news is that all of these problems have been identified and our database experts are working on them right now, determined to come up with a much improved search facility. The bad news is that it's a big job and it might take a bit of time to do it the best possible way. I guess we just have to use it however we can for now, and not worry about documenting it too much until we see how the new one works. After whining about it for ages, I've had some good success with it lately. Pot luck? Or was it listening? :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 16 18:24:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA08255 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 18:24:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mx.seanet.com (dns2.seanet.com [199.181.164.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA08233 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:24:35 GMT (envelope-from bashby@seanet.com) Received: from default (k25.dialup.seanet.com [207.12.129.249]) by mx.seanet.com (8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA10718 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 18:24:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000b01bd699f$62af15c0$f9810ccf@default> From: "Bob Ashby" To: Subject: Running X Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 18:23:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is getting annoying. I have loaded FreeBSD 2.2.5 so far everything works well from root. I established a usr (me) when I log on as a user I can't run "startx" even when I cd /usr/X11R6/bin and ls the directory to make sure that the file is there and type "startx" I can not get it to start. Is there any help for me? Bob Ashby "Walk in peace, fore they shall know us only by the tracks we leave" ICQ #7553080 Wolf Grafx Raven Research http://www.seanet.com/~bashby To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 16 20:09:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA29323 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:09:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from const. (tulip8.verinet.com [199.45.181.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA29302; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 03:09:32 GMT (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: (from allenc@localhost) by const. (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA02009; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:53:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from allenc) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:53:44 -0600 (MDT) From: allen campbell Message-Id: <199804170253.UAA02009@const.> To: connecte@sprynet.com, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where the heck is my sysconfig? Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3536762B.66DEF2AD@sprynet.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > I seem to have no /etc/sysconfig file (???). I take it this is a bad > thing. I order that I add an IP address to my box, I need to edit this > missing file, yes? > /etc/sysconfig has been replaced by /etc/rc.conf. Where did you find a reference to /etc/sysconfig? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 16 20:48:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA07063 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:48:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA06985 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 03:48:32 GMT (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from ale (pm3g-23.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.72]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA23141 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:46:28 -0700 (PDT) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980416204748.0069b578@pacificnet.net> X-Sender: bear@pacificnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:47:48 -0700 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Joey Garcia Subject: email needed Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Just in case if one of you guys have that email I sent about "Promoting FreeBSD", I wanted to forward it to freebsd-advocacy. I like deleted all my outgoing messages so now I don't have a copy of it. If any of you has it...can ya forward it to me or to freebsd-advocacy? If not I'll just rewrite it. Thanks. Joey Bear Garcia To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 16 21:25:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA13412 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:25:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from edu.gte.net (edu.gte.net [206.124.68.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA13400 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 04:25:19 GMT (envelope-from stumpie@edu.gte.net) Received: from 1Cust101.tnt11.sfo3.da.uu.net by edu.gte.net with SMTP (1.38.193.5/16.2) id AA18327; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:25:16 -0500 Message-Id: <3536D992.450F@edu.gte.net> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:24:50 -0700 From: Stumpie X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Bob Ashby Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Running X References: <000b01bd699f$62af15c0$f9810ccf@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Bob Ashby wrote: > > This is getting annoying. I have loaded FreeBSD 2.2.5 so far everything > works well from root. I established a usr (me) when I log on as a user I > can't run "startx" even when I cd /usr/X11R6/bin and ls the directory to > make sure that the file is there and type "startx" I can not get it to > start. Is there any help for me? I can relate to that. I've been loging in as root. I got into x config and ran that program. When I entered startx from root, I got the following error message. ld.so failed can't find shared library "libxmu.so.6.0" Do I have to run startx from /usr/x11r6/bin? Do I have to login as a user other than root? I told you I was green. ;-) Regards, Paul To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 16 21:52:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA16675 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:52:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA16666 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 04:52:12 GMT (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA08936; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:52:01 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980417145158.63207@welearn.com.au> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:51:58 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Stumpie Cc: Bob Ashby , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Running X References: <000b01bd699f$62af15c0$f9810ccf@default> <3536D992.450F@edu.gte.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <3536D992.450F@edu.gte.net>; from Stumpie on Thu, Apr 16, 1998 at 09:24:50PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Apr 16, 1998 at 09:24:50PM -0700, Stumpie wrote: > Bob Ashby wrote: > > > > This is getting annoying. I have loaded FreeBSD 2.2.5 so far everything > > works well from root. I established a usr (me) when I log on as a user I > > can't run "startx" even when I cd /usr/X11R6/bin and ls the directory to > > make sure that the file is there and type "startx" I can not get it to > > start. Is there any help for me? > > I can relate to that. I've been loging in as root. I got into x config and ran > that program. When I entered startx from root, I got the following error message. > > ld.so failed can't find shared library "libxmu.so.6.0" > > Do I have to run startx from /usr/x11r6/bin? Do I have to login as a user other > than root? > > I told you I was green. ;-) Well don't worry about your colour :-) Take your questions over to freebsd-questions and 1) you'll get answers 2) other people greener than you will see the answers too 3) other smart people will check that the answers are the correct ones 4) we can carry on with our non-technical stuff in -newbies If you're in any doubt at all, read http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/ -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Apr 17 12:28:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08486 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:28:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA08416 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 19:28:37 GMT (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from localhost (fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA28048; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:28:27 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:28:27 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Stumpie cc: Bob Ashby , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Running X In-Reply-To: <3536D992.450F@edu.gte.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Stumpie wrote: > Bob Ashby wrote: > > > > This is getting annoying. I have loaded FreeBSD 2.2.5 so far everything > > works well from root. I established a usr (me) when I log on as a user I > > can't run "startx" even when I cd /usr/X11R6/bin and ls the directory to > > make sure that the file is there and type "startx" I can not get it to > > start. Is there any help for me? /usr/X11R6/bin probably isn't in your path. Try cd'ing to /usr/X11R6/bin and typing: % ./startx If that fails, you may have a problem with the permissions on startx, or X, or some other files. > I can relate to that. I've been loging in as root. I got into x config and ran > that program. When I entered startx from root, I got the following error message. > > ld.so failed can't find shared library "libxmu.so.6.0" > > Do I have to run startx from /usr/x11r6/bin? Do I have to login as a user other > than root? Try running these two commands: % ldconfig -m /usr/X11R6/lib (this adds /usr/X11R6/lib to the lib path) % ldconfig -R (this scans through the lib path for libraries) The second command is needed because you need to rescan after you add a new directory. > > I told you I was green. ;-) He... You don't even WANT to go into some of the green (and often very black ;) things I did back when I started running FreeBSD. I'm not all that 'un-newbie' nowadays, but don't tell my boss ;). > > Regards, > > Paul > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Apr 17 13:00:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16160 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:00:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA16140 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 20:00:34 GMT (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id MAA24836 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:59:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com(207.76.205.64) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma024834; Fri Apr 17 12:59:53 1998 Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA12044 for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:59:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:59:53 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199804171959.MAA12044@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Running X Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:28:27 -0500 (CDT) >From: "Matthew D. Fuller" >/usr/X11R6/bin probably isn't in your path.... Another approach to determining whether or not a given program is likely to be found if you try to execute it (and if so, where it is), is to use the csh (and tcsh -- maybe others) "shell built-in" command "which": pau-amma[2]% which startx xinit X which /usr/X11R6/bin/startx /usr/X11R6/bin/xinit /usr/X11R6/bin/X which: shell built-in command. pau-amma[3]% For folks of sufficient;y twisted mindsets, it's also possible to use the output of "which" as the input of something else: pau-amma[3]% file `!!` file `which startx xinit X which` /usr/X11R6/bin/startx: Bourne shell script text /usr/X11R6/bin/xinit: FreeBSD/i386 compact demand paged dynamically linked executable /usr/X11R6/bin/X: symbolic link to /usr/X11R6/bin/XF86_S3V which:: can't stat `which:' (No such file or directory). shell: can't stat `shell' (No such file or directory). built-in: can't stat `built-in' (No such file or directory). command.: can't stat `command.' (No such file or directory). pau-amma[4]% (Sometimes, it's useful to know when a given program's whimpers & complaints are safe to ignore....) Now that you know that startx is a script, "less `which startx`" will let you take a look at it (assuming, of course, that it's in your path, and that "less" is also in your path -- you could use "more" rather than "less"... but we don't need to go into that right now...). For sh (& similar shells, I believe), there's a command that has similar functionality, called "type". (And if you're running one of those shells, there's a "which" Perl script in /usr/bin, though this seems to be a FreeBSDism, so don't rely on it if you happen to be using some other platform.) Hope that helps folks figure things out a little better, david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Apr 17 20:30:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA19461 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 20:30:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA19442 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 03:30:32 GMT (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA14713 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 13:30:23 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 13:30:23 +1000 (EST) From: Sue Blake Message-Id: <199804180330.NAA14713@phoenix.welearn.com.au> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD Newbies FAK Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FreeBSD-Newbies First Aid Kit (Last updated 18 April 1998) This is a regular posting to the FreeBSD-Newbies mailing list. It is also available at http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/ FreeBSD-Newbies is a discussion forum for newbies. We cover any of the activities of newbies that are not already dealt with elsewhere. Examples include helping each other to learn more on our own, finding and using resources, problem solving techniques, how to seek help elsewhere, how to use mailing lists and which lists to use, general chat, making mistakes, boasting, sharing ideas, stories, moral (but not technical) support, promoting FreeBSD among our friends, and taking an active part in the FreeBSD community. We take our problems and support questions to freebsd-questions, and use freebsd-newbies to meet others who are doing the same things that we do as newbies. One of the things we do together is learn more effective ways to find help when we need it. Here are some suggestions: When something doesn't work the way you expect 1. First look at the errata for your release of FreeBSD at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for the latest information and security advisories. 2. Search the Handbook, FAQ, and mail archives at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/search.html 3. If you still have a question or problem, collect the output of `uname -a' and of any relevant program(s) and email your question to FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. Mailing lists When you have a problem that you can't solve by yourself, there's only one support mailing list and that's FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. You don't have to actually join freebsd-questions before asking a question there. Replies to your question will normally be sent to you personally as well as to the list. Just make sure you have read and followed the guidelines for posting, because you might find them different to what you're used to. If you do subscribe to freebsd-questions you'll have the advantage of seeing all of the recent questions and their answers. Before you post to FreeBSD-questions, please read the guidelines at http://www.lemis.com/questions.html Many of the people who answer FreeBSD-questions are very knowledgeable, but they get frustrated when they get questions which are difficult to understand. http://www.lemis.com/email.html is worth reading too. If you're not sure that you can follow these guidelines, come back and ask the other newbies for help on how to post an effective question to the support mailing list. Maybe your question has been asked before. If you search the mailing list archives at http://www.freebsd.org/search.html first you might get the answer right away. It's always worth trying. Other mailing lists (http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/handbook317.html) cover specialised areas and many are more developer-oriented. You'll need to read their charters carefully before participating, but it's probably a good idea to ask on either -newbies or -questions for advice about where to post a more specialised question. Manuals You'll always be expected show that you have made some effort to use the available documentation before asking for help. That's not always as easy as it sounds! If you know what documentation you need but can't locate it, send a brief query to FreeBSD-questions. If you don't know what you need, always have trouble finding it, or can't make any sense of it when you do, ask some patient newbies to steer you in the right direction. Anyone interested in writing or reviewing documentation for FreeBSD is encouraged to join the FreeBSD Documentation Project. Details are at http://www.freebsd.org/docproj.html Other resources A resource list is currently being put together. It will include books, on line documents and tutorials, and links to web pages that other newbies have found useful for learning. If you have a suggestion for good material to be included, please write to freebsd-newbies and tell us about it. But I have seen people asking questions here! It is quite common for people to send the wrong kind of post to a mailing list. Because we're newbies it'll certainly happen here from time to time. The best thing to do if you see a message that doesn't belong on a list is to ignore it. There's always someone around whose job it is to sort these problems out privately. The posts to the lists go straight through, whatever their content. It is going to be confusing for a little while because we're all newbies so we all make mistakes. That's OK. One thing we're going to see a fair bit is people posting questions, believing they're doing the right thing by posting here as newbies, not realising how it works. If someone answers those questions the situation will snowball. There's nothing wrong with helping someone to redirect their question to freebsd-questions, but please do so gently. There's nothing wrong with the occasional mistake either. So all questions, requests for help, etc still go to freebsd-questions as usual. Ours is more of a discussion group, a place where newbies can relax with other newbies and focus more on our successes than on our temporary imperfection. We can talk about things here that are not allowed on freebsd-questions. We're also a bit freer to make the mistakes that we need to make in order to learn. _________________________________________________________________ To Subscribe to FreeBSD-Newbies: Send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "subscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message. Mail sent to freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org appears on the mailing list. _________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Apr 18 07:17:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA15833 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 07:17:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pagesz.net (root@nina.pagesz.net [208.194.157.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA15812 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 14:17:54 GMT (envelope-from jferg@2boot.com) Received: from .pagesz.net (isabella-36.pagesz.net [208.194.157.36]) by pagesz.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA12057 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 10:17:49 -0400 Date: Sat, 18 Apr 98 10:12:03 PDT From: joe ferguson To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG X-PRIORITY: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: Chameleon 4.6.3, TCP/IP for Windows, NetManage Inc. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org unsubscribe . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Apr 18 18:40:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA18981 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 18:40:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA18967 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 01:40:06 GMT (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA17603; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 11:38:42 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980419113839.48477@welearn.com.au> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 11:38:39 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Newbies Resource List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Take a look at http://ahimsa.welearn.com.au/work/index.html It won't be there for long. Comments? -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Apr 18 21:18:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA07506 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 21:18:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA07482; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 04:18:53 GMT (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@aeiusrD-04.aei.ca [206.186.204.154]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA08913; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 00:18:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35397B1C.F90974D8@aei.ca> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 00:18:36 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: #freebsd-newbies on effnet. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Someone is interested to give bots for a #freebsd-newbies channel on effnet? I think it should be a place for (maybe stupid) question about any newbie-related-thing anyone interested to support it? cya Malartre (sorry for the cross-mailling on 2 mailling list) -- --------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5-RELEASE --------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Apr 18 21:33:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA08592 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 21:33:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA08568; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 04:33:54 GMT (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from mustang (pm3h-18.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.115]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA22454; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 21:31:47 -0700 (PDT) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 21:32:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Joey Garcia X-Sender: bear@mustang To: Malartre cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies on effnet. In-Reply-To: <35397B1C.F90974D8@aei.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Effnet is too much of a pain....we'd have to worry about channel takeovers and BS like that. Wouldnt Dalnet's services be more suitable? Joey Garcia =================================================== Joseph Garcia Downey, CA bear@pacificnet.net "Dont drink and drive, you might spill the beer." =================================================== On Sun, 19 Apr 1998, Malartre wrote: > Someone is interested to give bots for a #freebsd-newbies channel on > effnet? > > I think it should be a place for (maybe stupid) question about any > newbie-related-thing > > anyone interested to support it? > cya > Malartre > > (sorry for the cross-mailling on 2 mailling list) > > > -- > --------------------------------------------------- > malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 > www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project > Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5-RELEASE > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Apr 18 21:43:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA09929 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 21:43:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA09921 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 04:43:45 GMT (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA18056; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:42:11 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980419144206.16618@welearn.com.au> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:42:06 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Malartre Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies on effnet. References: <35397B1C.F90974D8@aei.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <35397B1C.F90974D8@aei.ca>; from Malartre on Sun, Apr 19, 1998 at 12:18:36AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Apr 19, 1998 at 12:18:36AM -0400, Malartre wrote: > Someone is interested to give bots for a #freebsd-newbies channel on > effnet? Oh? First you told us it was #BSD-Newbies, then #BSD-Help, and now you're saying #freebsd-newbies? Hmmm... no wonder I couldn't find it :-) > I think it should be a place for (maybe stupid) question about any > newbie-related-thing Who is going to answer the questions? What hours are they going to be available? Or is it going to be newbies advising other newbies? If I go to that channel and someone there tells me to run a particular command, how do I know it is safe? That makes me nervous, what about you? > anyone interested to support it? Sure, it's a great idea, but let's get it well planned. This isn't a company we're dealing with. Everything we want depends on volunteers, and you know what that means :-) You want to see something happen, you do it yourself. If you can do it with the help of other newbies, fine, you organise it. Encourage other newbies to help you, keep in touch with them, work out between you who is going to do what. It's all up to you, we don't have any shcoolmasters here :-) It can be a bit hard for newbies because there's a lot we can't do without others helping, and they only have so much time to help us if they are already following their own good ideas, etc. Still, we have seen that there *is* a lot we can do! It just takes energy and the ability to plan and organise, and keep on working at it. A few weeks ago we saw a number of people volunteer to help each other. Did anyone follow this up? Did the volunteers sit back and wait to be asked to do something? Did the other people wait for the volunteers to offer a second time? This might feel like normal polite behaviour, but it won't work in our case. You have this list to do your chatting, and you have each other's email addresses now, so don't be shy and don't wait to be told what to do! > (sorry for the cross-mailling on 2 mailling list) I'm not sure how this is relevant to -chat so I'm just replying to -newbies. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Apr 18 21:44:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA10010 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 21:44:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA09983; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 04:44:21 GMT (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@aeiusrD-04.aei.ca [206.186.204.154]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA10289; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 00:44:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35398112.5150D78@aei.ca> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 00:44:02 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joey Garcia CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies on effnet. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Joey Garcia wrote: > Effnet is too much of a pain....we'd have to worry about channel takeovers > and BS like that. Wouldnt Dalnet's services be more suitable? > I dont think so: the main channel is on effnet. There is no one on undernet and dalnet :-/And who wish to takeover freebsd-newbies? and if that appen, find som ircop who run freebsd ;-)))))))))))))))) hehe cya Malartre > Joey Garcia > > =================================================== > Joseph Garcia > Downey, CA > bear@pacificnet.net > "Dont drink and drive, you might spill the beer." > =================================================== > > On Sun, 19 Apr 1998, Malartre wrote: > > > Someone is interested to give bots for a #freebsd-newbies channel on > > effnet? > > > > I think it should be a place for (maybe stupid) question about any > > newbie-related-thing > > > > anyone interested to support it? > > cya > > Malartre > > > > (sorry for the cross-mailling on 2 mailling list) > > > > > > -- > > --------------------------------------------------- > > malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 > > www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project > > Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5-RELEASE > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > -- --------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5-RELEASE --------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Apr 18 22:50:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA19065 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 22:50:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA19059 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 05:50:13 GMT (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@aeiusrD-04.aei.ca [206.186.204.154]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA13852; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 01:49:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3539906F.AD54E6BD@aei.ca> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 01:49:35 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies on effnet. References: <35397B1C.F90974D8@aei.ca> <19980419144206.16618@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue Blake wrote: > On Sun, Apr 19, 1998 at 12:18:36AM -0400, Malartre wrote: > > Someone is interested to give bots for a #freebsd-newbies channel on > > effnet? > > Oh? First you told us it was #BSD-Newbies, then #BSD-Help, and now you're > saying #freebsd-newbies? Hmmm... no wonder I couldn't find it :-) > > > I think it should be a place for (maybe stupid) question about any > > newbie-related-thing > > Who is going to answer the questions? What hours are they going to be > available? Or is it going to be newbies advising other newbies? > > If I go to that channel and someone there tells me to run a particular > command, how do I know it is safe? That makes me nervous, what about you? > > > anyone interested to support it? > > Sure, it's a great idea, but let's get it well planned. > > This isn't a company we're dealing with. Everything we want depends on > volunteers, and you know what that means :-) You want to see something > happen, you do it yourself. If you can do it with the help of other newbies, > fine, you organise it. Encourage other newbies to help you, keep in touch > with them, work out between you who is going to do what. It's all up to you, > we don't have any shcoolmasters here :-) > > It can be a bit hard for newbies because there's a lot we can't do without > others helping, and they only have so much time to help us if they are > already following their own good ideas, etc. Still, we have seen that there > *is* a lot we can do! It just takes energy and the ability to plan and > organise, and keep on working at it. > > A few weeks ago we saw a number of people volunteer to help each other. Did > anyone follow this up? Did the volunteers sit back and wait to be asked to > do something? Did the other people wait for the volunteers to offer a second > time? This might feel like normal polite behaviour, but it won't work in our > case. You have this list to do your chatting, and you have each other's > email addresses now, so don't be shy and don't wait to be told what to do! > > > (sorry for the cross-mailling on 2 mailling list) > > I'm not sure how this is relevant to -chat so I'm just replying to -newbies. > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > find / -name "*.conf" |more > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message Yeah, just a change to fit with the list ;-) Dont know, I dont think than more advanced user are interested, so just a newbie chat. Malartre -- --------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5-RELEASE --------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Apr 18 23:25:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA23067 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 23:25:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA23062 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 06:25:29 GMT (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA18442; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:25:17 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980419162514.36530@welearn.com.au> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:25:14 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Malartre Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies on effnet. References: <35397B1C.F90974D8@aei.ca> <19980419144206.16618@welearn.com.au> <3539906F.AD54E6BD@aei.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <3539906F.AD54E6BD@aei.ca>; from Malartre on Sun, Apr 19, 1998 at 01:49:35AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Apr 19, 1998 at 01:49:35AM -0400, Malartre wrote: > > Dont know, I dont think than more advanced user are interested, so just a newbie > chat. OK, so let us know where it is, what it's called and what hours you are likely to be there. At least that's a start. Then other people can say what time they can be there, and we might have enough people to keep it open most of the time and we can tell people about FreeBSD, maybe answer some easy questions, tell them where to go, stuff like that. How does that sound? If there's a few other people interested, I'd like to come along too! All you have to do is organise it and make it easy for people to help. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message