From owner-freebsd-atm Mon Jul 26 19:54:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-atm@freebsd.org Received: from sand2.sentex.ca (sand2.sentex.ca [209.167.248.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCA47152A8 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 19:54:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from gravel (ospf-wat.sentex.net [209.167.248.81]) by sand2.sentex.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA18469 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 22:52:08 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Message-Id: <4.1.19990726222130.03ca7500@granite.sentex.ca> X-Sender: mdtancsa@granite.sentex.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:04:17 -0400 To: atm@FreeBSD.ORG From: Mike Tancsa Subject: NIC questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-atm@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, We will soon be bringing up an ATM connection into a MAN and would like to use our FreeBSD 3.x to terminate our connection. We will want to map out multiple PVCs with a total cell rate of ~45Mbps. We would like to provide traffic shaping as well on the various connections. I had a look through the archives, and people seem to be happy with the Adeptec cards. However, looking on their web site, I dont see too much mention of their adapters. Are they getting out of the business ? What cards would people recommend today ? Also, some other questions: Will I run into compatibility issues mapping out PVCs to other ends when the other end is not a FreeBSD box. I am just starting to investigate the ATM world, and I dont know what sort of inter operability issues I will run into (if any) Is ALTQ the QOS method of choice for this situation ? I have so far read through the archives as far back as a year, and am not sure what has changed since then. i.e. whether to go with BSDATM vs. HARP ? Where can I find more information, such as if single mode fiber comes into the building, but the interface is multimode (in this case the ENI), what can I do to make it compatible. ? Thanks for any insights / directions you can share, ---Mike ********************************************************************** Mike Tancsa, Network Admin * mike@sentex.net Sentex Communications Corp, * http://www.sentex.net/mike Cambridge, Ontario * 01.519.651.3400 Canada * To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-atm" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-atm Mon Jul 26 21:34:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-atm@freebsd.org Received: from nexus6.source.net (nexus6.source.net [206.100.10.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 975AB14BFF for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 21:34:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rh@source.net) Received: from nexus6.source.net (nexus6.source.net [206.100.10.4]) by nexus6.source.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA16044; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 21:34:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 21:34:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Hodges To: Mike Tancsa Cc: atm@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NIC questions In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990726222130.03ca7500@granite.sentex.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-atm@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 26 Jul 1999, Mike Tancsa wrote: > Hello, > We will soon be bringing up an ATM connection into a MAN and would like to > use our FreeBSD 3.x to terminate our connection. We will want to map out > multiple PVCs with a total cell rate of ~45Mbps. We would like to provide > traffic shaping as well on the various connections. I had a look through > the archives, and people seem to be happy with the Adeptec cards. You currently have a choice of the "en" driver or the HARP system, both of which use "routed" PDU encapsulation. Many, many commercial products want "bridged" encapsulation, so be sure to ask what your other end will be using. Also ask if they will use SNAP/LLC headers (they probably will). The "en" driver works great with Adaptec and Efficient 155mb cards. HARP works with Efficient or Fore PCA200E (not "LE") cards. In principle (!) HARP could be persuaded to work with the Adaptec cards. According to Chuck Cranor, his "en" driver is much more robust if you are using Efficient. Although I am no kernel guru, I have become somewhat familiar with his code, and I think I would agree with him. > Will I run into compatibility issues mapping out PVCs to other ends when > the other end is not a FreeBSD box. I am just starting to investigate the > ATM world, and I dont know what sort of inter operability issues I will run > into (if any) Beware of the difference between routed and bridged PDU encapsulation. By the way, most people will probably be talking about RFC1483 encapsulation, but PPP over ATM seems to be gathering popularity. I do not know of any current FreeBSD implementation of PPP/ATM :-( > Is ALTQ the QOS method of choice for this situation ? Good question. Hopefully someone better informed than I will answer. > I have so far read through the archives as far back as a year, and am not > sure what has changed since then. i.e. whether to go with BSDATM vs. HARP ? For PVC support, I would probably consider Chuck's "en" driver over HARP. > Where can I find more information, such as if single mode fiber comes into > the building, but the interface is multimode (in this case the ENI), what > can I do to make it compatible. ? Digi has a media adapter, I think it costs more than a thousand, though. You could get a Fore OC3 SM card, but that will cost even more. Argh. An ATM switch with SM would be yet more expensive. Sorry, no good ideas. All the best, -Richard ------------------------------------------------------------- Richard Hodges | Any sufficiently large group of people SourceNet / Alpine | is indistinguishable from idiots. rh@source.net | - OR - finger for pgp key | "Masses are asses." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-atm" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-atm Tue Jul 27 10: 2: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-atm@freebsd.org Received: from granite.sentex.net (granite.sentex.ca [199.212.134.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9261414CF7 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 10:01:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from simoeon (simeon.sentex.ca [209.112.4.47]) by granite.sentex.net (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA19446; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:01:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990727130004.01c9f3c0@staff.sentex.ca> X-Sender: mdtpop@staff.sentex.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:00:04 -0400 To: Richard Hodges From: Mike Tancsa Subject: Re: NIC questions Cc: atm@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990726222130.03ca7500@granite.sentex.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-atm@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >You currently have a choice of the "en" driver or the HARP system, both of >which use "routed" PDU encapsulation. Many, many commercial products want >"bridged" encapsulation, so be sure to ask what your other end will be >using. Also ask if they will use SNAP/LLC headers (they probably will). The other ends will be most likely all Cisco Catalysts. As I mentioned before, I am just getting my feet into the ATM world, and I dont even know the questions ask, or to know if the questions I am going to ask is off the wall, so please bear with me :-) Can an ATM network have a mixture of encapsulation methods ? i.e. if I do routed encapsulation, does the other device have to only speak routed ? or can it speak a mixture ? i.e. routed to me, and bridged to other PVCs that I am not interested in. >The "en" driver works great with Adaptec and Efficient 155mb cards. HARP >works with Efficient or Fore PCA200E (not "LE") cards. In principle (!) >HARP could be persuaded to work with the Adaptec cards. Apart from the Adaptec cards, are there any other cards based on the Efficient card ? Someone mentioned on the list that the SMC works. Thanks for taking the time to shed light on this matter. As I said, I am just starting out to research this all and figure out if FreeBSD can do what I want it to do in this situation, which is provide a low cost alternative to deploying Catalysts at all my small sites. ---Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mike Tancsa, tel 01.519.651.3400 Network Administrator, mike@sentex.net Sentex Communications www.sentex.net Cambridge, Ontario Canada To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-atm" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-atm Tue Jul 27 13: 6: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-atm@freebsd.org Received: from plains.NoDak.edu (plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88C1A153CF for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:05:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu) Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.NoDak.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA27670; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 15:05:47 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 15:05:47 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199907272005.PAA27670@plains.NoDak.edu> To: mike@sentex.net, rh@source.net Subject: Re: NIC questions Cc: atm@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-atm@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org our ATM code is in its infancy. the network stack and driver are in seperate modules, but are written for each other. each package was driven by different goals and funding. my pie in the sky observation is that we need to do is integrate the packages and choose the seperate the stacks per virtual circuit. ie VPI/VCI 0/40 is IP over ATM using HARP, 0/62 is native ATM using the WU stack, 0/35 is MPOA, 0/92 is PPP over ATM, 0/44 is RFC1483, etc. As best i can tell, it would be difficult to determine what the traffic type is automatically like ethernet does, because there are no equivalent to the ethernet type field in these protocols, though some sniffers figure it out by watching traffic...I think we would have to have a virtual circuit equivalent to "ifconfig" to set the protocol. enough rambling. on the wire: there are different line stack protocols for LANEv1, LANEv2 (with or without MPOA), PPP over AAL. even for RFC1483 SNAP/LLC has a routed and bridged modes. what you are trying to do: sounds like you are trying to make a edge device. edge devices differ for each protocol. FreeBSD does not have a LANE or MPOA stacks (though the Linux stack has a Berkeley-style copywrite, that may be hammered somewhere into our code seems possible). PC as software switches: the bad thing about using PC for small switches is that the cell interrupt rate to reconstruct PDUs would make you want to use the ATM card's Sequencer and Re-assembler (SAR). then you have to wait for the whole PDU to be constructed routed and then re-transmitted. new latencies and traffic shaping problems. you also have to be aware of the protocol that you are routing (which may not be a problem if you are moving only IPv4 around). home stations: another driving force for ATM in FreeBSD is xDSL services. DSL uses SNAP/LLC (which appears to be real easy addition) and/or PPP over ATM (a kernel-only implementation would be moderately easy). some vendors claim support for RFC2225 (was RFC1577) Classic IP over ATM and Native ATM, but IMO, these are could-a, should-a would-a marketing talk. these are all my opinions. --mark. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-atm" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-atm Tue Jul 27 13:35:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-atm@freebsd.org Received: from granite.sentex.net (granite.sentex.ca [199.212.134.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D560151EC for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:35:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from simoeon (simeon.sentex.ca [209.112.4.47]) by granite.sentex.net (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA20082; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:34:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990727163350.015b6a60@staff.sentex.ca> X-Sender: mdtpop@staff.sentex.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:33:50 -0400 To: Mark Tinguely From: Mike Tancsa Subject: Re: NIC questions Cc: atm@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199907272005.PAA27670@plains.NoDak.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-atm@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 03:05 PM 7/27/99 -0500, Mark Tinguely wrote: > >our ATM code is in its infancy. the network stack and driver are in seperate Thanks for your insights. As I explained before, I dont pretend to understand much of ATM, but given the info you have provided me, I can at least compare it to what I have in my books! >what you are trying to do: > Yes, essentially, we have a cheap fiber connect through our local hydro company. OC3 into the MAN for ~$1000 USD with unlimited PVCs. On our end, and our customer's ends, we can use pretty well whatever we like for ATM edge devices. Typically, what the Hydros and others sell are about $10K worth of Cisco gear on either end. If we can get this price down, there would be a lot more potential customers. Futhermore, with FreeBSD, we can add all the services they need in one box.... Packet filtering firewall, mail server, ftp and web server, as well as VPN type applications. > >PC as software switches: > >the bad thing about using PC for small switches is that the cell interrupt I would imagine the estimated life span on the switch on our end would be at least a good year. If we can get 45Mbp performance out of it over several PVCs, I think it will do us well. In a years time, a higher end dedicated ATM switch might be the way to go, and might be at a lower price. However, for most of these customers, 1-10Mb for the forseable future (1-2yrs) is plenty. (we still have some manufacturing sites who are happy with their UUCP connection to us and dont see the need to change?!?!) > >these are all my opinions. They are appriciated! ---Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mike Tancsa, tel 01.519.651.3400 Network Administrator, mike@sentex.net Sentex Communications www.sentex.net Cambridge, Ontario Canada To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-atm" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-atm Tue Jul 27 13:42:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-atm@freebsd.org Received: from mercury.dnai.com (mercury.dnai.com [207.181.194.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72ED2153BD for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:42:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aditya@mercury.dnai.com) Received: from mercury (aditya@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.dnai.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA15644; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:40:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907272040.NAA15644@mercury.dnai.com> To: atm@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Mark Tinguely From: "R.P. Aditya" Reply-To: "R.P. Aditya" Subject: Re: NIC questions In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 27 Jul 1999 15:05:47 -0500. <199907272005.PAA27670@plains.NoDak.edu> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:40:11 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-atm@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > home stations: > > another driving force for ATM in FreeBSD is xDSL services. DSL uses SNAP/LLC > (which appears to be real easy addition) and/or PPP over ATM (a kernel-only > implementation would be moderately easy). some vendors claim support for > RFC2225 (was RFC1577) Classic IP over ATM and Native ATM, but IMO, these > are could-a, should-a would-a marketing talk. www.xpeed.com -- they claim to have a PCI NIC with drivers for *BSD (vaporware as far as I can tell, so far) that will have SDSL support by the end of the year for Nokia/DiamondLane DSLAMs (they currently support Copper Mountain DSLAMs). I'd like to do PPP-over-ATM with such NICs and a kernel-only-implementation would be wonderful... Thanks, Adi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-atm" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-atm Fri Jul 30 8:14:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-atm@freebsd.org Received: from btm4r4.alcatel.be (btm4r4.alcatel.be [195.207.101.110]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65ED514C9A for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 08:14:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from livensw@rc.bel.alcatel.be) Received: from btmq9s.rc.bel.alcatel.be (btmq9s.rc.bel.alcatel.be [138.203.65.182]) by btm4r4.alcatel.be (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA08657; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 17:13:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from btm0uk.rc.bel.alcatel.be (btm0uk [138.203.64.189]) by btmq9s.rc.bel.alcatel.be (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA07595; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 17:16:17 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from livensw@localhost) by btm0uk.rc.bel.alcatel.be (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) id RAA09347; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 17:14:02 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 17:14:02 +0200 From: Wim Livens To: Mike Tancsa Cc: freebsd-atm@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NIC questions Message-ID: <19990730171402.I20292@rc.bel.alcatel.be> References: <4.1.19990726222130.03ca7500@granite.sentex.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990726222130.03ca7500@granite.sentex.ca>; from Mike Tancsa on Mon, Jul 26, 1999 at 11:04:17PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-atm@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jul 26, 1999 at 11:04:17PM -0400, Mike Tancsa wrote: > Where can I find more information, such as if single mode fiber comes into > the building, but the interface is multimode (in this case the ENI), what > can I do to make it compatible. ? I've had the same problem, connecting multimode NICs to a singlemode switch. This was all in one room so I just used multimode fiber from the NIC to the switch and whatever fiber with an attenuator ($50) in the other direction. It was a trial and error thing but it's working now for over two years without any problem. You might have a problem in the NIC to outside direction. Connecting MM fiber to SM fiber will loose almost all of the signal but it might work if you use single mode fiber up to the NIC and use as little as possible connectors (they all loose some signal). -- Wim Livens. Alcatel - Corporate Research Center wim.livens@alcatel.be Fr. Wellesplein 1 livensw@rc.bel.alcatel.be B-2018 Antwerpen Tel: +32 3 240 7570 Belgium. Fax: +32 3 240 9932 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-atm" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-atm Fri Jul 30 8:32:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-atm@freebsd.org Received: from granite.sentex.net (granite.sentex.ca [199.212.134.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0768156E0 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 08:32:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from simoeon (simeon.sentex.ca [209.112.4.47]) by granite.sentex.net (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA23983; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:32:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990730113117.01b912f0@staff.sentex.ca> X-Sender: mdtpop@staff.sentex.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:31:17 -0400 To: Wim Livens From: Mike Tancsa Subject: Re: NIC questions Cc: freebsd-atm@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <19990730171402.I20292@rc.bel.alcatel.be> References: <4.1.19990726222130.03ca7500@granite.sentex.ca> <4.1.19990726222130.03ca7500@granite.sentex.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-atm@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I've had the same problem, connecting multimode NICs to a >singlemode switch. This was all in one room so I just used multimode >fiber from the NIC to the switch and whatever fiber with an attenuator >($50) in the other direction. It was a trial and error thing but it's >working now for over two years without any problem. Thanks for the interesting tip! I sort of solved my problem, in that the HydroElectric company (the one laying the fiber and providing cheap ATM access) made the issue go away in that as part of their service, they include the necessary device to go from single mode to UTP, so I can order the ATM card with that interface. ---Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mike Tancsa, tel 01.519.651.3400 Network Administrator, mike@sentex.net Sentex Communications www.sentex.net Cambridge, Ontario Canada To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-atm" in the body of the message