From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 04:56:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA26204 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 04:56:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA26197; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 04:56:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 04:56:32 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902141256.EAA26197@hub.freebsd.org> From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" To: naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <7a2i48$md2$1@mips.rhein-neckar.de> (naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de) Subject: Re: Linus on IRC References: <79t6uv$1kq$1@mips.rhein-neckar.de> <7a2i48$md2$1@mips.rhein-neckar.de> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > From: naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de (Christian Weisgerber) > Date: 13 Feb 1999 01:48:08 +0100 > > I suggest less fanaticism and more rationality. And folks, please let's > drop the unwarranted ad hominem attacks. Lately, with the rising anti- > Microsoft sentiments, people paint Bill Gates as some kind of devil. > This is absurd. Mr. Gates is simply a very successful business man. > Whether due to great ability or sheer luck I can't tell and I don't > particularly care about. Now similar mud slinging appears in the BSD > community directed against Linus Torvalds. and richard nixon was just a very successful president. let's not harp upon the illegal activities of they people. jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 06:12:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA01171 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 06:12:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA01164; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 06:12:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 06:12:13 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902141412.GAA01164@hub.freebsd.org> From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" To: tlambert@primenet.com CC: naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199902132245.PAA00182@usr02.primenet.com> (message from Terry Lambert on Sat, 13 Feb 1999 22:45:11 +0000 (GMT)) Subject: Re: Linus on IRC References: <199902132245.PAA00182@usr02.primenet.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > From: Terry Lambert > Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 22:45:11 +0000 (GMT) > > Yes, it is, from a commercial standpoint. So is BSD. Both of them > have interfaces that change far too frequently to be worthwhile > porting all the software that exists to them. You write something > for DOS or Windows, and it continues to run forever. Same for for very short values of forever unless you discount unscheduled reboots. ;) jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 11:00:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26331 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:00:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA26326 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:00:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id MAA01046; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:00:02 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:59:58 -0700 To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com, Gary Kline From: Brett Glass Subject: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990213134206.A10635@mooseriver.com> References: <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:42 PM 2/13/99 -0800, Josef Grosch wrote: >*NOTE* This has been moved to chat. > >BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) is also involved in this. BAFUG has >been coordating the Linux people here in the Bay Area to pull this >off. And the Linux people are doing everything in their power to make sure that the public thinks EVERYONE there is a Linux user. Note that the press report you quoted mentions ONLY Linux! My belief is that they intend to play the users of other operating systems who show up for patsies -- use them to strengthen the impression that everyone at the event uses Linux, and only Linux. It's also worth noting that the Bay Area organizers are telling users of alternative operating systems that are NOT "open source" that they must do "separate" protests. This includes BSDi, as well as Solaris, BeOs, OS/2, NetWare, etc. They are also making sure that the URL that's popularized as having information about the event is the URL of a site devoted to Linux. They're turning the event not into a genuine protest against Microsoft's tactics but rather into a publicity stunt for their one alternative. BAFUG should make DARN sure that the press knows it's there. Better bring BIG banners with "FreeBSD" and the daemon logo displayed prominently -- not to mention disks, buttons, and T-shirts, if possible. And TALK to the press -- as much as the Linuxoids, if not more so. Don't let the Linux "handlers" be the only ones represented in the reports. You can bet that the rabid Linux zealots will try to give the impression that everyone there is a Linux user, or that BSD is somehow "the same as" Linux and need not be mentioned. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 11:46:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA00863 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:46:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from orcrist.mediacity.com (orcrist.mediacity.com [208.138.36.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA00854 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:46:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@orcrist.mediacity.com) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by orcrist.mediacity.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA05290; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:46:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:46:02 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: Brett Glass Cc: jgrosch@mooseriver.com, Gary Kline , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics Message-ID: <19990214114602.P22179@orcrist.mediacity.com> References: <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <19990213134206.A10635@mooseriver.com> <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 11:59:58AM -0700 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 11:59:58AM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 01:42 PM 2/13/99 -0800, Josef Grosch wrote: > > >BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) is also involved in this. BAFUG has > >been coordating the Linux people here in the Bay Area to pull this > >off. > > And the Linux people are doing everything in their power to make sure > that the public thinks EVERYONE there is a Linux user. Note that the > press report you quoted mentions ONLY Linux! My belief is that they > intend to play the users of other operating systems who show up for > patsies -- use them to strengthen the impression that everyone at > the event uses Linux, and only Linux. Brett, your zealotry has reached unprecedented heights. Please keep all harping about the evils of Linux limited to GPL/FSF/Stallman- related topics. Those at least make sense and are within the realm of possibility. >From the very first paragraph of , the Bay Area refund organization: "If you are a user of Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, or another free/Open Source operating system, you may be entitled to a refund for unused Microsoft products bundled with your computer." The Bay Area movement, and Rick Moen in particular, has done a fantastic job of uniting different OS camps in this effort, achieving that goal without any sniping between camps (until you had to shoot off your mouth/fingers). Just admit that, for this one day, all Open Source (and even all non-Microsoft) OSes have a common enemy. If you can't do that, then just shut up and let the rest of us try to get our money back. You can resume your regular tirade on February 16th. Regards, Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Bureaucrats cut red tape -- lengthwise. mailto:gsutter@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 12:21:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA04233 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:21:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA04228 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:21:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id NAA01663; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:21:38 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990214130237.00a618d0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:21:28 -0700 To: Gregory Sutter From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics Cc: jgrosch@mooseriver.com, Gary Kline , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990214114602.P22179@orcrist.mediacity.com> References: <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <19990213134206.A10635@mooseriver.com> <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:46 AM 2/14/99 -0800, Gregory Sutter wrote: >Brett, your zealotry has reached unprecedented heights. Please keep >all harping about the evils of Linux limited to GPL/FSF/Stallman- >related topics. Those at least make sense and are within the realm >of possibility. Greg, your credulousness has reached unprecedented depths. Please make sure you know of what you speak before you say anything. >>From the very first paragraph of , the >Bay Area refund organization: > >"If you are a user of Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, or another >free/Open Source operating system, you may be entitled to a refund >for unused Microsoft products bundled with your computer." This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Users of BSDI, SCO, Solaris, BeOS, OS/2, and NetWare are likewise entitled to refunds. Yet Rick Moen, a Linux zealot whose Web site is named (characteristically) "linuxmafia", refuses to allow users of these OSes to participate in his event. He has agreed to allow users of the BSDs to participate, but then conveniently fails to mention that they're involved when he speaks to the press. Look at the press reports that have been generated from his group's effort! Funny how they don't mention FreeBSD, or any OS other than Linux, at all. Guess why. >The Bay Area movement, and Rick Moen in particular, has done a >fantastic job of uniting different OS camps in this effort, achieving >that goal without any sniping between camps (until you had to shoot >off your mouth/fingers). Nonsense. Rick has alienated users of commercial alternative OSes by specifically stating, on their Web site, that they are not welcome to participate but instead are invited to mount "separate" efforts. In a message on the Appraising Microsoft mailing list, Rick wrote: |We're not "dividing people": We're just organising open-source OS |users who wish to return their unused, unwanted, bundled Microsoft |software covered by an appropriate EULA. If you don't like that for |any reason, that's fine, too: Feel free to run your own effort in |your own way. In short, "We're not dividing people, but you are not welcome because you don't run one of the OSes we've deemed acceptable." I tried to get a group of NetWare admins to come and participate, but when the first few I spoke to saw Rick's Web page, and saw the exclusionary language, they declined. >Just admit that, for this one day, all Open >Source (and even all non-Microsoft) OSes have a common enemy. I will, but Rick won't. And you can bet that, when the press comes to call, he'll promote this as a Linux-only effort, making the BAFUG members and organizers feel foolish for lending their support. But if they're going to go, the BAFUG folks had darn well better make themselves noticed, buttonhole reporters, and make a REDOUBLED effort to make sure that this event isn't perceived as Linux-only. Because that's Rick's goal, denials to the contrary. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 12:23:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA04552 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:23:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA04547 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:23:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA96429; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:22:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199902142022.MAA96429@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Gregory Sutter cc: Brett Glass , jgrosch@mooseriver.com, Gary Kline , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:46:02 PST." <19990214114602.P22179@orcrist.mediacity.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:22:25 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I will not be a bad idea if FreeBSD folks decide to show which I doubt for they love to hang out on the FreeBSD mailing lists to indeed wear a FreeBSD T-Shirt --- if you have one of course 8) Have Fun, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 12:30:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA05657 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:30:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA05649 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:30:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id NAA01759; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:30:12 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990214132540.00a5f4b0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:30:06 -0700 To: Amancio Hasty , Gregory Sutter From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics Cc: jgrosch@mooseriver.com, Gary Kline , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902142022.MAA96429@rah.star-gate.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:22 PM 2/14/99 -0800, Amancio Hasty wrote: >I will not be a bad idea if FreeBSD folks decide to show which I doubt >for they love to hang out on the FreeBSD mailing lists to indeed >wear a FreeBSD T-Shirt --- if you have one of course 8) I think that's a great idea. Are FreeBSD buttons available? (If not, it should be easy to take some readily available artwork and make some.) But it's still important to talk directly to the press. Many of the press people there (especially those who are NOT from computer trade pubs) won't know that a picture of Chuck The Besneakered Daemon represents something other than Linux. (They may even mistakenly believe that it represents Microsoft and/or Bill Gates.) They'd better make the point that FreeBSD is the "other, better free UNIX." Or, again, they'll be seen as supporting Linux and will have been played for fools. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 12:55:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07520 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:55:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles146.castles.com [208.214.165.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA07510; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:55:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA05249; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:50:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199902142050.MAA05249@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Brett Glass cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:30:06 MST." <4.1.19990214132540.00a5f4b0@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:50:48 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > At 12:22 PM 2/14/99 -0800, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > >I will not be a bad idea if FreeBSD folks decide to show which I doubt > >for they love to hang out on the FreeBSD mailing lists to indeed > >wear a FreeBSD T-Shirt --- if you have one of course 8) > > I think that's a great idea. Are FreeBSD buttons available? (If not, > it should be easy to take some readily available artwork and make some.) Not yet. I'm thinking I really ought to go, even though Vacaville is a damn long way to come from. I'll go through the WC offices and grab some promo stuff (stickers are my favorite tool), but I don't think I could manage tshirts or hats at this point. I'll see what I can do - I would hope that not too many prospective FreeBSD hat-orderes would mind that their hats had been preworn for an hour or two in a major protest. > But it's still important to talk directly to the press. Many of the > press people there (especially those who are NOT from computer trade > pubs) won't know that a picture of Chuck The Besneakered Daemon represents > something other than Linux. (They may even mistakenly believe that > it represents Microsoft and/or Bill Gates.) They'd better make the > point that FreeBSD is the "other, better free UNIX." Or, again, they'll > be seen as supporting Linux and will have been played for fools. Brett - will _you_ be there? For all your irritation, you know how to handle these people, as well as spot them. Remember that most of us are tech types; give us a break. I'll be at the Oakland staging area I expect. (Cursing that we don't have the Daemon Babe outfits yet...) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 13:10:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA09614 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:10:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA09605; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:10:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA02069; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:08:40 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990214140038.00b231c0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:08:33 -0700 To: Mike Smith From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902142050.MAA05249@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:50 PM 2/14/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >Brett - will _you_ be there? I'll be in Southern California. I was originally going to go to the Bay Area. But when I saw the FAQ and my friends the NetWare admins opted out (and also opted out of arranging to bring more NetWare people), I decided to stay in LA, where I'll already be on a consulting job. I'll have to fight traffic to get to one of their sites; traffic there is NASTY. >For all your irritation, you know how to >handle these people, as well as spot them. Remember that most of us are >tech types; give us a break. It's not hard. One of the best way is to have something WRITTEN to hand them, so that when they gather their notes the information is there. I'd recommend anything you have about FreeBSD, including the booklet that comes inside the CD-ROM. Copies of positive reviews will also get their attention, as will a simple "What is FreeBSD?" FAQ. Remember, about 3/4ths of the COMPUTER trade press has never heard of FreeBSD, and I expect that the number of people in the MAINSTREAM press who have heard of it is so vanishingly small as to be negligible. Just getting a mention in the stories that run on the major newswires would be invaluable. >I'll be at the Oakland staging area I expect. (Cursing that we don't >have the Daemon Babe outfits yet...) You're not talking about the blonde female daemon character that recently popped up in Daemon News, are you? ;-) --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 13:11:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA09738 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:11:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from germanium.xtalwind.net (germanium.xtalwind.net [205.160.242.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA09733 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:11:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jack@germanium.xtalwind.net) Received: from localhost (jack@localhost) by germanium.xtalwind.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA00367; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:10:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:10:05 -0500 (EST) From: jack To: Mike Smith cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics In-Reply-To: <199902142050.MAA05249@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Today Mike Smith wrote: > Not yet. I'm thinking I really ought to go, even though Vacaville is > a damn long way to come from. I'll go through the WC offices and grab > some promo stuff (stickers are my favorite tool), but I don't think I > could manage tshirts or hats at this point. I'll see what I can do - I > would hope that not too many prospective FreeBSD hat-orderes would mind > that their hats had been preworn for an hour or two in a major protest. That should make them command a premium price. Especially if they get bloody in the fracas. :) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack O'Neill Systems Administrator / Systems Analyst jack@germanium.xtalwind.net Crystal Wind Communications, Inc. Finger jack@germanium.xtalwind.net for my PGP key. PGP Key fingerprint = F6 C4 E6 D4 2F 15 A7 67 FD 09 E9 3C 5F CC EB CD enriched, vcard, HTML messages > /dev/null -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 13:22:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA10762 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:22:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles146.castles.com [208.214.165.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA10757 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:22:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05424; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:18:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199902142118.NAA05424@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Brett Glass cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:08:33 MST." <4.1.19990214140038.00b231c0@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:18:19 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > It's not hard. One of the best way is to have something WRITTEN > to hand them, so that when they gather their notes the information is > there. I'd recommend anything you have about FreeBSD, including the > booklet that comes inside the CD-ROM. Copies of positive reviews > will also get their attention, as will a simple "What is FreeBSD?" > FAQ. Remember, about 3/4ths of the COMPUTER trade press has never heard > of FreeBSD, and I expect that the number of people in the MAINSTREAM press > who have heard of it is so vanishingly small as to be negligible. Just > getting a mention in the stories that run on the major newswires would be > invaluable. Ok. I think we have some text we did for Comdex; I'll hit Jordan about it (he's just a shade busy right now...). > >I'll be at the Oakland staging area I expect. (Cursing that we don't > >have the Daemon Babe outfits yet...) > > You're not talking about the blonde female daemon character that recently > popped up in Daemon News, are you? ;-) I'm talking about a friend or three that are basically waiting for me to find suitable red leather catsuits and accessories so they can wander around poking people with tridents. Think Bannarama's "Venus" video if you're having trouble with the image... -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 13:34:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12531 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:34:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA12524 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:34:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA02271; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:33:25 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990214142404.00b2c340@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:33:20 -0700 To: Mike Smith From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902142118.NAA05424@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:18 PM 2/14/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >I'm talking about a friend or three that are basically waiting for me >to find suitable red leather catsuits and accessories so they can >wander around poking people with tridents. Think Bannarama's "Venus" >video if you're having trouble with the image... Actually, I'm thinking of the "Devil Girls" from Schmidt and Jones' musical, "Celebration." If you want to obtain unusual leather goods in the Bay Area, try http://www.stormyleather.com/ Friends who are into bondage and discipline (I'm not) say that this is THE place to go in the Bay Area for such things. However, I'd think that red leotards and tights would be just as effective and more comfortable (leather is sweaty). They're also MUCH more available if you're seeking to outfit a few she-daemons on short notice. There must be approximately one zillion dancewear stores in the Bay Area. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 13:57:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA15039 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:57:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA15033 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:57:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA14895; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:57:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19990214135704.A13436@mooseriver.com> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:57:04 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: Brett Glass , Gary Kline Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com References: <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <19990213134206.A10635@mooseriver.com> <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 11:59:58AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 11:59:58AM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 01:42 PM 2/13/99 -0800, Josef Grosch wrote: > > >*NOTE* This has been moved to chat. > > > >BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) is also involved in this. BAFUG has > >been coordating the Linux people here in the Bay Area to pull this > >off. > > And the Linux people are doing everything in their power to make sure > that the public thinks EVERYONE there is a Linux user. Note that the > press report you quoted mentions ONLY Linux! My belief is that they > intend to play the users of other operating systems who show up for > patsies -- use them to strengthen the impression that everyone at > the event uses Linux, and only Linux. No, brett this is not the case. I was interviewed by the San Jose Mercury News and the reporter told me that all the Linux people he interviewed took great pains to point out that there were other OSS beside Linux. They emphasized that Linux is equal to FreeBSD in most ways and FreeBSD was better in a good number of ways. > It's also worth noting that the Bay Area organizers are telling users > of alternative operating systems that are NOT "open source" that they > must do "separate" protests. This includes BSDi, as well as Solaris, > BeOs, OS/2, NetWare, etc. They are also making sure that the URL that's > popularized as having information about the event is the URL of a > site devoted to Linux. They're turning the event not into a genuine > protest against Microsoft's tactics but rather into a publicity stunt > for their one alternative. Brett, I am confused how someone who is not here and does not know the people involved can pretend to know what is going on. The above statement is _NOT_ what is going on. Other OS people have been invited and a number of them, such as Solaris and SCO will be there. The BeOs people have be asked by Rick Moen a number of time to attend. They just can't seem to get their act together. I have been running BAFUG for 2 years now (April in our 2nd anniversary) and Nicole Harrington and I have been doing the Install-A-Thons for almost a year now. I have never seen you at either the BAFUG meetings or the Install-A-Thons. I have seen Duncan MacKinnon, Rick Moen and, Don Marti at our meetings and Install-A-Thons. In fact, these hard-core Linux people and others have shown up at most of our Install-A-Thons to help out with promoting FreeBSD and installing FreeBSD. I can't count the number of times I have heard Rick Moen say to people asking about Linux or FreeBSD that FreeBSD has a better IP stack or VM system. He often tells people that if they are running a web server that is getting 1000 hits a day that either Linux or FreeBSD will do but if you are getting 1,000,000 hits a day you had better be running FreeBSD, that Linux will just not hold up to that kind of traffic. The truth of the matter is that here in the Bay Area the Linux and FreeBSD camps work together based on the theory that "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". We play very well together. Both camps are mature enough to acknowledge the strengths of the other OS and weakness of their own OS. You, on the other hand, are an ideologue and a zealot. Something that most people including myself do not like. You are giving FreeBSD a bad name. If you wish to be an ideologue, fine, just do it some where else. I have not seen you at any of the meetings and have never shown up to work the Install-A-Thons. The only thing you have contributed to the Refund Day effort is to piss and moan about how the evil Linux people are taking over. To be very blunt, I am running this show and you don't have a say in this. Let me ask you, are you running a users group in your area? Are you running Install-A-Thons? What are you doing to promote FreeBSD beside pissing and moaning? All you are managing to do is to get youself enshrined in peoples kill filters. Brett, If you don't have something positive to contribute please have the good grace to bugger off. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 14:02:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA15417 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:02:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA15408 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:02:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (bangor-1.ime.net [209.90.195.58]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.3/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id RAA01449; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:02:08 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990214170107.03c0c730@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:01:38 -0500 To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com, Brett Glass , Gary Kline From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990214135704.A13436@mooseriver.com> References: <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <19990213134206.A10635@mooseriver.com> <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm just kinda curious if Microsoft is closed tomorrow because tomorrow is a holiday.. :) At 04:57 PM 2/14/99 , Josef Grosch wrote: >On Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 11:59:58AM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: >> At 01:42 PM 2/13/99 -0800, Josef Grosch wrote: >> >> >*NOTE* This has been moved to chat. >> > >> >BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) is also involved in this. BAFUG has >> >been coordating the Linux people here in the Bay Area to pull this >> >off. >> >> And the Linux people are doing everything in their power to make sure >> that the public thinks EVERYONE there is a Linux user. Note that the >> press report you quoted mentions ONLY Linux! My belief is that they >> intend to play the users of other operating systems who show up for >> patsies -- use them to strengthen the impression that everyone at >> the event uses Linux, and only Linux. > >No, brett this is not the case. I was interviewed by the San Jose Mercury >News and the reporter told me that all the Linux people he interviewed took >great pains to point out that there were other OSS beside Linux. They >emphasized that Linux is equal to FreeBSD in most ways and FreeBSD was >better in a good number of ways. > >> It's also worth noting that the Bay Area organizers are telling users >> of alternative operating systems that are NOT "open source" that they >> must do "separate" protests. This includes BSDi, as well as Solaris, >> BeOs, OS/2, NetWare, etc. They are also making sure that the URL that's >> popularized as having information about the event is the URL of a >> site devoted to Linux. They're turning the event not into a genuine >> protest against Microsoft's tactics but rather into a publicity stunt >> for their one alternative. > >Brett, I am confused how someone who is not here and does not know the >people involved can pretend to know what is going on. The above statement is >_NOT_ what is going on. Other OS people have been invited and a number of >them, such as Solaris and SCO will be there. The BeOs people have be asked >by Rick Moen a number of time to attend. They just can't seem to get their >act together. > >I have been running BAFUG for 2 years now (April in our 2nd anniversary) and >Nicole Harrington and I have been doing the Install-A-Thons for almost a >year now. I have never seen you at either the BAFUG meetings or the >Install-A-Thons. I have seen Duncan MacKinnon, Rick Moen and, Don Marti at >our meetings and Install-A-Thons. In fact, these hard-core Linux people and >others have shown up at most of our Install-A-Thons to help out with >promoting FreeBSD and installing FreeBSD. I can't count the number of times >I have heard Rick Moen say to people asking about Linux or FreeBSD that >FreeBSD has a better IP stack or VM system. He often tells people that if >they are running a web server that is getting 1000 hits a day that either >Linux or FreeBSD will do but if you are getting 1,000,000 hits a day you >had better be running FreeBSD, that Linux will just not hold up to that >kind of traffic. > >The truth of the matter is that here in the Bay Area the Linux and FreeBSD >camps work together based on the theory that "The enemy of my enemy is my >friend". We play very well together. Both camps are mature enough to >acknowledge the strengths of the other OS and weakness of their own >OS. You, on the other hand, are an ideologue and a zealot. Something that >most people including myself do not like. You are giving FreeBSD a bad >name. If you wish to be an ideologue, fine, just do it some where else. > >I have not seen you at any of the meetings and have never shown up to work >the Install-A-Thons. The only thing you have contributed to the Refund Day >effort is to piss and moan about how the evil Linux people are taking >over. To be very blunt, I am running this show and you don't have a say in >this. Let me ask you, are you running a users group in your area? Are you >running Install-A-Thons? What are you doing to promote FreeBSD beside >pissing and moaning? All you are managing to do is to get youself enshrined >in peoples kill filters. > >Brett, If you don't have something positive to contribute please have the >good grace to bugger off. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP DSS/1024 Public Key ID: 0x409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 14:04:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA15567 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:04:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA15554 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:04:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14974; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:04:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19990214140428.B13436@mooseriver.com> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:04:28 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: Drew Baxter , Brett Glass , Gary Kline Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com References: <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <19990213134206.A10635@mooseriver.com> <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> <19990214135704.A13436@mooseriver.com> <4.1.19990214170107.03c0c730@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990214170107.03c0c730@genesis.ispace.com>; from Drew Baxter on Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 05:01:38PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 05:01:38PM -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > I'm just kinda curious if Microsoft is closed tomorrow because tomorrow is > a holiday.. :) We have spoken to microsoft several times and they have said that they will be open. Now, if that is just a ploy and they are closed then this is all the better. Do you remember the movie "Roger and Me" ? Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 14:11:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA16488 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:11:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA16482 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:11:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (bangor-1.ime.net [209.90.195.58]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.3/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id RAA01469; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:11:14 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990214170927.03b5c3a0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:10:43 -0500 To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com, Brett Glass , Gary Kline From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990214140428.B13436@mooseriver.com> References: <4.1.19990214170107.03c0c730@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <19990213134206.A10635@mooseriver.com> <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> <19990214135704.A13436@mooseriver.com> <4.1.19990214170107.03c0c730@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 05:04 PM 2/14/99 , Josef Grosch wrote: >We have spoken to microsoft several times and they have said that they will >be open. Now, if that is just a ploy and they are closed then this is all >the better. Do you remember the movie "Roger and Me" ? I'm 17, it's likely I've been exposed to different things than my peers, but I can't say that I have heard of that off the top of my head :-) Maybe I'll jump into IMDB later and go check it out. I take it noone wants to get s giant window sticker and put it in the Microsoft lobby window? *snicker* --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP DSS/1024 Public Key ID: 0x409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 14:13:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA16843 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:13:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles146.castles.com [208.214.165.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA16837 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:13:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA05763; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:09:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199902142209.OAA05763@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:04:28 PST." <19990214140428.B13436@mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:09:00 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 05:01:38PM -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > > I'm just kinda curious if Microsoft is closed tomorrow because tomorrow is > > a holiday.. :) > > We have spoken to microsoft several times and they have said that they will > be open. Now, if that is just a ploy and they are closed then this is all > the better. Do you remember the movie "Roger and Me" ? Given that this is California, there should be enough truck-like vehicles involved that someone will have enough chain and traction to deal with something so flimsy as "doors". -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 14:21:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17718 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:21:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA17713 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:21:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (bangor-1.ime.net [209.90.195.58]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.3/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id RAA01478; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:19:39 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990214171703.04764df0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:19:09 -0500 To: Mike Smith , jgrosch@mooseriver.com From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902142209.OAA05763@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 05:09 PM 2/14/99 , Mike Smith wrote: >> On Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 05:01:38PM -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: >> > I'm just kinda curious if Microsoft is closed tomorrow because tomorrow is >> > a holiday.. :) >> >> We have spoken to microsoft several times and they have said that they will >> be open. Now, if that is just a ploy and they are closed then this is all >> the better. Do you remember the movie "Roger and Me" ? > >Given that this is California, there should be enough truck-like >vehicles involved that someone will have enough chain and traction to >deal with something so flimsy as "doors". Now we're not allowed to talk about potentially illegal acts in the listservs and all. I recommend a disclaimer like: While I may think this is a good idea, I will not be held responsible should someone attach their pickup truck to the front doors of Microsoft and remove them from the hinges. I will however not guarantee that I will shout and cheer should such an occurance exist. Wear it on the back of your name tag proudly. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP DSS/1024 Public Key ID: 0x409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 14:23:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17866 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:23:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from orcrist.mediacity.com (orcrist.mediacity.com [208.138.36.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA17861 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:23:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@orcrist.mediacity.com) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by orcrist.mediacity.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07182; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:23:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:23:31 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: Brett Glass Cc: jgrosch@mooseriver.com, Gary Kline , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics Message-ID: <19990214142331.Q22179@orcrist.mediacity.com> References: <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <19990213134206.A10635@mooseriver.com> <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> <19990214114602.P22179@orcrist.mediacity.com> <4.1.19990214130237.00a618d0@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990214130237.00a618d0@mail.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 01:21:28PM -0700 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 01:21:28PM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 11:46 AM 2/14/99 -0800, Gregory Sutter wrote: > > >From the very first paragraph of , the > >Bay Area refund organization: > > > >"If you are a user of Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, or another > >free/Open Source operating system, you may be entitled to a refund > >for unused Microsoft products bundled with your computer." > > This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Users of BSDI, > SCO, Solaris, BeOS, OS/2, and NetWare are likewise entitled to > refunds. Yet Rick Moen, a Linux zealot whose Web site is named > (characteristically) "linuxmafia", refuses to allow users of > these OSes to participate in his event. He has agreed to allow > users of the BSDs to participate, but then conveniently fails > to mention that they're involved when he speaks to the press. Rick has been very good about mentioning this as an Open Source event, and not a Linux or OpenBSD or any other OS event. If the media has Linux on the brain and can't seem to report on anything else, that isn't Rick's fault. I have been physically present on several occasions when he has been speaking about Refund Day, and he has been fair and very non-partisan on both of those occasions. > >The Bay Area movement, and Rick Moen in particular, has done a > >fantastic job of uniting different OS camps in this effort, achieving > >that goal without any sniping between camps (until you had to shoot > >off your mouth/fingers). > > Nonsense. Rick has alienated users of commercial alternative OSes > by specifically stating, on their Web site, that they are not > welcome to participate but instead are invited to mount "separate" > efforts. In a message on the Appraising Microsoft mailing list, > Rick wrote: > > |We're not "dividing people": We're just organising open-source OS > |users who wish to return their unused, unwanted, bundled Microsoft > |software covered by an appropriate EULA. If you don't like that for > |any reason, that's fine, too: Feel free to run your own effort in > |your own way. > > In short, "We're not dividing people, but you are not > welcome because you don't run one of the OSes we've deemed > acceptable." Brett, this is ridiculous. He has every right to limit this movement to open-source OSes if he wants to. As he says, if you don't like it, go ahead and organize your own refund effort. I suppose you would also like it if Daemon News started reporting Linux and Microsoft programs/achievements, to somehow prove that we "deem them acceptable"? > >Just admit that, for this one day, all Open > >Source (and even all non-Microsoft) OSes have a common enemy. > > I will, but Rick won't. And you can bet that, when the press comes > to call, he'll promote this as a Linux-only effort, making the BAFUG > members and organizers feel foolish for lending their support. But [...] > Because that's Rick's goal, denials to the contrary. When you prove yourself as adept a mind-reader as you claim, I will begin to believe your largely-unfounded statements. Until then, Rick, BAFUG, and the Linux Mafia will have an enjoyable Windows Refund Day and hopefully get some money back from Microsoft. Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter "I think not," said Descartes... mailto:gsutter@pobox.com and promptly disappeared. http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 14:25:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA18004 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:25:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA17999 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:25:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id PAA02705; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 15:25:40 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990214151559.00b22da0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 15:25:33 -0700 To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com, Gary Kline From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990214135704.A13436@mooseriver.com> References: <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <19990213134206.A10635@mooseriver.com> <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:57 PM 2/14/99 -0800, Josef Grosch wrote: >No, brett this is not the case. I was interviewed by the San Jose Mercury >News and the reporter told me that all the Linux people he interviewed took >great pains to point out that there were other OSS beside Linux. They >emphasized that Linux is equal to FreeBSD in most ways and FreeBSD was >better in a good number of ways. I hope that this is the case. It doesn't seem to be the case with the group that's organizing the Bay Area event, though. >The BeOs people have be asked >by Rick Moen a number of time to attend. They just can't seem to get their >act together. They shouldn't need to get a separate "act" together. This is an unnecessary hurdle which Rick is imposing -- apparently in an attempt to get them to bugger off. >I have been running BAFUG for 2 years now (April in our 2nd anniversary) and >Nicole Harrington and I have been doing the Install-A-Thons for almost a >year now. I have never seen you at either the BAFUG meetings or the >Install-A-Thons. That's because I jet in and out of the Bay Area on business (I live in Wyoming). Since I found out you existed (about 2 months ago), I haven't had an opportunity to attend any of our events. >The truth of the matter is that here in the Bay Area the Linux and FreeBSD >camps work together based on the theory that "The enemy of my enemy is my >friend". It sure doesn't appear that way. I've been at a number of Bay Area events at which the Linuxoids have bashed the BSDs at great length. >You, on the other hand, are an ideologue and a zealot. Nope, you might say I'm an ANTI-ideologue and an ANTI-zealot. I see Linux zealots trashing the BSDs and pushing the GPL -- which is destructive, anti-business, and anti-choice -- at the expense of those of us who'd like to have a choice. I have therefore spoken out about the problem. >Let me ask you, are you running a users group in your area? Are you >running Install-A-Thons? Yes and yes. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 14:31:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA18907 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:31:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA18902 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:31:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id PAA02762; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 15:31:15 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990214152753.00b239d0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 15:29:54 -0700 To: Gregory Sutter From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics Cc: jgrosch@mooseriver.com, Gary Kline , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990214142331.Q22179@orcrist.mediacity.com> References: <4.1.19990214130237.00a618d0@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <19990213134206.A10635@mooseriver.com> <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> <19990214114602.P22179@orcrist.mediacity.com> <4.1.19990214130237.00a618d0@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 02:23 PM 2/14/99 -0800, Gregory Sutter wrote: >Brett, this is ridiculous. He has every right to limit this movement >to open-source OSes if he wants to. As he says, if you don't like it, >go ahead and organize your own refund effort. I suppose you would >also like it if Daemon News started reporting Linux and Microsoft >programs/achievements, to somehow prove that we "deem them acceptable"? I'd say that this situation is rather different. He is specifically excluding people with an interest in the issue at hand because he doesn't like to OSes they run. >> >Just admit that, for this one day, all Open >> >Source (and even all non-Microsoft) OSes have a common enemy. >> >> I will, but Rick won't. And you can bet that, when the press comes >> to call, he'll promote this as a Linux-only effort, making the BAFUG >> members and organizers feel foolish for lending their support. But >[...] >> Because that's Rick's goal, denials to the contrary. > >When you prove yourself as adept a mind-reader as you claim, I will >begin to believe your largely-unfounded statements. Watch what he does tomorrow. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 14:33:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA19081 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:33:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA19056 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:33:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA15148; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:32:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19990214143206.E13436@mooseriver.com> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:32:06 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: Mike Smith Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com References: <19990214140428.B13436@mooseriver.com> <199902142209.OAA05763@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199902142209.OAA05763@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 02:09:00PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 02:09:00PM -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > On Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 05:01:38PM -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > > > I'm just kinda curious if Microsoft is closed tomorrow because tomorrow is > > > a holiday.. :) > > > > We have spoken to microsoft several times and they have said that they will > > be open. Now, if that is just a ploy and they are closed then this is all > > the better. Do you remember the movie "Roger and Me" ? > > Given that this is California, there should be enough truck-like > vehicles involved that someone will have enough chain and traction to > deal with something so flimsy as "doors". I assume that was a demonstration of your wonderful dry humor. Being an 4th generation New Yorker it's a bit too subtle for me ;-) Please keep in mind people that this will not be a storming of the Bastille, gratifying as it might be. We should be respectful of their property. We should be firm yet polite when we ask for our money back. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 14:41:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA19899 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:41:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA19881 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:41:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA15195; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:41:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19990214144126.F13436@mooseriver.com> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:41:26 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: Drew Baxter , Brett Glass , Gary Kline Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com References: <4.1.19990214170107.03c0c730@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <19990213134206.A10635@mooseriver.com> <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> <19990214135704.A13436@mooseriver.com> <4.1.19990214170107.03c0c730@genesis.ispace.com> <19990214140428.B13436@mooseriver.com> <4.1.19990214170927.03b5c3a0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990214170927.03b5c3a0@genesis.ispace.com>; from Drew Baxter on Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 05:10:43PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 05:10:43PM -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > At 05:04 PM 2/14/99 , Josef Grosch wrote: > >We have spoken to microsoft several times and they have said that they will > >be open. Now, if that is just a ploy and they are closed then this is all > >the better. Do you remember the movie "Roger and Me" ? > > I'm 17, it's likely I've been exposed to different things than my peers, > but I can't say that I have heard of that off the top of my head :-) > > Maybe I'll jump into IMDB later and go check it out. A highly recommended documentary about the author and general gadfly Michael Moore trying to interview General Motors chairman of the board Roger Moore about why GM closed the Flint, Michigan plant and threw thousands of people out of work. Roger Moore spent the entire movie dodging Michael Moore and came off looking like he and GM had something to hide. It was a very big black mark against GM. The film is out on video and Blockbuster does carry it. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 14:45:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA20370 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:45:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (fep1-orange.clear.net.nz [203.97.32.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA20362 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:45:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from crh@outpost.co.nz) Received: from outpost.co.nz (b001-m002-p050.wgtn.clear.net.nz [203.167.240.114]) by fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (1.5/1.11) with ESMTP id LAA28985; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:45:33 +1300 (NZDT) Message-Id: <199902142245.LAA28985@fep1-orange.clear.net.nz> Received: (qmail 29903 invoked from network); 14 Feb 1999 22:06:55 -0000 Received: from officedonkey.acme.gen.nz (HELO officedonkey) (192.168.1.3) by evil-smelling-bugger.acme.gen.nz with SMTP; 14 Feb 1999 22:06:55 -0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Craig Harding" Organization: Outpost Digital Media Ltd To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:06:27 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Microsoft software is without bugs? Yeah Right. Reply-to: crh@outpost.co.nz X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Just a small aside, but as I'm working here on a document on Microsoft Word (yeah I know it should be Applixware or something on a FreeBSD box - so sue me) and a small problem occurred which brought to mind the recent posting of the Bill Gates interview in which he asserts that Microsoft Software has no bugs. Perhaps Mr Gates could kindly explain to me where my capital W's have gone. Possibly they're sulking in a corner, upset at my rapid touch typing. I'm now no longer sure how my client will react to my "ebsite" proposal. We now return you to your regularly scheduled BSD vs Linux flamefest. -- C. ("Reboot: it's not just a process, it's a complete Customer Support Solution![tm]") -- Craig Harding Head of Postproduction, Outpost Digital Media Ltd "I don't know about God, I just think we're handmade" - Polly To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 14:47:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA20594 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:47:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles146.castles.com [208.214.165.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA20579 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:47:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA05967; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:42:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199902142242.OAA05967@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com cc: Mike Smith , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:32:06 PST." <19990214143206.E13436@mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:42:39 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 02:09:00PM -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > > On Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 05:01:38PM -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > > > > I'm just kinda curious if Microsoft is closed tomorrow because tomorrow is > > > > a holiday.. :) > > > > > > We have spoken to microsoft several times and they have said that they will > > > be open. Now, if that is just a ploy and they are closed then this is all > > > the better. Do you remember the movie "Roger and Me" ? > > > > Given that this is California, there should be enough truck-like > > vehicles involved that someone will have enough chain and traction to > > deal with something so flimsy as "doors". > > I assume that was a demonstration of your wonderful dry humor. Being an 4th > generation New Yorker it's a bit too subtle for me ;-) Sorry. I was assuming that your movie reference was a subtle way of saying "not being there would be a bad idea for them". I was just putting a different angle on it. > Please keep in mind people that this will not be a storming of the > Bastille, gratifying as it might be. We should be respectful of their > property. We should be firm yet polite when we ask for our money back. Indeed. However it would be silly for them to assume that we will be so nice. I'm not expecting riot foam, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're prepared to get heavy. I think they have more class than to deliberately escalate things though. *shrug* We shall see what we see. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 15:04:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22735 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 15:04:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA22727 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 15:04:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA15308; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 15:04:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19990214150434.A15239@mooseriver.com> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 15:04:34 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: Mike Smith Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com References: <19990214143206.E13436@mooseriver.com> <199902142242.OAA05967@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199902142242.OAA05967@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 02:42:39PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 02:42:39PM -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > On Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 02:09:00PM -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > On Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 05:01:38PM -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > > > > > I'm just kinda curious if Microsoft is closed tomorrow because tomorrow is > > > > > a holiday.. :) > > > > > > > > We have spoken to microsoft several times and they have said that they will > > > > be open. Now, if that is just a ploy and they are closed then this is all > > > > the better. Do you remember the movie "Roger and Me" ? > > > > > > Given that this is California, there should be enough truck-like > > > vehicles involved that someone will have enough chain and traction to > > > deal with something so flimsy as "doors". > > > > I assume that was a demonstration of your wonderful dry humor. Being an 4th > > generation New Yorker it's a bit too subtle for me ;-) > > Sorry. I was assuming that your movie reference was a subtle way of > saying "not being there would be a bad idea for them". I was just > putting a different angle on it. Yes, that was exctacly what I had in mind. Michael Moore is one of my heros and that movie had a hugh impact on me when I first say it. > > Please keep in mind people that this will not be a storming of the > > Bastille, gratifying as it might be. We should be respectful of their > > property. We should be firm yet polite when we ask for our money back. > > Indeed. However it would be silly for them to assume that we will be > so nice. I'm not expecting riot foam, but I wouldn't be surprised if > they're prepared to get heavy. I think they have more class than to > deliberately escalate things though. *shrug* We shall see what we see. I assume that they will have the "rent-a-cops" all ready to go if it does go badly. I also assume that they are planning for the worst. Remember that the media will be there so if things do get ugly we, the OSS people, will look bad. This is why I urge that we be polite yet firm. Peaceful, non-violent, non-cooperation is always the best and most powerful tool in these situations. I, personally, will have nothing to do with the destruction of property or any criminal acts. I suspect that vast majority of people attending tomorrows event are of a like mind. If, G*D forbid it, things do start getting ugly our best tactic will be to just walk away. We want nothing to do with trouble. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 15:25:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25091 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 15:25:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bytor.rush.net (bytor.rush.net [209.45.245.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA25084; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 15:25:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lynch@rush.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by bytor.rush.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA19192; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:16:59 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from lynch@rush.net) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:16:59 -0500 (EST) From: Pat Lynch To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: New York Users Group (FUNY?) (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org don;t know if this ever got posted to -announce, so I'll try again. -Pat ___________________________________________________________________________ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 14:28:18 -0500 (EST) From: Pat Lynch To: freebsd-announce@freebsd.org Subject: New York Users Group (FUNY?) There will be a steering/planning committee of the New York City FreeBSD Users Group or FreeBSD USers of New York or whatever ;) at the Bombay Palace restaurant between 5th and 6th on 52nd street in New York City on February 26, 1999 (thats next Friday). Anyone with an interest in a users group and the direction we should be taking in the NY metro area is invited to attend. Any requests for info should be directed towards me (lynch@rush.net). This includes directions, transportation questions, etc. -Pat Lynch ___________________________________________________________________________ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net Systems Administrator Rush Networking Remark made by Bertrand Meyer (inventor of the Eiffel language) at a panel discussion at OOPSLA '89: "COBOL programmers are destined to code COBOL for the rest of their lives, and thereafter." ___________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 15:27:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25190 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 15:27:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (shell.monmouth.com [205.231.236.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA25182 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 15:27:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pechter@pechter.nws.net) Received: from pechter.nws.net (bg-tc-ppp269.monmouth.com [209.191.61.16]) by shell.monmouth.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA15839; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:26:45 -0500 (EST) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by pechter.nws.net (8.9.2/8.9.1) id SAA00470; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:24:01 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from pechter) From: Bill Pechter Message-Id: <199902142324.SAA00470@pechter.nws.net> Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics In-Reply-To: <19990214144126.F13436@mooseriver.com> from Josef Grosch at "Feb 14, 1999 2:41:26 pm" To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:23:52 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: bpechter@shell.monmouth.com X-Phone-Number: 908-389-3592 X-OS-Type: FreeBSD 3.0-Stable X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Someone want to see if Bill Gates can install Win95 with networking. I remember that one time a Ford exec was the only one who took the challenge of changing his own oil in a pickup. Bill > On Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 05:10:43PM -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > > At 05:04 PM 2/14/99 , Josef Grosch wrote: > > >We have spoken to microsoft several times and they have said that they will > > >be open. Now, if that is just a ploy and they are closed then this is all > > >the better. Do you remember the movie "Roger and Me" ? > > > > I'm 17, it's likely I've been exposed to different things than my peers, > > but I can't say that I have heard of that off the top of my head :-) > > > > Maybe I'll jump into IMDB later and go check it out. > > A highly recommended documentary about the author and general gadfly Michael > Moore trying to interview General Motors chairman of the board Roger Moore > about why GM closed the Flint, Michigan plant and threw thousands of > people out of work. Roger Moore spent the entire movie dodging Michael > Moore and came off looking like he and GM had something to hide. It was a > very big black mark against GM. The film is out on video and Blockbuster > does carry it. > > > Josef > > -- > Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 > jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.nws.net|pechter@pechter.ddns.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 15:48:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27156 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 15:48:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lab.cba.ualr.edu (lab.cba.ualr.edu [144.167.120.221]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA27126 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 15:47:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joe@lab.cba.ualr.edu) Received: from access62.mod1.ualr.edu (access62.mod1.ualr.edu [144.167.7.62]) by lab.cba.ualr.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA21692; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:47:53 -0600 Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:47:35 -0600 (CST) From: Joe X-Sender: joe@loki.ualr.edu To: bpechter@shell.monmouth.com cc: jgrosch@mooseriver.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics In-Reply-To: <199902142324.SAA00470@pechter.nws.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Actually, the challenge was to see if any CEO's knew how to use their own products. When asked, an IBM exec could not format a floppy ( or didn't care). Ironically, the only one to accept the challenge was a GM exec and he changed the oil in his car. Do you think Bill cares if he can install his own product or not? That's what VP's are for..... On Sun, 14 Feb 1999, Bill Pechter wrote: > Someone want to see if Bill Gates can install Win95 with networking. > I remember that one time a Ford exec was the only one who took the challenge > of changing his own oil in a pickup. > > Bill > > > On Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 05:10:43PM -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > > > At 05:04 PM 2/14/99 , Josef Grosch wrote: > > > >We have spoken to microsoft several times and they have said that they will > > > >be open. Now, if that is just a ploy and they are closed then this is all > > > >the better. Do you remember the movie "Roger and Me" ? > > > > > > I'm 17, it's likely I've been exposed to different things than my peers, > > > but I can't say that I have heard of that off the top of my head :-) > > > > > > Maybe I'll jump into IMDB later and go check it out. > > > > A highly recommended documentary about the author and general gadfly Michael > > Moore trying to interview General Motors chairman of the board Roger Moore > > about why GM closed the Flint, Michigan plant and threw thousands of > > people out of work. Roger Moore spent the entire movie dodging Michael > > Moore and came off looking like he and GM had something to hide. It was a > > very big black mark against GM. The film is out on video and Blockbuster > > does carry it. > > > > > > Josef > > > > -- > > Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 > > jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > > > > > --- > Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a > villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller > bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.nws.net|pechter@pechter.ddns.org > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 17:31:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA10189 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:31:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA10179 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:31:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA03042; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:01:43 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id MAA00177; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:01:41 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19990215120141.F54333@lemis.com> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:01:41 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Brett Glass , jgrosch@mooseriver.com, Gary Kline Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Brett Glass and reality (was: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics) References: <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <19990213134206.A10635@mooseriver.com> <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 11:59:58AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, 14 February 1999 at 11:59:58 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 01:42 PM 2/13/99 -0800, Josef Grosch wrote: > >> *NOTE* This has been moved to chat. >> >> BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) is also involved in this. BAFUG has >> been coordating the Linux people here in the Bay Area to pull this >> off. > > And the Linux people are doing everything in their power to make sure > that the public thinks EVERYONE there is a Linux user. Note that the > press report you quoted mentions ONLY Linux! My belief is that they > intend to play the users of other operating systems who show up for > patsies -- use them to strengthen the impression that everyone at > the event uses Linux, and only Linux. Brett, others have shown the errors in your claims. They're not minor errors: they are *completely unrelated to the facts*. I've long since stopped taking anything you say seriously, and I wish you'd realise that you do not represent the opinions of the majority of the FreeBSD community. If you are going to get involved in this business, I certainly hope that nobody associates you with FreeBSD. And now would you kindly shut up? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 17:36:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA10611 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:36:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bytor.rush.net (bytor.rush.net [209.45.245.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA10597; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:36:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lynch@rush.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by bytor.rush.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA19819; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:36:49 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from lynch@rush.net) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:36:49 -0500 (EST) From: Pat Lynch To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FUNY (oops forgot the time) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thanks DES for pointing out I forgot the time : Meeting will start between 7:30 and 8:00 PM< with formalities to start around 8:30 I think (gives us time to socialize and wait for stragglers =) -Pat ___________________________________________________________________________ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net Systems Administrator Rush Networking Remark made by Bertrand Meyer (inventor of the Eiffel language) at a panel discussion at OOPSLA '89: "COBOL programmers are destined to code COBOL for the rest of their lives, and thereafter." ___________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 18:11:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA14140 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:11:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA14135 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:11:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA98546; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:10:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199902150210.SAA98546@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Greg Lehey cc: Brett Glass , jgrosch@mooseriver.com, Gary Kline , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Brett Glass and reality (was: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:01:41 +1030." <19990215120141.F54333@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:10:45 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On the contrary , we need more people like Brett Glass. He is trying to "rally the troops" if you can't contribute in a positive fashion stay out of it. Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 18:45:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA17876 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:45:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (fep1-orange.clear.net.nz [203.97.32.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA17871 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:45:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from crh@outpost.co.nz) Received: from outpost.co.nz (d5-u50.wgtn.clear.net.nz [203.97.53.50]) by fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (1.5/1.11) with ESMTP id PAA20673; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:45:25 +1300 (NZDT) Message-Id: <199902150245.PAA20673@fep1-orange.clear.net.nz> Received: (qmail 280 invoked from network); 15 Feb 1999 00:22:44 -0000 Received: from officedonkey.acme.gen.nz (HELO officedonkey) (192.168.1.3) by evil-smelling-bugger.acme.gen.nz with SMTP; 15 Feb 1999 00:22:44 -0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Craig Harding" Organization: Outpost Digital Media Ltd To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:22:18 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics Reply-to: crh@outpost.co.nz CC: Josef Grosch In-reply-to: <19990214144126.F13436@mooseriver.com> References: <4.1.19990214170927.03b5c3a0@genesis.ispace.com>; from Drew Baxter on Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 05:10:43PM -0500 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Josef Grosch wrote: > > > [..."Roger & Me"...] > > > > Maybe I'll jump into IMDB later and go check it out. > > A highly recommended documentary about the author and general gadfly > Michael Moore trying to interview General Motors chairman of the > board Roger Moore about why GM closed the Flint, Michigan plant and > threw thousands of people out of work. Roger Moore spent the entire > movie dodging Michael Moore and came off looking like he and GM had > something to hide. It was a very big black mark against GM. The film > is out on video and Blockbuster does carry it. I'll second Josef's comments about Roger & Me. It's a serious film, but also absolutely hilarious. A superb example of guerilla documentary. I wish I had the time to make things like this. -- C. -- Craig Harding Head of Postproduction, Outpost Digital Media Ltd "I don't know about God, I just think we're handmade" - Polly To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 19:18:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA21250 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:18:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sturm.canonware.com (canonware.com [204.107.140.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA21233 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:17:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Received: from localhost (jasone@localhost) by sturm.canonware.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA06578; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:06:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:06:07 -0800 (PST) From: Jason Evans To: Amancio Hasty cc: Greg Lehey , Brett Glass , jgrosch@mooseriver.com, Gary Kline , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Brett Glass and reality (was: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics) In-Reply-To: <199902150210.SAA98546@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 14 Feb 1999, Amancio Hasty wrote: > On the contrary , we need more people like Brett Glass. > > He is trying to "rally the troops" if you can't contribute in a > positive fashion stay out of it. FreeBSD doesn't need zealots any more than Linux needs them. Don't confuse advocacy and zealotry. Jason Jason Evans http://www.canonware.com/~jasone Home phone: (650) 856-8204 Work phone: (415) 808-8742 "I once knew a happy medium. Her name was Zohar." - James Foster To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 19:30:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA22629 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:30:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA22617 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:30:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id UAA05121; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:28:09 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990214202431.03fe19f0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:28:05 -0700 To: Jason Evans , Amancio Hasty From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Brett Glass and reality (was: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics) Cc: Greg Lehey , jgrosch@mooseriver.com, Gary Kline , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <199902150210.SAA98546@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:06 PM 2/14/99 -0800, Jason Evans wrote: >FreeBSD doesn't need zealots any more than Linux needs them. Don't >confuse advocacy and zealotry. I agree. The Linux "faithful" are engaging in zealotry by refusing to allow users of commercial operating systems to participate WITH them in the Windows Refund Day event. We should advocate that people do the right thing instead. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 19:33:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA22999 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:33:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA22994 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:33:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id UAA05164; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:33:06 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990214202855.03fe73e0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:33:02 -0700 To: Greg Lehey From: Brett Glass Subject: Reality Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990215120141.F54333@lemis.com> References: <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <19990213134206.A10635@mooseriver.com> <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:01 PM 2/15/99 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >I've long since stopped taking anything you say seriously, You're welcome to do that -- at your own risk, of course. >and I wish >you'd realise that you do not represent the opinions of the majority >of the FreeBSD community. I don't claim to speek for "the majority of the FreeBSD community," and neither should you. >And now would you kindly shut up? I haven't asked YOU to shut up, Greg. I think it's rude of you to ask me to do the same just because you happen to disagree with me. I believe that time will bear out my conclusions vis-a-vis the intentions of the Linux zealots and the effects of the GPL. Until then, kindly show some respect for others' views. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 20:02:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA25837 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:02:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA25832 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:02:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA99143; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:01:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199902150401.UAA99143@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Jason Evans cc: Greg Lehey , Brett Glass , jgrosch@mooseriver.com, Gary Kline , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Brett Glass and reality (was: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:06:07 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:01:05 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well okay, if you don't like Brett's advcocay or "zealotry" lets hear your advocacy -- I am all ears ! By definition almost all freebsd hackers are FreeBSD zealots and yes we do need people that are willing to "market" FreeBSD . I confess after so many years hacking, working and playing on FreeBSD it is kind of hard to think of anything else 8) Amancio > On Sun, 14 Feb 1999, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > On the contrary , we need more people like Brett Glass. > > > > He is trying to "rally the troops" if you can't contribute in a > > positive fashion stay out of it. > > FreeBSD doesn't need zealots any more than Linux needs them. Don't > confuse advocacy and zealotry. > > Jason > > Jason Evans > http://www.canonware.com/~jasone > Home phone: (650) 856-8204 > Work phone: (415) 808-8742 > "I once knew a happy medium. Her name was Zohar." - James Foster > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 20:10:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA26906 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:10:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA26757 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:10:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA16408; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:09:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19990214200902.A16343@mooseriver.com> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:09:02 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: Brett Glass , Jason Evans , Amancio Hasty Cc: Greg Lehey , Gary Kline , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Brett Glass and reality (was: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics) Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com References: <199902150210.SAA98546@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990214202431.03fe19f0@mail.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 08:28:05PM -0700 X-Mutt-References: <4.1.19990214202431.03fe19f0@mail.lariat.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 08:28:05PM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 07:06 PM 2/14/99 -0800, Jason Evans wrote: > > >FreeBSD doesn't need zealots any more than Linux needs them. Don't > >confuse advocacy and zealotry. > > I agree. The Linux "faithful" are engaging in zealotry by refusing to > allow users of commercial operating systems to participate > WITH them in the Windows Refund Day event. We should advocate > that people do the right thing instead. I don't know about other Linux people but here in the Bay Area this is _NOT_ the case. I know for a fact that the SCO, Solaris, OS/2, and BeOs people have been invited to participate. They have all been asked several times. The SCO and Solaris people have told us that they will be there. I have no idea what happened with the OS/2 people but the BeOs people just can't seem to muster up a few people to show up. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 20:25:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA27999 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:25:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA27992 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:25:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id VAA05595; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:25:21 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990214211350.03fa3a90@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:25:18 -0700 To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com, Gary Kline From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990214135704.A13436@mooseriver.com> References: <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <19990213134206.A10635@mooseriver.com> <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:57 PM 2/14/99 -0800, Josef Grosch wrote: >I was interviewed by the San Jose Mercury >News and the reporter told me that all the Linux people he interviewed took >great pains to point out that there were other OSS beside Linux. They >emphasized that Linux is equal to FreeBSD in most ways and FreeBSD was >better in a good number of ways. Are you sure they really did that? If so, how come the only Mercury News article on the subject (other than a tiny passing reference in Dan Gillmor's column), at http://www.sjmercury.com/breaking/docs/026444.htm only alludes to operating systems other than Linux in a vague way and mentions NO other by name? I think that the event is being cast as Linux-only by the promoters, and that you're being used. I really mean it. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 21:14:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA02846 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:14:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ocis.ocis.net (ocis.ocis.net [209.52.173.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA02839 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:14:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fcash@bigfoot.com) Received: from laptop (dial-41.ocis.net [209.52.173.73]) by ocis.ocis.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id VAA25372 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:14:13 -0800 Message-Id: <199902150514.VAA25372@ocis.ocis.net> From: "Freddie Cash" To: brett@lariat.org Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:13:59 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day Reply-to: fcash@bigfoot.com CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <4.1.19990214211350.03fa3a90@mail.lariat.org> References: <19990214135704.A13436@mooseriver.com> X-PM-Encryptor: QDPGP, 4 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > >I was interviewed by the San Jose Mercury > >News and the reporter told me that all the Linux people he interviewed > >took great pains to point out that there were other OSS beside Linux. > >They emphasized that Linux is equal to FreeBSD in most ways and FreeBSD > >was better in a good number of ways. > Are you sure they really did that? If so, how come the only Mercury News > article on the subject (other than a tiny passing reference in Dan > Gillmor's column) > only alludes to operating systems other than Linux in a vague way > and mentions NO other by name? > I think that the event is being cast as Linux-only by the promoters, > and that you're being used. I really mean it. That may be true of the SJ MN, but CNet Radio mentions Linux, OS/2, Netware, "and other alternative OS". Yes, the headline is "Linux Users Head for Microsoft", but the rest of the story deals with all non-MS OS's. There is a definite Linux slant, but it is not the only OS mentioned. There's also a neat mention of the difficulty to buy a PC w/o Windows, due to MS-OEM contracts. Freddie -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 5.5.5 -- QDPGP 2.12 Comment: http://community.wow.net/grt/qdpgp.html iQA/AwUBNsetFv1GU6dOoWY/EQIW7ACdF+RmVOtUUZErRvMZ7/ruJXcMp4UAn16D 3g9TwKORSioGUcla5hOSn6Qh =XFws -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 21:18:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA03133 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:18:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA03127 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:18:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA16604; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:18:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19990214211821.C16343@mooseriver.com> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:18:21 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: Brett Glass , Gary Kline Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com References: <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <19990213134206.A10635@mooseriver.com> <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> <19990214135704.A13436@mooseriver.com> <4.1.19990214211350.03fa3a90@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990214211350.03fa3a90@mail.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 09:25:18PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 09:25:18PM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 01:57 PM 2/14/99 -0800, Josef Grosch wrote: > > >I was interviewed by the San Jose Mercury > >News and the reporter told me that all the Linux people he interviewed took > >great pains to point out that there were other OSS beside Linux. They > >emphasized that Linux is equal to FreeBSD in most ways and FreeBSD was > >better in a good number of ways. > > Are you sure they really did that? If so, how come the only Mercury News > article on the subject (other than a tiny passing reference in Dan > Gillmor's column), at > > http://www.sjmercury.com/breaking/docs/026444.htm > > only alludes to operating systems other than Linux in a vague way > and mentions NO other by name? > > I think that the event is being cast as Linux-only by the promoters, > and that you're being used. I really mean it. First off, notice that the article came from USA Today. The Merc News picked up that article for reprint, a common practice in the newspaper business. I was interviewed by a reporter from the Merc News. Second, editors frequently remove detail that you and I consider important but they consider confusing to the average reader. Third, how much influence do you think the Linux people have over the reporters and editors of the San Jose Mercury News and USA Today ? Brett, you have been watching the X-Files way too much. Either way I am really bored with this argument. You have your opinion and thank you for being so generous with it but I do not agree. I will continue to do what I consider best for FreeBSD regardless of what you have to say. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 21:30:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA04944 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:30:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA04849 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:30:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA16645; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:30:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19990214213046.A16632@mooseriver.com> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:30:46 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: announce@bafug.org Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: BAFUG participation in Bay Area Microsoft Refund Day Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -=> FINAL NOTICE <=- On Monday, February 15, the Bay Area FreeBSD community can join with other PC users in returning unused, unwanted, bundled copies of Win9x and other Microsoft software _to Microsoft_ in Foster City, for refund. With television coverage and reporters from all over the world. (This right is guaranteed by _Microsoft's own_ license contract. See: http://www.nl.linux.org/geldterug/license.html) The event is being coordinated with similar events (the same day) in Orange County, New York City, New Zealand, France, Japan, and the Netherlands -- and has gotten huge amounts of publicity. See: http://hugin.imat.com/refund/coverage.html (all articles, and timeline) Main Windows Refund Day sites: * http://hugin.imat.com/refund/ <- Monitor this one for the Bay Area. * http://LinuxMall.com/refund/ * http://zork.net/refund/ * http://www.deirdre.org/rebellion.html * http://www.netmonger.net/~onr/refund.html * http://hugin.imat.com/refund/japan/ * http://www.nl.linux.org/geldterug/ * http://www.linux-center.org/detaxe/index.shtml * http://www.uniforum.org.nz/windowsrefund/ Here in the Bay Area, *BSD and Linux people are invited to assemble at any of four "posse" locations, _before_ 10 AM, Monday, when we will all carpool/caravan to Foster City. Open-source essayist Eric S. Raymond will be there. The band "Severe Tire Damage" ("the first band on the Internet") is supposed to be do a gig there, AND send it out over the MBONE. Is Microsoft just a tad nervous? They might be, given that we troublemakers have already transformed two of their recent company PR events into open-source ones: * http://www.svlug.org/events/tea-party-199811.shtml * http://hugin.imat.com/svlug/ * http://www.penguincomputing.com/svlug-rally.html * http://hugin.imat.com/launch98/ * http://www.svlug.org/events/launch98.shtml We are also getting a large amount of press coverage. At last count we had 62 articles including ones from India, Malaysia, France, Australia, New Zealand, England, Sweden, and the Netherlands. Copies of these articles can be found at http://hugin.imat.com/refund/coverage.html A whole flock of people from SCO are even hoping to turn up, _and_ maybe some from Sun Microsystems. And that's not to mention the party in San Francisco, afterwards. (IMPORTANT: See http://hugin.imat.com/refund/directions.html for full details on the following, including directions and maps.) ==> Mountain View: Meet Posse organizer Chris Di Bona outside VA Research, 1235 Pear Ave. #111. near N. Shoreline Blvd. Also, please notify Chris immediately that you will be coming, at mv@linuxmafia.com. (Directions.) (Map.) ==> Oakland: Meet Posse organizer Scott McNeil at the passenger pickup zone at the entrance to MacArthur BART, no later than 10 AM. Also, please notify Scott immediately that you will be coming, at ebay@linuxmafia.com. Please include if you can offer or are in need of a ride! Please note that the BART parking lot is for BART patrons. There is nearby on-street parking. (Directions.) (Map.) ==> San Francisco: Meet Posse organizer Rick Moen inside The CoffeeNet Internet cafe, 744 Harrison @ 3rd/4th Streets, no later than 10 AM. Also, please notify Rick immediately that you will be coming, at sf@linuxmafia.com. (Directions.) (Map.) ==> Santa Clara: Meet Posse organizer Ian Kluft outside the Hotel Marriott Santa Clara, 2700 Mission College Blvd @ Great America, at the "F7" parking post near the tennis courts. Also, please notify Ian immediately that you will be coming, at sc@linuxmafia.com. (Directions.) (Map.) Stick around, because we're also going to have a party to remember afterwards, at The CoffeeNet in San Francisco. Wear your BSD t-shirts! Bring pitchforks and images of Chuck the daemon! Heck, bring BSDI and the blessed ghost of CSRG; it's going to be a blast, in any event. This notice is also available on the BAFUG web site at http://www.bafug.org/RefundDay.html Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 23:21:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA16948 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:21:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA16941 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:21:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA23203; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:21:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd023179; Mon Feb 15 00:21:03 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA10143; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:20:59 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902150720.AAA10143@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics To: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:20:58 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jgrosch@mooseriver.com, kline@tera.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> from "Brett Glass" at Feb 14, 99 11:59:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >*NOTE* This has been moved to chat. > > > >BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) is also involved in this. BAFUG has > >been coordating the Linux people here in the Bay Area to pull this > >off. > > And the Linux people are doing everything in their power to make sure > that the public thinks EVERYONE there is a Linux user. Note that the > press report you quoted mentions ONLY Linux! My belief is that they > intend to play the users of other operating systems who show up for > patsies -- use them to strengthen the impression that everyone at > the event uses Linux, and only Linux. So do what I'm going to do: show up in your FreeBSD T-shirt. It doesn't matter if you are actually there to get a refund or not; there's no way to tell that from the other side of the camera. > BAFUG should make DARN sure that the press knows it's there. Better > bring BIG banners with "FreeBSD" and the daemon logo displayed > prominently -- not to mention disks, buttons, and T-shirts, if possible. Tell Jordan. He has that stuff for the trade shows. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 23:28:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA18059 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:28:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA18052 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:28:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA24586; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:28:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd024575; Mon Feb 15 00:28:50 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA10313; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:28:49 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902150728.AAA10313@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics To: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:28:48 +0000 (GMT) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990214142404.00b2c340@mail.lariat.org> from "Brett Glass" at Feb 14, 99 02:33:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >I'm talking about a friend or three that are basically waiting for me > >to find suitable red leather catsuits and accessories so they can > >wander around poking people with tridents. Think Bannarama's "Venus" > >video if you're having trouble with the image... > > Actually, I'm thinking of the "Devil Girls" from Schmidt and Jones' > musical, "Celebration." Think adult she-devil halloween costumes at an "All-A-Dollar" or a "Pic-N-Save" type store, where they tend to shovel out off season goods for very cheap. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 23:42:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA19647 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:42:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA19642 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:42:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA03790; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:42:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd003777; Mon Feb 15 00:42:20 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA10571; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:42:12 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902150742.AAA10571@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:41:57 +0000 (GMT) Cc: brett@lariat.org, kline@tera.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990214135704.A13436@mooseriver.com> from "Josef Grosch" at Feb 14, 99 01:57:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > What are you doing to promote FreeBSD beside pissing and moaning? All > you are managing to do is to get youself enshrined in peoples kill > filters. Brett is a typical journalist. The only difference is, he's *FreeBSD's* journalist. Brett has done many published articles about FreeBSD. Not to put too fine a point on it, but Brett has been a strong FreeBSD evangelist, and while you may not agree with everything (or even anything) that he says under the influence of evnagelical fervor, FreeBSD needs evangelists. > Brett, If you don't have something positive to contribute please have the > good grace to bugger off. I think if the only thing he has done in this thread is rile up FreeBSD'ers, who were going to give the day a miss, into going and "showing the colors", then he's done his evangelical best for FreeBSD. Brett is contributing what he can. Not everyone is a kernel hacker; I think the KDE thread (on advocacy? chat?) recognizes this fact. To (probably mis-) quote SEF: The free software community has finally found a geek who thinks writing applications are cool. God help us all. Or to coin one from me: FreeBSD: Not just for kernel hackers any more Or to coin another one: FreeBSD: Not just the power to serve I personnally am very happy FreeBSD is starting to get people other than kernel geeks (like me) involved. Now if only we could find a lot of people who thought writing articles, books, and documentation was a cool thing to do on the weekend. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 23:44:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA19839 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:44:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA19833 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:44:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA00537; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:44:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd000527; Mon Feb 15 00:43:55 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA10647; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:43:55 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902150743.AAA10647@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:43:55 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jgrosch@mooseriver.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902142209.OAA05763@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Feb 14, 99 02:09:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > I'm just kinda curious if Microsoft is closed tomorrow because tomorrow is > > > a holiday.. :) > > > > We have spoken to microsoft several times and they have said that they will > > be open. Now, if that is just a ploy and they are closed then this is all > > the better. Do you remember the movie "Roger and Me" ? > > Given that this is California, there should be enough truck-like > vehicles involved that someone will have enough chain and traction to > deal with something so flimsy as "doors". I have it on good authority that Foster City's normal contingent of three police officers on duty is going to be somewhat augmented. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 23:49:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA20250 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:49:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA20241 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:49:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA04848; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:49:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd004836; Mon Feb 15 00:49:48 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA10756; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:49:48 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902150749.AAA10756@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:49:48 +0000 (GMT) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990214150434.A15239@mooseriver.com> from "Josef Grosch" at Feb 14, 99 03:04:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > If, G*D forbid it, things do start getting ugly our best tactic will be to > just walk away. We want nothing to do with trouble. I can see the news report now, a camera panning over a group wearing FreeBSD T-shirts, cue voice-over: "A group of Hells Angels stormed an office building in Foster City, California today..." Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 14 23:53:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA20702 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:53:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA20696 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:53:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA04903; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 01:02:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd004889; Mon Feb 15 01:02:17 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA10849; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:53:02 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902150753.AAA10849@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics To: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com (Drew Baxter) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:53:01 +0000 (GMT) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, jgrosch@mooseriver.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990214171703.04764df0@genesis.ispace.com> from "Drew Baxter" at Feb 14, 99 05:19:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Now we're not allowed to talk about potentially illegal acts in the > listservs and all. I recommend a disclaimer like: While I may think this > is a good idea, I will not be held responsible should someone attach their > pickup truck to the front doors of Microsoft and remove them from the > hinges. I will however not guarantee that I will shout and cheer should > such an occurance exist. What is that quote? Ah, yes, here in my left frontal lobe... "I may not like what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to die in a fire of suspicious origin." Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 00:15:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA22840 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:15:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA22835 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:15:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA05274; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 01:15:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd005247; Mon Feb 15 01:15:06 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA11333; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 01:14:53 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902150814.BAA11333@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Brett Glass and reality (was: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics) To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:14:53 +0000 (GMT) Cc: brett@lariat.org, jasone@canonware.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, grog@lemis.com, kline@tera.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990214200902.A16343@mooseriver.com> from "Josef Grosch" at Feb 14, 99 08:09:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > I agree. The Linux "faithful" are engaging in zealotry by refusing to > > allow users of commercial operating systems to participate > > WITH them in the Windows Refund Day event. We should advocate > > that people do the right thing instead. > > I don't know about other Linux people but here in the Bay Area this is > _NOT_ the case. I know for a fact that the SCO, Solaris, OS/2, and BeOs > people have been invited to participate. They have all been asked several > times. The SCO and Solaris people have told us that they will be there. I > have no idea what happened with the OS/2 people but the BeOs people just > can't seem to muster up a few people to show up. You need to read the FAQ; Brett is right. From: http://hugin.imat.com/refund/faq/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q: Are users of proprietary non-Microsoft OSes on Intel, such as BeOS, SolarisX86, SCO UnixWare, OS/2, QNX, and NeXTstep for Intel (to name a few) also welcome? A: This is an initiative of and by the open-source software community. We welcome separate efforts by users of proprietary OSes, who would certainly have an equally valid claim. If you hear of such an effort or want to start one, please contact arlo@linuxmafia.com, and we'll be glad to assist (e.g., share information and link to your Web site). -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Apparently VA Research is making and distributing T-shirts for coming to the refund day. From the wording, I think they may specifically be Linux T-shirts, and that you have to show up at one of the car-pool points to get one (e.g., they may not give them out at the site if you didn't come with them). This would definitely provide higher visibility by providing Linux branded "uniforms". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 00:25:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA23853 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:25:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles343.castles.com [208.214.167.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA23837 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:25:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA08913; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:20:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199902150820.AAA08913@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Terry Lambert cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Brett Glass and reality (was: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:14:53 GMT." <199902150814.BAA11333@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:20:36 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Apparently VA Research is making and distributing T-shirts for > coming to the refund day. From the wording, I think they may > specifically be Linux T-shirts, and that you have to show up > at one of the car-pool points to get one (e.g., they may not > give them out at the site if you didn't come with them). This > would definitely provide higher visibility by providing Linux > branded "uniforms". I can't imagine that too many of the FreeBSD folks showing up won't have FreeBSD tshirts. So wear them! -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 03:11:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA17980 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 03:11:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from scotty.masternet.it (scotty.masternet.it [194.184.65.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA17974 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 03:11:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gmarco@scotty.masternet.it) Received: from suzy (modem10.masternet.it [194.184.65.20]) by scotty.masternet.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA15608 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:11:13 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from gmarco@scotty.masternet.it) Message-Id: <4.1.19990215121553.0097a530@194.184.65.4> X-Sender: gmarco@scotty.masternet.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:19:39 +0100 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Gianmarco Giovannelli Subject: sybase & database Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have seen there is a free implementation of sybase for Linux (http://www.sybase.com/adaptiveserver/linux/). I am not really interested because I am happily using Postgresql , but sometimes it's better to have several choices to choose from... Anyone have experienced this one on a FreeBSD box ? And the Oracle 8 ? Thanks... Best Regards, Gianmarco Giovannelli , "Unix expert since yesterday" http://www.giovannelli.it/~gmarco http://www2.masternet.it To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (spinner.netplex.com.au [202.12.86.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA10676 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 06:29:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.netplex.com.au (8.9.2/8.9.2/Netplex) with ESMTP id WAA85747 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:29:41 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from peter@spinner.netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <199902151429.WAA85747@spinner.netplex.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Testing.. Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:29:40 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Testing new mail configuration and patches on a live list on hub.freebsd.org.. Yell (to me) if I've botched it.. Only freebsd-chat is affected. Cheers, -Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 8:51:41 1999 Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA29182 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:51:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id JAA10603; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:51:34 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990215063152.040ced40@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 06:33:11 -0700 To: Terry Lambert From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics Cc: mike@smith.net.au, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902150728.AAA10313@usr08.primenet.com> References: <4.1.19990214142404.00b2c340@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:28 AM 2/15/99 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >Think adult she-devil halloween costumes at an "All-A-Dollar" or a >"Pic-N-Save" type store, where they tend to shovel out off season >goods for very cheap. I don't know if they need to go THAT cheap. However, leather catsuits of the type described in Mike's message typically start at $500 for "basic black" and go 'way up for custom colors. That's a hefty investment. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 10:12: 2 1999 Received: from wopr.caltech.edu (wopr.caltech.edu [131.215.240.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA08796 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:11:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mph@wopr.caltech.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by wopr.caltech.edu (8.9.2/8.9.1) id KAA96652; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:11:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mph) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:11:42 -0800 From: Matthew Hunt To: Mike Smith Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics Message-ID: <19990215101142.B96546@wopr.caltech.edu> References: <19990214140428.B13436@mooseriver.com> <199902142209.OAA05763@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199902142209.OAA05763@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 02:09:00PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 02:09:00PM -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > Given that this is California, there should be enough truck-like > vehicles involved that someone will have enough chain and traction to > deal with something so flimsy as "doors". Of course they'll all be lowered so that they lose the transmission on a speed bump, and the owners won't let the paint job get a scratch. At least in LA, where the concept of "truck" seems to be greatly misunderstood. -- Matthew Hunt * Stay close to the Vorlon. http://www.pobox.com/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 10:16:43 1999 Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA09434 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:16:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id LAA11546; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:16:12 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990215111512.03fe1c80@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:16:04 -0700 To: Matthew Hunt , Mike Smith From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990215101142.B96546@wopr.caltech.edu> References: <199902142209.OAA05763@dingo.cdrom.com> <19990214140428.B13436@mooseriver.com> <199902142209.OAA05763@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:11 AM 2/15/99 -0800, Matthew Hunt wrote: >Of course they'll all be lowered so that they lose the transmission >on a speed bump, and the owners won't let the paint job get a >scratch. > >At least in LA, where the concept of "truck" seems to be greatly >misunderstood. Two trucks make a motorcycle, for sufficiently small values of "truck." --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 11:13:54 1999 Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA16100 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:13:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.57.138]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA56AF; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:13:46 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199902150742.AAA10571@usr08.primenet.com> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:22:55 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, kline@tera.com, brett@lariat.org, jgrosch@mooseriver.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 15-Feb-99 Terry Lambert wrote: > I personnally am very happy FreeBSD is starting to get people other > than kernel geeks (like me) involved. Now if only we could find a > lot of people who thought writing articles, books, and documentation > was a cool thing to do on the weekend. *Walks in* Hey Terry, guess ye never visited the www.freebsdzine.org? The main `leaders' of that site (which include at least: Jim Mock, Dan Langille, Robert Garrett and myself) are very actively working on all sorts of articles, just not for the ezine... Keep yer eyes open... *Walks out* --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven join #FreeBSD on Undernet asmodai(at)wxs.nl This is my Truth, tell me your's... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 11:41:15 1999 Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA20112 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:41:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.57.138]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA1C6; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:41:10 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:50:19 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics Cc: brett@lariat.org, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Terry Lambert Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 15-Feb-99 Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > Hey Terry, guess ye never visited the www.freebsdzine.org? The main > `leaders' of that site (which include at least: Jim Mock, Dan Langille, > Robert Garrett and myself) are very actively working on all sorts of > articles, just not for the ezine... Keep yer eyes open... *sigh* Read: not just, _not_ just not. =P --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven join #FreeBSD on Undernet asmodai(at)wxs.nl This is my Truth, tell me your's... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 12:18:47 1999 Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA28734 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:18:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 26164 invoked from network); 15 Feb 1999 20:18:40 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 15 Feb 1999 20:18:40 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA01687; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:18:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902152018.PAA01687@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: Brett Glass and reality (was: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics) In-Reply-To: <199902150814.BAA11333@usr08.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Feb 15, 99 08:14:53 am" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:18:24 -0500 (EST) Cc: jgrosch@mooseriver.com, brett@lariat.org, jasone@canonware.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, grog@lemis.com, kline@tera.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert said: > > You need to read the FAQ; Brett is right. From: > > http://hugin.imat.com/refund/faq/ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Q: Are users of proprietary non-Microsoft OSes on Intel, such as BeOS, > SolarisX86, SCO UnixWare, OS/2, QNX, and NeXTstep for Intel (to name > a few) also welcome? > > A: This is an initiative of and by the open-source software community. > We welcome separate efforts by users of proprietary OSes, who would > certainly have an equally valid claim. If you hear of such an effort > or want to start one, please contact arlo@linuxmafia.com, and we'll > be glad to assist (e.g., share information and link to your Web site). > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Apparently VA Research is making and distributing T-shirts for > coming to the refund day. From the wording, I think they may > specifically be Linux T-shirts, and that you have to show up > at one of the car-pool points to get one (e.g., they may not > give them out at the site if you didn't come with them). This > would definitely provide higher visibility by providing Linux > branded "uniforms". > > The in-a-way *sad* thing is that the BSD people are held to a higher standard... I wonder if the BSD people are Republicans of the free software world, and Linux people are the Democrats :-). (Allusion to the very sorry state of politics in the US -- extreme double standard.) Whether or not Brett is over-advocating, at least he has the commitment to do so. Is he anywhere as "bad" as Stallman (regarding blind, religious and judgemental advocacy), for example? How negatively has he affected the software industry? Is it anywhere nearly as bad as most of the truly religious advocates? Can Brett's attitude really be resolved to religion, or is it really concern over the distruction of the financial motivations for creativity? It is pretty obvious that it is the latter, and not the former. BSD people are not allowed to "lower" themselves to the advocacy level? That is (in a way) sad, but also good (in a way.) -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 13:48: 8 1999 Received: from gershwin.tera.com (gershwin.tera.com [207.224.230.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA11805 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:48:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kline@tera.com) Received: from athena.tera.com (athena.tera.com [207.224.230.169]) by gershwin.tera.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06976; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:47:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kline@localhost) by athena.tera.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA26691; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:47:49 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:47:48 -0800 From: Gary Kline To: Gregory Sutter Cc: Brett Glass , jgrosch@mooseriver.com, Gary Kline , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics Message-ID: <19990215134748.A26542@athena.tera.com> References: <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <19990213134206.A10635@mooseriver.com> <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> <19990214114602.P22179@orcrist.mediacity.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95us In-Reply-To: <19990214114602.P22179@orcrist.mediacity.com>; from Gregory Sutter on Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 11:46:02AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 11:46:02AM -0800, Gregory Sutter wrote: > On Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 11:59:58AM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > > At 01:42 PM 2/13/99 -0800, Josef Grosch wrote: > > [[ hyperbolic harping ... ]] > > Brett, your zealotry has reached unprecedented heights. Please keep > all harping about the evils of Linux limited to GPL/FSF/Stallman- > related topics. Those at least make sense and are within the realm > of possibility. > > >From the very first paragraph of , the > Bay Area refund organization: > > "If you are a user of Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, or another > free/Open Source operating system, you may be entitled to a refund > for unused Microsoft products bundled with your computer." > > The Bay Area movement, and Rick Moen in particular, has done a > fantastic job of uniting different OS camps in this effort, achieving > that goal without any sniping between camps (until you had to shoot > off your mouth/fingers). Just admit that, for this one day, all Open > Source (and even all non-Microsoft) OSes have a common enemy. If you > can't do that, then just shut up and let the rest of us try to get our > money back. You can resume your regular tirade on February 16th. > > Regards, > > Greg > -- > Gregory S. Sutter Bureaucrats cut red tape -- lengthwise. As much as I respect Brett Glass for his pro-*BSD sentiments, you're right, Greg. It's exactly these kinds of fractious shoutings that keep the *BSD camps in the extreme minority. gary To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 14: 7: 3 1999 Received: from wopr.caltech.edu (wopr.caltech.edu [131.215.240.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA14195 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:07:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mph@wopr.caltech.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by wopr.caltech.edu (8.9.2/8.9.1) id OAA99519; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:06:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mph) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:06:49 -0800 From: Matthew Hunt To: Gary Kline Cc: Gregory Sutter , Brett Glass , jgrosch@mooseriver.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics Message-ID: <19990215140648.A99426@wopr.caltech.edu> References: <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <19990213134206.A10635@mooseriver.com> <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> <19990214114602.P22179@orcrist.mediacity.com> <19990215134748.A26542@athena.tera.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <19990215134748.A26542@athena.tera.com>; from Gary Kline on Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 01:47:48PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 01:47:48PM -0800, Gary Kline wrote: > It's exactly these kinds of fractious shoutings > that keep the *BSD camps in the extreme minority. You're attributing our "market share" to people like Brett? It seems to me that both Microsoft and Linux have supporters who are both more offensive and more ignorant, and they seem to be doing okay. I think the segment of people who have never heard of FreeBSD is a lot bigger than the segment of people whom Brett has offended. I'm sure that the FreeBSD Project is not so fragile that it can be destroyed by a single vocal supporter. -- Matthew Hunt * UNIX is a lever for the intellect. -J.R. Mashey http://www.pobox.com/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 14:24:36 1999 Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA16385 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:24:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jackv@earthling.net) Received: from jackv (adsl-209-76-108-106.dsl.pacbell.net [209.76.108.106]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id OAA18249 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:24:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <005801be5931$a8e67e20$6a6c4cd1@jackv.pacbell.net> Reply-To: "Jack Velte" From: "Jack Velte" Cc: Subject: GNOME, the threat that Microsoft can't stop. Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:22:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.feedmag.com/re/re173_master.html An exclusive FEED interview with the man behind GNOME, the threat that Microsoft can't stop. Telecommutes don't get any bigger than this. The spearhead is a 26-year-old system administrator in Mexico City who is struggling to finish up his undergraduate degree in math. ("It's a problem," he says. "I just don't enjoy math any more.") The guy responsible for the icons lives in Helsinki and found out about the movement on Internet Relay Chat (IRC). The heart of the desktop was coded by two Berkeley undergrads -- Class of '97 -- who wrote a free version of Photoshop from scratch because they "wanted to make a web page" -- it's now the graphics application for the system. And somebody, somewhere, created in his or her free time "Wanda, the fish applet" that runs on the bottom of the screen and tells the future. Part of bottom navigation of Gnome, including Wanda the fortune-telling fish. No doubt that future is going to be damn interesting. All these people -- plus at least another 250 from around the planet -- are working on Gnome 1.0, a user-friendly, free operating system designed for you and me and people like our parents. Gnome is part of Richard Stallman's GNU Project to develop free software alternatives to proprietary code that dominates the market. (Gnome stands for "GNU Network Object Model Environment.") Scheduled for release in late February (don't tell anybody) after 14 months of heavy development, Gnome is not intended to be another free software innovation strictly for hardcore hackers. "This is aimed at regular users -- for home users or kids or secretary-people," says Miguel de Icaza, the Gnome frontman from Mexico City. "It's for people who are not trained to be programmers" -- namely, the millions stuck on Microsoft Windows or Macs or even OS/2 and not happy about it. It's an ambitious project, and one with an enormous amount of momentum. Already Gnome has a word processor ("Go"), a spreadsheet ("Gnumeric"), a calendar ("Gnomecal"), the aforementioned Photoshop clone ("Gimp"), even a Tetris rip-off in Polish ("Gnometris"). Red Hat Labs, the research and development facility at one of the best-known free software distributors, is behind it. The lab's director Dr. Mike has dedicated a team of developers to working on it: "My primary satisfaction is knowing that Gnome will allow non-technical users to enjoy the same powerful OS that I have for so long." In this interview, Gnome creator Miguel de Icaza talks about the project, the dangers of "overestimating Microsoft," and the challenge of getting an open source project off the ground. -- Austin Bunn To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 14:45:20 1999 Received: from gershwin.tera.com (gershwin.tera.com [207.224.230.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA17976 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:45:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kline@tera.com) Received: from athena.tera.com (athena.tera.com [207.224.230.169]) by gershwin.tera.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07758; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:45:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kline@localhost) by athena.tera.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA26948; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:45:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:45:12 -0800 From: Gary Kline To: Matthew Hunt Cc: Gary Kline , Gregory Sutter , Brett Glass , jgrosch@mooseriver.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics Message-ID: <19990215144512.B26542@athena.tera.com> References: <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <199902132126.NAA14285@athena.tera.com> <19990213134206.A10635@mooseriver.com> <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> <19990214114602.P22179@orcrist.mediacity.com> <19990215134748.A26542@athena.tera.com> <19990215140648.A99426@wopr.caltech.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95us In-Reply-To: <19990215140648.A99426@wopr.caltech.edu>; from Matthew Hunt on Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 02:06:49PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 02:06:49PM -0800, Matthew Hunt wrote: > On Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 01:47:48PM -0800, Gary Kline wrote: > > > It's exactly these kinds of fractious shoutings > > that keep the *BSD camps in the extreme minority. > > You're attributing our "market share" to people like Brett? It seems > to me that both Microsoft and Linux have supporters who are both > more offensive and more ignorant, and they seem to be doing okay. > > I think the segment of people who have never heard of FreeBSD is a > lot bigger than the segment of people whom Brett has offended. > > I'm sure that the FreeBSD Project is not so fragile that it can be > destroyed by a single vocal supporter. > I think we've got to have more unity--more cooperation-- among the 3 flavors of BSD before the great majority of BSD users will be other than geeks and nerds. I also believe that Linux is billions of times better than DOS/Lose, and that FBSD is better than Linux. But my personal biases are beside the point. At issue is a display of unity in the Free-unix|open-source movement against M$. People need to chill... gary To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 15:14:36 1999 Received: from orcrist.mediacity.com (orcrist.mediacity.com [208.138.36.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA20895; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:14:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@orcrist.mediacity.com) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by orcrist.mediacity.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA19985; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:14:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:14:38 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, announce@bafug.org Subject: Windows Refund Day: Bay Area Report Message-ID: <19990215151438.A19842@orcrist.mediacity.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FreeBSD folk, This report is being written from the CoffeeNet, where we've all met after the event in Foster City. We didn't exactly "storm the Gates", but both the Linux and FreeBSD communities turned out in force, accompanied by a couple of others (I saw a Sun and an SCO person). We got to the parking garage where the Microsoft "welcome table" was set up. There were Microsoft-sponsored refreshments and a lot of press, including many major stations. A few of us grabbed some press members with cameras and headed for the main entrance. We arrived and were greeted by a friendly Microsoft security guard, who told us that we were not allowed to go up to the ninth floor (where the Microsoft offices are). When the press members began questioning her, she called another person, who apparently called security, because they showed up long before any Microsoft representative would talk to us. I was interviewed by several press members at this time, right from the lobby of the Microsoft office. Several others had arrived by this time and we were becoming more forceful in our attempts to get to the Microsoft Office. People began getting on the elevators, only to find that they had been locked down so that nobody could visit the ninth floor. those going to the tenth and using the stairs found that the stair doors were locked from the inside as well, so nobody actually got into the office. (Later, they locked the elevators down completely.) After twenty minutes or so of increased numbers of refund attempters, a person claiming to be a Microsoft representative appeared. While several of us attempted to get some straight answers out of him, he would only give us the typical Microsoft doubletalk. He handed out a sheet explaining Microsoft's statement on the refund policy[1] and would only echo what was contained on that paper. Although several tried, we were unable to get him to admit even that this was Microsoft policy and not just a random statement. Around this time, the rest of the group arrived and the press began seriously interviewing everyone. I saw Eric Raymond and many others being questioned repeatedly on the purpose of the gathering and whether Microsoft had issued a statement. There was a _lot_ of mass media presence at the event, and Microsoft's attempts to stonewall us at the door didn't impress anyone. I look forward to the news reports tonight and tomorrow. Toward the end, we all just stood in the courtyard and kibitzed before finally breaking up around 1:45 to return to our regularly scheduled activities (and a fine gathering at the CoffeeNet). Gregory Sutter, reporting for OSS News[2], signing off. [1] For the full document, see after 20:00 PST today. [2] and Daemon News. Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter My reality check just bounced. mailto:gsutter@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 15:52:59 1999 Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA25215 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:52:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA24635; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:52:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd024596; Mon Feb 15 16:52:47 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA19305; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:52:45 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902152352.QAA19305@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: FreeBSD at Windows Refund Day To: dyson@iquest.net Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 23:52:45 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, jgrosch@mooseriver.com, brett@lariat.org, jasone@canonware.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, grog@lemis.com, kline@tera.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902152018.PAA01687@y.dyson.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Feb 15, 99 03:18:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Windows Refund Day Well, a number of FreeBSD people actually showed up to "show the flag" on "Windows Refund Day". Not knowing the target time and being a Foster City resident, rather than going to Oakland and carpooling back to Foster City, I showed up a little before 11am. The signs all said "Microsoft Event", and pointed around back to the parking garage, where Microsoft had deflected the event to the top floor of the parking garage. The Foster City Police Department was out in record numbers. I counted five officers, which means that they had the normal contingent, plus two officers on overtime. There were a number of private security officers there, as well, apparently employees of the property management company that owns the building where the Microsoft sales office is enshrined. Being fully an hour early, there were few advocates, a few officers, a grundle of reporters (I'd estimate around 50 of them) and the members of the band "Severe Tire Damage", attempting to gain entry to the garage to set up their equipment. Severe Tire Damage was denied on the basis of noise ordinances; the parking garage was perhaps as mush as 10 minutes walk from the Leo J. Ryan Park in Foster City, where there are weekly free concerts Friday evening throughout the summer. In addition to the reporters, there was a professionally done silk screened banner proclaiming "Microsoft Welcomes The Linux Community", under which various beverages were placed on a table (generally referred to throughout the event as "The Kool Aide"). Also on the table were letters from Microsoft, claiming that you had your choice of any OS on your PC (apparently, laptops aren't PCs), and that you should contact the manufacturer for a refund, not Microsoft. Also president was a Microsoft Spokesman (toeing the company line). Prior to the zero hour of 12 noon, Microsoft people "rebadged" the "Microsoft Event" signs as "Linux Event" signs -- excellent spin control, actually, given that what started out as "Windows Refund Day" was first downgraded to "Microsoft Event", and then "Linux Event". The only thing that felt missing from the spin control process was an "InstallShield" dialog box, with progress indicator, and two reboots. Who says Microsoft doesn't support hot swapping? I was rather disappointed in the V.A. Research T-shirts. As expected, they were more specific to Linux than they were to the Windows Refund Day event. At around 12 noon, the parade made its entry, apparently from the CostCo parking lot, down Vintage Park Drive, and left on Tower Lane. Visible were many V.A. Research shirts, numerours penguins, several FreeBSD shirts, and Eric Raymond, in a Yoda robe. Pausing briefly for a photo opportunity, and then crossing the street in groups so as to not block traffic, the group enetered the parking structure, and, apparently for best visual effect, headed up the ramp to the fourth floor. As things wound up tighter, the people who had a legitimate refund claim were herded into a corner for a rehersal of the plan of action: the people would go in in groups, no more than 10 at a time, take the elevator to the 9th floor office, and politely and firmly request a refund. This worked for the first several groups; or "worked", inasmuch that no refund was forthcoming, and the supplicants were not permitted to enter the Microsoft offices, proper. Contrary to Microsoft's claims of making personnel available to answer questions, after the first several groups, Microsoft locked off the elevator access to their floor. Attempts were made to go to a floor higher or lower, and walk the stairs, but the stairs were only for fire escape, and so those attempting that route had to exit at street level, refundless. Much was made of the failure to obtain refunds; you will undoubtedly see and hear those in at least the first and second groups in interviews published over the next few days. Apparently, it has already been on CNN (Hi, Mom!). Maybe they won't cut out the FreeBSD T-shirts out of the picture, or report it as a Linux event, like Microsoft tried to spin it. But I won't hold my breath. 8-(. Other than Eric Raymond declaiming to a reporter "Where do we go next? We're taking over the servers and the corporate IS.", and the poor BSD turnout relative to the Linux numbers (why didn't someone bring the FreeBSD flag from the trade show materials at Walnut Cree CDROM? Several CDROM people were there), all in all a good way to spend a Monday. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 16: 6:24 1999 Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA27310 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:06:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA18684; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:05:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Terry Lambert cc: dyson@iquest.net, jgrosch@mooseriver.com, brett@lariat.org, jasone@canonware.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, grog@lemis.com, kline@tera.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD at Windows Refund Day In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 15 Feb 1999 23:52:45 GMT." <199902152352.QAA19305@usr02.primenet.com> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:05:27 -0800 Message-ID: <18680.919123527@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > BSD turnout relative to the Linux numbers (why didn't someone bring > the FreeBSD flag from the trade show materials at Walnut Cree CDROM? Probably because we don't have a FreeBSD flag in the trade show materials. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 16:33:39 1999 Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01791 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:33:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt8-216-180-14-6.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.14.6] (may be forged)) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA05694 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:33:31 -0600 (CST) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id SAA04119 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:33:29 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Message-Id: <199902160033.SAA04119@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: FreeBSD at Windows Refund Day In-reply-to: Message from "Jordan K. Hubbard" of "Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:05:27 PST." <18680.919123527@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:33:29 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: > > BSD turnout relative to the Linux numbers (why didn't someone bring > > the FreeBSD flag from the trade show materials at Walnut Cree CDROM? > > Probably because we don't have a FreeBSD flag in the trade show > materials. :) Quick! Everyone should contribute their Microsoft Refunds to the FreeBSD Flag Fund! :-) -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 16:36:18 1999 Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA02149 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:36:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA19935; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:35:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19990215163547.A19905@mooseriver.com> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:35:47 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Terry Lambert Cc: dyson@iquest.net, brett@lariat.org, jasone@canonware.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, grog@lemis.com, kline@tera.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD at Windows Refund Day Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com References: <199902152352.QAA19305@usr02.primenet.com> <18680.919123527@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <18680.919123527@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 04:05:27PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 04:05:27PM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > BSD turnout relative to the Linux numbers (why didn't someone bring > > the FreeBSD flag from the trade show materials at Walnut Cree CDROM? > > Probably because we don't have a FreeBSD flag in the trade show > materials. :) Note to self, Get banner made for future events ...... Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 17: 1: 9 1999 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA05280 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:01:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA10960; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:00:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199902160100.RAA10960@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Terry Lambert , dyson@iquest.net, jgrosch@mooseriver.com, brett@lariat.org, jasone@canonware.com, grog@lemis.com, kline@tera.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD at Windows Refund Day In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:05:27 PST." <18680.919123527@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:00:21 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > BSD turnout relative to the Linux numbers (why didn't someone bring > > the FreeBSD flag from the trade show materials at Walnut Cree CDROM? > > Probably because we don't have a FreeBSD flag in the trade show > materials. :) > > - Jordan Say whatever happen to the Daemon dolls . It would have been perfect for the demo --- something for microsoft in their spare time to squeeze 8) Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 17: 1:33 1999 Received: from gershwin.tera.com ([207.224.230.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA05366 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:01:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kline@tera.com) Received: from athena.tera.com (athena.tera.com [207.224.230.169]) by gershwin.tera.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA09268; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:00:30 -0800 (PST) From: Gary Kline Received: (from kline@localhost) by athena.tera.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA27588; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:00:30 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902160100.RAA27588@athena.tera.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD at Windows Refund Day In-Reply-To: <199902152352.QAA19305@usr02.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Feb 15, 99 11:52:45 pm" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:00:30 -0800 (PST) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, tlambert@primenet.com, jgrosch@mooseriver.com, brett@lariat.org, jasone@canonware.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, grog@lemis.com, kline@tera.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL23 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Terry Lambert: > Windows Refund Day > > > Well, a number of FreeBSD people actually showed up to "show the flag" > on "Windows Refund Day". > [[ .. ]] > > Other than Eric Raymond declaiming to a reporter "Where do we go next? > We're taking over the servers and the corporate IS.", and the poor > BSD turnout relative to the Linux numbers (why didn't someone bring > the FreeBSD flag from the trade show materials at Walnut Cree CDROM? > Several CDROM people were there), all in all a good way to spend a > Monday. > > Thanks for the great reporting, Terry. Besides the regular press, did anyone get this on tape?? Seems to me that this event could grow into an hour show for Nova or NPR. And if we're lucky, other non-sensational news orgs (like the BBC). Brett, this is entirely fit for your skills....seems to me. gary To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 17: 3:46 1999 Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA05784 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:03:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA18978; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:02:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Amancio Hasty cc: Terry Lambert , dyson@iquest.net, jgrosch@mooseriver.com, brett@lariat.org, jasone@canonware.com, grog@lemis.com, kline@tera.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD at Windows Refund Day In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:00:21 PST." <199902160100.RAA10960@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:02:52 -0800 Message-ID: <18974.919126972@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org They're still somewhere in production. I don't know when they'll arrive. - Jordan > > > BSD turnout relative to the Linux numbers (why didn't someone bring > > > the FreeBSD flag from the trade show materials at Walnut Cree CDROM? > > > > Probably because we don't have a FreeBSD flag in the trade show > > materials. :) > > > > - Jordan > > Say whatever happen to the Daemon dolls . It would have been > perfect for the demo --- something for microsoft in their spare > time to squeeze 8) > > Cheers, > Amancio > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 17: 4:30 1999 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA05863 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:04:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA11004; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:03:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199902160103.RAA11004@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Terry Lambert , dyson@iquest.net, brett@lariat.org, jasone@canonware.com, grog@lemis.com, kline@tera.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD at Windows Refund Day In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:35:47 PST." <19990215163547.A19905@mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:03:55 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I do believe that we have a few hardware engineers and physics on board so , how about one those laser gadgets to animate Chucky on walls 8) Have Fun Guys! Amancio > On Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 04:05:27PM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > BSD turnout relative to the Linux numbers (why didn't someone bring > > > the FreeBSD flag from the trade show materials at Walnut Cree CDROM? > > > > Probably because we don't have a FreeBSD flag in the trade show > > materials. :) > > Note to self, Get banner made for future events ...... > > > Josef > > -- > Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 > jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 17:19:47 1999 Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles332.castles.com [208.214.167.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA07509 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:19:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA13649 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:15:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199902160115.RAA13649@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 15 Feb 1999 06:33:11 MST." <4.1.19990215063152.040ced40@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:15:15 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > At 07:28 AM 2/15/99 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > >Think adult she-devil halloween costumes at an "All-A-Dollar" or a > >"Pic-N-Save" type store, where they tend to shovel out off season > >goods for very cheap. > > I don't know if they need to go THAT cheap. However, leather catsuits > of the type described in Mike's message typically start at $500 for > "basic black" and go 'way up for custom colors. That's a hefty > investment. You get what you pay for. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 19:21:41 1999 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA19645 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:21:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA12597 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:21:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199902160321.TAA12597@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: The Great Linux Event ! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:21:31 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2209072,00.html Read On, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 19:23: 5 1999 Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles245.castles.com [208.214.165.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA19846 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:23:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA14239; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:18:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199902160318.TAA14239@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Matthew Hunt cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:06:49 PST." <19990215140648.A99426@wopr.caltech.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:18:26 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > I'm sure that the FreeBSD Project is not so fragile that it can be > destroyed by a single vocal supporter. Be that as it may, I'm glad we "lost" Eric Raymond. He made a complete fool of himself today, as usual. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 19:29:11 1999 Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA20540 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:29:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA08292; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:59:02 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id NAA00577; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:59:00 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19990216135900.A463@lemis.com> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:59:00 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Amancio Hasty , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Microsoft refunds (was: The Great Linux Event !) References: <199902160321.TAA12597@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199902160321.TAA12597@rah.star-gate.com>; from Amancio Hasty on Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 07:21:31PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 15 February 1999 at 19:21:31 -0800, Amancio Hasty wrote: > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2209072,00.html It's funny that nobody has taken issue with the fact that Microsoft refuses to even meet people with a legitimate business request. It's one thing for them to hold a reception for people who are just along for the ride, but they should have been available for the people who wanted their money back. I see their action as being in a breach of their own license. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 19:37:12 1999 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA21356 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:37:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA12801; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:36:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199902160336.TAA12801@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Greg Lehey cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft refunds (was: The Great Linux Event !) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:59:00 +1030." <19990216135900.A463@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:36:57 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi Greg! When I read the news article I said : "Ouch -- Microsoft f** up " It is almost as they want to be sue to prove I guess that Linux is a viable option --- very weird and it should be very interesting to see how it turns out. My take after a short analysis Microsoft is going to start handing out the refunds so lets see what the week brings 8) Cheers, Amancio > On Monday, 15 February 1999 at 19:21:31 -0800, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2209072,00.html > > It's funny that nobody has taken issue with the fact that Microsoft > refuses to even meet people with a legitimate business request. It's > one thing for them to hold a reception for people who are just along > for the ride, but they should have been available for the people who > wanted their money back. I see their action as being in a breach of > their own license. > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 19:40:50 1999 Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles245.castles.com [208.214.165.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA21988 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:40:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA14355; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:35:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199902160335.TAA14355@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Terry Lambert cc: dyson@iquest.net, jgrosch@mooseriver.com, brett@lariat.org, jasone@canonware.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, grog@lemis.com, kline@tera.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD at Windows Refund Day In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 15 Feb 1999 23:52:45 GMT." <199902152352.QAA19305@usr02.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:35:19 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > ... and the poor > BSD turnout relative to the Linux numbers (why didn't someone bring > the FreeBSD flag from the trade show materials at Walnut Cree CDROM? > Several CDROM people were there), One (I) was there. The only "flag" I'm aware of is the 8' booth banner, which would have been near impossible to carry or display. As it was, I think almost every marcher and media face went away with a FreeBSD 3.0 CDROM, stickers, promo lit, and as much patter as Josef and I could manage to ram at them. I also managed to interfere with ESR several times in order to get himself to correct his phrasing (linux -> relevant term), and stickered him on camera. > all in all a good way to spend a > Monday. Too cold for me, but certainly worthwhile. Where were the rest of you lazy bastards? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 20:11:28 1999 Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA25869 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:11:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id VAA17222; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:11:21 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990215205736.03f18100@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:11:16 -0700 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: Brett Glass Subject: Windows Refund Day Press Reports: Linux, Linux, Linux In-Reply-To: <199902160335.TAA14355@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Unfortunately, the very thing I expected to happen DID happen: the "Linux faithful" appear to have made sure that FreeBSD was not mentioned in news coverage of the event. The following articles mentioned Linux exclusively: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_279000/279926.stm http://www.zdnet.com/zdtv/zdtvnews/ (See February 15th early and late news reports) http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/cte395.htm http://www.mercurycenter.com/svtech/news/breaking/ap/docs/148082l.htm This one happened to mention OS/2 (follow the link from the "news burst" to the main article): http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/filters/bursts/0,3422,2209061,00.html This one actually mentioned FreeBSD, but only as one of a laundry list of operating systems: http://www.mercurycenter.com/svtech/news/breaking/reuters/docs/146260l.htm In short, the FreeBSD users who joined the group were represented to the press by the organizers as being Linux enthusiasts. This is what I was concerned about. The FreeBSD supporters who attended were taken for a ride. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 20:20:52 1999 Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA26969 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:20:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from lot.gsoft.com.au (doconnor@lot.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.106]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA11362; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:49:25 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199902160335.TAA14355@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:49:25 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Mike Smith Subject: Re: FreeBSD at Windows Refund Day Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, kline@tera.com, grog@lemis.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, jasone@canonware.com, brett@lariat.org, jgrosch@mooseriver.com, dyson@iquest.net, Terry Lambert Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 16-Feb-99 Mike Smith wrote: > > all in all a good way to spend a > > Monday. > Too cold for me, but certainly worthwhile. Where were the rest of you > lazy bastards? It was too far to ride. --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 20:31:39 1999 Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA27809 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:31:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id VAA17440; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:31:32 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990215213036.03f17460@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:31:31 -0700 To: David Kelly , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: FreeBSD at Windows Refund Day In-Reply-To: <199902160033.SAA04119@nospam.hiwaay.net> References: <18680.919123527@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 06:33 PM 2/15/99 -0600, David Kelly wrote: >Quick! Everyone should contribute their Microsoft Refunds to the >FreeBSD Flag Fund! :-) If we can get some materials and artwork, I and my wife (whom Jordan met at COMDEX) will volunteer to do the sewing. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 20:34:25 1999 Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA28031 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:34:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id VAA17479; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:34:09 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990215213350.00c95460@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:34:04 -0700 To: Mike Smith , Matthew Hunt From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902160318.TAA14239@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:18 PM 2/15/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >Be that as it may, I'm glad we "lost" Eric Raymond. He made a complete >fool of himself today, as usual. How? Do tell. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 21: 1: 2 1999 Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA00654 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:01:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id VAA17467; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:33:18 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990215213239.040ebde0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:33:16 -0700 To: Mike Smith , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics In-Reply-To: <199902160115.RAA13649@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 05:15 PM 2/15/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >You get what you pay for. 8) But... but... I just downloaded FreeBSD 3.1, and I paid.... ;-) --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 21: 5:24 1999 Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA01285 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:05:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4025.ime.net [209.90.195.35]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.3/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id AAA03352; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 00:02:20 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990215235645.03bd4650@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 23:57:24 -0500 To: Mike Smith , Terry Lambert From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: FreeBSD at Windows Refund Day Cc: dyson@iquest.net, jgrosch@mooseriver.com, brett@lariat.org, jasone@canonware.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, grog@lemis.com, kline@tera.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902160335.TAA14355@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:35 PM 2/15/99 , Mike Smith wrote: >> ... and the poor >> BSD turnout relative to the Linux numbers (why didn't someone bring >> the FreeBSD flag from the trade show materials at Walnut Cree CDROM? >> Several CDROM people were there), > >One (I) was there. The only "flag" I'm aware of is the 8' booth >banner, which would have been near impossible to carry or display. > >As it was, I think almost every marcher and media face went away with a >FreeBSD 3.0 CDROM, stickers, promo lit, and as much patter as Josef and >I could manage to ram at them. I also managed to interfere with ESR >several times in order to get himself to correct his phrasing (linux >-> relevant term), and stickered him on camera. > >> all in all a good way to spend a >> Monday. > >Too cold for me, but certainly worthwhile. Where were the rest of you >lazy bastards? I was here in my 'NOC' playing Forsaken., Because alas, I'm in Maine, and all that people do here is 'play that nifty solitaire thingy that comes with the computer'. Sickening, I know. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP DSS/1024 Public Key ID: 0x409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 21:18:38 1999 Received: from jason03.u.washington.edu (jason03.u.washington.edu [140.142.77.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA02673 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:18:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul2.u.washington.edu (root@saul2.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.21]) by jason03.u.washington.edu (8.9.2+UW99.01/8.9.2+UW99.01) with ESMTP id VAA22164 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:18:30 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul2.u.washington.edu (8.9.2+UW99.01/8.9.2+UW99.01) with ESMTP id VAA32064 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:18:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:17:53 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: FreeBSD-chat Subject: We should all read this Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.oreilly.com/ask_tim/ Good talk about how PR can be done. Catchya Later, | Give me UNIX or give me a typewriter. Jason Wells | http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 21:22: 5 1999 Received: from jason03.u.washington.edu (jason03.u.washington.edu [140.142.77.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA03200 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:22:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul9.u.washington.edu (root@saul9.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.7]) by jason03.u.washington.edu (8.9.2+UW99.01/8.9.2+UW99.01) with ESMTP id VAA22130 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:22:02 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul9.u.washington.edu (8.9.2+UW99.01/8.9.2+UW99.01) with ESMTP id VAA05494 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:22:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:21:26 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Love You OS ? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://unix.oreilly.com/news/unix_love_0299.html I was cruising ORA tonight. This is cute. Only a nerd could understand this article. Catchya Later, | Give me UNIX or give me a typewriter. Jason Wells | http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 21:47:39 1999 Received: from fep2-orange.clear.net.nz (fep2-orange.clear.net.nz [203.97.32.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA05693 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:47:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from crh@outpost.co.nz) Received: from outpost.co.nz (d4-u59.wgtn.clear.net.nz [203.97.51.59]) by fep2-orange.clear.net.nz (1.5/1.9) with ESMTP id SAA22820; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:47:24 +1300 (NZDT) Message-Id: <199902160547.SAA22820@fep2-orange.clear.net.nz> Received: (qmail 4724 invoked from network); 16 Feb 1999 05:46:23 -0000 Received: from officedonkey.acme.gen.nz (HELO officedonkey) (192.168.1.3) by evil-smelling-bugger.acme.gen.nz with SMTP; 16 Feb 1999 05:46:23 -0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Craig Harding" Organization: Outpost Digital Media Ltd To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:45:57 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Newsflash: The Media Are Stupid Reply-to: crh@outpost.co.nz X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org So Brett Glass sends a major alert to the list, pointing out that the mainstream news media so far have only focused on Linux users as participants in Windows Refund Day. "It's all a big Linux users conspiracy" he cries. "Something Must Be Done."[1] Apart from not knowing what this Something might be to make Linux people spontaneously be nice to FreeBSD people [2], Brett's apparent enthusiasm for conspiracy theories and Linux bashing have caused him to miss the real problem: Mainstream journalists are stupid. Really stupid. The media's specialty "Science & Technology" reporters often know surprisingly little about technical matters, so expecting normal journo's to grasp the subtleties of the "huge" differences between FreeBSD and Linux[3] (for example) is wildly optimistic at best. I run a video production company, which among other things provides freelance camera crews for the daily news bulletin of one of the two national television networks in New Zealand. I frequently work alongside well-known TV reporters. They're great people, but the nature of the game is that stories are usually 75% written before the journo begins the first interview. Even if they do understand the intricacies involved (such as the journo I worked with covering an airline crash investigation who holds a private pilot's license), their explicit goal is to present the story in a way that will appeal to the average person in the street - complicated parts of the story are deliberately simplified. Admittedly my experience is primarily in TV news, which sticks to the shallow end of the journalism pool. But let's be honest - with a few notable exceptions, the mainstream media isn't interested in reporting in depth any more. Note that while I strongly disagree with Brett about his Linux-bashing, I deplore attempts to silence him. In case you haven't been paying attention, one of the instrumental factors in Linux's success was clearly the uncontrolled, over-the-top, blind, ignorant, evangelical advocacy of lots of Linux enthusiasts. They didn't check their activities with any PR co-ordinator or core team, they just went around telling people Linux is the greatest thing in the world, irregardless of how wrong that was. I'm not, BTW, trying to say that Brett is ignorant or blind (which I realise could be the inference from my previous paragraph). I'm just saying one of the things FreeBSD needs is people willing to simply advocate the bloody OS! Even blindly, even if they're doing it in a manner that would cause the core team to reach for the nuke switch. Sure a paid PR or marketing position associated with WC is a good thing (actually a great thing), but we need the other stuff as well. BTW Brett - while you were lamenting the evils of Linux, the FreeBSDers who actually attended Windows Refund Day and handed out FreeBSD stuff probably achieved far more for FreeBSD advocacy. This is getting Lambert-esque - I better stop. -- C. [1] Yes this is wildly paraphrasing. I'll now wildly paraphrase my own message to save the flamers the trouble: "Whine whine namedrop proof-by-association whine". [2] A few of the ideas that sprang to mind: Kidnap the penguin Kidnap Linus Buy out Microsoft, rename Win 2000 to Inferior-To-FreeBSD 1.0 Buy out NBC, rename MSNBC to BSD News Appoint Jordan as the next Pope. Encourage Terry to stop holding back and tell us what he really thinks. [3] Some of those enormous differences, as seen by a journalist: Linux is an OS alternative to Windows, it's roughly based on Unix[tm], it's freely available for download on the Internet, it runs web servers better than Windows. FreeBSD is an OS alternative to Windows, it's roughly based on Unix[tm], it's freely available for download on the Internet, it runs web servers better than Windows. Yeah, I see it much clearer now. Chalk and cheese. -- Craig Harding Head of Postproduction, Outpost Digital Media Ltd "I don't know about God, I just think we're handmade" - Polly To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 21:57:10 1999 Received: from chopin.seattleu.edu (chopin.seattleu.edu [206.81.198.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA06521 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:57:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hodeleri@seattleu.edu) Received: from seattleu.edu ([172.17.41.90]) by chopin.seattleu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA13964; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:56:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C908BC.421A4CF3@seattleu.edu> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:57:16 -0800 From: Eric Hodel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: crh@outpost.co.nz CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Newsflash: The Media Are Stupid References: <199902160547.SAA22820@fep2-orange.clear.net.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You've got my vote. > Buy out Microsoft, rename Win 2000 to Inferior-To-FreeBSD 1.0 > Buy out NBC, rename MSNBC to BSD News > Appoint Jordan as the next Pope. -- Eric Hodel hodeleri@seattleu.edu Where do you want to go today? http://www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 22:15: 6 1999 Received: from jason04.u.washington.edu (jason04.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA08422 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:15:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul2.u.washington.edu (root@saul2.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.21]) by jason04.u.washington.edu (8.9.2+UW99.01/8.9.2+UW99.01) with ESMTP id WAA22512; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:14:59 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul2.u.washington.edu (8.9.2+UW99.01/8.9.2+UW99.01) with ESMTP id WAA02113; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:14:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:14:23 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: Eric Hodel cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Newsflash: The Media Are Stupid In-Reply-To: <36C908BC.421A4CF3@seattleu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 15 Feb 1999, Eric Hodel wrote: >You've got my vote. >> Buy out Microsoft, rename Win 2000 to Inferior-To-FreeBSD 1.0 >> Buy out NBC, rename MSNBC to BSD News >> Appoint Jordan as the next Pope. I am not sure I could let a Pope like that kiss any babies. Catchya Later, | Give me UNIX or give me a typewriter. Jason Wells | http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 22:15:23 1999 Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA08499 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:15:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.57.29]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA69B4; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 07:15:19 +0100 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (daemon.ninth-circle.org [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA95716; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 07:22:36 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <005801be5931$a8e67e20$6a6c4cd1@jackv.pacbell.net> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 07:22:36 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Jack Velte Subject: RE: GNOME, the threat that Microsoft can't stop. Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 15-Feb-99 Jack Velte wrote: > Part of bottom navigation of Gnome, including Wanda the fortune-telling > fish. > > No doubt that future is going to be damn interesting. All these people -- > plus at least another 250 from around the planet -- are working on Gnome > 1.0, a user-friendly, free operating system designed for you and me and > people like our parents. Gnome is part of Richard Stallman's GNU Project I sincerely hops that the Operating System line is a typo. Gnome is only a GFX frontend. --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven join #FreeBSD on Undernet asmodai(at)wxs.nl This is my Truth, tell me your's... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 22:17:46 1999 Received: from stumpy.dannyland.org (danman.isdn.uiuc.edu [192.17.16.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA08768 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:17:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dannyman@stumpy.dannyland.org) Received: (qmail 2258 invoked by uid 1000); 16 Feb 1999 06:17:56 -0000 Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 00:17:56 -0600 From: dannyman To: "Jason C. Wells" Cc: Eric Hodel , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Newsflash: The Media Are Stupid Message-ID: <19990216001756.R1256@stumpy.dannyland.org> References: <36C908BC.421A4CF3@seattleu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: ; from Jason C. Wells on Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 10:14:23PM -0800 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 10:14:23PM -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: > On Mon, 15 Feb 1999, Eric Hodel wrote: > > >You've got my vote. > >> Buy out Microsoft, rename Win 2000 to Inferior-To-FreeBSD 1.0 > >> Buy out NBC, rename MSNBC to BSD News > >> Appoint Jordan as the next Pope. > > I am not sure I could let a Pope like that kiss any babies. Maybe he could content himself with fathering your babies. -d -- dannyman - http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 22:24:25 1999 Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA09351 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:24:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id WAA20322; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:23:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: dannyman cc: "Jason C. Wells" , Eric Hodel , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Newsflash: The Media Are Stupid In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Feb 1999 00:17:56 CST." <19990216001756.R1256@stumpy.dannyland.org> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:23:52 -0800 Message-ID: <20319.919146232@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "OK, OK, everyone stop it. It's silly! The bit about Microsoft and Linux was OK, but then it just got silly! Carry on!" > On Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 10:14:23PM -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: > > On Mon, 15 Feb 1999, Eric Hodel wrote: > > > > >You've got my vote. > > > >> Buy out Microsoft, rename Win 2000 to Inferior-To-FreeBSD 1.0 > > >> Buy out NBC, rename MSNBC to BSD News > > >> Appoint Jordan as the next Pope. > > > > I am not sure I could let a Pope like that kiss any babies. > > Maybe he could content himself with fathering your babies. > > -d > > -- > dannyman - http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 22:25: 8 1999 Received: from stumpy.dannyland.org (danman.isdn.uiuc.edu [192.17.16.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA09514 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:25:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dannyman@stumpy.dannyland.org) Received: (qmail 2347 invoked by uid 1000); 16 Feb 1999 06:25:15 -0000 Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 00:25:15 -0600 From: dannyman To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: "Jason C. Wells" , Eric Hodel , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Newsflash: The Media Are Stupid Message-ID: <19990216002514.S1256@stumpy.dannyland.org> References: <19990216001756.R1256@stumpy.dannyland.org> <20319.919146232@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <20319.919146232@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 10:23:52PM -0800 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 10:23:52PM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > "OK, OK, everyone stop it. It's silly! The bit about Microsoft and > Linux was OK, but then it just got silly! Carry on!" Damn constrictive core members. ;) -danny -- dannyman - http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 22:56: 9 1999 Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA12780 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:56:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA21214; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:55:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19990215225553.A21200@mooseriver.com> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:55:53 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD Counter Page Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FreeBSD Counter Project The FreeBSD Counter project and BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) have put up the first public beta of its counter page. The Counter project is an attempt to gauge the installed base of FreeBSD. We current do not have a very good idea as to what is our installed base, how FreeBSD is being used and by whom. Because of this, FreeBSD is at a disadvantage when talking to ISVs and hardware and software vendors. You are invited to register with the counter project. The counter page can be found at : http://www.bafug.org/FbsdCounter.html Couple of caveats: * Your information is held to be confidential. Only those on the project, FreeBSD core group, and Walnut Creek CDROM will ever see this information. It will _NOT_ be handed over to spammers, direct marketers, and any of the other assorted bozos. * Suggestions and comments are welcome! * The database behind this page was built from the email registrations sent to Walnut Creek. If you registered at the time of an install chances are you are in this database. This is posted every 1st and 15th of the month. -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 22:57:28 1999 Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA12920 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:57:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA21236; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:57:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19990215225722.B21200@mooseriver.com> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:57:22 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD Retail Page Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Retail outlets for FreeBSD A common question for new users of FreeBSD is, "Where can I get a copy of FreeBSD"? Aside from Walnut Creek CDROM (http://www.cdrom.com) there are a number of retail outlets world wide. A partial list can be found at http://www.bafug.org/Retail.html Notice this is a partial list. We are collecting addresses (snail, email, and web) of retail outlets for FreeBSD. So, send us the address of you friendly (or not-so-friendly) store that carries FreeBSD. This notice is posted twice a month, on the 1st and the 15th. -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 15 23:46:16 1999 Received: from fep03-svc.tin.it (mta03-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA17439 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 23:46:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from molter@tin.it) Received: from nympha.ecomotor.it ([212.216.1.31]) by fep03-svc.tin.it (InterMail v4.0 201-221-105) with SMTP id <19990216074611.BFPE19448.fep03-svc@nympha.ecomotor.it> for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:46:11 +0100 Received: (qmail 749 invoked by uid 1000); 16 Feb 1999 07:45:46 -0000 From: "Marco Molteni" Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:45:46 +0100 (CET) X-Sender: molter@nympha To: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: Love You OS ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 15 Feb 1999, Jason C. Wells wrote: > http://unix.oreilly.com/news/unix_love_0299.html > > I was cruising ORA tonight. This is cute. Only a nerd could understand > this article. I *love* it :-) Marco To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 0:51:59 1999 Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA23349 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 00:51:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10CgEU-0003jt-00 for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:51:55 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id IAA01762 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:51:25 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (gppsun4) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02489; Tue, 16 Feb 99 08:51:22 GMT Message-Id: <36C93185.AA11017E@uk.radan.com> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:51:18 +0000 From: Mark Ovens Organization: Radan Computational Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Chuck GIF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jordan K Hubbard wrote: > We are pleased, as always, to announce the availability of > 3.1-RELEASE, the much anticipated follow-on release to FreeBSD 3.0 > (released November, 1998). Many hundreds of bug fixes and general > enhancements have been made to the system so please see the release > notes at http://www.freebsd.org/releases/3.1R/notes.html for more > information. > I love the GIF of Chuck delivering the goods at http://www.freebsd.org/releases :-) -- FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov _______________________________________________________________ Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 2:46:49 1999 Received: from ice.cold.org (cold.org [206.81.134.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA02414 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 02:46:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brandon@ice.cold.org) Received: (from brandon@localhost) by ice.cold.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) id DAA13809 for freebsd-chat@freeBSD.org; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 03:46:47 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 03:46:47 -0700 From: Brandon Gillespie To: freebsd-chat@freeBSD.org Subject: FreeBSD administrator/consultant db on web... Message-ID: <19990216034647.A13474@ice.cold.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="yrj/dFKFPuw6o+aM"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE X-PGP-Public-Key: http://www.roguetrader.com/~brandon/brandon@roguetrader_com.pubkey Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --yrj/dFKFPuw6o+aM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Recently in my area I was put in contact with a company that had been seeking FreeBSD help for a while (specifically for an upgrade to 3.0), and they ended up digging up (as he put it) a 'linux admin' who was woefully incompetent with FreeBSD and ended up formatting both of their systems (loosing all data), after wedging them to a point where he couldn't recover them (although from what I understand it was probably a simple error). Regardless, the manager made the comment to me that 'you [FreeBSD] guys are very hard to find' which made me consider things a little bit.=20 Most people I know are willing to do a little freelance work, regardless of the current job they may hold. With this in mind it might not be a bad idea to have a resource available where FreeBSD admins who are interested in work (temporary freelance or permanent) can simply register their name and area they are in, along with contact information. Other people and businesses would be able to use this to get ahold of help more readilly. The service would definitely want to have a disclaimer, and despite the fun factor it shouldn't keep information on skill levels nor anything other than 'this person says they know freebsd as an administrator', leaving everything up to the end user. This is of course not too different than what exists currently under the Commercial Consultanting Services list, but it'd be specifically for individuals (and firms I suppose), as a searchable database oriented off of the admin location--specifically designed to aid people who _need_ FreeBSD support and email/news/etc is not sufficient (or they dont want to do the work themselves). While I could easilly run and spin this off on my own server, I do not see much of a reason to do that, as it would work best as a part of the central site. -Brandon Gillespie (btw, please CC me to any replies, as I am not on -chat). --yrj/dFKFPuw6o+aM Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use MessageID: cNEBCOkUU3otFE0tCooe1QY8vPpOOxHe iQA/AwUBNslMlUv5XoQiMgn6EQIfiQCg66ru3YeDqyrenvMpbxvR5a7Z6CMAoLlh yTydapZgwmPTxTELB0IbEfCx =hm3B -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --yrj/dFKFPuw6o+aM-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 7: 0:39 1999 Received: from jason04.u.washington.edu (jason04.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA27263 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 07:00:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul9.u.washington.edu (root@saul9.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.7]) by jason04.u.washington.edu (8.9.2+UW99.01/8.9.2+UW99.01) with ESMTP id HAA10840; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 07:00:33 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul9.u.washington.edu (8.9.2+UW99.01/8.9.2+UW99.01) with ESMTP id HAA01053; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 07:00:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 06:59:51 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: Brandon Gillespie cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD administrator/consultant db on web... In-Reply-To: <19990216034647.A13474@ice.cold.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Brandon Gillespie wrote: >While I could easilly run and spin this off on my own server, I do not >see much of a reason to do that, as it would work best as a part of >the central site. > >-Brandon Gillespie You should get in touch with freebsdrocks.org and perhaps UGU. UGU is unix centric. freebsdrocks is obviously more FreeBSD specific. UGU already maintains info for unix consultants. freebsdrocks is interested in job seekers but that site is fledgling. I am sure they would love to here from you. Catchya Later, | Give me UNIX or give me a typewriter. Jason Wells | http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 8:45:19 1999 Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA07785 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:45:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id JAA22683; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:45:15 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990216094216.040c0f00@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:45:11 -0700 To: crh@outpost.co.nz, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Newsflash: The Media Are Stupid In-Reply-To: <199902160547.SAA22820@fep2-orange.clear.net.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >BTW Brett - while you were lamenting the evils of Linux, the >FreeBSDers who actually attended Windows Refund Day and handed out >FreeBSD stuff probably achieved far more for FreeBSD advocacy. I actually attended an event in another city, though it rather fizzled. And you know darn well that I don't think Linux itself is evil; it's the GPL, and the rabid zealots who attempt to exclude all alternatives (and, yes, they DID successfully exclude users of commercial OSes pretty much entirely in the Bay Area) which do great harm. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 8:47: 6 1999 Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles326.castles.com [208.214.167.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA08105 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:47:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA17833; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:34:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199902161634.IAA17833@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Brett Glass cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day Press Reports: Linux, Linux, Linux In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:11:16 MST." <4.1.19990215205736.03f18100@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:34:39 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Unfortunately, the very thing I expected to happen DID happen: the > "Linux faithful" appear to have made sure that FreeBSD was not mentioned > in news coverage of the event. The following articles mentioned Linux > exclusively: I doubt it had much to do with the "Linux Faithful", so much as the total paucity of FreeBSD supporters turning out (that includes you, Brett, since you admit to wimping out yourself). > This is what I was concerned about. The FreeBSD supporters who attended were > taken for a ride. Microsoft contributed significantly to this with their labelling of the event as a "Linux" Event. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 8:49:48 1999 Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA08529 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:49:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id JAA22739; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:49:32 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990216094823.0410d990@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:49:24 -0700 To: Mike Smith From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day Press Reports: Linux, Linux, Linux Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199902161634.IAA17833@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:34 AM 2/16/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >I doubt it had much to do with the "Linux Faithful", so much as the >total paucity of FreeBSD supporters turning out (that includes you, >Brett, since you admit to wimping out yourself). No, I didn't "wimp out." I simply did not go to the Bay Area, because the event was run by a Linux group and was intended to exclude users of many alternative OSes. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 9: 0:26 1999 Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA10152 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:00:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA21665; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:58:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Mark Ovens cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Chuck GIF In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:51:18 GMT." <36C93185.AA11017E@uk.radan.com> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:58:57 -0800 Message-ID: <21662.919184337@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I love the GIF of Chuck delivering the goods at > http://www.freebsd.org/releases :-) There are more where that came from - look forward to a new series of images on T-shirts, CDs and whatnot. One of the 1st ones is already on the new 3.1 CD. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 9: 9: 8 1999 Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA10986 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:09:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id KAA22963; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:08:21 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990216100707.00bb9f00@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:08:18 -0700 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Mark Ovens From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Chuck GIF Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <21662.919184337@zippy.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:58 AM 2/16/99 -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> I love the GIF of Chuck delivering the goods at >> http://www.freebsd.org/releases :-) > >There are more where that came from - look forward to a new series of >images on T-shirts, CDs and whatnot. One of the 1st ones is already >on the new 3.1 CD. I want to know where I can get my copy of "FreeBSD 4.0." (I think I'll pass on "FreeBSD 2000;" Microsoft has jinxed THAT name.) --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 9:11:58 1999 Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA11270 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:11:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 16841 invoked from network); 16 Feb 1999 15:16:53 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 16 Feb 1999 15:16:53 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA01541; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:16:52 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902161516.KAA01541@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD at Windows Refund Day In-Reply-To: <199902160335.TAA14355@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Feb 15, 99 07:35:19 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:16:52 -0500 (EST) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, dyson@iquest.net, jgrosch@mooseriver.com, brett@lariat.org, jasone@canonware.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, grog@lemis.com, kline@tera.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mike Smith said: > > Too cold for me, but certainly worthwhile. Where were the rest of you > lazy bastards? > Indianapolis -- you think that I am a good advocate anyway? :-). In person I am very quiet, and careful what I say, and in email: flame-city :-). Also, I have been on a 3wk lightning project (helping my company with a 750K receivable.) :-). -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 9:12:10 1999 Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA11326 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:12:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA21761; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:11:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Brandon Gillespie cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD administrator/consultant db on web... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Feb 1999 03:46:47 MST." <19990216034647.A13474@ice.cold.org> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:11:53 -0800 Message-ID: <21758.919185113@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Regardless, the manager made the comment to me that 'you [FreeBSD] guys > are very hard to find' which made me consider things a little bit.=20 Did he try sending mail to freebsd-jobs first? As far as I know, this is the premium place for job-seekers to subscribe themselves and for job-providers to post their reqs. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 9:21: 5 1999 Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA12316 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:21:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id KAA23131; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:20:35 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990216101905.041142c0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:20:32 -0700 To: Mike Smith , Matthew Hunt From: Brett Glass Subject: ESR: Star Bore? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902160318.TAA14239@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:18 PM 2/15/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >Be that as it may, I'm glad we "lost" Eric Raymond. He made a complete >fool of himself today, as usual. A USA Today report claims that Eric Raymond attended the Bay Area event dressed as Obi-Wan Kenobi from Star Wars, and referred to himself repeatedly as a "Linux Theorist." He's clearly gone over to the Dark Side. ;-) --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 9:40:45 1999 Received: from wopr.caltech.edu (wopr.caltech.edu [131.215.240.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA14357 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:40:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mph@wopr.caltech.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by wopr.caltech.edu (8.9.2/8.9.1) id JAA18045; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:40:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mph) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:40:41 -0800 From: Matthew Hunt To: Brett Glass Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day Press Reports: Linux, Linux, Linux Message-ID: <19990216094041.A18012@wopr.caltech.edu> References: <199902160335.TAA14355@dingo.cdrom.com> <4.1.19990215205736.03f18100@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990215205736.03f18100@mail.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 09:11:16PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 09:11:16PM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > This one actually mentioned FreeBSD, but only as one of a laundry list of > operating systems: > > http://www.mercurycenter.com/svtech/news/breaking/reuters/docs/146260l.htm Today's Mercury Center story mentions Linux and FreeBSD on equal footing at the beginning of the story, and has a laundry-list later on. http://www.mercurycenter.com/svtech/news/indepth/docs/march021699.htm -- Matthew Hunt * Valtoo! http://www.pobox.com/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 9:48:38 1999 Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA15212 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:48:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Message-Id: <199902161749.MAA27981@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Received: from localhost (jamie@localhost) by marsellus.itribe.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA05464; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:48:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:48:25 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: Josef Grosch cc: announce@bafug.org, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BAFUG participation in Bay Area Microsoft Refund Day In-Reply-To: <19990214213046.A16632@mooseriver.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 14 Feb 1999, Josef Grosch wrote: > Open-source essayist Eric S. Raymond will be there. The band > "Severe Tire Damage" ("the first band on the Internet") is supposed > to be do a gig there, AND send it out over the MBONE. I have an issue with this. The band Everything (www.ecolon.com) has been doing MBONE broadcast concerts for at least 4 years now. I suggest someone ask STD if they are in fact the first on the net, before they get sued. Jamie Bowden -- If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 10: 2:47 1999 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA16477 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:02:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA45614; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:02:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199902161802.KAA45614@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Brandon Gillespie , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD administrator/consultant db on web... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:11:53 PST." <21758.919185113@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:02:09 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi Jordan, I think people want a job web page with a pointer from www.freesd.org. Best Regards, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 10: 4: 0 1999 Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA16598 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:03:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.98]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAAE45; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:03:52 +0100 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (daemon.ninth-circle.org [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA96505; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:13:10 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990216100707.00bb9f00@mail.lariat.org> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:13:10 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Chuck GIF Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Mark Ovens , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 16-Feb-99 Brett Glass wrote: > I want to know where I can get my copy of "FreeBSD 4.0." (I think I'll > pass on "FreeBSD 2000;" Microsoft has jinxed THAT name.) cvsup to CURRENT Brett =P --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven http://www.freebsdzine.org> asmodai(at)wxs.nl This is my Truth, tell me your's... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 10:10:19 1999 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA17166 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:10:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA45721 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:10:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199902161810.KAA45721@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: They Just Won't Do WINDOWS! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:10:04 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org San Jose Mercury Newspape's Front Page : The protesters back "open source" or "free software" operating systems, such as Linux, and FreeBSD , a version of Unix. Congrats to the FreeBSD folks who attended!!! Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 10:16:39 1999 Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA17735 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:16:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA22264; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:16:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Amancio Hasty cc: Brandon Gillespie , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD administrator/consultant db on web... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:02:09 PST." <199902161802.KAA45614@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:16:22 -0800 Message-ID: <22260.919188982@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well, if somebody wants to create and actively maintain a jobs page, I won't stand in their way. It would have to be actively maintained, however, since there's nothing more useless than a page full of stale job listings that have already been filled and resumes from people who went back to full-time employment long ago. If that happens, people will stop visiting the page and we'll have simply wasted our time. - Jordan > Hi Jordan, > > I think people want a job web page with a pointer from www.freesd.org. > > Best Regards, > Amancio > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 10:28:20 1999 Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA18866 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:28:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA22298; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:28:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Brett Glass cc: Mike Smith , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day Press Reports: Linux, Linux, Linux In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:49:24 MST." <4.1.19990216094823.0410d990@mail.lariat.org> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:28:04 -0800 Message-ID: <22294.919189684@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > No, I didn't "wimp out." I simply did not go to the Bay Area, because > the event was run by a Linux group and was intended to exclude users > of many alternative OSes. I wish people would stop looking at this so one-dimensionally. The function of these events is not JUST to stoke the press, though that's always nice, but to also meet some of your fellow geeks and plant the seed that maybe Linux isn't the only game in town and there are others who feel just as passionately about a different solution. In effect, somebody needs to evangelize to the evangelists and that appears to have happened here regardless of how the press chose to spin the event. Don't forget that most of these folks probably never even heard of Linux 2 or 3 years ago and it's not like their minds are completely closed to the idea of something else being free and wonderful - I've personally converted many dozens of Linux users over to FreeBSD, some of whom are now our loudest advocates. Even more importantly, expecting the press corps to grow brains and learn that there's more than one poster child to show off is just not realistic. Linux currently has the spotlight and the press is going to continue to focus the spotlight in one place, at least for awhile, because that's what the press does. They're not TRYING to present a balanced viewpoint here and rarely do, they're just trying to get some of that Linux buzz on themselves and show that they're "hip" too in covering it. I've had press people tell me directly that they know about FreeBSD but they have no desire to confuse their audience by focusing on more than one free OS since their audience is still trying to come to grips with the idea of any OS being free at all. I don't have to like this, but I also can't say I blame them. One sound bite, one poster child, one solid 15 minutes of fame at a time - that's how the game works. As an example, anyone here ever see People Magazine and their "sexiest man alive" cover feature they like to run on the news stands every few months? I remember it was Mel Gibson just a few months ago, as I stood there with my Ben and Jerry's slowly melting and waiting for check-out, and just the other day it was now Leonard DiCaprio. Mel Gibson is, as far as I know, still alive and well but evidently he's no longer sexy if we believe People Magazine, my point simply being that the press is NOT about balanced coverage and expecting it to be is, frankly, the height of stupidity. The press is about hype, and hype works best when it's concentrated. Given time, I expect that people both inside and outside the press will get tired of Linux since even the most aggressive press agent has a hard time getting it to stay focused on anything (just ask the artist formerly known as Prince) and it will be our 15 minutes on stage, assuming that we don't screw it up. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 10:29:21 1999 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA18961 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:29:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA45817; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:29:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199902161829.KAA45817@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Brandon Gillespie , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD administrator/consultant db on web... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:16:22 PST." <22260.919188982@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:29:04 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Okay, let me think about it . The problem that I see is that the "right" kind of people for the job may not necessarily want to share the info with other head hunters. Tnks! Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 10:45: 1 1999 Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA20024 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:44:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA03546; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:55:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd003474; Tue Feb 16 11:55:35 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA20541; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:44:25 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902161844.LAA20541@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD at Windows Refund Day To: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:44:25 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, tlambert@primenet.com, dyson@iquest.net, jgrosch@mooseriver.com, brett@lariat.org, jasone@canonware.com, grog@lemis.com, kline@tera.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <18974.919126972@zippy.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 15, 99 05:02:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Say whatever happen to the Daemon dolls . It would have been > > perfect for the demo --- something for microsoft in their spare > > time to squeeze 8) > > They're still somewhere in production. I don't know when they'll > arrive. I was thinking of gutting a "Furby" and turning it into a "BiSDy"... I'm waiting for the nxt generation, since they are supposed to have better mechanicals. I wonder if the Furby people (Tiger Electronics, LTD) would do a "BiSDy" production run for us... I'm sure that in 10 years or so, a "BiSDy" from a limited production run of a custom "Furby" would be worth a hell of a lot of money. If you get Tiger to bite on this, put me down for 10 of them or $600 worth of the things, whichever gets me the larger number (MSRP is $30 for a standard "Furby"). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 11:12:34 1999 Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA22189 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:12:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA15961; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:23:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd015877; Tue Feb 16 12:23:28 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA22370; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:12:17 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902161912.MAA22370@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day Press Reports: Linux, Linux, Linux To: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:12:14 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990215205736.03f18100@mail.lariat.org> from "Brett Glass" at Feb 15, 99 09:11:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Unfortunately, the very thing I expected to happen DID happen: the > "Linux faithful" appear to have made sure that FreeBSD was not mentioned > in news coverage of the event. The following articles mentioned Linux > exclusively: [ ... ] > In short, the FreeBSD users who joined the group were represented to the > press by the organizers as being Linux enthusiasts. > > This is what I was concerned about. The FreeBSD supporters who attended were > taken for a ride. Not true everywhere... here's one where Linux and BSD are both mentioned exactly once (though Linux is first and NetWare was next, before a generic BSD): http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2191274,00.html Here's another one that mentions Linux first, then FreeBSD: http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2209072,00.html If you don't read down very far, then it's equal billing. If you do read dow, including Microsoft's mention, it's only 6 to 1 (and Microsoft is mentioned 2 to 1 over Linux). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 11:27:23 1999 Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA23621 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:27:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef@kithrup.com) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA19106; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:27:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:27:17 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199902161927.LAA19106@kithrup.com> To: chat@freebsd.org Reply-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day Press Reports: Linux, Linux, Linux In-Reply-To: <22294.919189684.kithrup.freebsd.chat@zippy.cdrom.com> References: Your message of "Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:49:24 MST." <4.1.19990216094823.0410d990@mail.lariat.org> Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In article <22294.919189684.kithrup.freebsd.chat@zippy.cdrom.com> you write: >I wish people would stop looking at this so one-dimensionally. The >function of these events is not JUST to stoke the press, though that's >always nice, but to also meet some of your fellow geeks and plant the >seed that maybe Linux isn't the only game in town and there are others >who feel just as passionately about a different solution. Indeed. In today's San Jose Mercuery News article about the event, the phrase was "Linux and FreeBSD, a Unix like operating system." In the article, and in the caption for a photograph. Jordan used to say this; I don't know if he still believes it: Linux is not "the enemy," Microsoft is "the enemy," and every user who moves from Windows to Linux is a win for us, because it gets them going in the right direction. (Okay, that's paraphrased, my memory is good but not good enough to quote him directly.) Whatever Brett says, do the opposite. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 11:35:57 1999 Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA24480 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:35:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA26596; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:46:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd026513; Tue Feb 16 12:46:38 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA23974; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:35:20 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902161935.MAA23974@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: We should all read this To: jcwells@u.washington.edu Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:35:18 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jason C. Wells" at Feb 15, 99 09:17:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > http://www.oreilly.com/ask_tim/ > > Good talk about how PR can be done. OK, for a short article. I suggest the following books: Crossing the Chasm : Marketing and Selling High-Tech Products to Mainstream Customers -- Geoffrey A. Moore Harperbusiness ISBN: 0887307175 Inside the Tornado : Marketing Strategies from Silicon Valley's Cutting Edge -- Geoffrey A. Moore Harperbusiness ISBN: 0887307655 Successful Marketing Strategy for High Tech Firms (Artech House Professional Development and Technology Management Library) -- Eric Viardot Artech House ISBN: 0890067708 Marketing High Technology : An Insider's View -- William H. Davidow Free Press ISBN: 002907990X The Macintosh Way -- Guy Kawasaki Addison-Wesley Pub Co ISBN: 0673461750 Selling the Dream : How to Promote Your Product, Company, or Ideas-And Make a Difference-Using Everyday Evangelism -- Guy Kawasaki Harperbusiness ISBN: 0887306004 How to Drive Your Competition Crazy : Creating Disruption for Fun and Profit -- Guy Kawasaki Hyperion (Adult Trd Pap) ISBN: 0786881631 Rules for Revolutionaries : The Capitalist Manifesto for Creating New Products and Services -- Guy Kawasaki, Michele Moreno, Gary Kawasaki Harperbusiness ISBN: 0887309968 Radical Marketing : From Harvard to Harley, Lessons From Ten That Broke the Rules and Made It Big -- Glenn Rifkin Harperbusiness ISBN: 0887309054 Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 11:44: 9 1999 Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA25255 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:44:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02173; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:43:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19990216114340.A2160@mooseriver.com> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:43:40 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Amancio Hasty Cc: Brandon Gillespie , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD administrator/consultant db on web... Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com References: <199902161802.KAA45614@rah.star-gate.com> <22260.919188982@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <22260.919188982@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 10:16:22AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 10:16:22AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Well, if somebody wants to create and actively maintain a jobs page, I > won't stand in their way. It would have to be actively maintained, > however, since there's nothing more useless than a page full of stale > job listings that have already been filled and resumes from people who > went back to full-time employment long ago. If that happens, people > will stop visiting the page and we'll have simply wasted our time. On my list of things to do is to create a FreeBSD jobs page for BAFUG. Not only is stale job listings useless so are jobs hundres of miles away. Jobs are local and job listing should also be. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 11:46:54 1999 Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA25715 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:46:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08833; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:46:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd008779; Tue Feb 16 12:46:34 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA24787; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:46:23 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902161946.MAA24787@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD administrator/consultant db on web... To: jcwells@u.washington.edu Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:46:23 +0000 (GMT) Cc: brandon@roguetrader.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jason C. Wells" at Feb 16, 99 06:59:51 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > You should get in touch with freebsdrocks.org and perhaps UGU. UGU is unix can't find freebsdrocks.org: Non-existent host/domain Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 11:52:23 1999 Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA26125 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:52:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA09147; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:50:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:50:58 -0700 (MST) From: Brett Taylor To: Terry Lambert cc: jcwells@u.washington.edu, brandon@roguetrader.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD administrator/consultant db on web... In-Reply-To: <199902161946.MAA24787@usr02.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, Terry wrote: > can't find freebsdrocks.org: Non-existent host/domain www.freebsdrocks.com Brett ****************************************************************** Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu http://peloton.physics.montana.edu/brett/ "Bart, a woman is like a beer. They look good, they smell good, and you'd step over your own mother just to get one!" Homer Simpson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 11:52:39 1999 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA26168 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:52:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA46281; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:52:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199902161952.LAA46281@rah.star-gate.com> To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Amancio Hasty , Brandon Gillespie , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD administrator/consultant db on web... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:43:40 PST." <19990216114340.A2160@mooseriver.com> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:52:17 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I think that we want a global job listing . For intance , I may want a job in a beautiful lushious carribean island (gosh, I am actually drolling ). The single biggest point of contention is to find someone or an organization willing to support the page. Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 11:52:43 1999 Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA26167 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:52:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA03895; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:03:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd003644; Tue Feb 16 13:02:54 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA25480; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:51:13 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902161951.MAA25480@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: ESR: Star Bore? To: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:51:07 +0000 (GMT) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, mph@pobox.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990216101905.041142c0@mail.lariat.org> from "Brett Glass" at Feb 16, 99 10:20:32 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >Be that as it may, I'm glad we "lost" Eric Raymond. He made a complete > >fool of himself today, as usual. > > A USA Today report claims that Eric Raymond attended the Bay Area > event dressed as Obi-Wan Kenobi from Star Wars, and referred to > himself repeatedly as a "Linux Theorist." Too bad. I went around mentioning to reporters that he was supposed to be "Yoda". Do they sell "Bill Gates" masks anywhere? It would be intersting, while in a full "Darth Vader" costume, to take off the helmet to reveal a Bill Gates mask. That picture would end up everywhere, no matter at what press event you did it. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 12: 4:35 1999 Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA27243 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:04:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA09233; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:15:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd009054; Tue Feb 16 13:15:27 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA26568; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:04:04 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902162004.NAA26568@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day Press Reports: Linux, Linux, Linux To: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:04:03 +0000 (GMT) Cc: brett@lariat.org, mike@smith.net.au, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <22294.919189684@zippy.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 16, 99 10:28:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I wish people would stop looking at this so one-dimensionally. The > function of these events is not JUST to stoke the press, though that's > always nice, but to also meet some of your fellow geeks and plant the > seed that maybe Linux isn't the only game in town and there are others > who feel just as passionately about a different solution. There were a *lot* of Linux people getting FreeBSD CDROM's out there, I have to admit. 8-). I was also disappointed that there wasn't a FreeBSD "Press Handler" there (that would be *you*, Jordan; I'm not nearly as good at "speechifyin'"). > Given time, I expect that people both inside and outside the press > will get tired of Linux since even the most aggressive press agent has > a hard time getting it to stay focused on anything (just ask the > artist formerly known as Prince) and it will be our 15 minutes on > stage, assuming that we don't screw it up. An excellent point. FreeBSD should be putting together a well rehearsed and very polished performance for when the clock rolls around to FreeBSD's 15 minutes so that they are used to best advantage. I think that Linux is, in a lot of ways, squandering large amounts of their stage time. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 12: 6:17 1999 Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA27443 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:06:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA10338; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:06:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd010077; Tue Feb 16 13:05:56 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA26657; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:05:13 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902162005.NAA26657@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD administrator/consultant db on web... To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:04:57 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jgrosch@mooseriver.com, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, brandon@roguetrader.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902161952.LAA46281@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Feb 16, 99 11:52:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I think that we want a global job listing . For intance , I may > want a job in a beautiful lushious carribean island (gosh, > I am actually drolling ). I don't think that was very droll... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 12:21:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 752F2117C7 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:21:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA46515; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:21:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199902162021.MAA46515@rah.star-gate.com> To: Terry Lambert Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty), jgrosch@mooseriver.com, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, brandon@roguetrader.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD administrator/consultant db on web... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:04:57 GMT." <199902162005.NAA26657@usr02.primenet.com> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:21:08 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Okay, you convince me that at least I should go away for a vacation to one of those beautiful islands 8) Tnks! Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 12:26:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cheddar.netmonger.net (cheddar.netmonger.net [209.54.21.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B9F4117C3 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:26:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@cheddar.netmonger.net) Received: (from chris@localhost) by cheddar.netmonger.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA23196; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:26:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990216152611.A22929@netmonger.net> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:26:12 -0500 From: Christopher Masto To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD represented at Refund Day NYC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Here's an article mentioning yours truly: http://www.zdnet.com/sr/stories/news/0,4538,2209391,00.html Here's a picture: http://www.masto.com/album/showpic.cgi?picid=365 -- Christopher Masto Director of Operations NetMonger Communications chris@netmonger.net info@netmonger.net http://www.netmonger.net "Good tools allow users to do stupid things." -- Clay Shirky To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 12:30:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC05E117F3 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:30:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA23002; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:27:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Terry Lambert Cc: brett@lariat.org, mike@smith.net.au, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day Press Reports: Linux, Linux, Linux In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:04:03 GMT." <199902162004.NAA26568@usr02.primenet.com> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:27:59 -0800 Message-ID: <22998.919196879@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I was also disappointed that there wasn't a FreeBSD "Press Handler" > there (that would be *you*, Jordan; I'm not nearly as good at > "speechifyin'"). I think it's going to require additional speachfiers to really cover these events adequately. In my case, I was working away at home all day on the damn 3.1 release while the rest of you were off having fun taunting Microsoft. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 12:34: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from jason04.u.washington.edu (jason04.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B76B117C3 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:33:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul9.u.washington.edu (root@saul9.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.7]) by jason04.u.washington.edu (8.9.2+UW99.01/8.9.2+UW99.01) with ESMTP id MAA18198; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:33:57 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul9.u.washington.edu (8.9.2+UW99.01/8.9.2+UW99.01) with ESMTP id MAA23075; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:33:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:33:17 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: Brett Taylor Cc: Terry Lambert , jcwells@u.washington.edu, brandon@roguetrader.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD administrator/consultant db on web... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Brett Taylor wrote: >> can't find freebsdrocks.org: Non-existent host/domain > >www.freebsdrocks.com That is what I meant. Catchya Later, | Give me UNIX or give me a typewriter. Jason Wells | http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 12:49:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E44A10E8F for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:48:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA23101; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:48:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Christopher Masto Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD represented at Refund Day NYC In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:26:12 EST." <19990216152611.A22929@netmonger.net> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:48:24 -0800 Message-ID: <23097.919198104@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Here's an article mentioning yours truly: > > http://www.zdnet.com/sr/stories/news/0,4538,2209391,00.html Well done! Good coverage all around, and this particular event doesn't sound like quite so much the circus the Foster City event was (which, to be honest, makes the Linux attendees look just a bit immature when you read the various press accounts - I'm almost rather glad that FreeBSD didn't get tarred with the same brush at that event). - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 13: 2:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2711410EBA for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:02:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA25506; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:02:29 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990216140029.04047300@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:02:22 -0700 To: CHAT@freebsd.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: ZDTV report on Windows Refund Day Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Want to see ZDTV's coverage of the event? Go *right now* to http://play.rbn.com/?zd/zdtv/live/zdtv-20.rm To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 13: 2:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1401210EBA for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:02:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA25503; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:02:28 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990216135549.040447a0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:57:45 -0700 To: Matthew Hunt From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day Press Reports: Linux, Linux, Linux Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990216094041.A18012@wopr.caltech.edu> References: <4.1.19990215205736.03f18100@mail.lariat.org> <199902160335.TAA14355@dingo.cdrom.com> <4.1.19990215205736.03f18100@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 09:40 AM 2/16/99 -0800, Matthew Hunt wrote: >Today's Mercury Center story mentions Linux and FreeBSD on equal >footing at the beginning of the story, and has a laundry-list later >on. > >http://www.mercurycenter.com/svtech/news/indepth/docs/march021699.htm Just saw that. As far as I can tell, it's the ONLY one that mentions FreeBSD other than the one I pointed out yesterday. It's good that someone did. Ironically, even Microsoft passed it off the the press as a Linux event. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 13: 9:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE77010F21 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:09:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA25594; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:09:53 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990216140812.0402ea20@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:09:42 -0700 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day Press Reports: Linux, Linux, Linux In-Reply-To: <199902161927.LAA19106@kithrup.com> References: <22294.919189684.kithrup.freebsd.chat@zippy.cdrom.com> <4.1.19990216094823.0410d990@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:27 AM 2/16/99 -0800, Sean Eric Fagan wrote: >Whatever Brett says, do the opposite. In that case, Sean, keep flaming me. ;-) --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 13:11:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 384B310F36 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:11:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA25591; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:09:52 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990216140605.0402d940@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:06:51 -0700 To: Terry Lambert , jkh@zippy.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: FreeBSD at Windows Refund Day Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, tlambert@primenet.com, dyson@iquest.net, jgrosch@mooseriver.com, jasone@canonware.com, grog@lemis.com, kline@tera.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902161844.LAA20541@usr02.primenet.com> References: <18974.919126972@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 06:44 PM 2/16/99 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >If you get Tiger to bite on this, put me down for 10 of them or $600 >worth of the things, whichever gets me the larger number (MSRP is $30 >for a standard "Furby"). I'll buy a couple as well. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 14: 2:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2317D11094 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:02:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id PAA26218; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:02:46 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990216150210.040f2c00@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:02:42 -0700 To: chat@freebsd.org From: Brett Glass Subject: Walnut Creek, Where Are You? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to the article at http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,389494,00.html IBM is announcing that it will work with not one but SEVERAL distributors of Linux, pre-installing their distributions on PCs. But NOT A WORD about FreeBSD! Hello, Walnut Creek.... Can you say, "missed opportunity" here? The announcement will come at LinuxWorld at the end of the month; there may still be time to do something. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 14:27:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from remus.clara.net (remus.clara.net [195.8.69.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A29F310F98 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:26:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ackerj@easynet.co.uk) Received: from ackerj.clara.net (du-026-0249.claranet.co.uk [195.8.89.249]) by remus.clara.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA02961; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:22:05 GMT (envelope-from ackerj@easynet.co.uk) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19950216221704.007d6180@mail.easynet.co.uk> X-Sender: ackerj@mail.easynet.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 22:17:04 +0000 To: Brett Glass , chat@freebsd.org From: Jon Acker Subject: Re: Walnut Creek, Where Are You? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990216150210.040f2c00@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 15:02 16/02/99 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: >According to the article at > >http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,389494,00.html > >IBM is announcing that it will work with not one but SEVERAL distributors >of Linux, pre-installing their distributions on PCs. But NOT A WORD about >FreeBSD! Hello, Walnut Creek.... Can you say, "missed opportunity" here? >The announcement will come at LinuxWorld at the end of the month; there may >still be time to do something. > >--Brett Glass Could someone out there pleae create a freebsd-crusaders mailing list? * Jonathan Acker * 0181 374-1012 * ackerj@easynet.co.uk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 14:32:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E11110FED for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:31:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id PAA26549; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:31:05 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990216152836.0402da30@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:31:00 -0700 To: Jon Acker , chat@freebsd.org From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Walnut Creek, Where Are You? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19950216221704.007d6180@mail.easynet.co.uk> References: <4.1.19990216150210.040f2c00@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:17 PM 2/16/95 +0000, Jon Acker wrote: >Could someone out there pleae create a freebsd-crusaders mailing list? It's pretty clear that you'd like to label anyone who doesn't want to see the only viable competition for Linux go down the tubes a "crusader." Perhaps you should sit at home in a chastity belt and wait for the "crusaders" to return. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 16:30:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14A9310F73 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:30:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA03473; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:29:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19990216162945.A3449@mooseriver.com> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:29:45 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: Terry Lambert , Brett Glass Cc: mike@smith.net.au, mph@pobox.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ESR: Star Bore? Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com References: <4.1.19990216101905.041142c0@mail.lariat.org> <199902161951.MAA25480@usr02.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199902161951.MAA25480@usr02.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 07:51:07PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 07:51:07PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > >Be that as it may, I'm glad we "lost" Eric Raymond. He made a complete > > >fool of himself today, as usual. > > > > A USA Today report claims that Eric Raymond attended the Bay Area > > event dressed as Obi-Wan Kenobi from Star Wars, and referred to > > himself repeatedly as a "Linux Theorist." > > Too bad. I went around mentioning to reporters that he was supposed > to be "Yoda". > > Do they sell "Bill Gates" masks anywhere? It would be intersting, > while in a full "Darth Vader" costume, to take off the helmet to > reveal a Bill Gates mask. That picture would end up everywhere, > no matter at what press event you did it. 8-). A great Holloween costume! -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 16:40: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A0C510F02 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:39:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA12083; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:09:47 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id LAA09716; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:09:45 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19990217110944.T515@lemis.com> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:09:44 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com, "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Amancio Hasty Cc: Brandon Gillespie , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD administrator/consultant db on web... References: <199902161802.KAA45614@rah.star-gate.com> <22260.919188982@zippy.cdrom.com> <19990216114340.A2160@mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19990216114340.A2160@mooseriver.com>; from Josef Grosch on Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 11:43:40AM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, 16 February 1999 at 11:43:40 -0800, Josef Grosch wrote: > On Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 10:16:22AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> Well, if somebody wants to create and actively maintain a jobs page, I >> won't stand in their way. It would have to be actively maintained, >> however, since there's nothing more useless than a page full of stale >> job listings that have already been filled and resumes from people who >> went back to full-time employment long ago. If that happens, people >> will stop visiting the page and we'll have simply wasted our time. > > On my list of things to do is to create a FreeBSD jobs page for BAFUG. Not > only is stale job listings useless so are jobs hundres of miles away. Jobs > are local and job listing should also be. I disagree. First, a lot of the work I do is in North America. Secondly, some areas are so underpopulated that they would have to find somebody elsewhere. Where do they look if there are 30 different sites? I think the correct way to do this would be to start with a single world-wide page and subdivide when it gets too big. It's obviously a good idea to sort it geographically. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 17:21:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACD75110E9 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:20:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: (from fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id TAA23429; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:19:55 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19990216191955.C596@futuresouth.com> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:19:55 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Brandon Gillespie , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD administrator/consultant db on web... References: <19990216034647.A13474@ice.cold.org> <21758.919185113@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <21758.919185113@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 09:11:53AM -0800 X-OS: FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 09:11:53AM -0800, a little birdie told me that Jordan K. Hubbard remarked > > Regardless, the manager made the comment to me that 'you [FreeBSD] guys > > are very hard to find' which made me consider things a little bit.=20 > > Did he try sending mail to freebsd-jobs first? As far as I know, this > is the premium place for job-seekers to subscribe themselves and for > job-providers to post their reqs. Then that is indeed a frightening and depressing thought. I have 9 messages in my freebsd-jobs folder. Nov 10, Nov 10, Nov 26, Dec 01, Dec 10, Jan 05, Jan 07, Jan 07, Jan 14. Some premium place... --- *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | Matthew Fuller http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd | * fullermd@futuresouth.com fullermd@over-yonder.net * | UNIX Systems Administrator Specializing in FreeBSD | * FutureSouth Communications ISPHelp ISP Consulting * | "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, | * is because I haven't figured out how to light the * | middle yet" | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 19:18: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14F7010E05 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:18:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA11471; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:16:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:16:57 -0700 (MST) From: Brett Taylor To: Brett Glass Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Walnut Creek, Where Are You? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990216150210.040f2c00@mail.lariat.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > According to the article at > > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,389494,00.html IBM is > announcing that it will work with not one but SEVERAL distributors of > Linux, pre-installing their distributions on PCs. But NOT A WORD about > FreeBSD! Hello, Walnut Creek.... Can you say, "missed opportunity" > here? And it doesn't say so in this article, but I've read elsewhere that they're doing this on PowerPC based servers. Not a lot we can do if we don't have a PowerPC port. Brett ****************************************************************** Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu http://peloton.physics.montana.edu/brett/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 19:38:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2690910EEC for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:38:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02517; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:32:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199902170332.TAA02517@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Brett Glass Cc: Mike Smith , Matthew Hunt , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ESR: Star Bore? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:20:32 MST." <4.1.19990216101905.041142c0@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:32:31 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > At 07:18 PM 2/15/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > >Be that as it may, I'm glad we "lost" Eric Raymond. He made a complete > >fool of himself today, as usual. > > A USA Today report claims that Eric Raymond attended the Bay Area > event dressed as Obi-Wan Kenobi from Star Wars, and referred to > himself repeatedly as a "Linux Theorist." 1) He looked more like Yoda, and watching him pulling FreeBSD stickers off his "costume" was pretty funny. 2) "Theorist"? Sure, he certainly doesn't do anything _practical_. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 19:54:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71E4911516 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:54:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02606; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:48:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199902170348.TAA02606@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Terry Lambert Cc: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), brett@lariat.org, mike@smith.net.au, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day Press Reports: Linux, Linux, Linux In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:04:03 GMT." <199902162004.NAA26568@usr02.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:48:03 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I was also disappointed that there wasn't a FreeBSD "Press Handler" > there (that would be *you*, Jordan; I'm not nearly as good at > "speechifyin'"). I was the best we had, and a bit new at the game. I thought I did a reasonable job - Josef already had the SJ Mercury people (and maybe others) sorted out beforehand, and I spent a lot of time mugging people with notebooks while he and Greg were making sure the CDs went around. > FreeBSD should be putting together a well rehearsed and very polished > performance for when the clock rolls around to FreeBSD's 15 minutes > so that they are used to best advantage. I think that Linux is, in > a lot of ways, squandering large amounts of their stage time. Ack. "Bus shelter". 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 20: 4:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C6421158B for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:03:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02705; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:58:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199902170358.TAA02705@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Brett Glass Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Walnut Creek, Where Are You? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:02:42 MST." <4.1.19990216150210.040f2c00@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:58:45 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > According to the article at > > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,389494,00.html > > IBM is announcing that it will work with not one but SEVERAL distributors > of Linux, pre-installing their distributions on PCs. But NOT A WORD about > FreeBSD! Hello, Walnut Creek.... Can you say, "missed opportunity" here? > The announcement will come at LinuxWorld at the end of the month; there may > still be time to do something. Brett: a) Fuck Off. b) I have been working on this since mid-late last year. See a). c) Give us more money, or see a) again. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 20:32:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F5B111001 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:32:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA04409; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:31:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19990216203145.A4268@mooseriver.com> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:31:45 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: Greg Lehey , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Amancio Hasty Cc: Brandon Gillespie , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD administrator/consultant db on web... Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com References: <199902161802.KAA45614@rah.star-gate.com> <22260.919188982@zippy.cdrom.com> <19990216114340.A2160@mooseriver.com> <19990217110944.T515@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19990217110944.T515@lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 11:09:44AM +1030 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 11:09:44AM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Tuesday, 16 February 1999 at 11:43:40 -0800, Josef Grosch wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 10:16:22AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >> Well, if somebody wants to create and actively maintain a jobs page, I > >> won't stand in their way. It would have to be actively maintained, > >> however, since there's nothing more useless than a page full of stale > >> job listings that have already been filled and resumes from people who > >> went back to full-time employment long ago. If that happens, people > >> will stop visiting the page and we'll have simply wasted our time. > > > > On my list of things to do is to create a FreeBSD jobs page for BAFUG. Not > > only is stale job listings useless so are jobs hundres of miles away. Jobs > > are local and job listing should also be. > > I disagree. First, a lot of the work I do is in North America. > Secondly, some areas are so underpopulated that they would have to > find somebody elsewhere. Where do they look if there are 30 different > sites? > > I think the correct way to do this would be to start with a single > world-wide page and subdivide when it gets too big. It's obviously a > good idea to sort it geographically. Sorry, I guess I did not express my idea with any clarity. I rarely hear of jobs in Chicago or Perth but I do hear of jobs in the Bay Area and in LA. Yes, there should be a central point of reference but people in the various geographic areas should run their own page. If there is one central page instead of a page of links that would means either one person will be getting a lot of job postings to add to the page or many people have read/write privileges on this web site. Neither situation is optimal. A page of links to geographicly maintained pages seems a good compromise. My $0.002 Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 21:15:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48BE110F3D for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:15:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id WAA00608; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:15:03 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990216221335.04024590@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:15:00 -0700 To: Mike Smith From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: ESR: Star Bore? Cc: Mike Smith , Matthew Hunt , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902170332.TAA02517@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:32 PM 2/16/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >1) He looked more like Yoda, and watching him pulling FreeBSD stickers > off his "costume" was pretty funny. Funny that would be. ;-) Seriously -- he declined to wear them? >2) "Theorist"? Sure, he certainly doesn't do anything _practical_. Except write rambling, poorly structured papers about cathedrals and bazaars. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 21:19: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B30DE1123B for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:19:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id WAA00667; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:18:54 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990216221552.04027680@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:18:51 -0700 To: Mike Smith From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Walnut Creek, Where Are You? Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199902170358.TAA02705@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:58 PM 2/16/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > a) Fuck Off. This does not seem like it would be a particularly productive activity. > b) I have been working on this since mid-late last year. See a). And what has IBM said? Apparently, they are approaching SEVERAL Linux vendors, including small ones. But there's not a peep about FreeBSD. > c) Give us more money, or see a) again. For what would more money be used? --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 21:51:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AF3510EB1 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:51:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA05167; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:51:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19990216215131.A5145@mooseriver.com> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:51:31 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: Terry Lambert , jcwells@u.washington.edu Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We should all read this Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com References: <199902161935.MAA23974@usr02.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199902161935.MAA23974@usr02.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 07:35:18PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 07:35:18PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > http://www.oreilly.com/ask_tim/ > > > > Good talk about how PR can be done. > > OK, for a short article. > > I suggest the following books: > > Crossing the Chasm : Marketing and Selling High-Tech Products > to Mainstream Customers -- Geoffrey A. Moore > Harperbusiness > ISBN: 0887307175 > > Inside the Tornado : Marketing Strategies from Silicon > Valley's Cutting Edge -- Geoffrey A. Moore > Harperbusiness > ISBN: 0887307655 > > Successful Marketing Strategy for High Tech Firms (Artech > House Professional Development and Technology Management > Library) -- Eric Viardot > Artech House > ISBN: 0890067708 > > Marketing High Technology : An Insider's View -- William H. > Davidow > Free Press > ISBN: 002907990X > > The Macintosh Way -- Guy Kawasaki > Addison-Wesley Pub Co > ISBN: 0673461750 > > Selling the Dream : How to Promote Your Product, Company, > or Ideas-And Make a Difference-Using Everyday Evangelism > -- Guy Kawasaki > Harperbusiness > ISBN: 0887306004 > > How to Drive Your Competition Crazy : Creating Disruption > for Fun and Profit -- Guy Kawasaki > Hyperion (Adult Trd Pap) > ISBN: 0786881631 > > Rules for Revolutionaries : The Capitalist Manifesto for > Creating New Products and Services -- Guy Kawasaki, Michele > Moreno, Gary Kawasaki > Harperbusiness > ISBN: 0887309968 > > Radical Marketing : From Harvard to Harley, Lessons From Ten > That Broke the Rules and Made It Big -- Glenn Rifkin > Harperbusiness > ISBN: 0887309054 Second the recommendation for anything Guy Kawasaki has written. He used to be the product manager for the Mac at Apple. I have heard him speak in Chicago and he was interviewed by Terry Gross of the radio program "Fresh Air" He is a very intelligent person who has spent a lot of time successfully pushing an excellent product with very poor upper management backup. He is not shy about sharing his ideas. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 21:59:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smarter.than.nu (lal-99-91.Reshall.Berkeley.EDU [169.229.99.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79DBC10EE2 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:59:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smarter.than.nu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA00724 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:59:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:59:11 -0800 (PST) From: "Brian W. Buchanan" X-Sender: brian@smarter.than.nu To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: freebsd-admin 0.3 released, major bug fix Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org freebsd-admin 0.3 has been released. This fixes a major bug that snuck into 0.2 which will cause /etc/master.passwd and /etc/group to get truncated to 0 bytes (Ouch!). Thanks to Mark Ovens for reporting this bug after it bit him (Good thing we have /var/backups/, eh? :) -- Brian Buchanan brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU -------------------------------------------------------------------------- FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! http://www.freebsd.org daemon(n): 1. an attendant power or spirit : GENIUS 2. the cute little mascot of the FreeBSD operating system To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 22: 3:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smarter.than.nu (lal-99-91.Reshall.Berkeley.EDU [169.229.99.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 104E610E0B for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:03:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smarter.than.nu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA00759 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:03:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:03:27 -0800 (PST) From: "Brian W. Buchanan" X-Sender: brian@smarter.than.nu To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: freebsd-admin 0.3, contd. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Oops. Forgot to mention that you can get it at, as usual: http://www.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU/~brian/freebsd-admin/ -- Brian Buchanan brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU -------------------------------------------------------------------------- FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! http://www.freebsd.org daemon(n): 1. an attendant power or spirit : GENIUS 2. the cute little mascot of the FreeBSD operating system To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 22: 4:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (phoenix.welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6266710EAE for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:04:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id RAA25192; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:04:16 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19990217170410.02407@welearn.com.au> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:04:10 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: "Brian W. Buchanan" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd-admin 0.3 released, major bug fix References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Brian W. Buchanan on Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 09:59:11PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 09:59:11PM -0800, Brian W. Buchanan wrote: > freebsd-admin 0.3 has been released. Where? -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 22: 5:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (phoenix.welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A56110EAE for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:05:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id RAA25207; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:05:03 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19990217170458.59328@welearn.com.au> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:04:58 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: "Brian W. Buchanan" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd-admin 0.3, contd. References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Brian W. Buchanan on Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 10:03:27PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 10:03:27PM -0800, Brian W. Buchanan wrote: > Oops. Forgot to mention that you can get it at, as usual: > > http://www.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU/~brian/freebsd-admin/ Oh, there :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 22:15: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (phoenix.welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 358B210EAE for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:14:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id RAA25249; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:14:43 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19990217171438.36311@welearn.com.au> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:14:39 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Mark Ovens , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Chuck GIF References: <36C93185.AA11017E@uk.radan.com> <21662.919184337@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <21662.919184337@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 08:58:57AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 08:58:57AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I love the GIF of Chuck delivering the goods at > > http://www.freebsd.org/releases :-) > > There are more where that came from - look forward to a new series of > images on T-shirts, CDs and whatnot. One of the 1st ones is already > on the new 3.1 CD. Where can I place an advance order for a daemon on a whatnot? -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 16 23:46:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C52910F36 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:46:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bkogawa@primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA28341; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:46:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from ip194.sjc.primenet.com(206.165.96.194), claiming to be "foo.primenet.com" via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd028307; Wed Feb 17 00:46:25 1999 Received: (from bkogawa@localhost) by foo.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.6) id XAA10730; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:49:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:49:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902170749.XAA10730@foo.primenet.com> To: mph@pobox.com Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day Press Reports: Linux, Linux, Linux Newsgroups: localhost.freebsd.chat References: <199902160335.TAA14355@dingo.cdrom.com> <4.1.19990215205736.03f18100@mail.lariat.org> <19990216094041.A18012@wopr.caltech.edu> From: "Bryan K. Ogawa" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Brett Glass X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In localhost.freebsd.chat you write: >On Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 09:11:16PM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: >> This one actually mentioned FreeBSD, but only as one of a laundry list of >> operating systems: >> >> http://www.mercurycenter.com/svtech/news/breaking/reuters/docs/146260l.htm >Today's Mercury Center story mentions Linux and FreeBSD on equal >footing at the beginning of the story, and has a laundry-list later >on. >http://www.mercurycenter.com/svtech/news/indepth/docs/march021699.htm For those not receiving hardcopy of the Mercury News, the article in question was on the front page of the Mercury News, and the first mention of FreeBSD made the page cutoff; thus, FreeBSD was indeed Front Page News. -- bryan k ogawa http://www.primenet.com/~bkogawa/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 1:51:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from www.giovannelli.it (kirk.giovannelli.it [194.184.65.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5F2810E74 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 01:51:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gmarco@giovannelli.it) Received: from suzy (modem39.masternet.it [194.184.65.49]) by www.giovannelli.it (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA22130 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:51:46 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <4.1.19990217095946.00928d20@194.184.65.4> X-Sender: gmarco@194.184.65.4 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:00:24 +0100 To: chat@freebsd.org From: Gianmarco Giovannelli Subject: Linux vs FreeBSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org First I want to say I don't want generate "holy wars" ... these are only personal opinion :-) I installed a Red Hat which is considered the flagship of the Linux distribution in an empty partition (and it get two , damn it because it doens't know that partitions can be sub-divided in slice for swap i.e.). After a little use , I don't succeded in understand why a person would prefer Linux instead FreeBSD, which in my opinion is far better. 1) FreeBSD is easier to install and it install in a more intuitive way. The Linux "innovative" graphical fdisk is, in my opinion, very obscure. 2) The packages selection of Red Hat is a pain. 3) The configuration of a Linux box is quite different from a FreeBSD one, but I think ours is far superior even if I can't judge this because I have the habit of configuring only FreeBSD boxes. I like very much the idea to have a single file full of "options" to customize the system. 4) I love the centralized way to stay in sync with cvsup. We have installed a cvsup server (cvsup.masternet.it or 194.184.65.3) which not only mantain in sync the ISP boxes, but also all the boxes I have installed here and there (friends, company, university...) . Thanks also to cvsup4.freebsd.org which I polled at every 24th minute :-) ... The only thing I have found I like in linux more than FreeBSD is the infos the /proc file system give back to users, info like cpuinfo, mem etc etc . Okay things that can be usefull only few times but I think they can be used by other programs like systeminfo and similar. Why not to extend our /proc file system ? I think if one can choose the distribution shares of the two OSes would be very different from the actual ones ... The problem is , especially in Italy, that on ten shops, only two, perhaps three have FreeBSD while everyones have Linux. And if they have Linux they have the last distributions, while of FreeBSD is easy they could have old version. If you, that don't know anything or have only vague ideas about UNIX world, arrive in a shop and want a UNIX like operating system you take what you find first. And it's a pity on 10 times 7 or 8 it is Linux. My local bookstore don't have any books on BSD while it is full of books on Linux. Some of them are in Italian, too. So it is a cat that eats it's tail (Jordan perhaps understand the picture... I see he is full of cats :-) More avaliability, more sells, more users, more interest and so on... Ok, let's finish to speak and go to populate the world with another FreeBSD box. :-) Thanks for your time and attention (if any :-). Best Regards, Gianmarco Giovannelli , "Unix expert since yesterday" http://www.giovannelli.it/~gmarco http://www2.masternet.it To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 2: 1: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4F4310E94 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 02:00:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA50971; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 02:00:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199902171000.CAA50971@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Gianmarco Giovannelli Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:00:24 +0100." <4.1.19990217095946.00928d20@194.184.65.4> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 02:00:23 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Same here I don't understand the linux popularity at all and I have installed red-hat 5.2 . The same box screams with FreeBSD + ide dma + softupdates -- with linux you know it is not so fast 8) Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 3:18:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7F8D10E9C for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 03:18:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA08758; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:16:40 +0200 (EET) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:16:40 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Brett Glass Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Mark Ovens , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Chuck GIF In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990216100707.00bb9f00@mail.lariat.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > At 08:58 AM 2/16/99 -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > >> I love the GIF of Chuck delivering the goods at > >> http://www.freebsd.org/releases :-) > > > >There are more where that came from - look forward to a new series of > >images on T-shirts, CDs and whatnot. One of the 1st ones is already > >on the new 3.1 CD. > > I want to know where I can get my copy of "FreeBSD 4.0." (I think I'll > pass on "FreeBSD 2000;" Microsoft has jinxed THAT name.) > That's easy - the FreeBSD 4.0, etc. is in the coming (note that the daemon is still driving, and not yet unloading). I am sure it will be replaced by a different image when FreeBSD 4.0 is there, where the daemon unloads the goods. 8-) > --Brett > Sander There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 3:31:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from midget.dons.net.au (daniel.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.137.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEAF510E74 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 03:30:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from darius@dons.net.au) Received: from guppy.dons.net.au (guppy.dons.net.au [203.31.81.9]) by midget.dons.net.au (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA01035; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:00:26 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from darius@dons.net.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199902171000.CAA50971@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:00:24 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel J. O'Connor" To: Amancio Hasty Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Gianmarco Giovannelli Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 17-Feb-99 Amancio Hasty wrote: > Same here I don't understand the linux popularity at all and I have > installed red-hat 5.2 . The same box screams with FreeBSD + ide dma + > softupdates -- with linux you know it is not so fast 8) Hype is an amazing thing :( --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 5:23:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDB9410EAD for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 05:23:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id OAA36592; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:23:51 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Brett Glass Cc: Mike Smith , Matthew Hunt , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ESR: Star Bore? References: <4.1.19990216101905.041142c0@mail.lariat.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 17 Feb 1999 14:23:51 +0100 In-Reply-To: Brett Glass's message of "Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:20:32 -0700" Message-ID: Lines: 13 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass writes: > At 07:18 PM 2/15/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > >Be that as it may, I'm glad we "lost" Eric Raymond. He made a complete > >fool of himself today, as usual. > A USA Today report claims that Eric Raymond attended the Bay Area > event dressed as Obi-Wan Kenobi from Star Wars, and referred to > himself repeatedly as a "Linux Theorist." His appearance in Userfriendly must have gone to his head... DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 5:28:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.monmouth.com (shell.monmouth.com [205.231.236.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96A0C10F61 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 05:28:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pechter@pechter.nws.net) Received: from pechter.nws.net (bg-tc-ppp749.monmouth.com [209.191.63.185]) by shell.monmouth.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA13471; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:28:16 -0500 (EST) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by pechter.nws.net (8.9.2/8.9.1) id IAA01348; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:28:19 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from pechter) From: Bill Pechter Message-Id: <199902171328.IAA01348@pechter.nws.net> Subject: IBM and Linux In-Reply-To: from Brett Taylor at "Feb 16, 1999 8:16:57 pm" To: brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu (Brett Taylor) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:28:17 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Reply-To: bpechter@shell.monmouth.com X-Phone-Number: 908-389-3592 X-OS-Type: FreeBSD 3.0-Stable X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Hi, > > On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > > > According to the article at > > > > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,389494,00.html IBM is > > announcing that it will work with not one but SEVERAL distributors of > > Linux, pre-installing their distributions on PCs. But NOT A WORD about > > FreeBSD! Hello, Walnut Creek.... Can you say, "missed opportunity" > > here? > > And it doesn't say so in this article, but I've read elsewhere that > they're doing this on PowerPC based servers. Not a lot we can do if we > don't have a PowerPC port. > > Brett > ****************************************************************** > Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu > http://peloton.physics.montana.edu/brett/ The word is Netfinity Servers (x86) as well as Power PC boxes. Probably going to fill the OS/2 Warp Power PC niche as well as add another OS to the Netfinity. When I worked at IBM I remember some server PC's which used to ship with CD's for WinNT, OS/2 Warp Server, Netware 3.x and 4.x and SCO and all you had to do was order an install license key from IBM to load them. The boxes designed for OS/2 for PowerPC became low end AIX boxes (IDE Drive etc.). The higher end ones with SCSI were very nice AIX boxes. Looks like a reasonable thought. Linux would fill out a nice low end position for IBM without being as much of a political problem as pushing OS/2 against Microsoft. Linux is used inside IBM as a popular hobby os -- since FreeBSD had no token ring support. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.nws.net|pechter@pechter.ddns.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 5:30:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.monmouth.com (shell.monmouth.com [205.231.236.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3870F10FC3 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 05:30:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pechter@pechter.nws.net) Received: from pechter.nws.net (bg-tc-ppp749.monmouth.com [209.191.63.185]) by shell.monmouth.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA14168; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:30:28 -0500 (EST) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by pechter.nws.net (8.9.2/8.9.1) id IAA01380; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:30:41 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from pechter) From: Bill Pechter Message-Id: <199902171330.IAA01380@pechter.nws.net> Subject: Re: ESR: Star Bore? In-Reply-To: from Dag-Erling Smorgrav at "Feb 17, 1999 2:23:51 pm" To: des@flood.ping.uio.no (Dag-Erling Smorgrav) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:30:41 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Reply-To: bpechter@shell.monmouth.com X-Phone-Number: 908-389-3592 X-OS-Type: FreeBSD 3.0-Stable X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Brett Glass writes: > > At 07:18 PM 2/15/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > >Be that as it may, I'm glad we "lost" Eric Raymond. He made a complete > > >fool of himself today, as usual. > > A USA Today report claims that Eric Raymond attended the Bay Area > > event dressed as Obi-Wan Kenobi from Star Wars, and referred to > > himself repeatedly as a "Linux Theorist." > > His appearance in Userfriendly must have gone to his head... > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no Not surprising. Bill (who amazingly has an Autographed ESR copy of Hacker's Dictionary -- ESR was selling 'em two years ago at the Trenton Computer Festival) --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.nws.net|pechter@pechter.ddns.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 6:25:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C38F1104D for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:24:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.68]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA4287; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:17:38 +0100 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (daemon.ninth-circle.org [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA98681; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:20:39 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199902170358.TAA02705@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:20:39 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Mike Smith Subject: Re: Walnut Creek, Where Are You? Cc: chat@freebsd.org, Brett Glass Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 17-Feb-99 Mike Smith wrote: > Brett: > > a) Fuck Off. > > b) I have been working on this since mid-late last year. See a). > > c) Give us more money, or see a) again. Mike, this leaves nothing to imagination ;) One thing to think about, imagine IBM using FreeBSD, the report said they would make their own (proprietary) version of it. Nice to have recognition with it, but it doesn't add anything to the Project as a whole with regard to software development/ideas. But then again, I might have missed some agreement... --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven http://www.freebsdzine.org> asmodai(at)wxs.nl This is my Truth, tell me your's... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 7:35:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86521110B2 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:35:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id IAA04532; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:35:04 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990217082603.04010a90@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:26:56 -0700 To: "Bryan K. Ogawa" , mph@pobox.com From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day Press Reports: Linux, Linux, Linux Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902170749.XAA10730@foo.primenet.com> References: <199902160335.TAA14355@dingo.cdrom.com> <4.1.19990215205736.03f18100@mail.lariat.org> <19990216094041.A18012@wopr.caltech.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:49 PM 2/16/99 -0800, Bryan K. Ogawa wrote: =>>http://www.mercurycenter.com/svtech/news/indepth/docs/march021699.htm > >For those not receiving hardcopy of the Mercury News, the article in >question was on the front page of the Mercury News, and the first >mention of FreeBSD made the page cutoff; thus, FreeBSD was indeed >Front Page News. It's great that the Merc came through! Thank Heaven. Other mentions of FreeBSD were rare. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 8:37:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75CAD11143 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:37:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id JAA05372; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:37:04 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990217093525.04073990@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:37:00 -0700 To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , Mike Smith From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Walnut Creek, Where Are You? Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: References: <199902170358.TAA02705@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:20 AM 2/17/99 +0100, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: >One thing to think about, imagine IBM using FreeBSD, the report said they >would make their own (proprietary) version of it. IBM is stingy with development resources. They'd probably take the "canned" version from Walnut Creek. I've run FreeBSD on their x86 servers, so I know they can. The only possible issue is lack of token ring support. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 9:40:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D878D11163 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:40:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27753; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:52:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd027703; Wed Feb 17 10:52:35 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA15480; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:40:07 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902171740.KAA15480@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Walnut Creek, Where Are You? To: brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu (Brett Taylor) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:40:06 +0000 (GMT) Cc: brett@lariat.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Brett Taylor" at Feb 16, 99 08:16:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,389494,00.html IBM is > > announcing that it will work with not one but SEVERAL distributors of > > Linux, pre-installing their distributions on PCs. But NOT A WORD about > > FreeBSD! Hello, Walnut Creek.... Can you say, "missed opportunity" > > here? > > And it doesn't say so in this article, but I've read elsewhere that > they're doing this on PowerPC based servers. Not a lot we can do if we > don't have a PowerPC port. Plenty of us would be happy to do the work, if IBM loaned the hardware for a port. I rather expect NetBSD runs on it already, but if not, it would probably be necessary to have access to some documentation, though IBM has always been very public with documentation (the IBM Technical Reference had a BIOS source listing). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 9:46:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 736DF10E66 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:46:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA16279; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:46:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd016168; Wed Feb 17 10:46:11 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA15904; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:45:56 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902171745.KAA15904@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Walnut Creek, Where Are You? To: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:45:55 +0000 (GMT) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990216221552.04027680@mail.lariat.org> from "Brett Glass" at Feb 16, 99 10:18:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > b) I have been working on this since mid-late last year. See a). > > And what has IBM said? Apparently, they are approaching SEVERAL > Linux vendors, including small ones. But there's not a peep > about FreeBSD. > > > c) Give us more money, or see a) again. > > For what would more money be used? The implication is that this is the mysterious "other platform" that Jordan keeps referring to, and that one of the things Mike was hired to do was "work on the port". I think you guys are talking about different things. I think that Mike is talking about the port, and Brett is talking about selling IBM on FreeBSD. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 10: 2: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD169110F4 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:02:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA23499; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:02:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd023420; Wed Feb 17 11:01:57 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA17056; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:01:49 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902171801.LAA17056@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD To: gmarco@giovannelli.it (Gianmarco Giovannelli) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:01:48 +0000 (GMT) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990217095946.00928d20@194.184.65.4> from "Gianmarco Giovannelli" at Feb 17, 99 11:00:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I think if one can choose the distribution shares of the two OSes would be > very different from the actual ones ... The problem is , especially in > Italy, that on ten shops, only two, perhaps three have FreeBSD while > everyones have Linux. And if they have Linux they have the last > distributions, while of FreeBSD is easy they could have old version. If > you, that don't know anything or have only vague ideas about UNIX world, > arrive in a shop and want a UNIX like operating system you take what you > find first. And it's a pity on 10 times 7 or 8 it is Linux. My local > bookstore don't have any books on BSD while it is full of books on Linux. > Some of them are in Italian, too. > So it is a cat that eats it's tail (Jordan perhaps understand the > picture... I see he is full of cats :-) > More avaliability, more sells, more users, more interest and so on... You should contact Jordan and see if he wants/needs an Italian branch office. Walnut Creek CDROM works with a Japanese company to produce a Japanese version of FreeBSD on CDROM in Japan that closely tracks the US releases. I'm sure he would be willing to talk about working a similar deal for Italy. Contact: Jordan Hubbard There has to be money in it for someone. If you are willing to front the translation work, you might be able to get translated copies of "The Complete FreeBSD" book; alternately, there are 5 or 6 Japanese FreeBSD books, at last count, which could also be translated. In either case, you would need to work out publication rights with the authors/publishers, depending on how rights are assigned. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 10:47: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FC9C11300 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:47:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA26232; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:46:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Sue Blake Cc: Mark Ovens , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Chuck GIF In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:14:39 +1100." <19990217171438.36311@welearn.com.au> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:46:38 -0800 Message-ID: <26228.919277198@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Where can I place an advance order for a daemon on a whatnot? "Select customers only" *wink*. :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 10:53:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30AF111427 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:53:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id TAA51940; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:53:07 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Brett Glass Cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Walnut Creek, Where Are You? References: <199902170358.TAA02705@dingo.cdrom.com> <4.1.19990217093525.04073990@mail.lariat.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 17 Feb 1999 19:53:06 +0100 In-Reply-To: Brett Glass's message of "Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:37:00 -0700" Message-ID: Lines: 9 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass writes: > I've run FreeBSD on their x86 servers, so I know they can. The only possible > issue is lack of token ring support. It is my understanding that this is being worked on. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 11:55:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EDA351112B for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:55:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 5607 invoked from network); 17 Feb 1999 19:54:55 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 17 Feb 1999 19:54:55 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA69989; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:54:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902171954.OAA69989@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD at Windows Refund Day In-Reply-To: <199902161844.LAA20541@usr02.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Feb 16, 99 06:44:25 pm" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:54:42 -0500 (EST) Cc: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, tlambert@primenet.com, dyson@iquest.net, jgrosch@mooseriver.com, brett@lariat.org, jasone@canonware.com, grog@lemis.com, kline@tera.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert said: > > > Say whatever happen to the Daemon dolls . It would have been > > > perfect for the demo --- something for microsoft in their spare > > > time to squeeze 8) > > > > They're still somewhere in production. I don't know when they'll > > arrive. > > I was thinking of gutting a "Furby" and turning it into a "BiSDy"... > I'm waiting for the nxt generation, since they are supposed to have > better mechanicals. > > I wonder if the Furby people (Tiger Electronics, LTD) would do a > "BiSDy" production run for us... I'm sure that in 10 years or so, > a "BiSDy" from a limited production run of a custom "Furby" would > be worth a hell of a lot of money. > > If you get Tiger to bite on this, put me down for 10 of them or $600 > worth of the things, whichever gets me the larger number (MSRP is $30 > for a standard "Furby"). > Put a little light sensor in it, so that if it sees a penguin, it goes yuck!!! :-). -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 12: 7: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E32D511620 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:06:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA25233; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:05:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:05:44 -0700 (MST) From: Brett Taylor To: Terry Lambert Cc: brett@lariat.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Walnut Creek, Where Are You? In-Reply-To: <199902171740.KAA15480@usr07.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Brett (Taylor) wrote: > > And it doesn't say so in this article, but I've read elsewhere that > > they're doing this on PowerPC based servers. Not a lot we can do if we > > don't have a PowerPC port. > > Plenty of us would be happy to do the work, if IBM loaned the hardware > for a port. I rather expect NetBSD runs on it already, but if not, it > would probably be necessary to have access to some documentation, > though IBM has always been very public with documentation (the IBM > Technical Reference had a BIOS source listing). I believe NetBSD has a port - it may be beta as I recall though - haven't bothered to check their page though. Brett ****************************************************************** Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu http://peloton.physics.montana.edu/brett/ "Bart, a woman is like a beer. They look good, they smell good, and you'd step over your own mother just to get one!" Homer Simpson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 12:23:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from orcrist.mediacity.com (orcrist.mediacity.com [208.138.36.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78B051135D for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:23:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@orcrist.mediacity.com) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by orcrist.mediacity.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA28775; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:22:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:22:58 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: Mike Smith Cc: Brett Glass , Matthew Hunt , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ESR: Star Bore? Message-ID: <19990217122258.A27702@orcrist.mediacity.com> References: <4.1.19990216101905.041142c0@mail.lariat.org> <199902170332.TAA02517@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <199902170332.TAA02517@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 07:32:31PM -0800 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 07:32:31PM -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > At 07:18 PM 2/15/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > >Be that as it may, I'm glad we "lost" Eric Raymond. He made a complete > > >fool of himself today, as usual. > > > > A USA Today report claims that Eric Raymond attended the Bay Area > > event dressed as Obi-Wan Kenobi from Star Wars, and referred to > > himself repeatedly as a "Linux Theorist." > > 1) He looked more like Yoda, and watching him pulling FreeBSD stickers > off his "costume" was pretty funny. Especially since he had one of the "Powered by FreeBSD" stickers on the collar of his robe while giving interviews. I'm not sure if it was in a position visible to the cameras though. Nice job, Mike. :) Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter "Very funny, Scotty. mailto:gsutter@pobox.com Now beam down my clothes." http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 12:33:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from news-ma.rhein-neckar.de (news-ma.rhein-neckar.de [193.197.90.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EB0F10EBE for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:33:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de) Received: from mips.rhein-neckar.de (uucp@localhost) by news-ma.rhein-neckar.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with bsmtp id VAA29803 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:33:42 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de) Received: by mips.rhein-neckar.de id m10DDML-000WybC (Debian Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #2); Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:14:13 +0100 (CET) From: naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de (Christian Weisgerber) Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD Date: 17 Feb 1999 21:14:09 +0100 Message-ID: <7af7uh$dnb$1@mips.rhein-neckar.de> References: <4.1.19990217095946.00928d20@194.184.65.4> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Gianmarco Giovannelli wrote: > First I want to say I don't want generate "holy wars" ... these are only > personal opinion :-) And I don't intend to be the penguin's advocate here, although the remainder of this article may look like it. > I installed a Red Hat which is considered the flagship of the Linux > distribution Depends on whom you ask. Personally, I'd consider Debian the "flagship". Opinions vary greatly, and as Maddog Hall (Linux advocate at DEC^H^H^HCompaq) points out: what do three Linux users who each favor a different distribution finally agree to install? FreeBSD. :-) Also you should be careful to distinguish the features or shortcomings of a particular distribution from that of Linux in general. Yes, I realize that this is not obvious if your experience is limited to a single distribution. > in an empty partition (and it get two , damn it because it > doens't know that partitions can be sub-divided in slice for swap i.e.). Linux uses the standard PC partition model. FreeBSD treats standard partitions as slices and creates its own partitions within. Different approach, and the FreeBSD one is certainly harder to understand. (How do {Net,Open}BSD/i386 handle this?) > 1) FreeBSD is easier to install and it install in a more intuitive way. I'd say both Red Hat and FreeBSD are equally easy/cumbersome to install. I find the Debian installation superior, but then installation is a one- time event, so I don't weigh it much when considering the overall quality of a distribution/operating system. Last time I installed FreeBSD it was *painfull*. Some ensuing flamage in de.comp.os.unix.bsd pointed out that the way I expected a beginner installation to be handled was actually available as "expert" or "custom" installation, whereas the "novice" installation I had chosen ran in a way I would only expect for people who had gone through the process before. Different minds, I guess. So far the easiest installations I have done/witnessed were Red Hat Linux and OpenBSD respectively on Sparc IPCs. The PC hardware zoo, brain-dead BIOS, and parallel installation of several operating systems is the stuff of nightmares. > The Linux "innovative" graphical fdisk is, in my opinion, very obscure. The Red Hat Disk Druid? The normal cfdisk is a twin of its FreeBSD counterpart. > 2) The packages selection of Red Hat is a pain. Didn't notice. I'm fairly certain you can choose a default set (or maybe among several default sets) of packages. > 3) The configuration of a Linux box is quite different from a FreeBSD one, > but I think ours is far superior even if I can't judge this because I have > the habit of configuring only FreeBSD boxes. Important point here: If you are used to working with FreeBSD (Linux), and then give Linux (FreeBSD) a quick try, you are not likely to compare both operating systems fairly. > I like very much the idea to have a single file full of "options" to > customize the system. I certainly don't have all the configuration of my BSD box in a single file. Conversely, SuSE Linux has an rc.conf-style central configuration file. Lots of differences there between the various Linux distributions. Recently a rather vocal Linux user in our unix user group mentioned that he now felt reasonably confident to venture beyond YaST (proprietary setup and system administration frontend provided with SuSE Linux). Somebody like this would be horrified if he had to deal from the start with raw configuration files like under FreeBSD. > 4) I love the centralized way to stay in sync with cvsup. You can set up cvsup for Linux, too. Are you referring to the concept of cvsuping the source and making the world? Yes, some people like this. Others would be horrified and much prefer to pull pre-compiled packages from the net. Different preferences. > If you, that don't know anything or have only vague ideas about UNIX > world, arrive in a shop and want a UNIX like operating system you take > what you find first. Actually, nowadays people have only vague ideas about Linux, arrive in a shop, and want the Linux operating system. Unix? Huh? Oh, it's Linux compatible? Linux has a lot of press, even in the idiot PC rags, and many users from the Wintel universe who pick up on it have no idea of the Unix universe at all. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de 100+ SF Book Reviews: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 13:43:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles340.castles.com [208.214.167.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE39F11147 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:43:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA00766; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:38:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199902172138.NAA00766@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Brett Glass Cc: Mike Smith , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Walnut Creek, Where Are You? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:18:51 MST." <4.1.19990216221552.04027680@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:38:33 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > At 07:58 PM 2/16/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > > a) Fuck Off. > > This does not seem like it would be a particularly > productive activity. It would prevent you impacting on other peoples' productivity. > > b) I have been working on this since mid-late last year. See a). > > And what has IBM said? Apparently, they are approaching SEVERAL > Linux vendors, including small ones. But there's not a peep > about FreeBSD. We can't run on anything other than their NetFinity systems at the moment, and we are still trying to complete limited qualification on them. We run OK on about half their range at the moment; the other half suffer from the "initialising fxp0 hangs" bug. > > c) Give us more money, or see a) again. > > For what would more money be used? Employing one or more developers to extend/fix our code to the point where we properly supported IBM's hardware, so that we could obtain qualification and thus move to the next stage. At the moment, we're listed as a partially supported but not qaulified software item in their database - I'm told that this means that if an IBM customer asks a NetFinity rep about us, he will be able to point them in our direction. To get to the point where IBM would even be *able* to ship FreeBSD, we need to run properly on their hardware. I've been trying to move the remaining issues for some time now. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 13:54:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06C1810FED for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:54:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA08832; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:54:04 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990217144340.040145d0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:49:42 -0700 To: naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de (Christian Weisgerber), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <7af7uh$dnb$1@mips.rhein-neckar.de> References: <4.1.19990217095946.00928d20@194.184.65.4> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 09:14 PM 2/17/99 +0100, Christian Weisgerber wrote: >> I installed a Red Hat which is considered the flagship of the Linux >> distribution > >Depends on whom you ask. Personally, I'd consider Debian the "flagship". Or maybe the "Death Star?" ;-) >> in an empty partition (and it get two , damn it because it >> doens't know that partitions can be sub-divided in slice for swap i.e.). > >Linux uses the standard PC partition model. FreeBSD treats standard >partitions as slices and creates its own partitions within. Different >approach, and the FreeBSD one is certainly harder to understand. (How do >{Net,Open}BSD/i386 handle this?) The FreeBSD approach is more like the "Extended DOS Partition" with "logical drives" within it. The good thing about this is that since IBM, in its wisdom, only provided for four partitions, you can have more OSes on the disk. >Actually, nowadays people have only vague ideas about Linux, arrive in a >shop, and want the Linux operating system. Unix? Huh? Oh, it's Linux >compatible? Linux has a lot of press, even in the idiot PC rags, and >many users from the Wintel universe who pick up on it have no idea of >the Unix universe at all. Sad but true. People don't want to learn history; they want appliances that can be used without thought or training. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 13:54:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F69611218 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:54:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA08835; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:54:05 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990217145000.04008890@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:53:59 -0700 To: Mike Smith From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Walnut Creek, Where Are You? Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199902172138.NAA00766@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:38 PM 2/17/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >We can't run on anything other than their NetFinity systems at the >moment, That's what they're proposing to put Linux on. >and we are still trying to complete limited qualification on >them. We run OK on about half their range at the moment; the other >half suffer from the "initialising fxp0 hangs" bug. Could this be due to probing, I wonder? IBM machines tend to have weird hardware that responds badly to probes. It could be that other drivers (which could be deactivated) are mucking up the hardware. This used to happen with OS/2. >> For what would more money be used? > >Employing one or more developers to extend/fix our code to the point >where we properly supported IBM's hardware, so that we could obtain >qualification and thus move to the next stage. Heck, if they sent me a machine to play with, I'd do that just for fun. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 14:50:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles340.castles.com [208.214.167.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1154110F61 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:50:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01220; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:44:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199902172244.OAA01220@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Terry Lambert Cc: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass), mike@smith.net.au, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Walnut Creek, Where Are You? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:45:55 GMT." <199902171745.KAA15904@usr07.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:44:24 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > b) I have been working on this since mid-late last year. See a). > > > > And what has IBM said? Apparently, they are approaching SEVERAL > > Linux vendors, including small ones. But there's not a peep > > about FreeBSD. > > > > > c) Give us more money, or see a) again. > > > > For what would more money be used? > > The implication is that this is the mysterious "other platform" that > Jordan keeps referring to, and that one of the things Mike was hired > to do was "work on the port". No. I have too much on my plate altogether already. > I think you guys are talking about different things. > > I think that Mike is talking about the port, and Brett is talking > about selling IBM on FreeBSD. No, I'm talking about making FreeBSD run on IBM's x86 systems first, so that we can then sell them on it. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 15:28:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles340.castles.com [208.214.167.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 620A1110DC for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:28:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01535; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:24:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199902172324.PAA01535@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Brett Glass Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Walnut Creek, Where Are You? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:53:59 MST." <4.1.19990217145000.04008890@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:24:02 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >and we are still trying to complete limited qualification on > >them. We run OK on about half their range at the moment; the other > >half suffer from the "initialising fxp0 hangs" bug. > > Could this be due to probing, I wonder? IBM machines tend to have > weird hardware that responds badly to probes. It could be that > other drivers (which could be deactivated) are mucking up the > hardware. This used to happen with OS/2. No. You wire the pins from the 82558 to the PCI bus, and that's it. > >> For what would more money be used? > > > >Employing one or more developers to extend/fix our code to the point > >where we properly supported IBM's hardware, so that we could obtain > >qualification and thus move to the next stage. > > Heck, if they sent me a machine to play with, I'd do that just for > fun. Would you commit to producing results? They offer pretty good leasing deals, and if you were willing to commit to something, we might be able to fund the lease. The other issue is the IBM ServeRAID controller, again for which there is a Linux driver but no FreeBSD driver; this would need to be written from scratch. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 18:51:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from kendra.ne.mediaone.net (kendra.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.94.182]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 833C7111ED for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:51:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from software@kew.com) Received: from sonata.hh.kew.com (root@sonata-dmz.hh.kew.com [192.168.205.1]) by kendra.ne.mediaone.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA12526 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:51:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from kew.com (minerva.hh.kew.com [192.168.203.144]) by sonata.hh.kew.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA17224 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:51:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36CB8034.8D45937@kew.com> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:51:32 -0500 From: Drew Derbyshire Organization: Kendra Electronic Wonderworks, Stoneham, MA 02180 (http://www.kew.com) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: some march, others DO. :-) [was Re: FreeBSD at Windows Refund Day] References: <199902160335.TAA14355@dingo.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mike Smith wrote: > > all in all a good way to spend a > > Monday. > > Too cold for me, but certainly worthwhile. Where were the rest of you > lazy bastards? Installing a FreeBSD 2.2.8 firewall on a friend's machine in Arlington, MA. And let me tell you, it was a bitch, too, for especially a project I normally can do asleep. The sort of day where the owner of the machine had bought the only 100Mb 3COM card that FreeBSD has never heard of ... -- Drew Derbyshire UUPC/extended e-mail: software@kew.com Telephone: 617-279-9812 "Your arm felt good wrapped around my shoulder And I -- I felt I like I belonged And I -- I felt I could be someone . . ." - Tracey Chapman To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 18:57: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27BFC1123C for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:57:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA23726; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:56:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd023572; Wed Feb 17 19:56:54 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA09211; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:56:28 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902180256.TAA09211@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD To: naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de (Christian Weisgerber) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:56:28 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <7af7uh$dnb$1@mips.rhein-neckar.de> from "Christian Weisgerber" at Feb 17, 99 09:14:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > in an empty partition (and it get two , damn it because it > > doens't know that partitions can be sub-divided in slice for swap i.e.). > > Linux uses the standard PC partition model. FreeBSD treats standard > partitions as slices and creates its own partitions within. Different > approach, and the FreeBSD one is certainly harder to understand. (How do > {Net,Open}BSD/i386 handle this?) The same way. The same way Ultrix, Solaris, SVR3 on an NCR tower, SVR4, and, basically, every UNIX and clone except Linux, Minix, and Coherent (from Marc Williams Company) handle it. Some replace the name "disklabel" with "VTOC" (Volume Table Of Contents), but basically it's the same way that most UNIX has been doing it forever. Anyone with a UNIX background would recognize it instantly. > You can set up cvsup for Linux, too. > > Are you referring to the concept of cvsuping the source and making the > world? Yes, some people like this. Others would be horrified and much > prefer to pull pre-compiled packages from the net. Different > preferences. If Linus (God forbid) was standing next to the non-publig server and was hit by a chunk of "blue ice" falling off a 747, Linux would have a hell of a hard time recovering to the point that foreward progress was actually possible, since the set of people who could regrate the distributions, with the correct modification histories, including the rationale for decisions that they may want to later reverse, is vanishingly small. FWIW, the same can be said of the Apache group and NetBSD. Probably OpenBSD as well. There's a big redundancy advantage in full copies of your source management archive being outside the radious of one tactical nuke. For example, if MS were ever really hurting over "Open Source", even with 10 "MS Nuke 2000"'s they couldn't get rid of FreeBSD (though, amusingly, they *could* wipe out Novell with one 8-)). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 19: 2: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FF451128A for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:01:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA10916; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:01:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd010887; Wed Feb 17 20:01:50 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA09685; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:01:49 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902180301.UAA09685@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Walnut Creek, Where Are You? To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:01:48 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, brett@lariat.org, mike@smith.net.au, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902172244.OAA01220@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Feb 17, 99 02:44:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > I think you guys are talking about different things. > > > > I think that Mike is talking about the port, and Brett is talking > > about selling IBM on FreeBSD. > > No, I'm talking about making FreeBSD run on IBM's x86 systems first, so > that we can then sell them on it. Ugh. Anybody have one of these problem machines they are willing to work with someone to get it fixed? Someone want to work with anybody with one of these machines to fix the problems? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 21:22: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F03FF10E65 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:22:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jackv@earthling.net) Received: from jackv (adsl-209-76-108-106.dsl.pacbell.net [209.76.108.106]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id VAA12828 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:22:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002001be5afe$960d4e40$6a6c4cd1@jackv.pacbell.net> Reply-To: "Jack Velte" From: "Jack Velte" Cc: Subject: IBM + RedHat Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:19:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org IBM, Red Hat Deal To Be Finalized (02/17/99, 8:13 p.m. ET) By Edward F. Moltzen, Computer Reseller News IBM will officially announce on Thursday an alliance with Red Hat Software that will optimize Red Hat's version of Linux to run on IBM hardware including Netfinities, Intellistations, and ThinkPads. The deal also calls for joint marketing of Official Red Hat Linux into the IBM reseller channel on those systems, according to a draft of Thursday's press release reviewed by Computer Reseller News. Sources close to the Armonk, N.Y.-based computer giant, said the move initially will focus on uniprocessor and dual-processor solutions. At the start of the agreement, IBM is not planning to preload Linux onto hardware developed by its Personal Systems Group, sources said. The deal with Red Hat is expected to be the first of IBM's key moves within the Linux arena. IBM is expected to unveil more of its Linux at the Linuxworld conference on March 1 in San Jose, Calif. Among the moves separate from the Red Hat IBM deal is preloading of the low-cost Linux operating system onto low-end RS/6000s. Executives at IBM and Red Hat could not be reached for comment. However, industry sources said that IBM has been intent on offering the same support for Linux that it does other operating systems from Windows NT to Novell NDS to OS/2. The Red Hat deal gives IBM the ability to ensure the version of Linux works well with its hardware. Netfinity servers and other boxes out of the IBM Personal Systems Group are shipped into the reseller channel with "open bays" to have operating systems preloaded by resellers and integrators. After development work is performed to tune Red Hat Linux for the IBM systems, IBM could offer standard support on solutions in the same manner as other platforms, industry sources said. However, as part of the deal, IBM will provide ThinkPads to Red Hat developers so that, eventually, the notebooks would run with Linux. Red Hat also will perform hardware-certification testing and provide dedicated customer training, according to the preliminary statement reviewed by CRN. In addition to Red Hat, IBM has been in talks with LinuxPPC, in Madison, Wis., and "several other" Linux independent software vendors about other agreements, said industry sources. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 21:36:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E22D113E2; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:36:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jackv@earthling.net) Received: from jackv (adsl-209-76-108-106.dsl.pacbell.net [209.76.108.106]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id VAA18701; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:36:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002701be5b00$8a411040$6a6c4cd1@jackv.pacbell.net> Reply-To: "Jack Velte" From: "Jack Velte" To: Cc: Subject: IBM to offer Linux with Netfinity computers - NYT Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:34:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org IBM to offer Linux with Netfinity computers New York Times NEW YORK -- In perhaps the most significant endorsement yet of the little operating system that could, IBM Corp. will announce Wednesday that beginning next month it will ship its Netfinity line of network server computers with the free operating system Linux pre-installed alongside Microsoft's Windows NT. Linux is a highly regarded flavor of Unix, a kind of operating system widely used in powerful business machines that serve as the hub of local computer networks and Web sites. But despite its power and stability, Linux has not gained wide acceptance because corporations have had nowhere to turn for support; it was designed and built by a loose international coalition of programmers who freely share its source code and collaborate on its development. Thus, there is no company that can be held responsible for the product. IBM will address that drawback by offering customers technical support for the software through an agreement with a Linux distributor, Red Hat Software. The move by IBM comes on the heels of decisions by several other computer manufacturers -- most notably Hewlett-Packard and Dell Computer -- to sell machines that run Linux, making it a viable competitor to other flavors of Unix and, most notably, to Windows NT. Although some system administrators and programmers within companies have embraced Linux because of its flexibility and propensity not to crash, the operating system has rarely been officially sanctioned by management because of its orphan status. ``This increases the credibility of Linux in organizations,'' said Stacey Quandt, an analyst with Giga Information Group in Cambridge, Mass. ``A lot of companies are running Linux on some server in a closet somewhere, but when IBM comes out and says they're supporting it, it creates a lot more credibility.'' IBM said customer demand had been growing for Linux, particularly among Internet service providers and companies that want to take advantage of its open source code to modify their systems for their own needs. ``If you go back to early PC days, what you typically saw was technically literate folks using PC's at home and moving them into businesses where it wasn't a top-down decision,'' said Phil Hester, chief technology officer of IBM's personal systems group. ``This has a lot of that same feel to it. We think we need to understand this marketplace and grow with it.'' Hester's division, which is based in Raleigh, N.C., just five miles from Red Hat's headquarters, has set up a laboratory to test Linux on the Netfinity servers, as well as on work stations and its Thinkpad line of laptops. In addition to Linux and Windows NT, the Netfinity servers will continue to be shipped with IBM's OS/2 operating system. The deal positions Red Hat, which also supplies Linux to Hewlett-Packard, as the leading commercial distributor of the operating system, although IBM left open the possibility that it would also contract with one of Red Hat's competitors, like Caldera Inc. or SuSe. Linux, which can be had free on the Internet, has spawned a cottage industry of distributors that combine its various pieces on a CD-ROM with basic technical information. Red Hat, a five-year-old start-up that last year received an equity investment from the Intel Corp., aims to make money by selling technical assistance to Linux's growing customer base. Under the agreement with IBM, customers will have the option of buying Red Hat support directly or through IBM. The company's existing support contracts range from $1,000 a year for a single user to $60,000 a year for enterprises, depending on the number of computers linked to the server. Microsoft uses a different approach, pricing its support for the Windows NT Server by ``incident,'' meaning that when a customer has a problem, he gets Microsoft's help for a specified amount of money. Typically, this is about $195, with a volume discount for companies that prepay for 10 incidents. Windows NT itself range in price from about $250 for a single computer to about $55 per computer when licensed for 25 or more computers. ``Intel's endorsement of Red Hat meant Linux was OK to use,'' said Robert C. Young, Red Hat's chief executive. But anyone who bought it still took on the liability for buying hardware not supported for Linux. Now IBM is stepping up and taking responsibility for the hardware component.'' Still, analysts caution that the bigger hurdle for Linux is a lack of software that runs on it. ``Applications drive operating system sales,'' said Bill Petersen, research director for IDC Research. ``The fact that Linux is available on hardware gives chief information officers the ability to say, `Great, I can get Linux,' but their next question is, `What can I run on it?' The story only begins to get interesting when more organizations begin to make their applications available for it.'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 23: 1:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1842D10FCE for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:01:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id XAA13644; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:06:38 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990217225925.0401f9d0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:06:37 -0700 To: Mike Smith From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Walnut Creek, Where Are You? Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199902172324.PAA01535@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 03:24 PM 2/17/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >> Could this be due to probing, I wonder? IBM machines tend to have >> weird hardware that responds badly to probes. It could be that >> other drivers (which could be deactivated) are mucking up the >> hardware. This used to happen with OS/2. > >No. You wire the pins from the 82558 to the PCI bus, and that's it. It's true that with most highly-integrated peripheral controllers (including the 82558), it's hard to deviate much from the reference design. But what else is at the port addresses scanned by the various drivers (not just the fxp driver, but others)? It's possible that some arcane bit of motherboard hardware is being messed up -- perhaps by a driver that isn't even finding the peripheral it's looking for. IBM machines are like that. >> Heck, if they sent me a machine to play with, I'd do that just for >> fun. > >Would you commit to producing results? They offer pretty good leasing >deals, and if you were willing to commit to something, we might be able >to fund the lease. The other issue is the IBM ServeRAID controller, >again for which there is a Linux driver but no FreeBSD driver; this >would need to be written from scratch. I'd need to learn what was involved in writing a RAID driver, but if there's existing code that shows how RAID has been mapped into the SCSI subsystem I can certainly adapt it. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 23: 3:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles71.castles.com [208.214.165.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F64E11127 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:03:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA03463; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:09:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199902180609.WAA03463@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Brett Glass Cc: Mike Smith , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Walnut Creek, Where Are You? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:06:37 MST." <4.1.19990217225925.0401f9d0@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:09:49 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > At 03:24 PM 2/17/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > >> Could this be due to probing, I wonder? IBM machines tend to have > >> weird hardware that responds badly to probes. It could be that > >> other drivers (which could be deactivated) are mucking up the > >> hardware. This used to happen with OS/2. > > > >No. You wire the pins from the 82558 to the PCI bus, and that's it. > > It's true that with most highly-integrated peripheral controllers > (including the 82558), it's hard to deviate much from the reference > design. But what else is at the port addresses scanned by the various > drivers (not just the fxp driver, but others)? It's possible that > some arcane bit of motherboard hardware is being messed up -- perhaps > by a driver that isn't even finding the peripheral it's looking for. > IBM machines are like that. Brett, I take back everything I said about offering you hardware to write drivers with. If you're that far behind the ball with the way that PCI works, it wouldn't be even vaguely economical. Just accept that courtesy of the marvels of modern PnP architectures, what you are fretting about is effectively impossible. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 23: 7: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 503B910E69 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:07:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id AAA14194; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:06:49 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990217234718.0401de40@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:06:47 -0700 To: Mike Smith From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Walnut Creek, Where Are You? Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199902180609.WAA03463@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:09 PM 2/17/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >Brett, I take back everything I said about offering you hardware to >write drivers with. If you're that far behind the ball with the way >that PCI works, it wouldn't be even vaguely economical. It has nothing to do with PCI. A probe for something else ENTIRELY could be mucking things up. No, it's not "supposed" to happen, but it does. Take it from an EE who's designed chips and motherboards: a VGA driver or a sound card driver can mess up the works in subtle ways. Heck, you might even find that the machine never hangs when booted with, say, a serial console and no video card. >Just accept that courtesy of the marvels of modern PnP architectures, >what you are fretting about is effectively impossible. There's a reason why they call it "Plug 'n Pray." Scans for various sorts of legacy hardware *can* mess up a motherboard. And IBM's motherboards are sometimes weird. This is why one of the first things you should try -- if you haven't already -- is disabling nonessential, seemingly unrelated drivers in the kernel. If you're lucky, you'll find that removing one of them mysteriously makes the problem go away. If you're not, you'll have to check for other problems such as race conditions, etc. I'd have to observe the problem occurring, and perhaps single-step the machine through the problem code while looking at the spec sheet, to develop other ideas. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 23:15: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles71.castles.com [208.214.165.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE9C510E3B for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:14:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA03755; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:10:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199902180710.XAA03755@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Brett Glass Cc: Mike Smith , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Walnut Creek, Where Are You? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:06:47 MST." <4.1.19990217234718.0401de40@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:10:11 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > At 10:09 PM 2/17/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > > >Brett, I take back everything I said about offering you hardware to > >write drivers with. If you're that far behind the ball with the way > >that PCI works, it wouldn't be even vaguely economical. > > It has nothing to do with PCI. A probe for something else ENTIRELY > could be mucking things up. Uh, no. Or at least, if it did, the machine would not be on the market. What we do when it comes to probing is an order of magnitude less offensive than what Microsoft and Linux do. > This is why one of the first things you should try -- if you haven't > already -- is disabling nonessential, seemingly unrelated drivers in > the kernel. If you're lucky, you'll find that removing one of them > mysteriously makes the problem go away. If you're not, you'll have > to check for other problems such as race conditions, etc. I'd have > to observe the problem occurring, and perhaps single-step the > machine through the problem code while looking at the spec sheet, to > develop other ideas. Thanks for "hardware newbie 101" Brett, but no, I know what isn't happening, and what you're thinking of (port mirroring) has already been dismissed. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 17 23:42:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 539A911077 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:42:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id AAA14406; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:42:08 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990218002102.04017230@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:37:27 -0700 To: Mike Smith From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Walnut Creek, Where Are You? Cc: Mike Smith , chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199902180710.XAA03755@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:10 PM 2/17/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >> It has nothing to do with PCI. A probe for something else ENTIRELY >> could be mucking things up. > >Uh, no. Or at least, if it did, the machine would not be on the >market. What we do when it comes to probing is an order of magnitude >less offensive than what Microsoft and Linux do. Yep, but it could be just the wrong thing for that particular motherboard. I know, for example, that FreeBSD's usual boot sequence makes the Gateway Solo here in the lab -- a laptop with an internal PCI bus that's specified as entirely "Plug 'n Play" -- go utterly berserk. The laptop's on the market and works fine with Windows and Linux. There's just something in FreeBSD (I haven't bothered to figure out what) that causes it to go "Kaboom!" Probably a combination of quirky motherboard design and bad luck. >Thanks for "hardware newbie 101" Brett, but no, I know what isn't >happening, and what you're thinking of (port mirroring) has already been >dismissed. It could be much more subtle than that. I don't know the motherboard, so I don't know what it's doing with interrupts, DMA, onboard peripherals, etc. Your Ethernet controller could be starved for cycles; interrupts could be getting lost; the PHY could be weird or could die if there's no cable plugged in; who knows? Without hardware in front of me, I can only make educated guesses, but I do tend to make many MORE guesses than most people. And usually find the problem. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 0:50:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from orcrist.mediacity.com (orcrist.mediacity.com [208.138.36.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8FA111077 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:50:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@orcrist.mediacity.com) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by orcrist.mediacity.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA06382; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:49:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:49:10 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: Brett Glass Cc: "Bryan K. Ogawa" , mph@pobox.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day Press Reports: Linux, Linux, Linux Message-ID: <19990218004910.A5367@orcrist.mediacity.com> References: <199902160335.TAA14355@dingo.cdrom.com> <4.1.19990215205736.03f18100@mail.lariat.org> <19990216094041.A18012@wopr.caltech.edu> <199902170749.XAA10730@foo.primenet.com> <4.1.19990217082603.04010a90@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990217082603.04010a90@mail.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 08:26:56AM -0700 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 08:26:56AM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 11:49 PM 2/16/99 -0800, Bryan K. Ogawa wrote: > > >For those not receiving hardcopy of the Mercury News, the article in > >question was on the front page of the Mercury News, and the first > >mention of FreeBSD made the page cutoff; thus, FreeBSD was indeed > >Front Page News. > > It's great that the Merc came through! Thank Heaven. Other mentions > of FreeBSD were rare. Apparently, my interview with a CBS radio reporter was aired. I didn't hear it, but when I spoke it, it included several FreeBSD references. (If anyone happened to tape it, I'm interested in hearing what parts of it made the radio. Thanks!) Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter "Software is like sex; it's better mailto:gsutter@pobox.com when it's free." -- Linus Torvalds http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 3:48:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from otis.netspace.net.au (oldotis.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.190]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 750D810EB8 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:48:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from graeme@netspace.net.au) Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by otis.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id WAA15775 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:48:34 +1100 (EST) Received: from netspace.net.au (dialup-t1-497.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.251.243]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id WAA13777 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:50:56 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199902181150.WAA13777@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:47:04 +1100 (EST) From: gcross@netspace.net.au Reply-To: gcross@netspace.net.au Subject: Port upgrade check/report tool To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; BOUNDARY="0-846930886-919338431=:1184" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --0-846930886-919338431=:1184 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII I haven't found a tool that will look at the current ports index file, then look at the ports installed on my system and tell me which ports are now out-of-date and need upgrading. So, I have written a Python program that will do just that. It will work with either a local copy of a current ports INDEX file, or fetch one (via ftp or http) from a FreeBSD site. Out of sheer originality, I have named it portcheck, and you can read about it and download the tarball from: http://www.netspace.net.au/~gcross/portcheck.html I would appreciate comments, bug reports, etc, before I announce it to a wider audience. Thanks Graeme -- Graeme Cross gcross@netspace.net.au --0-846930886-919338431=:1184 Content-Type: APPLICATION/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNsv9uMlBq9Wvf+qtAQEIjgP/S0d8qM469TQXpbO/IhdrhaXQKTbTxEdB 6FQocNljgCulYTpQEqTfA6YLOq3irzONuY+Gmk9RqtoYzA6YhzBzqGszoX7tahaU sOpEQXfmTBN84iqD/uZyeViNnp7gGAJQe5a2RnSk0YrzRZ5fNH9g+bfiouv8H1vD jMv2puryccU= =e75p -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --0-846930886-919338431=:1184-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 5: 0:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 122F510FC4 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 05:00:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA20278; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:00:19 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id NAA75314; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:59:45 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:59:44 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Brett Glass , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Walnut Creek, Where Are You? Message-ID: <19990218135944.A75263@bitbox.follo.net> References: <199902170358.TAA02705@dingo.cdrom.com> <4.1.19990217093525.04073990@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Dag-Erling Smorgrav on Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 07:53:06PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 07:53:06PM +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Brett Glass writes: > > I've run FreeBSD on their x86 servers, so I know they can. The only possible > > issue is lack of token ring support. > > It is my understanding that this is being worked on. It is my understanding that this is available from http://anarchy.stdio.com/ and is under review by for inclusion in FreeBSD. Unfortunately, this has been my understanding for quite a long while. Big thanks to Larry Lile for putting in the work he has done on this! Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 5:53:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from scotty.masternet.it (scotty.masternet.it [194.184.65.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9708511050 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 05:53:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gmarco@scotty.masternet.it) Received: from suzy (modem20.masternet.it [194.184.65.30]) by scotty.masternet.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA25364; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:53:07 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from gmarco@scotty.masternet.it) Message-Id: <4.1.19990218150033.009713b0@194.184.65.4> X-Sender: gmarco@scotty.masternet.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:01:33 +0100 To: gcross@netspace.net.au From: Gianmarco Giovannelli Subject: Re: Port upgrade check/report tool Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199902181150.WAA13777@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 22.47 18/02/99 +1100, you wrote: >I haven't found a tool that will look at the current ports index file, >then look at the ports installed on my system and tell me which ports >are now out-of-date and need upgrading. > >So, I have written a Python program that will do just that. > I have this one... #!/bin/sh # # File: update-packages # # Checks for new packages in the supplied INDEX file to update your installation # # Usage: update-packages INDEX # record_update ( ) { to_be_installed=`sed -e "$1p" -n ${temp}.pkg_list` echo "${i}|${to_be_installed}" >>${temp}.work_list } # # Standard variables # progname=`basename $0` temp=/tmp/${progname}.$$ pkg_dir=/var/db/pkg # default=unknown for i in `ls ${pkg_dir}` do if [ -d ${pkg_dir}/${i} ] then name=`expr "${i}" : "\(.*\)-.*"` version=`expr "${i}" : ".*-\(.*\)"` desc=`grep "^${name}-" $1` if [ $? -eq 0 ] then count=0 echo "${desc}" | while read pkg_desc do pkg_name=`echo "${pkg_desc}" | cut -f 1 -d "|"` new_version=`expr "${pkg_name}" : "${name}-\(.*\)"` if expr ${new_version} \> ${version} >/dev/null then if [ ${count} -eq 0 ] then echo "" echo "Package name : ${name}" echo "Installed version : ${version}" echo -n "Available version(s): " else echo -n " " fi count=$((${count}+1)) echo "${count}) ${new_version}" echo ${count} >${temp}.count echo ${pkg_desc} >>${temp}.pkg_list fi done # # I loose the contents of "count" here, so recover from file # if [ -f ${temp}.count ] then count=`cat ${temp}.count` rm ${temp}.count fi if [ ${count} -ne 0 ] then case ${default} in unknown) if [ ${count} -gt 1 ] then read -p "Do you want to install any of these packages (1-${count}/No/All/nOne/Quit) ? " reply else read -p "Do you want to install this package (Yes/No/All/nOne/Quit) ? " reply if [ "$reply" = "y" -o "$reply" = "Y" ] then reply=1 fi fi reply=`echo ${reply} | tr "[:upper:]" "[:lower:]"` case ${reply} in q|quit) rm ${temp}.pkg_list exit 1 ;; ""|n|no) ;; a|all) record_update 1 default=all ;; o|none) rm ${temp}.pkg_list break ;; [0-9]*) if [ ${reply} -ge 1 -a ${reply} -le ${count} ] then record_update ${reply} fi ;; esac ;; all) record_update 1 ;; esac rm ${temp}.pkg_list fi else echo "" echo "${progname}: warning: ${name} not found in index file" fi fi done echo "Here we are..." cat ${temp}.work_list rm ${temp}.work_list Best Regards, Gianmarco Giovannelli , "Unix expert since yesterday" http://www.giovannelli.it/~gmarco http://www2.masternet.it To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 7:31:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.nwlink.com (smtp.nwlink.com [209.20.130.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 370C410EEF for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:31:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kkeysler@nwlink.com) Received: from nwlink.com (ip1.usr7.usw.du.nwlink.com [209.20.138.1]) by smtp.nwlink.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA12702 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:32:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36CC347A.F8A57D67@nwlink.com> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:40:42 -0800 From: ken keeler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: subscribe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org subscribe - E=mc^2 student: 1 each | Ken Keeler | "Look, it's all a bunch of ones and zeros." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 7:49:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C09D2114CB for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:49:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Message-Id: <199902181552.KAA15641@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Received: from localhost (jamie@localhost) by marsellus.itribe.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA03497; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:49:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:49:04 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: Christian Weisgerber Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <7af7uh$dnb$1@mips.rhein-neckar.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 17 Feb 1999, Christian Weisgerber wrote: > Gianmarco Giovannelli wrote: > > in an empty partition (and it get two , damn it because it > > doens't know that partitions can be sub-divided in slice for swap i.e.). > > Linux uses the standard PC partition model. FreeBSD treats standard > partitions as slices and creates its own partitions within. Different > approach, and the FreeBSD one is certainly harder to understand. (How do > {Net,Open}BSD/i386 handle this?) I'm curious why you make this claim? It's no more difficult to understand than the dos users concept of an extended partition with multiple logical drives defined within it. Jamie Bowden -- If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 8:28:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles225.castles.com [208.214.165.225]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55DEF116EC for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 08:27:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA06239; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 08:23:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199902181623.IAA06239@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: gcross@netspace.net.au Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Port upgrade check/report tool In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:47:04 +1100." <199902181150.WAA13777@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 08:23:11 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I haven't found a tool that will look at the current ports index file, > then look at the ports installed on my system and tell me which ports > are now out-of-date and need upgrading. > > So, I have written a Python program that will do just that. > > It will work with either a local copy of a current ports INDEX file, or > fetch one (via ftp or http) from a FreeBSD site. > > Out of sheer originality, I have named it portcheck, and you can read > about it and download the tarball from: > > http://www.netspace.net.au/~gcross/portcheck.html > > I would appreciate comments, bug reports, etc, before I announce it to > a wider audience. You could have added it into PIB... -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 8:31:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cheddar.netmonger.net (cheddar.netmonger.net [209.54.21.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C3F511708 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 08:31:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@cheddar.netmonger.net) Received: (from chris@localhost) by cheddar.netmonger.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA10557; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:31:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990218113151.A9451@netmonger.net> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:31:51 -0500 From: Christopher Masto To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Walnut Creek, Where Are You? References: <4.1.19990217234718.0401de40@mail.lariat.org> <199902180710.XAA03755@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199902180710.XAA03755@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 11:10:11PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Could you guys stop with the ego jockeying? It's embarrassing to watch. -- Christopher Masto Director of Operations NetMonger Communications chris@netmonger.net info@netmonger.net http://www.netmonger.net "Good tools allow users to do stupid things." -- Clay Shirky To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 9:20:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from toxic.magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [204.188.6.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3DEAA116FC for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:20:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unfurl@toxic.magnesium.net) Received: (qmail 41821 invoked by uid 1001); 18 Feb 1999 17:20:36 -0000 Date: 18 Feb 1999 09:20:36 -0800 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:20:36 -0800 From: Unfurl To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Port upgrade check/report tool Message-ID: <19990218092036.A41753@dub.net> References: <199902181150.WAA13777@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199902181150.WAA13777@whirlwind.netspace.net.au>; from gcross@netspace.net.au on Thu, Feb 18, 1999 at 10:47:04PM +1100 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Feb 18, 1999 at 10:47:04PM +1100, gcross@netspace.net.au wrote: > I haven't found a tool that will look at the current ports index file, > then look at the ports installed on my system and tell me which ports > are now out-of-date and need upgrading. > > So, I have written a Python program that will do just that. > > It will work with either a local copy of a current ports INDEX file, or > fetch one (via ftp or http) from a FreeBSD site. > > Out of sheer originality, I have named it portcheck, and you can read > about it and download the tarball from: > > http://www.netspace.net.au/~gcross/portcheck.html > > I would appreciate comments, bug reports, etc, before I announce it to > a wider audience. Why not just use cvsup? -Bill -- unfurl@dub.net - This is a munition. Fight Back! #!/bin/perl -sp0777i; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:49:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pechter@pechter.nws.net) Received: from pechter.nws.net (bg-tc-ppp783.monmouth.com [209.191.59.157]) by shell.monmouth.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA04041; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:49:12 -0500 (EST) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by pechter.nws.net (8.9.2/8.9.1) id NAA04456; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:49:26 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from pechter) From: Bill Pechter Message-Id: <199902181849.NAA04456@pechter.nws.net> Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199902181552.KAA15641@gatekeeper.itribe.net> from Jamie Bowden at "Feb 18, 1999 10:49: 4 am" To: jamie@itribe.net (Jamie Bowden) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:49:08 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Reply-To: bpechter@shell.monmouth.com X-Phone-Number: 908-389-3592 X-OS-Type: FreeBSD 3.0-Stable X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On 17 Feb 1999, Christian Weisgerber wrote: > > > Gianmarco Giovannelli wrote: > > > > in an empty partition (and it get two , damn it because it > > > doens't know that partitions can be sub-divided in slice for swap i.e.). > > > > Linux uses the standard PC partition model. FreeBSD treats standard > > partitions as slices and creates its own partitions within. Different > > approach, and the FreeBSD one is certainly harder to understand. (How do > > {Net,Open}BSD/i386 handle this?) > > I'm curious why you make this claim? It's no more difficult to understand > than the dos users concept of an extended partition with multiple logical > drives defined within it. > > Jamie Bowden The difficulty is that Linux can be installed and run completely out of EXTENDED Partitions (with no primary) and we can't (at least couldn't in 2.x or 1.x). DRAWBACK!!! This means if there's Win95 and WinNT and OS/2 and an extended partiton we CAN'T be installed, where Red Hat can. (Since there are bootloaders that can be used to boot from an extended partition.) This actually happened to me and forced me to reconfigure and and another disk. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.nws.net|pechter@pechter.ddns.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 10:56:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 941941189E for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:56:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.210.87]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990218185752.EAVE3226200.mta2-rme@wocker> for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:57:52 +1300 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:56:43 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Port upgrade check/report tool Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz In-reply-to: <19990218092036.A41753@dub.net> References: <199902181150.WAA13777@whirlwind.netspace.net.au>; from gcross@netspace.net.au on Thu, Feb 18, 1999 at 10:47:04PM +1100 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990218185752.EAVE3226200.mta2-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 18 Feb 99, at 9:20, Unfurl wrote: > On Thu, Feb 18, 1999 at 10:47:04PM +1100, gcross@netspace.net.au wrote: > > I haven't found a tool that will look at the current ports index file, > > then look at the ports installed on my system and tell me which ports > > are now out-of-date and need upgrading. > > > > So, I have written a Python program that will do just that. > > > > It will work with either a local copy of a current ports INDEX file, or > > fetch one (via ftp or http) from a FreeBSD site. > > > > Out of sheer originality, I have named it portcheck, and you can read > > about it and download the tarball from: > > > > http://www.netspace.net.au/~gcross/portcheck.html > > > > I would appreciate comments, bug reports, etc, before I announce it to > > a wider audience. > > Why not just use cvsup? Will cvsup tell you what needs to be updated without downloading them? I thought that's what the above will do. -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 11:48: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C564111A6 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:47:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id MAA19798; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:47:45 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990218124308.04033d90@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:47:41 -0700 To: bpechter@shell.monmouth.com, jamie@itribe.net (Jamie Bowden) From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902181849.NAA04456@pechter.nws.net> References: <199902181552.KAA15641@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:49 PM 2/18/99 -0500, Bill Pechter wrote: >The difficulty is that Linux can be installed and run completely >out of EXTENDED Partitions (with no primary) and we can't (at least >couldn't in 2.x or 1.x). > >DRAWBACK!!! Actually, with System Commander you can boot out of a "logical drive" in an extended partition. This may be another motivation for cleaning up the way logical drives inside extended partitions are numbered. I'm not a FreeBSD file system expert, and I think several of them would need to be modified to fix the numbering so that there was a way to say "the third logical drive in extended partition N." Right now, there really isn't due to the vagaries of the numbering scheme. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 11:50:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1893011419 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:50:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id MAA19826; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:50:43 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990218124803.04038100@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:50:39 -0700 To: Christopher Masto , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Walnut Creek, Where Are You? In-Reply-To: <19990218113151.A9451@netmonger.net> References: <199902180710.XAA03755@dingo.cdrom.com> <4.1.19990217234718.0401de40@mail.lariat.org> <199902180710.XAA03755@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org No "ego" here -- I don't have anything to prove, and if my offer of time and sweat really isn't welcome, I'll just go away. But that would be a shame.... FreeBSD really needs to become an option on those IBM machines. --Brett At 11:31 AM 2/18/99 -0500, Christopher Masto wrote: >Could you guys stop with the ego jockeying? It's embarrassing to watch. >-- >Christopher Masto Director of Operations NetMonger Communications >chris@netmonger.net info@netmonger.net http://www.netmonger.net > > "Good tools allow users to do stupid things." -- Clay Shirky > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 11:54:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BAD211A3C for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:54:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id MAA19850; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:53:15 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990218125208.04019eb0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:53:08 -0700 To: Gianmarco Giovannelli , gcross@netspace.net.au From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Port upgrade check/report tool Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990218150033.009713b0@194.184.65.4> References: <199902181150.WAA13777@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 03:01 PM 2/18/99 +0100, Gianmarco Giovannelli wrote: >At 22.47 18/02/99 +1100, you wrote: >>I haven't found a tool that will look at the current ports index file, >>then look at the ports installed on my system and tell me which ports >>are now out-of-date and need upgrading. >> >>So, I have written a Python program that will do just that. What do you do if the ports for that version have vanished? I have one 2.2.7 machine; when it looks for ports for 2.2.7, it says it can't find them anymore. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 12: 3:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDC2A11A6F for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:02:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25732; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:16:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd025574; Thu Feb 18 13:16:03 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA06456; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:01:18 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902182001.NAA06456@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Walnut Creek, Where Are You? To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:01:17 +0000 (GMT) Cc: brett@lariat.org, mike@smith.net.au, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902180609.WAA03463@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Feb 17, 99 10:09:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > It's true that with most highly-integrated peripheral controllers > > (including the 82558), it's hard to deviate much from the reference > > design. But what else is at the port addresses scanned by the various > > drivers (not just the fxp driver, but others)? It's possible that > > some arcane bit of motherboard hardware is being messed up -- perhaps > > by a driver that isn't even finding the peripheral it's looking for. > > IBM machines are like that. > > Brett, I take back everything I said about offering you hardware to > write drivers with. If you're that far behind the ball with the way > that PCI works, it wouldn't be even vaguely economical. > > Just accept that courtesy of the marvels of modern PnP architectures, > what you are fretting about is effectively impossible. Does this mean we can change the LANCE ISA probe order back? It seems to me that an ISA probe could be doing the deed. Alternately, hasn't the driver been updated since it was last snapshot? I remember seeing something fly past, but I have little interest in the fxp stuff, so I didn't save it. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 12: 7:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CD0D11986 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:07:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA27833; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:21:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd027625; Thu Feb 18 13:20:47 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA06716; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:06:25 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902182006.NAA06716@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Walnut Creek, Where Are You? To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:06:23 +0000 (GMT) Cc: brett@lariat.org, mike@smith.net.au, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902180710.XAA03755@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Feb 17, 99 11:10:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > >Brett, I take back everything I said about offering you hardware to > > >write drivers with. If you're that far behind the ball with the way > > >that PCI works, it wouldn't be even vaguely economical. > > > > It has nothing to do with PCI. A probe for something else ENTIRELY > > could be mucking things up. > > Uh, no. Or at least, if it did, the machine would not be on the > market. What we do when it comes to probing is an order of magnitude > less offensive than what Microsoft and Linux do. Heh. Microsoft probes to the point of you needing to reboot and logs the fact that the probe locked the system up, and says "I think I won't poke there next time". I have seen a number of IBM boxes that locked hard 4 times during a Windows 95 install. I liken the Linux probe stuff to the PAO stuff: do whatever you have to do to make it work. FreeBSD has similar areas, even if people don't like to point a flashlight at them very often (or look when someone else points one). The VFS integration is one. The Mach32/serial driver probe interaction is another. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 12:58:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shale.csir.co.za (shale.csir.co.za [146.64.46.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA4D111628 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:58:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reg@shale.csir.co.za) Received: (from reg@localhost) by shale.csir.co.za (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA14493 for chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:58:08 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from reg) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:58:08 +0200 From: Jeremy Lea To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: More important Windows Refund Day coverage... Message-ID: <19990218225807.C63286@shale.csir.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well FreeBSD might not have cracked the nod in the mainstream press, but this article mentions us a lot: http://www.segfault.org/story.phtml?mode=2&id=36ca97df-06acf840 Now Mike's already admitted to the stickers... *nudge*, *nudge*, *wink*, *wink*. :) Seems like a good time was had by all. -Jeremy -- | "Come home my prodigal son, come home and lets be one, --+-- don't want to see you cry, don't make me tell you why, | you've lived in a house with me, my blood has set you free, | in the world you'll surely die, nothing else will satisfy." -MIC To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 13: 6: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from scotty.masternet.it (scotty.masternet.it [194.184.65.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91F1A1176F for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:05:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gmarco@scotty.masternet.it) Received: from suzy (modem02.masternet.it [194.184.65.12]) by scotty.masternet.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA00592; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:04:56 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from gmarco@scotty.masternet.it) Message-Id: <4.1.19990218220906.00a4fc00@194.184.65.4> X-Sender: gmarco@scotty.masternet.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:09:32 +0100 To: Unfurl , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Gianmarco Giovannelli Subject: Re: Port upgrade check/report tool In-Reply-To: <19990218092036.A41753@dub.net> References: <199902181150.WAA13777@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> <199902181150.WAA13777@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Out of sheer originality, I have named it portcheck, and you can read >> about it and download the tarball from: >> >> http://www.netspace.net.au/~gcross/portcheck.html >> >> I would appreciate comments, bug reports, etc, before I announce it to >> a wider audience. > >Why not just use cvsup? How ? Best Regards, Gianmarco Giovannelli , "Unix expert since yesterday" http://www.giovannelli.it/~gmarco http://www2.masternet.it To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 13: 9:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from otis.netspace.net.au (oldotis.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.190]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F498119CB for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:09:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from graeme@netspace.net.au) Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by otis.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id IAA29559; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:09:08 +1100 (EST) Received: from netspace.net.au (dialup-t1-215.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.250.215]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id IAA13073; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:11:32 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199902182111.IAA13073@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:07:44 +1100 (EST) From: gcross@netspace.net.au Reply-To: gcross@netspace.net.au Subject: Re: Port upgrade check/report tool To: brett@lariat.org Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990218125208.04019eb0@mail.lariat.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 18 Feb, Brett Glass wrote: > At 03:01 PM 2/18/99 +0100, Gianmarco Giovannelli wrote: > >>At 22.47 18/02/99 +1100, you wrote: >>>I haven't found a tool that will look at the current ports index file, >>>then look at the ports installed on my system and tell me which ports >>>are now out-of-date and need upgrading. >>> >>>So, I have written a Python program that will do just that. > > What do you do if the ports for that version have vanished? I have > one 2.2.7 machine; when it looks for ports for 2.2.7, it says > it can't find them anymore. Brett, is this a problem with my script (eg. it is failing to find an INDEX file) or are you making a more general statement about the moving nature of available ports & packages for FreeBSD? Cheers Graeme -- Graeme Cross gcross@netspace.net.au To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 13:11:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from otis.netspace.net.au (oldotis.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.190]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCD1011844 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:11:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from graeme@netspace.net.au) Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by otis.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id IAA29684; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:11:08 +1100 (EST) Received: from netspace.net.au (dialup-t1-215.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.250.215]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id IAA14009; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:13:32 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199902182113.IAA14009@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:09:44 +1100 (EST) From: gcross@netspace.net.au Reply-To: gcross@netspace.net.au Subject: Re: Port upgrade check/report tool To: unfurl@dub.net Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <19990218092036.A41753@dub.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 18 Feb, Unfurl wrote: > On Thu, Feb 18, 1999 at 10:47:04PM +1100, gcross@netspace.net.au wrote: >> I haven't found a tool that will look at the current ports index file, >> then look at the ports installed on my system and tell me which ports >> are now out-of-date and need upgrading. >> >> So, I have written a Python program that will do just that. >> >> It will work with either a local copy of a current ports INDEX file, or >> fetch one (via ftp or http) from a FreeBSD site. >> > Why not just use cvsup? 1. AFAIK, cvsup only upgrades, it doesn't advise 2. Not everyone can or does use cvsup Cheers Graeme -- Graeme Cross gcross@netspace.net.au To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 13:39:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D28AD1196B for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:39:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA24760; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:39:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19990218133924.A24743@mooseriver.com> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:39:24 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: We get a mention in "The Economist" Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The Economist has noticed that Yahoo runs on FreeBSD. http://www.economist.com/editorial/freeforall/current/index_wb9834.html Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 14: 8:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from uswgne6.uswc.uswest.com (uswgne6.uswest.com [204.26.87.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19F0611BF4 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:08:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mmeola@ima2wk6.uswc.uswest.com) Received: from egate.mnet.uswest.com (mailgate.uswc.uswest.com [151.119.130.8]) by uswgne6.uswc.uswest.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA18443 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:09:26 -0600 (CST) Received: from ima2wk6.ima2 (ima2wk6.uswc.uswest.com [151.116.151.207]) by egate.mnet.uswest.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA08084 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:08:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from ima2wk6.uswc.uswest.com by ima2wk6.ima2 (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA09529; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:08:26 -0700 Message-Id: <199902182208.PAA09529@ima2wk6.ima2> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 From: Matt Meola To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Port upgrade check/report tool In-Reply-To: <19990218185752.EAVE3226200.mta2-rme@wocker> References: <19990218185752.EAVE3226200.mta2-rme@wocker> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:08:26 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On 18 Feb 99, at 9:20, Unfurl wrote: > > > On Thu, Feb 18, 1999 at 10:47:04PM +1100, gcross@netspace.net.au wrote: > > > I haven't found a tool that will look at the current ports index file, > > > then look at the ports installed on my system and tell me which ports > > > are now out-of-date and need upgrading. > > > > > > So, I have written a Python program that will do just that. > > > > > > It will work with either a local copy of a current ports INDEX file, or > > > fetch one (via ftp or http) from a FreeBSD site. > > > > > > Out of sheer originality, I have named it portcheck, and you can read > > > about it and download the tarball from: > > > > > > http://www.netspace.net.au/~gcross/portcheck.html > > > > > > I would appreciate comments, bug reports, etc, before I announce it to > > > a wider audience. > > > > Why not just use cvsup? > > Will cvsup tell you what needs to be updated without downloading them? I > thought that's what the above will do. Nope, cvsup just updates the source. Well, it seems that we've been going in parallel paths; I've written a Python script to do essentially the same thing, 'cept that it will go ahead and build/install the necessary ports as well. The only thing is, making a port will install over an older version, yet the pkg stuff for the old version remains in /var/db/pkg/. So, is it proper to do a "make deinstall" before the "make all install"? -- Matt Meola (matt.meola@usa.net) KC0DXW Bailey, Colorado "Gun control means using two hands." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 14:40: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F41211960 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:40:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id PAA21746; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:39:41 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990218144122.04033bd0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:42:30 -0700 To: gcross@netspace.net.au From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Port upgrade check/report tool Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902182111.IAA13073@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> References: <4.1.19990218125208.04019eb0@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:07 AM 2/19/99 +1100, gcross@netspace.net.au wrote: >Brett, is this a problem with my script (eg. it is failing to find an >INDEX file) or are you making a more general statement about the moving >nature of available ports & packages for FreeBSD? It's a general problem. After one version comes out, the ports for older ones aren't available via FTP anymore. They should probably do something via symlinks unless there's a reason why the ports won't work on an older version. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 15: 8:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [207.153.65.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA84B11A70 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:08:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA02585; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:07:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:07:48 -0500 (EST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: gcross@netspace.net.au Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Port upgrade check/report tool In-Reply-To: <199902181150.WAA13777@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I think mergemaster has a contender for coolest system tool. Way to go. You might want to make it find installed ports that are not in the index file (ports that have been renamed or deleted). On Thu, 18 Feb 1999 gcross@netspace.net.au wrote: > I haven't found a tool that will look at the current ports index file, > then look at the ports installed on my system and tell me which ports > are now out-of-date and need upgrading. > > So, I have written a Python program that will do just that. > > It will work with either a local copy of a current ports INDEX file, or > fetch one (via ftp or http) from a FreeBSD site. > > Out of sheer originality, I have named it portcheck, and you can read > about it and download the tarball from: > > http://www.netspace.net.au/~gcross/portcheck.html > > I would appreciate comments, bug reports, etc, before I announce it to > a wider audience. > > Thanks > Graeme > > -- > Graeme Cross gcross@netspace.net.au > -- | Matthew N. Dodd | 78 280Z | 75 164E | 84 245DL | FreeBSD/NetBSD/Sprite/VMS | | winter@jurai.net | This Space For Rent | ix86,sparc,m68k,pmax,vax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | Are you k-rad elite enough for my webpage? | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 15:30:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 939E211B0B for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:29:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA28848; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:53:26 GMT (envelope-from nik) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:53:25 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: Matt Meola Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Port upgrade check/report tool Message-ID: <19990218225325.A28239@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <19990218185752.EAVE3226200.mta2-rme@wocker> <199902182208.PAA09529@ima2wk6.ima2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=1yeeQ81UyVL57Vl7 X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199902182208.PAA09529@ima2wk6.ima2>; from Matt Meola on Thu, Feb 18, 1999 at 03:08:26PM -0700 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --1yeeQ81UyVL57Vl7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > On Thu, Feb 18, 1999 at 10:47:04PM +1100, gcross@netspace.net.au wrote: > > > > I haven't found a tool that will look at the current ports index file, > > > > then look at the ports installed on my system and tell me which ports > > > > are now out-of-date and need upgrading. ports/sysutils/pkg_version does the thing. If you apply the attached patch (which has been sent to the author) you get a new "-c" flag which prints out the commands you need to run to update the applications that are out of date. N -- Bagel: The carbohydrate with the hole --1yeeQ81UyVL57Vl7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pkg_version.diff" --- pkg_version.org Sat Jan 2 12:18:40 1999 +++ pkg_version Sat Jan 2 13:27:03 1999 @@ -43,8 +43,10 @@ #$indexFile = "ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports-current/INDEX"; $IndexFile = 'file:/usr/ports/INDEX'; +$ShowCommandsFlag = 0; $DebugFlag = 0; $VerboseFlag = 0; +$CommentChar = "#"; # # CompareVersions @@ -89,49 +91,23 @@ } # -# GetName +# GetNameAndVersion # -# Try to get the "name" of a package, which is basically everything before -# what we think is its version number. +# Get the name and version number of a package. Returns a two element +# array, first element is name, second element is version number. # -sub GetName { +sub GetNameAndVersion { local($string); $string = $_[0]; - # If no hyphens, we assume the whole thing is the name. - if ($string !~ m/-/) { - return $string; - } - else { - # Truncate the string until we've eaten exactly one hyphen. - # What's left at the start of the string is the package name. - while ((chop $string) ne '-') { } - return $string; - } -} + # If no hyphens then no version number + return ($string, "") if $string !~ /-/; -# -# GetVersion -# -# Try to get the version number of a package. -# -sub GetVersion { - local($string); - $string = $_[0]; - - # If no hyphens, assume no version number - if ($string !~ m/-/) { - return ""; - } - else { - # Gobble the string from the start until we've eaten all - # of the hyphens. What's left at the end of the string is - # the version number. - while ($string =~ m/-/) { - $string =~ s/.*-//; - } - return $string; - } + # Match (and group) everything in between two hyphens. Because the + # regexp is 'greedy', the first .* will try and match everything up + # to (but not including) the last hyphen + $string =~ /(.*)-(.*)/; + return ($1, $2); } # @@ -144,7 +120,8 @@ pkg_version $Version Bruce A. Mah -Usage: pkg_version [-d debug] [-h] [-v] [index] +Usage: pkg_version [-c] [-d debug] [-h] [-v] [index] +-c Show commands to update installed packages -d debug Debugging output (debug controls level of output) -h Help (this message) -v Verbose output @@ -156,10 +133,13 @@ # # Parse command-line arguments, deal with them # -if (!getopts('dhv') || ($opt_h)) { +if (!getopts('cdhv') || ($opt_h)) { &PrintHelp(); exit; } +if ($opt_c) { + $ShowCommandsFlag = $opt_c; +} if ($opt_d) { $DebugFlag = $opt_d; } @@ -194,8 +174,7 @@ open CURRENT, "$CurrentPackagesCommand|"; while () { ($packageString, $rest) = split; - $packageName = &GetName($packageString); - $packageVersion = &GetVersion($packageString); + ($packageName, $packageVersion) = &GetNameAndVersion($packageString); $currentPackages{$packageName}{'name'} = $packageName; if (defined $currentPackages{$packageName}{'version'}) { $currentPackages{$packageName}{'version'} .= "," . $packageVersion; @@ -213,10 +192,10 @@ open INDEX, "$IndexPackagesCommand|"; while () { - ($packageString, $rest) = split(/\|/); - $packageName = &GetName($packageString); - $packageVersion = &GetVersion($packageString); + ($packageString, $packagePath, $rest) = split(/\|/); + ($packageName, $packageVersion) = &GetNameAndVersion($packageString); $indexPackages{$packageName}{'name'} = $packageName; + $indexPackages{$packageName}{'path'} = $packagePath; if (defined $indexPackages{$packageName}{'version'}) { $indexPackages{$packageName}{'version'} .= "," . $packageVersion; } @@ -231,13 +210,10 @@ # Produce reports # foreach $packageName (sort keys %currentPackages) { + $~ = "STDOUT_VERBOSE" if $VerboseFlag; + $~ = "STDOUT_COMMANDS" if $ShowCommandsFlag; - if ($VerboseFlag) { - printf "%-20s ", "$packageName-$currentPackages{$packageName}{'version'}"; - } - else { - printf "%-20s ", "$packageName"; - } + $packageNameVer = "$packageName-$currentPackages{$packageName}{'version'}"; if (defined $indexPackages{$packageName}{'version'}) { @@ -247,53 +223,82 @@ $indexRefcount = $indexPackages{$packageName}{'refcount'}; $currentRefcount = $currentPackages{$packageName}{'refcount'}; + $packagePath = $indexPackages{$packageName}{'path'}; + if (($indexRefcount > 1) || ($currentRefcount > 1)) { - print "?"; - if ($VerboseFlag) { - printf " multiple versions (index has %s)", - "$indexPackages{$packageName}{'version'}"; - } + $versionCode = "?"; + $Comment = "multiple versions (index has $indexVersion)"; } else { $rc = &CompareVersions($currentVersion, $indexVersion); - + if ($rc == 0) { - print "="; - if ($VerboseFlag) { - print " up-to-date"; - } + next if $ShowCommandsFlag; + $versionCode = "="; + $Comment = "up-to-date"; } elsif ($rc < 0) { - print "<"; - if ($VerboseFlag) { - printf " needs updating (index has %s)", - "$indexPackages{$packageName}{'version'}"; - } + $versionCode = "<"; + $Comment = "needs updating (index has $indexVersion)" } elsif ($rc > 0) { - print ">"; - if ($VerboseFlag) { - printf " succeeds index (index has %s)", - "$indexPackages{$packageName}{'version'}"; - } + next if $ShowCommandsFlag; + $versionCode = ">"; + $Comment = "succeeds index (index has $indexVersion)"; } else { - print "?"; - if ($VerboseFlag) { - printf " Comparison failed."; - } + $versionCode = "?"; + $Comment = "Comparison failed"; } } } else { - printf "?"; - if ($VerboseFlag) { - printf " unknown in index"; - } + $versionCode = "?"; + $Comment = "unknown in index"; } - print "\n"; - + write; } +exit 0; + +# +# Formats +# +# $CommentChar is in the formats because you can't put a literal '#' in +# a format specification + +# General report (no output flags) +format STDOUT = +@<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< @< +$packageName, $versionCode +. + ; + +# Verbose report (-v flag) +format STDOUT_VERBOSE = +@<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< @< @<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< +$packageNameVer, $versionCode, $Comment +. + ; + +# Report that includes commands to update program (-c flag) +format STDOUT_COMMANDS = +@< +$CommentChar +@< @<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< +$CommentChar, $packageName +@< @<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< +$CommentChar, $Comment +@< +$CommentChar +cd @<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< +$packagePath +make +pkg_delete -f @<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< + $packageNameVer +make install + +. + ; --1yeeQ81UyVL57Vl7-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 15:31:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB089117E8 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:29:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id JAA12958; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:59:30 +1030 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA10449; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:59:14 +1030 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:59:14 +1030 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: gcross@netspace.net.au Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Port upgrade check/report tool In-Reply-To: <199902181150.WAA13777@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/Mixed; MICALG=pgp-md5; PROTOCOL="application/pgp-signature"; BOUNDARY="0-846930886-919338431=:1184" Content-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --0-846930886-919338431=:1184 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: On Thu, 18 Feb 1999 gcross@netspace.net.au wrote: > I haven't found a tool that will look at the current ports index file, > then look at the ports installed on my system and tell me which ports > are now out-of-date and need upgrading. /usr/ports/sysutils/pkg_version Does yours have any extra features? Kris ----- (ASP) Microsoft Corporation (MSFT) announced today that the release of its productivity suite, Office 2000, will be delayed until the first quarter of 1901. --0-846930886-919338431=:1184 Content-Type: APPLICATION/PGP-SIGNATURE; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: Content-Description: -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3ia iQCVAwUBNsv9uMlBq9Wvf+qtAQEIjgP/S0d8qM469TQXpbO/IhdrhaXQKTbTxEdB 6FQocNljgCulYTpQEqTfA6YLOq3irzONuY+Gmk9RqtoYzA6YhzBzqGszoX7tahaU sOpEQXfmTBN84iqD/uZyeViNnp7gGAJQe5a2RnSk0YrzRZ5fNH9g+bfiouv8H1vD jMv2puryccU= =e75p -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --0-846930886-919338431=:1184-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 15:35:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from news-ma.rhein-neckar.de (news-ma.rhein-neckar.de [193.197.90.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4C8A11A5F for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:35:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de) Received: from mips.rhein-neckar.de (uucp@localhost) by news-ma.rhein-neckar.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with bsmtp id AAA19824 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 00:35:18 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de) Received: by mips.rhein-neckar.de id m10DZwR-000WyaC (Debian Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #2); Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:20:59 +0100 (CET) From: naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de (Christian Weisgerber) Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD Date: 18 Feb 1999 21:20:56 +0100 Message-ID: <7ahsn8$ov0$1@mips.rhein-neckar.de> References: <7af7uh$dnb$1@mips.rhein-neckar.de> <4.1.19990217144340.040145d0@mail.lariat.org> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > The FreeBSD approach is more like the "Extended DOS Partition" with > "logical drives" within it. Yes, but it isn't extended partitions, which are apparently supported across various operating systems. FreeBSD does its own thing there, and from the point of view of a typical PC user, with or without Linux experience, FreeBSD is *gratuitously* different. (Personally, I use dedicated mode anyway.) -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de carpe librum: books 'n' reviews To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 15:37:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from otis.netspace.net.au (oldotis.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.190]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C85AF118C6 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:37:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gcross@netspace.net.au) Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by otis.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id KAA09886; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:37:19 +1100 (EST) Received: from torrent (netspace.net.au [203.10.110.194]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with SMTP id KAA09526; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:39:47 +1100 (EST) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:39:37 +1100 (EST) From: Graeme Cross X-Sender: gcross@torrent To: Kris Kennaway Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Port upgrade check/report tool In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Thu, 18 Feb 1999 gcross@netspace.net.au wrote: > > > I haven't found a tool that will look at the current ports index file, > > then look at the ports installed on my system and tell me which ports > > are now out-of-date and need upgrading. > > /usr/ports/sysutils/pkg_version > > Does yours have any extra features? Hmmmm - wasn't aware of either PIB or pkg_version, but am now. From a quick peruse of the source, pkg_version is very similar in function. Cheers Graeme -- Graeme Cross gcross@netspace.net.au To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 15:41:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from otis.netspace.net.au (oldotis.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.190]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CF1111C0C for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:40:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gcross@netspace.net.au) Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by otis.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id KAA10085; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:40:28 +1100 (EST) Received: from torrent (netspace.net.au [203.10.110.194]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with SMTP id KAA10553; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:42:51 +1100 (EST) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:42:41 +1100 (EST) From: Graeme Cross X-Sender: gcross@torrent To: Matt Meola Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Port upgrade check/report tool In-Reply-To: <199902182208.PAA09529@ima2wk6.ima2> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Matt Meola wrote: > Well, it seems that we've been going in parallel paths; I've written a > Python script to do essentially the same thing, 'cept that it will go > ahead and build/install the necessary ports as well. > > The only thing is, making a port will install over an older version, > yet the pkg stuff for the old version remains in /var/db/pkg/. So, is > it proper to do a "make deinstall" before the "make all install"? How will that cope with ports that are installed and rely on the port you are about to "make deinstall"? Cheers Greame -- Graeme Cross gcross@netspace.net.au To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 15:45:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from otis.netspace.net.au (oldotis.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.190]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BB8B11C1E for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:45:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gcross@netspace.net.au) Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by otis.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id KAA10422; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:45:12 +1100 (EST) Received: from torrent (netspace.net.au [203.10.110.194]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with SMTP id KAA12052; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:47:40 +1100 (EST) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:47:29 +1100 (EST) From: Graeme Cross X-Sender: gcross@torrent To: "Matthew N. Dodd" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Port upgrade check/report tool In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > You might want to make it find installed ports that are not in the index > file (ports that have been renamed or deleted). Yes - that is trivial to add and could be of use. How often are ports removed from the official ports archive, and for what sorts of reasons? Cheers Graeme -- Graeme Cross gcross@netspace.net.au To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 15:48:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94DEA11655 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:48:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA22638; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:18:10 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id KAA18673; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:18:08 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19990219101808.Z14890@lemis.com> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:18:08 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Jeremy Lea , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: More important Windows Refund Day coverage... References: <19990218225807.C63286@shale.csir.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19990218225807.C63286@shale.csir.co.za>; from Jeremy Lea on Thu, Feb 18, 1999 at 10:58:08PM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thursday, 18 February 1999 at 22:58:08 +0200, Jeremy Lea wrote: > Well FreeBSD might not have cracked the nod in the mainstream press, but > this article mentions us a lot: > > http://www.segfault.org/story.phtml?mode=2&id=36ca97df-06acf840 > > Now Mike's already admitted to the stickers... *nudge*, *nudge*, *wink*, > *wink*. :) > > Seems like a good time was had by all. Does anybody else get this page with black text on a black background? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 15:54:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [207.153.65.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 971D611C7D for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:53:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA03253; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:53:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:53:48 -0500 (EST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Graeme Cross Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Port upgrade check/report tool In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Graeme Cross wrote: > Yes - that is trivial to add and could be of use. > > How often are ports removed from the official ports archive, and for what > sorts of reasons? Fairly often it seems. Usually its a repository copy. -- | Matthew N. Dodd | 78 280Z | 75 164E | 84 245DL | FreeBSD/NetBSD/Sprite/VMS | | winter@jurai.net | This Space For Rent | ix86,sparc,m68k,pmax,vax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | Are you k-rad elite enough for my webpage? | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 15:54:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A6E711C84 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:54:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id QAA22549; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:53:58 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990218165217.0401b8f0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:53:50 -0700 To: Greg Lehey , Jeremy Lea , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: More important Windows Refund Day coverage... In-Reply-To: <19990219101808.Z14890@lemis.com> References: <19990218225807.C63286@shale.csir.co.za> <19990218225807.C63286@shale.csir.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:18 AM 2/19/99 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >Does anybody else get this page with black text on a black background? You probably have Netscape set to override the page colors. --Brett Goass "When you discover you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount. But lawyers have other strategies, including buying a stronger whip, changing riders ... declaring that the horse is better, faster and cheaper dead, and, finally, harnessing several dead horses together for increased speed." Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson, quoted in The Wall Street Journal To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 15:56: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3D9F118D9; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:56:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA01262; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:56:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd001135; Thu Feb 18 16:55:54 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA22184; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:55:38 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902182355.QAA22184@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Walnut Creek, Where Are You? To: eivind@FreeBSD.ORG (Eivind Eklund) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:55:37 +0000 (GMT) Cc: des@flood.ping.uio.no, brett@lariat.org, asmodai@wxs.nl, mike@smith.net.au, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990218135944.A75263@bitbox.follo.net> from "Eivind Eklund" at Feb 18, 99 01:59:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > I've run FreeBSD on their x86 servers, so I know they can. The only > > > possible issue is lack of token ring support. > > > > It is my understanding that this is being worked on. > > It is my understanding that this is available from > http://anarchy.stdio.com/ and is under review by removed> for inclusion in FreeBSD. Unfortunately, this has been my > understanding for quite a long while. > > Big thanks to Larry Lile for putting in the work he has done on this! Actually, this reminds me. There is a NetBEUI implementation for FreeBSD; it was done by MITRE. Has anyone with an official standing (e.g. Jordan) contacted them about rolling it into FreeBSD proper? There are a hell of a lot of POS systems that are DOS based and depend on SMB over NetBEUI. McDonalds, for instance. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 16:54:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A42211CC2 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:54:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id BAA02600; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 01:54:10 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Matt Meola Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Port upgrade check/report tool References: <19990218185752.EAVE3226200.mta2-rme@wocker> <199902182208.PAA09529@ima2wk6.ima2> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 19 Feb 1999 01:54:10 +0100 In-Reply-To: Matt Meola's message of "Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:08:26 -0700" Message-ID: Lines: 16 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Matt Meola writes: > The only thing is, making a port will install over an older version, > yet the pkg stuff for the old version remains in /var/db/pkg/. So, is > it proper to do a "make deinstall" before the "make all install"? To minimize breakage, a) do this in single-user mode (or with all users kicked off) b) make all c) remove the old version d) make install e) make clean DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 17: 9: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8662113CA for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:08:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from lot.gsoft.com.au (doconnor@lot.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.106]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA06262; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:38:39 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199902182208.PAA09529@ima2wk6.ima2> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:38:38 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Matt Meola Subject: Re: Port upgrade check/report tool Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 18-Feb-99 Matt Meola wrote: > The only thing is, making a port will install over an older version, > yet the pkg stuff for the old version remains in /var/db/pkg/. So, is > it proper to do a "make deinstall" before the "make all install"? Its a good idea.. Otherwise you can't properly remove the old port :) This means you don't get your system cluttered with fluff from old ports. It must be said that you don't always want to do it this way though.. eg GTK et al.. --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 19:58:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C512511559 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:58:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id EAA09575; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 04:57:03 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Jeremy Lea Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: More important Windows Refund Day coverage... References: <19990218225807.C63286@shale.csir.co.za> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 19 Feb 1999 04:57:02 +0100 In-Reply-To: Jeremy Lea's message of "Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:58:08 +0200" Message-ID: Lines: 21 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jeremy Lea writes: > Well FreeBSD might not have cracked the nod in the mainstream press, but > this article mentions us a lot: > > http://www.segfault.org/story.phtml?mode=2&id=36ca97df-06acf840 Ah, Mae Ling Mak, the hacker girl who wrote this very unappetizing story about Richard Stallman: http://www.segfault.org/story.phtml?mode=2&id=367b074c-060b7ba0 Funny thing (re. what Mae Ling writes about RMS scratching himself) is that when he was in Oslo, somebody in the audience said something to the effect that he'd never shake RMS's hand after seeing where it'd been - apparently RMS spent most of the evening scratching his butt. I wouldn't know, I was taking advantage of the unusually quiet and underpopulated lab to get some work done. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 21:49:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3C6410E07 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:49:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jackv@earthling.net) Received: from jackv (adsl-209-76-108-106.dsl.pacbell.net [209.76.108.106]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id VAA26428 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:49:44 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001a01be5bcb$87e0d4e0$6a6c4cd1@jackv.pacbell.net> Reply-To: "Jack Velte" From: "Jack Velte" To: Subject: Upstart challenger to Microsoft's operating software gains serious momentum Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 00:46:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org AP News Service NEW YORK (AP) _ Burlington Coat Factory could have chosen new Windows-based computers for its 250 discount clothing stores this year. Instead, the chain plans to buy 1,300 machines running the Linux operating system, an upstart challenger to Microsoft's more established Windows NT software program. The move underscores the fast-growing popularity of the Linux system, a respected version of the Unix operating software widely used in powerful business computers that run local networks of machines or Web sites. Linux may sound more like a ``Peanuts'' cartoon character than a serious operating system for business computers. But surging demand for the inexpensive software may pose an important new threat to Microsoft Corp., the dominant computer software maker. Giving Linux an important endorsement on Thursday, International Business Machines Corp. announced plans to start selling business computers that come pre-loaded with Linux. The rollout comes after similar moves by Compaq Computer Corp., Dell Computer Corp., Hewlett-Packard Co. and Silicon Graphics Inc. Linux comprised about 17 percent of the software shipped for running business machines last year, up from 7 percent in 1997, says International Data Corp., a high-tech research firm. ``Linux has come out of almost nowhere and quickly become the darling of certain elements of the programming community,'' said Tim Bajarin, president of the Creative Strategies Inc. consulting firm, based in Campbell, Calif. However, it remains to be seen if Linux can break out of its status as a niche product and spurs mass demand among customers. Users rave about Linux's positive attributes, such as its tendency not to crash and its flexibility. Developed in the early 1990s by a Finnish student named Linus Torvalds, Linux can be downloaded for free off the Internet, or bought in commercial versions from distributors such as Red Hat Software for as little as $50. And unlike Microsoft's software blueprints, Linux's source code is shared over the Web, which makes it easy for programmers to blend in improvements. As a result, a small cottage industry of developers around the globe has sprung up. But there still are relatively few software applications that run on the Linux system, particularly compared to Windows-compatible programs. While systems administrators and programmers at companies increasingly are embracing Linux, many corporate managers are heavily committed to Microsoft through growing investments in Windows for desktop computers and Windows NT for business machines. ``The momentum for Windows and Windows NT is extremely strong,'' Bajarin said. ``Microsoft is not going to give up any territory without a major competitive fight.'' Still, demand for Linux is growing. At Bristol Hotels & Resorts, a Dallas-based chain of 120 hotels, developers use about half-a-dozen Linux computers to design Internet software that will perform such tasks as letting hotel guests make reservations online. The company hopes to vastly increase its use of Linux as the Internet becomes more important to its business. ``I'm very, very hopeful that the user community in the world will recognize this as an alternative and choose to embrace it,'' said Joshua Norrid, director of application development at Bristol, which uses about 4,000 computers. Whether Microsoft faces strong competition has become an important issue in its unfolding antitrust trial in Washington, which accuses Microsoft of unfairly squelching rivals. Microsoft, through a spokesman, was quick to reiterate its contention that rivals to its business are alive and well. ``Certainly, it's a competitive threat,'' Microsoft spokesman Adam Sohn said of Linux. ``We are happy to compete head-to-head with Linux on the merits of the technology and the business model.'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 18 23:21:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D528C11674 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:20:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id AAA26197; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 00:20:33 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990218191626.00cc76a0@mail.lariat.org> Message-Id: <4.1.19990218191626.00cc76a0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:17:24 -0700 To: Terry Lambert From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Fascinating GPL License 8) Cc: jcwells@u.washington.edu, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902122302.QAA23640@usr01.primenet.com> References: <4.1.19990212154305.04be99d0@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:02 PM 2/12/99 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >If anything, the lack of a requirement to assign license to "The >FreeBSD Project, Inc." or some other single entity, and the >number of unassigned incorporated programs is what makes the >list so large, were you to trigger the advertising clause. True. But on the other hand, the FSF asks that all copyrights be assigned to it, and look what happens: the software becomes part of the GNU Blob. --Brett "When you discover you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount. But lawyers have other strategies, including buying a stronger whip, changing riders ... declaring that the horse is better, faster and cheaper dead, and, finally, harnessing several dead horses together for increased speed." Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson, quoted in The Wall Street Journal To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 19 7:48: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1CB921182D for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:47:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Message-Id: <199902191551.KAA07396@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Received: from localhost (jamie@localhost) by marsellus.itribe.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA28287; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:47:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:47:46 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: More important Windows Refund Day coverage... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 19 Feb 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Ah, Mae Ling Mak, the hacker girl who wrote this very unappetizing > story about Richard Stallman: > > http://www.segfault.org/story.phtml?mode=2&id=367b074c-060b7ba0 > > Funny thing (re. what Mae Ling writes about RMS scratching himself) is > that when he was in Oslo, somebody in the audience said something to > the effect that he'd never shake RMS's hand after seeing where it'd > been - apparently RMS spent most of the evening scratching his butt. I > wouldn't know, I was taking advantage of the unusually quiet and > underpopulated lab to get some work done. So basically, RMS is the stereotypical geek, with odious personal habits, and absolutely no people skills. Why am I suddenly glad he distances himself from anything non gnu. Jamie Bowden -- If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 19 9:16:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from icicle.winternet.com (icicle.winternet.com [198.174.169.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D241B11830; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:16:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nrahlstr@mail.winternet.com) Received: (from adm@localhost) by icicle.winternet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA22984; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:10:28 -0600 (CST) Received: from tundra.winternet.com(198.174.169.11) by icicle.winternet.com via smap (V2.0) id xma022944; Fri, 19 Feb 99 11:10:08 -0600 Received: (from nrahlstr@localhost) by tundra.winternet.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA12957; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:10:52 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19990219111052.E11830@winternet.com> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:10:52 -0600 From: Nathan Ahlstrom To: "Michael C. Vergallen" , "Michael V. Harding" Cc: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Donations to the FreeBSD project [Was: Re: 3.1R ISO CD Image ??] Reply-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199902191334.FAA62213@netcom1.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Michael C. Vergallen on Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 03:11:10PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [Moving this discussion to freebsd-chat.] Making a donation is a great idea. You can do that a number of ways. Contact Walnut Creek via any of the ways below and tell them that you would like to donate money to the FreeBSD project. Note: I could not find a web page for making a donation? Thanks! Nathan Ordering information from http://www.cdrom.com/info/order.htm Phone (800) 786.9907 (925) 674.0783 (Open 06:00-18:00 PST Monday-Friday) Fax (925) 674.0821 Email orders@cdrom.com Postal Mail Walnut Creek CDROM 4041 Pike Lane, Suite F Concord, CA 94520-1207 U.S.A. "Michael C. Vergallen" wrote: > Hi, > I do think your idea is good, I use FreeBSD here at the office and I > wouldn't mind donating some money to the project ( 100 to 150 USD) for > me this is 30 USD for each machine. I don't purchase cdroms by principle > because ones you have installed your systems it is useless..( I have a box > full off obselete cdroms, witch only polute the environment if I throw > them out I have to pay for the disposal here because they are considered > corporate waste... go figure). So I only use cvs to upgrade. I would > however have no problems donating to the project on a yearly basis as > long as I recieve a invoice to keep my accountants happy ( they are a > bunch off blood sucking creatures..but I like to keep them sweet). > > Regards, > > Michael C. Vergallen > --- > Michael C. Vergallen A.k.A. Mad Mike, > Sportstraat 28 http://www.double-barrel.be/mvergall/ > B 9000 Gent ftp://ftp.double-barrel.be/pub/linux/ > Belgium tel : 32-9-2227764 Fax : 32-9-2224976 > > On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Michael V. Harding wrote: > > > > > I was a long-time subscriber, but had to drop out when the upgrades > > started flying - I do a source code upgrade, and 2 releases a year was > > OK, but I think I was getting 4 releases a year which was a bit steep. > > Is there any way I can subscribe as a contributor, or as a donation - > > support FreeBSD regularly w/o buying the media? I wouldn't have a > > problem kicking in, say, $50/yr. Also, I have used FreeBSD at work - > > I don't think that there would be a problem with having a 'support' or > > maintenance fee per box, if it could be dialed to the appropriate > > amount. > > > > - Mike Harding > > > > Cc: Tommy Hallgren , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG > > Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:29:00 -0800 > > From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" > > Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG > > X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Precedence: bulk > > X-RULES: lists > > > > > True. Seems like the last one was mirrored to other FreeBSD dist sites > > > though (thank goodness! As is wellknown, access to ftp.cdrom.com out here > > > > If it was, I didn't know of any. I specifically stuck it in incoming/ > > so that I wouldn't get shot by mirror sites wondering where 2.4GB of > > extra space suddenly went. > > > > > I wonder if WalnutCreek might consider a "FreeBSD Lite" version of each new > > > RELEASE which is just CD#1 for $5-10. Being a Joe-user, that's all I ever > > > > I've asked this and they don't much like the idea since it makes it > > extremely hard to turn a profit at those sorts of margins. FreeBSD is > > not enough of a "volume" product that you could make enough just on > > sheer quantity alone. Frankly, we have no idea how Cheapbytes makes > > any money at $4.95. > > > > - Jordan > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message -- Nathan Ahlstrom nrahlstr@winternet.com http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 19 10:14:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84F0B11544 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:14:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id LAA01628; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:14:18 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990219111231.03fbef00@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:14:09 -0700 To: Jamie Bowden , Dag-Erling Smorgrav From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: More important Windows Refund Day coverage... Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902191551.KAA07396@gatekeeper.itribe.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:47 AM 2/19/99 -0500, Jamie Bowden wrote: >So basically, RMS is the stereotypical geek, with odious personal habits, >and absolutely no people skills. Why am I suddenly glad he distances >himself from anything non gnu. Unfortunately, he appears to be a relatively good virus writer and propagandist. And, alas, he's not distancing himself from anything "non-GNU;" he's attacking it. He even attacked Tim O'Reilly, AT TIM'S OWN CONFERENCE, for not giving books away for free. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 19 10:15:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A31B11544 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:14:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA24794; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:14:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd024601; Fri Feb 19 11:14:34 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA02577; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:14:16 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902191814.LAA02577@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Fascinating GPL License 8) To: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:14:15 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, jcwells@u.washington.edu, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990218191626.00cc76a0@mail.lariat.org> from "Brett Glass" at Feb 18, 99 07:17:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >If anything, the lack of a requirement to assign license to "The > >FreeBSD Project, Inc." or some other single entity, and the > >number of unassigned incorporated programs is what makes the > >list so large, were you to trigger the advertising clause. > > True. But on the other hand, the FSF asks that all copyrights > be assigned to it, and look what happens: the software becomes > part of the GNU Blob. UCB's CSRG had the same requirement for BSD code. It resulted in "one blob" as well... a "blob" with a BSD license, and only one advertising clause. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 19 10:19:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 552D21189E for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:19:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id LAA01684; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:19:03 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990219111737.03fbfd90@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:18:59 -0700 To: Terry Lambert From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Fascinating GPL License 8) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, jcwells@u.washington.edu, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902191814.LAA02577@usr09.primenet.com> References: <4.1.19990218191626.00cc76a0@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 06:14 PM 2/19/99 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >UCB's CSRG had the same requirement for BSD code. It resulted in >"one blob" as well... a "blob" with a BSD license, and only one >advertising clause. That's quite a bit less obnoxious. It works better because the owner can assign the copyright and still use the code for commercial purposes. That's not possible under the General Poverty License. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 19 12:58: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from stumpy.dannyland.org (danman.isdn.uiuc.edu [192.17.16.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7362B118B1 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:57:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dannyman@stumpy.dannyland.org) Received: (qmail 4578 invoked by uid 1000); 19 Feb 1999 20:58:00 -0000 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:58:00 -0600 From: dannyman To: Christian Weisgerber Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD Message-ID: <19990219145800.D4109@stumpy.dannyland.org> References: <4.1.19990217095946.00928d20@194.184.65.4> <7af7uh$dnb$1@mips.rhein-neckar.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <7af7uh$dnb$1@mips.rhein-neckar.de>; from Christian Weisgerber on Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 09:14:09PM +0100 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 09:14:09PM +0100, Christian Weisgerber wrote: > Actually, nowadays people have only vague ideas about Linux, arrive in a > shop, and want the Linux operating system. Unix? Huh? Oh, it's Linux > compatible? Linux has a lot of press, even in the idiot PC rags, and > many users from the Wintel universe who pick up on it have no idea of > the Unix universe at all. I look at it all as a metaphor for 19th Century American Immigration. Alright, I'm a Chicagoan. Most of the huddled masses of Windows users from the backward old country of Microsoft are riding over on their CDROMs. Linux is New York, and when the newbies see that Giant Penguin statue greeting them to the promised land, they think the Big Red Hat Apple of New Linux York is it. The smart ones though, hop on a train to Chicago. Some of us knew somebody in FreeBSD and so we skipped around the Big Red Hat Apple altogether and think that someday when we've got a spare PC, we'll take a trip to visit the Giant Penguin that is doing our Great Free Nation so much good in bringing us good users. Alright, it's not a great metaphor, but I like it. :) -danny -- dannyman - http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 19 13:32:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B9761187E for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:32:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA03717; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:32:08 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990219143045.03fe4700@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:32:05 -0700 To: dannyman , Christian Weisgerber From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990219145800.D4109@stumpy.dannyland.org> References: <7af7uh$dnb$1@mips.rhein-neckar.de> <4.1.19990217095946.00928d20@194.184.65.4> <7af7uh$dnb$1@mips.rhein-neckar.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org And as soon as the immigrants arrive in the country, con men start trying to sell them gold-plated nickels, claiming that they're $5 gold pieces. Funny, but the coins have penguins on them. ;-) --Brett At 02:58 PM 2/19/99 -0600, dannyman wrote: >On Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 09:14:09PM +0100, Christian Weisgerber wrote: > >> Actually, nowadays people have only vague ideas about Linux, arrive in a >> shop, and want the Linux operating system. Unix? Huh? Oh, it's Linux >> compatible? Linux has a lot of press, even in the idiot PC rags, and >> many users from the Wintel universe who pick up on it have no idea of >> the Unix universe at all. > >I look at it all as a metaphor for 19th Century American Immigration. > >Alright, I'm a Chicagoan. Most of the huddled masses of Windows users from >the backward old country of Microsoft are riding over on their CDROMs. Linux >is New York, and when the newbies see that Giant Penguin statue greeting them >to the promised land, they think the Big Red Hat Apple of New Linux York is >it. > >The smart ones though, hop on a train to Chicago. Some of us knew somebody in >FreeBSD and so we skipped around the Big Red Hat Apple altogether and think >that someday when we've got a spare PC, we'll take a trip to visit the Giant >Penguin that is doing our Great Free Nation so much good in bringing us good >users. > >Alright, it's not a great metaphor, but I like it. :) > >-danny > >-- >dannyman - http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Feb 20 10:50:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6F5A6110CD for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:50:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 7444 invoked from network); 20 Feb 1999 18:50:38 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 1999 18:50:38 -0000 Received: (from toor@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA79492; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:50:28 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902201850.NAA79492@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: Fascinating GPL License 8) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990219111737.03fbfd90@mail.lariat.org> from Brett Glass at "Feb 19, 99 11:18:59 am" To: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:50:28 -0500 (EST) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, jcwells@u.washington.edu, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass said: > At 06:14 PM 2/19/99 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > >UCB's CSRG had the same requirement for BSD code. It resulted in > >"one blob" as well... a "blob" with a BSD license, and only one > >advertising clause. > > That's quite a bit less obnoxious. It works better because the owner > can assign the copyright and still use the code for commercial purposes. > That's not possible under the General Poverty License. > That is the best description of the "GPL" I have EVER heard... More like GPLEFCVA$C... General poverty license except for cdrom vendors and $upport companies. (Hey, I don't care if people make money -- however developers should directly be in the money pipeline also !!!) -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Feb 20 10:53:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 84A4611176 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:53:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 9647 invoked from network); 20 Feb 1999 18:53:06 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 1999 18:53:06 -0000 Received: (from toor@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA79497; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:53:05 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902201853.NAA79497@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990219143045.03fe4700@mail.lariat.org> from Brett Glass at "Feb 19, 99 02:32:05 pm" To: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:53:05 -0500 (EST) Cc: dannyman@dannyland.org, naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass said: > And as soon as the immigrants arrive in the country, con men start trying > to sell them gold-plated nickels, claiming that they're $5 gold pieces. > > Funny, but the coins have penguins on them. ;-) > One or two pengiuns aren't too bad, but have you ever been in an enclosed (or not-so-enclosed) area with penguins? -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Feb 20 11:14:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from stumpy.dannyland.org (danman.isdn.uiuc.edu [192.17.16.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4FD98117B8 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:14:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dannyman@stumpy.dannyland.org) Received: (qmail 17604 invoked by uid 1000); 20 Feb 1999 19:14:49 -0000 Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:14:48 -0600 From: dannyman To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: Brett Glass , naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD Message-ID: <19990220131448.B10162@stumpy.dannyland.org> References: <4.1.19990219143045.03fe4700@mail.lariat.org> <199902201853.NAA79497@y.dyson.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <199902201853.NAA79497@y.dyson.net>; from John S. Dyson on Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 01:53:05PM -0500 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 01:53:05PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > Brett Glass said: > > And as soon as the immigrants arrive in the country, con men start trying > > to sell them gold-plated nickels, claiming that they're $5 gold pieces. > > > > Funny, but the coins have penguins on them. ;-) > > > One or two pengiuns aren't too bad, but have you ever been in an enclosed > (or not-so-enclosed) area with penguins? No. -- dannyman - http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Feb 20 11:22:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9482F1186F for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:22:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 7171 invoked from network); 20 Feb 1999 19:22:00 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 1999 19:22:00 -0000 Received: (from toor@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA79623; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 14:21:57 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902201921.OAA79623@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <19990220131448.B10162@stumpy.dannyland.org> from dannyman at "Feb 20, 99 01:14:48 pm" To: dannyman@dannyland.org (dannyman) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 14:21:57 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, brett@lariat.org, naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org dannyman said: > On Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 01:53:05PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > > Brett Glass said: > > > And as soon as the immigrants arrive in the country, con men start trying > > > to sell them gold-plated nickels, claiming that they're $5 gold pieces. > > > > > > Funny, but the coins have penguins on them. ;-) > > > > > One or two pengiuns aren't too bad, but have you ever been in an enclosed > > (or not-so-enclosed) area with penguins? > > No. > They can smell awful. One or two isn't so bad. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Feb 20 11:24:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from stumpy.dannyland.org (danman.isdn.uiuc.edu [192.17.16.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 74ECD1182E for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:24:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dannyman@stumpy.dannyland.org) Received: (qmail 17671 invoked by uid 1000); 20 Feb 1999 19:24:23 -0000 Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:24:23 -0600 From: dannyman To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: brett@lariat.org, naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD Message-ID: <19990220132423.C10162@stumpy.dannyland.org> References: <19990220131448.B10162@stumpy.dannyland.org> <199902201921.OAA79623@y.dyson.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <199902201921.OAA79623@y.dyson.net>; from John S. Dyson on Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 02:21:57PM -0500 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 02:21:57PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > dannyman said: > > On Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 01:53:05PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > > > Brett Glass said: > > > > And as soon as the immigrants arrive in the country, con men start > > > > trying to sell them gold-plated nickels, claiming that they're $5 gold > > > > pieces. > > > > > > > > Funny, but the coins have penguins on them. ;-) > > > > > > > One or two pengiuns aren't too bad, but have you ever been in an > > > enclosed (or not-so-enclosed) area with penguins? > > > > No. > > > They can smell awful. One or two isn't so bad. I generally try to avoid smelling penguins myself, but you know, different strokes for different folks. -- dannyman - http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Feb 20 11:36:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45462118C0 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:32:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA75879; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:31:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199902201931.LAA75879@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: dyson@iquest.net Cc: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass), dannyman@dannyland.org, naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:53:05 EST." <199902201853.NAA79497@y.dyson.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:31:37 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Brett Glass said: > > And as soon as the immigrants arrive in the country, con men start trying > > to sell them gold-plated nickels, claiming that they're $5 gold pieces. > > > > Funny, but the coins have penguins on them. ;-) > > > One or two pengiuns aren't too bad, but have you ever been in an enclosed > (or not-so-enclosed) area with penguins? I would love to see the face of a hungry wolf walking into a room full of penguins 8) Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Feb 20 11:38:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 816DE11898 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:38:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id MAA03844; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:38:00 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990220123648.03f96cb0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:37:56 -0700 To: Amancio Hasty , dyson@iquest.net From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD Cc: dannyman@dannyland.org, naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902201931.LAA75879@rah.star-gate.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:31 AM 2/20/99 -0800, Amancio Hasty wrote: >I would love to see the face of a hungry wolf walking into a room full of >penguins 8) That's it! Let's do a special version of FreeBSD called LupOS. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Feb 20 11:38:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9FD711960 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:38:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id MAA03841; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:37:59 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990220123306.009bde90@mail.lariat.org> Message-Id: <4.1.19990220123306.009bde90@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:36:19 -0700 To: dyson@iquest.net From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Fascinating GPL License 8) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, jcwells@u.washington.edu, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902201850.NAA79492@y.dyson.net> References: <4.1.19990219111737.03fbfd90@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:50 PM 2/20/99 -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: >> That's quite a bit less obnoxious. It works better because the owner >> can assign the copyright and still use the code for commercial purposes. >> That's not possible under the General Poverty License. >> >That is the best description of the "GPL" I have EVER heard... More >like GPLEFCVA$C... > >General poverty license except for cdrom vendors and $upport companies. > >(Hey, I don't care if people make money -- however developers should > directly be in the money pipeline also !!!) The problem is that the CD-ROM vendors and support companies ultimately won't make money on GPLed software. There's tons of free support and free literature already, and what can't be handled by reading that generally requires an on-site consultant. (Doing things by phone is TREMENDOUSLY expensive.) The CD-ROM vendors, likewise, will need to plan for the day when high-bandwidth links are ubiquitous. They'll be able to sell commercial software (including customized versions of BSD-licensed stuff) and make money, but not GPLed software, because they won't be able to gain even a small proprietary edge by adding novel features or improvements to the code. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Feb 20 12:19: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mrinet.com (mrinet.com [209.57.168.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 524AB11A1C for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:17:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skillet@nauticom.net) Received: from mike ([209.57.168.181]) by mrinet.com (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id PAA04639 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 15:21:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002801be5d0d$857be580$eb01000a@mike> From: "Mike" To: Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 15:13:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I put my Money on the wolf's ;) Mike I once saw a Mac in the trash and right then I knew there was a god. -----Original Message----- From: Brett Glass To: Amancio Hasty ; dyson@iquest.net Cc: dannyman@dannyland.org ; naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de ; freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 2:36 PM Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD >At 11:31 AM 2/20/99 -0800, Amancio Hasty wrote: > >>I would love to see the face of a hungry wolf walking into a room full of >>penguins 8) > >That's it! Let's do a special version of FreeBSD called LupOS. > >--Brett > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Feb 20 12:50:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C739118E1 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:50:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21375; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:50:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd021164; Sat Feb 20 13:50:16 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA16452; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:49:59 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902202049.NAA16452@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD To: dannyman@dannyland.org (dannyman) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 20:49:58 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, brett@lariat.org, naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990220131448.B10162@stumpy.dannyland.org> from "dannyman" at Feb 20, 99 01:14:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Have you ever been in an enclosed area with penguins? > > No. I may be going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing that this will be the majority answer for the listening audience, with the possible exceptions of Bruce Wayne, Selina Kyle, and Oswald Cobblepot. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- PS: http://www.toymania.com/sp/sppeng.gif --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Feb 20 12:52:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F312510E58 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:52:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22605; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:52:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd022545; Sat Feb 20 13:52:28 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA16528; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:52:17 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902202052.NAA16528@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 20:52:16 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, brett@lariat.org, dannyman@dannyland.org, naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902201931.LAA75879@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Feb 20, 99 11:31:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I would love to see the face of a hungry wolf walking into a room full of > penguins 8) If the room was full of penguins, wouldn't you be a penguin too? I know, I know... "If your friends jumped off a cliff...". 8-) Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Feb 20 13:12: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 94F9C1182E for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:09:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 24153 invoked from network); 20 Feb 1999 21:09:47 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 1999 21:09:47 -0000 Received: (from toor@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA80617; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:09:47 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902202109.QAA80617@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199902202049.NAA16452@usr08.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Feb 20, 99 08:49:58 pm" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:09:46 -0500 (EST) Cc: dannyman@dannyland.org, dyson@iquest.net, brett@lariat.org, naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert said: > > > Have you ever been in an enclosed area with penguins? > > > > No. > > I may be going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing that this will be > the majority answer for the listening audience, with the possible > exceptions of Bruce Wayne, Selina Kyle, and Oswald Cobblepot. > Oswald should be their mascot :-). -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Feb 20 13:12:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 13E0C11894 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:11:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 26272 invoked from network); 20 Feb 1999 21:11:50 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 1999 21:11:50 -0000 Received: (from toor@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA80625; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:11:51 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902202111.QAA80625@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <19990220132423.C10162@stumpy.dannyland.org> from dannyman at "Feb 20, 99 01:24:23 pm" To: dannyman@dannyland.org (dannyman) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:11:51 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, brett@lariat.org, naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org dannyman said: > > > > > They can smell awful. One or two isn't so bad. > > I generally try to avoid smelling penguins myself, but you know, different > strokes for different folks. > It all depends on how much a person gets around. I have been on farms also... I prefer not to live near a pig-farm, for example. Similarly, but not as intensely, penguins have that kind problem. In fact, I do suggest avoiding pig-farms if you are sensitive to odors. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Feb 20 13:15:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from stumpy.dannyland.org (danman.isdn.uiuc.edu [192.17.16.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C275C118E2 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:14:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dannyman@stumpy.dannyland.org) Received: (qmail 18180 invoked by uid 1000); 20 Feb 1999 21:14:07 -0000 Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 15:14:07 -0600 From: dannyman To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: brett@lariat.org, naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD Message-ID: <19990220151407.F10162@stumpy.dannyland.org> References: <19990220132423.C10162@stumpy.dannyland.org> <199902202111.QAA80625@y.dyson.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <199902202111.QAA80625@y.dyson.net>; from John S. Dyson on Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 04:11:51PM -0500 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 04:11:51PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > dannyman said: > > > They can smell awful. One or two isn't so bad. > > > > I generally try to avoid smelling penguins myself, but you know, different > > strokes for different folks. > > > It all depends on how much a person gets around. I have been on farms > also... I prefer not to live near a pig-farm, for example. Similarly, but > not as intensely, penguins have that kind problem. > > In fact, I do suggest avoiding pig-farms if you are sensitive to odors. Here at the University of Illinois, I've found it best to give the Swine Research Facility wide berth. Some days, the winds blow from the south, and the campus is blanketed with a mild manure aroma. -danny -- dannyman - http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Feb 20 14: 7: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bytor.rush.net (bytor.rush.net [209.45.245.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A40E1198C for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 14:06:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lynch@rush.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by bytor.rush.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA26897; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:04:03 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from lynch@rush.net) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:04:02 -0500 (EST) From: Pat Lynch To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: Brett Glass , dannyman@dannyland.org, naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199902201853.NAA79497@y.dyson.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Does Linus Torvald's Q&A at USENIX count? -Pat ___________________________________________________________________________ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net Systems Administrator Rush Networking Remark made by Bertrand Meyer (inventor of the Eiffel language) at a panel discussion at OOPSLA '89: "COBOL programmers are destined to code COBOL for the rest of their lives, and thereafter." ___________________________________________________________________________ On Sat, 20 Feb 1999, John S. Dyson wrote: > Brett Glass said: > > And as soon as the immigrants arrive in the country, con men start trying > > to sell them gold-plated nickels, claiming that they're $5 gold pieces. > > > > Funny, but the coins have penguins on them. ;-) > > > One or two pengiuns aren't too bad, but have you ever been in an enclosed > (or not-so-enclosed) area with penguins? > > -- > John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, > dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid > jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Feb 20 17:34:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B6ED10E7B for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:34:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: (from fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id TAA22596; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 19:33:49 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19990220193349.G17092@futuresouth.com> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 19:33:49 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Terry Lambert , Amancio Hasty Cc: dyson@iquest.net, brett@lariat.org, dannyman@dannyland.org, naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD References: <199902201931.LAA75879@rah.star-gate.com> <199902202052.NAA16528@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199902202052.NAA16528@usr08.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 08:52:16PM +0000 X-OS: FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 08:52:16PM +0000, a little birdie told me that Terry Lambert remarked > > I know, I know... "If your friends jumped off a cliff...". Then I could install FreeBSD on all their computers! And I'd get all the pizza too. --- *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | Matthew Fuller http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd | * fullermd@futuresouth.com fullermd@over-yonder.net * | UNIX Systems Administrator Specializing in FreeBSD | * FutureSouth Communications ISPHelp ISP Consulting * | "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, | * is because I haven't figured out how to light the * | middle yet" | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Feb 20 21:49:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 941B411B4C for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 21:49:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Message-Id: <199902210552.AAA18634@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Received: from localhost (jamie@localhost) by marsellus.itribe.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id AAA20340; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 00:49:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 00:49:04 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: Brett Glass Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: More important Windows Refund Day coverage... In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990219111231.03fbef00@mail.lariat.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > At 10:47 AM 2/19/99 -0500, Jamie Bowden wrote: > > >So basically, RMS is the stereotypical geek, with odious personal habits, > >and absolutely no people skills. Why am I suddenly glad he distances > >himself from anything non gnu. > > Unfortunately, he appears to be a relatively good virus writer and > propagandist. > > And, alas, he's not distancing himself from anything "non-GNU;" he's > attacking it. He even attacked Tim O'Reilly, AT TIM'S OWN CONFERENCE, > for not giving books away for free. So, Tim O'Reilly is supposed to just make books out of thin air? Does RMS have a connection to reality? Paper, printing presses, binders, ink, and labour all cost money. Of course, there's far more overhead involved here that I really don't feel like getting into. What crack is he on? Maybe he didn't notice that communism as a social experiment failed before it ever got off the ground. The leninist states that grew out of it also failed, though it took far longer. Jamie Bowden -- If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Feb 20 22:39:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nethammer.qad.org (nethammer.qad.org [195.211.170.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4765010E9D for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:39:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonas@nethammer.qad.org) Received: (from jonas@localhost) by nethammer.qad.org (8.9.2/8.9.1) id HAA02838; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 07:38:51 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jonas) To: Jamie Bowden Cc: Brett Glass , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: More important Windows Refund Day coverage... References: <199902210552.AAA18634@gatekeeper.itribe.net> From: Jonas Luster Organization: Gnus Addict X-URL: http://www.newsbone.org/~jonas/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: 21 Feb 1999 07:38:50 +0100 Message-ID: Lines: 25 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thus spoke Jamie Bowden : > > And, alas, he's not distancing himself from anything "non-GNU;" he's > > attacking it. He even attacked Tim O'Reilly, AT TIM'S OWN CONFERENCE, > > for not giving books away for free. > > So, Tim O'Reilly is supposed to just make books out of thin air? Does > RMS have a connection to reality? Paper, printing presses, binders, ink, > and labour all cost money. Of course, there's far more overhead involved > here that I really don't feel like getting into. RMS, basically, is your out-of-the-box advocatis diaboli. Speaking to him in a more private athmosphere shows his real concerns about Unix and particularly Linux/FreeBSD going more and more the commecrial way without noticing that the roots that e.g. Linux was built on are free and should stay so. Soft voices cannot or will not be heard in this NASDAQ-focussed, Redmond dominated IT-world of ours, take some Linux-Vendors aim for an commercialised, expensive, Linux and RMS' view of the things and you'll find a way between this both extremes. O'Reilly might have been the worst target to chose, but, hey, he got his revenge :). jonas To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Feb 20 23:39: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4938B11022 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 23:38:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA05744; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 18:08:47 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id SAA44154; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 18:08:46 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19990221180845.J93492@lemis.com> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 18:08:45 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Jamie Bowden , Brett Glass Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: More important Windows Refund Day coverage... References: <4.1.19990219111231.03fbef00@mail.lariat.org> <199902210552.AAA18634@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199902210552.AAA18634@gatekeeper.itribe.net>; from Jamie Bowden on Sun, Feb 21, 1999 at 12:49:04AM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, 21 February 1999 at 0:49:04 -0500, Jamie Bowden wrote: > On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > >> At 10:47 AM 2/19/99 -0500, Jamie Bowden wrote: >> >>> So basically, RMS is the stereotypical geek, with odious personal habits, >>> and absolutely no people skills. Why am I suddenly glad he distances >>> himself from anything non gnu. >> >> Unfortunately, he appears to be a relatively good virus writer and >> propagandist. >> >> And, alas, he's not distancing himself from anything "non-GNU;" he's >> attacking it. He even attacked Tim O'Reilly, AT TIM'S OWN CONFERENCE, >> for not giving books away for free. > > So, Tim O'Reilly is supposed to just make books out of thin air? Does > RMS have a connection to reality? Paper, printing presses, binders, ink, > and labour all cost money. Of course, there's far more overhead involved > here that I really don't feel like getting into. > > What crack is he on? Maybe he didn't notice that communism as a social > experiment failed before it ever got off the ground. The leninist > states that grew out of it also failed, though it took far longer. To be fair to rms, if GNU is communist (and there's a lot going for that theory; I've proposed it myself. Funnily, rms wasn't amused), then FreeBSD is anarchist. That didn't work in society either. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message