From owner-freebsd-database Wed Nov 10 19: 6:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-database@freebsd.org Received: from goshen.rutgers.edu (goshen.rutgers.edu [165.230.180.150]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4418E14C0F for ; Wed, 10 Nov 1999 19:06:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from damascus@eden.rutgers.edu) Received: from damascus (damascus.dorm.rutgers.edu [165.230.0.68]) by goshen.rutgers.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA06967 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 1999 22:06:08 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991110220244.00ac2e40@email.eden.rutgers.edu> X-Sender: damascus@email.eden.rutgers.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 22:07:31 -0500 To: freebsd-database@FreeBSD.ORG From: Carroll Kong Subject: Commercial Database Use? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-database@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi. I have been using FreeBSD for quite some time and I feel it is a great OS. Now I am put into a position where I will lead the system design for a startup company. I want to use FreeBSD, but my employers are adamant at using Oracle. Any idea when Oracle will be released? And even so, is Oracle for FreeBSD going to be robust enough to handle the load? I cannot give out too many details due to an NDA (I am really sorry), but they assure me we will reach large loads. (estimate load of a medium sized company with a lot of database access / web accesses). So relatively complex queries, and a good number of them. I have deeply considered solaris + oracle instead, but I have a strong desire and trust in FreeBSD. Does anyone have any advice they can give me on this? Thanks deeply in advance. -Carroll Kong To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-database" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-database Wed Nov 10 22:37:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-database@freebsd.org Received: from mail.vera.net (mail.vera.net [200.33.116.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F46314D57 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 1999 22:37:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mdragon@vera.net) Received: from mail.vera.net (mail.vera.net [200.33.116.55]) by mail.vera.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA18210; Thu, 11 Nov 1999 00:36:34 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 00:36:34 -0600 (CST) From: "Victor M. Mondragon A." To: Carroll Kong Cc: freebsd-database@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Commercial Database Use? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991110220244.00ac2e40@email.eden.rutgers.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-database@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 10 Nov 1999, Carroll Kong wrote: > I have deeply considered solaris + oracle instead, but I have a strong > desire and trust in FreeBSD. Does anyone have any advice they can give me > on this? Thanks deeply in advance. I have asked the Oracle people 'when will they release the FreeBSD version' and they replied that it is not in their current plans that expand to the second quarter of 2000. We are happy here with Oracle (for Linux) running on FreeBSD (12 Gigs database) but the same thing performs better on Linux to be honest. (Even if not using the raid on Linux) They are equal machines (HP-Netservers LH4 with a lot of memory and 5-9 Gb. 10,000 rpm disks). FreeBSD outperforms Linux and Solaris on networking so our WWW and anything that has to do with internet runs on FreeBSD. The tricky (an very undesirable) part is that all queries to the database are sent to another host which resolves them and sends back the data to the httpd server. All this needs to be done because we haven't been able to assemble an Apache/mod_perl/DBI-DBD{Oracle,Solid} on FreeBSD 3.3-stable. On the other hand, I feel much more 'secure' when the data resides on the Sun, somehow Oracle feels more at home. IMHO __Oracle on (sparc) Solaris__ is the way to go (if you can afford it). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-database" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-database Thu Nov 11 0:45:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-database@freebsd.org Received: from Tronix.artelecom.ru (Tronix.artelecom.ru [213.24.60.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52ADC14CB4 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 1999 00:45:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fil@artelecom.ru) Received: from artelecom.ru (eye.artelecom.ru [213.24.60.39]) by Tronix.artelecom.ru (8.9.2-MVC/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02520 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 1999 11:45:37 +0300 (MSK) Message-ID: <382A820D.6077C067@artelecom.ru> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 11:45:01 +0300 From: Dmitry Filatkin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-database@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Commercial Database Use? References: <4.2.0.58.19991110220244.00ac2e40@email.eden.rutgers.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-database@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Carroll Kong wrote: > > Hi. I have been using FreeBSD for quite some time and I feel it is a > great OS. Now I am put into a position where I will lead the system design > for a startup company. I want to use FreeBSD, but my employers are adamant > at using Oracle. Any idea when Oracle will be released? And even so, is > Oracle for FreeBSD going to be robust enough to handle the load? I cannot > give out too many details due to an NDA (I am really sorry), but they > assure me we will reach large loads. (estimate load of a medium sized > company with a lot of database access / web accesses). So relatively > complex queries, and a good number of them. > I have deeply considered solaris + oracle instead, but I have a strong > desire and trust in FreeBSD. Does anyone have any advice they can give me > on this? Thanks deeply in advance. I installing Oracle805/Linux libs and successful compiling client software for connection to Oracle805/Spark. Need 3.3-RELEASE version of FBSD, installed rpm. Remove all files from /compat/linux and install linux RPMs. Brand linux binaries. Make user/group for oracle with linux shell and shell variables. Run oracle installer from xterm - for keys compatible. Install. I use crosscompiled Apache+PHP+OCI8 for users support (internet providing) and test sources from Oracle. Test page with simple command - http://www.atnet.ru/test/oraphp-on-fbsd/ List of need RPMs and ugly setup script - ftp://ftp.atnet.ru/pub/OS/linux/RPMS/ -- fil To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-database" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-database Thu Nov 11 7:51: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-database@freebsd.org Received: from alpha.netaccess.on.ca (alpha.netaccess.on.ca [199.243.225.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF19114DB1 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 1999 07:51:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rob@ControlQ.com) Received: from fatlady.controlq.com (dial181.nas.net [199.243.225.181]) by alpha.netaccess.on.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA08145; Thu, 11 Nov 1999 10:49:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 10:53:44 -0500 (EST) From: "Robert S. Sciuk" To: "Victor M. Mondragon A." Cc: Carroll Kong , freebsd-database@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Commercial Database Use? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-database@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I agree with your sentiments about FreeBSD .. It IS a great OS, and much more stable than some other nameless commercial products ... however -- if Oracle is mandatory, then I think you should look at UnixWare, HP-UX, Solaris or some other operating system with full support by/from Oracle. Commercial s/w development must have a clear support stream. If you are not capable of supporting the OS, the DBMS and the application as well, beware the freeware approach to commercial development. With the Linux version of Oracle on FreeBSD: o you are relying on a version of Oracle from which they derive little if any revenues, and so risks being orphaned when the Linux hysteria dies down (any takers??). o you are relying on the Linux emulation on FreeBSD which runs the same risks of the Linux hysteria subsiding, and no-one any longer cares how well Linux native stuff runs on FreeBSD. o you are running in emulation mode which does not fully support Linux Threads, and so the scalability will be impinged on systems with multiple CPUs. o you are not supported by a real company on the OS. Customer problem escalation will ride solely on your shoulders. Not a problem when everything is working, but I can tell you some support horror stories which will curl your toes, even with vendor supported OS's, HW and applications. If Intel hw is mandatory, you'd be hard pressed to beat SCO's UnixWare. It scales well, is full SYSV, and seems more reasonably priced than Solaris. Sparc -> Solaris, PARISC -> HP-UX, PWR -> AIX (but use DB2 not Oracle) If this is for internal use only ... hey, try Postgresql/FreeBSD ... just be aware of the implications for the dark day when something breaks -- or have a hot spare. That is the beauty of freeware -- take the money you would have invested in commercial hw/os/applications, and twin the hw. Just something to think about, Cheers, R. On Thu, 11 Nov 1999, Victor M. Mondragon A. wrote: > > On the other hand, I feel much more 'secure' when the data resides on the > Sun, somehow Oracle feels more at home. uh huh! > > IMHO __Oracle on (sparc) Solaris__ is the way to go (if you can afford > it). > Well, I'd check out HP-UX/Oracle as well To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-database" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-database Thu Nov 11 10: 5:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-database@freebsd.org Received: from www.cyfari.com (tc-wc-de-68-50 [63.70.68.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D689B14E8E for ; Thu, 11 Nov 1999 10:05:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from naief@cyfari.com) Received: (qmail 1482 invoked from network); 11 Nov 1999 23:05:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?208.193.65.11?) (208.193.65.11) by www.cyfari.com with SMTP; 11 Nov 1999 23:05:29 -0000 Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 13:03:22 -0500 (EST) From: Naief Bin Talal To: Carroll Kong Cc: freebsd-database@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Commercial Database Use? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991110220244.00ac2e40@email.eden.rutgers.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-database@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Go with Sun... I think this is the best advice for you. If your managers are adamant about anything technical, it means one of two things; both could spell trouble for you in the future. 1. They are clueless. How could they intrust their startup to a person and then interfere in their work. Such management types are very quick to blame your choices when anything goes wrong. If this is the case your are best advised to choose what they want and whatever "everyone else is using" and whats supported by a huge company which "understands our business" and so on. This way when :-) things go wrong your answer is the standard acceptable to them; we are on the phone with Sun/Oracle Sir/Ma'am!. 2. They don't fully trust your judgment. If that is the case then you better do exactly what they want. Face the truth you are not their designer and they apparently have not hired you as such, so don't act like you are. Just do what they want you to do or find another employer who value your skill and judgment. This advice I offer to you in good faith.. take it or leave it .. but if I were you I would take it to heart and save myself a massive headache. Please Don't be offended by my harsh way, I've never been a diplomat before :-<. Cheers, Naief. BTW: I use FreeBSD all the time, because I never accpet to work for anyone who does not trust my jugdment! ------------------------------------------------------- Naief BinTalal | naief@cyfari.com Chief Engine Architect | more == less CyFari, Inc | join the tribe The Aggregation Engine | http://www.cyfari.com/ ------------------------------------------------------- "A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral" -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery ------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 10 Nov 1999, Carroll Kong wrote: > Hi. I have been using FreeBSD for quite some time and I feel it is a > great OS. Now I am put into a position where I will lead the system design > for a startup company. I want to use FreeBSD, but my employers are adamant > at using Oracle. Any idea when Oracle will be released? And even so, is > Oracle for FreeBSD going to be robust enough to handle the load? I cannot > give out too many details due to an NDA (I am really sorry), but they > assure me we will reach large loads. (estimate load of a medium sized > company with a lot of database access / web accesses). So relatively > complex queries, and a good number of them. > I have deeply considered solaris + oracle instead, but I have a strong > desire and trust in FreeBSD. Does anyone have any advice they can give me > on this? Thanks deeply in advance. > > -Carroll Kong > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-database" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-database" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-database Thu Nov 11 11: 8:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-database@freebsd.org Received: from feynman.hiverworld.com (nostromo.org [209.133.51.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73AD114C85 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 1999 11:08:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jflowers@hiverworld.com) Received: from hiverworld.com (armor.hiverworld.com [209.133.51.254]) by feynman.hiverworld.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA25495; Thu, 11 Nov 1999 11:07:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <382B1539.6188AF73@hiverworld.com> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 11:12:57 -0800 From: John S Flowers Organization: Hiverworld, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Carroll Kong , freebsd-database@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commercial Database Use? References: <4.2.0.58.19991110220244.00ac2e40@email.eden.rutgers.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-database@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Nothing against FreeBSD personally, but -- having used the Linux (and other) versions of Oracle, I'd stick with Oracle on Solaris. Our company is a 100% FreeBSD & OpenBSD shop. It's essentially all we run, with a few server (mostly database) exceptions. If I were you, I'd put Oracle on Solaris and add the Veritas FileSystem (vxfs) and the Veritas Oracle Accelerator. You'll get better performance and reliability than you could ever imagine with other OSs. Also, it pains me to say this, as I'm a huge fan of *BSD, but Oracle on Solaris just works. In the long run, I'd rather administer Solaris on one system that spend hours a week trying to figure out why my SEM setting is causing memory corruption on *BSD. Just my opinion, having done this a 1/2 dozen times or so. -- John S Flowers Chief Technology Officer http://www.hiverworld.com Hiverworld, Inc. Enterprise Network Security Network Forensics, Intrusion Detection and Risk Assessment Carroll Kong wrote: > > Hi. I have been using FreeBSD for quite some time and I feel it is a > great OS. Now I am put into a position where I will lead the system design > for a startup company. I want to use FreeBSD, but my employers are adamant > at using Oracle. Any idea when Oracle will be released? And even so, is > Oracle for FreeBSD going to be robust enough to handle the load? I cannot > give out too many details due to an NDA (I am really sorry), but they > assure me we will reach large loads. (estimate load of a medium sized > company with a lot of database access / web accesses). So relatively > complex queries, and a good number of them. > I have deeply considered solaris + oracle instead, but I have a strong > desire and trust in FreeBSD. Does anyone have any advice they can give me > on this? Thanks deeply in advance. > > -Carroll Kong > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-database" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-database" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-database Thu Nov 11 12:38:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-database@freebsd.org Received: from mail.crednet.com (mail.crednet.com [209.51.73.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AA2B14D6F for ; Thu, 11 Nov 1999 12:37:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ter@morfi.com) Received: from 209.51.73.33 by mail.crednet.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1460.8) id W24GB017; Thu, 11 Nov 1999 12:21:56 -0800 Message-ID: <382AB482.C997C56F@morfi.com> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 12:20:18 +0000 From: ter Reply-To: ter@morfi.com Organization: Morfi X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-database@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: (no subject) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-database@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk UNSUBSCRIBE To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-database" in the body of the message