From owner-freebsd-arch Sun Apr 23 16:23:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4212337B7A5 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 16:23:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA11646 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 01:23:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id BAA10708 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 01:23:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F7DC37B886 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 16:22:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from green@FreeBSD.org) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 19:22:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Fundakowski Feldman X-Sender: green@green.dyndns.org To: arch@freebsd.org Subject: limits.h and styles; ANSIfication Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've noticed that machdep headers tend to diverge quite a bit from the i386 and alpha trees, and it seems like this is a good thing. It's a good thing because old headers are being cleaned up and made much more readable. The first case I'd like to take care of is limits.h. If you look at the i386 tree's limits.h, you have things like this, a prime example: #define INT_MIN (-2147483647-1) /* min value for an int */ Now, if you look at the alpha header, limits.h looks much cleaner: #define INT_MIN (-0x7fffffff-1) /* min value for an int */ Okay, that's nicer, but it's not as clean as the now-common: #define INT_MIN -0x80000000 /* min value for an int */ There are many cases of this. In each case, the "compiler bugs" that caused the very strange declarations are no longer around, and likely haven't been around for a very long time. I'd like to bring these files' styles in line with eachother. Here are the (fully-tested on i386) diffs which bring the styles closer, standardizing on hexadecimal constants rather than weird-looking decimal ones. The advantage is, of course, that it's easy to count the bits in a hexadecimal constant, so the header is much more human-readable. Consulting the C9X draft, January 18, 1999 (WG14/N869), pg. 492 (Annex E: Implementation limits), the new style is perfectly acceptable: [#1] The contents of the header are given below, in alphabetical order. The minimum magnitudes shown shall be replaced by implementation-defined magnitudes with the same sign. The values shall all be constant expressions suitable for use in #if preprocessing directives. The components are described further in 5.2.4.2.1. Therefore, I'd like to submit the patches for this cleanup for review. After this, I'd like to begin work on making our system's headers more C9X-compliant, including getting , , and , and knocked off first. is the home of things such as ptrdiff_t, size_t, wchar_t, NULL, and offsetof(). is the home of u?int(|_least|_fast)[[:digit:]]*_t, u?intptr_t, and u?intmax_t. There are of course some issues with getting the proper ifdefs in, but it's not bad. Of course, these will also require work on , but hopefully will not have to be modified for anything but the "maximal" int types. Sorry for turning this into two different subjects, but it's inevitable. I'd appreciate reviews on limits.h, and of course discussion for the implementation of C9X in FreeBSD. -- Brian Fundakowski Feldman \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! / green@FreeBSD.org `------------------------------' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sun Apr 23 16:24:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D564137B682 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 16:24:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA11654 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 01:24:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id BAA10722 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 01:24:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B920737B886 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 16:24:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from green@FreeBSD.org) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 19:24:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Fundakowski Feldman X-Sender: green@green.dyndns.org To: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: limits.h and styles; ANSIfication In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Of course, the diffs for limits.h are to be found here: http://people.FreeBSD.org/~green/limits.patch -- Brian Fundakowski Feldman \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! / green@FreeBSD.org `------------------------------' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Apr 24 12:54:56 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD2FB37BBB2 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 12:54:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21617 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 21:54:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id VAA12530 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 21:54:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5762437BBB2; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 12:54:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (root@c04-194.006.popsite.net [216.126.137.194]) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA36379; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 12:54:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id MAA13999; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 12:54:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 12:54:09 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Brian Fundakowski Feldman Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: limits.h and styles; ANSIfication Message-ID: <20000424125408.A13576@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@freebsd.org References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from green@freebsd.org on Sun, Apr 23, 2000 at 07:24:47PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Apr 23, 2000 at 07:24:47PM -0400, Brian Fundakowski Feldman wrote: > Of course, the diffs for limits.h are to be found here: > > http://people.FreeBSD.org/~green/limits.patch Why are you removing the ()'s from the macros? They are there to protect the expansion and should stay. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Apr 25 4: 4: 8 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 485C437BCE7 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 04:04:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29330 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 13:04:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id NAA00328 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 13:03:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from gidora.zeta.org.au (gidora.zeta.org.au [203.26.10.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 84BC737BC31 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 22:04:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bde@zeta.org.au) Received: (qmail 3316 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2000 05:04:18 -0000 Received: from bde.zeta.org.au (203.2.228.102) by gidora.zeta.org.au with SMTP; 25 Apr 2000 05:04:18 -0000 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 15:04:14 +1000 (EST) From: Bruce Evans X-Sender: bde@alphplex.bde.org To: Kris Kennaway Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: MACHINE_CPU In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 21 Apr 2000, Kris Kennaway wrote: > I want to enable support for CPU-specific assembler code in things like > libgmp, openssl, etc, which requires knowledge of the target CPU type (not > just the architecture). For example, OpenSSL only includes asm code for > pentium and above, so we can't just build it if MACHINE_ARCH == "i386". > > The obvious way to do this is to add a MACHINE_CPU to sys.mk and add a > shadow TARGET_CPU in Makefile.inc1. Any objections to this approach? I think MACHINE_CPU requires similar support to MACHINE and MACHINE_ARCH in make(1). sys.mk can't do much more with it than convert it from an environment variable to CFLAGS, but it shouldn't do that. Hacks like the current "MACHINE_ARCH ?= i386" only work because make(1) supports the variable except on a few machine all of the same type. (This hack is only for bootstrapping using old versions of make(1) and shouldn't be in sys.mk anyway.) Note that you can't actually use MACHINE_CPU to make finer distinctions than MACHINE if the distinctions would result in code that doesn't run on all systems with the same value of MACHINE, at least for releases. The files in libc/i386/net/ still have to avoid using the i486 bswap instruction because plain i386's are still supported. Bruce To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Apr 25 23:43:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D556A37B612 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:43:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06425 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 08:43:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id IAA02935 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 08:43:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2427937B543; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:41:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (root@c04-031.006.popsite.net [216.126.137.31]) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA44503; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:41:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id XAA01154; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:41:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:41:35 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How about building modules along with the kernel? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/modules/syscons/fire fire_saver.c src/sys/modules/syscons/rain rain_saver.c src/sys/modules/syscons/warp warp_saver.c) Message-ID: <20000425234135.E1022@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org References: <20000426102521.C38026@freebie.lemis.com> <20000426124729.D40207@freebie.lemis.com> <20000426075649.B75904@lucifer.bart.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000426075649.B75904@lucifer.bart.nl>; from jruigrok@via-net-works.nl on Wed, Apr 26, 2000 at 07:56:49AM +0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Apr 26, 2000 at 07:56:49AM +0200, Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven wrote: > > >X. Install the kernel and its modules in a subdirectory. I'd suggest > > we call the subdirectory /kernel/, so we can rename the > > subdirectories on install the way we currently rename the kernel > > itself. What do we call the kernel? How about /kernel/FreeBSD? > > What's wrong with installing kernel in / and the modules under /modules? What modules do you use if you need to boot "kernel.old"? That is a problem. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Apr 25 23:56:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09F4F37BB4A for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:56:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06550 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 08:56:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id IAA02964 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 08:56:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from man-97-187.reshall.berkeley.edu (man-97-187.Reshall.Berkeley.EDU [169.229.97.187]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2DF437BB81 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:48:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lou@man-97-187.reshall.berkeley.edu) Received: from man-97-187.reshall.berkeley.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by man-97-187.reshall.berkeley.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA40190 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:48:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lou@man-97-187.reshall.berkeley.edu) Message-ID: <39069156.4492924F@man-97-187.reshall.berkeley.edu> Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:48:54 -0700 From: Tak Pui Lou X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: subscribe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG subscribe freebsd-arch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Apr 26 0:16:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50D9637BB4A for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:16:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06792 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:16:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id JAA03010 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:16:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45A7537B580 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:12:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (root@c04-031.006.popsite.net [216.126.137.31]) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA44641 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:12:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id AAA02820 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:12:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Received: from freebsd by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.2.3) for obrien@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:10:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from overcee.netplex.com.au (peter1.yahoo.com [208.48.107.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2C2537BB1E; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:02:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.netplex.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22F3F1CE1; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:02:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Reply-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How about building modules along with the kernel? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/modules/syscons/fire fire_saver.c src/sys/modules/syscons/rain rain_saver.c src/sys/modules/syscons/warp warp_saver.c) In-Reply-To: Message from "David O'Brien" of "Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:38:09 PDT." <20000425233809.C1022@dragon.nuxi.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:02:20 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20000426070220.22F3F1CE1@overcee.netplex.com.au> X-UIDL: e8bbe400ca141074c39e42151afc23db Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "David O'Brien" wrote: > On Tue, Apr 25, 2000 at 10:40:23PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: > > If you want, I'd do this myself this weekend. I don't think the makefile > > part is all that difficult. > > At BSDcon we agreed that (1) the modules need to be built in a subdir of > the kernel build dir; (2) they should be installed somewhere where their > name matches the kernel name [/modules-kernel, /modules-kernel.old] for > instance. The machanism for finding modules files was never fully > flushed out. I kinda like Greg's /kernel/* suggestion. But that's an installation issue and not so much a 'how do we compile the damn things in the first place'. Here's a nutshell description of things that are in the pipeline: - config(8) is intended to mutate into a kernel+modules building tool, where you can specify what you want in the static kernel and/or modules, and which (if any) modules you want. - config(8)'s function of doing device wiring is intended to be split out into runtime-changeable configuration. If you use loader(8), then it'll be a plain text file in something like /boot/devicehints or /kernel/*/devicehints or something. The name doesn't matter at this point, but the key point is that you will be able to edit this file and reboot without having to recompile anything. Hints will also be usable by device driver modules (eg: isa drivers). *however*.. It will also be possible to take this hints or wiring file and generate a static table for compiling into a static kernel so that you can boot a single self-contained kernel without having to use loader (eg: from old netboot roms). This would be equivalent to the present config(8) style system where ioconf.c is generated and compiled in statically. - modules (remember, a kld file may contain multiple modules) have version tags embedded in them. Each module may provide dependencies on other module version tags. This resolves the problems of having dependencies moving between a static kernel and kld files, eg: the miibus module. The loader and kernel track which modules have been registered, what version id tags they have, and what the dependencies are. eg: if the kernel provides the miibus module, then the loader will not bother looking for a file containing the "miibus" module (which will usually be in miibus.ko but doesn't have to be). The versioning allows for safety checks against mismatched calls. If (for example) we made some incompatable change to the VOP_* binary interface, we could force a recompile of every module that made VOP_* calls if required and prevent people from shooting themselves in the feet. Because of the way the linker sorts and links the modules and how the dependencies determine the symbol search orders, it's not out of the question to have things like ABI "shims" - ie: two different versions of the VOP_GETATTR symbols in the same kernel and have old kld's using the old ABI via shims. Of course, actually implementing this would be hell, but it is possible :-). How much of this is done? A good deal of the module metadata (versions, dependencies etc) code is done and pretty much ready for commit. The config(8) replacement stuff has more to do still but will not take long to finish now. Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Apr 26 0:20:54 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6FCB37BBA7 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:20:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06852 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:20:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id JAA03027 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:20:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45A7C37BC69; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:18:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id QAA48023; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 16:48:25 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 16:48:24 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Cc: Chuck Robey , Robert Watson , FreeBSD Committers Subject: Re: How about building modules along with the kernel? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/modules/syscons/fire fire_saver.c src/sys/modules/syscons/rain rain_saver.c src/sys/modules/syscons/warp warp_saver.c) Message-ID: <20000426164824.D43932@freebie.lemis.com> References: <20000426124729.D40207@freebie.lemis.com> <20000425234016.D1022@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <20000425234016.D1022@dragon.nuxi.com> Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tuesday, 25 April 2000 at 23:40:16 -0700, David O'Brien wrote: > On Tue, Apr 25, 2000 at 11:48:27PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: >> Tell you what. Let the discussion carry on. If there's no movement by >> Friday, I'll stick the offer back up. I just want to insure that it >> doesn't die (again) by being stuck onto a proposal for too grand a design. > > The discussion should be moved to freebsd-arch then. > > FOLLOWS UP DIRECTED THERE. PLEASE *REMOVE* cvs-all & cvs-committers from > this thread. In theory, that's all well and good. But look what wc -l tells me: 679 cvs-all 1739 freebsd-current 481 freebsd-arch cvs-all doesn't appear to be a real mailing list, be we all know that there are about 200 people there. That means nearly 900 people on the (mutually exclusive) cvs lists, at least another 800 over in -current, less than 500 in -arch. You can't force a committer to join -arch, which is why I still prefer -committers. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Apr 26 0:42:43 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7017137B74C for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:42:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07159 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:42:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id JAA03079 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:42:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from overcee.netplex.com.au (peter1.yahoo.com [208.48.107.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB3DA37BB1A; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:41:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.netplex.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FFD31CE1; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:41:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Greg Lehey Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Chuck Robey , Robert Watson , FreeBSD Committers Subject: Re: How about building modules along with the kernel? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/modules/syscons/fire fire_saver.c src/sys/modules/syscons/rain rain_saver.c src/sys/modules/syscons/warp warp_saver.c) In-Reply-To: Message from Greg Lehey of "Wed, 26 Apr 2000 16:48:24 +0930." <20000426164824.D43932@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:41:55 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20000426074155.4FFD31CE1@overcee.netplex.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > On Tuesday, 25 April 2000 at 23:40:16 -0700, David O'Brien wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 25, 2000 at 11:48:27PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: > >> Tell you what. Let the discussion carry on. If there's no movement by > >> Friday, I'll stick the offer back up. I just want to insure that it > >> doesn't die (again) by being stuck onto a proposal for too grand a design. > > > > The discussion should be moved to freebsd-arch then. > > > > FOLLOWS UP DIRECTED THERE. PLEASE *REMOVE* cvs-all & cvs-committers from > > this thread. > > In theory, that's all well and good. But look what wc -l tells me: > > 679 cvs-all > 1739 freebsd-current > 481 freebsd-arch > > cvs-all doesn't appear to be a real mailing list, be we all know that > there are about 200 people there. That means nearly 900 people on the > (mutually exclusive) cvs lists, at least another 800 over in -current, > less than 500 in -arch. You can't force a committer to join -arch, > which is why I still prefer -committers. cvs-all is the majordomo public list. cvs-committers is a synthetic list where the recipients are generated from CVSROOT/access on the fly for each message. Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Apr 26 2: 7:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EEEB37B791 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 02:07:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08381 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:07:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id LAA03256 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:07:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.ddg.com (eunuch.ddg.com [216.30.58.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DF3C37B569; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 02:07:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from nomad.dataplex.net (24.28.73.209) by mail.ddg.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1); Wed, 26 Apr 2000 04:07:06 -0500 From: Richard Wackerbarth To: obrien@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How about building modules along with the kernel? Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 04:07:05 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.1.41] Content-Type: text/plain Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org References: <20000426102521.C38026@freebie.lemis.com> <20000426075649.B75904@lucifer.bart.nl> <20000425234135.E1022@dragon.nuxi.com> In-Reply-To: <20000425234135.E1022@dragon.nuxi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00042604070501.06932@nomad.dataplex.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 26 Apr 2000, David O'Brien wrote: > On Wed, Apr 26, 2000 at 07:56:49AM +0200, Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven wrote: > > >X. Install the kernel and its modules in a subdirectory. I'd suggest > > > we call the subdirectory /kernel/, so we can rename the > > > subdirectories on install the way we currently rename the kernel > > > itself. What do we call the kernel? How about /kernel/FreeBSD? > > > > What's wrong with installing kernel in / and the modules under /modules? > > What modules do you use if you need to boot "kernel.old"? That is a > problem. How about "modules.old"? One thing that bothers me about the direction that I see is that we are getting away from the symplicity of the loader just reading a few sectors from the boot device. As we get more and more complex, the loader must understand more about the underlying file system. This makes it more complicated and less portable to alternate configurations. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Apr 26 2:10:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADBFC37BD35 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 02:10:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08414 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:10:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id LAA03278 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:10:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0417E37BB6A; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 02:09:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (doconnor@cain [203.38.152.97]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA13010; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 18:39:35 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <00042604070501.06932@nomad.dataplex.net> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 18:39:34 +0930 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: How about building modules along with the kernel? Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, obrien@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 26-Apr-00 Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > One thing that bothers me about the direction that I see is that we are > getting > away from the symplicity of the loader just reading a few sectors from the > boot > device. As we get more and more complex, the loader must understand more > about > the underlying file system. This makes it more complicated and less portable > to > alternate configurations. The loader can (and does) already read UFS.. It can read files in and load them into arbitarily named sections in the kernel, and other good things :) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Apr 26 2:14:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8354C37B8AA for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 02:14:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08463 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:14:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id LAA03297 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:14:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.ddg.com (eunuch.ddg.com [216.30.58.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78A9A37B860 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 02:13:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from nomad.dataplex.net (24.28.73.209) by mail.ddg.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1); Wed, 26 Apr 2000 04:13:08 -0500 From: Richard Wackerbarth To: "Daniel O'Connor" Subject: Re: How about building modules along with the kernel? Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 04:13:06 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.1.41] Content-Type: text/plain Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00042604130602.06932@nomad.dataplex.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 26 Apr 2000, Daniel O'Connor wrote: > The loader can (and does) already read UFS.. > > It can read files in and load them into arbitarily named sections in the > kernel, and other good things :) But what about JFS, E2FS, KFS, etc. ? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Apr 26 2:17:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16C0F37B765 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 02:17:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08492 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:16:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id LAA03320 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:16:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D785237B806 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 02:14:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (doconnor@cain [203.38.152.97]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA13083; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 18:44:34 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <00042604130602.06932@nomad.dataplex.net> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 18:44:33 +0930 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: How about building modules along with the kernel? Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 26-Apr-00 Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > On Wed, 26 Apr 2000, Daniel O'Connor wrote: > > The loader can (and does) already read UFS.. > > It can read files in and load them into arbitarily named sections in the > > kernel, and other good things :) > But what about JFS, E2FS, KFS, etc. ? You teach the loader to grok them. Like NFS, and MSDOSFS, ISO9660 etc.. --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Apr 26 3:27:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D81037B8C3 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 03:27:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09400 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:27:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id MAA03452 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:27:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from luna.worldonline.nl (luna.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D675937B72A for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 03:26:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeroen@vangelderen.org) Received: from vangelderen.org (vp210-15.worldonline.nl [195.241.210.15]) by luna.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA08972; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:26:30 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <3906C448.825BAD84@vangelderen.org> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 06:26:16 -0400 From: "Jeroen C. van Gelderen" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How about building modules along with the kernel? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/modules/syscons/fire fire_saver.c src/sys/modules/syscons/rain rain_saver.c src/sys/modules/syscons/warp warp_saver.c) References: <20000426124729.D40207@freebie.lemis.com> <20000425234016.D1022@dragon.nuxi.com> <20000426164824.D43932@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > FOLLOWS UP DIRECTED THERE. PLEASE *REMOVE* cvs-all & cvs-committers from > > this thread. [...] > cvs-all doesn't appear to be a real mailing list, be we all know that > there are about 200 people there. That means nearly 900 people on the > (mutually exclusive) cvs lists, at least another 800 over in -current, > less than 500 in -arch. You can't force a committer to join -arch, > which is why I still prefer -committers. Correct me if I'm wrong but I have the feeling that architectural discussions are off-topic on -commits and perfectly on-topic on -arch. I have to admit that I seem unable to find a list charter for -commits but it seems unlikely that it would be the same as the charter for -arch. You surely aren't saying that you want people to post to the wrong list just because you don't feel like joining -arch? Nobody is forcing you to join -arch, but you have to if you want to have "Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture" . Keep in mind that by having architectural discussions on -commits you are annoying people that are just interested in commit msgs. Or maybe the various charters need revision? Cheers, Jeroen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Apr 26 3:29:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4811837B90E for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 03:29:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09425 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:29:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id MAA03466 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:29:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3239437BC1D; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 03:28:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (p19-dn02kiryunisiki.gunma.ocn.ne.jp [211.0.245.84]) by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN/) with ESMTP id TAA13680; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 19:28:12 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <3906C526.A9F3EF02@newsguy.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 19:29:59 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Daniel O'Connor" Cc: Richard Wackerbarth , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, obrien@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How about building modules along with the kernel? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Daniel O'Connor wrote: > > On 26-Apr-00 Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > > One thing that bothers me about the direction that I see is that we are > > getting > > away from the symplicity of the loader just reading a few sectors from the > > boot > > device. As we get more and more complex, the loader must understand more > > about > > the underlying file system. This makes it more complicated and less portable > > to > > alternate configurations. > > The loader can (and does) already read UFS.. > > It can read files in and load them into arbitarily named sections in the > kernel, and other good things :) BTW, loader reads FAT just fine too, thank you. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org dcs@there.is.no.such.thing.as.a.bsdconspiracy.net GPL certainly doesn't meet Janis Joplin's definition of freedom: "Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Apr 26 3:32:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DAE237B673 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 03:32:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09459 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:32:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id MAA03484 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:32:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BE7037B782 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 03:32:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (p19-dn02kiryunisiki.gunma.ocn.ne.jp [211.0.245.84]) by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN/) with ESMTP id TAA14781; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 19:32:08 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <3906C612.4B28FE2@newsguy.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 19:33:54 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Richard Wackerbarth Cc: "Daniel O'Connor" , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How about building modules along with the kernel? References: <00042604130602.06932@nomad.dataplex.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > > On Wed, 26 Apr 2000, Daniel O'Connor wrote: > > > The loader can (and does) already read UFS.. > > > > It can read files in and load them into arbitarily named sections in the > > kernel, and other good things :) > > But what about JFS, E2FS, KFS, etc. ? With the exception of E2FS, we don't even support them. And we have never supported booting from E2FS either. Whatever loads the kernel, it must know enough of the fs to be able to read the kernel. Otherwise, we would end up with something like older versions of DOS, which required the boot files to be the first files in the fs, as well as having a contiguous allocation. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org dcs@there.is.no.such.thing.as.a.bsdconspiracy.net GPL certainly doesn't meet Janis Joplin's definition of freedom: "Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Apr 26 4:14:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49CED37B896 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 04:14:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10092 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 13:14:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id NAA03534 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 13:14:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mailgate.originative.co.uk (mailgate.originative.co.uk [194.217.50.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4717137B90E; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 04:13:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@originative.co.uk) Received: from originative.co.uk (lobster.originative.co.uk [194.217.50.241]) by mailgate.originative.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B09C1D15F; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:13:56 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3906CF74.1AEBFD09@originative.co.uk> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:13:56 +0100 From: "Paul Richards.width" Organization: Originative Solutions Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en-GB, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Chuck Robey , Robert Watson , FreeBSD Committers Subject: Re: How about building modules along with the kernel? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/modules/syscons/fire fire_saver.c src/sys/modules/syscons/rain rain_saver.c src/sys/modules/syscons/warp warp_saver.c) References: <20000426124729.D40207@freebie.lemis.com> <20000425234016.D1022@dragon.nuxi.com> <20000426164824.D43932@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > > On Tuesday, 25 April 2000 at 23:40:16 -0700, David O'Brien wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 25, 2000 at 11:48:27PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: > >> Tell you what. Let the discussion carry on. If there's no movement by > >> Friday, I'll stick the offer back up. I just want to insure that it > >> doesn't die (again) by being stuck onto a proposal for too grand a design. > > > > The discussion should be moved to freebsd-arch then. > > > > FOLLOWS UP DIRECTED THERE. PLEASE *REMOVE* cvs-all & cvs-committers from > > this thread. > > In theory, that's all well and good. But look what wc -l tells me: > > 679 cvs-all > 1739 freebsd-current > 481 freebsd-arch > > cvs-all doesn't appear to be a real mailing list, be we all know that > there are about 200 people there. That means nearly 900 people on the > (mutually exclusive) cvs lists, at least another 800 over in -current, > less than 500 in -arch. You can't force a committer to join -arch, > which is why I still prefer -committers. But the reason that not all committers join arch is because not all committers are "arch" hackers. The committers list includes ports people and docs people. The -arch list is the correct place for this discussion and the sort of people interested in it will be over there. There used to be (still is but everyone ignores it) a policy that discussions should not take place on any committers lists because they are for the notification of commits and nothing more. There are a myriad other lists for holding technical discussions. Paul. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Apr 26 7:42:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2830F37B7F0 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 07:42:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07954 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 16:42:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id QAA04028 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 16:42:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B6BB37BB76 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 07:42:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA32536; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:41:36 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:41:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: "Jeroen C. van Gelderen" Cc: Greg Lehey , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How about building modules along with the kernel? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/modules/syscons/fire fire_saver.c src/sys/modules/syscons/rain rain_saver.c src/sys/modules/syscons/warp warp_saver.c) In-Reply-To: <3906C448.825BAD84@vangelderen.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 26 Apr 2000, Jeroen C. van Gelderen wrote: > Correct me if I'm wrong but I have the feeling that architectural > discussions are off-topic on -commits and perfectly on-topic on > -arch. I have to admit that I seem unable to find a list charter > for -commits but it seems unlikely that it would be the same as > the charter for -arch. I feel very uncomfortable with the idea that serious architectural discussions would occur only on -committers, which is a closed mailing list. Not everyone who has a stake in the FreeBSD kernel environment is a committer, and there's no reason they should have to be. Also, there are many people who are neither developers nor committers yet have much to contribute in terms of requirements and implementation experience on other platforms. I don't think it's a problem right now, but let's keep real discussions on public lists, where everyone can benefit from them, and where we can benefit from open discussion. Robert N M Watson robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: AF B5 5F FF A6 4A 79 37 ED 5F 55 E9 58 04 6A B1 TIS Labs at Network Associates, Safeport Network Services To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Apr 26 11:42:56 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4949537B9B7 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:42:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14639 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 20:42:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id UAA04703 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 20:42:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10C9837B96D for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:40:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA20532; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:40:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAvNa44N; Wed Apr 26 11:40:10 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA06879; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:40:14 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200004261840.LAA06879@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: How about building modules along with the kernel? To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 18:40:13 +0000 (GMT) Cc: doconnor@gsoft.com.au (Daniel O'Connor), freebsd-arch@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <00042604130602.06932@nomad.dataplex.net> from "Richard Wackerbarth" at Apr 26, 2000 04:13:06 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > The loader can (and does) already read UFS.. > > > > It can read files in and load them into arbitarily named sections in the > > kernel, and other good things :) > > But what about JFS, E2FS, KFS, etc. ? Historical UNIX implementations have handled this with a flat filesystem, usually called "stand", where the kernel and any modules needed to access the locally instantiated filesystem implementations are installed. NT's boot loader approaches this the same way, though their "stand" is actually a FAT partition. At this point, it might be just as easy to use "FAT" for this, since many architectures have a requirement for FAT support anyway, or minimally, DOS partitioning. Both the PReP and Open Firmware, as well as the Alpha ARC BIOS, have these requirements for example. In general, one might consider an ELF section archiver, which can modify an ELF module to include support for any filesystem module of your choice, at boot and kernel installation time; this kind of assumes the ability to bootstrap to an ELF module. Some older systems, and some current Linux systems, and NetBSD, at least at one time, used knowledge of the linear sector address of kernel sectors, in order to load the kernel from wherever it happened to be stored, completely ignoring the filesystem format. This seems less flexible than the "stand" approach. NB: "stand" does not mean "/stand", it means a seperate partition set aside for the boot loader, which the boot loader would always be able to understand, regardless of what you did to the format of the rest of the disk. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Apr 26 17:13:36 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6EEA37BC85 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:13:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA18573 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 02:13:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id CAA05654 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 02:13:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63CB537BA73; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:12:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id JAA54956; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 09:42:23 +0930 (CST) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 09:42:23 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "Paul Richards.width" Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Chuck Robey , Robert Watson , FreeBSD Committers Subject: Where to discuss architectural issues (was: How about building modules along with the kernel? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/modules/syscons/fire fire_saver.c src/sys/modules/syscons/rain rain_saver.c src/sys/modules/syscons/warp warp_saver.c)) Message-ID: <20000427094223.F43932@freebie.lemis.com> References: <20000426124729.D40207@freebie.lemis.com> <20000425234016.D1022@dragon.nuxi.com> <20000426164824.D43932@freebie.lemis.com> <3906CF74.1AEBFD09@originative.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <3906CF74.1AEBFD09@originative.co.uk> Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 26 April 2000 at 12:13:56 +0100, Paul Richards.width wrote: Richards.width? > Greg Lehey wrote: >> >> On Tuesday, 25 April 2000 at 23:40:16 -0700, David O'Brien wrote: >>> On Tue, Apr 25, 2000 at 11:48:27PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: >>>> Tell you what. Let the discussion carry on. If there's no movement by >>>> Friday, I'll stick the offer back up. I just want to insure that it >>>> doesn't die (again) by being stuck onto a proposal for too grand a design. >>> >>> The discussion should be moved to freebsd-arch then. >>> >>> FOLLOWS UP DIRECTED THERE. PLEASE *REMOVE* cvs-all & cvs-committers from >>> this thread. >> >> In theory, that's all well and good. But look what wc -l tells me: >> >> 679 cvs-all >> 1739 freebsd-current >> 481 freebsd-arch >> >> cvs-all doesn't appear to be a real mailing list, be we all know that >> there are about 200 people there. That means nearly 900 people on the >> (mutually exclusive) cvs lists, at least another 800 over in -current, >> less than 500 in -arch. You can't force a committer to join -arch, >> which is why I still prefer -committers. > > But the reason that not all committers join arch is because not all > committers are "arch" hackers. That's one reason. Another is inertia. > There used to be (still is but everyone ignores it) a policy that > discussions should not take place on any committers lists because > they are for the notification of commits and nothing more. There are > a myriad other lists for holding technical discussions. Agreed. But I still think we're missing something. It wasn't that long ago that we did that sort of thing on -hackers, which has suffered too much bloat to be useful any more. I once discussed a change on -hackers, at a time when -arch was a shadow of a list, and then committed, to be immediately asked to remove the fix again because people on -committers didn't want it. That was when we decided to put this kind of discussion on -arch. I think -arch is the right place. I'd just like to make sure that -committers doesn't get left out, and the best way I can think of to do that is to add -committers to the -arch list. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Apr 26 22:25: 6 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C639D37B528 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 22:25:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21730 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 07:25:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id HAA06080 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 07:25:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C5C937B528; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 22:24:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA93185; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:24:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id XAA50106; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:23:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200004270523.XAA50106@harmony.village.org> To: Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Where to discuss architectural issues (was: How about building modules along with the kernel? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/modules/syscons/fire fire_saver.c src/sys/modules/syscons/rain rain_saver.c src/sys/modules/syscons/warp warp_saver.c)) Cc: "Paul Richards.width" , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Chuck Robey , Robert Watson , FreeBSD Committers In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Apr 2000 09:42:23 +0930." <20000427094223.F43932@freebie.lemis.com> References: <20000427094223.F43932@freebie.lemis.com> <20000426124729.D40207@freebie.lemis.com> <20000425234016.D1022@dragon.nuxi.com> <20000426164824.D43932@freebie.lemis.com> <3906CF74.1AEBFD09@originative.co.uk> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:23:36 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20000427094223.F43932@freebie.lemis.com> Greg Lehey writes: : I think -arch is the right place. I'd just like to make sure that : -committers doesn't get left out, and the best way I can think of to : do that is to add -committers to the -arch list. No. Don't add commiters to -arch. Many of them are people that just do ports or don't care about global issues. If they did care, they should subscribe to -arch. -arch is the right place. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Apr 26 22:30:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57CAC37BE58 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 22:30:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21805 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 07:30:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id HAA06108 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 07:30:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6647237B647; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 22:29:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA93215; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:29:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id XAA50165; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:28:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200004270528.XAA50165@harmony.village.org> To: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: MACHINE_CPU Cc: arch@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:04:52 PDT." References: Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:28:39 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message Kris Kennaway writes: : I want to enable support for CPU-specific assembler code in things like : libgmp, openssl, etc, which requires knowledge of the target CPU type (not : just the architecture). For example, OpenSSL only includes asm code for : pentium and above, so we can't just build it if MACHINE_ARCH == "i386". : : The obvious way to do this is to add a MACHINE_CPU to sys.mk and add a : shadow TARGET_CPU in Makefile.inc1. Any objections to this approach? Don't call it MACHINE_CPU. That's a bad name. In the MIPS world there are dozens of CPUs that all implement the same ISA. I'd be more inclined to call it {MACHINE,TARGET}_ISA. After all, it is supposed to connote a level along a continuum of CPUs that are produced by one or more vendors. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Apr 26 22:38:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2677237B748 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 22:38:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21942 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 07:38:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id HAA06137 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 07:38:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE52C37BE52 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 22:35:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA93237 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:35:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id XAA50202 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:34:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200004270534.XAA50202@harmony.village.org> To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How about building modules along with the kernel? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/modules/syscons/fire fire_saver.c src/sys/modules/syscons/rain rain_saver.c src/sys/modules/syscons/warp warp_saver.c) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:02:20 PDT." <20000426070220.22F3F1CE1@overcee.netplex.com.au> References: <20000426070220.22F3F1CE1@overcee.netplex.com.au> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:34:05 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20000426070220.22F3F1CE1@overcee.netplex.com.au> Peter Wemm writes: : - config(8)'s function of doing device wiring is intended to be split out : into runtime-changeable configuration. If you use loader(8), then it'll be : a plain text file in something like /boot/devicehints or /kernel/*/devicehints : or something. The name doesn't matter at this point, but the key point is that : you will be able to edit this file and reboot without having to recompile : anything. Hints will also be usable by device driver modules (eg: isa : drivers). *however*.. It will also be possible to take this hints or : wiring file and generate a static table for compiling into a static kernel : so that you can boot a single self-contained kernel without having to use : loader (eg: from old netboot roms). This would be equivalent to the present : config(8) style system where ioconf.c is generated and compiled in statically. I kinda sorta like this. I'd like to see more details on this. I have been working in the area (see the hints driver that I wrote) to do the wiring. The static config stuff needs to be at a level so that things may be excluded from the probe as well as included. I also feel strongly that these things should all have approx the same form and such so that as much as possible can be parsed in common. I'd like to see the driver just request their foobar hint and have it be provided for them. I don't care if this is done via a mechanism that can dynamically frow a hintsdatabase or not, but I think that it would be useful if it could. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Apr 26 22:51:56 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7673C37BD43 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 22:51:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22083 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 07:51:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id HAA06161 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 07:51:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4B1C37B80A for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 22:50:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA93274 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:50:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id XAA50319 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:49:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200004270549.XAA50319@harmony.village.org> Subject: Re: How about building modules along with the kernel? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/modules/syscons/fire fire_saver.c src/sys/modules/syscons/rain rain_saver.c src/sys/modules/syscons/warp warp_saver.c) Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:34:05 MDT." <200004270534.XAA50202@harmony.village.org> References: <200004270534.XAA50202@harmony.village.org> <20000426070220.22F3F1CE1@overcee.netplex.com.au> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:49:36 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I neglected to add that I have code now that I'd be willing to hammer into good shape here. The module loading thing has been a real thorn in my side for a long time now... Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Apr 27 0:17:36 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 465B337BE52 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 00:17:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23330 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 09:17:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id JAA00207 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 09:17:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mass.cdrom.com (adsl-63-202-176-132.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.202.176.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25ED037B5A0 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:21:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Received: from mass.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00679; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:29:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <200004270629.XAA00679@mass.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Terry Lambert Cc: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth), doconnor@gsoft.com.au (Daniel O'Connor), freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How about building modules along with the kernel? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Apr 2000 18:40:13 -0000." <200004261840.LAA06879@usr09.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:29:10 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > The loader can (and does) already read UFS.. > > > > > > It can read files in and load them into arbitarily named sections in the > > > kernel, and other good things :) > > > > But what about JFS, E2FS, KFS, etc. ? > > Historical UNIX implementations have handled this with a > flat filesystem, usually called "stand", where the kernel and > any modules needed to access the locally instantiated filesystem > implementations are installed. > > NT's boot loader approaches this the same way, though their > "stand" is actually a FAT partition. We have this already; it's called /, and the format is UFS. If you want to get really anal, change the module search path to include somewhere under /boot, and make that a FAT filesystem (we support those as well). The reason that these other systems use a separate filesystem of a simpler type is that their bootloaders are _lame_. Ours isn't, and it doesn't need a new filesystem type just to cater to its' braindeath. Either use FAT or UFS, or teach the loader (libstand) about your new filesystem types. If you're going to implement a filesystem for FreeBSD, writing loader support for it is just about the most trivial part - probably on par with the manpage. -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Apr 27 2:48:56 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC62437B551 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 02:48:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25596 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:48:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id LAA00397 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:48:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mailgate.originative.co.uk (mailgate.originative.co.uk [194.217.50.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C35FB37B5D7; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 02:48:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@originative.co.uk) Received: from originative.co.uk (lobster.originative.co.uk [194.217.50.241]) by mailgate.originative.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id B08C51D15F; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 10:48:19 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <39080CE3.FC151E08@originative.co.uk> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 10:48:19 +0100 From: "Paul Richards.width" Organization: Originative Solutions Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en-GB, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Chuck Robey , Robert Watson , FreeBSD Committers Subject: Re: Where to discuss architectural issues (was: How about building modules along with the kernel? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/modules/syscons/fire fire_saver.c src/sys/modules/syscons/rain rain_saver.c src/sys/modules/syscons/warp warp_saver.c)) References: <20000426124729.D40207@freebie.lemis.com> <20000425234016.D1022@dragon.nuxi.com> <20000426164824.D43932@freebie.lemis.com> <3906CF74.1AEBFD09@originative.co.uk> <20000427094223.F43932@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > > On Wednesday, 26 April 2000 at 12:13:56 +0100, Paul Richards.width wrote: > > Richards.width? > Something's screwed with Netscape, it looks like it's not recognising the end of the string, sometimes it puts garbage after my name. I could really do with a reliable mailer but I need something more than Mutt because I get a lot of business mail aimed at Outlook users and Mutt is too painful for non-text mail. I've been trying out Netscape for the last few months and it's one of the worst pieces of software I've ever used on a Unix platform :-( > > Greg Lehey wrote: > >> > >> On Tuesday, 25 April 2000 at 23:40:16 -0700, David O'Brien wrote: > >>> On Tue, Apr 25, 2000 at 11:48:27PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: > >>>> Tell you what. Let the discussion carry on. If there's no movement by > >>>> Friday, I'll stick the offer back up. I just want to insure that it > >>>> doesn't die (again) by being stuck onto a proposal for too grand a design. > >>> > >>> The discussion should be moved to freebsd-arch then. > >>> > >>> FOLLOWS UP DIRECTED THERE. PLEASE *REMOVE* cvs-all & cvs-committers from > >>> this thread. > >> > >> In theory, that's all well and good. But look what wc -l tells me: > >> > >> 679 cvs-all > >> 1739 freebsd-current > >> 481 freebsd-arch > >> > >> cvs-all doesn't appear to be a real mailing list, be we all know that > >> there are about 200 people there. That means nearly 900 people on the > >> (mutually exclusive) cvs lists, at least another 800 over in -current, > >> less than 500 in -arch. You can't force a committer to join -arch, > >> which is why I still prefer -committers. > > > > But the reason that not all committers join arch is because not all > > committers are "arch" hackers. > > That's one reason. Another is inertia. > > > There used to be (still is but everyone ignores it) a policy that > > discussions should not take place on any committers lists because > > they are for the notification of commits and nothing more. There are > > a myriad other lists for holding technical discussions. > > Agreed. But I still think we're missing something. It wasn't that > long ago that we did that sort of thing on -hackers, which has > suffered too much bloat to be useful any more. I once discussed a > change on -hackers, at a time when -arch was a shadow of a list, and > then committed, to be immediately asked to remove the fix again > because people on -committers didn't want it. That was when we > decided to put this kind of discussion on -arch. > > I think -arch is the right place. I'd just like to make sure that > -committers doesn't get left out, and the best way I can think of to > do that is to add -committers to the -arch list. I think we should be more vigilant about these things or the lists are going to become worthless. It's already getting hard to keep up with all the important discussions because they're scattered amongst too many places. I think there needs to be a clear distinction between developer lists and support lists. At the moment, the specialist lists, such as net or scsi, are acting as catchall lists for those technical areas and if you want to see the development discussions you have to weed them out of the much more voluminous support discussions. When time is short I'd like to keep up with the technical discussions first and deal with support questions later. Personally, I think all technical discussion should move to arch so that all the active developers can see what's going on in other parts of the system. The argument that e.g. the SCSI developers want somewhere peaceful to thrash out their ideas first doesn't really hold much water because unless they have a closed list their "peaceful place" rapidly becomes another noisy support forum and as soon as the development is committed they face the same barrage of questions from committers as they would have done anyway so they may as well have discussed the issues in arch in the first place. There's also some unecessary fragmentation and duplication. For instance, the issue of cross-compilation affects a lot of people but it's being discussed separately on the sparc list, the ppc list and the committers list. These are the problems of growth but they're becoming very real and need to be thought about. Paul. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Apr 27 7:40:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E285237B8F5 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 07:40:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25698 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:40:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id QAA00751 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:40:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FDAE37B5DE; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 07:18:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA63747; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:17:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) To: chris@calldei.com Cc: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven , Peter Wemm , Warner Losh , Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami , Poul-Henning Kamp , Brian Somers , "David E. O'Brien" , cvs-committers@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/contrib/tcsh - Imported sources References: <20000415231805.33B311CD7@overcee.netplex.com.au> <20000416024118.A71475@lucifer.bart.nl> <20000415203009.B99830@holly.calldei.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 27 Apr 2000 16:17:29 +0200 In-Reply-To: Chris Costello's message of "Sat, 15 Apr 2000 20:30:09 -0500" Message-ID: Lines: 13 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chris Costello writes: > When will you rewrite vgrind(1) vgrind(1) does not use any magic constructs specific to csh, and rewriting it for sh should be a) trivial and b) an improvement, since the current code needs to work around bugs and misfeatures in csh. Further improvements and simplifications can be made by using getopt(1) instead of the current option-parsing hack. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Apr 27 10:56:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E27637B53C for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 10:56:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01953 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 19:56:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id TAA01263 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 19:56:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com (bubba.whistle.com [207.76.205.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8E5137B798 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 10:54:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id KAA66171 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 10:54:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <200004271754.KAA66171@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: ASCII <--> binary conversion in the kernel To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 10:54:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, In developing netgraph we came up with a way to easily convert an arbitrary C structure, even one with variable length array fields, into a human readable ASCII string and back, all farily efficiently from within the kernel. The code that does this is completely indepedent from the rest of netgraph and lives in these files: /usr/src/sys/netgraph/ng_parse.h /usr/src/sys/netgraph/ng_parse.c It occurred to me that this capability might be useful in other parts of the kernel, e.g., "device hints" structures, KLD module initialization files, sysctl, etc. It's not even limited to C structures; it can convert any structured binary data to ASCII and back. Just wanted to give people a heads-up in case anyone is looking for such a thing. We've found it pretty handy. For details, see: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/sys/netgraph/ng_parse.h?rev=1.3 -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Apr 27 10:58:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5DBD37BED7 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 10:58:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01985 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 19:58:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id TAA01293 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 19:58:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com (bubba.whistle.com [207.76.205.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B68A37B8BA; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 10:58:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id KAA66218; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 10:58:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <200004271758.KAA66218@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: limits.h and styles; ANSIfication In-Reply-To: <20000424125408.A13576@dragon.nuxi.com> from "David O'Brien" at "Apr 24, 2000 12:54:09 pm" To: obrien@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 10:58:01 -0700 (PDT) Cc: green@freebsd.org (Brian Fundakowski Feldman), arch@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David O'Brien writes: > > http://people.FreeBSD.org/~green/limits.patch > > Why are you removing the ()'s from the macros? They are there to protect > the expansion and should stay. You don't need paretheses when C cannot possibly parse it any other way.. eg "0xffff" is always the same as "(0xffff)" in C. It seems to me the paretheses were there previously to protect the "-1" part. As for #define QUAD_MIN (LONG_MIN) they're also unnecessary, inductively assuming the #definition of LONG_MIN is itself suitably protected. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Apr 27 11: 0:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBE4737B541 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:00:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02007 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 19:59:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id TAA01313 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 19:59:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3B9F37B96A; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 10:58:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA64581; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 19:58:17 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) To: chris@calldei.com Cc: cvs-committers@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/contrib/tcsh - Imported sources References: <20000415231805.33B311CD7@overcee.netplex.com.au> <20000416024118.A71475@lucifer.bart.nl> <20000415203009.B99830@holly.calldei.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 27 Apr 2000 19:58:17 +0200 In-Reply-To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav's message of "27 Apr 2000 16:17:29 +0200" Message-ID: Lines: 20 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > vgrind(1) does not use any magic constructs specific to csh, and > rewriting it for sh should be a) trivial and b) an improvement, since > the current code needs to work around bugs and misfeatures in csh. > > Further improvements and simplifications can be made by using > getopt(1) instead of the current option-parsing hack. In fact, I'd do it right here and now, except I can't get (unmodified) vgrind(1) to work at all: des@des ~% vgrind src/test.c /usr/share/tmac/tmac.safer:3: error: end of file while defining macro `un' /usr/share/tmac/tmac.safer:3: error: end of file while defining macro `un' des@des ~% uname -a FreeBSD des.follo.net 4.0-STABLE FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE #5: Sat Mar 25 22:53:09 CET 2000 des@des.follo.net:/usr/src/sys/compile/DES i386 DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Apr 27 11:23: 2 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAE7237B7C2 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:22:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02269 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 20:22:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id UAA01357 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 20:22:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 186B637BB40; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:22:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (root@c02-166.006.popsite.net [216.126.135.166]) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA54064; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:21:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA35028; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:21:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:21:17 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Archie Cobbs Cc: Brian Fundakowski Feldman , arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: limits.h and styles; ANSIfication Message-ID: <20000427112117.A35003@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@freebsd.org References: <20000424125408.A13576@dragon.nuxi.com> <200004271758.KAA66218@bubba.whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <200004271758.KAA66218@bubba.whistle.com>; from archie@whistle.com on Thu, Apr 27, 2000 at 10:58:01AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Apr 27, 2000 at 10:58:01AM -0700, Archie Cobbs wrote: > > Why are you removing the ()'s from the macros? They are there to protect > > the expansion and should stay. > > You don't need paretheses when C cannot possibly parse it any > other way.. eg "0xffff" is always the same as "(0xffff)" in C. Yes. BUT it is a good habit to be in to protect macro expansion. I've seen too many times where the macho programmer "knew" where ()'s were needed and where they weren't. > they're also unnecessary, inductively assuming the #definition of And we all know what "assume" stands for. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Apr 27 12:25:55 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A87637B590 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 12:25:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02909 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 21:25:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id VAA01505 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 21:25:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from gidora.zeta.org.au (gidora.zeta.org.au [203.26.10.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AB50037BAA7 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 12:23:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bde@zeta.org.au) Received: (qmail 15797 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2000 19:23:32 -0000 Received: from bde.zeta.org.au (203.2.228.102) by gidora.zeta.org.au with SMTP; 27 Apr 2000 19:23:32 -0000 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 05:23:28 +1000 (EST) From: Bruce Evans X-Sender: bde@alphplex.bde.org To: Archie Cobbs Cc: obrien@freebsd.org, Brian Fundakowski Feldman , arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: limits.h and styles; ANSIfication In-Reply-To: <200004271758.KAA66218@bubba.whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, Archie Cobbs wrote: > David O'Brien writes: > > > http://people.FreeBSD.org/~green/limits.patch > > > > Why are you removing the ()'s from the macros? They are there to protect > > the expansion and should stay. > > You don't need paretheses when C cannot possibly parse it any > other way.. eg "0xffff" is always the same as "(0xffff)" in C. > > It seems to me the paretheses were there previously to protect > the "-1" part. The -1 part is necessary to give the correct type. Parentheses are also necessary to protect unary minus in some contexts, e.g., -1["foo"] is the negation of the character at offset 1 in "foo", while (-1)["foo"] is the character at the (invalid) offset -1 in "foo". > As for > > #define QUAD_MIN (LONG_MIN) > > they're also unnecessary, inductively assuming the #definition of > LONG_MIN is itself suitably protected. I agree, but I can't see how to define QUAD_MIN correctly without using paretheses :-). The above gives it the wrong type (long instead of quad_t). Bruce To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Apr 27 18:16:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9CC937BC03 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:16:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA06506 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 03:16:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id DAA02570 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 03:16:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from point.osg.gov.bc.ca (point.osg.gov.bc.ca [142.32.102.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EDFC37B5A9; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:13:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by point.osg.gov.bc.ca (8.8.7/8.8.8) id SAA09370; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:12:18 -0700 Received: from passer.osg.gov.bc.ca(142.32.110.29) via SMTP by point.osg.gov.bc.ca, id smtpda09368; Thu Apr 27 18:12:06 2000 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by passer.osg.gov.bc.ca (8.9.3/8.9.1) id SAA07709; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:12:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cwsys9.cwsent.com(10.2.2.1), claiming to be "cwsys.cwsent.com" via SMTP by passer9.cwsent.com, id smtpdrS7707; Thu Apr 27 18:11:46 2000 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by cwsys.cwsent.com (8.10.1/8.9.1) id e3S1Bil36893; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200004280111.e3S1Bil36893@cwsys.cwsent.com> Received: from localhost.cwsent.com(127.0.0.1), claiming to be "cwsys" via SMTP by localhost.cwsent.com, id smtpdS36885; Thu Apr 27 18:11:43 2000 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 Reply-To: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group From: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group X-OS: FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE X-Sender: cy To: "Paul Richards.width" Cc: Greg Lehey , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Chuck Robey , Robert Watson , FreeBSD Committers Subject: Re: How about building modules along with the kernel? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/modules/syscons/fire fire_saver.c src/sys/modules/syscons/rain rain_saver.c src/sys/modules/syscons/warp warp_saver.c) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:13:56 BST." <3906CF74.1AEBFD09@originative.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:11:43 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <3906CF74.1AEBFD09@originative.co.uk>, "Paul Richards.width" writes: > Greg Lehey wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, 25 April 2000 at 23:40:16 -0700, David O'Brien wrote: > > > On Tue, Apr 25, 2000 at 11:48:27PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: > > >> Tell you what. Let the discussion carry on. If there's no movement by > > >> Friday, I'll stick the offer back up. I just want to insure that it > > >> doesn't die (again) by being stuck onto a proposal for too grand a desig > n. > > > > > > The discussion should be moved to freebsd-arch then. > > > > > > FOLLOWS UP DIRECTED THERE. PLEASE *REMOVE* cvs-all & cvs-committers from > > > this thread. > > > > In theory, that's all well and good. But look what wc -l tells me: > > > > 679 cvs-all > > 1739 freebsd-current > > 481 freebsd-arch > > > > cvs-all doesn't appear to be a real mailing list, be we all know that > > there are about 200 people there. That means nearly 900 people on the > > (mutually exclusive) cvs lists, at least another 800 over in -current, > > less than 500 in -arch. You can't force a committer to join -arch, > > which is why I still prefer -committers. > > But the reason that not all committers join arch is because not all > committers are "arch" hackers. The committers list includes ports people > and docs people. The -arch list is the correct place for this discussion > and the sort of people interested in it will be over there. > > There used to be (still is but everyone ignores it) a policy that > discussions should not take place on any committers lists because they > are for the notification of commits and nothing more. There are a myriad > other lists for holding technical discussions. Two points: 1. If architectural discussions take place on -committers, non-committers should be allowed to join and contribute. 2. Mailing lists like the Tru64-UNIX list disallow replies. You can ask a question and can send a summary of private replies. I belive all they do is key on "re:" in the subject line. Would this be an option for -committers? Regards, Phone: (250)387-8437 Cy Schubert Fax: (250)387-5766 Team Leader, Sun/DEC Team Internet: Cy.Schubert@osg.gov.bc.ca Open Systems Group, ITSD, ISTA Province of BC To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Apr 28 10:16:40 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFF9437B8FD for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 10:16:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19951 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 19:16:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id TAA03875 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 19:16:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com (bubba.whistle.com [207.76.205.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A299E37B5FC for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 10:14:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id KAA73019 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 10:14:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <200004281714.KAA73019@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: timeout(9) question To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 10:14:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Question: Why doesn't the timeout(9) routine call the handler function at the same spl level that the timeout was registered? The way it works now, it seems like there's an unavoidable race condition. Suppose you have malloc()'d some struct foo and registered a timeout and your foo_* routines all run at splnet(). Here is the shutdown routine: /* called at splnet() */ void foo_shutdown(struct foo *f) { untimeout(foo_timeout, f, f->callout); free(f); } Now consider foo_timeout(): void foo_timeout(void *arg) { struct foo *f = arg; int s; s = splnet(); ..do whatever.. splx(s); } How do we know that someone didn't call foo_shutdown() between the time that the timeout handler called foo_timeout() and the splnet() statement? This assumes that splsoftclock does not include splnet .. is that correct? If not, replace splnet with something else not included. Another thing that bugs me is there's not an easy way to check if a timeout is already registered, eg: extern int timeout_registered(struct callout handle); -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Apr 28 12: 8:40 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A58AE37B91C for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 12:08:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20831 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 21:08:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id VAA04250 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 21:08:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from caspian.plutotech.com (caspian.plutotech.com [206.168.67.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D58D337B86F for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 12:03:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gibbs@caspian.plutotech.com) Received: from caspian.plutotech.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by caspian.plutotech.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA03592; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:03:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gibbs@caspian.plutotech.com) Message-Id: <200004281903.NAA03592@caspian.plutotech.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Archie Cobbs Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: timeout(9) question In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 28 Apr 2000 10:14:59 PDT." <200004281714.KAA73019@bubba.whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:03:00 -0600 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Question: > >Why doesn't the timeout(9) routine call the handler function at >the same spl level that the timeout was registered? Because it is not obvious that you would get the desired behavior. Just because you happen to be at splfoo() at the time that you perform a call to timeout() does not mean that you want or even need your handler to run at that level. >The way it works now, it seems like there's an unavoidable race >condition. It is avoidable, if necessary, by adding and maintaining additional state. Software interrupts are serialized. This implies that no other software interrupt (including the network software interrupt that is blocked by splnet()) can pre-empt you during the execution of your handler. Naturally, this does not prevent hardware interrupts from getting in there. >Another thing that bugs me is there's not an easy way to check if >a timeout is already registered, eg: > > extern int timeout_registered(struct callout handle); Use the callout interface instead of timeout. timeout(9) should be deprecated anyway. Perhaps Garret will write up a new man page for the callout interface since he added it, but until then, take a look at sys/callout.h. -- Justin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Apr 28 12:33:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEF6E37B60D for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 12:32:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20998 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 21:31:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id VAA04293 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 21:31:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from prism.flugsvamp.com (cb58709-a.mdsn1.wi.home.com [24.17.241.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AAD237B988; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 12:31:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jlemon@flugsvamp.com) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by prism.flugsvamp.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA95099; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:34:00 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from jlemon) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:34:00 -0500 From: Jonathan Lemon To: "Justin T. Gibbs" Cc: Archie Cobbs , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: timeout(9) question Message-ID: <20000428143400.C84498@prism.flugsvamp.com> References: <200004281714.KAA73019@bubba.whistle.com> <200004281903.NAA03592@caspian.plutotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <200004281903.NAA03592@caspian.plutotech.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Apr 28, 2000 at 01:03:00PM -0600, Justin T. Gibbs wrote: > >The way it works now, it seems like there's an unavoidable race > >condition. > > It is avoidable, if necessary, by adding and maintaining additional > state. > > Software interrupts are serialized. This implies that no other software > interrupt (including the network software interrupt that is blocked by > splnet()) can pre-empt you during the execution of your handler. > Naturally, this does not prevent hardware interrupts from getting in there. > > >Another thing that bugs me is there's not an easy way to check if > >a timeout is already registered, eg: > > > > extern int timeout_registered(struct callout handle); > > Use the callout interface instead of timeout. timeout(9) should > be deprecated anyway. Perhaps Garret will write up a new man > page for the callout interface since he added it, but until then, > take a look at sys/callout.h. Or take a look at how the races are handled in netint/tcp_timer.c: s = splnet(); if (callout_pending(tp->tt_keep)) { splx(s); return; } callout_deactivate(tp->tt_keep); where a network interrupt could come and and reset the timer between when it was taken off the timing wheel, and the timeout servicing routine was actually called. -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Apr 28 13: 6:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9426337B72D for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:06:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21258 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 22:06:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id WAA04387 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 22:06:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6001737B72D; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:06:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA04515; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:05:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpdAAA5iaiYi; Fri Apr 28 13:05:47 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA27418; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:05:48 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200004282005.NAA27418@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: How about building modules along with the kernel? To: msmith@freebsd.org (Mike Smith) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 20:05:47 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth), doconnor@gsoft.com.au (Daniel O'Connor), freebsd-arch@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200004270629.XAA00679@mass.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Apr 26, 2000 11:29:10 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > The loader can (and does) already read UFS.. > > > > > > > > It can read files in and load them into arbitarily named sections in the > > > > kernel, and other good things :) > > > > > > But what about JFS, E2FS, KFS, etc. ? > > > > Historical UNIX implementations have handled this with a > > flat filesystem, usually called "stand", where the kernel and > > any modules needed to access the locally instantiated filesystem > > implementations are installed. > > > > NT's boot loader approaches this the same way, though their > > "stand" is actually a FAT partition. > > We have this already; it's called /, and the format is UFS. > > If you want to get really anal, change the module search path to include > somewhere under /boot, and make that a FAT filesystem (we support those > as well). The reason that these other systems use a separate filesystem > of a simpler type is that their bootloaders are _lame_. Ours isn't, and > it doesn't need a new filesystem type just to cater to its' braindeath. > > Either use FAT or UFS, or teach the loader (libstand) about your new > filesystem types. If you're going to implement a filesystem for FreeBSD, > writing loader support for it is just about the most trivial part - > probably on par with the manpage. I think the issue is being raised in the context of dual boot machines; ifit weren't, then "JFS, E2FS, KFS, etc." would have no relevence, as you say. I think you are missing the context here. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Apr 28 15:17:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 997E237B94B for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 15:17:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA22332 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 00:17:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id AAA04927 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 00:17:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0225937B988; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 15:16:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.calldei.com) Received: from holly.calldei.com ([208.191.155.7]) by mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with ESMTP id <0FTQ00HY5Z81JZ@mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net>; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 17:16:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.calldei.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA29804; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 17:16:28 -0500 (CDT envelope-from chris) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 17:16:27 -0500 From: Chris Costello Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/contrib/tcsh - Imported sources In-reply-to: To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: cvs-committers@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Reply-To: chris@calldei.com Message-id: <20000428171627.X14783@holly.calldei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.4i References: <20000415231805.33B311CD7@overcee.netplex.com.au> <20000416024118.A71475@lucifer.bart.nl> <20000415203009.B99830@holly.calldei.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, April 27, 2000, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > In fact, I'd do it right here and now, except I can't get (unmodified) > vgrind(1) to work at all: > > des@des ~% vgrind src/test.c > /usr/share/tmac/tmac.safer:3: error: end of file while defining macro `un' > /usr/share/tmac/tmac.safer:3: error: end of file while defining macro `un' > des@des ~% uname -a > FreeBSD des.follo.net 4.0-STABLE FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE #5: Sat Mar 25 22:53:09 CET 2000 des@des.follo.net:/usr/src/sys/compile/DES i386 That is a bug in psroff(1), not vgrind(1). -- |Chris Costello |Fairy tales: horror stories for children to get them use to reality. `-------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Apr 28 17:23:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6A9137B9E1 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 17:23:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA23319 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 02:23:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id CAA05233 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 02:23:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from io.yi.org (24.67.218.186.bc.wave.home.com [24.67.218.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E40A37B9E1; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 17:23:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jburkhol@home.com) Received: from io.yi.org (localhost.gvcl1.bc.wave.home.com [127.0.0.1]) by io.yi.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84C11BCA7; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 17:23:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Archie Cobbs Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/sys queue.h In-Reply-To: Message from Archie Cobbs of "Thu, 27 Apr 2000 15:50:13 PDT." <200004272250.PAA26982@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 17:23:40 -0700 From: Jake Burkholder Message-Id: <20000429002340.84C11BCA7@io.yi.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > archie 2000/04/27 15:50:13 PDT > > Modified files: > sys/sys queue.h > Log: > Add a new macro CIRCLEQ_FOREACH_REVERSE for traversing through a > circle queue in the reverse direction (from tail to head). > > Revision Changes Path > 1.34 +6 -1 src/sys/sys/queue.h On my web page is a patch that adds TAILQ_FOREACH_REVERSE and updates the man page for both new macros. I also wrote a dumb little program that demonstrates the possible use of a traversal macro with an additional condition. I'll do the work of adding such a thing to the header and updating the manpage if anyone else thinks it would be useful. Comments on names and semantics appreciated. http://io.yi.org Jake To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Apr 28 22:37:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62DF737B718 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 22:37:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26685 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 07:37:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id HAA08956 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 07:37:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from gidora.zeta.org.au (gidora.zeta.org.au [203.26.10.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5071A37B7BA for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 22:37:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bde@zeta.org.au) Received: (qmail 14572 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2000 05:37:21 -0000 Received: from bde.zeta.org.au (203.2.228.102) by gidora.zeta.org.au with SMTP; 29 Apr 2000 05:37:21 -0000 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 15:37:16 +1000 (EST) From: Bruce Evans X-Sender: bde@alphplex.bde.org To: "Justin T. Gibbs" Cc: Archie Cobbs , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: timeout(9) question In-Reply-To: <200004281903.NAA03592@caspian.plutotech.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 28 Apr 2000, Justin T. Gibbs wrote: > >Question: > > > >Why doesn't the timeout(9) routine call the handler function at > >the same spl level that the timeout was registered? > > Because it is not obvious that you would get the desired behavior. > Just because you happen to be at splfoo() at the time that you > perform a call to timeout() does not mean that you want or even > need your handler to run at that level. Especially when the routine that called timeout() was called at splbar(). The combined ipl is (splbar(); splfoo();). timeout() would have no way of disentangling the spls to get back to the one that you think you want (splfoo()) unless the timeout() interface is bloated to pass a pointer to the desired spl function. Anyway, no races can be fixed by doing the spl in the timeout dispatcher instead of in the individual handlers, since the dispatcher needs to reduce the ipl to splsoftclock() for handlers that want to run at that ipl. > Software interrupts are serialized. This implies that no other software > interrupt (including the network software interrupt that is blocked by > splnet()) can pre-empt you during the execution of your handler. > Naturally, this does not prevent hardware interrupts from getting in there. No, only timeouts are serialized. Other software interrupts can interrupt timeout handlers unless the other interrupts are blocked using splfoo() in the handlers. Bruce To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat Apr 29 5: 6:24 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C89E37B621 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 05:06:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28768 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 14:06:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA09611 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 14:06:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACB6437B7F1; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 05:01:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA73374; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 14:01:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) To: chris@calldei.com Cc: cvs-committers@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/contrib/tcsh - Imported sources References: <20000415231805.33B311CD7@overcee.netplex.com.au> <20000416024118.A71475@lucifer.bart.nl> <20000415203009.B99830@holly.calldei.com> <20000428171627.X14783@holly.calldei.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 29 Apr 2000 14:01:24 +0200 In-Reply-To: Chris Costello's message of "Fri, 28 Apr 2000 17:16:27 -0500" Message-ID: Lines: 12 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chris Costello writes: > On Thursday, April 27, 2000, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > des@des ~% vgrind src/test.c > > /usr/share/tmac/tmac.safer:3: error: end of file while defining macro `un' > > /usr/share/tmac/tmac.safer:3: error: end of file while defining macro `un' > That is a bug in psroff(1), not vgrind(1). Anybody know how to fix it? DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat Apr 29 5:51: 7 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2B9437B669 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 05:51:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29058 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 14:51:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA09664 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 14:51:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4827C37B669 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 05:50:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA73521; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 14:50:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) To: arch@freebsd.org Subject: fetch(1) From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 29 Apr 2000 14:50:55 +0200 Message-ID: Lines: 31 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've had a fetch(3)-based version of fetch(1) in my tree for nearly a year... It implements all options except: -A (libfetch currently does not follow redirects, this may change when I rewrite the http code) -b (libfetch does not use code that triggers the bug in question) -r (libfetch doesn't know about offsets, but I plan to change that soon) -t (libfetch does not use code that triggers the bug in question) and possibly options that have been added to fetch(1) after I last synched my version with the one in the tree. I also know of a few bugs that have been fixed in our fetch(1) which I haven't fixed in my version yet (e.g. support for the year 19100 bug) but will be as soon as I have an hour or two to work on it. Size comparison: source code stripped binary current version 3487 loc 38596 bytes libfetch version 533 loc 9852 bytes So, any arguments for or against importing it into -CURRENT? DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat Apr 29 17:43:56 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0B3E37BB8A for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 17:43:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA02918 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 02:43:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id CAA10635 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 02:43:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7774337BB78; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 17:42:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (kris@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA80234; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 17:42:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: kris owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 17:42:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Kris Kennaway To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: fetch(1) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 29 Apr 2000, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > So, any arguments for or against importing it into -CURRENT? Yeah, all those things it doesn't support yet are in active use. Kris ---- In God we Trust -- all others must submit an X.509 certificate. -- Charles Forsythe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat Apr 29 17:44:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2DB337BAFE for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 17:44:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA02928 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 02:44:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id CAA10649 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 02:44:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from scientia.demon.co.uk (scientia.demon.co.uk [212.228.14.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC67E37BCEB for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 17:44:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ben@scientia.demon.co.uk) Received: from strontium.scientia.demon.co.uk ([192.168.91.36] ident=exim) by scientia.demon.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 12lhO8-0008SX-00; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 01:15:08 +0100 Received: (from ben) by strontium.scientia.demon.co.uk (Exim 3.12 #7) id 12lhO7-0002Rm-00; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 01:15:07 +0100 Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 01:15:07 +0100 From: Ben Smithurst To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: fetch(1) Message-ID: <20000430011507.A22035@strontium.scientia.demon.co.uk> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > I've had a fetch(3)-based version of fetch(1) in my tree for nearly a > year... It implements all options except: > > -A (libfetch currently does not follow redirects, this may change > when I rewrite the http code) > > -b (libfetch does not use code that triggers the bug in question) > > -r (libfetch doesn't know about offsets, but I plan to change that > soon) I for one would rather at least -r were implemented before replacing the current fetch(1). Is your fetch(3)-based version available for download anywhere? Other than that I don't really see any problems. -- Ben Smithurst / ben@scientia.demon.co.uk / PGP: 0x99392F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat Apr 29 19:51:49 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9555837B570 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 19:51:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA03487 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 04:51:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id EAA10776 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 04:51:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hitpro.hitachi.co.jp (hitpro.hitachi.co.jp [133.145.224.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61B6737BBB3 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 19:48:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ume@bisd.hitachi.co.jp) Received: from bisdgw.bisd.hitachi.co.jp by hitpro.hitachi.co.jp (8.9.3/3.7W-hitpro) id LAA25763; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 11:48:04 +0900 (JST) Received: from bisdmail.bisd.hitachi.co.jp by bisdgw.bisd.hitachi.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W-bisdgw) with ESMTP id LAA12773; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 11:48:04 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from ume@bisd.hitachi.co.jp) Received: by bisdmail.bisd.hitachi.co.jp (8.9.3/3.7W-bisdmail) id LAA20615; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 11:48:03 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from ume) To: des@flood.ping.uio.no Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: fetch(1) In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: xcite1.20> Mew version 1.94.2 on Emacs 20.6 / Mule 4.0 =?iso-2022-jp?B?KBskQjJWMWMbKEIp?= X-PGP-Public-Key: http://www.imasy.org/~ume/publickey.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 0C 53 FC 5D D0 37 91 05 D0 B3 EF 36 9B 6A BC X-URL: http://www.imasy.org/~ume/ X-OS: FreeBSD 3.4-RELEASE + KAME from cvs repository Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20000430114409R.ume@mahoroba.org> Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 11:44:09 +0900 From: Hajimu UMEMOTO (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCR19LXBsoQiA=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCSCUbKEI=?=) X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 15 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>>> On 29 Apr 2000 14:50:55 +0200 >>>>> Dag-Erling Smorgrav said: des> So, any arguments for or against importing it into -CURRENT? I have an IPv6fy patch for existing fetch(1) and libftpio, and intend to commit. I would like to merge it into your fetch(1) and libfetch, too. # The goal is IPv6 enabled installer. :) -- Hajimu UMEMOTO @ Internet Mutual Aid Society Yokohama, Japan ume@mahoroba.org ume@bisd.hitachi.co.jp ume@FreeBSD.org http://www.imasy.org/~ume/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message