From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 29 22:53:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from tick.tcsn.net (tick.tcsn.net [206.190.91.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 333A237B422 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 22:53:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from n6rej@tcsn.net) Received: from disappointment (la-ppp1-192.tcsn.net [63.202.152.192]) by tick.tcsn.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA85101 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 22:53:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from n6rej@tcsn.net) Message-ID: <00c201c0d139$dcef8680$c098ca3f@disappointment> From: "N6REJ" To: Subject: RedHat vs FreeBSD Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 22:53:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I've been using RedHat for about 2yrs now, and like it pretty well, but I'm told that FreeBSD is much more secure right out of the box, and that over all its a better OS. Can anyone explain the caveats that I might be getting into? Pro/Con's...etc.... Thanks in advance. And Please, don't flower it or distort it. I'm still new at this so what you say to me will matter. Troy n6rej@tcsn.net "I do not understand what I do, for what I want to do I do not do but what I hate I do" Rom 7:15 NIV To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 30 9:57:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FEEB37B424 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 09:57:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.47.12]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAAD22; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:02:35 -0700 Message-ID: <3AED9958.EA60088B@acuson.com> Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 09:56:56 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: N6REJ Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RedHat vs FreeBSD References: <00c201c0d139$dcef8680$c098ca3f@disappointment> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG N6REJ wrote: > > Hello, I've been using RedHat for about 2yrs now, and like it pretty well, > but I'm told that FreeBSD is much more secure right out of the box, and that > over all its a better OS. Can anyone explain the caveats that I might be > getting into? Pro/Con's...etc.... > Thanks in advance. And Please, don't flower it or distort it. I'm still > new at this so what you say to me will matter. It depends upon what you will be using your system for. If it's a web server, then FreeBSD wins hands down. Even diehard Windows users use FreeBSD for their web servers. If you're using it on a client box, be aware there you will encounter numerous "linuxisms". I haven't encountered anything serious, but there will be a few annoyances playing that latest and greatest Linux game out of the box. Overall, Linux is designed as a "hodge-podge" of parts. FreeBSD is an integrated whole. For a lot of people, this won't make any difference, but for me it makes it feel more solid. You'll have to do most of your FreeBSD administration by hand, editing text configuration files. To me this is no big deal, as I find Redhat's linuxconf utility to be confusing. The advantage with having to edit configs by hand is that your knowledge will be applicable to any Unix system. But when you know linuxconf inside and out, that's all you know and it won't do you any good on Debian, SuSE, Slackware, etc. And finally, the FreeBSD documentation is far superior. Period. The heart of Unix documentation is the man pages. I don't care what RMS says about man pages, info pages are hard to navigate, frequently incomplete, and non-standard. Linux does not have good man pages. On the other hand, Linux has made up for the lack of fundamental documentation by creating some fairly good HOW-TOS. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 30 16: 5:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from cheshire.manunkind.org (cheshire.manunkind.org [216.254.114.213]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51C8D37B422 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:05:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ryan@cheshire.manunkind.org) Received: (from ryan@localhost) by cheshire.manunkind.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f3UN7EX66852 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 19:07:14 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ryan) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 19:07:14 -0400 From: Ryan Younce To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Starting TriBUG (Triangle Area BSD Users Group) Message-ID: <20010430190714.C66721@cheshire.manunkind.org> Reply-To: ryany@pobox.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Several of my friends and I are starting a BSD User Group in the Raleigh-Durham, NC area (TriBUG--Triangle Area BSD Users Group, http://www.tribug.org/). We are currently in the advanced planning stages on developing an organization structure, and I was wondering if anybody out there involved in BUGs had done this before, and what sort of things were eventually necessary (IOW, charter? constitution? voting guidelines and membership eligibility? offices? non-profit status? etc). Any help would be greatly appreciated, and thanks in advance. =) -- Ryan Younce ryany@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~ryany/ "B can be thought of as C without types; more accurately, it is BCPL squeezed into 8K bytes of memory and filtered through Thompson's brain." --Dennis Ritchie, "The Development of the C Language", 1993 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed May 2 13:27:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC79C37B43C for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 13:27:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27329 for advocacy@freebsd.org; Wed, 2 May 2001 14:27:39 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 14:27:39 -0600 (MDT) From: Brett Glass Message-Id: <200105022027.OAA27329@lariat.org> To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: ZDNet columnist bashes Apple for using BSD Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2714722,00.html ZDNet Linux columnist Even Leibowitz bashes Apple for not using GPLed software as the basis for OS X. According to Leibowitz, Apple is e-vile because it used open source code so as to avoid re-writing the wheel.... Horrors! Folks here might want to comment in the Talkback about this. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed May 2 13:51:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sol.cc.u-szeged.hu (sol.cc.u-szeged.hu [160.114.8.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E64237B424 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 13:51:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sziszi@petra.hos.u-szeged.hu) Received: from petra.hos.u-szeged.hu by sol.cc.u-szeged.hu (8.9.3+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id WAA08961; Wed, 2 May 2001 22:51:13 +0200 (MEST) Received: from sziszi by petra.hos.u-szeged.hu with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 14v3ab-0006jh-00 for ; Wed, 02 May 2001 22:51:13 +0200 Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 22:51:13 +0200 From: Szilveszter Adam To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ZDNet columnist bashes Apple for using BSD Message-ID: <20010502225113.B24364@petra.hos.u-szeged.hu> Mail-Followup-To: Szilveszter Adam , advocacy@freebsd.org References: <200105022027.OAA27329@lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200105022027.OAA27329@lariat.org>; from brett@lariat.org on Wed, May 02, 2001 at 02:27:39PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 02:27:39PM -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > At > > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2714722,00.html > > ZDNet Linux columnist Even Leibowitz bashes Apple for not using > GPLed software as the basis for OS X. According to Leibowitz, > Apple is e-vile because it used open source code so as to > avoid re-writing the wheel.... Horrors! Folks here might > want to comment in the Talkback about this. Hello, Well, I am sorry but I have a different - more balanced - view of the matter. While it is untrue and simply a repetition of an old mantra that BSD style licensing means that authors want their code to be sucked up and given nothing back, and in fact Apple has contributed to FreeBSD code as we all know, the part about Apple keeping a very close tab on its core technologies is true. They will release the specs for their QuickTime format at exactly the same time as MS will do the same for Media Player or Real Networks for its streaming products (or when mp3 will actually be a real standard, since standards that require you to pay for copyright are not real ones, a standard is a rule that everybody is supposed to follow, but then it must be free. Just as say all kinds of original texts have copyright on them, but texts of legal rules are specifically exempt, they can never have copyrights attached.) While we may be the "We don't care" group, I think it is very important to stress that we actually are not indifferent. We accept proprietary software for as long as it is necessary but stand for open source. We cannot be indifferent in this, because BSD system software (or any other BSD licensed product) is useless if it is only for development work. If you are forced to switch to Windows to watch a simple movie, something is wrong. Also, while getting the software in binary format may be a stop-gap measure, I do not think encouraging binary-only drivers and programs is doing us good. We are becoming more and more dependent on undisclosed software and are forced to believe what the manufacturer says. This is not what OpenSource (no matter under what license) is about. After all, Windows programmers are forced to do the same... believe that MS's APIs work as advertised and do only what they allow them. I do not want BSD (or Linux for that matter) to become another Windows, just better. That's why open-sourcing Mozilla and OpenOffice were such great achivements... they could eradicate the last two pieces of closed-source software from my workstation. (OpenOffice isn't there yet, but Mozilla is already cool, I haven't started up Netscape up in a while now...) So even if QuickTime etc are Apple's "core products", we must always emphasize that we would like to have an OpenSource QuickTime player etc ASAP. -- Regards: Szilveszter ADAM Szeged University Szeged Hungary To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed May 2 14:35:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 478E037B424 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 14:35:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.47.12]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA501E; Wed, 2 May 2001 14:40:47 -0700 Message-ID: <3AF07D8C.E2A69474@acuson.com> Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 14:35:08 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ZDNet columnist bashes Apple for using BSD References: <200105022027.OAA27329@lariat.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brett Glass wrote: > ZDNet Linux columnist Even Leibowitz bashes Apple for not using > GPLed software as the basis for OS X. According to Leibowitz, > Apple is e-vile because it used open source code so as to > avoid re-writing the wheel.... Horrors! Folks here might > want to comment in the Talkback about this. All of the columnists at ZDNet are a shill for someone or another. Most of them are shills for Microsoft. Evan is a shill for GNU. If Evan thinks Apple is evil for not re-writing the wheel, then he doesn't know the first thing about Free Software. Of course, I also think a lot of people in the FSF don't know the first thing about Free Software either, but that's another story. Unless you are an incredibly shallow person, your freedom is completely unaffected by the licensing of the software you use. If you disagree with the amount of *utility* a license permits, then simply don't use that software. Don't go around determining how much utility other people need from their software. And don't go around proclaiming this software holy and that software diabolical based on its licensing. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed May 2 15:10:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from inu.net (mail.inu.net [63.151.4.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DA1C37B422 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 15:10:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bob@buckhorn.net) Received: from buckhorn.net [63.151.3.239] by inu.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.05) id A5BD4F640038; Wed, 02 May 2001 17:10:05 -0500 Message-ID: <3AF085B5.4CED129F@buckhorn.net> Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 17:09:57 -0500 From: Bob Martin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.2-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ZDNet columnist bashes Apple for using BSD References: <200105022027.OAA27329@lariat.org> <3AF07D8C.E2A69474@acuson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Johnson wrote: > > > All of the columnists at ZDNet are a shill for someone or another. Most > of them are shills for Microsoft. Evan is a shill for GNU. > > If Evan thinks Apple is evil for not re-writing the wheel, then he > doesn't know the first thing about Free Software. Of course, I also > think a lot of people in the FSF don't know the first thing about Free > Software either, but that's another story. > > Unless you are an incredibly shallow person, your freedom is completely > unaffected by the licensing of the software you use. If you disagree > with the amount of *utility* a license permits, then simply don't use > that software. Don't go around determining how much utility other people > need from their software. And don't go around proclaiming this software > holy and that software diabolical based on its licensing. > You really should post this to the comments section on the site, or at least the 3rd paragraph. This is quite eloquently said. -- Bob Martin, CTO InterNet Unlimited http://www.inu.net mailto:bob@inu.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed May 2 22:17:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.169.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC1E237B422 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 22:17:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from tedm.placo.com (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.168.154]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f435HOk96912; Wed, 2 May 2001 22:17:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Brett Glass" , Subject: RE: ZDNet columnist bashes Apple for using BSD Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 22:17:24 -0700 Message-ID: <003101c0d390$568b6060$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <200105022027.OAA27329@lariat.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Let me just say for the record that Even Leibowitz isn't bashing Apple for not using GPL, he's bashing Apple for the following (these are his quotes from the article): "The folks at Apple haven't offered any clarification to the FreeType project" "refusal to offer any open source support for its QuickTime streaming video format" "company won't allow open source programmers to make their own Sorenson-aware [Quicktime] players." "Apple likely won't port most open source GUI applications" In a nutshell the 2 big beefs are TrueType and Quicktime. Now, he was able to create a column over these 2 things, and thus his job (for the week I guess) is finished. I frankly don't personally give a rip either way about these 2 things, but I'll give Even one thing - he is absolutely right when he says it's shameful that Apple refuses to make a statement regarding this. If Apple doesen't want to open Quicktime or Truetype that's their business but it's an act of a coward to not come out and SAY that they are not going open these technologies. Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG >[mailto:owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Brett Glass >Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 1:28 PM >To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG >Subject: ZDNet columnist bashes Apple for using BSD > > >At > >http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2714722,00.html > >ZDNet Linux columnist Even Leibowitz bashes Apple for not using >GPLed software as the basis for OS X. According to Leibowitz, >Apple is e-vile because it used open source code so as to >avoid re-writing the wheel.... Horrors! Folks here might >want to comment in the Talkback about this. > >--Brett > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu May 3 22:23: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.169.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5575437B422 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 22:23:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from tedm.placo.com (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.168.154]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f445Mjk02321; Thu, 3 May 2001 22:22:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: , "markemmanuel" Cc: "FreeBSD Advocacy" Subject: RE: Off topic but interesting... Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 22:22:44 -0700 Message-ID: <001701c0d45a$3fa818a0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Mark, I'm following this up in Advocacy rather than Questions because as you said it doesen't belong there. Many of the responses on that are reasoned and are not out of line. Some are, like the DeadBSD. (which I thought was kind of cute) But, you have to keep this in mind - the Linux community has had a fairly severe blow to it's pride here. Everyone knows deep down that the GPL wasn't the real reason Apple didn't use Linux, because the Linux advocates have emphasized numerous times that it's only required to kick back mods to the GPL package to GNU, just because you happen to use a chunk of GNU software in your software doesen't mean it entirely exposes your code. There's plenty in the Linux distribution that Apple could have used, not to mention X windows itself which isn't even GPL. The real reason is simply that Apple didn't think that there was anything that compelling in the Linux distribution that it wanted. In short, from Apple's view, Linux just simply wasn't good enough to bother with. It's no wonder that so many of the Linux faithful all hate Apple now - they aren't dumb and they see this as a subtle slam against Linux, which it is, no getting around that. Apple's one of the first major commercial software OS makers out there who has publically said that BSD software is production-quality. Note they didn't say Linux is production quality, they said BSD is. Despite what we all feel about Apple it is still doing a billion and a half dollars in sales, and it's making a profit, which when you have Microsoft and Sun as your main competitors is no mean feat. There's a LOT of people out there who 6 months ago didn't know Linux or BSD from washer soap, who are studying the BSD market now, not the utterances of Linus Torvalds. That's a pretty nasty knock to a movement that appears to value image as much as they do. Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG >[mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of markemmanuel >Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 9:12 PM >To: port-macppc@netbsd.org; Questions freebsd.org >Subject: Off topic but interesting... > > >I saw this on Linux Today. > >http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-05-02-012-20-OP-BD > >I'm not writing this email regarding the Zdnet article. I'd like everyone >to check out one or two of the feedbacks at Linux Today. A whole slew of >people are ripping on the BSD and Apple Open Source Licenses. I honestly >believe that these people are worse than the Mac Zealots of old. >What makes >it worse is they don't understand what BSD stands for. They seem to have >this godlike demeanor that I still haven't see with the BSD folks. If it's >not GPL or Linux, it's bad. The growing attitudes and sentiments is what >made me try out NetBSD and FreeBSD. > >I mean, they talk about free but they give me no options or choices with >what I can do with their code. They also call Linus a benelovent dictator >while the BSD seems to have a knights of the round table thing going on. >After trying out BSD, I probably won't be going back to Linux anytime soon >because the BSDs feel more superior technically and community-wise than >Linux. > >I just would like to everyone that has helped me on these lists >directly and >indirectly for being simply good people. > >Peace, >Markemmanuel > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message