From owner-freebsd-arch Sun Oct 14 6:44:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E642337B40B for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 06:44:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id C16AB14C2E; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 15:44:27 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Peter Wemm Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Generating host.conf for backward compatibility References: <20011013221909.80C3A3810@overcee.netplex.com.au> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 14 Oct 2001 15:44:27 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20011013221909.80C3A3810@overcee.netplex.com.au> Message-ID: Lines: 10 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Peter Wemm writes: > Secondly, since nsswitch.conf is the master file in the patch, it should be > updated every time. Otherwise POLA will be violated if nsswitch.conf > is updated and some old binaries still use old methods. My patch does that. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sun Oct 14 7: 3: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns2.freenix.org (ns2.freenix.org [194.117.194.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6562037B40A; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 07:03:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ns2.freenix.org (Postfix/TLS, from userid 1002) id 9F33BAF054; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 16:03:03 +0200 (MEST) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 16:03:03 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c Message-ID: <20011014160303.A22301@ns2.freenix.org> Mail-Followup-To: cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org References: <200110110851.f9B8ptf60343@freefall.freebsd.org> <20011011112527.A54224@coffee.q9media.com> <20011011154203.C44561@dragon.nuxi.com> <20011013143225.B4527@ns2.freenix.org> <20011013172706.A53976@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20011013172706.A53976@dragon.nuxi.com>; from obrien@FreeBSD.org on Sat, Oct 13, 2001 at 05:27:06PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT/IPv6 Sony VAIO Z505SX Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ arch as a recipient added ] According to David O'Brien: > install.c: variable_set2(VAR_NEWFS_ARGS, "-b 8192 -f 1024 -c 22", 0); Uh, right. That's bad. I'll change it. Speaking of changing that value, shouldn't we also change the default block and fragment values ? It has been said in the lists many times that 16k/2k is more efficient (and I'm using it myself by defautl now). I'd suggest using 16k/2k (it has the side effect of enabling much greater cpg -- 89 instead of 22) leading to bigger cylinder groups. Comments ? -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- Eurocontrol EEC/ITM -=- Ollivier.Robert@eurocontrol.fr FreeBSD caerdonn.eurocontrol.fr 5.0-CURRENT #6: Thu Aug 10 17:36:11 CEST 2000 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sun Oct 14 19:42:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [66.92.13.169]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F52E37B40B; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 19:42:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.11.6/8.11.1) id f9F2gWZ50156; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 19:42:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 19:42:32 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c Message-ID: <20011014194232.A50125@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@FreeBSD.org References: <200110110851.f9B8ptf60343@freefall.freebsd.org> <20011011112527.A54224@coffee.q9media.com> <20011011154203.C44561@dragon.nuxi.com> <20011013143225.B4527@ns2.freenix.org> <20011013172706.A53976@dragon.nuxi.com> <20011014160303.A22301@ns2.freenix.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20011014160303.A22301@ns2.freenix.org>; from roberto@ns2.freenix.org on Sun, Oct 14, 2001 at 04:03:03PM +0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Oct 14, 2001 at 04:03:03PM +0200, Ollivier Robert wrote: > Speaking of changing that value, shouldn't we also change the default block > and fragment values ? > > It has been said in the lists many times that 16k/2k is more efficient > (and I'm using it myself by defautl now). There has been rummored problems if you use something other than 8k/1k. This is probably something that should run thru -arch or -hackers before doing it. "-c" was a no-brainer as noone has ever argued that a low "-c" was prefered (that I've seen). -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sun Oct 14 19:56:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57C2337B40A; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 19:56:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) id f9F2ur151690; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 19:56:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 19:56:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200110150256.f9F2ur151690@earth.backplane.com> To: "David O'Brien" Cc: cvs-committers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c References: <200110110851.f9B8ptf60343@freefall.freebsd.org> <20011011112527.A54224@coffee.q9media.com> <20011011154203.C44561@dragon.nuxi.com> <20011013143225.B4527@ns2.freenix.org> <20011013172706.A53976@dragon.nuxi.com> <20011014160303.A22301@ns2.freenix.org> <20011014194232.A50125@dragon.nuxi.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :On Sun, Oct 14, 2001 at 04:03:03PM +0200, Ollivier Robert wrote: :> Speaking of changing that value, shouldn't we also change the default block :> and fragment values ? :> :> It has been said in the lists many times that 16k/2k is more efficient :> (and I'm using it myself by defautl now). : :There has been rummored problems if you use something other than 8k/1k. :This is probably something that should run thru -arch or -hackers before :doing it. :"-c" was a no-brainer as noone has ever argued that a low "-c" was :prefered (that I've seen). You can use 16K/2K safely. Anything larger may fragment the buffer cache's KVA space and create issues. There are no known bugs (other then fragmentation), but people have sporatically reported weirdness with other combinations. There have been no solid bug reports. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sun Oct 14 20: 2: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2149037B405; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 20:01:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9F31uo40558; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 22:01:56 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 22:01:56 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: "David O'Brien" Cc: cvs-committers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c Message-ID: <20011014220155.A64887@dan.emsphone.com> References: <200110110851.f9B8ptf60343@freefall.freebsd.org> <20011011112527.A54224@coffee.q9media.com> <20011011154203.C44561@dragon.nuxi.com> <20011013143225.B4527@ns2.freenix.org> <20011013172706.A53976@dragon.nuxi.com> <20011014160303.A22301@ns2.freenix.org> <20011014194232.A50125@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20011014194232.A50125@dragon.nuxi.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i X-OS: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT X-message-flag: Outlook Error Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the last episode (Oct 14), David O'Brien said: > On Sun, Oct 14, 2001 at 04:03:03PM +0200, Ollivier Robert wrote: > > Speaking of changing that value, shouldn't we also change the > > default block and fragment values ? > > > > It has been said in the lists many times that 16k/2k is more > > efficient (and I'm using it myself by defautl now). > > There has been rumored problems if you use something other than > 8k/1k. This is probably something that should run thru -arch or > -hackers before doing it. "-c" was a no-brainer as noone has ever > argued that a low "-c" was prefered (that I've seen). For what it's worth, I've been running 8 100gb filesystems at 16/2 since 1997 with no problems, with OSes from 2.2.5->2.2.8 and later, 4.0->4.4. One of them holds a copy of the FreeBSD CVS tree that gets cvsupped nightly, and the others hold files up to 40gb. I've seen no filesystem problems that couldn't be traced to bad hardware. -- Dan Nelson dnelson@allantgroup.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sun Oct 14 20:17:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from iguana.aciri.org (iguana.aciri.org [192.150.187.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0948437B40A for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 20:17:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rizzo@localhost) by iguana.aciri.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f9F3E0X49783 for arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 20:14:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rizzo) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 20:14:00 -0700 From: Luigi Rizzo To: arch@freebsd.org Subject: where to put support for timestamping kernel events ? Message-ID: <20011014201400.A49458@iguana.aciri.org> References: <20011014134502.B47525@iguana.aciri.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20011014134502.B47525@iguana.aciri.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [Apparently this kind of question is better asked on -arch, so sorry for the repost, here it goes again... and in the meantime i have had some time to elaborate on names and locations.] for some work i am doing these days, i needed to do some relatively precise (sub-microsecond resolution, and possibly not very intrusive) measurements of some kernel events. What i come up with seems to be relatively simple yet flexible: I record pairs of 32-bit values into an array which is then exported via sysctl. Timestamps are recorded using the TSTMP macro below, which in turn calls the (machine-specific) _TSTMP() function which does the job. On a 750MHz machine the whole thing takes about 30-40 cycles, which gives pretty good resolution (I guess it can be further optimized by writing the whole thing in assembler). The whole thing is extremely simple -- the full code is below, basically (modulo disabling it for architectures where the TSC is not present, or adapting it to other architectures such as the Alpha). My question(s) are: * do you think this is a useful feature to be incorporated in the system ? * if so, where would you put the two pieces of code below ? I am thinking of sys/param.h for the header files, and i386/isa/clock.c for the actual function definition (and other machine-specific implementation as they get implemented. Initially, i would put the option in options.i386) * any suggestion about variables and macro/function names etc ? Feedback is greatly appreciated -- i would really like to see this stuff in the system. Diffs below (not mp-ready, the static variable in _TSTMP should be read and incremented in a critical section, but you get the idea). cheers luigi ----------------------------------------------------------------- RCS file: /home/xorpc/u2/freebsd/src/sys/conf/options.i386,v retrieving revision 1.132.2.7 diff -u -r1.132.2.7 options.i386 --- conf/options.i386 2001/08/15 01:23:48 1.132.2.7 +++ conf/options.i386 2001/10/15 02:44:30 @@ -205,5 +205,6 @@ SMBFS # ------------------------------- +KERN_TIMESTAMP opt_global.h # EOF # ------------------------------- =================================================================== RCS file: /home/xorpc/u2/freebsd/src/sys/i386/isa/clock.c,v retrieving revision 1.149.2.3 diff -u -r1.149.2.3 clock.c --- i386/isa/clock.c 2001/04/18 23:17:41 1.149.2.3 +++ i386/isa/clock.c 2001/10/15 02:49:37 @@ -199,6 +199,25 @@ SYSCTL_OPAQUE(_debug, OID_AUTO, i8254_timecounter, CTLFLAG_RD, &i8254_timecounter, sizeof(i8254_timecounter), "S,timecounter", ""); +#ifdef KERN_TIMESTAMP +#define L_TSC_SIZE 16384 +static u_long tsc[L_TSC_SIZE] ; +SYSCTL_OPAQUE(_debug, OID_AUTO, timestamp, CTLFLAG_RD, tsc, + sizeof(tsc), "LU", "Kernel timestamps"); +void +_TSTMP(u_int32_t x) +{ + static int i ; + + tsc[i] = (u_int32_t)rdtsc(); + tsc[i+1] = x ; + i = i + 2 ; + if (i >= L_TSC_SIZE) + i = 0 ; + tsc[i] = 0 ; /* mark last entry */ +} +#endif KERN_TIMESTAMP + static void clkintr(struct clockframe frame) { =================================================================== RCS file: /home/xorpc/u2/freebsd/src/sys/sys/param.h,v retrieving revision 1.61.2.18 diff -u -r1.61.2.18 param.h --- sys/param.h 2001/09/17 06:54:26 1.61.2.18 +++ sys/param.h 2001/10/15 02:41:24 @@ -263,4 +263,17 @@ void panic __P((const char *, ...)) __dead2 __printflike(1, 2); #endif +#ifdef _KERNEL /* timestamping support */ +#ifdef KERN_TIMESTAMP +#define TSTMP(class, unit, event, par) \ + _TSTMP( (((class) & 15) << 28 ) | \ + (((unit) & 15) << 24 ) | \ + (((event) & 255) << 16 ) | \ + (((par) & 0xffff) ) ) +extern void _TSTMP(u_long); +#else /* !KERN_TIMESTAMP */ +#define TSTMP(class, unit, event, par) _TSTMP(0) +#define _TSTMP(x) do {} while (0) +#endif /* !KERN_TIMESTAMP */ +#endif #endif /* _SYS_PARAM_H_ */ ----------------------------------+----------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . ACIRI/ICSI (on leave from Univ. di Pisa) http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . 1947 Center St, Berkeley CA 94704 Phone: (510) 666 2927 ----------------------------------+----------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sun Oct 14 21:10:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from peter3.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [24.14.150.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B70537B409; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 21:10:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from overcee.netplex.com.au (overcee.wemm.org [10.0.0.3]) by peter3.wemm.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9F4A9M98707; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 21:10:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.netplex.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12A55380F; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 21:10:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Matt Dillon Cc: "David O'Brien" , cvs-committers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c In-Reply-To: <200110150256.f9F2ur151690@earth.backplane.com> Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 21:10:05 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20011015041009.12A55380F@overcee.netplex.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matt Dillon wrote: > > :On Sun, Oct 14, 2001 at 04:03:03PM +0200, Ollivier Robert wrote: > :> Speaking of changing that value, shouldn't we also change the default bloc k > :> and fragment values ? > :> > :> It has been said in the lists many times that 16k/2k is more efficient > :> (and I'm using it myself by defautl now). > : > :There has been rummored problems if you use something other than 8k/1k. > :This is probably something that should run thru -arch or -hackers before > :doing it. > :"-c" was a no-brainer as noone has ever argued that a low "-c" was > :prefered (that I've seen). > > You can use 16K/2K safely. Anything larger may fragment the buffer > cache's KVA space and create issues. There are no known bugs (other > then fragmentation), but people have sporatically reported weirdness > with other combinations. There have been no solid bug reports. A ratio of 8:1 is the key for some reason. 4:1 used to regularly corrupt news filesystems a couple of years ago. (we used 4k/1k). Personally, I'm worried about using 16k/2k on anything less than a large (say larger than 1G) file system. If we made the defaults adjust to the fs size, I think that would be nice. (ie: default to max -c possible, and switch to 16k/2k for "big" fs's) Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sun Oct 14 21:42:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from iguana.aciri.org (iguana.aciri.org [192.150.187.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D2D737B40D for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 21:42:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rizzo@localhost) by iguana.aciri.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f9F4dGH50399; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 21:39:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rizzo) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 21:39:16 -0700 From: Luigi Rizzo To: arch@freebsd.org Cc: rizzo@aciri.org Subject: exporting device info via sysctl ? Message-ID: <20011014213916.A50369@iguana.aciri.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I seem to remember a discussion from some time ago about exporting device information via sysctl. Given that now there has been dynamic sysctl support for a while, the thing would be feasible (e.g. dynamically creating an hw. subtree), and possibly useful to get/set some more info on devices. Has there been any followup on this ? Would people be happy to have them ? cheers luigi ----------------------------------+----------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . ACIRI/ICSI (on leave from Univ. di Pisa) http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . 1947 Center St, Berkeley CA 94704 Phone: (510) 666 2927 ----------------------------------+----------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sun Oct 14 22:16:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from peter3.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [24.14.150.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B70E37B40D for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 22:16:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from overcee.netplex.com.au (overcee.wemm.org [10.0.0.3]) by peter3.wemm.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9F5GbM98836 for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 22:16:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.netplex.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7581380F; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 22:16:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: exporting device info via sysctl ? In-Reply-To: <20011014213916.A50369@iguana.aciri.org> Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 22:16:37 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20011015051637.C7581380F@overcee.netplex.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Luigi Rizzo wrote: > I seem to remember a discussion from some time ago about exporting > device information via sysctl. Given that now there has been > dynamic sysctl support for a while, the thing would be feasible > (e.g. dynamically creating an hw. subtree), > and possibly useful to get/set some more info on devices. > > Has there been any followup on this ? Would people be happy > to have them ? Check out /usr/sbin/devinfo and devinfo(3).. Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Oct 15 4: 0:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns2.freenix.org (ns2.freenix.org [194.117.194.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 656FF37B410; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 04:00:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ns2.freenix.org (Postfix/TLS, from userid 1002) id 586B4AF059; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:00:02 +0200 (MEST) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:00:01 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: David O'Brien Cc: cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c Message-ID: <20011015130001.A25715@ns2.freenix.org> Mail-Followup-To: David O'Brien , cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org References: <200110110851.f9B8ptf60343@freefall.freebsd.org> <20011011112527.A54224@coffee.q9media.com> <20011011154203.C44561@dragon.nuxi.com> <20011013143225.B4527@ns2.freenix.org> <20011013172706.A53976@dragon.nuxi.com> <20011014160303.A22301@ns2.freenix.org> <20011014194232.A50125@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20011014194232.A50125@dragon.nuxi.com>; from obrien@FreeBSD.org on Sun, Oct 14, 2001 at 07:42:32PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT/IPv6 Sony VAIO Z505SX Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to David O'Brien: > There has been rummored problems if you use something other than 8k/1k. > This is probably something that should run thru -arch or -hackers before > doing it. Well I remember having problems with snapshots in the early days but Kirk fixed that. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- Eurocontrol EEC/ITM -=- Ollivier.Robert@eurocontrol.fr FreeBSD caerdonn.eurocontrol.fr 5.0-CURRENT #6: Thu Aug 10 17:36:11 CEST 2000 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Oct 15 4: 4: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns2.freenix.org (ns2.freenix.org [194.117.194.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0E2037B408; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 04:03:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ns2.freenix.org (Postfix/TLS, from userid 1002) id 372A4AF05E; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:03:54 +0200 (MEST) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:03:54 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: Peter Wemm Cc: Matt Dillon , David O'Brien , cvs-committers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c Message-ID: <20011015130353.B25715@ns2.freenix.org> Mail-Followup-To: Peter Wemm , Matt Dillon , David O'Brien , cvs-committers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200110150256.f9F2ur151690@earth.backplane.com> <20011015041009.12A55380F@overcee.netplex.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20011015041009.12A55380F@overcee.netplex.com.au>; from peter@wemm.org on Sun, Oct 14, 2001 at 09:10:05PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT/IPv6 Sony VAIO Z505SX Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Peter Wemm: > Personally, I'm worried about using 16k/2k on anything less than a large (say > larger than 1G) file system. Well, all my machines use 16k/2k for all filesystems now and I've never got any problem with that. It wastes a bit more space since fragments are now twice as big but that's about it. > If we made the defaults adjust to the fs size, I think that would be nice. > (ie: default to max -c possible, and switch to 16k/2k for "big" fs's) Like 8k/1k for <1GB and 16k/2k for >1GB ? Can be done I think. I'll have a look at that but bde has probably already written that patch years ago :-) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- Eurocontrol EEC/ITM -=- Ollivier.Robert@eurocontrol.fr FreeBSD caerdonn.eurocontrol.fr 5.0-CURRENT #6: Thu Aug 10 17:36:11 CEST 2000 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Oct 15 9: 7:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 811D037B409; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:07:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) id f9FG7QL54919; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:07:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:07:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200110151607.f9FG7QL54919@earth.backplane.com> To: Ollivier Robert Cc: Peter Wemm , "David O'Brien" , cvs-committers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c References: <200110150256.f9F2ur151690@earth.backplane.com> <20011015041009.12A55380F@overcee.netplex.com.au> <20011015130353.B25715@ns2.freenix.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : :Like 8k/1k for <1GB and 16k/2k for >1GB ? Can be done I think. I'll have a :look at that but bde has probably already written that patch years ago :-) :-- :Ollivier ROBERT -=- Eurocontrol EEC/ITM -=- Ollivier.Robert@eurocontrol.fr :FreeBSD caerdonn.eurocontrol.fr 5.0-CURRENT #6: Thu Aug 10 17:36:11 CEST 2000 : This sounds like a good idea to me, though '1GB' is somewhat arbitrary it does make sense to some degree and it ought to be trivial to add to newfs. If you submit your patches to me and/or to -hackers I will review it. note: we shouldn't default to anything other then 8K/1K or 16K/2K. No other combinations are optimal at the moment. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Oct 15 9:18:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D20D337B40C; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:18:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f9FGILV04427; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 10:18:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9FGIK722661; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 10:18:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Message-Id: <200110151618.f9FGIK722661@harmony.village.org> To: Matt Dillon Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c Cc: Ollivier Robert , Peter Wemm , "David O'Brien" , cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:07:26 PDT." <200110151607.f9FG7QL54919@earth.backplane.com> References: <200110151607.f9FG7QL54919@earth.backplane.com> <200110150256.f9F2ur151690@earth.backplane.com> <20011015041009.12A55380F@overcee.netplex.com.au> <20011015130353.B25715@ns2.freenix.org> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 10:18:20 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <200110151607.f9FG7QL54919@earth.backplane.com> Matt Dillon writes: : note: we shouldn't default to anything other then 8K/1K or 16K/2K. No : other combinations are optimal at the moment. We've used 4k/512 for mfs systems on extremely small filesystems. This seems to work too. But unless you have a 32M part or a 1M file system, most people won't care about that. We've also used 4k/1k, but weird things happened (and we're seeing weird things with the 4k/512 memory file systems on boot sometimes where it will hang in nanoslp in mount_mfs for reasons unknown one boot in 10). Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Oct 15 11: 7:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu (khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu [18.24.4.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBBA037B401 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 11:07:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wollman@localhost) by khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu (8.11.4/8.11.4) id f9FI76U29508; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 14:07:06 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wollman) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 14:07:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <200110151807.f9FI76U29508@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c In-Reply-To: <20011014194232.A50125@dragon.nuxi.com> References: <200110110851.f9B8ptf60343@freefall.freebsd.org> <20011011112527.A54224@coffee.q9media.com> <20011011154203.C44561@dragon.nuxi.com> <20011013143225.B4527@ns2.freenix.org> <20011013172706.A53976@dragon.nuxi.com> <20011014160303.A22301@ns2.freenix.org> <20011014194232.A50125@dragon.nuxi.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG < said: > There has been rummored problems if you use something other than 8k/1k. > This is probably something that should run thru -arch or -hackers before > doing it. We've been using 16k/[24]k on our servers here with no trouble; that includes ftp5/cvsup3. -GAWollman To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Oct 15 12:45:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.noos.fr (camus.noos.net [212.198.2.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1239E37B417 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 12:45:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 79976995 invoked by uid 0); 15 Oct 2001 19:45:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gits.dyndns.org) ([212.198.231.187]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.70 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 15 Oct 2001 19:45:14 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by gits.dyndns.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9FJj4D27624; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 21:45:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root) Message-Id: <200110151945.f9FJj4D27624@gits.dyndns.org> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c In-Reply-To: <20011015130353.B25715@ns2.freenix.org> To: Ollivier Robert Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 21:45:03 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Peter Wemm , Matt Dillon , "David O'Brien" , cvs-committers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: clefevre@citeweb.net From: Cyrille Lefevre Organization: ACME X-Face: X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL94c (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ollivier Robert wrote: > According to Peter Wemm: > > Personally, I'm worried about using 16k/2k on anything less than a large (say > > larger than 1G) file system. > > Well, all my machines use 16k/2k for all filesystems now and I've never got > any problem with that. It wastes a bit more space since fragments are now > twice as big but that's about it. > > > If we made the defaults adjust to the fs size, I think that would be nice. > > (ie: default to max -c possible, and switch to 16k/2k for "big" fs's) > > Like 8k/1k for <1GB and 16k/2k for >1GB ? Can be done I think. I'll have a > look at that but bde has probably already written that patch years ago :-) is this 1GB limit really accurate ? do you know any todays drives lower than 4GB ? Cyrille. -- Cyrille Lefevre mailto:clefevre@citeweb.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Oct 15 12:48: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from beppo.feral.com (beppo.feral.com [192.67.166.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08D7237B407; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 12:47:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wonky.feral.com (wonky.feral.com [192.67.166.7]) by beppo.feral.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f9FJl4H99530; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 12:47:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 12:47:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: To: Cyrille Lefevre Cc: Ollivier Robert , Peter Wemm , Matt Dillon , "David O'Brien" , , Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c In-Reply-To: <200110151945.f9FJj4D27624@gits.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20011015124636.I29828-100000@wonky.feral.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There is a substantial amount of drives out there stil that are < 1GB. Also, consider floppy && SANdisk types of devices. On Mon, 15 Oct 2001, Cyrille Lefevre wrote: > Ollivier Robert wrote: > > According to Peter Wemm: > > > Personally, I'm worried about using 16k/2k on anything less than a large (say > > > larger than 1G) file system. > > > > Well, all my machines use 16k/2k for all filesystems now and I've never got > > any problem with that. It wastes a bit more space since fragments are now > > twice as big but that's about it. > > > > > If we made the defaults adjust to the fs size, I think that would be nice. > > > (ie: default to max -c possible, and switch to 16k/2k for "big" fs's) > > > > Like 8k/1k for <1GB and 16k/2k for >1GB ? Can be done I think. I'll have a > > look at that but bde has probably already written that patch years ago :-) > > is this 1GB limit really accurate ? > do you know any todays drives lower than 4GB ? > > Cyrille. > -- > Cyrille Lefevre mailto:clefevre@citeweb.net > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Oct 15 12:55:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from maila.telia.com (maila.telia.com [194.22.194.231]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BD0737B407 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 12:55:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from d1o913.telia.com (d1o913.telia.com [195.252.44.241]) by maila.telia.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9FJtML04545 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 21:55:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ertr1013.student.uu.se (h185n2fls20o913.telia.com [212.181.163.185]) by d1o913.telia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA13710 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 21:55:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: (qmail 410 invoked by uid 1001); 15 Oct 2001 19:55:19 -0000 Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 21:55:19 +0200 From: Erik Trulsson To: Matthew Jacob Cc: Cyrille Lefevre , cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c Message-ID: <20011015215519.A394@student.uu.se> Mail-Followup-To: Matthew Jacob , Cyrille Lefevre , cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org References: <200110151945.f9FJj4D27624@gits.dyndns.org> <20011015124636.I29828-100000@wonky.feral.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20011015124636.I29828-100000@wonky.feral.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.22.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ Cc: list trimmed] On Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 12:47:04PM -0700, Matthew Jacob wrote: > > There is a substantial amount of drives out there stil that are < 1GB. > Also, consider floppy && SANdisk types of devices. > > > > > > > Like 8k/1k for <1GB and 16k/2k for >1GB ? Can be done I think. I'll have a > > > look at that but bde has probably already written that patch years ago :-) > > > > is this 1GB limit really accurate ? > > do you know any todays drives lower than 4GB ? Also note that the limit discussed is for *filesystem* size. Not drive size. Even if the disk itself might be quite large it is not unusual that some of the filesystems on the disk are fairly small. (For example '/' '/var' and '/tmp' are often separate filesystems smaller than 1 GB.) -- Erik Trulsson ertr1013@student.uu.se To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Oct 15 14:26:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8F9037B40B; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 14:26:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) id f9FLQE956721; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 14:26:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 14:26:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200110152126.f9FLQE956721@earth.backplane.com> To: Matthew Jacob Cc: Cyrille Lefevre , Ollivier Robert , Peter Wemm , "David O'Brien" , , Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c References: <20011015124636.I29828-100000@wonky.feral.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I was thinking more in regards to the partition bewing newfs'd, not so much the size of the drive containing the partition. There are a lot of standard partitions that typically run less then a gig... '/', for example. Not that I think it matters a great deal. I don't think people would really notice any significant loss of disk space if we just changed the newfs default to 16K/2K for everything, at least for real hard drives. The 1-gig test would also help with newfs'ing non-hard drives like solid state storage, small mfs partitions (as peter brought up), and so forth. I think it's reasonable. -Matt : : :There is a substantial amount of drives out there stil that are < 1GB. :Also, consider floppy && SANdisk types of devices. : : :On Mon, 15 Oct 2001, Cyrille Lefevre wrote: :... :> is this 1GB limit really accurate ? :> do you know any todays drives lower than 4GB ? :> :> Cyrille. :> -- :> Cyrille Lefevre mailto:clefevre@citeweb.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Oct 15 14:27:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from beppo.feral.com (beppo.feral.com [192.67.166.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCBD837B403; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 14:27:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.feral.com (mjacob@mailhost.feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by beppo.feral.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f9FLR7H00272; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 14:27:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 14:27:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob X-Sender: mjacob@beppo Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Matt Dillon Cc: Cyrille Lefevre , Ollivier Robert , Peter Wemm , "David O'Brien" , cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c In-Reply-To: <200110152126.f9FLQE956721@earth.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Oddly enough, I think we're actually in agreeent. On Mon, 15 Oct 2001, Matt Dillon wrote: > I was thinking more in regards to the partition bewing newfs'd, not so > much the size of the drive containing the partition. There are a lot > of standard partitions that typically run less then a gig... '/', for > example. Not that I think it matters a great deal. I don't think > people would really notice any significant loss of disk space if we > just changed the newfs default to 16K/2K for everything, at least for > real hard drives. The 1-gig test would also help with newfs'ing > non-hard drives like solid state storage, small mfs partitions > (as peter brought up), and so forth. I think it's reasonable. > > -Matt > : > : > :There is a substantial amount of drives out there stil that are < 1GB. > :Also, consider floppy && SANdisk types of devices. > : > : > :On Mon, 15 Oct 2001, Cyrille Lefevre wrote: > :... > :> is this 1GB limit really accurate ? > :> do you know any todays drives lower than 4GB ? > :> > :> Cyrille. > :> -- > :> Cyrille Lefevre mailto:clefevre@citeweb.net > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Oct 15 15:26:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mrout1.yahoo.com (mrout1.yahoo.com [216.145.54.171]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76F9737B401; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 15:26:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yahoo-inc.com (zoot.corp.yahoo.com [216.145.52.89]) by mrout1.yahoo.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/y.out) with ESMTP id f9FMQYf75082; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 15:26:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3BCB629A.ACF72517@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 15:26:34 -0700 From: Doug Barton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matt Dillon Cc: Matthew Jacob , Peter Wemm , cvs-committers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c References: <20011015124636.I29828-100000@wonky.feral.com> <200110152126.f9FLQE956721@earth.backplane.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------452C775F06A8B39928947702" Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------452C775F06A8B39928947702 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What do you guys think of the attached patch? If this is such an important issue, it should be documented. I for one am glad I saw this discussion, because I'm looking at creating a custom file system for about 300,000 files that are 400k or smaller. I'm looking to improve file I/O performance, so I thought a smaller frag size might get things packed in tighter... Doug --------------452C775F06A8B39928947702 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="newfs.8.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="newfs.8.diff" Index: newfs.8 =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sbin/newfs/newfs.8,v retrieving revision 1.43 diff -u -r1.43 newfs.8 --- newfs.8 2001/10/04 12:24:18 1.43 +++ newfs.8 2001/10/15 22:21:39 @@ -111,6 +111,9 @@ .It Fl b Ar block-size The block size of the file system, in bytes. It must be a power of 2. The default size is 8192 bytes, and the smallest allowable size is 4096 bytes. +The optimal block:fragment ratio is 8:1. +Other ratios are possible, but are not recommended, and may produce +unpredictable results. .It Fl c Ar #cylinders/group The number of cylinders per cylinder group in a file system. The default is to compute the maximum allowed by the other parameters. This value is --------------452C775F06A8B39928947702-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Oct 15 15:30:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D93137B40A; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 15:30:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) id f9FMUUo57520; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 15:30:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 15:30:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200110152230.f9FMUUo57520@earth.backplane.com> To: Doug Barton Cc: Matthew Jacob , Peter Wemm , cvs-committers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c References: <20011015124636.I29828-100000@wonky.feral.com> <200110152126.f9FLQE956721@earth.backplane.com> <3BCB629A.ACF72517@yahoo-inc.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : :This is a multi-part message in MIME format. :--------------452C775F06A8B39928947702 :Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii :Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit : : What do you guys think of the attached patch? If this is such an :important issue, it should be documented. I for one am glad I saw this :discussion, because I'm looking at creating a custom file system for :about 300,000 files that are 400k or smaller. I'm looking to improve :file I/O performance, so I thought a smaller frag size might get things :packed in tighter... Good idea. -Matt :+++ newfs.8 2001/10/15 22:21:39 :@@ -111,6 +111,9 @@ : .It Fl b Ar block-size : The block size of the file system, in bytes. It must be a power of 2. The : default size is 8192 bytes, and the smallest allowable size is 4096 bytes. :+The optimal block:fragment ratio is 8:1. :+Other ratios are possible, but are not recommended, and may produce :+unpredictable results. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Oct 15 16:29:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from misha.privatelabs.com (misha.privatelabs.com [66.9.25.166]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B17CF37B407; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 16:29:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from misha.privatelabs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by misha.privatelabs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9FNSmm74347; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:28:49 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mi@aldan.algebra.com) Message-Id: <200110152328.f9FNSmm74347@misha.privatelabs.com> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:28:47 -0400 (EDT) From: mi@aldan.algebra.com Reply-To: mi@aldan.algebra.com Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c To: DougB@yahoo-inc.com Cc: dillon@earth.backplane.com, mjacob@feral.com, peter@wemm.org, cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <3BCB629A.ACF72517@yahoo-inc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 15 Oct, Doug Barton wrote: > What do you guys think of the attached patch? >+Other ratios are possible, but are not recommended, and may produce >+unpredictable results. I don't like the "vaguesness" of this. Do other ratios work (even if slower), or do the trigger bugs nobody wants to chase? Just MHO, of course... -mi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Oct 15 17:15:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns2.freenix.org (ns2.freenix.org [194.117.194.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 651E037B403 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 17:15:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ns2.freenix.org (Postfix/TLS, from userid 1002) id 96039AF047; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 02:15:52 +0200 (MEST) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 02:15:52 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: Cyrille Lefevre Cc: Peter Wemm , Matt Dillon , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c Message-ID: <20011016021552.A2565@ns2.freenix.org> References: <20011015130353.B25715@ns2.freenix.org> <200110151945.f9FJj4D27624@gits.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200110151945.f9FJj4D27624@gits.dyndns.org>; from clefevre@citeweb.net on Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 09:45:03PM +0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT/IPv6 Sony VAIO Z505SX Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ NOTE: -arch ONLY ] According to Cyrille Lefevre: > is this 1GB limit really accurate ? > do you know any todays drives lower than 4GB ? As others said, we talking about filesystem size, not hard disk size... My personal opinion is that 16k/2k ought to be used even on FS < 1 GB but I don't have a strong opinion about it. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- Eurocontrol EEC/ITM -=- Ollivier.Robert@eurocontrol.fr FreeBSD caerdonn.eurocontrol.fr 5.0-CURRENT #6: Thu Aug 10 17:36:11 CEST 2000 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Oct 15 18:54: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 150E537B403; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 18:53:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f9G1ruV07294; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:53:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9G1rn727634; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:53:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Message-Id: <200110160153.f9G1rn727634@harmony.village.org> To: mi@aldan.algebra.com Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c Cc: DougB@yahoo-inc.com, dillon@earth.backplane.com, mjacob@feral.com, peter@wemm.org, cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:28:47 EDT." <200110152328.f9FNSmm74347@misha.privatelabs.com> References: <200110152328.f9FNSmm74347@misha.privatelabs.com> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:53:49 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <200110152328.f9FNSmm74347@misha.privatelabs.com> mi@aldan.algebra.com writes: : I don't like the "vaguesness" of this. Do other ratios work (even if : slower), or do the trigger bugs nobody wants to chase? Just MHO, of : course... other ratios do seem to work on systems that don't have a high disk load. we've shipped systems with 4k/1k and haven't had problems with that. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Oct 15 19:26:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from holly.dyndns.org (adsl-208-191-149-224.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [208.191.149.224]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75AAE37B407; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:26:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.11.6/8.9.3) id f9G2RbR06299; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 21:27:37 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 21:27:35 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: John Baldwin Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Merging fdescfs. Message-ID: <20011015212735.A6252@holly.calldei.com> Reply-To: chris@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20011011160750.D696@holly.calldei.com> <20011011170859.A19044@holly.calldei.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20011011170859.A19044@holly.calldei.com>; from chris@FreeBSD.ORG on Thu, Oct 11, 2001 at 05:08:59PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, October 11, 2001, Chris Costello wrote: > This also means that there are no longer any `tty', `stdin' or > `stdout' nodes in fdescfs. Anybody? If there is no response to this, I will merge this in seven days (October 22, 2001). -- +-------------------+-------------------------------------------------+ | Chris Costello | In the long run, every program becomes rococco, | | chris@FreeBSD.org | and then rubble. - Alan Perlis | +-------------------+-------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Oct 15 19:30:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E52F937B40D; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:30:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.11.6/8.9.1) id f9G2UHw28982; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:30:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:30:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200110160230.f9G2UHw28982@apollo.backplane.com> To: Warner Losh Cc: mi@aldan.algebra.com, DougB@yahoo-inc.com, mjacob@feral.com, peter@wemm.org, cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c References: <200110152328.f9FNSmm74347@misha.privatelabs.com> <200110160153.f9G1rn727634@harmony.village.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : :In message <200110152328.f9FNSmm74347@misha.privatelabs.com> mi@aldan.algebra.com writes: :: I don't like the "vaguesness" of this. Do other ratios work (even if :: slower), or do the trigger bugs nobody wants to chase? Just MHO, of :: course... : :other ratios do seem to work on systems that don't have a high disk :load. we've shipped systems with 4k/1k and haven't had problems with :that. : :Warner Well, this is why the bug hasn't been nailed down yet. For a long time (3.x, 4.0, 4.1 days) the buffer cache and VM system had serious breakage when it came to oddly sized buffers and we spent a long time fixing that. So far nobody has been able to determine whether the fragment ratio breakage (when it can be reproduced at all) is due to bugs in UFS or if there are still bugs in the buffer cache. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Oct 15 20:10:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from peter3.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [24.14.150.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA72037B410; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:10:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from overcee.netplex.com.au (overcee.wemm.org [10.0.0.3]) by peter3.wemm.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9G3A5M02619; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:10:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.netplex.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 717A03803; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:10:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: clefevre@citeweb.net Cc: Ollivier Robert , Matt Dillon , "David O'Brien" , cvs-committers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c In-Reply-To: <200110151945.f9FJj4D27624@gits.dyndns.org> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:10:05 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20011016031005.717A03803@overcee.netplex.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Cyrille Lefevre wrote: > Ollivier Robert wrote: > > According to Peter Wemm: > > > Personally, I'm worried about using 16k/2k on anything less than a large (say > > > larger than 1G) file system. > > > > Well, all my machines use 16k/2k for all filesystems now and I've never got > > any problem with that. It wastes a bit more space since fragments are now > > twice as big but that's about it. > > > > > If we made the defaults adjust to the fs size, I think that would be nice . > > > (ie: default to max -c possible, and switch to 16k/2k for "big" fs's) > > > > Like 8k/1k for <1GB and 16k/2k for >1GB ? Can be done I think. I'll have a > > look at that but bde has probably already written that patch years ago :-) > > is this 1GB limit really accurate ? > do you know any todays drives lower than 4GB ? It's nothing to do with "drives". It is a partition thing. eg: a 50Meg root fs or /tmp or something. Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Oct 15 20:30:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail-relay1.yahoo.com (mail-relay1.yahoo.com [216.145.48.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A38B337B403; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:30:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DougBarton.net (db-cvad-2-tmp.yahoo.com [216.145.48.243]) by mail-relay1.yahoo.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FB668B5DD; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:30:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3BCBA9E8.F0732E5B@DougBarton.net> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:30:48 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Warner Losh Cc: dillon@earth.backplane.com, cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c References: <200110152328.f9FNSmm74347@misha.privatelabs.com> <200110160153.f9G1rn727634@harmony.village.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Warner Losh wrote: > > In message <200110152328.f9FNSmm74347@misha.privatelabs.com> mi@aldan.algebra.com writes: > : I don't like the "vaguesness" of this. Do other ratios work (even if > : slower), or do the trigger bugs nobody wants to chase? Just MHO, of > : course... > > other ratios do seem to work on systems that don't have a high disk > load. we've shipped systems with 4k/1k and haven't had problems with > that. If someone with more knowledge wants to modify the entry I made, my feelings certainly won't be hurt. My only purpose was not allowing this bit of wisdom to escape documentation, since it's obviously rather important. Doug -- "We will not tire, we will not falter, and we will not fail." - George W. Bush, President of the United States September 20, 2001 Do YOU Yahoo!? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Oct 15 20:42:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 690C437B405; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:42:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f9G3gLV07674; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 21:42:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9G3gK728360; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 21:42:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Message-Id: <200110160342.f9G3gK728360@harmony.village.org> To: Doug Barton Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c Cc: dillon@earth.backplane.com, cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:30:48 PDT." <3BCBA9E8.F0732E5B@DougBarton.net> References: <3BCBA9E8.F0732E5B@DougBarton.net> <200110152328.f9FNSmm74347@misha.privatelabs.com> <200110160153.f9G1rn727634@harmony.village.org> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 21:42:20 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <3BCBA9E8.F0732E5B@DougBarton.net> Doug Barton writes: : Warner Losh wrote: : > : > In message <200110152328.f9FNSmm74347@misha.privatelabs.com> mi@aldan.algebra.com writes: : > : I don't like the "vaguesness" of this. Do other ratios work (even if : > : slower), or do the trigger bugs nobody wants to chase? Just MHO, of : > : course... : > : > other ratios do seem to work on systems that don't have a high disk : > load. we've shipped systems with 4k/1k and haven't had problems with : > that. : : If someone with more knowledge wants to modify the entry I made, my : feelings certainly won't be hurt. My only purpose was not allowing this : bit of wisdom to escape documentation, since it's obviously rather : important. I'm starting to get the impression that the general wisdom on this is that there's something subtle that trips people up from time to time and that it is very hard to run into the conditions necessary for it to trip. The docs are ok after your change. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Oct 15 23: 2:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au (mailman.zeta.org.au [203.26.10.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFCF437B405; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 23:02:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bde.zeta.org.au (bde.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.102]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA27735; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 16:02:29 +1000 Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 16:01:40 +1000 (EST) From: Bruce Evans X-X-Sender: To: Matt Dillon Cc: Ollivier Robert , Peter Wemm , "David O'Brien" , , Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c In-Reply-To: <200110151607.f9FG7QL54919@earth.backplane.com> Message-ID: <20011016154235.N6619-100000@delplex.bde.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 15 Oct 2001, Matt Dillon wrote: > note: we shouldn't default to anything other then 8K/1K or 16K/2K. No > other combinations are optimal at the moment. This depends on the mix of file sizes, and probably on the drive. My benchmarks (made just after the dirpref changes) showed that 4K/2K, 8K/2K and 16K/2K are optimal for holding /usr/src, as measured by tarring up the src tree on a freshly mounted filesystem after just having written the src tree to an empty filesystem (the write speed is relatively sensitive to the layout). This is presumably caused by the average fragment size being related to 2K. ffs-4096-512: tar cf /dev/null src: 51.50 real 1.09 user 12.61 sys ffs-4096-1024: tar cf /dev/null src: 39.77 real 1.17 user 12.16 sys ffs-4096-2048: tar cf /dev/null src: 37.29 real 1.26 user 12.51 sys ffs-4096-4096: tar cf /dev/null src: 38.92 real 1.00 user 12.51 sys ffs-8192-1024: tar cf /dev/null src: 39.39 real 1.07 user 11.27 sys ffs-8192-2048: tar cf /dev/null src: 32.90 real 0.89 user 11.50 sys ffs-8192-4096: tar cf /dev/null src: 33.53 real 1.02 user 11.33 sys ffs-8192-8192: tar cf /dev/null src: 37.85 real 1.10 user 11.54 sys ffs-16384-2048: tar cf /dev/null src: 28.47 real 1.09 user 10.76 sys ffs-16384-4096: tar cf /dev/null src: 29.64 real 1.12 user 10.86 sys ffs-16384-8192: tar cf /dev/null src: 32.67 real 0.98 user 10.83 sys ffs-16384-16384: tar cf /dev/null src: 44.43 real 1.07 user 11.24 sys Note that the extremes of 4K:512 and 16K:16K are the worst, despite 4K:512 having the 8:1 ratio. The filesystem for this test was rather small (about 1GB) IIRC. Larger block sizes work relatively better for larger filesystems, not because they can be accessed more efficiently (clustering makes this advantage small), but because they reduce the number of cylinder groups by a small factor. The dirpref changes reduced this advantage significantly. Bruce To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Oct 16 0:35:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.noos.fr (racine.noos.net [212.198.2.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3962F37B401 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 00:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 6239709 invoked by uid 0); 16 Oct 2001 07:35:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gits.dyndns.org) ([212.198.231.187]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.71 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 16 Oct 2001 07:35:16 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by gits.dyndns.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9G7ZDK59504; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:35:13 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root) Message-Id: <200110160735.f9G7ZDK59504@gits.dyndns.org> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c In-Reply-To: <20011015215519.A394@student.uu.se> To: Erik Trulsson Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:35:12 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Matthew Jacob , cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Reply-To: clefevre@citeweb.net From: Cyrille Lefevre Organization: ACME X-Face: X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL94c (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Erik Trulsson wrote: > [ Cc: list trimmed] > > On Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 12:47:04PM -0700, Matthew Jacob wrote: > > > > There is a substantial amount of drives out there stil that are < 1GB. > > Also, consider floppy && SANdisk types of devices. > > > > > > > > > > Like 8k/1k for <1GB and 16k/2k for >1GB ? Can be done I think. I'll have a > > > > look at that but bde has probably already written that patch years ago :-) > > > > > > is this 1GB limit really accurate ? > > > do you know any todays drives lower than 4GB ? > > Also note that the limit discussed is for *filesystem* size. Not drive > size. Even if the disk itself might be quite large it is not unusual > that some of the filesystems on the disk are fairly small. > (For example '/' '/var' and '/tmp' are often separate > filesystems smaller than 1 GB.) oops, sorry, forgot about that %-| next time, I'll turn 7 times my fingers around the keyboard before to write something like this... Cyrille. -- Cyrille Lefevre mailto:clefevre@citeweb.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Oct 16 0:49:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7682F37B405; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 00:49:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9G7mTa04663; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:48:33 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Doug Barton Cc: Matt Dillon , Matthew Jacob , Peter Wemm , cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 15 Oct 2001 15:26:34 PDT." <3BCB629A.ACF72517@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:48:29 +0200 Message-ID: <4661.1003218509@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <3BCB629A.ACF72517@yahoo-inc.com>, Doug Barton writes: >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >--------------452C775F06A8B39928947702 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > What do you guys think of the attached patch? If this is such an >important issue, it should be documented. I for one am glad I saw this >discussion, because I'm looking at creating a custom file system for >about 300,000 files that are 400k or smaller. I'm looking to improve >file I/O performance, so I thought a smaller frag size might get things >packed in tighter... Bad idea. If !8:1 b:f ratios doesn't work it should be PR'ed and fixed, not canonified in a man-page. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Oct 16 1: 6:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au (mailman.zeta.org.au [203.26.10.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 636EA37B403; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 01:06:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bde.zeta.org.au (bde.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.102]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA10440; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 18:05:56 +1000 Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 18:05:07 +1000 (EST) From: Bruce Evans X-X-Sender: To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: Doug Barton , Matt Dillon , Matthew Jacob , Peter Wemm , , Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c In-Reply-To: <4661.1003218509@critter.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: <20011016180406.M7373-100000@delplex.bde.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 16 Oct 2001, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <3BCB629A.ACF72517@yahoo-inc.com>, Doug Barton writes: > > > > What do you guys think of the attached patch? If this is such an > >important issue, it should be documented. I for one am glad I saw this > >discussion, because I'm looking at creating a custom file system for > >about 300,000 files that are 400k or smaller. I'm looking to improve > >file I/O performance, so I thought a smaller frag size might get things > >packed in tighter... > > Bad idea. > > If !8:1 b:f ratios doesn't work it should be PR'ed and fixed, not > canonified in a man-page. It would be OK in the FUD section of the man page :-). Bruce To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Oct 16 3:20: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from axl.seasidesoftware.co.za (axl.seasidesoftware.co.za [196.31.7.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DC8437B403; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 03:19:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.seasidesoftware.co.za) by axl.seasidesoftware.co.za with local-esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 15tRJm-00066l-00; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 12:19:26 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: Doug Barton , Matt Dillon , Matthew Jacob , Peter Wemm , cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:48:29 +0200." <4661.1003218509@critter.freebsd.dk> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 12:19:26 +0200 Message-ID: <23482.1003227566@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:48:29 +0200, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > Bad idea. > > If !8:1 b:f ratios doesn't work it should be PR'ed and fixed, not > canonified in a man-page. Spoken like a true hacker. :-) This has been a known (albeit poorly understood) problem for a very long time. I understand that you fear this problem becoming a feature through documentation, but the alternative is that the problem continues to bite new-comers in the ass indefinitely. I say the documentation should reflect reality. Perhaps it'll annoy someone like you enough to investigate and fix the problem. :-) Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Oct 16 3:30:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A759337B407; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 03:30:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9GATea07609; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 12:29:42 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: Doug Barton , Matt Dillon , Matthew Jacob , Peter Wemm , cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 16 Oct 2001 12:19:26 +0200." <23482.1003227566@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 12:29:40 +0200 Message-ID: <7607.1003228180@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <23482.1003227566@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za>, Sheldon Hearn writes: > > >On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:48:29 +0200, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > >> Bad idea. >> >> If !8:1 b:f ratios doesn't work it should be PR'ed and fixed, not >> canonified in a man-page. > >Spoken like a true hacker. :-) > >This has been a known (albeit poorly understood) problem for a very long >time. I understand that you fear this problem becoming a feature >through documentation, but the alternative is that the problem continues >to bite new-comers in the ass indefinitely. So far, I have nothing which even makes me suspect that b:f ratio introduces bugs. There have been so many other issues during the same period that I think there is no basis for the claim. That is why I'm against canonifying this bit of FUD in the manpage. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Oct 16 3:34:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from axl.seasidesoftware.co.za (axl.seasidesoftware.co.za [196.31.7.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B73C937B401; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 03:34:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.seasidesoftware.co.za) by axl.seasidesoftware.co.za with local-esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 15tRYX-0006L7-00; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 12:34:41 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: Doug Barton , Matt Dillon , Matthew Jacob , Peter Wemm , cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Oct 2001 12:29:40 +0200." <7607.1003228180@critter.freebsd.dk> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 12:34:41 +0200 Message-ID: <24372.1003228481@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 12:29:40 +0200, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > So far, I have nothing which even makes me suspect that b:f ratio > introduces bugs. There have been so many other issues during the > same period that I think there is no basis for the claim. Ah, that's a new argument I haven't seen until now. Your objection to the documentation change makes more sense to me now. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Oct 16 7:56:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6896A37B40F; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 07:56:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f9GEuQV09991; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:56:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9GEuG731936; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:56:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Message-Id: <200110161456.f9GEuG731936@harmony.village.org> To: Poul-Henning Kamp Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c Cc: Doug Barton , Matt Dillon , Matthew Jacob , Peter Wemm , cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:48:29 +0200." <4661.1003218509@critter.freebsd.dk> References: <4661.1003218509@critter.freebsd.dk> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:56:16 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <4661.1003218509@critter.freebsd.dk> Poul-Henning Kamp writes: : If !8:1 b:f ratios doesn't work it should be PR'ed and fixed, not : canonified in a man-page. They work for most people, and the non-working cases are not reproducible well enough to know for sure where (or if) there's a bug to fix. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Oct 16 8: 8:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DDD637B405; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:08:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9GF82a11559; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 17:08:03 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Warner Losh Cc: Doug Barton , Matt Dillon , Matthew Jacob , Peter Wemm , cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:56:16 MDT." <200110161456.f9GEuG731936@harmony.village.org> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 17:08:02 +0200 Message-ID: <11557.1003244882@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <200110161456.f9GEuG731936@harmony.village.org>, Warner Losh writes: >In message <4661.1003218509@critter.freebsd.dk> Poul-Henning Kamp writes: >: If !8:1 b:f ratios doesn't work it should be PR'ed and fixed, not >: canonified in a man-page. > >They work for most people, and the non-working cases are not >reproducible well enough to know for sure where (or if) there's a bug >to fix. Sure, we have had various random problems, but that has never made us add FUD warnings to the cat(1) manpage... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Oct 16 9:27:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from femail26.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail26.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE0A337B412 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:27:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx ([24.2.39.156]) by femail26.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011016162708.VXPH2746.femail26.sdc1.sfba.home.com@laptop.baldwin.cx>; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:27:08 -0700 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20011014201400.A49458@iguana.aciri.org> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:27:07 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: Luigi Rizzo Subject: RE: where to put support for timestamping kernel events ? Cc: arch@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 15-Oct-01 Luigi Rizzo wrote: > [Apparently this kind of question is better asked on -arch, > so sorry for the repost, here it goes again... and in the meantime > i have had some time to elaborate on names and locations.] Note that KTR has somewhat similar support for this, though it currently doesn't use the TSC. It could be changed to use cpu_cyclecount() (which is a MI interface which uses the TSC when it can) perhaps which might help. Unfortunately, the KTR buffr isn't exported via sysctl(8) at the moment. -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Oct 16 10: 8:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from iguana.aciri.org (iguana.aciri.org [192.150.187.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36D9537B40A; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 10:08:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rizzo@localhost) by iguana.aciri.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f9GH5KO64574; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 10:05:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rizzo) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 10:05:20 -0700 From: Luigi Rizzo To: John Baldwin Cc: Luigi Rizzo , arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: where to put support for timestamping kernel events ? Message-ID: <20011016100520.E63982@iguana.aciri.org> References: <20011014201400.A49458@iguana.aciri.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Oct 16, 2001 at 09:27:07AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote: > > On 15-Oct-01 Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > [Apparently this kind of question is better asked on -arch, > > so sorry for the repost, here it goes again... and in the meantime > > i have had some time to elaborate on names and locations.] > > Note that KTR has somewhat similar support for this, though it currently what is KTR ? any pointers ? (sorry but i am not familiar with -current, where this seems to be...) > doesn't use the TSC. It could be changed to use cpu_cyclecount() (which is a > MI interface which uses the TSC when it can) perhaps which might help. > Unfortunately, the KTR buffr isn't exported via sysctl(8) at the moment. well, the sysctl export is really trivial to do. cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Oct 16 10:34: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from green.bikeshed.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C65B37B40D; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 10:34:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (green@localhost) by green.bikeshed.org (8.11.4/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f9GHY2A83434; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 13:34:02 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from green@green.bikeshed.org) Message-Id: <200110161734.f9GHY2A83434@green.bikeshed.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: chris@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Merging fdescfs. In-Reply-To: Message from Chris Costello of "Mon, 15 Oct 2001 21:27:35 CDT." <20011015212735.A6252@holly.calldei.com> From: "Brian F. Feldman" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 13:34:01 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chris Costello wrote: > On Thursday, October 11, 2001, Chris Costello wrote: > > This also means that there are no longer any `tty', `stdin' or > > `stdout' nodes in fdescfs. > > Anybody? If there is no response to this, I will merge this > in seven days (October 22, 2001). I'll register my lack of objection, if that counts ;) -- Brian Fundakowski Feldman \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! / green@FreeBSD.org `------------------------------' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Oct 16 10:34:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from femail27.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail27.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 517F937B409 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 10:34:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx ([24.2.39.156]) by femail27.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011016173418.YGNO12089.femail27.sdc1.sfba.home.com@laptop.baldwin.cx>; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 10:34:18 -0700 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20011016100520.E63982@iguana.aciri.org> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 10:34:18 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: Luigi Rizzo Subject: Re: where to put support for timestamping kernel events ? Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 16-Oct-01 Luigi Rizzo wrote: > On Tue, Oct 16, 2001 at 09:27:07AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote: >> >> On 15-Oct-01 Luigi Rizzo wrote: >> > [Apparently this kind of question is better asked on -arch, >> > so sorry for the repost, here it goes again... and in the meantime >> > i have had some time to elaborate on names and locations.] >> >> Note that KTR has somewhat similar support for this, though it currently > > what is KTR ? any pointers ? (sorry but i am not familiar > with -current, where this seems to be...) KTR is an kernel event trace mechanism. current includes both ktr(4) and ktr(9) manpages. It basically allows you to log events in a printf-style fashion in the kernel including a timestamp among other things. >> doesn't use the TSC. It could be changed to use cpu_cyclecount() (which is >> a >> MI interface which uses the TSC when it can) perhaps which might help. >> Unfortunately, the KTR buffr isn't exported via sysctl(8) at the moment. > > well, the sysctl export is really trivial to do. Except on an SMP system when aother CPU may be sticking items in the buffer while you are exporting it. > cheers > luigi -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Oct 16 10:49:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from iguana.aciri.org (iguana.aciri.org [192.150.187.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C1F437B403; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 10:49:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rizzo@localhost) by iguana.aciri.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f9GHk1N64877; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 10:46:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rizzo) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 10:46:01 -0700 From: Luigi Rizzo To: John Baldwin Cc: Luigi Rizzo , arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: where to put support for timestamping kernel events ? Message-ID: <20011016104601.F63982@iguana.aciri.org> References: <20011016100520.E63982@iguana.aciri.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Oct 16, 2001 at 10:34:18AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote: > > > > what is KTR ? any pointers ? (sorry but i am not familiar > > with -current, where this seems to be...) > > KTR is an kernel event trace mechanism. current includes both ktr(4) and > ktr(9) manpages. It basically allows you to log events in a printf-style > fashion in the kernel including a timestamp among other things. i see. The thing i was suggesting is much more lightweight (and faster i presume). > >> Unfortunately, the KTR buffr isn't exported via sysctl(8) at the moment. > > > > well, the sysctl export is really trivial to do. > > Except on an SMP system when aother CPU may be sticking items in the buffer > while you are exporting it. isn't that true for all sysctl-exported items ? Actually, the problem i see for exporting the buffer is that in one of the modes (!KTR_EXTEND) it stores references to kernel addresses into the buffer, so you need a bit of in-kernel processing to make this info useful for userland (presumably using a SYSCTL_PROC thing to do this processing and return some significant info). Anyways -- it looks like the timestamping i was suggesting can be incorporated in ktr, and ktr-like things can be then MFC-ed to stable. Any objections to this ? cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Oct 16 13: 9:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8582A37B405 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 13:09:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.11.6/8.11.5) with SMTP id f9GK8rB17954; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 16:08:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 16:08:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Peter Wemm Cc: Luigi Rizzo , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: exporting device info via sysctl ? In-Reply-To: <20011015051637.C7581380F@overcee.netplex.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 14 Oct 2001, Peter Wemm wrote: > Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > I seem to remember a discussion from some time ago about exporting > > device information via sysctl. Given that now there has been > > dynamic sysctl support for a while, the thing would be feasible > > (e.g. dynamically creating an hw. subtree), > > and possibly useful to get/set some more info on devices. > > > > Has there been any followup on this ? Would people be happy > > to have them ? > > Check out /usr/sbin/devinfo and devinfo(3).. Spiffy, I didn't know about that. However, the devinfo command appears not to have a man page. Would be nice if it could also export a string on what exactly the device is--dmesg is pretty bad for this sort of thing, and devinfo looks a lot better :-). Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Oct 16 15:12:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mass.dis.org (mass.dis.org [216.240.45.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1215437B407; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 15:12:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mass.dis.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.dis.org (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f9GMNcr03750; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 15:23:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Message-Id: <200110162223.f9GMNcr03750@mass.dis.org> To: Robert Watson Cc: Peter Wemm , Luigi Rizzo , arch@FreeBSD.ORG, msmith@mass.dis.org Subject: Re: exporting device info via sysctl ? In-Reply-To: Message from Robert Watson of "Tue, 16 Oct 2001 16:08:52 EDT." Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 15:23:38 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Check out /usr/sbin/devinfo and devinfo(3).. > > Spiffy, I didn't know about that. However, the devinfo command appears > not to have a man page. Would be nice if it could also export a string on > what exactly the device is--dmesg is pretty bad for this sort of thing, > and devinfo looks a lot better :-). devinfo is probably worthy of a junior hacker project; it needs a manpage and some extensions, as well as some fixes (eg. it doesn't deal well with shared resources). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Oct 16 15:58:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D33F137B412 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 15:58:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx ([24.2.39.156]) by femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011016225832.LAND20013.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@laptop.baldwin.cx>; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 15:58:32 -0700 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20011016104601.F63982@iguana.aciri.org> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 15:58:32 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: Luigi Rizzo Subject: Re: where to put support for timestamping kernel events ? Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 16-Oct-01 Luigi Rizzo wrote: > On Tue, Oct 16, 2001 at 10:34:18AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote: >> > >> > what is KTR ? any pointers ? (sorry but i am not familiar >> > with -current, where this seems to be...) >> >> KTR is an kernel event trace mechanism. current includes both ktr(4) and >> ktr(9) manpages. It basically allows you to log events in a printf-style >> fashion in the kernel including a timestamp among other things. > > i see. The thing i was suggesting is much more lightweight (and > faster i presume). Yes, it might very well be. Esp. more so than the KTR_EXTEND version. The !KTR_EXTEND case needs a hacked up printf(), however, that accepts it's arguments as longs and only uses the types in the format string for casting and rendering purposes. >> >> Unfortunately, the KTR buffr isn't exported via sysctl(8) at the moment. >> > >> > well, the sysctl export is really trivial to do. >> >> Except on an SMP system when aother CPU may be sticking items in the buffer >> while you are exporting it. > > isn't that true for all sysctl-exported items ? > > Actually, the problem i see for exporting the buffer is that in > one of the modes (!KTR_EXTEND) it stores references to kernel > addresses into the buffer, so you need a bit of in-kernel processing > to make this info useful for userland (presumably using a SYSCTL_PROC > thing to do this processing and return some significant info). > > Anyways -- it looks like the timestamping i was suggesting can > be incorporated in ktr, and ktr-like things can be then MFC-ed > to stable. Any objections to this ? KTR already has the timestamping, so it is probably fine. One problem is that the current timestamping is done solely with the timecounter code, not using the cyclecounts. It might be feasible to change it to use a cycle count that use the get_cyclecount() function in machine/cpu.h. However, that is subject to the recursion on the clock lock problem for the KTR_LOCK case in nanotime() if the TSC isn't present. The KTR code on 4.x probably won't need the atomic_cmpset() or the critical seciton stuff (just use splhigh() instead) so long as it is always used under the Giant lock. > cheers > luigi -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Oct 16 23: 2: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au (mailman.zeta.org.au [203.26.10.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FF4B37B407; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 23:02:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bde.zeta.org.au (bde.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.102]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA02519; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 16:01:55 +1000 Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 16:01:05 +1000 (EST) From: Bruce Evans X-X-Sender: To: John Baldwin Cc: Luigi Rizzo , Subject: Re: where to put support for timestamping kernel events ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20011017154118.A14701-100000@delplex.bde.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 16 Oct 2001, John Baldwin wrote: > On 16-Oct-01 Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 16, 2001 at 09:27:07AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote: > >> > >> On 15-Oct-01 Luigi Rizzo wrote: > >> > [Apparently this kind of question is better asked on -arch, > >> > so sorry for the repost, here it goes again... and in the meantime > >> > i have had some time to elaborate on names and locations.] In your tree seems to be the best place to put it. I have almost identical code in my tree in the fd driver (fd_event()), and a modified version of it for interrupt threads (it_event()), and somewhat different versions of it in the da driver and the (obsolete) wd driver, all with private buffers (currently mostly hard-coded down to size 1 event since I'm not using them). I feel that generalizing this with lose most of the benefits of it (simple interface, efficiency, and tailoring to the type of events being monitored, including separate buffers). > >> Note that KTR has somewhat similar support for this, though it currently > > > > what is KTR ? any pointers ? (sorry but i am not familiar > > with -current, where this seems to be...) > > KTR is an kernel event trace mechanism. current includes both ktr(4) and > ktr(9) manpages. It basically allows you to log events in a printf-style > fashion in the kernel including a timestamp among other things. KTR already loses all the benefits so it doesn't need to be reinvented :-). > >> doesn't use the TSC. It could be changed to use cpu_cyclecount() (which is > >> a > >> MI interface which uses the TSC when it can) perhaps which might help. > >> Unfortunately, the KTR buffr isn't exported via sysctl(8) at the moment. > > > > well, the sysctl export is really trivial to do. > > Except on an SMP system when aother CPU may be sticking items in the buffer > while you are exporting it. The TSC and cpu_getcyclecount() don't work right (for this) under SMP either. KTR is correct to not use them. After you wrap get_cyclecount() with the #ifdef and "if ()" mess to make it portable, it would be little faster than nanotime() or timecounter->tc_get_timecounter() (the latter is almost just rdtsc() indirectly through a function call if possible). Bruce To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 17 4:10:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from w3405.hostcentric.net (w3405.hostcentric.net [216.157.69.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C710537B409 for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 04:10:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by w3405.hostcentric.net (8.10.1/8.9.0) id f9HBAFt18393 for freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 07:10:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 07:10:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200110171110.f9HBAFt18393@w3405.hostcentric.net> From: sales@L5Software.com (L5 Software Development) Subject: Can we help you find more customers? To: undisclosed-recipients:; Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG 

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To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 17 6:50:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from w3405.hostcentric.net (w3405.hostcentric.net [216.157.69.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74E6337B40C for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 06:50:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by w3405.hostcentric.net (8.10.1/8.9.0) id f9HDoCG23803 for freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 09:50:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 09:50:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200110171350.f9HDoCG23803@w3405.hostcentric.net> From: sales@L5Software.com (L5 Software Development) Subject: Can we help you find more customers? To: undisclosed-recipients:; Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG 

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MCspider(tm) is guaranteed to perform substantially as is described in its documentation, and on its Web page.  Note that this is different from what seems to have become an "industry standard" - the practice of selling software "as-is," without any warranty.  (Have you really read any of the license agreements for software you purchased recently?)  Only by purchasing software from vendors who offer to stand behind their products with a viable warranty can you, the consumer, do anything to combat the proliferation of the "crapware" so common in today's marketplace.

MCspider(tm) was officially released on October 5, 2001 for US$ 249.00 per copy.  However, because of some technical problems with our ordering system, we have decided to extend our pre-release offer until October 20:  Any paid orders received before that date will be granted a 60% discount - only US$ 99.00 per copy.  Please be advised this offer is definitely going to expire at the end of the day Oct. 19.

Act now!  Don't miss out on this special offer!  Go to  http://L5Software.com/go?MCspider  to order your pre-release priced copy today!

In case you're wondering how we got your email address, MCspider(tm) found it in one of the searches we had it do.  The program does work, and quite well!




If you want to be excluded from future mailings by L5Software.com, please go to  http://L5Software.com/cgibin/MailRemove.cgi?freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org  to add your address to our list of blocked email addresses.

________________________________________________________________
L5 Software Development - "out of this world" sites and software

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To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 17 7:58:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx.wgate.com (mail.wgate.com [38.219.83.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1741D37B429 for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 07:58:12 -0700 (PDT) To: Matt Dillon Cc: "David O'Brien" , cvs-committers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: From MAIL.TVOL.NET (10.1.1.4[10.1.1.4 port:4904]) by mx.wgate.comMail essentials (server 2.429) with SMTP id: <4239@mx.wgate.com>transfer for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:56:07 AM -0400 ;transfer smtpmailfrom X-MESINK_Inbound: 0 X-MESINK_MailForType: SMTP X-MESINK_SenderType: SMTP X-MESINK_Sender: rjesup@wgate.com X-MESINK_MailFor: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from jesup.eng.tvol.net ([10.32.2.26]) by mail.tvol.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13)id 4W7T4HS2; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 12:03:45 -0400 Reply-To: Randell Jesup Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c References: <200110110851.f9B8ptf60343@freefall.freebsd.org><20011011112527.A54224@coffee.q9media.com><20011011154203.C44561@dragon.nuxi.com><20011013143225.B4527@ns2.freenix.org><20011013172706.A53976@dragon.nuxi.com><20011014160303.A22301@ns2.freenix.org><20011014194232.A50125@dragon.nuxi.com><00005ba2015f4b07d1@[192.168.1.4]> From: Randell Jesup Date: 16 Oct 2001 12:11:29 -0400 In-Reply-To: Matt Dillon's message of "Sun, 14 Oct 2001 19:56:53 -0700 (PDT)" User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii x-receiver: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG x-sender: rjesup@wgate.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <0000156d03191407d1@[192.168.1.4]> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matt Dillon writes: >:> It has been said in the lists many times that 16k/2k is more efficient >:> (and I'm using it myself by defautl now). > You can use 16K/2K safely. Anything larger may fragment the buffer > cache's KVA space and create issues. There are no known bugs (other > then fragmentation), but people have sporatically reported weirdness > with other combinations. There have been no solid bug reports. > From disklabel.c after my mods from a year or so ago: (these are for >1GB partitions) #define BIG_NEWFS_BLOCK 16384U #define BIG_NEWFS_FRAG 4096U #define BIG_NEWFS_CPG 64U You (and others) passed on these patches; the 16k/4k/64 values I took (except for cpg) from the CVS log for /usr/src/release/sysinstall/install.c= (now in Attic). : Revision 1.244 Thu Aug 5 19:50:25 1999 UTC (2 years, 2 months ago) by phk= : : Make the newfs parameters a global option. : : The default is still "-b 8192 -f 1024" but my experiments show that : "-b 16384 -f 4096 -c 100" is a more sensible value for modern : disksizes. So, do we really have problems with 16k/4k/64? If so, let's fix the proble= ms. Or should we reduce the defaults to 16k/2k? If so, what about existing FS's with these values? If values above that are broken, should we disable them in newfs, or at least print a warning? -- Randell Jesup, Worldgate Communications, ex-Scala, ex-Amiga OS team rjesup@wgate.com "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safet= y deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 17 7:58:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx.wgate.com (mail.wgate.com [38.219.83.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BA07E37B405 for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 07:58:24 -0700 (PDT) To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Matt Dillon Received: From MAIL.TVOL.NET (10.1.1.4[10.1.1.4 port:4904]) by mx.wgate.comMail essentials (server 2.429) with SMTP id: <4240@mx.wgate.com>transfer for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:56:07 AM -0400 ;transfer smtpmailfrom X-MESINK_Inbound: 0 X-MESINK_MailForType: SMTP X-MESINK_SenderType: SMTP X-MESINK_Sender: rjesup@wgate.com X-MESINK_MailFor: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from jesup.eng.tvol.net ([10.32.2.26]) by mail.tvol.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13)id 4W7T4SA9; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:32:30 -0400 Reply-To: Randell Jesup Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c References: <200110110851.f9B8ptf60343@freefall.freebsd.org><20011011112527.A54224@coffee.q9media.com><20011011154203.C44561@dragon.nuxi.com><20011013143225.B4527@ns2.freenix.org><20011013172706.A53976@dragon.nuxi.com><20011014160303.A22301@ns2.freenix.org><20011014194232.A50125@dragon.nuxi.com><00005ba2015f4b07d1@[192.168.1.4]> From: Randell Jesup Date: 17 Oct 2001 10:40:19 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii x-receiver: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG x-sender: rjesup@wgate.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <0000157003191707d1@[192.168.1.4]> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Resend: It appears that the mailer at freebsd.org doesn't like my company's= mailer and/or reverse-DNS info. Matt; if this doesn't show up in -arch, please post it on my behalf. Matt Dillon writes: >:> It has been said in the lists many times that 16k/2k is more efficient >:> (and I'm using it myself by defautl now). > You can use 16K/2K safely. Anything larger may fragment the buffer > cache's KVA space and create issues. There are no known bugs (other > then fragmentation), but people have sporatically reported weirdness > with other combinations. There have been no solid bug reports. > From disklabel.c after my mods from a year or so ago: (these are for >1GB partitions) #define BIG_NEWFS_BLOCK 16384U #define BIG_NEWFS_FRAG 4096U #define BIG_NEWFS_CPG 64U You (and others) passed on these patches; the 16k/4k/64 values I took (except for cpg) from the CVS log for /usr/src/release/sysinstall/install.c= (now in Attic). : Revision 1.244 Thu Aug 5 19:50:25 1999 UTC (2 years, 2 months ago) by phk= : : Make the newfs parameters a global option. : : The default is still "-b 8192 -f 1024" but my experiments show that : "-b 16384 -f 4096 -c 100" is a more sensible value for modern : disksizes. So, do we really have problems with 16k/4k/64? If so, let's fix the proble= ms. Or should we reduce the defaults to 16k/2k? If so, what about existing FS's with these values? If values above that are broken, should we disable them in newfs, or at least print a warning? -- Randell Jesup, Worldgate Communications, ex-Scala, ex-Amiga OS team rjesup@wgate.com "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safet= y deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 17 10:39: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D95A37B408 for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:38:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.11.6/8.9.1) id f9HHctk99143; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:38:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:38:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200110171738.f9HHctk99143@apollo.backplane.com> To: Randell Jesup Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c References: <200110110851.f9B8ptf60343@freefall.freebsd.org><20011011112527.A54224@coffee.q9media.com><20011011154203.C44561@dragon.nuxi.com><20011013143225.B4527@ns2.freenix.org><20011013172706.A53976@dragon.nuxi.com><20011014160303.A22301@ns2.freenix.org><20011014194232.A50125@dragon.nuxi.com><00005ba2015f4b07d1@[192.168.1.4]> <0000157003191707d1@[192.168.1.4]> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Resend: It appears that the mailer at freebsd.org doesn't like my company's :mailer and/or reverse-DNS info. Matt; if this doesn't show up in -arch, :please post it on my behalf. It showed up. :>From disklabel.c after my mods from a year or so ago: :(these are for >1GB partitions) : :#define BIG_NEWFS_BLOCK 16384U :#define BIG_NEWFS_FRAG 4096U :#define BIG_NEWFS_CPG 64U : :You (and others) passed on these patches; the 16k/4k/64 values I took :(except for cpg) from the CVS log for /usr/src/release/sysinstall/install.c :(now in Attic). : :: Revision 1.244 Thu Aug 5 19:50:25 1999 UTC (2 years, 2 months ago) by phk :: :: Make the newfs parameters a global option. :: :: The default is still "-b 8192 -f 1024" but my experiments show that :: "-b 16384 -f 4096 -c 100" is a more sensible value for modern :: disksizes. : :So, do we really have problems with 16k/4k/64? If so, let's fix the problems. :Or should we reduce the defaults to 16k/2k? If so, what about existing :FS's with these values? If values above that are broken, should we :disable them in newfs, or at least print a warning? : :-- :Randell Jesup, Worldgate Communications, ex-Scala, ex-Amiga OS team The answer is: we don't know. We *used* to have problems with non 8:1 ratios, but nobody has done any definitive tests recently and despite Poul's labeling it all FUD, I am unwilling to allow newfs to default to anything other then an 8:1 ratio. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 17 11:19:49 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from w3405.hostcentric.net (w3405.hostcentric.net [216.157.69.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EF1037B405 for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 11:19:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by w3405.hostcentric.net (8.10.1/8.9.0) id f9HIJJq09926 for freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:19:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:19:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200110171819.f9HIJJq09926@w3405.hostcentric.net> From: sales@L5Software.com (L5 Software Development) Subject: Can we help you find more customers? To: undisclosed-recipients:; Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG 

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MCspider(tm) is guaranteed to perform substantially as is described in its documentation, and on its Web page.  Note that this is different from what seems to have become an "industry standard" - the practice of selling software "as-is," without any warranty.  (Have you really read any of the license agreements for software you purchased recently?)  Only by purchasing software from vendors who offer to stand behind their products with a viable warranty can you, the consumer, do anything to combat the proliferation of the "crapware" so common in today's marketplace.

MCspider(tm) was officially released on October 5, 2001 for US$ 249.00 per copy.  However, because of some technical problems with our ordering system, we have decided to extend our pre-release offer until October 20:  Any paid orders received before that date will be granted a 60% discount - only US$ 99.00 per copy.  Please be advised this offer is definitely going to expire at the end of the day Oct. 19.

Act now!  Don't miss out on this special offer!  Go to  http://L5Software.com/go?MCspider  to order your pre-release priced copy today!

In case you're wondering how we got your email address, MCspider(tm) found it in one of the searches we had it do.  The program does work, and quite well!




If you want to be excluded from future mailings by L5Software.com, please go to  http://L5Software.com/cgibin/MailRemove.cgi?freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org  to add your address to our list of blocked email addresses.

________________________________________________________________
L5 Software Development - "out of this world" sites and software

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To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 17 11:29:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from nagual.pp.ru (pobrecita.freebsd.ru [194.87.13.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 530D837B403 for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 11:29:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ache@localhost) by nagual.pp.ru (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9HITcm50512 for arch@freebsd.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 22:29:38 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from ache) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 22:29:37 +0400 From: "Andrey A. Chernov" To: arch@freebsd.org Subject: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned Message-ID: <20011017222937.A50452@nagual.pp.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Forwarded to -arch per Mike Barcroft request. ----- Forwarded message from "Andrey A. Chernov" ----- Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 15:58:55 +0400 From: "Andrey A. Chernov" Subject: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned To: ports@FreeBSD.ORG, developers@FreeBSD.ORG Due to Apache mis-use of nobody:nogroup UID/GID (user nobody must not own any file in the system), I plan switch apache to www:www instead. It breaks some related ports and they should be fixed by their maintainers. Moreover, it breaks existen cgi-bin-write setups too, group nogroup should be changed to www by webmasters. Questions are: What is the best way to _automatically_ add www:www to /etc/{passwd,group}? I think about 'pw' command, but it will be nice if somebody already have working example. I plan to add www:www to default etc directory passwd/group too. What is the best numerical value, if any, for www UID/GID? Any other comments, of course, welcome. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://ache.pp.ru/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-ports" in the body of the message ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Andrey A. Chernov http://ache.pp.ru/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 17 12:54:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ctonet.it (mail.ctonet.it [212.110.160.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B793F37B403 for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:54:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from olgeni.olgeni (ppp-90.dial2.ctonet.it [212.110.177.90]) by mail.ctonet.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFCA912683; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:54:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by olgeni.olgeni (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9HJsU109247; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:54:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from olgeni@uli.it) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:54:30 +0200 (CEST) From: Jimmy Olgeni X-X-Sender: olgeni@olgeni.olgeni To: "Andrey A. Chernov" Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned In-Reply-To: <20011017222937.A50452@nagual.pp.ru> Message-ID: <20011017215303.V8775-100000@olgeni.olgeni> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 17 Oct 2001, Andrey A. Chernov wrote: > /etc/{passwd,group}? I think about 'pw' command, but it will be nice if > somebody already have working example. I usually borrow from the databases/postgresql pkg-install script, it's nicely done. > I plan to add www:www to default etc directory passwd/group too. What is > the best numerical value, if any, for www UID/GID? What about 80:80? Bind is already 53:53 :o) -- jimmy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 17 15:10: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B966537B403 for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 15:09:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9HM9bs28037; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 17:09:37 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 17:09:37 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: Jimmy Olgeni Cc: "Andrey A. Chernov" , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned Message-ID: <20011017170937.F91685@dan.emsphone.com> References: <20011017222937.A50452@nagual.pp.ru> <20011017215303.V8775-100000@olgeni.olgeni> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20011017215303.V8775-100000@olgeni.olgeni> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i X-OS: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT X-message-flag: Outlook Error Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the last episode (Oct 17), Jimmy Olgeni said: > On Wed, 17 Oct 2001, Andrey A. Chernov wrote: > > /etc/{passwd,group}? I think about 'pw' command, but it will be > > nice if somebody already have working example. > > I usually borrow from the databases/postgresql pkg-install script, > it's nicely done. > > > I plan to add www:www to default etc directory passwd/group too. > > What is the best numerical value, if any, for www UID/GID? > > What about 80:80? Bind is already 53:53 :o) The apache13-fp port creates apache:apache at 80:80, so there's a precedent for 80:80. I dislike hardcoding the httpd name though; how about using www:www and changing the apache13-fp port to match? -- Dan Nelson dnelson@allantgroup.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 17 15:12: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from nagual.pp.ru (pobrecita.freebsd.ru [194.87.13.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DF9437B401 for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 15:11:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ache@localhost) by nagual.pp.ru (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9HMBlY53715; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 02:11:47 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from ache) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 02:11:45 +0400 From: "Andrey A. Chernov" To: Dan Nelson Cc: Jimmy Olgeni , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned Message-ID: <20011018021143.A53647@nagual.pp.ru> References: <20011017222937.A50452@nagual.pp.ru> <20011017215303.V8775-100000@olgeni.olgeni> <20011017170937.F91685@dan.emsphone.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20011017170937.F91685@dan.emsphone.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 17:09:37 -0500, Dan Nelson wrote: > In the last episode (Oct 17), Jimmy Olgeni said: > > On Wed, 17 Oct 2001, Andrey A. Chernov wrote: > > > /etc/{passwd,group}? I think about 'pw' command, but it will be > > > nice if somebody already have working example. > > > > I usually borrow from the databases/postgresql pkg-install script, > > it's nicely done. > > > > > I plan to add www:www to default etc directory passwd/group too. > > > What is the best numerical value, if any, for www UID/GID? > > > > What about 80:80? Bind is already 53:53 :o) > > The apache13-fp port creates apache:apache at 80:80, so there's a > precedent for 80:80. I dislike hardcoding the httpd name though; how > about using www:www and changing the apache13-fp port to match? Yes, www:www not for apache only but for _any_ httpd we have in ports. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://ache.pp.ru/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 17 17:48:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B42AC37B403 for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 17:48:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 635416AB08; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:18:28 +0930 (CST) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:18:28 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: /usr/src/sys/scripts? Message-ID: <20011018101828.A88312@wantadilla.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG BSD/OS has a directory /usr/src/sys/scripts which contains macros for kernel debugging. I have a number of macros here that I've accumulated over time, and I'd like to commit them. I'd also like to modify config(8) to install a .gdbinit in the kernel build directory if debugging has been specified; the .gdbinit would load macros from ../../scripts in order to help with kernel debugging. Comments? Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 17 17:53:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from noao.edu (noao.edu [140.252.1.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7E3537B403 for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 17:53:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from regulus.tuc.noao.edu (account grandi [140.252.1.146] verified) by noao.edu (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5b5) with ESMTP-TLS id 2225068 for arch@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 17:53:27 -0700 Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 17:53:27 -0700 (MST) From: Steve Grandi X-X-Sender: grandi@regulus.tuc.noao.edu To: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned In-Reply-To: <20011018021143.A53647@nagual.pp.ru> Message-ID: <20011017174800.V68105-100000@regulus.tuc.noao.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sigh: I've had UID 80 here at NOAO for 18 years (since 4.1BSD days on a VAX). Time for a change! What is the "upper limit" for system UIDs and where is it documented? On Thu, 18 Oct 2001, Andrey A. Chernov wrote: > On Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 17:09:37 -0500, Dan Nelson wrote: > > In the last episode (Oct 17), Jimmy Olgeni said: > > > On Wed, 17 Oct 2001, Andrey A. Chernov wrote: > > > > /etc/{passwd,group}? I think about 'pw' command, but it will be > > > > nice if somebody already have working example. > > > > > > I usually borrow from the databases/postgresql pkg-install script, > > > it's nicely done. > > > > > > > I plan to add www:www to default etc directory passwd/group too. > > > > What is the best numerical value, if any, for www UID/GID? > > > > > > What about 80:80? Bind is already 53:53 :o) > > > > The apache13-fp port creates apache:apache at 80:80, so there's a > > precedent for 80:80. I dislike hardcoding the httpd name though; how > > about using www:www and changing the apache13-fp port to match? > > Yes, www:www not for apache only but for _any_ httpd we have in ports. > -- Steve Grandi National Optical Astronomy Observatory/AURA Inc., Tucson AZ USA Internet: grandi@noao.edu Voice: +1 520 318-8228 FAX: +1 520 318-8360 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 17 17:53:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from beastie.mckusick.com (beastie.mckusick.com [209.31.233.184]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C21737B407 for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 17:53:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from beastie.mckusick.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beastie.mckusick.com (8.11.4/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f9I0rcR48167; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 17:53:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mckusick@beastie.mckusick.com) Message-Id: <200110180053.f9I0rcR48167@beastie.mckusick.com> To: Greg Lehey Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/scripts? Cc: FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:18:28 +0930." <20011018101828.A88312@wantadilla.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 17:53:38 -0700 From: Kirk McKusick Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:18:28 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: /usr/src/sys/scripts? BSD/OS has a directory /usr/src/sys/scripts which contains macros for kernel debugging. I have a number of macros here that I've accumulated over time, and I'd like to commit them. I'd also like to modify config(8) to install a .gdbinit in the kernel build directory if debugging has been specified; the .gdbinit would load macros from ../../scripts in order to help with kernel debugging. Comments? Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers I think that this is a very good idea. I have a large batch of filesystem data structure printing macros and a few other that I would be happy to contribute. Kirk McKusick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 17 18:11:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (pc-62-31-42-140-hy.blueyonder.co.uk [62.31.42.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBFF237B401 for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 18:11:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f9I135288603; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 02:03:05 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 02:03:05 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Greg Lehey Cc: FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/scripts? Message-ID: <20011018020305.L88453@clan.nothing-going-on.org> References: <20011018101828.A88312@wantadilla.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="DV2QSXXe90Wp/UR6" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20011018101828.A88312@wantadilla.lemis.com>; from grog@lemis.com on Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 10:18:28AM +0930 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --DV2QSXXe90Wp/UR6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 10:18:28AM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > BSD/OS has a directory /usr/src/sys/scripts which contains macros for > kernel debugging. I have a number of macros here that I've > accumulated over time, and I'd like to commit them. =20 src/share/examples/gdb/... ? With pointers to this in the Handbook, Developer's Handbook, and other places? N --=20 FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://www.freebsd.org/ FreeBSD Documentation Project http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/ --- 15B8 3FFC DDB4 34B0 AA5F 94B7 93A8 0764 2C37 E375 --- --DV2QSXXe90Wp/UR6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjvOKkkACgkQk6gHZCw343VshgCgla1C29AoWHzn5frnMJCuzCgs 6qcAn2HU2eirVsrWsHjby9RrcE4madeX =oe8v -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --DV2QSXXe90Wp/UR6-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 17 18:35:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39BA137B403; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 18:35:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 13AAE6AB08; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:05:45 +0930 (CST) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:05:45 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Nik Clayton Cc: FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/scripts? Message-ID: <20011018110545.C95006@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20011018101828.A88312@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20011018020305.L88453@clan.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20011018020305.L88453@clan.nothing-going-on.org>; from nik@freebsd.org on Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 02:03:05AM +0100 Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 18 October 2001 at 2:03:05 +0100, Nik Clayton wrote: > On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 10:18:28AM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >> BSD/OS has a directory /usr/src/sys/scripts which contains macros for >> kernel debugging. I have a number of macros here that I've >> accumulated over time, and I'd like to commit them. > > src/share/examples/gdb/... > > ? > > With pointers to this in the Handbook, Developer's Handbook, and other > places? And a tutorial at the EuroBSDCon :-) Yes, I'll contribute the course materials to the handbook. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 17 20:29:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0D8137B405 for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 20:29:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9I3TfO86881; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 22:29:41 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 22:29:41 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: Steve Grandi Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned Message-ID: <20011017222941.A72535@dan.emsphone.com> References: <20011018021143.A53647@nagual.pp.ru> <20011017174800.V68105-100000@regulus.tuc.noao.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20011017174800.V68105-100000@regulus.tuc.noao.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i X-OS: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT X-message-flag: Outlook Error Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the last episode (Oct 17), Steve Grandi said: > Sigh: I've had UID 80 here at NOAO for 18 years (since 4.1BSD days on a > VAX). Time for a change! > > What is the "upper limit" for system UIDs and where is it documented? 2^32, with a limit of 2^16 if you're using NFSv2, I believe. And you don't have to change your own uid if you don't want to; just create a www user with another uid and the port will use that. -- Dan Nelson dnelson@allantgroup.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 17 21:22: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-3.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 986ED37B407 for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:22:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3741B66B0E; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:22:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:22:00 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Greg Lehey Cc: FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/scripts? Message-ID: <20011017212159.A38276@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20011018101828.A88312@wantadilla.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ikeVEW9yuYc//A+q" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20011018101828.A88312@wantadilla.lemis.com>; from grog@lemis.com on Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 10:18:28AM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --ikeVEW9yuYc//A+q Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 10:18:28AM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > BSD/OS has a directory /usr/src/sys/scripts which contains macros for > kernel debugging. I have a number of macros here that I've > accumulated over time, and I'd like to commit them. I'd also like to > modify config(8) to install a .gdbinit in the kernel build directory > if debugging has been specified; the .gdbinit would load macros from > ../../scripts in order to help with kernel debugging. >=20 > Comments? How about the existing /usr/src/tools directory? Kris --ikeVEW9yuYc//A+q Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7zljnWry0BWjoQKURAkhQAKCijnIdr/xDlWcCNLAoIf/w1mhc1ACg9DjQ kVFA/A4Dl0xhAPk99deMCOA= =e/oz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ikeVEW9yuYc//A+q-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Oct 17 21:25:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF76237B403 for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:25:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id A4D6E6AB08; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:55:42 +0930 (CST) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:55:42 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Kris Kennaway Cc: FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/scripts? Message-ID: <20011018135542.H95006@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20011018101828.A88312@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20011017212159.A38276@xor.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20011017212159.A38276@xor.obsecurity.org>; from kris@obsecurity.org on Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 09:22:00PM -0700 Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 17 October 2001 at 21:22:00 -0700, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 10:18:28AM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >> BSD/OS has a directory /usr/src/sys/scripts which contains macros for >> kernel debugging. I have a number of macros here that I've >> accumulated over time, and I'd like to commit them. I'd also like to >> modify config(8) to install a .gdbinit in the kernel build directory >> if debugging has been specified; the .gdbinit would load macros from >> ../../scripts in order to help with kernel debugging. >> >> Comments? > > How about the existing /usr/src/tools directory? That's not part of the kernel tree. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 0:24:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BA3A37B401 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 00:24:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 7851514C2E; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:24:23 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Greg Lehey Cc: FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/scripts? References: <20011018101828.A88312@wantadilla.lemis.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 18 Oct 2001 09:24:22 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20011018101828.A88312@wantadilla.lemis.com> Message-ID: Lines: 13 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey writes: > BSD/OS has a directory /usr/src/sys/scripts which contains macros for > kernel debugging. I have a number of macros here that I've > accumulated over time, and I'd like to commit them. I'd also like to > modify config(8) to install a .gdbinit in the kernel build directory > if debugging has been specified; the .gdbinit would load macros from > ../../scripts in order to help with kernel debugging. Wouldn't /var/crash be the logical place for .gdbinit? DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 0:36:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB71B37B409 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 00:36:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 667BE6A90F; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:06:03 +0930 (CST) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:06:03 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/scripts? Message-ID: <20011018170602.L95006@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20011018101828.A88312@wantadilla.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from des@ofug.org on Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 09:24:22AM +0200 Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 18 October 2001 at 9:24:22 +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Greg Lehey writes: >> BSD/OS has a directory /usr/src/sys/scripts which contains macros for >> kernel debugging. I have a number of macros here that I've >> accumulated over time, and I'd like to commit them. I'd also like to >> modify config(8) to install a .gdbinit in the kernel build directory >> if debugging has been specified; the .gdbinit would load macros from >> ../../scripts in order to help with kernel debugging. > > Wouldn't /var/crash be the logical place for .gdbinit? It's worth thinking about. But if you have multiple kernels, you may want to tweak your .gdbinit differently for each. And /var/crash doesn't have to be on the same machine. You could apply the same logic to kernel.debug, modulo size. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 3:30:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from nagual.pp.ru (pobrecita.freebsd.ru [194.87.13.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6A0637B405; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 03:30:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ache@localhost) by nagual.pp.ru (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9IAULZ62401; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:30:22 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from ache) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:30:20 +0400 From: "Andrey A. Chernov" To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: ports@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned Message-ID: <20011018143019.A62250@nagual.pp.ru> References: <20011017155854.A43168@nagual.pp.ru> <26334.1003400552@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <26334.1003400552@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 12:22:32 +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > > Hold on a second. What files does Apache _write_ as user nobody? Any file written from cgi-bin script f.e. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://ache.pp.ru/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 3:48:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from axl.seasidesoftware.co.za (axl.seasidesoftware.co.za [196.31.7.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E851837B407; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 03:48:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.seasidesoftware.co.za) by axl.seasidesoftware.co.za with local-esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 15uAjt-00075G-00; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:49:25 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: "Andrey A. Chernov" Cc: ports@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:30:20 +0400." <20011018143019.A62250@nagual.pp.ru> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:49:25 +0200 Message-ID: <27233.1003402165@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:30:20 +0400, "Andrey A. Chernov" wrote: > > Hold on a second. What files does Apache _write_ as user nobody? > > Any file written from cgi-bin script f.e. Sheesh, I wish I'd seen this conversation happening before you committed your change. :-( The administrator has to create directories into which these cgi scripts can write files. By default, onlt /tmp is availabe, and it's pretty much okay for nobody to write into /tmp, given the goals of the nobody user. There are numerous ways of setting up CGI scripts so that they don't run as nobody. I think adding www:www to the system just for this was unnecessary. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 3:54:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from nagual.pp.ru (pobrecita.freebsd.ru [194.87.13.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA15437B401; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 03:54:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ache@localhost) by nagual.pp.ru (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9IAsWD62721; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:54:33 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from ache) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:54:30 +0400 From: "Andrey A. Chernov" To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: ports@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned Message-ID: <20011018145428.B62250@nagual.pp.ru> References: <20011018143019.A62250@nagual.pp.ru> <27233.1003402165@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <27233.1003402165@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 12:49:25 +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > Sheesh, I wish I'd seen this conversation happening before you committed > your change. :-( I not commit anything yet to Apache waiting for replies for a while. > There are numerous ways of setting up CGI scripts so that they don't run > as nobody. I think adding www:www to the system just for this was > unnecessary. This is not for this reason at all. This is because nobody user is NFS special and can't be used even for sandboxes without any writes. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://ache.pp.ru/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 4: 1:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from axl.seasidesoftware.co.za (axl.seasidesoftware.co.za [196.31.7.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC59837B410; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 04:01:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.seasidesoftware.co.za) by axl.seasidesoftware.co.za with local-esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 15uAwP-00079p-00; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:02:21 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: "Andrey A. Chernov" Cc: ports@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:54:30 +0400." <20011018145428.B62250@nagual.pp.ru> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:02:21 +0200 Message-ID: <27516.1003402941@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:54:30 +0400, "Andrey A. Chernov" wrote: > This is not for this reason at all. This is because nobody user is NFS > special and can't be used even for sandboxes without any writes. It just seems weird to me that you haven't just left this area up to things like the Apache SuExec project etc. CGI scripts are complex beasts, and I wonder how much real security you gain with this simplistic "solution". I'm not saying you're making a mistake. I'm just nervous that this hasn't been thought through very carefully and that you're just jumping on the anti-nobody bandwagon. [1] Ciao, Sheldon. [1] I think the anti-nobody bandwagon is headed in the right direction, mind you. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 4:40: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from nagual.pp.ru (pobrecita.freebsd.ru [194.87.13.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CBCD37B403; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 04:39:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ache@localhost) by nagual.pp.ru (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9IBdsp63374; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:39:54 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from ache) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:39:54 +0400 From: "Andrey A. Chernov" To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: ports@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned Message-ID: <20011018153954.B63215@nagual.pp.ru> References: <20011018145428.B62250@nagual.pp.ru> <27516.1003402941@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <27516.1003402941@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 13:02:21 +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > > It just seems weird to me that you haven't just left this area up to > things like the Apache SuExec project etc. CGI scripts are complex > beasts, and I wonder how much real security you gain with this > simplistic "solution". I don't attempt to deal with this area or attempt to solve it this way. I issue just _warning_ saying that webmasters which use non-wrapped cgi-bin writes shoud convert their directories to group www after Apache change. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://ache.pp.ru/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 4:47:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from axl.seasidesoftware.co.za (axl.seasidesoftware.co.za [196.31.7.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2285C37B407; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 04:47:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.seasidesoftware.co.za) by axl.seasidesoftware.co.za with local-esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 15uBes-0007PW-00; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:48:18 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: "Andrey A. Chernov" Cc: ports@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:39:54 +0400." <20011018153954.B63215@nagual.pp.ru> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:48:18 +0200 Message-ID: <28489.1003405698@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:39:54 +0400, "Andrey A. Chernov" wrote: > I don't attempt to deal with this area or attempt to solve it this way. I > issue just _warning_ saying that webmasters which use non-wrapped cgi-bin > writes shoud convert their directories to group www after Apache change. Well, I still don't see the gain, but it's always difficult to argue against changes you don't think are necessary. :-( Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 4:58: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from nagual.pp.ru (pobrecita.freebsd.ru [194.87.13.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7630037B407; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 04:57:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ache@localhost) by nagual.pp.ru (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9IBvqJ63674; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:57:52 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from ache) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:57:50 +0400 From: "Andrey A. Chernov" To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: ports@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned Message-ID: <20011018155749.A63537@nagual.pp.ru> References: <20011018153954.B63215@nagual.pp.ru> <28489.1003405698@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <28489.1003405698@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 13:48:18 +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > > > I don't attempt to deal with this area or attempt to solve it this way. I > > issue just _warning_ saying that webmasters which use non-wrapped cgi-bin > > writes shoud convert their directories to group www after Apache change. > > Well, I still don't see the gain, but it's always difficult to argue > against changes you don't think are necessary. :-( The gain is not running Apache with access priviledges it must not have, including read access. Please also note that running non-wrapped write CGI's is not something illegal but the way officially documented in Apache, so it _will_ happens from time to time in anycase. [Really you don't need suexec for single user WWW server, moreover running suexec is often performance killer.] -- Andrey A. Chernov http://ache.pp.ru/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 5: 0:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from axl.seasidesoftware.co.za (axl.seasidesoftware.co.za [196.31.7.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 788F737B408; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 05:00:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.seasidesoftware.co.za) by axl.seasidesoftware.co.za with local-esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 15uBqs-0007Ua-00; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:00:42 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: "Andrey A. Chernov" Cc: ports@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:57:50 +0400." <20011018155749.A63537@nagual.pp.ru> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:00:42 +0200 Message-ID: <28803.1003406442@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:57:50 +0400, "Andrey A. Chernov" wrote: > The gain is not running Apache with access priviledges it must not have, > including read access. What files does user nobody have on files that user www won't? > Please also note that running non-wrapped write CGI's is not something > illegal but the way officially documented in Apache, so it _will_ happens > from time to time in anycase. In which case, what have you achieved? Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 5: 2: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from nagual.pp.ru (pobrecita.freebsd.ru [194.87.13.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5B3437B401; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 05:01:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ache@localhost) by nagual.pp.ru (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9IC1rG63790; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 16:01:53 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from ache) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 16:01:53 +0400 From: "Andrey A. Chernov" To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: ports@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned Message-ID: <20011018160152.C63537@nagual.pp.ru> References: <20011018155749.A63537@nagual.pp.ru> <28803.1003406442@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <28803.1003406442@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 14:00:42 +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > > The gain is not running Apache with access priviledges it must not have, > > including read access. > > What files does user nobody have on files that user www won't? Nobody is NFS special. Www is not. > > Please also note that running non-wrapped write CGI's is not something > > illegal but the way officially documented in Apache, so it _will_ happens > > from time to time in anycase. > > In which case, what have you achieved? No wrong accesses in NFS case. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://ache.pp.ru/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 5:18:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from axl.seasidesoftware.co.za (axl.seasidesoftware.co.za [196.31.7.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB83A37B403; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 05:18:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.seasidesoftware.co.za) by axl.seasidesoftware.co.za with local-esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 15uC8H-0007XE-00; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:18:41 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: "Andrey A. Chernov" Cc: ports@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 18 Oct 2001 16:01:53 +0400." <20011018160152.C63537@nagual.pp.ru> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:18:41 +0200 Message-ID: <28967.1003407521@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 18 Oct 2001 16:01:53 +0400, "Andrey A. Chernov" wrote: > > What files does user nobody have on files that user www won't? > > Nobody is NFS special. Www is not. So do you propose to do away with nobody as the username under which to run daemons? Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 5:45:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DB0A37B40F; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 05:45:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id EA94A14C2E; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:45:04 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: "Andrey A. Chernov" , ports@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned References: <28967.1003407521@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 18 Oct 2001 14:45:04 +0200 In-Reply-To: <28967.1003407521@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Message-ID: Lines: 15 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sheldon Hearn writes: > So do you propose to do away with nobody as the username under which to > run daemons? Nobody has never been the username under which to run daemons. It is a special user that is not supposed to own any files or processes. It is also magic in NIS and NFS (though NFS at least lets you choose a different magic user). It owns the locate database because the periodic scripts run locate.updatedb as nobody (so it won't see files that aren't supposed to be visible for everyone) but don't take care to chown the database afterwards. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 5:55: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from nagual.pp.ru (pobrecita.freebsd.ru [194.87.13.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BC4A37B403; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 05:54:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ache@localhost) by nagual.pp.ru (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9ICspM64585; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 16:54:51 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from ache) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 16:54:50 +0400 From: "Andrey A. Chernov" To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Sheldon Hearn , ports@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned Message-ID: <20011018165450.A64487@nagual.pp.ru> References: <28967.1003407521@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 14:45:04 +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > different magic user). It owns the locate database because the > periodic scripts run locate.updatedb as nobody (so it won't see files > that aren't supposed to be visible for everyone) but don't take care > to chown the database afterwards. periodic scripts should be changed to run it from "daemon" f.e. instead. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://ache.pp.ru/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 6:18:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from axl.seasidesoftware.co.za (axl.seasidesoftware.co.za [196.31.7.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC35937B409; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 06:18:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.seasidesoftware.co.za) by axl.seasidesoftware.co.za with local-esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 15uD4j-0007hc-00; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:19:05 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: "Andrey A. Chernov" , ports@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned In-reply-to: Your message of "18 Oct 2001 14:45:04 +0200." Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:19:05 +0200 Message-ID: <29611.1003411145@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 18 Oct 2001 14:45:04 +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > So do you propose to do away with nobody as the username under which to > > run daemons? > > Nobody has never been the username under which to run daemons. It is > a special user that is not supposed to own any files or processes. Oh, really. I didn't know that. So the anti-nobody drive is actually broader than I first understood, at first. So when exim needs to be run as "the unpriveleged user" (nobody by default), which user should I use? Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 6:26: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E80B637B405; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 06:25:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 7D5B414C2E; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:25:55 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: "Andrey A. Chernov" , ports@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned References: <29611.1003411145@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 18 Oct 2001 15:25:55 +0200 In-Reply-To: <29611.1003411145@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Message-ID: Lines: 12 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sheldon Hearn writes: > So when exim needs to be run as "the unpriveleged user" (nobody by > default), which user should I use? It should set up and use its own UID, just like QMail and Postfix set up and use their own UIDs. Ideally, there would be a user in our standard master.passwd named "smtp" or "mail", with UID 25 (and of course a corresponding group). DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 6:49:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from axl.seasidesoftware.co.za (axl.seasidesoftware.co.za [196.31.7.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B286237B405; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 06:49:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.seasidesoftware.co.za) by axl.seasidesoftware.co.za with local-esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 15uDYc-0007oM-00; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:49:58 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: "Andrey A. Chernov" , ports@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned In-reply-to: Your message of "18 Oct 2001 15:25:55 +0200." Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:49:58 +0200 Message-ID: <30029.1003412998@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 18 Oct 2001 15:25:55 +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > It should set up and use its own UID, just like QMail and Postfix set > up and use their own UIDs. Ideally, there would be a user in our > standard master.passwd named "smtp" or "mail", with UID 25 (and of > course a corresponding group). You don't think there's merit in the availability of a UID who is guaranteed to own no files and has world-only access to the filesystem (or a chrooted subtree)? I would think the sheer number of applications "abusing" nobody for this purpose would suggest that it's desirable. Hell, I'd almost go so far as to say we should rename the NIS/NFS UID 65534, and create a new UID called nobody. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 8:43:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from relay.gnf.org (relay.gnf.org [208.44.31.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CE3037B40A; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gnf.org (smtp.gnf.org [10.0.0.11]) by relay.gnf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9IFh7s26085; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:43:07 -0700 Received: by mail.gnf.org (Postfix, from userid 888) id 8C5C211E508; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:40:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.gnf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86A8311A576; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:40:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:40:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Gordon Tetlow To: , Subject: New rc.d init script roadmap Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="658176-318202878-1003419609=:30874" Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --658176-318202878-1003419609=:30874 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Alright folks, I finally got off my butt last night and put together a roadmap for the migration to the new rc.d init scripts that were imported from NetBSD a long time ago and just sat in the tree. M1 (Patch included) Setup infrastructure Make rcorder compile Hook rc.subr into the distribution (and mergemaster) Hook rcorder into the world Add toggle in rc.conf to switch between rc_ng and current boot scripts M2 Get FreeBSD to boot with the new boot scripts Rewrite the /etc/rc.d scripts to work with FreeBSD M3 Add some FreeBSD specific support into rc.subr M4 Add true dependency checking to the infrastructure so that starting nfsd will start mountd and rpcbind Add support into rc.subr Add dependencies into rc.d scripts I'd like a couple of people to take a look at this and then I'll submit a pr for it if there aren't too many objections. I'm expecting M2 to run into quite a bikeshed, but hey, I got my nice shiny asbestos back from the cleaners. -gordon --658176-318202878-1003419609=:30874 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name="rc-infrastructure.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="rc-infrastructure.diff" LS0tIGV0Yy9NYWtlZmlsZS5vcmlnCVdlZCBPY3QgMTcgMjA6MDQ6MDcgMjAw MQ0KKysrIGV0Yy9NYWtlZmlsZQlXZWQgT2N0IDE3IDIyOjI5OjM4IDIwMDEN CkBAIC0xMyw3ICsxMyw3IEBADQogCW1vdGQgbW9kZW1zIG5ldGNvbmZpZyBu ZXR3b3JrcyBuZXdzeXNsb2cuY29uZiBcDQogCXBhbS5jb25mIHBob25lcyBw cmludGNhcCBwcm9maWxlIHByb3RvY29scyBcDQogCXJjIHJjLmF0bSByYy5k ZXZmcyByYy5kaXNrbGVzczEgcmMuZGlza2xlc3MyIHJjLmZpcmV3YWxsIHJj LmZpcmV3YWxsNiBcDQotCXJjLm5ldHdvcmsgcmMubmV0d29yazYgcmMucGNj YXJkIHJjLnNlcmlhbCByYy5zaHV0ZG93biBcDQorCXJjLm5ldHdvcmsgcmMu bmV0d29yazYgcmMucGNjYXJkIHJjLnNlcmlhbCByYy5zaHV0ZG93biByYy5z dWJyIFwNCiAJcmMuc3lzY29ucyByYy5zeXNjdGwgcmVtb3RlIHJwYyBzZWN1 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<20011018091927.A18621@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: arch@freebsd.org Mail-Followup-To: Gordon Tetlow , arch@freebsd.org, kevin.way@overtone.org References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from gordont@gnf.org on Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 08:40:09AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG PLEASE, only _ONE_ mailing list. We wouldn't have freebsd-arch separate from freebsd-hackers if it didn't serve a different target area... On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 08:40:09AM -0700, Gordon Tetlow wrote: > Alright folks, I finally got off my butt last night and put together a > roadmap for the migration to the new rc.d init scripts that were imported > from NetBSD a long time ago and just sat in the tree. Kevin Way had a prototype at that he mentioned in http://overtone.org/rc.d/ freebsd-hackers. Back in August he said that after some travel he would clean it up more and it would probably be in a state for beta testing. I guess he got a little delayed in that. Can you look at Kevin's work and see if you two could merge it into one prototype? > M1 (Patch included) > Setup infrastructure > Make rcorder compile I have sent patches to NetBSD to make rcorder compile properly. But I have not bothered to put the pressure on them needed until we had a working prototype -- so we could push back all of our changes at once. I also fail to see why this is "milestone 1". These things should be done as part of the patch + tarball that should be put up for prototype testing. > M2 > Get FreeBSD to boot with the new boot scripts > Rewrite the /etc/rc.d scripts to work with FreeBSD This is the hard part. :-( > M4 > Add true dependency checking to the infrastructure so that starting nfsd > will start mountd and rpcbind The dependency checking is part of /etc/rc.d/*. Is there something missing you have found? > I'm expecting M2 to run into quite a bikeshed, but hey, I got my nice There is no reason for it to. We need a tarball put up containing the prototype. Several people will download it and install it on their systems (including me). Once enough people have said there is basic working functionality, I'll commit it. -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 9:38:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from horsey.gshapiro.net (horsey.gshapiro.net [209.220.147.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A033C37B40A for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:38:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from horsey.gshapiro.net (gshapiro@localhost [IPv6:::1]) by horsey.gshapiro.net (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id f9IGc0NM007365 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:38:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gshapiro@localhost) by horsey.gshapiro.net (8.12.1/8.12.1/Submit) id f9IGbxsp007362; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:37:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15311.1383.814782.672622@horsey.gshapiro.net> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:37:59 -0700 From: Gregory Neil Shapiro To: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: New sendmail users (was Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned) In-Reply-To: References: <29611.1003411145@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> X-Mailer: VM 6.96 under 21.5 (beta3) "asparagus" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG des> It should set up and use its own UID, just like QMail and Postfix set des> up and use their own UIDs. Ideally, there would be a user in our des> standard master.passwd named "smtp" or "mail", with UID 25 (and of des> course a corresponding group). Since it's come up, now is the opportune time for me to float this patch that I would like to commit in preparation for the sendmail 8.12 import. sendmail 8.12 no longer requires a set-user-ID root binary but will require a couple of users. I'd like to commit this soon so it filters into password files before 8.12 is imported. Some snippets from sendmail's various docs explaining the users: sendmail must be a set-group-ID (default group: smmsp, recommended gid: 25) program to allow for queueing mail in a group-writable directory. The following permissions should be used: -r-xr-sr-x root smmsp ... /PATH/TO/sendmail drwxrwx--- smmsp smmsp ... /var/spool/clientmqueue drwx------ root wheel ... /var/spool/mqueue You can start this program as root, it will change its user id to RunAsUser (smmsp by default, recommended uid: 25). This way smmsp does not need a valid shell. RunAsUser: FEATURE(`msp') sets the option RunAsUser to smmsp. This user must have the group smmsp, i.e., the same group as the clientmqueue directory. -- The default value for DefaultUser is now set to the uid and gid of the first existing user mailnull, sendmail, or daemon that has a non-zero uid. If none of these exist, sendmail reverts back to the old behavior of using uid 1 and gid 1. (Note currently FreeBSD uses daemon for DefaultUser but I would prefer not to use an account used by other programs, hence the addition of mailnull.) Index: group =================================================================== RCS file: /src/FreeBSD/cvsrepo/src/etc/group,v retrieving revision 1.19 diff -u -r1.19 group --- group 1999/08/27 23:23:41 1.19 +++ group 2001/10/18 16:31:43 @@ -12,6 +12,8 @@ man:*:9: games:*:13: staff:*:20:root +smmsp:*:25: +mailnull:*:26: guest:*:31:root bind:*:53: uucp:*:66: Index: master.passwd =================================================================== RCS file: /src/FreeBSD/cvsrepo/src/etc/master.passwd,v retrieving revision 1.25 diff -u -r1.25 master.passwd --- master.passwd 1999/09/13 17:09:07 1.25 +++ master.passwd 2001/10/18 16:31:44 @@ -10,6 +10,8 @@ games:*:7:13::0:0:Games pseudo-user:/usr/games:/sbin/nologin news:*:8:8::0:0:News Subsystem:/:/sbin/nologin man:*:9:9::0:0:Mister Man Pages:/usr/share/man:/sbin/nologin +smmsp:*:25:25:Sendmail Submission User:/var/spool/clientmqueue:/sbin/nologin +mailnull:*:26:26:Sendmail Default User:/var/spool/mqueue:/sbin/nologin bind:*:53:53::0:0:Bind Sandbox:/:/sbin/nologin uucp:*:66:66::0:0:UUCP pseudo-user:/var/spool/uucppublic:/usr/libexec/uucp/uucico xten:*:67:67::0:0:X-10 daemon:/usr/local/xten:/sbin/nologin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 9:50:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from relay.gnf.org (relay.gnf.org [208.44.31.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD89137B419 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:49:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gnf.org (smtp.gnf.org [10.0.0.11]) by relay.gnf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9IGnBs27394; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:49:21 -0700 Received: by mail.gnf.org (Postfix, from userid 888) id B3A1511E508; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:46:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.gnf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFFF711A576; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:46:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:46:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Gordon Tetlow To: Cc: Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap In-Reply-To: <20011018091927.A18621@dragon.nuxi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 18 Oct 2001, David O'Brien wrote: > PLEASE, only _ONE_ mailing list. We wouldn't have freebsd-arch separate > from freebsd-hackers if it didn't serve a different target area... I was hoping to get some people from -hackers to take a look at it. Although it was more for -arch. I'll leave it here. > Can you look at Kevin's work and see if you two could merge it into one > prototype? I just looked briefly at it. I think we are actually in about the same place, although he's a bit further along on the scripts. Although most of them are directly from NetBSD and not a conversion of the existing FreeBSD boot scripts/order. > > M1 (Patch included) > > Setup infrastructure > > Make rcorder compile > > I have sent patches to NetBSD to make rcorder compile properly. > But I have not bothered to put the pressure on them needed until we had a > working prototype -- so we could push back all of our changes at once. I don't know much about the NetBSD folks, but it might be easier to give them smaller sets so they don't get a single monolithic patch to try an integrate into their codebase. > I also fail to see why this is "milestone 1". These things should be > done as part of the patch + tarball that should be put up for prototype > testing. I was hoping to do this more or less in tree. That would also give people that don't want to download a patch an option of simply flipping a switch in /etc/rc.conf and trying out the new system. It's also M1 because it was necessary piece before rewriting all of the boot scripts. (It also happened to be the amount that I was able to create/test last night =) > > M2 > > Get FreeBSD to boot with the new boot scripts > > Rewrite the /etc/rc.d scripts to work with FreeBSD > > This is the hard part. :-( Yeah. I actually had a set of scripts that got my machine up through (most of) the network configuration. Unfortunately, I forgot to back them up off my laptop when I switched jobs. > > M4 > > Add true dependency checking to the infrastructure so that starting nfsd > > will start mountd and rpcbind > > The dependency checking is part of /etc/rc.d/*. Is there something > missing you have found? Well, once I have booted my machine, I might want to start an nfs server. If I just ran /etc/rc.d/nfsd start, it would fail, because that script doesn't know enought to start mountd (which in turn doesn't know enough to start rpcbind). I had an idea on how to make that all work. But we need to crawl before we start sprinting. > > I'm expecting M2 to run into quite a bikeshed, but hey, I got my nice > > There is no reason for it to. We need a tarball put up containing the > prototype. Several people will download it and install it on their > systems (including me). Once enough people have said there is basic > working functionality, I'll commit it. I suppose that would be a compelling enough reason to work out of tree. There is one main issue to resolve before I go through and rewrite the rc.d scripts. Do we want to keep the existing FreeBSD scripts as much as possible? or do we want them to look like NetBSD's? I prefer the former myself. I think Kevin's implementation has gone more for the latter. -gordon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 10:10:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from axl.seasidesoftware.co.za (axl.seasidesoftware.co.za [196.31.7.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D0F737B401; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.seasidesoftware.co.za) by axl.seasidesoftware.co.za with local-esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 15uGhN-000GEG-00; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 19:11:13 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: John Baldwin Cc: "Andrey A. Chernov" , des@FreeBSD.org, arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:41:36 MST." Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 19:11:13 +0200 Message-ID: <62387.1003425073@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:41:36 MST, John Baldwin wrote: > I request that the www user and group be backed out. Done, but not for your reasons. :-) Andrey, DES? Could you guys arrange for a clear and detailed example of the problem scenario to be posted to this list in follow-up to this discussion? The issues are getting blurred and I think it'll help if you start at the beginning. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 10:14:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from nagual.pp.ru (pobrecita.freebsd.ru [194.87.13.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 129CE37B403; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:14:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ache@localhost) by nagual.pp.ru (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9IHE6x68147; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 21:14:06 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from ache) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 21:14:05 +0400 From: "Andrey A. Chernov" To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , ports@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned Message-ID: <20011018211404.A68031@nagual.pp.ru> References: <30029.1003412998@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <30029.1003412998@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 15:49:58 +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > > Hell, I'd almost go so far as to say we should rename the NIS/NFS UID > 65534, and create a new UID called nobody. No, NFS get "nobody" name UID first, and, if not found, use hardcoded numeric value. It is well-documented behaviour. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://ache.pp.ru/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 10:19:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from buffoon.automagic.org (buffoon.automagic.org [208.185.30.208]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CF35937B403 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:19:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 99910 invoked by uid 1000); 18 Oct 2001 17:19:45 -0000 Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:19:45 -0400 From: Joe Abley To: Gordon Tetlow Cc: arch@freebsd.org, kevin.way@overtone.org Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap Message-ID: <20011018131944.O92370@buffoon.automagic.org> References: <20011018091927.A18621@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.22.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 09:46:13AM -0700, Gordon Tetlow wrote: > I just looked briefly at it. I think we are actually in about the same > place, although he's a bit further along on the scripts. Although most of > them are directly from NetBSD and not a conversion of the existing FreeBSD > boot scripts/order. If you need a volunteer to port the existing /etc/rc.* to rc.d bits, my hand is up. If you have enough eyes on that already, however, I am happy to remain quiet :) > There is one main issue to resolve before I go through and rewrite the > rc.d scripts. Do we want to keep the existing FreeBSD scripts as much as > possible? or do we want them to look like NetBSD's? I prefer the former > myself. I think Kevin's implementation has gone more for the latter. I think the former is more likely to result in scripts that exactly match the current functionality. Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 10:45:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.noos.fr (camus.noos.net [212.198.2.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01B8337B401 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:45:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 82138228 invoked by uid 0); 18 Oct 2001 17:45:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gits.dyndns.org) ([212.198.231.187]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.70 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 18 Oct 2001 17:45:15 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by gits.dyndns.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9IHjEh98414; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 19:45:14 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root) Message-Id: <200110181745.f9IHjEh98414@gits.dyndns.org> Subject: nobody war (was Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned) In-Reply-To: To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 19:45:13 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Sheldon Hearn , "Andrey A. Chernov" , ports@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org Reply-To: clefevre@citeweb.net From: Cyrille Lefevre Organization: ACME X-Face: X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL94c (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Sheldon Hearn writes: > > So do you propose to do away with nobody as the username under which to > > run daemons? > > Nobody has never been the username under which to run daemons. It is > a special user that is not supposed to own any files or processes. It how about setiathome, dnetc and junkbuster which also run as nobody. setiathome and dnetc own files respectively in /var/db/setiathome and /usr/local/distributed.net. I'm not running it, but squid is probably running as nobody as well since /usr/local/squid/{logs,cache} are owned by nobody. much better is to : find /usr/ports -name Makefile | xargs grep nobody Cyrille. -- Cyrille Lefevre mailto:clefevre@citeweb.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 10:50:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from femail32.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail32.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2698437B407; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:50:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx ([24.2.39.156]) by femail32.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011018175020.BVNK26359.femail32.sdc1.sfba.home.com@laptop.baldwin.cx>; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:50:20 -0700 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20011018211949.B68031@nagual.pp.ru> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:50:20 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: "Andrey A. Chernov" Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/etc group master.passwd Cc: Christopher Masto , Mike Barcroft , arch@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ moved to -arch ] On 18-Oct-01 Andrey A. Chernov wrote: > On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 09:41:36 -0700, John Baldwin wrote: >> >> I request that the www user and group be backed out. If we had a web server >> in >> the base system, this might be different (like the bind user and the >> presently >> non-existent but potential sendmail/smtp/mail user), but since web servers >> are >> currently all in ports, the ports install is where the user add belongs. > > Look, we already have "pop" user in the system under the same conditions > and you don't complain for years. Yeah, it snuck in before I was around. :) It's commit log also doesn't indicate that it was ever discussed anywhere. > The second thing is that it will be easy to transfer web server from > machine to machine or run in NFS'ed environment for single uid case. > Picking random UID produce nightmare for all of that. Some people already _use_ UID 80 for other things. Do we just screw those people over? Besides, it's not like any competent sysadmin is incapable of editing the password file on the new machine to add a new user. Also, as many people have been pointing out, the user the server runs under shouldn't own any files, but many people already have existing www:www uid/gid's that own the content. > The third thing that we almost have Apache in the system, at least at > sysinstall level which especially tuned for it. We do? Geez, of my 9 FreeBSD boxes at home, only 1 has apache on it. That's a whopping 11%, hardly 'almost all' (which is what I assume you meant to say). Granted, my machines aren't representative of all FreeBSD machines, but you can't assume that all FreeBSD machines are webservers. > -- > Andrey A. Chernov > http://ache.pp.ru/ -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 10:52:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from nagual.pp.ru (pobrecita.freebsd.ru [194.87.13.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 990BC37B407; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:52:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ache@localhost) by nagual.pp.ru (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9IHqOW68690; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 21:52:24 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from ache) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 21:52:24 +0400 From: "Andrey A. Chernov" To: Cyrille Lefevre Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Sheldon Hearn , ports@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nobody war (was Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned) Message-ID: <20011018215224.A68658@nagual.pp.ru> References: <200110181745.f9IHjEh98414@gits.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200110181745.f9IHjEh98414@gits.dyndns.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 19:45:13 +0200, Cyrille Lefevre wrote: > > I'm not running it, but squid is probably running as nobody as well since > /usr/local/squid/{logs,cache} are owned by nobody. > > much better is to : find /usr/ports -name Makefile | xargs grep nobody Answer to this part is simple - squid and other HTTP-related ports run as nobody because httpd runs as nobody. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://ache.pp.ru/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 10:55: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6557137B405; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:54:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 299D914C2E; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 19:54:53 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: clefevre@citeweb.net Cc: Sheldon Hearn , "Andrey A. Chernov" , ports@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nobody war (was Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned) References: <200110181745.f9IHjEh98414@gits.dyndns.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 18 Oct 2001 19:54:52 +0200 In-Reply-To: <200110181745.f9IHjEh98414@gits.dyndns.org> Message-ID: Lines: 13 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Cyrille Lefevre writes: > how about setiathome, dnetc and junkbuster which also run as nobody. > setiathome and dnetc own files respectively in /var/db/setiathome and > /usr/local/distributed.net. > > I'm not running it, but squid is probably running as nobody as well since > /usr/local/squid/{logs,cache} are owned by nobody. I am not responsible for other people's broken software. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 10:56:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from relay.gnf.org (relay.gnf.org [208.44.31.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51AE337B405; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:56:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gnf.org (smtp.gnf.org [10.0.0.11]) by relay.gnf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9IHu4s28636; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:56:04 -0700 Received: by mail.gnf.org (Postfix, from userid 888) id 2BB7611E508; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:52:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.gnf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2385411A576; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:52:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:52:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Gordon Tetlow To: "Andrey A. Chernov" Cc: Sheldon Hearn , Yarema , Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned In-Reply-To: <20011018170342.B64487@nagual.pp.ru> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Moved to -arch, where this rightfully belongs... On Thu, 18 Oct 2001, Andrey A. Chernov wrote: > On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 14:23:55 +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > > > Specifically, one usually maps a foreign host's root to the local > > nobody. This means "foreign host's root has world-only permissions". > > And it not means that Apache allowed to read nobody files with 700 > permissions. I thought we already established that nobody owning files was a bad thing. Anything that creates files as nobody should be fixed. Apache doesn't create files as nobody (although cgi's execed as it might, but that's the cgi's fault, not Apache's), > > This is sounding worse and worse to me. Could you maybe provide an > > example that demonstrates the danger you're trying to protect against? > > See one above. And not forget about NIS, which use nobody in special way > too. Refresh my memory as to why nobody is special in NIS land? -gordon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 10:58: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (storm.FreeBSD.org.uk [194.242.139.170]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9774A37B40C for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:58:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with UUCP id f9IHvp564211; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 18:57:51 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Received: from grondar.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grimreaper.grondar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9IHmGZ18691; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 18:48:16 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Message-Id: <200110181748.f9IHmGZ18691@grimreaper.grondar.org> To: Greg Lehey Cc: FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/scripts? References: <20011018101828.A88312@wantadilla.lemis.com> In-Reply-To: <20011018101828.A88312@wantadilla.lemis.com> ; from Greg Lehey "Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:18:28 +0930." Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 18:48:16 +0100 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > BSD/OS has a directory /usr/src/sys/scripts which contains macros for > kernel debugging. I have a number of macros here that I've > accumulated over time, and I'd like to commit them. I'd also like to > modify config(8) to install a .gdbinit in the kernel build directory > if debugging has been specified; the .gdbinit would load macros from > ../../scripts in order to help with kernel debugging. > > Comments? I'd love this! M -- o Mark Murray \_ FreeBSD Services Limited O.\_ Warning: this .sig is umop ap!sdn To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 11: 2: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from nagual.pp.ru (pobrecita.freebsd.ru [194.87.13.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FAB337B43C; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:01:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ache@localhost) by nagual.pp.ru (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9II1ua68940; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 22:01:56 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from ache) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 22:01:56 +0400 From: "Andrey A. Chernov" To: John Baldwin Cc: Christopher Masto , Mike Barcroft , arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/etc group master.passwd Message-ID: <20011018220156.B68658@nagual.pp.ru> References: <20011018211949.B68031@nagual.pp.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 10:50:20 -0700, John Baldwin wrote: > > Look, we already have "pop" user in the system under the same conditions > > and you don't complain for years. > > Yeah, it snuck in before I was around. :) It's commit log also doesn't > indicate that it was ever discussed anywhere. Do you plan to remove "pop" too? I see no reason to let "pop" stay while "www" removed. They must stay both or removed both. Adding "www" was exact in adding "pop" existen style. > Some people already _use_ UID 80 for other things. Do we just screw those > people over? As you say "it's not like any competent sysadmin is incapable of editing the password file". No any changes possible without screwing somebody. > people have been pointing out, the user the server runs under shouldn't own any > files, It is not true in general. I say that nobody shouldn't own any files, not user the server runs. Owning files is allowed and documented Apache behaviour. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://ache.pp.ru/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 11: 7: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail-relay1.yahoo.com (mail-relay1.yahoo.com [216.145.48.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7201737B40A; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:06:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DougBarton.net (db-cvad-2-tmp.yahoo.com [216.145.48.243]) by mail-relay1.yahoo.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2D318B5B3; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:06:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3BCF1A60.13C78B28@DougBarton.net> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:07:28 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gregory Neil Shapiro Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New sendmail users (was Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned) References: <29611.1003411145@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> <15311.1383.814782.672622@horsey.gshapiro.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG My only objection is the name of the user for uid 25. It should be smtp, both to match the service name for the port, and to make it more generic which will help us avoid the inevitable whining and crying from the anti-sendmail crowd. Port 26 is currently unassigned, so it's as good a candidate for your mailnull user as any. I think that name is a little wacky, but since that's the default in sendmail and there's no contenders for port 26, it's as good as any I suppose. :) Doug -- "We will not tire, we will not falter, and we will not fail." - George W. Bush, President of the United States September 20, 2001 Do YOU Yahoo!? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 11:10:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from horsey.gshapiro.net (horsey.gshapiro.net [209.220.147.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0554237B405 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:10:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from horsey.gshapiro.net (gshapiro@localhost [IPv6:::1]) by horsey.gshapiro.net (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id f9IIA9NM021347 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:10:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gshapiro@localhost) by horsey.gshapiro.net (8.12.1/8.12.1/Submit) id f9IIA9Cr021344; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:10:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15311.6913.618332.163251@horsey.gshapiro.net> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:10:09 -0700 From: Gregory Neil Shapiro To: Doug Barton Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New sendmail users (was Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned) In-Reply-To: <3BCF1A60.13C78B28@DougBarton.net> References: <29611.1003411145@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> <15311.1383.814782.672622@horsey.gshapiro.net> <3BCF1A60.13C78B28@DougBarton.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.96 under 21.5 (beta3) "asparagus" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG DougB> My only objection is the name of the user for uid 25. It should be DougB> smtp, both to match the service name for the port, and to make it more DougB> generic which will help us avoid the inevitable whining and crying from DougB> the anti-sendmail crowd. I'd worry about the confusion of calling it smtp given that user is not used by the SMTP server (the sendmail daemon), it is used by the MSP (mail submission program), i.e., when users/programs run sendmail from the command line for initial submission of the mail. Calling it 'smtp' may lead people to believe the SMTP daemon uses it. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 11:20:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [66.92.13.169]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CF3237B40D; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:20:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.11.6/8.11.1) id f9IIKN721066; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:20:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:20:23 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: John Baldwin Cc: "Andrey A. Chernov" , Christopher Masto , Mike Barcroft , arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/etc group master.passwd Message-ID: <20011018112023.A20348@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: arch@FreeBSD.org References: <20011018211949.B68031@nagual.pp.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from jhb@FreeBSD.org on Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 10:50:20AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 10:50:20AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote: > Some people already _use_ UID 80 for other things. Do we just screw those > people over? Besides, it's not like any competent sysadmin is incapable of Those people probably do not mergemaster their master.passwd. Thus adding www==80 to the stock sources does not really create a problem for existing systems (you are now probably going to mention YP). Web server ports can check for the existence of a `www' user and add it if not there -- again not causing a problem for existing installations. Over time the stock user `www' will be in use everywhere and this will be a non-issue. > We do? Geez, of my 9 FreeBSD boxes at home, only 1 has apache on it. > That's a whopping 11%, hardly 'almost all' (which is what I assume you > meant to say). Granted, my machines aren't representative of all > FreeBSD machines, but you can't assume that all FreeBSD machines are > webservers. No, but a large number are, and it is one of our bread and butter. So there is nothing wrong with giving web servering a little extra attention in the base system. -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 11:28: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [66.92.13.169]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8003537B401 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:27:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.11.6/8.11.1) id f9IIRr921156; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:27:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:27:52 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Gordon Tetlow Cc: arch@freebsd.org, kevin.way@overtone.org Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap Message-ID: <20011018112752.B20348@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: arch@freebsd.org References: <20011018091927.A18621@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from gordont@gnf.org on Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 09:46:13AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 09:46:13AM -0700, Gordon Tetlow wrote: > > Can you look at Kevin's work and see if you two could merge it into one > > prototype? > > I just looked briefly at it. I think we are actually in about the same > place, although he's a bit further along on the scripts. Although most of > them are directly from NetBSD and not a conversion of the existing FreeBSD > boot scripts/order. That is what we want -- as small a deveration from the NetBSD ones as possible. Otherwise there is no way they will accept our changes (unless they clearly give a measurable enhancement). We want to share this common source as much as possible -- gratuitous changes from the NetBSD rc.d system will not benefit anyone. Going from our existing RC scripts to an rc.d system is a big enough upheaval that we(FreeBSD) can accept a large change from our existing RC scripts (ie, a direct conversion is not as needed). > > I have sent patches to NetBSD to make rcorder compile properly. > > But I have not bothered to put the pressure on them needed until we had a > > working prototype -- so we could push back all of our changes at once. > > I don't know much about the NetBSD folks, but it might be easier to give > them smaller sets so they don't get a single monolithic patch to try an > integrate into their codebase. From my talks to my contact there, being able to show the whole working system in FreeBSD makes a better argument for them to change some things, than small nebulous changes. This is also another reason to not diverge in the rc.d scripts when possible. > > I also fail to see why this is "milestone 1". These things should be > > done as part of the patch + tarball that should be put up for prototype > > testing. > > I was hoping to do this more or less in tree. That would also give people > that don't want to download a patch an option of simply flipping a switch > in /etc/rc.conf and trying out the new system. We don't want to pull files off the vendor branch until we are sure we need(want) to. Thus a patch is what we're most like going to have to work with until we are happy with things. > It's also M1 because it was > necessary piece before rewriting all of the boot scripts. (It also > happened to be the amount that I was able to create/test last night =) I already posted patches in the past to add rcorder to our /usr/src (building and installing rcorder). :-) > > > M4 > > > Add true dependency checking to the infrastructure so that starting nfsd > > > will start mountd and rpcbind > > > > The dependency checking is part of /etc/rc.d/*. Is there something > > missing you have found? > > Well, once I have booted my machine, I might want to start an nfs server. > If I just ran /etc/rc.d/nfsd start, it would fail, because that script > doesn't know enought to start mountd (which in turn doesn't know enough to > start rpcbind). I had an idea on how to make that all work. But we need to > crawl before we start sprinting. Something must have been missing from your conversion of the rc.d scripts, because such dependancy infomation is inherent in the NetBSD rc.d scripts. > There is one main issue to resolve before I go through and rewrite the > rc.d scripts. Do we want to keep the existing FreeBSD scripts as much as > possible? No. (as justified above) > or do we want them to look like NetBSD's? I prefer the former > myself. I think Kevin's implementation has gone more for the latter. Yes. (as justified above) -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 11:28:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from traven.uol.com.br (traven.uol.com.br [200.231.206.184]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D54437B40A for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:28:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 200.181.49.13 ([200.181.49.13]) by traven.uol.com.br (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA11173 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 16:20:07 -0200 (BRST) Received: (qmail 68990 invoked by uid 1001); 18 Oct 2001 18:22:36 -0000 From: "Mario Sergio Fujikawa Ferreira" Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 16:22:14 -0200 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: clefevre@citeweb.net, Sheldon Hearn , "Andrey A. Chernov" , ports@FreeBSD.ORG, arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: nobody war (was Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned) Message-ID: <20011018162214.A65563@exxodus.fedaykin.here> References: <200110181745.f9IHjEh98414@gits.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from des@ofug.org on Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 07:54:30PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 07:54:30PM +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Cyrille Lefevre writes: > > how about setiathome, dnetc and junkbuster which also run as nobody. > > setiathome and dnetc own files respectively in /var/db/setiathome and > > /usr/local/distributed.net. > > > > I'm not running it, but squid is probably running as nobody as well since > > /usr/local/squid/{logs,cache} are owned by nobody. > > I am not responsible for other people's broken software. I run squid as squid:squid and http as www:www with no problems. I don't understand what's the point of this discussion. Since we stablished that running as nobody is not a good thing, we should be discussing what to replace it with. I vote to creating uid:gid for all appropriate services: mail or smtp www squid and use that. Regards, -- Mario S F Ferreira - UnB - Brazil - "I guess this is a signature." lioux at ( freebsd dot org | linf dot unb dot br ) flames to beloved devnull@someotherworldbeloworabove.org feature, n: a documented bug | bug, n: an undocumented feature To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 11:28:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [66.92.13.169]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E21F37B40B for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:28:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.11.6/8.11.1) id f9IIScb21174; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:28:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:28:38 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Joe Abley Cc: Gordon Tetlow , arch@freebsd.org, kevin.way@overtone.org Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap Message-ID: <20011018112838.C20348@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: arch@freebsd.org References: <20011018091927.A18621@dragon.nuxi.com> <20011018131944.O92370@buffoon.automagic.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20011018131944.O92370@buffoon.automagic.org>; from jabley@automagic.org on Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 01:19:45PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 01:19:45PM -0400, Joe Abley wrote: > > There is one main issue to resolve before I go through and rewrite the > > rc.d scripts. Do we want to keep the existing FreeBSD scripts as much as > > possible? or do we want them to look like NetBSD's? I prefer the former > > myself. I think Kevin's implementation has gone more for the latter. > > I think the former is more likely to result in scripts that > exactly match the current functionality. Why? As long as the same services start up, why does it matter? -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 11:41:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from relay.gnf.org (relay.gnf.org [208.44.31.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D8C937B408 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:41:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gnf.org (smtp.gnf.org [10.0.0.11]) by relay.gnf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9IIfjs29439; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:41:45 -0700 Received: by mail.gnf.org (Postfix, from userid 888) id C1D2A11E508; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:38:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.gnf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD13F11A576; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:38:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:38:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Gordon Tetlow To: Cc: Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap In-Reply-To: <20011018112752.B20348@dragon.nuxi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 18 Oct 2001, David O'Brien wrote: > > > > M4 > > > > Add true dependency checking to the infrastructure so that starting nfsd > > > > will start mountd and rpcbind > > > > > > The dependency checking is part of /etc/rc.d/*. Is there something > > > missing you have found? > > > > Well, once I have booted my machine, I might want to start an nfs server. > > If I just ran /etc/rc.d/nfsd start, it would fail, because that script > > doesn't know enought to start mountd (which in turn doesn't know enough to > > start rpcbind). I had an idea on how to make that all work. But we need to > > crawl before we start sprinting. > > Something must have been missing from your conversion of the rc.d > scripts, because such dependancy infomation is inherent in the NetBSD > rc.d scripts. Here's an example (I'll use nfsd) from NetBSD: #!/bin/sh # # $NetBSD: nfsd,v 1.4 2001/06/16 06:13:10 lukem Exp $ # # PROVIDE: nfsd # REQUIRE: mountd . /etc/rc.subr name="nfsd" rcvar="nfs_server" command="/usr/sbin/${name}" required_vars="mountd rpcbind" load_rc_config $name run_rc_command "$1" All the dependency information is coded in comments. Although, with the required_vars there, it doesn't help to put nfs_server=YES unless you specifically enable mountd and rpcbind, it doesn't do squat. My ultimate goal is to be able to run /etc/rc.d/nfsd forcestart and it would start everything that nfsd needed. I was thinking of writing the script like: #!/bin/sh # # $NetBSD: nfsd,v 1.4 2001/06/16 06:13:10 lukem Exp $ # # PROVIDE: nfsd # REQUIRE: mountd . /etc/rc.subr name="nfsd" rcvar="nfs_server" command="/usr/sbin/${name}" load_rc_config $name depends_on mountd "$1" run_rc_command "$1" This "depends_on" function would figure out (only when starting, of course), whether mountd is started or not, and start it if it isn't. Does that make sense as to what I'm talking about? -gordon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 11:47:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from relay.gnf.org (relay.gnf.org [208.44.31.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9683437B401 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:47:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gnf.org (smtp.gnf.org [10.0.0.11]) by relay.gnf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9IIlBs29519; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:47:11 -0700 Received: by mail.gnf.org (Postfix, from userid 888) id 0957211E509; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:44:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.gnf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0527E11A576; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:44:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:44:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Gordon Tetlow To: Cc: Joe Abley , Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap In-Reply-To: <20011018112838.C20348@dragon.nuxi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 18 Oct 2001, David O'Brien wrote: > On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 01:19:45PM -0400, Joe Abley wrote: > > > There is one main issue to resolve before I go through and rewrite the > > > rc.d scripts. Do we want to keep the existing FreeBSD scripts as much as > > > possible? or do we want them to look like NetBSD's? I prefer the former > > > myself. I think Kevin's implementation has gone more for the latter. > > > > I think the former is more likely to result in scripts that > > exactly match the current functionality. > > Why? As long as the same services start up, why does it matter? Well, then what do you want to do about the massive differences between NetBSD and FreeBSD in /etc/defaults/rc.conf? We have gone with the convention of $_enable while NetBSD has gone with $. I don't want to break the entire history of that, but it's going to cause code divergence. I'd suggest to add conditional code that checks for FreeBSD and add _enable to the rcvar, but I don't really like that idea as it makes it difficult from just looking at the rc script for a program to determine what rc.conf variable to set. I'd love to see NetBSD's and FreeBSD's code converge on this, but I just don't know how feasible it is in the short to near term. -gordon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 11:49:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns.yogotech.com (ns.yogotech.com [206.127.123.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF74137B408 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:49:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nomad.yogotech.com (nomad.yogotech.com [206.127.123.131]) by ns.yogotech.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05411; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:49:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@nomad.yogotech.com) Received: (from nate@localhost) by nomad.yogotech.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29513; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:49:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate) From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15311.9266.464139.798092@nomad.yogotech.com> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:49:22 -0600 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Greg Lehey , FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/scripts? In-Reply-To: References: <20011018101828.A88312@wantadilla.lemis.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.95 under 21.1 (patch 12) "Channel Islands" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: nate@yogotech.com (Nate Williams) Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > BSD/OS has a directory /usr/src/sys/scripts which contains macros for > > kernel debugging. I have a number of macros here that I've > > accumulated over time, and I'd like to commit them. I'd also like to > > modify config(8) to install a .gdbinit in the kernel build directory > > if debugging has been specified; the .gdbinit would load macros from > > ../../scripts in order to help with kernel debugging. > > Wouldn't /var/crash be the logical place for .gdbinit? Yes, and no. Yes because that's where it may be useful, and no because it's a place for crashdumps, not for analyzing crashdumps. Most folks will probably not analyze the crashdumps, or they will copy them off somewhere else so they can free up /var/crash for the next crashdump, so I'd say stick .gdbinit somewhere else. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 12:17:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55F1437B401 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:17:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 15BC914C2E; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 21:17:07 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Gordon Tetlow Cc: "Andrey A. Chernov" , Sheldon Hearn , Yarema , Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 18 Oct 2001 21:17:07 +0200 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lines: 11 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Gordon Tetlow writes: > Refresh my memory as to why nobody is special in NIS land? For one, our rpc.ypupdated is hardcoded to refuse changes to map entries with a key of "nobody". There might be more magic in other places; I'm not really inclined to go groping through NIS sources to find out where. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 12:20: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F302537B40A; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:20:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 9A80A14C2E; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 21:20:01 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Gregory Neil Shapiro Cc: Doug Barton , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New sendmail users (was Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned) References: <29611.1003411145@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> <15311.1383.814782.672622@horsey.gshapiro.net> <3BCF1A60.13C78B28@DougBarton.net> <15311.6913.618332.163251@horsey.gshapiro.net> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 18 Oct 2001 21:20:01 +0200 In-Reply-To: <15311.6913.618332.163251@horsey.gshapiro.net> Message-ID: Lines: 14 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Gregory Neil Shapiro writes: > I'd worry about the confusion of calling it smtp given that user is not > used by the SMTP server (the sendmail daemon), it is used by the MSP (mail > submission program), i.e., when users/programs run sendmail from the > command line for initial submission of the mail. Calling it 'smtp' may > lead people to believe the SMTP daemon uses it. If it's used for the submission client, then use UID 587 and call it something else ("submit", for instance, as "submission" would be too long). DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 12:25:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AAB137B401 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:25:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 08BED14C41; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 21:25:23 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Gordon Tetlow Cc: , Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 18 Oct 2001 21:25:22 +0200 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lines: 14 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Gordon Tetlow writes: > [...] > # PROVIDE: nfsd > # REQUIRE: mountd > [...] > All the dependency information is coded in comments. Although, with the > required_vars there, it doesn't help to put nfs_server=YES unless you > specifically enable mountd and rpcbind, it doesn't do squat. This is what rcorder(8) is for. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 12:26: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DCB937B401 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:26:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hades.hell.gr (patr530-a061.otenet.gr [212.205.215.61]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id f9IJPrO28966; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 22:25:53 +0300 (EEST) Received: (from charon@localhost) by hades.hell.gr (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9IJ2X609291; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 22:02:33 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from charon@labs.gr) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 22:02:33 +0300 (EEST) From: Giorgos Keramidas X-X-Sender: charon@hades To: Gordon Tetlow Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG, Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20011018215427.F8102-100000@hades> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Thu, 18 Oct 2001, David O'Brien wrote: > > There is one main issue to resolve before I go through and rewrite the > rc.d scripts. Do we want to keep the existing FreeBSD scripts as much as > possible? or do we want them to look like NetBSD's? I prefer the former > myself. I think Kevin's implementation has gone more for the latter. Keeping the functionality as close as possible to what we now have is probably a nice idea. This way people that haven't worked with NetBSD a lot (including myself) can help in testing this, too. I'm sure that there are arguments supporting the second option, one of them being that it will make future changes easier to integrate in one of the BSD's reusing the same code. I would go for the second option, exactly because of this. The first option makes things nicer during the testing period, but testing is not going to last forever and having more compatibility among the BSD's in the future is something I seem to like more. -giorgos To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 12:42:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C38A637B403; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:42:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 9E4CA14C2E; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 21:42:01 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Gordon Tetlow Cc: , Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 18 Oct 2001 21:42:01 +0200 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lines: 17 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Gordon Tetlow writes: > M1 (Patch included) > Setup infrastructure > Make rcorder compile Your rcorder patch is incorrect. FreeBSD lacks a prototype for fparseln(). It so happens that it doesn't make any difference on any of the platforms FreeBSD supports (because our ints and pointers are the same size), but that's no reason not to do things right. Also, I don't see the point in munging the Makefile like you do - I think we can live with having a Makefile that's slightly (and trivially) different from NetBSD's. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 12:42:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from buffoon.automagic.org (buffoon.automagic.org [208.185.30.208]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5BFD937B401 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:42:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 1456 invoked by uid 1000); 18 Oct 2001 19:42:43 -0000 Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:42:43 -0400 From: Joe Abley To: arch@freebsd.org Cc: Gordon Tetlow , kevin.way@overtone.org Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap Message-ID: <20011018154243.U92370@buffoon.automagic.org> References: <20011018091927.A18621@dragon.nuxi.com> <20011018131944.O92370@buffoon.automagic.org> <20011018112838.C20348@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20011018112838.C20348@dragon.nuxi.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.22.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 11:28:38AM -0700, David O'Brien wrote: > On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 01:19:45PM -0400, Joe Abley wrote: > > > There is one main issue to resolve before I go through and rewrite the > > > rc.d scripts. Do we want to keep the existing FreeBSD scripts as much as > > > possible? or do we want them to look like NetBSD's? I prefer the former > > > myself. I think Kevin's implementation has gone more for the latter. > > > > I think the former is more likely to result in scripts that > > exactly match the current functionality. > > Why? Because FreeBSD and NetBSD boot systems are different, and it seems likely that the current FreeBSD behaviour will be most easily emulated by hacking on the FreeBSD scripts rather than NetBSD ones. > As long as the same services start up, why does it matter? The question is how best to ensure that the same services start up (in response to the same configuration). Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 12:48: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E882937B403; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:47:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 973B114C2E; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 21:47:53 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Gordon Tetlow Cc: , Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 18 Oct 2001 21:47:53 +0200 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lines: 9 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > Your rcorder patch is incorrect. Here's a correct patch. Does anybody mind if I commit this and connect rcorder(8) to the build? DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 12:48:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E067937B40D; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id D94C314C41; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 21:48:03 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Gordon Tetlow Cc: , Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 18 Oct 2001 21:48:03 +0200 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lines: 12 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --=-=-= Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > Your rcorder patch is incorrect. Here's a correct patch. Does anybody mind if I commit this and connect rcorder(8) to the build? DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-patch Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=rcorder.diff Index: Makefile =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sbin/rcorder/Makefile,v retrieving revision 1.1.1.1 diff -u -r1.1.1.1 Makefile --- Makefile 16 Jun 2001 07:16:14 -0000 1.1.1.1 +++ Makefile 18 Oct 2001 19:44:57 -0000 @@ -3,11 +3,12 @@ PROG= rcorder SRCS= ealloc.c hash.c rcorder.c MAN= rcorder.8 +WARNS?= 2 LDADD+= -lutil DPADD+= ${LIBUTIL} # XXX hack for make's hash.[ch] -CPPFLAGS+= -DORDER +CFLAGS+= -DORDER .include Index: rcorder.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sbin/rcorder/rcorder.c,v retrieving revision 1.1.1.1 diff -u -r1.1.1.1 rcorder.c --- rcorder.c 16 Jun 2001 07:16:14 -0000 1.1.1.1 +++ rcorder.c 18 Oct 2001 19:45:27 -0000 @@ -41,7 +41,11 @@ #include #include #include +#if defined(__NetBSD__) #include +#else +char *fparseln(FILE *, size_t *, size_t *, const char[3], int); +#endif #include "ealloc.h" #include "sprite.h" --=-=-=-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 12:49:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DC0537B408; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:49:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 8309714C2E; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 21:49:05 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Gordon Tetlow Cc: , Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 18 Oct 2001 21:49:05 +0200 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lines: 11 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --=-=-= Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > Here's a correct patch. Murphy's Law of Attachments, etc. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-patch Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=rcorder.diff Index: Makefile =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sbin/rcorder/Makefile,v retrieving revision 1.1.1.1 diff -u -r1.1.1.1 Makefile --- Makefile 16 Jun 2001 07:16:14 -0000 1.1.1.1 +++ Makefile 18 Oct 2001 19:44:57 -0000 @@ -3,11 +3,12 @@ PROG= rcorder SRCS= ealloc.c hash.c rcorder.c MAN= rcorder.8 +WARNS?= 2 LDADD+= -lutil DPADD+= ${LIBUTIL} # XXX hack for make's hash.[ch] -CPPFLAGS+= -DORDER +CFLAGS+= -DORDER .include Index: rcorder.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sbin/rcorder/rcorder.c,v retrieving revision 1.1.1.1 diff -u -r1.1.1.1 rcorder.c --- rcorder.c 16 Jun 2001 07:16:14 -0000 1.1.1.1 +++ rcorder.c 18 Oct 2001 19:45:27 -0000 @@ -41,7 +41,11 @@ #include #include #include +#if defined(__NetBSD__) #include +#else +char *fparseln(FILE *, size_t *, size_t *, const char[3], int); +#endif #include "ealloc.h" #include "sprite.h" --=-=-=-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 12:56:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from horsey.gshapiro.net (horsey.gshapiro.net [209.220.147.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1376037B40A for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:56:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from horsey.gshapiro.net (gshapiro@localhost [IPv6:::1]) by horsey.gshapiro.net (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id f9IJu5NM022617 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:56:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gshapiro@localhost) by horsey.gshapiro.net (8.12.1/8.12.1/Submit) id f9IJu5F9022614; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:56:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15311.13269.286373.567737@horsey.gshapiro.net> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:56:05 -0700 From: Gregory Neil Shapiro To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Doug Barton , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New sendmail users (was Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned) In-Reply-To: References: <29611.1003411145@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> <15311.1383.814782.672622@horsey.gshapiro.net> <3BCF1A60.13C78B28@DougBarton.net> <15311.6913.618332.163251@horsey.gshapiro.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.96 under 21.5 (beta3) "asparagus" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG des> If it's used for the submission client, then use UID 587 Again, the daemon lists on port 587 and doesn't use that user ID. It's for the mail submission program (MSP), not mail submission agent (MSA). Also, I thought that were was unwritten rule that system UIDs were under 100. des> call it something else ("submit", for instance, as "submission" would des> be too long). Sigh, I had hoped to leave it as documented in the sendmail docs instead of having FreeBSD be different than other operating systems. OpenBSD and Solaris 9 have already adopted smmsp, uid 25. The FreeBSD port also has been using smmsp. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 12:57:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail-relay1.yahoo.com (mail-relay1.yahoo.com [216.145.48.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0CF237B403; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:57:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DougBarton.net (db-cvad-2-tmp.yahoo.com [216.145.48.243]) by mail-relay1.yahoo.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 455548B5B0; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:57:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3BCF3462.98C02755@DougBarton.net> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:58:26 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Gregory Neil Shapiro , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New sendmail users (was Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned) References: <29611.1003411145@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> <15311.1383.814782.672622@horsey.gshapiro.net> <3BCF1A60.13C78B28@DougBarton.net> <15311.6913.618332.163251@horsey.gshapiro.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > Gregory Neil Shapiro writes: > > I'd worry about the confusion of calling it smtp given that user is not > > used by the SMTP server (the sendmail daemon), it is used by the MSP (mail > > submission program), i.e., when users/programs run sendmail from the > > command line for initial submission of the mail. Calling it 'smtp' may > > lead people to believe the SMTP daemon uses it. > > If it's used for the submission client, then use UID 587 and call it > something else Yeah, sorry... I guess I misunderstood. If it's not going to be the uid of the smtp daemon, then yes, I agree with des. > ("submit", for instance, as "submission" would be too > long). We can have usernames <= 16 characters on 4.x and over, so submission would be my first choice, to match the service name. Otherwise, the original proposition of smmsp works fine. And since you won't be using uid 25 for the first one, how about 65533 for the nullmail user? That's (uid of nobody) - 1 for those keeping score at home. Promising to pay more attention in the future... Doug -- "We will not tire, we will not falter, and we will not fail." - George W. Bush, President of the United States September 20, 2001 Do YOU Yahoo!? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 13: 0:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 578D737B407; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:00:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 006BD14C2E; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 22:00:35 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Gregory Neil Shapiro Cc: Doug Barton , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New sendmail users (was Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned) References: <29611.1003411145@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> <15311.1383.814782.672622@horsey.gshapiro.net> <3BCF1A60.13C78B28@DougBarton.net> <15311.6913.618332.163251@horsey.gshapiro.net> <15311.13269.286373.567737@horsey.gshapiro.net> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 18 Oct 2001 22:00:35 +0200 In-Reply-To: <15311.13269.286373.567737@horsey.gshapiro.net> Message-ID: Lines: 10 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Gregory Neil Shapiro writes: > [...] Do whatever you like. I'll reserve the right to think that grabbing UID 25 for a sendmail-specific program that isn't even an SMTP daemon smacks of "all the world's sendmail". DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 13:12:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.noos.fr (racine.noos.net [212.198.2.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26FBE37B407 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:12:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 7438293 invoked by uid 0); 18 Oct 2001 20:07:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gits.dyndns.org) ([212.198.231.187]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.71 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 18 Oct 2001 20:07:22 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by gits.dyndns.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9IK7Jl05225; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 22:07:19 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root) Message-Id: <200110182007.f9IK7Jl05225@gits.dyndns.org> Subject: Re: nobody war (was Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned) In-Reply-To: <20011018162214.A65563@exxodus.fedaykin.here> To: Mario Sergio Fujikawa Ferreira Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 22:07:18 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Sheldon Hearn , "Andrey A. Chernov" , ports@FreeBSD.ORG, arch@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: clefevre@citeweb.net From: Cyrille Lefevre Organization: ACME X-Face: X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL94c (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mario Sergio Fujikawa Ferreira wrote: > On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 07:54:30PM +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > Cyrille Lefevre writes: > > > how about setiathome, dnetc and junkbuster which also run as nobody. > > > setiathome and dnetc own files respectively in /var/db/setiathome and > > > /usr/local/distributed.net. > > > > > > I'm not running it, but squid is probably running as nobody as well since > > > /usr/local/squid/{logs,cache} are owned by nobody. > > > > I am not responsible for other people's broken software. > > I run squid as squid:squid and http as www:www with no > problems. I don't understand what's the point of this discussion. > Since we stablished that running as nobody is not a good thing, > we should be discussing what to replace it with. > I vote to creating uid:gid for all appropriate services: I'm all w/ you. how about uid:gid numbering ? > mail or smtp which packages use these user names ? > www no comment. > squid does it require static uid:gid numbers or follow the postfix dynamic rule ? /usr/ports/mail/postfix/pkg-install seem to be a good starting point to create uid:gid dynamically and is BATCH (aka PACKAGE_BUILDING) compliant. /usr/ports/mail/qmail/pkg-install is a little bit complicated but seems to be also BATCH compliant. could we stated that all packages using user nobody should be switched to package name uid:gid (such as setiathome -> seti, dnetc -> dnetc, etc.) and use some sort of script ? Cyrille. -- Cyrille Lefevre mailto:clefevre@citeweb.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 13:16:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.144]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8757B37B401 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:16:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bean.overtone.org ([24.249.254.100]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011018201643.LGTR14800.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@bean.overtone.org>; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:16:43 -0700 Received: by bean.overtone.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 1F15F5B489; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 20:16:08 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 20:16:08 +0000 From: Kevin Way To: arch@freebsd.org Cc: gordont@gnf.org Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap Message-ID: <20011018201608.A3807@bean.overtone.org> References: <20011018091927.A18621@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20011018091927.A18621@dragon.nuxi.com>; from obrien@freebsd.org on Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 09:19:27AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Kevin Way had a prototype at that he mentioned > in http://overtone.org/rc.d/ freebsd-hackers. Back in August he said > that after some travel he would clean it up more and it would probably be > in a state for beta testing. I guess he got a little delayed in that. I went and got myself a new job, and entered new job crunch mode. To be honest I don't see myself having enough free time to be able to do significant work until January or so. =20 --=20 Kevin Way http://www.overtone.org/ --NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7zziHKxA01iDoLN4RAta4AKClbdFbL2cJ5r2ECgYugOjR+Ech9QCdGNXK jq8g+ofyy4HzqmtmuWPmuzk= =XWV9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 13:29:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from relay.gnf.org (relay.gnf.org [208.44.31.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8B1637B405 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:29:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gnf.org (smtp.gnf.org [10.0.0.11]) by relay.gnf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9IKTos31561; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:29:54 -0700 Received: by mail.gnf.org (Postfix, from userid 888) id 6D06B11E508; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:26:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.gnf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 688C411A572; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:26:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:26:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Gordon Tetlow To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: , Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 18 Oct 2001, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Gordon Tetlow writes: > > [...] > > # PROVIDE: nfsd > > # REQUIRE: mountd > > [...] > > All the dependency information is coded in comments. Although, with the > > required_vars there, it doesn't help to put nfs_server=YES unless you > > specifically enable mountd and rpcbind, it doesn't do squat. > > This is what rcorder(8) is for. rcorder(8) only works at boot. If you can provide me a way to say "Show me all the dependencies of nfsd" then I'll go be quiet and finish porting the NetBSD scripts. (Well, I'll finish porting them before I go and add this functionality.) But AFAIK (and maybe I'm missing something that's obvious to you guys), you can't find out what nfsd requires other than grep REQUIRE /etc/rc.d/nfsd There is no way to start nfsd just by going /etc/rc.d/nfsd forcestart. Period. This is because the script itself has no way of figuring out what else needs to be started. It (somewhat stupidly) just tries to start nfsd without any regard for any dependencies. It may examine the mountd_enable rc flag, but that doesn't necessarily reflect reality. -gordon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 13:34:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from relay.gnf.org (relay.gnf.org [208.44.31.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F7E637B408; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:34:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gnf.org (smtp.gnf.org [10.0.0.11]) by relay.gnf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9IKYns31671; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:34:49 -0700 Received: by mail.gnf.org (Postfix, from userid 888) id 94D3111E508; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.gnf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90EA311A572; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:31:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Gordon Tetlow To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: , Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 18 Oct 2001, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Gordon Tetlow writes: > > M1 (Patch included) > > Setup infrastructure > > Make rcorder compile > > Your rcorder patch is incorrect. FreeBSD lacks a prototype for > fparseln(). It so happens that it doesn't make any difference on any > of the platforms FreeBSD supports (because our ints and pointers are > the same size), but that's no reason not to do things right. I was wondering about that warning myself, but it seemed to work and I don't try to pretend to be a master of C. I'll stick to the shell world in general. > Also, I don't see the point in munging the Makefile like you do - I > think we can live with having a Makefile that's slightly (and > trivially) different from NetBSD's. Fair enough, everyone seemed to be touting the flag of portability so I just added it into the mix as well. -gordon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 13:38:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from relay.gnf.org (relay.gnf.org [208.44.31.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3717837B40A; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:38:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gnf.org (smtp.gnf.org [10.0.0.11]) by relay.gnf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9IKcQs31735; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:38:26 -0700 Received: by mail.gnf.org (Postfix, from userid 888) id 8F2DC11E508; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:35:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.gnf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 889A311A572; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:35:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:35:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Gordon Tetlow To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: , Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 18 Oct 2001, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > > Your rcorder patch is incorrect. > > Here's a correct patch. Does anybody mind if I commit this and > connect rcorder(8) to the build? Actually, fparseln() is defined in libutil.h (per the man page). I don't have my current box available (power outage at home), but if you could look over it, it should work. -gordon Index: rcorder.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sbin/rcorder/rcorder.c,v retrieving revision 1.1.1.1 diff -u -r1.1.1.1 rcorder.c --- rcorder.c 16 Jun 2001 07:16:14 -0000 1.1.1.1 +++ rcorder.c 18 Oct 2001 19:45:27 -0000 @@ -41,7 +41,11 @@ #include #include #include +#if defined(__NetBSD__) #include +#else +#include +#endif #include "ealloc.h" #include "sprite.h" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 13:39:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from tara.freenix.org (keltia.freenix.org [62.4.20.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4129437B407 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:39:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by tara.freenix.org (Postfix/TLS, from userid 101) id 111552CAD; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 22:39:27 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 22:39:27 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Randell Jesup , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c Message-ID: <20011018223926.A41916@tara.freenix.org> References: <200110110851.f9B8ptf60343@freefall.freebsd.org><20011011112527.A54224@coffee.q9media.com><20011011154203.C44561@dragon.nuxi.com><20011013143225.B4527@ns2.freenix.org><20011013172706.A53976@dragon.nuxi.com><20011014160303.A22301@ns2.freenix.org><20011014194232.A50125@dragon.nuxi.com><00005ba2015f4b07d1@[192.168.1.4]> <0000157003191707d1@[192.168.1.4]> <200110171738.f9HHctk99143@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200110171738.f9HHctk99143@apollo.backplane.com>; from dillon@apollo.backplane.com on Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 10:38:55AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT K6-3D/266 & 2x PPro/200 SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Matthew Dillon: > non 8:1 ratios, but nobody has done any definitive tests recently > and despite Poul's labeling it all FUD, I am unwilling to allow newfs > to default to anything other then an 8:1 ratio. I tend to agree. I've fixed newfs BTW (bde's fix) and will MFC it soon. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 5.0-CURRENT #80: Sun Jun 4 22:44:19 CEST 2000 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 13:42:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2279D37B408; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:42:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id C5EC314C2E; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 22:42:47 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Gordon Tetlow Cc: , Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 18 Oct 2001 22:42:47 +0200 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lines: 11 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Gordon Tetlow writes: > Actually, fparseln() is defined in libutil.h (per the man page). I don't > have my current box available (power outage at home), but if you could > look over it, it should work. Ah, that's right - I couldn't find the right header, I should have simply looked at the libutil Makefile. Thanks! DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 13:43:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from relay.gnf.org (relay.gnf.org [208.44.31.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECAF637B401 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:43:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gnf.org (smtp.gnf.org [10.0.0.11]) by relay.gnf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9IKhks31849; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:43:46 -0700 Received: by mail.gnf.org (Postfix, from userid 888) id 38CBC11E508; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:40:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.gnf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 351BA11A572; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:40:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:40:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Gordon Tetlow To: Cc: Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap In-Reply-To: <20011018112752.B20348@dragon.nuxi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 18 Oct 2001, David O'Brien wrote: > On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 09:46:13AM -0700, Gordon Tetlow wrote: > > > Can you look at Kevin's work and see if you two could merge it into one > > > prototype? > > > > I just looked briefly at it. I think we are actually in about the same > > place, although he's a bit further along on the scripts. Although most of > > them are directly from NetBSD and not a conversion of the existing FreeBSD > > boot scripts/order. > > That is what we want -- as small a deveration from the NetBSD ones as > possible. Otherwise there is no way they will accept our changes (unless > they clearly give a measurable enhancement). We want to share this > common source as much as possible -- gratuitous changes from the NetBSD > rc.d system will not benefit anyone. Going from our existing RC scripts > to an rc.d system is a big enough upheaval that we(FreeBSD) can accept a > large change from our existing RC scripts (ie, a direct conversion is not > as needed). How should we handle differences? Something like: os=`sysctl -n kern.ostype` case ${os} in FreeBSD) # Stuff for FreeBSD ;; NetBSD) # Stuff for NetBSD seac would do the job. Remember, uname isn't always accessible. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 13:50:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from tara.freenix.org (keltia.freenix.org [62.4.20.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A95F37B403 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:50:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by tara.freenix.org (Postfix/TLS, from userid 101) id 9BA302C97; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 22:50:23 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 22:50:23 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: Randell Jesup Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG, Matt Dillon Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c Message-ID: <20011018225023.B41916@tara.freenix.org> References: <200110110851.f9B8ptf60343@freefall.freebsd.org><20011011112527.A54224@coffee.q9media.com><20011011154203.C44561@dragon.nuxi.com><20011013143225.B4527@ns2.freenix.org><20011013172706.A53976@dragon.nuxi.com><20011014160303.A22301@ns2.freenix.org><20011014194232.A50125@dragon.nuxi.com><00005ba2015f4b07d1@[192.168.1.4]> <0000157003191707d1@[192.168.1.4]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <0000157003191707d1@[192.168.1.4]>; from rjesup@wgate.com on Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 10:40:19AM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT K6-3D/266 & 2x PPro/200 SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Randell Jesup: > So, do we really have problems with 16k/4k/64? If so, let's fix the > problems. I don't know really if we have problems with something other than a 8:1 ratio but 4k is too big IMO and wastes too much space. > Or should we reduce the defaults to 16k/2k? If so, what about existing > FS's with these values? If values above that are broken, should we > disable them in newfs, or at least print a warning? I'm all for 16/2k regardless of the FS size. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 5.0-CURRENT #80: Sun Jun 4 22:44:19 CEST 2000 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 14: 5:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB9A837B401 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:05:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 3F50414C2E; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 23:05:15 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Gordon Tetlow Cc: , Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 18 Oct 2001 23:05:14 +0200 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lines: 18 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Gordon Tetlow writes: > rcorder(8) only works at boot. If you can provide me a way to say "Show me > all the dependencies of nfsd" then I'll go be quiet and finish porting the > NetBSD scripts. Sorry, I overestimated rcorder(8), it just does a topological sort of the specified files - I thought it was smart enough to go look for missing dependencies. I don't think it would be hard to add that functionality to rcorder, but detecting whether a dependency is already running might be tricky. Honestly, I don't see this as a top priority; our current rc system doesn't provide a mechanism for starting nfsd on its own either, so we're not exactly losing existing functionality. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 14: 6:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from relay.gnf.org (relay.gnf.org [208.44.31.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6AAD37B405 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:06:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gnf.org (smtp.gnf.org [10.0.0.11]) by relay.gnf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9IL6Fs32174; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:06:15 -0700 Received: by mail.gnf.org (Postfix, from userid 888) id 1B41211E508; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:03:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.gnf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1801111A572; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:03:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:03:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Gordon Tetlow To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: , Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 18 Oct 2001, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Honestly, I don't see this as a top priority; our current rc system > doesn't provide a mechanism for starting nfsd on its own either, so > we're not exactly losing existing functionality. Yup, that's why it's M4. -gordon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 14:30:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.noos.fr (racine.noos.net [212.198.2.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AAFF37B40C for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:30:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 7736643 invoked by uid 0); 18 Oct 2001 21:30:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gits.dyndns.org) ([212.198.231.187]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.71 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 18 Oct 2001 21:30:01 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by gits.dyndns.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9ILTxH07817; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 23:29:59 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root) Message-Id: <200110182129.f9ILTxH07817@gits.dyndns.org> Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap In-Reply-To: To: Gordon Tetlow Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 23:29:59 +0200 (CEST) Cc: arch@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, chris@freebsd.org, rwatson@freebsd.org, sheldonh@freebsd.org Reply-To: clefevre@citeweb.net From: Cyrille Lefevre Organization: ACME X-Face: X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL94c (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=ELM1003440599-5614-0_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --ELM1003440599-5614-0_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi, I've prepared a status report about this project. the xml file in attachment have to be reviewed since I've just put descriptions from FreeBSD-rc's Yahoo! Group and your email message. first of all, there should be a consensus about the owner of this project ? also, who create the FreeBSD-rc's Yahoo! Group ? then you have to submit a status report to avoid duplicates work... I also done some stuffs on this some months ago, but I have to review it. don't remember the status of my job... :( Cyrille. -- Cyrille Lefevre mailto:clefevre@citeweb.net --ELM1003440599-5614-0_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/xml Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=report.xml Content-Description: report.xml Improving FreeBSD startup scripts Doug Barton Commiter DougB@FreeBSD.org Gordon Tetlow Contributor gordont@gnf.org Improving FreeBSD startup scripts Luke Mewburn's papers NetBSD Initialization and Services Control <-- from http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreeBSD-rc/ -->

This group is for discussion about the startup scripts in FreeBSD, primarily the scripts in /etc/rc*. Primary focus will be on improvements and importation of NetBSD's excellent work on this topic.

<-- from Pine.LNX.4.33.0110180824570.30874-200000@smtp.gnf.org -->

Alright folks, I finally got off my butt last night and put together a roadmap for the migration to the new rc.d init scripts that were imported from NetBSD a long time ago and just sat in the tree.

M1 (Patch included)
Setup infrastructure
Make rcorder compile
Hook rc.subr into the distribution (and mergemaster)
Hook rcorder into the world
Add toggle in rc.conf to switch between rc_ng and current boot scripts

M2
Get FreeBSD to boot with the new boot scripts
Rewrite the /etc/rc.d scripts to work with FreeBSD

M3
Add some FreeBSD specific support into rc.subr

M4
Add true dependency checking to the infrastructure so that starting nfsd will start mountd and rpcbind
Add support into rc.subr
Add dependencies into rc.d scripts

I'd like a couple of people to take a look at this and then I'll submit a pr for it if there aren't too many objections. I'm expecting M2 to run into quite a bikeshed, but hey, I got my nice shiny asbestos back from the cleaners.

 --ELM1003440599-5614-0_-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 14:31:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from squall.waterspout.com (squall.waterspout.com [208.13.56.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC22837B407 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:31:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by squall.waterspout.com (Postfix, from userid 1050) id 35DC99B08; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 16:30:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 16:30:33 -0500 From: Will Andrews To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Gordon Tetlow , arch@freebsd.org, kevin.way@overtone.org Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap Message-ID: <20011018163033.C57251@squall.waterspout.com> Reply-To: Will Andrews Mail-Followup-To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Gordon Tetlow , arch@freebsd.org, kevin.way@overtone.org References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.22.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 11:05:14PM +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Sorry, I overestimated rcorder(8), it just does a topological sort of > the specified files - I thought it was smart enough to go look for > missing dependencies. I don't think it would be hard to add that > functionality to rcorder, but detecting whether a dependency is > already running might be tricky. Not if it's made a point to always provide a pidfile, be it using getpid() or ps(1) in conjunction with awk(1)+grep(1). -- wca To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 14:33:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from femail36.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail36.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FB7F37B401 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:33:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx ([24.2.39.156]) by femail36.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011018213333.IAOR27661.femail36.sdc1.sfba.home.com@laptop.baldwin.cx>; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:33:33 -0700 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <15311.9266.464139.798092@nomad.yogotech.com> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:33:27 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: Nate Williams Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/scripts? Cc: FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.ORG, Greg Lehey , Dag-Erling Smorgrav Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 18-Oct-01 Nate Williams wrote: >> > BSD/OS has a directory /usr/src/sys/scripts which contains macros for >> > kernel debugging. I have a number of macros here that I've >> > accumulated over time, and I'd like to commit them. I'd also like to >> > modify config(8) to install a .gdbinit in the kernel build directory >> > if debugging has been specified; the .gdbinit would load macros from >> > ../../scripts in order to help with kernel debugging. >> >> Wouldn't /var/crash be the logical place for .gdbinit? > > Yes, and no. Yes because that's where it may be useful, and no because > it's a place for crashdumps, not for analyzing crashdumps. > > Most folks will probably not analyze the crashdumps, or they will copy > them off somewhere else so they can free up /var/crash for the next > crashdump, so I'd say stick .gdbinit somewhere else. I actually put .gdbinit* in my home directory and run gdb from the compile dir like so: cd /some/src/tree/sys/${ARCH}/compile/FOO gdb -k kernel.debug /var/crash/vmcore.XX -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 14:34: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from femail11.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail11.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.107]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FD6B37B401; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx ([24.2.39.156]) by femail11.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011018213350.QCEE4652.femail11.sdc1.sfba.home.com@laptop.baldwin.cx>; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:33:50 -0700 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:33:39 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org, Gordon Tetlow Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 18-Oct-01 Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Gordon Tetlow writes: >> M1 (Patch included) >> Setup infrastructure >> Make rcorder compile > > Your rcorder patch is incorrect. FreeBSD lacks a prototype for > fparseln(). It so happens that it doesn't make any difference on any > of the platforms FreeBSD supports (because our ints and pointers are > the same size), but that's no reason not to do things right. Huh? Int on alpha is 32, and pointer is 64. -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 14:35:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 952AA37B403; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:35:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 650A714C2E; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 23:35:12 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: John Baldwin Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org, Gordon Tetlow Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 18 Oct 2001 23:35:11 +0200 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lines: 9 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Baldwin writes: > Huh? Int on alpha is 32, and pointer is 64. I thought we were ILP64 on 64-bit archs, but you're right. And I ought to know better... DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 14:38:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2756837B405 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:38:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 9C03314C2E; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 23:38:28 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Will Andrews Cc: Gordon Tetlow , arch@freebsd.org, kevin.way@overtone.org Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap References: <20011018163033.C57251@squall.waterspout.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 18 Oct 2001 23:38:28 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20011018163033.C57251@squall.waterspout.com> Message-ID: Lines: 11 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Will Andrews writes: > Not if it's made a point to always provide a pidfile, be it using > getpid() or ps(1) in conjunction with awk(1)+grep(1). What pidfile is /etc/rc.d/ipfilter going to leave behind? Part of the sequence for starting ipfilter is "ipf -E -Fa", so you defintely do *not* want to run it by accident. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 14:41:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from squall.waterspout.com (squall.waterspout.com [208.13.56.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E073637B401 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:41:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by squall.waterspout.com (Postfix, from userid 1050) id 51EA69B19; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 16:40:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 16:40:26 -0500 From: Will Andrews To: arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap Message-ID: <20011018164026.A25747@squall.waterspout.com> Reply-To: Will Andrews Mail-Followup-To: arch@FreeBSD.org References: <20011018163033.C57251@squall.waterspout.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.22.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 11:38:28PM +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > What pidfile is /etc/rc.d/ipfilter going to leave behind? Part of the > sequence for starting ipfilter is "ipf -E -Fa", so you defintely do > *not* want to run it by accident. Well, obviously there will be some different interpretations of the "start", "stop", "restart", etc. arguments. But everything that starts a daemon should have a corresponding pidfile. -- wca To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 15:12:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4788937B407 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:12:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id B607214C2E; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 00:12:31 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Will Andrews Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap References: <20011018163033.C57251@squall.waterspout.com> <20011018164026.A25747@squall.waterspout.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 19 Oct 2001 00:12:31 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20011018164026.A25747@squall.waterspout.com> Message-ID: Lines: 47 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Will Andrews writes: > On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 11:38:28PM +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > What pidfile is /etc/rc.d/ipfilter going to leave behind? Part of the > > sequence for starting ipfilter is "ipf -E -Fa", so you defintely do > > *not* want to run it by accident. > Well, obviously there will be some different interpretations of > the "start", "stop", "restart", etc. arguments. But everything > that starts a daemon should have a corresponding pidfile. My point is that the service you want to start may depend on another service that just configures something, but doesn't start a daemon (ipfilter is an example), so you can't always just check the pidfile to see if a service has ben started. Also, the presence of a pidfile does not necessarily mean the process is actually running (rc.subr is smart enough to check if the PID listed in the pidfile exists, but that's no guarantee either). Currently, NetBSD's rc system has no way of checking if ipfilter is already configured before starting it, but ipfilter is a prerequisite for network, which is a prerequisite for just about everything, including nfsd, which was the example Gordon brought up, so trying to start nfsd "and all its dependencies" will flush all ipfilter rules, including dynamic rules, which means killing all established connections if you're using stateful inspection. Not the kind of thing you'd enjoy discovering the hard way by typing "/etc/rc.d/nfsd start" in an ssh session to a server that's on the other side of town. (it'll also flush the routing table as a side effect of starting the "network" service, btw, so you're screwed even if you don't use stateful inspection) This issue is sufficiently complex that I actually think a small well-thought-out special-purpose script language would be better suited to this task that a bunch of shell scripts + rcorder, but that is probably a far too politically controversial suggestion. (it's all a matter of interdependent objects on which you can perform various operations, so a Real Hacker would come up with a lightweight object-oriented script language that could not only manage the startup sequence but replace make(1) as well. ... why are you all looking at me like that?) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 15:16:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.noos.fr (racine.noos.net [212.198.2.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD63E37B403 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:16:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 7798479 invoked by uid 0); 18 Oct 2001 22:16:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gits.dyndns.org) ([212.198.231.187]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.71 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 18 Oct 2001 22:16:16 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by gits.dyndns.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9IMGFU10016; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 00:16:15 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root) Message-Id: <200110182216.f9IMGFU10016@gits.dyndns.org> Subject: Re: New sendmail users (was Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned) In-Reply-To: <3BCF1A60.13C78B28@DougBarton.net> To: Doug Barton Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 00:16:15 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Gregory Neil Shapiro , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: clefevre@citeweb.net From: Cyrille Lefevre Organization: ACME X-Face: X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL94c (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Doug Barton wrote: > My only objection is the name of the user for uid 25. It should be > smtp, both to match the service name for the port, and to make it more > generic which will help us avoid the inevitable whining and crying from > the anti-sendmail crowd. Port 26 is currently unassigned, so it's as > good a candidate for your mailnull user as any. I think that name is a > little wacky, but since that's the default in sendmail and there's no > contenders for port 26, it's as good as any I suppose. :) do you care about default user names and uids of other platforms such as HP-UX, Solairs, IRIX, AIX, etc. ? as I remember me smtp is already used by Solaris an is 0. this may cause problems in a NIS/NFS environment... Cyrille. -- Cyrille Lefevre mailto:clefevre@citeweb.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 15:20:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.noos.fr (claudel.noos.net [212.198.2.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C487637B40A for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:20:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 1293418 invoked by uid 0); 18 Oct 2001 22:20:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gits.dyndns.org) ([212.198.231.187]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.83 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 18 Oct 2001 22:20:05 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by gits.dyndns.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9IMK3Z10669; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 00:20:03 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root) Message-Id: <200110182220.f9IMK3Z10669@gits.dyndns.org> Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap In-Reply-To: <200110182129.f9ILTxH07817@gits.dyndns.org> To: clefevre@citeweb.net Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 00:20:03 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Gordon Tetlow , arch@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, chris@freebsd.org, rwatson@freebsd.org, sheldonh@freebsd.org Reply-To: clefevre@citeweb.net From: Cyrille Lefevre Organization: ACME X-Face: X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL94c (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=ELM1003443603-10647-0_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --ELM1003443603-10647-0_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII after reading -arch, the contact and links sections have been updated. Cyrille. -- Cyrille Lefevre mailto:clefevre@citeweb.net --ELM1003443603-10647-0_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/xml Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=report.xml Content-Description: report.xml rcNG: Improving FreeBSD startup scripts Doug Barton Commiter DougB@FreeBSD.org Kevin Way Contributor Kevin.Way@overtone.org Gordon Tetlow Contributor gordont@gnf.org Improving FreeBSD startup scripts Luke Mewburn's papers NetBSD Initialization and Services Control FreeBSD rc.d reorganization project <-- from http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreeBSD-rc/ -->

This group is for discussion about the startup scripts in FreeBSD, primarily the scripts in /etc/rc*. Primary focus will be on improvements and importation of NetBSD's excellent work on this topic.

<-- from Pine.LNX.4.33.0110180824570.30874-200000@smtp.gnf.org -->

Alright folks, I finally got off my butt last night and put together a roadmap for the migration to the new rc.d init scripts that were imported from NetBSD a long time ago and just sat in the tree.

M1 (Patch included)
Setup infrastructure
Make rcorder compile
Hook rc.subr into the distribution (and mergemaster)
Hook rcorder into the world
Add toggle in rc.conf to switch between rc_ng and current boot scripts

M2
Get FreeBSD to boot with the new boot scripts
Rewrite the /etc/rc.d scripts to work with FreeBSD

M3
Add some FreeBSD specific support into rc.subr

M4
Add true dependency checking to the infrastructure so that starting nfsd will start mountd and rpcbind
Add support into rc.subr
Add dependencies into rc.d scripts

I'd like a couple of people to take a look at this and then I'll submit a pr for it if there aren't too many objections. I'm expecting M2 to run into quite a bikeshed, but hey, I got my nice shiny asbestos back from the cleaners.

 --ELM1003443603-10647-0_-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 15:49:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.noos.fr (camus.noos.net [212.198.2.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D150B37B403 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:49:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 82323127 invoked by uid 0); 18 Oct 2001 22:49:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gits.dyndns.org) ([212.198.231.187]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.70 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 18 Oct 2001 22:49:20 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by gits.dyndns.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9IMnJk11734; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 00:49:19 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root) Message-Id: <200110182249.f9IMnJk11734@gits.dyndns.org> Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap In-Reply-To: To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 00:49:18 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Gordon Tetlow , arch@freebsd.org, kevin.way@overtone.org Reply-To: clefevre@citeweb.net From: Cyrille Lefevre Organization: ACME X-Face: X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL94c (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Gordon Tetlow writes: > > [...] > > # PROVIDE: nfsd > > # REQUIRE: mountd > > [...] > > All the dependency information is coded in comments. Although, with the > > required_vars there, it doesn't help to put nfs_server=YES unless you > > specifically enable mountd and rpcbind, it doesn't do squat. > > This is what rcorder(8) is for. you are wrong, rcorder isn't usable in such condition. it can be only used at boot time w/ all files in parameter. let's try : cat << EOF > /tmp/nfsd # PROVIDE: nfsd # REQUIRE: mountd EOF cat << EOF > /tmp/mountd # PROVIDE: mountd EOF rcorder /tmp/nfsd rcorder: requirement `mountd' in file `/tmp/nfsd' has no providers. /tmp/nfsd Gordon (and I) say he would be allowed to do : /etc/rc.d/nfsd [force]start which start mountd (and rpcbind) if required. using NetBSD rc script, this is not feasible in the current state. Cyrille. -- Cyrille Lefevre mailto:clefevre@citeweb.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 15:58: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.noos.fr (claudel.noos.net [212.198.2.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEB5037B403 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:58:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 1321597 invoked by uid 0); 18 Oct 2001 22:58:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gits.dyndns.org) ([212.198.231.187]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.83 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 18 Oct 2001 22:58:02 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by gits.dyndns.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9IMw1l12038; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 00:58:01 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root) Message-Id: <200110182258.f9IMw1l12038@gits.dyndns.org> Subject: Re: New sendmail users (was Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned) In-Reply-To: <3BCF3462.98C02755@DougBarton.net> To: Doug Barton Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 00:58:01 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Gregory Neil Shapiro , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: clefevre@citeweb.net From: Cyrille Lefevre Organization: ACME X-Face: X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL94c (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Doug Barton wrote: [snip] > original proposition of smmsp works fine. And since you won't be using > uid 25 for the first one, how about 65533 for the nullmail user? That's > (uid of nobody) - 1 for those keeping score at home. some systems still have a 60000 max uid limit and in a NFS/NIS environment, this may cause troubles. Cyrille. -- Cyrille Lefevre mailto:clefevre@citeweb.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 16: 4:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3ECF37B403 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 16:04:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id A9EDB14C40; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 01:04:12 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: nate@yogotech.com (Nate Williams) Cc: Greg Lehey , FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/scripts? References: <20011018101828.A88312@wantadilla.lemis.com> <15311.9266.464139.798092@nomad.yogotech.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 19 Oct 2001 01:04:12 +0200 In-Reply-To: <15311.9266.464139.798092@nomad.yogotech.com> Message-ID: Lines: 12 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nate Williams writes: > Most folks will probably not analyze the crashdumps, or they will copy > them off somewhere else so they can free up /var/crash for the next > crashdump, so I'd say stick .gdbinit somewhere else. /usr/src/share/misc or /usr/src/sys/conf might be good choices then. /usr/src/sys/scripts sounds like a good idea, I don't like the idea of creating a new directory just for one teeny little file. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 16:21:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from coffee.q9media.com (coffee.q9media.com [216.94.229.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51A5437B403; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 16:21:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mike@localhost) by coffee.q9media.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9INOGV76688; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 19:24:16 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 19:24:16 -0400 From: Mike Barcroft To: Gregory Neil Shapiro Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Doug Barton , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New sendmail users (was Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned) Message-ID: <20011018192416.A76549@coffee.q9media.com> References: <29611.1003411145@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> <15311.1383.814782.672622@horsey.gshapiro.net> <3BCF1A60.13C78B28@DougBarton.net> <15311.6913.618332.163251@horsey.gshapiro.net> <15311.13269.286373.567737@horsey.gshapiro.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <15311.13269.286373.567737@horsey.gshapiro.net>; from gshapiro@FreeBSD.ORG on Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 12:56:05PM -0700 Organization: The FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Gregory Neil Shapiro writes: > des> If it's used for the submission client, then use UID 587 > > Again, the daemon lists on port 587 and doesn't use that user ID. It's for > the mail submission program (MSP), not mail submission agent (MSA). Also, > I thought that were was unwritten rule that system UIDs were under 100. > > des> call it something else ("submit", for instance, as "submission" would > des> be too long). > > Sigh, I had hoped to leave it as documented in the sendmail docs instead of > having FreeBSD be different than other operating systems. OpenBSD and > Solaris 9 have already adopted smmsp, uid 25. The FreeBSD port also has > been using smmsp. I'm with Gregory on this, there's no need for us to be gratuitously different. For better or worse sendmail is our default MTA, so we should strive to be as compatible as possible with it. Best regards, Mike Barcroft To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 17:13:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rpi.edu (mail.rpi.edu [128.113.22.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F50237B401; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:13:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail.rpi.edu (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f9J0DeV124302; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 20:13:40 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20011018131556.D54066@rand.tgd.net> References: <20011017155854.A43168@nagual.pp.ru> <26334.1003400552@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> <20011018214551.A23964@ns2.freenix.org> <20011018131556.D54066@rand.tgd.net> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 20:13:36 -0400 To: Sean Chittenden From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: UID proposal for ports (apache, postfix, squid, postgres)... Cc: ports@FreeBSD.org, arch@FreeBSD.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I don't wish to be annoying here, but this is a topic for -arch (and probably -ports), and not -developer. I have thus copied the full message, and referenced -arch instead of -developer. At 1:15 PM -0700 10/18/01, Sean Chittenden wrote: > > > Hold on a second. What files does Apache _write_ as user nobody? >> >> Log files for instance. > >Log files are written as root. > >I think the real issue is whether or not the Apache port should create >the www uid, or whether or not the UID should be included in the base >system. For the sake of consistency across installations, I really like >the idea of having the UID in the base system (along with postfix, >squid, cvsup, cvsupin, etc). For installations with lots of machines, >this'd be a dream come true. For smaller installations, however, I >don't think they'd care or notice. My personal preference is to have >everything in the base system and then let applications use the >standardized UIDs. While it's nice that a port can create a UID, I like >keeping UIDs aligned across multiple servers. > > > >How about this (best of both worlds): > >The port (Apache, postfix, squid, etc) creates their necessary UID/GIDs >using reserved ID numbers that are hard coded (ex: apache == www == 80). >The advantage to a system like this would be that there wouldn't be >excessive or unneeded UIDs on a system, but when it comes to installing >a service on many machines, it has a standardized UID that's consistent >across the various servers. The accountancy for keeping track of the >reserved UIDs would be a simple services-esque flat file kept in CVS >that would associate UIDs with usernames and in the comments field, the >application. Comments/suggestions? > > -sc > >-- >Sean Chittenden To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 17:47:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61D5137B405 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:47:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id A57146AB15; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:17:23 +0930 (CST) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:17:22 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Nate Williams Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/scripts? Message-ID: <20011019101722.C60412@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20011018101828.A88312@wantadilla.lemis.com> <15311.9266.464139.798092@nomad.yogotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <15311.9266.464139.798092@nomad.yogotech.com>; from nate@yogotech.com on Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 12:49:22PM -0600 Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 18 October 2001 at 12:49:22 -0600, Nate Williams wrote: >>> BSD/OS has a directory /usr/src/sys/scripts which contains macros for >>> kernel debugging. I have a number of macros here that I've >>> accumulated over time, and I'd like to commit them. I'd also like to >>> modify config(8) to install a .gdbinit in the kernel build directory >>> if debugging has been specified; the .gdbinit would load macros from >>> ../../scripts in order to help with kernel debugging. >> >> Wouldn't /var/crash be the logical place for .gdbinit? > > Yes, and no. Yes because that's where it may be useful, and no because > it's a place for crashdumps, not for analyzing crashdumps. I've been thinking about this, and I think I agree with DES. We have a basic problem that there are two different ways to use gdb, for crash dumps and for remote serial debugging. The .gdbinit you use is different in each case. I think it would make sense to install a serial debug .gdbinit in the kernel build directory, and a dump analysis .gdbinit in /var/crash (if present). > Most folks will probably not analyze the crashdumps, or they will copy > them off somewhere else so they can free up /var/crash for the next > crashdump, so I'd say stick .gdbinit somewhere else. If you can move the dump, you can move the .gdbinit. At least /var/crash is a standard place to look for it. I think it makes sense, though I'm not clear about when to move it there. Maybe savecore can do it if it's not already there. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 17:47:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDA5537B403; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:47:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id D62906AB08; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:17:51 +0930 (CST) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:17:51 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: John Baldwin Cc: Nate Williams , FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.ORG, Dag-Erling Smorgrav Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/scripts? Message-ID: <20011019101751.D60412@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <15311.9266.464139.798092@nomad.yogotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from jhb@FreeBSD.org on Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 02:33:27PM -0700 Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 18 October 2001 at 14:33:27 -0700, John Baldwin wrote: > > On 18-Oct-01 Nate Williams wrote: >>>> BSD/OS has a directory /usr/src/sys/scripts which contains macros for >>>> kernel debugging. I have a number of macros here that I've >>>> accumulated over time, and I'd like to commit them. I'd also like to >>>> modify config(8) to install a .gdbinit in the kernel build directory >>>> if debugging has been specified; the .gdbinit would load macros from >>>> ../../scripts in order to help with kernel debugging. >>> >>> Wouldn't /var/crash be the logical place for .gdbinit? >> >> Yes, and no. Yes because that's where it may be useful, and no because >> it's a place for crashdumps, not for analyzing crashdumps. >> >> Most folks will probably not analyze the crashdumps, or they will copy >> them off somewhere else so they can free up /var/crash for the next >> crashdump, so I'd say stick .gdbinit somewhere else. > > I actually put .gdbinit* in my home directory and run gdb from the compile dir > like so: > > cd /some/src/tree/sys/${ARCH}/compile/FOO > gdb -k kernel.debug /var/crash/vmcore.XX But that's because you never debug userland programs :-) Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 17:49:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E330B37B408 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:49:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 2FA616AB08; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:19:48 +0930 (CST) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:19:47 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Nate Williams , FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/scripts? Message-ID: <20011019101946.E60412@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20011018101828.A88312@wantadilla.lemis.com> <15311.9266.464139.798092@nomad.yogotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from des@ofug.org on Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 01:04:12AM +0200 Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Friday, 19 October 2001 at 1:04:12 +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Nate Williams writes: >> Most folks will probably not analyze the crashdumps, or they will copy >> them off somewhere else so they can free up /var/crash for the next >> crashdump, so I'd say stick .gdbinit somewhere else. > > /usr/src/share/misc or /usr/src/sys/conf might be good choices then. > /usr/src/sys/scripts sounds like a good idea, I don't like the idea of > creating a new directory just for one teeny little file. No, there are a number of files in there, and I expect more to arrive. I'm prepared to discuss the point, though. /sys/scripts has the advantage that it's compatible with BSD/OS, which I don't suppose we have to over-emphasize. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 17:50:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns.yogotech.com (ns.yogotech.com [206.127.123.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCEC137B40C; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:50:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nomad.yogotech.com (nomad.yogotech.com [206.127.123.131]) by ns.yogotech.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19796; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 18:50:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@nomad.yogotech.com) Received: (from nate@localhost) by nomad.yogotech.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA01709; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 18:50:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate) From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15311.30927.305794.574364@nomad.yogotech.com> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 18:50:23 -0600 To: Greg Lehey Cc: Nate Williams , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/scripts? In-Reply-To: <20011019101722.C60412@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20011018101828.A88312@wantadilla.lemis.com> <15311.9266.464139.798092@nomad.yogotech.com> <20011019101722.C60412@wantadilla.lemis.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.95 under 21.1 (patch 12) "Channel Islands" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: nate@yogotech.com (Nate Williams) Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >>> BSD/OS has a directory /usr/src/sys/scripts which contains macros for > >>> kernel debugging. I have a number of macros here that I've > >>> accumulated over time, and I'd like to commit them. I'd also like to > >>> modify config(8) to install a .gdbinit in the kernel build directory > >>> if debugging has been specified; the .gdbinit would load macros from > >>> ../../scripts in order to help with kernel debugging. > >> > >> Wouldn't /var/crash be the logical place for .gdbinit? > > > > Yes, and no. Yes because that's where it may be useful, and no because > > it's a place for crashdumps, not for analyzing crashdumps. > > I've been thinking about this, and I think I agree with DES. We have > a basic problem that there are two different ways to use gdb, for > crash dumps and for remote serial debugging. The .gdbinit you use is > different in each case. I think it would make sense to install a > serial debug .gdbinit in the kernel build directory, and a dump > analysis .gdbinit in /var/crash (if present). > > > Most folks will probably not analyze the crashdumps, or they will copy > > them off somewhere else so they can free up /var/crash for the next > > crashdump, so I'd say stick .gdbinit somewhere else. > > If you can move the dump, you can move the .gdbinit. At least > /var/crash is a standard place to look for it. Only if we make it a standard place. A better place would be /sys/scripts/gdbinit.crash. > I think it makes > sense, though I'm not clear about when to move it there. Maybe > savecore can do it if it's not already there. It has nothing to do with crashdumps themselves, but it has everything to do with debugging crashdumps. Just because there is a casual relationship doesn't mean it's the best place for the file. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 17:54:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29B1737B403; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 73F5C14C2E; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 02:54:12 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Greg Lehey Cc: Nate Williams , FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/scripts? References: <20011018101828.A88312@wantadilla.lemis.com> <15311.9266.464139.798092@nomad.yogotech.com> <20011019101946.E60412@wantadilla.lemis.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 19 Oct 2001 02:54:12 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20011019101946.E60412@wantadilla.lemis.com> Message-ID: Lines: 13 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey writes: > On Friday, 19 October 2001 at 1:04:12 +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > /usr/src/share/misc or /usr/src/sys/conf might be good choices then. > > /usr/src/sys/scripts sounds like a good idea, I don't like the idea of > > creating a new directory just for one teeny little file. > No, there are a number of files in there, and I expect more to > arrive. Well, then, go for it. I have no further objections. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 17:54:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2DF037B403 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id AD9096AB15; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:24:26 +0930 (CST) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:24:26 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Nate Williams Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/scripts? Message-ID: <20011019102425.G60412@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20011018101828.A88312@wantadilla.lemis.com> <15311.9266.464139.798092@nomad.yogotech.com> <20011019101722.C60412@wantadilla.lemis.com> <15311.30927.305794.574364@nomad.yogotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <15311.30927.305794.574364@nomad.yogotech.com>; from nate@yogotech.com on Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 06:50:23PM -0600 Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 18 October 2001 at 18:50:23 -0600, Nate Williams wrote: >>>>> BSD/OS has a directory /usr/src/sys/scripts which contains macros for >>>>> kernel debugging. I have a number of macros here that I've >>>>> accumulated over time, and I'd like to commit them. I'd also like to >>>>> modify config(8) to install a .gdbinit in the kernel build directory >>>>> if debugging has been specified; the .gdbinit would load macros from >>>>> ../../scripts in order to help with kernel debugging. >>>> >>>> Wouldn't /var/crash be the logical place for .gdbinit? >>> >>> Yes, and no. Yes because that's where it may be useful, and no because >>> it's a place for crashdumps, not for analyzing crashdumps. >> >> I've been thinking about this, and I think I agree with DES. We have >> a basic problem that there are two different ways to use gdb, for >> crash dumps and for remote serial debugging. The .gdbinit you use is >> different in each case. I think it would make sense to install a >> serial debug .gdbinit in the kernel build directory, and a dump >> analysis .gdbinit in /var/crash (if present). >> >>> Most folks will probably not analyze the crashdumps, or they will copy >>> them off somewhere else so they can free up /var/crash for the next >>> crashdump, so I'd say stick .gdbinit somewhere else. >> >> If you can move the dump, you can move the .gdbinit. At least >> /var/crash is a standard place to look for it. > > Only if we make it a standard place. A better place would be > /sys/scripts/gdbinit.crash. Why? That's not obvious to somebody analyzing the dump in /var/crash. One more thing to look for, one more pathname to remember. >> I think it makes sense, though I'm not clear about when to move it >> there. Maybe savecore can do it if it's not already there. > > It has nothing to do with crashdumps themselves, but it has everything > to do with debugging crashdumps. Just because there is a casual > relationship doesn't mean it's the best place for the file. That statement applies to the saved kernel file as well. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 17:59:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns.yogotech.com (ns.yogotech.com [206.127.123.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9624F37B407; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:59:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nomad.yogotech.com (nomad.yogotech.com [206.127.123.131]) by ns.yogotech.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20164; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 18:59:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@nomad.yogotech.com) Received: (from nate@localhost) by nomad.yogotech.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA01756; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 18:59:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate) From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15311.31477.44659.191811@nomad.yogotech.com> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 18:59:33 -0600 To: Greg Lehey Cc: Nate Williams , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/scripts? In-Reply-To: <20011019102425.G60412@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20011018101828.A88312@wantadilla.lemis.com> <15311.9266.464139.798092@nomad.yogotech.com> <20011019101722.C60412@wantadilla.lemis.com> <15311.30927.305794.574364@nomad.yogotech.com> <20011019102425.G60412@wantadilla.lemis.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.95 under 21.1 (patch 12) "Channel Islands" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: nate@yogotech.com (Nate Williams) Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >>>>> BSD/OS has a directory /usr/src/sys/scripts which contains macros for > >>>>> kernel debugging. I have a number of macros here that I've > >>>>> accumulated over time, and I'd like to commit them. I'd also like to > >>>>> modify config(8) to install a .gdbinit in the kernel build directory > >>>>> if debugging has been specified; the .gdbinit would load macros from > >>>>> ../../scripts in order to help with kernel debugging. > >>>> > >>>> Wouldn't /var/crash be the logical place for .gdbinit? > >>> > >>> Yes, and no. Yes because that's where it may be useful, and no because > >>> it's a place for crashdumps, not for analyzing crashdumps. > >> > >> I've been thinking about this, and I think I agree with DES. We have > >> a basic problem that there are two different ways to use gdb, for > >> crash dumps and for remote serial debugging. The .gdbinit you use is > >> different in each case. I think it would make sense to install a > >> serial debug .gdbinit in the kernel build directory, and a dump > >> analysis .gdbinit in /var/crash (if present). > >> > >>> Most folks will probably not analyze the crashdumps, or they will copy > >>> them off somewhere else so they can free up /var/crash for the next > >>> crashdump, so I'd say stick .gdbinit somewhere else. > >> > >> If you can move the dump, you can move the .gdbinit. At least > >> /var/crash is a standard place to look for it. > > > > Only if we make it a standard place. A better place would be > > /sys/scripts/gdbinit.crash. > > Why? That's not obvious to somebody analyzing the dump in /var/crash. > One more thing to look for, one more pathname to remember. The people debugging crash dumps can certainly remember the name of a file as easily as they can remember the commands to type in gdb. This is a specious argument. (And, we can easily document it in the same place we document how to get backtraces in the kernel.) For 95% of the users, they have no need for .gdbinit, but the folks that may have use for it would be the same folks who have a use for a .gdbinit for debugging kernels over serial consoles, over the network (Jonathan Lemon's is working on this), and for looking at different data structures. In other words, there is no 'One True' .gdbinit, so we can provide the users with a plethora of choices to use, depending on the type of error they are seeing. :) > >> I think it makes sense, though I'm not clear about when to move it > >> there. Maybe savecore can do it if it's not already there. > > > > It has nothing to do with crashdumps themselves, but it has everything > > to do with debugging crashdumps. Just because there is a casual > > relationship doesn't mean it's the best place for the file. > > That statement applies to the saved kernel file as well. /var/crash is necessary to save since there's no other place to save it that guarantees a one-to-one mapping for dumps. If you replace your /kernel, then there's no way for the person debugging the file to be able to get to it. '.gdbinit' is common for *all* kernels, otherwise it would have no use. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 19:46:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from wensleydale.netmonger.net (wensleydale.netmonger.net [167.206.208.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0F4037B405; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 19:46:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dna.masto.com (ool-18b9169a.dyn.optonline.net [24.185.22.154]) (AUTH: LOGIN chris@retardix.com, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,168bits,DES-CBC3-SHA) by wensleydale.netmonger.net with esmtp; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 22:46:48 -0400 Received: (from chris@localhost) by dna.masto.com (8.11.5/8.11.4) id f9J2kib01497; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 22:46:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from chris@masto.com) X-Authentication-Warning: dna.masto.com: chris set sender to chris@masto.com using -f Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/etc group master.passwd From: Christopher Masto To: arch@FreeBSD.org Cc: John Baldwin , "Andrey A. Chernov" , Christopher Masto , Mike Barcroft In-Reply-To: <20011018112023.A20348@dragon.nuxi.com> References: <20011018211949.B68031@nagual.pp.ru> <20011018112023.A20348@dragon.nuxi.com> X-Mailer: Evolution/0.15 (Preview Release) Date: 19 Oct 2001 07:46:44 +0500 Message-Id: <1003459604.1462.5.camel@dna.masto.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 2001-10-18 at 15:20, David O'Brien wrote: > Those people probably do not mergemaster their master.passwd. Thus > adding www==80 to the stock sources does not really create a problem for > existing systems (you are now probably going to mention YP). Web server > ports can check for the existence of a `www' user and add it if not > there -- again not causing a problem for existing installations. Over > time the stock user `www' will be in use everywhere and this will be a > non-issue. This is what I don't understand. If the port is going to check for the missing user and create it, why put it in the base system? Basically, the existing mechanism means that everyone who wants Apache gets the www user - for some reason, you want to extend this to include also people who don't want Apache. It doesn't make any sense to me. If the port has the facility to create it on the fly, that sounds like a much better solution. It also extends to all ports that need special users. Certainly putting such things as mysql and pgsql in the base system's master.passwd would be unacceptable to most people. P.S. I maintain a lot of FreeBSD web servers, and I create an "apache" user/group when I set them up. I also don't use the port, so to me this extra thing in the passwd file is a waste. -- "Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say, What should be the reward of such sacrifices? ... If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animating contest of freedom -- go from us in peace. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you." -- Samuel Adams, 1776 CB461C61 8AFC E3A8 7CE5 9023 B35D C26A D849 1F6E CB46 1C61 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 19:58:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from peter3.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [24.14.150.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1546237B405 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 19:58:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from overcee.netplex.com.au (overcee.wemm.org [10.0.0.3]) by peter3.wemm.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9J2wTM13664 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 19:58:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.netplex.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id B18163803; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 19:58:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Greg Lehey Cc: FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/scripts? In-Reply-To: <20011018101828.A88312@wantadilla.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 19:58:29 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20011019025829.B18163803@overcee.netplex.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > BSD/OS has a directory /usr/src/sys/scripts which contains macros for > kernel debugging. I have a number of macros here that I've > accumulated over time, and I'd like to commit them. I'd also like to > modify config(8) to install a .gdbinit in the kernel build directory > if debugging has been specified; the .gdbinit would load macros from > ../../scripts in order to help with kernel debugging. Just add a Makefile.* rule to add a ln -s from .gdbinit to $S/../../scripts/.gdbinit. No need to add more config(8) hacks. Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 20: 9:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail-green.research.att.com (H-135-207-30-103.research.att.com [135.207.30.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E81C37B403; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 20:09:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alliance.research.att.com (alliance.research.att.com [135.207.26.26]) by mail-green.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78D9E1E048; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 23:09:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from windsor.research.att.com (windsor.research.att.com [135.207.26.46]) by alliance.research.att.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA09907; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 23:09:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fenner Received: (from fenner@localhost) by windsor.research.att.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.5) id UAA13215; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 20:09:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200110190309.UAA13215@windsor.research.att.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII To: sean@chittenden.org Subject: Re: UID proposal for ports (apache, postfix, squid, postgres)... Cc: ache@nagual.pp.ru, ports@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org References: <20011017155854.A43168@nagual.pp.ru> <26334.1003400552@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> <20011018214551.A23964@ns2.freenix.org> <20011018131556.D54066@rand.tgd.net> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 20:09:07 -0700 Versions: dmail (solaris) 2.2j/makemail 2.9b Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >The port (Apache, postfix, squid, etc) creates their necessary UID/GIDs >using reserved ID numbers that are hard coded (ex: apache == www == 80). Isn't this how it works [or, at least, is documented to work] now? (e.g. see section 15.15 of the porter's handbook.) Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 20:10:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from cs.utep.edu (mail.cs.utep.edu [129.108.5.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4F0737B405 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 20:10:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gecko (gecko [129.108.5.51]) by cs.utep.edu (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f9J3A4g22147; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 21:10:04 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 21:10:03 -0600 (MDT) From: X-Sender: To: Peter Wemm Cc: Greg Lehey , Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/scripts? In-Reply-To: <20011019025829.B18163803@overcee.netplex.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, once Jo has got the build back working, you can take care of some of those compiler warnings we now have several hundreds of... JAn On Thu, 18 Oct 2001, Peter Wemm wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: > > BSD/OS has a directory /usr/src/sys/scripts which contains macros for > > kernel debugging. I have a number of macros here that I've > > accumulated over time, and I'd like to commit them. I'd also like to > > modify config(8) to install a .gdbinit in the kernel build directory > > if debugging has been specified; the .gdbinit would load macros from > > ../../scripts in order to help with kernel debugging. > > Just add a Makefile.* rule to add a ln -s from .gdbinit to > $S/../../scripts/.gdbinit. No need to add more config(8) hacks. > > Cheers, > -Peter > -- > Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au > "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 20:11:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from cs.utep.edu (mail.cs.utep.edu [129.108.5.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2339B37B403 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 20:11:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gecko (gecko [129.108.5.51]) by cs.utep.edu (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f9J3AlW22155; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 21:10:47 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 21:10:47 -0600 (MDT) From: X-Sender: To: Peter Wemm Cc: Greg Lehey , Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/scripts? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sorry, replied to the wrong message ... JAn On Thu, 18 Oct 2001 janb@cs.utep.edu wrote: > Well, once Jo has got the build back working, you can take care of some of > those compiler warnings we now have several hundreds of... > > JAn > > On Thu, 18 Oct 2001, Peter Wemm wrote: > > > Greg Lehey wrote: > > > BSD/OS has a directory /usr/src/sys/scripts which contains macros for > > > kernel debugging. I have a number of macros here that I've > > > accumulated over time, and I'd like to commit them. I'd also like to > > > modify config(8) to install a .gdbinit in the kernel build directory > > > if debugging has been specified; the .gdbinit would load macros from > > > ../../scripts in order to help with kernel debugging. > > > > Just add a Makefile.* rule to add a ln -s from .gdbinit to > > $S/../../scripts/.gdbinit. No need to add more config(8) hacks. > > > > Cheers, > > -Peter > > -- > > Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au > > "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 20:19:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EA9B37B403 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 20:19:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 41BCC6AB08; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:49:27 +0930 (CST) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:49:27 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Peter Wemm Cc: FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/scripts? Message-ID: <20011019124926.Q60412@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20011018101828.A88312@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20011019025829.B18163803@overcee.netplex.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20011019025829.B18163803@overcee.netplex.com.au>; from peter@wemm.org on Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 07:58:29PM -0700 Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 18 October 2001 at 19:58:29 -0700, Peter Wemm wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: >> BSD/OS has a directory /usr/src/sys/scripts which contains macros for >> kernel debugging. I have a number of macros here that I've >> accumulated over time, and I'd like to commit them. I'd also like to >> modify config(8) to install a .gdbinit in the kernel build directory >> if debugging has been specified; the .gdbinit would load macros from >> ../../scripts in order to help with kernel debugging. > > Just add a Makefile.* rule to add a ln -s from .gdbinit to > $S/../../scripts/.gdbinit. No need to add more config(8) hacks. Well, cp, not ln, and certainly not ln -s. You'll sometimes need to change things, like the serial port number. And yes, that occurred to me as well, and I agree it's the easiest way. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Oct 18 21:49:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail.tgd.net (rand.tgd.net [64.81.67.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 809B937B401 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 21:49:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 57709 invoked by uid 1001); 19 Oct 2001 04:49:49 -0000 Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 21:49:49 -0700 From: Sean Chittenden To: Bill Fenner Cc: ache@nagual.pp.ru, arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: UID proposal for ports (apache, postfix, squid, postgres)... Message-ID: <20011018214949.A53604@rand.tgd.net> References: <20011017155854.A43168@nagual.pp.ru> <26334.1003400552@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> <20011018214551.A23964@ns2.freenix.org> <20011018131556.D54066@rand.tgd.net> <200110190309.UAA13215@windsor.research.att.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200110190309.UAA13215@windsor.research.att.com>; from "fenner@research.att.com" on Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at = 08:09:07PM X-PGP-Key: 0x1EDDFAAD X-PGP-Fingerprint: C665 A17F 9A56 286C 5CFB 1DEA 9F4F 5CEF 1EDD FAAD X-Web-Homepage: http://sean.chittenden.org/ Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >The port (Apache, postfix, squid, etc) creates their necessary UID/GIDs > >using reserved ID numbers that are hard coded (ex: apache == www == 80). > > Isn't this how it works [or, at least, is documented to work] now? > (e.g. see section 15.15 of the porter's handbook.) Perfect! Thanks Bill, this is exactly what I was suggesting... why can't apache conform to this? Have the UID added at install time according to this page. I really think everyone would be happy if they conformed to the following. http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/porters-handbook/x1960.html I'm off to go and submit a few PRs to have this fixed in a few apps that I know aren't following this rule. What's the UID range for system apps? Less than 500? 100 seems a little low. -sc -- Sean Chittenden To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Oct 19 2: 0:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mailgate.originative.co.uk (mailgate.originative.co.uk [62.232.68.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AE1137B407; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 02:00:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lobster.originative.co.uk (lobster [62.232.68.81]) by mailgate.originative.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id B13191D169; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:59:59 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:59:59 +0100 From: Paul Richards To: Greg Lehey , Nate Williams Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/scripts? Message-ID: <20670000.1003481999@lobster.originative.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <20011019102425.G60412@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20011018101828.A88312@wantadilla.lemis.com> <15311.9266.464139.798092@nomad.yogotech.com> <20011019101722.C60412@wantadilla.lemis.com> <15311.30927.305794.574364@nomad.yogotech.com> <20011019102425.G60412@wantadilla.lemis.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/2.1.0 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --On Friday, October 19, 2001 10:24:26 +0930 Greg Lehey wrote: > On Thursday, 18 October 2001 at 18:50:23 -0600, Nate Williams wrote: >>>>>> BSD/OS has a directory /usr/src/sys/scripts which contains macros for >>>>>> kernel debugging. I have a number of macros here that I've >>>>>> accumulated over time, and I'd like to commit them. I'd also like to >>>>>> modify config(8) to install a .gdbinit in the kernel build directory >>>>>> if debugging has been specified; the .gdbinit would load macros from >>>>>> ../../scripts in order to help with kernel debugging. >>>>> >>>>> Wouldn't /var/crash be the logical place for .gdbinit? >>>> >>>> Yes, and no. Yes because that's where it may be useful, and no because >>>> it's a place for crashdumps, not for analyzing crashdumps. >>> >>> I've been thinking about this, and I think I agree with DES. We have >>> a basic problem that there are two different ways to use gdb, for >>> crash dumps and for remote serial debugging. The .gdbinit you use is >>> different in each case. I think it would make sense to install a >>> serial debug .gdbinit in the kernel build directory, and a dump >>> analysis .gdbinit in /var/crash (if present). >>> >>>> Most folks will probably not analyze the crashdumps, or they will copy >>>> them off somewhere else so they can free up /var/crash for the next >>>> crashdump, so I'd say stick .gdbinit somewhere else. >>> >>> If you can move the dump, you can move the .gdbinit. At least >>> /var/crash is a standard place to look for it. >> >> Only if we make it a standard place. A better place would be >> /sys/scripts/gdbinit.crash. > > Why? That's not obvious to somebody analyzing the dump in /var/crash. > One more thing to look for, one more pathname to remember. My preference would /usr/share/scripts/gdb. I'd rather have all the gdb scripts in one place a) so it's easier to remember where they all are b) it's easier to browse them together when you want to have a need to. Paul Richards FreeBSD Services Ltd http://www.freebsd-services.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Oct 19 2: 7:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from dire.bris.ac.uk (dire.bris.ac.uk [137.222.10.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E7BF37B405 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 02:07:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.ilrt.bris.ac.uk by dire.bris.ac.uk with SMTP-PRIV with ESMTP; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:06:59 +0100 Received: from cmjg (helo=localhost) by mail.ilrt.bris.ac.uk with local-esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 15uVbp-0001w8-00; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:06:29 +0100 Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:06:29 +0100 (BST) From: Jan Grant X-X-Sender: To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Will Andrews , arch Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 19 Oct 2001, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Will Andrews writes: > > On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 11:38:28PM +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > > What pidfile is /etc/rc.d/ipfilter going to leave behind? Part of the > > > sequence for starting ipfilter is "ipf -E -Fa", so you defintely do > > > *not* want to run it by accident. > > Well, obviously there will be some different interpretations of > > the "start", "stop", "restart", etc. arguments. But everything > > that starts a daemon should have a corresponding pidfile. > > My point is that the service you want to start may depend on another > service that just configures something, but doesn't start a daemon > (ipfilter is an example), so you can't always just check the pidfile > to see if a service has ben started. Also, the presence of a pidfile > does not necessarily mean the process is actually running (rc.subr is > smart enough to check if the PID listed in the pidfile exists, but > that's no guarantee either). How 'bout /etc/rc.d/blah status to give you the answer? You can supply a default implementation (eg, check PID file, etc) and override this in the cases you have to. Other stuff: status, start, stop, etc. I'd like to see prebackup postbackup prerestore postrestore too. But wouldn't we all? -- jan grant, ILRT, University of Bristol. http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/ Tel +44(0)117 9287088 Fax +44 (0)117 9287112 RFC822 jan.grant@bris.ac.uk Unfortunately, I have a very good idea how fast my keys are moving. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Oct 19 2:41:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (pc-62-31-42-140-hy.blueyonder.co.uk [62.31.42.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAEB337B405; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 02:41:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f9J9Hoj21018; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:17:50 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:17:50 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Paul Richards Cc: Greg Lehey , Nate Williams , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/scripts? Message-ID: <20011019101750.T88453@clan.nothing-going-on.org> References: <20011018101828.A88312@wantadilla.lemis.com> <15311.9266.464139.798092@nomad.yogotech.com> <20011019101722.C60412@wantadilla.lemis.com> <15311.30927.305794.574364@nomad.yogotech.com> <20011019102425.G60412@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20670000.1003481999@lobster.originative.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="7quVE/NlH+cK1xMR" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20670000.1003481999@lobster.originative.co.uk>; from paul@freebsd-services.com on Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 09:59:59AM +0100 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --7quVE/NlH+cK1xMR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 09:59:59AM +0100, Paul Richards wrote: > > Why? That's not obvious to somebody analyzing the dump in /var/crash. > > One more thing to look for, one more pathname to remember. >=20 > My preference would /usr/share/scripts/gdb. /usr/share/examples/gdb would follow existing practice. N --=20 FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://www.freebsd.org/ FreeBSD Documentation Project http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/ --- 15B8 3FFC DDB4 34B0 AA5F 94B7 93A8 0764 2C37 E375 --- --7quVE/NlH+cK1xMR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjvP770ACgkQk6gHZCw343VZWgCgiRp9XumSUAoUg986ibn8NSah wMMAniido2VDsl4ImE9FOaMijZ0Tywoh =xwIB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --7quVE/NlH+cK1xMR-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Oct 19 2:53:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mailgate.originative.co.uk (mailgate.originative.co.uk [62.232.68.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44B2F37B401; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 02:53:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lobster.originative.co.uk (lobster [62.232.68.81]) by mailgate.originative.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 284941D169; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:53:13 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:53:13 +0100 From: Paul Richards To: Nik Clayton Cc: Greg Lehey , Nate Williams , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/scripts? Message-ID: <2480000.1003485193@lobster.originative.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <20011019101750.T88453@clan.nothing-going-on.org> References: <20011018101828.A88312@wantadilla.lemis.com> <15311.9266.464139.798092@nomad.yogotech.com> <20011019101722.C60412@wantadilla.lemis.com> <15311.30927.305794.574364@nomad.yogotech.com> <20011019102425.G60412@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20670000.1003481999@lobster.originative.co.uk> <20011019101750.T88453@clan.nothing-going-on.org> X-Mailer: Mulberry/2.1.0 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --On Friday, October 19, 2001 10:17:50 +0100 Nik Clayton wrote: > On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 09:59:59AM +0100, Paul Richards wrote: >> > Why? That's not obvious to somebody analyzing the dump in /var/crash. >> > One more thing to look for, one more pathname to remember. >> >> My preference would /usr/share/scripts/gdb. > > /usr/share/examples/gdb would follow existing practice. I'm not so sure, /usr/share/examples is for "examples", most of those files are templates that you install somewhere else after tweaking them for local use. Paul Richards FreeBSD Services Ltd http://www.freebsd-services.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Oct 19 3: 5:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27EA337B403 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 03:05:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 2A61414C2E; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:05:17 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Jan Grant Cc: Will Andrews , arch Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 19 Oct 2001 12:05:16 +0200 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lines: 10 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jan Grant writes: > How 'bout > /etc/rc.d/blah status > to give you the answer? Please read /usr/src/etc/rc.subr. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Oct 19 4:12:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BEC937B401; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 04:12:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [62.49.251.130] (helo=herring.nlsystems.com) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15uXZj-000Ntm-0A; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 11:12:27 +0000 Received: from herring (herring [10.0.0.2]) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f9JBBB786747; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:11:11 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:11:11 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: John Baldwin , , , Gordon Tetlow Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 18 Oct 2001, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > John Baldwin writes: > > Huh? Int on alpha is 32, and pointer is 64. > > I thought we were ILP64 on 64-bit archs, but you're right. And I > ought to know better... Fortunately (?) it doesn't matter in this case. Function arguments which are passed in registers are all promoted to 64bits. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Phone: +44 20 8348 6160 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Oct 19 5:26:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail.switch.aust.com (ppp63.adsl238.pacific.net.au [203.143.238.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4322237B405 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 05:26:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.switch.aust.com (IDENT:root@ras.wa [10.0.1.140]) by mail.switch.aust.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26966 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 22:26:48 +1000 X-Authentication-Warning: server1.ussbris: Host IDENT:root@ras.wa [10.0.1.140] claimed to be smtp2.switch.aust.com Received: from freebsd06.udt (nelsont@freebsd06.udt [10.0.2.56]) by smtp2.switch.aust.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f9JCidw08589 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 20:44:40 +0800 Received: by freebsd06.udt (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 19 Oct 2001 20:19:19 +0800 Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 20:19:19 +0800 From: Trent Nelson To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Proposal: kernel/module debugging support improvements. Message-ID: <20011019201919.L23852@freebsd06.udt> Mail-Followup-To: Trent Nelson , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There's currently a deficiency in our build process that prevents you from *preventing* the installation of stripped kernel modules when DEBUG has been defined. In sys/conf/kmod.mk: .if !defined(DEBUG) FULLPROG= ${PROG} .else FULLPROG= ${PROG}.debug ${PROG}: ${FULLPROG} ${OBJCOPY} --strip-debug ${FULLPROG} ${PROG} .endif I'd like to have the capability of stipulating that I specifically *DON'T* want to strip debugging symbols from my kernel modules before they're installed. One of the main reasons I'd want to do something like this is to easily facilitate debugging of kernel modules through say, remote gdb, when access to the modules with debugging symbols may not be readily available. It's obvious that there's going to be people on the other side of the fence who want to have kernel modules with debugging information available if need be -- but want the stripped objects in /boot/kernel. So, a solution needs to cater for both parties. There's a few options of achieving this functionality, so I'd like to hear peoples' comments. 1. Introducing an ``install.debug'' target to sys/conf/kmod.mk. Advantages of this is it is consistent with the ``install.debug'' target already present in the kernel Makefile. If this approach is to be used -- it's worthwhile to have these present in /usr/src/Makefile.inc1 also. 2. Introducing ``KERNEL_STRIP'' & ``MODULE_STRIP'' variables. This would be consistent with the ``STRIP'' variable used in the userland build process. Doing it this way has the disadvantage of introducing two variables whose semantics derive implicitly upon whether or not DEBUG is set. Comments? Regards, Trent. -- Trent Nelson - Software Engineer - nelsont@switch.aust.com "A man with unlimited enthusiasm can achieve almost anything." --unknown To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Oct 19 5:38:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82C6137B405 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 05:38:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id AEF1514C2E; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 14:38:23 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Trent Nelson Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Proposal: kernel/module debugging support improvements. References: <20011019201919.L23852@freebsd06.udt> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 19 Oct 2001 14:38:23 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20011019201919.L23852@freebsd06.udt> Message-ID: Lines: 42 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --=-=-= Trent Nelson writes: > 1. Introducing an ``install.debug'' target to sys/conf/kmod.mk. > > Advantages of this is it is consistent with the ``install.debug'' > target already present in the kernel Makefile. If this approach > is to be used -- it's worthwhile to have these present in > /usr/src/Makefile.inc1 also. The install.debug just installs debugging versions alongside the regular ones (not instead of), but it's "good enough for government work" if you can afford the space on your root fs (if you can't, use MODULES_OVERRIDE to limit the number of modules that actually get built and installed). I've attached a (lightly tested) patch that adds an install.debug target to kmod.mk and makes the kernel Makefile's install.debug and reinstall.debug targets invoke it. The only part of the patch I don't like is having to mess with bsd.subdir.mk, but I don't see any way around it that isn't *more* of an ugly hack. One could also add an 'installkernel.debug' target to Makefile.inc1, but I chose not to do so at this point. > 2. Introducing ``KERNEL_STRIP'' & ``MODULE_STRIP'' variables. > > This would be consistent with the ``STRIP'' variable used in the > userland build process. Doing it this way has the disadvantage > of introducing two variables whose semantics derive implicitly > upon whether or not DEBUG is set. I'm tempted to suggest that we *always* build the kernel and modules *with* debugging symbols, and just strip them off at installation time if we don't want them. This will have the considerable advantage that people who experience a difficult-to-reproduce kernel panic but didn't configure their kernel with -g will still be able to debug the panic as long as they've kept their kernel build directory around. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-patch Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=kmod.diff Index: share/mk/bsd.subdir.mk =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/share/mk/bsd.subdir.mk,v retrieving revision 1.31 diff -u -r1.31 bsd.subdir.mk --- share/mk/bsd.subdir.mk 27 Mar 2001 08:43:28 -0000 1.31 +++ share/mk/bsd.subdir.mk 19 Oct 2001 11:59:59 -0000 @@ -88,7 +88,8 @@ .for __target in all all-man checkdpadd clean cleandepend cleandir depend lint \ - maninstall obj objlink regress tags + maninstall obj objlink regress tags \ + install.debug reinstall.debug .if !target(${__target}) ${__target}: _SUBDIRUSE .endif Index: sys/conf/kmod.mk =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/conf/kmod.mk,v retrieving revision 1.108 diff -u -r1.108 kmod.mk --- sys/conf/kmod.mk 11 Sep 2001 01:13:49 -0000 1.108 +++ sys/conf/kmod.mk 19 Oct 2001 12:35:21 -0000 @@ -212,6 +212,10 @@ _INSTALLFLAGS:= ${_INSTALLFLAGS${ie}} .endfor +install.debug: _SUBDIR + ${INSTALL} ${COPY} -o ${KMODOWN} -g ${KMODGRP} -m ${KMODMODE} \ + ${_INSTALLFLAGS} ${FULLPROG} ${DESTDIR}${KMODDIR}/ + realinstall: _SUBDIR ${INSTALL} ${COPY} -o ${KMODOWN} -g ${KMODGRP} -m ${KMODMODE} \ ${_INSTALLFLAGS} ${PROG} ${DESTDIR}${KMODDIR}/ Index: sys/conf/Makefile.alpha =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/conf/Makefile.alpha,v retrieving revision 1.113 diff -u -r1.113 Makefile.alpha --- sys/conf/Makefile.alpha 17 Oct 2001 18:04:13 -0000 1.113 +++ sys/conf/Makefile.alpha 19 Oct 2001 12:17:29 -0000 @@ -339,11 +339,11 @@ modules-tags: cd $S/modules ; env ${MKMODULESENV} ${MAKE} tags -modules-install modules-install.debug: +modules-install modules-reinstall: cd $S/modules ; env ${MKMODULESENV} ${MAKE} install -modules-reinstall modules-reinstall.debug: - cd $S/modules ; env ${MKMODULESENV} ${MAKE} install +modules-install.debug modules-reinstall.debug: + cd $S/modules ; env ${MKMODULESENV} ${MAKE} install.debug config.o: ${NORMAL_C} Index: sys/conf/Makefile.i386 =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/conf/Makefile.i386,v retrieving revision 1.245 diff -u -r1.245 Makefile.i386 --- sys/conf/Makefile.i386 17 Oct 2001 13:57:32 -0000 1.245 +++ sys/conf/Makefile.i386 19 Oct 2001 12:18:03 -0000 @@ -297,11 +297,11 @@ modules-tags: cd $S/modules ; env ${MKMODULESENV} ${MAKE} tags -modules-install modules-install.debug: +modules-install modules-reinstall: cd $S/modules ; env ${MKMODULESENV} ${MAKE} install -modules-reinstall modules-reinstall.debug: - cd $S/modules ; env ${MKMODULESENV} ${MAKE} install +modules-install.debug modules-reinstall.debug: + cd $S/modules ; env ${MKMODULESENV} ${MAKE} install.debug config.o: ${NORMAL_C} Index: sys/conf/Makefile.ia64 =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/conf/Makefile.ia64,v retrieving revision 1.36 diff -u -r1.36 Makefile.ia64 --- sys/conf/Makefile.ia64 17 Oct 2001 18:04:13 -0000 1.36 +++ sys/conf/Makefile.ia64 19 Oct 2001 12:18:03 -0000 @@ -307,11 +307,11 @@ modules-tags: cd $S/modules ; env ${MKMODULESENV} ${MAKE} tags -modules-install modules-install.debug: +modules-install modules-reinstall: cd $S/modules ; env ${MKMODULESENV} ${MAKE} install -modules-reinstall modules-reinstall.debug: - cd $S/modules ; env ${MKMODULESENV} ${MAKE} install +modules-install.debug modules-reinstall.debug: + cd $S/modules ; env ${MKMODULESENV} ${MAKE} install.debug config.o: ${NORMAL_C} Index: sys/conf/Makefile.pc98 =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/conf/Makefile.pc98,v retrieving revision 1.146 diff -u -r1.146 Makefile.pc98 --- sys/conf/Makefile.pc98 17 Oct 2001 18:04:13 -0000 1.146 +++ sys/conf/Makefile.pc98 19 Oct 2001 12:18:03 -0000 @@ -301,11 +301,11 @@ modules-tags: cd $S/modules ; env ${MKMODULESENV} ${MAKE} tags -modules-install modules-install.debug: +modules-install modules-reinstall: cd $S/modules ; env ${MKMODULESENV} ${MAKE} install -modules-reinstall modules-reinstall.debug: - cd $S/modules ; env ${MKMODULESENV} ${MAKE} install +modules-install.debug modules-reinstall.debug: + cd $S/modules ; env ${MKMODULESENV} ${MAKE} install.debug config.o: ${NORMAL_C} Index: sys/conf/Makefile.powerpc =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/conf/Makefile.powerpc,v retrieving revision 1.251 diff -u -r1.251 Makefile.powerpc --- sys/conf/Makefile.powerpc 19 Oct 2001 00:32:00 -0000 1.251 +++ sys/conf/Makefile.powerpc 19 Oct 2001 12:18:03 -0000 @@ -307,11 +307,11 @@ modules-tags: cd $S/modules ; env ${MKMODULESENV} ${MAKE} tags -modules-install modules-install.debug: +modules-install modules-reinstall: cd $S/modules ; env ${MKMODULESENV} ${MAKE} install -modules-reinstall modules-reinstall.debug: - cd $S/modules ; env ${MKMODULESENV} ${MAKE} install +modules-install.debug modules-reinstall.debug: + cd $S/modules ; env ${MKMODULESENV} ${MAKE} install.debug config.o: ${NORMAL_C} Index: sys/conf/Makefile.sparc64 =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/conf/Makefile.sparc64,v retrieving revision 1.5 diff -u -r1.5 Makefile.sparc64 --- sys/conf/Makefile.sparc64 17 Oct 2001 18:04:13 -0000 1.5 +++ sys/conf/Makefile.sparc64 19 Oct 2001 12:18:03 -0000 @@ -311,11 +311,11 @@ modules-tags: cd $S/modules ; env ${MKMODULESENV} ${MAKE} tags -modules-install modules-install.debug: +modules-install modules-reinstall: cd $S/modules ; env ${MKMODULESENV} ${MAKE} install -modules-reinstall modules-reinstall.debug: - cd $S/modules ; env ${MKMODULESENV} ${MAKE} install +modules-install.debug modules-reinstall.debug: + cd $S/modules ; env ${MKMODULESENV} ${MAKE} install.debug config.o: ${NORMAL_C} --=-=-=-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Oct 19 8:23:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from femail41.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail41.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4496637B409; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 08:23:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx ([24.2.39.156]) by femail41.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011019152340.FJRB5211.femail41.sdc1.sfba.home.com@laptop.baldwin.cx>; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 08:23:40 -0700 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20011019101751.D60412@wantadilla.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 08:23:35 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: Greg Lehey Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/scripts? Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.ORG, Nate Williams Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 19-Oct-01 Greg Lehey wrote: > On Thursday, 18 October 2001 at 14:33:27 -0700, John Baldwin wrote: >> >> On 18-Oct-01 Nate Williams wrote: >>>>> BSD/OS has a directory /usr/src/sys/scripts which contains macros for >>>>> kernel debugging. I have a number of macros here that I've >>>>> accumulated over time, and I'd like to commit them. I'd also like to >>>>> modify config(8) to install a .gdbinit in the kernel build directory >>>>> if debugging has been specified; the .gdbinit would load macros from >>>>> ../../scripts in order to help with kernel debugging. >>>> >>>> Wouldn't /var/crash be the logical place for .gdbinit? >>> >>> Yes, and no. Yes because that's where it may be useful, and no because >>> it's a place for crashdumps, not for analyzing crashdumps. >>> >>> Most folks will probably not analyze the crashdumps, or they will copy >>> them off somewhere else so they can free up /var/crash for the next >>> crashdump, so I'd say stick .gdbinit somewhere else. >> >> I actually put .gdbinit* in my home directory and run gdb from the compile >> dir >> like so: >> >> cd /some/src/tree/sys/${ARCH}/compile/FOO >> gdb -k kernel.debug /var/crash/vmcore.XX > > But that's because you never debug userland programs :-) Hrm.. not often these days, sure enough. :) -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Oct 19 8:42:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from femail20.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail20.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54D9E37B405; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 08:42:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx ([24.2.39.156]) by femail20.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011019154238.MCGM18047.femail20.sdc1.sfba.home.com@laptop.baldwin.cx>; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 08:42:38 -0700 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 08:42:32 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org, Gordon Tetlow Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 18-Oct-01 Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Gordon Tetlow writes: >> Actually, fparseln() is defined in libutil.h (per the man page). I don't >> have my current box available (power outage at home), but if you could >> look over it, it should work. > > Ah, that's right - I couldn't find the right header, I should have > simply looked at the libutil Makefile. Thanks! Or the fparseln(3) manpage which lists the includes. :) -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Oct 19 8:43: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D469B37B42F; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 08:42:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx ([24.2.39.156]) by femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011019154247.QOAF631.femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com@laptop.baldwin.cx>; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 08:42:47 -0700 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20011019101946.E60412@wantadilla.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 08:42:41 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: Greg Lehey Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/scripts? Cc: FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.ORG, Nate Williams , Dag-Erling Smorgrav Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 19-Oct-01 Greg Lehey wrote: > On Friday, 19 October 2001 at 1:04:12 +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: >> Nate Williams writes: >>> Most folks will probably not analyze the crashdumps, or they will copy >>> them off somewhere else so they can free up /var/crash for the next >>> crashdump, so I'd say stick .gdbinit somewhere else. >> >> /usr/src/share/misc or /usr/src/sys/conf might be good choices then. >> /usr/src/sys/scripts sounds like a good idea, I don't like the idea of >> creating a new directory just for one teeny little file. > > No, there are a number of files in there, and I expect more to > arrive. I'm prepared to discuss the point, though. /sys/scripts has > the advantage that it's compatible with BSD/OS, which I don't suppose > we have to over-emphasize. One thing I would suggest is to create several .gdbinit.foo files for different functionality so that one can create a custom .gdbinit simply by including the desired set of .gdbinit.foo files. Thus making it easier for people who already have a hacked .gdbinit to use these new functions as well. Note that some of the functions may very well end up being very MD (such as the manual stack traces of other pids by examining the stack, etc.) so we might want to think about a way of handling MD scripts vs. MI scripts. -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Oct 19 9:29:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BB7537B403; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:29:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.245.134.128.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.245.134.128]) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18062; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:29:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3BD05505.85699483@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:29:57 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Barton Cc: Gregory Neil Shapiro , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New sendmail users (was Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned) References: <29611.1003411145@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> <15311.1383.814782.672622@horsey.gshapiro.net> <3BCF1A60.13C78B28@DougBarton.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Doug Barton wrote: > > My only objection is the name of the user for uid 25. It should be > smtp, both to match the service name for the port, and to make it more > generic which will help us avoid the inevitable whining and crying from > the anti-sendmail crowd. Port 26 is currently unassigned, so it's as > good a candidate for your mailnull user as any. I think that name is a > little wacky, but since that's the default in sendmail and there's no > contenders for port 26, it's as good as any I suppose. :) We independently arrived at "mailnull" for the IBM Web Connections NOC, so count me as one vote in favor of the name. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Oct 19 9:32:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EADE237B401 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:32:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.245.134.128.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.245.134.128]) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02214; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:32:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3BD055B8.D9CDCBC8@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:32:56 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Gordon Tetlow , "Andrey A. Chernov" , Sheldon Hearn , Yarema , arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: Apache port change from nobody:nogroup to www:www planned References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > Gordon Tetlow writes: > > Refresh my memory as to why nobody is special in NIS land? > > For one, our rpc.ypupdated is hardcoded to refuse changes to map > entries with a key of "nobody". There might be more magic in other > places; I'm not really inclined to go groping through NIS sources to > find out where. I have it on good authority that 65535 and 0 are magic as well. 8-). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Oct 19 9:37:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF5D837B405 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:37:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.245.134.128.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.245.134.128]) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25665; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:37:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3BD056E9.F1D91138@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:38:01 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ollivier Robert Cc: Randell Jesup , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG, Matt Dillon Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c References: <200110110851.f9B8ptf60343@freefall.freebsd.org><20011011112527.A54224@coffee.q9media.com><20011011154203.C44561@dragon.nuxi.com><20011013143225.B4527@ns2.freenix.org><20011013172706.A53976@dragon.nuxi.com><20011014160303.A22301@ns2.freenix.org><20011014194232.A50125@dragon.nuxi.com><00005ba2015f4b07d1@[192.168.1.4]> <0000157003191707d1@[192.168.1.4]> <20011018225023.B41916@tara.freenix.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ollivier Robert wrote: > According to Randell Jesup: > > So, do we really have problems with 16k/4k/64? If so, let's fix the > > problems. > > I don't know really if we have problems with something other than a 8:1 ratio > but 4k is too big IMO and wastes too much space. There are some obvious problems with any frag size larger than the physical disk block side, when it comes to guaranteeing the atomicity of the writes in a situation where the system is not stable (e.g. connected to the power grid in California). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Oct 19 10:19:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx.wgate.com (mail.wgate.com [38.219.83.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C6E1137B401 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:19:48 -0700 (PDT) To: tlambert2@mindspring.com Cc: Ollivier Robert , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG, Matt Dillon Received: From MAIL.TVOL.NET (10.1.1.4[10.1.1.4 port:3666]) by mx.wgate.comMail essentials (server 2.429) with SMTP id: <13744@mx.wgate.com>transfer for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 1:17:53 PM -0400 ;transfer smtpmailfrom X-MESINK_Inbound: 0 X-MESINK_MailForType: SMTP X-MESINK_SenderType: SMTP X-MESINK_Sender: rjesup@wgate.com X-MESINK_MailFor: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from jesup.eng.tvol.net ([10.32.2.26]) by mail.tvol.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13)id VC7GSQ6B; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 13:18:20 -0400 Reply-To: Randell Jesup Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sbin/newfs newfs.8 newfs.c References: <200110110851.f9B8ptf60343@freefall.freebsd.org><20011011112527.A54224@coffee.q9media.com><20011011154203.C44561@dragon.nuxi.com><20011013143225.B4527@ns2.freenix.org><20011013172706.A53976@dragon.nuxi.com><20011014160303.A22301@ns2.freenix.org><20011014194232.A50125@dragon.nuxi.com><00005ba2015f4b07d1@[192.168.1.4]> <0000157003191707d1@[192.168.1.4]><20011018225023.B41916@tara.freenix.org><0000471a054ac107d1@[192.168.1.4]> From: Randell Jesup Date: 19 Oct 2001 13:26:20 -0400 In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert's message of "Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:38:01 -0700" User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii x-receiver: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG x-sender: rjesup@wgate.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <0000479c054b4307d1@[192.168.1.4]> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert writes: >Ollivier Robert wrote: >> According to Randell Jesup: >> > So, do we really have problems with 16k/4k/64? If so, let's fix the >> > problems. >> >> I don't know really if we have problems with something other than a 8:1 = ratio >> but 4k is too big IMO and wastes too much space. Bruce Evans noted that there's a bug in my disklabel.c patch that's= been in for 7 months, and frag is set to 0 if the user didn't specify it by= hand. newfs considers frag of 0 to be 1024, and also limits block size to 8*frag, so the default actually was 8192/1024 >There are some obvious problems with any frag size larger than >the physical disk block side, when it comes to guaranteeing the >atomicity of the writes in a situation where the system is not >stable (e.g. connected to the power grid in California). 1024 is larger than physical disk sector size too. The FS should deal with this possibility anyways. -- Randell Jesup, Worldgate Communications, ex-Scala, ex-Amiga OS team rjesup@wgate.com "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safet= y deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Oct 19 11:56: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [66.92.13.169]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6DC837B405; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 11:56:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.11.6/8.11.1) id f9JIthp37668; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 11:55:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 11:55:43 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Gordon Tetlow , arch@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap Message-ID: <20011019115543.B37445@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: arch@freebsd.org References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from des@ofug.org on Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 09:47:53PM +0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 09:47:53PM +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > > Your rcorder patch is incorrect. > > Here's a correct patch. Does anybody mind if I commit this and > connect rcorder(8) to the build? YES I MIND!! What part of "it is on the vendor branch for now" don't you understand? Stop picking at the trival fruit on the ground and instead help with the fruit in /etc/rc.d/. I really didn't think this thread was going to bikeshed, but I was very wrong. Lets work on an actual prototype (who cares if it is rough) so we have something that actually does *something*. If you don't like my patch, you are certainly free to post another one. -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Oct 19 12: 0:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [66.92.13.169]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 268AA37B44B; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:00:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.11.6/8.11.1) id f9JIxrm37715; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 11:59:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 11:59:53 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Cyrille Lefevre Cc: Gordon Tetlow , arch@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, chris@freebsd.org, rwatson@freebsd.org, sheldonh@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap Message-ID: <20011019115953.D37445@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@freebsd.org References: <200110182129.f9ILTxH07817@gits.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200110182129.f9ILTxH07817@gits.dyndns.org>; from clefevre@citeweb.net on Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 11:29:59PM +0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 11:29:59PM +0200, Cyrille Lefevre wrote: > > I've prepared a status report about this project. the xml file in > attachment have to be reviewed since I've just put descriptions > from FreeBSD-rc's Yahoo! Group and your email message. WHY in the world are you sending in a "status" report about this? From this thread we are still flushing out details to the point there is nothing we can say. > first of all, there should be a consensus about the owner of > this project ? also, who create the FreeBSD-rc's Yahoo! Group ? We don't need a Yahoo! group. There is zero wrong with the archived FreeBSD mailing lists. They have worked for FreeBSD development for 8 years now. -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Oct 19 12:57:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.noos.fr (descartes.noos.net [212.198.2.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A40837B412 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:57:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 28968505 invoked by uid 0); 19 Oct 2001 19:57:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gits.dyndns.org) ([212.198.231.37]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.74 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 19 Oct 2001 19:57:36 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by gits.dyndns.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9JJvYW04832; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 21:57:34 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root) Message-Id: <200110191957.f9JJvYW04832@gits.dyndns.org> Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap In-Reply-To: <20011019115953.D37445@dragon.nuxi.com> To: obrien@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 21:57:33 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Gordon Tetlow , arch@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, chris@freebsd.org, rwatson@freebsd.org, sheldonh@freebsd.org Reply-To: clefevre@citeweb.net From: Cyrille Lefevre Organization: ACME X-Face: X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL94c (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David O'Brien wrote: > On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 11:29:59PM +0200, Cyrille Lefevre wrote: > > > > I've prepared a status report about this project. the xml file in > > attachment have to be reviewed since I've just put descriptions > > from FreeBSD-rc's Yahoo! Group and your email message. > > WHY in the world are you sending in a "status" report about this? to record this task as a real project and to avoid duplicates works... > >From this thread we are still flushing out details to the point there is > nothing we can say. > > > first of all, there should be a consensus about the owner of > > this project ? also, who create the FreeBSD-rc's Yahoo! Group ? > > We don't need a Yahoo! group. There is zero wrong with the archived > FreeBSD mailing lists. They have worked for FreeBSD development for 8 > years now. I'm just reporting this one exists as you report the existence of Kevin Way's work two days ago. of course, it would be better to have a -rc mailing list. Cyrille. -- Cyrille Lefevre mailto:clefevre@citeweb.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Oct 19 16:24:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B51537B403; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 16:24:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hades.hell.gr (patr530-a161.otenet.gr [212.205.215.161]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id f9JNOOO21556; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 02:24:24 +0300 (EEST) Received: (from charon@localhost) by hades.hell.gr (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9JNOPU26790; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 02:24:25 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from charon@labs.gr) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 02:24:24 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Cyrille Lefevre Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap Message-ID: <20011020022424.C26569@hades.hell.gr> References: <20011019115953.D37445@dragon.nuxi.com> <200110191957.f9JJvYW04832@gits.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200110191957.f9JJvYW04832@gits.dyndns.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.22.1i X-GPG-Fingerprint: C1EB 0653 DB8B A557 3829 00F9 D60F 941A 3186 03B6 X-URL: http://labs.gr/~charon/ Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Cyrille Lefevre wrote: > > I'm just reporting this one exists as you report the existence of > Kevin Way's work two days ago. of course, it would be better to > have a -rc mailing list. Not really. One more list to follow, when threads in existing lists will probably be enough for this. We don't have one mailing list for every port category, or for every different part of contrib/. It's overkill to create a list for something like this IMHO :/ -giorgos To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Oct 19 17:35:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE43A37B407; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:35:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id BA16A6ACA3; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 10:05:07 +0930 (CST) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 10:05:07 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: John Baldwin Cc: FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.ORG, Nate Williams , Dag-Erling Smorgrav Subject: Re: /usr/src/sys/scripts? Message-ID: <20011020100507.Z60412@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20011019101946.E60412@wantadilla.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from jhb@FreeBSD.org on Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 08:42:41AM -0700 Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Friday, 19 October 2001 at 8:42:41 -0700, John Baldwin wrote: > > On 19-Oct-01 Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Friday, 19 October 2001 at 1:04:12 +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: >>> Nate Williams writes: >>>> Most folks will probably not analyze the crashdumps, or they will copy >>>> them off somewhere else so they can free up /var/crash for the next >>>> crashdump, so I'd say stick .gdbinit somewhere else. >>> >>> /usr/src/share/misc or /usr/src/sys/conf might be good choices then. >>> /usr/src/sys/scripts sounds like a good idea, I don't like the idea of >>> creating a new directory just for one teeny little file. >> >> No, there are a number of files in there, and I expect more to >> arrive. I'm prepared to discuss the point, though. /sys/scripts has >> the advantage that it's compatible with BSD/OS, which I don't suppose >> we have to over-emphasize. > > One thing I would suggest is to create several .gdbinit.foo files for different > functionality so that one can create a custom .gdbinit simply by including the > desired set of .gdbinit.foo files. Thus making it easier for people who > already have a hacked .gdbinit to use these new functions as well. Yes, that's my plan. > Note that some of the functions may very well end up being very MD > (such as the manual stack traces of other pids by examining the > stack, etc.) so we might want to think about a way of handling MD > scripts vs. MI scripts. I'm open to suggestions. One might really be to put the MD stuff in the /conf file, as DES suggested. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Oct 19 23:15:49 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from relay.gnf.org (relay.gnf.org [208.44.31.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDFF037B401 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 23:15:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gnf.org (smtp.gnf.org [10.0.0.11]) by relay.gnf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9K6FYi01575; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 23:15:34 -0700 Received: by mail.gnf.org (Postfix, from userid 888) id A6BD011E508; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 23:11:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.gnf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D14211A572; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 23:11:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 23:11:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Gordon Tetlow To: Giorgos Keramidas Cc: Cyrille Lefevre , Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap In-Reply-To: <20011020022424.C26569@hades.hell.gr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I killed -hackers, again. Sorry David. On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > Not really. One more list to follow, when threads in existing lists > will probably be enough for this. We don't have one mailing list for > every port category, or for every different part of contrib/. It's > overkill to create a list for something like this IMHO :/ Agreed. This should live in -arch as most of the discussion is going to be non-technical (do we want it like NetBSD or FreeBSD boot order?). Another list is not what we need. Now that we have resolved some of the administrivia, I'm going to take the weekend off, go camping, and get back to hacking /etc/rc.d/. I already have a whopping 4 scripts ported over. Only 51+ to go =) There are already a couple of issues I've seen that will cause some incompatabilities: 1) Swap controls. NetBSD does something totally different (and better) that FreeBSD. 2) fsck. There's a nice fsck patch that handles gracefully running fsck -p on a read-write fs. Can someone check it out? basesrc/sbin/fsck/fsck.c (revision 1.26). I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I'm not much for hacking C. 3) nfsd and mountd live in /sbin when they belong in /usr/sbin. Please see pr bin/30972 That's it for the moment, but I'm sure there will be more. Have a great weekend! -gordon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Oct 19 23:51:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail-relay1.yahoo.com (mail-relay1.yahoo.com [216.145.48.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A554637B403; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 23:51:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yahoo-inc.com (socks1.yahoo.com [216.145.50.200]) by mail-relay1.yahoo.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE5738B5A5; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 23:51:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3BD11EFF.9EF67DC7@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 23:51:43 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: clefevre@citeweb.net Cc: Gordon Tetlow , arch@FreeBSD.ORG, chris@FreeBSD.ORG, rwatson@FreeBSD.ORG, sheldonh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New rc.d init script roadmap References: <200110182129.f9ILTxH07817@gits.dyndns.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Cyrille Lefevre wrote: > first of all, there should be a consensus about the owner of > this project? Given that I have a lot of familiarity with the current rc scripts, I volunteered to help coordinate this effort a while back. However, I got a promotion at work and the last few months have been spent preparing to move, moving, and settling into my new home and job. I'm fairly well settled now, and was all set to get to work when this thread popped up. Amazing how things work out that way. :) If the consensus is that someone should manage the project, I'm still willing to help. If not, no problem. > also, who create the FreeBSD-rc's Yahoo! Group ? I did, because at the time it was felt that due to the many factors that will have to be discussed about this project we didn't want to clutter up -arch. If people are happy with -arch, no problem. > then you have to submit a status report to avoid duplicates > work... Well, my original intention was to announce that the mailing list is open for business and that we were planning to start work on the project. I disagree with David that a status report isn't necessary... this is a project, and even though there isn't much progress yet, it should be reported. :) Doug -- "We will not tire, we will not falter, and we will not fail." - George W. Bush, President of the United States September 20, 2001 Do YOU Yahoo!? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat Oct 20 6:29:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from nagual.pp.ru (pobrecita.freebsd.ru [194.87.13.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6083F37B407 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 06:29:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ache@localhost) by nagual.pp.ru (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9KDTso07651 for arch@freebsd.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 17:29:55 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from ache) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 17:29:54 +0400 From: "Andrey A. Chernov" To: arch@freebsd.org Subject: "pop", "www" & others result? Message-ID: <20011020172953.A7618@nagual.pp.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, I don't understand which solution we finally choose: 1) Add "pop", "www" and some other commonly used to master.passwd 2) Remove "pop", don't add "www" and some others. Current state ("pop" present, "www" removed) in not acceptable from both points of view. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://ache.pp.ru/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message