From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 29 04:48:46 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93D0C37B401 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 04:48:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.des.no (37.80-203-228.nextgentel.com [80.203.228.37]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2677B43FBD for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 04:48:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: by smtp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 666) id E0BF49595C; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:48:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from dwp.des.no (dwp.des.no [10.0.0.4]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30FBC95958; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:48:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id ECC9EB823; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:48:42 +0200 (CEST) To: Francisco Reyes References: <20030628140823.U95111@zoraida.natserv.net> From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:48:42 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20030628140823.U95111@zoraida.natserv.net> (Francisco Reyes's message of "Sat, 28 Jun 2003 14:10:08 -0400 (EDT)") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.2 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.0 required=8.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: FreeBSD Chat List Subject: Re: List of computer languages X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 11:48:46 -0000 Francisco Reyes writes: > Anyone knows of a URL with a list of different computer languages and > perhaps the different benefits each one may have in certain type of > applications? There are hundreds if not thousands of programming languages... how do you expect anyone to list and compare them all? (see http://99-bottles-of-beer.ls-la.net/) DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 29 06:36:38 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60D0037B401 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 06:36:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from perlpimp.codersluts.net (adsl-211-111-25.asm.bellsouth.net [68.211.111.25]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26DF543FDF for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 06:36:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sektie@codersluts.net) Received: from perlpimp.codersluts.net (sektie@localhost.codersluts.net [127.0.0.1])h5TEZ8Aa033010; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 09:35:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from sektie@codersluts.net) From: "sektie" To: Brett Glass , swear@attbi.com (Gary W. Swearingen), FreeBSD Chat Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 09:35:08 -0500 Message-Id: <20030629142052.M48323@codersluts.net> In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030627133739.035722d0@localhost> References: <3EFBFEBD.B8772772@mindspring.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030625214311.00e5e240@localhost> <20030626110336.GW34365@iconoplex.co.uk> <20030626113553.GA53078@packet.org.uk> <20030626122023.GB763@nitro.dk> <20030626124601.GB57378@iconoplex.co.uk> <3EFBFEBD.B8772772@mindspring.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030627133739.035722d0@localhost> X-Mailer: Open WebMail 2.01 20030425 X-OriginatingIP: 66.223.56.212 (sektie) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: RMS says: "Use BSD, for goodness sake!" X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:36:38 -0000 > YES, we absolutely do need to bring older code up to date -- or even > re-program the wheel if necessary. To insist upon blind forward "progress" > while the enemy is in fact nipping at our flanks is to ensure > defeat. The price of not standing up for principle now will be to > lose our very REAL freedom in exchange for Stallman's false "freedom." Before I get started, let me set one thing straight. I'm not a fan of the GPL. I hate it probably as much as you do. But don't you think you're being just a little psychotic nazi-ish about the whole thing? I mean, really now. Although the idea of running a system with absolutely no GPLed code on it sounds nice, how much difference does it really make? It sounds like a neat pet project in case the committers get really bored or run out of things to do, but I don't see that happening any time soon. What would you rather have - a stable, well supported OS, or a server that you have to reboot every 2 days because it's being tempramental (but it *must* be superior because it has no GPL'ed code)? I go for functionality, stability, and standards. One of the things I love about FreeBSD is the fact that I'm always going to know where stuff is and how it works. None of this IRIX crap (forgive me, I'm bitter, I've been thrown into an IRIX situation at work and it's made me quite irate)! where strace isn't strace and rsync isn't rsync. FreeBSD is so bloody standard. I don't have to think about "this is the way it works on this OS". When you work at a place where you're having to work on 8 bazillion different types of UNIX, you start to understand how truely wonderful standards are. I don't really mind using gcc or any of the other utilities mentioned. It's not like I plan on modifying them. Our dependancy on GPL really isn't that bad though, all things considered. A few things could be moved to base (like tcpdump). I'm really lovin' on the FreeBSD folks for moving perl out of base. :) ciao. Randi Harper sektie@codersluts.net http://perlpimp.codersluts.net/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 29 08:24:46 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C6C537B401 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 08:24:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.acecape.com (mail1.acecape.com [66.114.74.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D2C94401F for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 08:24:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lists@natserv.com) Received: from p65-147.acedsl.com (p65-147.acedsl.com [66.114.65.147]) by mail1.acecape.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5TFOghi007794; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 11:24:43 -0400 Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 11:25:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Francisco Reyes X-X-Sender: fran@zoraida.natserv.net To: Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?q?Sm=F8rgrav?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030629110424.R4549@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20030628140823.U95111@zoraida.natserv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE cc: FreeBSD Chat List Subject: Re: List of computer languages X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 15:24:46 -0000 On Sun, 29 Jun 2003, Dag-Erling [iso-8859-1] Sm=F8rgrav wrote: > There are hundreds if not thousands of programming languages... how > do you expect anyone to list and compare them all? I am mostly interested in currently used and widespread languages. Found several lists of interest. > (see http://99-bottles-of-beer.ls-la.net/) Very interesting. Some of the links I found of interest were: Hypernews list of computer languages http://www.hypernews.org/HyperNews/get/computing/lang-list.html Win 32 Language Shootout (also has link to original, linux based shootout) http://dada.perl.it/shootout/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 29 09:11:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD51637B401 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 09:11:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CEDC43FEC for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 09:11:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.12.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h5TGBhMJ015813; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 19:11:43 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from localhost (narvi@localhost)h5TGBhKX015810; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 19:11:43 +0300 (EEST) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 19:11:43 +0300 (EEST) From: Narvi To: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030627133348.03575190@localhost> Message-ID: <20030629191013.F24605-100000@haldjas.folklore.ee> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: RMS says: "Use BSD, for goodness sake!" X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 16:11:51 -0000 On Fri, 27 Jun 2003, Brett Glass wrote: > At 02:08 AM 6/27/2003, Terry Lambert wrote: > > >> bzip2 - could be reimplemented > > > >Or ignored. The Unisys patent which caused it to be written has > >expired (Welcome home, compress, we missed you!). > > bzip is actually better, because of the way it reorders files. > It does block sort - or rather apply Burrows-Hweeler transform (BWT) > >> gzip - nasty, but re-implementable. Or we move to a non-GNU zip format. > > > >Compress, again. > > Can't bzip handle gzip archives? > no. Though you could in principle unify the two into one executable with some savings. > --Brett > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 29 10:19:52 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E715137B401 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 10:19:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout03.sul.t-online.com (mailout03.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.81]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1429744003 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 10:19:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from calvin8@t-online.de) Received: from fwd07.aul.t-online.de by mailout03.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 19WfqA-0001AR-09; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 19:19:50 +0200 Received: from 217.85.150.170 (r4863qZJ8ep9kS-HSHYwC8fkk1IWdP0i5vmUzYIaGmJ7JUsYVLsDQU@[217.85.150.170]) by fwd07.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 19Wfq5-1ZFGLI0; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 19:19:45 +0200 Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 19:20:38 +0200 From: calvin8@t-online.de (Andi Scharfstein) X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.61) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <23518176406.20030629192038@myrealbox.com> To: FreeBSD Chat List In-Reply-To: <20030629110424.R4549@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20030628140823.U95111@zoraida.natserv.net> <20030629110424.R4549@zoraida.natserv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Seen: false X-ID: r4863qZJ8ep9kS-HSHYwC8fkk1IWdP0i5vmUzYIaGmJ7JUsYVLsDQU Subject: Re: List of computer languages X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Andi Scharfstein List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 17:19:53 -0000 Hi, > I am mostly interested in currently used and widespread languages. > Found several lists of interest. How about http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CategoryLanguage or http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?LanguagePissingMatch ? -- Bye: Andi S. mailto:nullpointer@myrealbox.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 29 19:16:57 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC8B737B401 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 19:16:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rwcrmhc11.attbi.com (rwcrmhc11.attbi.com [204.127.198.35]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E676143F3F for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 19:16:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-chat-local@be-well.no-ip.com) Received: from be-well.ilk.org (be-well.no-ip.com[24.147.188.198]) by attbi.com (rwcrmhc11) with ESMTP id <2003063002165601300ia4uie>; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 02:16:56 +0000 Received: from be-well.ilk.org (lowellg.ne.client2.attbi.com [24.147.188.198] (may be forged)) by be-well.ilk.org (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5U2GsxW000360 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 22:16:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from freebsd-chat-local@be-well.no-ip.com) Received: (from lowell@localhost) by be-well.ilk.org (8.12.9/8.12.6/Submit) id h5U2GsJk000357; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 22:16:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: be-well.ilk.org: lowell set sender to freebsd-chat-local@be-well.ilk.org using -f Sender: lowell@be-well.no-ip.com To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <20030628140823.U95111@zoraida.natserv.net> From: Lowell Gilbert Date: 29 Jun 2003 22:16:54 -0400 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <447k74ia21.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> Lines: 15 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: List of computer languages X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 02:16:58 -0000 des@des.no (Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav) writes: > Francisco Reyes writes: > > Anyone knows of a URL with a list of different computer languages and > > perhaps the different benefits each one may have in certain type of > > applications? >=20 > There are hundreds if not thousands of programming languages... how > do you expect anyone to list and compare them all? >=20 > (see http://99-bottles-of-beer.ls-la.net/) That may be amusing, but it's actually useful. In contrast, I might suggest: http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/90q2/foot.html From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 29 21:19:05 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBFFC37B401 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 21:19:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web13403.mail.yahoo.com (web13403.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.61]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7416243FF9 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 21:19:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giffunip@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20030630041905.60345.qmail@web13403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [200.91.194.60] by web13403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 06:19:05 CEST Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 06:19:05 +0200 (CEST) From: "=?iso-8859-1?q?Pedro=20F.=20Giffuni?=" To: lists@natserv.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: List of computer languages X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 04:19:06 -0000 Hi; I'm not sure this is what you are looking for, but this website is a classic: http://www.idiom.com/free-compilers/ cheers, Pedro. ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: 6MB di spazio gratuito, 30MB per i tuoi allegati, l'antivirus, il filtro Anti-spam http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mail.yahoo.com/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 29 21:28:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 278A837B401 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 21:28:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web13404.mail.yahoo.com (web13404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.62]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C5DB044031 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 21:28:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giffunip@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20030630042815.96705.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [200.91.194.60] by web13404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 06:28:15 CEST Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 06:28:15 +0200 (CEST) From: "=?iso-8859-1?q?Pedro=20F.=20Giffuni?=" To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Where's FreeBSD 1.x? (was Re: RMS says: "Use BSD, for goodness sake!") X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 04:28:16 -0000 Hi; I was looking at the "ancient" UNIX code and there are some good things there... Is there a FreeBSD 1.x repository somewhere? cheers, Pedro. ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: 6MB di spazio gratuito, 30MB per i tuoi allegati, l'antivirus, il filtro Anti-spam http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mail.yahoo.com/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 30 01:02:41 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BCA537B401; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 01:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hannibal.servitor.co.uk (hannibal.servitor.co.uk [195.188.15.48]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C18143FBD; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 01:02:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@hannibal.servitor.co.uk) Received: from paul by hannibal.servitor.co.uk with local (Exim 4.14) id 19Wtci-000MqO-CM; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:02:52 +0100 Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:02:52 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey Message-ID: <20030630080252.GK57378@iconoplex.co.uk> References: <3EFBFEBD.B8772772@mindspring.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030625214311.00e5e240@localhost> <20030626110336.GW34365@iconoplex.co.uk> <20030626113553.GA53078@packet.org.uk> <20030626122023.GB763@nitro.dk> <20030626124601.GB57378@iconoplex.co.uk> <3EFBFEBD.B8772772@mindspring.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030627133739.035722d0@localhost> <20030628052710.GK29066@wantadilla.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: <20030628052710.GK29066@wantadilla.lemis.com> Sender: Paul Robinson cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: RMS says: "Use BSD, for goodness sake!" X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:02:41 -0000 On Sat, Jun 28, 2003 at 02:57:10PM +0930, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > I note that most of the discussion on this topic was by people who are > not central to the FreeBSD project. =20 That's because the people central to the project have better things to do= =20 with their time than look at what the actual effort is to remove GPL code= =20 `from the base of FreeBSD. For those of us that looked the answer was "not= =20 much". Sorry if you think that's a useless answer, but personally I found i= t=20 quite revealing. > As you know, few people are as > zealous as you are about wanting to rid the project of GPL'd code. That's not the issue. As far as I, and a hefty percentage of the rest of the user base are concerned, BSD is about choice, not political ideals. I should have the choice of running a completely non-GPL BSD. I can do that - I can run Open, but I'd much rather run FreeBSD, particularly when the effort is as small as we've identified it really is. =20 > If anything, FreeBSD is gradually removing GPLd code where it makes > sense. IIRC you hadn't noticed when we changed from GNU awk to nawk. Actually, there are differences. But that's another conversation. =20 > We've said it before: provide us with a good replacement and we'll > consider it seriously. Go ahead. I would *really* like to see a > replacement for gdb, for example. There are at most half a dozen apps that require the retention of the current GPL implementation. The rest can either be rm'ed (nobody uses them), replaced with BSD licensed versions, or moved out to ports. Awk can be moved to non-GPL just by MFC'ing a change already in -CURRENT. The effort to do all this is relatively small. I'd do it, you wouldn't notice, but I don't (as you know) have any ability to make those changes. But why the hostility towards doing it? I know this has the whiff of a bikeshed about it, but to me it makes sense. Perhaps I'm missing something... =20 > > To insist upon blind forward "progress" while the enemy is in fact > > nipping at our flanks is to ensure defeat. The price of not > > standing up for principle now will be to lose our very REAL freedom > > in exchange for Stallman's false "freedom." >=20 > Most people in the FreeBSD project don't see things quite like that. Agreed, they don't. I don't. But when a BSD can be made GPL-clean with the= =20 exception of a compiler and debugger, and others are already doing so, I=20 don't see what the reasons are for retaining GPL code when it makes sense= =20 for as much of the base to be BSD, as is possible.... Again, I think I must be missing something. Greg is normally right in these= =20 matters, I just don't see his point this time... --=20 Paul Robinson From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 30 01:09:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FD3537B401; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 01:09:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from skynet.stack.nl (skynet.stack.nl [131.155.140.225]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 663E843F3F; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 01:08:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dean@dragon.stack.nl) Received: by skynet.stack.nl (Postfix, from userid 65534) id EE7FE3E27; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:09:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from dragon.stack.nl (dragon.stack.nl [2001:610:1108:5011:207:e9ff:fe09:230]) by skynet.stack.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 123F13E2D; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:09:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dragon.stack.nl (Postfix, from userid 1600) id CBEE95F18B; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:08:53 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:08:53 +0200 From: Dean Strik To: Paul Robinson Message-ID: <20030630080853.GB42783@dragon.stack.nl> References: <3EFBFEBD.B8772772@mindspring.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030625214311.00e5e240@localhost> <20030626110336.GW34365@iconoplex.co.uk> <20030626113553.GA53078@packet.org.uk> <20030626122023.GB763@nitro.dk> <20030626124601.GB57378@iconoplex.co.uk> <3EFBFEBD.B8772772@mindspring.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030627133739.035722d0@localhost> <20030628052710.GK29066@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20030630080252.GK57378@iconoplex.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030630080252.GK57378@iconoplex.co.uk> X-Editor: VIM Rulez! http://www.vim.org/ X-MUD: Outerspace - telnet://mud.stack.nl:3333 X-Really: Yes User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-32.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) cc: Greg 'groggy' Lehey cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: RMS says: "Use BSD, for goodness sake!" X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:09:00 -0000 Paul Robinson wrote: > There are at most half a dozen apps that require the retention of the > current GPL implementation. The rest can either be rm'ed (nobody uses them), > replaced with BSD licensed versions, or moved out to ports. Awk can be moved > to non-GPL just by MFC'ing a change already in -CURRENT. I'm pretty sure that any of these changes (if so) would be made in 5.x or possibly 6.x, but certainly not 4.x. In case of awk, there are compatibility issues too. I would ask you not to consider 4.x as a reference platform. Use 5.x instead. > The effort to do > all this is relatively small. I'd do it, you wouldn't notice, but I don't > (as you know) have any ability to make those changes. But why the hostility > towards doing it? I know this has the whiff of a bikeshed about it, but to > me it makes sense. Perhaps I'm missing something... No hostility I'm sure but merely the statement that degnuification is not as much of an issue as you'd like it to be. -- Dean C. Strik Eindhoven University of Technology dean@stack.nl | dean@ipnet6.org | http://www.ipnet6.org/ "This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." -- Wolfgang Pauli From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 30 01:33:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A74E237B401 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 01:33:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (storm.FreeBSD.org.uk [194.242.157.42]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF7A043F3F for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 01:33:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@grondar.org) Received: from storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (Ugrondar@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5U8XdCd092805; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:33:39 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.org) Received: (from Ugrondar@localhost)h5U8XdvJ092804; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:33:39 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: storm.FreeBSD.org.uk: Ugrondar set sender to mark@grondar.org using -f Received: from grondar.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])h5U8XRig084782; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:33:27 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.org) From: Mark Murray Message-Id: <200306300833.h5U8XRig084782@grimreaper.grondar.org> To: Paul Robinson In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:02:52 BST." <20030630080252.GK57378@iconoplex.co.uk> Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:33:27 +0100 Sender: mark@grondar.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,FROM_NO_LOWER,IN_REP_TO, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: RMS says: "Use BSD, for goodness sake!" X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:33:43 -0000 Paul Robinson writes: > On Sat, Jun 28, 2003 at 02:57:10PM +0930, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > > > I note that most of the discussion on this topic was by people who > > are not central to the FreeBSD project. > > That's because the people central to the project have better things to > do with their time than look at what the actual effort is to remove > GPL code `from the base of FreeBSD. For those of us that looked the > answer was "not much". Sorry if you think that's a useless answer, but > personally I found it quite revealing. Care to submit patches? > > As you know, few people are as zealous as you are about wanting to > > rid the project of GPL'd code. > > That's not the issue. As far as I, and a hefty percentage of the rest > of the user base are concerned, BSD is about choice, not political > ideals. I should have the choice of running a completely non-GPL > BSD. I can do that - I can run Open, but I'd much rather run FreeBSD, > particularly when the effort is as small as we've identified it really > is. Actually, you have the choice to change the code. The rest is at the whim of the developers doing the work. > > We've said it before: provide us with a good replacement and we'll > > consider it seriously. Go ahead. I would *really* like to see a > > replacement for gdb, for example. > > There are at most half a dozen apps that require the retention of > the current GPL implementation. The rest can either be rm'ed (nobody > uses them), replaced with BSD licensed versions, or moved out to > ports. Awk can be moved to non-GPL just by MFC'ing a change already > in -CURRENT. The effort to do all this is relatively small. I'd do > it, you wouldn't notice, but I don't (as you know) have any ability > to make those changes. But why the hostility towards doing it? I > know this has the whiff of a bikeshed about it, but to me it makes > sense. Perhaps I'm missing something... We are not going to remove POSIX-mandated stuff, which means we can't just "rm" stuff. As for the rest of it, folks have their own priorities. Speed/efficiency is one of them, and folks tend to go for that over licensing zealotry. If a BSD-licensed app is a drop-in replacement for a GPL one (in a practical way), then of course folks will be interested in using it. Until then, the GPL/BSDL issue is NOT the trump card. > > Most people in the FreeBSD project don't see things quite like that. > > Agreed, they don't. I don't. But when a BSD can be made GPL-clean with > the exception of a compiler and debugger, and others are already doing > so, I don't see what the reasons are for retaining GPL code when it > makes sense for as much of the base to be BSD, as is possible.... As an exercise, I replaced our man(1) with OpenBSD's. It fell very short in the features that our current man has. If you want to do something useful, you may want to fix that. M -- Mark Murray iumop ap!sdn w,I idlaH From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 30 04:13:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26B1237B401; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 04:13:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hannibal.servitor.co.uk (hannibal.servitor.co.uk [195.188.15.48]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55D5043F93; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 04:13:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@hannibal.servitor.co.uk) Received: from paul by hannibal.servitor.co.uk with local (Exim 4.14) id 19Wwb5-000NM0-0k; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:13:23 +0100 Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:13:23 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: Dean Strik Message-ID: <20030630111322.GS57378@iconoplex.co.uk> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030625214311.00e5e240@localhost> <20030626110336.GW34365@iconoplex.co.uk> <20030626113553.GA53078@packet.org.uk> <20030626122023.GB763@nitro.dk> <20030626124601.GB57378@iconoplex.co.uk> <3EFBFEBD.B8772772@mindspring.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030627133739.035722d0@localhost> <20030628052710.GK29066@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20030630080252.GK57378@iconoplex.co.uk> <20030630080853.GB42783@dragon.stack.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030630080853.GB42783@dragon.stack.nl> Sender: Paul Robinson cc: Greg 'groggy' Lehey cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: RMS says: "Use BSD, for goodness sake!" X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:13:16 -0000 On Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 10:08:53AM +0200, Dean Strik wrote: > I would ask you not to consider 4.x as a reference platform. Use 5.x > instead. Fair enough. > No hostility I'm sure but merely the statement that degnuification is > not as much of an issue as you'd like it to be. Statements like that, quite frankly, piss me off. Refine the statement to "degnuification may be important to some people, but it isn't to me" and your ego may benefit. I'm sure it's not your intention to sound a touch self-centred, but look at the bigger picture. Quite frankly, the people who have the power to invest in the project (read: pay for people to work on it full time) would almost certainly welcome as little of the project as possible to rely on GPL code. In an ideal world, 0% of base would be GPL. This is not hard to do. We've now proven the only bits that are difficult can be moved to ports with the exception of gcc (and even that could be moved out to ports only). We're talking about half a dozen apps at most. So why the "no, let's not do it" attitude? It's a minor task. It may help bring money into the project. I just DON'T GET IT! I'm going mad. I've had so much mail over this, I just don't care any more. I've been reading mail sent off-list effectively calling me a wanker since 8:30 this morning, even though not a single one of them addresses a single solitary point I've already raised. I don't have a commit bit, I don't really want one right now. I'm just going to do my own thing here on my own builds. You guys do whatever you want. You know, the package stuff that was being talked about the other week. If that works the way it could do, this argument wouldn't need to exist. I regret to inform that for me at least, correspondance on this topic is now closed. Any more of the bulls**t I've been sent this morning goes to /dev/null. Let's kill this now. -- Paul Robinson From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 30 08:00:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF70D37B401 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:00:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gldis.ca (constans.gldis.ca [66.11.169.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4B9343FBF for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:00:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gldisater@gldis.ca) Received: from gldis.ca (gldisater@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gldis.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h5UF0B4P068252; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:00:11 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from gldisater@gldis.ca) Received: (from gldisater@localhost) by gldis.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h5UF0Atd068251; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:00:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:00:10 -0400 From: Jeremy Faulkner To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Message-ID: <20030630150010.GA68098@constans.gldis.ca> References: <20030630042815.96705.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030630042815.96705.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Where's FreeBSD 1.x? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:00:14 -0000 On Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 06:28:15AM +0200, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > Hi; > > I was looking at the "ancient" UNIX code and there are some good > things there... Is there a FreeBSD 1.x repository somewhere? > > cheers, > > Pedro. http://www.gldis.ca/~gldisater/oldnix/1.1.5.1-RELEASE.tgz -- Jeremy Faulkner http://www.gldis.ca From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 30 09:44:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7949737B401 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:44:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from moo.sysabend.org (moo.sysabend.org [66.111.41.70]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1C7543FB1 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:44:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id E6E85DB1; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:44:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5A21D69; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:44:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:44:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: sektie In-Reply-To: <20030629142052.M48323@codersluts.net> Message-ID: <20030630094144.G74111-100000@moo.sysabend.org> X-representing: Only myself. X-badge: We don't need no stinking badges. X-obligatory-profanity: Fuck X-moo: Moo. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: RMS says: "Use BSD, for goodness sake!" X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 16:44:13 -0000 On Sun, 29 Jun 2003, sektie wrote: > is and how it works. None of this IRIX crap (forgive me, I'm bitter, > I've been thrown into an IRIX situation at work and it's made me quite > irate)! Irix is SysV, not BSD. You shouldn't be expecting it to be FBSD. Not meeting your (unrealistic) expectations is no fault of the engineers at SGI. Jamie Bowden -- "It was half way to Rivendell when the drugs began to take hold" Hunter S Tolkien "Fear and Loathing in Barad Dur" Iain Bowen From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 30 12:25:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0429437B401; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:25:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.des.no (37.80-203-228.nextgentel.com [80.203.228.37]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C46443FB1; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:25:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: by smtp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 666) id DB63B95960; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 21:25:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from dwp.des.no (dwp.des.no [10.0.0.4]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3723E9595F; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 21:25:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 17ABFB823; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 21:25:09 +0200 (CEST) To: Paul Robinson References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030625214311.00e5e240@localhost> <20030626110336.GW34365@iconoplex.co.uk> <20030626113553.GA53078@packet.org.uk> <20030626122023.GB763@nitro.dk> <20030626124601.GB57378@iconoplex.co.uk> <3EFBFEBD.B8772772@mindspring.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030627133739.035722d0@localhost> <20030628052710.GK29066@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20030630080252.GK57378@iconoplex.co.uk> <20030630080853.GB42783@dragon.stack.nl> <20030630111322.GS57378@iconoplex.co.uk> From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 21:25:08 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20030630111322.GS57378@iconoplex.co.uk> (Paul Robinson's message of "Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:13:23 +0100") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.2 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=8.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: Greg 'groggy' Lehey cc: Dean Strik cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: RMS says: "Use BSD, for goodness sake!" X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:25:13 -0000 Paul Robinson writes: > So why the "no, let's not do it" attitude? It's a minor task. It may help= =20 > bring money into the project. I just DON'T GET IT! There's nothing to GET. Send us patches and we'll consider them. If you're not willing to send patches, then obviously the GPL isn't a big enough issue for you either, or it's not such a minor task as you think. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 30 12:45:45 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4396C37B401 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:45:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carver.gumbysoft.com (carver.gumbysoft.com [66.220.23.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D64F643FDF for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:45:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@gumbysoft.com) Received: by carver.gumbysoft.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C98AE72FE8; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:45:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by carver.gumbysoft.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C82D472FE3; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:45:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:45:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug White To: Jeremy Faulkner In-Reply-To: <20030630150010.GA68098@constans.gldis.ca> Message-ID: <20030630124515.B31036@carver.gumbysoft.com> References: <20030630042815.96705.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> <20030630150010.GA68098@constans.gldis.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: "Pedro F. Giffuni" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Where's FreeBSD 1.x? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:45:45 -0000 On Mon, 30 Jun 2003, Jeremy Faulkner wrote: > On Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 06:28:15AM +0200, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > > Hi; > > > > I was looking at the "ancient" UNIX code and there are some good > > things there... Is there a FreeBSD 1.x repository somewhere? > > > > cheers, > > > > Pedro. > > http://www.gldis.ca/~gldisater/oldnix/1.1.5.1-RELEASE.tgz Just remember that this code was supposed to be destroyed after the USL lawsuit, so I wouldn't use it for anything you care about. -- Doug White | FreeBSD: The Power to Serve dwhite@gumbysoft.com | www.FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 30 13:51:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6313F37B491 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:51:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web13402.mail.yahoo.com (web13402.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.60]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EBAF043FF9 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:51:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giffunip@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20030630205111.42296.qmail@web13402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [200.91.194.244] by web13402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 22:51:11 CEST Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 22:51:11 +0200 (CEST) From: "=?iso-8859-1?q?Pedro=20F.=20Giffuni?=" To: Doug White , Jeremy Faulkner In-Reply-To: <20030630124515.B31036@carver.gumbysoft.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Where's FreeBSD 1.x? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 20:51:13 -0000 --- Doug White ha scritto: > ... > > Just remember that this code was supposed to be destroyed > after the USL > lawsuit, so I wouldn't use it for anything you care about. > OK, now I see.. Novell permitted a last binary release, but for the sources it's better to start from the ancient UNIX then !! I recall NetBSD did keep the logs of their diffs somewhere (maybe in CVS), and maybe those can be used but I won't look too hard. cheers, Pedro. ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: 6MB di spazio gratuito, 30MB per i tuoi allegati, l'antivirus, il filtro Anti-spam http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mail.yahoo.com/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 30 14:42:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E93137B401; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 14:42:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-64-169-104-32.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [64.169.104.32]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17E4C43FCB; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 14:42:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from rot13.obsecurity.org (rot13.obsecurity.org [10.0.0.5]) by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E256866B9B; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 14:42:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rot13.obsecurity.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id DB2C2BAF; Mon, 30 Jun 2003 14:42:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 14:42:29 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Paul Robinson Message-ID: <20030630214229.GA71963@rot13.obsecurity.org> References: <3EFBFEBD.B8772772@mindspring.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030625214311.00e5e240@localhost> <20030626110336.GW34365@iconoplex.co.uk> <20030626113553.GA53078@packet.org.uk> <20030626122023.GB763@nitro.dk> <20030626124601.GB57378@iconoplex.co.uk> <3EFBFEBD.B8772772@mindspring.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030627133739.035722d0@localhost> <20030628052710.GK29066@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20030630080252.GK57378@iconoplex.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="wac7ysb48OaltWcw" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030630080252.GK57378@iconoplex.co.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: Greg 'groggy' Lehey cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: RMS says: "Use BSD, for goodness sake!" X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 21:42:42 -0000 --wac7ysb48OaltWcw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 09:02:52AM +0100, Paul Robinson wrote: > On Sat, Jun 28, 2003 at 02:57:10PM +0930, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: >=20 > > I note that most of the discussion on this topic was by people who are > > not central to the FreeBSD project. =20 >=20 > That's because the people central to the project have better things to do= =20 > with their time than look at what the actual effort is to remove GPL code= =20 > `from the base of FreeBSD. For those of us that looked the answer was "no= t=20 > much". Sorry if you think that's a useless answer, but personally I found= it=20 > quite revealing. Great, please send us your patches when they're ready! Kris --wac7ysb48OaltWcw Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/AK7FWry0BWjoQKURAvrcAJ4oBTpBzj9hgs6JxRxjH9588/8hOACg+6k+ /S1VVxDrDY7SPk14Q+6sWJY= =mqPq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --wac7ysb48OaltWcw-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 1 05:22:40 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2E8837B405 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 05:22:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.acecape.com (mail1.acecape.com [66.114.74.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D78A943FB1 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 05:22:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fran@natserv.net) Received: from p65-147.acedsl.com (p65-147.acedsl.com [66.114.65.147]) by mail1.acecape.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h61CMbgJ020981; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 08:22:38 -0400 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 08:23:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Francisco J Reyes To: Andi Scharfstein In-Reply-To: <23518176406.20030629192038@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <20030701082332.R25257@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20030628140823.U95111@zoraida.natserv.net> <23518176406.20030629192038@myrealbox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: FreeBSD Chat List Subject: Re: List of computer languages X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 12:22:40 -0000 On Sun, 29 Jun 2003, Andi Scharfstein wrote: > How about http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CategoryLanguage or Thanks. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 1 05:31:23 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B92E337B412 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 05:31:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout02.sul.t-online.com (mailout02.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.17]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED39243FF7 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 05:31:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from calvin8@t-online.de) Received: from fwd00.aul.t-online.de by mailout02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 19XKI2-0006Pd-06; Tue, 01 Jul 2003 14:31:18 +0200 Received: from 80.130.244.186 (bRJ6rgZ1rehfUvHxZ2uczr2P1hEMoxlSS6iZylSIw9su6Zc1MIk7o8@[80.130.244.186]) by fwd00.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 19XKHb-22uLR20; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 14:30:51 +0200 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 14:32:21 +0200 From: calvin8@t-online.de (Andi Scharfstein) X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.61) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <68674683031.20030701143221@myrealbox.com> To: Francisco J Reyes In-Reply-To: <20030701082332.R25257@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20030628140823.U95111@zoraida.natserv.net> <20030629110424.R4549@zoraida.natserv.net> <23518176406.20030629192038@myrealbox.com> <20030701082332.R25257@zoraida.natserv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Seen: false X-ID: bRJ6rgZ1rehfUvHxZ2uczr2P1hEMoxlSS6iZylSIw9su6Zc1MIk7o8 cc: FreeBSD Chat List Subject: Re: List of computer languages X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Andi Scharfstein List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 12:31:24 -0000 Hi, >> How about http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CategoryLanguage ? > Thanks. Glad to help :) -- Bye: Andi S. mailto:nullpointer@myrealbox.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 1 13:12:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1568237B401 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:12:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from krell.webweaver.net (krell.webweaver.net [64.124.90.11]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 765DC44055 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:12:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@unixgirl.com) Received: from vorlon1.webweaver.net (vorlon1.webweaver.net [67.112.21.26]) by krell.webweaver.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2655D20F05 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:12:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 13:12:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: The Mailing List search engine sems broken :( X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 20:12:03 -0000 Um.. Is it just me or is the FreeBSD Mailing List search engine broken? No matter what I search for and no matter what list I select it says "not found" http://www.freebsd.org/search/search.html :( Nicole The archives freebsd-questions, freebsd-isp, freebsd-performance and freebsd-stable contain the following items relevant to `kernel': Didn't get what you expected? Look here for searching hints. Return to the search page Nothing found The archives freebsd-questions, freebsd-isp, freebsd-performance and freebsd-stable contain the following items relevant to `help': Didn't get what you expected? Look here for searching hints. Return to the search page Nothing found. The archives freebsd-questions, freebsd-isp, freebsd-performance and freebsd-stable contain the following items relevant to `freebsd': Didn't get what you expected? Look here for searching hints. Return to the search page Nothing found. -- ******* |\ __ /| (`\ ******* * * | o_o |__ ) ) * * * * // \\ * * * Blessed Be! | Powered by FreeBSD * ----------------------(((---(((-------------------------------- http://www.unixgirl.com - http://www.deviantimages.com http://www.drumslayer.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams." --Willy Wonka, Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. "Witchcraft is in essence the worship of the powers of this world, beautiful and terrible, but all in a circle under the turning sky that is the One." -C.A. Burland, "Echoes of Magic" "Connecting with energy is something humans have to be open to and talking about and expecting, otherwise the whole human race can go back to pretending that life is about power over others and exploiting the planet. If we go back to doing this, then we won't survive." -James Redfield, "The Celestine Prophecy" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 1 13:23:09 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738E737B401 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:23:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE95543FE9 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:23:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mail.pcnet.com (8.12.8/8.12.1) with ESMTP id h61KN7AI015720; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 16:23:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 16:23:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Eischen X-Sender: eischen@pcnet5.pcnet.com To: Nicole In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The Mailing List search engine sems broken :( X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: deischen@freebsd.org List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 20:23:09 -0000 On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, Nicole wrote: > > Um.. Is it just me or is the FreeBSD Mailing List search engine broken? > > No matter what I search for and no matter what list I select it says "not > found" Yep, it's borken. I noticed this earlier. That search engine never really gave me good results anyways; perhaps it's better to be forced to use google. -- Dan Eischen From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 1 20:51:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D889C37B401 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 20:51:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web13406.mail.yahoo.com (web13406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.64]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 79A4043FF5 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 20:51:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giffunip@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20030702035143.14462.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [200.91.194.155] by web13406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 02 Jul 2003 05:51:43 CEST Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 05:51:43 +0200 (CEST) From: "=?iso-8859-1?q?Pedro=20F.=20Giffuni?=" To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: RMS says: "Use BSD, for goodness sake!" X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 03:51:45 -0000 Hi; Before this thread finishes it's natural cycle... I wanted to point out an important issue. The one GPL'd code that we include and that is more poisonous than any other is GNU readline. GNU readline FYI is a library but it is not covered by the LGPL but by the GPL (this was done on purpose) which means that any utility that uses it "borks" into GPL'd. The worst of all is that the code is good and a replacement is not easy :(. Rich Salz had something similar which I sent to some BSD people but it didn't catch much interest. cheers, Pedro. ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: 6MB di spazio gratuito, 30MB per i tuoi allegati, l'antivirus, il filtro Anti-spam http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mail.yahoo.com/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 1 23:43:39 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB31937B401 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 23:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anchor-post-39.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-39.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A2B944027 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2003 23:43:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kevin@caomhin.demon.co.uk) Received: from caomhin.demon.co.uk ([62.49.21.186]) by anchor-post-39.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 19XbL8-0001EA-0U for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 02 Jul 2003 07:43:38 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 07:43:16 +0100 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: Kevin Golding References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.01 U Subject: Re: The Mailing List search engine sems broken :( X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 06:43:40 -0000 In article , Nicole writes >Um.. Is it just me or is the FreeBSD Mailing List search engine broken? > > No matter what I search for and no matter what list I select it says "not >found" > > >http://www.freebsd.org/search/search.html > > > :( Try starting from the list admin pages: Find the list you want and then look at it's archives, there's a search box at the top. If you don't know what list you're after then Google Groups is probably better. Kevin -- kevin@caomhin.demon.co.uk From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 2 03:15:18 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABD5B37B401 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 03:15:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hannibal.servitor.co.uk (hannibal.servitor.co.uk [195.188.15.48]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0349943FEC for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 03:15:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@hannibal.servitor.co.uk) Received: from paul by hannibal.servitor.co.uk with local (Exim 4.14) id 19XeeC-0006Nu-9g; Wed, 02 Jul 2003 11:15:32 +0100 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:15:32 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Message-ID: <20030702101532.GG17757@iconoplex.co.uk> References: <20030702035143.14462.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030702035143.14462.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: Paul Robinson cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RMS says: "Use BSD, for goodness sake!" X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 10:15:19 -0000 On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 05:51:43AM +0200, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > The one GPL'd code that we include and that is more poisonous > than any other is GNU readline. GNU readline FYI is a library > but it is not covered by the LGPL but by the GPL (this was done > on purpose) which means that any utility that uses it "borks" > into GPL'd. OK, a bit of a backtrack here, but at least one person who has a better handle on dependancies within the project on GPL than me suggested readline wasn't used, and could be rm'ed with little effort or impact on FBSD. Just to wrap it up completely, and kill this thread finally (I actually had a sleepless night the other night because of this thread - well, mainly the e-mail I got, so I for one look forward to it's death) I think it might be useful to have a recap of the cycle it underwent: - Somebody suggested RMS was making spurious claims about GPL, BSD, Unix, etc. and that we may wish to clarify the FreeBSD position with regards to the GPL code used. Perhaps, remove the GPL code? What would the impact be? Would it even be possible? - A list was drawn up of code in 4-STABLE that was in base and GPL'ed. These were in /usr/src/contrib and /usr/src/gnu - I noted there were only 35 or so apps, and several people agreed that all but a few of them could probably get rm'ed, moved to ports, etc. if it became policy for FBSD to remove GPL. This was a kind of "what will break if I were to type 'rm -rf /usr/src/gnu; cd /usr/src; make buildkern KERNCONF=mykernconf' ?" exercise. Not a policy decision - just a clarification of the issues. - Confusion reigned for a while over some apps (specifcially awk) where the removal would break things including POSIX compliance. Then somebody pointed out that in -CURRENT, awk is not GPL, it's one-true-awk which is BSD, so in this case, the argument was pointless. Next time, I'll remember to check -CURRENT and not -STABLE. :-) - There was some discussion about porting some apps over from OpenBSD based on their non-GPL issues, but some work would have to be done to bring their version up to the FBSD specification (e.g. man) - Everybody agrees that moving away from gcc is a nightmare - I got lots of highly abusive e-mail off-list To be honest, I think it's a useful exercise that got out of control because of people's ideological or passionate beliefs. The impact in -CURRENT of typing 'rm -rf /usr/src/gnu' is relatively low for most users who don't write code. If you are developing, need CVS and gcc, you can already get it all out of ports. For the typical web-server install, it wouldn't be noticed. Well, ports would be useless, so you'd need to install Apache as a package, but that's no bad thing for most admins. So, that's it really. You can have a GPL-free FreeBSD with some drawbacks. man won't have all the functionality you might use, you'll need to use tendra or the intel compiler (the latter having significant performance advantages over gcc) if you want to develop, and you might have a problem submitting patches or CVS'ing code. Some other stuff will disappear, but you can grab it out of ports if you need it. But for a non-developer profile, GPL-free FBSD is something that doesn't need patches (I was very confused by the calls for patches - do you really want one for an rm? Crikey...) and can be put in place quickly. On the bottom of my now rather extensive todo-list is to tinker with this some more, and perhaps others will too - in fact I know others will too. I'm certainly hoping that people will stop with the off-list flame fest (don't move it on the list - just stop it), I can get some more sleep, the position is clarified, and the goal of moving to GPL is something that is in the hands of each individual admin, and with some work could be quickly made into the standard for the project. Finally, the issue for me here is not that the GPL is bad or wrong - it's that BSD is better. :-) Now, DIE THREAD! DIE! DIE! DIE! . I'd much rather talk about those laser-wielding polar bears for a bit. -- Paul Robinson From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 2 03:43:58 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAF1337B401 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 03:43:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (storm.FreeBSD.org.uk [194.242.157.42]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A321843F3F for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 03:43:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@grondar.org) Received: from storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (Ugrondar@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h62AhuVm014918; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:43:56 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.org) Received: (from Ugrondar@localhost)h62Ahtna014917; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:43:56 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: storm.FreeBSD.org.uk: Ugrondar set sender to mark@grondar.org using -f Received: from grondar.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])h62Aggig032205; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:42:42 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.org) From: Mark Murray Message-Id: <200307021042.h62Aggig032205@grimreaper.grondar.org> To: Paul Robinson In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 02 Jul 2003 11:15:32 BST." <20030702101532.GG17757@iconoplex.co.uk> Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 11:42:41 +0100 Sender: mark@grondar.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,FROM_NO_LOWER,IN_REP_TO, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: RMS says: "Use BSD, for goodness sake!" X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 10:43:59 -0000 Paul Robinson writes: > To be honest, I think it's a useful exercise that got out of control because > of people's ideological or passionate beliefs. The impact in -CURRENT of > typing 'rm -rf /usr/src/gnu' is relatively low for most users who don't > write code. You'd lose the ability to read man pages. This is not low-impact. > Now, DIE THREAD! DIE! DIE! DIE! . I'd much rather talk > about those laser-wielding polar bears for a bit. If you sail into a battle-zone with guns blazing, expect to have return fire. M -- Mark Murray iumop ap!sdn w,I idlaH From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 2 08:48:27 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED9DE37B401 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:48:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E606B43F3F for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:48:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kevin@caomhin.demon.co.uk) Received: from caomhin.demon.co.uk ([62.49.21.186]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 19XjqH-000Gi7-0W for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 02 Jul 2003 16:48:22 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 16:46:24 +0100 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: Kevin Golding References: <20030702035143.14462.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> <20030702101532.GG17757@iconoplex.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <20030702101532.GG17757@iconoplex.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.01 U Subject: Animal crackers X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:48:28 -0000 In article <20030702101532.GG17757@iconoplex.co.uk>, Paul Robinson writes >Now, DIE THREAD! DIE! DIE! DIE! . I'd much rather talk >about those laser-wielding polar bears for a bit. That's it, I'm reporting you for animal cruelty! The dog doesn't even know what a license is let alone care which one you're using. Now laser wielding polar bears, you could 'ave someone's eye out with one of those. Definitely should be licensed, and make the test pretty tough too; we don't want just any ol' polar bear wielding a laser, that'd be silly! Kevin, well he did ask From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 2 09:29:45 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9344537B404 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:29:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pilchuck.reedmedia.net (pilchuck.reedmedia.net [209.166.74.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B80A243F85 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:29:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from reed by pilchuck.reedmedia.net with local-esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 19XkUG-0004nB-00; Wed, 02 Jul 2003 09:29:40 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:29:39 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200307021042.h62Aggig032205@grimreaper.grondar.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: replacement for nroff (was Re: RMS says: "Use BSD, for goodness sake!") X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 16:29:45 -0000 On Wed, 2 Jul 2003, Mark Murray wrote: > You'd lose the ability to read man pages. This is not low-impact. I have been trying old awf and cawf. cawf is a C version of Henry Spencer's Amazingly Workable (text) Formatter by Vic Abell. I have built it under NetBSD. It supports various nroff and -man, -me and -ms, but it needs various additions to its macros. For example, it needs: .It Pa -- it wants lowercase .it .Xr .Sh -- it wants .SH .Nm .Dt -- it wants .DT .Dd .Nd -- it wants .ND .Op Fl .Bl The 4.10 version I have been looking at is from http://www.tux.org/pub/sites/vic.cc.purdue.edu/ You can find man pages for cawf via google. http://minix1.bio.umass.edu/pub/minix.2.0/2.0.0/wwwman/man1/nroff.1.html Also look at http://www.moon-soft.com/program/C/C2/C-43/CAWF407/00DIFFS Is anyone interested in helping with improving this? Also I read that some old freeware versions of nroff are available (probably for old MSDOS). Does anyone have any URLs for these? Jeremy C. Reed http://www.reedmedia.net/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 2 09:39:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1483937B401; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:39:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h132-197-179-27.gte.com (h132-197-179-27.gte.com [132.197.179.27]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7471543FDD; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:38:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ak03@gte.com) Received: from kanpc.gte.com (ak03@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h62GcuTO018314; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:38:56 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ak03@kanpc.gte.com) Received: (from ak03@localhost) by kanpc.gte.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h62Gcu1l018313; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:38:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:38:55 -0400 From: Alexander Kabaev To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20030702123855.0a3534f5.ak03@gte.com> In-Reply-To: <3F0306FE.37E35D77@mindspring.com> References: <000b01c3408e$b9fd1310$2401a8c0@xoanan> <3F0306FE.37E35D77@mindspring.com> Organization: Verizon Data Services X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.0claws25 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org cc: Eivind Hestnes Subject: Re: Support for XFS in FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 16:39:00 -0000 On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 09:23:26 -0700 Terry Lambert wrote: > Eivind Hestnes wrote: > > Is XFS ported to FreeBSD? If not, what's the status? > > [ Let's assume this isn't the usual XFS troll. Here is all the > historical information about all previous discussions. If you > want to discuss this yet again because you are unwilling to > take this at face value, and are unwilling to read the mailing > list archives, followups are set to FreeBSD-chat. All replies > to all followups posted to another FreeBSD-* list will be > redirected to FreeBSD-chat ] > > -- > > It is not ported. > > Some people have tried to start a porting project in the past, > but that project has so far failed to produce anything, even a > simple port of the "newfs" program. Well, that is a bit unfair. We haven't _released_ anything, but mkfs.xfs port was something we did first, along with the rest of xfsprogs suite. The XFS module was compiling and linking and even was able to mount XFS filesystem all the way with initial (clean) journal check, root inode retrieval, etc. Unfortunately the lack of available time resulted in this project slipping through cracks. There seems to be a new interest in getting it off the ground though. > Note: SCO is suing people who have touched Linux code with code > from commercial OS's derived from System V. SGI's IRIX, from > which XFS comes, is derived from System V, so there is some legal > risk involved to anyone doing a port: SCO may sue you, too. I > don't know if this effects the projects previous statements. > True, this is a danger. There was a certain amount of similarity in XFS sources between FreeBSD kernel internals and Irix interfaces which arguably can be traced to common Unix roots of both systems. SCO might consider XFS theirs some day :) -- Alexander Kabaev From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 2 12:34:05 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE99137B401 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:34:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.des.no (37.80-203-228.nextgentel.com [80.203.228.37]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A63643FA3 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:34:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: by smtp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 666) id 4ED3E9595C; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 21:34:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from dwp.des.no (dwp.des.no [10.0.0.4]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 833CE95958; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 21:34:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 56BEAB823; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 21:34:00 +0200 (CEST) To: Paul Robinson References: <20030702035143.14462.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> <20030702101532.GG17757@iconoplex.co.uk> From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 21:34:00 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20030702101532.GG17757@iconoplex.co.uk> (Paul Robinson's message of "Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:15:32 +0100") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.2 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.0 required=8.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: "Pedro F. Giffuni" cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RMS says: "Use BSD, for goodness sake!" X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 19:34:06 -0000 Paul Robinson writes: > To be honest, I think it's a useful exercise that got out of control beca= use > of people's ideological or passionate beliefs. The impact in -CURRENT of > typing 'rm -rf /usr/src/gnu' is relatively low for most users who don't > write code. "inability to upgrade" is pretty bad... DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 2 20:51:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2271F37B401 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:51:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from papagena.rockefeller.edu (papagena.rockefeller.edu [129.85.41.71]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B30743FBD for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:51:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@papagena.rockefeller.edu) Received: (from rsidd@localhost) by papagena.rockefeller.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h633p2s20733; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 23:51:02 -0400 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 23:51:02 -0400 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Paul Robinson Message-ID: <20030702235102.A20726@online.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.20-18.7smp i686 cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 03:51:13 -0000 Paul Robinson wrote: > - Somebody suggested RMS was making spurious claims about GPL, BSD, Unix, > etc. and that we may wish to clarify the FreeBSD position with regards to > the GPL code used. He said something about "the GNU system running with the Hurd and two BSD kernels." As has already been pointed out by leafy in this thread, he was probably talking about Debian GNU/FreeBSD and Debian GNU/NetBSD, which are a combination of BSD kernels with Debian userlands -- not about the BSD systems as such. He is on record many times as saying that the names GNU/FreeBSD, GNU/Solaris etc are not appropriate even if they include some GNU tools in their distribution. The whole thread is based on an out-of-context quote. Rahul From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 2 22:44:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48C5637B401 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 22:44:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from priv-edtnes11-hme0.telusplanet.net (outbound03.telus.net [199.185.220.222]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3875543F93 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 22:44:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from viktorlazlo@telus.net) Received: from njamn8or ([64.180.162.182]) by priv-edtnes11-hme0.telusplanet.netESMTP <20030703054400.CEMD22069.priv-edtnes11-hme0.telusplanet.net@njamn8or>; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 23:44:00 -0600 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 22:43:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Viktor Lazlo X-X-Sender: viktorlazlo@njamn8or.no-ip.org To: Rahul Siddharthan In-Reply-To: <20030702235102.A20726@online.fr> Message-ID: <20030702224309.O54307@njamn8or.no-ip.org> References: <20030702235102.A20726@online.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: your mail X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 05:44:02 -0000 On Wed, 2 Jul 2003, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > The whole thread is based on an out-of-context quote. Reason enough to let it die a richly deserved death. Cheers, Viktor From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 2 23:26:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D43C37B401 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 23:26:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.188]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A411943FEA for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2003 23:26:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38lc10o.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.4.24] helo=mindspring.com) by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19XxXc-00036R-00; Wed, 02 Jul 2003 23:26:01 -0700 Message-ID: <3F03CC34.51CE2990@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 23:24:52 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Zhihui Zhang References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4e443e2a1894d3b82517e719127120a06667c3043c0873f7e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: Sam Leffler cc: Eivind Hesatnes cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Support for XFS in FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 06:26:13 -0000 Zhihui Zhang wrote: > Suppose someone ported XFS to FreeBSD, then what liscence can you use > without causing any legal trouble? You must use GNU, but the interface > code (VFS/vnode, bio, vnode, etc.) are already under BSD liscence. Can > one KLD program contain code using different liscences? Hi. I'm replying on -chat, just like I warned I would; if you don't read the archives, you are bound to repeat them. The answer to the second question is "Yes". The answer to the first question is that GPL'ed code must remain GPL'ed, and you cannot mix it in a binary *which you distribute*, due to clause 6 of the GPL. As long as the kernel module is separate from the kernel, once can have a BSD license, and the other can have a GPL license. For filesystems, this means you can't make a CDROM that has a BSD licensed kernel with GPL'ed root FS support in it. This means, for XFS, that you can't boot off it by default, unless you rewrite enough of it to allow the boot loader to read the rest of it as a kernel loadable module. -- Terry From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 02:18:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9932E37B401 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 02:18:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-out6.blueyonder.co.uk (smtp-out6.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.213.9]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5386843FE9 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2003 02:18:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sphaleotas@blueyonder.co.uk) Received: from pbncomputer ([62.30.24.91]) by smtp-out6.blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:18:27 +0100 Message-ID: <002701c34143$bb178180$5b181e3e@pbncomputer> From: "Michael Carr" To: "FreeBSD Chat" References: <20030702235102.A20726@online.fr> <20030702224309.O54307@njamn8or.no-ip.org> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:13:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jul 2003 09:18:28.0078 (UTC) FILETIME=[102270E0:01C34144] Subject: Re: your mail X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:18:31 -0000 Just for the record ;-) ... My implied suggestion was that Stallman is disingenuously trying to make capital out of the SCO controversy by neglecting to mention the provisions of copyleft specific to the GNU Project. The quote was an _obvious_ fabrication, but as I now understand, whimsy is a dangerous thing. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Viktor Lazlo" To: "Rahul Siddharthan" Cc: Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 6:43 AM Subject: Re: your mail | | | On Wed, 2 Jul 2003, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: | | > The whole thread is based on an out-of-context quote. | | Reason enough to let it die a richly deserved death. | | Cheers, | | Viktor From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 17:30:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A5BA37B401 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:30:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (phoenix.welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0BF744030 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:30:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@welearn.com.au) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h650ULgC006945 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 10:30:21 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h650ULIO006944 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 10:30:21 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sue) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 10:30:20 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030705103020.W96512@welearn.com.au> Mail-Followup-To: Sue Blake , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i X-PGP-Fingerprint: E9A3 7B97 C563 DBB1 979E BC04 D2A2 9DA3 1274 7885 Subject: Daemon feet X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 00:30:30 -0000 Has Beastie ever been seen without his shoes? -- Regards, -*Sue*- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 19:43:45 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C501037B401 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mooseriver.com (adsl-68-73-92-121.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net [68.73.92.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 591B543FF5 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:43:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: by mooseriver.com (Postfix, from userid 200) id F04CF124; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:43:44 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:43:44 -0500 From: Josef Grosch To: Sue Blake , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030705024344.GB40409@mooseriver.com> References: <20030705103020.W96512@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030705103020.W96512@welearn.com.au> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Re: Daemon feet X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 02:43:46 -0000 On Sat, Jul 05, 2003 at 10:30:20AM +1000, Sue Blake wrote: > Has Beastie ever been seen without his shoes? Yes, they are cloven. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 5.1 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | www.bafug.org From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 20:31:09 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1D4837B401 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 20:31:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 540BA44008 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 20:31:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id E96FC51A9E; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 13:01:05 +0930 (CST) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 13:01:05 +0930 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: Doug White Message-ID: <20030705033105.GD366@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20030630042815.96705.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> <20030630150010.GA68098@constans.gldis.ca> <20030630124515.B31036@carver.gumbysoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="IMjqdzrDRly81ofr" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030630124515.B31036@carver.gumbysoft.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 cc: "Pedro F. Giffuni" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Where's FreeBSD 1.x? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 03:31:10 -0000 --IMjqdzrDRly81ofr Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Monday, 30 June 2003 at 12:45:44 -0700, Doug White wrote: > On Mon, 30 Jun 2003, Jeremy Faulkner wrote: > >> On Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 06:28:15AM +0200, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: >>> Hi; >>> >>> I was looking at the "ancient" UNIX code and there are some good >>> things there... Is there a FreeBSD 1.x repository somewhere? >>> >>> cheers, >>> >>> Pedro. >> >> http://www.gldis.ca/~gldisater/oldnix/1.1.5.1-RELEASE.tgz > > Just remember that this code was supposed to be destroyed after the USL > lawsuit, so I wouldn't use it for anything you care about. Since the release of "Ancient UNIX" under the BSD license, there's nothing to worry about. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers --IMjqdzrDRly81ofr Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/BkZ5IubykFB6QiMRAmmcAJwPdH+RJQVzpIIW4zWEHHhQKdlr/gCeMPTz woLbbXso4nHPr7Ih16YTR7A= =Lt/j -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --IMjqdzrDRly81ofr-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 20:45:58 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0064C37B401 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 20:45:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web13406.mail.yahoo.com (web13406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.64]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3120A44017 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 20:45:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from giffunip@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20030705034557.85069.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [200.91.194.8] by web13406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 05 Jul 2003 05:45:56 CEST Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 05:45:56 +0200 (CEST) From: "=?iso-8859-1?q?Pedro=20F.=20Giffuni?=" To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey In-Reply-To: <20030705033105.GD366@wantadilla.lemis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Where's FreeBSD 1.x? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 03:45:58 -0000 Hmm... No need to ask a lawyer or anything? Wouldn't the fact that those files exist mean that someone was breaking the law at a certain moment?? Perhaps this is a job for the FreeBSD Foundation. Since I knew FreeBSD only when 2.0.5 Release was made, I have no idea about the details.. did freeBSD developers use something like CVS, perhaps SCCS ? It would be nice to have this old history available.. for hobbyist value. cheers, Pedro. --- Greg 'groggy' Lehey ha scritto: > On Monday, 30 June 2003 at 12:45:44 -0700, Doug White wrote: > > On Mon, 30 Jun 2003, Jeremy Faulkner wrote: > > > >> On Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 06:28:15AM +0200, Pedro F. Giffuni > wrote: > >>> Hi; > >>> > >>> I was looking at the "ancient" UNIX code and there are > some good > >>> things there... Is there a FreeBSD 1.x repository > somewhere? > >>> > >>> cheers, > >>> > >>> Pedro. > >> > >> http://www.gldis.ca/~gldisater/oldnix/1.1.5.1-RELEASE.tgz > > > > Just remember that this code was supposed to be destroyed > after the USL > > lawsuit, so I wouldn't use it for anything you care about. > > Since the release of "Ancient UNIX" under the BSD license, > there's > nothing to worry about. > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address and phone numbers > > ATTACHMENT part 2 application/pgp-signature ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: 6MB di spazio gratuito, 30MB per i tuoi allegati, l'antivirus, il filtro Anti-spam http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mail.yahoo.com/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 21:03:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 931BF37B401 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:03:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 884BC43FE0 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:03:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id A272051A9E; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 13:33:37 +0930 (CST) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 13:33:37 +0930 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Message-ID: <20030705040337.GL366@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20030705033105.GD366@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20030705034557.85069.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="9/GiYV45wF7IL3Iq" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030705034557.85069.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Where's FreeBSD 1.x? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 04:03:42 -0000 --9/GiYV45wF7IL3Iq Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [Format recovered--see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html] Quoting broken. On Saturday, 5 July 2003 at 5:45:56 +0200, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > --- Greg 'groggy' Lehey ha scritto:=20 > On Monday, 30 June 2003 at 12:45:44 -0700, Doug White wrote: >>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2003, Jeremy Faulkner wrote: >>>> On Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 06:28:15AM +0200, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: >>>>> Hi; >>>>> >>>>> I was looking at the "ancient" UNIX code and there are some good >>>>> things there... Is there a FreeBSD 1.x repository somewhere? >>>> >>>> http://www.gldis.ca/~gldisater/oldnix/1.1.5.1-RELEASE.tgz >>> >>> Just remember that this code was supposed to be destroyed after >>> the USL lawsuit, so I wouldn't use it for anything you care about. >> >> Since the release of "Ancient UNIX" under the BSD license, there's >> nothing to worry about. > > No need to ask a lawyer or anything? Not if you believe Caldera's release last year. See http://www.lemis.com/grog/UNIX/ for details. Unfortunately, they didn't give us a hardcopy of the release, but so far nobody believes it to be a fake. > Wouldn't the fact that those files exist mean that someone was > breaking the law at a certain moment?? Well, it's not a law. It was a civil action. But any such moment is now long gone. > Since I knew FreeBSD only when 2.0.5 Release was made, I have no > idea about the details.. did freeBSD developers use something like > CVS, perhaps SCCS ? It would be nice to have this old history > available.. for hobbyist value. I'm pretty sure it was CVS in those days. I have sources, but no CVS tree. Does anybody else? Greg -- When replying to this message, please take care not to mutilate the original text. =20 For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/email.html See complete headers for address and phone numbers --9/GiYV45wF7IL3Iq Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/Bk4ZIubykFB6QiMRAr3lAJ4/GxW5E12SCO/L/TyGO0gVMvTPQwCgiLZY Q3s9fyIbCP4MTkZDchZB/2g= =SCv9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --9/GiYV45wF7IL3Iq-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 23:03:33 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF8BE37B401; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:03:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mooseriver.com (adsl-68-73-92-121.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net [68.73.92.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B192A43FEA; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:03:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: by mooseriver.com (Postfix, from userid 200) id EA97F1D9; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 01:03:29 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 01:03:29 -0500 From: Josef Grosch To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey Message-ID: <20030705060329.GB41578@mooseriver.com> References: <20030705033105.GD366@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20030705034557.85069.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> <20030705040337.GL366@wantadilla.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030705040337.GL366@wantadilla.lemis.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: "Pedro F. Giffuni" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Where's FreeBSD 1.x? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 06:03:34 -0000 On Sat, Jul 05, 2003 at 01:33:37PM +0930, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > [Format recovered--see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html] > > Quoting broken. > > On Saturday, 5 July 2003 at 5:45:56 +0200, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > > --- Greg 'groggy' Lehey ha scritto: > > On Monday, 30 June 2003 at 12:45:44 -0700, Doug White wrote: > >>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2003, Jeremy Faulkner wrote: > >>>> On Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 06:28:15AM +0200, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > >>>>> Hi; > >>>>> > >>>>> I was looking at the "ancient" UNIX code and there are some good > >>>>> things there... Is there a FreeBSD 1.x repository somewhere? > >>>> > >>>> http://www.gldis.ca/~gldisater/oldnix/1.1.5.1-RELEASE.tgz > >>> > >>> Just remember that this code was supposed to be destroyed after > >>> the USL lawsuit, so I wouldn't use it for anything you care about. > >> > >> Since the release of "Ancient UNIX" under the BSD license, there's > >> nothing to worry about. > > > > No need to ask a lawyer or anything? > > Not if you believe Caldera's release last year. See > http://www.lemis.com/grog/UNIX/ for details. Unfortunately, they > didn't give us a hardcopy of the release, but so far nobody believes > it to be a fake. Caldera and the The Unix Heritage Society worked out a deal where the 32V license and everything covered by it was made available to hobbyists. I am almost positive that this deal was worked out several years ago. Kirk McKusick was/is selling a 4 CD set of the source code for $100.00. I've got one of these packed away in a closet somewhere. Here are a few URL http://www.mckusick.com/csrg/index.html http://www.tuhs.org/ It's interesting to note that this set contains the complete source code to 4.3tahoe, 4.3reno, 4.4, 4.4BSD-Lite1, net.1, net.2, and 4.4BSD-Lite2 A clever person with a bit of perl could figure out what the 7 tainted files are. > > > Wouldn't the fact that those files exist mean that someone was > > breaking the law at a certain moment?? > > Well, it's not a law. It was a civil action. But any such moment is > now long gone. > > > Since I knew FreeBSD only when 2.0.5 Release was made, I have no > > idea about the details.. did freeBSD developers use something like > > CVS, perhaps SCCS ? It would be nice to have this old history > > available.. for hobbyist value. > > I'm pretty sure it was CVS in those days. I have sources, but no CVS > tree. Does anybody else? I am almost positive there was a CVS tree in those days. I remember learning how to use CVS back then and using some ones email instructions, Terry Lambert?, on how to use CVS. I also remember Jordan making a comment at a BAFUG meeting about sucking the CVS tree across a modem when he was still living in Ireland. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 5.1 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | www.bafug.org From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 23:28:55 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B036437B401 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:28:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D04184400B for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:28:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 9B31951A9E; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 15:58:51 +0930 (CST) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 15:58:51 +0930 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: Josef Grosch Message-ID: <20030705062851.GV366@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20030705033105.GD366@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20030705034557.85069.qmail@web13406.mail.yahoo.com> <20030705040337.GL366@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20030705060329.GB41578@mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="BlkQeOBdElZ1aiuH" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030705060329.GB41578@mooseriver.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 cc: "Pedro F. Giffuni" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Where's FreeBSD 1.x? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 06:28:56 -0000 --BlkQeOBdElZ1aiuH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Saturday, 5 July 2003 at 1:03:29 -0500, Josef Grosch wrote: > On Sat, Jul 05, 2003 at 01:33:37PM +0930, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: >> [Format recovered--see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html] >> >> Quoting broken. >> >> On Saturday, 5 July 2003 at 5:45:56 +0200, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: >>> --- Greg 'groggy' Lehey ha scritto: >>> On Monday, 30 June 2003 at 12:45:44 -0700, Doug White wrote: >>>>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2003, Jeremy Faulkner wrote: >>>>>> On Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 06:28:15AM +0200, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: >>>>>>> Hi; >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I was looking at the "ancient" UNIX code and there are some good >>>>>>> things there... Is there a FreeBSD 1.x repository somewhere? >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.gldis.ca/~gldisater/oldnix/1.1.5.1-RELEASE.tgz >>>>> >>>>> Just remember that this code was supposed to be destroyed after >>>>> the USL lawsuit, so I wouldn't use it for anything you care about. >>>> >>>> Since the release of "Ancient UNIX" under the BSD license, there's >>>> nothing to worry about. >>> >>> No need to ask a lawyer or anything? >> >> Not if you believe Caldera's release last year. See >> http://www.lemis.com/grog/UNIX/ for details. Unfortunately, they >> didn't give us a hardcopy of the release, but so far nobody believes >> it to be a fake. > > Caldera and the The Unix Heritage Society worked out a deal where the 32V > license and everything covered by it was made available to hobbyists. I am > almost positive that this deal was worked out several years ago. If you follow the link above, you'll find the details. It was January last year. > It's interesting to note that this set contains the complete source code to > 4.3tahoe, 4.3reno, 4.4, 4.4BSD-Lite1, net.1, net.2, and 4.4BSD-Lite2 > > A clever person with a bit of perl could figure out what the 7 tainted files > are. It's easier than that: IIRC they're all in sys/kern, and you just need to see what has changed significantly between 4.4BSD and 4.4BSD-Lite. kern_clock.c is one of them. From the SCCS logs: D 8.3 93/09/23 15:27:32 bostic 130 129 00021/00023/00474 changes for 4.4BSD-Lite requested by USL I looked for that string in all the SCCS files, but there were more than 6 files, 38 to be exact. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers --BlkQeOBdElZ1aiuH Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/BnAjIubykFB6QiMRAoZ4AJ9KDdzwPvXatTI6hzOFW6dZHUNCgACggrxx O4f3zQyjyS/Me83VuSxz+Aw= =Hq/d -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --BlkQeOBdElZ1aiuH-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 5 01:51:15 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 188BC37B401 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 01:51:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (phoenix.welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23CA543FE3 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 01:51:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@welearn.com.au) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) h658pAgC011552; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 18:51:10 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h658p7pr011551; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 18:51:07 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sue) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 18:51:06 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Josef Grosch Message-ID: <20030705185106.X96512@welearn.com.au> Mail-Followup-To: Sue Blake , Josef Grosch , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <20030705103020.W96512@welearn.com.au> <20030705024344.GB40409@mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20030705024344.GB40409@mooseriver.com>; from jgrosch@mooseriver.com on Fri, Jul 04, 2003 at 09:43:44PM -0500 X-PGP-Fingerprint: E9A3 7B97 C563 DBB1 979E BC04 D2A2 9DA3 1274 7885 cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Daemon feet X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 08:51:15 -0000 On Fri, Jul 04, 2003 at 09:43:44PM -0500, Josef Grosch wrote: > On Sat, Jul 05, 2003 at 10:30:20AM +1000, Sue Blake wrote: > > Has Beastie ever been seen without his shoes? > > Yes, they are cloven. Nah, they're too long for that. I suspect something awful would happen if the shoes came off. Could that be the one thing that daemons dread? -- Regards, -*Sue*- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 5 07:02:05 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94AAC37B401 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 07:02:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.fbfguns.com (adsl-64-123-156-89.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net [64.123.156.89]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C18E144035 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 07:02:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@fbfguns.com) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 09:02:04 -0500 Message-ID: <3BD4A5842C8AE2428158AB1EE6DCC37713FEB5@mail.fbfguns.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Daemon feet Thread-Index: AcNC0qOeik3i/u8yQli/qXIuMQeoCwAK1pIA From: "Jason Burgess" To: Subject: RE: Daemon feet X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 14:02:05 -0000 Pandora's Feet Jason Burgess jb@fbfguns.com =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Sue Blake [mailto:sue@welearn.com.au]=20 Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 3:51 AM To: Josef Grosch Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Daemon feet On Fri, Jul 04, 2003 at 09:43:44PM -0500, Josef Grosch wrote: > On Sat, Jul 05, 2003 at 10:30:20AM +1000, Sue Blake wrote: > > Has Beastie ever been seen without his shoes? >=20 > Yes, they are cloven. Nah, they're too long for that. I suspect something awful would happen if the shoes came off. Could that be the one thing that daemons dread? --=20 Regards, -*Sue*- =20 =20 _______________________________________________ freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 5 22:40:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7EAD37B401 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 22:40:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta01-srv.alltel.net (mta01.alltel.net [166.102.165.143]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3FF443FD7 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2003 22:40:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gehicks@alltel.net) Received: from alltel.net ([69.40.18.5]) by mta01-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20030706054015.HLEE26683.mta01-srv.alltel.net@alltel.net>; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 00:40:15 -0500 Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 01:40:15 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) To: Paul Robinson From: Jerry Hicks In-Reply-To: <20030626115133.GA57378@iconoplex.co.uk> Message-Id: <51BB3055-AF74-11D7-9616-0030657B5F1E@alltel.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) cc: Peter McGarvey cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: RMS says: "Use BSD, for goodness sake!" X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 05:40:17 -0000 On Thursday, June 26, 2003, at 07:51 AM, Paul Robinson wrote: > The big one is gcc. Remove that, and we're really rolling. The > alternatives > aren't very good though - TenDRA? I remember the troll a few weeks ago > suggesting this, and maybe it's a plan. The impact would be massive > though. Plan 9's compilers are the closest thing I've seen toward a compiler that could be used to bootstrap a BSD. I believe one would pay a hefty price in terms of optimization however. I actually got the assembler, compiler and linker working on Freebsd a while back. The Plan 9 compiler suite generates COFF output though and I needed to get a crt0 set up for it (which I never did). FreeBSD's IBCS image activator was able to load the images without a hitch. > All those makefiles with command line options to be passed to gcc... Bah, child's play :-) Cheers, Jerry Hicks gehicks@alltel.net