From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 21 02:11:27 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24B7216A4B3; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 02:11:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5107943FD7; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 02:11:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DougB@freebsd.org) Received: from master.dougb.net (12-234-17-181.client.attbi.com[12.234.17.181]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2003092109112501100dnmabe>; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 09:11:25 +0000 Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 02:11:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Barton To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030921020611.T9576@znfgre.qbhto.arg> Organization: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-message-flag: Outlook -- Not just for spreading viruses anymore! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: bind9 port patch for version 9.2.3rc3 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 09:11:27 -0000 For those interested in trying the new delegation-only features in bind 9, I put my patch for the bind9 port up at http://people.freebsd.org/~dougb/ports/bind9.diff Once this new version has a chance to prove itself, I'll be asking portmgr for approval to update the port. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 21 08:33:38 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F36E116A4B3 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 08:33:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp018.mail.yahoo.com (smtp018.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.115]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4319943FF2 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 08:33:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from max@willystudios.com) Received: from host34-123.pool80116.interbusiness.it (HELO vekkio.willystudios.com) (willythemax@80.116.123.34 with login) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 15:33:31 -0000 Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:33:18 +0200 From: Massimiliano Stucchi To: chat@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20030921173318.22158a43.max@willystudios.com> Organization: WillyStudios.com, LTD X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.3claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: BSDCon photos X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 15:33:38 -0000 Hey. If someone is interested, I've put up online the photos I took at BSDCon, along with other pictures of the bay area. Is there a page with references to all attendees' photos ? They did something like this for EuroBSDCon 2002 and it seemed to be cool. Any Idea, any hint ? I'd like to put such link list somewhere on my site if nobody else does. Greetings -- Stucchi Massimiliano | Gruppo Utenti FreeBSD Italia WillyStudios.com | http://www.gufi.org stucchi@willystudios.com | max@gufi.org "People who make no mistakes do not usually make anything" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 21 08:54:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C796416A4B3 for ; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 08:54:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp102.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp102.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [216.136.174.140]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E4B1A43FFB for ; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 08:54:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from max@willystudios.com) Received: from host34-123.pool80116.interbusiness.it (HELO vekkio.willystudios.com) (willythemax@80.116.123.34 with login) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Sep 2003 15:54:53 -0000 Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:54:51 +0200 From: Massimiliano Stucchi To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20030921175451.713897eb.max@willystudios.com> In-Reply-To: <20030921173318.22158a43.max@willystudios.com> References: <20030921173318.22158a43.max@willystudios.com> Organization: WillyStudios.com, LTD X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.3claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: BSDCon photos X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 15:54:54 -0000 On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:33:18 +0200 Massimiliano Stucchi wrote: ops... well... http://www.willystudios.com/foto/2003/bsdcon/ I forgot to post the link... sorry. -- Stucchi Massimiliano | Gruppo Utenti FreeBSD Italia WillyStudios.com | http://www.gufi.org stucchi@willystudios.com | max@gufi.org "People who make no mistakes do not usually make anything" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 21 18:48:50 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BEE316A4B3; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:48:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunjin.wccnet.org (gunjin.wccnet.org [198.111.176.99]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0638843FDF; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:48:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anthony@gunjin.wccnet.org) Received: from gunjin.wccnet.org (localhost.rexroof.com [127.0.0.1]) by gunjin.wccnet.org (8.12.3/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h8M1oKQI072249; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:50:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from anthony@localhost) by gunjin.wccnet.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h8M1oK9n072248; Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:50:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:50:20 -0400 From: Anthony Schneider To: Supote Leelasupphakorn Message-ID: <20030922015020.GA71959@x-anthony.com> References: <20030918110851.55151.qmail@web40611.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030918110851.55151.qmail@web40611.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-database@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org cc: FreeBSD-Chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How DBA solved overload problem ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:48:50 -0000 --HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable one of the first things to look for in database performance tuning is the existence (or nonexistence) of indexes (for SELECTs, that is).=20 they are perhaps the "#1 most used" optimization for relational=20 databases. =20 if you can, i would suggest first tracking down the query text itself. =20 sybase and oracle have mechanisms for logging full query text (oracle=20 to a file, sybase to the sybsecurity database in sysaudits_0x tables), mysql and postgresql most likely have the same features. if not, it would be a trivial task to have query text logged to a file. next, i would determine if there are indeed indexes on the tables in the query. if there are none, try adding some. if there are some, then try adding more. :) (without getting into too much detail, try=20 adding indexes on columns that are commonly joined on or restricted on...primary keys for tables is also nice). -Anthony. On Thu, Sep 18, 2003 at 12:08:51PM +0100, Supote Leelasupphakorn wrote: > To all, >=20 > As a newly DBA, I really don't know how I deal with > this problem. My problem is not so long ago, my database > server seem to overloaded. It take me a time to find > the cause of problem. I realize that some program don't > queried wiht inappropriated SQL statement. I mean they're > not efficient one. >=20 > AS DBA how do you solved this problem? >=20 > Thanks in advance, >=20 > ________________________________________________________________________ > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! > Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" --HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/blVaKUeW47UGY2kRArkjAJwOTQ8Unaa7vIl2IG3SWcPcGl0tqACeNBMw fh0qz+iAg/43rSzAY+rj/ms= =5UAI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 04:42:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 544A816A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 04:42:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kurush.osdn.org.ua (external.osdn.org.ua [212.40.34.156]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04E0743F75 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 04:42:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from never@kurush.osdn.org.ua) Received: from kurush.osdn.org.ua (never@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kurush.osdn.org.ua (8.12.6p2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h8MBfr7t022218 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:41:57 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from never@kurush.osdn.org.ua) Received: (from never@localhost) by kurush.osdn.org.ua (8.12.6p2/8.12.6/Submit) id h8MBfqDw022214 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:41:53 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from never) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:41:51 +0300 From: Alexandr Kovalenko To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030922114150.GB21812@nevermind.kiev.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Subject: Second OSDN Conference in Kiev, Ukraine X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:42:06 -0000 I'm proud to invite all interested in Open Source Software and solutions, which beased on it to Second annual OSDN conference in Kiev, Ukraine, which will take place 27th of September, 2003. If you want to give a report on any topic, you are very welcome. To attend a conference you will need to pay symbolic fee of 20 UAH (~$4). More details on official site: http://conference.osdn.org.ua/en/ -- NEVE-RIPE, will build world for food Ukrainian FreeBSD User Group http://uafug.org.ua/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 07:50:14 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 846CC16A4BF for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 07:50:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.bluecirclesoft.com (cvg-65-26-145-190.cinci.rr.com [65.26.145.190]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F44343FAF for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 07:50:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marc.ramirez@bluecirclesoft.com) Received: from www.bluecirclesoft.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) h8MEoAts027938 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:50:11 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mrami@bluecirclesoft.com) Received: from localhost (mrami@localhost)h8MEo9dC027882 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:50:09 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mrami@bluecirclesoft.com) X-Authentication-Warning: www.bluecirclesoft.com: mrami owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:50:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Marc Ramirez To: chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:50:14 -0000 At 29 1/2, I feel like an old fart, because I'm still using pine. I know, it's horrible of me. But it's the first thing I used when I got to college and got my first UNIX account. And I've never really had a reason to change. But after my Mavis Beacon diatribe the other day, I started feeling ancient :), and I'm wanting to install some sort of spam filter, which I know I'll have trouble integrating with pine. (It's amazing I haven't needed one yet.) So, what are you young hipsters using to read main and filter spam? Thanks, Marc. -- Marc Ramirez Blue Circle Software Corporation 513-688-1070 (main) 513-382-1270 (direct) http://www.bluecirclesoft.com http://www.mrami.com (personal) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 07:56:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7386516A4BF for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 07:56:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns2.gigguardian.com (ns2.gigguardian.com [216.52.21.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FB8E43FEC for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 07:56:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vhm3@gigguardian.com) Received: from gigguardian.com (www@localhost.gigguardian.com [127.0.0.1]) by ns2.gigguardian.com (8.12.8/8.12.6) with SMTP id h8MF8V4n034033; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:08:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vhm3@gigguardian.com) Received: from ip103.palm-valley.sfo.interquest.net ([216.195.235.103]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user vhm3) by webmail.gigguardian.com with HTTP; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:08:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <28213.216.195.235.103.1064243311.squirrel@webmail.gigguardian.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:08:31 -0700 (PDT) From: "Chip McClure" To: In-Reply-To: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.8) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:56:44 -0000 Marc Ramirez said: At 40, I'm using pine (as well as SquirrelMail for the web based remote access) as my MUA. I never bothered to do much of spam filtering on the pine side of things, but SquirrelMail has an excellent Bayes Spam plugin, which does an excellent job, IMO. Spam filtering shouldn't be that big of a deal with pine, however. You could easily write one into your procmail filter, to call up something. And doesn't interfere with pine at all (not even needed in the config for pine). Chip > > At 29 1/2, I feel like an old fart, because I'm still using pine. I > know, it's horrible of me. But it's the first thing I used when I got > to college and got my first UNIX account. And I've never really had a > reason to change. > > But after my Mavis Beacon diatribe the other day, I started feeling > ancient :), and I'm wanting to install some sort of spam filter, which I > know I'll have trouble integrating with pine. (It's amazing I haven't > needed one yet.) > > So, what are you young hipsters using to read main and filter spam? > > Thanks, > > Marc. > > -- > Marc Ramirez > Blue Circle Software Corporation > 513-688-1070 (main) > 513-382-1270 (direct) > http://www.bluecirclesoft.com > http://www.mrami.com (personal) > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" ----- Chip McClure Sr. Unix Administrator GigGuardian, Inc. http://www.gigguardian.com/ ----- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 08:02:41 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEA6D16A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from arthur.nitro.dk (port324.ds1-khk.adsl.cybercity.dk [212.242.113.79]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AAA743FEC for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:02:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from simon@arthur.nitro.dk) Received: by arthur.nitro.dk (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1771C10BFAA; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:02:39 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:02:39 +0200 From: "Simon L. Nielsen" To: Marc Ramirez Message-ID: <20030922150237.GA388@FreeBSD.org> References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="oyUTqETQ0mS9luUI" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:02:42 -0000 --oyUTqETQ0mS9luUI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2003.09.22 10:50:07 -0400, Marc Ramirez wrote: > So, what are you young hipsters using to read main and filter spam? I don't know if I'm a young hipsters, but I use mutt for mail, and SpamAssassin as spam filter. mutt works nicely with PGP/GPG and handles a lot of inboxes very well (procmail sorted mailing lists). When setting up mutt the first time it does require you to spend some time making a good .muttrc (mutt's main config file) that works with your setup, but once you get that done and learn the basic keys, it's very nice. --=20 Simon L. Nielsen FreeBSD Documentation Team --oyUTqETQ0mS9luUI Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/bw8Nh9pcDSc1mlERAjUpAKCM/dtrdIihLZo1ikMkuV3UYGAYdACgp02S OubWkHrcCRdBw3wmCWD6kK4= =keOH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --oyUTqETQ0mS9luUI-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 08:24:39 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 251C416A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:24:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vega.unx.se (h54n7c1o848.bredband.skanova.com [81.225.78.54]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EC7643FAF for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:24:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from many@unx.se) Received: from vega.unx.se (nobody@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vega.unx.se (8.12.8p2/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8MFOJPZ083535; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:24:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by vega.unx.se (8.12.8p2/8.12.8/Submit) id h8MFOIRx083534; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:24:18 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <200309221524.h8MFOIRx083534@vega.unx.se> In-Reply-To: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:24:18 +0200 (CEST) From: many@unx.se To: "Marc Ramirez" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:24:39 -0000 Marc Ramirez wrote: [.....] > So, what are you young hipsters using to read main and filter spam? > > Thanks, > > Marc. Hi! Here is a short and brief description of my system. I'm running Sendmail. Firt I use the access feature to totaly block particular sites which are known to send only spam. ( http://www.sendmail.org/m4/anti_spam.html#access_db ) If they pass this first test they eventually get blocked by four DNSBL checks. ( http://www.sendmail.org/m4/features.html#dnsbl ) Later they get passed to Spamassasin, which acts as a milter to Sendmail. Spamassasin tags all potential spam (nothing is deleted). ( http://www.spamassassin.org/ ) ( http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/spamass-milt ) I use procmail as my local mail delivery agent. Procmail may delete all spamtagged mail (from Spamassasin) but I prefer to have a fast look at each message and delete manually. Procmail also filters all mail with the Anomy sanitizer. The sanitizer drops dangerous attachments and may run the messages through a third party virus scanner. ( http://www.procmail.org/ ) ( http://mailtools.anomy.net/ ) After that it ends up in my inbox. So whatever MUA you use is not that important... you probably want to kill the spam before it reaches you inbox. These are the ports I use: /usr/ports/mail/p5-Mail-SpamAssassin /usr/ports/mail/spamass-milter /usr/ports/mail/procmail /usr/ports/lang/perl5.8 (requiered by latest Anomy) But the answer to your question is Mutt and webmail from my work! I hope you got some ideas! Take care, Mackan From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 08:56:15 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B180F16A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:56:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from priv-edtnes16-hme0.telusplanet.net (outbound04.telus.net [199.185.220.223]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 657F043FE9 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:56:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from viktorlazlo@telus.net) Received: from njamn8or ([207.6.240.165]) by priv-edtnes16-hme0.telusplanet.netESMTP <20030922155614.PIPJ6086.priv-edtnes16-hme0.telusplanet.net@njamn8or>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:56:14 -0600 Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:56:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Viktor Lazlo X-X-Sender: viktorlazlo@njamn8or.no-ip.org To: Marc Ramirez In-Reply-To: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> Message-ID: <20030922085403.H605@njamn8or.no-ip.org> References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:56:15 -0000 On Mon, 22 Sep 2003, Marc Ramirez wrote: > > At 29 1/2, I feel like an old fart, because I'm still using pine. I know, > it's horrible of me. But it's the first thing I used when I got to > college and got my first UNIX account. And I've never really had a reason > to change. > > But after my Mavis Beacon diatribe the other day, I started feeling > ancient :), and I'm wanting to install some sort of spam filter, which I > know I'll have trouble integrating with pine. (It's amazing I haven't > needed one yet.) > > So, what are you young hipsters using to read main and filter spam? Mutt is probably more popular than pine these days as it includes a lot of new features, but filtering for any for users of console mail clients is normally done externally with procmail. Cheers, Viktor From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 09:04:18 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C0D216A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:04:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gateway.nixsys.be (gateway.nixsys.be [195.144.77.33]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A0F143FF5 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:04:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from philip@nixsys.be) Received: from hermes.nixsys.be (hermes.nixsys.be [195.144.77.45]) by gateway.nixsys.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8862AC168 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:04:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: by hermes.nixsys.be (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0B3A154; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:04:16 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:04:16 +0200 From: Philip Paeps To: chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030922160416.GC635@hermes.nixsys.be> Mail-Followup-To: chat@freebsd.org References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: X-Date-in-Rome: ante diem X Kalendas Octobres MMDCCLVI ab Urbe Condida X-PGP-Fingerprint: FA74 3C27 91A6 79D5 F6D3 FC53 BF4B D0E6 049D B879 X-Message-Flag: Get a proper mailclient! Mutt: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Subject: Re: The net fights back X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:04:18 -0000 On 2003-09-19 17:06:59 (+0200), Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > At least one major .no ISP have patched their name server to disregard > Verisign's wildcard entry: > > des@dsa ~% dig @193.75.75.193 verisign-sucks-goats.com Here in Belgium, XS4ALL have also patched things up nicely: % dig @ns.xs4all.be aldjsajsd.com [...] ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 43501 [...] % dig @ns.xs4all.be chaos txt version.bind [...] version.bind. 0S CHAOS TXT "9.2.2-P2" [...] Very nice :-) Trying to convince another ISP as well, but they insist on letting the problem fester for a bit *sigh* - Philip -- Philip Paeps Please don't CC me, I am subscribed to the list. Celibacy is not hereditary. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 09:17:28 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A41FE16A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zulu.bjn.net (ppp17.uuug.ch [193.73.230.17]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C013E43FF2 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:17:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bjn@uuug.ch) Received: from zulu.bjn.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zulu.bjn.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8MGJKro071383; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:19:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from bjn@uuug.ch) Received: (from bruce@localhost) by zulu.bjn.net (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h8MGJKg8071382; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:19:20 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:19:19 +0200 From: "Bruce J. Nikkel" To: Marc Ramirez Message-ID: <20030922161919.GA71251@nikkel.com> References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:17:28 -0000 I use mutt, procmail, and bogofilter (a Bayesian filter by ESR). I have two inboxes, one for incoming good mail, one for incoming spam. Bogofilter decides which is which on arrival. If I get a spam in my good inbox, I hit ESC-S (Spam!) to remove it and update bogofilter. If I get a good mail in my spam inbox, I hit ESC-N (Not spam!) to move it to the good inbox and update bogofilter. I briefly check the spam inbox once a week for false positives. Here are the three lines of my .procmailrc: :0HB: * ? bogofilter -u -2 mail/newspam Here are the 2 lines of my .muttrc: macro index N ":unset wait_key\n|bogofilter -Sn\ns!\n:set wait_key\n" "De-spam a good email in Bogofilter" macro index S ":unset wait_key\n|bogofilter -Ns\ns~/mail/oldspam\n:set wait_key" "En-spam a spam in Bogofilter" bruce On Mon, Sep 22, 2003 at 10:50:07AM -0400, Marc Ramirez wrote: > > At 29 1/2, I feel like an old fart, because I'm still using pine. I know, > it's horrible of me. But it's the first thing I used when I got to > college and got my first UNIX account. And I've never really had a reason > to change. > > But after my Mavis Beacon diatribe the other day, I started feeling > ancient :), and I'm wanting to install some sort of spam filter, which I > know I'll have trouble integrating with pine. (It's amazing I haven't > needed one yet.) > > So, what are you young hipsters using to read main and filter spam? > > Thanks, > > Marc. > > -- > Marc Ramirez > Blue Circle Software Corporation > 513-688-1070 (main) > 513-382-1270 (direct) > http://www.bluecirclesoft.com > http://www.mrami.com (personal) > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- You will lose your present job and have to become a door to door mayonnaise salesman. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 09:22:20 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36B7416A4BF for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:22:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.bluecirclesoft.com (cvg-65-26-145-190.cinci.rr.com [65.26.145.190]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7629643FEA for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:22:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marc.ramirez@bluecirclesoft.com) Received: from www.bluecirclesoft.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) h8MGMEts062235; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:22:14 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mrami@bluecirclesoft.com) Received: from localhost (mrami@localhost)h8MGMDb0062232; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:22:14 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mrami@bluecirclesoft.com) X-Authentication-Warning: www.bluecirclesoft.com: mrami owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:22:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Marc Ramirez To: Chip McClure In-Reply-To: <28213.216.195.235.103.1064243311.squirrel@webmail.gigguardian.com> Message-ID: <20030922121327.R335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> <28213.216.195.235.103.1064243311.squirrel@webmail.gigguardian.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:22:20 -0000 On Mon, 22 Sep 2003, Chip McClure wrote: > Marc Ramirez said: > > At 40, I'm using pine (as well as SquirrelMail for the web based remote > access) as my MUA. I never bothered to do much of spam filtering on the > pine side of things, but SquirrelMail has an excellent Bayes Spam plugin, > which does an excellent job, IMO. Hmm... webmail... > Spam filtering shouldn't be that big of a deal with pine, however. You > could easily write one into your procmail filter, to call up something. > And doesn't interfere with pine at all (not even needed in the config for > pine). Well, the reason I was looking to move away from pine: I'm probably most interested in setting up a Bayesian filter for now. I'm under the impression that, to be most effective, Bayesian filters need to have every mail you receive. Which means there is no more "delete," there is only "move to ham-pile" and "move to spam-pile." So I get bogofilter set up, go to reprogram the "D" key in pine, and humbug! I can't do that. (that's not really the expletive I used, but, hey) Anyways, thank you very much for your input. I'm gonna look at SquirrelMail, too (for different reasons). > Chip > > > > > At 29 1/2, I feel like an old fart, because I'm still using pine. I > > know, it's horrible of me. But it's the first thing I used when I got > > to college and got my first UNIX account. And I've never really had a > > reason to change. > > > > But after my Mavis Beacon diatribe the other day, I started feeling > > ancient :), and I'm wanting to install some sort of spam filter, which I > > know I'll have trouble integrating with pine. (It's amazing I haven't > > needed one yet.) > > > > So, what are you young hipsters using to read main and filter spam? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Marc. > > > > -- > > Marc Ramirez > > Blue Circle Software Corporation > > 513-688-1070 (main) > > 513-382-1270 (direct) > > http://www.bluecirclesoft.com > > http://www.mrami.com (personal) > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > ----- > Chip McClure > Sr. Unix Administrator > GigGuardian, Inc. > > http://www.gigguardian.com/ > ----- > > > -- Marc Ramirez Blue Circle Software Corporation 513-688-1070 (main) 513-382-1270 (direct) http://www.bluecirclesoft.com http://www.mrami.com (personal) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 09:33:28 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E66E316A4E5 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:33:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66E3E43F75 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:33:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.6p3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8MGXKUS054875; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:33:23 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:14:53 +0200 To: Marc Ramirez From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:33:29 -0000 At 10:50 AM -0400 2003/09/22, Marc Ramirez wrote: > But after my Mavis Beacon diatribe the other day, I started feeling > ancient :), and I'm wanting to install some sort of spam filter, which I > know I'll have trouble integrating with pine. (It's amazing I haven't > needed one yet.) > > So, what are you young hipsters using to read main and filter spam? If you want a GUI MUA that incorporates anti-spam features, I highly recommend Eudora 6. It also has a built-in spelling checker (or uses the spelling check service provided by the OS), and many other positive features. Eudora works well as either an IMAP or POP3 client. On the CLI side, you can use SpamAssassin with procmail, and mutt will work well (although pine would probably also work). If you're doing anything related to PGP, I think mutt would be a better choice, since it was designed (by Mike Elkins, the author of the PGP/MIME RFC) to integrate those kinds of features from Day One. Mutt has always worked well as a POP3 client, but used to have poor support for IMAP. I don't know if that has since changed. -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 09:37:20 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 155D416A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:37:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6194143FE9 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:37:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scott@fishballoon.org) Received: from llama.fishballoon.org ([81.104.195.124]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.comESMTP <20030922163636.RUIZ4462.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@llama.fishballoon.org>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:36:36 +0100 Received: from scott by llama.fishballoon.org with local (Exim 4.20) id 1A1TeO-000Izf-DF; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:35:00 +0100 Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:35:00 +0100 From: Scott Mitchell To: Marc Ramirez Message-ID: <20030922163500.GD66910@llama.fishballoon.org> References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> <28213.216.195.235.103.1064243311.squirrel@webmail.gigguardian.com> <20030922121327.R335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030922121327.R335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.8-RELEASE i386 Sender: Scott Mitchell cc: Chip McClure cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:37:20 -0000 On Mon, Sep 22, 2003 at 12:22:12PM -0400, Marc Ramirez wrote: > to have every mail you receive. Which means there is no more "delete," > there is only "move to ham-pile" and "move to spam-pile." So I get > bogofilter set up, go to reprogram the "D" key in pine, and humbug! I > can't do that. (that's not really the expletive I used, but, hey) Not exactly - the message has already been fed through the spam filter by your MTA (be it exim, sendmail, postfix, whatever) and classified as ham or spam. You only need do anything is the filter gets it wrong - then you need to pipe it back into the learner and tell it 'this is spam' (or ham, as the case may be). I have things set up so this is done by bouncing the mail to a magic address, as you've seen other people use mutt keyboard macros to get the same effect. Once a message has been classified correctly the learner has no further interest in it and you can delete it if you want. HTH, Scott From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 09:46:05 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 702AF16A4BF for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:46:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 1upmc-msximc2.isdip.upmc.edu (1upmc-msximc2.isdip.upmc.edu [128.147.18.40]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28CA843FDF for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:45:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from personrp@ccbh.com) Received: by 1upmc-msximc2.isdip.upmc.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:45:55 -0400 Message-ID: <4BA256918ACE7449BD7896E65711C88B4A7F77@1UPMC-MSX8.isdip.upmc.edu> From: "Person, Roderick" To: 'Brad Knowles' Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:45:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: RE: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:46:05 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad.knowles@skynet.be] > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 12:15 PM > To: Marc Ramirez > Cc: chat@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? > > If you want a GUI MUA that incorporates anti-spam features, I > highly recommend Eudora 6. It also has a built-in spelling checker > (or uses the spelling check service provided by the OS), and many > other positive features. Eudora works well as either an IMAP or POP3 > client. I've seen people answer try Eudora more than once on the BSD list. Am I missing something? AFAIK there is not Eudora Client for unix or linux, or is there because I can't find it on the eudora site. Roderick Person Programmer personrp@ccbh.com http://www.ccbh.com "History doesn't have to repeat itself forever, though; there's no reason you can't replace the Makefile...." -- Terry Lambert from FreeBSD-Chat List..... From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 09:48:22 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CCDF16A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:48:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B773D43FE1 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:48:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.6p3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8MGm3US055798; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:48:06 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030922160416.GC635@hermes.nixsys.be> References: <20030922160416.GC635@hermes.nixsys.be> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:44:29 +0200 To: Philip Paeps From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The net fights back X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:48:22 -0000 At 6:04 PM +0200 2003/09/22, Philip Paeps wrote: > Trying to convince another ISP as well, but they insist on letting >the problem > fester for a bit *sigh* You mean Belgacom? Don't hold your breath. I think the last person with a clue left there a little while back. -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 09:48:23 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B0FA16A4C1 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:48:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5107D44015 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:48:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.6p3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8MGm3UQ055798; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:48:04 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030922121327.R335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> <28213.216.195.235.103.1064243311.squirrel@webmail.gigguardian.com > <20030922121327.R335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:43:51 +0200 To: Marc Ramirez From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: Chip McClure cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:48:23 -0000 At 12:22 PM -0400 2003/09/22, Marc Ramirez wrote: > I'm probably most interested in setting up a Bayesian filter for now. Bayesian filters are one piece of the package, but should not be used alone. For one thing, they need input of several hundred (preferably several thousand) recent spam/ham messages, so that they can be trained on what your particular mail traffic looks like. If you can't give them that amount of input data, then they're not very useful. In my experience, you're better off starting with a rules-based scoring filtering system where things have been pre-assigned certain weights, such as SpamAssassin. In here, you put all your black lists, and everything else you can (black lists just become another input to the score, helping to raise or lower the chance that the message will be recognized as spam). You can add to this a Bayesian-style learning/adaptive filtering system, and you should look closely at various options, including the Bayesian mode of SpamAssassin, or crm114 (which claims to get better performance than SpamAssassin on smaller sample sets), and I'm sure there are many others. To this picture, you should also add greylisting and a message-digest validation mechanism such as DCC, Razor, or Pyzor (I'd use at least DCC plus one other, and not just one of the three). Then you also need to incorporate anti-virus scanning. I'm seeing more than two-thirds of my traffic right now being nothing but w32.swen.a@mm virus crap. > Anyways, thank you very much for your input. I'm gonna look at > SquirrelMail, too (for different reasons). For webmail solutions, I recommend TWIG. It's PHP-based, but doesn't make nearly so much use of Javascript as Horde/IMP, and it seemed to work better for us than SquirrelMail at the large Belgian ISP that I used to work for. -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 09:55:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F06E16A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:55:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D464644027 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:55:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.6p3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8MGtMUQ056168; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:55:23 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4BA256918ACE7449BD7896E65711C88B4A7F77@1UPMC-MSX8.isdip.upmc.edu> References: <4BA256918ACE7449BD7896E65711C88B4A7F77@1UPMC-MSX8.isdip.upmc.edu> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:53:09 +0200 To: "Person, Roderick" From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: 'Brad Knowles' cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: RE: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:55:32 -0000 At 12:45 PM -0400 2003/09/22, Person, Roderick wrote: > I've seen people answer try Eudora more than once on the BSD list. Am I > missing something? > AFAIK there is not Eudora Client for unix or linux, or is there because I > can't find it on the eudora site. MacOS X is a very popular platform for people who are partial to BSD, but want a more mainstream OS as their desktop (in my case, laptop). Many old BSD-types that I've heard of have been buying Mac hardware recently. Of course, Eudora is available as a Carbon application, which will work just fine on MacOS X. I'm sure you'll find plenty of people recommending other applications for other OSes, as well. Just because BSD may be your preferred server OS, or one of your server OSes, doesn't mean that it's the only OS available to you, or that it is necessarily the OS you prefer to have sitting in front of you on your desktop or laptop. -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 09:58:57 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A27B716A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:58:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED20943FDD for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:58:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: from localhost.localdomain (12-230-74-101.client.attbi.com[12.230.74.101]) by attbi.com (rwcrmhc13) with ESMTP id <2003092216584101500eu1l0e>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:58:41 +0000 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8MGv74d060765; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:57:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h8MGv1C8060764; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:57:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) To: Marc Ramirez References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> From: underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:57:01 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> (Marc Ramirez's message of "Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:50:07 -0400 (EDT)") Message-ID: <28r828bw2q.828@mail.comcast.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) XEmacs/21.4 (Portable Code, berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:58:57 -0000 Marc Ramirez writes: > So, what are you young hipsters using to read main and filter spam? Gnus in Xemacs. I'm neither young or hip, but 5 or 6 years ago, after several months of cursing the Netscape MUA (and remembering my experience with a primative pine), I spent a few days banging my head against Gnus in Xemacs, and the time investment has paid off wonderfully. You'll need to do a lot of reading of "info" nodes within Xemacs (or Emacs), to use it well. In its config file (eg, gnus.el), you can use regular expressions to split mail into different folders. You could have it put spam in a spam folder, but the normal UI is so easy to use that I'm happy just manually deleting them from my "default" folder (where messages that don't get sent into named folders go). It seems easy enough to detect spam by the "From" and "Subject" info which is displayed in the Gnus "summary" buffer, but you can look at a raw message too, without causing any content to get "executed". Gnus has more commands than you'll ever learn, and you can make it do more (with elisp) if you really need to. A few nice features: -- The best feature is that you have all the features of Xemacs. -- It has pull-down & pop-up menus for very many features, so you don't have to remember as much as you might expect. -- You can easily reformat ">" quotes when replying. -- It shows each person's quote in a different color. -- You can reform a whole message while reading it. -- E-mail and USENET behavior is very similar. Your folders are treated much like newgroups. -- You can group folders and hide ones you aren't using. And list them in a desired order. -- You can have it delete mailing list messages either after reading them or after a certain number of days. -- You can have it show all message date/times in UTC or local instead of what the sender used. -- Flexible control over header content (eg "From:"). -- It can avoid showing you the same msg more than once. -- It can find "referenced" msgs. -- It handles MIME quite well, especially if you tell it to display text/plain when available as it normally is. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 10:03:07 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34C1B16A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:03:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 1upmc-msximc2.isdip.upmc.edu (1upmc-msximc2.isdip.upmc.edu [128.147.18.40]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51D7143FAF for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:03:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from personrp@ccbh.com) Received: by 1upmc-msximc2.isdip.upmc.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:03:05 -0400 Message-ID: <4BA256918ACE7449BD7896E65711C88B41E816@1UPMC-MSX8.isdip.upmc.edu> From: "Person, Roderick" To: 'Brad Knowles' Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:03:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: RE: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:03:07 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad.knowles@skynet.be] > > I'm sure you'll find plenty of people recommending other > applications for other OSes, as well. Just because BSD may be your > preferred server OS, or one of your server OSes, doesn't mean that > it's the only OS available to you, or that it is necessarily the OS > you prefer to have sitting in front of you on your desktop or laptop. > You may be right, although I use FreeBSD as a desktop and server, except at work I'm forced to use win2k as a desktop. I've just find it strange that people do recommend none unix applications to people that start messages with "I use pine" . Roderick Person Programmer personrp@ccbh.com http://www.ccbh.com "History doesn't have to repeat itself forever, though; there's no reason you can't replace the Makefile...." -- Terry Lambert from FreeBSD-Chat List..... From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 10:07:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DB5816A4C0 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:07:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4599D43FF3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:07:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.6p3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8MH70UQ056594; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:07:00 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <28r828bw2q.828@mail.comcast.net> References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> <28r828bw2q.828@mail.comcast.net> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:05:05 +0200 To: underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: Marc Ramirez cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:07:10 -0000 At 9:57 AM -0700 2003/09/22, Gary W. Swearingen wrote: > Gnus has more commands than you'll ever learn, and you can make it do > more (with elisp) if you really need to. So, when are you going to be shipping emacsBSD? I mean, it shouldn't be hard to implement the entire OS inside of emacs, right? ;-) -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 10:08:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0707716A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:08:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.broadpark.no (mail.broadpark.no [217.13.4.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB6F443FDF for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:08:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from smtp.des.no (37.80-203-228.nextgentel.com [80.203.228.37]) by mail.broadpark.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADAD279226; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:05:09 +0200 (MEST) Received: by smtp.des.no (Pony Express, from userid 666) id 74DAF9ADE0; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:05:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from dwp.des.no (dwp.des.no [10.0.0.4]) by smtp.des.no (Pony Express) with ESMTP id 9DC699ADC8; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:05:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 829ADB84A; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:05:05 +0200 (CEST) To: Brad Knowles References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:05:05 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Brad Knowles's message of "Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:14:53 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.0 required=8.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: Marc Ramirez cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:08:16 -0000 Brad Knowles writes: > On the CLI side, you can use SpamAssassin with procmail, and > mutt will work well (although pine would probably also work). If > you're doing anything related to PGP, I think mutt would be a better > choice, since it was designed (by Mike Elkins, the author of the > PGP/MIME RFC) to integrate those kinds of features from Day One. Mutt > has always worked well as a POP3 client, but used to have poor support > for IMAP. I don't know if that has since changed. Mutt has had more than adequate IMAP support for quite a while now. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 10:10:34 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9D8316A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:10:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3FDA43FD7 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:10:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.6p3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8MHATUQ056943; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:10:30 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4BA256918ACE7449BD7896E65711C88B41E816@1UPMC-MSX8.isdip.upmc.edu> References: <4BA256918ACE7449BD7896E65711C88B41E816@1UPMC-MSX8.isdip.upmc.edu> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:09:44 +0200 To: "Person, Roderick" From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: 'Brad Knowles' cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: RE: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:10:34 -0000 At 1:03 PM -0400 2003/09/22, Person, Roderick wrote: > I've just find it strange that people do recommend none unix applications > to people that start messages with "I use pine". Pine works just fine on MacOS X. It is a full {Free|Net|Open}BSD userland, with a Mach kernel, plus some Apple proprietary I/O subsystems for things like the filesystem. The vast, vast majority of *nix applications will compile and run without any changes whatsoever on MacOS X. So, saying "I use pine" is not necessarily mutually exclusive with "Try Eudora". -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 10:17:39 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8767216A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:17:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.broadpark.no (mail.broadpark.no [217.13.4.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8954443FAF for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:17:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from smtp.des.no (37.80-203-228.nextgentel.com [80.203.228.37]) by mail.broadpark.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B0CC7B111; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:15:17 +0200 (MEST) Received: by smtp.des.no (Pony Express, from userid 666) id EBDB79AD99; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:15:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from dwp.des.no (dwp.des.no [10.0.0.4]) by smtp.des.no (Pony Express) with ESMTP id 0F95B9AD76; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:15:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id DF302B84A; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:15:09 +0200 (CEST) To: Marc Ramirez References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:15:09 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> (Marc Ramirez's message of "Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:50:07 -0400 (EDT)") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.0 required=8.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_GNUS_UA version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:17:39 -0000 Marc Ramirez writes: > So, what are you young hipsters using to read main and filter spam? Postfix to deliver mail; SpamAssassin (with a RAZOR2_CHECK score of 5.0) to tag spam; Sieve to filter and sort mail; Cyrus IMAP to store it; Gnus to read it. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 10:31:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7198B16A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.inka.de (quechua.inka.de [193.197.184.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56BC043FDF for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:31:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mailnull@mips.inka.de) Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (uucp@) by mail.inka.de with gbsmtp id 1A1UXM-0003Pl-02; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:31:48 +0200 Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h8MGqFLj069509 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:52:15 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mailnull@localhost.mips.inka.de) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h8MGqFnP069508 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:52:15 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mailnull) From: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:52:14 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <20030922114150.GB21812@nevermind.kiev.ua> Originator: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Second OSDN Conference in Kiev, Ukraine X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:31:51 -0000 Alexandr Kovalenko wrote: > I'm proud to invite all interested in Open Source Software and > solutions, which beased on it to Second annual OSDN conference in Kiev, > Ukraine, which will take place 27th of September, 2003. I think the Ukraine still has fairly strict visa requirements in place for visitors from, say, the EU. If you want to give potential attendents any chance at all, you need to advertise this event much earlier the next time around. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 10:41:38 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEE4E16A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:41:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crf-consulting.co.uk (82-44-218-46.cable.ubr10.haye.blueyonder.co.uk [82.44.218.46]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B985C43FF3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:41:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@freebsd.org) Received: from freebsd.org ([192.168.1.112])h8MHfWEH008039; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:41:32 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik@freebsd.org) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:41:33 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) To: Massimiliano Stucchi From: Nik Clayton In-Reply-To: <20030921175451.713897eb.max@willystudios.com> Message-Id: <01F5455E-ED24-11D7-8196-000393863D48@freebsd.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSDCon photos X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:41:38 -0000 On Sunday, September 21, 2003, at 04:54 pm, Massimiliano Stucchi wrote: > http://www.willystudios.com/foto/2003/bsdcon/ Added to http://bsdcon.kwiki.org/ N From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 11:22:55 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6FB816A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:22:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pcwin002.win.tue.nl (pcwin002.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.72]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD0CF43F93 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:22:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stijn@pcwin002.win.tue.nl) Received: from pcwin002.win.tue.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pcwin002.win.tue.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h8MILULY085456; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:21:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from stijn@pcwin002.win.tue.nl) Received: (from stijn@localhost) by pcwin002.win.tue.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id h8MILUeh085455; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:21:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from stijn) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:21:30 +0200 From: Stijn Hoop To: Wilko Bulte Message-ID: <20030922182130.GA663@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> References: <200309221425.h8MEPWY68417@alogis.com> <20030922171115.GB45499@freebie.xs4all.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="7AUc2qLy4jB3hD7Z" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030922171115.GB45499@freebie.xs4all.nl> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Bright-Idea: Let's abolish HTML mail! cc: jsmith@drexel.edu cc: Holger Kipp cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: faulty memory (was Re: Gcc 3.2.2 vs gcc 3.2.3) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:22:56 -0000 --7AUc2qLy4jB3hD7Z Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Sep 22, 2003 at 07:11:15PM +0200, Wilko Bulte wrote: > On Mon, Sep 22, 2003 at 02:25:27PM +0000, Holger Kipp wrote: > > Justin Smith (jsmith@drexel.edu) wrote:=20 > > >I'm running a P4 2.4 Ghz processor with 512meg of ram. > > > > > >I've had the problem of getting signal 11 and signal 4 when I make > > >buildworld and buildkernel. > > > > > >I tested my system with memtest86 (for several hours) and it says > > >everything is OK. > >=20 > > We had similar problems once. It turned out to be a 'lucky' combination= of > > good mainboard and good memory that were slightly incompatible. > >=20 > > memtest86 might not detect this, but make buildworld will. If you don't > > get the errors at the same location every time, it might be the same > > issue. We found out after contacting both the mainboard and the memory > > chip vendors. >=20 > Same experience here, also on P4, with DDR400 memory. Asus mainboard, > with memory from the Asus qualified memory list. Did not work worth sh*, > at least not with memory at DDR400 speeds. Other memory fixed is perfectl= y. >=20 > Go figure.. I just had this problem, P4 on Gigabyte mainboard, DDR400 memory, 2 DIMMs of 512 MB each. With a single DIMM (both DIMMs tested) memtest didn't find anything and the machine was rock stable, but in any combo of the 2 DIMMs, dual channel or not, the machine would lock up / throw gcc ICE everytime. When I ran memtest on the machine with both DIMMs in, it would consistently show errors in one 512 half though, and so I returned the one 'faulty' DIMM and all was well. Talk about strange... --Stijn --=20 There are of course many problems connected with life, of which some of the most popular are 'Why are people born?', 'Why do they die?', and `Why do they spend so much of the intervening time wearing digital watches?' -- Douglas Adams, "The Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy" --7AUc2qLy4jB3hD7Z Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/bz2qY3r/tLQmfWcRAh+PAKCNHzTvCxsRZ3Qdw+2SAzpFCIn9sACeP2Uk OL+zl8IwFmP0G0mCo1AoAm4= =feWb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --7AUc2qLy4jB3hD7Z-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 11:50:25 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71E5716A501 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:50:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9A2543FF2 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:50:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-chat-local@be-well.no-ip.com) Received: from be-well.ilk.org (be-well.no-ip.com[66.30.200.37]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with ESMTP id <2003092218501801100doltle>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:50:18 +0000 Received: from be-well.ilk.org (lowellg.ne.client2.attbi.com [66.30.200.37] (may be forged)) by be-well.ilk.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8MIoH5k046017; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:50:17 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from freebsd-chat-local@be-well.no-ip.com) Received: (from lowell@localhost) by be-well.ilk.org (8.12.9/8.12.6/Submit) id h8MIoG6E046014; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:50:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: be-well.ilk.org: lowell set sender to freebsd-chat-local@be-well.ilk.org using -f Sender: lowell@be-well.no-ip.com To: Stijn Hoop References: <200309221425.h8MEPWY68417@alogis.com> <20030922171115.GB45499@freebie.xs4all.nl> <20030922182130.GA663@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> From: Lowell Gilbert Date: 22 Sep 2003 14:50:16 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20030922182130.GA663@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> Message-ID: <44brtc4pzr.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> Lines: 18 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: faulty memory (was Re: Gcc 3.2.2 vs gcc 3.2.3) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:50:25 -0000 Stijn Hoop writes: > I just had this problem, P4 on Gigabyte mainboard, DDR400 memory, 2 DIMMs > of 512 MB each. With a single DIMM (both DIMMs tested) memtest didn't > find anything and the machine was rock stable, but in any combo of the > 2 DIMMs, dual channel or not, the machine would lock up / throw > gcc ICE everytime. > > When I ran memtest on the machine with both DIMMs in, it would consistently > show errors in one 512 half though, and so I returned the one 'faulty' DIMM > and all was well. > > Talk about strange... Not that strange. The second socket was having problems. Maybe just couldn't handle the capacitance load it was getting (which could be different with other modules; other sized modules, anyway). From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 11:58:26 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5089116A4B3; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:58:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from colossus.systems.pipex.net (colossus.systems.pipex.net [62.241.160.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BCA443FAF; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:58:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@thuvia.org) Received: from dotar.thuvia.org (81-86-254-72.dsl.pipex.com [81.86.254.72]) by colossus.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9125B16000575; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:58:23 +0100 (BST) Received: from dotar.thuvia.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dotar.thuvia.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8MIwNPA018465; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:58:23 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@dotar.thuvia.org) Received: (from mark@localhost) by dotar.thuvia.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h8MIwNeR018464; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:58:23 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark) Message-Id: <200309221858.h8MIwNeR018464@dotar.thuvia.org> From: Mark Valentine Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:58:23 +0000 In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 beta(5) 10/07/98) To: nik@freebsd.org (Nik Clayton) cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSDCon photos X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:58:26 -0000 > From: nik@freebsd.org (Nik Clayton) > Date: Mon 22 Sep, 2003 > Subject: Re: BSDCon photos > Added to http://bsdcon.kwiki.org/ Hmm, that URL is a reliable netscape.core generator for me (4.76), unless I turn off JavaScript. Cheers, Mark. -- "Tigers will do ANYTHING for a tuna fish sandwich." "We're kind of stupid that way." *munch* *munch* -- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 12:20:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E24316A4C2 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pcwin002.win.tue.nl (pcwin002.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.72]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDDC343F3F for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:20:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stijn@pcwin002.win.tue.nl) Received: from pcwin002.win.tue.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pcwin002.win.tue.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h8MJKxLY085878; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:20:59 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from stijn@pcwin002.win.tue.nl) Received: (from stijn@localhost) by pcwin002.win.tue.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id h8MJKx9Q085877; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:20:59 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from stijn) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:20:59 +0200 From: Stijn Hoop To: Lowell Gilbert Message-ID: <20030922192059.GB663@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> References: <200309221425.h8MEPWY68417@alogis.com> <20030922171115.GB45499@freebie.xs4all.nl> <20030922182130.GA663@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> <44brtc4pzr.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="xgyAXRrhYN0wYx8y" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <44brtc4pzr.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Bright-Idea: Let's abolish HTML mail! cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: faulty memory X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:20:32 -0000 --xgyAXRrhYN0wYx8y Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Sep 22, 2003 at 02:50:16PM -0400, Lowell Gilbert wrote: > Stijn Hoop writes: > > I just had this problem, P4 on Gigabyte mainboard, DDR400 memory, 2 DIM= Ms > > of 512 MB each. With a single DIMM (both DIMMs tested) memtest didn't > > find anything and the machine was rock stable, but in any combo of the > > 2 DIMMs, dual channel or not, the machine would lock up / throw > > gcc ICE everytime. > >=20 > > When I ran memtest on the machine with both DIMMs in, it would consiste= ntly > > show errors in one 512 half though, and so I returned the one 'faulty' = DIMM > > and all was well. > >=20 > > Talk about strange... >=20 > Not that strange. The second socket was having problems. =20 > Maybe just couldn't handle the capacitance load it was=20 > getting (which could be different with other modules;=20 > other sized modules, anyway). Err, my sentence above tried to convey that, with both DIMMs in the machine, running memtest produced consistent errors _IN ONE DIMM_. That is, I swapped the two DIMMs and memtest started showing errors in the other 512MB.=20 In fact, the machine is running happily with the swapped DIMM in the same socket that the faulty one had. So I doubt that it's the socket :) --Stijn --=20 "Linux has many different distributions, meaning that you can probably find one that is exactly what you want (I even found one that looked like a Unix system)." -- Mike Meyer, from a posting at questions@freebsd.org --xgyAXRrhYN0wYx8y Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/b0ubY3r/tLQmfWcRAktAAJ0f2uC75hH9DY1vmC7tH+b5dzEMqwCbBjA+ B5HWwufDdZKQb+eBr5IMtqU= =kS5I -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --xgyAXRrhYN0wYx8y-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 12:40:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A86416A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:40:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.7f000001.org (kyblik.pieskovisko.sk [213.215.72.42]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 29FA443FAF for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:40:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from frankie@kyblik.pieskovisko.sk) Received: (qmail 20645 invoked by uid 19508); 22 Sep 2003 19:40:15 -0000 Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:40:15 +0200 From: "Michal F. Hanula" To: Marc Ramirez Message-ID: <20030922194015.GA20427@kyblik.pieskovisko.sk> References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="mP3DRpeJDSE+ciuQ" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:40:19 -0000 --mP3DRpeJDSE+ciuQ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Sep 22, 2003 at 10:50:07AM -0400, Marc Ramirez wrote: [...] > So, what are you young hipsters using to read main and filter spam? mutt (as it sucks less). Sylpheed (as it's almost as easy to use) M2 (the Opera mailer --- it's quite hard to get used to, but very interesting) My mail antivirus (qmail-scanner) uses SpamAssassin (spamd) as one of its scanners, so I can just say ``l ~h X-Spam-Status:\ Yes'' in mutt (besides, qmail-scanner checks the message headers for MIME compliance and about half of the spam comes with CRCRLF instead of CRLF (Could somebody wise please explain me why they do it? Are they so stupid, or there a purpo= se?) and gets blocked. m&f --=20 What do you care what other people think? --mP3DRpeJDSE+ciuQ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/b1Af4PY2BaN84VwRApCyAJ43Md+iilzTG365KuIq9IsRj7lObACeJcB8 yHn4vQJ8e044QNIu0F4jydY= =AB6q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --mP3DRpeJDSE+ciuQ-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 12:51:05 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6644B16A4DC for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:51:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from papagena.rockefeller.edu (papagena.rockefeller.edu [129.85.41.71]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2103444008 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:51:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@papagena.rockefeller.edu) Received: from papagena.rockefeller.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) h8MJn7t1011211; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:49:07 -0400 Received: (from rsidd@localhost) by papagena.rockefeller.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h8MJn7on011209; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:49:07 -0400 Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:49:07 -0400 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Mark Valentine Message-ID: <20030922194907.GA11177@online.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200309221858.h8MIwNeR018464@dotar.thuvia.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.20-20.9smp i686 cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSDCon photos X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:51:05 -0000 Mark Valentine wrote: > Hmm, that URL is a reliable netscape.core generator for me (4.76) People still use netscape 4? Why? I remember using it years ago -- there was no choice, mozilla was in version 0.7 and rather flaky (not to mention too bloated for a 200 MHz Pentium). It was absolutely essential to keep java and javascript turned off, and even then netscape would keep crashing, I had an alias set up for "rm -f ~/.netscape/lock". Now we have mozilla, mozilla-firebird, epiphany, opera (all with native FreeBSD versions), and the konqueror in kde-cvs (to be kde 3.2) is looking very good too -- and all of these are vastly better than IE 6, let alone NS 4, which truly belongs on the garbage-heap of history. R From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 14:36:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99A9A16A4C0 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:36:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wingfoot.org (wingfoot.org [64.32.179.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32C5B43F3F for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:36:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ges@wingfoot.org) Received: from localhost (localhost.wingfoot.org [127.0.0.1]) by wingfoot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 753A9152AE for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:36:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wingfoot.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (caduceus.wingfoot.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 97140-06 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:36:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.wingfoot.org (localhost.wingfoot.org [127.0.0.1]) by wingfoot.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8F013152A7 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:36:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 65.246.246.82 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ges) by www.wingfoot.org with HTTP; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:36:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2822.65.246.246.82.1064266601.squirrel@www.wingfoot.org> In-Reply-To: <20030922150237.GA388@FreeBSD.org> References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> <20030922150237.GA388@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:36:41 -0400 (EDT) From: "Glenn Sieb" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at wingfoot.org Subject: Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:36:44 -0000 Simon L. Nielsen said: > mutt works nicely with PGP/GPG and handles a lot of inboxes very well > (procmail sorted mailing lists). When setting up mutt the first time it > does require you to spend some time making a good .muttrc (mutt's main > config file) that works with your setup, but once you get that done and > learn the basic keys, it's very nice. http://mutt.netliberte.org/ Saves a lot of time, and helps get the options you want set just right :)--One of my coworkers sent me to this site a few months back and it's really a wonderful resource! :) Glenn --- The original portions of this message are the copyright of the author (c)1998-2002 Glenn E. Sieb. ICQ UIN: 300395 IRC Nick: Rainbear "All acts of Love and Pleasure are Her rituals"-Charge of the Goddess From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 17:07:40 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7462E16A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:07:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shockwave.systems.pipex.net (shockwave.systems.pipex.net [62.241.160.9]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB5FC43F85 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:07:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@thuvia.org) Received: from dotar.thuvia.org (81-86-254-72.dsl.pipex.com [81.86.254.72]) by shockwave.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24E951C002DA; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 01:07:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from dotar.thuvia.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dotar.thuvia.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8N07ZPA026446; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 01:07:35 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@dotar.thuvia.org) Received: (from mark@localhost) by dotar.thuvia.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h8N07Z9d026445; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 01:07:35 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark) Message-Id: <200309230007.h8N07Z9d026445@dotar.thuvia.org> From: Mark Valentine Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 01:07:35 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20030922194907.GA11177@online.fr> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 beta(5) 10/07/98) To: Rahul Siddharthan cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSDCon photos X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:07:40 -0000 > From: Rahul Siddharthan > Date: Mon 22 Sep, 2003 > Subject: Re: BSDCon photos > People still use netscape 4? Why? Believe me, I'd love to get away from it! Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be so easy for me to do so. Netscape 4 is just the least painful alternative I've come upon. It installs easily in my environment and more or less runs at reasonable speed for a while before it bombs out. I keep JavaScript turned on largely because for some stupid reason disabling it seems to lose some CSS functionality (or something to the same effect)! Last time I tried Opera it was at least as flaky and just, well, weird. Maybe I should give it another try, it's been about a year. (Footnote: installed Opera 6.12 [static] and it seems to run reasonably - didn't drop core until I exited; anyway, it looks like I can now configure it into something not too wasteful of screen space - apart from that banner ad - so I'll give it a spin for a while.) I once had Mozilla running but it was just too darned sluggish to be useful (this computer may be a few years old, but I still think that any software which doesn't run well on a well-spec'd 600MHz Pentium III system is just not worth my time!). I recently managed to build Mozilla Firebird (which appears my best hope at the moment, though I don't hold out too much hope for interactive performance), but it just bombed out with a run-time link error which I haven't yet resolved (I clearly don't have the dependencies built quite right - these things shouldn't be so _hard_ and _time consuming_ for someone who's been building and using free software heavily for two decades!). I can't yet use FreeBSD's pre-built binary packages on this system because they hose my /usr/local (a long standing gripe of mine; for just a few packages which don't conflict with my existing installation I can rip apart the packages and install them by hand, but that gets tiresome quickly), and when I try to build from ports my existing non-ports components seem to cause grief. Another avenue I've still to get around to exploring is to build the ports on another "clean" system with LOCALBASE != /usr/local and install the resulting packages on this one - I think I just managed to free up a system adequate for that purpose. I suspect conflicts in dynamic libraries will still cause grief and possibly hose the stuff I _do_ have running... :-( ldconfig(8) is not my friend. I gave up trying to build either KDE or GNOME myself after a few dozen packages - it'll be easier to just clear out /usr/local (therefore abandoning a local software admin regime which has served me well all these years, but this is the last system I have which still uses it) and start again from ports, but this migration takes (too much) time (I'm going to attempt, for example, to move my news system over to another of my FreeBSD systems and use the inn port instead of my own installation - ditto for samba and apache - but I can't install ports on _this_ system until practically every last "legacy" [ahem] component is moved from /usr/local). I dunno, maybe I'm just getting old, but I still rely heavily on the lightning fast virtual desktop switching of olvwm, the familiar Mail-meets-vi feel of mush for mail and the incomparable efficiency of trn. All of these are missing modern features, but I'll live without these features if having them means foregoing the excellent implementations of core functionality I'm used to depending on minute by minute, day by day. Cheers, Mark. -- "Tigers will do ANYTHING for a tuna fish sandwich." "We're kind of stupid that way." *munch* *munch* -- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 17:18:41 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B88816A4BF for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:18:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fs5-4.us4.outblaze.com (205-158-62-136.outblaze.com [205.158.62.136]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4B77843FBF for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:18:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luomat@operamail.com) Received: (qmail 14259 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2003 00:15:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Tim) (luomat:operamail.com?operamail.com@204.32.70.169) by 205-158-62-136.outblaze.com with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 00:15:53 -0000 Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:18:29 -0400 To: chat@freebsd.org References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> <20030922194015.GA20427@kyblik.pieskovisko.sk> From: Timothy Luoma Organization: http://tntluoma.com Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=utf-8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20030922194015.GA20427@kyblik.pieskovisko.sk> User-Agent: Opera7.20/Win32 M2 build 3144 Subject: M2 (Opera) Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:18:41 -0000 On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:40:15 +0200, Michal F. Hanula wrote: > M2 (the Opera mailer --- it's quite hard to get used to, but very > interesting) I'm using M2, and I love it. It took me awhile to get used to, but now I wish I could use the same priciple for organizing all of my files instead of just my email! If you get a lot of mail, and especially a lot of list mail, M2 is ideal. If you are like me (and in many ways I hope you're not ;-) you put a lot of value into your email. You want to be able to find what you need. I used to spend a lot of time trying to decide how to file my email once I had received it. I tried a number of different methods for organizing my email. I tried putting mail from certain people into certain folders so I could easily find all the email messages from, say, my boss. But then my boss emailed myself and a co-worker about something and then I didn't know what to do. Should I save a copy in my boss' folder? What do I do if my co-worker replies? Now I'm going to have messages about one topic in two folders, how will I be able to find what I am looking for? So I tried sorting messages by topic.... but soon I had another problem. Either my topics were going to be very broad (and again I wouldn't always sure which message had gone to which folder) or they were going to be very specific, which meant a long list of folders. Then M2 came to me and said, "The problem is not you. The problem is your folders. Stop using folders." Of course I was confused, and scoffed at the idea. I thought to myself, "Sure, right. I've tried that too, the method of keeping everything in one huge folder. That didn't work either." But M2 persisted. "No folders. Not even one," it said. "Huh?" I said. No folders? ("There is no spoon") Quitting folders meant learning a new way of thinking about email and how it is stored. I won't lie to you, it took awhile to get used to it at first. M2 operates differently from any other mail client I have ever used. But the learning curve, while initially steep, was well worth the time invested in it. M2 doesn't use folders. Really. Instead it uses what is essentially a database. All of your email goes into the database and is stored in there. Think of it as a circle. All of your email is inside the circle. You can enter the circle from a number of different directions. - Come into the circle from one direction, and you can find all the messages sent to a certain mailing list. - Come into the circle from another direction, and you can find all the messages sent by a certain person. - From another direction, you can find all the messages that match a certain keyword, or a certain Subject. - From another direction, and you can find all the messages with have attachments Or all the messages that you have flagged with certain labels (Important, To-Do, Valuable, Funny, Call Back, Email back, meeting) It used to be that to store that information together, it would have to be in a folder, and only in that folder. But M2 doesn't use folders. M2 uses something called Access Points (which is also spelled as "accesspoints") instead of folders. The key to understanding Access Points is the key to understanding M2. It is revolutionary, not evolutionary, in that it breaks from the way things have always been and creates something truly new. Access Points are simply one way to organize a group of messages. You can access your email through any number of points, just like you could enter (access) the circle from any number of directions (points). In M2, one message could be in 2 Access Points. For example, I could have an accesspoint which contained all the emails from my boss. (Actually, by adding my boss to my Contacts, M2 will automatically create that accesspoint in the Contacts Panel.) However, if my boss sent me an email with an attachment, I could find the same message under one of the Attachments Access Points (depending on what kind of attachment it was). Instead of having to choose 1 folder for the email message, M2 simply lets it be seen in both Access Points. M2 does not store email in folders. It stores them in Access Points. With M2, my email is easier to store and retrieve. M2 is very fast, even with several thousand messages stored. Actually at one point I had around 60,000 messages in an earlier version of M2 and found that was about where I found M2 to slow down (but again, that was a much earlier version of M2 and on my 3 year old computer with 650Mhz processor and 256 RAM). Email is also easier to sort and find, because I can store things however I want to. Searches are done very quickly, I assume because of the way that Opera stores the mail. Which reminds me, that is another thing I like about M2: it stores mail in plain-text format. Why should you care? Because it means that you can always access your email, even if M2 failed for some reason. I once had a 25 megabyte mailbox file that Outlook decided could no longer be opened. Outlook stores its mail in a proprietary (closed) format, so I was out of luck. The mail was lost: it was there, but it couldn't be opened. That day I vowed that I would never use a mail program that didn't use a plain-text format. I wouldn't something telling me that my email was lost. (At this point if you are still not clear, you may want to read the Official M2 Tutorial before continuing). http://www.opera.com/support/tutorials/opera/m2/ TjL From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 17:21:04 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DDAB16A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:21:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from papagena.rockefeller.edu (user-0cdfeuq.cable.mindspring.com [24.215.187.218]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E5D2944008 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:21:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@online.fr) Received: (qmail 1575 invoked by uid 1002); 23 Sep 2003 00:20:57 -0000 Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:20:57 -0400 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Mark Valentine Message-ID: <20030923002057.GA1491@online.fr> References: <20030922194907.GA11177@online.fr> <200309230007.h8N07Z9d026445@dotar.thuvia.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200309230007.h8N07Z9d026445@dotar.thuvia.org> X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.20 i686 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSDCon photos X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:21:04 -0000 Mark Valentine wrote: > I once had Mozilla running but it was just too darned sluggish to be useful > (this computer may be a few years old, but I still think that any software > which doesn't run well on a well-spec'd 600MHz Pentium III system is just > not worth my time!). I used Mozilla (the full blown version) on a 400 MHz Pentium II, as well as an 800 MHz Celeron, for a long time. I found it quite acceptable in performance and excellent in stability and page-rendering quality. I've now switched to Mozilla Firebird, which I'm totally happy with. > I recently managed to build Mozilla Firebird (which appears my best > hope at the moment, though I don't hold out too much hope for > interactive performance), but it just bombed out with a run-time link > error which I haven't yet resolved (I clearly don't have the > dependencies built quite right - these things shouldn't be so _hard_ > and _time consuming_ for someone who's been building and using free > software heavily for two decades!). Unfortunately I don't have a FreeBSD system right now to experiment with, but 4 months ago I have used mozilla-firebird on 5-CURRENT and earlier on 4-STABLE, with absolutely no problems, via the ports... Definitely building it on a slow machine is a pain though. One option is the linux binary (which also gives you access to more plugins) but some libraries in the linux-base port may need to be upgraded, I seemed to remember it didn't like the default version of glibc or something. > I dunno, maybe I'm just getting old, but I still rely heavily on the > lightning fast virtual desktop switching of olvwm, the familiar > Mail-meets-vi feel of mush for mail and the incomparable efficiency of > trn. All of these are missing modern features, but I'll live without > these features if having them means foregoing the excellent > implementations of core functionality I'm used to depending on minute > by minute, day by day. If you like all that, you may like links (in the ports) -- it has graphical as well as text-only modes, and even does some javascript I think Rahul From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 17:43:17 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D05D16A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:43:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.tiadon.com (SMTP.tiadon.com [69.27.132.161]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 804EA43FCB for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:43:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from daleco.biz ([69.27.131.241]) by smtp.tiadon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:35:12 -0500 Message-ID: <3F6F96F8.2060701@daleco.biz> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:42:32 -0500 From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030920 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> <20030922194015.GA20427@kyblik.pieskovisko.sk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Sep 2003 00:35:12.0896 (UTC) FILETIME=[8D055800:01C3816A] Subject: Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:43:17 -0000 I might be what you'd call a 'young buck,' I've been using FBSD on servers for a scant couple of years. OTOH, I have nowhere near the knowledge or experience that even a BS of CS would have. Anyway, on the servers ny MUA is mutt via CLI. I'm not a power user there, I'm sure (and it's hard to be on a dialup connection in the sticks, as we say in Missouri), but I'd use it over the other plaintext CLI MUA's I've seen or tried. Very, very recently (read, this month) I decided I had enough working hardware to run FBSD on the desktop. My tenative efforts have brought a good bit of satisfaction. Right now, I'm thinking that Mozilla's mail client looks pretty good. Unlike another poster, I never fought with Netscrape while on Windoze...I think that the current model seems real nice --- I'm using the ported version 1.4 Mozilla's "junk filter" seems to be learning quite well. Another couple of days and I'll set it to autodelete the stuff ... it just started learning on Friday, so it's even 'noobier' than I. BTW, if the layout of this mail "inhales swiftly", you'll be sure and tell me, right? I'll cc: myself on a mutt account and check it for myself. My brother tells me it looks fine to him. HAND, Kevin Kinsey DaleCo, S.P. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 17:57:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D00D16A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:57:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A89E943FB1 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:57:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.6p3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8N0vhUU083516; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:57:50 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> <20030922194015.GA20427@kyblik.pieskovisko.sk> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:48:31 +0200 To: Timothy Luoma From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: M2 (Opera) Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:57:53 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:57:53 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:57:53 -0000 At 8:18 PM -0400 2003/09/22, Timothy Luoma wrote: > M2 doesn't use folders. Really. Instead it uses what is essentially > a database. All of your email goes into the database and is stored > in there. Think of it as a circle. All of your email is inside the > circle. You can enter the circle from a number of different directions. Ahh. The PowerMail solution. Right. Dunno about M2, but I did try PowerMail. I liked it, I really did. Problem was the database wasn't robust enough, and kept getting slightly slower as I added more and more mail. I've got mail going back to 1992. I've got multiple gigabytes of mail. PowerMail choked. I found that Eudora could search through my folders about as quickly as PowerMail could search through the indexes, and Eudora never needed to create the indexes to do that. I found that Eudora didn't get slower and slower as I've piled on the gigabytes of mail, so long as I periodically archive out the folders. Of course, Eudora makes it just as easy for me to search other folders or groups of folders in an archive of folders, as it does a single folder that is currently being used and organized in another folder hierarchy somewhere else. PowerMail effectively required that I try to archive out the entire database once it got past about 60MB worth of messages (attachments included), and it was *not* designed to ever have more than one database, so searching multiple databases was not something it handled well at all. So, what kind of database does M2 use? Is M2 available for MacOS X? > M2 uses something called Access Points (which is also spelled as > "accesspoints") instead of folders. The key to understanding Access > Points is the key to understanding M2. It is revolutionary, not > evolutionary, in that it breaks from the way things have always been > and creates something truly new. Access Points are basically just "views" into a database table. PowerMail has been using the "views" name for quite a while. > With M2, my email is easier to store and retrieve. M2 is very fast, > even with several thousand messages stored. Actually at one point I > had around 60,000 messages in an earlier version of M2 and found > that was about where I found M2 to slow down (but again, that was > a much earlier version of M2 and on my 3 year old computer with > 650Mhz processor and 256 RAM). One wonders how it would deal with hundreds of thousands of messages (my system), or an account that might receive 10,000 messages a day (not my system). Does it have integrated Bayesian anti-spam filtering? How is it at applying rules in general to "access points"? I have yet to find anything that is as good as or better than Eudora, especially Eudora 6, when it comes to filtering -- save possibly procmail. > Email is also easier to sort and find, because I can store things > however I want to. Searches are done very quickly, I assume because > of the way that Opera stores the mail. Which reminds me, that is > another thing I like about M2: it stores mail in plain-text format. I'm confused. I thought you said it used a database? > (At this point if you are still not clear, you may want to read the > Official M2 Tutorial before continuing). > > http://www.opera.com/support/tutorials/opera/m2/ Interesting. I'll have to check that out. Thanks! -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 17:57:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA9D616A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:57:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FE0143FBD for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:57:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.6p3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8N0vhUW083516; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:57:52 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> <20030922194015.GA20427@kyblik.pieskovisko.sk> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:52:25 +0200 To: Timothy Luoma From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: M2 (Opera) Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:57:53 -0000 At 8:18 PM -0400 2003/09/22, Timothy Luoma wrote: > http://www.opera.com/support/tutorials/opera/m2/ Top posting!!! BLECH!!! See: Quick reply One unique feature of M2 is "Quick reply" , which is useful for chat-like conversations. With Quick reply , you can type a short text that will be appended to the top of the original quoted message. When you are viewing a mail, type your message in the text box and click on the "Quick reply" button to send the reply. This will send the reply to all the recipients of the original e-mail. There's a quick reason to hate M2! -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 17:57:56 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E9CB16A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:57:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F7B543FF5 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:57:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.6p3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8N0vhUY083516; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:57:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> <20030922194015.GA20427@kyblik.pieskovisko.sk> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:54:28 +0200 To: Timothy Luoma From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: M2 (Opera) Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:57:56 -0000 At 8:18 PM -0400 2003/09/22, Timothy Luoma wrote: > http://www.opera.com/support/tutorials/opera/m2/ Mailing lists M2 can recognize mailing lists that you have subscribed to. M2 identifies mailing lists by looking at headers in the e-mail. Some mailing lists have incorrect headers and are therefore not recognized by M2 . It is not yet possible to add mailing lists manually. You can display the messages in threads so you can follow discussions easier. ;-( -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 17:57:57 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3EBE16A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:57:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EECEE43FAF for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:57:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.6p3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8N0vhUa083516; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:57:56 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> <20030922194015.GA20427@kyblik.pieskovisko.sk> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:57:43 +0200 To: Timothy Luoma From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: M2 (Opera) Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:57:57 -0000 At 8:18 PM -0400 2003/09/22, Timothy Luoma wrote: > http://www.opera.com/support/tutorials/opera/m2/ And, of course: M2 Tutorial This tutorial will help you to start using M2 to its fullest potential. Opera 7 comes with a totally rewritten mail and news client, with support for POP3 ,IMAP and (E)SMTP . The client (called M2 ) has many new, innovative and unique features. This means that in many respects, M2 behaves differently from most other mailers, and therefore requires some additional instructions before you start testing. Note that Opera 7 is only available for Windows. ;-( -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 18:11:28 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C27416A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:11:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shockwave.systems.pipex.net (shockwave.systems.pipex.net [62.241.160.9]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67D1D43F85 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:11:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@thuvia.org) Received: from dotar.thuvia.org (81-178-247-38.dsl.pipex.com [81.178.247.38]) by shockwave.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C32031C0015A; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:11:24 +0100 (BST) Received: from dotar.thuvia.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dotar.thuvia.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8N1BOPA028056; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:11:24 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@dotar.thuvia.org) Received: (from mark@localhost) by dotar.thuvia.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h8N1BO1j028055; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:11:24 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark) Message-Id: <200309230111.h8N1BO1j028055@dotar.thuvia.org> From: Mark Valentine Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:11:24 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20030923002057.GA1491@online.fr> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 beta(5) 10/07/98) To: Rahul Siddharthan cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSDCon photos X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 01:11:28 -0000 > From: Rahul Siddharthan > Date: Mon 22 Sep, 2003 > Subject: Re: BSDCon photos > If you like all that, you may like links (in the ports) -- it has > graphical as well as text-only modes, and even does some javascript I > think HTML without CSS is just too painful; decent graphical presentation is a core requirement for a web browser (and no, typical web browsers aren't my idea of a good application architecture...). I don't use mush and trn because I dislike a GUI, but because there are no GUI equivalents which are equally competent at their core functions and suit my style of working. I don't give up hope completely against finding more modern equivalents - it's not so many years since I finally abandoned a locally hacked version of the non-open non-portable Warwick shell for bash, once bash finally grew enough knobs to emulate what I found was a most natural style (essentially satisfied by tab-completion with show-all-if-ambiguous combined with history-search-{forward,backward} bound to ^N/^P, which was the hardwired behaviour of our hacked up wash since the mid-80s). It was a breath of fresh air to escape the restrictions of that old shell without losing its essential advantages. Cheers, Mark. -- "Tigers will do ANYTHING for a tuna fish sandwich." "We're kind of stupid that way." *munch* *munch* -- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 18:17:24 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5167A16A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:17:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from colossus.systems.pipex.net (colossus.systems.pipex.net [62.241.160.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFDCE43FDD for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:17:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@thuvia.org) Received: from dotar.thuvia.org (81-178-247-38.dsl.pipex.com [81.178.247.38]) by colossus.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DDB216000101; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:17:20 +0100 (BST) Received: from dotar.thuvia.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dotar.thuvia.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8N1HKPA028150; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:17:20 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@dotar.thuvia.org) Received: (from mark@localhost) by dotar.thuvia.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h8N1HKIk028149; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:17:20 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark) Message-Id: <200309230117.h8N1HKIk028149@dotar.thuvia.org> From: Mark Valentine Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:17:20 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20030923002057.GA1491@online.fr> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 beta(5) 10/07/98) To: Rahul Siddharthan cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSDCon photos X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 01:17:24 -0000 > From: Rahul Siddharthan > Date: Mon 22 Sep, 2003 > Subject: Re: BSDCon photos > Unfortunately I don't have a FreeBSD system right now to experiment > with, but 4 months ago I have used mozilla-firebird on 5-CURRENT and > earlier on 4-STABLE, with absolutely no problems, via the ports... Indeed, the only thing that's keeping me back there is the incompatibility between my existing installation and the FreeBSD ports system. Cheers, Mark. -- "Tigers will do ANYTHING for a tuna fish sandwich." "We're kind of stupid that way." *munch* *munch* -- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 18:25:04 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F47816A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:25:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from papagena.rockefeller.edu (user-0cdfeuq.cable.mindspring.com [24.215.187.218]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5780243FF5 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:25:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@online.fr) Received: (qmail 2533 invoked by uid 1002); 23 Sep 2003 01:24:56 -0000 Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:24:56 -0400 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Brad Knowles Message-ID: <20030923012456.GA2508@online.fr> References: <20030923002057.GA1491@online.fr> <200309230117.h8N1HKIk028149@dotar.thuvia.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.20 i686 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: M2 (Opera) Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 01:25:04 -0000 Brad Knowles wrote: > Note that Opera 7 is only available for Windows. ;-( http://www.opera.com/products/user/index.dml?platform=freebsd Also available for Linux and Solaris. Rahul From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 18:27:04 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FDF516A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:27:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.net (defout.telus.net [199.185.220.240]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EA0843FBD for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:27:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from viktorlazlo@telus.net) Received: from njamn8or ([207.6.240.165]) by priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.17 201-253-122-126-117-20021021) with ESMTP id <20030923012703.OZQQ6747.priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.net@njamn8or>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:27:03 -0600 Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:27:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Viktor Lazlo X-X-Sender: viktorlazlo@njamn8or.no-ip.org To: Brad Knowles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030922182630.H605@njamn8or.no-ip.org> References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> <28r828bw2q.828@mail.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: Marc Ramirez cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 01:27:04 -0000 On Mon, 22 Sep 2003, Brad Knowles wrote: > At 9:57 AM -0700 2003/09/22, Gary W. Swearingen wrote: > > > Gnus has more commands than you'll ever learn, and you can make it do > > more (with elisp) if you really need to. > > So, when are you going to be shipping emacsBSD? I mean, it > shouldn't be hard to implement the entire OS inside of emacs, right? emacs is already more than an OS, it's a religion . . . Cheers, Viktor From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 18:36:25 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF50016A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:36:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDE8143FE1 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:36:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.6p3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8N1aJUQ085038; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:36:20 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030923012456.GA2508@online.fr> References: <20030923002057.GA1491@online.fr> <200309230117.h8N1HKIk028149@dotar.thuvia.org> <20030923012456.GA2508@online.fr> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 03:34:16 +0200 To: Rahul Siddharthan From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: Brad Knowles cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: M2 (Opera) Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 01:36:25 -0000 At 9:24 PM -0400 2003/09/22, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: >> Note that Opera 7 is only available for Windows. ;-( > > http://www.opera.com/products/user/index.dml?platform=freebsd > > Also available for Linux and Solaris. Strange. I checked both FreeBSD and Linux, and could have sworn that they were only up to 6.x as well. Weird. Dunno how I missed that. Anyway, that is definitely better news. Thanks! -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 23:16:22 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3C8616A4B3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 23:16:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gateway.nixsys.be (gateway.nixsys.be [195.144.77.33]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A26F643F3F for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 23:16:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from philip@nixsys.be) Received: from hermes.nixsys.be (hermes.nixsys.be [195.144.77.45]) by gateway.nixsys.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0F0DC155 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:16:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: by hermes.nixsys.be (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4C2206D; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:16:19 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:16:18 +0200 From: Philip Paeps To: chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030923061618.GA645@hermes.nixsys.be> Mail-Followup-To: chat@freebsd.org References: <20030922160416.GC635@hermes.nixsys.be> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Date-in-Rome: ante diem IX Kalendas Octobres MMDCCLVI ab Urbe Condida X-PGP-Fingerprint: FA74 3C27 91A6 79D5 F6D3 FC53 BF4B D0E6 049D B879 X-Message-Flag: Get a proper mailclient! Mutt: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Subject: Re: The net fights back X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:16:22 -0000 On 2003-09-22 18:44:29 (+0200), Brad Knowles wrote: > At 6:04 PM +0200 2003/09/22, Philip Paeps wrote: > > Trying to convince another ISP as well, but they insist on letting the > > problem fester for a bit *sigh* > > You mean Belgacom? No, I meant Telenet... > Don't hold your breath. I've given up on Belgacom a long time ago... > I think the last person with a clue left there a little while back. *grin* - Philip -- Philip Paeps philip@paeps.cx +32 486 114 720 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 23 02:01:31 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8072B16A4B3 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:01:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB18443FDF for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:01:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.6p3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8N91QUS016134; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 05:01:29 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030923061618.GA645@hermes.nixsys.be> References: <20030922160416.GC635@hermes.nixsys.be> <20030923061618.GA645@hermes.nixsys.be> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:00:49 +0200 To: Philip Paeps From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The net fights back X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:01:31 -0000 At 8:16 AM +0200 2003/09/23, Philip Paeps wrote: >> > Trying to convince another ISP as well, but they insist on letting the >> > problem fester for a bit *sigh* >> >> You mean Belgacom? > > No, I meant Telenet... Oh, well then. At least you have some hope. >> Don't hold your breath. > > I've given up on Belgacom a long time ago... They did still have a couple of clueful people there as of the time I left. But when Skynet got re-absorbed back into the parent company, well ... let's just say that the rats trying to leave the sinking ship were instantaneously turned into roadkill by all the masses who hadn't already gotten outsourced. -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 23 03:55:36 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3560D16A4B3 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 03:55:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.uk.alink.co.za (mail.alink.co.za [213.253.1.230]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E71543FE3 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 03:55:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from george@alink.co.za) Received: from [195.8.70.199] (helo=spoem) by mail.uk.alink.co.za with smtp (Exim 3.36 #5) id 1A1kpS-000A1x-00 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:55:34 +0100 Message-ID: <009301c381c1$6fef4990$c74608c3@spoem> From: "George Barnett" To: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:57:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: 1U rackmount cases X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:55:36 -0000 Hi, I'm looking a relatively inexpensive 1U rackmount case. I just need the case, so if anybody can suggest a good quality case that's a resonable price, please suggest away :) Alternatively, if anybody is throwing out any ancient/broken 1 or 2U servers in the Greater London area, I'd also like to hear from you.. TIA -- George Barnett, Scsa Reality Engineer eml: george@alink.co.za gsm: +44 778 884 7205 www: www.alink.co.za Frisbeetarianism, n.: The belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 23 05:54:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D734616A4B3 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 05:54:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fs5-4.us4.outblaze.com (205-158-62-136.outblaze.com [205.158.62.136]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 22EC843FBF for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 05:54:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luomat@operamail.com) Received: (qmail 10672 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2003 12:52:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Tim) (luomat:operamail.com?operamail.com@68.23.217.147) by 205-158-62-136.outblaze.com with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 12:52:07 -0000 To: Brad Knowles References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> <20030922194015.GA20427@kyblik.pieskovisko.sk> Message-ID: From: Timothy Luoma Organization: http://tntluoma.com Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:54:19 -0400 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera7.20/Win32 M2 build 3144 cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: M2 (Opera) Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:54:55 -0000 On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:52:25 +0200, Brad Knowles wrote: > At 8:18 PM -0400 2003/09/22, Timothy Luoma wrote: > >> http://www.opera.com/support/tutorials/opera/m2/ > > Top posting!!! BLECH!!! See: > > Quick reply > > One unique feature of M2 is "Quick reply" , which is useful for > chat-like conversations. With Quick reply , you can type a short text > that will be appended to the top of the original quoted message. When > you are viewing a mail, type your message in the text box and click on > the "Quick reply" button to send the reply. This will send the reply to > all the recipients of the original e-mail. > > There's a quick reason to hate M2! I have registered my complaint against this with all possible force. I will now forward this message to TPTB as yet another example. TjL -- Toying with the idea of putting Planning to install FreeBSD 4.8-RELEASE on a Dell Inspiron 7500 laptop From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 23 05:58:56 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88EE116A4B3 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 05:58:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fs5-4.us4.outblaze.com (205-158-62-136.outblaze.com [205.158.62.136]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BF67A43FEA for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 05:58:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luomat@operamail.com) Received: (qmail 13954 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2003 12:56:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Tim) (luomat:operamail.com?operamail.com@68.23.217.147) by 205-158-62-136.outblaze.com with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 12:56:10 -0000 To: Brad Knowles References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> <20030922194015.GA20427@kyblik.pieskovisko.sk> Message-ID: From: Timothy Luoma Organization: http://tntluoma.com Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:58:22 -0400 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera7.20/Win32 M2 build 3144 cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: M2 (Opera) Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:58:56 -0000 On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:57:43 +0200, Brad Knowles wrote: > Note that Opera 7 is only available for Windows. ;-( Actually it is also available for FreeBSD (i386), Linux (sparc/ppc/i386), and Solaris. Otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up here. http://www.opera.com/pressreleases/en/2003/09/02/ The MacOS version is still a bit behind. TjL -- Toying with the idea of putting Planning to install FreeBSD 4.8-RELEASE on a Dell Inspiron 7500 laptop From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 23 06:05:37 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C96316A4B3 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:05:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fs5-4.us4.outblaze.com (205-158-62-136.outblaze.com [205.158.62.136]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7D4FA43FCB for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:05:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luomat@operamail.com) Received: (qmail 19061 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2003 13:02:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Tim) (luomat:operamail.com?operamail.com@68.23.217.147) by 205-158-62-136.outblaze.com with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 13:02:51 -0000 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:05:01 -0400 To: Brad Knowles References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> <20030922194015.GA20427@kyblik.pieskovisko.sk> From: Timothy Luoma Organization: http://tntluoma.com Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera7.20/Win32 M2 build 3144 cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: M2 (Opera) Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:05:37 -0000 On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:48:31 +0200, Brad Knowles wrote: > At 8:18 PM -0400 2003/09/22, Timothy Luoma wrote: > > Ahh. The PowerMail solution. Right. Dunno about M2, but I did try > PowerMail. I liked it, I really did. Problem was the database wasn't > robust enough, and kept getting slightly slower as I added more and more > mail. I've got mail going back to 1992. I've got multiple gigabytes of > mail. PowerMail choked. I don't have that much mail, but I was able to use it with 60k messages in an early alpha version. > So, what kind of database does M2 use? Is M2 available for MacOS X? The mechanics are beyond me. M2 is not yet for MacOSX IIRC. > Access Points are basically just "views" into a database table. > PowerMail has been using the "views" name for quite a while. Actually M2 uses that name too. When you create your own filter it is called a "View" > Does it have integrated Bayesian anti-spam filtering? How is it at > applying rules in general to "access points"? I have yet to find > anything that is as good as or better than Eudora, especially Eudora 6, > when it comes to filtering -- save possibly procmail. The spam filter in M2 is not great ATM but I believe it is a planned improvement for the not-too-distant future procmail rocks. I love procmail. Nothing is going to beat procmail. M2 uses the List-Id: header for the mailing list access points. You can choose your own filters as well. Can you get Eudora for FreeBSD? >> Email is also easier to sort and find, because I can store things >> however I want to. Searches are done very quickly, I assume because >> of the way that Opera stores the mail. Which reminds me, that is >> another thing I like about M2: it stores mail in plain-text format. > > I'm confused. I thought you said it used a database? Well, perhaps I'm a bit confused as well, or perhaps I should have said it was "like" a database. Mail is actually stored (in plain text) in files or multiple files on the hard drive, but via M2 the best way to understand it is like a database. Again, the technical part of it is a little beyond me, so I may not be explaining it well. TjL -- Toying with the idea of putting Planning to install FreeBSD 4.8-RELEASE on a Dell Inspiron 7500 laptop From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 23 08:05:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C509B16A4B3 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:05:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fs5-4.us4.outblaze.com (205-158-62-136.outblaze.com [205.158.62.136]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E9CB043FCB for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:05:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luomat@operamail.com) Received: (qmail 17629 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2003 15:02:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Tim) (luomat:operamail.com?operamail.com@68.23.217.147) by 205-158-62-136.outblaze.com with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 15:02:43 -0000 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:05:21 -0400 To: Brad Knowles , Rahul Siddharthan References: <20030923002057.GA1491@online.fr> <200309230117.h8N1HKIk028149@dotar.thuvia.org> <20030923012456.GA2508@online.fr> From: Timothy Luoma Organization: http://tntluoma.com Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera7.20/Win32 M2 build 3144 cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: M2 (Opera) Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:05:30 -0000 On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 03:34:16 +0200, Brad Knowles wrote: > At 9:24 PM -0400 2003/09/22, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > >>> Note that Opera 7 is only available for Windows. ;-( >> >> http://www.opera.com/products/user/index.dml?platform=freebsd >> >> Also available for Linux and Solaris. > > Strange. I checked both FreeBSD and Linux, and could have sworn that > they were only up to 6.x as well. Weird. Dunno how I missed that. Well 6.12 is the latest "release" version, so if you go to the page above it will show just that. But the beta is out http://www.opera.com/download/index.dml?step=2&opsys=FreeBSD%20i386&platform=FreeBSD%20i386 and Opera betas are usually extremely stable IME. Also (shameless plug coming) I'm writing an update for my "30 days to becoming an Opera Lover" series: 30 Days to Becoming an Opera7 Lover: http://www.tntluoma.com/switch Day 1 - Why Opera? http://tntluoma.com/opera/lover/7/01/ Day 2 - Configuration http://tntluoma.com/opera/lover/7/02/ Hate the ads in Opera? http://tntluoma.com/opera/lover/7/ads/ TjL From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 23 08:56:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 068F616A4BF for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:56:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postfix3-1.free.fr (postfix3-1.free.fr [213.228.0.44]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82A2A4401F for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:56:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@online.fr) Received: from imp2-a.free.fr (imp2-a.free.fr [213.228.0.80]) by postfix3-1.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA859C5C3; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:56:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: by imp2-a.free.fr (Postfix, from userid 33) id 9F920FC87; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:56:12 +0200 (MEST) Received: from papagena.rockefeller.edu (papagena.rockefeller.edu [129.85.41.71]) by imp2-a.free.fr (IMP) with HTTP for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:56:12 +0200 Message-ID: <1064332572.3f706d1c7c06a@imp2-a.free.fr> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:56:12 +0200 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Timothy Luoma References: <20030923002057.GA1491@online.fr> <200309230117.h8N1HKIk028149@dotar.thuvia.org> <20030923012456.GA2508@online.fr> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 cc: Brad Knowles cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: M2 (Opera) Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:56:16 -0000 Timothy Luoma wrote: > On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 03:34:16 +0200, Brad Knowles > wrote: > > > At 9:24 PM -0400 2003/09/22, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > > >>> Note that Opera 7 is only available for Windows. ;-( > >> > >> http://www.opera.com/products/user/index.dml?platform=freebsd > >> > >> Also available for Linux and Solaris. > > > > Strange. I checked both FreeBSD and Linux, and could have sworn that > > they were only up to 6.x as well. Weird. Dunno how I missed that. > > Well 6.12 is the latest "release" version, so if you go to the page above > it will show just that. Strange: when I supplied that link, it showed the 7.20 beta version. As presumably it did when Brad replied to my mail. Rahul From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 23 09:50:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B61316A4D7 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:50:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D920D4401A for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:49:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.6p3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8NGnXUa053649; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:49:57 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> <20030922194015.GA20427@kyblik.pieskovisko.sk> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:39:47 +0200 To: Timothy Luoma From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: Brad Knowles cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: M2 (Opera) Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:50:02 -0000 At 9:05 AM -0400 2003/09/23, Timothy Luoma wrote: > Can you get Eudora for FreeBSD? Therein lies the primary fly in that ointment. I think there are at least a couple of PowerPC/MacOS X emulation environments, but that's no better than telling people to use wine or bochs if they want to run a PC-only program (although Eudora is also available for PCs, so those would also be valid options here). -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 23 09:52:09 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E5BC16A4BF for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:52:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fs5-4.us4.outblaze.com (205-158-62-136.outblaze.com [205.158.62.136]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9526044013 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:52:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luomat@operamail.com) Received: (qmail 7177 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2003 16:49:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Tim) (luomat:operamail.com?operamail.com@68.23.221.159) by 205-158-62-136.outblaze.com with SMTP; 23 Sep 2003 16:49:22 -0000 To: Rahul Siddharthan References: <20030923002057.GA1491@online.fr> <200309230117.h8N1HKIk028149@dotar.thuvia.org> <20030923012456.GA2508@online.fr> <1064332572.3f706d1c7c06a@imp2-a.free.fr> Message-ID: From: Timothy Luoma Organization: http://tntluoma.com Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:52:00 -0400 In-Reply-To: <1064332572.3f706d1c7c06a@imp2-a.free.fr> User-Agent: Opera7.20/Win32 M2 build 3144 cc: Brad Knowles cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: M2 (Opera) Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:52:09 -0000 On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:56:12 +0200, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > Timothy Luoma wrote: > >> On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 03:34:16 +0200, Brad Knowles >> >> wrote: >> >> > At 9:24 PM -0400 2003/09/22, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: >> > >> >>> Note that Opera 7 is only available for Windows. ;-( >> >> >> >> http://www.opera.com/products/user/index.dml?platform=freebsd >> >> >> >> Also available for Linux and Solaris. >> > >> > Strange. I checked both FreeBSD and Linux, and could have sworn that >> > they were only up to 6.x as well. Weird. Dunno how I missed that. >> >> Well 6.12 is the latest "release" version, so if you go to the page >> above it will show just that. > > Strange: when I supplied that link, it showed the 7.20 beta version. As > presumably it did when Brad replied to my mail. Opera Software might do some sort of browser sniffing and show different content. I viewed it with a Windows browser. TjL -- Toying with the idea of putting Planning to install FreeBSD 4.8-RELEASE on a Dell Inspiron 7500 laptop From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 23 11:06:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4613E16A4B3 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:06:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shockwave.systems.pipex.net (shockwave.systems.pipex.net [62.241.160.9]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74A2343FF5 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:06:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@thuvia.org) Received: from dotar.thuvia.org (81-178-247-38.dsl.pipex.com [81.178.247.38]) by shockwave.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B18E31C00F41; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:06:38 +0100 (BST) Received: from dotar.thuvia.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dotar.thuvia.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8NI6cPA054780; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:06:38 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@dotar.thuvia.org) Received: (from mark@localhost) by dotar.thuvia.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h8NI6bJu054779; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:06:37 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark) Message-Id: <200309231806.h8NI6bJu054779@dotar.thuvia.org> From: Mark Valentine Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:06:37 +0000 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 beta(5) 10/07/98) To: Rahul Siddharthan cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSDCon photos X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:06:42 -0000 > From: Mark Valentine > Date: Tue 23 Sep, 2003 > Subject: Re: BSDCon photos > Last time I tried Opera it was at least as flaky and just, well, weird. Maybe > I should give it another try, it's been about a year. (Footnote: installed > Opera 6.12 [static] and it seems to run reasonably - didn't drop core until I > exited; anyway, it looks like I can now configure it into something not too > wasteful of screen space - apart from that banner ad - so I'll give it a spin > for a while.) Well, having given Opera another chance, it doesn't look like it passes muster just yet, though it's generally quite promising. Opera 6.12 installed easily enough and generally ran well, but a few things are still a regression from Netscape 4 for me: * mis-layout of tables for the my.yahoo.com page; * some strange rendering (e.g. of button fonts, creating large bold font buttons); * pop-up windows appearing in the wrong virtual desktop under olvwm; * annoying advertising pop-ups (no, I won't pay for their removal in the browser's current state); * one core dump during normal use in my short trial (and one every time I exit) - they're smaller than Netscape's, though! The 7.20 beta wouldn't run for me due to missing libawt - and no, I can't install the JRE port even if I delete the offending mtree file (at least it looks like the FreeBSD Foundation's binary package changes permissions even outside of its target installation directory), due to gtk dependencies. I'll keep it around and try to use it for a few more things, but I'll have to keep Netscape 4 for the tasks Opera doesn't quite hack it for yet. In short, all the whizzy new stuff Opera brings me (its general technical excellence and adherence to modern standards, some neat usability innovations) are of little consequence if it gets basic things wrong when applied to day-to-day tasks. Cheers, Mark. -- "Tigers will do ANYTHING for a tuna fish sandwich." "We're kind of stupid that way." *munch* *munch* -- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 23 11:15:41 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED8C216A4B3 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:15:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 1upmc-msximc2.isdip.upmc.edu (msx.upmc.edu [128.147.18.40]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DBAD43FCB for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:15:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from personrp@ccbh.com) Received: by 1upmc-msximc2.isdip.upmc.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:15:40 -0400 Message-ID: <4BA256918ACE7449BD7896E65711C88B4A7F81@1UPMC-MSX8.isdip.upmc.edu> From: "Person, Roderick" To: 'Mark Valentine' Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:15:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: RE: BSDCon photos X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:15:42 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Valentine [mailto:mark@valentine.me.uk] > > Well, having given Opera another chance, it doesn't look like > it passes muster > just yet, though it's generally quite promising. What version of of FreeBSD are you using? I'm just wondering because I have used Opera on BSD since it became free and was only available as a linux port? I've been using the 7.11 FreeBSD for some months now, but I have never experienced the problems you are having? I will admit that 6.x is visually not that nice with default settings but if you work with the preferences you can get things to look good. Just wondering.... Roderick Person Programmer personrp@ccbh.com http://www.ccbh.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 23 11:18:01 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A32FA16A4BF for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:18:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from seven.Alameda.net (seven.alameda.net [64.81.53.71]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65D7944003 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:17:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ulf@Alameda.net) Received: by seven.Alameda.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3C96C3A201; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:17:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:17:55 -0700 From: Ulf Zimmermann To: George Barnett Message-ID: <20030923181754.GJ5400@seven.alameda.net> References: <009301c381c1$6fef4990$c74608c3@spoem> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <009301c381c1$6fef4990$c74608c3@spoem> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Organization: Alameda Networks, Inc. X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.8-RELEASE-p5 cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 1U rackmount cases X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: ulf@Alameda.net List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:18:01 -0000 On Tue, Sep 23, 2003 at 11:57:10AM +0100, George Barnett wrote: > Hi, > > I'm looking a relatively inexpensive 1U rackmount case. I just need the > case, so if anybody can suggest a good quality case that's a resonable > price, please suggest away :) > > Alternatively, if anybody is throwing out any ancient/broken 1 or 2U servers > in the Greater London area, I'd also like to hear from you.. > > TIA What size of 1U do you need ? For standard atx/miniatx, with 2 drive slots single cpu look at the Supermicro SC512L. It has a 200W power supply and costs US $115 at a local store here. There is also SC512C, which includes CD-Rom and floppy but has only 1 drive slot. Local store sells that one for $199 including the cd-rom and floppy. Both are 14" deep cases, designed for 2 pole rack mount or wallmount, it comes with a bracket to hang it. > > > > > > -- > > George Barnett, Scsa > Reality Engineer > > eml: george@alink.co.za > gsm: +44 778 884 7205 > www: www.alink.co.za > > > Frisbeetarianism, n.: The belief that when you die, your soul goes up on > the roof and gets stuck. > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Regards, Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 You can find my resume at: http://seven.Alameda.net/~ulf/resume.html From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 23 11:29:27 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B107016A4B3 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:29:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shockwave.systems.pipex.net (shockwave.systems.pipex.net [62.241.160.9]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0164243FE1 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:29:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@thuvia.org) Received: from dotar.thuvia.org (81-178-247-38.dsl.pipex.com [81.178.247.38]) by shockwave.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 612781C012B8; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:29:24 +0100 (BST) Received: from dotar.thuvia.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dotar.thuvia.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8NITNPA055362; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:29:23 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@dotar.thuvia.org) Received: (from mark@localhost) by dotar.thuvia.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h8NITNlJ055361; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:29:23 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark) Message-Id: <200309231829.h8NITNlJ055361@dotar.thuvia.org> From: Mark Valentine Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:29:23 +0000 In-Reply-To: <4BA256918ACE7449BD7896E65711C88B4A7F81@1UPMC-MSX8.isdip.upmc.edu> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 beta(5) 10/07/98) To: "Person, Roderick" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: RE: BSDCon photos X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:29:27 -0000 > From: "Person, Roderick" > Date: Tue 23 Sep, 2003 > Subject: RE: BSDCon photos > What version of of FreeBSD are you using? 4.8-STABLE from early June. > I'm just wondering because I have > used Opera on BSD since it became free and was only available as a linux > port? I've been using the 7.11 FreeBSD for some months now, but I have never > experienced the problems you are having? I will admit that 6.x is visually > not that nice with default settings but if you work with the preferences you > can get things to look good. Just wondering.... I just had it dump core on me again a moment ago after I'd opened about a dozen background pages to start reading, grrr... I spent a good couple of hours just trying to tweak the fonts, but couldn't get any general improvement - getting one aspect better would break another. Cheers, Mark. -- "Tigers will do ANYTHING for a tuna fish sandwich." "We're kind of stupid that way." *munch* *munch* -- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 23 11:42:20 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 548F716A4B3 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:42:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 1upmc-msximc2.isdip.upmc.edu (1upmc-msximc2.isdip.upmc.edu [128.147.18.40]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 721684400B for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:42:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from personrp@ccbh.com) Received: by 1upmc-msximc2.isdip.upmc.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:42:06 -0400 Message-ID: <4BA256918ACE7449BD7896E65711C88B41E818@1UPMC-MSX8.isdip.upmc.edu> From: "Person, Roderick" To: 'Mark Valentine' Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:42:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: RE: BSDCon photos X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:42:20 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Valentine [mailto:mark@valentine.me.uk] > > > What version of of FreeBSD are you using? > > 4.8-STABLE from early June. > > > I'm just wondering because I have > > used Opera on BSD since it became free and was only > available as a linux > > port? I've been using the 7.11 FreeBSD for some months now, > but I have never > > experienced the problems you are having? I will admit that > 6.x is visually > > not that nice with default settings but if you work with > the preferences you > > can get things to look good. Just wondering.... > > I just had it dump core on me again a moment ago after I'd > opened about > a dozen background pages to start reading, grrr... That strange, at least to me. I'm running 4.8 stable too. I've had upto 20 sites open and I could count core dumps on one hand for the last year. Most core dumps I see come from site written in microsoft specific code that try and query access or sql. It's nice that you can identify Opera as IE to get into site that only let IE browsers on. I never had to install jre either. It just seemed to me that it my have been more system problem then Opera problem, but if your running 4.8 I don't know. Rod From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 23 12:05:29 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CC0F16A4B3 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:05:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pop018.verizon.net (pop018pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.212]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D6BD43FD7 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:05:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anastasios.karros@verizon.net) Received: from Computer ([138.89.204.121]) by pop018.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.33 201-253-122-126-133-20030313) with ESMTP id <20030923190527.PZDN11703.pop018.verizon.net@Computer> for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:05:27 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c3820f$5fa6e7c0$79cc598a@Computer> From: "Anastasios & Denise Karros" To: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:45:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at pop018.verizon.net from [138.89.204.121] at Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:05:26 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: Please reactivate your Yahoo! Groups account X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:05:29 -0000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 23 13:55:21 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CE8B16A4B3 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from seven.Alameda.net (seven.alameda.net [64.81.53.71]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCA6544005 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:55:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ulf@Alameda.net) Received: by seven.Alameda.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id AEA823A201; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:55:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:55:20 -0700 From: Ulf Zimmermann To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030923205520.GL5400@seven.alameda.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Organization: Alameda Networks, Inc. X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.8-RELEASE-p5 Subject: OT: Java gurus around ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: ulf@Alameda.net List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:55:21 -0000 Hello, a bit off topic but as we got so much bright heads here .... :-) The company I work for got a java application which uses Apache and Tomcat 4x as application server. Also used is Javagroups to provide session state between machines. So far this was run on Solaris Sparc hardware and we have no seen the issues we see now on Linux (baeh, I want to run FreeBSD /rude Oracle, require Oracle 9i libs because of Oracle RAC, libs are being used from Java to connect). On Linux we see the process of Java grow tremendous over the size under Solaris. The bigger problem we see is that memory does not seem to be freed. Garbage collection shows plenty of activity but, the process size stays large and after running a load test (which gets the process size high), then wait 30-40 minutes, start another load test, the process size grows immediatly, which indicates the old memory allocation isn't reused. So something is keeping the memory in use, although not activily touched (Linux starts to swap it out). Now what I am looking for is some form of memory allocation map dump. Something which can tell us what objects maybe have things allocated, so that I can give our developers some hints what direction to look at. So, Java Gurus, any idea ? (me prays for a good answer). -- Regards, Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 You can find my resume at: http://seven.Alameda.net/~ulf/resume.html From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 23 14:17:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96F5016A4B3 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:17:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.bluecirclesoft.com (cvg-65-26-145-190.cinci.rr.com [65.26.145.190]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63B7D43FAF for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:17:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marc.ramirez@bluecirclesoft.com) Received: from www.bluecirclesoft.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) h8NLHnts043075; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:17:50 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mrami@bluecirclesoft.com) Received: (from mrami@localhost) by www.bluecirclesoft.com (8.12.9p1/8.12.9/Submit) id h8NLHnSM043074; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:17:49 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mrami) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:17:49 -0400 From: Marc Ramirez To: Ulf Zimmermann Message-ID: <20030923211749.GA42904@www.bluecirclesoft.com> References: <20030923205520.GL5400@seven.alameda.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030923205520.GL5400@seven.alameda.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: OT: Java gurus around ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:17:53 -0000 On Tue, Sep 23, 2003 at 01:55:20PM -0700, Ulf Zimmermann wrote: > Hello, > > a bit off topic but as we got so much bright heads here .... :-) > > The company I work for got a java application which uses Apache > and Tomcat 4x as application server. Also used is Javagroups to > provide session state between machines. So far this was run on > Solaris Sparc hardware and we have no seen the issues we see now > on Linux (baeh, I want to run FreeBSD /rude Oracle, require > Oracle 9i libs because of Oracle RAC, libs are being used > from Java to connect). > > On Linux we see the process of Java grow tremendous over the > size under Solaris. The bigger problem we see is that memory > does not seem to be freed. Garbage collection shows plenty of > activity but, the process size stays large and after running a > load test (which gets the process size high), then wait 30-40 > minutes, start another load test, the process size grows immediatly, > which indicates the old memory allocation isn't reused. So > something is keeping the memory in use, although not activily > touched (Linux starts to swap it out). > > Now what I am looking for is some form of memory allocation map > dump. Something which can tell us what objects maybe have things > allocated, so that I can give our developers some hints what > direction to look at. > > So, Java Gurus, any idea ? (me prays for a good answer). Your best bet is probably going to be something like JProbe. I've used it before on RedHat - pretty snazzy. Marc. -- Marc Ramirez Blue Circle Software Corporation 513-688-1070 (main) 513-382-1270 (direct) http://www.bluecirclesoft.com http://www.mrami.com (personal) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 24 04:46:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1782F16A4B3 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 04:46:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.7f000001.org (kyblik.pieskovisko.sk [213.215.72.42]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5ABF744013 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 04:45:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from frankie@kyblik.pieskovisko.sk) Received: (qmail 37601 invoked by uid 19508); 24 Sep 2003 11:45:56 -0000 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:45:56 +0200 From: "Michal F. Hanula" To: chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030924114556.GC95745@kyblik.pieskovisko.sk> References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> <20030922194015.GA20427@kyblik.pieskovisko.sk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="QRj9sO5tAVLaXnSD" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Subject: Re: M2 (Opera) Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:46:00 -0000 --QRj9sO5tAVLaXnSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Sep 23, 2003 at 02:57:43AM +0200, Brad Knowles wrote: > Note that Opera 7 is only available for Windows. ;-( All those years I thought I was using FreeBSD. Thanks for opening my eyes. m&f --=20 What do you care what other people think? --QRj9sO5tAVLaXnSD Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/cYP04PY2BaN84VwRAvaTAJ9dDDFuuFc3MipdDxVB/BsMlPoG6ACePVEa wSjz+DNtmA6DElSd9htH2AY= =n+F9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --QRj9sO5tAVLaXnSD-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 26 15:57:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF0EF16A4B3; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:57:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.omnis.com (smtp.omnis.com [216.239.128.26]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40DD744028; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:57:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from salty.rapid.stbernard.com (corp-2.ipinc.com [199.245.188.2]) by smtp-relay.omnis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CC0972DD3; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:57:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr.com To: Rob Lahaye , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:57:13 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.2 References: <3F727CAB.7000708@users.sourceforge.net> In-Reply-To: <3F727CAB.7000708@users.sourceforge.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200309261557.13695.wes@softweyr.com> cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How to generate and test GENERIC-STABLE kernel ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:57:17 -0000 On Wednesday 24 September 2003 22:27, Rob Lahaye wrote: > Hi, > > I was wondering whether the GENERIC files (e.g. in > /usr/src/sys/i386/conf/GENERIC) are also updated when I cvsup the > source-tree for building a new world and kernel. Haven't seen any > change to GENERIC so far. Yes, they are. The GENERIC file isn't changed all that often in STABLE right now, because it is, er, "stable." ;^) > I suppose for testing the new upcoming release, we should also verify > whether the GENERIC kernel works properly, shouldn't we? Yes, that would be nice. > If yes, what's the proper way of doing that? Build a GENERIC kernel, install it, boot it, run a bunch of software on it and make sure it runs adequately. As an interested aside, benchmark something you use a lot on GENERIC and on your custom kernel and verify your custom kernel is at least as fast, perhaps faster, than GENERIC. Alternatively, once the Release Candidate builds start popping up, download ISO images and install from them on a variety of hardware to verify sysinstall & etc. are still functioning well, too. Thank you for volunteering! -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters wes@softweyr.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 26 16:07:08 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9F9C16A4BF for ; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:07:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from main.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.224.249]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DECA44008 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:07:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-chat@m.gmane.org) Received: from list by main.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A31fz-0005qM-00 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 01:07:03 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sea.gmane.org ([80.91.224.252]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A31fy-0005qE-00 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 01:07:02 +0200 Received: from news by sea.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A31fy-0005Kv-00 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 01:07:02 +0200 From: MC Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 01:06:58 +0200 Organization: Temple of the Moby Hack Lines: 13 Message-ID: <874qyzywrx.fsf@fuckup.hack.org> References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org User-Agent: Gnus/5.1001 (Gnus v5.10.1) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) Cancel-Lock: sha1:4m5ei6+PmakZui7PBoHg/eWgCNM= Sender: news Subject: Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:07:09 -0000 Marc Ramirez writes: > So, what are you young hipsters using to read main and filter spam? I'm using the Swiss (well, Nipponese-Norwegian) army chainsaw of e-mail clients: Gnus in Emacs. To weed out the spam, I use a limited amount of the functionality TMDA gives me. TMDA is available in ports and as a package. I read most mailing lists imported to my own News server or via GMANE. MC From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 26 16:13:57 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31DD916A4B3 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:13:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from main.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.224.249]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 263D843F85 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:13:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-chat@m.gmane.org) Received: from list by main.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A31md-0006A4-00 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 01:13:55 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sea.gmane.org ([80.91.224.252]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A31mc-00069w-00 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 01:13:54 +0200 Received: from news by sea.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A31mc-0005W4-00 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 01:13:54 +0200 From: MC Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 01:13:50 +0200 Organization: Temple of the Moby Hack Lines: 19 Message-ID: <87zngrxhw1.fsf@fuckup.hack.org> References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> <28r828bw2q.828@mail.comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org User-Agent: Gnus/5.1001 (Gnus v5.10.1) Emacs/21.3.50 (berkeley-unix) Cancel-Lock: sha1:z0g2/0i3fMU3P36hdxB1c36X0cE= Sender: news Subject: Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:13:57 -0000 Brad Knowles writes: > So, when are you going to be shipping emacsBSD? I mean, it > shouldn't be hard to implement the entire OS inside of emacs, > right? ;-) Some years ago, I actually experimented with a wrapper around Emacs as init, running it as the only userland process. That's the closest I have ever come to a real /live/ LispM, if you don't count looking at what was little more than garbage... It would probably be quite possible to link Emacs with the stuff from the Flux OS Kit and create a standalone operating system as well. I'm really surprised someone hasn't done it yet. I know that the Rice PLT guys did it with their Scheme implementation, for instance, and it supposedly took only five hours to get their new 'SchemeOS' running. MC From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 26 22:37:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BD2216A4B3 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:37:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6010E43FFB for ; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:37:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24854; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:36:43 -0600 (MDT) X-message-flag: Warning! Use of Microsoft Outlook renders your system susceptible to Internet worms. Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030926232741.03a45e70@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:36:39 -0600 To: Brad Knowles , Marc Ramirez From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 05:37:02 -0000 At 10:14 AM 9/22/2003, Brad Knowles wrote: > If you want a GUI MUA that incorporates anti-spam features, I > highly recommend Eudora 6. Eudora has a nice interface. However, it does also have some problems: 1) Searching for text and messages is slow and hogs memory. (A simple search can cause your system to run out of free RAM and start to thrash.) 2) Attachments are "detached" from messages and all stored in ONE SINGLE DIRECTORY instead of in the mailbox where the message is stored. This makes for a huge, cluttered mess in the directory of attachments, and also makes it difficult for other MUAs to import the mail if you decide you want to switch (more on this below). Metadata about messages is likewise stored in an index file in a proprietary format. Losing the index file associated with a mailbox can be a disaster, as can corruption of an index file (which can happen as a result of a system crash). 3) Very few MUAs can successfully import mail from Eudora. Mozilla and Opera fail, most of the time, when they try. So, you may be locked in. And since Eudora runs only on a limited number of platforms, your e-mail usage may be locked into those platforms forever after. 4) The user interface is governed by an INI file which contains many entries in a cryptic and undocumented format. If the INI file gets corrupted, the user interface can literally go berserk -- with windows that you cannot control or manipulate. This has happened a few times to me. 5) Qualcomm now has close ties to Microsoft, and so uses the Internet Explorer rendering engine in Eudora. This opens the door to all sorts of malware. If you turn off the use of MSIE, many messages in HTML format won't render correctly. I have been using Eudora for years, but will likely switch away as soon as I can find an MUA that will import from it correctly. --Brett Glass From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 26 22:44:35 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8378A16A4B3 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:44:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A25564403F for ; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:44:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24907; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:44:26 -0600 (MDT) X-message-flag: Warning! Use of Microsoft Outlook renders your system susceptible to Internet worms. Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030926233937.03b9fee0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:44:21 -0600 To: Timothy Luoma , chat@freebsd.org From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: References: <20030922194015.GA20427@kyblik.pieskovisko.sk> <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> <20030922194015.GA20427@kyblik.pieskovisko.sk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: M2 (Opera) Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 05:44:35 -0000 At 06:18 PM 9/22/2003, Timothy Luoma wrote: >M2 doesn't use folders. Really. Instead it uses what is essentially a database. All of your email goes into the database and is stored in there. Think of it as a circle. All of your email is inside the circle. You can enter the circle from a number of different directions. That's correct. It's all a big database; instead of having "folders," you have "views." The problem is that if this big, monolithic, proprietary-format database gets corrupted, you're hosed. You can lose everything. And because every access is a database query, opening a "view" with a lot of messages in it can be painfully slow. My wife subscribes to several mailing lists, and recently upgraded from an older version of Opera to Opera 7, which uses M2. When she opened a "view" of a mailing list with several thousand messages, everything slowed to a crawl. Paging up or down in the list of messages was annoyingly slow as well. She's now pushing me to find her a better MUA. --Brett Glass From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 26 23:19:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CB0416A4B3 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:19:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 242C04404E for ; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:19:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25142; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 00:19:06 -0600 (MDT) X-message-flag: Warning! Use of Microsoft Outlook renders your system susceptible to Internet worms. Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030926234507.03bace50@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:46:17 -0600 To: Brad Knowles , Timothy Luoma From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> <20030922194015.GA20427@kyblik.pieskovisko.sk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: M2 (Opera) Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 06:19:19 -0000 At 06:48 PM 9/22/2003, Brad Knowles wrote: > I found that Eudora could search through my folders about as quickly as PowerMail could search through the indexes, and Eudora never needed to create the indexes to do that. Actually, Eudora DOES create indices -- on a mailbox by mailbox basis. Much of the time involved in a search is spent doing indexing. --Brett Glass From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 26 23:19:21 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE1C316A4B3 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:19:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8E1C43FE3 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:19:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25145; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 00:19:10 -0600 (MDT) X-message-flag: Warning! Use of Microsoft Outlook renders your system susceptible to Internet worms. Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030926234727.03a48220@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:48:03 -0600 To: Timothy Luoma , Brad Knowles From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: References: <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> <20030922194015.GA20427@kyblik.pieskovisko.sk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: M2 (Opera) Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 06:19:22 -0000 At 06:58 AM 9/23/2003, Timothy Luoma wrote: >On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:57:43 +0200, Brad Knowles wrote: > >> Note that Opera 7 is only available for Windows. ;-( > >Actually it is also available for FreeBSD (i386), Linux (sparc/ppc/i386), and Solaris. Otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up here. Last I heard, the FreeBSD version didn't have the mail client. Has this changed? --Brett From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 27 09:52:22 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B47E116A4B3 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:52:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a.mail.peak.org (a.mail.peak.org [69.59.192.41]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E385043FE5 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:52:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luomat@peak.org) Received: from [69.59.192.81] ([69.59.192.81]) by a.mail.peak.org (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8RGqLUZ099384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 27 Sep 2003 16:52:21 GMT Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:52:21 -0700 (PDT) From: "Timothy J. Luoma" X-X-Sender: luomat@a.shell.peak.org To: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030926233937.03b9fee0@localhost> Message-ID: References: <20030922194015.GA20427@kyblik.pieskovisko.sk> <20030922194015.GA20427@kyblik.pieskovisko.sk> <4.3.2.7.2.20030926233937.03b9fee0@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: -2.5 () EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.29 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: M2 (Opera) Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 16:52:22 -0000 On Fri, 26 Sep 2003, Brett Glass wrote: > At 06:18 PM 9/22/2003, Timothy Luoma wrote: > > >M2 doesn't use folders. Really. Instead it uses what is essentially a database. All of your email goes into the database and is stored in there. Think of it as a circle. All of your email is inside the circle. You can enter the circle from a number of different directions. > > That's correct. It's all a big database; instead of having "folders," you > have "views." > > The problem is that if this big, monolithic, proprietary-format database > gets corrupted, you're hosed. You can lose everything. This is absolutely NOT true of M2. M2 stores the messages in plain-text format. Goto opera:about and find the folder marked Mail directory. Goto the 'storage' subdirectory and you will find your mail in .mbs files. It is also not in one big file either, but in several smaller files. This was done for speed purposes, although I don't know or understand the specifics. > And because every access is a database query, opening a "view" with a > lot of messages in it can be painfully slow. My wife subscribes to > several mailing lists, and recently upgraded from an older version of > Opera to Opera 7, which uses M2. When she opened a "view" of a mailing > list with several thousand messages, everything slowed to a crawl. > Paging up or down in the list of messages was annoyingly slow as well. > She's now pushing me to find her a better MUA. I don't have any views with that many messages in them yet, but I previously used an earlier version of M2 with about 60k messages and found that seemed to be a tipping point. > Last I heard, the FreeBSD version didn't have the mail client. Has > this changed? Yes http://www.opera.com/products/user/m2/index.dml?platform=freebsd TjL From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 27 09:57:40 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8435716A4BF for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:57:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 825BC44001 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:57:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01742; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 10:57:30 -0600 (MDT) X-message-flag: Warning! Use of Microsoft Outlook renders your system susceptible to Internet worms. Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030927105645.02ccceb0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 10:57:21 -0600 To: "Timothy J. Luoma" From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030926233937.03b9fee0@localhost> <20030922194015.GA20427@kyblik.pieskovisko.sk> <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> <20030922194015.GA20427@kyblik.pieskovisko.sk> <4.3.2.7.2.20030926233937.03b9fee0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: M2 (Opera) Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 16:57:40 -0000 At 10:52 AM 9/27/2003, Timothy J. Luoma wrote: >M2 stores the messages in plain-text format. Ah, but there appears to be metadata that's not plain text. --Brett From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 27 10:09:18 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BAC316A4B3 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 10:09:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from b.mail.peak.org (b.mail.peak.org [69.59.192.42]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51FF544014 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 10:09:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luomat@peak.org) Received: from [69.59.192.81] ([69.59.192.81]) by b.mail.peak.org (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8RH9G63011246 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 27 Sep 2003 17:09:17 GMT Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 10:09:16 -0700 (PDT) From: "Timothy J. Luoma" X-X-Sender: luomat@a.shell.peak.org To: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030927105645.02ccceb0@localhost> Message-ID: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030926233937.03b9fee0@localhost> <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20030926233937.03b9fee0@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20030927105645.02ccceb0@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: -2 () EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.29 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: M2 (Opera) Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 17:09:18 -0000 On Sat, 27 Sep 2003, Brett Glass wrote: > At 10:52 AM 9/27/2003, Timothy J. Luoma wrote: > > >M2 stores the messages in plain-text format. > > Ah, but there appears to be metadata that's not plain text. Be that as it may, you wrote "The problem is that if this big, monolithic, proprietary-format database gets corrupted, you're hosed. You can lose everything." That is false. You will not lose email with M2. In the worst-case scenario you can still 'cd' to the directory and 'cat' it all back together into one Berkeley style mbox. If there is metadata in non-plain-text format, that is another matter. Yes I suppose it is possible for that to get corrupted. However I believe that M2 also has a built-in function to re-index when needed. Even if it doesn't, you could still make it into one large mbox as before and then import back into Opera. And let me say that I have been using M2 for as long as it has been available and never had to do that. TjL From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 27 11:40:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26BCF16A4B3 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:40:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from b.mail.peak.org (b.mail.peak.org [69.59.192.42]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74E7844008 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:40:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luomat@peak.org) Received: from [69.59.192.81] ([69.59.192.81]) by b.mail.peak.org (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8RIeq63029556 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 18:40:52 GMT Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:40:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Tim Luoma X-X-Sender: luomat@a.shell.peak.org To: chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: -1 () EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,USER_AGENT_PINE X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.29 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Subject: Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 18:40:53 -0000 On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:36:39 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > 3) Very few MUAs can successfully import mail from Eudora. Mozilla and > Opera fail, most of the time, when they try. So, you may be locked in. > And since Eudora runs only on a limited number of platforms, your e-mail > usage may be locked into those platforms forever after. Have you tried this with Opera 7.2? I know this has been something that they have wanted to work. If you let them know what fails, they'll probably have a better chance of making it work later. Also, does Eudora not export? Any decent MUA should export to mbox format (IMO) but very few do :-/ TjL From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 27 12:53:07 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2782816A4B3 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:53:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wingfoot.org (wingfoot.org [64.32.179.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8D6443FEA for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:53:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ges@wingfoot.org) Received: from localhost (localhost.wingfoot.org [127.0.0.1]) by wingfoot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F8821528E for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:53:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wingfoot.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (caduceus.wingfoot.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07960-08 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:53:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.wingfoot.org (localhost.wingfoot.org [127.0.0.1]) by wingfoot.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 15DCF15289 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:53:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 67.85.96.168 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ges) by www.wingfoot.org with HTTP; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:53:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2493.67.85.96.168.1064692382.squirrel@www.wingfoot.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:53:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Glenn Sieb" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at wingfoot.org Subject: Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 19:53:07 -0000 Tim Luoma said: > Have you tried this with Opera 7.2? I know this has been something that > they have wanted to work. If you let them know what fails, they'll > probably have a better chance of making it work later. > > Also, does Eudora not export? Any decent MUA should export to mbox format > (IMO) but very few do :-/ Umm... when did Eudora *stop* using mbox format? I have version 6 loaded on my machine for certain accounts, and it still appears to be mbox. Yes, they have those ".toc" files, but that's it's way of indexing things--the full text of all emails are stored in individual mbx files, which are just regular plaintext mbox files... Glenn --- The original portions of this message are the copyright of the author (c)1998-2002 Glenn E. Sieb. ICQ UIN: 300395 IRC Nick: Rainbear "All acts of Love and Pleasure are Her rituals"-Charge of the Goddess From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 27 13:03:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46DF416A4B3 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 13:03:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47F3343FE1 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 13:03:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03051; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 14:03:40 -0600 (MDT) X-message-flag: Warning! Use of Microsoft Outlook renders your system susceptible to Internet worms. Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030927140025.0396d9a0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 14:03:34 -0600 To: Tim Luoma , chat@freebsd.org From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 20:03:51 -0000 At 12:40 PM 9/27/2003, Tim Luoma wrote: >Also, does Eudora not export? Nope. On the file menu, there's a conspicuous "Import..." item, but no "Export." The mailbox files are in a UNIX-like format, but attachments are stripped and placed elsewhere and there's lots of metadata in their "index" files. I don't think that Mozilla even has an option to import from Opera. --Brett From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 27 13:50:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C70E16A4B3 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 13:50:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B34B4403D for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 13:50:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03455; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 14:50:33 -0600 (MDT) X-message-flag: Warning! Use of Microsoft Outlook renders your system susceptible to Internet worms. Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030927143947.02d195d0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 14:50:24 -0600 To: "Glenn Sieb" , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: <2493.67.85.96.168.1064692382.squirrel@www.wingfoot.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 20:50:42 -0000 At 01:53 PM 9/27/2003, Glenn Sieb wrote: >Umm... when did Eudora *stop* using mbox format? Their files are in mbox format, but it doesn't contain what your UNIX mailbox would contain if you received the message on a UNIX machine. If you use those files "as-is," you'll lose all of your attachments and metadata. Eudora does not keep metadata as headers, so you can't tell what's been read (for example) unless you can interpret the proprietary index file. It also strips out attachments and removes the "envelope From" information from the message (all you'll see is @@@?@@@). A proper import utility for Eudora has to create the standard header that gives message status, and re-encode and re-attach the attachments. --Brett From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 27 14:04:57 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5E8F16A4B3 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 14:04:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 401FE44037 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 14:04:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.4] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.6p3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h8RL4n67068814; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 17:04:49 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <2493.67.85.96.168.1064692382.squirrel@www.wingfoot.org> References: <2493.67.85.96.168.1064692382.squirrel@www.wingfoot.org> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 22:55:40 +0200 To: "Glenn Sieb" From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 21:04:57 -0000 At 3:53 PM -0400 2003/09/27, Glenn Sieb wrote: > Umm... when did Eudora *stop* using mbox format? I have version 6 loaded > on my machine for certain accounts, and it still appears to be mbox. Yes, > they have those ".toc" files, but that's it's way of indexing things--the > full text of all emails are stored in individual mbx files, which are just > regular plaintext mbox files... The problem is the mailbox separator that Eudora uses. It looks like: From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 17:18:59 2000 In particular, the "???@???" is not right. Moreover, it uses single carriage-return ("^M") characters as an EOL designation, instead of the proper Unix carriage-return/linefeed combo. -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 27 14:26:39 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E114216A4B3 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 14:26:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DE1843FEA for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 14:26:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03719; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:26:27 -0600 (MDT) X-message-flag: Warning! Use of Microsoft Outlook renders your system susceptible to Internet worms. Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030927152341.03b54310@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:26:18 -0600 To: "Timothy J. Luoma" From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030926233937.03b9fee0@localhost> <20030922194015.GA20427@kyblik.pieskovisko.sk> <20030922104213.L335@www.bluecirclesoft.com> <20030922194015.GA20427@kyblik.pieskovisko.sk> <4.3.2.7.2.20030926233937.03b9fee0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: M2 (Opera) Re: What are people using for MUA's nowadays? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 21:26:40 -0000 At 10:52 AM 9/27/2003, Timothy J. Luoma wrote: >Goto opera:about and find the folder marked Mail directory. > >Goto the 'storage' subdirectory and you will find your mail in .mbs >files. Did that. It looks similar to the "mbox" format, but Opera places numbers throughout the file. It also doesn't store metadata in "mbox" style. And because it lumps everything together, you might spend years sorting your mail again after taking it elsewhere. --Brett Glass