From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 7 11:24:56 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B868016A4CE for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 11:24:56 +0000 (GMT) Received: from barman.freepint.com (www.freepint.co.uk [195.177.192.131]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B33A743D4C for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 11:24:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from errors@willco.com) Received: from barman.freepint.com (localhost [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by barman.freepint.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i57BOsPq013695 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 12:24:54 +0100 Received: (from errors@localhost) by barman.freepint.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i57BOrNL013692; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 12:24:53 +0100 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 12:24:53 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: barman.freepint.com: errors set sender to errors@willco.com using -f To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 From: news@mantex.co.uk X-Mailer: Willco Mailer X-Willco-Timestamp: 1086607493 X-Willco-Community: mantex X-Willco-Identifier: 2 X-Willco-Recipient: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: Subject: Mantex Newsletter - Slang + Art + Design + Literature X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: news@mantex.co.uk List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 11:24:56 -0000 -------- MANTEX NEWSLETTER -------- Number 93 - June 2004 - ISSN 1470-1863 Slang - Art - Design - Literature 0----- 'Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English' For unconventional, read 'smu-t', 'swe-aring', 'fi-lth', and 'obs-cenity'. This is a dictionary originally composed in an era when such terms were not supposed to officially exist. Fortunately, Eric Partridge ignored this limitation and produced a number of books on 'unconventional' English which are still of interest today. This is a cut-down version of his classic. It includes only slang which originated in the last hundred years. I put this book to the test only tonight to settle a dinner table argument on 'geek' - and sure enough there was the answer. Full review and details at - http://www.mantex.co.uk/reviews/part-2.htm 0----- Pub Quiz - Question #1 What is a glaive? 0----- Weird facts #1 Attila the Hun bled to death from a nosebleed - on his wedding night. Symbolic? Ironic? 0----- Lesley Hall's "Quirky Stuff" Collection of links to bizarre, curious, and hilariously funny web sites - from Theremin World and urban legends to the Journal of Mundane Behaviour, the Gallery of Misused Quotation Marks and the Apostrophe Protection Society. Great fun at - http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah/webdoc10.htm 0----- Pub Quiz - Question #2 What type of fruit is a jargonelle? 0----- Weird Facts #2 Donald Duck comics were once banned in Finland - because he doesn't wear trousers. It's true. 0----- 'Writing at University' - new edition The newly expanded second edition of this best-seller includes sections on report writing, electronic writing, learning journals, and using the Internet. See full review at - http://www.mantex.co.uk/reviews/creme.htm 0----- Pub Quiz - Question #3 Who wrote 'The Beast in the Jungle'? 0----- Weird Facts #3 Our eyes are always the same size from birth. 0----- 'Windows XP Hacks' - new book XP was the first major re-vamp of the Windows operating system since Windows 95, Most people are so relieved that it's more stable that they don't bother looking beneath the desktop to see what's possible. In fact you can customise and adjust the operating system to an astonishing extent, using tools which are part of XP itself, or are freely available on the Net. All of these procedures are explained in Preston Gralla's new book, which talks you through the procedures in very simple language. There's something here for everybody - from changing your desktop themes and colours, to editing the Registry to boost performance. It's all presented in O'Rielly's impeccable format, with full details of tips, workarounds, and warnings, plus listings of sites for free downloads . Did you know that when you shut down Outlook Express it doesn't really shut down, but continues running in the background. Invaluable advice. Full details and review at - http://www.mantex.co.uk/reviews/gralla.htm 0----- Pub Quiz - Question #4 Who designed the Pompidou Centre in Paris? 0----- Weird Facts #4 Leonardo da Vinci invented scissors. Sharp guy. 0----- The Russian Novel - guidance notes These are 'notes in progress' - Version 1.0 of Russian Literature - prose fiction of the nineteenth and twentieth century. The notes run from Pushkin and 'Eugene Onegin' to Solzhenitsyn's 'Lenin in Zurich' The first part available is the nineteenth century novel: Pushkin, Lermontov, Gogol, Dostoyevski, Tolstoy, and Turgenev. More will follow. Details at - http://www.mantex.co.uk/ou/aa810/rus-19c.htm 0----- Pub Quiz - Question #5 Which river flows through Budapest? 0----- Weird Facts #5 Australia is the only country that is also a continent. 0----- 'Internet Art' - new book The Internet is a brand new medium of communication, and it now has experimental artists exploring the new forms of expression it makes possible. These include HTML galleries, interactive art, video games, and multi-media projects, The possibilities are quite bewildering. All of them are explored in Rachel Greene's new book from the Thames and Hudson cheap-and-cheerful paperback World of Art series. She's very well informed on recent developments, and although you'll have to cope with a pretentious Art School mode of expression, the book is profusely illustrated to give you an idea of what's possible in digital visual arts. Full review at - http://www.mantex.co.uk/reviews/greene.htm 0----- Pub Quiz - Question #6 Which leaves taste of aniseed? 0----- Weird Facts #6 Marilyn Monroe had six toes on one foot. 0----- 'Web Design: Start Here' - new book Ilex books have produced a very stylish series of books on web matters and graphic design. This is an overview of what's required for a good Web site. You don't have to follow every suggestion. It spells out the basics - from page layout to navigation and graphic manipulation, to special effects such as graphic decoration and animated effects. You might need further detailed guidance on any topic, but it's a good coverage of what's required in Web design. And it's another very stylish production from Ilex. Full details and review at - http://www.mantex.co.uk/reviews/nettle.htm 0----- Pub Quiz Question #7 Which two countries are separated by the Skagerrack? 0----- Weird Facts #7 The word 'samba' means 'to rub navels together'. 0----- 'Bloomsbury Rooms' - new book I spotted a superb book on Bloomsbury art the other day. It covers all the obvious topics - the paintings of Vanessa Bell, Duncan Grant, and Roger Fry - but also their domestic interiors, graphic designs, fabrics, and book jackets. There are lots of paintings and photographs I have never seen before, and it's a very handsomely produced work. A must-see for any Bloomsbury fans. Details and links on our Bloomsbury Group page: http://www.mantex.co.uk/ou/a319/bloom-01.htm 0----- Feedback + Corrections Several people emailed to suggest that the largest organ in the human body is not the liver - but the skin. And they're right! Thanks in particular to Simon Gill in the Czech Republic for suggesting a reliable source for confirmation. http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/ And to Elsa Luciano Feal in Puerto Rico for this site: http://kidshealth.org/kid/body/skin_SW.html 0----- Quotable quotes - "The pen is mightier than the sword - and considerably easier to write with." Marty Feldman. 0----- PUB QUIZ - ANSWERS What is a glaive? ANSWER: A sword What type of fruit is a jargonelle? ANSWER: A pear Who wrote 'The Beast in the Jungle'? ANSWER: Henry James Who designed the Pompidou Centre in Paris? ANSWER: Richard Rogers and Renzo Piano Which river flows through Budapest? ANSWER: The Danube Which leaves taste of aniseed? ANSWER: Fennel Which two countries are separated by the Skagerrack? ANSWER: Denmark and Norway 0----- COMING SOON 'Spidering Hacks' - new book 'Web Animation: Start Here' - new book 'Digital Art' - new book (c) Copyright 2004, MANTEX All Rights Reserved PO Box 100 Tel +44 0161 432 5811 Manchester Fax +44 0161 443 2766 M20 6GZ UK www.mantex.co.uk If you like this newsletter, PLEASE FORWARD IT to friends and colleagues. New subscribers should register at the following address -- http://www.mantex.co.uk/newslet.htm BACK ISSUES featuring news items, reviews, and product details at - http://www.mantex.co.uk/news/archive.htm Please retain the copyright and list-joining information. It may be posted, in its entirety or partially, to newsgroups or mailing lists, so long as the copyright and list-joining information remains. If you have any requests, observations, or items you would like to be included in our next issues, just mail us at -- news@mantex.co.uk You receive the MANTEX newsletter because you subscribed to it. If you wish to leave the list, go to -- http://www.mantex.co.uk/newslet.htm News-93-June-2004 ISSN 1470-1863 The British Library From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 9 23:30:10 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2231716A4CE for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 23:30:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pilchuck.reedmedia.net (pilchuck.reedmedia.net [209.166.74.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72B4343D41 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 23:30:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from reed by pilchuck.reedmedia.net with local-esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 1BYCWE-0001im-00; Wed, 09 Jun 2004 16:30:06 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 16:30:06 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: looking for cheap php web hosting X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 23:30:10 -0000 What are the best sites for searching for cheap hosting? I have tried http://www.webhostingratings.com/ and found a few companies for around 50 cents to $3 per month. Or share your suggestions on inexpensive PHP hosting, preferably with SSH access, multiple email accounts and possibility of multiple domains. Thanks, Jeremy C. Reed open source, Unix, *BSD, Linux training http://www.pugetsoundtechnology.com/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 10 07:45:30 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 266A116A4CE for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 07:45:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pegasus.valcatohosting.com (ns1.valcatohosting.com [209.120.238.30]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C82E543D46 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 07:45:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from madcow@moosoft.net) Received: from cpc3-nthc1-4-0-cust42.nrth.cable.ntl.com ([213.107.150.42] helo=[192.168.1.201]) by pegasus.valcatohosting.com with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.24) id 1BYKFL-00037Q-Vr; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:45:12 +0100 From: adam mcmaster To: "Jeremy C. Reed" In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1086853369.3666.4.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:42:50 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - pegasus.valcatohosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - moosoft.net cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: looking for cheap php web hosting X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 07:45:30 -0000 On Thu, 2004-06-10 at 00:30, Jeremy C. Reed wrote: > What are the best sites for searching for cheap hosting? > > I have tried http://www.webhostingratings.com/ and found a few companies > for around 50 cents to $3 per month. > > Or share your suggestions on inexpensive PHP hosting, preferably with SSH > access, multiple email accounts and possibility of multiple domains. > Asking on http://www.webhostingtalk.com/ is always a good idea. Also, I personally recommend that you look at http://www.valcatohosting.com/ (since I work for them). -- adam mcmaster From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 10 12:33:11 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D075D16A4CE; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:33:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3FEB43D5C; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:33:11 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C461E3D34; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:33:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dan Langille" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:33:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <40C81CC2.462.56C204AE@localhost> Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Ottawa - pizza+beer X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:33:12 -0000 Today is the second Thursday of the month. That means a bunch of people interested in BSD (and other things) meet tonight, at 6pm, at the Colonnade, 280 Metcalfe at Gilmour St. While not compulsory, most of us will be having pizza and beer. If you're looking for us, ask the staff for the computer group. see you then -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - http://www.bsdcan.org/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 10 23:33:00 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27BBD16A4D1 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 23:33:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-in-03.arcor-online.net (mail-in-03.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.43]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DB0C43D54 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 23:32:59 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mailnull@mips.inka.de) Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (dsl-082-082-079-240.arcor-ip.net [82.82.79.240]) by mail-in-03.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B68E7C398FC for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 01:32:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i5ANWOjf046177 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 01:32:24 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mailnull@kemoauc.mips.inka.de) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i5ANWNng046176 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 01:32:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mailnull) From: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 23:32:23 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: Originator: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: BtVS: UK or US DVDs? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 23:33:00 -0000 Clearly a question appropriate for this geek forum: I'm out to buy _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_ (the TV series that is) on DVD. Should I get the UK or US sets? -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 00:36:40 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C69C816A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 00:36:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CE6A43D49 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 00:36:40 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mail.pcnet.com (8.12.10/8.12.1) with ESMTP id i5B0ad6x013739; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 20:36:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 20:36:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Eischen X-Sender: eischen@pcnet5.pcnet.com To: Christian Weisgerber In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BtVS: UK or US DVDs? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: deischen@freebsd.org List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 00:36:40 -0000 On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, Christian Weisgerber wrote: > Clearly a question appropriate for this geek forum: > > I'm out to buy _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_ (the TV series that is) on > DVD. Should I get the UK or US sets? I've only the US version, but a little googling yields this: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=3d208df9%40news.broadpark.no&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3DDVD%2BUK%2Bor%2BUS%2Bversion%2Bgroup:alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26selm%3D3d208df9%2540news.broadpark.no%26rnum%3D1 http://groups.google.com/groups?q=DVD+R1+or+R2+version+group:alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=7bce31ab.0307100705.16e1fa0c%40posting.google.com&rnum=1 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 04:42:25 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B373C16A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 04:42:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47A3143D2D for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 04:42:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mail.pcnet.com (8.12.10/8.12.1) with ESMTP id i5B4g06x002618; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 00:42:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 00:42:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Eischen X-Sender: eischen@pcnet5.pcnet.com To: Will Andrews In-Reply-To: <20040611043039.GB99784@sirius.firepipe.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: Mark Linimon cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: updated architectural feature chart X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 04:42:25 -0000 [ moved to chat for lack ] On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, Will Andrews wrote: > On Thu, Jun 10, 2004 at 09:40:32PM -0500, Mark Linimon wrote: > > My recommendation: go vertical. The cheapest way it to go find > > one of those stainless steel open-wire shelf units like they use > > in restaurant kitchens. Container Store has real nice ones but > > other places probably have them cheaper (I got mine on sale). > > > > It's the only way I can fit into an 1100 ft**2 house. > > I got a 24U rack from a salvage shop for $10. Bought three > shelves for the non-RM machines for $80 or so. Works great. :) Now that's what I'd love. We got dozen's of 19" racks at work, but they're not a pen or pencil. You try and take one home, someone will notice :( -- Dan Eischen From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 07:42:40 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4503716A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 07:42:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pcwin002.win.tue.nl (pcwin002.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.72]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 998FD43D4C for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 07:42:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from stijn@pcwin002.win.tue.nl) Received: from pcwin002.win.tue.nl (orb_rules@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pcwin002.win.tue.nl (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i5B7gbqI036658 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:42:37 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from stijn@pcwin002.win.tue.nl) Received: (from stijn@localhost) by pcwin002.win.tue.nl (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i5B7gbhj036657 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:42:37 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from stijn) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:42:37 +0200 From: Stijn Hoop To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040611074236.GA28983@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ikeVEW9yuYc//A+q" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Bright-Idea: Let's abolish HTML mail! Subject: for dutch FreeBSD hackers wanting to get SUN hardware X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 07:42:40 -0000 --ikeVEW9yuYc//A+q Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You'll have to be quick, bidding lasts until 17:00 CEST today. http://bva-auctions.com/auction/auction/categories.asp?act=3Dsubcat&did=3D3= 7&cid=3D13&scid=3D125 Lots of Ultra-5, mostly incomplete but a few only missing the monitor. At 20 euro's a piece (ex BTW) IMHO it's a bargain. --Stijn --=20 SIGSIG -- signature too long (core dumped) --ikeVEW9yuYc//A+q Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFAyWJsY3r/tLQmfWcRApvmAJ4jkfQCc1GW8MmBxBF8LOB74xOAnwCfQneO Dm1QIhEIiv+g5fsWbup8z34= =FiF3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ikeVEW9yuYc//A+q-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 08:13:54 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FBFF16A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 08:13:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 524A843D5E for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 08:13:53 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.11/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i5B8Dd30023970; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 04:13:49 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20040611074236.GA28983@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> References: <20040611074236.GA28983@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:13:22 +0200 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Linuxbierwanderung Mailing List , SAGE-WISE mailing list From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: Re: for dutch FreeBSD hackers wanting to get SUN hardware X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 08:13:54 -0000 At 9:42 AM +0200 2004-06-11, Stijn Hoop wrote: > You'll have to be quick, bidding lasts until 17:00 CEST today. > >http://bva-auctions.com/auction/auction/categories.asp?act=subcat&did=37&cid=13&scid=125 > > Lots of Ultra-5, mostly incomplete but a few only missing the monitor. At > 20 euro's a piece (ex BTW) IMHO it's a bargain. Prices go up to 40 Euro for the faster machines with more memory (400MHz, 256MB RAM), and there are not many left. Get them while they're hot! -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 09:34:48 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6297416A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:34:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from faceman.servitor.co.uk (faceman.servitor.co.uk [80.71.15.146]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30AEF43D46 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:34:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wiggy@servitor.co.uk) Received: from wiggy by faceman.servitor.co.uk with local (Exim 4.30) id 1BYiR4-0005QI-Qf; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:34:54 +0100 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:34:54 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: Christian Weisgerber Message-ID: <20040611093454.GL70693@iconoplex.co.uk> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Sender: Paul Robinson cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BtVS: UK or US DVDs? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:34:48 -0000 On Thu, Jun 10, 2004 at 11:32:23PM +0000, Christian Weisgerber wrote: > I'm out to buy _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_ (the TV series that is) on > DVD. Should I get the UK or US sets? I would suggest "neither". However, of course, it's technically illegal for you to buy DVDs licensed for a region in which you do not reside. That's the point of putting regions on DVDs. So if you want to sleep easily at night and don't want your door kicking in by a bunch of fascist copyright lawyers, I suggest if you live in North America, buy the US boxset. If you live in Europe, buy the region 2 boxset. -- Paul Robinson http://www.iconoplex.co.uk/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 09:47:51 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE09916A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:47:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from faceman.servitor.co.uk (faceman.servitor.co.uk [80.71.15.146]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E00843D49 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:47:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wiggy@servitor.co.uk) Received: from wiggy by faceman.servitor.co.uk with local (Exim 4.30) id 1BYidB-0005Rn-Qh; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:47:25 +0100 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:47:25 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: Daniel Eischen Message-ID: <20040611094725.GM70693@iconoplex.co.uk> References: <20040611043039.GB99784@sirius.firepipe.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Sender: Paul Robinson cc: Mark Linimon cc: chat@freebsd.org cc: Will Andrews Subject: Re: updated architectural feature chart X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:47:52 -0000 On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 12:42:00AM -0400, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > I got a 24U rack from a salvage shop for $10. Bought three > > shelves for the non-RM machines for $80 or so. Works great. :) > > Now that's what I'd love. We got dozen's of 19" racks at work, > but they're not a pen or pencil. You try and take one home, > someone will notice :( Oh, come now, that's not the enterprising spirit we want here. That sounds like defeatism! Have you *tried* stealing one of the racks? I bet if you went up to your manager and said "I'm going to steal one of the racks after work tonight" he wouldn't believe you. If he does, convince him he should have one too, and get him to help you take two racks out of the building that night. If somebody should notice, make up a story about some shifty-looking bikers hanging around near the back door the previous day. If you get caught, tell them it was all your boss' idea, and you were told if you didn't help him steal a rack, he was going to have you fired. And that he's been sexually harrassing you. End result - shiny rack in your home. -- Paul Robinson http://www.iconoplex.co.uk/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 10:00:49 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE24016A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:00:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fep3.cogeco.net (smtp.cogeco.net [216.221.81.25]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A03343D1D for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:00:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from paul.murphy@cogeco.ca) Received: from earth.upton.net (d141-23-108.home.cgocable.net [24.141.23.108]) by fep3.cogeco.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8CE2C37AB for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 06:00:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 06:00:18 -0400 From: Paul Murphy To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20040611060018.722726a5@earth.upton.net> In-Reply-To: References: <20040611074236.GA28983@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.10claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) X-Face: -Q/~XHbe$z/a List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:00:50 -0000 --Signature=_Fri__11_Jun_2004_06_00_18_-0400_ucGIjgtsrUigVBkN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:13:22 +0200 Brad Knowles wrote: > At 9:42 AM +0200 2004-06-11, Stijn Hoop wrote: > > > You'll have to be quick, bidding lasts until 17:00 CEST today. > > > >http://bva-auctions.com/auction/auction/categories.asp?act=subcat&di > >d=37&cid=13&scid=125 > > > > Lots of Ultra-5, mostly incomplete but a few only missing the > > monitor. At 20 euro's a piece (ex BTW) IMHO it's a bargain. > > Prices go up to 40 Euro for the faster machines with more memory > > (400MHz, 256MB RAM), and there are not many left. Get them while > they're hot! > Somewhat off topic. I almost bought a Sun workstation a a computer show but could not see if a regular (PC) monitor would plug in to a Sun. They were selling Sun monitors at the table but they were more than I was willing to spend on 'experimental' computer equipment. So my question is: will PC peripherals attach to a Sun box? -- Cogeco ergo sum --Signature=_Fri__11_Jun_2004_06_00_18_-0400_ucGIjgtsrUigVBkN Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFAyYK42Ev+mfbss0wRAo25AKDSa2jON/KnI+BzPENnSX3JaHvAqQCgo/G8 7fXQjwzuGYdQxfM+ItM7tK8= =CBL8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Signature=_Fri__11_Jun_2004_06_00_18_-0400_ucGIjgtsrUigVBkN-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 10:09:54 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7950B16A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:09:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBB9743D49 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:09:53 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.11/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i5BA9bkU035529; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 06:09:42 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20040611093454.GL70693@iconoplex.co.uk> References: <20040611093454.GL70693@iconoplex.co.uk> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:08:25 +0200 To: Paul Robinson From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: Christian Weisgerber cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BtVS: UK or US DVDs? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:09:54 -0000 At 10:34 AM +0100 2004-06-11, Paul Robinson wrote: > I would suggest "neither". However, of course, it's technically illegal for > you to buy DVDs licensed for a region in which you do not reside. That's the > point of putting regions on DVDs. No, it's not illegal at all. It's perfectly legal to buy Region One DVDs and have them shipped to Europe (or elsewhere), and it's legal to buy Region Two DVDs and have them shipped to the US (or elsewhere). However, they have tighter controls on where you can buy DVD players that can handle specific region encoding. This means that if you're a US citizen and you bring your Region One DVD player with you when you move to Europe, you have no problem buying DVDs via Amazon.com (or wherever), having them shipped to Europe, and paying out the wazoo in terms of taxes and import duties. But you can still buy them and watch them on your Region One DVD player (NTSC output to most TVs over here works just fine). Been there, done that, many, many times. I've got a whole Amazon wish list that is almost nothing but DVDs, and my family dutifully helps me get what I put up there, since they otherwise have absolutely no idea what to get me for my birthday or Christmas. There are even whole magazines published in the UK (and presumably elsewhere) that are devoted to reviewing Region One DVDs as soon as possible, so that their readers can contact one of the advertisers to buy the desired product. Same with buying Region Two DVDs at Amazon.co.uk (or wherever) and shipping them to the US. Typically, the Region One DVDs that are released are better than the equivalent DVDs released in any other region. They have better encoding, more special features, etc.... In my experience, the only time where this rule has fallen down has been when the movie in question is not American (e.g., the Harry Potter films). Then they tend to make the best DVDs for their local market (wherever that is), and the Region One DVDs tend to suffer. As far as TV programs are concerned, I don't know that there is any significant difference. However, from a technical perspective, I can tell you that it's not too hard to buy DVD players over here that can be configured or easily modified to play Region One DVDs, and include features to automatically convert NTSC output to PAL. You can also buy TVs over here that can take NTSC input and convert that to PAL for display. But finding equipment in the US that can play non-Region One DVDs is much, much harder. Same for finding equipment in the US that can deal with PAL. -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 10:27:47 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABB3A16A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:27:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F4AC43D31 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:27:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.11/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i5BARTB7036502; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 06:27:34 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20040611060018.722726a5@earth.upton.net> References: <20040611074236.GA28983@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> <20040611060018.722726a5@earth.upton.net> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:12:39 +0200 To: Paul Murphy From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: for dutch FreeBSD hackers wanting to get SUN hardware X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:27:47 -0000 At 6:00 AM -0400 2004-06-11, Paul Murphy wrote: > I almost bought a Sun workstation a a computer show but could not see > if a regular (PC) monitor would plug in to a Sun. They were selling Sun > monitors at the table but they were more than I was willing to spend on > 'experimental' computer equipment. > > So my question is: will PC peripherals attach to a Sun box? Depends on the box. For UltraSPARC 5s, the answer is most definitely yes -- Sun built them with mostly standard PC components, including VGA output, PCI card slots, IDE hard drives & CD-ROM drives, DIMM slots, PS/2 keyboard & mouse connectors, etc.... About the only non-PC standard component was the CPU. For older Suns, the answer is probably no. For bigger/faster/newer UltraSPARC boxes, the answer is maybe. -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 10:28:55 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 389F316A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:28:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF69143D45 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:28:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mail.pcnet.com (8.12.10/8.12.1) with ESMTP id i5BASh6x022941; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 06:28:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 06:28:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Eischen X-Sender: eischen@pcnet5.pcnet.com To: Paul Robinson In-Reply-To: <20040611094725.GM70693@iconoplex.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: Mark Linimon cc: chat@freebsd.org cc: Will Andrews Subject: Re: updated architectural feature chart X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:28:55 -0000 On Fri, 11 Jun 2004, Paul Robinson wrote: > On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 12:42:00AM -0400, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > > > I got a 24U rack from a salvage shop for $10. Bought three > > > shelves for the non-RM machines for $80 or so. Works great. :) > > > > Now that's what I'd love. We got dozen's of 19" racks at work, > > but they're not a pen or pencil. You try and take one home, > > someone will notice :( > > Oh, come now, that's not the enterprising spirit we want here. That sounds > like defeatism! Have you *tried* stealing one of the racks? I bet if you > went up to your manager and said "I'm going to steal one of the racks after > work tonight" he wouldn't believe you. If he does, convince him he should > have one too, and get him to help you take two racks out of the building > that night. > > If somebody should notice, make up a story about some shifty-looking bikers > hanging around near the back door the previous day. If you get caught, tell > them it was all your boss' idea, and you were told if you didn't help him > steal a rack, he was going to have you fired. And that he's been sexually > harrassing you. It's like a prison where I work (defense contractor). There are guards, guns, & security gates, oh my. The sexual harrassment claim has the best chance of working, though ;-) > End result - shiny rack in your home. Or a guard's night stick shoved up my bum. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 10:31:50 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23F2A16A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:31:50 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD08943D41 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:31:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: from mail.pcnet.com (mail.pcnet.com [204.213.232.4]) by mail.pcnet.com (8.12.10/8.12.1) with ESMTP id i5BAVd6x023634; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 06:31:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 06:31:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Eischen X-Sender: eischen@pcnet5.pcnet.com To: Brad Knowles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: Paul Murphy cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: for dutch FreeBSD hackers wanting to get SUN hardware X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:31:50 -0000 On Fri, 11 Jun 2004, Brad Knowles wrote: > At 6:00 AM -0400 2004-06-11, Paul Murphy wrote: > > > I almost bought a Sun workstation a a computer show but could not see > > if a regular (PC) monitor would plug in to a Sun. They were selling Sun > > monitors at the table but they were more than I was willing to spend on > > 'experimental' computer equipment. > > > > So my question is: will PC peripherals attach to a Sun box? > > Depends on the box. For UltraSPARC 5s, the answer is most > definitely yes -- Sun built them with mostly standard PC components, > including VGA output, PCI card slots, IDE hard drives & CD-ROM > drives, DIMM slots, PS/2 keyboard & mouse connectors, etc.... About > the only non-PC standard component was the CPU. You can get adapters that convert from vga to sun video, and from sun keyboard/mouse to PS/2 keyboard mouse. Raritan (www.raritan.com) makes them, and can probably get cheaper alternatives elsewhere. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 11:15:16 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D52616A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:15:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fep4.cogeco.net (smtp.cogeco.net [216.221.81.25]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E48AA43D45 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:15:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from paul.murphy@cogeco.ca) Received: from earth.upton.net (d141-23-108.home.cgocable.net [24.141.23.108]) by fep4.cogeco.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 85A992FEC; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 07:14:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 07:14:51 -0400 From: Paul Murphy To: Daniel Eischen Message-Id: <20040611071451.00858117@earth.upton.net> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.10claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="pgp-sha1"; boundary="Signature=_Fri__11_Jun_2004_07_14_51_-0400_.I3p=4gRUUMAL0S5" cc: Brad Knowles cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: for dutch FreeBSD hackers wanting to get SUN hardware X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:15:16 -0000 --Signature=_Fri__11_Jun_2004_07_14_51_-0400_.I3p=4gRUUMAL0S5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 06:31:39 -0400 (EDT) Daniel Eischen wrote: > On Fri, 11 Jun 2004, Brad Knowles wrote: > > > At 6:00 AM -0400 2004-06-11, Paul Murphy wrote: > > > > > I almost bought a Sun workstation a a computer show but could > > > not see > > > if a regular (PC) monitor would plug in to a Sun. They were > > > selling Sun monitors at the table but they were more than I was > > > willing to spend on'experimental' computer equipment. > > > > > > So my question is: will PC peripherals attach to a Sun box? > > > > Depends on the box. For UltraSPARC 5s, the answer is most > > definitely yes -- Sun built them with mostly standard PC components, > > including VGA output, PCI card slots, IDE hard drives & CD-ROM > > drives, DIMM slots, PS/2 keyboard & mouse connectors, etc.... About > > the only non-PC standard component was the CPU. > > You can get adapters that convert from vga to sun video, and > from sun keyboard/mouse to PS/2 keyboard mouse. Raritan > (www.raritan.com) makes them, and can probably get cheaper > alternatives elsewhere. > > > (Note: Sylpheed crashed when I sent my last reply so if this a duplicate I beg your pardon) I am glad now that I thought twice about buying the Sun box. I was definitely and older (used) machine. With these comments in mind I will be seriously temped to buy one at the next Compufest just for the fun of getting FreeBSD up an running. -- Cogeco ergo sum --Signature=_Fri__11_Jun_2004_07_14_51_-0400_.I3p=4gRUUMAL0S5 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFAyZQx2Ev+mfbss0wRAnooAKCuBaxZQ5zZuR1dmRXCZBzWmywyhgCgwcIc YTbZgntD5/c1gFVWc/W1zNM= =fFrt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Signature=_Fri__11_Jun_2004_07_14_51_-0400_.I3p=4gRUUMAL0S5-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 12:01:39 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22B2416A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:01:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-in-01.arcor-online.net (mail-in-01.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.41]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4369943D5E for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:01:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mailnull@mips.inka.de) Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (dsl-082-082-079-240.arcor-ip.net [82.82.79.240]) by mail-in-01.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB3D1C03499 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:01:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i5BC1IWw093985 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:01:18 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mailnull@kemoauc.mips.inka.de) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i5BC1IDS093984 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:01:18 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mailnull) From: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:01:17 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <20040611093454.GL70693@iconoplex.co.uk> Originator: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BtVS: UK or US DVDs? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:01:39 -0000 Paul Robinson wrote: > > I'm out to buy _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_ (the TV series that is) on > > DVD. Should I get the UK or US sets? > > I would suggest "neither". Could you expand on that? I thought those were the basic choices, but I guess there are also other region editions than R1 and R2 and apparently multiple editions at least within R2. > However, of course, it's technically illegal for you to buy DVDs > licensed for a region in which you do not reside. This is far from certain and probably differs by country. Anyway, let's ignore this concern for now. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 14:30:56 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B7F416A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:30:56 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp.des.no (flood.des.no [217.116.83.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C07343D31 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:30:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: by smtp.des.no (Pony Express, from userid 666) id 2C460530A; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:30:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from dwp.des.no (des.no [80.203.228.37]) by smtp.des.no (Pony Express) with ESMTP id CC6C45309; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:30:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 726E333C71; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:30:42 +0200 (CEST) To: Paul Robinson References: <20040611093454.GL70693@iconoplex.co.uk> From: des@des.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:30:42 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20040611093454.GL70693@iconoplex.co.uk> (Paul Robinson's message of "Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:34:54 +0100") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on flood.des.no X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.63 cc: Christian Weisgerber cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BtVS: UK or US DVDs? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:30:56 -0000 Paul Robinson writes: > I would suggest "neither". However, of course, it's technically illegal f= or > you to buy DVDs licensed for a region in which you do not reside. Only in the MPAA's wet dreams. In fact, the region coding system itself is probably illegal in most western countries. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 15:01:39 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8630A16A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:01:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E44443D2F for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:01:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rsidd@online.fr) Received: from user-0cdfem3.cable.mindspring.com ([24.215.186.195] helo=papagena.rockefeller.edu) by goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BYnXG-0003fj-00 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 08:01:38 -0700 Received: (qmail 1575 invoked by uid 1002); 11 Jun 2004 15:01:37 -0000 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:01:37 -0400 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Brad Knowles Message-ID: <20040611150137.GA1557@online.fr> Mail-Followup-To: Brad Knowles , Paul Robinson , Christian Weisgerber , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <20040611093454.GL70693@iconoplex.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.23 i686 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i cc: Paul Robinson cc: Christian Weisgerber cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BtVS: UK or US DVDs? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:01:39 -0000 Brad Knowles said on Jun 11, 2004 at 12:08:25: > At 10:34 AM +0100 2004-06-11, Paul Robinson wrote: > > > I would suggest "neither". However, of course, it's technically illegal for > > you to buy DVDs licensed for a region in which you do not reside. That's the > > point of putting regions on DVDs. > > No, it's not illegal at all. It's perfectly legal to buy Region > One DVDs and have them shipped to Europe (or elsewhere), When I lived in Paris (around two years ago), the Virgin Megastore there -- hardly an underground operation -- had an entire section of Region 1 DVDs. I bought a couple myself, and one of them had dire warnings about the alleged illegality of selling it outside the US and Canada, which didn't seem to bother the store. Rahul From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 18:47:52 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3C8116A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 18:47:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp.nildram.co.uk (smtp.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.54]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5766543D39 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 18:47:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (parish.gotadsl.co.uk [62.3.235.43]) by smtp.nildram.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8085524DED7 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 19:47:26 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <40C9FEC4.5020304@ukug.uk.freebsd.org> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 19:49:40 +0100 From: Mark Ovens User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 7.0 (Windows/20040601) X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <20040611093454.GL70693@iconoplex.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: BtVS: UK or US DVDs? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 18:47:52 -0000 Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Paul Robinson writes: >> I would suggest "neither". However, of course, it's technically illegal for >> you to buy DVDs licensed for a region in which you do not reside. > > Only in the MPAA's wet dreams. In fact, the region coding system > itself is probably illegal in most western countries. > It certainly is in New Zealand. http://web.archive.org/web/20000303075444/www.opendvd.org/regioncode.html (Section headed "Market differentiation") Mark > DES From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 18:56:27 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A6F416A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 18:56:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp.nildram.co.uk (smtp.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.54]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D098243D2D for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 18:56:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (parish.gotadsl.co.uk [62.3.235.43]) by smtp.nildram.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B29024F763 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 19:50:02 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <40C9FF62.7050409@ukug.uk.freebsd.org> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 19:52:18 +0100 From: Mark Ovens User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 7.0 (Windows/20040601) X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <20040611093454.GL70693@iconoplex.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: BtVS: UK or US DVDs? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 18:56:27 -0000 Christian Weisgerber wrote: > Paul Robinson wrote: > >> > I'm out to buy _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_ (the TV series that is) on >> > DVD. Should I get the UK or US sets? >> >> I would suggest "neither". > > Could you expand on that? I think he was passing comment on the TV series itself :-) Mark From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 19:46:47 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 071E516A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 19:46:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pd4mo3so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D86C943D2F for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 19:46:46 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from flowers@users.sourceforge.net) Received: from pd5mr1so.prod.shaw.ca (pd5mr1so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.232]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HZ50094YSPPOQ@l-daemon> for chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:27:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml1so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.145]) by pd5mr1so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0HZ50082RSPOX9U0@pd5mr1so.prod.shaw.ca> for chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:27:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sirius (S0106004001438e5b.cg.shawcable.net [68.144.47.89]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with SMTP id <0HZ50020BSPOZP@l-daemon> for chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:27:24 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:27:23 -0600 From: Dan MacMillan In-reply-to: <20040611094725.GM70693@iconoplex.co.uk> To: Paul Robinson Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: RE: updated architectural feature chart X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 19:46:47 -0000 You know, Johnny Cash came up with the solution to this particular problem a long time ago. By the way, that was hilarious! -- Danny -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of Paul Robinson Sent: June 11, 2004 03:47 To: Daniel Eischen Cc: Mark Linimon; chat@freebsd.org; Will Andrews Subject: Re: updated architectural feature chart On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 12:42:00AM -0400, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > I got a 24U rack from a salvage shop for $10. Bought three > > shelves for the non-RM machines for $80 or so. Works great. :) > > Now that's what I'd love. We got dozen's of 19" racks at work, > but they're not a pen or pencil. You try and take one home, > someone will notice :( Oh, come now, that's not the enterprising spirit we want here. That sounds like defeatism! Have you *tried* stealing one of the racks? I bet if you went up to your manager and said "I'm going to steal one of the racks after work tonight" he wouldn't believe you. If he does, convince him he should have one too, and get him to help you take two racks out of the building that night. If somebody should notice, make up a story about some shifty-looking bikers hanging around near the back door the previous day. If you get caught, tell them it was all your boss' idea, and you were told if you didn't help him steal a rack, he was going to have you fired. And that he's been sexually harrassing you. End result - shiny rack in your home. -- Paul Robinson http://www.iconoplex.co.uk/ _______________________________________________ freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 21:07:02 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4593016A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:07:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from probity.mcc.ac.uk (probity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.94]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C2DA43D1F for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:07:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jcm@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by probity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BYtEp-0009HW-K2 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 22:06:59 +0100 Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) i5BL6xuf006008 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 22:06:59 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.12.10/8.12.6/Submit) id i5BL6xrJ006007 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 22:06:59 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 22:06:58 +0100 From: Jonathon McKitrick To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040611210658.GB5926@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Spam-Score: -4.9 (----) X-Scanner: exiscan for exim4 (http://duncanthrax.net/exiscan/) *1BYtEp-0009HW-K2*9EOm7RUBuMM* Subject: OT: how does software publishing work? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:07:02 -0000 When I used to look at the boxes all my games came in, there were always a bunch of company names on it. When I had an Amiga, Psygnosis was known for always putting out good games. However, the games often started: 'Psygnosis presents... a XYZ game...' Today I read that Valve, Inc. is hoping to deliver Half Life 2 to game publisher Vivendi Universal Games. How does the relationship work between writers and publishers of software? If, for example, Psygnosis was known for high-quality graphics intensive games, yet they were only the publishers, how were they able to find such a continual supply of games that met their standards? What jm -- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 22:14:52 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A65E16A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 22:14:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp.des.no (flood.des.no [217.116.83.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E715B43D39 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 22:14:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: by smtp.des.no (Pony Express, from userid 666) id C9BBF530A; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 00:14:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from dwp.des.no (des.no [80.203.228.37]) by smtp.des.no (Pony Express) with ESMTP id 643E95309; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 00:14:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 12F5233C71; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 00:14:19 +0200 (CEST) To: Jonathon McKitrick References: <20040611210658.GB5926@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> From: des@des.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 00:14:18 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20040611210658.GB5926@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> (Jonathon McKitrick's message of "Fri, 11 Jun 2004 22:06:58 +0100") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on flood.des.no X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.63 cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: OT: how does software publishing work? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 22:14:52 -0000 Jonathon McKitrick writes: > How does the relationship work between writers and publishers of software? Badly. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 12 16:50:32 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DC4316A4CE for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 16:50:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from faceman.servitor.co.uk (faceman.servitor.co.uk [80.71.15.146]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDC7D43D4C for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 16:50:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wiggy@servitor.co.uk) Received: from wiggy by faceman.servitor.co.uk with local (Exim 4.30) id 1BZBha-000EXB-Rt; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 17:49:54 +0100 Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 17:49:54 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: Jonathon McKitrick Message-ID: <20040612164954.GN22757@iconoplex.co.uk> References: <20040611210658.GB5926@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040611210658.GB5926@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Sender: Paul Robinson cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: OT: how does software publishing work? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 16:50:32 -0000 On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 10:06:58PM +0100, Jonathon McKitrick wrote: > How does the relationship work between writers and publishers of software? The same way that the relationship between publishing houses and writers works. O'Reilly is not in the business of chick-lit, and Mills & Boon have not yet publised a comprehensive guide on the internals of BIND and DNS. Likewise, a small independent record label is unlikely to sign Britney Spears because they wouldn't know how to market her music. EMI is unlikely to sign a bunch of kids who play their local venues for much the same reason - they might think the music is marketable, but they don't know how to market that particular artist. Some companies specialise in rock, others in classical. It is no different with games publishers and their respective software houses. Some publishers feel happier with some titles. This should not come as a suprise to anyone at all. -- Paul Robinson http://www.iconoplex.co.uk/ "I'm not conceited. It's just that I have a fondness for the good things in life, and I happen to be one of them." - Kenneth Williams From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 12 16:53:28 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2E3416A4CE for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 16:53:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from faceman.servitor.co.uk (faceman.servitor.co.uk [80.71.15.146]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDE1343D1F for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 16:53:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wiggy@servitor.co.uk) Received: from wiggy by faceman.servitor.co.uk with local (Exim 4.30) id 1BZBjJ-000EXc-JO; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 17:51:41 +0100 Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 17:51:41 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav Message-ID: <20040612165141.GO22757@iconoplex.co.uk> References: <20040611210658.GB5926@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Sender: Paul Robinson cc: Jonathon McKitrick cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: OT: how does software publishing work? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 16:53:28 -0000 On Sat, Jun 12, 2004 at 12:14:18AM +0200, Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav wrote: > > How does the relationship work between writers and publishers of software? > > Badly. That's an incredibly flippant answer, and suggests you've never worked with a software publisher, or if you have, you've been deliberately obstructive and ignorant in the context of that relationship. -- Paul Robinson http://www.iconoplex.co.uk/ "I'm not conceited. It's just that I have a fondness for the good things in life, and I happen to be one of them." - Kenneth Williams From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 12 16:59:01 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F82E16A4CE for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 16:59:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from s1.stradamotorsports.com (ip30.gte215.dsl-acs2.sea.iinet.com [209.20.215.30]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89C8143D41 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 16:58:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jcw@s1.stradamotorsports.com) Received: from s1.stradamotorsports.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) i5CGvigb098142; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 09:57:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcw@s1.stradamotorsports.com) Received: (from jcw@localhost)i5CGvgi3098141; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 09:57:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcw) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 09:57:42 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-X-Sender: jcw@s1.stradamotorsports.com To: Dan MacMillan In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=4.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: RE: updated architectural feature chart X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 16:59:01 -0000 On Fri, 11 Jun 2004, Dan MacMillan wrote: > You know, Johnny Cash came up with the solution to this particular problem a > long time ago. I actually got this joke. Sincerely, Sue From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 12 17:02:36 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6DD416A4CE for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 17:02:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp.des.no (flood.des.no [217.116.83.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46CD643D31 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 17:02:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: by smtp.des.no (Pony Express, from userid 666) id 3FD385309; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 19:01:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from dwp.des.no (des.no [80.203.228.37]) by smtp.des.no (Pony Express) with ESMTP id 12A13530D; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 19:00:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id E476A33C71; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 19:00:54 +0200 (CEST) To: Paul Robinson References: <20040611210658.GB5926@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20040612165141.GO22757@iconoplex.co.uk> From: des@des.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 19:00:54 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20040612165141.GO22757@iconoplex.co.uk> (Paul Robinson's message of "Sat, 12 Jun 2004 17:51:41 +0100") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on flood.des.no X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.63 cc: Jonathon McKitrick cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: OT: how does software publishing work? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 17:02:37 -0000 Paul Robinson writes: > On Sat, Jun 12, 2004 at 12:14:18AM +0200, Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav wrote: > > > How does the relationship work between writers and publishers of soft= ware? > > Badly. > That's an incredibly flippant answer, and suggests you've never worked wi= th > a software publisher, or if you have, you've been deliberately obstructive > and ignorant in the context of that relationship. Jonathon was speaking specifically of the game industry, which is notoriously f***ed up. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 12 17:09:47 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5D0816A4CE for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 17:09:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: from faceman.servitor.co.uk (faceman.servitor.co.uk [80.71.15.146]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A035343D31 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 17:09:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wiggy@servitor.co.uk) Received: from wiggy by faceman.servitor.co.uk with local (Exim 4.30) id 1BZC0b-000EaM-JJ; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 18:09:33 +0100 Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 18:09:33 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav Message-ID: <20040612170933.GQ22757@iconoplex.co.uk> References: <20040611210658.GB5926@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20040612165141.GO22757@iconoplex.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Sender: Paul Robinson cc: Jonathon McKitrick cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: OT: how does software publishing work? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 17:09:47 -0000 On Sat, Jun 12, 2004 at 07:00:54PM +0200, Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav wrote: > Jonathon was speaking specifically of the game industry, which is > notoriously f***ed up. I stand by my comments - most publishers are genuine and will deal with software companies legitimately and the process normally works well. For background, I work for an ERDF-backed project that in the past has assisted several dozen software companies and publishers, specifically in the games sector, get together and work together with few hitches. Still, selling software obviously isn't your bag, and that's your choice. Without the "notoriously f***ed up" games industry though, the whole of the IT industry would probably be a lot deader than it is. -- Paul Robinson http://www.iconoplex.co.uk/ "I'm not conceited. It's just that I have a fondness for the good things in life, and I happen to be one of them." - Kenneth Williams