From owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 9 11:45:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B823316A4A7 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2006 11:45:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kumareshkp@yahoo.co.in) Received: from web8608.mail.in.yahoo.com (web8608.mail.in.yahoo.com [202.43.219.83]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3091943D73 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2006 11:45:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kumareshkp@yahoo.co.in) Received: (qmail 1357 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Oct 2006 11:45:20 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.in; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=3vEuCvQ1flBTcC8jFTLb/+VXO5PoZPjcOCgVUNPQmTgxtnlZR5Y1AOVnYPm+QT/iQO241DPvSC8sYR1lSDBfqTrOVmJfQ1x9Q5ZA9NGJ+8jzfzztju5M/MEo6fGfYsoP5x194JHxWBtzQRCYH7dFvb0KyPxMiEuztUcO4yVRDNs= ; Message-ID: <20061009114520.1355.qmail@web8608.mail.in.yahoo.com> Received: from [59.145.141.130] by web8608.mail.in.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 09 Oct 2006 12:45:20 BST Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 12:45:20 +0100 (BST) From: kumaresh pandian To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Hyperthreading Issues X-BeenThere: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD SMP implementation group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 11:45:29 -0000 Hi all How do i Find if the CPU is Hyperthreading enabled or not? I have tried using the mtables but i'm not able to figure it out. Any help is this regard would be helpful Thanks kpk --------------------------------- Find out what India is talking about on - Yahoo! Answers India Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Yahoo! Messenger Version 8. Get it NOW From owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 10 00:59:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07C2816A407 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 00:59:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from a_hartwig@fastmail.fm) Received: from out1.smtp.messagingengine.com (out1.smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 552C343D45 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 00:59:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from a_hartwig@fastmail.fm) Received: from db2.internal (db2.internal [10.202.2.12]) by frontend1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCBB0DB13AB; Mon, 9 Oct 2006 20:59:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web2.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.211]) by db2.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 09 Oct 2006 20:59:48 -0400 Received: by web2.messagingengine.com (Postfix, from userid 99) id B67205A5E; Mon, 9 Oct 2006 20:59:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1160441988.23832.272935291@webmail.messagingengine.com> X-Sasl-Enc: iIc97snRk8z/x2CPSGBJkogRKfV9F3I0tKiAhHlRvo/w 1160441988 From: "Arthur Hartwig" To: "Charles Ulrich" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 10:59:48 +1000 Cc: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 6.1 Instability X-BeenThere: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD SMP implementation group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 00:59:49 -0000 I have had good experience with SMP in FreeBSD 6.0. I have a system with two CPU packages with hyperthreading (4 CPUs in all). It runs the SMP kernel, mostly supporting software development (file serving, compiling, etc). It runs for weeks without stalling or hanging. I have noticed though that the SMP performance in networking, particularly forwarding, is not nearly as good under SMP as on a single CPU system. I wonder if you are getting sustained heavy network traffic. The LAN driver polling option works well on SMP systems and has a measure of protection against heavy network loads consuming all the available CPU time (the drivers effectively stop processing incoming packets if the system idle time gets too low). # man polling gives more details on polling. The kernel needs to be built with option DEVICE_POLLING, polling needs to enabled on individual interfaces (can be done in /etc/rc.conf) and, depending on your network load, you might want to tweak sysctl variables such as kern.polling.user_frac Arthur ext Charles Ulrich wrote: > Greetings, > > We have been running FreeBSD on our mail servers for about as long as I can > remember. Recently, we decided to go SMP to handle increased mail load. After > assembling the hardware, installing the OS and software, and restoring all of > our data, we noticed in testing that our first machine began hanging > semi-regularly when it began processing lots of mail. Disabling SMP > eliminated the hangs completely. We tried it all again on completely > different hardware with exactly the same result. Our conclusion: somethings's > buggy in SMP. > > Here are the symptoms. The machine hangs, and becomes completely > unresponsive. It looks like a deadlock. It will sometimes respond to the > power button and shut down (without being able to first sync and unmount > filesystems), and sometimes the power button event gets caught in the > deadlock. Sinceit's not actually a crash, there is no core dump or other > debugging information. In the most recent situation, it hung at different > points every time I tried to compile ezm3, after successfully compiling other > packages. > > We're system administrators, not kernel hackers, so this is a plea for help. I > wouldn't know where to start, but I'm hoping someone can point me in the > right direction. We're also willing to give a (trustworthy) FreeBSD developer > root access to the test machine since it's just sitting idle right now. If > you need to crash it, that's fine. We'll have people during normal business > hours who know how to push a reset button. > > Thanks for your time. -- Arthur Hartwig a_hartwig@fastmail.fm -- http://www.fastmail.fm - A no graphics, no pop-ups email service From owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 10 01:38:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DC8416A407 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 01:38:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from server.baldwin.cx (66-23-211-162.clients.speedfactory.net [66.23.211.162]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E422B43D49 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 01:38:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from zion.baldwin.cx (zion.baldwin.cx [192.168.0.7]) (authenticated bits=0) by server.baldwin.cx (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k9A1cjDM082407; Mon, 9 Oct 2006 21:38:46 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 21:20:12 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <200610051544.03861.charles@idealso.com> In-Reply-To: <200610051544.03861.charles@idealso.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200610092120.12570.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (server.baldwin.cx [192.168.0.1]); Mon, 09 Oct 2006 21:38:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.3/2016/Mon Oct 9 12:58:54 2006 on server.baldwin.cx X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=4.2 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on server.baldwin.cx Cc: Charles Ulrich Subject: Re: FreeBSD 6.1 Instability X-BeenThere: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD SMP implementation group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 01:38:49 -0000 On Thursday 05 October 2006 15:44, Charles Ulrich wrote: > Greetings, >=20 > We have been running FreeBSD on our mail servers for about as long as I c= an=20 > remember. Recently, we decided to go SMP to handle increased mail load. A= fter=20 > assembling the hardware, installing the OS and software, and restoring al= l of=20 > our data, we noticed in testing that our first machine began hanging=20 > semi-regularly when it began processing lots of mail. Disabling SMP=20 > eliminated the hangs completely. We tried it all again on completely=20 > different hardware with exactly the same result. Our conclusion: somethin= gs's=20 > buggy in SMP. >=20 > Here are the symptoms. The machine hangs, and becomes completely=20 > unresponsive. =A0It looks like a deadlock. =A0It will sometimes respond t= o the=20 > power button and shut down (without being able to first sync and unmount= =20 > filesystems), and sometimes the power button event gets caught in the=20 > deadlock. =A0Sinceit's not actually a crash, there is no core dump or oth= er=20 > debugging information. In the most recent situation, it hung at different= =20 > points every time I tried to compile ezm3, after successfully compiling o= ther=20 > packages. >=20 > We're system administrators, not kernel hackers, so this is a plea for he= lp. I=20 > wouldn't know where to start, but I'm hoping someone can point me in the= =20 > right direction. We're also willing to give a (trustworthy) FreeBSD devel= oper=20 > root access to the test machine since it's just sitting idle right now. I= f=20 > you need to crash it, that's fine. We'll have people during normal busine= ss=20 > hours who know how to push a reset button. >=20 > Thanks for your time. Compile a debug kernel and include 'DDB' in the kernel. When it hangs, bre= ak into the debugger and type 'panic' to have it panic the machine and write out a = crash dump. Once you have the crash dump, download http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/g= db/gdb6 and do this: $ kgdb /usr/obj/usr/src/sys/FOO/kernel.debug /var/crash/vmcore.X (where FOO is your kernel config file and X is the right vmcore file) Then do this: (gdb) source /path/to/gdb6 (gdb) ps =2E.. And reply with the output from the 'ps' command. =2D-=20 John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 10 17:40:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76B3A16A40F for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 17:40:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from arthur.hartwig@nokia.com) Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (darkstar.iprg.nokia.com [205.226.5.69]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC94043D53 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 17:40:16 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from arthur.hartwig@nokia.com) Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id k99NbNT13225; Mon, 9 Oct 2006 16:37:23 -0700 X-mProtect: <200610092337> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from UNKNOWN (205.226.7.134, claiming to be "[205.226.7.134]") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpdA4PvRz; Mon, 09 Oct 2006 16:37:21 PDT Message-ID: <452AE62B.4000000@nokia.com> Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 10:15:39 +1000 From: Arthur Hartwig User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.5 (X11/20060719) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ext kumaresh pandian References: <20061009114520.1355.qmail@web8608.mail.in.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20061009114520.1355.qmail@web8608.mail.in.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hyperthreading Issues X-BeenThere: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD SMP implementation group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 17:40:17 -0000 ext kumaresh pandian wrote: > Hi all > > > How do i Find if the CPU is Hyperthreading enabled or not? I have tried using the mtables but i'm not able to figure it out. > Look for the HTT bit in the CPU features displayed when FreeBSD starts up. Here's an example from one of my systems, HTT is third from the right hand end of the CPU features list. Copyright (c) 1992-2005 The FreeBSD Project. Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. hartwig 1 10.09.2006-151040MPTable: Timecounter "i8254" frequency 1193182 Hz quality 0 CPU: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 2.80GHz (2794.59-MHz 686-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0xf27 Stepping = 7 Features=0xbfebfbff Features2=0x4400> Hyperthreading: 2 logical CPUs real memory = 2147483648 (2048 MB) avail memory = 2100936704 (2003 MB) Arthur From owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 10 17:59:57 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7D6016A403 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 17:59:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from smtp8.server.rpi.edu (smtp8.server.rpi.edu [128.113.2.228]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5779343D49 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 17:59:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.netel.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by smtp8.server.rpi.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k9AHxeXo022311; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 13:59:41 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <452AE62B.4000000@nokia.com> References: <20061009114520.1355.qmail@web8608.mail.in.yahoo.com> <452AE62B.4000000@nokia.com> Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 13:59:39 -0400 To: Arthur Hartwig From: Garance A Drosihn Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-CanItPRO-Stream: default X-RPI-SA-Score: undef - spam-scanning disabled X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . canit . ca) Cc: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hyperthreading Issues (on Athlon64?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD SMP implementation group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 17:59:57 -0000 At 10:15 AM +1000 10/10/06, Arthur Hartwig wrote: >ext kumaresh pandian wrote: >>Hi all >> >> >> How do i Find if the CPU is Hyperthreading enabled or not? I have >>tried using the mtables but i'm not able to figure it out. >> >Look for the HTT bit in the CPU features displayed when FreeBSD starts >up. Here's an example from one of my systems, HTT is third from the >right hand end of the CPU features list. > >Copyright (c) 1992-2005 The FreeBSD Project. >Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 > The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. >hartwig 1 10.09.2006-151040MPTable: >Timecounter "i8254" frequency 1193182 Hz quality 0 >CPU: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 2.80GHz (2794.59-MHz 686-class CPU) > Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0xf27 Stepping = 7 > >Features=0xbfebfbff > Features2=0x4400> > Hyperthreading: 2 logical CPUs >real memory = 2147483648 (2048 MB) >avail memory = 2100936704 (2003 MB) Huh. I just got a dual-core Athlon64 machine, and the features list for it says: Features=0x178bfbff --- My dmesg does not have the line about "Hyperthreading: 2 logical CPUs", though. But I had been pretty sure the Athlon64 chips didn't have any hyperthreading support. Why is the HTT there? -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu From owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 10 18:11:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3918A16A4A0 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 18:11:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brooks@lor.one-eyed-alien.net) Received: from sccmmhc91.asp.att.net (sccmmhc91.asp.att.net [204.127.203.211]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 821FB43D7E for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 18:11:19 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brooks@lor.one-eyed-alien.net) Received: from lor.one-eyed-alien.net ([12.207.12.9]) by sccmmhc91.asp.att.net (sccmmhc91) with ESMTP id <20061010181118m9100elb5re>; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 18:11:18 +0000 Received: from lor.one-eyed-alien.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lor.one-eyed-alien.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id k9AIBGLb075784; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 13:11:16 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from brooks@lor.one-eyed-alien.net) Received: (from brooks@localhost) by lor.one-eyed-alien.net (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id k9AIBFdB075783; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 13:11:15 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from brooks) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 13:11:15 -0500 From: Brooks Davis To: Garance A Drosihn Message-ID: <20061010181115.GB75278@lor.one-eyed-alien.net> References: <20061009114520.1355.qmail@web8608.mail.in.yahoo.com> <452AE62B.4000000@nokia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="IiVenqGWf+H9Y6IX" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Cc: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hyperthreading Issues (on Athlon64?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD SMP implementation group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 18:11:29 -0000 --IiVenqGWf+H9Y6IX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 01:59:39PM -0400, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > At 10:15 AM +1000 10/10/06, Arthur Hartwig wrote: > >ext kumaresh pandian wrote: > >>Hi all > >> =20 > >> =20 > >> How do i Find if the CPU is Hyperthreading enabled or not? I have=20 > >>tried using the mtables but i'm not able to figure it out. > >> > >Look for the HTT bit in the CPU features displayed when FreeBSD starts > >up. Here's an example from one of my systems, HTT is third from the > >right hand end of the CPU features list. > > > >Copyright (c) 1992-2005 The FreeBSD Project. > >Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 > > The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. > >hartwig 1 10.09.2006-151040MPTable: > >Timecounter "i8254" frequency 1193182 Hz quality 0 > >CPU: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 2.80GHz (2794.59-MHz 686-class CPU) > > Origin =3D "GenuineIntel" Id =3D 0xf27 Stepping =3D 7 > > > >Features=3D0xbfebfbff > > Features2=3D0x4400> > > Hyperthreading: 2 logical CPUs > >real memory =3D 2147483648 (2048 MB) > >avail memory =3D 2100936704 (2003 MB) >=20 > Huh. > I just got a dual-core Athlon64 machine, and the features list for > it says: >=20 > Features=3D0x178bfbff MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CLFLUSH,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2, > HTT> > --- >=20 > My dmesg does not have the line about "Hyperthreading: 2 logical CPUs", > though. But I had been pretty sure the Athlon64 chips didn't have any > hyperthreading support. Why is the HTT there? To trick license managers and schedulers that know HTT, but not true multi-core. They report the physical cores a logical cores and then add an additional flag saying that they are really physical. -- Brooks --IiVenqGWf+H9Y6IX Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (FreeBSD) iD4DBQFFK+JCXY6L6fI4GtQRAkyRAJilrOFwvKRAN8PBQwlUY8ZD7fyLAKCrdb5e SsOFlagCl3wquQ7/3Yz1Dg== =VReY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --IiVenqGWf+H9Y6IX-- From owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 10 18:56:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11B1A16A412 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 18:56:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joao@matik.com.br) Received: from msrv.matik.com.br (msrv.matik.com.br [200.152.83.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79A5D43D88 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 18:56:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from joao@matik.com.br) Received: from anb (anb.matik.com.br [200.152.83.34]) by msrv.matik.com.br (8.13.8/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k9AIu3nK076477 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:56:03 -0300 (BRT) (envelope-from joao@matik.com.br) From: JoaoBR Organization: Infomatik To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:55:55 -0300 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.4 References: <20061009114520.1355.qmail@web8608.mail.in.yahoo.com> <20061010181115.GB75278@lor.one-eyed-alien.net> In-Reply-To: <20061010181115.GB75278@lor.one-eyed-alien.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200610101555.55558.joao@matik.com.br> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on msrv.matik.com.br X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: Re: Hyperthreading Issues (on Athlon64?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD SMP implementation group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 18:56:10 -0000 On Tuesday 10 October 2006 15:11, Brooks Davis wrote: > > My dmesg does not have the line about "Hyperthreading: 2 logical CPUs", > > though. =A0But I had been pretty sure the Athlon64 chips didn't have any > > hyperthreading support. =A0Why is the HTT there? HTT is NOT hyperthreading, HT is and HT does not exist on AMD64 =2D-=20 Jo=E3o A mensagem foi scaneada pelo sistema de e-mail e pode ser considerada segura. Service fornecido pelo Datacenter Matik https://datacenter.matik.com.br From owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 10 19:46:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A87CE16A5A0 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 19:46:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from server.baldwin.cx (66-23-211-162.clients.speedfactory.net [66.23.211.162]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DD4843D70 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 19:45:59 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from zion.baldwin.cx (zion.baldwin.cx [192.168.0.7]) (authenticated bits=0) by server.baldwin.cx (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k9AJjrIJ089790; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:45:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:43:28 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <20061009114520.1355.qmail@web8608.mail.in.yahoo.com> <20061010181115.GB75278@lor.one-eyed-alien.net> <200610101555.55558.joao@matik.com.br> In-Reply-To: <200610101555.55558.joao@matik.com.br> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200610101543.29138.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (server.baldwin.cx [192.168.0.1]); Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:45:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.3/2020/Tue Oct 10 14:11:22 2006 on server.baldwin.cx X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=4.2 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on server.baldwin.cx Cc: JoaoBR Subject: Re: Hyperthreading Issues (on Athlon64?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD SMP implementation group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 19:46:03 -0000 On Tuesday 10 October 2006 14:55, JoaoBR wrote: > On Tuesday 10 October 2006 15:11, Brooks Davis wrote: > > > My dmesg does not have the line about "Hyperthreading: 2 logical CPUs= ", > > > though. =A0But I had been pretty sure the Athlon64 chips didn't have = any > > > hyperthreading support. =A0Why is the HTT there? >=20 >=20 > HTT is NOT hyperthreading, HT is and HT does not exist on AMD64 Err, no. The HTT there stands for HyperThreading Technology. I should know as I added it. :) What it really means is that you can check one of the registers returned by cpuid 1 to see how many logical CPUs the current physical CPU package contains. Originally this was only used for hyperthreads, but it was reused for multi-core as well, so if you have a dual-core chip with 2 hyperthreads in each core, it reports 4 logical CPUs. If you have 2 cores, it reports 2 logical CPUs. If you have 1 core with 2 hyperthreads, it reports 2 logical CPUs. =2D-=20 John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 10 23:15:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB57B16A494 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 23:15:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joao@matik.com.br) Received: from msrv.matik.com.br (msrv.matik.com.br [200.152.83.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA04543DA3 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 23:15:16 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from joao@matik.com.br) Received: from ap-h.matik.com.br (ap-h.matik.com.br [200.152.83.36]) by msrv.matik.com.br (8.13.8/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k9ANFEEM088215 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:15:14 -0300 (BRT) (envelope-from joao@matik.com.br) From: JoaoBR Organization: Infomatik To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:15:36 -0300 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.4 References: <20061009114520.1355.qmail@web8608.mail.in.yahoo.com> <200610101555.55558.joao@matik.com.br> <200610101543.29138.jhb@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <200610101543.29138.jhb@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200610102015.36589.joao@matik.com.br> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on msrv.matik.com.br X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: Re: Hyperthreading Issues (on Athlon64?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD SMP implementation group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 23:15:24 -0000 On Tuesday 10 October 2006 16:43, John Baldwin wrote: > On Tuesday 10 October 2006 14:55, JoaoBR wrote: > > On Tuesday 10 October 2006 15:11, Brooks Davis wrote: > > > > My dmesg does not have the line about "Hyperthreading: 2 logical > > > > CPUs", though. =A0But I had been pretty sure the Athlon64 chips did= n't > > > > have any hyperthreading support. =A0Why is the HTT there? > > > > HTT is NOT hyperthreading, HT is and HT does not exist on AMD64 > > Err, no. =A0The HTT there stands for HyperThreading Technology. you say it right: "stands for" in this case But I think it "is" the other way round, in terms of abreviation: HTT =3D Hyper Transport Technology HT =3D Hyper Threading (Technology) http://download.intel.com/design/Pentium4/manuals/24896613.pdf If believe Intel came up with HyperThreading after AMD brought up the term = HTT=20 and so there was no way to call it HTT but "HT Technology" but this story m= ay=20 be wrong. Unluckily (my opinion) in freebsd's i386 kernel (read NOTES) HT technology = is=20 called HTT CPU.=20 Even if this is certainly ok for whom knows it, then an AMD X2 is definitl= y=20 not a hyperthreaded processor but has 2 cores as well as Intel's newer Core= =20 Duo, so HTT for an AMD X2 would be wrong (my opinion again) on AMD DualCore you see Cores per package: 2 <<<<<<< =46reeBSD/SMP: Multiprocessor System Detected: 2 CPUs cpu0 (BSP): APIC ID: 0 cpu1 (AP): APIC ID: 1 on P4 HT you see Logical CPUs per core: 2 <<<<<<< ACPI APIC Table: =46reeBSD/SMP: Multiprocessor System Detected: 2 CPUs cpu0 (BSP): APIC ID: 0 cpu1 (AP): APIC ID: 1 what then at the end is correct but it does not correct the logic error : HT or HTT is the question but at the end AMD is not HTT, whatever HT or HTT= =20 then is or stands for =2D-=20 Jo=E3o A mensagem foi scaneada pelo sistema de e-mail e pode ser considerada segura. Service fornecido pelo Datacenter Matik https://datacenter.matik.com.br From owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 12 14:08:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 946E316A4D4 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:08:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from server.baldwin.cx (66-23-211-162.clients.speedfactory.net [66.23.211.162]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 499CF43E78 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:07:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from localhost.corp.yahoo.com (john@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by server.baldwin.cx (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k9CE6qIU005698; Thu, 12 Oct 2006 10:06:55 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 09:24:48 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <20061009114520.1355.qmail@web8608.mail.in.yahoo.com> <200610101543.29138.jhb@freebsd.org> <200610102015.36589.joao@matik.com.br> In-Reply-To: <200610102015.36589.joao@matik.com.br> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200610120924.48482.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (server.baldwin.cx [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 12 Oct 2006 10:06:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.3/2026/Thu Oct 12 02:47:06 2006 on server.baldwin.cx X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=4.2 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on server.baldwin.cx Cc: JoaoBR Subject: Re: Hyperthreading Issues (on Athlon64?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD SMP implementation group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:08:35 -0000 On Tuesday 10 October 2006 19:15, JoaoBR wrote: > On Tuesday 10 October 2006 16:43, John Baldwin wrote: > > On Tuesday 10 October 2006 14:55, JoaoBR wrote: > > > On Tuesday 10 October 2006 15:11, Brooks Davis wrote: > > > > > My dmesg does not have the line about "Hyperthreading: 2 logical > > > > > CPUs", though. =A0But I had been pretty sure the Athlon64 chips d= idn't > > > > > have any hyperthreading support. =A0Why is the HTT there? > > > > > > HTT is NOT hyperthreading, HT is and HT does not exist on AMD64 > > > > Err, no. =A0The HTT there stands for HyperThreading Technology. >=20 > you say it right: "stands for" in this case >=20 > But I think it "is" the other way round, in terms of abreviation: >=20 > HTT =3D Hyper Transport Technology > HT =3D Hyper Threading (Technology) I don't think this really bothers anyone. > Even if this is certainly ok for whom knows it, then an AMD X2 is defini= tly=20 > not a hyperthreaded processor but has 2 cores as well as Intel's newer Co= re=20 > Duo, so HTT for an AMD X2 would be wrong (my opinion again) You didn't read anything I said earlier. When dual-core came out, to make = it easier for OS's to detect it (probably Windows), AMD made a dual-core CPU look just like an Intel CPU with 2 hyperthreads including using the CPUID HT flag in cpuid that _Intel_ had reserved. Even ports/misc/cpuid calls the flag HT. Sheesh. =2D-=20 John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 12 16:54:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30C2016A417; Thu, 12 Oct 2006 16:54:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joao@matik.com.br) Received: from msrv.matik.com.br (msrv.matik.com.br [200.152.83.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6875343D7C; Thu, 12 Oct 2006 16:54:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from joao@matik.com.br) Received: from anb.matik.com.br (anb.matik.com.br [200.152.88.34] (may be forged)) by msrv.matik.com.br (8.13.8/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k9CGrscJ003348; Thu, 12 Oct 2006 13:53:55 -0300 (BRT) (envelope-from joao@matik.com.br) From: JoaoBR Organization: Infomatik To: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 13:53:38 -0300 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.4 References: <20061009114520.1355.qmail@web8608.mail.in.yahoo.com> <200610102015.36589.joao@matik.com.br> <200610120924.48482.jhb@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <200610120924.48482.jhb@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200610121353.40008.joao@matik.com.br> X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL autolearn=unavailable version=3.1.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: Antispam Datacenter Matik msrv.matik.com.br X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on msrv.matik.com.br X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: Re: Hyperthreading Issues (on Athlon64?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-smp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD SMP implementation group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 16:54:03 -0000 On Thursday 12 October 2006 10:24, John Baldwin wrote: > > > > > > Err, no. =A0The HTT there stands for HyperThreading Technology. > > > > you say it right: "stands for" in this case > > > > But I think it "is" the other way round, in terms of abreviation: > > > > HTT =3D Hyper Transport Technology > > HT =3D Hyper Threading (Technology) > > I don't think this really bothers anyone. > sure, until bitten by the confusion > > You didn't read anything I said earlier. When dual-core came out, to make > it easier for OS's to detect it (probably Windows), AMD made a dual-core > CPU look just like an Intel CPU with 2 hyperthreads including using the > CPUID HT flag in cpuid that _Intel_ had reserved. Even ports/misc/cpuid > calls the flag HT. Sheesh. nonoooooo, it reads the HTT flag=20 so confusion is perfect now ... please see the funny side of it=20 the processor's cpuid function, when returning the HTT bit, reports dual-co= re=20 single thread (AMD) or single-core dual-thread (Intel), and not that AMD=20 makes it appear like an Intel-HT CPU ... but then ports/cpuid still reports: =20 HT Hyper Threading (on Intel CPUs) isn't it funny? =2D-=20 Jo=E3o A mensagem foi scaneada pelo sistema de e-mail e pode ser considerada segura. Service fornecido pelo Datacenter Matik https://datacenter.matik.com.br