From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 15 23:22:06 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C96616A416 for ; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 23:22:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from infofarmer@gmail.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.226]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BAC513C45E for ; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 23:22:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from infofarmer@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 36so1117067wra for ; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 15:22:05 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=jof0vXleWEkH/WDCBF2xq9APmjTql0BiBYjop1vynd2cwtKVCfDIEacE8LAM/so4p/pRw0qfp3jqM2iA5VH0IuCfVmNeqSr7GkgaKsDyqxBYFWW5D+9O1eFqKdVmbViXIGM+JEKaSab2wQ7Hl1MvepM8g+1JkftZsNJToeBJGFE= Received: by 10.78.193.19 with SMTP id q19mr363973huf.1168903321638; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 15:22:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.78.164.20 with HTTP; Mon, 15 Jan 2007 15:22:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 02:22:01 +0300 From: "Andrew Pantyukhin" Sender: infofarmer@gmail.com To: "Giorgos Keramidas" In-Reply-To: <20070115224627.GA2670@kobe.laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20070115202154.GB33239@kaiser.sig11.org> <20070115224627.GA2670@kobe.laptop> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 5eba82a8653a1933 Cc: Matteo Riondato , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Announce: FreeSBIE-2.0-RELEASE available! X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 23:22:06 -0000 On 1/16/07, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > On 2007-01-15 21:21, Matteo Riondato wrote: > > FreeSBIE 2.0-RELEASE (codename Clint Eastwood) is based on the fresh > > FreeBSD 6.2-RELEASE, both in terms of sources and of packages. > > My goodness! You guys are fast :) > > > Enjoy FreeSBIE and spread FreeBSD! > > Go Matteo and FreeSBIE team, go... > > You have my sincerest thanks and gratitude. For one thing, I > used FreeSBIE to test laptops in local computer shops, until I > found one that I liked. *sigh* Too bad they don't allow it in Moscow retail outlets. On several occasions I tried to ask for it and every time I get a pair of wild eyes looking at me where I can read "you're going to install a virus and they'll fire me"... Thanks Matteo, for all the effort! From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 16 00:07:48 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F59416A412; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 00:07:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from igloo.linux.gr (igloo.linux.gr [62.1.205.36]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEC8B13C448; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 00:07:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from kobe.laptop (dialup215.ach.sch.gr [81.186.70.215]) (authenticated bits=128) by igloo.linux.gr (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id l0FNoLZs032651 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 16 Jan 2007 01:50:29 +0200 Received: from kobe.laptop (kobe.laptop [127.0.0.1]) by kobe.laptop (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l0FNoEwt005371; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 01:50:14 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: (from keramida@localhost) by kobe.laptop (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id l0FNoE6A005370; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 01:50:14 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 01:50:13 +0200 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Andrew Pantyukhin Message-ID: <20070115235013.GA5310@kobe.laptop> References: <20070115202154.GB33239@kaiser.sig11.org> <20070115224627.GA2670@kobe.laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Hellug-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Hellug-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=-3.745, required 5, autolearn=not spam, ALL_TRUSTED -1.80, AWL 0.45, BAYES_00 -2.60, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE 0.20) X-Hellug-MailScanner-From: keramida@ceid.upatras.gr X-Spam-Status: No Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Announce: FreeSBIE-2.0-RELEASE available! X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 00:07:48 -0000 On 2007-01-16 02:22, Andrew Pantyukhin wrote: >On 1/16/07, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: >>On 2007-01-15 21:21, Matteo Riondato wrote: >>> FreeSBIE 2.0-RELEASE (codename Clint Eastwood) is based on the fresh >>> FreeBSD 6.2-RELEASE, both in terms of sources and of packages. >> >> My goodness! You guys are fast :) >> >>> Enjoy FreeSBIE and spread FreeBSD! >> >> Go Matteo and FreeSBIE team, go... >> >> You have my sincerest thanks and gratitude. For one thing, I used >> FreeSBIE to test laptops in local computer shops, until I found one >> that I liked. > > *sigh* Too bad they don't allow it in Moscow retail outlets. On > several occasions I tried to ask for it and every time I get a pair of > wild eyes looking at me where I can read "you're going to install a > virus and they'll fire me"... Oh, don't feel too bad. Things are not exactly heavenly here either. In many retail outlets, even going anywhere *near* the systems triggers the wild-eye syndrome you describe. I just make it a point to *avoid* these retail stores and use the ones that can satisfy my curiosity :) One of the friendliest teams, most technically competent and overall "great guys" team is the one from play247.gr (where I eventually bought my laptop from). I always look there _first_, and only if I can't find what I want I search elsewhere now :) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 16 04:23:39 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09C2916A416 for ; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 04:23:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stevan-tiefert@t-online.de) Received: from mailout05.sul.t-online.com (mailout05.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.82]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C145813C45A for ; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 04:23:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stevan-tiefert@t-online.de) Received: from fwd29.aul.t-online.de by mailout05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 1H6frE-0000EJ-00; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 05:23:36 +0100 Received: from p54a54e97.dip.t-dialin.net (XdqWCQZaoe36t5029Mf4jD-2DLUGSYn3A4PHEAvUcJ-HvVXYIx03Zy@[84.165.78.151]) by fwd29.sul.t-online.de with esmtp id 1H6fr2-0xa71M0; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 05:23:24 +0100 From: Stevan Tiefert To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org User-Agent: KMail/1.9.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 05:25:21 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200701160525.22382.stevan-tiefert@t-online.de> X-ID: XdqWCQZaoe36t5029Mf4jD-2DLUGSYn3A4PHEAvUcJ-HvVXYIx03Zy X-TOI-MSGID: 649074fc-e696-4472-b5e3-a65595ce89d5 Subject: Security Patches for Port Applications in Releases X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 04:23:39 -0000 Hello list, I installed the new release 6.2 on my workstation. I installed also portaudit and run it immediatly afterwards. What have I to see? 5 vulnerable packages in my release. My questions: - Why can I update FreeBSD with security-patches and the Release-Packages have no security-patches? - What are then the advantages of release-packages/ports to current-ports if I can not update release-packages with security-patches? - Is an security-patch-update-system for release-packages/ports planned? With regards Stevan Tiefert From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 16 05:41:40 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27D9B16A417 for ; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 05:41:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from delphij@delphij.net) Received: from tarsier.geekcn.org (tarsier.geekcn.org [210.51.165.229]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C794E13C4BC for ; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 05:41:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from delphij@delphij.net) Received: from localhost (tarsier.geekcn.org [210.51.165.229]) by tarsier.geekcn.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DB59EB68A0; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 13:12:12 +0800 (CST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at geekcn.org Received: from tarsier.geekcn.org ([210.51.165.229]) by localhost (mail.geekcn.org [210.51.165.229]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pil0yVinBL1i; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 13:12:03 +0800 (CST) Received: from [10.217.12.122] (sina152-194.staff.sina.com.cn [61.135.152.194]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tarsier.geekcn.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 032D5EB6890; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 13:12:02 +0800 (CST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=default; d=delphij.net; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc: subject:references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type; b=rbXMOtQNn355KC+/rQaj27Y0oA/LCi0yYRmzAgYjq52J68SgSIxFqjlkGZPmExziH i83VAr+HHxNf6UFcki0lA== Message-ID: <45AC5E4A.3060008@delphij.net> Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 13:10:34 +0800 From: LI Xin Organization: The FreeBSD Project User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Macintosh/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stevan Tiefert References: <200701160525.22382.stevan-tiefert@t-online.de> In-Reply-To: <200701160525.22382.stevan-tiefert@t-online.de> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-ripemd160; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig9342103C1F3652E9931C123A" Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Security Patches for Port Applications in Releases X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 05:41:40 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig9342103C1F3652E9931C123A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stevan Tiefert wrote: > Hello list, >=20 > I installed the new release 6.2 on my workstation. I installed also=20 > portaudit=20 > and run it immediatly afterwards. What have I to see? 5 vulnerable=20 > packages=20 > in my release. >=20 > My questions: > - Why can I update FreeBSD with security-patches and the=20 > Release-Packages have=20 > no security-patches? > - What are then the advantages of release-packages/ports to=20 > current-ports if I=20 > can not update release-packages with security-patches? > - Is an security-patch-update-system for release-packages/ports planned= ? Due to manpower limitation, I think there is no plan to have so-called "security patches for release packages" at this moment. Administrators may use portupgrade's -rRPP option and pass the vulnerable package names to its command line, to install the latest -stable packages, which is usually updated frequently. Cheers, --=20 Xin LI http://www.delphij.net/ FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! --------------enig9342103C1F3652E9931C123A Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFrF5KOfuToMruuMARA7haAJwPQBjSRy4znid4A7Lz67drYeJzGQCdG77M hjJqIBGU8vQUy8nRAhfcuLI= =rrnI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig9342103C1F3652E9931C123A-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 16 06:25:24 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1223216A415 for ; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 06:25:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stevan-tiefert@t-online.de) Received: from mailout06.sul.t-online.com (mailout06.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.19]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCE3E13C47E for ; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 06:25:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stevan-tiefert@t-online.de) Received: from fwd33.aul.t-online.de by mailout06.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 1H6fGm-0005Lx-01; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 04:45:56 +0100 Received: from p54a54e97.dip.t-dialin.net (ZkmOIQZCreQNVoCnYyqUgU47wb-v2RhgR3K1C+JbWlP4QtTEVnwCwH@[84.165.78.151]) by fwd33.sul.t-online.de with esmtp id 1H6fGg-1SkPh20; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 04:45:50 +0100 From: Stevan Tiefert To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 04:47:48 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200701160447.48313.stevan-tiefert@t-online.de> X-ID: ZkmOIQZCreQNVoCnYyqUgU47wb-v2RhgR3K1C+JbWlP4QtTEVnwCwH X-TOI-MSGID: b681c51d-1aac-474c-87a4-ed39b4e0ca91 Subject: Security Patches for Port Applications in Releases X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 06:25:24 -0000 Hello list, I installed the new release 6.2 on my workstation. I installed also portaudit and run it immediatly afterwards. What have I to see? 5 vulnerable packages in my release. My questions: - Why can I update FreeBSD with security-patches and the Release-Packages have no security-patches? - What are then the advantages of release-packages/ports to current-ports if I can not update release-packages with security-patches? - Is an security-patch-update-system for release-packages/ports planned? With regards Stevan Tiefert From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 17 08:08:11 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D625C16A412 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 08:08:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [83.120.8.8]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48C8113C4A5 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 08:08:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (ilclej@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l0H884RU080321; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:08:10 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.13.4/8.13.1/Submit) id l0H884Jb080320; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:08:04 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:08:04 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200701170808.l0H884Jb080320@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, stevan-tiefert@t-online.de In-Reply-To: <200701160447.48313.stevan-tiefert@t-online.de> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat User-Agent: tin/1.8.2-20060425 ("Shillay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.11-STABLE (i386)) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:08:10 +0100 (CET) Cc: Subject: Re: Security Patches for Port Applications in Releases X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, stevan-tiefert@t-online.de List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 08:08:11 -0000 Stevan Tiefert wrote: > I installed the new release 6.2 on my workstation. I installed also portaudit > and run it immediatly afterwards. What have I to see? 5 vulnerable packages > in my release. What was your installation source? I noticed that there are a lot of stale packages on ftp.de.freebsd.org (which is probably used as mirroring source for some of the other ftp*.de servers). I assume the maintainer of that mirror forgot to re-sync after a few packages have been updated in the past months. For FTP-based installations within .de I recommend to use ftp7.de.freebsd.org which re-syncs regularly directly from the European master server. It is up to date and does not have those stale packages. Of course, there might be other reasons why your particular packagess are reported as vulnerable (last but not least, limited man-power of the ports team; after all there are more than 16000 ports to maintain). The advantage of the release ports is the fact that they have been tested and scrutinized for a long time, and it is assumed that they work in a stable manner, especially the more important and complex ones, such as the office suites and the popular graphical desktop systems. It is clear, however, that it means that you will not always find the latest versions in the release ports. Of course, you can always choose to update your ports to the most up-to-date version (called "current" or "HEAD"). The ports time usually tries to make sure that they still work on the latest FreeBSD release. Just use the cvsup file /usr/share/examples/cvsup/ports-supfile, insert a cvsup server (e.g. cvsup.de.freebsd.org) and run cvsup. If you prefer to install pre-compiled packages, you can look at an FTP server (mirror) in the appropriate stable directory (/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/packages-6-stable) to get newer packages. They should run fine under the latest release. (Of course, you can chose to update your base system to 6-stable, too, if you like.) I hope that answers some of your questions. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing Dienstleistungen mit Schwerpunkt FreeBSD: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd Any opinions expressed in this message may be personal to the author and may not necessarily reflect the opinions of secnetix in any way. "I learned Java 3 years before Python. It was my language of choice. It took me two weekends with Python before I was more productive with it than with Java." -- Anthony Roberts From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 17 09:14:40 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70FB216A412 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:14:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Received: from mx1.highperformance.net (dsl081-163-122.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.163.122]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D57E13C46A for ; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:14:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Received: from [192.168.1.16] (w16.stradamotorsports.com [192.168.1.16]) by mx1.highperformance.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l0H9EWb0011170; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 01:14:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Message-ID: <45ADE8FA.7080300@highperformance.net> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 01:14:34 -0800 From: "Jason C. Wells" User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stevan Tiefert References: <200701160525.22382.stevan-tiefert@t-online.de> In-Reply-To: <200701160525.22382.stevan-tiefert@t-online.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=2.5 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.6 (2006-10-03) on s4.stradamotorsports.com Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Security Patches for Port Applications in Releases X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:14:40 -0000 Stevan Tiefert wrote: > Hello list, > > I installed the new release 6.2 on my workstation. I installed also > portaudit > and run it immediatly afterwards. What have I to see? 5 vulnerable > packages > in my release. > The whole OSS community is a moving target. Security is not a static thing. For FreeBSD to select any given time to release software for OSS to be bug free is preposterous. Hence, you get vulnerable software even in the packages that are tagged with your release. > My questions: > - Why can I update FreeBSD with security-patches and the > Release-Packages have no security-patches? > The answer to the first part of your question is because FreeBSD decided to provide such a nice service. That only rolled out in version 4 I think. It used to be that you would track -stable. Now you get an even more conservative security update branch. The answer to the second part of your question is that the FreeBSD port maintainers are not the people fundamentally working on the security of the ports. Security patches would be produced by some third party. FreeBSD would need to spawn yet another CVS branch to maintain the security update branches of ports from those third parties. Yuck! Nothing prevents a user from downloading a specific port from -HEAD and upgrading it. You can do that or you can get the patches from the third party source and apply them yourself. Managing 13,000 third party applications to the level of detail that you inquire about is way beyond what I would ask of FreeBSD. What they do now is already extraordinary. > - What are then the advantages of release-packages/ports to > current-ports if I can not update release-packages with security-patches? > But you _can_ update the release-packages. It's just that some maintainer or the FreeBSD project won't make it brain dead simple like it is for updating the main branches. I personally run only so-called -release ports. The reason I do is it seems to reduce the amount of version dependency headaches I suffer. When I used to track the ports (which are in -head) with cvsup I would end up with 4 different versions of gmake, autoconf, libtool et al. Yuck! I think that's a good reason to run ports that are tagged with the current release. There's a lot more stability and a lot less work. That is advantage enough for me. > - Is an security-patch-update-system for release-packages/ports planned? One exists. It's just not as easy as it is for the main release branches. Release-packages is something of a misnomer anyway. A more pedantic but more accurate name would be "packages-that-just-happened-to-be-in-HEAD-when-we-pulled-the-release-switch-with-extra-care-given-to-gnome-and-kde". What I mean to say is that it is inappropriate to place any more trust or scrutiny on a release-package. The release-package distinction is almost entirely accidental. (yes, i know more care goes into ports near a release date) Later, Jason C. Wells From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 17 16:56:46 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0F1E16A417 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:56:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from itetcu@FreeBSD.org) Received: from it.buh.tecnik93.com (it.buh.tecnik93.com [81.196.204.98]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5890213C457 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:56:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from itetcu@FreeBSD.org) Received: from it.buh.tecnik93.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by it.buh.tecnik93.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC8341711A; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 18:33:00 +0200 (EET) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 18:33:00 +0200 From: Ion-Mihai "IOnut" Tetcu To: "Jason C. Wells" Message-ID: <20070117183300.1457a9df@it.buh.tecnik93.com> In-Reply-To: <45ADE8FA.7080300@highperformance.net> References: <200701160525.22382.stevan-tiefert@t-online.de> <45ADE8FA.7080300@highperformance.net> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 2.7.0 (GTK+ 2.10.7; i386-portbld-freebsd6.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Sig_jj_NZkjTx/kxk.2Uy2c/mjW"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=PGP-SHA1 Cc: Stevan Tiefert , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Security Patches for Port Applications in Releases X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:56:46 -0000 --Sig_jj_NZkjTx/kxk.2Uy2c/mjW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 01:14:34 -0800 "Jason C. Wells" wrote: [ .. a lot of true and nice things .. ] > I personally run only so-called -release ports. The reason I do is > it seems to reduce the amount of version dependency headaches I > suffer. When I used to track the ports (which are in -head) with > cvsup I would end up with 4 different versions of gmake, autoconf, > libtool et al. Yuck! I think that's a good reason to run ports that > are tagged with the current release. There's a lot more stability > and a lot less work. That is advantage enough for me. Actually the multiple versions of auto* didn't have anything to do with release packages or anything else. We just had a ports that did build only with a specific version (and some hacks in our framework). A lot of work has been put in simplifying this. > > - Is an security-patch-update-system for release-packages/ports > > planned? =20 No. We just don't have the human and hardware resources. If you really need that and want to pay for it some of us would be willing to do it (for a limited number of ports). > One exists. It's just not as easy as it is for the main release > branches. >=20 > Release-packages is something of a misnomer anyway. A more pedantic > but more accurate name would be=20 > "packages-that-just-happened-to-be-in-HEAD-when-we-pulled-the-release-swi= tch-with-extra-care-given-to-gnome-and-kde". =20 Not exactly. There's a lot of extra work put in before and during the ports freeze to make sure the ports are in the best condition possible and those that need to be are marked broken. We try to concentrate more on bug-fixing that on updates or new ports. > What I mean to say is that it is inappropriate to place any more > trust or scrutiny on a release-package. The release-package > distinction is almost entirely accidental. [...] Actually there's an other thing: the release packages/ports are "guaranteed" to work on that release (at least in theory). But no such thing exists for the ports at any given time, ie. ports/packages from today 12:00 UTC are required to work on today 12:00 UTC supported -STABLE branches and not on any supported -REALEASE or -SECURITY. --=20 IOnut - Un^d^dregistered ;) FreeBSD "user" "Intellectual Property" is nowhere near as valuable as "Intellect" BOFH excuse #422: Someone else stole your IP address, call the Internet detectives! --Sig_jj_NZkjTx/kxk.2Uy2c/mjW Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFFrk+8BX6fi0k6KXsRAjJbAKCIN+AzpwiIbMeFIqrSHmBd1b6iiwCfclFn Kopoxa4PznpqS+Dygbbce84= =jVNZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_jj_NZkjTx/kxk.2Uy2c/mjW-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 17 17:56:26 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDB0B16A407 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 17:56:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from ca.pugetsoundtechnology.com (ca.pugetsoundtechnology.com [38.99.2.247]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABE2F13C471 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 17:56:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from pool-71-123-204-253.dllstx.fios.verizon.net ([71.123.204.253] helo=reedmedia.net) by ca.pugetsoundtechnology.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.54) id 1H7Ebz-0002ln-Vt; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:30:12 -0800 Received: from reed@reedmedia.net by reedmedia.net with local (mailout 0.17) id 28639-1169054981; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 11:30:10 -0600 Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 11:29:41 -0600 (CST) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <45AC5E4A.3060008@delphij.net> Message-ID: References: <200701160525.22382.stevan-tiefert@t-online.de> <45AC5E4A.3060008@delphij.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Stevan Tiefert Subject: Re: Security Patches for Port Applications in Releases X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 17:56:26 -0000 Just to let you know, the http://www.pkgsrc.org/ collection mostly works fine on FreeBSD. It provides a quarterly stable branch that only has updates for security fixes and other essential updates. This has been maintained for a few years now. The quarterly stable branch is not scheduled on any operating system release. The pkgsrc security team monitors thousands of security issues (most for software not in the collection) to help make sure existing vulnerabilities are listed in the package vulnerabilities database and updates for the packages are pulled up to the stable branch. Over 6000 software suites in pkgsrc. It is very similar to FreeBSD ports, but a lot of differences too. I am just mentioning it because it works fine on FreeBSD and it provides a security (stable) branch. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 17 22:42:51 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2068016A494 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 22:42:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from deeptech71@gmail.com) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.170]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B343E13C4A7 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 22:42:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from deeptech71@gmail.com) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so9653uge for ; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:42:49 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=PCWrUsSfas1XKmTXB+RZ0JFIHgLU7A/ECAcCj2D47EERPGsxiXkPceu+73lgAeg1K3k2w3JpCtBcBTPmU5qa5iA6L3xLhVedtT800RgScPgpm9HzJJizAdDmGhMgjIWtR+JIWf45zdrvTqBTCguXsOhVE12VMezcPUfGqOM9keM= Received: by 10.66.232.11 with SMTP id e11mr136818ugh.1169072303972; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:18:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.123.111? ( [84.2.119.227]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 5sm19459ugc.2007.01.17.14.18.22; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:18:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <45AEA14C.8000305@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 23:21:00 +0100 From: deeptech71@gmail.com User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: what can i do with a 486? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 22:42:51 -0000 Can you install FreeBSD on a 486 machine? From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 18 00:10:03 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3433616A47E for ; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 00:10:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from ext-gw.lemis.com (ext-gw.lemis.com [150.101.14.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51E4813C47E for ; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 00:10:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.135]) by ext-gw.lemis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 737661338C5; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 10:11:19 +1030 (CST) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 69AAB1AA1D6; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 10:11:19 +1030 (CST) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 10:11:19 +1030 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: deeptech71@gmail.com Message-ID: <20070117234119.GS1300@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <45AEA14C.8000305@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="W/1XGRQlv2BMqnS3" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <45AEA14C.8000305@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 VoIP: sip:0871270137@sip.internode.on.net WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: what can i do with a 486? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 00:10:03 -0000 --W/1XGRQlv2BMqnS3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Wednesday, 17 January 2007 at 23:21:00 +0100, deeptech71@gmail.com wrote: > Can you install FreeBSD on a 486 machine? Sure. I use one to brew my beer. http://www.lemis.com/grog/brewing/temperature-control.html Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers. --W/1XGRQlv2BMqnS3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFFrrQfIubykFB6QiMRAsn7AKCctSvI0wMsVWGkd1Zo8PgZzk/gBACfUlZ6 YuGRJfl/GdO0+tIfVpUqKNo= =8Kc7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --W/1XGRQlv2BMqnS3-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 18 08:02:54 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D48E16A407 for ; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 08:02:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [83.120.8.8]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19C8E13C44B for ; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 08:02:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (idqfmh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l0I82kn5017604; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 09:02:51 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.13.4/8.13.1/Submit) id l0I82khi017603; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 09:02:46 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 09:02:46 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200701180802.l0I82khi017603@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, deeptech71@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <45AEA14C.8000305@gmail.com> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat User-Agent: tin/1.8.2-20060425 ("Shillay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.11-STABLE (i386)) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 18 Jan 2007 09:02:52 +0100 (CET) Cc: Subject: Re: what can i do with a 486? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, deeptech71@gmail.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 08:02:54 -0000 deeptech71@gmail.com wrote: > Can you install FreeBSD on a 486 machine? Yes, certainly. You shouldn't expect it to be lightning fast, though, of course. But it will be perfectly fine for a number of uses. For example, I used to have a 486 as my printer spooler, TFTP boot server and BBS (with an analogue modem) for years. It is also sufficient e.g. as a router and firewall for a modem uplink. However, there are some things to keep in mind: First, you don't want to compile source code on such a machine. It just takes too long. Either download precompiled packages, or compile the sources on a faster machine and then copy them over. Second: Usually such old machines only support PIO modes for disk access, i.e. it's _slow_ and puts a burden on the already slow processor. In other words: You don't want to run things on the machine that require heavy disk access. (Unless, of course, you happen to have a 486 mainboard with PCI slots so you could plug in a DMA-capable disk controller.) And finally, such old hardware usually has a very limited amount of physical memory (RAM). Paging or swapping to disk isn't exactly desirable either (see the remark about PIO modes above). Therefore two things are recommended: First, plug in as much RAM as the board can handle (you can get old SIMM modules on eBay), and second, compile a reduced kernel that contains only the things that you really need. Manual tuning of various parameters (e.g. maxusers) instead of relying on automatic settings might also be worth a try. Use "-Os -fno-strict-aliasing" as your CFLAGS and COPTFLAGS for compiling to reduce code size. If you need to compile things on the 486 itself, do not use the default "-pipe" option. There are more things you can do to save memory; a quick search on Google or freebsd.rambler.ru should give some results. By the way, you should still configure a reasonable amount of swap space, even though it is desirable that it will not be used. With some swap space, the machine will be able to handle situations where it runs out of RAM, even though it will crawl during that time. Without swap space, the machine will crash when it runs out of RAM. Another note: To install the machine with sysinstall (i.e. from a standard installation CD), a minimum amount of RAM is required (I think 24 or 32 MB); the Handbook doesn't seem to be up-to-date on this matter). If you don't have that much RAM, you either need to prepare a special CD for installation without sysinstall, or temporarily put your hard disk in another machine with more RAM for installation. Once the system is installed, it will run with less RAM (the above mentioned requirement only applies to the sysinstall program). By the way, I replaced my 486 with newer hardware only for the reason of energy efficiency, because a 486 isn't really energy-saving. My new machine (a VIA EPIA board with C3 processor) doesn't only use less power, it's also a lot faster, supports DMA for disks and has more RAM, saving me significant amounts of time and troubles. Unless you have some historical interest in that 486 machine, I recommend you replace it with something better, too. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing Dienstleistungen mit Schwerpunkt FreeBSD: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd Any opinions expressed in this message may be personal to the author and may not necessarily reflect the opinions of secnetix in any way. "Life is short (You need Python)" -- Bruce Eckel, ANSI C++ Comitee member, author of "Thinking in C++" and "Thinking in Java" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 18 13:02:28 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A51F216A407 for ; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 13:02:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from m21.unixathome.org (m21.unixathome.org [205.150.199.217]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5446813C442 for ; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 13:02:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [205.150.199.217]) by m21.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68218BF9B; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 07:31:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from m21.unixathome.org ([205.150.199.217]) by localhost (m21.unixathome.org [205.150.199.217]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03213-01; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 07:31:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [74.104.199.163]) by m21.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A41EFBEDE; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 07:31:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.55.0.99] (wocker.unixathome.org [10.55.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D688B84D; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 07:31:34 -0500 (EST) From: "Dan Langille" To: deeptech71@gmail.com Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 07:31:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <45AF2256.23869.A8D1710A@dan.langille.org> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <45AEA14C.8000305@gmail.com> References: <45AEA14C.8000305@gmail.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at unixathome.org Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: what can i do with a 486? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 13:02:28 -0000 On 17 Jan 2007 at 23:21, deeptech71@gmail.com wrote: > Can you install FreeBSD on a 486 machine? Yes, I can. It's at my mother's house. She uses it on a dial up connection for email. -- Dan Langille : Software Developer looking for work my resume: http://www.freebsddiary.org/dan_langille.php PGCon - The PostgreSQL Conference - http://www.pgcon.org/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 18 23:45:17 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12E0816A4A7 for ; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 23:45:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from deeptech71@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.186]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A37E813C43E for ; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 23:45:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from deeptech71@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id k27so326606nfc for ; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 15:45:15 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Lf+D8ubQqFGYEsZecP9IVh6v+/d8g3Stgr1VU5ykW3C3UCMJX4z52w2U5j/tYcF1PDUJ7zsY6LJSFPxdsfiz8Sxe6AyW/Re6aevIo8GnsHi9h0lsycD0AlcMMfDgZzpyr4wDt14jzMzoxmJWr5Jc4xWcSxrm+6zun2cKt9AgVQY= Received: by 10.48.240.10 with SMTP id n10mr1527091nfh.1169163912480; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 15:45:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.123.111? ( [84.0.105.11]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id o9sm3690178nfa.2007.01.18.15.45.11; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 15:45:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <45B00728.5050207@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 00:47:52 +0100 From: deeptech71@gmail.com User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <200701180802.l0I82khi017603@lurza.secnetix.de> In-Reply-To: <200701180802.l0I82khi017603@lurza.secnetix.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: what can i do with a 486? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 23:45:17 -0000 Oliver Fromme wrote: > deeptech71@gmail.com wrote: > > Can you install FreeBSD on a 486 machine? > > Yes, certainly. You shouldn't expect it to be lightning > fast, though, of course. But it will be perfectly fine > for a number of uses. For example, I used to have a 486 > as my printer spooler, TFTP boot server and BBS (with an > analogue modem) for years. It is also sufficient e.g. as > a router and firewall for a modem uplink. I have a router that has some glitches, so I wanted to try out how an old FreeBSD system handles the routing. And I could also benefit from the fact that it's software... routing, VPN, network limiting/equalizing, anything i want :] So.. couple of days ago I've picked up a 486 box from someone's trashcan. Seems to work. Some details: an old board of some kind (intel) i486SX 33MHz processor plug for HDD, 1 for floppies, 1 for ? (havent seen anything like this) floppy drive some HDD (500MB?), has DOS + windows 3.1 on it, can boot fine 8MB of ram a PCI-like slot (is it ISA maybe?), some card inserted, probably a slot expander (1 slot -> 3 slots) lots of dust > Second: Usually such old machines only support PIO > modes for disk access, i.e. it's _slow_ and puts a > burden on the already slow processor. In other words: > You don't want to run things on the machine that require > heavy disk access. (Unless, of course, you happen to > have a 486 mainboard with PCI slots so you could plug > in a DMA-capable disk controller.) > > And finally, such old hardware usually has a very limited > amount of physical memory (RAM). Paging or swapping to > disk isn't exactly desirable either (see the remark about > PIO modes above). Therefore two things are recommended: > First, plug in as much RAM as the board can handle (you > can get old SIMM modules on eBay), and second, compile a > reduced kernel that contains only the things that you > really need. Manual tuning of various parameters (e.g. > maxusers) instead of relying on automatic settings might > also be worth a try. Use "-Os -fno-strict-aliasing" > as your CFLAGS and COPTFLAGS for compiling to reduce > code size. If you need to compile things on the 486 > itself, do not use the default "-pipe" option. There > are more things you can do to save memory; a quick search > on Google or freebsd.rambler.ru should give some results. Does routing need a lot of RAM? What packet throughput speed can I expect when it's juggling data between RAM and HDD? > Another note: To install the machine with sysinstall (i.e. > from a standard installation CD), a minimum amount of RAM > is required (I think 24 or 32 MB); the Handbook doesn't > seem to be up-to-date on this matter). If you don't have > that much RAM, you either need to prepare a special CD > for installation without sysinstall, or temporarily put > your hard disk in another machine with more RAM for > installation. Once the system is installed, it will run > with less RAM (the above mentioned requirement only applies > to the sysinstall program). Good idea. Thanx! I'll try that. But doesn't FreeBSD configure things for specific hardware when installed on one computer? And does it work if install on a new generation 386? > By the way, I replaced my 486 with newer hardware only for > the reason of energy efficiency, because a 486 isn't really > energy-saving. My new machine (a VIA EPIA board with C3 > processor) doesn't only use less power, it's also a lot > faster, supports DMA for disks and has more RAM, saving me > significant amounts of time and troubles. Unless you have > some historical interest in that 486 machine, I recommend > you replace it with something better, too. I've asked some friends about old hardware, nothing. I don't want to spend money on buying a new board, yet. However, I may decide to do so (maybe some used 386s). What's better&cheaper? A quality hardware router, or a FreeBSD router? From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 19 02:27:37 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E8C416A580 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 02:27:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phreaki@gmail.com) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.238]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 633D113C467 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 02:27:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phreaki@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i11so291802nzh for ; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 18:27:36 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=X1BlfpQ19AvPtowqdA2XIr8HfrI0qPGfgmV3gbv2sYOkYP9NEX21keNtTgvgKN7CYsqOS7jlDF6/WThda+zGdF0AR62qeQAyzv9+Sq8ll8ybGW1el0OCIBY+/0Oa5J9HIN7HgWuUq4Wuu8YI3mH/mlRMvobxeH88nU7LJ77oH/0= Received: by 10.65.224.11 with SMTP id b11mr2049113qbr.1169172136340; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 18:02:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.250.20 with HTTP; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 18:02:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <6fb2b4650701181802n5fd97a3fgc4f5e64c1558a7d2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 21:02:16 -0500 From: "Robert Atkinson" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <45B00728.5050207@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <200701180802.l0I82khi017603@lurza.secnetix.de> <45B00728.5050207@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: what can i do with a 486? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 02:27:37 -0000 On 1/18/07, deeptech71@gmail.com wrote: > > Oliver Fromme wrote: > > deeptech71@gmail.com wrote: > > > Does routing need a lot of RAM? What packet throughput speed can I expect > when > it's juggling data between RAM and HDD? I'd say don't do anything that would move much data back and forth in I/O, I believe the last time I did this was back on an old Gateway 486. Moving that squid/dns/fileserver back to a pentium II was the best upgrade. Packet filtering wise, I'd say compared to what I get from chips like Geode and such, 2 megabit probably, depending on what you're doing. Filtering bridge was able to top me off at like 10 megabit I think. Good idea. Thanx! I'll try that. > But doesn't FreeBSD configure things for specific hardware when installed > on > one computer? And does it work if install on a new generation 386? In general yes, however when a system is older than a 486, an older version of bsd is required I believe. -- Life is ten percent what happens to you and ninety percent how you respond to it. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 19 10:40:48 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3D0616A40F for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:40:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bounce-413830-2562850@mailer.idgconnect.com) Received: from mailer.idgconnect.com (mailer.idgconnect.com [66.186.116.28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 755C013C428 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:40:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bounce-413830-2562850@mailer.idgconnect.com) From: "IDG Connect" To: Maxim Hermione Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 04:30:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: It's FRIDAY! X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:40:48 -0000 Each Friday, we present a short list of the hottest whitepapers, webcasts and research available in the IDG Connect IT Knowledge Base. Information you can use to solve problems that crept-up during the week, and to prepare for the challenges you'll face in the days ahead. We also provide links to news stories you might have missed, plus facts, quotes and other forms of brain-candy. (Hint: The fun stuff is near the bottom, so don't forget to scroll.) Have a great weekend! CA: IT Strategies for Better Business Results Everything an IT pro needs to keep the suits happy. http://www.accelacomm.com/jlp/friday011907/46/2976//IDG/EmailAddress=freebsd-chat@freebsd.org St. Bernard Software: Fighting the Hidden Dangers of Internet Access Mananging internet usage is no longer a choice for business, it's a necessity. http://www.accelacomm.com/jlp/friday011907/46/3403//IDG/EmailAddress=freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Novell: The Lean Data Center: Eliminate wasted IT dollars with Linux and Virtualization Reduce costs, increase utilization. It's a good thing... http://www.accelacomm.com/jlp/friday011907/7/3388//IDG/EmailAddress=freebsd-chat@freebsd.org AT&T: Key Elements to an Effective Business Continuity Plan To make sure your business keeps on ticking when disaster strikes, you need a plan. A good plan. http://clk.atdmt.com/ATA/go/dgxxge070010000019ata/direct/01/ HP: Windows on Integrity Servers If you run mission-critical business apps on Windows, you need a strong server. http://www.accelacomm.com/jlp/friday011907/46/3471//IDG/EmailAddress=freebsd-chat@freebsd.org IBM: PureXML: Powered Solutions for Real World Problems Learn how you can leverage DB2 pureXML technology to build XML rich applications. http://www.bulldogsolutions.net/IBMDB2/IBD12062006/frmRegistration.aspx?bdls=8369 Dell: The Great Virtualization Migration Get the most from the servers you already own. http://www.accelacomm.com/jlp/friday011907/46/3116//IDG/EmailAddress=freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Interwoven: Application Insight - Automated Validation and Auditing The only way to avoid the consequences of unintended change is to eliminate it. http://www.accelacomm.com/jlp/friday011907/10/3274//IDG/EmailAddress=freebsd-chat@freebsd.org BlueArc: Nine Steps to Effective Networked Unified Storage Consolidation Avoid all the big "gotchas" as you consolidate storage. http://www.accelacomm.com/jlp/friday011907/11/3207//IDG/EmailAddress=freebsd-chat@freebsd.org SafeNet: Third-Party License Management: A Path to Lower Costs and Higher Returns Simplifing the task of managing software licenses in a virtualized world. http://www.accelacomm.com/jlp/friday011907/46/3118//IDG/EmailAddress=freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Visit the IDG Connect IT Knowledge Base More whitepapers. More webcasts. More research. http://www.idgconnect.com Man critically burned in fire started by cell phone Hint: avoid wearing polyester pants with a nylon shirt and jacket. http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9008108 No matter how many pieces you break it into, it always comes back together Stephen Colbert explains the whole AT&T thing! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj1Mtv9cD0I On this day in 2038, the UNIX timestamp will break, and we'll party like it's 1970, or maybe 1901, depending on your particular implementation. In 1983, Steve Jobs announced the Apple Lisa. In 1968, Indiria Gandhi was elected Prime Minister of India. In 1953, Lucy gave birth to little Ricky on "I Love Lucy". Happy Birthday Dolly Parton (1946), Janis Joplin (1943), Minnesota Fats (1913), Edgar Allan Poe (1809), and James Watt (1736). RIP Wilson Pickett (d.2006). "I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have." - Thomas Jefferson IDG Connect is a service of IDG Communications, Inc. - the world's leading technology media and event company. IDG Communications publishes a variety of technology-specific magazines, newspapers, and web sites including CIO, CSO, Computerworld, GamePro, InfoWorld, Macworld, Network World, and PC World. We are also a leading producer of technology-related events including LinuxWorld Conference & Expo, Macworld Conference & Expo, and DEMO. When you applied for, or renewed a subscription to one of our magazines or newspapers, registered as a user at one of our web-sites, subscribed to one of our email newsletters, or registered as an attendee at one of our trade shows/events, you became eligible to receive e-mail from IDG Connect. For more information, read the IDG Privacy Statement at http://www.idgconnect.com/privacypolicy/ This message was delivered to freebsd-chat@freebsd.org. To unsubscribe, please click on the link below. http://mailer.idgconnect.com/u?id=2562850C&o=413830&u=http://mailer.idgconnect.com:8080/unsub&w=F&a=T&n=T&c=F&l=connect-list IDG Connect, 3 Speen Street, Framingham, MA 01701 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 19 12:05:28 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAD5016A4A7 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:05:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bounce-420736-2562850@mailer.idgconnect.com) Received: from mailer.idgconnect.com (mailer.idgconnect.com [66.186.116.28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7D75013C448 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:05:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bounce-420736-2562850@mailer.idgconnect.com) Message-Id: X-lyris-type: unsubscribed From: "IDG Connect" To: "Maxim Hermione" Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 06:34:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: We have processed your unsubscribe request X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:05:28 -0000 We have successfully processed your request to unsubscribe from IDG Connect. Best regards, IDG Connect From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 19 15:14:00 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B57316A412 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:14:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from deeptech71@gmail.com) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.174]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB1E713C448 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:13:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from deeptech71@gmail.com) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so440958uge for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 07:13:58 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Dw4aE7GFsqAZb9wT8QwDpBCTJQ+9jozAwXdBSyhQBl3PJ+OMn1NRg5ZYk6wRtKqy4+jGf6xCzeuUaIDD0SVAH/R0FW6t2fsjN4LLG8GS6lwt58ElTdUEO4rqKnXEzQ2ls+8lz0Qq5r28x3cVWf3wPEh+tNJ/A2aPifthsJ+L1tE= Received: by 10.66.232.9 with SMTP id e9mr3095554ugh.1169219638008; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 07:13:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.123.111? ( [84.2.184.208]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id k28sm2666744ugd.2007.01.19.07.13.56; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 07:13:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <45B0E0D6.5060700@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:16:38 +0100 From: deeptech71@gmail.com User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: what can i do with a 486? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:14:00 -0000 Update: The HDD is 200MB, not 500MB. Couldn't enter the BIOS setup because of a password. Then I used the board's clear CMOS jumper. Now I can't get into the BIOS setup, no matter what I press! I've installed FreeBSD on a gaming PC to that 200MB drive, then put it in the 486 comp. Result: "Missing operating system" error. > Packet filtering wise, I'd say compared to what I get from chips like Geode > and such, 2 megabit probably, depending on what you're doing. Filtering > bridge was able to top me off at like 10 megabit I think. Too slow. It will have a lot of latency. Plus, there are no cards where I can insert 2 network cables, and I'm not into buying such old equipment. The router thing is out of the question then. So, any suggestions? Or, anything I can DO with this thing? Best I can do is to get some experience and fun with old systems. Can someone direct me to small floppy-based operating systems? From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 19 15:44:22 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A314A16A406 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:44:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joe@joeholden.co.uk) Received: from claire.ber.rewt.org.uk (claire.ber.rewt.org.uk [217.160.200.67]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6658D13C45E for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:44:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joe@joeholden.co.uk) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by claire.ber.rewt.org.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8E43B879; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:17:22 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at claire.ber.rewt.org.uk Received: from claire.ber.rewt.org.uk ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (claire.ber.rewt.org.uk [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mTuMzhFLLJzi; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:17:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [195.28.169.201] (jwh.lon.rewt.org.uk [195.28.169.201]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by claire.ber.rewt.org.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21A92B814; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:17:16 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <45B0E0FB.4090207@joeholden.co.uk> Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:17:15 +0000 From: Joe Holden User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0b1 (Windows/20061206) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: deeptech71@gmail.com References: <45B0E0D6.5060700@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <45B0E0D6.5060700@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: what can i do with a 486? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:44:22 -0000 deeptech71@gmail.com wrote: > Update: > > The HDD is 200MB, not 500MB. > Couldn't enter the BIOS setup because of a password. Then I used the > board's clear CMOS jumper. Now I can't get into the BIOS setup, no > matter what I press! > I've installed FreeBSD on a gaming PC to that 200MB drive, then put it > in the 486 comp. Result: "Missing operating system" error. > > > Packet filtering wise, I'd say compared to what I get from chips like > Geode > > and such, 2 megabit probably, depending on what you're doing. Filtering > > bridge was able to top me off at like 10 megabit I think. > > Too slow. It will have a lot of latency. Plus, there are no cards where > I can insert 2 network cables, and I'm not into buying such old equipment. > > The router thing is out of the question then. So, any suggestions? Or, > anything I can DO with this thing? > > Best I can do is to get some experience and fun with old systems. Can > someone direct me to small floppy-based operating systems? > _______________________________________________ Have you tried Pico/NanoBSD? Joe From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 19 15:44:23 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12F9316A400 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:44:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joe@joeholden.co.uk) Received: from claire.ber.rewt.org.uk (claire.ber.rewt.org.uk [217.160.200.67]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B35FC13C465 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:44:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joe@joeholden.co.uk) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by claire.ber.rewt.org.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27DE9BBD5; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:18:28 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at claire.ber.rewt.org.uk Received: from claire.ber.rewt.org.uk ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (claire.ber.rewt.org.uk [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1-fUQu67jifc; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:18:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [195.28.169.201] (jwh.lon.rewt.org.uk [195.28.169.201]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by claire.ber.rewt.org.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94535BBD2; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:18:25 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <45B0E140.7090607@joeholden.co.uk> Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:18:24 +0000 From: Joe Holden User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0b1 (Windows/20061206) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: deeptech71@gmail.com References: <45B0E0D6.5060700@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <45B0E0D6.5060700@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: what can i do with a 486? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:44:23 -0000 deeptech71@gmail.com wrote: > Update: > > The HDD is 200MB, not 500MB. > Couldn't enter the BIOS setup because of a password. Then I used the > board's clear CMOS jumper. Now I can't get into the BIOS setup, no > matter what I press! > I've installed FreeBSD on a gaming PC to that 200MB drive, then put it > in the 486 comp. Result: "Missing operating system" error. > > > Packet filtering wise, I'd say compared to what I get from chips like > Geode > > and such, 2 megabit probably, depending on what you're doing. Filtering > > bridge was able to top me off at like 10 megabit I think. > > Too slow. It will have a lot of latency. Plus, there are no cards where > I can insert 2 network cables, and I'm not into buying such old equipment. > > The router thing is out of the question then. So, any suggestions? Or, > anything I can DO with this thing? > > Best I can do is to get some experience and fun with old systems. Can > someone direct me to small floppy-based operating systems? Otherwise, i'd recommend RELENG_4 as the OS. Compared to what it was like on my slightly newer 486's Ta Joe From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 19 20:30:31 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B73B516A40A for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 20:30:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [83.120.8.8]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37C1D13C471 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 20:30:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (burahs@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l0JKUNAr059141; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 21:30:29 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.13.4/8.13.1/Submit) id l0JKUN9v059140; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 21:30:23 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 21:30:23 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200701192030.l0JKUN9v059140@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, deeptech71@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <45B00728.5050207@gmail.com> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat User-Agent: tin/1.8.2-20060425 ("Shillay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.11-STABLE (i386)) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 19 Jan 2007 21:30:29 +0100 (CET) Cc: Subject: Re: what can i do with a 486? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, deeptech71@gmail.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 20:30:31 -0000 deeptech71@gmail.com wrote: > So.. couple of days ago I've picked up a 486 box from someone's trashcan. > Seems to work. Some details: > > an old board of some kind (intel) > i486SX 33MHz processor Ypu're out of luck then. Recent versions of FreeBSD require floating-point support to be present, which a 486SX doesn't have. You must have at least a 486DX processor, I'm afraid. Or install an old version of FreeBSD which will emulate FP instructions, but then you don't have security support anymore, which means it's probably a bad idea to connect the machine to the internet, i.e. you shouldn't use it as a router. > 8MB of ram 8 MB isn't much. You won'te be able to run sysinstall with it, and a standard kernel won't be much fun either. But it should be OK with a smaller custom kernel. > a PCI-like slot (is it ISA maybe?), Could be ISA or EISA. Also, in those days VLB slots (Vesa Local Bus) had some popularity, which were basically a 16bit ISA slot plus an extra connector. > Does routing need a lot of RAM? No, routing doesn't need much RAM. At least, not if it's only for a small uplink at home. > What packet throughput speed can I expect when > it's juggling data between RAM and HDD? For packet routing, you don't want the HDD to be involved at all, I'm sure. :-) > But doesn't FreeBSD configure things for specific hardware > when installed on one computer? And does it work if > install on a new generation 386? The standard FreeBSD/i386 installation will work on all supported x86 machines, from a 486DX upwards. > A quality hardware router, or a FreeBSD router? Both have advantages and disadvantages. Different people have different opinions on that matter. Personally I prefer to use a FreeBSD machine as a router, because I dislike "black boxes". You never know what bugs and security issues they might have, and many vendors are not particularly quick when a security hole needs to be fixed. It's not a very good feeling when you know that exploits are circulating in the net and your vendor doesn't provide a new firware for your box. The FreeBSD security folks are usually very quick in providing security advisories and patches, and if you know a bit about C programming, you can even fix things yourself. Heck, even the fact that you _can_ look at the source code if you want is very big plus for FreeBSD. Another plus is the packet filtering. While most hardware routers also provide some packet filtering mechanisms, FreeBSD's IPFW and PF are much more flexible and provide better control of your network traffic. And last but not least, you can let the machine do other things beside routing and filtering if you need to. You need to run a name server? Enable BIND. An NTP server to synchronise the time of your machines? Run ntpd. How about a printer spooler? A VPN gateway? A small http proxy that removes ads from web pages? And so on and on ... Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing Dienstleistungen mit Schwerpunkt FreeBSD: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd Any opinions expressed in this message may be personal to the author and may not necessarily reflect the opinions of secnetix in any way. "Clear perl code is better than unclear awk code; but NOTHING comes close to unclear perl code" (taken from comp.lang.awk FAQ) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 19 20:37:18 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9982916A400 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 20:37:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [83.120.8.8]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 264E213C459 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 20:37:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (dilcle@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l0JKbB9c059344; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 21:37:17 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.13.4/8.13.1/Submit) id l0JKbBaN059343; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 21:37:11 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 21:37:11 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200701192037.l0JKbBaN059343@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, deeptech71@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <45B0E0D6.5060700@gmail.com> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat User-Agent: tin/1.8.2-20060425 ("Shillay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.11-STABLE (i386)) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 19 Jan 2007 21:37:17 +0100 (CET) Cc: Subject: Re: what can i do with a 486? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, deeptech71@gmail.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 20:37:18 -0000 deeptech71@gmail.com wrote: > The HDD is 200MB, not 500MB. That's rather small. Probably too small for a standard installation, but with a little manual tuning you should certainly be able to install FreeBSD on it. I've installed FreeBSD on 32 MB flash cards, and with a little more effort you can even install it on smaller systems. > Couldn't enter the BIOS setup because of a password. Then I > used the board's clear CMOS jumper. Now I can't get into the > BIOS setup, no matter what I press! That doesn't sound good. Maybe the BIOS is broken somehow. > I've installed FreeBSD on a gaming PC to that 200MB drive, > then put it in the 486 comp. Result: "Missing operating > system" error. Are you sure that the installation finished successfully? As I mentioned above, I think 200 MB isn't sufficient for a standard installation. > The router thing is out of the question then. So, any suggestions? Or, > anything I can DO with this thing? You could frame it and nail it to the wall. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing Dienstleistungen mit Schwerpunkt FreeBSD: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd Any opinions expressed in this message may be personal to the author and may not necessarily reflect the opinions of secnetix in any way. One Unix to rule them all, One Resolver to find them, One IP to bring them all and in the zone to bind them. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 19 22:41:40 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8083716A402 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 22:41:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from deeptech71@gmail.com) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.170]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 191A213C44B for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 22:41:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from deeptech71@gmail.com) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id o2so528115uge for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:41:37 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=f3bBSNO93fo8sHTmKjEfC8Gfw4Pub4yq+5fOE+THxW0oQoNIGaEUJImxhBVZSZE/bPbqQyd+QECLh6l2GbMR/V9S8OlLjs7zlY1S9AEFJfXM1C8nZ3xd24OpF1wSDCxAcPPoZJx5UmwGf7SDT136ueZTUgWeaqlzvHvXVfB8h88= Received: by 10.66.219.11 with SMTP id r11mr2001797ugg.1169246496792; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:41:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.123.111? ( [84.2.184.208]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id c1sm2566399ugf.2007.01.19.14.41.35; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:41:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <45B149C2.1070908@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 23:44:18 +0100 From: deeptech71@gmail.com User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <200701192030.l0JKUN9v059140@lurza.secnetix.de> In-Reply-To: <200701192030.l0JKUN9v059140@lurza.secnetix.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: what can i do with a 486? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 22:41:40 -0000 Oliver Fromme wrote: > Ypu're out of luck then. Recent versions of FreeBSD > require floating-point support to be present, which a > 486SX doesn't have. You must have at least a 486DX > processor, I'm afraid. Or install an old version of > FreeBSD which will emulate FP instructions, but then > you don't have security support anymore, which means > it's probably a bad idea to connect the machine to > the internet, i.e. you shouldn't use it as a router. What release (best of which still support it)? > 8 MB isn't much. You won'te be able to run sysinstall > with it, and a standard kernel won't be much fun either. > But it should be OK with a smaller custom kernel. First thing is to find out how to do that :] (i'll read the Handbook later someday) > > But doesn't FreeBSD configure things for specific hardware > > when installed on one computer? And does it work if > > install on a new generation 386? > > The standard FreeBSD/i386 installation will work on > all supported x86 machines, from a 486DX upwards. Sry, I meant: And does it work if install on a new generation 386 FIRST? Did that, and voila, "Missing operating system" > Personally I prefer to use a FreeBSD machine as a > router, because I dislike "black boxes". You never > know what bugs and security issues they might have, > and many vendors are not particularly quick when a > security hole needs to be fixed. It's not a very > good feeling when you know that exploits are > circulating in the net and your vendor doesn't > provide a new firware for your box. Same here... feels good to have control, to be the king :] > The FreeBSD security folks are usually very quick > in providing security advisories and patches, and > if you know a bit about C programming, you can even > fix things yourself. Heck, even the fact that you > _can_ look at the source code if you want is very > big plus for FreeBSD. I've read somewhere, that if I want to learn to hack computers, I need to get some UNIX, because Windows isn't open source, and learning is near impossible. That's when I've been directed to FreeBSD. Well, it was just a matter of time until I found out that I still couldn't do anything with the source without knowing C :]. OK, now I do. But, nontheless, FreeBSD seemed like such a stable system, plus there are comparisons of FreeBSD VS Windows in google, it's like 8 - 2. But those tests (uh, comparisons from BSD fans?) were made back in 2000. Where's an up to date comparison? > Are you sure that the installation finished successfully? > As I mentioned above, I think 200 MB isn't sufficient for > a standard installation. Yes yes 100%. First it failed with 150MB '/' and 64MB SWAP, then it woked with 170MB '/' and 32MB SWAP and less distribution sets. The thing is, it simply can't boot up! Even the boot floppies aren't working.. they say 'No /boot/loader' (kern1.flp) and some other error I dont remember (boot.flp). WTF? > You could frame it and nail it to the wall. LOL From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 19 23:44:13 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A132C16A400 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 23:44:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from optimus.centralmiss.com (ns.centralmiss.com [206.156.254.79]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7843D13C448 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 23:44:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from draco.over-yonder.net (adsl-072-148-013-213.sip.jan.bellsouth.net [72.148.13.213]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by optimus.centralmiss.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 027DD2851E; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 17:16:01 -0600 (CST) Received: by draco.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id 405E261C3A; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 17:16:01 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 17:16:01 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, deeptech71@gmail.com Message-ID: <20070119231601.GE63694@over-yonder.net> References: <45B00728.5050207@gmail.com> <200701192030.l0JKUN9v059140@lurza.secnetix.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200701192030.l0JKUN9v059140@lurza.secnetix.de> X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11-fullermd.3 Cc: Subject: Re: what can i do with a 486? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 23:44:13 -0000 On Fri, Jan 19, 2007 at 09:30:23PM +0100 I heard the voice of Oliver Fromme, and lo! it spake thus: > > Personally I prefer to use a FreeBSD machine as a router, because I > dislike "black boxes". I second and carry the motion. Show me a consumer-grade black-box "router" that I can run tcpdump on, then maybe I'll think about switching... but probably not by a long shot. -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ On the Internet, nobody can hear you scream. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 20 04:49:35 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF9F916A401 for ; Sat, 20 Jan 2007 04:49:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phi@evilphi.com) Received: from mail.twinthornes.com (mail.twinthornes.com [65.75.198.147]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 985AD13C465 for ; Sat, 20 Jan 2007 04:49:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phi@evilphi.com) Received: from [10.9.70.4] (c-24-20-142-99.hsd1.mn.comcast.net [24.20.142.99]) by mail.twinthornes.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 949D6F23; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 20:49:34 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <45B19F2D.7080108@evilphi.com> Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 20:48:45 -0800 From: Darren Pilgrim User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Matthew D. Fuller" References: <45B00728.5050207@gmail.com> <200701192030.l0JKUN9v059140@lurza.secnetix.de> <20070119231601.GE63694@over-yonder.net> In-Reply-To: <20070119231601.GE63694@over-yonder.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: what can i do with a 486? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 04:49:35 -0000 Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > On Fri, Jan 19, 2007 at 09:30:23PM +0100 I heard the voice of > Oliver Fromme, and lo! it spake thus: >> Personally I prefer to use a FreeBSD machine as a router, because I >> dislike "black boxes". > > I second and carry the motion. Show me a consumer-grade black-box > "router" that I can run tcpdump on, then maybe I'll think about > switching... but probably not by a long shot. Well I do have a Linksys WRT54G with hacked firmware... :) These days I'd rather install a Cisco 1605R than a old computer with FreeBSD on it. No moving parts and it's getting expensive to build and support old PC hardware (the cost of DRAM is the real issue). I do still have a few FreeBSD routers: underclocked Pentium with a large heat-sink, 48 or 64 MB RAM, DC-DC PS with a wall-wart and a CF card in an IDE reader from which an md / is loaded. In my experience, there just isn't enough power in a 486 to handle being a broadband router. A 100MHz Pentium running RELENG_4, however, has more than enough to handle DSL and cable modem speeds with a pair of fxp interfaces. -- Darren Pilgrim From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 20 17:01:29 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B68E416A411 for ; Sat, 20 Jan 2007 17:01:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from ca.pugetsoundtechnology.com (ca.pugetsoundtechnology.com [38.99.2.247]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97CC013C441 for ; Sat, 20 Jan 2007 17:01:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from pool-71-123-204-253.dllstx.fios.verizon.net ([71.123.204.253] helo=reedmedia.net) by ca.pugetsoundtechnology.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.54) id 1H8Jam-0000v0-Vq for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 20 Jan 2007 09:01:25 -0800 Received: from reed@reedmedia.net by reedmedia.net with local (mailout 0.17) id 20252-1169312454; Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:01:23 -0600 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:00:54 -0600 (CST) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: beastie logo seen on TV X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 17:01:29 -0000 I was briefly watching the Discovery Science channel on TV a few weeks ago. I think the episode was called "Robosapiens". It showed some software used by a person in a coma. (I am not sure how as I missed most of the show and was doing other things.) But anyways, they showed a few times a graphic of the BSD daemon aka "beastie" on the display of that software. It was one of a few graphics on the display. My wife and I are pretty sure it had tennis shoes on. Anyone heard of that software? Jeremy C. Reed