From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 14 14:14:47 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6162610656AD; Sun, 14 Sep 2008 14:14:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bms@incunabulum.net) Received: from out4.smtp.messagingengine.com (out4.smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DF898FC14; Sun, 14 Sep 2008 14:14:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bms@incunabulum.net) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.internal [10.202.2.41]) by out1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F06EB16112F; Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:14:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from heartbeat1.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.160]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:14:45 -0400 X-Sasl-enc: Oi8GJI9bcBi/hF4t8zub+EbVDadPMcPsU+1c8Vj3YKaq 1221401685 Received: from empiric.lon.incunabulum.net (82-35-112-254.cable.ubr07.dals.blueyonder.co.uk [82.35.112.254]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4D982634E; Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:14:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <48CD1C54.7040208@incunabulum.net> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 15:14:44 +0100 From: Bruce M Simpson User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080514) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Baldwin References: <48C8F684.8090409@incunabulum.net> <200809111043.18265.jhb@freebsd.org> <48CB21C7.9050706@incunabulum.net> <200809131109.06694.jhb@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <200809131109.06694.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Jeremy Chadwick , FreeBSD stable Subject: Re: alpm(4) I/O range is claimed by ACPI X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 14:14:47 -0000 John Baldwin wrote: >> But surely if alpm(4) were to attach to such a range in this way, it >> would need to be a child of the acpi bus device, yes? >> > > No, the code in acpi_alloc_resources() does _not_ check for that. Any child > device with a specific allocation that falls in a system resource range will > succeed the allocation. > Ah, it is clearer after looking at devinfo output. Allocations will bubble up the bus drivers until they get to nexus. In this case, acpi is a child of nexus, therefore it will satisfy the allocation. >> It looks like there used to be a means of doing this in the FreeBSD >> driver but it got nuked. And that ASUS didn't much care about power >> management support in this machine... >> > > If you can re-enable it in such a way that it uses bus_alloc_resource(), then > the driver will probably work fine. > In that case it sounds like one needs to be able to use a hard-wired hint. It has been over a year since I've been able to do any proper work on mips , which needs a lot of this sort of thing, and I don't have a compelling case to do it now, so hopefully someone with an interest can pick this up. cheers BMS From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 14 16:53:30 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCE6B1065672 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 2008 16:53:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kamikaze@bsdforen.de) Received: from mail.bsdforen.de (bsdforen.de [212.204.60.79]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DEF98FC0C for ; Sun, 14 Sep 2008 16:53:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kamikaze@bsdforen.de) Received: from mobileKamikaze.norad (unknown [92.117.250.173]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.bsdforen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C8F98A013E for ; Sun, 14 Sep 2008 18:21:53 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <48CD3A19.8030404@bsdforen.de> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 18:21:45 +0200 From: Dominic Fandrey User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (X11/20080810) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: crossbuilding of RELENG_7 broken? X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 16:53:30 -0000 Hello, I've been building my i386 systems on an amd64 system for some time, now and this is the first time I encounter problems. Building them works fine, but when I nfs-mount /usr/obj and /usr/src on the target system, install does not work. Neiter installkernel nor installworld. I can install the Kernel by cd-ing into the right directory und /usr/obj and run 'make install', but I have not found a workaround for installing world. Does anyone else encounter this? If someone is interested I'll produce some logs, but I'll have to compile again - I've thrown away all built attempts in my frustration. From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 14 19:47:35 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 708791065670 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 2008 19:47:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd-ml@scrapper.ca) Received: from idcmail-mo2no.shaw.ca (idcmail-mo2no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.9]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A5348FC19 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 2008 19:47:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd-ml@scrapper.ca) Received: from pd5ml1no-ssvc.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.153.166]) by pd7mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca with ESMTP; 14 Sep 2008 13:19:26 -0600 X-Cloudmark-SP-Filtered: true X-Cloudmark-SP-Result: v=1.0 c=0 a=nu28Z3xOAdSAqeds7TAA:9 a=iSGnedEmSLLzWavvPKYA:7 a=jAvlwyLCvhrPUWDAU8-kXN82yDwA:4 a=fEqUOrK9dhAA:10 a=-Dy9-r-g_JMA:10 Received: from s010600121729c74c.vc.shawcable.net (HELO proven.lan) ([24.85.241.34]) by pd5ml1no-dmz.prod.shaw.ca with ESMTP; 14 Sep 2008 13:19:26 -0600 Received: from proven.lan (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by proven.lan (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id m8EJJPiK003268 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 2008 12:19:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fbsd-ml@scrapper.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by proven.lan (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id m8EJJPD3003267 for freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; Sun, 14 Sep 2008 12:19:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fbsd-ml@scrapper.ca) X-Authentication-Warning: proven.lan: npapke set sender to fbsd-ml@scrapper.ca using -f From: Norbert Papke Organization: Archaeological Filing To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 12:19:24 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200809141219.24943.fbsd-ml@scrapper.ca> Subject: Possible UDP related deadlock in 7.1-PRERELEASE X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 19:47:35 -0000 Environment: * i386, 7.1 Prerelease (updated today) with a custom UP kernel, ULE scheduler * KDE 3.5.10 * NIC does not share interrupts with another device * See below for configuration files Symptoms: * I can trigger this lockup reliably by starting ktorrent. After a short while (one to two minutes), it locks up. Other commands, e.g., netstat, also lock up. * The console generates "nfe0: watchdog timeout" error messages. * The system becomes unusable and must be rebooted. Attempted Work-arounds: * I have replaced the NIC. No change except now the console now generates "dc0: watchdog timeout". * I have tried an SMP kernel. No change. Attempted Diagnosis: If I break into DDB, the 'ps' output shows a number of processes that seem to be locked related to udp. [irq18:dc0] L *udp ktorrent L *udpinp hald L *udp ntpd L *udp Unfortunately, I am rapidly getting out of my depth here. I have no idea how to go about further analyzing this problem and would appreciate help. Cheers, -- Norbert. /boot/loader.conf: loader_logo=beastie verbose_loading="YES" cpufreq_load="YES" geom_gpt_load="YES" hwpmc_load="YES" # File systems cd9660_load="YES" msdosfs_load="YES" # NIC supprt (MII provides common controller code) miibus_load="YES" if_dc_load=YES pflog_load="YES" procfs_load="YES" # USB ugen_load="YES" uhid_load="YES" ukbd_load="YES" umass_load="YES" ums_load="YES" # Linux linprocfs_load="YES" linux_load="YES" nvidia_load="YES" pseudo_load="YES" random_load="YES" snd_hda_load="YES" # SYSV support sysvmsg_load="YES" sysvsem_load="YES" sysvshm_load="YES" # For gamin kern.maxfiles="25000" # For ZFS vm.kmem_size="512M" vm.kmem_size_max="512M" vfs.zfs.arc_max="160M" vfs.zfs.arc_min="100M" vfs.zfs.vdev.cache.size="5M" vfs.zfs.debug=1 vfs.zfs.prefetch_disable="1" Kernel Config: machine i386 cpu I686_CPU ident NGP makeoptions DEBUG=-g # Build kernel with gdb(1) debug symbols options KDB # kernel debugger (just in case) options KDB_TRACE options DDB # kernel debugger (just in case) options SCHED_ULE # ULE scheduler options PREEMPTION # Enable kernel thread preemption options INET # InterNETworking options INET6 # IPv6 communications protocols options SCTP # Stream Control Transmission Protocol options FFS # Berkeley Fast Filesystem options SOFTUPDATES # Enable FFS soft updates support options UFS_ACL # Support for access control lists options UFS_DIRHASH # Improve performance on big directories options UFS_GJOURNAL # Enable gjournal-based UFS journaling options MD_ROOT # MD is a potential root device options COMPAT_43 # Compatible with BSD 4.3 [KEEP THIS!] options COMPAT_FREEBSD4 # Compatible with FreeBSD4 options COMPAT_FREEBSD5 # Compatible with FreeBSD5 options COMPAT_FREEBSD6 # Compatible with FreeBSD6 options KTRACE # ktrace(1) support options STACK # stack(9) support options _KPOSIX_PRIORITY_SCHEDULING # POSIX P1003_1B real-time extensions options KBD_INSTALL_CDEV # install a CDEV entry in /dev options AHC_REG_PRETTY_PRINT # Print register bitfields in debug # output. Adds ~128k to driver. options AHD_REG_PRETTY_PRINT # Print register bitfields in debug # output. Adds ~215k to driver. options ADAPTIVE_GIANT # Giant mutex is adaptive. options STOP_NMI # Stop CPUS using NMI instead of IPI options HWPMC_HOOKS # hwpmc(4) performance measurements support. also needs device or kernel module #option KVA_PAGES=512 # bigger kernel address space (2GB) for ZFS (conflicts with nvidia-driver) # Alternate Queuing of network packets options ALTQ options ALTQ_CBQ # Class Bases Queuing (CBQ) options ALTQ_RED # Random Early Detection (RED) options ALTQ_RIO # RED In/Out options ALTQ_HFSC # Hierarchical Packet Scheduler (HFSC) options ALTQ_PRIQ # Priority Queuing (PRIQ) #options ALTQ_NOPCC # Required for SMP build device apic # I/O APIC # Bus support. device eisa device pci # ATA and ATAPI devices device ata device atadisk # ATA disk drives device ataraid # ATA RAID drives device atapicd # ATAPI CDROM drives options ATA_STATIC_ID # Static device numbering device atapicam # SCSI emulation for ATA device scbus device cd # SCSI CD (for atapicam) device da # SCSI disk (for umass) device pass # atkbdc0 controls both the keyboard and the PS/2 mouse device atkbdc # AT keyboard controller device atkbd # AT keyboard device psm # PS/2 mouse device kbdmux # keyboard multiplexer device vga # VGA video card driver device splash # Splash screen and screen saver support # syscons is the default console driver, resembling an SCO console device sc option SC_HISTORY_SIZE=1000 # normal output options SC_NORM_ATTR=(FG_GREEN|BG_BLACK) options SC_NORM_REV_ATTR=(FG_YELLOW|BG_GREEN) # kernel messages options SC_KERNEL_CONS_ATTR=(FG_LIGHTRED|BG_BLACK) options SC_KERNEL_CONS_REV_ATTR=(FG_BLACK|BG_RED) # Add suspend/resume support for the i8254. device pmtimer # Parallel port device ppc device ppbus # Parallel port bus (required) #device lpt # Printer #device plip # TCP/IP over parallel #device ppi # Parallel port interface device #device vpo # Requires scbus and da # PCI Ethernet NICs that use the common MII bus controller code. # NOTE: Be sure to keep the 'device miibus' line in order to use these NICs! device miibus # MII bus support # Pseudo devices. device loop # Network loopback device ether # Ethernet support device sl # Kernel SLIP device ppp # Kernel PPP device tun # Packet tunnel. device pty # Pseudo-ttys (telnet etc) device md # Memory "disks" device gif # IPv6 and IPv4 tunneling device faith # IPv6-to-IPv4 relaying (translation) # The `bpf' device enables the Berkeley Packet Filter. # Be aware of the administrative consequences of enabling this! # Note that 'bpf' is required for DHCP. device bpf # Berkeley packet filter # USB support (specific devices loaded as modules) device uhci # UHCI PCI->USB interface device ohci # OHCI PCI->USB interface device ehci # EHCI PCI->USB interface (USB 2.0) device usb # cannot be module -- otherwise compile errors From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 15 07:56:12 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 337051065670 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 07:56:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mh@kernel32.de) Received: from crivens.kernel32.de (crivens.terrorteam.de [81.169.171.191]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDB678FC23 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 07:56:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mh@kernel32.de) Received: from kernel32.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by crivens.kernel32.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60567B02CF; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:56:10 +0200 (CEST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:56:10 +0200 From: Marian Hettwer To: Ilya Bakulin In-Reply-To: <1221235898.1784.9.camel@localhost> References: <1221235898.1784.9.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <6aff3946d1ffdd72561648b346093be3@localhost> X-Sender: mh@kernel32.de User-Agent: RoundCube Webmail/0.1-rc2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: RELENG_7 nvidia xorg hard lock X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 07:56:12 -0000 >> Reply to myself: >> >> it seems, that the nvidia card isn't recognized by the nvidia kld. >> xorg.log states: >> (EE) NVIDIA(0): Failed to initialize the NVIDIA kernel module! Please >> ensure >> (EE) NVIDIA(0): that there is a supported NVIDIA GPU in this system, >> and >> (EE) NVIDIA(0): that the NVIDIA device files have been created >> properly. >> (EE) NVIDIA(0): Please consult the NVIDIA README for details. >> (EE) NVIDIA(0): *** Aborting *** >> >> Wh00t? This card worked before... >> nvidia0: on vgapci0 >> vgapci0: child nvidia0 requested pci_enable_busmaster >> vgapci0: child nvidia0 requested pci_enable_io >> nvidia0: [GIANT-LOCKED] >> nvidia0: [ITHREAD] >> >> Something is odd here... >> > > Obviously Xorg has nothing to do with this issue. You are right on that point. > Please make sure that your nvidia module is up-to-date and in sync with > current kernel. It is. I double checked that. > If I were you, I would delete nvidia-driver package, make sure that it has > gone from /boot/modules, than download latest driver version > and recompile it. After that try to reboot and see what happens. > That's what I actually did. "make deinstall" the nvidia-driver, checked /boot/modules and recompiled the driver. Afterwards reboot, since the pkg-message states, users of 7.X and above shouldn't use kldload but loader.conf instead (why's that by the way???). Still no luck. The card doesn't get recognized. And it used to work, as I wrote in my initial mail. I even plugged the card into a different box to verify that the hardware is okay. It is! best regards, Marian > > From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 15 08:41:58 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38DDD106567C for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 08:41:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from mail17.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail17.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.198]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A601A8FC14 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 08:41:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (c122-106-215-175.belrs3.nsw.optusnet.com.au [122.106.215.175]) by mail17.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id m8F8fRgm002641 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:41:29 +1000 X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (localhost.vk2pj.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8F8fR4Y034393; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:41:27 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m8F8fQKM034392; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:41:26 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:41:26 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: Dominic Fandrey Message-ID: <20080915084126.GW15376@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> References: <48CD3A19.8030404@bsdforen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="IfZ+tgy+ooJOsAAy" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <48CD3A19.8030404@bsdforen.de> X-PGP-Key: http://members.optusnet.com.au/peterjeremy/pubkey.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: crossbuilding of RELENG_7 broken? X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 08:41:58 -0000 --IfZ+tgy+ooJOsAAy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2008-Sep-14 18:21:45 +0200, Dominic Fandrey wrote: >Building them works fine, but when I nfs-mount /usr/obj and /usr/src on the >target system, install does not work. Neiter installkernel nor installworl= d. You're going to have to give more detail - like your exact command and the last few dozen lines of the make install{world,kernel} output. --=20 Peter Jeremy Please excuse any delays as the result of my ISP's inability to implement an MTA that is either RFC2821-compliant or matches their claimed behaviour. --IfZ+tgy+ooJOsAAy Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkjOH7YACgkQ/opHv/APuIdSkQCgt+h2syrtsZManbNoOlTd75hR 0pQAn3W91GmVRIbhAtmWG182oQBri0os =8dgZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --IfZ+tgy+ooJOsAAy-- From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 15 09:37:22 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D11901065671 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:37:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gavin@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail-gw0.york.ac.uk (mail-gw0.york.ac.uk [144.32.128.245]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FBE48FC1D for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:37:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gavin@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail-gw7.york.ac.uk (mail-gw7.york.ac.uk [144.32.129.30]) by mail-gw0.york.ac.uk (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id m8F9bC1o024455; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:37:12 +0100 (BST) Received: from buffy-128.york.ac.uk ([144.32.128.160] helo=buffy.york.ac.uk) by mail-gw7.york.ac.uk with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1KfAW8-00002r-8v; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:37:12 +0100 Received: from buffy.york.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by buffy.york.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8F9bBwN049499; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:37:11 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from gavin@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from ga9@localhost) by buffy.york.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m8F9bB1B049498; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:37:11 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from gavin@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: buffy.york.ac.uk: ga9 set sender to gavin@FreeBSD.org using -f From: Gavin Atkinson To: Norbert Papke In-Reply-To: <200809141219.24943.fbsd-ml@scrapper.ca> References: <200809141219.24943.fbsd-ml@scrapper.ca> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:37:11 +0100 Message-Id: <1221471431.49328.5.camel@buffy.york.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.2 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port X-York-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-York-MailScanner-From: gavin@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Possible UDP related deadlock in 7.1-PRERELEASE X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:37:22 -0000 On Sun, 2008-09-14 at 12:19 -0700, Norbert Papke wrote: > Symptoms: > > * I can trigger this lockup reliably by starting ktorrent. After a short > while (one to two minutes), it locks up. Other commands, e.g., netstat, also > lock up. > * The console generates "nfe0: watchdog timeout" error messages. > * The system becomes unusable and must be rebooted. > Attempted Diagnosis: > > If I break into DDB, the 'ps' output shows a number of processes that seem to > be locked related to udp. > > [irq18:dc0] L *udp > ktorrent L *udpinp > hald L *udp > ntpd L *udp > > Unfortunately, I am rapidly getting out of my depth here. I have no idea how > to go about further analyzing this problem and would appreciate help. Can you add: options WITNESS options WITNESS_SKIPSPIN to your kernel, recompile and wait for the problem to happen again? When it does, from the debugger issue "sh alllocks" and make a note of the output? This will probably show that two locks are held, "Giant" and "udp", along with the thread that holds each of them. Take the ID of the thread that holds the "udp" lock, and enter "tr 100150" (where 100150 is the thread ID. This should hopefully provide enough info to figure out what is happening. Thanks, Gavin From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 15 13:09:51 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03D3D1065678 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 13:09:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Received: from falcon.cybervisiontech.com (falcon.cybervisiontech.com [217.20.163.9]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA32D8FC08 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 13:09:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by falcon.cybervisiontech.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56B2774419E for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:09:49 +0300 (EEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at falcon.cybervisiontech.com Received: from falcon.cybervisiontech.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (falcon.cybervisiontech.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4ooCBee4Risl for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:09:49 +0300 (EEST) Received: from [10.2.1.87] (gateway.cybervisiontech.com.ua [91.198.50.114]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by falcon.cybervisiontech.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9938744199 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:09:48 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <48CE5E9B.9000304@icyb.net.ua> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:09:47 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (X11/20080805) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Stable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: sio => uart: one port is gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 13:09:51 -0000 This is a fairly standard and old machine with 2 COM ports. Recently (last Friday) I decided to update my RELENG_7 system and also to transition from sio to uart. This what I had before the upgrade: kernel: sio0: <16550A-compatible COM port> port 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on acpi0 kernel: sio0: type 16550A kernel: sio0: [FILTER] kernel: sio1: <16550A-compatible COM port> port 0x2e8-0x2ef irq 3 on acpi0 kernel: sio1: type 16550A kernel: sio1: [FILTER] This is what I have now: uart0: <16550 or compatible> at port 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on isa0 uart0: [FILTER] This is what I have in device.hints for uart: hint.uart.0.at="isa" hint.uart.0.port="0x3F8" hint.uart.0.flags="0x10" hint.uart.0.irq="4" hint.uart.1.at="isa" hint.uart.1.port="0x2F8" hint.uart.1.irq="3" hint.uart.2.at="isa" Precisely the same hints (s/uart/sio/) I had for sio. Please advise. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 15 14:36:07 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B7C11065671 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:36:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from smithi@nimnet.asn.au) Received: from sola.nimnet.asn.au (paqi.nimnet.asn.au [220.233.188.227]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 135948FC31 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:36:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from smithi@nimnet.asn.au) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sola.nimnet.asn.au (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8FEa3w4082145; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 00:36:03 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from smithi@nimnet.asn.au) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 00:36:03 +1000 (EST) From: Ian Smith To: Andriy Gapon In-Reply-To: <48CE5E9B.9000304@icyb.net.ua> Message-ID: <20080916002823.E439@sola.nimnet.asn.au> References: <48CE5E9B.9000304@icyb.net.ua> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: FreeBSD Stable Subject: Re: sio => uart: one port is gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:36:07 -0000 On Mon, 15 Sep 2008, Andriy Gapon wrote: > This is a fairly standard and old machine with 2 COM ports. > Recently (last Friday) I decided to update my RELENG_7 system and also > to transition from sio to uart. > > This what I had before the upgrade: > kernel: sio0: <16550A-compatible COM port> port 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags > 0x10 on acpi0 > kernel: sio0: type 16550A > kernel: sio0: [FILTER] > kernel: sio1: <16550A-compatible COM port> port 0x2e8-0x2ef irq 3 on acpi0 > kernel: sio1: type 16550A > kernel: sio1: [FILTER] > > This is what I have now: > uart0: <16550 or compatible> at port 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on isa0 > uart0: [FILTER] > > This is what I have in device.hints for uart: > hint.uart.0.at="isa" > hint.uart.0.port="0x3F8" > hint.uart.0.flags="0x10" > hint.uart.0.irq="4" > hint.uart.1.at="isa" > hint.uart.1.port="0x2F8" but it's shown as 0x2e8 above .. > hint.uart.1.irq="3" > hint.uart.2.at="isa" > > Precisely the same hints (s/uart/sio/) I had for sio. 0x2f8 is 'standard COM2' address .. did sio1 work ok at 0x2e8 before? cheers, Ian From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 15 15:38:04 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E8421065670 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:38:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Received: from falcon.cybervisiontech.com (falcon.cybervisiontech.com [217.20.163.9]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42B558FC1B for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:38:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by falcon.cybervisiontech.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 517E574419A; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:38:03 +0300 (EEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at falcon.cybervisiontech.com Received: from falcon.cybervisiontech.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (falcon.cybervisiontech.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zc1VDG7y196p; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:38:03 +0300 (EEST) Received: from [10.2.1.87] (gateway.cybervisiontech.com.ua [91.198.50.114]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by falcon.cybervisiontech.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E951374418E; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:38:02 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <48CE815A.9040907@icyb.net.ua> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:38:02 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (X11/20080805) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ian Smith References: <48CE5E9B.9000304@icyb.net.ua> <20080916002823.E439@sola.nimnet.asn.au> In-Reply-To: <20080916002823.E439@sola.nimnet.asn.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD Stable Subject: Re: sio => uart: one port is gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:38:04 -0000 on 15/09/2008 17:36 Ian Smith said the following: > On Mon, 15 Sep 2008, Andriy Gapon wrote: > > This is a fairly standard and old machine with 2 COM ports. > > Recently (last Friday) I decided to update my RELENG_7 system and also > > to transition from sio to uart. > > > > This what I had before the upgrade: > > kernel: sio0: <16550A-compatible COM port> port 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags > > 0x10 on acpi0 > > kernel: sio0: type 16550A > > kernel: sio0: [FILTER] > > kernel: sio1: <16550A-compatible COM port> port 0x2e8-0x2ef irq 3 on acpi0 > > kernel: sio1: type 16550A > > kernel: sio1: [FILTER] > > > > This is what I have now: > > uart0: <16550 or compatible> at port 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on isa0 > > uart0: [FILTER] > > > > This is what I have in device.hints for uart: > > hint.uart.0.at="isa" > > hint.uart.0.port="0x3F8" > > hint.uart.0.flags="0x10" > > hint.uart.0.irq="4" > > hint.uart.1.at="isa" > > hint.uart.1.port="0x2F8" > > but it's shown as 0x2e8 above .. > > > hint.uart.1.irq="3" > > hint.uart.2.at="isa" > > > > Precisely the same hints (s/uart/sio/) I had for sio. > > 0x2f8 is 'standard COM2' address .. did sio1 work ok at 0x2e8 before? Ian, thank you, I guess I had a typo in my hints, but the port did work. Looking at the old dmesg I see that sio devices are found 'on acpi0' as opposed to uart now being found on 'isa0'. Maybe this is another difference. Maybe sio was attached using some information from acpi, so hints were not that important. But maybe the same acpi information is not applied to uart, so it does depend on the hints. If this guess is correct then this is a regression in sio=>uart transition, if not, then I'll just correct my device.hints and shut up :-) -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 15 15:57:03 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C929F106564A for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:57:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gphoto6@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gx0-f17.google.com (mail-gx0-f17.google.com [209.85.217.17]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75EA78FC12 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:57:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gphoto6@gmail.com) Received: by gxk10 with SMTP id 10so23661975gxk.19 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 08:57:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:mime-version:content-type; bh=k7o6ZYQIphxuBhOpPzaWne1XfF3iCaIc+5RwpC6d0EU=; b=fGU2idi7lF+467RJtcv0SG058VhXGsvATKFxyNxcDFQtk0UvF5BZ5qrLTGJu1MaE7D +9MQzk10NphEXGQ7aW+qSduFauOUNgKxO/aAtDI5g7WSN2dxI1jzlimLpPGmT3qkJHyG RVfDqEW69/JcpbwwBRN1dBH6nUBqSF9y0WLPE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=acjnQN2HLyMScSLPg60B1I7cpz5wjMbIm+EBu3R+VBrE2XmE8W7K+pnYvQ67WYIrds lkqYF482UXWfme15Xo1UacX0gFrWgfKDXPFMBqwR7Sz8ycisrla8NH8nN3S3cGdYnOBO JXm8EqQIewJCV1E3oHUX6zOKspp0BgABdbaNo= Received: by 10.151.109.11 with SMTP id l11mr10907856ybm.204.1221494222670; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 08:57:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.41.19 with HTTP; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 08:57:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1f51039c0809150857l50b6be8eu848e21189a4175d6@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 23:57:02 +0800 From: "Tim Chen" To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Suddenly frozen fcntl/stat call on NFS over TCP with MTU 9000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:57:03 -0000 Currently I was running a mail server using a netapp filer as backend storage. >From time to time, the whole system get stuck and lasted for 3-5 minutes. But after that, everything recovers normally. During the "stuck" moment, using ps auxw shows 200-300 of mail delivery agent(MDA) processes staying in "D" status. The command df certainly does not reponse either. System configuration: 1. NFS server: NetApp FAS3020 2. NFS client: acting as a smtp/pop3/imap server. freebsd 7.0-stable (almost 7.1-prelease) hardware: IBM x3550 server network interface: bce1: mem 0xc8000000-0xc9ffffff irq 18 at device 0.0 on pci4 miibus0: on bce0 brgphy0: PHY 1 on miibus0 brgphy0: 10baseT, 10baseT-FDX, 100baseTX, 100baseTX-FDX, 1000baseT, 1000baseT-FDX, auto bce1: Ethernet address: 00:1a:64:--:--:-- bce1: [ITHREAD] bce1: ASIC (0x57081020); Rev (B2); Bus (PCI-X, 64-bit, 133MHz); F/W (0x04000305); Flags( MFW MSI ) ifconfig: bce1: flags=8843 metric 0 mtu 9000 options=1bb ether 00:1a:64:--:--:-- inet 192.168.1.166 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 192.168.1.255 media: Ethernet autoselect (1000baseTX ) status: active software: postfix 2.5.4 courier-imap 4.4.1 maildrop 2.0.4 After further investigation, I found that the situation is most severe when nfs over tcp and using mtu 9000. If nfs mount is changed to either (over udp and mtu 9000) or (over tcp and mtu 1500), things get significantly improvement. The frequency of "suddenly hang" decreases from every 10-15 min to several hours. Another observation is the "freeze" happens more frequently when server load is high, especially working hours. So I believed it is tightly related to server load (or nfs load). I tried to modify the source code of MDA (maildrop) and adding some debug code to identify the problem. What I found is: 1) MDA processing time always approximate 0 sec or < 1 sec when things work normally. 2) MDA processing time may up to 30 second when system got stuck. If the incoming email continues to come, later emails may cost up to 200 second to complete. At this time, using ps auxw shows MDAs were in "D" status. 3) Detail trace shows the processing time spent were waiting around the fcntl (lock) and stat(fstat) code. One more thing to note: I've tried to turn on and off rpc.statd,rpc.lockd, -L mount, even compile NFSLOCKD in kernel. All were in vain, things still got stuck when using NFS over TCP with mtu 9000. We have already lots of mail servers whose hardware were different and OS is freebsd 6-stable. Softwares were all the same but with prior version. Those servers didn't show any of the above strange behavior. Based on all of the above experiment and observation, I guess there might be something wrong with: 1) NFS or network stack of freebsd 7 2) fcntl/stat over NFS 3) bce driver Need your help/suggestion to solve the problem! Thanks very much. Sincerely, Tim Chen From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 15 16:19:05 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7945E106567E for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:19:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kamikaze@bsdforen.de) Received: from mail.bsdforen.de (bsdforen.de [212.204.60.79]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 187A58FC1D for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:19:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kamikaze@bsdforen.de) Received: from mobileKamikaze.norad (unknown [92.116.180.83]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.bsdforen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1BC88A00D3; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:18:39 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <48CE8AD4.8090408@bsdforen.de> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:18:28 +0200 From: Dominic Fandrey User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (X11/20080810) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Jeremy References: <48CD3A19.8030404@bsdforen.de> <20080915084126.GW15376@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> In-Reply-To: <20080915084126.GW15376@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: crossbuilding of RELENG_7 broken? X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:19:05 -0000 Peter Jeremy wrote: > On 2008-Sep-14 18:21:45 +0200, Dominic Fandrey wrote: >> Building them works fine, but when I nfs-mount /usr/obj and /usr/src on the >> target system, install does not work. Neiter installkernel nor installworld. > > You're going to have to give more detail - like your exact command and > the last few dozen lines of the make install{world,kernel} output. > So well, here it is: Command on the amd64 build machine: # env MAKEOBJDIRPREFIX=/usr/obj/VECTRA-7 make -j4 buildworld buildkernel KERNCONF=VECTRA-7 It builds without incident and yes I did try without -j4 and it didn't work either. On the i386 target machine, /usr/src and /usr/obj are NFS mounts: =============================================================== # env MAKEOBJDIRPREFIX=/usr/obj/VECTRA-7/i386 make installkernel KERNCONF=VECTRA-7 -------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Installing kernel -------------------------------------------------------------- cd /usr/obj/VECTRA-7/i386/usr/src/sys/VECTRA-7; MAKEOBJDIRPREFIX=/usr/obj/VECTRA-7/i386 MACHINE_ARCH=i386 MACHINE=i386 CPUTYPE=pentium4 GROFF_BIN_PATH=/usr/obj/VECTRA-7/i386/usr/src/tmp/legacy/usr/bin GROFF_FONT_PATH=/usr/obj/VECTRA-7/i386/usr/src/tmp/legacy/usr/share/groff_font GROFF_TMAC_PATH=/usr/obj/VECTRA-7/i386/usr/src/tmp/legacy/usr/share/tmac PATH=/usr/obj/VECTRA-7/i386/usr/src/tmp/legacy/usr/sbin:/usr/obj/VECTRA-7/i386/usr/src/tmp/legacy/usr/bin:/usr/obj/VECTRA-7/i386/usr/src/tmp/legacy/usr/games:/usr/obj/VECTRA-7/i386/usr/src/tmp/usr/sbin:/usr/obj/VECTRA-7/i386/usr/src/tmp/usr/bin:/usr/obj/VECTRA-7/i386/usr/src/tmp/usr/games:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin make KERNEL=kernel install thiskernel=`sysctl -n kern.bootfile` ; if [ ! "`dirname "$thiskernel"`" -ef /boot/kernel ] ; then chflags -R noschg /boot/kernel ; rm -rf /boot/kernel ; else if [ -d /boot/kernel.old ] ; then chflags -R noschg /boot/kernel.old ; rm -rf /boot/kernel.old ; fi ; mv /boot/kernel /boot/kernel.old ; sysctl kern.bootfile=/boot/kernel.old/"`basename "$thiskernel"`" ; fi mkdir -p /boot/kernel install -p -m 555 -o root -g wheel kernel /boot/kernel ¨èè@èFreeBSDЮ: not found @@ææððWðW: not found ELF: not found /usr/obj/VECTRA-7/i386/usr/src/tmp/legacy/usr/bin/install: 19: Syntax error: ")" unexpected *** Error code 2 Stop in /usr/obj/VECTRA-7/i386/usr/src/sys/VECTRA-7. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. =============================================================== I can successfully install the kernel with the following command: # cd /usr/obj/VECTRA-7/i386/usr/src/sys/boot/i386 # make install The system boots fine with a kernel installed like this. I have found no such workaround for installing world. =============================================================== # env MAKEOBJDIRPREFIX=/usr/obj/VECTRA-7/i386 make installworld mkdir -p /tmp/install.LaibTyRC for prog in [ awk cap_mkdb cat chflags chmod chown date echo egrep find grep install-info ln lockf make mkdir mtree mv pwd_mkdb rm sed sh sysctl test true uname wc zic; do cp `which $prog` /tmp/install.LaibTyRC; done cd /usr/src; MAKEOBJDIRPREFIX=/usr/obj/VECTRA-7/i386 MACHINE_ARCH=i386 MACHINE=i386 CPUTYPE=pentium4 GROFF_BIN_PATH=/usr/obj/VECTRA-7/i386/usr/src/tmp/legacy/usr/bin GROFF_FONT_PATH=/usr/obj/VECTRA-7/i386/usr/src/tmp/legacy/usr/share/groff_font GROFF_TMAC_PATH=/usr/obj/VECTRA-7/i386/usr/src/tmp/legacy/usr/share/tmac PATH=/usr/obj/VECTRA-7/i386/usr/src/tmp/legacy/usr/sbin:/usr/obj/VECTRA-7/i386/usr/src/tmp/legacy/usr/bin:/usr/obj/VECTRA-7/i386/usr/src/tmp/legacy/usr/games:/usr/obj/VECTRA-7/i386/usr/src/tmp/usr/sbin:/usr/obj/VECTRA-7/i386/usr/src/tmp/usr/bin:/usr/obj/VECTRA-7/i386/usr/src/tmp/usr/games:/tmp/install.LaibTyRC make -f Makefile.inc1 reinstall -------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Making hierarchy -------------------------------------------------------------- cd /usr/src; make -f Makefile.inc1 hierarchy cd /usr/src/etc; make distrib-dirs mtree -eU -f /usr/src/etc/mtree/BSD.root.dist -p / root changed type expected dir found link mtree -eU -f /usr/src/etc/mtree/BSD.var.dist -p /var tmp changed type expected dir found link ./tmp/vi.recover missing (created) mtree -eU -f /usr/src/etc/mtree/BSD.usr.dist -p /usr mtree -eU -f /usr/src/etc/mtree/BSD.include.dist -p /usr/include mtree -deU -f /usr/src/etc/mtree/BIND.chroot.dist -p /var/named mtree -deU -f /usr/src/etc/mtree/BSD.sendmail.dist -p / cd /; rm -f /sys; ln -s usr/src/sys sys cd /usr/share/man/en.ISO8859-1; ln -sf ../man* . cd /usr/share/man; set - `grep "^[a-zA-Z]" /usr/src/etc/man.alias`; while [ $# -gt 0 ] ; do rm -rf "$1"; ln -s "$2" "$1"; shift; shift; done cd /usr/share/openssl/man; set - `grep "^[a-zA-Z]" /usr/src/etc/man.alias`; while [ $# -gt 0 ] ; do rm -rf "$1"; ln -s "$2" "$1"; shift; shift; done cd /usr/share/openssl/man/en.ISO8859-1; ln -sf ../man* . cd /usr/share/nls; set - `grep "^[a-zA-Z]" /usr/src/etc/nls.alias`; while [ $# -gt 0 ] ; do rm -rf "$1"; ln -s "$2" "$1"; shift; shift; done -------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Installing everything -------------------------------------------------------------- cd /usr/src; make -f Makefile.inc1 install ===> share/info (install) ===> lib (install) ===> lib/csu/i386-elf (install) install -o root -g wheel -m 444 crt1.o crti.o crtn.o gcrt1.o /usr/lib ¨èè@èFreeBSDЮ: not found @@ææððWðW: not found ELF: not found /usr/obj/VECTRA-7/i386/usr/src/tmp/legacy/usr/bin/install: 19: Syntax error: ")" unexpected *** Error code 2 Stop in /usr/src/lib/csu/i386-elf. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src/lib. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 15 16:37:29 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23461106564A for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:37:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from QMTA05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.48]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C37BE8FC0A for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:37:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from OMTA06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.51]) by QMTA05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id F2vD1a07116LCl0554dTqq; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:37:27 +0000 Received: from koitsu.dyndns.org ([67.180.253.227]) by OMTA06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id F4dR1a00G4v8bD73S4dR1l; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:37:27 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=QycZ5dHgAAAA:8 a=0hpP4_78yf--GJfy0hkA:9 a=qFUdAEGp7chzqc_LmClJEkdkauIA:4 a=EoioJ0NPDVgA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 Received: by icarus.home.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4354D17B81A; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:37:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:37:25 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Andriy Gapon Message-ID: <20080915163725.GA41476@icarus.home.lan> References: <48CE5E9B.9000304@icyb.net.ua> <20080916002823.E439@sola.nimnet.asn.au> <48CE815A.9040907@icyb.net.ua> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <48CE815A.9040907@icyb.net.ua> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: FreeBSD Stable , Ian Smith , marcel@xcllnt.net Subject: Re: sio => uart: one port is gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:37:29 -0000 On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 06:38:02PM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: > on 15/09/2008 17:36 Ian Smith said the following: >> On Mon, 15 Sep 2008, Andriy Gapon wrote: >> > This is a fairly standard and old machine with 2 COM ports. >> > Recently (last Friday) I decided to update my RELENG_7 system and also >> > to transition from sio to uart. >> > > This what I had before the upgrade: >> > kernel: sio0: <16550A-compatible COM port> port 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags >> > 0x10 on acpi0 >> > kernel: sio0: type 16550A >> > kernel: sio0: [FILTER] >> > kernel: sio1: <16550A-compatible COM port> port 0x2e8-0x2ef irq 3 on acpi0 >> > kernel: sio1: type 16550A >> > kernel: sio1: [FILTER] >> > > This is what I have now: >> > uart0: <16550 or compatible> at port 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on isa0 >> > uart0: [FILTER] >> > > This is what I have in device.hints for uart: >> > hint.uart.0.at="isa" >> > hint.uart.0.port="0x3F8" >> > hint.uart.0.flags="0x10" >> > hint.uart.0.irq="4" >> > hint.uart.1.at="isa" >> > hint.uart.1.port="0x2F8" >> >> but it's shown as 0x2e8 above .. >> >> > hint.uart.1.irq="3" >> > hint.uart.2.at="isa" >> > > Precisely the same hints (s/uart/sio/) I had for sio. >> >> 0x2f8 is 'standard COM2' address .. did sio1 work ok at 0x2e8 before? > > Ian, > > thank you, I guess I had a typo in my hints, but the port did work. > Looking at the old dmesg I see that sio devices are found 'on acpi0' as > opposed to uart now being found on 'isa0'. > Maybe this is another difference. > > Maybe sio was attached using some information from acpi, so hints were > not that important. But maybe the same acpi information is not applied > to uart, so it does depend on the hints. > > If this guess is correct then this is a regression in sio=>uart > transition, if not, then I'll just correct my device.hints and shut up > :-) I've CC'd Marcel Moolenaar, who can very likely explain what's going on here. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 15 16:48:41 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2B9F106566C for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:48:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from smithi@nimnet.asn.au) Received: from sola.nimnet.asn.au (paqi.nimnet.asn.au [220.233.188.227]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8487C8FC2D for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:48:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from smithi@nimnet.asn.au) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sola.nimnet.asn.au (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8FGmcfi085459; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 02:48:38 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from smithi@nimnet.asn.au) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 02:48:38 +1000 (EST) From: Ian Smith To: Andriy Gapon In-Reply-To: <48CE815A.9040907@icyb.net.ua> Message-ID: <20080916021035.N439@sola.nimnet.asn.au> References: <48CE5E9B.9000304@icyb.net.ua> <20080916002823.E439@sola.nimnet.asn.au> <48CE815A.9040907@icyb.net.ua> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: FreeBSD Stable Subject: Re: sio => uart: one port is gone X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:48:41 -0000 On Mon, 15 Sep 2008, Andriy Gapon wrote: > on 15/09/2008 17:36 Ian Smith said the following: > > On Mon, 15 Sep 2008, Andriy Gapon wrote: > > > This is a fairly standard and old machine with 2 COM ports. > > > Recently (last Friday) I decided to update my RELENG_7 system and also > > > to transition from sio to uart. > > > > This what I had before the upgrade: > > > kernel: sio0: <16550A-compatible COM port> port 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags > > > 0x10 on acpi0 > > > kernel: sio0: type 16550A > > > kernel: sio0: [FILTER] > > > kernel: sio1: <16550A-compatible COM port> port 0x2e8-0x2ef irq 3 on acpi0 > > > kernel: sio1: type 16550A > > > kernel: sio1: [FILTER] > > > > This is what I have now: > > > uart0: <16550 or compatible> at port 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on isa0 > > > uart0: [FILTER] > > > > This is what I have in device.hints for uart: > > > hint.uart.0.at="isa" > > > hint.uart.0.port="0x3F8" > > > hint.uart.0.flags="0x10" > > > hint.uart.0.irq="4" > > > hint.uart.1.at="isa" > > > hint.uart.1.port="0x2F8" > > > > but it's shown as 0x2e8 above .. > > > > > hint.uart.1.irq="3" > > > hint.uart.2.at="isa" > > > > Precisely the same hints (s/uart/sio/) I had for sio. > > > > 0x2f8 is 'standard COM2' address .. did sio1 work ok at 0x2e8 before? > thank you, I guess I had a typo in my hints, but the port did work. > Looking at the old dmesg I see that sio devices are found 'on acpi0' as > opposed to uart now being found on 'isa0'. > Maybe this is another difference. Does sound a bit odd; looks like the ACPI info trumped hints for sio. > Maybe sio was attached using some information from acpi, so hints were not > that important. But maybe the same acpi information is not applied to uart, > so it does depend on the hints. Sounds a reasonable theory .. so does fixing that hint find the UART? Maybe a verbose dmesg would provide more clues re uart's attachment? > If this guess is correct then this is a regression in sio=>uart transition, > if not, then I'll just correct my device.hints and shut up :-) Or both :) You'd think if ACPI info is available uart should use it, but then if it's attaching to the isa bus instead, maybe not .. hmm. cheers, Ian From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 15 16:48:43 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71E33106568C; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:48:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from mail.netconsonance.com (mail.netconsonance.com [198.207.204.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55C618FC15; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:48:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from [10.66.240.106] (public-wireless.sv.svcolo.com [64.13.135.30]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netconsonance.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m8FGm5HL014458; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:48:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netconsonance.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.002 tagged_above=-999 required=3.5 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1.44, AWL=0.438] Message-Id: <17B9E874-88E0-4DBF-8525-D6FF11FCBAD1@netconsonance.com> From: Jo Rhett To: Ben Kaduk In-Reply-To: <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v928.1) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:48:00 -0700 References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <593618A3-56DA-4891-A4A0-690E9A9C5B32@netconsonance.com> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.928.1) Cc: Nathan Way , Wesley Shields , freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:48:43 -0000 On Sep 5, 2008, at 1:19 PM, Ben Kaduk wrote: > Normal > Releases which are published from a -STABLE branch will be > supported by the Security Officer for a minimum of 12 months after the > release. > Extended > Selected releases will be supported by the Security Officer for a > minimum of 24 months after the release. > > I don't remember seeing any speculation about 6.4 being an extended > release, so, EoL is 12 months after release, whenever that actually > happens. Okay, so 6.3 will EoL at roughly the same time as 6.4. Why should anyone spend any effort on 6.4? > That's the difference between a long-term-support branch and a > regular branch; > many OSes do that. If you want to run the same machines for a long > time and > not have to do a huge battery of tests (at the expense of getting > new features > and better performance in the interim), you use long-term branches. > The regular branches that get released later, will then become > unsupported > at the same time as the (older) long-term branch. > > Yes, it's poor when a long-term branch goes EoL before there's > another one > ready to take its place, but if the new one isn't ready, then you > just use > whichever regular release is current and then snag a long-term release > when it becomes available. Yes, it's more work, but that's life. Is it just me, or does this make no sense at all? This does make it clear to me why the release team can't find the resources to do longer support. Who can convince their company to put resources into the mainstream release effort, when this kind of cycle basically forces every company to run their own internal release process. -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 15 17:00:22 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 708A11065682; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:00:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from mail.netconsonance.com (mail.netconsonance.com [198.207.204.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53B7B8FC12; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:00:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from [10.66.240.106] (public-wireless.sv.svcolo.com [64.13.135.30]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netconsonance.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m8FGxh78014764; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:59:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netconsonance.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.004 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.004 tagged_above=-999 required=3.5 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1.44, AWL=0.436] Message-Id: <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> From: Jo Rhett To: Robert Watson In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v928.1) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:59:38 -0700 References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <593618A3-56DA-4891-A4A0-690E9A9C5B32@netconsonance.com> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.928.1) Cc: freebsd-stable , Wesley Shields , Nathan Way , Ben Kaduk Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:00:22 -0000 On Sep 6, 2008, at 4:06 AM, Robert Watson wrote: > Unfortunately, it's a little hard to tell at time-of-release whether > a particular release will become extended life or not. This is > because extended support status is dependent on the success of the > release ... > from earlier branch adopters. How long we keep release 6.x releases > will depend entirely on how successful 7.x is; I think there's a > reasonable expectation that 6.4 or 6.5 will be the last 6.x release, > in which case we would want to grant it extended support status. > But what happens depends a lot on how successful 7.1 is. My hopes > are high, but there's nothing like real-world deployment to shed > light on things :-). Robert, I'd like to point out to you that when I complained about 6.2's accelerated EoL, I was soundly boxed around the ears and told that I should have been paying attention to the projected EoL date when we decided to roll out 6.2 across the business. I was also told that I should have been more active in the release cycle process for 6.3, etc. Now you are saying that expected EoL will be determined at some random point in the future based on gut feelings about how well a completely different branch is doing. How can I reconcile these disparate points of view? How does one focus on testing and upgrade cycle for an "appropriately supported release" when the decision for the support cycle is completely up in the air? How does one talk to management about getting resources assigned to help with the freebsd release testing process, when one cannot make any valid predictions for that release will even be supported long enough to justify the effort involved in upgrading? What you are saying is completely reasonable from a developers point of view. But those of us who use freebsd in an environment which requires extensive testing and long-term planning for support have trouble with this. In short, I can't imagine how I could possibly make any business case to get support for helping the freebsd dev/rel process at all. Why? Because frankly we're going to be forced to run our own internal release management process instead. I guess this is not surprising, as this appears to be what every other business using significant amounts of freebsd in production are doing today. My point to you is that if this wasn't being forced upon every company that uses FreeBSD, those companies could commit more resources to help the core (main branch, whatever - not "Core") freebsd development. -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 15 19:20:33 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3B10106567D for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:20:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from mail14.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail14.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.195]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 646308FC0A for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:20:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (c122-106-215-175.belrs3.nsw.optusnet.com.au [122.106.215.175]) by mail14.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id m8FJK4YA020225 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 16 Sep 2008 05:20:06 +1000 X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (localhost.vk2pj.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8FJK4LP042360; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 05:20:04 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m8FJK4Mv042359; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 05:20:04 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 05:20:04 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: Dominic Fandrey Message-ID: <20080915192004.GD15376@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> References: <48CD3A19.8030404@bsdforen.de> <20080915084126.GW15376@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> <48CE8AD4.8090408@bsdforen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="wu6d9FdQ4ohoCGf7" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <48CE8AD4.8090408@bsdforen.de> X-PGP-Key: http://members.optusnet.com.au/peterjeremy/pubkey.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: crossbuilding of RELENG_7 broken? X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:20:34 -0000 --wu6d9FdQ4ohoCGf7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2008-Sep-15 18:18:28 +0200, Dominic Fandrey wrote: >Peter Jeremy wrote: >> On 2008-Sep-14 18:21:45 +0200, Dominic Fandrey wr= ote: >>> Building them works fine, but when I nfs-mount /usr/obj and /usr/src on= the >>> target system, install does not work. Neiter installkernel nor installw= orld. >>=20 >> You're going to have to give more detail - like your exact command and >> the last few dozen lines of the make install{world,kernel} output. >>=20 > >So well, here it is: > >Command on the amd64 build machine: > ># env MAKEOBJDIRPREFIX=3D/usr/obj/VECTRA-7 make -j4 buildworld buildkernel= KERNCONF=3DVECTRA-7 > >It builds without incident and yes I did try without -j4 and it didn't wor= k either. > >On the i386 target machine, /usr/src and /usr/obj are NFS mounts: > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ># env MAKEOBJDIRPREFIX=3D/usr/obj/VECTRA-7/i386 make installkernel KERNCON= F=3DVECTRA-7 I didn't understand exactly what you were doing before. The install{world,kernel} must be executed on the same architecture (and similar FreeBSD version) as the build{world,kernel} because the install{world,kernel} executes code that was built as part of the buildworld. Rather than NFS mounting the buildhost onto the target and running install{world,kernel} on the target, you need to NFS mount the target / and /usr onto the buildhost and use DESTDIR to point the install at the correct location. This will work, modulo some chflags issues (chflags isn't supported over NFS - I don't recall offhand where this is discussed but google should be able to help). --=20 Peter Jeremy Please excuse any delays as the result of my ISP's inability to implement an MTA that is either RFC2821-compliant or matches their claimed behaviour. --wu6d9FdQ4ohoCGf7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkjOtWQACgkQ/opHv/APuIc6PQCgm0yEiKqltexI951gC4uNiWYU dy4AoKffGUAJiQeu7O9o7mdpk8pdi8lt =E/Nh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --wu6d9FdQ4ohoCGf7-- From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 15 20:08:38 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1060) id B9EBE1065673; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:08:38 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:08:38 +0000 From: Craig Rodrigues To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080915200838.GA51668@crodrigues.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Subject: ssh to FreeBSD 4 systems: xmalloc: zero size X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:08:38 -0000 Hi, With the latest FreeBSD 7.1 PRE-RELEASE, I am having trouble ssh'ing to FreeBSD 4 systems. I am getting this error: OpenSSH_5.1p1 FreeBSD-20080901, OpenSSL 0.9.8e 23 Feb 2007 debug1: Applying options for * debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh/ssh_config debug1: Connection established. debug1: identity file /homes/rodrigc/.ssh/identity type -1 debug1: identity file /homes/rodrigc/.ssh/id_rsa type -1 debug1: identity file /homes/rodrigc/.ssh/id_dsa type 2 debug1: Remote protocol version 1.99, remote software version OpenSSH_3.5p1 FreeBSD-20060930 debug1: match: OpenSSH_3.5p1 FreeBSD-20060930 pat OpenSSH_3.* debug1: Enabling compatibility mode for protocol 2.0 debug1: Local version string SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_5.1p1 FreeBSD-20080901 debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEXINIT sent debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEXINIT received debug1: kex: server->client aes128-cbc hmac-md5 none debug1: kex: client->server aes128-cbc hmac-md5 none debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_REQUEST(1024<1024<8192) sent debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_GROUP debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_INIT sent debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_REPLY debug1: Host 'bbuild47.juniper.net' is known and matches the DSA host key. debug1: Found key in /homes/rodrigc/.ssh/known_hosts:100 debug1: ssh_dss_verify: signature correct debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS sent debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS received debug1: SSH2_MSG_SERVICE_REQUEST sent debug1: SSH2_MSG_SERVICE_ACCEPT received xmalloc: zero size At this point I cannot log in. The system I am trying to log into is: 4.11-RELEASE-p26 Any ideas? This is a big problem for me, because I have a lot of FreeBSD 4.x servers that I need to log into. Thanks. -- Craig Rodrigues rodrigc@crodrigues.org From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 15 20:49:43 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF03010656A8 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:49:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from server.baldwin.cx (bigknife-pt.tunnel.tserv9.chi1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f10:75::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A46F8FC14 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:49:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from localhost.corp.yahoo.com (john@localhost [IPv6:::1]) (authenticated bits=0) by server.baldwin.cx (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8FKnSXB083294; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:49:36 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:06:23 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <1f51039c0809150857l50b6be8eu848e21189a4175d6@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1f51039c0809150857l50b6be8eu848e21189a4175d6@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200809151606.23933.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (server.baldwin.cx [IPv6:::1]); Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:49:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.1/8250/Mon Sep 15 14:08:28 2008 on server.baldwin.cx X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=4.2 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,NO_RELAYS autolearn=ham version=3.1.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on server.baldwin.cx Cc: Tim Chen Subject: Re: Suddenly frozen fcntl/stat call on NFS over TCP with MTU 9000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:49:43 -0000 On Monday 15 September 2008 11:57:02 am Tim Chen wrote: > Currently I was running a mail server using a netapp filer as backend > storage. > >From time to time, the whole system get stuck and lasted for 3-5 minutes. > But > after that, everything recovers normally. During the "stuck" moment, using > ps > auxw shows 200-300 of mail delivery agent(MDA) processes staying in "D" > status. > The command df certainly does not reponse either. Can you use 'ps axl' to determine the wait mesg ("wchan") of the stuck threads when they hang? If it is "lockf", then make sure you have an up-to-date RELENG_6 kernel as there was a recent fix for a "lockf" hang. Alternatively, if things are stuck in "nfsreq", it may be useful to use tcpdump to look at the NFS requests your client is making. nfsstat can also be useful as you can see which counters are increasing during a hang. -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 15 20:49:46 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 298EA1065686; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:49:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from server.baldwin.cx (bigknife-pt.tunnel.tserv9.chi1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f10:75::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 854E28FC1E; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:49:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from localhost.corp.yahoo.com (john@localhost [IPv6:::1]) (authenticated bits=0) by server.baldwin.cx (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8FKnSXA083294; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:49:30 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:48:32 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <20080719100315.2td4dl2q5ck88wkw@webmail.opentransfer.com> <200807231116.02389.jhb@freebsd.org> <20080913002850.26f322ab@tau.draftnet> In-Reply-To: <20080913002850.26f322ab@tau.draftnet> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200809151548.33070.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (server.baldwin.cx [IPv6:::1]); Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:49:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.1/8250/Mon Sep 15 14:08:28 2008 on server.baldwin.cx X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=4.2 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,NO_RELAYS autolearn=ham version=3.1.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on server.baldwin.cx Cc: Bruce Cran , acpi@freebsd.org, Chadwick , Jeremy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ACPI regression on recent 7.0-STABLE: HPET stops working X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:49:46 -0000 On Friday 12 September 2008 07:28:50 pm Bruce Cran wrote: > On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 11:16:02 -0400 > John Baldwin wrote: > > I've committed the patch. However, I think this actually points out > > a slightly bigger issue in that the HPET timer is probably > > piggybacking on the ichsmb0 device's BAR, and they really should both > > be able to attach somehow. > > > > A way to fix that would be to make the HPET device actually borrow > > the PCI device's resource instead of allocating its own perhaps. I > > think the HPET ACPI device and the table tell us the PCI deviec the > > HPET lives in. > > > > I just upgraded from 7.0-p3 to 7.1-PRERELEASE on my Dell I1501 laptop > and hit this problem too. I noticed the patch was committed to HEAD - > are there any plans to MFC it for 7.1? I will MFC it. -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 15 21:29:42 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1060) id 4DE051065674; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:29:42 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:29:42 +0000 From: Craig Rodrigues To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080915212942.GA87277@crodrigues.org> References: <20080915200838.GA51668@crodrigues.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080915200838.GA51668@crodrigues.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Subject: Re: ssh to FreeBSD 4 systems: xmalloc: zero size X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:29:42 -0000 On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 08:08:38PM +0000, Craig Rodrigues wrote: > Hi, > > With the latest FreeBSD 7.1 PRE-RELEASE, I am having trouble > ssh'ing to FreeBSD 4 systems. > > xmalloc: zero size This looks like the same problem: https://bugzilla.mindrot.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1496 -- Craig Rodrigues rodrigc@crodrigues.org From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 15 22:17:04 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1060) id D15CD1065674; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:17:04 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:17:04 +0000 From: Craig Rodrigues To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080915221704.GA4580@crodrigues.org> References: <20080915200838.GA51668@crodrigues.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080915200838.GA51668@crodrigues.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Cc: Alfred Perlstein , re@FreeBSD.org, Dag-Erling Smorgrav Subject: Re: ssh to FreeBSD 4 systems: xmalloc: zero size X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:17:04 -0000 Hi, I can confirm that this patch solves my problem: https://bugzilla.mindrot.org/attachment.cgi?id=1554 That patch is part of this ssh bug: https://bugzilla.mindrot.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1496 Can we get this fix into FreeBSD before the 7.1 RELEASE? Thanks. -- Craig Rodrigues rodrigc@crodrigues.org On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 08:08:38PM +0000, Craig Rodrigues wrote: > Hi, > > With the latest FreeBSD 7.1 PRE-RELEASE, I am having trouble > ssh'ing to FreeBSD 4 systems. > > I am getting this error: > OpenSSH_5.1p1 FreeBSD-20080901, OpenSSL 0.9.8e 23 Feb 2007 > debug1: Applying options for * > debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh/ssh_config > debug1: Connection established. > debug1: identity file /homes/rodrigc/.ssh/identity type -1 > debug1: identity file /homes/rodrigc/.ssh/id_rsa type -1 > debug1: identity file /homes/rodrigc/.ssh/id_dsa type 2 > debug1: Remote protocol version 1.99, remote software version OpenSSH_3.5p1 FreeBSD-20060930 > debug1: match: OpenSSH_3.5p1 FreeBSD-20060930 pat OpenSSH_3.* > debug1: Enabling compatibility mode for protocol 2.0 > debug1: Local version string SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_5.1p1 FreeBSD-20080901 > debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEXINIT sent > debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEXINIT received > debug1: kex: server->client aes128-cbc hmac-md5 none > debug1: kex: client->server aes128-cbc hmac-md5 none > debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_REQUEST(1024<1024<8192) sent > debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_GROUP > debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_INIT sent > debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_REPLY > debug1: Host 'bbuild47.juniper.net' is known and matches the DSA host key. > debug1: Found key in /homes/rodrigc/.ssh/known_hosts:100 > debug1: ssh_dss_verify: signature correct > debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS sent > debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS > debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS received > debug1: SSH2_MSG_SERVICE_REQUEST sent > debug1: SSH2_MSG_SERVICE_ACCEPT received > xmalloc: zero size > > At this point I cannot log in. The system I am trying to log into > is: 4.11-RELEASE-p26 > Any ideas? > > This is a big problem for me, because I have a lot of FreeBSD 4.x > servers that I need to log into. > > Thanks. > -- > Craig Rodrigues > rodrigc@crodrigues.org From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 15 23:04:50 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 114AD106566C for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 23:04:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivoras@gmail.com) Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com (rv-out-0506.google.com [209.85.198.237]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60B818FC16 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 23:04:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivoras@gmail.com) Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id b25so3100621rvf.43 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:04:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=48+9+53/B2AbTkYzUuigFyqLbcmavBAX7oK2COwabKI=; b=KITMRcDbJa8UHMVeHsN0BkaUEJyniuJHwnJXmv/pjdmxzEL5ppAb52r2fwGNLtq4Bn 9vIyMnVyQRwlnhTZQQDBfldHm/xk7AmADlMkJnplqLdFnjkoh4KLkXKDiGqkmtUgAXV8 PcZEPKN5TrOyg0vVY3Zu651q6kX4yEw9MHpDI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references:x-google-sender-auth; b=neCyzrbNUZqIsSIjYVlsFob6nKZp1wyvGbWxC/Dygh34k02meXjFCt3zjeiDJN3pGc if0dIjFWbFKvyqEZziuLio8rsJd0XjlGZIacXKIatBFVWSfn3wytvhJzVQPpykV8ex8k W9kuImHYQQzbergZqTdBOUlkdbtxe6h+im4zw= Received: by 10.141.106.14 with SMTP id i14mr5179726rvm.152.1221519887962; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:04:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.159.2 with HTTP; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:04:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9bbcef730809151604i28533745m286e7314810d0362@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 01:04:47 +0200 From: "Ivan Voras" Sender: ivoras@gmail.com To: "Alfred Perlstein" In-Reply-To: <20080912225251.GG16977@elvis.mu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20080912165808.GE16977@elvis.mu.org> <9bbcef730809121444u34991c52m2cbc01a8ada47eb5@mail.gmail.com> <20080912225251.GG16977@elvis.mu.org> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 3701b5f21a5bba0d Cc: stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Apache-worker stuck at 100% CPU X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 23:04:50 -0000 2008/9/13 Alfred Perlstein : >> Yes, it's multithreaded apache. This did help somewhat - when I show threads in top >> I see that it's not actually stuck in umtxn - there's one thread that >> consumes the CPU and it's apparently always running (in state CPUx). >> >> PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE C TIME WCPU COMMAND >> 7212 www 103 0 30340K 7932K CPU2 2 444:23 99.02% httpd >> >> I'm currently upgrading the system to 7-STABLE, to see if it helps. It didn't help. Exactly the same symptom happened again. It looks like it happens a few days after the last system reboot. After it happens the first time, restarting Apache immediately produces one such "stuck" thread - it looks like some system state gets corrupted over time. >> How do I pick what thread to backtrace in gdb? > > i think the command is 'info threads' or 'show > threads' then i think you just type > 'thread FOO' to select the thread. Both commands don't work / don't exist. Any others? (background: apache22-worker port, no mod_php, on 7.0 and 7-STABLE suddenly gets stuck at 100% CPU; the same setup worked on 6-STABLE. I'm looking for ideas) From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 01:14:01 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E878106566B for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 01:14:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd-ml@scrapper.ca) Received: from idcmail-mo1so.shaw.ca (idcmail-mo1so.shaw.ca [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D24CC8FC21 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 01:14:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd-ml@scrapper.ca) Received: from pd4ml1so-ssvc.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.141.141]) by pd2mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca with ESMTP; 15 Sep 2008 19:14:00 -0600 X-Cloudmark-SP-Filtered: true X-Cloudmark-SP-Result: v=1.0 c=0 a=KzQIaqKIxrKvEe4sGnwA:9 a=J0klqugwZ4TupVOHDoAA:7 a=EP2xPC6RwYa4vJb8ynWGv8oWdqAA:4 a=1jPFEaVNb5QA:10 a=g1R10qNEJU8A:10 Received: from s010600121729c74c.vc.shawcable.net (HELO proven.lan) ([24.85.241.34]) by pd4ml1so-dmz.prod.shaw.ca with ESMTP; 15 Sep 2008 19:13:59 -0600 Received: from proven.lan (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by proven.lan (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id m8G1DxT9002466; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:13:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fbsd-ml@scrapper.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by proven.lan (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id m8G1Dw7M002465; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:13:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fbsd-ml@scrapper.ca) X-Authentication-Warning: proven.lan: npapke set sender to fbsd-ml@scrapper.ca using -f From: Norbert Papke Organization: Archaeological Filing To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:13:58 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.10 References: <200809141219.24943.fbsd-ml@scrapper.ca> <1221471431.49328.5.camel@buffy.york.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <1221471431.49328.5.camel@buffy.york.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200809151813.58749.fbsd-ml@scrapper.ca> Cc: Gavin Atkinson Subject: Re: Possible UDP related deadlock in 7.1-PRERELEASE X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 01:14:01 -0000 On September 15, 2008, Gavin Atkinson wrote: > On Sun, 2008-09-14 at 12:19 -0700, Norbert Papke wrote: > > Symptoms: > > > > * I can trigger this lockup reliably by starting ktorrent. After a short > > while (one to two minutes), it locks up. Other commands, e.g., netstat, > > also lock up. > > * The console generates "nfe0: watchdog timeout" error messages. > > * The system becomes unusable and must be rebooted. > > > > Attempted Diagnosis: > > > > If I break into DDB, the 'ps' output shows a number of processes that > > seem to be locked related to udp. > > > > [irq18:dc0] L *udp > > ktorrent L *udpinp > > hald L *udp > > ntpd L *udp > > > > Unfortunately, I am rapidly getting out of my depth here. I have no idea > > how to go about further analyzing this problem and would appreciate help. > > Can you add: > options WITNESS > options WITNESS_SKIPSPIN > > to your kernel, recompile and wait for the problem to happen again? > When it does, from the debugger issue "sh alllocks" and make a note of > the output? With WITNESS enabled, I now experience panics and could not follow your instructions. There is no core dump. The following gets logged to /var/log/messages: shared lock of (rw) udpinp @ /usr/src/sys/netinet/udp_usrreq.c:864 while exclusively locked from /usr/src/sys/netinet6/udp6_usrreq.c:940 panic: share->excl KDB: stack backtrace: db_trace_self_wrapper(c06fda7c,f6b96978,c052046a,c06fbb5d,c07695c0,...) at db_trace_self_wrapper+0x26 kdb_backtrace(c06fbb5d,c07695c0,c06febd1,f6b96984,f6b96984,...) at kdb_backtrace+0x29 panic(c06febd1,c070c409,3ac,c0709eee,360,...) at panic+0xaa witness_checkorder(ccd5209c,1,c0709eee,360,8,...) at witness_checkorder+0x17c _rw_rlock(ccd5209c,c0709eee,360,c07780e0,cd4652c8,...) at _rw_rlock+0x2a udp_send(d3942000,0,c580f400,c68faa00,0,...) at udp_send+0x197 udp6_send(d3942000,0,c580f400,c68faa00,0,...) at udp6_send+0x140 sosend_generic(d3942000,c68faa00,f6b96be8,0,0,...) at sosend_generic+0x50d sosend(d3942000,c68faa00,f6b96be8,0,0,...) at sosend+0x3f kern_sendit(cd465230,f,f6b96c64,0,0,...) at kern_sendit+0x106 sendit(0,871b9fe,0,c68faa00,1c,...) at sendit+0x182 sendto(cd465230,f6b96cfc,18,cd465230,c072bab8,...) at sendto+0x4f syscall(f6b96d38) at syscall+0x293 Note that I do not use IPv6, none of my network interfaces is configured for it. Also, since I enabled WITNESS, I get the following logged during system startup: Enabling pf. lock order reversal: 1st 0xc09af92c pf task mtx (pf task mtx) @ /usr/src/sys/modules/pf/../../contri b/pf/net/pf_ioctl.c:1394 2nd 0xc07b4d68 ifnet (ifnet) @ /usr/src/sys/net/if.c:1558 KDB: stack backtrace: db_trace_self_wrapper(c06fda7c,f4914a60,c0552c75,c06fed11,c07b4d68,...) at db_tr ace_self_wrapper+0x26 kdb_backtrace(c06fed11,c07b4d68,c0703ca2,c0703ca2,c0703c73,...) at kdb_backtrace +0x29 witness_checkorder(c07b4d68,9,c0703c73,616,572,...) at witness_checkorder+0x5e5 _mtx_lock_flags(c07b4d68,0,c0703c73,616,c0104414,...) at _mtx_lock_flags+0x34 ifunit(c6ef5c20,0,c09adfb5,572,c0703a71,...) at ifunit+0x2f pfioctl(c566ce00,c0104414,c6ef5c20,3,c60c38c0,...) at pfioctl+0x2b43 devfs_ioctl_f(c588bb94,c0104414,c6ef5c20,c54bb900,c60c38c0,...) at devfs_ioctl_f +0xe6 kern_ioctl(c60c38c0,3,c0104414,c6ef5c20,1000000,...) at kern_ioctl+0x243 ioctl(c60c38c0,f4914cfc,c,c0718d59,c072b350,...) at ioctl+0x134 syscall(f4914d38) at syscall+0x293 Xint0x80_syscall() at Xint0x80_syscall+0x20 --- syscall (54, FreeBSD ELF32, ioctl), eip = 0x281ab6f3, esp = 0xbfbfde3c, ebp = 0xbfbfde68 --- pf enabled I tried to unload 'pf' to see if it was the culprit. However, even without pf loaded, I experience the panic. Is there anything else I can try to provide better insight into what might be going on? Cheers, -- Norbert. From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 02:39:53 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20FEA106566C for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 02:39:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joji@eskimo.com) Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (ultra5.eskimo.com [204.122.16.68]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDC5B8FC16 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 02:39:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joji@eskimo.com) Received: from eskimo.com (eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.14.3/8.14.0) with ESMTP id m8G2PFSd020623 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:25:15 -0700 Received: (from joji@localhost) by eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id TAA13640 for freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:25:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:25:15 -0700 From: Joseph Olatt To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080915192515.A13327@eskimo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i Subject: unsupported NVIDIA SATA controller X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 02:39:53 -0000 Hello, I have the following SATA controller card on my system that appears to be unsupported by FreeBSD 7-STABLE. Does anybody know if this card is supported or will be supported in the near future? none13@pci0:0:14:0: class=0x010485 card=0x01371025 chip=0x07f810de rev=0xa2 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Nvidia Corp' class = mass storage subclass = RAID I have a SATA hard disk and DVD drive connedted to this controller that is not detected as a result. I have Ubuntu loaded on the SATA disk. In an attempt to see if I could get FreeBSD 7-STABLE to work, I made the following changes to the source. But it didn't seem to work. /*** Begin change #1 ***/ [/usr/src/sys/dev/ata] joji@snow> diff -u ata-pci.h ata-pci.h.orig --- ata-pci.h 2008-09-15 20:40:30.000000000 -0500 +++ ata-pci.h.orig 2008-09-15 20:37:36.000000000 -0500 @@ -242,7 +242,6 @@ #define ATA_NFORCE_MCP65 0x044810de #define ATA_NFORCE_MCP67 0x056010de #define ATA_NFORCE_MCP73 0x056c10de -#define ATA_NFORCE_MCP73_S1 0x07f810de #define ATA_NFORCE_MCP77 0x075910de #define ATA_PROMISE_ID 0x105a /*** End change #1 ***/ /*** Begin change #2 ***/ [/usr/src/sys/dev/ata] joji@snow> diff -u ata-chipset.c ata-chipset.c.orig --- ata-chipset.c 2008-09-15 20:47:55.000000000 -0500 +++ ata-chipset.c.orig 2008-09-15 20:40:43.000000000 -0500 @@ -3051,7 +3051,6 @@ { ATA_NFORCE_MCP65, 0, AMDNVIDIA, NVIDIA, ATA_UDMA6, "nForce MCP65" }, { ATA_NFORCE_MCP67, 0, AMDNVIDIA, NVIDIA, ATA_UDMA6, "nForce MCP67" }, { ATA_NFORCE_MCP73, 0, AMDNVIDIA, NVIDIA, ATA_UDMA6, "nForce MCP73" }, - { ATA_NFORCE_MCP73_S1, 0, 0, NV4|NVQ, ATA_SA300, "nForce MCP73" }, { ATA_NFORCE_MCP77, 0, AMDNVIDIA, NVIDIA, ATA_UDMA6, "nForce MCP77" }, { 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0}} ; /*** End change #2 ***/ After making the above changes, I rebuilt the kernel and got the card a driver assigned to it. But my DVD drive nor the SATA hard disk was detected. I must admit that I did not quite understand the changes that I made. It was just an attempt. Any insight or help will be greatly appreciated. atapci1@pci0:0:14:0: class=0x010485 card=0x01371025 chip=0x07f810de rev=0xa2 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Nvidia Corp' class = mass storage subclass = RAID /*** Begin dmesg ***/ Copyright (c) 1992-2008 The FreeBSD Project. Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD is a registered trademark of The FreeBSD Foundation. FreeBSD 7.1-PRERELEASE #4: Mon Sep 15 20:55:34 CDT 2008 joji@snow:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/SNOW Timecounter "i8254" frequency 1193182 Hz quality 0 CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2160 @ 1.80GHz (1799.96-MHz K8-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x6fd Stepping = 13 Features=0xbfebfbff Features2=0xe39d AMD Features=0x20100800 AMD Features2=0x1 Cores per package: 2 usable memory = 793821184 (757 MB) avail memory = 764108800 (728 MB) ACPI APIC Table: <012908 APIC1443> FreeBSD/SMP: Multiprocessor System Detected: 2 CPUs cpu0 (BSP): APIC ID: 0 cpu1 (AP): APIC ID: 1 ioapic0 irqs 0-23 on motherboard kbd1 at kbdmux0 acpi0: on motherboard acpi0: [ITHREAD] acpi0: Power Button (fixed) acpi0: reservation of fed45000, febfb000 (3) failed acpi0: reservation of fec00000, 1000 (3) failed acpi0: reservation of 0, a0000 (3) failed acpi0: reservation of 100000, 3ff00000 (3) failed Timecounter "ACPI-fast" frequency 3579545 Hz quality 1000 acpi_timer0: <32-bit timer at 3.579545MHz> port 0x4008-0x400b on acpi0 pcib0: port 0xcf8-0xcff on acpi0 pci0: on pcib0 pci0: at device 0.1 (no driver attached) pci0: at device 1.0 (no driver attached) pci0: at device 1.1 (no driver attached) pci0: at device 1.2 (no driver attached) pci0: at device 1.3 (no driver attached) pci0: at device 1.4 (no driver attached) pci0: at device 1.5 (no driver attached) pci0: at device 1.6 (no driver attached) pci0: at device 2.0 (no driver attached) isab0: port 0x4f00-0x4fff at device 3.0 on pci0 isa0: on isab0 pci0: at device 3.1 (no driver attached) pci0: at device 3.2 (no driver attached) pci0: at device 3.3 (no driver attached) pci0: at device 3.4 (no driver attached) ohci0: mem 0xfea7f000-0xfea7ffff irq 22 at device 4.0 on pci0 ohci0: [GIANT-LOCKED] ohci0: [ITHREAD] usb0: OHCI version 1.0, legacy support usb0: on ohci0 usb0: USB revision 1.0 uhub0: on usb0 uhub0: 8 ports with 8 removable, self powered ehci0: mem 0xfea7ec00-0xfea7ecff irq 23 at device 4.1 on pci0 ehci0: [GIANT-LOCKED] ehci0: [ITHREAD] usb1: EHCI version 1.0 usb1: companion controller, 10 ports each: usb0 usb1: on ehci0 usb1: USB revision 2.0 uhub1: on usb1 uhub1: 8 ports with 8 removable, self powered atapci0: port 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6,0x170-0x177,0x376,0xffa0-0xffaf at device 8.0 on pci0 ata0: on atapci0 ata0: [ITHREAD] ata1: on atapci0 ata1: [ITHREAD] pcm0: mem 0xfea78000-0xfea7bfff irq 20 at device 9.0 on pci0 pcm0: [ITHREAD] pcib1: at device 10.0 on pci0 pci1: on pcib1 wb0: port 0xec00-0xec7f mem 0xfebffc00-0xfebffc7f irq 16 at device 5.0 on pci1 miibus0: on wb0 amphy0: PHY 1 on miibus0 amphy0: 10baseT, 10baseT-FDX, 100baseTX, 100baseTX-FDX, auto wb0: WARNING: using obsoleted if_watchdog interface wb0: Ethernet address: 00:80:48:d7:53:ac wb0: [ITHREAD] fwohci0: port 0xe880-0xe8ff mem 0xfebff000-0xfebff7ff irq 17 at device 7.0 on pci1 fwohci0: [FILTER] fwohci0: OHCI version 1.0 (ROM=1) fwohci0: No. of Isochronous channels is 4. fwohci0: EUI64 00:10:dc:00:01:54:98:34 fwohci0: Phy 1394a available S400, 2 ports. fwohci0: Link S400, max_rec 512 bytes. fwohci0: max_rec 512 -> 2048 firewire0: on fwohci0 fwe0: on firewire0 if_fwe0: Fake Ethernet address: 02:10:dc:54:98:34 fwe0: Ethernet address: 02:10:dc:54:98:34 fwip0: on firewire0 fwip0: Firewire address: 00:10:dc:00:01:54:98:34 @ 0xfffe00000000, S400, maxrec 2048 sbp0: on firewire0 dcons_crom0: on firewire0 dcons_crom0: bus_addr 0x2e470000 fwohci0: Initiate bus reset fwohci0: BUS reset fwohci0: node_id=0xc800ffc0, gen=1, CYCLEMASTER mode pcib2: at device 11.0 on pci0 pci2: on pcib2 pcib3: at device 12.0 on pci0 pci3: on pcib3 pcib4: at device 13.0 on pci0 pci4: on pcib4 atapci1: port 0xd480-0xd487,0xd400-0xd403,0xd080-0xd087,0xd000-0xd003,0xcc00-0xcc0f mem 0xfea7c000-0xfea7dfff irq 21 at device 14.0 on pci0 atapci1: [ITHREAD] ata2: on atapci1 ata2: [ITHREAD] ata3: on atapci1 ata3: [ITHREAD] nfe0: port 0xc880-0xc887 mem 0xfea73000-0xfea73fff,0xfea7e800-0xfea7e8ff,0xfea7e400-0xfea7e40f irq 22 at device 15.0 on pci0 miibus1: on nfe0 rgephy0: PHY 1 on miibus1 rgephy0: 10baseT, 10baseT-FDX, 100baseTX, 100baseTX-FDX, 1000baseT, 1000baseT-FDX, auto nfe0: Ethernet address: 00:1d:92:89:12:da nfe0: [FILTER] nfe0: [FILTER] nfe0: [FILTER] nfe0: [FILTER] nfe0: [FILTER] nfe0: [FILTER] nfe0: [FILTER] nfe0: [FILTER] vgapci0: mem 0xfd000000-0xfdffffff,0xd0000000-0xdfffffff,0xfc000000-0xfcffffff irq 23 at device 16.0 on pci0 acpi_hpet0: iomem 0xfed00000-0xfed003ff on acpi0 Timecounter "HPET" frequency 25000000 Hz quality 900 cpu0: on acpi0 est0: failed to enable SpeedStep p4tcc0: on cpu0 cpu1: on acpi0 est1: failed to enable SpeedStep p4tcc1: on cpu1 acpi_button0: on acpi0 acpi_tz0: on acpi0 sio0: configured irq 4 not in bitmap of probed irqs 0 sio0: port may not be enabled sio0: configured irq 4 not in bitmap of probed irqs 0 sio0: port may not be enabled sio0: <16550A-compatible COM port> port 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on acpi0 sio0: type 16550A sio0: [FILTER] sio1: configured irq 3 not in bitmap of probed irqs 0 sio1: port may not be enabled sio1: configured irq 3 not in bitmap of probed irqs 0 sio1: port may not be enabled sio1: <16550A-compatible COM port> port 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on acpi0 sio1: type 16550A sio1: [FILTER] atkbdc0: port 0x60,0x64 irq 1 on acpi0 atkbd0: irq 1 on atkbdc0 kbd0 at atkbd0 atkbd0: [GIANT-LOCKED] atkbd0: [ITHREAD] psm0: irq 12 on atkbdc0 psm0: [GIANT-LOCKED] psm0: [ITHREAD] psm0: model NetMouse/NetScroll Optical, device ID 0 orm0: at iomem 0xce000-0xcf7ff on isa0 ppc0: cannot reserve I/O port range sc0: at flags 0x100 on isa0 sc0: VGA <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x300> vga0: at port 0x3c0-0x3df iomem 0xa0000-0xbffff on isa0 umass0: on uhub0 Timecounters tick every 1.000 msec firewire0: 1 nodes, maxhop <= 0, cable IRM = 0 (me) firewire0: bus manager 0 (me) ad0: 305245MB at ata0-master UDMA100 pcm0: pcm0: SMP: AP CPU #1 Launched! da0 at umass-sim0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0 da0: Removable Direct Access SCSI-0 device da0: 1.000MB/s transfers da0: Attempt to query device size failed: NOT READY, Medium not present da1 at umass-sim0 bus 0 target 0 lun 1 da1: Removable Direct Access SCSI-0 device da1: 1.000MB/s transfers da1: Attempt to query device size failed: NOT READY, Medium not present da2 at umass-sim0 bus 0 target 0 lun 2 da2: Removable Direct Access SCSI-0 device da2: 1.000MB/s transfers da2: Attempt to query device size failed: NOT READY, Medium not present da3 at umass-sim0 bus 0 target 0 lun 3 da3: Removable Direct Access SCSI-0 device da3: 1.000MB/s transfers da3: Attempt to query device size failed: NOT READY, Medium not present Trying to mount root from ufs:/dev/ad0s1a /*** End dmesg ***/ From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 02:45:55 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDB841065682 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 02:45:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bright@elvis.mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB8AC8FC1F for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 02:45:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bright@elvis.mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id 27ECC1A3C38; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:27:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:27:38 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Ivan Voras Message-ID: <20080916022738.GJ36572@elvis.mu.org> References: <20080912165808.GE16977@elvis.mu.org> <9bbcef730809121444u34991c52m2cbc01a8ada47eb5@mail.gmail.com> <20080912225251.GG16977@elvis.mu.org> <9bbcef730809151604i28533745m286e7314810d0362@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <9bbcef730809151604i28533745m286e7314810d0362@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Apache-worker stuck at 100% CPU X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 02:45:55 -0000 * Ivan Voras [080915 16:05] wrote: > 2008/9/13 Alfred Perlstein : > > >> Yes, it's multithreaded apache. This did help somewhat - when I show threads in top > >> I see that it's not actually stuck in umtxn - there's one thread that > >> consumes the CPU and it's apparently always running (in state CPUx). > >> > >> PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE C TIME WCPU COMMAND > >> 7212 www 103 0 30340K 7932K CPU2 2 444:23 99.02% httpd > >> > >> I'm currently upgrading the system to 7-STABLE, to see if it helps. > > It didn't help. Exactly the same symptom happened again. It looks like > it happens a few days after the last system reboot. After it happens > the first time, restarting Apache immediately produces one such > "stuck" thread - it looks like some system state gets corrupted over > time. > > >> How do I pick what thread to backtrace in gdb? > > > > i think the command is 'info threads' or 'show > > threads' then i think you just type > > 'thread FOO' to select the thread. > > Both commands don't work / don't exist. Any others? > > (background: apache22-worker port, no mod_php, on 7.0 and 7-STABLE > suddenly gets stuck at 100% CPU; the same setup worked on 6-STABLE. > I'm looking for ideas) I'm sorry, I really can't help at this point other than to look through the documents myself to figure out how to do a backtrace/select threads. Give it a shot, and let us know and we can go further. Apologies, -Alfred From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 06:02:15 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E5C3106566C for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:02:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gphoto6@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gx0-f17.google.com (mail-gx0-f17.google.com [209.85.217.17]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41CC58FC1D for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:02:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gphoto6@gmail.com) Received: by gxk10 with SMTP id 10so24825266gxk.19 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 23:02:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=f/5WkKTBUY0WlWw8dAxvnByMlc0lwsFaPCi744nX0j0=; b=Jp4kmCGpvK5NrYfcnKGSnxcZEEugC0HX2nfjY6gST8NhsZ7HwncLA8siXdBcFSLHG+ 2pkL8kgn0PO0y/bv1FVfp5lGlBA8GUiwsHzobS5UTI3p+8pIZPfCWY9sS3YCubaIC/0q yg0XpdBlRUUscA5i3XwKMz9AOPl4RZT6fW84k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=DLPmE84U+8M2z4X2aMOxK/7gWPNZ7DSHKP++DHgg5oefo4A6kPc/KRuVBspj6g+RjH dCLahj4n568eIPplg6CW8JZpUCaaYqhBaB00N7xmKtvYNcLPSNlmGS5ImanJvCbYaoxm SHEUN0I8FoeZBuzYRTO6H1gyXVEeDi4g2bn28= Received: by 10.151.141.16 with SMTP id t16mr897915ybn.4.1221544934262; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 23:02:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.41.19 with HTTP; Mon, 15 Sep 2008 23:02:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1f51039c0809152302s2e6c1471n89588b058069f73d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:02:14 +0800 From: "Tim Chen" To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200809151606.23933.jhb@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1f51039c0809150857l50b6be8eu848e21189a4175d6@mail.gmail.com> <200809151606.23933.jhb@freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: Suddenly frozen fcntl/stat call on NFS over TCP with MTU 9000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:02:15 -0000 On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 4:06 AM, John Baldwin wrote: > On Monday 15 September 2008 11:57:02 am Tim Chen wrote: > > Currently I was running a mail server using a netapp filer as backend > > storage. > > >From time to time, the whole system get stuck and lasted for 3-5 > minutes. > > But > > after that, everything recovers normally. During the "stuck" moment, > using > > ps > > auxw shows 200-300 of mail delivery agent(MDA) processes staying in "D" > > status. > > The command df certainly does not reponse either. > > Can you use 'ps axl' to determine the wait mesg ("wchan") of the stuck > threads > when they hang? If it is "lockf", then make sure you have an up-to-date > RELENG_6 kernel as there was a recent fix for a "lockf" hang. > Thanks for your suggestion. After trying to 'ps axl', it seems all the "D status" process were in nfs,nfsreq,nfsreq. Can you give some hint how to keep delving the problem? My system is RELENG_7 within one week, I always make world to keep my system up to date. > > Alternatively, if things are stuck in "nfsreq", it may be useful to use > tcpdump to look at the NFS requests your client is making. nfsstat can > also > be useful as you can see which counters are increasing during a hang. > > When system was stuck, counters of nfsstat grows slowly. It seems only read, write, create, remove in RPC counts were increased. As to tcpdump, since I am not familiar with that, I will try to read some doc and make some tests. Thanks very much for your kindly help. Hope the problem can be solved soon. Sincerely, Tim Chen From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 06:47:24 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0D8B106566C for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:47:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andrew@modulus.org) Received: from email.octopus.com.au (host-122-100-2-232.octopus.com.au [122.100.2.232]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AD418FC21 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:47:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andrew@modulus.org) Received: by email.octopus.com.au (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 9DFA817D91; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:31:24 +1000 (EST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on email.octopus.com.au X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=failed version=3.2.3 Received: from [10.20.30.102] (60.218.233.220.exetel.com.au [220.233.218.60]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: admin@email.octopus.com.au) by email.octopus.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AD5D17D96; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:31:20 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <48CF5282.10608@modulus.org> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:30:26 +1000 From: Andrew Snow User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jo Rhett References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <593618A3-56DA-4891-A4A0-690E9A9C5B32@netconsonance.com> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> In-Reply-To: <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:47:24 -0000 Jo Rhett wrote: > Because frankly we're going to be forced to run our own internal > release management process instead. > I guess this is not surprising, as this appears to be what every other > business using significant amounts of freebsd in production are doing > today. I'm afraid you've hit the nail on the head. Stable, Current, these words mean nothing to me anymore, I'm using 8-CURRENT to get stable ZFS with the ata driver from 7 (because 8's doesn't work), and the old BTX loader because the new one locks up on all my newer hardware. Then there's the bag of patches I am now carrying around from release to release, some for bug fixes and some for feature enhancements, none of which are in the base system for whatever reason. I think FreeBSD is getting in a difficult position now because there's so much cool new stuff being shoe-horned in, but without the necessary volume of contributors to back it up with testing and bug fixes. There's some truth to what you say, in that I would love to be directly contributing to the FreeBSD effort but instead I feel I'm running around putting out little fires all the time. Plus this era of 4 to 8 CPU cores has meant I am seeing bugs that are difficult to pin down and only occur under production load. - Andrew From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 06:56:57 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F80C1065674 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:56:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (lefty.soaustin.net [66.135.55.46]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BD7F8FC1B for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:56:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 280F38C098; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 01:56:57 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 01:56:57 -0500 To: Andrew Snow Message-ID: <20080916065657.GB12295@soaustin.net> References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <593618A3-56DA-4891-A4A0-690E9A9C5B32@netconsonance.com> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <48CF5282.10608@modulus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <48CF5282.10608@modulus.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: linimon@lonesome.com (Mark Linimon) Cc: Jo Rhett , freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:56:57 -0000 On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 04:30:26PM +1000, Andrew Snow wrote: > I think FreeBSD is getting in a difficult position now because there's > so much cool new stuff being shoe-horned in, but without the necessary > volume of contributors to back it up with testing and bug fixes. We're interested in suggestions about how to get more people involved with testing and bug fixes. There's certainly no lack of demand for the features -- all the way from running on inexpensive wireless routers all the way up to 'enterprise- grade' distributed storage solutions. (These are real examples from various mailing lists.) So, in your opinion, what's the way to reconcile all these demands (features + stability + long-term support of release branches) with a group that is 95%-plus volunteer effort? mcl From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 07:39:17 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D6E61065675 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 07:39:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (gate6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCC1B8FC16 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 07:39:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: from lack-of-gravitas.thebunker.net (gateway.ash.thebunker.net [213.129.64.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id m8G7cxuJ036711 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 16 Sep 2008 08:39:05 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.7.1 smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk m8G7cxuJ036711 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=infracaninophile.co.uk; s=200708; t=1221550746; bh=FPfmcV31qAVAQN XOhwbc2KRlEDWJzid7gNJpjxqmDzo=; h=Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version: To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Content-Type:Date:From:In-Reply-To: Message-ID:Mime-Version:References:To; z=Message-ID:=20<48CF6292.7 050909@infracaninophile.co.uk>|Date:=20Tue,=2016=20Sep=202008=2008: 38:58=20+0100|From:=20Matthew=20Seaman=20|Organization:=20Infracaninophile|User-Agent:=20Thunderbird= 202.0.0.16=20(X11/20080811)|MIME-Version:=201.0|To:=20Mark=20Linimo n=20|CC:=20Andrew=20Snow=20,=20Jo=20Rhett=20,=20=0D=0A=20freebsd-s table=20|Subject:=20Re:=20Upcoming=20Re leases=20Schedule...|References:=20<1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer .cse.buffalo.edu>=09<593618A3-56DA-4891-A4A0-690E9A9C5B32@netconson ance.com>=09=09<20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org>=09=09<47d0403c0809051319r3c82 f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com>=09=09<2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4 D@netconsonance.com>=09<48CF5282.10608@modulus.org>=20<200809160656 57.GB12295@soaustin.net>|In-Reply-To:=20<20080916065657.GB12295@soa ustin.net>|X-Enigmail-Version:=200.95.6|X-Enigmail-Version:=200.95. 6|Content-Type:=20text/plain=3B=20charset=3DUTF-8=3B=20format=3Dflo wed|Content-Transfer-Encoding:=207bit; b=OqLDm+Cm5owU0pgBwrvn35qpm5 yiqUtsmvDVDNH33diGC73ej1NawK0AA8BGGxavmhhM62fLldsxCqzduGG4rEOrSCSSW 5/ERwRF5JmvCYnTDNCYYaN/ogxI8WtpeRVZVoMav5L1iZgdGmGkMgxsX7Nh+MS3+tWW Rablia/Osw8= Message-ID: <48CF6292.7050909@infracaninophile.co.uk> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 08:38:58 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman Organization: Infracaninophile User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (X11/20080811) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Linimon References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <593618A3-56DA-4891-A4A0-690E9A9C5B32@netconsonance.com> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <48CF5282.10608@modulus.org> <20080916065657.GB12295@soaustin.net> In-Reply-To: <20080916065657.GB12295@soaustin.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.6 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk [81.187.76.162]); Tue, 16 Sep 2008 08:39:06 +0100 (BST) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.3/8256/Tue Sep 16 05:47:01 2008 on happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VERIFIED,SPF_FAIL autolearn=no version=3.2.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk Cc: Jo Rhett , freebsd-stable , Andrew Snow Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 07:39:17 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160 Mark Linimon wrote: | On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 04:30:26PM +1000, Andrew Snow wrote: |> I think FreeBSD is getting in a difficult position now because there's |> so much cool new stuff being shoe-horned in, but without the necessary |> volume of contributors to back it up with testing and bug fixes. | | We're interested in suggestions about how to get more people involved | with testing and bug fixes. | | There's certainly no lack of demand for the features -- all the way from | running on inexpensive wireless routers all the way up to 'enterprise- | grade' distributed storage solutions. (These are real examples from | various mailing lists.) | | So, in your opinion, what's the way to reconcile all these demands | (features + stability + long-term support of release branches) with | a group that is 95%-plus volunteer effort? I think that the FreeBSD project as presently constituted does pretty well on the 'features + stability' side of things -- although it seems the glut of new features coming in at the moment probably is enough for the time being and we need a period of consolidation to restore the balance on the stability side of things. On 'long term support of release branches' -- a volunteer project is always going to struggle to provide this without some form of income to support the necessary hardware and personnel resources needed. Or in other words, if FreeBSD users want the same sort of support structure as they can get from a commercial vendor, it's going to take a commercial vendor to supply it. FreeBSD Corporation anyone? Cheers, Matthew - -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. Flat 3 ~ 7 Priory Courtyard PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate ~ Kent, CT11 9PW, UK -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREDAAYFAkjPYpIACgkQ3jDkPpsZ+VbD6gCgwjuVsjPXx9sOc+MzI5yhiG4J XzMAn1wVNZJamCpJejL7WZsjwZ/C8bIF =QnBp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 08:51:48 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC78F1065671 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 08:51:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andrew@modulus.org) Received: from email.octopus.com.au (host-122-100-2-232.octopus.com.au [122.100.2.232]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7796C8FC08 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 08:51:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andrew@modulus.org) Received: by email.octopus.com.au (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 067C717D91; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:52:29 +1000 (EST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on email.octopus.com.au X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=failed version=3.2.3 Received: from [10.20.30.102] (60.218.233.220.exetel.com.au [220.233.218.60]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: admin@email.octopus.com.au) by email.octopus.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACF5817267; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:52:25 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <48CF7394.8040707@modulus.org> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:51:32 +1000 From: Andrew Snow User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-stable References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <593618A3-56DA-4891-A4A0-690E9A9C5B32@netconsonance.com> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <48CF5282.10608@modulus.org> <20080916065657.GB12295@soaustin.net> In-Reply-To: <20080916065657.GB12295@soaustin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Mark Linimon Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 08:51:48 -0000 Mark Linimon wrote: > So, in your opinion, what's the way to reconcile all these demands > (features + stability + long-term support of release branches) with > a group that is 95%-plus volunteer effort? Its important to me that people keep using FreeBSD. Numbers are important. To that end I'm happy for developers to keep working hardest on the parts of FreeBSD they find most rewarding. Something's got to give and you can't stop it by creating more beaurocracy and red tape. Another thing I think is important is for new hardware to be perpetually sent to those who can implement drivers and create patches. I don't feel the FreeBSD foundation is doing enough in that regard. Not talking about big ticket items like server farms, just new motherboards every time a new CPU or chipset is released. - Andrew From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 09:12:02 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5429110656B6 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:12:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivoras@gmail.com) Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com (rv-out-0506.google.com [209.85.198.235]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 240AA8FC38 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:12:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivoras@gmail.com) Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id b25so3395270rvf.43 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 02:12:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=zyOipxLHinL8bH0ZT8bZ3EQlmZRkqdDuDsbT6tjzRSU=; b=hdkNIIYCwKa6i33KQjzT8fu4reD/qmT31FikuJ56Kk+tUIGxx36rH5SeV7VGkkgXQ7 lR2DazTAjZx4pO9bhPnNqpwNRwvxWDVb9+nXThrYx6UysJdJAybzHgaIZt5/l35Q2/iQ FgvzOUHWl++b1QbQsrB9GYiGLCR8qJOTm9G4g= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references:x-google-sender-auth; b=t4uUbly1i5CL7XzGvVAiN4AszPa/3V4l6BoxT5QAElThmCq+XXRJXbRJhwyfLL0ftB aq5l/pQ4qFYlhH1QDMF2z3NcWlPk+fdvUhfk04FtH3m9K9hwgETRc38HQMMxPgtsFKWC 6Y75xyADdP6+BAMzexQwVX/BJoJkoed1Bd2zg= Received: by 10.141.28.4 with SMTP id f4mr5490618rvj.66.1221556321244; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 02:12:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.159.2 with HTTP; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 02:12:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9bbcef730809160212m72fffc7k93d0c92ace2b7c19@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:12:01 +0200 From: "Ivan Voras" Sender: ivoras@gmail.com To: "Alfred Perlstein" In-Reply-To: <20080916022738.GJ36572@elvis.mu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20080912165808.GE16977@elvis.mu.org> <9bbcef730809121444u34991c52m2cbc01a8ada47eb5@mail.gmail.com> <20080912225251.GG16977@elvis.mu.org> <9bbcef730809151604i28533745m286e7314810d0362@mail.gmail.com> <20080916022738.GJ36572@elvis.mu.org> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 73c0ddf0d882732d Cc: stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Apache-worker stuck at 100% CPU X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:12:02 -0000 2008/9/16 Alfred Perlstein : > * Ivan Voras [080915 16:05] wrote: >> >> How do I pick what thread to backtrace in gdb? >> > >> > i think the command is 'info threads' or 'show >> > threads' then i think you just type >> > 'thread FOO' to select the thread. >> >> Both commands don't work / don't exist. Any others? >> >> (background: apache22-worker port, no mod_php, on 7.0 and 7-STABLE >> suddenly gets stuck at 100% CPU; the same setup worked on 6-STABLE. >> I'm looking for ideas) > > I'm sorry, I really can't help at this point other than to look > through the documents myself to figure out how to do a backtrace/select > threads. > > Give it a shot, and let us know and we can go further. Sorry, I should have been more verbose - "info threads" should work but it doesn't - I can attach and get threads from a "regular" multithreaded process, but when yesterday when I attached to the stuck process, I couldn't get the list of threads. I'll try again the next time it gets stuck and try to provide more information. From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 09:48:18 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 838C5106564A for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:48:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from QMTA02.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta02.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.24]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29B488FC12 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:48:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from OMTA06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.51]) by QMTA02.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id FMVj1a00616LCl052MoAU8; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:48:10 +0000 Received: from koitsu.dyndns.org ([67.180.253.227]) by OMTA06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id FMoF1a0054v8bD73SMoGmG; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:48:17 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=l1b6aXiS2cYA:10 a=QycZ5dHgAAAA:8 a=oE823lfg99ev2bxDO-AA:9 a=ljWqRel0E-0wmgq7xMoA:7 a=ZYWXUFHutmwp5yFi8m0YcFcjG2gA:4 a=EoioJ0NPDVgA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 Received: by icarus.home.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 35C0E17B822; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 02:48:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 02:48:15 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Andrew Snow Message-ID: <20080916094815.GA60168@icarus.home.lan> References: <593618A3-56DA-4891-A4A0-690E9A9C5B32@netconsonance.com> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <48CF5282.10608@modulus.org> <20080916065657.GB12295@soaustin.net> <48CF7394.8040707@modulus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <48CF7394.8040707@modulus.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: Mark Linimon , freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:48:18 -0000 On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 06:51:32PM +1000, Andrew Snow wrote: > Mark Linimon wrote: >> So, in your opinion, what's the way to reconcile all these demands >> (features + stability + long-term support of release branches) with >> a group that is 95%-plus volunteer effort? > > Its important to me that people keep using FreeBSD. Numbers are > important. To that end I'm happy for developers to keep working hardest > on the parts of FreeBSD they find most rewarding. Something's got to > give and you can't stop it by creating more beaurocracy and red tape. > > Another thing I think is important is for new hardware to be perpetually > sent to those who can implement drivers and create patches. I don't > feel the FreeBSD foundation is doing enough in that regard. Not talking > about big ticket items like server farms, just new motherboards every > time a new CPU or chipset is released. I agree with the last point. However, a couple counter-points: 1) I believe this is what freebsd-donations@ is for (though I feel the Foundation as a whole could be helping more with this), 2) Based on my own experience: I've offered to purchase new hardware to send developers (free of charge), assuming I can get my hands on whatever hardware it is they need. I'm willing to spend a few hundred dollars to get whatever it is they want, so financially I'm flexible. Here's my experience: What I'm finding out is that it's not the hardware developers need -- it's the time required to sit down and test everything and write the code. No matter what we do, we cannot create more time (or in some cases, more incentives) for developers. What we ultimately need is more talent to make things better. There's a number of people I see doing really good work, at least with regards to RELENG_7 (I do not follow HEAD/CURRENT commits). From what I understand, all these folks are incredibly pressed for time. I'll name names, just because they deserve mention: rwatson, pjd, phk, jhb, alfred, kmacy, kris, kib, yongari, scottl, Andrey Elsukov, and Max Laier. I apologise if I've upset anyone by this -- I'm not naming names to "rank" people against others (it's a volunteer project after all), I'm just listing off people who I've seen do really good work over the past year or so, with regards to the few devices or kernel pieces I actively follow. For something as gargantuan/massive as an entire operating system and all of its device support, there's a very small number of central people doing regular work. Compare this to Linux, where you've got: a) 6-7 times the amount of kernel-people, b) Commercial interest and support from companies (that means developers are more likely to get documentation and development/test hardware from the vendor themselves), c) A significantly larger user-base for testing. I have never agreed with Eric Raymond's "bazaar" concept, where the attitude is "more eyes = overall better". The problem in our case is not lack of eyes, it's lack of hands and brains. We have a lot of smart people who aren't working on kernel-stuff because they lack the experience/knowledge of how to get involved, where to start, and overall understanding of the code. I'm one of those people, for example. I do not understanding threading (the concept yes, the implementation no), nor any "core" part of the kernel. The most common rebuttal to this argument is "Well, there's and ", but then when you try to follow either of them, are later told "yeah, is wrong, and is completely out of date, everything has changed". It's demoralising. I can sit down and within about 15-20 minutes have a minimum understanding of part of a C userland program. Comparatively, I have looked at kernel drivers for hours without any understanding of what numerous kernel ABI/API functions do, why they're being done, why they're being done when they are. I'm not even talking about device-specific semantics (e.g. what does this IC register do, etc.). I'm talking about the surrounding pieces. I *have* hacked on the em(4) driver, but all the surrounding pieces made me say "hmm, do not touch". Any time I see the words VFS, BIO, mtx, or uma, I back off. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 11:13:09 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A84661065679 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:13:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gavin@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail-gw1.york.ac.uk (mail-gw1.york.ac.uk [144.32.128.246]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AB038FC13 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:13:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gavin@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail-gw7.york.ac.uk (mail-gw7.york.ac.uk [144.32.129.30]) by mail-gw1.york.ac.uk (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id m8GBCmA9008208; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:12:48 +0100 (BST) Received: from buffy-128.york.ac.uk ([144.32.128.160] helo=buffy.york.ac.uk) by mail-gw7.york.ac.uk with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1KfYUC-0000uo-Hy; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:12:48 +0100 Received: from buffy.york.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by buffy.york.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8GBCl2k014306; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:12:47 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from gavin@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from ga9@localhost) by buffy.york.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m8GBClvk014305; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:12:47 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from gavin@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: buffy.york.ac.uk: ga9 set sender to gavin@FreeBSD.org using -f From: Gavin Atkinson To: Joseph Olatt In-Reply-To: <20080915192515.A13327@eskimo.com> References: <20080915192515.A13327@eskimo.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-ifz0LPhL8N8gdYfPAjDQ" Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:12:47 +0100 Message-Id: <1221563567.13651.21.camel@buffy.york.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.2 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port X-York-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-York-MailScanner-From: gavin@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: unsupported NVIDIA SATA controller X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:13:09 -0000 --=-ifz0LPhL8N8gdYfPAjDQ Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 2008-09-15 at 19:25 -0700, Joseph Olatt wrote: > Hello, > > I have the following SATA controller card on my system that appears to > be unsupported by FreeBSD 7-STABLE. Does anybody know if this card is > supported or will be supported in the near future? > > /*** Begin change #2 ***/ > [/usr/src/sys/dev/ata] > joji@snow> diff -u ata-chipset.c ata-chipset.c.orig > --- ata-chipset.c 2008-09-15 20:47:55.000000000 -0500 > +++ ata-chipset.c.orig 2008-09-15 20:40:43.000000000 -0500 > @@ -3051,7 +3051,6 @@ > { ATA_NFORCE_MCP65, 0, AMDNVIDIA, NVIDIA, ATA_UDMA6, "nForce MCP65" }, > { ATA_NFORCE_MCP67, 0, AMDNVIDIA, NVIDIA, ATA_UDMA6, "nForce MCP67" }, > { ATA_NFORCE_MCP73, 0, AMDNVIDIA, NVIDIA, ATA_UDMA6, "nForce MCP73" }, > - { ATA_NFORCE_MCP73_S1, 0, 0, NV4|NVQ, ATA_SA300, "nForce MCP73" }, > { ATA_NFORCE_MCP77, 0, AMDNVIDIA, NVIDIA, ATA_UDMA6, "nForce MCP77" }, > { 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0}} ; > /*** End change #2 ***/ Before you do anything, can you get a verbose DMESG and stick it online somewhere? This may well help identify why the above isn't working. Secondly, you could try changing the line you've added to be: { ATA_NFORCE_MCP73_S1, 0, AMDNVIDIA, NVIDIA, ATA_SA300, "nForce MCP73" }, although to be honest, I'm not expecting that to fix things for you. If it doesn't, then it looks like this chip may need special support. Because the chip identifies itself as a RAID controller and not as a standard IDE controller, the generic code does not attach to it either. You could override this behaviour by removing your patch and using the attached patch. If nothing else, that may well get you working at UDMA33, which is the most the "generic" ATA controller support can do. Again, if this fails, stick a verbose dmesg online somewhere. The real solution, of proper support for the chip, may not be possible until either documentation is available for it, or another OS (Linux/*BSD/OpenSolaris) support it. Out of interest, what motherboard is this on? Gavin --=-ifz0LPhL8N8gdYfPAjDQ Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=nv73-2.diff Content-Type: text/x-patch; name=nv73-2.diff; charset=ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SW5kZXg6IHNyYy9zeXMvZGV2L2F0YS9hdGEtcGNpLmMNCj09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NClJDUyBmaWxlOiAv aG9tZS9uY3ZzL3NyYy9zeXMvZGV2L2F0YS9hdGEtcGNpLmMsdg0KcmV0cmlldmluZyByZXZpc2lv biAxLjEyMS4yLjINCmRpZmYgLXUgLXIxLjEyMS4yLjIgYXRhLXBjaS5jDQotLS0gc3JjL3N5cy9k ZXYvYXRhL2F0YS1wY2kuYwkyMSBOb3YgMjAwNyAyMToxNTowMCAtMDAwMAkxLjEyMS4yLjINCisr KyBzcmMvc3lzL2Rldi9hdGEvYXRhLXBjaS5jCTE2IFNlcCAyMDA4IDExOjA4OjMwIC0wMDAwDQpA QCAtMTc5LDcgKzE3OSw4IEBADQogICAgIH0NCiANCiAgICAgLyogdW5rbm93biBjaGlwc2V0LCB0 cnkgZ2VuZXJpYyBETUEgaWYgaXQgc2VlbXMgcG9zc2libGUgKi8NCi0gICAgaWYgKHBjaV9nZXRf c3ViY2xhc3MoZGV2KSA9PSBQQ0lTX1NUT1JBR0VfSURFKSB7DQorICAgIGlmICgocGNpX2dldF9z dWJjbGFzcyhkZXYpID09IFBDSVNfU1RPUkFHRV9JREUpIHx8DQorCShwY2lfZ2V0X3N1YmNsYXNz KGRldikgPT0gUENJU19TVE9SQUdFX1JBSUQpKSB7DQogCWlmICghYXRhX2dlbmVyaWNfaWRlbnQo ZGV2KSkNCiAJICAgIHJldHVybiBBVEFfUFJPQkVfT0s7DQogICAgIH0NCg== --=-ifz0LPhL8N8gdYfPAjDQ-- From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 16:41:43 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02FE9106566B for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:41:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from josh.carroll@gmail.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.224]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4EE08FC35 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:41:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from josh.carroll@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id c8so458793wra.27 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:41:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:reply-to :to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition; bh=6CiW5Gx4RMfhr/dRIwP+7F7PsvX11PjF1Wb6vP68FOU=; b=WCVg7eW4QNGXZZkcb0dK8dN7uUllM4/3fXLVuPVqyotfqenxH82mvvzMKcbxhtxCj1 3EVErDqlrvj/ciykBpvKH78Qlo6nczxSRQC5e8t+xMx+zRwkzUx3MdAeCmeqrX+KMHw4 7udLqqA/jAXAXZSM3EDmj/Q0bycHRzeb6JTzk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=jcvpp6QF6LKmnwfIEhf1FlCvNmW0YC/AcpQozlEPwWX+0OYspnpi72ceaZNzwGjtSn +DX9R/oJyEM4RAQesT0GxJzSB1JaQIfkQ3LLxkHVwXsV4w8CXcrlnE8r0dd9xW9bM4VS 06SC5w77jk3xP9sUlzMzCTvWMSnbo+AtcnRaM= Received: by 10.151.42.18 with SMTP id u18mr1827928ybj.57.1221583301943; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:41:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.11.21 with HTTP; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:41:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8cb6106e0809160941m57b9aa9ehc21b5f92a396082b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:41:41 -0400 From: "Josh Carroll" To: "FreeBSD Stable" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: recent MFC of soreceive_dgram breaks kernels without INET6 option X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: josh.carroll@gmail.com List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:41:43 -0000 Hello, I just csup'd this morning and now I cannot build a kernel that does not include INET6. I can send my KERNCONF, but it is sufficient to create a kernel config with: include GENERIC nooption INET6 Here's the error during kernel compilation of a kernel config without "options INET6" in the kernel config: /usr/src/sys/netinet/udp_usrreq.c: In function 'udp_inpcb_init': /usr/src/sys/netinet/udp_usrreq.c:170: error: 'udp6_usrreqs' undeclared (first use in this function) /usr/src/sys/netinet/udp_usrreq.c:170: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once /usr/src/sys/netinet/udp_usrreq.c:170: error: for each function it appears in.) It looks like the MFC for the new soreceive_dgram stuff is the culprit. Can this can be fixed to not require IPv6? I have no desire to include it in my kernel, but if that will be the requirement going forward, perhaps a note in UPDATING is in order? Thanks, Josh From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 16:42:03 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2F6D106567C; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:42:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bright@elvis.mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F8A98FC18; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:42:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bright@elvis.mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id 475371A3C36; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:42:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:42:03 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Ivan Voras Message-ID: <20080916164203.GL36572@elvis.mu.org> References: <20080912165808.GE16977@elvis.mu.org> <9bbcef730809121444u34991c52m2cbc01a8ada47eb5@mail.gmail.com> <20080912225251.GG16977@elvis.mu.org> <9bbcef730809151604i28533745m286e7314810d0362@mail.gmail.com> <20080916022738.GJ36572@elvis.mu.org> <9bbcef730809160212m72fffc7k93d0c92ace2b7c19@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <9bbcef730809160212m72fffc7k93d0c92ace2b7c19@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Apache-worker stuck at 100% CPU X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:42:03 -0000 * Ivan Voras [080916 02:12] wrote: > 2008/9/16 Alfred Perlstein : > > * Ivan Voras [080915 16:05] wrote: > > >> >> How do I pick what thread to backtrace in gdb? > >> > > >> > i think the command is 'info threads' or 'show > >> > threads' then i think you just type > >> > 'thread FOO' to select the thread. > >> > >> Both commands don't work / don't exist. Any others? > >> > >> (background: apache22-worker port, no mod_php, on 7.0 and 7-STABLE > >> suddenly gets stuck at 100% CPU; the same setup worked on 6-STABLE. > >> I'm looking for ideas) > > > > I'm sorry, I really can't help at this point other than to look > > through the documents myself to figure out how to do a backtrace/select > > threads. > > > > Give it a shot, and let us know and we can go further. > > Sorry, I should have been more verbose - "info threads" should work > but it doesn't - I can attach and get threads from a "regular" > multithreaded process, but when yesterday when I attached to the stuck > process, I couldn't get the list of threads. I'll try again the next > time it gets stuck and try to provide more information. If it happens again, you could try sending it a SIGABRT or SEGV and then trying to diagnose the core dump. Or try using gcore to generate a coredump and debug that. -- - Alfred Perlstein From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 16:45:18 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05A0B1065678 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:45:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivoras@gmail.com) Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com (rv-out-0506.google.com [209.85.198.234]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA3808FC1D for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:45:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivoras@gmail.com) Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id b25so3606400rvf.43 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:45:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=aYkv+8BwB3qrWqfAZ2LkggfzjHGl7BoFYvpmdGngMd8=; b=BGJDyUw30035BlxGs6YIEd1uXM3p7NLVc3wo3i1OnA0bLWsLYs+5JO5Kt10oGqpV2m ik/no5DD9tNHgFQU7XrqzcUZSHHc2vT8Ap7ZhEeNPHGzzEG4sd0Xaso2kIn4LBq40NEO FrIl1C0F0cydRYt3+MOs40eGASb+aQupWMLIA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references:x-google-sender-auth; b=swdAAZ2kxEZr6S9kDNbJ+McCkP2BMlkScVvocTkubm9NcccpbkSU+4e1VxJzsGTd8x RTfEVPSePGnrPK8koK1eNSRhBBfB8vxFQ83pCG6CTGM8sUaVsv9lHOLKamiAZHzYKpFH 18Z46gH1TA3GKlH7gRxqfTLN35RNBBXpTDcHg= Received: by 10.141.164.13 with SMTP id r13mr5831901rvo.150.1221583517325; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.159.2 with HTTP; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9bbcef730809160945y8f472bfw60af0d22149d9376@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:45:17 +0200 From: "Ivan Voras" Sender: ivoras@gmail.com To: "Alfred Perlstein" In-Reply-To: <20080916164203.GL36572@elvis.mu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20080912165808.GE16977@elvis.mu.org> <9bbcef730809121444u34991c52m2cbc01a8ada47eb5@mail.gmail.com> <20080912225251.GG16977@elvis.mu.org> <9bbcef730809151604i28533745m286e7314810d0362@mail.gmail.com> <20080916022738.GJ36572@elvis.mu.org> <9bbcef730809160212m72fffc7k93d0c92ace2b7c19@mail.gmail.com> <20080916164203.GL36572@elvis.mu.org> X-Google-Sender-Auth: f22fd81409ab0b66 Cc: stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-threads@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Apache-worker stuck at 100% CPU X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:45:18 -0000 2008/9/16 Alfred Perlstein : > * Ivan Voras [080916 02:12] wrote: >> Sorry, I should have been more verbose - "info threads" should work >> but it doesn't - I can attach and get threads from a "regular" >> multithreaded process, but when yesterday when I attached to the stuck >> process, I couldn't get the list of threads. I'll try again the next >> time it gets stuck and try to provide more information. > > If it happens again, you could try sending it a SIGABRT or SEGV > and then trying to diagnose the core dump. > > Or try using gcore to generate a coredump and debug that. It happens approximately every two days; I've rebuild apache with debugging symbols so it will be easier to dig around this time. From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 17:23:07 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50FE9106564A for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:23:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from clint@0lsen.net) Received: from belle.0lsen.net (belle.0lsen.net [75.150.32.89]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A7448FC1B for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:23:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from clint@0lsen.net) Received: by belle.0lsen.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 2EC5B7962D; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:04:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:04:52 -0700 From: Clint Olsen To: stable@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080916170452.GB4861@0lsen.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Organization: NULlsen Network X-Disclaimer: Mutt Bites! X-0lsen-net-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner-ID: 2EC5B7962D.AA68E X-0lsen-net-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-0lsen-net-MailScanner-From: clint@0lsen.net X-Spam-Status: No Cc: Subject: Help debugging DMA_READ errors X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:23:07 -0000 Ok, I've had some flakiness with my 6.3-STABLE (Sun May 25 21:55:57 PDT 2008) box. I assume that these errors are indicative of a system-level problem rather than a single disk: Event 1 ------- Sep 14 05:12:54 belle kernel: ad0: TIMEOUT - READ_DMA retrying (1 retry left) LBA=216477719 Result: Hard reset required Event 2 ------- Sep 16 02:11:09 belle kernel: ad4: WARNING - READ_DMA UDMA ICRC error (retrying request) LBA=172088735 Sep 16 02:13:08 belle kernel: acd0: WARNING - READ_TOC taskqueue timeout - completing request directly Sep 16 02:13:09 belle kernel: acd0: timeout waiting for ATAPI ready Sep 16 02:13:09 belle kernel: acd0: error issuing ATA PACKET command Sep 16 02:13:09 belle kernel: acd0: WARNING - READ_TOC freeing taskqueue zombie request Sep 16 02:13:09 belle kernel: acd0: timeout waiting for ATAPI ready Sep 16 02:13:09 belle kernel: acd0: error issuing ATA PACKET command ...last two repeating until reset... Result: Hard reset required Disk configuration: ad0: 114473MB at ata0-master UDMA100 ad4: 114473MB at ata2-master SATA150 ad6: 476940MB at ata3-master SATA150 I'm using one of those eSATA converter brackets in the back of the machine for ad6. I'm guessing this doesn't have to do with this problem since that disk wasn't mentioned. Any advice you can offer will be much appreciated. Thanks, -Clint -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 17:59:01 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 757CC106566C for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:59:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from QMTA10.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta10.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.17]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 235248FC0A for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:59:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from OMTA14.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.60]) by QMTA10.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id FPVa1a0061HzFnQ5AVyzd4; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:58:59 +0000 Received: from koitsu.dyndns.org ([67.180.253.227]) by OMTA14.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id FVyy1a00Z4v8bD73aVyzht; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:58:59 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=QycZ5dHgAAAA:8 a=87x36UTPhJl8_RHRPRYA:9 a=FyeCD9GqiQ6LyMcH27sA:7 a=rB_3eSVa9l5bwDWEXDOw-AjDWlkA:4 a=EoioJ0NPDVgA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 Received: by icarus.home.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4764B17B81A; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:58:58 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Clint Olsen Message-ID: <20080916175858.GA70396@icarus.home.lan> References: <20080916170452.GB4861@0lsen.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080916170452.GB4861@0lsen.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Help debugging DMA_READ errors X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:59:01 -0000 On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 10:04:52AM -0700, Clint Olsen wrote: > Ok, I've had some flakiness with my 6.3-STABLE (Sun May 25 21:55:57 PDT > 2008) box. I assume that these errors are indicative of a system-level > problem rather than a single disk: Not necessarily, but FreeBSD makes debugging this kind of situation fairly difficult. It takes time and a lot of patience. If the problem is easily reproducible, that can significantly help. > Event 1 > ------- > Sep 14 05:12:54 belle kernel: ad0: TIMEOUT - READ_DMA retrying (1 retry left) LBA=216477719 > > Result: Hard reset required > > Event 2 > ------- > Sep 16 02:11:09 belle kernel: ad4: WARNING - READ_DMA UDMA ICRC error (retrying request) LBA=172088735 > Sep 16 02:13:08 belle kernel: acd0: WARNING - READ_TOC taskqueue timeout - completing request directly > Sep 16 02:13:09 belle kernel: acd0: timeout waiting for ATAPI ready > Sep 16 02:13:09 belle kernel: acd0: error issuing ATA PACKET command > Sep 16 02:13:09 belle kernel: acd0: WARNING - READ_TOC freeing taskqueue zombie request > Sep 16 02:13:09 belle kernel: acd0: timeout waiting for ATAPI ready > Sep 16 02:13:09 belle kernel: acd0: error issuing ATA PACKET command > ...last two repeating until reset... > > Result: Hard reset required The ad4 error looks very similar to your ad0 timeout earlier, just on a different disk. acd0 is a CD/DVD drive. ad4 is a hard disk. What exactly were you doing with the system at the time these errors appeared? Were you using the CD/DVD drive? Was there a disc in the drive that was mounted? If none of these things, I'm baffled as to what would read acd0 and cause what you see here. I have a feeling all of these might be driven off of a single southbridge controller, which could be going bad, or "wedged" in some way. You've now seen errors on ad0 (PATA device), ad4 (SATA device), and acd0 (unknown, but probably a PATA device). > Disk configuration: > > ad0: 114473MB at ata0-master UDMA100 > ad4: 114473MB at ata2-master SATA150 > ad6: 476940MB at ata3-master SATA150 Can you please provide full details of what these disks are connected to? I'd like to see dmesg output for ata0, ata2, and ata3, as well as the atapci devices those ataX devices are attached to, ditto with vmstat -i output. Are there any other errors in your logs around that time (e.g. watchdog timeouts of any kind on network devices, etc.?) Additionally, it would be very useful if you could install ports/sysutils/smartmontools and provide the following output: # smartctl -a /dev/ad0 # smartctl -a /dev/ad4 This will help in determining if either of the disks saw the DMA errors reported, and help determine if the disks are going bad, or if your machine somehow lost power briefly, or imply that you might have a voltage/PSU problem of some kind. > I'm using one of those eSATA converter brackets in the back of the machine > for ad6. I'm guessing this doesn't have to do with this problem since that > disk wasn't mentioned. I can't say for certain. The above information will help. > Any advice you can offer will be much appreciated. The best advice I can give you is the above, combined with the below Wiki document I've made, time permitting. It is in no way complete, and it may simply induce more questions than answers. http://wiki.freebsd.org/JeremyChadwick/ATA_issues_and_troubleshooting The bottom line is that, if the problems you're seeing are the "same thing" others are seeing, then you are not alone. As I said initially, finding the source of these problems is difficult, and they are often "unique" to each individual's machine. For some, replacing cables, the entire motherboard, disk controller, or just the PSU helped; for others, the problem disappeared on its own; in other cases, the problem was so severe that they ended up switching to Linux. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 18:19:17 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E02C106564A for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:19:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from clint@0lsen.net) Received: from belle.0lsen.net (belle.0lsen.net [75.150.32.89]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F66F8FC1B for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:19:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from clint@0lsen.net) Received: by belle.0lsen.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id C4F387962D; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:19:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:19:03 -0700 From: Clint Olsen To: stable@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080916181903.GC7540@0lsen.net> References: <20080916170452.GB4861@0lsen.net> <20080916175858.GA70396@icarus.home.lan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="bg08WKrSYDhXBjb5" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080916175858.GA70396@icarus.home.lan> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Organization: NULlsen Network X-Disclaimer: Mutt Bites! X-0lsen-net-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner-ID: C4F387962D.3357D X-0lsen-net-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-0lsen-net-MailScanner-From: clint@0lsen.net X-Spam-Status: No Cc: Subject: Re: Help debugging DMA_READ errors X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:19:17 -0000 --bg08WKrSYDhXBjb5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hi Jeremy: Thanks for your detailed response. Here are the answers I have thus far: On Sep 16, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > acd0 is a CD/DVD drive. ad4 is a hard disk. What exactly were you > doing with the system at the time these errors appeared? Were you using > the CD/DVD drive? Was there a disc in the drive that was mounted? > If none of these things, I'm baffled as to what would read acd0 and > cause what you see here. I was not at the system at the time. I never have had a disk in the drive nor is /cdrom mounted currently. I have dump backups that run in the middle of the night on the various filesystems. > Can you please provide full details of what these disks are connected > to? I'd like to see dmesg output for ata0, ata2, and ata3, as well as > the atapci devices those ataX devices are attached to, ditto with > vmstat -i output. Are there any other errors in your logs around > that time (e.g. watchdog timeouts of any kind on network devices, etc.?) # dmesg | grep -i ata atapci0: port 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6,0x170-0x177,0x376,0xfc00-0xfc0f at device 31.1 on pci0 ata0: on atapci0 ata1: on atapci0 atapci1: port 0xeff0-0xeff7,0xefe4-0xefe7,0xefa8-0xefaf,0xefe0-0xefe3,0xef60-0xef6f irq 18 at device 31.2 on pci0 ata2: on atapci1 ata3: on atapci1 I skipped the disks, of course. > Additionally, it would be very useful if you could install > ports/sysutils/smartmontools and provide the following output: > > # smartctl -a /dev/ad0 > # smartctl -a /dev/ad4 See attached. > http://wiki.freebsd.org/JeremyChadwick/ATA_issues_and_troubleshooting > > The bottom line is that, if the problems you're seeing are the "same > thing" others are seeing, then you are not alone. As I said initially, > finding the source of these problems is difficult, and they are often > "unique" to each individual's machine. For some, replacing cables, the > entire motherboard, disk controller, or just the PSU helped; for others, > the problem disappeared on its own; in other cases, the problem was > so severe that they ended up switching to Linux. I'll take a look at this page. Thanks, -Clint -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --bg08WKrSYDhXBjb5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=ad0 smartctl version 5.38 [i386-portbld-freebsd6.3] Copyright (C) 2002-8 Bruce Allen Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/ === START OF INFORMATION SECTION === Model Family: Western Digital Caviar SE family Device Model: WDC WD1200JB-32EVA0 Serial Number: WD-WMAEL1302890 Firmware Version: 15.05R15 User Capacity: 120,034,123,776 bytes Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show] ATA Version is: 6 ATA Standard is: Exact ATA specification draft version not indicated Local Time is: Tue Sep 16 11:11:04 2008 PDT SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability. SMART support is: Enabled === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION === SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED General SMART Values: Offline data collection status: (0x82) Offline data collection activity was completed without error. Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled. Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test routine completed without error or no self-test has ever been run. Total time to complete Offline data collection: (3801) seconds. Offline data collection capabilities: (0x79) SMART execute Offline immediate. No Auto Offline data collection support. Suspend Offline collection upon new command. Offline surface scan supported. Self-test supported. Conveyance Self-test supported. Selective Self-test supported. SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering power-saving mode. Supports SMART auto save timer. Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported. No General Purpose Logging support. Short self-test routine recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes. Extended self-test routine recommended polling time: ( 53) minutes. Conveyance self-test routine recommended polling time: ( 5) minutes. SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16 Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds: ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000b 200 200 051 Pre-fail Always - 0 3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0007 162 148 021 Pre-fail Always - 2433 4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 100 100 040 Old_age Always - 79 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 199 199 140 Pre-fail Always - 7 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000b 100 253 051 Pre-fail Always - 0 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 042 042 000 Old_age Always - 42740 10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0013 100 253 051 Pre-fail Always - 0 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0013 100 253 051 Pre-fail Always - 0 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 79 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 111 253 000 Old_age Always - 39 196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032 193 193 000 Old_age Always - 7 197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0012 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 0 198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0012 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 0 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x000a 200 253 000 Old_age Always - 0 200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x0009 200 155 051 Pre-fail Offline - 0 SMART Error Log Version: 1 No Errors Logged SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1 No self-tests have been logged. [To run self-tests, use: smartctl -t] SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1 SPAN MIN_LBA MAX_LBA CURRENT_TEST_STATUS 1 0 0 Not_testing 2 0 0 Not_testing 3 0 0 Not_testing 4 0 0 Not_testing 5 0 0 Not_testing Selective self-test flags (0x0): After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk. If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay. --bg08WKrSYDhXBjb5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=ad4 smartctl version 5.38 [i386-portbld-freebsd6.3] Copyright (C) 2002-8 Bruce Allen Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/ === START OF INFORMATION SECTION === Model Family: Western Digital Caviar SE Serial ATA family Device Model: WDC WD1200JD-00GBB0 Serial Number: WD-WMAET1326141 Firmware Version: 02.05D02 User Capacity: 120,034,123,776 bytes Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show] ATA Version is: 6 ATA Standard is: Exact ATA specification draft version not indicated Local Time is: Tue Sep 16 11:11:17 2008 PDT SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability. SMART support is: Enabled === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION === SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED General SMART Values: Offline data collection status: (0x82) Offline data collection activity was completed without error. Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled. Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test routine completed without error or no self-test has ever been run. Total time to complete Offline data collection: (3801) seconds. Offline data collection capabilities: (0x79) SMART execute Offline immediate. No Auto Offline data collection support. Suspend Offline collection upon new command. Offline surface scan supported. Self-test supported. Conveyance Self-test supported. Selective Self-test supported. SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering power-saving mode. Supports SMART auto save timer. Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported. No General Purpose Logging support. Short self-test routine recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes. Extended self-test routine recommended polling time: ( 53) minutes. Conveyance self-test routine recommended polling time: ( 5) minutes. SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16 Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds: ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000b 200 200 051 Pre-fail Always - 0 3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0007 160 139 021 Pre-fail Always - 2508 4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 100 100 040 Old_age Always - 55 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 200 200 140 Pre-fail Always - 0 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000b 200 200 051 Pre-fail Always - 0 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 051 051 000 Old_age Always - 36471 10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0013 100 253 051 Pre-fail Always - 0 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0013 100 253 051 Pre-fail Always - 0 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 55 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 104 253 000 Old_age Always - 46 196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 0 197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0012 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 0 198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0012 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 0 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x000a 200 253 000 Old_age Always - 2 200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x0009 200 155 051 Pre-fail Offline - 0 SMART Error Log Version: 1 No Errors Logged SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1 No self-tests have been logged. [To run self-tests, use: smartctl -t] SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1 SPAN MIN_LBA MAX_LBA CURRENT_TEST_STATUS 1 0 0 Not_testing 2 0 0 Not_testing 3 0 0 Not_testing 4 0 0 Not_testing 5 0 0 Not_testing Selective self-test flags (0x0): After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk. If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay. --bg08WKrSYDhXBjb5-- From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 18:20:44 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 310301065671 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:20:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joji@eskimo.com) Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (ultra5.eskimo.com [204.122.16.68]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D12F8FC16 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:20:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joji@eskimo.com) Received: from eskimo.com (eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.14.3/8.14.0) with ESMTP id m8GIKedr014811; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:20:40 -0700 Received: (from joji@localhost) by eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id LAA28364; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:20:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:20:40 -0700 From: Joseph Olatt To: Gavin Atkinson Message-ID: <20080916112040.A27758@eskimo.com> References: <20080915192515.A13327@eskimo.com> <1221563567.13651.21.camel@buffy.york.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <1221563567.13651.21.camel@buffy.york.ac.uk>; from gavin@FreeBSD.org on Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 12:12:47PM +0100 Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: unsupported NVIDIA SATA controller X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:20:44 -0000 On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 12:12:47PM +0100, Gavin Atkinson wrote: > On Mon, 2008-09-15 at 19:25 -0700, Joseph Olatt wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I have the following SATA controller card on my system that appears to > > be unsupported by FreeBSD 7-STABLE. Does anybody know if this card is > > supported or will be supported in the near future? > > > > /*** Begin change #2 ***/ > > [/usr/src/sys/dev/ata] > > joji@snow> diff -u ata-chipset.c ata-chipset.c.orig > > --- ata-chipset.c 2008-09-15 20:47:55.000000000 -0500 > > +++ ata-chipset.c.orig 2008-09-15 20:40:43.000000000 -0500 > > @@ -3051,7 +3051,6 @@ > > { ATA_NFORCE_MCP65, 0, AMDNVIDIA, NVIDIA, ATA_UDMA6, "nForce MCP65" }, > > { ATA_NFORCE_MCP67, 0, AMDNVIDIA, NVIDIA, ATA_UDMA6, "nForce MCP67" }, > > { ATA_NFORCE_MCP73, 0, AMDNVIDIA, NVIDIA, ATA_UDMA6, "nForce MCP73" }, > > - { ATA_NFORCE_MCP73_S1, 0, 0, NV4|NVQ, ATA_SA300, "nForce MCP73" }, > > { ATA_NFORCE_MCP77, 0, AMDNVIDIA, NVIDIA, ATA_UDMA6, "nForce MCP77" }, > > { 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0}} ; > > /*** End change #2 ***/ > > Before you do anything, can you get a verbose DMESG and stick it online > somewhere? This may well help identify why the above isn't working. http://www.eskimo.com/~joji/nvidia_sata/snow_dmesg-v.txt > Secondly, you could try changing the line you've added to be: > > { ATA_NFORCE_MCP73_S1, 0, AMDNVIDIA, NVIDIA, ATA_SA300, "nForce MCP73" }, > > although to be honest, I'm not expecting that to fix things for you. If > it doesn't, then it looks like this chip may need special support. Made the change suggested above. Building a new kernel. Will provide update after installation and boot-up of new kernel. > Because the chip identifies itself as a RAID controller and not as a > standard IDE controller, the generic code does not attach to it either. > You could override this behaviour by removing your patch and using the > attached patch. If nothing else, that may well get you working at > UDMA33, which is the most the "generic" ATA controller support can do. > Again, if this fails, stick a verbose dmesg online somewhere. > > The real solution, of proper support for the chip, may not be possible > until either documentation is available for it, or another OS > (Linux/*BSD/OpenSolaris) support it. I do have Ubuntu installed on a disk connected to the above mentioned SATA controller. The dmesg from Ubuntu is at: http://www.eskimo.com/~joji/nvidia_sata/dmesg_ubuntu.txt The output of "lspci -vv" from Ubuntu is at: http://www.eskimo.com/~joji/nvidia_sata/lspci-vv.txt I am not clear if Ubuntu is recognizing the SATA hard disk as ATA or SATA. I suspect it is being recognized as a ATA disk because of the following lines from Ubuntu dmesg: [ 23.044251] ata1: SATA max UDMA/133 abar m8192@0xfea7c000 port 0xfea7c100 irq 508 [ 23.044253] ata2: SATA max UDMA/133 abar m8192@0xfea7c000 port 0xfea7c180 irq 508 [ 23.044256] ata3: SATA max UDMA/133 abar m8192@0xfea7c000 port 0xfea7c200 irq 508 [ 23.044258] ata4: SATA max UDMA/133 abar m8192@0xfea7c000 port 0xfea7c280 irq 508 [ 23.682254] ata1: SATA link up 3.0 Gbps (SStatus 123 SControl 300) [ 23.682854] ata1.00: ATA-7: ST3250410AS, 3.AAF, max UDMA/133 But the following line confusing: [ 23.682254] ata1: SATA link up 3.0 Gbps (SStatus 123 SControl 300) > Out of interest, what motherboard is this on? > > Gavin Is there a way to find out the motherboard details without opening up the box? If nothing else works, I will back out all my changes and install your patch and see how it goes. Thanks very much for helping. regards, joseph From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 18:45:43 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B73411065687 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:45:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from smtp-vbr4.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr4.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.24]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 279098FC79 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:45:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (freebie.xs4all.nl [82.95.250.254]) by smtp-vbr4.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m8GIX66p019152; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:33:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8GIWbq5047409; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:32:37 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: (from wb@localhost) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m8GIWW2e047408; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:32:32 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:32:31 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: Clint Olsen Message-ID: <20080916183231.GG41919@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <20080916170452.GB4861@0lsen.net> <20080916175858.GA70396@icarus.home.lan> <20080916181903.GC7540@0lsen.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080916181903.GC7540@0lsen.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Help debugging DMA_READ errors X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:45:43 -0000 Quoting Clint Olsen, who wrote on Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 11:19:03AM -0700 .. > Hi Jeremy: > > Thanks for your detailed response. Here are the answers I have thus far: > > On Sep 16, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > > acd0 is a CD/DVD drive. ad4 is a hard disk. What exactly were you > > doing with the system at the time these errors appeared? Were you using > > the CD/DVD drive? Was there a disc in the drive that was mounted? > > If none of these things, I'm baffled as to what would read acd0 and > > cause what you see here. > > I was not at the system at the time. I never have had a disk in the drive > nor is /cdrom mounted currently. I have dump backups that run in the > middle of the night on the various filesystems. Taking a long shot: you do not have cooling issues of the drives maybe? Wilko > > > Can you please provide full details of what these disks are connected > > to? I'd like to see dmesg output for ata0, ata2, and ata3, as well as > > the atapci devices those ataX devices are attached to, ditto with > > vmstat -i output. Are there any other errors in your logs around > > that time (e.g. watchdog timeouts of any kind on network devices, etc.?) > > # dmesg | grep -i ata > atapci0: port 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6,0x170-0x177,0x376,0xfc00-0xfc0f at device 31.1 on pci0 > ata0: on atapci0 > ata1: on atapci0 > atapci1: port 0xeff0-0xeff7,0xefe4-0xefe7,0xefa8-0xefaf,0xefe0-0xefe3,0xef60-0xef6f irq 18 at device 31.2 on pci0 > ata2: on atapci1 > ata3: on atapci1 > > I skipped the disks, of course. > > > Additionally, it would be very useful if you could install > > ports/sysutils/smartmontools and provide the following output: > > > > # smartctl -a /dev/ad0 > > # smartctl -a /dev/ad4 > > See attached. > > > http://wiki.freebsd.org/JeremyChadwick/ATA_issues_and_troubleshooting > > > > The bottom line is that, if the problems you're seeing are the "same > > thing" others are seeing, then you are not alone. As I said initially, > > finding the source of these problems is difficult, and they are often > > "unique" to each individual's machine. For some, replacing cables, the > > entire motherboard, disk controller, or just the PSU helped; for others, > > the problem disappeared on its own; in other cases, the problem was > > so severe that they ended up switching to Linux. > > I'll take a look at this page. > > Thanks, > > -Clint > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > smartctl version 5.38 [i386-portbld-freebsd6.3] Copyright (C) 2002-8 Bruce Allen > Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/ > > === START OF INFORMATION SECTION === > Model Family: Western Digital Caviar SE family > Device Model: WDC WD1200JB-32EVA0 > Serial Number: WD-WMAEL1302890 > Firmware Version: 15.05R15 > User Capacity: 120,034,123,776 bytes > Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show] > ATA Version is: 6 > ATA Standard is: Exact ATA specification draft version not indicated > Local Time is: Tue Sep 16 11:11:04 2008 PDT > SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability. > SMART support is: Enabled > > === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION === > SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED > > General SMART Values: > Offline data collection status: (0x82) Offline data collection activity > was completed without error. > Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled. > Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test routine completed > without error or no self-test has ever > been run. > Total time to complete Offline > data collection: (3801) seconds. > Offline data collection > capabilities: (0x79) SMART execute Offline immediate. > No Auto Offline data collection support. > Suspend Offline collection upon new > command. > Offline surface scan supported. > Self-test supported. > Conveyance Self-test supported. > Selective Self-test supported. > SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering > power-saving mode. > Supports SMART auto save timer. > Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported. > No General Purpose Logging support. > Short self-test routine > recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes. > Extended self-test routine > recommended polling time: ( 53) minutes. > Conveyance self-test routine > recommended polling time: ( 5) minutes. > > SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16 > Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds: > ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE > 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000b 200 200 051 Pre-fail Always - 0 > 3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0007 162 148 021 Pre-fail Always - 2433 > 4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 100 100 040 Old_age Always - 79 > 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 199 199 140 Pre-fail Always - 7 > 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000b 100 253 051 Pre-fail Always - 0 > 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 042 042 000 Old_age Always - 42740 > 10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0013 100 253 051 Pre-fail Always - 0 > 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0013 100 253 051 Pre-fail Always - 0 > 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 79 > 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 111 253 000 Old_age Always - 39 > 196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032 193 193 000 Old_age Always - 7 > 197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0012 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 0 > 198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0012 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 0 > 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x000a 200 253 000 Old_age Always - 0 > 200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x0009 200 155 051 Pre-fail Offline - 0 > > SMART Error Log Version: 1 > No Errors Logged > > SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1 > No self-tests have been logged. [To run self-tests, use: smartctl -t] > > > SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1 > SPAN MIN_LBA MAX_LBA CURRENT_TEST_STATUS > 1 0 0 Not_testing > 2 0 0 Not_testing > 3 0 0 Not_testing > 4 0 0 Not_testing > 5 0 0 Not_testing > Selective self-test flags (0x0): > After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk. > If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay. > > smartctl version 5.38 [i386-portbld-freebsd6.3] Copyright (C) 2002-8 Bruce Allen > Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/ > > === START OF INFORMATION SECTION === > Model Family: Western Digital Caviar SE Serial ATA family > Device Model: WDC WD1200JD-00GBB0 > Serial Number: WD-WMAET1326141 > Firmware Version: 02.05D02 > User Capacity: 120,034,123,776 bytes > Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show] > ATA Version is: 6 > ATA Standard is: Exact ATA specification draft version not indicated > Local Time is: Tue Sep 16 11:11:17 2008 PDT > SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability. > SMART support is: Enabled > > === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION === > SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED > > General SMART Values: > Offline data collection status: (0x82) Offline data collection activity > was completed without error. > Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled. > Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test routine completed > without error or no self-test has ever > been run. > Total time to complete Offline > data collection: (3801) seconds. > Offline data collection > capabilities: (0x79) SMART execute Offline immediate. > No Auto Offline data collection support. > Suspend Offline collection upon new > command. > Offline surface scan supported. > Self-test supported. > Conveyance Self-test supported. > Selective Self-test supported. > SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering > power-saving mode. > Supports SMART auto save timer. > Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported. > No General Purpose Logging support. > Short self-test routine > recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes. > Extended self-test routine > recommended polling time: ( 53) minutes. > Conveyance self-test routine > recommended polling time: ( 5) minutes. > > SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16 > Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds: > ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE > 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000b 200 200 051 Pre-fail Always - 0 > 3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0007 160 139 021 Pre-fail Always - 2508 > 4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 100 100 040 Old_age Always - 55 > 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 200 200 140 Pre-fail Always - 0 > 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000b 200 200 051 Pre-fail Always - 0 > 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 051 051 000 Old_age Always - 36471 > 10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0013 100 253 051 Pre-fail Always - 0 > 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0013 100 253 051 Pre-fail Always - 0 > 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 55 > 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 104 253 000 Old_age Always - 46 > 196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 0 > 197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0012 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 0 > 198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0012 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 0 > 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x000a 200 253 000 Old_age Always - 2 > 200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x0009 200 155 051 Pre-fail Offline - 0 > > SMART Error Log Version: 1 > No Errors Logged > > SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1 > No self-tests have been logged. [To run self-tests, use: smartctl -t] > > > SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1 > SPAN MIN_LBA MAX_LBA CURRENT_TEST_STATUS > 1 0 0 Not_testing > 2 0 0 Not_testing > 3 0 0 Not_testing > 4 0 0 Not_testing > 5 0 0 Not_testing > Selective self-test flags (0x0): > After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk. > If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay. > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" --- End of quoted text --- From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 18:54:03 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD6BB1065677 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:54:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from QMTA07.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta07.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.64]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89BFA8FC18 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:54:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from OMTA12.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.44]) by QMTA07.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id FV3S1a00i0xGWP857Wu2w7; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:54:02 +0000 Received: from koitsu.dyndns.org ([67.180.253.227]) by OMTA12.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id FWu11a00E4v8bD73YWu1Zy; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:54:02 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=QycZ5dHgAAAA:8 a=2kerb1k98mTRpNsMqxkA:9 a=DokO15FUrb7z3tS37f8A:7 a=6Zni-OfczWDGM-gjIKkoFyUVbSwA:4 a=EoioJ0NPDVgA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 Received: by icarus.home.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 55A6717B81A; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:54:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:54:01 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Clint Olsen Message-ID: <20080916185401.GA71275@icarus.home.lan> References: <20080916170452.GB4861@0lsen.net> <20080916175858.GA70396@icarus.home.lan> <20080916181903.GC7540@0lsen.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080916181903.GC7540@0lsen.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Help debugging DMA_READ errors X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:54:03 -0000 On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 11:19:03AM -0700, Clint Olsen wrote: > On Sep 16, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > > acd0 is a CD/DVD drive. ad4 is a hard disk. What exactly were you > > doing with the system at the time these errors appeared? Were you using > > the CD/DVD drive? Was there a disc in the drive that was mounted? > > If none of these things, I'm baffled as to what would read acd0 and > > cause what you see here. > > I was not at the system at the time. I never have had a disk in the drive > nor is /cdrom mounted currently. I have dump backups that run in the > middle of the night on the various filesystems. That's very strange then. Something definitely tried to utilise acd0 at that hour of the night. What is acd0 connected to, ATA-wise? Again, I assume it's PATA, but I'd like to know the primary/secondary and master/slave organisation, since you are using a PATA disk too. > > Can you please provide full details of what these disks are connected > > to? I'd like to see dmesg output for ata0, ata2, and ata3, as well as > > the atapci devices those ataX devices are attached to, ditto with > > vmstat -i output. Are there any other errors in your logs around > > that time (e.g. watchdog timeouts of any kind on network devices, etc.?) > > # dmesg | grep -i ata > atapci0: port 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6,0x170-0x177,0x376,0xfc00-0xfc0f at device 31.1 on pci0 > ata0: on atapci0 > ata1: on atapci0 > atapci1: port 0xeff0-0xeff7,0xefe4-0xefe7,0xefa8-0xefaf,0xefe0-0xefe3,0xef60-0xef6f irq 18 at device 31.2 on pci0 > ata2: on atapci1 > ata3: on atapci1 Looks fine, although I swore ATA controllers listed their IRQs. atapci0 doesn't appear to have an IRQ associated with it (should be 14 or 15), so that's a little odd to me. vmstat -i would help here. > See attached. Okay, there are some problems with your disks, but it's going to be impossible for me to determine if the below problems caused what you saw. First, ad0: > ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE > 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 199 199 140 Pre-fail Always - 7 > 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 111 253 000 Old_age Always - 39 > 196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032 193 193 000 Old_age Always - 7 You have 7 bad sectors on ad0, and all 7 of those sectors have been successfully remapped (meaning spare sectors on the disk (there is a limited/reserved number of them) have been used). Sector reallocation on ATA and SATA disks happens transparently, meaning the OS is never told by the disk/controller what's going on behind the scenes. However, reallocation can take time -- consider the situation where a bad sector/block cannot be read or written to. The disk may attempt to re-read/write that sector/block a few times before giving up, marking it bad, and using a reallocated spare. FreeBSD will begin spitting out DMA errors after 5 full seconds of not receiving responses to ATA commands. So, if the above reallocations caused what you saw, then the reallocations took >5 seconds. Since you don't have SMART stats for your disks **before** this issue began, we're not going to be able to determine if the reallocations are what caused it. This is why some people run smartd. That said: I do not see any sign of DMA read/write errors in the SMART log. That's good. The temperature of this drive is also acceptable (39C), which is also okay. On to ad4: > 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 104 253 000 Old_age Always - 46 > 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x000a 200 253 000 Old_age Always - 2 There are two CRC errors reported here, detected during DMA. These could have resulted in data corruption on your drive; CRC errors cannot correct data, it's just a simple way of determining if what data was sent or received was intact. However, there's no sign of DMA errors in the SMART log. I'm not sure what to make of that; I really would expect there to be some. Additionally, this disk is running at 46C, which borders on the high end of warm. You may want to check cooling or general airflow around the drive. I strongly doubt temperature is the problem here though. Regarding both disks: Some statistics are "offline", which means those attributes/stats will not be updated until you run a short/long/offline SMART test. Do not let the word "offline" make you think the drive is actually taken offline -- it isn't. I would recommend two things: 1) Run "smartctl -t short" on /dev/ad0 and /dev/ad4. You can safely use the disks during this time. After a few minutes (depends on how much disk I/O is happening; the more I/O, the longer the test takes to complete), you should see an entry in the SMART self-test log saying Completed. Once you see that, you should run smartctl -a on the disk again, and see if the attributes labelled "Offline" are different than they were before. 2) Consider running smartd. I do not normally advocate this, but in your case, it may be the only way to see which attribute values are actually changing on you if/when the issue happens again. Any time a value changes, it'll be logged via syslog. You can set up smartd.conf to ignore certain attributes (e.g. temperature, since that has a tendency to fluctuate up and down a degree). If/when this happens again, you should be able to look at your logs and see what counters have changed. For example if you see something like Power_Cycle_Count or Stop_Start_Count increase, you have disks which are losing power. Welcome to the pain of debugging disk problems. :-) -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 19:34:12 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFE51106566C; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:34:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from smarthost1.sentex.ca (smarthost1.sentex.ca [64.7.153.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7891F8FC08; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:34:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from lava.sentex.ca (pyroxene.sentex.ca [199.212.134.18]) by smarthost1.sentex.ca (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8GJY9cb022666; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:34:10 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from mdt-xp.sentex.net (simeon.sentex.ca [192.168.43.27]) by lava.sentex.ca (8.13.8/8.13.3) with ESMTP id m8GJY9oe039218 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:34:09 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Message-Id: <200809161934.m8GJY9oe039218@lava.sentex.ca> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:34:07 -0400 To: Jeremy Chadwick , Clint Olsen From: Mike Tancsa In-Reply-To: <20080916185401.GA71275@icarus.home.lan> References: <20080916170452.GB4861@0lsen.net> <20080916175858.GA70396@icarus.home.lan> <20080916181903.GC7540@0lsen.net> <20080916185401.GA71275@icarus.home.lan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 64.7.153.18 Cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Help debugging DMA_READ errors X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:34:12 -0000 At 02:54 PM 9/16/2008, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: >However, there's no sign of DMA errors in the SMART log. I'm not sure >what to make of that; I really would expect there to be some. Would not bad cables (or trays) be consistent with symptoms like that ? i.e. the OS sees errors, but when we ask the drive, it says, "what errors". I am sure there are other things that could cause this, but in the past I would start with the cables and or trays. ---Mike From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 19:47:21 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B36B91065670; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:47:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (unknown [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85FB28FC35; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:47:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [65.122.17.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A6F546B35; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:47:21 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Jo Rhett In-Reply-To: <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> Message-ID: References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <593618A3-56DA-4891-A4A0-690E9A9C5B32@netconsonance.com> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> User-Agent: Alpine 1.10 (BSF 962 2008-03-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-stable , Wesley Shields , Nathan Way , Ben Kaduk Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:47:21 -0000 On Mon, 15 Sep 2008, Jo Rhett wrote: > On Sep 6, 2008, at 4:06 AM, Robert Watson wrote: >> Unfortunately, it's a little hard to tell at time-of-release whether a >> particular release will become extended life or not. This is because >> extended support status is dependent on the success of the release ... >> from earlier branch adopters. How long we keep release 6.x releases will >> depend entirely on how successful 7.x is; I think there's a reasonable >> expectation that 6.4 or 6.5 will be the last 6.x release, in which case we >> would want to grant it extended support status. But what happens depends a >> lot on how successful 7.1 is. My hopes are high, but there's nothing like >> real-world deployment to shed light on things :-). > > Robert, I'd like to point out to you that when I complained about 6.2's > accelerated EoL, I was soundly boxed around the ears and told that I should > have been paying attention to the projected EoL date when we decided to roll > out 6.2 across the business. > > I was also told that I should have been more active in the release cycle > process for 6.3, etc. > > Now you are saying that expected EoL will be determined at some random point > in the future based on gut feelings about how well a completely different > branch is doing. > > How can I reconcile these disparate points of view? How does one focus on > testing and upgrade cycle for an "appropriately supported release" when the > decision for the support cycle is completely up in the air? The FreeBSD Project, as with any other company or organization, responds to events as they occur. We try to plan ahead, and when things go better or worse than expected, we sometimes change the plans. As far as I know we've never *shortened* the expected support timeline for any branch or release, but we have on occasion lenthened them when we feel it's important to do so. I'm not sure what other answer is possible. Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 19:49:28 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 867A01065674 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:49:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from server.baldwin.cx (bigknife-pt.tunnel.tserv9.chi1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f10:75::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 060998FC21 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:49:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from localhost.corp.yahoo.com (john@localhost [IPv6:::1]) (authenticated bits=0) by server.baldwin.cx (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8GJn1qi096729; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:49:21 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:30:22 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <1f51039c0809150857l50b6be8eu848e21189a4175d6@mail.gmail.com> <200809151606.23933.jhb@freebsd.org> <1f51039c0809152302s2e6c1471n89588b058069f73d@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1f51039c0809152302s2e6c1471n89588b058069f73d@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200809161130.22736.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (server.baldwin.cx [IPv6:::1]); Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:49:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.1/8265/Tue Sep 16 15:26:49 2008 on server.baldwin.cx X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=4.2 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, DATE_IN_PAST_03_06,NO_RELAYS autolearn=ham version=3.1.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on server.baldwin.cx Cc: Tim Chen Subject: Re: Suddenly frozen fcntl/stat call on NFS over TCP with MTU 9000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:49:28 -0000 On Tuesday 16 September 2008 02:02:14 am Tim Chen wrote: > On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 4:06 AM, John Baldwin wrote: > > > On Monday 15 September 2008 11:57:02 am Tim Chen wrote: > > > Currently I was running a mail server using a netapp filer as backend > > > storage. > > > >From time to time, the whole system get stuck and lasted for 3-5 > > minutes. > > > But > > > after that, everything recovers normally. During the "stuck" moment, > > using > > > ps > > > auxw shows 200-300 of mail delivery agent(MDA) processes staying in "D" > > > status. > > > The command df certainly does not reponse either. > > > > Can you use 'ps axl' to determine the wait mesg ("wchan") of the stuck > > threads > > when they hang? If it is "lockf", then make sure you have an up-to-date > > RELENG_6 kernel as there was a recent fix for a "lockf" hang. > > > > Thanks for your suggestion. After trying to 'ps axl', it seems all the "D > status" process were in nfs,nfsreq,nfsreq. Can you give some hint how to > keep delving the problem? > > My system is RELENG_7 within one week, I always make world to keep my system > up to date. > > > > > > Alternatively, if things are stuck in "nfsreq", it may be useful to use > > tcpdump to look at the NFS requests your client is making. nfsstat can > > also > > be useful as you can see which counters are increasing during a hang. > > > > When system was stuck, counters of nfsstat grows slowly. It seems only > read, write, create, remove in RPC counts were increased. > > As to tcpdump, since I am not familiar with that, I will try to read some > doc and make some tests. > > Thanks very much for your kindly help. Hope the problem can be solved soon. Also, do the nfsstats thing I suggested. During a hang, you can do something like 'nfsstat > one ; sleep 1 ; nfsstat > two' and compare the 'one' and 'two' files to see which counters (if any) are being bumped during the hang. -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 19:56:38 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 724331065675 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:56:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (unknown [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32F088FC1C for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:56:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [65.122.17.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9BB746B35; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:56:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:56:36 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Andrew Snow In-Reply-To: <48CF7394.8040707@modulus.org> Message-ID: References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <593618A3-56DA-4891-A4A0-690E9A9C5B32@netconsonance.com> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <48CF5282.10608@modulus.org> <20080916065657.GB12295@soaustin.net> <48CF7394.8040707@modulus.org> User-Agent: Alpine 1.10 (BSF 962 2008-03-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: Mark Linimon , freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:56:38 -0000 On Tue, 16 Sep 2008, Andrew Snow wrote: > Mark Linimon wrote: >> So, in your opinion, what's the way to reconcile all these demands >> (features + stability + long-term support of release branches) with a group >> that is 95%-plus volunteer effort? > > Its important to me that people keep using FreeBSD. Numbers are important. > To that end I'm happy for developers to keep working hardest on the parts of > FreeBSD they find most rewarding. Something's got to give and you can't > stop it by creating more beaurocracy and red tape. > > Another thing I think is important is for new hardware to be perpetually > sent to those who can implement drivers and create patches. I don't feel > the FreeBSD foundation is doing enough in that regard. Not talking about > big ticket items like server farms, just new motherboards every time a new > CPU or chipset is released. The FreeBSD Foundation regular funds hardware purchases for FreeBSD developers, both in terms of individual components and larger purchases; we also play an active role in soliciting donations of larger devices. We recently received a very generous donation of a second Filer from NetApp, which has allowed us to help arrange offsite backup for the FreeBSD.org cluster as part of our general effort to improve contingency planning. As far as I know, we've never once received a request from a developer to, for example, fund the purchases of 20 motherboards of various shapes and sizes to improve test coverage. We do have a specific budget to cover exactly those sorts of requests, and the grant application form is placed fairly prominently on our web site. We've also recently announced a developer project funding programme to contract developers to work on specific projects not served adequately by volunteer or developer time, and hope to announce initial grant recipients in the next few weeks. We've just completed an initial proposal selection and I think you'll find that quite few of the proposed projects are of immediate interest to the larger user community. The Foundation, like the Project, is run largely by volunteers (an all-volunteer board, with the exception of one part-time employee who handles administrative aspects of the Foundation), and therefore experiences exactly the same time limitations as developers do. We drive some initiatives forward directly (such as our Netperf Cluster, a high-performance 10gbps network test environment made possible through a collaboration between the FreeBSD Foundation Sentex Communications, and a number of donors including Cisco, NetApp, FreeBSD Systems, Intel, Chelsio, Myricom, Google, iXSystems, IronPort Systems, and individual donors), but we rely on developers to tell us what they need so that we can fund it or seek donations from potential sponsors. Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 19:57:43 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92031106566B for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:57:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (unknown [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D0538FC18 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:57:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [65.122.17.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2339A46B5B; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:57:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:57:43 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Josh Carroll In-Reply-To: <8cb6106e0809160941m57b9aa9ehc21b5f92a396082b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <8cb6106e0809160941m57b9aa9ehc21b5f92a396082b@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 1.10 (BSF 962 2008-03-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: FreeBSD Stable Subject: Re: recent MFC of soreceive_dgram breaks kernels without INET6 option X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:57:43 -0000 On Tue, 16 Sep 2008, Josh Carroll wrote: > I just csup'd this morning and now I cannot build a kernel that does not > include INET6. I can send my KERNCONF, but it is sufficient to create a > kernel config with: > > include GENERIC nooption INET6 > > Here's the error during kernel compilation of a kernel config without > "options INET6" in the kernel config: > > /usr/src/sys/netinet/udp_usrreq.c: In function 'udp_inpcb_init': > /usr/src/sys/netinet/udp_usrreq.c:170: error: 'udp6_usrreqs' > undeclared (first use in this function) > /usr/src/sys/netinet/udp_usrreq.c:170: error: (Each undeclared > identifier is reported only once > /usr/src/sys/netinet/udp_usrreq.c:170: error: for each function it appears in.) > > It looks like the MFC for the new soreceive_dgram stuff is the culprit. > > Can this can be fixed to not require IPv6? I have no desire to include it in > my kernel, but if that will be the requirement going forward, perhaps a note > in UPDATING is in order? This was an oversight on my part -- none of our LINT build targets (apparently) excludes INET6. It's fixed easily with an ifdef, and I've received re@ approval to merge the fix, so it's in the tree as of about an hour or two ago. If you experience continuing problems after a cvsup, please let me know. Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 20:02:41 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23FE21065684 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:02:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from max.kutsevol@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gx0-f17.google.com (mail-gx0-f17.google.com [209.85.217.17]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF76B8FC23 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:02:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from max.kutsevol@gmail.com) Received: by gxk10 with SMTP id 10so26274696gxk.19 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:02:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:references :in-reply-to:subject:date:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer:thread-index:content-language :x-cr-hashedpuzzle:x-cr-puzzleid:message-id; bh=/aTEzMN2tJCHF50lkiC/SgxXri05FteqJAGpAgpu95I=; b=kVUEkFLM6D/PlprMfyhsJQTIzxfrVUfXyDNM56YLQiN/RcllF4XyqOuN2EVLus85ip X6/1JUXaApwSeOdAEReU88k8hyG0a6HVvPwwM2RUiYRtnSd5/z2Et8yN5Ae/+lvG82Nn jW0Z+6FtZKdL1QCOVt03vaA10ueqPb9IKpKao= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer:thread-index :content-language:x-cr-hashedpuzzle:x-cr-puzzleid:message-id; b=WDR+CnTMMcSc6YE0siAEEdlKBeP/zR5E0f2j57Ncyf0JXmaUGTygQ/PugA7a/b4/FY sUa0Hfe/zqs7PyxEndVUWb5PrNy5x/JZ1HYRWJjIp6sevT/J+oKuC/Qov2CB45AueBys tso3kDtzJ0urZZBdGR4b8ZzIOf4cQenUebgDQ= Received: by 10.86.66.11 with SMTP id o11mr1160303fga.25.1221593587397; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:33:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from debugger ( [92.112.232.29]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 4sm20087510fge.8.2008.09.16.12.33.05 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:33:06 -0700 (PDT) From: =?koi8-r?B?69XDxdfPzCDtwcvTyc0=?= To: References: <20080916094831.22ED0106571B@hub.freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <20080916094831.22ED0106571B@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:32:46 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AckX4YyOleDtA484Qp6rO6wYOUfk7AAUMPmg Content-Language: ru x-cr-hashedpuzzle: AW45 BNpy BtUP DkJU EZEK Er55 GFOO GtBQ HiPs IkFx JHIy KW8P KtFB K3IS LT6U LpzH; 1; ZgByAGUAZQBiAHMAZAAtAHMAdABhAGIAbABlAEAAZgByAGUAZQBiAHMAZAAuAG8AcgBnAA==; Sosha1_v1; 7; {F3300CD7-6308-42EB-9AD0-166C2AB343D0}; bQBhAHgALgBrAHUAdABzAGUAdgBvAGwAQABnAG0AYQBpAGwALgBjAG8AbQA=; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:32:42 GMT; QwB5AHAAcgBlAHMAcwAgAFMAZQBtAGkAYwBvAG4AZAB1AGMAdABvAHIAIABVAFMAQgAgAHQAbwAgAHMAZQByAGkAYQBsAA== x-cr-puzzleid: {F3300CD7-6308-42EB-9AD0-166C2AB343D0} Message-ID: <48d009f2.0405560a.5255.fffff443@mx.google.com> Subject: Cypress Semiconductor USB to serial X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:02:41 -0000 My UPS has a usb interface with USB-to-Serial chip. But ucycom driver doesn't recognize it. uhid driver does, but it doesn't help me, I need a virtual com port. (output below is without uhid loaded) What can I do to get it working? udi = '/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/usb_device_665_5161_noserial' freebsd.device_file = '/dev/ugen1' (string) freebsd.driver = 'ugen' (string) freebsd.unit = 1 (0x1) (int) info.bus = 'usb_device' (string) info.parent = '/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/usb_device_0_0_noserial' (string) info.product = 'USB to Serial' (string) info.subsystem = 'usb_device' (string) info.udi = '/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/usb_device_665_5161_noserial' (string) info.vendor = 'Cypress Semiconductor' (string) usb_device.bus_number = 0 (0x0) (int) usb_device.can_wake_up = false (bool) usb_device.configuration_value = 1 (0x1) (int) usb_device.device_class = 0 (0x0) (int) usb_device.device_protocol = 0 (0x0) (int) usb_device.device_revision_bcd = 2 (0x2) (int) usb_device.device_subclass = 0 (0x0) (int) usb_device.is_self_powered = false (bool) usb_device.max_power = 100 (0x64) (int) usb_device.num_configurations = 1 (0x1) (int) usb_device.num_interfaces = 1 (0x1) (int) usb_device.num_ports = 0 (0x0) (int) usb_device.port_number = 3 (0x3) (int) usb_device.product = 'USB to Serial' (string) usb_device.product_id = 20833 (0x5161) (int) usb_device.speed_bcd = 336 (0x150) (int) usb_device.vendor = 'Cypress Semiconductor' (string) usb_device.vendor_id = 1637 (0x665) (int) usb_device.version_bcd = 272 (0x110) (int) From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 20:04:05 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B70BB1065682 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:04:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from josh.carroll@gmail.com) Received: from yw-out-2324.google.com (yw-out-2324.google.com [74.125.46.28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FB118FC15 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:04:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from josh.carroll@gmail.com) Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 9so873722ywe.13 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:04:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:reply-to :to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=RFCTuz580EhhR9z0/OFaLNr687xYqRcjDbbC3T38cMQ=; b=GbWWK/BKDHPcGgtoVsvk28uhTSTfugyy7dJhK5jDqMQsK8VNMWq1L1Hm4Mc73sV9b7 7fZpz1cOHJdYs5tUXCTxwv+0x/F4tItHezJiOot9SLZ/IIusgXvUVaV79keR0nAEQni5 Xp9xqOmdS0gZ0XrWsSI2M+DkJJoLZZ72kckhU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition:references; b=KBMkYfvC7i8Oho3HT6TweaCEzpE5XjZ4FScR2wLVFUwEW7zQsy0mry4Ao3OUIbMPnG MwnuUe4RxDKDyh4unwKQv3fvJALnSoDz/oPmuRZGkEpoz32vzLebVL8Y3+F0zcIfrNsh mXFV8n4br31uZ+3v/LZHryh7YFmY39713NFyg= Received: by 10.150.122.13 with SMTP id u13mr2129585ybc.66.1221595444500; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:04:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.11.21 with HTTP; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:04:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8cb6106e0809161304if19ec1crf00be1da955fed54@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:04:04 -0400 From: "Josh Carroll" To: "Robert Watson" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <8cb6106e0809160941m57b9aa9ehc21b5f92a396082b@mail.gmail.com> Cc: FreeBSD Stable Subject: Re: recent MFC of soreceive_dgram breaks kernels without INET6 option X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: josh.carroll@gmail.com List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:04:05 -0000 > This was an oversight on my part -- none of our LINT build targets > (apparently) excludes INET6. It's fixed easily with an ifdef, and I've > received re@ approval to merge the fix, so it's in the tree as of about an > hour or two ago. If you experience continuing problems after a cvsup, > please let me know. Thanks Robert! I pulled down the new version via cvsweb.freebsd.org, since my cvsup mirror did not yet have the update. And the kernel is building properly now. Regards, Josh From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 20:15:37 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0A10106577F for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:15:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from QMTA08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.80]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2D538FC16 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:15:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from OMTA11.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.36]) by QMTA08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id FXbK1a02L0mlR8UA8YFYh2; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:15:32 +0000 Received: from koitsu.dyndns.org ([67.180.253.227]) by OMTA11.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id FYFX1a0084v8bD78XYFXNj; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:15:31 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=QycZ5dHgAAAA:8 a=G329tVLjvZL8yuyc01wA:9 a=Bz9ST29fntjB2dzfFlMA:7 a=nU0fqcN7yFQmFOjtIGK_SK3VZWIA:4 a=EoioJ0NPDVgA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 Received: by icarus.home.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E20B017B81A; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:15:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:15:30 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Mike Tancsa Message-ID: <20080916201530.GA72912@icarus.home.lan> References: <20080916170452.GB4861@0lsen.net> <20080916175858.GA70396@icarus.home.lan> <20080916181903.GC7540@0lsen.net> <20080916185401.GA71275@icarus.home.lan> <200809161934.m8GJY9oe039218@lava.sentex.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200809161934.m8GJY9oe039218@lava.sentex.ca> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: stable@freebsd.org, Clint Olsen Subject: Re: Help debugging DMA_READ errors X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:15:38 -0000 On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 03:34:07PM -0400, Mike Tancsa wrote: > At 02:54 PM 9/16/2008, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > >> However, there's no sign of DMA errors in the SMART log. I'm not sure >> what to make of that; I really would expect there to be some. > > Would not bad cables (or trays) be consistent with symptoms like that ? > i.e. the OS sees errors, but when we ask the drive, it says, "what > errors". I am sure there are other things that could cause this, but in > the past I would start with the cables and or trays. My official answer is: "I'm not sure". :-) Anything is possible. I'd expect carrier/tray problems to manifest themselves as constant data corruption, or disks falling off the bus (loose signal cable or losing power). I'd expect "detach" messages for the SATA channels. But remember, ICH5 lacks AHCI, and I don't know if the FreeBSD ata(4) driver would report detach/attach in that case. I guess a disk falling off the bus or disappearing could in fact lock the controller up in this scenario, I'd imagine. I'd expect cable problems to show constant data errors or loss, and regular DMA errors. FreeBSD would be quite chatty about this, I assume. He just started getting these, and they're only "every couple days". I'd also expect the attribute counters to be much higher -- a bad cable would eventually get noticed by both the controller and the disk, maybe just not consistently. ZFS could help with detecting this (checksum errors), but that's a different beast. I have doubts about the cables being bad because he's seeing issues on a SATA disk and a PATA disk. It seems very unlikely that separate SATA and PATA cables would go bad within a day or two of one another. Another possibility is that the firmware on his drives lack UDMA error logging in SMART. I've seen some drives do this (increase the attribute but not stick anything in the SMART log), but they were old Maxtors. UDMA CRCs were sky-high (to the point where the general drive health was FAIL, REPLACE NOW), but nothing in the SMART log. The acd0 thing bothers me the most, I think -- not because of the oddity, but because it tried to read the TOC of a disc that wasn't even there. A specific ATAPI command induces that, if I remember right. All that said: there is absolutely no harm in replacing the cables! By doing so you can rule those out. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 20:46:03 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE86A1065670 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:46:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from clint@0lsen.net) Received: from belle.0lsen.net (belle.0lsen.net [75.150.32.89]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCBAA8FC08 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:46:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from clint@0lsen.net) Received: by belle.0lsen.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id BE0237962D; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:45:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:42:23 -0700 From: Clint Olsen To: Mike Tancsa Message-ID: <20080916204223.GA19373@0lsen.net> References: <20080916170452.GB4861@0lsen.net> <20080916175858.GA70396@icarus.home.lan> <20080916181903.GC7540@0lsen.net> <20080916185401.GA71275@icarus.home.lan> <200809161934.m8GJY9oe039218@lava.sentex.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200809161934.m8GJY9oe039218@lava.sentex.ca> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Organization: NULlsen Network X-Disclaimer: Mutt Bites! Resent-From: clint@0lsen.net Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:45:59 -0700 Resent-To: stable@freebsd.org Resent-Message-Id: <20080916204559.BE0237962D@belle.0lsen.net> X-0lsen-net-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner-ID: BE0237962D.9E83D X-0lsen-net-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-0lsen-net-MailScanner-From: clint@0lsen.net X-Spam-Status: No Cc: Subject: Re: Help debugging DMA_READ errors X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:46:03 -0000 On Sep 16, Mike Tancsa wrote: > Would not bad cables (or trays) be consistent with symptoms like that ? > i.e. the OS sees errors, but when we ask the drive, it says, "what > errors". I am sure there are other things that could cause this, but in > the past I would start with the cables and or trays. Interestingly enough, here are the results for the disk that has the poor-man's eSATA. I would assume those read errors have something to do with cabling. -Clint smartctl version 5.38 [i386-portbld-freebsd6.3] Copyright (C) 2002-8 Bruce Allen Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/ === START OF INFORMATION SECTION === Model Family: Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 family Device Model: ST3500641AS Serial Number: 3PM0Y73G Firmware Version: 3.AAJ User Capacity: 500,107,862,016 bytes Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show] ATA Version is: 7 ATA Standard is: Exact ATA specification draft version not indicated Local Time is: Tue Sep 16 13:41:46 2008 PDT SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability. SMART support is: Enabled === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION === SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED See vendor-specific Attribute list for marginal Attributes. General SMART Values: Offline data collection status: (0x82) Offline data collection activity was completed without error. Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled. Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test routine completed without error or no self-test has ever been run. Total time to complete Offline data collection: ( 430) seconds. Offline data collection capabilities: (0x5b) SMART execute Offline immediate. Auto Offline data collection on/off support. Suspend Offline collection upon new command. Offline surface scan supported. Self-test supported. No Conveyance Self-test supported. Selective Self-test supported. SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering power-saving mode. Supports SMART auto save timer. Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported. General Purpose Logging supported. Short self-test routine recommended polling time: ( 1) minutes. Extended self-test routine recommended polling time: ( 255) minutes. SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10 Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds: ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000f 114 096 006 Pre-fail Always - 80481549 3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0003 087 087 000 Pre-fail Always - 0 4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 100 100 020 Old_age Always - 6 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 036 Pre-fail Always - 0 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000f 085 060 030 Pre-fail Always - 341147812 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 095 095 000 Old_age Always - 5037 10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0013 100 100 097 Pre-fail Always - 0 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 020 Old_age Always - 9 187 Reported_Uncorrect 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 0 189 High_Fly_Writes 0x003a 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 0 190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022 050 043 045 Old_age Always In_the_past 50 (Lifetime Min/Max 32/53) 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 050 057 000 Old_age Always - 50 (0 21 0 0) 195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x001a 053 049 000 Old_age Always - 154508649 197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0012 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 0 198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0010 100 100 000 Old_age Offline - 0 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x003e 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 0 200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x0000 100 253 000 Old_age Offline - 0 202 TA_Increase_Count 0x0032 100 253 000 Old_age Always - 0 SMART Error Log Version: 1 No Errors Logged SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1 Num Test_Description Status Remaining LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error # 1 Short offline Completed without error 00% 5037 - SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1 SPAN MIN_LBA MAX_LBA CURRENT_TEST_STATUS 1 0 0 Not_testing 2 0 0 Not_testing 3 0 0 Not_testing 4 0 0 Not_testing 5 0 0 Not_testing Selective self-test flags (0x0): After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk. If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 21:33:24 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7E281065676 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:33:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aragon@phat.za.net) Received: from mail.geek.sh (decoder.geek.sh [196.36.198.81]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B9008FC1F for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:33:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aragon@phat.za.net) Received: by mail.geek.sh (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E1E7924D26; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 23:33:22 +0200 (SAST) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 23:33:22 +0200 From: Aragon Gouveia To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080916213322.GA70196@phat.za.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.10-RELEASE-p2 i386 Subject: Keyspan USB serial adapter X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:33:24 -0000 Hi, I'm on the market for a USB serial adapter. The Keyspan USA-19HS gets a lot of good reviews for its performance, but I've noticed previous Keyspan models have a history of not supporting FreeBSD due to firmware issues. The 19HS is listed in /usr/src/sys/dev/usb/usbdevs with nothing noted about firmware (as opposed to the older 19WQ). Can I assume that the firmware problems of the past aren't relevant to the current 19HS? Can anyone confirm if a USA-19HS works on FreeBSD 7-STABLE right now? Thanks, Aragon From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 21:43:48 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 459AB106566C for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:43:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bahamasfranks@gmail.com) Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.242]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F01D98FC08 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:43:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bahamasfranks@gmail.com) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b33so291464ana.13 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:43:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:reply-to :sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=7RQlftkCqg/Z0Hj21lwqCwIXKP0FN2rQaiVtxQFR7uY=; 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charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline References: <20080916094831.22ED0106571B@hub.freebsd.org> <48d009f2.0405560a.5255.fffff443@mx.google.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: c443e0663d64d11a Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cypress Semiconductor USB to serial X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: stevefranks@ieee.org List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:43:48 -0000 T24gVHVlLCBTZXAgMTYsIDIwMDggYXQgMTI6MzIgUE0sIOvVw8XXz8wg7cHL08nNIDxtYXgua3V0 c2V2b2xAZ21haWwuY29tPiB3cm90ZToKPiBNeSBVUFMgaGFzIGEgdXNiIGludGVyZmFjZSB3aXRo IFVTQi10by1TZXJpYWwgY2hpcC4KPiBCdXQgdWN5Y29tIGRyaXZlciBkb2Vzbid0IHJlY29nbml6 ZSBpdC4KPiB1aGlkIGRyaXZlciBkb2VzLCBidXQgaXQgZG9lc24ndCBoZWxwIG1lLCBJIG5lZWQg YSB2aXJ0dWFsIGNvbSBwb3J0Lgo+IChvdXRwdXQgYmVsb3cgaXMgd2l0aG91dCB1aGlkIGxvYWRl ZCkKPiBXaGF0IGNhbiBJIGRvIHRvIGdldCBpdCB3b3JraW5nPwo+Cj4gdWRpID0gJy9vcmcvZnJl ZWRlc2t0b3AvSGFsL2RldmljZXMvdXNiX2RldmljZV82NjVfNTE2MV9ub3NlcmlhbCcKPiAgZnJl ZWJzZC5kZXZpY2VfZmlsZSA9ICcvZGV2L3VnZW4xJyAgKHN0cmluZykKPiAgZnJlZWJzZC5kcml2 ZXIgPSAndWdlbicgIChzdHJpbmcpCj4gIGZyZWVic2QudW5pdCA9IDEgICgweDEpICAoaW50KQo+ ICBpbmZvLmJ1cyA9ICd1c2JfZGV2aWNlJyAgKHN0cmluZykKPiAgaW5mby5wYXJlbnQgPSAnL29y Zy9mcmVlZGVza3RvcC9IYWwvZGV2aWNlcy91c2JfZGV2aWNlXzBfMF9ub3NlcmlhbCcKPiAoc3Ry aW5nKQo+ICBpbmZvLnByb2R1Y3QgPSAnVVNCIHRvIFNlcmlhbCcgIChzdHJpbmcpCj4gIGluZm8u c3Vic3lzdGVtID0gJ3VzYl9kZXZpY2UnICAoc3RyaW5nKQo+ICBpbmZvLnVkaSA9ICcvb3JnL2Zy ZWVkZXNrdG9wL0hhbC9kZXZpY2VzL3VzYl9kZXZpY2VfNjY1XzUxNjFfbm9zZXJpYWwnCj4gKHN0 cmluZykKPiAgaW5mby52ZW5kb3IgPSAnQ3lwcmVzcyBTZW1pY29uZHVjdG9yJyAgKHN0cmluZykK PiAgdXNiX2RldmljZS5idXNfbnVtYmVyID0gMCAgKDB4MCkgIChpbnQpCj4gIHVzYl9kZXZpY2Uu Y2FuX3dha2VfdXAgPSBmYWxzZSAgKGJvb2wpCj4gIHVzYl9kZXZpY2UuY29uZmlndXJhdGlvbl92 YWx1ZSA9IDEgICgweDEpICAoaW50KQo+ICB1c2JfZGV2aWNlLmRldmljZV9jbGFzcyA9IDAgICgw eDApICAoaW50KQo+ICB1c2JfZGV2aWNlLmRldmljZV9wcm90b2NvbCA9IDAgICgweDApICAoaW50 KQo+ICB1c2JfZGV2aWNlLmRldmljZV9yZXZpc2lvbl9iY2QgPSAyICAoMHgyKSAgKGludCkKPiAg dXNiX2RldmljZS5kZXZpY2Vfc3ViY2xhc3MgPSAwICAoMHgwKSAgKGludCkKPiAgdXNiX2Rldmlj ZS5pc19zZWxmX3Bvd2VyZWQgPSBmYWxzZSAgKGJvb2wpCj4gIHVzYl9kZXZpY2UubWF4X3Bvd2Vy ID0gMTAwICAoMHg2NCkgIChpbnQpCj4gIHVzYl9kZXZpY2UubnVtX2NvbmZpZ3VyYXRpb25zID0g MSAgKDB4MSkgIChpbnQpCj4gIHVzYl9kZXZpY2UubnVtX2ludGVyZmFjZXMgPSAxICAoMHgxKSAg KGludCkKPiAgdXNiX2RldmljZS5udW1fcG9ydHMgPSAwICAoMHgwKSAgKGludCkKPiAgdXNiX2Rl dmljZS5wb3J0X251bWJlciA9IDMgICgweDMpICAoaW50KQo+ICB1c2JfZGV2aWNlLnByb2R1Y3Qg PSAnVVNCIHRvIFNlcmlhbCcgIChzdHJpbmcpCj4gIHVzYl9kZXZpY2UucHJvZHVjdF9pZCA9IDIw ODMzICAoMHg1MTYxKSAgKGludCkKPiAgdXNiX2RldmljZS5zcGVlZF9iY2QgPSAzMzYgICgweDE1 MCkgIChpbnQpCj4gIHVzYl9kZXZpY2UudmVuZG9yID0gJ0N5cHJlc3MgU2VtaWNvbmR1Y3Rvcicg IChzdHJpbmcpCj4gIHVzYl9kZXZpY2UudmVuZG9yX2lkID0gMTYzNyAgKDB4NjY1KSAgKGludCkK PiAgdXNiX2RldmljZS52ZXJzaW9uX2JjZCA9IDI3MiAgKDB4MTEwKSAgKGludCkKPgo+IF9fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCj4gZnJlZWJzZC1zdGFi bGVAZnJlZWJzZC5vcmcgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0Cj4gaHR0cDovL2xpc3RzLmZyZWVic2Qub3JnL21h aWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vZnJlZWJzZC1zdGFibGUKPiBUbyB1bnN1YnNjcmliZSwgc2VuZCBhbnkg bWFpbCB0byAiZnJlZWJzZC1zdGFibGUtdW5zdWJzY3JpYmVAZnJlZWJzZC5vcmciCj4KCkkgYmVs aWV2ZSBtb3N0IG9sZGVyIGN5cHJlc3MgY2hpcHMgcmVxdWlyZSB5b3UgbG9hZCBhIC5oZXggZmly bXdhcmUKZmlsZSBmcm9tIGRldmZzLnJ1bGVzIG9uIHVzYiBjb25uZWN0IGJlZm9yZSB0aGV5IHdp bGwgZG8gYW55dGhpbmcKdXNlZnVsLiAgWW91IGNhbiBwcm9iYWJseSBmaW5kIHRoaXMgZmlsZSAo d2l0aCBzb21lIG90aGVyIGV4dGVuc2lvbgp0aGFuIC5oZXgsIG5vIGRvdWJ0KSBpbiB0aGUgd2lu ZG93cyBkcml2ZXIgcGFja2FnZS9pbnN0YWxsIHRoYXQgY29tZXMKd2l0aCB0aGUgZGV2aWNlLiAg WW91IG1pZ2h0IG5lZWQgYSBzcGFyZSB3aW5kb3dzIGJveCB0byB1bi1jYWIgdGhlCmZpbGVzLiAg QW55d2F5LCBhZnRlciB0aGF0IHlvdSB3b3VsZCBjYWxsIGV6bG9hZAooL3Vzci9wb3J0cy9taXNj L2V6bG9hZCkgZnJvbSBkZXZmcy5ydWxlcyB0byAiYnVybiIgdGhlIC5oZXggaW50byByYW0KZXZl cnkgdGltZSB0aGUgZGV2aWNlIGlzIHBsdWdnZWQgaW4uICBJIGFtIHRoZSBuZXcgZXpsb2FkIG1h aW50YWluZXIKYXMgb2YgbGFzdCB3ZWVrLiAgZXpsb2FkIHdvbid0IHdvcmsgd2l0aCByZWNlbnQg Q3lwcmVzcyBjaGlwcywgYnV0IEkKaGF2ZSBhIHBhdGNoIHN1Y2ggdGhhdCBpdCB3aWxsLiAgSWYg eW91IHRoaW5rIHRoaXMgaXMgeW91ciBwcm9ibGVtLApnZXQgYmFjayB0byBtZSwgYW5kIEknbGwg Z2V0IHlvdSBzdGFydGVkLgoKT24gdGhlIG90aGVyIGhhbmQsIHRoZSBDeXByZXNzIGNoaXAgbWF5 IG5vdCBuZWVkIGEgLmhleCBhdCBhbGwgLSB0aGF0CmlzIG5vdCBzb21ldGhpbmcgSSBrbm93IGZv ciBzdXJlLi4uSSBkbyBrbm93IHRoYXQgc2lsaWNvbiBsYWJzICYgZnRkaQpzZXJpYWwtdXNiIGNv bnZlcnRlcnMgaGF2ZSBuYXRpdmUgc3VwcG9ydCBhbmQgbmVlZCBubyAuaGV4IChJIGhhdmUKc2V2 ZXJhbCBvZiBlYWNoKS4uLgoKU3RldmUK From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 22:16:17 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 070B11065671 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:16:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thompsa@FreeBSD.org) Received: from pele.citylink.co.nz (pele.citylink.co.nz [202.8.44.226]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5BC18FC19 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:16:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thompsa@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pele.citylink.co.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10C152BCBE; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:46:52 +1200 (NZST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at citylink.co.nz Received: from pele.citylink.co.nz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (pele.citylink.co.nz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UGLeYGGduosS; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:46:48 +1200 (NZST) Received: from citylink.fud.org.nz (unknown [202.8.44.45]) by pele.citylink.co.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:46:45 +1200 (NZST) Received: by citylink.fud.org.nz (Postfix, from userid 1001) id C0B9311433; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:46:44 +1200 (NZST) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:46:44 -0700 From: Andrew Thompson To: ??????? ?????? Message-ID: <20080916214644.GA48294@citylink.fud.org.nz> References: <20080916094831.22ED0106571B@hub.freebsd.org> <48d009f2.0405560a.5255.fffff443@mx.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <48d009f2.0405560a.5255.fffff443@mx.google.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2007-11-01) Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cypress Semiconductor USB to serial X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:16:17 -0000 On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 10:32:46PM +0300, ??????? ?????? wrote: > My UPS has a usb interface with USB-to-Serial chip. > But ucycom driver doesn't recognize it. > uhid driver does, but it doesn't help me, I need a virtual com port. > (output below is without uhid loaded) > What can I do to get it working? You could try adding it to the ucycom_devices table in sys/dev/usb/ucycom.c and recompiling ucycom. Andrew From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 16 23:17:05 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7B611065670 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 23:17:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from clint@0lsen.net) Received: from belle.0lsen.net (belle.0lsen.net [75.150.32.89]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9632A8FC13 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 23:17:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from clint@0lsen.net) Received: by belle.0lsen.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 7C2CD7962D; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:16:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:16:55 -0700 From: Clint Olsen To: Jeremy Chadwick Message-ID: <20080916231655.GC19665@0lsen.net> References: <20080916170452.GB4861@0lsen.net> <20080916175858.GA70396@icarus.home.lan> <20080916181903.GC7540@0lsen.net> <20080916185401.GA71275@icarus.home.lan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080916185401.GA71275@icarus.home.lan> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Organization: NULlsen Network X-Disclaimer: Mutt Bites! X-0lsen-net-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner-ID: 7C2CD7962D.57A00 X-0lsen-net-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-0lsen-net-MailScanner-From: clint@0lsen.net X-Spam-Status: No Cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Help debugging DMA_READ errors X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 23:17:05 -0000 On Sep 16, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > That's very strange then. Something definitely tried to utilise acd0 at > that hour of the night. What is acd0 connected to, ATA-wise? Again, I > assume it's PATA, but I'd like to know the primary/secondary and > master/slave organisation, since you are using a PATA disk too. What's the best way to give you this? Generally with disks I try to separate them from DVD/CD drives, so I don't think they are on the same chain. Is the question whether or not the DVD/CD is a slave to the PATA disk? acd0: CDRW at ata1-master UDMA33 > Looks fine, although I swore ATA controllers listed their IRQs. atapci0 > doesn't appear to have an IRQ associated with it (should be 14 or 15), > so that's a little odd to me. vmstat -i would help here. interrupt total rate irq1: atkbd0 14 0 irq6: fdc0 1 0 irq12: psm0 1624 0 irq14: ata0 410187 14 irq15: ata1 225418 7 irq18: uhci2+ 111881 3 irq22: skc0 260062 9 cpu0: timer 56551841 1999 Total 57561028 2035 > Okay, there are some problems with your disks, but it's going to be > impossible for me to determine if the below problems caused what you saw. > First, ad0: I just freed up a 300G SATA disk, so I can swap out the PATA drive if you think it's worth the effort. > 1) Run "smartctl -t short" on /dev/ad0 and /dev/ad4. You can safely use > the disks during this time. After a few minutes (depends on how much > disk I/O is happening; the more I/O, the longer the test takes to > complete), you should see an entry in the SMART self-test log saying > Completed. Once you see that, you should run smartctl -a on the disk > again, and see if the attributes labelled "Offline" are different than > they were before. > > 2) Consider running smartd. I do not normally advocate this, but in > your case, it may be the only way to see which attribute values are > actually changing on you if/when the issue happens again. Any time a > value changes, it'll be logged via syslog. You can set up smartd.conf > to ignore certain attributes (e.g. temperature, since that has a > tendency to fluctuate up and down a degree). I'm looking at that. The sample conf file that comes with it isn't the easiest on the eyes, so I haven't figure out what configuration I want or how to set it up yet. My external hard drive is running around 50 in that small external enclosure. That sounds bad. 190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022 050 043 045 Old_age Always In_the_past 50 (Lifetime Min/Max 32/53) 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 050 057 000 Old_age Always - 50 (0 21 0 0) > If/when this happens again, you should be able to look at your logs and > see what counters have changed. For example if you see something like > Power_Cycle_Count or Stop_Start_Count increase, you have disks which are > losing power. > > Welcome to the pain of debugging disk problems. :-) Thanks :) -Clint -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 02:58:59 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC40F1065670 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 02:58:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kaho@ed.niigata-u.ac.jp) Received: from mxav02.cc.niigata-u.ac.jp (mxav02.cc.niigata-u.ac.jp [133.35.17.130]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9A478FC13 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 02:58:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kaho@ed.niigata-u.ac.jp) Received: from mxav02.cc.niigata-u.ac.jp (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD3864540D7 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:58:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from pf2.ed.niigata-u.ac.jp (pf2.ed.niigata-u.ac.jp [133.35.172.22]) by mxav02.cc.niigata-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71E284540B3 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:58:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from pf2.ed.niigata-u.ac.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pf2.ed.niigata-u.ac.jp (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id m8H2wsrO064420 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:58:54 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from kaho@pf2.ed.niigata-u.ac.jp) Message-Id: <200809170258.m8H2wsrO064420@pf2.ed.niigata-u.ac.jp> To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org From: KAHO Toshikazu References: <48CD1C54.7040208@incunabulum.net> <20080912065343.GB49512@icarus.home.lan> <200809131109.06694.jhb@freebsd.org> User-Agent: EMH/1.14.1 SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.8 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?S?= =?ISO-8859-4?Q?hij=F2?=) APEL/10.7 Emacs/21.3 (i386--freebsd) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:58:54 +0900 Sender: kaho@ed.niigata-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: alpm(4) I/O range is claimed by ACPI X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 02:59:00 -0000 Hello, I am sorry to mistake copying message-id and break mail thread. >> I tried looking for this device in the DSDT, I don't see anything which >> obviously resembles it. The equivalent Linux driver has a means of >> forcing the mapping to be set up if it isn't available: >> http://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/i2c/busses/i2c-ali15x3 >> >> It looks like there used to be a means of doing this in the FreeBSD >> driver but it got nuked. And that ASUS didn't much care about power >> management support in this machine... > >If you can re-enable it in such a way that it uses bus_alloc_resource(), then >the driver will probably work fine. How to re-enable it? Please give me some points. PCIR_BAR is always 0, even if any values are written by pciconf. -- KAHO Toshikazu From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 04:24:28 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9001B106566B for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 04:24:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from QMTA08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.80]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F6FE8FC22 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 04:24:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from OMTA11.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.36]) by QMTA08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id FXbK1a02L0mlR8UA8gQUX6; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 04:24:28 +0000 Received: from koitsu.dyndns.org ([67.180.253.227]) by OMTA11.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id FgQS1a0084v8bD78XgQSc9; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 04:24:27 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=QycZ5dHgAAAA:8 a=Y0Ln-52aUg6VcmB1Xv8A:9 a=ZF5JEMwrFPNEUK2Fps5ZDYJH8nMA:4 a=EoioJ0NPDVgA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 Received: by icarus.home.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4874417B822; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:24:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:24:26 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Aragon Gouveia Message-ID: <20080917042426.GA81776@icarus.home.lan> References: <20080916213322.GA70196@phat.za.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080916213322.GA70196@phat.za.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Keyspan USB serial adapter X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 04:24:28 -0000 On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 11:33:22PM +0200, Aragon Gouveia wrote: > I'm on the market for a USB serial adapter. The Keyspan USA-19HS gets a > lot of good reviews for its performance, but I've noticed previous Keyspan > models have a history of not supporting FreeBSD due to firmware issues. > The 19HS is listed in /usr/src/sys/dev/usb/usbdevs with nothing noted about > firmware (as opposed to the older 19WQ). Can I assume that the firmware > problems of the past aren't relevant to the current 19HS? > > Can anyone confirm if a USA-19HS works on FreeBSD 7-STABLE right now? Since you're still in the market: I've heard wonderful things about any of the USB serial adapters that use the Prolific chip; see uplcom(4). Others apparently are known for dropping characters on occasion. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 05:43:33 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 472D91065684 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 05:43:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from QMTA02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.24]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 222728FC18 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 05:43:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from OMTA01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.11]) by QMTA02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id FYF71a00B0EPchoA2hjT0o; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 05:43:27 +0000 Received: from koitsu.dyndns.org ([67.180.253.227]) by OMTA01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id FhjS1a0024v8bD78MhjSZb; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 05:43:27 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=QycZ5dHgAAAA:8 a=CQTDIXD9_gMFmE6EXqMA:9 a=xvYsILBxeiOTfIue5x4A:7 a=mIoJDWruu8pLFB0wRBoRzAuxnRYA:4 a=EoioJ0NPDVgA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 Received: by icarus.home.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3A00C17B81A; Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:43:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:43:26 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Clint Olsen Message-ID: <20080917054326.GC81776@icarus.home.lan> References: <20080916170452.GB4861@0lsen.net> <20080916175858.GA70396@icarus.home.lan> <20080916181903.GC7540@0lsen.net> <20080916185401.GA71275@icarus.home.lan> <20080916231655.GC19665@0lsen.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080916231655.GC19665@0lsen.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Help debugging DMA_READ errors X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 05:43:33 -0000 On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 04:16:55PM -0700, Clint Olsen wrote: > On Sep 16, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > > That's very strange then. Something definitely tried to utilise acd0 at > > that hour of the night. What is acd0 connected to, ATA-wise? Again, I > > assume it's PATA, but I'd like to know the primary/secondary and > > master/slave organisation, since you are using a PATA disk too. > > What's the best way to give you this? Generally with disks I try to > separate them from DVD/CD drives, so I don't think they are on the same > chain. Is the question whether or not the DVD/CD is a slave to the PATA > disk? Correct. I wanted to see if it was on the same primary or secondary controller as the ad0 disk which emitted errors. > acd0: CDRW at ata1-master UDMA33 ...and it doesn't appear to be. Taken from your previous mails: ad0: 114473MB at ata0-master UDMA100 acd0: CDRW at ata1-master UDMA33 What this confirms is that there are two separate PATA cables (one for the ad0 disk, sitting on primary-master on IRQ 14, and one for the acd0 DVD drive, sitting on secondary-master on IRQ 15). So that would mean, in the case of "bad cables", you would have *three* separate cables (2xPATA, 1xSATA) which would all have gone bad at the same time. This is highly, highly unlikely. > > Looks fine, although I swore ATA controllers listed their IRQs. atapci0 > > doesn't appear to have an IRQ associated with it (should be 14 or 15), > > so that's a little odd to me. vmstat -i would help here. > > interrupt total rate > irq1: atkbd0 14 0 > irq6: fdc0 1 0 > irq12: psm0 1624 0 > irq14: ata0 410187 14 > irq15: ata1 225418 7 > irq18: uhci2+ 111881 3 > irq22: skc0 260062 9 > cpu0: timer 56551841 1999 > Total 57561028 2035 IRQs sharing is in effect, despite an APIC being used. But I doubt this is an interrupt problem. IRQ18 is also shared with at least one other device; it's definitely shared with the USB controller, but the "+" indicates there's even more devices associated with the IRQ. Piecing together things from previous mails: ad0 is on ata0 (which is atapci0, Intel ICH5 UDMA100 controller; IRQ 14) acd0 is on ata1 (which is atapci0, Intel ICH5 UDMA100 controller; IRQ 15) ad4 is on ata2 (which is atapci1, Intel ICH5 SATA150 controller; IRQ 18) ad6 is on ata3 (which is atapci1, Intel ICH5 SATA150 controller; IRQ 18) > > Okay, there are some problems with your disks, but it's going to be > > impossible for me to determine if the below problems caused what you saw. > > First, ad0: > > I just freed up a 300G SATA disk, so I can swap out the PATA drive if you > think it's worth the effort. With regards to ad0, it's entirely your call. I'm pedantic about bad blocks, even if they've been remapped successfully, but that's just me. Others are more relaxed about it all. > > 1) Run "smartctl -t short" on /dev/ad0 and /dev/ad4. You can safely use > > the disks during this time. After a few minutes (depends on how much > > disk I/O is happening; the more I/O, the longer the test takes to > > complete), you should see an entry in the SMART self-test log saying > > Completed. Once you see that, you should run smartctl -a on the disk > > again, and see if the attributes labelled "Offline" are different than > > they were before. > > > > 2) Consider running smartd. I do not normally advocate this, but in > > your case, it may be the only way to see which attribute values are > > actually changing on you if/when the issue happens again. Any time a > > value changes, it'll be logged via syslog. You can set up smartd.conf > > to ignore certain attributes (e.g. temperature, since that has a > > tendency to fluctuate up and down a degree). > > I'm looking at that. The sample conf file that comes with it isn't the > easiest on the eyes, so I haven't figure out what configuration I want or > how to set it up yet. The example configuration is overzealous with comments and is badly formatted making it difficult to read. The simple version: If smartd sees the string DEVICESCAN (before any disk definitions), it'll simply probe SMART stats periodically for all disks attached at the time smartd was started. (If disk definitions are seen first, then it ignores DEVICESCAN from that point forward). The problem with DEVICESCAN is that you can't give each device its own flags (see below). Each disk is configured on its own line in the config. The flags you can pass it do many different things (ignore certain changing attributes (-I), send mail to an address on attribute change (-m), and many other things -- see smartd.conf(5)). > My external hard drive is running around 50 in that small external > enclosure. That sounds bad. > > 190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022 050 043 045 Old_age Always In_the_past 50 (Lifetime Min/Max 32/53) > 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 050 057 000 Old_age Always - 50 (0 21 0 0) I covered this in another mail; yes, the temperature is of concern, but it's not causing the DMA errors you're seeing on other disks. :-) -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 05:59:59 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F59F106564A; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 05:59:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from richard@unixguru.nl) Received: from mx1.unixguru.nl (mx1.unixguru.nl [77.37.12.119]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD7788FC26; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 05:59:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from richard@unixguru.nl) Received: from mail.unixguru.nl (www.unixguru.nl [217.122.36.112]) by mx1.unixguru.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B7931F4B1; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 07:05:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost.unixguru.nl [127.0.0.1]) by mail.unixguru.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 358951141B; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 07:05:44 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at unixguru.nl Received: from mail.unixguru.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.unixguru.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K9M-EXJkye4o; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 07:05:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (shell.unixguru.nl [192.168.10.20]) by mail.unixguru.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC70311408; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 07:05:41 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 07:03:30 +0200 From: Richard Arends To: Jeremy Chadwick Message-ID: <20080917050330.GB62255@shell.unixguru.nl> References: <20080916213322.GA70196@phat.za.net> <20080917042426.GA81776@icarus.home.lan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080917042426.GA81776@icarus.home.lan> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: Aragon Gouveia , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Keyspan USB serial adapter X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 05:59:59 -0000 On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 09:24:26PM -0700, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > Since you're still in the market: I've heard wonderful things about any > of the USB serial adapters that use the Prolific chip; see uplcom(4). I can second that. I use a Sitecom CN-104 (also Prolific) with several devices like Sun hardware and Soekris/Wrap systems boards and it al works perfectly (FreeBSD/Linux and Windows). http://www.sitecom.com/product.php?productname=USB+to+serial+cable+%96+60cm&productcode=CN-104&productid=31&subgroupid=20 -- Regards, Richard. /* Homo Sapiens non urinat in ventum */ From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 11:11:38 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C25751065680; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:11:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (unknown [IPv6:2a01:170:102f::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B1EE8FC12; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:11:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id m8HBBNAk081065; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:11:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id m8HBBMhD081064; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:11:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from olli) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:11:22 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <200809171111.m8HBBMhD081064@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, joji@eskimo.com, gavin@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20080916112040.A27758@eskimo.com> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-stable User-Agent: tin/1.8.3-20070201 ("Scotasay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/6.4-PRERELEASE-20080904 (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:11:24 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Subject: Re: unsupported NVIDIA SATA controller X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, joji@eskimo.com, gavin@FreeBSD.ORG List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:11:38 -0000 Joseph Olatt wrote: > Gavin Atkinson wrote: > > Out of interest, what motherboard is this on? > > Is there a way to find out the motherboard details without > opening up the box? Yes. Install and run dmidecode from ports/sysutils/dmidecode. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "And believe me, as a C++ programmer, I don't hesitate to question the decisions of language designers. After a decent amount of C++ exposure, Python's flaws seem ridiculously small." -- Ville Vainio From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 11:23:12 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 315431065679; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:23:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E05998FC1D; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:23:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [65.122.17.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64EFF46B2C; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 07:23:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:23:11 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Norbert Papke In-Reply-To: <200809151813.58749.fbsd-ml@scrapper.ca> Message-ID: References: <200809141219.24943.fbsd-ml@scrapper.ca> <1221471431.49328.5.camel@buffy.york.ac.uk> <200809151813.58749.fbsd-ml@scrapper.ca> User-Agent: Alpine 1.10 (BSF 962 2008-03-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: Gavin Atkinson , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Possible UDP related deadlock in 7.1-PRERELEASE X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:23:12 -0000 On Mon, 15 Sep 2008, Norbert Papke wrote: > With WITNESS enabled, I now experience panics and could not follow your > instructions. There is no core dump. The following gets logged to > /var/log/messages: > > shared lock of (rw) udpinp @ /usr/src/sys/netinet/udp_usrreq.c:864 > while exclusively locked from /usr/src/sys/netinet6/udp6_usrreq.c:940 > panic: share->excl > KDB: stack backtrace: > db_trace_self_wrapper(c06fda7c,f6b96978,c052046a,c06fbb5d,c07695c0,...) at > db_trace_self_wrapper+0x26 > kdb_backtrace(c06fbb5d,c07695c0,c06febd1,f6b96984,f6b96984,...) at > kdb_backtrace+0x29 > panic(c06febd1,c070c409,3ac,c0709eee,360,...) at panic+0xaa > witness_checkorder(ccd5209c,1,c0709eee,360,8,...) at witness_checkorder+0x17c > _rw_rlock(ccd5209c,c0709eee,360,c07780e0,cd4652c8,...) at _rw_rlock+0x2a > udp_send(d3942000,0,c580f400,c68faa00,0,...) at udp_send+0x197 > udp6_send(d3942000,0,c580f400,c68faa00,0,...) at udp6_send+0x140 > sosend_generic(d3942000,c68faa00,f6b96be8,0,0,...) at sosend_generic+0x50d > sosend(d3942000,c68faa00,f6b96be8,0,0,...) at sosend+0x3f > kern_sendit(cd465230,f,f6b96c64,0,0,...) at kern_sendit+0x106 > sendit(0,871b9fe,0,c68faa00,1c,...) at sendit+0x182 > sendto(cd465230,f6b96cfc,18,cd465230,c072bab8,...) at sendto+0x4f > syscall(f6b96d38) at syscall+0x293 > > Note that I do not use IPv6, none of my network interfaces is configured for > it. Dear Norbert, Thanks for this report -- the additional WITNESS debugging information is very helpful, and the above warning may well be the source of the problem you're experiencing. To clarify what you're seeing a bit: some applications that are adapted to use both IPv4 and IPv6 open combined v4/v6 sockets. This is possible because there is a section of the IPv6 address space that "contains" the v4 address space. When an application sends to a v4 address using a v6 socket (wave hands here) the kernel actually calls the v4 UDP code from within the v6 socket code, and it turns out there's a locking bug in that path. So likely some application you are running is using this compatibility mode, and hence triggering this bug. I need to think for a bit about the best way to fix it (it's easy to hack around, but obviously "hacking around" is not the desired solution), and I'll get back to you later this week with a patch. For my reference, it would probably be helpful to know what the application is, since apparently this didn't arise in our testing. You can type "show pcpu" at the DDB prompt after this panic to show what thread is currently running. Thanks, Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge > > Also, since I enabled WITNESS, I get the following logged during system > startup: > > Enabling pf. > lock order reversal: > 1st 0xc09af92c pf task mtx (pf task mtx) > @ /usr/src/sys/modules/pf/../../contri > b/pf/net/pf_ioctl.c:1394 > 2nd 0xc07b4d68 ifnet (ifnet) @ /usr/src/sys/net/if.c:1558 > KDB: stack backtrace: > db_trace_self_wrapper(c06fda7c,f4914a60,c0552c75,c06fed11,c07b4d68,...) at > db_tr > ace_self_wrapper+0x26 > kdb_backtrace(c06fed11,c07b4d68,c0703ca2,c0703ca2,c0703c73,...) at > kdb_backtrace > +0x29 > witness_checkorder(c07b4d68,9,c0703c73,616,572,...) at > witness_checkorder+0x5e5 > _mtx_lock_flags(c07b4d68,0,c0703c73,616,c0104414,...) at _mtx_lock_flags+0x34 > ifunit(c6ef5c20,0,c09adfb5,572,c0703a71,...) at ifunit+0x2f > pfioctl(c566ce00,c0104414,c6ef5c20,3,c60c38c0,...) at pfioctl+0x2b43 > devfs_ioctl_f(c588bb94,c0104414,c6ef5c20,c54bb900,c60c38c0,...) at > devfs_ioctl_f > +0xe6 > kern_ioctl(c60c38c0,3,c0104414,c6ef5c20,1000000,...) at kern_ioctl+0x243 > ioctl(c60c38c0,f4914cfc,c,c0718d59,c072b350,...) at ioctl+0x134 > syscall(f4914d38) at syscall+0x293 > Xint0x80_syscall() at Xint0x80_syscall+0x20 > --- syscall (54, FreeBSD ELF32, ioctl), eip = 0x281ab6f3, esp = 0xbfbfde3c, > ebp > = 0xbfbfde68 --- > pf enabled > > > I tried to unload 'pf' to see if it was the culprit. However, even without pf > loaded, I experience the panic. > > Is there anything else I can try to provide better insight into what might be > going on? > > Cheers, > > -- Norbert. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 11:30:47 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFE8E106568A for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:30:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Received: from woozle.rinet.ru (woozle.rinet.ru [195.54.192.68]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C2B78FC21 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:30:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by woozle.rinet.ru (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8HBUjet064392 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 15:30:45 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 15:30:45 +0400 (MSD) From: Dmitry Morozovsky To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) X-NCC-RegID: ru.rinet X-OpenPGP-Key-ID: 6B691B03 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (woozle.rinet.ru [0.0.0.0]); Wed, 17 Sep 2008 15:30:45 +0400 (MSD) Cc: Subject: Supermicro PDSMI failed to boot on fresh RELENG_7/amd64 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:30:48 -0000 Colleagues, 3 of 4 times this machine failed to boot, panicing somewhere in late kernel initialization phase (before /sbin/init is executed) I have serial console and KDB enabled, so can do experiments. Last two crashes: Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual address = 0x8 fault code = supervisor read data, page not present instruction pointer = 0x8:0xffffffff8026978a stack pointer = 0x10:0xffffffff80611810 frame pointer = 0x10:0xffffffff80611830 code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b = DPL 0, pres 1, long 1, def32 0, gran 1 processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 current process = 0 (swapper) [thread pid 0 tid 0 ] Stopped at kobj_lookup_method_mi+0xa: movq 0x8(%rdi),%rax db> bt Tracing pid 0 tid 0 td 0xffffffff80544000 kobj_lookup_method_mi() at kobj_lookup_method_mi+0xa kobj_lookup_method() at kobj_lookup_method+0x1f acpi_wake_sysctl_walk() at acpi_wake_sysctl_walk+0xc1 acpi_wake_sysctl_walk() at acpi_wake_sysctl_walk+0x74 acpi_wake_sysctl_walk() at acpi_wake_sysctl_walk+0x74 acpi_wake_sysctl_walk() at acpi_wake_sysctl_walk+0x74 acpi_wake_sysctl_walk() at acpi_wake_sysctl_walk+0x74 acpi_wake_sysctl_walk() at acpi_wake_sysctl_walk+0x74 acpi_attach() at acpi_attach+0x984 device_attach() at device_attach+0x69 bus_generic_attach() at bus_generic_attach+0x1a nexus_attach() at nexus_attach+0x19 device_attach() at device_attach+0x69 root_bus_configure() at root_bus_configure+0x28 configure() at configure+0xa mi_startup() at mi_startup+0x59 btext() at btext+0x2c Fatal trap 9: general protection fault while in kernel mode instruction pointer = 0x8:0xffffffff8016f8a1 stack pointer = 0x10:0xffffffff80611850 frame pointer = 0x10:0xffffffff806118d0 code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b = DPL 0, pres 1, long 1, def32 0, gran 1 processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 current process = 0 (swapper) [thread pid 0 tid 0 ] Stopped at acpi_wake_sysctl_walk+0xa1: cmpq $0x804f8420,(%rax) db> bt Tracing pid 0 tid 0 td 0xffffffff80544000 acpi_wake_sysctl_walk() at acpi_wake_sysctl_walk+0xa1 acpi_wake_sysctl_walk() at acpi_wake_sysctl_walk+0x74 acpi_wake_sysctl_walk() at acpi_wake_sysctl_walk+0x74 acpi_wake_sysctl_walk() at acpi_wake_sysctl_walk+0x74 acpi_wake_sysctl_walk() at acpi_wake_sysctl_walk+0x74 acpi_wake_sysctl_walk() at acpi_wake_sysctl_walk+0x74 acpi_attach() at acpi_attach+0x984 device_attach() at device_attach+0x69 bus_generic_attach() at bus_generic_attach+0x1a nexus_attach() at nexus_attach+0x19 device_attach() at device_attach+0x69 root_bus_configure() at root_bus_configure+0x28 configure() at configure+0xa mi_startup() at mi_startup+0x59 btext() at btext+0x2c Sincerely, D.Marck [DM5020, MCK-RIPE, DM3-RIPN] [ FreeBSD committer: marck@FreeBSD.org ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** Dmitry Morozovsky --- D.Marck --- Wild Woozle --- marck@rinet.ru *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 11:47:21 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FC67106566B for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:47:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (unknown [IPv6:2a01:170:102f::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAD3B8FC23 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:47:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id m8HBlIVm082371; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:47:19 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id m8HBlI7F082370; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:47:18 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from olli) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:47:18 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <200809171147.m8HBlI7F082370@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-stable User-Agent: tin/1.8.3-20070201 ("Scotasay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/6.4-PRERELEASE-20080904 (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:47:19 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Subject: ACPI "blacklist" question X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:47:21 -0000 Hello, I have recently updated a machine to 7-stable. ACPI doesn't seem to work correctly on this machine. With earlier versions of FreeBSD (including the latest RELENG_6), I got this line in dmesg: ACPI disabled by blacklist. Contact your BIOS vendor. And everything was fine. The box runs perfectly well with ACPI disabled. (I can't get a BIOS update because the mainboard is too old.) When I updated to RELENG_7 a few days ago, the above line did _not_ appear anymore, and the machine didn't proceed to boot, so I had to travel to the console. :-( After disabling ACPI manually via boot.conf hint, it is up and running fine again. Now i'm wondering: Has the ACPI blacklist been removed intentionally, or is this a regression? Certainly I did not find any mentioning of it in UPDATING or anywhere else. Best regards Oliver PS: This is a Gigabyte GA-6BXD board with two Celeron-466 processors on it. Apart from not wanting ACPI it is rock- solid, and I expect it to be in production for DNS, packet filtering, mail backup and small web server for at least another 10 years. -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "anyone new to programming should be kept as far from C++ as possible; actually showing the stuff should be considered a criminal offence" -- Jacek Generowicz From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 12:14:42 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB2A11065672 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:14:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sclark46@earthlink.net) Received: from elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.65]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AE398FC36 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:14:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sclark46@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=p4GU8qmdqNFFWTTrcOFg2+R7DfisbdAiR8veDjSAGzgIi3ASf6qUfBavRcMcotC/; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [24.144.77.185] (helo=joker.seclark.com) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KfvKx-0001JZ-MM for freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 07:36:47 -0400 Message-ID: <48D0EBCE.9030503@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 07:36:46 -0400 From: Stephen Clark User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (X11/20080723) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Stable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: a437fbc6971e80f61aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79e15d7c93253b5a0f80d91afb9b1d65fe350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 24.144.77.185 Subject: 6.3 reboot -d doesn't work X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: sclark46@earthlink.net List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:14:42 -0000 Hello List, I am trying to get a crash dump but am unable to with FreeBSD 6.3-RELEASE-p2 /etc/defaults/rc.conf dumpdir="/var/crash" # Directory where crash dumps are to be stored savecore_flags="" # Used if dumpdev is enabled above, and present. Z2873# sysctl -a |grep physmem hw.physmem: 259481600 Swap: 1024M Total, 1024M Free Z2873# dumpon -v /dev/ad0s1b kernel dumps on /dev/ad0s1b reboot -d ... dumping 255M 2 chunks Then nothing - the system doesn't reboot and I have to hard reset it. When it comes back up there is no crash file in /var/crash from /var/log/messages: Sep 17 07:28:12 Z2873 kernel: ad0: 28615MB at ata0-master UDMA66 Sep 17 07:28:12 Z2873 kernel: Trying to mount root from ufs:/dev/ad0s1a Sep 17 07:28:12 Z2873 savecore: no dumps found Is this broken? Thanks, Steve -- "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Ben Franklin) "The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases." (Thomas Jefferson) From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 15:04:38 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1264B1065682 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 15:04:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from talon@lpthe.jussieu.fr) Received: from shiva.jussieu.fr (shiva.jussieu.fr [134.157.0.129]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99A408FC15 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 15:04:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from talon@lpthe.jussieu.fr) Received: from parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.1]) by shiva.jussieu.fr (8.14.3/jtpda-5.4) with ESMTP id m8HF4YcT087565 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:04:35 +0200 (CEST) X-Ids: 164 Received: from niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.41]) by parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id B23E189D68 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:04:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: by niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Postfix, from userid 2005) id 957B210B; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:04:33 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:04:33 +0200 From: Michel Talon To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <20080917150433.GA3585@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Mail-Followup-To: Michel Talon , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.3/8270/Wed Sep 17 15:15:56 2008 on shiva.jussieu.fr X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Miltered: at jchkmail2.jussieu.fr with ID 48D10085.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 48D10085.001/134.157.10.1/parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr/parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 48D10085.001 on jchkmail2.jussieu.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.047 -> S=0.047 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Cc: Subject: floppy disk controller broken X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 15:04:38 -0000 Hello, when testing FreeBSD-7.1-BETA i discovered that the floppy disk controller doesn't work correctly. Trying to format a floppy (perhaps with bad blocks) i get: Processing fdformat: ioctl(FD_FORM): Device not configured instead of the normal E letter. I then checked the same problem is present on FreeBSD-6.3 and it has been reported by Beech Rintoul (*) in 2006! Of course the floppy disk driver is particularly messy, but this is not pretty. (*) i386/103862: Error with fdformat -- Michel TALON From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 15:12:07 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F05E1065670; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 15:12:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd-ml@scrapper.ca) Received: from idcmail-mo2no.shaw.ca (idcmail-mo2no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.9]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A8288FC1A; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 15:12:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd-ml@scrapper.ca) Received: from pd6ml1no-ssvc.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.153.160]) by pd5mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca with ESMTP; 17 Sep 2008 09:12:06 -0600 X-Cloudmark-SP-Filtered: true X-Cloudmark-SP-Result: v=1.0 c=0 a=JW3AWFW-Re_nHgVHTgcA:9 a=NXKziLqQlZMaNGzEdG4A:7 a=3lBR57Q6_UQEP36Vgd7-vqfOdbYA:4 a=1jPFEaVNb5QA:10 a=g1R10qNEJU8A:10 Received: from s010600121729c74c.vc.shawcable.net (HELO proven.lan) ([24.85.241.34]) by pd6ml1no-dmz.prod.shaw.ca with ESMTP; 17 Sep 2008 09:12:06 -0600 Received: from proven.lan (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by proven.lan (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id m8HFC5qW084378; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 08:12:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fbsd-ml@scrapper.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by proven.lan (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id m8HFC5fV084377; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 08:12:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fbsd-ml@scrapper.ca) X-Authentication-Warning: proven.lan: npapke set sender to fbsd-ml@scrapper.ca using -f From: Norbert Papke Organization: Archaeological Filing To: Robert Watson Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 08:12:04 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.10 References: <200809141219.24943.fbsd-ml@scrapper.ca> <200809151813.58749.fbsd-ml@scrapper.ca> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200809170812.05338.fbsd-ml@scrapper.ca> Cc: Gavin Atkinson , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Possible UDP related deadlock in 7.1-PRERELEASE X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 15:12:07 -0000 On September 17, 2008, Robert Watson wrote: > On Mon, 15 Sep 2008, Norbert Papke wrote: > > With WITNESS enabled, I now experience panics and could not follow your > > instructions. There is no core dump. The following gets logged to > > /var/log/messages: > > > > shared lock of (rw) udpinp @ /usr/src/sys/netinet/udp_usrreq.c:864 > > while exclusively locked from /usr/src/sys/netinet6/udp6_usrreq.c:940 > > panic: share->excl > > KDB: stack backtrace: > > db_trace_self_wrapper(c06fda7c,f6b96978,c052046a,c06fbb5d,c07695c0,...) > > at db_trace_self_wrapper+0x26 > > kdb_backtrace(c06fbb5d,c07695c0,c06febd1,f6b96984,f6b96984,...) at > > kdb_backtrace+0x29 > > panic(c06febd1,c070c409,3ac,c0709eee,360,...) at panic+0xaa > > witness_checkorder(ccd5209c,1,c0709eee,360,8,...) at > > witness_checkorder+0x17c > > _rw_rlock(ccd5209c,c0709eee,360,c07780e0,cd4652c8,...) at _rw_rlock+0x2a > > udp_send(d3942000,0,c580f400,c68faa00,0,...) at udp_send+0x197 > > udp6_send(d3942000,0,c580f400,c68faa00,0,...) at udp6_send+0x140 > > sosend_generic(d3942000,c68faa00,f6b96be8,0,0,...) at > > sosend_generic+0x50d sosend(d3942000,c68faa00,f6b96be8,0,0,...) at > > sosend+0x3f > > kern_sendit(cd465230,f,f6b96c64,0,0,...) at kern_sendit+0x106 > > sendit(0,871b9fe,0,c68faa00,1c,...) at sendit+0x182 > > sendto(cd465230,f6b96cfc,18,cd465230,c072bab8,...) at sendto+0x4f > > syscall(f6b96d38) at syscall+0x293 > > > > Note that I do not use IPv6, none of my network interfaces is configured > > for it. > To clarify what you're seeing a bit: some applications that are adapted to > use both IPv4 and IPv6 open combined v4/v6 sockets. This is possible > because there is a section of the IPv6 address space that "contains" the v4 > address space. When an application sends to a v4 address using a v6 socket > (wave hands here) the kernel actually calls the v4 UDP code from within the > v6 socket code, and it turns out there's a locking bug in that path. So > likely some application you are running is using this compatibility mode, > and hence triggering this bug. Thank you for this explanation. It helps my peace of mind to understand the context. > I need to think for a bit about the best way to fix it (it's easy to hack > around, but obviously "hacking around" is not the desired solution), and > I'll get back to you later this week with a patch. I am certainly happy to try a patch when it becomes available. > For my reference, it would probably be helpful to know what the application > is, since apparently this didn't arise in our testing. You can type "show > pcpu" at the DDB prompt after this panic to show what thread is currently > running. This may be difficult. I was not entirely clear in my description of the panic. I experience spontaneous reboots when the panic is occurs. DDB is not invoked, nor is a core generated. My suspicion is that "ktorrent", the KDE3 torrent client, is triggering this condition. When I broke into DDB with a non-WITNESS kernel, I observed that one of the "ktorrent" threads was locked on "*udpinp". Additionally, "hald", "ntpd" and the NIC interrupt thread had "*udp" locked. Not sure if this is information is helpful. Cheers, -- Norbert. From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 16:07:53 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44F8D106564A for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:07:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Received: from woozle.rinet.ru (woozle.rinet.ru [195.54.192.68]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD1A58FC18 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:07:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by woozle.rinet.ru (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8HG7pQd070832 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:07:51 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:07:51 +0400 (MSD) From: Dmitry Morozovsky To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) X-NCC-RegID: ru.rinet X-OpenPGP-Key-ID: 6B691B03 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (woozle.rinet.ru [0.0.0.0]); Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:07:51 +0400 (MSD) Subject: Re: Supermicro PDSMI failed to boot on fresh RELENG_7/amd64 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:07:53 -0000 On Wed, 17 Sep 2008, Dmitry Morozovsky wrote: DM> Colleagues, DM> DM> 3 of 4 times this machine failed to boot, panicing somewhere in late kernel DM> initialization phase (before /sbin/init is executed) DM> DM> I have serial console and KDB enabled, so can do experiments. Update: booting GENERIC in single user succeeds, but then after pressing ^D machine stucks running sh very slowly: # ^Dload: 0.56 cmd: sh 57 [runnable] 0.90u 2.72s 18% 1760k load: 0.62 cmd: sh 57 [runnable] 1.41u 5.93s 28% 1760k load: 0.65 cmd: sh 57 [runnable] 1.81u 8.80s 32% 1760k load: 0.99 cmd: ps 61 [runnable] 11.44u 106.73s 36% 1124k load: 0.99 cmd: sh 57 [runnable] 3.63u 24.01s 3% 1760k Loading configuration files. load: 0.99 cmd: sh 57 [runnable] 12.58u 95.10s 37% 1884k (these lines consume 5-10 minutes...) Sincerely, D.Marck [DM5020, MCK-RIPE, DM3-RIPN] [ FreeBSD committer: marck@FreeBSD.org ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** Dmitry Morozovsky --- D.Marck --- Wild Woozle --- marck@rinet.ru *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 16:23:45 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E46141065677 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:23:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from QMTA04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F4468FC1A for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:23:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from OMTA11.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.36]) by QMTA04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id Fs5g1a0050mv7h054sPkPl; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:23:44 +0000 Received: from koitsu.dyndns.org ([67.180.253.227]) by OMTA11.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id FsPj1a00D4v8bD73XsPjqx; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:23:44 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=CnICaSuMnq8A:10 a=mETQX8f6ImQA:10 a=QycZ5dHgAAAA:8 a=YQsADPkfRs3PB76cnvMA:9 a=DBUAO7jvFopPVAWVS0bgwTNo2DUA:4 a=EoioJ0NPDVgA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 Received: by icarus.home.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B4D5A17B822; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:23:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:23:42 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Dmitry Morozovsky Message-ID: <20080917162342.GA95431@icarus.home.lan> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Supermicro PDSMI failed to boot on fresh RELENG_7/amd64 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:23:46 -0000 On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 03:30:45PM +0400, Dmitry Morozovsky wrote: > Colleagues, > > 3 of 4 times this machine failed to boot, panicing somewhere in late kernel > initialization phase (before /sbin/init is executed) > > {snip} We have many (specifically, 6) PDSMI+ (not PDSMI) boxes which do not exhibit this problem. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 16:25:41 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D0F3106564A for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:25:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from QMTA10.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta10.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.17]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F1328FC13 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:25:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from OMTA01.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.11]) by QMTA10.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id Fs4f1a01b0EZKEL5AsRe4W; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:25:38 +0000 Received: from koitsu.dyndns.org ([67.180.253.227]) by OMTA01.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id FsRd1a00Y4v8bD73MsRe87; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:25:38 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=QycZ5dHgAAAA:8 a=dHXwCAxPUx6gRrN_76gA:9 a=Mq0AV_DmAACENhIdTgUA:7 a=X1pRQMuGILI79Mu8DBhHahzUh78A:4 a=EoioJ0NPDVgA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 Received: by icarus.home.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id BB1B317B81A; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:25:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:25:37 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Stephen Clark Message-ID: <20080917162537.GB95431@icarus.home.lan> References: <48D0EBCE.9030503@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <48D0EBCE.9030503@earthlink.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: FreeBSD Stable Subject: Re: 6.3 reboot -d doesn't work X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:25:41 -0000 On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 07:36:46AM -0400, Stephen Clark wrote: > I am trying to get a crash dump but am unable to with FreeBSD 6.3-RELEASE-p2 > > /etc/defaults/rc.conf > dumpdir="/var/crash" # Directory where crash dumps are to be stored > savecore_flags="" # Used if dumpdev is enabled above, and present. > > Z2873# sysctl -a |grep physmem > hw.physmem: 259481600 > Swap: 1024M Total, 1024M Free > Z2873# dumpon -v /dev/ad0s1b > kernel dumps on /dev/ad0s1b > > reboot -d > ... > dumping 255M 2 chunks > > > Then nothing - the system doesn't reboot and I have to hard reset it. > When it comes back up there is no crash file in /var/crash > > from /var/log/messages: > Sep 17 07:28:12 Z2873 kernel: ad0: 28615MB at > ata0-master UDMA66 > Sep 17 07:28:12 Z2873 kernel: Trying to mount root from ufs:/dev/ad0s1a > Sep 17 07:28:12 Z2873 savecore: no dumps found > > Is this broken? It's a known problem. If when the machine reboots, you forcefully enter single-user, you should be able to get the kernel dump using savecore. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=conf/118255 -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 17:25:54 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3EE41065673; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:25:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emaste@freebsd.org) Received: from gw.sandvine.com (gw.sandvine.com [199.243.201.138]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A04D8FC12; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:25:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emaste@freebsd.org) Received: from labgw2.phaedrus.sandvine.com ([192.168.3.11]) by gw.sandvine.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:03:46 -0400 Received: by labgw2.phaedrus.sandvine.com (Postfix, from userid 12627) id 82D101160E; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:03:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:03:46 -0400 From: Ed Maste To: Jeremy Chadwick Message-ID: <20080917170346.GA49607@sandvine.com> References: <48D0EBCE.9030503@earthlink.net> <20080917162537.GB95431@icarus.home.lan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080917162537.GB95431@icarus.home.lan> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Sep 2008 17:03:46.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[58F8C460:01C918E7] Cc: Stephen Clark , FreeBSD Stable Subject: Re: 6.3 reboot -d doesn't work X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:25:54 -0000 On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 09:25:37AM -0700, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 07:36:46AM -0400, Stephen Clark wrote: > > I am trying to get a crash dump but am unable to with FreeBSD 6.3-RELEASE-p2 > > > > [...] > > reboot -d > > ... > > dumping 255M 2 chunks > > > > > > Then nothing - the system doesn't reboot and I have to hard reset it. > > When it comes back up there is no crash file in /var/crash > > [...] > > It's a known problem. If when the machine reboots, you forcefully enter > single-user, you should be able to get the kernel dump using savecore. > > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=conf/118255 Your PR doesn't look like Stephen's problem to me, since according to his description the system hangs when trying to do the dump so there won't be anything on the disk for savecore to save. - Ed From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 17:43:38 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB2191065767 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:43:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from server.baldwin.cx (bigknife-pt.tunnel.tserv9.chi1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f10:75::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A8FE8FC14 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:43:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from localhost.corp.yahoo.com (john@localhost [IPv6:::1]) (authenticated bits=0) by server.baldwin.cx (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8HHhL6I007809; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:43:27 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:37:32 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <48CD1C54.7040208@incunabulum.net> <200809131109.06694.jhb@freebsd.org> <200809170258.m8H2wsrO064420@pf2.ed.niigata-u.ac.jp> In-Reply-To: <200809170258.m8H2wsrO064420@pf2.ed.niigata-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200809171137.32759.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (server.baldwin.cx [IPv6:::1]); Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:43:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.1/8270/Wed Sep 17 09:15:56 2008 on server.baldwin.cx X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=4.2 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,NO_RELAYS autolearn=ham version=3.1.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on server.baldwin.cx Cc: KAHO Toshikazu Subject: Re: alpm(4) I/O range is claimed by ACPI X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:43:38 -0000 On Tuesday 16 September 2008 10:58:54 pm KAHO Toshikazu wrote: > Hello, > > I am sorry to mistake copying message-id and break mail thread. > > >> I tried looking for this device in the DSDT, I don't see anything which > >> obviously resembles it. The equivalent Linux driver has a means of > >> forcing the mapping to be set up if it isn't available: > >> http://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/i2c/busses/i2c-ali15x3 > >> > >> It looks like there used to be a means of doing this in the FreeBSD > >> driver but it got nuked. And that ASUS didn't much care about power > >> management support in this machine... > > > >If you can re-enable it in such a way that it uses bus_alloc_resource(), then > >the driver will probably work fine. > > How to re-enable it? Please give me some points. PCIR_BAR is always 0, > even if any values are written by pciconf. Well, bus_alloc_resource() will allocate resources for the BAR and update the BAR for you, the question is if you need to hardcode the range to bus_alloc_resource() or not. -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 17:43:44 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 773AA1065715 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:43:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from server.baldwin.cx (bigknife-pt.tunnel.tserv9.chi1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f10:75::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEC318FC23 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:43:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from localhost.corp.yahoo.com (john@localhost [IPv6:::1]) (authenticated bits=0) by server.baldwin.cx (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8HHhL6J007809; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:43:37 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:44:48 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <200809171147.m8HBlI7F082370@lurza.secnetix.de> In-Reply-To: <200809171147.m8HBlI7F082370@lurza.secnetix.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200809171144.48424.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (server.baldwin.cx [IPv6:::1]); Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:43:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.1/8270/Wed Sep 17 09:15:56 2008 on server.baldwin.cx X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=4.2 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,NO_RELAYS autolearn=ham version=3.1.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on server.baldwin.cx Cc: Oliver Fromme Subject: Re: ACPI "blacklist" question X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:43:44 -0000 On Wednesday 17 September 2008 07:47:18 am Oliver Fromme wrote: > Hello, > > I have recently updated a machine to 7-stable. > ACPI doesn't seem to work correctly on this machine. > With earlier versions of FreeBSD (including the latest > RELENG_6), I got this line in dmesg: > > ACPI disabled by blacklist. Contact your BIOS vendor. > > And everything was fine. The box runs perfectly well > with ACPI disabled. (I can't get a BIOS update because > the mainboard is too old.) > > When I updated to RELENG_7 a few days ago, the above line > did _not_ appear anymore, and the machine didn't proceed > to boot, so I had to travel to the console. :-( > After disabling ACPI manually via boot.conf hint, it is > up and running fine again. > > Now i'm wondering: Has the ACPI blacklist been removed > intentionally, or is this a regression? Certainly I did > not find any mentioning of it in UPDATING or anywhere > else. This is a regression. Try this fix: Index: acpi_quirk.c =================================================================== --- acpi_quirk.c (revision 183112) +++ acpi_quirk.c (working copy) @@ -149,9 +149,9 @@ if (ACPI_FAILURE(AcpiGetTableHeader(ACPI_SIG_FADT, 0, &fadt))) bzero(&fadt, sizeof(fadt)); if (ACPI_FAILURE(AcpiGetTableHeader(ACPI_SIG_DSDT, 0, &dsdt))) - bzero(&fadt, sizeof(dsdt)); + bzero(&dsdt, sizeof(dsdt)); if (ACPI_FAILURE(AcpiGetTableHeader(ACPI_SIG_XSDT, 0, &xsdt))) - bzero(&fadt, sizeof(xsdt)); + bzero(&xsdt, sizeof(xsdt)); /* Then, override the quirks with any matched from table signatures. */ for (entry = acpi_quirks_table; entry->match; entry++) { -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 18:54:39 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2F3B1065673; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 18:54:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (unknown [IPv6:2a01:170:102f::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25AC88FC13; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 18:54:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id m8HIsarW000123; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:54:37 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id m8HIsanu000121; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:54:36 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from olli) From: Oliver Fromme Message-Id: <200809171854.m8HIsanu000121@lurza.secnetix.de> To: jhb@freebsd.org (John Baldwin) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:54:36 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <200809171144.48424.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:54:37 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ACPI "blacklist" question X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 18:54:39 -0000 John Baldwin wrote: > Oliver Fromme wrote: > > [...] > > Now i'm wondering: Has the ACPI blacklist been removed > > intentionally, or is this a regression? Certainly I did > > not find any mentioning of it in UPDATING or anywhere > > else. > > This is a regression. Try this fix: > > Index: acpi_quirk.c > =================================================================== > --- acpi_quirk.c (revision 183112) > +++ acpi_quirk.c (working copy) > @@ -149,9 +149,9 @@ > if (ACPI_FAILURE(AcpiGetTableHeader(ACPI_SIG_FADT, 0, &fadt))) > bzero(&fadt, sizeof(fadt)); > if (ACPI_FAILURE(AcpiGetTableHeader(ACPI_SIG_DSDT, 0, &dsdt))) > - bzero(&fadt, sizeof(dsdt)); > + bzero(&dsdt, sizeof(dsdt)); > if (ACPI_FAILURE(AcpiGetTableHeader(ACPI_SIG_XSDT, 0, &xsdt))) > - bzero(&fadt, sizeof(xsdt)); > + bzero(&xsdt, sizeof(xsdt)); > > /* Then, override the quirks with any matched from table signatures. */ > for (entry = acpi_quirks_table; entry->match; entry++) { > Thanks for the quick reply. I will try this on Friday when I'm near the console. I'm a little reluctant to try it remotely. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "The ITU has offered the IETF formal alignment with its corresponding technology, Penguins, but that won't fly." -- RFC 2549 From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 19:02:35 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9C31106566C for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 19:02:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aragon@phat.za.net) Received: from mail.geek.sh (decoder.geek.sh [196.36.198.81]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69A908FC12 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 19:02:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aragon@phat.za.net) Received: by mail.geek.sh (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E35A124D22; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:02:33 +0200 (SAST) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:02:33 +0200 From: Aragon Gouveia To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080917190233.GA60386@phat.za.net> References: <20080916213322.GA70196@phat.za.net> <20080917042426.GA81776@icarus.home.lan> <20080917050330.GB62255@shell.unixguru.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080917050330.GB62255@shell.unixguru.nl> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.10-RELEASE-p2 i386 Subject: Re: Keyspan USB serial adapter X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 19:02:35 -0000 | By Richard Arends | [ 2008-09-17 07:05 +0200 ] > On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 09:24:26PM -0700, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > > > Since you're still in the market: I've heard wonderful things about any > > of the USB serial adapters that use the Prolific chip; see uplcom(4). > > I can second that. I use a Sitecom CN-104 (also Prolific) with several > devices like Sun hardware and Soekris/Wrap systems boards and it al works > perfectly (FreeBSD/Linux and Windows). Thanks. I decided to not take a chance and ordered a Prolific based Iogear adapter. :) Thanks, Aragon (who wishes laptops still had com ports) From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 20:28:50 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C44571065672 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:28:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from QMTA10.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta10.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.17]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56B358FC1A for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:28:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from OMTA04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.35]) by QMTA10.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id Fs4f1a0080ldTLk5AwUpM6; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:28:49 +0000 Received: from koitsu.dyndns.org ([67.180.253.227]) by OMTA04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id FwUo1a00H4v8bD73QwUpAc; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:28:49 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=QycZ5dHgAAAA:8 a=QkXzDrG-IW0L8pKVMhEA:9 a=niBRHiarNCMcjAQuibwA:7 a=S3nhuk1_O26MVsRvcOScJvI59eIA:4 a=EoioJ0NPDVgA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 Received: by icarus.home.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5FB3917B81A; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:28:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:28:48 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Ed Maste Message-ID: <20080917202848.GA99931@icarus.home.lan> References: <48D0EBCE.9030503@earthlink.net> <20080917162537.GB95431@icarus.home.lan> <20080917170346.GA49607@sandvine.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080917170346.GA49607@sandvine.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: Stephen Clark , FreeBSD Stable Subject: Re: 6.3 reboot -d doesn't work X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:28:50 -0000 On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 01:03:46PM -0400, Ed Maste wrote: > On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 09:25:37AM -0700, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > > > On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 07:36:46AM -0400, Stephen Clark wrote: > > > I am trying to get a crash dump but am unable to with FreeBSD 6.3-RELEASE-p2 > > > > > > [...] > > > reboot -d > > > ... > > > dumping 255M 2 chunks > > > > > > > > > Then nothing - the system doesn't reboot and I have to hard reset it. > > > When it comes back up there is no crash file in /var/crash > > > [...] > > > > It's a known problem. If when the machine reboots, you forcefully enter > > single-user, you should be able to get the kernel dump using savecore. > > > > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=conf/118255 > > Your PR doesn't look like Stephen's problem to me, since according to > his description the system hangs when trying to do the dump so there > won't be anything on the disk for savecore to save. You're right, thanks Ed. His "when it comes back up there is no crash file" is what threw me for a loop. Stephen, does the problem *only* happen when using the -d flag, or does the system lock up on reboot in general? If the latter, try using one or both of the following sysctls: hw.acpi.handle_reboot=1 hw.acpi.disable_on_reboot=1 If the lesser, I've no idea. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 21:18:32 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B931106566C for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:18:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nox@saturn.kn-bremen.de) Received: from gwyn.kn-bremen.de (gwyn.kn-bremen.de [212.63.36.242]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 170008FC19 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:18:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nox@saturn.kn-bremen.de) Received: by gwyn.kn-bremen.de (Postfix, from userid 10) id 32339191A3D; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 22:49:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from saturn.kn-bremen.de (noident@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by saturn.kn-bremen.de (8.14.2/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m8HKf868011656 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 22:41:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from nox@saturn.kn-bremen.de) Received: (from nox@localhost) by saturn.kn-bremen.de (8.14.2/8.13.6/Submit) id m8HKf7EF011655 for freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 22:41:07 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from nox) From: Juergen Lock Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 22:41:07 +0200 To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20080917204107.GA11167@saturn.kn-bremen.de> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2007-11-01) Cc: Subject: dtrace: processing aborted: Abort due to systemic unresponsiveness (dtrace_gethrtime()?) - and kgdb X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:18:32 -0000 Hi! I got curious in dtrace, and after mr's sys/amd64/amd64/trap.c commit (r183050, thanx! :) I was able to build a kernel that could kldload dtraceall on 7-stable amd64, but trying even simple things like dtrace -n tick-1sec only runs for a short time, or not at all, ending with $subject: # dtrace -n tick-1sec dtrace: description 'tick-1sec' matched 1 probe dtrace: buffer size lowered to 2m CPU ID FUNCTION:NAME 1 32125 :tick-1sec dtrace: processing aborted: Abort due to systemic unresponsiveness # dtrace -n tick-1sec dtrace: description 'tick-1sec' matched 1 probe dtrace: buffer size lowered to 2m dtrace: processing aborted: Abort due to systemic unresponsiveness # Looking around on the net I find that this is probably related to dtrace_gethrtime() (this box is SMP), which I see defined in sys/amd64/amd64/tsc.c, but also in sys/cddl/dev/dtrace/amd64/dtrace_subr.c, and in sys/cddl/dev/dtrace/i386/dtrace_subr.c, but nowhere under sys/i386. The versions in sys/cddl/dev/dtrace take cpu-dependent tsc offsets into account which the one in sys/amd64/amd64/tsc.c doesn't, is there any particular reason this version is used? Also I don't see it in HEAD... Wondering, Juergen PS: I also found out that kgdb doesn't seem to like dtrace bits in the kernel, backtraces look like from a kernel without debug symbols, even if I don't use dtrace or even kldload it. From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 21:18:45 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B88E21065683 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:18:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from server.baldwin.cx (bigknife-pt.tunnel.tserv9.chi1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f10:75::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EC938FC19 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:18:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from localhost.corp.yahoo.com (john@localhost [IPv6:::1]) (authenticated bits=0) by server.baldwin.cx (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8HLIL9x009566; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:18:39 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:13:39 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <20080917150433.GA3585@lpthe.jussieu.fr> In-Reply-To: <20080917150433.GA3585@lpthe.jussieu.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200809171713.39694.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (server.baldwin.cx [IPv6:::1]); Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:18:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.1/8271/Wed Sep 17 12:58:50 2008 on server.baldwin.cx X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.2 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,NO_RELAYS autolearn=ham version=3.1.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on server.baldwin.cx Cc: Michel Talon Subject: Re: floppy disk controller broken X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:18:45 -0000 On Wednesday 17 September 2008 11:04:33 am Michel Talon wrote: > Hello, > > when testing FreeBSD-7.1-BETA i discovered that the floppy disk > controller doesn't work correctly. Trying to format a floppy (perhaps > with bad blocks) i get: > Processing fdformat: ioctl(FD_FORM): Device not configured > instead of the normal E letter. I then checked the same problem is > present on FreeBSD-6.3 and it has been reported by Beech Rintoul (*) in > 2006! Of course the floppy disk driver is particularly messy, but > this is not pretty. > > (*) i386/103862: Error with fdformat It looks like the ioctl to format a track used to never report failures from the controller. The newer driver does. What I've done with fdformat is to make it just ignore the errors in userland instead. Try this: Index: fdformat.c =================================================================== --- fdformat.c (revision 183112) +++ fdformat.c (working copy) @@ -75,8 +75,7 @@ f.fd_formb_secno(i) = il[i+1]; f.fd_formb_secsize(i) = secsize; } - if(ioctl(fd, FD_FORM, (caddr_t)&f) < 0) - err(EX_OSERR, "ioctl(FD_FORM)"); + (void)ioctl(fd, FD_FORM, (caddr_t)&f); } static int -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 21:52:40 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE31D1065671 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:52:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from mail.netconsonance.com (mail.netconsonance.com [198.207.204.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEFA88FC0A for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:52:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from [10.66.240.106] (public-wireless.sv.svcolo.com [64.13.135.30]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netconsonance.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m8HLpgL5002099; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 14:51:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netconsonance.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.011 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.011 tagged_above=-999 required=3.5 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1.44, AWL=0.429] Message-Id: <78BA6D76-2667-44B3-BF21-0B940D3C6E13@netconsonance.com> From: Jo Rhett To: Mark Linimon In-Reply-To: <20080916065657.GB12295@soaustin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v928.1) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 14:51:36 -0700 References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <593618A3-56DA-4891-A4A0-690E9A9C5B32@netconsonance.com> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <48CF5282.10608@modulus.org> <20080916065657.GB12295@soaustin.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.928.1) Cc: freebsd-stable , Andrew Snow Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:52:41 -0000 > On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 04:30:26PM +1000, Andrew Snow wrote: >> I think FreeBSD is getting in a difficult position now because >> there's >> so much cool new stuff being shoe-horned in, but without the >> necessary >> volume of contributors to back it up with testing and bug fixes. On Sep 15, 2008, at 11:56 PM, Mark Linimon wrote: > We're interested in suggestions about how to get more people involved > with testing and bug fixes. > > There's certainly no lack of demand for the features -- all the way > from > running on inexpensive wireless routers all the way up to 'enterprise- > grade' distributed storage solutions. (These are real examples from > various mailing lists.) > > So, in your opinion, what's the way to reconcile all these demands > (features + stability + long-term support of release branches) with > a group that is 95%-plus volunteer effort? As I have said to you directly in personal e-mail, the maintenance schedule is creating a chicken and egg problem. If companies weren't forced to run internal distribution and release management on their own, they could allocate more resources (ie volunteers -- PAID ones!) to testing and release management of the main distribution. To speak personally from my own experience: our business can not afford to pay me to help develop a release effort with an unknown maintenance period (6.4-REL). Since we need to have a clear maintenance window for any installed/upgraded host, we are forced to provide that support internally. If we had known (and longer than 12 month) maintenance periods for a given release, then I could avoid maintaining this infrastructure internally and would have somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 hours a month I could dedicate to testing and bug fixes of FreeBSD as a whole. -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 21:57:59 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C9911065675 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:57:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from mail.netconsonance.com (mail.netconsonance.com [198.207.204.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B86C8FC1F for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:57:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from [10.66.240.106] (public-wireless.sv.svcolo.com [64.13.135.30]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netconsonance.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m8HLvWCx002251; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 14:57:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netconsonance.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.013 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.013 tagged_above=-999 required=3.5 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1.44, AWL=0.427] Message-Id: From: Jo Rhett To: Matthew Seaman In-Reply-To: <48CF6292.7050909@infracaninophile.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v928.1) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 14:57:26 -0700 References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <593618A3-56DA-4891-A4A0-690E9A9C5B32@netconsonance.com> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <48CF5282.10608@modulus.org> <20080916065657.GB12295@soaustin.net> <48CF6292.7050909@infracaninophile.co.uk> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.928.1) Cc: Mark Linimon , freebsd-stable , Andrew Snow Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:57:59 -0000 On Sep 16, 2008, at 12:38 AM, Matthew Seaman wrote: > On 'long term support of release branches' -- a volunteer project is > always > going to struggle to provide this without some form of income to > support the > necessary hardware and personnel resources needed. Or in other > words, if > FreeBSD users want the same sort of support structure as they can > get from a > commercial vendor, it's going to take a commercial vendor to supply > it. > > FreeBSD Corporation anyone? I disagree. The entire advantage of open source is the advantage provided by shared interest in a working product. Each party can put in a little and the product is improved for everyone. If we remove the factors that hamstring companies from providing more resources to assist, then you can get more resources working on the problem - to everyone's benefit. I'm not kidding when I say that nearly everyone I know who uses FreeBSD in their company spends a lot of time managing their internal distribution. (And every reply to this topic on this mailing list has echoed the exact same statement.) None of the ones I know personally have any interest in doing this, and would be happier focusing their effort on the mainstream release. A bunch of us made proposals to our $EMPLOYERs to make this happen, but there was no apparent interest from the release team so the effort was abandoned. -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 22:02:43 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB3551065670; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 22:02:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from mail.netconsonance.com (mail.netconsonance.com [198.207.204.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B82F18FC16; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 22:02:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from [10.66.240.106] (public-wireless.sv.svcolo.com [64.13.135.30]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netconsonance.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m8HM2Dbi002337; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 15:02:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netconsonance.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.014 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.014 tagged_above=-999 required=3.5 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1.44, AWL=0.426] Message-Id: <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> From: Jo Rhett To: Robert Watson In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v928.1) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 15:02:07 -0700 References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <593618A3-56DA-4891-A4A0-690E9A9C5B32@netconsonance.com> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.928.1) Cc: freebsd-stable , Wesley Shields , Nathan Way , Ben Kaduk Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 22:02:43 -0000 > On Mon, 15 Sep 2008, Jo Rhett wrote: >> Robert, I'd like to point out to you that when I complained about >> 6.2's accelerated EoL, I was soundly boxed around the ears and told >> that I should have been paying attention to the projected EoL date >> when we decided to roll out 6.2 across the business. >> >> Now you are saying that expected EoL will be determined at some >> random point in the future based on gut feelings about how well a >> completely different branch is doing. >> >> How can I reconcile these disparate points of view? How does one >> focus on testing and upgrade cycle for an "appropriately supported >> release" when the decision for the support cycle is completely up >> in the air? > On Sep 16, 2008, at 12:47 PM, Robert Watson wrote: > The FreeBSD Project, as with any other company or organization, > responds to events as they occur. We try to plan ahead, and when > things go better or worse than expected, we sometimes change the > plans. As far as I know we've never *shortened* the expected > support timeline for any branch or release, but we have on occasion > lenthened them when we feel it's important to do so. I'm not sure > what other answer is possible. No other answer. But nobody has yet provided what the EoL period is going to be. I have no problems with a period being extended ;-) But the business needs to know the minimum EoL for a given release to determine if upgrading to that release is viable. -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 17 23:33:48 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15F261065676; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 23:33:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3BCF8FC1E; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 23:33:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [65.122.17.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D46146B2E; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 19:33:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 00:33:47 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Jo Rhett In-Reply-To: <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> Message-ID: References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <593618A3-56DA-4891-A4A0-690E9A9C5B32@netconsonance.com> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> User-Agent: Alpine 1.10 (BSF 962 2008-03-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-stable , Wesley Shields , Nathan Way , Ben Kaduk Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 23:33:48 -0000 On Wed, 17 Sep 2008, Jo Rhett wrote: >> On Mon, 15 Sep 2008, Jo Rhett wrote: >>> Robert, I'd like to point out to you that when I complained about 6.2's >>> accelerated EoL, I was soundly boxed around the ears and told that I >>> should have been paying attention to the projected EoL date when we >>> decided to roll out 6.2 across the business. >>> >>> Now you are saying that expected EoL will be determined at some random >>> point in the future based on gut feelings about how well a completely >>> different branch is doing. >>> >>> How can I reconcile these disparate points of view? How does one focus on >>> testing and upgrade cycle for an "appropriately supported release" when >>> the decision for the support cycle is completely up in the air? >> > On Sep 16, 2008, at 12:47 PM, Robert Watson wrote: >> The FreeBSD Project, as with any other company or organization, responds to >> events as they occur. We try to plan ahead, and when things go better or >> worse than expected, we sometimes change the plans. As far as I know we've >> never *shortened* the expected support timeline for any branch or release, >> but we have on occasion lenthened them when we feel it's important to do >> so. I'm not sure what other answer is possible. > > No other answer. But nobody has yet provided what the EoL period is going > to be. I have no problems with a period being extended ;-) But the > business needs to know the minimum EoL for a given release to determine if > upgrading to that release is viable. Well, a starting answer is the policy found on http://security.FreeBSD.org/: Early adopter Releases which are published from the -CURRENT branch will be supported by the Security Officer for a minimum of 6 months after the release. Normal Releases which are published from a -STABLE branch will be supported by the Security Officer for a minimum of 12 months after the release. Extended Selected releases will be supported by the Security Officer for a minimum of 24 months after the release. At the time of release, we know if a release is considered "early adopter", and attempt to clearly mark it as such. The harder question is whether or not we will start out considering a release "normal" or "extended" -- sometimes we are able to make that decision at the time of the release (i.e., we believe firmly it's the last release on the branch at the time of release), but on the whole we will make that decision based on the facts on the ground. An important factor is whether or not we consider the release a highly maintainable release, and while we have intuitions at the time of release, that's something we can only learn in the first couple of months after it's in production. I don't know of any COTS software house that really does it any differently, and I'm not sure you could do it differently -- no one plans to ship a lemon, but once in a while you discover that things don't go as planned. Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 01:39:22 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05125106564A for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 01:39:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kaho@ed.niigata-u.ac.jp) Received: from mxav03.cc.niigata-u.ac.jp (mxav03.cc.niigata-u.ac.jp [133.35.17.131]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9F438FC17 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 01:39:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kaho@ed.niigata-u.ac.jp) Received: from mxav03.cc.niigata-u.ac.jp (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31F3A2900F5 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:39:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from pf2.ed.niigata-u.ac.jp (pf2.ed.niigata-u.ac.jp [133.35.172.22]) by mxav03.cc.niigata-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11F392900A3 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:39:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from pf2.ed.niigata-u.ac.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pf2.ed.niigata-u.ac.jp (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id m8I1dJEt067791 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:39:19 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from kaho@pf2.ed.niigata-u.ac.jp) Message-Id: <200809180139.m8I1dJEt067791@pf2.ed.niigata-u.ac.jp> To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org From: KAHO Toshikazu References: <200809171137.32759.jhb@freebsd.org> User-Agent: EMH/1.14.1 SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.8 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?S?= =?ISO-8859-4?Q?hij=F2?=) APEL/10.7 Emacs/21.3 (i386--freebsd) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:39:19 +0900 Sender: kaho@ed.niigata-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: alpm(4) I/O range is claimed by ACPI X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 01:39:22 -0000 Hello, > Well, bus_alloc_resource() will allocate resources for the BAR and update the > BAR for you, the question is if you need to hardcode the range to > bus_alloc_resource() or not. It is necessary for a pci device to set the BAR, if the device would use memory or I/O space, isn't it? I don't know why the BAR is not settable, but I think it is disabled by some reasons and the BAR may be settable if the device could be enabled. If the device have default I/O space, it needs to hardcode the range or isa attach code. The device dose not seem to have default I/O space. This problem is not so important for myself, but it is a good if it was solved. -- KAHO Toshikazu From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 04:27:35 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFD791065679; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 04:27:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from mail.netconsonance.com (mail.netconsonance.com [198.207.204.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C9648FC13; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 04:27:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from [172.16.12.8] (covad-jrhett.meer.net [209.157.140.144]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netconsonance.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m8I4PRrW017660; Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:25:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netconsonance.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.452 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.452 tagged_above=-999 required=3.5 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1.44, AWL=-1.012] Message-Id: <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> From: Jo Rhett To: Robert Watson In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v928.1) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:25:27 -0700 References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <593618A3-56DA-4891-A4A0-690E9A9C5B32@netconsonance.com> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.928.1) Cc: freebsd-stable , Wesley Shields , Nathan Way , Ben Kaduk Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 04:27:36 -0000 On Sep 17, 2008, at 4:33 PM, Robert Watson wrote: > An important factor is whether or not we consider the release a > highly maintainable release, and while we have intuitions at the > time of release, that's something we can only learn in the first > couple of months after it's in production. I don't know of any COTS > software house that really does it any differently I understand what you mean, but the statement is blatantly false as stated. Anyone selling software to the US Government *must* specify (or meet, depending) a minimum support period, and must also specify a cost the agency can pay to extend the support period. Not relevant to FreeBSD -- just qualifying the statement as it stands. For the obvious comparison, Solaris versions have well- published release and support periods, usually upwards of 8 years. Obviously they have more resources to do this, I'm just pointing out that the statement you made is incorrect as stated. > and I'm not sure you could do it differently -- no one plans to ship > a lemon, but once in a while you discover that things don't go as > planned. I am amazed at the preposterously large elephant in the room that none of you are willing to address. Watching each of you dance around it would be terribly funny if it didn't affect my job so badly. (and if I wasn't going to have to bail on FreeBSD and go to some crap form of Linux because the FreeBSD developers appear to be unwilling to consider the idea of getting more help) Your limitation is resources, right? You've calculated what you can support based on the resources you have, right? We are talking about ways to increase the resources available to you... right? So the math on which the conclusions are reached then changes. So lets figure out... what do the basis numbers need to be to change the support period? Obviously this is a bit of hand waving. These numbers are unlikely to be empirical. But try. Examine the concept of having increased resources. What do you need. How do you need it, to make a real change? Please stop avoiding even considering what people are offering to you. -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 04:56:51 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74D371065676 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 04:56:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andrew@modulus.org) Received: from email.octopus.com.au (host-122-100-2-232.octopus.com.au [122.100.2.232]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CFD08FC14 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 04:56:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andrew@modulus.org) Received: by email.octopus.com.au (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 4F35D1795B; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:56:49 +1000 (EST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on email.octopus.com.au X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=failed version=3.2.3 Received: from [10.20.30.102] (60.218.233.220.exetel.com.au [220.233.218.60]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: admin@email.octopus.com.au) by email.octopus.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B29C17423; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:56:45 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <48D1DF82.20205@modulus.org> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:56:34 +1000 From: Andrew Snow User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-stable References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <593618A3-56DA-4891-A4A0-690E9A9C5B32@netconsonance.com> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> In-Reply-To: <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Nathan Way , Ben Kaduk Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 04:56:51 -0000 Another thing that I believe would help: Voting on PRs. Currently a maintainer has no idea if a PR is due to one guy's flakey hardware or if 50 people have had the same problem and are waiting for a fix. For each major problem report, there are probably many people who tried FreeBSD on particular hardware and just silently gave up when it failed. Ability to "vote up" on a PR on the freebsd website would give maintainers a tool to see which PRs are affecting the userbase. - Andrew From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 06:41:43 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 132721065673 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 06:41:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=ANxwUw=Z4=webzone.net.au=andrewd@smtp.webzone.net.au) Received: from smtp.webzone.net.au (smtp.webzone.net.au [210.8.36.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7B8D8FC12 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 06:41:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=ANxwUw=Z4=webzone.net.au=andrewd@smtp.webzone.net.au) Received: from ws.webzone.net.au ([203.57.204.252]) by smtp.webzone.net.au with esmtpa (Exim 4.69 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1KgD33-000MNC-Gp for freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:01:29 +0930 Message-ID: <48D1F5C0.6070502@webzone.net.au> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:01:28 +0930 From: "Andrew D (Webzone)" Organization: Webzone Internet User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-stable References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <593618A3-56DA-4891-A4A0-690E9A9C5B32@netconsonance.com> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <48D1DF82.20205@modulus.org> In-Reply-To: <48D1DF82.20205@modulus.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AUTH-WEBZONE: andrewd@webzone.net.au successfully authed as username:andrewd Cc: Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 06:41:43 -0000 Andrew Snow wrote: > > Another thing that I believe would help: Voting on PRs. > > Currently a maintainer has no idea if a PR is due to one guy's flakey > hardware or if 50 people have had the same problem and are waiting for a > fix. > > For each major problem report, there are probably many people who tried > FreeBSD on particular hardware and just silently gave up when it failed. You might even find that people don't even know what a PR is or how to report it. Maybe a dialog during the install telling people about the PR system might be helpful. > > Ability to "vote up" on a PR on the freebsd website would give > maintainers a tool to see which PRs are affecting the userbase. Andrew > > - Andrew > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 07:53:10 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 075D51065672 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 07:53:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from talon@lpthe.jussieu.fr) Received: from shiva.jussieu.fr (shiva.jussieu.fr [134.157.0.129]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8E5A8FC0C for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 07:53:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from talon@lpthe.jussieu.fr) Received: from parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.1]) by shiva.jussieu.fr (8.14.3/jtpda-5.4) with ESMTP id m8I7r7iA017309 ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 09:53:08 +0200 (CEST) X-Ids: 168 Received: from niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.41]) by parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9301589E88; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 09:53:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: by niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Postfix, from userid 2005) id 83FAF10B; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 09:53:06 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 09:53:06 +0200 From: Michel Talon To: John Baldwin Message-ID: <20080918075306.GA30709@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Mail-Followup-To: Michel Talon , John Baldwin , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org References: <20080917150433.GA3585@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <200809171713.39694.jhb@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200809171713.39694.jhb@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (shiva.jussieu.fr [134.157.0.168]); Thu, 18 Sep 2008 09:53:08 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.3/8275/Thu Sep 18 03:16:55 2008 on shiva.jussieu.fr X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Miltered: at jchkmail.jussieu.fr with ID 48D208E3.008 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 48D208E3.008/134.157.10.1/parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr/parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 48D208E3.008 on jchkmail.jussieu.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.009 -> S=0.009 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: floppy disk controller broken X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 07:53:10 -0000 On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 05:13:39PM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > On Wednesday 17 September 2008 11:04:33 am Michel Talon wrote: > > Hello, > > > > when testing FreeBSD-7.1-BETA i discovered that the floppy disk > > controller doesn't work correctly. Trying to format a floppy (perhaps > > with bad blocks) i get: > > Processing fdformat: ioctl(FD_FORM): Device not configured > > instead of the normal E letter. I then checked the same problem is > > present on FreeBSD-6.3 and it has been reported by Beech Rintoul (*) in > > 2006! Of course the floppy disk driver is particularly messy, but > > this is not pretty. > > > > (*) i386/103862: Error with fdformat > > It looks like the ioctl to format a track used to never report failures from > the controller. The newer driver does. What I've done with fdformat is to > make it just ignore the errors in userland instead. Try this: > > Index: fdformat.c > =================================================================== > --- fdformat.c (revision 183112) > +++ fdformat.c (working copy) > @@ -75,8 +75,7 @@ > f.fd_formb_secno(i) = il[i+1]; > f.fd_formb_secsize(i) = secsize; > } > - if(ioctl(fd, FD_FORM, (caddr_t)&f) < 0) > - err(EX_OSERR, "ioctl(FD_FORM)"); > + (void)ioctl(fd, FD_FORM, (caddr_t)&f); > } > > static int > > > -- > John Baldwin This doesn't work any more. This time i get niobe# fdformat fd0 Format 1440K floppy `/dev/fd0'? (y/n): y Processing EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE done. where only the first E takes some time to be printed, and all subsequent ones are printed instantaneously, that is all other formatting is not tried. In principle the formatting process must try each of the "sectors" in turn, and can come up with a series of V and F. Moreover, trying to write to the floppy: niobe# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/fd0 conv=noerror dd: /dev/fd0: Input/output error 5+0 records in 4+0 records out 2048 bytes transferred in 4.054404 secs (505 bytes/sec) I don't expect such result. Traditionnally writing works, while reading may fail. Here reading fails with incoherent messages: dd: /dev/fd0: Device not configured 3+0 records in 3+0 records out 1536 bytes transferred in 2.595216 secs (592 bytes/sec) repeated a large number of times. But nothing in dmesg, contrary to the tradition which showed the defective sectors. In conclusion i am under the impression that the in kernel driver is severely botched. Of course nobody uses floppies any more, but this is quite ugly. -- Michel TALON From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 11:57:20 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF1701065671 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:57:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sclark46@earthlink.net) Received: from elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95E518FC13 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:57:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sclark46@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=GYxGTAlWa1oV0eGrRnANX0QKXmXGpeM4ZLO6ZbnNoCKeV/pS1HITT9T7xiIaiiaS; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [24.144.77.185] (helo=joker.seclark.com) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KgI8N-00076q-W6; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 07:57:20 -0400 Message-ID: <48D2421E.5090909@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 07:57:18 -0400 From: Stephen Clark User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (X11/20080723) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeremy Chadwick References: <48D0EBCE.9030503@earthlink.net> <20080917162537.GB95431@icarus.home.lan> <20080917170346.GA49607@sandvine.com> <20080917202848.GA99931@icarus.home.lan> In-Reply-To: <20080917202848.GA99931@icarus.home.lan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: a437fbc6971e80f61aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec792c1c5de0b95165f721e6c50e6714bd58350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 24.144.77.185 Cc: FreeBSD Stable , Ed Maste Subject: Re: 6.3 reboot -d doesn't work X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: sclark46@earthlink.net List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:57:21 -0000 Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 01:03:46PM -0400, Ed Maste wrote: >> On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 09:25:37AM -0700, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 07:36:46AM -0400, Stephen Clark wrote: >>>> I am trying to get a crash dump but am unable to with FreeBSD 6.3-RELEASE-p2 >>>> >>>> [...] >>>> reboot -d >>>> ... >>>> dumping 255M 2 chunks >>>> >>>> >>>> Then nothing - the system doesn't reboot and I have to hard reset it. >>>> When it comes back up there is no crash file in /var/crash >>>> [...] >>> It's a known problem. If when the machine reboots, you forcefully enter >>> single-user, you should be able to get the kernel dump using savecore. >>> >>> http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=conf/118255 >> Your PR doesn't look like Stephen's problem to me, since according to >> his description the system hangs when trying to do the dump so there >> won't be anything on the disk for savecore to save. > > You're right, thanks Ed. His "when it comes back up there is no crash > file" is what threw me for a loop. > > Stephen, does the problem *only* happen when using the -d flag, or does > the system lock up on reboot in general? > > If the latter, try using one or both of the following sysctls: > > hw.acpi.handle_reboot=1 > hw.acpi.disable_on_reboot=1 > > If the lesser, I've no idea. > The problem only happens when I do the reboot -d. If I do reboot it comes back ok. I have tried it on two different platforms 1) a Biostar TForce 6100 mainboard with an AMD dual core processor 2) a Soekris net5501 with the same results. I get the dumping message and then it hangs and I have to hard reset the box. Thanks, Steve -- "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Ben Franklin) "The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases." (Thomas Jefferson) From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 12:58:11 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39EB91065676; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:58:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from smtp-vbr6.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr6.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.26]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2E558FC14; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:58:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (freebie.xs4all.nl [82.95.250.254]) by smtp-vbr6.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m8ICkaMJ097030; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:46:37 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8ICkFJZ094169; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:46:15 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: (from wb@localhost) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m8ICk9e5094168; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:46:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:46:09 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: Jo Rhett Message-ID: <20080918124608.GK91598@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Cc: freebsd-stable , Wesley Shields , Robert Watson , Ben Kaduk , Nathan Way Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:58:11 -0000 Quoting Jo Rhett, who wrote on Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 09:25:27PM -0700 .. > On Sep 17, 2008, at 4:33 PM, Robert Watson wrote: > > An important factor is whether or not we consider the release a > > highly maintainable release, and while we have intuitions at the > > time of release, that's something we can only learn in the first > > couple of months after it's in production. I don't know of any COTS > > software house that really does it any differently > > I understand what you mean, but the statement is blatantly false as > stated. Anyone selling software to the US Government *must* specify > (or meet, depending) a minimum support period, and must also specify a > cost the agency can pay to extend the support period. > > Not relevant to FreeBSD -- just qualifying the statement as it > stands. For the obvious comparison, Solaris versions have well- > published release and support periods, usually upwards of 8 years. > Obviously they have more resources to do this, I'm just pointing out > that the statement you made is incorrect as stated. > > > and I'm not sure you could do it differently -- no one plans to ship > > a lemon, but once in a while you discover that things don't go as > > planned. > > > I am amazed at the preposterously large elephant in the room that none > of you are willing to address. Watching each of you dance around it > would be terribly funny if it didn't affect my job so badly. (and if > I wasn't going to have to bail on FreeBSD and go to some crap form of > Linux because the FreeBSD developers appear to be unwilling to > consider the idea of getting more help) You seem to be *demanding* quite a lot lately. Wilko From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 13:18:44 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B850106566B for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 13:18:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from QMTA04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1A4C8FC0A for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 13:18:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from OMTA14.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.60]) by QMTA04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id GBnR1a0021HzFnQ54DJiD5; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 13:18:42 +0000 Received: from koitsu.dyndns.org ([67.180.253.227]) by OMTA14.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id GDJh1a0054v8bD73aDJhec; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 13:18:42 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=l1b6aXiS2cYA:10 a=QycZ5dHgAAAA:8 a=VJu7Ik2t7wqIiN5JtPAA:9 a=7iLXWZ2somHwHRnktfz4qJBz8d4A:4 a=EoioJ0NPDVgA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 Received: by icarus.home.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B8AFD17B81A; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 06:18:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 06:18:40 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Wilko Bulte Message-ID: <20080918131840.GA18595@icarus.home.lan> References: <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <20080918124608.GK91598@freebie.xs4all.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080918124608.GK91598@freebie.xs4all.nl> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-stable , Wesley Shields , Ben Kaduk , Jo Rhett , Robert Watson , Nathan Way Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 13:18:44 -0000 On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 02:46:09PM +0200, Wilko Bulte wrote: > Quoting Jo Rhett, who wrote on Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 09:25:27PM -0700 .. > > On Sep 17, 2008, at 4:33 PM, Robert Watson wrote: > > > An important factor is whether or not we consider the release a > > > highly maintainable release, and while we have intuitions at the > > > time of release, that's something we can only learn in the first > > > couple of months after it's in production. I don't know of any COTS > > > software house that really does it any differently > > > > I understand what you mean, but the statement is blatantly false as > > stated. Anyone selling software to the US Government *must* specify > > (or meet, depending) a minimum support period, and must also specify a > > cost the agency can pay to extend the support period. > > > > Not relevant to FreeBSD -- just qualifying the statement as it > > stands. For the obvious comparison, Solaris versions have well- > > published release and support periods, usually upwards of 8 years. > > Obviously they have more resources to do this, I'm just pointing out > > that the statement you made is incorrect as stated. > > > > > and I'm not sure you could do it differently -- no one plans to ship > > > a lemon, but once in a while you discover that things don't go as > > > planned. > > > > > > I am amazed at the preposterously large elephant in the room that none > > of you are willing to address. Watching each of you dance around it > > would be terribly funny if it didn't affect my job so badly. (and if > > I wasn't going to have to bail on FreeBSD and go to some crap form of > > Linux because the FreeBSD developers appear to be unwilling to > > consider the idea of getting more help) > > You seem to be *demanding* quite a lot lately. Jo has a point, though. I'm certain he's looked at the situation from the developers' point of view, and in response, I'd recommend others try to look at it from his, even if others consider it silly or unreasonable. It's a frustrating situation, and there's no snap-your-fingers-voila solution for it, other than extending support lifetimes per release. Mark's graphs show release lifetimes are getting shorter, which I doubt Jo would have a problem with, assuming each new release was somehow guaranteed (more or less, cut me some slack) to not break previous releases' binaries and so on. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 13:32:45 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8765810656C3; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 13:32:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from smtp-vbr12.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr12.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.32]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34A938FC13; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 13:32:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (freebie.xs4all.nl [82.95.250.254]) by smtp-vbr12.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m8IDWcC0047489; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:32:38 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8IDWHOP094833; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:32:17 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: (from wb@localhost) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m8IDWBVa094832; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:32:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:32:11 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: Jeremy Chadwick Message-ID: <20080918133211.GL91598@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <20080918124608.GK91598@freebie.xs4all.nl> <20080918131840.GA18595@icarus.home.lan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080918131840.GA18595@icarus.home.lan> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Cc: freebsd-stable , Wesley Shields , Ben Kaduk , Jo Rhett , Robert Watson , Nathan Way Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 13:32:45 -0000 Quoting Jeremy Chadwick, who wrote on Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 06:18:40AM -0700 .. > On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 02:46:09PM +0200, Wilko Bulte wrote: > > Quoting Jo Rhett, who wrote on Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 09:25:27PM -0700 .. > > > On Sep 17, 2008, at 4:33 PM, Robert Watson wrote: > > > > An important factor is whether or not we consider the release a > > > > highly maintainable release, and while we have intuitions at the > > > > time of release, that's something we can only learn in the first > > > > couple of months after it's in production. I don't know of any COTS > > > > software house that really does it any differently > > > > > > I understand what you mean, but the statement is blatantly false as > > > stated. Anyone selling software to the US Government *must* specify > > > (or meet, depending) a minimum support period, and must also specify a > > > cost the agency can pay to extend the support period. > > > > > > Not relevant to FreeBSD -- just qualifying the statement as it > > > stands. For the obvious comparison, Solaris versions have well- > > > published release and support periods, usually upwards of 8 years. > > > Obviously they have more resources to do this, I'm just pointing out > > > that the statement you made is incorrect as stated. > > > > > > > and I'm not sure you could do it differently -- no one plans to ship > > > > a lemon, but once in a while you discover that things don't go as > > > > planned. > > > > > > > > > I am amazed at the preposterously large elephant in the room that none > > > of you are willing to address. Watching each of you dance around it > > > would be terribly funny if it didn't affect my job so badly. (and if > > > I wasn't going to have to bail on FreeBSD and go to some crap form of > > > Linux because the FreeBSD developers appear to be unwilling to > > > consider the idea of getting more help) > > > > You seem to be *demanding* quite a lot lately. > > Jo has a point, though. I'm certain he's looked at the situation from > the developers' point of view, and in response, I'd recommend others > try to look at it from his, even if others consider it silly or > unreasonable. > > It's a frustrating situation, and there's no snap-your-fingers-voila > solution for it, other than extending support lifetimes per release. Indeed, there is no easy solution. Extending support lifetime takes more resources of course. Wilko From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 15:21:44 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A361106566B for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:21:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash@gmail.com) Received: from smtp.sd73.bc.ca (smtp.sd73.bc.ca [142.24.13.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10ED98FC14 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:21:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash@gmail.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.sd73.bc.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id F08871A00AB9C for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:21:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at smtp.sd73.bc.ca Received: from smtp.sd73.bc.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.sd73.bc.ca [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id GyZN4oLmU+o6 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:21:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from coal (s10.sbo [192.168.0.10]) by smtp.sd73.bc.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AE021A01306B for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:21:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Freddie Cash To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:21:31 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.9 References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> In-Reply-To: <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200809180821.32188.fjwcash@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:21:44 -0000 Maybe I'm missing something here, but it seems like Jo just wants to argue= =20 for the sake of arguing. =46irst Jo wrote: >No other answer. =A0But nobody has yet provided what the EoL period is =A0 >going to be. =A0I have no problems with a period being extended ;-) =A0But= =A0 >the business needs to know the minimum EoL for a given release to =A0 >determine if upgrading to that release is viable. To which Robert Watson replied, giving the minimums asked for: >Well, a starting answer is the policy found on=20 >http://security.FreeBSD.org/:=20 >Early adopter >=A0 =A0Releases which are published from the -CURRENT branch will be=20 >=A0 =A0supported by=20 >=A0 =A0the Security Officer for a minimum of 6 months after the release.=20 > >Normal >=A0 =A0Releases which are published from a -STABLE branch will be supporte= d=20 >=A0 =A0by the=A0Security Officer for a minimum of 12 months after the rele= ase. > >Extended >=A0 =A0Selected releases will be supported by the Security Officer for a=20 >=A0 =A0minimum of=A024 months after the release. And yet Jo completely ignored that, and focused in on something completely= =20 unrelated: > I am amazed at the preposterously large elephant in the room that none > of you are willing to address. Watching each of you dance around it > would be terribly funny if it didn't affect my job so badly. (and if > I wasn't going to have to bail on FreeBSD and go to some crap form of > Linux because the FreeBSD developers appear to be unwilling to > consider the idea of getting more help) Jo: You know the minimum support period for each release, before it is=20 released. You know what the earliest EoL time will be for each release=20 as it is released. What more do you want? =2D-=20 =46reddie Cash fjwcash@gmail.com From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 15:55:46 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD3CC106567C for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:55:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oleg@opentransfer.com) Received: from smh01.opentransfer.com (smh01.opentransfer.com [71.18.216.112]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D6648FC13 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:55:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oleg@opentransfer.com) Received: by smh01.opentransfer.com (Postfix, from userid 8) id 09C7B22A19F5; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:03:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on smh01.opentransfer.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 required=5.0 tests=RDNS_NONE autolearn=disabled version=3.2.4 Received: from webmail4.opentransfer.com (unknown [69.49.230.6]) by smh01.opentransfer.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4A1022A1962 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:03:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail4.opentransfer.com (webmail4.opentransfer.com [127.0.0.1]) by webmail4.opentransfer.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m8IF5iA3020306 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:05:44 -0500 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by webmail4.opentransfer.com (8.13.8/8.13.5/Submit) id m8IF5hWS020305 for freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:05:43 +0300 X-Authentication-Warning: webmail4.opentransfer.com: nobody set sender to oleg@opentransfer.com using -f Received: from oleg.ecommerce-dev.com (oleg.ecommerce-dev.com [193.142.124.7]) by webmail.opentransfer.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:05:43 +0300 Message-ID: <20080918180543.pt7s2zmaio48ww8g@webmail.opentransfer.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:05:43 +0300 From: "Oleg V. Nauman" To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.4) X-Originating-IP: 193.142.124.7 Subject: RELENG_7: something is very wrong with UDP? X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:55:46 -0000 It seems to be something is very wrong with UDP on latest RELENG_7 Well some symptoms I have seen today when I was trying to boot newly compiled RELENG_7 on my laptop: a) rc scripts indefinitely waiting on logger to be completed during the boot ( devd and ifconfig are good examples) b) Sporadic DNS request failures c) traceroute prints 0.00 like response time for every host d) was unable to reboot my laptop performing shutdown -r ( due to logger/syslog related issues I think) e ) I was unable to start X session ( it seems to be freezes laptop because I was unable to switch to another virtual console even) csup "backout" to date=2008.09.15.12.00.00 and recompiling the kernel fixes this issue for me. Is anybody experiencing the same issues with fresh RELENG_7? Unsure it is my local issues though From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 16:12:16 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D0051065673 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:12:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from heliocentric@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gx0-f17.google.com (mail-gx0-f17.google.com [209.85.217.17]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E96D58FC21 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:12:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from heliocentric@gmail.com) Received: by gxk10 with SMTP id 10so29245530gxk.19 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 09:12:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=T6iAwhk46ApuzqyGzkcmrxpUDMxDBUNyC7EnICbzMK0=; b=aC91UOgNmAIkjjVkBF8/1yBDJ73cXza37ZMY5scPpQTdWf6JLX2Sdpl97YWe7LmYfO Yi7AzHyS3NxOwf7vKbaeHGjjFhFW77tEkWdFu29IL57nLTxvlbwC6YP6ukf3wkl9/qtN XXHsDAa8ubCRB3qMtT5FgTLMYxQgbyZ6pwbOw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references:x-google-sender-auth; b=QxgqrqcJo/7XCF7rHfkM7qxq0tbYOhh1VqiMfHVF1vE1meOBxP7wuf5vCe6ce6VXio FpmTUE+MD6rOIN0YVkrhlKUEk3YHgorcqciS8hVo2KwOMOWur8QE1x650JAsrkJUCk+h 4puIK8FcvU1kSDYqKpnAsabpgeSKkF0Wx8h5E= Received: by 10.90.31.6 with SMTP id e6mr5285562age.90.1221752843330; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:47:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.80.14 with HTTP; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:47:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:47:23 -0400 From: "Dylan Cochran" Sender: heliocentric@gmail.com To: "Jo Rhett" In-Reply-To: <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: d1a963406a04e448 Cc: freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:12:16 -0000 On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 12:25 AM, Jo Rhett wrote: > I understand what you mean, but the statement is blatantly false as stated. > Anyone selling software to the US Government *must* specify (or meet, > depending) a minimum support period, and must also specify a cost the agency > can pay to extend the support period. > > Not relevant to FreeBSD -- just qualifying the statement as it stands. For > the obvious comparison, Solaris versions have well-published release and > support periods, usually upwards of 8 years. Obviously they have more > resources to do this, I'm just pointing out that the statement you made is > incorrect as stated. > >> and I'm not sure you could do it differently -- no one plans to ship a >> lemon, but once in a while you discover that things don't go as planned. > > > I am amazed at the preposterously large elephant in the room that none of > you are willing to address. Watching each of you dance around it would be > terribly funny if it didn't affect my job so badly. (and if I wasn't going > to have to bail on FreeBSD and go to some crap form of Linux because the > FreeBSD developers appear to be unwilling to consider the idea of getting > more help) My opinion on this matter may be considered radical, but I do think it should be at least recorded, if not impartially considered. While this problem can't be solved just by extending time with the hope that the resources will be allocated (no offense to your character, but that promise is made by a lot of people, and it doesn't always work out that way; particularly in environments with ingrained and blind politics where the money flows can change based on pride and/or sheer ignorance), it may be advantageous to treat the root causes. One of the biggest (and most prominent, though not obviously so) issues is the lack of concurrency with regards to releases. With the default system, having multiple freebsd releases side by side (both different versions, and different architectures) is infeasible. This makes the choice more critical, while hindering flexibility. The necessity of long support schedules is one of the symptoms. The fact that you have to choose, and then to change the choice you must clean up, back up, and create a new environment in order to test on a different release/architecture (release in this context includes kernel, a chroot is incomplete for testing), has two major effects: it hinders users from being able to selectively test newer releases with their software stack/hardware selection, with no adverse (within reason; obviously bugs like disk corruption will still happen) changes that will prevent them from reverting. While it may not please the accountants, cleaning up the namespace and allowing safe concurrency of releases will increase the /legitmate/ feasibility of using FreeBSD on a large scale. Oh, I forgot to mention, this is far from a pipe dream. I have a working environment with this capability, and I use it whenever I am able. This isn't to say it is the only cause, it is one of many, and I would never even claim it was a magic bullet. But it is my opinion that this problem is best solved not by arguing how to work around the symptoms, but to analyze and solve the parent problems that may not be so obvious. There's my two cents on the matter. From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 16:18:48 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 130381065675; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:18:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (unknown [IPv6:2a01:170:102f::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80E0E8FC0C; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:18:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id m8IGIjOv050391; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:18:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id m8IGIj2P050390; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:18:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from olli) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:18:45 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <200809181618.m8IGIj2P050390@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, talon@lpthe.jussieu.fr, jhb@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20080918075306.GA30709@lpthe.jussieu.fr> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-stable User-Agent: tin/1.8.3-20070201 ("Scotasay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/6.4-PRERELEASE-20080904 (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:18:46 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Subject: Re: floppy disk controller broken X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, talon@lpthe.jussieu.fr, jhb@FreeBSD.ORG List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:18:48 -0000 Michel Talon wrote: > John Baldwin wrote: > > It looks like the ioctl to format a track used to never report failures from > > the controller. The newer driver does. What I've done with fdformat is to > > make it just ignore the errors in userland instead. Try this: > > > > Index: fdformat.c > > =================================================================== > > --- fdformat.c (revision 183112) > > +++ fdformat.c (working copy) > > @@ -75,8 +75,7 @@ > > f.fd_formb_secno(i) = il[i+1]; > > f.fd_formb_secsize(i) = secsize; > > } > > - if(ioctl(fd, FD_FORM, (caddr_t)&f) < 0) > > - err(EX_OSERR, "ioctl(FD_FORM)"); > > + (void)ioctl(fd, FD_FORM, (caddr_t)&f); > > } > > > > static int > > This doesn't work any more. This time i get > niobe# fdformat fd0 > Format 1440K floppy `/dev/fd0'? (y/n): y > Processing EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE done. > > where only the first E takes some time to be printed, and all subsequent > ones are printed instantaneously, that is all other formatting is not > tried. In principle the formatting process must try each of the > "sectors" in turn, and can come up with a series of V and F. > > Moreover, trying to write to the floppy: > niobe# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/fd0 conv=noerror > dd: /dev/fd0: Input/output error > 5+0 records in > 4+0 records out > 2048 bytes transferred in 4.054404 secs (505 bytes/sec) > > I don't expect such result. Traditionnally writing works, while reading > may fail. Maybe I misunderstand what you're saying, but ... When I try to write to a floppy that has *not* been successfully formatted, I very much expect to get Input/output error. Anything else would be a bug. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "The most important decision in [programming] language design concerns what is to be left out." -- Niklaus Wirth From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 18:33:00 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 725741065675; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:33:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from talon@lpthe.jussieu.fr) Received: from shiva.jussieu.fr (shiva.jussieu.fr [134.157.0.129]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E1648FC19; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:32:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from talon@lpthe.jussieu.fr) Received: from parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.1]) by shiva.jussieu.fr (8.14.3/jtpda-5.4) with ESMTP id m8IIWrtm094577 ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:32:53 +0200 (CEST) X-Ids: 166 Received: from niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.41]) by parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 164D78A266; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:32:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: by niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Postfix, from userid 2005) id A458D10B; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:32:51 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:32:50 +0200 From: Michel Talon To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, jhb@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <20080918183250.GA48347@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Mail-Followup-To: Michel Talon , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, jhb@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20080918075306.GA30709@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <200809181618.m8IGIj2P050390@lurza.secnetix.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200809181618.m8IGIj2P050390@lurza.secnetix.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (shiva.jussieu.fr [134.157.0.166]); Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:32:53 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.3/8281/Thu Sep 18 19:13:14 2008 on shiva.jussieu.fr X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Miltered: at jchkmail.jussieu.fr with ID 48D29ED5.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 48D29ED5.003/134.157.10.1/parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr/parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 48D29ED5.003 on jchkmail.jussieu.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.009 -> S=0.009 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Cc: Subject: Re: floppy disk controller broken X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:33:00 -0000 On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 06:18:45PM +0200, Oliver Fromme wrote: > Michel Talon wrote: > > John Baldwin wrote: > > > It looks like the ioctl to format a track used to never report failures from > > > the controller. The newer driver does. What I've done with fdformat is to > > > make it just ignore the errors in userland instead. Try this: > > > > > > Index: fdformat.c > > > =================================================================== > > > --- fdformat.c (revision 183112) > > > +++ fdformat.c (working copy) > > > @@ -75,8 +75,7 @@ > > > f.fd_formb_secno(i) = il[i+1]; > > > f.fd_formb_secsize(i) = secsize; > > > } > > > - if(ioctl(fd, FD_FORM, (caddr_t)&f) < 0) > > > - err(EX_OSERR, "ioctl(FD_FORM)"); > > > + (void)ioctl(fd, FD_FORM, (caddr_t)&f); > > > } > > > > > > static int > > > > This doesn't work any more. This time i get > > niobe# fdformat fd0 > > Format 1440K floppy `/dev/fd0'? (y/n): y > > Processing EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE done. > > > > where only the first E takes some time to be printed, and all subsequent > > ones are printed instantaneously, that is all other formatting is not > > tried. In principle the formatting process must try each of the > > "sectors" in turn, and can come up with a series of V and F. > > > > Moreover, trying to write to the floppy: > > niobe# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/fd0 conv=noerror > > dd: /dev/fd0: Input/output error > > 5+0 records in > > 4+0 records out > > 2048 bytes transferred in 4.054404 secs (505 bytes/sec) > > > > I don't expect such result. Traditionnally writing works, while reading > > may fail. > > Maybe I misunderstand what you're saying, but ... > When I try to write to a floppy that has *not* been > successfully formatted, I very much expect to get > Input/output error. Anything else would be a bug. > > Best regards > Oliver The floppy has certainly be formatted, in the past. Perhaps i remember badly, i have not used floppies since years, but in this case the behavior with Windows, Linux and ancient FreeBSD was that you could write to the floppy, but could encounter errors while reading. Using dd conv=noerror allowed to recover the valid part. Under Windows you could very well use floppies partly damaged with bad blocks or tracks. Here the driver seems to bail out at the first error, so that the above commands run much faster than they should, a few seconds, while something of the order of a minute should be more realistic. -- Michel TALON From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 18:48:31 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32770106564A for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:48:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from QMTA03.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta03.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.32]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF92E8FC12 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:48:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from OMTA06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.51]) by QMTA03.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id GBbW1a00216LCl053JoWqw; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:48:30 +0000 Received: from koitsu.dyndns.org ([67.180.253.227]) by OMTA06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id GJoV1a0034v8bD73SJoV0G; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:48:30 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=QycZ5dHgAAAA:8 a=cyMd1-_WO_i_suH5e24A:9 a=SsXy2l0EPFDNe3jcsMwA:7 a=36TZWzMwRJ30XmDbqOa1PuOHffgA:4 a=EoioJ0NPDVgA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 Received: by icarus.home.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id EC1F317B81A; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:48:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:48:28 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Michel Talon , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, jhb@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <20080918184828.GA25072@icarus.home.lan> References: <20080918075306.GA30709@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <200809181618.m8IGIj2P050390@lurza.secnetix.de> <20080918183250.GA48347@lpthe.jussieu.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080918183250.GA48347@lpthe.jussieu.fr> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: Subject: Re: floppy disk controller broken X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:48:31 -0000 On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 08:32:50PM +0200, Michel Talon wrote: > On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 06:18:45PM +0200, Oliver Fromme wrote: > > Michel Talon wrote: > > > John Baldwin wrote: > > > > It looks like the ioctl to format a track used to never report failures from > > > > the controller. The newer driver does. What I've done with fdformat is to > > > > make it just ignore the errors in userland instead. Try this: > > > > > > > > Index: fdformat.c > > > > =================================================================== > > > > --- fdformat.c (revision 183112) > > > > +++ fdformat.c (working copy) > > > > @@ -75,8 +75,7 @@ > > > > f.fd_formb_secno(i) = il[i+1]; > > > > f.fd_formb_secsize(i) = secsize; > > > > } > > > > - if(ioctl(fd, FD_FORM, (caddr_t)&f) < 0) > > > > - err(EX_OSERR, "ioctl(FD_FORM)"); > > > > + (void)ioctl(fd, FD_FORM, (caddr_t)&f); > > > > } > > > > > > > > static int > > > > > > This doesn't work any more. This time i get > > > niobe# fdformat fd0 > > > Format 1440K floppy `/dev/fd0'? (y/n): y > > > Processing EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE done. > > > > > > where only the first E takes some time to be printed, and all subsequent > > > ones are printed instantaneously, that is all other formatting is not > > > tried. In principle the formatting process must try each of the > > > "sectors" in turn, and can come up with a series of V and F. > > > > > > Moreover, trying to write to the floppy: > > > niobe# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/fd0 conv=noerror > > > dd: /dev/fd0: Input/output error > > > 5+0 records in > > > 4+0 records out > > > 2048 bytes transferred in 4.054404 secs (505 bytes/sec) > > > > > > I don't expect such result. Traditionnally writing works, while reading > > > may fail. > > > > Maybe I misunderstand what you're saying, but ... > > When I try to write to a floppy that has *not* been > > successfully formatted, I very much expect to get > > Input/output error. Anything else would be a bug. > > > > Best regards > > Oliver > > The floppy has certainly be formatted, in the past. Perhaps i > remember badly, i have not used floppies since years, but > in this case the behavior with Windows, Linux and ancient FreeBSD > was that you could write to the floppy, but could encounter errors > while reading. Using dd conv=noerror allowed to recover the valid part. > Under Windows you could very well use floppies partly damaged with > bad blocks or tracks. Here the driver seems to bail out at the first > error, so that the above commands run much faster than they should, > a few seconds, while something of the order of a minute should be > more realistic. I swore in older FreeBSD (2.x days?) there was a command which was actually used for dealing with bad sectors on floppy disks. I might be thinking of badsect(8), can't remember... -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 18:58:38 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E909106566C; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:58:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from mail.netconsonance.com (mail.netconsonance.com [198.207.204.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A2068FC18; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:58:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from [172.16.12.8] (covad-jrhett.meer.net [209.157.140.144]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netconsonance.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m8IIw1jV062364; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:58:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netconsonance.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.433 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.433 tagged_above=-999 required=3.5 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1.44, AWL=-0.993] Message-Id: <2FDF3E2C-7344-4F70-BF71-4643E0E4DDD7@netconsonance.com> From: Jo Rhett To: Wilko Bulte In-Reply-To: <20080918124608.GK91598@freebie.xs4all.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v928.1) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:58:00 -0700 References: <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <20080918124608.GK91598@freebie.xs4all.nl> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.928.1) Cc: freebsd-stable , Wesley Shields , Robert Watson , Ben Kaduk , Nathan Way Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:58:38 -0000 On Sep 18, 2008, at 5:46 AM, Wilko Bulte wrote: > You seem to be *demanding* quite a lot lately. I have demanded nothing. I have made a suggestion or two -- presented the background which pretty much everyone agrees with, made some suggestions about how to improve it. My last post was expressing amusement about watching every developer dance around the topic, skipping over the relevant part -- how do we improve things? We could improve things. We could get more resources. Why not consider the topic? That's not demanding. Check your dictionary. -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 19:01:58 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90EBD106567E; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:01:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FDA88FC1C; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:01:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [65.122.17.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F142246B59; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:01:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:01:57 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Jo Rhett In-Reply-To: <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> Message-ID: References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <593618A3-56DA-4891-A4A0-690E9A9C5B32@netconsonance.com> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> User-Agent: Alpine 1.10 (BSF 962 2008-03-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-stable , Wesley Shields , Nathan Way , Ben Kaduk Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:01:58 -0000 On Wed, 17 Sep 2008, Jo Rhett wrote: > Please stop avoiding even considering what people are offering to you. So far, this conversation has largely consisted of you telling us that you don't like what we're doing and demanding that we change. Let's consider three more productive avenues by which you can offer assistance with the problem of how to increase branch support lifetimes: (1) Become a contributor to the community by developing and maintaining patches against unsupported branches, especially against older releases such as 4.x and 5.x where the branches are open for commits but have fallen out of support status. I can't promise the results will immediately fall into the official project "umbrella", but consider Colin Percival's freebsd-update as an example of what can be accomplished by someone outside the project when they find a niche. What started out as an external software project (freebsd-update) is now a core system update tool, and Colin has gone from being a random guy with some code to our security officer. (2) Become a contributor to the community by identifying members of the existing developer team for whom additional funding would enable them to spend more time working on and supporting FreeBSD and providing that funding. Consider approaching the FreeBSD Foundation formally to seek matching grant funding for the project. (3) Become a contributor to the community by working with an existing or new company that provides support for FreeBSD commercially, and discussing with them ways that they could provide support for branches past their official EoL date for the project. Companies like FreeBSD Mall have strong relationships with the project, and in the past have contributed significantly to efforts such as release engineering. It's not hard to imagine a company along those lines using something along th elines of a support subscription to fund community-centered support for branches. And those companies may be able to help you identify developers who can do the work, as well as play an active role in seeking further customers with similar interests. Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 19:03:45 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A06471065676 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:03:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from mail.netconsonance.com (mail.netconsonance.com [198.207.204.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D6668FC12 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:03:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from [172.16.12.8] (covad-jrhett.meer.net [209.157.140.144]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netconsonance.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m8IJ2HSt062533; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:02:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netconsonance.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.432 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.432 tagged_above=-999 required=3.5 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1.44, AWL=-0.992] Message-Id: From: Jo Rhett To: Wilko Bulte In-Reply-To: <20080918133211.GL91598@freebie.xs4all.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v928.1) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:02:17 -0700 References: <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <20080918124608.GK91598@freebie.xs4all.nl> <20080918131840.GA18595@icarus.home.lan> <20080918133211.GL91598@freebie.xs4all.nl> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.928.1) Cc: freebsd-stable , Jeremy Chadwick , Ben Kaduk , Robert Watson , Nathan Way , Wesley Shields Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:03:45 -0000 On Sep 18, 2008, at 6:32 AM, Wilko Bulte wrote: > Indeed, there is no easy solution. Extending support lifetime takes > more > resources of course. And my e-mails have always discussed ways to get more resources. Recently we even had a group of people trying to arrange for more explicit corporate support for testing and release process. For some reason unclear to me, not a single developer has stepped up and said "Great. Here's how we could use you..." The entire concept of getting *more resources* is the elephant in the room that everyone seems intent to avoid considering. Maybe, just maybe, there is some reason why FreeBSD doesn't want more people helping. Or ... something. I haven't the vaguest clue. If there is some reason why getting paid people to work on testing and release cycle is a bad idea, would someone please stand up and explain? -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 19:09:13 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40C731065679 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:09:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from mail.netconsonance.com (mail.netconsonance.com [198.207.204.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17EC28FC14 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:09:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from [172.16.12.8] (covad-jrhett.meer.net [209.157.140.144]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netconsonance.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m8IJ4lUj063084; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:04:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netconsonance.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.43 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.43 tagged_above=-999 required=3.5 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1.44, AWL=-0.990] Message-Id: <2EF98B3E-F245-42B7-B94C-3DB26047C4D8@netconsonance.com> From: Jo Rhett To: Freddie Cash In-Reply-To: <200809180821.32188.fjwcash@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v928.1) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:04:45 -0700 References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <200809180821.32188.fjwcash@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.928.1) Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:09:13 -0000 On Sep 18, 2008, at 8:21 AM, Freddie Cash wrote: > Maybe I'm missing something here, but it seems like Jo just wants to > argue > for the sake of arguing. You are missing a lot. You're not reading even half of what I am saying. re: ignored. I don't ignore anything. If something is answered clearly I tend to address topics which aren't resolved. But the section you quoted is your worst example -- If you look at my reply, you'll notice that not only did I not ignore it, I replied to that section with concerns about fluctuating schedules that this document presents. -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 19:13:59 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31DFA1065672 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:13:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AC588FC13 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:13:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [65.122.17.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9810846B35; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:13:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:13:58 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: "Oleg V. Nauman" In-Reply-To: <20080918180543.pt7s2zmaio48ww8g@webmail.opentransfer.com> Message-ID: References: <20080918180543.pt7s2zmaio48ww8g@webmail.opentransfer.com> User-Agent: Alpine 1.10 (BSF 962 2008-03-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: RELENG_7: something is very wrong with UDP? X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:13:59 -0000 On Thu, 18 Sep 2008, Oleg V. Nauman wrote: > It seems to be something is very wrong with UDP on latest RELENG_7 > > Well some symptoms I have seen today when I was trying to boot newly > compiled RELENG_7 on my laptop: > > a) rc scripts indefinitely waiting on logger to be completed during the boot > ( devd and ifconfig are good examples) If you hit "ctrl-t" while these are waiting, what is the output? > b) Sporadic DNS request failures I don't know what your comfortable level with debugging tools is, but if you're happy using tcpdump, etc, I think I'd recommend diagnosing this directly that way. I'd probably do something like this: (1) Start by deleting all but one nameserver entry in /etc/resolv.conf. Confirm that you can still reproduce the problem. (2) Use dig(1) and tcpdump(1) to watch wire-level DNS behavior -- do you see queries go out? Do you see replies come back? Is dig "waking up" and seeing the replies when they arrive, or is there a delay or hang in dig? If dig hangs, what does ctrl-t show the sleep state (wmesg) is? Could you also use procstat -k on the dig process to generate a kernel stack trace for it? > c) traceroute prints 0.00 like response time for every host > > d) was unable to reboot my laptop performing shutdown -r ( due to > logger/syslog related issues I think) Could you try killing syslogd by hand and see if it dies? If not, can you use procstat -kk to generate a stack trace for it? > e ) I was unable to start X session ( it seems to be freezes laptop because > I was unable to switch to another virtual console even) > > csup "backout" to date=2008.09.15.12.00.00 and recompiling the kernel fixes > this issue for me. This is approximately the date of my last UDP MFC. Could you try backing out just src/sys/netinet6/udp6_usrreq.c revision 1.81.2.7 and see if that helps? (specifically, restore the use of sosend_generic instead of sosend_dgram) Could you confirm that either you're not using any kernel modules from ports, or that if you are, you have recompiled them with your most recent update? Could you try compiling your kernel with WITNESS to see if we get any extended debugging information? > Is anybody experiencing the same issues with fresh RELENG_7? Unsure it is my > local issues though I'm not experiencing them, but these sorts of things can be quite subtle and workload-dependent. Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 19:15:33 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 899B81065673 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:15:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from mail.netconsonance.com (mail.netconsonance.com [198.207.204.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A61F8FC21 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:15:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from [172.16.12.8] (covad-jrhett.meer.net [209.157.140.144]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netconsonance.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m8IJBpI2064765; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:11:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netconsonance.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.429 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.429 tagged_above=-999 required=3.5 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1.44, AWL=-0.989] Message-Id: <12944D4C-5243-4EC7-8E1A-04A7735B5AEA@netconsonance.com> From: Jo Rhett To: Dylan Cochran In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v928.1) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:11:51 -0700 References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.928.1) Cc: freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:15:33 -0000 First, thanks for taking the question seriously ;-) On Sep 18, 2008, at 8:47 AM, Dylan Cochran wrote: > problem can't be solved just by extending time with the hope that the > resources will be allocated (no offense to your character, but that No offense taken. I would never suggest we do anything based on hope. In my company's specific case, we'd want to work out the details of exactly how much time we'd commit and what our goal was in committing that time. (besides the obvious "giving back to the community part" which we do anyway) Most of the people that I know personally who are interested in this topic are in similar situations. They would want to discuss the necessary resources to achieve a specific goal, and make specific commitments on the amount of time they could give. I seriously don't know anyone who wanders into any situation saying "oh, maybe if I help out the tooth fairy will visit me!" ;-) That said, I know little about the multi-architecture problems you present here so I can't offer much other commentary, other than: > problem is best solved not by arguing how to work around the symptoms, > but to analyze and solve the parent problems that may not be so > obvious. I suspect this above statement applies to every problem the release and testing teams have. What is necessary to get consensus to even discuss the issues involved? -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 19:18:23 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD8821065674 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:18:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from QMTA06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.56]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1FEC8FC15 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:18:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from OMTA07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.59]) by QMTA06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id GGSF1a00S1GXsucA6KJPjh; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:18:23 +0000 Received: from koitsu.dyndns.org ([67.180.253.227]) by OMTA07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id GKJN1a00P4v8bD78TKJNss; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:18:23 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=qgHwid8nRcoA:10 a=d1uKaSVsuw0A:10 a=QycZ5dHgAAAA:8 a=EVwO9xaTLD595zGxtV8A:9 a=qB5eZawVRMT8eBKopec4LNR32ZUA:4 a=EoioJ0NPDVgA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 Received: by icarus.home.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4C4A517B81A; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:18:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:18:22 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: "Oleg V. Nauman" Message-ID: <20080918191822.GA25698@icarus.home.lan> References: <20080918180543.pt7s2zmaio48ww8g@webmail.opentransfer.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080918180543.pt7s2zmaio48ww8g@webmail.opentransfer.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: RELENG_7: something is very wrong with UDP? X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:18:24 -0000 On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 06:05:43PM +0300, Oleg V. Nauman wrote: > c) traceroute prints 0.00 like response time for every host Interesting, since traceroute bases the RTT on the amount of time it takes between the initial packet sent (see below) and the time it receives the ICMP port unreachable response. Yes, I am fully aware traceroute uses UDP as the default protocol to induce said ICMP. That said, does the erroneous behaviour go away when using -P tcp? -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 19:22:10 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E8D7106569F; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:22:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BD7D8FC1F; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:22:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [65.122.17.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E286646B09; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:22:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:22:09 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Jo Rhett In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <20080918124608.GK91598@freebie.xs4all.nl> <20080918131840.GA18595@icarus.home.lan> <20080918133211.GL91598@freebie.xs4all.nl> User-Agent: Alpine 1.10 (BSF 962 2008-03-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-stable , Jeremy Chadwick , Ben Kaduk , Wilko Bulte , Nathan Way , Wesley Shields Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:22:10 -0000 On Thu, 18 Sep 2008, Jo Rhett wrote: > On Sep 18, 2008, at 6:32 AM, Wilko Bulte wrote: >> Indeed, there is no easy solution. Extending support lifetime takes more >> resources of course. > > And my e-mails have always discussed ways to get more resources. Recently > we even had a group of people trying to arrange for more explicit corporate > support for testing and release process. For some reason unclear to me, not > a single developer has stepped up and said "Great. Here's how we could use > you..." The entire concept of getting *more resources* is the elephant in > the room that everyone seems intent to avoid considering. No, we're just waiting for you to go ahead and do it. > Maybe, just maybe, there is some reason why FreeBSD doesn't want more people > helping. Or ... something. I haven't the vaguest clue. If there is some > reason why getting paid people to work on testing and release cycle is a bad > idea, would someone please stand up and explain? No, we'd love it if more people were paid to work on things like this, but there are two practical problems: (1) finding people, and (2) paying them. All of us are busy people -- we have jobs, we have houses with mortgages, etc, and those of us who are already spending a lot of time on FreeBSD are probably pretty maxed out without adding more to our plates. You seem to have a lot of energy to burn sending e-mail about how to improve the world, and I think what the rest of us would like to see is that energy get turned to the more practical part of the problem. If you are literally standing there with money that you can't figure out how to spend, contact the FreeBSD Foundation Board with a specific proposal regarding the amount of money and what you're trying to accomplish. Perhaps we can help you identify people who would take the money, companies that might want to be involved, help provide some matching funding, etc. However, it needs to be at least a strawman concrete proposal, because waving hands only gets you so far. And it has to be something worth taking time away from all the other things busy people get up to in life, such as optimizing network stacks, fixing file system bugs, supporting releases, etc, or the endeavour has hurt rather than helped. Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 19:24:52 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE6A3106566B; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:24:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from mail.netconsonance.com (mail.netconsonance.com [198.207.204.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A85788FC1C; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:24:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from [172.16.12.8] (covad-jrhett.meer.net [209.157.140.144]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netconsonance.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m8IJNkXZ065248; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:23:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netconsonance.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.427 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.427 tagged_above=-999 required=3.5 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1.44, AWL=-0.987] Message-Id: <15F15FD1-3C53-4018-8792-BC63289DC4C2@netconsonance.com> From: Jo Rhett To: Robert Watson In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v928.1) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:23:45 -0700 References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <593618A3-56DA-4891-A4A0-690E9A9C5B32@netconsonance.com> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.928.1) Cc: freebsd-stable , Wesley Shields , Nathan Way , Ben Kaduk Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:24:53 -0000 On Sep 18, 2008, at 12:01 PM, Robert Watson wrote: > So far, this conversation has largely consisted of you telling us > that you don't like what we're doing and demanding that we change. I'm not sure what is going on in your life to make you so defensive that someone saying "I have resources, I can help. Here's the problem I'd like to address" makes you think they are "demanding". Nobody is "demanding" anything (that I have seen in this conversation). Take a deep breath, stop taking this personal - which I assume you are when you talk about "demanding" and let's talk about this. Most of the rest of your post is valid. > Let's consider three more productive avenues by which you can offer > assistance with the problem of how to increase branch support > lifetimes: > > (1) Become a contributor to the community by developing and > maintaining > patches against unsupported branches, especially against older > releases > such as 4.x and 5.x where the branches are open for commits but > have > fallen out of support status. I can't promise the results will We have no 4.x or 5.x systems nor do we have any interest in maintaining those. So perhaps a good idea, but not something I can help with. I *did* offer to work on maintenance for 6.2, but was told it would be rejected by the developers. Would I extend effort to do exactly what I am talking about -- extending the support lifetime for very recent releases? Absolutely. If its in a form useful for the community as a whole. If I have to do this on my own (what we are doing internally now) then the FreeBSD community leverages nothing from the effort, and we're not changing the resources limitations at all. > (2) Become a contributor to the community by identifying members of > the > existing developer team for whom additional funding would enable > them to > spend more time working on and supporting FreeBSD and providing > that > funding. Consider approaching the FreeBSD Foundation formally to > seek > matching grant funding for the project. We have funded projects, we continue to fund projects. Most of our funding right now is aimed at people who don't have the time to work on it, money or no. But again, funding does not improve the resources problem in most cases. Many $EMPLOYERs find it easier to have an employee allocate 10-20% of their work to a project than to get cash allocations for the same. > (3) Become a contributor to the community by working with an > existing or new > company that provides support for FreeBSD commercially, and > discussing Nobody who does FreeBSD support on a paid basis can generally solve the kind of problems we find. I have tried these kind of things in the past with both FreeBSD and Linux, and in every case I was significantly better at finding/fixing/patching bugs than anyone on the team. The ones I could not address (usually device driver issues) the support team could do nothing more than forward a bug report to the developer. And in general, they were less good at including relevant details and debug output than I was. In short, it's a non-op. > official EoL date for the project. Companies like FreeBSD Mall > have > strong relationships with the project, and in the past have > contributed > significantly to efforts such as release engineering. It's not > hard to > imagine a company along those lines using something along th > elines of a Robert, here we go again. You have given several options, not a single one of which will provide more resources to the release team. The only thing you've successfully done is given me three different ways to eff off and leave you alone. Apparently, more resources is not in your interest. -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 19:25:54 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0471A106566C for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:25:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from smarthost1.sentex.ca (smarthost1.sentex.ca [64.7.153.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6C2A8FC16 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:25:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from lava.sentex.ca (pyroxene.sentex.ca [199.212.134.18]) by smarthost1.sentex.ca (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8IJPoUi084733; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:25:51 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from mdt-xp.sentex.net (simeon.sentex.ca [192.168.43.27]) by lava.sentex.ca (8.13.8/8.13.3) with ESMTP id m8IJPo3Z053187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:25:50 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Message-Id: <200809181925.m8IJPo3Z053187@lava.sentex.ca> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:25:51 -0400 To: Jo Rhett From: Mike Tancsa In-Reply-To: <12944D4C-5243-4EC7-8E1A-04A7735B5AEA@netconsonance.com> References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <12944D4C-5243-4EC7-8E1A-04A7735B5AEA@netconsonance.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 64.7.153.18 Cc: freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:25:54 -0000 At 03:11 PM 9/18/2008, Jo Rhett wrote: >committing that time. (besides the obvious "giving back to the >community part" which we do anyway) I am not familiar with your company nor any developers that work for you. Perhaps you could elaborate on how you have contributed to FreeBSD ? ---Mike From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 19:36:13 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40720106566B for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:36:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from mail.netconsonance.com (mail.netconsonance.com [198.207.204.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B6528FC1D for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:36:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from [172.16.12.8] (covad-jrhett.meer.net [209.157.140.144]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netconsonance.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m8IJZbOP065604; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:35:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netconsonance.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.426 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.426 tagged_above=-999 required=3.5 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1.44, AWL=-0.986] Message-Id: <5A9175CD-9D13-4A8D-BFE9-27C749FF8F5C@netconsonance.com> From: Jo Rhett To: Robert Watson In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v928.1) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:35:36 -0700 References: <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <20080918124608.GK91598@freebie.xs4all.nl> <20080918131840.GA18595@icarus.home.lan> <20080918133211.GL91598@freebie.xs4all.nl> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.928.1) Cc: freebsd-stable , Jeremy Chadwick , Ben Kaduk , Wilko Bulte , Nathan Way , Wesley Shields Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:36:13 -0000 > On Thu, 18 Sep 2008, Jo Rhett wrote: >> And my e-mails have always discussed ways to get more resources. >> Recently we even had a group of people trying to arrange for more >> explicit corporate support for testing and release process. For >> some reason unclear to me, not a single developer has stepped up >> and said "Great. Here's how we could use you..." The entire >> concept of getting *more resources* is the elephant in the room >> that everyone seems intent to avoid considering. On Sep 18, 2008, at 12:22 PM, Robert Watson wrote: > No, we're just waiting for you to go ahead and do it. Um, how? I suspect you're being sarcastic, but I'll take this at straight value. I have repeatedly said "I could commit X resources, and I know others who are likewise willing to make a proposal for the same with their employer, if our efforts could help improve Y problem." Not a single person, *not one*, has ever taken the proposal seriously enough to sit down and discuss with me what kind of resources are necessary to solve this problem. Seriously, go back and read every reply to me on this or the other thread. Every one says "We aren't going to do it." > No, we'd love it if more people were paid to work on things like > this, but there are two practical problems: (1) finding people, and > (2) paying them. At the moment I will only speak for myself, so let's start there. I write code. I do integration and testing for a living. I currently maintain a number of ports, including cfengine -- which I personally added the PKGMGR code to for FreeBSD support. My employer is paying my salary, and is willing to dedicate some of my time to the FreeBSD project as a whole. (already does in fact, on the table is to increase that amount) (1) you've found me and (2) I'm already being paid. There are others in the same situation. > All of us are busy people -- we have jobs, we have houses with > mortgages, etc, and those of us who are already spending a lot of > time on FreeBSD are probably pretty maxed out without adding more to > our plates. You seem to have a lot of energy to burn sending e-mail > about how to improve the world, and I think what the rest of us > would like to see is that energy get turned to the more practical > part of the problem. As would I. If we could focus on how to improve the situation which has been very well described, we'd be doing something. I don't think you have any idea how frustrating it has been -- I'm here. I'm ready to help. We need to determine how to do this... and nobody will even discuss the problems with me. (if this was a port or a single component then I'd just go run away and do it myself. But the release process is obviously much more complex and I couldn't possibly replicate it or extend it in any fashion from the outside) > If you are literally standing there with money that you can't figure > out how to spend, contact the FreeBSD Foundation Board with a > specific proposal regarding the amount of money and what you're > trying to accomplish. Perhaps we can help you identify people who > would take the money, companies that might want to be involved, help > provide some matching funding, etc. However, it needs to be at > least a strawman concrete proposal, because waving hands only gets > you so far. And it has to be something worth taking time away from > all the other things busy people get up to in life, such as > optimizing network stacks, fixing file system bugs, supporting > releases, etc, or the endeavour has hurt rather than helped. From our experience, there is a lot more money than there is people's time to address the problem. (as you note above and in the final sentence here) I'm trying to offer something -- more people, already paid, to provide more assistance. But since this involves the release process, we'd have to be integrated into the effort to be useful. FYI: this message is the first I've seen that is going somewhere good. I hope you'll take what I am saying seriously. I'm going to stop replying to many of the other subthreads because they aren't going anywhere good, and I'm probably replying too often anyway. -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 19:40:46 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9FA0106566C for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:40:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from mail.netconsonance.com (mail.netconsonance.com [198.207.204.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B895E8FC0C for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:40:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from [172.16.12.8] (covad-jrhett.meer.net [209.157.140.144]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netconsonance.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m8IJdjmB065713; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:39:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netconsonance.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.424 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.424 tagged_above=-999 required=3.5 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1.44, AWL=-0.984] Message-Id: <40E3236C-CAF7-406D-835F-948954F67D51@netconsonance.com> From: Jo Rhett To: Mike Tancsa In-Reply-To: <200809181925.m8IJPo3Z053187@lava.sentex.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v928.1) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:39:44 -0700 References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <12944D4C-5243-4EC7-8E1A-04A7735B5AEA@netconsonance.com> <200809181925.m8IJPo3Z053187@lava.sentex.ca> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.928.1) Cc: freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:40:46 -0000 On Sep 18, 2008, at 12:25 PM, Mike Tancsa wrote: > I am not familiar with your company nor any developers that work for > you. Perhaps you could elaborate on how you have contributed to > FreeBSD ? This domain is my vanity domain, actually. Well not vanity but the domain I use on the rare occasions when I do paid work for other companies. (used to be a lot more, is significantly less now) And no developers work for me. When I sold out my contract got an explicit "no head count" ;-) I likey ;-) In my $EMPLOYER the main proposal would be to dedicate more of my time. The others contribute at random, but I don't see that changing much due to their existing commitments. -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 19:46:18 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A41E1065676 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:46:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from smarthost1.sentex.ca (smarthost1.sentex.ca [64.7.153.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC7C88FC21 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:46:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from lava.sentex.ca (pyroxene.sentex.ca [199.212.134.18]) by smarthost1.sentex.ca (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8IJkGuV090768; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:46:16 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from mdt-xp.sentex.net (simeon.sentex.ca [192.168.43.27]) by lava.sentex.ca (8.13.8/8.13.3) with ESMTP id m8IJkFDa053266 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:46:15 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Message-Id: <200809181946.m8IJkFDa053266@lava.sentex.ca> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:46:16 -0400 To: Jo Rhett From: Mike Tancsa In-Reply-To: <40E3236C-CAF7-406D-835F-948954F67D51@netconsonance.com> References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <12944D4C-5243-4EC7-8E1A-04A7735B5AEA@netconsonance.com> <200809181925.m8IJPo3Z053187@lava.sentex.ca> <40E3236C-CAF7-406D-835F-948954F67D51@netconsonance.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 64.7.153.18 Cc: freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:46:18 -0000 At 03:39 PM 9/18/2008, Jo Rhett wrote: >On Sep 18, 2008, at 12:25 PM, Mike Tancsa wrote: >>I am not familiar with your company nor any developers that work for >>you. Perhaps you could elaborate on how you have contributed to >>FreeBSD ? > > >In my $EMPLOYER the main proposal would be to dedicate more of my >time. The others contribute at random, but I don't see that changing >much due to their existing commitments. I am sorry, I meant, what have you contributed currently or in the past to FreeBSD ? i.e. what code, or money or physical resources (hardware) or time testing code ? ---Mike From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 20:09:43 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78C5C1065677 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:09:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dalroi@solfertje.student.utwente.nl) Received: from solfertje.student.utwente.nl (solfertje.student.utwente.nl [130.89.167.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 043F88FC15 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:09:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dalroi@solfertje.student.utwente.nl) Received: from localhost (localhost.internal [127.0.0.1]) by solfertje.student.utwente.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 28BB580C9 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:44:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.236.150.4] (hollewijn.internal [10.236.150.4]) by solfertje.student.utwente.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B1E5803F; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:44:33 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <15F15FD1-3C53-4018-8792-BC63289DC4C2@netconsonance.com> References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <593618A3-56DA-4891-A4A0-690E9A9C5B32@netconsonance.com> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <15F15FD1-3C53-4018-8792-BC63289DC4C2@netconsonance.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alban Hertroys Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:44:31 +0200 To: Jo Rhett X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753.1) X-DSPAM-Result: Innocent X-DSPAM-Processed: Thu Sep 18 21:44:37 2008 X-DSPAM-Confidence: 1.0000 X-DSPAM-Probability: 0.0023 X-DSPAM-Signature: 74,48d2afa510139919116692 X-DSPAM-Factors: 27, References*3C53+4018, 0.40000, only+I, 0.40000, but, 0.40000, but, 0.40000, Received*Sep, 0.40000, From*Alban, 0.40000, can+>, 0.40000, just, 0.40000, Message-Id*8ED0+EC36544AB702, 0.40000, commits+but, 0.40000, Mime-Version*Message, 0.40000, In-Reply-To*netconsonance.com>, 0.40000, References*fledge.watson.org>+<0C2C7E9B, 0.40000, References*A4A0, 0.40000, or, 0.40000, or, 0.40000, References*<593618A3+56DA, 0.40000, References*, Wesley Shields , Robert Watson , Ben Kaduk , Nathan Way Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:09:43 -0000 On Sep 18, 2008, at 9:23 PM, Jo Rhett wrote: > On Sep 18, 2008, at 12:01 PM, Robert Watson wrote: >> Let's consider three more productive avenues by which you can >> offer assistance with the problem of how to increase branch >> support lifetimes: >> >> (1) Become a contributor to the community by developing and >> maintaining >> patches against unsupported branches, especially against older >> releases >> such as 4.x and 5.x where the branches are open for commits but >> have >> fallen out of support status. I can't promise the results will > > We have no 4.x or 5.x systems nor do we have any interest in > maintaining those. So perhaps a good idea, but not something I can > help with. > > I *did* offer to work on maintenance for 6.2, but was told it would > be rejected by the developers. Would I extend effort to do exactly > what I am talking about -- extending the support lifetime for very > recent releases? Absolutely. If its in a form useful for the > community as a whole. Are you seriously insisting that a minor release should be supported for more than a year? I think that's pretty exceptional already for any piece of software, and yet you want to extend that? I don't know what your line of work demands, but maybe you're not as constrained as you think you are? The support lifetime of FreeBSD 6 (the major release) is estimated to be up to somewhere in 2010, according to the release information, which seems to satisfy your needs. To me this is a rhetorical question only, I have no way to apply any answers I get to these questions. I'm not involved in the FreeBSD project or in your line of work, I'm just a humble user and supporter. Alban Hertroys -- If you can't see the forest for the trees, cut the trees and you'll see there is no forest. !DSPAM:74,48d2afa510139919116692! From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 20:14:17 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BAC81065671 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:14:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from mail.netconsonance.com (mail.netconsonance.com [198.207.204.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 489638FC0C for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:14:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from [172.16.12.8] (covad-jrhett.meer.net [209.157.140.144]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netconsonance.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m8IKDJKg066838; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 13:13:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netconsonance.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.422 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.422 tagged_above=-999 required=3.5 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1.44, AWL=-0.982] Message-Id: <9ECDD71F-D4EB-4846-AB12-40B123AE7E16@netconsonance.com> From: Jo Rhett To: Mike Tancsa In-Reply-To: <200809181946.m8IJkFDa053266@lava.sentex.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v928.1) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 13:13:18 -0700 References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <12944D4C-5243-4EC7-8E1A-04A7735B5AEA@netconsonance.com> <200809181925.m8IJPo3Z053187@lava.sentex.ca> <40E3236C-CAF7-406D-835F-948954F67D51@netconsonance.com> <200809181946.m8IJkFDa053266@lava.sentex.ca> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.928.1) Cc: freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:14:17 -0000 On Sep 18, 2008, at 12:46 PM, Mike Tancsa wrote: > I am sorry, I meant, what have you contributed currently or in the > past to FreeBSD ? i.e. what code, or money or physical resources > (hardware) or time testing code ? I do a lot of testing and patches regarding components we use. Search the PRs. I maintain several ports. I built freebsd package management into cfengine, and greatly extended the package management functionality above and beyond to support every operation freebsd can take on a package. We host numerous freebsd developers in our facility for nearly nothing. We pay for development of features that we need but don't have the appropriate skills to fix ourselves. We sponsor freebsd promotional activity, like the MeetBSD conference coming up this November. In short, we support FreeBSD in every way that I am aware of there is to support it. -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 20:35:44 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20701106566C for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:35:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-stable-local@be-well.ilk.org) Received: from be-well.ilk.org (dsl092-078-145.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.78.145]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBC828FC15 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:35:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-stable-local@be-well.ilk.org) Received: by be-well.ilk.org (Postfix, from userid 1147) id 847FB28444; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:20:20 -0400 (EDT) To: Jo Rhett References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <593618A3-56DA-4891-A4A0-690E9A9C5B32@netconsonance.com> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <15F15FD1-3C53-4018-8792-BC63289DC4C2@netconsonance.com> From: Lowell Gilbert Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:20:20 -0400 In-Reply-To: <15F15FD1-3C53-4018-8792-BC63289DC4C2@netconsonance.com> (Jo Rhett's message of "Thu\, 18 Sep 2008 12\:23\:45 -0700") Message-ID: <448wtpcikb.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.2 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: freebsd-stable , Robert Watson Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:35:44 -0000 Jo Rhett writes: > We have no 4.x or 5.x systems nor do we have any interest in > maintaining those. So perhaps a good idea, but not something I can > help with. > > I *did* offer to work on maintenance for 6.2, but was told it would be > rejected by the developers. Would I extend effort to do exactly what > I am talking about -- extending the support lifetime for very recent > releases? Absolutely. If its in a form useful for the community as a > whole. > > If I have to do this on my own (what we are doing internally now) then > the FreeBSD community leverages nothing from the effort, and we're not > changing the resources limitations at all. I've kind of lost the drift, but it sounds to me as though Jo Rhett is tentatively offering to take on extended support for 6.2, but not earlier versions. Aside from programming skills, what would Jo need to bring to the table in order to provide that back to the project? Is that a reasonable statement of what's on discussion here? [Sorry for putting words into people's mouths, but I need a more concrete discussion in order to be sure I know what anybody actually means.] From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 21:03:07 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 305BC106564A for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:03:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from smarthost1.sentex.ca (smarthost1.sentex.ca [64.7.153.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E747B8FC1F for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:03:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from lava.sentex.ca (pyroxene.sentex.ca [199.212.134.18]) by smarthost1.sentex.ca (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8IL34n9006183; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 17:03:04 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from mdt-xp.sentex.net (simeon.sentex.ca [192.168.43.27]) by lava.sentex.ca (8.13.8/8.13.3) with ESMTP id m8IL34r2053611 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 18 Sep 2008 17:03:04 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Message-Id: <200809182103.m8IL34r2053611@lava.sentex.ca> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 17:03:05 -0400 To: Jo Rhett From: Mike Tancsa In-Reply-To: <9ECDD71F-D4EB-4846-AB12-40B123AE7E16@netconsonance.com> References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <12944D4C-5243-4EC7-8E1A-04A7735B5AEA@netconsonance.com> <200809181925.m8IJPo3Z053187@lava.sentex.ca> <40E3236C-CAF7-406D-835F-948954F67D51@netconsonance.com> <200809181946.m8IJkFDa053266@lava.sentex.ca> <9ECDD71F-D4EB-4846-AB12-40B123AE7E16@netconsonance.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 64.7.153.18 Cc: freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:03:07 -0000 At 04:13 PM 9/18/2008, Jo Rhett wrote: >On Sep 18, 2008, at 12:46 PM, Mike Tancsa wrote: >>I am sorry, I meant, what have you contributed currently or in the >>past to FreeBSD ? i.e. what code, or money or physical resources >>(hardware) or time testing code ? > > >I do a lot of testing and patches regarding components we use. Search >the PRs. I maintain several ports. I had a search and I see some PRs you have submitted, but I guess you commit under a different @freebsd.org email address ? > I built freebsd package >management into cfengine, and greatly extended the package management >functionality above and beyond to support every operation freebsd can >take on a package. > We host numerous freebsd developers in our >facility for nearly nothing. Thats most excellent! I think people would take your suggestions with greater gravity if you reminded them with a few URLs to point out the various commit messages that say, "sponsored by netconsonance" etc. Or perhaps a few of these numerous developers could speak up on your behalf? > We pay for development of features that >we need but don't have the appropriate skills to fix ourselves. That then went back into FreeBSD ? Can you give examples ? I ask all this as you really, really want things to change, and you say you have resources to offer, yet you seem to have alienated a LOT of people from previously similar threads (http://freebsd.monkey.org/freebsd-stable/200806/msg00037.html) You advocate that people not reject your offers of help and resources, yet at the same time respond to developers who actually do a LOT of work and were going to look at what you have to offer by way of bug reports that you are way too busy to oblige http://freebsd.monkey.org/freebsd-stable/200806/msg00069.html Perhaps if you posted some references to success stories you have had with the FreeBSD developer community at large, this would help make your case. ---Mike From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 21:07:32 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FEE0106566C for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:07:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0D3F8FC08 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:07:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [65.122.17.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F8E846B38; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 17:07:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 22:07:31 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Lowell Gilbert In-Reply-To: <448wtpcikb.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> Message-ID: References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <593618A3-56DA-4891-A4A0-690E9A9C5B32@netconsonance.com> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <15F15FD1-3C53-4018-8792-BC63289DC4C2@netconsonance.com> <448wtpcikb.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> User-Agent: Alpine 1.10 (BSF 962 2008-03-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: Jo Rhett , freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:07:32 -0000 On Thu, 18 Sep 2008, Lowell Gilbert wrote: > Jo Rhett writes: > >> We have no 4.x or 5.x systems nor do we have any interest in maintaining >> those. So perhaps a good idea, but not something I can help with. >> >> I *did* offer to work on maintenance for 6.2, but was told it would be >> rejected by the developers. Would I extend effort to do exactly what I am >> talking about -- extending the support lifetime for very recent releases? >> Absolutely. If its in a form useful for the community as a whole. >> >> If I have to do this on my own (what we are doing internally now) then the >> FreeBSD community leverages nothing from the effort, and we're not changing >> the resources limitations at all. > > I've kind of lost the drift, but it sounds to me as though Jo Rhett is > tentatively offering to take on extended support for 6.2, but not earlier > versions. Aside from programming skills, what would Jo need to bring to the > table in order to provide that back to the project? Is that a reasonable > statement of what's on discussion here? > > [Sorry for putting words into people's mouths, but I need a more concrete > discussion in order to be sure I know what anybody actually means.] What Jo needs to do is what we expect from other participants in the project who want to take on positions of responsibility: build a long-term track record of contributions so that we can trust that when they agree to take on obligations (and we advertise those claims, be it by changing branch lifetimes, accepting WIP feature contributions, etc), they will be fulfilled. Developers offer to mentor new contributors and help shepherd their work when they see that the contributor both has a clear technical contribution to offer *and* that they build necessary rapport and confidence that the investment of time by the mentor is worthwhile. Everyone on this list is a busy person and values their time, and mentoring a developer is a highly non-trivial investment of time, and in most cases, it's a donation of personal time. It is potentially very rewarding, but a lot of work. Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 21:27:09 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92958106566C for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:27:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from QMTA04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BAD48FC18 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:27:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from OMTA02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.19]) by QMTA04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id GAuS1a0080QkzPwA4MT9N4; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:27:09 +0000 Received: from koitsu.dyndns.org ([67.180.253.227]) by OMTA02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id GMT71a0074v8bD78NMT7Nu; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:27:08 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=l1b6aXiS2cYA:10 a=T-PJXEmqAAAA:8 a=QycZ5dHgAAAA:8 a=vtEkhlrjhK6421jdrhIA:9 a=oVP6P88HRgfzNejITZgA:7 a=qW3GUIsrEEXzU5euPXFJUa33RLgA:4 a=fgf5PR_cwQYA:10 a=EoioJ0NPDVgA:10 a=SV7veod9ZcQA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 Received: by icarus.home.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4772B17B81A; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:27:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:27:07 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Mike Tancsa Message-ID: <20080918212707.GA27780@icarus.home.lan> References: <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <12944D4C-5243-4EC7-8E1A-04A7735B5AEA@netconsonance.com> <200809181925.m8IJPo3Z053187@lava.sentex.ca> <40E3236C-CAF7-406D-835F-948954F67D51@netconsonance.com> <200809181946.m8IJkFDa053266@lava.sentex.ca> <9ECDD71F-D4EB-4846-AB12-40B123AE7E16@netconsonance.com> <200809182103.m8IL34r2053611@lava.sentex.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200809182103.m8IL34r2053611@lava.sentex.ca> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: Jo Rhett , freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:27:09 -0000 On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 05:03:05PM -0400, Mike Tancsa wrote: > At 04:13 PM 9/18/2008, Jo Rhett wrote: >> On Sep 18, 2008, at 12:46 PM, Mike Tancsa wrote: >>> I am sorry, I meant, what have you contributed currently or in the >>> past to FreeBSD ? i.e. what code, or money or physical resources >>> (hardware) or time testing code ? >> >> >> I do a lot of testing and patches regarding components we use. Search >> the PRs. I maintain several ports. > > I had a search and I see some PRs you have submitted, but I guess you > commit under a different @freebsd.org email address ? I don't think Jo has a freebsd.org account or mail address. Netconsonance is more or less Jo's own personal/contracting thing, as I understand it, while one of his employers is SVColo (who you WILL see mentioned in commit messages). >> We pay for development of features that >> we need but don't have the appropriate skills to fix ourselves. > > That then went back into FreeBSD ? Can you give examples ? I ask > all this as you really, really want things to change, and you say you > have resources to offer, yet you seem to have alienated a LOT of people > from previously similar threads > (http://freebsd.monkey.org/freebsd-stable/200806/msg00037.html) > > You advocate that people not reject your offers of help and resources, > yet at the same time respond to developers who actually do a LOT of work > and were going to look at what you have to offer by way of bug reports > that you are way too busy to oblige > http://freebsd.monkey.org/freebsd-stable/200806/msg00069.html I'm sorry to see that this thread has reached the point where Jo's character has come into question. This path is too commonly taken within this community (read: BSD); the equivalent of doing burn-outs in a parking lot (lots of smoke, zero gain). If Jo's character is truly under scrutiny, be aware that I will stand up for him, as I've interacted with him professionally (read: at my day job, for network outages or other anomalies -- and no, my day job is unrelated to my signature). What surprises me is, sans Robert, everyone seems to be taking what Jo says as a form of flaming, borderline trolling. But in all my years (including on IRC, which should give you some insight to what my definition of "troll" is), I don't know of anyone who would spend this amount of effort and time discussing an issue at length if they did not have professional and/or personal interest in it. If Jo was just "stirring up the ants", this topic wouldn't keep coming up. Likewise, SVColo would not have donated money to meetBSD if they didn't care; and for SVColo to care, that means there's a professional reliance on something (in this case, FreeBSD). Jo is often that representative. I do not deny the mails are "heated", and express both frustration and concern, but I don't see anything insulting in them. Possibly this topic could be discussed amongst interested parties at meetBSD. I will be there, and would be more than happy to participate in such a discussion -- or at least take notes. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 21:41:36 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD0861065681; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:41:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from mail.netconsonance.com (mail.netconsonance.com [198.207.204.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 878FF8FC14; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:41:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from [172.16.12.8] (covad-jrhett.meer.net [209.157.140.144]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netconsonance.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m8ILevjI069739; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:40:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netconsonance.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.418 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.418 tagged_above=-999 required=3.5 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1.44, AWL=-0.978] Message-Id: From: Jo Rhett To: Lowell Gilbert In-Reply-To: <448wtpcikb.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v928.1) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:40:56 -0700 References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <593618A3-56DA-4891-A4A0-690E9A9C5B32@netconsonance.com> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <15F15FD1-3C53-4018-8792-BC63289DC4C2@netconsonance.com> <448wtpcikb.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.928.1) Cc: freebsd-stable , Robert Watson Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:41:36 -0000 On Sep 18, 2008, at 1:20 PM, Lowell Gilbert wrote: > I've kind of lost the drift, but it sounds to me as though Jo Rhett is > tentatively offering to take on extended support for 6.2, but not > earlier versions. Aside from programming skills, what would Jo need > to bring to the table in order to provide that back to the project? > Is that a reasonable statement of what's on discussion here? > > [Sorry for putting words into people's mouths, but I need a more > concrete discussion in order to be sure I know what anybody actually > means.] Thank you. If you don't mind I'd prefer to widen the scope a touch because 6.2 will eventually go away, and frankly it is probably better to look forward than to resurrect an unsupported version. So I would probably state: Jo's $EMPLOYER has significant interest in longer support for -REL versions. Enough to fund my time supporting the mainstream project. What would Jo (or anyone else in a similar situation) need to bring to the table in order to provide back to the project? -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 21:48:17 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0CEE1065672 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:48:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from mail.netconsonance.com (mail.netconsonance.com [198.207.204.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB9638FC1D for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:48:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from [172.16.12.8] (covad-jrhett.meer.net [209.157.140.144]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netconsonance.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m8ILkuKQ069970; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:46:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netconsonance.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.417 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.417 tagged_above=-999 required=3.5 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1.44, AWL=-0.977] Message-Id: From: Jo Rhett To: Mike Tancsa In-Reply-To: <200809182103.m8IL34r2053611@lava.sentex.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v928.1) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:46:56 -0700 References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <12944D4C-5243-4EC7-8E1A-04A7735B5AEA@netconsonance.com> <200809181925.m8IJPo3Z053187@lava.sentex.ca> <40E3236C-CAF7-406D-835F-948954F67D51@netconsonance.com> <200809181946.m8IJkFDa053266@lava.sentex.ca> <9ECDD71F-D4EB-4846-AB12-40B123AE7E16@netconsonance.com> <200809182103.m8IL34r2053611@lava.sentex.ca> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.928.1) Cc: freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:48:18 -0000 On Sep 18, 2008, at 2:03 PM, Mike Tancsa wrote: > I had a search and I see some PRs you have submitted, but I guess > you commit under a different @freebsd.org email address ? I don't commit. I submit and others commit. This hasn't really been a handicap ;-) > Thats most excellent! I think people would take your suggestions > with greater gravity if you reminded them with a few URLs to point > out the various commit messages that say, "sponsored by > netconsonance" etc. Or perhaps a few of these numerous developers > could speak up on your behalf? Again, netconsonance is "Jo" and a few random others that contract via the company to avoid having to create their own company. The "We" in most of my discussions is my $EMPLOYER. And you can see their logos and name listed in numerous places. >> We pay for development of features that >> we need but don't have the appropriate skills to fix ourselves. > > That then went back into FreeBSD ? Can you give examples ? I > ask all this as you really, really want things to change, and you > say you have \ I'm sorry, but I have neither the time nor the interest in trying to provide a FreeBSD resume to someone. This is a tangent, and never in my experience has a tangent moved the original discussion forward. Are you in a position to make changes? What role in this do you have? What value is there answering these questions? (which have been answered many times if you google for them) I'd rather just drop this tangent. -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 22:02:14 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADDFB1065675 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 22:02:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lambert@lambertfam.org) Received: from sysmon.tcworks.net (sysmon.tcworks.net [65.66.76.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 721388FC1E for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 22:02:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lambert@lambertfam.org) Received: from sysmon.tcworks.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sysmon.tcworks.net (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id m8IM2Dgv040637 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 17:02:13 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from lambert@lambertfam.org) Received: (from lambert@localhost) by sysmon.tcworks.net (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id m8IM2Dlx040636 for freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 17:02:13 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from lambert@lambertfam.org) X-Authentication-Warning: sysmon.tcworks.net: lambert set sender to lambert@lambertfam.org using -f Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 17:02:13 -0500 From: Scott Lambert To: freebsd-stable Message-ID: <20080918220213.GA94268@sysmon.tcworks.net> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-stable References: <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <15F15FD1-3C53-4018-8792-BC63289DC4C2@netconsonance.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <15F15FD1-3C53-4018-8792-BC63289DC4C2@netconsonance.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Cc: Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-stable List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 22:02:14 -0000 On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 12:23:45PM -0700, Jo Rhett wrote: > On Sep 18, 2008, at 12:01 PM, Robert Watson wrote: > > (1) Become a contributor to the community by developing and > > maintaining patches against unsupported branches, especially against > > older releases such as 4.x and 5.x where the branches are open for > > commits but have fallen out of support status. I can't promise the > > results will > > We have no 4.x or 5.x systems nor do we have any interest in > maintaining those. So perhaps a good idea, but not something I can > help with. > > I *did* offer to work on maintenance for 6.2, but was told it would be > rejected by the developers. Would I extend effort to do exactly what > I am talking about -- extending the support lifetime for very recent > releases? Absolutely. If its in a form useful for the community as a > whole. > > If I have to do this on my own (what we are doing internally now) then > the FreeBSD community leverages nothing from the effort, and we're not > changing the resources limitations at all. I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm just writing this message because it looks to me like there is a lot of talking past one another going on between people who are basically in violent agreement with one another. I am hoping that wording things differently will lead to understanding on both sides. I may have completely misinterpreted both sides. Spoken languages are too ambiguous. Here is the boiled down gist of my interpretation of a possible way to go forward with this; bad pseudo code: RESOURCES='Jo and the others he seems to know of who back port fixes to their production versions of "unsupported" versions of FreeBSD.' For i in "RELENG_X_Y" (where X_Y is not a currently "supported" version of FreeBSD); do grant maintenance commit access for $i to ${RESOURCES} done; Now for the code documentation: Maybe one of the ${RESOURCES} could build some web application whereby people could sign up to be a "community extended support" resource for RELENG_X_Y until $date_in_the_future. Perhaps a letter of commitment from ${RESOURCE}s ${EMPLOYER} would be required before accepting the candidate for work on RELENG_X_Y. Then the existing developers or core team could approve their application/access and provide a mentor if they aren't currently commiters. (This is some extra work for the existing people. But hopefully the rewards would be worth the minimal? effort.) Eventually, the mentor pool could be wholly from ${RESOURCES}. Much of the approval of new candidates would be from the same pool. The whole thing might have to be conditional on ${RESOURCES} bringing the necessary tinderbox type hardware to do basic QA on their extended support branches. With enough ${RESOURCES} signed up, they might be able to get hardware from ${DONORS} other than themselves. The ${RESOURCES} people could gang up on which RELENG_X_Ys they want to support. They can support them for as long as they have people on the team who are interested in supporting them. Presumably, these people would be working for companies which have made a commitment to use RELENG_X_Y for N years. In this way, the companies which are already paying their people to apply security fixes to old releases can donate the work which is already being done back to the project. Hopefully they will end up sharing the load so that they reap the benefits of work done by other companies which are paying people to do the same things. So long as the requirements for a back port to the ${RESOURCES} supported branches are the same as to an officially supported branch, there shouldn't be much chance of harm. Perhaps they are only allowed to back port fixes which have been approved for a supported RELENG_X_Y. Eventually, if enough ${RESOURCES} sign up, they might be able to release X.Y.z distribution media. If they only provide the media for CD/DVD purchase, the revenue might help to provide for QA tinderboxes for the ${RESOURCES} supported work. We might even end up with more people who are familiar with the release process and volunteer to work on RELENG_X_Y from initial release all the way through normal end of support and into the community extended support period. I think that would provide, as much as is possible, for the "don't make extra work for the existing developers" requirement as well as giving these resources a way to "put up or shut up." I could be wrong. -- Scott Lambert KC5MLE Unix SysAdmin lambert@lambertfam.org From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 22:03:23 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A6551065672; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 22:03:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from smtp-vbr13.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr13.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 084418FC12; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 22:03:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (freebie.xs4all.nl [82.95.250.254]) by smtp-vbr13.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m8IM3IcX016476; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:03:18 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8IM2wrX002746; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:02:58 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: (from wb@localhost) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m8IM2qGY002745; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:02:52 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:02:52 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: Jo Rhett Message-ID: <20080918220252.GB2622@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <20080918124608.GK91598@freebie.xs4all.nl> <2FDF3E2C-7344-4F70-BF71-4643E0E4DDD7@netconsonance.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2FDF3E2C-7344-4F70-BF71-4643E0E4DDD7@netconsonance.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Cc: freebsd-stable , Wesley Shields , Robert Watson , Ben Kaduk , Nathan Way Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 22:03:23 -0000 Quoting Jo Rhett, who wrote on Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 11:58:00AM -0700 .. > On Sep 18, 2008, at 5:46 AM, Wilko Bulte wrote: > > You seem to be *demanding* quite a lot lately. > > > I have demanded nothing. I have made a suggestion or two -- presented > the background which pretty much everyone agrees with, made some > suggestions about how to improve it. > > My last post was expressing amusement about watching every developer > dance around the topic, skipping over the relevant part -- how do we > improve things? > We could improve things. We could get more resources. Why not > consider the topic? > > That's not demanding. Check your dictionary. I do not need a dictionary thank you very much. Wilko From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 22:30:21 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FE65106567A for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 22:30:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from mail.netconsonance.com (mail.netconsonance.com [198.207.204.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EA518FC1E for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 22:30:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from [172.16.12.8] (covad-jrhett.meer.net [209.157.140.144]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netconsonance.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m8IMSuGq071390 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:28:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netconsonance.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.416 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.416 tagged_above=-999 required=3.5 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1.44, AWL=-0.976] Message-Id: From: Jo Rhett To: freebsd-stable In-Reply-To: <20080918220213.GA94268@sysmon.tcworks.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v928.1) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:28:55 -0700 References: <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <15F15FD1-3C53-4018-8792-BC63289DC4C2@netconsonance.com> <20080918220213.GA94268@sysmon.tcworks.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.928.1) Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 22:30:21 -0000 I agree with pretty much everything you've said here, with the obvious exception that I don't know what's involved in the release management process to do as you've said. Also for my own self, rather than resurrect 6.2 I'd personally rather focus on what we could do to extend the support period for 6.4. And other releases going forward. In particular, I'd like to highlight what you said here because you've said very clearly what I've been trying (apparently not so well) to say for some time now: > In this way, the companies which are already paying their people to > apply security fixes to old releases can donate the work which is > already being done back to the project. Hopefully they will end up > sharing the load so that they reap the benefits of work done by other > companies which are paying people to do the same things. Thanks. On Sep 18, 2008, at 3:02 PM, Scott Lambert wrote: > I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm just writing this message > because > it looks to me like there is a lot of talking past one another going > on > between people who are basically in violent agreement with one > another. > I am hoping that wording things differently will lead to understanding > on both sides. I may have completely misinterpreted both sides. > Spoken > languages are too ambiguous. > > Here is the boiled down gist of my interpretation of a possible way to > go forward with this; bad pseudo code: > > RESOURCES='Jo and the others he seems to know of who back port fixes > to > their production versions of "unsupported" versions of > FreeBSD.' > > For i in "RELENG_X_Y" (where X_Y is not a currently "supported" > version of FreeBSD); do > grant maintenance commit access for $i to ${RESOURCES} > done; > > Now for the code documentation: > > Maybe one of the ${RESOURCES} could build some web application whereby > people could sign up to be a "community extended support" resource for > RELENG_X_Y until $date_in_the_future. Perhaps a letter of commitment > from ${RESOURCE}s ${EMPLOYER} would be required before accepting the > candidate for work on RELENG_X_Y. > > Then the existing developers or core team could approve their > application/access and provide a mentor if they aren't currently > commiters. (This is some extra work for the existing people. But > hopefully the rewards would be worth the minimal? effort.) > > Eventually, the mentor pool could be wholly from ${RESOURCES}. Much > of the approval of new candidates would be from the same pool. The > whole thing might have to be conditional on ${RESOURCES} bringing the > necessary tinderbox type hardware to do basic QA on their extended > support branches. With enough ${RESOURCES} signed up, they might be > able to get hardware from ${DONORS} other than themselves. > > The ${RESOURCES} people could gang up on which RELENG_X_Ys they want > to > support. They can support them for as long as they have people on the > team who are interested in supporting them. Presumably, these people > would be working for companies which have made a commitment to use > RELENG_X_Y for N years. > > In this way, the companies which are already paying their people to > apply security fixes to old releases can donate the work which is > already being done back to the project. Hopefully they will end up > sharing the load so that they reap the benefits of work done by other > companies which are paying people to do the same things. > > So long as the requirements for a back port to the ${RESOURCES} > supported branches are the same as to an officially supported branch, > there shouldn't be much chance of harm. Perhaps they are only allowed > to back port fixes which have been approved for a supported > RELENG_X_Y. > > Eventually, if enough ${RESOURCES} sign up, they might be able to > release X.Y.z distribution media. If they only provide the media for > CD/DVD purchase, the revenue might help to provide for QA tinderboxes > for the ${RESOURCES} supported work. > > We might even end up with more people who are familiar with the > release > process and volunteer to work on RELENG_X_Y from initial release all > the way through normal end of support and into the community extended > support period. > > I think that would provide, as much as is possible, for the "don't > make > extra work for the existing developers" requirement as well as giving > these resources a way to "put up or shut up." I could be wrong. > > -- > Scott Lambert KC5MLE Unix > SysAdmin > lambert@lambertfam.org > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org > " -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 18 22:33:42 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E44431065672; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 22:33:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bms@FreeBSD.org) Received: from out1.smtp.messagingengine.com (out1.smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B79D08FC13; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 22:33:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bms@FreeBSD.org) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.internal [10.202.2.41]) by out1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 541451634B3; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:33:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from heartbeat2.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.161]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:33:42 -0400 X-Sasl-enc: PQwDykYyP5q7+L7yIKCSwADAiST0yTVEN67O2VZZjUSk 1221777222 Received: from empiric.lon.incunabulum.net (82-35-112-254.cable.ubr07.dals.blueyonder.co.uk [82.35.112.254]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A7C8F2C9E6; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:33:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <48D2D744.40304@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 23:33:40 +0100 From: "Bruce M. Simpson" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080514) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michel Talon , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, jhb@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20080918075306.GA30709@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <200809181618.m8IGIj2P050390@lurza.secnetix.de> <20080918183250.GA48347@lpthe.jussieu.fr> In-Reply-To: <20080918183250.GA48347@lpthe.jussieu.fr> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: Re: floppy disk controller broken X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 22:33:43 -0000 You could try formatting the floppy in a USB drive. Someone was going to pick this up, finish it off, and commit it, but I haven't heard back from them: http://people.freebsd.org/~bms/dump/tools/ufdformat/ From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 19 00:06:14 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97CBB106567A for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:06:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from smarthost1.sentex.ca (smarthost1.sentex.ca [64.7.153.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51F578FC17 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:06:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from lava.sentex.ca (pyroxene.sentex.ca [199.212.134.18]) by smarthost1.sentex.ca (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8J06Bls021647; Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:06:11 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from mdt-xp.sentex.net (simeon.sentex.ca [192.168.43.27]) by lava.sentex.ca (8.13.8/8.13.3) with ESMTP id m8J06Bih054261 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:06:11 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Message-Id: <200809190006.m8J06Bih054261@lava.sentex.ca> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:06:12 -0400 To: Jo Rhett From: Mike Tancsa In-Reply-To: References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <12944D4C-5243-4EC7-8E1A-04A7735B5AEA@netconsonance.com> <200809181925.m8IJPo3Z053187@lava.sentex.ca> <40E3236C-CAF7-406D-835F-948954F67D51@netconsonance.com> <200809181946.m8IJkFDa053266@lava.sentex.ca> <9ECDD71F-D4EB-4846-AB12-40B123AE7E16@netconsonance.com> <200809182103.m8IL34r2053611@lava.sentex.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 64.7.153.18 Cc: freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:06:14 -0000 At 05:46 PM 9/18/2008, Jo Rhett wrote: >I'd rather just drop this tangent. Me too. ---Mike From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 19 08:59:57 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EACCA1065670 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 08:59:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stefan.lambrev@moneybookers.com) Received: from blah.sun-fish.com (blah.sun-fish.com [217.18.249.150]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92CC18FC1A for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 08:59:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stefan.lambrev@moneybookers.com) Received: by blah.sun-fish.com (Postfix, from userid 1002) id E234A1B10F14; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 10:59:55 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on malcho.cmotd.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.6 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.4 Received: from hater.haters.org (hater.cmotd.com [192.168.3.125]) by blah.sun-fish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4A721B10F00; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 10:59:53 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <48D36A09.30802@moneybookers.com> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:59:53 +0300 From: Stefan Lambrev User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (X11/20080813) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jo Rhett References: <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <15F15FD1-3C53-4018-8792-BC63289DC4C2@netconsonance.com> <20080918220213.GA94268@sysmon.tcworks.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1251; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.94/8287/Fri Sep 19 10:13:26 2008 on blah.cmotd.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 08:59:58 -0000 Hi, Jo Rhett wrote: > I agree with pretty much everything you've said here, with the obvious > exception that I don't know what's involved in the release management > process to do as you've said. > > Also for my own self, rather than resurrect 6.2 I'd personally rather > focus on what we could do to extend the support period for 6.4. And > other releases going forward. If you want extended support period, you should go for 7.1 If I remember correctly .1 REL is supposed to be the target for all binary programs/drivers. But if your target is not only security fixes, but drivers (included in base) and new features then release is not working for you, right? Because new drivers are never back-ported to release, best they go to -stable, but you are not tracking -stable? As I understand if you track stable then you really do not care about the numbers after the dot - you are using just 6.x or 7.x (or 8.x in future) And 7-stable will not reach EOL at least next 4-5 years. Sorry if you already answer this, but the thread is very long and it's hard to track every mail in it. My simple question is how you plan to benefit if 7.1 have extended EOL? You will stick with 7.1Release (RELENG_7_1) and security patches, or to (RELENG_7) - which include new drivers? I'm asking because you said, that the main problem with EOL is not fixing bugs which you can do fine, but new drivers that are not back-ported. How you think this can be solved? Most business user do not want new driver to be masked as security update? -- Best Wishes, Stefan Lambrev ICQ# 24134177 From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 19 09:55:13 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BF461065673; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 09:55:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (unknown [IPv6:2a01:170:102f::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEA448FC25; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 09:55:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id m8J9t6Ch092127; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:55:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id m8J9t5mE092126; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:55:05 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from olli) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:55:05 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <200809190955.m8J9t5mE092126@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, talon@lpthe.jussieu.fr, jhb@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20080918183250.GA48347@lpthe.jussieu.fr> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-stable User-Agent: tin/1.8.3-20070201 ("Scotasay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/6.4-PRERELEASE-20080904 (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:55:11 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Subject: Re: floppy disk controller broken X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, talon@lpthe.jussieu.fr, jhb@FreeBSD.ORG List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 09:55:13 -0000 Michel Talon wrote: > Oliver Fromme wrote: > > Michel Talon wrote: > > > Moreover, trying to write to the floppy: > > > niobe# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/fd0 conv=noerror > > > dd: /dev/fd0: Input/output error > > > 5+0 records in > > > 4+0 records out > > > 2048 bytes transferred in 4.054404 secs (505 bytes/sec) > > > > > > I don't expect such result. Traditionnally writing works, while reading > > > may fail. > > > > Maybe I misunderstand what you're saying, but ... > > When I try to write to a floppy that has *not* been > > successfully formatted, I very much expect to get > > Input/output error. Anything else would be a bug. > > The floppy has certainly be formatted, in the past. Perhaps i > remember badly, i have not used floppies since years, but > in this case the behavior with Windows, Linux and ancient FreeBSD > was that you could write to the floppy, but could encounter errors > while reading. Since you mentioned "ancient" FreeBSD, I assume that was using buffered block devices, when FreeBSD still supported them? Nowadays /dev/fd0 is a character device which is unbuffered, i.e. your dd(1) command goes straight to the disk, and if the drive reports an error (typically sync mark not found if the floppy is unformatted), it goes back up to dd(1) immediately and you get Input/output error. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "We will perhaps eventually be writing only small modules which are identi- fied by name as they are used to build larger ones, so that devices like indentation, rather than delimiters, might become feasible for expressing local structure in the source language." -- Donald E. Knuth, 1974 From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 19 11:20:15 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 427FE106566C for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:20:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FE0C8FC18 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:20:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [65.122.17.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B5EF46B23; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 07:20:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:20:14 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Jo Rhett In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <593618A3-56DA-4891-A4A0-690E9A9C5B32@netconsonance.com> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <15F15FD1-3C53-4018-8792-BC63289DC4C2@netconsonance.com> <448wtpcikb.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> User-Agent: Alpine 1.10 (BSF 962 2008-03-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-stable , Lowell Gilbert Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:20:15 -0000 On Thu, 18 Sep 2008, Jo Rhett wrote: > Thank you. If you don't mind I'd prefer to widen the scope a touch because > 6.2 will eventually go away, and frankly it is probably better to look > forward than to resurrect an unsupported version. So I would probably > state: > > Jo's $EMPLOYER has significant interest in longer support for -REL versions. > Enough to fund my time supporting the mainstream project. What would Jo (or > anyone else in a similar situation) need to bring to the table in order to > provide back to the project? This is the same answer I gave Lowell, but let me expand on it slightly. Our community grants rights (read also: responsibilities) on the basis of credibility in the community. Here's a possible plan: In the first stage, you need to establish credibility with the community as someone able and willing to do the work. You can do this by doing hard bits of the work without getting "official" sanction by creating an "Unofficial security and errata support for EoL'd FreeBSD releases" web page. Be very careful to scope the work so that you're not over-committing and there's no misunderstanding of what you're trying to do. Flag certain branches as "in support", and for each of those branches, provide pointers to the security advisories and errata patches that you've backported. If you take a branch out of support for your page (are no longer interested in maintaining it), keep the old stuff around for historical reasons, but clearly marked as historical rather than active. This will allow you to gain experience in maintaining security and errata patches for FreeBSD branches (more different than you might think from maintaining patches locally), establish credibility with the community as a whole, but in particular with the FreeBSD developers who are responsible for doing similar work for supported branches. This in turn may convince them that they should invest their time in mentoring you for a FreeBSD commit bit, and potentially join the security or release engineering teams once you've established that you are a member of the developer team who works well with others, does good technical work, and who is in it for the long haul. Some downsides to this approach: (1) It doesn't give the immediate gratification of seeing the official support status extended for releases. However, as you say, you're already doing the work. (2) You don't gain early access to confidential vulnerability information as a member of the security team, so (a) you can't have the patches ready in advance of the advisory, and (b) if there are reports of vulnerabilities in versions you support but the FreeBSD security team doesn't, you might not receive it in a timely manner. However, it accepts the way the project works: we don't provide access to our CVS (SVN) repository to people unless they have a mentor willing to propose them, and that mentor has to argue on the basis of a proven track record that the contribution you will make justify commit access to the tree. Likewise, we don't grant membership to the security team to committers unless they've shown a longer term commitment even than required for a commit bit, shown specific interest and commitment to security support issues, and that have they confidence of the security team that will be able to work with appropriate discretion in protecting the confidential and often critical security information we receive. Don't take this as a personal slight -- none of this says you aren't able to work with others, that you don't have the technical skills, that you don't have the time, aren't willing to make the commitment, or that you lack adequate discretion. Rather, it's saying that the way we evaluate people for participation in the project is that they have a track record of these things in the community. In a largely online and volunteer community, that's the way it works. Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 19 11:36:38 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02948106566C for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:36:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oleg@opentransfer.com) Received: from smh01.opentransfer.com (smh01.opentransfer.com [71.18.216.112]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B643F8FC12 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:36:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oleg@opentransfer.com) Received: by smh01.opentransfer.com (Postfix, from userid 8) id B13CA1020E8D; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 07:33:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on smh01.opentransfer.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.6 required=5.0 tests=MIME_QP_LONG_LINE,RDNS_NONE autolearn=disabled version=3.2.4 Received: from webmail4.opentransfer.com (unknown [69.49.230.6]) by smh01.opentransfer.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87283102090E; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 07:33:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail4.opentransfer.com (webmail4.opentransfer.com [127.0.0.1]) by webmail4.opentransfer.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m8JBaaB2019534; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 06:36:36 -0500 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by webmail4.opentransfer.com (8.13.8/8.13.5/Submit) id m8JBaauk019533; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:36:36 +0300 X-Authentication-Warning: webmail4.opentransfer.com: nobody set sender to oleg@opentransfer.com using -f Received: from oleg.ecommerce-dev.com (oleg.ecommerce-dev.com [193.142.124.7]) by webmail.opentransfer.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:36:36 +0300 Message-ID: <20080919143636.p661cjfopw44osco@webmail.opentransfer.com> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:36:36 +0300 From: "Oleg V. Nauman" To: Robert Watson References: <20080918180543.pt7s2zmaio48ww8g@webmail.opentransfer.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.4) X-Originating-IP: 193.142.124.7 Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RELENG_7: something is very wrong with UDP? X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:36:38 -0000 Quoting Robert Watson : > On Thu, 18 Sep 2008, Oleg V. Nauman wrote: > >> It seems to be something is very wrong with UDP on latest RELENG_7 >> >> Well some symptoms I have seen today when I was trying to boot =20 >> newly compiled RELENG_7 on my laptop: >> >> a) rc scripts indefinitely waiting on logger to be completed during =20 >> the boot ( devd and ifconfig are good examples) > > If you hit "ctrl-t" while these are waiting, what is the output? load: 0.00 cmd: logger [nanslp] 0.00u 0.07s 0% 832k > >> b) Sporadic DNS request failures > > I don't know what your comfortable level with debugging tools is, but > if you're happy using tcpdump, etc, I think I'd recommend diagnosing > this directly that way. I'd probably do something like this: > > (1) Start by deleting all but one nameserver entry in /etc/resolv.conf. > Confirm that you can still reproduce the problem. Due to various reasons my laptop running local caching DNS server ( =20 named ) without any forwarders assigned. My /etc/resolv.conf contains nameserver 127.0.0.1 > > (2) Use dig(1) and tcpdump(1) to watch wire-level DNS behavior -- do you s= ee > queries go out? Do you see replies come back? Is dig "waking up" and > seeing the replies when they arrive, or is there a delay or hang in di= g? > If dig hangs, what does ctrl-t show the sleep state (wmesg) is? Will try do dig into when it occurs again > Could you > also use procstat -k on the dig process to generate a kernel stack tra= ce > for it? > >> c) traceroute prints 0.00 like response time for every host >> >> d) was unable to reboot my laptop performing shutdown -r ( due to =20 >> logger/syslog related issues I think) > > Could you try killing syslogd by hand and see if it dies? If not, can > you use procstat -kk to generate a stack trace for it? syslogd killing not helps.. Here is procstat -kk output for "shutdown -r now" process waiting on =20 something: PID TID COMM TDNAME KSTACK 1447 100098 shutdown - mi_switch+0x2c8 =20 sleepq_switch+0xd9 sleepq_catch_signals+0x239 =20 sleepq_timedwait_sig+0x17 _sleep+0x339 kern_nanosleep+0xc1 =20 nanosleep+0x6f syscall+0x2b3 Xint0x80_syscall+0x20 And procstat -kk output for logger process waiting: PID TID COMM TDNAME KSTACK 1421 100095 logger - mi_switch+0x2c8 =20 sleepq_switch+0xd9 sleepq_catch_signals+0x239 sleepq_wait_sig+0x14 =20 _sleep+0x35f pipe_read+0x389 dofileread+0x96 kern_readv+0x58 read+0x4f =20 syscall+0x2b3 Xint0x80_syscall+0x20 > >> e ) I was unable to start X session ( it seems to be freezes laptop =20 >> because I was unable to switch to another virtual console even) >> >> csup "backout" to date=3D2008.09.15.12.00.00 and recompiling the =20 >> kernel fixes this issue for me. > > This is approximately the date of my last UDP MFC. Could you try > backing out just src/sys/netinet6/udp6_usrreq.c revision 1.81.2.7 and > see if that helps? (specifically, restore the use of sosend_generic > instead of sosend_dgram) > > Could you confirm that either you're not using any kernel modules from > ports, or that if you are, you have recompiled them with your most > recent update? I'm not using any third party kernel modules at this moment. > > Could you try compiling your kernel with WITNESS to see if we get any > extended debugging information? Have added WITNESS ( and STACK required by procstat ) options but it =20 is not producing any output ( so no LORs or something like this ) > >> Is anybody experiencing the same issues with fresh RELENG_7? Unsure =20 >> it is my local issues though > > I'm not experiencing them, but these sorts of things can be quite > subtle and workload-dependent. Well experiencing this issue during the system boot even.. > > > Robert N M Watson > Computer Laboratory > University of Cambridge From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 19 11:48:49 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 392CC106564A for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:48:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1243A8FC1E for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:48:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [65.122.17.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B33CC46BC2; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 07:48:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:48:48 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: "Oleg V. Nauman" In-Reply-To: <20080919143636.p661cjfopw44osco@webmail.opentransfer.com> Message-ID: References: <20080918180543.pt7s2zmaio48ww8g@webmail.opentransfer.com> <20080919143636.p661cjfopw44osco@webmail.opentransfer.com> User-Agent: Alpine 1.10 (BSF 962 2008-03-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RELENG_7: something is very wrong with UDP? X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:48:49 -0000 On Fri, 19 Sep 2008, Oleg V. Nauman wrote: >> (1) Start by deleting all but one nameserver entry in /etc/resolv.conf. >> Confirm that you can still reproduce the problem. > > Due to various reasons my laptop running local caching DNS server ( named ) > without any forwarders assigned. My /etc/resolv.conf contains nameserver > 127.0.0.1 This is simplifying in some senses, but complicating in others. In particular, the question it raises is whether the problem is in the DNS resolver or the nameserver. Seeing a tcpdump of lo0 for DNS traffic would be quite interesting, since we could look at timestamps and try to place the blame a bit more precisely. >> Could you >> also use procstat -k on the dig process to generate a kernel stack trace >> for it? Let's add to this list: when the problem happens, could you also procstat -k the name server process(es)? > And procstat -kk output for logger process waiting: > > PID TID COMM TDNAME KSTACK > 1421 100095 logger - mi_switch+0x2c8 > sleepq_switch+0xd9 sleepq_catch_signals+0x239 sleepq_wait_sig+0x14 > _sleep+0x35f pipe_read+0x389 dofileread+0x96 kern_readv+0x58 read+0x4f > syscall+0x2b3 Xint0x80_syscall+0x20 Interesting -- logger is blocked on reading from a pipe, likely standard input. So it sounds like something else is failing to complete in a timely manner -- perhaps due to DNS. >> This is approximately the date of my last UDP MFC. Could you try backing >> out just src/sys/netinet6/udp6_usrreq.c revision 1.81.2.7 and see if that >> helps? (specifically, restore the use of sosend_generic instead of >> sosend_dgram) If you can show that it's definitely a problem with the change to sosend_dgram for UDPv6 socket send, then it might suggest it's the same problem that it is related to the UDPv46 code there. In which case I will propose we back out that portion of the change in the 7-stable branch until it's known to be resolved -- I don't want other people tripping over this. >> Could you try compiling your kernel with WITNESS to see if we get any >> extended debugging information? > > Have added WITNESS ( and STACK required by procstat ) options but it is not > producing any output ( so no LORs or something like this ) OK. Could you try adding INVARIANT_SUPPORT and INVARIANTS if they aren't there? Be aware: this may convert the wedging you are experiencing into a kernel panic. >>> Is anybody experiencing the same issues with fresh RELENG_7? Unsure it is >>> my local issues though >> >> I'm not experiencing them, but these sorts of things can be quite subtle >> and workload-dependent. > > Well experiencing this issue during the system boot even.. OK. So there must be something a bit different about your setup -- perhaps there's something specific about the way things are interacting over the loopback address for the name server. Is this the stock system BIND9 or something else? Are you able to temporarily switch to an external name server and see if that changes things? Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 19 12:36:02 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 352591065682 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:36:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from QMTA06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.56]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BB4F8FC17 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:36:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from OMTA01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.11]) by QMTA06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id GajA1a0020EPchoA6cc1DA; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:36:01 +0000 Received: from koitsu.dyndns.org ([67.180.253.227]) by OMTA01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id Gcbz1a00A4v8bD78McbzZZ; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:36:00 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=QycZ5dHgAAAA:8 a=IpJzsrvF0OYJwm-xvNgA:9 a=wROprSuifKPDRVhnchgA:7 a=0BYlPyXxTZqgEsZNUm33iC8NUXEA:4 a=EoioJ0NPDVgA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 Received: by icarus.home.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5100517B81A; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 05:35:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 05:35:59 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, talon@lpthe.jussieu.fr, jhb@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <20080919123559.GA45054@icarus.home.lan> References: <20080918183250.GA48347@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <200809190955.m8J9t5mE092126@lurza.secnetix.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200809190955.m8J9t5mE092126@lurza.secnetix.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: Subject: Re: floppy disk controller broken X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:36:02 -0000 On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 11:55:05AM +0200, Oliver Fromme wrote: > Michel Talon wrote: > > Oliver Fromme wrote: > > > Michel Talon wrote: > > > > Moreover, trying to write to the floppy: > > > > niobe# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/fd0 conv=noerror > > > > dd: /dev/fd0: Input/output error > > > > 5+0 records in > > > > 4+0 records out > > > > 2048 bytes transferred in 4.054404 secs (505 bytes/sec) > > > > > > > > I don't expect such result. Traditionnally writing works, while reading > > > > may fail. > > > > > > Maybe I misunderstand what you're saying, but ... > > > When I try to write to a floppy that has *not* been > > > successfully formatted, I very much expect to get > > > Input/output error. Anything else would be a bug. > > > > The floppy has certainly be formatted, in the past. Perhaps i > > remember badly, i have not used floppies since years, but > > in this case the behavior with Windows, Linux and ancient FreeBSD > > was that you could write to the floppy, but could encounter errors > > while reading. > > Since you mentioned "ancient" FreeBSD, I assume that was > using buffered block devices, when FreeBSD still supported > them? That sounds right -- again, if my memory hasn't failed me... > Nowadays /dev/fd0 is a character device which is > unbuffered, i.e. your dd(1) command goes straight to the > disk, and if the drive reports an error (typically sync > mark not found if the floppy is unformatted), it goes back > up to dd(1) immediately and you get Input/output error. Ah ha! Evolution has occurred. Thanks for educating me. :-) -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 19 14:20:31 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8514106570F; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:20:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (unknown [IPv6:2a01:170:102f::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63D818FC0C; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:20:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id m8JEKTHI002636; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 16:20:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id m8JEKTEf002635; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 16:20:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from olli) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 16:20:29 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <200809191420.m8JEKTEf002635@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, jhb@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <200809171144.48424.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-stable User-Agent: tin/1.8.3-20070201 ("Scotasay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/6.4-PRERELEASE-20080904 (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 19 Sep 2008 16:20:30 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Subject: Re: ACPI "blacklist" question X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:20:32 -0000 John Baldwin wrote: > On Wednesday 17 September 2008 07:47:18 am Oliver Fromme wrote: > > I have recently updated a machine to 7-stable. > > ACPI doesn't seem to work correctly on this machine. > > With earlier versions of FreeBSD (including the latest > > RELENG_6), I got this line in dmesg: > > > > ACPI disabled by blacklist. Contact your BIOS vendor. > > > > And everything was fine. The box runs perfectly well > > with ACPI disabled. (I can't get a BIOS update because > > the mainboard is too old.) > > > > When I updated to RELENG_7 a few days ago, the above line > > did _not_ appear anymore, and the machine didn't proceed > > [...] > > This is a regression. Try this fix: > > Index: acpi_quirk.c > =================================================================== > --- acpi_quirk.c (revision 183112) > +++ acpi_quirk.c (working copy) > @@ -149,9 +149,9 @@ > if (ACPI_FAILURE(AcpiGetTableHeader(ACPI_SIG_FADT, 0, &fadt))) > bzero(&fadt, sizeof(fadt)); > if (ACPI_FAILURE(AcpiGetTableHeader(ACPI_SIG_DSDT, 0, &dsdt))) > - bzero(&fadt, sizeof(dsdt)); > + bzero(&dsdt, sizeof(dsdt)); > if (ACPI_FAILURE(AcpiGetTableHeader(ACPI_SIG_XSDT, 0, &xsdt))) > - bzero(&fadt, sizeof(xsdt)); > + bzero(&xsdt, sizeof(xsdt)); > > /* Then, override the quirks with any matched from table signatures. */ > for (entry = acpi_quirks_table; entry->match; entry++) { The patch fixes the problem. The blacklist message is now back again, and the machine boots without hints right out of the box. Thanks! Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd 'Instead of asking why a piece of software is using "1970s technology," start asking why software is ignoring 30 years of accumulated wisdom.' From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 19 14:31:27 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E30A1065673 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:31:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jasone@FreeBSD.org) Received: from canonware.com (canonware.com [64.183.146.166]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EABB98FC1A for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:31:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jasone@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [192.168.168.201] (unknown [192.168.168.201]) by canonware.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 458121298EB; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 07:15:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <48D3B2F9.7020900@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 07:11:05 -0700 From: Jason Evans User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (X11/20080724) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stephen Montgomery-Smith References: <48D3AE8D.50304@math.missouri.edu> In-Reply-To: <48D3AE8D.50304@math.missouri.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Stable Subject: Re: Calling malloc from a signal handler X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:31:27 -0000 Stephen Montgomery-Smith wrote: > I notice that if you use "malloc" from within a signal handler on > FreeBSD-6.x, that you can potentially trigger a "recursive call" error. > > But this seems to have changed in FreeBSD-7.x. The malloc implementation is completely new in FreeBSD 7, so not all of the internal error checking code is the same. > Is it now permissible to call "malloc" from within a signal handler in > FreeBSD-7.x? Calling malloc from within a signal handler can cause application deadlock, so although you won't see an error message printed, you are unlikely to be happy with the results. Jason From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 19 14:32:01 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC32A106566B for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:32:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stephen@math.missouri.edu) Received: from math.missouri.edu (math.missouri.edu [128.206.184.200]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2D3B8FC0A for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:32:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stephen@math.missouri.edu) Received: from [128.206.184.213] (cauchy.math.missouri.edu [128.206.184.213]) by math.missouri.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id m8JDqtOV008502; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 08:52:55 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from stephen@math.missouri.edu) Message-ID: <48D3AE8D.50304@math.missouri.edu> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 08:52:13 -0500 From: Stephen Montgomery-Smith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.1.16) Gecko/20080909 SeaMonkey/1.1.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Stable , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/8287/Fri Sep 19 03:13:26 2008 on math.missouri.edu X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: Calling malloc from a signal handler X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:32:02 -0000 I notice that if you use "malloc" from within a signal handler on FreeBSD-6.x, that you can potentially trigger a "recursive call" error. But this seems to have changed in FreeBSD-7.x. Is it now permissible to call "malloc" from within a signal handler in FreeBSD-7.x? If so, should the man page of "sigaction(2)" be upgraded to say this? Thanks, Stephen From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 19 15:12:17 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from [127.0.0.1] (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72B341065677; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 15:12:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jkim@FreeBSD.org) From: Jung-uk Kim To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:12:01 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <200809171147.m8HBlI7F082370@lurza.secnetix.de> <200809171144.48424.jhb@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <200809171144.48424.jhb@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200809191112.06765.jkim@FreeBSD.org> Cc: Oliver Fromme , John Baldwin Subject: Re: ACPI "blacklist" question X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 15:12:17 -0000 On Wednesday 17 September 2008 11:44 am, John Baldwin wrote: > On Wednesday 17 September 2008 07:47:18 am Oliver Fromme wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I have recently updated a machine to 7-stable. > > ACPI doesn't seem to work correctly on this machine. > > With earlier versions of FreeBSD (including the latest > > RELENG_6), I got this line in dmesg: > > > > ACPI disabled by blacklist. Contact your BIOS vendor. > > > > And everything was fine. The box runs perfectly well > > with ACPI disabled. (I can't get a BIOS update because > > the mainboard is too old.) > > > > When I updated to RELENG_7 a few days ago, the above line > > did _not_ appear anymore, and the machine didn't proceed > > to boot, so I had to travel to the console. :-( > > After disabling ACPI manually via boot.conf hint, it is > > up and running fine again. > > > > Now i'm wondering: Has the ACPI blacklist been removed > > intentionally, or is this a regression? Certainly I did > > not find any mentioning of it in UPDATING or anywhere > > else. > > This is a regression. Try this fix: > > Index: acpi_quirk.c > =================================================================== > --- acpi_quirk.c (revision 183112) > +++ acpi_quirk.c (working copy) > @@ -149,9 +149,9 @@ > if (ACPI_FAILURE(AcpiGetTableHeader(ACPI_SIG_FADT, 0, &fadt))) > bzero(&fadt, sizeof(fadt)); > if (ACPI_FAILURE(AcpiGetTableHeader(ACPI_SIG_DSDT, 0, &dsdt))) > - bzero(&fadt, sizeof(dsdt)); > + bzero(&dsdt, sizeof(dsdt)); > if (ACPI_FAILURE(AcpiGetTableHeader(ACPI_SIG_XSDT, 0, &xsdt))) > - bzero(&fadt, sizeof(xsdt)); > + bzero(&xsdt, sizeof(xsdt)); > > /* Then, override the quirks with any matched from table > signatures. */ for (entry = acpi_quirks_table; entry->match; > entry++) { Doh, that's my copy-and-pasto. Thanks for catching it! Jung-uk Kim From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 19 15:30:28 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from [127.0.0.1] (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 780DC106568B; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 15:30:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jkim@FreeBSD.org) From: Jung-uk Kim To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:30:18 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <200809191420.m8JEKTEf002635@lurza.secnetix.de> In-Reply-To: <200809191420.m8JEKTEf002635@lurza.secnetix.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200809191130.21002.jkim@FreeBSD.org> Cc: Oliver Fromme , jhb@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ACPI "blacklist" question X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 15:30:28 -0000 On Friday 19 September 2008 10:20 am, Oliver Fromme wrote: > John Baldwin wrote: > > On Wednesday 17 September 2008 07:47:18 am Oliver Fromme wrote: > > > I have recently updated a machine to 7-stable. > > > ACPI doesn't seem to work correctly on this machine. > > > With earlier versions of FreeBSD (including the latest > > > RELENG_6), I got this line in dmesg: > > > > > > ACPI disabled by blacklist. Contact your BIOS vendor. > > > > > > And everything was fine. The box runs perfectly well > > > with ACPI disabled. (I can't get a BIOS update because > > > the mainboard is too old.) > > > > > > When I updated to RELENG_7 a few days ago, the above line > > > did _not_ appear anymore, and the machine didn't proceed > > > [...] > > > > This is a regression. Try this fix: > > > > Index: acpi_quirk.c > > ================================================================ > >=== --- acpi_quirk.c (revision 183112) > > +++ acpi_quirk.c (working copy) > > @@ -149,9 +149,9 @@ > > if (ACPI_FAILURE(AcpiGetTableHeader(ACPI_SIG_FADT, 0, > > &fadt))) bzero(&fadt, sizeof(fadt)); > > if (ACPI_FAILURE(AcpiGetTableHeader(ACPI_SIG_DSDT, 0, > > &dsdt))) - bzero(&fadt, sizeof(dsdt)); > > + bzero(&dsdt, sizeof(dsdt)); > > if (ACPI_FAILURE(AcpiGetTableHeader(ACPI_SIG_XSDT, 0, > > &xsdt))) - bzero(&fadt, sizeof(xsdt)); > > + bzero(&xsdt, sizeof(xsdt)); > > > > /* Then, override the quirks with any matched from table > > signatures. */ for (entry = acpi_quirks_table; entry->match; > > entry++) { > > The patch fixes the problem. The blacklist message is > now back again, and the machine boots without hints > right out of the box. Thanks! Committed. I will MFC it if re@ says okay. Thanks! Jung-uk Kim From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 19 16:40:30 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4EEB106564A; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 16:40:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from deischen@freebsd.org) Received: from mail.netplex.net (mail.netplex.net [204.213.176.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 840918FC08; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 16:40:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from deischen@freebsd.org) Received: from sea.ntplx.net (sea.ntplx.net [204.213.176.11]) by mail.netplex.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/NETPLEX) with ESMTP id m8JGeStO022809; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:40:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS and Clam AntiVirus (mail.netplex.net) X-Greylist: Message whitelisted by DRAC access database, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (mail.netplex.net [204.213.176.10]); Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:40:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:40:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Eischen X-X-Sender: eischen@sea.ntplx.net To: Stephen Montgomery-Smith In-Reply-To: <48D3AE8D.50304@math.missouri.edu> Message-ID: References: <48D3AE8D.50304@math.missouri.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Stable Subject: Re: Calling malloc from a signal handler X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Daniel Eischen List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 16:40:30 -0000 On Fri, 19 Sep 2008, Stephen Montgomery-Smith wrote: > I notice that if you use "malloc" from within a signal handler on > FreeBSD-6.x, that you can potentially trigger a "recursive call" error. > > But this seems to have changed in FreeBSD-7.x. > > Is it now permissible to call "malloc" from within a signal handler in > FreeBSD-7.x? > > If so, should the man page of "sigaction(2)" be upgraded to say this? You shouldn't call malloc() or any other function that isn't async-signal-safe from a signal handler. I don't think we should say if it works or not, since it is not portable and could change at any given time in future versions of FreeBSD. -- DE From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 19 20:35:27 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 566E31065670 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 20:35:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from server.baldwin.cx (bigknife-pt.tunnel.tserv9.chi1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f10:75::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCCF98FC17 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 20:35:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from localhost.corp.yahoo.com (john@localhost [IPv6:::1]) (authenticated bits=0) by server.baldwin.cx (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8JKZGvT031478; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 16:35:17 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 16:28:32 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <200809171137.32759.jhb@freebsd.org> <200809180139.m8I1dJEt067791@pf2.ed.niigata-u.ac.jp> In-Reply-To: <200809180139.m8I1dJEt067791@pf2.ed.niigata-u.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200809191628.33000.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (server.baldwin.cx [IPv6:::1]); Fri, 19 Sep 2008 16:35:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.1/8287/Fri Sep 19 04:13:26 2008 on server.baldwin.cx X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=4.2 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,NO_RELAYS autolearn=ham version=3.1.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on server.baldwin.cx Cc: KAHO Toshikazu Subject: Re: alpm(4) I/O range is claimed by ACPI X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 20:35:27 -0000 On Wednesday 17 September 2008 09:39:19 pm KAHO Toshikazu wrote: > Hello, > > > Well, bus_alloc_resource() will allocate resources for the BAR and update the > > BAR for you, the question is if you need to hardcode the range to > > bus_alloc_resource() or not. > > It is necessary for a pci device to set the BAR, if the device > would use memory or I/O space, isn't it? I don't know why the > BAR is not settable, but I think it is disabled by some reasons > and the BAR may be settable if the device could be enabled. The BIOS simply may have not set a range for the BAR and left it at 0. In that case, the BAR can probably be enabled by just programming it to a valid range. You can try doing that via rid = PCIR_BAR(x); /* Or SYS_RES_IOPORT */ res = bus_alloc_resource_any(dev, SYS_RES_MEMORY, &rid); This will allocate fresh resources for the BAR if possible. However, if the BAR is "special" and only works with a certain hard-coded address, then you can try specifying the start/end/count using bus_alloc_resource() rather than bus_alloc_resource_any(). -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 19 20:43:05 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72A5B106564A for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 20:43:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steve@ibctech.ca) Received: from ibctech.ca (v6.ibctech.ca [IPv6:2607:f118::b6]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 139778FC1C for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 20:43:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steve@ibctech.ca) Received: (qmail 3081 invoked by uid 89); 19 Sep 2008 20:42:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?IPv6:2607:f118::5?) (steve@ibctech.ca@2607:f118::5) by 2607:f118::b6 with ESMTPA; 19 Sep 2008 20:42:57 -0000 Message-ID: <48D40EE2.5090900@ibctech.ca> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 16:43:14 -0400 From: Steve Bertrand User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: GELI encrypted ZFS zpool X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 20:43:05 -0000 Hi everyone, I have an older storage box that I've upgraded to -stable. It currently uses 7 SCSI disks mashed together with gstripe. I've recently replaced this box with a new one running a ZFS setup. I'm now wanting to turn the old one into a storage device running ZFS, but I want the entire pool encrypted with GELI. I know I can do this, but my requirements are as such: - use a key on external media to access the GELI encrypted disks - not have to type in the passphrase for each physical disk ...is this possible? Here is a reference to what I am after: (Google Groups): http://tinyurl.com/4xrysl Thanks for any consideration, Steve From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 00:46:37 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D5B41065678; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 00:46:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from mail.netconsonance.com (mail.netconsonance.com [198.207.204.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED7DF8FC08; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 00:46:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from [10.67.240.140] (public-wireless.sc.svcolo.com [64.13.143.30]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netconsonance.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m8K0jvKo050357; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:45:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netconsonance.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.017 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.017 tagged_above=-999 required=3.5 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1.44, AWL=0.423] Message-Id: <34C3D54B-C88C-4C36-B1FE-C07FC27F8CB5@netconsonance.com> From: Jo Rhett To: Robert Watson In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v928.1) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:45:52 -0700 References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <593618A3-56DA-4891-A4A0-690E9A9C5B32@netconsonance.com> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <15F15FD1-3C53-4018-8792-BC63289DC4C2@netconsonance.com> <448wtpcikb.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.928.1) Cc: freebsd-stable , Lowell Gilbert Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 00:46:37 -0000 First, I'd like to thank you for taking the time to respond to this seriously. I hope you'll read my reply in the very serious, and not accusative tone it is meant. (I am a little tired and fried at the moment, I may not use the best phrasing. I hope I do.) On Sep 19, 2008, at 4:20 AM, Robert Watson wrote: > This is the same answer I gave Lowell, but let me expand on it > slightly. Our community grants rights (read also: responsibilities) > on the basis of credibility in the community. Here's a possible plan: ... > work for supported branches. This in turn may convince them that > they should invest their time in mentoring you for a FreeBSD commit > bit, and potentially join the security or release engineering teams > once you've established that you are a member of the developer team > who works well with others, does good technical work, and who is in > it for the long haul. Look, I understand what you're saying here. And I don't discredit or disagree that it shouldn't be handled this way. But what you have addressed is a stepwise integration policy of a developer, and does not address how to get a business to commit those resources. Why? Because you are asking for the business to commit the resources without a goal. No, I'm not saying that FreeBSD has to guarantee anything. We both know that guarantees on open source projects aren't worth much. What I'm saying is that your scoped outline has no goal. Nothing to even reach for. Except maybe perhaps a commit bit for me. If I had wanted a commit bit, I'm sure I would have one by now. I'm not particularly worried about that. I don't even really care to have one (though I would if that was necessary). But that's the highest goal of your outlined scope. A commit bit. What's missing? A. A goal B. An assessment of the requirements to reach that goal ...etc To get a business to commit resources to a project there must be an actual goal. And to reach that actual goal there must be both (a) a plan to get there, (b) a reasoned assessment of the effort involved, etc etc and (z) the effort taking place to reach that goal. Obviously (z) matters and perhaps you can say it matters most. But no sane business tries to do (z) without a clear idea of what (a)(b)(...) is. If you've seen the appropriate Southpark episode: "Step 3: Profit!" "Dude, what's step 2?" > (1) It doesn't give the immediate gratification of seeing the > official support > status extended for releases. However, as you say, you're > already doing > the work. I'm honestly confused by this statement, because I can't imagine anything about the proposed work being "immediate" no matter how it was approached. > and that have they confidence of the security team that will be able > to work with appropriate discretion in protecting the confidential > and often critical security information we receive. Unless the security problem is reported internally within FreeBSD alone (very few problems are) I usually have the security details long before you release patches. I don't see this as much of a hindrance if any. > Don't take this as a personal slight -- none of this says you aren't > able to work with others, that you don't have the technical skills, > that you don't have the time, aren't willing to make the commitment, > or that you lack adequate discretion. Rather, it's saying that the > way we evaluate people for participation in the project is that they > have a track record of these things in the community. In a largely > online and volunteer community, that's the way it works. There's *nothing* wrong with what you have said. What you have said makes perfect sense from an integration perspective. But I don't think it addresses the issues at hand -- businesses need to have explicit goals and at least a haphazard guess at the requirements to reach those goals before they'll commit resources. I don't see these problems as being in conflict. In fact, I would personally suggest that most of the resources you need to improve your releases don't need commit bits. I personally have no objection at all to running all patches through another set (or two, or three) of eyeballs. It's a damn good practice ;-) It's unlikely to slow me down one bit. ^^^ you may know more about the resource limitations and why commit bits are necessary to relieve your resource strain. In that situation, please educate me. Or everyone. In particular, I'll be happy to buy you coffee/beer/poison of choice at your leisure if that would make this easier. -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 02:07:05 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B0401065670 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 02:07:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aragon@phat.za.net) Received: from mail.geek.sh (decoder.geek.sh [196.36.198.81]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14F298FC08 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 02:07:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aragon@phat.za.net) Received: by mail.geek.sh (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9C66F24D22; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 04:07:03 +0200 (SAST) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 04:07:03 +0200 From: Aragon Gouveia To: Jo Rhett Message-ID: <20080920020703.GA82392@phat.za.net> References: <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <15F15FD1-3C53-4018-8792-BC63289DC4C2@netconsonance.com> <448wtpcikb.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> <34C3D54B-C88C-4C36-B1FE-C07FC27F8CB5@netconsonance.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <34C3D54B-C88C-4C36-B1FE-C07FC27F8CB5@netconsonance.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.10-RELEASE-p2 i386 Cc: freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 02:07:05 -0000 >From what I've gathered so far... | By Jo Rhett | [ 2008-09-20 02:46 +0200 ] > To get a business to commit resources to a project there must be an > actual goal. [1] The FreeBSD project would have to commit resources too. Its community that provides those resources need to see tangible work that is useful to the project before committing any resources to it. > And to reach that actual goal there must be both (a) a > plan to get there, (b) a reasoned assessment of the effort involved, > etc etc and (z) the effort taking place to reach that goal. For (a), (b), and (z), this is where you come in. Define the goal. Make a plan to get there. Assess the effort involved. Convince your employer that (a), (b) and (z) is worth it to him/her and that the result of (z) will convince the FreeBSD project to commit the resources needed to integrate it. If they're happy, start working on (z) and bring it to the FreeBSD project when you think it's ready. If the FreeBSD project has to be involved in (a), (b), or (z), it will have to commit its own resources to the effort. See [1]. Just my humble observation as a fellow FreeBSD user... Regards, Aragon From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 02:39:20 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A236C1065675 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 02:39:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from mail.netconsonance.com (mail.netconsonance.com [198.207.204.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84ED88FC26 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 02:39:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from [172.16.12.8] (covad-jrhett.meer.net [209.157.140.144]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netconsonance.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m8K2cWcK052565; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 19:38:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netconsonance.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.413 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.413 tagged_above=-999 required=3.5 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1.44, AWL=-0.973] Message-Id: <851F09A2-788D-4343-9E00-A0AB5C3AC063@netconsonance.com> From: Jo Rhett To: Aragon Gouveia In-Reply-To: <20080920020703.GA82392@phat.za.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v928.1) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 19:38:32 -0700 References: <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <15F15FD1-3C53-4018-8792-BC63289DC4C2@netconsonance.com> <448wtpcikb.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> <34C3D54B-C88C-4C36-B1FE-C07FC27F8CB5@netconsonance.com> <20080920020703.GA82392@phat.za.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.928.1) Cc: freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 02:39:20 -0000 On Sep 19, 2008, at 7:07 PM, Aragon Gouveia wrote: >> To get a business to commit resources to a project there must be an >> actual goal. > > [1] The FreeBSD project would have to commit resources too. Its > community Of course. This is what the requirements analysis is ;-) > For (a), (b), and (z), this is where you come in. Define the goal. > Make a > plan to get there. Assess the effort involved. Convince your > employer that > (a), (b) and (z) is worth it to him/her and that the result of (z) > will > convince the FreeBSD project to commit the resources needed to > integrate it. > If they're happy, start working on (z) and bring it to the FreeBSD > project > when you think it's ready. Of course. If this was something that could be done without working with the freebsd developers, do you think I would put up with this kind of abuse? I'd much rather have something I could just go and do ;-) The issue is that nobody is willing to answer the question: "what resources are too limited to provide longer support? How can we help?" This the elephant that everyone ignores. To develop a plan, you need to know the limitations. Once those are spelled out, you sit down and try to determine what resources are necessary to achieve a certain goal. Then you find those resources, etc etc... Without input from the current release team extending the support schedule is not possible. -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 03:01:26 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F15E1065672 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 03:01:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from minimarmot@gmail.com) Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com (rv-out-0506.google.com [209.85.198.234]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A4818FC1D for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 03:01:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from minimarmot@gmail.com) Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id b25so633925rvf.43 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 20:01:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=qEUGbK4x71la+mitWrA3se7JZZCpV3R26OOsLmIb3w8=; b=BPNms8jxrzH7lT1PaFcnkXGlMLcr+UEyHq1VfjqaIJVBw5H2wf/lUwF9q1g8ANhsyi q+U8H8o+bTLt3nFK/DcPKapj+AVn2nccifK5IqSwtQZEmghfAqAyZVi2QDYw9E/yK6sK So3y3wLSeP1KRqTbzdnJD3Ob49UeDo2+AihJ4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=WexIRXPuHBojYRQ99E90HFo+2CaoIY7mxlW7wc7pxiidG6rllpx5HBIRrhhnMeLNo+ JQiXtwD+hsNxgDfwvKxEXnNWg+QbwXBAytNNU1S9DCtoaBmtiH9FczwLc0sHfXa6XXGn 67VJjP3ZueWAdQQaBzKRM2JQANswrEXhr6uSY= Received: by 10.141.195.5 with SMTP id x5mr454396rvp.263.1221879680055; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 20:01:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.113.9 with HTTP; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 20:01:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <47d0403c0809192001r62653ff4w93301f8a7ab4cf23@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:01:19 -0400 From: "Ben Kaduk" To: "Jo Rhett" In-Reply-To: <851F09A2-788D-4343-9E00-A0AB5C3AC063@netconsonance.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <15F15FD1-3C53-4018-8792-BC63289DC4C2@netconsonance.com> <448wtpcikb.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> <34C3D54B-C88C-4C36-B1FE-C07FC27F8CB5@netconsonance.com> <20080920020703.GA82392@phat.za.net> <851F09A2-788D-4343-9E00-A0AB5C3AC063@netconsonance.com> Cc: freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 03:01:26 -0000 On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 10:38 PM, Jo Rhett wrote: > > On Sep 19, 2008, at 7:07 PM, Aragon Gouveia wrote: >>> >>> To get a business to commit resources to a project there must be an >>> actual goal. >> >> [1] The FreeBSD project would have to commit resources too. Its community > > Of course. This is what the requirements analysis is ;-) > >> For (a), (b), and (z), this is where you come in. Define the goal. Make >> a >> plan to get there. Assess the effort involved. Convince your employer >> that >> (a), (b) and (z) is worth it to him/her and that the result of (z) will >> convince the FreeBSD project to commit the resources needed to integrate >> it. >> If they're happy, start working on (z) and bring it to the FreeBSD project >> when you think it's ready. > > > Of course. If this was something that could be done without working with > the freebsd developers, do you think I would put up with this kind of abuse? > I'd much rather have something I could just go and do ;-) > > The issue is that nobody is willing to answer the question: "what resources > are too limited to provide longer support? How can we help?" > Jo, I think this is the clearest way you have stated your point yet, and it is quite definitely the crux of the issue: What resources does re@ not have, that releases are supported for these short times? I have never run a release, so I can't be much more specific that ``man-hours'' -- someone else should chime in and say what those hours would be spent on, if they were there. I think this is a great opportunity for the project, and a few pointers for how one could maintain an independent support of older releases would give the rest of us a great resource. -Ben Kaduk From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 04:18:36 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6CD21065672 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 04:18:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from davidn04@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gx0-f17.google.com (mail-gx0-f17.google.com [209.85.217.17]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 690FB8FC08 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 04:18:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from davidn04@gmail.com) Received: by gxk10 with SMTP id 10so1374769gxk.19 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 21:18:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=4OjZWEG2jwVjHpzNfOBl5dy/F55udD7WjweqIDSYmi4=; b=m8WAMAnSYBmCMbGgQNMpdp440BpoQeVMsbmfT4zbHVipB+0GDqObnqiVuXL67RpHRJ 7Yq1JVBjMJ9SXEn+Ad7PcACWfH0mKZXxojCyBm2cpLXlzMphjUicok9qCZwPs1ydswqe xVfWw+ucpm5LNO9x2JyEqv4OE5H3OlpPDfJVY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=LczAwv/zCvhh2VOIGlpKi1gvBco9xJpBq7KdYBI+wChAEB/gx4E4JCOBblxFCmeEGi aT0A03VJjmajEfH2Ca0Kf2cmSDTvGXZWoSD5BGbB4pvcVfMQz1yvaqT2/J3v/InQHW0i K15tfgtFEw33ejAKUEdrqeUNLtfa+k0uZFePE= Received: by 10.150.212.14 with SMTP id k14mr4142590ybg.89.1221883067704; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 20:57:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.101.11 with HTTP; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 20:57:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4d7dd86f0809192057s33dfd92fv598488a4c05ada14@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:57:47 +1000 From: "David N" To: "Jo Rhett" In-Reply-To: <851F09A2-788D-4343-9E00-A0AB5C3AC063@netconsonance.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <15F15FD1-3C53-4018-8792-BC63289DC4C2@netconsonance.com> <448wtpcikb.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> <34C3D54B-C88C-4C36-B1FE-C07FC27F8CB5@netconsonance.com> <20080920020703.GA82392@phat.za.net> <851F09A2-788D-4343-9E00-A0AB5C3AC063@netconsonance.com> Cc: freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 04:18:37 -0000 2008/9/20 Jo Rhett : > > On Sep 19, 2008, at 7:07 PM, Aragon Gouveia wrote: >>> >>> To get a business to commit resources to a project there must be an >>> actual goal. >> >> [1] The FreeBSD project would have to commit resources too. Its community > > Of course. This is what the requirements analysis is ;-) > >> For (a), (b), and (z), this is where you come in. Define the goal. Make >> a >> plan to get there. Assess the effort involved. Convince your employer >> that >> (a), (b) and (z) is worth it to him/her and that the result of (z) will >> convince the FreeBSD project to commit the resources needed to integrate >> it. >> If they're happy, start working on (z) and bring it to the FreeBSD project >> when you think it's ready. > > > Of course. If this was something that could be done without working with > the freebsd developers, do you think I would put up with this kind of abuse? > I'd much rather have something I could just go and do ;-) > > The issue is that nobody is willing to answer the question: "what resources > are too limited to provide longer support? How can we help?" > > This the elephant that everyone ignores. To develop a plan, you need to > know the limitations. Once those are spelled out, you sit down and try to > determine what resources are necessary to achieve a certain goal. Then you > find those resources, etc etc... > > Without input from the current release team extending the support schedule > is not possible. > > -- > Jo Rhett > Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and > other randomness > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > I have been following this thread for a while now and I've only recently used FreeBSD for the past 1-2 years, so my experience is not so great. But from what I've gathered from reading the mailing lists during the EOL of 4.11, the limited resources are >From Kernel Space - Security patches - Drivers (sometimes back porting a 7.x driver to 6.x isn't possible because if missing API or limited API calls that are only available to newer kernels) Base/Core Software - Security Patches Ports (I think the biggest issue in maintaining support) - Ports maintainers have to keep patches for every RELENG thats available. Previously they had to maintain compatibility with 3-4 branches (i can't remember), 4.x, 5.x, 6.x, 7.x. and there is alot (10,000+) ports. - At the moment there is two (i think) 6.x and 7.x, and possible mid next year (2009) there will be 3 (8.x). - Some ports didn't work with 4.x due to missing API calls as well and had to be marked broken if they tried to compile it on a 4.x. This will eventually happen when FreeBSD reaches 8 or 9 and 6 will not have the API calls required. >From what I gather, those are the main points in maintaining extended support. How long are you expecting support for a RELENG to last, 1, 2, 3 years? 5 years? (comparison, Ubuntu LTS is 3 years, security updates) Are you after support for a RELENG_X or RELENG_X_Y? What are you expecting from the support? Security only? Drivers? Ports? Please don't get me wrong, it is great that you and your company is willing to put the resources in, but its a huge undertaking maintaining a release. Maybe those questions might clarify to some FreeBSD Developers what you're asking from them. NB: I'm not a FreeBSD developer, but a very happy user that maintains FreeBSD servers for business clients. Regards David N From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 04:30:44 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5161F106566B for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 04:30:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from mail.netconsonance.com (mail.netconsonance.com [198.207.204.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33ABE8FC16 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 04:30:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from [172.16.12.8] (covad-jrhett.meer.net [209.157.140.144]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netconsonance.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m8K4UB4o054570; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 21:30:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netconsonance.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.41 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.41 tagged_above=-999 required=3.5 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1.44, AWL=-0.970] Message-Id: <4B2A556D-B13D-4B71-819A-F9B23C5685AF@netconsonance.com> From: Jo Rhett To: David N In-Reply-To: <4d7dd86f0809192057s33dfd92fv598488a4c05ada14@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v928.1) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 21:30:11 -0700 References: <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <15F15FD1-3C53-4018-8792-BC63289DC4C2@netconsonance.com> <448wtpcikb.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> <34C3D54B-C88C-4C36-B1FE-C07FC27F8CB5@netconsonance.com> <20080920020703.GA82392@phat.za.net> <851F09A2-788D-4343-9E00-A0AB5C3AC063@netconsonance.com> <4d7dd86f0809192057s33dfd92fv598488a4c05ada14@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.928.1) Cc: freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 04:30:44 -0000 On Sep 19, 2008, at 8:57 PM, David N wrote: > How long are you expecting support for a RELENG to last, 1, 2, 3 > years? 5 years? (comparison, Ubuntu LTS is 3 years, security updates) 2 years for each supported branch would be excellent, although I'm open to alternatives. Right now 6.4 will EoL before 6.3 will :-( > Are you after support for a RELENG_X or RELENG_X_Y? > What are you expecting from the support? Security only? Drivers? > Ports? The answer of similar people in this situation might vary. For our needs, security only is fine. Obviously I'd be willing to assist with an effort that tried to provide more support. -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 04:41:49 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C1B51065671 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 04:41:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gpalmer@freebsd.org) Received: from noop.in-addr.com (mail.in-addr.com [IPv6:2001:470:8:162::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E17C8FC0A for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 04:41:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gpalmer@freebsd.org) Received: from gjp by noop.in-addr.com with local (Exim 4.54 (FreeBSD)) id 1KguI0-0000Be-EN; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 00:41:48 -0400 Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 00:41:48 -0400 From: Gary Palmer To: Jo Rhett Message-ID: <20080920044148.GA60230@in-addr.com> References: <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <15F15FD1-3C53-4018-8792-BC63289DC4C2@netconsonance.com> <448wtpcikb.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> <34C3D54B-C88C-4C36-B1FE-C07FC27F8CB5@netconsonance.com> <20080920020703.GA82392@phat.za.net> <851F09A2-788D-4343-9E00-A0AB5C3AC063@netconsonance.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <851F09A2-788D-4343-9E00-A0AB5C3AC063@netconsonance.com> Cc: freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 04:41:49 -0000 On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 07:38:32PM -0700, Jo Rhett wrote: > Without input from the current release team extending the support > schedule is not possible. Inquiry - is release team the constraint? Or to put it another way, what to you is "support" in terms of FreeBSD releases? As far as I am aware, if you stick on a RELENG_X_Y_Z_RELEASE tag then the most you get is security fixes. No new features, no new drivers, no bugfixes. So if I am interpreting things correctly, you are asking for security fixes to be ported to RELEASE tagged branches for longer? So is release team the contrained resource in your problem? I am not denying that *any* part of the FreeBSD team is not resource constrained, but I'm wondering if you're examining the correct area. Note: I am not up on the internals of modern FreeBSD release engineering and maintenance nor the relationship between "staff" functions, so I may be barking up the wrong telephone pole. Regards, Gary From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 04:42:11 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5AD81065675 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 04:42:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@immure.com) Received: from maul.immure.com (adsl-66-136-206-1.dsl.austtx.swbell.net [66.136.206.1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A8A98FC17 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 04:42:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@immure.com) Received: from rancor.immure.com (rancor.immure.com [10.1.132.9]) by maul.immure.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8K4OJX4002043 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:24:19 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob@immure.com) Received: from rancor.immure.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rancor.immure.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8K4OIdZ012470 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:24:18 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob@rancor.immure.com) Received: (from bob@localhost) by rancor.immure.com (8.14.2/8.13.8/Submit) id m8K4OIp7012469 for freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:24:18 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:24:18 -0500 From: Bob Willcox To: FreeBSD Message-ID: <20080920042418.GB1322@rancor.immure.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-immure-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner-ID: m8K4OJX4002043 X-immure-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-immure-MailScanner-From: bob@immure.com X-Spam-Status: No Subject: RELENG_7 hangs on boot w/Gigabyte MA78GM-S2H MB X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Bob Willcox List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 04:42:11 -0000 Hi All, I'm trying to get the latest RELENG_7 to run on my new Gigabyte MA78GM-S2H motherboard and am experiencing a hang on boot right after it prints the message: Trying to mount root from ufs:/dev/ad4s1a At this point it is hung and doesn't respond to any keyboard input. I originally attempted to install the 7.1 beta system with similar results (prevented me from installing). I then installed 7.0-release and though the install succeeded it never did "see" the Realtek ethernet controller so I had no network capability. Has anyone else seen this behavior. Any ideas/suggestions on what I can do to further track it down. In addition to the motherboard, the system has a Phenom 8650 processor and 4GB of memory. The disk is a 320GB SATA WD Caviar. Thanks, Bob -- Bob Willcox All the evidence concerning the universe bob@immure.com has not yet been collected, so there's still hope. Austin, TX From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 05:44:31 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E5BB1065672 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 05:44:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from mail.netconsonance.com (mail.netconsonance.com [198.207.204.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10B048FC12 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 05:44:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) Received: from [172.16.12.8] (covad-jrhett.meer.net [209.157.140.144]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netconsonance.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m8K5huYI056139; Fri, 19 Sep 2008 22:43:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jrhett@netconsonance.com) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netconsonance.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.408 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.408 tagged_above=-999 required=3.5 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1.44, AWL=-0.968] Message-Id: From: Jo Rhett To: Gary Palmer In-Reply-To: <20080920044148.GA60230@in-addr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v928.1) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 22:43:56 -0700 References: <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <15F15FD1-3C53-4018-8792-BC63289DC4C2@netconsonance.com> <448wtpcikb.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> <34C3D54B-C88C-4C36-B1FE-C07FC27F8CB5@netconsonance.com> <20080920020703.GA82392@phat.za.net> <851F09A2-788D-4343-9E00-A0AB5C3AC063@netconsonance.com> <20080920044148.GA60230@in-addr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.928.1) Cc: freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 05:44:31 -0000 On Sep 19, 2008, at 9:41 PM, Gary Palmer wrote: > On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 07:38:32PM -0700, Jo Rhett wrote: >> Without input from the current release team extending the support >> schedule is not possible. > > Inquiry - is release team the constraint? I don't know. I asked why not, and was told the release team said this was all they could do with the resources they have. No further information has been provided. > Or to put it another way, what to you is "support" in terms of > FreeBSD releases. As far as I am aware, if you stick on a > RELENG_X_Y_Z_RELEASE tag > then the most you get is security fixes. No new features, > no new drivers, no bugfixes. So if I am interpreting things > correctly, you are asking for security fixes to be ported to > RELEASE tagged branches for longer? That is what I and my $EMPLOYER want yes, although as I said I am willing to support other efforts. (ie I am unlikely to be the difference between make or break on this effort, so if more support was something that got other businesses involved enough to achieve that change, then....) > So is release team the contrained resource in your problem? > I am not denying that *any* part of the FreeBSD team is not > resource constrained, but I'm wondering if you're examining > the correct area. That's a good question I don't have the answer to. Nobody has actually defined the problem to me beyond the statement above. This is why it's difficult to determine how to best proceed. Until the real problems are laid on the table (so to speak) I haven't the foggiest idea where/how/when to help, nor whether or not my or anyone else's assistance would be useful. (one assumes it would) -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 09:58:05 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF21B106566B; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:58:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oleg@opentransfer.com) Received: from smh01.opentransfer.com (smh01.opentransfer.com [71.18.216.112]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7768B8FC12; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:58:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oleg@opentransfer.com) Received: by smh01.opentransfer.com (Postfix, from userid 8) id 093031020BE4; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 05:55:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on smh01.opentransfer.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.6 required=5.0 tests=MIME_QP_LONG_LINE,RDNS_NONE autolearn=disabled version=3.2.4 Received: from webmail6.opentransfer.com (unknown [69.49.230.6]) by smh01.opentransfer.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7679102082C; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 05:55:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail6.opentransfer.com (webmail6.opentransfer.com [127.0.0.1]) by webmail6.opentransfer.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m8K9w38I015277; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 04:58:03 -0500 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by webmail6.opentransfer.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id m8K9w3D3015276; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 12:58:03 +0300 X-Authentication-Warning: webmail6.opentransfer.com: nobody set sender to oleg@opentransfer.com using -f Received: from cabin.theweb.org.ua (cabin.theweb.org.ua [91.195.184.50]) by webmail.opentransfer.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 12:58:03 +0300 Message-ID: <20080920125803.d81jiet544cgc8g4@webmail.opentransfer.com> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 12:58:03 +0300 From: "Oleg V. Nauman" To: Robert Watson References: <20080918180543.pt7s2zmaio48ww8g@webmail.opentransfer.com> <20080919143636.p661cjfopw44osco@webmail.opentransfer.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.4) X-Originating-IP: 91.195.184.50 Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RELENG_7: something is very wrong with UDP? X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:58:05 -0000 Quoting Robert Watson : > > On Fri, 19 Sep 2008, Oleg V. Nauman wrote: > >>> (1) Start by deleting all but one nameserver entry in /etc/resolv.conf. >>> Confirm that you can still reproduce the problem. >> >> Due to various reasons my laptop running local caching DNS server ( =20 >> named ) without any forwarders assigned. My /etc/resolv.conf =20 >> contains nameserver 127.0.0.1 > > This is simplifying in some senses, but complicating in others. In > particular, the question it raises is whether the problem is in the DNS > resolver or the nameserver. Seeing a tcpdump of lo0 for DNS traffic > would be quite interesting, since we could look at timestamps and try > to place the blame a bit more precisely. > >>> Could you >>> also use procstat -k on the dig process to generate a kernel stack tra= ce >>> for it? > > Let's add to this list: when the problem happens, could you also > procstat -k the name server process(es)? > >> And procstat -kk output for logger process waiting: >> >> PID TID COMM TDNAME KSTACK >> 1421 100095 logger - mi_switch+0x2c8 =20 >> sleepq_switch+0xd9 sleepq_catch_signals+0x239 sleepq_wait_sig+0x14 =20 >> _sleep+0x35f pipe_read+0x389 dofileread+0x96 kern_readv+0x58 =20 >> read+0x4f syscall+0x2b3 Xint0x80_syscall+0x20 > > Interesting -- logger is blocked on reading from a pipe, likely > standard input. So it sounds like something else is failing to > complete in a timely manner -- perhaps due to DNS. Nothing strange with this because it was kernel stack for logger =20 waiting on background fsck output ( bgfsck was never starting though ) > >>> This is approximately the date of my last UDP MFC. Could you try =20 >>> backing out just src/sys/netinet6/udp6_usrreq.c revision 1.81.2.7 =20 >>> and see if that helps? (specifically, restore the use of =20 >>> sosend_generic instead of sosend_dgram) > > If you can show that it's definitely a problem with the change to > sosend_dgram for UDPv6 socket send, then it might suggest it's the same > problem that it is related to the UDPv46 code there. In which case I > will propose we back out that portion of the change in the 7-stable > branch until it's known to be resolved -- I don't want other people > tripping over this. Sorry for false alarm regarding UDP issues.. Have noticed that my =20 clock is stop incrementing ( it explaining the zeroes in traceroute =20 output also ). It gave me idea what is related to this issue so =20 performed backout revision 1.243.2.4 of src/sys/dev/acpica/acpi.c and =20 it fixes my issues.. Looks like it stops incrementing the timecounters =20 on my laptop.. Ironically speaking I was this ACPI behavior change initiator ( I was =20 reporting "ACPI HPET stops working on my RELENG_7" at July 19 to =20 stable@freebsd.org) so jhb@ implemented a patch and it was working for =20 me those days. Something was changed during the next 2 months so this =20 patch causing issues instead the success on my hardware. I will play a =20 bit with kern.timecounter.choice at Monday and report it back to jhb@ =20 then. > >>> Could you try compiling your kernel with WITNESS to see if we get =20 >>> any extended debugging information? >> >> Have added WITNESS ( and STACK required by procstat ) options but =20 >> it is not producing any output ( so no LORs or something like this ) > > OK. Could you try adding INVARIANT_SUPPORT and INVARIANTS if they > aren't there? Be aware: this may convert the wedging you are > experiencing into a kernel panic. No output produced with INVARIANT_SUPPORT and INVARIANTS support =20 included in the kernel. And no kernel panic produced :) Thank you for =20 excellent work. > >>>> Is anybody experiencing the same issues with fresh RELENG_7? =20 >>>> Unsure it is my local issues though >>> >>> I'm not experiencing them, but these sorts of things can be quite =20 >>> subtle and workload-dependent. >> >> Well experiencing this issue during the system boot even.. > > OK. So there must be something a bit different about your setup -- > perhaps there's something specific about the way things are interacting > over the loopback address for the name server. Is this the stock > system BIND9 or something else? Are you able to temporarily switch to I have stock system BIND running > an external name server and see if that changes things? > > Robert N M Watson > Computer Laboratory > University of Cambridge From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 10:37:26 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51ED6106566B for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 10:37:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0856C8FC0A for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 10:37:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [65.122.17.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CA1046B8B; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 06:37:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 11:37:25 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Jo Rhett In-Reply-To: <34C3D54B-C88C-4C36-B1FE-C07FC27F8CB5@netconsonance.com> Message-ID: References: <1219409496.10487.22.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <20080904133604.GB1188@atarininja.org> <47d0403c0809051319r3c82f87bhdb15ce5b0167987a@mail.gmail.com> <2742CAB1-8FF2-425D-A3B6-0658D7DB8F4D@netconsonance.com> <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <15F15FD1-3C53-4018-8792-BC63289DC4C2@netconsonance.com> <448wtpcikb.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> <34C3D54B-C88C-4C36-B1FE-C07FC27F8CB5@netconsonance.com> User-Agent: Alpine 1.10 (BSF 962 2008-03-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-stable , Lowell Gilbert Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 10:37:26 -0000 On Fri, 19 Sep 2008, Jo Rhett wrote: > Look, I understand what you're saying here. And I don't discredit or > disagree that it shouldn't be handled this way. But what you have addressed > is a stepwise integration policy of a developer, and does not address how to > get a business to commit those resources. > > Why? Because you are asking for the business to commit the resources > without a goal. No, I'm not saying that FreeBSD has to guarantee anything. > We both know that guarantees on open source projects aren't worth much. This whole discussion is about open source guarantees -- after some extensive discussions and careful thinking about available resources, the FreeBSD Project declared a set of guarantees about what FreeBSD versions we would continue to support over time. We tried to be realistic about the level of staffing available, the nature of the vulnerabilities that would arise, and the degree to which conservative highly incremental changes could be used to support a branch long after release. The problem is that the 18 months for all releases + extra time for extended support releases is still a short period of time. The tension here is between making promises we can definitely keep and starting to make promises that we can't. We'd like to err on the former, rather than latter, side. > What I'm saying is that your scoped outline has no goal. Nothing to even > reach for. Except maybe perhaps a commit bit for me. If I had wanted a > commit bit, I'm sure I would have one by now. I'm not particularly worried > about that. I don't even really care to have one (though I would if that > was necessary). > > But that's the highest goal of your outlined scope. A commit bit. You already identified the end goal: extend support lifetimes. You placed constraint on how that could be accomplished: you were going to do the work. What I've done is identified our normal model for getting from the current starting point (a guy on a mailing list who, while enthusiastic, hasn't shown us the beef) to the proposed outcome (a guy on the security-officer team, commit access required to participate in the support process, etc). Here are the subgoals I broke it out into: - To really contribute to the discussion about support lifetimes and contribute during non-disclosure periods, you need to be on the security officer team and a FreeBSD committer. The former to you have access to the required information and discussion, the latter so that you can act on it. - To be on the security officer team, you need to be a FreeBSD committer in good standing who has shown both the technical acumen and long-term commitment to the project required to work effectively on that team. Because sensitive information is involved, and because we give the security officer team special privileges in the project to accomplish its task, we select proposed members very carefully. - To be a FreeBSD committer, you need to have show a signficant long-term commitment to the project, the ability to identify and work with a mentor, and build the confidence of the core team that you are a candidate in whom we can place significant trust (direct write access to the source code of a system deploy on literally millions of devices). - To show a significant long-term commitment to the project, you need to identify past work and context for your potential future contributions and find a potential mentor (committer) with whom you have an existing professional relationship. Common examples are things like "has worked with you over an extended period to get your work merged," or "someone who has been watching your work over time and concluded that they are in a good position to go through the mentoring process with you." > If you've seen the appropriate Southpark episode: "Step 3: Profit!" "Dude, > what's step 2?" Let's make sure we understand each other clearly: the reason you're getting replies using words like "demand" is that it is easy to read your e-mails in exactly the above light. It is not a stretch to interpret them as reading, "Put me on the security officer team without having gone through any of the normal processes used to vet a new member". We can talk about changing the process, but I think you can't contribute to that conversation constructively without understanding the process. Simply demanding change (and that's how it reads) shows a lack of respect for how we got to where we are, and puts people people on the defensive. Or offensive, in some cases. :-) > There's *nothing* wrong with what you have said. What you have said makes > perfect sense from an integration perspective. But I don't think it > addresses the issues at hand -- businesses need to have explicit goals and > at least a haphazard guess at the requirements to reach those goals before > they'll commit resources. If you approach a software company and say "Look, we like your product, but it would really help us if you supported each minor release for 24 instead of 18 months, and the way you're going to do this is put our employee on your security response team", I think you'd see a lot of raised eyebrows there as well. To convince the company to do this, unless you're really shoving a *lot* of money at them, you'll need to build credibility as a consumer, work with them to identify appropriate resources, and go through their vetting process. When it comes to commercial OS products, like Windows and Mac OS X, there is often a strict requirement to live on the most recent minor release in order to continue to receive support. For example, you won't make a lot of headway turning up at Apple and demanding security updates for Mac OS X 10.5.0 a year after it has been released. The answer will be "Great, update 10.5.3" (or something along those lines) -- not only will it fix the security issues, but it will support the hardware we now sell. In that sense, we're actually quite different: rather than saying "Sorry, 6.2 is vulnerable, please upgrade to 6.3", we say "You can live on 6.2 for up to 18 months and receive *only* security and critical errata patches". Don't get me wrong: I would love to see us support all releases for 24 months (or even more) after they ship. I think our users would appreciate that also. But it's not as simple as turning up and saying "My company wants me to do it". Our community can change over time, but we do this slowly and carefully because we want to maintain the properties that produced the community that attracted its current members. That is to say: a community of developers in which a high level of trust can be placed implicitly in its members because they have gone through a significant vetting process that not only considers their technical background, but also their ability to work within the community socially, and their commitment to the project they are joining. There are some edge cases in the model that we might appeal to -- for example, in the presence of a highly competent mentor, we might allow the sponsoring for a commit bit of an employee of a company who will only work in a narrow area affecting their product, and see more than the usual supervision. This is sometimes the case for committers from hardware companies so that they can maintain device drivers they have been writing and submitting for some time, in which case the proposal can bank on the credibility of the company's contributions despite a weakness in the credibility of the individual. This requires a highly engaged mentor and some very careful thinking about scope. > I don't see these problems as being in conflict. > > In fact, I would personally suggest that most of the resources you need to > improve your releases don't need commit bits. I personally have no > objection at all to running all patches through another set (or two, or > three) of eyeballs. It's a damn good practice ;-) It's unlikely to slow me > down one bit. > > ^^^ you may know more about the resource limitations and why commit bits are > necessary to relieve your resource strain. In that situation, please > educate me. Or everyone. In particular, I'll be happy to buy you > coffee/beer/poison of choice at your leisure if that would make this easier. Commit bits serve two functions: - They are credential based on a reasonable vetting process, used both as an authenticator and for the purposes of authorization and policy. - They are tool required to do work -- commit to appropriate branches, etc. I think it's the former category in which it plays the strongest role here: reviewing patches can be done without a commit bit, as you say, but the commit bit reflects a level of trust in a contributor and is a good tool for this. The strategy I laid out doesn't have to culminate in a commit bit, but it does have to culiminate in something functionally congruent: you need to build your credibility as a technical contributor to the project before we hook you up to confidential vulnerability mailing lists, give you early access to patches, and so on. Whether you build credibility in the most direct way for this "job" by essentially doing it independently until we break down and say "despite being a bit pushy ont he mailing lists, he's really done this well and would make a good candidate to join secteam so that we can make this unofficial thing official". (See also: freebsd-update) The "tool" element isn't unimportant either: preparing patches for commit benefits significantly from doing it in the context of revision control -- we expect members of the security team to take ownership of vulnerabilities, driving them through analysis, correction, QA, merge, and writing and release of the security advisory. This allows individual issues to move independently through the process, and avoids the synchronization issues associated with pipelined handling (i.e., lots of explicit handoffs through stages owned by different members). It is fundamentally collaborative work, but experience suggests that having owners for issues makes the system function better. Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 10:40:00 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84DC11065670; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 10:40:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55E1B8FC18; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 10:40:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [65.122.17.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B40146B03; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 06:40:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 11:39:59 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: "Oleg V. Nauman" In-Reply-To: <20080920125803.d81jiet544cgc8g4@webmail.opentransfer.com> Message-ID: References: <20080918180543.pt7s2zmaio48ww8g@webmail.opentransfer.com> <20080919143636.p661cjfopw44osco@webmail.opentransfer.com> <20080920125803.d81jiet544cgc8g4@webmail.opentransfer.com> User-Agent: Alpine 1.10 (BSF 962 2008-03-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, jhb@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RELENG_7: something is very wrong with UDP? X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 10:40:00 -0000 On Sat, 20 Sep 2008, Oleg V. Nauman wrote: > Sorry for false alarm regarding UDP issues.. Have noticed that my clock is > stop incrementing ( it explaining the zeroes in traceroute output also ). It > gave me idea what is related to this issue so performed backout revision > 1.243.2.4 of src/sys/dev/acpica/acpi.c and it fixes my issues.. Looks like > it stops incrementing the timecounters on my laptop.. Ironically speaking I > was this ACPI behavior change initiator ( I was reporting "ACPI HPET stops > working on my RELENG_7" at July 19 to stable@freebsd.org) so jhb@ > implemented a patch and it was working for me those days. Something was > changed during the next 2 months so this patch causing issues instead the > success on my hardware. I will play a bit with kern.timecounter.choice at > Monday and report it back to jhb@ then. OK, sounds like this is outside of my area of expertise, and indeed, John Baldwin is the right person to talk to. I've added him to the CC line so he can find the thread. Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 12:39:16 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2DFF1065697 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 12:39:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from QMTA02.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta02.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.24]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 977E48FC21 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 12:39:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from OMTA02.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.19]) by QMTA02.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id GzXN1a00D0QuhwU520f4mi; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 12:39:04 +0000 Received: from koitsu.dyndns.org ([67.180.253.227]) by OMTA02.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id H0eo1a00B4v8bD73N0eodA; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 12:38:49 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=oQuFZAtZTQQA:10 a=R4Gw6U_aiVgA:10 a=Wi8YH2NmAAAA:8 a=QycZ5dHgAAAA:8 a=ZWxhShjP9W5FKUpT-UEA:9 a=SAasJXRwnOHE0VIuAYHWGdJS1gkA:4 a=EoioJ0NPDVgA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 Received: by icarus.home.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 22FED17B81A; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 05:39:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 05:39:14 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Bob Willcox Message-ID: <20080920123914.GA72833@icarus.home.lan> References: <20080920042418.GB1322@rancor.immure.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080920042418.GB1322@rancor.immure.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: FreeBSD Subject: Re: RELENG_7 hangs on boot w/Gigabyte MA78GM-S2H MB X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 12:39:17 -0000 On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 11:24:18PM -0500, Bob Willcox wrote: > Hi All, > > I'm trying to get the latest RELENG_7 to run on my new Gigabyte > MA78GM-S2H motherboard and am experiencing a hang on boot right after it > prints the message: > > Trying to mount root from ufs:/dev/ad4s1a > > At this point it is hung and doesn't respond to any keyboard input. > > I originally attempted to install the 7.1 beta system with similar > results (prevented me from installing). I then installed 7.0-release > and though the install succeeded it never did "see" the Realtek > ethernet controller so I had no network capability. You're describing multiple problems in a single Email. This is liable to get complex. 1) It would be helpful to know if you installed i386 or amd64 FreeBSD, 2) With regards to the lock-up after "mount root", if you press NumLock or CapsLock, do the keyboard LEDs turn on/off? 3) Many others have seen the hanging/lock-up after "mount root". I believe one found a workaround by setting ATA_STATIC_ID in their kernel configuration. I realise this is a problem when you can't get the system up to a point of building a kernel; chicken-and-egg problem, 4) The Realtek NIC on that motherboard is probably too new to be supported under RELENG_7. Realtek has a history of releasing different sub-revisions of the same NIC/PHY, and the internal changes are severe enough to cause the NIC to not work correctly (under any OS) without full driver support for that specific sub-revision. All above said: Can you please try one of the RELENG_7 ISO snapshots at the below site, instead of the official 7.0-RELEASE ISO, and report back if that solves either of your problems? The below site contains ISOs built daily, rather than monthly: http://pub.allbsd.org/FreeBSD-snapshots/ -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 13:24:34 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A9D7106564A for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:24:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@immure.com) Received: from maul.immure.com (adsl-66-136-206-1.dsl.austtx.swbell.net [66.136.206.1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED0EA8FC19 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:24:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@immure.com) Received: from rancor.immure.com (rancor.immure.com [10.1.132.9]) by maul.immure.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8KDOUlK013011; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 08:24:30 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob@immure.com) Received: from rancor.immure.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rancor.immure.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8KDOT3o015417; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 08:24:29 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob@rancor.immure.com) Received: (from bob@localhost) by rancor.immure.com (8.14.2/8.13.8/Submit) id m8KDOTht015416; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 08:24:29 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 08:24:29 -0500 From: Bob Willcox To: Jeremy Chadwick Message-ID: <20080920132429.GA15275@rancor.immure.com> References: <20080920042418.GB1322@rancor.immure.com> <20080920123914.GA72833@icarus.home.lan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080920123914.GA72833@icarus.home.lan> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-immure-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner-ID: m8KDOUlK013011 X-immure-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-immure-MailScanner-From: bob@immure.com X-Spam-Status: No Cc: FreeBSD Subject: Re: RELENG_7 hangs on boot w/Gigabyte MA78GM-S2H MB X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Bob Willcox List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:24:34 -0000 On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 05:39:14AM -0700, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 11:24:18PM -0500, Bob Willcox wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > I'm trying to get the latest RELENG_7 to run on my new Gigabyte > > MA78GM-S2H motherboard and am experiencing a hang on boot right after it > > prints the message: > > > > Trying to mount root from ufs:/dev/ad4s1a > > > > At this point it is hung and doesn't respond to any keyboard input. > > > > I originally attempted to install the 7.1 beta system with similar > > results (prevented me from installing). I then installed 7.0-release > > and though the install succeeded it never did "see" the Realtek > > ethernet controller so I had no network capability. > > You're describing multiple problems in a single Email. This is liable > to get complex. Sorry, that wasn't my intention. I was just trying to document my experience with this particular motherboard (I have a number of others that work fine with FreeBSD 7-stable, this one I'm typing this on is a very similar Gigabyte board in fact). > > 1) It would be helpful to know if you installed i386 or amd64 FreeBSD, This is amd64 on this particular machine. > > 2) With regards to the lock-up after "mount root", if you press NumLock > or CapsLock, do the keyboard LEDs turn on/off? Nope, no keys do anything. You must either push reset or pull the plug. > > 3) Many others have seen the hanging/lock-up after "mount root". I > believe one found a workaround by setting ATA_STATIC_ID in their kernel > configuration. I realise this is a problem when you can't get the > system up to a point of building a kernel; chicken-and-egg problem, Well, I can build a kernel if I run the 7.0-release kernel. That's how I got to 7-stable on the machine in the first place. I used "sneaker net" to copy it to this one via a CD (as I mentioned, the 7.0 kernel boots but the Realtek ethernet device is not recognized). > > 4) The Realtek NIC on that motherboard is probably too new to be > supported under RELENG_7. Realtek has a history of releasing different > sub-revisions of the same NIC/PHY, and the internal changes are severe > enough to cause the NIC to not work correctly (under any OS) without > full driver support for that specific sub-revision. That's what I suspected. The values displayed when doing a "pciconf -lv" are similar as for this system I'm using to type this, but now that I look closer and make a direct comparison, the failing device has a rev=0x02 vs. rev=0x01 for the working one. The pciconf -lv output for the failing mb is: none3@pci0:2:0:0: class=0x020000 card=0xe0001458 chip=0x816810ec rev=0x02 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Realtek Semiconductor' device = 'RTL8168/8111 PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet NIC' class = network subclass = ethernet > > All above said: > > Can you please try one of the RELENG_7 ISO snapshots at the below site, > instead of the official 7.0-RELEASE ISO, and report back if that solves > either of your problems? The below site contains ISOs built daily, > rather than monthly: I'll be happy to try that, but the kernel I most recently tried was from 7-stable source that I cvsup'd just yesterday. Since both the official 7.1-BETA and very recent 7-stable hang the same way I suspect that all of the newer kernels will experience this hang. Let me know if you still think it's worth trying one of the snapshots. I do plan to try the ATA_STATIC_ID setting that you mentioned above to see if that helps. Let me know if there is anything else I should try. I am able to build kernels so long as I run the 7.0 kernel (and work around the network problem). Thanks for your time & response! Bob > > http://pub.allbsd.org/FreeBSD-snapshots/ > > -- > | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | > | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | > | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | > | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | -- Bob Willcox All the evidence concerning the universe bob@immure.com has not yet been collected, so there's still hope. Austin, TX From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 14:05:04 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CD2F1065675 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:05:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from QMTA06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.56]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C92298FC20 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:04:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from OMTA09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.20]) by QMTA06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id H1981a0030SCNGk5624x81; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:04:57 +0000 Received: from koitsu.dyndns.org ([67.180.253.227]) by OMTA09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id H24w1a0094v8bD73V24xBf; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:04:57 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=oQuFZAtZTQQA:10 a=R4Gw6U_aiVgA:10 a=QycZ5dHgAAAA:8 a=5CeT-UZAeKHmXW0Dus8A:9 a=HmQcz8fcuCCJ7bQi-KG4yNxzd3AA:4 a=EoioJ0NPDVgA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 Received: by icarus.home.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8D3B917B81A; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 07:04:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 07:04:56 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Bob Willcox Message-ID: <20080920140456.GA74663@icarus.home.lan> References: <20080920042418.GB1322@rancor.immure.com> <20080920123914.GA72833@icarus.home.lan> <20080920132429.GA15275@rancor.immure.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080920132429.GA15275@rancor.immure.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: PYUN Yong-Hyeon , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RELENG_7 hangs on boot w/Gigabyte MA78GM-S2H MB X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:05:04 -0000 On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 08:24:29AM -0500, Bob Willcox wrote: > > 1) It would be helpful to know if you installed i386 or amd64 FreeBSD, > > This is amd64 on this particular machine. > > > 2) With regards to the lock-up after "mount root", if you press NumLock > > or CapsLock, do the keyboard LEDs turn on/off? > > Nope, no keys do anything. You must either push reset or pull the plug. Is it possible to get the output when booting in verbose mode? If not, what are the last few lines before the machine locks up when booting verbosely? > > 3) Many others have seen the hanging/lock-up after "mount root". I > > believe one found a workaround by setting ATA_STATIC_ID in their kernel > > configuration. I realise this is a problem when you can't get the > > system up to a point of building a kernel; chicken-and-egg problem, > > Well, I can build a kernel if I run the 7.0-release kernel. That's how I > got to 7-stable on the machine in the first place. I used "sneaker net" > to copy it to this one via a CD (as I mentioned, the 7.0 kernel boots > but the Realtek ethernet device is not recognized). So the problem is that 7.0-RELEASE works fine for you, but after upgrading your RELENG_7 source (to what is now 7.1-BETA), the machine hangs after printing the mount root message. Is this correct? Here's another question: does booting into single-user exhibit the same problem as multi-user? > > 4) The Realtek NIC on that motherboard is probably too new to be > > supported under RELENG_7. Realtek has a history of releasing different > > sub-revisions of the same NIC/PHY, and the internal changes are severe > > enough to cause the NIC to not work correctly (under any OS) without > > full driver support for that specific sub-revision. > > That's what I suspected. The values displayed when doing a "pciconf -lv" > are similar as for this system I'm using to type this, but now that > I look closer and make a direct comparison, the failing device has a > rev=0x02 vs. rev=0x01 for the working one. The pciconf -lv output for > the failing mb is: > > none3@pci0:2:0:0: class=0x020000 card=0xe0001458 chip=0x816810ec rev=0x02 hdr=0x00 > vendor = 'Realtek Semiconductor' > device = 'RTL8168/8111 PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet NIC' > class = network > subclass = ethernet Regarding the Realtek issue: I've CC'd PYUN Yong-Hyeon (surname in caps), who maintains the re(4) driver for FreeBSD. He might have a patch available for you to try, or help determine how to get this NIC working on FreeBSD. He'll probably need more than just pciconf -lv output, but should be able to work with you. Thanks! -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 14:39:56 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 190441065682 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:39:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from talon@lpthe.jussieu.fr) Received: from shiva.jussieu.fr (shiva.jussieu.fr [134.157.0.129]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DAB48FC1C for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:39:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from talon@lpthe.jussieu.fr) Received: from parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.1]) by shiva.jussieu.fr (8.14.3/jtpda-5.4) with ESMTP id m8KEdr89005859 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 16:39:54 +0200 (CEST) X-Ids: 165 Received: from niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.41]) by parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE96A8A296 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 16:39:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: by niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Postfix, from userid 2005) id 9C56910B; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 16:39:52 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 16:39:52 +0200 From: Michel Talon To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20080920143952.GA16747@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Mail-Followup-To: Michel Talon , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (shiva.jussieu.fr [134.157.0.165]); Sat, 20 Sep 2008 16:39:54 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.3/8291/Sat Sep 20 13:50:48 2008 on shiva.jussieu.fr X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Miltered: at jchkmail2.jussieu.fr with ID 48D4EF3C.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 48D4EF3C.007/134.157.10.1/parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr/parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 48D4EF3C.007 on jchkmail2.jussieu.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.142 -> S=0.142 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Cc: Subject: Problem with dtrace X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:39:56 -0000 Still testing FreeBSD-7.1-beta encountered the following (perhaps to be expected) result with dtrace: dtrace -m kernel -> some output -> deadlock after a few seconds. Less demanding tracing worked OK. -- Michel TALON From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 14:45:14 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D2DC106564A; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:45:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@immure.com) Received: from maul.immure.com (adsl-66-136-206-1.dsl.austtx.swbell.net [66.136.206.1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF7D58FC14; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:45:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@immure.com) Received: from rancor.immure.com (rancor.immure.com [10.1.132.9]) by maul.immure.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8KEjAMM014070; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:45:10 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob@immure.com) Received: from rancor.immure.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rancor.immure.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8KEjAcR015731; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:45:10 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob@rancor.immure.com) Received: (from bob@localhost) by rancor.immure.com (8.14.2/8.13.8/Submit) id m8KEjAOS015730; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:45:10 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:45:10 -0500 From: Bob Willcox To: Jeremy Chadwick Message-ID: <20080920144510.GB15275@rancor.immure.com> References: <20080920042418.GB1322@rancor.immure.com> <20080920123914.GA72833@icarus.home.lan> <20080920132429.GA15275@rancor.immure.com> <20080920140456.GA74663@icarus.home.lan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080920140456.GA74663@icarus.home.lan> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-immure-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner-ID: m8KEjAMM014070 X-immure-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-immure-MailScanner-From: bob@immure.com X-Spam-Status: No Cc: PYUN Yong-Hyeon , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RELENG_7 hangs on boot w/Gigabyte MA78GM-S2H MB X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Bob Willcox List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:45:14 -0000 On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 07:04:56AM -0700, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 08:24:29AM -0500, Bob Willcox wrote: > > > 1) It would be helpful to know if you installed i386 or amd64 FreeBSD, > > > > This is amd64 on this particular machine. > > > > > 2) With regards to the lock-up after "mount root", if you press NumLock > > > or CapsLock, do the keyboard LEDs turn on/off? > > > > Nope, no keys do anything. You must either push reset or pull the plug. > > Is it possible to get the output when booting in verbose mode? If not, > what are the last few lines before the machine locks up when booting > verbosely? Yep, just did that. The last things printed right before hang are: ioapic0: Assigning ISA IRQ 1 to local APIC 0 ioapic0: Assigning ISA IRQ 4 to local APIC 1 ioapic0: Assigning ISA IRQ 6 to local APIC 2 ioapic0: Assigning ISA IRQ 7 to local APIC 0 ioapic0: Assigning ISA IRQ 9 to local APIC 1 ioapic0: Assigning ISA IRQ 12 to local APIC 2 ioapic0: Assigning ISA IRQ 14 to local APIC 0 ioapic0: Assigning ISA PCI 16 to local APIC 1 ioapic0: Assigning ISA PCI 17 to local APIC 2 ioapic0: Assigning ISA PCI 18 to local APIC 0 ioapic0: Assigning ISA PCI 19 to local APIC 1 ioapic0: Assigning ISA PCI 22 to local APIC 2 trying to mount root from ufs:/dev/ad4s1a start_init: trying /sbin/init [hung at this point] > > > > 3) Many others have seen the hanging/lock-up after "mount root". I > > > believe one found a workaround by setting ATA_STATIC_ID in their kernel > > > configuration. I realise this is a problem when you can't get the > > > system up to a point of building a kernel; chicken-and-egg problem, > > > > Well, I can build a kernel if I run the 7.0-release kernel. That's how I > > got to 7-stable on the machine in the first place. I used "sneaker net" > > to copy it to this one via a CD (as I mentioned, the 7.0 kernel boots > > but the Realtek ethernet device is not recognized). > > So the problem is that 7.0-RELEASE works fine for you, but after > upgrading your RELENG_7 source (to what is now 7.1-BETA), the machine > hangs after printing the mount root message. Is this correct? Yes, that is pretty much it. The Realtek ethernet isn't working in in 7.0-RELEASE either, but I'm guessing that that is a different (and less serious) problem related to changes in that device. > > Here's another question: does booting into single-user exhibit the same > problem as multi-user? It looks like when I try a single-user mode (and verbose) boot the only difference is that the las line shown above (the start_init line) isn't printed. Otherwise, the hang is the same. > > > > 4) The Realtek NIC on that motherboard is probably too new to be > > > supported under RELENG_7. Realtek has a history of releasing different > > > sub-revisions of the same NIC/PHY, and the internal changes are severe > > > enough to cause the NIC to not work correctly (under any OS) without > > > full driver support for that specific sub-revision. > > > > That's what I suspected. The values displayed when doing a "pciconf -lv" > > are similar as for this system I'm using to type this, but now that > > I look closer and make a direct comparison, the failing device has a > > rev=0x02 vs. rev=0x01 for the working one. The pciconf -lv output for > > the failing mb is: > > > > none3@pci0:2:0:0: class=0x020000 card=0xe0001458 chip=0x816810ec rev=0x02 hdr=0x00 > > vendor = 'Realtek Semiconductor' > > device = 'RTL8168/8111 PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet NIC' > > class = network > > subclass = ethernet > > Regarding the Realtek issue: I've CC'd PYUN Yong-Hyeon (surname in > caps), who maintains the re(4) driver for FreeBSD. He might have a > patch available for you to try, or help determine how to get this NIC > working on FreeBSD. He'll probably need more than just pciconf -lv > output, but should be able to work with you. Ok, that'd be great. I must say that I'm close to simply returning this MB and going with something not quite so new that is more likely to work. I was hoping to get this system up and running this weekend. :( Thanks, Bob > > Thanks! > > -- > | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | > | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | > | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | > | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | -- Bob Willcox All the evidence concerning the universe bob@immure.com has not yet been collected, so there's still hope. Austin, TX From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 15:05:37 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 571BC1065673 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 15:05:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from QMTA09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.96]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E94F08FC19 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 15:05:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from OMTA07.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.59]) by QMTA09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id GzgU1a0071GhbT85935crV; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 15:05:36 +0000 Received: from koitsu.dyndns.org ([67.180.253.227]) by OMTA07.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id H35a1a0024v8bD73T35atl; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 15:05:35 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=oQuFZAtZTQQA:10 a=R4Gw6U_aiVgA:10 a=QycZ5dHgAAAA:8 a=dE2hq7EckL5WOAzrKXkA:9 a=m-Aakde5uNjhPkA0aYcA:7 a=5TcHQiYVw5lDvvp2qnAaUgZyZz4A:4 a=EoioJ0NPDVgA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 Received: by icarus.home.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9728C17B81A; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 08:05:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 08:05:33 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Bob Willcox Message-ID: <20080920150533.GA75785@icarus.home.lan> References: <20080920042418.GB1322@rancor.immure.com> <20080920123914.GA72833@icarus.home.lan> <20080920132429.GA15275@rancor.immure.com> <20080920140456.GA74663@icarus.home.lan> <20080920144510.GB15275@rancor.immure.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080920144510.GB15275@rancor.immure.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: PYUN Yong-Hyeon , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RELENG_7 hangs on boot w/Gigabyte MA78GM-S2H MB X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 15:05:37 -0000 On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 09:45:10AM -0500, Bob Willcox wrote: > On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 07:04:56AM -0700, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > > On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 08:24:29AM -0500, Bob Willcox wrote: > > > > 1) It would be helpful to know if you installed i386 or amd64 FreeBSD, > > > > > > This is amd64 on this particular machine. > > > > > > > 2) With regards to the lock-up after "mount root", if you press NumLock > > > > or CapsLock, do the keyboard LEDs turn on/off? > > > > > > Nope, no keys do anything. You must either push reset or pull the plug. > > > > Is it possible to get the output when booting in verbose mode? If not, > > what are the last few lines before the machine locks up when booting > > verbosely? > > Yep, just did that. The last things printed right before hang are: > > ioapic0: Assigning ISA IRQ 1 to local APIC 0 > ioapic0: Assigning ISA IRQ 4 to local APIC 1 > ioapic0: Assigning ISA IRQ 6 to local APIC 2 > ioapic0: Assigning ISA IRQ 7 to local APIC 0 > ioapic0: Assigning ISA IRQ 9 to local APIC 1 > ioapic0: Assigning ISA IRQ 12 to local APIC 2 > ioapic0: Assigning ISA IRQ 14 to local APIC 0 > ioapic0: Assigning ISA PCI 16 to local APIC 1 > ioapic0: Assigning ISA PCI 17 to local APIC 2 > ioapic0: Assigning ISA PCI 18 to local APIC 0 > ioapic0: Assigning ISA PCI 19 to local APIC 1 > ioapic0: Assigning ISA PCI 22 to local APIC 2 > trying to mount root from ufs:/dev/ad4s1a > start_init: trying /sbin/init > [hung at this point] > > > > > 3) Many others have seen the hanging/lock-up after "mount root". I > > > > believe one found a workaround by setting ATA_STATIC_ID in their kernel > > > > configuration. I realise this is a problem when you can't get the > > > > system up to a point of building a kernel; chicken-and-egg problem, > > > > > > Well, I can build a kernel if I run the 7.0-release kernel. That's how I > > > got to 7-stable on the machine in the first place. I used "sneaker net" > > > to copy it to this one via a CD (as I mentioned, the 7.0 kernel boots > > > but the Realtek ethernet device is not recognized). > > > > So the problem is that 7.0-RELEASE works fine for you, but after > > upgrading your RELENG_7 source (to what is now 7.1-BETA), the machine > > hangs after printing the mount root message. Is this correct? > > Yes, that is pretty much it. The Realtek ethernet isn't working in in > 7.0-RELEASE either, but I'm guessing that that is a different (and less > serious) problem related to changes in that device. > > > Here's another question: does booting into single-user exhibit the same > > problem as multi-user? > > It looks like when I try a single-user mode (and verbose) boot the only > difference is that the las line shown above (the start_init line) isn't > printed. Otherwise, the hang is the same. > > > > > 4) The Realtek NIC on that motherboard is probably too new to be > > > > supported under RELENG_7. Realtek has a history of releasing different > > > > sub-revisions of the same NIC/PHY, and the internal changes are severe > > > > enough to cause the NIC to not work correctly (under any OS) without > > > > full driver support for that specific sub-revision. > > > > > > That's what I suspected. The values displayed when doing a "pciconf -lv" > > > are similar as for this system I'm using to type this, but now that > > > I look closer and make a direct comparison, the failing device has a > > > rev=0x02 vs. rev=0x01 for the working one. The pciconf -lv output for > > > the failing mb is: > > > > > > none3@pci0:2:0:0: class=0x020000 card=0xe0001458 chip=0x816810ec rev=0x02 hdr=0x00 > > > vendor = 'Realtek Semiconductor' > > > device = 'RTL8168/8111 PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet NIC' > > > class = network > > > subclass = ethernet > > > > Regarding the Realtek issue: I've CC'd PYUN Yong-Hyeon (surname in > > caps), who maintains the re(4) driver for FreeBSD. He might have a > > patch available for you to try, or help determine how to get this NIC > > working on FreeBSD. He'll probably need more than just pciconf -lv > > output, but should be able to work with you. > > Ok, that'd be great. I must say that I'm close to simply returning this > MB and going with something not quite so new that is more likely to > work. I was hoping to get this system up and running this weekend. :( I wish I knew what was causing the lock-up for you. I'm truly baffled, especially given that the system is able to boot + find the kernel + load kernel modules. Debugging this problem is out of field; jhb@ might have some ideas, as I'm not sure what magic happens immediately before the root filesystem is mounted. Those debugging/helping may want "disklabel -r -A ad4s1" output. At least you can boot 7.0-RELEASE to get that information. Regarding hardware: I myself purchased an Asus P5Q SE board, with an Intel Q9550 CPU earlier this week. The board was affordable (barely US$100). One of the reasons I went with this board is because it lacks a) Realtek NICs, b) Broadcom NICs, c) JMicron SATA controllers, and d) Silicon Image SATA controllers. All of those are devices I stay away from. The Atheros/Attansic L1E NIC is known to have issues under Vista (not sure if the issues are with Vista or the actual driver itself), but I use XP). FreeBSD supports this NIC under the age(4) driver, also maintained by Yong-Hyeon. Of course I haven't tested it yet. I'll be building the above system today, and will post the results of booting/installing FreeBSD on it as a test case. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 16:11:54 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AB0E1065681; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 16:11:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Received: from woozle.rinet.ru (woozle.rinet.ru [195.54.192.68]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C17708FC13; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 16:11:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by woozle.rinet.ru (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8KGBpuL007792; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 20:11:51 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 20:11:51 +0400 (MSD) From: Dmitry Morozovsky To: Jeremy Chadwick In-Reply-To: <20080917162342.GA95431@icarus.home.lan> Message-ID: References: <20080917162342.GA95431@icarus.home.lan> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) X-NCC-RegID: ru.rinet X-OpenPGP-Key-ID: 6B691B03 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (woozle.rinet.ru [0.0.0.0]); Sat, 20 Sep 2008 20:11:51 +0400 (MSD) Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Supermicro PDSMI failed to boot on fresh RELENG_7/amd64 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 16:11:54 -0000 On Wed, 17 Sep 2008, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: JC> > 3 of 4 times this machine failed to boot, panicing somewhere in late kernel JC> > initialization phase (before /sbin/init is executed) JC> > JC> > {snip} JC> JC> We have many (specifically, 6) PDSMI+ (not PDSMI) boxes which do not JC> exhibit this problem. Next followup: RELENG_7/i386 is working well, only amd64 exhibits problems. Sincerely, D.Marck [DM5020, MCK-RIPE, DM3-RIPN] [ FreeBSD committer: marck@FreeBSD.org ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** Dmitry Morozovsky --- D.Marck --- Wild Woozle --- marck@rinet.ru *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 18:02:01 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0FB61065673; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 18:02:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7209A8FC0C; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 18:02:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from flosoft.no-ip.biz (ool-435559b8.dyn.optonline.net [67.85.89.184]) by mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTP id <0K7I00HBW8PC1P40@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:32:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from flosoft.no-ip.biz (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flosoft.no-ip.biz (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id m8KHV11b002874; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:31:02 -0400 Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:31:01 -0400 From: "Aryeh M. Friedman" In-reply-to: To: Dmitry Morozovsky Message-id: <48D53355.2080905@gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20080917162342.GA95431@icarus.home.lan> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (X11/20080918) Cc: Jeremy Chadwick , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Supermicro PDSMI failed to boot on fresh RELENG_7/amd64 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 18:02:01 -0000 Dmitry Morozovsky wrote: > On Wed, 17 Sep 2008, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > > JC> > 3 of 4 times this machine failed to boot, panicing somewhere in late kernel > JC> > initialization phase (before /sbin/init is executed) > JC> > > JC> > {snip} > JC> > JC> We have many (specifically, 6) PDSMI+ (not PDSMI) boxes which do not > JC> exhibit this problem. > > Next followup: RELENG_7/i386 is working well, only amd64 exhibits problems. > I am not sure if this was fixed since last week but i386 also showed the same issues on -current > > Sincerely, > D.Marck [DM5020, MCK-RIPE, DM3-RIPN] > [ FreeBSD committer: marck@FreeBSD.org ] > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *** Dmitry Morozovsky --- D.Marck --- Wild Woozle --- marck@rinet.ru *** > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 18:50:32 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 612871065682; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 18:50:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@immure.com) Received: from maul.immure.com (adsl-66-136-206-1.dsl.austtx.swbell.net [66.136.206.1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AD188FC24; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 18:50:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@immure.com) Received: from rancor.immure.com (rancor.immure.com [10.1.132.9]) by maul.immure.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8KIoO4X017072; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:50:24 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob@immure.com) Received: from rancor.immure.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rancor.immure.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8KIoOij016619; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:50:24 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob@rancor.immure.com) Received: (from bob@localhost) by rancor.immure.com (8.14.2/8.13.8/Submit) id m8KIoOdh016618; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:50:24 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:50:24 -0500 From: Bob Willcox To: Jeremy Chadwick Message-ID: <20080920185024.GC15275@rancor.immure.com> References: <20080920042418.GB1322@rancor.immure.com> <20080920123914.GA72833@icarus.home.lan> <20080920132429.GA15275@rancor.immure.com> <20080920140456.GA74663@icarus.home.lan> <20080920144510.GB15275@rancor.immure.com> <20080920150533.GA75785@icarus.home.lan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080920150533.GA75785@icarus.home.lan> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-immure-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner-ID: m8KIoO4X017072 X-immure-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-immure-MailScanner-From: bob@immure.com X-Spam-Status: No Cc: PYUN Yong-Hyeon , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RELENG_7 hangs on boot w/Gigabyte MA78GM-S2H MB X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Bob Willcox List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 18:50:32 -0000 On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 08:05:33AM -0700, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 09:45:10AM -0500, Bob Willcox wrote: > > On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 07:04:56AM -0700, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > > > On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 08:24:29AM -0500, Bob Willcox wrote: > > > > > 1) It would be helpful to know if you installed i386 or amd64 FreeBSD, > > > > > > > > This is amd64 on this particular machine. > > > > > > > > > 2) With regards to the lock-up after "mount root", if you press NumLock > > > > > or CapsLock, do the keyboard LEDs turn on/off? > > > > > > > > Nope, no keys do anything. You must either push reset or pull the plug. > > > > > > Is it possible to get the output when booting in verbose mode? If not, > > > what are the last few lines before the machine locks up when booting > > > verbosely? > > > > Yep, just did that. The last things printed right before hang are: > > > > ioapic0: Assigning ISA IRQ 1 to local APIC 0 > > ioapic0: Assigning ISA IRQ 4 to local APIC 1 > > ioapic0: Assigning ISA IRQ 6 to local APIC 2 > > ioapic0: Assigning ISA IRQ 7 to local APIC 0 > > ioapic0: Assigning ISA IRQ 9 to local APIC 1 > > ioapic0: Assigning ISA IRQ 12 to local APIC 2 > > ioapic0: Assigning ISA IRQ 14 to local APIC 0 > > ioapic0: Assigning ISA PCI 16 to local APIC 1 > > ioapic0: Assigning ISA PCI 17 to local APIC 2 > > ioapic0: Assigning ISA PCI 18 to local APIC 0 > > ioapic0: Assigning ISA PCI 19 to local APIC 1 > > ioapic0: Assigning ISA PCI 22 to local APIC 2 > > trying to mount root from ufs:/dev/ad4s1a > > start_init: trying /sbin/init > > [hung at this point] > > > > > > > 3) Many others have seen the hanging/lock-up after "mount root". I > > > > > believe one found a workaround by setting ATA_STATIC_ID in their kernel > > > > > configuration. I realise this is a problem when you can't get the > > > > > system up to a point of building a kernel; chicken-and-egg problem, > > > > > > > > Well, I can build a kernel if I run the 7.0-release kernel. That's how I > > > > got to 7-stable on the machine in the first place. I used "sneaker net" > > > > to copy it to this one via a CD (as I mentioned, the 7.0 kernel boots > > > > but the Realtek ethernet device is not recognized). > > > > > > So the problem is that 7.0-RELEASE works fine for you, but after > > > upgrading your RELENG_7 source (to what is now 7.1-BETA), the machine > > > hangs after printing the mount root message. Is this correct? > > > > Yes, that is pretty much it. The Realtek ethernet isn't working in in > > 7.0-RELEASE either, but I'm guessing that that is a different (and less > > serious) problem related to changes in that device. > > > > > Here's another question: does booting into single-user exhibit the same > > > problem as multi-user? > > > > It looks like when I try a single-user mode (and verbose) boot the only > > difference is that the las line shown above (the start_init line) isn't > > printed. Otherwise, the hang is the same. > > > > > > > 4) The Realtek NIC on that motherboard is probably too new to be > > > > > supported under RELENG_7. Realtek has a history of releasing different > > > > > sub-revisions of the same NIC/PHY, and the internal changes are severe > > > > > enough to cause the NIC to not work correctly (under any OS) without > > > > > full driver support for that specific sub-revision. > > > > > > > > That's what I suspected. The values displayed when doing a "pciconf -lv" > > > > are similar as for this system I'm using to type this, but now that > > > > I look closer and make a direct comparison, the failing device has a > > > > rev=0x02 vs. rev=0x01 for the working one. The pciconf -lv output for > > > > the failing mb is: > > > > > > > > none3@pci0:2:0:0: class=0x020000 card=0xe0001458 chip=0x816810ec rev=0x02 hdr=0x00 > > > > vendor = 'Realtek Semiconductor' > > > > device = 'RTL8168/8111 PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet NIC' > > > > class = network > > > > subclass = ethernet > > > > > > Regarding the Realtek issue: I've CC'd PYUN Yong-Hyeon (surname in > > > caps), who maintains the re(4) driver for FreeBSD. He might have a > > > patch available for you to try, or help determine how to get this NIC > > > working on FreeBSD. He'll probably need more than just pciconf -lv > > > output, but should be able to work with you. > > > > Ok, that'd be great. I must say that I'm close to simply returning this > > MB and going with something not quite so new that is more likely to > > work. I was hoping to get this system up and running this weekend. :( > > I wish I knew what was causing the lock-up for you. I'm truly baffled, > especially given that the system is able to boot + find the kernel + > load kernel modules. Debugging this problem is out of field; jhb@ might > have some ideas, as I'm not sure what magic happens immediately before > the root filesystem is mounted. > > Those debugging/helping may want "disklabel -r -A ad4s1" output. At > least you can boot 7.0-RELEASE to get that information. > > Regarding hardware: > > I myself purchased an Asus P5Q SE board, with an Intel Q9550 CPU earlier > this week. The board was affordable (barely US$100). One of the > reasons I went with this board is because it lacks a) Realtek NICs, b) > Broadcom NICs, c) JMicron SATA controllers, and d) Silicon Image SATA > controllers. All of those are devices I stay away from. > > The Atheros/Attansic L1E NIC is known to have issues under Vista (not > sure if the issues are with Vista or the actual driver itself), but I > use XP). FreeBSD supports this NIC under the age(4) driver, also > maintained by Yong-Hyeon. Of course I haven't tested it yet. > > I'll be building the above system today, and will post the results of > booting/installing FreeBSD on it as a test case. Well, I swapped motherboards to a slightly older but similar board with pretty much identical results. This one's a Gigabyte GA-MA74GM-S2. I was trying to stick with a MB that has onboard graphics (this is in a 2u rack case and I don't have a riser card for it so there's no way to install a video card currently). With this board it doesn't get quite as far even. It prints out all the APIC messages as above then a GEOM message: GEOM: new disk ad4 And then hangs. Also, the ethernet NIC on this board is the same as the previous one so it's not found either. Bob > > -- > | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | > | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | > | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | > | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | -- Bob Willcox All the evidence concerning the universe bob@immure.com has not yet been collected, so there's still hope. Austin, TX From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 18:55:30 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A38F1065673; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 18:55:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Received: from woozle.rinet.ru (woozle.rinet.ru [195.54.192.68]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 092698FC12; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 18:55:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by woozle.rinet.ru (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m8KItNwh013399; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 22:55:23 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 22:55:23 +0400 (MSD) From: Dmitry Morozovsky To: Jeremy Chadwick In-Reply-To: <20080920150533.GA75785@icarus.home.lan> Message-ID: References: <20080920042418.GB1322@rancor.immure.com> <20080920123914.GA72833@icarus.home.lan> <20080920132429.GA15275@rancor.immure.com> <20080920140456.GA74663@icarus.home.lan> <20080920144510.GB15275@rancor.immure.com> <20080920150533.GA75785@icarus.home.lan> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) X-NCC-RegID: ru.rinet X-OpenPGP-Key-ID: 6B691B03 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (woozle.rinet.ru [0.0.0.0]); Sat, 20 Sep 2008 22:55:23 +0400 (MSD) Cc: PYUN Yong-Hyeon , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: RELENG_7 hangs on boot w/Gigabyte MA78GM-S2H MB X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 18:55:30 -0000 On Sat, 20 Sep 2008, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: [snip all] JC> I myself purchased an Asus P5Q SE board, with an Intel Q9550 CPU earlier JC> this week. The board was affordable (barely US$100). One of the JC> reasons I went with this board is because it lacks a) Realtek NICs, b) JC> Broadcom NICs, c) JMicron SATA controllers, and d) Silicon Image SATA JC> controllers. All of those are devices I stay away from. Hmm, side question: why do you hate bge(4)? We have a bunch of gigabit routers/natters with bge, and they perform reasonably well (mostly ASUS M2N-LR mobo)... Sincerely, D.Marck [DM5020, MCK-RIPE, DM3-RIPN] [ FreeBSD committer: marck@FreeBSD.org ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** Dmitry Morozovsky --- D.Marck --- Wild Woozle --- marck@rinet.ru *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 19:04:52 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 721D8106566B; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 19:04:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gpalmer@freebsd.org) Received: from noop.in-addr.com (mail.in-addr.com [IPv6:2001:470:8:162::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 407468FC16; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 19:04:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gpalmer@freebsd.org) Received: from gjp by noop.in-addr.com with local (Exim 4.54 (FreeBSD)) id 1Kh7lD-00030V-08; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 15:04:51 -0400 Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 15:04:50 -0400 From: Gary Palmer To: Robert Watson Message-ID: <20080920190450.GB60230@in-addr.com> References: <0C2C7E9B-61E3-4720-B76F-4745A3C963DA@netconsonance.com> <658B8861-1E78-4767-8D3D-8B79CC0BD45F@netconsonance.com> <15F15FD1-3C53-4018-8792-BC63289DC4C2@netconsonance.com> <448wtpcikb.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> <34C3D54B-C88C-4C36-B1FE-C07FC27F8CB5@netconsonance.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Cc: Jo Rhett , freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 19:04:52 -0000 On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 11:37:25AM +0100, Robert Watson wrote: > You already identified the end goal: extend support lifetimes. You placed > constraint on how that could be accomplished: you were going to do the > work. Actually Robert, to be fair to Jo, I suspect it is more proper to say "$COMPANY wants extended support lifetimes. What can I, or $COMPANY, do to help make that happen?". I think its been misinterpreted as Jo saying "Let me do the work". He has offered to see if his company will let him help on company time, but I do not believe the constraint is quite as you phrased it above. The goal is the same, but throw it open to a wider contraint set - what resources does the project need to make it happen? Money? Test labs? Server hosting? Twinkies? Rgeards, Gary From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 20:51:37 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 811F2106567F for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 20:51:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dudu@dudu.ro) Received: from fk-out-0910.google.com (fk-out-0910.google.com [209.85.128.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 207618FC16 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 20:51:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dudu@dudu.ro) Received: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id k31so943783fkk.11 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:51:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.103.242.7 with SMTP id u7mr1324438mur.125.1221942676378; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:31:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.103.229.14 with HTTP; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:31:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 23:31:16 +0300 From: "Vlad GALU" To: "FreeBSD Stable List" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: BPF plans for 7.1 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 20:51:37 -0000 Hi, Will the zero-copy bpf(4) changes be merged to the stable branch before the release? Thanks, Vlad -- ~/.signature: no such file or directory From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 21:01:46 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3197F106564A for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 21:01:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from simon@nitro.dk) Received: from mx.nitro.dk (zarniwoop.nitro.dk [83.92.207.38]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82C238FC18 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 21:01:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from simon@nitro.dk) Received: from arthur.nitro.dk (arthur.bofh [192.168.2.3]) by mx.nitro.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 323271E8C0D; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 20:56:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by arthur.nitro.dk (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 289285E15; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 22:56:46 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 22:56:46 +0200 From: "Simon L. Nielsen" To: Jo Rhett Message-ID: <20080920205645.GI1151@arthur.nitro.dk> References: <15F15FD1-3C53-4018-8792-BC63289DC4C2@netconsonance.com> <448wtpcikb.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> <34C3D54B-C88C-4C36-B1FE-C07FC27F8CB5@netconsonance.com> <20080920020703.GA82392@phat.za.net> <851F09A2-788D-4343-9E00-A0AB5C3AC063@netconsonance.com> <4d7dd86f0809192057s33dfd92fv598488a4c05ada14@mail.gmail.com> <4B2A556D-B13D-4B71-819A-F9B23C5685AF@netconsonance.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4B2A556D-B13D-4B71-819A-F9B23C5685AF@netconsonance.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Upcoming Releases Schedule... X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 21:01:46 -0000 On 2008.09.19 21:30:11 -0700, Jo Rhett wrote: > On Sep 19, 2008, at 8:57 PM, David N wrote: > > How long are you expecting support for a RELENG to last, 1, 2, 3 > > years? 5 years? (comparison, Ubuntu LTS is 3 years, security updates) > > 2 years for each supported branch would be excellent, although I'm > open to alternatives. Right now 6.4 will EoL before 6.3 will :-( Eh, where did you get that information? AFAIK the EoL date of 6.4 has not yet been decided (and I should know though of course I could have missed it). The EoL date is normally decided right around the release time. In the past it was done post-release but lately it has been done before the release to include info in the release announcement. If, when we get closer to the actual release, still is the plan for 6.4 to be the last RELENG_6 release I'm almost certain 6.4 will be a Extended Support release. On 2008.09.19 22:43:56 -0700, Jo Rhett wrote: > On Sep 19, 2008, at 9:41 PM, Gary Palmer wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 07:38:32PM -0700, Jo Rhett wrote: > >> Without input from the current release team extending the support > >> schedule is not possible. > > > > Inquiry - is release team the constraint? > > I don't know. I asked why not, and was told the release team said > this was all they could do with the resources they have. No further > information has been provided. Initially, the description is from my "world view". It's entirely possible I miss some parts, have forgotten, or remember incorrectly. OK, before being able to say what is required for support, we need to define "support". Currently the entities which has a defined support for releases is the FreeBSD Security Team (secteam) which supports the base system for RELENG_* as defined out the security website [1], and the FreeBSD Ports Management Team which has defined "support" for the FreeBSD Ports Collection. The security team will, for the defined periods, do it's utmost to make sure security issues identifies in the supported branches are fixed. When it has been published how long a release is supported, that period may at times be extended, but it's never shortened. It should be mentioned in this regard that after a release is out the door and hasn't blown up requiring a point release to fix it (think 4.6.2 / 5.2.1) the security team owns the release branch, so to speak. The Ports Collection has a slightly more vague definition of what is "supported" [2], but it is still documented. Ports normally "support" the releases secteam does, but they could support less if they want to. For the Ports Collection there is also two parts to that "support" (and that's the reason I write "support" with quotes). One part is the ports infrastructure (bsd.ports.mk and more) which portmgr and others do a lot to make sure works on the supported releasess. The other part is the ~19000 individual ports. The individual ports, to a degree, supports what the maintainer of that port has an interest in supporting. While there are of course rules and guidelines for what a port must support, if a maintainer doesn't want to spend time supporting it there aren't that much anyone else can do about it (if somebody else cares enough they can submit patches, but e.g. for X000 broken ports that's a lot of work). The Release Engineering team implicitly (as in that I don't think they ever defined this per policy but it's what effectively being done) support whatever secteam supports, wrt. for Errata Notices. As the security team "own" the release branches (RELENG_X_Y) secteam is also involved at least partly in each Errata Notice which goes out. Now, to define what the above support requires. For the ports collection (if we ignore the part with individual ports maintainers) requires quite a lot of time per release to support (especially for older releases), as all infrastructure changes has to be tested on all supported versions, and for each supported release and architecture there need to be hardware to build packages. I'm not going to go more into this as I'm not involved with this so I don't know the details on than that it's non-trivial both wrt. time and hardware. For what secteam support of the base system costs, it's mainly time for the members of the security team which is the cost. The more branches, the more time is required. This is not a linear cost and has multiple parts to it: - The more branches are supported, the more likely it is we need to deal with a security issue for third party software. Both because software is added/removed in newer branches so we might only support a given program in old branches (e.g. GNU tar, GNU gzip, GNU cpio and more hare not in newer FreeBSD versions). It's also possible that an older release will have a vulnerable version, but newer FreeBSD versions are not vulnerable due to newer version of the third party software. It also happens that an FreeBSD specific issue has silently / unknowingly to the security impact been fixed in newer FreeBSD versions, but that is very rare. - The more branches are supported, the more versions of both third party code and FreeBSD code need to be supported and the more likely it is that the software differs meaning that we need to adopt the fix to the branch. The real painful case for this was FreeBSD-SA-07:01.jail which AFAIR needed 6 different patches. This is one of the largest time cost with support many branches as this is by no means a linear cost. The older a branch is, the more likely it is that the code is much different than newer FreeBSD versions. This also the reason secteam was very happy when we could discontinue FreeBSD 4 support as it was significantly different from FreeBSD 5+. In that respect supporting FreeBSD 5 in the end was much cheaper than supporting FreeBSD 4 in the end. Of course this is less likely to be a problem in the future like it was with FreeBSD 4, but still - FreeBSD 5 and FreeBSD 8 are rather different and would not be fun to support both. - Even if we don't need different patches for older releases we still need to look at them for each advisory and potentially do separate testing for each release. - For some issues which are e.g. in the platform (as in i386, amd64, sparc64 etc.) dependent FreeBSD code or otherwise platform dependent code the complexity and time is a multiple of numbers of supported platforms and supported branches. There aren't many issues of this type but they could happen. - The actual advisory handling takes longer time the more releases is involved as the advisory need to contain info per release and patches need to be applied per branch both to the subversion tree and freebsd-update. This is not a big part, but it still takes time when you have 8 supported branches like we did at one point. There is also a cost in hardware for supported branches though this is less of an issue. Hardware is needed for testing / developing patches and for freebsd-update builds. Since we now have VMware and qemu hardware for reference systems are a smaller problem now. The time freebsd-update builds takes is an issue, but not a big one as we could "just" get more hardware if needed. The more releases are supported, the more disk-space is also needed for freebsd-update mirrors. Again, far from an unsolvable problem by any means, but also a factor - included for (slightly more) completeness. This is the "costs" I could come up with now - I'm sure there are more which I have forgotten. While I'm not going more into the general discussion of how long to support branches, I will note that as rwatson has said - adding more people to secteam is not as simple as it sounds (though we are in the process of expanding right now). Other is the thread have mentioned external people could support the older branches. This is partially correct, but only if the support is distributed externally as well. Even after a branch is not supported anymore the FreeBSD Security Team holds a lock on the branch and only in special cases allow commits to those branches. The reason for this is that some people might still just pull the latest version for RELENG_X_Y for whatever reason and they should not "suddenly" get less verified code. Newer patches also wouldn't make it to freebsd-update as that is managed by secteam. We have had one case where a committer was interested in supporting an older release and back-ported patches from security advisories for a while. The patches for the older releases were then reviewed in each case by the security team before commit, but that only lasted for a while and was a couple of years ago AFAIR. In theory this could happen again if the Security Officer at the time is OK with it - I haven't talked with Colin about this in a while, so I can't recall is position. There would still need to be committer which is the interface to secteam and do the commits. Most issues (though of course not all) which gets advisories are not public at the time of the advisory, so a fix to older branches would be likely be delayed some compared to initial disclosure. I hope this makes it a bit clearer what the cost of supporting old releases is (and even then I haven't gone much into the important part of also having ports support). [1] http://security.FreeBSD.org/ [2] http://www.freebsd.org/ports/ PS. I hope there aren't too many spelling and grammar errors in this mail, but just reading it over one time was more than enough :-). -- Simon L. Nielsen Hat: FreeBSD Deputy Security Officer From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 21:43:34 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9844C1065675 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 21:43:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from QMTA07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.64]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B8528FC15 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 21:43:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from OMTA02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.19]) by QMTA07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id H4q51a0070QkzPwA79jaXK; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 21:43:34 +0000 Received: from koitsu.dyndns.org ([67.180.253.227]) by OMTA02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id H9jY1a0014v8bD78N9jYTf; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 21:43:33 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=CnICaSuMnq8A:10 a=mETQX8f6ImQA:10 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=QycZ5dHgAAAA:8 a=6zRSO77l6o0OvV7EX38A:9 a=yJH9uPH3MMAm5bFOO3wBYBXTT1cA:4 a=EoioJ0NPDVgA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 Received: by icarus.home.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 0DF9C17B81A; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:43:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:43:31 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Dmitry Morozovsky Message-ID: <20080920214331.GA83089@icarus.home.lan> References: <20080917162342.GA95431@icarus.home.lan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Supermicro PDSMI failed to boot on fresh RELENG_7/amd64 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 21:43:34 -0000 On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 08:11:51PM +0400, Dmitry Morozovsky wrote: > On Wed, 17 Sep 2008, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > > JC> > 3 of 4 times this machine failed to boot, panicing somewhere in late kernel > JC> > initialization phase (before /sbin/init is executed) > JC> > > JC> > {snip} > JC> > JC> We have many (specifically, 6) PDSMI+ (not PDSMI) boxes which do not > JC> exhibit this problem. > > Next followup: RELENG_7/i386 is working well, only amd64 exhibits problems. Interesting. There's another recent post about this problem, also using amd64. http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2008-September/045170.html -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 21:51:16 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71ABD1065B61 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 21:51:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37F618FC21 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 21:51:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: from dan.emsphone.com (smmsp@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dan.emsphone.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id m8KLpDal035910 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 16:51:14 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id m8KLpCXP035909; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 16:51:12 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 16:51:12 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: Michel Talon , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20080920215111.GI34468@dan.emsphone.com> References: <20080920143952.GA16747@lpthe.jussieu.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080920143952.GA16747@lpthe.jussieu.fr> X-OS: FreeBSD 7.1-PRERELEASE User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: Subject: Re: Problem with dtrace X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 21:51:16 -0000 In the last episode (Sep 20), Michel Talon said: > Still testing FreeBSD-7.1-beta encountered the following (perhaps > to be expected) result with dtrace: > > dtrace -m kernel -> some output -> deadlock after a few seconds. > > Less demanding tracing worked OK. proc, profile, and syscall probes work fine for me; it seems to be just fbt probes that cause problems. Enabling any one will cause a trap 12 a few instructions inside the probed function when it gets called. -- Dan Nelson dnelson@allantgroup.com From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 22:32:51 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E76D1065670 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 22:32:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ozbilgin@hotmail.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s37.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s37.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.109]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 847F08FC1B for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 22:32:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ozbilgin@hotmail.com) Received: from BAY138-W25 ([64.4.49.60]) by bay0-omc1-s37.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 20 Sep 2008 15:20:52 -0700 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [88.230.246.57] From: =?windows-1254?Q?yusuf_=F6zbilgin?= To: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 01:20:51 +0300 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Sep 2008 22:20:52.0048 (UTC) FILETIME=[24434D00:01C91B6F] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1254" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Freebsd custom installation cd X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 22:32:51 -0000 Hello, I created custom freebsd installation cd with custom kernel. When I boot system with custom cd; kernel detects Intel ICH9 sata300 controller but end of the bootingit doesnt detect my sata disk. Mainboard is intel and chipset is i965. There is no problem when I use this custom cd with gigabyte p35 chipset mainboard with same sata disk When I use the freebsd live cd it detects atapci0 Marvell 88SX6101 and atapci1 Intel Ahci Controller then it detects disk without problem. My kernel conf file is below. Where can be the problem? Thanks. cpu I486_CPUcpu I586_CPUcpu I686_CPUident FREEBSD-CDBOOT# To statically compile in device wiring instead of /boot/device.hints#hints "GENERIC.hints" # Default places to look for devices.#makeoptions DEBUG=-g # Build kernel with gdb(1) debug symbolsoptions SCHED_4BSD # 4BSD scheduleroptions PREEMPTION # Enable kernel thread preemptionoptions INET # InterNETworking#options INET6 # IPv6 communications protocols#options SCTP # Stream Control Transmission Protocoloptions FFS # Berkeley Fast Filesystemoptions SOFTUPDATES # Enable FFS soft updates supportoptions UFS_ACL # Support for access control listsoptions UFS_DIRHASH # Improve performance on big directories#options UFS_GJOURNAL # Enable gjournal-based UFS journalingoptions MD_ROOT # MD is a potential root deviceoptions MD_ROOT_SIZE=30000options NFSCLIENT # Network Filesystem Client#options NFSSERVER # Network Filesystem Serveroptions NFS_ROOT # NFS usable as /, requires NFSCLIENToptions MSDOSFS # MSDOS Filesystemoptions CD9660 # ISO 9660 Filesystemoptions PROCFS # Process filesystem (requires PSEUDOFS)options PSEUDOFS # Pseudo-filesystem frameworkoptions GEOM_PART_GPT # GUID Partition Tables.options GEOM_LABEL # Provides labelizationoptions COMPAT_43TTY # BSD 4.3 TTY compat [KEEP THIS!]options COMPAT_FREEBSD4 # Compatible with FreeBSD4options COMPAT_FREEBSD5 # Compatible with FreeBSD5options COMPAT_FREE BSD6 # Compatible with FreeBSD6options SCSI_DELAY=5000 # Delay (in ms) before probing SCSIoptions KTRACE # ktrace(1) supportoptions SYSVSHM # SYSV-style shared memoryoptions SYSVMSG # SYSV-style message queuesoptions SYSVSEM # SYSV-style semaphoresoptions _KPOSIX_PRIORITY_SCHEDULING # POSIX P1003_1B real-time extensionsoptions KBD_INSTALL_CDEV # install a CDEV entry in /devoptions ADAPTIVE_GIANT # Giant mutex is adaptive.options STOP_NMI # Stop CPUS using NMI instead of IPI#options AUDIT # Security event auditing#options QUOTA#options IPFIREWALL#options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE#options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE_LIMIT=5#options IPFIREWALL_FORWARD#options IPFIREWALL_NAT#options IPDIVERT#options DUMMYNET#options IP STEALTH#options NETGRAPHoptions NETGRAPH_BPFoptions NETGRAPH_BRIDGEoptions NETGRAPH_DEVICEoptions NETGRAPH_ECHOoptions NETGRAPH_ETHERoptions NETGRAPH_GIFoptions NETGRAPH_GIF_DEMUXoptions NETGRAPH_HOLEoptions NETGRAPH_TAGoptions NETGRAPH_IFACEoptions NETGRAPH_IP_INPUToptions NETGRAPH_IPFWoptions NETGRAPH_KSOCKEToptions NETGRAPH_NAT#options IPFIREWALL_DEFAULT_TO_ACCEPT#options LIBALIASoptions NETGRAPH_NETFLOWoptions NETGRAPH_PPPoptions NETGRAPH_SOCKEToptions NETGRAPH_SPLIToptions NETGRAPH_TCPMSSoptions NETGRAPH_TEEoptions NETGRAPH_TTYoptions NETGRAPH_UI#options HZ=1000#options IPSEC#options IPSEC_FILTERTUNNEL#device crypto# To make an SMP kernel, the next two lines are needed#options SMP # Symmetric MultiProcessor Kerneldevice apic # I/O APIC# CPU frequency control#device cpufreq# Bus support.device eisadevice pci# Floppy drivesdevice fdc# ATA and ATAPI devicesdevice atadevice atadisk # ATA disk drivesdevice ataraid # ATA RAID drivesdevice atapicd # ATAPI CDROM drives#device atapifd # ATAPI floppy drives#device atapist # ATAPI tape drivesoptions ATA_STATIC_ID # Static device numbering# SCSI Controllersdevice ahb # EISA AHA1742 familydevice ahc # AHA2940 and onboard AIC7xxx devicesoptions AHC_REG_PRETTY_PRINT # Print register bitfields in debugdevice ahd # AHA39320/29320 and onboard AIC79xx devicesoptions AHD_REG_PRETTY_PRINT # Print register bitfields in debug # output. Adds ~215k to driver.device amd # AMD 53C974 (Tekram DC-390(T))device hptiop # Highpoint RocketRaid 3xxx seriesdevice isp # Qlogic family#device ispfw # Firmware for QLogic HBAs- normally a moduledevice mpt # LSI-Logic MPT-Fusion#device ncr # NCR/Symbios Logicdevice sym # NCR/Symbios Logic (newer chipsets + those of `ncr')device trm # Tekram DC395U/UW/F DC315U adaptersdevice adv # Advansys SCSI adaptersdevice adw # Advansys wide SCSI adaptersdevice aha # Adaptec 154x SCSI adaptersdevice aic # Adaptec 15[012]x SCSI adapters, AIC-6[23]60.device bt # Buslogic/Mylex MultiMaster SCSI adaptersdevice ncv # NCR 53C500device nsp # Workbit Ninja SCSI-3device stg # TMC 18C30/18C50# SCSI peripheralsdevic e scbus # SCSI bus (required for SCSI)device ch # SCSI media changersdevice da # Direct Access (disks)device sa # Sequential Access (tape etc)device cd # CDdevice pass # Passthrough device (direct SCSI access)device ses # SCSI Environmental Services (and SAF-TE)# RAID controllers interfaced to the SCSI subsystem#device amr # AMI MegaRAID#device arcmsr # Areca SATA II RAID#device asr # DPT SmartRAID V, VI and Adaptec SCSI RAIDdevice ciss # Compaq Smart RAID 5*device dpt # DPT Smartcache III, IV - See NOTES for optionsdevice hptmv # Highpoint RocketRAID 182xdevice hptrr # Highpoint RocketRAID 17xx, 22xx, 23xx, 25xxdevice iir # Intel Integrated RAIDdevice ips # IBM (Adaptec) ServeRAIDdevice mly # Mylex AcceleRAID/eXtremeRAIDdevice twa # 3ware 9000 series PATA/SATA RAID# RAID controllersdevice aac # Adaptec FSA RAIDdevice aacp # SCSI passthrough for aac (requires CAM)device ida # Compaq Smart RAIDdevice mfi # LSI MegaRAID SASdevice mlx # Mylex DAC960 familydevice pst # Promise Supertrak SX6000device twe # 3ware ATA RAID# atkbdc0 controls both the keyboard and the PS/2 mousedevice atkbdc # AT keyboard controllerdevice atkbd # AT keyboarddevice psm # PS/2 mousedevice kbdmux # keyboard multiplexerdevice vga # VGA video card driverdevice splash # Splash screen and screen saver support# syscons is the default console driver, resembling an SCO consoledevice scdevice agp # support several AGP chipsets# Power management support (see NOTES for more options)#device apm# Add suspend/resume support for the i8254.device pmtimer# PCCARD (PCMCIA) support# PCMCIA and cardbus bridge support#device cbb # cardbus (yenta) bridge#device pccard # PC Card (16-bit) bus#device cardbus # CardBus (32-bit) bus# Serial (COM) portsdevice sio # 8250, 16[45]50 based serial portsdevice uart # Generic UART driver# Parallel port#device ppc#device ppbus # Parallel port bus (required)#device lpt # Printer#device plip # TCP/IP over parallel#device ppi # Parallel port interface device#device vpo # Requires scbus and da# If you've got a "dumb" serial or parallel PCI card that is# supported by the pu c(4) glue driver, uncomment the following# line to enable it (connects to sio, uart and/or ppc drivers):#device puc# PCI Ethernet NICs.device de # DEC/Intel DC21x4x (``Tulip'')device em # Intel PRO/1000 adapter Gigabit Ethernet Carddevice ixgb # Intel PRO/10GbE Ethernet Carddevice le # AMD Am7900 LANCE and Am79C9xx PCnetdevice txp # 3Com 3cR990 (``Typhoon'')device vx # 3Com 3c590, 3c595 (``Vortex'')# PCI Ethernet NICs that use the common MII bus controller code.# NOTE: Be sure to keep the 'device miibus' line in order to use these NICs!device miibus # MII bus supportdevice bce # Broadcom BCM5706/BCM5708 Gigabit Ethernetdevice bfe # Broadcom BCM440x 10/100 Ethernetdevice bge # Broadcom BCM570xx Gigabit Ethernetdevice dc # DEC/Intel 21143 an d various workalikesdevice fxp # Intel EtherExpress PRO/100B (82557, 82558)device lge # Level 1 LXT1001 gigabit Ethernetdevice msk # Marvell/SysKonnect Yukon II Gigabit Ethernetdevice nfe # nVidia nForce MCP on-board Ethernetdevice nge # NatSemi DP83820 gigabit Ethernet#device nve # nVidia nForce MCP on-board Ethernet Networkingdevice pcn # AMD Am79C97x PCI 10/100 (precedence over 'le')device re # RealTek 8139C+/8169/8169S/8110Sdevice rl # RealTek 8129/8139device sf # Adaptec AIC-6915 (``Starfire'')device sis # Silicon Integrated Systems SiS 900/SiS 7016device sk # SysKonnect SK-984x & SK-982x gigabit Ethernetdevice ste # Sundance ST201 (D-Link DFE-550TX)device stge # Sundance/Tamarac k TC9021 gigabit Ethernetdevice ti # Alteon Networks Tigon I/II gigabit Ethernetdevice tl # Texas Instruments ThunderLANdevice tx # SMC EtherPower II (83c170 ``EPIC'')device vge # VIA VT612x gigabit Ethernetdevice vr # VIA Rhine, Rhine IIdevice wb # Winbond W89C840Fdevice xl # 3Com 3c90x (``Boomerang'', ``Cyclone'')# ISA Ethernet NICs. pccard NICs included.device cs # Crystal Semiconductor CS89x0 NIC# 'device ed' requires 'device miibus'device ed # NE[12]000, SMC Ultra, 3c503, DS8390 cardsdevice ex # Intel EtherExpress Pro/10 and Pro/10+device ep # Etherlink III based cardsdevice fe # Fujitsu MB8696x based cardsdevice ie # EtherExpress 8/16, 3C507, StarLAN 10 etc.device sn # SMC's 9000 series of Ethernet chipsdevice xe # Xircom pccard Ethernet# Wireless NIC cardsdevice wlan # 802.11 supportdevice wlan_wep # 802.11 WEP supportdevice wlan_ccmp # 802.11 CCMP supportdevice wlan_tkip # 802.11 TKIP supportdevice wlan_amrr # AMRR transmit rate control algorithmdevice wlan_scan_ap # 802.11 AP mode scanningdevice wlan_scan_sta # 802.11 STA mode scanningdevice an # Aironet 4500/4800 802.11 wireless NICs.device ath # Atheros pci/cardbus NIC'sdevice ath_hal # Atheros HAL (Hardware Access Layer)device ath_rate_sample # SampleRate tx rate control for athdevice awi # BayStack 660 and othersdevice ral # Ralink Technology RT2500 wireless NICs.device wi # WaveLAN/Intersil/Symbol 802.11 wireless NICs.#devic e wl # Older non 802.11 Wavelan wireless NIC.# Pseudo devices.device loop # Network loopbackdevice random # Entropy devicedevice ether # Ethernet supportdevice sl # Kernel SLIPdevice ppp # Kernel PPPdevice tun # Packet tunnel.device pty # Pseudo-ttys (telnet etc)device md # Memory "disks"device gif # IPv6 and IPv4 tunnelingdevice faith # IPv6-to-IPv4 relaying (translation)device firmware # firmware assist module# The `bpf' device enables the Berkeley Packet Filter.# Be aware of the administrative consequences of enabling this!# Note that 'bpf' is required for DHCP.device bpf # Berkeley packet filter# USB supportdevice uhci # UHCI PCI->USB interfacedevice ohci # OHCI PCI->USB int erfacedevice ehci # EHCI PCI->USB interface (USB 2.0)device usb # USB Bus (required)#device udbp # USB Double Bulk Pipe devicesdevice ugen # Genericdevice uhid # "Human Interface Devices"device ukbd # Keyboard#device ulpt # Printerdevice umass # Disks/Mass storage - Requires scbus and dadevice ums # Mousedevice ural # Ralink Technology RT2500USB wireless NICsdevice rum # Ralink Technology RT2501USB wireless NICs#device urio # Diamond Rio 500 MP3 player#device uscanner # Scanners# USB Ethernet, requires miibus#device aue # ADMtek USB Ethernet#device axe # ASIX Electronics USB Ethernet#device cdce # Generic USB over Ethernet#device cue # CATC USB Eth ernet#device kue # Kawasaki LSI USB Ethernet#device rue # RealTek RTL8150 USB Ethernet# FireWire support#device firewire # FireWire bus code#device sbp # SCSI over FireWire (Requires scbus and da)#device fwe # Ethernet over FireWire (non-standard!)#device fwip # IP over FireWire (RFC 2734,3146)#device dcons # Dumb console driver#device dcons_crom # Configuration ROM for dcons From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 22:53:16 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8BAD1065673 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 22:53:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from QMTA05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.48]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 741118FC1D for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 22:53:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from OMTA11.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.36]) by QMTA05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id H1N81a0060mv7h055AtF9M; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 22:53:15 +0000 Received: from koitsu.dyndns.org ([67.180.253.227]) by OMTA11.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id HAtA1a00Q4v8bD73XAtBa7; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 22:53:11 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=j-pHpBAHbf4A:10 a=QycZ5dHgAAAA:8 a=ograOECuP35WH_FDp38A:9 a=w9Sx1uQR1Sjq_iqxWtrgt0rMFqkA:4 a=EoioJ0NPDVgA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 Received: by icarus.home.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9F98617B81A; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 15:53:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 15:53:14 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: yusuf =?iso-8859-1?Q?=F6zbilgin?= Message-ID: <20080920225314.GA84482@icarus.home.lan> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Freebsd custom installation cd X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 22:53:16 -0000 On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 01:20:51AM +0300, yusuf özbilgin wrote: > Hello, I created custom freebsd installation cd with custom kernel. > When I boot system with custom cd; kernel detects Intel ICH9 sata300 > controller but end of the bootingit doesnt detect my sata disk. When you say "it doesn't detect my SATA disk", what do you mean? Does the system lock up after saying "Mounting root from..."? Please let me know -- it's very important. > Mainboard is intel and chipset is i965. There is no problem when I use > this custom cd with gigabyte p35 chipset mainboard with same sata disk > When I use the freebsd live cd > > it detects atapci0 Marvell 88SX6101 > and atapci1 Intel Ahci Controller > > then it detects disk without problem. > > My kernel conf file is below. No one can read your kernel configuration because what you posted lacks newlines. Additionally, you said you're using a "custom FreeBSD installation CD", which may be part of the problem as well (since you admit the Live CD works fine). -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 20 23:17:17 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC4631065670 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 23:17:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fk@fabiankeil.de) Received: from smtprelay09.ispgateway.de (smtprelay09.ispgateway.de [80.67.29.23]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A4028FC15 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2008 23:17:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fk@fabiankeil.de) Received: from [88.153.0.16] (helo=localhost) by smtprelay09.ispgateway.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1KhBX4-00087O-A3; Sun, 21 Sep 2008 01:06:30 +0200 Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 01:06:24 +0200 From: Fabian Keil To: Steve Bertrand Message-ID: <20080921010624.7c4e5143@fabiankeil.de> In-Reply-To: <48D40EE2.5090900@ibctech.ca> References: <48D40EE2.5090900@ibctech.ca> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.5.0 (GTK+ 2.12.11; i386-portbld-freebsd8.0) X-PGP-KEY-URL: http://www.fabiankeil.de/gpg-keys/fk-2008-08-18.asc Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Sig_/L56MD.v=oCuNqTXjsrO.cnU"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=PGP-SHA1 X-Df-Sender: 180909 Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: GELI encrypted ZFS zpool X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 23:17:17 -0000 --Sig_/L56MD.v=oCuNqTXjsrO.cnU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve Bertrand wrote: > I have an older storage box that I've upgraded to -stable. It currently > uses 7 SCSI disks mashed together with gstripe. >=20 > I've recently replaced this box with a new one running a ZFS setup. I'm > now wanting to turn the old one into a storage device running ZFS, but I > want the entire pool encrypted with GELI. >=20 > I know I can do this, but my requirements are as such: >=20 > - use a key on external media to access the GELI encrypted disks > - not have to type in the passphrase for each physical disk >=20 > ...is this possible? It should be possible if you use keyfiles without password for the vdevs and store those keyfiles on a geli encrypted slice that uses both a keyfile and a passphrase. Fabian --Sig_/L56MD.v=oCuNqTXjsrO.cnU Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkjVgfAACgkQSMVSH78upWMikgCeJ8PchOQdy6Uw4nU6ACGHDe3a 8lwAmgNE1dlHKRakf/mxMQiss3s/2Ysh =Km01 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/L56MD.v=oCuNqTXjsrO.cnU--