From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 27 04:43:46 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 797F41065695 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2009 04:43:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from n-hojpfE1tcoLj-WHmUAKmgsWTO0nEv9Xz1l5GuKE79UFK4lkzM30ucomZ4bg@bounce.linkedin.com) Received: from maila-ab.linkedin.com (maila-ab.linkedin.com [70.42.142.146]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 638618FC20 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2009 04:43:46 +0000 (UTC) DomainKey-Signature: s=prod; d=linkedin.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=Sender:Date:From:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version: Content-Type:X-LinkedIn-fbl; b=ZwNx33ZOIoRUpQ15tK79uzdjZzb/dbjviOk2A9p/wikQ982ADlOSkjt0 eueBgGe+1CMZfI3DqddXRijSHwzafN9eDehsJ962IlgJnB+nE0HYk2GlP 4CYFiUxZDeNcmzs; Sender: messages-noreply@bounce.linkedin.com Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:16:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Siju George To: Message-ID: <70692839.3662827.1256616974349.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn12.prod> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-LinkedIn-fbl: hojpfE1tcoLj-WHmUAKmgsWTO0nEv9Xz1l5GuKE79UFK4lkzM30ucomZ4bg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 04:43:46 -0000 LinkedIn ------------ I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Siju Accept Siju George's invite: https://www.linkedin.com/e/isd/822150554/z6daB0B6/ ------ (c) 2009, LinkedIn Corporation From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 27 19:22:47 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 900551065695 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:22:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions-local@be-well.ilk.org) Received: from mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DE138FC08 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:22:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 28493 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2009 18:54:45 -0000 Received: from dsl092-078-145.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net (HELO be-well.ilk.org) ([66.92.78.145]) (envelope-sender ) by mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 27 Oct 2009 18:54:45 -0000 Received: by be-well.ilk.org (Postfix, from userid 1147) id B4E955089E; Tue, 27 Oct 2009 14:54:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Lowell Gilbert To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <200910271543.39876.gnemmi@gmail.com> <87skd47m54.fsf@kobe.laptop> <200910271647.12382.gnemmi@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 14:54:44 -0400 In-Reply-To: <200910271647.12382.gnemmi@gmail.com> (Gonzalo Nemmi's message of "Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:47:12 -0200") Message-ID: <44k4ygzmyz.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why is sendmail is part of the system and not a package? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:22:47 -0000 Green! No, no, Blue! AAaaaagggghhhh -- Lowell Gilbert, embedded/networking software engineer, Boston area http://be-well.ilk.org/~lowell/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 27 22:07:46 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 457A9106566C for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:07:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from traveling08@cox.net) Received: from fed1rmmtai111.cox.net (fed1rmmtai111.cox.net [68.230.241.49]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 070AE8FC16 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:07:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from fed1rmimpo03.cox.net ([70.169.32.75]) by fed1rmmtao102.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20091027215328.TONF12000.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net>; Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:53:28 -0400 Received: from asus64 ([72.220.91.251]) by fed1rmimpo03.cox.net with bizsmtp id xxtT1c0015RPd3404xtT1y; Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:53:27 -0400 X-VR-Score: -110.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=PQhMOY2zTJoA:10 a=-IkFJk6PAAAA:8 a=EWdjuSYV3hsLK6mPiIkA:9 a=7JV4X4_SwPaVZtohWnEnWk49zTYA:4 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 14:53:21 -0700 From: Robert To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20091027145321.16ea4c99@asus64> In-Reply-To: <44k4ygzmyz.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> References: <200910271543.39876.gnemmi@gmail.com> <87skd47m54.fsf@kobe.laptop> <200910271647.12382.gnemmi@gmail.com> <44k4ygzmyz.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.2 (GTK+ 2.16.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions-local@be-well.ilk.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why is sendmail is part of the system and not a package? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:07:46 -0000 On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 14:54:44 -0400 Lowell Gilbert wrote: > Green! No, no, Blue! AAaaaagggghhhh > I think it should be disque shaped. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 27 23:02:20 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B12A3106568B; Tue, 27 Oct 2009 23:02:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from ezekiel.daleco.biz (southernuniform.com [66.76.92.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EEE08FC1B; Tue, 27 Oct 2009 23:02:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ezekiel.daleco.biz (8.14.3/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n9RMib2p071272; Tue, 27 Oct 2009 18:01:43 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at daleco.biz Received: from ezekiel.daleco.biz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ezekiel.daleco.biz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id p8KYi8dOM7vJ; Tue, 27 Oct 2009 18:00:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from archangel.daleco.biz (ezekiel.daleco.biz [66.76.92.18]) by ezekiel.daleco.biz (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n9RMwK3U071500; Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:58:41 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Message-ID: <4AE77B0C.1020605@daleco.biz> Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:58:20 -0500 From: Kevin Kinsey User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (X11/20090929) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gonzalo Nemmi References: <200910271844.18697.gnemmi@gmail.com> <44fx94zg4x.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> <200910271956.56741.gnemmi@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <200910271956.56741.gnemmi@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Why is sendmail is part of the system and not a package? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 23:02:20 -0000 Gonzalo Nemmi wrote: > On Tuesday 27 October 2009 7:22:22 pm Lowell Gilbert wrote: >> I probably should move this bikeshed to freebsd-chat... I'd like the bikeshed blue, please. Also, since Sendmail has reached maturity, let's baptize it now instead of during infancy, and add a knob FEATURE(require_calvinism). Also, I'm attending the annual meeting of my Sendmail Users Anonymous Group (SMAUG) tomorrow (it's annual because there are SO FEW of us we had to scour the world to find a quorum and it makes economic sense to to meet just once a year), where I'll ask Pope Eric to call up troops to end this holy war on this list once and for all. I'm sharpening blades in the shop even as I write this! DEUS VULT!!!! 'Nuff ... please? Kevin Kinsey From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 27 23:50:39 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 095241065693 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2009 23:50:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions-local@be-well.ilk.org) Received: from mail5.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail5.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.7]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2F3D8FC27 for ; Tue, 27 Oct 2009 23:50:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 11735 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2009 23:50:37 -0000 Received: from dsl092-078-145.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net (HELO be-well.ilk.org) ([66.92.78.145]) (envelope-sender ) by mail5.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 27 Oct 2009 23:50:37 -0000 Received: from lowell-desk.lan (lowell-desk.lan [172.30.250.6]) by be-well.ilk.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 939E650893; Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:50:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by lowell-desk.lan (Postfix, from userid 1147) id D8AE41CCAC; Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:50:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Lowell Gilbert To: Gonzalo Nemmi References: <200910271844.18697.gnemmi@gmail.com> <44fx94zg4x.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> <200910271956.56741.gnemmi@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:50:30 -0400 In-Reply-To: <200910271956.56741.gnemmi@gmail.com> (Gonzalo Nemmi's message of "Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:56:56 -0200") Message-ID: <44aazc8khl.fsf@lowell-desk.lan> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why is sendmail is part of the system and not a package? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 23:50:39 -0000 Gonzalo Nemmi writes: > On Tuesday 27 October 2009 7:22:22 pm Lowell Gilbert wrote: >> I probably should move this bikeshed to freebsd-chat... And now I actually am... >> Gonzalo Nemmi writes: >> > On Tuesday 27 October 2009 6:20:35 pm Frank Shute wrote: >> >> On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 09:24:58PM +0200, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: >> >> I can imagine that a lot of people do use sendmail - it's >> >> documented in the handbook for starters. If it was taken out and >> >> replaced with another MTA then there would be complaints that >> >> sendmail has been taken out or "replacement MTA" is the "wrong >> >> one". >> > >> > Well .. someday UFS will be replaced by ZFS .. >> >> Maybe. That's still quite a way out, and who knows what else will >> come along in the meantime? > > HammerFS? > A heavily armed Oracle lawyers squad team with 9mm. and willing to use > them without a second thught?? > Just a joke =P Seriously, though, something new could come up. Probably with Apple or Google support. >> > .. and one day Perl >> > just dissapeard from base .. yet the worl kept turning, and even >> > better .. no one got hurt ;) >> >> I remember quite a bit of pain. It was worth it, because maintaining >> perl in the base was causing pain on an ongoing basis, but it was a >> problem for users in a number of different ways. > > See what I mean? > It actually paid off for most people .. but do you remember all the > complaining that went on back then? > What makes it any different now? > > And what would you say ... removing perl was more daunting that > replacing Senmail? Honest question. Perl was harder. No question. But it also had clear benefits, and people willing to put in the work to make it happen. I would be just fine with replacing sendmail in the base system with postfix, but there's nobody lining up to do the work the way there was five years ago for removing perl. I would actually be just as happy to see *no* MTA in the base system, but the installer work to keep that from violating the Principle Of Least Astonishment is even more tricky than replacing sendmail with something else. >> > in the other hand, those not complaining, will probably be really >> > happy .. so ... >> >> So you keep saying, but I don't think there's any solid evidence. >> Your experience is one thing, but although I consider myself a >> postfix user, I have machines that run sendmail because it just >> worked for their purpose with no configuration at all. > > Didn't the same thing happen when perl was removed? > Some complaining, some cheering ... Everyone knew why it was necessary. Well, probably not "everyone," but those of us who'd been upgrading machines through several FreeBSD versions knew that perl was breaking regularly. That simply isn't the case with sendmail. For a server, it's a lot harder to configure than (anything else), but that's *completely* different from the active breakage that perl went through with every minor release of perl. >> > Doesn't ZFS mean that you have to reconfigure (or even reinstall) >> > your system? >> >> No. Your old configuration works just fine if you still want to keep >> using it. You won't get the advantages of ZFS, but having it in >> FreeBSD didn't bre > > Oh, sorry Lowell, I mean you had to reconfigure (or even reinstall) if > you want to make use of it :) > Sorry, I should've been more clear about that. Sure. But this isn't the case. You're talking about removing something that people are already using, not adding something that people will have to make major changes to start using in the future. So it does not in any way help your argument. -- Lowell Gilbert, embedded/networking software engineer, Boston area http://be-well.ilk.org/~lowell/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 28 15:27:05 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F05B10656A7 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:27:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [IPv6:2a01:170:102f::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 259E68FC27 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:27:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n9SFQmmX038628; Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:27:03 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id n9SFQlK0038627; Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:26:47 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:26:47 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200910281526.n9SFQlK0038627@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <44aazc8khl.fsf@lowell-desk.lan> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat User-Agent: tin/1.8.3-20070201 ("Scotasay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/6.4-PRERELEASE-20080904 (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:27:03 +0100 (CET) Cc: Subject: Re: Why is sendmail is part of the system and not a package? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:27:05 -0000 Lowell Gilbert wrote: > Gonzalo Nemmi writes: > > On Tuesday 27 October 2009 7:22:22 pm Lowell Gilbert wrote: > > > Gonzalo Nemmi writes: > > > > Well .. someday UFS will be replaced by ZFS .. I don't see a reason why UFS should be removed anytime soon. If that happens, then that would be in a very distant future when nobody is using UFS anymore (and I'm not talking about FreeBSD only). > > And what would you say ... removing perl was more daunting that > > replacing Senmail? Honest question. > > Perl was harder. No question. *Replacing* sendmail is completely different from *removing* perl, both technically and historically. > I would actually be just as happy to see *no* MTA in the base system, > but the installer work to keep that from violating the Principle Of > Least Astonishment is even more tricky than replacing sendmail with > something else. There needs to be at least an LDA in the base system, unless you don't care about cron jobs and other things working correctly. I think many users *do* care. It doesn't have to be a fully-featured MTA, though, but at least it should be capable of queueing, remote delivery, support for aliases, forwarding and a few other things. Sendmail currently does all of that on FreeBSD out of the box with zero configuration efforts, just one line in rc.conf (sendmail_enable="NO") which will start up the queue daemon, listen for local mails and deliver them. If someone wants to replace sendmail with postfix (or any other MTA; there are quite a few to chose from), it must be made sure that there is no change from a users point of view, i.e. the above rc.conf line should continue to work just the same way. But then again, if there is no user- visible change, then why bother to change anything at all? Those who need to run a "real" mail server that accepts remote mail (probably a small minority) can install their favourite-MTA-of-the-day from the ports collection. Oh, by the way, I would like the bike shed painted orange. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "[...] one observation we can make here is that Python makes an excellent pseudocoding language, with the wonderful attribute that it can actually be executed." -- Bruce Eckel From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 29 19:42:37 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B15110656B4 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:42:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stb@lassitu.de) Received: from koef.zs64.net (koef.zs64.net [212.12.50.230]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 554C18FC1F for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:42:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost by koef.zs64.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n9TJ9CMC020608 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:09:13 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from stb@lassitu.de) (authenticated as stb) Message-Id: <862FA087-DBC3-4074-A340-8ECB82494E6C@lassitu.de> From: Stefan Bethke To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:09:10 -0400 References: <20091028230859.GA43772@cons.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.936) Cc: Martin Cracauer Subject: Fwd: BSD meeting - Wed Nov 4 evening Cambridge, MA X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:42:37 -0000 Three RSVPs so far. Anfang der weitergeleiteten E-Mail: > Von: Martin Cracauer > Datum: 28. Oktober 2009 19:08:59 GMT-04:00 > Betreff: BSD meeting - Wed Nov 4 evening > > Well, this is the list of interested parties. There were more for a > dinner meeting. > > So I'll say: > - Wed, Nov 4, 2009. > - 7 p.m. > - Koreana, 154 Prospect St, Cambridge, MA > > http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=koreana+cambridge&ie=UTF8&om=1&hq=koreana&hnear=Cambridge,+MA&t=h&z=16&iwloc=A > > I would have preferred that Indian place where we met a couple years > back but alas you can rent the space now :-/ > > If Korean or Koreana doesn't work for anybody let us know, I think we > are a small enough group to be adjust. > > You can park on the other side of Prospect Street on the large parking > lot belonging to Whole Foods between Koreana and Central Square, it is > free parking in the evening. (this is not the couple spots right in > front of the whole foods door, use the one adjacent to Bishop Allen > Drive). > > Public transportation: > - Red Line Central Square (note that what the train announcer says is > "Cambridge Center" is not Central Square, that is Kendall) > - walk north-north-east to the third street (Broadway) > > Hope that works for you. > > Martin > -- > %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > Martin Cracauer http://www.cons.org/cracauer/ > FreeBSD - where you want to go, today. http://www.freebsd.org/ -- Stefan Bethke Fon +49 151 14070811 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 30 08:50:42 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 711A9106566B; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 08:50:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sektie@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pz0-f202.google.com (mail-pz0-f202.google.com [209.85.222.202]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B3A18FC18; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 08:50:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pzk40 with SMTP id 40so1775212pzk.7 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 01:50:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=39jrT0S/nsT0000bMcu89gV3pMyQpV/NWFsBggHqcCQ=; b=jH9YoNHEJPEvd/FAxhbrTn9SpONUG4ZDqKu3WJhwL5HLQ0o+dvDS3MNBrJ0jPGlaC/ T/3sK1nk2C39QKOug0kKIuJrMPl3cRSQ+6FoqjEsgjrfOWOUX1VvOf9e4s14uC5IvY3F 8pu2VoJG/rKWJKJzzvLOlGORp5a7tRi+EnNSA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=L9UwIP/+unRk2ur/JzJgRz47/docZY3YgfwUqISC+NBjTxqt3sg6QQFE109PUMm5zP pTQsbyPZZyCf6JgMdKo3ouI/FKw56rKZvTZmkhUpHPMoHMv5S96Be1Wa9OppUmUu236N rsBmjriSCDk7gOeNeJiCYsghzOwfxUK/YruWQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: sektie@gmail.com Received: by 10.142.61.37 with SMTP id j37mr128793wfa.35.1256892641891; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 01:50:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200910301018.25483.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> References: <4AE5F897.3000103@rawbw.com> <20091029182739.GA22923@ei.bzerk.org> <20091029145843.Q98757@qroenaqrq.6qbyyneqvnyhc.pbz> <200910301018.25483.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 01:50:41 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 7fd16a451210b8dc Message-ID: From: Randi Harper To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: Re: Why is sendmail is part of the system and not a package? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 08:50:42 -0000 MAKE THE PAIN STOP. Seriously, read back in the friggin' mailing list archives. None of y'all are going to say anything that hasn't been said before. Or don't, and just prove how valuable your time isn't by wasting it arguing about something that everyone else is just rolling their eyes at and ignoring, as they've seen it all before. This bikeshed is old and tired. I don't want to paint it. I want to drown it in lighter fluid and set it on fire. -- randi From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 30 13:56:54 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D021106568F for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 13:56:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@loveturtle.net) Received: from loveturtle.net (loveturtle.net [216.89.228.174]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 500638FC12 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 13:56:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by loveturtle.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 105976380 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:40:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at loveturtle.net Received: from loveturtle.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (loveturtle.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 009e8GWn4dyi for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:40:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vier.loveturtle.net (vier.loveturtle.net [216.182.254.140]) by loveturtle.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42ED16373 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:40:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4AEAECE0.1040704@loveturtle.net> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:40:48 -0400 From: Dillon Kass User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Macintosh/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <4AE5F897.3000103@rawbw.com> <20091029182739.GA22923@ei.bzerk.org> <20091029145843.Q98757@qroenaqrq.6qbyyneqvnyhc.pbz> <200910301018.25483.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Why is sendmail is part of the system and not a package? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 13:56:54 -0000 QMAIL SHOULD BE IN THE BASE SYSTEM INSTEAD!!!!!! lololololololololol From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 30 21:13:13 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18746106566B for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 21:13:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from astrodog@gmail.com) Received: from mail-iw0-f189.google.com (mail-iw0-f189.google.com [209.85.223.189]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D42088FC20 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 21:13:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iwn27 with SMTP id 27so2386543iwn.7 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 14:13:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:cc:content-type; bh=KwXGIVF/+TMiznBoubv5mpigrPtUcbDXr8QSNP6fZjQ=; b=k+mdD/arMv8N3XzTRM4cSq+zAzo5bITJucjKiBXy/KJ3tBlJp0M0FDJpbJOSj30PdG 2OxfhWVO8AP4VmTQhzjsQ8fDrcdhug3XELn9NQzcYpwI2D34bhaxghDsMeuBuspotK59 4NMGN/Kpy2xF3BthgBamG8PzviQMdLnLCBBp4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; b=BxsIfQf4LjEAcANC2w2Z611NJL7NV6ICPEVGmOg6HqqShmrmAGSP7BbSuOi3dACeQh dwWFkAboiXvHKKYY1eiN9SlbMaZ1YnW47rIdBMUmmZDFb09O6FCkV8ZFZvJUZVVZkWpS LcWeU59m5CETuPr1ZEUC2UQNYdtLfujFUps98= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.26.131 with SMTP id e3mr2072016ibc.0.1256935788937; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 13:49:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4AEAECE0.1040704@loveturtle.net> References: <4AE5F897.3000103@rawbw.com> <20091029182739.GA22923@ei.bzerk.org> <20091029145843.Q98757@qroenaqrq.6qbyyneqvnyhc.pbz> <200910301018.25483.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> <4AEAECE0.1040704@loveturtle.net> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:49:48 -0500 Message-ID: <2fd864e0910301349x3a17326r264b7e4e423f99db@mail.gmail.com> From: Astrodog Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Why is sendmail is part of the system and not a package? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 21:13:13 -0000 I would just like to point out that no one has considered the possibility of, perhaps, painting the bikeshed with a pattern using multiple colors, or perhaps even varying grades of reflective paint. This would make it significantly more pleasing to the eye... and with shiny paint, we can also attract significantly more users. --- Harrison From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 30 21:44:15 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C5C510656A4 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 21:44:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cracauer@koef.zs64.net) Received: from koef.zs64.net (koef.zs64.net [212.12.50.230]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A80838FC08 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 21:44:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from koef.zs64.net (koef.zs64.net [212.12.50.230]) by koef.zs64.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n9ULEaOF053156 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 22:14:36 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from cracauer@koef.zs64.net) Received: (from cracauer@localhost) by koef.zs64.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id n9ULEaOR053155 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 17:14:36 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cracauer) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 17:14:36 -0400 From: Martin Cracauer To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20091030211436.GA52767@cons.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Subject: BSD meeting in Cambridge, MA, Wednesday Nov 4, 2009 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 21:44:15 -0000 We have a couple of BSD people getting together for some birds of a feather type chitchat. It's a restaurant near Central, Square, Cambridge, MA, Wednesday Nov 4, 7:00 p.m. Please email for the particular place, I need to keep track so that we get a big enough table. Martin -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Martin Cracauer http://www.cons.org/cracauer/ FreeBSD - where you want to go, today. http://www.freebsd.org/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 30 22:05:33 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7C3F1065670 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 22:05:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brett@lariat.net) Received: from lariat.net (lariat.net [66.119.58.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3BB38FC15 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 22:05:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from anne-o1dpaayth1.lariat.net (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.net@lariat.net [66.119.58.2]) by lariat.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11432; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:05:29 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200910302205.QAA11432@lariat.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:05:25 -0600 To: Randi Harper , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: References: <4AE5F897.3000103@rawbw.com> <20091029182739.GA22923@ei.bzerk.org> <20091029145843.Q98757@qroenaqrq.6qbyyneqvnyhc.pbz> <200910301018.25483.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: Re: Why is sendmail is part of the system and not a package? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 22:05:33 -0000 At 02:50 AM 10/30/2009, Randi Harper wrote: >This bikeshed is old and tired. I don't want to paint it. I want to drown it >in lighter fluid and set it on fire. I've never seen a bike shed. Unless perhaps it had a furry seat cover. --Brett Glass From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 31 06:44:32 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A15EF1065676 for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 06:44:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root.vagner@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bw0-f213.google.com (mail-bw0-f213.google.com [209.85.218.213]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FB508FC0A for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 06:44:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bwz5 with SMTP id 5so4403039bwz.3 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 23:44:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:received:date:from:to:subject :message-id:mime-version:content-type:content-disposition:user-agent; bh=SaVyKVm/EcF0WICasHaKVfYTtNTvwUu4uNvmt/2dyYE=; b=ZDZFaU1j35RvLa/LFYfSqcOLayAWrua49OeuwX1aMM/nfcHpZ48EDt5ToZaMQbXoOS 9wroffKaPzWzYDva6YEgPRTX8pP83ww9mgkKZ2bFlFQ+Nig6YOvZgTJDwYQzPyfvxOKU 4zEzUVnyVRNaSfZDKi3jcZiHLrEbh7YhWRnwo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:mime-version:content-type :content-disposition:user-agent; b=UWkwCj9BuvqOBW48TF5nR6MxdoN8NomVOBbqhoCpqwLKu3tSMfW2Bo27sWmi3At1Um HoPUpsUcBc54ECnszddwVW57K1vhtHvykpUJXd3n7S1+JFXKC/kFCZURfm0GrgLCf0WH 19yW5i4C4orxJ89L6Gzy8RZrQUSkhNZgwlBYA= Received: by 10.204.150.77 with SMTP id x13mr1865932bkv.100.1256970002434; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 23:20:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from root.vagner@gmail.com ([77.66.145.99]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z15sm1816628fkz.44.2009.10.30.23.20.01 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 30 Oct 2009 23:20:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by root.vagner@gmail.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:19:56 +0300 Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:19:56 +0300 From: Vagner To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20091031061956.GA4561@vagner.bsd.loc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Subject: FreeBSD vs Russian's laws X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 06:44:32 -0000 Good day! I wanted to share with you the situation in Russia and hear advice. In Russia introduced a law "On personal data" and the corresponding standarts. In accordance with these standarts process personal data (ie 80% of all data in the enterprise) can only by certified operating systems and software. Certified happening in the Federal Security Service in Russia (FSB in USA). But FreeBSD doesn't certify anyone. That is, in Russia are trying to ban the use os Freebsd and similar. For the use of face criminal liability. What do i do not kwow, but refuse to use FreeBSD, i don't intend to. How do you fight against corruption & bureaucraty in the government itself? Thks -- Respectfully, Stanislav Putrya System administrator "RMK Kovsh" Ltd. IM: 328585847 mob. phone: +79525600664 email: root.vagner@gmail.com email: vagner_rider@bk.ru ---------------------------------------- ( ) ASCII ribbon campaign X - against HTML, vCards and / \ - proprietary attachments in e-mail From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 31 10:12:16 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50CED1065670 for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 10:12:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mozolevsky@gmail.com) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.155]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A522E8FC0A for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 10:12:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id d23so1655029fga.13 for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 03:12:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-type; bh=0oLI3GE9qPL2Q+tW5l2qJCHH+OhqtQ2HVk6YQOoIpyY=; b=M5d/BYVCk/ro49VkdGhkDJ5M76ghAXHGn+VmV4/jb9GLgrvhPJ4ybmXk4fcSPhwxx9 hly7onYvYJoLj3Ka2U8tZSY7AjiH6uYIQ5JDLVNXEcveLHxwFqnJFNGQcqNRMn4R/r81 y53yNb05sLjwYbKO5xkQ5PvdI3jXOmRhhC+Fg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; b=P0v73VAFmT5EVI0zFHDkEpCkl3mci09FOvIiQOYx1SK9Z2+555QyPanL193OK0EHRd 36iTSswVgD4v835Sv2n6nJwBzMFA3w6T14UBHHU3R/LCzfd+O/f1THTDA8pRqjz2phvZ X1o1jshRAZccftMp4+oqzGmaBvKFhCtIlbVgI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: mozolevsky@gmail.com Received: by 10.86.254.17 with SMTP id b17mr297354fgi.65.1256982277073; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 02:44:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20091031061956.GA4561@vagner.bsd.loc> References: <20091031061956.GA4561@vagner.bsd.loc> From: Igor Mozolevsky Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:44:17 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 33c13a697e3cd4df Message-ID: To: Vagner Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Russian's laws X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 10:12:16 -0000 2009/10/31 Vagner : > In Russia introduced a law "On personal data" and the > corresponding standarts. In accordance with these standarts process > personal data (ie 80% of all data in the enterprise) can only by > certified operating systems and software. > Certified happening in the Federal Security Service in Russia (FSB in USA). > But FreeBSD doesn't certify anyone. Huh? Do you mean Zakon 152-FZ [1]? I could not find anything in that statute that mentions certified operating system (ok, I did just do "search" and not a detailed read), what section/paragraph are you referring to? 1. http://www.rg.ru/printable/2006/07/29/personaljnye-dannye-dok.html Cheers, -- Igor :-) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 31 13:33:35 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDACE106566C for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 13:33:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from solarux@hotmail.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s65.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s65.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.96]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8CDE8FC19 for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 13:33:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BAY113-W39 ([65.54.168.139]) by bay0-omc1-s65.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 31 Oct 2009 06:33:35 -0700 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [67.212.23.8] From: Rick N To: Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:33:35 -0400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20091031061956.GA4561@vagner.bsd.loc> References: <20091031061956.GA4561@vagner.bsd.loc> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Oct 2009 13:33:35.0222 (UTC) FILETIME=[BEF54160:01CA5A2E] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: RE: FreeBSD vs Russian's laws X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 13:33:35 -0000 We're all certifiable with the *BSD's=2C no pun intended. :) I'm not sure if this helps but there is accepted "certs" for the BSD's. http://www.bsdcertification.org/ -and it's fairly cheap. as far as your "...How do you fight against corruption & bureaucraty in the= government itself?..." well=2C UNFORTUNATELY=2C every country in the world HAS THAT problem. =20 GL =20 Rick. -------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Sat=2C 31 Oct 2009 09:19:56 +0300 > From: root.vagner@gmail.com > To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > Subject: FreeBSD vs Russian's laws >=20 > Good day! I wanted to share with you the situation in Russia and hear > advice. In Russia introduced a law "On personal data" and the > corresponding standarts. In accordance with these standarts process > personal data (ie 80% of all data in the enterprise) can only by > certified operating systems and software. > Certified happening in the Federal Security Service in Russia (FSB in USA= ). But FreeBSD doesn't certify anyone. > That is=2C in Russia are trying to ban the use os Freebsd and similar. > For the use of face criminal liability. What do i do not kwow=2C but > refuse to use FreeBSD=2C i don't intend to. Thks >=20 > --=20 > Respectfully=2C > Stanislav Putrya > System administrator > "RMK Kovsh" Ltd. > IM: 328585847 > mob. phone: +79525600664 > email: root.vagner@gmail.com > email: vagner_rider@bk.ru >=20 > ---------------------------------------- > ( ) ASCII ribbon campaign > X - against HTML=2C vCards and > / \ - proprietary attachments in e-mail > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe=2C send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" =20 _________________________________________________________________ CDN College or University student? Get Windows 7 for only $39.99 before Jan= 3! Buy it now! http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=3D9691636= From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 31 14:17:18 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50BE3106568F for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 14:17:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root.vagner@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bw0-f213.google.com (mail-bw0-f213.google.com [209.85.218.213]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEDE88FC0A for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 14:17:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bwz5 with SMTP id 5so4655381bwz.3 for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 07:17:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:received:date:from:to:cc :subject:message-id:references:mime-version:content-type :content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=OotFTrzDaL/Njf3zxHXTVd46WtwI8iA7jE7G2DecW2E=; b=d+5tW0z6u6FMqlZAcnXoEN05eQAtGrhWEXTUvS647VXsCI0w014TPeawx7REyTJiI1 AS5644uo+nZNHzMB+J7LsIsz9HHwZ9no7b+/THRIZYZB35mzd5pCLpMYWRMpSkmX35oE oY2DeDS1xEaEKjcLSQtMQ8mQ0OG+w0YHqlik4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; b=ZdsRIOixkoPEtPh9O2KPrhuHCPlT9zxA0ZxJMQnri4eyTIPp9OcXB00/7OFfYuS33z aWT9N+mpjXryOzAQeoF+LWnxLDJ8DaL77Fzxjyku+L0dQKxqujZrx8y9gIsKJwZ+LaFv 5u0C3CKInxvW5H0xxzzRkLPr7InDgfQlz8NA8= Received: by 10.103.122.29 with SMTP id z29mr1180181mum.53.1256998636405; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 07:17:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from root.vagner@gmail.com ([77.66.145.99]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j2sm3183216mue.46.2009.10.31.07.17.15 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 31 Oct 2009 07:17:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by root.vagner@gmail.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sat, 31 Oct 2009 17:16:52 +0300 Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 17:16:52 +0300 From: Vagner To: Igor Mozolevsky Message-ID: <20091031141651.GA7175@vagner.bsd.loc> References: <20091031061956.GA4561@vagner.bsd.loc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Russian's laws X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 14:17:18 -0000 On 09:44 Sat 31 Oct , Igor Mozolevsky wrote: > 2009/10/31 Vagner : > > > In Russia introduced a law "On personal data" and the > > corresponding standarts. In accordance with these standarts process > > personal data (ie 80% of all data in the enterprise) can only by > > certified operating systems and software. > > Certified happening in the Federal Security Service in Russia (FSB in USA). > > But FreeBSD doesn't certify anyone. > > Huh? Do you mean Zakon 152-FZ [1]? I could not find anything in that > statute that mentions certified operating system (ok, I did just do > "search" and not a detailed read), what section/paragraph are you > referring to? > > 1. http://www.rg.ru/printable/2006/07/29/personaljnye-dannye-dok.html > > Cheers, > > -- > Igor :-) Yes, i mean this is the law... In addition to the Federal Security Service checks and will deal with the Federal Service for Technical and Export Control (FSTEC). According to the normative legal documents No. ROSS RU.0001.01BI00 (http://www.fstec.ru/_srt/_prbser.htm) and the state registry of certified funds (http://www.fstec.ru/_doc/_reestr_sszi.xls) all used for processing and storage facilities should be certified. The site www.fstec.ru given a full list of legal documents on the subject. It is not sad it sounds - but it turns freebsd in russia will simply be banned:( -- Respectfully, Stanislav Putrya System administrator "RMK Kovsh" Ltd. IM: 328585847 mob. phone: +79525600664 email: root.vagner@gmail.com email: vagner_rider@bk.ru ---------------------------------------- ( ) ASCII ribbon campaign X - against HTML, vCards and / \ - proprietary attachments in e-mail From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 31 14:32:34 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41469106566C for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 14:32:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root.vagner@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bw0-f213.google.com (mail-bw0-f213.google.com [209.85.218.213]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C14038FC0C for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 14:32:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bwz5 with SMTP id 5so4665983bwz.3 for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 07:32:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:received:date:from:to:cc :subject:message-id:references:mime-version:content-type :content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=27JFOEh0kZyKHu2+UJR5LJgmocGi4F+rSNrfGRSJj8o=; b=hCkGpV7+Q9s3wLJ6+Li0C0d2SD6YL78f46by2gfONYBlSlv88RjCn+RIpSVt8RwHGq NEdk+oLx5Gcgf5THp1r+ztMyexRyjL1gFJvWtLjBPC62MkfwaXfYE0L+sd9+zay6M6i4 b7eT337I5SD80AVpnwm4b+62Np8XaSvgNf+S4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; b=pl4PYWzv/S1b7uHXPvrb9FmBAxylGeK+oxCmtcbHFaQY7riizjeeFaB5I6p4dTKmJg C35xNCWK6TSvclHfLiCBGGxGOiMNKMVxomGxDDl321PEvRNeVPWx/9lYVMZSVh3uEQQG 5dNBAbnObDUxFnLMtuY7PlWXw8wS52k5U6Ihs= Received: by 10.204.34.73 with SMTP id k9mr2190911bkd.45.1256999552592; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 07:32:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from root.vagner@gmail.com ([77.66.145.99]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c28sm2683352fka.54.2009.10.31.07.32.31 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 31 Oct 2009 07:32:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by root.vagner@gmail.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sat, 31 Oct 2009 17:32:25 +0300 Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 17:32:25 +0300 From: Vagner To: Rick N Message-ID: <20091031143008.GA7267@vagner.bsd.loc> References: <20091031061956.GA4561@vagner.bsd.loc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Russian's laws X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 14:32:34 -0000 On 09:33 Sat 31 Oct , Rick N wrote: > > We're all certifiable with the *BSD's, no pun intended. :) > I'm not sure if this helps but there is accepted "certs" for the BSD's. > > http://www.bsdcertification.org/ -and it's fairly cheap. > > as far as your "...How do you fight against corruption & bureaucraty in the government itself?..." > > well, UNFORTUNATELY, every country in the world HAS THAT problem. > > > > GL > > > > Rick. > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:19:56 +0300 > > From: root.vagner@gmail.com > > To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > > Subject: FreeBSD vs Russian's laws > > > > Good day! I wanted to share with you the situation in Russia and hear > > advice. In Russia introduced a law "On personal data" and the > > corresponding standarts. In accordance with these standarts process > > personal data (ie 80% of all data in the enterprise) can only by > > certified operating systems and software. > > Certified happening in the Federal Security Service in Russia (FSB in USA). But FreeBSD doesn't certify anyone. > > That is, in Russia are trying to ban the use os Freebsd and similar. > > For the use of face criminal liability. What do i do not kwow, but > > refuse to use FreeBSD, i don't intend to. Thks > > > > -- > > Respectfully, > > Stanislav Putrya > > System administrator > > "RMK Kovsh" Ltd. > > IM: 328585847 > > mob. phone: +79525600664 > > email: root.vagner@gmail.com > > email: vagner_rider@bk.ru > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > ( ) ASCII ribbon campaign > > X - against HTML, vCards and > > / \ - proprietary attachments in e-mail > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > _________________________________________________________________ > CDN College or University student? Get Windows 7 for only $39.99 before Jan 3! Buy it now! > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691636_______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" Rick, the main problem lies in the fact that Russia's goverment exactly as the laws are not oriented in this matter on the international certification. It seems that in Russia trying to break as minnimum citizens feedom of choise and competition policy:( -- Respectfully, Stanislav Putrya System administrator "RMK Kovsh" Ltd. IM: 328585847 mob. phone: +79525600664 email: root.vagner@gmail.com email: vagner_rider@bk.ru ---------------------------------------- ( ) ASCII ribbon campaign X - against HTML, vCards and / \ - proprietary attachments in e-mail From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 31 15:17:57 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47201106568F for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 15:17:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from solarux@hotmail.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s60.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s60.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.91]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30DBF8FC1A for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 15:17:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BAY113-W23 ([65.54.168.123]) by bay0-omc1-s60.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 31 Oct 2009 08:17:56 -0700 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [67.212.23.8] From: Rick N To: Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 11:17:56 -0400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20091031143008.GA7267@vagner.bsd.loc> References: <20091031061956.GA4561@vagner.bsd.loc> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Oct 2009 15:17:56.0822 (UTC) FILETIME=[53299760:01CA5A3D] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: RE: FreeBSD vs Russian's laws X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 15:17:57 -0000 > Date: Sat=2C 31 Oct 2009 17:32:25 +0300 > From: root.vagner@gmail.com > To: solarux@hotmail.com > CC: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Russian's laws >=20 > On 09:33 Sat 31 Oct =2C Rick N wrote: > >=20 > > We're all certifiable with the *BSD's=2C no pun intended. :) > > I'm not sure if this helps but there is accepted "certs" for the BSD'= s. > >=20 > > http://www.bsdcertification.org/ -and it's fairly cheap. > >=20 > > as far as your "...How do you fight against corruption & bureaucraty in= the government itself?..." > >=20 > > well=2C UNFORTUNATELY=2C every country in the world HAS THAT problem. > >=20 > > =20 > >=20 > > GL > >=20 > > =20 > >=20 > > Rick. > >=20 > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > > Date: Sat=2C 31 Oct 2009 09:19:56 +0300 > > > From: root.vagner@gmail.com > > > To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > > > Subject: FreeBSD vs Russian's laws > > >=20 > > > Good day! I wanted to share with you the situation in Russia and hear > > > advice. In Russia introduced a law "On personal data" and the > > > corresponding standarts. In accordance with these standarts process > > > personal data (ie 80% of all data in the enterprise) can only by > > > certified operating systems and software. > > > Certified happening in the Federal Security Service in Russia (FSB in= USA). But FreeBSD doesn't certify anyone. > > > That is=2C in Russia are trying to ban the use os Freebsd and similar= . > > > For the use of face criminal liability. What do i do not kwow=2C but > > > refuse to use FreeBSD=2C i don't intend to. Thks > > >=20 > > > --=20 > > > Respectfully=2C > > > Stanislav Putrya > > > System administrator > > > "RMK Kovsh" Ltd. > > > IM: 328585847 > > > mob. phone: +79525600664 > > > email: root.vagner@gmail.com > > > email: vagner_rider@bk.ru > > >=20 > > > ---------------------------------------- > > > ( ) ASCII ribbon campaign > > > X - against HTML=2C vCards and > > > / \ - proprietary attachments in e-mail > > > _______________________________________________ > > > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > > > To unsubscribe=2C send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.= org" > > =20 > > _________________________________________________________________ > > CDN College or University student? Get Windows 7 for only $39.99 before= Jan 3! Buy it now! > > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=3D9691636______________________________= _________________ > > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > > To unsubscribe=2C send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.or= g" >=20 > Rick=2C the main problem lies in the fact that Russia's goverment exactly > as the laws are not oriented in this matter on the international > certification. It seems that in Russia trying to break as minnimum > citizens feedom of choise and competition policy:( >=20 > --=20 > Respectfully=2C > Stanislav Putrya > System administrator > "RMK Kovsh" Ltd. > IM: 328585847 > mob. phone: +79525600664 > email: root.vagner@gmail.com > email: vagner_rider@bk.ru >=20 > ---------------------------------------- > ( ) ASCII ribbon campaign > X - against HTML=2C vCards and > / \ - proprietary attachments in e-mail > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe=2C send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------- Hi Stanislav=2C Thats not good news for you guys indeed. Correct if I'm wrong=2C but I guess its sounds like the one most certifiab= le (aka pay$ the most corrupt money -gets to be the certified-OS of choice = in Russia. ? lets me guess - Bill Gates wins right? I hope not. GL Rick. =20 _________________________________________________________________ Ready for a deal-of-a-lifetime? See fantastic offers on Windows 7=2C in one= convenient place. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=3D9691634= From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 31 15:44:45 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7EFC10656B5 for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 15:44:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root.vagner@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bw0-f213.google.com (mail-bw0-f213.google.com [209.85.218.213]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AA728FC28 for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 15:44:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bwz5 with SMTP id 5so4717320bwz.3 for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 08:44:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:received:date:from:to:cc :subject:message-id:references:mime-version:content-type :content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=JlSwaFCH+vEMy5+35waIUgeNbgNeAAZUmjYl+ds5xzY=; b=lj3LFxF3oryKfBB9qEtPDDuK1X1rsHTgEBDyYTA/I26Y9ff4BO5g+zhVjtN1wwUG5h CsJOmJRCopkTVUQ+MG06Trluks8VGcAouc7E/MWfMBTLup7dUXzx8lu5u/2Ovhy464cX FvEkXxxoVaSNQmiVXto5RC3+Y3A+6Q+zguL78= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; b=rMT/MqPOYUqzRE66Y5TRZRZsXG0rItDp2bKGVJO33vmm9CEtff8d99k01Y7jrDiflH 8f1h+fDjNhGPkXhhloQxB5PYK0y9lwFFcf4PFJcK6/r4dKwFDfprb9hRpR+L6Vqh9waz 1Ny19bSPsmhrNf9XTTBDCWTTIZv7laVFj0zdE= Received: by 10.204.25.207 with SMTP id a15mr2269850bkc.8.1257003883109; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 08:44:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from root.vagner@gmail.com ([77.66.145.99]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p17sm3165348fka.42.2009.10.31.08.44.42 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 31 Oct 2009 08:44:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by root.vagner@gmail.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sat, 31 Oct 2009 18:44:36 +0300 Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 18:44:36 +0300 From: Vagner To: Rick N Message-ID: <20091031154436.GA8058@vagner.bsd.loc> References: <20091031061956.GA4561@vagner.bsd.loc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Cc: Freebsd chat Mail List Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Russian's laws X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 15:44:45 -0000 > Thats not good news for you guys indeed. > Correct if I'm wrong, but I guess its sounds like the one most certifiable (aka pay$ the most corrupt money -gets to be the certified-OS of choice in Russia. ? > lets me guess - Bill Gates wins right? > I hope not. > GL > Rick. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Ready for a deal-of-a-lifetime? See fantastic offers on Windows 7, in one convenient place. > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691634_______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" Yes, you understood everything correctly. In Russia it's introduced as another of many ways to take money from organizations. But this is not correct:(( In Russia there are organizations representing the interests of the community - they sell to support itself freebsd. Why they do not work towards the legalization freebsd - don't understand. I want to find a way to freely choose FreeBSD as the primary server for organizations, but if things go further it will be impossible. Time to bring the systems in accordance with the laws - 1.01.2010 -- Respectfully, Stanislav Putrya System administrator "RMK Kovsh" Ltd. IM: 328585847 mob. phone: +79525600664 email: root.vagner@gmail.com email: vagner_rider@bk.ru ---------------------------------------- ( ) ASCII ribbon campaign X - against HTML, vCards and / \ - proprietary attachments in e-mail From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 31 16:39:31 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 912BB106566C for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 16:39:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mozolevsky@gmail.com) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.156]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23A668FC13 for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 16:39:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id d23so1743492fga.13 for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:39:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-type; bh=3EwnlBygJ0xAnWt3rY3HgcOg/3oUc1IL2jy1pQV3R0s=; b=s27p6s976e8BTdY2fyIK5KaDNM6zhKK4pYL7HEs2CPlnWxWcjD1PLyDN/U/oiogu6k ZTvRy5Y0pHehvdwNTjZLOtcvt8hM69qF46buyq1dA5ZNSP+24whLgXg0XeJ+GoRGLCCV mAO4KZrFCoWj8EVufvIXyVqxm0q6zGOD8n0v8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; b=LoiTNWKF/qhpewbqPCLlNL9gg55PIoeqAxcd2pLzEdxdi3gR2HDDZMnlU7HHogLyMA HTh55quU2Evwjsk2wq/iiO+W/9zal4albJ79JBZ7ju+y0OnmoayP7W2BW1VwBpv0tsHf LlvlARnNdsdXj8JW+lL7I3YM/YxIXrAgbNPfM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: mozolevsky@gmail.com Received: by 10.87.73.33 with SMTP id a33mr608074fgl.26.1257007169049; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:39:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20091031141651.GA7175@vagner.bsd.loc> References: <20091031061956.GA4561@vagner.bsd.loc> <20091031141651.GA7175@vagner.bsd.loc> From: Igor Mozolevsky Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 16:39:09 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: bb32fdcacf1b103d Message-ID: To: Vagner Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Russian's laws X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 16:39:31 -0000 2009/10/31 Vagner : > Yes, i mean this is the law... In addition to the Federal Security Service > checks and will deal with > the Federal Service for Technical and Export Control (FSTEC). According > to the normative legal documents No. ROSS RU.0001.01BI00 > (http://www.fstec.ru/_srt/_prbser.htm) and the state registry of > certified funds (http://www.fstec.ru/_doc/_reestr_sszi.xls) all used for > processing and storage facilities should be certified. The site > www.fstec.ru given a full list of legal documents on the subject. It is > not sad it sounds - but it turns freebsd in russia will simply be > banned:( Let me ask you again - *where specifically* does it actually say that all systems that process data must be certified or compliant with a specific standard? The Zakon is very vague on the exact criteria and that is for a reason... The closest thing I could find to what you are describing was on the FSTEC site in relation to *State* Secrets... Besides, if *all* systems that process personal data had to be certified, you do realise that includes telephones, PBXes, PDAs and so on?.. I think you're over-reacting... Cheers, -- Igor From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 31 17:56:10 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D7A3106568B for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 17:56:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root.vagner@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bw0-f213.google.com (mail-bw0-f213.google.com [209.85.218.213]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 941C38FC1F for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 17:56:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bwz5 with SMTP id 5so4813675bwz.3 for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 10:56:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:received:date:from:to:cc :subject:message-id:references:mime-version:content-type :content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=S+TvTZm715W6OrZFycEo44kB+MJN/JW0VDEk97ZEsLs=; b=cFJ3q9Ug09gizDwarpeD9y0snlrd9fPyiQQJXufi+efsMlsWyxvAA5dqy4toZDbf5B Qqb2ipaPFEFaE2OOwT4ot46nyIgFaEdaYkdke1bBmTC7rVHY3HswMGndRlkBo2D5fmSP nM+sKHAXlmKYWRHNx/SBwrF9Qc8ygwzyTwDNE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; b=JDnuEkB3WAiQR7KEsXiAE2kRwctUfRZ3TxOiJrICzG4GyS58Py2CvR4JuUJDCoqGJU CL0hQ08RlRo6EjZ+Nle4qVbZbDa4jijzkt7a+qxxu7+5o0WNXkBgrpkW1Q/vjR34KbI+ H/8EHb7rkN3bLGgCeBveyEbTuvYgjo8koVPCQ= Received: by 10.204.13.207 with SMTP id d15mr2303948bka.157.1257011766046; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 10:56:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from root.vagner@gmail.com ([77.66.145.99]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h2sm3130606fkh.36.2009.10.31.10.56.04 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 31 Oct 2009 10:56:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by root.vagner@gmail.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sat, 31 Oct 2009 20:55:58 +0300 Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 20:55:57 +0300 From: Vagner To: Igor Mozolevsky Message-ID: <20091031175557.GA8527@vagner.bsd.loc> References: <20091031061956.GA4561@vagner.bsd.loc> <20091031141651.GA7175@vagner.bsd.loc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Cc: Freebsd chat Mail List Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Russian's laws X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 17:56:10 -0000 On 16:39 Sat 31 Oct , Igor Mozolevsky wrote: > 2009/10/31 Vagner : > > > Yes, i mean this is the law... In addition to the Federal Security Service > > checks and will deal with > > the Federal Service for Technical and Export Control (FSTEC). According > > to the normative legal documents No. ROSS RU.0001.01BI00 > > (http://www.fstec.ru/_srt/_prbser.htm) and the state registry of > > certified funds (http://www.fstec.ru/_doc/_reestr_sszi.xls) all used for > > processing and storage facilities should be certified. The site > > www.fstec.ru given a full list of legal documents on the subject. It is > > not sad it sounds - but it turns freebsd in russia will simply be > > banned:( > > Let me ask you again - *where specifically* does it actually say that > all systems that process data must be certified or compliant with a > specific standard? The Zakon is very vague on the exact criteria and > that is for a reason... The closest thing I could find to what you are > describing was on the FSTEC site in relation to *State* Secrets... > > Besides, if *all* systems that process personal data had to be > certified, you do realise that includes telephones, PBXes, PDAs and so > on?.. I think you're over-reacting... > > > Cheers, > > -- > Igor I'm afraid that is not the exact wording in the law would allow the inspectors to establish their own rules:( Also - if you look at paragraph 1.5 Regulation on certification of information sequrity requirements for information sequrity: "subject to mandatory certification means, including foreing-made, designed to protect information constituting state secrets, and *other information restricted*, as well as tools used in the management of environmentally hazardous facilities." In accordance with advice received from FSTEC - freebsd used for operations with the data containing the name and etc. is forbidden:( I'll be only too glad if my analisis of the situation is not true, but if it's still true, then from january 1, many disputes will be resolved criminal cases( -- Respectfully, Stanislav Putrya System administrator "RMK Kovsh" Ltd. IM: 328585847 mob. phone: +79525600664 email: root.vagner@gmail.com email: vagner_rider@bk.ru ---------------------------------------- ( ) ASCII ribbon campaign X - against HTML, vCards and / \ - proprietary attachments in e-mail