From owner-freebsd-bluetooth@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 3 21:52:26 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: bluetooth@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 242A1106566B for ; Thu, 3 Jun 2010 21:52:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mi+thun@aldan.algebra.com) Received: from mail2.timeinc.net (mail2.timeinc.net [64.236.74.30]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD87D8FC0A for ; Thu, 3 Jun 2010 21:52:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.timeinc.net (mail.timeinc.net [64.12.55.166]) by mail2.timeinc.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o53LFTEi010489 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 3 Jun 2010 17:15:29 -0400 Received: from ws-mteterin.dev.pathfinder.com (ws-mteterin.dev.pathfinder.com [209.251.223.173]) by mail.timeinc.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with SMTP id o53LFTQY018708 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 2010 17:15:29 -0400 Message-ID: <4C081B71.30801@aldan.algebra.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2010 17:15:29 -0400 From: "Mikhail T." Organization: Virtual Estates, Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; uk; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100317 Lightning/1.0b1 Thunderbird/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bluetooth@FreeBSD.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: NAT over bluetooth for mobile devices X-BeenThere: freebsd-bluetooth@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Using Bluetooth in FreeBSD environments List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2010 21:52:26 -0000 Hello! I have the following idea, which should allow any mobile device with its own IP-networking -- such as a Blackberry or a (hacked) iPhone -- to offer connectivity to a compatible computer, regardless of the service-provider's wishes. The device needs to run some equivalent of natd... This way, all network connections will appear to the outside world as originating from the device itself. The device will connect to the general purpose computer via Bluetooth (although wired connections may also be possible, Bluetooth seems most standardized). The "natd", running on the device, will intercept and properly proxy the connections on behalf of the computer. The computer will, probably, use the specially-created tun-interface: tun <-> bluetooth <-> network address translation on the device <-> IP Note, that this would be different from using the device as a "modem" -- doing so, typically, makes the device unusable for anything else for the duration of the call, and requires the service-provider's cooperation (and thus higher fees). My way, if you can browse the 'net with the device's browser, you'll also be able to do so from a laptop sitting next to the device... If anyone wants to try it, I'd be willing to donate a Blackberry and/or some money to the cause. Please, respond off-line, if you are interested. Serious inquiries only. Continuation of the technical discussion should, certainly, stay on the mailing list (please, CC me as I'm not a subscriber). -mi From owner-freebsd-bluetooth@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 4 18:08:10 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: bluetooth@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAD221065677 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 2010 18:08:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from maksim.yevmenkin@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pw0-f54.google.com (mail-pw0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAA018FC12 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 2010 18:08:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pwj1 with SMTP id 1so900075pwj.13 for ; Fri, 04 Jun 2010 11:08:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=6indBlAMmnzuQnLgogHPUb3Ywtsll/WOcU+iltND7sA=; b=c6HUPc5p4ILij9DFy+5rPqA6B/6kV71uyGH7fNqvPTcCG5mB9XXTJ860EHvUZr/fxb 2fFwJHA5Pq9LwHwDOC7euA3bGqRuV3bq7ACkIHcnORk+FdLeHEHYuxHQNmK4YDvM5QrP +4tIf360YFPaRfB+tSb4ZT3V5iUoEYcf+iaTI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=T0d2cBEmKhJ5Emf0AM1zSGeeVqD5HREG3BUbnsUF3CyLxXA00sDA03xFy41pXmXtsp /IOYbu0FFl21mfM7krB/+jVbIkc+F0buI5XK/kJh5DOduNvQm21JIVdLUcXTm+b9Je5/ /DMO3ZoL1PJhxqb8wjoU17rFgLia5xwrixQDg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.88.2 with SMTP id q2mr9294392rvl.241.1275673417340; Fri, 04 Jun 2010 10:43:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.140.142.13 with HTTP; Fri, 4 Jun 2010 10:43:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4C081B71.30801@aldan.algebra.com> References: <4C081B71.30801@aldan.algebra.com> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 10:43:37 -0700 Message-ID: From: Maksim Yevmenkin To: "Mikhail T." Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: bluetooth@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NAT over bluetooth for mobile devices X-BeenThere: freebsd-bluetooth@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Using Bluetooth in FreeBSD environments List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 18:08:11 -0000 Hi Mikhail, > I have the following idea, which should allow any mobile device with its = own > IP-networking -- such as a Blackberry or a (hacked) iPhone -- to offer > connectivity to a compatible computer, regardless of the service-provider= 's > wishes. a worthy idea, indeed :) > The device needs to run some equivalent of natd... This way, all network > connections will appear to the outside world as originating from the devi= ce > itself. The device will connect to the general purpose computer via > Bluetooth (although wired connections may also be possible, Bluetooth see= ms > most standardized). > > The "natd", running on the device, will intercept and properly proxy the > connections on behalf of the computer. The computer will, probably, use t= he > specially-created tun-interface: > > =A0 tun <-> bluetooth <-> network address translation on the device <-> I= P i don't really think its has to be that complicated. all we really want to do here is to turn mobile device (i.e. phone) into a "gateway". that is mobile device needs to be multihomed (local network, and, cellular data network). local network can be bluetooth, wifi or even plain usb/serial cable. for bluetooth we can use lan or pan profiles. wifi, obviously, "just works" most of the time. the trick is the second part, i.e. "natd" part that runs on the mobile devi= ce. > Note, that this would be different from using the device as a "modem" -- > doing so, typically, makes the device unusable for anything else for the > duration of the call, and requires the service-provider's cooperation (an= d > thus higher fees). My way, if you can browse the 'net with the device's > browser, you'll also be able to do so from a laptop sitting next to the > device... well, yes and no. cellular data networks are somewhat different. for example with gsm (att, tmobile, etc) you can multiplex voice and data, i.e. it is possible to talk and surf (using 3g connection) at the same time. with cdma (verizon, sprint, etc.) it is not - its data or voice, but not both. it also depends on how network operator has provisioned data connection. some could be just wap only (i'm not sure if anyone still doing it these days, but you never know). also network operator is free to put all sorts of port blocks in place and/or transparent proxy, etc. etc. imo, operator does not care if you are using your mobile device as a "modem" or as a "gateway/router". the actual data connection is always originated from the mobile device. i'm not 100% sure, but, i'm guessing, after data connection is established mobile device talks ppp to actually get the ip address, etc. what i'm trying to say is that the only difference between "modem" and "gateway/router" scenario is that in "modem" scenario mobile device will not be able to access cellular data network itself (also i already mentioned issue with multiplexing data and voice on cellular cdma networks). > If anyone wants to try it, I'd be willing to donate a Blackberry and/or s= ome > money to the cause. Please, respond off-line, if you are interested. Seri= ous > inquiries only. Continuation of the technical discussion should, certainl= y, > stay on the mailing list (please, CC me as I'm not a subscriber). i actually want to have this (got me an iphone recently). obviously, iphone adds another layer of complexity, i.e. jailbreak. for now, i'd settle for tethering, i.e. using my iphone as 3g modem, however, i think we should shoot for the stars :) full blown gateway would be very nice to have. thanks, max From owner-freebsd-bluetooth@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 4 19:46:08 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: bluetooth@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0067C1065677 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 2010 19:46:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mi+thun@aldan.algebra.com) Received: from mail2.timeinc.net (mail2.timeinc.net [64.236.74.30]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5D7A8FC22 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 2010 19:46:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.timeinc.net (mail.timeinc.net [64.12.55.166]) by mail2.timeinc.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o54Jk6cD000538 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 4 Jun 2010 15:46:06 -0400 Received: from ws-mteterin.dev.pathfinder.com (ws-mteterin.dev.pathfinder.com [209.251.223.173]) by mail.timeinc.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with SMTP id o54Jk6A3024014; Fri, 4 Jun 2010 15:46:06 -0400 Message-ID: <4C0957FE.1030206@aldan.algebra.com> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 15:46:06 -0400 From: "Mikhail T." Organization: Virtual Estates, Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; uk; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100317 Lightning/1.0b1 Thunderbird/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Maksim Yevmenkin References: <4C081B71.30801@aldan.algebra.com> In-Reply-To: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 20:16:46 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: bluetooth@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NAT over bluetooth for mobile devices X-BeenThere: freebsd-bluetooth@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Using Bluetooth in FreeBSD environments List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 19:46:08 -0000 04.06.2010 13:43, Maksim Yevmenkin ???????(??): > i don't really think its has to be that complicated. all we really > want to do here is to turn mobile device (i.e. phone) into a > "gateway". that is mobile device needs to be multihomed (local > network, and, cellular data network). local network can be bluetooth, > wifi or even plain usb/serial cable. for bluetooth we can use lan or > pan profiles. wifi, obviously, "just works" most of the time. > Do those profiles (almost) always exist on otherwise suitable devices? Even if available from the manufacturer, they may be disabled by the service provider... It may be simpler if the communication was over some other, widely available, profile. A customized daemon (perhaps even a patched-up ppp) would then run on the computer behind the tun-interface, relaying network-requests over the bluetooth (or cable) link for a piece of software on the device to turn into network packets, which would appear to the rest of the world as originating from the device itself. > the trick is the second part, i.e. "natd" part that runs on the mobile device. > Absolutely... I don't have the slightest idea, where to even begin such a thing... -mi