From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat May 16 20:52:54 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40D032FD4E8 for ; Sat, 16 May 2020 20:52:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c1000615b430.c8964b1341182b2709d58efc27a856b0@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49PctF2tShz4277 for ; Sat, 16 May 2020 20:52:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c1000615b430.c8964b1341182b2709d58efc27a856b0@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1589662373; x=1592254373; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=Na1RBU7sY51rkoakTYB7f6tCHSUEZxkvTlf5/xOloUg=; b=LwPUaqg3Qgpa6EvJNoyUNxjaCzJyH848gXlJdaZxXClR3BECaK0t+YP3isFpE7HIhkNq3WocSnbU5Rc+hRH73MgB24V2FFSGprdhJH3Dx/RuOT/sxaVTg476wT34R3A2Bs+yxpJwawJj6QtV0uWh02hRm5KIAIQds58FQx3ey/o= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC45Mi4xZDRjMTAwMDYxNWI0MzAuZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r2.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com (r2.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com [142.0.191.2]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Sat, 16 May 2020 16:52:45 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r2.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Sat, 16 May 2020 16:52:44 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.92.3 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ja3nX-0003dV-Gm for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Sat, 16 May 2020 21:52:43 +0100 Date: Sat, 16 May 2020 21:52:43 +0100 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD 12.0 end-of-life Message-Id: <20200516215243.ec4df83e108b8699291f9de6@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <2C311DED-DF68-4BEB-B322-4468CB5AB31E@mail.sermon-archive.info> References: <20200217231452.717FA1E820@freefall.freebsd.org> <20200218091959.b0220ac75bcfbbced91a5708@sohara.org> <355B9AC5-84F8-48A3-ABD2-14B43AECC9D7@kreme.com> <20200516204553.a317afe4.freebsd@edvax.de> <2C311DED-DF68-4BEB-B322-4468CB5AB31E@mail.sermon-archive.info> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49PctF2tShz4277 X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=LwPUaqg3; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.82.1d4c1000615b430.c8964b1341182b2709d58efc27a856b0@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.82.1d4c1000615b430.c8964b1341182b2709d58efc27a856b0@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.36 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.69)[-0.686,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; IP_SCORE(0.02)[ip: (-0.18), ipnet: 142.0.176.0/22(0.26), asn: 7381(0.07), country: US(-0.05)]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[198.176.0.142.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.15.0]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c1000615b430.c8964b1341182b2709d58efc27a856b0@email-od.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c1000615b430.c8964b1341182b2709d58efc27a856b0@email-od.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 May 2020 20:52:54 -0000 On Sat, 16 May 2020 13:12:37 -0700 Doug Hardie wrote: > I started using FreeBSD somewhere between 2.5 and 2.7 and I remember the > confusion of those "labels". Yes the information is there, but it's not I started with 1.1 and watched those labels acquire their meaning during a period when every user built from sources and upgraded with make world. The terms seemed natural in that context and everyone using FreeBSD seemed to understand them, then as the OS matured and the user base widened it became clear that they were also confusing to some and the mailing lists grew noisy on the subject. > obvious to the new user. I was running production systems and the name > "stable" seemed like the right one. However, the descriptions made me > think that perhaps that was not the right choice. I finally settled on > "release" but it was quite a difficult decision. Before the release patches many people did run production systems on stable because the alternative was no changes until the next release. > It might be "obvious" to those who > know, but it's not for others. Not so much obvious as natural from some points of view, particularly the OS developer point of view, and indeed not natural from others which I think came as a surprise to some developers. These days I think most users should be running -release, installing packages, using freebsd-update and not going anywhere near sources. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith