From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 28 22:18:52 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C959106568D for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2009 22:18:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mx01.qsc.de (mx01.qsc.de [213.148.129.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43B968FC12 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 2009 22:18:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r55.edvax.de (port-92-195-97-236.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.97.236]) by mx01.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA7443CE0B; Wed, 28 Oct 2009 23:18:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from r55.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r55.edvax.de (8.14.2/8.14.2) with SMTP id n9SMIoPa001984; Wed, 28 Oct 2009 23:18:50 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 23:18:50 +0100 From: Polytropon To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20091028231850.2054c7d3.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20091028175520.5822fcb3@scorpio.seibercom.net> References: <4AE3944A.4090602@videotron.ca> <20091025062322.GA985@sandcat> <4AE63986.6090106@videotron.ca> <20091027051352.417ce684@scorpio.seibercom.net> <1256674827.6414.8.camel@lenzinote.wrinfo> <4AE7696F.1030601@videotron.ca> <20091028125318.44ee6593@elena.home> <20091028141025.248563e3.freebsd@edvax.de> <4AE8435E.7030202@videotron.ca> <20091028210542.4bde5c3a.freebsd@edvax.de> <4AE89F54.7000901@videotron.ca> <20091028222553.224ba333.freebsd@edvax.de> <20091028175520.5822fcb3@scorpio.seibercom.net> Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 2.4.7 (GTK+ 2.12.1; i386-portbld-freebsd7.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: Re: flashplugin X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Polytropon List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 22:18:52 -0000 On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 17:55:20 -0400, Jerry wrote: > On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 22:25:53 +0100 > Polytropon Polytropon replied: > > [snip] > > >That's not FreeBSD's fault. If "professional web designers" > >need to "optimize" their content in order to prevent you from > >properly accessing it, it's their fault. I would complain to > >them, or just ignore them. Content that its creator doesn't > >want me to see is not worth seeing. > > You don't really believe that do you. > Web creators attempt to make their > sites accessible to the largest possible audience. Let's say, they *should*. I've seen (or not seen) web pages... for example one that doesn't even tell you which page you are on without "Flash". Very useful for blind persons. > It is probably cost > prohibited, if even reasonably possible to make a site 100% viewable in > every browsers (don't forget lynxs) available. In most cases where "Flash" is used, it is used to annoy users with animated advertisement (where previously animated GIFs had been used) or to implement something that simple as a list of further links (which can be done in HTML, in JavaScript, but shouldn't require a proprietary plugin). If a web page is viewable in lynx, it's high quality. The term "quality" does not refer to the amount of different media embedded, nor does it refer to the amount of different fonts, font sizes, colors and images used. It refers to what you said: "largest possible audience". This includes all the "exceptions", such as blind users who need a readout on a braille line, or a synthesized speech output. You can, however, achieve this with "Flash", if you embed it correctly and maybe offer an alternative ("No 'Flash' version") of the content. The same is for using the alt= and longdesc= attributes in HTML for images. Okay, I will be honest: Nobody does this today anymore. Well... I do... but I'm completely mad. > Any intelligent business > plan would dictate that they therefore concentrate on the largest > possible audience. Let's say, the largest subset of the possible audience, that would be more correct. Web developers, as well as cretors of viruses and malware, rely on what the majority of PC users do use: "Windows" and "Flash". If this is present, fine. If not... "NO CONTENT FOR YOU! NEXT ONE!" :-) > This problem, like the nVidea 64 bit drivers, rests with FreeBSD. FreeBSD develops nVidia's GPUs and their drivers? I don't think so. For FreeBSD users there are two options on the side of nVidia: a) open up the devices and the drivers so the community can develop quality drivers b) develop quality drivers in-house and offer binary packages And of course, for the users: c) If it doesn't run on my OS, I don't buy it. FreeBSD's and X's sources are free, so it's easy to implement the drivers. Vice versa, it's not easy to develop drivers for a GPU that (FreeBSD's and X's) developers don't know enough about. According to "Flash", why would you think it's okay to require a proprietary plugin that is developed in a closed way and hooks SO DEEPLY into the system that it's that hard to implement? And when you think about the benefits of having such a plugin... sometimes you are glad that you can easily TURN IT OFF. Again the analogy for images: Sometimes, their use makes a web page ugly as sin and unreadable. Then I just switch the images off in Opera. I don't need a plugin from an arbitrary company to see PNG images, and know that this company does not offer such a plugin for my platform, and that the plugin for viewing PNG images hooks deeply into the system's kernel so there is no 100% usable free alternative of it. The day that "Flash" is an open standard and can be used the same way as PNG images in a web page (and through the means of a web browser), I will be glad to review my attitude. > You > simply cannot expect any software developer to develop and maintain a > product for what is in reality a niche OS. Well, I don't expect the software development company to do so. They have the change to make "Flash" a standard (by opening it). If they don't, it's okay, it is their right to do so. But then, a web developer can't expect me to buy an expensive PC with some "Windows" and a prone-to-abuse plugin of "Flash" just to see some advertisement or something else that every half-skilled web developer could easily implement with HTML, CSS and maybe JavaScript. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...