From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 23 14:51:25 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF5E916A4CE for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 14:51:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [66.93.134.19]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3EE843F3F for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 14:51:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (obrien@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hANMpLfY044066; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 14:51:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) id hANMpI2G044065; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 14:51:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 14:51:18 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: Tim Kientzle Message-ID: <20031123225117.GA24696@dragon.nuxi.com> Mail-Followup-To: David O'Brien , Tim Kientzle , richardcoleman@mindspring.com, dyson@iquest.net, masta@wifibsd.org, Dan Nelson , current@freebsd.org, imp@bsdimp.com References: <62981.24.0.61.35.1069202574.squirrel@mail.yazzy.org> <200311190103.hAJ13Nlg000923@dyson.jdyson.com> <20031119015433.GN30485@roark.gnf.org> <3FBC2053.6040208@mindspring.com> <20031120022009.GB29530@dan.emsphone.com> <3FBC29EF.3030009@mindspring.com> <3FBC50DB.3000002@acm.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3FBC50DB.3000002@acm.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.1-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD Group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 cc: richardcoleman@mindspring.com cc: masta@wifibsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org cc: dyson@iquest.net cc: Dan Nelson cc: imp@bsdimp.com Subject: Re: Unfortunate dynamic linking for everything X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: current@freebsd.org List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 22:51:26 -0000 > As I pointed out earlier, some of the heat here comes > from the fact that /bin/sh is currently overloaded: > > * It is the default system script interpreter, used > by the rc scripts and many other things. As such, > it must start quickly. > > * It is the default user shell for many users. As such, > it must support NSS. > > So far, I haven't seen anyone in this thread seriously > argue against either of these points. I'll seriously argue against the 2nd point above. I don't know of a SINGLE person that uses /bin/sh as their interactive shell when multi-user. Not ONE. Every Bourne shell'ish user I've ever met uses Bash, AT&T ksh, pdksh, zsh. > Richard Coleman wrote: > >It seems /bin/sh is the real sticking point. > > There is a problem here: Unix systems have historically used > /bin/sh for two somewhat contradictory purposes: > * the system script interpreter > * as a user shell > > The user shell must be dynamically linked in order > to support centralized administration. I personally > see no way around that. Given that many users do > rely on /bin/sh, it seems that /bin/sh must be > dynamically linked. > > There are good reasons to want the system script > interpreter statically linked. > > Maybe it's time to separate these two functions? I argue the two functions are already separated as /bin/sh as interactive shell doesn't really exist outside of single user. We should build /bin/sh static and be done with the argument. Or rather, lets find a /bin/sh interactive user and have him argue that /bin/sh needs NSS support. I dare say that will be a thread two orders of magnitude shorter than this one. -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org)