From owner-freebsd-mobile Wed Jan 3 11:25: 8 2001 From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 3 11:25:05 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4CD137B402 for ; Wed, 3 Jan 2001 11:25:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.1/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f03JP2l02593; Wed, 3 Jan 2001 12:25:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.1/8.8.3) with ESMTP id f03JP1114651; Wed, 3 Jan 2001 12:25:01 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200101031925.f03JP1114651@harmony.village.org> To: Will Andrews Subject: Re: pao 3.5.1 wicontol Cc: Randy Bush , "Michael C . Wu" , freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Jan 2001 13:49:17 EST." <20010103134916.O86630@argon.firepipe.net> References: <20010103134916.O86630@argon.firepipe.net> <20010103003212.A18784@pir.net> <20010103011054.C65492@peorth.iteration.net> <200101031755.f03HtEs31828@billy-club.village.org> <200101031811.f03IBss32215@billy-club.village.org> Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 12:25:01 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: imp@harmony.village.org Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <20010103134916.O86630@argon.firepipe.net> Will Andrews writes: : If you want substantiated complaining... PAO was a mistake in the first : place. It should've started as an effort in the main tree, NOT as a : maintained patchset. Of course, I don't really know the history behind : this, but that's my opinion regardless. PAO did a number of things right and a number of things wrong (like all projects do). There was reluctance to have it in the tree from the early days due to some of these issues. This reluctance lead to the nearly complete split from FreeSBD for laptop (and later a few other issues). That was mostly due to the fact that no one had the time it would have taken to shepard all those changes into the FreeBSD tree working with the PAO folks to resolve issues. It was a case of "no, I don't have anything better, but these are too hackish to be allowed into the tree." It has taken time to merge these changes back into FreeBSD, or have them be obsoleted by other fixes in the system. The PAO folks have taught the project many things about how to deal with code that might not be perfect, but is better than what we have (eg nothing). It has also taught us about many people issues and communications issues as well (and taught me a little Japanese to boot). Out of the PAO group came the newconfig project, which was a fiasco for FreeBSD public relations due to how that was handled, the language and cultural barriers, etc. So don't go bad mouthing PAO (more technically PAO3) when you don't know its history. There are still some things in PAO that aren't in -current, but that list grows much shorter every day. : Besides, when nobody's getting paid to help you here, what did you expect? I think that's a little over the top. He stated clearly that he was using PAO, that he wanted some help and that upgrading wasn't an option for his situation (I've worked with Randy in the past and understand where he's coming from). Since I do not use or know PAO, I can't help Randy with his problem today. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-mobile" in the body of the message