From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 2 06:44:32 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: questions@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DA2716A420 for ; Wed, 2 Nov 2005 06:44:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.web-strider.com [65.75.192.90]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A3A943D53 for ; Wed, 2 Nov 2005 06:44:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from tedwin2k (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.197.130]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id jA26lAb46312; Tue, 1 Nov 2005 22:47:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Steve Bertrand" Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 22:44:19 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <20051102012740.56CCB43D48@mx1.FreeBSD.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal Cc: 'FreeBSD Questions' Subject: RE: New Logo X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 06:44:32 -0000 >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org >[mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of Steve Bertrand >Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 5:28 PM >To: 'Greg 'groggy' Lehey' >Cc: 'FreeBSD Questions' >Subject: RE: New Logo > > >-- snip -- > >> That's correct, but we should recall that this is a mailing >> list to ask technical questions, not discuss logos or flame >> people. Discuss logos on the advocacy@ list; don't flame >> people on any list. > >I don't post here often, lest I ask a question, but I appreciate these >sorts of comments by people we 'observe' make reliable, wholesome and >always to-the-point-from-experience posts day in and day out. > >Keep the FBSD lists clean of flames. I haven't followed this entire >thread, but opinions about the new logo should go to advocacy. >However...there should be somewhere else where people can state their >political views to too. -questions is not that list. > Steve, the description for -questions is: "User questions AND technical support" A legitimate question is "What is all this logo change business about" particularly from a newbie. Would you rather the newbies get their information on this logo business from Slashdot? At least here we have a FreeBSD community involved. For the newbies that are indeed wondering what all this is about the summary is that about 9 months to a year ago, one of the major FreeBSD core committers got a bug up his ass because some jackass at a presentation he was making on FreeBSD asked "Why is the logo the Devil, is FreeBSD done by a bunch of devil-worshippers" Anyway, instead of simply looking at the questioner with an expression like "what kind of fucking moron are you" and ignoring it, or better yet using it as an opportunity to initiate a discussion of the rich UNIX history, this committer started making a horses-ass of himself on the mailing lists. Eventually, Robert Watson, or someone like that in the core, thought up the idea of the contest, with the philosophy that this was such a minor an unimportant issue that who gives a flying fuck about it, but a contest would at least shut up the people who were clamoring for Beastie to be booted off the webpage. Who knows, maybe they could come up with something pretty and at least we could get some mileage out of the artistic types. This issue is a textbook example of how a loud obnoxious intragent minority can get it's way. The majority of people in the Project, both users and committers, know that Beastie isn't the Devil, and know that it's useless to try to appease some religious fruitcake that Beastie isn't the Devil. To these people, the issue isn't that important. But to the right-wing religious nutcases, this is a life-or-death issue. Beastie must Go to Hell so that FreeBSD can be purged clean. These folks are UTTERLY convinced that once Beastie is given the boot, that people will flock to FreeBSD. So for the majority, it's easier to give way on a minor issue so they don't have to listen to the minority constantly harping on the hundreds if not thousands of users who are dropping FreeBSD right and left because they think we are devil-worshippers. That is why this logo change was pushed through without a vote on whether it was needed or not. The core group knew perfectly well that if they put it to a vote that the users would vote to leave things alone, ie: maintain status quo. But they also know that the right wingers with spittle flying off their chins about how terrible Beastie is, would not stop trying to burn Beastie on the stake, simply because the majority was against them. That is the definition of a fanatic - to ignore what the rest of the world is telling them. What gets me mad about this is the injection of religion into it. I am not opposed to fanatical minorities getting their ways at times. After all I'm for wiping Windows off the face of the Earth and replacing it with UNIXes. But while I may say that Bill Gates is the most immoral person on the planet for breaking the rules to illegally squash competition, I have never said that he is a devil-worshipper or a Scientologist, or some such. I think the people claiming we need to give Beastie the boot because people are religiously offended by devil images have crossed the line. Ted