From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 27 07:46:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA07242 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 27 Aug 1997 07:46:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kalypso.cybercom.net (kalypso.cybercom.net [209.21.136.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA07232 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 1997 07:46:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlanta (ksmm@world-f.std.com [199.172.62.5]) by kalypso.cybercom.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA02214 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:46:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970827104431.0097ce70@cybercom.net> X-Sender: ksmm@cybercom.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:44:31 -0400 To: chat@FreeBSD.org From: The Classiest Man Alive Subject: Re: ATT Unix for Windows ! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 11:55 PM 8/26/97 +0200, you wrote: >J Wunsch shared with us: >> As Peter Korsten wrote: >> >> [Visual C++, Makefiles, etc.] >> >> Of course, this is all my very personal opinion, but i'm sure quite a >> number of people feel the same. This might explain to the VC++ etc. >> users why there is so little `resonance' to IDE projects in a Unix >> world. Once you got used to the Unix way, you don't miss the Visual >> stuff. (Once you would be forced to return to that Visual stuff, >> after you've been used to the Unix way, i'm sure i would *hate* it.) > > [snip, snip] > >So the developers may like a text interface, many people don't. >And apart from all the marketing hype MS is creating, that's >something to be considered - though very hard to solve. What I've noticed is that the GUI environments tend to have easier learning curves, but that in the long run, command lines with terse commands and options tend to be more efficient for the experienced user. A good, simple example of this is trying to copy groups of files with a graphical file manager or a prompt. Finding out the options to recurse subdirectories and observe time modification stamps would probably take longer than dragging and dropping, but once you had the knowledge in your head, typing the command probably takes less time than all the clicking and dragging involved in the GUI approach. The mistake is in thinking that the two are mutually exclusive. Of course, this tends to create an attitude among very skilled programmers that you can't accomplish to much with a mouse; command lines are the only way to do *real* work. ("Why, back in my day, we didn't have no mamby-pamby pointers and icons. Just ones and zeroes...") Unfortunately, those most in need of a GUI interface (like me) don't have the skill to create one, and those who do believe that anybody serious about their craft doesn't need one. On a slightly related note, there also seems to be a lot of Microsoft player hating among UNIX-heads. Granted, there's not a lot of cutting edge technology coming out of Redmond, but MS has mastered a technique that most highly skilled programmers and shops are too proud to use--taking someone else's good idea, combining it with their great marketing, and taking ownership of the market. Rather than hating MS for bastardizing the technology, I say that we take whatever good concepts from them that we can and integrate it into out products. Use their own strategy against them. Of course, a few mil in the bank wouldn't hurt, but we'll just do what we can. :-) My two bits, K.S.