From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 1 14:04:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F8241065670 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 14:04:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from c.hutchinson0@yahoo.com) Received: from nm16-vm0.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com (nm16-vm0.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com [98.139.91.210]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 561C48FC08 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 14:04:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [98.139.91.66] by nm16.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2012 14:04:24 -0000 Received: from [208.71.42.211] by tm6.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2012 14:04:23 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp222.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2012 14:04:23 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1335881063; bh=pZQTGQzToSd6cKI59eUFFAFVLqU9u9HJSjp6Vi60zkE=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:X-Face:X-Mailer:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=KLKSkBgUNlYCEtBH8w/ZBiZ9EnnWSvY/6mKAUaoHEbrb7DAqJSUnA87vV2GVfFG8TbPwyOZZRSj+79BIMfy7DqvGSSd2vha+OVx6DuWT/7LKCSLRRgJ9Dzkl6XUEnLC45Aux8FhMeazvTB4seGTk44MrduiKj51H/2QjtMdkrLk= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 744542.92334.bm@smtp222.mail.gq1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: oxP_cfEVM1nJRS4mGIXUMIXgb5ivW8E79Acau9mjTh4OJyb jN2ZWzkBNXk.i8WIhWip41I861GmIiv8F6bSlkGEymgeDGJz89XEZMqOL5sf 738WrmVH..mI.NrmbaVNRI5z_J1gVDsunOVUBMHqQDfhWEDSIXMtcwzrvzSO FvolStwuEnRGLlF_1ke5J8QjBqOWJnKui7f30a75BTmQMDs9L.gJaIz4yUsJ HtOU0r02QQGTdTjxyDYAg8Kqx96QrAAdVIlHWNAb4ddvYacGaLYCbJGkya24 HcIKAUMxkbuCkP1r8hyK9CklTkUvCtNmNd31t9YxJcU5rA0lyzaxx36T7_i_ fAn7.h0_cdgLLzUyOchthsgrR554quIJ3hHunE6_CqsXxo6Rg.Wuj.piFkIn u X-Yahoo-SMTP: uW3vktqswBBwhzUUqSfIo9IQDlOyJjOVATmsCrk- Received: from virus.local (c.hutchinson0@107.61.1.117 with login) by smtp222.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 01 May 2012 07:04:22 -0700 PDT Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 07:04:14 -0700 From: c.hutchinson0@yahoo.com To: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Message-ID: <20120501070414.450ff252@virus.local> In-Reply-To: References: <092518C9B5214244805F7D2022A4F663@multiplay.co.uk> <1168656383.74335.1335567528359.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> <5E0882E0-405F-46AC-9290-8A195FECD2F4@gmail.com> <74720B93-61ED-4CA4-88C1-173356742F3A@gmail.com> X-Face: $mXi*82up^b>]TbwAyL%A8i^<*; noU6K:r#25QhoV@u[FYZ}`:LJ.g6+'oVI^|LuV~\+3i"#++*|t74; --SZKI/!BFCopG(kR$}T=J6uPma-=qk5ZhU#S">\hUKl{g((V7*MGgn>T~_cFs-UQU4b+o7Jiv Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 14:04:24 -0000 On Tue, 1 May 2012 09:26:30 +0200 (CEST) Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > > Joe user, students, etc really don't care about the underlying > > system as long as the GUIs obscure this. > Indeed you are right. Actually they don't completely know what > happens. This is normal, but the poor word in your sentence is > "students". Unfortunately, from my observations, this is completely > true. > > >OSX is a prime example of this (the OSX CLI has sucked for a long > >time). > > Only sysadmin and CLI power users care how things like this are > >organized. I think this is the usability boat that's been missed for > >a while on *nix. > > True. And my point is - don't promote FreeBSD in that area. Mac OS X, > Windows, "Modern" linux distros will always be "better" than FreeBSD > when judged by joe user who "owns" computer. > > Yes i used parantheses in "owns" because he/she don't really own her > computer, just paid for it and is enslaved. > > FreeBSD can be great when used by "joe user" BUT when joe user does > not install it, configure it or know root password at all, but > QUALIFIED sysadmin configured everything for joe. > > "Joe" may use thin client to connect to timesharing server with > FreeBSD and this is my favourite example. > > (actually i use X terminal made from obsolete PCs line pentium > 133-500MHz PII, which are intentionally downclocked and fans removed, > disks removed - SILENCE, low power). > > Even with trendy GUI (but configured by root user, not joe user) it > works quick, fast and predictable with cost of servicing close to > zero. > > This is right target for FreeBSD "advertising" IMHO, but not > "personal computer" market. > > Again i used parantheses for "personal computer" as for many years > users don't completely know what is going on on "their" computers and > are owned by them. I think "The power to serve", pretty much sums it up nicely. :-) > > > > Do you now finally understood what i mean and why i am against your > kind of "promotion"? > > You won't promote Ferrari for people that now use everyday small city > car. Inexperienced driver can only kill him/herself given top line > Ferrari, and trying to make Ferrari to by "easy to use" will badly > reduce it's performance. > > > > >> Solaris 11 was just an example of overadvertised things that are > >> just useless. Linux is "trendy" and quality is second thing, but > >> it had to be everywhere including things that should not have OS > >> at all, like VoIP gateway. > > > > Sun isn't Oracle, so I don't expect them to put forth a decent > > general purpose OS offering. As far as Linux is concerned, in some > > ways it's good Linux has become a niche OS, and in some ways it's > > bad, but you can't take back the fact that it is what it is right > > now. > While I know this probably seems pointless, based on your observation(s). I can't help but wonder if initiating a "BSD awareness day", might not be a bad idea. I can see where, if targeted at students, this might be especially effective -- this IS where BSD all started, wasn't it? :-) just my $0.02 :-) > Sun IS Oracle from some time. Right you are!. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"