From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 16 05:40:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4131A106564A for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2012 05:40:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-ie0-f182.google.com (mail-ie0-f182.google.com [209.85.223.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 006338FC08 for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2012 05:40:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iea17 with SMTP id 17so5217000iea.13 for ; Sat, 15 Sep 2012 22:40:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=YgnC2ADRs+bXjgKGm25RZed6EdcV583HiotcISC/eqM=; b=H3+KaLKGvpVXq1+CbZKuGWOPzlO1F5gCWEkoGRCHi9qr5tBghVwXGP5nyXzrzfiT+h d20sfy5wM5fTsauc5fQbM7t8x5AoCvgUtai4NybNkCExtbv7FtG7uWNrVMzlW/QaeaSf Ry/FpXcDD//XCXh4MEbOo2ojoxOJUeyEOnXELuI1jGeA7eoHIqzZ9C5DSjNxYf9HbKaC K/YnSwBtSzyR8JnXzSzVcRSBJDe03SluWumd67xFxKdVw61lIEPdu/YhPOtid6ZPW0mF SkwS1FCWy6JKUILG6/rp9adBgOd73O+MyP2FJVzsmoE+4vB5UBmeBpy2ycsJ8qYkgHkx SvEQ== Received: by 10.42.95.148 with SMTP id f20mr6148296icn.20.1347774039913; Sat, 15 Sep 2012 22:40:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 63.imp.bsdimp.com (50-78-194-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [50.78.194.198]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id va9sm3304809igb.17.2012.09.15.22.40.38 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 15 Sep 2012 22:40:38 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <20120916053523.GJ37286@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 23:40:37 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20120916053523.GJ37286@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> To: Konstantin Belousov X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQktwBiyXw2Doxq5c082uNoVzPvyNgNrYtvcuio9t/zN54JQeThTQVF4RzPMGzNHNoeaS8fU Cc: Eitan Adler , arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fallout from the CVS discussion X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 05:40:41 -0000 On Sep 15, 2012, at 11:35 PM, Konstantin Belousov wrote: > On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 04:37:49PM -0400, Eitan Adler wrote: >=20 > Removing the whole CVS discussion above, want to answer to seemingly > unrelated note in your email, which I see as continuing very = disturbing > trend. >=20 >> However, -CURRENT is not meant to be a production system. >=20 > It is simply not true. CURRENT shall never be knowingly put into a = state > where it cannot be used for the 'production-grade' use, whatever it > means. We do accept changes are so disruptive that some unknown = fallout > is expected, since otherwise developers cannot make any significant > progress. >=20 > But introducing known breakage is simply not acceptable. Doing so = shrinks > the already limited testing base we have for HEAD. That, in a nutshell, is why I've been beating on the 'we have to tie up = the loose ends we know about before pulling the trigger' drum... That = should be people's first thought before they make major changes in = FreeBSD. For a better handled thread, look at the clang discussions = when the warnings were sent out of the cut over. MANY things have come = to light in that discussion which were little known, and they should be = fixed... Warner