From owner-freebsd-questions Sat May 2 14:24:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA19307 for freebsd-questions-outgoing; Sat, 2 May 1998 14:24:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pollux.loco.net (lucy.bedford.net [206.99.145.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA19253 for ; Sat, 2 May 1998 14:24:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from listread@bedford.net) Received: (from listread@localhost) by pollux.loco.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA07625; Sat, 2 May 1998 17:04:35 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from listread) Message-Id: <199805022104.RAA07625@pollux.loco.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD on old equipment In-Reply-To: <004101bd75d7$db2b2c20$023aa8c0@kib.kib.net> from Jason at "May 2, 98 10:37:36 am" To: kib@poboxes.com Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 17:04:35 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG From: CyberPeasant Reply-To: djv@bedford.net X-no-archive: yes X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I have a rash of older equipment here and wanted to know how compatible > 2.2.5 or 2.2.6 is with older hardware and how well it will run if at all. I It'll run. Better than you think, too. 'BSD was /born/ on slower iron. 386+unix ~= 486+windoze, at least as far as 'feel' goes. The Unix file systems perform much much better that the lousy FAT one. (less disc thrashing). > have a rash of 386 boards with 2-16 megs of ram. Will FreeBSD be of any use > for on these sort of machines? I already decided that the 286s won't work > and need to hit the dump :) Save their cases, powersupplies, and add-on cards. A case is a case is a case. > Also...how much HD space is required to run the OS. For instance I have > several HDs under 100 megs. Can I use one of those HDs and setup a router > with on it? How much ram is needed? How much HD? How much Memory/CPU is > needed? > > I guess what I need to know is basic minimiums for FreeBSD. I would like to > run a Router that can IP alias for several machines over a Ethernet Internet > connection. Am I asking too much of this old hardware? They can probably handle this without overstraining. If the machines can be brought up without a lot of hassle or $, checking them out will be a day's work at most. > Thanks in advance > > Jason Cribbins I just last night installed 2.2.6 on a 386SX: 9MB memory 40MB harddrive. In this case, the /usr partition and the cdrom source were both NFS mounted from another machine. The trick is to get the /usr partition mounted. The normal install script doesn't seem to provide an easy hook to do this. [HELP? ] So what I did was: 0) install as usual, manually partitioning the IDE drive to have 13 MB for swap and 27MB for / 1) did "minimal install", which is just the "bin" stuff. 2) allowed it to fail when the / disk filled. 3) Over on virtual console 4, which now has some working utilities, rm -r /usr, then nfs mount the /usr partition from the server. 4) Install is asking, at this point, "Try again?" Sure, try again. This time it succeeds, of course. 5) After install is done (but before rebooting), return to vc 4, and manually edit /etc/fstab to include the nfs mount of /usr. 6) Other config stuff, to your own taste. 7) reboot, expect success. Experience with these 386[SD]X boards has led me to believe them quite capable of the task you mention. I wouldn't bother trying with less than 8MB of memory, although 4 is supposed to be the min. Note: you may well need 8MB to install... but can cut back to 4 later when the box is in production on some dedicated task. For a standalone system, (no nfs), I have shoehorned /NetBSD/ into a 68MB disk, with some swap and spare. I recommend using nfs /usr for installation, then manually paring it down later, and tar'ing it into the standalone partition -- all this after installing and reboot. An alternative is to link /usr to /dev/null during the install, if a pre-existing /usr will be nfs mounted later. I don't know if sysinstall will choke on this or not, but if it doesn't, it would be clever. This is from the 386SX just mentioned: [root@ishmael /root]# mount /dev/wd0s1a on / (local) procfs on /proc (local) pollux:/usr on /usr (read-only) <-- full bore /usr from a server pollux:/home on /home pollux:/home/IshmaelUsr on /mnt <-- the usr created during install [root@ishmael /root]# df -k Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/wd0s1a 27007 15337 9510 62% / procfs 4 4 0 100% /proc pollux:/usr 508655 217253 250710 46% /usr pollux:/home 1012976 448366 483572 48% /home pollux:/home/IshmaelUsr 1012976 448366 483572 48% /mnt [root@ishmael /root]# cd /mnt [root@ishmael /mnt]# du -k -s 35752 . [root@ishmael /mnt]# So it looks like I got away with 15M / + 36M /usr + 13M swap = 64MB total disk usage. If you've got the spare mem, try to avoid swapping on these old turkey disks, unless you're nostalgic. 16M is nice, but I have had 386 mobos choke on 4MB simms. The IshmaelUsr install partition is as it was after the installation, I.e., no manual paring has been done, so it still contains static libs, perl, /usr/share, /usr/include, all the timezones, and so on. Note, this drive is an IDE. If you have old MFM or ESDI drives, then it gets more complicated: you will want to use the bad144 utility to reserve space for and mark bad blocks on the drive. This can be omitted, only at your peril. The install floppy does have bad144 on it, but I do not know if the sysinstall will stop at the right point for you to run it. [Yet, hehheh. That 68MB disk with NetBSD on it is MFM, and is scheduled to be installed with Freebsd real soon now.] My advice on MFM drives is to use them only if you are into antiques. I get a definite satisfaction hearing that old Seagate 4096 clunk around running BSD, though. After a lifetime of DOSing, the old gentleman deserves something dignified in his declining years. If you have some benchmark or whatever that you'd like to see on the 386SX, (or a 386DX/33) contact me off-list. I have run a 386DX/33 as an nfs server (/home partitions) for about a year, over 10Base2 ethernet, and am satisfied with its performance. As an X font server, though, it bogged down. Only one user, though, so YMMV. Pointer: old BIOS suck worse than new ones, so expect trouble with large drives, dual booting, or other tricks. Stick with "whole disk for BSD", and your problems will be smaller. Some old BIOS won't boot without a keyboard or monitor. Put those ones in the dumpster, unless you don't mind that restriction. Old Phoenix BIOS suck worst, I think. Pointer: disable any kind of cute shadowing rubbish in the BIOS; 386's almost always have some kludged DOS-accommodating trash turned on, even the stupid "Expanded Memory (LIM EMS)" stuff. Go for a vanilla BIOS setup. Enable A20 line. Pointer: 386s really like cache memory (0K on the chip). Many old mobos will take 256K of cache. Consider doing this later, if the machine checks out otherwise. Another use: old boxes make good things for kids. A kid will learn more "about computers" in a month on a 386+Unix, than in a year with a Windoze P5 nickelodeon. A friend's 12-year-old is almost ready to be given root. They can surf da net with lynx, if they have to. Dave -- <----. mailto/pgpfinger: djv@bedford.net <----|=================================== <----' Crathva fxrjre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message