From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Dec 10 20:44:40 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A3BEE9B773 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 20:44:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from baho-utot@columbus.rr.com) Received: from cdptpa-cmomta01.email.rr.com (cdptpa-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.166.232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 41B062922 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 20:44:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from baho-utot@columbus.rr.com) Received: from raspberrypi.bildanet.com ([65.186.81.207]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id O8PdeU0p1fiK5O8PfeAMGp; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 20:41:28 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.143] by raspberrypi.bildanet.com with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1eO8Sc-0008MP-3R; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 20:44:30 +0000 Subject: Re: New packaging approach To: doug@safeport.com Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <07f48e07-ce70-7a26-ea19-fd389375afb4@columbus.rr.com> From: Baho Utot Message-ID: <1c6fbb48-6029-2d93-8fff-675ef800b3c2@columbus.rr.com> Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 15:44:24 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfJYKATgGC4gktX4mWEp7lZamIcuuzQ04L1+jTzEuozWFfgQK8Jr1luF/MT99M5mUI9AQbnNkdBTZciOH/sW6Z2MWpqeE+dSt6YaE9pWivwFM60ZtZJG5 ZvS2FdJ8+5hqqSk5Peq5GjAy/E4ldoquQWc+3FORfftXj2t3l6m1tXIGjj29+p1i60+eXB1FCn9Ynd7iA4qZawFrYFyFwjGZa6L6pOTocz3GNDYE/wlpWR6/ X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 20:44:40 -0000 On 12/10/2017 1:54 PM, doug wrote: > > On Sun, 10 Dec 2017, Baho Utot wrote: > >> On 12/10/2017 12:33 AM, DTD wrote: >>> >>> On Sat, 9 Dec 2017, Polytropon wrote: >>> >>>> However, I am not sure how the new packaging approach will handle >>>> this. As you might have read, pkg will be used for installing and >>>> upgrading OS files in the future, so there will not be the big >>>> difference "freebsd-update" and "pkg update" / "pkg upgrade". >>> >>> Where can I read about this? If this leads to dependency issues >>> similar to those encountered with desktops, my reaction is more of >>> 'oh s--t' rather then 'oh boy'. Back to the days when the odd or >>> even versions numbers were for those of us (read me) who do not >>> track Stable for similar reasons. >>> >> >> The way the packaging of base is currently being done will*guarantee >> a great level of OH SHIT. > > First, I will qualify my comments by saying I am an end user. I did > take Kurt McKusick's internals course a decade or so ago. Never ended > up going anywhere with C but it was/is a good way to understand the > workings and to be a better sysadmin. My experience with FreeBSD is > that once release engineering was fully integrated into the upgrade > process in the 4.x's, maybe the version 5 era (memory goes shortly > after the tolerance for coding 12 hrs/day) I have never had any issues > through cvsup, Subversion, and freebsd-update. If you follow the > releases, they work. Maybe if you are developing a port or are a > contributor to the base, things are not so rosy. But here in userland > things are better managed than IBM did with MFT, MVT into MVS. I'm > pretty sure those guys got paid pretty well and did not have to have a > day job to do what they really wanted to. > > That's a really wordy way to say I disagree with the idea that > development of the base OS has been mis-handled. In server-land since > 4.5 no gotcha's here (as a keeper of servers). Things are a bit > rougher if you want to run a FreeBSD workstation. On my current > desktop I have gimp, libre office and my window manager of choice. 613 > packages and items built from ports. The pkg frame-work is much > improved over the old pkg_add et all. However, the number of > combinations of {613,n} where n is the number of shared libraries, > dynamic and static is a large number (finite but unbounded). And all > involved have to get all the dependencies right to have zero problems. > > My concern is, if it works don't fix it. And, if you must, I would > like to start getting up to speed on it ASAP. I have access to every > freebsd list but have not found a discussion of this. My only request > is to be pointed to where I can follow the discussion. Have you ever used the "packaged base" If not you don't have a clue to just how bad it is