From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Jan 24 23:53:39 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 113032282C1 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2020 23:53:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ihor@antonovs.family) Received: from mail.antonovs.family (mail.antonovs.family [100.25.240.195]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 484GDx48QDz3F5V for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2020 23:53:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ihor@antonovs.family) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.antonovs.family (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67D1A138A48; Fri, 24 Jan 2020 23:53:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.antonovs.family ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.antonovs.family [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id dkyjSjUHv-WC; Fri, 24 Jan 2020 23:53:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.antonovs.family (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18E3E138A5E; Fri, 24 Jan 2020 23:53:36 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 mail.antonovs.family 18E3E138A5E DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=antonovs.family; s=D65AA412-CB7F-11E9-A561-802C9D403B77; t=1579910016; bh=NcmK53tKQX7/MewFgbj/EItWrMi73S1ly65w6UnGKNE=; h=Date:From:To:Message-ID:MIME-Version; b=ebSeGSHay68FRdA26zBwxIcKCHRHC8k0obX/1lMF9i6rV4chrip5TXLaskn7A1UAF 2asA2elTBFJPXupxKhvz7da6wMkyQpkKEMXvID+fkmEp72PVCWnzRzPuHWRDcp/JA7 UTL6QqPozFxQ9w9wbH2EN6SPcONpmxHzHJTR1eOKzmmTE3vfpw5BD8IeFgvqOV3vUt 8Y1hA4vbLgjy9cEt3QHisYXteEjz8XTS3OKV4DTVV5ukAH71TbbPEfYbT4b7tnSnyi zgUb/Pk09+xoF8uIrLPDIgVEpxcVy1RsmrBnZD4bsPNu4kqZc8zRxo+gkmEhIX6GVg GB52FR+gv1wyQ== X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at antonovs.family Received: from mail.antonovs.family ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.antonovs.family [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id xfps-qowfXRa; Fri, 24 Jan 2020 23:53:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.antonovs.family (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.antonovs.family (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8D13138A48; Fri, 24 Jan 2020 23:53:35 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 23:53:35 +0000 (UTC) From: Ihor Antonov To: Polytropon Cc: Michael Sierchio , Steve O'Hara-Smith , freebsd-questions Message-ID: <1678077549.5929.1579910015816.JavaMail.zimbra@antonovs.family> In-Reply-To: <20200125003136.a1485866.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <775662956.5865.1579896175788.JavaMail.zimbra@antonovs.family> <20200124221319.d4e7fa438cbb1f30da10af2d@sohara.org> <20200125003136.a1485866.freebsd@edvax.de> Subject: Re: Rust in base MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Originating-IP: [10.193.1.27] X-Mailer: Zimbra 8.8.12_GA_3866 (ZimbraWebClient - FF68 (Linux)/8.8.12_GA_3844) Thread-Topic: Rust in base Thread-Index: RmsiNt+Tu5e0MEZrrK2VTuBiWmhLkw== X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 484GDx48QDz3F5V X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=antonovs.family header.s=D65AA412-CB7F-11E9-A561-802C9D403B77 header.b=ebSeGSHa; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=antonovs.family; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ihor@antonovs.family designates 100.25.240.195 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ihor@antonovs.family X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.76 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[antonovs.family:s=D65AA412-CB7F-11E9-A561-802C9D403B77]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-2.76)[ip: (-7.54), ipnet: 100.24.0.0/13(-3.16), asn: 14618(-3.04), country: US(-0.05)]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[antonovs.family:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[antonovs.family,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:14618, ipnet:100.24.0.0/13, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 23:53:39 -0000 > >=20 > > > On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 20:02:55 +0000 (UTC) Ihor Antonov > > > wrote: > > > > > > > So there are 2 questions: - technical one: how bootstrapping issue = can > > > > be solved? - what does FreeBSD community think of the idea to have > > > > Rust in base? > > > > > > Some years back a great deal of work was done to remove perl = from > > > the base so adding Rust (or anything else) would be a step ba= ck. > > > An old BSD goal is that base should be just enough to be self > > > hosting and be BSD (removing the traditional games from the b= ase > > > took some discussion). > > > > > > > > As a fellow embedded guy, +1 to what Steve says. Even things in the "B= ase" > > should probably have package db entries so they can be removed. > > Target systems don't necessarily need a compiler or a full tool chain. > > Then we can converge on a consensus set of basic tools that most people > > will need, with the opportunity to remove them =E2=80=93 rather than cr= eating a > > mini/micro/nano-FreeBSD > I just hope it doesn't bring us the "joy" known from Linux land where a > failed update (in this context: of application software, here: installed > ports / packages) will render the whole system unusable beyong recovery..= . > "even the kernel is a package". ;-) Thanks your for replies,=20 I have probably mixed different things into one bag. Base should be as minimalist / configurable as people need. If you are doing embedded indeed= you don't need toolchain on your target system, all you need is the binary code that does exactly and only what you need. What I meant is probably not "bring rust into base", but more like "allow Rust(or Oberon, or any other language that fits the purpose) software in th= e lower levels of the system", without compromising flexibility/configuration= of the system. And breaking base into smaller packages would help greatly here= . > That is a "longer term goal", but development is heading into the directi= on > of making the base OS more modular, and finally abandoning freebsd-update= in > favor of "pkg for base". It would enable FreeBSD to become even more suit= able > for "specialized applications" where you intendedly want a minimal or > tailored footprint of the OS. Polytropon, can you share elaborate on this? Who is doing this? How can one participate in this effort? Thanks, Ihor