From owner-freebsd-questions Wed Jun 19 20:39:13 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCCAE37B40A for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 20:39:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hades.hell.gr (patr530-a130.otenet.gr [212.205.215.130]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g5K3csqK018807; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 06:38:56 +0300 (EEST) Received: from hades.hell.gr (hades [127.0.0.1]) by hades.hell.gr (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g5K3csdv061863; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 06:38:54 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from charon@localhost) by hades.hell.gr (8.12.4/8.12.4/Submit) id g5K3cpMD061862; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 06:38:51 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@FreeBSD.org) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 06:38:51 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Ken McGlothlen Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: rhetorical-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20020620033851.GA61731@hades.hell.gr> References: <20020619103048.28997.h003.c015.wm@mail.compgeek.com.criticalpath.net> <87u1ny99ot.fsf@ralf.artlogix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="CE+1k2dSO48ffgeK" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87u1ny99ot.fsf@ralf.artlogix.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --CE+1k2dSO48ffgeK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On 2002-06-19 15:37 +0000, Ken McGlothlen wrote: > "Jon Noack" writes: > > > Okay, 4.6-RELEASE has been out for what, a few days? And it was > > > released with broken PPPOE code in the kernel source. There's a > > > documented bug. So why hasn't it been fixed in CVS yet for > > > relang_4_6? The branch is called RELENG_4_6. Capitalized, and "RELENG". > > If it's bothering you so much why don't you fix it? Seriously. > > [...] This is a bit blunt but is still true. > I can think of no better way to marginalize FreeBSD than support > responses like that. You are probably right. However, let us not be hasty in the exchange of bitter, angry words, and wait a little until the security officers have a bit of time to send the advisory. I see that my mailbox for freebsd-announce now has the security announcement you have asked for. It was effectively being written while you were posting :-) The people who are involved on a -RELEASE are not only the developers of FreeBSD but the dozens of users who have tried and tested their favorite packages. If in this -RELEASE you find that some package you are using does not work as expected, you could always help the release engineering team in a few months that the next release will come out. Your assistance is very important, and valuable. Before the release happens you can use the -RC (release candidate) versions of FreeBSD, and see if they break anything that is deemed important by you. In that case, a simple bug report is usually enough to get you credits for being an "honourable bugbuster", and a bug report that includes a solution is a sure way to the "hall of eternal fame" :P I'm not sure if this was meant by the original posted, or if it was the specific words that he chose to put his thoughts to that has offended you, but it all boils down to: You can help us all, developers & users alike, by assisting in the process of the next release, with feedback that enables the developers roll out a release of higher quality, that includes more packages, less bugs; a release that you will feel all warm and fuzzy inside, knowing that it contains parts that you have played a major part in. As far as the security bugs in Apache or other ports are concerned, aren't you being a bit too paranoid now? Yes, I know that 4.6-RELEASE cdroms will include a buggy version of Apache. But by now, so do the cdroms of 3.2-RELEASE that I had bought years ago and all the rest that are in between. Third-party software (because ports are just that... software that is maintained by vendors that are neither you, the user of the FreeBSD system, nor the developers of FreeBSD) are not under the control of the release engineers. It is obvious that a program that is externally maintained might have bugs that the users or developers of FreeBSD do not know about, until the very last minute. You will probably agree with me that trying to roll a RELEASE that includes 7000+ packages, while starting over again and again, if a single one of them is found to be buggy a few days after[1] the official announcement of the release, is NEVER going to end... Cheers, - Giorgos [1] The bug that you seem to have been annoyed about was announced on bugtraq *AFTER* the release of FreeBSD 4.6-RELEASE. By that time, the long process of organising a release, of coordinating the developers, of fixing bugs, and finally rolling the CDROM iso images had finished. The release engineers could not restart the whole thing, which lasted well over a month, just because a few packages happened to be found buggy a few days after the release. Programs are found to be flawed every single day. Bugs are fixed constantly. Security announcements are sent out right after any important thing is found. The development of FreeBSD goes on. Do you want to help? Then, by all means do. Maybe next time a bug is found, you can hunt it down and kill the damned thing before the release is out :) --CE+1k2dSO48ffgeK Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE9EU5K1g+UGjGGA7YRAhIMAKC5hVUdUFishWIw4+mPWjcKC7wyawCgpTaO WPfN9OzgoAe9HHswESfebRg= =GS9v -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --CE+1k2dSO48ffgeK-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message