From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 11 04:06:26 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D523C04; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 04:06:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kob6558@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ee0-f54.google.com (mail-ee0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 897728FC08; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 04:06:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ee0-f54.google.com with SMTP id c13so2388321eek.13 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2012 20:06:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=OskD0c6I/KAiwSy5tf6iWRKzeteEbIBb5hCKDXk3deE=; b=WooHcPhoSZppX3ae1lgTYYs+t7Pc73cA3nNywTyjXsejzREILIBE2xa7cUwyMaJJAP kmKa1HiO5cf3V2FV0uptH0A7IF1qlFvq2bfw3Eeu9Ic11i7iWlptibmAP4Jal4Nk5MqJ yR03AxzCrK6xxNtQ7bC0qoKZZoZHTlJg28HV0ztGJe3452lAAt5ta+g2zjWXzCEUscdZ mTw9PG50XW67BPOgd7h8/FQ5iBeESAzVVFRKtbKVRQpuDS/1EL3+k04vcT4G/+4DYJmr MA7iLFgXMLvnRumpvqblGsDppIVrgg5Mwlg95iVFkYKq6JDY+CJeYQrVP5iYytly9rcO VpAw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.14.204.198 with SMTP id h46mr48223659eeo.1.1355198784479; Mon, 10 Dec 2012 20:06:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.223.170.193 with HTTP; Mon, 10 Dec 2012 20:06:24 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201212102352.QAA09737@lariat.net> References: <201212090318.UAA11257@lariat.net> <50C4A341.9070903@FreeBSD.org> <201212092031.NAA17017@lariat.net> <201212092215.PAA17770@lariat.net> <201212101735.KAA02736@lariat.net> <201212102352.QAA09737@lariat.net> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 20:06:24 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Will we get a RELEASE-9.1 for Christmas? From: Kevin Oberman To: Brett Glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: Adrian Chadd , stable@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 04:06:26 -0000 On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 3:52 PM, Brett Glass wrote: > At 04:29 PM 12/10/2012, Adrian Chadd wrote: > >> There's politics in every organisation. There are ego clashes in every >> organisation. Sometimes you'll fit in, sometimes you won't. If you >> feel there are issues, find people inside the community who you do get >> along well with and talk with them about it. >> >> It sucks, yes. I'm one of those "shut up and code already" types and I >> deal badly with politics. > > > Me, too. That's why I have been contributing code quietly through others > rather than putting myself out in the front lines. > > In any event -- back to the original topic -- there should indeed be better > communications between the Release Engineering team and the community. > The time it takes to post updates -- especially as it gets close to release > time -- would be recovered many times over because folks like me wouldn't > have any need to e-mail regarding status and projected schedules. ;-) I whole-heatedly agree... but I know a little about release engineering for a large project, especially when the release team is unpaid and has to honor commitments to $real_job. Release engineering is very detail-oriented and unforgiving. This is not really compatible with part-time work. The RE must be focused, first ans foremost, on getting a release out the door as quickly as possible and not to have any serious problems with that release. This makes it very had to pull bakc and make announcements or even update posted schedules. That is made even worse by hte desire to make such communication accurate or at least useful. Since there is a LOT of guessing involved in pulling together a release (how long will "Joe" take to fix this problem or why are there half a dozen reports of a serious issue with the RC, when no one else can reproduce it or even figure out what part of the system is causing it), RE folks are usually reticent about trying to give out any information since it will most likely be inaccurate. This is why I accept the line that it will be released when it is ready. I really think it's about ready, but not even the head of the 9.1 RE team KNOWS when it will be ready, even if the ISO builds are started. "There is many a slip twixt the cup and the lip." -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer E-mail: kob6558@gmail.com