From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 9 18:23:08 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FE9F16A4CE for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 18:23:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.192.90]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B99A543D45 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 18:23:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from tedwin2k (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.197.130]) i99IN1q97287; Sat, 9 Oct 2004 11:23:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 11:23:01 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal cc: questions@freebsd.org Subject: RE: What version of FBSD does Yahoo run? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 18:23:08 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > [mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of TM4525@aol.com > Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 10:07 AM > To: tedm@toybox.placo.com > Cc: questions@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: What version of FBSD does Yahoo run? > > > In a message dated 10/9/04 12:56:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > tedm@toybox.placo.com writes: > >"I just hope that pounding packets through a socket and > >timing mySQL selects aren't the entirety of OUR team's arsenal." > > >And it's not just this sentence although this is one of the most > >blatent. You are using verbage and terminology that clearly sets > >you in opposition to the rest of us, users and developers, of FreeBSD. > >If this isn't a challenge you don't know the meaning of the word. > Maybe you think its a "challenge" because the words have teeth? > > Who is "the rest of us" in your estimation? Anyone who uses FreeBSD. Anyone who contributes to FreeBSD obviously has to use it. And, even people standing on the street and throwing rocks - if they are doing it with knowledge, such as pointing out SPECIFIC issues - they are contributing to FreeBSD. Someone standing out on the sidewalk who has never run a FreeBSD release and knows little about it, who wants to throw rocks, he's not contributing. > Those under the thumb of > wind river, or those of us trying to run small business who would prefer > not to be bamboozled into using something "new" because you need > free testers for your code? Nobody is forcing anyone to use any "new" FreeBSD. You can use FreeBSD 3.X or FreeBSD 2.X or even FreeBSD 1.X if you can find it, that is. Many people have CD's of the old FreeBSD versions who will make them available on the Internet. You want to run FreeBSD 1.1.5.1? I have it on a QIC tape somewhere if you really want to. > I monitored this list for months,and I never > once heard any one of "you" tell anyone that 4.x was a better choice > if running your business with the most efficient current solution was > your goal. Why should we? The instructions that tell you to use FreeBSD 4.X are right in the release itself! Haven't you seen this web page: http://www.freebsd.org/releases/5.2.1R/early-adopter.html I quote: "the Release Engineering Team specifically discourages users from updating from older FreeBSD releases to 5.2.1-RELEASE" These instructions are in every FreeBSD 5.X CD. Why are you blaming us if you cannot be bothered to read instructions? > You don't care about the "freeBSD community", you care > about your own agenda, whoever "you" are. If you're not going to be > honest with the community, then there's going to be a separation of > "you" with the agenda and "us" with the need for honest answers to > our questions so that we can run our businesses effectively. > OK so now your trying to say there's an "us" out there on the sidewalk throwing rocks with you. I got news for you, there ain't no "us" out there. There's just "you" I won't deny that some perhaps less-experienced FreeBSD users that are on the list are coming at it from the Microsoft mentality that everything older than 3 months is crap, and we all gotta run out there and buy the latest version of Windows/Office/Crapola software that is on sale. But nobody with any real experience who has been working with FreeBSD for any length of time will tell you to ashcan all your FreeBSD 4.X servers and go to 5.X immediately. They might tell you to not run FreeBSD 3.X - if you haven't installed all the security patches, of which there are an enormous number now. But there is no reason to abandon an older FreeBSD 4.X server if it is working fine for you, as long as you keep whatever portions of it are exposed to the Internet, patched with current patches. > I love freeBSD. I have the skills to get my own answers as to the > suitability of one OS or one version to another. Most people on this > list don't. So don't steer them to 5.x when you know its not yet ready > for prime time, because people rely on you to give good, honest > answers in order to earn a living. I don't blindly steer people to FreeBSD 5.X In fact, officially I say the following on my website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com/faq/verstouse.html If someone on-list or via private e-mail asks me about going to 5.X I will ask them what their needs are and base my reply on that. If they tell me they are a small business that needs ONE server and has an extra PC I will tell them to use 4.X - my book is aimed at that group. If they are a medium sized business that has 10 or so servers I will tell them to use 4.X for their most critical stuff but that they need to start using 5.X on some of their stuff to get up to speed on it. And if they are a Yahoo-sized business with programmers on staff specifically tasked to optimize whatever OS they are running I will tell them they need to be running all 5.X and they need to be working closely with the development team members, not me. And there are mailing lists specifically for that group. FreeBSD 5.X ain't going to reach prime time if everyone sits around waiting for it to get to prime time. Obviously you don't steer someone who is inexperienced and who only has time for 1 system and only for the administration of it, not debugging, to 5.X But if someone does have the experience or wants to have the experience, and they have multiple systems able to run it (which is easy enough with Pentium 200's going for under $10 on the used market these days) then they need to be running 5.X on at least 1 system. Ted