From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 5 10:27:54 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72A0716A41F for ; Sat, 5 Nov 2005 10:27:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.web-strider.com [65.75.192.90]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB1AE43D45 for ; Sat, 5 Nov 2005 10:27:53 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from tedwin2k (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.197.130]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id jA5AUbb64170; Sat, 5 Nov 2005 02:30:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Greg Barniskis" , "Jim Pazarena" Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 02:27:44 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <436AA389.9010803@scls.lib.wi.us> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: RE: New Logo X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 10:27:54 -0000 >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org >[mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of Greg Barniskis >Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 3:56 PM >To: Jim Pazarena >Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org >Subject: Re: New Logo > > > >If the process gets reversed based on the fervent outcry of a small >number of people who think they have somehow been disenfranchised, >that would be just as silly as the oft-repeated "this whole thing >was done to please offended right-wingers" argument. > No, it just puts us back to square one again, whereupon we can do it right by having a vote on whether or not it needs to be changed. If the userbase voted for creating a logo and replacing Beastie with it, nobody would be complaining. >There was a process (seems to me it was a fair process), it's over, >and some factions lost, particularly the "don't change anything" >faction. A disingenuous argument if there was one - the "don't change anything" faction lost as soon as the process came into being, because the existence of the process predicated a change. This is like when the US president claims the US needs to keep putting fresh troops into Iraq because the deaths of the previous soldiers would be in vain if it pulled out and the country collapsed. Nowhere in that argument is the point that maybe the US should not have ever gone in to begin with. Implied in that argument is "we fucked up and we are going to fix it by continuing to fuck up" exactly as you are arguing here. The problem was there was no fair process that established that a process for change was ever needed to begin with. None of the "don't change anything" faction has issue with how the contest itself operated, the issue is the decision to have a contest to begin with. >(b) did not participate in the process except to heartily denounce >the very existence of the process and its goal Well of course - since what established the need for the existence of the process to begin with? A bunch of ass-umptions of a small number of people. >(c) even now outright refuse to go and be part of the advocacy@ >community where this discussion is germane to that list charter You mean, like your doing here? > >Biggest. Bike. Shed. Ever. > If you don't care, why are you joining the discussion? It is facinating how many people feel the need to jump in to this thread, loudly proclaiming it's completely unimportant and there is a big problem because it's not going away. When will those folks understand that their jumping in is keeping the thread going? If you -really- feel it's a bikeshed discussion, then your silence speaks louder than words. Methinks the maiden doth protest too much. Ted