From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 14 15:47:47 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4313B16A400 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 15:47:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sean@cyberwang.net) Received: from sumo.dreamhost.com (sumo.dreamhost.com [66.33.216.29]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26E9213C458 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 15:47:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sean@cyberwang.net) Received: from spunkymail-a7.g.dreamhost.com (sd-green-bigip-208-97-132-81.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.81]) by sumo.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C734187132 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 08:25:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (68-184-120-224.dhcp.smyr.ga.charter.com [68.184.120.224]) by spunkymail-a7.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2C865C334; Mon, 14 May 2007 08:25:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <46487F57.1010205@cyberwang.net> Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 11:25:11 -0400 From: Sean Bryant User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?UTF-8?B?RGFnLUVybGluZyBTbcO4cmdyYXY=?= References: <20070512004209.GA12218@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <17989.8202.624522.136573@bhuda.mired.org> <20070512090935.GA13929@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <86r6pkzhso.fsf@dwp.des.no> <46479A4A.1070103@tomjudge.com> <86wszbyko7.fsf@dwp.des.no> <000401c79601$2c4372e0$84ca58a0$@Sparrevohn@btinternet.com> <17992.26100.876067.671769@bhuda.mired.org> <861whjscbd.fsf@dwp.des.no> In-Reply-To: <861whjscbd.fsf@dwp.des.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: 'Tom Judge' , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Thomas.Sparrevohn@btinternet.com, Mike Meyer , 'Michel Talon' Subject: Re: DPS Initial Ideas X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 15:47:47 -0000 Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Mike Meyer writes: > >> You may want to look at some other Linux distros. The packages system >> dates to about the same era as rpm/debs. The package system is much, >> much more manageable than them. On the other hand, most Linux distros >> have moved beyond those tools, to things like yum, apt-get and >> up2date. Those incorporate the facilities that rpm and debs are >> missing in a higher-level tool, and I think they are slightly more >> manageable than freebsd packages. >> >> As far as I know, none of them handle updates from source at all. In >> fact, dealing with sources seems to be a noticable weakness for them. >> > > apt-get --build source > > DES > I'm just going to interject here, I apologize if this is out of place. I've been following the threads on SQLite in the base for ports and the DPS initial ideas threads. Kris has stated it would be wise to actually list out the problems with the current ports / packaging systems and I fully agree. As right now its a bunch of back and forth bickering with no real solution in sight because those proposing solutions don't have a full understanding what it takes to change the systems, and those who do are really reluctant to adopt such changes due to their limited focus and maybe even the developers experience. I propose someone post on the wiki (http://wiki.freebsd.org/) the current issues with the ports and packaging systems so that everyone can get a better understanding of the problems that need to be solved. This could possibly help the SoC student improve the system by giving him a clearer picture of what's wrong. This could also help lead a more unified initiative to improve the systems and prevent adding new issues to the system. Prototyping a solution when the problems are known is much easier than stabbing at the problem in the dark.