From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 8 18:17:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackers@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB7DD16A400 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 18:17:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers.102a7e@mired.org) Received: from mired.org (dsl092-153-074.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.153.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 599C543D45 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 18:17:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers.102a7e@mired.org) Received: (qmail 60430 invoked by uid 1001); 8 Apr 2006 18:17:25 -0000 Received: by localhost.mired.org (tmda-sendmail, from uid 1001); Sat, 08 Apr 2006 14:17:24 -0400 (EDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <17463.65076.117616.563302@bhuda.mired.org> Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 14:17:24 -0400 To: Scott Long In-Reply-To: <4437C9F6.5000008@samsco.org> References: <20060407225742.GA21619@odin.ac.hmc.edu> <20060407230247.GH16344@submonkey.net> <4437C9F6.5000008@samsco.org> X-Mailer: VM 7.17 under 21.4 (patch 19) "Constant Variable" XEmacs Lucid X-Primary-Address: mwm@mired.org X-face: "5Mnwy%?j>IIV\)A=):rjWL~NB2aH[}Yq8Z=u~vJ`"(,&SiLvbbz2W`; h9L,Yg`+vb1>RG% *h+%X^n0EZd>TM8_IB;a8F?(Fb"lw'IgCoyM.[Lg#r\ X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.0.3 (Seattle Slew) From: Mike Meyer Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Ceri Davies Subject: Re: Using any network interface whatsoever X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 18:17:27 -0000 In <4437C9F6.5000008@samsco.org>, Scott Long typed: > Well, the real question is why we force the details of driver names onto > users. Network and storage drivers are especially guilty of this, but > tty devices also are annoying. Because Unix has always made the hardware details available to administrators. Times have changed so that users now need to do things that used to be restricted to administrators. This historical behavior is a *good* thing. If all devices of type "foo" are just named "foo" and assigned numbers by the system, then I have no control over the names. If I don't care which is which, this isn't a problem. If I do care - for instance, I want to distinguish between the ethernet interface that's on the internet and the one that's on my LAN, or I want root to be on the disk with the root file system on it - then this is a PITA, because every time I add hardware to the system, or re-arrange the cards in the cage, or similar things, I risk breaking the system configuration. If the device names are completely determined by the hardware settings, then this doesn't happen. Real world examples of this type of breakage include a FreeBSD 4.x system with SCSI disks that failed to boot when a USB mass storage device was plugged into it, and a Solaris system that started swapping on it's Ingres raw database partition after a disk was added. If a system is meant for desktop use where you typically have at most one of anything, then hiding the names from the users is a good thing. In a server environment, where you may have multiple instances of several different device types, then being able to easily tell which is which is a good thing. http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information.