From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 30 19:35:00 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 649601065670 for ; Sat, 30 May 2009 19:35:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chuckr@telenix.org) Received: from mail3.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail3.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 346C28FC0C for ; Sat, 30 May 2009 19:34:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chuckr@telenix.org) Received: (qmail 13377 invoked from network); 30 May 2009 19:34:59 -0000 Received: from april.chuckr.org (HELO april.telenix.org) (chuckr@[66.92.151.30]) (envelope-sender ) by mail3.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 30 May 2009 19:34:59 -0000 Message-ID: <4A218A98.4@telenix.org> Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 15:35:52 -0400 From: Chuck Robey User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090121) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wojciech Puchar References: <200905281030.n4SAUXdA046386@banyan.cs.ait.ac.th><200905280847.12966.kirk@strauser.com><200905280904.44025.kirk@strauser.com><20090528183801.82b36bbb.freebsd@edvax.de> <70C0964126D66F458E688618E1CD008A0793EDE2@WADPEXV0.waddell.com> <70C0964126D66F458E688618E1CD008A0793EDE6@WADPEXV0.waddell.com> <4A1EF742.7030606@otenet.gr> <4A2041ED.4010003@telenix.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Manolis Kiagias , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Gary Gatten Subject: Re: What is this forum for? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 19:35:00 -0000 Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> Hey folks, all of you, could I please sugggest that this entire thread >> (under a >> variety of subject names) is an abuse of the lists? > > Generally i do agree with you. But - in my opinion there are lots of > other abuses. Whenever i pointed this out i got tons of protests from > others. > > So please - who should decide what's on and whats off topic? Wojciech, you want to respect POLA: the principle of least astonishment. It's not often applied to things like mailing lists, but folks exepct to see tech support on FreeBSD-Questions, and things like FreeBSD-boosterisms and flamewars on FreeBSD-chat, where they really are within the list rules. Expecting any possible solution to work 100% of the time (especially anything dealing with humans) is a very unfair tactic in trying to justify any view. What you want to look for is a solution that causes the least problems, and respecting the list rules does that. It won't fix all problems, but it does keep the noise level on our lists to a minimum, and maximizes the amount of help that can be passed on our lists. So, don't use the fact that you can point out single failures as a justification to enable people to act like list juveniles. I can' be the only person who likes the FreeBSD lists because they have such a far lower noise level than any Linux list, and we really do want to keep things that way. Respecting POLA is a fine way to go after that goal. I replied to this on FreeBSD-chat. Would really be appreciated if you could leave it there, and if anyone then complains, I'll help you myself in keeping the topic up, because it's a reasonable, allowed thing on FreeBSD-chat. > > For me - if talks about programs just because it runs under FreeBSD is > OK, then everything is OK. About politics, sport, choosing printservers. > > Why telling someone that want to "switch" from windows to FreeBSD that > better stay with windows is wrong? It's my opinion and my way to help > him/her to save time. And it's proved, over hundred people i know that > ever tried to "switch" to linux or FreeBSD, got back to windows within > short time. > > Of course - switching the way of using computer from windows-style to > unix-style is another thing, is very welcome and is likely to succeed. > > The argument "it's nothing wrong to help others" is a nonsense too. Yes > - help, but about FreeBSD, or on other list, or on priv. > > Or maybe democratic method - when more and louder shouts it's right - > it's right?! > > Doesn't you see a nonsense?! > > Once again - please DO MODERATED list, with clearly defined rules what's > right and what's not. Whatever the rules will be (approved/defined by > FreeBSD owners) - it will be OK. > > About stats i had to do - i AM working on this, but i was not aware how > much work it needs. I'm reading mails from february each year, and now > "processed" four years only. > > So sorry for not doing it for today morning, but i wasn't aware it's too > short time. > > > Another question - some of you said that "outdated" hardware is welcome > too as gifts for FreeBSD team. > > I actually have lots of them, and NON-typical things, that would be > useful. I prepared a list, and can make photos. > > I already sent a mail to one developer but got no response. Maybe he is > just busy or absent, anyway what's the best address for this.