From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 8 10:54:18 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32293106567A; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 10:54:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from MH@kernel32.de) Received: from crivens.kernel32.de (crivens.asm68k.org [81.169.171.191]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A315F8FC1C; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 10:54:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from thor.mobile.rz (unknown [194.50.70.51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by crivens.kernel32.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 85515B03E4; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 12:54:14 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4C35AE56.1040306@kernel32.de> Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 12:54:14 +0200 From: Marian Hettwer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; de; rv:1.9.2.4) Gecko/20100608 Thunderbird/3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Mikhail T." References: <4C34C5DE.7040007@aldan.algebra.com> <20100707185928.GA16180@icarus.home.lan> <4C34E0E6.9070801@aldan.algebra.com> <4C34E910.5020007@aldan.algebra.com> In-Reply-To: <4C34E910.5020007@aldan.algebra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: tom@hur.st, Jeremy Chadwick , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-usb@freebsd.org, Randi Harper Subject: Re: 8.x grudges X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 10:54:18 -0000 Am 07.07.10 22:52, schrieb Mikhail T.: > 07.07.2010 16:34, Randi Harper ???????(??): >> >>> Attached is the kernel config-file (i386), that worked fine under >>> 7.x. The >>> kernel-compile will break (some *freebsd7* structs undefined), >>> without the >>> COMPAT_FREEBSD7 option. Try it for yourself... >> Don't use a kernel config from 7. We've already told you this. > Your "telling" me this is just as valid as warning me against using > computer-cases of a particular color. It is a silly requirement. My > expecting things, that worked for 7, to work in 8 is reasonable. There > may be (documented!) exceptions, but it ought to "just work". No. Your expectation is plain wrong. The opposite should be true. If you do a major upgrade (and moving from 7.x to 8 is a major upgrade) you should expect all kinds of changes. What you can expect is, that they're documented in the release notes. This would be a fine gesture of the FreeBSD community. And since I use FreeBSD since 4.0, I can tell, that the documentation of changes is remarkable. If you expect that things continue to work after a major upgrade you really live in some kind of a dreamworld... >> These changes aren't gratuitous. Did you read the commit messages >> behind each of the changes? I'm guessing that you haven't. > No, and I'm not going to. A commercial OS would've been the laughing > stock, if one hand to change C: to 1: between releases, for example... Ah! But changing the $HOME of users of that commercial OS from c:\Documents and Settings\ to c:\Users is okay, right? Wake up man! >>> >>> Again: this particular change seems gratuitous. >> It's not. You didn't bother researching before complaining. > I bothered to type up my list. Presumably, problem-reports are > welcome. I've been a Unix-user since 1990, a FreeBSD user since 1993 > (or 94?), and a project-member for a decade. If *I* have a problem, > then newer users certainly will too. And, guess what, they'll simply > go with something, that does not give as much grief... Then they should do. pfff... I'd like to see them using Linux, which obviously never changes arbitrary... ha. And if you're a unix user since the 1990'ies then you really should know better. >> The modification should be necessary. > Why? Why should a netboot act differently from a local boot from CD? Because it's a completely different type of booting? Oh come one... > You don't. But there is very little, that needs to be added there for > it to "just work" over both netboot and local CD, and you should do > it, instead of arguing with me here... No, I don't know, what it is > exactly, but I'm quite certain, it can't be very much. If it's that important to you, then send in a patch. As a FreeBSD user since 1993 (or 94) you could do your beloved OS a favor, right? >> In fact, the article about PXE booting on the official freebsd >> website says >> nothing about using the ISO. You just found some article that said it >> was possible (and it is) and complained because you didn't like the >> process? > Yes, exactly. I didn't like process -- it is needlessly complicated. > The same CD-image, /should/ also be usable "out of the box" for > netbooting. Then make it work, for f*cks sake! > >> > From the man page: >> >> The amdtemp driver provides support for the on-die digital >> thermal sensor >> present in AMD K8, K10 and K11 processors. > I know nothing about the driver. But a utility I regularly used > stopped working after upgrade, so I added that to my list of > upgrade-related grudges. > As an old fashioned unix guru you should know lots and lots about the driver. Or at least, as a minimum, you should be aware of the available manpage for a utility you're using regularly! Cheers! ./Marian