From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Feb 24 04:36:49 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90C12FD0 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 04:36:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mailout.easymail.ca (mailout.easymail.ca [64.68.201.169]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 304127E5 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 2015 04:36:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout.easymail.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11D17E480; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 23:36:46 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mailout.easymail.ca X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.871 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.871 required=5 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1.8, AWL=-0.164, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL=0.692] Received: from mailout.easymail.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (easymail-mailout.easydns.vpn [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05McCMVgZfHK; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 23:36:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from bsddt1241.lv01.astrodoggroup.com (unknown [40.141.24.126]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailout.easymail.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8C333E47F; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 23:36:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <54EBFFDC.4090905@astrodoggroup.com> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 20:36:44 -0800 From: Harrison Grundy User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Konstantin Belousov Subject: Re: locks and kernel randomness... References: <20150224012026.GY46794@funkthat.com> <20150224015721.GT74514@kib.kiev.ua> <54EBDC1C.3060007@astrodoggroup.com> <20150224024250.GV74514@kib.kiev.ua> In-Reply-To: <20150224024250.GV74514@kib.kiev.ua> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 04:36:49 -0000 On 02/23/15 18:42, Konstantin Belousov wrote: > On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 06:04:12PM -0800, Harrison Grundy wrote: >> >> >> On 02/23/15 17:57, Konstantin Belousov wrote: >>> On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 05:20:26PM -0800, John-Mark Gurney wrote: >>>> I'm working on simplifying kernel randomness interfaces. I would >>>> like to get read of all weak random generators, and this means >>>> replacing read_random and random(9) w/ effectively arc4rand(9) >>>> (to be replaced by ChaCha or Keccak in the future). >>>> >>>> The issue is that random(9) is called from any number of >>>> contexts, such as the scheduler. This makes locking a bit more >>>> interesting. Currently, both arc4rand(9) and yarrow/fortuna use >>>> a default mtx lock to protect their state. This obviously isn't >>>> compatible w/ the scheduler, and possibly other calling >>>> contexts. >>>> >>>> I have a patch[1] that unifies the random interface. It converts >>>> a few of the locks from mtx default to mtx spin to deal w/ this. >>> This is definitely an overkill. The rebalancing minor use of >>> randomness absolutely does not require cryptographical-strenght >>> randomness to select a moment to rebalance thread queue. Imposing >>> the spin lock on the whole random machinery just to allow the same >>> random gathering code to be used for balance_ticks is detriment to >>> the system responsivness. Scheduler is fine even with congruential >>> generators, as you could see in the cpu_search(), look for the >>> '69069'. >>> >>> Please do not enforce yet another spinlock for the system. >>> _______________________________________________ >> >> The patch attached to >> https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=197922 switches >> sched_balance to use get_cyclecount, which is also a suitable source >> of entropy for this purpose. >> >> It would also be possible to make the scheduler deterministic here, >> using cpuid or some such thing to make sure all CPUs don't fire the >> balancer at the same time. >> > > The patch in the PR is probably in the right direction, but might be too > simple, unless somebody dispel my fallacy. I remember seeing claims that > on the very low-end embedded devices the get_cyclecount() method may > be non-functional, i.e. returning some constant, probably 0. I somehow > associate MIPS arch with this bias. > Talking to some of the arm and MIPS developers, it appears get_cyclecount() may be slow on some older ARM hardware... (In particular, hardware that doesn't support SMP anyway.) However, after a quick test on some machines here, I don't think this function actually needs randomness, due to the large number of other pathways ULE uses to balance load. New patch attached to the PR that simply removes the randomness entirely.