From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 28 01:07:22 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5D822CD3B6 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 01:07:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-x134.google.com (mail-il1-x134.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::134]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49B3Qd43xgz41X9 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 01:07:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-x134.google.com with SMTP id s10so18652603iln.11 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:07:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; 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Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:07:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5058973.kMyvyFPq5o@amos> <20200423085443.18f00e9649e8c71867505550@sohara.org> <20200423113134.GB93186@trajan.stk.cx> In-Reply-To: From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 21:07:08 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Wayland on FreeBSD To: Daniel Feenberg Cc: Arne Steinkamm , Ihor Antonov , "Steve O'Hara-Smith" , FreeBSD Mailing List X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49B3Qd43xgz41X9 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=sfexSCRs; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::134 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.00 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; HAS_WP_URI(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (-8.91), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-0.33), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[4.3.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 01:07:22 -0000 On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 8:24 AM Daniel Feenberg wrote: > > > On Thu, 23 Apr 2020, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > > > > > Looking around almost every major linux dist discourages NFS in favor of > > almost anything else for example here is SUSE's official manual on > network > > storage (never even mentions NFS directly as a primary option, only how > to > > manage the ACL's if your on a legacy NFS system): > > > https://documentation.suse.com/sles/12-SP4/single-html/SLES-storage/#part-net-storage > > > Perhaps we have been in a rut with our petabyte of data entirely accessed > over NFSv3, but looking at that web page I wonder if there isn't something > obsolete about it - after all, the majority of the hardware mentioned in > section 17.2 as being supported is IBM and SUN, and very little would be > available for purchase today. I know it has an April 2020 data at the top, > but still, it doesn't reflect our experience with Linux. All of our Linux > systems have excellent support for NFS, and have for 30 years or more. > > I wonder if the documentation is perhaps greatly removed from actual > practice. It is about remote block storage, NFS is about remote file > storage. > The jury seems to still out (at best) on the question of block vs. file. I suspect the main issue are you NAS (file storage) or SAN (block storage): https://blog.storagecraft.com/object-storage-systems/ https://www.linode.com/docs/platform/block-storage/block-storage-use-cases/ https://www.raidinc.com/2019/12/file-block-and-object-level-storage-which-solution-is-best-for-your-organization/ https://www.hyperconverged.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/why-you-need-block-storage-in-a-hyperconverged-world.pdf If anything people seem to be recommending object over block and block over file.... one comment if iSCSI is such clusterF then object storage is even worse since it abstracts the physical location away where is block at least preserves that. > All our storage is FreeBSD, Freenas or Truenas. All our compute servers > are Linux. > > Daniel Feenberg > -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org