From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 16 14:32:08 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4076133BBDB for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 14:32:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd2f.google.com (mail-io1-xd2f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49mVyb1rjWz45Sl for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 14:32:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd2f.google.com with SMTP id m81so22104915ioa.1 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 07:32:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=9HcjETB4m1XbThzV0uBqa0PZ+SPzXBk3HuAaPnTDhc4=; b=k1xRTqAGi+PicapQYvTS7I1mpC7IvAQcFjJmA7ZFIey8rFAEUtEXfc17CPupXZWuBn 277/Kb1Qc9f4fWY3GVB05WQvOggI4cLywl4vXsyrRaqTa/mO3sNFXwmRj3NXJVIOrzXO o+8UOtD3o+M71BRLMsLFzHu0wBwWBpBcZjji5VrNER97xE9ZoCx2uxi5umiuBByCtbCR CqXbzIScFwBxHnStYVoxDikmjQh68y/9YKefZJzUEPiLk+TE8dwotHqSDkiqBhxTPB3V TVn3g64Ou5MjJi4KQNagsTQ8vUkbRyWAUlY/Qdj8GeVS2LtZLvsfsta5gOYZoUadPuH3 dvQQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=9HcjETB4m1XbThzV0uBqa0PZ+SPzXBk3HuAaPnTDhc4=; b=biJtqtXJV7t1E4J455HBDmirvLP2lJdV59OVo/VOL96/5bjMJI89Ozlz3bMRR/BWl8 Cber90yWO04mnLC/yGNNgvzfoC0SaZv6XwFDyns4ra43eHvRHlrli+U4BCZhIKGnltzc oKyrkoUbqRbKR19OdQb3qKmyZ3lJ32i8DAtH4ID7VL67uyNzz06CMAWcFrZbkFYO+2zz yyRJNOKf4wU+4Z6lJnoHenARcBS6kAwKCJL2h/VwQW8i+G/GZOWVmXFoXBAeoFT5D3pE L1dW9LzKA7uXO5sNY9W4PYSsAyaXmvCNSrDg8gN/d+6pQBc01D817VzwrKduEplq3KED qotQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530B8xNCzl+l1rAc6nEjNR0lkoHdwwk+8b5sMxkbDW/1qa0dPNaK 26wV7DlPCmgWDHNVuP6XoJMVMoNe7TslYqI0wWQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxlWhW2R2SEzjBw8DdG1uEkV45ERjzgLRACXjSy82qhZyDZ2jnP3/jrxRKslekyQ5UEnJiAGm6wfdsIxCzlCh4= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6602:1243:: with SMTP id o3mr2889105iou.89.1592317926070; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 07:32:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200613154409.GA89618@neutralgood.org> <13115.1592302784@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <20200616071153.00006f4d@seibercom.net> <20200616075548.000066f1@seibercom.net> <20200616140416.bd7b8bf2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200616142043.7d599458.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200616144141.6203d978e9bd43418b17dcbc@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 10:31:54 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Mailing List Etiquette was freebsd vs. netbsd To: Chris Knipe Cc: "Steve O'Hara-Smith" , Polytropon , FreeBSD - X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49mVyb1rjWz45Sl X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=k1xRTqAG; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2f as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.03 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.04)[-1.044]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.990]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.00)[0.005]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2f:from]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 14:32:08 -0000 On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 10:22 AM Chris Knipe wrote: > > > On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 4:06 PM Aryeh Friedman > wrote: > >> Simple - don't email it. If you do, attach it as an attachment (MIME is >>> there for a reason)... >>> >>> There's GIT / CVS / Take your pick for a reason... :-) >>> >> >> If you don't like email then you should not be using FreeBSD because for >> better or worse the community has standardized on email as the primary tech >> support venue and thus absolutely needs to have something that can be used >> to give tech support (including 100% accurate cut and pasting). >> > > And again - there's absolutely -nothing- wrong with that at all, I never > said that there was... Millions of companies provide support to millions of > users every day using email... That being said, I get a 80 character plain > text email from a company as "support," I deem that as unprofessional, and > the email will more than likely just be deleted. We live in modern times, > unfortunately. Presentation matters, whether you like it or not. > > Cut & paste from the attachment, then you won't have any formatting issues > from any MUAs, but I guess it's too much effort to open the attachment. > There's plenty of solutions (UUEncode/BASE64, as you so nicely put it, has > also been trialed and tested over many, many years, just FYI - it also has > the benefit of < 80 characters wide), 80x25 is not one of them, and whether > you like it or not, you will -never- get the world to adhere to a 80 (or 74 > or whatever) character wide email. The world has moved on, deal with it. > Extra and unneeded steps for a properly behaving MUA and but from your point of view this is the very behavior that is *BAD*. > > The fact is, you should be committing your code to a repository, and > checking said code out of said repository when you need it. In an open > source environment, said code is also publicly viewable using any half > decent web browser (I guess GITHUB is also doing it wrong?) No, code > should not be shared via email - and if you do then so be it - your choice, > not a requirement. You don't need to email the code, all you can do is > email a URL to your commit / diff... Again, too much effort to open a URL > right? I forgot that in the old days without GUIs, we couldn't even double > click. I guess you still can't today. > You missed the point completely then. People don't share production/committed code via email they share snippets when asking for debugging help and those are the ones that need to be 100% accurate cut and pasted because some applications/languages care a great deal about whitespace (like python). > Again, it's the minority that is sharing code via email... In fact, I > would say very, very, very little people do it. > If that is what you think you sure have not been on this list (or any other FreeBSD mailing list) for any significant amount of time (people do it everyday here). -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org